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Playoffs
12-09-2013, 01:22 AM
Among the candidates I know the Texans are interested in are former Chicago Bears coach Lovie Smith, Stanford coach David Shaw and San Diego offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt.http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/12/texans-will-not-pursue-shanahan-but-interested-in-smith-shaw-whisenhunt/

David Shaw, head coach, Stanford -- The former NFL assistant is so hot right now he can almost have his pick of jobs if he wants to move.

1995 Western Washington (LB)
1996 Western Washington (TE)
1997 Philadelphia Eagles (QC)
1998–2000 Oakland Raiders (QC)
2001 Oakland Raiders (QB)
2002–2004 Baltimore Ravens (QB/WR)
2005 Baltimore Ravens (WR)
2006 Univ. of San Diego (WR/QB)
2007–2009 Stanford (OC/WR)
2010 Stanford (OC/RB)
2011–present Stanford HC

bhsman
12-09-2013, 01:25 AM
Shaw would be my favorite non-defensive coach to run with; my only concerns is that he runs a very 'punch 'em in the mouth' offense and I don't know how well we'd transition to that with our smaller linemen. Brown, Myers, and Brooks could transition, as well as maybe Quessenberry and Jones (though Jones would have to be the backup center/heir apparent to Myers rather than have them both on the line in five-man formations), but Newton, Smith (who is likely cut), and any of our depth guys like Kupper and that guy we got back from the Eagles might not fit.

That said, I'd be more than happy with Shaw.

Texn4life
12-09-2013, 01:40 AM
I would be very good with this hire. He runs a very ugly, but effective offense at Stanford. A lot of that has to do with personnel though. I'm sure he'd have to convince Bob and Rick that he would find ways to involve AJ and maximize Hopkins potential. The running game would definitely be in good hands though.

Then it would boil down to who you have coaching on the defensive side of the ball. If Shwartz gets canned this year he may be a good DC hire to pair with Shaw. Someone that has some HC experience in the NFL.

Texian
12-09-2013, 07:38 AM
Please! Please! Please! Let it be so. That said, I can't imagine David Shaw taking a job where he has to work for/with a GM who thru the previous coaching staff under the bus. The same can be said for any other high profile well regarded prospective head coach. I am expecting a retread or more average and ordinary. It's the Houston Texans way.

DBCooper
12-09-2013, 08:06 AM
Please! Please! Please! Let it be so. That said, I can't imagine David Shaw taking a job where he has to work for/with a GM who thru the previous coaching staff under the bus. The same can be said for any other high profile well regarded prospective head coach. I am expecting a retread or more average and ordinary. It's the Houston Texans way.

You sound like a broken record.

I don't get this "threw him under the bus" mentality. Kubes had his chance and the NFL passed him by.

I'm not saying Rick Smith doesn't need to be fired also, but I don't think Kubiak was thrown under any bus, he needed to go.

Texian
12-09-2013, 08:11 AM
You sound like a broken record.

I don't get this "threw him under the bus" mentality. Kubes had his chance and the NFL passed him by.

I'm not saying Rick Smith doesn't need to be fired also, but I don't think Kubiak was thrown under any bus, he needed to go.

I agree Kubiak needed to go, I have been saying wanting that for 3 years. That doesn't excuse the fact that Smith did in fact throw the coaching staff under the bus. You may think it's immaterial but I assure it hasn't gone unnoticed in the coaching community. It will be a factor with those coaches with high aspirations. In the back of any new perspective coach's mind, they will be thinking, anything that I do that this buffoon doesn't agree with or doesn't like he will be on the phone to Peter King and/or NFL Network trashing me and my coaches.

DexmanC
12-09-2013, 08:23 AM
I agree Kubiak needed to go, I have been saying wanting that for 3 years. That doesn't excuse the fact that Smith did in fact throw the coaching staff under the bus. You may think it's immaterial but I assure it hasn't gone unnoticed in the coaching community. It will be a factor with those coaches with high aspirations. In the back of any new perspective coach's mind, they will be thinking, anything that I do that this buffoon doesn't agree with or doesn't like he will be on the phone to Peter King and/or NFL Network trashing me and my coaches.

The consensus around the NFL is that Kubiak's failure to coach up the talent, not the Texans' current level of talent, is why this team is the dumpster fire that it is. Talent evaluation is to the credit of the GM. Rick Smith gets credit for that. If anyone threw Kubiak under the bus, it was his own players. I'd never seen a more non-disciplined team in my life than what we witnessed on Thursday Night. The whole country was watching that debacle. That, more than anything else, ended Kubiak's season early.

This will be his first Kubiak-free draft. Let's see how he does.

Texian
12-09-2013, 09:00 AM
You sound like a broken record.

I don't get this "threw him under the bus" mentality. Kubes had his chance and the NFL passed him by.

I'm not saying Rick Smith doesn't need to be fired also, but I don't think Kubiak was thrown under any bus, he needed to go.

The consensus around the NFL is that Kubiak's failure to coach up the talent, not the Texans' current level of talent, is why this team is the dumpster fire that it is. Talent evaluation is to the credit of the GM. Rick Smith gets credit for that. If anyone threw Kubiak under the bus, it was his own players. I'd never seen a more non-disciplined team in my life than what we witnessed on Thursday Night. The whole country was watching that debacle. That, more than anything else, ended Kubiak's season early.

This will be his first Kubiak-free draft. Let's see how he does.

This is not about Kubiak. As of Friday Kubiak is no longer a Houston Texan. A month ago Ian Rapoport reported this on the air and in print:

The interesting part of Rapoport's report is that he said the Texans' front office is "a bit frustrated" with Kubiak and the rest of his coaching staff.

The frustration stems from coaches having too much draft input and keeping stars on the field too long. Rapoport elaborated on the last point, saying that the front office believes the lack of a defensive-line rotation leads to wearing down late in games."

Simple Question: How do you convince a new perspective Head Coach that this is not going to happen to him and his coaching staff?

GuerillaBlack
12-09-2013, 09:22 AM
This is not about Kubiak. As of Friday Kubiak is no longer a Houston Texan. A month ago Ian Rapoport reported this on the air and in print:

The interesting part of Rapoport's report is that he said the Texans' front office is "a bit frustrated" with Kubiak and the rest of his coaching staff.

The frustration stems from coaches having too much draft input and keeping stars on the field too long. Rapoport elaborated on the last point, saying that the front office believes the lack of a defensive-line rotation leads to wearing down late in games."

Simple Question: How do you convince a new perspective Head Coach that this is not going to happen to him and his coaching staff?

This stuff happens all the time before a coach firing. Not a big deal if you do your job.

2slik4u
12-09-2013, 09:29 AM
This is not about Kubiak. As of Friday Kubiak is no longer a Houston Texan. A month ago Ian Rapoport reported this on the air and in print:

The interesting part of Rapoport's report is that he said the Texans' front office is "a bit frustrated" with Kubiak and the rest of his coaching staff.

The frustration stems from coaches having too much draft input and keeping stars on the field too long. Rapoport elaborated on the last point, saying that the front office believes the lack of a defensive-line rotation leads to wearing down late in games."

Simple Question: How do you convince a new perspective Head Coach that this is not going to happen to him and his coaching staff?

It's simple. When you are winning and showing progress you will not hear complaints from FO. When you are on an 8 game losing streak (assuming that's about when the article was written) and have taken many big steps in the WRONG direction you will start to hear "suggestions" from the Brass.

This is nothing to new to the NFL. It doesn't mean they are throwing the coaching staff under the bus. To me, honestly, it shows that the FO is just as frustrated as the fans and this their way of letting us know that they see what is going on without coming out saying they are going to can him.

As said once before - winning cures everything. Progress certainly helps as well.

ObsiWan
12-09-2013, 09:42 AM
This is not about Kubiak. As of Friday Kubiak is no longer a Houston Texan. A month ago Ian Rapoport reported this on the air and in print:

The interesting part of Rapoport's report is that he said the Texans' front office is "a bit frustrated" with Kubiak and the rest of his coaching staff.

The frustration stems from coaches having too much draft input and keeping stars on the field too long. Rapoport elaborated on the last point, saying that the front office believes the lack of a defensive-line rotation leads to wearing down late in games."

Simple Question: How do you convince a new perspective Head Coach that this is not going to happen to him and his coaching staff?

So was that an inaccurate assessment?
I don't think it was.
How many games did we have a half-time lead only to see a tired defense give it up??
How many of us wonder why our pass rush was non-existent outside of J.J. Watt and the occasional Ninja sack?
Would a D-line kept fresh by more frequent rotation made our defense more effective? Who knows for sure. But the "front office" wasn't the only group wondering about it.

markn
12-09-2013, 09:46 AM
Question: How do you convince a new perspective Head Coach that this is not going to happen to him and his coaching staff?

You don't. It should be obvious to any experienced head coach that if he coaches a team down to an eleven game losing streak he will be thrown under the bus.

cuppacoffee
12-09-2013, 09:49 AM
Please! Please! Please! Let it be so. That said, I can't imagine David Shaw taking a job where he has to work for/with a GM who thru the previous coaching staff under the bus. The same can be said for any other high profile well regarded prospective head coach. I am expecting a retread or more average and ordinary. It's the Houston Texans way.


Were you even paying attention.

McNair threw Kubiak under the bus, if that's what you want to call firing someone.

I suspect McNair instructed Smith to just sit there and let me do the talking.

McNair was obviously pizzed at the teams performance in Jax, and anyone who opened their trap would have been shown the door along with Kubiak.

Smiths job now is to identify the quitters on the team and show them the door.

:coffee:

Uncle Rico
12-09-2013, 09:52 AM
Hate to be that guy, but Shaws resume isn't that impressive to me. 2 yrs calling plays and 1 as a head coach. That's it? What's the fascination? Did he inherit was Harbaugh left behind?

Exascor
12-09-2013, 09:56 AM
Hate to be that guy, but Shaws resume isn't that impressive to me. 2 yrs calling plays and 1 as a head coach. That's it? What's the fascination? Did he inherit was Harbaugh left behind?

The only thing that is impressive to me is that he sustained success after losing Luck. His offense is scary boring.

Hervoyel
12-09-2013, 10:05 AM
The consensus around the NFL is that Kubiak's failure to coach up the talent, not the Texans' current level of talent, is why this team is the dumpster fire that it is. Talent evaluation is to the credit of the GM. Rick Smith gets credit for that. If anyone threw Kubiak under the bus, it was his own players. I'd never seen a more non-disciplined team in my life than what we witnessed on Thursday Night. The whole country was watching that debacle. That, more than anything else, ended Kubiak's season early.

This will be his first Kubiak-free draft. Let's see how he does.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/IDontOftenDexmanC.jpg

Look, Rick Smith isn't going anywhere anytime soon and you can approach this incontrovertible fact in one of two ways. You can ***** and moan about him deserving to be run out of town or you can hope that the man is a better GM without Gary Kubiak in the building than he was with Gary Kubiak in the building. The Texans did that whole Coach-GM hiring thing backwards and it put Smith in a position where he was required to be Gary Kubiak's yes man. At the same time he was often praised for finding talent right off the street when we had guys go down. there is some evidence that the man can do the job.

What do you want to do? I'm hoping he's going to be better going forward.

2slik4u
12-09-2013, 10:14 AM
Hate to be that guy, but Shaws resume isn't that impressive to me. 2 yrs calling plays and 1 as a head coach. That's it? What's the fascination? Did he inherit was Harbaugh left behind?

He put together a hell of a season (2013) without the likes of Andrew Luck.

