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thunderkyss
01-11-2014, 11:18 AM
So every year there are a number of QBs who enter the NFL as "projects" Are there any out there that should be considered in addition to the 1st round QBs of this draft?

The two I'm most concerned with are Ryan Mallet & Brian Hoyer.

Hoyer 6'2" 215lbs Michigan State.
UDFA to New England in 2009. Signed by the Cleveland Browns He (& O'Brien) was with the Patriots from 2009-2011, spent 2012 between the Patriots & Cardinals, signed a 2 year deal with the Browns. He leap-frogged their back up QB & started 4 games. The Browns won all 4 games; Hoyer injured his ACL in the 4th.

The guaranteed portion of his contract has been paid. It would cost the Browns nothing to trade him.

Of course I'm thinking acquiring Hoyer would allow us flexibility to take a bigger chance on a QB later in the draft. At the same time, have the Browns (also without a head coach) seen enough to likely pass on a QB with the first overall pick & select Jadaveon Clowney or Anthony Barr if the third overall pick in the 2014 draft.

Would the presence of Hoyer & Weeden allow the Browns the freedom to move to the #1 pick to select someone other than a QB, if they felt the need exists?

Hoyer appeared to be a competent NFL QB, if nothing else you'd think he would have made a fine back-up for Tom Brady. Why did they draft Mallet in the third round, then release Hoyer a year later & how much influence did Bob O'Brien have on those decisions (he was the Patriots QB coach & OC when Mallet was drafted. He was not with the Patriots when they released Hoyer.)

Mallet 6'6" 245lbs Arkansas
We (http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/6470/ryan-mallett) suspected Mallett would fall to the third round, and it may have been fourth or fifth if not for New England. One front office exec tells ESPN's Adam Schefter that Mallett was the top QB on the Patriots' board. While Mallett boasts an arm touched by the gods, he also possesses the sloth-like movement of a late-career Drew Bledsoe. Worse, there have been documented reports of drug usage and consumption issues in college to go with character red flags. Put simply, no team in the league wanted him as the face of the franchise. Bill Belichick will try to develop Mallett as Tom Brady's successor or an eventual trade chip.
In addition there were some red flags surrounding Mallet. There was evidence of immaturity, talks of drug consumption, & reports of being late to team interviews. After the draft there were stories of his exploits much like Gronk...partying all night, living fast & disappointing in camp & OTAs.

But... the reports changed dramatically before the 2013 season. He was impressive. Thoughts began circulating that he could be Brady's heir apparent. However, the Patriots extended Tom Brady into forever & reassured all that Mallet was trade bait. Though the Browns entered talks with the Patriots on more than one occasion to acquire Mallet, a deal never materialized. The Patriots held firm to their price, a high 2nd round pick, pricing teams like Arizona out of the market.


If the cost last season was an early 2, would the Patriots take two thirds? An early third, an early 6th & an early 7th? Or if there was some way we could acquire him without giving up our 2nd round pick.

"Sloth-like movement" does not excite me. But whether you or I like the idea or not, we should consider that O'Brien may offer the Patriots our 2nd round pick for Mallet. He was part of the staff that used a 3rd (74th overall) to acquire him in the first place. How does he compare to the talent that "should" be available in the second round? Boyd, Mettenberger, McCarron?

Keep in mind, with two NFL off-seasons under his belt, Mallet should be ready to start from day 1.

kingtexan
01-11-2014, 11:25 AM
Mallet is worth a look.

Norg
01-11-2014, 11:39 AM
I like Mc lovin hell he beat us LOL

bah007
01-11-2014, 12:18 PM
Mallett probably costs us the #33 at minimum. Maybe our 3rd with next year's 2nd. NE has no reason to give him up for anything less than what they want.

Hoyer hasn't really proved much at the NFL level either. Let's not change history, the Browns played well when Hoyer was QB, but he was no superstar. He was efficient. But he will also be priced high because of how the team was performing when he got injured. I think he would cost us a 3rd round pick minimum.

If we want to trade for a QB we're most likely going to have to overpay. That's just the nature of the game.

thunderkyss
01-11-2014, 12:47 PM
Mallett probably costs us the #33 at minimum. Maybe our 3rd with next year's 2nd. NE has no reason to give him up for anything less than what they want.


They were asking for a high second last year. He's done nothing to increase his value since. On the other hand, the Pats have commited to Tom Brady for quite some time & have had pretty good success finding QBs in the last few years.


Hoyer hasn't really proved much at the NFL level either. Let's not change history, the Browns played well when Hoyer was QB, but he was no superstar. He was efficient. But he will also be priced high because of how the team was performing when he got injured. I think he would cost us a 3rd round pick minimum.


The interest in Hoyer is two fold. If the Browns feel good with Hoyer, then the possibility of them moving up with us to draft someone other than a QB is more plausible. If it appears that the Rams are in love with Clowney... we may be able to swap with Cleveland & still get Bridgewater.


If we want to trade for a QB we're most likely going to have to overpay. That's just the nature of the game.

Not really. Proven talent has lost it's value in the NFL. We've seen good/great talent traded for next to nothing over the last 6 years or so. We gave up Demeco for a 4th. The 49ers got Boldin for a 5th. Well... the Browns did get a 1st for Richardson, but other than that...

Then Kraft has an affection for McNair. Perhaps Belichick has an affection for O'Brien.... perhaps they both want to do Crennel a "favor"


Who knows?

bah007
01-11-2014, 01:33 PM
They were asking for a high second last year. He's done nothing to increase his value since. On the other hand, the Pats have commited to Tom Brady for quite some time & have had pretty good success finding QBs in the last few years.



The interest in Hoyer is two fold. If the Browns feel good with Hoyer, then the possibility of them moving up with us to draft someone other than a QB is more plausible. If it appears that the Rams are in love with Clowney... we may be able to swap with Cleveland & still get Bridgewater.



Not really. Proven talent has lost it's value in the NFL. We've seen good/great talent traded for next to nothing over the last 6 years or so. We gave up Demeco for a 4th. The 49ers got Boldin for a 5th. Well... the Browns did get a 1st for Richardson, but other than that...

Then Kraft has an affection for McNair. Perhaps Belichick has an affection for O'Brien.... perhaps they both want to do Crennel a "favor"


Who knows?

The commitment to Brady doesn't change the fact that they have all the leverage in any trade negotiations about Mallett. They don't need to get rid of him, which means that any offer made will have to be shaded in their favor for it to be accepted. They are perfectly happy holding on to him for now if nobody gives them what they want.

I agree about Cleveland as a trade partner. I like it. Now we just have to make sure that there is somebody they want.

It's not so much about how proven the talent is as it is the fact that the talent is a QB. The value for an unproven QB with potential is almost always going to be higher than the value of a proven talent at any other position. That's just the game now. QBs are valued above all else.

I would love for the Patriots to do us a favor. But in my mind, one reason they are probably as successful as they have been is because they do not do favors for others.

gohogs14
01-11-2014, 06:34 PM
Mallett has a ton of potential and upside but his bust factor could be high too. BOB will have to decide if taking someone like clowney in the first and trading the 2nd for mallett would be better than bridgewater. I think that's what it would take to get him anyways. He's just as much of an unknown as the QBs in the draft.

just for reference- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OurYaWeYlQw

Hell of an arm, but probably needs a good OL to operate

BullNation4Life
01-13-2014, 03:20 PM
I think Mallett will be a Texan before the start of training camp, if not this year, next year.

Young, strong arm, not a statue in the pocket, can move around a bit. I think he has huge upside especially running a system he has been involved in for the last 3 years sitting behind Brady...

deucetx
01-13-2014, 03:38 PM
More and more we're hearing the Browns are strongly interested in Manziel. Seems like the Texans camp will have to put up rumors themselves to stir the pot because if I am the Browns and don't think the Texans want my guy I'm aiming for the Rams. I mean, who could the Rams draft? Unless they are ready to move on from Bradford they don't need Clowney because their biggest strength is defensive end with Quinn (possible defensive mvp) and Chris Long. Clowney doesn't seem the 4-3 linebacker in the slighest. So that may be the best trading partner if there is no word that the Texans are interested in someone you want.

The more I look at it the more I believe there will definitely be a trade in the top five. Only hope that it is us and we find ourselves a good dance partner. Guess we'll really see what Smith is made of if it happens.

steelbtexan
01-13-2014, 03:52 PM
Mallett for a 3rd and 5th

Trade 1-1 to the Browns for 1-4, the two Browns 3rd rd picks and a 2015 1st seems fair

Dutchrudder
01-13-2014, 03:58 PM
So every year there are a number of QBs who enter the NFL as "projects" Are there any out there that should be considered in addition to the 1st round QBs of this draft?

The two I'm most concerned with are Ryan Mallet & Brian Hoyer.

Hoyer 6'2" 215lbs Michigan State.
UDFA to New England in 2009. Signed by the Cleveland Browns He (& O'Brien) was with the Patriots from 2009-2011, spent 2012 between the Patriots & Cardinals, signed a 2 year deal with the Browns. He leap-frogged their back up QB & started 4 games. The Browns won all 4 games; Hoyer injured his ACL in the 4th.

The guaranteed portion of his contract has been paid. It would cost the Browns nothing to trade him.

Of course I'm thinking acquiring Hoyer would allow us flexibility to take a bigger chance on a QB later in the draft. At the same time, have the Browns (also without a head coach) seen enough to likely pass on a QB with the first overall pick & select Jadaveon Clowney or Anthony Barr if the third overall pick in the 2014 draft.

Would the presence of Hoyer & Weeden allow the Browns the freedom to move to the #1 pick to select someone other than a QB, if they felt the need exists?

Hoyer appeared to be a competent NFL QB, if nothing else you'd think he would have made a fine back-up for Tom Brady. Why did they draft Mallet in the third round, then release Hoyer a year later & how much influence did Bob O'Brien have on those decisions (he was the Patriots QB coach & OC when Mallet was drafted. He was not with the Patriots when they released Hoyer.)



Do you bother to look up any of this stuff before you post it, or watch the games? Hoyer started 3 games total, and went down in the 1st quarter of the third game on a weird slide. Saying they won even 3 games with him as the starter is misleading. They won 2 games, and they had to constantly scheme around having a below-average QB. 2 wins does not make a QB.

They used some fake FGs, fake punts and lots of play action to give Hoyer a chance. He wasn't exactly standing in the pocket and making lazer throws to receivers. Hoyer looked good early this season, but it was mostly due to Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon. He did his job in getting the ball to them, but he wasn't making any insanely good throws that would make you want to take him over Teddy, Manziel or Bortles. Now he showed some promise for sure, but he's a long way away from being a bonafide franchise QB.

steelbtexan
01-13-2014, 04:25 PM
Do you bother to look up any of this stuff before you post it, or watch the games? Hoyer started 3 games total, and went down in the 1st quarter of the third game on a weird slide. Saying they won even 3 games with him as the starter is misleading. They won 2 games, and they had to constantly scheme around having a below-average QB. 2 wins does not make a QB.

