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kiwitexansfan
01-21-2014, 05:13 PM
Scouting Report (http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/12/21/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-logan-thomas-qb-virginia-tech/)

I can't help but be intrigued by this guy.

He seems to have such good physical tools, is book smart (graduated already in a real qualification), and only started QBing in college after being recruited as a TE.

I am pro-Bridgewater in the first (or Manziel or Bortles if push came to shove) but I would not be opposed to coming back to Thomas if he was there in the 5th.

Thoughts?

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c1910342/media_center/images/rendered/blog/wysiwyg/Logan-Thomas1.jpg

Marshall
01-21-2014, 05:20 PM
Scouting Report (http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/12/21/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-logan-thomas-qb-virginia-tech/)

I can't help but be intrigued by this guy.

He seems to have such good physical tools, is book smart (graduated already in a real qualification), and only started QBing in college after being recruited as a TE.

I am pro-Bridgewater in the first (or Manziel or Bortles if push came to shove) but I would not be opposed to coming back to Thomas if he was there in the 5th.

Thoughts?

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c1910342/media_center/images/rendered/blog/wysiwyg/Logan-Thomas1.jpg

If a guy is inexperienced and catching up, then I want a high IQ as well. Otherwise, he'll be gone before he's of any use. He looks like he's worth taking a flyer on in the late rounds.

leebigeztx
01-21-2014, 05:44 PM
I would draft him in the 5th and move him to te. As a qb prospect, he's looks good until he actually plays. If he runs a 4.5 40, and performs well in 3 cone and shuttle, I'm moving him to te.

Playoffs
01-21-2014, 05:52 PM
Thoughts?

General consensus is he looks awful at Senior Bowl practices so far but will still be overdrafted. Accuracy is on par with this guy's...

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3483917/bull-durham-o.gif

Blake
01-21-2014, 06:00 PM
Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Dude has been pretty mediocre his entire career. Couldnt even put up points against a horrid Michigan defense in the Sugar bowl a few years back.

Kinda reminds me of Josh Freeman out of K-State. I was shocked when he went 17 overall. Measureables were great, but didnt produce in the Big12.

Like you said, Thomas will probably be overdrafted due to his measureables, but he is not worth more than a project 4th round.

htownfan32
01-21-2014, 06:25 PM
Maybe he'll be willing to play TE.

TexansSeminole
01-21-2014, 07:07 PM
Wouldn't touch him. He held VT back during his time there IMO.

bOODRO87
01-21-2014, 07:09 PM
F*ck and No.

mussop
01-21-2014, 07:29 PM
Other than size he has nothing. Probably won't even get drafted.

aussie_texan
01-21-2014, 07:31 PM
ill take a flyer on him as an UDFA and thats all. no way do i give up a 5th for him. you can still find quality back ups late in the draft that we sorely need

bah007
01-21-2014, 10:04 PM
I have him graded as a 6th rounder and at that I would still only take him if I had an established starter and backup and had time to work with Thomas for a few years before anything other than QB #3 was expected of him.

I would actually have him graded higher as a TE than I do as a QB, just like Colin Klein last year.

NCTexan
01-21-2014, 10:10 PM
Wouldn't touch him. He held VT back during his time there IMO.

So true.

Though, I don't view that as a bad thing (born and raised UVa fan).
:kitten:

JCTexan
01-21-2014, 11:45 PM
Scouting Report (http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/12/21/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-logan-thomas-qb-virginia-tech/)

I can't help but be intrigued by this guy.

He seems to have such good physical tools, is book smart (graduated already in a real qualification), and only started QBing in college after being recruited as a TE.

I am pro-Bridgewater in the first (or Manziel or Bortles if push came to shove) but I would not be opposed to coming back to Thomas if he was there in the 5th.

Thoughts?

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c1910342/media_center/images/rendered/blog/wysiwyg/Logan-Thomas1.jpg

I have no problems with taking Thomas in the fifth round. He's a project that has the size and arm strength for the NFL. If you let him sit a few years behind a Bridgewater/Bortles you could find yourself with a capable backup. A lot of his negatives seem to just be his lack of experience at the position.

beerlover
01-21-2014, 11:50 PM
I have him graded as a 6th rounder and at that I would still only take him if I had an established starter and backup and had time to work with Thomas for a few years before anything other than QB #3 was expected of him.

I would actually have him graded higher as a TE than I do as a QB, just like Colin Klein last year.

Speaking of Colin Klein, I knew he was here in training camp awhile but whatever happened to him?

ArlingtonTexan
01-21-2014, 11:54 PM
Speaking of Colin Klein, I knew he was here in training camp awhile but whatever happened to him?

He never signed with Texans nor any team.

mussop
01-22-2014, 09:09 AM
I have him graded as a 6th rounder and at that I would still only take him if I had an established starter and backup and had time to work with Thomas for a few years before anything other than QB #3 was expected of him.

I would actually have him graded higher as a TE than I do as a QB, just like Colin Klein last year.

