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Playoffs
12-07-2013, 05:33 PM
1Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE
Tkl 25Sack 3.0Int 0
He picked up another sack this weekend, but his stat line will draw some scrutiny. I just don't think the scrutiny will hold up when people really watch the tape. Clowney has the quickness to beat people at the point of attack, the strength and strong hands to shed blocks and can pursue all over. He's not just an edge rusher looking to quickly turn the corner, as he beats average tackles both inside and outside, which prompts many double-teams. Teams make a great effort to neutralize him.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 1 | PLAYER CARD

2Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB
Tkl 63Sack 10.0Int 0
His return has been a success, and he seems destined for the top five. He's remained a disruptive force even with added attention, and become a better player. He's a good pass-rusher, but I love his pursuit when the play runs away from him. A former fullback, he has a powerful lower half and has a long frame and reach. He could have left for the NFL in the spring, but more seasoning has him in great shape for 2014.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 2 | PLAYER CARD

3Jake MatthewsAGE: 21DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT
GP 12GS 12
Another good story of a player returning and improving his draft status. A complete left tackle prospect with experience and a feisty, competitive nature. He's an intense worker and has great NFL bloodlines; his father, brother and two cousins have played in the league. Has strong skills as both a pass-protector and a finisher in the run game.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 3 | PLAYER CARD


4Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB
Comp 245Att 345Pct 71.0Yds 3,268TD 25Int 3
Bridgewater is poised, smart, a consistent player and leader, and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation. He has great poise and increased polish. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement. I really like how he calibrates his throws, not using too much arm when he doesn't need to.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 4 | PLAYER CARD

5Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB
Tkl 94Sack 11.0Int 3
You can knock Mack due to competition, but you really have to watch him play and see how he lines up all over and can do everything to appreciate him. He is versatile and capable of rushing the passer with quickness and decent power, dropping into coverage and shedding tackles and making plays in the open field. He uses proper leverage to take on blocks and drive people back, and uses quickness and strong hands to shed. Plays with a great motor, but smart.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 7 | PLAYER CARD

6C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB
Tkl 100Sack 0Int 0
He doesn't look the part of an enforcer in the middle of a defense, but Mosley has the versatility and great cover skills that will make him an appealing talent in any scheme. He flies to the ball, scrapes well and gets off blocks and makes a ton of plays; now he simply needs to get a bit stronger and show leverage going downhill against the run. But on the weak side, he gets through blocks and chases everything down (or just beats people to the ball). That's where his future will be.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 6 | PLAYER CARD

7Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR
Rec 85Yds 1,237Avg 14.6TD 10
Watkins still has the same explosiveness that jumped off the screen during his freshman year, with added power, and also does a better job of working back to the ball to become a big factor when plays break down. He is extremely explosive, both before and after the catch. He has strong hands and uses his strength to beat defenders for the ball. The idea that he had a "down" season in 2012 was overstated, by the way.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 8 | PLAYER CARD

8Stephon Tuitt *AGE: 20DOB: 5/23/93HT: 6-6WT: 315POS: DE
Tkl 45Sack 6.0Int 1
Tuitt has a great combination of size and quickness, and I've compared him to a young Richard Seymour when he's playing at his best. He offers tremendous burst and power and the ability to work inside or outside and create pressure. Teams looking for a penetrating 3-4 DE will like his potential, but last season he also looked quick enough to turn the corner as a 4-3 DE, which is saying something for someone playing at about 320 pounds.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 9 | PLAYER CARD

9Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-1WT: 195POS: WR
Rec 50Yds 673Avg 13.5TD 2
Looks explosive again, fully recovered from a knee that was hurting and slowed him some this season. Lee is a great prospect because he has so many NFL-ready traits. He has good speed, both in the short area and to beat defenders deep, is an effective route-runner, makes most routine catches and can play bigger than his size to make the spectacular ones. He's physical and extremely dangerous after the catch and will run through many arm tackles.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 10 | PLAYER CARD

10Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT
Tkl 27Sack 0Int 0
Guys like this are such a rare commodity. Nix is occasionally moved too easily and loses gap control, but at his best he has the rare size and strength to handle a zero-technique role -- keeping multiple blockers occupied and eating up two gaps, making life easy for linebackers cleaning up against the run. But he's not limited to that because he can really move, at least a lot better than you'd expect from a player his size.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 11 | PLAYER CARD

11Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE
Rec 55Yds 895Avg 16.3TD 3
An athletic tight who can haul in anything you throw his way, will be split out and can make plays after the catch. Has the size to overwhelm cornerbacks and most safeties, and also good burst and above-average straight-line speed. He can go up and get the ball, and does a good job of catching it with his hands away from his body. Great body control allows him to haul in errant throws. A QB's best friend.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 12 | PLAYER CARD

12Johnny Manziel **AGE: 20DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 206POS: QB
Comp 270Att 391Pct 69.1Yds 3,732TD 33Int 13
As competitive a player as you'll find, it's a reflection of how he plays; Manziel's attitude is that the play is never really over. He's an improviser and a gifted playmaker. Will that translate to the next level? Not perfectly, but a QB who can turn negative plays into positive ones has real value, and Manziel is plenty capable of executing the scripted stuff, too. He sees the whole field, has tremendous touch and would deliver strikes with more velocity if he kept his feet underneath him consistently.

PREVIOUS RANKING: No. 13 | PLAYER CARD

13Brett Hundley **AGE: 20DOB: 6/15/93HT: 6-3WT: 222POS: QB
Comp 232Att 342Pct 67.8Yds 2,845TD 22Int 9
This could be the next big decision that could shift the board, as Hundley could return to college. He is supremely gifted when it comes to raw tools -- his arm strength is obvious, and he might be ahead of schedule as an improviser when things break down. He'll just want to improve his command on throws because he's accurate but can be erratic with ball placement. He does a good job and is ahead of schedule with his pocket presence, ability to climb instead of retreat and with a sense of how to move away from pressure with his eyes down the field.

PREVIOUS RANK: No. 22 | PLAYER CARD

14Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

15Brandon Scherff *AGE: 21DOB: 12/26/91HT: 6-5WT: 315POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

16Vic Beasley *AGE: 21DOB: 7/8/92HT: 6-3WT: 235POS: LB
Tkl 35Sack 12.0Int 0

17Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB
Tkl 121Sack 6.0Int 0

18Ifo Ekpre-Olomu *AGE: 20DOB: 7/10/93HT: 5-10WT: 190POS: CB
Tkl 78Sack 0Int 3

19Carlos Hyde AGE: 22DOB: 9/20/91HT: 6-0WT: 242POS: RB
Att 165Yds 1,290Avg 7.8TD 14

20Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/22/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

21Cyrus Kouandjio *AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

22Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT
Tkl 44Sack 5.0Int 0

23Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 20DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S
Tkl 44Sack 0Int 2

24Loucheiz Purifoy *AGE: 20DOB: 12/16/92HT: 6-1WT: 189POS: CB
Tkl 24Sack 2.0Int 2

25Scott Crichton *AGE: 22DOB: 10/30/91HT: 6-3WT: 265POS: DE
Tkl 43Sack 6.5Int 0

Playoffs
12-18-2013, 11:44 AM
1.Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE
Tkl 36Sack 3.0Int 0

Whether he or Barr is taken first has more to do with scheme fit than performance. Clowney has the quickness to beat people at the point of attack, the power to run through blockers and the speed to pursue all over. He's not just an edge rusher looking to quickly turn the corner; he doesn't even bend that well. He beats average tackles both inside and outside with his first step.

2.Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB
Tkl 63Sack 10.0Int 0

Has emerged as a possibility to go No. 1 overall and could be preferred to Clowney based on fit. A disruptive force even with added attention, Barr has become a better and more complete player. He's a good pass-rusher, using quick feet and hands to free himself, and he's disciplined. I love his pursuit when the play runs away from him. A former fullback, he has a powerful lower half and a long frame and reach.

3.Jake MatthewsAGE: 21DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

4.Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB
Tkl 94Sack 11.0Int 3

5.C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB
Tkl 100Sack 0Int 0

6.Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR
Rec 85Yds 1,237Avg 14.6TD 10

7.Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-1WT: 195POS: WR
Rec 50Yds 673Avg 13.5TD 2

8.Stephon Tuitt *AGE: 20DOB: 5/23/93HT: 6-6WT: 315POS: DE
Tkl 45Sack 6.0Int 1

9.Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT
GP 13GS 13

Has risen more than any prospect this season and may not be done. Brought in as a guard, Robinson started at left tackle in the SEC as a redshirt freshman and held his own. This year, he was dominant, with increased strength making him closer to that complete package at tackle. He moves really well, with a powerful lower half that makes him tough to push backward; he has long arms and delivers a punch. He gets a good push in the run game and can get out in front. Could become a special player at tackle.

10.Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB
Comp 268Att 382Pct 70.2Yds 3,523TD 28Int 4

He drops a little on my board this week after more time to review, but he's still almost certain to go in the top-five range if he comes out. Bridgewater is poised and smart and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation in this class. He has a good blend of arm strength to drive the ball into tight windows and the sense of when to take some heat off the ball. He's very catchable. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement.

11.Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/31/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT
Tkl 27Sack 0Int 0

12.Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT
Tkl 44Sack 5.0Int 0

13.Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE
Rec 55Yds 895Avg 16.3TD 3

14J.ohnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 206POS: QB
Comp 270Att 391Pct 69.1Yds 3,732TD 33Int 13

15.Vic Beasley *AGE: 21DOB: 7/8/92HT: 6-3WT: 235POS: LB
Tkl 35Sack 12.0Int 0

16.Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB
Tkl 133Sack 6.0Int 0

17.Brett Hundley **AGE: 20DOB: 6/15/93HT: 6-3WT: 222POS: QB
Comp 232Att 342Pct 67.8Yds 2,845TD 22Int 9

18.Ifo Ekpre-Olomu *AGE: 20DOB: 7/10/93HT: 5-10WT: 190POS: CB
Tkl 78Sack 0Int 3

19.Carlos Hyde AGE: 22DOB: 9/20/91HT: 6-0WT: 242POS: RB
Att 183Yds 1,408Avg 7.7TD 14

20.Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

21.Justin Gilbert AGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 200POS: CB
Tkl 40Sack 0Int 6

22.Cyrus Kouandjio *AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT
GP 12GS 12

23.Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 20DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S
Tkl 44Sack 0Int 2

24.Trent Murphy AGE: 22DOB: 12/22/90HT: 6-6WT: 261POS: LB
Tkl 58Sack 14Int 1

25.Darqueze Dennard AGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 197POS: CB
Tkl 59Sack 0Int 4

bhsman
12-18-2013, 12:16 PM
Interesting that Kiper thinks Barr could go #1 based on schematic fit; it might not be the worst idea.

beerlover
12-18-2013, 12:20 PM
Interesting that Kiper thinks Barr could go #1 based on schematic fit; it might not be the worst idea.

It might also be the very basis for reaching.

Blake
12-18-2013, 12:31 PM
Anthony BarrAGE

I think he should change his name to that. Sounds way cooler!

bhsman
12-18-2013, 12:43 PM
It might also be the very basis for reaching.

Eh, I feel like it would lean more towards BPA, but I'd prefer Clowney FWIW

TexansFTW
12-18-2013, 01:46 PM
Kiper's lists get wilder and crazier every week I check back on them. I love this thread and can't wait to look back at how it will look absolutely nothing like the NFL draft come May.

Blake
12-18-2013, 01:49 PM
Kiper's lists get wilder and crazier every week I check back on them. I love this thread and can't wait to look back at how it will look absolutely nothing like the NFL draft come May.

True. The problem is that Kiper and other draft "experts" have none of the inside stuff that the teams get in order to accurately slot them. So Kipers list is based off of tape and perception only. Pretty much like our lists. Until teams start leaking info all lists will be way outta wack IMO.

bah007
12-18-2013, 02:04 PM
Kiper actually gets a lot of his info from NFL front office guys. Problem is sometimes they lie to him and he gets something way wrong.

He doesn't do much scouting on his own. He talks to people in the know and bases his opinions on what they tell him. That's why his lists are always changing so drastically and frequently.

Playoffs
12-18-2013, 02:18 PM
Kiper actually gets a lot of his info from NFL front office guys. Problem is sometimes they lie to him and he gets something way wrong.

He doesn't do much scouting on his own. He talks to people in the know and bases his opinions on what they tell him. That's why his lists are always changing so drastically and frequently.

Bingo. Kiper is not a scout, and half of the organizations lie to him and the other half feeds him misinformation. :ahhaha:

And note this is not a mock draft, it's a "BPA" list. Big difference. There will be a lot more QBs at the top of a draft board this year.

So why post Kiper's stuff? He does "hear" things in the circles he is now in, and you can pick up a nugget or two about how a certain player is thought of.

bah007
12-18-2013, 02:20 PM
Bingo. Kiper is not a scout, and half of the organizations lie to him and the other half feeds him misinformation. :ahhaha:

And note this is not a mock draft, it's a "BPA" list. Big difference. There will be a lot more QBs at the top of a draft board this year.

So why post Kiper's stuff? He does "hear" things in the circles he is now in, and you can pick up a nugget or two about how a certain player is thought of.

Yeah I have no problem with Kiper's stuff being posted on here. Just as long as we realize where it came from and don't take it as the gospel.

b0ng
12-18-2013, 02:27 PM
Kiper's lists get wilder and crazier every week I check back on them. I love this thread and can't wait to look back at how it will look absolutely nothing like the NFL draft come May.

At this point last year people were arguing whether Smith or Barkley would be the better QB in the NFL.

There's no accounting for teams being weird with their draft picks and guys taking huge falls, especially at the Combine if their numbers don't equal up to their performance on tape. Hell their bowl games haven't even played, something that has added significant boosts to players (Jamarcus Russell comes to mind, in his bowl game against ND). And then we are going to hear about guys blowing up in the Senior Bowl, East/West Shrine game, the Combine, Pro-Days and then the absolute ridiculousness of all the speculation once the meat of the process is over (remember, the draft is moving back into May next year).

We also haven't done free agency yet which also plays a large part in who drafts what. There are a few guys who are pretty decent at final draft predictions (Rick Gosseling writes for one of the Dallas papers and was pretty good at it) as well as Mayock and some others. All of their draft boards (except for Gosseling because he basically releases just one final mock about a week before the actual draft) change over the course of the off-season.

One of the best things about Kiper, is not his analysis itself, it's his database brain which has information on even the most obscure players from nowhere montana state that the raiders happen to pick in the second round. His analysis is mediocre, and I'm not entirely unsure if it's just fed to him from whatever "sources" or "contacts" he has in the NFL scouting world.

TexansSeminole
12-18-2013, 11:08 PM
Interesting that Kiper thinks Barr could go #1 based on schematic fit; it might not be the worst idea.

I like him more than Clowney overall. If we stick to the 3-4, I think Barr has the potential to be more productive.

Just where exactly is Clowney going to fit in the 3-4? Is Barr a better 3-4 player, even if you like Clowney more overall? I think Barr is better overall, but some who don't may come to the conclusion that Barr is more valuable than Clowney is in the 3-4.

bhsman
12-19-2013, 01:35 AM
I like him more than Clowney overall. If we stick to the 3-4, I think Barr has the potential to be more productive.

Just where exactly is Clowney going to fit in the 3-4? Is Barr a better 3-4 player, even if you like Clowney more overall? I think Barr is better overall, but some who don't may come to the conclusion that Barr is more valuable than Clowney is in the 3-4.

Barr, to me, is everything you want in an OLB: natural pass rushing ability, speed, and comfortable in coverage. I don't think we would be so hampered if we somehow ended up with him over Clowney (whom I would prefer). Clowney, on the other hand, is that rare combination of speed and power that isn't some workout warrior, either. Due to his size, he could start at OLB and perhaps transition to 3-4 DE along with Watt once he gained about 14 pounds. I'd really recommend looking at at Brett Kollmann's analysis of Clowney in the bone spur discussion thread.

TexansSeminole
12-19-2013, 06:11 AM
Barr, to me, is everything you want in an OLB: natural pass rushing ability, speed, and comfortable in coverage. I don't think we would be so hampered if we somehow ended up with him over Clowney (whom I would prefer). Clowney, on the other hand, is that rare combination of speed and power that isn't some workout warrior, either. Due to his size, he could start at OLB and perhaps transition to 3-4 DE along with Watt once he gained about 14 pounds. I'd really recommend looking at at Brett Kollmann's analysis of Clowney in the bone spur discussion thread.

I really don't like Clowney at 3-4 end. That's a position that requires constant grinding and effort throughout a game. You also have to be technically sound all game with your hands and you can't wear down. You can't get frustrated because you are constantly fighting two lineman or aren't having a huge impact on the game early on. These are all weaknesses of Clowney's game. I don't see him being as effective as Smith in that role and certainly not near as effective as Watt. I would honestly take Jernigan over Clowney if I was looking for a 3-4 end. But neither are worth the #1 pick in that role. Jernigan isn't worth the #1 in any role, although he is a good player.

At 3-4 OLB, I don't see him as a impact speed rusher. I think he could probably power rush and set the edge from that spot, but is that really worth the #1 pick? How much of an impact on the game will he have at that spot? Is it enough for the #1 pick and potentially a Mario sized contract later on? We already got rid of Mario, who is pretty much in the same mold.

I see him as a 4-3 end, similar to Mario or Pierre-Paul. If we go 4-3, Clowney is the better choice over Barr.

With Barr in a 3-4, you get exactly what you've described. He's quick off the edge and can really be difficult to handle. He's an ex-fullback and shows off his leverage when power rushing and in run defense. His zone coverage is adequate, he won't make many game changing plays there, but he's not going to be slow to the ball, actually quite the opposite. Regardless, he should be rushing most if not all the time. He also can move around some on stunts or free-roaming, much more so than Clowney. When you watch his tape he gets into the middle quickly on stunts and often goes unblocked because OL can't switch fast enough to contain his speed.

Barr also chases plays relentlessly. He'll chase a quick running back down from behind, especially when he doesn't start the play off positively. He's accustomed to playing that way, so you are most likely going to see the same habits when he gets to the NFL, which is always a plus.

I'm not trying to explain the guy as if you don't know him, just dumping my opinion on him here after I watched a bunch of his games on www.draftbreakdown.com. I love Barr, I think he is worth the #1 pick if we are sticking to the 3-4.

BullNation4Life
12-19-2013, 07:50 AM
I like him more than Clowney overall. If we stick to the 3-4, I think Barr has the potential to be more productive.

Just where exactly is Clowney going to fit in the 3-4? Is Barr a better 3-4 player, even if you like Clowney more overall? I think Barr is better overall, but some who don't may come to the conclusion that Barr is more valuable than Clowney is in the 3-4.

Not sure if you are referring to the Texans but the Texans may not be running a 3-4 when the new HC is hired, so Clowney would fit nicely in a 4-3 or a Tampa 2 defense as a pass rushing DE.

PapaL
12-19-2013, 08:33 AM
As porous as our 3-4 has been looking I don't see us sticking with it. Our MLBs are a pile of injuries and trash. Our OLBs couldn't rush across the street without falling. I would like us to go 4-3 and take Clowney. I think it, 4-3, would help protect Cushing.

If we do stay 3-4 then Barr is probably the better choice but we would need to find some more MLBs too.

TexansFTW
12-19-2013, 08:39 AM
I know this thread is about Kiper, but since we are talking about Barr...

Dude is awesome and I love his game. With that said, in 2011 we traded up in the 2nd to draft an OLB in Brooks Reed. That was a failure.

In 2012 we used our #1 pick on Mercilus, so far it's looked bad.

All in all, I don't want to become the Lions. A million holes and we keep using our high draft picks on 1 position while the other holes tear further and further apart.

No thank you. Has anyone seen Todd McShay's latest on ESPN insider? What a joke.

TexansSeminole
12-19-2013, 01:45 PM
I know this thread is about Kiper, but since we are talking about Barr...

Dude is awesome and I love his game. With that said, in 2011 we traded up in the 2nd to draft an OLB in Brooks Reed. That was a failure.

In 2012 we used our #1 pick on Mercilus, so far it's looked bad.

All in all, I don't want to become the Lions. A million holes and we keep using our high draft picks on 1 position while the other holes tear further and further apart.

No thank you. Has anyone seen Todd McShay's latest on ESPN insider? What a joke.

Well having a good quarterback, protecting the quarterback, and pressuring the opposing quarterback are the three most important things in football. It's not like we are taking receivers.

Texian
12-19-2013, 02:02 PM
I know this thread is about Kiper, but since we are talking about Barr...

