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bah007
12-23-2013, 12:39 PM
Over the last few days I've been looking ahead to what this team looks like moving forward (because what else is there to do when we're this bad). I've worked up a list of likely transactions so that we can see what this team looks like going into FA and the Draft next year. Here's what I have so far.

Transactions
*Release Matt Schaub (June 1 Cut)
*Release Owen Daniels (June 1 Cut)
*Re-sign Deji Karim (RFA)
*Re-sign Garrett Graham
*Re-sign Ryan Harris
*Re-sign Earl Mitchell
*Re-sign Terrell McClain (RFA)
*Re-sign Ricky Sapp (RFA)
*Re-sign Joe Mays

Players Leaving
Matt Schaub - Cut
Greg Jones - FA
Owen Daniels - Cut
Wade Smith - FA
Antonio Smith - FA
Bryan Braman - FA
Darryl Sharpton - FA
Elbert Mack - FA

Offense
QB - Case Keenum, T.J. Yates
RB - Arian Foster, Dennis Johnson, Deji Karim
FB - N/A
WR - Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, DeVier Posey, Keshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, Alan Bonner, Alec Lemon
TE - Ryan Griffin, Garrett Graham, Brad Smelley
LT - Duane Brown, Ryan Harris
LG - David Quessenberry, Alex Kupper
C - Chris Myers, Ben Jones
RG - Brandon Brooks, Cody White
RT - Derek Newton, Brennan Williams

Defense (34)
DE - Tim Jamison
NT - Earl Mitchell, Terrell McClain
DT - J.J. Watt, Jared Crick
SOLB - Brooks Reed, Ricky Sapp
SILB - Brian Cushing, Mike Mohamed, Jeff Tarpinian
WILB - Joe Mays, Justin Tuggle
WOLB - Whitney Mercilus, Trevardo Williams
CB - Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Harris, Brice McCain, A.J. Bouye, Josh Victorian
FS - Danieal Manning, Shiloh Keo
SS - D.J. Swearinger, Eddie Pleasant, Jawanza Starling

Defense (43)
SDE - Brooks Reed, Tim Jamison
DT - J.J. Watt, Jared Crick
NT - Earl Mitchell, Terrell McClain
WDE - Whitney Mercilus, Ricky Sapp
SLB - Trevardo Williams, Justin Tuggle
MLB - Brian Cushing, Joe Mays, Mike Mohamed, Jeff Tarpinian
WLB - N/A
CB - Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Harris, Brice McCain, A.J. Bouye, Josh Victorian
FS - Danieal Manning, Shiloh Keo
SS - D.J. Swearinger, Eddie Pleasant, Jawanza Starling

Special Teams
K - Randy Bullock
P - Shane Lechler
LS - Jon Weeks

This gives us a starting point for discussion about where the team needs to go between now and the start of next season.

*Edit to cut Daniels and re-sign Graham, which seems unanimous. Also deciding to be less pessimistic and adding Sharpton to the list of players leaving (fingers crossed).

infantrycak
12-23-2013, 12:47 PM
Why re-sign Sharpton? Why not re-sign Smith and Graham?

JB
12-23-2013, 12:50 PM
Why keep McCain and Newton?

deucetx
12-23-2013, 12:55 PM
Applause for putting so much thought into it. Personally, I think it's too early since we have no idea who the coach will be so don't know the defensive formation that will be used or the offensive direction. More of a 'wait and see' situation before we can really evaluate the roster.

bah007
12-23-2013, 12:57 PM
Why keep McCain and Newton?

I only dealt with expiring contracts except for Schaub. I hope to God that we upgrade at both of those positions in either FA or the Draft. But I didn't want to speculate too much into which FA's we will sign or who we will draft.

I fully expect that one or both of those guys will not be with the team at the start of next year. But without knowing who will replace them I didn't want to list them as a transaction.

bah007
12-23-2013, 01:00 PM
Why re-sign Sharpton? Why not re-sign Smith and Graham?

I'm Sharpton's biggest critic and I hope he's gone, but I don't see it happening. For some reason this guy never gets demoted despite playing like garbage. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a new contract unfortunately.

Which Smith? Or both?

Graham's production this year may raise his price more than I think he's worth. I like him but I think with OD healthy he is our third best TE. I really like Griffin going into next year.

HOU-TEX
12-23-2013, 01:14 PM
Applause for putting so much thought into it. Personally, I think it's too early since we have no idea who the coach will be so don't know the defensive formation that will be used or the offensive direction. More of a 'wait and see' situation before we can really evaluate the roster.

This is my feeling as well.

It all depends on schemes brought in by the new staff. We'd need 2-3 olinemen if we were to switch to more of a power scheme, which I'm all for.

Honoring Earl 34
12-23-2013, 01:16 PM
I did this in October .

Right now I'm leaning toward Mike Zimmer or Jack Del Rio as coach .

