PDA

View Full Version : Quarterback Draft


gwallaia
11-25-2013, 10:19 AM
If the Texans select a QB with their first pick, which could very well be the #1 overall pick. Who should they select?

stingray
11-25-2013, 10:26 AM
Who's Terry Bridgewater?:kitten:

Playoffs
11-25-2013, 10:36 AM
Teddy Bridgewater*, QB, Louisville
Height: 6-3. Weight: 218.
Projected 40 Time: 4.62.
Projected Round (2014): Top-10 Pick.
11/23/13: Bridgewater's status is holding steady as the No. 1 quarterback prospect and likely No. 1 overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft. He has completed 71 percent of his passes this year for 3,048 yards with 24 touchdowns and three interceptions.

Bridgewater is simply putting on passing clinics this season. He has hung tough to deliver passes in the face of pass rush, showed mobility on rollouts, demonstrated good arm strength and been scarily accurate. Bridgewater has played well on third downs, too. He has shown great poise in the pocket on a number of throws and is patient enough to let his receivers work themselves open. Bridgewater seems utterly unstoppable.
...
Bridgewater has an excellent physical skill set. He possesses pure passing ability with some running ability to hurt defenses on the ground. The junior has a strong arm and with natural accuracy. Bridgewater is still developing physically and mentally. He could turn into a special player.
...
Personal: Sports administration major, son of Rose Murphy.


Marcus Mariota**, QB, Oregon
Height: 6-4. Weight: 218.
Projected 40 Time: 4.65.
Projected Round (2014): Top-10 Pick.
11/23/13: Mariota has been dominant this season and is proving to be an elite quarterback prospect. The redshirt sophomore has completed 64 percent of his passes in 2013 for 2,819 yards with 25 touchdowns and zero interceptions. On the ground, he's run for 600 yards (477 net) with nine touchdowns.

Mariota has a strong arm, size and excellent mobility. As a passer, he can do it all, he but could use some refinement in his mechanics and footwork. Mariota has been a dominant point-machine since taking over as Oregon's starting quarterback.
...
Personal: From Hawaii. Majoring in human physiology. Son of Toa Mariota and Alana-Deppe-Mariota.

Johnny Manziel**, QB, Texas A&M
Height: 6-1. Weight: 200.
Projected 40 Time: 4.60.
Projected Round (2014): 1.
11/23/13: The sophomore has completed 73 percent of his passes this year for 3,313 yards with 31 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He's run for 743 yards (611 net) with eight scores, too. While Manziel's running ability gets a lot of attention, he is showing that his passing skills are improved and underrated.

Manziel's footwork, accuracy, ball placement and field vision also look better this season; his instincts are off the charts. He always seems to be a step ahead of the defense.
...
Manziel has a good arm and accuracy for a pro prospect, but will need to continue to develop his ability to be a pocket passer. Specifically, Manziel needs to improve his footwork and become more uniform with his feet and throwing mechanics. Obviously, Manziel has great mobility. He is so dangerous when he is on the run with the threat to keep it himself or pass the ball. Alabama's 2012 defense, comprised of NFL talent, lost at home to Manziel as he put up almost 350 yards of total offense.
...
Personal: Business major, son of Michelle and Paul Manziel.


Brett Hundley**, QB, UCLA
Height: 6-3. Weight: 227.
Projected 40 Time: 4.69.
Projected Round (2014): 1.
11/23/13: Hundley has completed 68 percent of his passes this year for 2,384 yards with 20 touchdowns and eight interceptions. He led a furious comeback for a huge road win at Nebraska. Against Oregon, Hundley completed 13-of-19 passes for 64 yards with a touchdown and two interceptions. He ran for 72 yards on 15 carries and a score as well. Hundley needs to improve on his decision-making and patience, but he played better than those numbers indicate.

Hundley didn't play very well when Stanford topped UCLA. He completed 24-of-39 passes for 192 yards with a touchdown and two interceptions. The second pick wasn't his fault as his receiver fell down. Hundley could use some refinement and should probably return for his junior season, but there rumors that he will declare for the 2014 NFL Draft.
...
The UCLA coaching staff has a lot of NFL experience and is grooming Hundley well for the next level. He fits in the mold of athletic quarterbacks with good arms. Hundley has room for improvement, but he has the potential to rise high into the first round.

Personal: Undeclared major. Son of Brett, Sr. and April Hundley.


Derek Carr, QB, Fresno State
Height: 6-3. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2014): 1-2.
11/23/13: Carr has been tremendous in carrying Fresno State to an undefeated record thus far in the 2013 season. He was clutch in the fourth quarter and overtime to push his team to wins over Rutgers and Boise State. The senior has been phenomenal in his decision-making while showing a strong arm with good field vision.

In 2013, Carr has completed 70 percent of his passes for 3,421 yards with 32 touchdowns and four interceptions. It looks like is playing seven-on-seven football with the way he threads the ball in all levels of the defense and takes what the defenders are giving him. Carr is dominating a weak level of competition.
...
Carr has a strong arm and good mechanics. The senior should improve over this senior and could receive Thursday night consideration.

Personal: Brother of David Carr, former No. 1 overall pick by the Texans. Son of Rodger and Sheryl Carr. Derek Carr is married. Majoring in recreation administration and leisure services management.


Tajh Boyd, QB, Clemson
Height: 6-1. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.63.
Projected Round (2014): 1-2.
11/23/13: In 2013, Boyd has completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,960 yards with 24 touchdowns and seven interceptions. He has run for 412 yards (237 net) and eight touchdowns, too. Boyd struggled against Florida State. Height concerns and accuracy issues pushes him lower among the quarterbacks. Sources have told WalterFootball.com that Boyd could go as high as the middle of the first round or fall to round two.

Boyd has had many prolific games, including a massive performance against Georgia Tech where he put on a clinic for throwing deep balls. Boyd opened the season with a gritty performance to lead the Tigers to a win over Georgia. He made clutch plays all night and would have had an even bigger game if his receivers hadn't dropped so many passes. Boyd completed 18-of-30 passes for 270 yards with three touchdowns. He ran for 42 yards on 13 carries and two scores on the ground as well.
...
There is a lot to like about Boyd as a passer since he has some some natural ability. Boyd is a very accurate passer who can make precision throws down the field. He has a good arm to make throws in every level of the defense. Plus, Boyd hangs tough in the pocket and can take a hit. Outside of his passing and running ability, the only real knock on him is his size. It would be good to see the senior improve his anticipation and ball placement this season.
...
Personal: Sociology major. WalterFootball.com has heard from scouts that Boyd is a good teammate and a hard worker.


Zach Mettenberger, QB, LSU
Height: 6-5. Weight: 230.
Projected 40 Time: 4.90.
Projected Round (2014): 2-3.
11/23/13: Mettenberger has massively improved his game under the direction of offensive coordinator Cam Cameron. The senior's accuracy, decision-making, field vision and fundamentals are exceptionally better. He has completed 66 percent of his passes this season for 2,733 yards with 20 touchdowns and seven interceptions. On the road at Georgia, Mettenberger had a great performance to almost lead LSU to a road victory. The Tigers' defense failed him in the 44-41 loss to the Bulldogs.
...
Mettenberger has the physical skill set to be a starter. He has big-time arm and pocket presence. Mettenberger needs to improve his footwork and become more accurate. He also must improve his decision-making. Mettenberger has good receivers to throw to, but he still plays in a ground-based offense so he may not produce big totals in 2013. A big senior year could cause him to rise into the early rounds.

Personal: Majoring in general studies. Son of Bernie and Tammy Mettenberger.


Kevin Hogan**, QB, Stanford
Height: 6-4. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2014): 2-3.
11/23/13: Hogan hasn't been as good as expected this year, and Stanford's passing attack has been underwhelming. For the season, he's completed 60 percent of his passes for 1,723 yards with 13 touchdowns and seven interceptions. Hogan has averaged 4.5 yards per carry for 298 yards on the ground with a touchdown, too (259 net). In an upset over Oregon, Hogan made some clutch throws for the Cardinal. He had a letdown in a road loss at USC.
...
Hogan (6-4, 220) should get better with experience. He showed real passing talent with accuracy and a strong arm.

Personal: Majoring in science, technology and society. Son of Donna and Jerry Hogan.


Aaron Murray, QB, Georgia
Height: 6-1. Weight: 211.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2014): 2-3.
11/23/13: Murray has been inconsistent at times, but he has played with a patchwork supporting cast as injuries have ravaged the Bulldogs. The senior had a huge performance against LSU with 20-of-34 for 298 yards with four touchdowns and an interception. He also played well to lead Georgia over South Carolina.

On the road versus Clemson to open 2013, Murray had some rough moments in a loss to the Tigers. He also struggled in a loss to Missouri. Murray led a furious fourth quarter comeback with two rushing touchdowns to almost get a win at Auburn. The senior has completed 64 percent of his passes in 2013 for 2,892 yards with 22 touchdowns and eight interceptions. On the ground, Murray has run for seven touchdowns with 241 yards (155 net).