Dude is awesome and I love his game. With that said, in 2011 we traded up in the 2nd to draft an OLB in Brooks Reed. That was a failure.

In 2012 we used our #1 pick on Mercilus, so far it's looked bad.

All in all, I don't want to become the Lions. A million holes and we keep using our high draft picks on 1 position while the other holes tear further and further apart.

No thank you. Has anyone seen Todd McShay's latest on ESPN insider? What a joke.

When all is said and done IMHO I think Jeremiah Attoachu will be a better NFL player than Barr.

TexansSeminole
12-19-2013, 02:08 PM
When all is said and done IMHO I think Jeremiah Attoachu will be a better NFL player than Barr.

I like Attoachu but not nearly that much.

TexansFTW
12-19-2013, 05:00 PM
When all is said and done IMHO I think Jeremiah Attoachu will be a better NFL player than Barr.

Very interesting. I don't follow G Tech well enough to comment. I'll read more about him. I see he's got a late 3rd round grade which would be great because that means we could use a compensatory pick on him (that I assume we get if Antonio Smith walks because we can't afford him after paying JJ Watt mega-$$).

Late 3rd now, doesn't really mean much with guys like that though, I am aware. Combine can jump and drop guys dramatically.

Thanks for the info, I will watch him more.

WolverineFan
12-19-2013, 05:37 PM
Very interesting. I don't follow G Tech well enough to comment. I'll read more about him. I see he's got a late 3rd round grade which would be great because that means we could use a compensatory pick on him (that I assume we get if Antonio Smith walks because we can't afford him after paying JJ Watt mega-$$).

Late 3rd now, doesn't really mean much with guys like that though, I am aware. Combine can jump and drop guys dramatically.

Thanks for the info, I will watch him more.

Antonio is an UFA this year. If we let him walk, any comp pick for him leaving would be in next year's draft, not this one.

As for Attaochu, I'm a fan. Needs to get stronger though and develop more of a pass rushing repertoire. He's pretty one dimensional right now. I like him as a 3-4 OLB but I think he could also play a pass rushing 4-3 OLB like Von Miller. I rate him a late 2nd-early 3rd.

Texian
12-19-2013, 06:31 PM
Antonio is an UFA this year. If we let him walk, any comp pick for him leaving would be in next year's draft, not this one.

As for Attaochu, I'm a fan. Needs to get stronger though and develop more of a pass rushing repertoire. He's pretty one dimensional right now. I like him as a 3-4 OLB but I think he could also play a pass rushing 4-3 OLB like Von Miller. I rate him a late 2nd-early 3rd.

Based on games I have watched of both players I'll say that Attoachu will test stronger than Barr. Attoachu IMHO has better success against the bigger better DE, Barr not so much. Barr success has come against the smaller les athletic TEs. I have in my mock DE Aaron Donald in rd2 as Ninja's replacement. What people don't know about Attoachu is GA Tech went to a 4-3 this tear and Jeremiah played DE w/ his hand in the dirt. He wasn't nearly as effective as he was at OLB last year. (Kinda of like DeMarcus Ware this year) The later part of the season they started moving him around and his numbers soared. If they had left him alone at OLB Attoachu might of had 18-20 sacks.

Sacks: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/36

Tackles for Loss: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/39

beerlover
12-19-2013, 08:15 PM
Based on games I have watched of both players I'll say that Attoachu will test stronger than Barr. Attoachu IMHO has better success against the bigger better DE, Barr not so much. Barr success has come against the smaller les athletic TEs. I have in my mock DE Aaron Donald in rd2 as Ninja's replacement. What people don't know about Attoachu is GA Tech went to a 4-3 this tear and Jeremiah played DE w/ his hand in the dirt. He wasn't nearly as effective as he was at OLB last year. (Kinda of like DeMarcus Ware this year) The later part of the season they started moving him around and his numbers soared. If they had left him alone at OLB Attoachu might of had 18-20 sacks.

Sacks: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/36

Tackles for Loss: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/39

didn't Whitney Mercilus have something like 26 sacks? there is a good possibility he is not being used properly just like your talking about with Attoachu......:thinking:

mussop
12-19-2013, 11:34 PM
didn't Whitney Mercilus have something like 26 sacks? there is a good possibility he is not being used properly just like your talking about with Attoachu......:thinking:

:fingergun: Me thinks yes!

Dutchrudder
12-20-2013, 11:53 AM
didn't Whitney Mercilus have something like 26 sacks? there is a good possibility he is not being used properly just like your talking about with Attoachu......:thinking:

He had 16 sacks in one season in a 4-3 system in a terrible Big 10. He was a one-hit wonder. I didn't like the pick much when we got him, but he might just be utilized wrong. It's hard to tell with the current coaching staff. Every player seems to have regressed this year, except for Andre and JJ. I think a lot of it has to do with team morale.

NastyNate
12-24-2013, 05:02 PM
I really don't like Clowney at 3-4 end. That's a position that requires constant grinding and effort throughout a game. You also have to be technically sound all game with your hands and you can't wear down. You can't get frustrated because you are constantly fighting two lineman or aren't having a huge impact on the game early on. These are all weaknesses of Clowney's game. I don't see him being as effective as Smith in that role and certainly not near as effective as Watt. I would honestly take Jernigan over Clowney if I was looking for a 3-4 end. But neither are worth the #1 pick in that role. Jernigan isn't worth the #1 in any role, although he is a good player.

At 3-4 OLB, I don't see him as a impact speed rusher. I think he could probably power rush and set the edge from that spot, but is that really worth the #1 pick? How much of an impact on the game will he have at that spot? Is it enough for the #1 pick and potentially a Mario sized contract later on? We already got rid of Mario, who is pretty much in the same mold.

I see him as a 4-3 end, similar to Mario or Pierre-Paul. If we go 4-3, Clowney is the better choice over Barr.

With Barr in a 3-4, you get exactly what you've described. He's quick off the edge and can really be difficult to handle. He's an ex-fullback and shows off his leverage when power rushing and in run defense. His zone coverage is adequate, he won't make many game changing plays there, but he's not going to be slow to the ball, actually quite the opposite. Regardless, he should be rushing most if not all the time. He also can move around some on stunts or free-roaming, much more so than Clowney. When you watch his tape he gets into the middle quickly on stunts and often goes unblocked because OL can't switch fast enough to contain his speed.

Barr also chases plays relentlessly. He'll chase a quick running back down from behind, especially when he doesn't start the play off positively. He's accustomed to playing that way, so you are most likely going to see the same habits when he gets to the NFL, which is always a plus.

I'm not trying to explain the guy as if you don't know him, just dumping my opinion on him here after I watched a bunch of his games on www.draftbreakdown.com. I love Barr, I think he is worth the #1 pick if we are sticking to the 3-4.


While I think Barr can be an above average pass rusher, I still don't see how people feel he is better than Mack. Just watch the difference between the two on film. Mack rarely gets tied up by blockers, his hand movement and balance are just so smooth it's a pleasure to watch him school guys like Antonio Richardson from Tennessee. He is the only defensive threat at Buffalo and he still maneuvers through double teams with ease. FF and TFL NCAA record holder for a reason.

steelbtexan
12-24-2013, 06:02 PM
He had 16 sacks in one season in a 4-3 system in a terrible Big 10. He was a one-hit wonder. I didn't like the pick much when we got him, but he might just be utilized wrong. It's hard to tell with the current coaching staff. Every player seems to have regressed this year, except for Andre and JJ. I think a lot of it has to do with team morale.

You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.

beerlover
12-24-2013, 06:58 PM
You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.

you almost sold me. better chance of happening if a defensive coach is hired.

However. I/we cannot go forward without a franchise QB. If Texans trade down, again & again while picks have higher value, maximizing multiple possibilities & Rick Smith rebuilds roster along with image in one draft Clowney or Bridgewater would not be a part of it but help propel it because others feel they will be great NFL players & worth giving up picks. Merry Christmas SB :barman:

steelbtexan
12-24-2013, 11:27 PM
you almost sold me. better chance of happening if a defensive coach is hired.

However. I/we cannot go forward without a franchise QB. If Texans trade down, again & again while picks have higher value, maximizing multiple possibilities & Rick Smith rebuilds roster along with image in one draft Clowney or Bridgewater would not be a part of it but help propel it because others feel they will be great NFL players & worth giving up picks. Merry Christmas SB :barman:

Merry Christmas

If there were a franchise QB in this draft then I would be all in on drafting a QB.

I'm in the trade down camp also if they can remain in the top 5-7. In any trade I want a 2015 1st.

mussop
12-24-2013, 11:31 PM
You want to see Mercilus become a pass rushing force?

Draft Clowney, draft Carrethers in the 4th and you've got a 3rd down pass rushing group of

Clowney/Watt/Carrethers or Mitchell/Mericulus.

With defenses having to double/triple team Watt and Clowney there will be many opportunities for Mercilus/Carrethers/Mitchell to feast on OL's.

I have been leaning this way lately. Seems like there is a great opportunity to build a dominating defense in this draft. I would love to see what What Watt and the defense would look like with another dominating player on the Dline.

beerlover
12-25-2013, 06:42 AM
Merry Christmas

If there were a franchise QB in this draft then I would be all in on drafting a QB.

I'm in the trade down camp also if they can remain in the top 5-7. In any trade I want a 2015 1st.

Until proven otherwise, I will maintain at least two out of the top three (Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel) & a third (dark horse now) franchise QB's in this draft at minimum but do you really want to take that chance?. Odds are against all three top prospects panning out depending on situation or unforeseen factors.

Lets just look @ Texan position. Manziel stands best chance of making instant impact because of his mobility, pocket presence, ability to extend plays & shoulder media/on field pressure. My reservation about him is not so much immaturity off the field as will be his durability. He will have to be smarter & avoid contact much as possible, know he will get tagged & miss some time. Keenum would make a great tandem back-up the offense will not deviate a whole lot long as Texans have a more healthy back-field. This would allow Texans to trade down.

Bortles will struggle if Texans don't fix offensive line & running game. Strongest arm of group with ability to throw long ball, good pocket presence but more a pocket QB. Would be a good fit if Texans change to power scheme, ball control offense like Pittsburgh or Baltimore. Looks like a bell cow franchise QB, size, arm, leadership ability.

Bridgewater would be exceptional spread offense QB like Chip Kelly runs in Philadelphia or Art Briles runs @ Baylor (is he a head coaching option for Texans?). Teddy could also fit in Pro-Style set which trumps the group because of his diversity to play in different packages. He is my clear consensus #1 overall pick but if Texans get a great trade offer & new coach has someone else in mind who he could plug in & play they you might get your wish :cool:

It is Christmas after all :worldpeace:

thunderkyss
01-08-2014, 07:49 PM
Anyone with insider access? I'd like to know where Bridgewater slid to & why. Without access, all we get is this.

In terms of movement this week, Teddy Bridgewater slides a little bit as I got to go through some more Louisville tape


Jadaveon Clowney
Anthony Barr
Jake Matthews

Playoffs
01-08-2014, 08:10 PM
http://cdn.nextimpulsesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/frank-caliendo-mel-kiper-jr-impression-e1366994374381.png

Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd...

thunderkyss
01-08-2014, 08:54 PM
So... I activated my "insider (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10155427/2014-nfl-draft-teddy-bridgewater-drops-again-greg-robinson-rises-big-board)" account & found why Kiper dropped Bridgewater in his top 25.

10 Teddy BridgewaterIn terms of movement this week, Teddy Bridgewater slides a little bit as I got to go through some more Louisville tapeHe drops a little on my board this week after more time to review, but he's still almost certain to go in the top-five range if he comes out. Bridgewater is poised and smart and is the guy most regularly making NFL throws with timing and anticipation in this class. He has a good blend of arm strength to drive the ball into tight windows and the sense of when to take some heat off the ball. He's very catchable. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, plenty of arm strength and good ball placement.

Well, he doesn't give a reason for letting him slide. I find it interesting that even though he is the tenth best player in the draft, Kiper feels Bridgewater will most likely go in the top 5.

14 Johnny ManzielBased on talk he would enter the draft, I did a full breakdown on Manziel. Take a look at that. He sees the whole field, has tremendous touch and would deliver strikes with more velocity if he kept his feet underneath him consistently. Height will always be a question, but he has proved it won't stop him.

He's got Hundley at 17, but we know Hundley stated he was going back to college. No other QB in his top 25 players.

TexansFTW
01-09-2014, 09:37 AM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103344

LOL!! I don't think Thunder followed your link by his comment after this.

*For those too lazy to click the hyperlink, it goes to page 1 of this VERY thread... we are currently on page 2*

BullNation4Life
01-09-2014, 10:01 AM
Mel Keiper...

You mean THIS Mel Keiper?

start at :50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubYpplmzVk

The one that said JaMarcus Russell, in 2-3 years, would be in the Top 5 Elite QBs in the NFL?

The Mel Keiper that said Russell's skill level was "John Elway like!"

That Mel Keiper? I wouldn't take Mel Keiper's word if he told me the End of the World was here...

thunderkyss
01-09-2014, 12:01 PM
LOL!! I don't think Thunder followed your link by his comment after this.

*For those too lazy to click the hyperlink, it goes to page 1 of this VERY thread... we are currently on page 2*

If you must know, I replied to the link he posted. The mods must have merged the threads. There was 2 weeks between my most recent post in this thread & the last post in the original.

mussop
01-09-2014, 12:15 PM
Mel Keiper...

You mean THIS Mel Keiper?

start at :50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubYpplmzVk

The one that said JaMarcus Russell, in 2-3 years, would be in the Top 5 Elite QBs in the NFL?

The Mel Keiper that said Russell's skill level was "John Elway like!"

That Mel Keiper? I wouldn't take Mel Keiper's word if he told me the End of the World was here...

Show me one person who has never made a poor judgment on a prospect. It happens,,,,,, a lot!

The Pencil Neck
01-09-2014, 12:26 PM
Show me one person who has never made a poor judgment on a prospect. It happens,,,,,, a lot!

Also, the same guy who guaranteed that neither Carr nor Harrington would be busts at QB.

bah007
01-09-2014, 12:28 PM
Meh, if you don't like Kiper's opinions that's fine. But they aren't really his opinions. Kiper doesn't know a power play from an iso. He's a mouthpiece with good connections.

Playoffs
01-09-2014, 12:35 PM
If you must know, I replied to the link he posted. The mods must have merged the threads. There was 2 weeks between my most recent post in this thread & the last post in the original.

Sorry you ponied up for it... not much there, imo, but it does spur conversation here while we watch the good teams play on.

BullNation4Life
01-09-2014, 01:16 PM
Show me one person who has never made a poor judgment on a prospect. It happens,,,,,, a lot!

But that is HIS job, that is ALL he does is research, evaluate and collect data on college draftees. Doesn't matter what someone else does, this is his job.

You would think someone who does this 24/7 365 would have know by doing his research that Jamarcus Russell was a fat, lazy SOB, that was now where NEAR John Elways skill set, 1 great game and should have NEVER been the #1 draft pick...

Keiper could tell me my hair is on fire, I still would not believe anything he has to say...

Texian
01-09-2014, 01:33 PM
But that is HIS job, that is ALL he does is research, evaluate and collect data on college draftees. Doesn't matter what someone else does, this is his job.

You would think someone who does this 24/7 365 would have know by doing his research that Jamarcus Russell was a fat, lazy SOB, that was now where NEAR John Elways skill set, 1 great game and should have NEVER been the #1 draft pick...

Keiper could tell me my hair is on fire, I still would not believe anything he has to say...

It used to be his job. He started out in his parents garage and grew it from there. Today his job is a ESPN analyst, that means Kiper spends most of his time in production meetings, on air preparation and doing numerous on air segments throughout the day. Kiper does not have the time to dedicate to full time college players evaluations and draft preparations. He leaves most of that to the ESPN research staff.

noxiousdog
01-09-2014, 01:41 PM
Kiper was also huge on Matt Leinart and Mike Williams.

Dutchrudder
01-09-2014, 04:26 PM
Kiper was also huge on Matt Leinart and Mike Williams.

I think Leinart was a bust due to lack of effort more than anything else. The stuff I heard about him from a friend in Phoenix was pretty entertaining. He was a party-boy 8 days a week.

drs23
01-09-2014, 04:38 PM
Show me one person who has never made a poor judgment on a prospect. It happens,,,,,, a lot!

I agree with BullNation. It sure seems to happen to Kiper a lot MORE! So much that if he says it's night I'll be wearin' my :shades:.

ArlingtonTexan
01-09-2014, 05:38 PM
The huddlereport on mock draft accuracy... over the last handful of years

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/scoring/mockdrafts.shtml

Playoffs
01-09-2014, 06:23 PM
The huddlereport on mock draft accuracy... over the last handful of years

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/scoring/mockdrafts.shtml

Where's Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd McShay ranked???

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/WJwpdZ9myg4/maxresdefault.jpg

The Pencil Neck
01-09-2014, 06:44 PM
Where's Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd McShay ranked???

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/WJwpdZ9myg4/maxresdefault.jpg

Not even on the list.

Surprised to see LZ so high and Gil Brandt so low.

eriadoc
01-09-2014, 06:52 PM
The huddlereport on mock draft accuracy... over the last handful of years

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/scoring/mockdrafts.shtml

Bottom 5:

5 (tied): Bucky Brooks and Mark Dulgerian
4: Jason McIntyre
3: Anthony Macari
2: John Clemens
1 (worst): Steve Bischoff

Guess we can take their professional opinions for what they're worth.

Playoffs
01-11-2014, 12:59 PM
Big Board
01/08/14
1jadeveon clowney *age: 20dob: 2/14/93ht: 6-6wt: 265pos: De
tkl 41sack 3.0int 0
not a lock for one of the top two or three spots, but still the top prospect. Need will factor in. Clowney has the quickness to beat people at the point of attack, the power to run through blockers and the speed to pursue all over. He's not just an edge rusher looking to quickly turn the corner; he doesn't even bend that well. He beats average tackles both inside and outside with his first step.

2anthony barrage: 21dob: 3/18/92ht: 6-4wt: 244pos: Olb
tkl 66sack 10.0int 0
could be the pass-rusher taken ahead of clowney based on scheme. A disruptive force even with added attention, barr became a more complete player this season. He's a good pass-rusher, using quick feet and hands to free himself, and he's disciplined. I love his pursuit when the play runs away from him. A former fullback, he has a powerful lower half and a long frame and reach.

3jake matthewsage: 21dob: 2/11/92ht: 6-5wt: 305pos: Ot
gp 13gs 13

4greg robinson **age: 21dob: 10/21/92ht: 6-5wt: 320pos: Ot
gp 14gs 14
now declared, he has a chance to be the first left tackle taken. Brought in as a guard, robinson started at left tackle in the sec as a redshirt freshman and held his own. This year, he was dominant, with increased strength making him closer to that complete package at tackle. He moves really well, can get out in the run game and block in space (as you saw in the bcs title game), but does so with a powerful lower half that makes him tough to push backward, too; he has long arms and delivers a solid punch. He gets a good push in the run game and can get out in front. Could become a special player at tackle.

5khalil mackage: 22dob: 2/22/91ht: 6-3wt: 248pos: Olb
tkl 100sack 11.0int 3
the senior bowl will be big for mack, who really only gets knocked on competition level. But i've said before you really have to watch him play and see how he lines up all over the field and can do everything. He is versatile and capable of rushing the passer with quickness and power, dropping into coverage, shedding tackles and making plays in the open field. He uses proper leverage to take on blocks and drive people back and uses quickness and strong hands to shed. Plays with a great motor, but smart.

6sammy watkins *age: 20dob: 6/14/93ht: 6-1wt: 205pos: Wr
rec 101yds 1,464avg 14.5td 12

7eric ebron *age: 20dob: 4/10/93ht: 6-4wt: 245pos: Te
rec 62yds 973avg 15.7td 3
a likely bet to be the first tight end taken, with the skills to put him into the range more typical of the first wide receiver taken. He has the length and flexibility to haul in anything you throw his way, can be split out and can make plays after the catch. Has the size to overwhelm cornerbacks and most safeties, good burst and above-average straight-line speed. He can go up and get the ball and does a good job of catching it with his hands away from his body. Great body control allows him to haul in errant throws. A qb's best friend.

