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Runner
11-25-2013, 12:20 AM
I am going to assume the Texans need to rebuild. Further, I am going to assume they make some changes in the coaching and maybe the front office before next season. Given that, how should the Texans rebuild this time?

Option 1:

Do it "the right way". Get about 6 wins next year, go 8-8 for a couple of non-losing seasons, reach the winning goal of 9-7, and then in year five win 11 or 12 games and make the play-offs.


Option 2:

Take the approach to try and turn it around next year and make some noise in the play-offs the year after that. This approach risks...well, I'm not sure it risks anything. I was never clear on that.


I'll go on the record for option 2. I'd like to see them improve quickly.

:stirpot:

CretorFrigg
11-25-2013, 12:22 AM
McNair bought into Kubiak's BS that it takes 5+ years to rebuild, which is clearly false. Look at the Chiefs.

Norg
11-25-2013, 12:26 AM
we need to rebuild in 2014 and get rdy for the SB in 2015 n Houston that should be our goal to make the SB that year and rebuilding next year will help us


We need to do a clean reset Fire everybody from the GM and front office down to the towel boy

Bring in a new regime in here

obvs they will overall the entire roster ...Bassically trimming the fat and get the CAP in the best situation its ever been in so in 2015 we can splurge in Free agents

and obvs our goal in 2014 will be to make the playoffs just to get EXP

houstonspartan
11-25-2013, 12:27 AM
McNair bought into Kubiak's BS that it takes 5+ years to rebuild, which is clearly false. Look at the Chief.

Yep. A lot of Texans fans bought into it as well. It's almost like living in a time warp: other teams are doing total re-builds in 3-4 years, and we trudge along in year 8 - still waiting.

The other problem is the Steelers. McNair really wants a franchise that stable. But, the Steelers having 3 coaches in 40 years is extremely rare and they have done it by hiring solid people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Norg
11-25-2013, 12:33 AM
Yeah bob wants so bad for us to model after the steelers and the packers to be consistent year n and year out but there is one problem the steelers don't go

2-14 or 6-10


and there lowest lately has been like 7-9 or 8-8

dream_team
11-25-2013, 12:35 AM
McNair bought into Kubiak's BS that it takes 5+ years to rebuild, which is clearly false. Look at the Chief.

I think the Chiefs are pretenders. They are a lot better than last year, but are still missing some pieces to be taken seriously as an annual contender.

dream_team
11-25-2013, 12:36 AM
Yeah bob wants so bad for us to model after the steelers and the packers to be consistent year n and year out but there is one problem the steelers don't go

2-14 or 6-10


and there lowest lately has been like 7-9 or 8-8

At least he has a good vision.

houstonspartan
11-25-2013, 12:42 AM
Yeah bob wants so bad for us to model after the steelers and the packers to be consistent year n and year out but there is one problem the steelers don't go

2-14 or 6-10


and there lowest lately has been like 7-9 or 8-8

Correct. Whenever the Steelers slip, Mike Tomlin sticks his foot up players butts, threatening jobs and reminding them about "what it means to be a Steeler."

That franchise has high standards and everyone there knows it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

acal21
11-25-2013, 12:43 AM
There is no reason to rebuild. Fire coach Kubiak, get healthy, and compete for a super bowl

I was one to believe in Kubiak... it does take time to rebuild but now he is showing me that he can't get it done as a coach

Playoffs
11-25-2013, 12:44 AM
It's a QB league.

We need one.

srrono
11-25-2013, 12:46 AM
Fire all coaching staff

JJ going into last year of deal need to lock him in a new contract
J.J. Watt 2014/15 3,575,540

cut or restructured
Johnathan Joseph 2014/15 11,250,000 2015/16 12,250,000
Owen Daniels 2014/15 6,250,000

Cut
Danieal Manning 2014/15 6,000,000
Matt Schaub 2014/15 14,500,000 2015/16 17,000,000
2016/17 19,000,000
Derek Newton 2014/15 660,064

FA
Antonio Smith is FA let go unless resign on the cheap
Wade Smith FA let go
Joe Mays FA ?
Greg Jones FA let go
Ben Tate FA let go
Earl Mitchell FA resign after test of market
Darryl Sharpton FA let go
Garrett Graham FA resign
Ryan Harris FA
Lestar Jean RFA
Bryan Braman RFA
Terrell McClain RFA
Elbert Mack UFA
Ricky Sapp ERFA
Deji Karim FA
Jeff Tarpinian FA
Josh Victorian ERFA

MEGA SWATT
11-25-2013, 12:47 AM
I think the Chiefs are pretenders. They are a lot better than last year, but are still missing some pieces to be taken seriously as an annual contender.

I keep hearing that, but they have Andy Reid. They're definitely what their record says they are.

I want the Texans to get back to being relevant and take the next step towards beating the top teams in the league rather than another decade of crap.

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 12:52 AM
I am going to assume the Texans need to rebuild. Further, I am going to assume they make some changes in the coaching and maybe the front office before next season. Given that, how should the Texans rebuild this time?

Option 1:

Do it "the right way". Get about 6 wins next year, go 8-8 for a couple of non-losing seasons, reach the winning goal of 9-7, and then in year five win 11 or 12 games and make the play-offs.


Option 2:

Take the approach to try and turn it around next year and make some noise in the play-offs the year after that. This approach risks...well, I'm not sure it risks anything. I was never clear on that.


I'll go on the record for option 2. I'd like to see them improve quickly.

:stirpot:

Depends on what you think of Keenum.

I would personaly clean house and do what previous regimes haven't done. Build the foundation OL/DL?ILB in this draft and if Keenum isn't the guy draft a QB in 2015.

BTW, This is an above avg draft at OL/DT/OLB.

Scooter
11-25-2013, 12:55 AM
I am going to assume the Texans need to rebuild. Further, I am going to assume they make some changes in the coaching and maybe the front office before next season. Given that, how should the Texans rebuild this time?

Option 1:

Do it "the right way". Get about 6 wins next year, go 8-8 for a couple of non-losing seasons, reach the winning goal of 9-7, and then in year five win 11 or 12 games and make the play-offs.


Option 2:

Take the approach to try and turn it around next year and make some noise in the play-offs the year after that. This approach risks...well, I'm not sure it risks anything. I was never clear on that.


I'll go on the record for option 2. I'd like to see them improve quickly.

:stirpot:

this is extremely disingenuous. we werent any other franchise, we were an expansion team. our best players were retiring jacksonville and jets castoffs and andre johnson. starting from square one, yeah it takes a few years. in 4 seasons we replaced all but 1 player. a new coaching staff wont have to go through that because of the slow motion process you and some others are griping about. andre, duane brown, brandon brooks, deandre hopkins, arian foster, tightends, jj watt, mercilus, cushing, kareem, joseph, manning, and swearinger. legit starters that our next coach will walk into, all but 2 being home grown. a new coach being able to use that talent and provide inspiration will be the reason behind any quick turnaround, not some magical "win now" approach.

Norg
11-25-2013, 01:07 AM
look at the teams who have won SB's the last few years for one only like a handful of QB these past few years have been winning SB's..... and the rest have just been watchin or getting beat in the SB


that's why I was so shocked when flacco won one because that's a new nam not named Brady manning big ben Rodgers and brees and all of those teams are obvs stable

so the bottom line is u gotta get a QB and that QB has to be A superstar ..then u build around him

Steelers Drafted big ben and have been stable

Pats drafted Brady Colts drafted Manning GB and Saints etc etc


its a roll of the dice IMO

Norg
11-25-2013, 01:12 AM
this is extremely disingenuous. we werent any other franchise, we were an expansion team. our best players were retiring jacksonville and jets castoffs and andre johnson. starting from square one, yeah it takes a few years. in 4 seasons we replaced all but 1 player. a new coaching staff wont have to go through that because of the slow motion process you and some others are griping about. andre, duane brown, brandon brooks, deandre hopkins, arian foster, tightends, jj watt, mercilus, cushing, kareem, joseph, manning, and swearinger. legit starters that our next coach will walk into, all but 2 being home grown. a new coach being able to use that talent and provide inspiration will be the reason behind any quick turnaround, not some magical "win now" approach.

nahh Rick smith and killed this team we have some good players yeah all teams do but we also have aging stars who u think are good but really aren't our core has failed Us and we need a new core

Wade smith,Chirs myers,RG,RT Schaub,yates,keenum, Foster ,FB,Andre ,Kevinwalter, Jocboy jones, have all failed

ST FAILED

don't even get me started on the DEF there is a lonnnngggg list

that's like 88% of the team that failed we need to rebuild

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 01:19 AM
It's a QB league.

We need one.

Agreed,

Are you willin to wait until 2015 to get a great QB? Or are you wanting to reach an get the next Sam Bradford?

Norg
11-25-2013, 01:23 AM
Agreed,

Are you willin to wait until 2015 to get a great QB? Or are you wanting to reach an get the next Sam Bradford?


I willing to wait no doubt lets build the Tenches intill we find our guy I say if hes not there next year

look every new regime there first year the get a PASS to do whatever

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 01:23 AM
this is extremely disingenuous. we werent any other franchise, we were an expansion team. our best players were retiring jacksonville and jets castoffs and andre johnson. starting from square one, yeah it takes a few years. in 4 seasons we replaced all but 1 player. a new coaching staff wont have to go through that because of the slow motion process you and some others are griping about. andre, duane brown, brandon brooks, deandre hopkins, arian foster, tightends, jj watt, mercilus, cushing, kareem, joseph, manning, and swearinger. legit starters that our next coach will walk into, all but 2 being home grown. a new coach being able to use that talent and provide inspiration will be the reason behind any quick turnaround, not some magical "win now" approach.

2-9

After 8 yrs?

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 01:26 AM
I willing to wait no doubt lets build the Tenches intill we find our guy I say if hes not there next year

look every new regime there first year the get a PASS to do whatever

I think I agree with you?

But I did drink at the game today?

Corrosion
11-25-2013, 01:39 AM
McNair bought into Kubiak's BS that it takes 5+ years to rebuild, which is clearly false. Look at the Chief.

The Chiefs had back to back seasons picking 1st and 11th .... then they added a former #1 overall pick at QB who has a record of 30-7 over the last three seasons.


I'd say they were the exception , not the rule .... Its not all that often teams make quality QB's available - The last two to move were Favre and Brees (You could throw Manning in the conversation but considering his health issues at the time , that was a highly questionable decision at the time).

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 01:55 AM
The Chiefs had back to back seasons picking 1st and 11th .... then they added a former #1 overall pick at QB who has a record of 30-7 over the last three seasons.


I'd say they were the exception , not the rule .... Its not all that often teams make quality QB's available - The last two to move were Favre and Brees (You could throw Manning in the conversation but considering his health issues at the time , that was a highly questionable decision at the time).

Some people wanted Schaub over Smith.

Discount those people as talent evaluators.

bhsman
11-25-2013, 01:59 AM
Posted this in the Kubiak thread, but how would you guys feel about Ray Horton? For reference, he was the secondary coach under Dick LeBeau with the Steelers and is the former defensive coordinator for the 2011-2012 Cardinals and is now the 2013 coordinator for the Browns. He runs a 3-4 so he wouldn't have to change the defense on a fundamental level, he has NFL experience as a defensive back and coach, and has coached a ton of really good secondary players like Paolumalu, Patrick Peterson, and most recently Joe Haden.

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 02:13 AM
We don't really need to "rebuild." That implies tearing the whole thing down and starting over from scratch at every position.

Fire Kubiak, fire Marciano, fire Rick Smith if you want, improve the offensive line at all costs, and work on bolstering the depth so when the inevitable injuries happen they're not as devastating as they have been the last few years. I mean, no amount of depth can cover what we've had to go through injury-wise in the last three years but the impact can be lessened a bit.

When healthy, we still have Arian Foster, Andre Johnson, Duane Brown, Owen Daniels, JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, Danieal Manning, and Kareem Jackson on this team. That's a whole helluva lot.

Scooter
11-25-2013, 02:16 AM
2-9

After 8 yrs?

not saying anything about our current state, we've peaked and unfortunately fallen off the other side of the cliff this season. to say that in 2006 we could've hired someone to get us straight to 13 wins however is asinine. we built this team as it should've been done, through the draft. because of that we do have talent on this team that hopefully a new coach could turn around right away.

harbaugh inherited a ton of early first round draftees. much like us, kansas city was nowhere near as bad as their record. the teams people like to point to for the quick turnarounds all have talent to build on. the texans didnt when we hired kubiak and his "slow" "do it the right way" approach.

infantrycak
11-25-2013, 02:24 AM
...the texans didnt when we hired kubiak and his "slow" "do it the right way" approach.

Agreed. Two years after a change, AJ will not be the only current Texan still on the team.

Corrosion
11-25-2013, 02:31 AM
Some people wanted Schaub over Smith.

Discount those people as talent evaluators.

I mentioned Smith before they extended Schaub ....Everyone said I was crazy. Wonder how Rick Smith feels about that $29.15m he gave Schaub now ?!

bhsman
11-25-2013, 02:32 AM
I mentioned Smith before they extended Schaub ....Everyone said I was crazy. Wonder how Rick Smith feels about that $29.15m he gave Schaub now ?!

Now that the guaranteed money is gone and it came before Flacco got signed to his mega-deal, I'd say pretty decent.

Corrosion
11-25-2013, 02:37 AM
Now that the guaranteed money is gone and it came before Flacco got signed to his mega-deal, I'd say pretty decent.

The guaranteed $$$ isn't gone. ~$10.5m of it will be on the cap next year , or possibly the next two years depending upon how they decide to designate his cut.



http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 02:39 AM
I mentioned Smith before they extended Schaub ....Everyone said I was crazy. Wonder how Rick Smith feels about that $29.15m he gave Schaub now ?!

The question should be does Rick feel as bad as you and I do?

Answer- doubtful

Does Gary? I believe he's a broken man,

I hate what he's having ro go thru, Although I would like his paycheck. LOL

Norg
11-25-2013, 02:55 AM
I would say we have a solid foundation and a solid team but solid teams don't linger around for 8 years and not even reach the AFC Champ game soild teams don't never get the #1 seed


solid teams don't get beat by 1-8 jags team at home


Solid teams don't lose week 1 to Mark shanchez a rookie QB first game ever


Solid teams don't get beat by Rookie first tme starter ever in the NFL MIke mcgleenen

Solid teams don't get blown out to the rams with there backup QB at home

SOlid teams don't pee there pants and get blown out in foxborro TWICE !!!! wait 3 times once with carr

solid teams don't get blown out at heniz field week 1

Solid teams don't pee there pants like every prime time game

sOLID TEAMS don't go like 16-3 with the COLTS



I can go on and on

leebigeztx
11-25-2013, 04:03 AM
Agreed,

Are you willin to wait until 2015 to get a great QB? Or are you wanting to reach an get the next Sam Bradford?


I hope you're not implying Bridgewater is anything like bradford are you? Maybe you're hurt because keenum ist the answer,but bridgewater is the best prospect since luck. So I dunno what you're implying. If the texans have the top pick,which it looks like they will,they take bridgewater and they're back at it. It will be the 1st time they have a guy who can do everything.

Norg
11-25-2013, 04:30 AM
either way the AFC south will have alooootttt of young QB's


all 4 teams

bhsman
11-25-2013, 04:37 AM
I hope you're not implying Bridgewater is anything like bradford are you? Maybe you're hurt because keenum ist the answer,but bridgewater is the best prospect since luck. So I dunno what you're implying. If the texans have the top pick,which it looks like they will,they take bridgewater and they're back at it. It will be the 1st time they have a guy who can do everything.

I'm not against a Bridgewater pick, especially if we have the first pick and the new coach (assuming Kubiak is let go) wants 'his guy', but I'm really hoping for Clowney at this point.

welsh texan
11-25-2013, 04:57 AM
We don't really need to "rebuild." That implies tearing the whole thing down and starting over from scratch at every position.

Fire Kubiak, fire Marciano, fire Rick Smith if you want, improve the offensive line at all costs, and work on bolstering the depth so when the inevitable injuries happen they're not as devastating as they have been the last few years. I mean, no amount of depth can cover what we've had to go through injury-wise in the last three years but the impact can be lessened a bit.

When healthy, we still have Arian Foster, Andre Johnson, Duane Brown, Owen Daniels, JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, Danieal Manning, and Kareem Jackson on this team. That's a whole helluva lot.