Offense
LWR 80 JOHNSON, ANDRE
RWR 10 Hopkins, DeAndre 11 Posey, DeVier
LT 76 Brown, Duane
LG Gabe Jackson, G 2nd pick
C 55 MYERS, CHRIS
RG 79 Brooks, Brandon
RT Brennan Williams
TE 88 Graham, Garrett
QB Tajh Boyd 1st rd pick 7 Keenum, Case
FB J.C. Copeland,
RB 23 Foster, Arian 41 Wood, Cierre

Defense
LDE Watt, JJ
DT Earl Mitchell
DT DeAndre Coleman, 3rd rd
RDE 94 Whitney Mercilus , Sam Montgomery
SLB 58 Cushing, Brian
ILB Shayne Skov
WLB Willie Jefferson
LCB 25 Kareem Jackson
SS 38 MANNING, DANIEAL
FS 36 Swearinger, DJ
RCB

Wolf6151
12-23-2013, 01:17 PM
I hope your wrong about Darryl Sharpton, he needs to be gone. As for TE, I'd cut OD and keep Graham as I think he'll be just as good and alot cheaper than OD.

badboy
12-23-2013, 01:19 PM
Over the last few days I've been looking ahead to what this team looks like moving forward (because what else is there to do when we're this bad). I've worked up a list of likely transactions so that we can see what this team looks like going into FA and the Draft next year. Here's what I have so far.

Transactions
*Release Matt Schaub (June 1 Cut)
*Re-sign Deji Karim (RFA)
*Re-sign Ryan Harris
*Re-sign Earl Mitchell
*Re-sign Terrell McClain (RFA)
*Re-sign Ricky Sapp (RFA)
*Re-sign Darryl Sharpton

Players Leaving
Matt Schaub - Cut
Greg Jones - FA
Garrett Graham - FA
Wade Smith - FA
Antonio Smith - FA
Bryan Braman - FA
Joe Mays - FA
Elbert Mack - FA

Offense
QB - Case Keenum, T.J. Yates
RB - Arian Foster, Dennis Johnson, Deji Karim
FB - N/A
WR - Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, DeVier Posey, Keshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, Alan Bonner, Alec Lemon
TE - Owen Daniels, Ryan Griffin, Brad Smelley
LT - Duane Brown, Ryan Harris
LG - David Quessenberry, Alex Kupper
C - Chris Myers, Ben Jones
RG - Brandon Brooks, Cody White
RT - Derek Newton, Brennan Williams

Defense (34)
DE - Tim Jamison
NT - Earl Mitchell, Terrell McClain
DT - J.J. Watt, Jared Crick
SOLB - Brooks Reed, Ricky Sapp
SILB - Brian Cushing, Mike Mohamed, Jeff Tarpinian
WILB - Darryl Sharpton, Justin Tuggle
WOLB - Whitney Mercilus, Trevardo Williams
CB - Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Harris, Brice McCain, A.J. Bouye, Josh Victorian
FS - Danieal Manning, Shiloh Keo
SS - D.J. Swearinger, Eddie Pleasant, Jawanza Starling

Defense (43)
SDE - Brooks Reed, Tim Jamison
DT - J.J. Watt, Jared Crick
NT - Earl Mitchell, Terrell McClain
WDE - Whitney Mercilus, Ricky Sapp
SLB - Trevardo Williams, Justin Tuggle
MLB - Brian Cushing, Darryl Sharpton, Mike Mohamed, Jeff Tarpinian
WLB - N/A
CB - Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Harris, Brice McCain, A.J. Bouye, Josh Victorian
FS - Danieal Manning, Shiloh Keo
SS - D.J. Swearinger, Eddie Pleasant, Jawanza Starling

Special Teams
K - Randy Bullock
P - Shane Lechler
LS - Jon Weeks

This gives us a starting point for discussion about where the team needs to go between now and the start of next season.

Appreciate the work and time you put into this. Just my thoughts for now:

Transactions: Ryan Harris gone depending on whom I draft. McClain gone if I get my NT. Sharpton gone no matter what. He had a very well paid medical leave career. No thoughts on Sapp.

Players leaving: I would offer very low contracts to Graham & Mays.

Team: Newton is cheap & I want to see how he does healthy. Cut later if needed. I would be ok giving Martin & Jean's jobs to others. Brice McCain replaced with a draft pick. Probably allow OD to leave especially if Graham returns. Manning is my concern now. If I get Smallwood (ILB) and Carrethers (NT) I think I would risk letting Manning be replaced by my Marqueston Huff. Joseph appears to be returning to form. We need to see more of Pleasant & Starling.

To bad this seems to be a weak off season for free agents as we could have some $ to go shopping.

badboy
12-23-2013, 01:21 PM
This is my feeling as well.

It all depends on schemes brought in by the new staff. We'd need 2-3 olinemen if we were to switch to more of a power scheme, which I'm all for.Not disagree but give your thoughts. I am still evaluating my next mock and really want to go to power scheme.

infantrycak
12-23-2013, 01:23 PM
Which Smith? Or both?

Graham's production this year may raise his price more than I think he's worth. I like him but I think with OD healthy he is our third best TE. I really like Griffin going into next year.

Antonio.

Sure it is price dependent on Graham. Gotta have a 3rd TE so there is the cost in picks or dollars to replace him.

bah007
12-23-2013, 01:25 PM
I hope your wrong about Darryl Sharpton, he needs to be gone. As for TE, I'd cut OD and keep Graham as I think he'll be just as good and alot cheaper than OD.

I don't think Graham will be the player Daniels was in his prime. He's a personal favorite of mine and maybe I'm just being tough on him because I expected more. I really liked him a lot in college and thought he would be a very good pro.