...
The big knock on Murray is his height. That causes some to wonder if will translate into the NFL. At the same time, Murray has a quality arm and flashes the ability to be a good game manager. Everybody can expect to hear a lot of Drew Brees citations in arguments for Murray.

Personal: Murray is getting a graduate degree in industrial-organizational psychology.


A.J. McCarron, QB, Alabama
Height: 6-4. Weight: 214.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2014): 2-3.
11/23/13: McCarron's performances versus Virginia Tech and Ole Miss were underwhelming. He hasn't been able to answer some of the questions about his passing ability. The senior hasn't illustrated a stronger arm than in 2012, and he has thrown some passes off his back foot when he didn't need to.

On the flip side, McCarron played extremely well against Texas A&M to win a shootout at Kyle Field. In 2013, he has completed 68 percent of his passes for 2,228 yards with 21 touchdowns and five interceptions.
*Junior; **Sophomore

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014QB.php

Hervoyel
11-25-2013, 10:38 AM
Who's Terry Bridgewater?:kitten:

Teddy Bridgewater's illegitimate half brother fathered by Terry Bradshaw?

gwallaia
11-25-2013, 10:42 AM
Did I say Terry?

michaelm
11-25-2013, 10:46 AM
I would never be a proponent of drafting Derrick Carr, based on the Texans history with his brother, but I watched a couple of Fresno State games in the past few weeks, and that dude seems like a cold blooded killer out there. I was very impressed, even though I had a natural bias against him before I ever watched him play.

kingtexan
11-25-2013, 10:53 AM
I would never be a proponent of drafting Derrick Carr, based on the Texans history with his brother, but I watched a couple of Fresno State games in the past few weeks, and that dude seems like a cold blooded killer out there. I was very impressed, even though I had a natural bias against him before I ever watched him play.

He is a completely different person than his brother.

Right now, he would be my pick.

TEXANRED
11-25-2013, 10:54 AM
I want Carr!

jaayteetx
11-25-2013, 10:56 AM
Pretty sure I sat next to Derek Carr at an Astro game several years back when he was in high school in the area. Also pretty sure the Texans would avoid Carr part deuce.

Playoffs
11-25-2013, 10:57 AM
Did I say Terry?

In the poll. ;)

I can already read the headlines, now... they'll take off on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-PNun-Pfb4

beerlover
11-25-2013, 11:02 AM
I really like Tajh Boyd poise, leadership & toughness. He's not a big, tall pocket QB like Bridgewater (who would be the pick if in fact Texans own #1) but he is a solid six footer, 225 pounds, can perform without plus protection, durable, good athlete, does well avoiding rush while extending plays going through his progressions. He averages almost 300 yards per game, 29 TD's vs 7 INT's. Played with Hopkins who was his favorite target @ Clemson. Natural Fit!

nero THE zero
11-25-2013, 11:04 AM
I'd be 100% OK with Bridgewater or Mariota.

Probably prefer Bridgewater, but I'd be fine with either.

Matt Waldman of Football Outsiders wrote a great article comparing the two. I wish I could find it.

spurstexanstros
11-25-2013, 11:09 AM
I have several Carr Jersies I could use again, also wasnt he a poster on here I think I had several conversations with Derek...Hulk something I think

Mr teX
11-25-2013, 11:12 AM
I wouldn't rule out carr..he's got the same physical tools his brother had but he wont have to go thru the same crap his brother did in terms of being drafted by a virtually talentless expansion team that's gonna get him killed....Of course, this is b/c i'll always feel that the biggest detriment to David Carr's development here was that he got hit so much, he got shell shocked.

Derek Carr also has the advantage of having had a brother that has played in the NFL & who likely did help him with learning pro game concepts early in his development at Fresno State...Most times it's the younger sibling/offspring that can't live up to the older sibling/parents reputation...sometimes it works out better going in the opposite direction though b/c the younger has the advantage of seeing what not to do & how things will be. See the Mannings.

I also feel deep down, he may want to make good on what his brother failed to deliver to this city for both of their sakes.....

b0ng
11-25-2013, 11:12 AM
It's November (unfortunately). A lot of these guys are going to rise and fall throughout the draft process so answers that may be given now, may not actually reflect what might be the correct answer in about 5ish months. We may be dealing with a new FO and HC staff and their philosophy could be completely off kilter from what we project them out to be at this early into the draft process.

Bridgewater may be the overwhelming favorite here, but he has a better than 0 shot of going back to school for 2014. Same with Manziel and Mariota. I'll vote for Teddy but that is subject to much change.

Hervoyel
11-25-2013, 11:14 AM
Mettenberger. That's who I would take. Use the 1 to get my RT/LT bookend to Duane Brown and then grab Mettenberger with the 2.

Mr teX
11-25-2013, 11:17 AM
Mettenberger. That's who I would take. Use the 1 to get my RT/LT bookend to Duane Brown and then grab Mettenberger with the 2.

but mettenberger wears #8 though.......

amazing80
11-25-2013, 11:19 AM
I didnt want Teddy for awhile, but after watching more of him and rewatching his bowl game, I think you HAVE to take him. Great passer, mobile, smart instincts, accurate.....you take the franchise qb and don't look back.....fill rt in free agency

Rey
11-25-2013, 11:27 AM
I have not really looked at Carr, but if the guy is a good player I don't care who his brothers are.

But my vote is for bridgewater. #1 overall, take him. Any pick below that, well...that's a different story.

Rey
11-25-2013, 11:28 AM
I have several Carr Jersies I could use again, also wasnt he a poster on here I think I had several conversations with Derek...Hulk something I think

Hulk was not Derek. That was an older brother.

TheIronDuke
11-25-2013, 11:29 AM
I voted Mariota but I'd really prefer we not take a QB at #1 overall and trade down with the Browns or someone and get 2 1st's and another second and take McCarron in the 2nd. Also take a tackle with the other 2nd. You CAN find good tackles outside the first round.

nero THE zero
11-25-2013, 11:31 AM
I have not really looked at Carr, but if the guy is a good player I don't care who his brothers are.

But my vote is for bridgewater. #1 overall, take him. Any pick below that, well...that's a different story.

The biggest issue with David Carr was his commitment to the game. He was notorious for surrounding himself with family (even at practices, before games, etc.) and not fully committing himself to football.

If you could have taken David Carr and instilled a Peyton Manning work ethic in him, you're probably looking at a 12-15 year NFL starter, at the least.

What should be interesting is to see if Derek Carr is subject to these same priority issues, or if he can transcend them. I will enjoy watching another team conduct that experiment.

kiwitexansfan
11-25-2013, 11:35 AM
I'm ready for the Texans to drop dead for Ted.

kiwitexansfan
11-25-2013, 11:36 AM
The biggest issue with David Carr was his commitment to the game. He was notorious for surrounding himself with family (even at practices, before games, etc.) and not fully committing himself to football.

If you could have taken David Carr and instilled a Peyton Manning work ethic in him, you're probably looking at a 12-15 year NFL starter, at the least.

What should be interesting is to see if Derek Carr is subject to these same priority issues, or if he can transcend them. I will enjoy watching another team conduct that experiment.

To be honest I loved that about Carr. Didn't make him a great football player but was admirable as a man.

YeaLikeRightNow
11-25-2013, 11:42 AM
I want Carr!

Derek Carr threw for 527 yards and a school-record seven touchdowns in his final regular-season home game to help No. 16 Fresno State clinch a spot in the Mountain West title game with a 69-28 victory over New Mexico this past Saturday.

:clap:

Thorn
11-25-2013, 11:44 AM
I don't give a damn if this Carr fellow's first names are Jesus and Christ. I do NOT want a QB named Carr on the Texans.

TheIronDuke
11-25-2013, 11:46 AM
I don't give a damn if this Carr fellow's first names are Jesus and Christ. I do NOT want a QB named Carr on the Texans.

LOL! Actually, Thorn, his middle name is DALLAS!

TexansBull
11-25-2013, 11:56 AM
Am I a bad person because a little bit of me would like to see the fallout from drafting Derek Carr?

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

Hervoyel
11-25-2013, 11:58 AM
To be honest I loved that about Carr. Didn't make him a great football player but was admirable as a man.

Indeed. I just don't want that man quarterbacking my team.

I want an obsessed ******* who can't pull his head out of the game. I want a guy who dies on the inside whenever his team loses and who will climb over small children to win the father-son picnic sack race.

Ok, maybe that's a bit much but I don't want anymore conflicted angels who can't dedicate themselves to winning leading the Texans.

Maybe we could quick-turnaround with a new HC, a trade for Roethlisberger (The Steelers must want one of these pretend franchise QB's) and RT in the second round?

Hervoyel
11-25-2013, 12:00 PM
Derek Carr threw for 527 yards and a school-record seven touchdowns in his final regular-season home game to help No. 16 Fresno State clinch a spot in the Mountain West title game with a 69-28 victory over New Mexico this past Saturday.

:clap:

And I'm sure the pass rush was fierce. No thanks.

