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bah007
11-30-2013, 06:19 PM
QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville
2. Derek Carr - Fresno St
3. Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M
4. Tajh Boyd - Clemson
5. Zach Mettenberger - LSU

- A lot of people would have Mariota and Hundley on this list but they simply aren't ready. Coming out this year would be a terrible decision for both, in my opinion.

HB
1. Bishop Sankey - Washington
2. Lache Seastrunk - Baylor
3. Melvin Gordon - Wisconsin
4. Ka'Deem Carey - Arizona
5. Charles Sims - West Virginia

- Not as high on De'Anthony Thomas as most.

FB
1. Trey Millard - Oklahoma
2. J.C. Copeland - LSU
3. Jay Prosch - Auburn
4. Ryan Hewitt - Stanford

- Not much NFL talent after Millard this year.

WR
1. Mike Evans - Texas A&M
2. Sammy Watkins - Clemson
3. Marqise Lee - USC
4. Jordan Matthews - Vanderbilt
5. Davante Adams - Fresno St

TE
1. Jace Amaro - Texas Tech
2. Eric Ebron - North Carolina
3. Austin Sefarian-Jenkins - Washington
4. C.J. Fiedorowicz - Iowa
5. Nick O'Leary - Florida St

OT
1. Jake Matthews - Texas A&M
2. Cyrus Kouandjio - Alabama
3. Cameron Erving - Florida St
4. Taylor Lewan - Michigan
5. Antonio Richardson - Tennessee

OG
1. Gabe Jackson - Mississippi St
2. David Yankey - Stanford
3. Cyril Richardson - Baylor
4. Xavier Su'a-Filo - UCLA
5. Zack Martin - Notre Dame

- Richardson and Martin are both college OTs that I expect to move down to OG in the pros.

OC
1. Travis Swanson - Arkansas
2. Bryan Stork - Florida St
3. Hroniss Grasu - Oregon
4. Russell Bodine - North Carolina
5. Tyler Larsen - Utah St


DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney - South Carolina
2. Stephon Tuitt - Notre Dame
3. Scott Crichton - Oregon St
4. Trent Murphy - Stanford
5. Jackson Jeffcoat - Texas

- Big fan of Taylor Hart, Oregon as well. Just missed the top five here.

DT
1. Louis Nix - Notre Dame
2. Ra'Shede Hageman - Minnesota
3. Timmy Jernigan - Florida St
4. Aaron Donald - Pittsburgh
5. Kelcy Quarles - South Carolina

- Will Sutton is a big time sleeper here. Would have been a first round pick last year but has had a rough time this year.

OLB
1. Anthony Barr - UCLA
2. Khalil Mack - Buffalo
3. Kyle Van Noy - BYU
4. Ryan Shazier - Ohio St
5. Eric Kendricks - UCLA

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley - Alabama
2. A.J. Johnson - Tennessee
3. Christian Jones - Florida St
4. Yawin Smallwood - Connecticut
5. Chris Borland - Wisconsin

CB
1. Justin Gilbert - Oklahoma St
2. Jason Verrett - TCU
3. Ifo Ekpre-Olomu - Oregon
4. Marcus Roberson - Florida
5. Kyle Fuller - Virginia Tech

- Lot of good corners this year, depending on who declares. Also really like Darqueze Dennard, Michigan St.

S
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix - Alabama
2. Lamarcus Joyner - Florida St
3. Craig Loston - LSU
4. Tre Boston - North Carolina
5. Calvin Pryor - Louisville

K
1. Jeff Budzien - Northwestern
2. Anthony Fera - Texas
3. Cairo Santos - Tulane

P
1. Kirby Van Der Kamp - Iowa St
2. Cody Webster - Purdue
3. Brian Schmiedebusch - Bowling Green

WolverineFan
11-30-2013, 06:23 PM
Good stuff. Rep your way.

BTW, Melvin Gordon is allegedly returning for his junior year.

bah007
11-30-2013, 06:26 PM
Good stuff. Rep your way.

BTW, Melvin Gordon is allegedly returning for his junior year.

Had heard that rumor. I didn't list players based on whether they were declaring or not. Just based on where I grade them at this point.

Only reason I pointed that out with the QBs was because I expected a lot of responses about those guys being left off. I actually have Mariota at #6 and Hundley at #7.

Texian
11-30-2013, 06:30 PM
Very good, you did well.

Honoring Earl 34
11-30-2013, 07:18 PM
Good job .... Charles Sims , that's a blast from the past .

bah007
11-30-2013, 07:31 PM
Good job .... Charles Sims , that's a blast from the past .

No kidding. Still can't figure that one out. He'd be getting plenty of work down here, plus he'd be on a better team.

bah007
12-09-2013, 12:47 PM
Getting a little deeper into the draft now. Still have a lot of guys to cover but here's what I have so far.

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville
2. Zach Mettenberger - LSU
3. Blake Bortles - UCF
4. Derek Carr - Fresno St
5. A.J. McCarron - Alabama
6. Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M
7. Brett Hundley - UCLA (please go back to school)
8. Tajh Boyd - Clemson
9. Aaron Murray - Georgia

HB
1. Bishop Sankey - Washington
2. Lache Seastrunk - Baylor
3. Ka'Deem Carey - Arizona
4. Carlos Hyde - Ohio St
5. Charles Sims - West Virginia
6. Tre Mason - Auburn
7. De'Anthony Thomas - Oregon
8. Devonta Freeman - Florida St
9. Andre Williams - Boston College

FB
1. Trey Millard - Oklahoma
2. Jay Prosch - Auburn
3. J.C. Copeland - LSU
4. Ryan Hewitt - Stanford

WR
1. Sammy Watkins - Clemson
2. Marqise Lee - USC
3. Mike Evans - Texas A&M
4. Jordan Matthews - Vanderbilt
5. Allen Robinson - Penn St
6. Kelvin Benjamin - Florida St
7. Davante Adams - Fresno St
8. Donte Moncrief - Ole Miss
9. Odell Beckham - LSU
10. Paul Richardson - Colorado
11. Brandin Cooks - Oregon St

TE
1. Eric Ebron - North Carolina
2. Jace Amaro - Texas Tech
3. Austin Sefarian-Jenkins - Washington
4. C.J. Fiedorowicz - Iowa
5. Nick O'Leary - Florida St
6. Arthur Lynch - Georgia

OT
1. Jake Matthews - Texas A&M
2. Cameron Erving - Florida St
3. Cyrus Kouandjio - Alabama
4. Antonio Richardson - Tennessee
5. Brandon Scherrf - Iowa
6. Taylor Lewan - Michigan
7. Greg Robinson - Auburn
8. Corey Robinson - South Carolina
9. Charles Leno - Boise St
10. James Hurst - North Carolina
11. La'el Collins - LSU
12. JuWuan James - Tennessee
13. Morgan Moses - Virginia

OG
1. Gabe Jackson - Mississippi St
2. Cyril Richardson - Baylor
3. David Yankey - Stanford
4. Xavier Su'a-Filo - UCLA
5. Zack Martin - Notre Dame

OC
1. Bryan Stork - Florida St
2. Travis Swanson - Arkansas
3. Tyler Larsen - Utah St
4. Russell Bodine - North Carolina


DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney - South Carolina
2. Stephon Tuitt - Notre Dame
3. Trent Murphy - Stanford
4. Scott Crichton - Oregon St
5. Jackson Jeffcoat - Texas
6. Taylor Hart - Oregon
7. Trevor Reilly - Utah

DT
1. Louis Nix - Notre Dame
2. Ra'Shede Hageman - Minnesota
3. Timmy Jernigan - Florida St
4. Aaron Donald - Pittsburgh
5. Dominique Easley - Florida
6. Anthony Johnson - LSU
7. Kelcy Quarles - South Carolina
8. Will Sutton - Arizona St

OLB
1. Anthony Barr - UCLA
2. Khalil Mack - Buffalo
3. Kyle Van Noy - BYU
4. Ryan Shazier - Ohio St
5. Demarcus Lawrence - Boise St
6. Eric Kendricks - UCLA

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley - Alabama
2. A.J. Johnson - Tennessee
3. Christian Jones - Florida St
4. Yawin Smallwood - Connecticut
5. Chris Borland - Wisconsin
6. Andrew Jackson - Western Kentucky

CB
1. Justin Gilbert - Oklahoma St
2. Ifo Ekpre-Olomu - Oregon
3. Darqueze Dennard - Michigan St
4. Jason Verrett - TCU
5. Loucheiz Purifoy - Florida
6. Marcus Roberson - Florida
7. Bradley Roby - Ohio St

S
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix - Alabama
2. Lamarcus Joyner - Florida St
3. Craig Loston - LSU
4. Calvin Pryor - Louisville
5. Tre Boston - North Carolina
6. Deone Bucannon – Washington St


K
1. Cairo Santos - Tulane
2. Jeff Budzien - Northwestern
3. Anthony Fera - Texas

P
1. Cody Webster - Purdue
2. Steven Clark - Auburn
3. Kirby Van Der Kamp - Iowa St

WolverineFan
12-09-2013, 02:14 PM
HB
1. Bishop Sankey - Washington
2. Lache Seastrunk - Baylor
3. Ka'Deem Carey - Arizona
4. Carlos Hyde - Ohio St
5. Charles Sims - West Virginia
6. Tre Mason - Auburn
7. De'Anthony Thomas - Oregon
8. Devonta Freeman - Florida St
9. Andre Williams - Boston College

CB
1. Justin Gilbert - Oklahoma St
2. Ifo Ekpre-Olomu - Oregon
3. Darqueze Dennard - Michigan St
4. Jason Verrett - TCU
5. Loucheiz Purifoy - Florida
6. Marcus Roberson - Florida
7. Bradley Roby - Ohio St


1) I'm glad to see you giving Freeman some love at RB. Everyone keeps talking about Wilder, but I just don't see it. He's a physical specimen with no noticeable football skills. He's already been surpassed at RB by a converted Safety. Freeman has great vision and is a three-down back who can block and catch. He's the unsung hero of the FSU offense this year.

2) Kyle Fuller should be somewhere on that list at CB.

Mr teX
12-09-2013, 03:01 PM
Getting a little deeper into the draft now. Still have a lot of guys to cover but here's what I have so far.

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville
2. Zach Mettenberger - LSU
3. Blake Bortles - UCF
4. Derek Carr - Fresno St
5. A.J. McCarron - Alabama
6. Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M
7. Brett Hundley - UCLA (please go back to school)
8. Tajh Boyd - Clemson
9. Aaron Murray - Georgia

[

Lol at the bolded.........I agree, the physical tools are definitely there..needs to grow as a passer.

bah007
12-09-2013, 04:01 PM
1) I'm glad to see you giving Freeman some love at RB. Everyone keeps talking about Wilder, but I just don't see it. He's a physical specimen with no noticeable football skills. He's already been surpassed at RB by a converted Safety. Freeman has great vision and is a three-down back who can block and catch. He's the unsung hero of the FSU offense this year.

