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ArlingtonTexan
01-17-2014, 10:27 PM
Didn't know where to put this but according to Jason La Canfora the Texans fired director of Pro Personnel Brian Gardener.


per MistaRed post (not found link or tweet as of yet) AT

MistaRed
01-17-2014, 10:30 PM
Thanks for that AT. Here's the tweet...

Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) tweeted at 9:08 PM on Fri, Jan 17, 2014:
Texans have parted with Pro Personnel Director Brian Gardner, according to team sources. Could be plenty more front office change to come...

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 10:30 PM
Didn't know where to put this but according to Jason La Canfora the Texans fired director of Pro Personnel Brian Gardener.


per MistaRed post (not found link or tweet as of yet) AT

This is a start of the culture change/ getting rid of the main problems that have plagued the Texans org for the last 8 yrs.

MistaRed
01-17-2014, 10:32 PM
Another tweet from La Canfora:

Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora)
Many people in the league believe if Texans GM Rick Smith had his way, Ken Whisenhunt would have been his top choice. More change could come

Playoffs
01-17-2014, 10:39 PM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
GM Rick Smith will have to hire a new director of pro scouting. Bobby Grier, one of the NFL's best, is heavily involved in pro scouting dept

I feel bad for Brian Gardner, who was fired as Texans director of pro scouting. A real good guy. He was fired today with scout Kevin Murphy.
Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora
The relationship between Bill O'Brien and Rick Smith - or lack thereof - will be worth monitoring, closely in 2014 and beyond

Texans pro scout Kevin Murphy, who was well regarded within that franchise and outside it, has also been let go. More possibly to come

The Texans have also parted with at least one pro scout, and, again, more reshuffling is likely on the horizon

Many people in the league believe if Texans GM Rick Smith had his way, Ken Whisenhunt would have been his top choice. More change could come

You pay a coach $7M to buy him out of his contract, and a Belichick disciple at that, and people brace for significant change ...

New Texans coach Bill O'Brien is swinging a big stick there and much of the old guard is a little unsure of where they stand ...

Texans have parted with Pro Personnel Director Brian Gardner, according to team sources. Could be plenty more front office change to come...

Honoring Earl 34
01-17-2014, 11:11 PM
Go big or go home . :swatter:

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 11:14 PM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora

When you finish 2-14 there is going to be people getting fired. Gardner may have been the greatest guy in the world but he was a contributor to 2-14.

Although I would've preferred Whisenhunt over Obie, I'm very happy to know that BoB's token didn't set the franchises future.

Norg
01-17-2014, 11:29 PM
rick smith nxt plzzz

DX-TEX
01-17-2014, 11:40 PM
http://img.pandawhale.com/44218-Grumpy-Cat-GOOD-meme-uFqH.jpeg

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 11:41 PM
rick smith nxt plzzz

Hopefully you are correct. But I wouldn't count on it.

Playoffs
01-17-2014, 11:45 PM
If Gardner was the guy responsible for the recent UDFA signings we made, I'd say this could be a loss. Whoever was signing those was cleaning up.

As for the Whizz stuff, I don't put much stock in what some butthurt fired scout tries to blow up as he's escorted off the premises. Unprofessional. And LaCanfora is the TMZ of NFL rumor mongerers -- zero respect from peers.

ChampionTexan
01-17-2014, 11:49 PM
If Gardner was the guy responsible for the recent UDFA signings we made, I'd say this could be a loss. Whoever was signing those was cleaning up.

I wouldn't imagine somebody with "Pro Personnel" in their title would be the one at the forefront of bringing in UDFA's.

Trap_Star
01-17-2014, 11:52 PM
any chance they bring in alonzo highsmith from the packers to replace gardner until they promote him to GM when lil ricky gets the ax in a year or two?

CretorFrigg
01-17-2014, 11:56 PM
Hell yes. This is a good sign. I want Rick Smith gone next.

_King_
01-18-2014, 12:03 AM
I think smith has one draft to prove his worth.

Carr Bombed
01-18-2014, 01:02 AM
When you finish 2-14 there is going to be people getting fired. Gardner may have been the greatest guy in the world but he was a contributor to 2-14.

Although I would've preferred Whisenhunt over Obie, I'm very happy to know that BoB's token didn't set the franchises future.

Not me.. There were 3 HC candidates that were hired this offseason that I would've taken over Whisenhunt and we hired the guy who was at the top of my list.

Whisenhunt was a losing head coach without grey beard.. So I'm glad "BoB" :rolleyes: tied Smith's hands if that rumor is true.

bOODRO87
01-18-2014, 01:58 AM
When you finish 2-14 there is going to be people getting fired. Gardner may have been the greatest guy in the world but he was a contributor to 2-14.

Although I would've preferred Whisenhunt over Obie, I'm very happy to know that BoB's token didn't set the franchises future.

What the F has Whisenhunt done to win you over?

TheMatrix31
01-18-2014, 04:15 AM
I just hope if Smith stays, he and O'Brien can figure **** out and build chemistry. I do not want a power struggle and stupid, unnecessary drama for another year.

Wolf6151
01-18-2014, 04:21 AM
I think smith has one draft to prove his worth.

Agreed. The 2014 FA period and draft will be a test for Smith and keeping his job depends on how he does. I'm glad to see the firing of these 2 guys, not that I have anything against them personally but I've long thought that our scouting dept. wasn't getting the job done very well.

welsh texan
01-18-2014, 05:55 AM
I take it this effects FA prep rather than draft prep (due to the title "pro"), if so, it surprises me somewhat to see these guys going now rather than later, OB must have been pretty unimpressed with the body of work presented to him to not wait a few months.

htowntexans1985
01-18-2014, 07:01 AM
Bill must have caught them playing solitaire on the computer instead of planning ahead for the draft.

Goatcheese
01-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Fire Rick Smith next. :foottap:

thunderkyss
01-18-2014, 08:00 AM
Bill must have caught them playing solitaire on the computer instead of planning ahead for the draft.

I am curious if OB had any say in these firings.

It's probable that Kubiak would still be here, if he'd have fired Marciano, Bush, Wade..... Benton. If nothing else, a head coach should be able to assemble a competent staff. & quite frankly I haven't been pleased with many of our position coaches.

So maybe Rick is doing what Kubiak wouldn't & shedding dead weight.

I am cautious that it sounds like I was right & Rick Smith did not have as much influence over the HC hire as I would like. Well, not that I wanted Rick Smith picking our HC, but the GM should have some influence over the HC, I think.

The HC should have absolutely no influence on scouts & directors of pro personnel.

At the very least, it sounds like our HC & our GM are the heads of two departments, reporting directly to Bob McNair.

TejasTom
01-18-2014, 09:04 AM
I wanted them to fire everyone including the janitor but Gardner will do.

Texn4life
01-18-2014, 09:06 AM
The thing is year in and year out there are journeyman type players who go on to make significant impacts for their new teams. The Texans haven't been exactly hitting on those types of signings I would say. Ball was one guy who was decent for us in certain aspects, but he was JAG.

I think this probably may have had a little something to do with it IMO. Maybe they looked at some of their reports on past free agents, and they could have just been completely off. Having known people in the scouting department I can tell you that if you miss and are way off on too many guys then you won't have a job for long. Its very possible that's what happened in this case.

Errant Hothy
01-18-2014, 09:26 AM
any chance they bring in alonzo highsmith from the packers to replace gardner until they promote him to GM when lil ricky gets the ax in a year or two?

Highsmith is in Miami, right? If I was 'zo I'd take just about any gig that got my away from that dumpster fire of an organization.

ChampionTexan
01-18-2014, 09:51 AM
I'm not pretending to know what's going on (cause I have no idea), and it could certainly be that this is O'Brien flexing his muscle, but has anybody considered the possibility that these are Kubiak guys who were simply cleared out as Rick Smith works to consolidate power at the front office level?

Both of these guys were hired by the Texans in '06, and while nobody knows fore certain, there's clearly a number of folks who believe that Kubiak was in charge of pretty much everything at the time of his hire.

Lots of folks (including me) will hate this idea, and I can't even call it speculation as I'm not saying I believe it to be true - just wondering about it.

Anybody out there seeing something I'm not and therefore can shoot this theory out of the water?

IDEXAN
01-18-2014, 10:05 AM
What the F has Whisenhunt done to win you over?
I'm not necessarily a Whisenhunt guy, but honestly why has he not been as successful an NFL HC as Jon Gruden or Cower ? OK he's much more understated and not got that flashy personality of Gruden, or dosen't look mean and slobber like Cowher, but if not for a terrible call by a ref he win's the SB just as those other two coachs .

ChampionTexan
01-18-2014, 10:08 AM
Highsmith is in Miami, right? If I was 'zo I'd take just about any gig that got my away from that dumpster fire of an organization.

He's a "Senior Personnel Executive" with the Packers.

Errant Hothy
01-18-2014, 10:14 AM
He's a "Senior Personnel Executive" with the Packers.

Ah, thanks.

ChampionTexan
01-18-2014, 10:26 AM
I'm not necessarily a Whisenhunt guy, but honestly why has he not been as successful an NFL HC as Jon Gruden or Cower ? OK he's much more understated and not got that flashy personality of Gruden, or dosen't look mean and slobber like Cowher, but if not for a terrible call by a ref he win's the SB just as those other two coachs .

Whisenhunt was probably right behind Lovie on the list of guys we didn't hire but I would have been fine with (and for the record, I have no problem with O'Brien being brought in ahead of either of those guys).

What I don't understand is hearing the primary (and almost exclusive) criticism of Whisenhunt being that he couldn't win without Warner, but then - from a generic NFL coaching standpoint - seeing how many folks put forth the philosophy that you can't succeed without an above average QB. Arizona never had a QB that was even close to average after Warner retired.

We've had some debate on this site for the last few years (thankfully no longer relevant) that went beyond the QB position, regarding whether Kubiak was capable of getting a team to the Super Bowl . Simply questioning was he capable of doing it under any circumstances. Well, that's an argument that doesn't need to be conducted as it relates to Whisenhunt.

