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dalemurphy
12-22-2013, 12:05 PM
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Assuming this is accurate, I'm interested in your thoughts on this possibility. Given the wide range of views regarding the team's current cap health, talent level, etc... I'm interested in simply reading the various thoughts on this idea.

I'm not sure what I think. Clearly, a lot will depend on the new coaching staff and the direction the coach wants to move... and also on AJ's attitude towards the forth-coming changes. Also, given that we will likely cut or trade OD this off-season for $6 million in cap savings, would moving AJ also be detrimental to the develop of a rookie QB's development? Or, perhaps it is a good idea to have WRs and a young QB develop together instead of a rookie QB being awestruck and over-dependent upon an All-pro veteran. I'm not sure.

How would other veterans perceive this move? Do we care? Will winning next season be a primary goal in the off-season or will 2014 be viewed as a reset?

Thoughts?

JB
12-22-2013, 12:24 PM
No

I want to and expect to see him retire a Texan

2slik4u
12-22-2013, 12:25 PM
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Assuming this is accurate, I'm interested in your thoughts on this possibility. Given the wide range of views regarding the team's current cap health, talent level, etc... I'm interested in simply reading the various thoughts on this idea.

I'm not sure what I think. Clearly, a lot will depend on the new coaching staff and the direction the coach wants to move... and also on AJ's attitude towards the forth-coming changes. Also, given that we will likely cut or trade OD this off-season for $6 million in cap savings, would moving AJ also be detrimental to the develop of a rookie QB's development? Or, perhaps it is a good idea to have WRs and a young QB develop together instead of a rookie QB being awestruck and over-dependent upon an All-pro veteran. I'm not sure.

How would other veterans perceive this move? Do we care? Will winning next season be a primary goal in the off-season or will 2014 be viewed as a reset?

Thoughts?

Not interested, myself. He's too valuable to lose. On pace for yet another 100 catch 1500 rec. yard season when he's supposed to be "aging". His mentoring will prove to be a huge advantage for these younger WRs development. Specifically Deandre as I don't think he is quite ready to take on lead WR duties.

There are three players on this team that are completely off limits to trades/cuts for whatever reason:

1. JJ Watt
2. Andre Johnson
3. Duane Brown

Everyone else is negotiable. Yes, even Cushing.

Andre needs to retire a Texan and have his number retired when he leaves.

jaayteetx
12-22-2013, 12:29 PM
No, prevailing thought throughout the league is the Texans aren't your typical team looking to rebuild and Andre is a big part of the reason why. Come back next year with a healthy Cushing, Foster and hopefully an upgrade at QB and they should be ready to contend again.

houstonspartan
12-22-2013, 12:47 PM
Not interested, myself. He's too valuable to lose. On pace for yet another 100 catch 1500 rec. yard season when he's supposed to be "aging". His mentoring will prove to be a huge advantage for these younger WRs development. Specifically Deandre as I don't think he is quite ready to take on lead WR duties.

There are three players on this team that are completely off limits to trades/cuts for whatever reason:

1. JJ Watt
2. Andre Johnson
3. Duane Brown

Everyone else is negotiable. Yes, even Cushing.

Andre needs to retire a Texan and have his number retired when he leaves.

I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.



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Thorn
12-22-2013, 12:49 PM
Why would anyone want to trade away one of the best receivers in the league?

Exascor
12-22-2013, 12:56 PM
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.
Just to clarify. Yes you could move him with no cap hit. No you won't save 12 million on the cap. You save 180k.

And I'm in the group that wants Johnson to retire as a Texan.

2slik4u
12-22-2013, 01:01 PM
I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Yeah...it's not because he isn't good. In fact, when on the field and 100% he is one of the most dominant MLB's I the league. Covers the pass, all over the field. He has all the tools.

The problem is he's only played two full seasons out of his five year career. Whether it's injuries or overtrained athlete syndrome, were just not getting the "hours in the office" we need.

For the record - our defense is a completely different when he is on the field...in a good way. On the other hand we miss him dearly when he's not there. Not sure if that is Wades fault for not preparing the rest of the defense and relying too heavily on Cush or if it's Rick Smiths for not drafting players correctly or what but his presence is noticed greatly.