2) Kyle Fuller should be somewhere on that list at CB.

Wilder looks like he should be playing LB or H-Back.

Fuller is probably #7b for me right now but I haven't seen enough of him yet to feel comfortable adding him to my rankings.

bah007
12-09-2013, 04:03 PM
Lol at the bolded.........I agree, the physical tools are definitely there..needs to grow as a passer.

He and Mariota both need the extra year. I think they would benefit tremendously.

I would actually like to see Manziel go back for another year as well but that doesn't seem likely. I hope he at least gets to sit on the bench for whoever drafts him. I don't like his chances if he's thrown straight into the fire.

TexansSeminole
12-09-2013, 07:25 PM
1) I'm glad to see you giving Freeman some love at RB. Everyone keeps talking about Wilder, but I just don't see it. He's a physical specimen with no noticeable football skills. He's already been surpassed at RB by a converted Safety. Freeman has great vision and is a three-down back who can block and catch. He's the unsung hero of the FSU offense this year.


I agree but the question is, will he come out?

TexansFTW
12-17-2013, 04:44 PM
Will Mike Evans stay a top 10 pick if he continues to run a 4.6 at the combine?

WolverineFan
12-17-2013, 04:54 PM
I agree but the question is, will he come out?

Freeman or Wilder?

I think Freeman goes back for another year. I think Wilder goes pro because if he doesn't he will be the #3 RB next year. He has the physical measureables that some team will fall in love with.

TexansSeminole
12-17-2013, 05:17 PM
Freeman or Wilder?

I think Freeman goes back for another year. I think Wilder goes pro because if he doesn't he will be the #3 RB next year. He has the physical measureables that some team will fall in love with.

I was asking about Freeman, but I agree 100% with what you said.

I see Freeman coming back, but Wilder is pretty much a goner for the reason you pointed out.

Anyway, that's why I haven't really been pumping Freeman over Wilder for this draft.

dalemurphy
12-18-2013, 01:33 AM
Getting a little deeper into the draft now. Still have a lot of guys to cover but here's what I have so far.

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville
2. Zach Mettenberger - LSU
3. Blake Bortles - UCF
4. Derek Carr - Fresno St
5. A.J. McCarron - Alabama
6. Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M
7. Brett Hundley - UCLA (please go back to school)
8. Tajh Boyd - Clemson
9. Aaron Murray - Georgia

HB
1. Bishop Sankey - Washington
2. Lache Seastrunk - Baylor
3. Ka'Deem Carey - Arizona
4. Carlos Hyde - Ohio St
5. Charles Sims - West Virginia
6. Tre Mason - Auburn
7. De'Anthony Thomas - Oregon
8. Devonta Freeman - Florida St
9. Andre Williams - Boston College

FB
1. Trey Millard - Oklahoma
2. Jay Prosch - Auburn
3. J.C. Copeland - LSU
4. Ryan Hewitt - Stanford

WR
1. Sammy Watkins - Clemson
2. Marqise Lee - USC
3. Mike Evans - Texas A&M
4. Jordan Matthews - Vanderbilt
5. Allen Robinson - Penn St
6. Kelvin Benjamin - Florida St
7. Davante Adams - Fresno St
8. Donte Moncrief - Ole Miss
9. Odell Beckham - LSU
10. Paul Richardson - Colorado
11. Brandin Cooks - Oregon St

TE
1. Eric Ebron - North Carolina
2. Jace Amaro - Texas Tech
3. Austin Sefarian-Jenkins - Washington
4. C.J. Fiedorowicz - Iowa
5. Nick O'Leary - Florida St
6. Arthur Lynch - Georgia

OT
1. Jake Matthews - Texas A&M
2. Cameron Erving - Florida St
3. Cyrus Kouandjio - Alabama
4. Antonio Richardson - Tennessee
5. Brandon Scherrf - Iowa
6. Taylor Lewan - Michigan
7. Greg Robinson - Auburn
8. Corey Robinson - South Carolina
9. Charles Leno - Boise St
10. James Hurst - North Carolina
11. La'el Collins - LSU
12. JuWuan James - Tennessee
13. Morgan Moses - Virginia

OG
1. Gabe Jackson - Mississippi St
2. Cyril Richardson - Baylor
3. David Yankey - Stanford
4. Xavier Su'a-Filo - UCLA
5. Zack Martin - Notre Dame

OC
1. Bryan Stork - Florida St
2. Travis Swanson - Arkansas
3. Tyler Larsen - Utah St
4. Russell Bodine - North Carolina


DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney - South Carolina
2. Stephon Tuitt - Notre Dame
3. Trent Murphy - Stanford
4. Scott Crichton - Oregon St
5. Jackson Jeffcoat - Texas
6. Taylor Hart - Oregon
7. Trevor Reilly - Utah

DT
1. Louis Nix - Notre Dame
2. Ra'Shede Hageman - Minnesota
3. Timmy Jernigan - Florida St
4. Aaron Donald - Pittsburgh
5. Dominique Easley - Florida
6. Anthony Johnson - LSU
7. Kelcy Quarles - South Carolina
8. Will Sutton - Arizona St

OLB
1. Anthony Barr - UCLA
2. Khalil Mack - Buffalo
3. Kyle Van Noy - BYU
4. Ryan Shazier - Ohio St
5. Demarcus Lawrence - Boise St
6. Eric Kendricks - UCLA

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley - Alabama
2. A.J. Johnson - Tennessee
3. Christian Jones - Florida St
4. Yawin Smallwood - Connecticut
5. Chris Borland - Wisconsin
6. Andrew Jackson - Western Kentucky

CB
1. Justin Gilbert - Oklahoma St
2. Ifo Ekpre-Olomu - Oregon
3. Darqueze Dennard - Michigan St
4. Jason Verrett - TCU
5. Loucheiz Purifoy - Florida
6. Marcus Roberson - Florida
7. Bradley Roby - Ohio St

S
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix - Alabama
2. Lamarcus Joyner - Florida St
3. Craig Loston - LSU
4. Calvin Pryor - Louisville
5. Tre Boston - North Carolina
6. Deone Bucannon – Washington St


K
1. Cairo Santos - Tulane
2. Jeff Budzien - Northwestern
3. Anthony Fera - Texas

P
1. Cody Webster - Purdue
2. Steven Clark - Auburn
3. Kirby Van Der Kamp - Iowa St


The silver lining of this disastrous season is right here... Given that our offensive struggles (from a personnel standpoint) this year is almost entirely the result of poor play at QB and RT, it is awfully encouraging that there are 10-11 QBs and 7-8 OTs in this draft that can make arguments for 1st round draft grades. Given that we are likely to have 2 of the 1st 33 picks, that sure is encouraging!

I am not saying that there are 11 QBs coming out that should go in the 1st round!... only that the depth is very good- the best QB depth I recall, potentially since the Marino/Elway/Eason.... I anticipate that much will change by the end of the combine. I share concerns that the murkiness of who should be ranked the #1 QB indicate could be a sign that none of these guys are a true, lights out, elite prospect. I would wager, though, that in three years at least 3 of these guys are top half of the league starters and a solid number of the group have flashed and/or are still coveted as the future or as trustworthy and valuable depth by their team.

Personally, I feel pretty good about Bridgewater. Still, though, my favorite scenario would be a 1st round trade down and accumulation of picks... Then, grabbing one of (Mettenberger/Bortles/Carr) later in the 1st and then getting (Murray/McCarrons/or Boyd) with a 3rd round pick... Meanwhile, using the extra picks to get one of the top offensive tackles and then a BPA defensive player... Something like:

(trade #1 overall for #12, #44, #76 and a pick in 2014)

12. Jace Amaro (TE)
33. Mettenberger (QB)
44. Greg Robinson (T)
65. Yawin Smallwood (LB)
76. A. Murray (QB)

98.
129 (4th compensatory).
131.
164. (5th compensatory)
166.
198.

So, we could have two QB prospects competing and pushing each other (not obsessed with those two guys, specifically)... Have a RT, quality LB to line up next to Cushing in 3-4 or play SLB, probably, in a 4-3, and a stud TE (making it easier to cut OD and save $6 million on this year's cap for free agent help)...

Then, we'd still have 6 picks before pick #200... That seems like the potential for dramatically altering the structure of the roster and building depth, athleticism and addressing needs.

TexansFTW
12-18-2013, 10:07 AM
The silver lining of this disastrous season is right here... Given that our offensive struggles (from a personnel standpoint) this year is almost entirely the result of poor play at QB and RT, it is awfully encouraging that there are 10-11 QBs and 7-8 OTs in this draft that can make arguments for 1st round draft grades. Given that we are likely to have 2 of the 1st 33 picks, that sure is encouraging!

I am not saying that there are 11 QBs coming out that should go in the 1st round!... only that the depth is very good- the best QB depth I recall, potentially since the Marino/Elway/Eason.... I anticipate that much will change by the end of the combine. I share concerns that the murkiness of who should be ranked the #1 QB indicate could be a sign that none of these guys are a true, lights out, elite prospect. I would wager, though, that in three years at least 3 of these guys are top half of the league starters and a solid number of the group have flashed and/or are still coveted as the future or as trustworthy and valuable depth by their team.

Personally, I feel pretty good about Bridgewater. Still, though, my favorite scenario would be a 1st round trade down and accumulation of picks... Then, grabbing one of (Mettenberger/Bortles/Carr) later in the 1st and then getting (Murray/McCarrons/or Boyd) with a 3rd round pick... Meanwhile, using the extra picks to get one of the top offensive tackles and then a BPA defensive player... Something like:

(trade #1 overall for #12, #44, #76 and a pick in 2014)

12. Jace Amaro (TE)
33. Mettenberger (QB)
44. Greg Robinson (T)
65. Yawin Smallwood (LB)
76. A. Murray (QB)

98.
129 (4th compensatory).
131.
164. (5th compensatory)
166.
198.

So, we could have two QB prospects competing and pushing each other (not obsessed with those two guys, specifically)... Have a RT, quality LB to line up next to Cushing in 3-4 or play SLB, probably, in a 4-3, and a stud TE (making it easier to cut OD and save $6 million on this year's cap for free agent help)...

Then, we'd still have 6 picks before pick #200... That seems like the potential for dramatically altering the structure of the roster and building depth, athleticism and addressing needs.

If the Rams can get 3 - #1's for their #2, I am NOT OK with anything that doesn't at least come close to that. And seeing our history of constant failures in rounds 2-6 I am not impressed whatsoever with that scenario thrown out there.

Also, I find it hard to believe that any new coach would spend 2 picks in the first 3 rounds on a QB. This is assuming they want to make it (the new team image) their own as many seem to do.