That's pretty good...not saying he should be crowned but I certainly think he is an "up and comer" when it comes to new, young head coaches.

Texian
12-09-2013, 10:23 AM
So was that an inaccurate assessment?
I don't think it was.
How many games did we have a half-time lead only to see a tired defense give it up??
How many of us wonder why our pass rush was non-existent outside of J.J. Watt and the occasional Ninja sack?
Would a D-line kept fresh by more frequent rotation made our defense more effective? Who knows for sure. But the "front office" wasn't the only group wondering about it.

It may all be true, every bit of it. But why the need to discuss it in the National Media?

You don't. It should be obvious to any experienced head coach that if he coaches a team down to an eleven game losing streak he will be thrown under the bus.

Sure but you don't take that situation and turn it into a situation where if there are 5-6 NFL head coaching jobs available your opening is only the 4th, 5th or 6th best job available because of your loose lipped GM trashed the coaching staff just to save his own job.

Uncle Rico
12-09-2013, 10:24 AM
He put together a hell of a season (2013) without the likes of Andrew Luck.

That's pretty good...not saying he should be crowned but I certainly think he is an "up and comer" when it comes to new, young head coaches.

I get that, but 1 year? I'd like to see a bigger body of work before committing the next 5 year's to the guy. Seems to me he just took Harbaughs last 2 recruiting classes and ran with it.

It's not like he built the program like let's say an Art Briles has. In 2 different schools. I mean think about it BAYLOR is ranked 6th in the country. That's crazy when that program was a laughingstock for decades. Same to a lesser extent what he did at UofH , brought them back to respectability. Just sayin'

I would prefer some NFL head coaching experience myself.

markn
12-09-2013, 10:30 AM
Sure but you don't take that situation and turn it into a situation where if there are 5-6 NFL head coaching jobs available your opening is only the 4th, 5th or 6th best job available because of your loose lipped GM trashed the coaching staff just to save his own job.

I think you're overdoing the smith factor here. I'm no fan (check the avatar), but I'm pretty sure this kind of politicking goes on every time a team goes into meltdown.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk

Texian
12-09-2013, 10:30 AM
I get that, but 1 year? I'd like to see a bigger body of work before committing the next 5 year's to the guy. Seems to me he just took Harbaughs last 2 recruiting classes and ran with it.

The reason I like him is because his teams are always well prepared and in all 3 phases of the game. They play hard and physical the whole game.

Jackie Chiles
12-09-2013, 10:42 AM
Hate to be that guy, but Shaws resume isn't that impressive to me. 2 yrs calling plays and 1 as a head coach. That's it? What's the fascination? Did he inherit was Harbaugh left behind?

This is his third year as the head coach though. 11-2, 12-2 and currently 11-2 right now. Also OC is listed on his resume from 07-10 so that looks like more than 2 years calling plays.

Texian
12-09-2013, 10:45 AM
I think you're overdoing the smith factor here. I'm no fan (check the avatar), but I'm pretty sure this kind of politicking goes on every time a team goes into meltdown.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk

Maybe so but if you're David Shaw and you've your choice of Tampa w/ full control, Washington w/ RGIII and Houston were the last coaching staff was excoriated in the national media by the GM you'll be working for, where are you going? This is why Lovie Smith is likely to be the next coach, just so he can get back in coaching. If you read tea leaves this is also what Smith's cozy media buddies are saying.

ace
12-09-2013, 10:50 AM
http://www.footballphds.com/2013/12/07/congratulations-stanfords-david-shaw-will-be-the-houston-texans-next-coach/

I like the way he thinks!

Big Lou
12-09-2013, 10:52 AM
This is not about Kubiak. As of Friday Kubiak is no longer a Houston Texan. A month ago Ian Rapoport reported this on the air and in print:

The interesting part of Rapoport's report is that he said the Texans' front office is "a bit frustrated" with Kubiak and the rest of his coaching staff.

The frustration stems from coaches having too much draft input and keeping stars on the field too long. Rapoport elaborated on the last point, saying that the front office believes the lack of a defensive-line rotation leads to wearing down late in games."

Simple Question: How do you convince a new perspective Head Coach that this is not going to happen to him and his coaching staff?

You just tell the new hire, win games and you won't hear sh!t..........

Big Lou
12-09-2013, 10:57 AM
Maybe so but if you're David Shaw and you've your choice of Tampa w/ full control, Washington w/ RGIII and Houston were the last coaching staff was excoriated in the national media by the GM you'll be working for, where are you going? This is why Lovie Smith is likely to be the next coach, just so he can get back in coaching. If you read tea leaves this is also what Smith's cozy media buddies are saying.

Excoriated is a little strong. Also anyone dropping 11 in a row has a big target on thier back. Now, a team being discussed to go to the SB dropping 11 in a row and you get a bit more attention.

A team that went 12-4 the year before, won two division titles in a row in a weak division, with a plethora of talent, what do you think will happen on the 425 hours of weekly NFL related programing? Is Rick suppossed to defend that, I don't think so. Besides the reports were leaked and hinted at disagreements not full on fighting, it wasn't like Rick Smith had a press conference, and said "Gary's is the dumbest HC I've every come across in the NFL, and doesn't deserve to be a water boy in Pee Wee Football".

cstyle42
12-09-2013, 10:58 AM
Maybe so but if you're David Shaw and you've your choice of Tampa w/ full control, Washington w/ RGIII and Houston were the last coaching staff was excoriated in the national media by the GM you'll be working for, where are you going? This is why Lovie Smith is likely to be the next coach, just so he can get back in coaching. If you read tea leaves this is also what Smith's cozy media buddies are saying.

Houston where I can draft my own qb with JJ Watt, Andre Johnson, Arian Foster and Brian Cushing as my foundation.

IDEXAN
12-09-2013, 11:02 AM
He's young, he's a Bro, he's got NFL experience without having any "NFL HC retread" stigma, and he's from a popular college with the media that has real student-jocks where it's thought to be more challenging for the coach to win because of higher academic standards which precludes many top prospects from getting admission who otherwise have easy access to the 'Bamas, UTs, FSUs, etc.
Did I miss anything ?

Texian
12-09-2013, 11:14 AM
Houston where I can draft my own qb with JJ Watt, Andre Johnson, Arian Foster and Brian Cushing as my foundation.

More likely it will be Miami where everyone gets fired, Shaw gets full control and a franchise QB. Franchise QB trumps Watt.

texanhead08
12-09-2013, 11:19 AM
Shaw would be my favorite non-defensive coach to run with; my only concerns is that he runs a very 'punch 'em in the mouth' offense and I don't know how well we'd transition to that with our smaller linemen. Brown, Myers, and Brooks could transition, as well as maybe Quessenberry and Jones (though Jones would have to be the backup center/heir apparent to Myers rather than have them both on the line in five-man formations), but Newton, Smith (who is likely cut), and any of our depth guys like Kupper and that guy we got back from the Eagles might not fit.

That said, I'd be more than happy with Shaw.

We need to get some big uglies then and I would be more than happy I am hoping this happens. Shaw is my favorite candidate and if he makes us an offense that plays physical it should eliminate some of our red zone issues.

cstyle42
12-09-2013, 11:19 AM
More likely it will be Miami where everyone gets fired, Shaw gets full control and a franchise QB. Franchise QB trumps Watt.

Franchise QB? You talking about Ryan who?

infantrycak
12-09-2013, 11:29 AM
More likely it will be Miami where everyone gets fired, Shaw gets full control and a franchise QB. Franchise QB trumps Watt.

The report today is Ireland is safe.

You didn't like Smith being retained and are now parade of horribles denigrating the decision.

nero THE zero
12-09-2013, 11:32 AM
Fairly certain if you polled 32 NFL GM's and asked whether they'd rather start a franchise with JJ Watt or Ryan Tannehill, 33 of them would pick JJ Watt.

beerlover
12-09-2013, 11:33 AM
Would be amazing if true!

markn
12-09-2013, 11:36 AM
Maybe so but if you're David Shaw and you've your choice of Tampa w/ full control, Washington w/ RGIII and Houston were the last coaching staff was excoriated in the national media by the GM you'll be working for, where are you going? This is why Lovie Smith is likely to be the next coach, just so he can get back in coaching. If you read tea leaves this is also what Smith's cozy media buddies are saying.

I'd take the Texans relatively loaded roster and #1 pick over those teams. I think we're a very attractive destination.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk

steelbtexan
12-09-2013, 11:46 AM
The consensus around the NFL is that Kubiak's failure to coach up the talent, not the Texans' current level of talent, is why this team is the dumpster fire that it is. Talent evaluation is to the credit of the GM. Rick Smith gets credit for that. If anyone threw Kubiak under the bus, it was his own players. I'd never seen a more non-disciplined team in my life than what we witnessed on Thursday Night. The whole country was watching that debacle. That, more than anything else, ended Kubiak's season early.

This will be his first Kubiak-free draft. Let's see how he does.

Then I disagree with the consensus around the NFL.

Tell me more about all of this talent on the Texans roster?

QB? Who's the QB next yr
RB ? Who will be the RB next yr with Foster likely not making it back from back surgery and Tate likely gone.
OL? 2/5 ths of the OL are terrible and need to be replaced, We're counting on a 6th rd rookie coming off of injury to come in and start and a guy coming off of microfracture surgery as depth.
WR's AJ is great, Hopkins has potential but there's nobody that strike fear into a defense and can take the top off of a defense. Hopefully Posey can become that guy.

Defense
DL? Watt and maybe A.Smith if he restructures are OK. Mitchell/Troup/Jamison/Crick are JAGS.
LB's Other than Cushing Who's hurt more often than not, the rest are just a bunch of JAGS.
DB's CB's Joseph appears to be hurt again and just a shell of his former self. KJ has regressed, not to 2010 levels. But to avg NFL CB standards. McCain should be cut tomorrow. Safties, Swearinger is a rookie with some potential but he's a hot head and reminds me of Pollard. Those type S are going out of style in todays NFL. Keo should never be starting on an NFL playoff contending team. Manning, needs to prove he can make it back from injury and was the best DB on the team before getting hurt. That says something.
K. Fat Randy, Do you believe in him?
P Lechler, HOF'er

In short I dont see all of this supposed talent, There's no pass rush, there needs to be a big nasty to help stop the running game in the middle and the DB's are avg when healthy at best.

Offense, No QB/RB and an OL that just plain stinks with little to no depth.

houstonhurricane
12-09-2013, 11:48 AM
Right now, Shaw is the only name that excites me. Sure, he may be more of an unknown commodity than Lovie Smith or Wisenhunt, but I really like the upside and think he could grow into exactly the type of coach we need now...and into the future.

Texian
12-09-2013, 12:05 PM
The report today is Ireland is safe.

You didn't like Smith being retained and are now parade of horribles denigrating the decision.

I don't know about a parade, pointing out consequences that could follow the decision, GUILTY!

Texian
12-09-2013, 12:12 PM
Fairly certain if you polled 32 NFL GM's and asked whether they'd rather start a franchise with JJ Watt or Ryan Tannehill, 33 of them would pick JJ Watt.

Don't bet heavily. The Texans have JJ Watt and they're 2-11, the Dolphins have Tannehill are 7-6 trying to make the playoffs. Make no mistake, a good QB always trumps a great Defensive player.

houstonspartan
12-09-2013, 12:14 PM
Please! Please! Please! Let it be so. That said, I can't imagine David Shaw taking a job where he has to work for/with a GM who thru the previous coaching staff under the bus. The same can be said for any other high profile well regarded prospective head coach. I am expecting a retread or more average and ordinary. It's the Houston Texans way.

