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djohn2oo8
12-15-2013, 03:18 PM
Fire him. Now.

TheIronDuke
12-15-2013, 03:23 PM
Rick Smith has built such a terrible team. I can't believe how little talent we have everywhere on the field. He is only capable of making first round picks and after that he is completely incapable of finding anything approaching talent. Since this moron took over we haven't gotten anything from a second or third rounder outside of one season from Barwin.

TheMatrix31
12-15-2013, 03:30 PM
The starting talent on this team is fantastic but the depth management and construction is absolutely awful. If we're going to be dealt catastrophic injuries year after year after year, we need depth.

dream_team
12-15-2013, 03:35 PM
I hate these all encompassing threads. Why not start an all encompassing Texans thread so that there's only one thread we have to worry about?

TheIronDuke
12-15-2013, 03:37 PM
The starting talent on this team is fantastic but the depth management and construction is absolutely awful. If we're going to be dealt catastrophic injuries year after year after year, we need depth.

Please name the fantastic talent, especially the talent missing due to injury outside of Cushing or Foster who we will have to assume will not be able to put a full season together.

hradhak
12-15-2013, 03:44 PM
The starting talent on this team is fantastic but the depth management and construction is absolutely awful. If we're going to be dealt catastrophic injuries year after year after year, we need depth.

His problem has been that he HAD great starting talent and has replaced them with terrible players. I think this team needs an overhaul, get rid of the bad contracts and open up some room for the future.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 03:46 PM
Please name the fantastic talent, especially the talent missing due to injury outside of Cushing or Foster who we will have to assume will not be able to put a full season together.

Even as an avid Risk Smith basher, he has done pretty well in the first round. Watt, Cushing, Hopkins, and Brown. That's one ROTY and one defensive player of the year in his 2nd season. However, I'm not sure at how much that had to do with Wade wanting those defensive players and Kubiak wanting Brown than it was Smith making these choices.

My biggest problems with Smith is how he handles the cap and how little he knows how to make deals happen in trades and free agency. I don't like his "build only through the draft" philosophy. I've always hated it. I don't think he'll be going anywhere though.

TheIronDuke
12-15-2013, 03:49 PM
Even as an avid Risk Smith basher, he has done pretty well in the first round. Watt, Cushing, Hopkins, and Brown. That's one ROTY and one defensive player of the year in his 2nd season. However, I'm not sure at how much that had to do with Wade wanting those defensive players and Kubiak wanting Brown than it was Smith making these choices.

My biggest problems with Smith is how he handles the cap and how little he knows how to make deals happen in trades and free agency. I don't like his "build only through the draft" philosophy. I've always hated it. I don't think he'll be going anywhere though.

I agree with him being good at drafting in the first round, please see my first post in this thread. However, he really sucks at drafting in every other round, which is where depth and/or surprising stars usually come from.

texanhead08
12-15-2013, 09:44 PM
When Casserly was fired the main gripe everyone had is how he missed on so many 2nd and 3rd round picks. Its just crazy that we hired a GM that might be even worse. Its just crazy that 11yrs in we have had 2 GM's that might be the 2 worst drafting GM's in the league at their time of employment with the Texans.

houstonhurricane
12-15-2013, 09:50 PM
They should fire him and clean house now. I hate to think of another awful season next year with a new coach and facing the possibility of GM turnover then...more dysfunction could await.

texanhead08
12-15-2013, 09:53 PM
They should fire him and clean house now. I hate to think of another awful season next year with a new coach and facing the possibility of GM turnover then...more dysfunction could await.


I agree because firing Rick Smith a year or 2 after hiring a new coach could lead to another coaching change if the GM and the coach aren't on the same page.

disaacks3
12-15-2013, 10:02 PM
I long for the days of the 2006 draft.

1 1(1) Mario Williams DE NC State
2 1(33) DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama
3 1(65) Charles Spencer OG Pittsburgh
3 2(66) Eric Winston T Miami (FL)
4 1(98) Owen Daniels TE Wisconsin
6 1(170) Wali Lundy RB Virginia
7 43(251) David Anderson WR Colorado State


Damn!

BigBull
12-15-2013, 10:50 PM
I long for the days of the 2006 draft.



1 1(1) Mario Williams DE NC State

2 1(33) DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama

3 1(65) Charles Spencer OG Pittsburgh

3 2(66) Eric Winston T Miami (FL)

4 1(98) Owen Daniels TE Wisconsin

6 1(170) Wali Lundy RB Virginia

7 43(251) David Anderson WR Colorado State





Damn!


I had almost forgot how good that draft was. Without a doubt the Texans best draft ever.


Sent from the future...

dalemurphy
12-15-2013, 10:57 PM
I long for the days of the 2006 draft.

1 1(1) Mario Williams DE NC State
2 1(33) DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama
3 1(65) Charles Spencer OG Pittsburgh
3 2(66) Eric Winston T Miami (FL)
4 1(98) Owen Daniels TE Wisconsin
6 1(170) Wali Lundy RB Virginia
7 43(251) David Anderson WR Colorado State


Damn!

In April of '09, rick smith acquired the following rookies from a much less favorable draft position:

Cushing
Barwin
Quin
Casey
McCain (ruined now but a good player at one point)
AFoster
TJamison

kiwitexansfan
12-15-2013, 11:00 PM
In April of '09, rick smith acquired the following rookies from a much less favorable draft position:

Cushing
Barwin
Quin
Casey
McCain (ruined now but a good player at one point)
AFoster
TJamison

Sorry, when was McCain not an utter disaster?

Good draft though.

I for one endorse Rick Smith as GM of the Texans.

Norg
12-15-2013, 11:33 PM
rick smith helped build this crappy team he might has well go with this crappy Team

We need a clean Reset

get our cap in good status stockpile some picks and rebuild in 14 and get rdy to make a run in 2015 when the SB is in Houston that's what I would do

ajohnson80
12-16-2013, 12:15 AM
I don't know much about Smith's direction ideas or general goals for the team. I never hear him comment on these sort of things and I have no idea if he just doesn't quite understand how the cap works or is just one of the lazier gms in the league. jjo is the last descent fa signing and he was only good for 1 season. It just seems like he picks whatever player seems best at whatever position of need. I can't give him full credit for any draft he was part of and good because we all know Kubiak and Wade would get their guy first. We need new blood with a clear direction and plan for the future. Morey is a great example of a transparent gm with a clear direction and goal that the fan base can appreciate and get behind.

This is the freaking Houston Texans. We sell out every game and there's a waiting list a mile long for season tickets. Bob needs to get some brilliant minds with innovative ideas and not recycle the same tired nfl names.

Smith needs to go...this is the most important offseason the Texans will have in the next 5 years and i really hope they have their **** together.

bhsman
12-16-2013, 01:28 AM
Sorry, when was McCain not an utter disaster?

McCain was probably the best slot corner in 2011 and a good reason why the defense was so good. Then he broke his foot. :(

Good draft though.

I for one endorse Rick Smith as GM of the Texans.

2010 was a really good draft, too; every person from that draft is either a starter in the NFL or a solid contributor. Between the consistent home runs on first round picks and his pick history, I also endorse Rick Smith.

LonerATO
12-16-2013, 02:21 AM
When Casserly was fired the main gripe everyone had is how he missed on so many 2nd and 3rd round picks. Its just crazy that we hired a GM that might be even worse. Its just crazy that 11yrs in we have had 2 GM's that might be the 2 worst drafting GM's in the league at their time of employment with the Texans.

The thing that lows my ind is how Smith has had 8-years to build up depth and there is none on this roster, while Casserly just sucked at the draft outside of 2006.

infantrycak
12-16-2013, 03:28 AM
When Casserly was fired the main gripe everyone had is how he missed on so many 2nd and 3rd round picks. Its just crazy that we hired a GM that might be even worse. Its just crazy that 11yrs in we have had 2 GM's that might be the 2 worst drafting GM's in the league at their time of employment with the Texans.

Someone has forgotten Harrington, Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, Ernie Sims and then JaMarcus Russell, McFadden, Heyward-Bey and Rolando McClain.

TheMatrix31
12-16-2013, 03:54 AM
Please name the fantastic talent, especially the talent missing due to injury outside of Cushing or Foster who we will have to assume will not be able to put a full season together.

Our ideal, healthy starting roster is what I'm talking about. If you don't think Andre Johnson , Arian Foster, Duane Brown, Chris Myers, Owen Daniels, JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, and Jonathan Joseph is an assload of talent, I'm not sure what to tell you. Not to mention the good players by their side, including guys like Antonio Smith, Ben Tate, Danieal Manning, etc.

But obviously, behind those guys, the depth is terrible. And it's killed us the last few years.

Texian
12-16-2013, 09:25 AM
For all you folks liking or disliking drafts that you attribute to Rick Smith, you need to consider that Rick Smith is GM today because Bob McNair thought the coaches had to much control over the draft process.....that tells me Smith had little or no say..... just saying

Honoring Earl 34
12-16-2013, 09:27 AM
For all you folks liking or disliking drafts that you attribute to Rick Smith, you need to consider that Rick Smith is GM today because Bob McNair thought the coaches had to much control over the draft process.....that tells me Smith had little or no say..... just saying

Then he didn't do his job .

Runner
12-16-2013, 09:31 AM
Then he didn't do his job .

It left him plenty of time to concentrate on political machinations though.

Texian
12-16-2013, 09:35 AM
Then he didn't do his job .

You and I agree. Bob McNair doesn't. I also think as long as Smith is GM the Texans will wallow in the mire. Smith when hired was the least experienced and least knowledgeable GM in the NFL. His training and schooling is limited to the Shanahan way of doing business. And I expect Lovie Smith to be HC because Lovie has shown he doesn't need to have control of the roster.

HOU-TEX
12-16-2013, 09:51 AM
For all you folks liking or disliking drafts that you attribute to Rick Smith, you need to consider that Rick Smith is GM today because Bob McNair thought the coaches had to much control over the draft process.....that tells me Smith had little or no say..... just saying

I tend to agree somewhat.

To me, the fact that he's still here tells me he was/is merely a puppet to the organization. It appears he and McNair will be handling the draft from here on out. I reckon the new staff will state their recommendations and be sent to the back row come draft time.

Runner
12-16-2013, 10:16 AM
I tend to agree somewhat.

To me, the fact that he's still here tells me he was/is merely a puppet to the organization. It appears he and McNair will be handling the draft from here on out. I reckon the new staff will state their recommendations and be sent to the back row come draft time.

I don't see how anyone with such an important role in the organization can be absolved of responsibility. This year's crash, coupled with many years of under achievement points to a structural problem with the organization. There are only two choices I can see - Smith was performing as a real GM and has responsibility for the state of the team, or he was a figurehead who wasn't performing as a real GM for years.

Either way, he hasn't earned the right to stay based on performance. I suspect he will be released at some point before the next season starts

HOU-TEX
12-16-2013, 10:21 AM
I don't see how anyone with such an important role in the organization can be absolved of responsibility. This year's crash, coupled with many years of under achievement points to a structural problem with the organization. There are only two choices I can see - Smith was performing as a real GM and has responsibility for the state of the team, or he was a figurehead who wasn't performing as a real GM for years.

Either way, he hasn't earned the right to stay based on performance. I suspect he will be released at some point before the next season starts

I agree. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite pissed he's still here. Going by what I've read and the fact he's still here just tells me he's nothing more than McNair's fluffer. I could be way off base, but dadgum, what other reasoning is there?.

Hervoyel
12-16-2013, 10:26 AM
I think the team is talented, probably more so than many here do but I also think that "talent" by itself isn't enough for most players. It's easy to find guys who are tall enough, fast enough, strong, enough, or big enough. It's hard to find guys who have that and who can also self-motivate and/or play consistently. I think we have a lot of guys in NFL "bodies" who don't have NFL minds or NFL mindsets. I don't know that there's much a coach can do about that. You can give them a system that doesn't make them think too much (where have we heard this before) but it will eventually be exposed as will those players.

You probably have some of those guys on every NFL team with very few exceptions but being unable to recognize them for what they are is a problem with a GM.

We've got a team (and quite likely that's on the GM) that can't find those guys and the only way we're going to be long-term successful is to go out and find those guys. The good teams do it every year. Those guys don't last. they don't have HoF careers. They just come in when needed and use their heads and their "high motor" for lack of a better term to overcome their physical limitations. You gotta have those guys on the roster. We have frauds at too many positions not contributors. We have guys all over our roster that often play like people who don't know what they're doing. Look how unprepared the Texans appear much of the time. That means either that they are being coached poorly or they're incapable of doing what they've been taught outside of a predictable practice environment.

Are we to believe that all of our coaches can't teach? We're in a situation where nobody comes here and gets better. When did you last see or hear of a team where nobody ever gets better? Great players come here and stay great. I think Watt is Watt on any team in the league. Same with AJ and even probably Foster. Those guys have NFL-ready minds. They can motivate themselves. There are others but we seem to luck into them past round one. The rest of the picks are kind of a crapshoot.

thunderkyss
12-16-2013, 10:52 AM
My biggest problems with Smith is how he handles the cap and how little he knows how to make deals happen in trades and free agency. I don't like his "build only through the draft" philosophy. I've always hated it. I don't think he'll be going anywhere though.

I don't have a problem with cap management. "We" made an assumption 4 years ago about the future valuation of the cap & things didn't unfold in our favor. If they had, no telling how good this team could be. Considering the situation he's in, I think he's doing the best he can.

But I do agree with you about FAs, trades, & just "connected" to the NFL. He seems to be the most disconnected GM in the whole league. He has no idea what other players are signing for..... Laron Landry would have been a great acquisition, Dumerville did not break the bank & when we struck out on RT this past offseason, Jacksonville makes a nice trade to acquire one.

& Demeco.... did we even try to talk him into taking less money?

Then the draft picks. I don't have a problem taking a flyer every now & then, but if we're going to try to get half the picks on the practice squad, why don't we try to trade those picks for future picks?

His picks are good to fair. A few special picks in there. He's probably doing just as good as anyone out there. However... I don't think he does a good job at all as far as moving in the draft to get the player he wants. We're either going to sit there & take the highest graded player on our list, or drop down, try to get him later, or take who ever is next on our list.

Now, we did move up in the 2nd to get Brandon Harris & I thought that was a big boy move, but..... the guy seldom sees the field.

steelbtexan
12-16-2013, 11:46 AM
I think the team is talented, probably more so than many here do but I also think that "talent" by itself isn't enough for most players. It's easy to find guys who are tall enough, fast enough, strong, enough, or big enough. It's hard to find guys who have that and who can also self-motivate and/or play consistently. I think we have a lot of guys in NFL "bodies" who don't have NFL minds or NFL mindsets. I don't know that there's much a coach can do about that. You can give them a system that doesn't make them think too much (where have we heard this before) but it will eventually be exposed as will those players.

You probably have some of those guys on every NFL team with very few exceptions but being unable to recognize them for what they are is a problem with a GM.

We've got a team (and quite likely that's on the GM) that can't find those guys and the only way we're going to be long-term successful is to go out and find those guys. The good teams do it every year. Those guys don't last. they don't have HoF careers. They just come in when needed and use their heads and their "high motor" for lack of a better term to overcome their physical limitations. You gotta have those guys on the roster. We have frauds at too many positions not contributors. We have guys all over our roster that often play like people who don't know what they're doing. Look how unprepared the Texans appear much of the time. That means either that they are being coached poorly or they're incapable of doing what they've been taught outside of a predictable practice environment.

Are we to believe that all of our coaches can't teach? We're in a situation where nobody comes here and gets better. When did you last see or hear of a team where nobody ever gets better? Great players come here and stay great. I think Watt is Watt on any team in the league. Same with AJ and even probably Foster. Those guys have NFL-ready minds. They can motivate themselves. There are others but we seem to luck into them past round one. The rest of the picks are kind of a crapshoot.

You need to add 1 great and 2-3 above avg players every yr. This is why I believe you do what you have to do to get 4 picks in the 1st 3 rds every yr. This means trading up most of the time, but sometimes trading down. You then take players with character flaws but talent in rds 5-7. Micheal Dyer/DaRick Rodgers/Burfict etc... Most of these guys will bust, but every 2-3 yrs you will get a 1st rd talent late in the draft. If you miss you really haven't lost anything.

For instance this yr to add 3 impact players you draft 1- at 1-1 then trade back up to late in the 1st to get another impact player. At 4-1 you should be able to get an OD type talent. Then draft troubled/injued but talented players after that.

This increases your odds of getting impact players. You dont draft Lazy/injured players in the 3rd/4th rd. Montgomery/B.Williams.

I've got liitle faith in Rick even considering a draft strategy like his. Let alone carrying out this draft strategy.

Porky
12-16-2013, 12:06 PM
The fact that Rick Smith apparently has a job here in 2014 tells me Boob McNair still doesn't get the word accountability and still is a settler for mediocrity and that he desires yes men. And mediocrity is what he'll get.

Who was the one that said Case would be starting? Wasn't Rick Smith. Shouldn't the GM be making that call at that point in time? He comes off publicly as a hands off owner, but I think that utterance gives us a glimpse of the behind the scenes stuff that is happening and I think he is basically the de facto GM of this team. Rick Smith is nothing but a puppet and the one area that he is in charge of - Cap management - he is a failure.

Nothing personal with Rick Smith who is a by all accounts a good Christian and a good guy, but he needs to go. This team needs an enema, and McNair wants to throw some pepto bismol down the gut and hope that is enough. It isn't.

Hervoyel
12-16-2013, 12:58 PM
The fact that Rick Smith apparently has a job here in 2014 tells me Boob McNair still doesn't get the word accountability and still is a settler for mediocrity and that he desires yes men. And mediocrity is what he'll get.

Who was the one that said Case would be starting? Wasn't Rick Smith. Shouldn't the GM be making that call at that point in time? He comes off publicly as a hands off owner, but I think that utterance gives us a glimpse of the behind the scenes stuff that is happening and I think he is basically the de facto GM of this team. Rick Smith is nothing but a puppet and the one area that he is in charge of - Cap management - he is a failure.

Nothing personal with Rick Smith who is a by all accounts a good Christian and a good guy, but he needs to go. This team needs an enema, and McNair wants to throw some pepto bismol down the gut and hope that is enough. It isn't.

GM's around the league do what owners tell them to do. Lets not be too hasty to brand Rick Smith a "puppet" like he's the only one. they're all puppets to some degree. Some owners think they know it all and their puppet does what he's told. Other owners stand back and let their GM do everything but if they want something I seriously doubt that they're in danger of hearing the word "No" from anyone who wants to keep his job.

I think that 8 years ago McNair probably delegated damn near everything to Gary who delegated what he didn't want to deal with to Rick. That's what I think. I don't really know but I bet that the parts of the GM job Gary wanted stayed with Gary and Bob was fine with that because he didn't know much about the football side of things and he knew that he didn't.

Today I see McNair as being like that guy in the Progressive Insurance commercial who's trying to get the dude juggling chainsaws to throw him one. Bob's stepping up and saying "I got this. Throw me one!" except in this case the guy juggling chainsaws is Rick and he's got no real say in things.

We're going to find out what Bob's learned (Please let him have learned something! Please!) and whether Rick's got any ability as a GM now. The guy who was really keeping those chainsaws in the air (to the extent that they were "in the air") is gone.

utahmark
12-16-2013, 01:10 PM
Either we have no talent and Gary did one hell of a job last year or we are a lot more talented than our record this year shows. Which is it?

Honoring Earl 34
12-16-2013, 02:15 PM
You and I agree. Bob McNair doesn't. I also think as long as Smith is GM the Texans will wallow in the mire. Smith when hired was the least experienced and least knowledgeable GM in the NFL. His training and schooling is limited to the Shanahan way of doing business. And I expect Lovie Smith to be HC because Lovie has shown he doesn't need to have control of the roster.

I think Bob isn't willing to eat that contract . I also think that if you show me an owner not willing to lose money on a mistake , I'll show you an owner who is ok with average .

Honoring Earl 34
12-16-2013, 02:17 PM
Either we have no talent and Gary did one hell of a job last year or we are a lot more talented than our record this year shows. Which is it?

I think on a scale of 1-10 , the Texans have 6.5 talent that plays as a 2 . That 2 is on par with the QB play .

2012Champs
12-16-2013, 03:02 PM
You need to add 1 great and 2-3 above avg players every yr. This is why I believe you do what you have to do to get 4 picks in the 1st 3 rds every yr. This means trading up most of the time, but sometimes trading down. You then take players with character flaws but talent in rds 5-7. Micheal Dyer/DaRick Rodgers/Burfict etc... Most of these guys will bust, but every 2-3 yrs you will get a 1st rd talent late in the draft. If you miss you really haven't lost anything.

