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View Full Version : Mack Brown to step down this week


Stemp
12-10-2013, 02:24 PM
per insiders

Get ready for a big circus. :clown:

Playoffs
12-10-2013, 02:52 PM
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000824249/polls_GomerSurprise_1140_696117_answer_1_xlarge.jp eg

Dutchrudder
12-10-2013, 02:59 PM
Word is they are making Saban an offer he can't refuse.

Dutchrudder
12-10-2013, 03:05 PM
SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter 1m
THIS JUST IN: Texas denies report that Mack Brown will step down as Longhorns coach. Board of Regents to meet Thursday. (via @schadjoe)


lulz

bOODRO87
12-10-2013, 03:11 PM
SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter 1m
THIS JUST IN: Texas denies report that Mack Brown will step down as Longhorns coach. Board of Regents to meet Thursday. (via @schadjoe)


lulz

Haha such BS. DeLoss also said he wasn't stepping down and look what happened.

Dutchrudder
12-10-2013, 03:24 PM
I'm gonna have a good laugh if the announcement is that Mack will retire after next season.

Dutchrudder
12-10-2013, 03:36 PM
People on twitter saying stuff and things.

John Spong
Sitting with Joe Jamail at courthouse in Beaumont: "Mack Brown has not resigned and he has not been fired." @BarkingCarnival @TexasMonthly

Shannon B. Terry ‏@sbterry247 4m
There is one mad, iconic Head Coach at this moment. #understatement
"Just walked into Bobby's office. There's pages of text between the two. I have to wait and see what he puts out. He is working on something right now."

@sbterry247
I can confirm that Mack Brown & Bobby Burton have had significant dialogue after the news broke. Waiting to see what Burton reports

jaayteetx
12-10-2013, 03:39 PM
Mack to step down to become new HC of the Texans.:stirpot:

Stemp
12-10-2013, 03:42 PM
Bruce Feldman (@BFeldmanCBS) tweeted at 2:09pm - 10 Dec 13:
Mack Brown to 247: "I'm in FL recruiting. If I had decided to step down I sure wouldn't be killing myself down here." Said not stepping down


Bruce Feldman (@BFeldmanCBS) tweeted at 2:12pm - 10 Dec 13:
Just got this text from a college coach: "Great quote by Mack 'killing himself"..That's what other people call 'working'"

:lol:

Playoffs
12-10-2013, 04:03 PM
I don't think Mac will step down. I think he'll be pushed down.

Dutchrudder
12-11-2013, 01:05 AM
This whole story has been funny to watch. I have a real hard time seeing Saban leave Bama for UT, but it could happen. I think Saban is underpaid though, he should at least have some hefty escalators in his contract of like +2 million for a national championship if they are going to leave him at 5m a year. He deserves a lot more than that considering how much the school makes off the football program.

2012Champs
12-11-2013, 12:05 PM
This whole story has been funny to watch. I have a real hard time seeing Saban leave Bama for UT, but it could happen. I think Saban is underpaid though, he should at least have some hefty escalators in his contract of like +2 million for a national championship if they are going to leave him at 5m a year. He deserves a lot more than that considering how much the school makes off the football program.



While its up to bama to spend whatever they feel like at 5.5mm per year he is the highest paid already and I think the margin is pretty safe with talks of a renegotiation in the 7mm range. If you are making 50% more than the second highest guy Id say thats a pretty damn good spread

Texecutioner
12-11-2013, 12:17 PM
Getting rid of Kubiak and Mack in one year makes this a very nice December. Long time coming for both. :good:

michaelm
12-11-2013, 12:43 PM
Getting rid of Kubiak and Mack in one year makes this a very nice December. Long time coming for both. :good:

I agree, with the caveat that it all depends on who the teams choose as replacements. We probably won't know the answer to that until at least January, so I will enjoy it to it's fullest for the time being.

badboy
12-11-2013, 02:03 PM
This whole story has been funny to watch. I have a real hard time seeing Saban leave Bama for UT, but it could happen. I think Saban is underpaid though, he should at least have some hefty escalators in his contract of like +2 million for a national championship if they are going to leave him at 5m a year. He deserves a lot more than that considering how much the school makes off the football program.Seems impossible to me but the guy on 790 radio (program after ND Kalu's) said a report (I did not catch source)saying Saban offered 10 year 100 million dollar deal plus 1% of the UT Longhorn network.

Dutchrudder
12-11-2013, 02:24 PM
Seems impossible to me but the guy on 790 radio (program after ND Kalu's) said a report (I did not catch source)saying Saban offered 10 year 100 million dollar deal plus 1% of the UT Longhorn network.

It's just a rumor at this point, but it could happen. I would guess the offer is more in the 5 years 40-50 million range. 8-10 million a year to get him to come in and fix the program sounds about right.

The biggest holdup now is Mack Brown. Mack wants a cushy job at UT and the Saban camp doesn't want him in a position to meddle with the football program.

keyser
12-11-2013, 06:42 PM
I wouldn't trust anything Mack Brown says anyway. I'm still bitter about the way he left UNC (while I was a student there). Brown had lots of success at UNC, which is first and foremost a basketball school, and it was obvious to everyone that he was likely to leave for a stronger football program. There were strong rumors that he'd be going to UT - lots of buzz about it. He then held a meeting with the team (I believe this was on a Monday) to tell them all that he had NOT agreed to go to UT (technically, he had not, yet). The next thing any of the team, students, fans, etc. heard, then, was him being announced as the new coach in Austin (on a Wednesday, if I remember).

I've known other people in high-level positions, and I understand why they have to deny that they've agreed until they've actually signed (I've even seen stuff fall through at the last minute, making it REALLY good that they didn't say anything sooner). And, it wasn't that he left: this was, to me, expected to happen either that year or in the next year or two, though several other UNC fans are just mad at him leaving. But, to specifically call a meeting to squash the rumor and reassure his team, right as he was in the process of wrapping up negotiations to leave seemed like a pretty classless thing to do.

bah007
12-11-2013, 09:04 PM
I follow Texas football quite closely and I think it is beyond classless the way that Mack is being run out of town on a rail right now, as if he has never brought anything to the program. How easily people forget where this program was when he arrived.

I agree that his time is up, and if he refuses to recognize that then it's going to get ugly. But the conduct of the Texas fans that I have spoken to is pathetic. If they don't land Saban this could very well turn into a Phil Fulmer situation. You don't know what you got til it's gone.

