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PapaL
01-14-2014, 08:14 PM
Didn't see this posted. If it was, my bad!

O’Brien Explains What Type Of Quarterback He Wants In Houston; LINK (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/01/14/obrien-explains-what-type-of-quarterback-he-wants-in-houston/)

Should settle the nickname debate:

Coach O’Brien, or OB as many call him and he admits is his favorite nickname

QB Talk:

“This system over the years has had mobile quarterbacks,” O’Brien told In The Loop. “It’s had tall quarterbacks, quarterbacks who were six feet tall, quarterbacks that were six foot five, quarterbacks that have had all different types of skill sets. What you do is you try to look at what’s available to you, what’s already on the team and try to make sure the system fits the skill set of the players.”

“I was able to see Blake Bortles up-close because we played Central Florida at Penn State and they beat us. He was a smart player. An accurate passer. A guy that could do a lot of different things. You could tell he was really a student of the game. He’s a good football player.”
The other two O’Brien hasn’t studied much of, just catching a few games on TV over the past couple years.
“I haven’t watched Teddy Bridgewater much at all. I have seen him on TV. An exciting player. A guy that did a great job for Louisville. A guy I can tell is a good football player.”
“Obviously a very exciting player,” O’Brien said of Johnny Manziel. “A guy thats a playmaker that does a lot of great things on the field.”

thetexanator
01-14-2014, 08:16 PM
this the interview from this morning? seemed pretty vanilla. he said a lot of stuff but really didnt say anything at all.

Corrosion
01-14-2014, 08:19 PM
I heard him make the same statements before , must have been a day or two after the hiring.


As for what's already on the roster , the position is a train wreck .... the QB position played the biggest part in derailing the teams season.

ObsiWan
01-14-2014, 08:20 PM
this the interview from this morning? seemed pretty vanilla. he said a lot of stuff but really didnt say anything at all.
Remember, he's a graduate of the Bill Belichick School of CoachSpeak
:turtle:

so I don't expect any earthshaking revelations from his pressers. I wonder how long he's gonna milk the "well, we're still evaluating the players.." schtick.
Not that I blame him. Why tip your hand in the press when you don't have to?
:D

bhsman
01-14-2014, 08:32 PM
FWIW, I think his nickname is actually "Obie" due to how he spelled it in his Brown University yearbook entry.

Texecutioner
01-14-2014, 08:45 PM
I have felt from the beginning that O'Brien will be after Bortles after facing him and knowing his HC so well. I have no idea of what his strategy will be to get him, but that is the QB that I think our coach will want the most.

bOODRO87
01-14-2014, 08:53 PM
LOL, no one here has a clue what he's thinking. He won't hint worth a fart sniff what his plan is. He's about to begin his masterpiece.

Buuut, I did hear the podcast and the sayings about someone who studies early and late in the day and is the best person they can be on and off the field screams Teddy to me.

Playoffs
01-14-2014, 09:07 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2285251#post2285251

Norg
01-15-2014, 01:36 AM
whats the QB class look like in 2015 .... Real talk

WolverineFan
01-15-2014, 01:38 AM
whats the QB class look like in 2015 .... Real talk

It looks pretty good. Of course, everyone was saying the same thing about this class last year. I'm sure next year it will be the same as usual.

Texn4life
01-15-2014, 02:03 AM
I'm convinced we go with Manziel at #1 if he doesn't throw up all over himself during the draft process. And the state of Texas and the rest of the country will go nuts!

YeaLikeRightNow
01-15-2014, 04:11 AM
I'm convinced we go with Manziel at #1 if he doesn't throw up all over himself during the draft process. And the state of Texas and the rest of the country will go nuts!

Just in:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/534286/20140114/nfl.htm#.UtZdQrRWNKQ

Texn4life
01-15-2014, 04:27 AM
Just in:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/534286/20140114/nfl.htm#.UtZdQrRWNKQ

Sounds like a made up story to me...... The Patriots wouldn't engage in talks to trade their backup QB before the playoffs even end. Someone saw a tweet and ran with it.

ObsiWan
01-15-2014, 05:44 AM
Just in:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/534286/20140114/nfl.htm#.UtZdQrRWNKQ

For those, like me, who didn't know much about Mallett here's his Wiki page... Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Mallett)

and then there's this (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-04-18/ryan-mallett-reportedly-admits-past-drug-use-to-nfl-teams)...

Although Arkansas quarterback Ryan Mallett refused to address questions from the media about alleged drug use at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis -- after dodging several queries, Mallett abruptly ended his press conference -- he apparently came clean in interviews with NFL teams.
"One G.M. said Mallett was the first quarterback ever to admit his drug usage to him in interviews, and his willingness to be honest about his past and acknowledge issues is viewed as a positive," according to Pro Football Weekly. "Concerns about his history of use could impact his draft position, though."
http://dy.snimg.com/story-image/0/95/183813/29213-330-0.jpg
Ryan Mallett reportedly has discussed past drug usage with NFL teams. Some teams view this as a positive.
Auburn's Cam Newton and Missouri's Blaine Gabbert are the only two quarterbacks considered top 10 picks in this year's draft. Mallett is generally considered to be in the next tier, along with Washington's Jake Locker, Florida State's Christian Ponder, TCU's Andy Dalton and Nevada's Colin Kaepernick.
In addition to the drug rumors -- Mallett reportedly never tested positive at Arkansas -- his character was sullied by an arrest for public intoxication. Some NFL teams are concerned about Mallett's reputation as a "big party guy," according to PFW.

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F2010%25252Fryan-mallett-interview%25252F&sa=X&ei=S2PWUpa6DbK-sQTgtoGYBQ&ved=0CK8BEP4dMA4)

Dishman
01-15-2014, 05:53 AM
Just in:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/534286/20140114/nfl.htm#.UtZdQrRWNKQ

I'm fairly sure this is a crap news source. They've been lampooned quite a bit and most recently were crowing about Jeremy Lin being traded about a month or more back.

Then there's this: http://productforums.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/news/nlNqcf83Ew0/UWCcdGRlJEIJ

Pretty sure they just drive traffic to their site and most stories are of little substance.

Sigma
01-15-2014, 08:22 AM
Remember, he's a graduate of the Bill Belichick School of CoachSpeak
:turtle:

so I don't expect any earthshaking revelations from his pressers. I wonder how long he's gonna milk the "well, we're still evaluating the players.." schtick.
Not that I blame him. Why tip your hand in the press when you don't have to?
:D

If I hear him say just one more time

"everybody wants to know if your defense will be a 3-4 or a 4-3... but now about 70 percent of the games are played in nickel and dime defense because of the way the type of league that it is."

I'm gonna kill somebody

MEGA SWATT
01-15-2014, 09:05 AM
this the interview from this morning? seemed pretty vanilla. he said a lot of stuff but really didnt say anything at all.

exactly. Blake? Seriously.

Brisco_County
01-15-2014, 12:38 PM
Regardless of the source, that trade makes a lot of sense. Mallet was O'Brien's choice in that draft, and Mallet has now had two years to study the system. That trade would be the best scenario among the currently possible options.

DX-TEX
01-15-2014, 01:01 PM
Regardless of the source, that trade makes a lot of sense. Mallet was O'Brien's choice in that draft, and Mallet has now had two years to study the system. That trade would be the best scenario among the currently possible options.

If this really happens Texans are in the drivers seat. Mallet will be a free agent after next season. Why trade for him when you can just wait a year and get him without a trade? NE can get something but with my first comment what can they really get? 3rd rounder if lucky? 4th?

They also have to decide if he is the QB of the future and how long will Brady keep playing.

Ryan
01-15-2014, 01:03 PM
Regardless of the source, that trade makes a lot of sense. Mallet was O'Brien's choice in that draft, and Mallet has now had two years to study the system. That trade would be the best scenario among the currently possible options.


We have 2-3 QBs available at the top of the draft that Im fairly certain could learn the scheme quickly and bring more to the table than Mallett. Tired of trading for backups.

ArlingtonTexan
01-15-2014, 01:22 PM
If I hear him say just one more time

"everybody wants to know if your defense will be a 3-4 or a 4-3... but now about 70 percent of the games are played in nickel and dime defense because of the way the type of league that it is."

I'm gonna kill somebody

Seems like an overreaction to O'Brien stating was obvious on the field.

Bulls on Parade
01-15-2014, 02:45 PM
I heard him make the same statements before , must have been a day or two after the hiring.


As for what's already on the roster , the position is a train wreck .... the QB position played the biggest part in derailing the teams season.
I actually thought Case Keenum played well enough to win about five of those games. The nailbiters we let get away because a lack of defense and running game for a full 60 minutes. We lost about seven straight games by one score.

WolverineFan
01-15-2014, 03:07 PM
I actually thought Case Keenum played well enough to win about five of those games. The nailbiters we let get away because a lack of defense and running game for a full 60 minutes. We lost about seven straight games by one score.

He was part of that equation. His inability to mount any offense in the 4th quarter of most of those games was a key issue in a lot of the losses.

Brisco_County
01-15-2014, 03:15 PM
I actually thought Case Keenum played well enough to win about five of those games. The nailbiters we let get away because a lack of defense and running game for a full 60 minutes. We lost about seven straight games by one score.

Not to start a Keenum discussion, but one or two fields goals would've made a huge difference in the final evaluation.

If this really happens Texans are in the drivers seat. Mallet will be a free agent after next season. Why trade for him when you can just wait a year and get him without a trade? NE can get something but with my first comment what can they really get? 3rd rounder if lucky? 4th?

They also have to decide if he is the QB of the future and how long will Brady keep playing.

Good point, I wasn't aware he had one more year left.

I'm at work, so I don't have time to look up Mallet's scouting report, but that would be relevant to this discussion.

Playoffs
01-15-2014, 03:41 PM
Is this the guy I hire to be the CEO of my organization???

That's one important question OB said he will be asking himself.

It force's you to be inquisitive in a functionally different manner than just film/measureables.

I'd hire Manning, Brady, Brees, Wilson, Luck...

michaelm
01-15-2014, 03:59 PM
Is this the guy I hire to be the CEO of my organization???

That's one important question OB said he will be asking himself.

It force's you to be inquisitive in a functionally different manner than just film/measureables.

I'd hire Manning, Brady, Brees, Wilson, Luck...

That logic almost definitely excludes Johnny Football. Not CEO material at all, IMO.
I'd hire him as a bar tender or choose him for my dodge ball team, though. :kitten:

drs23
01-15-2014, 05:11 PM
He was part of that equation. His inability to mount any offense in the 4th quarter of most of those games was a key issue in a lot of the losses.

Agreed. That and the D giving up 98 & 99yd drives for TDs. That didn't help the cause either.

Texian
01-18-2014, 06:53 PM
Just in:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/534286/20140114/nfl.htm#.UtZdQrRWNKQ

Remember This: Tom Brady will be 37 years old. If Bill Belichick wants to trade you Ryan Mallett YOU DON'T WANT HIM. In all likehood, Brady has 1 maybe 2 years left. If Belichick thinks Mallett is a suitable replacement for Brady he's NOT trading him. If Belichick thinks that Mallett is NOT a suitable long term replacement, then Belichick is ready to play "LET'S MAKE A DEAL"!

aussie_texan
01-19-2014, 01:21 AM
Remember This: Tom Brady will be 37 years old. If Bill Belichick wants to trade you Ryan Mallett YOU DON'T WANT HIM. In all likehood, Brady has 1 maybe 2 years left. If Belichick thinks Mallett is a suitable replacement for Brady he's NOT trading him. If Belichick thinks that Mallett is NOT a suitable long term replacement, then Belichick is ready to play "LET'S MAKE A DEAL"!

everyone has a price

JCTexan
01-19-2014, 01:32 AM
Remember This: Tom Brady will be 37 years old. If Bill Belichick wants to trade you Ryan Mallett YOU DON'T WANT HIM. In all likehood, Brady has 1 maybe 2 years left. If Belichick thinks Mallett is a suitable replacement for Brady he's NOT trading him. If Belichick thinks that Mallett is NOT a suitable long term replacement, then Belichick is ready to play "LET'S MAKE A DEAL"!

Remember this: Ryan Mallett is entering the final year of his contract. If Bill Belichick wants to trade Ryan Mallett, he could just be looking at getting something in return for him while he still can. Brady could still be the starter for the Patriots for three more years, so why would Mallett not want to test free agency next year if another team wants him to be their starting QB?

bckey
01-19-2014, 05:41 AM
Remember This: Tom Brady will be 37 years old. If Bill Belichick wants to trade you Ryan Mallett YOU DON'T WANT HIM. In all likehood, Brady has 1 maybe 2 years left. If Belichick thinks Mallett is a suitable replacement for Brady he's NOT trading him. If Belichick thinks that Mallett is NOT a suitable long term replacement, then Belichick is ready to play "LET'S MAKE A DEAL"!

Maybe Bellichick will decide to retire when Brady retires. He is smart enough to realize that Tom Brady is a big reason he is going to the hall of fame 5 years after he retires. Leave the game on top and he would seal up his legacy as one of the greatest coaches ever in the nfl. Stay and risk some losing seasons with a new qb before eventually retiring. I can't picture him in the booth though like some other coaches after retirement.

steelbtexan
01-19-2014, 08:01 AM
If they trade Mallett, I could see Belichick drafting a developmental QB like Jimmy Garoppolo in the 3rd rd to be Brady's replacement. The time frame is wrong for Mallett to be the longterm replacement. Mallet is/was insurance against Brady injury and happened to be BPA at the time he was drafted.

I'm thinking of starting up a thread on Garoppolo, I saw him for the 1st time yesterday during the East West game and he really impressed me. I could see him being drafted in the 2nd rd. Cant wait to see how he performs at the Sr. Bowl.

otisbean
01-19-2014, 08:04 AM
If they trade Mallett, I could see Belichick drafting a developmental QB like Jimmy Garoppolo in the 3rd rd to be Brady's replacement. The time frame is wrong for Mallett to be the longterm replacement. Mallet is/was insurance against Brady injury and happened to be BPA at the time he was drafted.

I'm thinking of starting up a thread on Garoppolo, I saw him for the 1st time yesterday during the East West game and he really impressed me. I could see him being drafted in the 2nd rd. Cant wait to see how he performs at the Sr. Bowl.

He did look good yesterday. I'm anxious to see how he does at the Senior bowl.

Texian
01-19-2014, 08:31 AM
Forget about Mallett, there is a reason that Brady is playing Manning and Kaepernick is playing Wilson.

PapaL
01-19-2014, 08:38 AM
Forget about Mallett, there is a reason that Brady is playing Manning and Kaepernick is playing Wilson.

That's such a crock. You never know until the guy gets in there. By your theory Brady, Kaep, Steve Young, etc never should have played because the guys in front of them were playing.

TexansFTW
01-19-2014, 10:58 AM
This scenario seems plausible, but I don't like it.

Re-Tool/Re-Build/whatever... The common factors in successful ones are an effective head coach and choosing the right QB.

If we do choose another 3rd round backup QB that wasn't worthy of a 1st round pick again we better not give that MFer another 7+ years to show us what he can do (or what he can't).

I posted this 4 weeks ago. If we trade a 2nd (basically a first) for Mallet, I'm done.

I can't live with this garbage philosophy of win now with a loser QB that isn't good enough to win now while we pass up on the future again.

Remember This: Tom Brady will be 37 years old. If Bill Belichick wants to trade you Ryan Mallett YOU DON'T WANT HIM. In all likehood, Brady has 1 maybe 2 years left. If Belichick thinks Mallett is a suitable replacement for Brady he's NOT trading him. If Belichick thinks that Mallett is NOT a suitable long term replacement, then Belichick is ready to play "LET'S MAKE A DEAL"!

I 100% agree. Why the F would they trade him if they saw any long term value in him??? He's tall with a good arm, but it ends there. And why the F would you give up a 2.01 (basically a first) for some guy that is about to immediately require a starting QB contract when this team has holes all over the place???!

The answer is he wants to win now, but this is NOT the guy to do it. This has ruined my day. I moved to this city right after the Rockets won their championships. Since I became a Houston Sports fan we haven't done a damn thing and we've been a dumpster fire for sports since. This is just another chapter in sucking for another 4 years.

We aren't the Browns, but we might as well be. Those fans show up to game 1 w/ a paper bag on their heads in good spirit cause they know what's coming. It's better than this false hope and BS decisions. I know this trade is going down and I know Mallet will suck. WE SUCK AGAIN!

Texian
01-19-2014, 11:59 AM
That's such a crock. You never know until the guy gets in there. By your theory Brady, Kaep, Steve Young, etc never should have played because the guys in front of them were playing.

See Post #28. Kraft & Belichick trades Mallett to McNair & O'Brien, friend and student (take advantage of), to the Texans for their 2nd RD, #33 draft pick. With the Texans 33rd pick the Patriots select QB Jimmy Garoppolo. Three years later, Brady retired, the Patriots w/ Garoppolo at QB beat the Texans in regular season who are w/o Ryan Mallett who is out of football for doing his best David Carr/Matt Schaub impersonations. The Patriots go on to the playoffs with another Belichick assistant for McNair to hire and and a backup QB McNair can trade for......while Kraft and Belichick crank the stereo for Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" while singing....second verse same as the first.

Honoring Earl 34
01-19-2014, 12:01 PM
Wow the older Mallett gets , the better he was .

JCTexan
01-19-2014, 12:14 PM
I 100% agree. Why the F would they trade him if they saw any long term value in him???


Because he's likely not going to remain with the Patriots long term. Mallett is entering the final year of his contract. Do you honestly think Mallett would turn down a starting job & 50+ Million to remain as Brady's backup when he enters free agency? I don't.

I'm not advocating for trading for Mallett, but I see the benefit for the Patriots trading him if they can get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him. They can then draft a Mettenberger/Mccarron type with that pick to backup Brady until he retires.

Playoffs
01-19-2014, 12:20 PM
Wow the older Mallett gets , the better he was .
Do you honestly think Mallett would turn down a starting job & 50+ Million...

Yeah, he's a $50 million dollar QB now. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

JCTexan
01-19-2014, 12:54 PM
Yeah, he's a $50 million dollar QB now. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

I'm just saying Mallett wouldn't turn down a starting job + the money he would get to remain Brady's backup. I was trying to go off Matt Schaub's first contract with Houston (6years, 48 Million) and Matt Flynn's contract with Seattle (3 years, 26 million), but somehow those contracts weren't as large as I imagined. Still both got 8+ million a year before they proved anything in the NFL, and I think Mallett could be the next QB who hasn't proved anything to get that type of contract.

Playoffs
01-19-2014, 01:22 PM
I'm just saying Mallett wouldn't turn down a starting job + the money he would get to remain Brady's backup...