I like and respect the work you've put into this though.

WolverineFan
12-18-2013, 10:24 AM
If the Rams can get 3 - #1's for their #2, I am NOT OK with anything that doesn't at least come close to that. And seeing our history of constant failures in rounds 2-6 I am not impressed whatsoever with that scenario thrown out there.

Also, I find it hard to believe that any new coach would spend 2 picks in the first 3 rounds on a QB. This is assuming they want to make it (the new team image) their own as many seem to do.

I like and respect the work you've put into this though.

No offer is going to come close to that because there is no Luck/RGIII in this draft. If you're holding out for that trade offer then prepare to use that #1 pick because you won't be trading back.

The available talent dictates the trade value and the value is not as high this year.

TexansFTW
12-18-2013, 11:16 AM
No offer is going to come close to that because there is no Luck/RGIII in this draft. If you're holding out for that trade offer then prepare to use that #1 pick because you won't be trading back.

The available talent dictates the trade value and the value is not as high this year.

Which is better than trading a #1 for a #12, which is basically how I see this.

WolverineFan
12-18-2013, 11:18 AM
Which is better than trading a #1 for a #12, which is basically how I see this.

Which is fine. No problem with that.

I just see a lot of guys on this board saying we should just trade the pick for a STL/WAS bounty. Well, get ready to turn in your #1 pick because it ain't happening.

bah007
01-10-2014, 06:18 PM
Updated after watching bowl games and also getting a chance to dig deeper into some guys I haven't seen enough of.

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater – Louisville
2. Johnny Manziel – Texas A&M
3. Blake Bortles – UCF
4. Zach Mettenberger – LSU
5. Derek Carr – Fresno St
6. Tajh Boyd – Clemson
7. Brett Smith – Wyoming
8. Jimmy Garoppolo – Eastern Illinois
9. Connor Shaw – South Carolina
10. David Fales – San Jose St

HB
1. Tre Mason – Auburn
2. Bishop Sankey – Washington
3. Ka’Deem Carey – Arizona
4. Carlos Hyde – Ohio St
5. Lache Seastrunk – Baylor
6. Charles Sims – West Virginia
7. Antonio Andrews – Western Kentucky
8. De’Anthony Thomas – Oregon
9. Kapri Bibbs – Colorado St
10. Devonta Freeman – Florida St

FB
1. Trey Millard – Oklahoma
2. Jay Prosch – Auburn
3. J.C. Copeland – LSU
4. Chris Coyle – Arizona St
5. Ryan Hewitt – Stanford

WR
1. Sammy Watkins – Clemson
2. Marqise Lee – USC
3. Mike Evans – Texas A&M
4. Kelvin Benjamin – Florida St
5. Jordan Matthews – Vanderbilt
6. Odell Beckham Jr. – LSU
7. Allen Robinson – Penn St
8. Davante Adams – Fresno St
9. Jarvis Landry – LSU
10. Brandin Cooks – Oregon St

TE
1. Eric Ebron – North Carolina
2. Jace Amaro – Texas Tech
3. Austin Seferian-Jenkins – Washington
4. Troy Niklas – Notre Dame
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz – Iowa
6. Arthur Lynch – Georgia
7. Xavier Grimble – USC
8. Marcel Jensen – Fresno St
9. Jake Murphy – Utah
10. Joe Don Duncan – Dixie St

OT
1. Jake Matthews – Texas A&M
2. Greg Robinson – Auburn
3. Taylor Lewan – Michigan
4. Antonio Richardson – Tennessee
5. Cyrus Kouandjio – Alabama
6. Morgan Moses – Virginia
7. JuWaun James – Tennessee
8. James Hurst – North Carolina
9. Jack Mewhort – Ohio St
10. Seantrel Henderson – Miami

OG
1. Zack Martin – Notre Dame
2. Gabe Jackson – Mississippi St
3. Xavier Su’a-Filo – UCLA
4. Cyril Richardson – Baylor
5. Anthony Steen – Alabama
6. Chris Watt – Notre Dame
7. Jon Halapio – Florida
8. Brandon Thomas – Clemson
9. Spencer Long – Nebraska
10. Brandon Linder – Miami

OC
1. Travis Swanson – Arkansas
2. Weston Richburg – Colorado St
3. Bryan Stork – Florida St
4. Marcus Martin – USC
5. Tyler Larsen – Utah St


DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney – South Carolina
2. Stephon Tuitt – Notre Dame
3. Kony Ealy – Missouri
4. Trent Murphy – Stanford
5. Trevor Reilly – Utah
6. Jackson Jeffcoat – Texas
7. Michael Sam – Missouri
8. Scott Crichton – Oregon St
9. Chris Smith – Arkansas
10. Taylor Hart – Oregon

DT
1. Louis Nix – Notre Dame
2. Timmy Jernigan – Florida St
3. Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh
4. Dominique Easley – Florida
5. Kelcy Quarles – South Carolina
6. Will Sutton – Arizona St
7. RaShede Hageman – Minnesota
8. Ego Ferguson – LSU
9. DaQuan Jones – Penn St
10. Anthony Johnson – LSU

OLB
1. Anthony Barr – UCLA
2. Khalil Mack – Buffalo
3. Ryan Shazier – Ohio St
4. Kyle Van Noy – BYU
5. Vic Beasley – Clemson
6. Dee Ford – Auburn
7. Demarcus Lawrence – Boise St
8. Jeremiah Attaochu – Georgia Tech
9. Telvin Smith – Florida St
10. Jordan Zumwalt – UCLA

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley – Alabama
2. Yawin Smallwood – Connecticut
3. Christian Jones – Florida St
4. Chris Borland – Wisconsin
5. Shayne Skov – Stanford
6. Max Bullough – Michigan St
7. Lamin Barrow – LSU
8. Andrew Jackson – Western Kentucky
9. Greg Blair – Cincinnati
10. DeDe Lattimore – South Florida

CB
1. Justin Gilbert – Oklahoma St
2. Darqueze Dennard – Michigan St
3. Jason Verrett – TCU
4. Lamarcus Joyner – Florida St
5. Marcus Roberson – Florida
6. Kyle Fuller – Virginia Tech
7. Bradley Roby – Ohio St
8. Loucheiz Purifoy – Florida
9. E.J. Gaines – Missouri
10. Terrance Mitchell – Oregon

FS
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix – Alabama
2. Terrence Brooks – Florida St
3. Jimmie Ward – Northern Illinois
4. Stanley Jean-Baptiste – Nebraska
5. Hakeem Smith – Louisville
6. Tre Boston – North Carolina
7. Isaiah Lewis – Michigan St
8. Antone Exum – Virginia Tech
9. Jonathan Dowling – Western Kentucky
10. Dontae Johnson – North Carolina St

SS
1. Deone Bucannon – Washington St
2. Calvin Pryor – Louisville
3. Craig Loston – LSU
4. Ahmad Dixon – Baylor
5. Dion Bailey – USC
6. Marqueston Huff – Wyoming
7. Kenny Ladler – Vanderbilt
8. Nickoe Whitley – Mississippi St
9. Daytawion Lowe – Oklahoma St
10. Jacques Washington – Iowa St

K
1. Anthony Fera – Texas
2. Jeff Budzien – Northwestern
3. Cairo Santos – Tulane

P
1. Steven Clark – Auburn
2. Kirby Van Der Kamp – Iowa St
3. Pat O’Donnell – Miami

WolverineFan
01-11-2014, 05:31 PM
Looks really good. Rep.

beerlover
01-11-2014, 05:44 PM
have you checked out Greg Robinson, who is a beast (Auburn) certainly looks like a franchise LT. Matthews not so much, more like serviceable LT, starting RT or pro bowl LG.

did you see that Florida State red-shirt sophomore Kelvin Benjamin is turning pro?

really nice job overall :bravo:

bah007
01-11-2014, 05:46 PM
have you checked out Greg Robinson, who is a beast (Auburn) certainly looks like a franchise LT. Matthews not so much, more like serviceable LT, starting RT or pro bowl LG.

did you see that Florida State red-shirt sophomore Kelvin Benjamin is turning pro?

really nice job overall :bravo:

List has been updated at post #21 to include players who have since declared.

And thank you.

76Texan
01-11-2014, 05:59 PM
I wish I can see Robinson against edge rushers a whole lot more; it's too difficult to have a good read of him in pass pro.

bah007
01-11-2014, 06:02 PM
I wish I can see Robinson against edge rushers a whole lot more; it's too difficult to have a good read of him in pass pro.

That's the one thing that makes it hard for me to rank him ahead of Matthews. I really think Robinson is one of those guys who would benefit from a year or two at RT before he moved over. Definitely a potential franchise LT though.

beerlover
01-11-2014, 06:49 PM
Robinson is blessed as is KB. tough call - base grades as current or as projected? I tend to always look forward, but that is just personal choice.

kiwitexansfan
01-11-2014, 07:32 PM
Thanks for your top '5's.

bah007
01-12-2014, 11:12 AM
Robinson is blessed as is KB. tough call - base grades as current or as projected? I tend to always look forward, but that is just personal choice.

Combination of both. Potential is taken into account, but you never know what kind of coaching these guys are going to get until you see which team drafts them. I like guys who need less work to make the transition, but it would be foolish to ignore a talented athlete just because he is raw.

I would personally draft Robinson over Matthews because I think he is a franchise LT. But Matthews is so far ahead technically that he is clearly the better player at this point in time. If Robinson went to the wrong team he could end up as a RT who is inferior to Matthews.

Honoring Earl 34
01-12-2014, 11:18 AM
Combination of both. Potential is taken into account, but you never know what kind of coaching these guys are going to get until you see which team drafts them. I like guys who need less work to make the transition, but it would be foolish to ignore a talented athlete just because he is raw.

I would personally draft Robinson over Matthews because I think he is a franchise LT. But Matthews is so far ahead technically that he is clearly the better player at this point in time. If Robinson went to the wrong team he could end up as a RT who is inferior to Matthews.

Is Robinson's talent worth picking #1 overall ?

76Texan
01-12-2014, 11:22 AM
I wonder if Kouandjio dropped off quite a few spots because he had a bad game against Oklahoma or because you've seen more, bah?

Is it possible that he had some kind of issues that particular day?
Normally, I saw him better on the edge than that; admittedly, I've only watched about six or seven of his games so far.
Was there another one or two bad games that stood out for you?

bah007
01-12-2014, 11:43 AM
Is Robinson's talent worth picking #1 overall ?

His talent at this point in time? No.

His potential to be a franchise LT? Yes.

You pass if you're the Texans because you already have Duane Brown and don't need to take the risk on him. If you're a team that's desperate for a LT you might do it.

bah007
01-12-2014, 12:14 PM
I wonder if Kouandjio dropped off quite a few spots because he had a bad game against Oklahoma or because you've seen more, bah?

