PDA

View Full Version : Potential Cap Casualties


Marshall
01-19-2014, 04:54 PM
This is simply a rundown of players offering Potential Cap Saving in 2014 with last contract year in parenthesis:

Danieal Manning $4.5M (2014)
Owen Daniels $4.5M (2014)
Matt Shaub $4M (2016)
Jonathan Joseph $3.75M (2015)
Andre Johnson $3.68M (2016)
Kareem Jackson $3.09M (2014)
Chris Meyers $3M (2015)
Shane Lechler $1.42M (2015)
Derek Newton $1.39M (2014)
Brooks Reed $1.02M (2014)
Arian Foster $1M (2016)
Brice McCain $850K (2015)
Brandon Harris $825K (2014)
Tim Jamison $730K (2014)

The rest offer little cap saving since their replacements will cost a similar amount.

Some, like Shaub offer more cap savings in subsequent years.

infantrycak
01-19-2014, 06:28 PM
Where did you get your numbers? Derek Newton is a $645k savings to cut. AJ is about $200k.

JB
01-19-2014, 06:46 PM
Where did you get your numbers? Derek Newton is a $645k savings to cut. AJ is about $200k.

Those have to be June 1st savings.

srrono
01-19-2014, 09:20 PM
NE is in need of a Center I could see HOU trading away Myers to NE instead of straight cutting him.

aussie_texan
01-19-2014, 09:24 PM
NE is in need of a Center I could see HOU trading away Myers to NE instead of straight cutting him.

We are going to get a new QB no way we get rid of our veteran pro bowl centre.

infantrycak
01-19-2014, 09:27 PM
NE is in need of a Center I could see HOU trading away Myers to NE instead of straight cutting him.

Why would the Texans do that?

2slik4u
01-19-2014, 10:00 PM
we are going to get a new qb no way we get rid of our veteran all-pro centre.

ftfy

aussie_texan
01-19-2014, 10:03 PM
ftfy

:tiphat:

Marshall
01-19-2014, 10:12 PM
Where did you get your numbers? Derek Newton is a $645k savings to cut. AJ is about $200k.

http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2014

They do have the base salary messed up. Good catch.

DocBar
01-19-2014, 10:25 PM
This offseason should be very interesting. I cant wait to see how Obie judges talent. Obviously the last regime wasn't very good at it. Too many mid-round failures.

Texian
01-19-2014, 10:45 PM
We are going to get a new QB no way we get rid of our veteran pro bowl centre.

Common sense and logic, a rarity around here.

srrono
01-20-2014, 12:14 AM
Why would the Texans do that?

#1 Ben Jones is a cheaper alternative.
#2 The Title of the thread is Cap Casualties I just thought Myers could bring value with his exit, so if I say Myers is a cap casualty would that be better for you?

infantrycak
01-20-2014, 12:20 AM
#1 Ben Jones is a cheaper alternative.
#2 The Title of the thread is Cap Casualties I just thought Myers could bring value with his exit, so if I say Myers is a cap casualty would that be better for you?

No, I think it would be a ridiculous idea to get rid of him either by cut or trade.

If by cheaper alternative you mean someone breathing then yes Ben Jones can fill that role.

Sigma
01-20-2014, 03:28 AM
No, I think it would be a ridiculous idea to get rid of him either by cut or trade.

If by cheaper alternative you mean someone breathing then yes Ben Jones can fill that role.

Pick me! Pick me!

:woot2:

I'm 6'0'' - 132 lbs :)

SAMURAITEXAN
01-20-2014, 03:56 AM
Pick me! Pick me!

:woot2:

I'm 6'0'' - 132 lbs :)

Can you carry water bottle from point A to point B (about 20 yds) within 15 secs? And, on the way back to sideline, kick opponents butt and escape? If you can, I think you will have very good chance to be hired by the Texans.:secret:

Sigma
01-20-2014, 04:28 AM
Can you carry water bottle from point A to point B (about 20 yds) within 15 secs? And, on the way back to sideline, kick opponents butt and escape? If you can, I think you will have very good chance to be hired by the Texans.:secret:

Idk, I'd hate to hurt my ankle on some million dollar butt :)

SAMURAITEXAN
01-20-2014, 04:52 AM
Idk, I'd hate to hurt my ankle on some million dollar butt :)

Ha ha :perfect10:

Marshall
01-20-2014, 05:57 AM
“If you take a highly intelligent person and give them the best possible, elite education, then you will most likely wind up with an academic who is completely impervious to reality.” Halton Arp

I think I've found a new independent thinker. Bravo! (or is it Brava, I forget???)

jasonotc
01-20-2014, 06:31 PM
http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2014

They do have the base salary messed up. Good catch.

Those players all earned salary escalators so those salaries are all correct http://overthecap.com/2014-nfl-salary-increases/

Marshall
01-20-2014, 06:39 PM
#1 Ben Jones is a cheaper alternative.
#2 The Title of the thread is Cap Casualties I just thought Myers could bring value with his exit, so if I say Myers is a cap casualty would that be better for you?

To be clear, the thread is titled POTENTIAL Cap Casualties because they offer Cap savings. It is not suggested cuts or or even cuts I agree with. They are all players who might offer cap relief.

Norg
01-20-2014, 07:11 PM
guys if we are in rebuilding mode get rdy for our team to be gutted

if we don't rebuild and play it safe then except I guess a 6-10 7-9 is the best u can hope for

Corrosion
01-21-2014, 08:42 AM
Cutting JJo makes little sense to me. You have an initial savings of $3.75M but what is the cost of replacing him ??

It likely takes a quality draft choice or a solid FA to replace him. Can we afford to use a draft pick in rounds 1-3 to fill that spot this season ?? How much does a mid level talent FA cost at the position ??