No doubt, but chasing Patriot backups (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4327067) can prove hazardous to your wealth.

Sigma
01-20-2014, 09:14 AM
I wonder how long he's gonna milk the "well, we're still evaluating the players.." schtick.
If I hear him say just one more time

"everybody wants to know if your defense will be a 3-4 or a 4-3... but now about 70 percent of the games are played in nickel and dime defense because of the way the type of league that it is."

I'm gonna kill somebody

Seems like an overreaction to O'Brien stating was obvious on the field.

I know he's right about that, I wasn't complaining at him, just it's frustrating seing a new interview coming out in the news, open the vid hoping in something actually "new" and hear the same exact speech repeated :D

maybe something about the new DC, is there anything official yet?

TexansFTW
01-20-2014, 12:24 PM
Because he's likely not going to remain with the Patriots long term. Mallett is entering the final year of his contract. Do you honestly think Mallett would turn down a starting job & 50+ Million to remain as Brady's backup when he enters free agency? I don't.

I'm not advocating for trading for Mallett, but I see the benefit for the Patriots trading him if they can get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him. They can then draft a Mettenberger/Mccarron type with that pick to backup Brady until he retires.

Obviously if I'm the Patriots you are damn right I do this deal. I'm saying my view as a disgruntled Texans fan. Hell no! PLEASE don't! Let someone else pay this kid.

I'd rather pay a rookie QB peanuts as opposed to paying a (basically) rookie QB starting QB money. We are up against the cap right now as is, we can't afford all of this. What if next year we have to choose Mallet or Watt? I definitely initially overreacted and I'll always support this sorry team, but man I will be very upset if that was to happen.

Marshall
01-20-2014, 12:40 PM
I'm just saying Mallett wouldn't turn down a starting job + the money he would get to remain Brady's backup. I was trying to go off Matt Schaub's first contract with Houston (6years, 48 Million) and Matt Flynn's contract with Seattle (3 years, 26 million), but somehow those contracts weren't as large as I imagined. Still both got 8+ million a year before they proved anything in the NFL, and I think Mallett could be the next QB who hasn't proved anything to get that type of contract.

This would be a good comparison if the new wage structure for draft picks had been in place for a while. But now the balance of Late round pick and FA has shifted towards the Draftee.

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 12:55 PM
See Post #28. Kraft & Belichick trades Mallett to McNair & O'Brien, friend and student (take advantage of), to the Texans for their 2nd RD, #33 draft pick. With the Texans 33rd pick the Patriots select QB Jimmy Garoppolo. Three years later, Brady retired, the Patriots w/ Garoppolo at QB beat the Texans in regular season who are w/o Ryan Mallett who is out of football for doing his best David Carr/Matt Schaub impersonations. The Patriots go on to the playoffs with another Belichick assistant for McNair to hire and and a backup QB McNair can trade for......while Kraft and Belichick crank the stereo for Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" while singing....second verse same as the first.

Would anyone have had a problem if we traded back into the 2nd round of 2011 to draft Mallet instead of Brandon Harris (& lTJ Yates in the 5th)?

At least this way he learned under Tom Brady & not Matt Schaub.

HOU-TEX
01-23-2014, 01:16 PM
I was just thinking about our QB situation on the way back to the office. Don't hate on me too much. I'm not a fan of doing this with our QBs, but here goes...

I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year. Yes, I know, I'm a tard for saying it.

If we were to do this and there's ne trade out of #1, I'd choose Clowney. Draft a QB with 'potential' in the 2nd (Mettenberger, Murry, McCarron, Carr *vomit*, etc.). Schaub (vomit again), Yates and one of the above will be the QBs going into this season.

Be easy, now. lol

badboy
01-23-2014, 01:19 PM
I was just thinking about our QB situation on the way back to the office. Don't hate on me too much. I'm not a fan of doing this with our QBs, but here goes...

I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year. Yes, I know, I'm a tard for saying it.

If we were to do this and there's ne trade out of #1, I'd choose Clowney. Draft a QB with 'potential' in the 2nd (Mettenberger, Murry, McCarron, Carr *vomit*, etc.). Schaub (vomit again), Yates and one of the above will be the QBs going into this season.

Be easy, now. lolHow do you fix Schaub? He has been bad for long period of time whether mental or physical. Cannot just hope he shows up in September "better".

deucetx
01-23-2014, 01:38 PM
I was just thinking about our QB situation on the way back to the office. Don't hate on me too much. I'm not a fan of doing this with our QBs, but here goes...

I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year. Yes, I know, I'm a tard for saying it.

If we were to do this and there's ne trade out of #1, I'd choose Clowney. Draft a QB with 'potential' in the 2nd (Mettenberger, Murry, McCarron, Carr *vomit*, etc.). Schaub (vomit again), Yates and one of the above will be the QBs going into this season.

Be easy, now. lol

I think (and someone correct me if wrong) that the financial impact would hit us harder if we kept him another year and released him than if we did it this season with the June 1st cuts. So keeping him as a placehold with a stronger cap hit in 2015 (or dead money I should say) compared to releasing him post June 1st in moving forward makes it seem that it just makes more sense football and financial wise to move from Schaub.

Not to mention the city may grab pitch forks and torches to march on McNair, heh.

Marshall
01-23-2014, 01:47 PM
I think (and someone correct me if wrong) that the financial impact would hit us harder if we kept him another year and released him than if we did it this season with the June 1st cuts. So keeping him as a placehold with a stronger cap hit in 2015 (or dead money I should say) compared to releasing him post June 1st in moving forward makes it seem that it just makes more sense football and financial wise to move from Schaub.

Not to mention the city may grab pitch forks and torches to march on McNair, heh.

Schaub's base salary in 2014 is $10M (possibly an additional $1M from other Bonus if it's a roster bonus). This is the money we save by releasing him THIS YEAR.

Making him a June 1 cut only shifts $7M of dead money from 2014 to 2015, incidentally when we need it most. While it looks like there is a lot of cap room in 2015 already, it won't be there after required additions for the 2014 and 2015 seasons (Draft picks, FAs and Salary adjustments to make the required roster limits).

This is chess, not checkers, in the Front Office. You have to look ahead several moves.

Incidentally, this is why I suggested cutting him and resigning him over renegotiating his contract if we wanted him in 2014. ANY extension of the current contract advances $7M of the dead money into 2015.

HOU-TEX
01-23-2014, 02:10 PM
How do you fix Schaub? He has been bad for long period of time whether mental or physical. Cannot just hope he shows up in September "better".

Maybe, but there isn't much out there that's better. Like I said, I'm no fan of Schaubs. I just don't see one of these veteran FAs or average to below average rookies making us instantly better at the position. Unless we're willing to trade for another teams back up.

I think (and someone correct me if wrong) that the financial impact would hit us harder if we kept him another year and released him than if we did it this season with the June 1st cuts. So keeping him as a placehold with a stronger cap hit in 2015 (or dead money I should say) compared to releasing him post June 1st in moving forward makes it seem that it just makes more sense football and financial wise to move from Schaub.

Not to mention the city may grab pitch forks and torches to march on McNair, heh.

I reckon there are several ways to massage the numbers to make it reasonable.

Again, I want a new QB. I also want the new QB to be better than what we have

Insideop
01-23-2014, 02:33 PM
I was just thinking about our QB situation on the way back to the office. Don't hate on me too much. I'm not a fan of doing this with our QBs, but here goes...

I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year. Yes, I know, I'm a tard for saying it.

If we were to do this and there's ne trade out of #1, I'd choose Clowney. Draft a QB with 'potential' in the 2nd (Mettenberger, Murry, McCarron, Carr *vomit*, etc.). Schaub (vomit again), Yates and one of the above will be the QBs going into this season.

Be easy, now. lol

The only reason I'd keep Schaub would be to help get Teddy Bridgewater up to speed and slowly work him in. Too me, getting Mettenberger, Murray, or McCarron would be like getting Scahub (game managers) when they are rookies, and as for Carr, well, I don't want part of HWSNBN pt 2. I know Mettenberger and Carr have much stronger arms than Schaub but I don't think they have the head for the game. Murray and McCarron are more mobile than Schaub and may have better arms, but I just look at them as "game managers." I don't want that again. I want a "franchise QB." I think TB has the potential to be that. Is he Luck, Manning, or Elway? No, but given a little time, I think he could be a Rodgers or Brees type.

I just don't like the idea of drafting :clown:ey, and I definitely don't like the idea of spending a 2nd rd pick to get Mallet from NE and drafting a QB in the 3rd. JMO!

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 02:33 PM
I've considered how poor the QB FA class is this year as well as how I don't like the top 3-4 QBs in this draft at #1-1. If OB and crew think the same, I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub was retained for another year.

What would be the point?

I'm not a Schaub hater, but... if he's got his head straight, best case scenario we make it past the divisional round & we're hoping everything can be perfect again for the 2015 season so we can have a shot again.

Worst case scenario, we're two games into the season (ala 2013) before it's obvious to everyone that he's not fixed. Now we're paying him $14M to be our back up QB again, blocking another viable option (Tj) from seeing the field.

I personally don't like any QB in this draft at 1-1 either, but..... I'm coming to terms with the possibility that there may not be a better choice. However, I like several QBs in this draft. I'd love any of the big 3 outside the top 10. Derek Carr past 15. I like Boyd, Mett, & McCarron at the top of the 2nd. I like Logan Thomas in the third, love him for a fourth.

But either way, Matt Schaub is gone. Tj, Case, & the rookie can compete for the job & I'll hope for the best. But if Josh McCown or Josh Freeman could be had for $3M or less I'd rather them playing for us, instead of some rookie.


Wouldn't it be something if Rick Smith & OB grades Case Keenum equal to Bridgewater, Manziel, & Bortles?

kiwitexansfan
01-23-2014, 03:11 PM
If Schaub can be 'fixed' and plays at what we know is his best, we can be back in the playoffs next year.

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 03:16 PM
Schaub's base salary in 2014 is $10M (possibly an additional $1M from other Bonus if it's a roster bonus). This is the money we save by releasing him THIS YEAR.


No. Matt's cap number (salary ($10M), roster bonus ($1M), & prorated bonus ($3.5M)) is $14.5M there is still $10.5M from Matt's signing bonus that has not been accounted for against our cap. The difference of those two numbers, $4M, is what we would save



Making him a June 1 cut only shifts $7M of dead money from 2014 to 2015, incidentally when we need it most. While it looks like there is a lot of cap room in 2015 already, it won't be there after required additions for the 2014 and 2015 seasons (Draft picks, FAs and Salary adjustments to make the required roster limits).


There are other moves that can be & at that time probably should be made..... we may have to cut Jjo ($8.5M), Myers ($6M), & Foster ($4M). Added to the $10M we save by cutting Schaub (even considering the $7M dead money) our cap space goes up $28.5M for a total in excess of $43M


This is chess, not checkers, in the Front Office. You have to look ahead several moves.


Exactly, we can't get hung up on $7M preparing for something we may never have to pay.


Incidentally, this is why I suggested cutting him and resigning him over renegotiating his contract if we wanted him in 2014. ANY extension of the current contract advances $7M of the dead money into 2015.

Incidentally, you're still wrong. Asking him to take a paycut is not the same as renegotiating a contract. There will be no "advances $7M of dead money into 2015" if Schaub plays for the Texans in 2014. The rest of his contract is still intact.

He's got a cap number of $17M for 2015 & $19M for 2016. We can designate him a June 1, 2015 cut & we'd only have to count $3.5M against both numbers.

Asking him to renegotiate can save $4M off his 2014 cap number, maybe more if Rick Smith can really stick it to him.

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 03:23 PM
The only reason I'd keep Schaub would be to help get Teddy Bridgewater up to speed and slowly work him in. Too me, getting Mettenberger, Murray, or McCarron would be like getting Scahub (game managers) when they are rookies, and as for Carr, well, I don't want part of HWSNBN pt 2. I know Mettenberger and Carr have much stronger arms than Schaub but I don't think they have the head for the game. Murray and McCarron are more mobile than Schaub and may have better arms, but I just look at them as "game managers." I don't want that again. I want a "franchise QB." I think TB has the potential to be that. Is he Luck, Manning, or Elway? No, but given a little time, I think he could be a Rodgers or Brees type.

I just don't like the idea of drafting :clown:ey, and I definitely don't like the idea of spending a 2nd rd pick to get Mallet from NE and drafting a QB in the 3rd. JMO!

Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls as a game manager. He's won none since becoming "the GOAT"

Rothlisberger won his first SuperBowl as a game manager.

Flacco.... game manager.

There's nothing wrong with a game manager if he's got some plus ability. For Brady & Roethlisberger, it was their ability to extend plays & make plays downfield. Flacco was probably the best QB of the group when he won his first Super Bowl... more plays from the pocket.

Trent Dilfer & Brad Johnson were on the lower end of the spectrum when talking about "game managers."

Marshall
01-23-2014, 03:48 PM
No. Matt's cap number (salary ($10M), roster bonus ($1M), & prorated bonus ($3.5M)) is $14.5M there is still $10.5M from Matt's signing bonus that has not been accounted for against our cap. The difference of those two numbers, $4M, is what we would save




There are other moves that can be & at that time probably should be made..... we may have to cut Jjo ($8.5M), Myers ($6M), & Foster ($4M). Added to the $10M we save by cutting Schaub (even considering the $7M dead money) our cap space goes up $28.5M for a total in excess of $43M



Exactly, we can't get hung up on $7M preparing for something we may never have to pay.



Incidentally, you're still wrong. Asking him to take a paycut is not the same as renegotiating a contract. There will be no "advances $7M of dead money into 2015" if Schaub plays for the Texans in 2014. The rest of his contract is still intact.

He's got a cap number of $17M for 2015 & $19M for 2016. We can designate him a June 1, 2015 cut & we'd only have to count $3.5M against both numbers.

Asking him to renegotiate can save $4M off his 2014 cap number, maybe more if Rick Smith can really stick it to him.

There is $10.5M in signing bonus dead money. That is gone, regardless of how we restructure or cut. With the contract in place, $3.5 M of the dead money will be payable in 2014 and in ADDITION, his $10M salary and $1M roster bonus. The relief of this Salary and Roster bonus is the only real savings on the contract in 2014. All future Salaries and Roster bonuses will also be gone, but his Dead money from his signing bonus will remain. If he is a June 1 cut, the $3.5M for 2014 still accrues, but the remaining $7M is deferred until 2015. If his contract is renegotiated, His dead money for 2015 will be $7M unless extended into 2016 (In which case $3.5M for each year in dead money - still $7M). In any event, it is just transferred from year to year, not eliminated. Any salary would be above the current cost of the contract if terminated.

The $4M represents the Salary $10M and Roster bonus $1M and $3.5M Signing bonus Total of $14.5M minus the remaining Signing Bonus (or dead money) of $10.5M. If you don't cut him, the remaining $7M dead money is shifted to 2015 or 2015 and 2016.

You can't mix and match obligations any more than you can mix assets and liabilities and come up with a valid and meaningful number. The salary and Roster bonuses can be eliminated by cutting Schaub, the dead money can't. That can only be shifted or allocated to different years according to the terms of the Master agreement.

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 07:34 PM
You can't mix and match obligations any more than you can mix assets and liabilities and come up with a valid and meaningful number. The salary and Roster bonuses can be eliminated by cutting Schaub, the dead money can't. That can only be shifted or allocated to different years according to the terms of the Master agreement.

No one is asking him to renegotiate. We want him to take a pay cut. That salary you're talking about... knock it down from $10M to $4M. We add $6M to our cap.

We cut him after the season is over, designated as a June 1st cut. His cap hit for 2015 is only $3.5M. His cap hit for 2016 is $3.5M.

No need to cut him, then resign him. Not pushing anything into the future, that isn't already accounted for already in the future. We gain $13.5M towards our 2015 cap. We gain $15.5M towards our 2016 cap.


You want us to cut him, take the $10M hit, then pay him $4M for 2014. He'll still have the same $4M "cap hit" what would be the point?

We'd be better off to just let him play out his contract as is.

CloakNNNdagger
01-24-2014, 01:38 PM
If Schaub can be 'fixed' and plays at what we know is his best, we can be back in the playoffs next year.

He's already been neutered.........what more do you want to put the poor guy through?

kiwitexansfan
01-24-2014, 02:32 PM
He's already been neutered.........what more do you want to put the poor guy through?

CnD, is his foot healed? Will it be better this year?

In your opinion does he have a physical thing or just a head thing ailing him?

infantrycak
01-24-2014, 04:41 PM
CnD, is his foot healed? Will it be better this year?

In your opinion does he have a physical thing or just a head thing ailing him?

From prior CnD discussions - Schaub's injury is healed. BUT it is the kind of injury which leaves the foot subject to fatigue over the course of a season with a degenerating recovery cycle. So to illustrate with numbers (totally made up), during offseason #1 he will get back to 95% and then as the season progresses go down to 50% then in offseason #2 he will get back to 90% and then as the season progresses go down to 45%, and so on. It isn't a new injury or a re-injury, it is just a degenerative state.

Marshall
01-24-2014, 04:51 PM
No one is asking him to renegotiate. We want him to take a pay cut. That salary you're talking about... knock it down from $10M to $4M. We add $6M to our cap.

We cut him after the season is over, designated as a June 1st cut. His cap hit for 2015 is only $3.5M. His cap hit for 2016 is $3.5M.

No need to cut him, then resign him. Not pushing anything into the future, that isn't already accounted for already in the future. We gain $13.5M towards our 2015 cap. We gain $15.5M towards our 2016 cap.


You want us to cut him, take the $10M hit, then pay him $4M for 2014. He'll still have the same $4M "cap hit" what would be the point?

We'd be better off to just let him play out his contract as is.

I never said pay him $4M. The only thing we could do to eliminate, rather than defer dead money is to renegotiate his contract to one year and take the hit in 2014. But that would still entail paying him $10.5M and whatever salary required for a veteran of his experience. I think the problem we have is about shifting the dead money. I'd take the hit in 2014 rather than shift it to the future.

But I'm a patient guy and many aren't. So spend spend spend and gripe in the future about lack of cap space. Even gripe about it being all Ricks fault for mismanaging the cap. It's what many do anyway.

infantrycak
01-24-2014, 04:56 PM
I never said pay him $4M. The only thing we could do to eliminate, rather than defer dead money is to renegotiate his contract to one year and take the hit in 2014. But that would still entail paying him $10.5M and whatever salary required for a veteran of his experience. I think the problem we have is about shifting the dead money. I'd take the hit in 2014 rather than shift it to the future.

