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Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 11:15 AM
According the Marshall Faulk, Matt Schaub, not Teddy Bridgewater, or anyone else give the Texans the best chance to win in 2014. I know this is a loaded question with some of you, but, agree or disagree and why?

Faulk, one of the most vocal Schaub bashers over the last few seasons, my jaw was agape when I watched the video below.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/Faulk-Schaub-gives-best-chance/f78701a1-c544-44f9-b823-9a836bd68240

Playoffs
01-28-2014, 11:16 AM
According the Marshall Faulk...

I'm only interested in "According to Bill O'Brien..."

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 11:19 AM
I'm only interested in "According to Bill O'Brien..."

So for you if O'Brien says Schaub is the guy that gives the Texans the best chance to win 2014, you are ok with that?

stingray
01-28-2014, 11:20 AM
Go home Marshall, you're drunk!!

Playoffs
01-28-2014, 11:24 AM
So for you if O'Brien says Schaub is the guy that gives the Texans the best chance to win 2014, you are ok with that?

Yep.

OB knows more about these things than I do. http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/f/football-3861.gif

DX-TEX
01-28-2014, 11:25 AM
http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Annoying_no_gif.gif
http://gifs.gifbin.com/2yu3sw37748.gif
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/no%20no%20no/grand/mma_no_gif.gif#NO%21%20GIF%20312x176
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/4/4e/No-no-no-HELL-NO!.gif#Hell%20NO%20GIF

kiwitexansfan
01-28-2014, 11:32 AM
I'm open to it.

My level of concern over his foot injury is increasing though.

Thorn
01-28-2014, 11:34 AM
I'm only interested in "According to Bill O'Brien..."

This.

The Pencil Neck
01-28-2014, 11:34 AM
It's like I've been saying, historically with rookie QBs, you lose while they develop.

The odds of us having a winning season with a rookie QB are slim.

So.

If we want to win now, it means that either:
1) OB is able to "fix" whatever's wrong with Schaub
2) OB is able to develop either Keenum or Yates
3) OB is able to get the rookie QB going extremely quick... which we've seen done a few times recently

In terms of probability, fixing Schaub is probably the best strategy for early wins.

I just don't see that happening.

Mr teX
01-28-2014, 11:55 AM
ehh.... we just need to part ways with Schaub..even if it's only to free up the cap space. I'd be fine with letting Yates or Keenum get the early starts while we continue to rebuild...we can't be that much worse than we were this past year so it goes without saying we'll still be seeing some measure of improvement with either of the 2 at the helm.

brakos82
01-28-2014, 11:58 AM
http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Annoying_no_gif.gif
http://gifs.gifbin.com/2yu3sw37748.gif
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/no%20no%20no/grand/mma_no_gif.gif#NO%21%20GIF%20312x176
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/4/4e/No-no-no-HELL-NO!.gif#Hell%20NO%20GIF
http://i.imgur.com/m2QpOXk.gif

Texn4life
01-28-2014, 12:00 PM
Marshall gets the best of weed in Cali!

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 12:06 PM
ehh.... we just need to part ways with Schaub..even if it's only to free up the cap space.

If the question is winning, I don't know how OB can answer the question until camp. But from a business stand point I don't see how Schaub can enter camp with a $14M cap number, especially with the season he had last year.

Of course, if we're talking about designating him a June 1st cut, we're not in any hurry to cut him until before the season starts.

But looking at the FA QBs out there; Freeman, Vick, McCown, McCoy..... Schaub's the most successful of the bunch.

kingtexan
01-28-2014, 12:12 PM
Matt Schaub will never wear a Texan uniform again.

deucetx
01-28-2014, 12:15 PM
If the question is winning, I don't know how OB can answer the question until camp. But from a business stand point I don't see how Schaub can enter camp with a $14M cap number, especially with the season he had last year.

Of course, if we're talking about designating him a June 1st cut, we're not in any hurry to cut him until before the season starts.

But looking at the FA QBs out there; Freeman, Vick, McCown, McCoy..... Schaub's the most successful of the bunch.

Basically how I view it. Just too significant of a salary hit to justify a placeholder at the position. Looking at the past salaries of the free agents on the market he would have to take a significant cut to stay with the team when it comes down to the business side of things. I don't think Schaub is as bad as last season and would be an ok guy to have while developing a rookie but not at the cost he presently stands.

Ben Frank
01-28-2014, 12:17 PM
I'd rather give Josh McCown a 2 year contract and draft Teddy B, then keep Schaub..

IDEXAN
01-28-2014, 12:18 PM
I dunno, maybe Faulk knows what he's talking about, after all sometimes guys lose their stuff then mysteriously rediscover it. Ever hear of Brad Lidge ?

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 12:19 PM
Basically how I view it. Just too significant of a salary hit to justify a placeholder at the position. Looking at the past salaries of the free agents on the market he would have to take a significant cut to stay with the team when it comes down to the business side of things. I don't think Schaub is as bad as last season and would be an ok guy to have while developing a rookie but not at the cost he presently stands.

I think taking a pay cut goes without saying. I think Schaub is realistic enough to accept that if given a chance to stay on for one more year. After the way he was pushed aside, he may not want to stay anyway.

Despite what some think on this board, Schaub is far and away the best QB on the Texans as of now.

b0ng
01-28-2014, 12:20 PM
Eh, I don't know about best chance to win, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea that the team absolutely must part ways with Schaub and that there are no other options or recourse for him. I do believe that the Texans should not be the highest bidder for Schaub on an open market, but if there are ways to re-work his contract to decrease his cap hit and he's willing to do that then I don't understand why he would have to leave the team if that were the case.

I honestly don't think we should really have it in mind that the Texans are going to compete next year, no matter how many pieces come out in the offseason trying to link the Chiefs resurgence in 2013 with a possible Texans resurgence in 2014. Stuff that talks about what gives the Texans the best chance to win games are already trying to paint a similar picture and I do believe that righting the ship defensively (or a hot rookie QB) could give us just as good of a chance to win games in 2014.

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 12:27 PM
I dunno, maybe Faulk knows what he's talking about, after all sometimes guys lose their stuff then mysteriously rediscover it. Ever hear of Brad Lidge ?

The thought that any of us armchair GM's think we know better than someone like Marshall Faulk is laughable anyway. Schaub had a bad year. It happens.

_King_
01-28-2014, 12:34 PM
I don't think Schaub will be back and I dont want him back either. I have 0 faith in him and I don't see the benefit of having him on the roster. There is no upside. Schaub should be flaccos back up in Maryland.

JCTexan
01-28-2014, 12:35 PM
The thought that any of us armchair GM's think we know better than someone like Marshall Faulk is laughable anyway. Schaub had a bad year. It happens.

Think about it: Faulk wasn't a Schaub fan last year after the Texans went to the playoffs. He didn't think Schaub could take Houston to the next level, so I imagine Faulk's "win now" speech probably has the Texans out in the Wild Card round at most.

kingtexan
01-28-2014, 12:38 PM
I don't think Schaub will be back and I dont want him back either. I have 0 faith in him and I don't see the benefit of having him on the roster. There is no upside. Schaub should be flaccos back up in Maryland.

Doubtful even Gary would give Matt another chance.

He will end up in Cleveland, or Jacksonville, or maybe Oakland.

Some desperate team will give him one more chance and he will be benched by mid-season and that will be the end. Hopeful;ly he managed the money he stole form the Texans and doesn't have to work again ...

Seegara
01-28-2014, 12:43 PM
Is Marshall Faulk crazy, or merely insane?

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 12:48 PM
I don't think Schaub will be back and I dont want him back either. I have 0 faith in him and I don't see the benefit of having him on the roster. There is no upside. Schaub should be flaccos back up in Maryland.

Then you are blinded by your emotions

Think about it: Faulk wasn't a Schaub fan last year after the Texans went to the playoffs. He didn't think Schaub could take Houston to the next level, so I imagine Faulk's "win now" speech probably has the Texans out in the Wild Card round at most.

Man that would be a far cry better than 2-14. You really think O'Brien is going to do better than that with a rookie QB?

Doubtful even Gary would give Matt another chance.

He will end up in Cleveland, or Jacksonville, or maybe Oakland.

Some desperate team will give him one more chance and he will be benched by mid-season and that will be the end. Hopeful;ly he managed the money he stole form the Texans and doesn't have to work again ...

Just more Schaub hate. He never stole any money and you forget all too quickly what Schaub did for the Texans while he was here, but you keep on hatin' just for the sake of hatin'. Weren't you one of the posters who said Kubiak was finished in the NFL too?

kingtexan
01-28-2014, 12:50 PM
Then you are blinded by your emotions



Man that would be a far cry better than 2-14. You really think O'Brien is going to do better than that with a rookie QB?



Just more Schaub hate. He never stole any money and you forget all too quickly what Schaub did for the Texans while he was here, but you keep on hatin' just for the sake of hatin'. Weren't you one of the posters who said Kubiak was finished in the NFL too?

Make sure Matt gives you a napkin to clean up when you are done ...

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 12:52 PM
Make sure Matt gives you a napkin to clean up when you are done ...

Yea wow... how clever. And here I thought you had graduated jr. high school already.

_King_
01-28-2014, 12:57 PM
Then you are blinded by your emotions


Maybe you are blinded by your emotions?

texan_joe
01-28-2014, 12:59 PM
Then you are blinded by your emotions



Man that would be a far cry better than 2-14. You really think O'Brien is going to do better than that with a rookie QB?



Just more Schaub hate. He never stole any money and you forget all too quickly what Schaub did for the Texans while he was here, but you keep on hatin' just for the sake of hatin'. Weren't you one of the posters who said Kubiak was finished in the NFL too?

I'm with you on this. Schaub was never as bad as people around here try and make him out to be. He had a bad year. He is still the best QB on the roster. I know that's not saying much but he is far better than either Keenum or Yates. But that being said, he needs a fresh start. Let Schaub walk and draft Teddy Bridgewater. He will give you a bettet chance to win next year than either Keenum or Yates.

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 01:00 PM
Maybe you are blinded by your emotions?

Perhaps, but I am not the one frothing at the mouth when the topic of Matt Schaub comes up. Many posters and Texans fans alike have turned Schaub bashing into a sport. Who can come up with the lamest joke of them all.

Keep in mind we are talking about a HOF player who had these things to say, not some blogger, or NFL.com wanna be.

HoustonFrog
01-28-2014, 01:05 PM
The whole team was bad last year. I thought Keenum showed just as much as Schaub in the losses he was in. I mean they all lost. OB is known to work well with QBs. You take last year's development, get some more coaching and off season work and then you evaluate against Schaub or the rookie Qb or whomever. But I don't think Schaub automatically gets the nod. Based on what criteria?

infantrycak
01-28-2014, 01:06 PM
Perhaps, but I am not the one frothing at the mouth when the topic of Matt Schaub comes up.

Not everyone who wanted Kubiak or Schaub gone is frothing at the mouth. Some yes, but not all.

A lot of stupid statements and overreactions are made during a 2-14 season.

_King_
01-28-2014, 01:07 PM
Perhaps, but I am not the one frothing at the mouth when the topic of Matt Schaub comes up. Many posters and Texans fans alike have turned Schaub bashing into a sport. Who can come up with the lamest joke of them all.

Keep in mind we are talking about a HOF player who had these things to say, not some blogger, or NFL.com wanna be.

I heard Faulk say this a while ago. This is fairly old. Felt no need to start a thread on it because I didn't care. I don't think highly of Schaub and that has 0 to do with emotions.

And should I put more stock in what Marshall Faulk says than a guy that was an actual teammate of Schaub's?

Derrick ward wasn't a hall of famer...but he was pretty good. He said the texans won't win anything with Schaub at qb.

Truth is, I know enough about the sport to form my own opinion and not take what others say as gospel. I'll listen, doesn't mean I have to agree.

I disagree with Faulk. No I'm no a hall of game football player so take it with a grain of salt.

matts290
01-28-2014, 01:09 PM
Maybe he does give us the best chance for an above .500 record to next season, but he is in no way part of the long term plans and I think O'Brien has proven with his gutting of the staff that this team is starting fresh. Just imagine that first interception Schaub throws next season, how ugly it could all turn out if the fans turn on BOB real quick.

Playoffs
01-28-2014, 01:09 PM
...My level of concern over his foot injury is increasing though.And this is the problem. Dr. CND has posted many times the condition is degenerative -- getting steadily worse.

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 01:11 PM
The whole team was bad last year. I thought Keenum showed just as much as Schaub in the losses he was in. I mean they all lost. OB is know to work well with QBs. You take last year's development, get some more coaching and off season work and then you evaluate against Schaub or the rookie Qb or whomever. But I don't think Schaub automatically gets the nod. Based on what criteria?

Never said automatically, but I would put my money on Schaub beating out Keenum any day. You really think Keenum developed last season? Developed some bad habits maybe. Like averaging 10.58 yards lost per sack.

Not everyone who wanted Kubiak or Schaub gone is frothing at the mouth. Some yes, but not all.

A lot of stupid statements and overreactions are made during a 2-14 season.

I agree with that, but you will agree that most on this board, and most in the FB comments on official posts by the Texans, even when the post had nothing to do with Schaub. Mob mentality towards Schaub, especially in 2013.

2012Champs
01-28-2014, 01:12 PM
I think taking a pay cut goes without saying. I think Schaub is realistic enough to accept that if given a chance to stay on for one more year. After the way he was pushed aside, he may not want to stay anyway.

Despite what some think on this board, Schaub is far and away the best QB on the Texans as of now.




To roll down this road what wouls Schaub's pay have to be and cap hit for this year to where people would consider keeping him?

kingtexan
01-28-2014, 01:14 PM
Mob mentality towards Schaub, especially in 2013.

Laurie, is that you? :peek:

TheIronDuke
01-28-2014, 01:21 PM
Just a media guy saying stupid crap to get people to talk about him. Doubt Marshall Faulk has watched more Texans football than most anyone who posts here. Probably looked at a stats sheet and decided that he just had a bad season and it was fixable. I don't understand why anyone would want to keep Schaub after the way he's played since week 12 of 2012, he's been complete crap. I trust O'Brien will agree with those of us who want Schaub gone too.

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 01:33 PM
I'd rather give Josh McCown a 2 year contract and draft Teddy B, then keep Schaub..

How much do you think it will take to sign McCown for 2 years?

How much success do you think the Texans will have with McCown over the next two years?

Keep in mind, we're $3M under the cap now. We'll need $5M for our rookies & reserve fund. Cutting Schaub will only add $4M.

Blake
01-28-2014, 01:36 PM
Schaub put me in a bad place last season. If we don't take a top QB, then I am OK with working out a deal that can work for both Matt and the Texans for 2014.

Faulk doesnt know how Matt is going to respond after what happened last season anymore than he knows the winning lotto numbers.

So the question is, who wants to play Schrodingers Cat with Schaub?

HJam72
01-28-2014, 02:01 PM
I just look at it like Schaub gives us the best chance to go over .500, and the least chance of winning it all, which is what we are supposed to be shooting for. That foot injury is a problem that won't go away, and I think it showed up early this last season.

June 1st cut.

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 02:06 PM
Schaub put me in a bad place last season. If we don't take a top QB, then I am OK with working out a deal that can work for both Matt and the Texans for 2014.


I understand.

We don't look at Matt Schaub like Eli Manning, or Matt Ryan. Even though Schaub's been better than both of them in the regular season for quite some time. Eli is clutch in the play-offs & Ryan is younger (28 vs 32). But both of those guys will unquestionably be brought back to start for their teams, no pay-cut even asked, & they were as bad as Schaub in 2013.

Only difference, they were allowed to play it out & never got "back" on track.


I want Schaub gone, don't get me wrong. It's past time we moved on. I'm just saying.

TheIronDuke
01-28-2014, 02:10 PM
I understand.

We don't look at Matt Schaub like Eli Manning, or Matt Ryan. Even though Schaub's been better than both of them in the regular season for quite some time. Eli is clutch in the play-offs & Ryan is younger (28 vs 32). But both of those guys will unquestionably be brought back to start for their teams, no pay-cut even asked, & they were as bad as Schaub in 2013.

Only difference, they were allowed to play it out & never got "back" on track.


I want Schaub gone, don't get me wrong. It's past time we moved on. I'm just saying.

I know you generally make stuff up as you go along, might want to actually look at Schaub's stats in 2013 and then Matt Ryan's and then edit your post.

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 02:24 PM
I know you generally make stuff up as you go along, might want to actually look at Schaub's stats in 2013 and then Matt Ryan's and then edit your post.

Nope.... looks the same to me. Which stat (since we can use stats now) are you looking at showing Matt Ryan had a much better season than Schaub?

Carr Bombed
01-28-2014, 02:27 PM
I'm with you on this. Schaub was never as bad as people around here try and make him out to be. He had a bad year. He is still the best QB on the roster. I know that's not saying much but he is far better than either Keenum or Yates. But that being said, he needs a fresh start. Let Schaub walk and draft Teddy Bridgewater. He will give you a bettet chance to win next year than either Keenum or Yates.

Calling Matt Schaub the best QB on the current roster (and we don't even know if he's that since the other QBs still have room to improve through more experience and PT.. which Schaub can't say) is like bragging that you're the skinniest kid in fat camp. :vincepalm: At the end of the day, you're still fat.

There will be QBs selected in this draft that will give any NFL team a better chance to win than Matt Schaub. just on potential alone. I really don't understand Nitrofish's infatuation with Schaub. The way he's driven to defend him, it's like he personally knows the guy.

TheIronDuke
01-28-2014, 02:32 PM
Nope.... looks the same to me. Which stat (since we can use stats now) are you looking at showing Matt Ryan had a much better season than Schaub?

OK, I guess I'll google that for you then.

Schaub
Completions: 219
Attempts: 358
Yards: 2310
TD: 10
Int: 14

Ryan
Completions: 438
Attempts: 651
Yards: 4515
TD: 26
Int: 17

HoustonFrog
01-28-2014, 02:37 PM
Never said automatically, but I would put my money on Schaub beating out Keenum any day. You really think Keenum developed last season? Developed some bad habits maybe. Like averaging 10.58 yards lost per sack.


I agree with that, but you will agree that most on this board, and most in the FB comments on official posts by the Texans, even when the post had nothing to do with Schaub. Mob mentality towards Schaub, especially in 2013.

Well what habits did Schaub have...throwing pick 6s to end games? I'll take the sacks. You had a kid who was making his first starts and did some great things. He needs work definitely. Schaub had been around and regressed and showed his limitations. They both can be coached up. But again, what makes Pick 6 guy someone who you'd put your money on vs kid with upside? I think you are wasting your money.

HJam72
01-28-2014, 02:39 PM
They both suck.

Carr Bombed
01-28-2014, 02:45 PM
OK, I guess I'll google that for you then.

Schaub
Completions: 219
Attempts: 358
Yards: 2310
TD: 10
Int: 14

Ryan
Completions: 438
Attempts: 651
Yards: 4515
TD: 26
Int: 17

You forgot to add all the other TD passes Schaub had. :)

infantrycak
01-28-2014, 02:53 PM
Nope.... looks the same to me. Which stat (since we can use stats now) are you looking at showing Matt Ryan had a much better season than Schaub?

Matt Ryan (89.6) is a poor example. Should have gone with Flacco and Eli.

QB rating
Schaub 73.0
Flacco 73.1
Eli 69.4

Eli put Schaub to shame on INT's - 4.9% to 3.9% for Schaub.

Dutchrudder
01-28-2014, 03:08 PM
Coincidentally, Matt Schaub also gives us the best chance to win the #1 pick in 2015.

HouTx11
01-28-2014, 03:13 PM
Since Baltimore seems to be THE magnet with sensitivity set to all things ex-Texans I predict that Schaub will be cut from the Texans and then reunite with Kubiak, Dennison, Leach and Jacoby as a backup to Joe Flacco for the Ravens. Only question is: will it be a #8 purple jersey?

drs23
01-28-2014, 03:57 PM
I'd rather give Josh McCown a 2 year contract and draft Teddy B, then keep Schaub..

Why would you pay McCown for two years, draft TB, then keep Schaub too? Doesn't make sense to me.

Double Barrel
01-28-2014, 03:57 PM
The thought that any of us armchair GM's think we know better than someone like Marshall Faulk is laughable anyway. Schaub had a bad year. It happens.

Marshall Faulk hates the Texans. I would not be surprised if this is some kind of insidious way to sabotage us!! ;)

Honestly, though, Faulk is just a talking head now. For instance, Ted "Three Rings" Johnson is just as qualified as an opinion as Faulk, and he holds the opposite opinion from Faulk. Dude was even predicting Schaub's decline before the 2013 season and people were slamming him for it. But, turns out, he was on the mark.

Point being, I tend to think a lot of these talking heads are paid for opinions, not expertise. I truly think if any of them were experts, they'd be on staff of an NFL team. But instead, they make a nice salary just spouting opinions for our entertainment.

And this is the problem. Dr. CND has posted many times the condition is degenerative -- getting steadily worse.

This is where my perspective comes from, as well. CND warned us about Schaub's condition as degenerative in 2012, and everything he said from a medical perspective braced us for the reality. iirc, I don't think Schaub's injury is one that improves, according to the good doctor, so it is possible that Schaub is not going to be consistently productive as an NFL starter again.

I agree with that, but you will agree that most on this board, and most in the FB comments on official posts by the Texans, even when the post had nothing to do with Schaub. Mob mentality towards Schaub, especially in 2013.

'eh, gotta' be careful with generalizations. Sure, there are those that shoot arrows at every chance, but there are others that try to be objective and pragmatic.

As you know, the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league. Past performances are good for reflection after retirement, but not necessarily a good way to gauge certain aspects of a player.

I would not scream bloody murder if Schaub was kept around, but I do not think it will happen. His health is certainly a concern, but I think 2013 was as much mental as it was physical for Schaub. I have no idea, but would not be surprised if O'Brien does not want to inherit the last regime's mess.

htownfan32
01-28-2014, 04:26 PM
Coincidentally, Matt Schaub also gives us the best chance to win the #1 pick in 2015.

Wimp-out for Winston #2015!

Playoffs
01-28-2014, 04:41 PM
Coincidentally, Matt Schaub also gives us the best chance to win the #1 pick in 2015.

Should've kept the old staff, plan... were on the right track. :kitten:

JB
01-28-2014, 04:53 PM
Should've kept the old staff, plan... were on the right track. :kitten:

Yeah but the train was in reverse, we needed a new conductor

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 05:50 PM
Matt Ryan (89.6) is a poor example. Should have gone with Flacco and Eli.

