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tedr
12-16-2013, 02:06 PM
After seeing the debacle this year that is the Texans, I've begun wondering what do the solid franchises have in common? Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts, Packers, Giants, and 49ers have done pretty well over an extended period of time. You might have an argument about the inclusion of some of the teams, or lack thereof, and that's fine.

Is it solid ownership, coaching, an ability to consistently evaluate talent, an ability to adapt to the changing environment, or simply luck, or a combination of all? I believe all organizations want to be the very best in all these areas, but most fall short. So again, what do the good organizations do that so many are not able to?

2012Champs
12-16-2013, 02:10 PM
I think a fair amount of luck would play into it. Also typically all teams hit runs where things arent good. Often times we dont remember them as well because they arent "our" team.

Of course solid ownership, coaching, talent evaluation etc are big factors.

Surreal McCoy
12-16-2013, 02:22 PM
After seeing the debacle this year that is the Texans, I've begun wondering what do the historically solid franchises have in common? Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts, Packers, Giants, and 49ers have done pretty well over an extended period of time. You might have an argument about the inclusion of some of the teams, or lack thereof, and that's fine.

Is it solid ownership, coaching, an ability to consistently evaluate talent, an ability to adapt to the changing environment, or simply luck, or a combination of all? I believe all organizations want to be the very best in all these areas, but most fall short. So again, what do the good organizations do that so many are not able to?

No offense intended, but you must be young because those franchises have been unexpurgated shoite for the majority of my lifetime. Only recently did they come into stability.

tedr
12-16-2013, 02:39 PM
No offense intended, but you must be young because those franchises have been unexpurgated shoite for the majority of my lifetime. Only recently did they come into stability.

None taken- by an extended period of time I'm talking about the last ten to fifteen years in most cases; with the Steelers and 49ers a bit longer. It's impossible to be good every single year, and I realize that...these teams though seem to have been consistently better than most franchises.

welsh texan
12-16-2013, 02:58 PM
No offense intended, but you must be young because those franchises have been unexpurgated shoite for the majority of my lifetime. Only recently did they come into stability.

Was going to point out that in my decade watching NFL I've known the packers and 49ers to be bottom feeders till relatively recently.

You don't get stability without a top end QB, you might get to the big dance though with a good enough roster (bears,cards,eagles).

I think the second you become playoff contenders, your FAs hit a premium, so you'd better be damn good if you want to build through the draft, which we haven't been the last few years, just as that happened, we busted on mercilus, reed, Brandon Harris, countless Oline etc.

It's not that build through the draft is wrong, but you can't limit yourself to that and then be **** at it.

When was the last time we signed a vet minimum FA that improved the starting lineup as well? Pollard? We haven't been good at finding value of late.

I don't believe this is truly a 2-14 team, I just think it got exposed early on this season in more ways than we fixable, a bit like what Kubiak said about kris brown and not being able to fix it in-season.

We also probably put too much of the playbook on tape in those comeback wins to leave many surprises. We also got the injury bug quite bad, which I don't accept as an excuse because the backups in year 8 should be good enough.

I still think we are built for stability, I just worry how long it might take to find the QB we need to realise it.

I'm wondering if the fact that Washington are likely to pick #2, not needing QB, or left tackle could help us bag a loot for someone who really wants clowney.

Getting loads of top picks when there isn't a true #1 out there might set us up for the next decade, as long as we can sort QB.

infantrycak
12-16-2013, 03:05 PM
Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts, Packers, Giants, and 49ers have done pretty well over an extended period of time.

Well for the most part you have some very stable QB situations sometimes coupled with very stable coaching.

Patriots - Belichick & Brady are the time period.
Colts - Manning now Luck, prolonged portion Dungy.
Packers - Favre now Rogers
Steelers - Big Ben, very stable coaching with Cowher and Tomlin
Niners - haven't really been that stable since the Montana and Young days even with a very poor division until recently.
Giants - not stable and for the most part have played in a crappy division

tedr
12-16-2013, 03:28 PM
Well for the most part you have some very stable QB situations sometimes coupled with very stable coaching.

Patriots - Belichick & Brady are the time period.
Colts - Manning now Luck, prolonged portion Dungy.
Packers - Favre now Rogers
Steelers - Big Ben, very stable coaching with Cowher and Tomlin
Niners - haven't really been that stable since the Montana and Young days even with a very poor division until recently.
Giants - not stable and for the most part have played in a crappy division

Looking at it again, you can make a case that the 49ers don't belong on the list. They did just recently get good again, and for the most part, the decade of the 2000s for them was not good.

However, as up and down as the Giants have been, they have won two Super Bowls in the last 6 years, and been to three since 2000, so they must be doing something right...I also don't think their division has been as bad for the last 10 years as you might think.

Your overall point, though, is spot on. Great quarterbacking, combined with great coaching, seems to be the winner.

Playoffs
12-16-2013, 03:50 PM
It's all about the QB.

And if it wasn't, it is now.

stingray
12-16-2013, 03:56 PM
Great Qb
Good to great coach
Good defense

In that order.

Honoring Earl 34
12-16-2013, 04:12 PM
The owner has good luck hiring a football guy .

The football guy has luck finding a head coach and has a knack for talent .

The head coach is at the front of a new wave whether it be the Tampa 2 , the WCO , no huddle , and has a QB to execute the offense . Walsh , Holgrem , Reid , McCarthy , as examples .

The brass makes good decisions on the cap . Try not to overpay when you have a player behind him . Develop depth .

dtran04
12-16-2013, 05:13 PM
A Quarterback.

Carr Bombed
12-16-2013, 05:48 PM
Leadership, competence, and foresight to see problems/issues coming down the road.

This team lacks all three. They have no leadership, there isn't any competence, and they can't foresee issues or problems that are on the horizon (cap, talent level, player depth, QB position, or even half time adjustments) They always react two steps too slow to everything they do and don't make adjustments until they're hit squarely in the face with every problem they face.

HJam72
12-16-2013, 07:23 PM
Did anyone say it's the QB?

JB
12-16-2013, 07:24 PM
They don't have wishy-washy fans :kitten:

Texecutioner
12-16-2013, 07:33 PM
After seeing the debacle this year that is the Texans, I've begun wondering what do the solid franchises have in common? Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Colts, Packers, Giants, and 49ers have done pretty well over an extended period of time. You might have an argument about the inclusion of some of the teams, or lack thereof, and that's fine.

Is it solid ownership, coaching, an ability to consistently evaluate talent, an ability to adapt to the changing environment, or simply luck, or a combination of all? I believe all organizations want to be the very best in all these areas, but most fall short. So again, what do the good organizations do that so many are not able to?

Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, and the Giants have all had accountability from the coaching staff on those teams. Ray Lewis really helped out being on the Ravens, but coaching for the most part.