Give me a break. Using phrases like "threw under the bus" to describe what happened is overly-dramatic and hyperbolic. And untrue.

I'm not saying that Smith doesn't deserve some blame for this mess. He does; but say that evaluating the staff and concluding that changes (finally) needed to be made is not throwing anyone under the bus. It's managing, which Smith and McNair have been poor at.

If you screw up at work, and your boss constantly gives you opportunities to improve, and yet you don't improve, your boss may likely let you go. That's not throwing you under the bus.

Double Barrel
12-09-2013, 12:15 PM
McNair is setting up the next HC to be in a high pressure "win now" situation with his comments at the Kubiak press conference.

I would not doubt that many coaches like Shaw do not want that type of immediate gratification demand put on them. They will not be given much room to build long term when playoffs are expected in 2014.

Money can only talk so much when someone is happy where they are at. Shaw is a king at Stanford. Why risk being a court jester if he cannot produce quickly enough?

I like the idea of Shaw, but I seriously doubt that he comes to H-town.

Texian
12-09-2013, 12:19 PM
Give me a break. Using phrases like "threw under the bus" to describe what happened is overly-dramatic and hyperbolic. And untrue.

I'm not saying that Smith doesn't deserve some blame for this mess. He does; but say that evaluating the staff and concluding that changes (finally) needed to be made is not throwing anyone under the bus. It's managing, which Smith and McNair have been poor at.

If you screw up at work, and your boss constantly gives you opportunities to improve, and yet you don't improve, your boss may likely let you go. That's not throwing you under the bus.

That's exactly what Smith did. He used the National Media to save his own butt and his job. What you say is true but there is no reason whatsoever for him to whine to the National Media. Why go to the media at all? It served only one purpose, saving Rick Smith. It will come back to bite him and the Texans in the butt.

Playoffs
12-09-2013, 12:23 PM
McNair is setting up the next HC to be in a high pressure "win now" situation with his comments at the Kubiak press conference.

I would not doubt that many coaches like Shaw do not want that type of immediate gratification demand put on them. They will not be given much room to build long term when playoffs are expected in 2014.

Money can only talk so much when someone is happy where they are at. Shaw is a king at Stanford. Why risk being a court jester if he cannot produce quickly enough?

I like the idea of Shaw, but I seriously doubt that he comes to H-town.

But McNair has also shown a desire to stick with his HC longer than many other owners may have. I think the Texans is one of the better jobs to have.

I like the idea of Shaw in the sense that the NFL is an all offense/all QB league. (Yesterday was the single day all time record for TDs). I just hope he has the ability to innovate/adjust, because the league will catch up to what you're doing. Ask Pep Hamilton about that, who comes from Stanford as well.

michaelm
12-09-2013, 12:33 PM
McNair is setting up the next HC to be in a high pressure "win now" situation with his comments at the Kubiak press conference.

I would not doubt that many coaches like Shaw do not want that type of immediate gratification demand put on them. They will not be given much room to build long term when playoffs are expected in 2014.

Money can only talk so much when someone is happy where they are at. Shaw is a king at Stanford. Why risk being a court jester if he cannot produce quickly enough?

I like the idea of Shaw, but I seriously doubt that he comes to H-town.

I understand your point, but McNair has also shown that he will stick with his HC for longer than most owners would. The new HC would be under pressure to win right away, but failing to win next year or even the next wouldn't put that coach on the hot seat, IMO.

CretorFrigg
12-09-2013, 12:39 PM
But McNair has also shown a desire to stick with his HC longer than many other owners may have. I think the Texans is one of the better jobs to have.

I don't know if it's one of the better jobs to have. A lot of head coaches want power and control of what he's coaching. He wants his pick of GM, etc. It appears Rick Smith is still here, and all McNair wants to do is hire a new HC. I don't known how attractive that sounds to head coaches that want to put in their own guys.

Double Barrel
12-09-2013, 12:55 PM
I understand your point, but McNair has also shown that he will stick with his HC for longer than most owners would. The new HC would be under pressure to win right away, but failing to win next year or even the next wouldn't put that coach on the hot seat, IMO.

Past performance is not always indicative of future decisions. Often, yes, but not always. McNair might have learned a lesson about being "too patient" with Kubiak.

As far as the rest, I'm only going on the owner's words a few days ago. He specifically stated that he expects immediate success in 2014 to the point of competing for the playoffs. That does not sound like the words of a patient man at the moment.

You are probably right that he would keep a new head coach longer than a year or two. So McNair is a bit at odds with his current desires versus his past tendencies.

My point still stands, though, that the new head coach will not be allowed a rebuild, so it is a bit of a high pressure situation than other teams that are allowing head coaches to build their own foundations.

For all we know, Shaw could be a coach that wants to build from the ground up. We do not know much about him other than Stanford being his dream job and as of last December, his last head coach interview (his words). I'm not getting my hopes up about Shaw, all things considered.

Vinny
12-09-2013, 01:08 PM
Past performance is not always indicative of future decisions. Often, yes, but not always. McNair might have learned a lesson about being "too patient" with Kubiak.

As far as the rest, I'm only going on the owner's words a few days ago. He specifically stated that he expects immediate success in 2014 to the point of competing for the playoffs. That does not sound like the words of a patient man at the moment.

You are probably right that he would keep a new head coach longer than a year or two. So McNair is a bit at odds with his current desires versus his past tendencies.

My point still stands, though, that the new head coach will not be allowed a rebuild, so it is a bit of a high pressure situation than other teams that are allowing head coaches to build their own foundations.

For all we know, Shaw could be a coach that wants to build from the ground up. We do not know much about him other than Stanford being his dream job and as of last December, his last head coach interview (his words). I'm not getting my hopes up about Shaw, all things considered.
McNair is setting himself up for another round of the Emperor's new clothing. Everyone telling him what he wants to hear (yeah we can win with Carr).

McNair should shut his trap about what he wants and let his GM pick the next coach or find a stronger GM. If the "football people" determine that we should rebuild, we should rebuild. If the "football people" determine that we need to tweak and reload, we should tweak and reload. This mandate from an owner who has proven he doesn't know what he is doing on football related matters is growing kinda old to this old dog of a fan.

Marcus
12-09-2013, 01:10 PM
Then I disagree with the consensus around the NFL.

Tell me more about all of this talent on the Texans roster?

QB? Who's the QB next yr
RB ? Who will be the RB next yr with Foster likely not making it back from back surgery and Tate likely gone.
OL? 2/5 ths of the OL are terrible and need to be replaced, We're counting on a 6th rd rookie coming off of injury to come in and start and a guy coming off of microfracture surgery as depth.
WR's AJ is great, Hopkins has potential but there's nobody that strike fear into a defense and can take the top off of a defense. Hopefully Posey can become that guy.

Defense
DL? Watt and maybe A.Smith if he restructures are OK. Mitchell/Troup/Jamison/Crick are JAGS.
LB's Other than Cushing Who's hurt more often than not, the rest are just a bunch of JAGS.
DB's CB's Joseph appears to be hurt again and just a shell of his former self. KJ has regressed, not to 2010 levels. But to avg NFL CB standards. McCain should be cut tomorrow. Safties, Swearinger is a rookie with some potential but he's a hot head and reminds me of Pollard. Those type S are going out of style in todays NFL. Keo should never be starting on an NFL playoff contending team. Manning, needs to prove he can make it back from injury and was the best DB on the team before getting hurt. That says something.
K. Fat Randy, Do you believe in him?
P Lechler, HOF'er

In short I dont see all of this supposed talent, There's no pass rush, there needs to be a big nasty to help stop the running game in the middle and the DB's are avg when healthy at best.

Offense, No QB/RB and an OL that just plain stinks with little to no depth.

I know you're gonna fall out of your chair in shock, but I absolutely agree with your assessment.

You don't know how many times I want to choke someone who utters this "we've got too much talent on this team" nonsense.

The fact is, we don't. And it's going to take a lot more than a high draft pick QB, and a new hire HC to get back on the winning track.

The Pencil Neck
12-09-2013, 01:10 PM
Don't bet heavily. The Texans have JJ Watt and they're 2-11, the Dolphins have Tannehill are 7-6 trying to make the playoffs. Make no mistake, a good QB always trumps a great Defensive player.

OTOH, we have the #1 pick in the draft and he'll be able to choose whichever QB he wants. Drafting a QB automatically gives you an extra year or two of development time and the guy he gets will probably be better than Tannehill if he plays his cards right.

With AJ and Hopkins on the outside and OD/GG at TE, he'll have people to throw to. With Duane Brown and Chris Myers, he'll have a couple of OL pieces to build around. And at RB... well... see...

On the defensive side... well... there's JJ. And. Um. Some injured guys. And some underperforming guys. But they're #3 in Yards Allowed!? (And #32 in take-aways.)

I think it's more of a wash between the Texans and the Dolphins. They have the stigma of that whole bullying thing and a GM who possibly has an even worse reputation than Rick Smith.

Double Barrel
12-09-2013, 01:24 PM
McNair is setting himself up for another round of the Emperor's new clothing. Everyone telling him what he wants to hear (yeah we can win with Carr).

McNair should shut his trap about what he wants and let his GM pick the next coach or find a stronger GM. If the "football people" determine that we should rebuild, we should rebuild. If the "football people" determine that we need to tweak and reload, we should tweak and reload. This mandate from an owner who has proven he doesn't know what he is doing on football related matters is growing kinda old to this old dog of a fan.

I was a bit surprised by McNair's words when I read the whole thing. His little diatribe about hiring a coach who used to be a player was unusual. Seemed like a little jab at Kubiak. There have been quite a few successful head coaches in the NFL that used to play pro ball.

And I do not recall an owner ever saying something like "we are a lot more talented than XXX (Jaguars in this case)". His team just got dominated twice by the Jags, and it was weird to see him say those words.

He's got a yes-man with Rick Smith. Dude is almost family now. So yeah, the Emperor will be streaking through the halls of Reliant and everyone will tell him his imaginary robes look mah-velous.

It's like a pendulum sometimes. The insistence on Keenum from the owner is a very Jerrah-esque thing. That should have been a statement from Rick Smith, IMO, not the owner.

I do not see this team being in a sure-fire position to be playoff caliber in 2014. I think there are some vital areas that need to be addressed (starting at QB!). But whatever, it's his team. And these are just my fan observations.

Yesterday
12-09-2013, 01:25 PM
Shaw isn't leaving Stanford.

cuppacoffee
12-09-2013, 01:26 PM
Then I disagree with the consensus around the NFL.

Tell me more about all of this talent on the Texans roster?

QB? Who's the QB next yr
RB ? Who will be the RB next yr with Foster likely not making it back from back surgery and Tate likely gone.
OL? 2/5 ths of the OL are terrible and need to be replaced, We're counting on a 6th rd rookie coming off of injury to come in and start and a guy coming off of microfracture surgery as depth.
WR's AJ is great, Hopkins has potential but there's nobody that strike fear into a defense and can take the top off of a defense. Hopefully Posey can become that guy.