QB rating
Schaub 73.0
Flacco 73.1
Eli 69.4

Eli put Schaub to shame on INT's - 4.9% to 3.9% for Schaub.

Considering Schaub only started half the games Ryan did.. I still think it's similar. If (& I know it's an if) Matt played the other 8 games, who knows what his numbers would have looked like. As it is, the numbers look similar enough.

The biggest difference is his TD/INT ratio, starting twice as many games could have easily got his ratio back in-line, towards his norm & two more wins.

Besides, not like I said he was worse than Schaub, I said as bad as. I can't imagine any Falcon fan saying, "I'm glad we locked this dude up, $120M well spent."

Double Barrel
01-28-2014, 05:51 PM
Yeah but the train was in reverse, we needed a new conductor

If we just could have pull that ox out of a ditch we would have had a perfect ox conductor. Them oxes love them some conducting.

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 05:51 PM
Coincidentally, Matt Schaub also gives us the best chance to win the #1 pick in 2015.

I think that would be Case.

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 05:56 PM
Point being, I tend to think a lot of these talking heads are paid for opinions, not expertise. I truly think if any of them were experts, they'd be on staff of an NFL team. But instead, they make a nice salary just spouting opinions for our entertainment.

N.D. Kalu said he was offered an opportunity to coach, but turned it down since he wanted to spend more time with his family. He knows coaches put in 14, 16 hour days on the regular & he wanted no part of that.


Marshall Faulk, being a hall of famer & known to be pretty football smart, I'd think he probably made the same decision. However, I agree. He probably doesn't know crap about evaluating QBs.

TheIronDuke
01-28-2014, 06:11 PM
Considering Schaub only started half the games Ryan did.. I still think it's similar. If (& I know it's an if) Matt played the other 8 games, who knows what his numbers would have looked like. As it is, the numbers look similar enough.

The biggest difference is his TD/INT ratio, starting twice as many games could have easily got his ratio back in-line, towards his norm & two more wins.

Besides, not like I said he was worse than Schaub, I said as bad as. I can't imagine any Falcon fan saying, "I'm glad we locked this dude up, $120M well spent."

Well the stats aren't anywhere similar to most people and I guarantee that the Falcons aren't drafting a QB to start anytime soon. You're also forgetting that Schaub sucked in two other games that he didnt start in and not to mention that Ryan played in one of the tougher divisions in the NFL and lost some weapons due to injury.

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 06:31 PM
Well the stats aren't anywhere similar to most people and I guarantee that the Falcons aren't drafting a QB to start anytime soon. You're also forgetting that Schaub sucked in two other games that he didnt start in and not to mention that Ryan played in one of the tougher divisions in the NFL and lost some weapons due to injury.

Cut Ryan's numbers in half & they're pretty similar.

Norg
01-28-2014, 07:05 PM
Matt give us the best chance to be a above .500 team

hedk maybe the draft qb this year gives us the best chance to be .400 team

either way were wont gonna win a lot of games this year

Nawzer
01-28-2014, 07:21 PM
Apparently Marshall Faulk missed all the pick sixes Schaub threw to the other team this season. Schaub is done. He'll never be a starter again in this league and if the Texans bring him back then this team really is run by a bunch of buffoons.

texan_joe
01-28-2014, 07:31 PM
Calling Matt Schaub the best QB on the current roster (and we don't even know if he's that since the other QBs still have room to improve through more experience and PT.. which Schaub can't say) is like bragging that you're the skinniest kid in fat camp. :vincepalm: At the end of the day, you're still fat.

There will be QBs selected in this draft that will give any NFL team a better chance to win than Matt Schaub. just on potential alone. I really don't understand Nitrofish's infatuation with Schaub. The way he's driven to defend him, it's like he personally knows the guy.

I understand this. That's why I said let Schaub walk. I do think in the right place that Schaub can get back to his 2012 form, but that's still not good enough. Draft T.B. and we can get back to 8-10 wins next year.

thunderkyss
01-28-2014, 07:56 PM
Apparently Marshall Faulk missed all the pick sixes Schaub threw to the other team this season. Schaub is done. He'll never be a starter again in this league and if the Texans bring him back then this team really is run by a bunch of buffoons.

Who's got the second pick in the draft?

Does Marshall Faulk have any association with that team? Would it benefit that team at all if the Houston Texans were "set" at QB?

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 08:00 PM
I heard Faulk say this a while ago. This is fairly old. Felt no need to start a thread on it because I didn't care. I don't think highly of Schaub and that has 0 to do with emotions.

And should I put more stock in what Marshall Faulk says than a guy that was an actual teammate of Schaub's?

Derrick ward wasn't a hall of famer...but he was pretty good. He said the texans won't win anything with Schaub at qb.

Truth is, I know enough about the sport to form my own opinion and not take what others say as gospel. I'll listen, doesn't mean I have to agree.

I disagree with Faulk. No I'm no a hall of game football player so take it with a grain of salt.

Ummm yeah you should put more stock into what a HOF player says over a disgruntled former teammate like Ward. Where was Ward is 2013 again? Dumb question and shines light on where your head is.

Laurie, is that you? :peek:

More Jr. High School comments?

Just a media guy saying stupid crap to get people to talk about him. Doubt Marshall Faulk has watched more Texans football than most anyone who posts here. Probably looked at a stats sheet and decided that he just had a bad season and it was fixable. I don't understand why anyone would want to keep Schaub after the way he's played since week 12 of 2012, he's been complete crap. I trust O'Brien will agree with those of us who want Schaub gone too.

He is not just a media guy, and he has also been one of the most vocal Schaub haters. So you are saying people who post here are worth listening to, and that Marshall Faulk is a windbag, is that it? You people are hilarious. So if O'Brien does not agree with you and Schab somehow remains on the team what will you say then? O'Brien is crazy and does not know what he is doing? You sure seem to know allot about what Faulk and O'Brien think and do. It must be a terrible burden to be so smart.

Calling Matt Schaub the best QB on the current roster (and we don't even know if he's that since the other QBs still have room to improve through more experience and PT.. which Schaub can't say) is like bragging that you're the skinniest kid in fat camp. :vincepalm: At the end of the day, you're still fat.

There will be QBs selected in this draft that will give any NFL team a better chance to win than Matt Schaub. just on potential alone. I really don't understand Nitrofish's infatuation with Schaub. The way he's driven to defend him, it's like he personally knows the guy.

Typical response from you. Fat Jokes? Really? First of all, perhaps you missed the title of the thread. I did not say that, a HOF player who has been anti-Schaub said it. I love how you all try to destroy Faulk's character and discount what he says just because it does not align with your opinion. It's the same thing you do to anyone on this board who is not a knee jerk, know it all like yourself.

I simply reported what Faulk said. You are turning this into a personal attack because you know Faulk has more football knowledge, and credibility than you do. I don't understand your fascination with trying to run me down and talk as if you are somehow enlightened, and I am some idiot with no clue, but you don't hear me whining about it.

But thank goodness we have experts like you on here pontificating endlessly on how they know best.

Well what habits did Schaub have...throwing pick 6s to end games? I'll take the sacks. You had a kid who was making his first starts and did some great things. He needs work definitely. Schaub had been around and regressed and showed his limitations. They both can be coached up. But again, what makes Pick 6 guy someone who you'd put your money on vs kid with upside? I think you are wasting your money.

Yea he threw pick 6's. It happens. It just so happens that it happened at a record setting pace during those games. It does not mean it would have continued to happen had he been allowed to play through it.

Keenum did great things? When? Where? You must have been watching a different Case Keenum than I was. Upside is a buzzword people use when they have no real world evidence to show regarding their player. Upside, or potential do not win games. Experience does, and Schaub has plenty of it, and before his pick-6-o-thon he was considered by many to be a top tier QB. Just because he had a bad year does not mean he is done, no matter what you message board experts say. Many of you said Kubiak was finished too, a washed up has been that the NFL had passed by.

Apparently Marshall Faulk missed all the pick sixes Schaub threw to the other team this season. Schaub is done. He'll never be a starter again in this league and if the Texans bring him back then this team really is run by a bunch of buffoons.

If we only had more experts like you, the NFL would be so much more fun to watch. How NFL owners have not discovered you yet is beyond me. I guess the world is just not very fair.

burro
01-28-2014, 08:07 PM
Faulk is underestimating the mental aspect of Schaub's bad season...ffs the guy spent half of the season alone on the sideline, staring off into space with his helmet on and had grown a badly neglected hobo beard by week 17.

He needs a fresh start...far away from here and specter of 2013, or he could leave football entirely (I wouldn't blame him for feeling jaded). Either way, I can't think of a worse person to start at QB for the Texans in 2014, in terms of moving beyond the surreal nightmare of this past season, than Matt Schaub.

Nawzer
01-28-2014, 08:37 PM
If we only had more experts like you, the NFL would be so much more fun to watch. How NFL owners have not discovered you yet is beyond me. I guess the world is just not very fair.

Don't worry, I'll be sending in my resume to the Texans if they bring back Schaub. They clearly could use some of my help.

Nitrofish
01-28-2014, 08:41 PM
Don't worry, I'll be sending in my resume to the Texans if they bring back Schaub. They clearly could use some of my help.

Oh yes, clearly they need your help. What was McNair thinking hiring O'Brien when he had you sitting right here. What an idiot McNair is.

Marshall
01-28-2014, 08:43 PM
Go home Marshall, you're drunk!!

I am not!

Oh! you're talking to that other Marshall. Never Mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0

Big Lou
01-28-2014, 09:07 PM
If Matt Schaub gives us the best chance to win in 2014, then that means we have very little chance.

If Schaub is our QB in 2014 we will be drafting number one again.

Carr Bombed
01-28-2014, 09:15 PM
Typical response from you. Fat Jokes? Really? First of all, perhaps you missed the title of the thread. I did not say that, a HOF player who has been anti-Schaub said it. I love how you all try to destroy Faulk's character and discount what he says just because it does not align with your opinion. It's the same thing you do to anyone on this board who is not a knee jerk, know it all like yourself.

I simply reported what Faulk said. You are turning this into a personal attack because you know Faulk has more football knowledge, and credibility than you do. I don't understand your fascination with trying to run me down and talk as if you are somehow enlightened, and I am some idiot with no clue, but you don't hear me whining about it.

But thank goodness we have experts like you on here pontificating endlessly on how they know best..

:mcnugget:..

What are you talking about?

First of all.. I'm sorry my "fat camp" joke/analogy offended you, but I don't subscribe to being PC. If that hurts your feelings, sorry. Grow thicker skin.

Second, why do you think I tried to "destroy Faulk's character and discount what he says".. Please tell me where the hell I even mentioned Faulk's name, much less tried to destroy his character in any post that I have made in this thread or on this board? Please do, I'll be sitting here waiting. But if you want me to talk about him.. I don't doubt he has more football knowledge than I ever will. That still doesn't mean he's right about this topic and that "Schaub gives the Texans the best chance to win in 2014".. Because nobody knows that right now, the freaking draft hasn't even taken place, much less FA

Third, How did I turn this into a "personal attack" when I didn't even quote your post or respond to it, and the only mention I even made about you was mentioning on how you seem emotionally driven in your defense of Matt Schaub. That isn't a "personal attack". It's a simple observation and not one that isn't outlandish by the way you freak out and post some of the crap that you do against anybody who says anything (and I mean anything) critical of Schaub.

You want to accuse people of personnel attacks.. you didn't even finish that sentence without giving one and never once in this thread did I "talk about how I'm enlightened or how you're a idiot with no clue", stop being so sensitive anytime somebody doesn't think Schaub is god or has a difference of opinion with you.

Holy crap.

Nawzer
01-28-2014, 09:25 PM
Oh yes, clearly they need your help. What was McNair thinking hiring O'Brien when he had you sitting right here. What an idiot McNair is.

Nah I got nothing against O'Brien...yet. He seems like a smart fellow (like myself :winky:). The 2013 season or as I like to call it: "How Not to Play Football". A romantic thriller comedy documentary featuring Gary Kubiak and Matt Schaub will show O'Brien that Schaub clearly has forgotten how to play the QB position. His next stop should probably be retirement and enjoy playing golf for the rest of his life. But he'll get another shot at a backup job somewhere, I don't care where as long as it's not here.

_King_
01-28-2014, 10:16 PM
Ummm yeah you should put more stock into what a HOF player says over a disgruntled former teammate like Ward. Where was Ward is 2013 again? Dumb question and shines light on where your head is.


What reason would ward have to be disgruntled with Schaub? Sounds like you're making up a narrative. Glad dbarrell brought up Ted johnson, I'd forgotten about him and Seth Payne and nd kalu and Greg koch.

Yes someone definitely has there head somewhere.

I see you have some kind of weirdness going on with Schaub and this isn't a real conversation so I'll just leave this one right here.

Carr Bombed
01-28-2014, 10:37 PM
What reason would ward have to be disgruntled with Schaub? Sounds like you're making up a narrative. Glad dbarrell brought up Ted johnson, I'd forgotten about him and Seth Payne and nd kalu and Greg koch.

Yes someone definitely has there head somewhere.

I see you have some kind of weirdness going on with Schaub and this isn't a real conversation so I'll just leave this one right here.

Ward is obviously disgruntled because he isn't a HOFer and doesn't have a cable TV position so he doesn't know as much as Faulk, having a HOF ring and talking on T.V. gives you more insight over actually being a guy's teammate and knowing him personally. :rolleyes:

Jaytrajik
01-28-2014, 11:41 PM
I'd be okay with trading the 1st pick for a king's ransom and playing Schaub sans Kubiak's micro management for one year. A lot of those costly interceptions came at the expense of running Kubiak's lame pre-scripted system. I'd like to see how Schaub would do if given free reign to run the offense.

Sent from my Verizon Galaxy Note 3

Hervoyel
01-28-2014, 11:42 PM
Coincidentally, Matt Schaub also gives us the best chance to win the #1 pick in 2015.

It's like a win-win situation without any actual winning taking place.

It would be pretty darn amazing to see that kind of epic asshattery take place. I can't deny it.

TexansSeminole
01-28-2014, 11:46 PM
How can a statement like this be made when we haven't even hit free agency or the draft yet?

Carr Bombed
01-28-2014, 11:59 PM
I'd be okay with trading the 1st pick for a king's ransom and playing Schaub sans Kubiak's micro management for one year. A lot of those costly interceptions came at the expense of running Kubiak's lame pre-scripted system. I'd like to see how Schaub would do if given free reign to run the offense.

Sent from my Verizon Galaxy Note 3

Schaub's lack of athleticism restricted him more in this offense than Kubiak's play calling ever did. Granted he should of been allowed to check out of more plays, but Schaub will always be limited in any offense he runs.

Lucky
01-29-2014, 01:08 AM
Schaub had a bad year. It happens.
It happens when you're done as a player. As Schaub is.

Then you are blinded by your emotions


:potkettle:

Perhaps, but I am not the one frothing at the mouth when the topic of Matt Schaub comes up.
Didn't you bring the subject up? No one other than yourself thinks Schaub returning is even a remote possibility.

Matt Schaub will never wear a Texan uniform again.

The End.

Hookem Horns
01-29-2014, 01:16 AM
Sounds to me that Marshall Faulk doesn't think the Texans have much of a chance to win much in 2014 with that statement.

Personally I think he's wrong. Good rookies QBs can win immediately in the league now. A solid rookie will be a big upgrade over Schaub.

Schaub is done here. I think his teammates are done with him and the fans have been done with him for a while now.

It will be best for both parties for him to move on. Maybe with a change of scenery Schaub can still do some good things for a team, however that's not going to be in Houston.

htownfan32
01-29-2014, 01:49 AM
Question. If our rookie QB (assuming we draft one in the first round) gives us at least Ryan Tannehill production (keep in mind Tannehill has an absolutely **** offensive line, 11th most sacked QB of all time in 2013) his first two seasons, would that be considered success or failure? I'm using Tannehill as a baseline because out of the three QBs drafted in the top ten of 2012 Draft's Luck class of QBs, he has been the least successful.

Nitrofish
01-29-2014, 03:44 AM
:mcnugget:..

What are you talking about?

First of all.. I'm sorry my "fat camp" joke/analogy offended you, but I don't subscribe to being PC. If that hurts your feelings, sorry. Grow thicker skin.

Second, why do you think I tried to "destroy Faulk's character and discount what he says".. Please tell me where the hell I even mentioned Faulk's name, much less tried to destroy his character in any post that I have made in this thread or on this board? Please do, I'll be sitting here waiting. But if you want me to talk about him.. I don't doubt he has more football knowledge than I ever will. That still doesn't mean he's right about this topic and that "Schaub gives the Texans the best chance to win in 2014".. Because nobody knows that right now, the freaking draft hasn't even taken place, much less FA

Third, How did I turn this into a "personal attack" when I didn't even quote your post or respond to it, and the only mention I even made about you was mentioning on how you seem emotionally driven in your defense of Matt Schaub. That isn't a "personal attack". It's a simple observation and not one that isn't outlandish by the way you freak out and post some of the crap that you do against anybody who says anything (and I mean anything) critical of Schaub.

You want to accuse people of personnel attacks.. you didn't even finish that sentence without giving one and never once in this thread did I "talk about how I'm enlightened or how you're a idiot with no clue", stop being so sensitive anytime somebody doesn't think Schaub is god or has a difference of opinion with you.

Holy crap.

First off it did not offend me, it's just so juvenile and a really pi$$ poor analogy that's all. I never asked you to be PC, just realistic, but it's clear that is something you are not capable of.

Secondly, if you are looking for examples of your character attacks look no further than a post you made right after this gem (See below) where you mock the fact that Faulk is a HOF player and happens to have a cable TV job, and then go on to say that Ward somehow has more insight because he played two seasons with Schaub.

Perhaps it is my short coming, but I tend to listen to someone like Faulk over a journeyman like Ward. You insinuate that because they were teammates, Ward has some additional insight, and that a career backup running backs opinion is somehow on par with, or superior to that of Marshall Faulk. And yeah I am sure Schaub and Ward hung out all the time. Mrs. Schaub probably had Ward over for dinner all the time right?

For the record I never said Faulk was right. I simply created a thread to discuss his opinion, and quote what he said in a video. You are making this thread about me, instead of about what Faulk said, who after all is the one who said it, not me. I am not emotionally driven in my defense of Schaub. In fact I do not remember defending him at all in this thread.

The fact that I bring him up, or have a differing opinion than yours, leads you to believe I have an emotional attachment, or desire to defend Schaub. This is because you think you are the majority opinion regarding Schaub, and you cannot fathom how someone like me refuses to join the bandwagon mentality regarding Schaub. You think everyone else thinks like you, (or at least should) and if they don't, something is wrong with them, and whatever they post is crap.

All of your posts are personal attacks. Unless of course you are are agreeing with a like minded fan, or they you. If someone has an alternate view, you attempt to belittle them, and prop yourself up as some sort of expert on every issue related to the Texans.

You say "It's a simple observation and not one that isn't outlandish by the way you freak out and post some of the crap that you do against anybody who says anything (and I mean anything) critical of Schaub." labeling my posts as "crap" because they are opposite of yours, but you are not turning this into a personal attack are you? And if I "Freaked Out" at "Anybody" who says "Anything" critical of Schaub, I would have as many posts as you do because we all know how many posts there are bashing Schaub on this board, but since I don't, it is reasonable to believe that you are just exaggerating and really just dismayed that someone could have an opposite view than you, because after all, you are the last word when it comes to football, and more importantly the Houston Texans right?

You and I both know you do not have to actually type the words 'enlightened" or "Idiot" to imply them. And I have read enough of your posts to know how you operate.

God? Another exaggeration eh? Your propensity to blow everything out of proportion is staggering. Possibly compensating for something I suppose. Be that as it may, it does not change the fact that it is you who is overreacting to my post, and reading into it things I never said or suggested.

Ward is obviously disgruntled because he isn't a HOFer and doesn't have a cable TV position so he doesn't know as much as Faulk, having a HOF ring and talking on T.V. gives you more insight over actually being a guy's teammate and knowing him personally. :rolleyes:

See above

What reason would ward have to be disgruntled with Schaub? Sounds like you're making up a narrative. Glad dbarrell brought up Ted johnson, I'd forgotten about him and Seth Payne and nd kalu and Greg koch.

Yes someone definitely has there head somewhere.

I see you have some kind of weirdness going on with Schaub and this isn't a real conversation so I'll just leave this one right here.

Well who knows why? Why else would he make such comments? Maybe Schaub made him his b|tch... I don't know, but from experience, those kinds of comments after an exit are often because some kind of grudge, rather than any real insight into the player himself.

Ward retired in 2012 after nobody wanted him, even though he played well for the Texans the previous year. But I am supposed to give more weight to his opinion than Marshall Faulk's because they played together right? Or is it because Ward is a QB guru and knows what a championship QB is? I am certain I could find many, many more players that have played with, or against Schaub who would disagree with Mr. Wards comments. No? One former player speaking ill of Schaub does not impress me.

This "weirdness going on with Schaub" you speak of is the same exact problem, your buddy Mr. Bombed has. It's a differing opinion, and it's not like all of my whole 300+ post are about Schaub. I just get tired of the same old BS guys like you spew about Matt Schaub so i speak up. No crime in that, and nothing weird about it. I know that is hard for you to understand, because your bandwagon mentality tells you everyone should fall in line with the way you think. Sorry dude, I do my own thinking.

It happens when you're done as a player. As Schaub is.

:potkettle:

Didn't you bring the subject up? No one other than yourself thinks Schaub returning is even a remote possibility.

The End.

Didn't you say the same thing about Kubiak? In regards to Schaub coming back. I never said anything of the sort. I asked for discussion on the topic based on what a former player said in a video interview with Vandemeer.

But I think if you actually read the entire thread, you will see there are some who would entertain the idea under several circumstances, so trying to make me out to be the lone nut job when I never even said he should, or would come back is pretty funny.

I have to ask though, if it is not even a remote possibility. why hasn't Schaub been cut yet? Is there some advantage to holding onto a washed up player who is done in the NFL that I am not aware of? I know... Maybe the Texans want other teams to think they may keep him so they will practice for him? No? Perhaps they are trying to drive up his trade value? No that can't be it, because as you said, he is done in the NFL.

Maybe it is some super secret coaching technique that "The Hoody" taught O'Brien?

Oh by the way, thanks for writing "The End" at the end of your post. It sure was a powerful way to end that insightful commentary. Thanks again.

