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View Full Version : Poll: WILL McNair fire Kubiak?


Marcus
12-04-2013, 01:39 PM
Read it carefully now.....

It's not SHOULD he fire him?

The question is, do you think he WILL fire him?

I'll start it off and say no, for the following reasons.

1) He always takes into account the amount of injuries.
2) He considers Kubiak to be the best in the business in bringing along QBs.
3) The stroke gave him a get-out-of-jail-free card.

PapaL
12-04-2013, 01:39 PM
You forgot the poll.

Yes.

TexansSeminole
12-04-2013, 01:40 PM
Yes, Kubiak is done.

2slik4u
12-04-2013, 01:41 PM
Read it carefully now.....

It's not SHOULD he fire him?

The question is, do you think he WILL fire him?

I'll start it off and say no, for the following reasons.

1) He always takes into account the amount of injuries.
2) He considers Kubiak to be the best in the business in bringing along QBs.
3) The stroke gave him a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Yes he will fire him. It is blatantly obvious around the country that the fans have turned on kubiak and the Texans. Media blasts him daily. When you start to lose your fan base the that typically equates to lost revenues. At the end of the day Bob is a money man which is why he bought a team.

Kubiak will be fired because he has lost 10 in a row in a season that we were pegged as many as contenders for the Super Bowl.

Marcus
12-04-2013, 01:41 PM
You forgot the poll.

I hate it when that happens. :gun: and there's no way I can correct it.

Edit: Maybe a mod can bail me out. :)

infantrycak
12-04-2013, 01:50 PM
I hate it when that happens. :gun: and there's no way I can correct it.

Edit: Maybe a mod can bail me out. :)

Not an option to my knowledge. Start up a new one with a poll and I will merge this into it.

2012Champs
12-04-2013, 01:53 PM
I dont think Gary gets the axe.

Dutchrudder
12-04-2013, 01:55 PM
I think the question everyone wants to know is if it's more likely Kubiak will be fired or Mack Brown. Start a poll about that, I bet people will like it.

TheIronDuke
12-04-2013, 01:59 PM
I sincerely believe we are stuck with Kubes and Rick Smith and will be sick when and if they are both retained. I will seriously consider getting my Texans tat covered up if that happens.

Marcus
12-04-2013, 02:09 PM
Read carefully now...

It's not SHOULD fire him.

The question is, do you think he WILL fire him?

DX-TEX
12-04-2013, 02:11 PM
Call me wishy washy, not a real fan or whatever....but if Kubiak is retained after this debacle I am done with this team

houstonspartan
12-04-2013, 02:11 PM
Yes he will fire him. It is blatantly obvious around the country that the fans have turned on kubiak and the Texans. Media blasts him daily. When you start to lose your fan base the that typically equates to lost revenues. At the end of the day Bob is a money man which is why he bought a team.

Kubiak will be fired because he has lost 10 in a row in a season that we were pegged as many as contenders for the Super Bowl.

Your comments are interesting, because I've disagreed with people who say that the fans have no power. Of course we do. The Texans will likely lose money next year because they can't raise ticket prices even a penny because of Gary Kubiak. That's real world, hard core, logic and economics.

However, emotion can sometimes trump economics. As much as I think Kubiak should be fired, McNair has a deep affinity for the guy. I have seen people in the workplace that were totally incompetent slide by because someone liked them.

Kubiak should be fired, but, McNair really likes the guy. It's emotional for him. McNair cares less about winning a Super Bowl than he does about his relationship with Gary Kubiak.

Marcus
12-04-2013, 02:14 PM
Not an option to my knowledge. Start up a new one with a poll and I will merge this into it.

Done cak. And thanks.

HOU-TEX
12-04-2013, 02:16 PM
Imo, it would be very very hard for McNair to keep Kubiak. The negative outpour towards the Texans would be monumental. McNair has shown how loyal he is towards his people....so, who knows

I do, however, think he'll hold on to Smith. But, that wasn't what this thread's about

infantrycak
12-04-2013, 02:19 PM
Your comments are interesting, because I've disagreed with people who say that the fans have no power. Of course we do. The Texans will likely lose money next year because they can't raise ticket prices even a penny because of Gary Kubiak. That's real world, hard core, logic and economics.

However, emotion can sometimes trump economics. As much as I think Kubiak should be fired, McNair has a deep affinity for the guy. I have seen people in the workplace that were totally incompetent slide by because someone liked them.

Kubiak should be fired, but, McNair really likes the guy. It's emotional for him. McNair cares less about winning a Super Bowl than he does about his relationship with Gary Kubiak.

I can see McNair doing it and not based on liking Kubiak.

IF McNair believes the #1 problem is the QB he may keep Kubiak thinking the problem this year is the unexpected cratering of their starting QB and the belief Kubiak is a QB guy to develop a new starter between Keenum and a draft pick.

Not saying it is the right decision but a scenario I would not be shocked by.

Beer and Metal
12-04-2013, 02:23 PM
I don't think he'll have to. Kubiak will retire for health reasons.

The Pencil Neck
12-04-2013, 02:25 PM
I expect McNair to fire Kubiak after this season. OTOH, I expected McNair to fire Kubiak after the 6-10 season, so I could be wrong.

The Pencil Neck
12-04-2013, 02:25 PM
I don't think he'll have to. Kubiak will retire for health reasons.

That's a distinct possibility.

Thorn
12-04-2013, 02:28 PM
I don't think Kubiak is coming back next season. How that happens, I don't know, but I just don't think he'll be back.


If he does come back I'll be pissed as hell, I'll ***** about it in here, but I'll still be watching next season just as I always will.

escrimador
12-04-2013, 02:43 PM
I don't think so. I think he'll keep him for the last year of his contract.

2slik4u
12-04-2013, 02:43 PM
In the words of Hawk Harrelson:

"He Gone!!"

DX-TEX
12-04-2013, 02:53 PM
I don't think so. I think he'll keep him for the last year of his contract.

I am so sick and tired of hearing that. I can not remember a single instance in the history of the league where someone was retained because they had time remaining on their contract even though they failed miserably.

escrimador
12-04-2013, 02:55 PM
I am so sick and tired of hearing that. I can not remember a single instance in the history of the league where someone was retained because they had time remaining on their contract even though they failed miserably.

Yup. But it's about what Mcnair thinks. We already know he doesn't give in to fan pressure. He's got his own plan. I think he sticks with it.

DX-TEX
12-04-2013, 02:56 PM
Yup. But it's about what Mcnair thinks. We already know he doesn't give in to fan pressure. He's got his own plan. I think he sticks with it.

So then Schaub must stay as well.......call it misplaced aggression but I am really starting to think Bob McNair sucks

Showtime100
12-04-2013, 02:56 PM
I said yes because I don't think McNair can justify keeping him to the fans. We always hear how no owner cares about what the fan thinks and that's true. But this is an extreme case. Kubiak (and Co.) just.....has.....to go. Otherwise McNair will lose all credibility as an owner that wants to win and I think he knows it.

DBCooper
12-04-2013, 03:00 PM
Call me wishy washy, not a real fan or whatever....but if Kubiak is retained after this debacle I am done with this team

You're wishy washy

Rey
12-04-2013, 03:11 PM
I think kubiak will be here.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just think that if he was going to fire him he should've already done it.

The guy had a mini stroke. If I was going to fire someone I would have told him that I think it's best that he take care of his health. I am planning on going a new direction next season so I think it's best we part ways now and you can focus fully on your health.

McNair didn't do that. I think kubiak will be back.

Double Barrel
12-04-2013, 03:12 PM
I am mentally preparing myself for the possibility that McNair keeps Kubiak.

Along with the reasons Marcus mentioned about being a "QB coach", I can see the mentality of letting Kubiak use a high first round pick on a potential franchise QB.

Marvin Lewis is a perfect example of a mediocre coach getting infinite chances, so it's not unheard of. Heck, Lewis is 87-84-1, four playoff appearances and no playoff wins.

Local sports radio was talking this morning about a John McClain article that was in support of keeping Kubiak. I did not read the article, but they said it gave the impression that he's been told something and is sort of "towing the company line" on the subject.

It's going to be the ugliest off-season in Texans history if McNair keeps him. It will dwarf the VY/Bush draft media circus, IMO.

Rey
12-04-2013, 03:16 PM
Also, I think McNair is likely to view this season as a fluke.

I'm not going to freak out when McNair keeps kubiak. I think he's a bad head coach, but a guy can learn, right?

Showtime100
12-04-2013, 03:17 PM
It's going to be the ugliest off-season in Texans history if McNair keeps him. It will dwarf the VY/Bush draft media circus, IMO.

Wow. It'll be brutal. It'll be kind of like when Bum was fired only this will be for the opposite reason. But the outrage will be the same.

If he keeps Kubiak we can no longer make fun of Jerry Jones because our clown is just as bad.

I don't even want to think about it. All this after we had Bud all those years. :roast:

steelbtexan
12-04-2013, 03:21 PM
I don't think Kubiak is coming back next season. How that happens, I don't know, but I just don't think he'll be back.


If he does come back I'll be pissed as hell, I'll ***** about it in here, but I'll still be watching next season just as I always will.

This, but I wont be renewing my tickets, even if I lose my PSL $$$$.

The reason BoB probably wont fire Gary (1 yr remaining on his contract) and definitely wont be firing Rick. (2 yrs left) comes down to $$$$. Hopefully Rick is a GM in name only, like he is now, because I've got no faith in Rick Smith.

Bottom line after 8 yrs and 10 losses in a row in a season that BoB/Rick/Gary touted this team as a SB contender, enough is enough.

cuppacoffee
12-04-2013, 03:24 PM
I don't think he will fire Kubiak.

I do believe Kubiak will be given an ultimatum to replace a few assistants.

Lets start with our ST coach.

Then replace our WR receivers coach whomever that is.
We still have only one dependable WR on this team despite drafting/signing Hopkins (#1 pick), Posey, Jean, Martin, none of whom seem to be any more reliable than the day we drafted/signed them. Then there was Jones, but that is another story. We have Bonner and Lemon who are on the PS who went through camp and couldn't replace any of the aforementioned players.

We have developed one TE and he is on IR for most of this year. Our former backup TE who went to Denver isn't exactly tearing up the league.