8teddy bridgewater *age: 21dob: 11/10/92ht: 6-3wt: 218pos: Qb
comp 303att 427pct 71.0yds 3,970td 31int 4
demand dictates he made a smart decision to enter the draft. Bridgewater is poised and smart and is the qb most regularly making nfl throws with timing and anticipation in this class, throwing not just to players, but to spots. He has a good blend of arm strength to drive the ball into tight windows and the sense of when to take some heat off the ball. He throws a very catchable ball. He moves his eyes quickly and often scans the whole field. When he sees a target, he has a quick release, enough velocity and good ball placement.

9blake bortles *age: 22dob: 12/16/91ht: 6-4wt: 230pos: Qb
comp 259att 382pct 64.5yds 3,581td 25int 9
bortles offers a good blend of the size traditionalists want at the qb position and the athleticism that is now more coveted as nfl offenses often look to put the quarterback's feet to good use. He has sound mechanics, though almost rigidly so, and shows poise and good footwork in the pocket. He has above-average arm strength based on my reviews, can drive the ball pretty well on intermediate throws, and while he's generally accurate, he can be inconsistent with his ball placement and ask a lot of his wide receivers, an area where bridgewater has been better so far. The ucf offense also turned a lot of short throws into huge plays, inflating passing totals a bit.

Previous ranking: Nr

10timmy jernigan *age: 21dob: 9/24/92ht: 6-2wt: 298pos: Dt
tkl 53sack 5.0int 0

11taylor lewanage: 22dob: 7/21/91ht: 6-8wt: 308pos: Ot
gp 13gs 13

12johnny manziel **age: 21dob: 12/6/92ht: 6-0wt: 206pos: Qb
comp 300att 429pct 69.9yds 4,114td 37int 14
highly competitive, manziel is known as an improviser, but is also an effective pocket passer and sees the field well from there. He doesn't have a special arm, but can make special throws because he has tremendous touch and the ability to deliver off-balance. He would deliver strikes with more velocity if he kept his feet underneath him consistently. Height will always be a question because it does offer its advantages, but manziel has proven it won't hurt him much. The final question: How well does he interview and deal with the scrutiny and bright lights of the draft process?

13c.j. Mosleyage: 21dob: 6/19/92ht: 6-2wt: 232pos: Lb
tkl 106sack 0int 0

14marqise lee *age: 22dob: 11/25/91ht: 6-1wt: 195pos: Wr
rec 57yds 791avg 13.9td 4

15mike evans **age: 20dob: 8/21/93ht: 6-4wt: 220pos: Wr
rec 69yds 1,394avg 20.2td 12
somewhat reminiscent of alshon jeffery in that he creates value in his ability to make contested catches, using his reach, jumping ability and long frame to beat shorter defenders, but is forced to make that kind of catch because he can't run away from defenders, or create much separation with quickness. Evans could be used on the edge or in the slot to create matchup problems and should make for a very good possession target. I'm sure he'll be working on speed and quickness in draft prep.

Previous rank: No. Nr | player card

16justin gilbert age: 22dob: 11/7/91ht: 6-0wt: 200pos: Cb
tkl 42sack 0int 7

17stephon tuitt *age: 20dob: 5/23/93ht: 6-6wt: 315pos: De
tkl 49sack 7.5int 1
tuitt could shine during the draft process given his combination of elite quickness and great size; i've compared him to a young richard seymour. He offers tremendous burst and power and the ability to work inside or outside and create pressure. Teams looking for a penetrating 3-4 de will like his potential, but when healthy, he can also provide a pass rush as a 4-3 de, which is saying something for someone playing at about 320 pounds.

Previous rank: No. 8

18carlos hyde age: 22dob: 9/20/91ht: 6-0wt: 242pos: Rb
att 208yds 1,521avg 7.3td 15

19darqueze dennard age: 22dob: 10/10/91ht: 5-11wt: 197pos: Cb
tkl 62sack 0int 4

20kony ealy * age: 22dob: 12/21/91ht: 6-5wt: 274pos: De
tkl 42sack 8.0int 1
while ealy doesn't jump off the screen with quickness, he's a very good athlete for a 4-3 defensive end, and can close quickly, covering a lot of ground in just a few strides. He also has good length and will hold his rush to eye the passer and get his hands into passing lanes. Ealy also has the ability to move inside where he can get in gaps and provide an interior pass rush, mostly with quickness. While i think he lacks the size to be a true 3-technique, his frame could support more if he wants to muscle up, and i think coaches in any system will consider him a possibility. He just needs to get off blocks better, because his ability to shed doesn't match up to his level of athleticism.

21ryan shazier *age: 21dob: 9/6/92ht: 6-2wt: 225pos: Olb
tkl 142sack 6.0int 0
versatile, quick, instinctive and a strong tackler, shazier lacks size, but the nfl demands that linebackers can really run, too. He anticipates, plays sideline to sideline and will track tight ends and running backs in coverage with the burst and agility to stay with them. In the mold of a lavonte david, shazier is a linebacker who looks like an oversized safety but does a great job of tracking and making tackles.

22vic beasley *age: 21dob: 7/8/92ht: 6-3wt: 235pos: Lb
tkl 40sack 13.0int 0

23cyrus kouandjio *age: 20dob: 7/21/93ht: 6-6wt: 311pos: Ot
gp 13gs 13

24louis nix iii *age: 22dob: 7/31/91ht: 6-3wt: 326pos: Dt
tkl 27sack 0int 0
a rare commodity, at his best he has the rare size and strength to handle a zero-technique role, keeping multiple blockers occupied and eating up two gaps while making life easy for linebackers cleaning up against the run. But he's not limited to that because he can really move, at least a lot better than you would expect from a player his size. Nix is occasionally moved too easily and loses gap control.

25ha ha clinton-dix *age: 20dob: 12/21/92ht: 6-1wt: 208pos: S

Playoffs
01-15-2014, 12:01 PM
1/15 Big Board

1 Jadeveon Clowney AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE

2 Anthony Barr AGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB

3 Jake Matthews AGE: 21DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT

4 Greg Robinson AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT

5 Khalil Mack AGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB

6 Sammy Watkins AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR

7 Eric Ebron AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE

8 Taylor Lewan AGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT

9 Teddy Bridgewater AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB

10 Blake Bortles AGE: 22DOB: 12/16/91HT: 6-4WT: 230POS: QB

11 Johnny Manziel AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-1WT: 206POS: QB

12 Timmy Jernigan AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT

13 C.J. Mosley AGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB

14 Marqise Lee AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-0WT: 195POS: WR

15 Mike Evans AGE: 20DOB: 8/21/93HT: 6-5WT: 220POS: WR

16 Justin Gilbert AGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 200POS: CB

17 Carlos Hyde AGE: 22DOB: 9/20/91HT: 6-0WT: 242POS: RB

18 Darqueze Dennard AGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 197POS: CB

19 Ryan Shazier AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB

20 Stephon Tuitt AGE: 20DOB: 5/23/93HT: 6-7WT: 315POS: DE

21 Cyrus Kouandjio AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT

22 Louis Nix III AGE: 22DOB: 7/31/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT

23 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix AGE: 21DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S

24 Jace Amaro AGE: 21DOB: 6/26/92HT: 6-5WT: 255POS: TE

25 Calvin Pryor AGE: 21DOB: 7/2/92HT: 6-2WT: 208POS: S

TexansFTW
01-15-2014, 02:45 PM
If that is his "big board" why was his mock today so out of wack with this? He had the 2nd best QB taken over the 1st. The best taken 3rd. The 2nd best OLB taken over the 1st, etc.

I don't have insider, but I saw his top 10 on my buddies computer

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10283026/2014-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-unveils-first-mock-draft

Playoffs
01-15-2014, 02:57 PM
If that is his "big board" why was his mock today so out of wack with this?..."League sources"... "team needs"... "what I'm hearing"... yada, yada. It's "lie to Kiper" season.

KiMock is here: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103788

thunderkyss
01-15-2014, 04:49 PM
If that is his "big board" why was his mock today so out of wack with this? He had the 2nd best QB taken over the 1st. The best taken 3rd. The 2nd best OLB taken over the 1st, etc.

I don't have insider, but I saw his top 10 on my buddies computer

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10283026/2014-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-unveils-first-mock-draft

I hope there isn't going to be a whole lot of this. I like J.Football...... hate to have to start tearing holes into the idea of selecting him #1 overall.

& for Kiper to say the things he said about him, without actually ever sitting down & talking to this kid, or Sumlin... pssh.

1Johnny Manziel *Houston Texans (2-14)
COLLEGE: Texas A&MAGE: 21HT: 6-0WT: 205POS: QB

Analysis: I spoke to a number of high-ranking NFL evaluators this week, and this is the one QB anyone felt certain was a top-5 pick. So consider this an early bet, with one major caveat: Bill O'Brien just arrived, is still putting his staff together, knows a good QB when he sees one, and hasn't had enough time (if any) to study the draft class. But we know quarterback is a major need here. O'Brien likes a QB with presence, a leader and a guy who will out-prepare the competition. And while Manziel has gotten his share of bad press, he's a dynamic talent, and I feel he can lead at the next level; I'm not alone in that opinion. While Manziel is currently ranked No. 11 on my Big Board, this reflects the draft.

Manziel doesn't fit the old prototypes of a QB drafted No. 1, and I have concerns about how well he can protect himself given his smaller frame, but he is a magician on the field, and is made for the current NFL. This league protects and welcomes QBs who can improvise, run and make plays beyond the playbook. It's early, but Manziel is a special player and has the draft process to prove it further.

& there's no way he's "basically" the same size as Brees.

Another thing... has the #1 & 2 player ever came from the same school?
2Jake MatthewsSt. Louis Rams (7-9) (From WAS)
COLLEGE: Texas A&MAGE: 21HT: 6-5WT: 309POS: OT

Analysis: Rams general manager Les Snead has already said that he'll take calls on this draft slot, which makes plenty of sense given the fact that the three teams drafting directly after St. Louis need a quarterback. So if you want a certain QB, you might be trying to work out a deal with the Rams to assure you get him. That said, I can't project a trade, and Matthews would be a tremendous fit for the Rams, who need to bring in an upgrade at left tackle this offseason given the uncertainty regarding Jake Long's health. Matthews has proved capable of dominating on both the left and right side, in fact, and comes with more assurances in that regard than the tackles drafted at the top of the board last season. At tackle, I also think Greg Robinson could compete with Matthews to be the first one taken, and I don't think it's out of the question that St. Louis takes a QB or top defensive lineman.

mussop
01-16-2014, 08:06 AM
I hope there isn't going to be a whole lot of this. I like J.Football...... hate to have to start tearing holes into the idea of selecting him #1 overall.

& for Kiper to say the things he said about him, without actually ever sitting down & talking to this kid, or Sumlin... pssh.



& there's no way he's "basically" the same size as Brees.

Another thing... has the #1 & 2 player ever came from the same school?


Tear into it. When Johnny Football takes us to the Super Bowl, you'll be standing in line with all the other haters just waiting on a chance to sniff his jock. :overreact: :fingergun:

How big (or small) do you think he really is?

It's been said JFF has a great football mind. He never has to be told anything twice. I'm sure this topic will be covered soon.

disaacks3
01-16-2014, 09:27 AM
The huddlereport on mock draft accuracy... over the last handful of years

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/scoring/mockdrafts.shtml Once LZ gets 5 years in, he'll be near the top.

I still want an accuracy report that equates actual post-draft talent to where the players were projected / drafted.


& there's no way he's "basically" the same size as Brees.


+/- 1 inch
+/- 5 lbs
sounds pretty damn close to me

Blake
01-16-2014, 10:21 AM
Another thing... has the #1 & 2 player ever came from the same school?

Not sure. But I always thought it was interesting that in 2010, 3 of the first 4 picks were Sooners.

TexansFTW
01-16-2014, 12:47 PM
Another thing... has the #1 & 2 player ever came from the same school?


Good question. I tried Googling this, but came up with nothing. Maybe a better Googler or someone that remembers can answer, cause I'm interested.

The Sooners thing is nuts, I completely forgot about that.

Playoffs
01-16-2014, 01:11 PM
...Another thing, has the #1 & #2 player ever came from the same school?
Three time that I see...

2000 1 1 Courtney Brown DE CLE Penn St.
2000 1 2 LaVar Arrington LB WAS Penn St.

1984 1 1 Irving Fryar WR NWE Nebraska
1984 1 2 Dean Steinkuhler T HOU Nebraska

1967 1 1 Bubba Smith DE BAL Michigan St.
1967 1 2 Clint Jones RB MIN Michigan St.


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2013&type=&round_min=1&round_max=1&slot_min=1&slot_max=2&league_id=&team_id=&pos=ALL&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all

Playoffs
01-23-2014, 11:41 AM
Adding this here since he's ESPN (w/Kiper) instead of creating yet another thread...

Louis Riddick ‏@LRiddickESPN

That being said, what I expected to see from A. Barr has not met the reality of what I have seen over the past 24hours of watching him.

Draft valuation is about defining a player's short/long term developmental potential & role, and setting a minimum level of expectations.

....and it wasn't even close. He wanted NO part of that physical style of play. Need to watch A LOT more...

Considering level of comp when evaluating OL/DL/Pass Rushers is critical. Anthony Barr was physically dominated by A. Peat vs Stanford.

Playoffs
01-29-2014, 12:40 PM
Top 25

1Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE

2Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB

3Jake MatthewsAGE: 21DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT

4Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT

5Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB

6Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR

7Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE

8Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT

9Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB

10Blake Bortles *AGE: 22DOB: 12/16/91HT: 6-4WT: 230POS: QB

11Johnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-1WT: 206POS: QB

12Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT

13C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB

14Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-0WT: 195POS: WR

15Mike Evans **AGE: 20DOB: 8/21/93HT: 6-5WT: 220POS: WR

16Justin GilbertAGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 200POS: CB

17Zack MartinAGE: 23DOB: 11/20/90HT: 6-4WT: 308POS: OT

18Darqueze DennardAGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 197POS: CB

19Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB

20Stephon Tuitt *AGE: 20DOB: 5/23/93HT: 6-7WT: 315POS: DE

21Cyrus Kouandjio *AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT

22Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/31/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT

23Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 21DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S

24Calvin Pryor *AGE: 21DOB: 7/2/92HT: 6-2WT: 208POS: S

25Jace Amaro *AGE: 21DOB: 6/26/92HT: 6-5WT: 255POS: TE

Playoffs
02-04-2014, 02:13 PM
Mel Kiper Jr. ‏@MelKiperESPN
Can 'translate' to anything. Coaches adjust to great talent -- don't overthink system fit. RT @dPete29 Could Clowney translate to a 3-4?

Lastly: Taylor Lewan has been on my Big Board forever, and he's getting a lot of positive reviews as teams dig in. Solid stock.

Could go in Round 1. RT @KobrockE What are your thoughts on Landry from LSU. With a class this deep, should he have stayed at LSU?

If you count tight ends (Ebron, Amaro, Niklas come to mind), wouldn't be at all surprised by 10+ pass-catches drafted in Round 1.

Don't assume Clinton-Dix of Bama is a lock to be the top safety taken. Calvin Pryor is ahead for some teams. Really close for me.

A few nuggets: I count 12 wide receivers that could have a 1st Round grade on them if you combined team boards. It's early, but deep class.

Playoffs
02-06-2014, 10:36 AM
2/6
1Johnny Manziel *Houston Texans (2-14)
COLLEGE: Texas A&MAGE: 21HT: 6-0WT: 205POS: QB

Analysis: My internal debate here was Mr. Football or Mr. Clowney. Thing is, I don't think that's too much different than the scenario going on with Houston right now -- just add a few players to the mix. In Manziel, you get a quarterback who in my opinion is ready to play NFL football and make plays, and is preparing with the goal of helping a team right away. In Jadeveon Clowney, you get the most talented player in the draft, a defensive force to pair somewhere along the line with J.J. Watt and create major problems for opposing offenses. Right now I'll stick with the early bet on Manziel, and the idea that coach Bill O'Brien becomes convinced this is his QB of the future.

2Greg Robinson *St. Louis Rams (7-9) (From WAS)
COLLEGE: AuburnAGE: 21HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT

3Jadeveon Clowney *Jacksonville Jaguars (4-12)
COLLEGE: South CarolinaAGE: 20HT: 6-5WT: 274POS: DE

Analysis: The owner in Jacksonville has made it pretty clear that the search for a quarterback is on, and the draft is a place they'll be looking. While I think they'd be a good fit for Manziel, in this scenario he's not around, and they instead go with the top pass-rusher in the draft. Make no mistake, QB is a huge need, but the Jags have been looking to improve the pass rush for years. If they love one of the other QB possibilities, that could certainly be the pick, but if the board breaks this way, I think Clowney proves irresistible.

4Teddy Bridgewater *Cleveland Browns (4-12)
COLLEGE: LouisvilleAGE: 22HT: 6-2WT: 220POS: QB

Analysis: I think it's fair to say that for the first time in a while, the Browns have the talent in place to really help a young quarterback succeed. The presence of Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron and the results those two were able to put up last season with pretty mixed levels of QB play should give the Browns' front office a reasonable level of confidence that a good decision-maker with a high level of accuracy has a chance to succeed early. And while Bridgewater still has areas where he needs to show growth, particularly in proving he can drive the ball down the field with accuracy on a consistent level, I think he also has a lot of traits that translate to early success. He reads defenses well before and after the snap, moves extremely well within the pocket, and delivers the ball on time, allowing pass-catchers to make plays. If Manziel is available here, he could certainly be the pick, but Bridgewater is no consolation prize on my board.

5Sammy Watkins *Oakland Raiders (4-12)
COLLEGE: ClemsonAGE: 20HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR

6Anthony BarrAtlanta Falcons (4-12)
COLLEGE: UCLAAGE: 21HT: 6-4WT: 248POS: OLB/DE

7Khalil MackTampa Bay Buccaneers (4-12)
COLLEGE: BuffaloAGE: 22HT: 6-3WT: 245POS: OLB

Analysis: I'm sticking with this pick from the previous mock, as Mack gives the Bucs a much-needed edge rusher with three-down capabilities because of his great leverage against the run and ability to drop into space and both cover and tackle. I expect big things from Mack at the combine. He'll face questions on his competition level, but I'm confident he'll prove he's as good an athlete as almost any defensive player in the draft.

8Blake Bortles *Minnesota Vikings (5-10-1)
COLLEGE: UCFAGE: 21HT: 6-4WT: 230POS: QB

Analysis: The Vikings lack any sense of certainty at the QB position. While I think Bortles will have a bit of a learning curve because he needs to gain much greater consistency with his ball placement, he has tremendous physical upside, with a big frame that can really move, which will provide an added dimension to help the offense move the ball as the passing aspect steadily improves. Can Bortles start right away for a team that wants to take a step forward? i think that's a question for the process.

9Jake MatthewsBuffalo Bills (6-10)
COLLEGE: Texas A&MAGE: 22HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT

10Justin GilbertDetroit Lions (7-9)
COLLEGE: Oklahoma St.AGE: 22HT: 6-0WT: 200POS: CB

Analysis: Gilbert has some competition to be the first corner taken, but I expect him to put up some pretty impressive numbers at the combine. He should prove to be a pretty big draw in a league where big corners who can battle at the catch point but also have elite speed and quickness are coveted. Detroit should get some development at corner on the current roster, but also could face some turnover. They need to place a bet on another young corner or two.

11Taylor LewanTennessee Titans (7-9)
COLLEGE: MichiganAGE: 22HT: 6-7WT: 315POS: OT

Analysis: This is another pick I'm sticking with, as the Titans have some decisions to make at tackle both this offseason and next with current personnel, and Lewan could come in and provide immediate help, as well as a bridge to life after Michael Roos at left tackle. Lewan plays with a solid base and is particularly good as a run-blocker, but has the combination of power, length and good feet to handle both speed and power rushers. Going back to his junior season, he handled Jadeveon Clowney pretty well.

12C.J. MosleyNew York Giants (7-9)
COLLEGE: AlabamaAGE: 21HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB

Analysis: I await the inevitable critique that the Giants never take linebackers in the first round, but I'll stick with this pick. (I know the people who authored that philosophy, so consider me unafraid to be wrong here.) I just think Mosley is as close to a plug-and-perform linebacker as you can have in this draft because of his range and special ability to cover. The guy would really help against the offenses the G-Men see in the NFC East. The Giants were helped by the presence of Jon Beason last season, but this unit is a major question mark going forward, and they could use an impact talent, not just a Band-Aid.

