PDA

View Full Version : NastyNate's mock


NastyNate
12-19-2013, 08:18 PM
I'm still in love with trading back but I don't think there is much of a bounty this year or a team to trade with. I'm not personally a fan of Bridgewater or Clowney, and with such little time at the position Barr is a project in my eyes. So without further ado:

1. Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo. Some might think I'm reaching here, but Mack is the best OLB in the draft and he'll make me look smart next year. He solves two of our biggest defensive issues, lack of a pass rush and turnovers (forced fumble and pick machine). Mack continually maneuvers around blockers, rarely getting squared up and patty caking. Just watch his game tape against highly rated Antonio Richardson for proof. His effectiveness against the run is another huge plus, and he is tied for NCAA all time TFL leader. I get a Von Miller 2.0 vibe from Mack and he will be an instant contributor.

2. A.J. McCarron, QB, Alabama. McCarron has faced criticism about having to have everything perfect to be a successful qb in this league, but simply watch the tape and there's no debating he can't make every throw necessary to succeed in the NFL. He doesn't take negative plays, is a proven winner (36-3) and can help turn around this franchise immediately.

3. JuWuan James, OT, Tennessee. A few others have mocked him in the third and I really like the pick. Shores up a shaky spot and allows Quiz to kick inside to LG.

4. Marcel Jensen, TE, Fresno state. Sticky hands and a huge frame allow for a dual threat TE. Excellent blocker and can contribute on special teams play as well. Very capable blocker and a reliable outlet for AJ Mccarron. Not the fastest guy on the field but creates mismatches with his size and vertical.

5a. Ryan Carrethers, DT, Arkansas State. I'm hoping he's still here at this point, excellent push and can drive a pile back. Won't be the most productive sack artist but can take up double teams and allow Mack and Watt to feast.

5b. (comp pick for barwin) Marqueston Huff, FS, Wyoming. One of the only bright spots on an atrocious Wyoming defense. Amazing top end speed and hard to get over the top of, Huff will be able to learn for a year before taking over for Manning.

6. Carrington Byndom, CB, Texas. Really flashed in 2011 when Texas had a quality pass rush up front, had 53 tackles and 12 pass breakups this year. I could see him regaining his old form.

7. Greg Blair, ILB, Cinncinatti. Huge value on an otherwise weak ILB class. Allows us to finally eliminate the Sharpton.

WolverineFan
12-19-2013, 09:16 PM
Good mock. First off, I commend you for your 1st pick. Obviously we aren't real GM's here, but that's the kind of confidence in a prospect that I like to see when drafting a guy #1. I think it's a reach, but I really like Mack as a prospect and I can get behind the pick.

As for the rest......I don't dislike McCarron. I think he has a lot of the tools that you look for. My problem is that I don't think he has a very high ceiling. He's already at his peak. I see him as a solid starter in the league, but not a franchise elevating talent.

I like James. Should be a solid RT prospect that has the potential to start. Not familiar with Jensen. I hear a lot about Carrethers on this board, but I haven't watched him. Have heard about Huff, but haven't watched him either. Can't hate on a late round CB or ILB. I like the Blair pick more than the Byndom pick.

JB
12-19-2013, 09:52 PM
I don't know a lot about any of them, but I've liked what I've seen of McCarron. He always seems to do what it takes to win the game.

beerlover
12-19-2013, 10:06 PM
Seem to remember mocking Mack to Texans around #7 before they kept losing week after week, now I would be dissapointed with that pick.

bhsman
12-20-2013, 02:48 AM
I'd like Mack as the first pick after a trade down, but maybe not at 1-1.

McCarron was absolutely carried by his team during his entire stay at Alabama. Picking him at #33 would be a complete waste of a pick.

NastyNate
12-20-2013, 03:44 AM
I'd like Mack as the first pick after a trade down, but maybe not at 1-1.

McCarron was absolutely carried by his team during his entire stay at Alabama. Picking him at #33 would be a complete waste of a pick.

I strongly disagree, McCarron has played the best teams in the SEC and rarely made mistakes with the ball. Comes from a pro offense and is a proven winner. I know you're high on Bridgewater but his footwork is no bueno and he takes way too many sacks for the competition they played the last 3 years.

As for Mack, would you take Von Miller at 1-1 this year if you could? Playmaking ability, not penchant for banned substances.

thetexanator
12-20-2013, 08:41 AM
back off nasty nate. khalil mack is my B_ _ _ _.:uchicken:

TexansFTW
12-20-2013, 08:53 AM
I'd like Mack as the first pick after a trade down, but maybe not at 1-1.

McCarron was absolutely carried by his team during his entire stay at Alabama. Picking him at #33 would be a complete waste of a pick.

Completely agree.

The biggest Pro for McCarron by most is that he never/rarely lost football games.

My biggest knock is that HE rarely WON the football games.

bhsman
12-20-2013, 11:07 AM
I strongly disagree, McCarron has played the best teams in the SEC and rarely made mistakes with the ball. Comes from a pro offense and is a proven winner.

He rarely makes mistakes with the ball because he is rarely called upon to win the game due to having that defense, offensive line, and running game to carry him.

If he ends up becoming a very good pro, it will because of qualities that he's never had to show during his college career.

Mr teX
12-20-2013, 11:28 AM
He rarely makes mistakes with the ball because he is rarely called upon to win the game due to having that defense, offensive line, and running game to carry him.

If he ends up becoming a very good pro, it will because of qualities that he's never had to show during his college career.

I for the most part agree with you i'd like to see more of him with the game on his shoulders...... but he's had his moments. His performances against a stout LSU team loaded with NFL talent come to mind. I know he had a game winning drive in at least 1 of those games & he played damn well against that same team in the NC game....can't ignore that.

I'd love to snatch him up in the 2nd...

badboy
12-20-2013, 11:37 AM
Only disagreement I have his first and TE in 4th. Texans very successful with that position in 5th. Starter already on team. I'm fan of many of your guys and have mocked most of them Huff could be a stud and really like Blair; anything after round three and he is a steal. I can't imagine why he is rated so low by ESPN, great stats, revies and plays for a winning team. James does not translate to OG or LT but man what a RT! Good work NN.

infantrycak
12-20-2013, 12:07 PM
Only disagreement I have his first and TE in 4th. Texans very successful with that position in 5th. Starter already on team.

The only TE the Texans have ever drafted in the 5th is James Casey who can't be characterized as very successful at TE.