If he proved he could catch I would use a late draft pick on him as a TE.

thetexanator
01-22-2014, 09:28 AM
kid never amounted to much. looks the part, but the few times ive seen him play, doesnt look good at all as a qb.

Blake
01-22-2014, 09:41 AM
Is he open to being a TE?

mussop
01-22-2014, 09:46 AM
Is he open to being a TE?

If not he's an idiot. It may be his only chance in the nfl.

bah007
01-22-2014, 01:47 PM
Speaking of Colin Klein, I knew he was here in training camp awhile but whatever happened to him?

Didn't make it through camp. Just doesn't have a NFL arm. Like Arlington said, nobody else ever signed him.

I had read somewhere (can't find it now) that some teams were interested in him as a TE but he only wants to play QB. He was actually invited to the combine as a TE but refused to do anything other than QB drills.

I understand having confidence in yourself but that kind of attitude bugs me. He'd rather be on the street as a "QB" than in a uniform at another position. MarQueis Gray actually did the same thing and also went undrafted but after he was picked up by SF he agreed to play wherever they asked him. They cut him but the Browns picked him up and played him at numerous positions this year.

VTexan
01-22-2014, 01:52 PM
only if he plays TE

Dutchrudder
01-22-2014, 02:05 PM
I'd be open to drafting him if we took Bridgewater at #1 and then got McNair to spend a bunch of money on a crack surgeon team to swap their brains. Bridgewater's brain in Thomas' body would be a surefire franchise QB. Then we could release the Logan Thomas brain in Bridgewater's body, only to see him get picked up by the Patriots and become the GOAT QB...

WolverineFan
01-22-2014, 03:21 PM
Some team is going to draft him and it probably won't be at the end of the draft. I'm guessing 4th or 5th round. If we have learned anything about scouts and GM's over the years it's that height-weight-speed trumps everything.

There was a twitter quote in the Senior Bowl thread that was the quintessential attitude of a scout. It was...."I can teach him to throw the ball, I can't teach him to be 6'6, 250."

JCTexan
01-22-2014, 03:28 PM
Some team is going to draft him and it probably won't be at the end of the draft. I'm guessing 4th or 5th round. If we have learned anything about scouts and GM's over the years it's that height-weight-speed trumps everything.

There was a twitter quote in the Senior Bowl thread that was the quintessential attitude of a scout. It was...."I can teach him to throw the ball, I can't teach him to be 6'6, 250."

That was one of two quotes that stood out to me. The other:

Will say this about Thomas--guy wasn't developed at VaTech. No progression from Y1-Y2-Y3 as a starter.

Could that just be poor coaching? I wouldn't mind the Texans getting him with a fifth or sixth rounder and seeing where he's at in 2-3 years under O'Brien.

thunderkyss
01-22-2014, 03:30 PM
Scouting Report (http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/12/21/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-logan-thomas-qb-virginia-tech/)

I can't help but be intrigued by this guy.

He seems to have such good physical tools, is book smart (graduated already in a real qualification), and only started QBing in college after being recruited as a TE.

I am pro-Bridgewater in the first (or Manziel or Bortles if push came to shove) but I would not be opposed to coming back to Thomas if he was there in the 5th.

Thoughts?

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c1910342/media_center/images/rendered/blog/wysiwyg/Logan-Thomas1.jpg


I'd be willing to use a 4th on him. Surely he's going to be a project.... plan B, incase Bridgewater/Bortles don't make it.

Heck, I'd be fine with drafting this guy in the 4th.... even the third, if we sign Josh Freeman.

But, I don't see Bridgewater or Manziel as tier 1 QBs.

kiwitexansfan
01-22-2014, 03:58 PM
Could that just be poor coaching? I wouldn't mind the Texans getting him with a fifth or sixth rounder and seeing where he's at in 2-3 years under O'Brien.

That is the thing that stands out for me reading Senior Bowl coverage, how much the prospects get coached up and improve in three days at the Senior Bowl. WTF are the college coaches teaching them? Are colllege coaches that inferior to pro coaches?

WolverineFan
01-22-2014, 04:01 PM
I'd be willing to use a 4th on him. Surely he's going to be a project.... plan B, incase Bridgewater/Bortles don't make it.

Heck, I'd be fine with drafting this guy in the 4th.... even the third, if we sign Josh Freeman.

But, I don't see Bridgewater or Manziel as tier 1 QBs.

You would be fine with walking into camp with Freeman, Thomas, and Keenum as our QB's? If we had the #1 pick and walked into camp with that QB crop I would fire everybody.

Just my opinion, but I see you keep on talking about prototypical QB's and how Bridgewater and Co. don't add up to your prototypical standards. On the flip side, just because a guy has prototypical measurements (Freeman & Thomas) doesn't mean they can play QB worth a lick.

Skill sets are much more important than measureables. When your best attribute as a QB is that you're big, then there's a problem.

WolverineFan
01-22-2014, 04:06 PM
That is the thing that stands out for me reading Senior Bowl coverage, how much the prospects get coached up and improve in three days at the Senior Bowl. WTF are the college coaches teaching them? Are colllege coaches that inferior to pro coaches?