I do think that in the long run the best option would be to cut OD and let Graham and Griffin battle. But I think the emphasis from the owner on a quick turnaround may cause the front office to make some shortsighted decisions.

bah007
12-23-2013, 01:28 PM
Antonio.

Sure it is price dependent on Graham. Gotta have a 3rd TE so there is the cost in picks or dollars to replace him.

I would like Antonio to come back but we're not in a great spot as far as the cap is concerned, so again it would come down to cost.

HOU-TEX
12-23-2013, 01:30 PM
Not disagree but give your thoughts. I am still evaluating my next mock and really want to go to power scheme.

Not to say they wouldn't suffice, but Smith, Myers and Newton would need replacing. Smith and Newton for obvious reasons. Myers isn't the mauling type C we'd need to run a lot of power. He's a good fit for the ZBS because he's moving side to side rather than anchoring or mauling.

Maybe I'm just old school, but when I think of power I think of olinemen with some sand in their pants.

bah007
12-23-2013, 01:33 PM
Appreciate the work and time you put into this. Just my thoughts for now:

Transactions: Ryan Harris gone depending on whom I draft. McClain gone if I get my NT. Sharpton gone no matter what. He had a very well paid medical leave career. No thoughts on Sapp.

Players leaving: I would offer very low contracts to Graham & Mays.

Team: Newton is cheap & I want to see how he does healthy. Cut later if needed. I would be ok giving Martin & Jean's jobs to others. Brice McCain replaced with a draft pick. Probably allow OD to leave especially if Graham returns. Manning is my concern now. If I get Smallwood (ILB) and Carrethers (NT) I think I would risk letting Manning be replaced by my Marqueston Huff. Joseph appears to be returning to form. We need to see more of Pleasant & Starling.

To bad this seems to be a weak off season for free agents as we could have some $ to go shopping.

I like Harris as a swing tackle more than I like Newton. Either way OL is a problem right now.

Agree that McClain is expendable. He's a depth player.

I pray that Sharpton is gone but do not feel confident that he will be.

Would also like Graham and Mays back for the right price.

I think Martin is safe. Jean is easily replaceable.

I would like McCain gone but we'll have to see who comes in his place first. We are so weak with our DB depth right now that we can't even afford to let the marginally talented ones go.

Marcus
12-23-2013, 01:58 PM
Players Leaving
Matt Schaub - Cut
Greg Jones - FA
Garrett Graham - FA
Wade Smith - FA
Antonio Smith - FA
Bryan Braman - FA
Joe Mays - FA
Elbert Mack - FA


Schaub won't be the only one cut. I fully expect Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning, and Owen Daniels to be June 1st salary cap casualties. Their current contracts call for each of them to be paid at least 4 mil, and they ain't worth it.

bah007
12-23-2013, 02:02 PM
Schaub won't be the only one cut. I fully expect Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning, and Owen Daniels to be June 1st salary cap casualties. Their current contracts call for each of them to be paid at least 4 mil, and they ain't worth it.

I would be fine with giving up OD and keeping Graham.

I have a hard time saying okay to Joseph and Manning though. That's our best CB and our best S. I know they are expensive but without those two next year we are probably sporting the worst secondary in the NFL....again.

TexansFTW
12-23-2013, 02:02 PM
All of our depth is replaceable and it's honestly no better than the depth that will be available on the streets for cheap next year.

You should probably add, cut OD to this list as well. I like the guy just as much as everyone, but $4.5 mill is a lot of money we could save cutting a guy that is borderline worthless in about 80% of offenses in the NFL, which is what he is. This won't be Kubiak forcing the TE the ball 7 yards short of the chains on 3rd down next year.

He's also 31, pretty slow, has knee/leg issues, and he barely catches 60% of his intended passes anymore when he's supposed to be used as a possession receiver. Sorry OD, but you can hit the road jack.

We also need to get JJ Watt his mega contract before he hits free agency at end of 2014 season, likely before the start of 2014 season. Once that happens, I imagine any cap space we might have had will be completely erased (this includes the $10.5 mill dead money from cutting Schaub).

At least we will get some compensatory picks in 2015 draft though when we let all these bums walk.

Exascor
12-23-2013, 02:12 PM
Schaub won't be the only one cut. I fully expect Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning, and Owen Daniels to be June 1st salary cap casualties. Their current contracts call for each of them to be paid at least 4 mil, and they ain't worth it.

I think you can only designate 2 players as June 1st cuts.

I would take the entire dead money hit for any cuts in 2014. That would let the new coach evaluate the talent on the roster in 2014 and fill holes in 2015. Not to mention Mr Watt will be wanting a raise.

Unless we find solid replacements, I'd keep Manning and Joseph. They may be pretty good with a better system. OD would need to take a pay cut. Schaub can take a hike.

badboy
12-23-2013, 02:22 PM
Not to say they wouldn't suffice, but Smith, Myers and Newton would need replacing. Smith and Newton for obvious reasons. Myers isn't the mauling type C we'd need to run a lot of power. He's a good fit for the ZBS because he's moving side to side rather than anchoring or mauling.

Maybe I'm just old school, but when I think of power I think of olinemen with some sand in their pants.yeah me too and I think the decision on HC will be made quickly. If we toss the ZBS, I wonder if Jones who could handle the position in a power O? Also, Newton could be better blocking especially with one more season to build strength. I still scratch my head when we don't use a blocking TE on that side.

badboy
12-23-2013, 02:26 PM
I like Harris as a swing tackle more than I like Newton. Either way OL is a problem right now.