Defense
DL? Watt and maybe A.Smith if he restructures are OK. Mitchell/Troup/Jamison/Crick are JAGS.
LB's Other than Cushing Who's hurt more often than not, the rest are just a bunch of JAGS.
DB's CB's Joseph appears to be hurt again and just a shell of his former self. KJ has regressed, not to 2010 levels. But to avg NFL CB standards. McCain should be cut tomorrow. Safties, Swearinger is a rookie with some potential but he's a hot head and reminds me of Pollard. Those type S are going out of style in todays NFL. Keo should never be starting on an NFL playoff contending team. Manning, needs to prove he can make it back from injury and was the best DB on the team before getting hurt. That says something.
K. Fat Randy, Do you believe in him?
P Lechler, HOF'er

In short I dont see all of this supposed talent, There's no pass rush, there needs to be a big nasty to help stop the running game in the middle and the DB's are avg when healthy at best.

Offense, No QB/RB and an OL that just plain stinks with little to no depth.


Agree.

I stated several months ago that this fan base was overrating the talent on this team.

Maybe not as suspect as I originally thought, due to apparent poor coaching, but overrated non the less.


:coffee:

Vinny
12-09-2013, 01:31 PM
McNair is setting himself up for another round of the Emperor's new clothing. Everyone telling him what he wants to hear (yeah we can win with Carr).

McNair should shut his trap about what he wants and let his GM pick the next coach or find a stronger GM. If the "football people" determine that we should rebuild, we should rebuild. If the "football people" determine that we need to tweak and reload, we should tweak and reload. This mandate from an owner who has proven he doesn't know what he is doing on football related matters is growing kinda old to this old dog of a fan.

I was a bit surprised by McNair's words when I read the whole thing. His little diatribe about hiring a coach who used to be a player was unusual. Seemed like a little jab at Kubiak. There have been quite a few successful head coaches in the NFL that used to play pro ball.

And I do not recall an owner ever saying something like "we are a lot more talented than XXX (Jaguars in this case)". His team just got dominated twice by the Jags, and it was weird to see him say those words.

He's got a yes-man with Rick Smith. Dude is almost family now. So yeah, the Emperor will be streaking through the halls of Reliant and everyone will tell him his imaginary robes look mah-velous.

It's like a pendulum sometimes. The insistence on Keenum from the owner is a very Jerrah-esque thing. That should have been a statement from Rick Smith, IMO, not the owner.

I do not see this team being in a sure-fire position to be playoff caliber in 2014. I think there are some vital areas that need to be addressed (starting at QB!). But whatever, it's his team. And these are just my fan observations.
For years we the fans have argued amongst ourselves about who is calling the shots and who is responsible for a multitude of decisions over at Kirby drive. Most organizations have a clear power structure. How is it that the Texans are not a top-down organization? Because we went about the process backwards last time? Did we learn any lessons or does the Owner stroll out and name the starting QB and not once defer to his GM that seems to be neutered. Bob sitting there with his Son to one side and his powerless GM who apparently has no say in important football decisions on the other. Not real inspiring.

Hervoyel
12-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Then I disagree with the consensus around the NFL.

Tell me more about all of this talent on the Texans roster?

....

Offense, No QB/RB and an OL that just plain stinks with little to no depth.

I'd like to take a shot at this because generally we spend some time on the same page where this team is concerned.

The Talent....

QB.

We need one. Up until this season we had Schaub and I have never seen anything that would indicate that he wasn't exactly what our HC wanted. Gary went and got him, Gary placed a lot of faith in him, and Gary stuck with him too long and then tried to bring him back. We have a pair of fairly ordinary backups who have flashed at times but clearly aren't ready (or most likely capable) to be starters. That's what draft picks are for and we have a deep bunch of QB prospects to pick from. If we don't want a rookie QB and prefer to find a FA then we're going to be able to. Schaub is not coming back.

RB.

Arian Foster was hurt. Injuries happen and you can't point to one and say we didn't find any talent at RB. Ben Tate has played pretty well all things considered. He isn't the Zone back that Foster is but he's talented. Cierre Wood was talented and I think actually a better fit than Tate for what we were doing. We'll never know now (sadly) but that isn't a matter of lack of talent. Dennis Johnson has played well for us this year and didn't even make the team. No one has said anything about Arian Foster not being able to come back from this. Neither is anyone stupid enough to say "Hey, lets just assume that Arian will be back to normal. Sound good?" If we weren't going to try and sign Ben Tate before then maybe we make that move and try to do it now.... or maybe we don't. My point is that we've had talented running backs and we have found them in the UDFA pile often as well. We'll find more RB's I haven't a doubt in my mind about that.

OL.

Yes, we've got needs here. No doubt about it we've got needs. We have Duane Brown who will keep on trucking at LT, Chris Myers who might be able to put a little bit of weight on (maybe it's time to join Cushing and Watt in the weight room Chris) and a bunch of guys who are all prospects. I'd be looking for the best value FA guard around and hoping that one of the backups breaks out (Brooks, it's time to step it up.... Jones you might be our starting C next year). I'd draft Jake Matthews to be my RT and stick Quessenberry next to him (hopefully). I don't count on Brennan Williams at all but if he does return and can play then we're looking better already. One good FA and a 3rd round draft pick added to the mix and we'll be fine. There's talent here. It's not like we're talentless. If we could have simply figured out what the Texans weird fascination with Derrick Newton was and put an end to it then we'd have been in better shape all year long. Newton stinks as a RT but does he have any potential at RG? There is talent here I think. What's been missing is sensible decisions from the coaching staff. You put your best linemen out there and don't hold one back because you don't have a backup for another one. Harris should have been starting at RT all year. Newton should have had to beat him out of that job.

WR/TE

Plenty of talent here. AJ, Hopkins, and Posey are all fine WR's. Keyshawn Martin is a bit of a mess I admit but he should be really the 4th guy and how many teams have good WR's 4 deep much less 5? Posey is coming off of that injury and I think will have his turnaround season next year. He's run in the high 4.3's before and I think by and large the Texans just haven't used the talent they had at WR. Draft another one if you need to. Sign an UDFA if you like. Lestar Jean probably can go and it shouldn't be hard to replace. Again, I see talent here. Wasted talent but definitely talent.

DL and LB (Because they're tied together at the hip for us)

Obviously Watt is Watt. Antonio Smith has been a contributor. Actually in the long, ugly history of Texans FA acquisitions he's been a real star but assume that he restructures and that's 2-3 of your starting positions. We need a NT. We've needed one for years and passed up plenty of opportunities to get one through the draft or free agency. We just don't seem to have placed a very high priority on it. We need some talent here. Are we going to be playing a 3-4 or 4-3 though? That's a big question because the talent shortage at DL is tied to the talent shortage at LB. Where do we go get help?

I think Mitchell is out of place and is better suited to the 4-3 but I wouldn't call him talentless. He's better than that. He's not a NT but playing the position anyway. Maybe he could move over into the DE spot as a rotation guy if we get a real NT, or maybe we let him go and find someone better suited to the 3-4. I think guys like Jamison and Crick are indeed JAG's right now but I'm not convinced we've gotten everything we could out of Crick. You can replace them easily regardless and start over with more rookies.

Having said that LB isn't as rough as you're making it seem. Cushing yes, obviously he's the real thing and Doc says he's going to be back and playing at a high level despite the injury (or should be) but then there's Mercilus and Reed who are both talented players. Reed's being used poorly by Wade and his numbers reflect that and Mercilus is a second year guy who hasn't quite taken the leap. I think Reed belongs on the inside and Mercilus will continue to get better. We need depth here and I think the fact that Mays can come in and be such a contributor shows that we're closer to the old days of Zach Diles being a starter than we'd like to be. Barwin was a loss. DeMeco was a loss. We lost talent there but if we admit that then didn't we also originally find talent there? We need to find some more talent but the cupboard isn't bare.

DB

Jonathan Joseph is basically the same guy he always has been. We're just not on the QB two seconds after the ball is snapped like we were the year he looked fantastic. As the pass rush has declined so has JJo. Fix the pass rush and the old JJo will come back. We wanted to think we got a Revis/Asomough at a bargain price but we didn't. We got a good starter who isn't a shutdown corner. No big deal, most teams are in a never-ending quest for one just like us.

Kareem is a problem. he's a bad CB and only looked better because of that same vicious Wade-Phillips-Year-One pass rush that JJo benefitted from. We need CB's starting with Kareem who was a bad choice and who at best should be playing where McCain is. We probably need 2 more CB's to a) push Kareem down the depth chart, and b) send McCain home. Manning is also a good DB and a fine S. We should have kept Glover Quinn (More talent out the door) and now we need to find his replacement. Swearinger doesn't look like he's got the head for NFL ball but he might still come around. A lot of rookies look bad in their first year and I'm not ready to give up on him. We need to find some guys to push Keo back to the bench and pair with Manning if Swearinger doesn't step up.

K/P

Kickers are easy to find. Our punter is as good as they come.



Sure we have holes. Everyone has holes. We have more on the D side than the O I think and we've got some talent that hasn't been put to good use. I think that the Texans have more talent than many teams that just hit 2-11 and fired their head coach and I think coaching candidates will understand that and realize that this team is ripe for a fairly quick turnaround. Maybe not as fast as McNair would like but we're hardly in the kind of condition that we were following Capers 2-14 campaign.

DBCooper
12-09-2013, 01:56 PM
Maybe so but if you're David Shaw and you've your choice of Tampa w/ full control, Washington w/ RGIII and Houston were the last coaching staff was excoriated in the national media by the GM you'll be working for, where are you going? This is why Lovie Smith is likely to be the next coach, just so he can get back in coaching. If you read tea leaves this is also what Smith's cozy media buddies are saying.

Rick Smith the powerful GM tyrant?

I think you're confused.

thunderkyss
12-09-2013, 01:59 PM
I hope he does get an interview. Right now, I have no preference for who our next HC should be. I only have one preference for who it shouldn't be. His name rhymes with Wade Phillips.

The Pencil Neck
12-09-2013, 02:12 PM
I was a bit surprised by McNair's words when I read the whole thing. His little diatribe about hiring a coach who used to be a player was unusual. Seemed like a little jab at Kubiak. There have been quite a few successful head coaches in the NFL that used to play pro ball.


I watched that live and I was a little confused when he did that. He specifically sidestepped a question to go out and talk about coaches who can't separate themselves from the players. I think he's fine with a coach who used to be a player as long as that coach is able to make the hard decisions.

I think McNair was going after Kubiak for sticking with Schaub too long and possibly some other projects (like Newton) and possibly older players.


And I do not recall an owner ever saying something like "we are a lot more talented than XXX (Jaguars in this case)". His team just got dominated twice by the Jags, and it was weird to see him say those words.


I was shocked when he did that. It's just adding coaching points for the next time we play them. He didn't need to do that.

BUT!

It shows how he honestly feels, I think. And I think it showed his frustration with losing games he didn't think we should be losing.


He's got a yes-man with Rick Smith. Dude is almost family now. So yeah, the Emperor will be streaking through the halls of Reliant and everyone will tell him his imaginary robes look mah-velous.

It's like a pendulum sometimes. The insistence on Keenum from the owner is a very Jerrah-esque thing. That should have been a statement from Rick Smith, IMO, not the owner.


I think McNair has been trying hard to stay hands-off but I think he's been involved. I think he's seen Kubiak make decisions that have failed and possibly gone against Smith's suggestions.

McNair knows infinitely more about which person in the FO suggested which player be drafted or signed than we do. It may be that Rick was giving good advice that Kubiak and the rest of the staff was ignoring. I don't know.

I suspect Sam Montgomery was more of a Wade choice than a Smith choice.


I do not see this team being in a sure-fire position to be playoff caliber in 2014. I think there are some vital areas that need to be addressed (starting at QB!). But whatever, it's his team. And these are just my fan observations.

I want this team to rebound quickly and be back in the playoff hunt next year with the right coach and the right draft.