Colleges use players to get W's just like players use colleges to get to the pro's. If a guy is big and fast and can run your team to victory then there is no reason to develop him as a passer. That's just how it is.

And I wouldn't be so quick to blame VT for Thomas' lack of development. His lack of talent is the reason for his lack of development. Remember, his predecessor Tyrod Taylor developed wonderfully at VT.

Marshall
01-22-2014, 04:10 PM
If not he's an idiot. It may be his only chance in the nfl.

This is starting to sound like the Tebow comments from last year.

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 05:26 AM
You would be fine with walking into camp with Freeman, Thomas, and Keenum as our QB's? If we had the #1 pick and walked into camp with that QB crop I would fire everybody.


You would be fine walking into camp with Bridgewater or Manziel? If we had the #1 pick & we became the first franchise to draft a QB first overall who weighed less than 210... I'd fire every body.


Just my opinion, but I see you keep on talking about prototypical QB's and how Bridgewater and Co. don't add up to your prototypical standards. On the flip side, just because a guy has prototypical measurements (Freeman & Thomas) doesn't mean they can play QB worth a lick.


& even with their size, I don't suggest taking either of them with the #1 overall, nowhere close. There's a trade off. Bridgewater may have the experience of playing in a "pro" system, but so did Aj McCarron. It's a knock on McCarron because he was surrounded by talent... yet I feel Bridgewater's receivers made him look really good with major YAC & amazing catches (not a popular opinion, but it is mine). McCarron also didn't play well against better competition... but it was better competition.

& yes, If Kubiak can make Matt Schaub a "starter" based on what he was in Atlanta, OB should be able to get as much (if not more) out of Freeman if he's half the QB guru Kubiak "is"


Skill sets are much more important than measureables. When your best attribute as a QB is that you're big, then there's a problem.

People said Michael Vick wouldn't be able to play a full season in the NFL. He's hell on wheels when he's healthy enough to play though. Vick had a "wow" factor about him to compensate for his "lack of size" (6'1' 210lbs)... imo, Bridgewater doesn't have enough "wow" to compensate for his 6'3" 206lb frame + lesser competition + shoddy mechanics.

None of them are perfect. But I'd rather try to fix "big with issues" than "small with issues."

But that's me. You don't have to agree, I'm fine with that.

matts290
01-23-2014, 05:48 AM
thunder, please enlighten me on what makes you like Josh Freeman so much, because just about everyone else in the world other than you and his mother agree that he is a bad QB.

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 05:57 AM
Imagine it's 1992, you're the Green Bay Packers. You need a QB. Do you take the best one available to you (http://articles.philly.com/1992-04-22/sports/26005182_1_tommy-maddox-espn-draft-analyst-ucla-fans) in the draft? Do you trade up to get the best QB in the class (http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/dan-mcgwire)? Or do they look elsewhere for a "better" prospect (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/112/brett-favre)?

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 06:04 AM
thunder, please enlighten me on what makes you like Josh Freeman so much, because just about everyone else in the world other than you and his mother agree that he is a bad QB.

I don't like Josh Freeman. I like Josh Freeman + Zach Mettenberger/Aj McCarron/Logan Thomas better than Teddy Bridgewater. I'm not ready to say Josh is a bad QB. He's been in some bad situations, didn't handle them all to well, but who knows... maybe he learned something from them.

I'm perfectly fine giving Freeman "one last chance," a full training camp with my team, to allow my rookie QB time to adjust. If you guys are right & Freeman is "bad" there will be plenty of opportunity to insert the rookie into real games & prepare him to become a starter in the NFL.

infantrycak
01-23-2014, 08:24 AM
I don't like Josh Freeman. I like Josh Freeman + Zach Mettenberger/Aj McCarron/Logan Thomas better than Teddy Bridgewater.

You don't put two QBs on the field at once. Two 5's do not beat an 8 in the QB game.

Blake
01-23-2014, 08:50 AM
You don't put two QBs on the field at once. Two 5's do not beat an 8 in the QB game.

I think he is more interested in hedging his bet over projecting the best prospect and going with him.

infantrycak
01-23-2014, 08:59 AM
I think he is more interested in hedging his bet over projecting the best prospect and going with him.

I think he is more interested in pot stirring and making any and every argument against TB as the favorite is his latest campaign.

TexansFTW
01-23-2014, 09:27 AM
OK. I'll bite. I've got nothing better to do. Just work...

Imagine it's 1992, you're the Green Bay Packers. You need a QB. Do you take the best one available to you (http://articles.philly.com/1992-04-22/sports/26005182_1_tommy-maddox-espn-draft-analyst-ucla-fans) in the draft? Do you trade up to get the best QB in the class (http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/dan-mcgwire)? Or do they look elsewhere for a "better" prospect (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/112/brett-favre)?

You're reaching for an example over 20 years old with several flaws. We aren't trading up. Maddox wasn't graded out at the top of the draft. Favre was right next to Maddox with pre-draft rankings (In a different year).