As a somewhat related additional comment, I'm not excited at all to see that he's bringing in Ray Horton to coordinate the Titans D.

speedfreek
01-18-2014, 11:37 AM
>Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora)
Many people in the league believe if Texans GM Rick Smith had his way, Ken Whisenhunt would have been his top choice. More change could come


I agree with Rick Smith..

ObsiWan
01-18-2014, 11:57 AM
When you finish 2-14 there is going to be people getting fired. Gardner may have been the greatest guy in the world but he was a contributor to 2-14.

Although I would've preferred Whisenhunt over Obie, I'm very happy to know that BoB's token didn't set the franchises future.

What the F has Whisenhunt done to win you over?

Yes... tell us. Please.
Count me in the camp of those that think Whisenhunt's success out west was due to Kurt Warner. We don't have anything close to a Kurt Warner. Whisenhunt has never, ever shown the ability to pick a good QB let alone develop a rookie QB.
I'm actually rejoicing that Tennessee is stuck with him. I think they screwed the pooch by firing Munchak

Dutchrudder
01-18-2014, 12:03 PM
Well, there goes my inside source :(

The Pencil Neck
01-18-2014, 12:04 PM
I'm not pretending to know what's going on (cause I have no idea), and it could certainly be that this is O'Brien flexing his muscle, but has anybody considered the possibility that these are Kubiak guys who were simply cleared out as Rick Smith works to consolidate power at the front office level?

Both of these guys were hired by the Texans in '06, and while nobody knows fore certain, there's clearly a number of folks who believe that Kubiak was in charge of pretty much everything at the time of his hire.

Lots of folks (including me) will hate this idea, and I can't even call it speculation as I'm not saying I believe it to be true - just wondering about it.

Anybody out there seeing something I'm not and therefore can shoot this theory out of the water?

There MIGHT be a connection with Kubiak but I don't know.

http://media.houstontexans.com/images/9057/Media_Guides/2013MG/2013FootballOperationsStaff.pdf

Based on this document, he came over in 2006 after spending a couple of years with the Buccs. Prior to that, he was with the Niners for several years.

He could have known Kubiak from that Niners association. But I don't know.

The Pencil Neck
01-18-2014, 12:08 PM
What I don't understand is hearing the primary (and almost exclusive) criticism of Whisenhunt being that he couldn't win without Warner, but then - from a generic NFL coaching standpoint - seeing how many folks put forth the philosophy that you can't succeed without an above average QB. Arizona never had a QB that was even close to average after Warner retired.

The question is: Who's fault is that? Is it Whisenhunt's fault that he couldn't identify the right QB? Or is it his fault that he couldn't develop the ones he got?

I don't know either way on that. He did a pretty good job developing Roethlisberger and getting the most out of him when he was a young QB but then again, how much say did he have in drafting him?

He might just have a bad eye in spotting QB talent and how it's going to transition to the NFL. In which case, he's not a guy we'd want.

In a lot of ways, Whisenhunt is like Kubiak to me. They don't seem to have an eye for finding QB talent but when they get it, they can put an offense around it.

Dutchrudder
01-18-2014, 12:11 PM
I'm not pretending to know what's going on (cause I have no idea), and it could certainly be that this is O'Brien flexing his muscle, but has anybody considered the possibility that these are Kubiak guys who were simply cleared out as Rick Smith works to consolidate power at the front office level?

Both of these guys were hired by the Texans in '06, and while nobody knows fore certain, there's clearly a number of folks who believe that Kubiak was in charge of pretty much everything at the time of his hire.

Lots of folks (including me) will hate this idea, and I can't even call it speculation as I'm not saying I believe it to be true - just wondering about it.

Anybody out there seeing something I'm not and therefore can shoot this theory out of the water?

I'd say you are "getting warmer" with those statements. There was definitely more than a couple of people in the scouting department who thought Rick should have been fired, and didn't respect him as a talent evaluator, but not because they are simply Kubiak guys. I'm surprised it took him this long to give those guys the boot, but I'm not surprised they are gone. Incompetent folks always need to fire subordinates in order to cover up their own inadequacies, and that's all that is happening here.

JB
01-18-2014, 12:20 PM
I'd say you are "getting warmer" with those statements. There was definitely more than a couple of people in the scouting department who thought Rick should have been fired, and didn't respect him as a talent evaluator, but not because they are simply Kubiak guys. I'm surprised it took him this long to give those guys the boot, but I'm not surprised they are gone. Incompetent folks always need to fire subordinates in order to cover up their own inadequacies, and that's all that is happening here.

He'll run out of fall guys soon

Honoring Earl 34
01-18-2014, 12:22 PM
He'll run out of fall guys soon

We'll see who has more stroke in the future .

thunderkyss
01-18-2014, 12:25 PM
Yes... tell us. Please.
Count me in the camp of those that think Whisenhunt's success out west was due to Kurt Warner. We don't have anything close to a Kurt Warner. Whisenhunt has never, ever shown the ability to pick a good QB let alone develop a rookie QB.


Like ChampionTexan said, we all know no coach is going to go far without a QB. I don't hold that against Whiz.

He also didn't have Derrick Brooks & Warren Sapp. He took a team very similar to the one we have to the Super Bowl. So did Love Smith.

After Warner & Lienart their stabs at future QB were iffy & strange. I don't know those were his decisions or his GMs. So I don't hold those against him either.

If Rick Smith is the guy his fans say he is, I think Whiz or Lovie was the quickest path to a Super Bowl. I've got nothing against OB. I'm looking forward to next season.

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Errant Hothy
01-18-2014, 12:30 PM
I'd say you are "getting warmer" with those statements. There was definitely more than a couple of people in the scouting department who thought Rick should have been fired, and didn't respect him as a talent evaluator, but not because they are simply Kubiak guys. I'm surprised it took him this long to give those guys the boot, but I'm not surprised they are gone. Incompetent folks always need to fire subordinates in order to cover up their own inadequacies, and that's all that is happening here.

I think this is certainly possible, but on the other hand has the pro side of the scouting group done anything to write home about? Manning and Joseph shouldn't count as finds as everybody already knew what they were. Myers? And it's not so much the big names, where are the little/low cost FA moves that solidify a roster?

Will never know but I'm curious if this is an any way fallout from the Ed Reed fiasco.

Dutchrudder
01-18-2014, 12:54 PM
I think this is certainly possible, but on the other hand has the pro side of the scouting group done anything to write home about. Manning and Joseph shouldn't count as finds as everybody already knew what they were.

Will never know but I'm curious if this is an any way fallout from the Ed Reed fiasco.

Scouting other team's players for free agency isn't the only thing pro-scouts do, they also help with scouting other teams for strengths and weaknesses leading up to games. In week 1, guys like Brian, Kevin and Larry are usually at the Texans week 2 opponent's game. Both of them have been with the Texans for as long as Rick Smith, so that should tell you something. Clearly this 2-14 season wasn't simply a breakdown in the pro-scout department, but of course when making big changes even the smallest rifts can cost you your job. I have no doubt that they will find employment elsewhere, just sad to see the wrong people getting fired.

houstonspartan
01-18-2014, 12:57 PM
Interesting turn of events.

I'm guessing that O'Brien, after weeks of watching a lot of game film, went to Rick and Bob and said, "um, yeah, about our talent evaluation process..."




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Texn4life
01-18-2014, 01:01 PM
Interesting turn of events.

I'm guessing that O'Brien, after weeks of watching a lot of game film, went to Rick and Bob and said, "um, yeah, about our talent evaluation process..."




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Sounds pretty similar to what I was speculating.

Errant Hothy
01-18-2014, 01:03 PM
Scouting other team's players for free agency isn't the only thing pro-scouts do, they also help with scouting other teams for strengths and weaknesses leading up to games. In week 1, guys like Brian, Kevin and Larry are usually at the Texans week 2 opponent's game. Both of them have been with the Texans for as long as Rick Smith, so that should tell you something. Clearly this 2-14 season wasn't simply a breakdown in the pro-scout department, but of course when making big changes even the smallest rifts can cost you your job. I have no doubt that they will find employment elsewhere, just sad to see the wrong people getting fired.

So the question could become did the coaches do a poor job implementing the info gathered by the pro scouts or was the info from the pro scouts poor? Or a combination of both?

And even if they were only failing in part of their job, scouting for FAs; is that not reason enough to fire them?

Also I don't care who you are, if you voice the opinion that your boss sucks at part of their job, irregardless if it is the truth or not, you will likely find yourself no longer employed.

I agree that it should have been a total cleaning out on Kirby, but if that had happened wouldn't these guys have been fired then? I also can see how keeping the GM enabled the front office to move much more quickly in their pursuit of O'Brien.

Texian
01-18-2014, 01:14 PM
I am curious if OB had any say in these firings.


Sometimes it's the little things that can mean a lot, like Bill O'Brien being listed before Rick Smith on the HT.com website: http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front-office.html

Brian Gardner was brought in by Rick Smith to replace many of the Charley Casserly scouts that were fired by Smith. http://media.houstontexans.com/images/9057/2012_Media_Guide/Football_Operations.pdf

deucetx
01-18-2014, 01:15 PM
Like ChampionTexan said, we all know no coach is going to go far without a QB. I don't hold that against Whiz.

He also didn't have Derrick Brooks & Warren Sapp. He took a team very similar to the one we have to the Super Bowl. So did Love Smith.

After Warner & Lienart their stabs at future QB were iffy & strange. I don't know those were his decisions or his GMs. So I don't hold those against him either.

If Rick Smith is the guy his fans say he is, I think Whiz or Lovie was the quickest path to a Super Bowl. I've got nothing against OB. I'm looking forward to next season.

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Most coaches have some say in their selections. In fact, it is generally a majority. But in this situation it was stated that Whisenhunt did have a say in those choices so yes, he should be held accountable. His inability to right the quarterback position was one of the reasons he was terminated. The Cardinals GM at the time (Rod Graves) was known to defer to his head coaches on their selections as he did previously with Dennis Green.

texanhead08
01-18-2014, 01:20 PM
This is why we should have cleaned house and hired a new GM. I have no faith in Rick Smith to turn this around. We could be looking at some lean years in the near future.