They used some fake FGs, fake punts and lots of play action to give Hoyer a chance. He wasn't exactly standing in the pocket and making lazer throws to receivers. Hoyer looked good early this season, but it was mostly due to Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon. He did his job in getting the ball to them, but he wasn't making any insanely good throws that would make you want to take him over Teddy, Manziel or Bortles. Now he showed some promise for sure, but he's a long way away from being a bonafide franchise QB.

Take this man at his word

He knows his Cleveland Browns football.

When do you think we should start the sign up for the 2014 TT Mock Draft. People need to start doing their homework early.

The Pencil Neck
01-13-2014, 05:00 PM
Take this man at his word

He knows his Cleveland Browns football.

When do you think we should start the sign up for the 2014 TT Mock Draft. People need to start doing their homework early.

We might want to do a couple of them this year.

gohogs14
01-16-2014, 11:53 AM
Found this from before the draft

Size: While he may be just slightly on the thin side, Mallett certainly has the requisite height to see over the line in the NFL. Some question whether he’s too tall, and whether or not that will affect the length of his stride, as well as how quickly he is able to get the throw out at the next level. Overall, Mallett has the size to play in the NFL.

Arm Strength: Easily the strongest aspect of Mallett’s game is the strength of his arm. Mallett has the ability to stick the ball in places other quarterbacks can’t, because of the velocity he can place on the ball. In his first season at Arkansas, he often forgot to take the zip off of some of his passes, but he seems to have corrected that in his junior season. Mallett has the physical ability to make all of the throws at the next level.

Accuracy: Mallett has definitely improved his this season, but he still struggles with it when under pressure. After going over tape on the Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Ohio State games, a clean pocket for Mallett is a must. Give him a clean pocket he throws strikes, get in his face, and his mechanics break down, and he starts throwing the ball all over the place (specifically high). Bobby Petrino’s offense at Arkansas, while appearing “pro style” really is more “power spread” than anything else. Mallett often had a lot of very wide passing lanes to throw into, which likely inflated his completion percentage

Mechanical: Much has been made of Mallett’s mechanics, and how they need to be cleaned up at the next level. His footwork, especially outside the pocket is quite bad. This often happens to taller long striders, who aren’t really natural athletically, but with Mallett (who also was a pretty decent basketball player) it shouldn’t be the issue that it is. He throws the ball with an elongated motion that’s going to have to be shortened at the next level. He releases that ball at the same point every time when he has a clean pocket, but when protection breaks down, his release point varies, which leads to high throws. Mallett has quite possibly the best play fake I’ve seen in the last decade, which should serve him well at the next level.

Mobility: Mallett is not very mobile, and teams would be wise to keep him in the pocket at the next level. Mallett did have a surprising amount of success on roll outs at Arkansas, in part due to the extremely convincing play fake he possesses, but the speed of defenders at the next level should dissuade any offensive coordinator from making roll outs a regular part of Mallett’s repertoire.

Pre/Post Snap Reads: Mallett was one of the few top draft eligible quarterbacks with the freedom to change the play at the line. Mallett has shown a knack for a pre snap diagnosis of what coverage shell is coming, but has struggled with correctly diagnosing who the blitzer is on zone blitzes.

Intangibles: While Mallett seemed to “will” his team back to a win against Georgia (though I think at least 50% of the credit there goes to wide receiver Greg Childs), he seemingly has folded in nearly every other big game Arkansas has had with the game on the line. Late interceptions against both Alabama and Ohio State cost the team both games.

Character: Probably the mostly hotly debated aspect of Mallett right now is his character. We reported on his alleged drug use, his arrest for public intox, and there have been numerous other rumors floating around regarding Mallett’s character that have definitely given pause when considering him as the potential face of your franchise. Teammates have vouched for his work ethic, and told us that Mallett even delivered pizzas to students who were camped out in line for tickets to the Alabama-Arkansas game in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Teams will definitely want to do extensive checking into his background before making him the face of their franchise.

Overall Mallett brings a pretty unique package to the table. Teams will want to evaluate the mechanical and personal issues he has, and see if they think those will be a hinderance to his success at the NFL level, after all no one wants to bring in the next Ryan Leaf. Mallett, however, reminds me less of Leaf, and more of Jeff George, for better or worse. I have a mid second round grade on Mallett, though I think he could possibly sneak into the back end of the first round.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/420983907337912320/_UheROig.jpeg

handswarmer
01-16-2014, 02:44 PM
Do you bother to look up any of this stuff before you post it, or watch the games? Hoyer started 3 games total, and went down in the 1st quarter of the third game on a weird slide. Saying they won even 3 games with him as the starter is misleading. They won 2 games, and they had to constantly scheme around having a below-average QB. 2 wins does not make a QB.

They used some fake FGs, fake punts and lots of play action to give Hoyer a chance. He wasn't exactly standing in the pocket and making lazer throws to receivers. Hoyer looked good early this season, but it was mostly due to Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon. He did his job in getting the ball to them, but he wasn't making any insanely good throws that would make you want to take him over Teddy, Manziel or Bortles. Now he showed some promise for sure, but he's a long way away from being a bonafide franchise QB.

Second coming of Matt Flynn :thisbig:

htownfan32
01-16-2014, 03:46 PM
We might want to do a couple of them this year.

Looking forward to it.

kiwitexansfan
01-16-2014, 10:50 PM
Jeff George?

Million dollar arm, 10c brain?

thunderkyss
01-17-2014, 06:15 AM
I'm not big on college football. I occasionally watch when there is a player that garners a lot of attention (hype), but that doesn't happen often. That said, all I can do is go back to old scouting reports & try to get a feel for these guys. Looking at Mallet, I find it hard to understand why he wasn't selected earlier, even harder to understand how guys like Blain Gabbert, Jake Locker, & Ryan Tannehill were selected ahead of him.

Gil Alcaraz, New Era Scouting (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/541618-2011-nfl-draft-ryan-mallett-scouting-report)Final Word: Any team would be glad to have a player of Mallett’s ability and leadership taking snaps for their offense. Passing stats come easily and in large quantities for Mallett, who is as productive as they come at the quarterback spot.

After having an up-and-down season in 2009, he came back in 2010 after considering the NFL and proved that he could be smarter and more consistent with his decisions. He has shown great maturation since joining Arkansas in 2008 as a transfer from Michigan.

Mallett has all of the tools to become a sensational quarterback in the NFL. No matter the situation, he is a proven leader and hard worker, but can sometimes lose focus when things start to fall apart, as evidenced by Arkansas’ 2009 loss to Alabama. Mallett completed just 34 percent of his passes as the Razorbacks lost by a score of 35-7.

Teammates seem to rally around his vocal leadership and feed off his positive energy, but scouts will need to look into why coaches at Michigan had issues with him that eventually led to him transferring.

During spring practices in 2008, he missed the final two weeks due to an injured finger on his throwing hand. Other than that, there are no standout durability issues for Mallett.

Given the right coaching and the proper system, he could potentially put up big numbers in the NFL just as he did under Petrino. In order to succeed, he will need to work on controlling his strength on deep balls and making better decisions with defenders bearing down on him.

If the right circumstances arise, Mallett could come off the board in the late first/early second round of the 2011 draft.

He's got a lot of the same things the QBs in this class have, in different combinations, but enough (I think) to warrant a 1st round grade. Definitely NFL starter material.

Size
Major conference
Prolific
Pro style offense
Pocket Passer
Arm strength
Good decisions


What am I missing?

Exascor
01-17-2014, 06:35 AM
What am I missing?He had off the field issues but I haven't been able to find any specifics.

PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/08/talk-continues-of-potential-draft-day-plunge-for-ryan-mallett/)

Found this little tidbit on NFL.com from the same time of year as now. Sounds VERY similar to this year's draft. Sounds like the dark horse won...

NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d83c12/article/broncos-believe-elway-tebow-can-lead-franchise-to-glory?module=HP_spotlight)

1. Carolina not on his mind
Andrew Luck's decision to stay in school seems shocking now, since it just happened, but it's actually consistent with what the Stanford quarterback has said all along. The fallout? It seriously devalues Carolina's pick, the first one in the draft, which figured to be as marketable as any in recent memory. And the reason why is simple. "Andrew Luck," one college scout told me, "is the safest quarterback prospect to come along since Peyton Manning." What you were bound to hear over the next few months, had Luck come out, was how Arkansas' Ryan Mallett has a stronger arm. Which is exactly what folks said about Manning in comparison to Ryan Leaf. That brings us to the second point of impact. You might hear now that no quarterback can rise to No. 1. Like when Matt Leinart decided to return to USC in 2005 (Alex Smith went first), or when Sam Bradford went back to Oklahoma in 2009 (Matthew Stafford went first). Someone will, inevitably, go up there. The first candidate would be Mallett, but sources say off-field concerns are likely to affect his stock. That brings us to Missouri's Blaine Gabbert, with Auburn's Cam Newton as the dark horse.

thunderkyss
01-17-2014, 07:05 AM
He had off the field issues but I haven't been able to find any specifics.

PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/08/talk-continues-of-potential-draft-day-plunge-for-ryan-mallett/)

Found this little tidbit on NFL.com from the same time of year as now. Sounds VERY similar to this year's draft. Sounds like the dark horse won...

NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d83c12/article/broncos-believe-elway-tebow-can-lead-franchise-to-glory?module=HP_spotlight)

To me, that sounds like Mallet should be given heavy consideration. OB drafted him. If he's matured some since then, he could be a steal. The Patriots wanted a high 2nd for him last year, I don't see why they'd want more this year.

The season we traded for Schaub, the Falcons were asking for a 1st, Rick Smith talked them into two 2s. If he can pull that off this year, give up two 3s for Mallet, or even this years 3 & next years 2, that would be a steal....

If Mallet delivers.

bah007
01-17-2014, 07:07 AM
Major knocks that I remember against Mallet were:

- That he was not a good leader. He had a ton of confidence but his teammates were turned off by his arrogance and inability to accept that anything could be his fault. This was a rumor that I never saw supported in writing, but maybe it was his interviews that caused him to drop in the draft?

- He time and time again crumbled at the end of games when his team needed him to step up.

- He was rumored to have been involved with some major drugs. I don't remember which ones exactly but something like cocaine or meth. Again, this was only a rumor as well.

I was never high on Mallet for reason #2. He always reminded me of Elvis Grbac, who did eventually have two good seasons with the Chiefs but that was it.

thunderkyss
01-17-2014, 07:10 AM
- He time and time again crumbled at the end of games when his team needed him to step up.



Ok, if this is true (& should be easy to see), he's off the list.

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 07:27 AM
To me, that sounds like Mallet should be given heavy consideration. OB drafted him. If he's matured some since then, he could be a steal. The Patriots wanted a high 2nd for him last year, I don't see why they'd want more this year.