Not saying they need a TE in any particular round. I just think they should take one sometime in the traditional 2nd day.

bah007
12-20-2013, 12:27 PM
Blair reminds me of Vontaze Burfict without the mental issues. Team leader, fights through blocks, gets to the ball, tackles well. Only thing against him is he is a limited athlete.

I like this draft a lot. A lot of guys in years past were considered "reaches" until it turns out they weren't. If you love a guy you take him. Doesn't matter what the "value" is. It would really suck if there was a future All Pro that you had your eye on but you traded back to get better "value" and somebody else nabbed him in front of you.

badboy
12-20-2013, 12:31 PM
The only TE the Texans have ever drafted in the 5th is James Casey who can't be characterized as very successful at TE.

Not saying they need a TE in any particular round. I just think they should take one sometime in the traditional 2nd day.yeah, thanks for correction & should have said 5th or later. I was thinking Graham was a 5th (4th) and Griffin was actually a 6th. As the TE is played in Houston, I think Casey's last two seasons were very successful. My position is I would not take a TE before 5th.

bhsman
12-20-2013, 01:22 PM
I for the most part agree with you i'd like to see more of him with the game on his shoulders...... but he's had his moments. His performances against a stout LSU team loaded with NFL talent come to mind. I know he had a game winning drive in at least 1 of those games & he played damn well against that same team in the NC game....can't ignore that.

I'd love to snatch him up in the 2nd...

As an LSU fan, I'd still argue he wasn't the reason they won those games; even this year against a rare 'bad' LSU defense he couldn't challenge the defense downfield and the only conversion of a 3rd and long came on a penalty. His running game and defense (especially after the offensive line seemingly 'gave up' near the end) won those games.

Anyone who seriously argues him as a 1st-2nd round pick is a joke. Sorry.

NastyNate
12-20-2013, 03:08 PM
Blair reminds me of Vontaze Burfict without the mental issues. Team leader, fights through blocks, gets to the ball, tackles well. Only thing against him is he is a limited athlete.

I like this draft a lot. A lot of guys in years past were considered "reaches" until it turns out they weren't. If you love a guy you take him. Doesn't matter what the "value" is. It would really suck if there was a future All Pro that you had your eye on but you traded back to get better "value" and somebody else nabbed him in front of you.

Mack is head and shoulders better than Anthony Barr, I still have no idea why draftniks think he isn't. He's the best pass rusher in the Draft including clowney, and he's better at locating the ball carrier and attacking the ball. We'd be the fool for not targeting him.

I really like Blair and truly enjoy the drop in draft value. Gives us a solid ilb in the seventh? I'll take it!

bah007
12-20-2013, 03:30 PM
I agree that Mack is better than Barr at this point in time. But, I do think that Barr will be he superior player if he is coached up right.

NastyNate
12-21-2013, 02:16 AM
I agree that Mack is better than Barr at this point in time. But, I do think that Barr will be he superior player if he is coached up right.

Not even close. This is a NastyNate projection as of 12/21/2013 at 0215 that Mack will be DPOY and DROY candidate in 2014. Barr will be another bust. Post marked for smart guy ness...

Trap_Star
12-21-2013, 03:04 PM
If you want to be in the playoffs year after year, you must not miss on your first selection. It is clear to me the obvious #1 pick for Houston has to be Blake Bortles. I don't think there is anyone with an upside higher than his. He has the size, the mobility, and reads defenses at the line of scrimmage. He is the most pro ready player and clearly the top NFL prospect in this class if he comes out. The Texans cannot afford to miss Blake Bortles. He is a future superstar. Watch: http://youtu.be/ayD9_uCz4K0

call me crazy, but after reading your first 3 posts, I get the sneaky suspicion you like promoting Blake Bortles.

NastyNate
12-21-2013, 03:11 PM
call me crazy, but after reading your first 3 posts, I get the sneaky suspicion you like promoting Blake Bortles.

That poster is CoachK not NastyNate :kubepalm:

badboy
12-21-2013, 05:03 PM
call me crazy, but after reading your first 3 posts, I get the sneaky suspicion you like promoting Blake Bortles.
I did not watch entire video but he is really assisted by his WRs a complaint made against McCarron. I do like is movement in pocket and behind LOS, seems very athletic.

bah007
12-21-2013, 05:48 PM
yeah, thanks for correction & should have said 5th or later. I was thinking Graham was a 5th (4th) and Griffin was actually a 6th. As the TE is played in Houston, I think Casey's last two seasons were very successful. My position is I would not take a TE before 5th.

This is not really a direct comment to you but more using your post as a segue to something else.

I really feel like TE is the most undervalued position in football. I'm afraid this might turn into an essay so I apologize if it does.

My offensive philosophy is to make the offense as multiple as possible to maximize opportunities to take advantage of defensive matchups. Being able to run a variety of formations and play types without ever substituting personnel. The key to this is the TE. I'll use the Patriots from the last few years as my example, because they run the closest thing to what I envision (sans this year obviously since Gronk has been injured all year and Hernandez...).

With Gronkowski and Hernandez, NE can run pretty much any play in the playbook on consecutive plays. They can line up in ACE with both players at TE. They can line up in the I with Hernandez at FB. Or they can line up in GUN 4 WR with both split out wide. Depending on who the defense has on the field, they can run or pass from whatever formation they want without having to sub.

This forces the defense to play a very bland, simple style. They can't risk going heavy to stop the run because you can go right into no huddle and spread them out. They also can't play nickel or dime too often or you will squeeze in and run it down their throat high tempo without letting them sub.

I realize this post has nothing to do with this thread. I've just been devising this system in my head ever since I saw Gronkowski play at Arizona. He's a TE that can run block like a third OT and catch passes like a third WR. I know those guys aren't a dime a dozen but I really feel like if you can find a similar player somewhere he can be a key piece of your offense.

Essay over.....for now.:kitten:

badboy
12-21-2013, 05:55 PM
007 I just totally disagree with you. Give me a big fast WR and a Rb that can catch. I have never been fan of TEs and the Gronks of the world are very rare. I am not big on ZBS either.

WolverineFan
12-21-2013, 06:22 PM
I think it depends on your philosophy.

Is anyone going to debate that Jimmy Graham or Gronkowski aren't the most indispensable guys on those offenses (outside of the QB obviously)? What about Antonio Gates for all those years in SD? Witten during his prime in Dallas? However, is there any debate about AJ in Houston? Megatron in Detroit? Jones in Atlanta?

It really just depends on the vision you have for your offense.

aussie_texan
12-21-2013, 06:34 PM
This is not really a direct comment to you but more using your post as a segue to something else.