I'm not saying that the guy has anything left in the tank. I just think Texas fans should wait and let things play out before they try to tarnish Brown's legacy just because he announced his retirement a week after they wanted him to.

Stemp
12-11-2013, 10:27 PM
Seems impossible to me but the guy on 790 radio (program after ND Kalu's) said a report (I did not catch source)saying Saban offered 10 year 100 million dollar deal plus 1% of the UT Longhorn network.

Texas can't offer a percentage of the lhn because they don't own it, espn does.

Playoffs
12-12-2013, 06:20 PM
Some think this is hopeful for Brown...

UT regents retain Bill Powers as university president (http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/new-school-named-ut-rio-grande-valley/ncJbd/)
Following a closed-door meeting of the University of Texas System Board of Regents to discuss his future employment, Bill Powers will remain president of the University of Texas at Austin.

Chancellor Francisco Cigarroa emerged from the closed-door session Thursday and made public his recommendation that Powers stay in office. The regents then adjourned without taking action.

Cigarroa told the regents that relations between the system and the university leader “remain strained,” but he said he was committed to working with Powers to resolve their problems and to move ahead.

Corrosion
12-12-2013, 06:33 PM
I wonder if this is another case of the media throwing sh!t at the wall to see if it sticks.

Playoffs
12-13-2013, 12:21 PM
Reporter: Texas Longhorns to offer $7 million per year to new coach; Mack Brown knew at start of season he needed BCS bowl or Big 12 title to keep job (http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20131211-reporter-texas-longhorns-to-offer-7-million-per-year-to-new-coach-mack-brown-knew-at-start-of-season-he-needed-bcs-bowl-or-big-12-title-to-keep-job.ece)

On his story:
"In making my calls I got confirmation from a voice I didn't think I'd get it and that told me this was absolutely happening. It's just surreal. ... There's just a lot of change going on here. I can't stress that enough. I don't know if it's good or bad. It is change though and we're talking about culture change. When you've had an athletic director running the place for 32 years very successfully, financially for sure and then as the bar graph starts to point down there's going to be change, and that's where we are. I think by the end of the week we're going to have something official from Mack Brown."

On Brown leaving:
"It will be a mutual parting of ways and here's why: They had established for Mack Brown that it needed to be a BCS season or a share of the Big 12 title and to be able to claim progress. Mack knew that from the time that he had to change defensive coordinators that was the bar. ... Obviously with Mack Brown being 30 minutes away from the Big 12 title felt like, 'Hey, I should lobby my point and see if I can stay' and that wasn't really the deal, so it is where it is."

On Nick Saban:
"I can tell you this, there's been no formal offer to Nick Saban. Bill Powers the school president would never that happen until things are resolved with Mack Brown. Could something be pulled together quickly? Probably. But these numbers that are being thrown around, $10 million -- I'm told that the conversation the regent and the former regent had with Saban's agent in January was $7 million and I was told Texas isn't going to come off that number. That is a record. That would be a record salary for a college football coach. If that's not good enough for Nick Saban, who I think would be at the top of the list -- I think Urban Meyer would be second -- I think Texas would move on."

On who Texas would pursue besides Saban:
"I was told they're going to go after a coach who has won a national title or a Super Bowl. I think they feel like the Texas job is the best job in the country and they will able to land someone with that on their resume. I think David Shaw at Stanford would be someone, obviously he hasn't won a national title. Jim Harbaugh. Those two guys both had success at Stanford and I think that school president Bill Power, who talks to Bob Bowlsby, the Big 12 commissioner, Bowlsby hired both of those guys at Stanford and I think that Texas would have an interest in David Shaw and/or Jim Harbaugh. How interested would they be to come to Texas? Hard to say. I think Mike Tomlin would be a guy to keep an eye as well, as well as the winner of the national championship game."

bah007
12-13-2013, 02:23 PM
I think all this Saban stuff is just being "leaked" by someone who wants Mack Brown gone. Could be someone in the program. Hell, the way media works these days it could have been started by a reporter or a blogger and just kept going. Get the fan base in an uproar about the last few years (deservedly) and make them think there are greener pastures on the other side.

I think there is less than a 1% chance that Saban goes to Texas. And all this stuff about Super Bowl winning coaches is just silly to me. Mike Tomlin is going to leave the Pittsburgh Steelers to go coach a college team?

I am a big Texas fan and would love to see Saban at Texas. And I would gladly eat crow if it happened. But it won't.

Playoffs
12-13-2013, 02:29 PM
I think all this Saban stuff is just being "leaked" by someone who wants Mack Brown gone...

Or leaked by Saban trying to force as big a contract as he can get from 'Bama.

bah007
12-13-2013, 02:30 PM
If Texas is looking at current FBS head coaches then I would think the future coach is one of these guys:

Art Briles - Baylor
Todd Graham - Arizona St
Charlie Strong - Louisville
Bill O'Brien - Penn St
Bobby Petrino - Western Kentucky
Bronco Mendenhall - BYU

You also have a whole slew of top NFL and FBS coordinators who could be potential candidates but I figure a school like Texas would want to go after a top head coach.

bah007
12-13-2013, 02:32 PM
Or leaked by Saban trying to force as big a contract as he can get from 'Bama.

Honestly, I don't think Saban even needs leverage to get a better contract if he wants one. He could just ask. He is a made man.

But I wouldn't be surprised at all if his agent is the one driving all these rumors.

b0ng
12-13-2013, 03:02 PM
I follow Texas football quite closely and I think it is beyond classless the way that Mack is being run out of town on a rail right now, as if he has never brought anything to the program. How easily people forget where this program was when he arrived.

I agree that his time is up, and if he refuses to recognize that then it's going to get ugly. But the conduct of the Texas fans that I have spoken to is pathetic. If they don't land Saban this could very well turn into a Phil Fulmer situation. You don't know what you got til it's gone.

I'm not saying that the guy has anything left in the tank. I just think Texas fans should wait and let things play out before they try to tarnish Brown's legacy just because he announced his retirement a week after they wanted him to.

I don't fault Texas fans for vociferously wanting Brown gone, it's the nature of college football fandom. Yes he brought a championship to UT almost a decade ago, and came close to another one but UT has always been a powerhouse recruiter in the state of Texans and there is a lot of football talent here every year. If you've got Mack making senile decisions like making Case McCoy the guy over tryouts like RG3 and Manziel then there needs to be some accountability for that.