The season we traded for Schaub, the Falcons were asking for a 1st, Rick Smith talked them into two 2s. If he can pull that off this year, give up two 3s for Mallet, or even this years 3 & next years 2, that would be a steal....

If Mallet delivers.

Seems like a steal to me.

Has anybody heard anything about any issues Mallett has had since turning pro? Work ethic/drug problems etc....

It just took an 18-20 yr old kid (Mallett) awhile to mature. Just like most 18-20 yr old kids.

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 07:33 AM
Major knocks that I remember against Mallet were:

- That he was not a good leader. He had a ton of confidence but his teammates were turned off by his arrogance and inability to accept that anything could be his fault. This was a rumor that I never saw supported in writing, but maybe it was his interviews that caused him to drop in the draft?

- He time and time again crumbled at the end of games when his team needed him to step up.

- He was rumored to have been involved with some major drugs. I don't remember which ones exactly but something like cocaine or meth. Again, this was only a rumor as well.

I was never high on Mallet for reason #2. He always reminded me of Elvis Grbac, who did eventually have two good seasons with the Chiefs but that was it.

Valid questions, How many games did Arkansas win before Mallett got there? After he left? I don't remember him choking at the end of games. Mallett has more god given ability than Grbac ever had and more than any QB in this draft. IMHO We are not talking about another Schaub here.

Marshall
01-17-2014, 07:35 AM
To me, that sounds like Mallet should be given heavy consideration. OB drafted him. If he's matured some since then, he could be a steal. The Patriots wanted a high 2nd for him last year, I don't see why they'd want more this year.

The season we traded for Schaub, the Falcons were asking for a 1st, Rick Smith talked them into two 2s. If he can pull that off this year, give up two 3s for Mallet, or even this years 3 & next years 2, that would be a steal....

If Mallet delivers.

As long as New England doesn't ask sure thing money or draft picks for a project, I'm OK with a trade and letting Keenum, Yates and Mallet compete. All have a better chance if we get better line play from either the draft or from IR.

thunderkyss
01-17-2014, 07:56 AM
As long as New England doesn't ask sure thing money or draft picks for a project, I'm OK with a trade and letting Keenum, Yates and Mallet compete. All have a better chance if we get better line play from either the draft or from IR.

I still expect Richard Smith/OB to assess the QBs in this draft. If they think Mallet is a better prospect, then that's the direction I want them to go.

Even still, I would like Richard Smith to get better at acquiring draft capital, whether that is future picks, or talent worth trading for picks. IMO, that's one of his bigger failures as a GM.

Our future QB may not be in this draft, may not be Ryan Mallet, but we need to acquire the capital to allow us to move up in the draft if need be, without hurting our future.

bah007
01-17-2014, 02:24 PM
Valid questions, How many games did Arkansas win before Mallett got there? After he left? I don't remember him choking at the end of games. Mallett has more god given ability than Grbac ever had and more than any QB in this draft. IMHO We are not talking about another Schaub here.

Arkansas went 8-5 in Houston Nutt's last season in 2007. They went 5-7 while transitioning from Nutt to Bobby Petrino in 2008. Then with Mallett, they went 8-5 and 10-3. In Petrino's final year they went 11-2 with Tyler Wilson at QB. They then went 4-8 with the same QB but with a different coach, John L. Smith.

Mallett was not responsible for Arkansas' success. Petrino was. Mallett was a key cog who put up good stats, but the team tied a school record with 11 wins the very next season after he left. With a QB who was drafted in the 4th round and promptly got cut because he couldn't beat out UDFA Matt McGloin to be the third string QB in Oakland.

Mallett may have a ton of ability but ability isn't everything. There are numerous examples of that. I still remember everyone making a deal of it when Brian Billick compared him to Ryan Leaf before the draft.

2010:
-In his final college game, down 5 points, his defense blocked a punt and gave him the ball on the 18 with a minute left. He threw an incompletion and then a pick.

-Earlier that year, they led Alabama 20-14 going into the fourth quarter. In that fourth quarter Mallett was 4/10 for 44 yards and 2 INTs. The first one set Bama up on the 12 yard line when they were down three points. They scored a TD to go up four with three minutes left. Next possession, Mallett throws another pick to seal the deal.

2009:
-Arkansas was down 7 to Ole Miss entering the fourth quarter. Arkansas only got the ball twice. Mallett didn't make the most of it. He went 3/6 for 44 yards and both drives ended with him taking sacks on 3rd down. Their last six plays they totaled -16 yards. -21 if you count the delay of game right before that sequence because Mallett didn't get the snap off in time with his team out of timeouts.

-Against Alabama they were down 14-7 with 10 mintues left in the third quarter. Mallett went 2/11 for 38 yards and an INT the rest of the way.

-Against Georgia they entered the fourth quarter down four points. He went 2/11 for 29 yards.
----------

That's five games in two years where he shrunk in crunch time. In most of those games he had nice looking stats. But the box score doesn't tell the story. When his team needed him he failed to deliver.

TheIronDuke
01-17-2014, 02:59 PM
Yay let's trade for a back-up again! No sense actually drafting a QB when there's so many back-ups in the league! :turtle:

TheMatrix31
01-17-2014, 03:18 PM
No thanks on this guy. Sounds like way too much trouble and no real evidence he can play. Why the **** would we trade a higher-end pick for this guy, especially to the Patriots who are notorious for destroying people in trades? Am I missing something here? Just draft our own guy. Enough of this.

thunderkyss
01-17-2014, 03:23 PM
No thanks on this guy. Sounds like way too much trouble and no real evidence he can play. Why the **** would we trade a higher-end pick for this guy, especially to the Patriots who are notorious for destroying people in trades? Am I missing something here? Just draft our own guy. Enough of this.

We have no more reason to believe Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles can play.

infantrycak
01-17-2014, 03:40 PM
We have no more reason to believe Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles can play.

You mean other than they all have had superior college careers, have higher grades going into the draft, will go in the 1st round instead of the 3rd and have played in meaningful games in the past three years?

IDEXAN
01-17-2014, 05:49 PM
I dunno what Mallet might cost us if our new HC wants him, but we've got the first pick in the 3rd round which is equivalent to the 74th pick (where Mallet was selected in '11) plus a 4th round pick, so maybe our 3rd rounder for Mallet would make sense. But would BB agree ?
Mallet is comparable to Matt Schaub in size and his sloth-footed footed agility, but there's one very significance difference: Schaub's got a .22 and Mallet has a Howitzer.

drs23
01-17-2014, 06:18 PM
Arkansas went 8-5 in Houston Nutt's last season in 2007. They went 5-7 while transitioning from Nutt to Bobby Petrino in 2008. Then with Mallett, they went 8-5 and 10-3. In Petrino's final year they went 11-2 with Tyler Wilson at QB. They then went 4-8 with the same QB but with a different coach, John L. Smith.

Mallett was not responsible for Arkansas' success. Petrino was. Mallett was a key cog who put up good stats, but the team tied a school record with 11 wins the very next season after he left. With a QB who was drafted in the 4th round and promptly got cut because he couldn't beat out UDFA Matt McGloin to be the third string QB in Oakland.

Mallett may have a ton of ability but ability isn't everything. There are numerous examples of that. I still remember everyone making a deal of it when Brian Billick compared him to Ryan Leaf before the draft.

2010:
-In his final college game, down 5 points, his defense blocked a punt and gave him the ball on the 18 with a minute left. He threw an incompletion and then a pick.

-Earlier that year, they led Alabama 20-14 going into the fourth quarter. In that fourth quarter Mallett was 4/10 for 44 yards and 2 INTs. The first one set Bama up on the 12 yard line when they were down three points. They scored a TD to go up four with three minutes left. Next possession, Mallett throws another pick to seal the deal.

2009:
-Arkansas was down 7 to Ole Miss entering the fourth quarter. Arkansas only got the ball twice. Mallett didn't make the most of it. He went 3/6 for 44 yards and both drives ended with him taking sacks on 3rd down. Their last six plays they totaled -16 yards. -21 if you count the delay of game right before that sequence because Mallett didn't get the snap off in time with his team out of timeouts.

-Against Alabama they were down 14-7 with 10 mintues left in the third quarter. Mallett went 2/11 for 38 yards and an INT the rest of the way.

-Against Georgia they entered the fourth quarter down four points. He went 2/11 for 29 yards.
----------

That's five games in two years where he shrunk in crunch time. In most of those games he had nice looking stats. But the box score doesn't tell the story. When his team needed him he failed to deliver.

Yeah, that's the guy I want...to be nowhere near a Texan's roster. I keep seeing his completion percentage since turning pro. One for you, one for us.

No thanks. I don't see how anyone, especially the guys I see signing off on it can say that with a straight face.

drs23
01-17-2014, 06:22 PM
We have no more reason to believe Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles can play.

TK, how can you say that with a straight face? He was rated way up there with Gabbert and Locker.

thunderkyss
01-17-2014, 07:13 PM
You mean other than they all have had superior college careers, have higher grades going into the draft, will go in the 1st round instead of the 3rd and have played in meaningful games in the past three years?

Sorry counselor, you're going to have to "define" "superior college careers" show me the draft grades you speak of.

I'm also not sure that Bridgewater would go in the first round in the same draft as Newton, Locker, & Ponder.

How many meaningful games did Colin Kaepernick play in 2011? Or Aaron Rodgers in 2005, 2006, or 2007?

From everything I've read, Mallet was as successful as any of these QBs in this draft (save Heisman winner Manziel), ran a pro style offense with Petrino, has the size, has the arm..... but because of some off field issues, he fell in the draft.

He's had some time to mature, he's studied under the GOAT, he's been coached by the GOAT...

TheMatrix31
01-17-2014, 07:16 PM
We have no more reason to believe Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles can play.

You mean other than they all have had superior college careers, have higher grades going into the draft, will go in the 1st round instead of the 3rd and have played in meaningful games in the past three years?

And the fact that we don't have to give up a pick to get him?

Look, if that's the guy they feel most comfortable with going with, then okay whatever. I would just hate that move. He's not even like Schaub or Foles or Cousins or some other backup that's shown glimmers in limited time. This guy has literally shown nothing other than being on the roster that O'Brien helped coach for a couple years.

Add to the fact that he appears to be a cancer? **** that. Stay far, far away.

gohogs14
01-17-2014, 08:27 PM
Arkansas went 8-5 in Houston Nutt's last season in 2007. They went 5-7 while transitioning from Nutt to Bobby Petrino in 2008. Then with Mallett, they went 8-5 and 10-3. In Petrino's final year they went 11-2 with Tyler Wilson at QB. They then went 4-8 with the same QB but with a different coach, John L. Smith.