Cutting him after next season costs you next to nothing. Might be more economical in terms of cap space and assets letting him play out this season and then fill the void when you can either use a quality draft pick or a top end FA.

Corrosion
01-21-2014, 09:10 AM
guys if we are in rebuilding mode get rdy for our team to be gutted

if we don't rebuild and play it safe then except I guess a 6-10 7-9 is the best u can hope for

If you've listened to McNair , he seems to think this team has loads of talent and that all its going to take is a tweak or two to the roster to be contenders again.
Don't expect a completely retooled roster if that is in fact the case.

Honestly I agree with him that if the major positions are solved with high quality talent , this team can win. Problem is the main position of need is the most important in football and I don't see a quick fix at QB.
I really don't see a FA or veteran who's available that will come in be the savior of the team.
I also cant expect a rookie QB to come in and lead this team to the playoffs .... It could happen , but I don't expect it.

No matter what else is done , looking at the landscape of the NFL , its hard to expect better a record better than .500 next season .... I think you have to build this roster with 2015 and beyond in mind .... with this being a development year for your QB.

infantrycak
01-21-2014, 10:23 AM
Cutting JJo makes little sense to me. You have an initial savings of $3.75M but what is the cost of replacing him ??

It likely takes a quality draft choice or a solid FA to replace him. Can we afford to use a draft pick in rounds 1-3 to fill that spot this season ?? How much does a mid level talent FA cost at the position ??

Cutting him after next season costs you next to nothing. Might be more economical in terms of cap space and assets letting him play out this season and then fill the void when you can either use a quality draft pick or a top end FA.

Gregory Toler was added by the Colts this last season for $4.75 mil per year. The odds of replacing JJo much less upgrading him without spending more than they would save are remote.

Corrosion
01-21-2014, 10:48 AM
Gregory Toler was added by the Colts this last season for $4.75 mil per year. The odds of replacing JJo much less upgrading him without spending more than they would save are remote.

That's what I'm getting at .... People see the dollar figure and think that is the saved amount , yet they don't consider what the cost is to fill the position ...


Cutting JJo and replacing him with a player comparable to Toler .... is a net loss of $1m.

There are instances where that is acceptable , for instance if they want to free up cap space in future years .... which might not be a horrible idea for this team considering their immediate future is highly questionable. (Who's the QB ?!)

TexansFTW
01-21-2014, 01:01 PM
This is simply a rundown of players offering Potential Cap Saving in 2014 with last contract year in parenthesis:

Danieal Manning $4.5M (2014) - I would understand it, but I don't like it. Our secondary took a big blow when he went out last year and to me, it was clear he brings value and 4.5 for his value is very affordable IFF we do plan on being a playoff team next year
Owen Daniels $4.5M (2014) - This is one I've been calling for, for better part of a year and I think now is time.
Matt Shaub $4M (2016) - This is probably the most likely
Jonathan Joseph $3.75M (2015) - I hate this as spoken about in many other threads, just read Corrosion above me
Andre Johnson $3.68M (2016) - Nope
Kareem Jackson $3.09M (2014) - Nope, CBs are some of the most expensive defensive players on the market, this is just fine.
Chris Meyers $3M (2015) - dumbest one of them all, I was surprised it even got entertained on page 1.
Shane Lechler $1.42M (2015) - He's just too good of a punter, I don't want to do this, but I suppose I would understand
Derek Newton $1.39M (2014) - No Brainer. This guy is so dead to me.
Brooks Reed $1.02M (2014) - I really don't like him, but his cost is too team friendly. Hopefully we can draft a quality OLB and move this guy inside to see if he has any redeeming qualities before we let this loser walk next year.
Arian Foster $1M (2016) - Very stupid, not as stupid as Myers though.
Brice McCain $850K (2015) - I absolutely hate both he and Harris, but due to lack of depth I feel that we need to keep 1 and leave the other, who we keep and who we let walk matters little to me. I guess I'd rather keep Harris only because of where he was drafted and the hype he once had, but I don't care.
Brandon Harris $825K (2014) - See Brice McCain
Tim Jamison $730K (2014) - not a fan of his, but if Antonio walks which is very possible, this loser is going to be valuable depth that we need

My 2 cents in red bold. I'm not saying YOU are dumb by any means when I say this dumb, because you've just offered a list of POTENTIAL cap savings FYI.

srrono
01-21-2014, 01:47 PM
Cut & Restructure Candidates (http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/46063/309/cut--and--restructure-candidates)
Quarterbacks

Sam Bradford ($14.015 million)
Matt Schaub ($10 million + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses)
Mark Sanchez ($9 million + $2 million roster bonus)
Matt Moore ($4 million)
Kyle Orton ($3.25 million)
Jason Campbell ($3 million + $250,000 roster bonus)
Matt Cassel ($3.15 million)
Kevin Kolb ($2 million + $1 million roster bonus)
Ryan Fitzpatrick ($2.75 million)
Chase Daniel ($2.35 million)
Matt Hasselbeck ($1.75 million + $500,000 roster bonus)
Blaine Gabbert ($2,011,587)
Christian Ponder ($1,760,277)
Brandon Weeden ($1.125 million)

Running Backs

Jonathan Stewart ($1.5 million + $6.875 million option bonus)
Chris Johnson ($8 million)
Frank Gore ($3.3 million + $3.15 million in bonuses)
Ray Rice ($4 million)
Darren Sproles ($3.4 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Steven Jackson ($3 million)
Michael Bush ($2.8 million + $50,000 workout bonus)
Pierre Thomas ($2.5 million + $300,000 roster bonus)
Fred Jackson ($2.45M + $93,750 in per-game roster bonuses + $100K workout bonus)
BenJarvus Green-Ellis ($2.3 million + $200,000 workout bonus)
Shonn Greene ($2.3 million)
DeAngelo Williams ($1.85 million + $150,000 workout bonus)
Jason Snelling ($1.375 million)
Justin Forsett ($1.1 million)
Ryan Williams ($1,007,832 + $50,000 workout bonus)
Mike Goodson ($1 million)
Cedric Peerman ($1 million)