What if I told you for every exception to the rule there are substantially more rules that hold up to the exception?

Tommy Maddox had prototypical NFL QB size (6'4, 220) and Brett Favre was shorter than ideal height (6'2).

Maddox was only taken 8 spots higher than Favre.

I don't like Josh Freeman. I like Josh Freeman + Zach Mettenberger/Aj McCarron/Logan Thomas better than Teddy Bridgewater. I'm not ready to say Josh is a bad QB. He's been in some bad situations, didn't handle them all to well, but who knows... maybe he learned something from them.

I'm perfectly fine giving Freeman "one last chance," a full training camp with my team, to allow my rookie QB time to adjust. If you guys are right & Freeman is "bad" there will be plenty of opportunity to insert the rookie into real games & prepare him to become a starter in the NFL.

So Freeman fails and you are forced to start the rookie... but the rookie your forced to start is not nearly as good... So now you have a worse rookie starting at QB for your team. At least he's got the size right?

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 04:46 PM
So Freeman fails and you are forced to start the rookie... but the rookie your forced to start is not nearly as good... So now you have a worse rookie starting at QB for your team. At least he's got the size right?

It would be kinda like being forced to start Aaron Rodgers instead of Alex Smith. Just because he was selected later in the draft doesn't mean he is a worse prospect, only that the "experts" believe he is.

Or if Matt Flynn fails, the Seahawks were forced to start Russell Wilson, who turned out (so far) as good as, if not better, than RG3 & Andrew Luck both chosen two full rounds ahead of him.

Understand, Ryan Mallett has first round talent. They were worried bout his off field issues. I don't know if we can hold it against him that he didn't beat out Tom Brady for the starting job.

The Pencil Neck
01-23-2014, 05:05 PM
Imagine it's 1992, you're the Green Bay Packers. You need a QB. Do you take the best one available to you (http://articles.philly.com/1992-04-22/sports/26005182_1_tommy-maddox-espn-draft-analyst-ucla-fans) in the draft? Do you trade up to get the best QB in the class (http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/dan-mcgwire)? Or do they look elsewhere for a "better" prospect (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/112/brett-favre)?

In 1992? The Packers had Don Majkowski! He was THE MAN! He led the Pack to a 10-6 a couple of years before and then had a couple of years of injuries, but the future was bright with the Majik Man!

They just needed a really good backup.

:mariopalm:

bhsman
01-23-2014, 05:08 PM
I could see the Texans spending as high as a 5th on him, but he'd either be a project or have to convert to Tight End. Dude is big and fast, it's just a matter of him improving or making a good transition.

steelbtexan
01-23-2014, 05:13 PM
It would be kinda like being forced to start Aaron Rodgers instead of Alex Smith. Just because he was selected later in the draft doesn't mean he is a worse prospect, only that the "experts" believe he is.

Or if Matt Flynn fails, the Seahawks were forced to start Russell Wilson, who turned out (so far) as good as, if not better, than RG3 & Andrew Luck both chosen two full rounds ahead of him.

Understand, Ryan Mallett has first round talent. They were worried bout his off field issues. I don't know if we can hold it against him that he didn't beat out Tom Brady for the starting job.

The pro TB people cant think about any other scenario. They're sure TB is going to be great. (The chosen one)

The Bortles people see a prototypical type QB that has a past with O'Leary, one of BO'B's mentors.

JM people see Russell Wilson. Gig'em

Clowney people see him as a generational talent who's to good to pass up. Especially with QB's that have the talent to rival the top 3 QB's.

Then there are people like me who don't like any of the QB's in this draft and would rather wait until 2015 to draft a QB. Or trade for Mallett, a very talented guy who has yrs in BO'B's system and draft Clowney

One thing's for sure, nothing is going to change people's minds.

htownfan32
01-23-2014, 05:14 PM
I could see the Texans spending as high as a 5th on him, but he'd either be a project or have to convert to Tight End. Dude is big and fast, it's just a matter of him improving or making a good transition.

I think he could be a monster TE if he really wanted to be one. Like that scout said... can't teach 6'6 250.

bhsman
01-23-2014, 05:16 PM
Doesn't the team drafting first overall get several late-round compensatory picks, including the very last one in the seventh? Maybe he could be our 'Mr. Irrelevant."

htownfan32
01-23-2014, 05:18 PM
The pro TB people cant think about any other scenario. They're sure TB is going to be great. (The chosen one)

The Bortles people see a prototypical type QB that has a past with O'Leary, one of BO'B's mentors.

JM people see Russell Wilson. Gig'em

Clowney people see him as a generational talent who's to good to pass up. Especially with QB's that have the talent to rival the top 3 QB's.

Then there are people like me who don't like any of the QB's in this draft and would rather wait until 2015 to draft a QB. Or trade for Mallett, a very talented guy who has yrs in BO'B's system and draft Clowney

One thing's for sure, nothing is going to change people's minds.

