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76Texan
01-03-2014, 11:18 AM
The NFL had released the tentative order of the draft:
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/NFL-releases-Tentative-2014-Draft-Order/d93dc478-646e-4bfd-bc74-566e5c08a6e3

Five or six teams might be looking to draft a QB early.

These are the QB prospect ranking from CBS sports:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/QB

Remember that last year, there were a total of 3 QBs drafted in the first three rounds.

This year, there are 8 QBs graded as third rounder or higher.
And that doesn't include Mariotta or Hundley who have yet to declare their intention for real.

In my opinion, all these guys have little to big warts.

If I could cherry pick, I would trade down to take a guy like Mettenberger at 80 and or Murray at 160, Miller at 174, and then trade away for as many future draft picks as possible to target 3 or 4 QBs (not even counting Mariotta and Hundley) in 2015 or 2016. They all received high grades coming out of high school: Jameis Winston (Fl St.), Hackenberg (Penn St.), Jacob Park (Georgia bound), and Keller Chryst (Stanford bound).

The 3 guys here received the same grade as Winston (84) or higher.
Winston just won the Heissman and he looks the part.

There are 3 or 4 more guys who received higher grade than Winston in this HS class alone.

I say let the QB-starved teams get hooked for a few years with the current prospects in the upcoming draft and position yourself for better percentage in the near future.

Build both trenches and find stability in ST.
The Pats have been successful with this formula.
The Niners and Broncos are current models.

JMO, of course.

TheIronDuke
01-03-2014, 11:31 AM
Are you not aware that we ARE a QB starved team? Are you not also aware that the 9ers and Pats are only able to build the trenches because they ALREADY have a QB and in the Pats case and the Broncos case, have a freaking all-world QB? And are you really looking at friggin HIGH SCHOOL players right now? WTF?

76Texan
01-03-2014, 11:47 AM
Are you not aware that we ARE a QB starved team? Are you not also aware that the 9ers and Pats are only able to build the trenches because they ALREADY have a QB and in the Pats case and the Broncos case, have a freaking all-world QB? And are you really looking at friggin HIGH SCHOOL players right now? WTF?

The Niners and the broncos were building their trenches (by that I mean both sides of the ball) before Manning and Kaepernick.

TheIronDuke
01-03-2014, 11:48 AM
The Niners and the broncos were building their trenches (by that I mean both sides of the ball) before Manning and Kaepernick.

And they also had a first round pick QB on their roster while they did!

76Texan
01-03-2014, 11:50 AM
The Broncos, for example, traded away Cutler, and used those picks smartly.

76Texan
01-03-2014, 11:52 AM
And they also had a first round pick QB on their roster while they did!

Alex Smith? Who the new regime likes so much they couldn't wait to trade him away for a raw prospect in Kaepernick?

stingray
01-03-2014, 11:54 AM
The Broncos defense is awful, they wouldnt even smell .500 with an average qb.

TheIronDuke
01-03-2014, 11:54 AM
The Broncos, for example, traded away Cutler, and used those picks smartly.

They also used a first round pick in drafting Cutler as well as used a first round pick on Tim Tebow. We don't have a QB who we can trade for picks like the Broncos did. We can't even use a supplemental pick we get from losing Mario Williams on anyone we can keep on the roster.

TheIronDuke
01-03-2014, 11:55 AM
Alex Smith? Who the new regime likes so much they couldn't wait to trade him away for a raw prospect in Kaepernick?

I guess you're forgetting that he took them to the playoffs and lost his spot due to Kaep (a second round pick) playing well while he was injured and then was traded for picks? The same QB who is taking the Chiefs to the playoffs this weekend?

LikeMike
01-03-2014, 11:57 AM
What you are suggesting means we are rebuilding. After drafting a QB it usually takes at least a year or two until he can really contribute - by that time our veterans (Cushing, Manning, JoJo, Smith, Myers, OD, AJ...) might not be on the team anymore or past their prime. Basically it would be a "let`s cash in on all we have and get ready fo the 2017 season".

I think this team is more looking to go the Chiefs/Colts way: get a new QB and new coaches, get some quick fixes for the other holes and look to compete right away. I also think, that the team has the talent to compete outside of QB - last season we got sucked into a downward spiral of suckiness and the coaches were clueless how to stop it. We also had some pretty bad injuries.

Get a QB, a RT (might already be on the team), an OLB and I think we are already looking decent. If we get a real playmaker at QB and OLB we are looking very good...

TheIronDuke
01-03-2014, 12:04 PM
There's not a playoff team in the league who is built on only building the trenches and throwing a scrub out at QB who they picked up off a crap heap. The Chiefs even had to give up picks for Alex Smith, Seattle gave up picks for Matt Flynn and ended up drafting Russell Wilson as well. Hell, the Pats have used a higher pick on a QB than we have since we drafted David Carr! Only the Broncos got lucky getting Manning while we had our thumbs up our butt with Schaub but they still used 2 first round picks on QB's in the past 8 years.

Playoffs
01-03-2014, 12:06 PM
I'm not opposed to moving into future higher quality QB drafts, but you have to address the position in some manner right now.

Each passing year is lost years from your good players on your team right now.

Regardless, I'll let OB make his own choices for his position group.

TexansFTW
01-03-2014, 12:15 PM
I guess you're forgetting that he took them to the playoffs and lost his spot due to Kaep (a second round pick) playing well while he was injured and then was traded for picks? The same QB who is taking the Chiefs to the playoffs this weekend?

I've got to rep you here for what you've said this whole thread. It's just amazing to me when 2 different people can see the same sunset and one sees dark and the other sees light.

The people that see the dark have this amazing plan to start scouting maternity wards for QBs and their Elementary School Line Backer brothers.

The people that see the light see one of the best WRs to play football in the last 10 years time running out. They see an All-World DE. They see a pretty bad-A RB. They see a linebacking core with injury concerns that needs some work. They see a decent secondary. But they see nothing at THE MOST IMPORTANT position in football. Just a stupid guy punching the ground and crying as he collects a $11 Million Dollar Check as he is pushed out of the building.

They see the light fading on this picture though. And they KNOW that waiting until the year 2025 when Jesus comes down from the heavens throwing thunderbolts at the City of Indianapolis and breathing life into Peyton Manning and Tom Brady's womb at the same time is NOT the appropriate plan of action. I just pray that Rick Smith still sees the light and hasn't completely gone to the darkness yet.

rmartin65
01-03-2014, 12:29 PM
This is insane. I heard this first grader down the street has an absolute CANNON for an arm. I am holding off on drafting a QB until he is eligible. Unless his younger brother looks better. Kid is only 1 week old, but nobody lays in a crib like this kid. Future HOF GOAT AINEC.

TheIronDuke
01-03-2014, 12:33 PM
I've got to rep you here for what you've said this whole thread. It's just amazing to me when 2 different people can see the same sunset and one sees dark and the other sees light.

The people that see the dark have this amazing plan to start scouting maternity wards for QBs and their Elementary School Line Backer brothers.

The people that see the light see one of the best WRs to play football in the last 10 years time running out. They see an All-World DE. They see a pretty bad-A RB. They see a linebacking core with injury concerns that needs some work. They see a decent secondary. But they see nothing at THE MOST IMPORTANT position in football. Just a stupid guy punching the ground and crying as he collects a $11 Million Dollar Check as he is pushed out of the building.

They see the light fading on this picture though. And they KNOW that waiting until the year 2025 when Jesus comes down from the heavens throwing thunderbolts at the City of Indianapolis and breathing life into Peyton Manning and Tom Brady's womb at the same time is NOT the appropriate plan of action. I just pray that Rick Smith still sees the light and hasn't completely gone to the darkness yet.

Thanks man and I repped this post as well. I really just can't believe someone who's a Texans fan could have watched us play this year and not see that we need a QB.

Yes, we need a RT and a few picks on defense. But, my god, people are saying we should trade a pick for a scrub back-up like Mallett or sign some journeyman QB while we have a #1 overall in a pretty good QB draft class. When I see someone talk about how good the high school QB's are looking I just want to slam my head into a wall. I just don't know what to think anymore, I'm glad that there seems to be more rational posters here than crazy people.

bOODRO87
01-03-2014, 12:34 PM
This is insane. I heard this first grader down the street has an absolute CANNON for an arm. I am holding off on drafting a QB until he is eligible. Unless his younger brother looks better. Kid is only 1 week old, but nobody lays in a crib like this kid. Future HOF GOAT AINEC.

http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/files/2012/01/peewee-football-player1.jpg

rmartin65
01-03-2014, 12:37 PM
http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/files/2012/01/peewee-football-player1.jpg

THAT'S THE KID!!!!

Getting around the caps lock block. Actually, does that even exist on this board? The world is full of wonders...

76Texan
01-03-2014, 12:42 PM
Instant gratification is hard to come by.
You need to have a short term goal, an intermediate goal, and a long range goal.
Obviously, you need some luck, but making a plan based on luck has a very low return percentage.

Sometimes I do feel (just like 99% of us do), that it's almost impossible to change one another's opinion, but I like engaging conversations.

I go back and read old posts, some I think have a good point.
The different opinions should make for a lively discussion, and not to harbor ill-wills.

One thing I can say is that I will listen (read) ( to) your opinion and give it the thought.
I only hope and want the same respect that I give out.
Cool?

Texecutioner
01-03-2014, 12:45 PM
THAT'S THE KID!!!!

Getting around the caps lock block. Actually, does that even exist on this board? The world is full of wonders...

Yeah but if we can get that kid we will have an elite QB for probably like 12 years.

b0ng
01-03-2014, 12:46 PM
The NFL had released the tentative order of the draft:
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/NFL-releases-Tentative-2014-Draft-Order/d93dc478-646e-4bfd-bc74-566e5c08a6e3

Five or six teams might be looking to draft a QB early.

These are the QB prospect ranking from CBS sports:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/QB

Remember that last year, there were a total of 3 QBs drafted in the first three rounds.

This year, there are 8 QBs graded as third rounder or higher.
And that doesn't include Mariotta or Hundley who have yet to declare their intention for real.

In my opinion, all these guys have little to big warts.

If I could cherry pick, I would trade down to take a guy like Mettenberger at 80 and or Murray at 160, Miller at 174, and then trade away for as many future draft picks as possible to target 3 or 4 QBs (not even counting Mariotta and Hundley) in 2015 or 2016. They all received high grades coming out of high school: Jameis Winston (Fl St.), Hackenberg (Penn St.), Jacob Park (Georgia bound), and Keller Chryst (Stanford bound).

The 3 guys here received the same grade as Winston (84) or higher.
Winston just won the Heissman and he looks the part.

There are 3 or 4 more guys who received higher grade than Winston in this HS class alone.

I say let the QB-starved teams get hooked for a few years with the current prospects in the upcoming draft and position yourself for better percentage in the near future.

Build both trenches and find stability in ST.
The Pats have been successful with this formula.
The Niners and Broncos are current models.

JMO, of course.

You can't write off an entire draft class at a position group before you get to the senior bowl/east west shrine game, nfl combine, and pro days, even if they weren't graded out as impressively as others at the HS level. This seem like a thread where you want people to talk up Bridgewater/Manziel so you can repeatedly shoot them down the advice of waiting until next years/2016 draft because those QB's are better (Not even counting that 2 of them have yet to take a snap at the college level).

Either way you have to evaluate the class before you make rash decisions, you may not be in love with a player right now (or maybe you are but you want to make sure), making a decision about who you're taking #1 in January is silly because new information will be coming out from now until the draft actually happens.