I'm not saying cut him by any means but if put against the other three I listed earlier there is no question.

texanchris
12-22-2013, 01:02 PM
If we want to have a quick turn around like Bob and everyone else wants then we will need Dre, especially if we have a rookie QB. the rookie QB will need a safety valve, someone he can trust to make a play on the ball and Hopkins is definatley not that guy at this point in his career. I see Dre being in similar situation as Reggie Wayne when they drafted Luck

IlliniJen
12-22-2013, 01:02 PM
No, prevailing thought throughout the league is the Texans aren't your typical team looking to rebuild and Andre is a big part of the reason why. Come back next year with a healthy Cushing, Foster and hopefully an upgrade at QB and they should be ready to contend again.

I think you may be overestimating the talent on our squad. There's not a ton of talent or depth on this team other than the people you mentioned. I don't think next year is a KC-like turnaround. This is a 2-3 project for the next coach.

2slik4u
12-22-2013, 01:02 PM
Just to clarify. Yes you could move him with no cap hit. No you won't save 12 million on the cap. You save 180k.

And I'm in the group that wants Johnson to retire as a Texan.

Is that because of incentives? Sorry, not a cap expert. Please explain how we won't be gigged the $11mil+ and will only save $180k?

dalemurphy
12-22-2013, 01:11 PM
Why would anyone want to trade away one of the best receivers in the league?

To redesign the cap structure and roster of a team who is rebuilding. I'm not arguing that it should happen, but I think it is something to consider, particularly for those who think this is a 2 or 3 year rebuilding project. What could the Texans get in trade for AJ? Let's just say they can get a late 1st round pick and then a 2015 conditional pick (2nd or 3rd)... Factor the additional draft picks with the $10+ million in cap savings and the team could immediately and significantly alter the talent and age of the team at multiple positions.

For example, let's assume this trade (AJ for late 1st in 2014, and 3rd in 2015):

Maybe Texans use that extra 1st for a good RT or elite G... Then, they take some (not all) of that cap savings in free agency and sign the following:

TE- Pettigrew or Pitta (depending on offensive philosophy)
WR- Maclin
WR- G.Tate

I doubt that combination of player signings would approach the $12 million saved from AJ's loss (at least in the first couple contract years). So, AJ's gone, but, not counting the draft, here's the receiving group:

Maclin, Tate, Hopkins, Posey, KMartin
Pettigrew, Griffin, ?

at least on paper, that does not look like a bad situation... though, I understand how little "paper" can have to do with real football... Still, in some capacity, under a new regime, these are discussions that should happen during the winter months- heading into March free agency and then the draft.

dalemurphy
12-22-2013, 01:15 PM
Just to clarify. Yes you could move him with no cap hit. No you won't save 12 million on the cap. You save 180k.

And I'm in the group that wants Johnson to retire as a Texan.

I'm not going to argue, because I don't know if spotrac is correct. If Spotrac is correct, however, the savings would be $12 million. Here is the link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/2014/

Exascor
12-22-2013, 01:44 PM
I'm not going to argue, because I don't know if spotrac is correct. If Spotrac is correct, however, the savings would be $12 million. Here is the link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/2014/

It's wrong. It's not taking into account the guaranteed salaries from the restructures. If you go to his page on that site it had the bonuses.

Over the cap looks right.

overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2014

dsorc
12-22-2013, 01:47 PM
I'm not going to argue, because I don't know if spotrac is correct. If Spotrac is correct, however, the savings would be $12 million. Here is the link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/2014/

Spotrac only gives the dead money for the current year. Just look at any other contract and you'll see no dead money for any years past 2013 just like Andre's. The dead money if AJ is cut/traded in 2014 should be the sum of all the miscellaneous and signing bonuses or about 14M. That dead money hit is larger than the cap hit so it would actually cost us cap space to move Andre. This is not surprising given all the restructures Andre has done in the past.

Exascor
12-22-2013, 01:51 PM
Spotrac only gives the dead money for the current year. Just look at any other contract and you'll see no dead money for any years past 2013 just like Andre's. The dead money if AJ is cut/traded in 2014 should be the sum of all the miscellaneous and signing bonuses or about 14M. That dead money hit is larger than the cap hit so it would actually cost us cap space to move Andre. This is not surprising given all the restructures Andre has done in the past.