Mallett was not responsible for Arkansas' success. Petrino was. Mallett was a key cog who put up good stats, but the team tied a school record with 11 wins the very next season after he left. With a QB who was drafted in the 4th round and promptly got cut because he couldn't beat out UDFA Matt McGloin to be the third string QB in Oakland.

Mallett may have a ton of ability but ability isn't everything. There are numerous examples of that. I still remember everyone making a deal of it when Brian Billick compared him to Ryan Leaf before the draft.

2010:
-In his final college game, down 5 points, his defense blocked a punt and gave him the ball on the 18 with a minute left. He threw an incompletion and then a pick.

-Earlier that year, they led Alabama 20-14 going into the fourth quarter. In that fourth quarter Mallett was 4/10 for 44 yards and 2 INTs. The first one set Bama up on the 12 yard line when they were down three points. They scored a TD to go up four with three minutes left. Next possession, Mallett throws another pick to seal the deal.

2009:
-Arkansas was down 7 to Ole Miss entering the fourth quarter. Arkansas only got the ball twice. Mallett didn't make the most of it. He went 3/6 for 44 yards and both drives ended with him taking sacks on 3rd down. Their last six plays they totaled -16 yards. -21 if you count the delay of game right before that sequence because Mallett didn't get the snap off in time with his team out of timeouts.

-Against Alabama they were down 14-7 with 10 mintues left in the third quarter. Mallett went 2/11 for 38 yards and an INT the rest of the way.

-Against Georgia they entered the fourth quarter down four points. He went 2/11 for 29 yards.
----------

That's five games in two years where he shrunk in crunch time. In most of those games he had nice looking stats. But the box score doesn't tell the story. When his team needed him he failed to deliver.

His 2009 season was his first year starting so he was very raw and admittedly had some pretty bad games on the road that year. But he still had 5 TDs against georgia...if you still lose after that then it's on your defense (which was horrible)

In 2010 though the only real "choke" i thought he had was alabama. In the ohio state game his WRs dropped about 12 passes, several for scores, in that game so it shouldn't have even come to that. He also led late comeback wins against Georgia and Mississippi State.

You mean other than they all have had superior college careers, have higher grades going into the draft, will go in the 1st round instead of the 3rd and have played in meaningful games in the past three years?

Don't know if i agree with you there, Mallett only played for two years and holds a ton of records

-Set or tied 43 school records in his time at Arkansas
-His career average of 29.6 yards per touchdown pass is the highest in SEC history
-His 158.1 career passing efficiency ranking is the third-highest in SEC history
-He threw for at least one touchdown in 25 of 26 Arkansas starts, multiple touchdowns in 15 starts at Arkansas and three or more touchdowns in 13 starts as a Razorback
-Finished 7th in the heisman trophy voting in 2010, just ahead of Colin Kaepernick and Andy Dalton


Teammates seem to rally around his vocal leadership and feed off his positive energy, but scouts will need to look into why coaches at Michigan had issues with him that eventually led to him transferring.

During spring practices in 2008, he missed the final two weeks due to an injured finger on his throwing hand. Other than that, there are no standout durability issues for Mallett.

The first comment is kinda odd to me, he left because the new coach wanted a dual-threat QB like he had with pat white at west virginia and that doesnt suit his style. He also broke his foot in the offseason before the 2010 season but they left that out

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 10:17 PM
Arkansas went 8-5 in Houston Nutt's last season in 2007. They went 5-7 while transitioning from Nutt to Bobby Petrino in 2008. Then with Mallett, they went 8-5 and 10-3. In Petrino's final year they went 11-2 with Tyler Wilson at QB. They then went 4-8 with the same QB but with a different coach, John L. Smith.

Mallett was not responsible for Arkansas' success. Petrino was. Mallett was a key cog who put up good stats, but the team tied a school record with 11 wins the very next season after he left. With a QB who was drafted in the 4th round and promptly got cut because he couldn't beat out UDFA Matt McGloin to be the third string QB in Oakland.

Mallett may have a ton of ability but ability isn't everything. There are numerous examples of that. I still remember everyone making a deal of it when Brian Billick compared him to Ryan Leaf before the draft.

2010:
-In his final college game, down 5 points, his defense blocked a punt and gave him the ball on the 18 with a minute left. He threw an incompletion and then a pick.

-Earlier that year, they led Alabama 20-14 going into the fourth quarter. In that fourth quarter Mallett was 4/10 for 44 yards and 2 INTs. The first one set Bama up on the 12 yard line when they were down three points. They scored a TD to go up four with three minutes left. Next possession, Mallett throws another pick to seal the deal.

2009:
-Arkansas was down 7 to Ole Miss entering the fourth quarter. Arkansas only got the ball twice. Mallett didn't make the most of it. He went 3/6 for 44 yards and both drives ended with him taking sacks on 3rd down. Their last six plays they totaled -16 yards. -21 if you count the delay of game right before that sequence because Mallett didn't get the snap off in time with his team out of timeouts.

-Against Alabama they were down 14-7 with 10 mintues left in the third quarter. Mallett went 2/11 for 38 yards and an INT the rest of the way.

-Against Georgia they entered the fourth quarter down four points. He went 2/11 for 29 yards.
----------

That's five games in two years where he shrunk in crunch time. In most of those games he had nice looking stats. But the box score doesn't tell the story. When his team needed him he failed to deliver.

This makes me ask why isn't Petrino the new HC of the Texans. LOL

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 10:23 PM
I dunno what Mallet might cost us if our new HC wants him, but we've got the first pick in the 3rd round which is equivalent to the 74th pick (where Mallet was selected in '11) plus a 4th round pick, so maybe our 3rd rounder for Mallet would make sense. But would BB agree ?
Mallet is comparable to Matt Schaub in size and his sloth-footed footed agility, but there's one very significance difference: Schaub's got a .22 and Mallet has a Howitzer.

Mallett is basically Mettenberger with experience in BO'B's system. If McNair truly believes that the Texans are a short turnaround, then Mallett is a better bet than any rookie QB that will be drafted.

bah007
01-17-2014, 10:29 PM
This makes me ask why isn't Petrino the new HC of the Texans. LOL

If he knew how to drive a motorcycle he would probably already be getting his second shot in the NFL.

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 10:36 PM
And the fact that we don't have to give up a pick to get him?

Look, if that's the guy they feel most comfortable with going with, then okay whatever. I would just hate that move. He's not even like Schaub or Foles or Cousins or some other backup that's shown glimmers in limited time. This guy has literally shown nothing other than being on the roster that O'Brien helped coach for a couple years.

Add to the fact that he appears to be a cancer? **** that. Stay far, far away.

Uhhhhh!!!!! Mallett is Tom Brady's backup. That probably explains a few things. Tell me about all of the trouble Mallett has been in since becoming an NFL player?

I understand the fanbase not wanting to go down this road again. But know this, Mallett has more god given ability than Schaub ever had. Smart- Schaub-Mallett even, Mobility Schaub= Mallett, Mallett is probably more mobile. Arm strength Mallett>Schaub No comparison.

BTW, I trust BO'B to make this call.

steelbtexan
01-17-2014, 10:39 PM
If he knew how to drive a motorcycle he would probably already be getting his second shot in the NFL.

True

I wonder if Arian will be held to the same standard? LOL

thunderkyss
01-18-2014, 05:43 AM
If he knew how to drive a motorcycle he would probably already be getting his second shot in the NFL.

http://imageshack.com/a/img163/7708/yzc.gif

Goatcheese
01-18-2014, 06:43 AM
Mallet is comparable to Matt Schaub in size and his sloth-footed footed agility, but there's one very significance difference: Schaub's got a .22 and Mallet has a Howitzer.

Mallet makes Schaub look like a world class athlete and it's really not close.

5.24 vs 5.04 40
24 vs 30 vertical
103 vs 110 broad jump

Schaub was explosive in comparison (pre-injury obviously).

IDEXAN
01-18-2014, 08:53 AM
Mallett is basically Mettenberger with experience in BO'B's system. If McNair truly believes that the Texans are a short turnaround, then Mallett is a better bet than any rookie QB that will be drafted.
Or maybe BOB just feels that Mallett is a better QB for his offense than any rookie coming out, no matter if there's a multi-year turnaround to competitive form for the Texans or not ?

MistaRed
01-18-2014, 09:12 AM
Ryan Mallet coming here via trade is something that would interest me. Longshot it happens though.

gohogs14
01-18-2014, 09:32 AM
Mallett is basically Mettenberger with experience in BO'B's system. If McNair truly believes that the Texans are a short turnaround, then Mallett is a better bet than any rookie QB that will be drafted.

Yeah i always thought Mettenberger was a poor man's Mallett. Their styles are pretty similar, and they both had/have off the field concerns.


If he knew how to drive a motorcycle he would probably already be getting his second shot in the NFL.

lol after what happened with the falcons i don't think any team would take a risk on him, and i don't think he wants to either. I think he realizes he's a college coach. I could see him being a solid NFL OC again though if his career ever takes a dive or something

IDEXAN
01-18-2014, 09:42 AM
Yeah i always thought Mettenberger was a poor man's Mallett. Their styles are pretty similar, and they both had/have off the field concerns.





Mallet may be as bad as Schaub, maybe even worse when it comes to running boots, but his arm alone makes him a different kind of prospect that Schaub. I mean if BOB really wants a vertical game say instead of a more WCO like Kubiak ran, he's got that with one guy but not the other.

CloakNNNdagger
01-18-2014, 10:09 AM
My preference between draft and other trade potentials remains Mallet. A nice honest assessment of Mallet from a July 2013 piece.

As for Ryan Mallett on the field, he has been blessed with alot of talent. Although he is slow, he has a cannon for an arm, arguably the strongest in the NFL. Despite his slow speed, he has shown he can escape from the pocket both at Arkansas and in the Preseason with the Patriots. He makes all of the right reads, has a great football IQ, is tall, has big hands and possesses a large wingspan. His height and wingspan are especially useful because he can see over the defense easier, making use of the whole field with his eyes. In addition, he can lift the football high in the air given his long arms. If he can learn ball security, this should help him avoid fumbling in the NFL when opposing defenses try to strip sack him or he takes off to scramble out of the pocket. In some ways, both athletically and when it comes to smarts, he is very similar to Brady. At 6'6'' 245 lbs he is a mountain of a man and he towers over the legendary Tom Brady who is 6'4'' 225 lbs. They both have similar 40 times too as Brady runs a 5.28 and Mallett runs a 5.37. As for his smarts, if you saw any of the 2011 pre draft coverage showed on ESPN you know ho much he knows about football. Mallett broke down game film with Jon Gruden and he knew everything Gruden was going to throw at him. As someone who can retain alot of information, and having Belichick and Brady as mentors, Mallett should be able to pick opposing defenses apart in a few years as Brady does now.