Thorn
11-25-2013, 12:01 PM
Am I a bad person because a little bit of me would like to see the fallout from drafting Derek Carr?

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

:lol:

Yes, you are a bad bad person. LOL

TexanBacker93
11-25-2013, 12:03 PM
I want Carr!

If he is drafted by the Texans and takes #8 it could save fans some money as they could recycle his brother's jersey.

Provided they haven't given it to goodwill.

TEXANRED
11-25-2013, 12:10 PM
I don't give a damn if this Carr fellow's first names are Jesus and Christ. I do NOT want a QB named Carr on the Texans.

I thought his name was Jesus Christ Carr. I spent many a Sunday's screaming that at the TV.

swisher
11-25-2013, 12:17 PM
I don't know why but Teddy Bridgewater scares me. If he was putting up numbers in a big time conference I would be more willing to buy into the hype.

kiwitexansfan
11-25-2013, 12:23 PM
If he is drafted by the Texans and takes #8 it could save fans some money as they could recycle his brother's jersey.

Provided they haven't given it to goodwill.

This is my main case for selecting Carr.

WolverineFan
11-25-2013, 12:39 PM
I don't know why but Teddy Bridgewater scares me. If he was putting up numbers in a big time conference I would be more willing to buy into the hype.

People said the same thing about Roethlisberger. The thing is, you know talent when you see it. This kid is talented and it doesn't matter what conference he plays in.

I'd also like to point out that he was a big time recruit. He was offered by all of the Florida schools and was going to go to Miami until Strong got the Louisville job.

I'd say it worked out perfectly. He got to stay away from the disaster that was Miami's off the field stuff and the disaster that is Florida's offense. He also didn't have to spend his entire career on the bench behind Ponder and Manuel before getting one year to start at Florida State. Instead he went to Louisville, where he's been a 3-year starter, conference player of the year, and won the Sugar Bowl.

b0ng
11-25-2013, 01:01 PM
I don't know why but Teddy Bridgewater scares me. If he was putting up numbers in a big time conference I would be more willing to buy into the hype.

You can't just only draft QB's from the SEC or whatever other conference you think "actually plays defense" you'll miss out on tons and tons of talent.

PapaL
11-25-2013, 01:16 PM
It's easy to fall in love with a highlight reel but this kid can fling it. The part about his mom is very inspirational.

http://youtu.be/XxA8zqa6MEg

Wolf6151
11-25-2013, 01:36 PM
Why isn't Brett Hundley on the list?

htownfan32
11-25-2013, 01:54 PM
Why isn't Brett Hundley on the list?

Because Hundley is raw as hell. I was high on him earlier in the season but I think he needs to spend one more year in school.
I didn't make the poll though.

bhsman
11-25-2013, 02:01 PM
I'm becoming more of the opinion after this week to grab Clowney at #1/2 overall and then grabbing one of the Mettenberger/Boyd/Morris kids at #33/4, followed by offensive/defensive lineman depth in rounds 3/4.

bhsman
11-25-2013, 02:21 PM
I thought his name was Jesus Christ Carr. I spent many a Sunday's screaming that at the TV.

Jesus Christ: SuperCarr? :kitten:

Ben Frank
11-25-2013, 03:23 PM
I'd be 100% OK with Bridgewater or Mariota.

Probably prefer Bridgewater, but I'd be fine with either.

Matt Waldman of Football Outsiders wrote a great article comparing the two. I wish I could find it.

This.

playa465
11-25-2013, 08:09 PM
I don't give a damn if this Carr fellow's first names are Jesus and Christ. I do NOT want a QB named Carr on the Texans.

:spit:

Texian
11-25-2013, 08:44 PM
My new vote, if he declares, goes to Blake Bortles and if you see his girlfriend you would vote for him too.

badboy
11-25-2013, 09:21 PM
My new vote, if he declares, goes to Blake Bortles and if you see his girlfriend you would vote for him too.Bortles is not listed at all by either ESPN or Walter, why?

infantrycak
11-25-2013, 09:27 PM
My new vote, if he declares, goes to Blake Bortles and if you see his girlfriend you would vote for him too.

She's the pair on the left:

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/blake-bortles-girlfriend-lindsey-duke-5.jpg

Honoring Earl 34
11-25-2013, 09:39 PM
She's the pair on the left:

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/blake-bortles-girlfriend-lindsey-duke-5.jpg

I see the potential .

How about a 40 yard dash . :evil:

Texian
11-25-2013, 10:31 PM
Bortles is not listed at all by either ESPN or Walter, why?

I think the news that he might declare for draft is only recent, within the last week or so. He was definitely under the radar but I doubt for long. I read something about it for the first time this past weekend so I began to do some due diligence. I had watched the Louisville game and so I went back and watched again. I had taped the Rutgers so I watched it. I have since watched the Penn St game and Houston. Needless to say I am impressed. He's talented in football and picking girlfriends.

I think Bortles two scores in the last 2 minutes to beat Temple 39-36 along with catch made by JJ Worton is what opened some eyes for many about Blake Bortles: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-11-16/sports/os-ucf-football-1117-20131116_1_ucf-qb-blake-bortles-ucf-coach-george-o-leary-j-j-worton

badboy
11-25-2013, 11:00 PM
Well I have watched UCF but mostly their defense as I focused on the opponent's offense if that makes sense. Houston and Louisville & then Connecticut as I wanted info on ILB Smallwood but UCF quickly blew them out and did same to Rutgers so I switched to other games. TBH, I lost track of their record and have not watched Bortles much at all. Like you I was surprised to see his stats. I will watch him the last two games and hopefully a bowl.

WolverineFan
11-25-2013, 11:43 PM
Well I have watched UCF but mostly their defense as I focused on the opponent's offense if that makes sense. Houston and Louisville & then Connecticut as I wanted info on ILB Smallwood but UCF quickly blew them out and did same to Rutgers so I switched to other games. TBH, I lost track of their record and have not watched Bortles much at all. Like you I was surprised to see his stats. I will watch him the last two games and hopefully a bowl.

If UCF wins out they will get a BCS bid, most likely Sugar Bowl. Bortles will get the same chance that Bridgewater had last year to showcase his ability.

Mr teX
11-26-2013, 09:16 AM
I like Bortles..he's a little careless with the ball at times, but he looks good.

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 10:17 AM
I voted McCarron,

but I certianly dont want him at 1-1. But I would much rather have McCarron at 3-1 than Bridgewater at 1-1.

badboy
11-26-2013, 02:01 PM
I voted McCarron,

but I certianly dont want him at 1-1. But I would much rather have McCarron at 3-1 than Bridgewater at 1-1.This is what keeps nudging me. We are going to build the offensive line anyway; we have to, so why not get a QB that has proven to play well from the pocket and can move if needed? No one knows if McCarron can take a team on his back and win but no one knows if he cannot. Spend a first on Jake Matthews and second round on Cyril Richardson or even my guy Gabe Jackson in third round opening second round for another position. How about Keenum and McCarron behind Brown, Gabe Jackson, Myers (Jones soon), Brooks and Matthews. A healthy Quessenberry and Brennan Williams could be awesome. I still think Newton could get better if allowed to heal up.

Has any of this draft crop of QBs faced the same level of competition as McCarron and won as many? We need a well tuned car not a supercharged V8 in a old vehicle that cannot get out of driveway because the tranny slips, tires are old and we cannot afford to change oil or wiper blades.

Mr teX
11-26-2013, 02:14 PM
I liked McCarron alot..like 2nd round alot.... but then i took a closer look..& now i'm starting to not like him as much. 3rd round sounds about right now. My main criticism of him is the same as Mariota. Most of the throws he was being asked to make were just too damn easy...Guys running wide open or simple 1 read routes.

badboy
11-26-2013, 02:43 PM
I liked McCarron alot..like 2nd round alot.... but then i took a closer look..& now i'm starting to not like him as much. 3rd round sounds about right now. My main criticism of him is the same as Mariota. Most of the throws he was being asked to make were just too damn easy...Guys running wide open or simple 1 read routes.So you do not take a guy who does what he is told? If you have a game plan that has AJ winning 36 of 38 & two national titles with a third possibility in front of you would you change?

Look at this amazing Oline that no other QB apparently has (sarcasm):
LT Kouandijo, LG Arie K. a sophomore, Center a red shirt sophomore, RG Anthony Steen senior ranked #87 and 5th best guard (does not include tackle who will move to OG) and RT Austin Sheperd (who?).

So LT Kouandijo rated 10-15 and solid play from the others. I think he would do as well behind the Oline I mentioned last post.

Exascor
11-26-2013, 03:30 PM
Has any of this draft crop of QBs faced the same level of competition as McCarron and won as many? We need a well tuned car not a supercharged V8 in a old vehicle that cannot get out of driveway because the tranny slips, tires are old and we cannot afford to change oil or wiper blades. So you do not take a guy who does what he is told? If you have a game plan that has AJ winning 36 of 38 & two national titles with a third possibility in front of you would you change? McCarron's winning % and national championships don't mean more than a paragraph on his resume. His TEAM won those games. Even if he really was the difference maker in the wins, he doesn't win squat if his defense allows more points than he scores. Either he's worth taking or not. BTW - what is Adrian Peterson's or Reggie White's winning percentage?