Fullbacks

Le'Ron McClain ($2.5 million)
Vonta Leach ($1.75 million)

Wide Receivers

Santonio Holmes ($8.25 million + $1 million roster bonus + $250K workout bonus)
Sidney Rice ($8.5 million)
Steve Smith ($4 million + $3 million option bonus)
Stevie Johnson ($3.65 million + $1.75 million roster bonus + $275K workout bonus)
Miles Austin ($5.5 million)
Nate Burleson ($5.5 million)
Nate Washington ($4.8 million)
Lance Moore ($3.1 million + $500,000 roster bonus + $200K workout bonus)
Jason Avant ($2.25 million + $1 million roster bonus)
Davone Bess ($3.067 million)
Malcom Floyd ($2.75 million)
Earl Bennett ($2.35 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Brad Smith ($1.3 million)
Matt Slater ($1.2 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Jon Baldwin ($1,274,765)
Eric Weems ($1 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Arrelious Benn ($1 million)

Offensive Linemen

Carl Nicks ($7 million)
Chris Snee ($6.95 million)
David Stewart ($6.4 million)
Levi Brown ($6 million + $250,000 workout bonus)
Davin Joseph ($6 million)
Scott Wells ($5.5 million)
Marshal Yanda ($5.5 million)
David Baas ($4.75 million + $250,000 workout bonus)
Daryn Colledge ($4.8 million + $200,000 workout bonus)
Uche Nwaneri ($3.775 million + $1 million roster bonus + $25K workout bonus)
Jeromey Clary ($4.55 million)
Harvey Dahl ($2 million + $2 million roster bonus)
Samson Satele ($3.9 million)
Mike Brisiel ($3.85 million)
Todd Herremans ($3 million)
Dan Connolly ($3 million)
Erik Pears ($2.75 million + $100,000 roster bonus + $50K workout bonus)
Mackenzy Bernadeau ($2.75 million)
Kyle Cook ($2.5 million)
Rob Sims ($2.2 million)
Leroy Harris ($1.85 million)
Nate Garner ($1.6 million + $25,000 workout bonus)
Phil Costa ($1.5 million)
Jermey Parnell ($1.5 million)
Garrett Reynolds ($1.285 million + $43,750 roster bonus)
Corey Hilliard ($1.285 million)

Tight Ends

Marcedes Lewis ($6.7 million + $150,000 workout bonus)
Heath Miller ($6.02 million)
Zach Miller ($4.8 million + $1 million roster bonus + $200K workout bonus)
Antonio Gates ($5 million)
Owen Daniels ($4.5 million)
Brent Celek ($4 million + $75,000 workout bonus)
John Carlson ($3.9 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
James Casey ($3.985 million)
Craig Stevens ($3.4 million)
Jacob Tamme ($3 million)
Joel Dreessen ($2.5 million)
Jermaine Gresham ($2,135,750 + $200,000 workout bonus)
Ben Watson ($1 million + $250,000 roster bonus + $50,000 workout bonus)
Gary Barnidge ($1.15 million)

Defensive Linemen

Julius Peppers ($13.9 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
DeMarcus Ware ($12.25 million)
Will Smith ($10.4 million + $1 million roster bonus)
Vince Wilfork ($7.5 million + $800,000 workout bonus)
Chris Clemons ($7.5 million)
Adam Carriker ($4.7M + $2M option bonus + $50K workout bonus + $250K roster bonus)
Ahtyba Rubin ($6.6 million + $300,000 workout bonus)
Jason Babin ($6 million)
Kamerion Wimbley ($6 million)
Darnell Dockett ($5.5 million + $250,000 workout bonus)
Barry Cofield ($4.55 million + $300,000 roster bonus + $150,000 workout bonus)
Kendall Langford ($5 million)
Brodrick Bunkley ($4.4 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Mathias Kiwanuka ($4.375 million + $50,000 workout bonus)
Stephen Bowen ($4.4 million)
Letroy Guion ($3.95 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Domata Peko ($3.965 million)
Cory Redding ($3.5 million)
Isaac Sopoaga ($3.5 million)
Osi Umenyiora ($2.5 million + $1 million roster bonus)
Dwight Freeney ($2.5 million + $500K roster bonus + $500K in per-game roster bonuses)
Jason Jones ($2.85 million)
Robert Geathers ($2.5 million + $300,000 workout bonus)
Kroy Biermann ($2.55 million)
Tyson Alualu ($2,371,500 + $150,000 workout bonus)
Tommy Kelly ($1.95 million + $500K in per-game roster bonuses + $50K workout bonus)
Roy Miller ($2.375 million)
Derek Landri ($1.5 million)
Kevin Vickerson ($1.25 million)

