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CloakNNNdagger
11-30-2013, 08:17 AM
At a time when ProFootballTalk reports Gruden says he’d like to give coaching “one more try,” Houston could reasonably find its way around the top of the list. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/26/gruden-says-hed-like-to-give-coaching-one-more-try/) The mention of the Cowboys would seem unlikely when you try to picture Jerry and Jon's personalities clashing (especially where it would come to being able to control the direction of the team).

Then, yesterday,


Jon Gruden in George Bush Intercontinental Airport, Houston, TX, USA

Rumors floating around that Jon Gruden has been spotted at Bush Airport. Could he be meeting with Bob McNair and Rick Smith. #Texans


by jhacevedo 16 hours ago
Twitter (https://twitter.com/jhacevedo/status/406540321581826048)

A social visit? A visit to simply attend the Pats/Texans game? An off-schedule tour of the strip clubs?.............or the beginnings of building blocks for a new Texans team?

HJam72
11-30-2013, 08:35 AM
At a time when ProFootballTalk reports Gruden says he’d like to give coaching “one more try,” Houston could reasonably find its way around the top of the list. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/26/gruden-says-hed-like-to-give-coaching-one-more-try/) The mention of the Cowboys would seem unlikely when you try to picture Jerry and Jon's personalities clashing (especially where it would come to being able to control the direction of the team).

Then, yesterday,


Twitter (https://twitter.com/jhacevedo/status/406540321581826048)

A social visit? A visit to simply attend the Pats/Texans game? An off-schedule tour of the strip clubs?.............or the beginnings of building blocks for a new Texans team?

My guess is all 4.

Lucky
11-30-2013, 08:36 AM
Was McNair's jet not available? "Consulting" with Gruden might be the first step.

All of the anti-Gruden sentiment on this board has me bewildered. He's won before and he's not the kind of coach who will come in with a 5 year, er 6 year plan. Gruden will want to win in 2014.

I would like to see who else is interested. But would I have a problem with Jon Gruden as the next head coach of the Houston Texans? No. He would be the best hire McNair has ever made and the type of leader this organization is dying for.

KA4Texan
11-30-2013, 08:36 AM
Twitter (https://twitter.com/jhacevedo/status/406540321581826048)



I didn't know Jesus uses Twitter.

If he said it, it must be true. :kitten:

Nawzer
11-30-2013, 08:38 AM
He's probably here to check out the Patriots.

TheRealJoker
11-30-2013, 08:57 AM
*Gruden voice*

I like that guy. Thus hire would get me pumped up!

ArlingtonTexan
11-30-2013, 09:09 AM
Was McNair's jet not available? "Consulting" with Gruden might be the first step.

All of the anti-Gruden sentiment on this board has me bewildered. He's won before and he's not the kind of coach who will come in with a 5 year, er 6 year plan. Gruden will want to win in 2014.

I would like to see who else is interested. But would I have a problem with Jon Gruden as the next head coach of the Houston Texans? No. He would be the best hire McNair has ever made and the type of leader this organization is dying for.

We would not have to sit through another coach learning to be a head coach. this team is more ready made for success in 2014 than the record indicates, but needs a more forceful personality than either Capers/Kubiak.

He has a WCO background so there probably won't be a radical terminology change, but probably issues of different usages. If my memory serves correctly, he did not make any rash changes to an already built defense in Tampa bay, so my guess is that he is not locked into a defensive system and will let the defense coordinator ya know coordinate.

He is only 50, so age is not an issue, and while he has been not been grinding out coaches hours in the filmroom, he certainly has not been away from the game for five years.

Hell, he was the last guy to figure out how to win games regularly with Al Davis meddling and the Glazers are pieces of work also. If anything McNair will be a welcome change for Gruden.

Fred
11-30-2013, 09:13 AM
An off-schedule tour of the strip clubs?

If this happens Houston will definitely be his number one choice. Texan Bill - show Chuckie the sights!

Honoring Earl 34
11-30-2013, 09:26 AM
Was McNair's jet not available? "Consulting" with Gruden might be the first step.

All of the anti-Gruden sentiment on this board has me bewildered. He's won before and he's not the kind of coach who will come in with a 5 year, er 6 year plan. Gruden will want to win in 2014.

I would like to see who else is interested. But would I have a problem with Jon Gruden as the next head coach of the Houston Texans? No. He would be the best hire McNair has ever made and the type of leader this organization is dying for.

Yep ... Gruden or another less successful retread or a guy who has never been a head coach . Bob has to strike now while the iron is fairly hot .

Rey
11-30-2013, 09:32 AM
Would love to have gruden.

Lots of people knock him by saying he took dungy's team to a Super Bowl.

1) he got that team over the hump. That team had struggled to reach that next step and he got them there. That wasn't jimmy Johnson's cowboys that had already won and was simply on auto pilot.

2) he won the Super Bowl against his former team. So he either way you want to look at it, he got a team to the Super Bowl.

3) he had some down years in Tampa, but they also were transitioning from the days of all those stars they had to a team without much talent. Tampa hasn't really done anything since moving on from gruden. Maybe had they kept him around they would have been better off.

Honoring Earl 34
11-30-2013, 09:34 AM
Would love to have gruden.

Lots of people knock him by saying he took dungy's team to a Super Bowl.

1) he got that team over the hump. That team had struggled to reach that next step and he got them there. That wasn't jimmy Johnson's cowboys that had already won and was simply on auto pilot.

2) he won the Super Bowl against his former team. So he either way you want to look at it, he got a team to the Super Bowl.

3) he had some down years in Tampa, but they also were transitioning from the days of all those stars they had to a team without much talent. Tampa hasn't really done anything since moving on from gruden. Maybe had they kept him around they would have been better off.

Gruden is a QB guru ... hmmm .

HJam72
11-30-2013, 09:36 AM
He's also a Johnny Manziel supporter...

TejasTom
11-30-2013, 09:38 AM
Gruden is a QB guru ... hmmm .

He's also a Johnny Manziel supporter...

So is here to see if he can win Schaub, Keenum or Manziel?

Texian
11-30-2013, 09:52 AM
All of the anti-Gruden sentiment on this board has me bewildered. He's won before and he's not the kind of coach who will come in with a 5 year, er 6 year plan. Gruden will want to win in 2014.

Checkout what many of Gruden's players had to say about him after he was fired. Your bewilderment will no longer be. You will understand why he was fired and hasn't been offered another NFL HC job since. Gruden after 6 years with Tampa was a .500 coach after being handed a Super Bowl team.

bhsman
11-30-2013, 09:54 AM
For Pete's sake, not Gruden. Or Cowher.

Honoring Earl 34
11-30-2013, 10:09 AM
Checkout what many of Gruden's players had to say about him after he was fired. Your bewilderment will no longer be. You will understand why he was fired and hasn't been offered another NFL HC job since. Gruden after 6 years with Tampa was a .500 coach after being handed a Super Bowl team.

Bill Belichick and Alex Gibb's players aren't fond of them either . Vince Lombardi's players didn't think it was a cake walk .

michaelm
11-30-2013, 10:49 AM
Checkout what many of Gruden's players had to say about him after he was fired. Your bewilderment will no longer be. You will understand why he was fired and hasn't been offered another NFL HC job since. Gruden after 6 years with Tampa was a .500 coach after being handed a Super Bowl team.

I'm not a Gruden supporter, but he either gets credit for getting TB to the Super Bowl, or credit for building the Raider team that TB faced in that Super Bowl.
You can't say he had nothing to do with getting TB to the top because it was built by someone else, then deny him credit for being the guy who built the Raiders.

Playoffs
11-30-2013, 10:54 AM
For Pete's sake, not Gruden. Or Cowher.

I'm with Pete. http://stockfresh.com/files/d/devon/x/90/907635_51385079.jpg

Texian
11-30-2013, 11:01 AM
Bill Belichick and Alex Gibb's players aren't fond of them either . Vince Lombardi's players didn't think it was a cake walk .

Did Belichick's, Gibb's and Lombardi's players accuse them of being dishonest? Liars? Look you in the eye and tell tell you one thing and then turn around and do something totally opposite of what the said or promised you?

JCTexan
11-30-2013, 11:02 AM
For Pete's sake, not Gruden. Or Cowher.

I don't really care for Gruden either, but Cowher would be at the top of my list. He coached a tough Steeler team that seemed to always be good defensively and he got them a couple Super Bowl wins. I doubt he would come out of retirement to coach Houston but I would jump at the chance.

Lucky
11-30-2013, 11:22 AM
Checkout what many of Gruden's players had to say about him after he was fired. Your bewilderment will no longer be.

As a fan, why would I care how the players feel about the coach? The players have always professed their love for Kubiak. Where has that gotten the team? What goes on behind closed doors on Kirby is their business. All I want or am concerned with is having a winning team.

b0ng
11-30-2013, 11:39 AM
Hell, he was the last guy to figure out how to win games regularly with Al Davis meddling and the Glazers are pieces of work also. If anything McNair will be a welcome change for Gruden.

The Glazers pretty much let him do whatever he wanted and in the last few years at TB he pretty much collected QB's of all kinds (old and washed up, 7th round picks and all other sorts). He's a decent commentator on MNF but I'm not really sold that he'll be able to build a team like he did with the Raiders in the early 00's (Even with Al Davis meddling with everything).

I know that TB traded away some first rounders to get Gruden, but his overall drafting leaves A LOT to be desired.

EDIT: That twitter account that says there are rumors of Gruden at Bush is. . . not anybody. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Uncle Rico
11-30-2013, 11:44 AM
If Gruden is the next guy the the Keenum Krewe can breathe a sigh of relief. Gruden has had underwhelming QBs in OAK and Tampa.

Runner
11-30-2013, 11:46 AM
I'd like to see Gruden here.

Norg
11-30-2013, 11:48 AM
were is my chucky doll lOL

disaacks3
11-30-2013, 11:59 AM
Did Belichick's, Gibb's and Lombardi's players accuse them of being dishonest? Liars? Look you in the eye and tell tell you one thing and then turn around and do something totally opposite of what the said or promised you? Not sure about them, but plenty of players felt that way about Jimmy Johnson.

The Pencil Neck
11-30-2013, 12:08 PM
Gruden liked Keenum when he was coming out of college.

I'm not a huge Gruden fan. No coach has won a SB with two different teams and I don't see Gruden changing that fact.

But if he's the guy, I'll support him and hope he's the first.

Thorn
11-30-2013, 12:18 PM
Gruden liked Keenum when he was coming out of college.

I'm not a huge Gruden fan. No coach has won a SB with two different teams and I don't see Gruden changing that fact.

But if he's the guy, I'll support him and hope he's the first.

This is pretty much where I'm at. Gruden is not my favorite choice, but then I can not possibly see where he would be worse than Kubiak. At this point I'd take a monkey with a music box over Kubiak.

Pollardized
11-30-2013, 12:25 PM
This is pretty much where I'm at. Gruden is not my favorite choice, but then I can not possibly see where he would be worse than Kubiak. At this point I'd take a monkey with a music box over Kubiak.

You mean Kubiak isn't a monkey with a music box?

Thorn
11-30-2013, 12:27 PM
You mean Kubiak isn't a monkey with a music box?

Kubiak's music box is broke. Kind of like my give-ah-$hitter.

b0ng
11-30-2013, 12:31 PM
This is pretty much where I'm at. Gruden is not my favorite choice, but then I can not possibly see where he would be worse than Kubiak. At this point I'd take a monkey with a music box over Kubiak.

You know what, I hope when GB fires Dom Capers, the Texans hire him again since apparently your memory is getting really bad.

Thorn
11-30-2013, 12:40 PM
You know what, I hope when GB fires Dom Capers, the Texans hire him again since apparently your memory is getting really bad.

My memory is pretty damn good, and Capers isn't coming back here. That's silly. Besides which, it doesn't matter who you hire anyway as long as they do have legitimate qualifications. First thing they have to do is rebuild/remold the team to where they want it. And who among us posting here really knows how they will do it? Every situation and team is different, which means the rebuilding/remolding process is different along with the new HC's perceptions of how to do it.

With the Texans all healthy you have the basis to a damn good team. If. If. If. What matters now is it isn't going to work with Kubiak. Maybe it'll work with (insert name here), who knows? Nothing is guaranteed with the exception of Kubiak has lost it with the Texans.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 12:40 PM
Lets just keep Gary

No need to go out and get a proven winner like Jon Gruden. People amaze me they make all kinds of excuses to keep Gary, (He's a QB guru) and dont like Gruden. Gruden developed Gannon who has Gary developed?

Maybe Jon is checking the Texans out for my candidate as next Texans HC, Jay Gruden.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 12:44 PM
You know what, I hope when GB fires Dom Capers, the Texans hire him again since apparently your memory is getting really bad.

Maybe the Texans will draft Derek Carr 1-1 and BoB will have come full circle with Capers/Carr duo. All that will be missing is Pendry/Fangio as OC/DC. Keep Coach Joe and the coachin staff is complete. Wonder how Casserly is doing these days?

dalemurphy
11-30-2013, 12:50 PM
Lets just keep Gary

No need to go out and get a proven winner like Jon Gruden. People amaze me they make all kinds of excuses to keep Gary, (He's a QB guru) and dont like Gruden. Gruden developed Gannon who has Gary developed?

Maybe Jon is checking the Texans out for my candidate as next Texans HC, Jay Gruden.

Who is making excuses to keep Gary? I don't think anyone is. Not wanting some potential replacements does not equate to wanting Kubiak to return. I don't understand how that gets confused.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 12:53 PM
Who is making excuses to keep Gary? I don't think anyone is. Not wanting some potential replacements does not equate to wanting Kubiak to return. I don't understand how that gets confused.