As for your car analogy - I like it but let's change it a little.
In a race would you rather have:
-A nice reliable Toyota Corolla 4 cylinder that runs perfect.
-A 700+ HP Shelby Cobra that requires some skill to keep running, get off the line & keep on the road?

In the hands of a skilled driver (think coach) the Corolla will still only run at a moderate speed with terrible acceleration. With that same driver, the Cobra will have a legitimate chance to win the race.

I'd rather take a chance on a QB with high potential than draft a QB that will never amount to more than middle of the pack. That chance can be using a high pick on someone who is considered the best, may end up great but may end up not being better than solid (Bridgewater/Mariotta). The chance could also be using a lower pick on a risky QB with a super high ceiling like Manziel or Carr. Drafting McCarron or Mettenberger is too much like getting Schaub again.

Honoring Earl 34
11-26-2013, 04:05 PM
McCarron's winning % and national championships don't mean more than a paragraph on his resume. His TEAM won those games. Even if he really was the difference maker in the wins, he doesn't win squat if his defense allows more points than he scores. Either he's worth taking or not. BTW - what is Adrian Peterson's or Reggie White's winning percentage?

As for your car analogy - I like it but let's change it a little.
In a race would you rather have:
-A nice reliable Toyota Corolla 4 cylinder that runs perfect.
-A 700+ HP Shelby Cobra that requires some skill to keep running, get off the line & keep on the road?

In the hands of a skilled driver (think coach) the Corolla will still only run at a moderate speed with terrible acceleration. With that same driver, the Cobra will have a legitimate chance to win the race.

I'd rather take a chance on a QB with high potential than draft a QB that will never amount to more than middle of the pack. That chance can be using a high pick on someone who is considered the best, may end up great but may end up not being better than solid (Bridgewater/Mariotta). The chance could also be using a lower pick on a risky QB with a super high ceiling like Manziel or Carr. Drafting McCarron or Mettenberger is too much like getting Schaub again.

John Elway was 5-6 his last year .

badboy
11-26-2013, 05:20 PM
McCarron's winning % and national championships don't mean more than a paragraph on his resume. His TEAM won those games. Even if he really was the difference maker in the wins, he doesn't win squat if his defense allows more points than he scores. Either he's worth taking or not. BTW - what is Adrian Peterson's or Reggie White's winning percentage?

As for your car analogy - I like it but let's change it a little.
In a race would you rather have:
-A nice reliable Toyota Corolla 4 cylinder that runs perfect.
-A 700+ HP Shelby Cobra that requires some skill to keep running, get off the line & keep on the road?

In the hands of a skilled driver (think coach) the Corolla will still only run at a moderate speed with terrible acceleration. With that same driver, the Cobra will have a legitimate chance to win the race.

I'd rather take a chance on a QB with high potential than draft a QB that will never amount to more than middle of the pack. That chance can be using a high pick on someone who is considered the best, may end up great but may end up not being better than solid (Bridgewater/Mariotta). The chance could also be using a lower pick on a risky QB with a super high ceiling like Manziel or Carr. Drafting McCarron or Mettenberger is too much like getting Schaub again.

This is what makes MBs and mocks so much fun. Evaluation. I think you do have to look at winning percentage versus high quality opponents. Alabama has been # 1 three consecutive years and that is worth more than a paragraph. I want someone that is a consistent winner. Of course, it is a team sport but how frequently was Schaub blasted? The QB is always credit with wins and losses regardless of how team does.

Sorry but the analogy of a Shelby does not work because you imply that it is only the horsepower that makes it hard to control. You gave it no negatives as I did my illustration such as tires or tranny. I would take the Toyota every time. Surely you don't think speed or power is the only missing ingredients to Texans?

You evaluate McCarron as "never more than a middle of the pack" yet do not offer anything to support that because you cannot. If I had to pick between McCarron, Murray and Bridgewater, I would not pick AJ. That however is not the scenario as it exists today. I have to consider how the drafting of a QB effects the rest of draft. This again comes down to evaluation. Is Murray/Bridgewater + a second round tackle better for team than say Matthews (first), Cyril Richardson OG (2nd) and McCarron in third?

That is what I am evaluating.

Exascor
11-26-2013, 06:11 PM
This is what makes MBs and mocks so much fun. Evaluation. I think you do have to look at winning percentage versus high quality opponents. Alabama has been # 1 three consecutive years and that is worth more than a paragraph. I want someone that is a consistent winner. Of course, it is a team sport but how frequently was Schaub blasted? The QB is always credit with wins and losses regardless of how team does.

Sorry but the analogy of a Shelby does not work because you imply that it is only the horsepower that makes it hard to control. You gave it no negatives as I did my illustration such as tires or tranny. I would take the Toyota every time. Surely you don't think speed or power is the only missing ingredients to Texans?

You evaluate McCarron as "never more than a middle of the pack" yet do not offer anything to support that because you cannot. If I had to pick between McCarron, Murray and Bridgewater, I would not pick AJ. That however is not the scenario as it exists today. I have to consider how the drafting of a QB effects the rest of draft. This again comes down to evaluation. Is Murray/Bridgewater + a second round tackle better for team than say Matthews (first), Cyril Richardson OG (2nd) and McCarron in third?

That is what I am evaluating.I got ya. You misunderstood my terrible analogy so I'll drop that. The point is that at all positions you can try to make the draft picks fit - except QB. I just don't think you ever pass on a great QB (I'm not saying that anyone in this draft fits - I'm not good enough to). You don't pick a great OLB in the first, passing over a potential top 5 QB, then take one of the "other" QBs. IMO that is a way to ruin your team. You may get good QB play but never great. I want great. I want a QB that can win games not one that can "not lose" games. With draft picks not hitting the cap as hard as the past, taking a QB with a first round pick and whiffing doesn't cost the team as much as it did in the past. If one seems like he could be a top end QB, take the chance or you'll be stuck with McCarron's and Mettenberger's or giving up tons of picks to move up to get another high draft pick (see Redskins for RG3).

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 07:17 PM
McCarron's winning % and national championships don't mean more than a paragraph on his resume. His TEAM won those games. Even if he really was the difference maker in the wins, he doesn't win squat if his defense allows more points than he scores. Either he's worth taking or not. BTW - what is Adrian Peterson's or Reggie White's winning percentage?

As for your car analogy - I like it but let's change it a little.
In a race would you rather have:
-A nice reliable Toyota Corolla 4 cylinder that runs perfect.
-A 700+ HP Shelby Cobra that requires some skill to keep running, get off the line & keep on the road?

In the hands of a skilled driver (think coach) the Corolla will still only run at a moderate speed with terrible acceleration. With that same driver, the Cobra will have a legitimate chance to win the race.

I'd rather take a chance on a QB with high potential than draft a QB that will never amount to more than middle of the pack. That chance can be using a high pick on someone who is considered the best, may end up great but may end up not being better than solid (Bridgewater/Mariotta). The chance could also be using a lower pick on a risky QB with a super high ceiling like Manziel or Carr. Drafting McCarron or Mettenberger is too much like getting Schaub again.

I love BB's car reference, Yuo cant use the word tranny in too many sentences.

As for the race driver analogy, I see more Dale jr than Jimmy Johnson in Bridgewater. Good but not great.

Mettenberger has a better arm than Schaub has ever had. Flacco/Roethlisberger would be better comparisons. (It makes me wonder how much/if you've seen Mettenberger play.) McCarron reminds me of Phillip Rivers. Quick release and an above avg/not howitzer type arm.

I consider Bridgewater/McCarrons arm strength to be equal.

kiwitexansfan
11-26-2013, 07:56 PM
This is what makes MBs and mocks so much fun. Evaluation. I think you do have to look at winning percentage versus high quality opponents. Alabama has been # 1 three consecutive years and that is worth more than a paragraph. I want someone that is a consistent winner. Of course, it is a team sport but how frequently was Schaub blasted? The QB is always credit with wins and losses regardless of how team does.

Sorry but the analogy of a Shelby does not work because you imply that it is only the horsepower that makes it hard to control. You gave it no negatives as I did my illustration such as tires or tranny. I would take the Toyota every time. Surely you don't think speed or power is the only missing ingredients to Texans?

You evaluate McCarron as "never more than a middle of the pack" yet do not offer anything to support that because you cannot. If I had to pick between McCarron, Murray and Bridgewater, I would not pick AJ. That however is not the scenario as it exists today. I have to consider how the drafting of a QB effects the rest of draft. This again comes down to evaluation. Is Murray/Bridgewater + a second round tackle better for team than say Matthews (first), Cyril Richardson OG (2nd) and McCarron in third?

That is what I am evaluating.

QB trumps al in my book, get a great one and you are half way there.

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 08:00 PM
QB trumps al in my book, get a great one and you are half way there.