The Colts, Patriots, and the Packers have all had one thing. Elite level HOF QB's. I included the Patriots in the other paragraph because BB is great, but his legacy wouldn't be anywhere near as good without Brady. BB has been a pretty poor GM for that franchise if you ask me. He coaches the team well though, and Brady is a monster. Manning and Rodgers are self explanatory to me.

I have no idea why you included the 49ers as they have only been good for the past two seasons. Before that they were a constant roller coaster switching coaches every 4 years because they chose bad hires and Smith played pretty bad for a long time.

hradhak
12-16-2013, 08:35 PM
I do think coaching can make a good team great. But the QB is really the key. The sad truth is that a franchise QB only comes along once every few years.

Ultimately though the difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning is luck.

Texian
12-16-2013, 09:06 PM
Two things I am watching right now that reflect Texans mindset that have set them apart, Glover Quin is a Lion and Ed Reed was a Texan. Justin Tucker just kicked his 29th consecutive FG. Tucker was signed as an UDFA the same year Texans used a 5th RD draft pick on Bullock.

acal21
12-16-2013, 09:07 PM
Qb
coach
coach
qb
qb
qb

Norg
12-16-2013, 09:22 PM
u gotta have a Great QB no SUPERSTAR QB


once u have that its fun in the SUn u just start building around Him

has he takes u to the playoffs every year and maybe win u a ring or 2


that's why I think are hands are kinda tied I guess we have no choice to get a QB with the First pick

then keep Schaub has a stop gap QB and just start to rebuild next year or if teddy isn't our guy then just trade back and then rebuild and stalk pile picks and Get our Cap in a good place and get rdy for the draft in 2015

steelbtexan
12-16-2013, 11:22 PM
Two things I am watching right now that reflect Texans mindset that have set them apart, Glover Quin is a Lion and Ed Reed was a Texan. Justin Tucker just kicked his 29th consecutive FG. Tucker was signed as an UDFA the same year Texans used a 5th RD draft pick on Bullock.

^^^^
This on all level throughout the org.

1.QB
2.GM/HC, getting elite level talent throughout the draft and adding talent in FA and how it relates to poin #3.
3. Cap management

The Texans have failed on all of these levels and are on pace for 2-14 because of these failures.

PockyAF
12-17-2013, 12:16 AM
a Teddy Bridgewater

The Pencil Neck
12-17-2013, 01:29 AM
It's all about luck and being in the right place and the right time.

When you look at all the teams, you see that it's cyclical.

The Colts were awesome back in the late 50's through the early 70's because they had Unitas and they had Don Shula and Weeb Ewbanks as their coaches. After a couple of bad years, they got Marchibroda and had some success... but then they crapped out and were terrible for almost 20 years until they hit on Faulk, and Manning and Mora followed by Dungy. Irsay played it smart and apparently, hit the lottery again with Luck and Pagano.

For the Steelers, it's all been about perserverance. They stuck with Noll and allowed him to work it out and build a dynasty. They let him coach until the team started to fall apart and they replaced him with Cowher. And they stuck with Cowher when a lot of teams would have fired him (consecutive losing seasons and three years with no playoffs.) Cowher took a chance and drafted Roethlisberger even though they thought they had their QB with Maddox and when Maddox went down, the Roethlisberger era started. That was some luck.

The Patriots? They were one of the powerhouse teams during the 60's but they fell on hard times. They were up and down. Berry took them to a SB but they got CRUSHED by the Bears. They were able to lure Parcells there in the 90's and he built them back up, took them to a SB, and then handed the team over to Pete Carroll... who couldn't get them back to a SB although he did a good job. They fired him and hired Belichick. Belichick had every intention of going with his future HOF QB... Bledsoe. Until Bledsoe went down and Belichick had to go with Tom Brady... and got lucky, lucky, lucky. They built that dynasty on a fluke injury and the little known "tuck rule."

The Niners were mostly suck until Bill Walsh revolutionized everything. And his first two seasons SUCKED. But what he built survived several years of Seifert and a couple of years of Mariucci. And then they went through 8 years of suck until they lucked into Harbaugh and Kaepernick.

The Ravens are the Ravens not because of the coaches or even the QBs, but because of the genius of Ozzie Newsome in getting the right players and the right coaches. There aren't very many Ozzie Newsomes out there.

You've got to luck into the right QB and the right Coach and the right FO that can all work together. And right now, we got nothing. We've got to hope that our FO can get it together and get both the right Coach and the right QB and the right QB might not be available this year.

And... it doesn't always come together in a year or two. We might have to take the lumps of letting a nascent Manning or Aikman go through a losing year while they learn the game.

And that's assuming that our FO makes the right choices. Which is going to take luck.

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 07:54 AM
After seeing the debacle this year that is the Texans...

No one wants to hear this right now, I'm sure. But I'm still impressed with how far the Texans have come in the 12 years we've been a franchise. We're sitting at the big boy table (playing in the NFL) & our organization, from the outside looking in, is as good as - if not better - than any of the franchises started in the last 15 years.

We're not perennial contenders, but I think we are well on our way. Our next coaching regime is going to play a big part of which way we go. But my money is on Bob continuing to lead this franchise in a positive direction.

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 08:38 AM
Was going to point out that in my decade watching NFL I've known the packers and 49ers to be bottom feeders till relatively recently.

You don't get stability without a top end QB, you might get to the big dance though with a good enough roster (bears,cards,eagles).


The Steelers might be the exception to the rule. I can't remember them missing the play-offs more than 2 years in a row. Their "low" was trotting out one & done teams with the likes of Cordelle Stewart at QB.

Other than that, the Patriots, Packers, & Colts were the Houston Texans of the league for a long, long time before they became the Patriots, Packers, & Colts.

BullNation4Life
12-17-2013, 10:01 AM
Great Owner
Great HC
Great QB

Hookem Horns
12-17-2013, 10:26 AM
Great Owner
Great HC
Great QB

Agreed and I think in that order too. One of those 3 being great can at times (temporarily) overcome the other 2.

The Patriots turned the corner when Kraft took over. The Bucs likewise when Malcolm Glazier bought the team (and they went back down when he turned it over to his sons due to illness).

IMO, the owner sets the culture. The Oilers/Titans were always a circus thanks to Bud. It will be interesting to see what that franchise does now.

The same was true with Al and the Raiders. Just look at the Cowboys. Jerry turned a storied franchise into a choke .. errr joke. Though at one time he was lucky and had greatness at 2 of those 3 (HC and QB).

McNair has always been a "play it safe" type of owner with way too much patience. It's been said that any coach would love to coach for McNair because of his patience and loyalty. That translates into they know they can be mediocre and still have job security. Kubiak was here WAY too long.

The Texans need a good kick in the pants and someone needs to come in here and offset the "nice guy/patient" culture around Reliant (that has been set by McNair himself).

Hervoyel
12-17-2013, 10:53 AM
Agreed and I think in that order too. One of those 3 being great can at times (temporarily) overcome the other 2.

The Patriots turned the corner when Kraft took over. The Bucs likewise when Malcolm Glazier bought the team (and they went back down when he turned it over to his sons due to illness).