I really feel like TE is the most undervalued position in football. I'm afraid this might turn into an essay so I apologize if it does.

My offensive philosophy is to make the offense as multiple as possible to maximize opportunities to take advantage of defensive matchups. Being able to run a variety of formations and play types without ever substituting personnel. The key to this is the TE. I'll use the Patriots from the last few years as my example, because they run the closest thing to what I envision (sans this year obviously since Gronk has been injured all year and Hernandez...).

With Gronkowski and Hernandez, NE can run pretty much any play in the playbook on consecutive plays. They can line up in ACE with both players at TE. They can line up in the I with Hernandez at FB. Or they can line up in GUN 4 WR with both split out wide. Depending on who the defense has on the field, they can run or pass from whatever formation they want without having to sub.

This forces the defense to play a very bland, simple style. They can't risk going heavy to stop the run because you can go right into no huddle and spread them out. They also can't play nickel or dime too often or you will squeeze in and run it down their throat high tempo without letting them sub.

I realize this post has nothing to do with this thread. I've just been devising this system in my head ever since I saw Gronkowski play at Arizona. He's a TE that can run block like a third OT and catch passes like a third WR. I know those guys aren't a dime a dozen but I really feel like if you can find a similar player somewhere he can be a key piece of your offense.

Essay over.....for now.:kitten:

+1

If i was devising an offence i would have this strategy in mind. I have been calling for Houston to draft an Elite level TE for a couple of years now. Its not necessarily a position of need at the moment but it sure might be BPA come draft day.
In a trade down situation with the rams or browns, the 2nd of your 2 first rounders or early 2nd round i would be having a very hard look at either Amaro, Ebron or Seferian-Jenkins

bah007
12-21-2013, 08:01 PM
007 I just totally disagree with you. Give me a big fast WR and a Rb than can catch. I have never been fan of TEs and the Gronks of the world are very rare. I am not big on ZBS either.

Obviously I don't expect everyone to share my philosophy. But I would argue that the Calvin Johnsons and Jamaal Charles' of the world are just as rare.

I'm also not a fan of the ZBS. I believe that zone plays are effective when used correctly but I don't like designing an entire offense around it.

I just believe that the ability to be multiple on offense and defense gives you an advantage over your opponent.

bah007
12-21-2013, 08:06 PM
+1

If i was devising an offence i would have this strategy in mind. I have been calling for Houston to draft an Elite level TE for a couple of years now. Its not necessarily a position of need at the moment but it sure might be BPA come draft day.
In a trade down situation with the rams or browns, the 2nd of your 2 first rounders or early 2nd round i would be having a very hard look at either Amaro, Ebron or Seferian-Jenkins

I'm not a huge fan of Amaro at the next level. I think that he is a great athlete for his size but he doesn't fit what I want from a TE, at least not in the first round, which is where I think he will end up. I like Seferian-Jenkins and C.J. Fiedorowicz (Iowa) the most.

aussie_texan
12-21-2013, 09:48 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Amaro at the next level. I think that he is a great athlete for his size but he doesn't fit what I want from a TE, at least not in the first round, which is where I think he will end up. I like Seferian-Jenkins and C.J. Fiedorowicz (Iowa) the most.

you like them more based off value??

what don't you like about amaro? physically his elite, has good hands, blocks well but could get better needs to be more ferocious tends to be to relaxed when blocking because of his strength and will not get away with that in the NFL. Runs good routes admittedly its a pretty simple offence for him, a lot of slants and seam routes. Thats my quick analysis of him. i have him as a top 25 player

bah007
12-21-2013, 10:21 PM
you like them more based off value??

what don't you like about amaro? physically his elite, has good hands, blocks well but could get better needs to be more ferocious tends to be to relaxed when blocking because of his strength and will not get away with that in the NFL. Runs good routes admittedly its a pretty simple offence for him, a lot of slants and seam routes. Thats my quick analysis of him. i have him as a top 25 player

I have him as my #2 TE and #29 overall so obviously I think he is talented. I don't like the way he is used at Texas Tech. He is basically a slot WR. His game as a TE is very unrefined. Yes, he is good at blocking DBs and LBs from the outside in, but I worry about his ability to block on the line of scrimmage. The potential is there, but thus far it remains to be seen.

I think he goes in the first round because his athleticism and size is too much to pass up. I would just rather someone else take the risk. I am much more comfortable with ASJ, and I think Fiedorowicz will be a steal for somebody.

leebigeztx
12-23-2013, 12:26 AM
I have him as my #2 TE and #29 overall so obviously I think he is talented. I don't like the way he is used at Texas Tech. He is basically a slot WR. His game as a TE is very unrefined. Yes, he is good at blocking DBs and LBs from the outside in, but I worry about his ability to block on the line of scrimmage. The potential is there, but thus far it remains to be seen.

I think he goes in the first round because his athleticism and size is too much to pass up. I would just rather someone else take the risk. I am much more comfortable with ASJ, and I think Fiedorowicz will be a steal for somebody.
Ocke
If amaro is an elite Y-flex/slot type te,I don't care if he's an in line blocker. U can stick graham or griffin in there to block. You don't se jimmy graham blocking de's. Shannon sharpe didn't really do it either,but when he ran routes,he was a problem

Brandon420tx
12-23-2013, 01:19 AM
I'm hoping a team will want to trade up for Clowney

bah007
12-23-2013, 11:12 AM
Ocke
If amaro is an elite Y-flex/slot type te,I don't care if he's an in line blocker. U can stick graham or griffin in there to block. You don't se jimmy graham blocking de's. Shannon sharpe didn't really do it either,but when he ran routes,he was a problem

He's a great athlete but he's not the athlete that Jimmy Graham is. He's a better athlete than most TEs but not as great an athlete as most slot WRs, so making him a flex TE basically takes away the matchup advantages his athleticism creates. If he's always going to be flexed out then defenses know they don't have to account for him as a blocker in the run game, which means they won't use a LB on him in coverage. He's not going to beat NFL DBs consistently in the seam or over the top. Which means you're basically using a first round pick on a slot WR who is only valuable within 10 yards and isn't athletic enough to consistently get much YAC out of his receptions.

At this point in his development, he is not a NFL TE. He is a H-Back or flex TE. A situational player. Great piece to have if you don't have holes elsewhere, not worth a first round pick for us.

That's not to say that the potential isn't there, just that so far it is untapped. I think he is a bigger risk than a guy like Sefarian-Jenkins for our franchise because he won't make an immediate impact the way a first rounder should.

badboy
12-23-2013, 02:09 PM
Obviously I don't expect everyone to share my philosophy. But I would argue that the Calvin Johnsons and Jamaal Charles' of the world are just as rare.