But I have a feeling there are too many things that can possibly go wrong and ruin that scenario. I'm sure at least one of them will go wrong.

CloakNNNdagger
12-09-2013, 02:19 PM
McNair is setting himself up for another round of the Emperor's new clothing. Everyone telling him what he wants to hear (yeah we can win with Carr).

McNair should shut his trap about what he wants and let his GM pick the next coach or find a stronger GM. If the "football people" determine that we should rebuild, we should rebuild. If the "football people" determine that we need to tweak and reload, we should tweak and reload. This mandate from an owner who has proven he doesn't know what he is doing on football related matters is growing kinda old to this old dog of a fan.

Exactly. Very similar to something I posted a couple of days ago.

Exascor
12-09-2013, 02:32 PM
McNair is setting up the next HC to be in a high pressure "win now" situation with his comments at the Kubiak press conference.

I would not doubt that many coaches like Shaw do not want that type of immediate gratification demand put on them. They will not be given much room to build long term when playoffs are expected in 2014.We don’t have to do a lot to get us back on track. We’re going to do everything we can to do that and we expect to be right back in playoff contention next year.Sorry DB, but I just don't agree that this is pressure for a new coach. If a coach doesn't have the confidence that he can get this team into playoff "contention" then please don't hire them. McNair didn't say "I expect this team to get to the playoffs next season."

For years we the fans have argued amongst ourselves about who is calling the shots and who is responsible for a multitude of decisions over at Kirby drive. Most organizations have a clear power structure. How is it that the Texans are not a top-down organization? Because we went about the process backwards last time? Did we learn any lessons or does the Owner stroll out and name the starting QB and not once defer to his GM that seems to be neutered. Bob sitting there with his Son to one side and his powerless GM who apparently has no say in important football decisions on the other. Not real inspiring.I agree with the top down structure being best. The problem is, we just don't know for sure what McNair thinks of Smith. Maybe he's evaluating him still. IMO, by taking charge of the presser, McNair actually showed that might be the case. It's still logical that he show Smith respect by having him at the presser because he may be here next season. The other thing that could be likely is a coach/GM team (yeah might suck) coming in again. What if McNair really wants a specific coach and the rest of the options he sees as equal or downgrades from Kubiak? What if that coach says he wants control of personnel or wants to bring in a different GM? Happens so maybe he's keeping the door open.

infantrycak
12-09-2013, 02:42 PM
And I do not recall an owner ever saying something like "we are a lot more talented than XXX (Jaguars in this case)". His team just got dominated twice by the Jags, and it was weird to see him say those words.


I don't remember a lot of the detail of mid-season firing press conferences, do you? McNair was being repeatedly asked why now.

For years we the fans have argued amongst ourselves about who is calling the shots and who is responsible for a multitude of decisions over at Kirby drive. Most organizations have a clear power structure. How is it that the Texans are not a top-down organization? Because we went about the process backwards last time? Did we learn any lessons or does the Owner stroll out and name the starting QB and not once defer to his GM that seems to be neutered. Bob sitting there with his Son to one side and his powerless GM who apparently has no say in important football decisions on the other. Not real inspiring.

Exactly. Very similar to something I posted a couple of days ago.

I think that model can still work but it may not even be the majority any more and there are successful programs that do not follow it. Think of basically every coaching candidate with stroke and they are said to want control.

Exascor
12-09-2013, 02:48 PM
I'd like to take a shot at this because generally we spend some time on the same page where this team is concerned.

The Talent....

QB.

We need one. Up until this season we had Schaub and I have never seen anything that would indicate that he wasn't exactly what our HC wanted. Gary went and got him, Gary placed a lot of faith in him, and Gary stuck with him too long and then tried to bring him back. We have a pair of fairly ordinary backups who have flashed at times but clearly aren't ready (or most likely capable) to be starters. That's what draft picks are for and we have a deep bunch of QB prospects to pick from. If we don't want a rookie QB and prefer to find a FA then we're going to be able to. Schaub is not coming back.

<....>

Sure we have holes. Everyone has holes. We have more on the D side than the O I think and we've got some talent that hasn't been put to good use. I think that the Texans have more talent than many teams that just hit 2-11 and fired their head coach and I think coaching candidates will understand that and realize that this team is ripe for a fairly quick turnaround. Maybe not as fast as McNair would like but we're hardly in the kind of condition that we were following Capers 2-14 campaign.I agree Herv. MSR. Some people are saying we have NO talent and we need a complete rebuild. We do have holes to fill. QB being the big one. The problem is we have lost the depth over the past few years. Each year we've lost a few NFL level players and replaced them with much, much less talented players. The Texans 2010, 11, 12 & 13 drafts were terribly weak. 2013 in particular was a train wreck. We need a good draft or 2 to get some depth back.

Add a good QB and this team improves greatly. Plug another hole or 2 and this team improves to potential playoff level 8+ wins. Dash in better coaching and a little luck and you have a good chance at rebounding. It's not like the Colts, Titans and Jags are great teams. This division is weak.

thunderkyss
12-09-2013, 05:00 PM
He's young, he's a Bro...

Say no more.

Dex?

Double Barrel
12-09-2013, 05:10 PM
Sorry DB, but I just don't agree that this is pressure for a new coach. If a coach doesn't have the confidence that he can get this team into playoff "contention" then please don't hire them. McNair didn't say "I expect this team to get to the playoffs next season."


This team is experiencing an on-going 11 game losing streak.

Do you honestly think it was only coaching???

Are you prepared that it might actually be a talent problem, as well?

If your expectation is to be a "playoff contention" next season, then prepared to be disappointed, as well. I'm not saying that it cannot happen, but just be real about it. No matter who they have at QB, it will be a challenge. We are not getting a HoF caliber QB to just step in and play. It will either be a rookie, Keenum, or a retread like Cutler.

McNair's very specific words were that "this is not a long-term rebuilding process." That statement, along with mentioning "playoff contention next year" in the same breath is easily to understand he wants a HC that can come in here and win immediately. McNair believes this team is just a few holes shy of contending. I think it is more than that when they don't even have a starting caliber QB on the roster, much less a solid secondary, right o-line, LBs beyond an injured Cushing, etc.

I could happen (playoffs), but it could just as easily be a 6-10 season in 2014, as well.

I'm pragmatic, not idealistic, so you can save your koolaide for other fans. I will not be disappointed in 2014 regardless of what happens simply because I do not set myself up for it (like I did this year).

I don't remember a lot of the detail of mid-season firing press conferences, do you? McNair was being repeatedly asked why now.

I'm not a big fan of mid-season firings. I understand why McNair felt he had to do it...I guess...but not a fan of two firings: right after a playoff season or firing during a season.

What was the final straw to make him make the decision to make a change:

"I think the last straw was losing. We've got a lot better talent than Jacksonville and to have them beat us twice, that's to their credit. They played harder. They played smarter. That's not acceptable to us, to have some team beat us on that basis. If they're better than we are, if they have better ability than we do, then fine. We expect to go out and play hard and play smart and we didn't play smart."

McNair could have just answered that he's tired of losing. Taking a shot at the talent of another team just seems goofy when his team is losing 11 in a row (and counting).

The Jaguars, for all the alleged lack of talent, has double the wins of the Texans. He's like DJ Swearinger of owners out there, talking trash from the bottom of the league's basement. (sarcasm on that one, btw)

utahmark
12-09-2013, 05:51 PM
This team is experiencing an on-going 11 game losing streak.

Do you honestly think it was only coaching???

Are you prepared that it might actually be a talent problem, as well?

If your expectation is to be a "playoff contention" next season, then prepared to be disappointed, as well. I'm not saying that it cannot happen, but just be real about it. No matter who they have at QB, it will be a challenge. We are not getting a HoF caliber QB to just step in and play. It will either be a rookie, Keenum, or a retread like Cutler.

McNair's very specific words were that "this is not a long-term rebuilding process." That statement, along with mentioning "playoff contention next year" in the same breath is easily to understand he wants a HC that can come in here and win immediately. McNair believes this team is just a few holes shy of contending. I think it is more than that when they don't even have a starting caliber QB on the roster, much less a solid secondary, right o-line, LBs beyond an injured Cushing, etc.

I could happen (playoffs), but it could just as easily be a 6-10 season in 2014, as well.

I'm pragmatic, not idealistic, so you can save your koolaide for other fans. I will not be disappointed in 2014 regardless of what happens simply because I do not set myself up for it (like I did this year).



I'm not a big fan of mid-season firings. I understand why McNair felt he had to do it...I guess...but not a fan of two firings: right after a playoff season or firing during a season.



McNair could have just answered that he's tired of losing. Taking a shot at the talent of another team just seems goofy when his team is losing 11 in a row (and counting).

The Jaguars, for all the alleged lack of talent, has double the wins of the Texans. He's like DJ Swearinger of owners out there, talking trash from the bottom of the league's basement. (sarcasm on that one, btw)

Only 3 times have we not been in the game at the end. I think 8 times we lost by 7 points or less. That is something that can be fixed by coaching next year, at least I hope.

Blake
12-09-2013, 06:10 PM
With only knowing what I know as a fan, you could be looking at the 3rd head coach in Texans franchise history.

Shaw meets all the stipulations of McNair.

He has head coaching experience: Stanford HC since Jan 2011.
NFL experience: Multiple position coach.
Success: 2012 Fiesta Bowl (Loss), 2013 Rose Bowl (Won), 2014 Rose Bowl (Unknwon)

He has it all.

SchaubApologist
12-09-2013, 06:32 PM
McNair is setting himself up for another round of the Emperor's new clothing. Everyone telling him what he wants to hear (yeah we can win with Carr).

McNair should shut his trap about what he wants and let his GM pick the next coach or find a stronger GM. If the "football people" determine that we should rebuild, we should rebuild. If the "football people" determine that we need to tweak and reload, we should tweak and reload. This mandate from an owner who has proven he doesn't know what he is doing on football related matters is growing kinda old to this old dog of a fan.

haha, preach on!!!

on the contrary, I agree with bob that this job is not a "complete rebuild". If we draft our franchise qb 1.1 (bridgewater), get a very good RT at 2.1, and then find a few starters the rest of the draft... I think in the weak AFC South we can compete as early as next season. clearly, the texans need to cut the kubiak pet projects (schaub, daniels, foster) and free up cap space for 2015. obviously i am assuming that we hire a good HC, and shaw is #1 on my list.

Vance87
12-09-2013, 06:34 PM
With only knowing what I know as a fan, you could be looking at the 3rd head coach in Texans franchise history.

Shaw meets all the stipulations of McNair.

He has head coaching experience: Stanford HC since Jan 2011.
NFL experience: Multiple position coach.
Success: 2012 Fiesta Bowl (Loss), 2013 Rose Bowl (Won), 2014 Rose Bowl (Unknwon)

He has it all.

But will he want to, that's the question.

Number19
12-09-2013, 06:42 PM
... I just hope he has the ability to innovate/adjust..."The future of offensive football doesn’t have to be no-huddle, and it doesn’t have to be breakneck...(against Army) Stanford, ran everything. Such as:

• A pro style shotgun, with one back, one tight end and three wideouts.

• A pro style I, with two backs, two wideouts and a tight end.

• An empty-backfield shotgun, with four wides and a tight end.

• A pistol (the shorter version of the shotgun) with sidecar backs on either side of quarterback Kevin Hogan and three wides.

• A pistol, with one back, two wides, and a tight end and slot tight end next to each other.

• A heavy formation, with three tight ends and two backs.