This post makes a lot of sense, because that's essentially the different types of people we have on this board (also including the last few Carr/Mettenberger/McCarron/Murray supporters that are left). However, I feel leery of saying no one will change their minds because there are a few months with quite a few factors left to determine how folks feel about their guy. Stuff could happen at the combine or at pro days that change everyone's minds. Manziel could look awful at the Combine, maybe Carr stands out, who knows?

htownfan32
01-23-2014, 05:19 PM
Doesn't the team drafting first overall get several late-round compensatory picks, including the very last one in the seventh? Maybe he could be our 'Mr. Irrelevant."

I hope he lasts that long, but someone's going to tackle this project before the seventh round, I think.

TexansFTW
01-23-2014, 05:26 PM
Then there are people like me who don't like any of the QB's in this draft and would rather wait until 2015 to draft a QB. Or trade for Mallett, a very talented guy who has yrs in BO'B's system and draft Clowney


How would you pay Ryan Mallett and JJ Watt at the end of the 2014 season?

Who would you draft with our #1 overall pick in 2015 if we do that?

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 08:41 PM
How would you pay Ryan Mallett and JJ Watt at the end of the 2014 season?

Who would you draft with our #1 overall pick in 2015 if we do that?

How much do you think it would take to sign Jj Watt?

JB
01-23-2014, 08:51 PM
How would you pay Ryan Mallett and JJ Watt at the end of the 2014 season?

Who would you draft with our #1 overall pick in 2015 if we do that?

why do we have to pay watt at the end of the 2014 season?

steelbtexan
01-23-2014, 11:21 PM
How would you pay Ryan Mallett and JJ Watt at the end of the 2014 season?

Who would you draft with our #1 overall pick in 2015 if we do that?

Depends on what BO'B thinks of Mallett. I might extend him after the trade at a cheaper price. I might let Mallett play things out and see how he does then if he plays well extend him. If he doesn't play well then the Texans should be in a position to get one of the top QB's in the 2015 draft. Which is what I really want anyway.

I thought I have made my position clear when it comes to the 2014 QB draft class?

TexansFTW
01-24-2014, 12:00 AM
I'm all about Logan Thomas as a late round flyer. You can't pass up on talent like that if you get it at the right price. See the 49ers and Seahawks.

How much do you think it would take to sign Jj Watt?

6 years and between $80-90 million.

why do we have to pay watt at the end of the 2014 season?

I guess you can let him walk? That's not what I want. And you sure as hell are NOT going to franchise tag a former defensive player of the year and the best at his position. Despite these clowns saying it's possible, it is ABSOLUTELY not. I will eat my words if it happens, but I do not fear that one bit.

Depends on what BO'B thinks of Mallett. I might extend him after the trade at a cheaper price. I might let Mallett play things out and see how he does then if he plays well extend him. If he doesn't play well then the Texans should be in a position to get one of the top QB's in the 2015 draft. Which is what I really want anyway.

I thought I have made my position clear when it comes to the 2014 QB draft class?

Extend him before he plays a single snap for us at starting QB money? Gotta say I REALLY hate that idea.

Potentially extend him after 1 season of possible hope and promise. Who was the last 3rd round we pick we did that on and how did that work out? Did that happen 20 years ago in a completely different NFL or did that JUST happen?

Everyone said that about this years QB crop last year too. Probably gonna need to find Andre's replacement now too.

I said #1 pick in 2015 draft FYI. I'm implying we would fail as a team with that strategy.

steelbtexan
01-24-2014, 12:16 AM
I'm all about Logan Thomas as a late round flyer. You can't pass up on talent like that if you get it at the right price. See the 49ers and Seahawks.



6 years and between $80-90 million.



I guess you can let him walk? That's not what I want. And you sure as hell are NOT going to franchise tag a former defensive player of the year and the best at his position. Despite these clowns saying it's possible, it is ABSOLUTELY not. I will eat my words if it happens, but I do not fear that one bit.



Extend him before he plays a single snap for us at starting QB money? Gotta say I REALLY hate that idea.

Potentially extend him after 1 season of possible hope and promise. Who was the last 3rd round we pick we did that on and how did that work out? Did that happen 20 years ago in a completely different NFL or did that JUST happen?

Everyone said that about this years QB crop last year too. Probably gonna need to find Andre's replacement now too.

I said #1 pick in 2015 draft FYI. I'm implying we would fail as a team with that strategy.

They aren't going to let Watt walk.

I'm not for extending Mallett before he plays. But yes, you could sign Mallett and Watt to a new contract before the 2015 season if Mallett plays well. If he doesn't you can draft a QB in the better QB 2015 draft. It's a win-win if you ask me.

Alex Smith would be the latest example of a QB traded for that has worked out pretty well. Admit it, you want TB and your mind is made up.

Give me Mallett and Clowney and if this doesn't work out then you've hedged your bets because you should have a high enough draft pick to draft Winston/Mariota/Hundley etc... next yr. All of who have as much or more potential as any QB in this yrs draft.

BTW, I get the gotta have it now generation.

TexansFTW
01-24-2014, 12:27 AM
They aren't going to let Watt walk.