Agree that McClain is expendable. He's a depth player.

I pray that Sharpton is gone but do not feel confident that he will be.

Would also like Graham and Mays back for the right price.

I think Martin is safe. Jean is easily replaceable.

I would like McCain gone but we'll have to see who comes in his place first. We are so weak with our DB depth right now that we can't even afford to let the marginally talented ones go.In my thinking, Matthews is the starter RT and if need be the left. Newton moves up to RT only.

You are probably correct on Martin. I think if Wade goes Sharpton is done.

badboy
12-23-2013, 02:32 PM
All of our depth is replaceable and it's honestly no better than the depth that will be available on the streets for cheap next year.

You should probably add, cut OD to this list as well. I like the guy just as much as everyone, but $4.5 mill is a lot of money we could save cutting a guy that is borderline worthless in about 80% of offenses in the NFL, which is what he is. This won't be Kubiak forcing the TE the ball 7 yards short of the chains on 3rd down next year.

He's also 31, pretty slow, has knee/leg issues, and he barely catches 60% of his intended passes anymore when he's supposed to be used as a possession receiver. Sorry OD, but you can hit the road jack.

We also need to get JJ Watt his mega contract before he hits free agency at end of 2014 season, likely before the start of 2014 season. Once that happens, I imagine any cap space we might have had will be completely erased (this includes the $10.5 mill dead money from cutting Schaub).

At least we will get some compensatory picks in 2015 draft though when we let all these bums walk.

Agree with you on OD but why do we need to give Watt a contract? IIRC you have said this before but not why when he is under contract for 2014 & we can franchise tag him for at least two additional seasons cheaper than a mega deal would pay him? I'm not sure but maybe what we should have done with Cushing.

badboy
12-23-2013, 02:39 PM
I would be fine with giving up OD and keeping Graham.

I have a hard time saying okay to Joseph and Manning though. That's our best CB and our best S. I know they are expensive but without those two next year we are probably sporting the worst secondary in the NFL....again.As Joseph seems to be playing better and he turns 30 April 2014, would you cash him out ($16 million next two years) and extending him another two years? You could lower his cap hit a lot and he would be 32 & 33 YOA last two seasons. Non guarantee the last one.

bah007
12-23-2013, 02:41 PM
yeah me too and I think the decision on HC will be made quickly. If we toss the ZBS, I wonder if Jones who could handle the position in a power O? Also, Newton could be better blocking especially with one more season to build strength. I still scratch my head when we don't use a blocking TE on that side.

I always projected Jones as a OC in the NFL. He's only been playing OG because we're so bad there. I think he eventually replaces Myers.

Moving away from the ZBS is a scary thought because it would make Myers expendable, but we're so bad on the OL that some kind of rebuild will be necessary no matter what. Might as well let the new staff make the choice.

infantrycak
12-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Not to say they wouldn't suffice, but Smith, Myers and Newton would need replacing. Smith and Newton for obvious reasons. Myers isn't the mauling type C we'd need to run a lot of power. He's a good fit for the ZBS because he's moving side to side rather than anchoring or mauling.

Maybe I'm just old school, but when I think of power I think of olinemen with some sand in their pants.

Mark Stepnoski did just fine at 265 lbs in just about the quintessential power blocking O.

I like the guy just as much as everyone, but $4.5 mill is a lot of money we could save cutting a guy that is borderline worthless in about 80% of offenses in the NFL, which is what he is. This won't be Kubiak forcing the TE the ball 7 yards short of the chains on 3rd down next year.

Disagree he is useless in other offenses.

Man those sticks must be a long way off. OD averages 12 ypr. Two-thirds of his receptions are for 1st downs.

Agree with you on OD but why do we need to give Watt a contract? IIRC you have said this before but not why when he is under contract for 2014 & we can franchise tag him for at least two additional seasons cheaper than a mega deal would pay him? I'm not sure but maybe what we should have done with Cushing.

Under contract 2014, option year 2015 then franchise tag 2 years. People are way, way jumping the gun on Watt.

Moving away from the ZBS is a scary thought because it would make Myers expendable, but we're so bad on the OL that some kind of rebuild will be necessary no matter what. Might as well let the new staff make the choice.

We are two spots away and one may be on the roster already. This OL can be fixed up for ZBS again in a heartbeat.

bah007
12-23-2013, 02:45 PM
As Joseph seems to be playing better and he turns 30 April 2014, would you cash him out ($16 million next two years) and extending him another two years? You could lower his cap hit a lot and he would be 32 & 33 YOA last two seasons. Non guarantee the last one.

Hard to say this early. Really depends on what the emphasis will be drafting DBs with the new staff. Regardless of how much Joseph has regressed he is still the best DB on the team, and likely will be for the next two or three years.

Texan4Ever
12-23-2013, 02:51 PM
Over the last few days I've been looking ahead to what this team looks like moving forward (because what else is there to do when we're this bad). I've worked up a list of likely transactions so that we can see what this team looks like going into FA and the Draft next year. Here's what I have so far.

