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Uncle Rico
12-07-2013, 06:30 PM
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10088331/bill-barnwell-houston-texans

Or they could try to pick up the best of both worlds. With the first overall pick in a draft where there's a true franchise quarterback available, the Texans are sure to field juicy trade offers reminiscent of the haul that the Rams received from Washington in the Robert Griffin III deal. Maybe Houston trades the first pick to the Rams for their two first-round picks and ends up with Clowney and, say, local star Johnny Manziel. The point is that the Texans have options. Part of rebuilding quickly is getting a really high draft pick at exactly the right time. The Texans appear to have pulled that off.

This scenario is particularly intriguing to me. I still feel strongly that the team should take the best QB available, but if you are somehow able to nab two top level players in one deal you do it. This draft is freaking loaded, Rick Smith better not mess it up because it shouldnt be that hard to retool given the players that will be available during your selections. I dont agree with the Clowney part, but any variety of multiple top 15 picks would work wonders.

I would even get uber aggressive and trade back into the late 1st round and get yet another guy, using picks from next years draft.

kiwitexansfan
12-07-2013, 06:44 PM
Many would argue faulty logic on this piece because Bridgewater is a JAG.

If the league is convinced on Teddy though it has more merit, then again if Teddy is a franchise guy you take him and never look back.

Surreal McCoy
12-07-2013, 06:53 PM
Many would argue faulty logic on this piece because Bridgewater is a JAG.

If the league is convinced on Teddy though it has more merit, then again if Teddy is a franchise guy you take him and never look back.

You also have to find a team dumb enough to make that trade. RGIII/Herschel Walker type deals come along rarely...

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 06:54 PM
Man, it's gonna be fun watching Teddy every Sunday.

1.1 Bridgewater
2.1 Best RT avail
3.1 BPA
4.1 BPA
5.1 BPA
6.1 BPA
7.1 Kicker

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 06:55 PM
You also have to find a team dumb enough to make that trade. RGIII/Herschel Walker type deals come along rarely...

Great point.

It's not going to happen.

And, I'm ecstatic because Bridgewater is so freaking legit.

Linca
12-07-2013, 07:01 PM
Great point.

It's not going to happen.

And, I'm ecstatic because Bridgewater is so freaking legit.

What makes you think Bridgewater is the answer? He has not looked impressive in a lot of his starts including; UH, Memphis, Rutgers and Cincinnati. I don't get this Teddy fever. If you were to take any the other 1st or 2nd round quarterbacks and play those same teams it would be a total blow out.

He plays in the AAC, these are NOT GOOD DEFENSES IN COLLEGE. He has had one good victory over Florida but he has really regressed since then.

infantrycak
12-07-2013, 07:01 PM
You also have to find a team dumb enough to make that trade. RGIII/Herschel Walker type deals come along rarely...

Not sure why people keep saying this about the RGIII trade. The trade is not far off by the chart. Future picks are downgraded a round per year conventionally.

kiwitexansfan
12-07-2013, 07:02 PM
And, I'm ecstatic because Bridgewater is so freaking legit.

Is he? Someone is going to have to make that call in the FO.

If he is you draft him, if he is not you hope some team is convinced he is not.

That one decision will determine our next few years.

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 07:10 PM
What makes you think Bridgewater is the answer? He has not looked impressive in a lot of his starts including; UH, Memphis, Rutgers and Cincinnati. I don't get this Teddy fever. If you were to take any the other 1st or 2nd round quarterbacks and play those same teams it would be a total blow out.

He plays in the AAC, these are NOT GOOD DEFENSES IN COLLEGE. He has had one good victory over Florida but he has really regressed since then.

Did you see his game last thursday?

Teddy is absolutely a franchise QB:

1) The guy strives to be a "coach on the field"
2) There's not a bad hair on his head
3) He runs a pro style offense at lville
4) Capable of reading defenses and making adjustments at the LOS
5) Makes ALL the throws
6) Throws his WR's open
7) Natural leader
8) Uncanny pocket awareness
9) Keeps his eyes downfield while side stepping pass rush
10) Makes plays when the play called breaks down
11) Goes through progressions
12) 4.5-4.6 speed
13) Pocket passer first
14) Ice water in his veins
15) Football junkie
16) Film junkie
17) Understands football
18) Great dude, Great citizen, Face of Franchise type player

I have studied him extensively over the past 1.5 years. He's the real deal. I cannot wait to see #5 Teddy Bridgewater in a Texans uniform.

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 07:19 PM
Is he? Someone is going to have to make that call in the FO.

If he is you draft him, if he is not you hope some team is convinced he is not.

That one decision will determine our next few years.

Not having a franchise caliber QB has plagued our team for the last 12 years.

I'm willing to take a gamble. Although I do not see it as a gamble, but nothing is a "sure thing".

Playoffs
12-07-2013, 07:27 PM
Nice writeup by Barnwell, thanks for posting it.

WolverineFan
12-07-2013, 07:55 PM
He plays in the AAC, these are NOT GOOD DEFENSES IN COLLEGE. He has had one good victory over Florida but he has really regressed since then.

?

Since the Florida game....

268/382 (70.2%) for 3523 yards (9.2 y/a) with 28 TD's and 4 INT's.

You can not like him because he doesn't blowout UH. That's fine. But don't throw stuff like regression against the wall hoping it will stick. That is just simply inaccurate.

badboy
12-07-2013, 08:05 PM
Great point.

It's not going to happen.

And, I'm ecstatic because Bridgewater is so freaking legit.most were shocked when Washington gave three firsts and a second for RG3 but they did. Cleveland defense is getting good but still need a QB and they missed out on RG3 so a deal is not out of question.

Bulls on Parade
12-07-2013, 08:06 PM
Did you see his game last thursday?

Teddy is absolutely a franchise QB:
But then there is his mediocre performance against our own Houston Cougars about a month back and it makes you second guess yourself.

http://youtu.be/IQKN-F6fk6I

2:02 to 2:11 and 2:40 to 2:51 in particular. We already have Case Keenum who can do that with our current offensive line.

But anyways, watch the entire 7:38 video and I'm not convinced Teddy is a franchise QB. Yeah it's one game but that's against our hometown team. Eat 'Em Up Cougs!

aussie_texan
12-07-2013, 08:09 PM
most were shocked when Washington gave three firsts and a second for RG3 but they did. Cleveland defense is getting good but still need a QB and they missed out on RG3 so a deal is not out of question.

:evil:

Bulls on Parade
12-07-2013, 08:11 PM
Uncle Rico. I'll be upset if we don't draft Jadeveon Clowney number one overall. We need to add another beast up front to pair with J.J. Watt, especially if we move to a 4-3 defense depending on the new coaching staff.