For instance this yr to add 3 impact players you draft 1- at 1-1 then trade back up to late in the 1st to get another impact player. At 4-1 you should be able to get an OD type talent. Then draft troubled/injued but talented players after that.

This increases your odds of getting impact players. You dont draft Lazy/injured players in the 3rd/4th rd. Montgomery/B.Williams.

I've got liitle faith in Rick even considering a draft strategy like his. Let alone carrying out this draft strategy.




Sorry you cant get 1 great player and 2-3 above avg players every year. The math simply doesnt work either in cap room, number draft picks, draft success or number of players on a team. How many great and above avg players do you plan on losing every year to reach the "new" figures every year?

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 09:50 AM
Either we have no talent and Gary did one hell of a job last year or we are a lot more talented than our record this year shows. Which is it?

I thought Gary did a heck of a job last year & said so many times. That team was held together by bubble gum & masking tape. We shouldn't have won 12 games. We shouldn't have beat the Bengals in the play-offs. The Patriots & the Packers showed us who we were. The Broncos & Ravens games showed us our potential. Gary kept that team playing somewhere in the middle & won games in spite of it.

That said, I don't have a problem with the Kubiak firing. I started a thread a while back, about our Super Bowl window. How long could Gary continue to sell the same old message? I think that question was answered a lot earlier than I wanted to realize (Dec 2012).

I also wouldn't be surprised if Rick Smith is shown the door after the draft. Similarly to the way Casserly was excised.

My only real beef, is that he promoted Wade Phillips to interim head coach. After watching this defense for the last 13 games, there is no way that should have happened. Respect be damned. If he didn't like it, he could have walked with Gary.

Especially since he made the decision that Case will start the rest of the season. Winning is not a priority. I'd have promoted Dorrell to interim coach (if he likes Keenum so much) & see what he's made of.

Texans_Chick
12-17-2013, 02:31 PM
Given how the drafts are handled, it is hard to disentangle what is coaching, what is GMing.

I do not buy that this is a team that is chalk full of talent. I wouldn't want to be mandated to play a noob UDFA behind a inconsistent line, no healthy TEs/RBs.

Though the pick 6 fest was likely not predictable, the other roster composition/question mark issues were:

*right side of line
*RB health, and future of RB with Tate leaving
*Thin at TE for a team that uses 2 TE a lot, particularly with concerns on offensive line.
*a quarterback that had been in significant decline end of 2012, with no real plan of future replacement.
*hardly any NFL catches for any WRs not named Andre Johnson, and the route errors that come from that.
*no production from d linemen not named JJ Watt and Antonio Smith. Hoping to see something from Earl Mitchell that had never been seen from him.
*linebacker group was so thin, injured, inexperienced, that they tried out Brooks Reed at ILB during camp.
*safety. I don't want to even talk about it because it makes me stabby.
*corner. I don't crush JJo/KJ as much as some because they are asked to play man a ton without the pass rush, safeties that would help. But not their finest year, and all the other corners are a testament that you don't want Smith picking corners. (BTW, Frank Bush was a huge KJ supporter in that draft given his relationship with Saban).
*unproven kicker with no competition.
*little team speed in general, very little for special teams.

In an AFC that is wide open for those teams who didn't quit, Texans had a tough early schedule, had everything break bad, missed their high expectations and gave up the season by going all in on Keenum.

The case for Rick Smith is summed up by Jerome Solomon. The short version implies that McNair knows whose decisions were whose, and that Rick Smith wanted to (mortgage the cap) to get Peyton Manning, and coaches were um no.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/McNair-needs-to-be-more-hands-on-with-Texans-5045386.php

I've talked to NFL folks outside the Texans who knew the relative cap situations of Denver, Titans, Texans, 49ers, and believe that there was no way that the Texans could have realistically been in running for teh Peyton. That Texans being floated as a name was all about negotiation leverage.

But theoretically, the reason why Rick Smith stays is because of deals he didn't do. Because he was so damn ineffectual and non-persuasive at his job, he wants credit for alternative histories that did not happen. And take zero responsibility for stupid stuff like having a team full of needs but getting old, broken, forever rabble rousing Ed Reed as the big off-season acquisition without bringing Wade Phillips as part of the decision making process. (An adult supervision GM woulda gone nah).

But boy howdy, now he seems to be bucking for more power given unnamed "front office" rumors (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/report-texans-front-office-frustrated-with-coaching-staff/).

Oh goody! So we get to see what Rick Smith looks like when he gets the training wheels kicked off. Nothing. I mean nothing in his background makes you go, "Whew, it is a good thing Rick Smith is handling this draft."

The process is set up for failure. Who wants to work for a "front office" who complains to people in the media as their head coach is recovering from stroking out? Personally, I like the clean house model where you pick the GM, let the GM pick the coach. How is it that the Texans want an experienced HC, but don't impose that same criteria to Rick Smith?

Texans_Chick
12-17-2013, 02:33 PM
I also wouldn't be surprised if Rick Smith is shown the door after the draft. Similarly to the way Casserly was excised.



I'd be totally surprised. The McNair presser appeared to be a total vote of confidence. And national media types have been saying complementary things of the talent versus coaching. I don't know what they are looking at, but whatever.

Honoring Earl 34
12-17-2013, 02:38 PM
Given how the drafts are handled, it is hard to disentangle what is coaching, what is GMing.

I do not buy that this is a team that is chalk full of talent. I wouldn't want to be mandated to play a noob UDFA behind a inconsistent line, no healthy TEs/RBs.

Though the pick 6 fest was likely not predictable, the other roster composition/question mark issues were:

*right side of line
*RB health, and future of RB with Tate leaving
*Thin at TE for a team that uses 2 TE a lot, particularly with concerns on offensive line.
*a quarterback that had been in significant decline end of 2012, with no real plan of future replacement.
*hardly any NFL catches for any WRs not named Andre Johnson, and the route errors that come from that.
*no production from d linemen not named JJ Watt and Antonio Smith. Hoping to see something from Earl Mitchell that had never been seen from him.
*linebacker group was so thin, injured, inexperienced, that they tried out Brooks Reed at ILB during camp.
*safety. I don't want to even talk about it because it makes me stabby.
*corner. I don't crush JJo/KJ as much as some because they are asked to play man a ton without the pass rush, safeties that would help. But not their finest year, and all the other corners are a testament that you don't want Smith picking corners. (BTW, Frank Bush was a huge KJ supporter in that draft given his relationship with Saban).
*unproven kicker with no competition.
*little team speed in general, very little for special teams.

In an AFC that is wide open for those teams who didn't quit, Texans had a tough early schedule, had everything break bad, missed their high expectations and gave up the season by going all in on Keenum.

The case for Rick Smith is summed up by Jerome Solomon. The short version implies that McNair knows whose decisions were whose, and that Rick Smith wanted to (mortgage the cap) to get Peyton Manning, and coaches were um no.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/McNair-needs-to-be-more-hands-on-with-Texans-5045386.php

I've talked to NFL folks outside the Texans who knew the relative cap situations of Denver, Titans, Texans, 49ers, and believe that there was no way that the Texans could have realistically been in running for teh Peyton. That Texans being floated as a name was all about negotiation leverage.

But theoretically, the reason why Rick Smith stays is because of deals he didn't do. Because he was so damn ineffectual and non-persuasive at his job, he wants credit for alternative histories that did not happen. And take zero responsibility for stupid stuff like having a team full of needs but getting old, broken, forever rabble rousing Ed Reed as the big off-season acquisition without bringing Wade Phillips as part of the decision making process. (An adult supervision GM woulda gone nah).

But boy howdy, now he seems to be bucking for more power given unnamed "front office" rumors (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/report-texans-front-office-frustrated-with-coaching-staff/).

Oh goody! So we get to see what Rick Smith looks like when he gets the training wheels kicked off. Nothing. I mean nothing in his background makes you go, "Whew, it is a good thing Rick Smith is handling this draft."

The process is set up for failure. Who wants to work for a "front office" who complains to people in the media as their head coach is recovering from stroking out? Personally, I like the clean house model where you pick the GM, let the GM pick the coach. How is it that the Texans want an experienced HC, but don't impose that same criteria to Rick Smith?

Some of this can be blamed on the so called system . Running back by committee , small TEs , QB guru as a coach , and systems win games .

Part 2 is , who in this type of leadership position is a yes man ? It's your fault one way or the other .

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 03:49 PM
*safety. I don't want to even talk about it because it makes me stabby.



Calm down TC.... back away from the scissors. It's just entertainment... nothing to get all stabby about.

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 03:51 PM
Some of this can be blamed on the so called system . Running back by committee , small TEs , QB guru as a coach , and systems when games .


RBBC....

Are you serious?

Honoring Earl 34
12-17-2013, 03:54 PM
RBBC....

Are you serious?

They had Foster and drafted Tate in the 2nd round . Have they drafted one since ?

The Pencil Neck
12-17-2013, 04:01 PM
They had Foster and drafted Tate in the 2nd round . Have they drafted one since ?

How is that RBBC? Unless you mean something other than Running Back By Committee when you say RBBC?

Normally, in a RBBC system, you've got 3-5 guys all getting approximately the same number of carries. You don't have 1 guy who is THE guy.

In our situation, Arian Foster has been THE Guy ever since his second year. This year, Arian was the Guy until he went down and then Tate became The Guy and Kubiak stuck with him even when it looked like Johnson should have been The Guy.

Prior to Foster, Kubiak expected Lundy to be the Guy but Dayne ended up being The Guy for a couple of years. They brought Green in to be the Guy but never got started. Slaton took over The Guy spot for a couple of years but then Arian came along.

We haven't ever really been an RBBC type of team.

infantrycak
12-17-2013, 04:10 PM
Normally, in a RBBC system, you've got 3-5 guys all getting approximately the same number of carries. You don't have 1 guy who is THE guy.

We haven't ever really been an RBBC type of team.

Not sure where this mythology started even around the league as a whole. It is generally only found when a team doesn't have A guy - it's a reaction to circumstances rather than a design.

WRT to the Texans it is almost laughable paired with the allegations of over using Foster.

WolverineFan
12-17-2013, 04:19 PM
Running Back by committee would be like the Pats. They shuttle Ridley and Blount in and out of the backfield every game. They can't seem to decide on one and change up the rotation every week. Vereen plays RB and spends a lot of time in the slot. Bolden comes in and gets touches every game. They have 4 RB's who touch the ball a lot.

The Texans are the opposite. Foster has been the workhorse and Tate spells him from time to time. They don't split time. When Foster went down, Tate became the workhorse. Johnson spells him from time to time.

Go look at the numbers last year when Foster was healthy.

2012 - Foster 351 carries, Tate 65, Forsett 63

That's not a committee.

Honoring Earl 34
12-17-2013, 04:25 PM
How is that RBBC? Unless you mean something other than Running Back By Committee when you say RBBC?

Normally, in a RBBC system, you've got 3-5 guys all getting approximately the same number of carries. You don't have 1 guy who is THE guy.

In our situation, Arian Foster has been THE Guy ever since his second year. This year, Arian was the Guy until he went down and then Tate became The Guy and Kubiak stuck with him even when it looked like Johnson should have been The Guy.

Prior to Foster, Kubiak expected Lundy to be the Guy but Dayne ended up being The Guy for a couple of years. They brought Green in to be the Guy but never got started. Slaton took over The Guy spot for a couple of years but then Arian came along.

We haven't ever really been an RBBC type of team.

Not sure where this mythology started even around the league as a whole. It is generally only found when a team doesn't have A guy - it's a reaction to circumstances rather than a design.

WRT to the Texans it is almost laughable paired with the allegations of over using Foster.

I guess my point was it was supposed to be RBBC . When they gave Foster the farm , it upset the pay scale . That's not how the Kubiak scheme was supposed to go . You pay a RB and a QB , you cut elsewhere .

The Pencil Neck
12-17-2013, 04:31 PM
I guess my point was it was supposed to be RBBC . When they gave Foster the farm , it upset the pay scale . That's not how the Kubiak scheme was supposed to go . You pay a RB and a QB , you cut elsewhere .

Ah.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that, either. But I see your point.

You're saying that in a Shanahan/Kubiak system, we're supposed to be finding cheap RBs later in the draft and letting them go when they get too costly. So we should have let Foster walk instead of giving him a lot of money to keep him.

Texian
12-17-2013, 04:48 PM
Given how the drafts are handled, it is hard to disentangle what is coaching, what is GMing.

I do not buy that this is a team that is chalk full of talent. I wouldn't want to be mandated to play a noob UDFA behind a inconsistent line, no healthy TEs/RBs.

Though the pick 6 fest was likely not predictable, the other roster composition/question mark issues were:

*right side of line
*RB health, and future of RB with Tate leaving
*Thin at TE for a team that uses 2 TE a lot, particularly with concerns on offensive line.
*a quarterback that had been in significant decline end of 2012, with no real plan of future replacement.
*hardly any NFL catches for any WRs not named Andre Johnson, and the route errors that come from that.
*no production from d linemen not named JJ Watt and Antonio Smith. Hoping to see something from Earl Mitchell that had never been seen from him.
*linebacker group was so thin, injured, inexperienced, that they tried out Brooks Reed at ILB during camp.
*safety. I don't want to even talk about it because it makes me stabby.
*corner. I don't crush JJo/KJ as much as some because they are asked to play man a ton without the pass rush, safeties that would help. But not their finest year, and all the other corners are a testament that you don't want Smith picking corners. (BTW, Frank Bush was a huge KJ supporter in that draft given his relationship with Saban).
*unproven kicker with no competition.
*little team speed in general, very little for special teams.

In an AFC that is wide open for those teams who didn't quit, Texans had a tough early schedule, had everything break bad, missed their high expectations and gave up the season by going all in on Keenum.

The case for Rick Smith is summed up by Jerome Solomon. The short version implies that McNair knows whose decisions were whose, and that Rick Smith wanted to (mortgage the cap) to get Peyton Manning, and coaches were um no.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/McNair-needs-to-be-more-hands-on-with-Texans-5045386.php

I've talked to NFL folks outside the Texans who knew the relative cap situations of Denver, Titans, Texans, 49ers, and believe that there was no way that the Texans could have realistically been in running for teh Peyton. That Texans being floated as a name was all about negotiation leverage.

But theoretically, the reason why Rick Smith stays is because of deals he didn't do. Because he was so damn ineffectual and non-persuasive at his job, he wants credit for alternative histories that did not happen. And take zero responsibility for stupid stuff like having a team full of needs but getting old, broken, forever rabble rousing Ed Reed as the big off-season acquisition without bringing Wade Phillips as part of the decision making process. (An adult supervision GM woulda gone nah).

But boy howdy, now he seems to be bucking for more power given unnamed "front office" rumors (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/report-texans-front-office-frustrated-with-coaching-staff/).

Oh goody! So we get to see what Rick Smith looks like when he gets the training wheels kicked off. Nothing. I mean nothing in his background makes you go, "Whew, it is a good thing Rick Smith is handling this draft."

The process is set up for failure. Who wants to work for a "front office" who complains to people in the media as their head coach is recovering from stroking out? Personally, I like the clean house model where you pick the GM, let the GM pick the coach. How is it that the Texans want an experienced HC, but don't impose that same criteria to Rick Smith?

This about sums it up. I would add that when hired Smith was ass't GM who was least knowledgeable, least experienced GM in the league. Smith has only been trained in the Mike Shanahan way of doing business. McNair is ignoring the Commitment to Excellence, the part of bringing in the Best and Brightest. Smith is left over good old boy business plan. Smith does curry favor with NFLN and SI Peter King. Both are effusive in their praise of Smith and protect their source with a lot of media hype. Some of it were the talking points at McNair's last PC. Other teams in division have $30-40 mil in salary cap while Texans virtually have none. Until the Texans can become competitive in the salary cap arena the cellar will be home. Being salary cap competitive is not in the Rick Smith playbook.

Honoring Earl 34
12-17-2013, 04:48 PM
Ah.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that, either. But I see your point.

You're saying that in a Shanahan/Kubiak system, we're supposed to be finding cheap RBs later in the draft and letting them go when they get too costly. So we should have let Foster walk instead of giving him a lot of money to keep him.

Something to look at , just found it .

http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/sports/nfl/2013/09/13/2013-nfl-salary-cap-breakdown-by-team/2808245/

houstonspartan
12-17-2013, 05:18 PM
Given how the drafts are handled, it is hard to disentangle what is coaching, what is GMing.

I do not buy that this is a team that is chalk full of talent. I wouldn't want to be mandated to play a noob UDFA behind a inconsistent line, no healthy TEs/RBs.

Though the pick 6 fest was likely not predictable, the other roster composition/question mark issues were:

*right side of line
*RB health, and future of RB with Tate leaving
*Thin at TE for a team that uses 2 TE a lot, particularly with concerns on offensive line.
*a quarterback that had been in significant decline end of 2012, with no real plan of future replacement.
*hardly any NFL catches for any WRs not named Andre Johnson, and the route errors that come from that.
*no production from d linemen not named JJ Watt and Antonio Smith. Hoping to see something from Earl Mitchell that had never been seen from him.
*linebacker group was so thin, injured, inexperienced, that they tried out Brooks Reed at ILB during camp.
*safety. I don't want to even talk about it because it makes me stabby.
*corner. I don't crush JJo/KJ as much as some because they are asked to play man a ton without the pass rush, safeties that would help. But not their finest year, and all the other corners are a testament that you don't want Smith picking corners. (BTW, Frank Bush was a huge KJ supporter in that draft given his relationship with Saban).
*unproven kicker with no competition.
*little team speed in general, very little for special teams.

In an AFC that is wide open for those teams who didn't quit, Texans had a tough early schedule, had everything break bad, missed their high expectations and gave up the season by going all in on Keenum.

The case for Rick Smith is summed up by Jerome Solomon. The short version implies that McNair knows whose decisions were whose, and that Rick Smith wanted to (mortgage the cap) to get Peyton Manning, and coaches were um no.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/McNair-needs-to-be-more-hands-on-with-Texans-5045386.php

I've talked to NFL folks outside the Texans who knew the relative cap situations of Denver, Titans, Texans, 49ers, and believe that there was no way that the Texans could have realistically been in running for teh Peyton. That Texans being floated as a name was all about negotiation leverage.

But theoretically, the reason why Rick Smith stays is because of deals he didn't do. Because he was so damn ineffectual and non-persuasive at his job, he wants credit for alternative histories that did not happen. And take zero responsibility for stupid stuff like having a team full of needs but getting old, broken, forever rabble rousing Ed Reed as the big off-season acquisition without bringing Wade Phillips as part of the decision making process. (An adult supervision GM woulda gone nah).

But boy howdy, now he seems to be bucking for more power given unnamed "front office" rumors (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/report-texans-front-office-frustrated-with-coaching-staff/).

Oh goody! So we get to see what Rick Smith looks like when he gets the training wheels kicked off. Nothing. I mean nothing in his background makes you go, "Whew, it is a good thing Rick Smith is handling this draft."

The process is set up for failure. Who wants to work for a "front office" who complains to people in the media as their head coach is recovering from stroking out? Personally, I like the clean house model where you pick the GM, let the GM pick the coach. How is it that the Texans want an experienced HC, but don't impose that same criteria to Rick Smith?

Your hatred of Rick Smith is a little intense and disturbing. You take his actions far too personally. You may want to consider not renewing your season tickets. I think going to Reliant might be a bit much for you. I'm serious.

And, just for the record: While I think most of this team's problems has been coaching, Rick Smith should also be held accountable for a chunk of this mess. He is in no way blameless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

infantrycak
12-17-2013, 06:10 PM
I guess my point was it was supposed to be RBBC . When they gave Foster the farm , it upset the pay scale . That's not how the Kubiak scheme was supposed to go . You pay a RB and a QB , you cut elsewhere .

Ah.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that, either. But I see your point.

You're saying that in a Shanahan/Kubiak system, we're supposed to be finding cheap RBs later in the draft and letting them go when they get too costly. So we should have let Foster walk instead of giving him a lot of money to keep him.

The Shanahan/Kubiak scheme is acquiring RBs cheaply in terms of draft picks, roll through them until getting a hit and then ride that back out including giving them a contract or valuing them very highly.

Terrell Davis - given a big contract way before necessary in his 2nd season of his rookie contract.
Portis - traded for a top 3 CB plus the 2nd round pick spent to get him.
Foster - gave him his market value.
Morris - again not sharing the load 335 att. next most 23 att. in his rookie year ending 2nd in yds to AP and 2nd in TDs to Foster - you can guarantee the Skins will pay him.

Who are the good RBs they have let go to avoid paying?

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 06:22 PM
Running Back by committee would be like the Pats. They shuttle Ridley and Blount in and out of the backfield every game. They can't seem to decide on one and change up the rotation every week. Vereen plays RB and spends a lot of time in the slot. Bolden comes in and gets touches every game. They have 4 RB's who touch the ball a lot.