Not going to happen but they could knock his salary down to league min. for next season and leave everything else in place as is - they do not have to do a new 1 year deal.

Actually what they would be doing is eliminating the per game roster bonus next season which is what folks are citing as his salary.

Marshall
01-24-2014, 05:02 PM
Not going to happen but they could knock his salary down to league min. for next season and leave everything else in place as is - they do not have to do a new 1 year deal.

Actually what they would be doing is eliminating the per game roster bonus next season which is what folks are citing as his salary.

Leaving his contract in place just defers $7M of his dead money. But we're just talking in circles now, so I give up. Just see what happens and if his contract remains in place, then I'll join the chorus that wants Rick gone for being incompetent.

CloakNNNdagger
01-24-2014, 06:49 PM
CnD, is his foot healed? Will it be better this year?

In your opinion does he have a physical thing or just a head thing ailing him?

From prior CnD discussions - Schaub's injury is healed. BUT it is the kind of injury which leaves the foot subject to fatigue over the course of a season with a degenerating recovery cycle. So to illustrate with numbers (totally made up), during offseason #1 he will get back to 95% and then as the season progresses go down to 50% then in offseason #2 he will get back to 90% and then as the season progresses go down to 45%, and so on. It isn't a new injury or a re-injury, it is just a degenerative state.

Cak has given a simplified yet pretty accurate summary of my previous analyses. To add to this, I would say that anyone who sees their body physically "degenerating" before their eyes will empirically suffer from degenerating confidence. Where the body goes, the "head" quickly follows. At one point in time, taking a chance on such a player, especially a QB who has never been considered "elite" to begin with, for even just a short stint will prove itself nothing but potentially catastrophic. I wouldn't touch Schaub now under any circumstances.

thunderkyss
01-24-2014, 08:16 PM
I never said pay him $4M. The only thing we could do to eliminate, rather than defer dead money is to renegotiate his contract to one year and take the hit in 2014. But that would still entail paying him $10.5M and whatever salary required for a veteran of his experience. I think the problem we have is about shifting the dead money. I'd take the hit in 2014 rather than shift it to the future.


This is where I get lost.

If we cut him, why do we have to pay him $10.5M?

If he plays under his current contract, we pay him $10.5M. His cap number would be $14.5M because of the $1M roster bonus & $3.5M pro-rated signing bonus.

If we cut him & take the full hit, $10.5M of dead money hits our cap because of money already paid to Schaub that hasn't been accounted for. $3.5M/yr for the remaining years (3) of the contract.

If we then sign him for vet minimum (which I believe is $1M) that will take away from the $4M we save by cutting him. 2014's cap is increased by $3M, but we gain $17M on the 2015 cap & $19M on the 2016 cap.

I said to pay him $4M. Renegotiate his current contract. Cut him in 2015. We then gain $6M for 2014...... we need as much as we can for 2014 if we're going to field a 53 man roster, regardless of whether we sign Jj in the future or not, we've got to field a team in 2014.

Doing it this way, we gain $6M towards the 2014 cap instead of the $4M by straight cutting Schaub. We would gain $14M on the 2015 cap & $16M on the 2016 cap.

If we make him a 2014 June 1st cut, we gain $11M in 2014, $10M in 2015, & $19M in 2016.

So, since we're playing chess now:

Take the hit in 2014
2014 +$4M, 2015 +$17M, 2016 +$19M
June 1, 2014 cut
2014 +$11M, 2015 +$10M, 2016 +$19M
Renegotiate & cut June 1, 2015
2014 +$6M, 2015 +$15M, 2016 +$16M


It's just my opinion, but if the main concern is freeing up money for Jj Watt, as the Texans I would pick up his 5th year & offer him a big contract in 2016 or franchise him in 2016. Making him a 2014 June 1st cut maximizes our cap in both 2014 & 2016.

beerlover
01-24-2014, 08:40 PM
What do you guys think, does Matt Schaub take the money & run or will he be willing to restructure (give back to lesson cap hit) & remain the Texans back-up QB? could be a win win... certainly he owes the franchise & the franchise owes him :kitten:

thunderkyss
01-24-2014, 09:17 PM
What do you guys think, does Matt Schaub take the money & run or will he be willing to restructure (give back to lesson cap hit) & remain the Texans back-up QB? could be a win win... certainly he owes the franchise & the franchise owes him :kitten:

I don't know.... if I had "fans" showing up at my house being ugly, & "fans" cheering when I get injured..... then got benched by a guy who can't read a blitz....

I'd take my chances elsewhere.

Playoffs
01-24-2014, 09:25 PM
What do you guys think, does Matt Schaub take the money & run or...

He can't run. :kitten:

beerlover
01-24-2014, 09:31 PM
I don't know.... if I had "fans" showing up at my house being ugly, & "fans" cheering when I get injured..... then got benched by a guy who can't read a blitz....

I'd take my chances elsewhere.

Winning solves everything but understand City is out on him. He could prove useful in back-up role only, not as a starter. Certainly better insurance than another Matt (Leinart).

beerlover
01-24-2014, 09:32 PM
He can't run. :kitten:

your a cold dude :shades:

kiwitexansfan
01-24-2014, 11:52 PM
Cak has given a simplified yet pretty accurate summary of my previous analyses. To add to this, I would say that anyone who sees their body physically "degenerating" before their eyes will empirically suffer from degenerating confidence. Where the body goes, the "head" quickly follows. At one point in time, taking a chance on such a player, especially a QB who has never been considered "elite" to begin with, for even just a short stint will prove itself nothing but potentially catastrophic. I wouldn't touch Schaub now under any circumstances.

Not going to happen but they could knock his salary down to league min. for next season and leave everything else in place as is - they do not have to do a new 1 year deal.

Actually what they would be doing is eliminating the per game roster bonus next season which is what folks are citing as his salary.

In that case, do not want.

Marshall
01-25-2014, 04:11 AM
This is where I get lost.

If we cut him, why do we have to pay him $10.5M?

If he plays under his current contract, we pay him $10.5M. His cap number would be $14.5M because of the $1M roster bonus & $3.5M pro-rated signing bonus.

If we cut him & take the full hit, $10.5M of dead money hits our cap because of money already paid to Schaub that hasn't been accounted for. $3.5M/yr for the remaining years (3) of the contract.

If we then sign him for vet minimum (which I believe is $1M) that will take away from the $4M we save by cutting him. 2014's cap is increased by $3M, but we gain $17M on the 2015 cap & $19M on the 2016 cap.

I said to pay him $4M. Renegotiate his current contract. Cut him in 2015. We then gain $6M for 2014...... we need as much as we can for 2014 if we're going to field a 53 man roster, regardless of whether we sign Jj in the future or not, we've got to field a team in 2014.

Doing it this way, we gain $6M towards the 2014 cap instead of the $4M by straight cutting Schaub. We would gain $14M on the 2015 cap & $16M on the 2016 cap.

If we make him a 2014 June 1st cut, we gain $11M in 2014, $10M in 2015, & $19M in 2016.

So, since we're playing chess now:

Take the hit in 2014
2014 +$4M, 2015 +$17M, 2016 +$19M
June 1, 2014 cut
2014 +$11M, 2015 +$10M, 2016 +$19M
Renegotiate & cut June 1, 2015
2014 +$6M, 2015 +$15M, 2016 +$16M


It's just my opinion, but if the main concern is freeing up money for Jj Watt, as the Texans I would pick up his 5th year & offer him a big contract in 2016 or franchise him in 2016. Making him a 2014 June 1st cut maximizes our cap in both 2014 & 2016.

If we cut him, why do we have to pay him $10.5M?

Because he has $10.5M remaining dead money derived from his $14 signing bonus to account for ($3.5M was counted against the 2013 Cap). Currently, it would be divided between 2014, 2015 and 2016 @ $3.5M per year. If the player is cut normally, then all his remaining signing bonus is counted against the current years cap. In the case of Schaub, it would be $10.5M. The exception would be to make him a June 1 cut which then count $3.5M against 2014 and $7M against 2015. Essentially shifting $7M of a normal cut in 2014 ahead to 2015. The total cap hit remains the same. The hit is just shifted to different years.

Any change to his Base Salary and/or his Roster bonus must entail renegotiating his contract. But if cut, it all goes away. Nothing done there affects the dead money. Just additional money he could earn above dead money.

Not knowing the details, I assume there is no remaining guaranteed money outside of his signing bonus. (This is an area where litigation takes place. Is there a guarantee against injury and is this an injury related cut? That sort of thing)

[B]If we then sign him for vet minimum (which I believe is $1M) that will take away from the $4M we save by cutting him. 2014's cap is increased by $3M, but we gain $17M on the 2015 cap & $19M on the 2016 cap.


Your on track here.

So, since we're playing chess now:

Take the hit in 2014
2014 +$4M, 2015 +$17M, 2016 +$19M

Total Cap Savings
2014 $14.5M minus $10.5M DM or $4m as you say
2015 $13.5M 12.5M Salary plus $1M Roster or $13.5M ($3.5M was shifted to 2014)
2016 $14.5M Salary plus $1M Roster or $15.5M ($3.5M was shifted to 2014)
Total Cap Savings $30M

June 1, 2014 cut
2014 +$11M, 2015 +$10M, 2016 +$19M
Total Cap Savings $30M

Renegotiate & cut June 1, 2015
2014 +$6M, 2015 +$15M, 2016 +$16M
This is where your numbers get confused:
There will be $3.5M dead money and at least $1M minimum Salary.
The total Cap Savings will be reduced to $29M because of the $1M Salary.
Being a June 1 2015 cut just moves $3.5M DM from 2015 to 2016 so your total savings of $37M is not accounted for properly. Something in your cap savings is counted twice.

thunderkyss
01-25-2014, 08:03 AM
If we cut him, why do we have to pay him $10.5M?

Because he has $10.5M remaining dead money derived from his $14 signing bonus to account for ($3.5M was counted against the 2013 Cap). Currently, it would be divided between 2014, 2015 and 2016 @ $3.5M per year. If the player is cut normally, then all his remaining signing bonus is counted against the current years cap.


Ok... I think it's a semantics thing. You're saying we would "pay" him, which isn't technically correct. That money is already paid to him, we just have to account for it on our cap.

What I'm saying, is if we cut him take the hit in 2014, then resign him, whatever salary we pay him will be in addition to the $10.5M dead money hit we're already taking for him. So instead of taking a $14M cap hit to let him play out his contract, we'll take at least an $11M cap hit to cut then resign him.


Any change to his Base Salary and/or his Roster bonus must entail renegotiating his contract. But if cut, it all goes away. Nothing done there affects the dead money. Just additional money he could earn above dead money.


Right... sorry, this is what I just said above.


So, since we're playing chess now:

Take the hit in 2014
2014 +$4M, 2015 +$17M, 2016 +$19M

Total Cap Savings
2014 $14.5M minus $10.5M DM or $4m as you say
2015 $13.5M 12.5M Salary plus $1M Roster or $13.5M ($3.5M was shifted to 2014)
2016 $14.5M Salary plus $1M Roster or $15.5M ($3.5M was shifted to 2014)
Total Cap Savings $30M


Right now Schaub counts for $17M against the 2015 cap, & $19M against the 2016 cap. If we take the full $10.5 dead money hit in 2014, the entire value of his contract comes off in 2015 & 2016


June 1, 2014 cut
2014 +$11M, 2015 +$10M, 2016 +$19M
Total Cap Savings $30M

Renegotiate & cut June 1, 2015
2014 +$6M, 2015 +$15M, 2016 +$16M
This is where your numbers get confused:
There will be $3.5M dead money and at least $1M minimum Salary.
The total Cap Savings will be reduced to $29M because of the $1M Salary.
Being a June 1 2015 cut just moves $3.5M DM from 2015 to 2016 so your total savings of $37M is not accounted for properly. Something in your cap savings is counted twice.


Same reasoning as above. Click on the 2015 & 2016 (http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans) tabs.... I'm not calculating these numbers in my head, these are their numbers. Go to the 2014 tab & click the submit button under cut, you can see how all the numbers change for the 2014, 2015, & 2016 cap.

Click unsubmit. Then select June 1st cut, see how the numbers change.

Goldensilence
01-25-2014, 10:54 AM
I don't really see the point of retaining Schuab unless O'Brien feels like the can make him serviceable for next year. Other than that his contract is going to be nothing short of an albatross for this franchise.

O'Brien might be familiar with Mallet but, what kind of real upgrade are we getting? And for what price tag? The draft pick wouldn't bother me much as what kind of contract we could be looking at.

Clowney at #1 bothers me for a player who I am not sure about his motor, but his measureables are through the roof. Reminds me of Mario Williams all over again. Also where do we play him and find him PT over Smith? So we draft a part time player at #1? Why?

I'm more of a Bridgewater guy. I think he's got it in between the ears more than any of the other prospects this year. If O'Brien likes Bortles better than go with him. Either way to me it's pretty clear this team needs to figure out the QB position long term.

CloakNNNdagger
01-25-2014, 09:52 PM
Interesting tweets. :chef:


James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN Jan 22

Talking with several scouts & experts, all said Derek Carr is either most talented player at #SeniorBowl or will be 1st player there drafted

Gus ‏@TheGustavoDiaz 2h

@JPalmerCSN no way the #Texans draft D.Carr hell no!!


James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN 2h

@TheGustavoDiaz they said first player THERE (at the senior bowl) drafted. Not first player drafted.

Brisco_County
01-26-2014, 12:46 PM
My prediction: At the Combine interviews, Bill O'Brien falls in love with Bridgewater.

Insideop
01-26-2014, 03:41 PM
My prediction: At the Combine interviews, Bill O'Brien falls in love with Bridgewater.

I think that's a pretty good prediction! And, I hope it comes true! :)

Insideop
01-26-2014, 03:50 PM
Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls as a game manager. He's won none since becoming "the GOAT"

Rothlisberger won his first SuperBowl as a game manager.

Flacco.... game manager.

There's nothing wrong with a game manager if he's got some plus ability. For Brady & Roethlisberger, it was their ability to extend plays & make plays downfield. Flacco was probably the best QB of the group when he won his first Super Bowl... more plays from the pocket.

Trent Dilfer & Brad Johnson were on the lower end of the spectrum when talking about "game managers."

OK. Yes, all QB's are game managers to some extent. But, the QB's I mentioned in my previous post are the one's I feel that are missing some of that "plus ability" you talked about, whether it's something physical or mental.

Number19
01-26-2014, 04:12 PM
...I think he's (Bridgewater) got it in between the ears more than any of the other prospects this year. If O'Brien likes Bortles better than go with him. Either way to me it's pretty clear this team needs to figure out the QB position long term.

My prediction: At the Combine interviews, Bill O'Brien falls in love with Bridgewater.

I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but this radio interview with Brett Kollmann is an excellant analysis of O'Brien's offense and what it requires of the QB.

http://houston.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcbshouston.files.wordpre ss.com%2F2014%2F01%2Fbrett-kollman-012014.mp3&podcast_name=Brett+Kollmann+Interview&podcast_artist=Ted+Johnson+and+Patrick+Creighton&station_id=63&audio_link=true&config_file=config.xml&dcid=CBS.HOUSTON

drs23
01-27-2014, 09:25 AM
I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but this radio interview with Brett Kollmann is an excellant analysis of O'Brien's offense and what it requires of the QB.

http://houston.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcbshouston.files.wordpre ss.com%2F2014%2F01%2Fbrett-kollman-012014.mp3&podcast_name=Brett+Kollmann+Interview&podcast_artist=Ted+Johnson+and+Patrick+Creighton&station_id=63&audio_link=true&config_file=config.xml&dcid=CBS.HOUSTON

It has been and I'm pretty sure mussop heard it. :kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
01-27-2014, 12:26 PM
I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but this radio interview with Brett Kollmann is an excellant analysis of O'Brien's offense and what it requires of the QB.

http://houston.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcbshouston.files.wordpre ss.com%2F2014%2F01%2Fbrett-kollman-012014.mp3&podcast_name=Brett+Kollmann+Interview&podcast_artist=Ted+Johnson+and+Patrick+Creighton&station_id=63&audio_link=true&config_file=config.xml&dcid=CBS.HOUSTON

Listening to Kollmann, O'Brien's offensive ability to option almost unlimited in scope at the line falls right into line with what Keenum was allowed and led to his success at U of H. It will be interesting to see if O'Brien finds Keenum a QB he can feel comfortable with.

badboy
01-27-2014, 12:36 PM
Listening to Kollmann, O'Brien's offensive ability to option almost unlimited in scope at the line falls right into line with what Keenum was allowed and led to his success at U of H. It will be interesting to see if O'Brien finds Keenum a QB he can feel comfortable with.

Good point Doc and Keenum has always been good student of game.

The Pencil Neck
01-27-2014, 01:06 PM
Something interesting but...

In one of OB's early interviews, he mentioned that he'd already met Case and Schaub. And he's said he believes that he can adapt/build his offense around any sort of QB.

I wonder if he'll forego drafting a QB until later rounds and throw everyone a curveball.

It would be interesting to see what he could do with Mettenberger.

Number19
01-27-2014, 05:24 PM
Listening to Kollmann, O'Brien's offensive ability to option almost unlimited in scope at the line falls right into line with what Keenum was allowed and led to his success at U of H. It will be interesting to see if O'Brien finds Keenum a QB he can feel comfortable with.Careful there, I was asking this about a week or so ago, not in so much detail, and really got savaged for this heresy.

b0ng
01-30-2014, 08:39 AM
Listening to Kollmann, O'Brien's offensive ability to option almost unlimited in scope at the line falls right into line with what Keenum was allowed and led to his success at U of H. It will be interesting to see if O'Brien finds Keenum a QB he can feel comfortable with.

He could surprise us and go with one of Case or Schaub as the week one starter, but I have doubts that O'Brien would tip his hand this early as to whether he believes the 2014 starter is already on the roster or not. I want to use the phrase "playing close to their vest" in the coming months when houstontexans.com starts putting out pieces on current players and possible draft picks. I doubt the org or O'Brien himself will really put out whom they feel will be the top pick unless it's a slam-dunk sort of proposition (Like one of Manziel, Teddy, or Clowney cements themselves at the Combine and pro-days).

Marshall
01-30-2014, 08:46 AM
Ok... I think it's a semantics thing. You're saying we would "pay" him, which isn't technically correct. That money is already paid to him, we just have to account for it on our cap.

What I'm saying, is if we cut him take the hit in 2014, then resign him, whatever salary we pay him will be in addition to the $10.5M dead money hit we're already taking for him. So instead of taking a $14M cap hit to let him play out his contract, we'll take at least an $11M cap hit to cut then resign him.



Right... sorry, this is what I just said above.