Scooter
01-29-2014, 04:02 AM
schaub's done. i've taken a lot of heat for supporting schaub through the years, and had kubiak stayed here i might agree that he'd be our best chance to win. the system is changing drastically though and matt's strength, his mastery of the playbook, is gone. matt plays horribly when he's uncomfortable. between a new system, trying to press to redeem himself, and the foot that will deteriorate during the season - he's going to be very uncomfortable. matt's not going to be on the roster.

if given the chance, i think the most exciting player going into next season will be case keenum. as i've said before, case was NOT supposed to play last season. he wasnt ready. he was still adjusting to the game and wasnt even close to having matt schaub's playbook familiarized. instead case had a paint by numbers series of plays added week by week that didnt seem at all to have kubiak's full attention. i strongly feel that if he spends the offseason and camps with his own playbook and the corresponding reps in practice, and now this game experience, he can be very successful.

ObsiWan
01-29-2014, 04:06 AM
Some of the Schaub commentary sounds awfully familiar...

...oh now I remember. It smacks of the same sort of venom that was directed toward Jacoby Jones and Brad Lidge and (to a lesser extent) Trindon Holliday...

I will watch with interest to see if Schaub is cut and subsequently picked up by some other team. The fiscal part of me says he'll be cut - probably on June 1st.

We'll see.

Nitrofish
01-29-2014, 04:53 AM
...

if given the chance, i think the most exciting player going into next season will be case keenum. as i've said before, case was NOT supposed to play last season. he wasnt ready. he was still adjusting to the game and wasnt even close to having matt schaub's playbook familiarized. instead case had a paint by numbers series of plays added week by week that didnt seem at all to have kubiak's full attention. i strongly feel that if he spends the offseason and camps with his own playbook and the corresponding reps in practice, and now this game experience, he can be very successful.

Still making excuses for Keenum? Keenum spent the entire previous year on the Texans practice squad, and if he didn't know the playbook after 1 1/2 years before his number was called, he never will.

In my "crap" opinion, O'Brien is not going to hitch his wagon to Keenum any more than he is going to hitch it to Schaub. Both are most likely gone, and aside from a few nice TD passes, I did not see anything all that exciting about Keenum, unless you like watching 20 yard losses on sacks, or fumbles. He certainly did not even come close to living up to the hype you guys threw out there.

Whatever happens, I will be glad when it does finally happen because this "Matt Schaub is the worst QB in the world", "Case Keenum has an Aura about him", "draft Johnny Football" schtick is getting super stale.

Scooter
01-29-2014, 05:32 AM
taking sheets of paper home is not the same as getting to know the playbook. as you said, keenum spent the previous year on the practice squad. in 2013 he was the 3rd stringer and lowest qb on the roster before being thrust into the starting role. when did he get time with the 1's? when did he get any attention from the coaching staff? when did he get to work on schaub's playbook - while at the same time working as the scout team quarterback? he didnt. the only time he saw a starter's practice and got to work on the playbook on the field was half way through the season, in a decision obviously not supported by the head coach.

i sound like a homer, that's fine, i got the same accusation when voicing my support of schaub and stand by those opinions at the time. following the jump from college to practice squad to 3rd string and then starter i saw a ton of growth from keenum as well as loads of potential. of course o'brien would be crazy to hitch his wagon to keenum, an unproven UDFA who went winless last year. i think he'd be crazy to not give him a real shot with the 1's in camp though. case has a phenomenal skill set that i believe will translate to being a successful pro if given the necessary support.

you seem to be getting a bit agitated about this discussion bud, dont let the offseason get to you. :toast2:

Nitrofish
01-29-2014, 05:58 AM
taking sheets of paper home is not the same as getting to know the playbook. as you said, keenum spent the previous year on the practice squad. in 2013 he was the 3rd stringer and lowest qb on the roster before being thrust into the starting role. when did he get time with the 1's? when did he get any attention from the coaching staff? when did he get to work on schaub's playbook - while at the same time working as the scout team quarterback? he didnt. the only time he saw a starter's practice and got to work on the playbook on the field was half way through the season, in a decision obviously not supported by the head coach.

i sound like a homer, that's fine, i got the same accusation when voicing my support of schaub and stand by those opinions at the time. following the jump from college to practice squad to 3rd string and then starter i saw a ton of growth from keenum as well as loads of potential. of course o'brien would be crazy to hitch his wagon to keenum, an unproven UDFA who went winless last year. i think he'd be crazy to not give him a real shot with the 1's in camp though. case has a phenomenal skill set that i believe will translate to being a successful pro if given the necessary support.

you seem to be getting a bit agitated about this discussion bud, dont let the offseason get to you. :toast2:

I guess that is one of the problems with text, or perhaps I do not emote enough, but I am not upset at all. I am not being hostile towards you, or anyone else for that matter.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect it, but I thought we were supposed to discuss things on a discussion board?

I thought it was a mistake to throw Keenum in there, but I will also admit I do not think he has the skill set you think he does. I assume, and yeah I know what assuming gets you, (I watched Benny Hill growing up) that you are basing your analysis on Keenum's college career. That is where I have a problem.

In college you face 1-3 great players on a team you play week in and week out. In the NFL, they are all the best of the best. Even the worst player is better than most players Keenum faced in college, so usually that skill set is not what it was in college, and it is like starting all over again, trying to catch up with the speed of the pro game.

Unless you were a hand picked #1 draft pick, nobody is going to give you all the time you need to develop because this is a win now league. So a UDFA better be ready when his number is called, and he better light it up regardless of other circumstances, and Keenum did not do that.

Regardless of what many of the couch GM's on this message board say, the people who get paid to scout and evaluate players are generally pretty good at it, which is why they are getting paid to do it, and others are here talking about what should have been done.

It is going to be a painfully long off season, but I do not let anything anyone says to me here get to me, no matter how it might seem from how some of you are reading my posts. My opinions mean about as much as anyone else'. That's jack squat. Neither McNair, O'Brien, or any of their minions are reading this message board looking for great ideas to use.

I created this thread to engage in discussion about what Marshall Faulk said, but instead I just got the same venomous hatred from the usual suspects who are not interested in discussion. No skin off my back, and I won't lose any sleep over it, but I will continue to call BS when I see it, much to the dismay of the a fore mentioned crowd.

Marshall
01-29-2014, 06:20 AM
Nah I got nothing against O'Brien...yet. He seems like a smart fellow (like myself :winky:). The 2013 season or as I like to call it: "How Not to Play Football". A romantic thriller comedy documentary featuring Gary Kubiak and Matt Schaub will show O'Brien that Schaub clearly has forgotten how to play the QB position. His next stop should probably be retirement and enjoy playing golf for the rest of his life. But he'll get another shot at a backup job somewhere, I don't care where as long as it's not here.

Anakin, your anger has turned you to the dark side.

Marshall
01-29-2014, 06:33 AM
Some of the Schaub commentary sounds awfully familiar...

...oh now I remember. It smacks of the same sort of venom that was directed toward Jacoby Jones and Brad Lidge and (to a lesser extent) Trindon Holliday...

I will watch with interest to see if Schaub is cut and subsequently picked up by some other team. The fiscal part of me says he'll be cut - probably on June 1st.

We'll see.

I think he is:

1. A better QB than most give him credit for.
2. Will be cut.
3. He will not be a June 1 cut. (For reasons I have expressed in other threads.)
4. He will not be signed as a starter because of this age, but might start due to injury and perform well without the season long grind effects of his injury.
5. Should be remembered fondly for what he has done prior to last season.

ps Yes, it is an extremely familiar chorus of ingratitude.

Lucky
01-29-2014, 06:52 AM
I have to ask though, if it is not even a remote possibility. why hasn't Schaub been cut yet? Is there some advantage to holding onto a washed up player who is done in the NFL that I am not aware of? I know... Maybe the Texans want other teams to think they may keep him so they will practice for him? No? Perhaps they are trying to drive up his trade value? No that can't be it, because as you said, he is done in the NFL.

The 2013 league season is not over. The Texans do not have the cap room available to cut Matt Schaub until the league 2014 season starts. Which they promptly will on March 11th, the beginning of the new league year.

So yes, there is a lot about the NFL you are not aware of. And I don't know if you are the "lone nut job" or not. What I do know is that you are Schaub's most ardent fan here. A Schaub fan first. A Texan fan? Maybe, maybe not.

Blake
01-29-2014, 07:13 AM
The 2013 league season is not over. The Texans do not have the cap room available to cut Matt Schaub until the league 2014 season starts. Which they promptly will on March 11th, the beginning of the new league year.

This.

I had a temporary brain bleed and was thinking, keep Schaub if you dont take a top QB in the draft for 2014. But if Schaub could benefit from a fresh start somewhere else, then I can only assume another vet QB could do the same in Houston. Josh McCown may be the best bet if we can get a deal that works for both parties.

Nitrofish
01-29-2014, 11:05 AM
The 2013 league season is not over. The Texans do not have the cap room available to cut Matt Schaub until the league 2014 season starts. Which they promptly will on March 11th, the beginning of the new league year.

So yes, there is a lot about the NFL you are not aware of. And I don't know if you are the "lone nut job" or not. What I do know is that you are Schaub's most ardent fan here. A Schaub fan first. A Texan fan? Maybe, maybe not.

Ok well that is good to know, as I did not know that. Have a link to that by any chance? So you have been notified of what moves the Texans are making and when? Wow I had no idea you were so connected. Oh, and that was ONE thing if it turns out to be true. How did you stretch that into "A Lot" I don't know?

Questioning whether or not I am a Texans fan is beyond ridiculous. Don't be a douche.

Hervoyel
01-29-2014, 11:22 AM
Sometimes a player and a team reach a point where there's not much left to accomplish together. At some point you've seen everything there is to see out of this player on that team. In other cases a player wears his welcome out with the fans and the team realizes that they simply can't roll that guy out again. Just for the record I don't really think that the reply that's coming to tell me that teams don't ditch QB's because of what stupid fans think is really worth answering so lets just accept that someone is going to say it and that I think that someone is a ****ing moron. Teams are businesses and they ultimately know that their product has to appeal to the fans = customers That's why they try so hard sometimes to get player "a" and conversely it's why they walk away from player "b" every now and then.

I'm not sure that Matt Schaub is in a "bad marriage" with the Texans. With the team making so many changes I don't know for certain if his departure is a given or if it's even necessary. The majority of the skills are still there (to the extent that they've ever been "there") and I don't think that the clearly limited mobility just flat out can't be coached around. It's possible that we could see something more out of Matt Schaub in a different system. That doesn't really matter though.

I don't think he's gone because of that. I think he's gone because of the nature of the mistakes he was making last year before he was eventually benched. Those pick-sixes were the kind of mental errors that players start to make when they can't get into whatever groove they need to be in to perform. Sometimes a benching can snap a guy out of it and indeed Schaub didn't come back and continue making quite the number of mistakes or kind of mistakes he'd been making. He came back after Keenum looking "better" (I guess is the word) than he did earlier in the year but not really fixed.

Now the question is could even Matt Schaub at his best have righted that ship and I'm going to say the answer to that is no. By the time he got back on the field again the team was in quit-mode. It's a major contributor to Keenum's 0-'fer record and diminishing performance and it's the reason why Matt's better play didn't translate into better results. Keep in mind I'm not saying Matt played well. he just didn't throw games completely away like a madman as he'd been doing.

Does OB see this? Does he care? Are the Texans focused on winning right now at the risk of further angering their customers who were burning jerseys and generally making asses of themselves much of last season over Matt Schaub (Don't get offended, I mean me too)?

I think the Texans might have been willing to fly in the face of conventional wisdom and bring him back if not for the potential monetary savings and if not for the fans turning so completely on him. He might possibly be the best chance the Texans have to win in 2014 but we'll never know because he's going to be cut and he should be. It makes the most business sense and the team quit on Matt. That really happened. His play was so bad at those "fixed point" moments that everyone focuses on and remembers that the defense was (I think) very close to vocally turning on the offense. That's why Gary was fired. That's why everything changed. That's why OB is here and that's why Matt cannot be anymore.

It's time for the next stage in the Texans existence. Nobody is going to make any kind of push to stop that from happening. Faulk makes real sense but sometimes that doesn't matter. The ship has sailed.

Mr. White
01-29-2014, 11:52 AM
Ok well that is good to know, as I did not know that. Have a link to that by any chance? So you have been notified of what moves the Texans are making and when? Wow I had no idea you were so connected. Oh, and that was ONE thing if it turns out to be true. How did you stretch that into "A Lot" I don't know?

Questioning whether or not I am a Texans fan is beyond ridiculous. Don't be a douche.

Just when I thought that this was going to be a boring offseason around here because everyone was on the same page....

I just read 5 pages of a ridiculous argument over a moot point and was pretty entertained. I'll be really impressed if you can keep up this pace for another day or two.

Nitrofish
01-29-2014, 12:05 PM
Just when I thought that this was going to be a boring offseason around here because everyone was on the same page....

I just read 5 pages of a ridiculous argument over a moot point and was pretty entertained. I'll be really impressed if you can keep up this pace for another day or two.

Who said we were not all on the same page? Once again I did not say Schaub was the Texans best chance to win in 2014, Marshall Faulk did. I think it is safe to say Schaub's days in Houston are over. And I have also said in other posts that it was time to change. I also said I would get behind whomever is selected to lead the Texans.

It's everyone else trying to make it out like I made the comment, and am suggesting Schaub should get another chance. Which never happened. Personally I think some of these guys feelings are hurt because of some of the things I said about their hero Case Keenum, and him not being able to muster even a single win has them a bit touchy. After all they all swore he would light it up. They were also the same crowd who said if the Texans had a mobile QB, our problems were solved. Some of the same dudes also said Kubiak was done, and would never work in the NFL again.

steelbtexan
01-29-2014, 12:12 PM
I guess that is one of the problems with text, or perhaps I do not emote enough, but I am not upset at all. I am not being hostile towards you, or anyone else for that matter.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect it, but I thought we were supposed to discuss things on a discussion board?

I thought it was a mistake to throw Keenum in there, but I will also admit I do not think he has the skill set you think he does. I assume, and yeah I know what assuming gets you, (I watched Benny Hill growing up) that you are basing your analysis on Keenum's college career. That is where I have a problem.

In college you face 1-3 great players on a team you play week in and week out. In the NFL, they are all the best of the best. Even the worst player is better than most players Keenum faced in college, so usually that skill set is not what it was in college, and it is like starting all over again, trying to catch up with the speed of the pro game.

Unless you were a hand picked #1 draft pick, nobody is going to give you all the time you need to develop because this is a win now league. So a UDFA better be ready when his number is called, and he better light it up regardless of other circumstances, and Keenum did not do that.

Regardless of what many of the couch GM's on this message board say, the people who get paid to scout and evaluate players are generally pretty good at it, which is why they are getting paid to do it, and others are here talking about what should have been done.

It is going to be a painfully long off season, but I do not let anything anyone says to me here get to me, no matter how it might seem from how some of you are reading my posts. My opinions mean about as much as anyone else'. That's jack squat. Neither McNair, O'Brien, or any of their minions are reading this message board looking for great ideas to use.

I created this thread to engage in discussion about what Marshall Faulk said, but instead I just got the same venomous hatred from the usual suspects who are not interested in discussion. No skin off my back, and I won't lose any sleep over it, but I will continue to call BS when I see it, much to the dismay of the a fore mentioned crowd.

Rick Smith still has a job, so I wouldn't that just because they're employed doesn't mean everybody on the Texans staff is good at scouting/finding talent/managing the cap etc.....

Hervoyel
01-29-2014, 12:28 PM
Who said we were not all on the same page? Once again I did not say Schaub was the Texans best chance to win in 2014, Marshall Faulk did. I think it is safe to say Schaub's days in Houston are over. And I have also said in other posts that it was time to change. I also said I would get behind whomever is selected to lead the Texans.

It's everyone else trying to make it out like I made the comment, and am suggesting Schaub should get another chance. Which never happened. Personally I think some of these guys feelings are hurt because of some of the things I said about their hero Case Keenum, and him not being able to muster even a single win has them a bit touchy. After all they all swore he would light it up. They were also the same crowd who said if the Texans had a mobile QB, our problems were solved. Some of the same dudes also said Kubiak was done, and would never work in the NFL again.

I know my feelings were hurt over comments made about my hero Case Keenum. :overreact:

He did light it up at first. Nobody can argue otherwise with any credibility. Like I said above though and I'll elaborate just a bit here the team finally hit quit-mode. When Keenum came in and had those very, very good (but not quite good enough) games against KC, Indy, and Arizona I think the losing streak began to take on a new meaning. Here the team had finally moved on past Matt Schaub and I think many of them thought that the change would produce. It didn't (for a number of reasons not the least of which was an often MIA running game due to injuries) and that's when quit-mode kicked in. Not everyone. Not all at once. Just enough doubt and frustration and good old fashioned apathy to keep that last bit of the season in the ditch.

Case didn't get a fair shot. I believe that. I also believe that nobody in the NFL gets promised a fair shot and most prospective players don't even really get a shot at all. On all 32 teams more guys go home it seems than stay on the team. Case had as good a chance as anyone can expect. It just wasn't in the cards this time around. He played well, he played poorly. The same can be said of just about every first time starter. He had a shot and the clock was ticking.

You have to be able to accept that stuff though and move on when the player you like doesn't succeed just like we move on when guys we don't care about fall short. Every year a pack of them shows up, gives it their best shot, and ends up going home. Can't fall in love with any one player because the team marches on.

Bulls on Parade
01-29-2014, 12:33 PM
Matt Schaub? I think he'll be battling for the backup or third-string job on the quarterback depth chart going into training camp next season. For the Baltimore Ravens that is.

Thorn
01-29-2014, 12:45 PM
Matt Schaub? I think he'll be battling for the backup or third-string job on the quarterback depth chart going into training camp next season. For the Baltimore Ravens that is.

Whether you like Schaub or not, I think you'd have to admit he'd be one hell of a good backup QB. That is if he's willing to work cheap. There is no way he is worth the kind of money that's in his contract right now.

thunderkyss
01-29-2014, 04:46 PM
Matt Schaub? I think he'll be battling for the backup or third-string job on the quarterback depth chart going into training camp next season. For the Baltimore Ravens that is.

Carson Palmer is starting in the NFL.

Lucky
01-29-2014, 10:16 PM
Questioning whether or not I am a Texans fan is beyond ridiculous. Don't be a douche.


Gary is a good dude, and good at what he does, and I hope he has success in Baltimore, and yeah I will probably be secretly rooting for him when he comes to Reliant in 2014 for a little payback for the lousy way he was let go from the Texans.
Anyone who has read your posts knows it's no "secret" that you will be rooting against the Texans when Kubiak and or Schaub come to town to play the Texans. Have fun on the Ravens boards, calling for Kubiak and Schaub to replace Harbaugh and Flacco.

JPPT1974
01-29-2014, 10:28 PM
Well all of us will see who will be under center come September! Now won't we?!

steelbtexan
01-29-2014, 11:00 PM
Carson Palmer is starting in the NFL.

And is light yrs better than Schaub.

texan_joe
01-29-2014, 11:24 PM
And is light yrs better than Schaub.

You cannot be serious about this. Schaub had a rough season but saying hrs is light years better than Schaub is an absolute joke of a comment.

Nitrofish
01-30-2014, 07:10 AM
Anyone who has read your posts knows it's no "secret" that you will be rooting against the Texans when Kubiak and or Schaub come to town to play the Texans. Have fun on the Ravens boards, calling for Kubiak and Schaub to replace Harbaugh and Flacco.

There you go speaking for everyone again. Also nice job of exaggerating what I posted. Talk about being too sensitive.

I rarely post on that board, and I am pretty sure I will not be there posting garbage like that. I said it was a possibility that Kubiak could become HC there, that is all. Don't be putting words in my mouth.

Schaub does not even play for the Ravens, and it is some of you suggesting that is where he will end up, not me.

Personally it is none of your business who I root for, or why. All you are trying to do is taint my character, or question whether or not I am a Texans fan, which is hilarious. Why the hell would I spend my precious time posting on the Texans board if I were a fan of some other team? Don't bother answering, it's a rhetorical question.

In regards to cheering for Kubiak when the Ravens come to Reliant this season, yeah as I said in a previous post, I probably will. But it will be more cheering against db's like you and your ilk for trashing a man who gave everything he had when he was a Texan, and did a lot for the team, that you and others seem to want to pretend never happened, or re-write the history books on what really did happen.

Stop being such a cry baby. It's just a game dude.

And is light yrs better than Schaub.

You are high aren't you? You are taking bong rips right now aren't you?

You cannot be serious about this. Schaub had a rough season but saying hrs is light years better than Schaub is an absolute joke of a comment.

Agreed, but you will have to get used to all the Schaub bashing that goes on here Joe. According to most here, Schaub is the worst QB to ever play football. Some here would rather have the butt fumbler than Schaub, so that tells you where their head is.

thunderkyss
01-30-2014, 07:19 AM
And is light yrs better than Schaub.

There was a time when I believed this. Before his injury (Carson's, not Schaub's) when he had Houshmandzadah & Ocho... actually it was before Ocho Cinco...... Chad Johnson. That was one heck of a QB. But since then....... not so much.

Seegara
01-30-2014, 08:41 AM
(A conntroversial statement that doesn't need to be repeated)
Trade Schaub for Justin Tucker and trade Bullock for a boxcar load of nuclear waste.

Raf
01-30-2014, 12:57 PM
My personal opinion.

-Don't want to commit to any of the QB prospects coming out this draft. Would rather have Clowney or Matthews. Strong belief in the "...in the trenches".

-Don't want to commit to any of the FA QBs either.

-Hate Schaub's salary but would be worse to take cap hit and cut him.

-I've been done with Schaub for some time now but the question has always begged in the back of my mind, "Could it be Kubiak that restricts Schaub"...sort of the "chick or the egg".

-Trying Schaub out one more year, you've completed the entire "process of elimination" by firing Kubiak and depending on the type of season Schaub has under O'Brian...you can somewhat put things to bed. If Schaub sucks....DONE! No second-guessing yourself. If he does well....then you benefit and can safely assume it lied on Kubiak's ultra-conservative approach.

-EVEN IF Schaub does well under O'Brian...DO NOT....I REPEAT.....DO NOT recommit to him under any circumstances. I don't care if he takes us to the AFC Championshiop...the best in Houston NFL history. Do not commit any further to him.

-If he does well, it allows you to filter through the other aspects of the team that held you back some, be it players at different spots or coaches or their approach. This is something of vital importance you wouldn't be able to do if you either did away with Schaub, ate the cap hit and commit to the wrong FA ior rookie drafted QB as the QB performance would eclipse or sort of distract the appropriate attention away from the other aspects of the team that are lacking. After all, QB is the most important position.