Agreed

I just dont think Bridgewater will be great. Good yes, great no.

bckey
11-27-2013, 04:51 AM
To be honest I loved that about Carr. Didn't make him a great football player but was admirable as a man.

Bob?

Mr teX
11-27-2013, 09:25 AM
So you do not take a guy who does what he is told? If you have a game plan that has AJ winning 36 of 38 & two national titles with a third possibility in front of you would you change?

Look at this amazing Oline that no other QB apparently has (sarcasm):
LT Kouandijo, LG Arie K. a sophomore, Center a red shirt sophomore, RG Anthony Steen senior ranked #87 and 5th best guard (does not include tackle who will move to OG) and RT Austin Sheperd (who?).

So LT Kouandijo rated 10-15 and solid play from the others. I think he would do as well behind the Oline I mentioned last post.

Most young qb's struggle with how much smaller the NFL passing window gets from college. this, combined with other factors is why you see so many of them come in their 1st year and are either throwing picks by the boat loads or are holding onto the ball too long and taking so many sacks...They're waiting for that 2-5 yard window to open up on 1 of their WR's...which rarely happens.

Any decent NFL back up can come in & "do what they're told" by throwing it to guys running wide open by 2-5 yards like Mariota & McCarron largely have had to do. & from a qb's perspective, It's easy to be confident throwing the ball when you know you've got 2-5+ yards where you can miss. All of these prospects can do that.


When you're looking for a young talented qb in the draft, You want to see a guy who is confident & comfortable throwing in those NFL windows which are more often than not a half a yard - 1 yard max. Haven't seen much of that from Mariota or McCarron. Not saying they can't do it, but it's definitely gonna be an adjustment they're gonna struggle with. Mettenberger is the guy i've seen most consistently do that with relatively no issues...

Texian
11-27-2013, 09:41 AM
Mettenberger is the guy i've seen most consistently do that with relatively no issues...

Agree, Mett also has Beckham and Landry which helps. Murray, Manziel and Bortles also do a pretty good job of throwing through that 2' window.

bhsman
11-27-2013, 10:35 AM
Yeah, Jarvis Landry AKA Juice likes to make ridiculous catches every single game, with the 2012 Arkansas one-handed catch and catch while triple-covered against Georgia this year. If we weren't already fairly set at wideout, I would love to see the Texans pick him up. As it stands, however, he is a 1st-2nd round talent at this point.

beerlover
11-27-2013, 11:29 AM
I've been wrong all season in regards to Texan ineptitude, never thinking once first pick would be @ hand & still refuse to believe it!

If by pop & circumstance they do, there are other teams who will covet Bridgewater, get my drift.

He is a marksman in the pocket as good as I've ever seen. His windows are tighter & more precise than even Aaron Rodgers coming out of College. However he will need significant supporting cast mainly offensive linemen who can wall off defenders, like Denver has for Manning. So how can he withstand solid contact @ NFL level when teams know line cannot hold up & they can just pin there ears back while staggering LB's up the middle through gaps? :swatter:

Texian
11-27-2013, 12:01 PM
I've been wrong all season in regards to Texan ineptitude, never thinking once first pick would be @ hand & still refuse to believe it!

I tend to agree, even if Texans lose out. Texans still have to play NE, Indy, Denver, and Tenn and their cumulative W-L % makes it difficult to get to #1. Only real chance I see is if Texans are the lone 2-14 team.

badboy
11-27-2013, 03:36 PM
I got ya. You misunderstood my terrible analogy so I'll drop that. The point is that at all positions you can try to make the draft picks fit - except QB. I just don't think you ever pass on a great QB (I'm not saying that anyone in this draft fits - I'm not good enough to). You don't pick a great OLB in the first, passing over a potential top 5 QB, then take one of the "other" QBs. IMO that is a way to ruin your team. You may get good QB play but never great. I want great. I want a QB that can win games not one that can "not lose" games. With draft picks not hitting the cap as hard as the past, taking a QB with a first round pick and whiffing doesn't cost the team as much as it did in the past. If one seems like he could be a top end QB, take the chance or you'll be stuck with McCarron's and Mettenberger's or giving up tons of picks to move up to get another high draft pick (see Redskins for RG3).Pretty much agree with your post but does not apply in 2014 draft imo. I look more at how I think player will perform in NFL than what round picked in. I don't focus much on "reaches" either as player may be gone when your turn comes up in a later round. If you like the guy go get him.

I do pick a great "whatever" over a "potential" top 5 QB; just depends on circumstance and players. For example, I would pick Matthews over every QB as it stands today, knowing things will change rest of season, bowls, combine, etc. We are mocking or at least I am that this offense remains in place as we cannot guess who will replace Kubes or Phillips.

I want to be "stuck" with McCarron in third and hopefully trade out of top 5 in both first and second rounds as my two trade mock indicates. This is that evaluation thing I mentioned prior. We have different evals on the QBs.

badboy
11-27-2013, 03:42 PM
QB trumps al in my book, get a great one and you are half way there.Yep but none of these look "great" to me. My position is get the one you like the best BUT figure in what else you can get. A player like McCarron behind a line that we have to build no matter who we draft plus our WRs and Foster would be perfect. The only complaint most seem to have with AJ is they don't know if he can "carry" the team only because he has not had to. Other than Manziel, who has on a regular basis?

badboy
11-27-2013, 03:49 PM
Most young qb's struggle with how much smaller the NFL passing window gets from college. this, combined with other factors is why you see so many of them come in their 1st year and are either throwing picks by the boat loads or are holding onto the ball too long and taking so many sacks...They're waiting for that 2-5 yard window to open up on 1 of their WR's...which rarely happens.

Any decent NFL back up can come in & "do what they're told" by throwing it to guys running wide open by 2-5 yards like Mariota & McCarron largely have had to do. & from a qb's perspective, It's easy to be confident throwing the ball when you know you've got 2-5+ yards where you can miss. All of these prospects can do that.


When you're looking for a young talented qb in the draft, You want to see a guy who is confident & comfortable throwing in those NFL windows which are more often than not a half a yard - 1 yard max. Haven't seen much of that from Mariota or McCarron. Not saying they can't do it, but it's definitely gonna be an adjustment they're gonna struggle with. Mettenberger is the guy i've seen most consistently do that with relatively no issues...No they cannot or they would not be a backup on most teams. I am also concerned why Johnson and Hopkins don't get open more. I think it is play calling. I hate to throw to a WR behind or just past LOS. Not saying it can't be successful but seems like wasting their talent and beating them up unnecessarily. Also, as you say, all these QBs will have to adjust so that proves nothing.

badboy
11-27-2013, 03:51 PM
I've been wrong all season in regards to Texan ineptitude, never thinking once first pick would be @ hand & still refuse to believe it!

If by pop & circumstance they do, there are other teams who will covet Bridgewater, get my drift.

He is a marksman in the pocket as good as I've ever seen. His windows are tighter & more precise than even Aaron Rodgers coming out of College. However he will need significant supporting cast mainly offensive linemen who can wall off defenders, like Denver has for Manning. So how can he withstand solid contact @ NFL level when teams know line cannot hold up & they can just pin there ears back while staggering LB's up the middle through gaps? :swatter:Right on target and I do get your drift and hope Cleveland does also.

aussie_texan
11-27-2013, 05:54 PM
Right on target and I do get your drift and hope Cleveland does also.

would be an absolute dream if we got Cleveland's 2 firsts. this team could bounce back very quickly if this happened.

Rey
11-27-2013, 06:52 PM
Yeah, there's 0 chance we pass up bridgewater if the texans think he's a stud.

steelbtexan
11-27-2013, 07:30 PM
Most young qb's struggle with how much smaller the NFL passing window gets from college. this, combined with other factors is why you see so many of them come in their 1st year and are either throwing picks by the boat loads or are holding onto the ball too long and taking so many sacks...They're waiting for that 2-5 yard window to open up on 1 of their WR's...which rarely happens.

Any decent NFL back up can come in & "do what they're told" by throwing it to guys running wide open by 2-5 yards like Mariota & McCarron largely have had to do. & from a qb's perspective, It's easy to be confident throwing the ball when you know you've got 2-5+ yards where you can miss. All of these prospects can do that.


When you're looking for a young talented qb in the draft, You want to see a guy who is confident & comfortable throwing in those NFL windows which are more often than not a half a yard - 1 yard max. Haven't seen much of that from Mariota or McCarron. Not saying they can't do it, but it's definitely gonna be an adjustment they're gonna struggle with. Mettenberger is the guy i've seen most consistently do that with relatively no issues...

I've seen McCarron do this a few times, not often because he hasn't had too.

Agreed about Mettenberger, he reminds me of Roethlisberger so much. I like him better than Bridgewater because he has a better arm, stands tall in the pocket and consistently fits the ball in tight windows. Plus he's had a yr in Cameron's pro system so the learning curve may not be as great.

After Mettenberger and Carr interview and show off their arms at the combine they will probably be top 10 picks.