Transactions
*Release Matt Schaub (June 1 Cut)
*Release Owen Daniels (June 1 Cut)
*Re-sign Deji Karim (RFA)
*Re-sign Garrett Graham
*Re-sign Ryan Harris
*Re-sign Earl Mitchell
*Re-sign Terrell McClain (RFA)
*Re-sign Ricky Sapp (RFA)
*Re-sign Joe Mays

Players Leaving
Matt Schaub - Cut
Greg Jones - FA
Owen Daniels - Cut
Wade Smith - FA
Antonio Smith - FA
Bryan Braman - FA
Darryl Sharpton - FA
Elbert Mack - FA

Offense
QB - Case Keenum, T.J. Yates
RB - Arian Foster, Dennis Johnson, Deji Karim
FB - N/A
WR - Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, DeVier Posey, Keshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, Alan Bonner, Alec Lemon
TE - Ryan Griffin, Garrett Graham, Brad Smelley
LT - Duane Brown, Ryan Harris
LG - David Quessenberry, Alex Kupper
C - Chris Myers, Ben Jones
RG - Brandon Brooks, Cody White
RT - Derek Newton, Brennan Williams

Defense (34)
DE - Tim Jamison
NT - Earl Mitchell, Terrell McClain
DT - J.J. Watt, Jared Crick
SOLB - Brooks Reed, Ricky Sapp
SILB - Brian Cushing, Mike Mohamed, Jeff Tarpinian
WILB - Joe Mays, Justin Tuggle
WOLB - Whitney Mercilus, Trevardo Williams
CB - Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Harris, Brice McCain, A.J. Bouye, Josh Victorian
FS - Danieal Manning, Shiloh Keo
SS - D.J. Swearinger, Eddie Pleasant, Jawanza Starling

Defense (43)
SDE - Brooks Reed, Tim Jamison
DT - J.J. Watt, Jared Crick
NT - Earl Mitchell, Terrell McClain
WDE - Whitney Mercilus, Ricky Sapp
SLB - Trevardo Williams, Justin Tuggle
MLB - Brian Cushing, Joe Mays, Mike Mohamed, Jeff Tarpinian
WLB - N/A
CB - Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Harris, Brice McCain, A.J. Bouye, Josh Victorian
FS - Danieal Manning, Shiloh Keo
SS - D.J. Swearinger, Eddie Pleasant, Jawanza Starling

Special Teams
K - Randy Bullock
P - Shane Lechler
LS - Jon Weeks

This gives us a starting point for discussion about where the team needs to go between now and the start of next season.

*Edit to cut Daniels and re-sign Graham, which seems unanimous. Also deciding to be less pessimistic and adding Sharpton to the list of players leaving (fingers crossed).

First of all I appreciate it you taking the time to put this together. I'd like to see us draft/sign a bigger NT if we stick with a 3-4 rather than go after guys with "finesse."

I would also like to see us draft a RB or sign a player...not a fan of Karim and Johnson is to small to be a RB (I would use him strictly as a pass-catching RB). I see some solid RBs in the upcoming draft that we could target.

HOU-TEX
12-23-2013, 03:31 PM
Mark Stepnoski did just fine at 265 lbs in just about the quintessential power blocking O.


I'm sure he was just fine....in the 90's.

Drew Brees is an awesome QB for being only 6'. How many Drew Brees' are there?

More of an exception than the rule

bah007
12-23-2013, 05:35 PM
We are two spots away and one may be on the roster already. This OL can be fixed up for ZBS again in a heartbeat.

I don't entirely disagree. Brown and Myers are the only sure things though, and this hasn't exactly been Brown's best year. Brooks is coming along but he's not a sure thing. Quess looks like he has potential but who really knows.

If we stay with the ZBS then we're basically just hoping that Brooks will keep improving (likely), that Quess will fill in just fine (not exactly unlikely), and that we will find a RT (who knows). And that's just assuming that the new staff wants to keep that system.

If we move away from it then all bets are off. Brown would probably be okay. Brooks might be better off. Myers becomes less valuable. Quess is still a question mark. And we still need a RT.

I don't think this entire team needs to be overhauled but as I look at the roster I don't see a very talented team. I would rather we get it right in the long term than just focus on trying to turn it around in a heartbeat.

CretorFrigg
12-23-2013, 05:37 PM
I'm more concerned about the QB situation. We don't have a starting QB on the roster.

Honoring Earl 34
12-23-2013, 05:49 PM
I'm more concerned about the QB situation. We don't have a starting QB on the roster.

The Texans can be the 1st team in history to pick 4 QBs in a draft . You're bound to hit on one .

Corrosion
12-23-2013, 05:54 PM
To be honest , the biggest question is .... Who's the QB. That'll have a greater impact upon W's & L's both next season and beyond than any other factor.

Do we draft a QB with either the #1 overall or a trade down .... Do we sign a Vet FA , do we tank away another season for an opportunity at one of next years crop?!

The Pencil Neck
12-23-2013, 06:03 PM
The biggest questions for me are:

1. Who is our Coach?
2. Who does he get as his OC?
3. Who is our QB?

Which QB we go after will depend on the OC and the HC and their philosophies.

Everything hinges on that: whether we even have a FB and/or how prized the TE position will be, whether our current linemen just need to be tweaked or if we have to make wholesale changes, whether we need to revamp our WR corp or not.

And the same holds true on the defensive side. Will we get a space-eater NT? Will we go to a more traditional 3-4, to a traditional 4-3, or to some hybrid?