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 08:33 PM
But then there is his mediocre performance against our own Houston Cougars about a month back and it makes you second guess yourself.

http://youtu.be/IQKN-F6fk6I

2:02 to 2:11 and 2:40 to 2:51 in particular. We already have Case Keenum who can do that with our current offensive line.

But anyways, watch the entire 7:38 video and I'm not convinced Teddy is a franchise QB. Yeah it's one game but that's against our hometown team. Eat 'Em Up Cougs!

haha, so 1 bad game does it for you?

you realize no one is perfect, right? andrew luck and peyton manning had bad games in college too.

kiwitexansfan
12-07-2013, 08:33 PM
Uncle Rico. I'll be upset if we don't draft Jadeveon Clowney number one overall. We need to add another beast up front to pair with J.J. Watt, especially if we move to a 4-3 defense depending on the new coaching staff.

Franchise QB trumps franchise DL right?

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 08:33 PM
Uncle Rico. I'll be upset if we don't draft Jadeveon Clowney number one overall. We need to add another beast up front to pair with J.J. Watt, especially if we move to a 4-3 defense depending on the new coaching staff.

be prepared to be upset.

no chance we take clowney because of his red flags.

smith is not about to go through sam montgomery again.

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 08:34 PM
Franchise QB trumps franchise DL right?

exactly!!!

another DL is straight up a luxury pick for a team without a franchise qb.

but, no worries, clowney has mad red flags.

SW H-TOWN
12-07-2013, 09:07 PM
Did you see his game last thursday?

Teddy is absolutely a franchise QB:

1) The guy strives to be a "coach on the field"
2) There's not a bad hair on his head
3) He runs a pro style offense at lville
4) Capable of reading defenses and making adjustments at the LOS
5) Makes ALL the throws
6) Throws his WR's open
7) Natural leader
8) Uncanny pocket awareness
9) Keeps his eyes downfield while side stepping pass rush
10) Makes plays when the play called breaks down
11) Goes through progressions
12) 4.5-4.6 speed
13) Pocket passer first
14) Ice water in his veins
15) Football junkie
16) Film junkie
17) Understands football
18) Great dude, Great citizen, Face of Franchise type player

I have studied him extensively over the past 1.5 years. He's the real deal. I cannot wait to see #5 Teddy Bridgewater in a Texans uniform.

I like Bridgewater too but man I wish Jameis Winston was a year older. I was comparing the two and that kid is unreal. No 19 year old should be that good. Bridgewater is a very good prospect but Winston is up there with Luck and Manning.

Surreal McCoy
12-07-2013, 09:12 PM
Not sure why people keep saying this about the RGIII trade. The trade is not far off by the chart. Future picks are downgraded a round per year conventionally.

Fair enough. If someone is willing to make that type trade then you bite their arm off. This team is well more than just a QB shy of being good.

Seegara
12-07-2013, 09:14 PM
What makes you think Bridgewater is the answer? He has not looked impressive in a lot of his starts including; UH, Memphis, Rutgers and Cincinnati. I don't get this Teddy fever. If you were to take any the other 1st or 2nd round quarterbacks and play those same teams it would be a total blow out.

He plays in the AAC, these are NOT GOOD DEFENSES IN COLLEGE. He has had one good victory over Florida but he has really regressed since then.
I sort of like Bridgewater, myself. But my daughter, who is not a member, wants me to post her opinion:

"Quarterback should be a high priority. But I have a couple of misgivings about Teddy.
1. Guys named Ted are so often unspeakably evil criminals.
2. Black quarterbacks in the NFL have usually been inconsistent."

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 09:19 PM
I sort of like Bridgewater, myself. But my daughter, who is not a member, wants me to post her opinion:

"Quarterback should be a high priority. But I have a couple of misgivings about Teddy.
1. Guys named Ted are so often unspeakably evil criminals.
2. Black quarterbacks in the NFL have usually been inconsistent."

hm, your daughter should probably keep that to herself.

JB
12-07-2013, 09:20 PM
I sort of like Bridgewater, myself. But my daughter, who is not a member, wants me to post her opinion:

"Quarterback should be a high priority. But I have a couple of misgivings about Teddy.
1. Guys named Ted are so often unspeakably evil criminals.
2. Black quarterbacks in the NFL have usually been inconsistent."

That's profiling

The Third Man
12-07-2013, 09:36 PM
I sort of like Bridgewater, myself. But my daughter, who is not a member, wants me to post her opinion:

"Quarterback should be a high priority. But I have a couple of misgivings about Teddy.
1. Guys named Ted are so often unspeakably evil criminals.
2. Black quarterbacks in the NFL have usually been inconsistent."

So, you're daughter is a racist...

bhsman
12-07-2013, 09:36 PM
Counterpoint:

1) Presidents named Teddy have been amazing 100% of the time, so we're good there :swatter:

2) You should show her clips of Warren Moon and Cunningham :P

steelbtexan
12-07-2013, 10:00 PM
Franchise QB trumps franchise DL right?

If Bridgewater was a franchise QB.

I dont believe he is. Manziel is better than Bridgewater. IMHO. I dont want the Texans to draft Manziel either. 1-1 makes me say pass on Bridgewater. Take Clowney at 1-1, and Mettenberger or Murray who have just as much talent as Bridgewater. They're just coming off injury.

Tell me arm strength wise, being able to read defenses, played against far better competition, what makes Bridgewater 2rds better than Bridgewater. I understand the need for a franchise QB, but no need to reach for one. Especially with guys like Clowney/Barr on the board.

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 10:03 PM
If Bridgewater was a franchise QB.

I dont believe he is. Manziel is better than Bridgewater. IMHO. I dont want the Texans to draft Manziel either. 1-1 makes me say pass on Bridgewater. Take Clowney at 1-1, and Mettenberger or Murray who have just as much talent as Bridgewater. They're just coming off injury.

Tell me arm strength wise, being able to read defenses, played against far better competition, what makes Bridgewater 2rds better than Bridgewater. I understand the need for a franchise QB, but no need to reach for one. Especially with guys like Clowney/Barr on the board.

i don't know about barr, but there is absolutely zero chance the texans take clowney 1.1

additionally, you are smoking crack if you think mettenschaub and murray have "as much talent as Bridgewater".