I also think Murray can fit the ball into the windows you are talking about. Where do you think he will fall after tearing his ACL and not being able to workout at the combine and not having a rookie training camp most likely. He may not play in 2014 but some team is going to get a steal in the 4/5th rd when they take Murray. IMHO

badboy
11-28-2013, 04:08 PM
would be an absolute dream if we got Cleveland's 2 firsts. this team could bounce back very quickly if this happened.Personally based on history of first round trades we could get even more. #8 & Colts #25 (as of today) not enough for #1 or #2. As I really like possibilities in 2nd & 3rd rounds I think I prefer those over picks in 2015. Cleveland has two thirds.

aussie_texan
11-28-2013, 07:24 PM
Personally based on history of first round trades we could get even more. #8 & Colts #25 (as of today) not enough for #1 or #2. As I really like possibilities in 2nd & 3rd rounds I think I prefer those over picks in 2015. Cleveland has two thirds.

so two 1sts and the two 3rds then. or is that to much?

then trade the 2 3rds to move up in the 2nd :specnatz:

ahhhh the possibilities :kingkong::kitten:

Texian
11-28-2013, 08:31 PM
so two 1sts and the two 3rds then. or is that to much?

then trade the 2 3rds to move up in the 2nd :specnatz:

ahhhh the possibilities :kingkong::kitten:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2257907&postcount=489

aussie_texan
11-28-2013, 08:37 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2257907&postcount=489

hmm i like where this is heading.


also i have looked at bortles some more, and I'm thinking of doing a mock with him as my franchise QB. but i think he will be available with the 1st pick of the 2nd round.

Texian
11-28-2013, 08:44 PM
hmm i like where this is heading.


also i have looked at bortles some more, and I'm thinking of doing a mock with him as my franchise QB. but i think he will be available with the 1st pick of the 2nd round.

He's on ESPN tomorrow night @ 7:00PM and by the time it gets around to the draft he'll likely be one of the Top 3 QBs. He did after all beat the media darling Teddy Bridgewater in Louisville.

aussie_texan
11-28-2013, 08:57 PM
He's on ESPN tomorrow night @ 7:00PM and by the time it gets around to the draft he'll likely be one of the Top 3 QBs. He did after all beat the media darling Teddy Bridgewater in Louisville.

bridgewater, mariota, manziel, carr, boyd. seem likely imo to go ahead of him.
his with mettenberger as the guy who could move up to the end of the first but end up going high 2nd.

manziel - someone will fall in love with the guy, just to much production to overlook.

carr - is continuing to rise week by week and shows his ability through multiple years

boyd is a ? i think the media hyped up his falling stock but i think some scouts will not be overly concerned with the one or 2 bad games. still plenty of time in the evaluation process so this could change drastically.

i think the highest brotles goes is the early 20s but at this stage his a low 1st high 2nd round grade..imo

badboy
11-28-2013, 09:08 PM
so two 1sts and the two 3rds then. or is that to much?

then trade the 2 3rds to move up in the 2nd :specnatz:

ahhhh the possibilities :kingkong::kitten:I going to disagree on trading two thirds up for a second rounder. Here are possible starters at those third round selections with ESPN rank in (): AJ McCarron (70), CJ Fiedorowicz (90) Jackson Jeffcoat (91), Pierre Desir (100), Yawin Smallwood (104), Ahmad Dixon (108), Danny Shelton NT (115), Tre Boston (122), Carlos Hyde rb (120), CJ Barnett (126).

That is just to name a few who could play significant role if not start.

aussie_texan
11-28-2013, 09:11 PM
I going to disagree on trading two thirds up for a second rounder. Here are possible starters at those third round selections with ESPN rank in (): AJ McCarron (70), CJ Fiedorowicz (90) Jackson Jeffcoat (91), Pierre Desir (100), Yawin Smallwood (104), Ahmad Dixon (108), Danny Shelton NT (115), Tre Boston (122), Carlos Hyde rb (120), CJ Barnett (126).

That is just to name a few who could play significant role if not start.

yeah i think i agree with you ... just got a little excited

bhsman
11-28-2013, 09:52 PM
This (http://www.nfldraftmaverick.com/scouting-zach-mettenberger/) is a nice write-up on Mettenberger if anyone is interested.

badboy
11-28-2013, 09:53 PM
yeah i think i agree with you ... just got a little excitedHey it is good to have something to be excited about but no reason to think Texans would trade down.

aussie_texan
11-28-2013, 09:57 PM
Hey it is good to have something to be excited about but no reason to think Texans would trade down.

???

badboy
11-28-2013, 10:05 PM
???
Just concerned they would not trade away a Clowney or Bridgewater no matter the offer. Keep in mind that some of the guys we are considering will return to school increasing pressure to keep a "star".

aussie_texan
11-28-2013, 10:08 PM
Just concerned they would not trade away a Clowney or Bridgewater no matter the offer. Keep in mind that some of the guys we are considering will return to school increasing pressure to keep a "star".

ok i understand now.

hopefully they trade down but who knows at this stage. must wait till the season ends to really start wondering about these things to make a more informed opinion

Texian
11-29-2013, 09:46 AM
bridgewater, mariota, manziel, carr, boyd. seem likely imo to go ahead of him.
his with mettenberger as the guy who could move up to the end of the first but end up going high 2nd.

manziel - someone will fall in love with the guy, just to much production to overlook.

carr - is continuing to rise week by week and shows his ability through multiple years

boyd is a ? i think the media hyped up his falling stock but i think some scouts will not be overly concerned with the one or 2 bad games. still plenty of time in the evaluation process so this could change drastically.

i think the highest brotles goes is the early 20s but at this stage his a low 1st high 2nd round grade..imo

It looks like Bortles and UCF could be playing Auburn in the Sugar Bowl. If Bortles plays well the secret will be out of the bottle. Bridgewater no doubt is a media darling and was propelled to a popular media anointment of being the future #1 pick. That all came about from his performance last year in the Sugar Bowl.

Bridgewater is not playing in the Sugar Bowl this year because Bortles and UCF beat Bridgewater and Louisville in Louisville. Remember this time last year not many knew about Teddy Bridgewater. It was only after his Sugar Bowl appearance did he become a household name. Regardless of the fact that Florida played a much worse game than Bridgewater played a good game. Bridgewater did play a very good game but Florida played a worse game.

bah007
11-29-2013, 03:44 PM
It looks like Bortles and UCF could be playing Auburn in the Sugar Bowl. If Bortles plays well the secret will be out of the bottle. Bridgewater no doubt is a media darling and was propelled to a popular media anointment of being the future #1 pick. That all came about from his performance last year in the Sugar Bowl.

Bridgewater is not playing in the Sugar Bowl this year because Bortles and UCF beat Bridgewater and Louisville in Louisville. Remember this time last year not many knew about Teddy Bridgewater. It was only after his Sugar Bowl appearance did he become a household name. Regardless of the fact that Florida played a much worse game than Bridgewater played a good game. Bridgewater did play a very good game but Florida played a worse game.

Disagree about Bridgewater. I agree that Florida was not very good in that Sugar Bowl, but Bridgewater had been on the map ever since the second or third game of the season when he torched a North Carolina team that had plenty of NFL talent on defense.

Now granted, the casual fan didn't know much about him, but people who pay attention to the draft have had this guy on the radar for awhile.

stingray
11-29-2013, 03:50 PM
Everybody has talked about how Manziel looked terrible against LSU. But nobody is commenting on Mettenbergers performance today against Arkansas so far today. He has played terrible. Turning the ball over and consistently overthrowing his recievers.

bah007
11-29-2013, 03:52 PM
Everybody has talked about how Manziel looked terrible against LSU. But nobody is commenting on Mettenbergers performance today against Arkansas so far today. He has played terrible. Turning the ball over and consistently overthrowing his recievers.

Mettenberger isn't that great. If he was the same size as the other guys he would have a 3rd round grade. Looks like Byron Leftwich to me.

stingray
11-29-2013, 03:54 PM
Mettenberger isn't that great. If he was the same size as the other guys he would have a 3rd round grade. Looks like Byron Leftwich to me.

Yeah, he doesn't look good at all. Mind you, it's just one game but I am not impressed.

bah007
11-29-2013, 04:04 PM
Yeah, he doesn't look good at all. Mind you, it's just one game but I am not impressed.

He has improved tremendously from last year to this year and that gives me hope, but he is very overrated because of his size. When he is good he is good, but when he is bad.....it's really bad.

steelbtexan
11-29-2013, 05:02 PM
Down goes Mettenberger.

Looks like there are going to be some very good QB's coming off knee injuries in rds 3/5.

Murray/Mettenberger

Texian
11-29-2013, 05:15 PM
Down goes Mettenberger.

Looks like there are going to be some very good QB's coming off knee injuries in rds 3/5.