Are our coaches going to have to take the players that Smith gives to them and create offenses and defenses around that or are the coaches going to give Smith the list of wants and needs? Is Smith even going to be around?

We've got to get the high-level stuff worked out and figured out before we can get down to the details of this guy goes, this guy stays, and we draft like this.

thunderkyss
12-23-2013, 07:51 PM
I'm Sharpton's biggest critic and I hope he's gone, but I don't see it happening. For some reason this guy never gets demoted despite playing like garbage. I


Which is the beauty of a new coaching staff. Surely he's gone. Can't stay healthy, not enough "Wow!!" when he is healthy, & these guys coming in don't know him from Adam...... or Tarpinian, or Muhammed.

Thorn
12-23-2013, 08:07 PM
Unless there is a drastic change in the Texans culture, we ain't gonna look a whole lot different than we ever have.

drs23
12-23-2013, 10:34 PM
Unless there is a drastic change in the Texans culture, we ain't gonna look a whole lot different than we ever have.

I thought that was the point of all these coaching changes and the such, eh?

JB
12-23-2013, 10:53 PM
I thought that was the point of all these coaching changes and the such, eh?

Them fish ain't swam up the river yet

drs23
12-23-2013, 11:06 PM
Them fish ain't swam up the river yet

They'll get a move on. I hope. Shirley this org. can get it's stuff together and turn it around quicker than the_______ and the ________ and...

Well you get the point.

At least I'm holding out hope. :scarygirl:

Thorn
12-23-2013, 11:25 PM
I thought that was the point of all these coaching changes and the such, eh?

Same owner and GM.


Them fish ain't swam up the river yet


Exactly. I'll just wait and see who is hired before I get to excited.

BullNation4Life
12-24-2013, 12:08 AM
The biggest questions for me are:

1. Who is our Coach?
2. Who does he get as his OC?
3. Who is our QB?



Lovie Smith - HC
Norv Turner - OC
Jay Cutler - QB

they go to a Tampa 2 defense, move Brooks Reed inside and draft Clowney #1 to play DE with Watt and Mercelius.

They keep Manning because Lovie and Manning have a history, J-Jo stays, Schaub and Daniels are history. Resign Jackson and Mitchell and Mays.

Not saying I want this to happen, but knowing who the owner is, I can soooo see this happening...

Lambert
12-24-2013, 02:06 AM
Clowney had a good Junior season but has struggled this year. Futhermore, he has been accused of taking plays off. Texans really need a QB. Does anyone think that we should waste a 1st pick on a "maybe" when our D has looked pretty good, rather than go after a QB that could be a franchise maker?

HOU-TEX
12-24-2013, 09:09 AM
Lovie Smith - HC
Norv Turner - OC
Jay Cutler - QB

they go to a Tampa 2 defense, move Brooks Reed inside and draft Clowney #1 to play DE with Watt and Mercelius.

They keep Manning because Lovie and Manning have a history, J-Jo stays, Schaub and Daniels are history. Resign Jackson and Mitchell and Mays.

Not saying I want this to happen, but knowing who the owner is, I can soooo see this happening...

Good grief! I just gagged on my coffee reading this list

thunderkyss
12-24-2013, 11:08 AM
I always projected Jones as a OC in the NFL. He's only been playing OG because we're so bad there. I think he eventually replaces Myers.

Moving away from the ZBS is a scary thought because it would make Myers expendable, but we're so bad on the OL that some kind of rebuild will be necessary no matter what. Might as well let the new staff make the choice.

ZBS is a huge part of the NFL. Every team incorporates quite a bit of zone blocking principals. We were a ZBS team before Kubiak got here.

Our problem then, is that we focused too much on the running game. Most likely because we didn't have a franchise QB.

The Colts with Peyton & the Edge were a potent Zone Blocking team. They just didn't talk about it because they had Peyton.

bigmck
12-24-2013, 11:43 AM
Lovie Smith - HC
Norv Turner - OC
Jay Cutler - QB


I sure hope not. That is a trio of retreads. Lovie might be OK, but not the other two.

bah007
12-24-2013, 01:44 PM
ZBS is a huge part of the NFL. Every team incorporates quite a bit of zone blocking principals. We were a ZBS team before Kubiak got here.

Our problem then, is that we focused too much on the running game. Most likely because we didn't have a franchise QB.

The Colts with Peyton & the Edge were a potent Zone Blocking team. They just didn't talk about it because they had Peyton.

I don't disagree at all. It's just pretty obvious that we have been structured entirely for a system built on zone blocking principles. If we move away from that scheme we will need to change up the OL a bit.

Zone blocking is in every playbook in the league, but we're one of the only teams that uses it as an integral part of the offense, i.e. we even look for different skillsets among backs and linemen than most teams in the league.

That is my main issue with the offense that we've been running. It is structurally different from most others and therefore requires a specific type of personnel. Which is fine except that we are basically starting from scrap if we decide to move to something else.

bckey
12-26-2013, 04:58 AM
Lovie Smith - HC
Norv Turner - OC
Jay Cutler - QB

they go to a Tampa 2 defense, move Brooks Reed inside and draft Clowney #1 to play DE with Watt and Mercelius.

They keep Manning because Lovie and Manning have a history, J-Jo stays, Schaub and Daniels are history. Resign Jackson and Mitchell and Mays.

Not saying I want this to happen, but knowing who the owner is, I can soooo see this happening...