I'm sorry but I disagree. Our coaches did not have the backups ready to perform. You want to say injuries were bad the last three years? The only thing that was bad was the coaching, going into a season playing 3-4 with only one starting calibre ilb? That's bad, real bad. Manning got injured? You've had Keo around for years, coach him up or replace him.

Schaub gets a career ending injury 3 years ago? Why did you resign him and still hobble him out there?

Who else has been injured really? And why are all our 2nd and 3rd round picks inadequate depth?

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 05:54 AM
What exactly are you disagreeing with? The depth was bad because the talent and coaching was bad.

We've had an insane, unfathomable amount of injuries over the last three years. Do I really have to make the list for you?

leebigeztx
11-25-2013, 06:03 AM
What exactly are you disagreeing with? The depth was bad because the talent and coaching was bad.

We've had an insane, unfathomable amount of injuries over the last three years. Do I really have to make the list for you?


While ur making that list,go to the broncos and patriots and make a list too.I'm pretty sure they've lost as many if not more probowl/high caliber ball players as the texans have. While you're at it,go look at the gb packers superbowl team that had 15 players on ir.

EllisUnit
11-25-2013, 06:11 AM
I am going to assume the Texans need to rebuild. Further, I am going to assume they make some changes in the coaching and maybe the front office before next season. Given that, how should the Texans rebuild this time?

Option 1:

Do it "the right way". Get about 6 wins next year, go 8-8 for a couple of non-losing seasons, reach the winning goal of 9-7, and then in year five win 11 or 12 games and make the play-offs.


Option 2:

Take the approach to try and turn it around next year and make some noise in the play-offs the year after that. This approach risks...well, I'm not sure it risks anything. I was never clear on that.


I'll go on the record for option 2. I'd like to see them improve quickly.

:stirpot:

In the new NFL it does not take 3-4 years to "rebuild". We see it season after season now. Look at the Seahawks, Colts, Chiefs those are just a few examples in the last 2 seasons. With a new coaching staff i BELIEVE this team with the current roster including the guys on IR could win a superbowl. This season will help us get a few more pieces to help. But i dont see a need for a full on gut/rebuild.

welsh texan
11-25-2013, 06:22 AM
While ur making that list,go to the broncos and patriots and make a list too.I'm pretty sure they've lost as many if not more probowl/high caliber ball players as the texans have. While you're at it,go look at the gb packers superbowl team that had 15 players on ir.

This is exactly what I'm getting at. It's an injury sport, that's why you have so many players in camp. It isn't as if when someone gets injured you might as well send me out there and try and get the most you can out of me. You have other professional players who you've put time into.

Injury is not an excuse over a 3 year period. It isn't an excuse over a one year period when you've had 8 years to put your roster together.

Sure Cushing going down 2 years running is bad, but why is it that street FAs are better than guys we've had around this team for 2 or 3 years? Is it really easier to perform when you've had a week or two with these fools coaching you than if you've had 2 years of their tuition?

It's all headed up by a QB guru who's had all 3 of his QBs regress markedly over the past 3 years. Keenum looked just like a Kubiak QB yesterday.

Why haven't they got a backup cornerback capable of handling the outside?

The packers have lost Rodgers FFs and you think we've got injury problems? What about the pats last year when we went to foxboro, they were jacked up all over the place and running 3rd stringers at many positions.

Yes there have been injuries. No it isn't an excuse for 2-9. If we were somewhere around .500, if the injuries had struck before the losing streak began, maybe you'd be able to say aww shucks better luck next time.

Unfortunately this Super Bowl favourite team is suddenly bottom of the pile. And don't try and pad out the injury stats with guys who've called time on a lost season either.

Dishman
11-25-2013, 07:40 AM
At least he has a good vision.

He has someone else's vision and hasn't been successful implementing it. Probably because he doesn't know any more about those two clubs than the typical fan.

Uncle Rico
11-25-2013, 08:05 AM
So the people who say wait on a QB are prepared to suffer through another 2-14 year to get one? If you have a top 3 pick and QB is a need you better snatch one. Contrary to popular belief you wont consistently find true game changers in later rounds, and this draft has guys who can be special in their own distinct ways.

Thorn
11-25-2013, 08:18 AM
I am always leery of players taken with the first two or three picks. Even so called solid QBs. In my opinion we clean house on the coaching staff, front office, GM, all of them. Bring in an entirely new regime and start the hell over again. Screw it. I want this bad taste in my mouth from the current staff to go away.

And let the new regime make the decisions on who to keep and give up on and what to do with the draft picks.

YeaLikeRightNow
11-25-2013, 09:26 AM
So the people who say wait on a QB are prepared to suffer through another 2-14 year to get one? If you have a top 3 pick and QB is a need you better snatch one. Contrary to popular belief you wont consistently find true game changers in later rounds, and this draft has guys who can be special in their own distinct ways.


But, but, but....isn't Kubes the "Quarterback Guru"?

He can lead us to the promised land with his talents of which Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels, David Carr became so successful with.

Just imagine how awesome Case Keenum will be with a full year of being under Kubiak's gifted wings. :bubbles:

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 10:50 AM
2-9

After 8 yrs?

Come on! That is the definition of disingenuous. They blew it this year, no doubt... But, the rebuilding was done and a talented team was put together in about 4 to 5 years. That team didn't get it done in 2011 or 2012. 2013 shows the players aren't responding to the system or coaches anymore and a change is needed.. But the rebuild was done and done well... Perhaps a little slow.

welsh texan
11-25-2013, 11:09 AM
Come on! That is the definition of disingenuous. They blew it this year, no doubt... But, the rebuilding was done and a talented team was put together in about 4 to 5 years. That team didn't get it done in 2011 or 2012. 2013 shows the players aren't responding to the system or coaches anymore and a change is needed.. But the rebuild was done and done well... Perhaps a little slow.

If it had been done well it would have lasted...and probably yielded winning seasons at a time when the likes of demeco, mario, od, Schaub, dunta Robinson even, were in their prime.

It wasn't done well at all, it was ham fisted and stuck at 8-8 until they rolled the dice on 2 big money FAs who put them over the top for a while.

It's a travesty how long it took them to address the running back situation, and the safety position, and the cornerback position for that matter. And that was because they weren't able to get the oline sorted for years.

It took them years to find consistency on the oline despite investing heavily via the draft, and you know what? It's been that time it takes them to luck into decent production from the oline that has been their undoing now.

They spend 2 picks a year on oline because they haven't got a clue how to coach the talent, they've been doing it since they got here and it slowed the time it took them to acquire the rest of the pieces on the team.

Insideop
11-25-2013, 11:09 AM
I have to agree with Scooter and others on here. The Texans won't have to go through a total rebuild like when Kubiak took over in 06. This team has way more talent on it now. The problem is with the cap and losing a lot of the talent and depth. Whoever the new regime is I think they can turn it around within a couple of years, if they make the right moves. So the real question is, who do the Texans hire as coach? And, will he make the right moves?

So, what coach is out there now that will make all the right moves? I know there must be a consensus pick for that new head coach that will make all the right moves. Let's hear it!

welsh texan
11-25-2013, 11:14 AM
I have to agree with Scooter and others on here. The Texans won't have to go through a total rebuild like when Kubiak took over in 06. This team has way more talent on it now. The problem is with the cap and losing a lot of the talent and depth. Whoever the new regime is I think they can turn it around within a couple of years, if they make the right moves. So the real question is, who do the Texans hire as coach? And, will he make the right moves?

So, what coach is out there now that will make all the right moves? I know there must be a consensus pick for that new head coach that will make all the right moves. Let's hear it!

I agree, and I'm hoping the rookie QB contract is taken advantage of by the fo. You save like 10mill or more by cutting Schaub the next two years, so use that money to sign a couple of short term guys who need to keep playing for their contract, and then when the likes of watt come up use it to resign him.

Rookie QB and some new pieces on the oline will likely yield another good pick next season giving us the opportunity to become stacked with top end talent once more very quickly.

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 11:15 AM
If it had been done well it would have lasted...and probably yielded winning seasons at a time when the likes of demeco, mario, od, Schaub, dunta Robinson even, were in their prime.

It wasn't done well at all, it was ham fisted and stuck at 8-8 until they rolled the dice on 2 big money FAs who put them over the top for a while.

It's a travesty how long it took them to address the running back situation, and the safety position, and the cornerback position for that matter. And that was because they weren't able to get the oline sorted for years.

It took them years to find consistency on the oline despite investing heavily via the draft, and you know what? It's been that time it takes them to luck into decent production from the oline that has been their undoing now.

They spend 2 picks a year on oline because they haven't got a clue how to coach the talent, they've been doing it since they got here and it slowed the time it took them to acquire the rest of the pieces on the team.


This is an awful season... It doesn't unmake the talent here. It just wasted an opportunity to take advantage of it. Teams have bad seasons sometimes because they just play poorly and coach poorly, or because injuries and frustration mounts... 2013 is one of those years, not unlike 2010.

HOU-TEX
11-25-2013, 11:30 AM
This is an awful season... It doesn't unmake the talent here. It just wasted an opportunity to take advantage of it. Teams have bad seasons sometimes because they just play poorly and coach poorly, or because injuries and frustration mounts... 2013 is one of those years, not unlike 2010.

Kinda tired hearing about all this talent we supposedly have. We have a decent core of players that has actually been depleted the past year or two. Where's this talent you speak of? AJ, Watt, DB, Cush (maybe) and then what?

Our scheme has been figured out on both sides of the ball and is now showing the LACK of talent on this team. This team needs to be Overhauled

Uncle Rico
11-25-2013, 11:51 AM
But, but, but....isn't Kubes the "Quarterback Guru"?

He can lead us to the promised land with his talents of which Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels, David Carr became so successful with.

Just imagine how awesome Case Keenum will be with a full year of being under Kubiak's gifted wings. :bubbles:

Nothing you can do to make a turd sandwich taste good.

No Joe Montana, Steve Young or John Elway to pad the resume here in town. Jake Plummer would have been the guy if Kubiak would have had his way but Arizona wasn't going to relinquish the rights.

Edit: or was it Tampa that had the rights. Doesn't matter I guess.

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 12:06 PM
This is an awful season... It doesn't unmake the talent here. It just wasted an opportunity to take advantage of it. Teams have bad seasons sometimes because they just play poorly and coach poorly, or because injuries and frustration mounts... 2013 is one of those years, not unlike 2010.

We just disagree on how talented this team is. That is all.

PM me and I will give you my address so you can mail me my $$$$$.

Double Barrel
11-25-2013, 12:50 PM
When I think rebuild, I think it comes in different forms.

I do not think a rebuild has to jettison the obvious talent on the team. Those are building blocks. Brown, Watt, WRs, Cushing, Swearinger, etc., you obviously keep those guys.

But rebuild, to me, is an entire new coaching staff. Rebuild the types of offensive and defensive schemes. And don't take 5 years to do it. I don't have the attention span. ;)

htownfan32
11-25-2013, 01:01 PM
When I think rebuild, I think it comes in different forms.

I do not think a rebuild has to jettison the obvious talent on the team. Those are building blocks. Brown, Watt, WRs, Cushing, Swearinger, etc., you obviously keep those guys.

But rebuild, to me, is an entire new coaching staff. Rebuild the types of offensive and defensive schemes. And don't take 5 years to do it. I don't have the attention span. ;)

We've seen teams turn it around in a year or two and the missing ingredient has always been either a new coach or a new QB. Take a look at the Seahawks, the Chiefs, the Chargers this season, etc. I can go on. The Colts are an example right here in our own division.

I don't wanna roll the dice on a QB next season. This next season next season stuff is the way we end up with a crappy pick and a QB we really don't want. We can take looks at Winston/Petty/Hogan but who's to say they won't all take the Matt Barkley route from here on? We have some close-to-sure things here. I'm all aboard the Teddy Bridgewater train as long as we're gunning for the #1 overall pick.

I know SteelB and others have been pulling hard for an O-line/LB draft and while it's certainly a good idea take a look at last year's Colts. They are still a mediocre overall team but look what their QB does for them. I'm not saying Bridgewater is Luck, but he certainly is Luck-like. He's still an enticing, fantastic prospect and I think he can be the face of this franchise for the next 10+ years. We can nab a good O-line prospect in the 2nd or 3rd if this draft is truly as deep as it has been claimed to be. We can nab a good ILB2 in the second/third as well. But a QB... if we end up with pick #1, and unless Keenum suddenly switches a light on in his head and starts making some progress, we should go with a QB. When you can put a face on your franchise for the next decade, you do it. If our FO thinks Bridgewater is the guy, they better do it.

mussop
11-25-2013, 01:04 PM
Some people wanted Schaub over Smith.

Discount those people as talent evaluators.

Yep. Someone should bring up the old Schaub vs Smith debates. There were a lot of people here that were suggesting that Schaub was the better QB.

Mr teX
11-25-2013, 01:13 PM
Yep. Someone should bring up the old Schaub vs Smith debates. There were a lot of people here that were suggesting that Schaub was the better QB.

up to that point he was...or he was at least even with him. Just like most thought Kaepernick was gonna be the 2nd coming of Randall Cunningham. Things change. Schaub sucks, & Kaepernick still has not progressed much more as a passer...& smith is still at best an above average game manager. The team has lost 2 straight since he hasn't been able to rely on that defense & it'll be interesting to see what he does if Houston & Hali miss any significant time & he can no longer rely on the defense...

b0ng
11-25-2013, 01:14 PM
Ooooh a rebuilding thread. This is how I would rebuild the Texans for maximum hilarity:

Dom Capers is more than likely going to be fired from GB in the offseason. Bam. Head Coach Dom Capers. Derek Carr is a QB who might be coming out in the 2014 NFL Draft. Bam! Derek Carr first round QB.

Let freedom ring.

mussop
11-25-2013, 01:20 PM
So the people who say wait on a QB are prepared to suffer through another 2-14 year to get one? If you have a top 3 pick and QB is a need you better snatch one. Contrary to popular belief you wont consistently find true game changers in later rounds, and this draft has guys who can be special in their own distinct ways.

This!!!! Plus you never know what could happen "NEXT YEAR". Anything could happen. One of the top QB's could decide to return to school for another year, one goes to jail, one has a turd of a season and one tears an ACL. then what? There you are again, waiting till next year.

These QB's aren't flawless for sure but if you are waiting for the next Luck you could be waiting for a long long time.

mussop
11-25-2013, 01:38 PM
Some people wanted Schaub over Smith.

Discount those people as talent evaluators.

Didn't realize I was the one who started that thread. :).


http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97244&highlight=Smith+Schaub

WolverineFan
11-25-2013, 01:50 PM
Find a QB.

That's really the only answer.

The Pencil Neck
11-25-2013, 02:01 PM
I don't think this team is that far away from being dominant.

At THIS point, a new coach could come in here and do what Andy Reid did with the Chiefs this year. (Although it remains to be seen just how good or bad that Chiefs team really is.)

I'm one of the people who believed that this team needed several years to "turn it around." I still believe that when Smithiak took this team over, there were no quick fixes. There was simply not enough talent or enough players to do anything.

THIS team is different. Our biggest problem is at QB. If we get the right QB and a little discipline, we're winning lots of games.

With the New NFL, a rookie QB can come in and win. In previous times, that was not the case. With the right draft and the right coaches, we could be back in the playoffs next year. (Provided whatever coach/gm we bring in doesn't decide to blow everything up and start from scratch. Which could happen.)

NOTE: I do not think Case is the guy for the future.

mussop
11-25-2013, 02:02 PM
up to that point he was...or he was at least even with him. Just like most thought Kaepernick was gonna be the 2nd coming of Randall Cunningham. Things change. Schaub sucks, & Kaepernick still has not progressed much more as a passer...& smith is still at best an above average game manager. The team has lost 2 straight since he hasn't been able to rely on that defense & it'll be interesting to see what he does if Houston & Hali miss any significant time & he can no longer rely on the defense...

He scored 38 points in that last loss. He played great.

houstonspartan
11-25-2013, 02:11 PM
Come on! That is the definition of disingenuous. They blew it this year, no doubt... But, the rebuilding was done and a talented team was put together in about 4 to 5 years. That team didn't get it done in 2011 or 2012. 2013 shows the players aren't responding to the system or coaches anymore and a change is needed.. But the rebuild was done and done well... Perhaps a little slow.