Is it possible that he had some kind of issues that particular day?
Normally, I saw him better on the edge than that; admittedly, I've only watched about six or seven of his games so far.
Was there another one or two bad games that stood out for you?

It wasn't just Oklahoma but that game definitely made an impression on me. Kouandjio was protected last year by having Warmack next to him. He was left one on one a lot more often this year and I didn't think he looked as good. He's clearly a specimen, but he looks off balance a lot to me. The style of offense Alabama runs gives the OL an advantage in pass blocking because defenders are slow to push the pocket off the snap for fear of leaving their run gap unmanned.

He's got great size and he's a plus athlete for the position. He's just underwhelming to me. Definitely a first round prospect. I just like some other guys more after digging deeper.

Marshall
01-12-2014, 03:45 PM
I've looked at the Bleacher Report Mock and if there is a WR heavy draft as they have, OTs Taylor Lewan and Cameron Erving are still on the board at 2-33 as are DE Stephen Tuitt and DT RaShede Hageman; all projected as 1st rounders.

Assuming we were not able to pick up a second 1st in a trade, who would you pick? For this arguments sake, let's assume we've already picked QB with 1-1.

bah007
01-12-2014, 03:50 PM
I've looked at the Bleacher Report Mock and if there is a WR heavy draft as they have, OTs Taylor Lewan and Cameron Erving are still on the board at 2-33 as are DE Stephen Tuitt and DT RaShede Hageman; all projected as 1st rounders.

Assuming we were not able to pick up a second 1st in a trade, who would you pick? For this arguments sake, let's assume we've already picked QB with 1-1.

Who would I pick out of Lewan, Tuitt, and Hageman? Erving is going back to school.

Tuitt if it falls that way. I don't like taking a DE that early but he's a future All Pro as a 34 DE.

mussop
01-12-2014, 04:47 PM
Who would I pick out of Lewan, Tuitt, and Hageman? Erving is going back to school.

Tuitt if it falls that way. I don't like taking a DE that early but he's a future All Pro as a 34 DE.

Me too. It would be tough to pass up a big need at OT with that kind of talent sitting there. However Tuitt would be to good to pass up. There should be some solid RT prospects available at 3.1. .

powda
01-12-2014, 05:34 PM
Updated after watching bowl games and also getting a chance to dig deeper into some guys I haven't seen enough of.

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater – Louisville
2. Johnny Manziel – Texas A&M
3. Blake Bortles – UCF
4. Zach Mettenberger – LSU
5. Derek Carr – Fresno St
6. Tajh Boyd – Clemson
7. Brett Smith – Wyoming
8. Jimmy Garoppolo – Eastern Illinois
9. Connor Shaw – South Carolina
10. David Fales – San Jose St

HB
1. Tre Mason – Auburn
2. Bishop Sankey – Washington
3. Ka’Deem Carey – Arizona
4. Carlos Hyde – Ohio St
5. Lache Seastrunk – Baylor
6. Charles Sims – West Virginia
7. Antonio Andrews – Western Kentucky
8. De’Anthony Thomas – Oregon
9. Kapri Bibbs – Colorado St
10. Devonta Freeman – Florida St

FB
1. Trey Millard – Oklahoma
2. Jay Prosch – Auburn
3. J.C. Copeland – LSU
4. Chris Coyle – Arizona St
5. Ryan Hewitt – Stanford

WR
1. Sammy Watkins – Clemson
2. Marqise Lee – USC
3. Mike Evans – Texas A&M
4. Kelvin Benjamin – Florida St
5. Jordan Matthews – Vanderbilt
6. Odell Beckham Jr. – LSU
7. Allen Robinson – Penn St
8. Davante Adams – Fresno St
9. Jarvis Landry – LSU
10. Brandin Cooks – Oregon St

TE
1. Eric Ebron – North Carolina
2. Jace Amaro – Texas Tech
3. Austin Seferian-Jenkins – Washington
4. Troy Niklas – Notre Dame
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz – Iowa
6. Arthur Lynch – Georgia
7. Xavier Grimble – USC
8. Marcel Jensen – Fresno St
9. Jake Murphy – Utah
10. Joe Don Duncan – Dixie St

OT
1. Jake Matthews – Texas A&M
2. Greg Robinson – Auburn
3. Taylor Lewan – Michigan
4. Antonio Richardson – Tennessee
5. Cyrus Kouandjio – Alabama
6. Morgan Moses – Virginia
7. JuWaun James – Tennessee
8. James Hurst – North Carolina
9. Jack Mewhort – Ohio St
10. Seantrel Henderson – Miami

OG
1. Zack Martin – Notre Dame
2. Gabe Jackson – Mississippi St
3. Xavier Su’a-Filo – UCLA
4. Cyril Richardson – Baylor
5. Anthony Steen – Alabama
6. Chris Watt – Notre Dame
7. Jon Halapio – Florida
8. Brandon Thomas – Clemson
9. Spencer Long – Nebraska
10. Brandon Linder – Miami

OC
1. Travis Swanson – Arkansas
2. Weston Richburg – Colorado St
3. Bryan Stork – Florida St
4. Marcus Martin – USC
5. Tyler Larsen – Utah St


DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney – South Carolina
2. Stephon Tuitt – Notre Dame
3. Kony Ealy – Missouri
4. Trent Murphy – Stanford
5. Trevor Reilly – Utah
6. Jackson Jeffcoat – Texas
7. Michael Sam – Missouri
8. Scott Crichton – Oregon St
9. Chris Smith – Arkansas
10. Taylor Hart – Oregon

DT
1. Louis Nix – Notre Dame
2. Timmy Jernigan – Florida St
3. Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh
4. Dominique Easley – Florida
5. Kelcy Quarles – South Carolina
6. Will Sutton – Arizona St
7. RaShede Hageman – Minnesota
8. Ego Ferguson – LSU
9. DaQuan Jones – Penn St
10. Anthony Johnson – LSU

OLB
1. Anthony Barr – UCLA
2. Khalil Mack – Buffalo
3. Ryan Shazier – Ohio St
4. Kyle Van Noy – BYU
5. Vic Beasley – Clemson
6. Dee Ford – Auburn
7. Demarcus Lawrence – Boise St
8. Jeremiah Attaochu – Georgia Tech
9. Telvin Smith – Florida St
10. Jordan Zumwalt – UCLA

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley – Alabama
2. Yawin Smallwood – Connecticut
3. Christian Jones – Florida St
4. Chris Borland – Wisconsin
5. Shayne Skov – Stanford
6. Max Bullough – Michigan St
7. Lamin Barrow – LSU
8. Andrew Jackson – Western Kentucky
9. Greg Blair – Cincinnati
10. DeDe Lattimore – South Florida

CB
1. Justin Gilbert – Oklahoma St
2. Darqueze Dennard – Michigan St
3. Jason Verrett – TCU
4. Lamarcus Joyner – Florida St
5. Marcus Roberson – Florida
6. Kyle Fuller – Virginia Tech
7. Bradley Roby – Ohio St
8. Loucheiz Purifoy – Florida
9. E.J. Gaines – Missouri
10. Terrance Mitchell – Oregon

FS
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix – Alabama
2. Terrence Brooks – Florida St
3. Jimmie Ward – Northern Illinois
4. Stanley Jean-Baptiste – Nebraska
5. Hakeem Smith – Louisville
6. Tre Boston – North Carolina
7. Isaiah Lewis – Michigan St
8. Antone Exum – Virginia Tech
9. Jonathan Dowling – Western Kentucky
10. Dontae Johnson – North Carolina St

SS
1. Deone Bucannon – Washington St
2. Calvin Pryor – Louisville
3. Craig Loston – LSU
4. Ahmad Dixon – Baylor
5. Dion Bailey – USC
6. Marqueston Huff – Wyoming
7. Kenny Ladler – Vanderbilt
8. Nickoe Whitley – Mississippi St
9. Daytawion Lowe – Oklahoma St
10. Jacques Washington – Iowa St

K
1. Anthony Fera – Texas
2. Jeff Budzien – Northwestern
3. Cairo Santos – Tulane

P
1. Steven Clark – Auburn
2. Kirby Van Der Kamp – Iowa St
3. Pat O’Donnell – Miami

Curious to see you have mettenberger ranked ahead of carr. That's contrary to everything I've read but qb is perhaps the most subjective position of them all. I have admittedly seen far less of these guys then you so not really a big deal...just something that stood out to me. Thanks for your efforts. Im still in a learning phase on college talent and progress will be slow on what I think fits here till our coaching staff is complete. Appreciate your posts. Will you be compilling a list ranking regardless of position in the near future?

bah007
01-12-2014, 05:45 PM
Curious to see you have mettenberger ranked ahead of carr. That's contrary to everything I've read but qb is perhaps the most subjective position of them all. I have admittedly seen far less of these guys then you so not really a big deal...just something that stood out to me. Thanks for your efforts. Im still in a learning phase on college talent and progress will be slow on what I think fits here till our coaching staff is complete. Appreciate your posts. Will you be compilling a list ranking regardless of position in the near future?

I've been high on Mettenberger for a while now. I backed off after the injury, but I've changed my mind. He's not a mobile guy anyway so a mobility injury doesn't change anything about his game. He's got the arm talent to be great. He's mentally behind but made great strides this year under Cam Cameron.

I've been trying to like Carr because the national guys do, but I'm just not as high on him as everyone else. Every time I watch him all I see is Davante Adams making him look good. The rotoworld link that was posted the other day really confirmed some of my beliefs on him.

And yes, I'll have a top 32 out in the next couple of days.

TexansSeminole
01-12-2014, 06:07 PM
You always do a great job bah and this part of the forum would not be the same without you. I don't rep you enough.

kiwitexansfan
01-12-2014, 06:14 PM
Some of those stats about Carr make me concerned, especially the short pass accuracy issues.

Corrosion
01-12-2014, 06:27 PM
I've been trying to like Carr because the national guys do, but I'm just not as high on him as everyone else. Every time I watch him all I see is Davante Adams making him look good. The rotoworld link that was posted the other day really confirmed some of my beliefs on him.

And yes, I'll have a top 32 out in the next couple of days.


I'm with you on Carr , I almost got caught up in the hype , then watched how he struggles against pressure .... If he's struggling in college , you can expect those struggles to continue in the NFL where the pressure is increased.


I might drop Carr (and Boyd) behind Wyoming's Brett Smith .... & I'm a little higher on Fales than you.
Here's my QB list as o now , which is subject to change ...

1. Johnny Manziel – Texas A&M
2. Blake Bortles – UCF
3. Teddy Bridgewater – Louisville
4. Zach Mettenberger – LSU
5. Brett Smith – Wyoming
6. Derek Carr – Fresno St
7. David Fales – San Jose St
8. Connor Shaw – South Carolina
9. Tajh Boyd – Clemson
10. Jimmy Garoppolo – Eastern Illinois

Same guy's , just shuffled around a bit .