They've been making excuses since 2010.

3 wasted yrs and would've been more if Gary could've only gotten the Texans to that magical 7-9, 9-7 mark.

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 12:55 PM
He has a WCO background so there probably won't be a radical terminology change, but probably issues of different usages.

Actually yeah there would be a radical change assuming he would resume his old style. Back when he was going through his hire any and every QB phase in Tampa there were a couple shows on his play calling and how different (and difficult) it was from pretty much every other coach at the time - particularly how hard it is on QBs. He whips off a very long call at an auctioneer's pace and the QBs have a hard time comprehending it and conveying it in the huddle. If you look at his success it came with very veteran QBs - Gannon, Johnson and Garcia.

They've been making excuses since 2010.

Saying you don't want Gruden is not making an excuse for Kubiak. I have provided at least six names for coaches I hope the Texans look at for replacing Kubiak. I just do not like or want Gruden.

ArlingtonTexan
11-30-2013, 12:56 PM
The Glazers pretty much let him do whatever he wanted and in the last few years at TB he pretty much collected QB's of all kinds (old and washed up, 7th round picks and all other sorts). He's a decent commentator on MNF but I'm not really sold that he'll be able to build a team like he did with the Raiders in the early 00's (Even with Al Davis meddling with everything).

I know that TB traded away some first rounders to get Gruden, but his overall drafting leaves A LOT to be desired.

EDIT: That twitter account that says there are rumors of Gruden at Bush is. . . not anybody. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

So Gruden publically called one of the glazers "son of *****" but you telling me that he had this great relationship with them..see the link in the original post in this thread.

dalemurphy
11-30-2013, 12:58 PM
They've been making excuses since 2010.

3 wasted yrs and would've been more if Gary could've only gotten the Texans to that magical 7-9, 9-7 mark.

I just don't see how anyone could see 2011 and 2012 as wasted years.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 01:09 PM
So Gruden publically called one of the glazers "son of *****" but you telling me that he had this great relationship with them..see the link in the original post in this thread.

Dont mess up Bong with things like this. It doesn't fit the narrative.

Sorry, but great HC's aren't usually known as great guys. They're usually kinda cold and a little arrogant. (My way or the highway) Lombardi/Landry/Brown/Shula,Johnson/Walsh. Today Belichick/Harbaughs etc....

b0ng
11-30-2013, 01:13 PM
My memory is pretty damn good, and Capers isn't coming back here. That's silly. Besides which, it doesn't matter who you hire anyway as long as they do have legitimate qualifications. First thing they have to do is rebuild/remold the team to where they want it. And who among us posting here really knows how they will do it? Every situation and team is different, which means the rebuilding/remolding process is different along with the new HC's perceptions of how to do it.

With the Texans all healthy you have the basis to a damn good team. If. If. If. What matters now is it isn't going to work with Kubiak. Maybe it'll work with (insert name here), who knows? Nothing is guaranteed with the exception of Kubiak has lost it with the Texans.


Capers was every bit of a clownshoe as Kubiak has been this year, but without the 2 playoff appearances. Yes Kubiak has done badly this year and should be fired, but we've already had worse and it sucked.

In the NFL, the team that wins is usually the team that is healthiest at the end of the season, skill level be damned (almost). I think there are a few coaches that could be brought in who could make the proper changes that can get this roster back on track. But we've already had a "Worst coach in Texans history" and I don't think it's Kubiak.

IDEXAN
11-30-2013, 01:21 PM
IAH is one of the top 10 airports in the country in terms of traffic and like most large airports the biggest part of it's traffic is connecting thru the airport for other destinations, so that's probably what Gruden was doing at Bush.

IDEXAN
11-30-2013, 01:23 PM
Not sure about them, but plenty of players felt that way about Jimmy Johnson.
If Johnson would cheat and lie to his wife, of course he'd do the same with a
mere member of his football roster.

dalemurphy
11-30-2013, 01:28 PM
Dont mess up Bong with things like this. It doesn't fit the narrative.

Sorry, but great HC's aren't usually known as great guys. They're usually kinda cold and a little arrogant. (My way or the highway) Lombardi/Landry/Brown/Shula,Johnson/Walsh. Today Belichick/Harbaughs etc....

Respect is usually central to great coaches. If gruden has a reputation as a liar, that could be an issue... I don't know about any of that. My issue with gruden is that he has been away from coaching too long to make a quick transition back in... Particularly, I worry about his ability to quickly put together a competent staff (insert joe Marciano jokes).

Ideally, I want an innovative coach currently coaching in the NFL or college with close working relationships with other coaches that would likely move with him in year one... That is the scenario most likely to yield short and long term success, IMO.

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 01:29 PM
Dont mess up Bong with things like this. It doesn't fit the narrative.

Sorry, but great HC's aren't usually known as great guys. They're usually kinda cold and a little arrogant. (My way or the highway) Lombardi/Landry/Brown/Shula,Johnson/Walsh. Today Belichick/Harbaughs etc....

There is a huge difference between being stern and tough v. being a d!ck. Landry was not a warm and fuzzy coach and many of his players were intimidated by him but with a couple of exceptions like Duane Thomas who was pissing away his career they loved him as a coach.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 01:59 PM
Respect is usually central to great coaches. If gruden has a reputation as a liar, that could be an issue... I don't know about any of that. My issue with gruden is that he has been away from coaching too long to make a quick transition back in... Particularly, I worry about his ability to quickly put together a competent staff (insert joe Marciano jokes).

Ideally, I want an innovative coach currently coaching in the NFL or college with close working relationships with other coaches that would likely move with him in year one... That is the scenario most likely to yield short and long term success, IMO.

Agreed

Which is why I want Jay Gruden as HC.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 02:00 PM
There is a huge difference between being stern and tough v. being a d!ck. Landry was not a warm and fuzzy coach and many of his players were intimidated by him but with a couple of exceptions like Duane Thomas who was pissing away his career they loved him as a coach.

Ever seen North Dallas Forty?

Thorn
11-30-2013, 02:02 PM
When it's all said and done, new coaches are like draft picks and the weather. All you can do is hope for the best.

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 02:06 PM
Ever seen North Dallas Forty?

Yes, two of my friends were in it. Are we taking that as fact now? Hold on, I have to let Gandolf in the front door...

Ask Hollywood Henderson about Landry's attitude on drugs, and whether he liked Landry.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 02:09 PM
Did Pete Gent play on the Cowboys?

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 02:16 PM
Did Pete Gent play on the Cowboys?

Yes, so? It doesn't change a work of fiction into a fact source.

Gent on Landry in a non-fictional setting:

"Over the course of a high school, college and pro career, an athlete is exposed to all sorts of coaches, (including) great ones who are geniuses breaking new ground in their game. Tom Landry was like that ... When you are young, you think you are going to meet men like this your whole life. You think the world is full of genius, and it isn't until you leave the game that you found out you may have met the greatest men you will ever meet."

FYI - Gent's best friend was Meredith who Landry benched.

Texian
11-30-2013, 02:49 PM
Gruden would mean keeping the WCO and ZBS. Gruden would also become the quickest FIRED HC of the Texans.

Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Not sure about them, but plenty of players felt that way about Jimmy Johnson.

Not familiar with any of Johnson player's comments of this kind with exception of maybe those players who were cut for sleeping in meetings. Most players during his tenure with the Cowboys, love and swear by their coach. The same is true for his Miami Hurricane players. I also understand that if Gruden was an axe murdering, pillage and raping Head Coach there would still be those who would still want Gruden to be the Texans Head Coach. :)

dalemurphy
11-30-2013, 02:55 PM
Agreed

Which is why I want Jay Gruden as HC.

I don't have a strong opinion on him yet, but I do see that there are things to like. Who would run his defense?... His entire football career is very offense-centric, I believe. So, what his defensive philosophy would be and who would implement it would be a crucial element.

leebigeztx
11-30-2013, 03:34 PM
Not a big fan of gruden. After the sb,that team went downhill and was consistently missing the playoffs. Guys like garcia speak of how much terminology is in the offense. There is a reason he really never developed a young qb. I prefer holmgren because he's won a sb and went to another. Through the years, he got favre,aaron brooks,mark brunell,and hasselback ready to play and pawned them for picks.

CloakNNNdagger
11-30-2013, 03:46 PM
IAH is one of the top 10 airports in the country in terms of traffic and like most large airports the biggest part of it's traffic is connecting thru the airport for other destinations, so that's probably what Gruden was doing at Bush.

He lives in Tampa and needs to be in Seattle prior to the MNF stint. A connecting flight would hardly be practical through Houston in that there are no non-stop flights from here to Seattle. Coming from Tampa, there are several 1-stop flights to Seattle like through JFK or Dallas.

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 04:17 PM
He lives in Tampa and needs to be in Seattle prior to the MNF stint. A connecting flight would hardly be practical through Houston in that there are no non-stop flights from here to Seattle. Coming from Tampa, there are several 1-stop flights to Seattle like through JFK or Dallas.

I just searched on Orbitz and United, Alaska and Delta all came up with non-stops IAH to Seattle. Expedia same thing.

CloakNNNdagger
11-30-2013, 04:26 PM
I just searched on Orbitz and United, Alaska and Delta all came up with non-stops IAH to Seattle. Expedia same thing.

Looks like you're right. Two years ago, I requested nonstop to Seattle and found that there were no carriers with such a route.

Texian
11-30-2013, 04:32 PM
I just searched on Orbitz and United, Alaska and Delta all came up with non-stops IAH to Seattle. Expedia same thing.

Looks like you're right. Two years ago, I requested nonstop to Seattle and found that there were no carriers with such a route.

IAH most direct major connection city for TPA to SEA flight.

b0ng
11-30-2013, 04:46 PM
The Glazers are more of the "holy **** these guys are cheap" type owners than meddlesome. I doubt Gruden called one of them an SOB because they were trying to change things schematically, and were more or less content with letting their SB team crumble around them. After 2003 the front office let go of Warren Sapp and John Lynch and decided to sign some nobodies on offense to compensate.

And anybody here ever hear of Gruden developing a young QB? How about Gruden drafting somebody worth, I don't know, anything? The only way I could support a Gruden hire was if Cutler was released and signed by the Texans.

TheMatrix31
11-30-2013, 05:13 PM
Lets just keep Gary

No need to go out and get a proven winner like Jon Gruden. People amaze me they make all kinds of excuses to keep Gary, (He's a QB guru) and dont like Gruden. Gruden developed Gannon who has Gary developed?

Maybe Jon is checking the Texans out for my candidate as next Texans HC, Jay Gruden.

Dude, nobody is making excuses to keep Kubiak. Do you know how to read? Can you quote where people are saying that? Holy ****. Stretch more why don't you. My goodness gracious. Not being 100% enthusiastic about a potential future coaching candidate doesn't exactly mean you want the current guy to stay. Maaaaaaaaaaan.

Hervoyel
11-30-2013, 05:23 PM
I just don't see how anyone could see 2011 and 2012 as wasted years.

I saw 2011 and 2012 as a nice change of pace but I still felt like I was watching a team that didn't have the necessary components to threaten the really good teams come playoff time.

Lucky
11-30-2013, 05:43 PM
Who would run his defense?... His entire football career is very offense-centric, I believe. So, what his defensive philosophy would be and who would implement it would be a crucial element.
Questions that should have been asked to Gary Kubiak in 2006.

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 05:48 PM
And anybody here ever hear of Gruden developing a young QB?

In 11 seasons - QBs drafted
Marques Tuiasosopo 2nd - 554 career yds
Chris Simms 3rd - 3117 yds
Bruce Gradkowski 6th - 4057 yds (mostly outside Tampa)
Josh Johnson 5th - 1042 yds

Lucky
11-30-2013, 05:57 PM
But we've already had a "Worst coach in Texans history" and I don't think it's Kubiak.
Sorry, but this season is the worst in Texans history. And it's not even close to any other, 2005 included. And it all comes down to knowing your team and preparing it. Kubiak failed to realize that Schaub had lost it. Failed to realize that his o-line was a crock. Failed to realize that what his defense didn't need was an over-the-hill, injured safety that didn't like to tackle any longer. Fail. Fail. Fail. A record 9 consecutive losses (and counting). Whatever Kubiak took 7 years to build, he brought down in one fell swoop. 8 years and this team is in tatters.

Agreed on the suggestion that Gruden was just passing through to Seattle. McNair won't "embarrass" Kubiak by courting a coach with Kubiak still with the team. Another reason to dump Kubiak now (like there needs to be other reasons).

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 06:00 PM
Dude, nobody is making excuses to keep Kubiak. Do you know how to read? Can you quote where people are saying that? Holy ****. Stretch more why don't you. My goodness gracious. Not being 100% enthusiastic about a potential future coaching candidate doesn't exactly mean you want the current guy to stay. Maaaaaaaaaaan.

I seem to remember all of the 2010 sunshiners that were willing to waste 3 more yrs with Gary. (Were you at the head of the class? I cant recall) I'm sure that people like Ntrofish/surreal McCoy/probably BoB are still trying to find a way for Rick/Gary to stay. Many on the MB are still touting the virtues of Rick Smith despite 2-9 and 8 yrs of this regime.

Even the yrs they made the playoffs did you really feel they had a chance to win a SB? Or were you just hoping they didn't get blown out? Yeah Gary/Rick really built a powerhouse. They should've been gone after the 2010 failure, yet here we sit 3 yrs later debating the same HC candidates.

Candidates who Rick Smith is going to choose. Gruden has accomplished more than Gary/Rick have in their caeer and yet the same people who didn't want Gruden or any other previously successful HC are begining to make some of the sme arguments.