Uh NO.

If the re-build had worked, it would have been sustainable. The idea behind "slow and steady" was that we were building a powerhouse franchise, along the likes of Green Bay, Pittsburg and New England.

In addition, the window was wide open for us to solidify the hold in our division, as well as the AFC. Both Indy and the Titans went through major changes, and we should have kept the pedal on the gas and build this thing into a major, formidible franchise.

We didn't.

The re-build failed.

gafftop
11-25-2013, 02:21 PM
Clean house.

GET RID OF GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A real GM doesn't make all the mistakes that put us here.
He replaces head coach back in 2010.
He doesn't extend MS.
He doesn't spend stupid money on Reed.

I still contend not trading Mario was the biggest mistake besides extending Kubiak. Even if only had got a couple of 3rd round draft choices we would have saved millions to use to keep our team together. There was no way we were going to keep Mario NO MATTER WHAT.

I see a lot of Mario in Clowney. Don't want him as first round draft choice.

infantrycak
11-25-2013, 02:22 PM
Uh NO.

If the re-build had worked, it would have been sustainable. The idea behind "slow and steady" was that we were building a powerhouse franchise, along the likes of Green Bay, Pittsburg and New England.

Two of those three teams may be sitting at home watching the playoffs just like the Texans this season. Powerhouse isn't something judged by 1 or 2 off years.

houstonspartan
11-25-2013, 02:25 PM
Two of those three teams may be sitting at home watching the playoffs just like the Texans this season. Powerhouse isn't something judged by 1 or 2 off years.

Correct. But I will take those teams multiple super bowl titles over our...wait, what have we done, again?

Wolf
11-25-2013, 02:27 PM
Well super bowl is 2017 in reliant. I am down for a hometown superbowl along with a threepete :kitten:

infantrycak
11-25-2013, 02:30 PM
Clean house.

GET RID OF GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A real GM doesn't make all the mistakes that put us here.
He replaces head coach back in 2010.
He doesn't extend MS.

To the best of our knowledge those were not Smith decisions. Even if McNair has a new GM conduct the HC search it doesn't mean he will cede those decisions to his sole discretion.

Correct. But I will take those teams multiple super bowl titles over our...wait, what have we done, again?

Well then don't look to them for the standard for success without looking at how they got there. Peripatetic change is not one of their hallmarks.

TexansFTW
11-25-2013, 02:48 PM
Great thread, so many different directions that I love.

1. A 1st round QB is a must (See 2-14 Colts become 11-5 Colts). They didn't wake up the next season and become a 10-6 team that Luck pushed over the top to a 11-5 record, that is still the same garbage 2-14 team BUT with Andrew Luck. If Luck was out the whole season they'd be 2-14 again. It's so weird every game Luck has an off night (it happens) the opposing teams run up the score. 40 from the Cards, 38 from the Rams, etc.

2. Rick Smith has to go along w/ Kubiak, Phillips, Dennison, and Marciano. Rick Smith is ultimately the one who should be held to the fire for 5 years of HORRIBLE draft picks. Any idiot can win in the first round, but a real GM doesn't fail in rounds 2-6 EVERY YEAR. I know you can say those are Kubiak's/Wade's hand picked selections, but it's ultimately the GM who is held to the fire for them, and I personally don't believe Smith has the power. I think he's a puppet for Kubiak.

3. As for the Schaub vs. Alex Smith debate. Get out of here yall talking like you knew something. You think Alex Smith would have succeeded AS A TEXAN? It's one thing to do it under a good, NOT predictable head coach like Andy Reid, but try that crap under Kubiak. Smith would have failed here JUST THE SAME. Isn't it weird that Case comes out looking strong with the deep ball, scrambling, and sick 'on the fly' moves and then after a few weeks as the starter under Kubiak looks EXACTLY like Matt Schaub? Run to the right where we are the worst in the NFL, Throw it away because it was a predictable poorly drawn up play that didn't have enough time to develop, 3rd and 7 - throw it to a TE 4 yards short of the chains, punt, repeat...

4. The rebuild failed. I like that we modeled it off of those power houses in question, but guess what those power houses did? Never looked like we do today.

CretorFrigg
11-25-2013, 02:48 PM
Two of those three teams may be sitting at home watching the playoffs just like the Texans this season. Powerhouse isn't something judged by 1 or 2 off years.

Well, then in that case, 10 season and only 2 playoff appearances. Seems pretty mediocre to me.

Uncle Rico
11-25-2013, 02:49 PM
Yep. Someone should bring up the old Schaub vs Smith debates. There were a lot of people here that were suggesting that Schaub was the better QB.

Probably the same people who swore up and down that Keenum was a better QB than Smith.

htownfan32
11-25-2013, 02:49 PM
Well, then in that case, 10 season and only 2 playoff appearances. Seems pretty mediocre to me.

We're an expansion team. Pittsburgh and Green Bay are not.

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 03:06 PM
While ur making that list,go to the broncos and patriots and make a list too.I'm pretty sure they've lost as many if not more probowl/high caliber ball players as the texans have. While you're at it,go look at the gb packers superbowl team that had 15 players on ir.

The Texans and Packers are EASILY the two most injury-riddled teams of the last two years. I haven't seen anything like either in all the time I've been watching pro sports.

Over the last three years, the Texans have lost (for an extended period of time) Matt Schaub, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Mike Breisel, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Mario Williams, Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, Danieal Manning, Kareem Jackson and I'm sure I'm forgetting more than a couple more.

You tell me whether the Broncos or Patriots have lost THAT many players and THAT MANY high-quality, integral players. Go ahead. Tell me.


Nobody is saying it's an excuse for poor depth or poor coaching, people. Stop putting words into people's mouths. You know, simply mentioning something is NOT using that something as an excuse. I hope you people realize that. In terms of these injuries, it's merely saying that sooner or later, that utopian fantasy of "next man up!" just doesn't happen. There isn't enough depth in the world to cover what we've had to go through and maintain the same success we would have otherwise. Frankly, it's a miracle we even made it to the AFC Divisional Round in 2011 and 2012.

TexansFight
11-25-2013, 03:12 PM
Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak should be fired this afternoon. I would hire Eric DeCosta tonight and have him get started on rebuilding this organization from top to bottom. Losers in the scouting department like Grier need to be fired as well. The only guy who should feel safe is Jamey Rootes. The business side is a well oiled machine and he brought the best burgers in H-town, Bernie's Burger Bus to Reliant.

DeCosta will have a head start on picking a coach and will have to assemble a new scouting department. With the new scouts, we need to pick the best QB available in the 1st, best OL in 2nd rd., 3rd-5th rd picks should be spent on LBers. New K signed in FA. Switch to a 4-3. That's my rebuild plan.

TexansFight
11-25-2013, 03:21 PM
Come on! That is the definition of disingenuous. They blew it this year, no doubt... But, the rebuilding was done and a talented team was put together in about 4 to 5 years. That team didn't get it done in 2011 or 2012. 2013 shows the players aren't responding to the system or coaches anymore and a change is needed.. But the rebuild was done and done well... Perhaps a little slow.

Wow, you are defending the indefensible. Are you trolling us or do you believe what you just wrote above?

houstonspartan
11-25-2013, 03:35 PM
Wow, you are defending the indefensible. Are you trolling us or do you believe what you just wrote above?

He's not a troll. He believes it, sadly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 04:00 PM
Wow, you are defending the indefensible. Are you trolling us or do you believe what you just wrote above?

There is not much controversial about the idea that the texans are a talented team that is underachieving this year... Most people associated with the NFL would agree with that, just not the Texan fans in the middle of a temper tantrum.

HOU-TEX
11-25-2013, 04:18 PM
There is not much controversial about the idea that the texans are a talented team that is underachieving this year... Most people associated with the NFL would agree with that, just not the Texan fans in the middle of a temper tantrum.

Feel free to make a list of all the talent

Thorn
11-25-2013, 04:24 PM
Some of us need to quit acting like this team is devoid of talent, because that isn't the case. Nor is it correct to say the team has enough talent to win a Super Bowl.

We're in that in-between stage that people can call it anything they like depending on which way the wind blows through the ears on their skull.

htownfan32
11-25-2013, 04:29 PM
How can you say we're a talentless team?

Duane Brown, Chris Myers, AJ, DeAndre (who has been off recently, but he's got talent), Foster on the offense.

DJ Swearinger, Jonathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson (don't say he's not a good #2, because he is), Danieal Manning, JJ Watt, Ninja, Cushing.

This is not a talentless team. It's a shallow team.

bhsman
11-25-2013, 04:36 PM
Feel free to make a list of all the talent

Andre Johnson
DeAndre Hopkins
DeVier Posey
Arian Foster
Owen Daniels
Chris Myers
Duane Brown
Brandon Brooks
JJ Watt
Antonio Smith
Whitney Mercilus
Brian Cushing
Danieal Manning
DJ Swearinger
Johnathan Joseph
Kareem Jackson
Shane Lechler

That's not a bad core of young talent to go with the veterans. I didn't count rookies on IR this year like Trevardo or Bonner, but they could come in and contribute as well.

It's a farce to say the team doesn't have talent when a lot of it has been injured this year. There's also the fact that Schaub falling apart physically (not his choice, I imagine) is what hurt us the most early on.

A solid draft combined with a weak strength of schedule could send us back above .500.

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 04:39 PM
Feel free to make a list of all the talent

It is a fools errand to attempt to justify individual talent in the midst of a season going this poorly... It is no different than trying to argue last year's team was devoid of talent at9-1...

All teams have holes. Some of the talent is playing poorly this year. I get it.

welsh texan
11-25-2013, 04:40 PM
The Texans and Packers are EASILY the two most injury-riddled teams of the last two years. I haven't seen anything like either in all the time I've been watching pro sports.

Over the last three years, the Texans have lost (for an extended period of time) Matt Schaub, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Mike Breisel, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Mario Williams, Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, Danieal Manning, Kareem Jackson and I'm sure I'm forgetting more than a couple more.

You tell me whether the Broncos or Patriots have lost THAT many players and THAT MANY high-quality, integral players. Go ahead. Tell me.


Nobody is saying it's an excuse for poor depth or poor coaching, people. Stop putting words into people's mouths. You know, simply mentioning something is NOT using that something as an excuse. I hope you people realize that. In terms of these injuries, it's merely saying that sooner or later, that utopian fantasy of "next man up!" just doesn't happen. There isn't enough depth in the world to cover what we've had to go through and maintain the same success we would have otherwise. Frankly, it's a miracle we even made it to the AFC Divisional Round in 2011 and 2012.

Yeah, I was a little worried we were going to see this padding it out to make your point. The majority of those players were out for a few weeks and returned in time for the playoffs or never got 'injured' until the season was in the books.

Of all the players you mention only very few got injured early enough and were missed by the team enough to effect our playoff tilt.

HOU-TEX
11-25-2013, 04:49 PM
How can you say we're a talentless team?

Duane Brown, Chris Myers, AJ, DeAndre (who has been off recently, but he's got talent), Foster on the offense.

DJ Swearinger, Jonathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson (don't say he's not a good #2, because he is), Danieal Manning, JJ Watt, Ninja, Cushing.

This is not a talentless team. It's a shallow team.

I don't think anyone's saying talentless. Not me anyways.

Sure, we have a small core of players that have talent, but some are making it sound as if we have the type of roster KC had before plugging in a decent HC.

I'll give you DB, AJ, Watt, Cush and maybe KJ. The rest can be argued, imo. Can Myers be good in any scheme that's not ZBS? I don't think so. JJo had one good season. Manning's average at best.

When I think of talent I think of players that have proved they can do it at this level and sustain. Swearinger and Hopkins haven't done much

I will say we are a lot better off than the last 2-14 campaign.

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 04:52 PM
Of all the players you mention only very few got injured early enough and were missed by the team enough to effect our playoff tilt.

That's ridiculous. Injuries matter no matter when they happen. Stop moving goalposts.

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 04:58 PM
To the best of our knowledge those were not Smith decisions. Even if McNair has a new GM conduct the HC search it doesn't mean he will cede those decisions to his sole discretion.



Well then don't look to them for the standard for success without looking at how they got there. Peripatetic change is not one of their hallmarks.

To your knowlege what is Rick's job?

Whatever his job is I'm sure he contributed greatly to the mess the team is currently in. If Rick was Gary's yes mab do you want somebody like that leading yet another Texans rebuild?

As for all of the we gotta get a QB pronto posters, Didn't you learn anything from the Carr debacle? Build the foundation 1st. Maybe I feel this way because there's something I dont like about Bridewater. McCarron in the 3rd represents more value than Bridgewater at #1 overall. They both have about the same arm strength and while Bridgewater is more mobile McCarron is more of a leader than Bridgewater. It's not like McCarron is immoble.

Corrosion
11-25-2013, 05:03 PM
As for all of the we gotta get a QB pronto posters, Didn't you learn anything from the Carr debacle? Build the foundation 1st. Maybe I feel this way because there's something I dont like about Bridewater. McCarron in the 3rd represents more value than Bridgewater at #1 overall. They both have about the same arm strength and while Bridgewater is more mobile McCarron is more of a leader than Bridgewater. It's not like McCarron is immoble.

Getting a QB now doesn't mean we have to throw him to the wolves. You can keep .... Schaub (or some other veteran) another year cutting him after next season with very little if any dead money.

welsh texan
11-25-2013, 05:12 PM
That's ridiculous. Injuries matter no matter when they happen. Stop moving goalposts.

So mike brisiel getting injured for like 4 weeks with the playoffs already pretty much sealed and coming back for the playoffs has the same effect as Aaron Rodgers getting injured halfway through the season?

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 05:41 PM
So mike brisiel getting injured for like 4 weeks with the playoffs already pretty much sealed and coming back for the playoffs has the same effect as Aaron Rodgers getting injured halfway through the season?

All injuries matter. Why would you pick Brisiel as the guy to make whatever point you're trying to make here? In 2011 we also lost Schaub, Andre, and Mario and others on TOP of Mike Brisiel being hurt.

Besides, you were the one who said that it doesn't matter so long as they're back for the playoffs. So if Rodgers comes back in one or two weeks and the Packers make it, will that make Rodgers' injury no big deal? Of course not. Because if Rodgers was healthy, maybe the Packers wouldn't be struggling now.

Also, if you wanna focus on Brisiel, if I recall correctly, he was out for the last 3 or 4 games of the 2011 season and I think we lost the final 3 games which probably negatively affected our playoff seeding so yeah, on top of all the other injuries, Brisiel might have mattered quite a bit. Considering, you know, our OL matters a lot and it's clearly awful now.

leebigeztx
11-25-2013, 05:53 PM
Yep. Someone should bring up the old Schaub vs Smith debates. There were a lot of people here that were suggesting that Schaub was the better QB.


Smith is a dud like schaub,just more mobile. A smith led team is 2-29 when his team gives up 24 pts or more. Alex smith is the same dude wo was terrible early in his career. The only change is the last 3 yrs he's had high end defenses. If he were on the texans,their record would be similar because he would've lost the 1st 2 games and maybe won 2 others,that's it.

TexansFTW
11-25-2013, 05:57 PM
To your knowlege what is Rick's job?

Whatever his job is I'm sure he contributed greatly to the mess the team is currently in. If Rick was Gary's yes mab do you want somebody like that leading yet another Texans rebuild?

As for all of the we gotta get a QB pronto posters, Didn't you learn anything from the Carr debacle? Build the foundation 1st. Maybe I feel this way because there's something I dont like about Bridewater. McCarron in the 3rd represents more value than Bridgewater at #1 overall. They both have about the same arm strength and while Bridgewater is more mobile McCarron is more of a leader than Bridgewater. It's not like McCarron is immoble.

I don't believe in McCarron. Guys that have the most ideal conditions in college scare me. 6 seconds in the pocket, play makers, rarely needs to throw over 30 times a game, amazing run game year in and year out. Defense that gets you the ball deep in opponents territory.

I like guys that have to work for it, that have garbage teams around them and still rise up when it matters like Bridgewater in the Bowl game against #3 Florida last year.

QB 1st, otherwise you will be building the 'foundation' forever. What about our foundation is missing anyways?

Top 5 WR - check
Top 5 RB - check
Top 5 DL - check
Top 5 LB - check (when healthy)
top 8 CB - check
2 top 15 OLine - check

Foundation is built bro. Time to strike is now. Andre's days are numbered and after MegaWatt signs his MegaDeal a whole lot of those other positions start becoming unchecked.