76Texan
01-03-2014, 12:46 PM
This is insane. I heard this first grader down the street has an absolute CANNON for an arm. I am holding off on drafting a QB until he is eligible. Unless his younger brother looks better. Kid is only 1 week old, but nobody lays in a crib like this kid. Future HOF GOAT AINEC.

Haha, Martin who wanted old man Weeden!
That's what instant gratification gives you my friend.
(For those who don't know, I like Martin as part of the three amigos in the draft section for quite a long time now .)

Blake
01-03-2014, 12:48 PM
A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush. Take Teddy B. now and hope we have our 10 year stud QB.

WolverineFan
01-03-2014, 12:48 PM
This trenches vs. QB stuff is really starting to get ridiculous.

I get it, some of you don't like the QB's this year and that's fine. But trenches don't win championships in the NFL. QB's do. We can't just sit around building up the "trenches" forever waiting for "that QB" to come along before we pull the trigger. Do you want to be the Cleveland Browns? They have one of the best OL and front-seven's in the league. How's that working out?

Texian
01-03-2014, 12:50 PM
This trenches vs. QB stuff is really starting to get ridiculous.

I get it, some of you don't like the QB's this year and that's fine. But trenches don't win championships in the NFL. QB's do. We can't just sit around building up the "trenches" forever waiting for "that QB" to come along before we pull the trigger. Do you want to be the Cleveland Browns? They have one of the best OL and front-seven's in the league. How's that working out?

Ask Matt Ryan or Eli Manning.

rmartin65
01-03-2014, 12:53 PM
Haha, Martin who wanted old man Weeden!
That's what instant gratification gives you my friend.
(For those who don't know, I like Martin as part of the three amigos in the draft section for quite a long time now .)

When did I say I wanted Weedon? That does not ring a bell. Seriously, if you have a link I would appreciate it. I will be doing some searches myself.

Honestly, I don't think you can pass on a good QB just because a guy later might be better. It is the shiny new toy syndrome- every future class looks better than the current one.

I have to watch more film on Bridgewater. I have not scouted much this year, and while I like what I have read about him, I am not completely sold yet.

Playoffs
01-03-2014, 01:01 PM
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
#Texans owner Bob McNair said he's open to trading out of the No. 1 overall pick http://ow.ly/sfxpV

Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
Rick Smith not opposed to trading down. "We’ll get a good player or we’ll move and get good value for the pick and improve our football team."

WolverineFan
01-03-2014, 01:02 PM
Ask Matt Ryan.

The same Matt Ryan who went to the NFC Championship game last year? Their offense was decimated by injuries this year and they lost their best DL in FA and their other best to injury.

That team was awful when he got there. They went QB first and then built the roster around him. The problem is they did not do an adequate job building up the trenches after they found their QB (1 OL and 1 DL drafted in the first 2 rounds since they drafted Ryan).

However, before this year when it all fell apart, they went 56-24 the previous 5 years. I'm sure Ryan had a lot more to do with that than Sam Baker.

WolverineFan
01-03-2014, 01:04 PM
Ask Matt Ryan or Eli Manning.

LOL both of those guys were drafted top 3. Both teams drafted their QB and then built up the roster around them. You are not helping your case here at all.

Texian
01-03-2014, 01:38 PM
The same Matt Ryan who went to the NFC Championship game last year? Their offense was decimated by injuries this year and they lost their best DL in FA and their other best to injury.

That team was awful when he got there. They went QB first and then built the roster around him. The problem is they did not do an adequate job building up the trenches after they found their QB (1 OL and 1 DL drafted in the first 2 rounds since they drafted Ryan).

However, before this year when it all fell apart, they went 56-24 the previous 5 years. I'm sure Ryan had a lot more to do with that than Sam Baker.

LOL both of those guys were drafted top 3. Both teams drafted their QB and then built up the roster around them. You are not helping your case here at all.

and both are bottom 10 teams because of .......their trenches

Mr teX
01-03-2014, 01:52 PM
The same Matt Ryan who went to the NFC Championship game last year? Their offense was decimated by injuries this year and they lost their best DL in FA and their other best to injury.

That team was awful when he got there. They went QB first and then built the roster around him. The problem is they did not do an adequate job building up the trenches after they found their QB (1 OL and 1 DL drafted in the first 2 rounds since they drafted Ryan).

However, before this year when it all fell apart, they went 56-24 the previous 5 years. I'm sure Ryan had a lot more to do with that than Sam Baker.

What's more is that Ryan was viewed kinda in the same way as Bridgewater is now when he was coming out...people were unsure about his arm strength and wondered if he was worth the #1 pick at the time....

WolverineFan
01-03-2014, 01:59 PM
What's more is that Ryan was viewed kinda in the same way as Bridgewater is now when he was coming out...people were unsure about his arm strength and wondered if he was worth the #1 pick at the time....

I've seen people compare him to Ryan and Rodgers. Neither guy wowed you with his physical skill set, but their mental acumen for the game put them at another level.

76Texan
01-03-2014, 02:36 PM
Yeah but if we can get that kid we will have an elite QB for probably like 12 years.

This cannot be understated. Scouting now a day is done to the utmost (if you're a smart franchise.)

As a franchise, you're limited by the cap.
The smart franchise looks elsewhere to spend the money.
Leave no we stone unturned.
Cultivate your rapport with these possible prospects.

Be ahead of the trend

michaelm
01-03-2014, 03:30 PM
To the question in the OP:


If you think there is a franchise QB in the draft, take him at 1-1.
If you think there is no franchise QB, attempt to trade down.
If you can't trade down, take BPA. I don't have a clear cut BPA at this point.

Between Clowney and Mathews:
Clowney: highest ceiling, lowest floor
Mathews: lowest ceiling, highest floor (I think)

I guess it depends on if you want to swing as hard as you can for the fence, or shorten up your swing and try to hit a line drive for a base hit.

F-it, I'd probably swing for the fence.

Texian
01-03-2014, 03:57 PM
What's more is that Ryan was viewed kinda in the same way as Bridgewater is now when he was coming out...people were unsure about his arm strength and wondered if he was worth the #1 pick at the time....

MY knock on Ryan was he threw a lot of INTs. I think his TD to INT ratio was than 2 to 1.

LikeMike
01-03-2014, 04:33 PM
This cannot be understated. Scouting now a day is done to the utmost (if you're a smart franchise.)

As a franchise, you're limited by the cap.
The smart franchise looks elsewhere to spend the money.
Leave no we stone unturned.
Cultivate your rapport with these possible prospects.

Be ahead of the trend

But that is no use, if you can`t get the QB you want. We probably won`t get a top 5 pick in the next 3 years if we don`t trade away major pieces to go in full rebuild mode. Other teams scout as well, and if there is a QB we like, chances are other teams do so as well. If there is another Luck, it will be basically impossible to get him. That is why looking for your QB in the future is so risky - not only can they turn out as a bust, you also only have a very slim chance to grab them.

Of course the Texans shouldn`t draft Bridgewater, Manziel or Bortles if they don`t think they could turn into franchise QBs - but if they do, they shouldn`t look elsewhere just because they like one of next years QBs better.

kiwitexansfan
01-03-2014, 04:39 PM
To the question in the OP:


If you think there is a franchise QB in the draft, take him at 1-1.
If you think there is no franchise QB, attempt to trade down.
If you can't trade down, take BPA. I don't have a clear cut BPA at this point.

Between Clowney and Mathews:
Clowney: highest ceiling, lowest floor
Mathews: lowest ceiling, highest floor (I think)

I guess it depends on if you want to swing as hard as you can for the fence, or shorten up your swing and try to hit a line drive for a base hit.

F-it, I'd probably swing for the fence.

I'm in that mode too.

I'm happy to go big or go home in this draft, take a few punts on potential and talent.

Can't make things any worse right?

Corrosion
01-03-2014, 04:54 PM
The Niners and the broncos were building their trenches (by that I mean both sides of the ball) before Manning and Kaepernick.

The Bronco's have a pathetic OL .... Riddled with injury. Manning just makes them appear serviceable because of how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands.


A better comparison might be Carolina taking two DL early in last years draft giving them a dominant defense while Cam Newton is playing at a level similar to last year but getting most of the credit for the W's generated by that defense.

Marshall
01-03-2014, 04:55 PM
This trenches vs. QB stuff is really starting to get ridiculous.

I get it, some of you don't like the QB's this year and that's fine. But trenches don't win championships in the NFL. QB's do. We can't just sit around building up the "trenches" forever waiting for "that QB" to come along before we pull the trigger. Do you want to be the Cleveland Browns? They have one of the best OL and front-seven's in the league. How's that working out?

A Great Foundation without a pretty house is of little use, but a pretty house without a strong foundation doesn't stay that way very long.

We only want a strong foundation so that the pretty house can be around a while and not go the way of past pretty houses.

TheIronDuke
01-03-2014, 05:00 PM
The Bronco's have a pathetic OL .... Riddled with injury. Manning just makes them appear serviceable because of how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands.


A better comparison might be Carolina taking two DL early in last years draft giving them a dominant defense while Cam Newton is playing at a level similar to last year but getting most of the credit for the W's generated by that defense.

But then all one would have to do is point out that Cam Newton was a #1 overall pick, proving you can't win with complete garbage at QB and that every team in the playoffs is there with a QB taken high in the draft (besides NE of course.)

Corrosion
01-03-2014, 05:10 PM
But then all one would have to do is point out that Cam Newton was a #1 overall pick, proving you can't win with complete garbage at QB and that every team in the playoffs is there with a QB taken high in the draft (besides NE of course.)

But .... Newton has been garbage at QB , not Matt Schaub / Case Keenum garbage but garbage none the less , at least when compared to the rest of the playoff QB's.

Corrosion
01-03-2014, 05:15 PM
As for 76's main point in this thread .... Moving out of #1 while stockpiling future picks is a viable alternative , especially should you feel that none of the QB's in this draft class are guys that will end up in the discussion of the top handful at their position in the future , guys able to carry a franchise.


I'm still undecided on what to do (trade or spend) with the #1 pick or who to take with that pick as I think each player being considered has warts that would give me pause in picking them at 1:1.

mussop
01-03-2014, 06:41 PM
Take the player who will have the biggest impact. If that's Clowney I'm down. That means he answered all the questions the righ way and the. Laches believe they can coach him up. I believe having Watt and Cushing and even Swearinger will keep Clowney in line. It's exciting to even think about.

If we decide to take one of the QB's I'm fine with that too.

Mr teX
01-05-2014, 09:16 PM
Take the player who will have the biggest impact. If that's Clowney I'm down. That means he answered all the questions the righ way and the. Laches believe they can coach him up. I believe having Watt and Cushing and even Swearinger will keep Clowney in line. It's exciting to even think about.

If we decide to take one of the QB's I'm fine with that too.

Watching that chiefs colts game is the reason u take the top qb over the other top position players if the grades for each prospects are in the same ball park.

As good as Houston and Hali were rushing the passer all year, Luck basically made them non factors by working the pocket, getting the ball out fast, and running when he had too.

Simply put, very good qb play trumps exceptional pass rushing and pretty much everything else. So while everyone is getting amped at the thought of Watt and Clowney on the same d-line rushing the passer, take heed of what happened saturday. KC's secondary got exposed once the pressure of houston and hali was nuetralized.

SW H-TOWN
01-05-2014, 09:46 PM
Watching that chiefs colts game is the reason u take the top qb over the other top position players if the grades for each prospects are in the same ball park.