Close. They've got two guys they think can be THE guy, but they continue to disappoint. Neither is particularly good at any one thing, but they're fairly good at everything.

New Orleans has a RBBC. They've got their usual guy, the third down guy, the goal line guy, the change of pace guy, the pass pro guy, & the guy who's going to take a lick.

Arian is THE guy. Whatever the situation calls for, he's the best we've got & one of the best in the league. If he were healthy, Kubiak would have run him in the dirt, to try to protect Case. Ben Tate isn't that guy & never was. He was the dog-house, but I ain't got anyone better guy.

I guess my point was it was supposed to be RBBC . When they gave Foster the farm , it upset the pay scale . That's not how the Kubiak scheme was supposed to go . You pay a RB and a QB , you cut elsewhere .

I don't get that either. In Denver, they always had THE guy until they didn't. Clinton Portis was traded for Champ Bailey because they kept striking out finding their own. Mike Anderson was hurt all the time & they had nothing but fodder. Orlandis Gary priced himself out of a good career with Denver, because he wasn't as good as he thought he was. They're not going to pay a guy because he broke 1000 yards one year. (More than likely I've got Anderson & Gary mixed up).

But Denver was more or less always looking for the guy after TD. Had they not traded Clinton Portis, he'd have been THE guy. Had the other guy not got the big head, he'd have been THE guy because he was good enough, not "special" like TD, Portis, or Foster.

You put a "special" guy in this "simple" system & you've got a Super Bowl contender.

Ben Tate's got some ability & he may very well be "special" but can't read the blocks & adjust on the fly like Arian can.

Honoring Earl 34
12-17-2013, 06:36 PM
The Shanahan/Kubiak scheme is acquiring RBs cheaply in terms of draft picks, roll through them until getting a hit and then ride that back out including giving them a contract or valuing them very highly.

Terrell Davis - given a big contract way before necessary in his 2nd season of his rookie contract.
Portis - traded for a top 3 CB plus the 2nd round pick spent to get him.
Foster - gave him his market value.
Morris - again not sharing the load 335 att. next most 23 att. in his rookie year ending 2nd in yds to AP and 2nd in TDs to Foster - you can guarantee the Skins will pay him.

Who are the good RBs they have let go to avoid paying?

Portis was the only high pick , same round as Tate . I think the Texans would have let Foster walk if they thought they thought the fans wouldn't blow up .

The point is they believe the system makes the player . TD was a late pick , Morris a late pick , Foster UFA , WR Rod Smith UFA , Shannon Sharpe 6th , MCaffery in a trade , and Walter for a 6th . The OL and DL had some high picks .

That was before hard caps and rule changes . Ground and pound is gone the way of the dodo bird .

infantrycak
12-17-2013, 06:42 PM
Portis was the only high pick , same round as Tate . I think the Texans would have let Foster walk if they thought they thought the fans wouldn't blow up .

The point is they believe the system makes the player . TD was a late pick , Morris a late pick , Foster UFA , WR Rod Smith UFA , Shannon Sharpe 6th , MCaffery in a trade , and Walter for a 6th . The OL and DL had some high picks .

That was before hard caps and rule changes . Ground and pound is gone the way of the dodo bird .

The point keeps shifting.

They do not believe the system makes the player. They run quite a few RBs through until they find the one who fits to exploit the system. The fact a team has had success with lower round picks doesn't mean they think all the players are fungible.

It is ludicrous to think they would have let Foster go but for fan reaction Name the RBs they have let go who were league leaders over money? For that matter, name when ANY team does that?

Honoring Earl 34
12-17-2013, 06:48 PM
The point keeps shifting.

They do not believe the system makes the player. They run quite a few RBs through until they find the one who fits to exploit the system. The fact a team has had success with lower round picks doesn't mean they think all the players are fungible.

It is ludicrous to think they would have let Foster go but for fan reaction Name the RBs they have let go who were league leaders over money? For that matter, name when ANY team does that?

I know he was longer into his career but the Texans got Ahmad Green and he was already done . Roger Craig left the 9ers , Eric Dickerson was traded , players leave .

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7429732/chris-brown-gary-kubiak-houston-texans-running-game

infantrycak
12-17-2013, 06:59 PM
I know he was longer into his career but the Texans got Ahmad Green and he was already done . Roger Craig left the 9ers , Eric Dickerson was traded , players leave .

I guess I was unclear - let players get away when they are league leaders not let players who had once been league leaders get away.

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 07:08 PM
I guess I was unclear - let players get away when they are league leaders not let players who had once been league leaders get away.

I think you were on point when you said the point keeps shifting.

dalemurphy
12-17-2013, 07:10 PM
Given how the drafts are handled, it is hard to disentangle what is coaching, what is GMing.

I do not buy that this is a team that is chalk full of talent. I wouldn't want to be mandated to play a noob UDFA behind a inconsistent line, no healthy TEs/RBs.

Though the pick 6 fest was likely not predictable, the other roster composition/question mark issues were:

*right side of line
*RB health, and future of RB with Tate leaving
*Thin at TE for a team that uses 2 TE a lot, particularly with concerns on offensive line.
*a quarterback that had been in significant decline end of 2012, with no real plan of future replacement.
*hardly any NFL catches for any WRs not named Andre Johnson, and the route errors that come from that.
*no production from d linemen not named JJ Watt and Antonio Smith. Hoping to see something from Earl Mitchell that had never been seen from him.
*linebacker group was so thin, injured, inexperienced, that they tried out Brooks Reed at ILB during camp.
*safety. I don't want to even talk about it because it makes me stabby.
*corner. I don't crush JJo/KJ as much as some because they are asked to play man a ton without the pass rush, safeties that would help. But not their finest year, and all the other corners are a testament that you don't want Smith picking corners. (BTW, Frank Bush was a huge KJ supporter in that draft given his relationship with Saban).
*unproven kicker with no competition.
*little team speed in general, very little for special teams.

In an AFC that is wide open for those teams who didn't quit, Texans had a tough early schedule, had everything break bad, missed their high expectations and gave up the season by going all in on Keenum.

The case for Rick Smith is summed up by Jerome Solomon. The short version implies that McNair knows whose decisions were whose, and that Rick Smith wanted to (mortgage the cap) to get Peyton Manning, and coaches were um no.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/McNair-needs-to-be-more-hands-on-with-Texans-5045386.php

I've talked to NFL folks outside the Texans who knew the relative cap situations of Denver, Titans, Texans, 49ers, and believe that there was no way that the Texans could have realistically been in running for teh Peyton. That Texans being floated as a name was all about negotiation leverage.

But theoretically, the reason why Rick Smith stays is because of deals he didn't do. Because he was so damn ineffectual and non-persuasive at his job, he wants credit for alternative histories that did not happen. And take zero responsibility for stupid stuff like having a team full of needs but getting old, broken, forever rabble rousing Ed Reed as the big off-season acquisition without bringing Wade Phillips as part of the decision making process. (An adult supervision GM woulda gone nah).

But boy howdy, now he seems to be bucking for more power given unnamed "front office" rumors (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/report-texans-front-office-frustrated-with-coaching-staff/).

Oh goody! So we get to see what Rick Smith looks like when he gets the training wheels kicked off. Nothing. I mean nothing in his background makes you go, "Whew, it is a good thing Rick Smith is handling this draft."

The process is set up for failure. Who wants to work for a "front office" who complains to people in the media as their head coach is recovering from stroking out? Personally, I like the clean house model where you pick the GM, let the GM pick the coach. How is it that the Texans want an experienced HC, but don't impose that same criteria to Rick Smith?


I don't know of another NFL franchise more tight lipped than the Texans. This organization has had very few leaks, leaving those of us very focused on following them to make another of guesses and assumptions based on very, very little information. All that is to say that I doubt outsiders considering working for the Texans will avoid the situation because it appears more dysfunctional than most- Well, usually when a coach has quit or been fired there is some dysfunction that is evident.. but those are the only opportunities available in the NFL... Consider other NFL jobs likely to be available and how those organizations would appear regarding issues like integrity: Washington Redskins (umm, no), Dallas Cowboys (umm, no), Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders?, NYJets... not exactly the picture of healthy and happy workplaces.

Also, I think it is important to consider Rick Smith's situation. His role, certainly until 2011, was designed so that his only recourse to protect himself and aid the organization when he saw errant decisions being made would be to say, "Bob, this is an issue. I think we need to do "A" and Gary is going to do "B"... As a Kubiak supporter, I can forgive Rick for that "betrayal". As a Texan fan, I'm thankful for it and for the role that played (I believe) in arresting control of the defense from Kubiak so we could get a competent defensive coordinator in Houston.

All in all, I'm not sold of Rick Smith but am hopeful and interested to see how the organization looks with his leadership. I have significant trust in his ability to acquire and assess personnel and ability to make the tough decision... I do worry about his ability to lead- hire and articulate direction and a vision to coaches... We will see.

Honoring Earl 34
12-17-2013, 07:11 PM
I guess I was unclear - let players get away when they are league leaders not let players who had once been league leaders get away.


They did a bunch of wheeling and dealing in 2012 . The kept Foster and lost Mario , Demeco , Eric Winston , Dreesen , and Briesel .

steelbtexan
12-17-2013, 07:21 PM
Sorry you cant get 1 great player and 2-3 above avg players every year. The math simply doesnt work either in cap room, number draft picks, draft success or number of players on a team. How many great and above avg players do you plan on losing every year to reach the "new" figures every year?

See that's where I think you're wrong. Take this yr for instance. You could draft Clowney (Potentially great) Mettenberger (Has as much potential as any QB in this draft. (Morgan Moses Solid OT on a bad team) then trade up into the 3rd rd and draft a solid LB like Skov that's 4 solid day 1 starters. Then in rds Comp pick 5-7 you start drafting guys like Exum (Coming off injury) or Dyer/Crowell who proved they can be good on the major college level. But like to smoke weed. If they bust you really haven't lost anything. That's 4-6 players that can be added in this yrs draft that should help rebuild the foundation of this franchise.

In a regular draft you should be able to draft atleast 1 stud in the 1st rd and if you wanted to trade up using lower rd picks say like a 2-3/5th for instance you should be able to add 2 first rd picks that can cntribute immediately. In addition to adding the injured/troubled guys in rd.4-6-7. If 1 of these guys work out you get a 1-2nd rd talent in the 5th/6th rd. If they start smoking pot again what have you really lost a late rd draft pick. This way you get your 3 big time contributors. This is just one example of how to add guys. The Seahawks built there entire secondar minus Earl Thomas using this theory. Same with the 49ers.

BoB/Rick/Charley/Gary make this stuff sound like brain surgery. It's not, you just have to do your homework and be willing to take risks on talented/injured players with Character flaws in the late rds. Teams that win do this regularly, and until the Texans get in the game they will continue to be a hit or miss winning team and never a true SB contender. IMHO

How many impact players did the Texans lose this offseason? 2-3? Quin/Cody/Barwin/Walter/Casey? Who else did they lose that you would say was a true impact player? They had 4 picks in the 1st 3 rds to replace these guys. If your going to be a pay your guys a kings ransom (BoB/Rick/Gary's choice) your going to lose guys. That's the way the system is set up. How do you replace them? By doing the hard work and hitting on 3-4 guys a yr.

The Texans haven't done this and are currently sitting at 2-14 for this reason. Of course with BoB there's very little accountability or the Texans wouldn't have Rick still as their GM or be in the current cap hell they are in because Rick misread the tea leaves when it came to the level of salary cap increases before the CBA was signed. Good GM's did well with this, unfortunately Rick is not a good GM.

paycheck71
12-17-2013, 07:33 PM
I maintain my stance that the Texans cap situation isn't nearly as bad as many of you are convinced it is.

Not sure that this is going to change anyone's mind, but here's a chance for everyone to play Texans GM and manage the cap with this little cap management tool toy. It's also helpful to look at other teams' cap, since the Texans cap doesn't exist in a vacuum; it exists in competition with 31 other teams.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans

steelbtexan
12-17-2013, 07:41 PM
They did a bunch of wheeling and dealing in 2012 . The kept Foster and lost Mario , Demeco , Eric Winston , Dreesen , and Briesel .

These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO

Honoring Earl 34
12-17-2013, 07:47 PM
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO

I forgot about Schaub .

I do remember CnD saying that Schaub would have a hard time .

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 08:39 PM
I maintain my stance that the Texans cap situation isn't nearly as bad as many of you are convinced it is.

Not sure that this is going to change anyone's mind, but here's a chance for everyone to play Texans GM and manage the cap with this little cap management tool toy. It's also helpful to look at other teams' cap, since the Texans cap doesn't exist in a vacuum; it exists in competition with 31 other teams.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans

I don't know how to make Schaub a June 1st cut. But as is, I can cut him, Jjo, Manning, OD, McCain, Jamison, Newton, Keo, Bullock, Bouye, Tuggle, Starling, Kupper, Keenum, & Lemon & we've got $32M to work with.

I wouldn't necessarily cut Jjo, I'd rather renegotiate & make Schaub a June 1st cut....... then we'll end up with about the same $32M.

I'd make Antonio, Joe Mays, Greg Jones, & Garrett Graham offers to stay, negotiating their contracts & bonuses to cost $8-$10 million against the 2014 cap. I'd commit to each one of those guys for two years, Graham as much as 4.

That would leave me about $20M to find an ILB, outside pass rusher, safety, & a vet QB.

In the draft, I'm looking for a RT, QB, & outside pass rusher on the first day (first three rounds, I don't remember if 3rd round is on the first day or not). Second day I'm looking for OL, safeties, & LBs. Any potential solid player will do, but I'm especially looking for those positions.

Oh yeah.... TEs too.

thunderkyss
12-17-2013, 08:59 PM
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO


2012 was different & we didn't have the same options to free up money as we do this year. I was never a Winston fan, but I'm pretty sure Kubiak was. He'd have kept Winston if at all possible. At the very least, they expected the cap to stay the same as it was before the lock-out. Then it wouldn't have been so bad. But the cap went down, they weren't expecting that & cutting Winston was the proof.

& though the end result was the same, Schaub's issues were not related to his LisFranc. Schaub's problem, I think, was that he was told that he has to make plays, make things happen. He started double thinking himself, telegraphing his passes, & missing his reads.

I'm not a big fan of Matt Schaub, but he's not the scrub he's being made out to be. Had he not gotten hurt in St Louis, we could possibly be fighting for an outside chance at a play-off berth, like San Diego, Detroit & Dallas. We'd definitely need help, but we wouldn't be preparing for the draft.

I liked the contract at the time. It gave Schaub 2 seasons to prove he deserved Romo money. He got starter money. Though he was not a Super Bowl QB, he was definitely a starter.

steelbtexan
12-17-2013, 09:15 PM
I don't know how to make Schaub a June 1st cut. But as is, I can cut him, Jjo, Manning, OD, McCain, Jamison, Newton, Keo, Bullock, Bouye, Tuggle, Starling, Kupper, Keenum, & Lemon & we've got $32M to work with.

I wouldn't necessarily cut Jjo, I'd rather renegotiate & make Schaub a June 1st cut....... then we'll end up with about the same $32M.

I'd make Antonio, Joe Mays, Greg Jones, & Garrett Graham offers to stay, negotiating their contracts & bonuses to cost $8-$10 million against the 2014 cap. I'd commit to each one of those guys for two years, Graham as much as 4.

That would leave me about $20M to find an ILB, outside pass rusher, safety, & a vet QB.

In the draft, I'm looking for a RT, QB, & outside pass rusher on the first day (first three rounds, I don't remember if 3rd round is on the first day or not). Second day I'm looking for OL, safeties, & LBs. Any potential solid player will do, but I'm especially looking for those positions.

Oh yeah.... TEs too.

Sounds like a great plan to me. I doubt Rick will will have the foresight to see a plan like this thru. I wonder how much of a cut JoJo/Antonio will be willing to take. I think JoJo is due 11 mil next yr and Antonio 9 mil. I would be willing to split 11 mil between them and if they dont take it let them move on and move forward with the rebuilding project.

paycheck71
12-17-2013, 09:16 PM
I don't know how to make Schaub a June 1st cut.



That option should be in the list of available transactions. Moves $7MM of the cap hit from 2014 to 2015. So, now you'd have $39MM next year.

Double Barrel
12-17-2013, 09:30 PM
This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.

steelbtexan
12-17-2013, 09:43 PM
This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.

Rick Smith the Godfather, somehow with the way the Texans org is run this seems appropriate. The fans of this team are screwed. Hope I'm wrong.

thunderkyss
12-18-2013, 10:03 AM
I think JoJo is due 11 mil next yr and Antonio 9 mil.

Antonio is a free agent next year. There is nothing in our cap allotted for him.

That option should be in the list of available transactions. Moves $7MM of the cap hit from 2014 to 2015. So, now you'd have $39MM next year.



Right, I just used cutting Jjo as a way to get the $7M for moving Schaub to a June 1st cut. Moving Schaub to a June 1st, I wouldn't cut Jjo, instead I'd renegotiate, thinking the net sum would be $32. For me, it's a one or the other thing.

Vinny
12-21-2013, 03:19 PM
This might be the most depressing football-related thread that I have ever read in 9 years of this forum.

I deeply appreciate the objectivity in it from all angles, too. I gives a big picture look at the mentality and perspectives of the true Texans fans, the faithful through a 12 game losing streak. It's a collective that certainly provides a variety of perceptions, but one thing seems to be a common thread through just about every take: this team feels like it has some fundamental flaw(s) in its foundation.

And there is also sort of a melancholy resignation about all of it, too. The drop from 12-4 to 2-12 will do that to a fan base.

As far a Rick Smith goes, I have a feeling that he's going to be here awhile. He is family to McNair. Godfather to Bob's grandchild. That is a bond there that goes beyond just a professional relationship. That is a deeply personal situation and one that I think allows Smith to be given every chance beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's a process that could take a very long time to final resolution.

Maybe I'm wrong. But he gave Kubiak 8 years, and probably would have kept him this season if it was not such an obvious dismal failure. I have no doubt that Rick Smith gets that same loyalty, and then some.

I just hope he's worth it.
Supposedly Rick Smith was jobbing Kubiak behind his back to save his own skin. Nice gesture from Smith who wouldn't be here without Kubiak. Who would want to work for this kind of a guy? I think its a huge mistake not cleaning house.

Texecutioner
12-21-2013, 04:59 PM
Supposedly Rick Smith was jobbing Kubiak behind his back to save his own skin. Nice gesture from Smith who wouldn't be here without Kubiak. Who would want to work for this kind of a guy? I think its a huge mistake not cleaning house.

Yes, but as you know most people in this fan base would rather ignore things like this until it's so glaringly obvious that it's effected the team drastically. I think Smith has done a nice job in first round picks, but a lot of those picks have had a lot to do with who Wade told him to pick and Kubiak in that regard. I really have no idea why Smith collects a pay check, but I think he cozied up so well to Bob Mcnair that he has become like family to him. It feels like anyone can get really close to Bob and earn his unconditional trust.

gafftop
12-21-2013, 07:17 PM
Just my opinion of Rick Smith based on situation the Texans are in presently.
The GM has to be concerned with the long term view of the team. Rick has been year to year worried about saving his job. He should have traded Tate this year when we might have got a 1st round draft choice for him just to point out most recent example.

See Morey for Rockets he built up talent and used them as chips to continuously make the Rockets a force. Smith just rents his players or overpays for others. (See Reed, Schaub, and others)

I can hear it now " Rick Smith just can't improve this team because of the cap."
Guess what Smith is the reason the Texans are in this situation.

McNair thinks this team is much more talented than it really is. That is the main reason I guess McNair hasn't gotten rid of Smith. Seriously Smith is the person in the brain trust with the most football knowledge on this organization? We are still drowning then.

See his resume and highlights
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/st...3-5f875710e9b2

Schaub, Yates, Brooks Reed, Mercilus, trading DeMeco, KJ, and Crick are mentioned as a few of his GREAT moves. SERIOUSLY!!!!?????

I am still pissed because I see at BEST intermittent success for this franchise.

Kind of like "Even a blind hog finds an acorn" I think sums up our time with Smith in charge.

Also don't like snakes. The right thing was for Smith to fall on the sword also instead of using it to stab Kubiak.

Tired of the excuse that maybe he didn't make the decisions. His role should have been to make the decisions. If he didn't make the decisions then what did he do, and why all of the sudden is he going to be qualified now to make decisions. If he did make the decisions then they were bad. Either way for his tenure here he has done nothing but make friends with McNair.

Just my opinion. I hope I am wrong.

TheIronDuke
12-21-2013, 07:31 PM
Nobody would have traded a first for Tate, maybe you could have gotten a 4th at best.

gafftop
12-21-2013, 07:50 PM
Nobody would have traded a first for Tate, maybe you could have gotten a 4th at best.