Exascor
12-07-2013, 10:04 PM
Tell me arm strength wise, being able to read defenses, played against far better competition, what makes Bridgewater 2rds better than Bridgewater.
I agree. I don't think Bridgewater is 2 rounds better than Bridgewater.

steelbtexan
12-07-2013, 10:10 PM
Counterpoint:

1) Presidents named Teddy have been amazing 100% of the time, so we're good there :swatter:

2) You should show her clips of Warren Moon and Cunningham :P

Is it racist to ask to see Moon/Cunningham's rings?

BTW, that's not why I dont like Bridgewater, 1. Arm strength, 2. Some avg performances against teams like UH.

steelbtexan
12-07-2013, 10:11 PM
I agree. I don't think Bridgewater is 2 rounds better than Bridgewater.

Will edit, For whatever reason that's the only post in thread that I am unable to edit. I guess the mods have a sense of humor.

Dyslexia at its finest.

Stemp
12-07-2013, 10:20 PM
I'm of the belief we need to see about trading down. There isn't a sure-fire, can't miss #1 overall guy. I think Case and Yates can get it done next year if we shore up what we left hanging by letting too many guys go. If we can get Jake Matthews at 5 or 6 and another ILB or a good DE or CB later in the first I'd be happy.

ArlingtonTexan
12-07-2013, 10:26 PM
Not sure why people keep saying this about the RGIII trade. The trade is not far off by the chart. Future picks are downgraded a round per year conventionally.

Mega trades involving multiple picks are very rare, so the so-called chart value is irrelevant. Teams willing to part with all this stuff are not that common unless the prospect is considered to be overused 'can't miss." I can't remember the last deal involving the 1st overall pick (Rivers/Eli maybe), but unless Bridgewater is rated higher than I think, while the best QB in this draft the chances of an RGIII are less than 10%, imo.

infantrycak
12-07-2013, 10:27 PM
Will edit, For whatever reason that's the only post in thread that I am unable to edit. I guess the mods have a sense of humor.

Dyslexia at its finest.

No clue what the problem is other than there is a time limit on how long you can edit. What do you want it to say?

Mega trades involving multiple picks are very rare, so the so-called chart value is irrelevant. Teams willing to part with all this stuff are not that common unless the prospect is considered to be overused 'can't miss." I can't remember the last deal involving the 1st overall pick (Rivers/Eli maybe), but unless Bridgewater is rated higher than I think, while the best QB in this draft the chances of an RGIII are less than 10%, imo.

I agree the key is whether Bridgewater is as highly coveted and big trades are rare. Likely not.

I hardly think a trade which is darn near spot on with the chart shows the chart to be irrelevant.

Now the Giants overpaid by the chart.

CretorFrigg
12-07-2013, 10:31 PM
I sort of like Bridgewater, myself. But my daughter, who is not a member, wants me to post her opinion:

"Quarterback should be a high priority. But I have a couple of misgivings about Teddy.
1. Guys named Ted are so often unspeakably evil criminals.
2. Black quarterbacks in the NFL have usually been inconsistent."

Can't tell if joking or not.

ArlingtonTexan
12-07-2013, 10:43 PM
No clue what the problem is other than there is a time limit on how long you can edit. What do you want it to say?



I agree the key is whether Bridgewater is as highly coveted and big trades are rare. Likely not.

I hardly think a trade which is darn near spot on with the chart shows the chart to be irrelevant.

Now the Giants overpaid by the chart.

From what I can tell (no linkage) more teams than not don't use that chart (floated around the internet for years now) at all and that nego. trade for RGIII being close was happenstance. other words, I don't think a good measure when evaluating trades any more.

DexmanC
12-07-2013, 10:43 PM
Is it racist to ask to see Moon/Cunningham's rings?

I see you've edited this, so I'll let it slide for now.. :tiphat:

Texans_Chick
12-07-2013, 10:44 PM
I enjoy Bill's writing.

My biggest issue with this analysis is that without knowing head coach, new way of doing business, hard to speak intelligently about the Texans future:

Things the piece ignores:

1. Problems with the GM. If you don't have a QB, you are dead in the water. If you have an average to below average GM, it's like having no good QB. Who knows what sort of GM Rick Smith will be once the rest of the more experienced Denver cartel has left the building? Theoretically, he could be better, but we have no evidence that training wheels off Rick Smith would be good at all. Dead.

2. If you have issues at GM, it puts a lot more pressure on getting the right head coach and assistant staff. We have no idea what direction they go.

3. QB changes are huge risk/reward propositions and hard to project. To hit at QB, you need 1 right guy, 2 right HC, OC, scheme, 3 good players around him to help development, 4 injury luck, in particular not getting injured during the learning process. We've mostly seen downside of QB development with the Texans, but that doesn't mean that is the only option. Just means that it is hard to project one way or another without knowing more details and actually seeing performance on the field. Picking high increases the chances of finding a guy who hits but we all know that it isn't a lock.

4. Some of the core players for the Texans are aging/declining/may be departing. Some players projected to be core players haven't produced yet--do they produce with better coaching. more experience? Don't know. Wade has had success with the DT, OLB position in other places. Not so much here other than moving JJ inside. Very few players having great years.

So in sum, I don't think we know enough now to be optimistic. (I wasn't terribly happy with some of the content of the presser--too much unprofessional Jerrah Bob, over-optimistic talk that suggests he's learned nothing from this experience). You'd think that even a below average team would have better turnover luck than the Texans did this year, and all that regression to mean blah blah stuff, but with the transition to whatever is the new coaching, who knows if it is a positive result or not until we see it.

Some teams turn it around right away. Some teams slog around for a long time with broken ways of doing things.

infantrycak
12-07-2013, 10:47 PM
From what I can tell (no linkage) more teams than not don't use that chart (floated around the internet for years now) at all and that nego. trade for RGIII being close was happenstance. other words, I don't think a good measure when evaluating trades any more.

From what I can tell (also no linkage) teams stopped using the chart for the top of the draft when the salaries got ridiculous but now that the contracts are held to something reasonable for the top of the 1st round it is back in use again. Not saying anyone is using it as a bible as it was always meant as a guide.

GuerillaBlack
12-07-2013, 10:49 PM
Man, it's gonna be fun watching Teddy every Sunday.

1.1 Bridgewater
2.1 Best RT avail
3.1 BPA
4.1 BPA
5.1 BPA
6.1 BPA
7.1 Kicker

Hyping up Teddy like he is a can't miss franchise QB prospect.

bOODRO87
12-07-2013, 10:57 PM
Texans have to roll the dice because I don't see why a team would trade for our pick. I'd rather roll the dice on Teddy because it's incredibly hard to succeed in this league with mediocre QB play. Teddy isn't surrounded with talent like McCarron. He doesn't heave it up for grabs to a security blanket like Manziel is with Mike Evans. He works with a pretty bad OL and hardly any NFL WR talent. I don't think Clowney along side of Watt would be a game changing pick. The Chiefs have a crazy good defensive line, but I highly doubt Alex Smith would get them to the big dance.