-If he sucks....you know what to do. By this time (perhaps a season later), you can safely put that issue to bed, you move on without any reservations. The cap hit is now drastically reduced. Potentially better FA QBs are on the market or possibly better QB prospects in the draft or at least one O'Brian eyes as HIS GUY. And vice-versa to the previous statement, you find out if other aspects of the game (players/coaches/approaches) were so strong that even despite the lack of positive QB play, those aspects showed tremendous strength and will, keeping the team in the game. That can be a good thing also.

O'Brian is said to be a great offensive mind and a QB guru. But we've heard that before and didn't bear much fruit. We're 0 for 1 with "QB guru"ism. Hopefully we're 1 for 2 with O'Brian and we can at least get decent production at the QB spot regardless of what name is on the back of the jersey. With that said, as much as I've chastised Schaub's name...if O'Brian decides to test it out with Schaub, not feeling too good about the rookie QB prospects, getting something out of the cap hit Vs. cutting him....even if it doesn't result in wins but however does clear things up for him in other ways and still proves to be just as valuable......then I'm up FOR that.

Would make sense to me. I'm sure most wouldn't be able to wrap their heads around it due to last year's results and how disgusted they are with Schaub. But this guy here thinks there's benefits to everything, no matter how grim things are. O'Brian's new here and I'm backing his decisions from the get go. My support may dimish as time goes on, as it did with Kubes....but for now...I'm in 100% until he forces me not to.

houstonspartan
01-30-2014, 06:19 PM
My personal opinion.



-Don't want to commit to any of the QB prospects coming out this draft. Would rather have Clowney or Matthews. Strong belief in the "...in the trenches".



-Don't want to commit to any of the FA QBs either.



-Hate Schaub's salary but would be worse to take cap hit and cut him.



-I've been done with Schaub for some time now but the question has always begged in the back of my mind, "Could it be Kubiak that restricts Schaub"...sort of the "chick or the egg".



-Trying Schaub out one more year, you've completed the entire "process of elimination" by firing Kubiak and depending on the type of season Schaub has under O'Brian...you can somewhat put things to bed. If Schaub sucks....DONE! No second-guessing yourself. If he does well....then you benefit and can safely assume it lied on Kubiak's ultra-conservative approach.



-EVEN IF Schaub does well under O'Brian...DO NOT....I REPEAT.....DO NOT recommit to him under any circumstances. I don't care if he takes us to the AFC Championshiop...the best in Houston NFL history. Do not commit any further to him.



-If he does well, it allows you to filter through the other aspects of the team that held you back some, be it players at different spots or coaches or their approach. This is something of vital importance you wouldn't be able to do if you either did away with Schaub, ate the cap hit and commit to the wrong FA ior rookie drafted QB as the QB performance would eclipse or sort of distract the appropriate attention away from the other aspects of the team that are lacking. After all, QB is the most important position.



-If he sucks....you know what to do. By this time (perhaps a season later), you can safely put that issue to bed, you move on without any reservations. The cap hit is now drastically reduced. Potentially better FA QBs are on the market or possibly better QB prospects in the draft or at least one O'Brian eyes as HIS GUY. And vice-versa to the previous statement, you find out if other aspects of the game (players/coaches/approaches) were so strong that even despite the lack of positive QB play, those aspects showed tremendous strength and will, keeping the team in the game. That can be a good thing also.



O'Brian is said to be a great offensive mind and a QB guru. But we've heard that before and didn't bear much fruit. We're 0 for 1 with "QB guru"ism. Hopefully we're 1 for 2 with O'Brian and we can at least get decent production at the QB spot regardless of what name is on the back of the jersey. With that said, as much as I've chastised Schaub's name...if O'Brian decides to test it out with Schaub, not feeling too good about the rookie QB prospects, getting something out of the cap hit Vs. cutting him....even if it doesn't result in wins but however does clear things up for him in other ways and still proves to be just as valuable......then I'm up FOR that.



Would make sense to me. I'm sure most wouldn't be able to wrap their heads around it due to last year's results and how disgusted they are with Schaub. But this guy here thinks there's benefits to everything, no matter how grim things are. O'Brian's new here and I'm backing his decisions from the get go. My support may dimish as time goes on, as it did with Kubes....but for now...I'm in 100% until he forces me not to.


Your opinion is logical and rational. I see your point.

But, it's sometimes better to scrap the whole thing and start all over.

This team has, for years, too often put off what needs to be done, often under the idea of giving player/coach x "one more year."

Nine times out of ten, that hasn't worked out, and usually the person we've given one more year to does not improve.

Is it possible Schaub was held back by Kubiak? Yes. Is it possible he could thrive under O'Brien? Yes. But I don't care. We have a new coach, who has a new system and wants to train his own QB. Let's get started on that RIGHT NOW rather than wait a year, see IF Schaub works and then drafting a QB next year. A draft, mind you, that we have no idea where we will be picking.

No, it's best to just move on from Schaub, and let him move on in his career.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Texan_Bill
01-30-2014, 08:22 PM
Meh! With Bill O'Brien and Romeo being disciples of Belicheat, I think they may trade that #1 pick away, stockpiling future picks. Again, this is a fairly good draft class for QB's, so that they don't have to go "all in" on any one QB. AJ McCarron would be fine (not to mention his GF Katherine Webb -or- his mom Dee Dee Bonner.... *that would be sweet*

Matt Schaub is no longer an option. Irrespective of the "cap hit" I think the Texans and O'Brien will cut ties, cut him outright.


****EDIT****

Schaub will be a starter in Dallas at some point.

kingtexan
01-31-2014, 05:06 AM
And is light yrs better than Schaub.
This^^^

Lucky
01-31-2014, 06:55 AM
-Hate Schaub's salary but would be worse to take cap hit and cut him.

Why would it be worse to take the cap hit for cutting Schaub? He will count $14.5 million against the cap if he's on the 2014 roster. Even if they take all of his dead money on the 2014 cap, Schaub would count $10.5 million. That's a $4 million cap savings. If they decide to designate Schaub a June 1st cut, there's only $3.5 million in dead money in 2014 ($7 million in 2015). That would be an $11 million cap savings. I don't see anything "worse" about that.

Raf
01-31-2014, 09:10 AM
Why would it be worse to take the cap hit for cutting Schaub? He will count $14.5 million against the cap if he's on the 2014 roster. Even if they take all of his dead money on the 2014 cap, Schaub would count $10.5 million. That's a $4 million cap savings. If they decide to designate Schaub a June 1st cut, there's only $3.5 million in dead money in 2014 ($7 million in 2015). That would be an $11 million cap savings. I don't see anything "worse" about that.

Until it's certain or rather until O'Brian is CERTAIN of what Schaub can or can't do in his system no one can flat out say it's $4.5 million in saving and a $10 million dead money cap hit. I don't care what anyone says, $10 million in cap space is a ton of money. A lot of players can be structured in with that much room.

If O'Brian is certain that Schaub won't cut it, sure...cut your losses and it's easily viewed as $4.5 million saved. But O'Brian could very well value the $10 million dead cap hit more than some are willing to believe. He could view it as Schaub not being $10 million cap dollars bad. Or even not as bad enough for him to take the $10M dead money hit and committing to one of these rookie QBs because that's in essence the case.

I see that here on this board along with social media that the masses talk about Schaub being released and $4.5M in saving as if it's imminent. These folks could be setting themselves up for huge disappointment. No one knows whether O'Brian values the $4.5M in cap savings over the $10M in dead money or vice versa, values the $10M cap hit over the $4.5 in cap saving, thus thinking Schaub and his contract is better than the rookie prospects.

I'm simply trying to view both sides objectively.

Nitrofish
01-31-2014, 09:18 AM
...
I'm simply trying to view both sides objectively.

Well you had better cut that crap out. The last thing we need around here is someone trying to be reasonable. :rolleyes:

infantrycak
01-31-2014, 09:22 AM
I'm simply trying to view both sides subjectively.

I would have gone for objectively.

Raf
01-31-2014, 09:42 AM
I would have gone for objectively.

ah, yes....sneaky fingers. good pick up. :fingergun:

Lucky
01-31-2014, 10:00 AM
Until it's certain or rather until O'Brian is CERTAIN of what Schaub can or can't do in his system no one can flat out say it's $4.5 million in saving and a $10 million dead money cap hit. I don't care what anyone says, $10 million in cap space is a ton of money. A lot of players can be structured in with that much room.
I think you're missing the point. The question is keeping Schaub ($14.5 mil cap hit), releasing Schaub ($10.5 million cap hit), or releasing Schaub as a June 1st cut ($3.5 million cap hit in 2014, $7 million cap hit in 2015). Those are the numbers, and more cap room is available without Schaub than with.

I think the writing is on the wall that Schaub will be released once the league year starts. The owner has seen enough. He doesn't want to sell a lame duck season with Schaub as QB to the fans. I also can't see O'Brien wanting to waste a season with a QB he has no intention on keeping. Any scenario that has keeping Schaub on the roster is far-fetched, at best.

JB
01-31-2014, 10:55 AM
Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

So what! This morning Joe Theisman said that Keenum is the man. He knows lots more about qb's than Faulk will ever know :kitten:

Mr. White
01-31-2014, 11:25 AM
I think the writing is on the wall that Schaub will be released once the league year starts. The owner has seen enough. He doesn't want to sell a lame duck season with Schaub as QB to the fans. I also can't see O'Brien wanting to waste a season with a QB he has no intention on keeping. Any scenario that has keeping Schaub on the roster is far-fetched, at best.

The existence of this thread is proof positive that Marshall Faulk is just another national talking head that doesn't know jack **** about the QB situation in Houston. I seriously doubt that he's even watched any Texans games that his network didn't broadcast. All he knows is Schaub's history. The foot injury isn't even on the national radar.

If a former player that's also a film junkie like Ron Jaworski said that Matt Schaub gives the Texans the best chance to win, then that opinion would hold some water. Jaworksi watches film. Faulk argues with other ex-jocks in a studio.

McNair told us all we needed to know when he said Keenum would be starting the rest of the season. Once he said that, Schaub's fate was sealed. Anyone who thinks that Schaub might be on the roster next year is in denial.

CND told us what to expect after the Lisfranc injury happened and it's come to pass. I expect him to get released and not pass a physical for other teams as soon as they see the x-rays.

Fire, meet gas.

infantrycak
01-31-2014, 11:56 AM
CND told us what to expect after the Lisfranc injury happened and it's come to pass. I expect him to get released and not pass a physical for other teams as soon as they see the x-rays.

He'll pass a physical just fine. The legacy will weigh heavily in considering him however.

thunderkyss
01-31-2014, 12:28 PM
If O'Brian is certain that Schaub won't cut it, sure...cut your losses and it's easily viewed as $4.5 million saved. But O'Brian could very well value the $10 million dead cap hit more than some are willing to believe. He could view it as Schaub not being $10 million cap dollars bad. Or even not as bad enough for him to take the $10M dead money hit and committing to one of these rookie QBs because that's in essence the case.

I see that here on this board along with social media that the masses talk about Schaub being released and $4.5M in saving as if it's imminent. These folks could be setting themselves up for huge disappointment. No one knows whether O'Brian values the $4.5M in cap savings over the $10M in dead money or vice versa, values the $10M cap hit over the $4.5 in cap saving, thus thinking Schaub and his contract is better than the rookie prospects.

I'm simply trying to view both sides objectively.

Objectively it doesn't matter. Either we're spending $14M to let Schaub play out his contract, or we're taking a $10M dead money cap hit. We don't get $10M to sign anyone regardless.

Now, if they talk him into taking a paycut this year, to $1M (which I don't think he would go that low) then Schaub's cap for 2014 would be $4.5M & we save ~$10M. Then we can cut him as a 2015 June 1st cut with $3.5M dead money on 2015 & 2016.

So if OB "values" that $10M he needs to be able to sell ice to an Eskimo & talk Schaub into a $9M pay cut.

Raf
01-31-2014, 01:07 PM
I get what you guys are saying and agreed. However, when I bring up the idea of OB valuing the $10M, I didn't mean he would be free to use it on other bodies. I referred to it as $10M from a pure principle standpoint. To be more clear, it involves OB getting production (staying with Schaub for the time being) out of the $10M versus it being dead money, regardless of it being positive or unimpressive production. The positive of either were explained in my initial post, one page back.

$10M is $10M of cap space, any way you slice it. Whether it's in one year, two years, etc...it's $10M, and in this case, $10.5 to be exact, in a span of two years. I only bring these points up only to heavily weigh the possibilities that come with either decision.

Now, for some, it's a matter of cutting Matt Schaub just for the sake of cutting him. To some the cap figures matter to varying degrees whereas others want him gone, regardless of the impact it has on it.

For me personally (and not implying that you all are), I don't see a Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck available in either FA or upcoming draft. It's all speculation as to how OB sees Schaub. And while it sure looks like the writing was on the wall for Schaub when McNair decided that Keenum would bench Schaub in favor of Keenum playing out the season, IMO, doesn't exactly seal his fate for this team. I don't know about you guys...but I don't want McNair deciding who the QB is for this team from a pure performance/scouting standpoint. I trust OB making that decision...not McNair. Sure McNair could force him...but it's bad for business.

I've never been high on Schaub, even in his best seasons. But neither do I think he's trash. If I were to label him out of the two...I'd say he's what he was a few years back, a comptetent QB. What if OB sees it that way himself? Hell, he might be done with him, alright. But until its official, I don't think it's asinine to to entertain the possibility of OB retaining Schaub for some of the reasons laid on the table.

It's uncertain as to the type of system/offense OB will run. Who his offensive coordinator, if any, will be. We know nothing. Until then, as to what happens to Matt Schaub is pure conjecture, no more...no less. So how can anyone say for sure.

JB
01-31-2014, 02:16 PM
I've never been high on Schaub, even in his best seasons. But neither do I think he's trash. If I were to label him out of the two...I'd say he's what he was a few years back, a comptetent QB.

Schaub has gotten progressively worse since week 10 of the 012 season. If he was the qb he was in 2011 before his injury, it wouldn't even be considered to release him. But he's not!

texan_joe
01-31-2014, 04:06 PM
Schaub has gotten progressively worse since week 10 of the 012 season. If he was the qb he was in 2011 before his injury, it wouldn't even be considered to release him. But he's not!

I can 100% agree with this. People who act like Schaub has ALWAYS been garbage need to brush up some knowledge.
Also, Schaub at his best was a far superior QB than Keenum at his. That being said, Keenum is the only QB who should be on this roster at the start of the next season.

JB
01-31-2014, 04:32 PM
I can 100% agree with this. People who act like Schaub has ALWAYS been garbage need to brush up some knowledge.
Also, Schaub at his best was a far superior QB than Keenum at his. That being said, Keenum is the only QB who should be on this roster at the start of the next season.

We have no idea what we have in Yates, and no idea how O'Brien will view them. I'm thinking that Yates and Keenum will be given a good look in training camp

texan_joe
01-31-2014, 09:48 PM
We have no idea what we have in Yates, and no idea how O'Brien will view them. I'm thinking that Yates and Keenum will be given a good look in training camp

I agree that Yates will be on the roster, I football however think we have seen what we have in Yates, albeit a small sample size. In my opinion he's Jay Feeley. I mean he can maybe get it done in a pinch, but he's nowhere near capable enough to get you where you want. I know when he played the last half of 2011 the team wasn't at full strength with Dre being out & OD missing some time. I don't care about his TD/INT ratio( sample size IS to small for that), but his accuracy is atrocious in the intermediate range where you HAVE to be at least decent. His decision making leaves a lot to be desired. He's capable enough to tear it up in the preseason, buut that's against other teams 2's & 3's. He will be on the team next season but he's probably no better than a 3.

Norg
02-01-2014, 01:20 AM
Matt gives us the best chance to be 8-8 O YEAHHH !!!!

Allstar
02-01-2014, 01:26 AM
It's possible that he's right, but I seriously doubt Marshall has done his homework on this or any Texans topic.

ObsiWan
02-01-2014, 05:15 AM
We have no idea what we have in Yates, and no idea how O'Brien will view them. I'm thinking that Yates and Keenum will be given a good look in training camp
The Doc knows...
If you believe that Schaub was always dealing with injuries, try to remember that Yates has proven to be quite fragile dating back to 2011.........dealing with shoulder problems (including a separation on one side), and throwing elbow and back problems since 2012.......and most of this after very little game play and very sparse practice time. There was good reason why Yates was given such little consideration for real game time after the 2011 season.......and did so poorly in his very limited 2012 and 2013 game appearances And there is no reason to believe that these type of mounting problems won't continue their course, and his performance continue to be unacceptable.

[This is not to even mention his Tar Heels experience where he was stricken with ankle sprains, ankle fracture, throwing shoulder problems leading to surgery, and, of course, his infamous thumb sprain incurred while playing Frisbee. The latter made national news due to the panzy-sounding event. He later tried to explain that he incurred it with a redshirt teammate in a informal non-contact "redshirt football" activity (which would be bad enough).]

Yates appears to be a walking MASH unit...
...makes me wonder if Yates was nursing some undisclosed "nick" (we know how open and forthcoming the Texans always are regarding telling all about player injuries :D) and that played into why Keenum leap-frogged him...

LikeMike
02-01-2014, 06:55 AM
Well I think it`s true, Schaub gives us the best chance to win. It is hard to win with a rookie QB and I don`t think there is any FA QB worth investing heavily in.

Schaub was a good QB for us before last season. But he was never the QB that would help us win in the playoffs. He was a guy that you could win with if you have the right team around him.

Last season he imploded. Part of it was the O-Line, a huge part of it was mental. Could he get back to his old, adequate days? Maybe. But it would be really hard for him to do that in Houston, because I don`t think many Texans fans would welcome him back with open arms.

Now it might be smart to bring him back to tutor a rookie QB and allow him to sit and learn for the first season or 8 games or so. But it would take a big financial investment. That`s why I don`t think he will be back. Lately rookie QBs start right away and do good. Iīm betting this will be our route going forward.

kingtexan
02-01-2014, 08:31 AM
We have no idea what we have in Yates

Disagree.

We got enough of a sample the last few years to see what he has. Could he have performed different behind a better O-line? Maybe, but we can see this kid isn't the second coming, or going to be elite in this league. I don't think he is here next year, and Case is the back-up. O'Briens offense has typically been geared toward the prototypical size and strengths of the pocket QB. If he is going to adjust that philosophy, it wont be for Yates or Case ... but it might be for Johnny Football ...

thunderkyss
02-01-2014, 10:40 AM
Matt gives us the best chance to be 8-8 O YEAHHH !!!!

I've been a lukewarm Kubiak supporter; believing him not to be as bad as "everyone" says & rooting for him to prove everyone wrong.

That said, with Matt Schaub & a better game day coach, we could have had a lot more success over the last 7 years... at least that's what I believe.

I'm not saying I want Schaub back; my desire to see him prove everyone wrong is nowhere near high enough to not want to move forward with a new QB.

steelbtexan
02-01-2014, 11:53 AM
You cannot be serious about this. Schaub had a rough season but saying hrs is light years better than Schaub is an absolute joke of a comment.

Tell me has Palmer played light yrs better than Schaub since game 10 2012?

Palmer is a very good QB with a great HC, that has taken a Cards team to a 10-6 record in the best division in the NFL.

Schaub? Sets an NFL record for pick 6's and gets benched. Yeah, I would say light yrs is an appropriate term.

texanhead08
02-01-2014, 12:31 PM
Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

So what! This morning Joe Theisman said that Keenum is the man. He knows lots more about qb's than Faulk will ever know :kitten:


He would be the first one pissing on the Texans for not trying to upgrade the position after the first pick six too.

We have to cut Schaub and I don't care if we go 2-14 next year we have to get rid of that goofy ass contract they gave him in order to give this team a chance in the future.

texan_joe
02-01-2014, 03:21 PM
Tell me has Palmer played light yrs better than Schaub since game 10 2012?

Palmer is a very good QB with a great HC, that has taken a Cards team to a 10-6 record in the best division in the NFL.

Schaub? Sets an NFL record for pick 6's and gets benched. Yeah, I would say light yrs is an appropriate term.


The Arizona Cardinals went 10-6 in spite of Palmer. He wasn't that good and if the Cardinals would've benched him if they had a better option. He only had 2 more TD's than INT's (24-22). Against teams that made the playoffs he threw 12 touchdowns to 16 interceptions. His supporting cast was comparable to Schaubs on offense but Arizona had one of the better most opportunistic defenses in the NFL and a better head coach. That's why they went 10-6.
Schaub had a rough season no doubt, but his problems weren't exclusively due to him. Injuries to key players, piss poor headcoaching and playcalling.That combined with his mentality after everything started snowballing all contributed.
I'm not defending the guy from his mistakes and I agree he needs to go, butI'm also not so spiteful to the guy that I let my knowledge of the game be blinded by it. To say Palmer is LIGHTYEARS better than Schaub IS a joke to peopke who know the game and pay attention.

Brisco_County
02-02-2014, 04:07 PM
I have always had the theory that Schaub’s biomechanics are inherently imbalanced, and therefore unstable. I base this on the postural misalignment evident in all of his team photos. I’m sure some of you have noticed it too, but I’ve never seen a discussion here on how it could affect his mechanics.

In the pictures below, the yellow lines are a square X and Y axis anchored in the center of the collarbone. The vertical blue line is the diverted angle of the cervical spine (neck) from the Y axis. Halfway through the vertical blue line, there is one vector point where it changes direction back to 0 degrees, indicating a compensatory tilt in the head. The vector point is placed at the base of the nose since that is approximately where the base of the skull meets the spine.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-1-and-2_zps816ed65f.jpg

In figure 1, the horizontal blue line follows the estimated tilt in the collarbone. The tilt is only estimated since the jersey conceals the necessary reference points to track it accurately.

Figure 2 confirms that the misalignment on a younger Schaub to indicate that it has always been present.