13Mike Evans *St. Louis Rams (7-9)
COLLEGE: Texas A&MAGE: 21HT: 6-5WT: 225POS: WR

14Timmy Jernigan *Chicago Bears (8-8)
COLLEGE: Florida St.AGE: 21HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT

15Louis Nix III Pittsburgh Steelers (8-8)
COLLEGE: Notre DameAGE: 22HT: 6-3WT: 345POS: DT

16Eric Ebron *Baltimore Ravens (8-8)^
COLLEGE: North CarolinaAGE: 20HT: 6-4WT: 231POS: TE

17Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *Dallas Cowboys (8-8)^
COLLEGE: AlabamaAGE: 21HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S

18Marqise Lee *New York Jets (8-8)
COLLEGE: USCAGE: 22HT: 6-1WT: 198POS: WR

19Zack MartinMiami Dolphins (8-8)
COLLEGE: Notre DameAGE: 23HT: 6-4WT: 308POS: OT

20Cyrus Kouandjio *Arizona Cardinals (10-6)
COLLEGE: AlabamaAGE: 20HT: 6-6WT: 315POS: OT

21Calvin Pryor *Green Bay Packers (8-7-1)
COLLEGE: LouisvilleAGE: 21HT: 6-2WT: 208POS: S

22Odell Beckham Jr. *Philadelphia Eagles (10-6)
COLLEGE: LSUAGE: 21HT: 6-0WT: 193POS: WR

23Kelvin Benjamin *Kansas City Chiefs (11-5)
COLLEGE: Florida St.AGE: 22HT: 6-4WT: 232POS: WR

24Darqueze DennardCincinnati Bengals (11-5)
COLLEGE: Michigan St.AGE: 22HT: 5-11WT: 197POS: CB

25Marcus Roberson *San Diego Chargers (9-7)
COLLEGE: FloridaAGE: 21HT: 6-0WT: 195POS: CB

26Davante Adams *Cleveland Browns (4-12) (From IND)
COLLEGE: Fresno St.AGE: 21HT: 6-2WT: 214POS: WR

27Antonio Richardson *New Orleans Saints (11-5)
COLLEGE: TennesseeAGE: 21HT: 6-6WT: 327POS: OT

28Brandin Cooks *Carolina Panthers (12-4)
COLLEGE: Oregon St.AGE: 21HT: 5-10WT: 186POS: WR

29Jace Amaro *New England Patriots (12-4)
COLLEGE: Texas TechAGE: 21HT: 6-5WT: 260POS: TE

30Jarvis Landry *San Francisco 49ers (12-4)
COLLEGE: LSUAGE: 21HT: 6-1WT: 195POS: WR

31Bradley Roby *Denver Broncos (13-3)
COLLEGE: Ohio St.AGE: 21HT: 5-11WT: 192POS: CB

32Allen Robinson *Seattle Seahawks (13-3)
COLLEGE: Penn St.AGE: 21HT: 6-3WT: 210POS: WR


9 WRs in first.

Playoffs
02-06-2014, 10:52 AM
Tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top...

Kiper conference call:

Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft
I know Kiper is getting picked on for the consensus stuff. I think if he defined it, "majority" would be a more appropriate word.

And that does it for the call. Nice to see Kiper can get you all riled up, haha.

Kiper on Seattle: "Everybody doesn't have the array of talent that the Seahawks do. Everybody's going to copy that and I say good luck."

Kiper doesn't think Sammy Watkins will slip past the fifth pick.

I'll have to go back and listen, but now Kiper just said Breeland is a third or fourth rounder.

Kiper on Borland: I don't care how tall he is. He's got great instincts, love his approach. He's going to be a second round pick.

Kiper thinks all three top offensive tackles go in the top 11. He has Robinson No. 2 to St. Louis.

Kiper said the majority of teams have it Robinson, Lewan and Matthews.

Kiper thinks Jake Matthews may be slipping a bit because some teams view him as a right tackle.

Kiper mentioned 3rd round for Austin Seferian-Jenkins, which makes me sad.

Kiper thinks the Ravens should look at Eric Ebron in the first round, if he's not there a WR.

Kiper thinks Bashaud Breeland of Clemson could go in the second round. Whoa.

2nd round for Kyle Fuller, 3rd or 4th of Antone Exum.

Kiper thinks Logan Thomas could still be a 2nd or 3rd rounder, but he can't play early. Some in the NFL still think he's a 6th rounder.

Kiper: Third to fifth round for Michael Sam. Andrew Wilson Day 3. James Franklin UDFA. Day 3 for the Mizzou WRs depending on workouts.

Kiper thinks Ealy would fit in New Orleans because he's versatile. But he thinks he'll be a late first round pick.

Kiper thinks there will be a lot of centers and guards in the second round for the Colts to get.

Kiper has Morgan Moses as a late first or early second rounder as a right tackle. Thinks Jack Mewhort is a second rounder.

Kiper thinks Zack Martin would be a good pick for Miami and could be in play for Arizona. Cyrus Kouandjio in that range as well.

Kiper says Kelcy Quarles is gaining a lot of momentum and could be a mid second round pick and may rise higher.

Kiper said a lot of teams still have Clowney No. 1 on their boards.

Kiper thinks Clowney, like Manziel, could go No. 1 or No. 3 to get pressure on Andrew Luck in the AFC South.

Kiper thinks Jace Amaro goes late in the first round, maybe to New England with pick No. 29.

Kiper thinks Calvin Pryor may end up being the top safety because he can play free or strong.

Kiper: "I think the next Steve Smith could be Brandin Cooks, who I have going to Carolina with pick No. 28."

Kiper thinks Bruce Gaston is a fourth rounder but could rise with a good pro day. Thinks Ricardo Allen is a UDFA.

Kiper thinks Stanley Jean-Baptiste is a mid-second rounder and will be the first Nebraska player draft. Now, Purdue questions!

Kiper doesn't think Lewan gets past Tennessee with pick No. 11.

Kiper thinks Lewan could go No. 2 to St. Louis or to Buffalo at No. 9. In the big board, Kiper thinks he's a top 10 player.

Kiper: Lewan has outstanding feet, balance and pass protection. Me: Uh...

Kiper on Lewan: He's a heck of a prospect, and I've thought that all along. It wasn't him, it was the interior of the line.

Kiper thinks that by the time the draft happens, Teddy Bridgewater will be underrated. Says Bortles has momentum and Manziel is NFL's No. 1

Kiper said there's not a consensus in the NFL on Bridgewater. He has it Bridge/Bortles/Manziel but GMs and scouts have them mixed up.

@bhavikjpatel I'm on a conference call.

Kiper says Tim Jernigan would be "a heck of a pick" for the Bears if he's there. "I don't think DL is something you can wait on."

Kiper on Clowney being worried about injury in 2013: "That's all he worried about this year, it seems like."

Kiper on the Browns: They could go QB/WR or WR/QB depending how the ratings work out for them.

"You see some similarities between Bridgewater and Donovan McNabb." Kiper says he's heard Cleveland has a high opinion of Bridgewater.

Kiper thinks Manziel will go No. 1 or No. 3. He thinks the Browns go with Teddy Bridgewater.

"For Cleveland, to see Manziel there would be a surprise to me. When you talk to people in the league, he's the consensus No. 1 QB."

Kiper says WR might be a position the Steelers wait on a little bit in the draft this year because of the depth and what they did last year.

Kiper thinks the Steelers could land the second best corner with their first round pick, whether that's Gilbert or Dennard.

Kiper thinks just two or three first round cornerbacks. "A lot of 2nd and 3rd round coners."

Kiper thinks the first round would be a nice opportunity for the Chiefs to draft a WR because of the quality of the position.

Kiper mentions Benjamin, Beckham, Adams, Cooks, Landry as guys that would be "viable" for Kansas City.

Kiper: KC could go WR, safety, tight end. If you look at the WR pos, you could see 6-9 in the 1st round. Underclassmen need to test well.

Kiper: "Mack could jump into the mix at No. 3 easily (with a good combine)."

Kiper starts by talking the importance of the Combine because it gives teams true measurables on underclassmen.

Hopping on a Mel Kiper call and will tweet a bunch. If you're not a Mel fan, you may want to unfollow for about two hours.

thunderkyss
02-06-2014, 11:03 AM
2/6
1Johnny Manziel *Houston Texans (2-14)
COLLEGE: Texas A&MAGE: 21HT: 6-0WT: 205POS: QB

Analysis: My internal debate here was Mr. Football or Mr. Clowney. Thing is, I don't think that's too much different than the scenario going on with Houston right now -- just add a few players to the mix. In Manziel, you get a quarterback who in my opinion is ready to play NFL football and make plays, and is preparing with the goal of helping a team right away. In Jadeveon Clowney, you get the most talented player in the draft, a defensive force to pair somewhere along the line with J.J. Watt and create major problems for opposing offenses. Right now I'll stick with the early bet on Manziel, and the idea that coach Bill O'Brien becomes convinced this is his QB of the future.



I'd like to hear him substantiate the bolded.

I like Manziel. I think there is enough "buzz" around him to compensate for his shortcomings (no pun intended), enough excitement for a #1 overall selection.... But I'll never say he's "ready" to play NFL football. He'll play his brand of football & we'll see if the NFL is ready for him, but that's a different story.

I won't have a problem if the Texans draft him #1 overall, but I'll be upset if he's put into a position where he has to start day 1; i.e. they cut Matt Schaub, don't bring in a vet, or don't give Keenum/Yates a real opportunity to win the job.

I want our focus to be on winning, not developing a QB (like we did from 2004 - 2006).

thunderkyss
02-06-2014, 11:12 AM
2/6
3Jadeveon Clowney *Jacksonville Jaguars (4-12)
COLLEGE: South CarolinaAGE: 20HT: 6-5WT: 274POS: DE

Analysis: The owner in Jacksonville has made it pretty clear that the search for a quarterback is on, and the draft is a place they'll be looking. While I think they'd be a good fit for Manziel, in this scenario he's not around, and they instead go with the top pass-rusher in the draft. Make no mistake, QB is a huge need, but the Jags have been looking to improve the pass rush for years. If they love one of the other QB possibilities, that could certainly be the pick, but if the board breaks this way, I think Clowney proves irresistible.

4Teddy Bridgewater *Cleveland Browns (4-12)
COLLEGE: LouisvilleAGE: 22HT: 6-2WT: 220POS: QB



Again, I think it's interesting that Bridgewater gets past St. Louis & Jacksonville. If he's a sure fire "franchise" QB, no way these two QB needy teams pass on him. No way.

I understand it would be the same for Manziel, & I would feel the same... I don't think we should take either at 1-1, but I can understand the "excitement" factor around Manziel..... even though that never ends well for the team taking the "excitement" pick.

But I can understand it.

kiwitexansfan
02-06-2014, 11:41 AM
When Kiper talks about teams, he really means scouts on teams right?

Playoffs
02-13-2014, 10:42 AM
When Kiper talks about teams, he really means scouts on teams right?

Or scouts with the scouting services, more likely. Any "team" that says anything to Kiper at this time of year is gaming the draft.

2/12 Big Board (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10440857/2014-nfl-draft-greg-robinson-khalil-mack-crack-top-three-mel-kiper-latest-big-board)

1Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 20DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-6WT: 265POS: DE

I expect Clowney to have an outstanding combine and further cement his standing. Clowney has a special range of traits and talent, with the quickness to beat people at the point of attack, the power to run through blockers and the speed to pursue plays all over the field. He's not just an edge-rusher looking to quickly turn the corner; he doesn't even bend that well. He can win with quickness or power and succeed in any scheme. Need will factor into where he lands in the draft, especially given so much need at quarterback among teams drafting early.

2Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 320POS: OT

Robinson is now my best bet to be the first offensive lineman taken, and I think his athleticism will shine in Indy. He is certainly a possibility to go with one of the top two picks, and it mainly would be because his tape from 2013 is exceptional. Brought in as a guard, Robinson started at left tackle in the SEC as a redshirt freshman and held his own. Last season, he was dominant, with increased strength making him closer to that complete package at tackle. He moves well, can get out in the run game and block in space and pass protects well with a wide base and quick feet. He also has long arms and delivers a solid punch. A potential star.

3Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 248POS: OLB

I expect Mack to put on a show in Indy, with good speed, agility and leaping ability and adequate length. Scouts are getting caught up on his tape, but those who haven't aren't missing constant dominance so much as versatility. You'll see Mack lining up both at the line and on the perimeter. He is versatile and capable of rushing the passer with quickness and power or dropping into coverage with a great ability to shed tackles and make plays in the open field. He uses good leverage to take on blocks and drive people back and uses quickness and strong hands to shed. He plays with a great motor and tackles with form.

4Jake MatthewsAGE: 22DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 305POS: OT

There has been some chatter that Matthews could move off left tackle, but his ceiling to me is still as a very good NFL player at that position. Matthews has a ton of experience and a feisty, competitive nature. He is a very good pass protector, with good balance, feet and hand use, and he plays prepared as an intense worker who carries great NFL bloodlines; his father, brother and two cousins have played in the league. I also like his ability to finish in the run game, where he shows off a nasty streak.

5Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 205POS: WR

6Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-4WT: 244POS: OLB

7Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 245POS: TE

8Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-8WT: 308POS: OT

9Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB

Given the QB needs across the top of the draft board, we can't rule out Bridgewater as a potential top pick. He is poised and smart and is the QB in this draft class who most regularly made throws with good timing and anticipation. He throws to spots and openings, not just to open targets. Bridgewater also has a good blend of adequate arm strength to drive the ball into tight windows and the touch to drop the ball into holes in coverage. He adjusts his velocity really well, depending on the depth and location of the pass. He does a good job pre-snap, gets through his progressions and often scans the whole field. His ball placement is consistently good.

10Blake Bortles *AGE: 22DOB: 12/16/91HT: 6-4WT: 230POS: QB

I would love to see him throw in Indy, but I'm not sure he will. When ball placement is a concern, throwing to unfamiliar targets might be off the script. Bortles offers an enticing blend of the size you traditionally look for at quarterback with the athleticism that is now coveted across the NFL as more offenses put mobility to good use. He has the work ethic that will get more people to believe in his ceiling. He has sound mechanics, though almost rigidly so, and shows poise and good footwork in the pocket. He has above-average arm strength and can drive the ball pretty well on intermediate throws. The big issue is inconsistent ball placement; he can ask a lot of his wide receivers.

11Johnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-1WT: 206POS: QB

The modern NFL is a good fit for a player with Manziel's skill set. His ability to move, improvise and make throws off platform are all special traits, but he's also an effective pocket passer when he wants to be. He anticipates well and sees the whole field, and though he doesn't have great arm strength, he can make special throws with touch and precision both from the pocket and on the move. He would deliver strikes with more velocity if he kept his feet underneath him consistently. I'm concerned that he'll allow himself to take too many hits, but he can learn not to. I also think he can prepare at an elite level and is one of the greatest competitors I've ever seen.

12Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 298POS: DT

13C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 232POS: LB

14Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-0WT: 195POS: WR

15Mike Evans **AGE: 20DOB: 8/21/93HT: 6-5WT: 220POS: WR

16Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/31/91HT: 6-3WT: 326POS: DT

17Zack MartinAGE: 23DOB: 11/20/90HT: 6-4WT: 308POS: OT

18Justin GilbertAGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 200POS: CB

19Darqueze DennardAGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 197POS: CB

20Cyrus Kouandjio *AGE: 20DOB: 7/21/93HT: 6-6WT: 311POS: OT

21Odell Beckham Jr. *AGE: 21DOB: 11/5/92HT: 6-0WT: 187POS: WR

22Calvin Pryor *AGE: 21DOB: 7/2/92HT: 6-2WT: 208POS: S

23Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 21DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S

24Jace Amaro *AGE: 21DOB: 6/26/92HT: 6-5WT: 255POS: TE

25Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-2WT: 225POS: OLB

TexansFTW
02-13-2014, 10:49 AM
Mel Kiper is such a joke.

Why does anyone even follow this guy anymore?

I think it's ABUNDANTLY clear that nothing he says is ever his anymore.

Scroll up this page and look at what he said on 2/06. 7 days ago!!

You can't have swings like that in 7 Freaking days! You don't just throw away your big board from week to week if it truly is yours.

I'm not gonna sit here and say mine hasn't changed or things haven't happened, but my swings are very subtle, as I think most that are truly doing this with their own brains are. You don't watch a guy, call him #1, then 7 days later call him #11 even though you watched all the other guys 7 days before too.

What an absolute joke.

thunderkyss
02-13-2014, 10:55 AM
Or scouts with the scouting services, more likely. Any "team" that says anything to Kiper at this time of year is gaming the draft.

1 Jadeveon Clowney

2 Greg Robinson

3 Khalil Mack

4 Jake Matthews

5 Sammy Watkins

6 Anthony Barr

7 Eric Ebron

8 Taylor Lewan

9 Teddy Bridgewater

Given the QB needs across the top of the draft board, we can't rule out Bridgewater as a potential top pick.

10 Blake Bortles

11 Johnny Manziel

12 Timmy Jernigan

13 C.J. Mosley

14 Marqise Lee

15 Mike Evans

16 Louis Nix III

17 Zack Martin

18 Justin Gilbert

19 Darqueze Dennard

20 Cyrus Kouandjio

21 Odell Beckham Jr.

22 Calvin Pryor

23 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix

24 Jace Amaro

25 Ryan Shazier

2/12 Big Board (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10440857/2014-nfl-draft-greg-robinson-khalil-mack-crack-top-three-mel-kiper-latest-big-board)

Starting to look more "right" it's the QB need that will drive these QBs to top 5 picks. There's nothing wrong with that. Happens almost every year.

jradMIT
02-13-2014, 11:01 AM
I still think Bridgewater has the lowest floor. What gets said about Bridgewater consistently is that he is a good decision maker with poise that goes through his progressions and scans the field well pre/post snap. He can start from day 1 with decent effectiveness in most any system. I hesitate to say that with Manziel, I think he'll need and OC that shapes the playbook around his strengths and weaknesses. He might have some growing pains initially, but I still like his decision making and awareness, my main concern with him is durability. Bortles needs the most progression and coaching up of the three, I think it will be hard for him to be effective day 1, I think he still needs to learn how to see the whole field and go through his progressions. All three are first rounders in my mind. Bridgewater to me is the best bet to succeed, Manziel has the highest ceiling, Bortles has the lowest floor.

infantrycak
02-13-2014, 11:23 AM
Mel Kiper is such a joke.

Why does anyone even follow this guy anymore?

I think it's ABUNDANTLY clear that nothing he says is ever his anymore.

Scroll up this page and look at what he said on 2/06. 7 days ago!!

You can't have swings like that in 7 Freaking days! You don't just throw about your big board from week to week if it truly is yours.

I don't know why people keep laying this criticism at his feet every year. His model and yours are not the same and in his swings do make sense. He unabashedly moves people based on "what I am hearing." That isn't something you can say because people inside teams and scouting agencies aren't talking to you on the side.

I am not defending the accuracy of his big board. Just commenting that he and say Mike Mayock don't claim to do the same thing and shouldn't be expected to do the same thing.

Blake
02-13-2014, 11:29 AM
I don't know why people keep laying this criticism at his feet every year. His model and yours are not the same and in his swings do make sense. He unabashedly moves people based on "what I am hearing." That isn't something you can say because people inside teams and scouting agencies aren't talking to you on the side.

I am not defending the accuracy of his big board. Just commenting that he and say Mike Mayock don't claim to do the same thing and shouldn't be expected to do the same thing.

So if his big board is just him parroting what his sources are saying, that tells me that his sources arent very good or reliable.

thunderkyss
02-13-2014, 12:12 PM
I still think Bridgewater has the lowest floor.

I think it's difficult to judge his floor when you consider he wasn't playing the best of the best week in & week out. In the NFL, the competition he's going to see every week is going to be better than the best defense he saw all year.

Guys like Flacco & Roethlisberger were able to deal with it... so I'm not saying Bridgewater can't. Just that it's difficult to determine his floor.

bah007
02-13-2014, 12:18 PM
I think the problem that most people have with Kiper is how critical he is with people who don't agree with him. Which is ironic because his "opinions" were not crafted from his own study of the players but are instead crafted from talking to people who do study the players.

I have no problem with his work. But his attitude is annoying. If he were forced to watch film on his own without guidance from others he wouldn't know what he was looking at. He has no ammo to back up his arguments other than just repeating things that he was told by others.

infantrycak
02-13-2014, 12:26 PM
I think the problem that most people have with Kiper is how critical he is with people who don't agree with him. Which is ironic because his "opinions" were not crafted from his own study of the players but are instead crafted from talking to people who do study the players.