Funny thing is Jon Gruden isn't even my favorite for the jon. Jay Gruden or Brian Billick would be my picks.

BTW, I read just fine and cant understand why you are so abrasive, chill out man, Happy Thanksgiving. There's much to be thankful for.

Bulls on Parade
11-30-2013, 06:01 PM
In 11 seasons - QBs drafted
Marques Tuiasosopo 2nd - 554 career yds
Chris Simms 3rd - 3117 yds
Bruce Gradkowski 6th - 4057 yds (mostly outside Tampa)
Josh Johnson 5th - 1042 yds
He did win a Super Bowl with Brad Johnson as his starting quarterback. Maybe he could win one with Matt Schaub, who's still signed to a multi-year contract. I'm okay loading up on defense in the next draft, signing a veteran right tackle in free agency, and getting back a healthy Arian Foster and Brian Cushing. If that happens whoever the head coach is will definitely have a Super Bowl contender.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 06:13 PM
I saw 2011 and 2012 as a nice change of pace but I still felt like I was watching a team that didn't have the necessary components to threaten the really good teams come playoff time.

This is how I felt. Except I probably had less faith in them reaching a SB than most.

Runner
11-30-2013, 06:19 PM
Questions that should have been asked to Gary Kubiak in 2006.

That was covered by "in Kubes we trust" his first few years here

TheMatrix31
11-30-2013, 06:23 PM
I actually felt that we could have won the Super Bowl in 2011/12 if we hadn't been ravaged by injuries, specifically to Schaub. That was the year we played Baltimore and Jacoby Jones had arguably the dumbest play I've ever seen in a playoff game and the defense dominated but the offense couldn't get them points and we lost 20-13. New England was vulnerable as hell that year and if we had advanced to the AFC Championship Game I was confident we'd defeat them and go to the Super Bow.

But yeah. I did have faith. Why wouldn't I? The team was a couple stupid plays from playing the AFC Championship Game. Why is it that hard of a leap that we could have?

Ah whatever, I should look at who I'm arguing with. I'm abrasive because you have zero reading comprehension. I'm abrasive because it's exhausting trying to throw logic into things. You say stupid things like "You either want Jon Gruden or you want Kubiak to stay!" without any proof of anyone saying anything close to that and you expect people to just take that lying down? It doesn't ****ing work that way. It just doesn't. It's angering as **** trying to fight against you and people like you. You're putting words into the mouths of people that haven't been said, and when you get called out on it, you keep going back to 2010 and some arbitrary "three more years wasted" **** as if that has even the slightest relevance to anything at all.

I'm not going to apologize for liking that our team made the playoffs two years in a row and would have advanced further the first year had it not been for stupidity and an injury-ravaged team that saw our third-****ing-string quarterback heaving up fly balls to Ed Reed. Now it's time to get a coach who can get us over that hump. If I don't know if Jon Gruden is that guy, that doesn't automatically mean that I want Kubiak here.

You can say all the "we have much to be thankful for" and "chill, man" crap you want, as if you're above it all but it's just exhausting. It really is.

Hervoyel
11-30-2013, 06:29 PM
I'd be fine with Gruden but I'm not married to the idea and I wouldn't be upset if the Texans decided to go in a different direction.

I just have one thing to say about hiring him or another coach who has had success. In Gruden's case he's had success and he's had failure as well. Belichick left Cleveland with a .450 record and a reputation for being a difficult sphincter. He got he job in New England 5 years later and has taken them to 5 Super Bowls in 14 years.

I'm not saying that Gruden is going to be Bill Belichick, Nothing of the sort. I'm saying that unless that "retread" coach has been in a number of places and consistently produced the same results you really don't know what you're going to get out of a particular coach in one organization or another. Just because Gruden was successful in Oakland (He was) and had some success in Tampa Bay (He did) doesn't mean he's going to come here and be the same guy or accomplish the same things. He might. He's been successful twice before and for two very different teams. It would seem that he would be able to do that here.

He's got a career .540 record and he coached 3 losing season in 14 years between Oakland and Tampa Bay. He started off with some 8-8's and he finished up with a pair of 9-7's so in many ways he looks a bit like Kubiak.

But you never know what you're going to get. The fact that no Super Bowl winning coach has taken another team to the Super Bowl just means that it hasn't been done yet. It doesn't mean it's impossible.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 06:33 PM
I actually felt that we could have won the Super Bowl in 2011/12 if we hadn't been ravaged by injuries, specifically to Schaub. That was the year we played Baltimore and Jacoby Jones had arguably the dumbest play I've ever seen in a playoff game and the defense dominated but the offense couldn't get them points and we lost 20-13. New England was vulnerable as hell that year and if we had advanced to the AFC Championship Game I was confident we'd defeat them and go to the Super Bow.

But yeah. I did have faith. Why wouldn't I? The team was a couple stupid plays from playing the AFC Championship Game. Why is it that hard of a leap that we could have?

Ah whatever, I should look at who I'm arguing with.

Arguing I call it discussing. All teams have injuries. Discount me all you want but 2-9 says it all.

Instead of you being better than me tell me/us who you want to be thenext GM/HC. You know something constructive. Type all you want but I'm very confident in my positions when it comes to the state of the Texans. Discounting a poster but not being able to come up with ideas? Man I wish my thought processes were like yours. (Sarcasm///)

TheMatrix31
11-30-2013, 06:37 PM
Don't be a ****ing *******. 2-9 DOES say it all. I've wanted Kubiak gone for years now. Just because I've tried applying logical analysis to specific problems and occurrences throughout the years doesn't mean I'm on Kubiak's nuts or want him here still. Holy ****ing ****.

I have posted my thoughts in the Fire Kubiak/Replacement thread, you want me to go copy and paste them? Hold on, let me go get them.

EDIT:

Whatever happens, I want the offense to be very versatile and balanced. I love the rollouts and the fundamental philosophies behind what we have now. Would love to get more creative though. I'm not too crazy about Dennison and thought Baby Shanahan was much better at OC.

I want a guy who will teach the team to play hard but not stupid or dirty. We've been penalized way, way, way too much and frankly I've seen a lot of thuggery on this team on the field in recent years perhaps to overcompensate for our reputation as "being soft." I don't like that. You can play tough without being dumb or dirty. See JJ Watt.

I also don't want some college gimmick guy. You strike out on that and it's a waste of time and we'll go from simply having one down year to being in spiral mode where we're forced to truly rebuild.

I don't want Gruden. Overrated and overdiscussed. I'd like Cowher but his offensive creativity is not very prevalent.

I simply don't know who'll be available and I don't know much about coaching staffs around the league to see which coordinators we might pluck.

Yeah, you see? I have plenty of opinion on the matter. Just because I'm capable of putting those thoughts in appropriate threads (frankly, I don't know why a thread like this even exists when there's a supposedly official Fire Kubiak/Replacement thread, but hey, I'm not a moderator here and as such I guess I shouldn't point out thread organization flaws) doesn't mean I'm devoid of thought on the subject and that I'm just hurling bombs or something. If anything, you and people like you are the ones who are putting words in people's mouths, having reservations about Gruden and having that spun to mean "well you clearly want Kubiak still!" like some disingenuous prick.

EDIT: Also, since all teams have injuries, why don't you go and ****ing show me the last time a third string QB led his team to a Super Bowl. Go ahead. I ****ing dare you.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 06:51 PM
Well we can agree on one thing, neither of us want Gruden as HC.

I'm done with this lets not turn this into another Kubiak thread.

Dont be so butt hurt that things didn't turn out well.

Texan_Bill
11-30-2013, 06:57 PM
An off-schedule tour of the strip clubs

I got this!

Jon, consider me a tour guide!

Texian
11-30-2013, 07:06 PM
I saw 2011 and 2012 as a nice change of pace but I still felt like I was watching a team that didn't have the necessary components to threaten the really good teams come playoff time.

This is how I felt. Except I probably had less faith in them reaching a SB than most.

This might be because of consistent difficulties and a poor track record against teams that were .500 or >.

dalemurphy
11-30-2013, 07:07 PM
This is how I felt. Except I probably had less faith in them reaching a SB than most.

I get the lack of confidence. However, I still believe we would have won the Superbowl in 2011 if Schaub had not been injured. Everything came together perfectly and the team played great football and was largely clutch on offense and defense in big spots. So, heading into 2012, I thought things looked great. I was very concerned after the Cushing injury. Right after that, though, we destroyed Baltimore and then continued to eek out one win after another... though, I don't think that 2012 was ever anywhere near the 2011 team, looking back. By December, the Green Bay Monday night fiasco, the weekly struggles against bad teams, and the first New England loss painted a clear picture that we were in trouble when January hit... from there it has been a steep descent... It is very clear that a better head coach would have positioned this team for a larger window of championship opportunity than Kubiak has. Kubiak is not a difference-maker at head coach.

Arguably, he is the equivalent of Norv Turner- a guy that can excel as an O.C... As a head coach: a good teacher who is liked by his players and can occasional challenge for a championship if everything lines up just right, but will generally hover around mediocrity with potential outlying seasons (good or bad), depending on variables beyond his control.

That being said, I like Kubiak much more than Turner, and I hope that he learns from this experience and becomes more than that... I think he could be a great college head coach, if he finds the right situation.

Texecutioner
11-30-2013, 07:16 PM
I get the lack of confidence. However, I still believe we would have won the Superbowl in 2011 if Schaub had not been injured.


:spit: Schaub was going to be the difference maker?? The Texans would have gotten swallowed by the Patriots in that next game. Schaub? Lol!

dalemurphy
11-30-2013, 07:20 PM
I seem to remember all of the 2010 sunshiners that were willing to waste 3 more yrs with Gary. (Were you at the head of the class? I cant recall) I'm sure that people like Ntrofish/surreal McCoy/probably BoB are still trying to find a way for Rick/Gary to stay. Many on the MB are still touting the virtues of Rick Smith despite 2-9 and 8 yrs of this regime.

As a "sunshiner", I accepted the likelihood that Kubiak was likely to be fired in 2010 and was not opposed to it. As a matter of a fact, I am on record wanting Jim Harbaugh to take over. In the end, when Kubiak was kept, I was encouraged... and did not have any hint of regret until late December of last year.

Regarding Rick Smith, I expect him to stay. I think McNair believes in him and that he has been giving him more responsibility in preparation for the day Kubiak would be gone. I think Rick Smith has become a good GM but am not convinced of it (acknowledging it is hard to discern who has made what decisions). I will not be upset if he is replaced, unless it is by someone that has proven to be a bad GM (like an Ireland, for instance).

I am defending Rick Smith's record quite a bit... not because I want him to stay, but because I disagree with some of the criticisms against him... particularly the argument that he has put the Texans in cap hell... and that the Texans are not talented. My reaction is not a defense of Smith but come from my belief that the Texans have a very good base of talent and that they are in a healthy cap situation moving foreward... with or without Smith.

dalemurphy
11-30-2013, 07:24 PM
:spit: Schaub was going to be the difference maker?? The Texans would have gotten swallowed by the Patriots in that next game. Shcaub? Lol!

Schaub's play in 2009-11 was very good. And, he played well against the good teams as well. IN 2011, we had the best running game I have seen in the past 8-10 years. As a result, our play action passing game was deadly and we seldom were in 3rd and long situations.

We will never know now. And, I'm not attempting to defend Kubiak. I was just describing how I saw the evolution of the team in 2011-12.

The Third Man
11-30-2013, 07:33 PM
Jon Gruden on ESPN: "If I were a coach, I'd offer a first-round pick to the Redskins to get Kirk Cousins on my team."

No thank you. On a team looking for a QB, I fear Gruden as much as I want to get rid of Kubiak. There's got to be a better option.

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 07:33 PM
:spit: Schaub was going to be the difference maker?? The Texans would have gotten swallowed by the Patriots in that next game. Shcaub? Lol!

LOL is you thinking Schaub would have made no difference and the Texans wouldn't have had a chance. Schaub was playing very well until his injury. It's laughable to think another 100 yds passing, 10 pts and going from 1 to 1 TD to INT to 3 to 1 along with the D and rushing attack wouldn't have made for a competitive game.

No matter how epic his ultimate meltdown was it doesn't mean he always sucked.

Texecutioner
11-30-2013, 07:42 PM
LOL is you thinking Schaub would have made no difference and the Texans wouldn't have had a chance. Schaub was playing very well until his injury. It's laughable to think another 100 yds passing, 10 pts and going from 1 to 1 TD to INT to 3 to 1 along with the D and rushing attack wouldn't have made for a competitive game.

No matter how epic his ultimate meltdown was it doesn't mean he always sucked.

Never said he always sucked. I liked Schaub for quite a few years and defended him here and there quite a bit when it was warranted. But to declare the Texans as a SB team if "we had Schaub" is downright hilarious. Schaub is not a gamer that thrives in big moments. He never has been. He plays well when everything works perfectly and that just doesn't happen in the playoffs. The Patriots on the other hand are the exact opposite and still win tons of games when they don't play well. All they need is a quarter to turn a game around in many cases if they "click" in that one quarter. They've demonstrated a winning regime and culture over the years that easily makes the mere thought of them losing instead of going to the SB because the played the "Schaub led Texans" as a punchline. Playoffs comes down to strategy and big game decisions by coaches as well, and the thought of Kubiak having to compare wits with Billicheck isn't even fair from a football IQ standpoint. And Brady's abilities to lead his team through any situation in comparison to Schaub who had "ZERO" playoff experience at that time is a downright hilarious notion to suggest that they would have beaten the Ravens and gone on to beat a dominant Patriots team that barely lost the SB due to a dropped Wes Welker pass. Hell, at this point I'd call it disrespectful from an objective standpoint.