As good as Houston and Hali were rushing the passer all year, Luck basically made them non factors by working the pocket, getting the ball out fast, and running when he had too.

Simply put, very good qb play trumps exceptional pass rushing and pretty much everything else. So while everyone is getting amped at the thought of Watt and Clowney on the same d-line rushing the passer, take heed of what happened saturday. KC's secondary got exposed once the pressure of houston and hali was nuetralized.

That is dead on, MSR. I would go with the top QB if our new HC sees one that he deems worthy of the 1st pick. O'Brien worked wonders with Matt McGloin at Penn State so I am eager to see what he could do with a Bridgewater or Bortles. IMO once he watches the Louisville vs Miami game and gets Bridgewater on the dry erase board it will be game shot match. QB driven league.

GuerillaBlack
01-05-2014, 11:26 PM
The Bronco's have a pathetic OL .... Riddled with injury. Manning just makes them appear serviceable because of how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands.


A better comparison might be Carolina taking two DL early in last years draft giving them a dominant defense while Cam Newton is playing at a level similar to last year but getting most of the credit for the W's generated by that defense.

But then he has game winning drives every week. He has played better than last year.

bhsman
01-05-2014, 11:50 PM
Watching that chiefs colts game is the reason u take the top qb over the other top position players if the grades for each prospects are in the same ball park.

As good as Houston and Hali were rushing the passer all year, Luck basically made them non factors by working the pocket, getting the ball out fast, and running when he had too.

Simply put, very good qb play trumps exceptional pass rushing and pretty much everything else. So while everyone is getting amped at the thought of Watt and Clowney on the same d-line rushing the passer, take heed of what happened saturday. KC's secondary got exposed once the pressure of houston and hali was nuetralized.

Two problems with that assessment:

1 - There isn't a Luck/Newton-type prospect, especially with Hundley going back to school

2 - The Chiefs loss had far more to do with them losing several Pro-Bowlers throughout the course of the game, particularly Brandon Flowers whose loss allowed TY Hilton to blow up later in the game

If anything, Luck got, well, lucky. He threw three turnovers (even the third one that was weird was throw behind the receiver and allowed it to become jumbled in the first place) and his rushing touchdown was a freak play not unlike Watt's forced-fumble-into-Patriots-TD from last year.

If anything, watching Alex Smith out-play Luck made me more open to installing the Pistol and drafting a guy like Manziel.

mussop
01-06-2014, 12:08 AM
Two problems with that assessment:

1 - There isn't a Luck/Newton-type prospect, especially with Hundley going back to school

2 - The Chiefs loss had far more to do with them losing several Pro-Bowlers throughout the course of the game, particularly Brandon Flowers whose loss allowed TY Hilton to blow up later in the game

If anything, Luck got, well, lucky. He threw three turnovers (even the third one that was weird was throw behind the receiver and allowed it to become jumbled in the first place) and his rushing touchdown was a freak play not unlike Watt's forced-fumble-into-Patriots-TD from last year.

If anything, watching Alex Smith out-play Luck made me more open to installing the Pistol and drafting a guy like Manziel.

You beat me to it.

Trail.Blazr
01-06-2014, 07:50 AM
I wasn't hoping to get a QB with the first pick, until I saw this list....

QB's alive in the playoffs:
Luck, Rivers, Brady, P. Manning, Kaepernik, Newton, Brees, Wilson

Regarding any post season aspirations I may have that list is pretty telling.

Mr teX
01-06-2014, 09:07 AM
Two problems with that assessment:

1 - There isn't a Luck/Newton-type prospect, especially with Hundley going back to school

2 - The Chiefs loss had far more to do with them losing several Pro-Bowlers throughout the course of the game, particularly Brandon Flowers whose loss allowed TY Hilton to blow up later in the game

If anything, Luck got, well, lucky. He threw three turnovers (even the third one that was weird was throw behind the receiver and allowed it to become jumbled in the first place) and his rushing touchdown was a freak play not unlike Watt's forced-fumble-into-Patriots-TD from last year.

If anything, watching Alex Smith out-play Luck made me more open to installing the Pistol and drafting a guy like Manziel.

Not even close sir... Luck's defense had already given up 24 pts before he threw his 1st int....At that point, they were just trying to avoid getting blown out by putting at least 3 on the board before half time in their 2 minute offense. And based on how they'd played up to that point in the game, there really wasn't any reason to believe they'd be able to come back.

If his defense is able to keep it close in the 1st half & he has some semblance of a run game, i doubt he's even throwing as much as he had to for him to throw the last 2 picks he did throw.

But it's not even about his numbers per se..it's about his ability to mentally block out the bad plays, bounce back and continue to lead his team to a comeback.

Furthermore, the chiefs won games this year by pressuring the qb & Luck nuetralized their greatest strength on defense by playing damn near flawless down the stretch in the 4th qtr. Yes, the brandon flowers injury helped, but not all the plays he was making came at the expense of Flowers' replacement. It was the complete package. The decision making, the pocket presence, the awareness, the accuracy, the leadership & the smarts to attack a weakness. Besides, Brandon Flowers wasn't making that big of a difference, the play he got hurt on was a TD catch and run by Donald Brown i believe; the comeback was in full swing at that point.

You saw the full repertoire on display saturday in that game with him. It honestly made me mad b/c by the 4th qtr, Alex Smith was helpless once Indy's defense turned up the heat on him while Luck seemed to make the right decision every single play when KC tried to ramp it up on him.

& while most believe there isn't a Luck type prospect in this draft, his performance represents why the qb prospect always trumps other position prospects.......IF THE GRADES FOR EACH PROSPECT ARE CLOSE. & lets be real Clowney as a prospect isn't going to be rated that much higher than Bridgewater if everything holds as it is now.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
01-06-2014, 10:16 PM
[QUOTE=mussop;2279276]even Swearinger will keep Clowney in line.
QUOTE]

I don't know, there were times during the season where DJ could barely keep himself in line on the field. BUT I do love his aggressiveness, which sadly does not seem to really vibe with todays NFL.

steelbtexan
01-06-2014, 10:39 PM
Thanks man and I repped this post as well. I really just can't believe someone who's a Texans fan could have watched us play this year and not see that we need a QB.

Yes, we need a RT and a few picks on defense. But, my god, people are saying we should trade a pick for a scrub back-up like Mallett or sign some journeyman QB while we have a #1 overall in a pretty good QB draft class. When I see someone talk about how good the high school QB's are looking I just want to slam my head into a wall. I just don't know what to think anymore, I'm glad that there seems to be more rational posters here than crazy people.

They need a QB in the worst way.

Just not TB.

Give me Mallett/Mettenberger/Smith

kiwitexansfan
01-07-2014, 12:43 AM
Mallet/Mettenberger/Smith

What is a mediocre collection of QBs?

Are we playing jeopardy?

bhsman
01-07-2014, 01:22 AM
What is a mediocre collection of QBs?

Are we playing jeopardy?

Mettenberger is probably a first-round pick if not for his injury, which is why people have been pushing for him as our second pick after Clowney.

Corrosion
01-07-2014, 02:27 AM
Mettenberger is probably a first-round pick if not for his injury, which is why people have been pushing for him as our second pick after Clowney.

Who's pushing for Clowney ??! I know of many more who don't want him than do .... :slapfight:

bhsman
01-07-2014, 02:35 AM
Who's pushing for Clowney ??! I know of many more who don't want him than do .... :slapfight:

I'm personally leaning towards Clowney in the first to improve Watt's effectiveness and make the defense that much better. Picking Clowney would also be good, however, just slightly less effective overall.

Marshall
01-07-2014, 02:36 AM
But then he has game winning drives every week. He has played better than last year.

He has the opportunity to play better because the line is giving him more time. I suspect the same would happen with last years QBs and without improvement in the line play, the same 'poor QB' play will result regardless of the new QB savior. Both can make the other look better, but both are required for optimal results.

b0ng
01-07-2014, 09:12 AM
I'm personally leaning towards Clowney in the first to improve Watt's effectiveness and make the defense that much better. Picking Clowney would also be good, however, just slightly less effective overall.

You've been saying this a lot, but I think if your evaluations come up with Manziel or Teddy B as being the best fit and a good to great player as well you gotta take one of those two over the defensive stud.

If the QB sucks, he doesn't have that much in the way of getting a new one (because hey if your QB sucks then you're going to be back in the top 5 or 10 of the draft pretty soon) contract wise and the Texans do have a gigantic hole at the position. I think Clowney could be a great one, but we have Watt who is on the way to becoming great himself, and if one of the top QB's turn into great players I'd much rather have Watt on a team with a great QB than another great DE.

drs23
01-07-2014, 09:54 AM
...
& while most believe there isn't a Luck type prospect in this draft, his performance represents why the qb prospect always trumps other position prospects.......IF THE GRADES FOR EACH PROSPECT ARE CLOSE. & lets be real Clowney as a prospect isn't going to be rated that much higher than Bridgewater if everything holds as it is now.

And I'll add: If at all.

Texecutioner
01-07-2014, 10:38 AM
Watching that chiefs colts game is the reason u take the top qb over the other top position players if the grades for each prospects are in the same ball park.

As good as Houston and Hali were rushing the passer all year, Luck basically made them non factors by working the pocket, getting the ball out fast, and running when he had too.

Simply put, very good qb play trumps exceptional pass rushing and pretty much everything else. So while everyone is getting amped at the thought of Watt and Clowney on the same d-line rushing the passer, take heed of what happened saturday. KC's secondary got exposed once the pressure of houston and hali was nuetralized.

Great post. Couldn't agree more.

My buddy text me after that game stating "This is why you move heaven and earth to find a franchise elite QB." I've stated it many times as well. Playoff games come down to last minute drives, and great QB's have to come alive. The great ones do more than not in those situations. When you look at a lot of the franchises that have struggled over the years around the league it is mainly the ones that have not had a real good QB in a really long time. The Dolphins, Bills, Vikings, Raiders, Jags, Cardinals, and etc. You could add the Texans to this list as well considering that we made two playoff runs in 12 years and had just a few good years from Schaub. Teams with great QB's usually stay towards the top half of the league on a more consistent basis.

76Texan
01-07-2014, 11:47 AM
Great post. Couldn't agree more.

My buddy text me after that game stating "This is why you move heaven and earth to find a franchise elite QB." I've stated it many times as well. Playoff games come down to last minute drives, and great QB's have to come alive. The great ones do more than not in those situations. When you look at a lot of the franchises that have struggled over the years around the league it is mainly the ones that have not had a real good QB in a really long time. The Dolphins, Bills, Vikings, Raiders, Jags, Cardinals, and etc. You could add the Texans to this list as well considering that we made two playoff runs in 12 years and had just a few good years from Schaub. Teams with great QB's usually stay towards the top half of the league on a more consistent basis.

The Texans could trade away this entire draft class for future picks if they want to move heaven and earth.

kiwitexansfan
01-07-2014, 05:22 PM
The Texans could trade away this entire draft class for future picks if they want to move heaven and earth.

I've considered joking that the Texans should do this.

Trade 1-1 for some teams #1 pick for the next 3 years.

That way BOB gets to evaluate the players for a year and can make an informed decision of where to draft in the future.

kingtexan
01-08-2014, 08:35 AM
Houston will NOT draft a QB with the #1 pick in the first round.

Bank on it ...

mussop
01-08-2014, 12:57 PM
Houston will NOT draft a QB with the #1 pick in the first round.