You may be right. What did the Colts give up for Trent?

TheIronDuke
12-21-2013, 09:02 PM
You may be right. What did the Colts give up for Trent?

A first but Tate was in his last year of his contract and TR was a high first round pick just a year prior. Comparing the two is moronic.

gafftop
12-21-2013, 09:19 PM
A first but Tate was in his last year of his contract and TR was a high first round pick just a year prior. Comparing the two is moronic.

So now we have nothing for Tate except the compensation pick.
I guess we just disagree on Rick Smith. Hope you are right about him.

TheIronDuke
12-21-2013, 09:22 PM
So now we have nothing for Tate except the compensation pick.
I guess we just disagree on Rick Smith. Hope you are right about him.

Dude, I can't stand Smith, if you read at the beginning and all through this thread you'd see that. I think he's terrible at drafting outside the first round and want him gone more than I want Wade out. I just don't think we'd have been able to get anything for Tate, certainly not a first.

Also, want to apologize for calling the comparison moronic, having a bad day.

infantrycak
12-21-2013, 11:52 PM
So now we have nothing for Tate except the compensation pick.
I guess we just disagree on Rick Smith. Hope you are right about him.

You have unrealistic expectations for trades. This is not basketball. There are not that many trades in the NFL.

Here is a list for this season - Link (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/transactions/trades)

Only four are identified as involving picks in the 3rd or higher - Trent Richardson, Alex Smith, Darelle Revis and Percy Harvin.

Marshall
12-22-2013, 06:34 AM
These kinds of decisions (hard decisions along with extending Schaub ) are what lead to Gary's downfall. Too much loyalty which I'm sure Rick was also involved in doomed Gary.

BTW, Gary did an outstanding job coaching last yr. Consider he was working with most of the same OL as last yrs OL. The difference is Schaub fell off of a cliff one yr after signing a big extention. But the truth is Rick/Gary should've known not to re-up Schaub. One of our own C-N-D warned us at the time that this was going to be Schaub's fate and some didn't want to listen.

I wonder if BoB/Rick/Gary consulted the Texans team orthopods before signing Schaub to that big extention? If they did and the Texans team Doc's signed off on that extention then they should be fired at the end of the yr too. IMHO

I was wondering why you were calling for consultation with team bugs, but I looked it up and bugs are Arthropods, not Orthopods. My memory is going.

Marshall
12-22-2013, 06:43 AM
That option should be in the list of available transactions. Moves $7MM of the cap hit from 2014 to 2015. So, now you'd have $39MM next year.

This kind of thinking is what got us in cap trouble in the first place. Take the entire hit in 2014 so the cap space is available to reup Watt in 2015. You have to plan ahead. The alternative is to sign Watt before deadline and shift most of his salary in 2015 to bonus money.

Marshall
12-22-2013, 06:57 AM
A first but Tate was in his last year of his contract and TR was a high first round pick just a year prior. Comparing the two is moronic.

Just because ???? made a stupid mistake in the first place and Indianapolis made a mistake by taking them off the hook doesn't mean we could have found someone equally stupid to trade with.

TheIronDuke
12-22-2013, 11:03 AM
Just because ???? made a stupid mistake in the first place and Indianapolis made a mistake by taking them off the hook doesn't mean we could have found someone equally stupid to trade with.

He was in the last year of his contract, that alone means nobody is giving a first. I can't believe anyone could argue otherwise.

tedr
12-22-2013, 04:48 PM
Don't know how anyone can still say Smith should have a job.

The Pencil Neck
12-22-2013, 08:40 PM
rick smith is the new marciano.

pencil him in for another decade until Mcnair fires him.

Just so you know, you "pencil" someone in if you expect them to be fired at any moment or if you expect them not to show. You "pencil" them in because you can erase it. If you write them in ink, then you're saying they're permanent because they can't be erased.

By penciling Smith in for a decade, you're saying he could be let go tomorrow... which... Is not what you're trying to say.

Vinny
12-22-2013, 11:37 PM
Just so you know, you "pencil" someone in if you expect them to be fired at any moment or if you expect them not to show. You "pencil" them in because you can erase it. If you write them in ink, then you're saying they're permanent because they can't be erased.

By penciling Smith in for a decade, you're saying he could be let go tomorrow... which... Is not what you're trying to say.
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the use of the word 'pencil' executed flawlessly 3 times (and 2x in quotations) in that last post by "The Pencil Neck".


It's gonna be a long offseason for me.

PapaL
12-22-2013, 11:51 PM
Just so you know, you "pencil" someone in if you expect them to be fired at any moment or if you expect them not to show. You "pencil" them in because you can erase it. If you write them in ink, then you're saying they're permanent because they can't be erased.

By penciling Smith in for a decade, you're saying he could be let go tomorrow... which... Is not what you're trying to say.

Shhhh...he's smarter, more handsome, and more successful than any of us will ever be. He can't be wrong.

steelbtexan
12-23-2013, 12:35 AM
Just so you know, you "pencil" someone in if you expect them to be fired at any moment or if you expect them not to show. You "pencil" them in because you can erase it. If you write them in ink, then you're saying they're permanent because they can't be erased.

By penciling Smith in for a decade, you're saying he could be let go tomorrow... which... Is not what you're trying to say.

Indelible ink.

Rick took the a** kissing so far that he's BoB's grandsons godfather.

That takes some seroius a** kissing over a number of yrs. Unless I'm wrong Texans fans should expect a decade or more of misery. Cal isn't going to fire his sons Godfather even after BoB is dead and gone.

Great things in the future? 2-14

Hervoyel
12-23-2013, 01:03 AM
.....It's gonna be a long offseason for me.

As it will be for all of us. It's just the Texan Way.

houstonspartan
12-23-2013, 01:09 AM
Indelible ink.

Rick took the a** kissing so far that he's BoB's grandsons godfather.

That takes some seroius a** kissing over a number of yrs. Unless I'm wrong Texans fans should expect a decade or more of misery. Cal isn't going to fire his sons Godfather even after BoB is dead and gone.

Great things in the future? 2-14

I thought that it was the other way around: that Cal was Rick's son's godfather?

Either way, the point stands: Rick is too close to the McNair family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

steelbtexan
12-23-2013, 01:13 AM
As it will be for all of us. It's just the Texan Way.

Only because winning isn't the top priority for BoB.

Texian
12-23-2013, 09:44 AM
Only because winning isn't the top priority for BoB.

McNairs want to win, they don't know how to win. McNair's "Commitment to Excellence" is absent Lombardi's "Commitment to Excellence". McNair's loyalty to Rick Smith is akin to Gary Kubiak's Good Old Boy, Buddy Plan.

thunderkyss
12-23-2013, 08:05 PM
Only because winning isn't the top priority for BoB.

Like it's that easy to build a winning franchise from scratch.

He's doing as well (arguably better) as the Jags, the Panthers, & the Browns. As well as (arguably better) than several teams that have been around longer..... the Cowboys, Buffalo, San Diego, Tennessee.

Yeah... we could be doing a lot better, but whatever it is you think McNair should have done in the last 10 years, one of those other teams did it, & it did not work.

It takes a string of several consecutive right moves to make a successful franchise.

Texian
12-23-2013, 09:12 PM
He's doing as well (arguably better) as the Jags, the Panthers, & the Browns. As well as (arguably better) than several teams that have been around longer..... the Cowboys, Buffalo, San Diego, Tennessee.



The Scoreboard says NO!

thunderkyss
12-24-2013, 09:56 AM
The Scoreboard says NO!

Over the past 12 years, I believe it does.

JB
12-24-2013, 10:11 AM
The Scoreboard says NO!

Over the past 12 years, I believe it does.

This year it does

In our history it compares favorably to all you mentioned but the Panthers

CretorFrigg
12-30-2013, 03:58 PM
Bump.

The season is over. Why does Rick Smith still have a job? Get this scrub out of here.


2007
Amobi Okoye (1) - Bust
Jacoby Jones (3) - OK
Fred Bennett (4) - Bust
Brandon Harrison (5) -Bust
Brandon Frye (5) - Bust
Kasey Studdard (6) - OK
Zac Diles (7) - Bust

2008

Duane Brown (1) - Good
Antwaun Molden (3) - Bust
Steve Slaton (3) - 1 good year
Xavier Adibi (4) - Bust
Frank Okam (5) - Bust
Dominique Barber (6) - Bust
Alex Brink (7) - Bust

2009

Brian Cushing (1) - Good
Connor Barwin (2) - Good
Antoine Caldwell (3) - Bust
Glover Quin (4) - Good
Anthony Hill (4) - Bust
James Casey (5) - OK
Brice McCain (6) - OK
Troy Nolan (7) - Bust

2010

Kareem Jackson (1) - OK
Ben Tate (2) - OK
Earl Mitchell (3) - OK
Darryl Sharpton (4) - OK
Garrett Graham (4) - Bust
Sherrick McManis (5) - Bust
Shelley Smith (6) - Bust
Trindon Holliday (6) - OK
Dorin Dickerson (7) - Bust

2011

JJ Watt (1) - Good
Brooks Reed (2) - OK
Brandon Harris (2) - Scrub
Rashad Carmichael (4) - Bust
Shiloh Keo (5) - Scrub
T.J Yates (5) - OK back-up
Derek Newton (7) - Scrub
Cheta Ozugwa (7) - Who?

2012

Whitney Mercilus (1) - OK, but not 1st round talent
DeVier Posey (2) - OK, but lots of better WRs were available
Brandon Brooks (3)
Ben Jones (4)
Keshawn Martin (4)
Jared Crick (4)
Randy Bullock (5)
Nick Mondek (6)

2013

DeAndre Hopkins (1)
D.J. Swearinger (2)
Brennan Williams (3)
Sam Montgomery (3)
Trevardo Williams (4)
David Quassenbery (6)
Alan Bonner (6)
Chris Jones (6)
Ryan Griffin (6)

Conclusion: Fire Rick Smith

The Pencil Neck
12-30-2013, 04:17 PM
Bump.

The season is over. Why does Rick Smith still have a job? Get this scrub out of here.

First off, I'd be fine if Smith was fired.

BUT...

Calling someone a bust who was drafted after the 3rd round is a stretch of the word bust.

But more importantly, you don't know which of these guys were Rick Smith's picks and which of these guys were Kubiak or some other coach's pick. For all we know, Rick would have drafted a completely different set of players if he had his way. McNair knows which guys Rick wanted to draft... and he has apparently decided to keep the guy. So it might be that Rick Smith was better at drafting than we know.

thunderkyss
12-30-2013, 05:01 PM
I'm still holding out hope that he'll be fired the same way Casserly was fired; after the draft. Rick Smith out watching bowl games & McNair being the public voice of our coaching search feeds my delusion.

steelbtexan
12-30-2013, 08:11 PM
Token= Slick Rick

dream_team
12-31-2013, 02:15 AM
Bump.

The season is over. Why does Rick Smith still have a job? Get this scrub out of here.


2007
Amobi Okoye (1) - Bust
Jacoby Jones (3) - OK
Fred Bennett (4) - Bust
Brandon Harrison (5) -Bust
Brandon Frye (5) - Bust
Kasey Studdard (6) - OK
Zac Diles (7) - Bust

2008

Duane Brown (1) - Good
Antwaun Molden (3) - Bust
Steve Slaton (3) - 1 good year
Xavier Adibi (4) - Bust
Frank Okam (5) - Bust
Dominique Barber (6) - Bust
Alex Brink (7) - Bust

2009

Brian Cushing (1) - Good
Connor Barwin (2) - Good
Antoine Caldwell (3) - Bust
Glover Quin (4) - Good
Anthony Hill (4) - Bust
James Casey (5) - OK
Brice McCain (6) - OK
Troy Nolan (7) - Bust

2010

Kareem Jackson (1) - OK
Ben Tate (2) - OK
Earl Mitchell (3) - OK
Darryl Sharpton (4) - OK
Garrett Graham (4) - Bust
Sherrick McManis (5) - Bust
Shelley Smith (6) - Bust
Trindon Holliday (6) - OK
Dorin Dickerson (7) - Bust

2011

JJ Watt (1) - Good
Brooks Reed (2) - OK
Brandon Harris (2) - Scrub
Rashad Carmichael (4) - Bust
Shiloh Keo (5) - Scrub
T.J Yates (5) - OK back-up
Derek Newton (7) - Scrub
Cheta Ozugwa (7) - Who?

2012

Whitney Mercilus (1) - OK, but not 1st round talent
DeVier Posey (2) - OK, but lots of better WRs were available
Brandon Brooks (3)
Ben Jones (4)
Keshawn Martin (4)
Jared Crick (4)
Randy Bullock (5)
Nick Mondek (6)

2013

DeAndre Hopkins (1)
D.J. Swearinger (2)
Brennan Williams (3)
Sam Montgomery (3)
Trevardo Williams (4)
David Quassenbery (6)
Alan Bonner (6)
Chris Jones (6)
Ryan Griffin (6)

Conclusion: Fire Rick Smith

What's your point? Every GM in the league picks Busts.

I think Rick is doing a fine job and I'm ok with him sticking around.

steelbtexan
12-31-2013, 02:20 AM
What's your point? Every GM in the league picks Busts.

I think Rick is doing a fine job and I'm ok with him sticking around.

If you think that is a fine job by Slick Rick, then you must set very low standards.

The teams is 2-14 for a reason and Slick's draft history is a very big part of that history of suckitude.

The Pencil Neck
12-31-2013, 02:38 AM
If you think that is a fine job by Slick Rick, then you must set very low standards.

The teams is 2-14 for a reason and Slick's draft history is a very big part of that history of suckitude.

How much did his draft history have for us going 10-6 and 12-4? How many guys have hit 2 DROY over that time span? And how much of these drafts are his choices?

Norg
12-31-2013, 03:01 AM
2007
Amobi Okoye (1) - Bust
Jacoby Jones (3) - OK
Fred Bennett (4) - Bust
Brandon Harrison (5) -Bust
Brandon Frye (5) - Bust
Kasey Studdard (6) - BUST
Zac Diles (7) - Bust

2008

Duane Brown (1) - Good
Antwaun Molden (3) - Bust
Steve Slaton (3) - BUST
Xavier Adibi (4) - Bust
Frank Okam (5) - Bust
Dominique Barber (6) - Bust
Alex Brink (7) - Bust

2009

Brian Cushing (1) - Good...Injury prone knocks him down to OK IMO
Connor Barwin (2) - Good
Antoine Caldwell (3) - Bust
Glover Quin (4) - Good
Anthony Hill (4) - Bust
James Casey (5) - OK
Brice McCain (6) - SCRUB....Brice MC BURN SCRUB
Troy Nolan (7) - Bust

2010

Kareem Jackson (1) - Average
Ben Tate (2) - OK
Earl Mitchell (3) - OK
Darryl Sharpton (4) - OK
Garrett Graham (4) - Bust
Sherrick McManis (5) - Bust
Shelley Smith (6) - Bust
Trindon Holliday (6) - BUST
Dorin Dickerson (7) - Bust

2011

JJ Watt (1) - AAA
Brooks Reed (2) - SCRUB
Brandon Harris (2) - Scrub
Rashad Carmichael (4) - Bust
Shiloh Keo (5) - ok
T.J Yates (5) - SCRUB
Derek Newton (7) - Scrub
Cheta Ozugwa (7) -BUST

2012

Whitney Mercilus (1) - OK, but not 1st round talent
DeVier Posey (2) SCRUB I want to like him but yeah
Brandon Brooks (3)
Ben Jones SCRUB
Keshawn Martin (4)
Jared Crick BUST
Randy Bullock SUPER BUST
Nick Mondek ..?????

2013

DeAndre Hopkins ok
D.J. Swearinger ok
Brennan Williams ..???
Sam Montgomery BUST
Trevardo Williams BUST
David Quassenbery ..???
Alan Bonner BUST
Chris Jones ..???
Ryan Griffin ok

did some tweekin


35 BUSTS

10 Ok players

4 good players

like 2 ..????? unknown players it was 4 but ill just add them two busts

and like 1 AAA player JJ WATT

I don't think that's gonna get it down LOL

corytx8
12-31-2013, 03:59 AM
How much did his draft history have for us going 10-6 and 12-4? How many guys have hit 2 DROY over that time span? And how much of these drafts are his choices?


Don't forget finding Arian Foster.....

welsh texan
12-31-2013, 07:49 AM
I'm still holding out hope that he'll be fired the same way Casserly was fired; after the draft. Rick Smith out watching bowl games & McNair being the public voice of our coaching search feeds my delusion.

Only problem with that, TK, is that it sets up the exact same power dynamic of HC being linger tenured than GM that McNair has publicly expressed his displeasure with.

I wouldn't have been too upset if rick got the boot, but a little like kubes in 2010, in just going to get over it right away, I see plenty of arguments that plausibly diminish ricks responsibility for this current mess, and McNair is in the best position to tell whether those are fair or not.

Right now, Rick needs to be focused on where this team is headed personnel wise, we need a lot of quality guys on rookie contracts, CB is set to become a cap issue shortly die to JoJos contract, AJs contract makes him a difficult keep as soon as his production starts to dip, our oline is living off potential and possibly needs a total do over depending on scheme.

So many issues both at hand now and coming up, I think the new coaching staff will benefit from having some stability in the FO so I can support meeting rick for now.

steelbtexan
12-31-2013, 08:10 AM
How much did his draft history have for us going 10-6 and 12-4? How many guys have hit 2 DROY over that time span? And how much of these drafts are his choices?

Look at his draft history, it speaks for itself.

10-6, 12-4 against a bad division

Getting blown out anytime they played upper echelon teams, color me unimpressed by Slick Rick's tenure.

TheIronDuke
12-31-2013, 09:49 AM
I can't believe anyone can actually say with a straight face tht Smith has done a good job in the draft. One only needs to look at the DBs and LBs he's drafted after the first to realize that he's incapable of selecting anything approaching talent there and he busts in the first round too. We have to sign free agents to make up for his inability to draft defense. He's done a terrible job with the cap as well.

He is only able to draft in the first round and I am pretty sure that that's only because the coaches have the most input in those picks. And just because he had a good UFA pick up doesn't mean he's doing a good job. And it's actually sad we had 2 UFA make the team from this past draft over players we actually drafted. Both of which we cut anyways while NE is able to use one of the players we drafted and cut as a DT who has more sacks this season than anyone we have besides Watt!

I have zero faith in Rick Smith and we will not go anywhere with that moron having any input. He spent seconds on Brooke Reed, who is the worst LB I've ever seen an Brandon Harris who can't even beat out Brice McCain. And that's a good GM?

cstyle42
12-31-2013, 10:26 AM
Token= Slick Rick

:) smh up and down

thunderkyss
12-31-2013, 10:32 AM
Only problem with that, TK, is that it sets up the exact same power dynamic of HC being linger tenured than GM that McNair has publicly expressed his displeasure with.


Not at all. The power dynamic was set up because it was Kubiak that fingered Smith for the job. He is a "F.O.G." the first actually.

If Rick gets the ax after the draft, as long as Bob doesn't as his HC to pick the next GM, it's not the same thing. McNair may be setting up a structure where all things Texans converge on him..... like a CEO. The finance guy, the Sales manager, the Production manager, head of R&D all answer to the CEO. They've got to work together, but none of them work for the other.

In Denver, that guy is John Elway. The GM doesn't work for the HC, the HC doesn't work for the GM. They both answer to John Elway.

Texian
12-31-2013, 10:53 AM
In Denver, that guy is John Elway. The GM doesn't work for the HC, the HC doesn't work for the GM. They both answer to John Elway.

Elway is the GM, Executive VP of Football Operations
http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff-directory.html

thunderkyss
12-31-2013, 10:55 AM
I can't believe anyone can actually say with a straight face tht Smith has done a good job in the draft. One only needs to look at the DBs and LBs he's drafted after the first to realize that he's incapable of selecting anything approaching talent there and he busts in the first round too. We have to sign free agents to make up for his inability to draft defense. He's done a terrible job with the cap as well.

He is only able to draft in the first round and I am pretty sure that that's only because the coaches have the most input in those picks. And just because he had a good UFA pick up doesn't mean he's doing a good job. And it's actually sad we had 2 UFA make the team from this past draft over players we actually drafted. Both of which we cut anyways while NE is able to use one of the players we drafted and cut as a DT who has more sacks this season than anyone we have besides Watt!

I have zero faith in Rick Smith and we will not go anywhere with that moron having any input. He spent seconds on Brooke Reed, who is the worst LB I've ever seen an Brandon Harris who can't even beat out Brice McCain. And that's a good GM?

I want Rick Smith fired. I've wanted him gone since 2010 more so than Gary.