IMO, the owner sets the culture. The Oilers/Titans were always a circus thanks to Bud. It will be interesting to see what that franchise does now.

The same was true with Al and the Raiders. Just look at the Cowboys. Jerry turned a storied franchise into a choke .. errr joke. Though at one time he was lucky and had greatness at 2 of those 3 (HC and QB).

McNair has always been a "play it safe" type of owner with way too much patience. It's been said that any coach would love to coach for McNair because of his patience and loyalty. That translates into they know they can be mediocre and still have job security. Kubiak was here WAY too long.

The Texans need a good kick in the pants and someone needs to come in here and offset the "nice guy/patient" culture around Reliant (that has been set by McNair himself).

Do you (or anyone wanting to speak up) think that McNair venturing into firing a coach during the season means that we're seeing that nice guy/patient culture start to erode a bit? Maybe just the slightest bit?

I'm hoping that McNair is going to at some point "grow a pair" and maybe just get a little more demanding than he did with Kubiak. part of me wonders why he pulled the trigger on Capers after four seasons but let Kubiak run eight seasons. Didn't Capers start with less than Kubiak did? Didn't Capers show "progress" every year until things fell apart? I'm not arguing that Capers should have stayed just that he let Dom go after the first down year without any season to work things out or change his staff. Then he gives Gary nearly a decade, lets him swap out DC's, then when he can't figure that out for himself he goes out and gets him Wade.

It's kind of a contrasting approach if you think about it. Maybe this go round we get impatient McNair again?

The Pencil Neck
12-17-2013, 11:09 AM
The Steelers might be the exception to the rule. I can't remember them missing the play-offs more than 2 years in a row. Their "low" was trotting out one & done teams with the likes of Cordelle Stewart at QB.

The low times for the Steelers was during the late-80's in the last days of Noll. They went 7 years with 1 playoff appearance before Cowher took over.

Under Cowher, they had a 3 year playoff drought from 98 to 2001.

They really have done a great job with being consistent over the years. Especially considering they went to the playoffs 1 time in almost 40 years at the beginning of their existence. And they were a bad team for Noll's first three years before he got them turned around.

BullNation4Life
12-17-2013, 11:10 AM
Agreed and I think in that order too. One of those 3 being great can at times (temporarily) overcome the other 2.

The Patriots turned the corner when Kraft took over. The Bucs likewise when Malcolm Glazier bought the team (and they went back down when he turned it over to his sons due to illness).

IMO, the owner sets the culture. The Oilers/Titans were always a circus thanks to Bud. It will be interesting to see what that franchise does now.

The same was true with Al and the Raiders. Just look at the Cowboys. Jerry turned a storied franchise into a choke .. errr joke. Though at one time he was lucky and had greatness at 2 of those 3 (HC and QB).

McNair has always been a "play it safe" type of owner with way too much patience. It's been said that any coach would love to coach for McNair because of his patience and loyalty. That translates into they know they can be mediocre and still have job security. Kubiak was here WAY too long.

The Texans need a good kick in the pants and someone needs to come in here and offset the "nice guy/patient" culture around Reliant (that has been set by McNair himself).

The Rooney Family in Pittsburgh are one of the best owners in the history of the NFL in my opinion. 3 HC, all Super Bowl winners. They have hit and missed on QBs but the ones they hit on, seem to win championships.

To them, it seems football is their life. Here, it seems football is just a hobby to McNair, just something fun to do because if it was his life, Kubiak would have never made it 8 years.

The Pencil Neck
12-17-2013, 11:13 AM
I think McNair's a good owner. I think he's an owner that wants to win. I don't mind him being patient. I prefer patience to someone who swaps out coaches every couple of years.

But I think getting the right GM, Coach, and QB is very, very difficult.

houstonspartan
12-17-2013, 11:20 AM
Accountability.

It's not a buzz word. It's a real life, real world concept. People who aren't doing their jobs get called on it, and are asked to improve. They are given chances to improve, and management lets them improve. If the same thing happens over over and over again, steps need to be taken to somehow remove that employee from that position. It's that simple.

Pete Carroll fired his offensive coordinator in the middle of a season - and this guy was a friend of his. I'm sure that was hard for him to do, and I'm sure his friend/employee was not happy. But he had to do what was best for the overall organization, and not for individuals (McNair's comments at the press conference were spot on regarding this). And, guess where the Seahawks franchise is these days?

This teams lack of accountability has finally caught up to them.

houstonspartan
12-17-2013, 11:26 AM
Do you (or anyone wanting to speak up) think that McNair venturing into firing a coach during the season means that we're seeing that nice guy/patient culture start to erode a bit? Maybe just the slightest bit?

I'm hoping that McNair is going to at some point "grow a pair" and maybe just get a little more demanding than he did with Kubiak. part of me wonders why he pulled the trigger on Capers after four seasons but let Kubiak run eight seasons. Didn't Capers start with less than Kubiak did? Didn't Capers show "progress" every year until things fell apart? I'm not arguing that Capers should have stayed just that he let Dom go after the first down year without any season to work things out or change his staff. Then he gives Gary nearly a decade, lets him swap out DC's, then when he can't figure that out for himself he goes out and gets him Wade.

It's kind of a contrasting approach if you think about it. Maybe this go round we get impatient McNair again?

Yep. I think McNair has changed.

When he was quiet for two months, everyone was saying, "Where's Bob McNair? Why hasn't he said anything about this mess?" I remember saying to a buddy of mine: "McNair is quiet because he's pissed. When he finally opens his mouth to address all of this, all hell is going to break lose."

And it did.

I watched that press conference twice. I was shocked by how angry and frustrated McNair seemed. Yeah, he was upset at having just fired a good friend and colleague. But I also got a sense of sheer anger and impatience from him. He was direct, blunt and did not pull any punches. It seemed like a different McNair.

Let's hope it sticks, because the country club culture surrounding this team has got to GO.

Double Barrel
12-17-2013, 01:12 PM
Man, there are so many tangible and intangible things that permeate great organizations.

First is an owner who gets it. He needs to know how to pick a good GM and good head coach, and knows when to apply pressure and when to let them run the show.

And obviously the staff below them. Scouting department to constantly and consistently bring fresh talent to the team, a training staff that knows how to maximize player potential, minimize injuries, and rehabilitate the injured, and of course, coordinators and position coaches that are effective in implementing schemes and weekly plans that play to the team's strengths.

Then the players. QB is the position that has to have 'the man'. And this may be the hardest part of all, because you never truly find out what a QB is all about until you've built a playoff team and see how he does in the pressure cooker of the post-season.

And obviously the rest of the positions have importance, depending on the kind of team being built and how much the rest of the team needs to make up for the QB. An elite QB can elevate everyone else and cover up a team's weaknesses to some extent. And this doesn't even bring up team chemistry and those intangibles like leadership, "luck" (or rather the ability to take advantage of other team's mistakes), and the perceptions of players about the franchise.