Tough choice for the GM.

Norg
12-07-2013, 10:58 PM
we aint going no were has long has rick smith is here



how do u think the new coach will feel don't u think he will want his own GM

SchaubApologist
12-07-2013, 11:08 PM
Hyping up Teddy like he is a can't miss franchise QB prospect.

IMO, he absolutely is a "can't miss, franchise QB".

I have no doubts about it.

Keep in mind I wanted us to draft Russell Wilson in the 1st round 2 years ago. I may not be a professional scout, but I put a lot of time in evaluating college QB's because I NEVER believed in Schaub.

cuppacoffee
12-07-2013, 11:16 PM
IMO, he absolutely is a "can't miss, franchise QB".

I have no doubts about it.

Keep in mind I wanted us to draft Russell Wilson in the 1st round 2 years ago. I may not be a professional scout, but I put a lot of time in evaluating college QB's because I NEVER believed in Schaub.

but did you stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night?

:coffee:

Uncle Rico
12-08-2013, 12:02 AM
Uncle Rico. I'll be upset if we don't draft Jadeveon Clowney number one overall. We need to add another beast up front to pair with J.J. Watt, especially if we move to a 4-3 defense depending on the new coaching staff.

I love the measurables with Clowney dont get me wrong. 6'6/250 4.4 speed. Even with all that he has played to avoid injury this year and other than that hit from last year hasnt really done anything of note. Physical freak, but then come out character flaws that drive me nuts, in particular his affinity to ride with his entourage everywhere which just screams "strip club shooting" in the near future if true.

If defense is the path then go Barr, he's only to going to get better considering he's new to the position. Pass rushers will always make you look good if they pan out.

I'm also on the Teddy B fan brigade. I mean Jameis Winston is an ideal guy also, I can go to the 'he had a rough start to the game tonight' card and try to mount an arugment, but no need ... i know he's that good, but do a search and the first things you'll read are 'not enough evidence' on a rape charge. Not having enough evidence doesnt automatically mean innocent either, thats all im saying. So while Teddy B may not be considered true blue chip, I know what I see. He doesnt have Winstons Oline or WR's ... he's under duress ALOT, natural talent. Maybe not as athletic as Winston, but hes smart on the field and to me that translates more to the cerebral nature of the position at the next level vs just relying on pure athletic ability.

OR, trade down and make a smart move for a change, at some point in time Rick Smith is going to need to make some risky move/high reward type of moves and no draft would be better than this one. I'd be okay with a top rated Lineman and Johnny Football if for anything the pure pandemonium that would break out, the marketing orgy that would ensue and the epic QB battle in the offseason between he and Keenum.

LOL, man im watching SC and they are running the Winston interview ... OMG im even more sure that Teddy B is the guy. Winston does not seem that bright to me at all. Yikes "and higher, and higher and higher" LOL

steelbtexan
12-08-2013, 12:09 AM
No clue what the problem is other than there is a time limit on how long you can edit. What do you want it to say?



I agree the key is whether Bridgewater is as highly coveted and big trades are rare. Likely not.

I hardly think a trade which is darn near spot on with the chart shows the chart to be irrelevant.

Now the Giants overpaid by the chart.

The last word of that post should be McCarron.


What do you think the chances to get a team to overpay for Bridgewater like they did for Manning would be?

SchaubApologist
12-08-2013, 12:46 AM
The last word of that post should be McCarron.


What do you think the chances to get a team to overpay for Bridgewater like they did for Manning would be?

When teams trade down because there is a franchise qb available, it's because they are usually set at the qb position.

for example, the st. louis rams. they made the trade with washington because they were confident that they had the franchise qb in sam bradford.

if the texans are fortunate enough to have 1.1, we are in no position to trade down because we have no franchise qb. yes, we have other holes. but, in this day & age of the nfl, you do not build a successful team around a DL, OL, WR, etc... You do so around a QB. Having an epic DL with an average qb will get us no further than we have already been.

You take the franchise qb, and you don't look back.

steelbtexan
12-08-2013, 01:02 AM
When teams trade down because there is a franchise qb available, it's because they are usually set at the qb position.

for example, the st. louis rams. they made the trade with washington because they were confident that they had the franchise qb in sam bradford.

if the texans are fortunate enough to have 1.1, we are in no position to trade down because we have no franchise qb. yes, we have other holes. but, in this day & age of the nfl, you do not build a successful team around a DL, OL, WR, etc... You do so around a QB. Having an epic DL with an average qb will get us no further than we have already been.

You take the franchise qb, and you don't look back.

If you consider Teddy to be a franchise QB.

Next yr off of the top of my head I can name 5 QB's I like as much or more than Bridgewater. This yr is a deep class it's time to build the trenches and create the depth the roster has always lacked. Get the QB in 2015. It wont cost as much as you think to trade up and get one of these guys. I worry about Rick picking the players for the Texans. I've been underwhelmed by his performance thus far.

1. Winston
2. Hogan
3.Petty
4. Hundley
5. Mariota

GuerillaBlack
12-08-2013, 01:27 AM
Just the Texans luck to pick first in a deep qb draft but no real franchise QBs, while next year is looking better with at least one franchise qb and similar depth.

bhsman
12-08-2013, 01:34 AM
Is it racist to ask to see Moon/Cunningham's rings?

No, but thanks for letting us know if you use rings as a judge of how good a quarterback was. We can safely ignore your opinions. :)

mussop
12-08-2013, 01:47 AM
I enjoy Bill's writing.

My biggest issue with this analysis is that without knowing head coach, new way of doing business, hard to speak intelligently about the Texans future:

Things the piece ignores:

1. Problems with the GM. If you don't have a QB, you are dead in the water. If you have an average to below average GM, it's like having no good QB. Who knows what sort of GM Rick Smith will be once the rest of the more experienced Denver cartel has left the building? Theoretically, he could be better, but we have no evidence that training wheels off Rick Smith would be good at all. Dead.

2. If you have issues at GM, it puts a lot more pressure on getting the right head coach and assistant staff. We have no idea what direction they go.

3. QB changes are huge risk/reward propositions and hard to project. To hit at QB, you need 1 right guy, 2 right HC, OC, scheme, 3 good players around him to help development, 4 injury luck, in particular not getting injured during the learning process. We've mostly seen downside of QB development with the Texans, but that doesn't mean that is the only option. Just means that it is hard to project one way or another without knowing more details and actually seeing performance on the field. Picking high increases the chances of finding a guy who hits but we all know that it isn't a lock.