Murray/Mettenberger

Ruh Roh! He's not suppose to get hurt, he's BIG, TALL and a POCKET PASSER. Or as I like to say, all QBs get hurt unless your name is Bret Farve. BIG TALL POCKET PASSERS who don't RUN don't get hurt is a MYTH. MYTHBUSTERS = TRUE

bhsman
11-29-2013, 05:20 PM
LSU fan here; not to absolve Mett of his issues this year, but his line has been inconsistent as all hell this year. Him fumbling and being injured doesn't surprise me. :(

steelbtexan
11-29-2013, 05:43 PM
LSU fan here; not to absolve Mett of his issues this year, but his line has been inconsistent as all hell this year. Him fumbling and being injured doesn't surprise me. :(

Yep, Mettenberger has taken a real beating. Tough guy though, hopefully it's just a sprained knee.

What do you think of LT Collins. He's rated 2-3rd rd. But I've seen him get overpowered far to often for my taste.

bhsman
11-29-2013, 05:54 PM
Yep, Mettenberger has taken a real beating. Tough guy though, hopefully it's just a sprained knee.

What do you think of LT Collins. He's rated 2-3rd rd. But I've seen him get overpowered far to often for my taste.

Has all the ability but needs to get more consistent; I'd like to see him come back for another year but he's otherwise good in the third-fourth.

infantrycak
11-29-2013, 05:55 PM
Ruh Roh! He's not suppose to get hurt, he's BIG, TALL and a POCKET PASSER. Or as I like to say, all QBs get hurt unless your name is Bret Farve. BIG TALL POCKET PASSERS who don't RUN don't get hurt is a MYTH. MYTHBUSTERS = TRUE

Sure it is. Nobody claims only running QBs get injured or that running QBs will always get hurt. The assertion which is born out by fact is running QBs, especially small ones, get hurt more.

Michael Vick has 1 season in which he played 16 games.

This season Vick, Terrell Pryor, EJ Manuel, Locker and Ponder have all lost time to injury.
Kaepernick, RG III and Newton are all running less.

You may like the only Brett Favre argument but it misses by a mile. You are treating Vick and Manning as if both have been injured and cancel each other out. Vick has 1 season in 11 without an injury. Manning has 16 seasons out of 17 without an injury. Brady has 11 seasons out of 12 as starter without an injury. Brees has not missed a game due to injury in 12 seasons as starter.

ArlingtonTexan
11-29-2013, 06:24 PM
Most young qb's struggle with how much smaller the NFL passing window gets from college. this, combined with other factors is why you see so many of them come in their 1st year and are either throwing picks by the boat loads or are holding onto the ball too long and taking so many sacks...They're waiting for that 2-5 yard window to open up on 1 of their WR's...which rarely happens.

Any decent NFL back up can come in & "do what they're told" by throwing it to guys running wide open by 2-5 yards like Mariota & McCarron largely have had to do. & from a qb's perspective, It's easy to be confident throwing the ball when you know you've got 2-5+ yards where you can miss. All of these prospects can do that.


When you're looking for a young talented qb in the draft, You want to see a guy who is confident & comfortable throwing in those NFL windows which are more often than not a half a yard - 1 yard max. Haven't seen much of that from Mariota or McCarron. Not saying they can't do it, but it's definitely gonna be an adjustment they're gonna struggle with. Mettenberger is the guy i've seen most consistently do that with relatively no issues...

I have seen somewhere (sorry can't specifically remember) that this is why the true top programs don't really produce the numbers of QBs that it seems like they should. guys from either smaller conferences or the middle to low end of the better conferences have to deal with more pressure and smaller windows because they don't have the surrounding talent to have WRs running wide open all the time and enough time to order pizza waiting for those guys to get open.

badboy
11-30-2013, 12:50 PM
LSU starting senior quarterback Zach Mettenberger is expected to return to action for the bowl game after injuring his left knee midway through the fourth quarter of the No. 15 Tigers' 31-27 victory over Arkansas Saturday at Tiger Stadium....

The left knee is the one Mettenberger has regularly worn a brace on for the last two seasons. He had to be helped off the field. Trainers worked on him on the bench as he grimaced in pain, but he later walked to the locker room. Mettenberger finished 14 of 22 for 156 yards with one interception. In the process, he went over 3,000 yards for the season, finishing with 3,082 yards. He became just the third 3,000-yard passer in LSU history behind Rohan Davey with 3,347 in 2001 and JaMarcus Russell with 3,129 in 2006.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2013/11/29/lsu-quarterback-zach-mettenberger-injured/3787803/

Playoffs
12-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Mettenberger and Murray with torn ACLs.

Mariota returning to school.

bhsman
12-04-2013, 12:41 PM
Mettenberger and Murray with torn ACLs.

Mariota returning to school.

As terrible as that injury is for those guys, if it means getting Mettenberger with a Day 3 pick, all the better.

bah007
12-04-2013, 01:12 PM
Mettenberger falls from late 1/early 2 to mid/late 2.

He's already not very mobile so ACL doesn't damage his stock much at all.

bhsman
12-04-2013, 01:15 PM
Mettenberger falls from late 1/early 2 to mid/late 2.

He's already not very mobile so ACL doesn't damage his stock much at all.

Yeah, same with Murray (who was mobile but still more of a pocket passer). If this had happened to Mariota, his stock would plummet.

bah007
12-04-2013, 01:18 PM
Yeah, same with Murray (who was mobile but still more of a pocket passer). If this had happened to Mariota, his stock would plummet.

Agree with this big time. That knee injury he suffered late in the season may have actually scared him into going back for his junior year. He needs to round out the rest of his game.

Texian
12-04-2013, 01:20 PM
I am not convinced Mettenberger and Murray plummet. In a ways this is a positive, eliminates the rush to start them immediately. Offers a legitimate out for team to bring along QB slowly. Those QB who spend a year learning their trade usually do better. I would not be surprised if Mettenberger went 8-15 and Murray 20-32.

leebigeztx
12-04-2013, 01:38 PM
I am not convinced Mettenberger and Murray plummet. In a ways this is a positive, eliminates the rush to start them immediately. Offers a legitimate out for team to bring along QB slowly. Those QB who spend a year learning their trade usually do better. I would not be surprised if Mettenberger went 8-15 and Murray 20-32.


Anytime mobility is affected,it does reflect on player draft. Mettenburger had questionable mobility and people questioned murrays arm talent. With ach injuries and not being able to throw period,both will fall a round. Especially since both were problably gonna be lower tier of rd picks. ?ettenburger would've been late 1st maybe and murray 2n maybe even 3. With a horse like boyd stting there who would've been late 1st early 2nd,he will probably elevate to mid 1st and the other hurt guys will fall. If both had undenyable talent,then yeah,I could see the staying solid,but the don't.

Texian
12-04-2013, 02:30 PM
Anytime mobility is affected,it does reflect on player draft. Mettenburger had questionable mobility and people questioned murrays arm talent. With ach injuries and not being able to throw period,both will fall a round. Especially since both were problably gonna be lower tier of rd picks. SAYS WHO??ettenburger would've been late 1st maybe and murray 2n maybe even 3. With a horse like boyd stting there who would've been late 1st early 2nd,he will probably elevate to mid 1st and the other hurt guys will fall. If both had undenyable talent,then yeah,I could see the staying solid,but the don't.

As to your comments about mobility and it's detriments on a player being drafted, I offer the names of two of the most immobile QBs in the NFL, Ben Rothlesberger and Joe Flacco. Where were they drafted and how do they relate to my suggestion regarding Mettenberger's prospective draft position?

WolverineFan
12-04-2013, 05:22 PM
As to your comments about mobility and it's detriments on a player being drafted, I offer the names of two of the most immobile QBs in the NFL, Ben Rothlesberger and Joe Flacco. Where were they drafted and how do they relate to my suggestion regarding Mettenberger's prospective draft position?

I'm not sure I would classify Roethlisberger as immobile. He's no burner in the open field and he's gotten slower with age, but he's been one of the most elusive guys in the pocket in the NFL for years.

Texian
12-04-2013, 07:54 PM
I'm not sure I would classify Roethlisberger as immobile.

I do, Top 5 Immobile NFL QBs. Being hard to knock down doesn't mean you're mobile.

But to save an Argument, I agree, Mettenberger has Rothlesberger's mobility, or lack thereof.

WolverineFan
12-04-2013, 08:34 PM
I do, Top 5 Immobile NFL QBs. Being hard to knock down doesn't mean you're mobile.

But to save an Argument, I agree, Mettenberger has Rothlesberger's mobility, or lack thereof.

If we're talking about now then I agree. He's lost tons of mobility over the years. But when he came into the league he was not exactly an immobile guy.

leebigeztx
12-05-2013, 02:48 AM
As to your comments about mobility and it's detriments on a player being drafted, I offer the names of two of the most immobile QBs in the NFL, Ben Rothlesberger and Joe Flacco. Where were they drafted and how do they relate to my suggestion regarding Mettenberger's prospective draft position?


No one ever called big ben and flacco immobile. In fact both are very mobile especially for guys their size. Flacco during the playoffs had some critical runs for 1st dows. Big ben uses his mobility to make big plays. Maybe you don't understand mobility.