I'm not for extending Mallett before he plays. But yes, you could sign Mallett and Watt to a new contract before the 2015 season if Mallett plays well. If he doesn't you can draft a QB in the better QB 2015 draft. It's a win-win if you ask me.

Alex Smith would be the latest example of a QB traded for that has worked out pretty well. Admit it, you want TB and your mind is made up.

Give me Mallett and Clowney and if this doesn't work out then you've hedged your bets because you should have a high enough draft pick to draft Winston/Mariota/Hundley etc... next yr. All of who have as much or more potential as any QB in this yrs draft.

BTW, I get the gotta have it now generation.

I hear you. It's all good. My questions were rhetorical. The truth is you can't sign JJ Watt and a new QB without cutting half of this team.

Alex Smith is absolutely nothing like Ryan Mallett. A guy that has 6 years experience as a starting QB coming off of an NFC Championship game, where he was a field goal away in overtime from going to the big dance. Alex Smith was drafted 1.01 and Ryan Mallet is a 3rd round pick that has throw 4 NFL passes (3 incomplete).

If we get Winston or Mariota I can live. I HATE Hundley. I do want it now. Maybe cause this city sucks. Astros are good for a couple years then get swept in the World Series and then basically become THE dumpster fire of MLB the last 3 years.

I can't even watch the Rockets unless I go to the game or watch on my computer all choppy.

I only really have the Texans and I get all this false hope, they do everything I don't want every year and I hate the result every year. For once I just want my draft and I want it now, you're right.

I change my mind often though. Maybe I will come around. I would prefer not to have to though and everything just work out. We will see. I respect your opinion. I also apologize for trashing this thread about Logan Thomas.

I LIKE Logan Thomas as a gamble late.

thunderkyss
01-24-2014, 02:17 PM
6 years and between $80-90 million.


Mario got $96M. Just to make it easy, let's use Mario's contract (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/six-year-96-million-for-mario-williams/) for guidance.
The numbers are in for defensive end Mario Williams. And they’re impressive.

A source with knowledge of the contract tells PFT that the deal has a base value of $96 million over six years, including $25 million fully guaranteed on signing. Another $25 million is guaranteed for injury on signing, and the money will become fully guaranteed at a later date.

The deal can be worth as much as $100 million.

Williams, who made nearly $60 million in six seasons with the Texans, will earn $53 million in his first three seasons with the Bills.

So we give Jj a $25M signing bonus, then first three years salaries of $2.5M, $3.5M, & $3.5M (his cap number will be $6.7M, $7.7M, & $7.7M). Give him another $25M signing bonus in 2016, incresing his cap by another $5M for 2016 & 2017 so his first three years would be $6.7 in 2015, $12.7M in 2016, & $12.7M in 2017.

If Schaub is a June 1st cut in 2014, the Texans would be $26M under the cap (http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans)in 2015, Jj's new contract ($6.7M) would still allow us $19M to sign other FAs..... maybe Mallet.

If OB likes Mallet enough, I'd sign him to a 5 year deal. $10M bonus, $2M salary throughout, & an additional $1M roster bonus for years 2 through 5. That would be $7M against the 2014 cap & $6M for years 2 through 5.

He gets $10M up front ($5M signing, $5M roster bonus) (Luck got $14M (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82aabdad/article/andrew-luck-signs-221m-indianapolis-colts-contract), Bridgewater will probably get $14M+) & a contract worth $24M (Luck got $22M, Bridgewater will probably get $22M+). He'll count $7M against the 2014 cap (money gained from making Schaub a June 1st cut). We can cut him after the season (if he doesn't live up to expectations) & only have $4M of dead money ($1M less each consecutive year).




I guess you can let him walk? That's not what I want. And you sure as hell are NOT going to franchise tag a former defensive player of the year and the best at his position. Despite these clowns saying it's possible, it is ABSOLUTELY not. I will eat my words if it happens, but I do not fear that one bit.



He didn't play like a former defensive player of the year in 2013. I'm only throwing that out there because I believe most of us here already over-estimate his value. He has another season like that in 2014, no way should we offer him Mario+ money.

Also, we have a team option for a 5th year at $8.25M (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101771) then after that third year, if he doesn't look like the former defensive player of the year, damn right I'll franchise him if I have to.

TexansSeminole
01-24-2014, 02:32 PM
You'd think the draft would be enough to discuss, but apparently there is room for imaginary future salary cap issues as well.

Blake
01-24-2014, 02:35 PM
You'd think the draft would be enough to discuss, but apparently there is room for imaginary future salary cap issues as well.

Rep.

thunderkyss
01-24-2014, 02:42 PM
I'm not for extending Mallett before he plays. But yes, you could sign Mallett and Watt to a new contract before the 2015 season if Mallett plays well. If he doesn't you can draft a QB in the better QB 2015 draft. It's a win-win if you ask me.

If you don't sign Mallet to a multi year deal before the 2014 season, he'll want to test FA if he plays well. You'll be competing with what everyone else "could" offer him & with guys like Cutler, Romo, & Ryan recently signing a one year deal, if Mallet plays as well as we hope, some idjit franchise will probably offer him that kind of money.