I'm also not a fan of the ZBS. I believe that zone plays are effective when used correctly but I don't like designing an entire offense around it.

I just believe that the ability to be multiple on offense and defense gives you an advantage over your opponent.Enjoying the back & forth. Don't have to have a Calvin or Jamaal to be huge success, look what Hopkins did first part of the year. On a side note, he has certainly fallen off the success wagon, coaching?

bah007
12-23-2013, 02:15 PM
Enjoying the back & forth. Don't have to have a Calvin or Jamaal to be huge success, look what Hopkins did first part of the year. On a side note, he has certainly fallen off the success wagon, coaching?

Combination of coaching, play calling, and QB play. The talent is clearly there.

badboy
12-23-2013, 04:07 PM
Combination of coaching, play calling, and QB play. The talent is clearly there.really disapointing as we all wanted to see improvements. For me I wanted to see our WRs really stretch the defense...so much for that.

kiwitexansfan
12-25-2013, 01:56 PM
Don't use winner to sell a QB prospect. Put you or me at QB for Alabama and we'd put up a winning record.

Hate the idea of a second round QB. Go big or go home.

NastyNate
12-26-2013, 07:49 AM
Don't use winner to sell a QB prospect. Put you or me at QB for Alabama and we'd put up a winning record.

Hate the idea of a second round QB. Go big or go home.

I guess I'm curious how much Alabama football you watch? McCarron has all the tools to be a very successful qb at the next level. I can go dig up losers if you like though.

steelbtexan
12-26-2013, 08:19 AM
This is not really a direct comment to you but more using your post as a segue to something else.

I really feel like TE is the most undervalued position in football. I'm afraid this might turn into an essay so I apologize if it does.

My offensive philosophy is to make the offense as multiple as possible to maximize opportunities to take advantage of defensive matchups. Being able to run a variety of formations and play types without ever substituting personnel. The key to this is the TE. I'll use the Patriots from the last few years as my example, because they run the closest thing to what I envision (sans this year obviously since Gronk has been injured all year and Hernandez...).

With Gronkowski and Hernandez, NE can run pretty much any play in the playbook on consecutive plays. They can line up in ACE with both players at TE. They can line up in the I with Hernandez at FB. Or they can line up in GUN 4 WR with both split out wide. Depending on who the defense has on the field, they can run or pass from whatever formation they want without having to sub.

This forces the defense to play a very bland, simple style. They can't risk going heavy to stop the run because you can go right into no huddle and spread them out. They also can't play nickel or dime too often or you will squeeze in and run it down their throat high tempo without letting them sub.

I realize this post has nothing to do with this thread. I've just been devising this system in my head ever since I saw Gronkowski play at Arizona. He's a TE that can run block like a third OT and catch passes like a third WR. I know those guys aren't a dime a dozen but I really feel like if you can find a similar player somewhere he can be a key piece of your offense.

Essay over.....for now.:kitten:

Jordan Najvar is that type TE that you're looking for and he should be available in the 5th due to past injuries and the offense he played in.

Kinda like the TE Wilson from Rice that the Seahawks drafted late. last yr

I would also take a risk on a guy liike Lyerla in the 6-7th rd.

beerlover
12-26-2013, 09:00 AM
Jordan Najvar is that type TE that you're looking for and he should be available in the 5th due to past injuries and the offense he played in.

Kinda like the TE Wilson from Rice that the Seahawks drafted late. last yr

I would also take a risk on a guy liike Lyerla in the 6-7th rd.

I'll tell you the TE I really wanted last year played right here @ Rice, Vance McDonald. San Francisco drafted him, in the 2nd rd. even though they have Vernon Davis. 6040 267 he has developed his blocking skills into asset both in run & passing game. He also gives them a measure of insurance in case something befalls Davis. The steal of the draft and I missed on him, is Washington Jordan Reed, late 3rd rd. all he's done is have 45 catches, 500 yards & three TD's in a dysfunctional offense while playing though nagging injury's.

I've struggled with making another TE selection, really hard with unknown new regime. Should be easier task once announced, but as several on the board already mention his name frequently I might just as well go ahead & add my endorsement as well for CJ Fiedorowiez, Iowa. Big frame, 6060 265+ stout blocker with surprisingly soft hands. Despite lack of production this past year, 26 receptions compared to 45 his Junior season it should only help his sleeper status so even though he is 2nd rd. talent he will be there in the 3rd if Texans so choose. My issue is that Texans have so many issues how do you reconcile & draft a TE over a RT here?

bhsman
12-26-2013, 02:29 PM
I guess I'm curious how much Alabama football you watch? McCarron has all the tools to be a very successful qb at the next level. I can go dig up losers if you like though.

When McCarron is getting comparisons to a less-athletic Matt Cassel (http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/09/19/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-j-mccarron-qb-alabama/), things don't look great.

NastyNate
12-26-2013, 03:46 PM
When McCarron is getting comparisons to a less-athletic Matt Cassel (http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/09/19/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-j-mccarron-qb-alabama/), things don't look great.

McCarron put together an impressive year, and I don't agree with quite a few talking points in an article that was written in September of last year. If we can target a starting RT in the third round, move Quiz to LG, and use Harris as our swing tackle we'll have a solid line to protect him and he will flourish.

bhsman
12-26-2013, 04:24 PM
McCarron put together an impressive year, and I don't agree with quite a few talking points in an article that was written in September of last year. If we can target a starting RT in the third round, move Quiz to LG, and use Harris as our swing tackle we'll have a solid line to protect him and he will flourish.

It was written this year? Has any of these things significantly changed about his arm strength or how he's used in the offense since?

And AJ can flourish all he wants if can grab Alabama's schedules, too.

badboy
12-26-2013, 09:06 PM
It was written this year? Has any of these things significantly changed about his arm strength or how he's used in the offense since?

And AJ can flourish all he wants if can grab Alabama's schedules, too.
Virginia Tech 8-4 & bowl, Texas A&M rated #6 when Bama beat them now 8-4 & bowl, Colorado St 8-4 & bowl, Ole Miss #21 when Bama beat them and 7-5 & bowl, LSU rated #13 and now 9-3 #16 and bowl, Miss. St 6-6 but bowl, Auburn rated #4 now #2 12-1 & playing in BCS championship bowl & only team to beat Bama on a stupid play that was coach's fault.Seems lie a pretty tough schedule to me. The soft teams were trounced and that is what you want a team to do.

badboy
12-26-2013, 09:13 PM
When McCarron is getting comparisons to a less-athletic Matt Cassel (http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/09/19/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-j-mccarron-qb-alabama/), things don't look great.
how about when he is compared to Brady?