4. Some of the core players for the Texans are aging/declining/may be departing. Some players projected to be core players haven't produced yet--do they produce with better coaching. more experience? Don't know. Wade has had success with the DT, OLB position in other places. Not so much here other than moving JJ inside. Very few players having great years.


This is why I haven't done any mock drafts. Seems pointless until most of these questions are answered.

steelbtexan
12-08-2013, 01:51 AM
No, but thanks for letting us know if you use rings as a judge of how good a quarterback was. We can safely ignore your opinions. :)

Wrong

Cunnigham's Minnesota team was probably the best team the yr they lost to Atl in the NFC championship game. Cunningham failed to recognize a blitz and fumbled giving the Falcons a cheap TD. He generally played like crap in the 2nd half. The Vikings would've still made it to the SB, But Gary Andersen missed a GW FG and the Vike lost to the Falcons in OT. (The only FG Andersen missed all yr.)

Ask many posters here about Moon's ability to choke in the clutch. Buffalo?

Denver the yr before? Kansas City the yr after Buffalo?

The Oilers probably had the most talented team at the time. Jimmy Johnson practiced with his Cowboys against the Oilers and said he was glad they didn't have to face the Oilers in a SB.

It's almost criminal that a Moon led team didn't make it atleast to an AFC championship game.

Tell you what, dont just ignore my opinions. Put me on ignore That should make your life easier.

bhsman
12-08-2013, 01:57 AM
Wrong

Cunnigham's Minnesota team was probably the best team the yr they lost to Atl in the NFC championship game. Cunningham failed to recognize a blitz and fumbled giving the Falcons a cheap TD. He generally played like crap in the 2nd half. The Vikings would've still made it to the SB, But Gary Andersen missed a GW FG and the Vike lost to the Falcons in OT. (The only FG Andersen missed all yr.)

Ask many posters here about Moon's ability to choke in the clutch. Buffalo?

Denver the yr before? Kansas City the yr after Buffalo?

The Oilers probably had the most talented team at the time. Jimmy Johnson practiced with his Cowboys against the Oilers and said he was glad they didn't have to face the Oilers in a SB.

It's almost criminal that a Moon led team didn't make it atleast to an AFC championship game.

Tell you what, dont just ignore my opinions. Put me on ignore That should make your life easier.

There was literally no point in making the RINGZ argument, however. It was really dumb of you.

steelbtexan
12-08-2013, 01:58 AM
There was literally no point in making the RINGZ argument, however. It was really dumb of you.

Not the 1st dumb thing that I've done. Wont be the last, however I seem to be getting better with age.

Marshall
12-08-2013, 02:20 AM
?

Since the Florida game....

268/382 (70.2%) for 3523 yards (9.2 y/a) with 28 TD's and 4 INT's.

You can not like him because he doesn't blowout UH. That's fine. But don't throw stuff like regression against the wall hoping it will stick. That is just simply inaccurate.

I'm sorry, but numbers against that competition mean little. We already have the guy with better numbers and he's still a question mark. No QB is going to do well without an improved right side o-line.

Marshall
12-08-2013, 02:23 AM
Franchise QB trumps franchise DL right?

Uh No!

Marshall
12-08-2013, 02:38 AM
IMO, he absolutely is a "can't miss, franchise QB".

I have no doubts about it.

Keep in mind I wanted us to draft Russell Wilson in the 1st round 2 years ago. I may not be a professional scout, but I put a lot of time in evaluating college QB's because I NEVER believed in Schaub.

I seem to have heard of several QBs coming out next year who would project higher than Bridgewater and QB depth (as opposed to quality) is notable this year. It's just not a QB or nothing year when it comes to the draft.

kiwitexansfan
12-08-2013, 02:41 AM
Uh No!

Prime Peyton Manning or Prime JJ Watt?

Lurvinator11
12-08-2013, 02:42 AM
Teddy is nice and all, but......

We should Wait for Winston!!!


In all seriousness, I don't know what route we should take. I'm just kind of taking this one on auto pilot for now. Gotta see what coach we bring in, and see what he wants.

TheMatrix31
12-08-2013, 03:04 AM
Get whoever has the best combination of talent and motor. I don't want players who are half-assed, worthless, lazy losers. I don't want dumb players with no character either. Perfectly content with another guy with the fire of Watt and Cushing.

We're not rebuilding though. I said it before McNair said it. This team needs depth but it doesn't necessarily need an overhaul overall. Just the coaching and training staff. I firmly believe we'll be right back where we should have been in 2013 if we do well with the coaching hire and have a decent enough draft.

Thorn
12-08-2013, 03:06 AM
Teddy is nice and all, but......

We should Wait for Winston!!!


In all seriousness, I don't know what route we should take. I'm just kind of taking this one on auto pilot for now. Gotta see what coach we bring in, and see what he wants.

Yep. For me I'm trying to hold off on to much speculation until we find out who our new coach is, and if Rick Smith is staying.

Nitrofish
12-08-2013, 03:29 AM
Yep. For me I'm trying to hold off on to much speculation until we find out who our new coach is, and if Rick Smith is staying.

If Smith was going to get the axe, wouldn't he have been thrown out with Kubiak and Marciano? What would be the point of keeping him the rest of the season if uncle Bob was done with him also? Looks to me like Smith is safe even though I think he should be gone too. Bob thinks it's just a coaching issue and is going to ride with Smith for at least one more year IMO.

Exascor
12-08-2013, 07:11 AM
If Smith was going to get the axe, wouldn't he have been thrown out with Kubiak and Marciano? What would be the point of keeping him the rest of the season if uncle Bob was done with him also? Looks to me like Smith is safe even though I think he should be gone too. Bob thinks it's just a coaching issue and is going to ride with Smith for at least one more year IMO.I agree but with you that Smith should be gone already but...Casserly didn't "resign" until after the draft after Kubiak was hired. Why that happened we'll never know but the point is Smith could still go.

heymak
12-08-2013, 09:10 AM
Is it racist to ask to see Moon/Cunningham's rings?....


How about just add Doug Williams to the list. If not racist at least just plain silly. Talent is talent.

BullNation4Life
12-08-2013, 10:45 AM
Man, it's gonna be fun watching Teddy every Sunday.

1.1 Bridgewater
2.1 Best RT avail
3.1 BPA
4.1 BPA
5.1 BPA
6.1 BPA
7.1 Kicker

Then get ready for more mediocrity in the near Texans future because Bridgewater is NOT a franchise QB. He will be a backup at best. NOTHING about this kid screams franchise QB...