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 07:51 PM
But to declare the Texans as a SB team if "we had Schaub" is downright hilarious. Schaub is not a gamer that thrives in big moments. He never has been. He plays well when everything works perfectly and that just doesn't happen in the playoffs. The Patriots on the other hand are the exact opposite and still win tons of games when they don't play well. ...

Never said they would have been a SB team but I think dismissing that they would have had a chance (and a much better one with Schaub) is ridiculous.

You can mythologize the Patriots/Brady/Belichick all you want. Fact is they do lose playoff games including to teams we would agree were inferior on the season (but not on that day).

TheMatrix31
11-30-2013, 07:56 PM
The offense was trash in that Ravens game. Schaub could have and would have made the difference between winning and losing that game. The defense forced three-and-out after three-and-out and we had Yates/the offense trotting out there doing jack each and every time.

Don't let Schaub's 2013 failings cloud your judgment. He hadn't even played in any "big moments" (you mean playoffs) at that point in time, how can you even possibly say that he would have blown "the big moment"? He had plenty of big moments in various games throughout his career here so to say he has never come up big in big moments is ridiculous. Last year was his only two playoff games here, and I disagree with your insinuation that the only big moments are playoff moments.

I still don't get why it's such a leap that having your starting QB over your third-string rookie would have been the difference in a 7 point playoff game that was riddled with poor offense and I still don't get why it's such a leap that the Texans could have also gone on and beaten a very vulnerable New England team in the AFCC to make it to the Super Bowl that year. It's one more game. My goodness.

Oh well, no reason to rehash the pain of that game. Two years later, and Schaub's done, Kubiak's done, and we'll have something else to see come 2014.

dalemurphy
11-30-2013, 07:58 PM
Never said he always sucked. I liked Schaub for quite a few years and defended him here and there quite a bit when it was warranted. But to declare the Texans as a SB team if "we had Schaub" is downright hilarious. Schaub is not a gamer that thrives in big moments. He never has been. He plays well when everything works perfectly and that just doesn't happen in the playoffs. The Patriots on the other hand are the exact opposite and still win tons of games when they don't play well. All they need is a quarter to turn a game around in many cases if they "click" in that one quarter. They've demonstrated a winning regime and culture over the years that easily makes the mere thought of them losing instead of going to the SB because the played the "Schaub led Texans" as a punchline. Playoffs comes down to strategy and big game decisions by coaches as well, and the thought of Kubiak having to compare wits with Billicheck isn't even fair from a football IQ standpoint. And Brady's abilities to lead his team through any situation in comparison to Schaub who had "ZERO" playoff experience at that time is a downright hilarious notion to suggest that they would have beaten the Ravens and gone on to beat a dominant Patriots team that barely lost the SB due to a dropped Wes Welker pass. Hell, at this point I'd call it disrespectful from an objective standpoint.

Yet, despite having the best head coach in the NFL and the most clutch QB in the NFL (both with years and years of experience), the Patriots have not won a Superbowl in almost 10 years... That means that lesser coaches and QBs, each of the past 9 years have defeated the Patriots... only after those surprises does history appear differently.

If you recall, Eli Manning was not highly regarded heading into the 2007 playoffs and had little to brag about on his resume.. and, Coughlin nearly had a player revolt earlier in the season and was a likely candidate to get fired after the season until they eeked into the playoffs. So, asserting the Texans were the team to beat in 2011 if not for the Schaub injury has little to do with arguing that Schaub was in Brady's league or that Kubiak would out-coach Belicheck. Barry Switzer's defeated Mike Holmgren's Packers and then Bill Cowher's Steelers, and they did it with a concussed Aikman and a depleted coaching staff (not the stuff that coordinators that Jimmy assembled).

I'm considering not only what they did when Schaub was healthy but also how well the team continued to run the ball with Yates at QB and the way the defense continued to step up and make plays and take over the game... It was impressive and I would have loved to see it play out with a healthy Schaub... that's all I'm saying.

bhsman
11-30-2013, 08:54 PM
Gruden can coach a Super Bowl-caliber team if he either gets:

-A team that breaks the record for the number of veterans with 10+ years of experience apiece; or

-Tony Dungy builds it for him.

acal21
11-30-2013, 09:18 PM
Gruden or someone like gruden is what this team needs... was dungy the GM in tampa?

ppl talk like he took over someone else's team and won the super bowl and really doesn't deserve any credit, are you kidding me?

after tampa won the super bowl they were in immediate rebuild mode and they didn't have brady or manning to keep the team relevant

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 09:26 PM
Gruden can coach a Super Bowl-caliber team if he either gets:

-A team that breaks the record for the number of veterans with 10+ years of experience apiece; or

-Tony Dungy builds it for him.

Did he not build the Oakland team he faced in the SB? Do you remember how we learned about the tuck rule? Fact is Gruden should have made the SB with Oakland the yr before he won one with Tampa. So I think he knows how to build a SB team.

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 09:30 PM
As a "sunshiner", I accepted the likelihood that Kubiak was likely to be fired in 2010 and was not opposed to it. As a matter of a fact, I am on record wanting Jim Harbaugh to take over. In the end, when Kubiak was kept, I was encouraged... and did not have any hint of regret until late December of last year.

Regarding Rick Smith, I expect him to stay. I think McNair believes in him and that he has been giving him more responsibility in preparation for the day Kubiak would be gone. I think Rick Smith has become a good GM but am not convinced of it (acknowledging it is hard to discern who has made what decisions). I will not be upset if he is replaced, unless it is by someone that has proven to be a bad GM (like an Ireland, for instance).

I am defending Rick Smith's record quite a bit... not because I want him to stay, but because I disagree with some of the criticisms against him... particularly the argument that he has put the Texans in cap hell... and that the Texans are not talented. My reaction is not a defense of Smith but come from my belief that the Texans have a very good base of talent and that they are in a healthy cap situation moving foreward... with or without Smith.

The last 2 posts are great posts.

Even though I disagree with you on Rick, I see him as part of the problem and at 2-9 a full house cleaning is in order. Hopefully he gets the Casserly treatment, I doubt it though, BoB owes him 2 yrs of $$$$.

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 09:53 PM
Did he not build the Oakland team he faced in the SB?

Did he or did Al Davis?

JB
11-30-2013, 09:58 PM
did he or did al davis?

hahahahaha!!!

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 09:58 PM
Did he or did Al Davis?

We dont know, but we do know they were losing before he got there and started losing again 2 yrs after he left. So I would guess he probably had quite a bit to do with the Raiders success.

stingray
11-30-2013, 10:03 PM
Matt was playing extremely well the season he got hurt. No doubt the Texans were a different team without him that year. Anyone who says otherwise is just being a schaub hater without using reason.

Tolar's Ghost
11-30-2013, 10:35 PM
Pass on Gruden.

But a maybe for Brian Billick.

Norg
11-30-2013, 10:38 PM
I think im on the Lets Keep Kubes unless we can find a clear cut better coach


if we cant find no one better then Kubes might has well keep him and contrite on getting better football players

PapaL
11-30-2013, 10:47 PM
I'm on the lets get rid of Kubes train. He's lost the locker room and confidence of the fans.
This team is a train wreck and he's the conductor.
Change 2014

Texian
11-30-2013, 11:09 PM
Gruden or someone like gruden is what this team needs... was dungy the GM in tampa?

Rich McKay

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 11:18 PM
Rich McKay

And Bruce Allen, if Shanny gets fired I wouldn't be against bringing in Allen as GM.

Texian
11-30-2013, 11:28 PM
And Bruce Allen, if Shanny gets fired I wouldn't be against bringing in Allen as GM.

McKay was GM for Tampa SB. Allen became GM after McKay went to Atlanta. Allen got fired with Gruden and likely will get fired with Shanahan and you still like the idea of Allen coming to Houston?

steelbtexan
11-30-2013, 11:34 PM
McKay was GM for Tampa SB. Allen became GM after McKay went to Atlanta. Allen got fired with Gruden and likely will get fired with Shanahan and you still like the idea of Allen coming to Houston?

Not so much when you put it that way. I do like a GM that will take chances like the RG3 trade. Although much like Gary, I'm sure Shanny called the shots on that trade.

The question should be whether Gruden would want the Redskins job over the Texans job?

HJam72
11-30-2013, 11:50 PM
Not so much when you put it that way. I do like a GM that will take chances like the RG3 trade. Although much like Gary, I'm sure Shanny called the shots on that trade.

The question should be whether Gruden would want the Redskins job over the Texans job?

Redskins: RGIII

Texans: JJ Watt; Keenum or his choice of draft (I hear he wants Manziel)

infantrycak
11-30-2013, 11:57 PM
We dont know, but we do know they were losing before he got there and started losing again 2 yrs after he left. So I would guess he probably had quite a bit to do with the Raiders success.

I agree we don't know and that Gruden should get some credit for the record improving. The fall off goes to whoever built the team because that was a go for broke construction pulling in all sorts of old players. Drafting Janikowski and Lechler and bringing in Rice to pair with Tim Brown feel like Al Davis moves but who knows.

eriadoc
12-01-2013, 12:45 AM
3) he had some down years in Tampa, but they also were transitioning from the days of all those stars they had to a team without much talent. Tampa hasn't really done anything since moving on from gruden. Maybe had they kept him around they would have been better off.

As those aging players were in decline, the organization was short a few draft picks for trading for Gruden as well. Gruden made some mistakes building the Bucs back up, but he also did some outstanding coaching with less than premium talent in the subsequent years.

Sign me up.

Norg
12-01-2013, 01:13 AM
I say lets give the coach from ALAbama another shot and lets become the ALabama of the NFL ... ALL WE DO IS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS !!!

houstonspartan
12-01-2013, 03:21 AM
He lives in Tampa and needs to be in Seattle prior to the MNF stint. A connecting flight would hardly be practical through Houston in that there are no non-stop flights from here to Seattle. Coming from Tampa, there are several 1-stop flights to Seattle like through JFK or Dallas.

Guess the non-stop flight to Seattle I took was all in my head...

IAH is a massive airport. One of the largest in the world. Everyone has to fly through here at some point.

CloakNNNdagger
12-01-2013, 07:25 AM
Guess the non-stop flight to Seattle I took was all in my head...

IAH is a massive airport. One of the largest in the world. Everyone has to fly through here at some point.

Obviously you have not read my subsequent post.

CloakNNNdagger
12-01-2013, 07:57 AM
A friend has told me that he came across a Facebook post that stated that Dennis Green was seen at IAH yesterday. Sorry, he could not supply me with a link.

TejasTom
12-01-2013, 09:15 AM
A friend has told me that he came across a Facebook post that stated that Dennis Green was seen at IAH yesterday. Sorry, he could not supply me with a link.

Here it is: https://www.facebook.com/groups/43292499937/permalink/10152053850104938/

dalemurphy
12-01-2013, 10:27 AM
A friend has told me that he came across a Facebook post that stated that Dennis Green was seen at IAH yesterday. Sorry, he could not supply me with a link.

Okay, now that rumor isn't funny.

Uncle Rico
12-01-2013, 10:53 AM
"They are who we thought they were-you wanna crown em?! Then crown em!!"

No thanks.

acal21
12-01-2013, 12:32 PM
Rich McKay

i know, thats what i was trying to say..

All the NFL films on their super bowl win the players give dungy his credit but they also say that Gruden came in and gave that team what it needed to get over the hump

dalemurphy
12-01-2013, 01:00 PM
I am considering voting for the Kubiak/Phillips ticket for 2014 after all- signed, hopelessly confused and emotionally exhausted Texan fan at 1:05 pm on Sunday, dec. 1st.

Tolar's Ghost
12-01-2013, 03:32 PM
...Dennis Green was seen at IAH yesterday...

No big deal.

The ghosts of Lombardi, Halas and Walsh have been seen there too.

It's just a great place for people - and ghost - watching.

bckey
12-01-2013, 08:21 PM
A friend has told me that he came across a Facebook post that stated that Dennis Green was seen at IAH yesterday. Sorry, he could not supply me with a link.

Please no. The Texans need to "suck for chuck"

DocBar
12-02-2013, 10:29 PM
The more I think about retread coaches, the more I'm liking giving Baby Shannahan a shot. I think he was a very good OC for us, even though very young. He seems to have a good grasp of the modern game and what it takes to succeed. He also has a pretty good pedigree, even though I lump Mike in with Gary.

I don't want Chucky, Billick(he doesn;t even seem to miss coaching, btw) and a hearty hell no to Green. Of all the retreads, I'd like to see Cowher or Lovie Smith. Get either one of them and lure Baby Shannahan back to Houston to be OC. Give up draft picks if needed. The offense isn't the problem, it's the D bags calling the plays and the OL, for the most part. Either Cowher or Smith would do a much better job of selecting a DC and ST's coach.

I would keep Rick Smith as GM for at least another year, maybe two, and see what shakes out between him and the new coaching regime. That's just me, though.

:fans::fans::fans:

Pantherstang84
12-02-2013, 10:58 PM
As a fan, why would I care how the players feel about the coach? The players have always professed their love for Kubiak. Where has that gotten the team? What goes on behind closed doors on Kirby is their business. All I want or am concerned with is having a winning team.

Winning post right there.

steelbtexan
12-02-2013, 11:20 PM
The more I think about retread coaches, the more I'm liking giving Baby Shannahan a shot. I think he was a very good OC for us, even though very young. He seems to have a good grasp of the modern game and what it takes to succeed. He also has a pretty good pedigree, even though I lump Mike in with Gary.