Dutchrudder
01-18-2014, 01:28 PM
So the question could become did the coaches do a poor job implementing the info gathered by the pro scouts or was the info from the pro scouts poor? Or a combination of both?

It's completely on the coaches to scheme against their opponents and evaluate these things. The scouts are merely creating dossiers on every player for free agency and game planning purposes. The information is generally agnostic towards our team, or at least that's my understanding of it. I seriously doubt that system, which has been in place since Rick got here, had any deficiencies that came out of nowhere this year.

And even if they were only failing in part of their job, scouting for FAs; is that not reason enough to fire them?

Maybe, if that was the case. These guys don't really have much to do with the hiring process for free agents. That's Rick's call, and it's generally coordinated with the coach who is going to be using the player. That's why the Ed Reed thing was such a debacle, because Wade didn't have any interest in him, but Rick gave him a contract. Rick always has final say over these guys, regardless of what their evaluations say.

Also I don't care who you are, if you voice the opinion that your boss sucks at part of their job, irregardless if it is the truth or not, you will likely find yourself no longer employed.

Never said that, merely mentioned that there were rifts, and as far as I know, it came from disagreements on players. Ed Reed being the biggest one.

I agree that it should have been a total cleaning out on Kirby, but if that had happened wouldn't these guys have been fired then? I also can see how keeping the GM enabled the front office to move much more quickly in their pursuit of O'Brien.

If Rick had gone, then maybe these guys would go, maybe not. It's not uncommon in the NFL for the scouting departments (pro and college) to often retain folks from regime to regime. I'm not saying these guys were particularly elite at their jobs, just that the charlatan GM we have is likely getting rid of folks who don't agree with him and could undermine his preferences.

Brisco_County
01-18-2014, 02:34 PM
This bring some questions to mind.

If this was part of the housecleaning, why weren't they let go sooner? Either the FO was waiting to see what replacement candidates were available, or this decision was made after lengthy review.

How involved were these guys in the ranking of Sam Montgomery and Brennan Williams? I consider that third round as the first failing pebble in the dike of 2013.

Playoffs
01-18-2014, 03:01 PM
Texans "official" and unofficial Twitterers have been unusually quiet regarding this behind the scenes shakeup. I kind of expected more.

As far as Rick Smith's power, if Mr. McNair see the Patriot model as ideal... and if OB was more a McNair hire than a Rick Smith hire... and if OB turns into what we McNair hopes he'll be... we may be witnessing the beginnings of the marginalization of our GM, regardless of these moves.

The Pencil Neck
01-18-2014, 03:02 PM
I think they're actually doing what they said they were going to do back in their press conferences. They're taking a long hard review of all aspects of the team and they're going through and cleaning out the parts that didn't seem to be operating at a high level.

I'm not going to be surprised to see some more people fired before this is all over and I'm not convinced Smith is safe, yet.

beerlover
01-18-2014, 03:07 PM
Bill Pollian anyone? I've always liked his work & stand up guy who could help/work with O'Brian.

Honoring Earl 34
01-18-2014, 03:10 PM
Interesting turn of events.

I'm guessing that O'Brien, after weeks of watching a lot of game film, went to Rick and Bob and said, "um, yeah, about our talent evaluation process..."




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Bob was convinced it was coaching and not talent . Bill said it was both .

jaayteetx
01-18-2014, 03:43 PM
Bill Pollian anyone? I've always liked his work & stand up guy who could help/work with O'Brian.

The colts, other than the QB, were very average under him.

Dutchrudder
01-18-2014, 04:06 PM
This bring some questions to mind.

If this was part of the housecleaning, why weren't they let go sooner? Either the FO was waiting to see what replacement candidates were available, or this decision was made after lengthy review.

How involved were these guys in the ranking of Sam Montgomery and Brennan Williams? I consider that third round as the first failing pebble in the dike of 2013.

None at all, they are both pro-scouts, and don't review college players. Once the players go through the draft and join NFL teams as draft picks, UDFAs or practice squad guys, the pro-scouts will begin to actively evaluate them.

houstonspartan
01-18-2014, 04:52 PM
Texans "official" and unofficial Twitterers have been unusually quiet regarding this behind the scenes shakeup. I kind of expected more.



As far as Rick Smith's power, if Mr. McNair see the Patriot model as ideal... and if OB was more a McNair hire than a Rick Smith hire... and if OB turns into what we McNair hopes he'll be... we may be witnessing the beginnings of the marginalization of our GM, regardless of these moves.


Lol. I think O'Brien would have to have a couple of Super Bowls under his belt to get that kind of power. It's why I rejected the "he'll want total control!" argument when we were recruiting him. O'Brien has accomplished nothing as an NFL head coach.


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PHILLYTEXANFAN
01-18-2014, 05:11 PM
Scott pioli would be perfect for this job definitely. See kc and ne's rosters for more info.


Your man... Pots and pans

Texian
01-18-2014, 05:12 PM
Lol. I think O'Brien would have to have a couple of Super Bowls under his belt to get that kind of power. It's why I rejected the "he'll want total control!" argument when we were recruiting him. O'Brien has accomplished nothing as an NFL head coach.


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You're not thinking like someone interviewing to be a Head Coach in the NFL. Of course every interviewee will want as much control as possible. They believe, as they should, that they will be more successful with their program and decisions than someone else. They also think that giving up any control lessens the opportunity for success and they don't want to be apart of another person's mistakes. If you want me to be as successful as Belichick, then you have to give me what Belichick has, or else you're setting yourself up for more failure.

houstonspartan
01-18-2014, 06:10 PM
You're not thinking like someone interviewing to be a Head Coach in the NFL. Of course every interviewee will want as much control as possible. They believe, as they should, that they will be more successful with their program and decisions than someone else. They also think that giving up any control lessens the opportunity for success and they don't want to be apart of another person's mistakes. If you want me to be as successful as Belichick, then you have to give me what Belichick has, or else you're setting yourself up for more failure.



Not this debate again. Ugh.

Again: Bill Belechick has multiple Super Bowls.

Repeat it to yourself: Bill Belichik has multiple Super Bowls.

Bill Belichick....




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Playoffs
01-18-2014, 06:21 PM
Lol. I think O'Brien would have to have a couple of Super Bowls under his belt to get that kind of power...

Agree he'll have to earn it. But if McNair wants to mirror N.E., then that's the end game. So, if true, the more success OB has the more threatened Rick Smith's powers would be... which sets up an interesting dynamic of tension within the organization. :hmmm:

houstonspartan
01-18-2014, 06:27 PM
Agree he'll have to earn it. But if McNair wants to mirror N.E., then that's the end game. So, if true, the more success OB has the more threatened Rick Smith's powers would be... which sets up an interesting dynamic of tension within the organization. :hmmm:

Yes, that's my point: if O'Brien achieves massive, sustained success, sure, give him more power where he transitions into a de-facto personell guy. But, right out the gate? No.

Also, I don't think creative or organizational tension is always a bad thing. Nothing wrong with people disagreeing and hashing out things. We just had 8 years of what appeared to be, at least to outsiders, no tension at all, where everyone seemingly "agreed" on everything (or acquiesed to Kubiak). That got us nowhere.

Word out of San Francisco is that Harbaugh and the GM don't always get along, and may not be the best of buddies. You see where that's gotten them....

Texian
01-18-2014, 07:34 PM
Not this debate again. Ugh.

Again: Bill Belechick has multiple Super Bowls.

Repeat it to yourself: Bill Belichik has multiple Super Bowls.

Bill Belichick....




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Repeat this to yourself...Belichick had his complete control and head coach agreement before he won his first Super Bowl....say it with me now....Belichick had his complete control and head coach agreement before he won his first Super Bowl.....if you want me to be Belichick then I need everything that Belichick has and if I don't get it you're setting yourself up for failure.

houstonspartan
01-18-2014, 07:47 PM
Repeat this to yourself...Belichick had his complete control and head coach agreement before he won his first Super Bowl....say it with me now....Belichick had his complete control and head coach agreement before he won his first Super Bowl.....if you want me to be Belichick then I need everything that Belichick has and if I don't get it you're setting yourself up for failure.


Where exactly did that full control get us when we gave it to Kubiak?

Look, I'm not going to get into this circular debate with you. We agree to disagree. But I have a question: why are you here? You clearly hate the team, and think we are going to fail. So why do you follow this team and post on message boards?


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Texian
01-18-2014, 08:06 PM
Where exactly did that full control get us when we gave it to Kubiak?

Look, I'm not going to get into this circular debate with you. We agree to disagree. But I have a question: why are you here? You clearly hate the team, and think we are going to fail. So why do you follow this team and post on message boards?


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BREAKING NEWS: Kubiak is not Belichick! Kubiak was PE teacher, Belichick a Economics Major.

Why am I here?: Because Texans fans don't have to act, behave and think the way you do and meet with your approval to be consider a Texans Fan. Contrary to what you believe and think Texans Fans come in all shapes and sizes. Some drink the Kool Aid and some don't.

FYI - Me personally, I am against Head Coaches also acting as GMs and having final say on the 53 man roster. My preference are teams like the Packers and Ravens with respective GMs like Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome. The one exception worth considering IMHO is Jimbo Fisher.

houstonspartan
01-18-2014, 08:12 PM
BREAKING NEWS: Kubiak is not Belichick! Kubiak was PE teacher, Belichick a Economics Major.

Why am I here?: Because Texans fans don't have to act, behave and think the way you do and meet with your approval to be consider a Texans Fan. Contrary to what you believe and think Texans Fans come in all shapes and sizes. Some drink the Kool Aid and some don't.

FYI - Me personally, I am against Head Coaches also acting as GMs and having final say on the 53 man roster. My preference are teams like the Packers and Ravens with respective GMs like Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome. The one exception worth considering IMHO is Jimbo Fisher.


Of course fans don't have to all think alike. But you've been on this "we are going to fail!" kick since Kubiak was fired, and that's why I asked the question.


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Texian
01-18-2014, 08:24 PM
Of course fans don't have to all think alike. But you've been on this "we are going to fail!" kick since Kubiak was fired, and that's why I asked the question.