I have no problem with his work. But his attitude is annoying. If he were forced to watch film on his own without guidance from others he wouldn't know what he was looking at. He has no ammo to back up his arguments other than just repeating things that he was told by others.

Now that's valid criticism. It was the nature of the criticism I was objecting to earlier.

bah007
02-13-2014, 12:32 PM
Now that's valid criticism. It was the nature of the criticism I was objecting to earlier.

I agree with your earlier post. Kiper is not like Mayock and has never claimed to be.

Playoffs
02-13-2014, 12:42 PM
I have no problem with his work. But his attitude is annoying...

Kiper is a reporter who talks/writes as if he's a scout... with great hair.

Can't wait for him & McShay to go at it again http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/beating-and-fighting/smileys-beating-and-fighting-498920.gif

TexansFTW
02-13-2014, 12:46 PM
I don't know why people keep laying this criticism at his feet every year. His model and yours are not the same and in his swings do make sense. He unabashedly moves people based on "what I am hearing." That isn't something you can say because people inside teams and scouting agencies aren't talking to you on the side.

I am not defending the accuracy of his big board. Just commenting that he and say Mike Mayock don't claim to do the same thing and shouldn't be expected to do the same thing.

I hear what you're saying and that's fine that he does that. Most are aware and that's clear. That's not my issue.

My issue is saying "This is my big board".

No, it's not. You can't have swings like that in 7 days. These 2 boards might as well have come from 2 different sides of the world. At least McShay's board you can tell that it was 'his' board last week and is just getting a work over.

Does he talk to 4 teams one week, then the next week talk to 4 different teams and completely override and forget what the original 4 teams said the previous week?

What is that? What if he talks to 4 different different teams next week and it's completely different again? (4 teams is a random example I am making up, no truth to it)

If his final product is solid, that's fine, I just won't follow his process as detailed in the future.

thunderkyss
02-13-2014, 02:07 PM
My issue is saying "This is my big board".

No, it's not. You can't have swings like that in 7 days.

Maybe it was a correction.... Looks more inline with what he had before, with some movement. But yeah, taking Manziel from 11 to 1 then back to 11... eh...


He was most likely watching a Manziel highlight reel just before the 2/6 "big board" then he's come back to earth since.

drs23
02-13-2014, 02:13 PM
Or scouts with the scouting services, more likely. Any "team" that says anything to Kiper at this time of year is gaming the draft.

McShay:
[quote]10Teddy Bridgewater*
COLLEGE: LouisvilleAGE: 20HT: 6-2WT: 198POS: QB

Kiper
9Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-3WT: 218POS: QB

Dayum, TB's gained twenty pounds since McShay's mock I just read 2 minutes! :kitten:

Edit: And grew an inch plus he's a year older! Gotta draft that kid. He does things NO ONE else can do!

TK should be feeling good about him now. :D

thunderkyss
02-13-2014, 02:20 PM
Dayum, TB's gained twenty pounds since McShay's mock I just read 2 minutes! :kitten:

TK should be feeling good about him now. :D

I'm waiting for the combine numbers.

The Pencil Neck
02-14-2014, 12:14 AM
I'm waiting for the combine numbers.

This is my position across the board.

I'm trying very hard not to fall in love with any players before I see a few estimates and guesses either confirmed or denied.

TexansFTW
02-14-2014, 08:29 AM
IMO you should already have your decision formed before the combine, then the combine has the ability to either reinforce your decision or off put you so much that you are forced to move onto #2 option.

It should never be anything as drastic as you might see from Mel Kiper's 7 day swings in 'his' big board.

infantrycak
02-14-2014, 09:04 AM
IMO you should already have your decision formed before the combine, then the combine has the ability to either reinforce your decision or off put you so much that you are forced to move onto #2 option.

Agreed. The combine should be about identifying abnormalities is the already made evaluation of the players based on tape - spotting where for some reason their combine performance doesn't match their on field performance.

Texian
02-14-2014, 09:29 AM
Regarding the Combine, some performances can be difference makers:

For RBs and CBs, 10 & 40 times, shuttle times and vertical leap can move players up and down the draft board.

For LB, DL & OL, 10 yd times and 225 reps can make a difference.

Examples: a 4.2 40 can move an RB to RD1. A 4.3 40 can move CBs up a RD or two and a 40" vertical can do the same.

A sub 1.50 10 yd split can move DE, OLBs in to RD 1 and RBs up in the draft.

OG, OT & DT who lift 225 < 25 times could drop noticeably but 225 > 30 times could enhance their draft position.

Broad Jump measures explosion and those with great performance could move up.

Combine performances do make a difference, for everyone? No. For a few, absolutely. The #1 priority of the Combine is medicals, #2 is interviews and #3 is measurables and performance.

jradMIT
02-14-2014, 09:35 AM
I think you have a ranking already formed, but things you see at pro days and the combine plus the interviews, can move a guy up or down if you have them ranked close. A good interview and some better than expected combine numbers still should be able to make the difference.

infantrycak
02-14-2014, 10:05 AM
Regarding the Combine, some performances can be difference makers:

Nobody said anything different.

Examples: a 4.2 40 can move an RB to RD1.

Based on a sample size of 1, maybe.

Texian
02-14-2014, 11:23 AM
Nobody said anything different.





and I never said anyone did, but if the shoe fits...

infantrycak
02-14-2014, 11:46 AM
sample size of 2, Chris Johnson and Tavon Austin.

Tavon Austin was not drafted as a RB.

But you missed the point. You made a whole slew of "can" statements which is a far cry from routinely or commonly. Fact is off of game tape most clubs know about where someone is going to run. It is only when they run exceptionally different than anticipated that it makes significant changes in draft order.

Texian
02-14-2014, 11:58 AM
Tavon Austin was not drafted as a RB.

But you missed the point. You made a whole slew of "can" statements which is a far cry from routinely or commonly. Fact is off of game tape most clubs know about where someone is going to run. It is only when they run exceptionally different than anticipated that it makes significant changes in draft order.

I missed no point, that was your interpretation not mine. Therefore you would be the one who missed the point. Fact is my whole slew of statements are true regardless of how you want to interpret them. The other side of the coin, and you are also welcome to interpret them as you so desire, which won't necessarily make it correct, poor times, jumps or combine performances can also drop players in the draft. Game tape is not always THE ABSOLUTE as you want to suggest. The FACT and reality is the Combine in some cases MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR BETTER OR WORSE!

infantrycak
02-14-2014, 12:07 PM
Game tape is not always THE ABSOLUTE as you want to suggest.

I suggested no such thing.

The FACT and reality is the Combine in some cases MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR BETTER OR WORSE!

Finally, you get it.

Texian
02-14-2014, 12:15 PM
I suggested no such thing.



Finally, you get it.

You often are articulate and bring much to the discussion. On other occasions your propensity to want to argue for the sake of arguing makes your babble the equivalent of a bag of hot air. This is one of those other occasions. :)

thunderkyss
02-14-2014, 04:35 PM
If Bridgewater is 6'3" (which I don't doubt) 218lbs (which I don't believe he'll weigh) he'll move ahead of Manziel on my board.

Playoffs
02-14-2014, 10:36 PM
If Bridgewater is 6'3" (which I don't doubt) 218lbs (which I don't believe he'll weigh) he'll move ahead of Manziel on my board.

Why? What's the weight line in the sand? >209 and he's better than Manziel, but 208 or less and he's worse?

thunderkyss
02-15-2014, 08:07 AM
Why? What's the weight line in the sand? >209 and he's better than Manziel, but 208 or less and he's worse?

I'm still old school I guess. I look at it from the stand point of durability. He was thin all year, I think he's a natural hard gainer & while he might get his weight up to 210 for the combine, he'll eventually settle back to his norm of 205 or less.

Manziel is short, 6'1" if he's lucky, but that same 205 looks better on him. More durable.

I know QBs get hurt all the time; big & small. I still think the smaller ones are more apt... I don't know that there is any data to prove it, I actually doubt it. But it makes sense. You don't send a boy to do a man's job.

You, & every Texans' fan know all too well what it's like to cross your fingers & hope your QB can play 16+ games a season, or if he gets hurt, that he can come back at the right time & finish. & we had a relatively "big" guy.

There are & there will be questions about his talent & his ability to lead. Don't need questions about his ability to stay on the field.

Playoffs
02-15-2014, 09:20 AM
I'm still old school I guess. I look at it from the stand point of durability. He was thin all year, I think he's a natural hard gainer & while he might get his weight up to 210 for the combine, he'll eventually settle back to his norm of 205 or less.

Manziel is short, 6'1" if he's lucky, but that same 205 looks better on him. More durable...

So if Teddy weighs 205 and Manziel weighs 205, Manziel will be higher on your board?

What if Teddy is 6'1" and Manziel is just under 6'? Does Teddy go back ahead or is Manziel still better than Teddy because they both weigh 205?

CloakNNNdagger
02-15-2014, 10:29 AM
Weighins can be cooked to show what you want them to be. If a quick weight GAIN is a goal for the Combine, it's a simple formula that requires no exercise or formal diet adjustment.........and no drugs to be detected that would jeopardize Draft/NFL status. Just load up on salt and chase it with your favorite water to easily add 5 pounds per day.

The Pencil Neck
02-15-2014, 12:09 PM
IMO you should already have your decision formed before the combine, then the combine has the ability to either reinforce your decision or off put you so much that you are forced to move onto #2 option.

It should never be anything as drastic as you might see from Mel Kiper's 7 day swings in 'his' big board.

Are you talking about the teams or are you talking about the fans?

For me... I'm a fan. I'm not such a hardcore draft fan that I watch college football players and identify guys I want. I gather information from a lot of sources including a lot of other peoples' opinions. I don't have a whole crew of researchers providing me information except for guys like Kiper and Mayock.

So, while watching the Combine and the Pro Days and listening to what other people are saying, that's how I'm going to come to my conclusions.

Then when we draft, I'll take a look at each kid and do a little more research (including talking to people here) and that's how I'll form my opinion of how we did.

For a football team with a whole crew of scouts and a GM and various coaches, they've got a lot of research to do and a lot of players to go over. They've got to integrate all of the information from the scouts with what the various coaches want and with what's done during FA.

The coaches, most of which haven't been watching much college ball during the season, have got to sit down first with tape of their own players to make evaluations and figure out where they want to go. Then they've got to take all the tape of kids from college and identify the guys the like and why and they've got to make a case to the GM about why he should pick their guy.

That's a ton of information.

To have you decisions about who you're going to go after already made this early into the process would be hasty, imo. You should have ideas about guys you want to watch and you should have ideas about what you should expect, but you shouldn't have come close to making any decisions, yet.

The Pencil Neck
02-15-2014, 12:13 PM
Weighins can be cooked to show what you want them to be. If a quick weight GAIN is a goal for the Combine, it's a simple formula that requires no exercise or formal diet adjustment.........and no drugs to be detected that would jeopardize Draft/NFL status. Just load up on salt and chase it with your favorite water to easily add 5 pounds per day.

As a powerlifter, I've seen some guys do some wild things to make weigh-ins.

Before my first competition, I had a stomach flu and dropped about 10 pounds. I was targeting lifting in a heavier weight class because of timing and scheduling issues. A day before, I was about 7 pounds short. After a serious hydration period, I made weight by a pound.

And then pissed like a racehorse.

thunderkyss
02-15-2014, 12:26 PM
So if Teddy weighs 205 and Manziel weighs 205, Manziel will be higher on your board?

What if Teddy is 6'1" and Manziel is just under 6'? Does Teddy go back ahead or is Manziel still better than Teddy because they both weigh 205?

Right now Manuel is ahead of Bridgewater because of his off-schedule ability. If Bridgewater can show he's closer to prototypical size it would be a plus for him.

I'm giving those that say Bridgewater was light this year because of off season surgery the benefit of the doubt. If after working on adding weight he is still light I'm going to conclude they were wrong & Bridgewater may never be closer to prototypical size than he is now.

Look. It doesn't have to make sense to you. I'm fine with that. You think Bridgewater is a franchise guy I don't. One of the reasons for that is because he looks like Pee Wee Herman. He can fix that. We'll see.


FYI... 205 is better the shorter the player is. 5'11" 205 is "stouter" than 6'5" 205 (which would be frail).

Playoffs
02-15-2014, 02:19 PM
...You think Bridgewater is a franchise guy I don't...

First, you mistake me for someone else. Just because someone else said it and I posted it doesn't mean that's my view -- I wouldn't have that many opposing takes. I post a wide spectrum of opinions of qualified or known scouts/media to further the discussion(s).

...Look. It doesn't have to make sense to you. I'm fine with that.

Not trying to be rude... I just don't understand changing your selection from QB A to QB C because A is 8 pounds light. I envision these guys when I read that...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lSs5gtJefns/UCECvRogSfI/AAAAAAAACoA/HVlLtjdaodA/s1600/Moneyball%2B6.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3GZwo0vGc)

Russell Wilson is 5' 10⅝" and 204 lbs. What does the tape show?

Lucky
02-15-2014, 02:42 PM
FYI... 205 is better the shorter the player is. 5'11" 205 is "stouter" than 6'5" 205 (which would be frail).
Tom Brady was 6'5" 211 lbs at the combine. Would that be frail? Actually, Brady was considered frail and not so athletic coming out of Michigan. And he was a 6th round pick. But he worked on his body, and became a better athlete and QB.

I would say yes, QBs are knocked for size. But that doesn't mean they can't overcome that and become good QBs. Bridgewater could easily bulk up.

thunderkyss
02-15-2014, 04:44 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lSs5gtJefns/UCECvRogSfI/AAAAAAAACoA/HVlLtjdaodA/s1600/Moneyball%2B6.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3GZwo0vGc)

Russell Wilson is 5' 10⅝" and 204 lbs. What does the tape show?

You do know that we're talking about a small guy (Bridgewater) & another small guy (Manziel). So it's not like I'm saying ideal size is a must. Some people would like their QBs to run a sub 5 forty. a 4.9 might put one QB ahead of another running a 5.02

thunderkyss
02-15-2014, 04:47 PM
Tom Brady was 6'5" 211 lbs at the combine. Would that be frail? Actually, Brady was considered frail and not so athletic coming out of Michigan. And he was a 6th round pick. But he worked on his body, and became a better athlete and QB.

I would say yes, QBs are knocked for size. But that doesn't mean they can't overcome that and become good QBs. Bridgewater could easily bulk up.

I'd have no issue drafting Bridgewater in the 6th. But I'm sure someone is going to over-value him & take him in the top 10 because one particular frail QB happens to be one of the GOATs.

leebigeztx
02-15-2014, 06:40 PM
The combine is more about the interviews and physicals. No player moves up or down more thsn 1/2 rd after a great combine unless al davis is alive.

Dishman
02-15-2014, 08:32 PM
I'd have no issue drafting Bridgewater in the 6th. But I'm sure someone is going to over-value him & take him in the top 10 because one particular frail QB happens to be one of the GOATs.

So, if I understand you, Tom Brady is frail, weak, feeble. The same Tom Brady who has played all 16 games in 11 of his 14 seasons, and 15 games in one of those sub-16 game appearances.

Do I understand you correctly?

Lucky
02-15-2014, 09:46 PM
No player moves up or down more thsn 1/2 rd after a great combine unless al davis is alive.
Which is completely subjective, because there is no pre-combine draft. No one knows who would go where if the combine didn't exist. Where would Dontari Poe have been drafted if not for his spectacular combine? No one can say for sure.

jradMIT
02-15-2014, 10:31 PM
I'm still old school I guess. I look at it from the stand point of durability. He was thin all year, I think he's a natural hard gainer & while he might get his weight up to 210 for the combine, he'll eventually settle back to his norm of 205 or less.

Manziel is short, 6'1" if he's lucky, but that same 205 looks better on him. More durable.

I know QBs get hurt all the time; big & small. I still think the smaller ones are more apt... I don't know that there is any data to prove it, I actually doubt it. But it makes sense. You don't send a boy to do a man's job.

You, & every Texans' fan know all too well what it's like to cross your fingers & hope your QB can play 16+ games a season, or if he gets hurt, that he can come back at the right time & finish. & we had a relatively "big" guy.

There are & there will be questions about his talent & his ability to lead. Don't need questions about his ability to stay on the field.


Manziel looks to run much more than Bridgewater. Bridgewater pretty much avoided contact by sliding and going out of bounds. Looking at the injury history, Bridgewater went through the season with no issues, Manziel was playing thru a shoulder, hand, and ankle injuries as the season progressed. Manziel is the bigger injury risk based on injury history and style of play.

thunderkyss
02-16-2014, 04:50 PM
So, if I understand you, Tom Brady is frail, weak, feeble. The same Tom Brady who has played all 16 games in 11 of his 14 seasons, and 15 games in one of those sub-16 game appearances.

Do I understand you correctly?

There will always be exceptions to the rule.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Dishman
02-16-2014, 05:03 PM
There will always be exceptions to the rule.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

But you think Brady is frail, right? You said, "...one particular frail QB happens to be one of the GOATs."

I'm trying to understand your definition of frail here because it sounds like your standard is quite high. Tom Brady has played all 16 games in 11 of 14 seasons and 15 games in one of those other 3. That something like 193 games played and 33 missed, which sounds fairly durable.

The Pencil Neck
02-16-2014, 05:09 PM
There will always be exceptions to the rule.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I think the point to take away is something that both O'Brien and Brady have said in different ways. Brady started off as a skinny, non-athletic project. But because of his dedication, work-ethic, and intelligence, he was able to improve himself and become one of the GOATs. Players can, with work, improve themselves.

Brady has said that -- I think it was near the end of his rookie year -- he saw an evaluation on him by the Patriots that basically said he needed to do everything faster. And so, he worked on that and he sped everything up. O'Brien has said that in most cases, a QB can improve their arm strength.

The evaluation that a team has to do is to figure out not only what these players are and what they did in college, but can they be molded and improved and built into what the team needs.

Bridgewater and Manziel are not going to get taller. But they can get bigger and stronger. They have to have the work-ethic and the desire so that after they're drafted, they will work on their weaknesses in the offseason.

O'Brien's biggest thing is their intelligence and their ability to make the right decisions quickly. I don't know how he's going to test that but that's how he's going to decide which QB to take this year (IF he takes a QB which I don't think is a given.)

Playoffs
02-16-2014, 05:15 PM
Quarterbacks
1. *Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
2. *Blake Bortles, UCF
3. **Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
4. Derek Carr, Fresno State
5. AJ McCarron, Alabama
6. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
7. Zach Mettenberger, LSU
8. Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech
9. *Brett Smith, Wyoming
10. Aaron Murray, Georgia
Running backs
1. Carlos Hyde, Ohio State
2. *Ka'Deem Carey, Arizona
3. *Bishop Sankey, Washington
4. *Jeremy Hill, LSU
5. *Lache Seastrunk, Baylor
6. *De'Anthony Thomas, Oregon
7. *Tre Mason, Auburn
8. Charles Sims, West Virginia
9. Dri Archer, Kent State
10. Andre Williams, Boston College
Wide receivers
1. *Sammy Watkins, Clemson
2. *Marqise Lee, USC
3. **Mike Evans, Texas A&M
4. *Odell Beckham Jr., LSU
5. *Brandin Cooks, Oregon State
6. **Davante Adams, Fresno State
7. *Jarvis Landry, LSU
8. **Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State
9. Robert Herron, Wyoming
10. Josh Huff, Oregon
Tight ends
1. *Eric Ebron, North Carolina
2. *Jace Amaro, Texas Tech
3. *Troy Niklas, Notre Dame
4. *Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz, Iowa
6. Crockett Gillmore, Colorado State
7. Marcel Jensen, Fresno State
8. *Jake Murphy, Utah
9. *Colt Lyerla, Oregon
10. Jordan Najvar, Baylor
Offensive tackles
1. *Greg Robinson, Auburn
2. Jake Matthews, Texas A&M
3. Taylor Lewan, Michigan
4. Zack Martin, Notre Dame
5. *Cyrus Kouandjio, Alabama
6. *Antonio Richardson, Tennessee
7. Morgan Moses, Virginia
8. Jack Mewhort, Ohio State
9. Ja'Wuan James, Tennessee
10. Seantrel Henderson, Miami (Fla.)
Offensive guards
1. Gabe Jackson, Mississippi State
2. *David Yankey, Stanford
3. Brandon Thomas, Clemson
4. *Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA
5. Cyril Richardson, Baylor
6. Joel Bitonio, Nevada
7. Jon Halapio, Florida
8. John Urschel, Penn State
9. Chris Watt, Notre Dame
10. Ryan Groy, Wisconsin
Centers
1. *Marcus Martin, USC
2. Weston Richburg, Colorado State
3. *Russell Bodine, North Carolina
4. Travis Swanson, Arkansas
5. Bryan Stork, Florida State
6. Jonotthan Harrison, Florida
7. Tyler Larsen, Utah State
8. Dillon Farrell, New Mexico
9. James Stone, Tennessee
10. Zac Kerin, Toledo

infantrycak
02-16-2014, 05:16 PM
But you think Brady is frail, right? You said, "...one particular frail QB happens to be one of the GOATs."