Right now Schaub counts for $17M against the 2015 cap, & $19M against the 2016 cap. If we take the full $10.5 dead money hit in 2014, the entire value of his contract comes off in 2015 & 2016



Same reasoning as above. Click on the 2015 & 2016 (http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans) tabs.... I'm not calculating these numbers in my head, these are their numbers. Go to the 2014 tab & click the submit button under cut, you can see how all the numbers change for the 2014, 2015, & 2016 cap.

Click unsubmit. Then select June 1st cut, see how the numbers change.

I don't trust spreadsheets for the finished product. It's too easy to mess up an algorithm during the setup. It's possible that happened here or there was an entry made which overwrote the algorithm. But from a Contract and accounting standpoint, you can't manipulate greater savings than the entire contract started with. That $30M will only go down with any additional base salary, whether renegotiated or a new contract.

Marshall
01-30-2014, 08:51 AM
Careful there, I was asking this about a week or so ago, not in so much detail, and really got savaged for this heresy.

I don't understand why some people think any area star has to be bad and only "foreign" stars are talented. Simple attendance at UH is sufficient for many to dismiss him.

DX-TEX
01-30-2014, 12:40 PM
http://www.cardchronicle.com/2014/1/29/5358398/teddy-bridgewater-talks-draft-charlie-strong-and-the-upcoming-season

On why it's important to him to be the No. 1 pick:

"I've been purpose-driven my whole life, and I've had to make many sacrifices. Whether it was not going to school to take care of my mom when she was going through breast cancer treatment or telling the University of Louisville that I didn't want a Heisman campaign, because I've always been taught to sacrifice personal glory for team success. I just feel that with all my sacrifices and everything, that this is the time. I just want to be that guy."


With that one line BOB just got QB wood.

Welcome to Houston Teddy!

Playoffs
01-30-2014, 01:17 PM
With that one line BOB just got QB wood.

Welcome to Houston Teddy!

Do we have to say QB wood? Is there a less uncomfortable term we can use amongst manly men to describe an affinity for a particular player? :kitten:

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2014, 01:53 PM
Do we have to say QB wood? Is there a less uncomfortable term we can use amongst manly men to describe an affinity for a particular player? :kitten:

No.

ObsiWan
01-30-2014, 01:53 PM
http://www.cardchronicle.com/2014/1/29/5358398/teddy-bridgewater-talks-draft-charlie-strong-and-the-upcoming-season



With that one line BOB just got QB wood.

Welcome to Houston Teddy!

Yeah... you might be right.
But I'm sure O'Brien will wait to see what TB does at the combine before asking him to go steady

badboy
01-30-2014, 01:58 PM
http://www.cardchronicle.com/2014/1/29/5358398/teddy-bridgewater-talks-draft-charlie-strong-and-the-upcoming-season



With that one line BOB just got QB wood.

Welcome to Houston Teddy!

Don't we already have a QB with cancer awareness, that did mouth off about his personal glory, etc? All fine but does not get the ball deep or accurate.

DX-TEX
01-30-2014, 02:22 PM
Do we have to say QB wood? Is there a less uncomfortable term we can use amongst manly men to describe an affinity for a particular player? :kitten:

Just accept it. I have this weird feeling for JJ. Man crushes are real

_King_
01-30-2014, 02:28 PM
You're just curious.

ChampionTexan
01-30-2014, 02:29 PM
http://www.cardchronicle.com/2014/1/29/5358398/teddy-bridgewater-talks-draft-charlie-strong-and-the-upcoming-season



With that one line BOB just got QB wood.

Welcome to Houston Teddy!
Do we have to say QB wood? Is there a less uncomfortable term we can use amongst manly men to describe an affinity for a particular player? :kitten:

HC wood?

CloakNNNdagger
01-30-2014, 07:35 PM
Everyone seems concentrated on what type of QB OB is going to want. My concern at this point in time is what he intends to do about the OL scheme and personnel. Seems like all the top teams/QBs are playing with strong OL. It does no good to have a QB that spends most of his time watching from the sidelines. My concern is that our OL be the protective equivalent of a condom that is unlikely to ever break. OB's curious and weak choice of Dunn as the OL "supervisor" now worries me that we will have someone potentially saboutaging our best condoms money can buy, by poking them with pins.

houstonspartan
01-30-2014, 07:43 PM
Everyone seems concentrated on what type of QB OB is going to want. My concern at this point in time is what he intends to do about the OL scheme and personnel. Seems like all the top teams/QBs are playing with strong OL. It does no good to have a QB that spends most of his time watching from the sidelines. My concern is that our OL be the protective equivalent of a condom that is unlikely to ever break. OB's curious and weak choice of Dunn as the OL "supervisor" now worries me that we will have someone potentially saboutaging our best condoms money can buy, by poking them with pins.


Lmao at your analogy. Nice.

For the first year or so, I'm probably going to judge O'Brien more on his ability to fire than to hire (that, and his record). If the OL coach is a bust, get rid of him. Under Kubiak, we had to accept that all hires would be here at least 3-5 years, regardless of performance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

aussie_texan
01-31-2014, 01:12 AM
Everyone seems concentrated on what type of QB OB is going to want. My concern at this point in time is what he intends to do about the OL scheme and personnel. Seems like all the top teams/QBs are playing with strong OL. It does no good to have a QB that spends most of his time watching from the sidelines. My concern is that our OL be the protective equivalent of a condom that is unlikely to ever break. OB's curious and weak choice of Dunn as the OL "supervisor" now worries me that we will have someone potentially saboutaging our best condoms money can buy, by poking them with pins.

once we upgrade the LG and RT position we should be fine.
Even upgrading those position to average would send the line potential back to top 10 level.

CloakNNNdagger
01-31-2014, 09:31 AM
610 interviewed Theisman re. the Texans QB draft situation. He essentially stated that he felt that there is no one out there that would be worth taking as a first. He commented that Schaub has taken this team as far as he will ever be able to do. He said that he felt that Keenum given a fair shake and under the tutelage of the new regime would give the Texans the best option for success.

Raf
01-31-2014, 09:38 AM
Everyone seems concentrated on what type of QB OB is going to want. My concern at this point in time is what he intends to do about the OL scheme and personnel. Seems like all the top teams/QBs are playing with strong OL. It does no good to have a QB that spends most of his time watching from the sidelines. My concern is that our OL be the protective equivalent of a condom that is unlikely to ever break. OB's curious and weak choice of Dunn as the OL "supervisor" now worries me that we will have someone potentially saboutaging our best condoms money can buy, by poking them with pins.

I'm with you on this big time. Build the trenches up. Even if that means you're only competitive. Everyone will be aware of the fact that you're simply a QB away from being dominant. That will mean going 6-10 to 8-8 maybe even 9-7 with very close losses even against the dominant/elite teams, perhaps even sprinkling in an upset here or there. If and when you do land a stud or very good QB, you're ready to tango with the best of them.

Look back at the now powerhouse teams that earlier in the 2000s had pretty good defenses along with impressive O-lines. They were competitive. Insert a Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco....instant contenders. Fast forward to recent years, insert Wilson into a very Steelers/Ravensish type situation and look what you have. 49ers and most recently the Chiefs, it seemed, were primed with stacked talent and only a competent coach away from becoming a contender.

You then have times where you nab/acquire a QB that is so good he makes up for areas that are seriously lacking, ala Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck....but this example is more like hitting the lottery so it's best to build the team and especially the trenches that yield better chances of becoming dominant by landing a very good but not great QB to compliment the overall team.

Playoffs
01-31-2014, 09:40 AM
610 interviewed Theisman re. the Texans QB draft situation. He essentially stated that he felt that there is no one out there that would be worth taking as a first...

Trade down or 1-1 or trading back into the end of the first I think we secure our QB in the first round. Who that guy is dictates how we get him. And I don't think they're set on any one guy at this time. We've got 97 days.

http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/f/football-3861.gif

Number19
01-31-2014, 10:53 AM
Everyone seems concentrated on what type of QB OB is going to want. My concern at this point in time is what he intends to do about the OL scheme and personnel. Seems like all the top teams/QBs are playing with strong OL. It does no good to have a QB that spends most of his time watching from the sidelines. My concern is that our OL be the protective equivalent of a condom that is unlikely to ever break. OB's curious and weak choice of Dunn as the OL "supervisor" now worries me that we will have someone potentially saboutaging our best condoms money can buy, by poking them with pins.Until we release some current contracts and free up cap space, we have limited resources to sign FA's. We have only seven draft picks and #6 & #7 are always questionable as to immediate impact; #5 is borderline. So that leaves four draft picks to address all the question marks on offense and defense. This is my concern.

Number19
01-31-2014, 10:59 AM
610 interviewed Theisman re. the Texans QB draft situation. He essentially stated that he felt that there is no one out there that would be worth taking as a first. He commented that Schaub has taken this team as far as he will ever be able to do. He said that he felt that Keenum given a fair shake and under the tutelage of the new regime would give the Texans the best option for success.Unfortunately because of league rules, OB will be unable to see what Keenum has with on field time. His assessment will need to be made with film study and classroom time with Keenum. I'm on record with my opinion that, if this predraft assessment is positive, then this is our best case scenario, allowing us to trade down for extra picks, addressing my concern expressed in my post a few moments ago.

infantrycak
01-31-2014, 11:04 AM
Unfortunately because of league rules, OB will be unable to see what Keenum has with on field time. His assessment will need to be made with film study and classroom time with Keenum. I'm on record with my opinion that, if this predraft assessment is positive, then this is our best case scenario, allowing us to trade down for extra picks, addressing my concern expressed in my post a few moments ago.

What league rules are you referring to?

Number19
01-31-2014, 11:36 AM
What league rules are you referring to?Last week I found that the league has rules and dates proscribing when teams may practice, whether in shorts or pads, etc. How far coaches can go circumventing these, is up to interpretation. But "team activities" are restricted to the dates below. My interpretation is that the April 15 date refers to "strength, conditioning and physical rehabilitation". The start of on field activities begin after the draft on May 8-10.

This is for 2013, but 2014 will be similar: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000155146/article/nfl-announces-dates-for-offseason-workouts

Following is the NFL Offseason Workout Program calendar for 2013. Voluntary offseason workout programs are intended to provide training, teaching and physical conditioning for players.

As per Article 21 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, each club's official, voluntary nine-week offseason program is conducted in three phases:

Phase One consists of the first two weeks of the program with activities limited to strength and conditioning and physical rehabilitation only.

Phase Two consists of the next three weeks of the program. On-field workouts may include individual player instruction and drills as well as team practice conducted on a "separates" basis. No live contact or team offense vs. team defense drills are permitted.

Phase Three consists of the next four weeks of the program. Teams may conduct a total of 10 days of organized team practice activity, or "OTAs". No live contact is permitted, but 7-on-7, 9-on-7, and 11-on-11 drills are permissible.

Article 22 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement stipulates that clubs may hold one mandatory minicamp for veteran players. This minicamp, noted below, must occur during Phase Three of the offseason program. Head coaches hired after the end of the 2012 season are also entitled to conduct an additional voluntary veteran minicamp.

Each club may hold a rookie football development program for a period of seven weeks, which in 2013 may begin on May 13. During this period, no activities may be held on weekends, with the exception of one post-NFL Draft rookie minicamp, which may be conducted on either the first or second weekend following the draft.

For specific information and detailed offseason program rules, please see Articles 21 and 22 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (beginning on page 131), available on nflmedia.com and nflcommunications.com.

Dates are tentative and subject to change:

Houston Texans: First day - April 15; Organized team activities - May 20, 21, 23, 28-30, June 3-6; Minicamps - June 11-13; Rookie minicamps - May 10-12

badboy
01-31-2014, 11:37 AM
I'm with you on this big time. Build the trenches up. Even if that means you're only competitive. Everyone will be aware of the fact that you're simply a QB away from being dominant. That will mean going 6-10 to 8-8 maybe even 9-7 with very close losses even against the dominant/elite teams, perhaps even sprinkling in an upset here or there. If and when you do land a stud or very good QB, you're ready to tango with the best of them.

Look back at the now powerhouse teams that earlier in the 2000s had pretty good defenses along with impressive O-lines. They were competitive. Insert a Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco....instant contenders. Fast forward to recent years, insert Wilson into a very Steelers/Ravensish type situation and look what you have. 49ers and most recently the Chiefs, it seemed, were primed with stacked talent and only a competent coach away from becoming a contender.

You then have times where you nab/acquire a QB that is so good he makes up for areas that are seriously lacking, ala Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck....but this example is more like hitting the lottery so it's best to build the team and especially the trenches that yield better chances of becoming dominant by landing a very good but not great QB to compliment the overall team.while I agree with building trenches, if you don't take QB when he is there you don't know when you will land another. Same with my wanting JuWaun James second day but if I wait until 3rd and he goes late second....depends on the risks you are willing to take.

Also, if you wait until 2015 to get QB, you still could miss unless 1-3. Winston is hot now but will he be next season? Will he return to school?

badboy
01-31-2014, 11:42 AM
Until we release some current contracts and free up cap space, we have limited resources to sign FA's. We have only seven draft picks and #6 & #7 are always questionable as to immediate impact; #5 is borderline. So that leaves four draft picks to address all the question marks on offense and defense. This is my concern.QB, ILB, Nose and replacement for Ninja is pretty good. If Reed can switch to ILB we then draft OLB. Four starters would be very solid day one. If we trade down we could add a couple more starters/depth and that is just trading down 1-1. We could also trade down in second and third getting additional picks those two rounds.

DX-TEX
01-31-2014, 11:56 AM
In all this talk about our future QB poor TJ Yates is just a forgotten soul.

infantrycak
01-31-2014, 12:00 PM
Last week I found that the league has rules and dates proscribing when teams may practice, whether in shorts or pads, etc....

Thought that was where you were going.

I don't see that as a significant impediment to OB forming an opinion. He'll have far more than he will in evaluating college QBs (or for that matter potential NFL FAs or trade acquisitions) - actual NFL film and a load of Texans practices when he was preparing to start (the Texans film all practices).

badboy
01-31-2014, 12:09 PM
In all this talk about our future QB poor TJ Yates is just a forgotten soul.Well he cannot blame it on the Bossanova, he has only to look in the mirror.

Number19
01-31-2014, 12:13 PM
QB, ILB, Nose and replacement for Ninja is pretty good. If Reed can switch to ILB we then draft OLB. Four starters would be very solid day one. If we trade down we could add a couple more starters/depth and that is just trading down 1-1. We could also trade down in second and third getting additional picks those two rounds.I agree with your priorities, but I'd like to add an OL'man. I'd also like to add an OLB with real speed in addition to an ILB. I'm liking Barr more and more with our first pick, to pair with Skov on the inside. So I have six priorities rather than four. And we will sign at least one FA. If we go with a QB with the first pick, I believe next season will be interesting but we'll still have holes. I'd expect somewhere about 7-9 or 8-8, with Bridgewater. Less with Bortles. And I agree with trading down in lower rounds. That 2-1 pick to begin the second day will be a valuable trade option.

I'd like Keenum's pre-draft assessment to be positive, but otherwise, the best fit for OB's offense, for immediate impact, would be Bridgewater.

badboy
01-31-2014, 01:14 PM
I agree with your priorities, but I'd like to add an OL'man. I'd also like to add an OLB with real speed in addition to an ILB. I'm liking Barr more and more with our first pick, to pair with Skov on the inside. So I have six priorities rather than four. And we will sign at least one FA. If we go with a QB with the first pick, I believe next season will be interesting but we'll still have holes. I'd expect somewhere about 7-9 or 8-8, with Bridgewater. Less with Bortles. And I agree with trading down in lower rounds. That 2-1 pick to begin the second day will be a valuable trade option.

I'd like Keenum's pre-draft assessment to be positive, but otherwise, the best fit for OB's offense, for immediate impact, would be Bridgewater.

yeah in my mock I have an OT/QB/DE in 2nd /3rd and 4th. My NT and an OLB/ILB in 5th. All start day one but I think a trade down happens.

Raf
01-31-2014, 01:16 PM
while I agree with building trenches, if you don't take QB when he is there you don't know when you will land another. Same with my wanting JuWaun James second day but if I wait until 3rd and he goes late second....depends on the risks you are willing to take.

Also, if you wait until 2015 to get QB, you still could miss unless 1-3. Winston is hot now but will he be next season? Will he return to school?

I hear ya. But I'm in no way saying to pass on anyone whom OB deems worthy to have as a franchise QB. I'm simply saying that, due to how senstive the QB position is....with it at times setting you back decades before you have THAT QB (even if only a Flacco/Roethlisber/Eli calibur), the former of the two (building team and later adding pretty good QB Vs. finding an Elway/Marino/Manning/Luck prospect) is an easier, albeit still very tough, formula.

badboy
01-31-2014, 01:27 PM
I hear ya. But I'm in no way saying to pass on anyone whom OB deems worthy to have as a franchise QB. I'm simply saying that, due to how senstive the QB position is....with it at times setting you back decades before you have THAT QB (even if only a Flacco/Roethlisber/Eli calibur), the former of the two (building team and later adding pretty good QB Vs. finding an Elway/Marino/Manning/Luck prospect) is an easier, albeit still very tough, formula.Understand but I think it would help if we would stop thinking we can get a type Q that you identify. We don't have to have one to be successful and there is none available anyway. I want a solid one that can man the position 4-5 years as fill as many other positions in 2014 with quality.

michaelm
01-31-2014, 01:51 PM
In all this talk about our future QB poor TJ Yates is just a forgotten soul.

What if, just what if, O'Brien throws everyone a curve-ball and makes Yates the 2014 starter?

CloakNNNdagger
01-31-2014, 02:01 PM
What if, just what if, O'Brien throws everyone a curve-ball and makes Yates the 2014 starter?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LrAFN3Ezu9U/Tcl8-5o5-pI/AAAAAAAAADk/zuEUjlTbqwM/s320/funny-drunk.jpg

DX-TEX
01-31-2014, 02:50 PM
What if, just what if, O'Brien throws everyone a curve-ball and makes Yates the 2014 starter?

That thought actually crossed my mind.

Number19
01-31-2014, 03:47 PM
What if, just what if, O'Brien throws everyone a curve-ball and makes Yates the 2014 starter?If we pick a QB 1-1, that player will start. He will not have earned the right to start. If anyone else starts, it will be because he will have earned it with his off-season preparation and production in the minicamps and training camp. We as fans should see this, as well, as the preseason develops.

Playoffs
01-31-2014, 04:26 PM
What if, just what if, O'Brien throws everyone a curve-ball and makes Yates the 2014 starter?

Already claimed that one (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2284532&highlight=Yates#post2284532). I think it could happen.