Regarding his weaknesses, he needs to learn better accuracy in the NFL, which should come with time. Especially, on touch passes the ball tends to sail over receivers' heads more often than he would like. Another problem with Mallett so far is that he throws the ball too hard on short throws sometimes. Two specific examples come to mind, both in the preseason for the Patriots. In the first example, Mallett threw a rocket to former Patriots receiver Taylor Price when he was only a few yards away coming over the middle. The throw sailed a little bit and Price got slammed by an oncoming defender while trying to make the catch. This not only could have severly injured Price, but it also caused him to drop the pass. The other example was when he threw a pass to former Pats WR Buddy Farnham over the middle. The ball went off of his hands because he anticipated a softer pass instead of a rocket out of Mallet's hand. He must learn to take some velocity off of his short throws if he wants to be a successful NFL QB.

With all that said, I believe that Ryan Mallett is a future star in the league but he has alot of work to do to get there. It would be a big mistake if the Patriots trade him as he can be the heir apparent to Tom Brady. If you are the Patriots, why would you trade a player with Mallett's potential for a 2nd round pick or possibly less, when you have an aging QB in Brady and Mallett is only 25 years old. If the worst were to happen and Brady were to have a season ending injury, Mallett would be a nice security blanket to have step in. link (http://www.foxboroblog.com/2013-articles/july/why-the-patriots-should-not-trade-ryan-mallett.html)

The latter question is not one that I have a great answer for.

infantrycak
01-18-2014, 10:21 AM
My preference between draft and other trade potentials remains Mallet. A nice honest assessment of Mallet from a July 2013 piece.

link (http://www.foxboroblog.com/2013-articles/july/why-the-patriots-should-not-trade-ryan-mallett.html)

The latter question is not one that I have a great answer for.

I do. Brady is likely to play for another 5 years. Neither Mallett nor the Pats is going to want the heir apparent taking over at 30 years old. They would have to franchise him to keep him, he's on the last year of his contract.

gohogs14
01-18-2014, 10:25 AM
The Gruden video that they were referring to- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAkdOs8IxLQ

bah007
01-18-2014, 10:39 AM
My preference between draft and other trade potentials remains Mallet. A nice honest assessment of Mallet from a July 2013 piece.

link (http://www.foxboroblog.com/2013-articles/july/why-the-patriots-should-not-trade-ryan-mallett.html)

The latter question is not one that I have a great answer for.

This lost me here:

In some ways, both athletically and when it comes to smarts, he is very similar to Brady.

There has never been anything to suggest this. At best it's just wishful thinking.

I have no problem with anyone who wants to paint Mallett in a positive light. He has a ton of tools. But there is a lot of reaching going on around here. Mallett very well may turn into a star. But up to this point the only positives he has shown is that he has a huge frame, a huge arm, and he was able to efficiently run Petrino's power spread offense, which has somehow been confused as being a pro style offense just because they run the ball a lot.

Does Mallett appear to have the required skills to be an elite NFL QB? Yes. Does he also show traits that suggest he could be a bust? Yes.

IDEXAN
01-18-2014, 10:46 AM
My preference between draft and other trade potentials remains Mallet. A nice honest assessment of Mallet from a July 2013 piece.


What a find ! Good job CND ! I love it because it fuels my dream and keeps it alive with the hopes of getting a stud veteran arm in FA or a trade and still having our #1 overall to field a team that included both JJ and Clowney, a defense that the whole league would fear. Also known as having ones cake
while consuming it.
But I love the comparison to Brady, obviously much more flattering than comparing "Big Tex" to the late Matt Schaub. Afterall, who knew that Mallet was a Brady clone ?
I do think it would be more challenging and expensive to prior Mallet out of the steely grip of Belicheck's
control, especially since the Pat's HC knows how much BOB likes his backup QB. And Brady could go down at anytime, it's happened before as we know, so delivering Mallet to the Texans may come at a higher price than the organization is prepared to pay.

thunderkyss
01-18-2014, 10:58 AM
I do think it would be more challenging and expensive to prior Mallet out of the steely grip of Belicheck's
control, especially since the Pat's HC knows how much BOB likes his backup QB.

Why? Belching only wanted a high second for him last year.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Nawzer
01-18-2014, 11:08 AM
Texans fans seem to be in love with backup mediocre QBs. It's like they're afraid of actually drafting a franchise caliber QB. Bill O'Brien is going to draft a QB with the first pick. It's a no brainer. He's not going to go with someone else's backup QB no matter how much he likes him or draft Clowney. A DE will not win you a Super Bowl, he can certainly help, but only an elite QB will get us there.

steelbtexan
01-18-2014, 11:30 AM
Texans fans seem to be in love with backup mediocre QBs. It's like they're afraid of actually drafting a franchise caliber QB. Bill O'Brien is going to draft a QB with the first pick. It's a no brainer. He's not going to go with someone else's backup QB no matter how much he likes him or draft Clowney. A DE will not win you a Super Bowl, he can certainly help, but only an elite QB will get us there.

So obviously you don't think Mallett doesn't have the ability to become a franchise QB. I've watched Mallett since high school and think he can be a franchise QB. So we will have to agree to disagree.

Goatcheese
01-18-2014, 12:23 PM
My preference between draft and other trade potentials remains Mallet. A nice honest assessment of Mallet from a July 2013 piece.

link (http://www.foxboroblog.com/2013-articles/july/why-the-patriots-should-not-trade-ryan-mallett.html)

The latter question is not one that I have a great answer for.

That's about as accurate and honest of an assessment of Mallet as what we had around here from the Case fanclub.

It reads like it was written by his agent or even his mom. "He's just like Tom Brady!" isn't exactly an unbiased description of a guy who is 1 of 4 with an INT for his career.

stingray
01-18-2014, 05:19 PM
Just saw on facebook that apparently gil brandt is tweeting that the Texans are trying to trade their 2nd round pick for mallet. Cant find the tweet.

stingray
01-18-2014, 05:23 PM
Nevermind, he apparently said "that he could see that happening"...as opposed to its in the process.

CloakNNNdagger
01-18-2014, 06:23 PM
That's about as accurate and honest of an assessment of Mallet as what we had around here from the Case fanclub.

It reads like it was written by his agent or even his mom. "He's just like Tom Brady!" isn't exactly an unbiased description of a guy who is 1 of 4 with an INT for his career.

I believe that some are reading things a little too literally. The author includes lots of the "warts" he has to overcome. But pointing out the potential. This is very little different from what we are hearing about the upcoming draft candidates.

thunderkyss
01-18-2014, 07:08 PM
I believe that some are reading things a little too literally. The author includes lots of the "warts" he has to overcome. But pointing out the potential. This is very little different from what we are hearing about the upcoming draft candidates.

Agreed. Nobody really means, "Just like Brady" when they say, "Just like Brady."

CloakNNNdagger
01-18-2014, 07:24 PM
Sorry counselor, you're going to have to "define" "superior college careers" show me the draft grades you speak of.

I'm also not sure that Bridgewater would go in the first round in the same draft as Newton, Locker, & Ponder.

How many meaningful games did Colin Kaepernick play in 2011? Or Aaron Rodgers in 2005, 2006, or 2007?

From everything I've read, Mallet was as successful as any of these QBs in this draft (save Heisman winner Manziel), ran a pro style offense with Petrino, has the size, has the arm..... but because of some off field issues, he fell in the draft.

He's had some time to mature, he's studied under the GOAT, he's been coached by the GOAT...

Very much agree. Mallet has shown no incidents of character issues since he joined the Pats. In fact he has been extremely active in youth football activities (including the Harvard football league of disabled youth) and many community services.

BruceWayne
01-18-2014, 09:55 PM
I think its time we stop experimenting with QB trades and draft a QB; let's start with a blank canvas

steelbtexan
01-18-2014, 10:08 PM
I think its time we stop experimenting with QB trades and draft a QB; let's start with a blank canvas

Throwing 4 passes isn't a blank canvas?

Having experience in BO"B"s offense isn't a positive?

Having as much or more talent than any QB in this draft isn't good enough? Don't equate Mallett to Schaub.

thunderkyss
01-18-2014, 10:30 PM
I think its time we stop experimenting with QB trades and draft a QB; let's start with a blank canvas

It's an experiment regardless what we do. Either we'll get the emaciated Bridgewater, petite Manziel, Bortles after only two years, or a really good deal on McCarron.

None of us know what any of these guys are going to do. We need to look at all our options Ryan Mallet is an option.

CloakNNNdagger
01-21-2014, 08:55 AM
Mallet was hooked up to ESPN's "Biomechanical Assessment System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0uBItsSJI)." His tangibles are amazing.

thunderkyss
01-21-2014, 09:07 AM
Mallet was hooked up to ESPN's "Biomechanical Assessment System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0uBItsSJI)." His tangibles are amazing.

He's got everything this year's QB's have..... prolific, competition, big program, & the one thing none of them have, the one thing you can't teach... size.

Well, he doesn't have the wheel's Manziel or (to a lesser degree) Bridgewater have, but the trade off is size. He's not totally worthless outside the pocket...

The biggest knock on him is that he fell in the draft. I don't understand how/why he fell. But if you were to grade him next to this current batch, I can't see how he doesn't compete favorably.

Mr teX
01-21-2014, 09:12 AM
I'd be cool if we traded for him..i liked him coming out..big tall kid with a cannon that seemed to know his football & he's only gotten better at all those things since he's been in the league. We also know Belichick doesn't keep guys around if he doesn't see anything in them.....This dude has managed to hang around on the patriots roster for more than a few years.

He's had time to sit & watch 1 of the best..He's been in a great organization so he knows how things need to go from the standpoint of winning...The fact that he & BoB have worked together also doesn't hurt either.

matts290
01-21-2014, 09:16 AM
He's got everything this year's QB's have..... prolific, competition, big program, & the one thing none of them have, the one thing you can't teach... size.

Well, he doesn't have the wheel's Manziel or (to a lesser degree) Bridgewater have, but the trade off is size. He's not totally worthless outside the pocket...

The biggest knock on him is that he fell in the draft. I don't understand how/why he fell. But if you were to grade him next to this current batch, I can't see how he doesn't compete favorably.

It was said he fell because of off field issues, but the only recorded mark he has against him was a PI arrest in 2009. Maybe he failed to impress in interviews which solidified his fall...however I just found this article that was pre-combine and before any team interviews, and it was already predicting he would fall:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/08/talk-continues-of-potential-draft-day-plunge-for-ryan-mallett/

infantrycak
01-21-2014, 09:18 AM
It was said he fell because of off field issues, but the only recorded mark he has against him was a PI arrest in 2009. Maybe he failed to impress in interviews which solidified his fall...however I just found this article that was pre-combine and before any team interviews, and it was already predicting he would fall:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/08/talk-continues-of-potential-draft-day-plunge-for-ryan-mallett/

He admitted to using drugs including coke.

matts290
01-21-2014, 09:20 AM
He admitted to using drugs including coke.

Thats right, I just remembered that too...