And last but not least, a new DC who doesn't think his players are too dumb to learn multiple schemes. :wadepalm:

But then again, Aw hell, blow the whole thing up. Couldn't do worse than 2-14 with a whole new coaching crew, and all new players..... and might as well give Smith his walking papers.

Maybe our scouting department sucks?

And what team has ever been successful who had wishy-washy fans. Yep, it's all our fault. Move the team to London and get all new fans.

:coffee:

disaacks3
12-04-2013, 03:31 PM
I don't think he'll have to. Kubiak will retire for health reasons. I keep waiting for a gentleman's agreement saying just that. McNair doesn't have to buy him out, and Kubiak doesn't have to get publicly fired.

Showtime100
12-04-2013, 03:31 PM
You people are scaring me. Cut it out. :eek:

TexansFight
12-04-2013, 03:34 PM
The thought of Kubiak coming back enrages me. Crap I need to take a walk to calm down.

Mr. White
12-04-2013, 03:35 PM
Voted no in the poll.

I think it probably isn't the best course of action, but I guess I can live with Kubiak staying around if he gets a real proven OC and let that guy make the calls on offense.

nero THE zero
12-04-2013, 03:36 PM
I am mentally preparing myself for the possibility that McNair keeps Kubiak.

Along with the reasons Marcus mentioned about being a "QB coach", I can see the mentality of letting Kubiak use a high first round pick on a potential franchise QB.

Marvin Lewis is a perfect example of a mediocre coach getting infinite chances, so it's not unheard of. Heck, Lewis is 87-84-1, four playoff appearances and no playoff wins.

Local sports radio was talking this morning about a John McClain article that was in support of keeping Kubiak. I did not read the article, but they said it gave the impression that he's been told something and is sort of "towing the company line" on the subject.

It's going to be the ugliest off-season in Texans history if McNair keeps him. It will dwarf the VY/Bush draft media circus, IMO.

Are you sure you're not mistaking the conversation regarding keeping Smith?

The whole premise was that no team in history has won division titles and playoffs games in back-to-back seasons and fired the GM and coach after the next season.

McClain maintains that Kubiak will be fired and Smith will stay.

DX-TEX
12-04-2013, 03:40 PM
You're wishy washy

Shut up Ben. Enjoy Cleveland

Hervoyel
12-04-2013, 03:45 PM
I think he will fire him and I think that will be true because there's going to be no other way to spin a 14 game losing streak when the season is over.

What? It's only 10 games? Wait for it......

HoustonFrog
12-04-2013, 03:47 PM
My first reaction to the stroke issue was that it was a get out of jail free card but then I changed when the losses piled up. It's actually a get out of jail free card for McNair. Losses are piling up. Confidence is low. McNair can broach letting him go in many ways,..concern for health, offer of front office, etc. Either way I doubt Kubiak gets through this.

As far as McClain, he was wrong years ago about Gary being gone. He is an idiot.

ChampionTexan
12-04-2013, 04:00 PM
So then Schaub must stay as well.......call it misplaced aggression but I am really starting to think Bob McNair sucks

Apples to oranges. Schaub's 2014 salary is not guaranteed, and waiving him creates cap room. Kubiak's 2014 salary is guaranteed, and firing him has no impact on the cap.

That said, my guess at what will happen is that Kubiak's fired along with most if not all of the coaching staff the week after the RS ends. Rick Smith is kept around to clean up the mess. (and as has been repeatedly stated, this is my guess as what will happen, not what should).

Dread-Head
12-04-2013, 04:08 PM
keep Kubiak as Offensive Co-ordinator...

HOU-TEX
12-04-2013, 04:09 PM
The thought of Kubiak coming back enrages me. Crap I need to take a walk to calm down.

During the first month and a half of the season I'd go work on various wood working projects in my garage after games. It helped ease my mind and chill my BP.

I still work in my garage all the time, but because I want to, not because of this dadgum team. I just shrug it off or even laugh about L's now.

I'm sure expectations will begin to grow again this off-season. Now? I just don't give a hoot

leebigeztx
12-04-2013, 04:29 PM
When the fan apathy has turned into no shows in tye parking lot and the stands,owners make changes. Good coaches dont lose 10 games in a row regardless of the situation. lok at how poor the steeler and giants started and now both have double the wins of the texans. Ever if u get in a small slump,you dont stay there.

OzzO
12-04-2013, 04:57 PM
In the pit of my stomach, I don't think he will. "Expect the worse..."

But didn't McNair mention "Superbowl or bust" at the beginning of the year? Then if he keeps it all intact after this season, he's wishy washy.

GNTLEWOLF
12-04-2013, 04:59 PM
He stays, McNair's history says so. It is in his character and you don't change that.

acal21
12-04-2013, 06:13 PM
My street credentials that i never really got are about to disappear but I AM A BELIEVER IN KUBIAK

1. Hire a new special teams coordinator

2. He needs to add some wrinkles to the offense and let the QB audible every time he feels necessary

3. Get everyone in that locker room to just shut up, i don't care if they are saying the right thing... i don't wanna hear nothing not even if they are 16-0 going into the playoffs

4. Keep schaub as the backup QB

5. Trade down and take the best RB available in rounds 1 and 2

6. I don't care when but take a former basketball player to play TE there isn't much to develop in getting a jump ball in the redzone

Number19
12-04-2013, 06:21 PM
I'll stick with my previous prediction and say no. He'll give him his final year of his contract.

Number19
12-04-2013, 06:25 PM
...The Texans will likely lose money next year...They will lose fans and money only if they continue to lose, which I believe is unlikely. Winning solves all problems.

acal21
12-04-2013, 06:51 PM
how in the world can you be a firm believer of a coach who doesnt let his qb freely audible and cant run a no huddle?

Do you know how embarrassing that is?


It is embarrassing

Im saying if he makes that change it will make the difference

Im just not ready to give up and clean house

Bob Mcnair should be straight up going into next season and tell all texans fans he's on the hot seat

The Pencil Neck
12-04-2013, 07:07 PM
how in the world can you be a firm believer of a coach who doesnt let his qb freely audible and cant run a no huddle?

Do you know how embarrassing that is?

That doesn't embarrass me at all.

If you've got a system where if the QB makes the right reads, he'll have a successful play, then there's no reason to audible to something else.

A system where the QB can call any play in the playbook is great in theory. But if one or two people on the field don't know all of the playbook or get confused, then you can be totally and completely screwed.

Runner
12-04-2013, 07:07 PM
In the pit of my stomach, I don't think he will. "Expect the worse..."

But didn't McNair mention "Superbowl or bust" at the beginning of the year? Then if he keeps it all intact after this season, he's wishy washy.

Odds are they don't make the Super Bowl.

At 2-10 this season looks like a bust.

Super Bowl or Bust - check. He didn't say there would be accountability, did he?

Runner
12-04-2013, 07:11 PM
Also, I think McNair is likely to view this season as a fluke.

I'm not going to freak out when McNair keeps kubiak. I think he's a bad head coach, but a guy can learn, right?

I'm looking forward to Kubes coming back, improving to a non-losing 8-8, and all of the bogus "right way" talk to start again. Slow and steady. Sloooowwwww and steady.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2013, 07:24 PM
McNair only cares about the bottom line and doing it the family way. He does not have the nads to change, just like his coach. I am apathetic to this franchise, and my disdain is largely due to the fact that it is a buyer's market in the PSL marketplace, and can't offload them until a coaching change happens.

This franchise, and my investment in dollars and time, have been embarrasing.

Rey
12-04-2013, 07:35 PM
McNair only cares about the bottom line and doing it the family way. He does not have the nads to change, just like his coach. I am apathetic to this franchise, and my disdain is largely due to the fact that it is a buyer's market in the PSL marketplace, and can't offload them until a coaching change happens.

This franchise, and my investment in dollars and time, have been embarrasing.

I want to frame this.

About sums it up for me.

Lucky
12-04-2013, 07:48 PM
This franchise, and my investment in dollars and time, have been embarrasing.
But like a car wreck, I can't pull my eyes away. I'm compelled to look.

Fired. No doubt in my mind. This season has embarrassed McNair. And Kubiak's blood is the cost of that embarrassment.

TheMatrix31
12-04-2013, 07:54 PM
There isn't even the slightest doubt in my mind that he fires the **** out of him.

The Pencil Neck
12-04-2013, 08:22 PM
I'm looking forward to Kubes coming back, improving to a non-losing 8-8, and all of the bogus "right way" talk to start again. Slow and steady. Sloooowwwww and steady.

I still believe that great teams are not made by changing coaches every year or two. But I think a lot depends on the team they're taking over.

I believe that the team that Kubiak took over would have taken ANYONE a few years to get turned around.

THIS team has enough talent to win some games (even though some people on this board don't think so.) I'm going to give someone a lot less time to start winning with this team than I did with Kubiak and the team he inherited from Capers.

If I believed that this is a talentless team, then I'd think it would take 4-5 years before I'd expect someone to start being successful because I don't think someone can take over a complete train-wreck and turn it around in less than 3 years.

The problem is that choosing a new coach is a crapshoot. So just because you change the GM and Coach, that doesn't mean they're going to be the right guys at the right time.

Hervoyel
12-04-2013, 08:34 PM
It is embarrassing

Im saying if he makes that change it will make the difference

Im just not ready to give up and clean house

Bob Mcnair should be straight up going into next season and tell all texans fans he's on the hot seat


There's no point in cleaning house now. The sumbitch burned down already.

drs23
12-04-2013, 09:19 PM
I don't think he'll have to. Kubiak will retire for health reasons.

That my friend is no way based in reality. Kubiak is a HC in the NFL and they're all driven by ego. You and I have watched this cat from day one and if there's anything that can be discerned from what we've seen from day one is that the man certainly has the ego that will not in any shape, form or fashion allow him to "retire for health reasons".

Never happen, GI.

houstonhurricane
12-04-2013, 10:30 PM
Just two days ago McClain was adamant Kubiak was deservedly gone and today he writes a column about the need to keep him? I can see where this freight train is heading...

houstonspartan
12-04-2013, 10:51 PM
They will lose fans and money only if they continue to lose, which I believe is unlikely. Winning solves all problems.

Not quite. If they keep Kubiak another year, NO WAY will they be able to justify raising ticket prices even a penny. It would be impossible. That means that they will lose money for next year.