Linebackers

LaMarr Woodley ($8 million)
Terrell Suggs ($7.8 million)
DeMeco Ryans ($6.8 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
D'Qwell Jackson ($2.6 million + $4 million roster bonus + $100K workout bonus)
Chad Greenway ($6.4 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Paul Posluszny ($6.45 million + $50,000 workout bonus)
Lance Briggs ($4.75 million + $500,000 roster bonus + $250K workout bonus)
Trent Cole ($5 million)
Philip Wheeler ($5 million)
David Harris ($4.9 million)
Jarret Johnson ($4 million)
A.J. Hawk ($2.45 million + $800,000 roster bonus + $250K workout bonus)
Jameel McClain ($3.2 million)
Stephen Nicholas ($3 million)
Kevin Burnett ($2.875 million + $125,000 workout bonus)
Brad Jones ($2.5 million + $300K in per-game roster bonuses + $200K workout bonus)
Rey Maualuga ($2.25 million + $250,000 workout bonus + $250K roster bonus)
Jasper Brinkley ($1.75 million + $200,000 roster bonus + $50K workout bonus)
David Hawthorne ($1 million + $1 million roster bonus)
Erin Henderson ($1.95 million)
Kaluka Maiava ($1.535 million)
Larry Foote ($1.5 million)
Heath Farwell ($1.25 million + $250,000 roster bonus)
James Harrison ($1.1 million + $250K in per-game roster bonuses + $100K workout bonus)
Justin Durant ($1.25 million)
Ashlee Palmer ($1.25 million)
Quentin Groves ($1 million)

Defensive Backs

Antonio Cromartie ($4.3 million + $5 million roster bonus + $200K workout bonus)
Champ Bailey ($9 million + $500,000 workout bonus)
Cortland Finnegan ($6 million + $3 million roster bonus)
Troy Polamalu ($8.25 million)
Johnathan Joseph ($7.5 million)
Antrel Rolle ($7 million + $250,000 workout bonus)
Tramon Williams ($6.9 million + $300,000 roster bonus)
Ike Taylor ($7 million)
Leon Hall ($6.9 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Carlos Rogers ($6.25 million + $100,000 workout bonus + $250K roster bonus)
Michael Griffin ($6.2 million)
Louis Delmas ($5.5 million + $500,000 roster bonus)
Dimitri Patterson ($5.3 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Asante Samuel ($3.5 million + $750K roster bonus + $1M in per-game roster bonuses)
Charles Godfrey ($5 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Danieal Manning ($4.5 million)
Jabari Greer ($4 million + $400,000 roster bonus + $100K workout bonus)
Dunta Robinson ($3.25 million + $1 million roster bonus + $100K workout bonus)
Derek Cox ($4.25 million)
Thomas DeCoud ($4.2 million)
Tyvon Branch ($3 million + $1 million roster bonus)
Pat Chung ($3.25 million)
Roman Harper ($2.35 million + $650,000 roster bonus + $150,000 workout bonus)
Bradley Fletcher ($2.9 million)
Jamarca Sanford ($2.45 million)
Steve Gregory ($2.25 million)
George Wilson ($2 million)
Terence Newman ($1.9 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Craig Dahl ($1.35 million + $250K in per-game roster bonuses + $50K workout bonus)
Jarrett Bush ($1.6 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Pacman Jones ($1.2 million + $250,000 roster bonus + $100K workout bonus)
Dawan Landry ($1.5 million)
Adrian Wilson ($1.5 million)
C.J. Spillman ($1.225 million + $25,000 workout bonus)
Corey Webster ($1 million -- Voidable Year)

Kickers

Josh Scobee ($3.225 million + $25,000 workout bonus)
Stephen Gostkowski ($2.9 million + $100,000 workout bonus)
Rob Bironas ($2.875 million)
Matt Bryant ($2.75 million)
Sebastian Janikowski ($2.7 million)

Punters

Michael Koenen ($3.25 million)
Mike Scifres ($3.25 million)
Brandon Fields ($3,041,116)
Sam Koch ($2.2 million)
Adam Podlesh ($1.4 million + $25,000 workout bonus)

infantrycak
01-21-2014, 01:56 PM
Matt Schaub ($10 million + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses)

Please do not cut and paste entire articles.

They have Schaub incorrect. If he stayed next year he would not be $10 mil base, $10 mil roster bonuses and $3.5 allocated signing bonus for $23.5 mil.

He is $1 mil base, $10 mil roster and $3.5 allocated signing bonus for $14.5 mil cap hit.

edwardc5637
01-21-2014, 04:44 PM
We are going to get a new QB no way we get rid of our veteran pro bowl centre.

Thus meaning Mallet maybe coming to Houston in if that be the case.

Uncle Rico
01-21-2014, 04:57 PM
Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that JJo could play better next year? I feel like the guy was banged up pretty much all year.

The Pencil Neck
01-21-2014, 06:53 PM
I think we'll see a couple of guys get cut (like Schaub) but I expect most of our guys to be kept and have their contracts restructured in some way.

I don't expect to see Manning or JJo go. And I don't think OD is going anywhere, either.

Corrosion
01-21-2014, 07:03 PM
Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that JJo could play better next year? I feel like the guy was banged up pretty much all year.

He was one of the leagues best year before last .... Now he's a whipping boy around here .... I don't see why he couldn't return to form next season if he gets healthy. Question is , even at 100% is he the same guy he was .... or do those issues compromise his ability ?? Probably a question for Doc ....

I think we'll see a couple of guys get cut (like Schaub) but I expect most of our guys to be kept and have their contracts restructured in some way.

I don't expect to see Manning or JJo go. And I don't think OD is going anywhere, either.

JJo is one of those players I could see restructuring as it just doesn't make much sense to cut him this season ..... tho after this season he has no more guaranteed $$$ meaning they could part ways after this one with no cap penalties if they don't restructure. If they do restructure , it likely moves some guaranteed $$ onto future cap years.

Lots to think about when you extend / restructure money.

Uncle Rico
01-21-2014, 08:24 PM
He was one of the leagues best year before last .... Now he's a whipping boy around here .... I don't see why he couldn't return to form next season if he gets healthy. Question is , even at 100% is he the same guy he was .... or do those issues compromise his ability ?? Probably a question for Doc ....