Again, just to clarify. Some of those bonuses are roster bonuses so they don't apply if cut or traded. Over the cap appears correct at 180k cap savings.

amazing80
12-22-2013, 01:53 PM
Sure, trade your best offensive weapon. Smart :vincepalm:


And people hate Rick Smith, why not bash people like this with their stupid thoughts.

dsorc
12-22-2013, 01:53 PM
Again, just to clarify. Some of those bonuses are roster bonuses so they don't apply if cut or traded. Over the cap appears correct at 180k cap savings.
I just went with the easy math but your are right. There are 1M roster bonuses each year that account for the differences in our numbers. Same conclusion though, no cap value in getting rid of Andre.

dalemurphy
12-22-2013, 02:24 PM
It's wrong. It's not taking into account the guaranteed salaries from the restructures. If you go to his page on that site it had the bonuses.

Over the cap looks right.

overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2014

Thanks. So much for that off-season issue.

2slik4u
12-22-2013, 02:28 PM
Sure, trade your best offensive weapon. Smart :vincepalm:


And people hate Rick Smith, why not bash people like this with their stupid thoughts.

Relax brah.

paycheck71
12-22-2013, 02:52 PM
Thanks. So much for that off-season issue.

A really cool feature overthecap added recently.

Salary Cap Calculator (http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans)

eriadoc
12-22-2013, 02:55 PM
No. AJ needs to stay here and drop balls that are right in his hands.

EllisUnit
12-22-2013, 03:11 PM
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Assuming this is accurate, I'm interested in your thoughts on this possibility. Given the wide range of views regarding the team's current cap health, talent level, etc... I'm interested in simply reading the various thoughts on this idea.

I'm not sure what I think. Clearly, a lot will depend on the new coaching staff and the direction the coach wants to move... and also on AJ's attitude towards the forth-coming changes. Also, given that we will likely cut or trade OD this off-season for $6 million in cap savings, would moving AJ also be detrimental to the develop of a rookie QB's development? Or, perhaps it is a good idea to have WRs and a young QB develop together instead of a rookie QB being awestruck and over-dependent upon an All-pro veteran. I'm not sure.

How would other veterans perceive this move? Do we care? Will winning next season be a primary goal in the off-season or will 2014 be viewed as a reset?

Thoughts?

what is all this dumb talk i hear about trading away AJ, not calling you dumb D, but serioulsy people. As bad as this season has been i imagine AJ still plans to finish his career here. Look at KC this season, this team is just a good QB and few other spots away from being a very good team.

htownfan32
12-22-2013, 03:31 PM
No. AJ needs to stay here and drop balls that are right in his hands.

lol msr

IDEXAN
12-22-2013, 03:36 PM
No. AJ needs to stay here and drop balls that are right in his hands.
Yea, that's what I'm thinking. Based on what I saw today, I dunno if Andre could
make the Broncos team given their talent at WR and his ineptness catching the ball.

Playoffs
12-22-2013, 03:39 PM
No!

Final answer.

Uncle Rico
12-22-2013, 04:00 PM
And on cue the wishy washy worst fans in football find a waybto criticize the lone bright spot on this team currently and in its history. You scumbags are disgusting.

Seegara
12-22-2013, 04:03 PM
I just went with the easy math but your are right. There are 1M roster bonuses each year that account for the differences in our numbers. Same conclusion though, no cap value in getting rid of Andre.
Rats. I was going to say yes when you talked about 12 million. Now a trade doesn't look attractive.

GuerillaBlack
12-22-2013, 04:04 PM
And on cue the wishy washy worst fans in football find a waybto criticize the lone bright spot on this team currently and in its history. You scumbags are disgusting.

Point out the wishy washy fans.

Marshall
12-22-2013, 05:13 PM
Point out the wishy washy fans.
Most of the most outrageous suggestions are from people who don't understand the Cap. They feel free to criticize the GM with no clue about what he really does.

Here is a list of relatively safe players for 2014 strictly because of their contract structure:

Bryan Cushing ($12.95M) This means it would cost almost $13M against the cap to cut him.