You bring up some good points, but our DT going to New England says more about coaches than it does Rick Smith. It says the same thing that Demps starting & playing well for Kansas city says, not to mention returning kicks pretty well too. It says the same thing that Ben Tate's tenure in the dog house says, the same thing Brandon Harris's inability to beat out McCain says..... for some reason our coaches hold grudges against players & let "non-field" related issues keep them off the field.

In the long-term, I don't know if Kubiak's approach, demanding his players be "pros" is a good thing or not. But I know it isn't conducive to winning when less talented players are on the field & you're talented draft picks are on the sidelines.

thunderkyss
12-31-2013, 11:11 AM
Elway is the GM, Executive VP of Football Operations
http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff-directory.html

Now... but when he was hired, Xanders (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_20568607/broncos-brian-xanders-agree-part-ways-after-four-years)was the GM. Fox was the coach. Xanders left & Elway just didn't replace him. He absorbed his duties.

dream_team
01-02-2014, 11:24 AM
BoB/Rick/Charley/Gary make this stuff sound like brain surgery. It's not, you just have to do your homework and be willing to take risks on talented/injured players with Character flaws in the late rds. Teams that win do this regularly, and until the Texans get in the game they will continue to be a hit or miss winning team and never a true SB contender. IMHO

Ummm... didn't the Texans do this last season with Brennan Williams and Sam Montgomery, and the fans severly punished Rick for doing so.

How many impact players did the Texans lose this offseason? 2-3? Quin/Cody/Barwin/Walter/Casey? Who else did they lose that you would say was a true impact player? They had 4 picks in the 1st 3 rds to replace these guys. If your going to be a pay your guys a kings ransom (BoB/Rick/Gary's choice) your going to lose guys. That's the way the system is set up. How do you replace them? By doing the hard work and hitting on 3-4 guys a yr.

Quin was replaced by Swearinger. Walter replaced by Hopkins. Mitchell was just as effective as Cody. Jones is a better pure FB than Casey. And Barwin was overpaid by Philly.

So in your mind, who exactly is an excellent GM? All GMs in this league miss on draft picks and lose players due to the salary cap.

Scooter
01-02-2014, 11:40 AM
drunk post.

thunderkyss
01-02-2014, 11:53 AM
Ummm... didn't the Texans do this last season with Brennan Williams and Sam Montgomery, and the fans severly punished Rick for doing so.


Yeah... they need to get better. Then they won't be as severely punished.

Didn't last draft seem a bit "panicked" & out of character to you?

Playoffs
01-03-2014, 01:59 PM
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
In the salary cap era "you have got to have coaches who are teachers," because you rely on a lot of young players, Smith says. #Texans

James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN
Making adjustments and the ability to do that is the main talking point from Rick Smith. #texans

Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock
"Got to have a little charisma and personality" Speaking glowingly about O"Brien and his recommendations. #Texans

"Only scored twice in the first 5 minutes of football games" Rick Smith

Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
Rick Smith said everyone he's talked to about BOB talks about his character. #Texans

Smith mentions accountability and toughness. Says games are won and lost in first and last five minutes. #Texans

"We identified the traits and characteristics that we were looking for in the next head coach, but then we also looked at our organization and our team and we tried to look at where we felt like where we were deficient and how could we look to improve those areas. Once we did that, one of the things that I think Bob just talked about was intelligence. Intelligence, innovative, flexibility - that was one of the things that we were looking for. From a football perspective that happens from game to game, whether you are talking about a personnel grouping or how you attack defenses, or how you attack offenses, but the ability to be innovative or flexible that way [is an ability that] you have to have.

You come out in the first half and you have a game plan that you worked on all week, but then you have to adjust and be innovative - flexible that way. But then over the course of a football season you have to have that same ability. We were tied for first with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with number of guys that were on injured reserve with sixteen, and so you've got to be able to adjust and adapt to those changing circumstances. Conversely the Green Bay Packers were actually third with fifteen and they're in the playoffs, so you've got to be able to do that over the course of a football season and being innovative and flexible and intelligent is one of the things that we think Bill represents."

beerlover
01-03-2014, 02:10 PM
Is Rick Smith being held accountable? Were all mistakes leading up to this past seasons collapse solely on Head Coach, Gary Kubiak?

When Rick reached out his hand to shake Bill O'Brian hand, end of press conference, to me felt uncomfortable & awkward.

Playoffs
01-03-2014, 02:12 PM
Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
Smith not opposed to trading down. "We’ll get a good player or we’ll move and get good value for the pick and improve our football team."

Deepi Sidhu ‏@DeepSlant
Rick Smith also talked about getting the QB situation resolved: "We didn't have an effective player at the position last year." #Texans

TheIronDuke
01-03-2014, 03:21 PM
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli


James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN


Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock


Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro


"We identified the traits and characteristics that we were looking for in the next head coach, but then we also looked at our organization and our team and we tried to look at where we felt like where we were deficient and how could we look to improve those areas. Once we did that, one of the things that I think Bob just talked about was intelligence. Intelligence, innovative, flexibility - that was one of the things that we were looking for. From a football perspective that happens from game to game, whether you are talking about a personnel grouping or how you attack defenses, or how you attack offenses, but the ability to be innovative or flexible that way [is an ability that] you have to have.

You come out in the first half and you have a game plan that you worked on all week, but then you have to adjust and be innovative - flexible that way. But then over the course of a football season you have to have that same ability. We were tied for first with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with number of guys that were on injured reserve with sixteen, and so you've got to be able to adjust and adapt to those changing circumstances. Conversely the Green Bay Packers were actually third with fifteen and they're in the playoffs, so you've got to be able to do that over the course of a football season and being innovative and flexible and intelligent is one of the things that we think Bill represents."

I like how he used the IR excuse even though most of the draft was made up of players they only stashed on IR because they weren't good enough to play. Way to go Rick. :fingergun:

thunderkyss
01-03-2014, 07:51 PM
Conversely the Green Bay Packers were actually third with fifteen and they're in the playoffs, so you've got to be able to do that over the course of a football season and being innovative and flexible and intelligent is one of the things that we think Bill represents.I like how he used the IR excuse... :fingergun:

Not to mention 9-7 got into the play-offs.

dalemurphy
01-03-2014, 10:02 PM
I like how he used the IR excuse even though most of the draft was made up of players they only stashed on IR because they weren't good enough to play. Way to go Rick. :fingergun:

It wasn't an excuse... quite the opposite. It was a vale criticism of Kubiak and Wade's inability to adjust and compensate schematically and in game plan preparation when the team loses key players.

I must say that I could not agree more! The greatest frustration I have had with this coaching staff is their inability to adjust- both in the middle of a game and week to week. The epitome of that frustration, for me, was last year's playoff game vs. New England. Watching Brady and company isolate anyone they wanted on Tim Dobbins in man coverage play after play was insufferable, especially since it had just happened one month earlier in the regular season.

Certainly, the same is true on offense. Offensively, it tended to be the personnel decisions on Sundays, ranging from the unwillingness to rotate RBs the past 4 years, the insistence of playing Newton over Harris this year and last year, shoving Studdard down our throats for two years (I'm still bitter about letting Shelley Smith walk), etc....

Norg
01-04-2014, 12:18 AM
I don't know why rick isn't held accountable he was part of the regime that got us to a 2-14 hes been here just has long has kubes 8 years and he has a long list of faliures just like KUBES

I did the numbers in his drafts

he drafts like 75 % Busts like and the reast of the players are OK


only 2 Superstars BROWN and Watt and I don't even think he picked watt that seems like a Wade pick 2 me

Exascor
01-04-2014, 12:26 AM
only 2 Superstars BROWN and Watt and I don't even think he picked watt that seems like a Wade pick 2 me
If you credit Phillips for Watt, then you answered your own question. You can't say the best players are coaches picks and the worst are Smiths.

I'm on record saying that Smith should have been part of wholesale changes. He's not going anywhere. I'm going to give him a clean slate. We don't know what happened out of public view. McNair does and chose to keep him.

thunderkyss
01-04-2014, 12:36 AM
I'm still holding out hope he'll be replaced after the draft.

dalemurphy
01-04-2014, 02:17 AM
I don't know why rick isn't held accountable he was part of the regime that got us to a 2-14 hes been here just has long has kubes 8 years and he has a long list of faliures just like KUBES

I did the numbers in his drafts

he drafts like 75 % Busts like and the reast of the players are OK


only 2 Superstars BROWN and Watt and I don't even think he picked watt that seems like a Wade pick 2 me

Use the same methodology and check out the other 31 teams.... I'm not sure how many "superstars" you expect a guy to draft...

Rick isn't going anywhere this year. That fact was clear if you watched the press conference today. Only McNair, and others in the inner circle of the organization know which decisions were ultimately Smith's and which were Kubiak's... Still, we just removed a coach in the middle of the season who took a roster built by Rick Smith to consecutive 12 win seasons. So, was the coaching that good in 2011 and 2012? If so, why fire the guy that took a poorly drafted roster into the playoffs? Or, was Kubiak justly fired for dramatically failing to get the best out of a roster that one season earlier was capable of 12-4 regular season...

Perhaps the foundation of this team was built on Quin, Casey, Barwin... and their loss destroyed the team's ability to compete... If so, do we blame Rick Smith for their loss or credit him with drafting three players in the middle rounds that are so impactful on an NFL team so early in their respective careers?

Those of you who are so adamant about what an awful coach Kubiak was and how poorly Rick Smith drafted, please explain how this team won so many games in 2011 and 2012 and yet only won two games in 2013. And please, do us all a favor and don't attribute it to luck... or scheduling. This is the NFL!

paycheck71
01-04-2014, 02:27 AM
Use the same methodology and check out the other 31 teams.... I'm not sure how many "superstars" you expect a guy to draft...

Rick isn't going anywhere this year. That fact was clear if you watched the press conference today. Only McNair, and others in the inner circle of the organization know which decisions were ultimately Smith's and which were Kubiak's... Still, we just removed a coach in the middle of the season who took a roster built by Rick Smith to consecutive 12 win seasons. So, was the coaching that good in 2011 and 2012? If so, why fire the guy that took a poorly drafted roster into the playoffs? Or, was Kubiak justly fired for dramatically failing to get the best out of a roster that one season earlier was capable of 12-4 regular season...

Perhaps the foundation of this team was built on Quin, Casey, Barwin... and their loss destroyed the team's ability to compete... If so, do we blame Rick Smith for their loss or credit him with drafting three players in the middle rounds that are so impactful on an NFL team so early in their respective careers?

Those of you who are so adamant about what an awful coach Kubiak was and how poorly Rick Smith drafted, please explain how this team won so many games in 2011 and 2012 and yet only won two games in 2013. And please, do us all a favor and don't attribute it to luck... or scheduling. This is the NFL!

I really feel like the 2 win season is mainly attributable to the drastic decline in play at the QB position. I think if Schaub had played all 16 games at the level he showed at the start of the season, we probably were good for 7 to 9 wins. But we expected much better, so changes had to be made. Keenum didn't turn out to be who we wanted him to be. And at some point apathy set in, and we weren't going to win another game, no matter what happened.

steelbtexan
01-04-2014, 03:31 PM
Is Rick Smith being held accountable? Were all mistakes leading up to this past seasons collapse solely on Head Coach, Gary Kubiak?

When Rick reached out his hand to shake Bill O'Brian hand, end of press conference, to me felt uncomfortable & awkward.

Yes men quite often feel this way.

steelbtexan
01-04-2014, 03:46 PM
Use the same methodology and check out the other 31 teams.... I'm not sure how many "superstars" you expect a guy to draft...

Rick isn't going anywhere this year. That fact was clear if you watched the press conference today. Only McNair, and others in the inner circle of the organization know which decisions were ultimately Smith's and which were Kubiak's... Still, we just removed a coach in the middle of the season who took a roster built by Rick Smith to consecutive 12 win seasons. So, was the coaching that good in 2011 and 2012? If so, why fire the guy that took a poorly drafted roster into the playoffs? Or, was Kubiak justly fired for dramatically failing to get the best out of a roster that one season earlier was capable of 12-4 regular season...

Perhaps the foundation of this team was built on Quin, Casey, Barwin... and their loss destroyed the team's ability to compete... If so, do we blame Rick Smith for their loss or credit him with drafting three players in the middle rounds that are so impactful on an NFL team so early in their respective careers?

Those of you who are so adamant about what an awful coach Kubiak was and how poorly Rick Smith drafted, please explain how this team won so many games in 2011 and 2012 and yet only won two games in 2013. And please, do us all a favor and don't attribute it to luck... or scheduling. This is the NFL!

Consecutive 12-4 seasons?

Manning got hurt and the Texans played a relatively easy schedule in the weakest division in the NFL.

dalemurphy
01-04-2014, 04:38 PM
Consecutive 12-4 seasons?

Manning got hurt and the Texans played a relatively easy schedule in the weakest division in the NFL.

The Texans won 12 games in 2011 (playoff game included)... including 5 of them with a rookie 5th round pick at QB and essentially without Andre Johnson. (How does the depth Rick Smith developed via the draft compare with what Bill Polian had minus Peyton Manning?)

Then, the won 13 games the next season (playoff game included), without the services of Brian Cushing most of the season and a diminished Schaub, resulting from his injury in 2011... How does that roster and cap management compare with what Indy did, with the good fortune of falling into Andrew Luck's draft pick?... The two teams played essentially identical schedules over the course of the two seasons (The Texans schedule only appears weaker, according to record, because Indy played the Texans while the Texans played Indy over those 4 games).

I have issues with some personnel decisions the Texans have made. But, I'm not going to hold Rick Smith responsible for things he had nothing to do with...

His draft record is pretty good... It's even better if you are correct about how poor of a coach Gary Kubiak was. Smith put together a team with multiple All-pros. He drafted those players without ever having the luxury of a top 5 pick. All of the Indy Colts success throughout their domination of the AFC South is a direct result of capitalizing on the good fortune of the 1st pick in the draft (Peyton and Luck). As you asserted earlier, the Colts are nothing without that one, single person... Essentially, that means the Colts would've had similar success if Mel Kiper was their GM.

It will be interesting to see how the talent acquisition changes with the new staff. It will also be interesting to see how the new staff assesses the existing talent. Are you going to credit Rick Smith with his drafting prowess if guys like: Mercilus, Hopkins, B.Brooks, Swearinger, T. Williams, Quessenburry, KJ, Posey, B.Harris appear to be more effective players in 2014 and 2015? Or, will you then argue that Smith doesn't deserve credit, but their success is due to the coaching staff?

I would just like to see some consistency from the anti-Smith crowd. Please explain how much responsibility the coaching staff has for the development, assessment, and quality of play from the players. I should make a correction: the arguments have been consistent- if a player under-performs, Smith and Kubiak are both 100% responsible for their failure. If a player over-performs, it is a fluke and neither deserve any credit. It is the only way to bash Kubiak for failing as a coach in 2011 and in 2012 while still discrediting Rick Smith's assembly of the talent capable of winning 25 games in two seasons with an awful head coach.

Jackie Chiles
01-04-2014, 04:43 PM
The Texans won 12 games in 2011 (playoff game included)... including 5 of them with a rookie 5th round pick at QB and essentially without Andre Johnson. (How does the depth Rick Smith developed via the draft compare with what Bill Polian had minus Peyton Manning?)

Not jumping into the argument but we won 10 games in the regular season in 2011 therefore 11 with the playoff win.

dalemurphy
01-04-2014, 04:44 PM
Yes men quite often feel this way.

:handshake:

LikeMike
01-04-2014, 04:48 PM
I don't know why rick isn't held accountable he was part of the regime that got us to a 2-14 hes been here just has long has kubes 8 years and he has a long list of faliures just like KUBES

I did the numbers in his drafts

he drafts like 75 % Busts like and the reast of the players are OK


only 2 Superstars BROWN and Watt and I don't even think he picked watt that seems like a Wade pick 2 me

Just a couple of seasons ago people were consideeing him GM of the year... this team has talent, enough talent that this team was considered a super bowl contender before the season. He did mistakes, especially with some big contracts and some FA leaving, but overall he built a pretty strong roster. Last season was much more the coaches fault than the GMs.

75% busts? Perhaps last season, though I am not even sure about that. Guys like McCain, Mitchell or Crick ain`t busts - you can`t expect top talents in every round. And don`t forget about Cushing, Tate, Foster, Jackson, Quin, Barwin even Graham, Griffin and perhaps Mercilus and Reed... we might not hit the home run every year, but for the most part our drafts have been solid.

dalemurphy
01-04-2014, 05:15 PM
Not jumping into the argument but we won 10 games in the regular season in 2011 therefore 11 with the playoff win.

Wow! I follow the Texans pretty closely and can easily quote their record from the beginning off the top of my head.

4-12
5-11
7-9
2-14
6-10.. etc... (first win against Miami..Mario batted a ball down in the red zone to seal the win)

I was convinced we went 11-5 in 2011! Typical Sunshine Club Member, I convinced myself that we won the Delhomme game vs. Tennessee at the end of the year to such a degree that I actually reinvented the history in my own head... Actually, it's a little scary. Sorry for the error.

infantrycak
01-04-2014, 05:31 PM
6-10.. etc... (first win against Miami..Mario batted a ball down in the red zone to seal the win)

2nd. 1st win was opening day 2003. Matt Stevens took Ricky Williams' shoe off so he wasn't available for a 2 pt conversion.. Marcus Coleman ended the Fins last two drives with INTs.

Texecutioner
01-04-2014, 05:35 PM
I'm not going to be bashing Rick Smith right now as he has made me pretty happy as a fan with his last hire.

A lot of people may dislike Rick Smith (I have been one of them), but he played a hand in hiring O'Brien and him and Bob both decided that "they" needed to adapt as management and find a guy that had a lot of the opposite characteristics of what Kubiak was. Kudos to Rick Smith for recognizing the big changes that this team needed after this season we just had. Him and Kubes were always tight and Kubiak played a big hand in getting him hired here, so Rick always "owed" some loyalty to Kubiak which I hated, but none the less I understood it. Now that Kubiak is gone, I don't know if Rick's philosophy as a GM will be quite the same. I guess we're just going to have to watch and see how things play out over the next few years. But as of now, Rick Smith just made a great decision as a GM in my eyes and if it turns this franchise around for many years I'd say that Rick Smith has learned a few things possibly which is all I can ask of a fan. Learn from your mistakes and don't frequently repeat them. Rick just might be learning and "ADAPTING" as crazy as that sounds.

thunderkyss
01-04-2014, 05:59 PM
2nd. 1st win was opening day 2003. Matt Stevens took Ricky Williams' shoe off so he wasn't available for a 2 pt conversion.. Marcus Coleman ended the Fins last two drives with INTs.

I think he meant first win that season. Not against Miami.

The first win of that season was against Miami. Mario sealed it with batting the ball down..... etc...

steelbtexan
01-05-2014, 10:05 AM
Just a couple of seasons ago people were consideeing him GM of the year... this team has talent, enough talent that this team was considered a super bowl contender before the season. He did mistakes, especially with some big contracts and some FA leaving, but overall he built a pretty strong roster. Last season was much more the coaches fault than the GMs.

75% busts? Perhaps last season, though I am not even sure about that. Guys like McCain, Mitchell or Crick ain`t busts - you can`t expect top talents in every round. And don`t forget about Cushing, Tate, Foster, Jackson, Quin, Barwin even Graham, Griffin and perhaps Mercilus and Reed... we might not hit the home run every year, but for the most part our drafts have been solid.

The Texans were 2-14 for a reason.

Lack of depth on the roster was a big part of the problem. That goes back to drafting. Extending Schaub was a brilliant move. Gary may have been the catalyst but Rick could've said no.

Yes, the good doc predicted Shaub's falling off the cliff and Rick should know more than a MB Dr. He has access to all of the medical info that C-N-D doesn't have. It's like nobody took the time to review Schaubs medicals. (Brilliant) See Ed Reed

steelbtexan
01-05-2014, 10:08 AM
I'm not going to be bashing Rick Smith right now as he has made me pretty happy as a fan with his last hire.

A lot of people may dislike Rick Smith (I have been one of them), but he played a hand in hiring O'Brien and him and Bob both decided that "they" needed to adapt as management and find a guy that had a lot of the opposite characteristics of what Kubiak was. Kudos to Rick Smith for recognizing the big changes that this team needed after this season we just had. Him and Kubes were always tight and Kubiak played a big hand in getting him hired here, so Rick always "owed" some loyalty to Kubiak which I hated, but none the less I understood it. Now that Kubiak is gone, I don't know if Rick's philosophy as a GM will be quite the same. I guess we're just going to have to watch and see how things play out over the next few years. But as of now, Rick Smith just made a great decision as a GM in my eyes and if it turns this franchise around for many years I'd say that Rick Smith has learned a few things possibly which is all I can ask of a fan. Learn from your mistakes and don't frequently repeat them. Rick just might be learning and "ADAPTING" as crazy as that sounds.