Cant wait to see your top 32 and compare.

kiwitexansfan
01-12-2014, 06:37 PM
Why so low on Boyd, Corrosion?

ziggy29
01-12-2014, 06:41 PM
This whole thing makes me wonder. This year's QB class seems to be deep with decent prospects but no Luck-type guys who would scream "easy choice for #1 pick".

So if you are drafting a QB high, do you go all-out with a very high pick getting the very best of this lot, or if you think there's not a huge drop off between the top couple of names and (say) the next five, do you not go after a Bridgewater or Manziel in the first round and instead meet other needs with players more dominant at their position in the first round, and go for someone like Mettenberger or Fales in the (say) third round if they're still on the board?

bah007
01-12-2014, 06:43 PM
This whole thing makes me wonder. This year's QB class seems to be deep with decent prospects but no Luck-type guys who would scream "easy choice for #1 pick".

So if you are drafting a QB high, do you go all-out with a very high pick getting the very best of this lot, or if you think there's not a huge drop off between the top couple of names and (say) the next five, do you not go after a Bridgewater or Manziel in the first round and instead meet other needs with players more dominant at their position in the first round, and go for someone like Mettenberger or Fales in the (say) third round if they're still on the board?

Depends on FO mentality.

"Win now" suggests Bridgewater or Manziel. They start from day 1 and we'll see what happens.

If you take Mettenberger, Boyd, Smith, etc. you're almost positively having them sit behind a veteran for at least a year.

TexansFTW
01-12-2014, 07:14 PM
This whole thing makes me wonder. This year's QB class seems to be deep with decent prospects but no Luck-type guys who would scream "easy choice for #1 pick".

So if you are drafting a QB high, do you go all-out with a very high pick getting the very best of this lot, or if you think there's not a huge drop off between the top couple of names and (say) the next five, do you not go after a Bridgewater or Manziel in the first round and instead meet other needs with players more dominant at their position in the first round, and go for someone like Mettenberger or Fales in the (say) third round if they're still on the board?

The difference in TB and Mett/Fales is night and day.

One scenario you draft a QB in the 1st next year with a top 5 pick, the other you are addressing positions of need in the draft.

I posted the below in one of Bah007's other threads. I posed this question, heard his response, and took away from it that he (Zach Mett) still doesn't belong. I'd like to hear what others have to say since there is some buzz going on here.

What is everyone's obsession with Zach Met? Can someone please explain to me what I am missing?

Yeah, he was pretty good in the SEC under Cam Cameron, but he was still wildly inconsistent.

I like his height, build, and arm obviously but that's pretty much where I draw the line. Anyone can have awesome games against UAB or Kent State, but where were those games against the "SEC Competition" that SEC fans pride themselves on?

I've seen this chatter going on for a while and just haven't said anything, but since you made this I will ask.

For me, he was a guy that ran a 5.2 before he tore his ACL and I highly doubt he's Adrian Peterson so I doubt he comes back better. He is Mike Glennon II. A career 5-8 win QB until his rookie contract ends and he becomes a journeyman backup.

Obviously my 2 cents. Feel free to educate me if I'm ignorant.

ziggy29
01-12-2014, 07:20 PM
The difference in TB and Mett/Fales is night and day.
It is significant. But I don't think the gap is as large between a potential high 1st rounder and 3rd rounder at QB as it is in many other years. There are a lot of QBs this year with round 1-3 draft potential even though there really aren't the compelling can't-miss "franchise" guys out there. Of course, some thought Ryan Leaf would be franchise, and then there was JaMarcus Russell. And on the flip side, Brady was a 6th rounder and Joe Montana was a 3rd rounder.

kiwitexansfan
01-12-2014, 07:35 PM
The gap between 1st rd QB and 3rd QB might be smaller than other positions, but the importance of 'fixing' that position is much greater than any other.

I am firmly in the camp of deciding between TB, Manziel and Bortles and pulling the trigger at 1:1 and never looking back (hopefully).

Corrosion
01-12-2014, 08:22 PM
Why so low on Boyd, Corrosion?

Before the season I had Boyd rated as the #1 Sr QB in this draft. My how that has changed.

Mechanically he's not bad , pretty solid footwork , ball handling skills are solid and has a sound throwing motion .... When things are going good for him he can be above average ...


He doesn't have the strongest or most accurate arm ... but the biggest thing to me is mental breakdowns , especially when he gets hit a couple times early in a game ..... everything just falls apart. Mechanics , body language , footwork ... the foundation crumbles.

He just doesn't seem to have that mental toughness .... You watch Manziel get popped , he jumps up and starts talking smack .... Bridgewater and Bortles show that mental toughness too .... that top group takes a hit and rise to the occasion ..... These guy's show that "will to win." I just don't see that same mental toughness from Boyd.

I keep seeing flashbacks of .... McNabb puking on the field.

Blake
01-13-2014, 08:37 AM
I think Carr dropping in the rankings is a good thing for him. Going in the 2nd might allow the team to sit him for a season and let him learn while these 1st rounders are going to be thrown in the fire.

TexansFTW
01-13-2014, 10:30 AM
I keep seeing flashbacks of .... McNabb puking on the field.

lol, weren't you the one that brought that up in another thread only to have like 10 DIFFERENT people tell you that you didn't know what you were talking about?

I agree w/ your assessment on Boyd though. When he's pushed he crumbles. He will fail in the NFL. He's on my Do Not Draft ever list. He will get spot starts as the pros and win against a horrible defense that didn't game plan for him, get a few more starts and fail then be a journey-man backup.

I think there will only be 4 QBs that will have starting QB careers in this draft.

Corrosion
01-13-2014, 05:03 PM
lol, weren't you the one that brought that up in another thread only to have like 10 DIFFERENT people tell you that you didn't know what you were talking about?



Nope , you don't know what you are talking about ....



http://www.thekickisgood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mcnabb-vomit.jpg


Either way , wasn't me who made mention of it in any recent posts (besides the one you just quoted).

infantrycak
01-13-2014, 05:09 PM
lol, weren't you the one that brought that up in another thread only to have like 10 DIFFERENT people tell you that you didn't know what you were talking about?

Nope , you don't know what you are talking about ....

FTW, you are thinking of steelb and he made an assertion about the 2004 playoffs/SB. That was what was debunked.

Corrosion
01-13-2014, 05:17 PM
FTW, you are thinking of steelb and he made an assertion about the 2004 playoffs/SB. That was what was debunked.

You happen to know what thread that conversation is in ??


What exactly was debunked ... ??

steelbtexan
01-13-2014, 05:22 PM
Nope , you don't know what you are talking about ....



http://www.thekickisgood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mcnabb-vomit.jpg


Either way , wasn't me who made mention of it in any recent posts (besides the one you just quoted).

I posted the post he is talking about.

Appears I was right and only 2 people said I was wrong.

Carry on

infantrycak
01-13-2014, 05:52 PM
You happen to know what thread that conversation is in ??


What exactly was debunked ... ??

Don't recall the thread. IIRC the assertion was something about not wanting a QB who throws up in the huddle in the playoffs/SB (can't remember which). Debunked might have been too strong. In support was a statement from TO. Against were statements from multiple other witnesses including folks in the huddle.

Corrosion
01-13-2014, 06:05 PM
Don't recall the thread. IIRC the assertion was something about not wanting a QB who throws up in the huddle in the playoffs/SB (can't remember which). Debunked might have been too strong. In support was a statement from TO. Against were statements from multiple other witnesses including folks in the huddle.

Doesn't look as if he farted in that photo to me :corrosion:

76Texan
01-24-2014, 01:52 PM
Bah, I see that you projected Zack Martin to Guard.

I was studying him as part of the study on OT, and I really liked him.
I didn't read about him at all beforehand.
Now that I did, I saw the 32-1/2 arms (which I don't think are terribly short.)
He plays with such good pad level and leverage, I don't think arm length is that much of a problem.

I also read that he has been impressing at the Senior bowl practice, which doesn't surprise me at all.
I see him as a first rounder; I think he's at least top 5 as an OT.

Playoffs
01-24-2014, 01:56 PM
Bah, I see that you projected Zack Martin to Guard.

I was studying him as part of the study on OT, and I really liked him.
I didn't read about him at all beforehand.
Now that I did, I saw the 32-1/2 arms (which I don't think are terribly short.)
He plays with such good pad level and leverage, I don't think arm length is that much of a problem.

I also read that he has been impressing at the Senior bowl practice, which doesn't surprise me at all.
I see him as a first rounder; I think he's at least top 5 as an OT.

Was stoning everyone at Senior practices. I think he can play at T and will be a 1st rounder.

bah007
01-24-2014, 01:57 PM
Bah, I see that you projected Zack Martin to Guard.

I was studying him as part of the study on OT, and I really liked him.
I didn't read about him at all beforehand.
Now that I did, I saw the 32-1/2 arms (which I don't think are terribly short.)
He plays with such good pad level and leverage, I don't think arm length is that much of a problem.

I also read that he has been impressing at the Senior bowl practice, which doesn't surprise me at all.
I see him as a first rounder; I think he's at least top 5 as an OT.

He's a first rounder. I think he'll be a better Guard than Tackle, but he is capable of playing RT.

WolverineFan
01-24-2014, 02:49 PM
Performed better at OT than OG at Senior Bowl which seems to have surprised some people because of his short arms.

mussop
01-27-2014, 07:54 PM
Bishop Sankey – Washington moved to number two? Why? I love his burst. He is number one IMO. What's up with the boston college RB? You don't like him?

WolverineFan
01-27-2014, 09:30 PM
Bishop Sankey – Washington moved to number two? Why? I love his burst. He is number one IMO. What's up with the boston college RB? You don't like him?

Won't speak for bah, but I'm not a fan of Andre Williams either. Haven't understood the hype on him at all.

Can't catch, can't block, can't really move in space, and is not fast. He's a smashmouth, downhill runner. Those old school runners are mostly gone from the league these days. It's all about skill sets now and he doesn't really have one that is utilized by a lot of teams.

bah007
01-27-2014, 10:34 PM
Bishop Sankey – Washington moved to number two? Why? I love his burst. He is number one IMO. What's up with the boston college RB? You don't like him?

Nothing against Sankey. I'm higher on him than the consensus seems to be. Just think that Mason is better. Wouldn't shock me at all if Mason is the only RB drafted in the first round.

I think WolverineFan is in my head because what he said is pretty much spot on how I feel about Andre Williams. At best he's Daniel Thomas in the NFL. Great college player though.

aussie_texan
01-27-2014, 11:30 PM
Won't speak for bah, but I'm not a fan of Andre Williams either. Haven't understood the hype on him at all.