Mediocre arm with mediocre talent playing in a mediocre conference. Oh yeah, THAT screams #1 over all pick...:rolleyes:

Uncle Rico
12-08-2013, 11:00 AM
Then get ready for more mediocrity in the near Texans future because Bridgewater is NOT a franchise QB. He will be a backup at best. NOTHING about this kid screams franchise QB...

Mediocre arm with mediocre talent playing in a mediocre conference. Oh yeah, THAT screams #1 over all pick...:rolleyes:

YOu opinion of him not being franchise is one that could be defended.

Your examples of him having a 'mediocre arm' and then using the tired 'mediocre conference/college record' to somehow validate your statement is ignorant at best.

So all successful NFL QB's come from power conferences where they went undefeated right? How many SEC QB's are tearing it up in The League right now?

Do you know how scouting works? The indicators you look for in a QB? Teddy B can make all the throws, adjusts blocking assignments at the line, crazy accurate and throws a beautiful ball, I dont understand where these uninformed posts come from. Just say you dont like him, dont try to solidfy your argument using bogus claims you look foolish. Better yet why dont you go look up some film, some interviews, and then comb through the roster and ask yourself how many other NFL type guys does Teddy B play with?

"Backup at Best" ?? LMAO Those were the words that Mayock used to describe Case Keenum. Good Stuff there buddy.

bOODRO87
12-08-2013, 11:07 AM
Then get ready for more mediocrity in the near Texans future because Bridgewater is NOT a franchise QB. He will be a backup at best. NOTHING about this kid screams franchise QB...

Mediocre arm with mediocre talent playing in a mediocre conference. Oh yeah, THAT screams #1 over all pick...:rolleyes:

Bless your little heart.

Bulls on Parade
12-08-2013, 11:10 AM
Yep. For me I'm trying to hold off on to much speculation until we find out who our new coach is, and if Rick Smith is staying.
Unfortunately he is.

steelbtexan
12-08-2013, 12:35 PM
How about just add Doug Williams to the list. If not racist at least just plain silly. Talent is talent.

Love Williams he was a pioneer.

Not so much Moon talent is talent, what did Moon ever win? Even though he had the most talented team in the NFL for a 4 yr period.

bhsman
12-08-2013, 12:44 PM
Love Williams he was a pioneer.

Not so much Moon talent is talent, what did Moon ever win? Even though he had the most talented team in the NFL for a 4 yr period.

You should tell us why Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Marino.

steelbtexan
12-08-2013, 01:02 PM
You should tell us why Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Marino.

Exaggeration much?

Dilfer did come up big in the playoffs.

BTW, Marino despite all of his records is only about 10th on my list.

Give me Aikman over Marino any day for instance. Aikman gave up personal stats for the good of the team. Aikman = winner.

bhsman
12-08-2013, 01:06 PM
Exaggeration much?

Dilfer did come up big in the playoffs.

BTW, Marino despite all of his records is only about 10th on my list.

Give me Aikman over Marino any day for instance. Aikman gave up personal stats for the good of the team. Aikman = winner.

Give me Aikman's offensive line first. They technically have more rings, and that's all you care about, right?

BullNation4Life
12-08-2013, 02:29 PM
YOu opinion of him not being franchise is one that could be defended.

Your examples of him having a 'mediocre arm' and then using the tired 'mediocre conference/college record' to somehow validate your statement is ignorant at best.

So all successful NFL QB's come from power conferences where they went undefeated right? How many SEC QB's are tearing it up in The League right now?

Do you know how scouting works? The indicators you look for in a QB? Teddy B can make all the throws, adjusts blocking assignments at the line, crazy accurate and throws a beautiful ball, I dont understand where these uninformed posts come from. Just say you dont like him, dont try to solidfy your argument using bogus claims you look foolish. Better yet why dont you go look up some film, some interviews, and then comb through the roster and ask yourself how many other NFL type guys does Teddy B play with?

"Backup at Best" ?? LMAO Those were the words that Mayock used to describe Case Keenum. Good Stuff there buddy.

annnnd Keenum is a backup "At Best"

sure he can make all the throws, on a college level and against inferior teams, doesn't mean he can do it on a NFL level. Hell, none of the QBs in this draft scream #1 pick, so it isn't about me not liking Bridgwater, just not impressed and don't think he is worth the pick. Sorry if my opinion got your panties in a wad. I know a good doctor for that...

No, not all successful QBs are from power conferences but MOST come from schools better than Louisville. I wont get into the fact the best team he played all year was UCF and lost.

I have watched plenty of Louisville games and was absolutely unimpressed with Bridgewater. He looked like the typical "great college" QB but I see him washing out as an NFL QB.

Yes average arm at best maybe a slight above average but nothing special, don't give a damn how beautiful of a ball he throws. Schaub threw a beautiful ball and for the most part was accurate, and he damn sure isn't a NFL starter so that doesn't mean squat if the QB cannot read a defense.

so when the Texans take him #1 and in 3 years the kid looks like David Carr, where should I send the "I told you so" card?

BullNation4Life
12-08-2013, 02:30 PM
Bless your little heart.

I know, I hate when I am right too...

Honoring Earl 34
12-08-2013, 02:55 PM
Exaggeration much?

Dilfer did come up big in the playoffs.

BTW, Marino despite all of his records is only about 10th on my list.

Give me Aikman over Marino any day for instance. Aikman gave up personal stats for the good of the team. Aikman = winner.

I'm thinking if you put Marino on the Cowboys they would've been better than the Aikman led Cowboys . Just my 2 cents .

Marshall
12-08-2013, 03:05 PM
Love Williams he was a pioneer.

Not so much Moon talent is talent, what did Moon ever win? Even though he had the most talented team in the NFL for a 4 yr period.

5 Grey Cups?

JB
12-08-2013, 03:13 PM
5 Grey Cups?

Yeah, you can't blame Moon for Bud

mussop
12-08-2013, 04:39 PM
Moon was the best roll out passer I have ever seen. They ruined him by trying to turn him into Marino.

SchaubApologist
12-08-2013, 05:05 PM
Then get ready for more mediocrity in the near Texans future because Bridgewater is NOT a franchise QB. He will be a backup at best. NOTHING about this kid screams franchise QB...

Mediocre arm with mediocre talent playing in a mediocre conference. Oh yeah, THAT screams #1 over all pick...:rolleyes:

clown post bro

:clown:

i bet you are a joy to be around. please don't take your personal frustrations and failures out on your dog.