CloakNNNdagger
01-31-2014, 05:16 PM
Already claimed that one (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2284532&highlight=Yates#post2284532). I think it could happen.

If you believe that Schaub was always dealing with injuries, try to remember that Yates has proven to be quite fragile dating back to 2011.........dealing with shoulder problems (including a separation on one side), and throwing elbow and back problems since 2012.......and most of this after very little game play and very sparse practice time. There was good reason why Yates was given such little consideration for real game time after the 2011 season.......and did so poorly in his very limited 2012 and 2013 game appearances And there is no reason to believe that these type of mounting problems won't continue their course, and his performance continue to be unacceptable.

[This is not to even mention his Tar Heels experience where he was stricken with ankle sprains, ankle fracture, throwing shoulder problems leading to surgery, and, of course, his infamous thumb sprain incurred while playing Frisbee. The latter made national news due to the panzy-sounding event. He later tried to explain that he incurred it with a redshirt teammate in a informal non-contact "redshirt football" activity (which would be bad enough).]

Playoffs
01-31-2014, 07:58 PM
...try to remember that Yates has... shoulder problems (including a separation on one side), and throwing elbow and back problems since 2012... ankle sprains, ankle fracture, throwing shoulder problems leading to surgery, and, of course, his infamous thumb sprain incurred while playing Frisbee...

Well, eff the TJ Yates idea...

Looks like we're drafting!!! http://www.emofaces.nl/png/200/emoticons/biggrin.png

ObsiWan
02-01-2014, 05:07 AM
If you believe that Schaub was always dealing with injuries, try to remember that Yates has proven to be quite fragile dating back to 2011.........dealing with shoulder problems (including a separation on one side), and throwing elbow and back problems since 2012.......and most of this after very little game play and very sparse practice time. There was good reason why Yates was given such little consideration for real game time after the 2011 season.......and did so poorly in his very limited 2012 and 2013 game appearances And there is no reason to believe that these type of mounting problems won't continue their course, and his performance continue to be unacceptable.

[This is not to even mention his Tar Heels experience where he was stricken with ankle sprains, ankle fracture, throwing shoulder problems leading to surgery, and, of course, his infamous thumb sprain incurred while playing Frisbee. The latter made national news due to the panzy-sounding event. He later tried to explain that he incurred it with a redshirt teammate in a informal non-contact "redshirt football" activity (which would be bad enough).]
GeezUs!! Is there a photo of Yates in the dictionary next to the term "injury prone"?

I mean FRISBEE for cripes sakes!!
Was it full contact or flag frisbee?
:wadepalm:

infantrycak
02-01-2014, 07:55 AM
GeezUs!! Is there a photo of Yates in the dictionary next to the term "injury prone"?

I mean FRISBEE for cripes sakes!!
Was it full contact or flag frisbee?
:wadepalm:

Sadly, it was frisbee golf. Wicked carom off an oak he didn't see guarding the basket.

ObsiWan
02-01-2014, 09:03 AM
Sadly, it was frisbee golf. Wicked carom off an oak he didn't see guarding the basket.
I've never heard of frisbee golf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_golf)...
had to look that up

...you were kidding, right?
it was ultimate frisbee wasn't it??

Playoffs
02-03-2014, 01:45 PM
Our next guy needs to work like this guy. I don't recall anyone describing a Texan QB's work habits like this...

"If you drop a pass, he'll try to settle you and say, 'You have to make that play, you have to make that play,'" said Dreessen, who signed with the Denver Broncos in 2012. "It's not like he's trying to embarrass you or make you feel like crap. There was one time, I dropped a pass. It was in Mile High, a regular-season game. The sun was in my eyes and I couldn't see it and I couldn't bring in the ball. He yelled at me and I said, 'Man, I can't see.' The whole next week at practice, he was giving me grief for the sun being in my eyes. Basically, it was like, 'You have to learn to catch the ball even when the sun is in your eyes.

"When we miss a throw in practice, you can expect to stay after to do it again, even if it's just on air. He wants to walk off the field feeling good about every play.

"On game day, he's pretty serious. He doesn't joke in the huddle or on the sideline. He'll joke around in meetings at times, but I can't think of any game day where he did. Actually, I remember one game where he smiled. It was the opener [Manning's seven-touchdown performance]. I was inactive because I was hurt. He had just thrown touchdown No. 5 against the Ravens and I greeted him on the sideline. I said, 'Five touchdowns?!' He was smiling a little and, under his breath, he said, 'There might be more.' He was right.

"He's a machine. It makes you feel like, if you're in another offense or have another quarterback, you're beating your head against the wall because they can't do what he does as far as getting us in the best play every time. Really, he's like a scientist, except he's 6-foot-5 and he throws the ball amazingly accurate.

"He's going to put it most of the time where you -- and only you -- can catch it. When I first got here, I was frustrated because if I was wide open, most quarterbacks would put the ball right on me. But he's going to keep leading you so you can run underneath it and have more room to run after the catch, keeping it further away from the defender. It's a very catchable ball, a very accurate ball. Even when it's not, he expects you to catch it.

"You definitely want to match his work ethic and preparation. It kind of gets to be a competition: Who can know more about the opponent than Peyton? Who can know the offense better than Peyton? He'll go around the room and quiz guys about their assignments on particular plays. It happens all the time. He makes sure you're on top of it. He really does raise the expectation level at every position. Same with the coaches. He wants information from the coaches. Before he starts his preparation, he wants breakdowns and statistics. It's not just the players he raises up, it's the coaches, too.

"I always come in on Tuesday [our day off] to do some weight lifting. By the time I leave around lunch time, he's coming in early to get a jump-start with the coaches on the game plan. His day off is really not a day off. He truly honors all six months of the season. He takes a few hours off here and there, but I've never seen him take a full day off.

"Honestly, I can say he's not preparing any different for this game than he would a preseason game. I kid you not. Every game is important. To say he's preparing harder for the Super Bowl would be an insult because that would suggest he wasn't preparting as hard as he could for the other games.

"Some day, if I'm telling my grandchildren about Peyton Manning, I'd probably describe how gifted a person he is as far as his intelligence and his technique and his accuracy. I'd describe those things and add to it his work ethic. He's gifted, but he worked at it."
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/35138/ex-jet-tells-what-its-like-in-peytons-huddle

steelbtexan
02-03-2014, 02:09 PM
I'm with you on this big time. Build the trenches up. Even if that means you're only competitive. Everyone will be aware of the fact that you're simply a QB away from being dominant. That will mean going 6-10 to 8-8 maybe even 9-7 with very close losses even against the dominant/elite teams, perhaps even sprinkling in an upset here or there. If and when you do land a stud or very good QB, you're ready to tango with the best of them.

Look back at the now powerhouse teams that earlier in the 2000s had pretty good defenses along with impressive O-lines. They were competitive. Insert a Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco....instant contenders. Fast forward to recent years, insert Wilson into a very Steelers/Ravensish type situation and look what you have. 49ers and most recently the Chiefs, it seemed, were primed with stacked talent and only a competent coach away from becoming a contender.

You then have times where you nab/acquire a QB that is so good he makes up for areas that are seriously lacking, ala Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck....but this example is more like hitting the lottery so it's best to build the team and especially the trenches that yield better chances of becoming dominant by landing a very good but not great QB to compliment the overall team.

If the Texans came out of this draft with

Rd.1 Clowney
Rd.2 Nix
Rd.3 Bitonio
Rd.4 Brandon Thomas

Then pick RB/DB's after that I will be a happy man. Hopefully BoB learned that you have to fix the trenches 1st and foremost.

Marshall
02-03-2014, 02:19 PM
Do we have to say QB wood? Is there a less uncomfortable term we can use amongst manly men to describe an affinity for a particular player? :kitten:

I'm waiting on the east coast press to descend even as I type in search of the first out of the closet NFL Gay Icon to go giddy over. As soon as it happens, they'll immediately get enshrined into the HOF without even playing a down and his number will HAVE to be retired or you will be homophobic.

Letting the "Wood" cat out of the bag should be sufficient for the coronation.

I'm now waiting for the Golfing Wood to come out so he can get a little more accolades and everybody can forget the rest of the story of the last six years.

Marshall
02-03-2014, 02:23 PM
Unfortunately because of league rules, OB will be unable to see what Keenum has with on field time. His assessment will need to be made with film study and classroom time with Keenum. I'm on record with my opinion that, if this predraft assessment is positive, then this is our best case scenario, allowing us to trade down for extra picks, addressing my concern expressed in my post a few moments ago.

Good post since it matches my thoughts. Now prepare for the onslaught.

HOU-TEX
02-04-2014, 11:50 AM
Maybe he's been scouting the 'Hefty Lefty", who's playing for the Northern Kentucky River Monsters.

Y'all remember Jared Lorenzen

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfpGbV5CIAA7U_m.jpg

b0ng
02-04-2014, 12:35 PM
Maybe he's been scouting the 'Hefty Lefty", who's playing for the Northern Kentucky River Monsters.

Y'all remember Jared Lorenzen

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfpGbV5CIAA7U_m.jpg

Do the man some justice. At least post some game film (https://vine.co/v/MaaQAJE2m69). Or this reel (https://vine.co/v/MaWBrmQz07K).

God I love the Pillsbury Throwboy

CloakNNNdagger
02-04-2014, 05:06 PM
After watching the SB, I came away convinced as ever that in the NFL, without an OL capable of protecting the QB, even an elite QB like Manning will be made to look pathetic. Manning was made to look as ugly as Keenum.......even worse, because Manning looked "planted"....like he was just pleading to be watered.

Double Barrel
02-04-2014, 05:20 PM
After watching the SB, I came away convinced as ever that in the NFL, without an OL capable of protecting the QB, even an elite QB like Manning will be made to look pathetic. Manning was made to look as ugly as Keenum.......even worse, because Manning looked "planted"....like he was just pleading to be watered.

They had a compilation on NFLN of hits and hurries that Manning faced on Sunday, and it was brutal. He was getting pressure from all sides throughout the game. It looked like he was even anticipating phantom pressure at times. And with the way the Seahawks were covering receivers, taking away the long stuff and hitting anyone that caught the ball with a force of a locomotive, I am once again convinced in the belief of building trenches and defense as priorities for a championship caliber team.

kiwitexansfan
02-04-2014, 05:28 PM
They had a compilation on NFLN of hits and hurries that Manning faced on Sunday, and it was brutal. He was getting pressure from all sides throughout the game. It looked like he was even anticipating phantom pressure at times. And with the way the Seahawks were covering receivers, taking away the long stuff and hitting anyone that caught the ball with a force of a locomotive, I am once again convinced in the belief of building trenches and defense as priorities for a championship caliber team.

Throwing short so often to an aggressive defense was suicide.

Kill the body and the head will die.

Double Barrel
02-04-2014, 05:37 PM
Throwing short so often to an aggressive defense was suicide.

Kill the body and the head will die.

In one of the post game interviews, one member of the Seahawks secondary revealed the game plan was to give the Broncos those short crossing routes but to knock the hell out of them when they caught it. I doubt there was much YAC (yards after catch) for the Broncos in that game. The receivers were looking for the hit as soon as they caught the ball (and maybe even before they caught it).

It was a pretty amazing defensive performance, all things considered.

ArlingtonTexan
02-04-2014, 07:28 PM
They had a compilation on NFLN of hits and hurries that Manning faced on Sunday, and it was brutal. He was getting pressure from all sides throughout the game. It looked like he was even anticipating phantom pressure at times. And with the way the Seahawks were covering receivers, taking away the long stuff and hitting anyone that caught the ball with a force of a locomotive, I am once again convinced in the belief of building trenches and defense as priorities for a championship caliber team.

You are not incorrect in terms a great defense being key to a championship, but the window in salary cap football is really short. of all the great defenses, starting with the bears, the teams only won once and too often were not real contenders. Its way harder and lasts three or fours years on the long end.

JRingo
02-04-2014, 07:34 PM
You are not incorrect in terms a great defense being key to a championship, but the window in salary cap football is really short. of all the great defenses, starting with the bears, the teams only won once and too often were not real contenders. Its way harder and lasts three or fours years on the long end.

Good post.

JRingo
02-04-2014, 07:35 PM
Throwing short so often to an aggressive defense was suicide.

Kill the body and the head will die.

Agreed.

HOU-TEX
02-05-2014, 09:46 AM
Sounds like Cassel's bailing. O'Brien was the OC when Cassel filled in for Brady when he went down. He was also Crennel's QB in KC.

I don't think he's the answer, but could be a decent stop gap until the rook is ready. Clowney at 1, QB in the 2nd

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet キ 40m
#Vikings QB Matt Cassel will void his contract for 2014 and become a free agent, per source. Was to make $3.7M, had until Friday to do it

HoustonFrog
02-05-2014, 10:05 AM
Sorry, didn't read 7 pages but

Guys he worked with recently

Christian Hackenberg: Big kid. Big arm. Pocket guy

Tom Brady: Big guy. Big arm. Pocket guy

Sorry, I just think he will lean to Bridgewater or Bortles with a chance to take D and later get a guy like Mettenberger or Logan Thomas.

Playoffs
02-05-2014, 10:07 AM
Sounds like Cassel's bailing...
I guess he either doesn't like Norv or felt he wasn't going to be retained and wanted the extra month to talk to other teams....?

thunderkyss
02-05-2014, 10:11 AM
Sounds like Cassel's bailing. O'Brien was the OC when Cassel filled in for Brady when he went down. He was also Crennel's QB in KC.

I don't think he's the answer, but could be a decent stop gap until the rook is ready. Clowney at 1, QB in the 2nd

I thought Josh McDaniels was the OC/QB coach, play caller for Matt Cassel's 2008 season.

O'Brien was the WR coach in 2008. At least according to Wiki
After two seasons with Duke, O'Brien was hired by the New England Patriots on February 27, 2007 as an offensive assistant.[7] On February 21, 2008, O'Brien was promoted to wide receivers coach.[8] He became the quarterbacks coach and offensive play-caller following the 2008 season after the departure of quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. He was promoted to offensive coordinator in February 2011.
The Patriots gave the Jacksonville Jaguars permission to interview O'Brien for their head coaching vacancy during the Patriots' playoff bye week; O'Brien was scheduled for an interview, but never actually interviewed for the job.[9] Instead, O'Brien interviewed with Penn State staff on January 5, 2012,[10] was offered the head coach position, and signed a four-year contract to become the Nittany Lions' coach.[11] O'Brien continued as New England's offensive coordinator through Super Bowl XLVI.

steelbtexan
02-05-2014, 10:31 AM
You are not incorrect in terms a great defense being key to a championship, but the window in salary cap football is really short. of all the great defenses, starting with the bears, the teams only won once and too often were not real contenders. Its way harder and lasts three or fours years on the long end.

What team has repeated? In the last 10 yrs how many SB's has Manning/Brady won?

Are you saying that building the trenches 1st isn't the way to go? I believe building the trenches 1st is the only way to go if you want lasting success. Especially if there's no Luck/RG3 type QB prospect in this yrs draft.

HOU-TEX
02-05-2014, 10:33 AM
I thought Josh McDaniels was the OC/QB coach, play caller for Matt Cassel's 2008 season.

O'Brien was the WR coach in 2008. At least according to Wiki


You're right, my bad

infantrycak
02-05-2014, 11:27 AM
What team has repeated? In the last 10 yrs how many SB's has Manning/Brady won?

The Giants and Steelers. None.

buddyboy
02-05-2014, 11:34 AM
The Giants and Steelers. None.

???

Brady won in 2005 (and 2004, repeating, but that falls one year outside the "past 10 years" stipulation) and Manning won in 2007

infantrycak
02-05-2014, 11:46 AM
???

Brady won in 2005 (and 2004, repeating, but that falls one year outside the "past 10 years" stipulation) and Manning won in 2007

Brady's last SB win took place in 2005 for the 2004 season so falls outside of 10 years.

Not sure of your Eli point. I indicated he/the Giants repeated within the last 10 years - 2007 and 2011 seasons. The Steelers did as well with Big Ben - 2005 and 2008 seasons.

buddyboy
02-05-2014, 11:53 AM
Brady's last SB win took place in 2005 for the 2004 season so falls outside of 10 years.

Not sure of your Eli point. I indicated he/the Giants repeated within the last 10 years - 2007 and 2011 seasons. The Steelers did as well with Big Ben - 2005 and 2008 seasons.

Brady's last Superbowl win was 2005, but it is within the past 10 Superbowl winners. I literally counted back from the Seahawks (SB 48) to the Patriots(SB 39).

And when I said Manning, I meant Peyton, because that's what I assumed the other poster was referring to (as far as "elite QBs") and you answered "none" to the question "How many SBs has Manning/Brady won in the past 10 years".

steelbtexan
02-05-2014, 11:55 AM
Brady's last SB win took place in 2005 for the 2004 season so falls outside of 10 years.

Not sure of your Eli point. I indicated he/the Giants repeated within the last 10 years - 2007 and 2011 seasons. The Steelers did as well with Big Ben - 2005 and 2008 seasons.

Maybe I should've been more clear and said back to back. The point is there are no more dynasty's in the NFL. The best way to insure success is to build the 49er/Pats way. build the OL/DL then get your QB.

ArlingtonTexan
02-05-2014, 11:58 AM
What team has repeated? In the last 10 yrs how many SB's has Manning/Brady won?

Are you saying that building the trenches 1st isn't the way to go? I believe building the trenches 1st is the only way to go if you want lasting success. Especially if there's no Luck/RG3 type QB prospect in this yrs draft.

Well show evidence of this. Building the lines just repeated over and over . And again good luck keeping those lines together ...see 2011 texans

htownfan32
02-05-2014, 11:59 AM
Maybe I should've been more clear and said back to back. The point is there are no more dynasty's in the NFL. The best way to insure success is to build the 49er/Pats way. build the OL/DL then get your QB.

I'm sure the Pats way can't really be emulated unless you see a possible GOAT QB lying around somewhere.

As for the 49ers model... well, that can be followed.

buddyboy
02-05-2014, 12:00 PM
Maybe I should've been more clear and said back to back. The point is there are no more dynasty's in the NFL. The best way to insure success is to build the 49er/Pats way. build the OL/DL then get your QB.

It's a good concept in theory...the problem is, the trend I see in Superbowl winners (even recent SB winners, there hasn't been a huge trend shift) is that you NEED a good QB (and at least a middling to good defense). Now, if you get that QB after developing your OL/DL (and I'd argue defense), all the power to you, but it's hard to find that QB.

To risk building this OL/DL and THEN search for the QB creates the situation where you're stuck with a mediocre QB who cannot win the big game (Schaub). Then, while you're looking for that franchise QB who can, all the pieces you've put together start to fall apart (age, contracts, etc). Like you said, not much lasts in the league anymore.