Add to that the fact that the front 7 couldnt generate a pass rush and it left the back end exposed more often than not. Not sure how bad the toe injury is, but before that the groin injury is one of those things that really hamper a skill position guy IMO. When he's right the guy is a shut down corner.

aussie_texan
01-21-2014, 08:28 PM
Add to that the fact that the front 7 couldnt generate a pass rush and it left the back end exposed more often than not. Not sure how bad the toe injury is, but before that the groin injury is one of those things that really hamper a skill position guy IMO. When he's right the guy is a shut down corner.

with RAC we will play some more zone which should give Kjax and JJo an opportunity to make some plays on the ball. As you said if the front 7 get there act together this will help 10 fold on the back end

HOU-TEX
01-22-2014, 10:10 AM
He was one of the leagues best year before last .... Now he's a whipping boy around here .... I don't see why he couldn't return to form next season if he gets healthy. Question is , even at 100% is he the same guy he was .... or do those issues compromise his ability ?? Probably a question for Doc ....



JJo is one of those players I could see restructuring as it just doesn't make much sense to cut him this season ..... tho after this season he has no more guaranteed $$$ meaning they could part ways after this one with no cap penalties if they don't restructure. If they do restructure , it likely moves some guaranteed $$ onto future cap years.

Lots to think about when you extend / restructure money.

JJo played great his 1st year here and has been average to below average the past two. I have no problem saying I ragged him pretty good this past season. He deserved it. Pass rush or not, there were many times he was beaten and the QB had the ball out in less than 3 seconds.

Now, all that said, I'm not a proponent of cutting him at this time. I'm more than willing to see how he works out with the new staff. But, if I'm OB, I'm looking at his salary vs what I see on the field

_King_
01-22-2014, 10:29 AM
I'd cut OD for sure.

steelbtexan
01-22-2014, 11:06 AM
Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that JJo could play better next year? I feel like the guy was banged up pretty much all year.

I could see him playing better also.

The sports hernia thingy seems to have had JoJo down for about ayr and counting. This would be a better question for C-N-D.

DX-TEX
01-22-2014, 01:07 PM
I'd cut OD for sure.

I would cut him and sign Graham.

Texian
01-22-2014, 01:11 PM
My 2 cents in red bold. I'm not saying YOU are dumb by any means when I say this dumb, because you've just offered a list of POTENTIAL cap savings FYI.

If the Texans just cut Schaub and Foster and allocated all of their dead money to 2014, they would begin the 2015 season with over $50 million in cap space.

TexansFTW
01-22-2014, 01:52 PM
If the Texans just cut Schaub and Foster and allocated all of their dead money to 2014, they would begin the 2015 season with over $50 million in cap space.

"retool not rebuild"

badboy
01-22-2014, 03:32 PM
"retool not rebuild"Even if we (fans) get exactly whom we want at each draft pick, those players will not all be rookie of the year types as it will take time to translate to NFL. Hopkins and Swearinger are good examples imo as having good seasons but not a tremendous impact on Ws. I think we should stay away from labeling 2014 as either, just do as well as possible then expect a great 2015. This is the opportunity to dump under performing or players where $ or age to cap is not best for team. Barring trades, we should be able to utilize first five rounds to replace five vets either starters or depth. That does not necessarily include players like Schaub, both Smiths, Daniels and one of NT McClain or Mitchell. It is also possible that lower end of roster or PS or IR players could replace a player above them. I would not be surprised to see 12-15 guys from 2013 gone. 2014 is the year to make some changes without effecting ticket sales.

Going into 2015 with $30 - 50 million + 2014 draft additions + 2015 draft picks could be very sweet.

Naija Texan
01-24-2014, 01:33 PM
Schaub and probably McCain are the only ones that I want.

Manning makes sense, although it would be a shame as he is obviously the best safety we have. Daniels would be a major step back as while Griffin has shown promise, G. Graham is inconsistent and a worst blocker not having a legit TE threat is one of the reasons the team struggled last season.

If you think we can replace Joseph at corner without hitting on a top draft pick in either the first or second round you are crazy.

Playoffs
02-01-2014, 03:12 PM
Troy Chapman @Chapman_Troy
@taniaganguli Who are your top 5 cap casualties that are not free agents. Considering the rough situation the Texans are in.

@taniaganguli: The guy whose loss would help the Texans' cap situation the most should be Texans quarterback Matt Schaub. His cap number in 2014 is scheduled to be $14.5 million. Houston wouldn't recover all of that by cutting Schaub, but it would be enough to make a significant dent. Johnathan Joseph's cap number is $11.25 million next season, Owen Daniels' is $6.25 million and Danieal Manning's is $6 million. I wouldn't be surprised to see all three of the latter return, though the Houston Chronicle suggested Manning could be a cap casualty. I don't expect the kind of major roster overhaul that would necessitate cap cleansing.

Big Lou
02-01-2014, 03:55 PM
If the Texans just cut Schaub and Foster and allocated all of their dead money to 2014, they would begin the 2015 season with over $50 million in cap space.

We'd still be shy on what we need to pay Watt, LOL.

badboy
02-01-2014, 06:10 PM
We'd still be shy on what we need to pay Watt, LOL.Don't need to re-sign him for three years at least unless we want to.

Bigger decisions to be made

The Pencil Neck
02-01-2014, 06:17 PM
We'd still be shy on what we need to pay Watt, LOL.

We'll burn that bridge when we get there.

DX-TEX
02-01-2014, 06:30 PM
We'll burn that bridge when we get there.

That's a BIG bridge....

Insideop
02-01-2014, 07:59 PM
We'll burn that bridge when we get there.