Can't catch, can't block, can't really move in space, and is not fast. He's a smashmouth, downhill runner. Those old school runners are mostly gone from the league these days. It's all about skill sets now and he doesn't really have one that is utilized by a lot of teams.

if anything he actually plays like a smaller back. doesn't use his size like hyde or hill does. better running stretch plays than up the middle.

WolverineFan
01-28-2014, 12:02 AM
Just think that Mason is better. Wouldn't shock me at all if Mason is the only RB drafted in the first round.

Mason reminds me of Marshawn Lynch.

TexansSeminole
01-28-2014, 03:16 AM
if anything he actually plays like a smaller back. doesn't use his size like hyde or hill does. better running stretch plays than up the middle.

Um, what?

Andre Williams (http://youtu.be/Ujt1S9P2XHE) trucked and stiff armed his way to the rushing title. Nothing about Williams says he runs like a smaller back. He ran with more power than anyone I saw this year. People are going to be surprised with his speed too, he is much faster than people are giving him credit for.

mussop
01-28-2014, 02:31 PM
Um, what?

Andre Williams (http://youtu.be/Ujt1S9P2XHE) trucked and stiff armed his way to the rushing title. Nothing about Williams says he runs like a smaller back. He ran with more power than anyone I saw this year. People are going to be surprised with his speed too, he is much faster than people are giving him credit for.


This. I'm not high on him for us (texans) but I could see him fitting in really well for a team like the 49 ers.

I really like mason too but Sankey is still number one on my board.

aussie_texan
01-28-2014, 05:47 PM
Um, what?

Andre Williams (http://youtu.be/Ujt1S9P2XHE) trucked and stiff armed his way to the rushing title. Nothing about Williams says he runs like a smaller back. He ran with more power than anyone I saw this year. People are going to be surprised with his speed too, he is much faster than people are giving him credit for.

this is what i meant by smaller back. i really like williams. but he isn't going to get those short 3rd and 1/2 type of yards up the middle. his not in the same mold as hyde and hill. I watched him a lot. his a different style of back compared to those other two even though there sizes are similar.

http://secondroundstats.com/?p=558
the above link examples pretty well what i mean.

bah007
01-31-2014, 08:50 PM
QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater – Louisville
2. Blake Bortles – UCF
3. Johnny Manziel – Texas A&M
4. Derek Carr – Fresno St
5. Zach Mettenberger – LSU
6. Brett Smith – Wyoming
7. Jimmy Garoppolo – Eastern Illinois
8. Connor Shaw – South Carolina
9. A.J. McCarron – Alabama
10. David Fales – San Jose St

HB
1. Tre Mason – Auburn
2. Bishop Sankey – Washington
3. Ka’Deem Carey – Arizona
4. Carlos Hyde – Ohio St
5. Lache Seastrunk – Baylor
6. Charles Sims – West Virginia
7. Antonio Andrews – Western Kentucky
8. Jeremy Hill – LSU
9. De’Anthony Thomas – Oregon
10. Kapri Bibbs – Colorado St

FB
1. Trey Millard – Oklahoma
2. Jay Prosch – Auburn
3. J.C. Copeland – LSU
4. Chris Coyle – Arizona St
5. Ryan Hewitt – Stanford

WR
1. Sammy Watkins – Clemson
2. Marqise Lee – USC
3. Odell Beckham Jr. – LSU
4. Jordan Matthews – Vanderbilt
5. Mike Evans – Texas A&M
6. Kelvin Benjamin – Florida St
7. Allen Robinson – Penn St
8. Davante Adams – Fresno St
9. Jarvis Landry – LSU
10. Brandin Cooks – Oregon St

TE
1. Eric Ebron – North Carolina
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins – Washington
3. Jace Amaro – Texas Tech
4. Troy Niklas – Notre Dame
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz – Iowa
6. Arthur Lynch – Georgia
7. Xavier Grimble – USC
8. Marcel Jensen – Fresno St
9. Joe Don Duncan – Dixie St
10. Jake Murphy – Utah

OT
1. Greg Robinson – Auburn
2. Cyrus Kouandjio – Alabama
3. Antonio Richardson – Tennessee
4. Taylor Lewan – Michigan
5. JuWaun James – Tennessee
6. Morgan Moses – Virginia
7. Cameron Fleming – Stanford
8. James Hurst – North Carolina
9. Seantrel Henderson – Miami
10. Jack Mewhort – Ohio St

OG
1. Jake Matthews – Texas A&M
2. Zack Martin – Notre Dame
3. Gabe Jackson – Mississippi St
4. Xavier Su’a-Filo – UCLA
5. Cyril Richardson – Baylor
6. David Yankey – Stanford
7. Anthony Steen – Alabama
8. Brandon Thomas – Clemson
9. Trai Turner – LSU
10. Chris Watt – Notre Dame

C
1. Weston Richburg – Colorado St
2. Travis Swanson – Arkansas
3. Marcus Martin – USC
4. Bryan Stork – Florida St
5. Tyler Larsen – Utah St


DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney – South Carolina
2. Stephon Tuitt – Notre Dame
3. Kony Ealy – Missouri
4. Trent Murphy – Stanford
5. Jackson Jeffcoat – Texas
6. Trevor Reilly – Utah
7. Scott Crichton – Oregon St
8. Chris Smith – Arkansas
9. Kareem Martin – North Carolina
10. Michael Sam – Missouri

DT
1. Timmy Jernigan – Florida St
2. Louis Nix – Notre Dame
3. Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh
4. Dominique Easley – Florida
5. Ra’Shede Hageman – Minnesota
6. Kelcy Quarles – South Carolina
7. Will Sutton – Arizona St
8. DaQuan Jones – Penn St
9. Ego Ferguson – LSU
10. George Uko – USC

OLB
1. Khalil Mack – Buffalo
2. Anthony Barr – UCLA
3. Ryan Shazier – Ohio St
4. Kyle Van Noy – BYU
5. Dee Ford – Auburn
6. Carl Bradford – Arizona St
7. Jeremiah Attaochu – Georgia Tech
8. Demarcus Lawrence – Boise St
9. Telvin Smith – Florida St
10. Jordan Zumwalt – UCLA

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley – Alabama
2. Yawin Smallwood – Connecticut
3. Shayne Skov – Stanford
4. Chris Borland – Wisconsin
5. Christian Jones – Florida St
6. Lamin Barrow – LSU
7. Andrew Jackson – Western Kentucky
8. Greg Blair – Cincinnati
9. Max Bullough – Michigan St
10. Shaquil Barrett – Colorado St

CB
1. Justin Gilbert – Oklahoma St
2. Darqueze Dennard – Michigan St
3. Lamarcus Joyner – Florida St
4. Jason Verrett – TCU
5. Marcus Roberson – Florida
6. Kyle Fuller – Virginia Tech
7. Bradley Roby – Ohio St
8. Pierre Desir – Lindenwood
9. Loucheiz Purifoy – Florida
10. E.J. Gaines – Missouri

FS
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix – Alabama
2. Calvin Pryor – Louisville
3. Jimmie Ward – Northern Illinois
4. Terrence Brooks – Florida St
5. Stanley Jean-Baptiste – Nebraska
6. Marqueston Huff – Wyoming
7. Tre Boston – North Carolina
8. Isaiah Lewis – Michigan St
9. Jonathan Dowling – Western Kentucky
10. Alden Darby – Arizona St

SS
1. Deone Bucannon – Washington St
2. Craig Loston – LSU
3. Ahmad Dixon – Baylor
4. Ed Reynolds – Stanford
5. Hakeem Smith – Louisville
6. Dion Bailey – USC
7. Kenny Ladler – Vanderbilt
8. Nickoe Whitley – Mississippi St
9. Daytawion Lowe – Oklahoma St
10. Jacques Washington – Iowa St

K
1. Anthony Fera – Texas
2. Jeff Budzien – Northwestern
3. Cairo Santos – Tulane

P
1. Steven Clark – Auburn
2. Kirby Van Der Kamp – Iowa St
3. Pat O’Donnell – Miami

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2014, 09:52 AM
I would say that this is a deep draft and the deepest positions are OT , OG , DT , DE , TE .

TexansFTW
02-01-2014, 09:53 AM
If Hyde can drop about 10-15 pounds and improve his top end speed just a little (4.50) 40 I think that guy can be special.

I love the way he bounces off tackles, but I think in the NFL they are a little more apt to not you let slide past the first defender every time, so he needs a little more top end speed.

Obviously good stuff.

bah007
02-01-2014, 10:20 AM
If Hyde can drop about 10-15 pounds and improve his top end speed just a little (4.50) 40 I think that guy can be special.

I love the way he bounces off tackles, but I think in the NFL they are a little more apt to not you let slide past the first defender every time, so he needs a little more top end speed.

Obviously good stuff.

Agree for the most part. The guys I have in front of him may not be faster over 40 yards but they get to top speed very quickly. The 10 yard split and 3 cone shuttle are much more important to me for a RB. Quickness and acceleration are key.

bah007
02-01-2014, 10:24 AM
I would say that this is a deep draft and the deepest positions are OT , OG , DT , DE , TE .

OT has a lot of talent in the first four rounds but I feel like that's about it.

WR, TE, OG, DE, and DT are all extremely deep. A lot of underclassmen in this draft pushes some solid talent down in each round. It's a great year to have the #1 pick in rounds 2-7.

steelbtexan
02-01-2014, 10:58 AM
OT has a lot of talent in the first four rounds but I feel like that's about it.

WR, TE, OG, DE, and DT are all extremely deep. A lot of underclassmen in this draft pushes some solid talent down in each round. It's a great year to have the #1 pick in rounds 2-7.

I really don't think that DE is that deep. What true 3 down pass rushers are there besides Clowney. I see Tuitt 5 tech or DT in a 3-4. I'm not sold on Ealy. The team I'm mock drafting for (Bears) they need a DE. But I expect them to sign Micheal Bennett in FA and pick a DE later rd 3-5 in the draft.

bah007
02-01-2014, 11:08 AM
I really don't think that DE is that deep. What true 3 down pass rushers are there besides Clowney. I see Tuitt 5 tech or DT in a 3-4. I'm not sold on Ealy. The team I'm mock drafting for (Bears) they need a DE. But I expect them to sign Micheal Bennett in FA and pick a DE later rd 3-5 in the draft.

It's deep in the sense that you can find depth players littered throughout the later rounds of the draft.

As far as the top level pass rushers go (rounds 1-3), this draft has too many 34 OLBs and not enough 43 DEs.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2014, 11:12 AM
It's deep in the sense that you can find depth players littered throughout the later rounds of the draft.

As far as the top level pass rushers go (rounds 1-3), this draft has too many 34 OLBs and not enough 43 DEs.

I think these two guys can play .