SchaubApologist
12-08-2013, 05:06 PM
annnnd Keenum is a backup "At Best"

sure he can make all the throws, on a college level and against inferior teams, doesn't mean he can do it on a NFL level. Hell, none of the QBs in this draft scream #1 pick, so it isn't about me not liking Bridgwater, just not impressed and don't think he is worth the pick. Sorry if my opinion got your panties in a wad. I know a good doctor for that...

No, not all successful QBs are from power conferences but MOST come from schools better than Louisville. I wont get into the fact the best team he played all year was UCF and lost.

I have watched plenty of Louisville games and was absolutely unimpressed with Bridgewater. He looked like the typical "great college" QB but I see him washing out as an NFL QB.

Yes average arm at best maybe a slight above average but nothing special, don't give a damn how beautiful of a ball he throws. Schaub threw a beautiful ball and for the most part was accurate, and he damn sure isn't a NFL starter so that doesn't mean squat if the QB cannot read a defense.

so when the Texans take him #1 and in 3 years the kid looks like David Carr, where should I send the "I told you so" card?

Yes, the 2013 sugar bowl was against an inferior team.... SMH

get a clue

BullNation4Life
12-08-2013, 06:09 PM
clown post bro

:clown:

i bet you are a joy to be around. please don't take your personal frustrations and failures out on your dog.

clown response...

I am a joy because I tell the truth and the truth will come out here in about 5 months...

Clown post because you can't see the forest for the trees? I'll be sending you a "I told you so" card as well...

Nothing personal about it, it is a simple opinion that many will share when the combine comes around....

BullNation4Life
12-08-2013, 06:14 PM
Yes, the 2013 sugar bowl was against an inferior team.... SMH

get a clue

Oh that's right because beating 1 team with a decent record makes an NFL QB...

I have the clue, would you like to borrow it?

Sugar bowl stats...

BRIDGEWATER, T. 20-32-1 266 2

WOW I mean I was totally wrong! Texans must draft this kid #1, I mean an average game from an average QB is EXACTLY the Texans style.

Thank you for bringing me into the light...

:rolleyes:

Texian
12-08-2013, 06:17 PM
Then get ready for more mediocrity in the near Texans future because Bridgewater is NOT a franchise QB. He will be a backup at best. NOTHING about this kid screams franchise QB...

Mediocre arm with mediocre talent playing in a mediocre conference. Oh yeah, THAT screams #1 over all pick...:rolleyes:

annnnd Keenum is a backup "At Best"

sure he can make all the throws, on a college level and against inferior teams, doesn't mean he can do it on a NFL level. Hell, none of the QBs in this draft scream #1 pick, so it isn't about me not liking Bridgwater, just not impressed and don't think he is worth the pick. Sorry if my opinion got your panties in a wad. I know a good doctor for that...

No, not all successful QBs are from power conferences but MOST come from schools better than Louisville. I wont get into the fact the best team he played all year was UCF and lost.

I have watched plenty of Louisville games and was absolutely unimpressed with Bridgewater. He looked like the typical "great college" QB but I see him washing out as an NFL QB.

Yes average arm at best maybe a slight above average but nothing special, don't give a damn how beautiful of a ball he throws. Schaub threw a beautiful ball and for the most part was accurate, and he damn sure isn't a NFL starter so that doesn't mean squat if the QB cannot read a defense.

so when the Texans take him #1 and in 3 years the kid looks like David Carr, where should I send the "I told you so" card?

:clap:

Texian
12-08-2013, 06:19 PM
Oh that's right because beating 1 team with a decent record makes an NFL QB...

I have the clue, would you like to borrow it?

Sugar bowl stats...

BRIDGEWATER, T. 20-32-1 266 2

average game , what a shock.

The real story of that Sugar Bowl was the Gator 3 Offensive turnovers.

BullNation4Life
12-08-2013, 06:23 PM
The real story of that Sugar Bowl was the Gator 3 Offensive turnovers.

Yes because Driskel was the QB...

Bridgewater was sacked 5 times in that game, so it wasn't totally on the Gator D.

WolverineFan
12-08-2013, 06:45 PM
Oh that's right because beating 1 team with a decent record makes an NFL QB...

I have the clue, would you like to borrow it?

Sugar bowl stats...

BRIDGEWATER, T. 20-32-1 266 2

WOW I mean I was totally wrong! Texans must draft this kid #1, I mean an average game from an average QB is EXACTLY the Texans style.

Thank you for bringing me into the light...

:rolleyes:

I don't have a problem with your opinion. You're not impressed with him, that's fine. I'm not trying to change your mind with this post, merely just add some perspective to it.

Florida's starting defense vs. Louisville

DE - Dominique Easley
- Considered a 1st rd prospect this year, but tore his acl early in the year. If he declares will probably be a 2nd round pick

NT - Omar Hunter
- UDFA for the Steelers

DT - Shariff Floyd
- 23rd overall pick by Vikings

BUCK - Lerentee McCray
- UDFA for the Broncos

OLB - Neiron Ball
- Currently a junior OLB for UF

MLB - Jonathan Bostic
- 50th overall pick by the Bears

NICKEL - Loucheiz Purifoy
- Projected as a 3rd round pick for this year's draft

CB - Jaylen Watkins
- Projected as a 5th round pick for this year's draft

SS - Matt Elam
- 32nd overall pick by the Ravens

FS - Josh Evans
- 169th overall pick by the Jaguars

CB - Marcus Roberson
- Projected as a 2nd round pick for this year's draft


Keep in mind that, more than likely, the only players from that Louisville offense that will be drafted are Bridgewater and his WR DeVante Parker. OG Alex Kupper was an UDFA the Texans stashed on their practice squad.

If you watched the game, Bridgewater was not average. He played a very impressive game against a stacked defense and had little talent to work with against it. That's why so many people were impressed with this one game.

FWIW, I agree with you that body of work is more important than one game.

76Texan
12-08-2013, 07:10 PM
I don't have a problem with your opinion. You're not impressed with him, that's fine. I'm not trying to change your mind with this post, merely just add some perspective to it.