Duane Brown ($5M)

DeAndre Hopkins ($3M+)

Whitney Mercilus ($1M-)

D J Swearinger ($300K-)

This is a list of players at risk because of Salary Cap Savings:

Daniel Manning $4.5M

Owen Daniels $4.5M

Matt Schaub $4M

Jonathan Joseph $3.75M

Chris Meyers $3M

Kareem Jackson $1.7M-

Shane Lechler $1.4M+

Brooks Reed $1M+

Arian Foster $1M

Everyone else is close enough to their replacement cost to be judged on their football prowess and not salary cap considerations.

LikeMike
12-22-2013, 05:55 PM
You know what? There is not too much that the Texans can be 100% proud of. AJ is. He is a sure hall of fame player, consistent as hell, he loves the Texans and is just a class act. Keeping AJ is about more than just production and salary cap implications - it is about giving the greatest player in our history the treatment he deserves.

Marcus
12-22-2013, 05:55 PM
This is a list of players at risk because of Salary Cap Savings:

Daniel Manning $4.5M

Owen Daniels $4.5M

Matt Schaub $4M

Jonathan Joseph $3.75M

Chris Meyers $3M

Kareem Jackson $1.7M-

Shane Lechler $1.4M+

Brooks Reed $1M+

Arian Foster $1M

Everyone else is close enough to their replacement cost to be judged on their football prowess and not salary cap considerations.

The ones in red are gone IMO.

Marshall
12-22-2013, 06:00 PM
I also recommend extending JJ Watt's contract this year rather than waiting for 2015. It should look something like this which requires just under $7M extra cap space in 2014: Signing bonus and First year guaranteed making it 42% guaranteed. He would be secure through 2017 due to cap hit considerations, but Houston could make a change after four years if the unexpected happens.

six year (or five year extension) - [$40M signing bonus]
2014 - $2M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2015 - $10M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2016 - $12M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2017 - $12M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2018 - $12M + [$8M BS Cap Hit]
2010 - $12M

JB
12-22-2013, 06:02 PM
The ones in red are gone IMO.

I don't think Joseph or Reed is gone. Everything I've heard players say about Reed is that he does a very good job doing what he is asked to do.

Hervoyel
12-22-2013, 06:09 PM
If the Texans want to be dead to me all they need to do is trade or cut the best player in franchise history like the Oiler's did with Earl Campbell.

Marshall
12-22-2013, 06:11 PM
I don't think Joseph or Reed is gone. Everything I've heard players say about Reed is that he does a very good job doing what he is asked to do.

While the players noted are at risk, they still have to see what they get in the draft to determine whether they have an adequate replacement. I think we already have ODs replacement and will have Schaub's replacement. Manning and Joseph would take pretty good replacements before I'd let them go.

infantrycak
12-22-2013, 06:21 PM
13 loses in a row isn't bad enough, we have to beat this originally built out of dog poo, dead horse some more?

.

dalemurphy
12-22-2013, 06:29 PM
The ones in red are gone IMO.

If Lovie comes in, I would expect Danieal Manning to return. Having his experience in Lovie's system, would justify that cap savings, I think.

Brooks Reed would likely be gone if we moved into a 4-3- doesn't make sense to invest the time/hope that he could learn an new position as he headed into the last year of his deal... Sure, he could play DE in a 4-3. However, Watt will play some DE in a 4-3, Mercilus is signed for 3 more years- is a better pass rusher and better player with hand down against the run... So, I don't see a natural fit for him.

J.Jo could go either way... My guess is he would stay unless the new staff is critical of him and believe he can/should be replaced by a veteran in the FA market for relatively little money ($2-$3 million/year)... McCain is likely to be cut... BHarris is in his last year and could be cut for $1 million is cap savings... that doesn't leave much on the roster at CB.

2slik4u
12-22-2013, 06:30 PM
I don't think Joseph or Reed is gone. Everything I've heard players say about Reed is that he does a very good job doing what he is asked to do.

Reed is still playing his rookie contract right?

JB
12-22-2013, 06:45 PM
Reed is still playing his rookie contract right?

I think so, final year in 2014?

Double Barrel
12-22-2013, 06:54 PM
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.

hradhak
12-22-2013, 07:40 PM
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.

The Texans owe nothing to AJ IMO. We pay him a salary. If he didn't like being here, he wouldn't keep resigning with us.