Obviously that hasn't been an issue since Mallet has been in the NFL though, because I would assume with even a whiff of that behavior I am sure Belichick would have kicked his ass to the street.

Texn4life
01-21-2014, 09:24 AM
There was also some criticism (stupid by the way) that Mallet was a white guy who acts black, and he had a black girlfriend. Can't believe that stuff was even brought up in 2011.

steelbtexan
01-21-2014, 09:30 AM
There was also some criticism (stupid by the way) that Mallet was a white guy who acts black, and he had a black girlfriend. Can't believe that stuff was even brought up in 2011.

This is what I heard from some people at Arkansas.

The fact that he hasn't gotten in trouble in the NFL makes the drugs and this assertion irrelevant to me.

matts290
01-21-2014, 09:38 AM
One thing I don't like about him for sure? He has no freakin' HD cut ups or highlights...was 2010 really that long ago? :pissed:

gohogs14
01-21-2014, 01:33 PM
One thing I don't like about him for sure? He has no freakin' HD cut ups or highlights...was 2010 really that long ago? :pissed:

Well there's obviously not many NFL highlights to show outside of preseason (though his best regular season throw ironically was his INT, it hit visanthe shaincoe right in the chest but he dropped it and it got intercepted)

Theres plenty of him in college...not sure if they're HD though lol

infantrycak
01-21-2014, 01:46 PM
Well there's obviously not many NFL highlights to show outside of preseason (though his best regular season throw ironically was his INT, it hit visanthe shaincoe right in the chest but he dropped it and it got intercepted)

...by us, Shiloh Keo.

CloakNNNdagger
01-21-2014, 05:02 PM
One thing I don't like about him for sure? He has no freakin' HD cut ups or highlights...was 2010 really that long ago? :pissed:

Mallet college highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OurYaWeYlQw

matts290
01-21-2014, 05:27 PM
Mallet college highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OurYaWeYlQw

Yeah thats nowhere HD though :( . I have seen him play plenty, watched him destroy us in person at Kyle field in 2009 I believe. Just would like some nice quality highlights or cutups, its easier to notice the little things QBs do when you aren't deciphering where the brown pixel that represent the football is.

gohogs14
01-21-2014, 10:23 PM
Yeah thats nowhere HD though :( . I have seen him play plenty, watched him destroy us in person at Kyle field in 2009 I believe. Just would like some nice quality highlights or cutups, its easier to notice the little things QBs do when you aren't deciphering where the brown pixel that represent the football is.

These are a little closer up to where you can see more of the QB but you can't really see the throw with the angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFDGBOYdCg0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjQ2hQZeeP8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHDmI2VI3qs (the best of the 3 but not very long unfortunately)

Marshall
01-21-2014, 11:17 PM
Texans fans seem to be in love with backup mediocre QBs. It's like they're afraid of actually drafting a franchise caliber QB. Bill O'Brien is going to draft a QB with the first pick. It's a no brainer. He's not going to go with someone else's backup QB no matter how much he likes him or draft Clowney. A DE will not win you a Super Bowl, he can certainly help, but only an elite QB will get us there.

There is not a franchise QB in every draft. This is the evaluation which is being made. Not whether we would draft one if he is there. We cannot assume there is a franchise QB just because we have the 1-1 pick.

Marshall
01-21-2014, 11:19 PM
It's an experiment regardless what we do. Either we'll get the emaciated Bridgewater, petite Manziel, Bortles after only two years, or a really good deal on McCarron.

None of us know what any of these guys are going to do. We need to look at all our options Ryan Mallet is an option.

I love the way you put it. Many will read it as THE option.

thunderkyss
01-22-2014, 02:06 PM
There was also some criticism (stupid by the way) that Mallet was a white guy who acts black, and he had a black girlfriend. Can't believe that stuff was even brought up in 2011.

If his pants hang off his ass..... I don't want him.

thunderkyss
01-22-2014, 02:21 PM
There is not a franchise QB in every draft. This is the evaluation which is being made. Not whether we would draft one if he is there. We cannot assume there is a franchise QB just because we have the 1-1 pick.

Agreed..... & we can't buy into the hype. Since we have the #1 pick & most people understand we don't have a QB, they're going to be selling these QBs as if.

We can't afford to go into next season with Case Keenum being our best chance of getting a franchise QB & when I look at Teddy Bridgewater or Johnny Manziel, I see Case Keenum. Yeah... Bridgewater played in a "pro system" last year, but so did Case Keenum.

There are differences, they're not "exactly" the same player, that's not what I'm saying. But Bridgewater appears to be closer to Case Keenum to me, than Aaron Rodgers.

matts290
01-22-2014, 02:43 PM
There is not a franchise QB in every draft. This is the evaluation which is being made. Not whether we would draft one if he is there. We cannot assume there is a franchise QB just because we have the 1-1 pick.

With the exception of last years draft, which I think it is still too early to definitively say, there has been at least one franchise QB in every draft for the past decade besides 2007 (weakest QB draft in recent memory). So I would say the chances of there being a franchise QB in this draft are much higher than not. The problem is, selecting the right one...but all of the Big 3 (Teddy, Manziel, and Bortles) show a lot of potential and this is definitely not as weak as a QB draft as some people say.

2012-Andrew Luck, Ryan Tannehill, Nick Foles, RG3 (maybe)
2011- Cam Netwon, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick
2010-Sam Bradford
2009- Matt Stafford
2008- Matty Ryan, Joe Flacco
2007- None
2006- Jay Cutler
2005- Aaron Rodgers, Alex Smith
2004- Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Big Ben, Matt Schaub (just kidding)

Marshall
01-22-2014, 02:54 PM
With the exception of last years draft, which I think it is still too early to definitively say, there has been at least one franchise QB in every draft for the past decade besides 2007 (weakest QB draft in recent memory). So I would say the chances of there being a franchise QB in this draft are much higher than not. The problem is, selecting the right one...but all of the Big 3 (Teddy, Manziel, and Bortles) show a lot of potential and this is definitely not as weak as a QB draft as some people say.


My list of Franchise QBs looks more like this:
2012-Andrew Luck(maybe)
2011- None
2010- None
2009- None
2008- None
2007- None
2006- None
2005- Aaron Rodgers
2004- Phillip Rivers, Big Ben

matts290
01-22-2014, 02:58 PM
My list of Franchise QBs looks more like this:
2012-Andrew Luck(maybe)
2011- None
2010- None
2009- None
2008- None
2007- None
2006- None
2005- Aaron Rodgers
2004- Phillip Rivers, Big Ben

Well you have a very different view of what a franchise QB is than most people...

JCTexan
01-23-2014, 02:15 AM
My list of Franchise QBs looks more like this:
2012-Andrew Luck(maybe)
2011- None
2010- None
2009- None
2008- None
2007- None
2006- None
2005- Aaron Rodgers
2004- Phillip Rivers, Big Ben

That would be considered the "elite list" of QB's. The franchise list would at least have Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Matthew Stafford & Eli Manning in it. I would probably say Colin Kaepernick, RG3, Nick Foles, Russell Wilson & Cam Newton have to do a little more to get there.

Marshall
01-23-2014, 03:17 AM
That would be considered the "elite list" of QB's. The franchise list would at least have Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Matthew Stafford & Eli Manning in it. I would probably say Colin Kaepernick, RG3, Nick Foles, Russell Wilson & Cam Newton have to do a little more to get there.

That's a reasonable perspective.

leebigeztx
01-23-2014, 03:19 AM
When mallett was dropping, I felt he was worth the risk in 3rd rd. My feeling was that if you're going to have a mid line passer, at least have one who can threaten every blade of grass. As a qb prospect and ceo of the team, he has to be a guy with very few maturity issue. As much as I like mallett,he's as green as a new qb. Remember the schaub struggles even with knowledge of the offense? The yr after I wanted foles or wilson cuz I always knew schaub was good or talented enough to lead the texans anywhere. Right now, id prefer to just draft my qb.

Marshall
01-23-2014, 03:32 AM
Mallett probably costs us the #33 at minimum. Maybe our 3rd with next year's 2nd. NE has no reason to give him up for anything less than what they want.

Hoyer hasn't really proved much at the NFL level either. Let's not change history, the Browns played well when Hoyer was QB, but he was no superstar. He was efficient. But he will also be priced high because of how the team was performing when he got injured. I think he would cost us a 3rd round pick minimum.

If we want to trade for a QB we're most likely going to have to overpay. That's just the nature of the game.

This would be true if this were not his last year under contract. The Patriots face some urgency to move him this year or risk losing him for nothing at the end of the season. Also, acquiring him would be for only one season. Both reduce his trade value for both the Patriots and the acquiring team.

Marshall
01-23-2014, 03:51 AM
Mallett for a 3rd and 5th

Trade 1-1 to the Browns for 1-4, the two Browns 3rd rd picks and a 2015 1st seems fair

Houston 1-1 (3000)

Browns 1-4 (1800)
Browns 3-68 (250)
Browns 3-79 (195)
Browns 2015 1st round - equivalent to pick 2014 2-48 (420)
Browns Total (2665)

It falls short of the general rule of thumb for trade equivalency. Usually the 1-1 gets a premium, not a discount. I'd ask for their 2-36 (540) as well. Maybe settle with 1-4, 2-36, 2015 #1 and just one of the thirds.

IDEXAN
02-06-2014, 04:49 PM
Consider what the Patriots have spent, base-salary-wise, at the backup quarterback spot over the past six years:

2009: $310,000 (Brian Hoyer)
2010: $395,000 (Hoyer)
2011: $480,000 + $375,000 (Hoyer/Ryan Mallett)
2012: $508,992 (Mallett)
2013: $642,984 (Mallett)
2014: $776,976 (Mallett)

The team ultimately moved away from Hoyer in 2012 when he had a restricted free-agent tender of $1.9 million.

As for Mallett, he enters the final year of his contract in 2014, and if he continues his development, he could position himself for a deal that aligns with the current marketplace for top backup quarterbacks, if not more. With Tom Brady signed through 2017 and still playing at a high level, one could easily envision Mallett elsewhere in 2015.

That is why, in the ever-evolving team-building process, it wouldn't be surprising if the Patriots select a quarterback in the middle to late rounds of the 2014 draft.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/115916/matt-cassel-ryan-mallett-qb-salaries
Continues his development is an interesting term because outside of insiders (like BOB), relative few are actually privy to what Mallet's progress is since he's got such limited real-game experience/tape as I understand it. Is now the time for BOB to "strike while the iron is hot" ?

thunderkyss
02-06-2014, 07:35 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/115916/matt-cassel-ryan-mallett-qb-salaries
Continues his development is an interesting term because outside of insiders (like BOB), relative few are actually privy to what Mallet's progress is since he's got such limited real-game experience/tape as I understand it. Is now the time for BOB to "strike while the iron is hot" ?

Is OB an insider? He's been away from the Patriots since Mallet's rookie season, he hasn't seen him in practice or anything. The only thing he would have to go on is Belichick, or another current coach's assessment. Godsey (TEs)??