Bank on it ...

I'm now more confident than ever that they will in fact go QB first round.

bOODRO87
01-08-2014, 01:20 PM
Houston will NOT draft a QB with the #1 pick in the first round.

Bank on it ...

You wanna wager something with Pay Pal?

HOU-TEX
01-08-2014, 01:27 PM
I pray to the good Lord above that Lombardi's dumb enough to trade up for Manziel. They do have two 1st round picks that I would love to have. Although, two 1's might be a bit stiff for moving up 3 spots

Sounds dang good though

bah007
01-08-2014, 01:43 PM
I pray to the good Lord above that Lombardi's dumb enough to trade up for Manziel. They do have two 1st round picks that I would love to have. Although, two 1's might be a bit stiff for moving up 3 spots

Sounds dang good though

I'm all in on Bridgewater at this point, unless a pretty big obstacle/issue pops up between now and the draft.

But even then, the opportunity to get both of CLE's 1st round picks to move back just 3 spots would make me stop and think.

The more options we have the better.

HOU-TEX
01-08-2014, 02:04 PM
I'm all in on Bridgewater at this point, unless a pretty big obstacle/issue pops up between now and the draft.

But even then, the opportunity to get both of CLE's 1st round picks to move back just 3 spots would make me stop and think.

The more options we have the better.

Is there a post of yours somewhere explaining what you like about him? I've respected your draft research in the past. Admittedly, I'm just getting started on the draft. I just can't get a grasp of the QBs thus far going by what I've seen.

Presently, I wouldn't even stop and think. I'd be all over that trade like white on rice

mussop
01-08-2014, 02:16 PM
I pray to the good Lord above that Lombardi's dumb enough to trade up for Manziel. They do have two 1st round picks that I would love to have. Although, two 1's might be a bit stiff for moving up 3 spots

Sounds dang good though

There is no way in hell we pass that up. In fact if it's true that Cleveland does want Manziel that bad we should start spreading the rumor about how impressed we are with Manziel right before the draft.

kingtexan
01-08-2014, 06:33 PM
I'm now more confident than ever that they will in fact go QB first round.

Didn't say they wouldn't grab one in the first round, but it wont be the first pick overall.

kingtexan
01-08-2014, 06:35 PM
You wanna wager something with Pay Pal?

No but I would be happy to bet with you at a draft party or something of that sort.

bah007
01-09-2014, 07:51 AM
Is there a post of yours somewhere explaining what you like about him? I've respected your draft research in the past. Admittedly, I'm just getting started on the draft. I just can't get a grasp of the QBs thus far going by what I've seen.

Presently, I wouldn't even stop and think. I'd be all over that trade like white on rice

I have Bridgewater ranked as the top QB in this class in accuracy, decision making, pocket presence, and pre snap reads. He is the most pro ready QB in this class. He has a mind for the game and all of the required physical tools.

His arm strength is not elite, but it's NFL quality. His size is not ideal, but I think that he will grow into his frame a little bit more. I don't like how skinny he is but it's not a deal breaker. He also tends to hold the ball a little bit low in the pocket, but I think it's a fixable issue.

NoMore
01-09-2014, 07:59 AM
I wasn't hoping to get a QB with the first pick, until I saw this list....

QB's alive in the playoffs:
Luck, Rivers, Brady, P. Manning, Kaepernik, Newton, Brees, Wilson

Regarding any post season aspirations I may have that list is pretty telling.



What it tells me is that there are still two ways to get to the playoffs and win (at least one game):
1) dominant QB play: Rivers, Brady, Manning, Brees
2) defenses that are so good your QB is allowed to become, in effect, an outstanding game manager (Wilson) or make seriously garbage throws on a semi-regular occasion (Kaepernick and Newton).

*) I guess Luck defies my categorizations because he was certainly not a "dominant" player the other day but his supporting cast is among the worst in the NFL so there's no way he fits into the 2nd category.

HOU-TEX
01-09-2014, 10:17 AM
Here's a decent break down by rotoworld of the "top" QB's in this years draft.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum

mussop
01-09-2014, 11:41 AM
I have Bridgewater ranked as the top QB in this class in accuracy, decision making, pocket presence, and pre snap reads. He is the most pro ready QB in this class. He has a mind for the game and all of the required physical tools.

His arm strength is not elite, but it's NFL quality. His size is not ideal, but I think that he will grow into his frame a little bit more. I don't like how skinny he is but it's not a deal breaker. He also tends to hold the ball a little bit low in the pocket, but I think it's a fixable issue.

I would not change a single word.

mussop
01-09-2014, 11:45 AM
Here's a decent break down by rotoworld of the "top" QB's in this years draft.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum

Great find. Rep your way.

badboy
01-09-2014, 11:46 AM
I pray to the good Lord above that Lombardi's dumb enough to trade up for Manziel. They do have two 1st round picks that I would love to have. Although, two 1's might be a bit stiff for moving up 3 spots

Sounds dang good thoughThe way I look at it, swapping firsts is no incentative so the only enticement is for more to be added. The second first is not enough imo. "what are you willing to give for me to trade down missing the three highest selected players?" Pressure is on Cleveland not to miss on the next "great quarterback". :roast:

bah007
01-09-2014, 11:48 AM
The silver lining here is that Lombardi seems stupid enough to fall into the same trap Washington just did.

HOU-TEX
01-09-2014, 11:52 AM
The silver lining here is that Lombardi seems stupid enough to fall into the same trap Washington just did.

Yes, he is. Although, he did pull the wool over the Colts eyes on Richardson. He might end up being a decent RB, but currently, the Colts took that one up the poop chute

Playoffs
01-11-2014, 12:46 PM
Trade potentials...
Brady (South dakota)

should the vikings pick up QB in the upcoming draft?
Mel Kiper (2:41 PM)

I would say with the 8th pick. They might have to be aggressive and move up to get the guy they want. Maybe up to 2 with St. Louis. The problem at 8 is you're the fifth team that needs a QB. Right now, there are only 3 QBs that could figure into the top 8. There is a chance that Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles are all gone at No. 8. They'll have to maneuver to get the guy they want.
Manny (Houston)

Does the Munchak firing mean that the Titans will most likely take a QB with their first pick? They don't have an established QB right now and I think a new coach would probably like to bring in his own QB
Mel Kiper (2:54 PM)

I think they would have taken a QB in the draft regardless. Jake Locker hasn't shown he can be a starting QB in the NFL. He didn't have a great final year at Washington coming into the draft. You're in a division with Andrew Luck. You need to secure a QB. You can't fool around when you're Tennessee and right now, they're lagging behind.

Keenan (Atlanta, GA)

What is the Falcons biggest need on defense?
Mel Kiper (2:55 PM)

Pass rusher. Edge pass rusher. They have to get after the QB better. Clowney would be perfect, but he'll probably be gone at 6. They're a team that needs OL help. They have to protect Matt Ryan better. Greg Robinson, Lewan. Jake Matthews will be gone.

bah007
01-11-2014, 01:09 PM
LOL at this nugget from Kiper about Locker, "..He didn't have a great final year at Washington coming into the draft..."

No kidding. It was a huge red flag that everybody saw, and yet all the ESPN draft gurus glossed over it as if it didn't mean anything. Now that the writing is on the wall he is going to use that as if it's something he agreed with at the time? Funny.

WolverineFan
01-11-2014, 01:17 PM
LOL at this nugget from Kiper about Locker, "..He didn't have a great final year at Washington coming into the draft..."

No kidding. It was a huge red flag that everybody saw, and yet all the ESPN draft gurus glossed over it as if it didn't mean anything. Now that the writing is on the wall he is going to use that as if it's something he agreed with at the time? Funny.

I still remember when he called Reggie Bush the next Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders packaged into one player. And 4 years later, including 2 Mario Pro-Bowls and 2 Bush injury filled seasons, he still had the balls to say Mario was the wrong pick.

Playoffs
01-31-2014, 09:13 AM
Tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
I think the top 3 QBs will be gone by the 4th pick. And Rams take OT Jake Matthews.

I remember few thinking RG3 would be a high No. 1 pick until he blew away everyone with a magnificent pro day and his stock soared.

It's interesting how many think they have the QBs already ranked when there's so much more to go in the scouting process.

Gil Brandt on Manziel: "He's like Tarkenton. Only better." Uh, Gil, Fran Tarkenton is in the Hall of Fame. "I know. And I mean what I say."

Gil Brandt, who's been scouting in the NFL since 1959 with Cowboys, has J Football as No. 1 prospect in the draft. He loves Manziel.

I'm still amazed to read and hear so many nationally predicting the Texans won't take a QB with their first-round pick. It'll be a QB!

Corrosion
01-31-2014, 11:21 AM
I'm beginning to come around to Gil Brandt's way of thinking .... of those three QB's , give me Manziel .... with Bridgewater as my second option.

IDEXAN
01-31-2014, 12:26 PM
I'm beginning to come around to Gil Brandt's way of thinking .... of those three QB's , give me Manziel .... with Bridgewater as my second option.
Manziel is going to get his narrow little azz broken in 2 sometime very shortly after he arrives to the NFL if he keeps playing the brand of ball he did in college.
He's not 250 like Cam or Luck or Ben and just won't hold up to that kind of pounding and therefor will need to learn to play in the pocket. And Manziel as a pocket passer just ain't no Johhny Football.

mussop
01-31-2014, 05:21 PM
Manziel is going to get his narrow little azz broken in 2 sometime very shortly after he arrives to the NFL if he keeps playing the brand of ball he did in college.
He's not 250 like Cam or Luck or Ben and just won't hold up to that kind of pounding and therefor will need to learn to play in the pocket. And Manziel as a pocket passer just ain't no Johhny Football.

How many big hits did he take at A&M?

thunderkyss
02-01-2014, 07:50 AM
Tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
I'm still amazed to read and hear so many nationally predicting the Texans won't take a QB with their first-round pick. It'll be a QB!


Too many comparatively graded QBs in this draft. I think a number of these guys taken in the second or later are going to end up having very nice NFL careers. Mettenberger, McCarren, Murray, even Garrapulo if no one takes him in the first.

IDEXAN
02-01-2014, 08:34 AM
How many big hits did he take at A&M?
I didn't see that many games but of the ones I saw he got banged up real good a couple times, and that includes the bowl game against Duke. He was hurting and had to leave the field. He is just not a big guy and will need to significantly modify his game when he arrives in the NFL.

bah007
02-01-2014, 08:37 AM
How many big hits did he take at A&M?

Enough for his biggest supporters to blame all of his issues on injuries he suffered during the season and that the only reason he was even playing in those games was because he was so tough and competitive.

IDEXAN
02-01-2014, 08:39 AM
Too many comparatively graded QBs in this draft. I think a number of these guys taken in the second or later are going to end up having very nice NFL careers. Mettenberger, McCarren, Murray, even Garrapulo if no one takes him in the first.
Yea I don't think there's that much difference between these guys and the so-called first tier including Manziel & Bridgwater.
And is John McClain that close to the people running the Texans so he would haveinfo on their Draft plans ? I doubt if they've even completed their prelim evaluation of potential #1 picks at this point ?

infantrycak
02-01-2014, 08:44 AM
Too many comparatively graded QBs in this draft. I think a number of these guys taken in the second or later are going to end up having very nice NFL careers. Mettenberger, McCarren, Murray, even Garrapulo if no one takes him in the first.