I think it's easier to find that special QB and then build around him once you have him (Luck). It's a bit easier to build OL/DL around a QB than it is to fish for a QB while managing the time limit you have with a strong OL/DL/Defense.

houstonspartan
02-05-2014, 02:22 PM
Maybe I should've been more clear and said back to back. The point is there are no more dynasty's in the NFL. The best way to insure success is to build the 49er/Pats way. build the OL/DL then get your QB.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I believe the last back-to-back championship team was Gary Kubiak's Broncos. It's one reason why the guy has such an overrated reputation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Double Barrel
02-05-2014, 02:32 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I believe the last back-to-back championship team was Gary Kubiak's Broncos. It's one reason why the guy has such an overrated reputation.

Nope, the Patriots won back-to-back championships in 2003 and 2004. They won three in four years.

HJam72
02-05-2014, 07:48 PM
So the last 2 back-2-back champions had John Elway and Tom Brady.

Here's what I really think about the whole situation.:

I've said that the QB is the most important single player on the team. Others have said, and I don't disagree, that Defense wins championships; but, you can't build a Defense with one pick, just like you can't build an O-line with one pick. Seattle built their Defense with a lot of later round picks and free agent acquisitions (I'm no expert on Seattle, so I'm just speaking in general here), so it's not like they got one good player and the Defense was set. We already have JJ Watt and he's a great player, but we just went 2-14 with him.

I think you take the best QB on the board. He may not be a franchise QB, certain to become a Superbowl MVP, but he adds to our chances of winning more now....and he has trade potential in the future. He will not be paid like Peyton Manning his first four years anyway because of NFLPA negotiations. We really need to either do this or find (if even possible) a good, veteran QB now.

Yes, the Defense will be important, but we are going to need many picks and other acquisitions to build a championship Defense. I know these guys are not supposed to be sure thing, championship QBs, but the fact that they are the best in any one draft (or supposed to be) should mean something. If you get a good QB, they will likely be good for many years. Shut-down CBs, for instance, are usually not shut-down CBs for very long. I bet Seattle's Defense is mediocre again within a few years. They did win a championship with Defense, though, and I won't begrudge that from them.

thunderkyss
02-05-2014, 09:52 PM
So the last 2 back-2-back champions had John Elway and Tom Brady.

I think you take the best QB on the board. He may not be a franchise QB, certain to become a Superbowl MVP, but he adds to our chances of winning more now....and he has trade potential in the future. He will not be paid like Peyton Manning his first four years anyway because of NFLPA negotiations. We really need to either do this or find (if even possible) a good, veteran QB now.



See... with Brady's name in there I can't get behind the "take the best QB on the board" argument. To me, it's just like any other position.

We didn't take a RB in the 2009 draft because we felt (so I've been told) that equally talented players were still available after the draft. We brought in Arian Foster & Jeremiah Johnson as undrafted FAs. Both had bodies of work worthy of a first round pick, Arian proved to be NFL ready.

We drafted a LT in the third round of the 2006 draft & we all thought he could handle the job.

Just because there are those who believe Teddy Bridgewater is the best QB in this class, doe not mean that he will be the most successful, again the Tom Brady example... as well as Kaepernick, Wilson, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Cutler, McNabb. None of those guys were the first QB taken (the "best" prospect).

I'm just thinking out loud here, if we selected Jadaveon Clowney, what would happen to Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel, or Blake Bortles? Would St Louis take one of them, or Jacksonville, or Cleveland? Most every "mock" I've seen says the Rams would pass & Jacksonville would take one of them, Bortles, & Cleveland will take one, Manziel... & Oakland might take Bridgewater.

To me, that says the "experts" believe none of these guys are an upgrade over Sam Bradford, but better than Blaine Gabbert, Brandon Weedon, & Terrelle Pryor.

I don't know if I want to spend the #1 overall on a player not considered an upgrade over Sam Bradford. There are even some mocks where Jacksonville doesn't take a QB.

Playoffs
02-07-2014, 01:41 PM
Meant to put this in here as it directly addresses the topic...

Is Bridgewater a Bill O達rien QB? (http://draftbreakdown.com/is-bridgewater-an-obrien-qb/)
Ever since Bill O達rien was hired by the Texans, there痴 been constant chatter about which of the draft痴 signal callers best fits his offense. Increasingly, to the surprise of many, the talk has centered around signal callers not named Teddy Bridgewater.
billobrien

The shift away from Teddy B. is in part due to O達rien痴 history and preference for quarterbacks with prototypical builds: his two most recent high porfile quarterbacks Tom Brady and his hand-picked QB at Penn State, Christian Hackenberg both sit in the 64, 220-225 pound range. O達rien himself has made comments about how he adores bigger QBs who can sit in the pocket and make all the throws.

In fact, while heading the Penn State program, O達rien did not commonly recruit quarterbacks who were below the 63, 200-lb. threshold. With all that in mind, members of the draft media have increasingly linked the Texans to UCF signal caller Blake Bortles, who痴 also received praise from O達rien in the past.

Who ends up being that top selection remains to be seen by all accounts, the pick痴 expected to be one of the draft痴 top QBs but while it痴 quite possible Bortles will be the guy, we still believe Bridgewater does everything required of an O達rien QB.

To make the case, Aimal Arsalla and I have produced 6 cutups of three 2013 Christian Hackenberg games, as well as one of Tom Brady back in 11. And on the next couple pages, we値l isolate individual plays that show Teddy痴 quite capable of executing Bill O達rien痴 offense.
http://giant.gfycat.com/FrenchLankyKudu.gifhttp://giant.gfycat.com/WhirlwindVeneratedDove.gif

Being able to deliver intermediate throws with accuracy is critical, especially as windows get smaller in the NFL. Bridgewater regularly shows the ability to do so.

Here, we see basic play calls on both accounts but with very difficult throws. In Brady痴 situation, he has to touch-pass it over top of the two Bills defenders, while Bridgewater must rocket it into a small window to his WR. The intermediate range of the field is used in a variety of ways in O達rien痴 offense, much of which requires throws of this caliber...

See all video cutup comparisons here: http://draftbreakdown.com/is-bridgewater-an-obrien-qb/

Better quality videos at above link, as well.

thunderkyss
02-07-2014, 02:16 PM
Meant to put this in here as it directly addresses the topic...

Is Bridgewater a Bill O達rien QB? (http://draftbreakdown.com/is-bridgewater-an-obrien-qb/)

O達rien痴 history and preference for quarterbacks with prototypical builds: his two most recent high porfile quarterbacks Tom Brady and his hand-picked QB at Penn State, Christian Hackenberg both sit in the 64, 220-225 pound range. O達rien himself has made comments about how he adores bigger QBs who can sit in the pocket and make all the throws.

In fact, while heading the Penn State program, O達rien did not commonly recruit quarterbacks who were below the 63, 200-lb. threshold.

Being able to deliver intermediate throws with accuracy is critical, especially as windows get smaller in the NFL. Bridgewater regularly shows the ability to do so.



Sounds like Aj McCarron to me. Everything you can say about Bridgewater you can say about McCarron, except McCarron has the size, played for a "big time" program, against "big time" competition.

But... I don't want to sound like I'm forcing him down anyone's throat.

infantrycak
02-07-2014, 02:28 PM
Sounds like Aj McCarron to me. Everything you can say about Bridgewater you can say about McCarron, except McCarron has the size, played for a "big time" program, against "big time" competition.

But... I don't want to sound like I'm forcing him down anyone's throat.

Not with a straight face.

But to go for the winner - he's black.

thunderkyss
02-07-2014, 02:45 PM
But to go for the winner - he's black.

McCarron? See, I didn't even notice.

b0ng
02-07-2014, 03:17 PM
Sounds like Aj McCarron to me. Everything you can say about Bridgewater you can say about McCarron, except McCarron has the size, played for a "big time" program, against "big time" competition.

But... I don't want to sound like I'm forcing him down anyone's throat.

AJ McCarron cannot consistently deliver the ball accurately on intermediate routes.

Texian
02-07-2014, 05:57 PM
Nothing says a Bill O'Brien QB like 6'4" 230 lb BLAKE BORTLES as 6'4" 220 lb CHRISTIAN HACKENBERG!

drs23
02-08-2014, 12:22 PM
...But... I don't want to sound like I'm forcing him down anyone's throat.

Too late for that. :nolisten:

steelbtexan
02-08-2014, 07:09 PM
AJ McCarron cannot consistently deliver the ball accurately on intermediate routes.

Wrong

Can he do it under pressure should be the question. Nobody knows the answer to this question at this point.

It bothers me that McCarron backed out of the North/South game.

steelbtexan
02-08-2014, 07:20 PM
Too late for that. :nolisten:

LOL

CloakNNNdagger
02-09-2014, 10:58 AM
After listening to this ESPN piece hosted by Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, I came away feeling like I just left an Evangelical revival...............looking to cleanse myself from my wayward critical misguided "No, thank you!" feelings toward Manziel as the Texans' #1 pick.........QUICK, someone, PLEASE throw me a bar of soap.........PLEASE!:hankpalm:



Manziel A Good Fit in Houston? (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10407261)

Number19
02-09-2014, 05:42 PM
After listening to this ESPN piece hosted by Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, I came away feeling like I just left an Evangelical revival...............looking to cleanse myself from my wayward critical misguided "No, thank you!" feelings toward Manziel as the Texans' #1 pick.........QUICK, someone, PLEASE throw me a bar of soap.........PLEASE!:hankpalm:



Manziel A Good Fit in Houston? (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10407261)Actually, I pretty much agree with him. I'm old enough that Bobby Layne was one of my football heroes (along with Johnny U). He would show up still hung over from partying the night before the game. It was said, he never lost a game - time just ran out.

Playoffs
02-09-2014, 06:50 PM
After listening to this ESPN piece hosted by Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless......

You know better than to go into places like that, Doc. http://www.longislandsubaruclub.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley_nono.gif

ObsiWan
02-11-2014, 12:40 PM
After listening to this ESPN piece hosted by Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, I came away feeling like I just left an Evangelical revival...............looking to cleanse myself from my wayward critical misguided "No, thank you!" feelings toward Manziel as the Texans' #1 pick.........QUICK, someone, PLEASE throw me a bar of soap.........PLEASE!:hankpalm:



Manziel A Good Fit in Houston? (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10407261)

Perhaps she can help...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_UuIPCyV7WZ39YrmyFtxRV8znhc-buYOkJrW6zSqWXvOP5LZPDQ

Brisco_County
02-13-2014, 11:37 AM
After listening to this ESPN piece hosted by Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, I came away feeling like I just left an Evangelical revival...............looking to cleanse myself from my wayward critical misguided "No, thank you!" feelings toward Manziel as the Texans' #1 pick.........QUICK, someone, PLEASE throw me a bar of soap.........PLEASE!:hankpalm:



Manziel A Good Fit in Houston? (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10407261)

Everything about that clip is bothersome. The overall argument, the supporting arguments, the histrionic delivery by Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, the red herring Manziel critics, the stupid racism hypothetical, and finally ending with Bayless pondering if O'Brien gets fired before he ever coaches a game. Notice they didn't mention scouting reports or criticisms that are actually relevant.

CloakNNNdagger
02-14-2014, 08:33 AM
Lance Zerlein sits down with Greg Cosell (senior producer at NFL Films), for whom I have greater respect for than any "evaluator" out there. THIS IS A MUST-HEAR INTERVIEW (http://www.sports790.com/onair/the-proper-gentlemen-of-sports-52356/greg-cossell-talks-nfl-draft-12063734/) where he talks about the QBs in this draft / Clowney / and his thought on the Texans #1 pick.

EDIT: Sorry, just noticed.......this was posted by Playoffs in the Draft Forum! Might want to keep it here, for those that don't travel into that forum.

Brisco_County
02-14-2014, 10:21 PM
Lance Zerlein sits down with Greg Cosell (senior producer at NFL Films), for whom I have greater respect for than any "evaluator" out there. THIS IS A MUST-HEAR INTERVIEW (http://www.sports790.com/onair/the-proper-gentlemen-of-sports-52356/greg-cossell-talks-nfl-draft-12063734/) where he talks about the QBs in this draft / Clowney / and his thought on the Texans #1 pick.

Good interview, and I have to agree with the observations made about the QB's. Bridgewater has demonstrated more than the others that he can anticipate windows, which is mandatory.

They also summed up why I wouldn't be disappointed one bit if Clowney was the choice.

drs23
02-15-2014, 06:36 PM
Good interview, and I have to agree with the observations made about the QB's. Bridgewater has demonstrated more than the others that he can anticipate windows, which is mandatory.

They also summed up why I wouldn't be disappointed one bit if Clowney was the choice.

Dagnabbit, ditto. I was so much NO CLOWN for so long, that's change. Not just this interview, mind you. We HAVE TO TAKE THE BEST PLAYER, REGARDLESS!

I just hope we don't wind up with McCarron in the 8th round. :kitten:

thunderkyss
02-15-2014, 07:23 PM
I just hope we don't wind up with McCarron in the 8th round. :kitten:

:foottap:

Norg
02-15-2014, 10:40 PM
u think we will draft two QB's in the draft ...????

Grams
02-16-2014, 07:28 AM
Everything about that clip is bothersome. The overall argument, the supporting arguments, the histrionic delivery by Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, the red herring Manziel critics, the stupid racism hypothetical, and finally ending with Bayless pondering if O'Brien gets fired before he ever coaches a game. Notice they didn't mention scouting reports or criticisms that are actually relevant.

One can get more info on this forum than you can on ESPN. Almost of those guys are clueless.

DX-TEX
02-16-2014, 10:28 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgkhB02CEAAXxnL.png:large

:clap:

infantrycak
02-16-2014, 10:37 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgkhB02CEAAXxnL.png:large

:clap:

There is a Manziel thread in the draft forum where this is being discussed. Let's keep the discussion on the quote over there. Thx.

DX-TEX
02-16-2014, 10:59 AM
There is a Manziel thread in the draft forum where this is being discussed. Let's keep the discussion on the quote over there. Thx.

I just like Doritos and wondered if BOB does as well

ObsiWan
02-18-2014, 11:29 AM
Sneak peak into the Bill O'Brien QB selection process....

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/bl/2014/bl140216.jpg (http://www.mycomicspage.com/inthebleachers/2014/02/16/)


Obviously, accuracy and quick release are highly valued in this system

Playoffs
03-25-2014, 10:31 AM
http://l.yimg.com/iu/api/res/1.2/JFGWBESkcKhoQ3KaH52tHg--/YXBwaWQ9eXZpZGVvO2NoPTE3ODE7Y3I9MTtjdz0xMTU3O2R4PT E2O2R5PTE7Zmk9dWxjcm9wO2g9MTAwMDtxPTcwO3c9NjUw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_US/Sports/AP_NFL/201403250856321900386-p5.jpg

Breakfast McNuggets with O'Brien (http://espn.go.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/4702/nuggets-from-breakfast-with-obrien)

-- O'Brien, general manager Rick Smith and quarterbacks coach George Godsey will all be at Johnny Manziel's Pro Day on Thursday. This is separate from Texas A&M's Pro Day, one O'Brien called his "Johnny Day." While O'Brien likes having private workouts with quarterback prospects, when I asked if he has one with Manziel he said he doesn't think so.

-- Despite all the talk about what a bad Pro Day Teddy Bridgewater had, O'Brien thought he had "a decent day." He liked seeing the work Bridgewater had done to improve footwork and mechanics.

-- He'll meet several times with various prospects and what he's looking for from meeting to meeting is improvement. Did the guy learn something in the time between?

-- The plan right now is to take backup quarterbacks Case Keenum and T.J. Yates to training camp.

-- He values the ability to think quickly in a quarterback. O'Brien will ask for a lot of pre-snap decision-making.

-- Derek Carr's brother will have no impact on the Texans' evaluation of Derek Carr. "When we're thinking about a player, we're thinking about that individual player." The expansion Texans selected David Carr with the top overall pick of the 2002 draft and lasted five seasons before being waived.

Nick Mathews ‏@Nick_Mathews
“It’s very difficult to play a quarterback right away,” O’Brien said. “Expecting a rookie to go in and play right away against, say, a Rex Ryan defense, is very, very difficult. At the same time, you better be ready to do it because you never know what’s going to happen."

_King_
03-25-2014, 10:36 AM
I think OB is going to be on SR 610 on Texans all access with Mark Vandameer around 12 if anyone wants to listen...

Playoffs
03-25-2014, 10:39 AM
Texans O達rien: 選t痴 very difficult to play a quarterback right away (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2014/03/texans-obrien-its-very-difficult-to-play-a-quarterback-right-away/)
展e池e going to bring some of these guys to Houston to spend a day with them, O達rien said about the quarterbacks and other prospects to be the top pick. 典here are other quarterbacks in the draft.

釘eing a quarterback coach, it痴 important to note there are a lot of quarterbacks who are winners and have played well. My opinion is that I see strengths and weaknesses with every one of these guys. I don稚 see one, two or three guys who are light years ahead of the rest.

O達rien cautions about the probability of a rookie quarterback starting from Day One, no matter where he痴 drafted.

的t痴 very difficult to play a quarterback right away, O達rien said. 摘xpecting a rookie to go in and play right away against, say, a Rex Ryan (New York Jets) defense, is very, very difficult. At the same time, you better be ready to do it because you never know what痴 going to happen.

展hat we池e trying to do is to set up a very competitive roster at every position. Through the spring and into camp at every position we want a very competitive roster. Let these guys win their positions on the field. If a guy痴 got to play as a rookie, then that痴 what we値l do.

b0ng
03-25-2014, 12:05 PM
-- Despite all the talk about what a bad Pro Day Teddy Bridgewater had, O'Brien thought he had "a decent day." He liked seeing the work Bridgewater had done to improve footwork and mechanics.

-- He values the ability to think quickly in a quarterback. O'Brien will ask for a lot of pre-snap decision-making.


To me, this just tells me that O'Brien likes Bridgewater (this is all constituting that I think O'Brien is telling the truth, which shouldn't be assumed during this part of the draft process).

Playoffs
03-25-2014, 01:25 PM
SI: The can't-miss-QB in this year's draft? Bill O'Brien doesn't see one (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20140325/bill-o-brien-houston-texans-2014-nfl-draft/#ixzz2x02rgVgE)
"I don't think it'll come to me in a dream,'' quipped O'Brien, holding court at the AFC head coaches media breakfast on Day 3 of the league's annual meeting. "It might come to me in a nightmare. ... I don't think it's an easy decision. But we'll make a good pick.''