If they start winning next year, they can raise prices the following year. But next year? No way.

Bob can forget about an increase in profits for 2014.

MistaRed
12-04-2013, 10:51 PM
Initially I thought Kubiak was good as gone but murmurs about Kubiak staying put have convinced me he will stay. I hope I'm wrong. Mcnair retaining this coaching staff would let me know two things:

1. Mcnair doesn't care about winning only about money.

2. I won't have a nfl team to root for. I won't support continued mediocrity.

houstonspartan
12-04-2013, 10:53 PM
Just two days ago McClain was adamant Kubiak was deservedly gone and today he writes a column about the need to keep him? I can see where this freight train is heading...

Where?

houstonspartan
12-04-2013, 10:56 PM
Initially I thought Kubiak was good as gone but murmurs about Kubiak staying put have convinced me he will stay. I hope I'm wrong. Mcnair retaining this coaching staff would let me know two things:

1. Mcnair doesn't care about winning only about money.

2. I won't have a nfl team to root for. I won't support continued mediocrity.

Again: he makes more money by firing him and starting over. He can't justify price increases to fans.

I don't think it's about winning vs money; I think it's about winning vs friendship. McNair values his relationship with Kubiak much, much more than money and winning. That's the bigger issue.

Make no mistake: my friends are more important than money and business.

But that's also why I don't do business with friends.

MistaRed
12-04-2013, 11:07 PM
Again: he makes more money by firing him and starting over. He can't justify price increases to fans.

I don't think it's about winning vs money; I think it's about winning vs friendship. McNair values his relationship with Kubiak much, much more than money and winning. That's the bigger issue.

Make no mistake: my friends are more important than money and business.

But that's also why I don't do business with friends.

Friendships aside, Mcnair knows the NFL is a results driven league. He hung with Kubiak when we were calling for his head 3 years ago. But it's time for a change.

Goatcheese
12-05-2013, 12:37 AM
Kubiak probably survives another 6-10 season with his health scare, but only 2-3 wins? The poor guy is already fired, he just has to fill out the paperwork to make it formal.

Tolar's Ghost
12-05-2013, 06:11 AM
Just two days ago McClain was adamant Kubiak was deservedly gone and today he writes a column about the need to keep him?...

I read McClain's Wedneday's column differently.

I don't think McClain was advocating keeping Kubiak. He was merely discussing - speculating really - what will go into McNair's decision of whether or not to keep him.

McClain has made it clear in his recent appearances on 610 that he believes/predicts Kubiak will be let go. But, as a reporter, he's careful to straddle the fence.

bckey
12-05-2013, 06:16 AM
If McNair thinks there is any chance he can sell keeping Kubiak he will do it. Problem for McNair is there just isn't any reason to retain him. The mini stroke is not a reason to keep him. I don't understand that line of thinking. Who does that in the real world (for something that lasted such a short period)except to protect themselves from a lawsuit. Now if Kubiak had remained out for most of the season then yes I could buy that. But the guy rushed back missing only the next game. McNair may float a trial balloon or 2 out there himself or through someone else to gauge public reaction to keeping Kubiak but the results would be overwhelmingly against it. So in the end I voted yes.:kubepalm:

Number19
12-05-2013, 06:36 AM
Not quite. If they keep Kubiak another year, NO WAY will they be able to justify raising ticket prices even a penny. It would be impossible. That means that they will lose money for next year.

If they start winning next year, they can raise prices the following year. But next year? No way.

Bob can forget about an increase in profits for 2014.You are reasoning like a liberal : Bob McNair will lose money if he doesn't INCREASE his PROFITS. I reason like a business man : you are losing money only if your financial statement is in the red. I have no idea what the financial condition of the Texan organization is, but I've read that it is one of the most profitable in the league. It's unlikely the organization will be in the red next season, especially if we start winning again.

Based solely on profitability, business' seldom make major changes after only one red statement. I think this argument can be put to bed as a reason McNair may make changes.

If changes are made it will be based on McNair's analysis and decision on whether Kubiak can turn the team around next season and whether we are on track to winning in the playoffs.

The mood of the fans are unlikely to be a primary influence.

houstonhurricane
12-05-2013, 08:45 AM
I read McClain's Wedneday's column differently.

I don't think McClain was advocating keeping Kubiak. He was merely discussing - speculating really - what will go into McNair's decision of whether or not to keep him.

McClain has made it clear in his recent appearances on 610 that he believes/predicts Kubiak will be let go. But, as a reporter, he's careful to straddle the fence.

I could see that. Would be interested to know if any of the local sports shows on 610 have McClain on today and what he says on air...

KA4Texan
12-05-2013, 08:55 AM
I voted "Yes", because I don't see how he can keep him around and be taken seriously after Kubiak so obviously lost the team. Add on how many years Kubiak has had to get it right. There are no excuses left for how a playoff "Super Bowl bound team" is 2-10.

If he hadn't lost the team I would be certain in Kubiak's return next season, but since he has.... I just can't fathom how he would be able to keep him. (Without the fans and players losing their minds)

Even with my vote of yes, there is still that fear of "we are on the right track".

HoustonFrog
12-05-2013, 08:59 AM
I read McClain's Wedneday's column differently.

I don't think McClain was advocating keeping Kubiak. He was merely discussing - speculating really - what will go into McNair's decision of whether or not to keep him.

McClain has made it clear in his recent appearances on 610 that he believes/predicts Kubiak will be let go. But, as a reporter, he's careful to straddle the fence.

Here is the tweet with the article. It allowed me to read whole thing vs being an online subscriber

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL 21h
Texans house cleaning would be foolish http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-house-cleaning-would-be-foolish-5032987.php?t=e346f26322cc308649 …


I took it as John going all in on nothing happening. Though it could advocate keeping Smith and letting Kubes go but the article talks about Kubiak being needed to train up the QBs. Depressing to see since he was yelling that the team was quitting just last week.

HOU-TEX
12-05-2013, 10:16 AM
Here is the tweet with the article. It allowed me to read whole thing vs being an online subscriber



I took it as John going all in on nothing happening. Though it could advocate keeping Smith and letting Kubes go but the article talks about Kubiak being needed to train up the QBs. Depressing to see since he was yelling that the team was quitting just last week.

I didn't read the article. I rarely read anything from anyone at that rag.

I did happen to hear him (over the wheezing and panting) on 610. The bolded is the direction it sounded like he was leaning while on the radio.

Then again, like someone already mentioned, he flip flops so much....who knows?

houstonspartan
12-05-2013, 10:33 AM
You are reasoning like a liberal : Bob McNair will lose money if he doesn't INCREASE his PROFITS. I reason like a business man : you are losing money only if your financial statement is in the red. I have no idea what the financial condition of the Texan organization is, but I've read that it is one of the most profitable in the league. It's unlikely the organization will be in the red next season, especially if we start winning again.

Based solely on profitability, business' seldom make major changes after only one red statement. I think this argument can be put to bed as a reason McNair may make changes.

If changes are made it will be based on McNair's analysis and decision on whether Kubiak can turn the team around next season and whether we are on track to winning in the playoffs.

The mood of the fans are unlikely to be a primary influence.

That's nonsense. Politics has nothing to do with this. I am speaking as a business person and a season ticket holder.

You can only push your customers so far. Especially in an field like entertainment (which is what football is). It's not like the airlines, which can unfortunately get away with a certain amount of price gouging. But, when it comes to football, fans can simply find other means of entertainment.

I am not saying that the Texans will be in the red if they keep Kubiak. I am saying that if they keep him, they will make less profits next year, because they will have zero justificiation for raising ticket prices to their consumers.

I am not talking about the mood of the fans; I am talking about the mood of the people buying tickets at Reliant.

McNair knows who pays the bills.

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 11:13 AM
I am not talking about the mood of the fans; I am talking about the mood of the people buying tickets at Reliant.

McNair knows who pays the bills.

Yes he does and it is TV on contracts done for extended periods. Seats at Reliant doesn't come close to covering salaries. Not raising ticket prices is a flea on an elephant's butt.* The TV contracts and league wide merchandizing revenue are long term deals. So knowing TV and merchandizing are the elephant in the room McNair knows he does not need to be particularly responsive to mercurial fans.

* Seat revenue this year is $65.25 mil. So a 5% increase missed next year is $3,262,500. That doesn't cover Wade Smith's tab.

Hervoyel
12-05-2013, 11:21 AM
That my friend is no way based in reality. Kubiak is a HC in the NFL and they're all driven by ego. You and I have watched this cat from day one and if there's anything that can be discerned from what we've seen from day one is that the man certainly has the ego that will not in any shape, form or fashion allow him to "retire for health reasons".

Never happen, GI.

Pretty much this. I mean, sure if there were overwhelming heath considerations then yeah. If he had a year to live or was diagnosed with some disease that requires full-time treatment to even have a chance of surviving of course he retires due to health reasons. Mini-stroke just isn't going to cut it though.

disaacks3
12-05-2013, 11:21 AM
Yes he does and it is TV on contracts done for extended periods. Seats at Reliant doesn't come close to covering salaries. Not raising ticket prices is a flea on an elephant's butt.* The TV contracts and league wide merchandizing revenue are long term deals. So knowing TV and merchandizing are the elephant in the room McNair knows he does not need to be particularly responsive to mercurial fans.

* Seat revenue this year is $65.25 mil. So a 5% increase missed next year is $3,262,500. That doesn't cover Wade Smith's tab. I'm guessing that doesn't cover the suites?

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 11:25 AM
I'm guessing that doesn't cover the suites?

It doesn't include the down cost of PSL's or suites but I believe it covers the actual ticket cost. Frankly, add $20 mil on and the point remains the same.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 11:54 AM
I don't think making money is McNair's primary concern. If it was, he'd have done a LOT of things differently.

Most people don't buy NFL franchises because if its moneymaking potential -- sure, that's a nice bonus. But for someone who is a BILLIONAIRE and got that way through other means, an NFL franchise can be a lot of different things but mostly, it's a status symbol and the culmination of a childhood dream of being part of a sports franchise.

If McNair was all about maximizing his profit, then we would have a huge gap between the salaries of our players and the cap limit. And we don't. We'd have the fewest number of coaches possible. And we don't.