CloakNNNdagger
02-06-2014, 08:51 PM
Is OB an insider? He's been away from the Patriots since Mallet's rookie season, he hasn't seen him in practice or anything. The only thing he would have to go on is Belichick, or another current coach's assessment. Godsey (TEs)??

I would think that Godsey would have a very good idea of how Mallet has been progressing. Obviously OB respects Godsey as an evaluator of QBs or he wouldn't have chosen him as QB coach. This whole thing could be a beautifully choreographed set of events.

gohogs14
02-09-2014, 11:38 PM
New video that was posted today of Mallett's preseason last year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWmdW4xCOA

JCTexan
02-10-2014, 12:30 AM
New video that was posted today of Mallett's preseason last year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWmdW4xCOA

There's a reason those are called highlights. The first game against Philadelphia I was thinking: "Mallet's completing every pass and looks nice out there." Then I see his stat-line was 9-18 for 97 yards. He went 10-16, 117 yards & 12-20, 137 yards in the other two. I'm not critiquing his performance because you can't be subjective when none of the negatives are presented.

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 01:08 AM
There's a reason those are called highlights. The first game against Philadelphia I was thinking: "Mallet's completing every pass and looks nice out there." Then I see his stat-line was 9-18 for 97 yards. He went 10-16, 117 yards & 12-20, 137 yards in the other two. I'm not critiquing his performance because you can't be subjective when none of the negatives are presented.

It's also preseason. His coaches were most likely not looking for the same things we are.

JCTexan
02-10-2014, 01:09 PM
It's also preseason. His coaches were most likely not looking for the same things we are.

Huh? They weren't looking for a capable QB? I wasn't knocking Mallett there. I can see the positives in that video. The TD vs. NYG was a thing of beauty. However, he also had 22 incompletions and an interception that wasn't part of the video. Like I said, none of the negatives were presented.

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 02:05 PM
Huh? They weren't looking for a capable QB? I wasn't knocking Mallett there. I can see the positives in that video. The TD vs. NYG was a thing of beauty. However, he also had 22 incompletions and an interception that wasn't part of the video. Like I said, none of the negatives were presented.

Throwing the ball away may have been the best decision. They might have seen a good throw that his receiver dropped. So his stat line may not mean... well, I think it means next to nothing.

To me, the Preseason is about seeing how well players have taken to the system. 20% completion 8 INTs & no TDs would hold less importance to me, than why he turned in those numbers.

Is he comfortable, is in control of the huddle, the offense. Is he making the right reads, the right throws, the right non-throws. Was it a bad play, how did he handle it? Is he seeing what he needs to see & how is he handling what he sees.... even if the answers are not what I want, then it's, what is it going to take to fix it.

Did we try to fix that last week?

Is there anything we need to be doing less of, anything we need to be doing more of... bottom line, can I win with this guy?

kiwitexansfan
02-10-2014, 02:36 PM
I am no QB evaluator, but when I watch that a couple of things stand out to me.

He has a strong arm, stronger than anyone on our current roster for sure.

It seems he doesn't have great footwork and throws from strange angles relying on that arm strength to get the ball where it needs to be.

JCTexan
02-10-2014, 03:28 PM
Throwing the ball away may have been the best decision. They might have seen a good throw that his receiver dropped. So his stat line may not mean... well, I think it means next to nothing.

To me, the Preseason is about seeing how well players have taken to the system. 20% completion 8 INTs & no TDs would hold less importance to me, than why he turned in those numbers.

Is he comfortable, is in control of the huddle, the offense. Is he making the right reads, the right throws, the right non-throws. Was it a bad play, how did he handle it? Is he seeing what he needs to see & how is he handling what he sees.... even if the answers are not what I want, then it's, what is it going to take to fix it.

Did we try to fix that last week?

Is there anything we need to be doing less of, anything we need to be doing more of... bottom line, can I win with this guy?

The only thing I was trying to point out with his stat line was that he had negative plays. They could have all been drops or throw aways, I don't know. However, without them, you can't objectively assess his QB play.

kiwitexansfan
02-10-2014, 03:44 PM
However, without them, you can't objectively assess his QB play.

Hahahahahaha you said objectively.

New to the board?


:kitten:

JCTexan
02-10-2014, 04:13 PM
Hahahahahaha you said objectively.

New to the board?


:kitten:

haha I've been a member since 2007. Slow learner I guess. :tiphat:

kiwitexansfan
02-10-2014, 04:51 PM
haha I've been a member since 2007. Slow learner I guess. :tiphat:

I admire your optimism.

Perhaps you should just be like this.... :scarygirl:

I think it is the boards MO

thunderkyss
02-10-2014, 06:18 PM
The only thing I was trying to point out with his stat line was that he had negative plays. They could have all been drops or throw aways, I don't know. However, without them, you can't objectively assess his QB play.

I was not disagreeing with anything you said. My comments were in addition to yours.

Playoffs
02-13-2014, 01:53 PM
Hoyer just became a reasonable possibility after his #1 supporter with the Browns was fired -- Mike Lombardi.

And I guess you could say this opens up Patriots a bit to trade Mallett with the option of acquiring Hoyer again to backup Brady... ?

All assuming the Browns draft or acquire another starting QB.

HOU-TEX
02-13-2014, 01:59 PM
Heck, why don't we throw Brock Osweiler in the group too. We've seen about as much as him play as Mallet.

:sarcasm:

gohogs14
02-13-2014, 10:56 PM
Hoyer just became a reasonable possibility after his #1 supporter with the Browns was fired -- Mike Lombardi.

And I guess you could say this opens up Patriots a bit to trade Mallett with the option of acquiring Hoyer again to backup Brady... ?

All assuming the Browns draft or acquire another starting QB.

I was thinking if they traded Mallett that they'd bring Cassell back, guess they could do either

thunderkyss
02-14-2014, 07:13 AM
I was thinking if they traded Mallett that they'd bring Cassell back, guess they could do either

Why? Neither are the future of New England, I think they've made that pretty clear.

They'll draft a guy, see if they like him. If they do, they'll keep him. If they don't, they'll move on.

CloakNNNdagger
02-14-2014, 08:13 AM
Hmmmmm:thinking:

Ryan Mallett ‏@Ryan_mallett_15 · 11h
Hello Houston! First time here not playing ball.

infantrycak
02-14-2014, 08:57 AM
Why? Neither are the future of New England, I think they've made that pretty clear.

They'll draft a guy, see if they like him. If they do, they'll keep him. If they don't, they'll move on.

They haven't expressed a judgment on either one. You can't keep potential starting quality QBs around forever as backups without paying them an egregious amount which can't be justified with a cap so you get value for them and get another cheap backup.

Playoffs
02-14-2014, 09:18 AM
Hmmmmm:thinking:

Ryan Mallett and the Minnesota Vikings (http://www.dailynorseman.com/2014/2/14/5410928/ryan-mallett-and-the-minnesota-vikings)

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/4871/some-vikings-plan-b-quarterback-options


.

Dutchrudder
02-14-2014, 09:23 AM
Hoyer just became a reasonable possibility after his #1 supporter with the Browns was fired -- Mike Lombardi.

And I guess you could say this opens up Patriots a bit to trade Mallett with the option of acquiring Hoyer again to backup Brady... ?

All assuming the Browns draft or acquire another starting QB.

Maybe... but I doubt the Texans would be interested in Hoyer. The Browns have 3 QBs under contract next year, Weeden, who is paid for in guarantees, Jason Campbell, who can be cut outright for 3.25m in savings, and Hoyer who is a cheap contract at 1.25m in 2014.

I think Campbell will be cut, they will draft a QB, and that QB will "compete" with Weeden and Hoyer in camp.

The Browns do have about 40-50m in cap space this offseason, so they could make some other moves in free agency to fill needs, and spend picks on trading up to #2 to get Johnny Football. Who knows, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if they trade up for Derek Carr....

Playoffs
02-14-2014, 09:27 AM
There's a little movement around Mallett, but nothing worth noting yet that I see...


Weslye Saunders ‏@Wes_Saunders88 Feb 7
CT scans & X-rays at 1am. at the hospital w/ @Ryan_mallett_15 and @MarkIngram22 talkin abt where we might end up #NFLCombine2011 #flashback


Take this with a grain of salt...

According to NFL insider Gil Brandt, the Texans are reportedly trying to pull off a trade with the Patriots, as they look to send their second round pick for upcoming 2014 NFL Entry Draft to the Pats for the 6"6' pocket passer Mallett.

"O'Brien likes big QBs. I could see #Texans trying to trade w #Patriots for Mallett, going diff direction in draft," NFL Insider Gil Brandt posted on his Twitter account.

http://www.latinopost.com/articles/3268/20140118/nfl-nfl-trade-rumors-nfl-trade-rumors-2014-new-england-patriots-houston-texans-new-england-patriots-roster.htm

_King_
02-14-2014, 09:48 AM
I prefer drafting bridgewater, but I won't be upset with mallet. It would certainly open up the options in the draft from my perspective.

Maybe trade for mallet and then take clowney. If u can get a franchise qb and a guy as talented as clowney I think you have to consider that.

Playoffs
02-14-2014, 09:57 AM
I would not give our 2-1 for Mallett/Hoyer, and would have to think hard about our 3-1. Those are valuable picks in this deep draft.

_King_
02-14-2014, 10:02 AM
I would not give our 2-1 for Mallett/Hoyer, and would have to think hard about our 3-1. Those are valuable picks in this deep draft.

If the coaches believe he's a franchise qb a second round pick is nothing to them.

infantrycak
02-14-2014, 10:11 AM
I would not give our 2-1 for Mallett/Hoyer, and would have to think hard about our 3-1. Those are valuable picks in this deep draft.

Yeah they are valuable picks whose purpose is? - to acquire players. If you acquire a player with 1 then I fail to see the objection other than you believe the QBs who will be available at 2.1 are clearly superior. The fundamental reality for the Texans is by draft or trade a QB MUST be acquired with one of the 1st two picks. This FA class is a non-starter as an alternative.

_King_
02-14-2014, 10:13 AM
On second thought...i wouldn't even take clowney...I move down a little and take Kyle van noy. He'd quickly expose merciless and brooks reed as frauds.

thunderkyss
02-14-2014, 11:26 AM
They haven't expressed a judgment on either one. You can't keep potential starting quality QBs around forever as backups without paying them an egregious amount which can't be justified with a cap so you get value for them and get another cheap backup.

In the post I was replying to, the poster mentioned that instead of going after Hoyer, he figured the Patriots would be more interested in bringing Cassel back.

I'm thinking like you... instead of paying either guy to stick around, they'll draft a cheap back up. That guy may or may not be the future starting QB for the Patriots. But Hoyer & Cassel definitely are not.