In my deal, he gets a contract similar to a QB taken with the #1 overall & we're not married to him if he doesn't play well.

thunderkyss
01-24-2014, 02:45 PM
I hear you. It's all good. My questions were rhetorical. The truth is you can't sign JJ Watt and a new QB without cutting half of this team.

If we get Winston or Mariota I can live. I HATE Hundley. I do want it now. Maybe cause this city sucks. Astros are good for a couple years then get swept in the World Series and then basically become THE dumpster fire of MLB the last 3 years.


If you can't sign Ryan Mallet to a long term deal & Jj Watt, you won't be able to sign Mariota or Winston if you're even in a position to get them.

WolverineFan
01-24-2014, 04:05 PM
He didn't play like a former defensive player of the year in 2013. I'm only throwing that out there because I believe most of us here already over-estimate his value. He has another season like that in 2014, no way should we offer him Mario+ money.


According to Pro Football Focus, Watt actually graded out higher this year than last year. I think he graded out at 100 last year and 103 this year. The 2nd best 3-4 DE this year graded out at around 60. The numbers weren't there because he faced twice as many double teams, but he actually had more sack/pressures this year than last year.

(Don't have a link for the above. It was in one of the PFF threads on the board about a month ago).

Point is, don't always believe the stats. The numbers weren't there this year, but according to many outlets, Watt was even more dominant this year than last year.

matts290
01-24-2014, 04:18 PM
He didn't play like a former defensive player of the year in 2013. I'm only throwing that out there because I believe most of us here already over-estimate his value. He has another season like that in 2014, no way should we offer him Mario+ money.


Watt is the most valuable non-QB player in the NFL, hands down. More valuable than Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, or Jamaal Charles. He deserves whatever money is coming to him and I hope we free up the space to pay it ourselves.

Marshall
01-24-2014, 04:22 PM
Mario got $96M. Just to make it easy, let's use Mario's contract (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/six-year-96-million-for-mario-williams/) for guidance.


So we give Jj a $25M signing bonus, then first three years salaries of $2.5M, $3.5M, & $3.5M (his cap number will be $6.7M, $7.7M, & $7.7M). Give him another $25M signing bonus in 2016, incresing his cap by another $5M for 2016 & 2017 so his first three years would be $6.7 in 2015, $12.7M in 2016, & $12.7M in 2017.

If Schaub is a June 1st cut in 2014, the Texans would be $26M under the cap (http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans)in 2015, Jj's new contract ($6.7M) would still allow us $19M to sign other FAs..... maybe Mallet.

If OB likes Mallet enough, I'd sign him to a 5 year deal. $10M bonus, $2M salary throughout, & an additional $1M roster bonus for years 2 through 5. That would be $7M against the 2014 cap & $6M for years 2 through 5.

He gets $10M up front ($5M signing, $5M roster bonus) (Luck got $14M (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82aabdad/article/andrew-luck-signs-221m-indianapolis-colts-contract), Bridgewater will probably get $14M+) & a contract worth $24M (Luck got $22M, Bridgewater will probably get $22M+). He'll count $7M against the 2014 cap (money gained from making Schaub a June 1st cut). We can cut him after the season (if he doesn't live up to expectations) & only have $4M of dead money ($1M less each consecutive year).





He didn't play like a former defensive player of the year in 2013. I'm only throwing that out there because I believe most of us here already over-estimate his value. He has another season like that in 2014, no way should we offer him Mario+ money.

Also, we have a team option for a 5th year at $8.25M (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101771) then after that third year, if he doesn't look like the former defensive player of the year, damn right I'll franchise him if I have to.

I think you might want to reevaluate that statement. He was perhaps even better in 2013, even though the stats were down. His TFL skyrocketed as his PD and Sacks went down.

But then again, I'm not an NFL scout or coach so what do I know?

Texecutioner
01-24-2014, 05:10 PM
General consensus is he looks awful at Senior Bowl practices so far but will still be overdrafted. Accuracy is on par with this guy's...

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3483917/bull-durham-o.gif

:spit: sorry but that is fricken Hilarious!!

Texecutioner
01-24-2014, 05:15 PM
I think he is more interested in pot stirring and making any and every argument against TB as the favorite is his latest campaign.

Nailed it.

JB
01-25-2014, 01:57 PM
I guess you can let him walk? That's not what I want. And you sure as hell are NOT going to franchise tag a former defensive player of the year and the best at his position. Despite these clowns saying it's possible, it is ABSOLUTELY not. I will eat my words if it happens, but I do not fear that one bit.