Houston has 11 picks (thanks to three compensatory selections awarded Monday) and a lot of options in this draft, and there's little time to waste in preparing for the haul that O'Brien hopes is on the way...

"I do think it's a deep draft and it has a lot to do with all those young guys coming out, all those juniors,'' O'Brien said. "We have 11 picks, and you can really set your team up for the future by doing your due diligence in this draft. Which is what we're doing. We're working on it, and I think we're going to have a really good draft.
...
Though everyone wants to talk quarterback with O'Brien, the former Patriots offensive coordinator and Penn State head coach, that may not necessarily be where Houston starts its selection process. The more I listen to O'Brien, the more I'm starting to believe passing on a QB at No. 1 overall is truly in play for the Texans. I'm not predicting someone other than a quarterback is the end result, but it's a possibility. O'Brien consistently reminds anyone who asks about the quarterbacks in this year's draft that there are more than just the three consensus top-rated passers to choose from, those being Manziel, Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater and Central Florida's Blake Bortles.
...
"It's important to note there's a lot of quarterbacks that are winners, that have played well [in this draft],'' O'Brien said, toward the beginning of his hour-plus session with reporters at the Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grand Lakes. "You've got A.J. McCarron and [Zach] Mettenberger and Garoppolo. [Pitt's Tom] Savage, we were at his pro day. You can go right down the line. There are a lot of guys who can play quarterback.

"I don't [see a lot of separation among the quarterbacks]. I see strengths and weaknesses with every one of these guys, and I don't see where there's two or three guys that are just light years ahead of the rest of these guys. McCarron and Mettenberg, those guys played in the SEC. So did Johnny. That's a tough conference. They won a lot of games in the SEC, so they must have been doing something right. It's a very intriguing position [in this year's draft class].''
...
"No question,'' said O'Brien, when I asked him if Wilson's and Kaepernick's success was a reminder that quarterback-needy teams do not have to invest at a first-round level. "Obviously we're not ready to sit down as a staff and say what we're going to do, but the more I study these guys, I see a lot of guys with experience and production in college. There are a lot of quarterbacks I've watched that are decent players.''
...
"I think it's very, very difficult for a guy to play quarterback as a rookie, right away,'' he said. "To expect a guy to go in there and play right away against a Rex Ryan defense is very, very difficult. But at the same time, you better be ready to do it, because you never know what might happen. If it ends up being a guy's got to play as a rookie, then that's what he's got to do.''
...
O'Brien said he was "sure we'll have something in mind maybe a week or two in advance'' of the draft, but the process of arriving at a selection at No. 1 will "be a while.''
...
"With all due respect to the fans of Houston ... if we start asking the fans about who we should draft, I'll be sitting next to you at the next game,'' O'Brien said to a reporter.
...
• On the first thing he looks for in a quarterback?
"To me it's really two things. The guy has to be able to throw the ball accurately and a guy has to have intelligence. He has to have a quick mind. He's got to be able to process things in two or three seconds.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20140325/bill-o-brien-houston-texans-2014-nfl-draft/

ArlingtonTexan
03-25-2014, 04:23 PM
I think he likes accuracy and intelligence.

DocBar
03-25-2014, 06:25 PM
I think he likes accuracy and intelligence.I think he has a major mancrush on Brady. Just sayin....:kitten:

Texanmike02
03-25-2014, 07:34 PM
Bill O'Brien has been interviewed about many football-related topics, but he frequently comes back to quarterbacking no matter what the original question was. (See Texans home page.) This suggests the Texans are pretty well fixed on drafting a QB first. If they think the guy they most want is going to be available for a while, they're liable to trade down, but we can expect them to take a QB in the 1st round.

I think it is a smoke screen. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fitzpatrick starting for us next year with a qb picked in the 3rd or 4th round to develop. I would be surprised if we keep the first pick and don't trade down. I think we are going to wind up with a lot of short crossing routes and 3+ wideout sets with a need for a qb that can get the ball out quickly.


Trade back and take Barr or Malik. Pick up a second, 3rd and a 2nd and 3rd next year and you can build a team in 2 years. If you add a pass rushing olb a solid NT and cush stays healthy then you need a 3rd CB and this defense is set. Adding a 2nd and 3rd this year would let you make that happen. Then pick up a qb later in the draft.

I think there is a reason we picked up fitzpatrick.

Mike

thunderkyss
03-25-2014, 07:57 PM
I think it is a smoke screen. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fitzpatrick starting for us next year with a qb picked in the 3rd or 4th round to develop. I would be surprised if we keep the first pick and don't trade down. I think we are going to wind up with a lot of short crossing routes and 3+ wideout sets with a need for a qb that can get the ball out quickly.

Mike

I'm thinking basically the same thing. Sounds like he's more into developing a QB than drafting one with a pick that can produce a starter. If we get starters with our 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks, sounds like he'll be fine "developing" a QB like Savage or Murray in the 4th or later.

That's not to say if there was a Peyton Manning or Phillip Rivers in this draft he would pass on them, but this is a deep draft at many positions & we've got the 1st pick in every round & then some.

Having said all that, he seems to value winning & production in the major conferences, overcoming diversity, and of course intelligence. I don't get the feeling that he believes any one of these QBs are better than the other, only different.

infantrycak
03-25-2014, 08:04 PM
I'm thinking basically the same thing. Sounds like he's more into developing a QB than drafting one with a pick that can produce a starter. If we get starters with our 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks, sounds like he'll be fine "developing" a QB like Savage or Murray in the 4th or later.

There isn't a single starting QB in the league drafted after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd) the teams drafted to be their future starter.

CloakNNNdagger
03-25-2014, 08:35 PM
Accuracy Rankings of QBs in 2013 by PFF (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/12/signature-stats-accuracy-percentage-breakdown/)

Some interesting and telling stats.

CloakNNNdagger
03-25-2014, 08:37 PM
I think it is a smoke screen. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fitzpatrick starting for us next year with a qb picked in the 3rd or 4th round to develop. I would be surprised if we keep the first pick and don't trade down. I think we are going to wind up with a lot of short crossing routes and 3+ wideout sets with a need for a qb that can get the ball out quickly.


Trade back and take Barr or Malik. Pick up a second, 3rd and a 2nd and 3rd next year and you can build a team in 2 years. If you add a pass rushing olb a solid NT and cush stays healthy then you need a 3rd CB and this defense is set. Adding a 2nd and 3rd this year would let you make that happen. Then pick up a qb later in the draft.

I think there is a reason we picked up fitzpatrick.

Mike

We certainly aren't going to expect him to get much of anywhere throwing long.

Found these 2012 stats:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/627/729/fitzdeeppassing_original.png?1354039233

and the article (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1423514-buffalo-bills-moving-on-from-ryan-fitzpatrick-is-a-must) with screen shots that goes with it re. his mechanics.

thunderkyss
03-25-2014, 08:40 PM
There isn't a single starting QB in the league drafted after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd) the teams drafted to be their future starter.

Interesting.

Texanmike02
03-25-2014, 10:20 PM
We certainly aren't going to expect him to get much of anywhere throwing long.

Found these 2012 stats:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/627/729/fitzdeeppassing_original.png?1354039233

and the article (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1423514-buffalo-bills-moving-on-from-ryan-fitzpatrick-is-a-must) with screen shots that goes with it re. his mechanics.

FWIW I couldn't find Tom Brady's actual stats but I found the top 10 for each of the last 4 years. Tom brady was not a top 10 in either accuracy or % of attempts over 20 yards.

IMHO that's why we picked up fitzpatrick. I could easily see OB believing that he can work with him (at least this year, maybe longer). If you look at Brady he throws a lot of short routes with receivers crossing.

Mike

TEXANRED
03-25-2014, 10:25 PM
I predict, Clowney with 1.1, trade back into the 1st round and Mccarron is the guy.

infantrycak
03-25-2014, 11:03 PM
I predict, Clowney with 1.1, trade back into the 1st round and Mccarron is the guy.

What makes you think McCarron is going to sniff the 1st round?

General fyi - we have a draft forum where there are extensive discussions about all sorts of prospects.

TEXANRED
03-25-2014, 11:12 PM
What makes you think McCarron is going to sniff the 1st round?

General fyi - we have a draft forum where there are extensive discussions about all sorts of prospects.

And? You don't think this thread qualifies as a draft prospect type of thread? Are you not also engaging in draft talk?

There isn't a single starting QB in the league drafted after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd) the teams drafted to be their future starter.

infantrycak
03-25-2014, 11:18 PM
And? You don't think this thread qualifies as a draft prospect type of thread? Are you not also engaging in draft talk?

Don't get your knickers twisted. We are clearly allowing some draft talk in this thread and also have recommended the draft forum when it starts to get more involved.

I pointed you to the draft forum because you would find McCarron is generally predicted to be available in the 3rd or later. A few people think he may go in the 2nd. Nobody thinks the Texans would need to move up into the 1st to get him.

ObsiWan
03-26-2014, 12:13 AM
There isn't a single starting QB in the league drafted after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd) the teams drafted to be their future starter.
Kaepernick.
Or do you think that Harbaugh was perfectly happy with Alex Smith and spent a #3 on Colin K. just for the heck of it?

Double Barrel
03-26-2014, 12:21 AM
I think he has a major mancrush on Brady. Just sayin....:kitten:

Who doesn't? :lion: :shades: lol!

There isn't a single starting QB in the league drafted after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd) the teams drafted to be their future starter.

Great point. I think the majority of current starting QBs are first round picks, iirc. The notable ones drafted later that come to mind - Brady, Wilson, Kaepernick - were not picked to be starters.

Choosing a QB in a later round with the ambition that he's your future just seems like too much of a gamble. They've got pick of the litter right now, just gotta' figure out which one.

Double Barrel
03-26-2014, 12:25 AM
Kaepernick.
Or do you think that Harbaugh was perfectly happy with Alex Smith and spent a #3 on Colin K. just for the heck of it?

You're probably right about that. After reading your post, I did a quick search and easily found this:

Dad: Jim Harbaugh thought Colin Kaepernick was best player in 2011 draft (http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/02/01/colin-kaepernick-2011-draft-jim-harbaugh-jack-coaches-show/1885181/)

The San Francisco 49ers traded up nine spots to draft quarterback Colin Kaepernick 36th overall the fourth pick of the second round in the 2011 draft.

Apparently coach Jim Harbaugh already thought the team was getting great value and couldn't wait any longer. Harbaugh's father, Jack, shared the following anecdote Friday night on NFL Network's The Coaches Show.

infantrycak
03-26-2014, 12:45 AM
Kaepernick.
Or do you think that Harbaugh was perfectly happy with Alex Smith and spent a #3 on Colin K. just for the heck of it?

Not sure what Kaep has to do with my quote. I said drafted "after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd)." Kaep was drafted in the 2nd. He doesn't fall into after the 3rd or 2nd.

Trap_Star
03-26-2014, 01:00 AM
You're probably right about that. After reading your post, I did a quick search and easily found this:

i hate when stuff like that comes out. it reeks him being full of shit...if he really thought kaep was the best player in the entire draft, especially being a QB, he'd of taken him in the 1st round and not in the 2nd. :gun:

Texanmike02
03-26-2014, 01:04 AM
i hate when stuff like that comes out. it reeks him being full of shit...if he really thought kaep was the best player in the entire draft, especially being a QB, he'd of taken him in the 1st round and not in the 2nd. :gun:

Not if he thought he could get him in the second round.

Mike

Texanmike02
03-26-2014, 01:07 AM
When was Foles drafted? Not sure if the Iggles planned on starting him but I don't think they thought that Vick was a longtime solution.

Mike

Trap_Star
03-26-2014, 01:16 AM
Not if he thought he could get him in the second round.

Mike

if the #1 player, who happens to be a QB, on your board falls to you at 7 and you pass on him cause you're pretty sure he's going to be there in the 2nd round...then either you're lying or you're stupid but got lucky.

let's not forget, they were on the market for a young QB at the time. this was before Alex Smith's "resurrection".

infantrycak
03-26-2014, 01:21 AM
i hate when stuff like that comes out. it reeks him being full of shit...if he really thought kaep was the best player in the entire draft, especially being a QB, he'd of taken him in the 1st round and not in the 2nd. :gun:

Not if he thought he could get him in the second round.


Not if they didn't feel they needed a QB and thought whoever they drafted in the 1st would help the team more even though not BPA. Then when he fell lower than they expected they decided to go ahead and get him. Aldon Smith who had 14 sacks as a rookie and 19.5 in his 2nd year was their pick in the 1st.

When was Foles drafted? Not sure if the Iggles planned on starting him but I don't think they thought that Vick was a longtime solution.


Foles was brought in to replace VY as Vick's backup. Vick was one year into a 5 year $80 mil contract.

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2014, 01:44 AM
if the #1 player, who happens to be a QB, on your board falls to you at 7 and you pass on him cause you're pretty sure he's going to be there in the 2nd round...then either you're lying or you're stupid but got lucky.

let's not forget, they were on the market for a young QB at the time. this was before Alex Smith's "resurrection".

You're making the assumption that the #1 player on your board is the QB.

What if the #33 player on your board is the QB and you think he can be a QB who could develop into a franchise QB? What if the #25 player on your board is the first QB you have on your board and then you have about 7 or 8 bunched up pretty tight within about 20 picks or so?

If the #1 player you have on your board is a QB and you need a QB, then you take the QB. You only trade back if the #1 player on your board is not necessarily at a position that you need OR you judge that you need more picks. Otherwise, you take the guy at the top of your board whether he's a QB or not.

BUT! You have to remember the way that teams construct their boards aren't like the way that "draft experts" construct their boards. When a team is drafting BPA, it's a totally different thing than when someone outside the team is calculating which player is BPA.

ObsiWan
03-26-2014, 02:25 AM
Not sure what Kaep has to do with my quote. I said drafted "after the 3rd round (arguably 2nd)." Kaep was drafted in the 2nd. He doesn't fall into after the 3rd or 2nd.
Aaaah....fair enough.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is. Being drafted in the first round means, you're tied to that guy for an extended period even if he's unsuccessful. OTOH, not being drafted in the first round doesn't exclude you from winning the starter's job if, as O'Brien claims and Pete Carroll has shown, your head coach has a truly unbiased open competition.

So if O'Brien truly doesn't see a whit's worth of difference between the "top three" and everyone else and he may well decide to go BPA in rounds one, two, and maybe three and then snag A.J. McCarron or a Murray (just to pick a couple of names) in the fourth. But, unless he was lying through his teeth about the open competition thing, that doesn't eliminate McCarron/Murray from competing, and maybe winning, the starter job.

I guessing (totally guessing) that you want to see O'Brien pick a QB at 1-1 so you know he's committed to him and we're not going into the season with Fitzy or T.J. or Case as our starter. Or if one of those guys does start in 2014 he'll be supplanted by our new guy in 2015.

thunderkyss
03-26-2014, 06:13 AM
Aaaah....fair enough.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is.

His point is no one drafted a 4th rounder or later with a "realistic" expectation of that guy being the franchise QB.... or even starter.

& he's right, unless you believe Sean Peyton believed in Romo way back when.

Still... why spend a first on Stafford, when you can get a Romo undrafted? Or a Schaub in the third, or a Foles in the third, or a Cousins, or even a 7th rounder like Fitzpatrick who's been in the league going on 10 seasons... or Matt Cassel?

If you see a Brady, or a Manning, or a Brees, or a special QB that falls to you in the first round, yeah... you can't pass him up, if you believe that's who he is. But for someone who'll most likely be that second tier guy? You can find better value.

I also don't believe the round makes the man. QBs drafted in the first are more likely to succeed, I believe, not because they have more talent (New England thought they got the best QB in the draft with a 3rd round pick in 2011). But because the intention is to do as much as they can to make him successful.

If you draft a guy in the third round, or trade for him, or sign him through FA, & do everything you can to make him successful, he'll have a better chance at being successful.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
03-26-2014, 09:19 AM
When was Foles drafted? Not sure if the Iggles planned on starting him but I don't think they thought that Vick was a longtime solution.



Mike


Foles was 3rd rd 88 overall


Your man... Pots and pans

infantrycak
03-26-2014, 09:31 AM
Aaaah....fair enough.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is. Being drafted in the first round means, you're tied to that guy for an extended period even if he's unsuccessful. OTOH, not being drafted in the first round doesn't exclude you from winning the starter's job if, as O'Brien claims and Pete Carroll has shown, your head coach has a truly unbiased open competition.

My point was about draft strategy by teams. The proposal I was responding to was now in an hour of desperation at QB to wait until the 4th round or later. I am not saying force the need and pick one higher. I am saying no team sets out to solve their QB problem in that fashion. Successes from that low come from exceeded expectations by guys picked as backups with potential, not by design.

So if O'Brien truly doesn't see a whit's worth of difference between the "top three" and everyone else and he may well decide to go BPA in rounds one, two, and maybe three and then snag A.J. McCarron or a Murray (just to pick a couple of names) in the fourth. But, unless he was lying through his teeth about the open competition thing, that doesn't eliminate McCarron/Murray from competing, and maybe winning, the starter job.

Not saying they should be eliminated from competition and hopefully they exceed their draft expectation and turn into the next great surprise. Just saying that is not a plan for solving the future of the QB position followed by NFL teams.

I guessing (totally guessing) that you want to see O'Brien pick a QB at 1-1 so you know he's committed to him and we're not going into the season with Fitzy or T.J. or Case as our starter. Or if one of those guys does start in 2014 he'll be supplanted by our new guy in 2015.

Nope. I want OB to have a plan for a new starter no later than the beginning of 2015. I don't care who, when or how particularly although I have opinions about individuals. If there is a surprise along the way, great. But as with the discussion with beerlover on taking two QBs late in his mock I think that is close to wasting picks which would better be spent on upgrading other positions/depth rather than a viable plan for finding a future starting QB.

thunderkyss
03-26-2014, 09:35 AM
If you see a Brady, or a Manning, or a Brees, or a special QB that falls to you in the first round, yeah... you can't pass him up, if you believe that's who he is. But for someone who'll most likely be that second tier guy? You can find better value.


Keep in mind, we passed on Aaron Rodgers for Travis Johnson. We basically traded Joe Flacco away for Duane Brown. We passed on Colin Kaepernick for Jj Watt.

So you don't have to have the #1 overall pick to get a franchise QB. We need to get better at evaluating the QBs we have & the ones available to us in the draft (or FA).

infantrycak
03-26-2014, 09:41 AM
Keep in mind, we passed on Aaron Rodgers for Travis Johnson. We basically traded Joe Flacco away for Duane Brown. We passed on Colin Kaepernick for Jj Watt.

So you don't have to have the #1 overall pick to get a franchise QB. We need to get better at evaluating the QBs we have & the ones available to us in the draft (or FA).