Yea I don't think there's that much difference between these guys and the so-called first tier including Manziel & Bridgwater.
And is John McClain that close to the people running the Texans so he would haveinfo on their Draft plans ? I doubt if they've even completed their prelim evaluation of potential #1 picks at this point ?

Well once the draft is done y'all are going to find the NFL disagrees with your assessment that there isn't much difference.

No McClain doesn't have great inside info into the Texans unless things have changed under OB, but even a blind walrus can see a 1st round QB is a 90% chance.

IDEXAN
02-01-2014, 09:17 AM
Well once the draft is done y'all are going to find the NFL disagrees with your assessment that there isn't much difference.

No McClain doesn't have great inside info into the Texans unless things have changed under OB, but even a blind walrus can see a 1st round QB is a 90% chance.
I'm only seeing marginal differences between Manziel & Bridgewater & Bartles vs
Carr & Garoppolo & Fales. We will see what BOB & RS see ? Perhaps you are right, or maybe not ? It's very early in the process.

infantrycak
02-01-2014, 09:34 AM
It's very early in the process.

No, it is very late in the process. It is only early in the frenetic draftnik season. The process began when the players hit their college campuses. The players have finished their play time and college careers. The only thing left for them is the underwear olympics.

bah007
02-01-2014, 09:38 AM
No, it is very late in the process. It is only early in the frenetic draftnik season. The process began when the players hit their college campuses. The players have finished their play time and college careers. The only thing left for them is the underwear olympics.

Agreed. The #1 tool for scouting prospects is their film, which is complete.

You use combines and workouts to verify what you saw on tape, not the other way around.

IDEXAN
02-01-2014, 10:03 AM
No, it is very late in the process.
I'm referring to the Texans' player evaluation process in preparation of their
Draft Board.

TexansFTW
02-01-2014, 10:06 AM
I'm referring to the Texans' player evaluation process in preparation of their
Draft Board.

BOB: Alright guys, who do we have at QB?

Staff: Case Keenum, Matt Schaub, and TJ Yates

BOB: OK, who is the best QB available in this year's draft?

IDEXAN
02-01-2014, 10:12 AM
Agreed. The #1 tool for scouting prospects is their film, which is complete.

You use combines and workouts to verify what you saw on tape, not the other way around.
Well of course the film is there, the most recent college football season was completed months ago. But O'brien has just in recent days completed assembling his new staff, so they've had scant time to complete their process and conclude their player assessments, rankings, etc.

infantrycak
02-01-2014, 10:14 AM
I'm referring to the Texans' player evaluation process in preparation of their
Draft Board.

These guys don't sit around picking their noses all year long waiting for January and a truckload of film to arrive:

Mike Maccagnan - Director of College Scouting
Bob Beers - College Scout
Ryan Cavanaugh - College Scout
Rob Kisiel - College Scout
Mike Martin - College Scout
Bob Merritt - College Scout
Nathan Trott - College Scout

beerlover
02-01-2014, 10:26 AM
These guys don't sit around picking their noses all year long waiting for January and a truckload of film to arrive:

Mike Maccagnan - Director of College Scouting
Bob Beers - College Scout
Ryan Cavanaugh - College Scout
Rob Kisiel - College Scout
Mike Martin - College Scout
Bob Merritt - College Scout
Nathan Trott - College Scout
beerlover - steward of College Scouting

:heh:

IDEXAN
02-01-2014, 10:31 AM
These guys don't sit around picking their noses all year long waiting for January and a truckload of film to arrive:

Mike Maccagnan - Director of College Scouting
Bob Beers - College Scout
Ryan Cavanaugh - College Scout
Rob Kisiel - College Scout
Mike Martin - College Scout
Bob Merritt - College Scout
Nathan Trott - College Scout
I'm not sure who's still there and who's gone among the Texans' college scouting department after BOBs coup of that staff which left several in managerial positions in the unemployment line, but I know last year these guys were scouting personnel on their assumption that they'd play in Kubiak's WCO/ZBS and Wade Phillips 3-4, and obviously that's all changed.
But in any case scouts accumulate data and recommend, they aren't decision makers. We got a long ways to go here.

mussop
02-01-2014, 10:39 AM
Manziel is going to get his narrow little azz broken in 2 sometime very shortly after he arrives to the NFL if he keeps playing the brand of ball he did in college.
He's not 250 like Cam or Luck or Ben and just won't hold up to that kind of pounding and therefor will need to learn to play in the pocket. And Manziel as a pocket passer just ain't no Johhny Football.




http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8340594818_5547ecdf6c_o.gif

I don't remember ever seeing him take one of these. Manziel is very good at avoiding big hits. He was used as a runner at A&M a lot. That won't be the cSe in the pro's. He will be just fine in the pros.

thunderkyss
02-01-2014, 10:44 AM
And is John McClain that close to the people running the Texans so he would haveinfo on their Draft plans ? I doubt if they've even completed their prelim evaluation of potential #1 picks at this point ?

You've been on this board since 2010.... three drafts... you shouldn't have to ask that question.

thunderkyss
02-01-2014, 10:46 AM
Well once the draft is done y'all are going to find the NFL disagrees with your assessment that there isn't much difference.


Kinda like Russell Wilson being drafted in the third, Schaub in the third, Romo undrafted, & yeah, Tom Brady.

No doubt in my mind Bridgewater will not be the most successful QB in this draft. I have no idea who will, but I know the odds are against Bridgewater.

kiwitexansfan
02-01-2014, 11:47 AM
And is John McClain that close to the people running the Texans

Only if they happen to be standing next to the buffet table.

bah007
02-01-2014, 11:52 AM
I don't remember ever seeing him take one of these. Manziel is very good at avoiding big hits. He was used as a runner at A&M a lot. That won't be the cSe in the pro's. He will be just fine in the pros.

As good as Manziel is at avoiding hits, if you listen to his biggest supporters, they will tell you that his weaknesses on film are due to injuries he suffered this year.

So either:
-he isn't good at avoiding big hits (big deal since that is one of the factors that offsets his size concerns)
-he was injured by sustaining smaller hits (possible durability issue)
-his weaknesses on tape are real and were not due to injury (possible mechanical or physical flaws in his game)

Uncle Rico
02-01-2014, 12:00 PM
"I have NO DOUBT in my mind that Bridgewater will not be the best QB in this draft" That is probably the single most hilarious and utterly hateful comment I've read on this message board. LOL

Im sure you'd say AJ McCarron would be the most successful right? Another Tom Brady because they share the same 'body type' ?? hahaha wow I needed a laugh too thanks!

thunderkyss
02-01-2014, 02:40 PM
"I have NO DOUBT in my mind that Bridgewater will not be the best QB in this draft" That is probably the single most hilarious and utterly hateful comment I've read on this message board. LOL

Im sure you'd say AJ McCarron would be the most successful right? Another Tom Brady because they share the same 'body type' ?? hahaha wow I needed a laugh too thanks!

It's no hate. It's odds.

I feel good about Aj McCarron. If I were in charge of this draft, he would be the one I target.

But it's a pretty safe bet to pick any one QB in this draft & say he won't be the most successful. Odds are against any one.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2014, 04:54 PM
It's no hate. It's odds.

I feel good about Aj McCarron. If I were in charge of this draft, he would be the one I target.

But it's a pretty safe bet to pick any one QB in this draft & say he won't be the most successful. Odds are against any one.

AJ at #1 ?

thunderkyss
02-01-2014, 07:09 PM
AJ at #1 ?

2-1

Or trade up into the bottom of the 1st so we can say we got a 1st round QB.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2014, 07:18 PM
2-1

Or trade up into the bottom of the 1st so we can say we got a 1st round QB.

Draft Fales in the 4th instead of AJ .

mussop
02-01-2014, 07:47 PM
As good as Manziel is at avoiding hits, if you listen to his biggest supporters, they will tell you that his weaknesses on film are due to injuries he suffered this year.

So either:
-he isn't good at avoiding big hits (big deal since that is one of the factors that offsets his size concerns)
-he was injured by sustaining smaller hits (possible durability issue)
-his weaknesses on tape are real and were not due to injury (possible mechanical or physical flaws in his game)

Again he was used as a runner a lot at A&M. That won't be the case in the nfl. And yes he's not mechanically sound. Not many QB's are after only two years in college. Despite his mechanical flaws he still put together one of the best freshman seasons of all time And improved his second year.

Against #1 ranked Alabama Manziel's final stat line was 28-of-39 for 464 passing yards and five touchdowns, with two interceptions, as well as 98 rushing yards on 14 carries. No other quarterback has done anything remotely like that against Nick Saban’s defense.
A few weeks later
Manziel injured his left knee on a rollout during the Mississippi game. He only sat out one series. Then he returned to lead the Aggies on a game-winning drive as time expired.
Don't know how anyone could look at that negatively. I would say that shows toughness.

Skip ahead a few more weeks.
Playing Auburn who would eventually make it to the championship game, Manziel threw for 454 yards and four touchdowns and ran for a fifth score, but was intercepted twice. He missed a series in the fourth quarter with an injury to his right shoulder on a running play. He got up after the tackle and then went to the ground before he reached the A&M sideline. A&M officials looked at him for a couple of minutes on the turf before he got up and walked off on his own power.
He tried to warm up on the sideline after being tended to by trainers and stopped as he started to attempt to throw to WR Mike Evans, shaking his head as if he could not make the pass. Manziel, the reigning Heisman Trophy winner, left the bench momentarily, but returned, made some warm-up tosses and went back into the game.
Upon his return he completed 9-of-10 passes for 102 yards and ran for a touchdown. He was still in a sling on the following Monday, and was limited in practice throughout the next week.

Here is a video (http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3418041/jmhurt.gif) of the injury

Texas A&M said Manziel was to be evaluated after the game.
Again the fact that he came back into the Game shows how tough and competitive he is.

Did he have a bad game against LSU and Missouri? Sure he did. The whole team played like crap. Against LSU Sumlin abandoned the run way to early. The OL was outplayed and the WR’s got pushed around throwing timing routes off. Yet Manziel was still able to put up 34 and 28 points. And after a couple of weeks of rest destroyed Duke.
Manziels thumb was reported to be badly dislocated yet he never once used that as an excuse. He made several bad off field decisions his first year. Was clean as a whistle last year.

He has shown toughness, maturity and the ability to lead. He is still behind Bridgwater and Clowney on my short list for 1.1. If we draft him I will be very happy.

Uncle Rico
02-01-2014, 07:57 PM
It's no hate. It's odds.

I feel good about Aj McCarron. If I were in charge of this draft, he would be the one I target.

But it's a pretty safe bet to pick any one QB in this draft & say he won't be the most successful. Odds are against any one.

You're backtracking. That's not how you worded your original audacious comment. It's cool everyone knows who is in who's camp. Just that your original comment is chuckle worthy. If you realize as much, then ok if you meant that there is no 1 sure fire QB then that is more plausible.

htownfan32
02-01-2014, 08:58 PM
Drafting McCarron is like wanting 1/2 of Matt Schaub. No way.

thunderkyss
02-02-2014, 03:39 AM
Drafting McCarron is like wanting 1/2 of Matt Schaub. No way.

Or the next Tom Brady.

Marshall
02-02-2014, 04:50 AM
"I have NO DOUBT in my mind that Bridgewater will not be the best QB in this draft" That is probably the single most hilarious and utterly hateful comment I've read on this message board. LOL

Im sure you'd say AJ McCarron would be the most successful right? Another Tom Brady because they share the same 'body type' ?? hahaha wow I needed a laugh too thanks!