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Nope I have been on the Texans are going to fail kick since 2009. Not because I want to but because that is what the math is telling me. Up until 2009 I was as hopeful and optimistic as the rest. It would be disingenuous of me to say anything different. Trust me, I want the Texans to go to the Super Bowl as much as you do but as of right now IMHO they're wasting your time and mine.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
01-18-2014, 08:35 PM
This why I left the " main" boards, the minute you speak or share your opinion that is not pro texans everything, your considered a "troll" or you " hate" the team. But that's not the case, I believe Texian was just sharing his dislike with certain texans moves and personnel. You guys think the cowgirls boards are all cupcakes and rainbows, or is there a lot of anger posts, mainly with Ol Jerrah


Your man... Pots and pans

houstonspartan
01-18-2014, 08:44 PM
This why I left the " main" boards, the minute you speak or share your opinion that is not pro texans everything, your considered a "troll" or you " hate" the team. But that's not the case, I believe Texian was just sharing his dislike with certain texans moves and personnel. You guys think the cowgirls boards are all cupcakes and rainbows, or is there a lot of anger posts, mainly with Ol Jerrah


Your man... Pots and pans

Disagree. I don't think this board is like that, and I don't think I was implying that everyone has to think alike. Hell, I've been very critical of this organization for the last three years, and I wasn't thrilled about going after O'Brien at first. But, I'm at the point where I like to give credit for things that deserve credit. And this team deserves credit for cleaning house.

I was questioning Texian's logic about how if we didn't give O'Brien full control, then we would never succeed. The guy has yet to coach a single game, and he's branding him a failure already?

PHILLYTEXANFAN
01-18-2014, 08:50 PM
Maybe it's just watching the nfl for many years, and following teams, like when a team gave a coach full control, what was the end result. When Andy Reid was here in philly, he made the obvious bone head moves, Jerome mcdougle over Polamalu... Brandon graham over earl Thomas and jpp, two moves the fans never let go of. Plus he took that team as far as HE could


Your man... Pots and pans

PHILLYTEXANFAN
01-18-2014, 09:15 PM
Oh, he was also notorious for trading high draft picks with division rivals


Your man... Pots and pans

Texian
01-18-2014, 10:19 PM
Disagree. I don't think this board is like that, and I don't think I was implying that everyone has to think alike. Hell, I've been very critical of this organization for the last three years, and I wasn't thrilled about going after O'Brien at first. But, I'm at the point where I like to give credit for things that deserve credit. And this team deserves credit for cleaning house.

I was questioning Texian's logic about how if we didn't give O'Brien full control, then we would never succeed. The guy has yet to coach a single game, and he's branding him a failure already?

My point was coaches don't earn it, they negotiate it, up front and they always negotiate for as much control as possible. In fact it would be darn near impossible to earn it. If the coach answered to a GM and the team had considerable success, you can be sure the GM would take the credit for the players on the field and reluctant to share any of his control. Can you imagine Ted Thompson or Ozzie Newsome giving up control? I can't either, I think they think they've have earned it just as much if not more so than the coach.

beerlover
01-18-2014, 10:27 PM
I would really like to know how much control Gary Kubiak really had? I always figured a 50/50 split with Rick Smith. He took care of football operations & Rick handled the business side. Does anyone know if this has officially changed or remain status-quo?

Texian
01-18-2014, 10:42 PM
I would really like to know how much control Gary Kubiak really had? I always figured a 50/50 split with Rick Smith. He took care of football operations & Rick handled the business side. Does anyone know if this has officially changed or remain status-quo?

I distinctly remember while watching a live press conference near the end of the 2010 season, John McClain specifically asked Gary if he would consider giving up some of his control to keep his job. Gary responded with a no and that final say on the 53 man roster was in his contract. That said I do believe Gary trusted Rick to do the things the way Gary wanted them done (including finances) and to do them the way they were done in Denver.

Change or Status Quo? Sometimes devil is in the details, Bill O'Brien is listed above Rick Smith in front office listings: http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front-office.html

Brian Gardner has been fired. Gardner was hired by Smith to replace the Charley Casserly scouts that Smith had fired.

Today we learn from Jason La Canfora that Rick Smith preferred Whisenhunt over O'Brien. Make of it what you will.....

steelbtexan
01-18-2014, 10:44 PM
Disagree. I don't think this board is like that, and I don't think I was implying that everyone has to think alike. Hell, I've been very critical of this organization for the last three years, and I wasn't thrilled about going after O'Brien at first. But, I'm at the point where I like to give credit for things that deserve credit. And this team deserves credit for cleaning house.

I was questioning Texian's logic about how if we didn't give O'Brien full control, then we would never succeed. The guy has yet to coach a single game, and he's branding him a failure already?

But there wasn't a total housecleaning. Rick is still here. I gave up hope that Rick/Gary could win a SB after the 2010 season and questioned BoB's commitment to winning. That has not and will not change until 1. I'm proven wrong. 2. Rick Smith is fired.

Texian
01-18-2014, 10:52 PM
But there wasn't a total housecleaning. Rick is still here. I gave up hope that Rick/Gary could win a SB after the 2010 season and questioned BoB's commitment to winning. That has not and will not change until 1. I'm proven wrong. 2. Rick Smith is fired.

I couldn't have said it better. Great Summation! I gave up hope in 2009 after Gary hired Frank Bush without doing one interview when there were 3 Top 10 DC available at the time.

houstonspartan
01-18-2014, 11:22 PM
But there wasn't a total housecleaning. Rick is still here. I gave up hope that Rick/Gary could win a SB after the 2010 season and questioned BoB's commitment to winning. That has not and will not change until 1. I'm proven wrong. 2. Rick Smith is fired.


I agree that Rick should have been held accountable. My point has been, we have to give the team credit for hiring a coach that is willing to start over. The idea that we will automatically fail because O'Brien doesn't have GM-level control is nonsense.

Also, 2010 is also when I mentally gave up on this team. Kubiak's extension was shameful.

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thunderkyss
01-18-2014, 11:40 PM
I agree that Rick should have been held accountable.

I don't know that Rick Smith is safe yet. Sounds like he's still throwing people under the bus; trying to save his job.

& remember, Casserly was fired after the draft. McNair didn't want to bring a new scouting/contract group before the draft. Rick may very well be a lame duck GM.

ObsiWan
01-19-2014, 01:07 AM
Not this debate again. Ugh.

Again: Bill Belechick has multiple Super Bowls.

Repeat it to yourself: Bill Belichik has multiple Super Bowls.

Bill Belichick....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Repeat this to yourself...Belichick had his complete control and head coach agreement before he won his first Super Bowl....say it with me now....Belichick had his complete control and head coach agreement before he won his first Super Bowl.....if you want me to be Belichick then I need everything that Belichick has and if I don't get it you're setting yourself up for failure.

My money says Belichick had control BEFORE he won any of his Super Bowls.

Is Belichick not a disciple of Parcells? Yes.

And think back, what was Parcells' mantra:
"If you want me to cook the meal you got to let me shop for the groceries."

I feel Belichick would not be any different.
/discussion

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 03:19 AM
Whisenhunt was probably right behind Lovie on the list of guys we didn't hire but I would have been fine with (and for the record, I have no problem with O'Brien being brought in ahead of either of those guys).

What I don't understand is hearing the primary (and almost exclusive) criticism of Whisenhunt being that he couldn't win without Warner, but then - from a generic NFL coaching standpoint - seeing how many folks put forth the philosophy that you can't succeed without an above average QB. Arizona never had a QB that was even close to average after Warner retired.

We've had some debate on this site for the last few years (thankfully no longer relevant) that went beyond the QB position, regarding whether Kubiak was capable of getting a team to the Super Bowl . Simply questioning was he capable of doing it under any circumstances. Well, that's an argument that doesn't need to be conducted as it relates to Whisenhunt.

Please go ask Arizona fans what they think of Whisenhunt.. the criticism goes way beyond just not being able to find a "above average QB".

Kurt Warner playing like a HOFer is what lifted Whisenhunt, without him, he wasn't even a average coach. Success is relative and without Warner he wasn't even as successful as the "Gary Kubiak Texans" who coached with Schaub his entire tenure. Whisenhunt never even had a "Sage Rosenfels"

I said I put 3 coaches that were hired this offseason above Wisenhunt and this is the three.

Bill O'Brien
Mike Zimmerman
and
Lovie Smith

O'Brien lifted a program from what should've been absolute ruins to winning seasons and his offensive system that he coached in NE is taking over the league.

Zimmerman should've had the chance years ago and has excelled every stop he's been at. Honestly I think we would've been fine with hiring either one of these coaches.. Zimmerman has been long over due and I think he's going to be a success.

Lovie Smith was a very good coach for the bears and the only time he had a average QB (for that one year anyway), his team was in the SB.. When he still didn't have one he was still able to win games with Kyle Orton. If I was going to hire a "retread HC" it would've been him... Whisenhunt wouldn't of been on my list.

And the fact that Smith wasn't even given a voice in our HC hire makes me feel his nuts have already been cut and he needs to be fired tomorrow. It reeks of him being a lame duck G.M. the same way Casserly was.. We need a G.M. who actually has a voice and power in the room and isn't just a figure head which is obviously what Smith comes off as now.

Marshall
01-19-2014, 06:05 AM
Fire Rick Smith next. :foottap:

You just like swinging the axe, you don't really care who you swing it at.

Marshall
01-19-2014, 06:20 AM
Not this debate again. Ugh.

Again: Bill Belecheat has multiple Super Bowls.

Repeat it to yourself: Bill Belicheat has multiple Super Bowls.

Bill Belichick....Doesn't




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Corrected for you.

steelbtexan
01-19-2014, 10:53 AM
Corrected for you.

Not like everybody else wasn't doing the same thing at that time.

Belichick has his team in another AFC championship game today. What is that, 1 SB and the last 2 aFC championship games in the last 3 yrs? Yeah, as a Texans fan give me some of that.

Belichick made the AFC championship without his 2 best offensive weapons Gronk/Hernandez and a RB (Blount that has been cut from 2 NFL teams.