There are a lot of guys that UT could probably get that would be great coaches and the longer Mack (or UT Admins) delay the inevitable it's only going to get louder from the fans, and rightfully so.

bah007
12-13-2013, 04:16 PM
I don't fault Texas fans for vociferously wanting Brown gone, it's the nature of college football fandom. Yes he brought a championship to UT almost a decade ago, and came close to another one but UT has always been a powerhouse recruiter in the state of Texans and there is a lot of football talent here every year. If you've got Mack making senile decisions like making Case McCoy the guy over tryouts like RG3 and Manziel then there needs to be some accountability for that.

There are a lot of guys that UT could probably get that would be great coaches and the longer Mack (or UT Admins) delay the inevitable it's only going to get louder from the fans, and rightfully so.

I agree with pretty much all of that. It's the conduct of the people I have spoken with that sets me off. The stuff that's been written (not here, obviously) is pathetic.

I am not advocating that Mack needs to stay. The results speak for themselves. But I'm just hoping this thing doesn't get ugly before it's over. Saban isn't on the other line.

Playoffs
12-13-2013, 05:24 PM
Longhorn Network ‏@LonghornNetwork
Texas football banquet live on LHN at 6:30 CT. Mack Brown, Bill Powers, Steve Patterson and DeLoss Dodds all scheduled to speak.

Playoffs
12-13-2013, 09:37 PM
Chip Brown ‏@ChipBrownOB
Mack Brown makes no mention about his future as coach at Texas during football banquet.

Source: Mack Brown fighting for job (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10135176/texas-longhorns-mack-brown-meets-ad-steve-patterson-president-bill-powers)
Embattled Texas coach Mack Brown met Friday with university president Bill Powers and athletic director Steve Patterson, a source told ESPN's Brett McMurphy.

Details of the meeting were not immediately available, but a source said Brown is now fighting to keep his job.

Brown had previously confided in those close to him that he was resigning, the source said. However, Brown was "enraged" when the news leaked to the media, and he decided to change course, according to the source.

Texecutioner
12-13-2013, 11:01 PM
I agree with pretty much all of that. It's the conduct of the people I have spoken with that sets me off. The stuff that's been written (not here, obviously) is pathetic.

I am not advocating that Mack needs to stay. The results speak for themselves. But I'm just hoping this thing doesn't get ugly before it's over. Saban isn't on the other line.

I'll never understand this mentality of non accountability and "hurt feelings" approach. It's like you guys totally forget that these men are paid Millions a year to coach a football team which is something they love to do. You guys get so caught up in this whole "personality" thing where if if you think some guy is a good guy that he should get all of these preferential treatment for years and should be coddled like some child who is mentally unstable or something. Mack Brown was supposed to be fired before VY got there. Hell, he refused to fire Greg Davis for years which put the team in a hole more times then I could count. He even refused at one point and said he would leave the UNiversity all so he could keep his little buddy that was in his wedding. The jokes about Mack Brown from other teams have been going on for over ten years.

Spare me with this stuff about it being pathetic how this was handled or how this was wrong on ole poor Mack who has been over paid for years. Hell the man just got an extension a few years ago after losing like 4 games. The same crap that was said over and over about Bobby Bowden who should have been fired way before he finally got canned and here they are back into a NC just a few years removed from letting him go finally when he outright refused to leave knowing his time had passed. This is football and it's a business which is something many of you just don't understand. All of this money floating around the NCAA and all of this money at a school like Texas and they can't expect excellence from their HC and want him to consistently make their team competitive around the top 10? Completely unrealistic, and the type of mentality where the last place team should get a trophy. Might as well not even name a 1st place team with this kind of stance. Just let everyone play and not even keep score.

Mack is going to be out, and if he isn't Texas will get embarrassed again next season and only sink further than they have for years while raping the University for Millions.

bah007
12-13-2013, 11:27 PM
I'll never understand this mentality of non accountability and "hurt feelings" approach. It's like you guys totally forget that these men are paid Millions a year to coach a football team which is something they love to do. You guys get so caught up in this whole "personality" thing where if if you think some guy is a good guy that he should get all of these preferential treatment for years and should be coddled like some child who is mentally unstable or something. Mack Brown was supposed to be fired before VY got there. Hell, he refused to fire Greg Davis for years which put the team in a hole more times then I could count. He even refused at one point and said he would leave the UNiversity all so he could keep his little buddy that was in his wedding. The jokes about Mack Brown from other teams have been going on for over ten years.

Spare me with this stuff about it being pathetic how this was handled or how this was wrong on ole poor Mack who has been over paid for years. Hell the man just got an extension a few years ago after losing like 4 games. The same crap that was said over and over about Bobby Bowden who should have been fired way before he finally got canned and here they are back into a NC just a few years removed from letting him go finally when he outright refused to leave knowing his time had passed. This is football and it's a business which is something many of you just don't understand. All of this money floating around the NCAA and all of this money at a school like Texas and they can't expect excellence from their HC and want him to consistently make their team competitive around the top 10? Completely unrealistic, and the type of mentality where the last place team should get a trophy. Might as well not even name a 1st place team with this kind of stance. Just let everyone play and not even keep score.

Mack is going to be out, and if he isn't Texas will get embarrassed again next season and only sink further than they have for years while raping the University for Millions.

I think you're mistaking me. I don't feel sorry for Mack. He gets paid millions of dollars for a job that he has become subpar at.

I'm irritated at the arrogance of the fans. Like it or not, Mack is the second best coach in school history. Think about that for a second. Think about all the resources we have, and yet consider all the problems that we have encountered under Mack. To think that he can just be easily replaced is farfetched. If it was so easy then a guy like Mack wouldn't be the second best coach in the history of the program.

The people in charge need to do their homework. There is a necessary process that needs to be followed. And the idea that some NFL coach would walk away from their job to come coach Texas is silly. This is the exact arrogance that draws people away from Texas. Saban is not walking through that door. So if you fire Mack you fire him because he is underperforming. You don't fire him because you think you can upgrade.

Texecutioner
12-13-2013, 11:34 PM
I think you're mistaking me. I don't feel sorry for Mack. He gets paid millions of dollars for a job that he has become subpar at.