I'm not sure any of these will be more than a backup in three years. A couple will start because they will be drafted high, but I cannot see any of them as franchise type QBs. But this isn't different than a typical year.

TexansSeminole
02-02-2014, 04:57 AM
I don't remember ever seeing him take one of these. Manziel is very good at avoiding big hits. He was used as a runner at A&M a lot. That won't be the cSe in the pro's. He will be just fine in the pros.

Welcome to a discussion we had about a month ago.

Round and around you go.

Marshall
02-02-2014, 05:00 AM
Welcome to a discussion we had about a month ago.

Round and around you go.

And will keep having until draft day...

bhsman
02-02-2014, 01:18 PM
Manziel injured his shoulder the same way Rodgers did against the Bears; it's not like he's magically more prone to injury than anyone else.

TexansFTW
02-02-2014, 01:36 PM
To knock Manziel for injury is absurd. It's the NFL and everyone gets hurt. It's how you respond to being hurt that matters the most.

You can sit out of the biggest game of your life like Colt McCoy and fade into obscurity for the Cleveland Browns.

OR...

You can man up like Manziel did and 'put the team on your back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0yfq2wDvU)'. I think how you respond to injury is more important than simply being injured.

Even the most stationary pocket guys eventually get hurt (Brady and Manning).

TB exhibited the same man up attitude JFF did in his Bowl game against Florida when he, to me, appeared to get concussed but still stayed in the game and dominated a much better team.

thunderkyss
02-02-2014, 03:09 PM
I think Bridgewater has his own "toughness" stories.

Teddy Bridgewater showed up to the postgame press conference with his left arm in a cast, his left foot in a boot and tears welling in his eyes. It was never clear if they were from the emotion of a big win or from the pain shooting through his ankle.
Bridgewater spent a large dose of the game limping, but never gingerly. Whenever he was subbed out, his full leg buckled when he jogged to the sidelines.
So when time expired on Louisville's thrilling 20-17 win over Rutgers to wrap up a BCS berth, Bridgewater's pain dissolved, right?
"Oh no," Bridgewater said. "I definitely felt pain even after we won."


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/gabriel_baumgaertner/11/30/louisville-defeats-rutgers-earns-bcs-berth/index.html#ixzz2sCXFuiDi

The Cardinals were trailing 10-0 when Bridgewater led the team back to force overtime with a touchdown pass with 21 seconds remaining. Bridgewater played through the injury and completed 30 of 53 passes for 331 yards with two touchdowns and one interception. That interception led to UConn’s game-winning field goal in triple overtime.

http://tracking.si.com/2012/11/24/louisville-teddy-bridgewater-breaks-wrist/




Pretty impressive stuff, if you ask me.

mussop
02-02-2014, 05:01 PM
I think Bridgewater has his own "toughness" stories.








Pretty impressive stuff, if you ask me.

Take that **** to the Bridgewater thread!:pissed:











j/k :)

mussop
02-02-2014, 07:31 PM
No brainer............Draft Jerry Ricecake.

thunderkyss
02-02-2014, 07:47 PM
Did we post what Skip said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB4__HOC2r8) yet?

TexansFTW
02-02-2014, 11:58 PM
Did we post what Skip said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB4__HOC2r8) yet?

If I could hate 1 "analyst" more than Steven A Smith it has to be Skip. Not for his analysis of Manziel, but because I hate everything he says and he ONLY says things to say things and create buzz and controversy.

PapaL
02-03-2014, 12:28 AM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/03/u8edevaq.jpg

If not, Clowny. Defense wins championships.

bah007
02-03-2014, 10:15 AM
Did we post what Skip said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB4__HOC2r8) yet?

LOL didn't even need to check the link to see what he would say.

Dutchrudder
02-03-2014, 10:36 AM
...

Did he have a bad game against LSU and Missouri? Sure he did. The whole team played like crap. Against LSU Sumlin abandoned the run way to early. The OL was outplayed and the WR’s got pushed around throwing timing routes off. Yet Manziel was still able to put up 34 and 28 points. And after a couple of weeks of rest destroyed Duke.
Manziels thumb was reported to be badly dislocated yet he never once used that as an excuse. He made several bad off field decisions his first year. Was clean as a whistle last year.

He has shown toughness, maturity and the ability to lead. He is still behind Bridgwater and Clowney on my short list for 1.1. If we draft him I will be very happy.

No... that would be the other teams. LSU 34 - A&M 10 and Mizzou 28 - A&M 21. He was terrible in the LSU game, it was clearly the worst game of his career. He was OK in the Mizzou game, but missed several opportunities to do anything towards the end of the game. I think they had 3 possessions in the 4th quarter that went nowhere.

thunderkyss
02-03-2014, 10:40 AM
After that poor game Manning put up yesterday, would anyone have a problem if he were our starting QB next year?

Why, or why not?

I wouldn't have a problem with it, because he'll still be one of the top 5 QBs in the league. Even though he'll probably have a bad game or two next season. He's going to throw a few INTs, he's going to make some stupid throws, miss some reads... lose some games.

But he'll have more, way more positive plays than negative.

JCTexan
02-03-2014, 12:06 PM
After that poor game Manning put up yesterday, would anyone have a problem if he were our starting QB next year?

Why, or why not?

I wouldn't have a problem with it, because he'll still be one of the top 5 QBs in the league. Even though he'll probably have a bad game or two next season. He's going to throw a few INTs, he's going to make some stupid throws, miss some reads... lose some games.

But he'll have more, way more positive plays than negative.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with Manning coming here next year, but I would still consider taking a QB #1. Manning only has a year or two remaining in his career so a future QB would still be a must this off-season.

thunderkyss
02-03-2014, 12:55 PM
No, I wouldn't have a problem with Manning coming here next year, but I would still consider taking a QB #1. Manning only has a year or two remaining in his career so a future QB would still be a must this off-season.

I'm with you... but the point of that post, was to contrast the post above mine (I guess I should have quoted it)... just because a guy has a bad game doesn't mean he's not worth a crap, or won't be successful in the NFL.

Playoffs
02-08-2014, 09:50 AM
No one has a clue what we'll be doing with the 1st overall pick.

I've heard different draft "experts" assuredly report that we will be drafting Manziel... Bortles... Bridgewater... Clowney.

So far -- and it's early -- Texans are playing their hand perfectly to maintain the possibility of a trade.

It'll be interesting to see if, as the process moves forward, if they target a few teams/marks by leaking interest in a particular player. I think Clowney will blow up the Combine and will bring teams offers. But it could be a QB.

Fun watching the drama play out. :popcorn:

Ole Miss Texan
02-08-2014, 11:05 AM
My view is this: O'Brien & Co. must solve the QB problem and it's 100% certainty the new regime will bring in their new QB('s) through FA and/or draft. Typically they draft their guy early in the first year.

So going into this draft, with 1:1, they're #1 focus has to be "is there a franchise QB for THIS team in this draft and who is he?" I don't care if Clowney is the second coming of Kearse, if Bridgewater/Bortles/Manziel is determined to be a QB they feel very confident will take over this team and get us to multiple AFC Championships and Super Bowls, they MUST take him at 1:1 and never question that decision. You DO NOT get fancy and trade down thinking you might could still get him.

Second, us fans may see these top 3 QBs all ranked fairly similarly. But trust me, O'Brien does not. He may not like any of them, he may like 2, he may LOVE 1. And if there is that 1, we have to take him whoever he is.

If it were up to me, and we determined none of the top 3 QBs would fit my needs as a QB and would not be the franchise guy- then I don't select them period and I look at Taking the risk on Clowney or trading down. I would look at Clowney or Mack in that case or Barr and see "who would be the best defender for MY defense."

For me it's Bridgewater right now still. I think Bortles has a legitimate chance but I want to be careful because what gets me more excited about him is his prototypical size. That's very dangerous to push him ahead because of size alone. I think he'd need to develop behind a veteran, but if that's what OB wants I'm on board. I prefer Bridgewater, I just feel like he's pro ready day 1 and has the intelligence to succeed. Granted I'm not saying Bortles/Manziel do not... I just feel much better about Teddy. I love Manziel but do not want us taking him. I just don't have a good gut feeling at all about his long term success in this league.

Clowney is tempting but I worry about his motor and drive/passion. He says he wants to be #1 pick does not impress me. If he were to say I wanna be #1 defender in league, I want to play next to Watt, I want to dominate the NfL... I would feel better. He's saying he's going to put up insane numbers at the combine and he wants to be the first pick. Woopty freaking Doo. BUT, if he passes the interviews and the coaches feel really really good about him AND they do not love any QBs, I would be good with Clowney. I do worry about him and Watt from a salary cap point in a few years. Watts gonna get paid insanely. Then just a few short years later Clowney will want to get paid (assuming he pans out) and we won't be able to afford both. That gives us 4 years maybe 5 with both of them.... But who's our QB? Draft one next year? Free Agent pans out? Mid rounder from this year works?? If it's not till next year or 2 that limits our Super Bowl chances with out 1:1 pick Clowney to like 3 years till he's gone. Maybe I'm just thinking too much about that.

At the end of the day I think it will be Bridgewater or Bortles at 1:1, O'Brien will love one of them. My bet is Bridgewater wows them in interviews and they select him and I'll be pleased.

texanpride

thunderkyss
02-08-2014, 01:04 PM
Clowney is tempting but I worry about his motor and drive/passion. He says he wants to be #1 pick does not impress me. If he were to say I wanna be #1 defender in league, I want to play next to Watt, I want to dominate the NfL... I would feel better. He's saying he's going to put up insane numbers at the combine and he wants to be the first pick. Woopty freaking Doo. BUT, if he passes the interviews and the coaches feel really really good about him AND they do not love any QBs, I would be good with Clowney. I do worry about him and Watt from a salary cap point in a few years. Watts gonna get paid insanely. Then just a few short years later Clowney will want to get paid (assuming he pans out) and we won't be able to afford both. That gives us 4 years maybe 5 with both of them.... But who's our QB? Draft one next year? Free Agent pans out? Mid rounder from this year works?? If it's not till next year or 2 that limits our Super Bowl chances with out 1:1 pick Clowney to like 3 years till he's gone. Maybe I'm just thinking too much about that.


I don't worry about his motor. Not one bit. With guys like Cushing & Watt... I don't think he could take a play off without getting his butt whupped.

I question how/where we will use him. If we take him, I'm going to trust that OB & Crennel & Kollar & Vrabel have a plan.

Playoffs
02-08-2014, 02:44 PM
What 2011 can teach us about drafting QBs (http://espn.go.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/3959/what-2011-can-teach-us-about-drafting-qbs)
The Houston Texans need a quarterback, but need is a dangerous word around this time of year.

Bad things can happen when a team considers need disproportionately to what's available. The 2011 NFL draft provides a good case study on the matter. That season those who waited fared better than those who didn't, showing that if you're not sure about the quarterbacks available to you, it's better not to force it.

Back then the Panthers, Bengals, Cardinals, 49ers, Titans, Vikings, Redskins and Jaguars all had clear quarterback needs. The Panthers had the top pick and an infatuation with Cam Newton that worked out to the benefit of both parties.

Things got murkier after that. Newton and Blaine Gabbert were widely talked about as the top two quarterbacks in that draft. The Panthers did quite a bit of work on Gabbert back then, too, but nothing they saw drew them away from Newton. The rest of the quarterbacking field was a group that came with talent and many questions.

The Cardinals traded for Kevin Kolb later that offseason, a gamble that didn't work so well and ultimately contributed to the firing of coach Ken Whisenhunt.