On a 1 to 10 scale of greatness, the Texans are about 0.25 right now without a head coach and without a starting QB on the roster. And I only grant them a 0.25 because of about 4-5 great players on the team.

PapaL
12-17-2013, 01:23 PM
Win.

That's it. They win.

Seegara
12-17-2013, 01:46 PM
There is one key that encompasses all other personnel issues and always sets great teams apart: a competent general manager who's in charge of all operations and an owner(s) who lets his GM run things and doesn't override him.

infantrycak
12-17-2013, 01:55 PM
There is one key that encompasses all other personnel issues and always sets great teams apart: a competent general manager who's in charge of all operations and an owner(s) who lets his GM run things and doesn't override him.

cough Patriots cough

JB
12-17-2013, 02:03 PM
I don't know, Houston Football has never seen one... ask the Dynamo how they do it :kitten:

Texian
12-17-2013, 03:04 PM
Do you (or anyone wanting to speak up) think that McNair venturing into firing a coach during the season means that we're seeing that nice guy/patient culture start to erode a bit? Maybe just the slightest bit?

I do and I think McNair lost his cool and is overreacting.

Yep. I think McNair has changed.

I watched that press conference twice. I was shocked by how angry and frustrated McNair seemed. Yeah, he was upset at having just fired a good friend and colleague. But I also got a sense of sheer anger and impatience from him. He was direct, blunt and did not pull any punches. It seemed like a different McNair.


That's what I saw. McNair was also befuddled, confused and extremely reactionary. The PC was more than just Kubiak, McNair had been festering for a while. IMHO I think it goes back to draft and Sam Montgomery. I think McNair was blindsided and embarrassed as to why most Teams had Montgomery off their board and the Texans had no clue. This certainly explains front office comments to Ian Rapoport about coaches having to much say so on draft picks. Yet at the PC McNair says this team has the talent to be in the Super Bowl. The two statements don't jive and show confusion and dysfunction in the FO starting at the very top.

You have that along with the discombobulation of explaining losing two to Jacksonville. Bob bemoans we lost two to the Jags then continues his bellyaching because Kubiak benched Keenum who had no chance of winning for Schaub who did and then declares Case his starting QB. It has definitely become clear that McNair is not thinking clearly, his judgement is clouded, he's overreacting and any logic is skewed. McNair painted himself in a corner with his limited parameters for a Head Coach which tells me McNair already has an idea who his next HC will be. Why not simply say, we are looking for the best HC available and will leave no stone unturned until we find him? McNair has lost his ability to think things through. Then again he may never of had that ability. I am afraid that a long term drought is only just beginning.

houstonspartan
12-17-2013, 04:13 PM
I do and I think McNair lost his cool and is overreacting.



That's what I saw. McNair was also befuddled, confused and extremely reactionary. The PC was more than just Kubiak, McNair had been festering for a while. IMHO I think it goes back to draft and Sam Montgomery. I think McNair was blindsided and embarrassed as to why most Teams had Montgomery off their board and the Texans had no clue. This certainly explains front office comments to Ian Rapoport about coaches having to much say so on draft picks. Yet at the PC McNair says this team has the talent to be in the Super Bowl. The two statements don't jive and show confusion and dysfunction in the FO starting at the very top.

You have that along with the discombobulation of explaining losing two to Jacksonville. Bob bemoans we lost two to the Jags then continues his bellyaching because Kubiak benched Keenum who had no chance of winning for Schaub who did and then declares Case his starting QB. It has definitely become clear that McNair is not thinking clearly, his judgement is clouded, he's overreacting and any logic is skewed. McNair painted himself in a corner with his limited parameters for a Head Coach which tells me McNair already has an idea who his next HC will be. Why not simply say, we are looking for the best HC available and will leave no stone unturned until we find him? McNair has lost his ability to think things through. Then again he may never of had that ability. I am afraid that a long term drought is only just beginning.

Just to clarify your point: You think firing a coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was an overreaction?

Are you saying that firing Kubiak was an overreaction, or that McNair's overall frustration at the press conference was an overreaction?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Double Barrel
12-17-2013, 04:13 PM
I am afraid that a long term drought is only just beginning.

The scary thought just crossed my mind that we may some day look back on the Kubiak years with nostalgia of when the Texans were a good team.

Texian
12-17-2013, 04:27 PM
Just to clarify your point: You think firing a coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was an overreaction?

Are you saying that firing Kubiak was an overreaction, or that McNair's overall frustration at the press conference was an overreaction?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

To be crystal clear I think Bob stewed all the way home on his flight from JAX to HOU. Others were all to happy to pour gasoline and stoke that fire along the way. By the time his jet landed in HOU Bob had made up his mind he was firing Kubiak the next morning. Rick Smith couldn't wait to call Peter King fast enough with the news the next morning. Nothing, absolutely nothing has come of it except they could talk to Lovie Smith. They could've done that anyways because everyone knew that the coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was getting fired the day the season ended.

Texian
12-17-2013, 04:34 PM
The scary thought just crossed my mind that we may some day look back on the Kubiak years with nostalgia of when the Texans were a good team.

Listening to the presser when Bob announced that Case Keenum was his starting QB for the rest of the season, my head sank, and I thought, Good Grief, Bob is Jerah Jones.

houstonspartan
12-17-2013, 04:35 PM
To be crystal clear I think Bob stewed all the way home on his flight from JAX to HOU. Others were all to happy to pour gasoline and stoke that fire along the way. By the time his jet landed in HOU Bob had made up his mind he was firing Kubiak the next morning. Rick Smith couldn't wait to call Peter King fast enough with the news the next morning. Nothing, absolutely nothing has come of it except they could talk to Lovie Smith. They could've done that anyways because everyone knew that the coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was getting fired the day the season ended.

Uh, I think Bob had been "stewing" for the last two months; that's why I think he was quiet for so long.

I don't think he woke up and randomly decided to fire Kubiak. I think this is something that he put a lot of serious thought into.


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Double Barrel
12-17-2013, 05:15 PM
Listening to the presser when Bob announced that Case Keenum was his starting QB for the rest of the season, my head sank, and I thought, Good Grief, Bob is Jerah Jones.

I"m not a big fan of owners getting in front of their football staff on personnel matters. I thought he should have deferred to Rick Smith on that one, just out of respect for his GM and also not to look so Jerrah-like.

It was a very strange press conference for McNair considering the past 12 seasons.

My only hope is that they really wanted to satisfy their curiosity about Keenum. Most of us have always assumed he was a Kubiak QB, but maybe those first couple of starts and connections with AJ made them curious? Just speculating, but it's not too often you see an owner openly endorse a third string UDFA QB like that press conference.

Texian
12-17-2013, 05:34 PM
Uh, I think Bob had been "stewing" for the last two months; that's why I think he was quiet for so long.

I don't think he woke up and randomly decided to fire Kubiak. I think this is something that he put a lot of serious thought into.