TexansFTW
11-25-2013, 05:59 PM
Smith is a dud like schaub,just more mobile. A smith led team is 2-29 when his team gives up 24 pts or more. Alex smith is the same dude wo was terrible early in his career. The only change is the last 3 yrs he's had high end defenses. If he were on the texans,their record would be similar because he would've lost the 1st 2 games and maybe won 2 others,that's it.

Well said. I bet Matt Schaub on the Chiefs this year could have had similar success and Alex Smith on the Texans would have had similar failures.

All about the coaches and the system. None of these 2 have the power to overcome the shortcomings of those 2 things.

leebigeztx
11-25-2013, 06:03 PM
The Texans and Packers are EASILY the two most injury-riddled teams of the last two years. I haven't seen anything like either in all the time I've been watching pro sports.

Over the last three years, the Texans have lost (for an extended period of time) Matt Schaub, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Mike Breisel, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Mario Williams, Brian Cushing, Jonathan Joseph, Danieal Manning, Kareem Jackson and I'm sure I'm forgetting more than a couple more.

You tell me whether the Broncos or Patriots have lost THAT many players and THAT MANY high-quality, integral players. Go ahead. Tell me.


Nobody is saying it's an excuse for poor depth or poor coaching, people. Stop putting words into people's mouths. You know, simply mentioning something is NOT using that something as an excuse. I hope you people realize that. In terms of these injuries, it's merely saying that sooner or later, that utopian fantasy of "next man up!" just doesn't happen. There isn't enough depth in the world to cover what we've had to go through and maintain the same success we would have otherwise. Frankly, it's a miracle we even made it to the AFC Divisional Round in 2011 and 2012.

Uh, I don't know if you're serious or not,but the patriots started the season minus their top 4 pass catchers. Then they lost wilfolk and and mayo for the season. Not to mention the other injuries. The broncos are playing with 3rd string center,2nd team lt and rt. Not to mention champ hasn't played,rahim moore is done for the season,drc is down again and tell me who is playing lb? Yeah,and miller missed 1st 6 games.

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 06:10 PM
Uh, I don't know if you're serious or not,but the patriots started the season minus their top 4 pass catchers. Then they lost wilfolk and and mayo for the season. Not to mention the other injuries. The broncos are playing with 3rd string center,2nd team lt and rt. Not to mention champ hasn't played,rahim moore is done for the season,drc is down again and tell me who is playing lb? Yeah,and miller missed 1st 6 games.

Yeah, it's been rough. Still hasn't been as rough as us and the Packers over the last 3 years.

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 06:11 PM
Smith is a dud like schaub,just more mobile. A smith led team is 2-29 when his team gives up 24 pts or more. Alex smith is the same dude wo was terrible early in his career. The only change is the last 3 yrs he's had high end defenses. If he were on the texans,their record would be similar because he would've lost the 1st 2 games and maybe won 2 others,that's it.

Lee,

I think I have seen you on record in support of bridgewater... If that doesn't happen, given the depth of this QB class, what are your thoughts about getting two guys to come and compete...

Maybe Hundley or Fales late in the 1st and then Murray, mccarron, or mettenberger in the 2nd or 3rd...

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 06:13 PM
Yeah, it's been rough. Still hasn't been as rough as us and the Packers over the last 3 years.

The Pats make schematic adjustments to hide limited players forced into the lineup, we don't do that on offense or defense.... That is the difference.

Well, we do some on offense but it is within too narrow of a scope, I think.

welsh texan
11-25-2013, 06:16 PM
All injuries matter. Why would you pick Brisiel as the guy to make whatever point you're trying to make here? In 2011 we also lost Schaub, Andre, and Mario and others on TOP of Mike Brisiel being hurt.

Besides, you were the one who said that it doesn't matter so long as they're back for the playoffs. So if Rodgers comes back in one or two weeks and the Packers make it, will that make Rodgers' injury no big deal? Of course not. Because if Rodgers was healthy, maybe the Packers wouldn't be struggling now.

Also, if you wanna focus on Brisiel, if I recall correctly, he was out for the last 3 or 4 games of the 2011 season and I think we lost the final 3 games which probably negatively affected our playoff seeding so yeah, on top of all the other injuries, Brisiel might have mattered quite a bit. Considering, you know, our OL matters a lot and it's clearly awful now.

In 2011 we had 3 starters on IR going into week 14. They were Schaub, Williams, Hartmann.

I'm unsure what point you are trying to argue here, if all injuries matter then across the board there are plenty of teams with much more players out than what we have this year, all of them have better records than we do.

I'm picking out Brisiel because I knew where you were taking this quite a while ago and am not willing to accept the excuse based on players who were out a few weeks after the playoffs were already clinched, that is not an injury that has a terrible effect on your season, it's not an excuse.

leebigeztx
11-25-2013, 06:17 PM
To your knowlege what is Rick's job?

Whatever his job is I'm sure he contributed greatly to the mess the team is currently in. If Rick was Gary's yes mab do you want somebody like that leading yet another Texans rebuild?

As for all of the we gotta get a QB pronto posters, Didn't you learn anything from the Carr debacle? Build the foundation 1st. Maybe I feel this way because there's something I dont like about Bridewater. McCarron in the 3rd represents more value than Bridgewater at #1 overall. They both have about the same arm strength and while Bridgewater is more mobile McCarron is more of a leader than Bridgewater. It's not like McCarron is immoble.


There isn't such a thing as value when you're talking franchise qb. I'm sure the dolphins thoought they were getting value with jake long at 1 and henne at 2. Guess what hapened with that? Ryan has been one of the winningest qbs since coming in,henne is a bum,and jake long is in st louis.

Even this early,the consensus is bridgewater is the best prospect regardless of position. If you're in position to draft the best prospect regardless of position and he happens to play the most important position in sports,there is no value other than drafting him. Carr was not the best prospect and it was debateable whether he was even the best qb. The owner stepped in and wanted a face of the franchise despite his shortcoming and as other have said poor foundation. Aj mccarron is nowhere in the same league as bridgewater. He's had all american,1st rd draft picks around him since he started just as the kid in with nj jets. He's had rbs,ol,dl,wr,dbs,etc and there is nothing I've seen to say he's anything other than a backup. He's not gonna have 6secs to read and make a play in the pros. So,stay on that train,in the nfl,your qb better be your best player or close to it or you're going nowhere.

GuerillaBlack
11-25-2013, 06:17 PM
Yeah, it's been rough. Still hasn't been as rough as us and the Packers over the last 3 years.

No it has been just as bad. Texans (and the fans apparently) just make the most excuses about it.

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 06:24 PM
No it has been just as bad. Texans (and the fans apparently) just make the most excuses about it.

Even if you think it's been as bad for the Patriots and Broncos as it has been for the Texans and Packers, which it hasn't, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do a pretty good job masking deficiencies.

And again, I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit either, because never once in this discussion have I used injuries as an "excuse" for the team's awful roster management and preparation for depth in catastrophic circumstances. In fact, that's probably the biggest problem I have with Kubiak, Smith, and the conditioning/training staff in general. One of these years you'd think they'd say "hey, we constantly get ****ed with injuries, maybe we should bolster the depth of the team for when those inevitable injuries occur" but I guess not.

leebigeztx
11-25-2013, 06:26 PM
Lee,

I think I have seen you on record in support of bridgewater... If that doesn't happen, given the depth of this QB class, what are your thoughts about getting two guys to come and compete...

Maybe Hundley or Fales late in the 1st and then Murray, mccarron, or mettenberger in the 2nd or 3rd...

If they dnt finish high enough to get bridgewater which I think they will finish with the wrse record,I would take clowney at 2 or 3,boyd with my 2nd rd pick,the tennessee nt in the 3rd. In terms of stacking the qb room, I would have case or tj,not both,and a young vet like tavaris jackson,josh mccown type.

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 06:48 PM
If they dnt finish high enough to get bridgewater which I think they will finish with the wrse record,I would take clowney at 2 or 3,boyd with my 2nd rd pick,the tennessee nt in the 3rd. In terms of stacking the qb room, I would have case or tj,not both,and a young vet like tavaris jackson,josh mccown type.

I don't watch a ton of college... But from what I have seen of Boyd, his mechanics are a little long and wild... You think he is an NFL QB? .. I like the idea of having a vet presence at QB, but I would like the competition also... Or, at least hedge my bet. Would you traded a 3rd round pick for Cousins?

welsh texan
11-25-2013, 07:00 PM
Even if you think it's been as bad for the Patriots and Broncos as it has been for the Texans and Packers, which it hasn't, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do a pretty good job masking deficiencies.

And again, I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit either, because never once in this discussion have I used injuries as an "excuse" for the team's awful roster management and preparation for depth in catastrophic circumstances. In fact, that's probably the biggest problem I have with Kubiak, Smith, and the conditioning/training staff in general. One of these years you'd think they'd say "hey, we constantly get ****ed with injuries, maybe we should bolster the depth of the team for when those inevitable injuries occur" but I guess not.

It's always a shame when the silly reading comprehension (a terrible bastardisation of the English language) insult is resorted to.

Listen, I'm saying when you lose a starter for several weeks you need to have a backup who can step up and hold the fort ready and capable. It should not be a big deal.

When you have a star player go out you should have guys who are capable of role playing to a level where you can mask the weaknesses.

Unfortunately on this team we are nowhere near being able to do that.

We don't have an outside corner on the roster to take over from Jackson, despite the fact we should already be looking for someone to render Joseph a cap casualty at some point, at no level of the organisation has it been addressed.

We've been allowing backups to leave without replacing them over the past couple of years, 3 years ago a few injuries didn't stop us going to the playoffs, for some reason the braintrust didn't realise that the only reason for that was hard work on the 2nd and 3rd string roster, they've simply fallen to sleep on that front.

We don't have quality depth at safety, cornerback, linebacker or dline anymore, previously we did, and it allowed us to get over a few little injuries for a few weeks here and there in addition to a couple of stars on IR.

Teams that are built well do this, this shows that we aren't built well. We can't scheme to cover for the weaknesses of our backups because the backups are way too far from being starter quality.

powda
11-25-2013, 07:34 PM
Draft #1:

Peppers was a certified freak of nature and everyone knew it...we passed on that for Carr because it was the "right" franchise decision. We know now how flawed that was.

I don't wanna pass on Clowney or an offensive lineman bound for the hall of fame because it's the "right" franchise direction. If new managment isn't 100% on a qb in this draft, hold your water.

Our offensive line has turned to manure and we have very little pass rush. Both of those areas can be fixed with our 1st pick. This is a heavy qb draft and we NEED a qb...but we don't have to repeat history by settling for the wrong guy again.

Thorn
11-25-2013, 07:38 PM
Draft #1:

Peppers was a certified freak of nature and everyone knew it...we passed on that for Carr because it was the "right" franchise decision. We know now how flawed that was.

I don't wanna pass on Clowney or an offensive lineman bound for the hall of fame because it's the "right" franchise direction. If new managment isn't 100% on a qb in this draft, hold your water.

Our offensive line has turned to manure and we have very little pass rush. Both of those areas can be fixed with our 1st pick. This is a heavy qb draft and we NEED a qb...but we don't have to repeat history by settling for the wrong guy again.

I'll second this emotion.

Number19
11-25-2013, 07:42 PM
this is extremely disingenuous. we werent any other franchise, we were an expansion team. our best players were retiring jacksonville and jets castoffs and andre johnson.Don't forget, we had a franchise QB taken #1 in the draft.

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 07:47 PM
It's always a shame when the silly reading comprehension (a terrible bastardisation of the English language) insult is resorted to.

Listen, I'm saying when you lose a starter for several weeks you need to have a backup who can step up and hold the fort ready and capable. It should not be a big deal.

When you have a star player go out you should have guys who are capable of role playing to a level where you can mask the weaknesses.

Unfortunately on this team we are nowhere near being able to do that.

We don't have an outside corner on the roster to take over from Jackson, despite the fact we should already be looking for someone to render Joseph a cap casualty at some point, at no level of the organisation has it been addressed.

We've been allowing backups to leave without replacing them over the past couple of years, 3 years ago a few injuries didn't stop us going to the playoffs, for some reason the braintrust didn't realise that the only reason for that was hard work on the 2nd and 3rd string roster, they've simply fallen to sleep on that front.

We don't have quality depth at safety, cornerback, linebacker or dline anymore, previously we did, and it allowed us to get over a few little injuries for a few weeks here and there in addition to a couple of stars on IR.

Teams that are built well do this, this shows that we aren't built well. We can't scheme to cover for the weaknesses of our backups because the backups are way too far from being starter quality.


And I haven't said anything different. I don't know why you're busting my balls on this. That's why I resorted to the reading comprehension comment. But the problem is that sometimes, losing starters IS a big deal. We can say "next man up!" all we want but the fact of the matter is that your starters are starters for a reason. Just like it's okay to criticize a ref for a horrible call or a horrible no-call, it is also okay to say that injuries can often be very big deals, especially when dealt with in large quantities.

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 07:53 PM
Draft #1:

Peppers was a certified freak of nature and everyone knew it...we passed on that for Carr because it was the "right" franchise decision. We know now how flawed that was.

I don't wanna pass on Clowney or an offensive lineman bound for the hall of fame because it's the "right" franchise direction. If new managment isn't 100% on a qb in this draft, hold your water.

Our offensive line has turned to manure and we have very little pass rush. Both of those areas can be fixed with our 1st pick. This is a heavy qb draft and we NEED a qb...but we don't have to repeat history by settling for the wrong guy again.

I wouldn't let history impact my current decision that way. In 2006, we took the pass rushing "freak" with mixed results. I simply want a thoughtful decision made based on the information in front of them.

Number19
11-25-2013, 08:01 PM
Come on! That is the definition of disingenuous. They blew it this year, no doubt... But, the rebuilding was done and a talented team was put together in about 4 to 5 years. That team didn't get it done in 2011 or 2012. 2013 shows the players aren't responding to the system or coaches anymore and a change is needed.. But the rebuild was done and done well... Perhaps a little slow.Nice, and accurate, observation.

powda
11-25-2013, 08:03 PM
I wouldn't let history impact my current decision that way. In 2006, we took the pass rushing "freak" with mixed results. I simply want a thoughtful decision made based on the information in front of them.

We could argue the merits of the mario pick but it would probably end in a stalemate and prove counter productive. You bring up a fair point.

Maybe the question we should be asking is:

Would you draft the safe prospect or the high risk/high reward player?

TheMatrix31
11-25-2013, 08:07 PM
It was Mario Williams, Vince Young, or Reggie Bush.

I don't see what the discussion is. We clearly made the right choice.

Surreal McCoy
11-25-2013, 08:19 PM
McNair bought into Kubiak's BS that it takes 5+ years to rebuild, which is clearly false. Look at the Chiefs.

Good point. Only took the Chiefs 50 years and 12 coaches to get there, but hey, you don't replace Hank Stram easily!

Runner
11-25-2013, 08:31 PM
Our offensive line has turned to manure and we have very little pass rush. Both of those areas can be fixed with our 1st pick.

That's exactly what we need! A throwback lineman that plays both ways...

... or did I misread something? :)

dalemurphy
11-25-2013, 08:40 PM
We could argue the merits of the mario pick but it would probably end in a stalemate and prove counter productive. You bring up a fair point.

Maybe the question we should be asking is:

Would you draft the safe prospect or the high risk/high reward player?

My point is that I don't want the organization to determine what position to draft based on previous wounds. Hopefully, they learned from the David Carr debacle but that should already be cooked into their scouting and decision-making process. The organization shouldn't look back to an event 12 years earlier and allow the those results to effect this year's decisions because their are some cirumstancial similarities.

Norg
11-25-2013, 10:09 PM
It was Mario Williams, Vince Young, or Reggie Bush.