Hope you're right. Proof will be in the pudding.

Norg
01-05-2014, 12:49 PM
I'm not going to be bashing Rick Smith right now as he has made me pretty happy as a fan with his last hire.

A lot of people may dislike Rick Smith (I have been one of them), but he played a hand in hiring O'Brien and him and Bob both decided that "they" needed to adapt as management and find a guy that had a lot of the opposite characteristics of what Kubiak was. Kudos to Rick Smith for recognizing the big changes that this team needed after this season we just had. Him and Kubes were always tight and Kubiak played a big hand in getting him hired here, so Rick always "owed" some loyalty to Kubiak which I hated, but none the less I understood it. Now that Kubiak is gone, I don't know if Rick's philosophy as a GM will be quite the same. I guess we're just going to have to watch and see how things play out over the next few years. But as of now, Rick Smith just made a great decision as a GM in my eyes and if it turns this franchise around for many years I'd say that Rick Smith has learned a few things possibly which is all I can ask of a fan. Learn from your mistakes and don't frequently repeat them. Rick just might be learning and "ADAPTING" as crazy as that sounds.

hahaha dis is funny RIck found and helped bring in BOB HAHAHAH

whats to find Bill o brein and Lovie were the two hottest coaches in the nation ..???? the media was talking about bill like 6 months ago has the top F/a Coach

bill wanted to go anywere has long has he was out of the polotics and train wreck that is penn state

Norg
01-05-2014, 12:54 PM
Use the same methodology and check out the other 31 teams.... I'm not sure how many "superstars" you expect a guy to draft...

Rick isn't going anywhere this year. That fact was clear if you watched the press conference today. Only McNair, and others in the inner circle of the organization know which decisions were ultimately Smith's and which were Kubiak's... Still, we just removed a coach in the middle of the season who took a roster built by Rick Smith to consecutive 12 win seasons. So, was the coaching that good in 2011 and 2012? If so, why fire the guy that took a poorly drafted roster into the playoffs? Or, was Kubiak justly fired for dramatically failing to get the best out of a roster that one season earlier was capable of 12-4 regular season...

Perhaps the foundation of this team was built on Quin, Casey, Barwin... and their loss destroyed the team's ability to compete... If so, do we blame Rick Smith for their loss or credit him with drafting three players in the middle rounds that are so impactful on an NFL team so early in their respective careers?

Those of you who are so adamant about what an awful coach Kubiak was and how poorly Rick Smith drafted, please explain how this team won so many games in 2011 and 2012 and yet only won two games in 2013. And please, do us all a favor and don't attribute it to luck... or scheduling. This is the NFL!


its easy to win 10 games in 11 games IN THE """Regular season""""" when u go

6-10

8-8

8-8

9-7

6-10


talk about a slow and steady 5 year Rebuildng plan I would hope some fruits of rick and kubes come to reality LOL

but its all the stuff Rick did within those 5 years of medoricty that throw up red flags to me

DX-TEX
01-05-2014, 12:55 PM
hahaha dis is funny RIck found and helped bring in BOB HAHAHAH

whats to find Bill o brein and Lovie were the two hottest coaches in the nation ..???? the media was talking about bill like 6 months ago has the top F/a Coach

bill wanted to go anywere has long has he was out of the polotics and train wreck that is penn state

And we landed the hottest coaching candidate, that doesn't just happen on accident. If BOB took this job just to get "out of the polotics and train wreck that is penn state" why did he turn down Cleveland last season?

welsh texan
01-05-2014, 01:02 PM
And we landed the hottest coaching candidate, that doesn't just happen on accident. If BOB took this job just to get "out of the polotics and train wreck that is penn state" why did he turn down Cleveland last season?

Yeah cos that was a great HC gig to take...

DX-TEX
01-05-2014, 01:05 PM
Yeah cos that was a great HC gig to take...

As he was implying that he only took the job to leave PSU it is a valid observation. He was also wanted this season by the Lions and Vikings so he had options

dalemurphy
01-05-2014, 01:26 PM
its easy to win 10 games in 11 games IN THE """Regular season""""" when u go

6-10

8-8

8-8

9-7

6-10


talk about a slow and steady 5 year Rebuildng plan I would hope some fruits of rick and kubes come to reality LOL

but its all the stuff Rick did within those 5 years of medoricty that throw up red flags to me

Who cares about the question: was Rick Smith a good GM in 2007?

I only care about this question: Is he a good GM now?


He was going to have a severe learning curve given his lack of experience and his youth.

welsh texan
01-05-2014, 02:04 PM
As he was implying that he only took the job to leave PSU it is a valid observation. He was also wanted this season by the Lions and Vikings so he had options

Not really, he would obviously want to get out of PSU at the first good opportunity, I'd say he showed excellent judgement to stay on another year at PSU and avoid the Browns' regime change.

He was pretty much signed by the time any other NFL HC GIGS came up as well.

I think the Texans played a blinder by firing Kubiak early and putting themselves at the head of the queue, they went out and got their favourite candidate lets just hope they made the right choice.

I think the real reason that Rick Smith avoided the chop is because the Texans top brass felt that Kubiak had too much control I've the draft process and Rick Smith was marginalised in that department, this is backed up by the leak earlier in the season which said as much.

McNair knows better than anyone on this forum exactly how our draft board looked each year from the FO, and how that was affected by what Kubiak wanted. He also knows who it was that decided guys like Jacoby, Holliday, Chris jones etc were allowed to leave and be productive elsewhere, and why our coaching staff wasn't capable of getting production out of them here.

Rick Smith still being around would lead me to believe that a lot of the issues with talent on our roster aren't his doing.

houstonspartan
01-05-2014, 03:29 PM
Not really, he would obviously want to get out of PSU at the first good opportunity, I'd say he showed excellent judgement to stay on another year at PSU and avoid the Browns' regime change.



He was pretty much signed by the time any other NFL HC GIGS came up as well.



I think the Texans played a blinder by firing Kubiak early and putting themselves at the head of the queue, they went out and got their favourite candidate lets just hope they made the right choice.



I think the real reason that Rick Smith avoided the chop is because the Texans top brass felt that Kubiak had too much control I've the draft process and Rick Smith was marginalised in that department, this is backed up by the leak earlier in the season which said as much.



McNair knows better than anyone on this forum exactly how our draft board looked each year from the FO, and how that was affected by what Kubiak wanted. He also knows who it was that decided guys like Jacoby, Holliday, Chris jones etc were allowed to leave and be productive elsewhere, and why our coaching staff wasn't capable of getting production out of them here.



Rick Smith still being around would lead me to believe that a lot of the issues with talent on our roster aren't his doing.


Yep. Marciano getting fired 2 seconds after Kubaik told me all I need to know. It's likely that the big bosses wanted Marciano gone a while ago, but Kubiak wouldn't allow it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Playoffs
01-21-2014, 06:10 PM
tweets read bottom-to-top....

James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN
#Texans GM Rick Smith said he's seeing everything he saw in Bill O'Brien during interview process here at #SeniorBowl. Hard work, inovative

Rick Smith said with 1st pick in each rd, picking the best player available is what #Texans plan to do. Added it adds flexibility in draft 2

Rick Smith said the HC experience Romeo Crennel has is something BOB will be able to constantly draw from. RS called RC "Special". #Texans

Don't be surprised if #Texans and Bill O'Brien don't hire an OC.

"it starts with the coaches & coaching staff & we're working to put that whole thing together." - RS. #Texans have OL, OC spots left.

"We've got a lot of things to do to correct what happened to us last year." - #Texans GM Rick Smith at #SeniorBowl

steelbtexan
01-21-2014, 06:20 PM
tweets read bottom-to-top....

James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN


One of those things on the Texans to do list should be the firing of Rick Smith.

The Pencil Neck
01-21-2014, 06:47 PM
One of those things on the Texans to do list should be the firing of Rick Smith.

As long as OB is innovative about it.

aussie_texan
01-21-2014, 07:12 PM
i have never heard of a team without an OC. has it ever happened before?

surely it can't be true and we hire someone

Playoffs
01-21-2014, 07:37 PM
i have never heard of a team with an OC. has it ever happened before?

surely it can't be true and we hire someoneGood question, don't have an answer.

OB will hire/appoint an OC and create a chain of command after whatever period of time he needs to feel his OC is trained in his style & he trusts his playcalling. But I kind of appreciate the honesty of, "I'm functionally the OC right now, not going to hang a title on some guy just for appearances."

houstonspartan
01-21-2014, 07:51 PM
Good question, don't have an answer.

OB will hire/appoint an OC and create a chain of command after whatever period of time he needs to feel his OC is trained in his style & he trusts his playcalling. But I kind of appreciate the honesty of, "I'm functionally the OC right now, not going to hang a title on some guy just for appearances."


Agree, but I'm a little worried about the whole "struggling to transition into head coaching duties while also calling plays."

Kubiak was lousy at juggling head coaching and playcalling duties. But I guess I'll give O'Brien the benefit of the doubt that he has an elevated skill set.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

The Pencil Neck
01-21-2014, 07:53 PM
i have never heard of a team with an OC. has it ever happened before?

surely it can't be true and we hire someone

I think the Patriots have done this. I think there was a period after Josh McDaniel's left where OB was calling the plays but he was not the "Offensive Coordinator".

houstonspartan
01-21-2014, 08:06 PM
I think the Patriots have done this. I think there was a period after Josh McDaniel's left where OB was calling the plays but he was not the "Offensive Coordinator".


Ah ok. Think I get it now. There may be someone else on staff who could eventually transition into playcalling. Ok that makes sense, somewhat.


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aussie_texan
01-21-2014, 08:30 PM
I think the Patriots have done this. I think there was a period after Josh McDaniel's left where OB was calling the plays but he was not the "Offensive Coordinator".

thats interesting. thanks

aussie_texan
01-21-2014, 08:31 PM
Good question, don't have an answer.

OB will hire/appoint an OC and create a chain of command after whatever period of time he needs to feel his OC is trained in his style & he trusts his playcalling. But I kind of appreciate the honesty of, "I'm functionally the OC right now, not going to hang a title on some guy just for appearances."

his certainly a different coach than we are used to. can't wait for training camp

Dutchrudder
01-21-2014, 08:49 PM
Did the Texans ever have a ln OC under Kubiak? Dennison could have been a blowup doll and made the same impact on the team.

JB
01-21-2014, 09:30 PM
Did the Texans ever have a ln OC under Kubiak? Dennison could have been a blowup doll and made the same impact on the team.

yeah that showed in the last quarter of the season

HOU-TEX
01-22-2014, 10:01 AM
I thought I'd read somewhere that we were eying George Godsey, TE coach for the Pats?

Do we have a QB coach yet? I mean, is OB going to coach QBs and run the offense?

Just a personal observation, but I think this cat might be taking on too much all at one time.

Thorn
01-22-2014, 10:19 AM
Did the Texans ever have a ln OC under Kubiak? Dennison could have been a blowup doll and made the same impact on the team.

A blowup doll might have helped. LOL

Lucky
01-22-2014, 01:54 PM
Did the Texans ever have a ln OC under Kubiak? Dennison could have been a blowup doll and made the same impact on the team.
I thought the rushing attack greatly improved under Dennison. But with Kubiak gone, it was clear Dennison knew squat about the passing game.

Dutchrudder
01-22-2014, 02:11 PM
I thought the rushing attack greatly improved under Dennison. But with Kubiak gone, it was clear Dennison knew squat about the passing game.

I dunno how much he had to do with it. I think Duane Brown becoming a solid LT had a lot to do with it, and so did bringing in Wade Smith. We still had Mike Brisiel at the time too, Winston at RT and Myers has always been the center. We still had Vonta for another year, before moving Casey into the FB role. And of course, the biggest X factor was Arian Foster coming alive.

I'm not sure how much can be attributed to Dennison. I mean, what did he really change? Did our ZBS change significantly or at all? Did he call the running plays? I really didn't notice much of a difference in the running plays being called, it always seemed rather vanilla to me. We just had really good run-blocking from our o-line at the time, but then we lost our RG and RT and it all went to hell.

b0ng
01-22-2014, 02:40 PM
I dunno how much he had to do with it. I think Duane Brown becoming a solid LT had a lot to do with it, and so did bringing in Wade Smith. We still had Mike Brisiel at the time too, Winston at RT and Myers has always been the center. We still had Vonta for another year, before moving Casey into the FB role. And of course, the biggest X factor was Arian Foster coming alive.

I'm not sure how much can be attributed to Dennison. I mean, what did he really change? Did our ZBS change significantly or at all? Did he call the running plays? I really didn't notice much of a difference in the running plays being called, it always seemed rather vanilla to me. We just had really good run-blocking from our o-line at the time, but then we lost our RG and RT and it all went to hell.

Dennison got here in 2010 and that was Fosters first big "holy ****" year and it basically continued until 2013 when everybody died. You can give all the credit to Foster (I'm sure some fans on this board will disagree) or Dennison or Kubiak, but when Dennison arrived, the run game came alive.

It was pretty obvious that when Kyle S. left the passing game took a bit of a hit, but when Dennison came in the running game took a huge leap in usage and efficiency. The best running team we really had prior to Dennison was in 2008 when Slaton had his one good year (And even then, we still had problems with short distance running).

infantrycak
01-22-2014, 03:04 PM
Dennison got here in 2010 and that was Fosters first big "holy ****" year and it basically continued until 2013 when everybody died. You can give all the credit to Foster (I'm sure some fans on this board will disagree) or Dennison or Kubiak, ...

Or you can not give all of the credit to any of them because how easy is this?

...but when Foster arrived, the run game came alive.

Dutchrudder
01-22-2014, 03:39 PM
Dennison got here in 2010 and that was Fosters first big "holy ****" year and it basically continued until 2013 when everybody died. You can give all the credit to Foster (I'm sure some fans on this board will disagree) or Dennison or Kubiak, but when Dennison arrived, the run game came alive.

It was pretty obvious that when Kyle S. left the passing game took a bit of a hit, but when Dennison came in the running game took a huge leap in usage and efficiency. The best running team we really had prior to Dennison was in 2008 when Slaton had his one good year (And even then, we still had problems with short distance running).

My problem with that is that Foster played the last 3 games in 09 and was clearly up and coming as a starting RB. Just two years prior we had Slaton running for 1200+ yards and 10 TDs and it looked like we had our starting RB for years to come. Then he got injured, and we went through a few worthless guys in 09 until Foster showed his stuff at the end of the season. He was averaging nearly 5 YPC in those games too, so it's not like our system was completely broken.

I think we just lacked talent at RB in 2009, Christ Brown was washed up, and Ryan (can't remember his last name) were JAGs. So I'm not sure it was so much the system as it was the RB's vision and speed.

ChampionTexan
01-22-2014, 04:08 PM
... Just two years prior we had Slaton running for 1200+ yards and 10 TDs and it looked like we had our starting RB for years to come. Then he got injured, and we went through a few worthless guys in 09 until Foster showed his stuff at the end of the season. He was averaging nearly 5 YPC in those games too, so it's not like our system was completely broken.



The reality is that during Kubiak's first four seasons, we had one year where we finished in the top half of the league in rushing yards, and that was 13th. The Texans finished in the top 10 in rushing yards each of Dennison's 3 years here. I find it to be extremely believable that even with Arian's presence, Dennison elevated the run game compared to what it was previously and what it otherwise would have been.

On a YPC basis, Ben Tate, Justin Forsett, and Derrick Ward all had better seasons under Dennison than Slaton's best season in the NFL. Granted, the latter 2 were with limited carries, but both were at 50 carries or more, and both posted the best seasons of their careers (on a YPC basis) under Dennison.

eriadoc
01-22-2014, 04:34 PM
... and Ryan (can't remember his last name) ...

Moats. Wish I didn't remember that.

Also, every time I see this thread with new posts in it, I click it, hopeful that Rick Smith has been fired. Please stop tormenting me! :D

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 09:36 AM
I thought the rushing attack greatly improved under Dennison.

So the OC does more than just call plays?



Interesting.

thunderkyss
01-23-2014, 09:38 AM
The reality is that during Kubiak's first four seasons, we had one year where we finished in the top half of the league in rushing yards, and that was 13th. The Texans finished in the top 10 in rushing yards each of Dennison's 3 years here. I find it to be extremely believable that even with Arian's presence, Dennison elevated the run game compared to what it was previously and what it otherwise would have been.

.

I agree.. before Dennison got here, Kubiak gave up on the run way too easy. If we were down by 1 point with 3 quarters to go, he was airing it out.

steelbtexan
01-23-2014, 09:59 AM
Moats. Wish I didn't remember that.

Also, every time I see this thread with new posts in it, I click it, hopeful that Rick Smith has been fired. Please stop tormenting me! :D

With Pioli signing on with Atlanta it looks like Slick Rick is here to stay.

Playoffs
02-01-2014, 03:10 PM
SportsHutch @SportsHutch
@taniaganguli How are Texans front office opportunities under Rick Smith viewed now by outside executives after recent purge?

@taniaganguli: One question I've heard bandied about centers around who actually has the power. Some around the league believe there will be more infiltration from former members of the Patriots organization. Others wonder how secure Smith's position is and whether O'Brien's power will increase in personnel matters, even though Texans owner Bob McNair has put his full public support behind Smith more than once.

paycheck71
02-02-2014, 12:07 AM
SportsHutch @SportsHutch


@taniaganguli: One question I've heard bandied about centers around who actually has the power. Some around the league believe there will be more infiltration from former members of the Patriots organization. Others wonder how secure Smith's position is and whether O'Brien's power will increase in personnel matters, even though Texans owner Bob McNair has put his full public support behind Smith more than once.

I wonder what her user name on TT is. :kitten:

thunderkyss
02-02-2014, 06:17 AM
I wonder what her user name on TT is. :kitten:

Probably spells Texan with an "i"





:kitten:

gafftop
02-05-2014, 09:33 PM
The GM has to be concerned with the long term view of the team. Rick has been year to year worried about saving his job.

See Morey for Rockets he built up talent and used them as chips to continuously make the Rockets a force. Smith just rents his players or overpays for others. (See Reed, Schaub, and others)

I can hear it now " Rick Smith just can't improve this team because of the cap."
Guess what Smith is the reason the Texans are in this situation.

McNair thinks this team is much more talented than it really is. That is the main reason I guess McNair hasn't gotten rid of Smith. Seriously Smith is the person in the brain trust with the most football knowledge on this organization? We are still drowning then.

See his resume and highlights
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/st...3-5f875710e9b2

Schaub, Yates, Brooks Reed, Mercilus, trading DeMeco, KJ, and Crick are mentioned as a few of his GREAT moves in his resune. SERIOUSLY!!!!?????

I think Hopkins is average at best. Really does nothing special. Makes spectacular catches every once in a while because he doesn't have the speed or quickness to get separation.

I am still pissed because I see at BEST intermittent success for this franchise.

Kind of like "Even a blind hog finds an acorn" I think sums up our time with Smith in charge.

Also don't like snakes. The right thing was for Smith to fall on the sword also instead of using it to stab Kubiak.

If he was really GM material, we would not be asking what he did all this time. He would have taken over and not allowed this team to be in its current situation. A real GM would have stood up and said NO instead of just going along. If he "was" responsible for the talent/situation this team is in then he should not be here. Whatever the situation, he was a part of the brain trust that put this team in this situation.

How is he still hear?

Just my opinion as always.

Hottoddie
02-07-2014, 02:21 AM
never mind

Dutchrudder
02-07-2014, 04:49 PM
How is he still hear?



He convinced Bob McNair that he was the main reason the Texans picked JJ Watt. That's it. All the other stuff has been blamed on others, like Ed Reed was mostly the medical staff's fault, etc etc... Watt is the only reason Rick is still employed, but Rick is going to have to do really well in this draft to keep hang onto his position next year.

TheIronDuke
02-07-2014, 05:05 PM
He convinced Bob McNair that he was the main reason the Texans picked JJ Watt. That's it. All the other stuff has been blamed on others, like Ed Reed was mostly the medical staff's fault, etc etc... Watt is the only reason Rick is still employed, but Rick is going to have to do really well in this draft to keep hang onto his position next year.

You think he's actually going to have to draft players who can contribute this year? Because that pretty much never happens. I also can't believe a former DB can't find a good DB to save his own life. Rick Smith is a moron.

Norg
02-08-2014, 12:46 PM
I still say Rick smith is one of the reasons this team went 2-14 and is in the situation we are in now so why keep that around ..???? I hope Mcnair is not dumb enough to keep him around just cuz hes a family member now ..??????????????// o boy ..... if that's the case then this franchise is pretty much Doomed for a while then

ObsiWan
02-10-2014, 06:22 PM
You think he's actually going to have to draft players who can contribute this year? Because that pretty much never happens. I also can't believe a former DB can't find a good DB to save his own life. Rick Smith is a moron.