I think McNair wants to win. I think he wants to have a winning team. But I think he's trying to model the way the franchise works on Pittsburgh (recently) and Miami and Dallas (in the 70's and 80's). I think that HE thinks that a winning program is based on stability.

I don't think McNair gives one rat's ass about his "customers" in this context. He doesn't care if we like or dislike Kubiak. He only cares about whether HE thinks Kubiak can give him a winning team. And he's had Kubiak give him a contender a couple of years in a row.

So I can see him keeping Kubiak around if he thinks Kubiak is doing a good job or if he thinks Kubiak can do a good job in the future.

With all that said... I expect him to fire Kubiak. But I don't expect him to fire Kubiak because he thinks it will renew the fanbase's morale or sell more tickets.

Double Barrel
12-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Are you sure you're not mistaking the conversation regarding keeping Smith?

The whole premise was that no team in history has won division titles and playoffs games in back-to-back seasons and fired the GM and coach after the next season.

McClain maintains that Kubiak will be fired and Smith will stay.

Nope, not a mistake on my part.

Read it for yourself. This is the article they were talking about on the radio:

Texans house cleaning would be foolish

When a team loses as much as the Texans have, change is inevitable. But what kind of owner fires his general manager and coach one bad season after they won back-to-back AFC South titles and a playoff game each year?

A foolish one.

And McNair is no fool.

Source (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-house-cleaning-would-be-foolish-5032987.php?t=e346f26322cc308649)

I did not get to read the article until today, and I'm not upset about it like the guys on the radio. It's just McClain filling up space as far as I'm concerned.

But like a car wreck, I can't pull my eyes away. I'm compelled to look.

Fired. No doubt in my mind. This season has embarrassed McNair. And Kubiak's blood is the cost of that embarrassment.

One aspect that makes me lean toward a Kubiak firing is McNair's radio silence. In 2010, when fans were getting restless, McNair made a series of statements that were clearly in support of Kubiak. That owners' meeting after losing a tight MNF game comes to mind, where he said all the owners told him what a great team he has and that he just needs to be patient. Then the infamous "ox in a ditch" and "on the right track" quotes came out around the same time.

Now...we hear absolutely nothing from McNair. Not a peep, afaik. That tells me that he's preparing to do what he has to do, which is probably not easy for a guy like McNair, but he knows that it's time when he sees this garbage product on the field in his team's uniforms.

That said, I'm still preparing myself for the worst. Hoping for the best, but I'm not expecting anything.

Bob McNair will lose money if he doesn't INCREASE his PROFITS.

31 teams in the NFL make a profit every year regardless of results. The only team that does not turn a profit is the Lions, and that is a direct result of massive debt from financing a new stadium and bad management.

Only One NFL Team Lost Money In 2012 (http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201308/only-one-nfl-team-lost-money-2012)

A new Forbes report indicates just how profitable the NFL has become. According to the study the average NFL team is worth $1.17 billion, and the most valuable team, the Dallas Cowboys, are worth an astounding $2.3 billion.

In that respect, it may be surprising to hear that not every NFL franchise operated at a surplus in 2012. In fact one team lost money.

Forbes reported that the Detroit Lions, who were valued at $900 million and took in $248 million in revenue last year, posted a loss of $3.5 million last year.

------------------------------

Below is the complete list of NFL franchise values and, in parenthesis, each team's operating income from 2012:

1. Dallas Cowboys: $2.3 billion ($250.7 million)
2. New England Patriots: $1.8 billion ($139.2 million)
3. Washington Redskins: $1.7 billion ($104.3 million)
4. New York Giants: $1.55 billion ($64.4 million)
5. Houston Texans: $1.45 billion ($81.5 million)

McNair could keep everything exactly the same in 2014 and still make a nice profit. Revenue sharing ensures this basic fact.

Texian
12-05-2013, 12:13 PM
I think McNair wants to win. I think he wants to have a winning team. But I think he's trying to model the way the franchise works on Pittsburgh (recently) and Miami and Dallas (in the 70's and 80's). I think that HE thinks that a winning program is based on stability.

I don't think McNair gives one rat's ass about his "customers" in this context. He doesn't care if we like or dislike Kubiak. He only cares about whether HE thinks Kubiak can give him a winning team. And he's had Kubiak give him a contender a couple of years in a row.

So I can see him keeping Kubiak around if he thinks Kubiak is doing a good job or if he thinks Kubiak can do a good job in the future.

With all that said... I expect him to fire Kubiak. But I don't expect him to fire Kubiak because he thinks it will renew the fanbase's morale or sell more tickets.

I agree with most of your comments. I disagree somewhat with Pittsburgh, Miami, Dallas comments. I understand the point you're trying to make. To be more accurate, Bob McNair said prior to the start 2006 season he was using "The Patriot Model" to build his team going forward.

IMHO I do think that customer fan disapproval does take their toll. I can't imagine any owner wanting to live with 24/7 bad press, criticism, disapproval and condemnation, it affects the personal side of their life. Owners are people to. Plus all of the above is bad for business and that effects the business side of their life.

disaacks3
12-05-2013, 12:19 PM
If McNair was all about maximizing his profit, then we would have a huge gap between the salaries of our players and the cap limit. And we don't. We'd have the fewest number of coaches possible. And we don't.

I don't think McNair gives one rat's ass about his "customers" in this context. He doesn't care if we like or dislike Kubiak. He only cares about whether HE thinks Kubiak can give him a winning team. And he's had Kubiak give him a contender a couple of years in a row.

To the first paragraph, the current CBA prevents going too far under the cap. You're also making the assumption that by going "cheap" McNair could guarantee the same revenue stream.

To the second, I couldn't disagree more. He cares what he hears from fans when he sees decreased revenue streams. He's already seeing that now with reduced concessions, stadium merchandise, licensing and the like. If he thinks that retaining Kubiak will keep hurting those streams in anything other than the very near term, he might be inclined to make a change.

Sure, he's in no danger of losing money anytime soon, but if this team is his status symbol (I tend to agree), then the longer we wallow, the lower that status.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 12:34 PM
To the first paragraph, the current CBA prevents going too far under the cap. You're also making the assumption that by going "cheap" McNair could guarantee the same revenue stream.

To the second, I couldn't disagree more. He cares what he hears from fans when he sees decreased revenue streams. He's already seeing that now with reduced concessions, stadium merchandise, licensing and the like. If he thinks that retaining Kubiak will keep hurting those streams in anything other than the very near term, he might be inclined to make a change.

Sure, he's in no danger of losing money anytime soon, but if this team is his status symbol (I tend to agree), then the longer we wallow, the lower that status.

Even before the current CBA, we weren't one of the teams with a ton of cap space. The Buccs almost always have 20-40 million to spend. THAT'S a team where I'd be worried about a cheap owner.

Another team is the Bengals. For them, this IS their revenue. Their owners are worried about profit far more than McNair is. And because of that, they do things cheap. They nickle and dime their players. McNair provides them with nice facilities and provides perks you'd expect (like free gatorade); the Bengals don't (from what I've heard.)

Fans are fickle. Daniel Snyder tried for years to run his team like a fan would and it got him nothing. Does McNair want fans in the seats? Yes, of course he does. But he believes the way to get them there isn't by doing what they want, it's by giving them a winner. And he doesn't think they (we) know what's best for his team.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 12:42 PM
I agree with most of your comments. I disagree somewhat with Pittsburgh, Miami, Dallas comments. I understand the point you're trying to make. To be more accurate, Bob McNair said prior to the start 2006 season he was using "The Patriot Model" to build his team going forward.

IMHO I do think that customer fan disapproval does take their toll. I can't imagine any owner wanting to live with 24/7 bad press, criticism, disapproval and condemnation, it affects the personal side of their life. Owners are people to. Plus all of the above is bad for business and that effects the business side of their life.

How are the fans perspectives on the Texans bad for McNair's businesses? If the fans are ticked off about Kubiak, how does that translate to some power plants on the East Coast, a Biotech firm, a Real Estate company, and some venture capital things?

McNair's not running some Mytiburger franchise that local people are going to stop going to if they don't like what he does with the team. The fans in Houston are NOT the people McNair's businesses deal with. The only time their his customers is when they're going to the games. And if he's not looking at that as his main source of income, then he's not that worried about what the fans think.

For someone like a McNair or a Jerry Jones, owning a sports team is their way of playing Madden. This is a game. They want to win. It's exciting. But if someone is burning a Schaub jersey outside the stadium, it's not the end of their world.

YeaLikeRightNow
12-05-2013, 01:00 PM
Simply put:

No one should be fired unless there is a viable, proven solution to the existing staff. Firing for the sake of firing will only satisfy temporarily.

Who is out there, who is interested in taking on the Texans coaching position? Who will they bring in, who will they retain and of utmost importance, how will it effect the team as a whole?

The best solution in this case would be for Kubiak to be retained, for Kubiak to hire a new special teams coach, possibly a new and "modernized" offensive coordinator, and to make Wade "modernize" the defense. Have them look in the mirror at the guys they let go, the guys they tried to replace them with, and to look how well the guys they let go are playing for other teams. There are many lessons to be learned here, and Bob knows this as well. Shape up or ship out after one more season.

Taking out the run-down and carbureted V8 - and freshening up with a fuel injected one is the theory here.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 01:07 PM
Simply put:

No one should be fired unless there is a viable, proven solution to the existing staff. Firing for the sake of firing will only satisfy temporarily.

Who is out there, who is interested in taking on the Texans coaching position? Who will they bring in, who will they retain and of utmost importance, how will it effect the team as a whole?

The best solution in this case would be for Kubiak to be retained, for Kubiak to hire a new special teams coach, possibly a new and "modernized" offensive coordinator, and to make Wade "modernize" the defense. Have them look in the mirror at the guys they let go, the guys they tried to replace them with, and to look how well the guys they let go are playing for other teams. There are many lessons to be learned here, and Bob knows this as well. Shape up or ship out after one more season.

Taking out the run-down and carbureted V8 - and freshening up with a fuel injected one is the theory here.

The problem is that there's never a proven solution.

Every time you change coaching staffs, it's a crap-shoot.

But you can't let that keep you from pulling the trigger if the guy you've got isn't getting it done.