I would like for him to be a Texan until he retires. I think the idea of trading him for his sake is really a crapshoot as much as staying here. Free agents who went to the Texans and Falcons this season thought they were going to a SB contender, and well look how that turned out.

dalemurphy
12-22-2013, 08:04 PM
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.

Sorry... I know what you mean. It is certainly a moot point now- knowing that trading/cutting him does not gain $12 million in cap savings, but would be a wash. I'm not wanting him to leaving. I actually think we can turn this thing around in one season but was interested in the thoughts of those who think this will be a larger overhaul than I do.

Brisco_County
12-22-2013, 08:14 PM
Losing seasons inspire some really bad posts.

McNair will ensure that AJ retires a Texan.

dalemurphy
12-22-2013, 08:35 PM
Losing seasons inspire some really bad posts.

McNair will ensure that AJ retires a Texan.


Perhaps you are right. That, however, are not good football decisions. Great organizations do not operate that way... If, at some point, the Texans have a financial decision to make regarding AJ and the football people believe his exit is best for the on field success of the team, I would hate for the Texans to commit to him out of some loyalty/desire to have him only play for Houston... We are not at that point now, but there will likely be a day when that issue exists... all of you so passionate about winning would certainly want AJ cut loose, right?

infantrycak
12-22-2013, 08:46 PM
Perhaps you are right. That, however, are not good football decisions. Great organizations do not operate that way... If, at some point, the Texans have a financial decision to make regarding AJ and the football people believe his exit is best for the on field success of the team, I would hate for the Texans to commit to him out of some loyalty/desire to have him only play for Houston... We are not at that point now, but there will likely be a day when that issue exists... all of you so passionate about winning would certainly want AJ cut loose, right?

How about asking once AJ gets down to Kevin Walter in his prime performance level?

ArlingtonTexan
12-22-2013, 09:03 PM
Anytime the word "trade' is involved, it is always about what a team is getting back. if somebody is trading a couple of 1sts then uhmm yeah, but if the compensation is 4th with a possible 3rd in 2015 then probably not. And no players are not owed damn thing but their check clearing.

beerlover
12-22-2013, 09:22 PM
Knew this was coming. It's just business. :kitten:

TheMatrix31
12-23-2013, 02:57 AM
I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.



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How anyone could see what happened to this team without him last year and this year and can say this is beyond me.

This team is a disaster without our on-field heart and soul. Cushing is the heart and the soul of this team. Yes, even more than JJ Watt. Watt has more impact and is a better player, but Cushing brought the fire and the passion. Dude is a top 5 linebacker when healthy. And he's not injury prone---he was taken out twice on dirty plays.

Brian Cushing should be a Houston Texan for life if he can come back and return to his pre-injury form.


As far as the original thread question, no thanks.

Bulls on Parade
12-23-2013, 03:08 AM
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.
Agreed. Although you never know what can develop in the off-season. He has an uncle who's been telling him to leave the Texans and join a consistent winning organization for a long time. There are people close to him not afraid to give him the brutal truth, and if he sees himself only having three or four more productive years why shouldn't he chase a Super Bowl ring while he still can?

The past two 12-4 and 10-6 seasons that have resulted in back-to-back wild card wins over the Bengals have helped, but this 2013 season has been a disaster to say the least. Andre Johnson is fed up with all of the losing and playing with mediocre quarterbacks and I don't blame him. If he asks to be traded then we should try and at least get the best deal offered. Which I'm thinking would be a second-round pick and a fourth-round pick. Not all that bad considering his age and great production. Keep in mind that wide receivers, especially his age, don't often bring back the type of value that you would expect.

craneman
12-23-2013, 08:10 AM
He has given so much to this TEAM!!!!$$$$$$GIVEN DOLLARS...OFF HIS Salary

BullNation4Life
12-23-2013, 08:22 AM
Thread topic and logic is very sports talk radio-ish.

Andre Johnson is not going anywhere. Bob McNair won't let it happen. The only way it happens is if AJ wants out of here. And so far he has shown no inclination or hint of wanting to play elsewhere.