I don't see what the discussion is. We clearly made the right choice.


naaa we made the wrong one shouldn't off took any of them


or should of took VY would have eff made the playoffs a lot more often that's 4 sure prob in 2005 and 06

Norg
11-25-2013, 10:11 PM
bottom line is people around here are scared to hit the reset button and go into full blown rebuild mode cuz they know it will be another 3 years of 8-8 type seasons

HJam72
11-25-2013, 10:37 PM
I still think this team has a lot more talent than the 2005 team that I do believe needed 5 years to rebuild....well, 4 anyway. Kubiak didn't suck at rebuilding it and making it good; he sucked at taking it all the way, and now that has caused the whole team to eventually crack under the pressure of offseason expectations. Kubiak's real problem is that he just can't beat Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, or a guy like Baltimore's what's-his-face in a good playoff run like last year's. The rest of it is just the team falling apart because they KNOW it.

The team does need a lot of replacements, but it's got a nucleus to build on. I think a new coach and GM could get us back to the playoffs in 2 years. This will probably require a high pick @ QB...

Uncle Rico
11-25-2013, 10:52 PM
Anyone think Brian Orakpo would give us a hometown discount next year? Local kid who will be a free agent, and hes looked good tonight.

steelbtexan
11-25-2013, 11:10 PM
Some of us need to quit acting like this team is devoid of talent, because that isn't the case. Nor is it correct to say the team has enough talent to win a Super Bowl.

We're in that in-between stage that people can call it anything they like depending on which way the wind blows through the ears on their skull.

you mean like 7-9, 9-7 talent Gary's famous for?

Injuries, all teams get hurt, but with the Texans med staff stinking again and Gary rushing Brown/Newton/Williams on the field before they had fully recovered from their injuries, it's no wonder that this teams record is what it is.

Now the team appears to have quit on Gary. This has a 2005 feel all over again.

badboy
11-25-2013, 11:13 PM
If they dnt finish high enough to get bridgewater which I think they will finish with the wrse record,I would take clowney at 2 or 3,boyd with my 2nd rd pick,the tennessee nt in the 3rd. In terms of stacking the qb room, I would have case or tj,not both,and a young vet like tavaris jackson,josh mccown type.What Nose has 85 tackles and 4 sacks? :evil:

chicagotexan2
11-25-2013, 11:41 PM
I really wish a team would be so gaga over a prospect that we could trade down a little and score extra draft picks. This team has so many needs.

Txn_in_FL
11-26-2013, 12:36 AM
We're an expansion team. Pittsburgh and Green Bay are not.

How much longer is this going to be an excuse? I guess the Browns, Jags and Panthers are also. Carolina is looking better right now and has been to the SB. The other two are not examples I would like to see emulated.

At some point excuses have to stop being made and people need to be held accountable. 8 years is a long time to be in charge and not really go any wear.

On that note, I'd like to request that upon Matt Schaub's departure, the number 8 should be stricken from the roster forever.

Texanmike02
11-26-2013, 12:44 AM
This team has some holes but it is not bereft of talent. They have been able to compete with teams. The problem with this team is they play down to the level of their competition and they completely lack discipline. That is a leadership problem. I have defended Kubiak until this year because I thought he was able to compete. I don't think he's a bad coach and I think he will be able to reflect on his mistakes after he is fired but at this point he is toxic here. It is time to move on to someone else. Personally I'm in favor of firing him now. I don't want Wade, hell go find a HS coach and give him the best 5 weeks of his life but get Gary gone. He will land on his feet.

Then start the search. Up and coming coordinators... college or pro... if you are going to stay with this system then maybe baby shabby is worth a look, if not... Brown, Meyers and Brooks can probably play in a different system. Then move to a 4-3. We don't have the NT for a true 3-4 but we have JJ Mitchell and Antonio that have the makings of a nice DL with Cushing as a Mike.. Will look more into it later but this could be turned around in an off season.

Mike

leebigeztx
11-26-2013, 02:34 AM
What Nose has 85 tackles and 4 sacks? :evil:

I can't ever think of the big tennessee kids name. Are those his stats? I wasn't looking at stats, I just look at his stoutness inside and how he moves inside. I watched him forklift guys in the backfield with straight power.

bckey
11-26-2013, 06:16 AM
The Shanahan/Kubiak version of the west coast offense is sick/dying and needs to be put to rest like old yeller. I personally am tired of a finesse offense especially when they get in the red zone. I want to see some power football and see our ol push some dl backwards on 3 and short or 4th and goal. On defense I don't care if they go 4-3 or stay 3-4 just stop somebody. Disguise some things and mix up the blitzes so the opposing teams don't know who is coming or from where. Build both sides of the ball around our good core players. Build from the trenches out. And can we finally get a fat boy in the middle of our DL?

We may want to think about trading AJ to a contending team next year. I personally want to see him succeed and retire happy. AJ has given everything here and deserves a chance at a superbowl before he retires. I am not sure this team can turn around quick enough for that to happen here. The rest of the players are young enough to continue building with. I'm not saying this team can't turn around quickly. I'm just saying a new coach and gm will need to weigh their options. For sure Schaub needs to go.

leebigeztx
11-26-2013, 07:31 AM
The Shanahan/Kubiak version of the west coast offense is sick/dying and needs to be put to rest like old yeller. I personally am tired of a finesse offense especially when they get in the red zone. I want to see some power football and see our ol push some dl backwards on 3 and short or 4th and goal. On defense I don't care if they go 4-3 or stay 3-4 just stop somebody. Disguise some things and mix up the blitzes so the opposing teams don't know who is coming or from where. Build both sides of the ball around our good core players. Build from the trenches out. And can we finally get a fat boy in the middle of our DL?

We may want to think about trading AJ to a contending team next year. I personally want to see him succeed and retire happy. AJ has given everything here and deserves a chance at a superbowl before he retires. I am not sure this team can turn around quick enough for that to happen here. The rest of the players are young enough to continue building with. I'm not saying this team can't turn around quickly. I'm just saying a new coach and gm will need to weigh their options. For sure Schaub needs to go.

I agree with some of what u say,but I would like to dispute a few things. In terms of the shannahan/kubiak offense being dead,I disagree. I say this all the time,think players not plays. The plays are the same,they're just called different names. The execution with the personell is why both teams are struggling. Rg3 and the meltdown of schaub along with some missing players required to run the offense is the problem. You can say its a finesse offense,but its the same offense in which foster scored 16 rushing tds. A lot of those tds came inside the 5 also. Does that mean the same finesse offense can't score or move in short space or is it foster has great vision and can find little creases? Green Bay runs a version of this offense,but in the passing game they have better players minus andre. imagine the texans with dez bryant opposite of andre and a vertcal threat who can run at te like graham,cameron jordan,or even martelius bennett. We wouldn't have these discussions.

In terms of trading andre,I wouldn't do it. As much as I would like to see him win a ring,that's not a requirement for a player. If the texans keep sucking and they take a qb,what better way to get the new qb ready? Wayne was a free agent and they kept him to help develop luck. The same was done with cam and steve smith. Not to mention,andre probably doesn't want to go anywhere anyway. I do agree about the big guy in the middle. Not just a big guy,but a big guy who can play.

welsh texan
11-26-2013, 07:32 AM
I can't help but feel that we are better suited to a 4-3 than a 3-4.

I mean, we need an NT, at least 1 ilb (possibly 2) and 2 ilbs as it stands.

If we go back to 4-3, we still need NT, Mitchell can play DT, move Cush back to olb giving him less responsibility for ranging the entire field to save his knee some, reed can play the other ilb, and draft one ilb (or trade for demeco to return?)

Suddenly you only have a glaring need at 2 positions instead of like 5.

And you've got natural depth having mercilus as an edge rusher and the ability for smith (if brought back at a reasonable rate) to rotate inside.

The transition would be relatively smooth and allow us to focus on fixing the OL and te option of QB if the new staff feel its the right time to do that.

htownfan32
11-26-2013, 07:36 AM
How much longer is this going to be an excuse? I guess the Browns, Jags and Panthers are also. Carolina is looking better right now and has been to the SB. The other two are not examples I would like to see emulated.

At some point excuses have to stop being made and people need to be held accountable. 8 years is a long time to be in charge and not really go any wear.

On that note, I'd like to request that upon Matt Schaub's departure, the number 8 should be stricken from the roster forever.

But Carolina has something we don't - a franchise QB. I wouldn't have said this before but Cam Newton has shown steady progression. Don't look now, but I think this Carolina team can contend for the playoffs.

And that goes back to the point I've been making consistently in the mock draft threads - if you have a shot at a franchise guy you take it.

Runner
11-26-2013, 08:29 AM
Some of us need to quit acting like this team is devoid of talent, because that isn't the case. Nor is it correct to say the team has enough talent to win a Super Bowl.

We're in that in-between stage that people can call it anything they like depending on which way the wind blows through the ears on their skull.

How can you say we're a talentless team?

Duane Brown, Chris Myers, AJ, DeAndre (who has been off recently, but he's got talent), Foster on the offense.

DJ Swearinger, Jonathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson (don't say he's not a good #2, because he is), Danieal Manning, JJ Watt, Ninja, Cushing.

This is not a talentless team. It's a shallow team.

The Texans have had good talent through most of the Kubiak era. That is why I always found the slow and steady, "right way" mantra so irritating. The team wasn't doing anything the right way; slow and steady was just some of the fans' way of spinning perennial under-achieving as progress. The second 8-8 season, 9-7, 6-10, maybe even the 10-6 season - the team underperformed to its talent level every time.

What changed last year for the 12-4 record? The team played up to its ability for once. This season it is back to performing well under the talent level. There is no excuse for the last two losses especially - is 4-7 too much to expect from this group? Hardly.

The Kubiak regime - the era of under-achievement and wasted opportunity.

HJam72
11-26-2013, 08:53 AM
You really can't go 11-5 & 12-4 and then fall apart and claim to still be an "expansion" team.

Aaron
11-26-2013, 09:21 AM
I can't help but feel that we are better suited to a 4-3 than a 3-4.

I mean, we need an NT, at least 1 ilb (possibly 2) and 2 ilbs as it stands.

If we go back to 4-3, we still need NT, Mitchell can play DT, move Cush back to olb giving him less responsibility for ranging the entire field to save his knee some, reed can play the other ilb, and draft one ilb (or trade for demeco to return?)

Suddenly you only have a glaring need at 2 positions instead of like 5.

And you've got natural depth having mercilus as an edge rusher and the ability for smith (if brought back at a reasonable rate) to rotate inside.

The transition would be relatively smooth and allow us to focus on fixing the OL and te option of QB if the new staff feel its the right time to do that.

JJ at DE in a 43 would be sick!

TexansFTW
11-26-2013, 09:27 AM
Anyone think Brian Orakpo would give us a hometown discount next year? Local kid who will be a free agent, and hes looked good tonight.

You only give hometown discounts if your home team is a contender or you have no market. Neither holds true here.

You really can't go 11-5 & 12-4 and then fall apart and claim to still be an "expansion" team.

Boom

Finally... everyone talking trading down in the first... When is the last time that worked out effectively for the Texans? Granted we should have new scouts in town but I want to take a stroll down memory lane

2007 traded down from 8 to 10 - We drafted Amobi Okoye (Pat Willis went 11 BTW)

2008 traded down from 18 to 26 - Duane Brown is awesome, no complaints...except the Ravens won a Super Bowl led by Flacco. At least we got Dominique Barber and Steve Slaton

Do NOT trade down! #1 overall player by most scouts is a Quarterback! THE MOST IMPORTANT position and the #1 overall talent! WTF?? There is your answer! Would it have been wise for the Colts to trade down from the #1 pick and build a 'foundation' (Everyone knows a 2-14 team is obviously lacking one). Take Bridgewater PLEASE. Enough building of this mythical 'foundation'.

TexansFTW
11-26-2013, 09:30 AM
JJ at DE in a 43 would be sick!

He's too good and a lot of his talent would be wasted. You don't want an idiot like Jared Allen or Mario Williams that can only loop around the outside and take down the QB when they hold the ball too long.

Watt puts up the same and better stats WHILE still plugging holes in the middle and stopping the run.

When Mario was here, all Peyton ever did was audible the run to Mario's side because there was always a huge hole over there while he came in looping out wide trying to sack Peyton.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
11-26-2013, 09:38 AM
JJ would be better off at DT in a 43. Majority of his sacks have come from there on passing downs

Aaron
11-26-2013, 09:41 AM
He's too good and a lot of his talent would be wasted. You don't want an idiot like Jared Allen or Mario Williams that can only loop around the outside and take down the QB when they hold the ball too long.

Watt puts up the same and better stats WHILE still plugging holes in the middle and stopping the run.

When Mario was here, all Peyton ever did was audible the run to Mario's side because there was always a huge hole over there while he came in looping out wide trying to sack Peyton.

The reason why you would make the switch is to maximize your DL play. Ends in 43 are put in a position to impact the game dramatically more than where JJ is now. Not that he is having a whole lot of trouble currently..

TexansFTW
11-26-2013, 11:18 AM
The reason why you would make the switch is to maximize your DL play. Ends in 43 are put in a position to impact the game dramatically more than where JJ is now. Not that he is having a whole lot of trouble currently..

I see little problem with the scheme and more problem with the talent evaluators behind the scenes. When you have the defensive MVP of the league in one system, I believe it's counter productive to alter his position on the football field.

The problem is we can't draft for sh...beans. Brooks Reed is a joke and Mercilus hasn't shown me first round worth.

Eliminate Wade and bring in someone like Ray Horton. Dude is a 3-4 beast, everywhere he goes he leaves an incredible defense behind. He can eye talent and coach it, get away from the good ole boy stuff and bring in fresh faces.

dalemurphy
11-26-2013, 11:23 AM
The reason why you would make the switch is to maximize your DL play. Ends in 43 are put in a position to impact the game dramatically more than where JJ is now. Not that he is having a whole lot of trouble currently..

This is too simplistic. 3-4 teams use a variety of alignments, as do 4-3 teams. Either way, Watt will be moved around to be most effective, which is what is done now. In a 4-3 this was done with guys like Reggie White. The issue with a 4-3 vs. 3-4 for impact DEs is primarily for those speed rushers and their comfort level playing with hand down vs. in 2 point stance and being asked to drop into coverage in greater frequency. Watt is not a speed rusher and will always be utilized from outside shade of OT and inside- something either defense can do effectively.

Uncle Rico
11-26-2013, 12:02 PM
You only give hometown discounts if your home team is a contender or you have no market. Neither holds true here.

I disagree, with proper adjustments this team could definitely compete and contend next year, AFC South and even most of the conference consist of a couple of powerhouses and a bunch of mediocrity.

Don't know where you get this hot market for Orakpo either. I don't envision him an all pro, but a definite skill set as a pass rusher.

powda
11-26-2013, 01:12 PM
The Shanahan/Kubiak version of the west coast offense is sick/dying and needs to be put to rest like old yeller.

Dead in the redzone. I'd love to get an old school disciplinarian like Caughlin and couple him with 2 innovative coordinators. I want an old hat coach and college coordinators. I'm not really impressed with many of the pro coach options out there right now. blah

TexansFTW
11-26-2013, 01:16 PM
I disagree, with proper adjustments this team could definitely compete and contend next year, AFC South and even most of the conference consist of a couple of powerhouses and a bunch of mediocrity.

If I'm an NFL player I don't go to a (hopefully) 2-14 team to win a championship that just (hopefully) overhauled all of the front office and coaching staff.

I'd be more than willing to bet we will be bottom 10 in Vegas for odds to win the Super Bowl next year, despite the talent on the field and (hopefully) a new #1 pick. If that holds true there are at least 22 other spots that have a better odds-on possibility of getting you to the dance.

Don't know where you get this hot market for Orakpo either. I don't envision him an all pro, but a definite skill set as a pass rusher.

Don't know why you think I said "hot market". I implied he will have A market, as opposed to NO market. With that said... of course he will have a hot market. He's one of the best pass rushing LBs in the game. I expect him, barring a huge injury before end of season, to be one of the highest paid OLBs in the game. I forsee something right around, maybe a little under Clay Mathews $. 5 year/$60ish. Slow start to season coming off injury, but he's been looking very strong lately.

I'll never remember to revisit this thread when his money is handed down, but if you remember, feel free to look back on this and reply saying that I am correct.

Thorn
11-26-2013, 01:20 PM
Dead in the redzone. I'd love to get an old school disciplinarian like Caughlin and couple him with 2 innovative coordinators. I want an old hat coach and college coordinators. I'm not really impressed with many of the pro coach options out there right now. blah

At this point I'd settle for something new to b*tch about. Crying about Kubiak is actually starting to get old now. He's so useless and dysfunctional a blind squirrel on the freeway has a better chance.

powda
11-26-2013, 01:54 PM
Crying about Kubiak is actually starting to get old now.