Texian
12-05-2013, 01:50 PM
How are the fans perspectives on the Texans bad for McNair's businesses? If the fans are ticked off about Kubiak, how does that translate to some power plants on the East Coast, a Biotech firm, a Real Estate company, and some venture capital things?

McNair's not running some Mytiburger franchise that local people are going to stop going to if they don't like what he does with the team. The fans in Houston are NOT the people McNair's businesses deal with. The only time their his customers is when they're going to the games. And if he's not looking at that as his main source of income, then he's not that worried about what the fans think.

For someone like a McNair or a Jerry Jones, owning a sports team is their way of playing Madden. This is a game. They want to win. It's exciting. But if someone is burning a Schaub jersey outside the stadium, it's not the end of their world.

For starters when fans stop going to games there is a loss parking revenue, concession revenue, seat revenue, suite rental revenue. Seasons of discontent can have a negative effect of Texans advertising rates. Burning a Schaub jersey outside of Reliant may not be a problem. When they stop buying the jerseys they burn, that is.Television advertising rates are based on ratings, when fans stop watching rates go down. Prudent and responsible CEOs are not in the business of dismissing the loss of revenues, they're in the business of increasing and growing revenues.

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 02:25 PM
For starters when fans stop going to games there is a loss parking revenue, concession revenue, seat revenue, suite rental revenue. Seasons of discontent can have a negative effect of Texans advertising rates. Burning a Schaub jersey outside of Reliant may not be a problem. When they stop buying the jerseys they burn, that is.Television advertising rates are based on ratings, when fans stop watching rates go down. Prudent and responsible CEOs are not in the business of dismissing the loss of revenues, they're in the business of increasing and growing revenues.

90% of Reliant is sold on season tickets. You are seeing some unused seats/parking this year but the revenue is not lost except on the game day sales of concessions. Until it hits the point where the Texans are not selling out the games their attendance losses are limited to game day purchases.

Merchandise is shared by the league (with some small exceptions). That's why the VY will sell more jerseys than Mario argument was silly.

The TV contracts are long term league deals.

There are a few things individual teams negotiate like naming rights but again they are long term deals.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 02:34 PM
For starters when fans stop going to games there is a loss parking revenue, concession revenue, seat revenue, suite rental revenue. Seasons of discontent can have a negative effect of Texans advertising rates. Burning a Schaub jersey outside of Reliant may not be a problem. When they stop buying the jerseys they burn, that is.Television advertising rates are based on ratings, when fans stop watching rates go down. Prudent and responsible CEOs are not in the business of dismissing the loss of revenues, they're in the business of increasing and growing revenues.

That's all true.

It would apply IF this was Bob McNair's BUSINESS.

This isn't his business. This is his HOBBY.

This is a guy who gives away $100,000,000 dollars in charity.

houstonspartan
12-05-2013, 02:37 PM
Simply put:

No one should be fired unless there is a viable, proven solution to the existing staff. Firing for the sake of firing will only satisfy temporarily.

Who is out there, who is interested in taking on the Texans coaching position? Who will they bring in, who will they retain and of utmost importance, how will it effect the team as a whole?

The best solution in this case would be for Kubiak to be retained, for Kubiak to hire a new special teams coach, possibly a new and "modernized" offensive coordinator, and to make Wade "modernize" the defense. Have them look in the mirror at the guys they let go, the guys they tried to replace them with, and to look how well the guys they let go are playing for other teams. There are many lessons to be learned here, and Bob knows this as well. Shape up or ship out after one more season.

Taking out the run-down and carbureted V8 - and freshening up with a fuel injected one is the theory here.

The "we can't do better" argument. That is lame and sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Rey
12-05-2013, 02:51 PM
That's all true.

It would apply IF this was Bob McNair's BUSINESS.

This isn't his business. This is his HOBBY.

This is a guy who gives away $100,000,000 dollars in charity.

I can't remember exactly how it went, but McNair originally wanted a hockey team.

I saw you mention McNair and jerry jones earlier and IMO, they are not a like in any way besides they both are rich.

Jerry jones actually is involved in the football stuff. He's hands on with that stuff.

We don't even know if McNair was the one who wanted Ed Reed. McNair brought in a football consultant during capers era. McNair goes to other owners for advice on whether his team is "on the right track".

You keep saying that McNair has plenty of money. That's true, but like a kleptomaniac stealing just to steal, very rich people (who really don't NEED anymore money) sometimes just like to make money because that's what they do.

The way the texans are marketed lets you know they are about the money. Let's not make it seem like the money this franchise makes isn't important to McNair. It is.

So while being a great football team might be a sign of status for McNair, I'm willing to bet that a really rich guy like him also views his franchise being one of the most valuable as a status symbol as well.

Texian
12-05-2013, 02:55 PM
90% of Reliant is sold on season tickets. You are seeing some unused seats/parking this year but the revenue is not lost except on the game day sales of concessions. Until it hits the point where the Texans are not selling out the games their attendance losses are limited to game day purchases.

Merchandise is shared by the league (with some small exceptions). That's why the VY will sell more jerseys than Mario argument was silly.

The TV contracts are long term league deals.

There are a few things individual teams negotiate like naming rights but again they are long term deals.

You're underestimating the amount of revenue loss. Just based on your cavalier dismissal of revenues is well over several million each Sunday. Funny how that is not much money when it is not yours. As a CEO and CFO your not doing a happy a dance when your revenue is declining. I don't know of any Owner/CEO/CFO who celebrates when revenue goes down. I use to own my own company and when revenue dropped, alarms and sirens went off with an immediate attention to why and how to stop it. I don't expect things are much different with any other FOR profit business.

That's all true.

It would apply IF this was Bob McNair's BUSINESS.

This isn't his business. This is his HOBBY.

This is a guy who gives away $100,000,000 dollars in charity.

McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to lose money. No owner or potential owner would either. Granted there may be a few owners who are content to tread water. Those owners and those NFL Franchises are closer to the Bottom 5 in franchise value and NOT one of the Top 5 Most Valuable NFL Franchises.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 03:13 PM
I can't remember exactly how it went, but McNair originally wanted a hockey team.

I saw you mention McNair and jerry jones earlier and IMO, they are not a like in any way besides they both are rich.

Jerry jones actually is involved in the football stuff. He's hands on with that stuff.

There are several different kinds of owners of major sports franchises.

For some, the sports franchise itself is their primary source of income. For some, it's about the status of it. For some, it's about the love of the game.

Jerry Jones and Bob McNair may be very different in their approaches to handling the day-to-day operations and their level of involvement, but I believe they're fundamentally alike in the fact that they love being a part of the game.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 03:15 PM
McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to lose money. No owner or potential owner would either. Granted there may be a few owners who are content to tread water. Those owners and those NFL Franchises are closer to the Bottom 5 in franchise value and NOT one of the Top 5 Most Valuable NFL Franchises.

McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to MAKE money. If he makes money, great. But that's not his primary concern.

And even with that said, he's not losing money with the Texans any time soon. If he's not losing money, why should he change his basic approach?

Rey
12-05-2013, 03:24 PM
There are several different kinds of owners of major sports franchises.

For some, the sports franchise itself is their primary source of income. For some, it's about the status of it. For some, it's about the love of the game.

Jerry Jones and Bob McNair may be very different in their approaches to handling the day-to-day operations and their level of involvement, but I believe they're fundamentally alike in the fact that they love being a part of the game.

McNair was going to go try and buy a hockey franchise.

What makes you think he is so in love with the game of football?

Jerry jones makes pretty much every decision for the cowboys. He's like al Davis more than he's like bob McNair.

I'm not saying McNair doesn't give a damn, but how you are connecting the dots between the two doesn't make any sense to me.

It's fine if you believe that McNair is a passionate football person like jerry jones or al Davis....but we really don't have any reason to believe that.

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 03:30 PM
McNair going to go try and buy a hockey franchise.

What makes you think he is so in love with the game of football?

Jerry jones makes pretty much every decision for the cowboys. He's like al Davis more than he's like bob McNair.

I'm not saying McNair doesn't give a damn, but how you are connecting the dots between the two doesn't make any sense to me.

It's fine if you believe that McNair is a passionate football person like jerry jones or al Davis....but we really don't have any reason to believe that.



Im not sure you could call Jerry and Al passionate football people based on their styles of owners. I would label them as control freaks more so than passionate football people.




As a side note I think Mcnair and his group paid 700MM for the Texans and it looks like they have doubled in value over the life of ownership which is less than a 7% return per year

Rey
12-05-2013, 03:30 PM
McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to MAKE money. If he makes money, great. But that's not his primary concern.

And even with that said, he's not losing money with the Texans any time soon. If he's not losing money, why should he change his basic approach?

You're passing your opinion off as fact.

As I've mentioned, McNair was going to buy a hockey franchise at first so it's not like he's some did hard football fanatic that just dreamed of having a football team.

And why would he change if he's not losing money ATM? Seriously?

No business person thinks like that. Was he losing money when he fired capers? No. But the point is that if you start to become less relevant in a market it's harder to climb back up that hill. Conversely, once you establish yourself as a giant, it's easier to maintain that success.

We really don't know his intentions as to why he wanted a sports franchise.

But I think you are way off base saying this is just a hobby. I think McNair is very proud that he has a very valuable franchise.

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 03:36 PM
You're underestimating the amount of revenue loss. Just based on your cavalier dismissal of revenues is well over several million each Sunday. Funny how that is not much money when it is not yours.

I am not being cavalier about anything. I pointed out lack of butts in the seat does not represent the income loss some people imagine. You have any source for the game day revenue of the Texans is "well over several million each Sunday?" - whatever that means.

Let's try a common sense appraisal of your assertion. Several is something more than 2 so at least 3 and "well over" let's go with 5 million in game day purchases exclusive of ticket cost. $5 million dollars in gross sales is $70 per person. $5 mil in net to the Texans would be at least double that. Either way, ain't happening. Not even close.

Exascor
12-05-2013, 03:50 PM
You're underestimating the amount of revenue loss. Just based on your cavalier dismissal of revenues is well over several million each Sunday. Funny how that is not much money when it is not yours. As a CEO and CFO your not doing a happy a dance when your revenue is declining. I don't know of any Owner/CEO/CFO who celebrates when revenue goes down. I use to own my own company and when revenue dropped, alarms and sirens went off with an immediate attention to why and how to stop it. I don't expect things are much different with any other FOR profit business.