I'm irritated at the arrogance of the fans. Like it or not, Mack is the second best coach in school history. To think that he can just be easily replaced is farfetched. The people in charge need to do their homework. There is a necessary process that needs to be followed. And the idea that some NFL coach would walk away from their job to come coach Texas is silly. This is the exact arrogance that draws people away from Texas. Saban is not walking through that door. So if you fire Mack you fire him because he is underperforming. You don't fire him because you think you can upgrade.

Well, you can go celebrate and enjoy another embarrassing season while Sooner and Aggies fans laugh at Texas for another season, because it was just announced that "Cookies" is coming back for another season next year. The football program will continue to be a punchline once again.

And upgrading Mack Brown is easy for the record. This is the exact mentality I'm talking about. This fearful mentality that that someone would actually be worse. Mack is a laughing stock around college football. Always has been. Sooners fans love having Mack around. A recruiter who can't make adjustments to save his life. He probably still thinks it was the right decision to start Simms over Applewhite. Texas deserves whatever bad publicity they get going forward, and hell they still deserve it for breaking up that huge conference realignment a few years ago when they wanted that stupid Longhorn network.

Playoffs
12-13-2013, 11:54 PM
Or leaked by Saban trying to force as big a contract as he can get from 'Bama.

Nick Saban staying at Bama, UA is 'where I plan to end my coaching career' (http://www.myfoxal.com/story/24217652/reports-saban-staying-at-bama)
Nick Saban has agreed to a new long-term contract extension with Alabama, the university confirmed Friday.

bah007
12-13-2013, 11:55 PM
Well, you can go celebrate and enjoy another embarrassing season while Sooner and Aggies fans laugh at Texas for another season, because it was just announced that "Cookies" is coming back for another season next year. The football program will continue to be a punchline once again.

And upgrading Mack Brown is easy for the record. This is the exact mentality I'm talking about. This fearful mentality that that someone would actually be worse. Mack is a laughing stock around college football. Always has been. Sooners fans love having Mack around. A recruiter who can't make adjustments to save his life. He probably still thinks it was the right decision to start Simms over Applewhite. Texas deserves whatever bad publicity they get going forward, and hell they still deserve it for breaking up that huge conference realignment a few years ago when they wanted that stupid Longhorn network.

Lol you hate Mack. I get it. You want him gone. I get it.

All I'm saying is that you don't make program decisions based on what the fans want. The fans don't know ****. If better coaches than Mack grew on trees then he wouldn't be the second best coach in the history of the program. Let's be honest, he is not that great of a coach. And yet, look at what he has done in his career. And then compare that to those who came before him.

I am a big time fan of the University of Texas and even I can admit that the arrogance surrounding this program is pathetic. If you can't admit that then you are part of the problem. This whole process has been a pathetic clown show, and the fans deserve it.

Texecutioner
12-14-2013, 12:16 AM
Lol you hate Mack. I get it. You want him gone. I get it.

All I'm saying is that you don't make program decisions based on what the fans want. The fans don't know ****.

Uuuummm, yes the fans do know a lot. Not all of them. NOt the ones that have continued to think that Mack was somehow going to learn from his mistakes over the years without some savior like VY or Will Muschamp. You are the typical type that has this fear mentality that the whole program will shut down for like 20 years if Mack is gone when nothing would be further from the truth. Hell, I remember you saying this same stuff years ago on here and just look at how silly it's been. Same failed arguments that were made from Kubiak supporters all these years. Mack made a living off of a horrible BIG 12 for years with those padded win stats where he could never win the big game. He got VY and they had to stop coaching him so he could carry their team to a NC to save Mack's job. Hell Jamal Charles and Finley both left early just to be 3rd round draft picks because they said they were used well enough. Are you kidding me?? When your biggest rivalry has never wanted your coach gone, it's pretty obvious that your HC is the problem. Sooner fans are celebrating big time right now.



If better coaches than Mack grew on trees then he wouldn't be the second best coach in the history of the program. Let's be honest, he is not that great of a coach. And yet, look at what he has done in his career. And then compare that to those who came before him.

Typical numbers argument from cherry picked stats. Mack is nothing but a recruiter and a CEO type of coach. He has never known how to game plan. It's always some assistants that have to come in and save his ass and someone above him that has to force him to get rid of a guy like Greg Davis who is also now despised in Iowa by most of the fans with his awful play calling that stunk at Texas.

I am a big time fan of the University of Texas and even I can admit that the arrogance surrounding this program is pathetic. If you can't admit that then you are part of the problem. This whole process has been a pathetic clown show, and the fans deserve it.

I think the pathetic part is that fans that continue to makes these excuses for a guy that puts himself and his relationships above the program. It's been in turmoil for years. The only fans that deserve this crap are the ones that just want a good ole boy that speaks softly and acts like he has "class." Let's just keep this guy around forever like he is some sort of congress member because he's a classy guy. Man, I swear these arguments sound as crazy as the stuff I hear from our government on why they can't ever get our deficit together. It's mind boggling.

bah007
12-14-2013, 12:40 AM
Uuuummm, yes the fans do know a lot. Not all of them. NOt the ones that have continued to think that Mack was somehow going to learn from his mistakes over the years without some savior like VY or Will Muschamp. You are the typical type that has this fear mentality that the whole program will shut down for like 20 years if Mack is gone when nothing would be further from the truth. Hell, I remember you saying this same stuff years ago on here and just look at how silly it's been. Same failed arguments that were made from Kubiak supporters all these years. Mack made a living off of a horrible BIG 12 for years with those padded win stats where he could never win the big game. He got VY and they had to stop coaching him so he could carry their team to a NC to save Mack's job. Hell Jamal Charles and Finley both left early just to be 3rd round draft picks because they said they were used well enough. Are you kidding me?? When your biggest rivalry has never wanted your coach gone, it's pretty obvious that your HC is the problem. Sooner fans are celebrating big time right now.

LOL I disagree with literally none of this. Except for the part where you try to call me out for some stuff that I never even said. I have never been a Mack supporter. I have criticized him and his coaching staff (most notably Greg Davis) on multiple occasions. All I am saying is that this whole debacle has been a pathetic circus. The fans have acted like children and I don't feel sorry for them that this is the outcome.