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I agree that for a couple of months Bob was disappointed and upset with the direction of the season. IMHO I think it was a very bad airplane ride home that set the firing of Kubiak and the poor press conference in motion the very next morning. To me that AM press conference didn't appear to be well planned, thought out, very last minute, done in haste. Bob appeared disheveled, angry, upset, not well composed, searching, dysfunctional and a bit discombobulated. All quite out of the ordinary for Bob McNair and his carefully managed image.

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 05:39 PM
Just to clarify your point: You think firing a coach who has lost 15 of 17 regular season games (11 in a row) in his eighth season in a job where the results have been mediocre (at best) was an overreaction?

Are you saying that firing Kubiak was an overreaction, or that McNair's overall frustration at the press conference was an overreaction?



I definitely think it was an overreaction. I know everyone wants to give Wade credit for getting us to the play-offs, but McNair fired Kubiak after we allowed a 14.4 ppg team to score 27 points on us for the second time in 3 weeks, then he promoted the guy most responsible for it. & these weren't just flukes... these were 80 yard drives ending in TDs.

Then if you think Wade was "forced" on Kubiak, it makes even less sense.

The undisciplined play of this team has largely been on the defensive side of the ball.

I don't have a problem with McNair firing Kubiak. I made peace with that when he stuck Schaub in the first time. But Kubiak got us 12-4 last season, it sure as heck wasn't the talent or the defense & Kubiak was recovering from a stroke.....

Firing Wade & Marciano made more sense to me than firing Kubiak (unless Kubiak was told to do just that & he said no, which I believe is totally possible & we'll never know), then promoting Vance Joseph & seeing if he can step up and be worth keeping on the staff in some capacity (depending on what the next coach wants to do).

Heck, firing Dennison & Benton made more sense than firing Kubiak in the middle of the season.

Texian
12-17-2013, 05:42 PM
I"m not a big fan of owners getting in front of their football staff on personnel matters. I thought he should have deferred to Rick Smith on that one, just out of respect for his GM and also not to look so Jerrah-like.

It was a very strange press conference for McNair considering the past 12 seasons.

My only hope is that they really wanted to satisfy their curiosity about Keenum. Most of us have always assumed he was a Kubiak QB, but maybe those first couple of starts and connections with AJ made them curious? Just speculating, but it's not too often you see an owner openly endorse a third string UDFA QB like that press conference.

One thing I noticed against the Colts, IMHO, Keenum was much better with Kubiak than without him. That's not endorsement for either, just something noticeable to me. I was FOR Kubiak to be gone going on 3 years, that said Kubiak was still the most O and QB knowledgeable of anyone on the Texans staff. If Bob truly was interested in Case's progress he should've have fired Gary at the ended of the year. Once again, Bob didn't think that one through.

houstonspartan
12-17-2013, 05:46 PM
I agree that for a couple of months Bob was disappointed and upset with the direction of the season. IMHO I think it was a very bad airplane ride home that set the firing of Kubiak and the poor press conference in motion the very next morning. To me that AM press conference didn't appear to be well planned, thought out, very last minute, done in haste. Bob appeared disheveled, angry, upset, not well composed, searching, dysfunctional and a bit discombobulated. All quite out of the ordinary for Bob McNair and his carefully managed image.

Lol. The man had just fired a guy to whom he was very close, and who he thought very highly of. His grim demeanor was appropriate. I would have been more concerned had he been happy and cheerful.


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thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 05:47 PM
Uh, I think Bob had been "stewing" for the last two months; that's why I think he was quiet for so long.

I don't think he woke up and randomly decided to fire Kubiak. I think this is something that he put a lot of serious thought into.



For him to announce Case will be the starting QB for the rest of the season screams knee jerk.

I thought Kubiak was safe as long as he continued to "develop" Keenum. No one could have predicted Schaub's penchant for throwing interceptions (specifically pick 6s), or Arian Foster throwing his back out, or OD going down, & they gave it the old college try at RT & it just didn't work out.

I don't think McNair "understood" Kubiak's non-committal on the starting QB question, or flat out disagreed, & I think he misread the Keenum benching (in my mind, that was to prevent him from becoming David Carr II). Keenum started the next week & would have been our starter the rest of the season, but for the way Keenum's progression stalled, you can't name him the starter. We would have had to win at least one game for it to even make sense to name Keenum the starter.

Would have made more sense if Keenum would have made "miraculous" plays to win a game, but Wade's defense carrying it's weight & protecting a lead would have worked just as well.

But Wade wasn't having none of that.

Double Barrel
12-17-2013, 05:52 PM
One thing I noticed against the Colts, IMHO, Keenum was much better with Kubiak than without him. That's not endorsement for either, just something noticeable to me. I was FOR Kubiak to be gone going on 3 years, that said Kubiak was still the most O and QB knowledgeable of anyone on the Texans staff. If Bob truly was interested in Case's progress he should've have fired Gary at the ended of the year. Once again, Bob didn't think that one through.

Purely conspiracy speculation, but perhaps firing the offensive brain HC and endorsing the third string UDFA as starter is a good way to almost ensure they lose out to get that no. 1 overall pick. And that's how a team can tank through FO manipulation, not asking the players themselves to give up, but just setting up a situation that all but ensures it.

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 05:56 PM
Firing Wade & Marciano made more sense to me than firing Kubiak (unless Kubiak was told to do just that & he said no, which I believe is totally possible & we'll never know), then promoting Vance Joseph & seeing if he can step up and be worth keeping on the staff in some capacity (depending on what the next coach wants to do).

Heck, firing Dennison & Benton made more sense than firing Kubiak in the middle of the season.

One more thing.... keeping Wade as head coach really limits our ability to see what Vance Joseph can do as he has to run everything through Wade. We know what we've got on the offensive side of the ball..... Dennison, Benton, Harris, Kirksey. They've been around for a while & though they may be good at what they do, won't be anything special.

Vance Joseph on the other hand, may be worth keeping around.

Texian
12-17-2013, 06:02 PM
Purely conspiracy speculation, but perhaps firing the offensive brain HC and endorsing the third string UDFA as starter is a good way to almost ensure they lose out to get that no. 1 overall pick. And that's how a team can tank through FO manipulation, not asking the players themselves to give up, but just setting up a situation that all but ensures it.

Keenum was highly ineffectual in JAX and Schaub did come close to pulling out a Win. Maybe that's what Bob was so angry about? They also could play a lot of younger 2nd team players to evaluate them and accomplish 2-14 that much easier. Teams out of the playoffs do it all the time.

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 06:09 PM
Keenum was highly ineffectual in JAX and Schaub did come close to pulling out a Win. Maybe that's what Bob was so angry about? They also could play a lot of younger 2nd team players to evaluate them and accomplish 2-14 that much easier. Teams out of the playoffs do it all the time.

They sat Aj, Ben, DeAndre early.

But not Case.