I don't want Chucky, Billick(he doesn;t even seem to miss coaching, btw) and a hearty hell no to Green. Of all the retreads, I'd like to see Cowher or Lovie Smith. Get either one of them and lure Baby Shannahan back to Houston to be OC. Give up draft picks if needed. The offense isn't the problem, it's the D bags calling the plays and the OL, for the most part. Either Cowher or Smith would do a much better job of selecting a DC and ST's coach.

I would keep Rick Smith as GM for at least another year, maybe two, and see what shakes out between him and the new coaching regime. That's just me, though.

:fans::fans::fans:

What would it take for you to get on board with cleaning house of the enyire outdated Shanny tree, including Rick?

10 losses in a row doesn't seem to be enough to do the trick.

DocBar
12-02-2013, 11:53 PM
What would it take for you to get on board with cleaning house of the enyire outdated Shanny tree, including Rick?

10 losses in a row doesn't seem to be enough to do the trick. I guess a lot more. I don't have an answer to that. Personally, I'm against whole-sale change. That's why I supported keeping Kubiak the last few years. That was a mistake, but that doesn't make my philosophy on whole-sale changes a mistake.

Whole-sale change is what perennial losers do on a regular basis. Yes, I know the length of time given Smithiak, I just don't necessarily agree that Smith is the problem. I also don't follow GM's closely enough to see who's out there that could be better. I seriously doubt the Redskins GM is. How many draft picks did they give up for RGIII? Draft picks are gold in the NFL and giving them up is a serious risk.

Marshall
12-03-2013, 07:28 AM
A friend has told me that he came across a Facebook post that stated that Dennis Green was seen at IAH yesterday. Sorry, he could not supply me with a link.

I've heard reports that a short man in a red suit and fur lining has been spotted at IAH. He kept hollering HO HO HO!

Thorn
12-03-2013, 07:31 AM
I've heard reports that a short man in a red suit and fur lining has been spotted at IAH. He kept hollering HO HO HO.

His deer weren't $hitting all over the airports floors were they?

BullNation4Life
12-03-2013, 09:44 AM
I say lets give the coach from ALAbama another shot and lets become the ALabama of the NFL ... ALL WE DO IS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS !!!

Oh he's coming to Texas, but it's isn't for a NFL job...

Texian
12-03-2013, 10:04 AM
Gruden likely to make another appearance in Houston airport today on his way back to Tampa.

infantrycak
12-03-2013, 10:25 AM
Gruden likely to make another appearance in Houston airport today on his way back to Tampa.

After having used Schaub as an example of how to pick apart the Seattle secondary last night.

Double Barrel
12-03-2013, 10:31 AM
No to NFL retreads. And I even like the "idea" of Bill Cowher, but when I think of how long he's been out of coaching, it makes me question his desire. Is money the only thing that would motivate him to get back on the sidelines? I don't like it, if so. If he still had the passion for it, he would be doing it right now.

A buddy of mine is big on David Shaw, the coach of Standford who took Harbaugh's place. I know it should be in a different thread, but does anyone have any thoughts about him?

HOU-TEX
12-03-2013, 10:41 AM
No to NFL retreads. And I even like the "idea" of Bill Cowher, but when I think of how long he's been out of coaching, it makes me question his desire. Is money the only thing that would motivate him to get back on the sidelines? I don't like it, if so. If he still had the passion for it, he would be doing it right now.

A buddy of mine is big on David Shaw, the coach of Standford who took Harbaugh's place. I know it should be in a different thread, but does anyone have any thoughts about him?

So am I. He seems like a bright offensive mind and has experience in the NFL.

infantrycak
12-03-2013, 10:49 AM
A buddy of mine is big on David Shaw, the coach of Standford who took Harbaugh's place. I know it should be in a different thread, but does anyone have any thoughts about him?

He should be at the top of the candidate list.

Texian
12-03-2013, 10:58 AM
A buddy of mine is big on David Shaw, the coach of Standford who took Harbaugh's place. I know it should be in a different thread, but does anyone have any thoughts about him?

What I really like about Shaw is his teams always seem very well prepared and play well in all 3 phases of the game. Reminds me of Saban in his preparation. His dad was an NFL coach, David coached in the NFL for 9 seasons so he's familiar the NFL. Shaw is #1 on my list, followed by Jimbo Fisher then Darrell Bevell.

drs23
12-03-2013, 12:09 PM
He should be at the top of the candidate list.

My choice as well. Don't know how realistic the chances are but I sure like the idea of him on the Texans sideline.

BetaV1
12-03-2013, 12:52 PM
Gruden? As has been stated, no coach has ever won rings with two separate teams. There's also a reason most coaches lose their jobs to begin with. Heck, I'd rather keep Kubiak than Gruden. I'd rather go .500 with a classy dude than .500 with a loud-mouthed jibber jabber. Honestly it seems that the only reason people remember Gruden is because he has one of the best nicknames of any coach.

Gruden said himself last night on MNF: "You're not going anywhere in this league without a quarterback." As true as that may be, I don't want to hear that from a head coach. Your job is to win in spite of your weaknesses, and if quarterback is your weakness, then you figure out a way to mask that weakness, like Kubiak did for so long.

Ugh. I can't believe I just said that. :smiliepalm:

Whatever. My point stands. This may be a quarterback driven league, but you can still get it done with an average. It seems like Gruden has already forgotten that he himself accomplished that feat. Coughlin was able to squeeze two rings out of Eli. One Harbaugh came close to getting Alex Smith a ring and Colin Kaepernick another. The other Harbaugh got Flacco a ring just last season; have we already forgotten that or do people ignore this because it doesn't fit the mold of what we perceive to be "today's NFL"?

Find me a coach who remembers that they're 21 other players on the field for each play. I don't want any part of a coach that feels he can't win unless he has an Aaron Rodgers or a Drew Brees.

Vinnie
12-03-2013, 02:47 PM
This team has a lot of weaknesses right now, but quarterback isn't one of them. Coaching is the #1 weakness, and that has to change. Starting with Kubiak and Marciano. Wade isn't looking all that great these days either. Way too much talent on this team to be 2-10.

Dread-Head
12-03-2013, 02:56 PM
Hellllllll NO!

Why don't we bring in Tony Dungee first to build a team then fire him so that if we get a Superbowl out of it we can make "Chucky" look like a half assed decent coach. VUGG HIM! Cowher POWER BABY!

DocBar
12-03-2013, 02:57 PM
This team has a lot of weaknesses right now, but quarterback isn't the biggest. Coaching is the #1 weakness, and that has to change. Starting with Kubiak and Marciano. Wade isn't looking all that great these days either. Way too much talent on this team to be 2-10.FIFY! :fingergun:

The Pencil Neck
12-03-2013, 03:01 PM
Here's where I'm at with it.

Kubiak was our best shot. We had a chance the past two years and Schaub got broken by Haynesworth. It took teams a few games into last year to realize it but once they did, they took advantage of it. Prior to Schaub's foot injury, you blitzed him at your own risk. He had a QB rating over 120 against the blitz prior to that; after that, he sucked if you pressured him.

So now we're going to do what all the pink soapers have been wanting for the past 6 years. We're going to chuck everything and start from scratch.

Great. My expectations now are to suck for at least a decade until we hit on the random combination of coaches and players and FO that can become a consistent and serious contender. Bring in Billick, Gruden... doesn't matter, they're going to suck. Bring in the brightest OCs or the hot name from college... doesn't matter, they're probably going to suck.

I'm not saying we should keep Kubiak. I expected him to get fired after the 6-10 season and I'm glad he was able to give us two trips to the post season. But the fates aligned against him and he's toast.

I'll get behind whoever they bring in and I'm going to hope that they make moves that turn this thing around. I think all the pieces are there. But. The Soapers seem to think that having a good football team is as easy as hiring some shmoe off the street and it isn't.

So welcome to being the Cleveland Browns, Oakland Raiders, and Buffalo Bills.

Malloy
12-03-2013, 04:13 PM
Capers capers capers!! :)

Tolar's Ghost
12-03-2013, 04:36 PM
... I even like the "idea" of Bill Cowher, but when I think of how long he's been out of coaching, it makes me question his desire...

Good point.

But....Dick Vermeil was out of coaching for 15 years when he took the Rams' job in 1997. His third season back, they won the Super Bowl.

As for Cowher, the Texans would be crazy not to inquire. But if he comes back, I see it being with the Jets or Giants, so he can stay in his New York pad:

http://observer.com/2012/08/touchdown-former-steelers-coach-bill-cowher-buys-lenox-hill-condo/

Double Barrel
12-03-2013, 05:12 PM
Good point.

But....Dick Vermeil was out of coaching for 15 years when he took the Rams' job in 1997. His third season back, they won the Super Bowl.

As for Cowher, the Texans would be crazy not to inquire. But if he comes back, I see it being with the Jets or Giants, so he can stay in his New York pad:

http://observer.com/2012/08/touchdown-former-steelers-coach-bill-cowher-buys-lenox-hill-condo/

Very good point about Vermeil. And he was a tv analyst in between gigs, iirc. hmmmm.... :hmmm:

There is a lot to like about Cowher. I think he could bring in some great coordinators with his coach network, as well as attract some player talent with just his name/reputation.

What really makes me like him is 108-1-1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points.

TexanBacker93
12-03-2013, 05:45 PM
Has Shaw ever mentioned that he'd be interested in coaching in the NFL again? I think he's got a pretty sweet gig in Palo Alto. It's a much lower stress position than coaching at USC, Alabama, ND, Texas, Michigan, Ohio St., etc. and he's probably making a very good salary. Considering that school I'd think he could be in the 9-2 range each year, making a run at a BSC bowl/playoff spot every few years and he'd keep his job.

He'd be at the top of my candidate list, but I wonder if he's more like a Chris Peterson at Boise St. and happy to be a big fish in a smaller pond.

Double Barrel
12-03-2013, 06:01 PM
Has Shaw ever mentioned that he'd be interested in coaching in the NFL again?

Good question, so I googled it.

From last December (2012):

David Shaw signs long term extension with Stanford, puts an end to NFL rumors

"Since the day I started coaching, this is the job I knew I wanted, and the day is finally there," he said, adding: "I wanted this to be my last head-coaching interview ever."

Source (http://www.ruleoftree.com/2012/12/19/3784980/david-shaw-signs-long-term-extension-with-stanford-sorry-nfl-pac-12)

Ah, well. There is always the slight chance, but it appears he's happy where he's at with a long term contract with the school he's always wanted to coach.

bckey
12-03-2013, 06:21 PM
Hellllllll NO!

Why don't we bring in Tony Dungee first to build a team then fire him so that if we get a Superbowl out of it we can make "Chucky" look like a half assed decent coach. VUGG HIM! Cowher POWER BABY!

Dungy only had to stand on the sidelines and let Peyton do what Peyton does to get his ring. I never liked him as a head coach.

Texian
12-03-2013, 06:30 PM
Good question, so I googled it.

From last December (2012):



Ah, well. There is always the slight chance, but it appears he's happy where he's at with a long term contract with the school he's always wanted to coach.

Times change, things change and Mrs Shaw hasn't had time to contemplate David making $7 million per year in a state with no income tax. :)

infantrycak
12-03-2013, 07:19 PM
Times change, things change and Mrs Shaw hasn't had time to contemplate David making $7 million per year in a state with no income tax. :)

Mrs. Shaw also knows Houston doesn't have an average temp of 70 with no month averaging over 80 degrees and doesn't look like this:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxMEZVm6oZeaojbFNBj4mpBJn1X9gCH 4WZxUY5Nuqq1ezGIS_pgw

DocBar
12-03-2013, 07:24 PM
Mrs. Shaw also knows Houston doesn't have an average temp of 70 with no month averaging over 80 degrees and doesn't look like this:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxMEZVm6oZeaojbFNBj4mpBJn1X9gCH 4WZxUY5Nuqq1ezGIS_pgwAin't that the truth.

WolverineFan
12-03-2013, 07:37 PM
Has Shaw ever mentioned that he'd be interested in coaching in the NFL again? I think he's got a pretty sweet gig in Palo Alto.

I'm not sure, maybe he has. What I do know is that he's a Stanford alum and has turned down NFL jobs before because Stanford is his "dream job". Take that for what you will.

Texian
12-03-2013, 08:08 PM
Mrs. Shaw also knows Houston doesn't have an average temp of 70 with no month averaging over 80 degrees and doesn't look like this:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxMEZVm6oZeaojbFNBj4mpBJn1X9gCH 4WZxUY5Nuqq1ezGIS_pgw

Is this a rerun? I think I have seen/read this before....just sayin

"The Coldest Winter I ever spent was a Summer in San Francisco"....unknown

So you make $2 million now of which you get to take home $800K. The new job you will be making $7 million a year of which you to take home $3.8 million.....hmmmm, I'd say 999 out of 1000 women are already at the Galleria with plans to visit Northern California when they can.

rmartin65
12-03-2013, 09:41 PM
Hellllllll NO!

Why don't we bring in Tony Dungee first to build a team then fire him so that if we get a Superbowl out of it we can make "Chucky" look like a half assed decent coach. VUGG HIM! Cowher POWER BABY!

I am not going to get into this again with you. However, I will tell you that you should learn how to spell Dungy's name if you are going to keep singing his praises.

Tolar's Ghost
12-03-2013, 11:28 PM
At least Gruden has a sense of humor.

He and Tirico cracked up Monday night when Ed Hochuli seemed to be saying a penalty was being retracted because "we were stretching our balls":

http://thasportsjunkies101.wordpress.com/2013/12/03/40551/

infantrycak
12-03-2013, 11:42 PM
So you make $2 million now of which you get to take home $800K. The new job you will be making $7 million a year of which you to take home $3.8 million.....hmmmm, I'd say 999 out of 1000 women are already at the Galleria with plans to visit Northern California when they can.