I'm trying to understand your definition of frail here because it sounds like your standard is quite high. Tom Brady has played all 16 games in 11 of 14 seasons and 15 games in one of those other 3. That something like 193 games played and 33 missed, which sounds fairly durable.

You're even exaggerating his games missed. In 2000 he wasn't the starter so those are not missed games. Bledsoe started the 1st two games of 2001 so again not games missed. Since then he had one injury causing him to miss games, the knee in 2008 causing him to miss 15 games. That's it, one injury which would have felled any QB who sustained that hit and resulted in a rule change.

There will always be exceptions to the rule.


Funny, you seem not to be aware of that when talking about Russell Wilson.

Playoffs
02-16-2014, 05:18 PM
Defensive ends
1. *Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
2. *Kony Ealy, Missouri
3. *Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
4. *Scott Crichton, Oregon State
5. Chris Smith, Arkansas
6. *Demarcus Lawrence, Boise State
7. Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas
8. Kareem Martin, North Carolina
9. *Jeoffrey Pagan, Alabama
10. Marcus Smith, Louisville
Defensive tackles
1. *Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
2. *Louis Nix III, Notre Dame
3. Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh
4. *Kelcy Quarles, South Carolina
5. Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota
6. Will Sutton, Arizona State
7. *Dominique Easley, Florida
8. DaQuan Jones, Penn State
9. *Anthony Johnson, LSU
10. *Ego Ferguson, LSU
Inside linebackers
1. C.J. Mosley, Alabama
2. Chris Borland, Wisconsin
3. Shayne Skov, Stanford
4. Preston Brown, Louisville
5. Max Bullough, Michigan State
6. *Yawin Smallwood, Connecticut
7. Jordan Zumwalt, UCLA
8. Glenn Carson, Penn State
9. Avery Williamson, Kentucky
10. Andrew Jackson, Western Kentucky
Outside linebackers
1. Khalil Mack, Buffalo
2. Anthony Barr, UCLA
3. *Ryan Shazier, Ohio State
4. Dee Ford, Auburn
5. Kyle Van Noy, BYU
6. Trent Murphy, Stanford
7. *Carl Bradford, Arizona State
8. Telvin Smith, Florida State
9. Lamin Barrow, LSU
10. *Adrian Hubbard, Alabama
Cornerbacks
1. Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State
2. Darqueze Dennard, Michigan State
3. Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State
4. Jason Verrett, TCU
5. *Marcus Roberson, Florida
6. *Bradley Roby, Ohio State
7. Keith McGill, Utah
8. *Loucheiz Purifoy, Florida
9. Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
10. *Bashaud Breeland, Clemson
Safeties
1. *Calvin Pryor, Louisville
2. *Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Alabama
3. Jimmie Ward, Northern Illinois
4. Deone Bucannon, Washington State
5. *Dion Bailey, USC
6. Antone Exum, Virginia Tech
7. Terrence Brooks, Florida State
8. Ahmad Dixon, Baylor
9. Marqueston Huff, Wyoming
10. Ty Zimmerman, Kansas State

Playoffs
02-16-2014, 05:22 PM
...Some people would like their QBs to run a sub 5 forty. a 4.9 might put one QB ahead of another running a 5.02

No NFL team would give a hoot if their QB ran a 4.9 vs. 5.02 second 40 yard dash.

Dishman
02-16-2014, 05:37 PM
You're even exaggerating his games missed.

Yup, and thanks for cleaning that up.

thunderkyss
02-16-2014, 06:51 PM
But you think Brady is frail, right? You said, "...one particular frail QB happens to be one of the GOATs."

I'm trying to understand your definition of frail here because it sounds like your standard is quite high. Tom Brady has played all 16 games in 11 of 14 seasons and 15 games in one of those other 3. That something like 193 games played and 33 missed, which sounds fairly durable.

But Tom Brady is not 6'4" 211 & hasn't been for the last 14 seasons. He was when he was drafted & that among other reasons was why he fell to the 6th round.

thunderkyss
02-16-2014, 06:59 PM
Funny, you seem not to be aware of that when talking about Russell Wilson.

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

thunderkyss
02-16-2014, 07:11 PM
Defensive ends
1. *Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
2. *Kony Ealy, Missouri
3. *Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
4. *Scott Crichton, Oregon State
5. Chris Smith, Arkansas
6. *Demarcus Lawrence, Boise State
7. Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas
8. Kareem Martin, North Carolina
9. *Jeoffrey Pagan, Alabama
10. Marcus Smith, Louisville


Clowney, Ealy, Tuitt.... I'm not saying these guys are the same, but there's a big drop off after these three. These three will go in the first round. Two of them maybe in the top ten. Personally, I don't believe you're going to get anything comparable in the second round.

QB on the other hand... Whether you like Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles, you can find a comparable prospect in the second, or even later, rounds.

TexansFTW
02-17-2014, 01:22 AM
QB on the other hand... Whether you like Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles, you can find a comparable prospect in the second, or even later, rounds.

People say this every year, and almost every year this doesn't happen. Literally EVERY SINGLE YEAR people in these message boards pull out their Brett Smith's from Wyoming or Matthews from Cornell and EVERY SINGLE YEAR those guys do nothing, those posters deny they said it, and the players fade into obscurity.

I know, I've been the guy touting the goose that lays golden eggs from Nowheresville, Antartica. I soon realized I was over thinking the simple stuff and I stopped.

There will always be a Tom Brady, a Tony Romo, or a Russell Wilson and this is what most hang their hats on, but they forget about all of the other late round failures. Here, take a look, there are a LOT. (Take note of what the Panthers did in 2010 and how they rectified that in 2011)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/QB-1980-now.htm

Then when you look at those bajillion guys, look at this list and take note of where most of these top guys were drafted:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2013/seasontype/2

Oh yeah, and if Drew Brees was drafted today, he would be a 1st round pick (1-32).

TexansFTW
02-17-2014, 01:24 AM
Are you talking about the teams or are you talking about the fans?

That's a ton of information.

To have you decisions about who you're going to go after already made this early into the process would be hasty, imo. You should have ideas about guys you want to watch and you should have ideas about what you should expect, but you shouldn't have come close to making any decisions, yet.

Not gonna quote your whole thing cause it's long.

I'm talking about both. They go hand in hand to an extent.

It is a ton of information, but we are talking about scouts here. They are not computer guys 5 days a week then message board warriors on the weekends. It is their main job and prime directive to know these players going INTO the season, THROUGH the season, and AFTER the season.

After the season ends, me, 5 day computer guy and message board warrior on the weekends has an idea of the guys I like and want. Then I see how our draft picks shake out, where I thought we needed work the most, and the availability of players. This list moves and shakes with the more I find out and obviously underclassmen declaring and abstract players from Wyoming or Cornell being brought to my attention.

But for the most part, you aren't seeing crazy swings from me and I don't believe you should from teams either. When you see this happening in a positive way for the player you generally overdraft players like Stephen Hill or you get teams like Al Davis used to own.

thunderkyss
02-17-2014, 01:41 AM
There will always be a Tom Brady, a Tony Romo, or a Russell Wilson and this is what most hang their hats on, but they forget about all of the other late round failures. Here, take a look, there are a LOT. (Take note of what the Panthers did in 2010 and how they rectified that in 2011)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/QB-1980-now.htm

Then when you look at those bajillion guys, look at this list and take note of where most of these top guys were drafted:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2013/seasontype/2

Oh yeah, and if Drew Brees was drafted today, he would be a 1st round pick (1-32).

Well there were a bunch of first rounders that didn't make that second list.

I'm not in the, "You can find a guy in the third, look at Russell Wilson... or undrafted, Romo... or in the 6th, Brady" crowd. If we end up having to start Tj Yates, then yeah I'm that guy. Or if they decide to start Case Keenum, I'll be that guy.

Now, before the draft I'm the, "There are six first round QBs in this draft, I think 4 QBs will be drafted in the first, 1 of those won't be 1st round talent, leaving 3 QBs I believe are first rounders on the board. & I have the 1st pick in the second round."

Oh yeah, Matt Scaub (3rd round) appeared on that second list more times than not.

TexansFTW
02-17-2014, 08:07 AM
Well there were a bunch of first rounders that didn't make that second list.

Oh yeah, Matt Scaub (3rd round) appeared on that second list more times than not.

1. And a bunch that did.

2. 7 years. Amount of years wasted trying to force a guy to become more than he was. I'm not gonna sit here and deny that he was great, you heard me, great, for a few of those years, but at the end of the day we wasted 7 years and several Super Bowl winning QBs in the draft waiting for him to be more than he was.

thunderkyss
02-17-2014, 09:09 AM
2. 7 years. Amount of years wasted trying to force a guy to become more than he was. I'm not gonna sit here and deny that he was great, you heard me, great, for a few of those years, but at the end of the day we wasted 7 years and several Super Bowl winning QBs in the draft waiting for him to be more than he was.

With hindsight, if you had the #1 pick in the 2010 draft, who would you take?


Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy


Did taking Tim Tebow in the first round increase his chances for success? He was not a first round QB. Just because Denver took him in the first, did not change that.

Sam Bradford... was he a first round QB? I think so. Even though he played on a very talented Oklahoma team. Even though he had an injury riddled Junior year. But not #1 overall & taking him #1 overall did not change his chances of success.

That's what we're dealing with here. The closer we get to the draft it appears more "scouts" & NFL people are saying the same thing. A month ago Bridgewater was considered the 3rd best player in the draft, I'm seeing boards now where he's the 10th best.

If we pick up Cassel, or Mallet, I guarantee you he'll drop out of the top 10. It shouldn't have anything to do with it, Jacksonville should be in the market for a QB, but they're saying they are leaning towards DE. Cleveland might be looking for a QB, but everyone has them taking Manziel.

If you use the same criteria that you've always used to evaluate QBs for the draft, which include height, weight, arm strength, accuracy, pro offense, level of competition, stats, mechanics, etc... he doesn't "grade" out to be a #1 overall QB... not a top 5 NFL prospect. We have to ignore a lot, rationalize a lot to justify taking him #1 overall & that should be a big red flag.

Every time you say, "Yeah, but...." something's wrong. 1 or 2, ok. But 3 or 4... watch out. You're trying to make this guy something he's not & are liable to waste another 7 years to "figure out" he's not.

jradMIT
02-17-2014, 09:27 AM
By the same standard of measurements neither Drew Brees nor Aaron Rodgers would grade out as Number 1 picks, yet if you had do overs on their drafts they would probably go #1. In the end if you believe it is the best decision with the largest expected value in return you make it, historical perspective doesn't always lead to the correct thinking in each case, just more often then not.


With hindsight, if you had the #1 pick in the 2010 draft, who would you take?


Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy


Did taking Tim Tebow in the first round increase his chances for success? He was not a first round QB. Just because Denver took him in the first, did not change that.

Sam Bradford... was he a first round QB? I think so. Even though he played on a very talented Oklahoma team. Even though he had an injury riddled Junior year. But not #1 overall & taking him #1 overall did not change his chances of success.

That's what we're dealing with here. The closer we get to the draft it appears more "scouts" & NFL people are saying the same thing. A month ago Bridgewater was considered the 3rd best player in the draft, I'm seeing boards now where he's the 10th best.

If we pick up Cassel, or Mallet, I guarantee you he'll drop out of the top 10. It shouldn't have anything to do with it, Jacksonville should be in the market for a QB, but they're saying they are leaning towards DE. Cleveland might be looking for a QB, but everyone has them taking Manziel.

If you use the same criteria that you've always used to evaluate QBs for the draft, which include height, weight, arm strength, accuracy, pro offense, level of competition, stats, mechanics, etc... he doesn't "grade" out to be a #1 overall QB... not a top 5 NFL prospect. We have to ignore a lot, rationalize a lot to justify taking him #1 overall & that should be a big red flag.

Every time you say, "Yeah, but...." something's wrong. 1 or 2, ok. But 3 or 4... watch out. You're trying to make this guy something he's not & are liable to waste another 7 years to "figure out" he's not.

Dishman
02-17-2014, 11:29 AM
But Tom Brady is not 6'4" 211 & hasn't been for the last 14 seasons.

And you referred to him as frail, but hes really not, so its difficult to see what your point is here. Just like any other "frail" QB entering the league, Brady had a chance to improve himself with an NFL-level S&C program. He took advantage of that just like all QB prospects will have the opportunity to do once they are drafted.

You talk in circles which makes understanding your position on a subject quite difficult.

Playoffs
02-19-2014, 10:34 PM
Kiper: Five big questions for teams entering the combine
1. Could Houston's plans change with a great workout from Jadeveon Clowney or Greg Robinson? Maybe. I don't think it'll change their priorities, but it could help them shift demand. The best thing that can happen for Houston is for all the top players to have amazing workouts. Clowney and Robinson are No. 1 and No. 2 on my Big Board, respectively, not just because they are great players, but because I already know they are great athletes. Same for many teams. But if the workouts serve to do more, and if teams find them even more attractive as prospects coming out of Indy, Houston has greater trade leverage. The better everyone looks, the better it is to hold the No. 1 pick.

2. Any reason to think the Rams are looking at a QB at No. 2? No. The Rams need to take another step forward in 2014 given the personnel they have -- they have a lot of good players -- and there's no reason to believe a rookie starter at QB gives them a better chance in the NFC West than Sam Bradford, regardless of Bradford's up-and-down career so far. General manager Les Snead is likelier to trade the pick to someone who covets a QB than draft one himself in that slot.

3. Are the Jaguars trying to decide on a QB at No. 3? I'll put it this way: I think they're taking a really good look at this QB class. I think they'll do a lot of work on Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles and Teddy Bridgewater and decide if one or more of those can be a good long-range solution. That said, I think they'll do work on a number of QBs in this class, and it's still 50/50 if they draft their new QB at No. 3, because the new front office has shown me they want to take great football players, and I don't think they'll draft a QB if they have many players rated higher.

4. Should the Browns trade up in order to get their franchise QB? No. I realize that Cleveland needs a QB they feel they can build around, but I don't think you trade up from that high of a draft slot unless you have a certain upgrade at the position for the immediate future. This draft doesn't offer that promise.

5. Will the Raiders have the chance to take one of the top three QBs? If I had to bet, then yes, I think they will have the chance. But the Raiders are a team that should look to trade down, too. Just because a QB is there doesn't mean they draft one. They have needs all over the place.
Top five questions for players entering the combine
1. Will Clowney make himself irresistible at No. 1 by his combine workout? No. He is worthy of No. 1, but his great athletic traits are well known. Houston should hope someone else sees him as irresistible at No. 1, and offers them the moon to take him there. (Houston may prefer just to take him, of course.)

2. Do you really care that much about Mike Evans' 40 time? Yes. I had a friend in one front office tell me he feels Evans has the best ball skills he's seen in 20 years. I won't go that far, but If Evans shows off mid-4.4 speed, we'll have teams debating the top wide receiver in this draft between him and Watkins.

3. Which player could go from second-round status to the first round with a strong Combine workout? I'll give you three. Jarvis Landry, WR from LSU; Kelcy Quarles, DT/DE from South Carolina; Dee Ford, edge rusher from Auburn. There could be more, but those come to mind.

4. Your pick for biggest combine freak overall? I'll give you two. On offense, I think UNC tight end Eric Ebron could be a size/speed freak. On defense, I'll go with Khalil Mack.

5. Does Aaron Murray or Zach Mettenberger have a better chance to be an NFL starter? Mettenberger. When they are both healthy, Mettenberger simply has the superior arm, and despite less experience, is Murray's equal or better when it comes to anticipation, ball placement and polish.
Top five workout questions entering the Combine

1. Which measurement has become more important? Hand size for QBs. We're past the age of the "prototype" QB who has to be a certain height and weight. Many value other traits just as much, particularly athleticism. But you have to be able to grip the ball and drive it down the field either in the pocket or on the move, and hand size matters in that regard. You don't have to be a giant, but there's a minimum threshold you have to meet.

2. 40-yard dash: Your pick to be the fastest player here? I like several of the picks Todd made above. Archer, from Kent State, can fly. Roby from Ohio State and Purifoy of Florida could be at or near the top among corners, and if Oregon's Thomas gets a great jump, watch out. A sleeper pick might be Baylor running back Lache Seastrunk.

3. QB passing drills: Do they matter? No. It's nice to see a kid compete, but if you're reading a lot into a QB throwing certain routes to unfamiliar targets in an unfamiliar setting, you're reading too closely.

4. What's a "hot" measurement right now? An accurate measurement. Seriously -- every year guys go up and down 20 pounds or grow or shrink an inch based on previous listings. I know a lot about players through watching the tape, and talking to coaches and other evaluators at all levels. But you don't have accurate measurements until the combine, so those are the No. 1 thing I take from this. It's nice to verify.

5. What workout at the combine will matter most to the QB class? Interviews. There isn't a near-perfect QB prospect in this class. Teams need to believe these quarterbacks will put in the time to make themselves great.

bah007
02-20-2014, 08:05 AM
Are there people who really expect Evans to run under a 4.5?

He has great athleticism for his size but at 225 lbs I'm thinking he'll be right around 4.55, which is perfectly fine.

HOU-TEX
02-20-2014, 08:52 AM
Kiper: Five big questions for teams entering the combine

Top five questions for players entering the combine

Top five workout questions entering the Combine

I could not care less about anything Kiper says (yes, I know I'm in a Kiper thread. lol), but I think he and many others are putting way too much stock in the Combine.

It's been a while, but I once read a piece or a comment from a GM saying players rarely ever move UP their draft boards due to Combine performances. However, they could drop DOWN some due to medicals, interviews, etc. The drills do not mean a whole lot. It's merely a dog and pony show for the fans and media.

That is how I've felt about the Combine ever since hearing/reading that. There's weigh-ins, medicals and interviews. The rest is fluff

Playoffs
02-20-2014, 09:00 AM
Are there people who really expect Evans to run under a 4.5?

He has great athleticism for his size but at 225 lbs I'm thinking he'll be right around 4.55, which is perfectly fine.

Charles Davis to believe Evans can run an electric 40-yard dash time...

“I’ve been told — and we will see at the combine — that he could run a high 4.4 time. And if that’s the case, then game, set, match, off he goes.”

Playoffs
02-27-2014, 03:47 PM
Kiper on Colin Cowherd this morning said, "Johnny Manziel is still the consensus #1 overall quarterback."

Playoffs
03-01-2014, 10:34 AM
2/27 Big Board (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10526208/2014-nfl-draft-brandin-cooks-mike-evans-movers-mel-kiper-latest-big-board)
1Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 21DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-5WT: 266POS: DE

2Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 332POS: OT

3Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 251POS: OLB

4Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 211POS: WR

5Jake MatthewsAGE: 22DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 308POS: OT

6Mike Evans **AGE: 20DOB: 8/21/93HT: 6-5WT: 231POS: WR

7Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-7WT: 309POS: OT

8Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 250POS: TE

9Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-5WT: 255POS: DE

10Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-2WT: 214POS: QB

11Blake Bortles *AGE: 22DOB: 12/16/91HT: 6-5WT: 232POS: QB

12Johnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 207POS: QB

13C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 234POS: LB

14Justin GilbertAGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 202POS: CB

15Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-0WT: 192POS: WR

16Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 299POS: DT

17Brandin Cooks *AGE: 20DOB: 9/25/93HT: 5-10WT: 189POS: WR

18Darqueze DennardAGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 199POS: CB

19Zack MartinAGE: 23DOB: 11/20/90HT: 6-4WT: 308POS: OT

20Odell Beckham Jr. *AGE: 21DOB: 11/5/92HT: 5-11WT: 198POS: WR

21Aaron DonaldAGE: 22DOB: 5/23/91HT: 6-1WT: 285POS: DT

It's hard to be hotter as a prospect than Donald is right now. He leads the country in tackles for loss, then goes to Mobile and is a star at the Senior Bowl working against very good competition, then he goes to Indy and runs 4.65 in the 40 at 285 pounds, and also throws in 35 reps in the bench press for good measure. And on the combine totals, the athleticism and power match up perfectly with how he played all year, with a blend of quickness and power to run through and around blocks, creating constant problems for offenses. Now, he's a likely mid-first-round pick.

22Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/31/91HT: 6-2WT: 331POS: DT


23Calvin Pryor *AGE: 21DOB: 7/2/92HT: 5-11WT: 207POS: S


24Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 21DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S


25Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-1WT: 237POS: OLB

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhlcXilCAAA8Ql7.png

Playoffs
03-06-2014, 12:00 PM
6/3 update (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10560770/2014-nfl-draft-brandin-cooks-odell-beckham-rise-mel-kiper-latest-big-board)
1Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 21DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-5WT: 266POS: DE

2Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 332POS: OT

3Khalil MackAGE: 22DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 251POS: OLB

4Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 211POS: WR

5Jake MatthewsAGE: 22DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 308POS: OT

6Mike Evans **AGE: 20DOB: 8/21/93HT: 6-5WT: 231POS: WR

7Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-7WT: 309POS: OT

8Eric Ebron *AGE: 20DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 250POS: TE

9Anthony BarrAGE: 21DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-5WT: 255POS: DE

10Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-2WT: 214POS: QB

11Blake Bortles *AGE: 22DOB: 12/16/91HT: 6-5WT: 232POS: QB

12Johnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 207POS: QB

13C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 234POS: LB

14Justin GilbertAGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 202POS: CB

15Brandin Cooks *AGE: 20DOB: 9/25/93HT: 5-10WT: 189POS: WR

16Timmy Jernigan *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/92HT: 6-2WT: 299POS: DT

17Odell Beckham Jr. *AGE: 21DOB: 11/5/92HT: 5-11WT: 198POS: WR

18Darqueze DennardAGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 199POS: CB

19Zack MartinAGE: 23DOB: 11/20/90HT: 6-4WT: 308POS: OT

20Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-0WT: 192POS: WR

21Aaron DonaldAGE: 22DOB: 5/23/91HT: 6-1WT: 285POS: DT

22Louis Nix III *AGE: 22DOB: 7/31/91HT: 6-2WT: 331POS: DT

23Calvin Pryor *AGE: 21DOB: 7/2/92HT: 5-11WT: 207POS: S

24Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 21DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S

25Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-1WT: 237POS: OLB

TexansFTW
03-06-2014, 03:21 PM
It's kind of unusual for me how he has all 3 QBs right next to each other. It's like he couldn't find a place to put them and just put them all in one spot.

Kiper is so dumb. I guess most of his wild swings are over until next week when he likely shoots Donald up about 10 picks. That should be the last one unless something weird happens.

thunderkyss
03-06-2014, 05:08 PM
It's kind of unusual for me how he has all 3 QBs right next to each other. It's like he couldn't find a place to put them and just put them all in one spot.


If you could put all three of them together you'd have a prototypical QB. Bridgewater's precision, Bortles' size, Manziel's ... I don't know what you call it. But he's got it.

ObsiWan
03-06-2014, 05:13 PM
Kiper on Colin Cowherd this morning said, "Johnny Manziel is still the consensus #1 overall quarterback."

10 Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-2WT: 214POS: QB

11 Blake Bortles *AGE: 22DOB: 12/16/91HT: 6-5WT: 232POS: QB

12 Johnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 207POS: QB

...but... but... but, just last week you said....

ObsiWan
03-06-2014, 05:18 PM
It's kind of unusual for me how he has all 3 QBs right next to each other. It's like he couldn't find a place to put them and just put them all in one spot.

Kiper is so dumb. I guess most of his wild swings are over until next week when he likely shoots Donald up about 10 picks. That should be the last one unless something weird happens.

Just you wait! You'll see... Mel-Hair-Gel is smart!!
Remember how he right he was about Reggie Bush

...oh wait...

Well, he's better with QBs. what about how he called Brady Quinn being a superstar! Yeah, that's the guy he was real high on...

...oh crap...no wait...

ummm... just gimme a minute...

:kitten:

Playoffs
03-13-2014, 10:20 AM
Kiper media call today...

Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft
About 61 minutes.

That does it for the Kiper call. We now return you to your regularly scheduled inanity.

Kiper said Jarvis Landry was never going to be a speed guy. "He's sure handed, can play inside or outside. He's a two or three. Always been"

Kiper thinks the most underrated RB in the draft this year is Terrance West. He thinks he carried his team.

Kiper thinks five guards go in the second or early third, with Nevada's Joel Bitonio among them.

Kiper: I would not be surprised if 2016 if we're talking about him as a tight end.

Kiper on Logan Thomas: I he doesn't get it done at QB, then you could have a potential tight end on your hands.

Lol, Kiper rates Logan Thomas as a 4th or 5th rounder and could be a TE, but thinks there's a possibility he gets taken in the second round

Kiper thinks an interesting pick for Dallas is Anthony Barr. He'd be the only pass rusher in play for Dallas at No. 16.

Now Kiper wonders if AJ McCarron is a right-handed Matt Leinart.

Kiper said there isn't a better open-field tackler in the draft than CJ Mosley. He has him going No. 21 to Green Bay.

Kiper thinks Zack Martin of Notre Dame could be in the mix for Pittsburgh in the first round because of his versatility.

Kiper says Cyril Richardson has dropped into the fourth round mix.

Kiper doesn't think a guard goes in the first round. Mentions David Yankey as the first guard.

He thinks the Rams will be a "trending" team after the draft if they can keep Sam Bradford upright.

Kiper thinks the Rams could be active as well, moving down from No. 2 or up for No. 13.

He thinks teams could be on the move for LTs, WRs or a player like Eric Ebron.

Kiper thinks the Browns and Falcons could be active on trades during the draft.

Kiper just said Khalil Mack would be "a real nice pick" for Houston at No. 1.

Kiper thinks Michigan's Michael Schofield could be a starting RT in the NFL and a third or fourth round pick.

Kiper thinks top 10 is a little high for HaHa Clinton-Dix, who is more in the 12-25 range of the first round.

Even with Eric Decker, Kiper thinks the Jets could choose a WR in the 1st round.

Kiper says CB Walt Aikens really helped himself at the Senior Bowl and is in the third or fourth round range.

Kiper thinks Jace Amaro is a round two or three pick. 0_o

Kiper thinks Ss Clinton-Dix and Pryor are both first rounders, but Pryor is a fringe 1st. He thinks Deone Bucannon drops to the third round.

Kiper just dropped a nugget on Kendall James of Maine, his eighth rated CB. Called him the biggest sleeper CB in the draft.

Pointing out Greg Hardy, Jared Allen, Everson Griffen, Kiper says you don't have to take a pass rusher early if you scout well.

Kiper still sees Moncrief as an early second round pick, or possibly first to a team in the back end like Seattle or Carolina.

Kiper: Donte Moncrief is an enigma. You would have thought he dominated college corners. Didn't materialize into (a top 10 player).

Because of the disinterest in the position, Kiper thinks Mizzou RB Henry Josey could be a priority FA.

Kiper said the consensus from teams is that Kony Ealy is a fringe first round pick.

Kiper thinks the Lions should still be in play for Mike Evans, but a TE or a CB is possible if they're ranked that highly.

Kiper thinks Kyle Van Noy is as third rounder as a versatile LB and Cody Hoffman is an early Day 3 pick.

Kiper also mentioned AJ McCarron as a possibility for the Browns in the second round.

Kiper said if the Browns don't take a QB at four, Derek Carr or Jimmy Garoppolo could be in play at 26 or in the second round.

Kiper views WR Brandon Coleman as an early Day 3 pick in the draft.

Kiper has Tajh Boyd as a round 4-7 pick.

Kiper thinks Sammy Watkins No. 4, 5 or 7, depending on where the QBs land.

Kiper thinks Kony Ealy is a late 1, early 2. DeMarcus Lawrence is round three player for him.

Kiper said Ebron is a glorified wide receiver. "He's a threat a great, great receiving entity."

Kiper on Ebron and the Giants: They certainly could use an Eric Ebron. If he doesn't go 12, he could fall to 17.

In his latest mock draft, Kiper has Johnny Manziel No. 8 to Minnesota, but could see him go as high as three.

Kiper sees San Diego and New Orleans as spots for Auburn DE/OLB Dee Ford.

Kiper thinks that OT Greg Robinson will grade out as the top player on some teams' draft boards.

Kiper thinks Beckham is a 1st (KC or Clev., maybe NYJ), Jeremy Hill is a 4th or 5th rounder and Jarvis Landry a second rounder.

Kiper said Clowney is still a top three talent, but not to St. Louis. He thinks if Houston passes a team will want to trade with the Rams.

Kiper thinks round three or four for Bruce Ellington of South Carolina. Early Day 3 for CB Victor Hampton.
h
Hopping on a call with Mel Kiper at 9:30. If you're not a fan, you may want to unfollow until 11ish.

Playoffs
03-13-2014, 10:43 PM
Mock 3.0 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10601364/2014-nfl-draft-khalil-mack-goes-no-1-mel-kiper-mock-draft-30)
1. Houston Texans: LB Khalil Mack, Buffalo
The Texans are in some ways like Kansas City drafting at No. 1 last year in that they don't fit the profile of a team drafting so high. The personnel situation isn't terrible; the defense can keep them in games; they have a new head coach who has a good track record with quarterbacks and may not be content to wait on a rookie QB to develop when he could be winning. Mack is a fit in most systems, but he'd excel in this system as a pass-rusher and a player who can back up and make plays in space and to the edges. Houston hasn't been active in free agency, but Mack can fill a role and be a key contributor early for a team that can start winning again. And it's been almost a full year since a player from the MAC went No. 1, right?

2. St. Louis Rams: T Greg Robinson, Auburn
Even with the strange change of direction on Rodger Saffold, given the concerns about Jake Long's ability to stay healthy, starter ability at tackle is still a major question, and the Rams can't afford to be thin up front in 2014. I think this is an obvious spot where a trade could happen, but if you have the chance to draft a potential star at tackle in the same year you need to find out if the QB you've paid a lot of money is worth it, you may not want to overthink it. Robinson can be a special player, and the Rams would improve up front with him around, starting in Week 1.

3. Jacksonville Jaguars: DE Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
The Jags have done some work in free agency, with the addition of versatile defensive lineman Red Bryant among the notables. And while they need a quarterback, I don't think they'd pass on the most talented player in the draft if he's around at No. 3. The Jags decided to re-sign Chad Henne, and while I don't think they did so based on the idea he's an immovable object at starter, I do think they believe they can win football games with him starting if they improve everywhere else. And Clowney certainly improves a pass rush that we've been talking about as a draft priority for way too long.

4. Cleveland Browns: QB Blake Bortles, UCF
The Browns have already released Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell. In other words, the writing is on the wall and the depth chart has a pretty big vacancy. So they'll keep Brian Hoyer as a possible starter and draft a QB at this spot knowing it's not such a bad place for a young QB to succeed, given their ability to pass-block up front and the fact that they have some dangerous weapons in the passing game in Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron. Yes, I can see either Teddy Bridgewater or Johnny Manziel here, but this is a bet on where the Browns end up after evaluating all of them closely.

5. Oakland Raiders: QB Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
The Raiders are actively trying to improve the offensive line in free agency, the Rodger Saffold soap opera not withstanding. Austin Howard is the one name in the fold so far. This is a possible trade-down slot given the many personnel needs this team still has, but it'd be hard to pass on the most NFL-ready QB in the draft, and a player who could help turn the franchise around. The current QB depth chart in Oakland simply doesn't promise much, so Bridgewater has the potential to play early and not just survive, but change the fortunes and direction of the franchise.

6. Atlanta Falcons: T Jake Matthews, Texas A&M

7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson

8. Minnesota Vikings: QB Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
As I talk to teams, I get the sense there's a great deal of uncertainty around the quarterbacks in this draft. But there's a point where uncertainty turns into a reasonable bet, and Manziel at this point on the board is closer to the latter. There are some decent weapons in place in Minnesota for Manziel. There's a great deal of uncertainty on the defensive side of the ball here, but it doesn't outweigh the questions at QB. Manziel could be the solution and, drafted here, there's no question he'd come in with a chip on his shoulder.

9. Buffalo Bills: T Taylor Lewan, Michigan

10. Detroit Lions: WR Mike Evans, Texas A&M

11. Tennessee Titans: OLB Anthony Barr, UCLA

12. New York Giants: TE Eric Ebron, UNC

13. St. Louis Rams: S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Alabama

14. Chicago Bears: DT Aaron Donald, Pitt

15. Pittsburgh Steelers: CB Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State

16. Dallas Cowboys: DT Timmy Jernigan, Florida State

17. Baltimore Ravens: WR Brandin Cooks, Oregon State

18. New York Jets: WR Odell Beckham Jr., LSU

19. Miami Dolphins: T Zack Martin, Notre Dame

20. Arizona Cardinals: CB Darqueze Dennard, Michigan State

21. Green Bay Packers: LB C.J. Mosley, Alabama

22. Philadelphia Eagles: S Calvin Pryor, Louisville

23. Kansas City Chiefs: WR Marqise Lee, USC

24. Cincinnati Bengals: LB Ryan Shazier, Ohio State

25. San Diego Chargers: CB Bradley Roby, Ohio State

26. Cleveland Browns: WR Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State

27. New Orleans Saints: DE Dee Ford, Auburn

28. Carolina Panthers: T Cyrus Kouandijo, Alabama

29. New England Patriots: DT Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota

30. San Francisco 49ers: CB Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech

31. Denver Broncos: LB Chris Borland, Wisconsin

32. Seattle Seahawks: DE Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame

beerlover
03-14-2014, 11:53 PM
Kiper On Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel: “You could put him at three; you could put him at four; you could put him at five; you could put him at eight. I put him at eight to Minnesota. I doesn't look like Houston, right now, will go that route. He’s fluid anywhere between the third pick and the eighth pick.”

Playoffs
03-16-2014, 03:00 PM
Rotoworld NFL Draft ‏@Rotoworld_Draft
Kiper still has Bama OT Kouandjio in Round 1 http://dlvr.it/58x9nJ

Kiper: Lewan could have been top OT in 2013 http://dlvr.it/58wqDw

Kiper: Jaguarss won't pass on DE Clowney at No. 3 http://dlvr.it/58wRr7

thunderkyss
03-16-2014, 05:36 PM
Rotoworld NFL Draft ‏@Rotoworld_DraftKiper: Jaguarss won't pass on DE Clowney at No. 3 http://dlvr.it/58wRr7


More "evidence" to the strength of the QBs in this class. They've traded Gabbert away & signed Henne... but they'll pass on Bridgewater/Bortles/Manziel something not right.

bah007
03-16-2014, 06:51 PM
More "evidence" to the strength of the QBs in this class. They've traded Gabbert away & signed Henne... but they'll pass on Bridgewater/Bortles/Manziel something not right.

History would suggest that following Jacksonville's lead in the draft is not a very good idea.

That's not to say that this is a great QB class because it isn't. But I wouldn't use other teams' evaluations to make my decisions.

noxiousdog
03-17-2014, 12:30 AM
And they aren't necessarily signing Henne to be a starter. It's not starter money for sure.

infantrycak
03-17-2014, 01:06 AM
And they aren't necessarily signing Henne to be a starter. It's not starter money for sure.

It's for sure not backup money either. $5 mil is way more than a typical backup.

TexansFTW
03-17-2014, 09:22 AM
More "evidence" to the strength of the QBs in this class. They've traded Gabbert away & signed Henne... but they'll pass on Bridgewater/Bortles/Manziel something not right.

Quoting Mel Kiper and using him as 'evidence' is a slippery slope. He blows in the wind every gust that comes through. I think he's one of the least credible sources to use to validate a point.

thunderkyss
03-17-2014, 09:43 AM
And they aren't necessarily signing Henne to be a starter. It's not starter money for sure.

So they are signaling that they'll take a starter in the first & Kiper still has them not taking one of the "big three"

Quoting Mel Kiper and using him as 'evidence' is a slippery slope.

Yeah... in my defense, I did use quotation marks ("evidence")

TexansFTW
03-17-2014, 09:45 AM
So they are signaling that they'll take a starter in the first & Kiper still has them not taking one of the "big three"



Yeah... in my defense, I did use quotation marks ("evidence")

Good call. I didn't even notice the quotations. Carry on then.

noxiousdog
03-17-2014, 11:49 AM
It's for sure not backup money either. $5 mil is way more than a typical backup.

Eh, there's only 4.5 guaranteed. Veteran backups run in that area if you are talking about guys that have been starters at some point. Fitzpatrick got a little less than than from the Titans last year. Chase Daniel is on the books for 3.4M this year. Kyle Orton is 5M on the salary cap (assuming he's not cut).

On the other hand McCown got 500k from the Bears last year and 5M from the Bucs to be a starter.

My guess would be if the Jag's draft a QB at 3, Henne doesn't start. If they wait until round 2 or later, he'll be a starter for some of the year, but is unlikely to be the guy by week 8 (barring injury of course). He's also unlikely to get the second year as he is more expensive than normal.

Playoffs
03-17-2014, 01:06 PM
So they are signaling that they'll take a starter in the first & Kiper still has them not taking one of the "big three"


If Clowney is at 3 and the Jags aren't smart enough to take him they will be inundated with juicy trade offers.

Playoffs
03-24-2014, 11:20 AM
Kiper: Garoppolo has most upside of all QBs (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/132436/jimmy-garoppolo)
ESPN's Mel Kiper believes Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo has the most upside of any prospect at the position.

"The reason I say upside is because if he would have put him in a major college program, where would he rank? Probably top five or top 10," Kiper said, adding Garoppolo has a super quick release. Rotoworld's Josh Norris also lists Garoppolo as his fifth quarterback, but questions his feet in the pocket and specifically under pressure. Kiper believes Garoppolo could go a bit later than he should due to playing in the FCS.

Playoffs
04-03-2014, 10:28 AM
Kiper's 'Grade: A' draft (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10703188/2014-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-makes-picks-gm-every-nfl-team?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_KiperGradeA2014)
For this, I'm the GM -- for every team. Typically I'm asked to project picks. But for the "Grade A" draft, I make them. Each pick I select what I might for that team, in that spot, based on who is gone and who is available. Best outcome for each team at each spot.

The ground rules

1. At each slot, I make a pick in the best interest of only the team with the pick. I won't pass on a player at No. 5 just because I like how he fits better at No. 7.
2. There are no trades. I note team needs, but not all picks are specifically to hit a need -- same as the draft.
3. This is NOT A PROJECTION. It's more a look at how I currently value players at each slot.

You'll find the roundup for each team's draft haul below, but I've also included a pick-by-pick version so you can see how the order of the picks progressed and get an idea of who was off the board when each team selected.

Pick-by-pick Rounds 1 through 3.
***************************
Houston Texans

Top needs: QB, RT, OLB/DE

Round 1 (Pick No. 1) DE Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
Round 2 (33) QB Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
Round 3 (65) CB Bashaud Breeland, Clemson

Analysis: Quarterback is obviously a big need, but I'm simply not willing to forgo the high likelihood of stardom for Clowney -- at a critical position no less -- for the risk associated with taking one of the available quarterbacks so high. It's simply too big a leap in terms of value on my draft board. I'm not going to worry about system fit. Romeo Crennel and Bill O'Brien are smart enough to find a way for Clowney to be effective -- and he will be special. I consider Garoppolo a potential NFL starter, possibly a good one with O'Brien's guidance, and with one star in hand I'll take him ahead of Derek Carr early in Round 2. It's a little ahead of where I have him rated overall, but again, the value associated with the position is factored in against scarcity, and I take my shot. Cornerback isn't a huge need, but I like value for Breeland there, and it's impossible to have too many effective corners in the NFL of 2014. I think the pick at No. 1 represents not just how special Clowney is, but that this team is too good on paper to be waiting on a rookie to develop on the job. Take one at No. 1, and that's what you get.
...

michaelm
04-03-2014, 10:33 AM
Pick-by-pick Rounds 1 through 3.
***************************
Houston Texans

Top needs: QB, RT, OLB/DE

Round 1 (Pick No. 1) DE Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
Round 2 (33) QB Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
Round 3 (65) CB Bashaud Breeland, Clemson


I don't know much about Breeland, but I am on board with the first two picks.

thunderkyss
04-03-2014, 10:54 AM
Kiper's 'Grade: A' draftAnalysis: Quarterback is obviously a big need, but I'm simply not willing to forgo the high likelihood of stardom for Clowney -- at a critical position no less -- for the risk associated with taking one of the available quarterbacks so high. It's simply too big a leap in terms of value on my draft board. I'm not going to worry about system fit. Romeo Crennel and Bill O'Brien are smart enough to find a way for Clowney to be effective -- and he will be special. I consider Garoppolo a potential NFL starter, possibly a good one with O'Brien's guidance, and with one star in hand I'll take him ahead of Derek Carr early in Round 2. It's a little ahead of where I have him rated overall, but again, the value associated with the position is factored in against scarcity, and I take my shot. Cornerback isn't a huge need, but I like value for Breeland there, and it's impossible to have too many effective corners in the NFL of 2014. I think the pick at No. 1 represents not just how special Clowney is, but that this team is too good on paper to be waiting on a rookie to develop on the job. Take one at No. 1, and that's what you get.
... (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10703188/2014-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-makes-picks-gm-every-nfl-team?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_KiperGradeA2014)

I'm not really a Kiper fan, but I do appreciate the way he explains his rationalizations throughout the article.