Typical numbers argument from cherry picked stats. Mack is nothing but a recruiter and a CEO type of coach. He has never known how to game plan. It's always some assistants that have to come in and save his ass and someone above him that has to force him to get rid of a guy like Greg Davis who is also now despised in Iowa by most of the fans with his awful play calling that stunk at Texas.

Agree with all of this. Except for the part where I apparently cherry picked stats? Look through the history of our program. Despite all of the top notch resources we have, Mack is the second most successful coach in history. If you want to attribute that to something other than his abilities then that is really fine by me. He is a mediocre coach. But the fact remains.

I think the pathetic part is that fans that continue to makes these excuses for a guy that puts himself and his relationships above the program. It's been in turmoil for years. The only fans that deserve this crap are the ones that just want a good ole boy that speaks softly and acts like he has "class." Let's just keep this guy around forever like he is some sort of congress member because he's a classy guy. Man, I swear these arguments sound as crazy as the stuff I hear from our government on why they can't ever get our deficit together. It's mind boggling.

I've made no excuses for Mack. I think the championship game against Alabama finished him. He's been on autopilot ever since. All I've been saying is that this whole thing reminds me of the Phil Fulmer situation at Tennessee. The guy was past his prime and the fans **** on him for it. They moved on to an inferior coach just because they thought that anything would be better. Look at them now.

I hope that we end up like Florida St and not like Tennessee. But I'm just judging based on what I see.

I'm mostly irritated that the fans bought into all these Saban, Harbaugh, and Tomlin rumors. Those guys aren't on the table. It takes a completely blind arrogance to just assume that a NFL coach would walk away from his job and come crawling to us. And all of this rumor mongering has boiled everything up to a point where it was either Saban or bust. No new coach could have ever lived up to the expectations that were about to be placed upon them. This program and its fans need a reality check.

b0ng
12-14-2013, 10:27 AM
Uuuummm, yes the fans do know a lot. Not all of them.

A particular fan might know a lot, but fans are moody, easily panicked and subject to groupthink with bad opinions.

Texecutioner
12-14-2013, 11:32 PM
Mack officially steps down at Texas!!! Waited over ten long years for this.


:spot::pepper::piano::penguin::evilb:


Great month for Texas sports with Kubiak and Mack finally being canned.

Dan B.
12-15-2013, 02:10 AM
I don't have a good feeling about this. The whole thing was handled really poorly IMO.

Carr Bombed
12-15-2013, 03:02 AM
Mack officially steps down at Texas!!! Waited over ten long years for this.


:spot::pepper::piano::penguin::evilb:


Great month for Texas sports with Kubiak and Mack finally being canned.

So when he had the longest tenure of winning 10 or more games per season or when he was on the cusp of winning the 2005 NC by beating a USC Dynasty you were hoping he'd get fired? Or how about when he competed for another NC? DAMN, I hate to see how you end up feeling about or treating the next head coach. Because the next head coach has a **** load to live up to.. especially under a 10 year period

Did Brown need to be canned.. yes, it was time, but that time comes with every head football coach eventually. Having said that, people shouldn't have been waiting for his dismissal for "10 long years", because Mack Brown did a lot of good things for this school and won more games/NCs/Bowls games than almost any other coach in this country for about a decade.

It wasn't until the last couple of years where it was blatant that the man had to go. He had this team in contention most other years. His assistants let him down and he became too old where he really didn't have the hands on approach that he should've had.. which is why it's time to resign. But don't be surprised if the next guy falls flat on his face and doesn't come close to what Texas had the past 10 seasons with Brown. Lets not sit here and act like he did a piss poor job.. because he didn't. He only accumulated the second most wins in school history as a head coach.

Carr Bombed
12-15-2013, 03:18 AM
I don't have a good feeling about this. The whole thing was handled really poorly IMO.

My problem with handling the situation is if they were going to fire him or planned on firing him then they should've just fired him. Don't force the guy to crawl to you and resign.. especially if it was going to take weeks for that resign to happen, especially after leaking stories about a possibly resign.

If you didn't want him here, rip off the band aid and terminate him. They would've shown a lot more class by just firing the guy, the university looked like complete idiots by handling the situation the way they did.

Stemp
12-15-2013, 09:59 AM
My problem with handling the situation is if they were going to fire him or planned on firing him then they should've just fired him. Don't force the guy to crawl to you and resign.. especially if it was going to take weeks for that resign to happen, especially after leaking stories about a possibly resign.

If you didn't want him here, rip off the band aid and terminate him. They would've shown a lot more class by just firing the guy, the university looked like complete idiots by handling the situation the way they did.

Mack had Jamail and powers in his corner. There is no way they were going to fire him. All Mack wanted to do (if be couldnt keep he job) was delay long enough to block Saban.

bah007
12-15-2013, 10:13 AM
When your boosters have more power than your administration you are in trouble.

Boosters make DONATIONS, not DECISIONS. If they can't deal with that then they can donate to a different program. The problem is that you need an administration that is strong and confident enough to make that clear to them, which Texas doesn't appear to have.

bah007
12-15-2013, 10:15 AM
Mack had Jamail and powers in his corner. There is no way they were going to fire him. All Mack wanted to do (if be couldnt keep he job) was delay long enough to block Saban.

I think Mack just wanted to keep his job or go out on his own terms if he couldn't.

Saban's agent was only using Texas for a raise. He was never coming.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 11:58 AM
So when he had the longest tenure of winning 10 or more games per season or when he was on the cusp of winning the 2005 NC by beating a USC Dynasty you were hoping he'd get fired?

Pretty shocking that you actually have the audacity to come in and speak on this subject after so many failed arguments over the years for Cookies. I've already had to repost your arguments before that fell flat and were dead wrong on Mack. Mack's 10 win seasons that he started out getting were some of the worst failed years for people that actually were analyzing the situations and the teams. Mack had way more talent than anyone, and never could win the BIG 12. He was known for being the most underachieving HC in college football that couldn't win the big game.

He totally ruined those teams that had Applewhite and Simms and caved into pressure to play Simms from political pressure knowing Applewhite was way better. He literally screwed Texas out of a National Championship opportunity against Colorado by allowing Simms to create like 5 turnovers in the first half where Applewhite almost made a comeback but it was to late. God, I will never forget that game. MACK should have been fired the next day. Longhorn fans that have actually paid attention for years will never forget that debacle. Mack ruined that chance for that team after Applewhite had shown all season he was a special player and that Simms was just an overrated talent that was the son of a pro player. Then his constant failures on offense with Greg Davis who was so easy to figure out for years by smart HC's where he hated throwing down the field. Mack even threatened to leave Texas when they were trying to force him to cut Greg Davis off the staff. His loyalty to Davis was stronger than his commitment to the team and to getting over the hump.