The other teams can be divided into those who waited and those who...

thunderkyss
02-08-2014, 08:00 PM
What 2011 can teach us about drafting QBs (http://espn.go.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/3959/what-2011-can-teach-us-about-drafting-qbs)Bad things can happen when a team considers need disproportionately to what's available. The 2011 NFL draft provides a good case study on the matter. That season those who waited fared better than those who didn't, showing that if you're not sure about the quarterbacks available to you, it's better not to force it.

What makes him think Tennessee, Jacksonville, & Minnesota weren't "sure" & Cincinnatti and SF were?

Trust me, it's very possible to be 100% sure, & completely wrong at the same time.

I don't see where "waiting" = "sure"

aussie_texan
02-08-2014, 08:30 PM
What makes him think Tennessee, Jacksonville, & Minnesota weren't "sure" & Cincinnatti and SF were?

Trust me, it's very possible to be 100% sure, & completely wrong at the same time.

I don't see where "waiting" = "sure"

Very true

texan_joe
02-08-2014, 09:36 PM
Personally I'd take Bridgewater. I am 100% sold on this guy. I have watched him since his sophmore year and he has progressed every year. He has Aaron Rodgers type potential. Their games are very similar. Their arm strength and accuracy are similar. They can both move around in the pocket to buy time and are accurate going across the body. Their body types aren't that dissimilar coming out of college as I think Bridgewater will weigh in around 215-220 at the combine.
If I weren't going to take Bridgewater I would see about trading my second round pick to N.E. for Mallett and my #1 to Cleveland for #4 and #26 then I take Anthony Barr at 4 and at 26 I take either OT Taylor Lewing, LB CJ Mosley, or S Calvin Pryor. That gives you your young QB, a potentially dominant OLB, and either a bookend T to pair with LTD Brown, a run stuffing LB to put inside with Cushing, or a ballhawking FS to pair with Swearinger to solidify your safety position for a decade.

Playoffs
03-06-2014, 09:56 AM
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
Looking more and more like Texans go with best player on their board (likely Clowney) and a QB later in the draft. Traits usually win out.

Uncle Rico
03-06-2014, 05:39 PM
Trade down for Watkins, Moseley or Mack. Instant playmakers, no time needed to develop.

I'm done with the soap opera QB class of 2014.

Corrosion
03-06-2014, 06:15 PM
Did we post what Skip said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB4__HOC2r8) yet?

I think this is a first .... I agree with both Skip Clueless and Stephen A Stupid .... Give me Manziel.

thunderkyss
03-07-2014, 06:27 AM
Texans considering top 3 quarterback prospects for No. 1 overall pick (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/07/texans-considering-top-3-quarterback-prospects-for-no-1-overall-pick/)
According to John McClain of the Houston Chronicle, Louisville’s Teddy Bridgewater, Center Florida’s Blake Bortles and Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel are all being “seriously considered” for the top pick in the draft.

While none of the three quarterbacks are thought to be the most talented player in the draft – that distinction is commonly thought to fall to South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney or Auburn tackle Greg Robinson – it is the most glaring need for the Texans at the game’s most pivotal position.

With a Pro Bowl defensive end in J.J. Watt and a Pro Bowl left tackle in Duane Brown already on their roster, it appears likely that quarterback will be the direction the Texans will go with their top selection in May.

TexansFTW
03-07-2014, 08:28 AM
Trade down for Watkins, Moseley or Mack. Instant playmakers, no time needed to develop.

I'm done with the soap opera QB class of 2014.

You flipped sides? Once you leave you can't come back, you know that right? Like Charlie in "All Dogs Go To Heaven".

Blake
03-07-2014, 09:03 AM
I think they should take Bridgewater. But if they decided to go with Clowney I would be good with that.

If they want Bortles, Manziel, or anyone else I think you try to trade down a few spots if possible.

ObsiWan
03-07-2014, 09:04 AM
Did we post what Skip said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB4__HOC2r8) yet?

Someone should point out that these quotes are from January 2nd, immediately following theChik-Fil-A Bowl game where Manziel threw for 388 yds, 4 TDs and ran for another 73 yds and a TD on 11 carries against Duke. I chalk this up to post bowl game euphoria from the talking heads.
...plus it's Skip Bayless... he had (has?) a mancrush on Tebow too.

ChampionTexan
03-07-2014, 09:28 AM
I've pretty much gotten to the point where if they don't take Clowney, Robinson, or trade down for good value (which I know is far easier said than done), I'm gonna be disappointed. In otherwords, it's basically anything but a QB with that #1 pick. No real preference out of those three options

Number19
03-07-2014, 09:32 AM
Put me down as another who is beginning to rethink 1-1. I'm still going defense, but rather than Mack, who I still like, I'm beginning to consider Clowney.

But rather than projecting him to right side DE, or the Elephant, I'd project him to the strong side OLB, right beside JJ.

How's an offense going to block this pair? It would force the offense to keep the TE in to block one-on-one with Clowney, removing him as a receiving threat, and leaving the RT one-on-one with JJ. If the RG was to slide over to help out, I'd have Cushing shoot the wide open gap to blitz the QB.

This leaves our NT one-on-one with the OC.

My 2-33 selection is still Tuitt. He's currently projected at bottom of the first or top of the second. He can play DE on the weak side, but moving him to NT puts him one-on-one against the OC, a far more favorable matchup. He'll anchor the middle against the run and generate up-the-middle pressure on the QB.

This leaves Mercilus at the Elephant, one-on-one against the blindside LT, a not so favorable matchup as he's shown the past two years.

This requires us to address the right side DE in the mid-rounds with a player who can dominate one-on-one against the LG. I haven't found this prospect just yet.

But for the NT position, I'm still liking Ryan Carrethers, who will probably be available at 5-129. So if Carrethers can win the NT position and can dominate the OC, this allows me to move Tuitt back to the right side DE, where I've had him all along. With Tuitt outside, this may help free up Mercilus to make more plays on the QB. As you see, we have a lot of flexibility where we play Tuitt.

At 3-65 I still have Smallwood penciled in to play next to Cushing. He's good at dropping back into pass coverage, but more importantly, he'll be excellent at shooting the gaps on the right side to blitz the QB.

So my defensive heavy draft, without any trades, is beginning to round into shape. With what I have so far, I still have pick 4-97. This selection could be for a QB. I'm anticipating the Texans signing a FA QB, maybe as soon as next week.

(edit) I forgot, 4-97 is for JaWuan James, RT, who's currently projected to go 3rd/4th round. That leaves #5 supplemental for a QB. The one I've currently got an eye on is Keith Wenning from Ball State. But he might be available as deep as the 7th round, or possibly an UFA.

Blake
03-07-2014, 09:48 AM
I've pretty much gotten to the point where if they don't take Clowney, Robinson, or trade down for good value (which I know is far easier said than done), I'm gonna be disappointed. In otherwords, it's basically anything but a QB with that #1 pick. No real preference out of those three options

Understandable. But getting your hopes up for 1 or 2 players is a mistake. If we take someone else you will eventually watch their film and say "well maybe I can get behind this pick." Happens every year.

Playoffs
03-07-2014, 09:50 AM
Greg Gabriel ‏@greggabe
With just about every forced QB pick in the last 6 years, someone has gotten fired. Sanchez, Tebow, Ponder, Gabbert, Locker, Weedon...

When you force a QB pick you are risking your career

This year I'm saying none of the QB's is worthy of a top 10 pick. It's a mistake if they go that high

Also wrote in the NFP that Ponder and Locker were not 1st round QB's

At this time 2 years ago I was getting killed by people cause I said Gabbert was awful. I think I was right.

In McShay's new mock he has 3 QB's going in the top 4 picks. Not going to happen! There isn't a franchise QB in this class. Good not great!

ChampionTexan
03-07-2014, 10:03 AM
Understandable. But getting your hopes up for 1 or 2 players is a mistake. If we take someone else you will eventually watch their film and say "well maybe I can get behind this pick." Happens every year.
I'm a big boy - if I get disappointed, I get disappointed, and I'll deal with it.

It's not like someone else can swoop in right before our pick, and take the guy I wanted us to pick. Saying I shouldn't want a particular player or two is essentially telling me I'm not allowed to form an opinion on who I like best, and that's simply ridiculous.

And yes, if they choose a QB at 1-1 (or anyone else), I'll get behind the pick soon enough - doesn't mean I can't go for a short while (as in a few days) not liking it.

HOU-TEX
03-07-2014, 10:28 AM
Greg Gabriel ‏@greggabe

Could not agree more with this cat's assessment. I usually don't dig on people patting their own back, but what this guy said is spot on.

At this point, I'm almost willing to trade back for darn near anything that might be offered (reasonably speaking). If not, I'd be satisfied with picking Clowney, Watkins, Mathews, Robinson or Mack. I never knee-jerk with our picks, but I'd be kinda disappointed if we chose a QB with 1.1

thunderkyss
03-07-2014, 10:32 AM
I've pretty much gotten to the point where if they don't take Clowney, Robinson, or trade down for good value (which I know is far easier said than done), I'm gonna be disappointed. In otherwords, it's basically anything but a QB with that #1 pick. No real preference out of those three options

I really don't care. I mean I know what I would do & it would be sweet if the Texans did what I want them to do... but I know they won't.

I'll be disappointed if we're not talking through play off scenarios in December. I don't mean that we should control our own destiny, but like the Steelers sitting there hoping they can get in with an 8-8 record.

We need an outside pass rusher, we need a QB, we need help on the OL, we need a safety & then some. I don't care how the Texans do it, but they need to find a way to field a competitive team in a weak AFC with a weak schedule. Draft, Free agency, trade, I don't care. Just get it done.

thunderkyss
03-07-2014, 10:43 AM
Greg Gabriel ‏@greggabeWith just about every forced QB pick in the last 6 years, someone has gotten fired. Sanchez, Tebow, Ponder, Gabbert, Locker, Weedon...

When you force a QB pick you are risking your career

This year I'm saying none of the QB's is worthy of a top 10 pick. It's a mistake if they go that high

Also wrote in the NFP that Ponder and Locker were not 1st round QB's

At this time 2 years ago I was getting killed by people cause I said Gabbert was awful. I think I was right.

In McShay's new mock he has 3 QB's going in the top 4 picks. Not going to happen! There isn't a franchise QB in this class. Good not great!

I was wrong on McNabb. I didn't see having anywhere near the career he was going to have. I think he was as successful as he was, because he was drafted by Andy Reid (& he was lucky to have Jim Johnson).

But if they go to the right "system" I can see Bridgewater & Bortles (& McCarron, & Murray) having McNabb type success.... or Rivers.

& with the rules & the way coaches are letting these guys play Garopolo, Manziel, even Boyd can have short term success.

That's why I don't want to take one with the 1st overall pick. Not because I don't think they can be "franchise" QBs, but because I don't think they're the type that will be successful where ever they go, like Peyton, or Rivers, or Palmer.

I don't think these guys (even Manziel) will bust like Gabbert, Ponder, or Tebow.

TexansFTW
03-07-2014, 12:39 PM
All you cats are switching sides. I'm taking notes. When the pick comes in and you all try to claim you wanted it or were behind it the whole time I'm gonna call you on your Tom Foolery.

You can listen to these jokers change their minds from week to week and sway in the wind with them, but I won't be there.

In another message board I was on an Alshon Jeffery island while people berated me, then when he dominates they acted like they were there the whole time. Denied... you switch sides and it's over.