IIRC, he's under contract for 2014 and a team option for 2015. If you don't resign him after 2014, you try again after 2015. If you can't work it out ( which I don't forsee ) then you franchise him if you have to for 2016. I have no problem with that at all. Dude is face of the franchise now, he's gonna get his money and it will be from the Texans. I don't know why you would think there would be a problem is he isn't signed after 2014. Recent history shows he will be, but if not, it's not the end of the world

TexansFTW
01-28-2014, 05:30 PM
IIRC, he's under contract for 2014 and a team option for 2015. If you don't resign him after 2014, you try again after 2015. If you can't work it out ( which I don't forsee ) then you franchise him if you have to for 2016. I have no problem with that at all. Dude is face of the franchise now, he's gonna get his money and it will be from the Texans. I don't know why you would think there would be a problem is he isn't signed after 2014. Recent history shows he will be, but if not, it's not the end of the world

I was going by http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/j.j.-watt/ that said he was an unrestricted FA at the end of 2014. I didn't understand the new CBA well enough and didn't realize that EVERY first round pick got a team option 5th year.

I was incorrect and for this I apologize. This helped me better understand:

http://in2theleague.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/nfl-cba-series-5th-year-option-for-1st-round-picks/

JB
01-28-2014, 06:00 PM
I was going by http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/j.j.-watt/ that said he was an unrestricted FA at the end of 2014. I didn't understand the new CBA well enough and didn't realize that EVERY first round pick got a team option 5th year.

I was incorrect and for this I apologize. This helped me better understand:

http://in2theleague.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/nfl-cba-series-5th-year-option-for-1st-round-picks/

I wasn't sure either, just remembered reading it here :handshake:

Thanks for posting that link

Playoffs
02-08-2014, 11:36 AM
tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top

Matt Waldman ‏@MattWaldman
If you think draft QB = draft immediate starter or don't even try, then (dons caveman voice) Thomas-bad, ugh...

The fun thing about the draft is that there's a lot of fun nuance to explore. It's not for everyone. Some folks want good/bad.

I wouldn't draft Thomas with the thought of him as my starter. I would draft as a project with tremendous upside but maintain skepticism

I don't know where Thomas is slated to go, but if the interview/promise between the ears checks out and he was there in 5th round, I'd do it

But there are also plays where he looks really comfortable around a tight pocket and finds the check down or makes strong decision.

Logan Thomas reacts to pressure too late. The poise, thinking under pressure almost freezes up at times. Can this be overcome? Depends why.

Where the book on Thomas gets scary is pressure, but in a different way than Garoppolo. Jimmy G reacts to pressure way too early.

You don't see that from a guy like Garoppolo who was the hot thing two weeks ago in this community. And that QB has some issues w/pressure.

Logan Thomas also plays in an offense that allowed him to work from center and use a variety of play fakes, drops while reading field

Logan Thomas flashes skill to climb the pocket, keep the eyes downfield and make some beautiful intermediate/deep throw-timing/placement/acc

Now that I've scared people off, I'll tell you why Thomas surprised me on tape in a good way.

This is the hing about Twitter. Folks who love Thomas act as if I think he's a top guy. Those who don't think I'm nuts. Neither asked why.

I have more to watch with Thomas, but I see upside as a throw and pocket player that is promising in the right round/situation.

A player who has surprised me on tape in a good way is VaTech QB Logan Thomas.

WolverineFan
02-08-2014, 02:16 PM
Thomas isn't too late to sense pressure. He's oblivious to it. Two very different things.

kiwitexansfan
02-08-2014, 06:35 PM
Thomas isn't too late to sense pressure. He's oblivious to it. Two very different things.

Isn't that better than happy feet?

Or does it lead to fumbles?

WolverineFan
02-08-2014, 10:10 PM
Isn't that better than happy feet?

Or does it lead to fumbles?

It leads to getting sacked 5 times on 10 drop backs in the Senior Bowl.

kiwitexansfan
02-09-2014, 12:31 AM
It leads to getting sacked 5 times on 10 drop backs in the Senior Bowl.

That is less than ideal.

What was his OLine doing? Where they getting blown up, was he holding onto it way too long?

WolverineFan
02-09-2014, 11:57 AM
That is less than ideal.

What was his OLine doing? Where they getting blown up, was he holding onto it way too long?

On one of them, Seantrel Henderson (who is awful btw) got blown by for an easy sack.

On another, an overload blitz to the same side didn't get picked up and they got an easy sack.

On both plays Thomas was oblivious to the blitz and took a sack without even seeing it coming.

On the other 3 sacks he held the ball too long and had no clue where the rush was. He took 3-4 of the sacks on 3rd down IIRC.

kiwitexansfan
02-09-2014, 04:01 PM
Thanks Wolverine.

Fascinated to see where he ends up getting drafted (if he gets drafted).

WolverineFan
02-09-2014, 04:05 PM
Thanks Wolverine.

Fascinated to see where he ends up getting drafted (if he gets drafted).

I wouldn't be surprised if he went in the 3rd round. Maybe even the 2nd. Some team will become enamored with his physical gifts and overlook his flaws because they think "but I can coach him up".

Don't be shocked if the 49ers target him with one of their early picks. Would be such a Jimmy Harbaugh move. Would also be the best case scenario for Thomas, IMO. Harbaugh can make any QB look good and he will get proper coaching in SF while holding a clipboard instead of a football.