I am not saying it won't happen and the Texans should definitely make a run at him but people do consider things other than just money.

Shaw is from California. His mom and dad are from California. His parents and siblings all live in the Bay Area. Not sure if his wife is from California but she got her masters at Berkeley. His dad attends lots of meetings and practices with him as an unofficial member of the staff.

Obviously don't know about them in particular but akin to a lot of Texans thinking Californians are liberal whack jobs, a lot of Californians think of Texans as backwards, gun toting, bible thumpers. I kid you not, I had one guy ask me if we had stores in Texas.

Just saying they look a little harder to dig out than most prospective coaches.

houstonspartan
12-04-2013, 01:16 AM
I am not saying it won't happen and the Texans should definitely make a run at him but people do consider things other than just money.

Shaw is from California. His mom and dad are from California. His parents and siblings all live in the Bay Area. Not sure if his wife is from California but she got her masters at Berkeley. His dad attends lots of meetings and practices with him as an unofficial member of the staff.

Obviously don't know about them in particular but akin to a lot of Texans thinking Californians are liberal whack jobs, a lot of Californians think of Texans as backwards, gun toting, bible thumpers. I kid you not, I had one guy ask me if we had stores in Texas.

Just saying they look a little harder to dig out than most prospective coaches.

Co-sign everything you just said. There was another thread where people were bashing California and wondering why people would live there (the hell???) and I had to remind them what people say about people who live in Texas.

When I moved here, someone actually said "Wow, that must be like living on another planet. What are people like there?"

Another person thought Houston was full of dirt roads with tumbleweeds sweeping down them.

Also, as great as Houston is, let's be real: this city is ugly. It'd be hard to compete with Northern California.

Malloy
12-04-2013, 01:22 AM
I am not saying it won't happen and the Texans should definitely make a run at him but people do consider things other than just money.

Shaw is from California. His mom and dad are from California. His parents and siblings all live in the Bay Area. Not sure if his wife is from California but she got her masters at Berkeley. His dad attends lots of meetings and practices with him as an unofficial member of the staff.

Obviously don't know about them in particular but akin to a lot of Texans thinking Californians are liberal whack jobs, a lot of Californians think of Texans as backwards, gun toting, bible thumpers. I kid you not, I had one guy ask me if we had stores in Texas.

Just saying they look a little harder to dig out than most prospective coaches.

They have a point. ;)

Texian
12-04-2013, 08:31 AM
I am not saying it won't happen and the Texans should definitely make a run at him but people do consider things other than just money.

Shaw is from California. His mom and dad are from California. His parents and siblings all live in the Bay Area. Not sure if his wife is from California but she got her masters at Berkeley. His dad attends lots of meetings and practices with him as an unofficial member of the staff.

Obviously don't know about them in particular but akin to a lot of Texans thinking Californians are liberal whack jobs, a lot of Californians think of Texans as backwards, gun toting, bible thumpers. I kid you not, I had one guy ask me if we had stores in Texas.

Just saying they look a little harder to dig out than most prospective coaches.

You get no disagreement from me here......I agree with everything you said. I also don't know of any coach (with the exception of Mora) who didn't have high praise for the institution and his current situation while depositing their check. Mora as HC of the Atlanta Falcons was lamenting on radio show how much he would like to be the HC of the Washington Huskies, the Falcons fired him soon after.

Double Barrel
12-04-2013, 10:10 AM
Times change, things change and Mrs Shaw hasn't had time to contemplate David making $7 million per year in a state with no income tax. :)

I hope you are right, but based on his comments, I'm not holding my breath for it to happen. He's one of the few coaches that I've read about that makes me excited.

And I hate to say it, but I"m still not convinced McNair lets Kubiak go. Seems like a no-brainer, but it's something that I will believe when it happens.

DocBar
12-04-2013, 10:27 AM
Is this a rerun? I think I have seen/read this before....just sayin

"The Coldest Winter I ever spent was a Summer in San Francisco"....unknown

So you make $2 million now of which you get to take home $800K. The new job you will be making $7 million a year of which you to take home $3.8 million.....hmmmm, I'd say 999 out of 1000 women are already at the Galleria with plans to visit Northern California when they can.Ive seen that quote attributed to Mark Twain several times. It is cold there in the summer.

infantrycak
12-04-2013, 10:34 AM
Ive seen that quote attributed to Mark Twain several times. It is cold there in the summer.

If you consider 55 degrees cold as the low I guess.

FYI - the Bay Area has micro climates and a few miles away makes a big difference. This discussion illustrates it. Palo Alto average highs are over 10 degrees warmer during the summer than San Francisco.

DocBar
12-04-2013, 12:36 PM
If you consider 55 degrees cold as the low I guess.

FYI - the Bay Area has micro climates and a few miles away makes a big difference. This discussion illustrates it. Palo Alto average highs are over 10 degrees warmer during the summer than San Francisco.
I did the 4th of July in 2008 at the pier in Frisco. The high was 61. I had to buy jackets and sweatshirts for the family. I was working in Antioch and it was 104 when we left the apartment that day. Big temp differences in the Bay Area.

Texian
12-04-2013, 12:44 PM
I hope you are right, but based on his comments, I'm not holding my breath for it to happen. He's one of the few coaches that I've read about that makes me excited.

And I hate to say it, but I"m still not convinced McNair lets Kubiak go. Seems like a no-brainer, but it's something that I will believe when it happens.

Part of me agrees. I can certainly see a situation where Kubiak stays and Rick Smith goes. For this to happen Kubiak would have to give up final say an 53 man roster and report to a GM. This would fit with Ian Rapport story. In a way it makes more sense than Kubiak OUT and Smith IN. I'm still holding out hope for an Adios Amigos to Smubiak.

Ive seen that quote attributed to Mark Twain several times. It is cold there in the summer.

Myth, Twain never said it but almost always gets credit. I have been all over Northern California and have experienced bone chilling cold just about everywhere I have been but for the most part a sweater or jacket are just right. That said Carmel/Monterrey will always be a special place for me on Planet Earth. And if you have never been to Muir Woods you should put it on your bucket list.

TD
12-04-2013, 12:53 PM
Times change, things change and Mrs Shaw hasn't had time to contemplate David making $7 million per year in a state with no income tax. :)

While it does make a difference, the income tax thing is a bit overstated. Players have to pay pro rata taxes in each state they play a game in.

infantrycak
12-04-2013, 12:59 PM
While it does make a difference, the income tax thing is a bit overstated. Players have to pay pro rata taxes in each state they play a game in.

Isn't the state income tax also a deduction from the federal income tax?

TD
12-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Isn't the state income tax also a deduction from the federal income tax?

Yes and no. Up until this year the answer was 100% yes. Part of the new tax increases was to limit itemized deductions by the lesser of 3% of any AGI over $300k (married) or 80% of the deduction.

So a guy making $7M would lose up to $201k of his itemized deductions to a floor of 20% deductible.

Not the forum for it, but this is part of the tax increase most people don't think about...it is much, much higher than a simple bump to 35%.

The secret is to pay a huge ass signing bonus in Texas and pay squat for a salary which is all you pay taxes on to states when on the road. Of course owners don't really care for that.

noxiousdog
12-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Gruden after 6 years with Tampa was a .500 coach after being handed a Super Bowl team.


He had 5 division championships in 11 years. His best QB during that time was Rich Gannon.

In four years at Oakland he was 38-26
In the four years prior, Oakland was 28-36
In the four years after, 24-40.

In seven years at Tampa, he was 57-55.
In seven years prior, Tampa was 61-51.
Since they are 27-49.

Regarding being handed a Super Bowl team, unless you have an all-time great team or QB, falling off after a Super Bowl is the norm (Tomlin? Caldwell? Wisenhunt? Holmgren?), and he clearly was handed a team with aging players and a mediocre QB, and still managed to be respectable.

steelbtexan
12-04-2013, 04:31 PM
They have a point. ;)

And proud of it if Californians are Liberal/overtaxed/non secure/atheists.

I really could care what people in Cali think about Texans. Cali needs to fall into the ocean. We as a society would be better off. IMHO

Back to football, Gruden would be a massive upgrade to Gary when it comes to accountability. I dont want Jon Gruden as HC though.

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2013, 04:38 PM
If you consider 55 degrees cold as the low I guess.

FYI - the Bay Area has micro climates and a few miles away makes a big difference. This discussion illustrates it. Palo Alto average highs are over 10 degrees warmer during the summer than San Francisco.

I've been around Monterey Bay and loved it . John Steinbeck's Cannery Row is now an aquarium and shops but it's nice . Pfeiffer Beach State park in Big Sur is where they take pictures for calendars . It's not LA or San Fran but not crowded and pristine .

Mr. White
12-10-2013, 08:03 AM
Bump.

Lance Zierlein said this morning that Gruden was seen at Reliant on Friday but nobody has any idea about the nature of the visit.

Take that FWIW.

Runner
12-10-2013, 08:33 AM
Bump.

Lance Zierlein said this morning that Gruden was seen at Reliant on Friday but nobody has any idea about the nature of the visit.

Take that FWIW.

A qualified head coaching candidate visits a team with an opening for a head coach? That is weird - it isn't surprising no one has any idea about the nature of the visit. I wonder what it could be about...

:)

PapaL
12-10-2013, 08:42 AM
A qualified head coaching candidate visits a team with an opening for a head coach? That is weird - it isn't surprising no one has any idea about the nature of the visit. I wonder what it could be about...

:)

McClain has openly said Texans are NOT interested in Gruden so yeah it is kind of interesting; LINK (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/12/texans-will-not-pursue-shanahan-but-interested-in-smith-shaw-whisenhunt/)

he Texans will not try to hire ESPN analyst Jon Gruden and they won’t be pursuing Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan, even if he does get fired.

Not that McNugget is know all but still.

eriadoc
12-10-2013, 09:26 AM
McClain has openly said Texans are NOT interested in Gruden so yeah it is kind of interesting;

If McClain said the Texans are not interested, then they're definitely interested.

Runner
12-10-2013, 09:29 AM
McClain has openly said Texans are NOT interested in Gruden so yeah it is kind of interesting; LINK (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/12/texans-will-not-pursue-shanahan-but-interested-in-smith-shaw-whisenhunt/)



Not that McNugget is know all but still.

Yeah, I know. However, McClain has been flat out wrong about things he has stated as facts many times before. I think it is more likely that McClain is wrong than that Gruden was here interviewing the Texans for an ESPN bit.

In fact given the secrecy in which NFL teams operate, at the time I thought McClain's original dismissal of Gruden as a candidate was nothing more than misdirection by the Texans.

Mr. White
12-10-2013, 09:35 AM
A qualified head coaching candidate visits a team with an opening for a head coach? That is weird - it isn't surprising no one has any idea about the nature of the visit. I wonder what it could be about...

:)

The interesting thing to me here is that this thread was started 1 week ago, so if the vBulletin software is to be believed, then that was Tuesday. Twitter's blocked at work, so I can't click the link and see the date on the airport tweet.

He was here at least three days if these reports are accurate.

Was McNair's jet not available? "Consulting" with Gruden might be the first step.


Just spitballing here, but I think that private jets can be tracked by the public on flightaware or netjets. I don't know how they can be tracked, but other boards do it. Pretty sure you can't track people on commercial flights.

I've got Nick Saban's plane open in another window right now courtesy of Shaggybevo. He went from Kentucky yesterday to Austin. He'll be going back to Birmingham today.

I'm sure McNair's jet has a number that's trackable. I just don't know how to find it.

YeaLikeRightNow
12-10-2013, 09:45 AM
The interesting thing to me here is that this thread was started 1 week ago, so if the vBulletin software is to be believed, then that was Tuesday. Twitter's blocked at work, so I can't click the link and see the date on the airport tweet.

He was here at least three days if these reports are accurate.



Just spitballing here, but I think that private jets can be tracked by the public on flightaware or netjets. I don't know how they can be tracked, but other boards do it. Pretty sure you can't track people on commercial flights.

I've got Nick Saban's plane open in another window right now courtesy of Shaggybevo. He went from Kentucky yesterday to Austin. He'll be going back to Birmingham today.

I'm sure McNair's jet has a number that's trackable. I just don't know how to find it.




My motocross racing buddy is Bob McNair's private pilot. If you guys really want to know what their schedule is, I could find out if he's willing to share that info...but it might cost me all of next seasons' homegame freebies!

Uncle Rico
12-10-2013, 09:58 AM
So both sides are declining interest. Makes you wonder, but LZ is a known drama queen whowill do or say anything for ratings. Any national writer corroborating the story?

Mr. White
12-10-2013, 10:04 AM
So both sides are declining interest. Makes you wonder, but LZ is a known drama queen whowill do or say anything for ratings. Any national writer corroborating the story?

Dunno, but it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to infer that he knows people at Reliant based on the nature of his job.

Ktexan68
12-10-2013, 10:05 AM
So both sides are declining interest. Makes you wonder, but LZ is a known drama queen whowill do or say anything for ratings. Any national writer corroborating the story?

Really? I couldn't disagree with this more strongly.

HOU-TEX
12-10-2013, 10:11 AM
Maybe Gruden was contacted by this guy concerning the Texans job?

A Los Angeles man who placed prank calls about job vacancies for prominent professional coaches was arrested Monday police said.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000296109/article/hollywood-man-arrested-for-prank-calls-to-coaches

TexanPulse
12-10-2013, 10:14 AM
The interesting thing to me here is that this thread was started 1 week ago, so if the vBulletin software is to be believed, then that was Tuesday. Twitter's blocked at work, so I can't click the link and see the date on the airport tweet.