As a fan, I want him to retire a Houston Texan. He epitomizes everything good about pro athletes, and his stature in the community goes well beyond football. I think McNair sees him this way, as well, and has called him a legacy player in the past. I would not be surprised if AJ is part of why McNair does not want to rebuild, but reload to contend next season.

if only we had a fat guy with a beard that made stupid jokes and racist comments...

Where could we get on of those guys?


I agree, you don't trade/cut the face of the franchise unless there is absolutely, positively no way to keep him on and even then I still don't let him go.

HOU-TEX
12-23-2013, 09:17 AM
He has given so much to this TEAM!!!!$$$$$$GIVEN DOLLARS...OFF HIS Salary

While he has given a lot to this team and organization, he has NOT given any discounts. Re-structuring is not subtracting money from him.

DB's comment sums up my thoughts on this topic. It all depends on what AJ wants. If he wants out, let him out. Odds are, he stuck around this long so I can't see him wanting out now.

IDEXAN
12-23-2013, 09:26 AM
The Texans owe nothing to AJ IMO. We pay him a salary. If he didn't like being here, he wouldn't keep resigning with us.


Thank you. Maybe he likes it here, I dunno, but he's remained because more than anything else he likes the money, the deals he's gotten which I think have been 2 additional contracts after his rookie deal.
He's one of my favorites on the team, he's going to the HOF, but he's not staying here for sentimental reasons.

houstonspartan
12-23-2013, 10:03 AM
How anyone could see what happened to this team without him last year and this year and can say this is beyond me.

This team is a disaster without our on-field heart and soul. Cushing is the heart and the soul of this team. Yes, even more than JJ Watt. Watt has more impact and is a better player, but Cushing brought the fire and the passion. Dude is a top 5 linebacker when healthy. And he's not injury prone---he was taken out twice on dirty plays.

Brian Cushing should be a Houston Texan for life if he can come back and return to his pre-injury form.


As far as the original thread question, no thanks.

As 2lik said in response, it's not that Cushing isn't good; it's that he's unreliable. The team has had to adjust to him not being here so much that we may as well plan on him not being here.

He's still a beast - when he's here. He's been not here more than he has been here, is the point. I'm already wondering what Cushing's injury in 2014 will be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Blake
12-23-2013, 10:17 AM
There are three players on this team that are completely off limits to trades/cuts for whatever reason:

1. JJ Watt
2. Andre Johnson
3. Duane Brown

Everyone else is negotiable. Yes, even Cushing.

I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.

You mean the same Cushing that when out, our defense falls to pieces? They way I see it he is the glue that keeps our defense strong.

Blake
12-23-2013, 10:18 AM
And no to trading AJ. He will be a key piece to our 2014 team.

edwardc5637
12-23-2013, 10:24 AM
NO NO NO To the *ell NO.

HOU-TEX
12-23-2013, 10:26 AM
You mean the same Cushing that when out, our defense falls to pieces? They way I see it he is the glue that keeps our defense strong.

I love me some Cush, but our defense was horrid when he was playing this season. Our O gave them no help whatsoever, but we were giving up almost 30 points a game before he went down.

You're correct, he's a vital piece of our defense. I just think teams figured out Wade's 'scheme'. Plus, game planning for JJ equals zero pass rush elsewhere.

2slik4u
12-23-2013, 11:50 AM
You mean the same Cushing that when out, our defense falls to pieces? They way I see it he is the glue that keeps our defense strong.

Yes. The same Cushing that has only played two full seasons out of five.

When you're paying him star player salary, you need star player time. I'm not calling him injury prone because those were horrid injuries but between two knee surgeries and a suspension, he only can say he's played two full seasons.

And for the record, I love me some Cush but by no means is he given a free pass when salary cap problems arise. He gets paid A LOT which means he should be playing A LOT.

Texan4Ever
12-23-2013, 12:12 PM
A really cool feature overthecap added recently.

Salary Cap Calculator (http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans)


Cool find! From playing around with the tool it looks like we will need to restructure lots of contracts in order to have significant cap savings.

Question: What happens to a coaches that are part of trades and you let them go? Do they not qualify towards cap hits or anything like players?

I wish that things were simplified in that once a player is traded or cut, the contract is void. Get rid of the guarantees and only pay out bonuses. Makes no sense to pay players if they're injured. Seems harsh but from a business standpoint and to keep teams competitive it makes sense IMO.