7. Scott Crichton – Oregon St
8. Chris Smith – Arkansas

TexansSeminole
02-03-2014, 10:39 AM
this is what i meant by smaller back. i really like williams. but he isn't going to get those short 3rd and 1/2 type of yards up the middle. his not in the same mold as hyde and hill. I watched him a lot. his a different style of back compared to those other two even though there sizes are similar.

http://secondroundstats.com/?p=558
the above link examples pretty well what i mean.

Interesting statistics, good find. He passes the eye test as a powerful runner and do think he will post an impressive 40 time for his size. I'm clearly higher on him than many here.

aussie_texan
02-03-2014, 05:15 PM
Interesting statistics, good find. He passes the eye test as a powerful runner and do think he will post an impressive 40 time for his size. I'm clearly higher on him than many here.

he should post one of the better times for 'backs in his 'weight category' i would expect.
Im quite high on him as well. i listed him in prospects i would bang the table for. only thing is I'm questioning whether going RB at all in this years draft is going to happen or not. We might just pick up a guy in FA. but if we are looking for a running back in the middle round lets say 3-5 there are none better i think.

Corrosion
02-07-2014, 08:28 PM
Some of those stats about Carr make me concerned, especially the short pass accuracy issues.

Accuracy and his performance against pressure .... :pop:

Blake
02-10-2014, 09:45 AM
Well Michael Sam just dropped off Bah's top 10!

Playoffs
02-26-2014, 12:36 PM
QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater – Louisville
2. Blake Bortles – UCF
3. Johnny Manziel – Texas A&M
4. Derek Carr – Fresno St
5. Zach Mettenberger – LSU
6. Brett Smith – Wyoming
7. Jimmy Garoppolo – Eastern Illinois
8. Connor Shaw – South Carolina
9. A.J. McCarron – Alabama
10. David Fales – San Jose St


Really interested in these and other down the list QB prospects that might tickle OB's fancy. Wondering if he'll throw a curveball.

Reported that Texans met with Zach Mettenberger, QB, LSU at the Combine and Stephen Morris, QB, Miami at the Senior Bowl.

Gil Brandt was chirping about Tom Savage's arm at the Combine, saying it was the best in group 2 which would include Shaw, Vaughn, Thomas.

bah007
02-26-2014, 03:12 PM
Post Combine update. I only have the top four rounds of my board done right now. This is where I grade the prospects, not necessarily where I think they will be drafted. If they aren't on this list then I have them graded 5th round or later for now..

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville - 1st
2. Blake Bortles - UCF - 1st
3. Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M - 1st
4. Derek Carr - Fresno St - 2nd
5. Zach Mettenberger - LSU - 2nd
6. Jimmy Garoppolo - Eastern Illinois - 3rd
7. Aaron Murray - Georgia - 4th
8. A.J. McCarron - Alabama - 4th

RB
1. Tre Mason - Auburn - 1st
2. Bishop Sankey - Washington - 1st
3. Carlos Hyde - Ohio St - 2nd
4. Charles Sims - West Virginia - 2nd
5. Lache Seastrunk - Baylor - 3rd
6. Andre Williams - Boston College - 3rd
7. Ka'Deem Carey - Arizona - 3rd
8. Jeremy Hill - LSU - 3rd
9. Terrance West - Towson - 4th
10. Jerick McKinnon - Georgia Southern - 4th
11. Isaiah Crowell - Alabama St - 4th

FB
1. Trey Millard - Oklahoma - 4th

WR
1. Sammy Watkins – Clemson - 1st
2. Odell Beckham Jr. – LSU - 1st
3. Mike Evans - Texas A&M - 1st
4. Marqise Lee - USC - 1st
5. Donte Moncrief - Ole Miss - 1st
6. Jordan Matthews - Vanderbilt - 2nd
7. Brandin Cooks - Oregon St - 2nd
8. Kelvin Benjamin - Florida St - 2nd
9. Allen Robinson - Penn St - 2nd
10. Davante Adams - Fresno St - 2nd
11. Jarvis Landry - LSU - 3rd
12. Martavis Bryant - Clemson - 3rd
13. Paul Richardson - Colorado - 3rd
14. Robert Herron - Wyoming - 3rd
15. Jared Abbrederis - Wisconsin - 4th
16. Bruce Ellington - South Carolina - 4th

TE
1. Eric Ebron - North Carolina - 1st
2. Troy Niklas - Notre Dame - 1st
3. Jace Amaro - Texas Tech - 2nd
4. Austin Seferian-Jenkins - Washington - 2nd
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz - Iowa - 3rd
6. Arthur Lynch - Georgia - 3rd
7. Crockett Gilmore - Colorado St - 4th
8. Joe Don Duncan - Dixie St - 4th

OL and Defense are complete but I don't have it formatted yet. Will be posting it soon. Let me have it...

aussie_texan
02-26-2014, 06:57 PM
Murray graded as a 4th rounder is interesting??
is that mainly for the injury or something else? considering that z.mett is 2nd round

bah007
02-26-2014, 08:59 PM
Murray graded as a 4th rounder is interesting??
is that mainly for the injury or something else? considering that z.mett is 2nd round

My thoughts on Murray from a different thread:

Murray does a lot of things well but he doesn't do anything great. To me, he fits in the Colt McCoy/Kirk Cousins/Matt Barkley department as far as physical skills go. I see a NFL backup QB. He seems intelligent, but not intelligent enough to make up for his physical limitations at the next level.

I don't like his size. His arm is meh. It's good enough for the NFL but what he lacks in arm strength he doesn't make up for anywhere else. He gets a lot of passes batted down at the line. He needs a clean pocket for any throw longer than 15 yards. He's accurate but not amazingly accurate. His ball gets where it's going but there is no zip. He plays in a pro style offense and makes good pre snap reads but takes way too long going through his progressions if his first guy is covered.

He has good mechanics. He has a smooth delivery, a quick release, and good footwork. He has good enough feet to avoid the rush and buy time. By all accounts he is a great leader and a film junkie. He didn't put any absolutely terrible games on tape this year but his performance against Vanderbilt was not pretty. His games last year against South Carolina and Florida were pathetically bad.

I have a 4th round grade on him. I think he is mentally and physically capable of being an effective backup QB, especially in a west coast system. I would not want him to be my starter. He appears to have a very high floor but a very low ceiling. He just looks average to me.

steelbtexan
02-26-2014, 09:39 PM
My thoughts on Murray from a different thread:

I really respect your evals. It amazes me we can look at the same player and come to different observations. I see Murray as having a well above avg arm. A good mind for the game and the ability to uses his feet in the pocket to buy time and still be good enough to run for a 1st down on 3rd and 3. His biggest knocks are he didn't come up big in big games and he's short.

BTW, Jim Miller agrees with me on Murray's arm strength and he said he has seen a lot of Murray's tape in addition to seeing Murray in person.

bah007
02-26-2014, 09:42 PM
OT
1. Greg Robinson - Auburn - 1st
2. Jake Matthews - Texas A&M - 1st
3. Taylor Lewan - Michigan - 1st
4. Antonio Richardson - Tennessee - 1st
5. Morgan Moses - Virginia - 2nd
6. Cyrus Kouandijo - Alabama - 2nd
7. JuWaun James - Tennessee - 3rd
8. Joel Bitonio - Nevada - 3rd
9. James Hurst - North Carolina - 3rd
10. Cameron Fleming - Stanford - 4th
11. Seantrel Henderson - Miami - 4th
12. Billy Turner - North Dakota St - 4th
13. Wesley Johnson - Vanderbilt - 4th

OG
1. Zack Martin - Notre Dame - 1st
2. Gabe Jackson - Mississippi St - 2nd
3. Xavier Su'a-Filo - UCLA - 2nd
4. Brandon Thomas - Clemson - 2nd
5. David Yankey - Stanford - 3rd
6. Cyril Richardson - Baylor - 3rd
7. Kadeem Edwards - Tennessee St - 4th
8. Anthony Steen - Alabama - 4th
9. Trai Turner - LSU - 4th

C
1. Weston Richburg - Colorado St - 2nd
2. Marcus Martin - USC - 3rd
3. Travis Swanson - Arkansas - 3rd
4. Russell Bodine - North Carolina - 4th
5. Bryan Stork - Florida St - 4th

DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney - South Carolina - 1st
2. Kony Ealy - Missouri - 1st
3. Stephon Tuitt - Notre Dame - 1st
4. Kareem Martin - North Carolina - 1st
5. Trent Murphy - Stanford - 2nd
6. Chris Smith - Arkansas - 2nd
7. Scott Crichton - Oregon St - 2nd
8. Jackson Jeffcoat - Texas - 3rd
9. Marcus Smith - Louisville - 3rd
10. Trevor Reilly - Utah - 3rd
11. Adrian Hubbard - Alabama - 3rd
12. Brent Urban - Virginia - 4th
13. Will Clarke - West Virginia - 4th

DT
1. Aaron Donald - Pittsburgh - 1st
2. Timmy Jernigan - Florida St - 1st
3. Louis Nix - Notre Dame - 1st
4. Ra'Shede Hageman - Minnesota - 2nd
5. Dominique Easley - Florida - 2nd
6. Kelcy Quarles - South Carolina - 2nd
7. Will Sutton - Arizona St - 2nd
8. DaQuan Jones - Penn St - 3rd
9. DeAndre Coleman - California - 3rd
10. Ego Ferguson - LSU - 3rd
11. Caraun Reid - Princeton - 4th
12. Anthony Johnson - LSU - 4th
13. George Uko - USC - 4th
14. Ryan Carrethers - Arkansas St - 4th

Some of the guys I have listed at DE do not project to that position (ex. Jeffcoat is a 34 edge rusher), but I list them with the other DEs because I rate them as pure pass rushers who I would not use in coverage.

bah007
02-26-2014, 09:45 PM
I really respect your evals. It amazes me we can look at the same player and come to different observations. I see Murray as having a well above avg arm. A good mind for the game and the ability to uses his feet in the pocket to buy time and still be good enough to run for a 1st down on 3rd and 3. His biggest knocks are he didn't come up big in big games and he's short.

BTW, Jim Miller agrees with me on Murray's arm strength and he said he has seen a lot of Murray's tape in addition to seeing Murray in person.

Murray has plenty of arm strength in the sense that he can throw the ball far, what I mean is that I don't think his ball has enough zip on it. To me, it doesn't seem to get to it's destination quickly enough.

I respect his preparation but I think he is a very poor improviser. He makes good checks at the line, but if his first read is covered he seems to take forever to find the next one.

He has good feet in the pocket but he panics under pressure.

I think a lot of his issues can be worked with, but I still feel that his ceiling is that of a NFL backup.

steelbtexan
02-26-2014, 11:41 PM
Murray has plenty of arm strength in the sense that he can throw the ball far, what I mean is that I don't think his ball has enough zip on it. To me, it doesn't seem to get to it's destination quickly enough.