Gotta sign Watt. That's a must IMO! He's a once-in-a-lifetime player! :swatter:

The Pencil Neck
02-01-2014, 09:49 PM
That's a BIG bridge....

By the time we have to cross it, Schaub's contract will be a distant memory.

DocBar
02-02-2014, 04:07 PM
We'll burn that bridge when we get there.Would the team be better off doing a long term extension now and getting it out of the way or waiting, using the franchise tag and seeing how he holds up physically?

Marshall
02-02-2014, 04:10 PM
Would the team be better off doing a long term extension now and getting it out of the way or waiting, using the franchise tag and seeing how he holds up physically?

Use of the franchise tag almost assures the player leaves within a year or two and often results in unmotivated play. It is to be avoided at almost all cost if you really value the player.

powda
02-02-2014, 04:17 PM
Would the team be better off doing a long term extension now and getting it out of the way or waiting, using the franchise tag and seeing how he holds up physically?

New offense, new defense, and new coaches wanting new players to impliment their schemes. We're already cap strapped and commiting now when its not yet necessary means failure to me. We have bigger and more urgent issues on this team. Jmo.

infantrycak
02-02-2014, 04:43 PM
Use of the franchise tag almost assures the player leaves within a year or two and often results in unmotivated play. It is to be avoided at almost all cost if you really value the player.

Let's see:

2007 franchise tagged players
Lance Briggs - still a Bear
Justin Smith - played franchise, not franchised 2nd time - to SF
Cory Redding - franchised, signed 7 year contract
Dwight Freeney - franchised, signed 6 year contract
Asante Samuel - played franchised year with agreement no 2nd tag - to Eagles
Charles Grant - played out NFL career in NO

2008
Karlos Dansby - franchised twice - to Miami
Terrell Suggs - franchised twice, still a Raven
Jordan Gross - still a Panther
Stacy Andrews - tore ACL at end of franchised season - to Eagles - never same post-injury
Ken Hamlin - franchised, signed 6 year contract
Corey Williams - franchised and traded - flop since
Dallas Clark - franchised, signed 6 year contract
Jared Allen - franchised and traded
Nnamdi Asomougha - franchised, signed 3 year contract
Marcus Trufant - franchised, signed 6 year contract

I'm not seeing the same trends you are.

JB
02-02-2014, 04:55 PM
Let's see:


I'm not seeing the same trends you are.

But you're not looking at Dunta :kitten:

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2014, 05:40 PM
Would the team be better off doing a long term extension now and getting it out of the way or waiting, using the franchise tag and seeing how he holds up physically?

If I were the GM, I'd be in contact with JJ's agent. I'd be pinging that guy several times during the year, just to keep the lines of communication open.

If they seemed amenable to a contract favorable to us, I'd try to work out some sort of deal to extend him. If not, I'd wait. I wouldn't enter into serious negotiations unless he seemed like he wanted to get something done that wasn't insane OR I had to.

After this, I'd try to see what I could negotiate when his contract is up and if we couldn't come to terms, I'd franchise him. And then I'd franchise him again.

I love JJ. He's like the perfect player. I'd do everything I could to try to keep him on our team... but... there are limits to what's feasible to what we can do and still field a complete team.

Lucky
02-02-2014, 06:06 PM
After this, I'd try to see what I could negotiate when his contract is up and if we couldn't come to terms, I'd franchise him. And then I'd franchise him again.
Defensive end has the 2nd highest franchise tag salaries, behind QBs. Keeping a franchise tag can really limit a team's cap. That's how the 2 sides generally come to agreement, with the player getting huge $$$ up front and the team getting a lower cap number than the tag. I doubt that Watt ever actually plays under the tag.

badboy
02-02-2014, 11:11 PM
Defensive end has the 2nd highest franchise tag salaries, behind QBs. Keeping a franchise tag can really limit a team's cap. That's how the 2 sides generally come to agreement, with the player getting huge $$$ up front and the team getting a lower cap number than the tag. I doubt that Watt ever actually plays under the tag.True but you do not have as much up front and guaranteed money committed; for example Cushing.

thunderkyss
02-03-2014, 12:44 AM
I love JJ. He's like the perfect player. I'd do everything I could to try to keep him on our team... but... there are limits to what's feasible to what we can do and still field a complete team.

& I loved Dunta, & OD, & Demeco, & Cushing, & I was fairly fond of Matt Schaub. Demeco is making a fine recovery & I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Cush.... but there's a good chance that Jj may not be the player we think he'll be 2 years from now.

He may be a fine player, one of the best defensive players in the league, but not deserving of being the highest paid defensive player in the league.

Besides, unless we trade for Mallet & sign him to a starter's contract, we won't be paying a QB any time soon. Andre's contract should be up in 2017, he'll be 36 years old.

Marshall
02-03-2014, 07:02 AM
Let's see:

2007 franchise tagged players
Lance Briggs - still a Bear
Justin Smith - played franchise, not franchised 2nd time - to SF
Cory Redding - franchised, signed 7 year contract
Dwight Freeney - franchised, signed 6 year contract
Asante Samuel - played franchised year with agreement no 2nd tag - to Eagles
Charles Grant - played out NFL career in NO

2008
Karlos Dansby - franchised twice - to Miami
Terrell Suggs - franchised twice, still a Raven
Jordan Gross - still a Panther
Stacy Andrews - tore ACL at end of franchised season - to Eagles - never same post-injury
Ken Hamlin - franchised, signed 6 year contract
Corey Williams - franchised and traded - flop since
Dallas Clark - franchised, signed 6 year contract
Jared Allen - franchised and traded
Nnamdi Asomougha - franchised, signed 3 year contract
Marcus Trufant - franchised, signed 6 year contract

I'm not seeing the same trends you are.

Nice research.