Or maybe not...

Norg
12-23-2013, 12:17 PM
why not colts at a time had no issues in almost trading away Reggie wayne they didn't tho

steelers straight Cut Hines ward didn't they

If we go full blown Rebuild next year then yeah I can see getting rid of AJ


look at what the colts did they went full blown Rebuild 2 years ago and still went 11-2 and made the playoffs LOL

deucetx
12-23-2013, 12:29 PM
why not colts at a time had no issues in almost trading away Reggie wayne they didn't tho

steelers straight Cut Hines ward didn't they

If we go full blown Rebuild next year then yeah I can see getting rid of AJ


look at what the colts did they went full blown Rebuild 2 years ago and still went 11-2 and made the playoffs LOL

1. And now without Wayne the Colts offense has sputtered and basically became a roller coaster. I am sure they feel a bit silly if they even entertained that thought and probably feel they need to find his replacement very soon.

2. They cut Hines Ward when he was at the end of his career. Also he was never the actual receiver Dre is who just got over 100 receptions yet again. Ward was just great all around and a worker. They had replacement receivers ready.

3. You would then add WR to replace which isn't always easy. And there is no way from what we have seen thus far that Hopkins is a guaranteed #1 receiver. Who would be #2? Hell...who would be #3? You don't fix your team by creating even more vital holes. You hold onto someone like Dre while grooming the future or having the backup plan ready. We have none at this time and have enough issues to deal with.

infantrycak
12-23-2013, 12:45 PM
Which I'm thinking would be a second-round pick and a fourth-round pick. Not all that bad considering his age and great production.

You don't trade 100 rec. 1500 yd receivers for a 2nd and 4th.

steelers straight Cut Hines ward didn't they

Ward was 35 and had fallen to 4th on the depth chart (5th receiving option).

Yes an end comes to all players. AJ's time is not done.

houstonspartan
12-23-2013, 04:28 PM
Yes. The same Cushing that has only played two full seasons out of five.

When you're paying him star player salary, you need star player time. I'm not calling him injury prone because those were horrid injuries but between two knee surgeries and a suspension, he only can say he's played two full seasons.

And for the record, I love me some Cush but by no means is he given a free pass when salary cap problems arise. He gets paid A LOT which means he should be playing A LOT.

Correct. Agree with every word.


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Norg
12-23-2013, 04:39 PM
1. And now without Wayne the Colts offense has sputtered and basically became a roller coaster. I am sure they feel a bit silly if they even entertained that thought and probably feel they need to find his replacement very soon.

2. They cut Hines Ward when he was at the end of his career. Also he was never the actual receiver Dre is who just got over 100 receptions yet again. Ward was just great all around and a worker. They had replacement receivers ready.

3. You would then add WR to replace which isn't always easy. And there is no way from what we have seen thus far that Hopkins is a guaranteed #1 receiver. Who would be #2? Hell...who would be #3? You don't fix your team by creating even more vital holes. You hold onto someone like Dre while grooming the future or having the backup plan ready. We have none at this time and have enough issues to deal with.

that's why I have a whole year to rebuild to say why do we need to fll those holes lets just put PLayer A and player B in that role

El Tejano
12-24-2013, 07:56 AM
I'm sorry, but, you don't get rid of AJ. You just don't. I've been through sorry seasons before and I can take it again. He has shown a great deal of leadership and LOYALTY. A WR that asks to have his contract renegotiated for the betterment of the team doesn't come around very often and Dre has done that several times. His play on the field this year has shown that he's not ending any time soon either. A QB can still hit him in stride and he is still getting open on a team that has no one else to throw to that is a legitimate threat to take away snaps from him. I'm sorry but a player like Dre is the solution and not the problem. And yes I'm still being very loyal to the only player on the team that comes to play every Sunday. For that reason alone I would pay my hard earned money to see the Texans. Sorry but Dre stays.

Double Barrel
12-24-2013, 11:44 AM
The Texans owe nothing to AJ IMO. We pay him a salary. If he didn't like being here, he wouldn't keep resigning with us.

I re-read my post and I never said anything about "owe".