"The college scouting director of an AFC club suggested just that possibility to NFL Media reporter Albert Breer, and compared the fifth-year senior's skill set to New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady.

Week 14: Things we learned
From Jeremy Gallon helping to revive Michigan's offense vs. Ohio State to David Fales outdueling Derek Carr, here are the lessons we learned in Week 14 of college football. More ...
His assessment of the Crimson Tide senior:

"Good size, outstanding touch on all throws, can make all the throws but only has average arm strength. Average running ability but very good feet and movement in the pocket to avoid sacks. Outstanding progression-read quarterback, makes throws to his second and third reads consistently. Doesn't turn the ball over. Winner. Mentally tough. Has the moxie and cockiness most great QBs have. Very similar to Tom Brady in stature, athletic ability, arm strength, touch and the most important category -- wins."http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000291624/article/highlevel-nfl-scout-compares-aj-mccarron-to-tom-brady


I would say his arm is not a cannon but only one or two stand out to me Mettenberger and Mariota come to mind. However, AJ does everything else right. Why not instead of saying he is only a game manager, put him behind a better Oline that we have to build anyway?

Texian
12-26-2013, 09:52 PM
how about when he is compared to Brady?

Very similar to Tom Brady in stature, athletic ability, arm strength, touch and the most important category -- wins.


In stature, athletic ability, arm strength, touch Brady was considered very average and ordinary. His physical stature was considered not very athletic. Belichick liked him because he won and was exceptional in game winning drive situations.

badboy
12-26-2013, 09:57 PM
In stature, athletic ability, arm strength, touch Brady was considered very average and ordinary. His physical stature was considered not very athletic. Belichick liked him because he won and was exceptional in game winning drive situations.

"can make all the throws"

steelbtexan
12-26-2013, 10:27 PM
"can make all the throws"

What opinions do you have when it comes to comparing McCarron's movement skills/arm strength/read progressions/accuracy/poise under pressure and general moxie and Bridgewater who has been said to excel in these areas?

badboy
12-26-2013, 10:49 PM
What opinions do you have when it comes to comparing McCarron's movement skills/arm strength/read progressions/accuracy/poise under pressure and general moxie and Bridgewater who has been said to excel in these areas?I rate TB ahead of AJ BUT I have to add in where each are expected to be drafted. Combine that with TB + second round and then #1-1 other player + AJ, I have to go McCarron. It also should concern all how TB played in December.

I am still hoping Mariota declares and then if not I would hope Hundley declares. If all are available, as of now I rank Mariota 1-1, Hundley 2-1 then McCarron in second.

bah007
12-26-2013, 10:50 PM
What opinions do you have when it comes to comparing McCarron's movement skills/arm strength/read progressions/accuracy/poise under pressure and general moxie and Bridgewater who has been said to excel in these areas?

To be fair, Bridgewater has been under pressure far more than McCarron so he has been easier to scout in this area, and has more practice in it.

Bridgewater is clearly the superior athlete. He is also more elusive in the pocket, dodging rushers but keeping his feet under him and his eyes down the field. But again, McCarron has not been in this situation very often.

Arm strength appears equal but McCarron throws a better deep ball. Bridgewater sometimes tries to put too much touch on his and lets too much air get under it.

They appear somewhat equal in read progression but Bridgewater has to make his decisions quicker. McCarron may be capable of making his reads more quickly but he hasn't had a reason to. He is almost always very well protected.

They are both very poised under pressure. This is one of Bridgewater's best qualities but McCarron is right there with him on this one.

They both appear to possess top notch leadership skills and poise. McCarron hasn't been asked to win games so he's harder to read. Bridgewater definitely has the clutch gene.

badboy
12-26-2013, 10:54 PM
To be fair, Bridgewater has been under pressure far more than McCarron so he has been easier to scout in this area, and has more practice in it.

Bridgewater is clearly the superior athlete. He is also more elusive in the pocket, dodging rushers but keeping his feet under him and his eyes down the field. But again, McCarron has not been in this situation very often.

Arm strength appears equal but McCarron throws a better deep ball. Bridgewater sometimes tries to put too much touch on his and lets too much air get under it.

They appear somewhat equal in read progression but Bridgewater has to make his decisions quicker. McCarron may be capable of making his reads more quickly but he hasn't had a reason to. He is almost always very well protected.

They are both very poised under pressure. This is one of Bridgewater's best qualities but McCarron is right there with him on this one.

They both appear to possess top notch leadership skills and poise. McCarron hasn't been asked to win games so he's harder to read. Bridgewater definitely has the clutch gene.
Wow! Exactly what I would have said but too tired to put together, a very good evaluation. If we had a trade down and got TB I'd be more willing.

steelbtexan
12-26-2013, 11:20 PM
To be fair, Bridgewater has been under pressure far more than McCarron so he has been easier to scout in this area, and has more practice in it.

Bridgewater is clearly the superior athlete. He is also more elusive in the pocket, dodging rushers but keeping his feet under him and his eyes down the field. But again, McCarron has not been in this situation very often.

Arm strength appears equal but McCarron throws a better deep ball. Bridgewater sometimes tries to put too much touch on his and lets too much air get under it.

They appear somewhat equal in read progression but Bridgewater has to make his decisions quicker. McCarron may be capable of making his reads more quickly but he hasn't had a reason to. He is almost always very well protected.

They are both very poised under pressure. This is one of Bridgewater's best qualities but McCarron is right there with him on this one.

They both appear to possess top notch leadership skills and poise. McCarron hasn't been asked to win games so he's harder to read. Bridgewater definitely has the clutch gene.

This evaluation is in line with mine. We are seeing the same things.

Although I will say I thought McCarron played well under intense pressure during the Auburn game.

aussie_texan
12-27-2013, 02:44 AM
To be fair, Bridgewater has been under pressure far more than McCarron so he has been easier to scout in this area, and has more practice in it.

Bridgewater is clearly the superior athlete. He is also more elusive in the pocket, dodging rushers but keeping his feet under him and his eyes down the field. But again, McCarron has not been in this situation very often.

Arm strength appears equal but McCarron throws a better deep ball. Bridgewater sometimes tries to put too much touch on his and lets too much air get under it.