They may not have said as much (is that what you mean by not passing judgement), but they've clearly moved on.

thunderkyss
02-14-2014, 11:32 AM
Ryan Mallett and the Minnesota Vikings (http://www.dailynorseman.com/2014/2/14/5410928/ryan-mallett-and-the-minnesota-vikings)

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/4871/some-vikings-plan-b-quarterback-options


.

From the article.

Mallett had the reputation coming out of college of being an exceptionally talented athlete, but having some off-field baggage. He fell into the third round and was the seventh quarterback taken, despite the Patriots declaring that they had him as the highest-rated quarterback on their board, ahead of even Cam Newton (who went #1 overall that year), Andy Dalton, and others. He has thrown just four passes in his career, completing one for 17 yards and throwing an interception.

Interesting. The Patriots rated a 3rd round QB higher than four 1st round prospects.

Of course, that could just be Belichick-speak.

thunderkyss
02-14-2014, 11:40 AM
Take this with a grain of salt...

According to NFL insider Gil Brandt, the Texans are reportedly trying to pull off a trade with the Patriots, as they look to send their second round pick for upcoming 2014 NFL Entry Draft to the Pats for the 6"6' pocket passer Mallett.
http://www.latinopost.com/articles/3268/20140118/nfl-nfl-trade-rumors-nfl-trade-rumors-2014-new-england-patriots-houston-texans-new-england-patriots-roster.htm

So.. you've got Rick Smith on one side of the table & Bill Belichick on the other......



I don't think this will end well for us.

_King_
02-14-2014, 12:30 PM
Not going to lie. That little sports science deal on mallet got me kind if excited.

Not sure what to make of his game film though.

Dutchrudder
02-14-2014, 12:55 PM
From the article.



Interesting. The Patriots rated a 3rd round QB higher than four 1st round prospects.

Of course, that could just be Belichick-speak.

I think it's more of "Hey, if you want this guy, you better pony-up the picks!"

We have seen the Patriots and Eagles do this recently with Cassel and Kolb. They develop a mid-round pick into a decent talent, and then trade him away for a 2nd round pick and some throw-ins. There was even some talk a few offseasons ago of teams willing to give a 3rd for Mike Kafka. I think it's a great idea, especially if you have a coach with a good history of developing QBs.

TheIronDuke
02-14-2014, 12:55 PM
Why give up a high pick for Mallet, who is completely unproven, in the last year of his contract? Makes absolutely no sense at all to me when we can use a second of our own on a QB if we're not sold on Bridgewater or Manziel and have them under team control for awhile without a huge cap hit. Are we the only team who can't try to draft a freaking franchise QB in the NFL? Why are we only happy picking up other team's back-ups to start?

And if we trade for him and he's awesome, then what? We franchise him when we're in cap trouble? Alternately we can sign him after we trade for him but I doubt he'd want to do that without testing the market.

infantrycak
02-14-2014, 01:06 PM
Why give up a high pick for Mallet, who is completely unproven, in the last year of his contract? Makes absolutely no sense at all to me when we can use a second of our own on a QB if we're not sold on Bridgewater or Manziel and have them under team control for awhile without a huge cap hit. Are we the only team who can't try to draft a freaking franchise QB in the NFL? Why are we only happy picking up other team's back-ups to start?

And if we trade for him and he's awesome, then what? We franchise him when we're in cap trouble? Alternately we can sign him after we trade for him but I doubt he'd want to do that without testing the market.

Look at the drafts when this is being contemplated. 2007 was JaMarcus Russell, Kolb, Beck, Stanton. Schaub was better than any of them.

There is no reason they can't do a new deal rather than running out his rookie contract and having to rely on the franchise tag. Hopefully it is a smartly structured deal if it happens. He's set to make $777k under his contract. Bump him to a contract without substantial dead money if he doesn't pan out - something like a $3 mil signing bonus, $2mil 2014, roster bonus 2015 and three more years on the contract.

JCTexan
02-14-2014, 01:07 PM
Why give up a high pick for Mallet, who is completely unproven, in the last year of his contract? Makes absolutely no sense at all to me when we can use a second of our own on a QB if we're not sold on Bridgewater or Manziel and have them under team control for awhile without a huge cap hit. Are we the only team who can't try to draft a freaking franchise QB in the NFL? Why are we only happy picking up other team's back-ups to start?

And if we trade for him and he's awesome, then what? We franchise him when we're in cap trouble? Alternately we can sign him after we trade for him but I doubt he'd want to do that without testing the market.

It would be the same type of deal that we made with Atlanta for Schaub. It simply won't happen if there is not a contract in place with Mallett before the trade is finished. 2.1 is not a lot to give up if you think Mallett is better than any of the QB's in this draft (which I'm not sure he is).

TheIronDuke
02-14-2014, 02:08 PM
Alright guys, I guess it's not as stupid as I thought. I just don't think this dude can move around very much and is dumb as a box of rocks but I will once again have to put my faith that BOB knows what he's doing. I still think Bridgewater or Manziel would be better but I know f all about it.

thunderkyss
02-14-2014, 02:13 PM
Why give up a high pick for Mallet, who is completely unproven, in the last year of his contract? Makes absolutely no sense at all to me when we can use a second of our own on a QB if we're not sold on Bridgewater or Manziel and have them under team control for awhile without a huge cap hit. Are we the only team who can't try to draft a freaking franchise QB in the NFL? Why are we only happy picking up other team's back-ups to start?

And if we trade for him and he's awesome, then what? We franchise him when we're in cap trouble? Alternately we can sign him after we trade for him but I doubt he'd want to do that without testing the market.

I don't care. As long as we get a good QB that can lead this team to a Super Bowl. I don't care if we draft him, trade for him, or coach up Keenum/Yates.

IDEXAN
02-14-2014, 02:17 PM
Why give up a high pick for Mallet, who is completely unproven, in the last year of his contract? Makes absolutely no sense at all to me when we can use a second of our own on a QB if we're not sold on Bridgewater or Manziel and have them under team control for awhile without a huge cap hit.

If O'Brien has spent a year or two with Mallet, watched him practice, watched him interact with teammates & coachs, even watched him play quite a bit if only in a preseason environment, you eliminate much of the uncertainty that would always be there with any rookie QB. And obviously it also gives a coach the opportunity to eliminate a prospect, which apparently is no longer an option for O'brien. On the other hand, use a 1.1 on a QB and your franchise is saddled with that player indefinitely no matter how bad he might turn out to be. So if O'Brien likes Mallet, going ahead with him makes total sense IMO.

Are we the only team who can't try to draft a freaking franchise QB in the NFL? Why are we only happy picking up other team's back-ups to start?

99.9 % + of QBs who ever lived are back-ups to Tom Brady.

thunderkyss
02-14-2014, 02:41 PM
In 2006 I wanted to draft Vince Young. I would have been happy with Jay Cutler, but that would have been seen as a huge reach at 1-1.

In 2007, I'd have been happy with Brady Quin... but I didn't mind Schaub (who had a bit of a buzz about him from 2006) & Amobi (yup, I'm a homer).

In 2008, I didn't really care for any of the QBs. We didn't have a shot at Ryan... could have had Flacco. I haven't been a Flacco fan since he's been in the league, that Super Bowl run he had did impress me. Then there was 2013. We got Duane Brown in 2008. I'm ok with that. I don't believe Flacco would have won a Super Bowl in Houston with no Duane Brown.

In 2009, I didn't even think about QBs, but looking back, I'd have been happy with Stafford or Freeman. I think Kubiak could have won some games with Stafford/Freeman. That would have been nice. But we were married at the time. Cushing, our pick in 2009, won DRoTY twice that year.

2010, I'd have liked to taken a flyer on Colt McCoy. But the Browns took him in the third. We did get H-Town native Earl Mitchell though. None of the QBs from this class have done anything worth talking about.

2011, This was the year to get a QB. Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Collin Kaepernick. But there were a few duds in there too, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder. We did get Yates though. Mallet was also in this draft.

2012, even better than 2011. Andrew Luck, RG3, Russell Wilson, Foles, Cousins, Tannehill (kinda). Notable duds: Weeden

2013, more blah..... Geno Smith & Ej Manuel. Or Ej Manuel & Geno Smith..... probably really don't matter.

2014, supposedly better than 2013. Aaron Murray & Aj McCarron, two of the more prolific passers from the 2013 season are burried under the likes of Derek Carr, Taj Boyd, & Jimmy Garoppolo, & they aren't even the three "best" QBs in the draft.

Does sound odd that we're going to skip QB altogether in the deepest QB class in a long time.

_King_
02-14-2014, 02:50 PM
Maybe OB like what's on the roster at QB more than some people think.

Dutchrudder
02-14-2014, 03:35 PM
I think people are over-valuing Ryan Mallet's trade value. I don't think it would require 2-1 to get him. I think 3-1 would be enough, due to the deep QB class. Think about it from the Pats' standpoint. Whatever pick you give them, they are going to need to draft another backup QB, and this is the year to do it. The have 7 picks, and will likely spend one on a new backup QB, who will be heir apparent to Tom Brady, given the 4 year deal a rookie gets.

Now, if I'm the GM of the Pats, I'd say, let's find our next QB in this draft or next, because in 3-4 years, Brady will retire. Is Mallet the guy? Probably not, so if you can get 3-1 or 4-1 for him, do it. He's going to walk next season, and only give you a compensatory pick at best, and only if you don't sign some good free agents. Sell him while you can for at least 4-1, which is certainly better than the potential compensatory pick you get in return, and find a backup to start training. Maybe the Pats go QB in the 1st, and trade up to take a guy like Teddy or Bortles if they fall. Maybe they take a Murray, McCarron or Garapolo in the end of the 2nd. Who knows, but I know they have to be looking at QB very closely this year next.

If I'm the Pats, I'd take 3-1 for Mallet and not look back. 4-1 would be acceptable, but only on draft day, and only if no one else is biting. 2-1, absolutely, but only a fool would pay that much for him. If I'm the Texans, giving up 4-1 for Mallet would be fine, he's better than anything you will find at that point in this draft. 3-1 is a bit more difficult to say, but probably reasonable.

Playoffs
02-14-2014, 11:14 PM
Yeah they are valuable picks whose purpose is?

To be applied appropriately. If the Redskins can't get more than a 3rd round pick for a tested Kirk Cousins -- which is what I've been reading is the real world value today -- then that's the high bar for me. I don't think Mallett is a franchise QB secretly hidden away on the Patriots bench anymore than Matt Cassel was. But he might be our best bet for a season or two draft value wise.

This is a deep draft in a lot of areas. A 3rd rounder this year might be greater value than a 2nd rounder last year. If the Patriots think Mallett is all that, then lets do a prove-it deal -- conditional 2015 pick(s) based on some performance standard.

I must add that imo we have a lot of personnel changes to make in starters and more in depth. I don't see this as the quick turnaround project Mr. McNair does. Hoping I'm wrong, but...