The Pencil Neck
12-18-2013, 01:03 AM
The scary thought just crossed my mind that we may some day look back on the Kubiak years with nostalgia of when the Texans were a good team.

That thought has crossed my mind but I didn't want to commit it to the internet.

Listen.

I've said this before.

We're going to hire some coaches and we're going to have some player turnover. And when we do that, I'm going to be right on the front-line spinning every move as best I can trying to figure out WHY they're doing the things they're doing and I'll be hoping for the best. I'll be looking for every ray of light and sunshine.

But right now... trying to look at this objectively... I don't have very high hopes for winning very many games over the next 5-6 years. I hope I'm wrong about that but there are only a few teams that seem to consistently make successful moves and this team hasn't shown itself to be one of those teams, yet. So we're going to have to get lucky.

thunderkyss
12-18-2013, 09:08 AM
That thought has crossed my mind but I didn't want to commit it to the internet.

Listen.

I've said this before.

We're going to hire some coaches and we're going to have some player turnover. And when we do that, I'm going to be right on the front-line spinning every move as best I can trying to figure out WHY they're doing the things they're doing and I'll be hoping for the best. I'll be looking for every ray of light and sunshine.

But right now... trying to look at this objectively... I don't have very high hopes for winning very many games over the next 5-6 years. I hope I'm wrong about that but there are only a few teams that seem to consistently make successful moves and this team hasn't shown itself to be one of those teams, yet. So we're going to have to get lucky.

I agree with everything in but the not winning for 5-6 years. I think we've got the potential to make a big jump next year. I still like the talent that we've got. & if we can lean on Foster the way Seattle leaned on Lynch last year, the QB issue shouldn't hurt us too much. If handled right, or course, it could help out tremendously.

Texian
12-18-2013, 09:25 AM
Lol. The man had just fired a guy to whom he was very close, and who he thought very highly of. His grim demeanor was appropriate. I would have been more concerned had he been happy and cheerful.


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Then I would have expected Bob to be much more sad than mad and that didn't appear to be the case. The thought crossed my mind that Bob and Gary may of have words just prior to the presser and that could've been a possible reason for Bob being so angry.

Hervoyel
12-18-2013, 11:24 AM
I agree with everything in but the not winning for 5-6 years. I think we've got the potential to make a big jump next year. I still like the talent that we've got. & if we can lean on Foster the way Seattle leaned on Lynch last year, the QB issue shouldn't hurt us too much. If handled right, or course, it could help out tremendously.

This is something I agree with. There's more to work with here than people want to believe and I think that's because it's been a long time since we've seen positive results. It's understandable but I don't think all of those guys just suddenly hit the same wall that Schaub did. There are very real reasons for the drop-off in play for some of these guys. There are also guys who seem to have simply given up. The real question is which of those guys can be saved and brought back to playing at the level they've been capable of and that we expected them to.

It's more than people think. There will be turnover in maybe half the roster but some of the guys being written off are still very good players and can help us.

houstonspartan
12-18-2013, 11:25 AM
FYI. Sean Payton, a coach I really can't stand, had a kicker miss two field goals on Sunday.

On Monday, he fired that kicker.

He also had a tackle miss a couple of important plays on Sunday.

On Monday, he benched that tackler.

If those players were here they'd be given infinite amount of time to play until they improved, regardless of their performance and how much their poor play cost just games.

Just saying.

WolverineFan
12-18-2013, 11:29 AM
FYI. Sean Payton, a coach I really can't stand, had a kicker miss two field goals on Sunday.

On Monday, he fired that kicker.

He also had a tackle miss a couple of important plays on Sunday.

On Monday, he benched that tackler.

If those players were here they'd be given infinite amount of time to play until they improved, regardless of their performance and how much their poor play cost just games.

Just saying.

Well that's that accountability that we've all been talking about. Good organizations have it. Crappy ones don't.

Double Barrel
12-18-2013, 12:15 PM
That thought has crossed my mind but I didn't want to commit it to the internet.

Listen.

I've said this before.

We're going to hire some coaches and we're going to have some player turnover. And when we do that, I'm going to be right on the front-line spinning every move as best I can trying to figure out WHY they're doing the things they're doing and I'll be hoping for the best. I'll be looking for every ray of light and sunshine.

But right now... trying to look at this objectively... I don't have very high hopes for winning very many games over the next 5-6 years. I hope I'm wrong about that but there are only a few teams that seem to consistently make successful moves and this team hasn't shown itself to be one of those teams, yet. So we're going to have to get lucky.

I always appreciate your perspective to look at the bright side of things.

Hopefully, though, they can turn this thing around within a couple of seasons. That's me being optimistic, because one thing I know after being an NFL fan for 40+ years is that nothing is guaranteed. Starting over with a new head coach and new QB always carries the risks of endless futility, and we see franchises struggle with this every year.

FYI. Sean Payton, a coach I really can't stand, had a kicker miss two field goals on Sunday.

On Monday, he fired that kicker.

He also had a tackle miss a couple of important plays on Sunday.

On Monday, he benched that tackler.

If those players were here they'd be given infinite amount of time to play until they improved, regardless of their performance and how much their poor play cost just games.

Just saying.

Hopefully, the lack of accountability and infinite patience out of loyalty are traits of Kubiak and not an institutional policy. McNair has shown these tendencies, but perhaps he is learning that they can also be a liability. Dude is not getting any younger, so the longest he should ever give a head coach is 5 years to make the playoffs. I'd say sooner, but we are talking baby steps in evolution as an owner.

OzzO
12-18-2013, 12:24 PM
FYI. Sean Payton, a coach I really can't stand, had a kicker miss two field goals on Sunday.

On Monday, he fired that kicker.

He also had a tackle miss a couple of important plays on Sunday.

On Monday, he benched that tackler.

If those players were here they'd be given infinite amount of time to play until they improved, regardless of their performance and how much their poor play cost just games.

Just saying.

Wade recently put players in sideline timeout if they had a penalty called on them by the refs during practice. Does that count?

:kitten:

thunderkyss
12-18-2013, 05:16 PM
FYI. Sean Payton, a coach I really can't stand, had a kicker miss two field goals on Sunday.

On Monday, he fired that kicker.

He also had a tackle miss a couple of important plays on Sunday.

On Monday, he benched that tackler.

If those players were here they'd be given infinite amount of time to play until they improved, regardless of their performance and how much their poor play cost just games.

Just saying.

& we'll see how it works out for them.


I understand he's the kicker & the kicker "has only one job." But any kicker we would have picked up would have been a guy who missed a few kicks in his career (probably never had a year like fat Randy has).... six in one hand if you ask me.

I don't agree with everything Kubiak has done. I'd have fired a few people here & there. I'd have benched a few people here & there. But there are coaches who've handled things similarly to the way Kubiak did & had good success. Dungy comes to mind. Lovi comes to mind.

I think there are other ways to holding people accountable than firing them. I think it's the head coaches responsibility to make players & coaches better. Not just shuffle them around until you find a good one.