They appear somewhat equal in read progression but Bridgewater has to make his decisions quicker. McCarron may be capable of making his reads more quickly but he hasn't had a reason to. He is almost always very well protected.

They are both very poised under pressure. This is one of Bridgewater's best qualities but McCarron is right there with him on this one.

They both appear to possess top notch leadership skills and poise. McCarron hasn't been asked to win games so he's harder to read. Bridgewater definitely has the clutch gene.

So in your opinion is TB getting overrated or McCarron being underrated??

Mr teX
12-27-2013, 08:26 AM
So in your opinion is TB getting overrated or McCarron being underrated??

McCarron is clearly being underrated and the Heisman ceremony provides a glimpse into why. His numbers up against the other qb prospects in that ceremony looked below average and made it seem like he didn't even belong there. Hell, the fact that he's never thrown for even 3000 yards in a season makes it seem proposterous that he was considered at the outset of the season to begin with.

& for a guy who played in so many big games in the SEC and BCS bowls, he didn't really have that many moments &/or "wow" plays that scouts & draftniks like to see. I contend that he did, they were just overshadowed by 1 of the following:

-how good his overall team was & how dominant they were....
-by how a player on his own team was making an opponent look...
-by how a player on another team was making his team look.....

And unless your talent & potential is off the charts, Draft "experts" have this thing where they tend to shy away from qb's who put up video game numbers in smaller conferences..but endlessly hype qbs in bigger conferences who do the same thing. Guys like McCarron who fall between these 2 extremes are usually treated as the former.....Stupid i know, but that's why you get guys like Rodgers, Russell Wilson & Kaepernick falling through the cracks. In McCarron's case, anyone who's objectively looking at him can clearly see the potential is there, but b/c Saban was so clearly dominant in terms of the leadership of the team, McCarron doesn't get his just due as being the co-captain of that juggernaut.

Texian
12-27-2013, 10:10 AM
"can make all the throws"

Again, this is a matter of opinion. In the 5 games I have watched Bridgewater, IMHO, Teddy doesn't make all the throws. My biggest concern is his deep ball, Bridgewater needs a high trajectory, a lot of air underneath in order to get the distance he needs. For me, I saw several of these type passes that would likely be INTs in the NFL. I have also noticed that while Bridgewater is accurate, his ball placement is suspect, which could also be more of a problem in the NFL.

Blake
12-27-2013, 10:22 AM
Again, this is a matter of opinion. In the 5 games I have watched Bridgewater, IMHO, Teddy doesn't make all the throws. My biggest concern is his deep ball, Bridgewater needs a high trajectory, a lot of air underneath in order to get the distance he needs. For me, I saw several of these type passes that would likely be INTs in the NFL. I have also noticed that while Bridgewater is accurate, his ball placement is suspect, which could also be more of a problem in the NFL.

Serious question. To you, how does ball placement differ from accuracy? I figured ball placement is part of what makes a QB accurate.

Texian
12-27-2013, 10:38 AM
Serious question. To you, how does ball placement differ from accuracy? I figured ball placement is part of what makes a QB accurate.

IMHO regarding QB ball placement, does the QB put the ball in the best position possible for the receiver to make the catch. A completion says accurate but doesn't necessarily mean good ball placement. As you are aware and have watched many times you have seen WRs make good catches on passes that were to high, to low, behind the receiver, leads the WR to much, to little, under throws the receivers yet these types of passes can also be completions. To me, Bridgewater has a high percentage of these type passes.

infantrycak
12-27-2013, 11:01 AM
Serious question. To you, how does ball placement differ from accuracy? I figured ball placement is part of what makes a QB accurate.

This is a good place for the distinction between accurate and precise.

http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/accuracy-vs-precision.png

Without precision even accurate throwers can't get into ball placement as much more than luck.

Texian
12-27-2013, 11:57 AM
This is a good place for the distinction between accurate and precise.

http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/accuracy-vs-precision.png

Without precision even accurate throwers can't get into ball placement as much more than luck.

We're talking about QB ball placement and not firearm target practice. Once again your left field comparisons does absolutely nothing to answer the question. It only confuses the issue, you now have folks wondering does a QB have to be a good shot to be a good QB. If a QB is proficient at shooting skeet is he even a better QB? Typical stuff you can expect from Cak's alternative universe.

Blake
12-27-2013, 12:01 PM
I guess I just dont consider a QB who doesnt have good ball placement as having good accuracy. I would never say "that dude is so accurate except he puts the ball behind the receiver."

Calling a QB accurate when he has poor ball placement doesnt make sense to me. Either you are accurate and place the ball correctly, or you dont.

beerlover
12-27-2013, 12:18 PM
Bridgewater has tremendous timing & rhythm. He throws a very catchable football that when you talk about accuracy, one: is in receivers optimum window that leads to two: precision in stride & out of hitting (dangerzone) intersection so receiver can focus on making catch first instead of hearing footsteps & third: combination of two enhances chance to turn small gain into something much bigger (run after catch), more TD's & higher numbers in general.

Texian
12-27-2013, 12:26 PM
I guess I just dont consider a QB who doesnt have good ball placement as having good accuracy. I would never say "that dude is so accurate except he puts the ball behind the receiver."

Calling a QB accurate when he has poor ball placement doesnt make sense to me. Either you are accurate and place the ball correctly, or you dont.

Many folks see that a QB has 70% completion and immediately think, man is he accurate, and he is. The next question is how often does the QB put the ball in the optimum position for the receiver to run with the ball after the catch. Does the QB expose his WRs to viscous hits? Are passes placed in the best position where the WR can catch the pass with their hands and still shield the defender? Next time you watch a game, critique the pass and the completion. Was it a perfect pass? to high? to low? poor placement because the WR had to stop or backup to make the reception? # of good passes vs # of passes that could have been better? Are sideline and corner passes thrown where only the WR can make the catch? When I watch Bridgewater these are some things that cause me some concern.

infantrycak
12-27-2013, 12:27 PM
We're talking about QB ball placement and not firearm target practice. Once again your left field comparisons does absolutely nothing to answer the question. It only confuses the issue, you now have folks wondering does a QB have to be a good shot to be a good QB. If a QB is proficient at shooting skeet is he even a better QB? Typical stuff you can expect from Cak's alternative universe.

Butt out of stuff you know nothing about. Precision v. accuracy is a scientific/mathematical distinction which is easily and commonly illustrated with targets. You brought up firearms because you are too ignorant to realize this applies to data assessment generally and specifically to the results of any projectile.