Yup, and so is the season. I'm ready for the draft. Only 5 1/2 months to go.

Uncle Rico
11-26-2013, 02:13 PM
If I'm an NFL player I don't go to a (hopefully) 2-14 team to win a championship that just (hopefully) overhauled all of the front office and coaching staff.

I'd be more than willing to bet we will be bottom 10 in Vegas for odds to win the Super Bowl next year, despite the talent on the field and (hopefully) a new #1 pick. If that holds true there are at least 22 other spots that have a better odds-on possibility of getting you to the dance.



Don't know why you think I said "hot market". I implied he will have A market, as opposed to NO market. With that said... of course he will have a hot market. He's one of the best pass rushing LBs in the game. I expect him, barring a huge injury before end of season, to be one of the highest paid OLBs in the game. I forsee something right around, maybe a little under Clay Mathews $. 5 year/$60ish. Slow start to season coming off injury, but he's been looking very strong lately.

I'll never remember to revisit this thread when his money is handed down, but if you remember, feel free to look back on this and reply saying that I am correct.

Dude don't be another chest thumper your not some football nostradamus, just anothe Joe who thinks he could play GM. If you really think Orakpo is in the sane class as Matthews I would recommend a rehab clinic. All the other stuff you spew is rhetoric, completely dismissing the probability of a turnaround is pessimistic to a fault.

TexansFTW
11-26-2013, 02:18 PM
Dude don't be another chest thumper your not some Lu.d of football nostradamus, just anothe Joe who thinks he could play GM. If you really think Orakpo is in the sane class as Matthews I would recommend a rehab clinic. All the other stuff you spew is rhetoric, completely dismissing the probability of a turnaround is pessimistic to a fault.

I thought that's what message boards were for? And complaining. I do that too. I never said a turn around wasn't probable, I am simply stating probable Vegas odds. If you want to pick a fight with someone, I'll step back and let you have the ring to yourself bro.

I just went to the trouble of putting an email calendar reminder to revisit this thread next June though.

badboy
11-26-2013, 03:52 PM
I can't ever think of the big tennessee kids name. Are those his stats? I wasn't looking at stats, I just look at his stoutness inside and how he moves inside. I watched him forklift guys in the backfield with straight power.You are thinking McCullers who along with Danny Shelton is dropping in rankings but those stats belong to Ark State Ryan Carrethers.

Thorn
11-26-2013, 04:17 PM
Re: What is the rebuilding path?

C:\Texans\Coaches\Dumbass Coaches\Kubiak\deleteall.cmd

htownfan32
11-26-2013, 04:25 PM
C:\Texans\Coaches\Dumbass Coaches\Kubiak\deleteall.cmd

:clap: and MSR lol

Exascor
11-26-2013, 04:32 PM
C:\Texans\Coaches\Dumbass Coaches\Kubiak\deleteall.cmdAwesome!

drs23
11-26-2013, 04:36 PM
You are thinking McCullers who along with Danny Shelton is dropping in rankings but those stats belong to Ark State Ryan Carrethers.

Did he run around with Newton? :kitten::kitten:

Honoring Earl 34
11-26-2013, 04:41 PM
Need figures ?

I need a recount but as a reference the Broncos have 29 players who make a million or more . The Texans have 16 because they paid a bunch of money to the top of the list I guess . The 49ers have 31 players who make a million or more . This explains the special teams situation .

http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2013

leebigeztx
11-26-2013, 05:21 PM
He's too good and a lot of his talent would be wasted. You don't want an idiot like Jared Allen or Mario Williams that can only loop around the outside and take down the QB when they hold the ball too long.

Watt puts up the same and better stats WHILE still plugging holes in the middle and stopping the run.

When Mario was here, all Peyton ever did was audible the run to Mario's side because there was always a huge hole over there while he came in looping out wide trying to sack Peyton.

If you don't like mario cuz he was hurt a lot,that's cool,but stop lying. Manning would just step up in the pockets,just like qbs do now because the texans have never had a pocket pusher. Just like now, qb step inside and throw darts cuz the texans have always been small at dt. Even last yr with buffalo,mario had the 3rd highest ratio of hits,pressures and sacks. Without looking , I'm sure he's at the top again. Was he worth 50m guaranteed? Probably not,but don't act like when healthy he's not a probowl caliber de who plays the run and rushes the passer. That's just lying to yourself.

leebigeztx
11-26-2013, 05:30 PM
You are thinking McCullers who along with Danny Shelton is dropping in rankings but those stats belong to Ark State Ryan Carrethers.

Ok. Teams are scared of 350lb guys. John jenkins last yr went in the 3rd and I thought he was 1st rd talent. Jenkins is the reason saints made that transition seemless.Mccullers is a big,powerful man. He holds the point and when he bull rush,it takes 2 players to stop him.He collapses the pocket and eats up space inside the pocket. He's big,not fat. You put him at nt and watt along with the lbs are a lot better.

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 05:42 PM
I don't believe in McCarron. Guys that have the most ideal conditions in college scare me. 6 seconds in the pocket, play makers, rarely needs to throw over 30 times a game, amazing run game year in and year out. Defense that gets you the ball deep in opponents territory.

I like guys that have to work for it, that have garbage teams around them and still rise up when it matters like Bridgewater in the Bowl game against #3 Florida last year.

QB 1st, otherwise you will be building the 'foundation' forever. What about our foundation is missing anyways?

Top 5 WR - check
Top 5 RB - check
Top 5 DL - check
Top 5 LB - check (when healthy)
top 8 CB - check
2 top 15 OLine - check

Foundation is built bro. Time to strike is now. Andre's days are numbered and after MegaWatt signs his MegaDeal a whole lot of those other positions start becoming unchecked.

If you believe the Texans foundation is built correctly, then we will have to agree to disagree. If you dont think it will take Bridgewater or any other rookie QB 2-3 yrs to figure things out you're fooling yourself. Sorry AJ aint gonna be getting a ring playing with the Texans. Sad but true.

If you hold it against McCarron for playing behind a great OL with plenty of weapons, did you do the same for Luck when he came out?

badboy
11-26-2013, 05:43 PM
Did he run around with Newton? :kitten::kitten:Did who run around with Newton? I was anti-Derek Newton at first even referred to him as "fig" but I saw him develop and then started comparing him to D. Brown's first year of actual play. IIRC Newton in his first season only had 17 plays. 2014 is his third full season and if healthy could be very good as was Brown's as a first round compared to a 7th. I think like others, Newton was forced to come back too soon and we see the results. An injured Duane had a piss poor year also. I was hoping Brennan Williams would push Newton but we saw how that developed. I think we have to draft another OT regardless of having Williams and Q healthy by TC.

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 05:46 PM
Ok. Teams are scared of 350lb guys. John jenkins last yr went in the 3rd and I thought he was 1st rd talent. Jenkins is the reason saints made that transition seemless.Mccullers is a big,powerful man. He holds the point and when he bull rush,it takes 2 players to stop him.He collapses the pocket and eats up space inside the pocket. He's big,not fat. You put him at nt and watt along with the lbs are a lot better.

Agreed

One of these NT's (Carrethers/Shelton/McCullers should be available in the 3rd/4th rd range. I would think about 2 of them even if I had to trade up and draft both in the 4th rd.

badboy
11-26-2013, 05:54 PM
Ok. Teams are scared of 350lb guys. John jenkins last yr went in the 3rd and I thought he was 1st rd talent. Jenkins is the reason saints made that transition seemless.Mccullers is a big,powerful man. He holds the point and when he bull rush,it takes 2 players to stop him.He collapses the pocket and eats up space inside the pocket. He's big,not fat. You put him at nt and watt along with the lbs are a lot better.

McCullers is big and fat. He trimmed (?) down from 390 to 350 and from what I hear has fluctuated between the two. Struggles with leverage. I am not saying your evalauation as a run stopper is wrong I just like another guy better who occasionally gets sacks.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/131468/daniel-mccullers
http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2013/aug/02/daniel-mccullers-enters-first-practice-with-new/

badboy
11-26-2013, 05:56 PM
Agreed

One of these NT's (Carrethers/Shelton/McCullers should be available in the 3rd/4th rd range. I would think about 2 of them even if I had to trade up and draft both in the 4th rd.

What about drafting one NT (too many other holes) and resigning Mitchell to replace Ninja and moving him to Nose on 3rd and long to utilize his speed?

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 06:04 PM
You really can't go 11-5 & 12-4 and then fall apart and claim to still be an "expansion" team.

Truth is, this team wasn't as good as 11-5/12-4 talent or coaching wise. Neither are they as bad talentwise as the 2-14 path they seem to be headed down. The coaching has been as bad as their record is. Without divine intervention this team should be 0-11 now. (Just think about that for a moment.)

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 06:07 PM
The Shanahan/Kubiak version of the west coast offense is sick/dying and needs to be put to rest like old yeller. I personally am tired of a finesse offense especially when they get in the red zone. I want to see some power football and see our ol push some dl backwards on 3 and short or 4th and goal. On defense I don't care if they go 4-3 or stay 3-4 just stop somebody. Disguise some things and mix up the blitzes so the opposing teams don't know who is coming or from where. Build both sides of the ball around our good core players. Build from the trenches out. And can we finally get a fat boy in the middle of our DL?

We may want to think about trading AJ to a contending team next year. I personally want to see him succeed and retire happy. AJ has given everything here and deserves a chance at a superbowl before he retires. I am not sure this team can turn around quick enough for that to happen here. The rest of the players are young enough to continue building with. I'm not saying this team can't turn around quickly. I'm just saying a new coach and gm will need to weigh their options. For sure Schaub needs to go.

I'm a build the trenches guy. Something the Texans have never done and a big reason they are where they are today.

drs23
11-26-2013, 07:17 PM
I'm a build the trenches guy. Something the Texans have never done and a big reason they are where they are today.

:goodpost:

TheMatrix31
11-26-2013, 07:21 PM
Truth is, this team wasn't as good as 11-5/12-4 talent or coaching wise. Neither are they as bad talentwise as the 2-14 path they seem to be headed down. The coaching has been as bad as their record is. Without divine intervention this team should be 0-11 now. (Just think about that for a moment.)


And without "divine intervention" (I don't know what this means but I assume it to mean we were lucky to win Weeks 1 and 2), we wouldn't have lost by 3 against Seattle (Ben Tate's fumble and the subsequent chain reaction), 1 against Kansas City (Cushing's injury), by 3 against Indy (all the BS penalties, Bullock, Andre's "incomplete catch"), by 3 against Arizona, or by 5 against Oakland.

It can go both ways. We are 2-9. That's what we are. We could easily be something else but we're 2-9. If people can't say "we could have won if......" then people certainly can't say "we would have lost if......"

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 09:28 PM
What about drafting one NT (too many other holes) and resigning Mitchell to replace Ninja and moving him to Nose on 3rd and long to utilize his speed?

I get what you're saying, but instead of trying to fill all of the holes in 1 draft, which is what Rick has done yr after yr. I would rather go for value and create depth. Something that Rick also has never done.

I hope the new regime follows the Panthers path that they took in last yrs draft although not in rds 1-2. Star/Short

There should be McCullers in rd 3 and Carrethers in Rd 4. Then you could move Mitchell outside and really improve the DL.

steelbtexan
11-26-2013, 09:31 PM
And without "divine intervention" (I don't know what this means but I assume it to mean we were lucky to win Weeks 1 and 2), we wouldn't have lost by 3 against Seattle (Ben Tate's fumble and the subsequent chain reaction), 1 against Kansas City (Cushing's injury), by 3 against Indy (all the BS penalties, Bullock, Andre's "incomplete catch"), by 3 against Arizona, or by 5 against Oakland.

It can go both ways. We are 2-9. That's what we are. We could easily be something else but we're 2-9. If people can't say "we could have won if......" then people certainly can't say "we would have lost if......"

I'm saying neither, just pointing out how bad this team stinks.

badboy
11-29-2013, 12:11 PM
I get what you're saying, but instead of trying to fill all of the holes in 1 draft, which is what Rick has done yr after yr. I would rather go for value and create depth. Something that Rick also has never done.

I hope the new regime follows the Panthers path that they took in last yrs draft although not in rds 1-2. Star/Short

There should be McCullers in rd 3 and Carrethers in Rd 4. Then you could move Mitchell outside and really improve the DL.If we have my trade down scenario with extra selections (ILB Shayne Skov in third and Andrew Jackson in 4th) I agree. However, that will probably not be the scenario. Ever game you lose, fans will look at two players chosen in close rounds will clamor "you should have gotten a safety" (or whatever). I would love two noses in draft but not at expense of another need. When your starter gets tired, move Mitchell back a few series. There is value in that. Strengthen your starting spots then work on depth.

handswarmer
11-29-2013, 12:36 PM
there are two paths to take IMO:

Path 1- Use the 1st rd pick to draft a QBOTF, which requires 'nailing it' on draft day and not drafting another BWeeden, Sanchez, Geno, Gabbert, Tebow, VY, etc....

The Read Option is NOT for the long term future of the NFL- Most Read Option QB's are failing because the Defenses have caught up to them by maintaining gap integrity on the DL and the CB's flying to the ball and tackling hard. Some R/O QB's have found success more by staying in the pocket and using the legs when the play breaks down. Newton, Kapernick, Wilson.

So the smart money is more on drafting the QB in the Pro Style offense who can improvise- that's Manzel. Another guy comes t mind but he slips my mind.

This is more likely a path if the owner cleans house of the GM and Coach.

Path 2- Another year of Schaub/Kubiak

Trading down in the draft for multiple picks will build depth but and this is a big but, you have to have faith in your scouts and evaluation process. A Qb can be drafted in the 2nd or even 3rd but lets not get lost in the "Brady was a 6th rd pick" dream full of unicorns and rainbows....2nds and 3rds can still play in the right system.

The amassed picks could be used to draft a lot of depth- the DLine, Secondary and WR position could all use some depth.

In the end, the new CBA limits the rookie contracts so salary cap concerns do not force a trade of the #1 pick. But having a lot of picks is also salary cap friendly.

Lets not forget the Free Agent market- Mike Vick will be available as well as a few other names who have had success in the league and are not named Schaub....

Uncle Rico
11-30-2013, 12:58 PM
If anyone is in a pro style offense its Bridgewater, definitely not the Art Briles/Kevin sumlin air raid offenses. Have you even watched an A&M game?? SMH.

Texian
11-30-2013, 05:27 PM
Rebuild, not that painful for some, more painful for others.

1. Fire Smubiak

2. Hire GM with Final Say on 53 man roster. Someone like Eric deCosta. Ensures team always operates with a 5 year vision plan instead of band aids for the season at hand.

3. GM hires Head Coach, someone like David Shaw or Jimbo Fisher whose teams always play well in all 3 phases of the game.

4. 2014 release Matt Schaub and Arian Foster, that's it. Unlikely, Foster after back surgery will be the Foster everyone knows and loves. Expecting Slayton after his neck surgery.

5. Keep Daniels, Joseph and Manning in 2014 because new QB will need and rely on Andre and Daniels. Joseph and Manning are best DBs on roster and unlikely able to replace their level of play. Trying to could result in big step backwards.

6. Along with Schaub and Foster, Manning and Daniels salaries are off the 2015 books and Texans start 2015 year almost $50 million under the cap. If league goes to 17/18 reg season games salary cap likely to increase $10 million to $140 million and Texans would be $60 million under the cap. More than enough to re-sign Watt or trade him for (3) 1st RD picks +. Whatever suits your fancy.

Thorn
12-01-2013, 01:03 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/Unicron55/BBS/onedumb.jpg

Seegara
12-01-2013, 05:59 PM
Houston, notable in so many ways, has had the best restaurant name I ever heard (Joey's Old Chicago Doghouse) and the worst (Velvet Turtle). But I'm afraid it's just not a sports city.

SchaubApologist
12-01-2013, 11:22 PM
Rebuild, not that painful for some, more painful for others.

1. Fire Smubiak

2. Hire GM with Final Say on 53 man roster. Someone like Eric deCosta. Ensures team always operates with a 5 year vision plan instead of band aids for the season at hand.

3. GM hires Head Coach, someone like David Shaw or Jimbo Fisher whose teams always play well in all 3 phases of the game.