Like it's the QBs job to make everyone around him better. Tom Brady doesn't get the luxury of an Andre Johnson or Arian Foster. Had his receivers been benched for not making catches, or his running backs benched for fumbling, they wouldn't be in the position they are now. They'd still be looking for the right players. Instead, they worked it out & they're better for it.

Belichick is the Brady of QBs. He makes Josh McDaniels better. He made Weis better. Kubiak's not. I had hoped he could be, I feel like he wants to be, but he's not.

Turn the page.

houstonspartan
12-18-2013, 05:48 PM
& we'll see how it works out for them.


I understand he's the kicker & the kicker "has only one job." But any kicker we would have picked up would have been a guy who missed a few kicks in his career (probably never had a year like fat Randy has).... six in one hand if you ask me.

I don't agree with everything Kubiak has done. I'd have fired a few people here & there. I'd have benched a few people here & there. But there are coaches who've handled things similarly to the way Kubiak did & had good success. Dungy comes to mind. Lovi comes to mind.

I think there are other ways to holding people accountable than firing them. I think it's the head coaches responsibility to make players & coaches better. Not just shuffle them around until you find a good one.

Like it's the QBs job to make everyone around him better. Tom Brady doesn't get the luxury of an Andre Johnson or Arian Foster. Had his receivers been benched for not making catches, or his running backs benched for fumbling, they wouldn't be in the position they are now. They'd still be looking for the right players. Instead, they worked it out & they're better for it.

Belichick is the Brady of QBs. He makes Josh McDaniels better. He made Weis better. Kubiak's not. I had hoped he could be, I feel like he wants to be, but he's not.

Turn the page.

Let me re-state something I said earlier in this thread: you don't fire people the very second they start having problems. You work with them, try and develop them, and give them a good amount of leeway to help them fix it. If they still don't improve, THEN you fire them. It's that simple.

Kubiak tried to work with several people for years, but ignored the fact that they were not improving, and costing us games.

That's why he's unemployed.

JB
12-18-2013, 08:11 PM
Let me re-state something I said earlier in this thread: you don't fire people the very second they start having problems. You work with them, try and develop them, and give them a good amount of leeway to help them fix it. If they still don't improve, THEN you fire them. It's that simple.

Kubiak tried to work with several people for years, but ignored the fact that they were not improving, and costing us games.

That's why he's unemployed.

Kubiak's arrogance is why he's unempoyed. He couldn't accept that other teams had figured out his scheme, and his player's couldn't pull it off. Other teams knew his tendencies and were quicker to the punch than his team. He couldn't adjust. Not from game to game or from half to half.

Thorn
12-19-2013, 07:42 AM
Re: What sets the good organizations apart?

They don't have "Houston" in front of their name?

handswarmer
12-19-2013, 09:21 AM
Two things I am watching right now that reflect Texans mindset that have set them apart, Glover Quin is a Lion and Ed Reed was a Texan. Justin Tucker just kicked his 29th consecutive FG. Tucker was signed as an UDFA the same year Texans used a 5th RD draft pick on Bullock.

Which means that 31 other teams, including the Ravens didn't think a draft pick was warranted. That was just good scouting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3tiMrkqaEE

handswarmer
12-19-2013, 09:57 AM
The better teams have a combo of the Five:

-Outstanding Front Office- one that is shrewd enough to sign key FA's, yet let a Vet go "Better to let them go 1 year to early than 1 year too late", avoid signing "names" but rather value, draft for value, not hype...

-To accomplish the above, one has to have an outstanding scouting department: Pro Scouting scouts the veterans and FA's already in the league, College Scouting turns the stones at Div III and under....

-Invisible Owner- one only needs to look at the differences between Owners like Jerruh Jones vs Robert Kraft or Dan Snyder vs Steve Bisciotti....

-Solid Coaching- guys more interested in the win than getting in front of a microphone: solid game management, clock management and allowing the coordinators to do their thing

-Solid Franchise QB- not a fantasy QB ala Romo, Stafford, etc....a solid guy with nerves of steel and cool under pressure.

Dutchrudder
12-19-2013, 10:05 AM
Capri Sun and orange slices make a big difference. Going out for ice cream after a win also sets goals for the players to work towards.

steelbtexan
12-19-2013, 10:31 AM
Great Owner
Great HC
Great QB


^^^^
These

1.An owner comitted to winning above all else.
2.HC/GM Leader of men who wont except anything but the best and is willing to do whatever it takes to win on or off the field. That means giving up his time for the cause.
3. Same as above, and losing makes the QB sick at his stomach the next morning. QB that is at his best at the end of games. Winning time

The Texans have none of these type people at these positions currently in their org.

Hervoyel
12-19-2013, 10:39 AM
You can have an owner who's committed to winning but who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and you're going nowhere. That owner has to be able to learn from his mistakes and not be lulled into complacency by any little bit of success he has. The Texans are bad about that last part and I sometimes wonder if McNair is where that tendency originates.

steelbtexan
12-19-2013, 10:46 AM
Listening to the presser when Bob announced that Case Keenum was his starting QB for the rest of the season, my head sank, and I thought, Good Grief, Bob is Jerah Jones.

BoB is more like Jerrah than many would like to admit.

Winning football certainly isn't the most important thing to either of them.

houstonspartan
12-19-2013, 12:28 PM
BoB is more like Jerrah than many would like to admit.

Winning football certainly isn't the most important thing to either of them.

Jerry Jones wants to win - bad. Problem is, he doesn't know how to win, and let's his ego get in the way. He thinks he some football genius, when clearly he is not.


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Double Barrel
12-19-2013, 12:37 PM
I think all 32 owners want to win. It is good for business.

The obvious difference among owners is obvious. Some make consistently smart football decisions and the results speak for themselves.

At least Mr. McNair is learning from one of the best: Texans' McNair earns close look at model of success in Patriots' Kraft (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/Texans-McNair-earns-close-look-at-model-of-5024650.php)

Let's just hope the lessons are absorbed and applied accordingly.

drs23
12-19-2013, 04:10 PM
I think all 32 owners want to win. It is good for business.

The obvious difference among owners is obvious. Some make consistently smart football decisions and the results speak for themselves.

At least Mr. McNair is learning from one of the best: Texans' McNair earns close look at model of success in Patriots' Kraft (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/Texans-McNair-earns-close-look-at-model-of-5024650.php)

Let's just hope the lessons are absorbed and applied accordingly.

I'm hard headed and refuse to subscribe to read. Try backdooring it but it all led back to your link.

Oh well...

DocBar
12-19-2013, 08:20 PM
IMO, it's mostly lucky timing: pairing the right head coach with the right QB. You can "what if" any thing to death. What if Peyton Manning had Marty Schottenhiemer as his HC, or anyone even remotely like him? Probably closer to Trent Dilfer than the Manning we all know and "love".

Having the right coach matched with the right QB and a good surrounding cast equals success. In the salary cap era, a very good GM is of utmost importance.