Texian
12-27-2013, 12:33 PM
Butt out of stuff you know nothing about. Precision v. accuracy is a scientific/mathematical distinction which is easily and commonly illustrated with targets. You brought up firearms because you are too ignorant to realize this applies to data assessment generally and specifically to the results of any projectile.

You're the one who butted in, this was originally a conversation between me and Blake. Blake asked me a question that you felt compelled to answer. Or were you trolling? You brought up firearms with your firearm targets. We all know you are an expert in all things, expert firearm target practice and medical surgery all in the last 30 minutes. Maybe you should butt out and let me and Blake finish our conversation whether you agree with our conversation or not.

bah007
12-27-2013, 12:34 PM
So in your opinion is TB getting overrated or McCarron being underrated??

I think McCarron is underrated. He is easily the best of Saban's Alabama QBs. In fact, I think he could be somewhat described as a poor man's Teddy Bridgewater. They are good at all the same things, but I have Teddy rated a little bit higher in every single category except for deep ball, which is something he has the ability to get better at with improved mechanics.

bah007
12-27-2013, 12:36 PM
You're the one who butted in, this was originally a conversation between me and Blake. Blake asked me a question that you felt compelled to answer. Or were you trolling? You brought up firearms with your firearm targets. We all know you are an expert in all things, expert firearm target practice and medical surgery all in the last 30 minutes. Maybe you should butt out and let me and Blake finish our conversation whether you agree with our conversation or not.

Were y'all exchanging private messages or were y'all posting on a MESSAGE BOARD in which numerous people are sharing their opinions on the same subject?..

infantrycak
12-27-2013, 12:39 PM
You're the one who butted in, this was originally a conversation between me and Blake. Blake asked me a question that you felt compelled to answer. Or were you trolling? You brought up firearms with your firearm targets. We all know you are an expert in all things, expert firearm target practice and medical surgery all in the last 30 minutes. Maybe you should butt out and let me and Blake finish our conversation whether you agree with our conversation or not.

Would your vagina be less itchy if it was a dartboard? It's a target of any kind.

Texian
12-27-2013, 12:42 PM
Would your vagina be less itchy if it was a dartboard? It's a target of any kind.

Typical, about what I have come to expect from you.

Mr teX
12-27-2013, 01:22 PM
This is a good place for the distinction between accurate and precise.

http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/accuracy-vs-precision.png

Without precision even accurate throwers can't get into ball placement as much more than luck.

Good comparison & like always much more succint & to the point than i could ever be. How some in here didn't understand the comparision is beyond me. I'm of the opinion though that precision/ball placement is more of a gift when throwing any kind of ball b/c most guys on the college & pro level a can get it into a WR's catch radius fairly easy. But to be able to really uncork it & put it on a rope right where you want to put it...Like Rodgers & prime Manning....that's god given & lots of guys even on the pro level can't do it consistently like those 2 did/do.

Most have to take something off to place it in the right spot...if they don't they either air mail it (Schaub, Vick) or throw it in the dirt (McNabb).

leebigeztx
12-27-2013, 06:59 PM
Bridgewater has tremendous timing & rhythm. He throws a very catchable football that when you talk about accuracy, one: is in receivers optimum window that leads to two: precision in stride & out of hitting (dangerzone) intersection so receiver can focus on making catch first instead of hearing footsteps & third: combination of two enhances chance to turn small gain into something much bigger (run after catch), more TD's & higher numbers in general.

This is very important. Bridgewater isn't playing in a funky spread like baylor,tamu,fresno st,or oregon where guys are horizontally stretching windows. He's making tight window throws to wrs who are not creating a lot of room. Not only that,the wrs don't have to dive,jump,or make lynn swann 1978 catches either. As someone stated, 70% doesn't mean you're accurate. I watch mariotta and unless the dude is running free,he's not letting it go. Go rewatch the stanford game when they re-routed the wrs and he wouldn't throw guys open. Bridgewater has to throw guys open,he doesn't have a choice.

Marshall
12-27-2013, 08:47 PM
We're talking about QB ball placement and not firearm target practice. Once again your left field comparisons does absolutely nothing to answer the question. It only confuses the issue, you now have folks wondering does a QB have to be a good shot to be a good QB. If a QB is proficient at shooting skeet is he even a better QB? Typical stuff you can expect from Cak's alternative universe.

This is directly comparable to the back shoulder throw which must be catchable by ONLY the Receiver. A catchable throw which can be contested by the defense is a dangerous pass, even though technically accurate.

Marshall
12-27-2013, 08:51 PM
You're the one who butted in, this was originally a conversation between me and Blake. Blake asked me a question that you felt compelled to answer. Or were you trolling? You brought up firearms with your firearm targets. We all know you are an expert in all things, expert firearm target practice and medical surgery all in the last 30 minutes. Maybe you should butt out and let me and Blake finish our conversation whether you agree with our conversation or not.

I remind everyone that private conversations are carried on in Pmail. Post it on the MB and it's fair game for all.

Texian
12-28-2013, 10:25 AM
I remind everyone that private conversations are carried on in Pmail. Post it on the MB and it's fair game for all.

I agree with this statement. I made my comments after I was told to butt out of a conversation that was originally started by myself and another member. I can also see how one can become confused when they don't know the whole story and can then easily take comments out of context.

Marshall
12-28-2013, 10:34 AM
I agree with this statement. I made my comments after I was told to butt out of a conversation that was originally started by myself and another member. I can also see how one can become confused when they don't know the whole story and can then easily take comments out of context.

No problem. I just had an opportunity to post this time after reading similar comments several times, usually directed at me.

By the way, I'm off the other board for making Christian references which are worse than just about anything you can do on that board. I wasn't proselytizing or anything, just using language I know which contains biblical quotes and truths. Usually in response to attacks on Christianity and Christian beliefs. They have no problem with such attacks, but much problem with defense.

Anyway, I thought I'd let you know there are going to be changes there as a new IT person was announced just before I was banned.

Texian
12-28-2013, 10:47 AM
No problem. I just had an opportunity to post this time after reading similar comments several times, usually directed at me.

By the way, I'm off the other board for making Christian references which are worse than just about anything you can do on that board. I wasn't proselytizing or anything, just using language I know which contains biblical quotes and truths. Usually in response to attacks on Christianity and Christian beliefs. They have no problem with such attacks, but much problem with defense.

Anyway, I thought I'd let you know there are going to be changes there as a new IT person was announced just before I was banned.