That Belichick guy really stinks at his job.

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 11:17 AM
But there wasn't a total housecleaning. Rick is still here. I gave up hope that Rick/Gary could win a SB after the 2010 season and questioned BoB's commitment to winning. That has not and will not change until 1. I'm proven wrong. 2. Rick Smith is fired.

The problem is that you've already been proven wrong (plenty of times).. "BoB" has had a commitment to winning since day one and I dare you to try to prove where he hasn't... I'll flash forward.. you can't. :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm late to the game, but what the hell does "BoB" even mean? You're the only person I ever see type it (Newsflash... It hasn't caught on) so you should be able to tell me... Why do you type it?

1. (since you like to number things) Is it because he's cheap? Nope it can't be that, because he's never been cheap to begin
with

2. Did he make bad hires (Only in hindsight to morons who label him "BoB").. Nope didn't do that either. He only hired the guy that led a expansion team to the NFC championship and as far as Kubkiak and his patience goes with his head coaching hires. Where is "BoB" supposed to draw the line? Is it going to happen when he keeps a coach that you don't approve of too long?

Or are you going to label the man "BoB" when he prematurely fires someone that you approved of? Which is it?

The guy's name is Bob McNair.

Lucky
01-19-2014, 11:19 AM
Wow I'm glad Brian Gardner was fired. Now, nothing is holding Rick Smith back from greatness!

Just to get something clear, what was the big FA signing that Gardner screwed up on? Was he the proponent for signing Ed Reed? "It wasn't me Bob. Gardner wanted Reed. I thought he was done, myself."

Why Gardner? Did he think that Derek Newton could hold down the RT spot? That the Texans didn't need to bolster the ILB corps? That McCain and Harris could play nickel CB in the NFL?

Look, I hope the Texans turn everything around and become a top NFL team in 2014. But, I can't shake the feeling that there is still a cancer that needs to be removed. And it wasn't Brian Gardner.

Texian
01-19-2014, 11:28 AM
The problem is that you've already been proven wrong (plenty of times).. "BoB" has had a commitment to winning since day one and I dare you to try to prove where he hasn't... I'll flash forward.. you can't. :rolleyes:

I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone that McNair hasn't been committed to winning since day 1. What is becoming clear is McNair doesn't really know how and after 12 years, 79-113, is proving that he's not very good at it.

beerlover
01-19-2014, 11:52 AM
Wow I'm glad Brian Gardner was fired. Now, nothing is holding Rick Smith back from greatness!

Just to get something clear, what was the big FA signing that Gardner screwed up on? Was he the proponent for signing Ed Reed? "It wasn't me Bob. Gardner wanted Reed. I thought he was done, myself."

Why Gardner? Did he think that Derek Newton could hold down the RT spot? That the Texans didn't need to bolster the ILB corps? That McCain and Harris could play nickel CB in the NFL?

Look, I hope the Texans turn everything around and become a top NFL team in 2014. But, I can't shake the feeling that there is still a cancer that needs to be removed. And it wasn't Brian Gardner.

When slick rick reached out his hand awkwardly, end of Bill O'Brian hiring press conference, I got that sense of, "I know you don't trust me but lets still be friends & work things out" gut feeling. I'm not sure if Rick is further up Bob's or Cal's a$$ but clearly he is playing on their sympathy to remain the GM. The only way this cancer will be removed if a 3rd party (Dr. O'Brian) can show conclusive evidence, that it needs to be removed or face dire consequences.

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 11:56 AM
I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone that McNair hasn't been committed to winning since day 1. What is becoming clear is McNair doesn't really know how and after 12 years, 79-113, is proving that he's not very good at it.

So a guy that has made billions of dollars doesn't know how to win.. LMAO

Texian
01-19-2014, 12:02 PM
So a guy that has made billions of dollars doesn't know how to win.. LMAO

Not so much in the National Football League. I believe in the scoreboard. The scoreboard says, 79-113, .411. The scoreboard doesn't lie. You can accept the reality and truth of the scoreboard or you can continue to live in denial while continuing to make excuses for all the failures. It is what it is. Besides McNair there is another 20 something Billionaires who are not very good as owners in the NFL.

TEXANRED
01-19-2014, 12:11 PM
Wow I'm glad Brian Gardner was fired. Now, nothing is holding Rick Smith back from greatness!

Just to get something clear, what was the big FA signing that Gardner screwed up on? Was he the proponent for signing Ed Reed? "It wasn't me Bob. Gardner wanted Reed. I thought he was done, myself."

Why Gardner? Did he think that Derek Newton could hold down the RT spot? That the Texans didn't need to bolster the ILB corps? That McCain and Harris could play nickel CB in the NFL?

Look, I hope the Texans turn everything around and become a top NFL team in 2014. But, I can't shake the feeling that there is still a cancer that needs to be removed. And it wasn't Brian Gardner.
I get the feeling that Smith is going to get the Casserly treatment after the draft is over.

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 12:21 PM
Not so much in the National Football League. I believe in the scoreboard. The scoreboard says, 79-113, .411. The scoreboard doesn't lie. You can accept the reality and truth of the scoreboard or you can continue to live in denial while continuing to make excuses for all the failures. It is what it is. Besides McNair there is another 20 something Billionaires who are not very good as owners in the NFL.

Umm.. last I checked Billionaires don't coach football

And how hasn't McNair been a good owner.. please fill me in, I really want to here this B.S.

Hows this for realitiy

Let me fill you in on your owner that is "BoB" (whatever the hell that means). I was never supposed to speak of this, but a truck driver who worked for "BoB" served in Vietnam and was Vietnam vet and met "BoB" numerous of times just in passing. The Vietnam vet came down with cancer due to his exposure to agent orange in that war.. He died and "BoB" took care of his widow's mortgage..

The Vietnam vet was my father in law... Damn, what a cheap POS who only cares about the bottom line huh? :rolleyes:

Texian
01-19-2014, 12:31 PM
Umm.. last I checked Billionaires don't coach football

And how hasn't McNair been a good owner.. please fill me in, I really want to here this B.S.

79-113, .411 is pretty much self explanatory. Would you be happier if I said that McNair is not only a Good Loser, he's a GREAT Loser in the NFL?

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 12:38 PM
79-113, .411 is pretty much self explanatory. Would you be happier if I said that McNair is not only a Good Loser, he's a GREAT Loser?

Would you be happier if I said you were misinformed, or called you a idiot?

Again you didn't answer my question. (If Losers were as successful as "BoB", damn, I'd love to be that kind of loser)

"BoB's" job is to hire people and then step back and give them the freedom and resources to win football games. He's done that in spades and has spared no expense in doing so. What else do you want from a owner? Let me guess.. You want Al Davis, Jimmy Jones, or maybe a owner like Bud Adams?

Honoring Earl 34
01-19-2014, 12:44 PM
Would you be happier if I said you were misinformed, or called you a idiot?

Again you didn't answer my question. (If Losers were as successful as "BoB", damn, I'd love to be that kind of loser)

"BoB's" job is to hire people and then give them the freedom and resources to win football games. He's done that in spades and has spared no expense in doing so. What else do you want from a owner?

I think new owners are trying to catch lightning in a bottle . They come in like a keeper fantasy league and try to build a team from scratch . Bob is trying to keep the fuse lit while running a very lucrative business . He thought Kubiak was the answer but caught him on the tail end of the Shanny tree success . Maybe Bill O'Brien will be a start to the O'Brien coaching tree . :fans:

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 12:52 PM
I think new owners are trying to catch lightning in a bottle . They come in like a keeper fantasy league and try to build a team from scratch . Bob is trying to keep the fuse lit while running a very lucrative business . He thought Kubiak was the answer but caught him on the tail end of the Shanny tree success . Maybe Bill O'Brien will be a start to the O'Brien coaching tree . :fans:


We have the right owner in place to win a SB... I hope O'Bren is the right coach.. and then I hope we get the right QB. You need to hit on all three to win a SB.

infantrycak
01-19-2014, 12:53 PM
79-113, .411 is pretty much self explanatory. Would you be happier if I said that McNair is not only a Good Loser, he's a GREAT Loser in the NFL?

Putting the W/L record on the owner is idiotic.

So is failing to see improvement from 18-46 (.28) the 1st four years to 61-67 (.48) and that McNair is attempting to improve further from there.

Yet another idiotic assertion is that losing 12 games in 2002 has any bearing on the state of the team or McNair's knowledge of winning now.

Honoring Earl 34
01-19-2014, 12:58 PM
We have the right owner in place to win a SB... I hope O'Bren is the right coach.. and then I hope we get the right QB. You need to hit on all three to win a SB.

Yep ... Jerry Jones got lucky but it was shaky for a bit . Jimmy drafted Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft cause he didn't trust Aikman at first . He had the Herschel Walker to trade to give him a shotgun blast effect at the draft and hit some some school studs along with Chad Hennings who outgrew the Air Force .

infantrycak
01-19-2014, 01:02 PM
Yep ... Jerry Jones got lucky but it was shaky for a bit . Jimmy drafted Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft cause he didn't trust Aikman at first . He had the Herschel Walker to trade to give him a shotgun blast effect at the draft and hit some some school studs along with Chad Hennings who outgrew the Air Force .

AND Jimmy got the best OL coach in football and they built the best OL out of relative spare parts.

Texian
01-19-2014, 01:09 PM
"BoB's" job is to hire people and then step back and give them the freedom and resources to win football games.

Well Then......The record is crystal clear that BoB has done a terrible job in trying to hire the right people and has done an excellent job in hiring all the wrong people to run his football team.

Texian
01-19-2014, 01:18 PM
Putting the W/L record on the owner is idiotic.

So is failing to see improvement from 18-46 (.28) the 1st four years to 61-67 (.48) and that McNair is attempting to improve further from there.

Yet another idiotic assertion is that losing 12 games in 2002 has any bearing on the state of the team or McNair's knowledge of winning now.