Perhaps I'm just recalling the exceptions rather than the rule.

mussop
02-03-2014, 06:45 PM
I think Ben jones would be a pretty good C. It's really his true position. I don't keep up with cap crap so don't know if it would be worth it or not. I don't think Myers is as good as some think he is. Now that we are changing systems I wonder if he will be as valuable.

I would really consider trading Foster NOW while he still has a high value. There is just to many red flags concerning his future productivity.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2014, 07:46 PM
From

@evansilva

Here's a rumor connecting Matt Schaub to the #Raiders. Schaub reportedly "has some fans in the organization": rotoworld.com/player/nfl/16/…
4:53pm - 3 Feb 14

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/16/matt-schaub


RECENT NEWS
National Football Post's Len Pasquarelli passes along "scuttlebutt" that the Raiders may pursue Matt Schaub once the Texans release him.
Schaub's release is a mere formality, as he's owed $11 million in 2014 salary and bonuses and isn't worth half that much. He could command $3-4 million annually on a backup-caliber deal. Per Pasquarelli, Schaub "has some fans in the organization." We hope the Raiders wouldn't be counting on Schaub to start. Feb 3 - 5:51 PM
Source: National Football Post

welsh texan
02-04-2014, 07:57 AM
From

@evansilva

Here's a rumor connecting Matt Schaub to the #Raiders. Schaub reportedly "has some fans in the organization": rotoworld.com/player/nfl/16/…
4:53pm - 3 Feb 14

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/16/matt-schaub


RECENT NEWS

On another team, I think Schaub can be a really good signing. He probably helps whatever young QB a team like the Raiders takes to develop and has a chance to be the starter if he has a good TC and they don't have anyone else ready.

Just please not the Texans, that ship has sailed.

Wolf6151
02-06-2014, 06:27 AM
I think Ben jones would be a pretty good C. It's really his true position. I don't keep up with cap crap so don't know if it would be worth it or not. I don't think Myers is as good as some think he is. Now that we are changing systems I wonder if he will be as valuable.

I would really consider trading Foster NOW while he still has a high value. There is just to many red flags concerning his future productivity.


While I completely agree with this idea, other teams see those red flags as well and his high salary, injury history, deminishing returns on the field, and off the field baby mamma drama make him difficult to trade. Also for the most part RB's have short careers and are fairly easily replaced. Giving him a high contract was, in hind site, a mistake. I think we'll be stuck with him for at least the 2014 season and then depending on guaranteed money we may cut him as a cap casualty.

Blake
02-06-2014, 08:21 AM
Over $5 million (Base Salary) Club

Johnson - 15.6 million cap #. 3.7 million in cap savings. STAYING
Schaub - 14.125 million cap #. 3.6 million in savings. CUT
Joseph - 11.25 million cap #. 3.75 million savings. STAYING
Foster - 8.5 million cap #. 1 million savings. STAYING
Brown - 8.5 million cap #. No savings. STAYING
Myers - 7 million cap #. 3 million savings. STAYING
Daniels - 6.25 million cap #. 4.5 million savings. CUT
Manning - 6 million cap #. 4.5 million savings. CUT
Cushing - 5.5 million cap #. No savings. STAYING



Other Notables

Brooks Reed - 1.5 million cap #. 1 million savings. STAYING
Derek Newton - 1.4 million cap #. 1.3 million savings. CUT

I am seeing roughly 18.3 million we can recover to replenish this squad.

Note: Numbers from Overthecap.com

infantrycak
02-06-2014, 08:32 AM
Over $5 million (Base Salary) Club

That is the over $5 mil (cap) Club.

OD's base is $4.5 mil, Manning's is $4.5 mil and Cushing's is $2 mil.

No change to your numbers, just the title.

Marshall
02-06-2014, 08:38 AM
This is simply a rundown of players offering Potential Cap Saving in 2014 with last contract year in parenthesis:

Danieal Manning $4.5M (2014)
Owen Daniels $4.5M (2014)
Matt Shaub $4M (2016)
Jonathan Joseph $3.75M (2015)
Andre Johnson $3.68M (2016)
Kareem Jackson $3.09M (2014)
Chris Meyers $3M (2015)
Shane Lechler $1.42M (2015)
Derek Newton $1.39M (2014)
Brooks Reed $1.02M (2014)
Arian Foster $1M (2016)
Brice McCain $850K (2015)
Brandon Harris $825K (2014)
Tim Jamison $730K (2014)

The rest offer little cap saving since their replacements will cost a similar amount.

Some, like Shaub offer more cap savings in subsequent years.

Revised Numbers:

Danieal Manning $4.5M (2014)
Owen Daniels $4.5M (2014)
Jonathan Joseph $3.75M (2015)
Andre Johnson $3.68M (2016)
Matt Shaub $3.625M (2016)
Kareem Jackson $3.09M (2014)
Chris Meyers $3M (2015)
Shane Lechler $1.42M (2015)
Derek Newton $1.39M (2014)
Brooks Reed $1.02M (2014)
Arian Foster $1M (2016)
Brice McCain $850K (2015)
Brandon Harris $825K (2014)
Tim Jamison $730K (2014)

Blake
02-06-2014, 08:39 AM
My mistake. Correct. Over 5 million cap club.

Blake
02-06-2014, 08:49 AM
So a big question I have is, do we release Schaub prior or post June 1st? I would think getting Schaubs dead money off the books this year would help with re-signing JJ Watt in 2015, but spreading Schaub's dead money out over 2 years would give us some extra cap relief this season if we are truly trying to "win now."

infantrycak
02-06-2014, 09:01 AM
Just as an FYI, early estimates of the result of the new Thursday night deal are for the cap to increase an extra $5 mil starting 2015.