• The Weird Wildcat (my words, not Shaw’s): a back taking the snap, three tight ends, and a guard, 316-pound Joshua Garnett, as another (slot) tight end to demolish anything in his path.

• A classic old-time power I, with three backs and two tight ends. (Get the point? David Shaw loves the tight end.)

• And something I don’t know what to call: Before the snap, the tackle, tight end and slot tight end shifted to the right (sort of what Chip Kelly did at Washington in Week 1) to create a huge gap outside the guard.

“I’m going to quote my old boss, Jon Gruden,’’ Shaw said...“He would say it every single day: ‘What you want to do on offense is present the illusion of sophistication but all in all remain very simple and basic.’ So very often we’ll throw a whole bunch of different stuff at them, but we’re going to run a basic day-one installation play. Something we’ve run thousands of times. Something very, very simple. But for the defense, it looks very complicated. So we want to present these illusions, then run a regular play that we just want to execute right.’’..."

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/09/17/stanford-cardinal-peter-king/

bhsman
12-09-2013, 07:04 PM
Interesting article found here (http://www.ruleoftree.com/2013/12/5/5176410/stanfords-road-red-zone-woes), which talks about Stanford's red-zone woes when on the road. Initial conclusion: Shaw's system makes Hogan look a lot better than he is. That's not to discredit the system, only that people should come down from their praise of Hogan, and instead think about what Shaw could do with a better passing QB like Bridgewater or (if we went the Clowney/later round QB route) Mettenberger.

Rey
12-09-2013, 07:10 PM
I think the problem with this team was absolutely coaching.

That said, im worried about mcnair picking the next guy. Im worried that I dint know who is actually in charge of football stuff.

You cant have accountability if the responsibilities are murky. I don't know for sure...maybe they have it all figured out.

Just seems like a strange dynamic.

The Pencil Neck
12-09-2013, 07:15 PM
I think the problem with this team was absolutely coaching.

That said, im worried about mcnair picking the next guy. Im worried that I dint know who is actually in charge of football stuff.

You cant have accountability if the responsibilities are murky. I don't know for sure...maybe they have it all figured out.

Just seems like a strange dynamic.

I don't mind a team whose operations are a black box to me... as long as they've all got it figured out and working smoothly back behind the curtain. It's sounding like they're not going to be doing things now like they were doing things a week or two ago.

But I agree with you. I've said it before... I'm worried about McNair and Smith picking the right guy for this job. If they do it, then I'm going to count that as just getting lucky.

Playoffs
12-09-2013, 07:16 PM
...Im worried that I dint know who is actually in charge of football stuff.

You cant have accountability if the responsibilities are murky. I don't know for sure...maybe they have it all figured out.

Just seems like a strange dynamic.I think this was determined to be the problem and decisions were made to rectify it. Will see how Rick does.

bhsman
12-09-2013, 07:17 PM
I don't mind a team whose operations are a black box to me... as long as they've all got it figured out and working smoothly back behind the curtain. It's sounding like they're not going to be doing things now like they were doing things a week or two ago.

But I agree with you. I've said it before... I'm worried about McNair and Smith picking the right guy for this job. If they do it, then I'm going to count that as just getting lucky.

Much like Machiavelli taught about dealing with rebellious towns, you should act in a way as to leave them satisfied yet stupified? :kitten:

The Pencil Neck
12-09-2013, 07:27 PM
Much like Machiavelli taught about dealing with rebellious towns, you should act in a way as to leave them satisfied yet stupified? :kitten:

I was thinking more about the Art of War's section on spies and figuring out who your opponent's spies are so you can feed them a mix of truth and lies to confound them and put them into an unfavorable position.

But Machiavelli will do, too.

ObsiWan
12-09-2013, 07:36 PM
Only 3 times have we not been in the game at the end. I think 8 times we lost by 7 points or less. That is something that can be fixed by coaching next year, at least I hope.

I tend to agree. But I think Uncle Bob fired the wrong coach.
...or at least he shouldn't have stopped with Gary and Joe. We had the lead in many of those games; what happened to the defense.

I wanna see fresh thinking on both sides of the ball.

drs23
12-09-2013, 07:39 PM
Hate to be that guy, but Shaws resume isn't that impressive to me. 2 yrs calling plays and 1 as a head coach. That's it? What's the fascination? Did he inherit was Harbaugh left behind?

No you don't. You revel in it.

drs23
12-09-2013, 07:56 PM
This is his third year as the head coach though. 11-2, 12-2 and currently 11-2 right now. Also OC is listed on his resume from 07-10 so that looks like more than 2 years calling plays.

Thank you.

JB
12-09-2013, 07:59 PM
No you don't. You revel in it.

:handshake:

Exascor
12-09-2013, 08:02 PM
This team is experiencing an on-going 11 game losing streak.

Do you honestly think it was only coaching???

Are you prepared that it might actually be a talent problem, as well?

If your expectation is to be a "playoff contention" next season, then prepared to be disappointed, as well. I'm not saying that it cannot happen, but just be real about it. No matter who they have at QB, it will be a challenge. We are not getting a HoF caliber QB to just step in and play. It will either be a rookie, Keenum, or a retread like Cutler.

McNair's very specific words were that "this is not a long-term rebuilding process." That statement, along with mentioning "playoff contention next year" in the same breath is easily to understand he wants a HC that can come in here and win immediately. McNair believes this team is just a few holes shy of contending. I think it is more than that when they don't even have a starting caliber QB on the roster, much less a solid secondary, right o-line, LBs beyond an injured Cushing, etc.

I could happen (playoffs), but it could just as easily be a 6-10 season in 2014, as well.

I'm pragmatic, not idealistic, so you can save your koolaide for other fans. I will not be disappointed in 2014 regardless of what happens simply because I do not set myself up for it (like I did this year).
Not a koolaide drinker so I'll let others have it. hehe. Really though - I don't get too hyped or down. I try to look at things like this without emotion.

This 2013 Texans team has lost 8 games by 1 score or less. With nothing more than luck (no not Andrew) we could have 5-6 more wins and be in the playoff race right now. It's really not far fetched to think that doing nothing other than changing the coach OR the QB would have accomplished the same. This team was undisciplined (usually associated with coaching) and had the worst timed penalties I can ever remember seeing. The turnovers from the QB position aren't exactly unprecedented but there wasn't enough good plays from the QBs to balance them.

The 12-4 2012 Texans starters that are no longer on the roster:
Kevin Walter, Antoine Caldwell, Shaun Cody, Connor Barwin, Bradie James, Glover Quin & (if you want) James Casey. I'd argue that all positions have been replaced with at least equal talent except Quin. I sure don't think losing them had ANYTHING to do with the crash this season. We are losing 3 starters in 2014 to FA - Antonio Smith, Joe Mays & Wade Smith. I don't see anyone there that can't be replaced and there's a reasonable chance we could re-sign Antonio & Joe. Point is, the starters are there to be much better than 2 wins in 2014.

The talent issue is depth. We do lack depth. I've harped on that. Given the high draft picks, a good draft and some depth should be replaced. The rest depends on what starters are released and who is brought it in to fill the roster.

We need a QB and a coach. We whiff on either and it'll suck next year. We hit on both and the rest of the talent will normally improve automagically.

As for my expectations for 2014...I have none at this point. How can you? WAY too many things to come before we'll get a feel for what could happen. Coaches, systems, draft, FA, who is released, who stays... I will say that the 2014 schedule isn't exactly a murder's row. AFC North & NFC East + 2 last place AFC teams. The AFC South is weak - even the Colts. Not too many teams will have an easier shot to get back to a winning season.

TexanBacker93
12-09-2013, 08:03 PM
I agree Kubiak needed to go, I have been saying wanting that for 3 years. That doesn't excuse the fact that Smith did in fact throw the coaching staff under the bus. You may think it's immaterial but I assure it hasn't gone unnoticed in the coaching community. It will be a factor with those coaches with high aspirations. In the back of any new perspective coach's mind, they will be thinking, anything that I do that this buffoon doesn't agree with or doesn't like he will be on the phone to Peter King and/or NFL Network trashing me and my coaches.

I've never seen or heard a word from Rick Smith that indicates that he threw the coaching staff under the bus. Did he sit with McNair to announce Kubiak's firing? Yeah. I think if given the option of being fired with the coach or keeping your job all of us would keep the job. The writing was on the wall. He didn't put it there.

The only thing that will keep a prospective coach from coming here is if the $$ doesn't meet their requirements. Of the teams with possible openings no team has as much talent. I know sentiment is out there that we have little talent, but back to back division titles says we have some.

The Pencil Neck
12-09-2013, 08:06 PM
I've never seen or heard a word from Rick Smith that indicates that he threw the coaching staff under the bus.

Someone leaked that the FO was pissed off at the coaches because they felt the coaches weren't using the players correctly and not platooning guys they way they should have. There were some other rumors about dissension between the coaches and the FO.

Now.

Whether the "FO" was Smith or whether the "FO" was McNair could be debated, I think.

JB
12-09-2013, 08:07 PM
We need a QB and a coach. We whiff on either and it'll suck next year.

Amen!

drs23
12-09-2013, 08:08 PM
http://www.footballphds.com/2013/12/07/congratulations-stanfords-david-shaw-will-be-the-houston-texans-next-coach/

I like the way he thinks!

I love the sound of that. Open arms here Coach Shaw. You will be appreciated and loved.

Just do it!

Rey
12-09-2013, 08:14 PM
Someone leaked that the FO was pissed off at the coaches because they felt the coaches weren't using the players correctly and not platooning guys they way they should have. There were some other rumors about dissension between the coaches and the FO.

Now.

Whether the "FO" was Smith or whether the "FO" was McNair could be debated, I think.

Also heard thst the FO felt the coaches had too much say in the draft process.

And a rumor ive heard is that smith would want to cut a player or make a move and kubiak would nix it.

So to me sounds two fold - gm wanted more control and felt the actual coaching was lacking.

texanhead08
12-09-2013, 10:55 PM
Also heard thst the FO felt the coaches had too much say in the draft process.

And a rumor ive heard is that smith would want to cut a player or make a move and kubiak would nix it.

So to me sounds two fold - gm wanted more control and felt the actual coaching was lacking.


That sounds like Rick Smith spinning **** to save his job.

Texecutioner
12-09-2013, 11:21 PM
The consensus around the NFL is that Kubiak's failure to coach up the talent, not the Texans' current level of talent, is why this team is the dumpster fire that it is. Talent evaluation is to the credit of the GM. Rick Smith gets credit for that. If anyone threw Kubiak under the bus, it was his own players. I'd never seen a more non-disciplined team in my life than what we witnessed on Thursday Night. The whole country was watching that debacle. That, more than anything else, ended Kubiak's season early.

This will be his first Kubiak-free draft. Let's see how he does.

Well, I'd say Kubiak can be credited as far as the talent on this roster just as much as Smith can. It's been widely know that Kubiak plays a major role in the draft process and to some degree I think he possibly played a stronger role then Smith. I'm not sure about that, but they've all said that it's more of a group effort between him and Smith and even Mcnair to some degree.

Texecutioner
12-09-2013, 11:23 PM
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/IDontOftenDexmanC.jpg

Look, Rick Smith isn't going anywhere anytime soon and you can approach this incontrovertible fact in one of two ways. You can ***** and moan about him deserving to be run out of town or you can hope that the man is a better GM without Gary Kubiak in the building than he was with Gary Kubiak in the building. The Texans did that whole Coach-GM hiring thing backwards and it put Smith in a position where he was required to be Gary Kubiak's yes man. At the same time he was often praised for finding talent right off the street when we had guys go down. there is some evidence that the man can do the job.