Looking at this definition of a GM's purpose on a team, if you fire the GM without firing the sucky scouting department, you haven't accomplished a dang thing...

In the NFL, the general manager is the highest standing employee in the teamís personnel department.

He answers directly to the owner and has final veto power on all player-related decisions the team makes. Job responsibilities include hiring the head coach, building the remainder of the personnel department staff, coordinating the rubric for scouting college prospects and compiling the team's roster in accordance to the NFLís salary cap.

Clearly, the general manager canít possibly handle all of these tasks personally. He divvies up the labor amongst his other front office staffers, but the general manager ultimately is accountable for all of the teamís personnel decisions.

When a team lands a Hall of Fame quarterback like Peyton Manning (http://bleacherreport.com/peyton-manning) in the draft, it wonít be the lead scouts who are recognized and attributed with the home run selection: Itís the general manager.

Conversely, when a team drafts a bust like Ryan Leaf, the scouts who propped him up and recommended the selection are not held to the fire, itís the general manager.

General managers are starting to receive more public attribution for the essential role they play in an NFL team's success, but that praise comes at a price. At the conclusion of the 2012 season, six general managers were fired, and with Carolina firing theirs during the regular season, the total number of axed general mangers in 2012 was seven.

thunderkyss
02-12-2014, 10:05 PM
http://media.culturemap.com/crop/3a/b7/800x600/News-Shelby-Tiffany-Smith-Rick-Smith-January-2014_222353.jpg

Norg
02-13-2014, 02:44 AM
dis seems like a good time to bust out

http://i43.tinypic.com/r1c31g.jpg

right now it seems kinda like rick smith like Murked Kubes just to gain MORE POWER !!!

in 3 years who do u think will have more power around here O brien or RIck ..????? I would think in a few years BOB would want full control over everything kinda like kubes had and bring in his own Front office

and I see rick is spending his off season time right ..... isn't this supposed to be the most busy time for the FO and GM ..???

ObsiWan
02-13-2014, 03:51 PM
http://media.culturemap.com/crop/3a/b7/800x600/News-Shelby-Tiffany-Smith-Rick-Smith-January-2014_222353.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_ZtV-KpH4DZ5giDrl4EMF9Yy_9-7rf7IyLbAjvH_4dUKJsyr18Q

And they say Rick Smith can't land good talent...

Playoffs
02-19-2014, 11:52 AM
:hmmm:

Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock
IMO the Texans 2014 OL would have looked like LT-Brown, LG-Brooks, C-Myers/Jones, RG-DeCastro, RT-Quessenberry. That concludes What Ifs.

Texans went on to draft Whitney Mercilus. IF Houston was able to get DeCastro, they would have a perfect line for Zone/Man concepts.

2012 draft flashback: In 2012 Houston tried to trade up w/ Detroit to acquire David DeCastro. The Lions decided they rather draft Riley Reiff

steelbtexan
02-20-2014, 12:45 AM
http://media.culturemap.com/crop/3a/b7/800x600/News-Shelby-Tiffany-Smith-Rick-Smith-January-2014_222353.jpg



Slick Rick at work

No wonder he stinks as a GM. He's got other things on his mind.

Is Slick at the combine?

Playoffs
02-21-2014, 01:10 PM
Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith
#Texans are not involved in contract extension talks with J.J. Watt. Discussions are still internal among Texans at this point, Smith said

#Texans' Smith cautioned taking a player based too much off need can be dangerous in the end. #NFL

"Need" will be a factor for #Texans at No. 1. Talent trumps all, though, Smith said. #NFL

#Texans have internally discussed becoming a tougher team, Smith said. Definitely a focus under O'Brien. #NFL

#Texans' Smith said Bob McNair will not pressure team to draft local (Johnny Manziel). Will simply make best pick. #NFL

#Texans GM Rick Smith said team is open to trading No. 1 pick. Won't be boxed in. #NFL

#Texans' Rick Smith said No. 1 pick is "not narrowed down" to a few players at this point. Still in early evaluation process. #NFL

#Texans' Rick Smith: "We've had to be honest. It's been tough to look at our team" after 2-14 season. #NFL

Rick Smith time ... #Texans
Drew Dougherty ‏@DoughertyDrew
"He's a colorful, confident guy."- #Texans GM Rick Smith on Johnny Manziel.

"A lot of it's projection, a lot of it's risk assessment."- #Texans GM Rick Smith on the Draft.

"We are open to all possibilities."- #Texans GM Rick Smith on whether or not team is open to trading top pick.
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
Rick Smith said he doesn't anticipate using the franchise tag. #texans

Playoffs
02-23-2014, 09:36 PM
Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock
Chris Mortensen reports that Bill O'Brien told him that the media is focusing on the top 3 QBs, but they dont have to draft one in the 1st.

Rick Smith on Johnny Manziel saying the Texans better draft him "Johnny's a colorful player. He did some really spectacular things in CFB"

...will be & how well & how successful he will be in our league, that dictates where you'll take the guy."

Rick Smith almost poetically "It's a futures projection. To the degree that you can be clear about what you think the guy's ability....

Smith cont'd "we are not going to take a quarterback because we want to hitch ourselves to a new regime. "

On O'Brien hitching himself to a young QB - "I know that we want effective play out of the position. We will evaluate all of these players..

On talent on the team - Smith says "Well there's talent, but we were 2-14....but what we did not do last year was play well collectively"

On Arian Foster being back by Training Camp-"Yeah, yeah he's doing well. His rehab is going well. All indications now is that he'll be fine"

On #1 pick - "it is a valuable place to be, it gives you the opportunity, multiple times to pos urself to take the best player on the board"

Nice 1-on-1 interview on Total Access with Texans' GM Rick Smith.

Nitrofish
04-14-2014, 02:12 PM
With the clock ticking, and Rick Smith the only remaining person from the previous regime. What are your thoughts about Mr. Smith, and the likelihood that he could suffer the same fate as Casserly did?

Outside of this message board you do not really hear positive or negative comments about Rick Smith, at least I don't. Having said that, I just had to share this gem from "Mike Stembridge" which I came across while reading posts on FB.

So let's just try something here, for a just a few minutes of our precious time, minus over-whelming mountains of emotion and sports media pessimism. Everyone willing? Okay?

The first round is the only one that we truly have absolute control over. After it others can pick in ways we never even imagined. The only round that's completely predictable is the first, and that makes it the most important one. We need a quarterback, despite the emotion, despite the media hype, despite how much we like which ones, or not, we still need a good or great quarterback on our team.

We should prudently pick a quarterback in the first round and then pick up all the pieces in the remaining rounds, because that's definitively our greatest need. We have to take all the seconds, and hand-me-downs, from whatever might even be left over from the pouncing, grabbing, feeding wolves, or other teams, after the first round concludes. Then in our remaining rounds we should act swiftly to build the rest of our team around the quarterback. We get the quarterback, first, so that we can concentrate, breathe a nice sigh of relief, and pounce on whatever's left to feed upon in the remaining ten picks distributed throughout the seven rounds of the draft(our seven standard, or regular, rounds, plus the four compensatory, or extra, picks GM Rick Smith earned us).

We should come away simply stellar, and smelling like a rose, due to the fact that thanks to Texans General Manager Rick Smith's hard work behind the scenes, we still have ten whole picks, subsequent to our first one, in the draft. He did that by controversially shedding older, and higher paid, players, and it was a brilliant strategy that he keenly utilized for the team's, and the fans', great benefit. -Mike Stembridge

Now that is some Rick Smith love right there.

Your thoughts?

The Pencil Neck
04-14-2014, 02:33 PM
Your thoughts?

Just because we have a bunch of picks doesn't mean that Rick Smith has done a great job. There are other teams, like the Jags, who have just as many picks as we do... and they didn't even get any compensatory picks.

Secondly, I disagree that you pick a QB at 1-1 because you've got a need for a starting QB and you have your pick of the litter at that spot. Just because you pick what you hope is the best QB in a draft of sub-standard QB doesn't mean that you're going to be set at QB for any period of time. That sort of thinking didn't work out well for the Raiders (Jamarcus Russell.)

No. You have to pick the best player that you think is going to make the most improvement to your team. If that's a QB, great. If not, great.

When it comes to Rick Smith, I don't really know one way or another how good he is at his job. I don't know which actions rest solely on him and which actions were shared and which actions were someone else. I don't know if he's even going to be our GM after the draft.

And, frankly, I don't care.

I don't care who our coach is. I don't care who our GM is. All I care about is having a dynasty that wins lots and lots of Super Bowls. If Rick Smith can help deliver that, great. If not, get him out of here. If OB can help deliver that, great. If not, get him out of here.

Playoffs
04-14-2014, 02:46 PM
Your thoughts?

Who is Mike Stembridge?

steelbtexan
04-14-2014, 04:34 PM
To answer the OP's question, Smith should suffer the same fat as Casserly, but he wont. Smith knows how to play the game. Unfortunately the game he knows how to play has nothing to do with being competent at what should be his job. (Finding the best talent available. See: his track record picking his college position DB's)

JB
04-14-2014, 04:37 PM
To answer the OP's question, Smith should suffer the same fat as Casserly, but he wont. Smith knows how to play the game. Unfortunately the game he knows how to play has nothing to do with being competent at what should be his job. (Finding the best talent available. See: his track record picking his college position DB's)


You do know that he isn't the actual scout pushing the player right? :kitten:

steelbtexan
04-14-2014, 04:48 PM
You do know that he isn't the actual scout pushing the player right? :kitten:

I do know he's a backstabber, you know the type of person I want nothing to do with. Maybe he should be doing more scouting, you know like Ozzie/Schneider/Thompson etc.... It seems like he has atleast decided to attend the combine/pro days so there appears to be improvement on Smith's part. Funny how when having your job on the line makes you work harder.

He's not a scout, but he hires the scouts and has a voice in the war room. He apparently has something to do with cap management. (See: Dunta Robinson) The cap was a mess this offseason. You would think that he had a hand in re-signing Schaub/Foster/Cushing. Bottom line for me is the Texans org/fans can and should do much better than Rick Smith as GM.

Where would you rank Smith in relation to the job other GM's do in the NFL.

Pitbull 56
04-14-2014, 06:04 PM
I always thought Tricky Rick should have been fired right along with Kubes. McNair should have Smith on a very short leash.

infantrycak
04-14-2014, 06:23 PM
To answer the OP's question, Smith should suffer the same fat as Casserly, but he wont. Smith knows how to play the game. Unfortunately the game he knows how to play has nothing to do with being competent at what should be his job. (Finding the best talent available. See: his track record picking his college position DB's)

We got Watt instead of Patrick Peterson. You sure you want to hang your hat on that?

Pitbull 56
04-14-2014, 06:30 PM
We got Watt instead of Patrick Peterson. You sure you want to hang your hat on that?

I thinking drafting JJ was more of Wade's doing than Rick or Kubes.

infantrycak
04-14-2014, 06:35 PM
I thinking drafting JJ was more of Wade's doing than Rick or Kubes.

You can think that but the reports are the Texans had Peterson targeted and then got jumped on the deal. Then as the story goes they contemplated making the same trade to take Aldon Smith and decided against it and ended up taking Watt. So to the extent you want to guess Wade was influential it sounds like Watt was his 3rd choice.

steelbtexan
04-14-2014, 06:54 PM
You can think that but the reports are the Texans had Peterson targeted and then got jumped on the deal. Then as the story goes they contemplated making the same trade to take Aldon Smith and decided against it and ended up taking Watt. So to the extent you want to guess Wade was influential it sounds like Watt was his 3rd choice.

I don't recall the Texans trying to trade up for Peterson. I do recall the Lions trying to trade up.

Rumor had it at the time McNair promised Wade the 1st rd pick when he gave him the job. Wade wanted Aldon Smith, he was gone and Wade settled for Watt.

What are your thoughts?

infantrycak
04-14-2014, 07:49 PM
I don't recall the Texans trying to trade up for Peterson. I do recall the Lions trying to trade up.

Rumor had it at the time McNair promised Wade the 1st rd pick when he gave him the job. Wade wanted Aldon Smith, he was gone and Wade settled for Watt.

What are your thoughts?

There was speculation about Wade. I never heard anything that even rose to the level of rumor.

This was a report someone posted just a few months ago toward the tail of the season. It was that the Texans had a deal in place with Atlanta to take Peterson but the Cardinals took him. There was then a huddle on whether to still do the deal and grab Aldon Smith prior to San Fran and they decided not to (with Smith saying no) and ended up remaining in place and taking JJ.

Now the two are not mutually exclusive but if Wade had the 1st round pick control then Peterson was his top choice.

My net thoughts on it are we have no real idea what goes on or the power dynamics and should stop acting like we do.

DocBar
04-14-2014, 09:09 PM
There was speculation about Wade. I never heard anything that even rose to the level of rumor.

This was a report someone posted just a few months ago toward the tail of the season. It was that the Texans had a deal in place with Atlanta to take Peterson but the Cardinals took him. There was then a huddle on whether to still do the deal and grab Aldon Smith prior to San Fran and they decided not to (with Smith saying no) and ended up remaining in place and taking JJ.

Now the two are not mutually exclusive but if Wade had the 1st round pick control then Peterson was his top choice.

My net thoughts on it are we have no real idea what goes on or the power dynamics and should stop acting like we do.:goodpost:

All the speculation on the power structure between the coaching staff and front office has gotten stale.

steelbtexan
04-14-2014, 09:19 PM
There was speculation about Wade. I never heard anything that even rose to the level of rumor.

This was a report someone posted just a few months ago toward the tail of the season. It was that the Texans had a deal in place with Atlanta to take Peterson but the Cardinals took him. There was then a huddle on whether to still do the deal and grab Aldon Smith prior to San Fran and they decided not to (with Smith saying no) and ended up remaining in place and taking JJ.

Now the two are not mutually exclusive but if Wade had the 1st round pick control then Peterson was his top choice.

My net thoughts on it are we have no real idea what goes on or the power dynamics and should stop acting like we do.

I keep up with Texans news very closely and heard none of this. Did you hear this news from an inside source?

What fun would a MB be without speculation. I think that we can agree that whatever the power structure was in the last regime was it didn't work. Hopefully they change that.

thunderkyss
04-14-2014, 09:23 PM
This was a report someone posted just a few months ago toward the tail of the season. It was that the Texans had a deal in place with Atlanta to take Peterson but the Cardinals took him. There was then a huddle on whether to still do the deal and grab Aldon Smith prior to San Fran and they decided not to (with Smith saying no) and ended up remaining in place and taking JJ.

Now the two are not mutually exclusive but if Wade had the 1st round pick control then Peterson was his top choice.

My net thoughts on it are we have no real idea what goes on or the power dynamics and should stop acting like we do.

I remember the report about the trade for Peterson. I also remember the write up about the Flacco/Brown deal. Between those two, I think we should be able to form some idea of the power dynamic.

& with Kubiak saying Rick picks them & Gary coaches them, it's not the mystery the Smith haters would have you believe. Rick picks them, Gary coaches them, or cuts them.

Now when the Texans pick comes up, if Bill Kollar screams from the back of the room, "Pick Clowney." that doesn't mean it was his pick. If later we found out that McNair wanted Manziel, & OB wanted Tom Savage... that's still Smith's pick.

Duane Brown was Gibbs man, but he couldn't have stopped Rick Smith from trading down if he wanted to. Kubiak couldn't have stopped Rick Smith if he wanted to. If he'd have traded down & missed on Duane Brown, they'd have left that war room saying they got the guy they targeted & attribute it to the waterboy, or the LBs coach, or the TEs coach, or maybe even the HC (though I doubt it), but it was Rick's pick.

If Rick Smith keeps bringing players in & Gary keeps cutting them & those players continue to have some production for successful teams... it's hard to pin the "talentless" team problem on the GM. Looking at our roster is only part of the equation.

Texan_Bill
04-14-2014, 09:25 PM
You can think that but the reports are the Texans had Peterson targeted and then got jumped on the deal. Then as the story goes they contemplated making the same trade to take Aldon Smith and decided against it and ended up taking Watt. So to the extent you want to guess Wade was influential it sounds like Watt was his 3rd choice.

Thank G*D! No matter the thought process or who ultimately pulled the trigger or who had the final say, The Texans got that one right, whether by skill, luck or indifference they nailed that one!!!

DocBar
04-14-2014, 09:33 PM
Thank G*D! No matter the thought process or who ultimately pulled the trigger or who had the final say, The Texans got that one right, whether by skill, luck or indifference they nailed that one!!!
Amen, brother!!! By hook or by crook. LOL

thunderkyss
04-14-2014, 09:33 PM
I keep up with Texans news very closely and heard none of this. Did you hear this news from an inside source?

What fun would a MB be without speculation. I think that we can agree that whatever the power structure was in the last regime was it didn't work. Hopefully they change that.

When the 2011 NFL draft unfolded, no one truly knew what newly acquired defensive coordinator Wade Phillips would want as his first pick. There were rumors that he wanted Aldon Smith, but we recently found out that General Manager Rick Smith had a trade in place (http://www.stateofthetexans.com/blog/2013/12/05/player-spotlight-j-j-watt/) to get Patrick Peterson.

Googled: "Texans trade rumors patrick peterson aldon smith" that's one of the articles that showed up.

Texan_Bill
04-14-2014, 09:46 PM
Amen, brother!!! By hook or by crook. LOL
Right on! ;)

infantrycak
04-14-2014, 10:07 PM
What fun would a MB be without speculation.

No problem with speculation. The problem comes in when people start acting like their speculation is fact.

Playoffs
04-14-2014, 10:26 PM
You can think that but the reports are the Texans had Peterson targeted and then got jumped on the deal. Then as the story goes they contemplated making the same trade to take Aldon Smith and decided against it and ended up taking Watt...

Yes, Deepi posted such on HT.com in January: http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/BWTB-Drafting-JJ-Watt/3844ef4d-e27c-4ba8-9dcf-ae3eab82026c

And I copied it onto TT here: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2281450&highlight=peterson#post2281450

dalemurphy
04-15-2014, 10:54 AM
I thinking drafting JJ was more of Wade's doing than Rick or Kubes.

In the world where we see 10 seven round mock drafts per day... in February, it shouldn't be surprising that fans have such a simplistic view of the NFL draft.

GMs aren't scouts! There job is to collect information from all the available sources and then make the best decisions for the organization. Every player ever drafted by the Texans have had a strong advocate (either coach or scout), pressing Smith to draft him. More important to understand, though, is that there are hundreds of players that some of the Texan coaches were raving about that did not get drafted by Smith.

Nitrofish
04-15-2014, 06:45 PM
Who is Mike Stembridge?

Just some dude on FB who obviously loves him some Rick Smif! Was not agreeing with him, just thought some of you would find that analysis as funny as I did.

So glad the Texans blinked on the Aldon Smith trade. Why does a guy who has the world in the palm his hand, do something as dumb as that?

Norg
04-16-2014, 03:17 AM
rick brought in Ed reed nufff said

and didn't even have the power to at least let Peyton manning visit Houston when he was doing his cross country tour

leebigeztx
04-16-2014, 04:07 AM
Every gm has hits and misses and smith has his hits and flops. Steelb has an agenda and brings names of other gms to prove a point and that's cool. I wanna know if smith gets the blame for okoye,who gets the credit for duane brown,cushing,watt? Who gets the credit for arian foster and trading a 5th for myers? See, that game is a game. What's so great about the green bay roster? Aaron Rodgers. He went down and what was their record before he went down till he returned? See, all it takes is nabbing a franchise caliber qb to change the perception of a gm. After the ravens superbowl in 2000,how many playoff games did they win in the next 8 yrs? In fact how many times did they make the playoffs until they drafted flacco? Was ozzie a great gm when he drafted travis taylor and kyle boller in the 1st rd. What about when he signed elvis from kansas city?

ObsiWan
04-16-2014, 01:24 PM
No problem with speculation. The problem comes in when people start acting like their speculation is fact.
Well, I believe I said up front that I was theorizing/guessing on how things worked on draft day. As ThreeToed Pete used to say, "we don't know, we weren't in the room"

ObsiWan
04-16-2014, 01:33 PM
rick brought in Ed reed nufff said

and didn't even have the power to at least let Peyton manning visit Houston when he was doing his cross country tour
I think it was established quite a while back that Rick was told to go fetch Ed Reed by Uncle Bob McNair. McNair sent Smith on this private jet to bring him to Houston.
LINK (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-am/0ap2000000152685/Texans-owner-thinks-Ed-Reed-could-toughen-up-team)

As an aside, note at the 1:00 mark where McNair himself said "...I've been preaching to our coaches that we have enough talent..." Now if McNair thinks Smith is largely responsible for gathering that talent, you should know all you need to know as to why Smith was the only one not shown the door along with Kubiak and Phillips. You may disagree with McNair's assessment, but it is what it is.