McNair did not buy the Texans with the intent to lose money. No owner or potential owner would either. Granted there may be a few owners who are content to tread water. Those owners and those NFL Franchises are closer to the Bottom 5 in franchise value and NOT one of the Top 5 Most Valuable NFL Franchises.

I am not being cavalier about anything. I pointed out lack of butts in the seat does not represent the income loss some people imagine. You have any source for the game day revenue of the Texans is "well over several million each Sunday?" - whatever that means.Fairly simple math IMO. What does the average fan spend at a game? $50? Seems high but we can go with that. For every 10000 people that don't show up the loss should be no more than $500,000 per game. I really think that is a really high estimate. I personally spend nothing in stadium when I go to games. The stadium would have to be less than half full to lose $2 million in concessions. I don't see that happening for a long time. Parking is more difficult to figure out. Don't most season ticket holders have parking passes anyways? Meh - just my opinion. I'll let you smart dudes hash it out. =P

Meh - Cak edited while I was posting and basically said the same thing with different figures. I'm out! =)

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 04:15 PM
You're passing your opinion off as fact.

As I've mentioned, McNair was going to buy a hockey franchise at first so it's not like he's some did hard football fanatic that just dreamed of having a football team.


Oh. Of course. If he likes hockey, he must think football sucks because he can't possibly be a fanatic for both. And since he's thinking about buying a soccer club over in England, that just means his real love is... what... horse racing? He did have a couple of horses in the Kentucky Derby.

Yeah.

Obviously not hobbies.


And why would he change if he's not losing money ATM? Seriously?

No business person thinks like that. Was he losing money when he fired capers? No. But the point is that if you start to become less relevant in a market it's harder to climb back up that hill. Conversely, once you establish yourself as a giant, it's easier to maintain that success.

We really don't know his intentions as to why he wanted a sports franchise.

But I think you are way off base saying this is just a hobby. I think McNair is very proud that he has a very valuable franchise.

I've said several times that this is what I think. This is my response to all the people on here saying that Bob's a penny-pinching Scrooge.

This is what I believe. Of course, I'm going to state it as a fact because... it's what I believe. I believe that the people who see McNair as some cheapskate are wrong because they're making a huge mistake about what McNair's motivations are.

When it comes to things like this, ALL of us are stating our opinions as though they're facts. None of us know what's really going on in McNair's head or in the FO or any of this. We're all trying to look in and get some clarity.

Double Barrel
12-05-2013, 04:18 PM
This franchise could go 2-14 every year for the next decade and it would still turn a profit.

Yeah, not as much as if they are winning, but the basic fact remains that the NFL has ensured that their franchises will make money regardless if they win or lose. The Lions being the sole exception because they are in Detroit and are on the hook for a really expensive stadium.

I have never doubted McNair's desire to win. Why? I do not know. I suppose it's because I do not want to assume that it's just a business to him. And while I do not doubt his desire to win (both as an owner fan and a business man), I do have some serious reservations about what we know with how he thinks he can consistently win.

We know about the "Patriots model" with McNair. But, would Robert Kraft be so loyal to his HC if it was not Belichick and his five SB appearances? Loyalty came directly from the success. Remember, Kraft was no so blindingly loyal to Pete Carroll, who was the head coach for three seasons (never had a losing record, btw), when Kraft FIRED him. Matter of fact, Carroll had them in the playoffs two out his three seasons (1-2 record) and was FIRED after an 8-8 season. This is the lesson that McNair should take from the so-called "Patriots model". Loyalty is a reward for success, not a security blanket so the head coach feels secure no matter what happens.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 04:23 PM
People are talking about the "Patriots Model", but what I recall from back in the day was McNair talking about modeling the team on the STEELERs model.

It looks like InsideOp heard the same thing:
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1953329&postcount=29

I think the Patriots Model thing came up later... around 2006 or so. But I thought I remembered him saying something back in 2001 that we were going to try to model the team on the Steelers.

Norg
12-05-2013, 04:39 PM
if we win out NO esp if we beat the Elite team in Denver


if we lose to Denver and Indy and ten then I think YEs that's a givin

I think he needs to beat Indy and Denver that's his only chance and we will see how the last game goes @Tenn

Rey
12-05-2013, 04:48 PM
This franchise could go 2-14 every year for the next decade and it would still turn a profit.

There is really nothing to dispute about that.

My point in this is that just because he's rich, doesn't mean he doesn't care about his profit margin.

Some of the richest people will argue about every dollar and cent they should be earning.

I'm not saying McNair is a penny pincher, but I do think he will take notice if he sees a loss of profits due to loss of fan support.

Texian
12-05-2013, 04:54 PM
I am not being cavalier about anything. I pointed out lack of butts in the seat does not represent the income loss some people imagine. You have any source for the game day revenue of the Texans is "well over several million each Sunday?" - whatever that means.

Let's try a common sense appraisal of your assertion. Several is something more than 2 so at least 3 and "well over" let's go with 5 million in game day purchases exclusive of ticket cost. $5 million dollars in gross sales is $70 per person. $5 mil in net to the Texans would be at least double that. Either way, ain't happening. Not even close.

Fairly simple math IMO. What does the average fan spend at a game? $50? Seems high but we can go with that. For every 10000 people that don't show up the loss should be no more than $500,000 per game. I really think that is a really high estimate. I personally spend nothing in stadium when I go to games. The stadium would have to be less than half full to lose $2 million in concessions. I don't see that happening for a long time. Parking is more difficult to figure out. Don't most season ticket holders have parking passes anyways? Meh - just my opinion. I'll let you smart dudes hash it out. =P

Meh - Cak edited while I was posting and basically said the same thing with different figures. I'm out! =)

I'm taking that you guys have received a lot of paychecks but you haven't signed very many. Without all the accounting I'll use the KISS principle and basic arithmetic;

$1 million loss on public ticket sales.

50% of crowd could easily stay home for a 2-10 product, worse if product less than satisfactory year after year. Your $50 is a tad high but just, the avg fan spends outside the ticket price for parking, concessions, food, programs etc $40. Loss of revenue $2 million.

Loss of revenue on Suite Rentals = $500K

Then there are secondary reductions that result from any long term poor product displacement, marketing advertising, program advertising, stadium advertising, product advertising, etc.

On average a NFL club makes approx $300 million per year. If a club loses $10 million a yr from game day revenue that's 10% loss of revenue and a 30% loss of income.....Are they still making money? Yeah. As a CEO/CFO are you P'Od? Yes!....... Bottom line is they're NOT popping corks on Kirby Lane because they're losing money......I'm Done!

steelbtexan
12-05-2013, 05:02 PM
I voted "Yes", because I don't see how he can keep him around and be taken seriously after Kubiak so obviously lost the team. Add on how many years Kubiak has had to get it right. There are no excuses left for how a playoff "Super Bowl bound team" is 2-10.

If he hadn't lost the team I would be certain in Kubiak's return next season, but since he has.... I just can't fathom how he would be able to keep him. (Without the fans and players losing their minds)

Even with my vote of yes, there is still that fear of "we are on the right track".

BoB wont do anything traumatic, so I voted NO.

steelbtexan
12-05-2013, 05:08 PM
There is really nothing to dispute about that.

My point in this is that just because he's rich, doesn't mean he doesn't care about his profit margin.

Some of the richest people will argue about every dollar and cent they should be earning.

I'm not saying McNair is a penny pincher, but I do think he will take notice if he sees a loss of profits due to loss of fan support.

Remember BoB admired Bud as a person and looked at him as a mentor. He said this on Channel 13 after Bud's funeral.

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 05:11 PM
I'm taking that you guys have received a lot of paychecks but you haven't signed very many. Without all the accounting I'll use the KISS principle and basic arithmetic;

$1 million loss on public ticket sales.

50% of crowd could easily stay home for a 2-10 product, worse if product less than satisfactory year after year. Your $50 is a tad high but just, the avg fan spends outside the ticket price for parking, concessions, food, programs etc $40. Loss of revenue $2 million.

Loss of revenue on Suite Rentals = $500K

Then there are secondary reductions that result from any long term poor product displacement, marketing advertising, program advertising, stadium advertising, product advertising, etc.

On average a NFL club makes approx $300 million per year. If a club loses $10 million a yr from game day revenue that's 10% loss of revenue and a 30% loss of income.....Are they still making money? Yeah. As a CEO/CFO are you P'Od? Yes!....... Bottom line is they're NOT popping corks on Kirby Lane because they're losing money......I'm Done!




Other than the fact that you are just pulling numbers out of your ass. Where do you get that NFL clubs make 300 million per year?

Surreal McCoy
12-05-2013, 05:28 PM
How are the fans perspectives on the Texans bad for McNair's businesses? If the fans are ticked off about Kubiak, how does that translate to some power plants on the East Coast, a Biotech firm, a Real Estate company, and some venture capital things?

McNair's not running some Mytiburger franchise that local people are going to stop going to if they don't like what he does with the team. The fans in Houston are NOT the people McNair's businesses deal with. The only time their his customers is when they're going to the games. And if he's not looking at that as his main source of income, then he's not that worried about what the fans think.

For someone like a McNair or a Jerry Jones, owning a sports team is their way of playing Madden. This is a game. They want to win. It's exciting. But if someone is burning a Schaub jersey outside the stadium, it's not the end of their world.

Far too much sense in this post.

Texian
12-05-2013, 05:29 PM
Other than the fact that you are just pulling numbers out of your ass. Where do you get that NFL clubs make 300 million per year?

The NFL makes approx $9.5 Billion per year, (Forbes or you can Google it) divide by 32 teams. As to your derogatory comments, apology accepted, in advance.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2013/08/17/how-the-national-football-league-can-reach-25-billion-in-annual-revenues/

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 05:35 PM
People are talking about the "Patriots Model", but what I recall from back in the day was McNair talking about modeling the team on the STEELERs model.

It looks like InsideOp heard the same thing:
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1953329&postcount=29

I think the Patriots Model thing came up later... around 2006 or so. But I thought I remembered him saying something back in 2001 that we were going to try to model the team on the Steelers.

Spot on TPN - that is exactly what I remember.