Below, the figure on the left illustrates how his neck is tilting, and how the head tilts to compensate. On the right is an example of a neck with a normal vertical angle.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/neck_zps9faf0dd1.jpg

With a neck diverted to that degree, one would expect a compensatory curvature in the thoracic (middle) and lumbar (lower) spine. This often results in a tilting of the collarbone and pelvis, which would cause one arm to drop lower, and one leg to strike the ground harder when running. Below is an example of how a tilted neck is an indication of compensatory misalignments throughout the rest of the skeletal frame. Notice the pelvic tilt from horizontal.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/spine1_zpsb427457b.jpg

Figure 1 indicated that Schaub’s collarbone and shoulders are apparently within a “normal” range of the X axis. Since I could not find any other team photos from mid-torso to compare to figure 1, I used the photo in figure 3 below, then emphasized the negative (black) space in figure 4 to demonstrate how uneven the shoulders hang. Also note differences in the shapes of the negative space around the neck.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-3-and-4_zpsfcc00e1f.jpg

For contrast, let’s look at the alignment of a random teammate, TJ Yates. His neck alignment isn’t perfect, but it’s about the best you could expect from anyone, much less a football player. Considering the daily effects of sitting on the bench, hunching over film study, and lurking on Texans Talk, TJ’s doing pretty good here. This cervical alignment is Texans worthy.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/TJYates_zps04fab733.jpg

Question 1: Assuming that Schaub’s frame is as imbalanced as I’m theorizing, why does that mean his mechanics are unstable? That is because a quarterback throw is a motion of the entire body, much like boxing or baseball pitching. If you have ever taken boxing, you know that a good instructor coaches you on the form of your entire body to achieve an efficient transfer of energy from the planting toe to the fist. Power and accuracy are lost if your mechanics are inefficient.

Question 2: What makes me an expert on biomechanics? Not much. I’m presenting data, and this is my conclusion. I also have spinal misalignment, and my X-rays confirm a tilt in my collarbone and hips. It does not prohibit weight training, but long distance running is painful. Since I notice the imbalance in my own posture, I notice it in other people too.

Question 3: Is it possible that I am projecting my own spinal condition onto Schaub? Possibly, but from what I’ve researched, compensatory misalignments in the spine follow a predictable trend. I've never seen a case of only a crooked neck without a compensatory curve in the thoracic or lumbar spine. Also, this fact is revealing to me: I would not have been able to play football due risk of back or hip injury, but Schaub’s degree of misalignment is worse than mine.

Question 4: Why wasn’t Schaub’s mechanical imbalance a prohibitive factor before 2013? Because Schaub is a hard worker who overcame any mechanical issues during his developmental years. My theory asserts that his mechanics were only unstable, not consistently unreliable. Today, his mechanics are deteriorated because he is planting on a foot that is sending slightly inaccurate messages to his head. That is what this all comes down to: The foot isn’t doing exactly what his brain thinks it is, and his coordination can no longer compensate for the imbalanced mechanics.

So there is my theory. It is founded more on my experience and observations than on academic study, so take it for what it's worth. I also look forward to CnD either confirming or shredding it.

Playoffs
02-02-2014, 07:57 PM
I have always had the theory that Schaubís biomechanics are inherently imbalanced...

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/635/ac8/f82/resized/matt-schaub-meme-generator-i-am-not-an-elephant-i-am-a-human-being-5d5b3b.jpg

Hervoyel
02-02-2014, 08:10 PM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/635/ac8/f82/resized/matt-schaub-meme-generator-i-am-not-an-elephant-i-am-a-human-being-5d5b3b.jpg


:spit: msr

Brisco_County
02-02-2014, 10:23 PM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/635/ac8/f82/resized/matt-schaub-meme-generator-i-am-not-an-elephant-i-am-a-human-being-5d5b3b.jpg

Wow. Did you just make that?

Norg
02-02-2014, 10:42 PM
I haven't seen the SB yet but givin Wilson play imma say now Keenum gives us the best chance to win him or Teddy or Manziel ...... LOL

MEGA SWATT
02-02-2014, 10:48 PM
I'm sorry, but with all due respect to MF, he is completely wrong. MS is done and is the reason this season went into the toilet. He is terrible and needs a 1 way ticket out of Houston. I'm thankful to MS for his help in getting us the 1st pick in the draft.

Mr. Texan
02-02-2014, 10:58 PM
marshall is 100% right.

schaub allows us to suck for many years and stack up high draft picks then build a great team without a franchise qb, then draft a qb in the later rounds and become an elite team like the 9ers and the seahawks and get to the super bowl

Marshall
02-03-2014, 06:28 AM
I think you're missing the point. The question is keeping Schaub ($14.5 mil cap hit), releasing Schaub ($10.5 million cap hit), or releasing Schaub as a June 1st cut ($3.5 million cap hit in 2014, $7 million cap hit in 2015). Those are the numbers, and more cap room is available without Schaub than with.

I think the writing is on the wall that Schaub will be released once the league year starts. The owner has seen enough. He doesn't want to sell a lame duck season with Schaub as QB to the fans. I also can't see O'Brien wanting to waste a season with a QB he has no intention on keeping. Any scenario that has keeping Schaub on the roster is far-fetched, at best.

The $10.5M dead money against the cap is gone no matter what we do. All we can do is shift the years it is counted against. The actual savings is the Base Salary and Roster Bonuses for the remainder of his contract.

According to Over-the Cap, the numbers have changed a bit by a reduction in Roster Bonus from previous reports. The latest are:

2014 Base Salary $10M
2014 Roster Bonus $625K
2014 Cap Savings $10.625M

2015 Base Salary $12.5M
2015 Roster Bonus $1M
2015 Cap Savings $13.5M

2016 Base Salary $14.5M
2016 Roster Bonus $1M
2016 Cap Savings $15.5M

Total Base Salary $37M
Total Roster Bonus $2.625M
Total Cap Savings $39.625M

Just for clarity, these are over and above the $10.5M dead money from the Signing Bonus.

The financial decision boils down to whether Schaub is worth $10.625M in 2014 or some renegotiated amount. All the other numbers are superfluous. The interesting thing about the changes is that the effect on the 2014 Cap has been drastically reduced. $10.625M minus $10.5M Dead Money = .125M difference. But the 2015 $13.5M and 2016 $15.5M Cap Savings are not reduced by dead money.

Do not be confused by the charts which throw $3.5M of dead money back into the Cap Savings figure. They will report $3.625M in Cap Savings and shift the remaining $7M dead money to 2015 and 2016.

Nitrofish
02-03-2014, 06:52 AM
I have always had the theory that Schaub’s biomechanics are inherently imbalanced, and therefore unstable. I base this on the postural misalignment evident in all of his team photos. I’m sure some of you have noticed it too, but I’ve never seen a discussion here on how it could affect his mechanics.

In the pictures below, the yellow lines are a square X and Y axis anchored in the center of the collarbone. The vertical blue line is the diverted angle of the cervical spine (neck) from the Y axis. Halfway through the vertical blue line, there is one vector point where it changes direction back to 0 degrees, indicating a compensatory tilt in the head. The vector point is placed at the base of the nose since that is approximately where the base of the skull meets the spine.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-1-and-2_zps816ed65f.jpg

In figure 1, the horizontal blue line follows the estimated tilt in the collarbone. The tilt is only estimated since the jersey conceals the necessary reference points to track it accurately.

Figure 2 confirms that the misalignment on a younger Schaub to indicate that it has always been present.

Below, the figure on the left illustrates how his neck is tilting, and how the head tilts to compensate. On the right is an example of a neck with a normal vertical angle.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/neck_zps9faf0dd1.jpg

With a neck diverted to that degree, one would expect a compensatory curvature in the thoracic (middle) and lumbar (lower) spine. This often results in a tilting of the collarbone and pelvis, which would cause one arm to drop lower, and one leg to strike the ground harder when running. Below is an example of how a tilted neck is an indication of compensatory misalignments throughout the rest of the skeletal frame. Notice the pelvic tilt from horizontal.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/spine1_zpsb427457b.jpg

Figure 1 indicated that Schaub’s collarbone and shoulders are apparently within a “normal” range of the X axis. Since I could not find any other team photos from mid-torso to compare to figure 1, I used the photo in figure 3 below, then emphasized the negative (black) space in figure 4 to demonstrate how uneven the shoulders hang. Also note differences in the shapes of the negative space around the neck.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-3-and-4_zpsfcc00e1f.jpg

For contrast, let’s look at the alignment of a random teammate, TJ Yates. His neck alignment isn’t perfect, but it’s about the best you could expect from anyone, much less a football player. Considering the daily effects of sitting on the bench, hunching over film study, and lurking on Texans Talk, TJ’s doing pretty good here. This cervical alignment is Texans worthy.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/TJYates_zps04fab733.jpg

Question 1: Assuming that Schaub’s frame is as imbalanced as I’m theorizing, why does that mean his mechanics are unstable? That is because a quarterback throw is a motion of the entire body, much like boxing or baseball pitching. If you have ever taken boxing, you know that a good instructor coaches you on the form of your entire body to achieve an efficient transfer of energy from the planting toe to the fist. Power and accuracy are lost if your mechanics are inefficient.

Question 2: What makes me an expert on biomechanics? Not much. I’m presenting data, and this is my conclusion. I also have spinal misalignment, and my X-rays confirm a tilt in my collarbone and hips. It does not prohibit weight training, but long distance running is painful. Since I notice the imbalance in my own posture, I notice it in other people too.

Question 3: Is it possible that I am projecting my own spinal condition onto Schaub? Possibly, but from what I’ve researched, compensatory misalignments in the spine follow a predictable trend. I've never seen a case of only a crooked neck without a compensatory curve in the thoracic or lumbar spine. Also, this fact is revealing to me: I would not have been able to play football due risk of back or hip injury, but Schaub’s degree of misalignment is worse than mine.

Question 4: Why wasn’t Schaub’s mechanical imbalance a prohibitive factor before 2013? Because Schaub is a hard worker who overcame any mechanical issues during his developmental years. My theory asserts that his mechanics were only unstable, not consistently unreliable. Today, his mechanics are deteriorated because he is planting on a foot that is sending slightly inaccurate messages to his head. That is what this all comes down to: The foot isn’t doing exactly what his brain thinks it is, and his coordination can no longer compensate for the imbalanced mechanics.

So there is my theory. It is founded more on my experience and observations than on academic study, so take it for what it's worth. I also look forward to CnD either confirming or shredding it.

Yea, I see what you mean... No wonder Foster needed back surgery!

http://i59.tinypic.com/290rae1.jpg

Pimpin' Ain't Easy!

speedfreek
02-03-2014, 06:56 AM
Doesn't pretty much everyone from VA have this kind of slack-jawed
posture?

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-1-and-2_zps816ed65f.jpg

Nitrofish
02-03-2014, 07:24 AM
Then there's Dre's misalignment and misshapen head.

http://i58.tinypic.com/10si4yd.jpg

Must be hard to be one of the best receivers in the world, with all that going on. Poor guy.

Playoffs
02-03-2014, 12:25 PM
I have always had the theory that Schaubís biomechanics are inherently imbalanced, and therefore unstable. I base this on the postural misalignment evident in all of his team photos. Iím sure some of you have noticed it too, but Iíve never seen a discussion here on how it could affect his mechanics.

In the pictures below, the yellow lines are a square X and Y axis anchored in the center of the collarbone. The vertical blue line is the diverted angle of the cervical spine (neck) from the Y axis. Halfway through the vertical blue line, there is one vector point where it changes direction back to 0 degrees, indicating a compensatory tilt in the head. The vector point is placed at the base of the nose since that is approximately where the base of the skull meets the spine.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-1-and-2_zps816ed65f.jpg

In figure 1, the horizontal blue line follows the estimated tilt in the collarbone. The tilt is only estimated since the jersey conceals the necessary reference points to track it accurately.

Figure 2 confirms that the misalignment on a younger Schaub to indicate that it has always been present.

Below, the figure on the left illustrates how his neck is tilting, and how the head tilts to compensate. On the right is an example of a neck with a normal vertical angle.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/neck_zps9faf0dd1.jpg

With a neck diverted to that degree, one would expect a compensatory curvature in the thoracic (middle) and lumbar (lower) spine. This often results in a tilting of the collarbone and pelvis, which would cause one arm to drop lower, and one leg to strike the ground harder when running. Below is an example of how a tilted neck is an indication of compensatory misalignments throughout the rest of the skeletal frame. Notice the pelvic tilt from horizontal.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/spine1_zpsb427457b.jpg

Figure 1 indicated that Schaubís collarbone and shoulders are apparently within a ďnormalĒ range of the X axis. Since I could not find any other team photos from mid-torso to compare to figure 1, I used the photo in figure 3 below, then emphasized the negative (black) space in figure 4 to demonstrate how uneven the shoulders hang. Also note differences in the shapes of the negative space around the neck.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-3-and-4_zpsfcc00e1f.jpg

For contrast, letís look at the alignment of a random teammate, TJ Yates. His neck alignment isnít perfect, but itís about the best you could expect from anyone, much less a football player. Considering the daily effects of sitting on the bench, hunching over film study, and lurking on Texans Talk, TJís doing pretty good here. This cervical alignment is Texans worthy.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/TJYates_zps04fab733.jpg

Question 1: Assuming that Schaubís frame is as imbalanced as Iím theorizing, why does that mean his mechanics are unstable? That is because a quarterback throw is a motion of the entire body, much like boxing or baseball pitching. If you have ever taken boxing, you know that a good instructor coaches you on the form of your entire body to achieve an efficient transfer of energy from the planting toe to the fist. Power and accuracy are lost if your mechanics are inefficient.

Question 2: What makes me an expert on biomechanics? Not much. Iím presenting data, and this is my conclusion. I also have spinal misalignment, and my X-rays confirm a tilt in my collarbone and hips. It does not prohibit weight training, but long distance running is painful. Since I notice the imbalance in my own posture, I notice it in other people too.

Question 3: Is it possible that I am projecting my own spinal condition onto Schaub? Possibly, but from what Iíve researched, compensatory misalignments in the spine follow a predictable trend. I've never seen a case of only a crooked neck without a compensatory curve in the thoracic or lumbar spine. Also, this fact is revealing to me: I would not have been able to play football due risk of back or hip injury, but Schaubís degree of misalignment is worse than mine.

Question 4: Why wasnít Schaubís mechanical imbalance a prohibitive factor before 2013? Because Schaub is a hard worker who overcame any mechanical issues during his developmental years. My theory asserts that his mechanics were only unstable, not consistently unreliable. Today, his mechanics are deteriorated because he is planting on a foot that is sending slightly inaccurate messages to his head. That is what this all comes down to: The foot isnít doing exactly what his brain thinks it is, and his coordination can no longer compensate for the imbalanced mechanics.

So there is my theory. It is founded more on my experience and observations than on academic study, so take it for what it's worth. I also look forward to CnD either confirming or shredding it.

Wow. Did you just make that?
Just having some, didn't mean to trash your post that you obviously put some time into. :fostering:

Bringing it forward... maybe Dr CND will comment.

Brisco_County
02-03-2014, 12:47 PM
Just having some, didn't mean to trash your post that you obviously put some time into. :fostering:

Bringing it forward... maybe Dr CND will comment.

No worries, I asked because it was funny. And don't worry about trashing my post -- that's one of the reasons why I posted it. I want it to be critiqued or challenged.

Nitrofish
02-03-2014, 12:55 PM
No worries, I asked because it was funny. And don't worry about trashing my post -- that's one of the reasons why I posted it. I want it to be critiqued or challenged.

Too late, I saw what you posted. I do not "take personal offense any time Schaub is critiqued" Why is it that you all have this obsession with Schaub? You accuse me of being the one with an obsession, or love affair, or whatever ridiculous label you try to pin on me, but I am not the one posting this kind of comedy.

You say in your post you "want it to be critiqued or challenged", but just not by me? WTF?

Brisco_County
02-03-2014, 01:16 PM
Too late, I saw what you posted. I do not "take personal offense any time Schaub is critiqued" Why is it that you all have this obsession with Schaub? You accuse me of being the one with an obsession, or love affair, or whatever ridiculous label you try to pin on me, but I am not the one posting this kind of comedy.

You say in your post you "want it to be critiqued or challenged", but just not by me? WTF?

So you caught my ninja edit. I edited it for two reasons. 1) I realized that I could've misinterpreted your tone and your reasons for critiquing it, and 2) I shouldn't care about your reasons and I should just accept your critique.

Regarding our perceived "obsession" with Schaub: This is a thread about Matt Schaub.

Regarding your sensitivity on the subject: On one hand, it seems that you have a reactionary rejection to any criticism of Schaub. On the other hand, your posts provide a little counterbalance to all the nasty, unfair, and ungrateful posts about Schaub. So maybe I shouldn't contribute to discouraging that, but I would suggest attempting a little objectivity.

Yesterday
02-03-2014, 01:51 PM
I'd rather the Texans go 7-9 without Matt Schaub than 8-8 with Matt Schaub. I just don't enjoy watching him play. At all. Like 32/32 in the league in terms of enjoyment.

Nitrofish
02-03-2014, 01:55 PM
So you caught my ninja edit. I edited it for two reasons. 1) I realized that I could've misinterpreted your tone and your reasons for critiquing it, and 2) I shouldn't care about your reasons and I should just accept your critique.

Regarding our perceived "obsession" with Schaub: This is a thread about Matt Schaub.

Regarding your sensitivity on the subject: On one hand, it seems that you have a reactionary rejection to any criticism of Schaub. On the other hand, your posts provide a little counterbalance to all the nasty, unfair, and ungrateful posts about Schaub. So maybe I shouldn't contribute to discouraging that, but I would suggest attempting a little objectivity.

Great post, but Reactionary reaction? lol

Bro, that's how it works around here. Someone posts their opinion, or theory, and then someone reacts and retorts. It's just that I do not join the mob lynching of Schaub that it seems like I am being reactionary.

I have to ask. Why are my posts not objective, but anyone else' are? Because my post tend to lean towards support of the guy, who you correctly said "provide a little counterbalance to all the nasty, unfair, and ungrateful posts about Schaub"?

The sad thing is, even after he is gone, the same old Schaub bashing that has been going on in here for years will continue unabated. I think your post is fair and thoughtful, but I disagree with your assertion that I am not objective in my post.

Allstar
02-03-2014, 04:03 PM
This is probably the most offseason page on this forum.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2014, 06:47 PM
Didn't know whether here or cap thread so both

From

@evansilva

Here's a rumor connecting Matt Schaub to the #Raiders. Schaub reportedly "has some fans in the organization": rotoworld.com/player/nfl/16/…
4:53pm - 3 Feb 14

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/16/matt-schaub

Lucky
02-03-2014, 08:54 PM
From the link above:

National Football Post's Len Pasquarelli passes along "scuttlebutt" that the Raiders may pursue Matt Schaub once the Texans release him.Schaub's release is a mere formality, as he's owed $11 million in 2014 salary and bonuses and isn't worth half that much. He could command $3-4 million annually on a backup-caliber deal. Per Pasquarelli, Schaub "has some fans in the organization." We hope the Raiders wouldn't be counting on Schaub to start.*Feb 3 - 5:51 PM

Yes, a mere formality sums it up nicely. Still think Schaub's a virtual lock to the Ravens.

Allstar
02-04-2014, 12:52 AM
From the link above:


Yes, a mere formality sums it up nicely. Still think Schaub's a virtual lock to the Ravens.

I'd be surprised if Schaub can't get a job where he can at least compete for a starting spot.

Norg
02-04-2014, 11:57 AM
I betcha prob granturee Schaub will be a starter next year for some other team if he does not stay here


he may be a backup at first but the guy in front of him will suck some how and ol matt will find himself thrust into action

texan_joe
02-04-2014, 12:28 PM
Schaub will definitely be a starter next season. He had a bad season, but until he has another one, 2013 was an aberration. He hasn't been this bad before. He's not clutch and he is not elite, but he is better than at least 1/3 of the starters in the league if he can move past this last season and get to his previous self.

TheIronDuke
02-04-2014, 01:07 PM
Schaub's been regressing since his injury, what makes you think he'll not only get better with age but also that his injury won't be more impactful as he gets older? He's played horrible since the last quarter of 2012.

kiwitexansfan
02-04-2014, 02:18 PM
Schaub's been regressing since his injury, what makes you think he'll not only get better with age but also that his injury won't be more impactful as he gets older? He's played horrible since the last quarter of 2012.

/thread

BullNation4Life
02-04-2014, 03:08 PM
wait! wait! wait!


does this sound familiar to ANYBODY right now...

New HC comes in with lame duck QB and tells McNair, sure I can work with him, ONLY to cut his sorry ass the next year while taking a DE #1 (could happen) overall in the draft that year...

What was the definition of insanity because this is shaping up to look like
deja 'vu all over again. Did I just walk back into 2006?

Matt Schaub does not give you the best chance to win, because he is not a winner, period. Especially coming into a new system that O'Brien is installing.

Cut him, move on and either draft your next QB o trade for one, as long as that sum-mama B never puts on the #8 in a Texans uni I don't give a damn...

I think Marshall Faulk was hitting the ol' bong'o a little hard the day he said this....

Norg
02-04-2014, 04:34 PM
/thread

sometimes these older dudes older then Schaub have there one last hurrahhh


see Kerry Collins who led the titans to the #1 seed one time

kiwitexansfan
02-04-2014, 05:26 PM
sometimes these older dudes older then Schaub have there one last hurrahhh


see Kerry Collins who led the titans to the #1 seed one time

Degenerative injury, he isn't going to get better, just progressively less effective.

His peak performance potential is declining continiously, and his peak performance this year was not starter material.

Vinnie
02-04-2014, 08:58 PM
His last pass as a Texan was an interception. That's not just a current fact, that will be recorded history. He's done here folks, nothing more to see. Turn your post season angst elsewhere. Between cap hits, injuries and down right mediocre play throughout his career, he's done. Gary's project gone wrong. We've seen what happens to "Gary" guys with the new regime, they get axed. It's over, maybe for all of them, TJ & Keenum included. The draft and free agency will be fun!

Bulls on Parade
02-04-2014, 09:04 PM
I'd be surprised if Schaub can't get a job where he can at least compete for a starting spot.
I doubt it. At best I see him signing on with another team to compete for the backup spot. Perhaps the Baltimore Ravens would be a good fit for him. He can backup Joe Flacco and he's already familiar with Gary Kubiak's offense.

infantrycak
02-04-2014, 09:19 PM
I doubt it. At best I see him signing on with another team to compete for the backup spot. Perhaps the Baltimore Ravens would be a good fit for him. He can backup Joe Flacco and he's already familiar with Gary Kubiak's offense.

Yeah and Gary Kubiak and his antiquated offense won't be getting a job either. Oh, wait...

steelbtexan
02-04-2014, 09:29 PM
Schaub will definitely be a starter next season. He had a bad season, but until he has another one, 2013 was an aberration. He hasn't been this bad before. He's not clutch and he is not elite, but he is better than at least 1/3 of the starters in the league if he can move past this last season and get to his previous self.

Tell me more about this 1/3 of the league in 2013?

BullNation4Life
02-05-2014, 09:58 AM
Yeah and Gary Kubiak and his antiquated offense won't be getting a job either. Oh, wait...

I don't remember anybody ever saying that, at least as OC jobs go. In fact Gary is right where he should be, an OC...