Another "what if". What if Tony Romo played for the Steelers or Patriots, or even our own Texans? He's a very good QB who, under different circumstances,might well have been a great QB. His GM continually hamstrings him while placing more and more responsibility on him.

What if David Carr went to a "real" NFL team when he was drafted? Had all the tools to be great. His brother seems to, also.

Norg
12-19-2013, 10:45 PM
what if the Texans drafted Big ben

What if the cowboys drafted JJ WATT


what if Matt schaub stayed in Atlanta

steelbtexan
12-19-2013, 11:09 PM
& we'll see how it works out for them.


I understand he's the kicker & the kicker "has only one job." But any kicker we would have picked up would have been a guy who missed a few kicks in his career (probably never had a year like fat Randy has).... six in one hand if you ask me.

I don't agree with everything Kubiak has done. I'd have fired a few people here & there. I'd have benched a few people here & there. But there are coaches who've handled things similarly to the way Kubiak did & had good success. Dungy comes to mind. Lovi comes to mind.

I think there are other ways to holding people accountable than firing them. I think it's the head coaches responsibility to make players & coaches better. Not just shuffle them around until you find a good one.

Like it's the QBs job to make everyone around him better. Tom Brady doesn't get the luxury of an Andre Johnson or Arian Foster. Had his receivers been benched for not making catches, or his running backs benched for fumbling, they wouldn't be in the position they are now. They'd still be looking for the right players. Instead, they worked it out & they're better for it.

Belichick is the Brady of QBs. He makes Josh McDaniels better. He made Weis better. Kubiak's not. I had hoped he could be, I feel like he wants to be, but he's not.

Turn the page.

How many SB's did Dungy win with Manning in his prime? Dungy was very overrated. IMHO

Lovie was a good HC and a great man. He never had the luxury of having an above avg QB other than the yr Cutler got hurt in the NFC championship game. With that said, I dont want him as the next Texans HC.

thunderkyss
12-20-2013, 07:39 AM
IMO, it's mostly lucky timing:.

Luck is when opportunity meets preparation. 2011, Brady played like crap in the AFC Championship game & still won. Had our team been better prepared (had any team been better prepared) we'd have been in the Super Bowl with a good chance to win it. Everything had to go right.... Schaub not getting hurt & that OL paving the way for Arian & JJ continuing his break-out season (it actually started at the tail end of his rookie season)...

Opportunity & preparation. Gots to be able to take advantage of it. Some teams "always" manage to, others "always" fall short.

thunderkyss
12-20-2013, 07:41 AM
How many SB's did Dungy win with Manning in his prime? Dungy was very overrated. IMHO

Lovie was a good HC and a great man. He never had the luxury of having an above avg QB other than the yr Cutler got hurt in the NFC championship game. With that said, I dont want him as the next Texans HC.

Right now I'd be happy if the Texans had a HC that could win us 1 Super Bowl. Maybe my standards are a little low.... sue me.

Lovie Smith may very well be the next Belichick.... or even Harbaugh. I'm not pulling for him to become the next Texans HC, I don't think he would be the best choice, but I definitely don't think he'd be the worst. I want Bill O'brien. I don't want Wade Smith. Lovie is in the middle somewhere.

Hervoyel
12-20-2013, 08:27 AM
Right now I'd be happy if the Texans had a HC that could win us 1 Super Bowl. Maybe my standards are a little low.... sue me.

Lovie Smith may very well be the next Belichick.... or even Harbaugh. I'm not pulling for him to become the next Texans HC, I don't think he would be the best choice, but I definitely don't think he'd be the worst. I want Bill O'brien. I don't want Wade Smith. Lovie is in the middle somewhere.

I don't Wade Smith either. He can barely play LG these days so I have no confidence in his ability to coach the position, much less an entire team.

:kitten:

gafftop
12-20-2013, 08:39 AM
^^^^
These

1.An owner comitted to winning above all else.
2.HC/GM Leader of men who wont except anything but the best and is willing to do whatever it takes to win on or off the field. That means giving up his time for the cause.
3. Same as above, and losing makes the QB sick at his stomach the next morning. QB that is at his best at the end of games. Winning time

The Texans have none of these type people at these positions currently in their org.

1.See you added Owner to list. Owners job is to get an exceptional GM/front office football people. FAILED and STILL FAILING just my opinion.
2.GM job is to hire head coach, handle talent and cap management. TOTAL FAILURE WITH NO CHANGE IN SIGHT
3.HC Kubiak was lacking in this area.
3.Real NFL QB

The Texans have none of the above therefore last place. I just hope we get LUCKY in hiring HC, draft, etc because based on where we are and who has/is (Smith) making these decisions I am not real confident change will occur.

If you have strong QB/HC like the Patriots and Saints the GM is maybe not as important.

When you have nothing as the Texans do then the GM is the KEY.

My opinion is we are handicapped with Smith as our GM. Look at the situation we are in with him in charge.

Hervoyel
12-20-2013, 10:05 AM
It's cumulative. You have to get an owner who has good intentions where winning is concerned. He wants to win and then he's got to be able to identify the right people to fill those GM and HC decisions. Even if he gets them then they have to do the same thing and identify the assistant coaches and players (and scouts and everything else that goes into it) and then be able to put themselves in a position to get them.

Even if everything falls into place up to that point there may not be a franchise QB in the draft when they have the opportunity to pick one. The talent pool in available assistant coaches might not be high when you happen to need one. So many things can get in the way and they all have to line up over the course of a few years to get you to the point where you can even be in the conversation and compete for a Super Bowl. Then that year everything has to fall into place to make it actually happen.

Until McNair gets the GM and HC hiring right we're in that group of organizations that have a few good years every now and then but aren't really in the running for the title game. We have been an "also ran" for the past couple of years, albeit an also-ran that made it to the playoffs. Not a real threat to win the AFC or the Lombardi.

HJam72
12-20-2013, 10:16 AM
Only so much you can do about this, but I believe some of it is also the psychological effects of the team name and history. Are you going to hold your head high and gut through adversity if you are a "Brown" or a "Steeler" a "Lion" or a "Packer"? Sometimes things do change over extended periods of time, of course, but it's hard not to feel that beating the best teams in games that really count is impossible when you are on a team with no winning history, or one too far in the past.

I know that a young Montana, Elway, Brady, etc. would laugh at that, but how about Duane Brown when his QB is throwing pick-6's? How about a Kareem Jackson after a few losses in a row and Brian Cushing out for the season? Winners must have positive attitudes and having a positive attitude is tricky-dicky for those who haven't already won.

kingtexan
12-26-2013, 04:36 PM
It all has to start with the owner, and wanting to have a winning organization, then being able to make the tough decisions that will enable the organization to achieve what it has set out to do.

For instance, if Rick Smith is not fired on Monday, I would just as soon Bob McNair sell the team to someone with the ability to run it properly. Someone who can make decisions based on winning.

There is absolutely no argument that convinces me Rick has earned the right to be here.