4. 2014 release Matt Schaub and Arian Foster, that's it. Unlikely, Foster after back surgery will be the Foster everyone knows and loves. Expecting Slayton after his neck surgery.

5. Keep Daniels, Joseph and Manning in 2014 because new QB will need and rely on Andre and Daniels. Joseph and Manning are best DBs on roster and unlikely able to replace their level of play. Trying to could result in big step backwards.

6. Along with Schaub and Foster, Manning and Daniels salaries are off the 2015 books and Texans start 2015 year almost $50 million under the cap. If league goes to 17/18 reg season games salary cap likely to increase $10 million to $140 million and Texans would be $60 million under the cap. More than enough to re-sign Watt or trade him for (3) 1st RD picks +. Whatever suits your fancy.

i'm down with this plan... as long as we draft teddy bridgewater @ 1.1 and the best avail tackle @ 2.1

TXAg14
12-02-2013, 12:38 AM
Texans can go one of two ways from the draft.

1) Draft a QB like Bridgewater. Effectively that is telling Keenum to take a hike. Big risk option there, do the Texans get an Andrew Luck or a Ryan Leaf?

2) Take an OL/DL pick first, shore up one of the lines. This is better from the "rebuilding" standpoint as it's less of a risk but it won't immediately improve the Texans from the QB standpoint.

Personally, unless the Texans feel like Bridgewater is the savior of the franchise and WILL be the best thing to happen to Houston since air conditioning, I'd go with the safe pick. Nothing wrong with improving your lines.

I'm also thinking the Texans might find some value at the QB position in the 2nd round. A guy I really like is Aaron Murray. He'd be a lower pick since he tore his ACL a couple weeks ago, but I think if he can recover then he'd be worth a look.

Summed up, the biggest decision, and the telltale sign of how the next few years will play out rests on what the Texans do in the first round.

leebigeztx
12-02-2013, 02:29 AM
Texans can go one of two ways from the draft.

1) Draft a QB like Bridgewater. Effectively that is telling Keenum to take a hike. Big risk option there, do the Texans get an Andrew Luck or a Ryan Leaf?

2) Take an OL/DL pick first, shore up one of the lines. This is better from the "rebuilding" standpoint as it's less of a risk but it won't immediately improve the Texans from the QB standpoint.

Personally, unless the Texans feel like Bridgewater is the savior of the franchise and WILL be the best thing to happen to Houston since air conditioning, I'd go with the safe pick. Nothing wrong with improving your lines.

I'm also thinking the Texans might find some value at the QB position in the 2nd round. A guy I really like is Aaron Murray. He'd be a lower pick since he tore his ACL a couple weeks ago, but I think if he can recover then he'd be worth a look.

Summed up, the biggest decision, and the telltale sign of how the next few years will play out rests on what the Texans do in the first round.

Robert Gallery and Aaron Curry were safe pick.

The Pencil Neck
12-04-2013, 01:45 AM
I remember last year when, about this time, I was hoping we'd get Manti Teo to team with Cushing in the middle. At that time, it was a pipe dream because there was no way he lasted to our pick in the first round. Everyone was expecting him to go in the 10-15 pick range.

And then a lot of stuff happened and he dropped into the 2nd round and I didn't even want him when our pick came up.

The moral of this story is that there's a lot of stuff that's going to happen from now until the draft. Players' stocks are going to rise and player's stocks are going to fall. We don't even know what sort of offensive system we're going to be wanting this guy to fit into.

Do we take Bridgewater? Carr? Mariota? Man, it's WAY too premature to be getting into those details.

And when we get a new coach, is he going to be in a win-now, Super Bowl or bust mode or is he going to have time? Because if he has time, then he's probably going to want to take a couple of years of suckage to put all the best pieces in place. If he doesn't see "his guy" at QB in this draft, he can go with Keenum and/or some later round guy and try to infuse some talent into the rest of the team.

It's going to be interesting watching this play itself out.

kiwitexansfan
12-04-2013, 03:03 AM
http://files.sharenator.com/KILL_IT_WITH_FIRE_FUNNY_FORUM_PICS-s500x350-132460-580.jpg

imatexan
12-04-2013, 03:19 AM
Houston, notable in so many ways, has had the best restaurant name I ever heard (Joey's Old Chicago Doghouse) and the worst (Velvet Turtle). But I'm afraid it's just not a sports city.

I'm afraid you have no idea what you are rambling about.

Vance87
12-04-2013, 03:20 AM
I'm afraid you have no idea what you are rambling about.

That happens to him alot.

steelbtexan
12-04-2013, 10:12 AM
Robert Gallery and Aaron Curry were safe pick.

So were HWNSMBM and Russell, think the Texans would've rather picked Peppers or the Raiders CJ?

HOU-TEX
12-04-2013, 10:19 AM
I remember last year when, about this time, I was hoping we'd get Manti Teo to team with Cushing in the middle. At that time, it was a pipe dream because there was no way he lasted to our pick in the first round. Everyone was expecting him to go in the 10-15 pick range.

And then a lot of stuff happened and he dropped into the 2nd round and I didn't even want him when our pick came up.

The moral of this story is that there's a lot of stuff that's going to happen from now until the draft. Players' stocks are going to rise and player's stocks are going to fall. We don't even know what sort of offensive system we're going to be wanting this guy to fit into.

Do we take Bridgewater? Carr? Mariota? Man, it's WAY too premature to be getting into those details.

And when we get a new coach, is he going to be in a win-now, Super Bowl or bust mode or is he going to have time? Because if he has time, then he's probably going to want to take a couple of years of suckage to put all the best pieces in place. If he doesn't see "his guy" at QB in this draft, he can go with Keenum and/or some later round guy and try to infuse some talent into the rest of the team.

It's going to be interesting watching this play itself out.

Unfortunately, we can probably scratch Mariota off the list. He chose to stay in College. Good for him, meh for us

leebigeztx
12-04-2013, 01:56 PM
So were HWNSMBM and Russell, think the Texans would've rather picked Peppers or the Raiders CJ?

I dont ever remember anyone saying russell was safe pick. Mainly because he only flashed a few games his jr year and people questioned his drive before the draft. he was veiwed as an upside pick.I never understood the Carr pick especially when so many people had Peppers as the absolute best prospect for what its worth. The owner wanted this face of the franchise like tim couch for Cleveland. Cleveland also tried the safe pick afterwards with courtney brown and he was a bust.

The point is and have been said a million times, there are no safe picks when your talking about 21 yr olds. I have a 22 yr old in nurding school, but im not sure if she would be motivated to finish if i gave her 5m right now. There is no art to the draft, its about a framework,strategy,and luck. There isnt a pick thats safer than another. Thats why i keep bringing curry and gallery up because thats what was said about those 2 during the draft process. Gallery went to a raiders team that had no one at qb in 04. They passed on Rivers,Big Ben,and even Larry Fitz to pisk the safe LT. People were saying since the lions finished 0 for 16 and coming off the harrington,rodgers,and mike williams busted drafts,they should just take Curry. Trust me,this was a nationwide consent because stafford was the young guy with the cannon and babyfat. Look how stupid they wouldve looked by passing stafford for curry. You cant be jaded by the past failures and have to evaluate every prospect as an individual.

drs23
12-04-2013, 02:47 PM
...there are no safe picks when your talking about 21 yr olds. I have a 22 yr old in nurding school...

So how's that going? Is she top of the class or just barely hangin'? :kitten: :D

steelbtexan
12-04-2013, 03:09 PM
I dont ever remember anyone saying russell was safe pick. Mainly because he only flashed a few games his jr year and people questioned his drive before the draft. he was veiwed as an upside pick.I never understood the Carr pick especially when so many people had Peppers as the absolute best prospect for what its worth. The owner wanted this face of the franchise like tim couch for Cleveland. Cleveland also tried the safe pick afterwards with courtney brown and he was a bust.

The point is and have been said a million times, there are no safe picks when your talking about 21 yr olds. I have a 22 yr old in nurding school, but im not sure if she would be motivated to finish if i gave her 5m right now. There is no art to the draft, its about a framework,strategy,and luck. There isnt a pick thats safer than another. Thats why i keep bringing curry and gallery up because thats what was said about those 2 during the draft process. Gallery went to a raiders team that had no one at qb in 04. They passed on Rivers,Big Ben,and even Larry Fitz to pisk the safe LT. People were saying since the lions finished 0 for 16 and coming off the harrington,rodgers,and mike williams busted drafts,they should just take Curry. Trust me,this was a nationwide consent because stafford was the young guy with the cannon and babyfat. Look how stupid they wouldve looked by passing stafford for curry. You cant be jaded by the past failures and have to evaluate every prospect as an individual.

The difference is I dont see Bridgewater in the class of Stafford. You see Bridgewater as a franchise QB, I dont. But I really like the back and forth conversation you are providing. Lots of respect for your hisorical perspective.

I here ya about kids and college. I've got a very bright (took after his mom) 19 yr old that is failing a class because he cant get out of bed and nake it to class by 8:00. (Frustration)

leebigeztx
12-05-2013, 03:30 AM
...

So how's that going? Is she top of the class or just barely hangin'? :kitten: :D

Actually deans list pretty much. The typo on nursing school,lol.

drs23
12-05-2013, 07:10 PM
Actually deans list pretty much. The typo on nursing school,lol.

Yeah, I know. Just funnin'. :)

amazing80
12-05-2013, 07:22 PM
Lets clarify some things for some of you.

Rebuilding - Having to dismantle the team and REBUILD the roster. Something that truly does not happen that often. But when it does the team regresses badly for quite some time. This is what we did when Gary FIRST got here. This is what the Jets and Jaguars are doing.

ReTOOLING - Having to make a few changes, MAYBE you change some coaches and bring in a new philosophy. This is a quick turnaround and will will not require a roster rebuild. We have NEVER done this, but its something a team does to jump start the "heart". The Chiefs and Eagles are the most recent examples.

NOW of those 2, which do you think we are?

Clearly we are just retooling. A new head coach, a defensive upgrade and some upgrades to our oline. (qb is for another discussion) We will bounce back in no time, AND the idea that it takes years to flip a team is garbage and the Falcons, Seattle and Eagles showed you that's garbage.

TexansFTW
12-05-2013, 10:05 PM
The difference is I dont see Bridgewater in the class of Stafford. You see Bridgewater as a franchise QB, I dont. But I really like the back and forth conversation you are providing. Lots of respect for your hisorical perspective.

I here ya about kids and college. I've got a very bright (took after his mom) 19 yr old that is failing a class because he cant get out of bed and nake it to class by 8:00. (Frustration)

Well, just about every notable draft "expert" would disagree with you.

Let me guess, you believe we should build up the line and draft AJ McCarron?

So he can join the likes of all the other Pro Bowl SEC QBs (not including last name Manning) killing it in the NFL these days? Cam Newton and Stafford are all that's left and w/out Megatron I don't think Stafford would even be a .500 QB. McCarron will fail like all the rest. He should shoot to be a Matt Lionheart, and hope to ride the pine and chill in hot tubs w/ hookers, praying his name never gets called.

We can't continue spending first round picks on our line every year and wait for this mystic QB to come riding in on their stallion. He's no Andrew Luck, but the last one like that before him was Peyton Manning. With that said Peyton only won 1 Super Bowl and a lot of others have won them in the meantime. Teddy is the guy. I am just waiting for April so I can buy my Bridgewater Texans jersey.

leebigeztx
12-05-2013, 11:47 PM
Prett obvious even this earl y in the process. Get the qb,fill in the other holes.

burro
12-06-2013, 05:30 PM
I would like to see us take a LB, preferably Anthony Barr, with the first overall. Our tackling is atrocious and we can't cover a TE for anything, LB is the most desperate need.

I may be in the minority, but I'm content to give Keenum a second look next year. Keenum's essentially a rookie and has performed admirably amid multiple systems failure and a regime collapse. With a fresh HC, some hard work, and major oline improvements we could set him up for success and get a real look at what we're working with. Also, he would be cheap compared to a first overall pick or star veteran; this is important because we have a lot of positions to improve on and will need more cap space than we have.

srrono
12-06-2013, 05:43 PM
With this dreadful season comes high draft position with trade back possibilities also another small advantage is remaining League cuts the Texans have first choice may not help but could be a hidden value in the offseason.

Texan4Ever
12-06-2013, 07:48 PM
This season reminds me of similarities between the 2005-2006 season where we stuck with Carr for a few years (don't recall how many), drafted Mario Williams (DE), and hired a new HC in Kubiak.

With that being said I would do the following:

1.) Hire Lovie Smith (I want a proven HC and not some OC/DC being given the HC gig for the first time).

2.) Draft Clowney (not the biggest fan but him and JJ Watt can secure the line for years to come)

3.) ?????

4.) Win Super Bowl XLIX

houstonspartan
12-06-2013, 07:58 PM
Lets clarify some things for some of you.

Rebuilding - Having to dismantle the team and REBUILD the roster. Something that truly does not happen that often. But when it does the team regresses badly for quite some time. This is what we did when Gary FIRST got here. This is what the Jets and Jaguars are doing.

ReTOOLING - Having to make a few changes, MAYBE you change some coaches and bring in a new philosophy. This is a quick turnaround and will will not require a roster rebuild. We have NEVER done this, but its something a team does to jump start the "heart". The Chiefs and Eagles are the most recent examples.

NOW of those 2, which do you think we are?

Clearly we are just retooling. A new head coach, a defensive upgrade and some upgrades to our oline. (qb is for another discussion) We will bounce back in no time, AND the idea that it takes years to flip a team is garbage and the Falcons, Seattle and Eagles showed you that's garbage.

Well said and I agree. I have long said that changing coaches would not be as scary as people think. If you take a hard look at this team, a lot of the pieces are there. It's just a matter of putting it all together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

imatexan
12-06-2013, 08:05 PM
McNair made it clear we are not rebuilding.

Runner
12-06-2013, 08:10 PM
McNair made it clear we are not rebuilding.

This season made it clear that slow and steady was just another name for under-achievement and repeated failure. Even McNair could no longer convince himself otherwise.

The Pencil Neck
12-06-2013, 08:14 PM
McNair made it clear we are not rebuilding.

While that's a great idea, I don't know how possible it is. I haven't heard too many owners say, "We're rebuilding now."

On the offensive side, we're built for a Kubiak/Shanahan offense that's based primarily on the ZBS. After being used so much last year, I don't know how much tread is left on Arian's tires and I don't know if we keep Tate. I also don't think we have THE QB. So that means we're going to have to make moves across the line, at QB, and probably at RB.

On the defensive side, we're built for a penetrating 3-4/5-2. Our CBs are risky and the only good safety we have is Swearinger, who's scary in his immaturity. At LB, we've got Cushing who's questionable because of his health and then we've got a bunch of scrubs. On the DL, what we're going to do depends on the DC we get and his defense. If we go to 4, Mercilus and Reed will probably be asked to gain weight and drop down on to the line; if we go to an old-school 3-4, we've got to get an NT and then Watt and Smith become questions.

I think there's some talent on this team but the more I think about it, the more I'm worried that whoever we get to coach is going to have to get really creative to use it and will probably blow things up and start from scratch.

Thorn
12-06-2013, 08:24 PM
whatever term you used to describe it, with a new head coach they will rebuild. To what degree is the question.

welsh texan
12-07-2013, 12:10 AM
A few weeks ago I was all for sorting the o line this season and nabbing our QB of the future next season.

With cases struggles, I'm taking a QB first and fixing holes after that.

TexansFTW
12-07-2013, 12:12 PM
I would like to see us take a LB, preferably Anthony Barr, with the first overall. Our tackling is atrocious and we can't cover a TE for anything, LB is the most desperate need.

I may be in the minority, but I'm content to give Keenum a second look next year. Keenum's essentially a rookie and has performed admirably amid multiple systems failure and a regime collapse. With a fresh HC, some hard work, and major oline improvements we could set him up for success and get a real look at what we're working with. Also, he would be cheap compared to a first overall pick or star veteran; this is important because we have a lot of positions to improve on and will need more cap space than we have.

I am a UH Grad and went to and saw Keenum play MANY games while I was there. It should go without saying I am probably one of his biggest fans and die hard supporters.

With that said... He's gone 0-7. Regardless of how close he might have came all of those games, he's gone 0-7. That includes 3 games to the Jags and Raiders with a first time starting QB. Those teams are dumpster fires and if Case can't beat them after half a season, then I'm sorry, but QB is the most pressing position there is.