I think Gary has far better tools at the QB spot, to work with in Baltimore than he ever did with the Texans. He will have success, Rice will look like what Foster did in Gary's offense. Pitta will be a Pro Bowl TE in Gary's offense...

Gary's offense worked, problem was he was too egotistic and stubborn to change the parts that didn't work and it ultimately got him fired...

Loyal to a fault...

infantrycak
02-05-2014, 11:30 AM
I don't remember anybody ever saying that, at least as OC jobs go. In fact Gary is right where he should be, an OC...

Loyal to a fault...

Your memory is selective. Tons of people said Kubiak and for that matter Shanahan's offense was antiquated around here. Some folks said, no the QB position just cratered this season.

steelbtexan
02-05-2014, 11:36 AM
Your memory is selective. Tons of people said Kubiak and for that matter Shanahan's offense was antiquated around here. Some folks said, no the QB position just cratered this season.

Some said Schaub cratered and Gary needed to change SOME parts of his offense. More deep balls for example. Less 3rd and 15 screens/draws.

Was the bootleg with Schaub scaring defenses? I know they scared me more than defenses. LOL

infantrycak
02-05-2014, 11:42 AM
Some said Schaub cratered and Gary needed to change SOME parts of his offense. More deep balls for example. Less 3rd and 15 screens/draws.

Was the bootleg with Schaub scaring defenses? I know they scared me more than defenses. LOL

I am talking about one particular kind of statement which was made, not re-debating all of Schaub or Kubiak's existence.

Here from our owner:

The NFL has caught up to his outdated offense.

This was not an uncommon opinion as the season progressed.

Nitrofish
02-06-2014, 11:37 PM
Degenerative injury, he isn't going to get better, just progressively less effective.

His peak performance potential is declining continuously, and his peak performance this year was not starter material.

Agree with Cak, and in regards to the degenerative injury... with all due respect to the Doc, this is speculation. If this is true, and I am not saying it isn't, I suspect Schaub will not pass a physical, unless he is being brought in as a backup only, and even then, it would be too risky for a team to invest money in a player they know has a degenerative injury.

What did Doc have to say regarding the Ed Reed injury when it was discovered? Did he nail that one?

Lucky
02-07-2014, 06:31 AM
What did Doc have to say regarding the Ed Reed injury when it was discovered? Did he nail that one?

Yes, he did.

Nitrofish
02-07-2014, 06:34 AM
Yes, he did.

Wow, impressive! I would be interested to read that. Have the link?

HJam72
02-07-2014, 06:36 AM
Yes, he did.

Duh. Dude could tell us right now whether Bridgewater or Manziel will have an injury their rookie year.

Somebody ask him........seriously... :)

Lucky
02-07-2014, 06:56 AM
Wow, impressive! I would be interested to read that. Have the link?

Why not learn to use the search feature available on this forum?

HJam72
02-07-2014, 07:09 AM
Wow, impressive! I would be interested to read that. Have the link?

Yes, here you go: http://www.texanstalk.com

Sorry, just love to be a smarty. :)

TheIronDuke
02-07-2014, 10:25 AM
Why not learn to use the search feature available on this forum?

You got a link for that?

Nitrofish
02-07-2014, 10:31 AM
Why not learn to use the search feature available on this forum?

There's a search function? You're such a helpful moderator.

You got a link for that?

lol

Yes, here you go: http://www.texanstalk.com

Sorry, just love to be a smarty. :)

lol

Double Barrel
02-07-2014, 10:42 AM
I hate this thread. I gives Marshall Faulk way more credit than he deserves.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/Redarkham/1322550069_meanwhile_in_ireland_gag.jpg

JamesBill
02-07-2014, 12:33 PM
I want it to be critiqued or challenged.

I think is one of the funniest I have ever seen on TexansTalk. Pure awesome, well done.

Dishman
02-07-2014, 05:55 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1829824&postcount=525

IF it is a Lisfranc, healing is complicated in patients who sustain this type of injury. The most common complication of the Lisfranc injury is post-traumatic arthritis of the joint. In the medical literature, it is quoted as high as 50% of those having sustained this injury. This post-traumatic arthritis mimics degenerative arthritis, but its course is accelerated because of severe injury to a joint. This can lead to chronic pain in the injured joint, and may necessitate fusion of the joint in order to prevent chronic debilitating pain.

It also ought to be pointed out that even in the cases of isolated midfoot metatarsal fractures, the development of the arthritis and chronic pain can still be a significant long term problem.

CloakNNNdagger
02-08-2014, 11:47 PM
I have always had the theory that Schaub’s biomechanics are inherently imbalanced, and therefore unstable. I base this on the postural misalignment evident in all of his team photos. I’m sure some of you have noticed it too, but I’ve never seen a discussion here on how it could affect his mechanics.

In the pictures below, the yellow lines are a square X and Y axis anchored in the center of the collarbone. The vertical blue line is the diverted angle of the cervical spine (neck) from the Y axis. Halfway through the vertical blue line, there is one vector point where it changes direction back to 0 degrees, indicating a compensatory tilt in the head. The vector point is placed at the base of the nose since that is approximately where the base of the skull meets the spine.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-1-and-2_zps816ed65f.jpg

In figure 1, the horizontal blue line follows the estimated tilt in the collarbone. The tilt is only estimated since the jersey conceals the necessary reference points to track it accurately.

Figure 2 confirms that the misalignment on a younger Schaub to indicate that it has always been present.

Below, the figure on the left illustrates how his neck is tilting, and how the head tilts to compensate. On the right is an example of a neck with a normal vertical angle.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/neck_zps9faf0dd1.jpg

With a neck diverted to that degree, one would expect a compensatory curvature in the thoracic (middle) and lumbar (lower) spine. This often results in a tilting of the collarbone and pelvis, which would cause one arm to drop lower, and one leg to strike the ground harder when running. Below is an example of how a tilted neck is an indication of compensatory misalignments throughout the rest of the skeletal frame. Notice the pelvic tilt from horizontal.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/spine1_zpsb427457b.jpg

Figure 1 indicated that Schaub’s collarbone and shoulders are apparently within a “normal” range of the X axis. Since I could not find any other team photos from mid-torso to compare to figure 1, I used the photo in figure 3 below, then emphasized the negative (black) space in figure 4 to demonstrate how uneven the shoulders hang. Also note differences in the shapes of the negative space around the neck.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/figure-3-and-4_zpsfcc00e1f.jpg

For contrast, let’s look at the alignment of a random teammate, TJ Yates. His neck alignment isn’t perfect, but it’s about the best you could expect from anyone, much less a football player. Considering the daily effects of sitting on the bench, hunching over film study, and lurking on Texans Talk, TJ’s doing pretty good here. This cervical alignment is Texans worthy.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a549/Brandon_Boyle/TJYates_zps04fab733.jpg

Question 1: Assuming that Schaub’s frame is as imbalanced as I’m theorizing, why does that mean his mechanics are unstable? That is because a quarterback throw is a motion of the entire body, much like boxing or baseball pitching. If you have ever taken boxing, you know that a good instructor coaches you on the form of your entire body to achieve an efficient transfer of energy from the planting toe to the fist. Power and accuracy are lost if your mechanics are inefficient.

Question 2: What makes me an expert on biomechanics? Not much. I’m presenting data, and this is my conclusion. I also have spinal misalignment, and my X-rays confirm a tilt in my collarbone and hips. It does not prohibit weight training, but long distance running is painful. Since I notice the imbalance in my own posture, I notice it in other people too.

Question 3: Is it possible that I am projecting my own spinal condition onto Schaub? Possibly, but from what I’ve researched, compensatory misalignments in the spine follow a predictable trend. I've never seen a case of only a crooked neck without a compensatory curve in the thoracic or lumbar spine. Also, this fact is revealing to me: I would not have been able to play football due risk of back or hip injury, but Schaub’s degree of misalignment is worse than mine.

Question 4: Why wasn’t Schaub’s mechanical imbalance a prohibitive factor before 2013? Because Schaub is a hard worker who overcame any mechanical issues during his developmental years. My theory asserts that his mechanics were only unstable, not consistently unreliable. Today, his mechanics are deteriorated because he is planting on a foot that is sending slightly inaccurate messages to his head. That is what this all comes down to: The foot isn’t doing exactly what his brain thinks it is, and his coordination can no longer compensate for the imbalanced mechanics.

So there is my theory. It is founded more on my experience and observations than on academic study, so take it for what it's worth. I also look forward to CnD either confirming or shredding it.

Adult scoliosis is quite common........up to 70% of the population depending on the definition assigned in individual studies. Scoliosis usually begins in the hip/lumbar areas and is compensated as you go up the body (with appearance of asymmetry as you have demonstrated in the shoulders, head and neck regions). The lesser scoliosis cases....~10 degrees are not usually appreciated by most people. The taller the subject, the more exaggerated the visual effect. As it gets closer to 25 degrees, it becomes more apparent. If the scoliosis has not reached 30 degrees by adolescence, it is unlikely to progress in adulthood. Now if we are talking about degenerative scoliosis, which either occurs within the older age group or trauma-induced degenerative scoliosis, it tends to progress at ~ 1 degree per year.

At which point are you usually restricted from playing sports? Usually it is not necessarily dependent on the degree of scoliosis unless grossly pathologic...........it is mostly dependent on the presence or absence of back pain during activities in question.

Nice presentation there, Brisco! Rep coming your way.

Nitrofish
02-09-2014, 04:59 AM
Add Bucky Brooks to the list of people who think "Fixing Schaub" is the best path for the Texans in 2014.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1391629280000/detail

Forward to 8:10 to hear the Bucky Brooks comments, and then comment. But please try to be objective, and not just try to attack Brooks like you have Marshall Faulk's opinion.

thunderkyss
02-09-2014, 07:34 AM
Add Bucky Brooks to the list of people who think "Fixing Schaub" is the best path for the Texans in 2014.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1391629280000/detail

Forward to 8:10 to hear the Bucky Brooks comments, and then comment. But please try to be objective, and not just try to attack Brooks like you have Marshall Faulk's opinion.

Great podcast, thanks for sharing.

As far as Schaub goes, I've never been a Schaub hater. I agree with what he is saying, but his cap number is crippling. I need him to take a big paycut. I'd be ok with putting in some performance based bonuses/accelerators, but his cap number has to come down. If he's not willing to take the cut we need, I've got to let him go.

Lucky
02-09-2014, 09:44 AM
Add Bucky Brooks to the list of people who think "Fixing Schaub" is the best path for the Texans in 2014.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1391629280000/detail

Forward to 8:10 to hear the Bucky Brooks comments, and then comment. But please try to be objective, and not just try to attack Brooks like you have Marshall Faulk's opinion.
We can count on you to scour the interwebs for Pro-Schaub comments.

First, Brooks was pro-Clowney. He felt the best way to "fix" the Texans was to make the defense dominant. And, he has a very good point. Then, he said that Schaub had been a Pro Bowl QB (which he was) and that O'Brien should look at the tape and determine if there's anything left to fix.

Which is fine. But, if he watches the Schaub of late 2012/2013, he would realize that Schaub is not fixable. Which again, brings up the question, what do the Texans do at QB? Later in the podcast, Charles Davis says don't be surprised if the Texans go for Blake Bortles, who looks like a good fit for what O'Brien looks for in a QB.'

So, Brooks never says that Schaub is fixable. Just that if he were, that would be the best path. Who believes that to be true? Matt, his mother, and you. So, the whole notion is based on a false premise.

Nitrofish
02-09-2014, 10:53 AM
We can count on you to scour the interwebs for Pro-Schaub comments.

First, Brooks was pro-Clowney. He felt the best way to "fix" the Texans was to make the defense dominant. And, he has a very good point. Then, he said that Schaub had been a Pro Bowl QB (which he was) and that O'Brien should look at the tape and determine if there's anything left to fix.

Which is fine. But, if he watches the Schaub of late 2012/2013, he would realize that Schaub is not fixable. Which again, brings up the question, what do the Texans do at QB? Later in the podcast, Charles Davis says don't be surprised if the Texans go for Blake Bortles, who looks like a good fit for what O'Brien looks for in a QB.'

So, Brooks never says that Schaub is fixable. Just that if he were, that would be the best path. Who believes that to be true? Matt, his mother, and you. So, the whole notion is based on a false premise.

I knew I could count on you to be the lead on this. I really love how you speak for not only ALL Texans fans, but apparently the entire world in regards to Matt Schaub. I mean this thread alone proves you wrong because of what Marshal Faulk said.

You are also clearly distorting what both I and Brooks said. I never said Schaub was fixable, but I will say it now. He is not as bad as you and others make him out to be. He had a bad half of a season, he has not fallen off the earth. The entire team had a bad season. It was not all on Schaub so get realistic and stop with the pontificating.

Clearly without using the words, both Brooks and Smith are implying that Schaub was recently a Pro Bowl caliber QB, and that the season was an aberration, not a trend, and that at least in Brooks' mind, Schaub is fixable. That it is advisable they fix whatever problem there is with the Veteran Schaub, which would allow them to select Clowney instead of a QB 1:1 which in Brook's opinion is the best way to make the Texans relevant in 2014. You notice they did not even mention Keenum as an option. If he did not think Schaub was an option he would not have said what he did, and he might have said you go with Keenum, or a veteran FA. He was clearly saying he thinks Schaub is serviceable for a quick turn around with the selection of Clowney instead of a Rookie QB. Why else mention Schaub at all?

"I'm going to get Jadeveon Clowney, I'm going to make sure that my defense is dominant. If we talk about that team being a top 5 defense, I want to put it at another level where that defense alone can win games, because the way that I look at it in the NFL, running game and the defense will get you to 8 or 9 wins, just on that.

A Good QB will take you to 11 or 12, and if you have a really good QB, you can win the deal. So, Matt Schaub was a Pro Bowl QB a few years ago, if I'm Bill O'Brien, I want to investigate and look at all the tapes and see if there is something I can fix in the established veteran, to allow him to play at a high level, because he has skins on the wall, he's played a ton of games in the NFL, he doesn't need an adjustment period to play well.

But if I can fortify that defense and make sure my running game is strong, that's the quickest way for my team The Houston Texans to get back to the top of the AFC south" -Bucky Brooks

The problem with your comments are that you believe that the entire planet thinks Schaub is done, not fixable, with the exception of Me, Matt and his Mom. That kind of Dogmatic talk reveals a lot about you and why you are so anal when it comes to discussions regarding Matt Schaub. Clearly guys like Marshall Faulk, and now Bucky Brooks disagree with you, and darn it, that just pisses you off doesn't it? Those guys are just crazy, and they have some agenda, right? I mean they should be talking about Keenum, or Manziel, not that noodle armed, washed up Schaub, right?

But yea, keep trying to put labels on me though, it really helps your argument and credibility.

Lucky
02-09-2014, 11:37 AM
I
if I'm Bill O'Brien, I want to investigate and look at all the tapes and see if there is something I can fix in the established veteran, to allow him to play at a high level, because he has skins on the wall, he's played a ton of games in the NFL, he doesn't need an adjustment period to play well.

The problem with your comments are that you believe that the entire planet thinks Schaub is done, not fixable, with the exception of Me, Matt and his Mom. That kind of Dogmatic talk reveals a lot about you and why you are so anal when it comes to discussions regarding Matt Schaub. Clearly guys like Marshall Faulk, and now Bucky Brooks disagree with you
Brooks never said that Schaub was fixable, but it should be investigated. "I want to investigate...." tells me he hasn't seen enough of Schaub recently. It hasn't been a 1/2 season, either. Schaub has thrown 13 TDs vs 19 INTs over the past 16 games. I'm pretty sure myself, and most of the fans on this forum have watched a hellofalot more of Matt Schaub and the Texans than Faulk or Brooks. We see that it is a trend and not an aberration that Schaub has declined to the point that he is no longer a winning QB (which he once was).

As far as being "anal" concerning Schaub, 144 or your 374 total posts contain the word "Schaub". It's pretty well known who is anal about what here.

steelbtexan
02-09-2014, 11:50 AM
Add Bucky Brooks to the list of people who think "Fixing Schaub" is the best path for the Texans in 2014.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1391629280000/detail

Forward to 8:10 to hear the Bucky Brooks comments, and then comment. But please try to be objective, and not just try to attack Brooks like you have Marshall Faulk's opinion.

I hate that Schaub got hurt. I actually thought he was good enough to win a SB in Houston. That ship has sailed. Wonder what it would take for Faulk/Brooks to think Schaub wasn't the best option for the Texans? 16 pick 6's?

infantrycak
02-09-2014, 11:57 AM
Brooks never said that Schaub was fixable, but it should be investigated. "I want to investigate...." tells me he hasn't seen enough of Schaub recently. It hasn't been a 1/2 season, either. Schaub has thrown 13 TDs vs 19 INTs over the past 16 games. I'm pretty sure myself, and most of the fans on this forum have watched a hellofalot more of Matt Schaub and the Texans than Faulk or Brooks. We see that it is a trend and not an aberration that Schaub has declined to the point that he is no longer a winning QB (which he once was).

Yup. I've spent plenty of time knocking down unwarranted or overblown attacks on Schaub over the years, but it has become clear he is no longer that QB. He's still capable of producing brief stretches of high level play and is better than some of the ridiculous alternatives thrown around but as a regular starter for the Texans his time has passed. I think he may get another shot to start elsewhere but will never be the pre-injury QB he was. As a backup he will be one of the best around. Bottom line he is a desperation only option in Houston.

Nitrofish
02-09-2014, 12:06 PM
Brooks never said that Schaub was fixable, but it should be investigated. "I want to investigate...." tells me he hasn't seen enough of Schaub recently. It hasn't been a 1/2 season, either. Schaub has thrown 13 TDs vs 19 INTs over the past 16 games. I'm pretty sure myself, and most of the fans on this forum have watched a hellofalot more of Matt Schaub and the Texans than Faulk or Brooks. We see that it is a trend and not an aberration that Schaub has declined to the point that he is no longer a winning QB (which he once was).

As far as being "anal" concerning Schaub, 144 or your 374 total posts contain the word "Schaub". It's pretty well known who is anal about what here.

The fact that you would look that up shows who's anal, lol. And as a reminder, I am a reactionary remember, so if indeed that is true, then I am only reacting to some dribble some other Schaub hater spewed, which I only do when the posts get really ridiculous.

So you would not look up the link for that post where Doc predicts Ed Reeds injury to be career ending, but you will look up how many times the word Schaub is mentioned in my posts? Bwahahahahahaha!

Did you also look up how many times the same word is mentioned in your posts? I mean this is a Texans message board, and Schaub has been the starting QB for the team since 2007, so I would wager his name has been mentioned a lot, wouldn't you? Especially when he played bad. I would even be bold enough to wager in a higher percentage in haters posts, than my own.

This is comedy gold Lucky!

BullNation4Life
02-09-2014, 12:18 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, hell it happens twice a year so I am due, wasn't this EXACT same topic discussed when Kubiak came in, EVERYBODY said that he could fix Carr and that all the Texans needed was a better defense....


Explain to me again how THAT scenario turned out in the end...


ALL ties need to be cut and move on...

Nitrofish
02-09-2014, 12:27 PM
I hate that Schaub got hurt. I actually thought he was good enough to win a SB in Houston. That ship has sailed. Wonder what it would take for Faulk/Brooks to think Schaub wasn't the best option for the Texans? 16 pick 6's?

Don't be so melodramatic. I think had he been re-inserted into the starting lineup after he had healed from his injury, and threw one or two more pick 6's, it would have been enough to say he has lost it for this season, but to extrapolate that into the rest of last season, and even worse what you are doing now which is implying Schaub will continue to throw pick 6's the rest of his career is laughable. For all any of us know, he could have turned it around last season had he been allowed to play though it.

I do not believe these analysts are turning a blind eye to the facts, but I do believe some of you fans have your blinders on, and Vince Lombardi himself could rise from the grave and say Schaub was the Texans best chance for the Texans to win in 2014, and you would all argue "yea but Lombardi is dead, and the NFL is different now, blaa, blaa, blaa"

Same crap you did, and some are still doing with Keenum. "oh Keenum did not get a fair chance" "oh the team had already quit" blaa, blaa, blaa. Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?

All of these complex speculative explanations as to why Schaub had a bad year, or why you think he is finished as a player are all just theater to entertain yourselves and feel like you have some kind of 3rd eye and can see deeper into the game of football and it's players than other people can. A belief that your perceptions are correct, but when challenged by scouts, former players, current players, etc, you resort to name calling, and labeling in an effort to regain some of that imaginary power you have over the football realm. It's just like people who call other people a racist in an effort to label that person as bad, and therefore invalidate all of their comments even though the person was not exhibiting racist behavior or language.

You are laying at my feet what two former players are saying, and trying to make it out like I put them up to this, just to make you look bad. I am not directing these comments at you steelbtexan, just the first paragraph. The rest of this rant is aimed at those who's posts regarding Schaub are unreasonably harsh, and unrealistic, almost cartoon like, which sadly you have been guilty of at times.

Nitrofish
02-09-2014, 12:47 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, hell it happens twice a year so I am due, wasn't this EXACT same topic discussed when Kubiak came in, EVERYBODY said that he could fix Carr and that all the Texans needed was a better defense....


Explain to me again how THAT scenario turned out in the end...


ALL ties need to be cut and move on...


I hear what you are saying, and I have even echoed the same words, yet it still seems to be an attack on me for creating this thread, rather than any of you discounting what Faulk and Brooks are saying. What I am hearing is that those guys do not watch as much Texans football as some of you, so therefor their comments are invalid. Not a very strong argument IMHO.

And I would be willing to bet, as the draft draws near, even more analysts and talking heads will agree with Faulk and Brooks. They will say that the Texans need to take Clowney, and fill other needs first and that Schaub is serviceable for one more year if he takes a pay cut.

steelbtexan
02-09-2014, 01:24 PM
Don't be so melodramatic. I think had he been re-inserted into the starting lineup after he had healed from his injury, and threw one or two more pick 6's, it would have been enough to say he has lost it for this season, but to extrapolate that into the rest of last season, and even worse what you are doing now which is implying Schaub will continue to throw pick 6's the rest of his career is laughable. For all any of us know, he could have turned it around last season had he been allowed to play though it.

I do not believe these analysts are turning a blind eye to the facts, but I do believe some of you fans have your blinders on, and Vince Lombardi himself could rise from the grave and say Schaub was the Texans best chance for the Texans to win in 2014, and you would all argue "yea but Lombardi is dead, and the NFL is different now, blaa, blaa, blaa"

Same crap you did, and some are still doing with Keenum. "oh Keenum did not get a fair chance" "oh the team had already quit" blaa, blaa, blaa. Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?