And if you knew anything about the BIG 12 around that time, Oklahoma was the only school close to them in talent and Mack was known as Bob's whipping boy for years until VY came along and saved Mack's job. In the long run I always knew that would be a problem that would come back to haunt them. Then Muschamp ignited the team just enough to help McCoy have some success his last two seasons, because in his first two Texas was back to having horrible failures in games they were supposed to win. If VY and Muschamp would have never come along Mack wouldn't have ever gotten anywhere. Once Muschamp was gone, most Longhorn fans knew it was going to get ugly again and it did.

Hell, try talking to some Oklahoma fans. I have for years and they all love Mack Brownand you know why? He has always been a punchline amongst the top rivals of Texas. NO ONE has ever wanted Mack gone from other schools and that should tell even the worst of Mack's supporters the obvious. fans from rival schools have always known that if Texas had a great HC to go with all of that talent, that they would be crazy scary. But with Mack, no one really worried.


Or how about when he competed for another NC? DAMN, I hate to see how you end up feeling about or treating the next head coach. Because the next head coach has a **** load to live up to.. especially under a 10 year period

I could care less about what he did at NC. I'm talking about his tenure at Texas. ANd you have no clue how I would judge the next HC. All you know is how I have judged Mack and Kubiak and both have been inept in all sorts of areas. Mack subsequently got a NC because he had arguably the best college football player of all time who completely dominated the entire NCAA. MACK and Davis both admitted that they had to "stop" coaching VY for him to have success which is one of the craziest things I've heard any HC say. The announcers at the time used to make jokes that VY "Mack Brown Proofed" his team. Lol! Hell, and even before that he played that god awful CHANCE MOCK over VY. Lol! Chance managed to lose a game or two that season as well which sort of slowed down VY's development at the time. Mock had no business ever being the starter over VY. Typical situation that showed that Mack had never learned from his last debacle with Simms and Applewhite.

Did Brown need to be canned.. yes, it was time, but that time comes with every head football coach eventually. Having said that, people shouldn't have been waiting for his dismissal for "10 long years", because Mack Brown did a lot of good things for this school and won more games/NCs/Bowls games than almost any other coach in this country for about a decade.


I'll totally agree with you that Mack Brown did a great job at resurrecting the program to where it was with Malcovich. I'll give him that all day. He did that with recruiting top players in Texas though. He brought in tons of top tier talent from year to year, but it was never due to his coaching from game day valuations and adjustments at halftime. He got them back to being talked about where a lot of players wanted to go there, but he was awful at coaching them. Ask Jamal Charles and Jermichael Finley who both left early because they didn't feel like they were used correctly.

It wasn't until the last couple of years where it was blatant that the man had to go. He had this team in contention most other years. His assistants let him down and he became too old where he really didn't have the hands on approach that he should've had.. which is why it's time to resign. But don't be surprised if the next guy falls flat on his face and doesn't come close to what Texas had the past 10 seasons with Brown. Lets not sit here and act like he did a piss poor job.. because he didn't. He only accumulated the second most wins in school history as a head coach.[/QUOTE]

It was only blatant to the tea sip homers like yourself who got all caught up in those 10 win seasons, but failed to watch and understand how badly him and Davis were botching the potential of the team. The endless coddling and blind loyalty to certain players like Simms, Scott Derry, Bobino, Killebrew, Gideon, and countless others. The same crap that Kubiak always had a problem with. Fans across the country always laughed about Texas because of Mack's ability to coach in the big games and how "uninspired" the team would look especially in the majority of those Red River Shootout games. HOW MANY BIG 12 CHAMPIONSHIPS DID MACK WIN WITH ALL OF THAT TALENT? TWO!!!!! He won two in 16 years!!! How do you have all of those 10 win seasons, but only two BIG 12 championships to show for it?? That right there ought to smack you dead in the brain for underachieving when it mattered most, but apparently you have always liked the guy for who you think he is off the field than for who he is as a HC.

Depending on who Texas gets as a HC next and what talent he has and acquires and what those circumstances are will be how I judge the next HC. Mack typically had a top 5 rosters almost every year at Texas and most fans across the country knew he would somehow screw it all up other than the years when VY was there.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 12:08 PM
I think Mack just wanted to keep his job or go out on his own terms if he couldn't.

Saban's agent was only using Texas for a raise. He was never coming.

I disagree. It was reported that he was looking for a staff to bring to Austin. from a lot of reports on OB, it sounds like Mack got in the way of Sabin signing at Texas. Not surprised either. Mack didn't want a guy like Sabin to come in and win with his teams and show how badly he was underachieving with them. Mack's a pretty narcissistic and stubborn guy and always has been. People think he is all class because of how he speaks and carries himself in front of the cameras, but he has done a lot of things over the years that put himself over the team's success.

When your boosters have more power than your administration you are in trouble.

Boosters make DONATIONS, not DECISIONS. If they can't deal with that then they can donate to a different program. The problem is that you need an administration that is strong and confident enough to make that clear to them, which Texas doesn't appear to have.

How? The boosters are the ones that "kept" Mack Brown there way to long. The boosters were the ones that graciously allowed Mack to keep his job when he couldn't win the BIG 12 all of those years before VY finally owned the entire NCAA. The boosters helped for Mack to get that asinine extension a few years ago when he lost like 4 or 5 games and everyone around the country was like WTF??? The boosters loved Mack and were far to gracious and loyal to him. I have no idea how or why you were twisting this around and acting like they are the ones that screwed him. He wasn't screwed at all or let down. He was finally given his pink slip after 16 years and only two BIG 12 championships. He was given almost 2 decades.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 12:15 PM
Mack had Jamail and powers in his corner. There is no way they were going to fire him. All Mack wanted to do (if be couldnt keep he job) was delay long enough to block Saban.

Thank you!! I have no idea why people are still trying to give this guy respect after he delayed all of this for a bigger payout and to block Sabin. Hell, we have to get the Aggies fans in here to look at this objectively.