Edit: You made two contradictory statements. How can Rick Smith have the power to go fetch Ed Reed but NOT have the power to bring Peyton in for a chat? Either he has the power to grab who he wants (or at least kick the tires) or he doesn't.

dalemurphy
04-26-2014, 05:14 PM
Every gm has hits and misses and smith has his hits and flops. Steelb has an agenda and brings names of other gms to prove a point and that's cool. I wanna know if smith gets the blame for okoye,who gets the credit for duane brown,cushing,watt? Who gets the credit for arian foster and trading a 5th for myers? See, that game is a game. What's so great about the green bay roster? Aaron Rodgers. He went down and what was their record before he went down till he returned? See, all it takes is nabbing a franchise caliber qb to change the perception of a gm. After the ravens superbowl in 2000,how many playoff games did they win in the next 8 yrs? In fact how many times did they make the playoffs until they drafted flacco? Was ozzie a great gm when he drafted travis taylor and kyle boller in the 1st rd. What about when he signed elvis from kansas city?

Excellent point!

I have liked the way the organization has operated as Rick Smith's role has increased- not because they haven't made any personnel mistakes, but because they seem to have a good plan, don't panic, make thoughtful decisions, and have a long term and disciplined view for the organization. I also like the focus on collected compensatory picks, avoiding the free agent frenzy, and the willingness to let veterans go when prudent.

The Ed Reed fiasco was a mistake than many of you saw coming. All organizations make those mistakes on occasion. However, only a dozen organizations would be as quick to recognize and act on that mistake. It is that kind of football-first focus that allows an organization to be successful in the long term. Check out the NFL teams that make football decisions with a weighted concern for PR, or the ones that are stifled with inaction because of uncertainty or internal disagreement. Those are the organizations that will be fortunate to make 1 or 2 playoffs in the next decade.

ObsiWan
04-26-2014, 05:39 PM
Excellent point!

I have liked the way the organization has operated as Rick Smith's role has increased- not because they haven't made any personnel mistakes, but because they seem to have a good plan, don't panic, make thoughtful decisions, and have a long term and disciplined view for the organization. I also like the focus on collected compensatory picks, avoiding the free agent frenzy, and the willingness to let veterans go when prudent.

The Ed Reed fiasco was a mistake than many of you saw coming. All organizations make those mistakes on occasion. However, only a dozen organizations would be as quick to recognize and act on that mistake. It is that kind of football-first focus that allows an organization to be successful in the long term. Check out the NFL teams that make football decisions with a weighted concern for PR, or the ones that are stifled with inaction because of uncertainty or internal disagreement. Those are the organizations that will be fortunate to make 1 or 2 playoffs in the next decade.
I'm convinced that was a clear case of McNair playing GM and Smith was along for the ride.

DBCooper
04-26-2014, 05:55 PM
I'm convinced that was a clear case of McNair playing GM and Smith was along for the ride.

And a GM with balls would have told Bob how stupid the idea was.

(I didn't know how that one would play out, I hoped at least a season out the guy, I don't know if we got a play out of him)

thunderkyss
04-26-2014, 05:59 PM
The Ed Reed fiasco was a mistake than many of you saw coming.

Was it?

I'm not so sure. Yeah, it played out the way many said it would, but starting out 2-6 would make just about anything look like a mistake.

I didn't care if Reed wasn't healthy enough to play through the first 10 games, that's not why he was brought here. The Ed Reed move had no shot of paying off if we never reached the post season.

The Texans requested Ed Reed have surgery & the Texans "forced" Ed Reed into the starting line-up.

Let's imagine (in a GP kinda way, if you know what I mean) that Ed Reed was Rick Smith's move, instigated by our beloved owner. Also imagine (because this whole thing is based on supposition) that there's been a quite feud brewing between Kubiak & Smith (Tate taken in the second round after Kubiak "found" Foster, drafting a punt returner in Trindon Holliday, Sherrick McMannis, Shelly Smith (still in the league), trading back up for Brandon Harris, Signing Case Keenum). & it came to a head in 2014.

Can't build a team if you're not developing the talent (that others have decided to develop) you're being given.

I'm not a Rick Smith fan. I'd be happier now if he was let go after 2010 (I wanted him gone more than I wanted Kubiak gone then). But this is the way Bob wants to go & I'm willing to wait & see how OB does with Rick's picks.

Lurvinator11
04-26-2014, 09:17 PM
(in a GP kinda way, if you know what I mean)

Speaking of GP, I haven't seen him post in a while. Wonder where he has been.

steelbtexan
04-26-2014, 09:53 PM
Excellent point!

I have liked the way the organization has operated as Rick Smith's role has increased- not because they haven't made any personnel mistakes, but because they seem to have a good plan, don't panic, make thoughtful decisions, and have a long term and disciplined view for the organization. I also like the focus on collected compensatory picks, avoiding the free agent frenzy, and the willingness to let veterans go when prudent.

The Ed Reed fiasco was a mistake than many of you saw coming. All organizations make those mistakes on occasion. However, only a dozen organizations would be as quick to recognize and act on that mistake. It is that kind of football-first focus that allows an organization to be successful in the long term. Check out the NFL teams that make football decisions with a weighted concern for PR, or the ones that are stifled with inaction because of uncertainty or internal disagreement. Those are the organizations that will be fortunate to make 1 or 2 playoffs in the next decade.

Glad you like an obviously dysfunctional on the field product.

After reading this post you would think the Texans on field product lead by Smith was 14-2 last yr instead of 2-14. After last yrs rah rah posting and the fact that you chose to welch out on a bet makes me certainly devalue your opinions on all things Texans amongst other things.

thunderkyss
04-26-2014, 10:02 PM
Glad you like an obviously dysfunctional on the field product.

After reading this post you would think the Texans on field product lead by Smith was 14-2 last yr instead of 2-14. After last yrs rah rah posting and the fact that you chose to welch out on a bet makes me certainly devalue your opinions on all things Texans amongst other things.

And you'd still be complaining about Rick Smith if we were 14-2

steelbtexan
04-26-2014, 10:10 PM
And you'd still be complaining about Rick Smith if we were 14-2

How would you know that? It's never happened and probably wont be happening anytime soon. The Texans are currently the kind of org that Dale described. (A pretender) Reaching the playoffs a couple of times in a decade, getting blown out by above avg teams and then falling off of a cliff.

It's not my fault Smith is in charge of the on the field product that has been lackluster at best. But you can continue to kill the messenger, but it wont matter because of how things continue to play out with the on the field product.

thunderkyss
04-26-2014, 10:15 PM
How would you know that? It's never happened and probably wont be happening anytime soon.


I'm sure you were among those complaining when we were 12-4.



It's not my fault Smith is in charge of the on the field product that has been lackluster at best. But you can continue to kill the messenger, but it wont matter because of how things continue to play out with the on the field product.

I'm with Dale, I'm happy with what this organization has done on Rick Smith's watch & I expect it to get better. Like you though, I give Rick Smith very little credit for it. I'm going to wait to see what another coach can do with the talent Rick Smith gets us.

steelbtexan
04-26-2014, 10:39 PM
I'm sure you were among those complaining when we were 12-4.




I'm with Dale, I'm happy with what this organization has done on Rick Smith's watch & I expect it to get better. Like you though, I give Rick Smith very little credit for it. I'm going to wait to see what another coach can do with the talent Rick Smith gets us.

Yes, I said the Texans weren't as good as their record. Because they always got blown out against good teams and blew HFA throughout the playoffs. They came up against a true SB contender in the playoffs and predictably got killed.

What on Smith's watch are you happy with? A couple of wild card game wins in a decade?

thunderkyss
04-26-2014, 10:45 PM
What on Smith's watch are you happy with? A couple of wild card game wins in a decade?

Does Smith's watch encompass a decade?

Since he's been here, we've had two losing seasons, two division championships, & two play off wins (or advancing to the divisional round if you prefer).

DocBar
04-26-2014, 11:34 PM
This crap will continue, regardless of HC or GM. How many people have read about the advice BOB got to " BE IN CHARGE" and will swear that every pick is his? How many will believe that Smith picks 'em and BOB coaches them up? If 2006 had been a clean break and a true house cleaning, we'd still be arguing this because of Kubiak and Smith's Denver connection.

There's not a person on this forum that has a clue about the true dynamics in the FO. Every single post on this subject is nothing more than speculation and a declaration of preference for one individual over another. With the way the Texans are ran, I doubt we'll ever know who has final say over what, especially with a Belichik disciple as HC. It'll only get muddier.

Maybe McNair should just fire Smith and either go all Jerrah Jones ( please Lord, no!!!!) or let BOB wear 3 hats. That way, we'd know who's responsible for what. As it stands, I take the conventional route. Smith drafts them, <insert HC> coaches them up. I haven't been impressed with the coaching and I have been impressed with the players that other teams pick up fro the Texans. It seems to me that coaching was more of a problem than drafting/talent. But that's just MHO.

thunderkyss
04-26-2014, 11:45 PM
This crap will continue, regardless of HC or GM. How many people have read about the advice BOB got to " BE IN CHARGE" and will swear that every pick is his? How many will believe that Smith picks 'em and BOB coaches them up?

Who cares? or better yet, what difference does it make who believes what?

The last 4 were better than the first 4, I'm looking forward to the next 4.

DocBar
04-27-2014, 01:38 AM
Who cares? or better yet, what difference does it make who believes what?

The last 4 were better than the first 4, I'm looking forward to the next 4.No difference to me.

Playoffs
04-30-2014, 07:50 PM
GM Rick Smith: “I absolutely know who I want” (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/GM-Rick-Smith-%E2%80%9CI-absolutely-know-who-I-want%E2%80%9D/2cd2c02f-0a8c-428e-ba2a-7621403cfc47)
“I absolutely know who I want,” Smith said in an interview with "Texans Huddle" on Fox Sports Southwest. “I know the guys we like. The fortunate thing about having the first pick is I’ve got the pick of the litter, so I will know exactly who I want at that point.”
...

“Now where the game is played is if there’s an opportunity to move and, in this case, obviously to move back if somebody else wants to come up to that first pick," Smith said. "Then you weigh what the opportunities are versus who the individual is that you want to take and what that value is relative to the value that somebody might be offering you. But as you move through the draft, obviously you don’t know who’s going to be picked when.”
...
“I’ve said very often that if you are able to take a player at a corresponding value and it fits a position of need, then you’ve hit the homerun," Smith said. "You’ve done a great job.”
...

“As we go and that board starts to fall, we’ve already earmarked that guys that we like, that we think will fit in our systems and we’d like to see in our locker room and the guys that we think would be good guys in our community," Smith said. "We’ve got a pretty good idea of who those men are.”

To hear the complete interview with Rick Smith, tune into "Texans Huddle," airing Wednesday at 5:30 p.m. and again Thursday at 6 p.m. on Fox Sports Southwest.*

*recheck those air times

steelbtexan
05-01-2014, 01:11 AM
GM Rick Smith: ďI absolutely know who I wantĒ (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/GM-Rick-Smith-%E2%80%9CI-absolutely-know-who-I-want%E2%80%9D/2cd2c02f-0a8c-428e-ba2a-7621403cfc47)


To hear the complete interview with Rick Smith, tune into "Texans Huddle," airing Wednesday at 5:30 p.m. and again Thursday at 6 p.m. on Fox Sports Southwest.*

*recheck those air times

Great to hear

Rick is a cagey old vet.

sandman
05-01-2014, 05:08 AM
And a GM with balls would have told Bob how stupid the idea was.

(I didn't know how that one would play out, I hoped at least a season out the guy, I don't know if we got a play out of him)

LOL at "having balls" in the corporate workplace!

Is that what you do with your boss? Have balls and tell him he has a stupid idea? I certainly don't. I like being gainfully employed.

Why do people think that because this company is a professional sports franchise, that the rules of engagement in the workplace are any different than any other company. Bob and Rick work in suits up in the fancy offices, not down in the locker room scratching their crotches with the O-line.

When your boss, especially when that boss is the company owner, has decided on a course of action that you consider "stupid", you present relevant data/facts and look to influence the situation.

Ultimately, as the owner he has the final call, and you either live with it and try to work it into a positive, or exit professionally if it is that important to you. You don't show how big a pair you have by calling him or his ideas stupid. Not if you expect to be employed for long.

ObsiWan
05-01-2014, 05:54 AM
LOL at "having balls" in the corporate workplace!

Is that what you do with your boss? Have balls and tell him he has a stupid idea? I certainly don't. I like being gainfully employed.

Why do people think that because this company is a professional sports franchise, that the rules of engagement in the workplace are any different than any other company. Bob and Rick work in suits up in the fancy offices, not down in the locker room scratching their crotches with the O-line.

When your boss, especially when that boss is the company owner, has decided on a course of action that you consider "stupid", you present relevant data/facts and look to influence the situation.

Ultimately, as the owner he has the final call, and you either live with it and try to work it into a positive, or exit professionally if it is that important to you. You don't show how big a pair you have by calling him or his ideas stupid. Not if you expect to be employed for long.

Agree with the bolded totally. If the boss still isn't persuaded by your data/facts I think you've still done your job by giving an alternative viewpoint. Its up to him/her to do something with that. Stomping out like a pouty child while telling your boss he/she is stupid only gets you unemployed and shows other folks in the industry that you're unprofessional and insubordinate. Good luck getting hired someplace else.

kingtexan
05-01-2014, 09:29 AM
Agree with the bolded totally. If the boss still isn't persuaded by your data/facts I think you've still done your job by giving an alternative viewpoint. Its up to him/her to do something with that. Stomping out like a pouty child while telling your boss he/she is stupid only gets you unemployed and shows other folks in the industry that you're unprofessional and insubordinate. Good luck getting hired someplace else.

Nailed it.

Took me into my 30's to realize that even if I was right, I could still be wrong.

steelbtexan
05-01-2014, 10:42 AM
Agree with the bolded totally. If the boss still isn't persuaded by your data/facts I think you've still done your job by giving an alternative viewpoint. Its up to him/her to do something with that. Stomping out like a pouty child while telling your boss he/she is stupid only gets you unemployed and shows other folks in the industry that you're unprofessional and insubordinate. Good luck getting hired someplace else.

But I thought McNair was a hands off owner?

Bottom line is if the owner respects his GM's opinions he will most likely go along with the GM's decisions. It seems as though McNair is totally in charge, yet never held accountable by the fanbase. (Accountable, there goes that word again)

I know that in most fans on this MB McNair can do no wrong, but his management style is the root of the Texans on field product problems. But his management style sure does make him a lot of $$$$ and that's what it's really all about isn't it?

Playoffs
05-01-2014, 04:23 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bmk1JYECMAEuCeU.jpg

5/01 Draft Presser

(tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top)

Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock
"Those things are certainily options, but I don't think I've ever done that." Rick Smith on possibility of trading veteran players on draft day.

" I tend to believe you want to give yourself as much time as you can to exhaust all of your options" Rick Smith on if he'll use the full 10 mins alloted to make selection

Rick Smith says the extra time has been good, but says he'd like to see it moved back to April.

"You eliminate need, when you value and rank players. We value & rank the board independently of need"

"There's an idea of a traditional QB in the NFL, but those 2 don't fit a specific mold." On success of Kaepernick & Wilson

"There are 2 positions that I think you can never have to many off and that's corners and tackles." Rick Smith #Texans

"I don't feel pressure....that's just my personality. I feel like we're prepared, so I'm confident." Rick Smith

"We have the opportunity to pick the best player available on our board, 3 different times(days)" Rick Smith (3 Days of the Draft)

"We have valued and ranked our board, if we stay at 1...we know who we want"

Rick Smith: On depth of the draft "I do beleive there are positions in this draft that is deep."

Rick Smith: "The vast majority of the work is done, we obviously have a week left to tweak the board"
Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
Smith says the extra time has been good for them because of the first pick. But would like to see it get moved back to April. #Texans

Rick Smith says he and OB have been agreeing on the evaluations of most prospects. He said, "I've been in football a long time... he's been in football a long time... we both know what a good football player is."

Rick Smith says over the next week they'll run scenarios for what will happen during the draft, how far they might want to move.

Smith says again that they're willing to move out of first pick. #Texans

Rick Smith says he knows the order of the #Texans board. He knows who he feels good about if they stay at 1.
Drew Dougherty ‏@DoughertyDrew
"Enlightening."- #Texans GM on the nature of conversations he's had with Defensive Coordinator Romeo Crennel.

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
At least 4 teams that I know of have inquired about top pick but checking and doing are totally different.

DX-TEX
05-01-2014, 04:45 PM
"Enlightening."-

I wonder how so?

ObsiWan
05-01-2014, 04:55 PM
"There are 2 positions that I think you can never have to many off and that's corners and tackles." Rick Smith #Texans


Sniff, sniff... smells like Robinson @ #1 to me

Troy Chapman
05-01-2014, 04:56 PM
Man I like Rick Smith but that was 20 minutes of my life just wasted away. Pancakes and especially Tania tried their best to get something out of Rick but he wasn't having any of it.

Troy Chapman
05-01-2014, 04:56 PM
Sniff, sniff... smells like Robinson @ #1 to me

Or Gilbert at #6.

Playoffs
05-01-2014, 04:58 PM
"Enlightening."- I wonder how so?

RAC educating Rick on how he runs and can run his defense -- which is new to Rick, and what kind of players/bodies he requires. Has Rick ever had a defense that lined up in 3-4 and a 4-3 in the same game?

ObsiWan
05-01-2014, 05:02 PM
But I thought McNair was a hands off owner?

Bottom line is if the owner respects his GM's opinions he will most likely go along with the GM's decisions. It seems as though McNair is totally in charge, yet never held accountable by the fanbase. (Accountable, there goes that word again)

I know that in most fans on this MB McNair can do no wrong, but his management style is the root of the Texans on field product problems. But his management style sure does make him a lot of $$$$ and that's what it's really all about isn't it?
McNair has been meddling in draft matters since he decided on David Carr for our ultimate 1-1 and has never quit meddling.

He's not on the Jerry Jones level of running the entire draft obviously, but I'm convinced that he was the reason Carr and Schaub got the contract extensions they received, that he (McNair) was the driving force behind getting Ed Reed, and that he wanted to reward Foster with a large contract for services rendered because he led the league in rushing and rushing TDs while being paid UDFA money.

Now I can't prove a word of it because they speak very fluent coach-speak over on Kirby. They all have mastered the art of making complete and very intelligent-sounding sentences that have very little concrete content.
I'm just going with my gut.

ObsiWan
05-01-2014, 05:04 PM
Or Gilbert at #6.
Or Matthews...
:kingkong:

DX-TEX
05-01-2014, 05:06 PM
RAC educating Rick on how he runs and can run his defense -- which is new to Rick, and what kind of players/bodies he requires. Has Rick ever had a defense that lined up in 3-4 and a 4-3 in the same game?

I was thinking more of "These guys suck! What was Wade thinking?"

thunderkyss
05-01-2014, 05:15 PM
Has Rick ever had a defense that lined up in 3-4 and a 4-3 in the same game?

We showed 3-4 fronts all the time with Frank Bush & Wade definitely went back & forth all the time.


Unrelated, here's a 1-1 with Rick (http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/1-on-1-GM-Rick-Smith/78610461-50ae-4bf2-b109-1f38e49a9e88)

kingtexan
05-01-2014, 05:19 PM
Sniff, sniff... smells like Robinson @ #1 to me

Rather have Matthews. He played both RT and LT, and also had to pass block for a guy who improvised. Bloodline non-withstanding I put my money on him having the best career of any OL coming out of this draft.

The Pencil Neck
05-01-2014, 05:22 PM
RAC educating Rick on how he runs and can run his defense -- which is new to Rick, and what kind of players/bodies he requires. Has Rick ever had a defense that lined up in 3-4 and a 4-3 in the same game?

Dude.

We were doing that under Wade. We just weren't running a "standard" 3-4... more of a tweaked 5-2... but technically a 3-4. Then in our nickel/dime packages, we'd frequently shift to a 4-3.

CloakNNNdagger
05-01-2014, 05:36 PM
Dude.

We were doing that under Wade. We just weren't running a "standard" 3-4... more of a tweaked 5-2... but technically a 3-4. Then in our nickel/dime packages, we'd frequently shift to a 4-3.

Not having had a "fat boy in the middle" significantly limited the effectiveness of shifting back and forth.

drs23
05-01-2014, 05:38 PM
Dude.

We were doing that under Wade. We just weren't running a "standard" 3-4... more of a tweaked 5-2... but technically a 3-4. Then in our nickel/dime packages, we'd frequently shift to a 4-3.

Yeah, that's what I thunk. Seemed to happen several times a game, every game.