All of these complex speculative explanations as to why Schaub had a bad year, or why you think he is finished as a player are all just theater to entertain yourselves and feel like you have some kind of 3rd eye and can see deeper into the game of football and it's players than other people can. A belief that your perceptions are correct, but when challenged by scouts, former players, current players, etc, you resort to name calling, and labeling in an effort to regain some of that imaginary power you have over the football realm. It's just like people who call other people a racist in an effort to label that person as bad, and therefore invalidate all of their comments even though the person was not exhibiting racist behavior or language.

You are laying at my feet what two former players are saying, and trying to make it out like I put them up to this, just to make you look bad. I am not directing these comments at you steelbtexan, just the first paragraph. The rest of this rant is aimed at those who's posts regarding Schaub are unreasonably harsh, and unrealistic, almost cartoon like, which sadly you have been guilty of at times.

This post is such total BS. I couldn't even read all of it before responding. All I can say is. 1. YOU MUST HAVE ME CONFUSED WITH OTHER POSTERS. 2. Your blind loyalty to Schaub knows no bounds. 3. If you've seen Schaub's play for the last yr and a half, can you atleast admit his play has fallen off and if so,have you considered why this may have happened?

IDEXAN
02-09-2014, 01:28 PM
I hear what you are saying, and I have even echoed the same words, yet it still seems to be an attack on me for creating this thread, rather than any of you discounting what Faulk and Brooks are saying. What I am hearing is that those guys do not watch as much Texans football as some of you, so therefor their comments are invalid. Not a very strong argument IMHO.

And I would be willing to bet, as the draft draws near, even more analysts and talking heads will agree with Faulk and Brooks. They will say that the Texans need to take Clowney, and fill other needs first and that Schaub is serviceable for one more year if he takes a pay cut.
I expect Scahub to be starting for an NFL team in the fall of 2014, but just not this one, even if he had the chance which I highly doubt he will.

TexansSeminole
02-09-2014, 01:30 PM
This post is such total BS. I couldn't even read all of it before responding. All I can say is. 1. YOU MUST HAVE ME CONFUSED WITH OTHER POSTERS. 2. Your blind loyalty to Schaub knows no bounds. 3. If you've seen Schaub's play for the last yr and a half, can you atleast admit his play has fallen off and if so,have you considered why this may have happened?

All of these complex speculative explanations as to why Schaub had a bad year, or why you think he is finished as a player are all just theater to entertain yourselves and feel like you have some kind of 3rd eye and can see deeper into the game of football and it's players than other people can.

Particularly this part. As if anyone needs complex speculation in order to determine that Schaub had a poor year and a half. This is a strange thought process.

Nitrofish
02-09-2014, 01:44 PM
This post is such total BS. I couldn't even read all of it before responding. All I can say is. 1. YOU MUST HAVE ME CONFUSED WITH OTHER POSTERS. 2. Your blind loyalty to Schaub knows no bounds. 3. If you've seen Schaub's play for the last yr and a half, can you atleast admit his play has fallen off and if so,have you considered why this may have happened?

Admitting that you did not read the entire post before responding says a lot. Yes I have seen the play, and yes I agree his play has fallen off, but not because he is a washed up has been who will never play another down in the NFL, but rather for many reasons, including but not limited to Line play. Statistics show Schaub was the most pressured QB in the league up until he got the hook. Can you at least admit that?

The Schaub's perceived decline happens to coincide with the exit of Brisiel and Winston which some of you will say were cap casualties, but the stellar play of the defense covered that up. When the defense fell off, the line play was more of a problem because the Texans were now not able to hold a lead. Can you at least acknowledge that?

The loss of both starting TE's (Schaub favorite targets aside from AJ) forced Kubiak to distribute those passes elsewhere, which lead to predictable plays, or routes in certain down and distance situations that DB 's, and LB's were now sitting on, can you at least admit that?

Stop piling on as if it was all Schaub's fault the season went the way it did, because you could have any elite QB back there last season, and the outcome would have most likely been the same with all of the terrible line play, key injuries, and lack of depth. Can you at least admit that?

According to you guys, everything is MS fault, and nothing that has ever been positive was because of him. It was always in spite of him in your eyes. That kind of bias shows you fail to realize that it is a team sport, and the Texans as a team failed last year. It was not like the rest of the team was playing lights out and Schaub just kept screwing it all up. Can you at least admit that?

Nitrofish
02-09-2014, 02:02 PM
Particularly this part. As if anyone needs complex speculation in order to determine that Schaub had a poor year and a half. This is a strange thought process.

You miss the point. The point is we are accepting complicated theories to explain Schaub's play falling off due to a degenerative injury that nobody else is talking about, we have board members posting diagrams of team photos suggesting Schaub's got Scoliosis or other medical problems that have always been there, or only recently started to cause poor play, even though Schaub has been a Pro Bowler and led the league in passing one season. Did it ever occur to anyone that he just stands that way when he is photographed? As the poster said, "Perhaps I am projecting my afflictions on Schaub" which I think is probably true.

The point is the simplest answer us usually the right one. The simple answer is people have bad seasons. It happens to everyone. The pick 6's just amplify the perception that something is wrong with Schaub rather than a number of things are wrong with the Texans as a team. It does not mean Schaub has hit the wall, and is finished, no matter how badly you want that to be true.

Most of you agree the play calling was predictable, yet you place the blame for the Pick 6's squarely on Schaub's shoulders, not the coach for calling that play which was obviously a scouted tendency of Kubiak's.

So if Schaub does the right thing and sees the play is dead and falls down losing as few yards as possible you boo him. If Keenum comes in and runs around and loses 20 yards on a sack on the same play, you make excuses and say "At least he was trying to extend the play".

thunderkyss
02-09-2014, 02:30 PM
I hate that Schaub got hurt. I actually thought he was good enough to win a SB in Houston. That ship has sailed. Wonder what it would take for Faulk/Brooks to think Schaub wasn't the best option for the Texans? 16 pick 6's?

Just saying that Schaub is the quickest way, or even our best bet, does not mean we shouldn't draft a QB in the first or second round. To me, it's just like wanting to bring a veteran in & drafting a 1st round QB anyway.... Schaub just happens to already be here.

There's not a lot out there in FA as far as QBs go & Schaub may actually be the best of the bunch... stat, wins, I think he is. The better the QB my first rounder has to beat out for the job, the better for us.

Now, when one of these fools say he's worth a $14M cap hit... then I'll have a problem.

steelbtexan
02-09-2014, 02:56 PM
Admitting that you did not read the entire post before responding says a lot. Yes I have seen the play, and yes I agree his play has fallen off, but not because he is a washed up has been who will never play another down in the NFL, but rather for many reasons, including but not limited to Line play. Statistics show Schaub was the most pressured QB in the league up until he got the hook. Can you at least admit that?

The Schaub's perceived decline happens to coincide with the exit of Brisiel and Winston which some of you will say were cap casualties, but the stellar play of the defense covered that up. When the defense fell off, the line play was more of a problem because the Texans were now not able to hold a lead. Can you at least acknowledge that?

The loss of both starting TE's (Schaub favorite targets aside from AJ) forced Kubiak to distribute those passes elsewhere, which lead to predictable plays, or routes in certain down and distance situations that DB 's, and LB's were now sitting on, can you at least admit that?

Stop piling on as if it was all Schaub's fault the season went the way it did, because you could have any elite QB back there last season, and the outcome would have most likely been the same with all of the terrible line play, key injuries, and lack of depth. Can you at least admit that?

According to you guys, everything is MS fault, and nothing that has ever been positive was because of him. It was always in spite of him in your eyes. That kind of bias shows you fail to realize that it is a team sport, and the Texans as a team failed last year. It was not like the rest of the team was playing lights out and Schaub just kept screwing it all up. Can you at least admit that?

Wrong, this is not all Schaub's fault. He's has a degenerative foot injury that gets worse as the season goes on. It costs him 1. Mobility, which he lacked to begin with. 2. His greatest quality, accuracy.

You cant admit what C-N-D predicted would happened, actually happened. The ability to admit that you are wrong is a trait some people can never come to grips with. Are you that guy?

BTW, I'm not a Keenum fan. I think he's a good backup QB. Not a 16 game starter. Certainly not a franchise QB. So you must have me mixed up with somebody else. Did I want to see Keenum play instead of Schaub last yr? Yes, it was time to move on from Schaub and find out if Keenum was the future. Not understanding this and following BoB's directions is a big reason Gary got fired when he did. IMHO

Tell me how did Brady do without Gronk/Hernandez/Welker and a beat up OL last yr?

Lucky
02-09-2014, 03:06 PM
So you would not look up the link for that post where Doc predicts Ed Reeds injury to be career ending, but you will look up how many times the word Schaub is mentioned in my posts? Bwahahahahahaha!

I could easily. As could you. Which is why I won't.

Correct me if I am wrong, hell it happens twice a year so I am due, wasn't this EXACT same topic discussed when Kubiak came in, EVERYBODY said that he could fix Carr and that all the Texans needed was a better defense....
I was absolutely guilty of that. That was a year wasted.

Statistics show Schaub was the most pressured QB in the league up until he got the hook. Can you at least admit that?
Link?

You miss the point. The point is we are accepting complicated theories to explain Schaub's play falling off due to a degenerative injury that nobody else is talking about...
And by "nobody" you mean Marshall Faulk and Bucky Brooks? The people who follow the team more closely don't count.

149 of 379. 39% of your posts. And rising.

thunderkyss
02-09-2014, 03:36 PM
And by "nobody" you mean Marshall Faulk and Bucky Brooks? The people who follow the team more closely don't count.


Has anyone mentioned Schaub's injury outside of Texanstalk.com?

I listen to 610 & 790 quite a bit & have never heard it come up... at all.

Lucky
02-09-2014, 04:44 PM
Has anyone mentioned Schaub's injury outside of Texanstalk.com?

I listen to 610 & 790 quite a bit & have never heard it come up... at all.

I don't get get much chance to listen to the radio, but 610 usually sucks up to the Texans. I may have heard Zierlein discuss the injury as it relates to Schaubs regression. But does that justify the position that Schaub is not the same QB post injury? Doesn't seem to require a lot of experienced analysis to come to that conclusion.

HJam72
02-09-2014, 04:56 PM
The thing about Schaub's ankle injury to me is that, yes, in 2012 it seemed to show up and hinder his play late in the season, as would seem to be expected. However, in 2013 Schaub began to have severe performance problems (pick-6s) very early in the season for someone whose problems are supposed to be caused by an ankle that is expected to give him problems starting around week 12 and beyond. It doesn't seem to me that it was his ankle causing the problems in 2013. Seems more like he just repeatedly made bad choices to try and force throws on 3rd down late in games.

infantrycak
02-09-2014, 05:23 PM
The thing about Schaub's ankle injury to me is that, yes, in 2012 it seemed to show up and hinder his play late in the season, as would seem to be expected. However, in 2013 Schaub began to have severe performance problems (pick-6s) very early in the season for someone whose problems are supposed to be caused by an ankle that is expected to give him problems starting around week 12 and beyond. It doesn't seem to me that it was his ankle causing the problems in 2013. Seems more like he just repeatedly made bad choices to try and force throws on 3rd down late in games.

It was a lis franc foot injury. The prognosis was essentially as follows, with the upward slopes being the offseasons and downward, during the season so progressive loss during AND from season to season.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.607995978479898220&pid=1.7

The bad decision making may have been due to no longer having confidence in all his throws due to inability to step into throws consistently and therefore going to less desirable options.

HJam72
02-09-2014, 05:40 PM
Yeah, the foot, not the ankle.

So, there's no guarantee that it heals completely in the offseason. That's what I didn't realize.

thunderkyss
02-09-2014, 06:55 PM
I don't get get much chance to listen to the radio, but 610 usually sucks up to the Texans. I may have heard Zierlein discuss the injury as it relates to Schaubs regression. But does that justify the position that Schaub is not the same QB post injury? Doesn't seem to require a lot of experienced analysis to come to that conclusion.

I'm not questioning that. You suggested that "people" were talking about it.

You miss the point. The point is we are accepting complicated theories to explain Schaub's play falling off due to a degenerative injury that nobody else is talking about...

And by "nobody" you mean Marshall Faulk and Bucky Brooks? The people who follow the team more closely don't count.


"Officially" his foot is not an issue.

The thing about Schaub's ankle injury to me is that, yes, in 2012 it seemed to show up and hinder his play late in the season, as would seem to be expected. However, in 2013 Schaub began to have severe performance problems (pick-6s) very early in the season for someone whose problems are supposed to be caused by an ankle that is expected to give him problems starting around week 12 and beyond. It doesn't seem to me that it was his ankle causing the problems in 2013. Seems more like he just repeatedly made bad choices to try and force throws on 3rd down late in games.

To me it falls in-line with Schaub trying to do "too much" with all the talk from McNair, Kubiak, & even Smith in the offseason, I thought it was pretty clear they blamed Schaub's play for our December breakdown, & post season failure.

So you have Schaub trying to be a play-maker, instead of taking what the defense gives him. That pick six in the Seattle game, had nothing to do with a bum foot, it was a poor decision to try to give OD a chance to make a play.

Then, if I were one of the conspiracists, I would remind you that he didn't partcipate in any off-season activities prior to the 2012 season. In 2013, he did... so instead of starting the clock in August/September, you should start in April/May.

infantrycak
02-09-2014, 07:25 PM
So you have Schaub trying to be a play-maker, instead of taking what the defense gives him. That pick six in the Seattle game, had nothing to do with a bum foot, it was a poor decision to try to give OD a chance to make a play.

Nobody is blaming ALL Schaub's INTs or problems on his foot. We're blaming the increased INT rate, less attempts downfield, lowered accuracy, etc. on his foot. And it is the opposite of trying to do too much to be a playmaker. It is very stark that it is two different QBs:

Pre-injury (2011): 5.1% TDs, 2.1% Ints, 8.5 ypa, 11% of att. 21+ yds in air.
Post-injury: 3.5% TDs, 2.9% Ints, 7.0 ypa, 6.7% of att. 21+ yds in air.

Nitrofish
02-10-2014, 04:14 AM
I don't get get much chance to listen to the radio, but 610 usually sucks up to the Texans. I may have heard Zierlein discuss the injury as it relates to Schaubs regression. But does that justify the position that Schaub is not the same QB post injury? Doesn't seem to require a lot of experienced analysis to come to that conclusion.

You always have an excuse, and never admit that it is odd that it appears only people on this board are discussing the foot injury as a degenerative problem that is causing his performance to fall off. If it does not require experienced analysis, then why are you guys the only ones coming to that conclusion?

Just saying that Schaub is the quickest way, or even our best bet, does not mean we shouldn't draft a QB in the first or second round. To me, it's just like wanting to bring a veteran in & drafting a 1st round QB anyway.... Schaub just happens to already be here.

There's not a lot out there in FA as far as QBs go & Schaub may actually be the best of the bunch... stat, wins, I think he is. The better the QB my first rounder has to beat out for the job, the better for us.

Now, when one of these fools say he's worth a $14M cap hit... then I'll have a problem.

Excellent post. It is the essence of what Faulk and Brooks are trying to say. The problem comes in when the Anti Schaub (Hey there's another one for you to count Lucky. It's good to have a hobby) crowd ignore those things and start in with the foot injury stuff, etc, etc.

Wrong, this is not all Schaub's fault. He's has a degenerative foot injury that gets worse as the season goes on. It costs him 1. Mobility, which he lacked to begin with. 2. His greatest quality, accuracy.

You cant admit what C-N-D predicted would happened, actually happened. The ability to admit that you are wrong is a trait some people can never come to grips with. Are you that guy?

BTW, I'm not a Keenum fan. I think he's a good backup QB. Not a 16 game starter. Certainly not a franchise QB. So you must have me mixed up with somebody else. Did I want to see Keenum play instead of Schaub last yr? Yes, it was time to move on from Schaub and find out if Keenum was the future. Not understanding this and following BoB's directions is a big reason Gary got fired when he did. IMHO

Tell me how did Brady do without Gronk/Hernandez/Welker and a beat up OL last yr?

I find it amusing that you would use one of the best QB's of all time to try to compare to Schaub, (One more for you Lucky) but I will play along.

Tom Brady 2013

Worst completion % since 2003 (60.5%)
Fewest TD's since 2006 (25)
Fewest completions since 2010 (380)
Fewest yards average since 2006 (6.9)
Most sacks since 2001 (40!)
Most sack yardage EVER! (256)
Most fumbles since 2006 (9)
Most fumbles lost since 2007 (3)


So how would you say Brady did without Gronk/Hernandez/Welker and a beat up OL last yr?

I could easily. As could you. Which is why I won't.


I was absolutely guilty of that. That was a year wasted.


Link?


And by "nobody" you mean Marshall Faulk and Bucky Brooks? The people who follow the team more closely don't count.

149 of 379. 39% of your posts. And rising.

Link? You should learn to use the Interweb's search function. See your answer in bold.

No, by nobody I mean nobody. Especially nobody with the credentials to do so besides message board cowboys who think because they watch a lot of Texans football, they have more insight than someone who actually played and work for the NFL.

I want to know how you have determined how much Texans football Faulk and Brooks watch? I watch almost every game of the season, and not just Texans games. Does that mean I am a Ravens, Cardinals, or Panthers expert? No. I know you might have a hard time understanding what I am about to say, but here goes anyway. The Majority opinion is not always right.

What does posting how many of my posts contain the word Schaub have to do with this thread and the topic at hand? Is that your feeble attempt to discredit me since you don't have anything of substance to say? I like it it. Keep doing it. You make me feel like Justin Beiber with all of this attention. Weeeeeeeeeeeeee! :spin:

I'm not questioning that. You suggested that "people" were talking about it.


"Officially" his foot is not an issue.

To me it falls in-line with Schaub trying to do "too much" with all the talk from McNair, Kubiak, & even Smith in the offseason, I thought it was pretty clear they blamed Schaub's play for our December breakdown, & post season failure.

So you have Schaub trying to be a play-maker, instead of taking what the defense gives him. That pick six in the Seattle game, had nothing to do with a bum foot, it was a poor decision to try to give OD a chance to make a play.

Then, if I were one of the conspiracists, I would remind you that he didn't partcipate in any off-season activities prior to the 2012 season. In 2013, he did... so instead of starting the clock in August/September, you should start in April/May.

Not an issue with anyone but some Texans Message Board warriors. Luckily they have an in house doc to explain things to them, unlike anyone in the NFL who are more into guess work, and just reading press clippings, or watching video highlights to get their information. I mean why would the Texans own doctors, and physical therapists pass any pertinent injury information along to the management, or ownership? Must be a conspiracy to hide Schaub's true status from the rest of the world.

Nobody is blaming ALL Schaub's INTs or problems on his foot. We're blaming the increased INT rate, less attempts downfield, lowered accuracy, etc. on his foot. And it is the opposite of trying to do too much to be a playmaker. It is very stark that it is two different QBs:

Pre-injury (2011): 5.1% TDs, 2.1% Ints, 8.5 ypa, 11% of att. 21+ yds in air.
Post-injury: 3.5% TDs, 2.9% Ints, 7.0 ypa, 6.7% of att. 21+ yds in air.

Actually Cak, Schaub's 2012 accuracy was better than it had been since 2009, which was his best year ever in terms of completion %.

Do your number account for the fact that Schaub only started 8 games, and played partially in 10 in 2013? That would make a big difference in the way those number look.

Placing the blame on his foot is where I disagree. I believe his slippage in those areas are due more to facing more pressure than ever before, because of the porous right side of the line, and line play overall. Kind of hard to have time to throw down field when someone is in your face within a second or two. Kubiak knew this and his adjustment was to shorten up the throws, and that led to defenses sitting on routes and more INT's. Add to that the loss of Dreesen who was a major contributor in the short passing game the previous season and you see the results.

Itís a line that has never really recovered from the loss of Eric Winston and Mike Brisiel, plain and simple. This IMHO is the biggest factor in Schaub's regression, not his foot injury.

For an example of bad line play, by week 11 of 2013, Derek Newton alone had allowed four sacks, six hits, and 26 hurries along with eight penalties. Can you say "Disaster?"

In the game vs. Tampa Bay when Schaub was injured late in the 2nd quarter, not only did Schaub finish the game after he was injured, the Texans won the game. Schaub only threw 3 more passes after the injury, but that had little to do with injury, and more to do with how the running game was performing and protecting the lead. Moving around even when just handing the ball off still puts a lot of stress on a foot, let alone a broken one.

Schaub was 11/15 (73.3%) for 242 Yards (16.1 Avg), 2 TD's, 0 INT's and only 1 sack for 7 yards giving him a 154.9 rating. Are you really saying that after surgically repairing the foot, and months of rehab, that he is going to play worse than the day he actually suffered the injury?

It is hard for me to believe that the injury causes him more pain today, than it did the day the injury occurred. I will concede that the injury may have sapped some of his already limited mobility, but a mobile QB was never part of the Texans success anyway. It was when the protection held up, and Matt delivered the ball. Protect the QB like they are getting paid to do, and he will get the job done. Who looked better against the Seahawks D, Schaub, or Manning? I suppose that first half was just luck right? It's my opinion the Texans would have gone on to win that game regardless of the pick 6 if the D had held up.

I agree with TK's assessment regarding trying to do too much as well, and think that also factors into Schaub's drop off far more than his foot injury from 2011.

Having said all of that, I would be as shocked as any of you, if Schaub was retained, and ever played a down for the Texans again. Are we having fun yet?

Ok Lucky, what's my total up to now?

Lucky
02-10-2014, 07:04 AM
?

Ok Lucky, what's my total up to now?

150 of 380. 39.5%. At least you're consistent.

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 07:51 AM
. It was when the protection held up, and Matt delivered the ball. Protect the QB like they are getting paid to do, and he will get the job done. Who looked better against the Seahawks D, Schaub, or Manning? I suppose that first half was just luck right? It's my opinion the Texans would have gone on to win that game regardless of the pick 6 if the D had held up.


I was more upset about the defense giving up two 80 yard drives in the second half for TDs in that game than the pick 6. Yeah, Schaub screwed the pooch & gave them 6 points. But to give up just one 80 yard drive is worse for the "number 1 defense" especially in passing yards. It's not like Marshawn Lynch ran all over us.

But... Schaub had two opportunities to put points on the board & win the game.

Didn't do it. Can't blame the defense for that. The ball was in his hand & he had opportunity. I don't care for Andrew Luck, but I think he would have shined in that situation.