Marshall
02-06-2014, 09:10 AM
So a big question I have is, do we release Schaub prior or post June 1st? I would think getting Schaubs dead money off the books this year would help with re-signing JJ Watt in 2015, but spreading Schaub's dead money out over 2 years would give us some extra cap relief this season if we are truly trying to "win now."

This is true. But you have to realize that not planning for Watt's big contract means the probability of his remaining is reduced. There is always a balance between immediate gratification and building for the future when managing the roster in a cap environment.

HOU-TEX
02-06-2014, 10:02 AM
Over $5 million (Base Salary) Club

Johnson - 15.6 million cap #. 3.7 million in cap savings. STAYING
Schaub - 14.125 million cap #. 3.6 million in savings. CUT
Joseph - 11.25 million cap #. 3.75 million savings. STAYING
Foster - 8.5 million cap #. 1 million savings. STAYING
Brown - 8.5 million cap #. No savings. STAYING
Myers - 7 million cap #. 3 million savings. STAYING
Daniels - 6.25 million cap #. 4.5 million savings. CUT
Manning - 6 million cap #. 4.5 million savings. CUT
Cushing - 5.5 million cap #. No savings. STAYING



Other Notables

Brooks Reed - 1.5 million cap #. 1 million savings. STAYING
Derek Newton - 1.4 million cap #. 1.3 million savings. CUT

I am seeing roughly 18.3 million we can recover to replenish this squad.

Note: Numbers from Overthecap.com

The biggest thing that stands out to me is Joseph's ridiculous numbers. Dude hasn't played up to a 1/4 of what he's getting paid the past couple years. I'm not wanting to whack him, unless Crennel finds a gem, but he best get his arse in gear. Maybe the different D will help him

Exascor
02-06-2014, 10:28 AM
So a big question I have is, do we release Schaub prior or post June 1st? I would think getting Schaubs dead money off the books this year would help with re-signing JJ Watt in 2015, but spreading Schaub's dead money out over 2 years would give us some extra cap relief this season if we are truly trying to "win now."

Count me in the take your licks in 2014 club. Cut Schaub and absorb the hit in 2014. Don't extend anyone to clear cap space unless they are part of a 4-5 year plan. Ask older/frequently injured players like Daniels and Manning to take pay cuts or be cut.

We may not HAVE to give Watt an extension soon but probably should (popular player, in prime...) Even if you don't extend him in 2015, you have money to plug holes O'Brien finds in 2014.

TheIronDuke
02-06-2014, 10:31 AM
The biggest thing that stands out to me is Joseph's ridiculous numbers. Dude hasn't played up to a 1/4 of what he's getting paid the past couple years. I'm not wanting to whack him, unless Crennel finds a gem, but he best get his arse in gear. Maybe the different D will help him

Hey man, he led the team in interceptions what more can you ask for?!

Blake
02-06-2014, 10:46 AM
The biggest thing that stands out to me is Joseph's ridiculous numbers. Dude hasn't played up to a 1/4 of what he's getting paid the past couple years. I'm not wanting to whack him, unless Crennel finds a gem, but he best get his arse in gear. Maybe the different D will help him

Hey man, he led the team in interceptions what more can you ask for?!

I think the benefit of saving 4 million is not worth losing a chance at getting JJo back into form. We all know what he is capable of. The D last year had all sorts of problems from coaching to morale. 4 million is not going to get you much in the FA market. And a rookie CB comes with flaws and a learning curve. Lets see what he can do.

steelbtexan
02-06-2014, 10:48 AM
The biggest thing that stands out to me is Joseph's ridiculous numbers. Dude hasn't played up to a 1/4 of what he's getting paid the past couple years. I'm not wanting to whack him, unless Crennel finds a gem, but he best get his arse in gear. Maybe the different D will help him

Yep

I would be for cutting JoJo/Manning/Schaub/Newton/Daniels

That would represent 16.35 mil in cap savings.

You could bring Orakpo home and sign a Mathis type CB and a Ryan Clark type S in FA with that $$$$.

Draft Clowney/Nix/Sign Orakpo/Mathis/Clark in FA and your defensive problems are basically solved.

Watt------Nix-------Clowney

Orakpo-------Cushing-------Reed--------Mercilus

KJ-------Draft pick (Sunseri)-------Clark-------Mathis

Not a bad defense at all.

thunderkyss
02-06-2014, 11:06 AM
Count me in the take your licks in 2014 club. Cut Schaub and absorb the hit in 2014. Don't extend anyone to clear cap space unless they are part of a 4-5 year plan. Ask older/frequently injured players like Daniels and Manning to take pay cuts or be cut.



I think the best thing, cap wise, would be to get Matt Schaub to take a pay cut. A $3M salary would free up $7M, which is $3M more than just cutting him.

Then I would cut him in 2015 as a June 1st cut. It would cost us $3.5 in 2015 & $3.6m IN 2016..... It frees up the most money in all three years.

I don't know if Schaub would do it though. He'll probably get $10M to sign with another team to start. Or at least compete for the starting position.

Dutchrudder
02-06-2014, 12:15 PM
Yep

I would be for cutting JoJo/Manning/Schaub/Newton/Daniels

That would represent 16.35 mil in cap savings.

You could bring Orakpo home and sign a Mathis type CB and a Ryan Clark type S in FA with that $$$$.

Draft Clowney/Nix/Sign Orakpo/Mathis/Clark in FA and your defensive problems are basically solved.

Watt------Nix-------Clowney

Orakpo-------Cushing-------Reed--------Mercilus

KJ-------Draft pick (Sunseri)-------Clark-------Mathis

Not a bad defense at all.

Ummm, what? You would start that guy over Swearinger?