Here we go again, you enter an arena with little or no substance but only to argue because you want to argue. I would say that losing 14 games in 2013 pretty much validates losing 12 games in 2002. It validates the mindset, business plan, way of doing business, familiar pattern of behavior, 3 #1 draft picks and poor decisions that have followed Bob McNair and the Houston Texans over the last 12 years. The scoreboard doesn't lie whether you choose to believe it or not. In this case like many others you'd be better served picking porcupine quills out of your butt.

steelbtexan
01-19-2014, 01:27 PM
The problem is that you've already been proven wrong (plenty of times).. "BoB" has had a commitment to winning since day one and I dare you to try to prove where he hasn't... I'll flash forward.. you can't. :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm late to the game, but what the hell does "BoB" even mean? You're the only person I ever see type it (Newsflash... It hasn't caught on) so you should be able to tell me... Why do you type it?

1. (since you like to number things) Is it because he's cheap? Nope it can't be that, because he's never been cheap to begin
with

2. Did he make bad hires (Only in hindsight to morons who label him "BoB").. Nope didn't do that either. He only hired the guy that led a expansion team to the NFC championship and as far as Kubkiak and his patience goes with his head coaching hires. Where is "BoB" supposed to draw the line? Is it going to happen when he keeps a coach that you don't approve of too long?

Or are you going to label the man "BoB" when he prematurely fires someone that you approved of? Which is it?

The guy's name is Bob McNair.

Good to know you think I'm a moron.

Lets just say that I would've built the franchise differently and not wasted 8 yrs on Gary. Using the cap is an excuse. The truth is BoB (Who I call that because he doesn't deserve the respect to be called Mr.McNair until he puts forth the effort to put a consistent winning product on the field.

Instead of giving us the Farce that was the Kubiak era. (He still kept Rick Smith so he still hasn't cleaned house. Why because Rick has helped BoB turn a 200 mil investment into 1.5 bil. he's great for business.) Meanwhile BoB's team is going to have the 1st pick in the draft for the 3rd time in an unfathomable 11 yrs.

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 01:37 PM
Well Then......The record is crystal clear that BoB has done a terrible job in trying to hire the right people and has done an excellent job in hiring all the wrong people to run his football team.

Umm.. No.

Bob hired a guy who was able to guide a team towards a NFC championship

Then he hired a OC who had a hand in winning 4 SBs.

Gee Golly, Damn it must be nice to live in the hindsight 20/20 make believe that you do. For one split second, I'd love to see how you'd run this team.. just for one split second... and no more :rolleyes:

Yep BoB has only had two coaching hires post his expansion days. but it's obvious the horse in Houston has already spit the bit.. put up your pitch forks.. lets run "BoB" out of town :fingergun:

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 02:13 PM
Good to know you think I'm a moron.

Lets just say that I would've built the franchise differently and not wasted 8 yrs on Gary. Using the cap is an excuse. The truth is BoB (Who I call that because he doesn't deserve the respect to be called Mr.McNair until he puts forth the effort to put a consistent winning product on the field.

Instead of giving us the Farce that was the Kubiak era. (He still kept Rick Smith so he still hasn't cleaned house. Why because Rick has helped BoB turn a 200 mil investment into 1.5 bil. he's great for business.) Meanwhile BoB's team is going to have the 1st pick in the draft for the 3rd time in an unfathomable 11 yrs.

LMAO.. What a complete farce.. That is what the farce is

Those of us who have been here long enough (and there's plenty of us) know that your original complaint, which was always your original complaint of "BoB" was that he was cheap who only cared about turning a profit (oh nevermind, you're still talking about money) and winning was never really the driving force behind the decisions he made. (Newsflash.. winning makes "BoB" more money. I know, it's crazy isn't it.. he invested in the business of winning) Now he's "BoB" because "hired the wrong guy". WTF?

If your going to ***** about the guy, at least be consistent. Bob McNair (which is his name) hired the right people, at least he felt like he did at the time, and gave those people everything they ever needed to be successful. Regardless if those people succeeded of not after given everything they ever asked for isn't on "BoB"... it's on them. Hence why "BoB" fired them.

What else do you expect from a freaking owner. Seriously.. you need to take your complaints up to Cincinnati and talk to Bengal fans. Now that's a "BoB"

Texian
01-19-2014, 02:36 PM
LMAO.. What a complete farce.. That is what the farce is

Those of us who have been here long enough (and there's plenty of us) know that your original complaint, which was always your original complaint of "BoB" was that he was cheap who only cared about turning a profit (oh nevermind, you're still talking about money) and winning was never really the driving force behind the decisions he made. (Newsflash.. winning makes "BoB" more money. I know, it's crazy isn't it.. he invested in the business of winning) Now he's "BoB" because "hired the wrong guy". WTF?

If your going to ***** about the guy, at least be consistent. Bob McNair (which is his name) hired the right people, at least he felt like he did at the time, and gave those people everything they ever needed to be successful. Regardless if those people succeeded of not after given everything they ever asked for isn't on "BoB"... it's on them. Hence why "BoB" fired them.

What else do you expect from a freaking owner. Seriously.. you need to take your complaints up to Cincinnati and talk to Bengal fans. Now that's a "BoB"

Bob has spent his money as wisely as he chooses his personnel. Sadly, that too has been more numerous bad decisions. Ed Reed is a prime example. Giving David Carr $10 million Bonus the year before he cut him is another. Ahman Greene, the Foster and Schaub contracts and I could go on and on and on.....

steelbtexan
01-19-2014, 03:00 PM
LMAO.. What a complete farce.. That is what the farce is

Those of us who have been here long enough (and there's plenty of us) know that your original complaint, which was always your original complaint of "BoB" was that he was cheap who only cared about turning a profit (oh nevermind, you're still talking about money) and winning was never really the driving force behind the decisions he made. (Newsflash.. winning makes "BoB" more money. I know, it's crazy isn't it.. he invested in the business of winning) Now he's "BoB" because "hired the wrong guy". WTF?

If your going to ***** about the guy, at least be consistent. Bob McNair (which is his name) hired the right people, at least he felt like he did at the time, and gave those people everything they ever needed to be successful. Regardless if those people succeeded of not after given everything they ever asked for isn't on "BoB"... it's on them. Hence why "BoB" fired them.

What else do you expect from a freaking owner. Seriously.. you need to take your complaints up to Cincinnati and talk to Bengal fans. Now that's a "BoB"

My complaint with BoB WAS about the $$$$ that he made vs how he spent the $$$$$. I am beginning to change my mind after he spent 6 mill to buy out BO"B's contract.

Until Rick Smith is gone I wont be a happy camper. BoB hasn't been a good owner. He has made approx. 1.5 bil off of this investment and his team is picking 1st in the draft for the 3rd time in 11 yrs. That's the definition of profiteering. I truly question BoB's commitment to putting a winning product on the field. Hopefully BO'B can change the culture. Because I can tell you for sure RickSmith Aint gonna get it done. But he still has a job because BoB didn't want to have to pay off his contract and Rick has helped BoB m,ake a lot of $$$$. Hence the 2-14 record. $$$$ meant more than wins.

I don't expect you to agree. But I'm far from a moron. I just have a different opinion than yours.

Marshall
01-19-2014, 03:10 PM
So a guy that has made billions of dollars doesn't know how to win.. LMAO

I get the feeling that Smith is more of a Contracts guy than a Personnel guy. Isn't that the guy you want if you're a HC and want maximum input on Personnel? I suspect the OB has more potential conflict with Bob than Rick.

Marshall
01-19-2014, 03:12 PM
Not so much in the National Football League. I believe in the scoreboard. The scoreboard says, 79-113, .411. The scoreboard doesn't lie. You can accept the reality and truth of the scoreboard or you can continue to live in denial while continuing to make excuses for all the failures. It is what it is. Besides McNair there is another 20 something Billionaires who are not very good as owners in the NFL.

How many of those 32 NFL Franchises won Championships/Superbowls in their first 12 years of existence? I know some, but I don't think it's a large number.

Marshall
01-19-2014, 03:19 PM
Good to know you think I'm a moron.

Lets just say that I would've built the franchise differently and not wasted 8 yrs on Gary. Using the cap is an excuse. The truth is BoB (Who I call that because he doesn't deserve the respect to be called Mr.McNair until he puts forth the effort to put a consistent winning product on the field.

Instead of giving us the Farce that was the Kubiak era. (He still kept Rick Smith so he still hasn't cleaned house. Why because Rick has helped BoB turn a 200 mil investment into 1.5 bil. he's great for business.) Meanwhile BoB's team is going to have the 1st pick in the draft for the 3rd time in an unfathomable 11 yrs.

Your Fired. Shame on you for not having the foresight to match your hindsight.

infantrycak
01-19-2014, 03:20 PM
Why because Rick has helped BoB turn a 200 mil investment into 1.5 bil.

Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.

JB
01-19-2014, 03:22 PM
Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.

Don't be bringing facts up in here! :worldpeace:

Marshall
01-19-2014, 03:29 PM
Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.

Good Point. Gotta keep the ledger straight.

steelbtexan
01-19-2014, 03:32 PM
Your Fired. Shame on you for not having the foresight to match your hindsight.

Except I called this a long time ago. The failure that is BoB's on field product. So it's not hindsight.

Look at New England today for example, their starting CB's Dennard/Talib are jailbirds that came on the cheap and you have to operate like them if you want to compete with them.

steelbtexan
01-19-2014, 03:34 PM
Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.

Excuse me aprox 1 bil or so. tell you what 700 mil. you get the point.

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 03:41 PM
Bob has spent his money as wisely as he chooses his personnel. Sadly, that too has been more numerous bad decisions. Ed Reed is a prime example. Giving David Carr $10 million Bonus the year before he cut him is another. Amman Greene, the Foster and Schaub contracts and I could go on and on and on.....

Damn, I didn't know Bob was our G.M.


I'll give you Carr.. that's the only time where McNair carried a player. Everyone else though, he let the people he hired make their decisions and control their staff and the personnel they wanted to bring in.


Sorry, I still don't get the "BoB" crap. You want a example of a crappy owner who doesn't know what the hell he's doing and doesn't give two craps about winning .. you only have to look across the way..