Same team... just add Luck & we win that game. Heck, throw Keenum in there cold & we probably win that game.

infantrycak
02-10-2014, 08:37 AM
You always have an excuse, and never admit that it is odd that it appears only people on this board are discussing the foot injury as a degenerative problem that is causing his performance to fall off. If it does not require experienced analysis, then why are you guys the only ones coming to that conclusion?

It doesn't require experienced analysis to see the fall off in performance. The prognosis is something CnD nailed at the time of the injury as a potential result and it has since come to pass.

Nationally, the analysts rarely talk about injuries in this kind of detail but you do hear about it with other players and even the same injury. MJD is "healed" and look at his performance post lis franc.

Not an issue with anyone but some Texans Message Board warriors. Luckily they have an in house doc to explain things to them, unlike anyone in the NFL who are more into guess work, and just reading press clippings, or watching video highlights to get their information. I mean why would the Texans own doctors, and physical therapists pass any pertinent injury information along to the management, or ownership? Must be a conspiracy to hide Schaub's true status from the rest of the world.

You and TK are confusing cleared to play and healed with no effect. Frankly this is beyond argument - injuries often completely heal and players are cleared to play and there are still effects of the injury. Ever heard the phrase "he's lost a step after his knee injury" or "he's not as sideline to sideline..." - of course you have. Any doctor will tell you lots of these injuries have long term degenerative effects even after completely healed. To argue otherwise is just lying. What doc described was those types of changes are particularly bad with lis franc injuries.

Actually Cak, Schaub's 2012 accuracy was better than it had been since 2009, which was his best year ever in terms of completion %.

No, it wasn't. His completion % remained high but that isn't the same thing. He was throwing shorter which should have led to an increased completion % with the same accuracy. It did not. Also, less accurate does not mean uncatchable. I am sure OD would have caught the pass Sherman picked if Sherman hadn't been there. That doesn't mean the ball was accurate. It wasn't. If it had been thrown better Sherman wouldn't have made the play on the ball. Now watch this, it's called balance. OD also could have been more aggressive stepping back into the ball and prevented the INT. That would not however have made the ball more accurate.

Do your number account for the fact that Schaub only started 8 games, and played partially in 10 in 2013? That would make a big difference in the way those number look.

Yes those numbers account for that so no there would be no difference. Nothing there is on a per game basis. They are all on a per attempt basis.

Placing the blame on his foot is where I disagree. I believe his slippage in those areas are due more to facing more pressure than ever before, because of the porous right side of the line, and line play overall.

Doesn't fly. Schaub went from being one of the top QBs in the league when blitzed to one of the worst.

It is hard for me to believe that the injury causes him more pain today, than it did the day the injury occurred.

That is just ignorance of physiology and psychology. The day an injury occurs your body and mind have not had a chance to build up compensatory habits. Guts will get you through the pain and your mind is still viewing the field and your options as if the injury has not occurred. Months of discomfort leads to different muscle use to avoid the pain or discomfort and to compensate for any loss of strength by using nearby muscle groups. This is a very frequent phenomenon and one by the way which CnD has correctly predicted in other players both on the Texans and around the league.

I agree with TK's assessment regarding trying to do too much as well, and think that also factors into Schaub's drop off far more than his foot injury from 2011.

Hitch your wagon to TK's all you want. He's a duck paddling upstream while wearing a pig suit.

steelbtexan
02-10-2014, 09:00 AM
Yeah, the foot, not the ankle.

So, there's no guarantee that it heals completely in the offseason. That's what I didn't realize.

It will never heal.

It's a degenerative condition.

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 09:00 AM
You and TK are confusing cleared to play and healed with no effect. Frankly this is beyond argument - injuries often completely heal and players are cleared to play and there are still effects of the injury. Ever heard the phrase "he's lost a step after his knee injury" or "he's not as sideline to sideline..." - of course you have. Any doctor will tell you lots of these injuries have long term degenerative effects even after completely healed. To argue otherwise is just lying. What doc described was those types of changes are particularly bad with lis franc injuries.


No, I'm not confusing anything. Yes I was expecting the degenerative effects CnD spoke of. I looked for them. Didn't see them.

I don't think he lost any zip in his throws. There wasn't a lot to begin with & what we've seen since does not look markedly off.

I was expecting to see him not transfer his weight to his throwing foot, or not push off with his back foot.... he has good hip & shoulder rotation, his feet look fine during his throws.

Not once did I see him favor any foot, or limp off the field, or walk with any hitch whatsoever, suggesting he pushed his foot to it's limits. I thought maybe they were shooting him up before games, but then I never heard Kubiak try to defend Matt, he tried to deflect some blame, but never, "Matt's battling through some things..." Nothing from anyone in the organization.

& he ran out of the pocket, trying to make plays more this season (8 games) than he has in the last two years combined (I don't have the numbers to back that up, but it seemed like it)... & he looked good doing it. Good for Schaub that is.

For a little while I thought the premature move to Keenum suggested there was something going on with Matt that we didn't know about. But they never put him on IR, & he remained active... so I'm still thinking maybe.

Besides, I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with Schaub's foot. I'm not saying the doctor was wrong (I'm no doctor) I'm just saying I don't see the evidence. More speculation & supposition than anything. He had a bad season, so did Matt Ryan, so did Eli Manning, so did Joe Flacco.... are they all suffering from Schaub's Lis Franc?



Hitch your wagon to TK's all you want. He's a duck paddling upstream while wearing a pig suit.

& you're a ten year old pretending to be a lawyer.

Marshall
02-10-2014, 09:08 AM
It will never heal.

It's a degenerative condition.

The preponderance of the evidence appears strong to conclusive. Schaub starts strong and then fades as the season progresses. It matches my personal observations. The falloff is coincidentally associated with the breakdown of team mates to injury which might magnify the problem and offer alternative explanations of his falloff. But I see nothing to contradict the observation.

It might not be enough to convict in a criminal court, but it is certainly enough in a Civil action.

I wonder if he was insured against injury when they made the big Contract like Bagwell was?

HOU-TEX
02-10-2014, 09:31 AM
http://imageshack.com/a/img691/2370/zfl.gif

steelbtexan
02-10-2014, 09:45 AM
The preponderance of the evidence appears strong to conclusive. Schaub starts strong and then fades as the season progresses. It matches my personal observations. The falloff is coincidentally associated with the breakdown of team mates to injury which might magnify the problem and offer alternative explanations of his falloff. But I see nothing to contradict the observation.

It might not be enough to convict in a criminal court, but it is certainly enough in a Civil action.

I wonder if he was insured against injury when they made the big Contract like Bagwell was?

Insurance wont cover the injury because Schaub is still able to play.

Just like if you were a prospective high 1st rd pick, (Lattimore) and fell in the draft due to injury insurance doesn't cover the difference between where you would've been drafted vs where you were drafted. (6th rd) Clowney was on the field that day Lattimore tore his knee up and saw the consequences of this. This is why Clowney played last yr with his main priority being to not get injured. It's not the ideal team 1st thingy. But I cant say that I blame Clowney. There were millions of $$$$ on the line. It's also why Clowney is still #1 on my board (if I had a board LOL) despite of his down yr last season.

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 09:46 AM
http://imageshack.com/a/img691/2370/zfl.gif

Cut his azzzzz....... I'm anything but a Schaub lover, or I'm with everyone thinking we should have at least drafted his replacement three years ago... well, I thought Tj was that replacement... or hoped he was.

I thought as a starting QB he was easily worth a $10M cap hit. But that seems so long ago. No way I'd take a $14M cap hit for him now.

I don't hate him so much that I'd suffer $10M in dead money in a single season for him, but there are ways around that.

infantrycak
02-10-2014, 09:55 AM
No, I'm not confusing anything. Yes I was expecting the degenerative effects CnD spoke of. I looked for them. Didn't see them.

I don't think he lost any zip in his throws. There wasn't a lot to begin with & what we've seen since does not look markedly off.

His arm strength (which was always overblown as an issue) is not lost per se. But you can see the effects in play selection and in the now reduced % of time when he does throw longer in the very deliberate (and slower) way he goes about throwing the ball.

Also, look at the push off, particularly the heel. The overall motion is the same (with the heel lower) but it is not as forceful.

2011 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSzkqchFbhM)

2013 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBsTAJn7Ezg)

As for the duck comment - do you seriously deny you are an outlier on this issue?

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 10:02 AM
As for the duck comment - do you seriously deny you are an outlier on this issue?

It was the pig suit comment.

I'm very sensitive about my weight.

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 10:19 AM
2011 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSzkqchFbhM)


Wow..... that guy made Winston & Wade look good.


2013 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBsTAJn7Ezg)


Some of those, I don't think it would have made a difference how hard he threw the ball. Like the pick six against Tennessee. He & Hopkins were obviously on different pages.

& if we're saying he was already affected this early in the season, how do you explain the comback against San Diego (mostly if not all Schaub), the comeback against Tennessee (a lot of Schaub again, extending plays, buying time), & the whuppin he put on Seattle to start that game?

Bottom line, let's just agree to disagree on the why. We both agree he sucked in 2013 & neither of us are interested in trying to fix him from this point forward.

infantrycak
02-10-2014, 11:15 AM
Some of those, I don't think it would have made a difference how hard he threw the ball.

It's important to read so you can understand and be responsive. I didn't post those about how hard he was throwing the ball or blaming him for the results. I said look at his push-off.

Anyway, you aren't going to see anything because you don't want to so carry on.

Nitrofish
02-10-2014, 11:58 AM
It will never heal.

It's a degenerative condition.

Life is a degenerative condition. Surgically repaired or not, all of our muscles and joints break down over time. Especially if you are an athlete. Schaub's drop off in performance is not because of his injury. I have to agree with TK again when he says there is no evidence of his foot causing any problems. No limps, no problems transferring his weight, no hitch in his giddy up so to speak. You would see him favoring the foot in several ways if it were bothering him. Most of his mistakes in 2013 were mental, not physical IMO.

In my mind it is all just excuses from people who have wanted to see Schaub gone for years. Saying he is damaged goods is just a smoke screen. There is no visual evidence of it, nobody discussing it, Except here. Many of those same people said Kubiak was finished, that the NFL had passed him by, and nobody would ever hire him again. We all see how that turned out.

Marshall Faulk has made no secret of the way he feels about Schaub, and it is not in a positive way. Faulk has time and time again run him down on NFLN, and when he made the comments that caused me to start this thread, you could see that he still has no love for the man. He is just saying another year with Schaub, in his opinion is the fastest way to turn things around.

I look forward to Schaub moving on and playing well in another city. It's disappointing to see him go as he and his wife are class acts and have done a lot for the city of Houston outside of football.

Brisco_County
02-10-2014, 12:09 PM
2011 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSzkqchFbhM)



That system sure was beautiful to watch when successfully executed.

infantrycak
02-10-2014, 12:13 PM
In my mind it is all just excuses from people who have wanted to see Schaub gone for years. Saying he is damaged goods is just a smoke screen.

And here is the kind of place you go off the rails. Look back at my track record on Schaub. The only thing I have ever been accused of on him is being too pro-Schaub.

That system sure was beautiful to watch when successfully executed.

Yes it was. That's why I hate people saying Schaub never could do it and the system never was that good, etc.

Double Barrel
02-10-2014, 12:25 PM
Has anyone mentioned Schaub's injury outside of Texanstalk.com?

I listen to 610 & 790 quite a bit & have never heard it come up... at all.

It has been a subject on Marc Vandermeer's show, and he's the official voice of the Texans.

Teddy Johnson talked about it in pre-season 2013.

I know N.D. Kalu and Greg Koche have discussed it with callers this season.

And Charlie Palilo and LZ have talked about various aspects of Schaub's decline and potential causes (including degenerative injuries).

So, there are some conversations on Houston's airwaves that have mentioned it where I have heard them talk about it, fwiw.

BTW, all of the above are very familiar with the Houston Texans and there is pretty much a consensus that Schaub will be cut in off season 2014.

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 12:35 PM
In my mind it is all just excuses from people who have wanted to see Schaub gone for years. Saying he is damaged goods is just a smoke screen.

I've never been a hater (of Schaub) I've rooted for him like I've rooted for all Texans. But... I lost it this year.

I did not secretly deep down want to see him gone, I did believe we should have been more aggressive looking for a replacement years ago.

So I imagine there were more people like me. Hoping that he would regain his old form (for me it was 2009, other people just wanted to see him get back to pre-injury status)..... but I think we all got tired of waiting.

Like I said earlier, I don't care what the reason is, I'm ready to move on.

There's a pretty piss-poor FA QB class coming up (unless Cassell & Bradford join in, then it's just poor) & Schaub may very well be the best veteran QB on the market. I'd hate to cut him & have to spend the measly $4M in savings on his replacement.

I'd much rather cut his salary to $3M & realize a $7M savings in 2014, $14M savings in 2015, & $16M savings in 2016. It would give him one last shot to save his career in Houston (which I don't care to do, but like I said considering the options.... eh!!).... but we'd better draft a QB in the first three rounds (I have been pretty consistent on that, even before we knew we had the #1 overall pick).

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 12:40 PM
I know N.D. Kalu and Greg Koche have discussed it with callers this season.


I've got the memory of an 80 year old Alzheimer's victim. But I listen to Koche & Kalu religiously. I've heard them reply to a caller once, but they both dismissed it pretty quickly. Saying if it was an issue, we'd know about it.

Because it would be a big issue, especially with the pressure there was to start someone (anyone) else.

Other than that, I've been surprised about how many callers didn't bring it up.

HOU-TEX
02-10-2014, 01:23 PM
I've got the memory of an 80 year old Alzheimer's victim. But I listen to Koche & Kalu religiously. I've heard them reply to a caller once, but they both dismissed it pretty quickly. Saying if it was an issue, we'd know about it.

Because it would be a big issue, especially with the pressure there was to start someone (anyone) else.

Other than that, I've been surprised about how many callers didn't bring it up.

Ted Johnson has mentioned the foot injury quite a bit within the past several months. *Side note: the only shows I listen to on 610 are the two with Seth Payne and Teddy J.

On the bolded. I've noticed throughout my years of listen to sports talk that most of these cats that call in are either football ignorant or knee-jerks. I never listen to post game shows for this reason. I've only lived in Htown, so I'm not certain what these shows are like elsewhere.

Double Barrel
02-10-2014, 04:20 PM
Ted Johnson has mentioned the foot injury quite a bit within the past several months. *Side note: the only shows I listen to on 610 are the two with Seth Payne and Teddy J.

On the bolded. I've noticed throughout my years of listen to sports talk that most of these cats that call in are either football ignorant or knee-jerks. I never listen to post game shows for this reason. I've only lived in Htown, so I'm not certain what these shows are like elsewhere.

yep. Teddy Johnson is the first one I thought of, because he was predicting a bad season for the Texans and Schaub in August. He took a lot of heat from the homers for his takes, but he just tells it like he sees it, and from a former pro football player with his experiences, you won't get that intimate perspective from many radio hosts.

And agree completely about Houston callers being reactionary and knee jerkers. I rarely hear someone that calls in with fresh takes and offers insight. I thought I heard one once, but turned out it was Texans Chick doing a call in interview, so she doesn't count.

steelbtexan
02-10-2014, 04:31 PM
And here is the kind of place you go off the rails. Look back at my track record on Schaub. The only thing I have ever been accused of on him is being too pro-Schaub.



Yes it was. That's why I hate people saying Schaub never could do it and the system never was that good, etc.

I used to be pro Schaub. Until after he got hurt and I could see his play deteriorate before my eyes. Then I read what C-N-D's opinion of where Schaub was and where he was going physically and knew it was time to move on from Schaub. We had many disagreements on this subject.

Schaub back in the 2009 season was playing at an elite level and was close to that level in 2011. IMHO He was the guy I thought could lead the team to a SB. I was a huge Schaub guy.

Nitrofish
02-11-2014, 02:54 AM
And here is the kind of place you go off the rails. Look back at my track record on Schaub. The only thing I have ever been accused of on him is being too pro-Schaub.

Yes it was. That's why I hate people saying Schaub never could do it and the system never was that good, etc.

I was not directing those comments at you anyway. I think you have been level headed on all of you posts, including the Schaub stuff so sorry if you felt like I was lumping you in with the ABS crowd.

I started this thread in hopes it would be filled with some tangible stuff, but the only real effort put into it was from Brisco_County who posted a really well laid out argument with diagrams and all, and while I may have dismissed it, or even mocked it a bit (Sorry Bro), I still appreciated the thought and effort he put into it, and it was at least original, based on his own experiences.

The rest of the ABS crowd just keep parroting the same tired speculation over and over, as if that somehow validates what they are posting. It doesn't. I honestly believe if there was a problem with the foot we would be hearing about it endlessly from other sources not just this MB. No offense doc, I am sure you are a very honest and knowledgeable medical resource, but you did not perform the surgery on MS, or have never even examined him, so while I appreciate your wisdom in that arena, it's still only speculation.

This thread is not a call to keep Schaub. It is a thread that asks the question. Could Marshal Faulk be right, and is it possible the new HC could take that route, if not, why? But sadly it turned into the same old Us vs Them crap this and other boards are famous for.

Scooter
02-11-2014, 06:24 AM
edit: nevermind

ObsiWan
02-11-2014, 01:32 PM
There's a pretty piss-poor FA QB class coming up (unless Cassell & Bradford join in, then it's just poor) & Schaub may very well be the best veteran QB on the market. I'd hate to cut him & have to spend the measly $4M in savings on his replacement.


TK is right about one thing; IF they want to bring in a F/A vet, this is what we have to chose from...

Derek Anderson CAR
Jimmy Clausen CAR
Josh McCown CHI
Jordan Palmer CHI
Jon Kitna DAL
Shaun Hill DET
Matt Flynn GB
Seneca Wallace GB
Chad Henne JAC
Josh Freeman MIN
Luke McCown NO
Curtis Painter NYG
David Garrard NYJ
Michael Vick PHI
Charlie Whitehurst SD
Tarvaris Jackson SEA
Colt McCoy SF
Kellen Clemens STL
Brady Quinn STL
Dan Orlovsky TB
Rusty Smith TEN
Rex Grossman WAS


Color me less than excited.

The alternative is draft Manziel or Bridgewater or **insert your guy here** and go with Yates or Keenum as our #2.

Rookie QB. Rebuilding defense....

This may be another loooonnnng year.

Lucky
02-11-2014, 02:44 PM
TK is right about one thing; IF they want to bring in a F/A vet, this is what we have to chose from...
You have to add Matt Cassel, who voided the last year of is contract and will be a free agent. Cassel was in New England with O'Brien for 2 seasons. He could probably run the offense in his sleep and would be perfect for a young QB to learn under.

BullNation4Life
02-11-2014, 02:57 PM
TK is right about one thing; IF they want to bring in a F/A vet, this is what we have to chose from...


Color me less than excited.

The alternative is draft Manziel or Bridgewater or **insert your guy here** and go with Yates or Keenum as our #2.

Rookie QB. Rebuilding defense....

This may be another loooonnnng year.

Or maybe the Texans have a turn around year like Seattle had last year with a rookie named Wilson...

Like Wilson's daddy use to tell him, why not him...Hell why not us!

keep that glass half full, brother!

Allstar
02-11-2014, 03:17 PM
You have to add Matt Cassel, who voided the last year of is contract and will be a free agent. Cassel was in New England with O'Brien for 2 seasons. He could probably run the offense in his sleep and would be perfect for a young QB to learn under.

O'Brien was coaching WRs when Cassel was there.

Lucky
02-11-2014, 03:49 PM
O'Brien was coaching WRs when Cassel was there.
And? You don't think he knows Cassel and what he can do?

thunderkyss
02-11-2014, 05:53 PM
And? You don't think he knows Cassel and what he can do?

Cassel did play for Crennel... he might know him too well.

Marshall
02-11-2014, 06:04 PM
TK is right about one thing; IF they want to bring in a F/A vet, this is what we have to chose from...


Color me less than excited.

The alternative is draft Manziel or Bridgewater or **insert your guy here** and go with Yates or Keenum as our #2.

Rookie QB. Rebuilding defense....

This may be another loooonnnng year.

Where would you rate Keenum on this list of QBs?

ObsiWan
02-11-2014, 06:10 PM
Or maybe the Texans have a turn around year like Seattle had last year with a rookie named Wilson...

Like Wilson's daddy use to tell him, why not him...Hell why not us!

keep that glass half full, brother!

Let me get back to you after the draft and F/A is over.

...make that after OTAs.
maybe then I'll have an idea how good a :chef: this O'Brien guy is.

kingtexan
02-11-2014, 06:54 PM
I've spent plenty of time knocking down unwarranted or overblown attacks on Schaub over the years

Maybe what was unwarranted was your treatment of those who saw Matt for what he was.

steelbtexan
02-11-2014, 07:09 PM
I was not directing those comments at you anyway. I think you have been level headed on all of you posts, including the Schaub stuff so sorry if you felt like I was lumping you in with the ABS crowd.

I started this thread in hopes it would be filled with some tangible stuff, but the only real effort put into it was from Brisco_County who posted a really well laid out argument with diagrams and all, and while I may have dismissed it, or even mocked it a bit (Sorry Bro), I still appreciated the thought and effort he put into it, and it was at least original, based on his own experiences.

The rest of the ABS crowd just keep parroting the same tired speculation over and over, as if that somehow validates what they are posting. It doesn't. I honestly believe if there was a problem with the foot we would be hearing about it endlessly from other sources not just this MB. No offense doc, I am sure you are a very honest and knowledgeable medical resource, but you did not perform the surgery on MS, or have never even examined him, so while I appreciate your wisdom in that arena, it's still only speculation.

This thread is not a call to keep Schaub. It is a thread that asks the question. Could Marshal Faulk be right, and is it possible the new HC could take that route, if not, why? But sadly it turned into the same old Us vs Them crap this and other boards are famous for.


No Faulk is not right if the intent is winning as many games as possible. Since I think this is a 3 yr rebuild this wouldn't be such a bad thing. Have you seen BO'B's offense? If so what would make you think Schaub would be a good fit? He likes tall strong armed QB's? Does that seem like Schaub would be a good fit in his offense?

Carry on with your Schaub maturbatory tendencies..

steelbtexan
02-11-2014, 07:13 PM
Maybe what was unwarranted was your treatment of those who saw Matt for what he was.

Maybe? LOL

steelbtexan
02-11-2014, 07:14 PM
Or maybe the Texans have a turn around year like Seattle had last year with a rookie named Wilson...

Like Wilson's daddy use to tell him, why not him...Hell why not us!

keep that glass half full, brother!

Is Rick Smith still the GM of the Texans?