As far as "we pay him a salary", no "we" don't. Bob McNair signs the checks, so he pays AJ a salary. And that same Bob McNair, the owner, has never wavered in his public comments regarding AJ. That is what my post was based on. The histories of both the player and the owner, which is why this thread is very talk radio-ish.

Agreed. Although you never know what can develop in the off-season. He has an uncle who's been telling him to leave the Texans and join a consistent winning organization for a long time. There are people close to him not afraid to give him the brutal truth, and if he sees himself only having three or four more productive years why shouldn't he chase a Super Bowl ring while he still can?

The past two 12-4 and 10-6 seasons that have resulted in back-to-back wild card wins over the Bengals have helped, but this 2013 season has been a disaster to say the least. Andre Johnson is fed up with all of the losing and playing with mediocre quarterbacks and I don't blame him. If he asks to be traded then we should try and at least get the best deal offered. Which I'm thinking would be a second-round pick and a fourth-round pick. Not all that bad considering his age and great production. Keep in mind that wide receivers, especially his age, don't often bring back the type of value that you would expect.

Yeah, things can certainly change. If AJ decided that 11 years as a Houston Texan is enough and wanted to gracefully depart to another team for a chance at a ring, I would have to accept it for what it is. But, until then, I'm going to keep both feet in what we know about both the franchise and player.

Honestly, I would not blame AJ if he wanted to leave. Regardless of what McNair says, 2014 is a rebuild year. They can certainly experience success, but replacing a HC, coaching staff, and starting QB is not a "reload". AJ probably knows this, and looking at a finite number of years left in his career, he could decide to spend the rest of his productive years on a team that just needs a great WR to get over the hump. Imagine AJ catching Brady passes.

bigmck
12-24-2013, 12:02 PM
The Texans owe nothing to AJ IMO. We pay him a salary. If he didn't like being here, he wouldn't keep resigning with us.


That is true, but I have seen other greats, Johnny Unitas, Joe Namath, Jerry Rice traded at the end of their career. It just does not look the same to see them in another city's uniform. It is a business, but AJ is the best Texan ever and I sure would hate to see him in a different uniform.

eriadoc
12-24-2013, 12:02 PM
Imagine AJ catching Brady passes.

No. I refuse to, and you can't make me.

Norg
12-24-2013, 02:52 PM
well the way things are going in my gut feeling that during the last 2 or 3 years of AJ career he will be playing for a different team

Thorn
12-24-2013, 04:02 PM
Some folks are just the face of the franchise. AJ is that.

Hervoyel
12-25-2013, 12:48 AM
As 2lik said in response, it's not that Cushing isn't good; it's that he's unreliable. The team has had to adjust to him not being here so much that we may as well plan on him not being here.

He's still a beast - when he's here. He's been not here more than he has been here, is the point. I'm already wondering what Cushing's injury in 2014 will be.


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Agree. Think "Bob Sanders" in Indy. Fantastic player, didn't play all that much. It sucks but that's just the way it happens sometimes.

Marshall
12-25-2013, 03:57 AM
Perhaps you are right. That, however, are not good football decisions. Great organizations do not operate that way... If, at some point, the Texans have a financial decision to make regarding AJ and the football people believe his exit is best for the on field success of the team, I would hate for the Texans to commit to him out of some loyalty/desire to have him only play for Houston... We are not at that point now, but there will likely be a day when that issue exists... all of you so passionate about winning would certainly want AJ cut loose, right?

One of the reasons it won't pay to cut him is that he kept renegotiating his contract every time we needed cap space. This kept pushing his dead money forward to the point that cutting him doesn't gain cap space now. He's given us cap space already.

Marshall
12-25-2013, 04:08 AM
You mean the same Cushing that when out, our defense falls to pieces? They way I see it he is the glue that keeps our defense strong.

Does everybody realize that Cushing's dead money is more than his salary? This mean we would not only lose the player, but money from the Cap Space as well ($13.6M+). We couldn't afford to cut him, even if we wanted to.

MEGA SWATT
12-27-2013, 01:51 AM
No - the end.

HJam72
12-27-2013, 11:17 PM
Does everybody realize that Cushing's dead money is more than his salary? This mean we would not only lose the player, but money from the Cap Space as well ($13.6M+). We couldn't afford to cut him, even if we wanted to.

Somebody get him away from Sharpton and teach him how to stay healthy.