Welcome to Club. Some of the old Mods became quite vindictive, mean and unreasonable with any of those who dared to disagree with them. A few of my draftnik buddies asked me to return so I checked out the other board a while back, that place has become a ghost town

Marshall
12-28-2013, 11:14 AM
Welcome to Club. Some of the old Mods became quite vindictive, mean and unreasonable with any of those who dared to disagree with them. A few of my draftnik buddies asked me to return so I checked out the other board a while back, that place has become a ghost town

I'm not sure I want to go back. But it was nice having the link from NFL Network.

Now I remember. Yosarian was departing.

infantrycak
12-28-2013, 11:30 AM
I agree with this statement. I made my comments after I was told to butt out of a conversation that was originally started by myself and another member.

You weren't told to butt out of the conversation. You were told to butt out of a topic you clearly knew nothing about - precision v. accuracy.

Marshall
12-28-2013, 11:37 AM
You weren't told to butt out of the conversation. You were told to butt out of a topic you clearly knew nothing about - precision v. accuracy.

That's a false distinction when the topic is discussed in a conversation ON A MESSAGE BOARD. But keep discussing the topic. That's what we're here for.

Texian
12-28-2013, 11:46 AM
You weren't told to butt out of the conversation. You were told to butt out of a topic you clearly knew nothing about - precision v. accuracy.

You introduced shooting targets that remain stationary, are in a controlled environment, with ample time (minutes) to pull the trigger vs constant moving targets, that could involve wind, rain, snow, noise and the QB more often than not has 3 seconds or less to pull the trigger, and I'm the one who knows nothing. I think it has more to do with your propensity to always want to compare apples to oranges. A picture of a clay target would've made more sense.

infantrycak
12-28-2013, 11:58 AM
That's a false distinction when the topic is discussed in a conversation ON A MESSAGE BOARD.

No it is not. Texian was free to answer Blake's inquiry. Texian doesn't like the precision v. accuracy distinction and that is fine too. What is not OK is jumping in with ignorance and continuing as in his latest post to insist the topic is about firearms. He can do that too - note neither his posts nor he have been moderated. It just makes him look the fool to do so.

You introduced shooting targets that remain stationary, are in a controlled environment, with ample time (minutes) to pull the trigger vs constant moving targets, that could involve wind, rain, snow, noise and the QB more often than not has 3 seconds or less to pull the trigger, and I'm the one who knows nothing. I think it has more to do with your propensity to always want to compare apples to oranges. A picture of a clay target would've made more sense.

And now you look ignorant on both precision v. accuracy and firearms. Good job.

Texian
12-28-2013, 02:02 PM
No it is not. Texian was free to answer Blake's inquiry. Texian doesn't like the precision v. accuracy distinction and that is fine too. What is not OK is jumping in with ignorance and continuing as in his latest post to insist the topic is about firearms. He can do that too - note neither his posts nor he have been moderated. It just makes him look the fool to do so.



And now you look ignorant on both precision v. accuracy and firearms. Good job.

All fine and dandy but you never explained it yourself. When your analogies don't make sense everyone else is the fool because they don't agree. Tell us again about the itchy vagina and how that makes so much sense. Another reason your post get tiresome. Waiting now for you to tell us how hitting a stationary golf ball is the same as hitting a 90 MPH baseball.

badboy
12-28-2013, 02:10 PM
Again, this is a matter of opinion. In the 5 games I have watched Bridgewater, IMHO, Teddy doesn't make all the throws. My biggest concern is his deep ball, Bridgewater needs a high trajectory, a lot of air underneath in order to get the distance he needs. For me, I saw several of these type passes that would likely be INTs in the NFL. I have also noticed that while Bridgewater is accurate, his ball placement is suspect, which could also be more of a problem in the NFL.To clarify my post that you quote is from my prior post #44 & is about McCarron not Bridgewater.

I do agree with your POV on TB.

badboy
12-28-2013, 02:17 PM
This is very important. Bridgewater isn't playing in a funky spread like baylor,tamu,fresno st,or oregon where guys are horizontally stretching windows. He's making tight window throws to wrs who are not creating a lot of room. Not only that,the wrs don't have to dive,jump,or make lynn swann 1978 catches either. As someone stated, 70% doesn't mean you're accurate. I watch mariotta and unless the dude is running free,he's not letting it go. Go rewatch the stanford game when they re-routed the wrs and he wouldn't throw guys open. Bridgewater has to throw guys open,he doesn't have a choice.
Well then let's close the topic as Texans will just have to take him.

infantrycak
12-28-2013, 03:24 PM
All fine and dandy but you never explained it yourself. When your analogies don't make sense everyone else is the fool because they don't agree. Tell us again about the itchy vagina. Another reason your post get tiresome. Waiting now for to tell us how hitting a stationary golf ball is the same as hitting a 90 MPH baseball.

Not sure you will try to understand, but...

It is not an analogy.

Precision and accuracy are math and science concepts for evaluating data. Accuracy is a measure of nearness to a known or predicted value. Precision is a measure of repeatability. They can be applied to any data and the data types/sources can be wildly disparate (not analogous to each other). The causes of the inaccuracy or imprecision will naturally be specific to the data source, i.e. the causes of inaccuracy in hitting a golf ball or a baseball will differ but the accuracy of either can be evaluated and similarly precision in each. Data is commonly represented graphically such as on an X-Y graph. A "target" is nothing more than an X-Y graph with circles depicting equidistant points from center axis.

If you don't find the distinction worth discussing, fine, but it exists and is applicable regardless.

Texian
12-29-2013, 11:32 AM
Not sure you will try to understand, but...

It is not an analogy.

Precision and accuracy are math and science concepts for evaluating data. Accuracy is a measure of nearness to a known or predicted value. Precision is a measure of repeatability. They can be applied to any data and the data types/sources can be wildly disparate (not analogous to each other). The causes of the inaccuracy or imprecision will naturally be specific to the data source, i.e. the causes of inaccuracy in hitting a golf ball or a baseball will differ but the accuracy of either can be evaluated and similarly precision in each. Data is commonly represented graphically such as on an X-Y graph. A "target" is nothing more than an X-Y graph with circles depicting equidistant points from center axis.

If you don't find the distinction worth discussing, fine, but it exists and is applicable regardless.

Yes I do understand, I always try to err on the side of math and science, primarily because they are usually exact. In this case I think you might be over thinking it. Paralysis by over analysis. This comparison is more of an art than science. You can take 10 QBs of different size and makeup and give them all the same coaching. Teach them the same footwork, release, timing and you will still likely get 10 different completion % and ball placement grades. I'm sure you will disagree.....