Dan B.
12-15-2013, 12:43 PM
What kind of UT fan is miserable about the Longhorns performance from 2000-2009? 99% of the schools playing football would love to have those skins on their wall, including every other school in Texas/Oklahoma.

Thank you for being the best Horns coach in my lifetime Mack. I can only hope the next representative wins as often and carries themselves as well as you did.

Comparing Mack to Kubes is silly. One is the ninth winningest coach in FBS history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_football_coaches_with_200_wins) (Saban would have to go undefeated for five years in a row to tie Mack in wins). The other is under .500.

Playoffs
12-15-2013, 12:47 PM
...All Mack wanted to do (if be couldnt keep he job) was delay long enough to block Saban.

What's now clear to a group of regents and billionaires who had targeted Saban as Texas' next coach is Brown and Powers did everything they could to sabotage their attempt to hire Saban for a second straight year.

One person involved in Texas' attempt to hire Nick Saban called Mack Brown's ability to thwart that effort, "The greatest upset of the college football season."http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1587416

Dan B.
12-15-2013, 01:03 PM
Tex must be a blast at company retirement parties.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 01:51 PM
Tex must be a blast at company retirement parties.

Lol!! Gotta admit that is pretty funny.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1587416


Yeah, but he is all class. Lol!

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 01:54 PM
Comparing Mack to Kubes is silly. One is the ninth winningest coach in FBS history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_football_coaches_with_200_wins) (Saban would have to go undefeated for five years in a row to tie Mack in wins). The other is under .500.

You clearly didn't understand the comparison at all. No one compared their legacies. It was how they coached and their style of coaching.

Playoffs
12-15-2013, 02:20 PM
double post.

Playoffs
12-15-2013, 02:21 PM
Yeah, but he is all class. Lol!

He's gave UT some pretty good memories. He's got an ego. He got his feelings hurt. He's imperfect. He's human.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 02:27 PM
He's gave UT some pretty good memories. He's got an ego. He got his feelings hurt. He's imperfect. He's human.

I can agree with that. Fair assessment. That doesn't excuse him from doing everything possible to sabotage a Sabin hiring just because he didn't like being pushed out. And this constant whining of firing HC's that are under performing and calling it classless and tasteless from fans is gag worthy though. These guys have great jobs where they are paid extremely well. When they are winning they are treated like gods. When they are losing, not so much. That's part of the job and what they sign up for. They're doing what they love to do. The reality is that you can and will get fired most likely one day. There are always these fans that cry and weep no matter how is goes down and somehow act like the HC is being assaulted and forced to walk around with no clothes or something with the way they criticize a team or a school for pulling the plug on a guy. The reality is that UT has been extremely generous to Mack Brown. A lot more generous than most Universities would have been. This nature of shaming an organization every time they go in another direction just wreaks of a soft mentality of wanting to reward mediocrity.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 02:41 PM
Apparently Mack Brown took a big shot at Chip Brown for reporting the story initially of Mack being pushed out and at "Orangebloods" website as a big reason for the way things happened. This was on the OB website a little while ago. Here is a quote from Jeff Ketchum (Longhorns insider and site admin) himself.



"In the final hours he believes that all of the anger from the BMDs was created by things written on this site.

Honestly, I don't think he totally understands the level of unrest that exists."

http://texas.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=500&tid=195858549&mid=195858549&sid=902&style=2

Not sure if folks can read the thread since it is a paid site that you have to have a paid account for through Rivals.com

bah007
12-15-2013, 03:22 PM
I disagree. It was reported that he was looking for a staff to bring to Austin. from a lot of reports on OB, it sounds like Mack got in the way of Sabin signing at Texas. Not surprised either. Mack didn't want a guy like Sabin to come in and win with his teams and show how badly he was underachieving with them. Mack's a pretty narcissistic and stubborn guy and always has been. People think he is all class because of how he speaks and carries himself in front of the cameras, but he has done a lot of things over the years that put himself over the team's success.

I don't trust any of these "reports" that have come from the Texas paysites in the last few months. These bloggers have egg all over their faces. They either don't have "inside sources" and are charging people money just to read their speculation, or they have inside sources who aren't worth paying for.

How? The boosters are the ones that "kept" Mack Brown there way to long. The boosters were the ones that graciously allowed Mack to keep his job when he couldn't win the BIG 12 all of those years before VY finally owned the entire NCAA. The boosters helped for Mack to get that asinine extension a few years ago when he lost like 4 or 5 games and everyone around the country was like WTF??? The boosters loved Mack and were far to gracious and loyal to him. I have no idea how or why you were twisting this around and acting like they are the ones that screwed him. He wasn't screwed at all or let down. He was finally given his pink slip after 16 years and only two BIG 12 championships. He was given almost 2 decades.

Kinda confused why you're jumping down my throat on this one. My post was a response to Stemp's point that Mack was untouchable because he had Joe Jamail in his corner. I realize that Jamail donates millions of dollars to the program but that does not buy him the right to be a decision maker. The Texas athletic department needs to take back control and stop letting boosters make decisions. We're on the same side on this one.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 03:28 PM
I don't trust any of these "reports" that have come from the Texas paysites in the last few months. These bloggers have egg all over their faces. They either don't have "inside sources" and are charging people money just to read their speculation, or they have inside sources who aren't worth paying for.



Kinda confused why you're jumping down my throat on this one. My post was a response to Stemp's point that Mack was untouchable because he had Joe Jamail in his corner. I realize that Jamail donates millions of dollars to the program but that does not buy him the right to be a decision maker. The Texas athletic department needs to take back control and stop letting boosters make decisions. We're on the same side on this one.

Not jumping down your throat buddy. On a board it may come off like that sometimes. Sorry if it seems that way. Just disputing your point that's all. My apologies if it comes off that way.

bah007
12-15-2013, 03:34 PM
Not jumping down your throat buddy. On a board it may come off like that sometimes. Sorry if it seems that way. Just disputing your point that's all. My apologies if it comes off that way.

No biggie. Just wasn't sure if you were aware that my comment was directed to the Joe Jamail situation.

Carr Bombed
12-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Pretty shocking that you actually have the audacity to come in and speak on this subject after so many failed arguments over the years for Cookies. I've already had to repost your arguments before that fell flat and were dead wrong on Mack. Mack's 10 win seasons that he started out getting were some of the worst failed years for people that actually were analyzing the situations and the teams. Mack had way more talent than anyone, and never could win the BIG 12. He was known for being the most underachieving HC in college football that couldn't win the big game.