He was here at least three days if these reports are accurate.



Just spitballing here, but I think that private jets can be tracked by the public on flightaware or netjets. I don't know how they can be tracked, but other boards do it. Pretty sure you can't track people on commercial flights.

I've got Nick Saban's plane open in another window right now courtesy of Shaggybevo. He went from Kentucky yesterday to Austin. He'll be going back to Birmingham today.

I'm sure McNair's jet has a number that's trackable. I just don't know how to find it.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/11/ja2abuju.jpg

Btw, his tail number appears to be blocked.

Mr. White
12-10-2013, 10:33 AM
Btw, his tail number appears to be blocked.

Yeah just found it and looked it up myself. Thought I was onto something.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N604HT

N604HT - RCM MANAGEMENT SERVICES GP INC (FOREST CITY NC)
This aircraft (N604HT) is not available for public tracking per request from the owner/operator.

Thorn
12-10-2013, 10:50 AM
I do not see why yall continue to quote MacFat McClain. The guy is a numbskull. I put no credence whatsoever into anything that man says.

michaelm
12-10-2013, 10:53 AM
I do not see why yall continue to quote Thorn. The guy is a numbskull. I put no credence whatsoever into anything that man says.

FIFY


:kitten:

Thorn
12-10-2013, 10:54 AM
FIFY


:kitten:

The why did you quote me?

Playoffs
12-10-2013, 10:54 AM
Let it go, ChuckyFans. Turn it loose.

Uncle Rico
12-10-2013, 10:55 AM
Dunno, but it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to infer that he knows people at Reliant based on the nature of his job.

A security guard or beer vendor maybe. Highly doubt a FO guy is in a rush to leak information to a loud mouth, flem hacking nit.

Uncle Rico
12-10-2013, 10:56 AM
Really? I couldn't disagree with this more strongly.

Lance, is that you? Lol.

Mr. White
12-10-2013, 11:27 AM
A security guard or beer vendor maybe. Highly doubt a FO guy is in a rush to leak information to a loud mouth, flem hacking nit.

Here's (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/albert-haynesworth-will-be-a-washington-redskin/) a story where he scooped the national media. There's another link in the article where he had done it before if you're interested.

Here's (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/04/peppers-to-redskins-rumors-go-to-full-boil/) the national media saying as much.

Like I said earlier up the thread...take it for what it's worth. Apparently you don't think it's worth much because you don't like the guy that said it.

Runner
12-10-2013, 11:33 AM
Here's (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/albert-haynesworth-will-be-a-washington-redskin/) a story where he scooped the national media. There's another link in the article where he had done it before if you're interested.

Here's (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/04/peppers-to-redskins-rumors-go-to-full-boil/) the national media saying as much.

Like I said earlier up the thread...take it for what it's worth. Apparently you don't think it's worth much because you don't like the guy that said it.

Speaking for myself, I didn't say McClain was never right. I said he was often wrong. These two statements obviously have completely different meanings.

Mr. White
12-10-2013, 11:37 AM
Speaking for myself, I didn't say McClain was never right. I said he was often wrong. These two statements obviously have completely different meanings.

That was in response to Rico about Zierlein. We all know McClain's FOS. He'll say whatever the organization tells him to say.

Runner
12-10-2013, 11:39 AM
That was in response to Rico about Zierlein. We all know McClain's FOS. He'll say whatever the organization tells him to say.

Oops.

infantrycak
12-10-2013, 11:44 AM
Here's (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/albert-haynesworth-will-be-a-washington-redskin/) a story where he scooped the national media. There's another link in the article where he had done it before if you're interested.

Here's (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/04/peppers-to-redskins-rumors-go-to-full-boil/) the national media saying as much.

Like I said earlier up the thread...take it for what it's worth. Apparently you don't think it's worth much because you don't like the guy that said it.

How many years did Peppers play in Washington?

Say Watt
12-10-2013, 11:45 AM
Mrs. Shaw also knows Houston doesn't have an average temp of 70 with no month averaging over 80 degrees and doesn't look like this:



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxMEZVm6oZeaojbFNBj4mpBJn1X9gCH 4WZxUY5Nuqq1ezGIS_pgw


With the extra money, Mr and Mrs Shaw can still own/rent a home in a place with an average temp of 70 with no month averaging over 80 degrees anytime they want. Not really a tough decision and is proven by just how many athletes make Texas, especially Houston, their home.

Mr. White
12-10-2013, 11:53 AM
How many years did Peppers play in Washington?

I should have known how unlikely it would be for anyone to actually click the link and read it. I'll be surprised if anyone actually reads the following quote from the article.

Our pal Lance Zierlein of KGOW in Houston has reported, via Twitter, that the Redskins will come “charging hard” after Peppers and that he expects a deal to be done by tomorrow. Last year, Zierlein reported that the Redskins would land defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth days before it happened.

This has been fun but I'm getting too old to carry another guy's water for a long distance. Just illustrating a point that the likability of a source of information has no bearing on the accuracy of said information.

I'm sure you see it all the time in the NSZ.

mussop
12-10-2013, 11:53 AM
Really? I couldn't disagree with this more strongly.

I couldn't either. He's one of the better media guys in this town.

infantrycak
12-10-2013, 11:54 AM
With the extra money, Mr and Mrs Shaw can still own/rent a home in a place with an average temp of 70 with no month averaging over 80 degrees anytime they want. Not really a tough decision and is proven by just how many athletes make Texas, especially Houston, their home.

Guess you missed the part about the whole family being from CA, them all living in the Bay Area and his dad being an unofficial member of the staff who regularly attends coaches meetings and practices.

Hey, I hope it happens but this hill is much steeper than digging someone from Oklahoma out of a job in New York.

I should have known how unlikely it would be for anyone to actually click the link and read it. I'll be surprised if anyone actually reads the following quote from the article.

This has been fun but I'm getting too old to carry another guy's water for a long distance. Just illustrating a point that the likability of a source of information has no bearing on the accuracy of said information.

I'm sure you see it all the time in the NSZ.

I don't care about his likability and I read both articles. You aren't carrying anyone's water including your own. Being correct one time on an almost universally speculated most likely destination does bupkiss to prove insider information. He said the same thing about Peppers and was wrong. It's more likely he is throwing darts than he has a great network.

TheIronDuke
12-10-2013, 12:28 PM
A security guard or beer vendor maybe. Highly doubt a FO guy is in a rush to leak information to a loud mouth, flem hacking nit.

LZ's dumps contain more football knowledge than you'll ever have.

Uncle Rico
12-10-2013, 01:30 PM
Awwww look how sweet! Let's defend the talking head who's been fired from every major radio station in town. That's funny.

Only reason his "dumps" have any football "knowledge" is because his daddy rubbed it there while he was wiping his ass. His pops is a known football man.

790 morning show was better with matt and Adam and any show is better without LZ cutting everybody off and hacking up furballs every 5 minutes.

He almost ruined CPs show too with his meaningless drivel.

Dread-Head
12-10-2013, 02:26 PM
I am not going to get into this again with you. However, I will tell you that you should learn how to spell Dungy's name if you are going to keep singing his praises.

Cool, because my opinion on this "caretaker coach" is carved in muff-huggin' grannite. FUK-a-Chuckie....

Big Lou
12-10-2013, 03:05 PM
My motocross racing buddy is Bob McNair's private pilot. If you guys really want to know what their schedule is, I could find out if he's willing to share that info...but it might cost me all of next seasons' homegame freebies!

You'd think he'd have the hook up on Texans goodies being Bob's pilot.......

michaelm
12-10-2013, 03:07 PM
The why did you quote me?

I never claimed to be a smart man!

YeaLikeRightNow
12-10-2013, 03:17 PM
Gruden can coach a Super Bowl-caliber team if he either gets:

-A team that breaks the record for the number of veterans with 10+ years of experience apiece; or

-Tony Dungy builds it for him.


Under John Gruden, the Raiders posted consecutive 8–8 seasons in 1998 and 1999, and leapt out of last place in the AFC West. After uniting with journeyman quarterback Rich Gannon, Gruden led the Raiders to the top of the AFC West and made the playoffs two straight seasons. Oakland finished 12–4 in the 2000 season, the team's most successful in a decade, and its first division title since 1990, reaching the AFC Championship, where they lost 16–3 to the eventual Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens.


Immediately after arriving in Tampa, Gruden significantly retooled the offense with the addition of numerous free agents. His determination to fix the under-performing offense so often maligned during Dungy's tenure inspired Tampa's defense to another #1 ranking, which helped the team to a 12–4 season. Both the offense and defense hit their stride in the playoffs; the Buccaneers posted a playoff per-game point differential of 23 points per game in victory, tied with the 1992 Dallas Cowboys for the highest average playoff margin of victory by a Super Bowl winner in the free agency era.


Fans were especially satisfied with a victory in the NFC Championship game against the Philadelphia Eagles, the team that had defeated Tampa Bay in the Wild Card round two years running by the combined score of 52-12, and Gruden was especially satisfied with a dominant win over his old team, the Raiders, in Super Bowl XXXVII.


I'd feel very confident in a Texans rebound with John Gruden!

noxiousdog
12-10-2013, 03:28 PM
Awwww look how sweet! Let's defend the talking head who's been fired from every major radio station in town. That's funny.


He wasn't fired from 610 or 1560. He left on his own volition and had a job waiting.

The Pencil Neck
12-10-2013, 03:37 PM
Under John Gruden, the Raiders posted consecutive 8–8 seasons in 1998 and 1999, and leapt out of last place in the AFC West. After uniting with journeyman quarterback Rich Gannon, Gruden led the Raiders to the top of the AFC West and made the playoffs two straight seasons. Oakland finished 12–4 in the 2000 season, the team's most successful in a decade, and its first division title since 1990, reaching the AFC Championship, where they lost 16–3 to the eventual Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens.


Immediately after arriving in Tampa, Gruden significantly retooled the offense with the addition of numerous free agents. His determination to fix the under-performing offense so often maligned during Dungy's tenure inspired Tampa's defense to another #1 ranking, which helped the team to a 12–4 season. Both the offense and defense hit their stride in the playoffs; the Buccaneers posted a playoff per-game point differential of 23 points per game in victory, tied with the 1992 Dallas Cowboys for the highest average playoff margin of victory by a Super Bowl winner in the free agency era.


Fans were especially satisfied with a victory in the NFC Championship game against the Philadelphia Eagles, the team that had defeated Tampa Bay in the Wild Card round two years running by the combined score of 52-12, and Gruden was especially satisfied with a dominant win over his old team, the Raiders, in Super Bowl XXXVII.


I'd feel very confident in a Texans rebound with John Gruden!

But what happened AFTER that?

7-9
5-11
11-5
4-12
9-7
9-7

He made it to the playoffs twice after that, getting bounced in the WC round each time. He went through a zillion different QBs. Dungy's defense faded and the Buccs regressed.

I'm not very confident with Gruden. He did his best with other people's guys. With the Raiders, all those players were about Al Davis. With the Buccs, it was all about Tony Dungy's defense. I'm not sure Gruden can build something or keep something built.

Hervoyel
12-10-2013, 04:19 PM
But what happened AFTER that?

7-9
5-11
11-5
4-12
9-7
9-7

He made it to the playoffs twice after that, getting bounced in the WC round each time. He went through a zillion different QBs. Dungy's defense faded and the Buccs regressed.

I'm not very confident with Gruden. He did his best with other people's guys. With the Raiders, all those players were about Al Davis. With the Buccs, it was all about Tony Dungy's defense. I'm not sure Gruden can build something or keep something built.

Who cares who's guys he did his best with? I don't think anyone is going to give him a blank check and a mandate to single handedly go out and find talent. When he had good talent he produced and when the talent level of the Buccaneers declined his results also declined. The Buc's lost a pair of 1's and a pair of 2's getting him so maybe a dearth of first day draft picks contributed to that decline in talent? The point is when he had talented players to work with he got results with those players. How in the world can that be a knock on a HC? He wasn't HC & GM.

The Raiders didn't do too well once Al Davis lost his ability to find talent either and they didn't even have Jon Gruden to blame so go figure.

I'm just saying that I think he's been successful and I would not have a problem with him being hired. I'm also saying that the "But it was with other people's guys" argument is total rubbish.

The Pencil Neck
12-10-2013, 04:34 PM
I'm just saying that I think he's been successful and I would not have a problem with him being hired. I'm also saying that the "But it was with other people's guys" argument is total rubbish.

I'm just saying that I don't think he's all that good of a coach. Part of being a good coach is evaluating talent and working with the GM to get the best guys to run his system. He's OK but I don't want him as my head coach. If we hire him, I'll get behind him and root for him because I root for my team to be successful. And I'll probably end up defending him.

But.

I don't think he's the answer.

burro
12-10-2013, 05:05 PM
But what happened AFTER that?

7-9
5-11
11-5
4-12
9-7
9-7

He made it to the playoffs twice after that, getting bounced in the WC round each time. He went through a zillion different QBs. Dungy's defense faded and the Buccs regressed.

I'm not very confident with Gruden. He did his best with other people's guys. With the Raiders, all those players were about Al Davis. With the Buccs, it was all about Tony Dungy's defense. I'm not sure Gruden can build something or keep something built.

In fairness to Gruden, the team he beat in the SB was his own under the caretakership of Bill Callahan who, according to Tim Brown, sabotaged the game plan at the last minute. So, he can build a team...but he's erratic. It would be a risky investment.