Florida's starting defense vs. Louisville

DE - Dominique Easley
- Considered a 1st rd prospect this year, but tore his acl early in the year. If he declares will probably be a 2nd round pick

NT - Omar Hunter
- UDFA for the Steelers

DT - Shariff Floyd
- 23rd overall pick by Vikings

BUCK - Lerentee McCray
- UDFA for the Broncos

OLB - Neiron Ball
- Currently a junior OLB for UF

MLB - Jonathan Bostic
- 50th overall pick by the Bears

NICKEL - Loucheiz Purifoy
- Projected as a 3rd round pick for this year's draft

CB - Jaylen Watkins
- Projected as a 5th round pick for this year's draft

SS - Matt Elam
- 32nd overall pick by the Ravens

FS - Josh Evans
- 169th overall pick by the Jaguars

CB - Marcus Roberson
- Projected as a 2nd round pick for this year's draft


Keep in mind that, more than likely, the only players from that Louisville offense that will be drafted are Bridgewater and his WR DeVante Parker. OG Alex Kupper was an UDFA the Texans stashed on their practice squad.

If you watched the game, Bridgewater was not average. He played a very impressive game against a stacked defense and had little talent to work with against it. That's why so many people were impressed with this one game.

FWIW, I agree with you that body of work is more important than one game.
Remember I mentioned how Keenum out scored Bama 17 points in his rookie year (he was splitting time with another QB who was part of the reasons UH was in a big hole.)

Alabama started having problem after that game, what with all the suspensions and injuries.

That defense there was as close to an NFL defense that you will find in college.

Keenum outplayed Bridgewater against a better defense as a rookie.
What's so hot about Teddy?

WolverineFan
12-08-2013, 07:35 PM
Remember I mentioned how Keenum out scored Bama 17 points in his rookie year (he was splitting time with another QB who was part of the reasons UH was in a big hole.)

Alabama started having problem after that game, what with all the suspensions and injuries.

That defense there was as close to an NFL defense that you will find in college.

Keenum outplayed Bridgewater against a better defense as a rookie.
What's so hot about Teddy?

That's not a good comparison at all.

Case Keenum vs. Alabama
11/17 for 132 yards with 1 TD and 2 INT's (54.8 QBR)

Teddy Bridgewater vs. Florida
20/32 for 266 yards with 2 TD's and 1 INT (88.6 QBR)


Not to mention that UF's defense last year was ranked #3 in the country and had 4 starters drafted last year with 4 more projected to go this year. That's 8 guys drafted and 2 UDFA's on that UF defense.

That Alabama team went 7-5 in Saban's 1st year and ranked 31st in defense. That team was recruited by Mike Shula and was nowhere near as talented as the current Alabama teams. That defense had 3 starters eventually drafted; Rashad Johnson, Rolando McClain (true freshman in 07), and Kareem Jackson (true freshman in 07). Brandon Deaderick and Javier Arenas were also drafted off that defense, but were not starters in 07.

steelbtexan
12-08-2013, 07:53 PM
IIRC, Florida lost the SEC championship game and played in the Sugar Bowl like they really didn't want to be there.

Steal Your Face
12-08-2013, 07:56 PM
Uncle Rico. I'll be upset if we don't draft Jadeveon Clowney number one overall. We need to add another beast up front to pair with J.J. Watt, especially if we move to a 4-3 defense depending on the new coaching staff.

I'd be willing to bet you the one player we won't draft (regardless where we pick) is Jadeveon Clowney.

htownfan32
12-08-2013, 08:24 PM
I'd be willing to bet you the one player we won't draft (regardless where we pick) is Jadeveon Clowney.

Yeah, if we take Clowney over Barr... actually, we won't. If Barr is there there is no way you pass on a guy like him for Mario Williams 2.0

Texian
12-08-2013, 08:30 PM
IIRC, Florida lost the SEC championship game and played in the Sugar Bowl like they really didn't want to be there.

Georgia and Alabama played the SEC Championship game. However if FLA had an above avg QB they likely would be NC.

leebigeztx
12-08-2013, 08:34 PM
What makes you think Bridgewater is the answer? He has not looked impressive in a lot of his starts including; UH, Memphis, Rutgers and Cincinnati. I don't get this Teddy fever. If you were to take any the other 1st or 2nd round quarterbacks and play those same teams it would be a total blow out.

He plays in the AAC, these are NOT GOOD DEFENSES IN COLLEGE. He has had one good victory over Florida but he has really regressed since then.

Regressed? Do u even watch college football. Just because the guy is smooth,not flashy,fundementally sound,mechanically on point,doesn't mean he's regressed. Even those who make the arguments against bridgewater,no one has ever said he's regressed.

leebigeztx
12-08-2013, 09:25 PM
If you consider Teddy to be a franchise QB.

Next yr off of the top of my head I can name 5 QB's I like as much or more than Bridgewater. This yr is a deep class it's time to build the trenches and create the depth the roster has always lacked. Get the QB in 2015. It wont cost as much as you think to trade up and get one of these guys. I worry about Rick picking the players for the Texans. I've been underwhelmed by his performance thus far.

1. Winston
2. Hogan
3.Petty
4. Hundley
5. Mariota

I hope u don't feel like I'm trolling you because I'm not. I just always find it amusing when you list these guys aside from maybe winston. I like winston a lot,but he doesn't read the field either because his wrs are winning early. Not his fault. Mariotta will not throw a guy open. When they played stanford a game in which your other favorite threw for like 100 yds,mariotta kept pulling the ball down becase guys weren't open as much as he's used to seeing. Hundley is very,very inconsistent. All of these guys with the exception of winston are in the same yr of development as bridgewater yet he's light years ahead of those guys in terms of making throws into windows,game management at the los,and just mentally. If bridgewater goes back,which I doubt,he will still be ahead of those guys. In the case of those guys,I guess we're suppose to sit back through another 3 win season right.

Again,this trenches warefare you bring up,which I do like,you have to tell me why the texans can't do it in the mid to later rds.When they were so called realy good on the o-line, they had brown(late 1st),smith(journeyman)meyers(5th rd),briesel(udfa),and winston(3rd) as their trench guys. On dl,which I think they have been too small feature jj(11th pick 1st rd) , ninja(was a 4th rd ,fa). If they get a big nt who can play,get crick in at lde,play jones at lg and quess at rt,I think they're gonna be pretty good in the trenches. That wouldn't rule meout from having competetion at those spots.

Every draft,this board wants to trade down,but someone has to wanna trade up and give up picks which is not always the case. For all the good rivers,nugent,and merriman did immediately,the chargers with rivers haven't won a sb nor even been to a conf title game. Is that to say it was a bad trade? No,but eli has 2 rings,rivers has none.The rg3 trade has netted the rams exactly what? Brockers,austin(whom they gave up picks acquired to get),jenkins,and whomever they get this year. Sounds good doesn't it,but look at bradford who isn't the answer. At least rg3 won the won the division his 1st season and looks closer,despite the struggles this year as being the guy vs bradford. Now the rams will miss the playoffs for the 12th straight season and still don't have a qb.