The only one of those I would put in the mistake column is Rodgers and that was the prior, prior regime.

thunderkyss
03-26-2014, 09:54 AM
The only one of those I would put in the mistake column is Rodgers and that was the prior, prior regime.

Agreed. But some people like Flacco & Kaepernick so I included their names.

Aaron Rodgers, I don't think anyone knew he would be this good. Good, yes. Quickly forget the gunslinging, HoF, living legend good... no idea. Of course Bret's texting proclivities might have helped many want to forget.

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2014, 10:02 AM
... Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock 16h

Bill O'Brien mentions looking for a QB prospect that has a "quick mind". Has to be able to process things in 2-3 seconds.

ObsiWan
03-26-2014, 10:07 AM
I think O'Brien is doing this the way it should be done. He's "kicking the tires" on every prospect he can to see who fits what he wants to do with this offense.

Size, scrambling ability, pure arm strength, and all those other Oooh, Aaaah things are not as high on his list as football smarts, passing accuracy, and work ethic.

Just maybe he thinks he's got as good a guy on this roster as there is in this draft. And that guy is already used to NFL speed. That guy has already seen NFL coverages. And by "good" I mean NFL ready.

Perhaps this year may just be between "Fitzy" (anyone else notice that O'Brien gave him a nickname already), Keenum, and Yates. The new boy - no matter what round he's picked - might just have to watch this season. ...unless he's a real quick study.

Double Barrel
03-26-2014, 10:14 AM
i hate when stuff like that comes out. it reeks him being full of shit...if he really thought kaep was the best player in the entire draft, especially being a QB, he'd of taken him in the 1st round and not in the 2nd. :gun:

I understand the perspective. The only thing I'd speculate is that the current power struggle between Harbaugh and front office has been on-going for years. Harbaugh could have had Kap rated high, but he's not the only one making decisions. The fact that his QB ended up being good most likely empowered him, and along with three straight NFC championship games and a SB appearance, he's probably exerting his power as HC more than ever. The result is recent stories leaked about trouble in San Fran's front office.

So if O'Brien truly doesn't see a whit's worth of difference between the "top three" and everyone else and he may well decide to go BPA in rounds one, two, and maybe three and then snag A.J. McCarron or a Murray (just to pick a couple of names) in the fourth. But, unless he was lying through his teeth about the open competition thing, that doesn't eliminate McCarron/Murray from competing, and maybe winning, the starter job.

We don't know O'Brien well enough as a HC, so I can only surmise that a lot of this talk is jedi mind tricks that he learned from Belichick. Maybe he really sees very little separation between all these QBs, but I have a hard time believing that the top 3 are not far from someone drafted in the 3rd or 4th round.

I honestly think O'Brien is keeping his cards very close to his chest in order to keep everyone guessing, especially other teams. If a team values a player high enough, they will make an offer for the pick. I think we need to be a little wary and skeptical about everything being said, because I do not believe for a second that it's all pure truth with regards to their thoughts on players.

IDEXAN
03-26-2014, 10:48 AM
Gotta hand it to OB with his comments in the last day because he's been downright garrulous while being entertaining and even informative but not rambling. Did we find out what's he gonna do with the 1.1 ? Of course not, but he's given some real insight into the thinking process he and his staff have gone thru to include the pros and cons of some of the prospects.

ObsiWan
03-26-2014, 11:33 AM
We don't know O'Brien well enough as a HC, so I can only surmise that a lot of this talk is jedi mind tricks that he learned from Belichick. Maybe he really sees very little separation between all these QBs, but I have a hard time believing that the top 3 are not far from someone drafted in the 3rd or 4th round.

I honestly think O'Brien is keeping his cards very close to his chest in order to keep everyone guessing, especially other teams. If a team values a player high enough, they will make an offer for the pick. I think we need to be a little wary and skeptical about everything being said, because I do not believe for a second that it's all pure truth with regards to their thoughts on players.

oh snap... next you'll be trying to convince me there is no Santa Claus.
:pissed:

sandman
03-26-2014, 11:39 AM
Makes me wondering if he IS doing the Jedi mind tricks by talking so much about some of these guys when he was silent for so long about the team in general. Get a few teams lined up behind him in the draft scared that they are going to get their guy because OB is talking about him, and they pull the trigger on giving away the farm to get the 1.1 pick. Not saying it's happening, but if I were to have a tendency to wear tinfoil hats, I could convince myself of it.

thunderkyss
03-26-2014, 11:47 AM
Just maybe he thinks he's got as good a guy on this roster as there is in this draft. And that guy is already used to NFL speed. That guy has already seen NFL coverages. And by "good" I mean NFL ready.


I thought that was a possibility until they signed Fitzpatrick. I'd have signed Brady Quin or someone like that if I thought I had the guy on my roster, if I were going to sign anyone at all.

The money spent on Fitzpatrick could have been spent on a player to help us win games instead of a benchwarmer.

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2014, 11:51 AM
I think O'Brien is doing this the way it should be done. He's "kicking the tires" on every prospect he can to see who fits what he wants to do with this offense.

Size, scrambling ability, pure arm strength, and all those other Oooh, Aaaah things are not as high on his list as football smarts, passing accuracy, and work ethic.

Just maybe he thinks he's got as good a guy on this roster as there is in this draft. And that guy is already used to NFL speed. That guy has already seen NFL coverages. And by "good" I mean NFL ready.

Perhaps this year may just be between "Fitzy" (anyone else notice that O'Brien gave him a nickname already), Keenum, and Yates. The new boy - no matter what round he's picked - might just have to watch this season. ...unless he's a real quick study.

This is where I'm putting my bets.

Double Barrel
03-26-2014, 12:17 PM
oh snap... next you'll be trying to convince me there is no Santa Claus.
:pissed:

Oh, there's a Santa Claus, no doubt about it. http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/images/msn/special-events/santa_mooning.gif

However, I hate to break to you, but the elves are really underpaid and overworked Chinese labor.

ObsiWan
03-26-2014, 03:06 PM
Oh, there's a Santa Claus, no doubt about it. http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/images/msn/special-events/santa_mooning.gif

However, I hate to break to you, but the elves are really underpaid and overworked Chinese labor.
:brando:
I can't heeeear you.

Playoffs
03-27-2014, 02:01 PM
So what was put on display today for Bill O'Brien and the Texans was not a preview of Johnny Manziel's football potential...

What was previewed was the media storm that will envelop your team if you tab Manziel as your quarterback. Obviously not intended to take the forefront, but every team present just got a firsthand feel for what comes with Johnny Football.

Some organizations need it. Will OB sign up for that? :hmmm:

honored82
03-27-2014, 02:16 PM
He is the next Tim Tebow. Some team should sign both of them.

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2014, 03:29 PM
So what was put on display today for Bill O'Brien and the Texans was not a preview of Johnny Manziel's football potential...

What was previewed was the media storm that will envelop your team if you tab Manziel as your quarterback. Obviously not intended to take the forefront, but every team present just got a firsthand feel for what comes with Johnny Football.

Some organizations need it. Will OB sign up for that? :hmmm:

NO! OB will not want to deal with Monday Morning Manziel Madness........that lasts game-to-game throughout every week. If Manziel doesn't get totally killed by the D, surely OB will finish off the job.:kitten:

thunderkyss
03-27-2014, 05:04 PM
What was previewed was the media storm that will envelop your team if you tab Manziel as your quarterback. Obviously not intended to take the forefront, but every team present just got a firsthand feel for what comes with Johnny Football.


I doubt it. From what they said on the radio, ESPN did the same thing for Andrew Luck & Ryan Tannehill. So this is nothing to be scared of.

As a matter of fact, it's something this team needs. Someone who can deliver when the lights are on. Sure, we do fine in our 12 noon (central time) time slot, & we're not bad on Thursday night... but prime time on Sunday, or Monday... yeah we can use a QB who thinks he belongs on that stage.

We're going to have to grow up sooner or later & for an NFL franchise, that means extra media attention, being a media darling.

Norg
03-27-2014, 05:42 PM
man so many decesions OB and RIck must make I wonder what they will do go with one of the 3 QB's or get the Star Pass rusher or trade out of #1


...????

htownfan32
03-27-2014, 07:38 PM
Manziel delivers with the lights on him. He might not have the best mechanics of anyone in this draft, but I will bet that he's the most competitive of all of them. Some guys just thrive under pressure.

This team lacks that culture. That ability to thrive under pressure. It wasn't here with Gary.

PapaL
03-27-2014, 07:52 PM
Manziel delivers with the lights on him. He might not have the best mechanics of anyone in this draft, but I will bet that he's the most competitive of all of them. Some guys just thrive under pressure.

This team lacks that culture. That ability to thrive under pressure. It wasn't here with Gary.

People said that about Vince Young. How'd that work out?

DocBar
03-27-2014, 08:13 PM
People said that about Vince Young. How'd that work out?You mean the Texans should sign VY to mentor Johnny Fooseball?? What an idea!!

Marshall
03-27-2014, 08:22 PM
I predict, Clowney with 1.1, trade back into the 1st round and Mccarron is the guy.

No need to trade back into the first for McCarron. He'll be there at the top of the 2nd and probably the 3rd. He lasted till the 4th in the mock so waiting would be much more prudent.

1.1 Clowney

Then set up a contingent trade with Atlanta. If Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel are there, trade him for their entire 2014 draft and their 1st in 2015.

6 1600
37 530
68 250
103 88
139 36.5 Oops. Can't trade this one. Trade the 2015 3rd instead 62.
147 32.6
182 18.6
220 3.4
253 or these
255 or these
total 2559 plus 420 for 2015 1st.

Then surprise them all by taking Matthews with 1-6 and taking McCarron in the fourth.

New Texans draft:
1-6
2-33
2-37
3-65
3-68
4-101
4-103
4-135
5-141
5-147
6-177
6-181
6-182
6-211
7-216
7-220
7-256
Atlanta 2015 1st
Atlanta 2015 3rd

drs23
03-27-2014, 08:25 PM
No need to trade back into the first for McCarron. He'll be there at the top of the 2nd and probably the 3rd. He lasted till the 4th in the mock so waiting would be much more prudent.

1.1 Clowney

Then set up a contingent trade with Atlanta. If Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel are there, trade him for their entire 2014 draft and their 1st in 2015.

6 1600
37 530
68 250
103 88
139 36.5
147 32.6
182 18.6
220 3.4
253
255
total 2559 plus 420 for 2015 1st.

Then surprise them all by taking Matthews with 1-6 and taking McCarron in the fourth.

Really? Don't bogart, ppp. Capice?

htownfan32
03-27-2014, 08:28 PM
People said that about Vince Young. How'd that work out?

If Manziel has a better work ethic than Vince Young, it shouldn't matter.

Marshall
03-27-2014, 08:58 PM
Really? Don't bogart, ppp. Capice?

Uh! No? I've heard the reference, but the definition eludes me. Something to do with Humphrey Bogart I suppose. Capice - understand in Italian I think.

But the trade is right in line with others. ~3000 for ~3000 in trade point value and Atlanta is apparently drooling over Clowney.

IDEXAN
03-27-2014, 09:21 PM
No need to trade back into the first for McCarron. He'll be there at the top of the 2nd and probably the 3rd. He lasted till the 4th in the mock so waiting would be much more prudent.

1.1 Clowney

Then set up a contingent trade with Atlanta. If Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel are there, trade him for their entire 2014 draft and their 1st in 2015.

6 1600
37 530
68 250
103 88
139 36.5 Oops. Can't trade this one. Trade the 2015 3rd instead 62.
147 32.6
182 18.6
220 3.4
253 or these
255 or these
total 2559 plus 420 for 2015 1st.

Then surprise them all by taking Matthews with 1-6 and taking McCarron in the fourth.

New Texans draft:
1-6
2-33
2-37
3-65
3-68
4-101
4-103
4-135
5-141
5-147
6-177
6-181
6-182
6-211
7-216
7-220
7-256
Atlanta 2015 1st
Atlanta 2015 3rd
Forget about the "Draft Value Chart" because it means nothing this year.

Marshall
03-27-2014, 09:28 PM
Forget about the "Draft Value Chart" because it means nothing this year.
It always means nothing until a trade goes down. I agree it is useless in determining the value of career play, but it does a fair job of estimating Potential value used in trades.

But say it's gone. How much would you expect in a trade for this years number one?

DocBar
03-27-2014, 10:04 PM
I had no idea that draft day trades and all were what OB is looking for in a QB. For some strange reason I thought it was a Tom Brady clone. Gotta love the off season!!! NOT!!!!!! :D

thunderkyss
03-27-2014, 10:11 PM
I had no idea that draft day trades and all were what OB is looking for in a QB. For some strange reason I thought it was a Tom Brady clone. Gotta love the off season!!! NOT!!!!!! :D

The Pats are always wheeling & dealing & stocking up future draft picks. I'm expecting to see a bit of that here in Houston.

Texan_Bill
03-27-2014, 10:40 PM
The Pats are always wheeling & dealing & stocking up future draft picks. I'm expecting to see a bit of that here in Houston.

I totally agree. They have been notorious for trading back and stockpiling picks. That said, Manziel's performance was impressive enough to actually re-consider him as the first pick.

Texan_Bill
03-27-2014, 10:51 PM
I do know this........... Coach O'Brien is under a tremendous amount of stress.

He knows he needs a QB and there are plenty out there, but does he want the smaller guy that appears to be the full package (who as an aside performed well - with pads) or does he want the big 6'-5" guy (i.e. Blake Bortles)....

Unfortunately, given his track record, whether a piece of the Pats organization or as HC of Penn State, he's looking for a Blake Bortles kind of guy.... The 6'-5" guy...

Texan_Bill
03-27-2014, 10:53 PM
As an aside, Matt Schaub was listed at 6'-5", 230......... Just sayin'!

Mr.Scarface
03-27-2014, 11:39 PM
I do know this........... Coach O'Brien is under a tremendous amount of stress.

He knows he needs a QB and there are plenty out there, but does he want the smaller guy that appears to be the full package (who as an aside performed well - with pads) or does he want the big 6'-5" guy (i.e. Blake Bortles)....

Unfortunately, given his track record, whether a piece of the Pats organization or as HC of Penn State, he's looking for a Blake Bortles kind of guy.... The 6'-5" guy...

Manziel's arm is better than Bortles

ArlingtonTexan
03-28-2014, 12:07 AM
Really? Don't bogart, ppp. Capice?

there has not been a trade out the number 1 draft position in ten years. the last time a team traded an entire draft for any pick was the Ricky Williams saints stuff. A trade like this one is the a combined wet dream for the entire Texans fans base and organization.

Actually, with the Texans already having 11 picks, getting an "entire" draft is not functionally practical w/o lots of trade back ups and move picks into 2015.

thunderkyss
03-28-2014, 07:02 AM
I totally agree. They have been notorious for trading back and stockpiling picks. That said, Manziel's performance was impressive enough to actually re-consider him as the first pick.

I don't mean to say I believe we'll trade our #1 pick. We've got 11 for this year. While they don't carry as much value as the #1, 2.1 & 3.1 look really good in this draft with all the underclassmen coming out.

thunderkyss
03-28-2014, 07:18 AM
I do know this........... Coach O'Brien is under a tremendous amount of stress.

He knows he needs a QB and there are plenty out there, but does he want the smaller guy that appears to be the full package (who as an aside performed well - with pads) or does he want the big 6'-5" guy (i.e. Blake Bortles)....

Unfortunately, given his track record, whether a piece of the Pats organization or as HC of Penn State, he's looking for a Blake Bortles kind of guy.... The 6'-5" guy...

As an aside, Matt Schaub was listed at 6'-5", 230......... Just sayin'!

If he has two guys who were exactly the same in every way but height, I'm sure he'll pick the taller of the two... one less thing he has to deal with (unless one guy is freakishly large like 6'8" or 6'10" then height is a negative).


[senseless rant]
But they aren't all the same. Most everyone says Bridgewater has the highest football IQ of this bunch & he might.... but Manziel is no dummy & he's got other intangibles that Bridgewater doesn't come close to (imho).

The spotlight's been on Manziel since he was named a Heisman candidate as a Freshman. It's only gotten brighter & he's shined even brighter every step of the way (by most accounts). After winning the Heisman & all the attention he got over the summer, 2013 was supposed to be a test of his ability to perform up to higher expectations despite the distractions, I think he passed with flying colors.

Can Bridgewater do the same? Has he? I don't know that he can, I have no idea how he'll perform against the best of the best. Right now, he looks like Case Keenum in the preseason (if I can use that analogy), where nothing he's done to date has any bearing on how he'll perform in the NFL. That's just me & I know "y'all" don't agree.

Flacco came from a small conference, Ben came from a small conference, Cullpepper... yaddah, yaddah, yaddah.... they were all prototypical size & had laser guided rocket arms. I just don't see Bridgewater at 1-1 because he can read a junior college (or damn near) defense.

& then his pro day... little lights & he bombs. Johnny Day was a national event (hyperbole) an ex-POTUS was in attendance, the Gov of Texas was in attendance & he's playing booty shak'n music... Johnny doesn't blink an eye. It's like he was born for this.

I don't want the Texans to draft a QB with 1.1, I'll get behind any QB they do draft, but of the main three everyone talks about I can understand Manziel, I can understand (don't agree with) Bortles, I don't understand Bridgewater.

[/senseless rant]

Texanmike02
03-28-2014, 08:54 AM
if the #1 player, who happens to be a QB, on your board falls to you at 7 and you pass on him cause you're pretty sure he's going to be there in the 2nd round...then either you're lying or you're stupid but got lucky.

let's not forget, they were on the market for a young QB at the time. this was before Alex Smith's "resurrection".

I know fantasy football isn't the exact same but the drafting process itself is still very similar. If I see a player that I think everyone has way underrated sitting there in the 1st round of the draft I don't go get him if I believe that noone knows how good he is. Part of being a GM is out manuvering your competition on draft day.

An example would be our drafting of duane brown. We didn't think anybody had him higher on our board so we dropped back a few spots and picked him up at the tail end of the first instead of the middle. We COULD have just taken him at 15(ish, don't remember exactly) but we dropped back.

If you thought that Mettenberger was the best QB in this draft would you take him No. 1 overall?

Mike

drs23
03-28-2014, 10:23 AM
there has not been a trade out the number 1 draft position in ten years. the last time a team traded an entire draft for any pick was the Ricky Williams saints stuff. A trade like this one is the a combined wet dream for the entire Texans fans base and organization.

Actually, with the Texans already having 11 picks, getting an "entire" draft is not functionally practical w/o lots of trade back ups and move picks into 2015.

Exactly.