I'm taking that you guys have received a lot of paychecks but you haven't signed very many. Without all the accounting I'll use the KISS principle and basic arithmetic;

Yeah, might want to get your basic math right before being condescending chief. As 2012 mentioned you are just making up numbers, but ...

On average a NFL club makes approx $300 million per year. If a club loses $10 million a yr from game day revenue that's 10% loss of revenue and a 30% loss of income.....Are they still making money? Yeah. As a CEO/CFO are you P'Od? Yes!....... Bottom line is they're NOT popping corks on Kirby Lane because they're losing money......I'm Done!

First off you said significantly more than several million per game. Now you get to $1 mil. Kinda big difference.

I don't know what you were CEO of but I bet your accountant knew $10 mil is not 10% of $300 mil. Big fancy business owner like you should also know $1 mil in lost revenue isn't going to be anything close to $1 mil in lost profits after all the middlemen and other expenses are accounted.

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 05:35 PM
The NFL makes approx $9.5 Billion per year, (Forbes or you can Google it) divide by 32 teams. As to your derogatory comments, apology accepted, in advance.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2013/08/17/how-the-national-football-league-can-reach-25-billion-in-annual-revenues/

You know amazon has 70 billion in revenue but only made 15 billion. Do you know the difference? Again you are making numbers up par for the course

Exascor
12-05-2013, 05:39 PM
I'm taking that you guys have received a lot of paychecks but you haven't signed very many. Without all the accounting I'll use the KISS principle and basic arithmetic;

$1 million loss on public ticket sales.

50% of crowd could easily stay home for a 2-10 product, worse if product less than satisfactory year after year. Your $50 is a tad high but just, the avg fan spends outside the ticket price for parking, concessions, food, programs etc $40. Loss of revenue $2 million.

Loss of revenue on Suite Rentals = $500K

Then there are secondary reductions that result from any long term poor product displacement, marketing advertising, program advertising, stadium advertising, product advertising, etc.

On average a NFL club makes approx $300 million per year. If a club loses $10 million a yr from game day revenue that's 10% loss of revenue and a 30% loss of income.....Are they still making money? Yeah. As a CEO/CFO are you P'Od? Yes!....... Bottom line is they're NOT popping corks on Kirby Lane because they're losing money......I'm Done!Other than 1.4 million not equaling 2 million, I'd add that losing $10 million a year in lost revenue is much less than what he'll lose by doing what you and I want - firing Rick Smith and the entire coaching staff.

I agree with the posters like Pencil Neck - McNair doesn't own the Texans just to make money. It's a trophy company. Prestige. Look at me. Does he want to win? Of course. That's more of the look at what I did mentality. Does he want to make money? Again - of course. I just think that winning is more important than making a little less money for McNair.

If McNair fires anyone it will be because of the record on the field and not the slightly less money in his pockets.

Texian
12-05-2013, 05:49 PM
Far too much sense in this post.

Actually it is a BIG Bowl of Poppycock with a LARGE side Hubris. To pretend that one knows what it is like to be Jerry Jones and Bob McNair is nothing more than a whole lot of silliness. Until you can walk in those shoes, then and only then can one know what it is truly like to be Jerry and Bob.

Texian
12-05-2013, 05:53 PM
You know amazon has 70 billion in revenue but only made 15 billion. Do you know the difference? Again you are making numbers up par for the course

I don't make up numbers. The NFL makes $9.5 Billion. Divide by 32 teams. If a NFL team loses $3 mil per game day X 10 game days = approx 10% of gross revenues.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 05:56 PM
Actually it is a BIG Bowl of Poppycock with a LARGE side Hubris. To pretend that one knows what it is like to be Jerry Jones and Bob McNair is nothing more than a whole lot of silliness. Until you can walk in those shoes, then and only then can one know what it is truly like to be Jerry and Bob.

And that's exactly what you're doing.

Texian
12-05-2013, 05:57 PM
Other than 1.4 million not equaling 2 million, I'd add that losing $10 million a year in lost revenue is much less than what he'll lose by doing what you and I want - firing Rick Smith and the entire coaching staff.

I agree with the posters like Pencil Neck - McNair doesn't own the Texans just to make money. It's a trophy company. Prestige. Look at me. Does he want to win? Of course. That's more of the look at what I did mentality. Does he want to make money? Again - of course. I just think that winning is more important than making a little less money for McNair.

If McNair fires anyone it will be because of the record on the field and not the slightly less money in his pockets.

The real truth here is you don't have a clue as to why McNair owns the Texans and you don't know why McNair does what he does. All you are telling us is about some dream you're having and you're pretending to be Bob McNair.

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 06:00 PM
The real truth here is you don't have a clue as to why McNair owns the Texans and you don't know why McNair does what he does. All you are telling us is about some dream you're having and you're pretending to be Bob McNair.

So what are you doing? You're doing EXACTLY the same thing. And you're judging him on it.

If he was as worried about the bottom line as you say he is, he'd be doing other things. There are a lot easier ways to make tons and tons of cash than owning a sports franchise.

Double Barrel
12-05-2013, 06:07 PM
There is really nothing to dispute about that.

My point in this is that just because he's rich, doesn't mean he doesn't care about his profit margin.

Some of the richest people will argue about every dollar and cent they should be earning.

I'm not saying McNair is a penny pincher, but I do think he will take notice if he sees a loss of profits due to loss of fan support.

I agree with you. I do not think he bought the franchise in a completely altruistic desire to bring football back to Houston.

I feel it is a combination of both wanting a winning franchise and a profitable business. To what degree of each is a matter of pure speculation, as none of us has the inside track on McNair and his public persona is always going to be crafted for a specific presentation.

Heck, we have no idea if the dude ever pounds the table and demands anything from his staff, or if he's cool like a Buddhist monk and never shows that kind of emotion. He's still sort of an enigma to Texans fans after 12 seasons, so a lot of the speculation by fans is mere projection.

Texian
12-05-2013, 06:09 PM
Spot on TPN - that is exactly what I remember.



Yeah, might want to get your basic math right before being condescending chief. As 2012 mentioned you are just making up numbers, but ...



First off you said significantly more than several million per game. Now you get to $1 mil. Kinda big difference.

I don't know what you were CEO of but I bet your accountant knew $10 mil is not 10% of $300 mil. Big fancy business owner like you should also know $1 mil in lost revenue isn't going to be anything close to $1 mil in lost profits after all the middlemen and other expenses are accounted.

I respond in a way that I am responded to. Condescension? I learned some of that from you. You're pretty good at it yourself.

Here is what I said Chief, $1 million loss on public ticket sales. Notice the words "public ticket sales". Apparently you skipped over the $2 mil loss on the avg per person spending outside of public ticket sales.

$10 million? Typo Chief, thanks for pointing it out. $3 million loss on gmae day revenues X 10 game days = $30 million which is 10% of gross revenues, 30% loss of ESTIMATED Income.

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 06:10 PM
I don't make up numbers. The NFL makes $9.5 Billion. Divide by 32 teams. If a NFL team loses $3 mil per game day X 10 game days = approx 10% of gross revenues.


Do you know the difference between revenue and profit? Based on your posts I'm not yes you do

Texian
12-05-2013, 06:12 PM
If he was as worried about the bottom line as you say he is, he'd be doing other things. There are a lot easier ways to make tons and tons of cash than owning a sports franchise.

You're doing it again.....

Texian
12-05-2013, 06:19 PM
Do you know the difference between revenue and profit? Based on your posts I'm not yes you do

Yes, revenue is derived from sales. I don't believe I discussed profit, I did mention Income though.

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 06:21 PM
Yes, revenue is derived from sales. I don't believe I discussed profit, I did mention Income though.

You said nfl teams make 300million. What a team makes isn't its revenue figure. You did the same for the nfl

The Pencil Neck
12-05-2013, 06:35 PM
You're doing it again.....

Please.

Tell us again how worried he is about the money he's going to lose by keeping Kubiak... if that's what he chooses to do.

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 06:39 PM
Here is what I said Chief, $1 million loss on public ticket sales. Notice the words "public ticket sales". Apparently you skipped over the $2 mil loss on the avg per person spending outside of public ticket sales.

Nope, here is what you said 1st:

You're underestimating the amount of revenue loss. Just based on your cavalier dismissal of revenues is well over several million each Sunday.

Then 2nd:

If a club loses $10 million a yr from game day revenue

That is $1 mil per game.

Now you are saying:

$10 million? Typo Chief, thanks for pointing it out.

Your attempt to get to $3 mil in lost revenue was purely made up and unrealistic. $1 mil in lost ticket sales is roughly 11,500 tickets per game. That would mean no single game ticket sales at all AND a significant number of unsold season tickets.

Texian
12-05-2013, 06:40 PM
You said nfl teams make 300million. What a team makes isn't its revenue figure. You did the same for the nfl

Yes an NFL team makes approximately $300 million in gross revenues each year.

If you don't like the word "makes" feel free to insert generates, derives, acquires, receives or what ever word you are most comfortable with.

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 06:43 PM
Yes an NFL team makes approximately $300 million in gross revenues each year.

If you don't like the word "makes" feel free to insert generates, derives, acquires, receives or what ever word you are most comfortable with.

When you say a company makes x a year that's profit unless you state otherwise. I did point this out with my amazon post that you quoted and obviously missed it there too

steelbtexan
12-05-2013, 06:48 PM
So what are you doing? You're doing EXACTLY the same thing. And you're judging him on it.

If he was as worried about the bottom line as you say he is, he'd be doing other things. There are a lot easier ways to make tons and tons of cash than owning a sports franchise.

Taking basically 100-200 mil and turning it into 1.5 bil in a decade isn't a bad return on BoB's $$$$,the kicker is there's very litlle risk in owning an NFL franchise.

Tell me what type businesses you can make that kind of $$$$ with little risk?

Texian
12-05-2013, 06:48 PM
Nope, here is what you said 1st:



Then 2nd:



That is $1 mil per game.

Now you are saying:



Your attempt to get to $3 mil in lost revenue was purely made up and unrealistic. $1 mil in lost ticket sales is roughly 11,500 tickets per game. That would mean no single game ticket sales at all AND a significant number of unsold season tickets.

you need to go back and re-read....you're try to make a there where there is no there. How many season ticket are there? I'm assuming 60,000. And Yes, not unreasonable for a large number of single game tickets go unsold for a 2-10 team. I have seen pictures of Reliant with less than 50% of seats occupied.