I respect his preparation but I think he is a very poor improviser. He makes good checks at the line, but if his first read is covered he seems to take forever to find the next one.

He has good feet in the pocket but he panics under pressure.

I think a lot of his issues can be worked with, but I still feel that his ceiling is that of a NFL backup.

To be fair, All of Murray's WR's and RB's got hurt. Because of this Murray's timing was off against Vandy. He flat out stunk against S.Carolina. But when you compare Nurray's body of work against every other QB in this draft. Murray hold up as well as any QB in this draft. IMHO Whether Murray's game translates well to the NFL is the question. I think he has a chance to be as good as Schaub was in 2009 and in my mind that's good enough to win a SB. How many/of the QB's in this draft have a chance to be as good as 2009 Scaub. 1 probably be better but I wouldn't bet on any of them.

bah007
02-27-2014, 11:38 AM
To be fair, All of Murray's WR's and RB's got hurt. Because of this Murray's timing was off against Vandy. He flat out stunk against S.Carolina. But when you compare Nurray's body of work against every other QB in this draft. Murray hold up as well as any QB in this draft. IMHO Whether Murray's game translates well to the NFL is the question. I think he has a chance to be as good as Schaub was in 2009 and in my mind that's good enough to win a SB. How many/of the QB's in this draft have a chance to be as good as 2009 Scaub. 1 probably be better but I wouldn't bet on any of them.

That's a fair assessment. I agree that his mental makeup translates to the pros very well, which is why I think he will have a long NFL career.

Where we disagree is that I do not think that his physical skill set translates very well.

I think he would make a great backup because he could probably learn the intricacies of any system fairly quickly, he has the necessary skills to come into the game in a pinch if need be, but I don't believe he is talented enough to be a starting QB. I would be all for giving him a shot to prove me wrong. He seems like the kind of guy who would put more than his fair share of the work in, but I think his ceiling lies somewhere below good Schaub and above Keenum's.

bah007
02-27-2014, 11:56 AM
OLB
1. Khalil Mack - Buffalo - 1st
2. Anthony Barr - UCLA - 1st
3. Ryan Shazier - Ohio St - 1st
4. Kyle Van Noy - BYU - 1st
5. Dee Ford - Auburn - 1st
6. Lamin Barrow - LSU - 2nd
7. Telvin Smith - Florida St - 3rd
8. Jeremiah Attaochu - Georgia Tech - 3rd
9. Jordan Zumwalt - UCLA - 4th
10. Kevin Pierre-Louis - Boston College - 4th
11. Christian Kirksey - Iowa - 4th
12. Tyler Starr - South Dakota - 4th

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley - Alabama - 1st
2. Carl Bradford - Arizona St - 2nd
3. Chris Borland - Wisconsin - 2nd
4. Yawin Smallwood - Connecticut - 2nd
5. Shayne Skov - Stanford - 2nd
6. Christian Jones - Florida St - 3rd
7. Andrew Jackson - Western Kentucky - 4th

CB
1. Justin Gilbert - Oklahoma St - 1st
2. Darqueze Dennard - Michigan St - 1st
3. Jason Verrett - TCU - 1st
4. Kyle Fuller - Virginia Tech - 1st
5. Bradley Roby - Ohio St - 2nd
6. Keith McGill - Utah - 2nd
7. Marcus Roberson - Florida - 3rd
8. E.J. Gaines - Missouri - 3rd
9. Terrance Mitchell - Oregon - 3rd
10. Ross Cockrell - Duke - 4th
11. Loucheiz Purifoy - Florida - 4th
12. Rashaad Reynolds - Oregon St - 4th
13. Antone Exum - Virginia Tech - 4th
14. Jaylen Watkins - Florida - 4th
15. Andre Hal - Vanderbilt - 4th

FS
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix - Alabama - 1st
2. Lamarcus Joyner - Florida St - 2nd
3. Deone Bucannon - Washington St - 2nd
4. Calvin Pryor - Louisville - 2nd
5. Terrence Brooks - Florida St - 3rd
6. Pierre Desir - Lindenwood - 3rd
7. Jimmie Ward - Northern Illinois - 3rd
8. Stanley Jean-Baptiste - Nebraska - 4th
9. Tre Boston - North Carolina - 4th

SS
1. Craig Loston - LSU - 2nd
2. Ed Reynolds - Stanford - 3rd
3. Ahmad Dixon - Baylor - 4th
4. Kenny Ladler - Vanderbilt - 4th

I designate FS and SS differently than most. To me, FS is a S that I would trust with coverage responsibility. SS is a S that I would not. Depending on scheme, some of these guys would line up elsewhere. Ex. Joyner and Desir are CB/S hybrids to me, they could play anywhere from CB, NB, FS, or SS depending on what team they are on.

steelbtexan
02-27-2014, 01:00 PM
Bah, have you looked at Dimtri Goodson? He's a real late rd sleeper that could really be a upgrade from McCain. I also like Carrington Byndham for that role.

WolverineFan
02-27-2014, 01:08 PM
Bah, have you looked at Dimtri Goodson? He's a real late rd sleeper that could really be a upgrade from McCain. I also like Carrington Byndham for that role.

Haha I played with Meech (Demetri). Can't believe he's an NFL prospect now. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way. He was just always a basketball player first and didn't take football serious in high school.

bah007
02-27-2014, 02:06 PM
Bah, have you looked at Dimtri Goodson? He's a real late rd sleeper that could really be a upgrade from McCain. I also like Carrington Byndham for that role.

I'm very familiar with both Goodson and Byndom. I have both rated as UDFAs right now.

Goodson is very raw, which is fine but he is going to be 25 at the start of his rookie year. He also looks pretty soft. He doesn't like contact. That's okay if you're an exceptional athlete, but he's not. He's a good athlete. He's also an injury waiting to happen. If his brother weren't already in the NFL I don't think people would think very highly of him.

Byndom is not athletic enough to be a NFL CB and not physical enough to be a Safety, IMO. He had one good pretty good year in college but regressed quite a bit the year after.

There are a bunch of quality CBs this year which pushes these guys down the list. I think both could have an outside shot at making a roster, but I wouldn't bet on it.

thunderkyss
02-27-2014, 02:50 PM
I think he would make a great backup because he could probably learn the intricacies of any system fairly quickly, he has the necessary skills to come into the game in a pinch if need be, but I don't believe he is talented enough to be a starting QB. I would be all for giving him a shot to prove me wrong. He seems like the kind of guy who would put more than his fair share of the work in, but I think his ceiling lies somewhere below good Schaub and above Keenum's.

For any of these guys, I think if you get him with a Kubiak, Shanahan, Mike Martz, Josh McDaniels, Mike McCoy... or hopefully Bill O"Brien I think they will do very well..... good Schaub would be their floor..... jmo. It's up to them to bring the playmaking ability with them.

I like the Mettenberger, Murray, & McCarrons better because watching them I see them hang in the pocket & work their system more than the other guys. Even Bridgewater. These guys pump fake, throw back shoulder, look off safeties, & take hits in the pocket as they throw a fairly accurate ball.

Murray & McCarron, I think are the most NFL ready. May not be the most athletic, don't have a lot of wow. Mettenberger & Bridgewater are probably next on my list. Then Fales & Bortles.

Manziel is totally different..... on a scale all his own, more like Vick, Newton, & Young. Mostly wow. He doesn't have the arm those three had & he doesn't have the size of Newton & Young, or the speed of Vick (or Newton).

TexansFTW
02-27-2014, 03:58 PM
If Hyde can drop about 10-15 pounds and improve his top end speed just a little (4.50) 40 I think that guy can be special.

I love the way he bounces off tackles, but I think in the NFL they are a little more apt to not you let slide past the first defender every time, so he needs a little more top end speed.

Obviously good stuff.

Well... He didn't do it. Slower than I thought. Is he the next Eddie Lacy?

I know you told me to watch his other events, but I don't think that he even attempted them so this is pretty much what I have to go off of.

bah007
02-27-2014, 09:10 PM
Well... He didn't do it. Slower than I thought. Is he the next Eddie Lacy?

I know you told me to watch his other events, but I don't think that he even attempted them so this is pretty much what I have to go off of.

Yea I think he pulled a hamstring or something because I didn't see him do anything after the 40 and it looked like he came up lame.

bah007
02-27-2014, 09:18 PM
For any of these guys, I think if you get him with a Kubiak, Shanahan, Mike Martz, Josh McDaniels, Mike McCoy... or hopefully Bill O"Brien I think they will do very well..... good Schaub would be their floor..... jmo. It's up to them to bring the playmaking ability with them.

I like the Mettenberger, Murray, & McCarrons better because watching them I see them hang in the pocket & work their system more than the other guys. Even Bridgewater. These guys pump fake, throw back shoulder, look off safeties, & take hits in the pocket as they throw a fairly accurate ball.

Murray & McCarron, I think are the most NFL ready. May not be the most athletic, don't have a lot of wow. Mettenberger & Bridgewater are probably next on my list. Then Fales & Bortles.

Manziel is totally different..... on a scale all his own, more like Vick, Newton, & Young. Mostly wow. He doesn't have the arm those three had & he doesn't have the size of Newton & Young, or the speed of Vick (or Newton).

To each their own. I am a fan of guys who are "pro ready", as they require less projection and mental work to adapt to the pros. But you still need to have the physical skill set, which I think Murray lacks.

I think Bridgewater and Murray are the two most mentally pro ready passers in this draft. If O'Brien picked Murray I would be ecstatic, as it would show that he believes Murray has the necessary physical skills.

McCarron played in a pro system but he was so protected that it's hard to project his skills. He barely had to do anything, not necessarily because he can't but he certainly wasn't asked to.

Mettenberger played in Cameron's offense and made great strides this year, but it was only his first year in that system. He still has a long way to go mentally.

I want no part of Manziel. He may end up great but his flaws are gargantuan to me and not worth the risk.

aussie_texan
02-27-2014, 09:19 PM
OLB
1. Khalil Mack - Buffalo - 1st
2. Anthony Barr - UCLA - 1st
3. Ryan Shazier - Ohio St - 1st
4. Kyle Van Noy - BYU - 1st
5. Dee Ford - Auburn - 1st
6. Lamin Barrow - LSU - 2nd
7. Telvin Smith - Florida St - 3rd
8. Jeremiah Attaochu - Georgia Tech - 3rd
9. Jordan Zumwalt - UCLA - 4th
10. Kevin Pierre-Louis - Boston College - 4th
11. Christian Kirksey - Iowa - 4th
12. Tyler Starr - South Dakota - 4th


BIG drop off after the top guys. i wonder if the texans will have similar evaluations and intern what they do about it. go after someone in FA, or trade down targeting one of the top guys?

rmartin65
02-27-2014, 11:22 PM
I love your work, bah. This is some excellent stuff.