He totally ruined those teams that had Applewhite and Simms and caved into pressure to play Simms from political pressure knowing Applewhite was way better. He literally screwed Texas out of a National Championship opportunity against Colorado by allowing Simms to create like 5 turnovers in the first half where Applewhite almost made a comeback but it was to late. God, I will never forget that game. MACK should have been fired the next day. Longhorn fans that have actually paid attention for years will never forget that debacle. Mack ruined that chance for that team after Applewhite had shown all season he was a special player and that Simms was just an overrated talent that was the son of a pro player. Then his constant failures on offense with Greg Davis who was so easy to figure out for years by smart HC's where he hated throwing down the field. Mack even threatened to leave Texas when they were trying to force him to cut Greg Davis off the staff. His loyalty to Davis was stronger than his commitment to the team and to getting over the hump.

And if you knew anything about the BIG 12 around that time, Oklahoma was the only school close to them in talent and Mack was known as Bob's whipping boy for years until VY came along and saved Mack's job. In the long run I always knew that would be a problem that would come back to haunt them. Then Muschamp ignited the team just enough to help McCoy have some success his last two seasons, because in his first two Texas was back to having horrible failures in games they were supposed to win. If VY and Muschamp would have never come along Mack wouldn't have ever gotten anywhere. Once Muschamp was gone, most Longhorn fans knew it was going to get ugly again and it did.

Hell, try talking to some Oklahoma fans. I have for years and they all love Mack Brownand you know why? He has always been a punchline amongst the top rivals of Texas. NO ONE has ever wanted Mack gone from other schools and that should tell even the worst of Mack's supporters the obvious. fans from rival schools have always known that if Texas had a great HC to go with all of that talent, that they would be crazy scary. But with Mack, no one really worried.




I could care less about what he did at NC. I'm talking about his tenure at Texas. ANd you have no clue how I would judge the next HC. All you know is how I have judged Mack and Kubiak and both have been inept in all sorts of areas. Mack subsequently got a NC because he had arguably the best college football player of all time who completely dominated the entire NCAA. MACK and Davis both admitted that they had to "stop" coaching VY for him to have success which is one of the craziest things I've heard any HC say. The announcers at the time used to make jokes that VY "Mack Brown Proofed" his team. Lol! Hell, and even before that he played that god awful CHANCE MOCK over VY. Lol! Chance managed to lose a game or two that season as well which sort of slowed down VY's development at the time. Mock had no business ever being the starter over VY. Typical situation that showed that Mack had never learned from his last debacle with Simms and Applewhite.




I'll totally agree with you that Mack Brown did a great job at resurrecting the program to where it was with Malcovich. I'll give him that all day. He did that with recruiting top players in Texas though. He brought in tons of top tier talent from year to year, but it was never due to his coaching from game day valuations and adjustments at halftime. He got them back to being talked about where a lot of players wanted to go there, but he was awful at coaching them. Ask Jamal Charles and Jermichael Finley who both left early because they didn't feel like they were used correctly.

It wasn't until the last couple of years where it was blatant that the man had to go. He had this team in contention most other years. His assistants let him down and he became too old where he really didn't have the hands on approach that he should've had.. which is why it's time to resign. But don't be surprised if the next guy falls flat on his face and doesn't come close to what Texas had the past 10 seasons with Brown. Lets not sit here and act like he did a piss poor job.. because he didn't. He only accumulated the second most wins in school history as a head coach.

It was only blatant to the tea sip homers like yourself who got all caught up in those 10 win seasons, but failed to watch and understand how badly him and Davis were botching the potential of the team. The endless coddling and blind loyalty to certain players like Simms, Scott Derry, Bobino, Killebrew, Gideon, and countless others. The same crap that Kubiak always had a problem with. Fans across the country always laughed about Texas because of Mack's ability to coach in the big games and how "uninspired" the team would look especially in the majority of those Red River Shootout games. HOW MANY BIG 12 CHAMPIONSHIPS DID MACK WIN WITH ALL OF THAT TALENT? TWO!!!!! He won two in 16 years!!! How do you have all of those 10 win seasons, but only two BIG 12 championships to show for it?? That right there ought to smack you dead in the brain for underachieving when it mattered most, but apparently you have always liked the guy for who you think he is off the field than for who he is as a HC.

Depending on who Texas gets as a HC next and what talent he has and acquires and what those circumstances are will be how I judge the next HC. Mack typically had a top 5 rosters almost every year at Texas and most fans across the country knew he would somehow screw it all up other than the years when VY was there.

Tex.. all I had to do was read your first sentence (didn't read the rest of your drivel) to know that you are full of ****.. which is the norm with most of your posts which is why you always fly off the handle and attack posters. "The audacity on most of my arguments" LMAO, please post them (seriously.. post them, because this will be another example where you're full of it). This is coming from the moron who suggests that Rex Ryan is a great head coach. Whoops.. what was that? A "failed argument" that you made, and you have had MANY of them over the years. LOL You need to get over yourself, seriously. The way you attack people just makes you look like a complete ass.

Carr Bombed
12-15-2013, 06:14 PM
Mack had Jamail and powers in his corner. There is no way they were going to fire him. All Mack wanted to do (if be couldnt keep he job) was delay long enough to block Saban.

Saban was never coming here.. that was a pipe dream. He only used the Texas job as leverage to extend another contract, which he's been able to do almost every other year. Saban signed his extension before Mack even left and even if he did leave, the guy was never going to come coach at this school. Being HC at Alabama is bigger than being HC at Texas

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 07:27 PM
Tex.. all I had to do was read your first sentence (didn't read the rest of your drivel) to know that you are full of ****.. which is the norm with most of your posts which is why you always fly off the handle and attack posters. "The audacity on most of my arguments" LMAO, please post them (seriously.. post them, because this will be another example where you're full of it). This is coming from the moron who suggests that Rex Ryan is a great head coach. Whoops.. what was that? A "failed argument" that you made, and you have had MANY of them over the years. LOL You need to get over yourself, seriously. The way you attack people just makes you look like a complete ass.

It was just an observation. I feel your frustration. Mack is gone now though, and this team can turn around and get a new look.