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/houston-astros-owner-fans-write-check-10-million-215556552--mlb.html;_ylt=A0oG7nNYMNxSyjAA_IhXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMT EzMmM5Z2VyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJ UDM1Ml8x


Houston Astros' owner: Fans can ‘write a check for $10 million’ if they want a better roster

Jim Crane- "It doesn't bother me that people want us to spend more money," Crane said. "But it's not their money. This is a private company, even though it's got a public flair to it. If they want to write a check for 10 million bucks, they can give me a call."

That's what a ****ty owner looks and sounds like, That is the real "BoB" in this city here, because that team will never contend without some Billie bean A's, Tampa bay rays, and Florida Marlins magic. That "BoB" has turned a big market team playing in a big city into a small market team. Bob McNair has done the complete opposite and has spent money on this team and this city.

Has he made money? Hell yes he has, but only because this city is a true NFL city and because the moron owner before him was brain dead and decided to pull anchor...

Is it "BoB's" fault that he was smart enough to dig on a gold mine here?

"BoB" sells tickets, makes money, and has a great PR staff (what sports owner doesn't want that and it's completely idiotic for any fan to try to blame him for that)... that's all true, but can we please cut the bull crap that "BoB" only cares about the bottom dollar over winning? That's just stupid.

infantrycak
01-19-2014, 03:49 PM
Excuse me aprox 1 bil or so. tell you what 700 mil. you get the point.

I get the point that any money gained in value of the team is unrealized. It isn't money burning a hole in his pocket.

stingray
01-19-2014, 04:13 PM
Jesus h. Christ..putting texian on ignore didnt help because everybody keeps quoting his dumbass posts!!

houstonspartan
01-19-2014, 04:30 PM
Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.


Very true. My house is "worth" $100k more than I bought it for, but that doesn't mean jack until I sell it for $100k and have that amount in my bank account.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Texian
01-19-2014, 05:00 PM
Damn, I didn't know Bob was our G.M.

More so than you know...

Carr Bombed
01-19-2014, 06:52 PM
More so than you know...

Yeah I know, he's also our head coach too.

He's the entire reason why we suck ass. freaking BoB!

bayoudreamn
01-19-2014, 08:01 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24414020/more-front-office-changes-could-be-in-store-for-the-houston-texans

Rick Smith may not be here long.

JB
01-19-2014, 08:11 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24414020/more-front-office-changes-could-be-in-store-for-the-houston-texans

Rick Smith may not be here long.

nothing but speculation on his part

Brisco_County
01-19-2014, 08:30 PM
O'Brien comes from the Bill Belichick family tree at the pro level, which is a model set up for the head coach to have extreme authority and many believe that O'Brien will eventually bring in a personnel man closely aligned with him.

Logical speculation based on fact. This will get interesting.

OzzO
01-19-2014, 10:03 PM
So Kubiak brings in his GM. O'B (possibly) brings in his GM.... seems backwards.

But hey, if it works the 2nd time around

JB
01-19-2014, 10:14 PM
So Kubiak brings in his GM. O'B (possibly) brings in his GM.... seems backwards.

But hey, if it works the 2nd time around

Casserly was gonna be fired anyway. The way things transpired, I'm not so sure that it was Kubiak that bought Smith in as it was McNair in love with the Denver product.

It's only logical to think that the HC and GM should have a good working relationship. Any good corporation has to work as a team at the highest levels for teamwork to be natural at the lower levels.

TexansFight
01-19-2014, 11:47 PM
Bobby Grier should have been sent packing too. I have never been a fan. Of course, I want Rick Smith fired as well. That goes without saying.

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 12:01 AM
nothing but speculation on his part

Texans fans can only hope this rumor is true.

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 12:04 AM
Bobby Grier should have been sent packing too. I have never been a fan. Of course, I want Rick Smith fired as well. That goes without saying.

Bobby Grier still has a job?

LMAO

thunderkyss
01-20-2014, 08:14 AM
My money says Belichick had control BEFORE he won any of his Super Bowls.

Is Belichick not a disciple of Parcells? Yes.

And think back, what was Parcells' mantra:
"If you want me to cook the meal you got to let me shop for the groceries."

I feel Belichick would not be any different.
/discussion

Belichick is a different beast. First, he did not have full control in his firts HC gig.... Cleveland.

Second, he was not new to the Patriots. He was being groomed by Parcells. He was with the Patriots before he went to Cleveland, & he went back to the Patriots after he failed.

So when Belichick tells Kraft, "I want final say on the 53." Kraft wasn't, "who do you think you are??!!" he was like.... "I know this guy, worked with him for years... he worked with Parcells for years, I believe he can handle it."

ChampionTexan
01-20-2014, 08:51 AM
Belichick is a different beast. First, he did not have full control in his firts HC gig.... Cleveland.

Second, he was not new to the Patriots. He was being groomed by Parcells. He was with the Patriots before he went to Cleveland, & he went back to the Patriots after he failed.

So when Belichick tells Kraft, "I want final say on the 53." Kraft wasn't, "who do you think you are??!!" he was like.... "I know this guy, worked with him for years... he worked with Parcells for years, I believe he can handle it."

This is technically true (well, actually since you used "years" instead of "year" it's not), but may be a bit overstated. Belichick was on the Patriots staff for one year - Parcells last, and the first year they went to the Super Bowl. After that it was off to the Jets with Parcells.

I've always considered the Belichick hiring by the Pats as being driven as much by the desire to screw the Jets as it was to bring in the best HC available. However, since they clearly did both things, it goes down as a legendary hire.

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 09:25 AM
I get the point that any money gained in value of the team is unrealized. It isn't money burning a hole in his pocket.

So it's like a savings account that you get an unbelievable interest rate on?

Marshall
01-20-2014, 09:28 AM
So it's like a savings account that you get an unbelievable interest rate on?

Or is it like the 401K and retirement you had with Enron?

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 09:40 AM
Damn, I didn't know Bob was our G.M.


I'll give you Carr.. that's the only time where McNair carried a player. Everyone else though, he let the people he hired make their decisions and control their staff and the personnel they wanted to bring in.


Sorry, I still don't get the "BoB" crap. You want a example of a crappy owner who doesn't know what the hell he's doing and doesn't give two craps about winning .. you only have to look across the way..

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/houston-astros-owner-fans-write-check-10-million-215556552--mlb.html;_ylt=A0oG7nNYMNxSyjAA_IhXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMT EzMmM5Z2VyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJ UDM1Ml8x


Houston Astros' owner: Fans can ‘write a check for $10 million’ if they want a better roster



That's what a ****ty owner looks and sounds like, That is the real "BoB" in this city here, because that team will never contend without some Billie bean A's, Tampa bay rays, and Florida Marlins magic. That "BoB" has turned a big market team playing in a big city into a small market team. Bob McNair has done the complete opposite and has spent money on this team and this city.

Has he made money? Hell yes he has, but only because this city is a true NFL city and because the moron owner before him was brain dead and decided to pull anchor...

Is it "BoB's" fault that he was smart enough to dig on a gold mine here?

"BoB" sells tickets, makes money, and has a great PR staff (what sports owner doesn't want that and it's completely idiotic for any fan to try to blame him for that)... that's all true, but can we please cut the bull crap that "BoB" only cares about the bottom dollar over winning? That's just stupid.

BoB sets the bar for the types of players HE wants on his team. The Texans will never win a SB under the current constraints BoB puts on HIS team.

Like Texan Bill told me a long time ago. This is BoB's team and he will build it in the image he wants. Not the one that I want, you know a winning one.

So tell me this is BoB a brilliant businessman and a complete (Using your word) moron when it comes to the on the field product. Or does the on the field product always come 2nd for BoB. Before you answer that, remember that BoB said he looked at Bud as a mentor, and considered him to be a great friend. He said this on Channel 13 after Bud's funeral. This IS the type of owner the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS have.

Marshall
01-20-2014, 09:45 AM
BoB sets the bar for the types of players HE wants on his team. The Texans will never win a SB under the current constraints BoB puts on HIS team.

Like Texan Bill told me a long time ago. This is BoB's team and he will build it in the image he wants. Not the one that I want, you know a winning one.

So tell me this is BoB a brilliant businessman and a complete (Using your word) moron when it comes to the on the field product. Or does the on the field product always come 2nd for BoB. Before you answer that, remember that BoB said he looked at Bud as a mentor, and considered him to be a great friend. He said this on Channel 13 after Bud's funeral. This IS the type of owner the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS have.

I keep hearing that Bob won't win because he won't hire thugs and goons. I disagree with the premise.

ps Anakin was a great guy before he became the Evil Darth Vader too. I think this is a good analogy for Bud.

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 09:46 AM
Yeah I know, he's also our head coach too.

He's the entire reason why we suck ass. freaking BoB!

He's the owner of the team and that responsibility falls on him. He doesn't want to do anything too traumatic.

So to answer your question, YES he's the entire reason. He sets policy and hires incompetent people to run his on field product. And when the team bottoms out every 4-8 yrs he wont entirely clean up his mess.

See: Smith, Rick/Greir, Bobby for example.

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 09:50 AM
I keep hearing that Bob won't win because he won't hire thugs and goons. I disagree with the premise.

ps Anakin was a great guy before he became the Evil Darth Vader too. I think this is a good analogy for Bud.

New England/San Fran/Seattle and to a lesser extent Denver would disagree with you. Although Denver appears to have a problem with its front office personnel drinking and driving.

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 09:51 AM
Or is it like the 401K and retirement you had with Enron?

Comparing the NFL to Enron = LOL

Talk about a stretch. SMH

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 09:54 AM
This is technically true (well, actually since you used "years" instead of "year" it's not), but may be a bit overstated. Belichick was on the Patriots staff for one year - Parcells last, and the first year they went to the Super Bowl. After that it was off to the Jets with Parcells.

I've always considered the Belichick hiring by the Pats as being driven as much by the desire to screw the Jets as it was to bring in the best HC available. However, since they clearly did both things, it goes down as a legendary hire.

A man that gets it.