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 03:17 AM
No one ever called big ben and flacco immobile. In fact both are very mobile especially for guys their size. Flacco during the playoffs had some critical runs for 1st dows. Big ben uses his mobility to make big plays. Maybe you don't understand mobility.

Y'all may be having a semantic problem.

I have never heard/seen anyone mention Flacco one way or another. That's about where my observation would put him - neither good nor bad enough to mention.

Big Ben is frequently lauded for his mobility in the context of ability to evade pass rush. This is the first time I have heard anyone describe him as immobile.

Mr teX
12-05-2013, 07:45 AM
I don't consider Big Ben or Flacco mobile or immobile...just average for a qb in terms of escapability purely based of speed & quickness. The only reason ben can get out of some of the crap he gets out of is b/c he's big as hell for a qb. Mettenberger is at least as mobile as those guys with ben's stature. They use that stature differently though.

Texian
12-05-2013, 10:54 AM
When I discuss Roethlisberger and Flacco mobility I do so in terms of when plays break down are they going to take off and run for a 1st down? Usually not. Can they? Yes. Is it pretty? No. Is it painful? Sometimes. When the team is in the Red Zone are they going to take off and run for 12-18 yd TD? Probably not. Can they? Sure. Will they? Very doubtful.

When compared to Manuel, Tannehill, Vick, RGIII, Luck, Keenum, Locker, Bradford, Wilson, Kaepernick, Pryor, Ryan, Brees, Cutler, Ponder, Rodgers, Stafford, Newton, Romo, Smith, etc are Roethlisberger and Flacco in that mobility class? Not IMHO

IMHO a good pocket presence is the ability to step up in to the pocket or side step a rusher but I don't necessarily consider that as being mobile. I consider that as having a good pocket presence and not to be confused with being extremely mobile.

When I watch Roethlisberger and Flacco today, the last thing I think is, now there is a mobile QB.

infantrycak
12-05-2013, 11:38 AM
IMHO a good pocket presence is the ability to step up in to the pocket or side step a rusher but I don't necessarily consider that as being mobile. I consider that as having a good pocket presence and not to be confused with being extremely mobile.

I suspected that was the distinction you were going to make. I think you sell Big Ben short here. Manning has great pocket presence for very effective movement in small space of only 1-3 steps while being one of the more immobile QBs around. Big Ben's goes beyond a slide here and there. He spins, dances, ducks and evades in a much broader area frequently setting up multiple times before finally making his pass. As you say he is not downfield mobile but he is very behind the LOS mobile and it goes well beyond pocket presence.

Dutchrudder
12-05-2013, 03:42 PM
Big Ben's mobility is mostly cleverness, not athleticism. He's a big dude who knows he's tough to bring down. He can side step arm tackles pretty well and avoid the big hit sometimes, but he's not running for 1st downs, he's just bouncing around the pocket looking for an open man.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/650/854/RoethlisbergerScramble_original.gif?1355705609

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2013/10/benscramble.gif

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/de44f1.gif

And he can punt too!

http://i1.wp.com/cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/benpooch.gif?resize=550%2C309

Wolf6151
12-05-2013, 04:54 PM
Mettenberger and Murray with torn ACLs.

Mariota returning to school.

It means the cost of that #1 overall pick, if someone wants to trade up with us, just got alot more expensive.

badboy
12-05-2013, 05:05 PM
It means the cost of that #1 overall pick, if someone wants to trade up with us, just got alot more expensive.

I am liking my trade with Cleveland even more as we can now ask for both firsts and both thirds. sweet! :clap:

Exascor
12-05-2013, 07:05 PM
JUST SAY NO TO TEDDY CROSSDRESSER:

http://www.straitpinkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/TEDDY-GIRL.png

I dont even need to see his 40 time, wonderlic, or 40 time. Go Manziel, clowney, Murray, or McCarron.

We've been through enough with Carr and Schaub. I dont think the fanbase can deal with a cross dressing QB bust.

Bridgewater = kerry rhodes.

DO NOT WANT.

Really no need to spam this in 3 threads Mr Bill.

aussie_texan
12-05-2013, 07:09 PM
I am liking my trade with Cleveland even more as we can now ask for both firsts and both thirds. sweet! :clap:

rams could be an option as well. a lot of rumours floating around that the rams may go after a QB this draft

Wolf6151
12-06-2013, 04:09 AM
I am liking my trade with Cleveland even more as we can now ask for both firsts and both thirds. sweet! :clap:

That would only be a starting point for a trade, I want more than that for #1 overall. Add next years 1st and 2nd as well so that we have ammo for a trade up in a better QB draft.

Dutchrudder
12-06-2013, 12:40 PM
rams could be an option as well. a lot of rumours floating around that the rams may go after a QB this draft

Yep, been thinking about that. If the Redskins keep sucking, the Rams will have the #2 or #3 pick in the draft, plus their own, which will be in the teens somewhere, plus the Redskins 1st next year. They have a lot of ammo to move up for someone like Bridgewater.

Suppose the Rams get the #2 pick from the Redskins, what would you need to move down 1 spot? If you knew they were taking Bridgewater, would you move back 1 spot for a 2nd? I'd hope there are more offers out there to drive up the value to that mid-1st round pick, but it might not be there. Should be interesting.

htownfan32
12-06-2013, 03:28 PM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/12/06/teddy-bridgewater-touchdown-against-cincy.gif

WolverineFan
12-06-2013, 03:41 PM
Yep, been thinking about that. If the Redskins keep sucking, the Rams will have the #2 or #3 pick in the draft, plus their own, which will be in the teens somewhere, plus the Redskins 1st next year. They have a lot of ammo to move up for someone like Bridgewater.

This is their last pick from the Redskins. They swapped picks in 2012 and got 1st's in 2013 and 2014. They had Washington's #22 last year plus their own #16 (which they traded up to grab Tavon Austin). I think a lot of people get confused on this because the 2013 season is followed by the 2014 draft.

b0ng
12-06-2013, 03:46 PM
JUST SAY NO TO TEDDY CROSSDRESSER:

http://www.straitpinkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/TEDDY-GIRL.png

I dont even need to see his 40 time, wonderlic, or 40 time. Go Manziel, clowney, Murray, or McCarron.

We've been through enough with Carr and Schaub. I dont think the fanbase can deal with a cross dressing QB bust.

Bridgewater = kerry rhodes.

DO NOT WANT.

Man you are just like the worst poster right now. Congrats I guess

Marshall
12-06-2013, 05:08 PM
Yep, been thinking about that. If the Redskins keep sucking, the Rams will have the #2 or #3 pick in the draft, plus their own, which will be in the teens somewhere, plus the Redskins 1st next year. They have a lot of ammo to move up for someone like Bridgewater.

Suppose the Rams get the #2 pick from the Redskins, what would you need to move down 1 spot? If you knew they were taking Bridgewater, would you move back 1 spot for a 2nd? I'd hope there are more offers out there to drive up the value to that mid-1st round pick, but it might not be there. Should be interesting.

Strictly by the numbers, Moving down from 1 to 2 is worth 400 points. The Rams second round pick (47th overall) is worth 430 points. So with Minnesota, Cleveland and Oakland also looking for QBs, it certainly seems doable and assume Bridgewater is their choice.

I'd like to couple it with a trade down with Atlanta or Tampa Bay so we get a third second rounder and assuming Clowney is their choice, still leave us with either Barr or Matthews along with the extra picks.

I'm really liking those two more than the supposed two highest picks.

aussie_texan
12-06-2013, 08:50 PM
Yep, been thinking about that. If the Redskins keep sucking, the Rams will have the #2 or #3 pick in the draft, plus their own, which will be in the teens somewhere, plus the Redskins 1st next year. They have a lot of ammo to move up for someone like Bridgewater.

Suppose the Rams get the #2 pick from the Redskins, what would you need to move down 1 spot? If you knew they were taking Bridgewater, would you move back 1 spot for a 2nd? I'd hope there are more offers out there to drive up the value to that mid-1st round pick, but it might not be there. Should be interesting.

would be nice if we could get both firsts for the number 1.
and go after barr/clowney and mosley. that would solidify this defence for a long time. add in a CB in the 2 or 3 round and the defence will be a huge upgrade talent wise.

the good thing for us is that mariota went back and murray and mettenberger got injured so bridgewater is now the clear top QB unless someone falls in love with manziel. there are a few teams wanting a QB this year so we can just sell the first pick to the highest bidder which you would think could mean a team over paying for it

Playoffs
12-07-2013, 11:42 AM
I don't think there's a QB worthy of 1/1 this year. Just our luck.

We need to trade into a 1st next year, imo.

steelbtexan
12-07-2013, 01:01 PM
I don't think there's a QB worthy of 1/1 this year. Just our luck.

We need to trade into a 1st next year, imo.

^^^^
This

Instead of forcing a QB for 1-1 this yr.

VTexan
12-07-2013, 01:05 PM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/12/06/teddy-bridgewater-touchdown-against-cincy.gif

this play is ridiculous.