HOU-TEX
04-03-2014, 11:03 AM
Kiper's 'Grade: A' draft (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10703188/2014-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-makes-picks-gm-every-nfl-team?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_KiperGradeA2014)

I don't know much about Breeland, but I am on board with the first two picks.

I borderline despise Kiper, but I can dig the first 2 picks as well

Playoffs
04-03-2014, 11:36 AM
I have this feeling we're going to be a bit blindsided by who OB tabs at QB if we go elsewhere at 1-1. I'm not seeing Garopolo.

Breeland I highlighted as a later round pick. Perhaps he'll rise, but I'd like to see who's available there at 3-1. I do like adding a CB. I'd draft one every year.

Kiper is becoming more annoying, as he does when drafts approach. Everything has to be to the nth degree -- screaming louder, future Hall of Famer, total bust... headline seeking adjectives. Pish.

PapaL
04-03-2014, 11:44 AM
I have this feeling we're going to be a bit blindsided by who OB tabs at QB if we go elsewhere at 1-1. I'm not seeing Garopolo.

Breeland I highlighted as a later round pick. Perhaps he'll rise, but I'd like to see who's available there at 3-1. I do like adding a CB. I'd draft one every year.

Kiper is becoming more annoying, as he does when drafts approach. Everything has to be to the nth degree -- screaming louder, future Hall of Famer, total bust... headline seeking adjectives. Pish.

Who are you thinking? The only QB that could blind side me would be Carr.

BullNation4Life
04-03-2014, 11:46 AM
Just you wait! You'll see... Mel-Hair-Gel is smart!!
Remember how he right he was about Reggie Bush

...oh wait...

Well, he's better with QBs. what about how he called Brady Quinn being a superstar! Yeah, that's the guy he was real high on...

...oh crap...no wait...

ummm... just gimme a minute...

:kitten:

remember that time when Mel said that, heh, heh, that JaMarcus Russell would become an elite, top 5 QB for the Raiders with in his first 3 years?

Remember...remember that?


That was awesome....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubYpplmzVk

Playoffs
04-03-2014, 12:13 PM
Who are you thinking? The only QB that could blind side me would be Carr.

I don't know, just have a feeling OB will surprise us.

kingtexan
04-04-2014, 09:22 AM
Who are you thinking? The only QB that could blind side me would be Carr.

If Carr is there at 2.1 you take him ... no brainer from a strictly football perspective. He has genuine exceptional arm talent and ... this just in ... he is not his brother. I am of the thought though that even David could have been a very good if not great QB except he was thrown to the wolves behind a horrible line, and then there is the Chris Palmer factor.

I think he was so shell shocked after the first year or two he never recovered mentally. We will never know what he could of been in my opinion, and based on talent alone I would give his little brother a chance.

If Carr is there at 2.1 you have to take him ...

infantrycak
04-04-2014, 09:34 AM
If Carr is there at 2.1 you take him ... no brainer from a strictly football perspective. He has genuine exceptional arm talent and ... this just in ... he is not his brother. I am of the thought though that even David could have been a very good if not great QB except he was thrown to the wolves behind a horrible line, and then there is the Chris Palmer factor.

I think he was so shell shocked after the first year or two he never recovered mentally. We will never know what he could of been in my opinion, and based on talent alone I would give his little brother a chance.

If Carr is there at 2.1 you have to take him ...

#1 - it ain't happening.

#2 - there are a lot of key similarities to his brother. He does some things better - better long ball placement and he knows not to run out of bounds behind the LOS. Overall they are very similar on and more importantly off the field. Both big arms and athletic but not smart on the move. Both feel pressure early and check down frequently. Like his brother he is coming into the NFL with a full on family and it appears like his brother they are likely to turn out to be the focus of his life over football. He also has the societal "be apart from the world" issues which kept David from being tight with the team.

His talent isn't sufficient to have him sniffing the top of the draft and together with his family issues and team history his talent isn't enough to separate him from other options who don't carry such concerns. I'd rather have an 80% guy who is 100% committed than a 100% guy who is 80% committed.

kingtexan
04-04-2014, 09:59 AM
I'd rather have an 80% guy who is 100% committed than a 100% guy who is 80% committed.

I can see that train of thought.

You and I differ on the family aspect, because as someone who was married very young, sometimes it gives you a motivation like no other to succeed ... for your family. I do however see your point that it would probably prevent him from being a part of off the field things that leads to a closer relationship with teammates.

Mute point because he wont be there. Someone will take him in the 1st. I wouldn't mind seeing us wait until a later round and try the kid from LSU. To me in this draft you either hit or miss. No QB worth 1.1 unless you believe JFF will be the same in the NFL as he was in college. All the others IMO are six of one and a half dozen of another when it comes to whether or not they will be productive NFL quality talent.

_King_
04-04-2014, 11:01 AM
moot

thunderkyss
04-04-2014, 11:18 AM
I can see that train of thought.

You and I differ on the family aspect, because as someone who was married very young, sometimes it gives you a motivation like no other to succeed ... for your family. I do however see your point that it would probably prevent him from being a part of off the field things that leads to a closer relationship with teammates.


You're missing the whole point. I don't know if you were around here during the Carr years, but that was a big topic of debate. He needed to get better. Somehow or another the idea was getting passed around here, that instead of being the first in & first out, he was at home with the wife & kids being a good dad.

The two need not be mutually exclusive. I'm sure if you ask Peyton or Brees, they'll tell you they put family before football. But for them, being the best they can be (whether we're talking about being a QB, keeping your word, delivering for your teammates, whatever) is doing it for their family.

& if you haven't learned yet, you will soon find out it's not about quantity, it's quality. Spending time with your kids, doing things with your family, being a part of their lives... it's more about the quality of the time you spend with them, not the quantity. Getting both... great.

But we're talking about football. 6 months out of the year, we want him to be the best football player he can be. The other six months he can spend exclusively with the wife & kids for all I care.

And a big part of the Carr family thing is the dad, Roger (I think). He's going to be part of the package deal & if David doesn't get a gig, so will he. That's the kind of circus I don't want.

kingtexan
04-04-2014, 11:46 AM
You're missing the whole point.

Need to get your ESP fixed ... Since you just described exactly what I meant.

David may not have spent the time, but that doesn't mean Derek wont ... THAT was my point.

Having a family for David apparently meant being at home with them. Having a family for some (like myself) means sacrificing every waking hour to perfect your craft so that you and your family may reap the rewards of that dedication and hard work down the line. Maybe Derek goes about it in that manner after watching what happened to his brother. Does anyone really think after what happened to David, that Roger will act the same way or that Derek will follow the same path? That really makes no sense to me.

The Pencil Neck
04-04-2014, 11:59 AM
Personally, I wouldn't mind Derek Carr at 2-1 too much. He's not my first choice and frankly, it would be hard for me to expect good things from him.

I don't want him in the first round and I'd really prefer someone like Garoppolo or Mettenberger even with their shortcomings.

JB
04-04-2014, 12:06 PM
Does anyone really think after what happened to David, that Roger will act the same way or that Derek will follow the same path? That really makes no sense to me.


What have your seen or what makes you think he won't?

kingtexan
04-04-2014, 12:51 PM
What have your seen or what makes you think he won't?

What have you seen that makes you think he will?

You been keeping up with him since DC left?

C'mon people ... at least try and ask intelligent questions.

BullNation4Life
04-04-2014, 01:31 PM
Personally, I wouldn't mind Derek Carr at 2-1 too much. He's not my first choice and frankly, it would be hard for me to expect good things from him.

I don't want him in the first round and I'd really prefer someone like Garoppolo or Mettenberger even with their shortcomings.

Been watching some footage on Tom Savage, kid has got a gun and has the size...The accuracy seems to be his big knock...

JB
04-04-2014, 01:38 PM
What have you seen that makes you think he will?

You been keeping up with him since DC left?

C'mon people ... at least try and ask intelligent questions.

I was asking a question because you made an assertion as if it was fact. Stop throwing spitballs because you think you are so intelligent. Back up your statements with something resembling intelligence instead of acting like no one has a clue because they may or may not agree with you. I never asserted my opinion one way or the other. Just asking for you to back up yours. Is that so hard for you?

_King_
04-04-2014, 01:43 PM
I like Derek Carr.

Aside from the physical tools, I watched some clips and some interviews of him and he seems to be a little less 'smiley' than David. He seems more serious. Seems like he's passionate about becoming a great QB.

I watched a highlight video and I saw him leading the team before the game...getting them ready to play.

I don't think of David when I see him. Aside from the physical tools.

I think Derek absolutely can be more productive than David ever was. Eli isn't Peyton and Derek isn't David. Marcus isn't Michael.

Matter of fact...look at your siblings. I'm pretty sure most have brothers or sisters with different strengths/weaknesses than them.

The Pencil Neck
04-04-2014, 02:00 PM
I'm pretty sure most have brothers or sisters with different strengths/weaknesses than them.

No one in my family has weaknesses.

:swatter:

JB
04-04-2014, 02:11 PM
From a link Arlington Texan posted in another thread

Derek Carr, 6-2, 215, Fresno State

“He’s a system guy; that’s it,” the NFC personnel man said. “No, he’s not as good as is brother (David, a No. 1 pick of Houston in 2002).”

“He’s tougher than his brother,” the AFC executive said. “He can be a starter in the league.”

“Not bad,” the NFC scout said. “But not as good as his brother.”

link (http://www.nj.com/times-sports/index.ssf/2014/03/eckel_three_personnel_men_try.html)

bah007
04-04-2014, 02:21 PM
I do think Derek is tougher than David. But I don't think he is as talented.

Not sure which combo leads to a better career.

kingtexan
04-04-2014, 03:59 PM
I was asking a question because you made an assertion as if it was fact. Stop throwing spitballs because you think you are so intelligent. Back up your statements with something resembling intelligence instead of acting like no one has a clue because they may or may not agree with you. I never asserted my opinion one way or the other. Just asking for you to back up yours. Is that so hard for you?

Asking someone to back up what? That someone may or may not behave in a certain manner?

Let me see if I can find the Roger Carr's Psychological State link ... or possibly that new report Behaviorism in Modern Society Details Roger Carr ...

How can anyone back up an opinion that "maybe" that family learned from David's failure?

Funny ...

infantrycak
04-04-2014, 04:02 PM
Asking someone to back up what? That someone may or may not behave in a certain manner?

Let me see if I can find the Roger Carr's Psychological State link ... or possibly that new report Behaviorism in Modern Society Details Roger Carr ...

How can anyone back up an opinion that "maybe" that family learned from David's failure?

Funny ...

It isn't unreasonable to ask for any reason or evidence for why you think he has changed. Sounds like the answer is you hope he has.

JB
04-04-2014, 05:50 PM
It isn't unreasonable to ask for any reason or evidence for why you think he has changed. Sounds like the answer is you hope he has.

Used to be you were able to ask why someone held a certain opinion. I know it's the offseason but damn. It's changed a lot around here recently. Now you have to provide evidence of why you would ask the question...

kingtexan
04-05-2014, 06:28 PM
Used to be you were able to ask why someone held a certain opinion. I know it's the offseason but damn. It's changed a lot around here recently. Now you have to provide evidence of why you would ask the question...

You would almost think a lawyer ran things around here ...

JB
04-05-2014, 06:33 PM
You would almost think a lawyer ran things around here ...


Strange tho it is to say it, it's a lawyer that keeps this place from disintegrating into total chaos

kingtexan
04-05-2014, 06:39 PM
Strange tho it is to say it, it's a lawyer that keeps this place from disintegrating into total chaos

Ever been in a Harris County courtroom? Lots of lawyers, a judge, couple of cops, and still total chaos ...

Maybe we are just well behaved. :shades:

Playoffs
04-10-2014, 02:44 PM
Big Board (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10757567/2014-nfl-draft-byu-linebacker-kyle-van-noy-debuts-mel-kiper-big-board)

1Jadeveon Clowney *AGE: 21DOB: 2/14/93HT: 6-5WT: 266POS: DE

2Greg Robinson **AGE: 21DOB: 10/21/92HT: 6-5WT: 332POS: OT

3Khalil MackAGE: 23DOB: 2/22/91HT: 6-3WT: 251POS: OLB

4Sammy Watkins *AGE: 20DOB: 6/14/93HT: 6-1WT: 211POS: WR

5Jake MatthewsAGE: 22DOB: 2/11/92HT: 6-5WT: 308POS: OT

6Taylor LewanAGE: 22DOB: 7/21/91HT: 6-7WT: 309POS: OT

7Mike Evans **AGE: 20DOB: 8/21/93HT: 6-5WT: 231POS: WR

8Eric Ebron *AGE: 21DOB: 4/10/93HT: 6-4WT: 250POS: TE

9C.J. MosleyAGE: 21DOB: 6/19/92HT: 6-2WT: 234POS: LB

10Teddy Bridgewater *AGE: 21DOB: 11/10/92HT: 6-2WT: 214POS: QB

11Blake Bortles *AGE: 22DOB: 12/16/91HT: 6-5WT: 232POS: QB

12Johnny Manziel **AGE: 21DOB: 12/6/92HT: 6-0WT: 207POS: QB

13Zack MartinAGE: 23DOB: 11/20/90HT: 6-4WT: 308POS: OT

14Aaron DonaldAGE: 22DOB: 5/23/91HT: 6-1WT: 285POS: DT

15Anthony BarrAGE: 22DOB: 3/18/92HT: 6-5WT: 255POS: DE

16Brandin Cooks *AGE: 20DOB: 9/25/93HT: 5-10WT: 189POS: WR

17Odell Beckham Jr. *AGE: 21DOB: 11/5/92HT: 5-11WT: 198POS: WR

18Justin GilbertAGE: 22DOB: 11/7/91HT: 6-0WT: 202POS: CB

19Darqueze DennardAGE: 22DOB: 10/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 199POS: CB

20Ha Ha Clinton-Dix *AGE: 21DOB: 12/21/92HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: S

21Ryan Shazier *AGE: 21DOB: 9/6/92HT: 6-1WT: 237POS: OLB

22Calvin Pryor *AGE: 21DOB: 7/2/92HT: 5-11WT: 207POS: S

23Marqise Lee *AGE: 22DOB: 11/25/91HT: 6-0WT: 192POS: WR

24Chris Borland AGE: 23DOB: 4/2/91HT: 5-11WT: 248POS: ILB

25Kyle Van NoyAGE: 23DOB: 3/26/91HT: 6-3WT: 245POS: OLB


Top 10s (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10757847/2014-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-updates-list-top-nfl-prospects-every-position)
Quarterbacks

1. *Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
2. *Blake Bortles, Central Florida
3. **Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
4. Derek Carr, Fresno St.
5. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
6. AJ McCarron, Alabama
7. Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech
8. Zach Mettenberger, LSU
9. Aaron Murray, Georgia
10. Tom Savage, Pittsburgh

Running backs

1. Carlos Hyde, Ohio St.
2. *Bishop Sankey, Washington
3. *Tre Mason, Auburn
4. **Jeremy Hill, LSU
5. Dri Archer, Kent St.
6. Charles Sims, West Virginia
7. Andre Williams, Boston College
8. *De'Anthony Thomas, Oregon
9. *Lache Seastrunk, Baylor
10. Jerick McKinnon, Georgia Southern

Wide receivers

1. *Sammy Watkins, Clemson
2. **Mike Evans, Texas A&M
3. *Brandin Cooks, Oregon St.
4. *Odell Beckham, Jr., LSU
5. *Marqise Lee, USC
6. **Kelvin Benjamin, Florida St.
7. **Davante Adams, Fresno St.
8. *Cody Latimer, Indiana
9. *Bruce Ellington, South Carolina
10. *Jarvis Landry, LSU

Tight ends

1. *Eric Ebron, North Carolina
2. *Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
3. *Troy Niklas, Notre Dame
4. *Jace Amaro, Texas Tech
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz, Iowa
6. *A.C. Leonard, Tennessee St.
7. Marcel Jensen, Fresno St.
8. *Colt Lyerla, Oregon
9. *Jake Murphy, Utah
10. Joe Don Duncan, Dixie St.

Offensive tackles

1. *Greg Robinson, Auburn
2. Jake Matthews, Texas A&M
3. Taylor Lewan, Michigan
4. Zack Martin, Notre Dame
5. *Cyrus Kouandjio, Alabama
6. Ja'Wuan James, Tennessee
7. Morgan Moses, Virginia
8. Jack Mewhort, Ohio St.
9. Billy Turner, North Dakota St.
10. *Antonio Richardson, Tennessee

Offensive guards

1. Gabe Jackson, Mississippi St.
2. *David Yankey, Stanford
3. *Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA
4. Joel Bitonio, Nevada
5. Brandon Thomas, Clemson
6. **Trai Turner, LSU
7. Kadeem Edwards, Tennessee St.
8. Cyril Richardson, Baylor
9. Ryan Groy, Wisconsin
10. Dakota Dozier, Furman

Centers

1. *Marcus Martin, USC
2. Weston Richburg, Colorado St.
3. *Russell Bodine, North Carolina
4. Travis Swanson, Arkansas
5. Jonotthan Harrison, Florida
6. Gabe Ikard, Oklahoma
7. James Stone, Tennessee
8. Bryan Stork, Florida St.
9. Corey Linsley, Ohio St.
10. Tyler Larsen, Utah St.

Defensive ends

1. *Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
2. *Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame
3. *Demarcus Lawrence, Boise St.
4. Marcus Smith, Louisville
5. *Kony Ealy, Missouri
6. Kareem Martin, North Carolina
7. *Scott Crichton, Oregon St.
8. Chris Smith, Arkansas
9. Larry Webster, Bloomsburg
10. Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas

Defensive tackles

1. Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh
2. *Timmy Jernigan, Pittsburgh
3. Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota
4. *Louis Nix III, Notre Dame
5. Brent Urban, Virginia
6. *Dominique Easley, Florida
7. DaQuan Jones, Penn St.
8. Justin Ellis, Louisiana Tech
9. Caraun Reid, Princeton
10. Jay Bromley, Syracuse

Inside linebackers

1. C.J. Mosley, Alabama
2. Chris Borland, Wisconsin
3. Shayne Skov, Stanford
4. Preston Brown, Louisville
5. Max Bullough, Michigan St.
6. Avery Williamson, Kentucky
7. *Khairi Fortt, California
8. *Yawin Smallwood, Connecticut
9. DeDe Lattimore, South Florida
10. Glenn Carson, Penn St.

Outside linebackers

1. Khalil Mack, Buffalo
2. Anthony Barr, UCLA
3. *Ryan Shazier, Ohio St.
4. Kyle Van Noy, BYU
5. Dee Ford, Auburn
6. Jeremiah Attaochu, Georgia Tech
7. Trent Murphy, Stanford
8. Telvin Smith, Florida St.
9. Jordan Tripp, Montana
10. Howard Jones, Shepherd

Cornerbacks

1. Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma St.
2. Darqueze Dennard, Michigan St.
3. Jason Verrett, TCU
4. *Bradley Roby, Ohio St.
5. Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
6. Lamarcus Joyner, Florida St.
7. Stanley Jean-Baptiste, Nebraska
8. Keith McGill, Utah
9. Aaron Colvin, Oklahoma
10. Pierre Desir, Lindenwood

Safeties

1. *Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Alabama
2. *Calvin Pryor, Louisville
3. Jimmie Ward, No. Illinois
4. Terrence Brooks, Florida St.
5. Deone Bucannon, Washington St.
6. Ahmad Dixon, Baylor
7. Maurice Alexander, Utah St.
8. *Ed Reynolds, Stanford
9. Antone Exum, Virginia Tech
10. Daniel Sorensen, BYU