Marshall
01-20-2014, 09:57 AM
Comparing the NFL to Enron = LOL

Talk about a stretch. SMH

Not really. Both are/were houses of cards.

infantrycak
01-20-2014, 10:10 AM
So it's like a savings account that you get an unbelievable interest rate on?

Or is it like the 401K and retirement you had with Enron?

Comparing the NFL to Enron = LOL

Talk about a stretch. SMH

No, Marshall nailed it. The bank is obligated to pay interest on your savings account and give you the money on demand AND barring misconduct the value is steady or increases. Those are not true for an investment in an NFL team. Stocks however may appear to have gained value in the market but until there is a sale (for which there has to be a buyer) any gain is purely theoretical AND the perceived value could disappear tomorrow.

Dutchrudder
01-20-2014, 10:19 AM
I have no idea why you people are trying to simplify the word "investment." It really shouldn't be that hard for an adult to comprehend.

steelbtexan
01-20-2014, 10:25 AM
No, Marshall nailed it. The bank is obligated to pay interest on your savings account and give you the money on demand AND barring misconduct the value is steady or increases. Those are not true for an investment in an NFL team. Stocks however may appear to have gained value in the market but until there is a sale (for which there has to be a buyer) any gain is purely theoretical AND the perceived value could disappear tomorrow.

Theoretically this is true.

However do you really believe this when it comes to the NFL?

Double Barrel
01-20-2014, 12:38 PM
You'd think with the experts on this board, some of them would have jobs with actual NFL teams.

I hear they are hiring on Kirby Drive... :hmmm:

QuantumMortis
01-20-2014, 04:43 PM
No, Marshall nailed it. The bank is obligated to pay interest on your savings account and give you the money on demand AND barring misconduct the value is steady or increases. Those are not true for an investment in an NFL team. Stocks however may appear to have gained value in the market but until there is a sale (for which there has to be a buyer) any gain is purely theoretical AND the perceived value could disappear tomorrow.

This is getting wildly off topic, but this isn't accurate at least in the UK, and since US law is very much derived from Common Law it would likely apply here if ever tested. The EU agreed new rules on 12/11/13 for bank bailouts or "bail-ins" as well.

The law has been in existence for hundreds of years and was established in England by the House of Lords in the case Foley v Hill in 1848.

The money placed in the custody of the banker is, to all intent and purposes, the money of the banker, to do with it as he pleases; he is guilty of no breach of trust in employing it; he is not answerable TO THE PRINCIPAL IF HE PUTS IT INTO JEOPARDY, IF HE ENGAGES IN A HAZARDOUS SPECULATION; he is not bound to keep it or deal with it as the property of the principal, but he is of course answerable for the amount, because he has contracted, having received that money, to repay to the principal, when demanded, a sum equivalent to that paid into his hands.” (quoted in UK Law Essays, #3b4d81;">Relationship Between A Banker And Customer,That Of A Creditor/Debtor, emphasis added,)"

For a more recent example see the Cyprus Bail-in in which accounts were raided by the bank when the debt went bad. The financial system and national governments are trying to end the taxpayer bailout(s) and instead the depositors will take the hit.


http://dzswc0o8s13dx.cloudfront.net/goldcore_bloomberg_chart1_03-12-13.png (http://dzswc0o8s13dx.cloudfront.net/goldcore_bloomberg_chart1_03-12-13.png)

TL;DR -- All your money are belong to us.

infantrycak
01-20-2014, 05:07 PM
This is getting wildly off topic, but this isn't accurate at least in the UK, and since US law is very much derived from Common Law it would likely apply here if ever tested.

For the points I was making, it is true here or there. From your quote:

but he is of course answerable for the amount, because he has contracted, having received that money, to repay to the principal, when demanded, a sum equivalent to that paid into his hands.

Everyone understands the bank can invest the money but that is irrelevant. They are liable for the deposits and any contract interest.

QuantumMortis
01-20-2014, 08:25 PM
Everyone understands the bank can invest the money but that is irrelevant. They are liable for the deposits and any contract interest.

It's not irrelevant. Can a banker be prosecuted according to the quoted text for not repaying his liabilities? Who's money is it when a deposit is made?

infantrycak
01-20-2014, 08:35 PM
It's not irrelevant. Can a banker be prosecuted according to the quoted text for not repaying his liabilities? Who's money is it when a deposit is made?

It doesn't matter for the point aka irrelevant. There is a legal repayment obligation. The same can not be said for an investment like a team.

Marshall
01-20-2014, 08:41 PM
This is getting wildly off topic, but this isn't accurate at least in the UK, and since US law is very much derived from Common Law it would likely apply here if ever tested. The EU agreed new rules on 12/11/13 for bank bailouts or "bail-ins" as well.

The law has been in existence for hundreds of years and was established in England by the House of Lords in the case Foley v Hill in 1848.

The money placed in the custody of the banker is, to all intent and purposes, the money of the banker, to do with it as he pleases; he is guilty of no breach of trust in employing it; he is not answerable TO THE PRINCIPAL IF HE PUTS IT INTO JEOPARDY, IF HE ENGAGES IN A HAZARDOUS SPECULATION; he is not bound to keep it or deal with it as the property of the principal, but he is of course answerable for the amount, because he has contracted, having received that money, to repay to the principal, when demanded, a sum equivalent to that paid into his hands.” (quoted in UK Law Essays, #3b4d81;">Relationship Between A Banker And Customer,That Of A Creditor/Debtor, emphasis added,)"

For a more recent example see the Cyprus Bail-in in which accounts were raided by the bank when the debt went bad. The financial system and national governments are trying to end the taxpayer bailout(s) and instead the depositors will take the hit.


http://dzswc0o8s13dx.cloudfront.net/goldcore_bloomberg_chart1_03-12-13.png (http://dzswc0o8s13dx.cloudfront.net/goldcore_bloomberg_chart1_03-12-13.png)

TL;DR -- All your money are belong to us.

US Banking laws are different. There IS a fiduciary responsibility by the Banking side of the Financial institutions including the investment side. That's why many of the banking violations involve mixing client investment dollars with bank capital which was put at risk and violating this fiduciary responsibility.

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2014, 08:54 PM
You'd think with the experts on this board, some of them would have jobs with actual NFL teams.

I hear they are hiring on Kirby Drive... :hmmm:

Can you drink beer while watching film ? :barman:

QuantumMortis
01-20-2014, 09:18 PM
It doesn't matter for the point aka irrelevant. There is a legal repayment obligation. The same can not be said for an investment like a team.

Point taken. They may be legally obligated to repay a depositor, but may not be able to fulfill their legal obligations.

thunderkyss
01-20-2014, 09:31 PM
Until Rick Smith is gone I wont be a happy camper.


I get it.... but,


But he still has a job because BoB didn't want to have to pay off his contract...

We don't know why Rick still has a job, but I really doubt it's because McNair doesn't want to pay off his contract. Maybe he's reached out to his preferred replacement, but that guy has commitments he chooses to fulfill......

I'm still not convinced Rick is safe, he's probably going to be gone before the season starts.

aussie_texan
01-20-2014, 09:55 PM
I get it.... but,



We don't know why Rick still has a job, but I really doubt it's because McNair doesn't want to pay off his contract. Maybe he's reached out to his preferred replacement, but that guy has commitments he chooses to fulfill......

I'm still not convinced Rick is safe, he's probably going to be gone before the season starts.

theres an eerie feeling hanging about, i don't think i would be shocked if it did happen

TexansThunder
01-21-2014, 07:49 AM
New England/San Fran/Seattle and to a lesser extent Denver would disagree with you. Although Denver appears to have a problem with its front office personnel drinking and driving.

Arrests per team since 2000 (as of June 2013):

Denver w/35
Seattle w/20
New England w/15
San Francisco w/13

and

Texans w/9

thunderkyss
01-21-2014, 09:51 AM
So it's like a savings account that you get an unbelievable interest rate on?

It's money he can borrow against.

Playoffs
01-21-2014, 07:43 PM
Arrests per team since 2000 (as of June 2013):

Denver w/35
Seattle w/20
New England w/15
San Francisco w/13

and

Texans w/9
We lose at crime, too. :smiliepalm:

htownfan32
01-22-2014, 06:23 PM
We lose at crime, too. :smiliepalm:

We need more thugs on this team :kitten:

Playoffs
06-24-2014, 01:27 PM
Now in Tennessee.

gwallaia
06-24-2014, 05:08 PM
You'd think with the experts on this board, some of them would have jobs with actual NFL teams.

I hear they are hiring on Kirby Drive... :hmmm:

Indeed.

I bet one of us here on Texanstalk will soon have a job with the Texans scouting department. Hell, the next head coach of this franchise is more than likely a poster in this forum right now.

badboy
06-24-2014, 05:40 PM
Indeed.

I bet one of us here on Texanstalk will soon have a job with the Texans scouting department. Hell, the next head coach of this franchise is more than likely a poster in this forum right now.I am proposing CnD for team doctor.

steelbtexan
06-24-2014, 05:54 PM
I am proposing CnD for team doctor.

Yep

I bet the Clowney situation would've been handled differently.

Incompetence seems to be the order of the day when it comes to the Texans medical staff.

Honoring Earl 34
06-24-2014, 08:34 PM
i guess naming ryan fitzpatrick as starter is doing it big huh goku san???

:toropalm:

No ... it's much easier to hand a Porshe over to a young QB than it is a Yugo , purple rat .

Honoring Earl 34
06-24-2014, 08:43 PM
lol wut?

show more respect to your daddy.

If you have good defense , a good running back and a strong OL , a young QB can do ok .

Playoffs
06-25-2014, 10:12 AM
No ... purple rat .

It's Lord Bald Purple Rat to you, hair boy.

houstonspartan
06-25-2014, 01:35 PM
Yep



I bet the Clowney situation would've been handled differently.



Incompetence seems to be the order of the day when it comes to the Texans medical staff.


Yeah, our medical staff seems to have sucked for years. I don't get it.

badboy
06-25-2014, 03:18 PM
No ... it's much easier to hand a Porshe over to a young QB than it is a Yugo , purple rat .
"Somebody's gonna hurt someone before the night is through.." eagles

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Fail