YeaLikeRightNow
12-10-2013, 05:25 PM
I'm just saying that I don't think he's all that good of a coach. Part of being a good coach is evaluating talent and working with the GM to get the best guys to run his system. He's OK but I don't want him as my head coach. If we hire him, I'll get behind him and root for him because I root for my team to be successful. And I'll probably end up defending him.

But.

I don't think he's the answer.


I don't know if Gruden is the answer either The Pencil Neck, but he showed courage and confidence before taking the laughingstock of the NFL to the Superbowl...and then won it!

I honestly believe the team needs a man of emotion on the sideline, and Bill Cowher and John Gruden are the first that come to mind. John is relatively young compared to most, and that is a favorable asset to me...heck, Wade will be 70 in three years. Mike Holmgren is another man I would consider as coach, but haven't heard much from him. If we had Alex Gibbs and Kyle Shanahan back to assist Wade Phillips...now that might be a helluva team!

The Pencil Neck
12-10-2013, 05:28 PM
I don't know if Gruden is the answer either The Pencil Neck, but he showed courage and confidence before taking the laughingstock of the NFL to the Superbowl...and then won it!


The Buccaneers he took to the SB were NOT the laughingstock of the NFL.

The Buccs who won that SB were a team that had been to the playoffs 4 of the previous 5 years, a team whose defense had been ranked in the top 10 that entire time, and he did it without significantly improving the offense.

infantrycak
12-10-2013, 05:29 PM
I don't know if Gruden is the answer either The Pencil Neck, but he showed courage and confidence before taking the laughingstock of the NFL to the Superbowl...and then won it!

Are you trying to call the Dungy Bucs the laughingstock of the NFL? They had been in the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years before he got there with no losing seasons.

ObsiWan
12-10-2013, 07:26 PM
Bump.

Lance Zierlein said this morning that Gruden was seen at Reliant on Friday but nobody has any idea about the nature of the visit.

Take that FWIW.

Sorry but I don't trust much that Zierlein says unless it's corroborated by another source.

That's just me.

Texan_Bill
12-10-2013, 07:37 PM
Didn't Gruden just re-up with ESPN??

ObsiWan
12-10-2013, 07:54 PM
I don't know if Gruden is the answer either The Pencil Neck, but he showed courage and confidence before taking the laughingstock of the NFL to the Superbowl...and then won it!

I honestly believe the team needs a man of emotion on the sideline, and Bill Cowher and John Gruden are the first that come to mind. John is relatively young compared to most, and that is a favorable asset to me...heck, Wade will be 70 in three years. Mike Holmgren is another man I would consider as coach, but haven't heard much from him. If we had Alex Gibbs and Kyle Shanahan back to assist Wade Phillips...now that might be a helluva team!

so you have a man-love thing for guys that spit when they talk...??

Seriously though, what courage did it take to take over a team that had been to the playoffs four of the previous five years and beat the team that fired you and that you knew inside and out?
Courage??
:mcnugget:
Maybe it was his courage to collect every free agent QB and still not be able to find one that could lead his team back to the Super Bowl.

And I swear I don't know where all the Cowher man-love comes from. Two Super Bowl appearances in 15 seasons while in a division with the Bengals, the Oilers, the Browns, and later the expansion Jags. In any given season during his tenure - 1992 thru 2006 - one or two of those teams were patsies; as in gimmie wins. Let's not forget he inherited a fairly solid team - with Hall of Fame players on it - from Chuck Knoll.

Texan_Bill
12-10-2013, 08:04 PM
so you have a man-love thing for guys that spit when they talk...??

Seriously though, what courage did it take to take over a team that had been to the playoffs four of the previous five years and beat the team that fired you and that you knew inside and out?
Courage??
:mcnugget:
Maybe it was his courage to collect every free agent QB and still not be able to find one that could lead his team back to the Super Bowl.

And I swear I don't know where all the Cowher man-love comes from. Two Super Bowl appearances in 15 seasons while in a division with the Bengals, the Oilers, the Browns, and later the expansion Jags. In any given season during his tenure - 1992 thru 2006 - one or two of those teams were patsies; as in gimmie wins. Let's not forget he inherited a fairly solid team - with Hall of Fame players on it - from Chuck Knoll.

In all fairness, AND I AM NOT A GRUDEN HONK, if you remember correctly Gruden's Super Bowl win was against the Raiders which, IIRC, he helped to put together, no?

Again, I give a damn about the rat's ass when it comes to Gruden.

*EDIT*
FTR, I was never a Cowher honk either.

YeaLikeRightNow
12-11-2013, 05:41 AM
In all fairness, AND I AM NOT A GRUDEN HONK, if you remember correctly Gruden's Super Bowl win was against the Raiders which, IIRC, he helped to put together, no?

Again, I give a damn about the rat's ass when it comes to Gruden.

*EDIT*
FTR, I was never a Cowher honk either.

Let me rephrase that:

John Gruden took the Bucs (who were once the laughingstock of the NFL, to the Superbowl and won it.) There, I feel much better now.

Since he had minimal influence with that Bucs Superbowl team, which most everyone says he inherited the players from Tony D., then who took the team to the Superbowl that year? Tony D was not there, but since Gruden inherited the team, he was just a figurehead in the entire scenario, and did not have much of an effect on playcalling and roster moves to get them there....Yes, it was the Ghost of Tony D that did that?

I personally do not like John Gruden, I dont like the relationship bonds he over-developed with his quarterbacks. I really don't like Cowher either, and yes...he wasn't all that overly successful of a coach in terms of Superbowl trips, but he was a great motivator, and was not a panty-waist of a coach.

It's not who "I" or "We" like as the next Texans coach...it's who is the best coach for a Texans team that is mentally drained and now, the new laughingstock of the NFL.

Dread-Head
12-11-2013, 10:42 AM
Are you trying to call the Dungy Bucs the laughingstock of the NFL? They had been in the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years before he got there with no losing seasons.

Amazingly when I point that out, I'm told that Dungy was mediocre and that Chucky was the GENIUS who got them over the hump. with the same personell but couldn't get them back to the playoffs after that...

Dread-Head
12-11-2013, 10:43 AM
Let me rephrase that:

John Gruden took the Bucs (who were once the laughingstock of the NFL, to the Superbowl and won it.) There, I feel much better now.

Since he had minimal influence with that Bucs Superbowl team, which most everyone says he inherited the players from Tony D., then who took the team to the Superbowl that year? Tony D was not there, but since Gruden inherited the team, he was just a figurehead in the entire scenario, and did not have much of an effect on playcalling and roster moves to get them there....Yes, it was the Ghost of Tony D that did that?

I personally do not like John Gruden, I dont like the relationship bonds he over-developed with his quarterbacks. I really don't like Cowher either, and yes...he wasn't all that overly successful of a coach in terms of Superbowl trips, but he was a great motivator, and was not a panty-waist of a coach.

It's not who "I" or "We" like as the next Texans coach...it's who is the best coach for a Texans team that is mentally drained and now, the new laughingstock of the NFL.


:thinking: By your logic Barry Switzer was a genius because he was the head coach of the Cowboys last time THEY won a Superbowl.

Dread-Head
12-11-2013, 10:44 AM
In all fairness, AND I AM NOT A GRUDEN HONK, if you remember correctly Gruden's Super Bowl win was against the Raiders which, IIRC, he helped to put together, no?

Again, I give a damn about the rat's ass when it comes to Gruden.

*EDIT*
FTR, I was never a Cowher honk either.


Scary when Bill's right isn't it?

rmartin65
12-11-2013, 01:59 PM
Amazingly when I point that out, I'm told that Dungy was mediocre and that Chucky was the GENIUS who got them over the hump. with the same personell but couldn't get them back to the playoffs after that...

Dread, we have been over this. Gruden did indeed get the Bucs to the playoffs again. Stop spreading lies because you can't handle the fact that Gruden won with the team that Dungy was unable to. He faced his old team, so the argument that he could only win with other people's players is bogus.

But hey, its the internet. Spread the same lies over and over again, and it will become popular belief.

EDIT- Look what has happened in TB since Gruden left:
Raheem Morris was the next coach- went 3-13, 10-6, 4-12. Looks worse than Chucky.
Then Greg Schiano- 7-9, so far this season 4-9. Again, looks worse than Chucky.

Maybe Chucky was not the problem?

mussop
12-13-2013, 09:50 AM
Awwww look how sweet! Let's defend the talking head who's been fired from every major radio station in town. That's funny.

Only reason his "dumps" have any football "knowledge" is because his daddy rubbed it there while he was wiping his ass. His pops is a known football man.

790 morning show was better with matt and Adam and any show is better without LZ cutting everybody off and hacking up furballs every 5 minutes.

He almost ruined CPs show too with his meaningless drivel.

And now it's obvious. (In a talking to a little baby voice) did somebody get their wittle feelings hurt when they were cut off on a call in?? Poor wittle baby. Here does this make you feel better? :clown:

Uncle Rico
12-13-2013, 10:02 AM
And now it's obvious. (In a talking to a little baby voice) did somebody get their wittle feelings hurt when they were cut off on a call in?? Poor wittle baby. Here does this make you feel better? :clown:

I could care less about callers, dumb sonsabitches wait hours just to spew ridiculous crap, they can get all that and then some right here without a wait.

Not sure what the infatuation is with the guy he is a horrible talk show host, how many times has he been bounced around just at that station alone? "Trying to find room for him". Poor Adam Clanton and his fake laughs to cover for his cohost.

John Lopez and that other clown are even worse.

I'm back to Mike and Mike and the lack of local coverage until Greg and ND come on, Matt Thomas is great and the king of Houston sports talk Charlie Palillo.

You and LZ homies or something? Lol.

Mr. White
12-13-2013, 10:15 AM
You and LZ homies or something? Lol.

People can be funny about media personalities.

If you really want to stir something up, go start a thread about Rush Limbaugh or Fox News in the NSZ.

HOU-TEX
12-13-2013, 10:41 AM
I could care less about callers, dumb sonsabitches wait hours just to spew ridiculous crap, they can get all that and then some right here without a wait.

Not sure what the infatuation is with the guy he is a horrible talk show host, how many times has he been bounced around just at that station alone? "Trying to find room for him". Poor Adam Clanton and his fake laughs to cover for his cohost.

John Lopez and that other clown are even worse.

I'm back to Mike and Mike and the lack of local coverage until Greg and ND come on, Matt Thomas is great and the king of Houston sports talk Charlie Palillo.
You and LZ homies or something? Lol.

lol

Double Barrel
12-13-2013, 11:25 AM
Dread, we have been over this. Gruden did indeed get the Bucs to the playoffs again. Stop spreading lies because you can't handle the fact that Gruden won with the team that Dungy was unable to. He faced his old team, so the argument that he could only win with other people's players is bogus.

But hey, its the internet. Spread the same lies over and over again, and it will become popular belief.

EDIT- Look what has happened in TB since Gruden left:
Raheem Morris was the next coach- went 3-13, 10-6, 4-12. Looks worse than Chucky.
Then Greg Schiano- 7-9, so far this season 4-9. Again, looks worse than Chucky.

Maybe Chucky was not the problem?

Warren Sapp used to be one of Gruden's biggest critics after he left Tampa.

Later, as objectivity set in with the passage of time, he openly said his criticism was more personal than honest evaluation.

Then recently, during his HoF induction interviews, he said that he loved Dungy and what the coach had done for Tampa. But, the reality is that he never held the offensive unit accountable. He believed that Dungy could not win a championship in Tampa because of this deficiency. He said they won a championship because Gruden came in and left the defense alone and overhauled the offense. Sapp said the ONLY reason they won was because Gruden balanced the team.

And this makes sense when you see Dungy in Indy. He had an offense that he did not have to deal with or hold accountable because of Manning. The Colts needed a defense to get over the hump, and Dungy provided it.

In each case, a specific coach was brought into already successful teams to provide balance on both sides of the ball where required. And for this reason, I do not see either Gruden or Dungy as good for the Houston Texans in 2014. We need a big picture coach that elevates all three phases of the game.

toronto
12-13-2013, 11:37 AM
Didn't Gruden just re-up with ESPN??

Yes I think so. I really think any fan of a team in need of a coach needs to realize that Gruden and Cowher are likely now never happening. Both have discovered they don't need the intense 100 hour weeks, and love what they are doing, and are both compensated a ton.

From some of his tweets, sometimes I wonder if Dungy could be coaxed back, but again, I think he's another guy that's at peace outside the lines.

The solutions are going to have to be more outside the box, unless an owner decides to go bananas and offers one of these SB winners a slice of the team.

mussop
12-15-2013, 07:58 PM
I could care less about callers, dumb sonsabitches wait hours just to spew ridiculous crap, they can get all that and then some right here without a wait.

Not sure what the infatuation is with the guy he is a horrible talk show host, how many times has he been bounced around just at that station alone? "Trying to find room for him". Poor Adam Clanton and his fake laughs to cover for his cohost.

John Lopez and that other clown are even worse.

I'm back to Mike and Mike and the lack of local coverage until Greg and ND come on, Matt Thomas is great and the king of Houston sports talk Charlie Palillo.

You and LZ homies or something? Lol.

Did he bang your girlfriend or something? lol

thunderkyss
12-16-2013, 08:43 AM
John Lopez and that other clown are even worse.



That fake laugh of his.... just ruins the whole station for me.

El Tejano
12-18-2013, 12:00 PM
It could be his brother Jay Gruden who was in for an interview.

Nitrofish
12-18-2013, 01:15 PM
Gruden may very well end up in Texas. but not the Texans.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000300431/article/report-jon-gruden-would-consider-coaching-texas-longhorns