When the season was over there were 3 franchise QBs. Today there are none. What changed? The QB I wanted the whole time is still rated inside most everyone's top 10 big board yet now he is getting compared to Jake Lockers and Blaine Gabberts. What is going on here?

Did you know according to most big boards in 2011 that Gabbert was ranked ahead of Cam? How's Cam working out? Maybe people blew it on Gabbert in 2011, maybe sometimes players don't work out. It doesn't mean the next time a good player comes out he's going to suck. You can compare to Gabbert, I will compare to Rodgers, just don't forgot what side of the line you were on when it's over.

HOU-TEX
03-07-2014, 01:13 PM
All you cats are switching sides. I'm taking notes. When the pick comes in and you all try to claim you wanted it or were behind it the whole time I'm gonna call you on your Tom Foolery.

You can listen to these jokers change their minds from week to week and sway in the wind with them, but I won't be there.

In another message board I was on an Alshon Jeffery island while people berated me, then when he dominates they acted like they were there the whole time. Denied... you switch sides and it's over.

When the season was over there were 3 franchise QBs. Today there are none. What changed? The QB I wanted the whole time is still rated inside most everyone's top 10 big board yet now he is getting compared to Jake Lockers and Blaine Gabberts. What is going on here?

Did you know according to most big boards in 2011 that Gabbert was ranked ahead of Cam? How's Cam working out? Maybe people blew it on Gabbert in 2011, maybe sometimes players don't work out. It doesn't mean the next time a good player comes out he's going to suck. You can compare to Gabbert, I will compare to Rodgers, just don't forgot what side of the line you were on when it's over.

http://rlv.zcache.co.uk/ribbon_1st_place_photo_sculptures-reee1ddfd187e4669abc10f200951c4e2_x7saw_8byvr_512. jpg

Lucky
03-07-2014, 08:51 PM
Greg Gabriel's twitter (https://twitter.com/greggabe)

With just about every forced QB pick in the last 6 years, someone has gotten fired. Sanchez, Tebow, Ponder, Gabbert, Locker, Weedon...

When you force a QB pick you are risking your career

This year I'm saying none of the QB's is worthy of a top 10 pick. It's a mistake if they go that high

Also wrote in the NFP that Ponder and Locker were not 1st round QB's

At this time 2 years ago I was getting killed by people cause I said Gabbert was awful. I think I was right.
OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.

beerlover
03-07-2014, 10:05 PM
Greg Gabriel's twitter (https://twitter.com/greggabe)


OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.

evolution. compare surrounding players with those here, now & same disparity exists if not more. different years, different players this one is exceptional for OT, DE/OLB & WR that is strength of this class, so you play into it not against it!

LikeMike
03-08-2014, 05:49 AM
Greg Gabriel's twitter (https://twitter.com/greggabe)


OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.

To answer your question: these QBs might compare in numbers to Luck, Newton and Griffin, but they are always lacking something. Bridgewater doing everything well - but he doesn`t have the prototypical height, elite strength and played against poor teams. Bortles has the prototypical frame, but he needs to improve his mechanics and accuracy. Manziel is a great runner and a decent passer - but he is a lot smaller than Newton and could be just as injury prone as Griffin as a pro.

The QBs that failed, Gabbert, Locker, Ponder, all had question marks surrounding them. Mostly it was about their ability to get the mental aspects (reads, decisions, understanding coverages) right within the speed of an NFL play - and it was about their accuracy and their ability to react to pressure. I do believe, that these are the biggest hurdles in the transition, because they can get away with it and look great in college, but they get exposed in the NFL.

When looking at this years draft class, I´d say Bridgewater is the least likely to fail, simply because he excells in the things I´ve just stated. But when scouts look at him, they don`t see elite potential. He is not big and strong enough. When you look at Bortles, scouts see elite potential - but around him are similar question marks as there were around Gabbert, Locker and Ponder. Some QBs overcome these questions marks, most don`t. Manziel is probably the hardest to evaluate. He has all the talents in the world - but with his play style he should be injury prone, and it will be interesting to see, how he will react to NFL speed.

So Luck was a no brainer because he had everything - basically no question marks. Griffins main question mark was his ability to play within the pocket and stay healthy (similar to Manziel - though Griffin seems to be the better "guy"), but he was also looked at as a can´t miss project. Newton had question marks surrounding his throwing ability, but his elite combination of size, speed, arm and leadership was too intriguing.

thunderkyss
03-08-2014, 08:01 AM
Greg Gabriel's twitter (https://twitter.com/greggabe)


OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.

I don't know if that's what he's saying. Saying "the three" aren't top ten picks isn't the same as saying they're going to bust like Gabbert. He's just saying he was right about Gabbert, so he's most likely right about "the three"

So what's the difference between a first round QB... Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco... & Peyton, Rivers, Aikman, Luck? To me a top 5 pick is a franchise player. A first rounder outside the top 5 is a starter (Matt Schaub, Tony Romo, Stafford, Cutler).

Guys like Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees may very well be elite, but at the time they were drafted that seemed unlikely. Something happened between then & now that helped them become who they are.

Playoffs
03-10-2014, 03:04 PM
Alshon Jeffrey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ZxqA4yA3w

Andre Ware: http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/What-would-Andre-Ware-do/93f32f97-e9b2-448f-8364-c602bd30b9c1

powda
03-10-2014, 04:37 PM
Greg Gabriel's twitter (https://twitter.com/greggabe)


OK, it's a mistake for QBs to go high in this draft. Because Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder went high and it was a mistake. My question is, in what way are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles like those guys?

The QBs coming out in this draft produced at a level that Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder never did. Numbers aren't everything. But you know who did put up similar numbers to Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles? Newton, Luck, and Griffin. I would just like to know why the QBs in this draft are more similar to the busts than the studs of past drafts. Just saying they're not "worthy" doesn't cut it.

We spend all this time discussing attributes of the various players and specifically qb's , but I think half the guys that will be busts would be succesfull given the right opportunity. Put Carr with an average oline and kubiak day 1 and I think his career is significantly different. It really boils down to " in BOB we trust."

What I don't like is:

We have a lg and rt we have to upgrade.

We have a rg we expect to get better - but no guarantees

We have a run game based on Foster who is arguably injury prone at this point and definitely older. How much production does he have left in the tank , and how important is a run game to a young qb?

We have a coach who some people laud as good at grooming qb's when in fact he had brady and remains unproven in that capacity.

BOB has no offensive coordinator so how much of his time will be dedicated to everything excluding his new qb?

These are all just elements in the moving puzzle for a qb's success , but they're things I don't see helping any qb no matter his skill set.

It's quite likely we can draft the right qb and still not have success due to the rest of the outside elements. Picking the wrong qb doesn't necessarily mean failure. Picking the wrong coach likely does and that part of the puzzle is already in place.

In OB we trust.

mussop
03-11-2014, 08:50 AM
We spend all this time discussing attributes of the various players and specifically qb's , but I think half the guys that will be busts would be succesfull given the right opportunity. Put Carr with an average oline and kubiak day 1 and I think his career is significantly different. It really boils down to " in BOB we trust."

What I don't like is:

We have a lg and rt we have to upgrade.

We have a rg we expect to get better - but no guarantees

We have a run game based on Foster who is arguably injury prone at this point and definitely older. How much production does he have left in the tank , and how important is a run game to a young qb?

We have a coach who some people laud as good at grooming qb's when in fact he had brady and remains unproven in that capacity.

BOB has no offensive coordinator so how much of his time will be dedicated to everything excluding his new qb?

These are all just elements in the moving puzzle for a qb's success , but they're things I don't see helping any qb no matter his skill set.

It's quite likely we can draft the right qb and still not have success due to the rest of the outside elements. Picking the wrong qb doesn't necessarily mean failure. Picking the wrong coach likely does and that part of the puzzle is already in place.

In OB we trust.
In regards to foster, something no one seems to be concerned about, how focused is he going to be? I would seriously see what we could get for him in trade if I were the gm.

TexansFTW
03-11-2014, 09:20 AM
Foster is 27. We have glaring holes everyone on this team with regards to defense and offense. Let's not throw in the towel on a 27 Y.O. RB after 1 injury riddled year and tear open a new hole.

Arian Foster, the poet doing strange things is the same guy that ran hard for us for several years. To say he is unfocused now isn't true. He's been this same guy for a while.

mussop
03-11-2014, 11:45 AM
Foster is 27. We have glaring holes everyone on this team with regards to defense and offense. Let's not throw in the towel on a 27 Y.O. RB after 1 injury riddled year and tear open a new hole.

Arian Foster, the poet doing strange things is the same guy that ran hard for us for several years. To say he is unfocused now isn't true. He's been this same guy for a while.

27 isn't exactly young for a RB. Especially one with as much mileage as fosters. As far as being focused, he's married with kids and got a young girl pregnant. That would take an emotional toll on anyone. The fact that every turn of that situation will be in the public eye makes it even more taxing on his emotions and it's not going away anytime soon.

I'm not suggesting cutting him. I'm suggesting getting something for him while we can. His cap hit is also a problem. Get rid of that and bring back a draft pick and it's a plus for this team IMO. This team could use those assets to fill several holes so suggesting it would it would tear a new hole is just not looking at the big picture.

WolverineFan
03-11-2014, 12:13 PM
I'm not suggesting cutting him. I'm suggesting getting something for him while we can. His cap hit is also a problem. Get rid of that and bring back a draft pick and it's a plus for this team IMO. This team could use those assets to fill several holes so suggesting it would it would tear a new hole is just not looking at the big picture.


Pretty sure if you trade him then you incur the dead money, not the team that acquires him. Trading him gets something for him, but you still take a cap hit.

Texian
03-11-2014, 01:07 PM
27 isn't exactly young for a RB. Especially one with as much mileage as fosters. As far as being focused, he's married with kids and got a young girl pregnant. That would take an emotional toll on anyone. The fact that every turn of that situation will be in the public eye makes it even more taxing on his emotions and it's not going away anytime soon.

I'm not suggesting cutting him. I'm suggesting getting something for him while we can. His cap hit is also a problem. Get rid of that and bring back a draft pick and it's a plus for this team IMO. This team could use those assets to fill several holes so suggesting it would it would tear a new hole is just not looking at the big picture.

Pretty sure if you trade him then you incur the dead money, not the team that acquires him. Trading him gets something for him, but you still take a cap hit.

Cut him or trade him all amortized money comes forward, the dead money would be the same. As noted a trade brings some value in return. The benefit of either is it removes salary from future years cap. There are two questions regarding Foster, his injury and surgery and Foster is a product of the ZBS and how effective would he be in another system.

jradMIT
03-11-2014, 01:43 PM
Come on you couldn't get a 4th rd pick for him right now, which really makes it not worth it in my mind.

infantrycak
03-11-2014, 01:53 PM
Cut him or trade him all amortized money comes forward, the dead money would be the same. As noted a trade brings some value in return. The benefit of either is it removes salary from future years cap. There are two questions regarding Foster, his injury and surgery and Foster is a product of the ZBS and how effective would he be in another system.

1) We don't know we are moving away from ZBS as the foundation of our rushing game and there are indications to the contrary.

2) CnD says Foster did not have a surgery in the parlance of the medical community (I have forgotten how he phrased it). I believe he is actually critical of the decision not to have surgery.

Come on you couldn't get a 4th rd pick for him right now, which really makes it not worth it in my mind.

Exactly. He is more valuable for the chance he does come back healthy.