What do you want to do? I'm hoping he's going to be better going forward.

Tried to rep this, but could not. Hilarious.

DocBar
12-10-2013, 12:21 AM
This is not about Kubiak. As of Friday Kubiak is no longer a Houston Texan. A month ago Ian Rapoport reported this on the air and in print:

The interesting part of Rapoport's report is that he said the Texans' front office is "a bit frustrated" with Kubiak and the rest of his coaching staff.

The frustration stems from coaches having too much draft input and keeping stars on the field too long. Rapoport elaborated on the last point, saying that the front office believes the lack of a defensive-line rotation leads to wearing down late in games."

Simple Question: How do you convince a new perspective Head Coach that this is not going to happen to him and his coaching staff?
So Smith is accountable for how players are used?

BTW, I bet a prospective head coach would say whatever he needed to to get the job. He could turn SchYateNum" to a thousand Pro Bowls and Super Bowls.

i bet there hasn't been a coach hired in the last 40 years that said he couldn't coach one or more high profile positions to goodness if not not greatness. Hell, half of TT could call a better game than Kubiak or Phillips. That's proven by the very high numbers of posts calling plays on either side of the ball. It happens a lot.

infantrycak
12-10-2013, 12:52 AM
Hell, half of TT could call a better game than Kubiak or Phillips. That's proven by the very high numbers of posts calling plays on either side of the ball. It happens a lot.

Maybe half of TT thinks they can call a better game. It hasn't been proven by a single post prior to a play actually happening.

Saying they are going to run on 3rd and 9 60 times in a row doesn't mean you actually called the play when it finally happens. It just means you were persistent.

Dishman
12-10-2013, 07:00 AM
Saying they are going to run on 3rd and 9 60 times in a row doesn't mean you actually called the play when it finally happens. It just means you were persistent.

That's right, Kubiak was one persistent (stubborn) head coach.

Playoffs
12-10-2013, 01:25 PM
LZ on Shaw...

Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
I don't believe he's an option. Has no interest in leaving Stanford at this time.

Double Barrel
12-10-2013, 01:46 PM
This 2013 Texans team has lost 8 games by 1 score or less.

This is such a smoke screen statistic.

Do you know what it means? Absolutely nothing. It is merely a way to put sprinkles on a turd.

All that matters right now is this team is the worst in Texans history, even over the garbage 2005 team that was less talented. That team never lost 11 in a row (and counting).

Acting like close games equates to anything tangible is exactly what Belichick was referring to with his "stats are for losers, the final score is for winners" quote.

Margin of losing is nothing to bank on and provides me with zero comfort for this craptastic season.

As for my expectations for 2014...I have none at this point. How can you?

Did you not read a word I wrote? :um:

I do not have any expectations for 2014. That was my point that I will not be disappointed next year, simply because I do not expect a winning season, much less playoff contention, from a team with unknowns at head coach and QB.

infantrycak
12-10-2013, 01:59 PM
This is such a smoke screen statistic.

Do you know what it means? Absolutely nothing. It is merely a way to put sprinkles on a turd.

All that matters right now is this team is the worst in Texans history, even over the garbage 2005 team that was less talented. That team never lost 11 in a row (and counting).

Acting like close games equates to anything tangible is exactly what Belichick was referring to with his "stats are for losers, the final score is for winners" quote.

Margin of losing is nothing to bank on and provides me with zero comfort for this craptastic season.

Wow, totally disagree. I consider 11 in a row much less meaningful. I see nothing better about flipping the Titans win with the 1st Jags game. OTOH lots of times when you look at the clubs with big turnarounds in record you find teams who were in games but lost turning them to in games and win. It seems common sense. It is harder to make up a 20 ppg point differential than it is a 3 ppg one. Of course it should not be banked on.

DocBar
12-10-2013, 02:16 PM
Wow, totally disagree. I consider 11 in a row much less meaningful. I see nothing better about flipping the Titans win with the 1st Jags game. OTOH lots of times when you look at the clubs with big turnarounds in record you find teams who were in games but lost turning them to in games and win. It seems common sense. It is harder to make up a 20 ppg point differential than it is a 3 ppg one. Of course it should not be banked on.And the Texans were 5-0 in games decided by 1 score last season. It comes around and goes around.

Exascor
12-10-2013, 02:25 PM
This is such a smoke screen statistic.

Do you know what it means? Absolutely nothing. It is merely a way to put sprinkles on a turd.

All that matters right now is this team is the worst in Texans history, even over the garbage 2005 team that was less talented. That team never lost 11 in a row (and counting).

Acting like close games equates to anything tangible is exactly what Belichick was referring to with his "stats are for losers, the final score is for winners" quote.

Margin of losing is nothing to bank on and provides me with zero comfort for this craptastic season.You completely ignored the point DB. Nobody is saying that this team is anything but a 2 win team. It sucks. I sure couldn't care less that the Texans "barely" lost games. The point is that even with all the crap that has happened to the Texans this season, you replace Schaub/Keenum with a top 5-10 QB or Kubiak with a really good HC and there's no way this team isn't in the playoff picture still.

I just think that McNair's presser is being over analyzed. He just fired a friend of 8 years. He believes in his team. I don't think an coaching candidate will be intimidated by anything he's said so far.

Did you not read a word I wrote? :um:

I do not have any expectations for 2014. That was my point that I will not be disappointed next year, simply because I do not expect a winning season, much less playoff contention, from a team with unknowns at head coach and QB.You = the generic you. Not DB. I'm not an eloquent writer but I read just fine thanks. =P

The Pencil Neck
12-10-2013, 02:52 PM
You completely ignored the point DB. Nobody is saying that this team is anything but a 2 win team. It sucks. I sure couldn't care less that the Texans "barely" lost games. The point is that even with all the crap that has happened to the Texans this season, you replace Schaub/Keenum with a top 5-10 QB or Kubiak with a really good HC and there's no way this team isn't in the playoff picture still.

I just think that McNair's presser is being over analyzed. He just fired a friend of 8 years. He believes in his team. I don't think an coaching candidate will be intimidated by anything he's said so far.

That's all well and good but I think it ignores the way a team's players are frequently picked with a certain coach's paradigm in mind.

If a good coach can come in and implement a system that largely uses the players that we have while also tweaking the things that need to be tweaked to get them back up to a playoff level, then yes. Wade came in and took a crappy defense, made a couple of tweaks, added a couple of players, and turned the whole thing around even without massively shaking up the roster. Andy Reid came in and with the addition of a veteran QB, turned that Chiefs team around (although it remains to be seen if this turn-around is sustainable.)

But lots of times, the coach+coordinators don't have the players they want to do the things they do and they can't make effective use of them. In that case, they have to tear things down before they build them back up.

If we go with a rookie QB, there's an even greater chance that we're going to take time to build things back up.

So it all comes down to the coach+coordinators chosen and how they're able to make use of what's available. We could be back in the playoffs next season, or we could be drafting in the top 5 again.

Double Barrel
12-10-2013, 02:54 PM
Wow, totally disagree. I consider 11 in a row much less meaningful. I see nothing better about flipping the Titans win with the 1st Jags game. OTOH lots of times when you look at the clubs with big turnarounds in record you find teams who were in games but lost turning them to in games and win. It seems common sense. It is harder to make up a 20 ppg point differential than it is a 3 ppg one. Of course it should not be banked on.

That's fine to disagree, but history will record the 11 losses, not how close they lost those games.

My point is that expecting this team to become a playoff contender in one season is hopeful optimism, but not necessarily based on being pragmatic with a new head coach, new OC, new QB, and who knows what other new positions and coaches.

The Andy Reid situation is an exception to the normal rule of seasonal turnaround. I think a lot of fans are setting themselves up for disappointment in 2014.

That's fine that y'all want to believe. I have no problem with how others perceive it. I'm just not going to jump in that bathtub full of koolaide right now. This team has some major issues, and that's not even arguable.

If it happens, I'll be waving my pom-poms with the rest of you. And I have no problem in admitting that I'm cynical and was not optimistic at this point in 2013.

You completely ignored the point DB. Nobody is saying that this team is anything but a 2 win team. It sucks. I sure couldn't care less that the Texans "barely" lost games. The point is that even with all the crap that has happened to the Texans this season, you replace Schaub/Keenum with a top 5-10 QB or Kubiak with a really good HC and there's no way this team isn't in the playoff picture still.

I did not miss the point. You just used an "if" in your argument.

Well, IF we had Tom Brady...IF we had Bill Belichick...do you get my point about arguing "if"??

The point is that we did NOT have a top 5-10 QB or a really good HC in place of Kubiak.

And there is absolutely no guarantee that 2014 will definitely have a top 5-10 QB or a really good HC. That's my entire point. Nothing more, nothing less.

This will be a different team next year. You simply cannot act like the 2014 Texans will be exactly the same 2013 players except for "top 5-10 QB or a really good HC". There's going to be cuts, turnover, and some players just get old and lose skills.

I just think that McNair's presser is being over analyzed. He just fired a friend of 8 years. He believes in his team. I don't think an coaching candidate will be intimidated by anything he's said so far.


He's the owner. He's the big boss that makes the decisions. His words are all we have to analyze with regards to anyone on the Texans with any decision making power.

It's not like we are analyzing John McClain, sports talk, Texans Talk, or some random blog.

We are talking about the owner's own words. What else do you prioritize over him?

You = the generic you. Not DB. I'm not an eloquent writer but I read just fine thanks. =P

I did not mean to sound harsh. I like your posts and my reply was stronger than intended. Main point is why ask about my expectations when I specifically said I have none. But that was the me DB, not the generic one.

Exascor
12-10-2013, 03:08 PM
I did not mean to sound harsh. I like your posts and my reply was stronger than intended. Main point is why ask about my expectations when I specifically said I have none. But that was the me DB, not the generic one.Meh-I just can't wait until this season is over and we start seeing what the future may hold. I want to see improvement of the sacred 2 (HC/QB) so there's some shred of hope of not going through another 3-4 years of crap or mediocrity. Peace!

infantrycak
12-10-2013, 04:11 PM
That's fine to disagree, but history will record the 11 losses, not how close they lost those games.

My point is that expecting this team to become a playoff contender in one season is hopeful optimism, but not necessarily based on being pragmatic with a new head coach, new OC, new QB, and who knows what other new positions and coaches.

I am not expecting anything, just noting a belief the situation could call for even less optimism if they were getting blown out every game. I guess it depends on what is meant by playoff contender. This season should show that phrase is almost meaningless. Some folks are pumping Rex Ryan if he gets fired because his team is still in "playoff contention" at 6-7. The NFC East may have a 9-7 division winner this season. Pretty much until you have an 8th loss you could be argued to be in playoff contention. I don't think that kind of turnaround would be shocking. If McNair or anyone means KC turnaround to go back to 12-4, yeah that is koolaid.

Ktexan68
12-11-2013, 09:11 AM
Doesn't sound good for Shaw:

Tania Ganguli @taniaganguli
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Texans candidate watch: David Shaw: Anyone who follows college football has heard that "I'm not leavin... http://es.pn/JeggJY #Texans
8:00 AM - 11 Dec 2013

Texian
12-11-2013, 09:38 AM
Also heard thst the FO felt the coaches had too much say in the draft process.

And a rumor ive heard is that smith would want to cut a player or make a move and kubiak would nix it.

So to me sounds two fold - gm wanted more control and felt the actual coaching was lacking.