Good grief! I just gagged on my coffee reading this list

I sure hope not. That is a trio of retreads. Lovie might be OK, but not the other two.



I was laughing reading through this thread because of the reactions by you guys to some of the potential coaching candidates. I can't believe that you guys let this one below slide which I think is worse than the trio of retreads.




Right now I'm leaning toward Mike Zimmer or Jack Del Rio as coach .



I still want Ray Horton but I bet it is going to be Lovie Smith or Ken Whisenhunt.

steelbtexan
12-26-2013, 07:58 AM
To be honest , the biggest question is .... Who's the QB. That'll have a greater impact upon W's & L's both next season and beyond than any other factor.

Do we draft a QB with either the #1 overall or a trade down .... Do we sign a Vet FA , do we tank away another season for an opportunity at one of next years crop?!

My answer would be C and draft somebody like Murray in the 4th if available, if not pass ondrafting a QB this yr. Even if they drafted a QB in the 3rd/4th this yr I make it a priority to trade up and get one of the 2015 QB's to compete with Murray.

Rick will do A

I would be fine with B.

Sign Terrance Cody in FA, he should be a reasonable signing. Then draft Clowney in the 1st and Carrethers in the 4th and you've fixed the DL/added a prmier pass rusher and then you can go to work on the OL.

dalemurphy
12-26-2013, 09:24 AM
My answer would be C and draft somebody like Murray in the 4th if available, if not pass ondrafting a QB this yr. Even if they drafted a QB in the 3rd/4th this yr I make it a priority to trade up and get one of the 2015 QB's to compete with Murray.

Rick will do A

I would be fine with B.

Sign Terrance Cody in FA, he should be a reasonable signing. Then draft Clowney in the 1st and Carrethers in the 4th and you've fixed the DL/added a prmier pass rusher and then you can go to work on the OL.

Since 2000, there have been two, or three(depending on where you rate Bradford), draft classes that have not produced at least one, good starting QB...

There are about 7 teams that will enter the off-season determined to find a starting QB. The texans, due to their draft position, have an advantage over all of those teams. Also, jokes about the Texan organization aside, these are bad organizations we will compete against: TB, Minn, Jack, Clev, etc.... An environment this advantageous to address the most coveted position in the NFL is very rare. The Texans must take advantage of it... Perhaps that means trading some picks this year for picks next year... My guess, though, is there are a few NFL quality QBs in this draft. The new staff will need to identify who they are, grab one or two of them, and then successfully develop him/them.

TexansFTW
12-26-2013, 12:49 PM
Agree with you on OD but why do we need to give Watt a contract? IIRC you have said this before but not why when he is under contract for 2014 & we can franchise tag him for at least two additional seasons cheaper than a mega deal would pay him? I'm not sure but maybe what we should have done with Cushing.

Maybe you're right. Time will tell. I doubt I'm wrong though, there are certain players in every organization you don't yank around w/ franchise tags, and there are guys that you do (guys you don't generally see as an integral part of your team's future... and kickers). Most of the integral guys that get tagged: Calais Campbell, Ray Rice, Drew Brees, Matt Forte, etc. all got their long term mega contracts before their respective seasons started whereas the guys that didn't get that extension mostly all parted ways Wes Welker, Brent Grimes, Cliff Avril, etc.

Disagree he is useless in other offenses.

Man those sticks must be a long way off. OD averages 12 ypr. Two-thirds of his receptions are for 1st downs.

I'll be incredibly shocked if he catches anything like or better than 45/450/4 anywhere in the NFL next year. I'll be incredibly shocked if his days aren't numbered the year after.

My answer would be C and draft somebody like Murray in the 4th if available, if not pass ondrafting a QB this yr. Even if they drafted a QB in the 3rd/4th this yr I make it a priority to trade up and get one of the 2015 QB's to compete with Murray.

I pray C never comes up. I can't do 4 years of Cleveland Brown football.

Since 2000, there have been two, or three(depending on where you rate Bradford), draft classes that have not produced at least one, good starting QB...

There are about 7 teams that will enter the off-season determined to find a starting QB. The texans, due to their draft position, have an advantage over all of those teams. Also, jokes about the Texan organization aside, these are bad organizations we will compete against: TB, Minn, Jack, Clev, etc.... An environment this advantageous to address the most coveted position in the NFL is very rare. The Texans must take advantage of it... Perhaps that means trading some picks this year for picks next year... My guess, though, is there are a few NFL quality QBs in this draft. The new staff will need to identify who they are, grab one or two of them, and then successfully develop him/them.

Well stated.

BullNation4Life
12-26-2013, 07:02 PM
Good grief! I just gagged on my coffee reading this list

Hell I gagged when I was typing it, yet tell me that list does not look like and fit what Bob McNair considers "Texans Worthy"

that is gonna be my biggest fear for this next hire, not getting the right man for the job, weather he is a former HC or OC or College coach, but somebody that is viewed as a "Texans Worthy" type of coach.

we saw that fail for 8 years...

JB
12-26-2013, 07:04 PM
Hell I gagged when I was typing it, yet tell me that list does not look like and fit what Bob McNair considers "Texans Worthy"

that is gonna be my biggest fear for this next hire, not getting the right man for the job, weather he is a former HC or OC or College coach, but somebody that is viewed as a "Texans Worthy" type of coach.

we saw that fail for 8 years...