The Colts with ALL of their flaws (and everyone knows a 2-14 team has them) took at QB #1 and made the playoffs at 11-5 the next year with one major change... the #1 pick.

TexansFTW
12-07-2013, 12:15 PM
This season reminds me of similarities between the 2005-2006 season where we stuck with Carr for a few years (don't recall how many), drafted Mario Williams (DE), and hired a new HC in Kubiak.

With that being said I would do the following:

1.) Hire Lovie Smith (I want a proven HC and not some OC/DC being given the HC gig for the first time).

2.) Draft Clowney (not the biggest fan but him and JJ Watt can secure the line for years to come)

3.) ?????

4.) Win Super Bowl XLIX

Take a look at what "The Game Changer" Clowney has done this year and then read a little bit about what NFL scouts have been saying about him and try to convince yourself he is the answer.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/515821/jadeveon-clowney

GuerillaBlack
12-07-2013, 01:13 PM
I am a UH Grad and went to and saw Keenum play MANY games while I was there. It should go without saying I am probably one of his biggest fans and die hard supporters.

With that said... He's gone 0-7. Regardless of how close he might have came all of those games, he's gone 0-7. That includes 3 games to the Jags and Raiders with a first time starting QB. Those teams are dumpster fires and if Case can't beat them after half a season, then I'm sorry, but QB is the most pressing position there is.

The Colts with ALL of their flaws (and everyone knows a 2-14 team has them) took at QB #1 and made the playoffs at 11-5 the next year with one major change... the #1 pick.

O-7. In two of those games, he did not even get to finish the third quarter. The Texans D giving up big play to big play against Oakland. Jags have been playing better. I'm not going to worry too much about the record that Keenum has right now. I don't think that is fair to put that on him when the team is complete **** this season. I'm more focused on how Keenum is ACTUALLY PLAYING. Going by his actual play (and taking into account Kubiak), he has done okay. He has shown enough flashes imo to still have that potential of being a starting QB for a playoff team. At worst, he is one of the better backups in the NFL.

I do not believe there is a franchise QB at the top, so take Clowney and see how far Manziel falls would be what I would do. NO TEDDY!

Pantherstang84
12-07-2013, 02:09 PM
O-7. In two of those games, he did not even get to finish the third quarter. The Texans D giving up big play to big play against Oakland. Jags have been playing better. I'm not going to worry too much about the record that Keenum has right now. I don't think that is fair to put that on him when the team is complete **** this season. I'm more focused on how Keenum is ACTUALLY PLAYING. Going by his actual play (and taking into account Kubiak), he has done okay. He has shown enough flashes imo to still have that potential of being a starting QB for a playoff team. At worst, he is one of the better backups in the NFL.

I do not believe there is a franchise QB at the top, so take Clowney and see how far Manziel falls would be what I would do. NO TEDDY!

No Johnny either. Keep looking.

Texanmike02
12-07-2013, 05:11 PM
O-7. In two of those games, he did not even get to finish the third quarter. The Texans D giving up big play to big play against Oakland. Jags have been playing better. I'm not going to worry too much about the record that Keenum has right now. I don't think that is fair to put that on him when the team is complete **** this season. I'm more focused on how Keenum is ACTUALLY PLAYING. Going by his actual play (and taking into account Kubiak), he has done okay. He has shown enough flashes imo to still have that potential of being a starting QB for a playoff team. At worst, he is one of the better backups in the NFL.

I do not believe there is a franchise QB at the top, so take Clowney and see how far Manziel falls would be what I would do. NO TEDDY!

Keenum is not the answer.

He had a few nice spots in his first 3 games and looked like he was doing his part. He started off

57 of 102
822 Yards
7 TDs
0 INT
8.5 ypa
Passer Rating 105.1

In his first 3 games.

Since then?
62 of 117
770 Passing Yards
2 TDs
4 INTs
6.5 ypa
Passer Rating 65.1

Nobody was ready for him and nobody knew what to expect with him in the game. His first 3 games there was nothing to gameplan against but since then it has become painstakingly obvious that if you get pressure on him he will start to feel pressure that isn't there and break away from the pocket. There is no doubting he's exciting to watch, much moreso than Schaub but he is inconsistent and has some glaring weaknesses. He is kind of like doug flutie meets tony Romo.


We need a QB!

Mike

DexmanC
12-07-2013, 09:55 PM
From what I've watched of Teddy Bridgewater...

He has more physical tools than David Garrard (referenced him due to his display of toughness,) and a mind for the game like Byron Leftwich. He has almost no NFL talent around him, except MAYBE his favorite receiver, #9. When they play big schools, he's shown he's belonged.

Is he a #1 pick?

If the Texans are holding that pick, they have no choice but to take him.

bhsman
12-07-2013, 10:00 PM
Take a look at what "The Game Changer" Clowney has done this year and then read a little bit about what NFL scouts have been saying about him and try to convince yourself he is the answer.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/515821/jadeveon-clowney

You mean NFL scouts saying that's he's still as amazing as we all thought, and that the stats don't tell the whole story?

GuerillaBlack
12-07-2013, 11:37 PM
From what I've watched of Teddy Bridgewater...

He has more physical tools than David Garrard (referenced him due to his display of toughness,) and a mind for the game like Byron Leftwich. He has almost no NFL talent around him, except MAYBE his favorite receiver, #9. When they play big schools, he's shown he's belonged.

Is he a #1 pick?

If the Texans are holding that pick, they have no choice but to take him.

He also plays in a low NFL talent conference, so it evens out. Besides, I wouldn't spend a number one pick on Garrard or leftwich. Hopefully some team loves Teddy and is willing to trade the farm for him.

gafftop
12-08-2013, 12:16 AM
He also plays in a low NFL talent conference, so it evens out. Besides, I wouldn't spend a number one pick on Garrard or leftwich. Hopefully some team loves Teddy and is willing to trade the farm for him.

Would be great to get an RGIII type trade. We have a lot of holes on D.
Don't see a can't miss QB. Huge crap shoot picking any of the QB's coming out this year.

The Pencil Neck
12-08-2013, 12:21 AM
IF Bridgewater is The Guy, then I want him on this team.

But if not, I'd love to trade back and get some more picks.

Smith has shown in the past that he's not averse to doing that.

burro
12-08-2013, 02:37 PM
I am a UH Grad and went to and saw Keenum play MANY games while I was there. It should go without saying I am probably one of his biggest fans and die hard supporters.

With that said... He's gone 0-7. Regardless of how close he might have came all of those games, he's gone 0-7. That includes 3 games to the Jags and Raiders with a first time starting QB. Those teams are dumpster fires and if Case can't beat them after half a season, then I'm sorry, but QB is the most pressing position there is.

The Colts with ALL of their flaws (and everyone knows a 2-14 team has them) took at QB #1 and made the playoffs at 11-5 the next year with one major change... the #1 pick.

If there is one thing that's been made clear, its that the Texans are the league's true dumpster fire and expecting Case to not get burned by it is unfair.

Look at Schaub's stat line from 07-08. It's not miles and away better than what we're getting out of Keenum now, who is playing with an infinitely worse team amidst the complete collapse of a coaching regime that never wanted him to start in the first place. Schaub went on to put up some great numbers for us and may have led us to SB in 2011 if not for a season ending injury.

Keenum has earned a fair shot - meaning an offseason to develop with the intention of starting, a healthy team, and a coaching staff that believes in him enough to build the system around him (Kubiak's mess of an impromptu spread offense doesn't count).

If Keenum gets that fair chance next season and tanks, fine. Until then, we have bigger problems than QB to correct with a first overall pick.

Honoring Earl 34
12-08-2013, 02:41 PM
IF Bridgewater is The Guy, then I want him on this team.

But if not, I'd love to trade back and get some more picks.

Smith has shown in the past that he's not averse to doing that.

The problem is someone would have a different opinion than you and deem Teddy a franchise QB to trade up .

drs23
12-08-2013, 09:46 PM
If there is one thing that's been made clear, its that the Texans are the league's true dumpster fire and expecting Case to not get burned by it is unfair.

Look at Schaub's stat line from 07-08. It's not miles and away better than what we're getting out of Keenum now, who is playing with an infinitely worse team amidst the complete collapse of a coaching regime that never wanted him to start in the first place. Schaub went on to put up some great numbers for us and may have led us to SB in 2011 if not for a season ending injury.

Keenum has earned a fair shot - meaning an offseason to develop with the intention of starting, a healthy team, and a coaching staff that believes in him enough to build the system around him (Kubiak's mess of an impromptu spread offense doesn't count).

If Keenum gets that fair chance next season and tanks, fine. Until then, we have bigger problems than QB to correct with a first overall pick.

These are my thoughts as well. The obvious is how "new" will the new regime be? It's going to be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

Norg
12-08-2013, 11:28 PM
we

extended CUSHING
SCHAUB
FOSTER
ANDRE



and this will come back to hurt of us from years to come

I was discussing this with my co workers and they said all 4 of these should be gone this off season cuz they will take us no were

We have lost our 3 Key players QB WR and RB and TE hell

and bob thinks we will not be rebuilding and keep rick smith pfff he is in for a rude awaking if he goes with this plan starting next year

infantrycak
12-08-2013, 11:29 PM
we

extended CUSHING
SCHAUB
FOSTER
ANDRE



and this will come back to hurt of us from years to come

I was discussing this with my co workers and they said all 4 of these should be gone this off season cuz they will take us no were

You need new friends.

Norg
12-08-2013, 11:31 PM
You need new friends.

its true


Scahub is gone

Andre is older and he does not even want to be here anymore

Foster is a bum now ever since he got payed and he himself said he wants a life after football

and cushing is coming back post 2nd serious injury u don't even know how that will turn out

and OD well hes just done a TE leftover from the old regime

bhsman
12-08-2013, 11:40 PM
The only one of those extensions that was even considered questionable at the time was Foster, and only because we slightly overpaid in the first year.

The Pencil Neck
12-08-2013, 11:42 PM
The problem is someone would have a different opinion than you and deem Teddy a franchise QB to trade up .

OR they deem someone else worthy of trading up for.

I don't know if Teddy or anyone else in this draft is "the guy", yet. We haven't even gotten to the Combine. There's going to be a lot of rising and falling on draft charts for the next few months and in the end, there are going to be 32 draft charts that are secret and are very different than each other and very different from what the "experts" put out there... and those are going to be the only ones that matter.

With the rookie salary caps in place, it's going to be much easier to negotiate deals than it used to be.

Texanmike02
12-08-2013, 11:54 PM
If there is one thing that's been made clear, its that the Texans are the league's true dumpster fire and expecting Case to not get burned by it is unfair.

Look at Schaub's stat line from 07-08. It's not miles and away better than what we're getting out of Keenum now, who is playing with an infinitely worse team amidst the complete collapse of a coaching regime that never wanted him to start in the first place. Schaub went on to put up some great numbers for us and may have led us to SB in 2011 if not for a season ending injury.

Keenum has earned a fair shot - meaning an offseason to develop with the intention of starting, a healthy team, and a coaching staff that believes in him enough to build the system around him (Kubiak's mess of an impromptu spread offense doesn't count).

If Keenum gets that fair chance next season and tanks, fine. Until then, we have bigger problems than QB to correct with a first overall pick.

If you have the number 1 pick and you have an opportunity to pick a franchise QB you take it. Case hasn't earned "a real shot". There is no such thing as earning a real shot. Manning had won a Superbowl and is the best QB (or at least in the top 3) in history. Had he "earned a shot to show his neck was better"? No he got cut because Indy had a shot to draft the next great QB. Tebow had just led his team to a playoff victory. Had he earned a shot? No. Denver went out and got Manning and pretty much ended his career.

If you manage a team with the philosophy that people "earn a shot" then you won't ever win squat. It sucks but it is the way it is. If we operate with "Case has earned a shot" and pass on a QB because of that we probably improve and become an 8 win team and you get stuck in mediocrity.

There is no harder position to fill than QB. It is the only position in which you cannot hide a serious deficiency. Case has shown a very significant weakness that you really can't hide. He already feels pressure that isn't there. If you think he has a future in the NFL that's fine. Keep him on the roster and hope for a Drew Brees type situation where you develop him and get something for him but if you have a shot at a potential franchise QB you take it.

And I can't stress enough. He looked good before teams had a chance to view film on him. The last 4 defenses he has faced have made him look below average. He's thrown an INT in each of the last 4 games.

Contrast that with Foles last year. He looked bad to start out and got better as the year went on.



Mike

TexansFTW
12-09-2013, 12:37 PM
You mean NFL scouts saying that's he's still as amazing as we all thought, and that the stats don't tell the whole story?

Nah, not what I mean. Are you still watching that 2012 highlight over and over again and not watching what's happening this season?

Notable draft people, not me:

"Once again, Clowney is an elite prospect from a talent perspective, but has work-ethic issues. The Buccaneers will have to worry about him quitting or taking too many trips to Mons Venus, but they'll ultimately take a chance on him because of his ability."

I'm not discounting Clowney's skill or ability, I am just saying that is not a guy that can create a +8 in the Win/Loss category like the true game changer in this draft Teddy Bridgewater can.

Don't forget that DEs are the highest paid positions on the defensive side of the ball and you are about to give Mario Williams money to JJ Watt. You can't sink $180 million into a defensive line which is what will be the story in 4 years which means you are either renting JJ Watt or Clowney for 4 years.

And what if Case stays around and Clowney gives us +4 wins so we are 6-10? Now we get to draft a QB at pick #10. Cool, so we get a Jake Locker type guy and draft the 4th best QB in the draft. 4 years later we are still 6-10, lose either Watt or Clowney, and haven't made the playoffs once in the process.

No sir, I don't want to become the Browns.

TexansFTW
12-09-2013, 01:00 PM
He also plays in a low NFL talent conference, so it evens out. Besides, I wouldn't spend a number one pick on Garrard or leftwich. Hopefully some team loves Teddy and is willing to trade the farm for him.

First of all, what is this comparison to Garrard and Leftwich and why is it given ANY validation? This is just a guy picking 2 Black QBs out of a hat and comparing Bridgewater to them.

Secondly, It does not matter. If he's got the ability and tools that's all that matters. Louisville was not a good team when he became the starting QB and they won't be a good team after.

He only got 1 shot at your "NFL talent" (This is crap though, but a different debate in itself) conference in the Sugar Bowl last year and led a team that beat the hell out of #3 Florida in that game.

What if I told you that 2 recent Super Bowl winning QBs didn't play "NFL Talent" and weren't worthy of a high draft pick (I assume what you're implying)? Step forward Joe Flacco and Ben Ro.

Many other successful QBs that didn't play this "NFL talent": Romo, Alex Smith, Colin Kaep, etc.

Find me a guy that plays against "NFL talent", surrounded by no "NFL Talent", and beats them. You will find yourself staring at Teddy Bridgewater.

Norg
12-09-2013, 01:10 PM
Nah, not what I mean. Are you still watching that 2012 highlight over and over again and not watching what's happening this season?

Notable draft people, not me:

"Once again, Clowney is an elite prospect from a talent perspective, but has work-ethic issues. The Buccaneers will have to worry about him quitting or taking too many trips to Mons Venus, but they'll ultimately take a chance on him because of his ability."

I'm not discounting Clowney's skill or ability, I am just saying that is not a guy that can create a +8 in the Win/Loss category like the true game changer in this draft Teddy Bridgewater can.

Don't forget that DEs are the highest paid positions on the defensive side of the ball and you are about to give Mario Williams money to JJ Watt. You can't sink $180 million into a defensive line which is what will be the story in 4 years which means you are either renting JJ Watt or Clowney for 4 years.

And what if Case stays around and Clowney gives us +4 wins so we are 6-10? Now we get to draft a QB at pick #10. Cool, so we get a Jake Locker type guy and draft the 4th best QB in the draft. 4 years later we are still 6-10, lose either Watt or Clowney, and haven't made the playoffs once in the process.

No sir, I don't want to become the Browns.

to late what is it 63 years and no SUPER BOWL title LOL

never even been to the SB LOL

bhsman
12-09-2013, 01:14 PM
Nah, not what I mean. Are you still watching that 2012 highlight over and over again and not watching what's happening this season?

I've watched more of his 2013 tape than his 2012 tape, and I suggest you do the same.