The draft process is a system that was set up and agreed to 8 years ago by McNair and Kubiak. Only now it has become a problem? A problem that needed to be discussed in the National Media? This very much sounds like a CYA on drafting Sam Montgomery and why most every NFL team had Sam off their draft board and the Texans didn't. That's the BIG FUBAR here.

Smith would be responsible for knowing any off field problems with Montgomery. Did Smith sound the alarm on Sam and was overridden or is Smith doing the CYA because he didn't know?

Smith when hired was the least knowledgeable most inexperienced GM in the NFL. Smith's training and education in player personnel was pretty much limited to Mike Shanahan. Smith was part of the good old boy network. The "Not What You Know but Who You Know", business plan.

Playoffs
12-11-2013, 12:17 PM
DAVID SHAW (http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/potential-texans-head-coaching-list)David Shaw will continue to be one of the hot names in the world of coaching and Bob McNair and the Houston Texans would be fools not to look into Shaw. The problem for Houston is that league sources have told me that Shaw shut down any and all advances last offseason and doesn't have any interest in going to the NFL just yet.

If the Texans were able to get Shaw to consider an NFL job, he would bring his style of football which is very NFL-centric in that he preaches tackling and power running. Shaw has coached under Jon Gruden in Oakland, Brian Billick in Baltimore and Jim Harbaugh at Stanford. Shaw is 41 years old and definitely has a "head coaching presence" to his demeanor. It would be interesting to see if Shaw would consider the Texas job or Texans job to be the better position if he were to consider leaving Stanford.

Playoffs
12-11-2013, 12:24 PM
LZ on Shaw...

I don't believe he's an option. Has no interest in leaving Stanford at this time.
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
Doesn't sound good for Shaw:

Texans candidate watch: David Shaw: Anyone who follows college football has heard that "I'm not leavin... http://es.pn/JeggJY #Texans


When John McClain of the Houston Chronicle wrote that Stanford coach David Shaw would be a candidate for the Texans, Jon Wilner, who covers Stanford for the San Jose Mercury News, tweeted: "Saw news reports that Stanford HC David Shaw is on Texans' short list: No chance. 1 minute spent on Shaw is 1 minute wasted."

Shaw might leave Stanford one day, but those who cover him don't see that happening now.

Here's why: Unlike his predecessor, Jim Harbaugh, Shaw went to Stanford and wants to win a national title there. Given the teams he's fielded, it's not unreasonable to think he could do it, especially with a four-team playoff. He wants to raise his kids in Palo Alto. And the total power he has at Stanford is something he absolutely would not get in the NFL, which he rebuffed last year.
Ask the Majic 8 Ball ! http://www.scc.losrios.edu/Images/Matric/Animated%20Gifs/Downarrow.gif
http://magic8ballonline.com/8ball/8Ball.jpg (http://hope.gr/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/dontcountonit.png)

Number19
12-11-2013, 06:16 PM
This is what I've been reading for a week now. But who knows; we'll likely hear something definite by Jan 10; possibly as early as Jan 3.

houstonhurricane
12-11-2013, 09:56 PM
That stinks - really high on Shaw.

ThaShark316
12-11-2013, 10:06 PM
Damn.

Texian
12-11-2013, 10:11 PM
This is what I've been reading for a week now. But who knows; we'll likely hear something definite by Jan 10; possibly as early as Jan 3.

That stinks - really high on Shaw.

To early to fret, it sounds like it could be wishful thinking and hoping from this local beat writer. Two things, the money will be substantially more, these guys egos usually aspire to the highest calling and that is the NFL. I think an NFL team offering Shaw full control of the roster could be a bigger problem for the Texans. And if he stays at Stanford that could also mean that he didn't get the offer he wanted besides just wanting to stay at Stanford.

steelbtexan
12-11-2013, 10:48 PM
I agree Herv. MSR. Some people are saying we have NO talent and we need a complete rebuild. We do have holes to fill. QB being the big one. The problem is we have lost the depth over the past few years. Each year we've lost a few NFL level players and replaced them with much, much less talented players. The Texans 2010, 11, 12 & 13 drafts were terribly weak. 2013 in particular was a train wreck. We need a good draft or 2 to get some depth back.

Add a good QB and this team improves greatly. Plug another hole or 2 and this team improves to potential playoff level 8+ wins. Dash in better coaching and a little luck and you have a good chance at rebounding. It's not like the Colts, Titans and Jags are great teams. This division is weak.

The Texans are the best 2-11 team in the league. Yipeee!!!!!

The hole they have from players moving on weren't replaced. How do you replace those players? By doing the hard work, studying film and finding under the radar in the draft Juluis Thomas/Chris Jones/Sam Shields etc.... You cant lose 3-4 players every yr and your best draft pick be Mercilus.

For instance Hopkins was a good draft pick. But would you rather have Kiko Alonso in the 1st and Kenny stills in the 5th? The Texans need to figure this out this yr.

That's why since there's no Luck/RG3 in this yrs draft, they need to draft Clowney/Barr etc... and get a QB in the 2-3rd rd if you have to take one in this yrs draft. Personally I would load up on picks and trade up for Winston/Petty in 2015. After I used the 2014 draft to fill all of the holes that currently exist.

This draft is 4 rds deep and very talented. If at all possible this is the draft to trade down and load up on 2014/2015 1st is a must in any trade so they can get the QB in the better QB class. The worst thing Rick can do is reach for a QB at 1-1.

Do I have any faith in Rick Smith being able to accomplish any of this? NO, there's no chance Shaw would come to the Texans to work under Rick Smith. (That's laughable)

Which is why the Texans will continue to be all flash and no substance. But atleast BoB will still get his $$$$$.

TheMatrix31
12-11-2013, 11:13 PM
Anyone who wants to raise his kids in the ****hole that is California is nobody I trust to be coach of the Houston Texans.

TexanSam
12-11-2013, 11:16 PM
Anyone who wants to raise his kids in the ****hole that is California is nobody I trust to be coach of the Houston Texans.

Angry much?

TheMatrix31
12-12-2013, 02:12 AM
Angry much?


Very much so, actually. Kinda sucks when the place you've lived in all your life has been systematically destroyed.

badboy
12-12-2013, 11:00 PM
Very much so, actually. Kinda sucks when the place you've lived in all your life has been systematically destroyed.Would 3-4 million a year fix it for you?

TheMatrix31
12-13-2013, 02:47 AM
Would 3-4 million a year fix it for you?

Nah. Unfortunately, my sentiments would stay the same.

nero THE zero
12-13-2013, 09:39 AM
Anyone who wants to raise his kids in the ****hole that is California is nobody I trust to be coach of the Houston Texans.

Palo Alto is absolutely stunning.

Anyone who wouldn't want to raise their kids there should have their sanity questioned.

GuerillaBlack
12-13-2013, 11:05 AM
California is such a ****hole that they have a surplus now that the republicans that were obstructing were voted out.

mussop
12-13-2013, 11:11 AM
California is such a ****hole that they have a surplus now that the republicans that were obstructing were voted out.

Huh?:mcnugget:

infantrycak
12-13-2013, 11:28 AM
Huh?:mcnugget:

The new budget they passed out there is supposed to eliminate deficits and create a surplus to start paying off the debt within the next 6 (iirc) years. I think that is what he is referring to.

GuerillaBlack
12-13-2013, 11:29 AM
Huh?:mcnugget:

http://m.sfgate.com/politics/article/Good-news-California-Surplus-is-2-4-billion-4997158.php

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78282860/

bhsman
12-13-2013, 12:30 PM
California is such a ****hole that they have a surplus now that the republicans that were obstructing were voted out.

http://m.sfgate.com/politics/article/Good-news-California-Surplus-is-2-4-billion-4997158.php

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78282860/

Nice. Good for Jerry Brown, I guess.

Honoring Earl 34
12-13-2013, 12:32 PM
Angry much?

There's a guy who needs to move to South Carolina .

amazing80
12-13-2013, 04:35 PM
way to derail a thread with mindless chatter about politics :vincepalm:

infantrycak
12-13-2013, 04:38 PM
way to derail a thread with mindless chatter about politics :vincepalm:

Well the budget specifics don't matter, but politics could play a big factor in whether Shaw would consider the Texans.

Number19
12-13-2013, 06:16 PM
To early to fret, it sounds like it could be wishful thinking and hoping from this local beat writer. Two things, the money will be substantially more, these guys egos usually aspire to the highest calling and that is the NFL. I think an NFL team offering Shaw full control of the roster could be a bigger problem for the Texans. And if he stays at Stanford that could also mean that he didn't get the offer he wanted besides just wanting to stay at Stanford.It's not just Shaw, but his wife, also. It's said she really likes Palo Alto and wants to stay.

Texian
12-13-2013, 06:32 PM
It's not just Shaw, but his wife, also. It's said she really likes Palo Alto and wants to stay.

So says David and an easy way to deflect constant questions about his future.

drs23
12-13-2013, 08:11 PM
It's not just Shaw, but his wife, also. It's said she really likes Palo Alto and wants to stay.

I really like the sound of Shaw as the Texans HC but if he's that PWipped I must reconsider.

infantrycak
12-13-2013, 09:53 PM
I really like the sound of Shaw as the Texans HC but if he's that PWipped I must reconsider.

It isn't just the wife. All of the Shaws (mom, dad, 2 siblings and their kids) are from California. Don't know if Shaw's wife is from CA but she went to Cal for her masters. They all live close to each other. Shaw's dad is an unofficial member of the Stanford coaching staff and regularly attends coaches' meetings and practices. Doesn't mean it can't happen but tougher sale than normal.

Honoring Earl 34
12-13-2013, 10:13 PM
It isn't just the wife. All of the Shaws (mom, dad, 2 siblings and their kids) are from California. Don't know if Shaw's wife is from CA but she went to Cal for her masters. They all live close to each other. Shaw's dad is an unofficial member of the Stanford coaching staff and regularly attends coaches' meetings and practices. Doesn't mean it can't happen but tougher sale than normal.

I think for quality of life , a big time college coach is the ticket . The NFL grind is a hard life .

texanhead08
12-13-2013, 10:34 PM
I like Shaw the most out of all the potential college coaches, but its going to be a hard sell to pry a guy away from his alma matter coming off of 3 straight BCS bowls.

Texian
12-16-2013, 08:02 PM
RT @agonzalezap: David Shaw says being mentioned for NFL jobs is "very flattering" but he's happy at Stanford and has no plans to leave.

Shaw was bothered by rumors he'd leave last yr. now "it's just a testament to being a really good college football program"

Shaw did say that when he started coaching, he had his sights on being an NFL head coach

Shaw: "if I'm going to start doing something, I'm going to see if I can be as good as I can be and go as high as I can go."

Shaw now says he's happy at Stanford. "No matter what I say, the rumors aren't going to stop," he said.
Expand

https://twitter.com/agonzalezAP

Stanford Football ‏@StanfordFball 11m

#gostanford RT @agonzalezAP: @CoachDavidShaw being mentioned for NFL jobs is "very flattering" but he's happy at Stanford, no plans to leave

Texian
12-16-2013, 08:07 PM
A couple of weeks ago I would've been upset and depressed by the above news. I have since resigned myself to thinking that if Shaw does in fact take a NFL HC job it will not be with the Texans. It will be with a team where he will have final say on the 53 man roster. Why? Because he will be able to command it. I have also resigned myself to the thought that Lovie Smith will be the next Texan HC because Lovie has already demonstrated he doesn't have to have the final say on the 53 man roster.