I think we can have "Texans Worthy" and have a good dynamic coaching staff


The failure was not that Kubiak was Texans worthy, the problem was Kubiak

Seegara
12-26-2013, 07:45 PM
With the other pressing needs, we haven't said much about fullback. We have to get a new one from somewhere. I say that in spite of doing a postdoc at Fla. State. I hope we get a coach who uses the FB as a power runner. That's one reason Cowher would have been a good choice.

BigBull
12-26-2013, 08:09 PM
With the other pressing needs, we haven't said much about fullback. We have to get a new one from somewhere. I say that in spite of doing a postdoc at Fla. State. I hope we get a coach who uses the FB as a power runner. That's one reason Cowher would have been a good choice.


I think it has to do with the fact that most teams don't use fbs anymore making it the most unimportant position in the nfl.


Sent from the future...

aussie_texan
12-26-2013, 08:48 PM
i want to put it on the record that we re-sign ninja to a fair contract for both parties. with cuts to OD and schaub this could easily be achieved while also left over to re-sign watt in a few years

thunderkyss
12-26-2013, 09:17 PM
Agree with you on OD but why do we need to give Watt a contract? IIRC you have said this before but not why when he is under contract for 2014 & we can franchise tag him for at least two additional seasons cheaper than a mega deal would pay him? I'm not sure but maybe what we should have done with Cushing.

The idea about offering him a deal early is because you want him to take the security of getting his money now & not betting on his future.

Offer him a deal today putting him in the top 5 DE will be cheaper than making him the highest paid defensive player in history 3 years from now.

Sure... Watt can wait, but when they're talking about $20+ million signing bonuses & $50~60 million guaranteed.

We dangle that money in front of him now & he has to decide if he wants to take it, or "wait" 3 years & who knows what will happen in 3 years.

If we wait, then franchise him, then offer him "peanuts" then he's only got to weigh a 1 year wait.

badboy
12-26-2013, 09:23 PM
I don't entirely disagree. Brown and Myers are the only sure things though, and this hasn't exactly been Brown's best year. Brooks is coming along but he's not a sure thing. Quess looks like he has potential but who really knows.

If we stay with the ZBS then we're basically just hoping that Brooks will keep improving (likely), that Quess will fill in just fine (not exactly unlikely), and that we will find a RT (who knows). And that's just assuming that the new staff wants to keep that system.

If we move away from it then all bets are off. Brown would probably be okay. Brooks might be better off. Myers becomes less valuable. Quess is still a question mark. And we still need a RT.

I don't think this entire team needs to be overhauled but as I look at the roster I don't see a very talented team. I would rather we get it right in the long term than just focus on trying to turn it around in a heartbeat.
I think team can remain a ZBS although I hope not or go to power O. We need to get a RT but that can be done. I also think we can select someone like Cyril R for a starting LG or RT in second. I am just hoping Mariota's request for an NFL appraisal means he will come out. I take him #1 and I think he is keeping eye on TB's decision.

badboy
12-26-2013, 09:31 PM
i want to put it on the record that we re-sign ninja to a fair contract for both parties. with cuts to OD and schaub this could easily be achieved while also left over to re-sign watt in a few years
I think the problem is a fair contract for Ninja is more than we should pay.

badboy
12-26-2013, 09:35 PM
The idea about offering him a deal early is because you want him to take the security of getting his money now & not betting on his future.

Offer him a deal today putting him in the top 5 DE will be cheaper than making him the highest paid defensive player in history 3 years from now.

Sure... Watt can wait, but when they're talking about $20+ million signing bonuses & $50~60 million guaranteed.

We dangle that money in front of him now & he has to decide if he wants to take it, or "wait" 3 years & who knows what will happen in 3 years.

If we wait, then franchise him, then offer him "peanuts" then he's only got to weigh a 1 year wait.If you sign Watt to extension after 2014 & then contract him again after that he will cost a whole lot more than optioning 2015 & the tagging for two additional years & then deciding to contract him.

bah007
12-26-2013, 10:03 PM
With the other pressing needs, we haven't said much about fullback. We have to get a new one from somewhere. I say that in spite of doing a postdoc at Fla. State. I hope we get a coach who uses the FB as a power runner. That's one reason Cowher would have been a good choice.

Trey Millard (Oklahoma) is going to be a fantastic NFL FB. He can play about four different positions (including RB) depending on the personnel on the field. But the Texans can't afford to use a third rounder on the position.

thunderkyss
12-27-2013, 12:04 PM
I think the problem is a fair contract for Ninja is more than we should pay.

How much is too much? The "senior" DL didn't get the money they thought they would in 2013 offseason. No one is going to offer Antonio a ****load of money.

WolverineFan
12-27-2013, 12:06 PM
I would prefer to sign Justin Tuck in FA than bring back Ninja, but his salary will probably be even higher and not something we can afford.

drs23
12-27-2013, 02:56 PM
I would prefer to sign Justin Tuck in FA than bring back Ninja, but his salary will probably be even higher and not something we can afford.

First bolded is a dream because of the second bolded.

aussie_texan
12-27-2013, 06:30 PM
I think the problem is a fair contract for Ninja is more than we should pay.

his been the 2nd best player on our defence for the last 2 if not 3 years.
A fair contract for him will be a fair contract for us as well. we won't need to pay an exorbitant amount for him i think