Texian
12-05-2013, 06:52 PM
When you say a company makes x a year that's profit unless you state otherwise. I did point this out with my amazon post that you quoted and obviously missed it there too

Excuse me. The team PRODUCES $300 million in Revenues.

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 06:52 PM
Taking basically 100-200 mil and turning it into 1.5 bil in a decade isn't a bad return on BoB's $$$$,the kicker is there's very litlle risk in owning an NFL franchise.

Tell me what type businesses you can make that kind of $$$$ with little risk?


Bob paid 700m along with his friends. His return is around 7% a year over more than 10 years

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 06:53 PM
Excuse me. The team PRODUCES $300 million in Revenues.


That's on avg which is far different than median too

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 07:34 PM
I have seen pictures of Reliant with less than 50% of seats occupied.

Whoohoo for you. The game was sold out as has every Texans game been including after the 2-14 season.

Your numbers mean every game blacked out.

Texian
12-05-2013, 08:12 PM
Whoohoo for you. The game was sold out as has every Texans game been including after the 2-14 season.

Your numbers mean every game blacked out.

NO my numbers mean that during your proposed sellout there were quite a few single game tickets unsold and there were 50,000 no show fans who weren't there spending $40 a head and most of the rental suites went unsold.

aussie_texan
12-05-2013, 08:16 PM
if we lose this game then mcnair will fire kubiak this week, 100%

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 08:24 PM
NO my numbers mean that during your proposed sellout there were quite a few single game tickets unsold and there were 50,000 no show fans who weren't there spending $40 a head and most of the rental suites went unsold.


Where are you getting the 50k fan number from?

Seegara
12-05-2013, 08:26 PM
Kubiak is a poor head coach, but there have been worse. Don't count on him getting the boot. There are only so many brilliant head coaches; not every team can have one.

Yes, he should be fired. Chances are he won't be.

Rey
12-05-2013, 08:37 PM
if we lose this game then mcnair will fire kubiak this week, 100%

I heard that from a couple places this week.

What makes you say that?

Texian
12-05-2013, 08:42 PM
Where are you getting the 50k fan number from?

Why don't you use the number you would like on a more than half empty stadium.

2012Champs
12-05-2013, 08:51 PM
Why don't you use the number you would like on a more than half empty stadium.

You are estimating only 30% attendance which is comical and why I asked where you got it from

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 08:56 PM
NO my numbers mean that during your proposed sellout there were quite a few single game tickets unsold and there were 50,000 no show fans who weren't there spending $40 a head and most of the rental suites went unsold.

Seriously, take a remedial reading course.

Past - There was no "proposed sellout" about it. Every Texans game to date has been sold out. If you saw the game then it was sold out. People have not shown up but they have been wasting purchased tickets. It has never been anywhere close to 50k no shows.

Future - The "your numbers" comment was about the future and your speculated ticket sales loss next season.

FYI - club seats and suites are PSLs. The only way you find them for individual games is resales by the owners which does not count as unsold single game tickets because they are already paid for.

By the way, the paid attendance is listed at the bottom of each GameHQ on espn. For example the paid attendance of the recent Jags game was 71,659. NE was 71,769.

Mr. White
12-06-2013, 08:30 AM
Is it too late to change my vote to "yes?"

UKTexan
12-06-2013, 10:32 AM
I've just voted on this and even though we've hit another new low, I still voted no. I honestly don't hink he will, I hope I'm wrong. On a side note, it's amazing how off topic this thread has gone.

darnbni99a
12-06-2013, 11:14 AM
i hope so…..

Vinny
12-06-2013, 11:16 AM
what would the comcast turtles do?

gwallaia
12-06-2013, 11:24 AM
No link but Peter King reporting Kubiak will be fired today

steelbtexan
12-06-2013, 11:27 AM
Bob paid 700m along with his friends. His return is around 7% a year over more than 10 years

He got 300 mil from Reliant over a 10 yr period.

Harris county taxpayers pitched in another 200 mil

I dont know how much the minority owners paid but I am assuming around 100 mil. 300+200+100 mil = 600 mil if my math is correct. This means BoB paid out of his pocket 100 mil. You can figure out the % BoB is making on his $$$$ with little to no risk.

Rey
12-06-2013, 11:28 AM
No link but Peter King reporting Kubiak will be fired today

Sweet.

steelbtexan
12-06-2013, 11:30 AM
Is it too late to change my vote to "yes?"

I want to change my vote too.

Last night was a pitful display.

The Pencil Neck
12-06-2013, 11:33 AM
Taking basically 100-200 mil and turning it into 1.5 bil in a decade isn't a bad return on BoB's $$$$,the kicker is there's very litlle risk in owning an NFL franchise.

Tell me what type businesses you can make that kind of $$$$ with little risk?

The kinds of businesses billionaires have access to. McNair is now in real estate, biotech, and investments. When you've got that kind of money, you can invest it relatively safely and still make big profits.

Double Barrel
12-06-2013, 11:34 AM
This decision is about Bob McNair more than any other time. It will define him for years.

If he somehow tries to justify keeping Kubiak & Co. after this dismal season (and that's putting a positive spin on it), he will be seen as a hack owner that does not have the balls to do what needs to be done to build a winning franchise. He will be known as Boob McNair.

I think he has to fire Kubiak after seeing this 11 game losing streak (and counting), especially watching that garbage last night. Kubiak has lost this team. They are playing undisciplined football, some look lost, others look like they've checked out, and honestly only see about 3-4 players who are still giving 100% (and we know who they are).

Kubiak's generic reply to everything - "It's my fault. It's on me." - needs to be accepted. He's telling the world that this team represents him, and everything that is happening is ultimately his responsibility.

Now let's see if Mr. McNair will hold him accountable.

SMDH getting swept by the friggin' Jaguars. Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe it.

HoustonFrog
12-06-2013, 11:35 AM
No link but Peter King reporting Kubiak will be fired today

Here you go


@SI_PeterKing I'm pretty sure Gary Kubiak won't survive the season as Houston coach. He may not even survive the day.
10:04am - 6 Dec 13

@SI_PeterKing Apologies about using word "survive" with Kubiak. Poor choice of words. Meant he likely won't be kept at end of yr. End could come today.

The Pencil Neck
12-06-2013, 11:36 AM
Like I said: I think it's all about if McNair thinks Kubiak can produce a winner here. I voted "Yes" he would fire him because I thought that losing this much -- especially after how high hopes were -- would shake his confidence in Smithiak. I expect both of them to be fired.

Rey
12-06-2013, 11:41 AM
Kubiaks about to be fired/resign.

TheIronDuke
12-06-2013, 11:45 AM
Great, now Wade will get us a win and will be our HC.

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2013, 11:50 AM
Can't see him getting fired. I expect a resignation or reassignment.

Should he be fired, I hope it is McNair and not Smith doing it. Smith needs to go as well.

2012Champs
12-06-2013, 11:57 AM
He got 300 mil from Reliant over a 10 yr period.

Harris county taxpayers pitched in another 200 mil

I dont know how much the minority owners paid but I am assuming around 100 mil. 300+200+100 mil = 600 mil if my math is correct. This means BoB paid out of his pocket 100 mil. You can figure out the % BoB is making on his $$$$ with little to no risk.




I dont think you understand how the numbers came together for the deal. I do not believe that Reliant nor Harris county purchased ownership of the Texans. Also I am sure in a 700MM dollar deal Mcnair had to put up more than 100million to obtain enough ownership rights to become the majority owner. Chuck Watson orginally owned 15% Im sure he didnt put up 105million of his own money to only have 15% ownership when 100 million got Bob that majority


also since you have a hard time with facts or math Bob doesnt own 100% currently so the Forbes estimate of 1.4 billion cant be used to calculate his return.

edwardc5637
12-06-2013, 12:32 PM
He just did it.

bash
12-06-2013, 12:34 PM
McNair obviously trolls these forums and was overwhelmingly persuaded to can kubes based on the ratio of yes vs no

Double Barrel
12-06-2013, 12:38 PM
Crazy to see the numbers. 95 to 31 at this point believing that McNair would keep Kubiak, and then he does the completely unexpected and fired him during a season.

Maybe McNair will continue to challenge the status quo and think bold about the future. This team has talent, and there is no reason to believe that we have to endure another 4-5 year rebuild.

The Pencil Neck
12-06-2013, 01:06 PM
Crazy to see the numbers. 95 to 31 at this point believing that McNair would keep Kubiak, and then he does the completely unexpected and fired him during a season.

Maybe McNair will continue to challenge the status quo and think bold about the future. This team has talent, and there is no reason to believe that we have to endure another 4-5 year rebuild.

I think you're reading that wrong.

It was 95 to 31 thinking he would FIRE him, not keep him.

Double Barrel
12-06-2013, 01:08 PM
I think you're reading that wrong.

It was 95 to 31 thinking he would FIRE him, not keep him.

oh, yeah, you're right! All this time I was thinking it was the other way around. d'oh! :pop:

Thanks for the clarification.

Dread-Head
12-06-2013, 01:52 PM
Yes....

UKTexan
12-06-2013, 02:07 PM
I got it wrong

Vinny
12-06-2013, 02:10 PM
I got it wrong

welcome aboard. I think Porky was wrong once or twice as well as a few others around here. Personally I've been casually wrong ever since I discovered message boards.

UKTexan
12-06-2013, 02:13 PM
welcome aboard. I think Porky was wrong once or twice as well as a few others around here. Personally I've been casually wrong ever since I discovered message boards.

Haha, glad I'm in good company

HOU-TEX
12-06-2013, 02:15 PM
I voted he would be fired, but said he might not.

So, I couldn't have been wrong.........just wishy washy

Rey
12-06-2013, 02:17 PM
I voted he would be fired, but said he might not.

So, I couldn't have been wrong.........just wishy washy

No worries.

I heard Ben Tate say he now considers McNair Wishy washy for firing kubiak.

So you're in good company.

aussie_texan
12-06-2013, 10:07 PM
if we lose this game then mcnair will fire kubiak this week, 100%

:hurrah:





:kitten: