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Lord Bills
11-24-2013, 04:01 PM
Even though Texans coach Gary Kubiak said he benched rookie wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins for “a lot of mistakes” early in last week’s loss to the Raiders, Hopkins had a different view.

“It was one route that I messed up on,” Hopkins said, via Dave Zangaro of CSNHouston.com. “I guess I didn’t have that much room to mess up on, so one play got me benched.”

Hopkins returned to the game, and played 46 of the team’s 73 offensive snaps. But he caught just one pass for 7 yards. For the season, he has 38 catches for 546 yards and two scores.

“I wasn’t too happy because I’m a competitive person,” he said. “I like to be out on the field. It wasn’t a happy feeling.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/22/hopkins-thinks-he-was-benched-because-of-one-play/

Just another sad mark against Kubiak if true.

Texanmike02
11-24-2013, 04:03 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/22/hopkins-thinks-he-was-benched-because-of-one-play/

Just another sad mark against Kubiak if true.

But it is Hopkins. Don't know who to believe.

Mike

amazing80
11-24-2013, 04:05 PM
old news, was from last week

ziggy29
11-24-2013, 04:05 PM
The bottom line to me is that this coaching staff has lost the team so much that the players have increasingly little regard for keeping everything in the locker room.

Lord Bills
11-24-2013, 04:10 PM
old news, was from last week

didnt see it posted. its not like we cant use some new threads on this site. too many old threads stay up.

The bottom line to me is that this coaching staff has lost the team so much that the players have increasingly little regard for keeping everything in the locker room.

or the coaching staff in the hot seat overreacting and compensating for their incompetence and failure this year by instituting draconian zero tolerance policy and taking out their frustrations by over-disciplining their players.

See the keenum benching
See the hopkins benching
See the cutting of 3 young players who could have helped us now

TexansSeminole
11-24-2013, 04:17 PM
I never saw this. Kubiak can't gtfo out of here fast enough.

Lord Bills
11-24-2013, 04:19 PM
I never saw this. Kubiak can't gtfo out of here fast enough.

absolutely.

everybody is held accountable except for matt schaub, kubiak, joe marciano, and rick smith.

Uncle Rico
11-24-2013, 04:21 PM
Hopkins isn't immune he has made his fair share of mistskes. Atrocious run blocker and worse speed than I ever imagined. But he's a rookie so let's just give him a pass and keep piling on Kubiak and blaming him for not coaching how to run,block and catch.

If Hopkins made more plays and jacked off less then maybe he stays on the field. At this point I'd rather see Jean get more reps, he has legit speed at least.

Hervoyel
11-24-2013, 04:25 PM
Hopkins isn't immune he has made his fair share of mistskes. Atrocious run blocker and worse speed than I ever imagined. But he's a rookie so let's just give him a pass and keep piling on Kubiak and blaming him for not coaching how to run,block and catch.

If Hopkins made more plays and jacked off less then maybe he stays on the field. At this point I'd rather see Jean get more reps, he has legit speed at least.

Posey has every opportunity to eclipse him next year if he plays his cards right and doesn't face another injury. He's everything Hopkins was supposed to be.

TexansSeminole
11-24-2013, 04:26 PM
Hopkins isn't immune he has made his fair share of mistskes. Atrocious run blocker and worse speed than I ever imagined. But he's a rookie so let's just give him a pass and keep piling on Kubiak and blaming him for not coaching how to run,block and catch.

If Hopkins made more plays and jacked off less then maybe he stays on the field. At this point I'd rather see Jean get more reps, he has legit speed at least.

Jean has been given 2 years now and he hasn't accomplished a damn thing. Hopkins accomplished more in 2 games. Weird, out of touch comment.

This is 2013, remember? Not 2012.

Uncle Rico
11-24-2013, 04:30 PM
Posey has every opportunity to eclipse him next year if he plays his cards right and doesn't face another injury. He's everything Hopkins was supposed to be.

Hell yeah I agree, Posey is a playmaker. Where has he been? I'd be more upset with not putting out the best talent vs catering to a belly aching 1st round pick who isn't getting it done and isn't entitled to ****.

Lord Bills
11-24-2013, 04:30 PM
Hopkins isn't immune he has made his fair share of mistskes. Atrocious run blocker and worse speed than I ever imagined. But he's a rookie so let's just give him a pass and keep piling on Kubiak and blaming him for not coaching how to run,block and catch.

If Hopkins made more plays and jacked off less then maybe he stays on the field. At this point I'd rather see Jean get more reps, he has legit speed at least.

who drafted him?

Mr teX
11-24-2013, 04:30 PM
Hopkins isn't immune he has made his fair share of mistskes. Atrocious run blocker and worse speed than I ever imagined. But he's a rookie so let's just give him a pass and keep piling on Kubiak and blaming him for not coaching how to run,block and catch.

If Hopkins made more plays and jacked off less then maybe he stays on the field. At this point I'd rather see Jean get more reps, he has legit speed at least.

All these guys arent playing up to their potential b/c we dont really have a qb....but lestar jean.....he's had 2 years.....he's trash.

he's 1 step removed from where he should be....out of the league.

Lord Bills
11-24-2013, 04:31 PM
Hell yeah I agree, Posey is a playmaker. Where has he been? I'd be more upset with not putting out the best talent vs catering to a belly aching 1st round pick who isn't getting it done and isn't entitled to ****.

havent we heard this before about the texans?

Uncle Rico
11-24-2013, 04:35 PM
Jean has been given 2 years now and he hasn't accomplished a damn thing. Hopkins accomplished more in 2 games. Weird, out of touch comment.

This is 2013, remember? Not 2012.

I'm not going to go nuts and say Jean is an answer, only that he has more speed than anyone on the corps.

Speed kills, once the tape was out dbs just play soft cushion ob Hopkins and keep him in front, no risk of breaking away.

Today he finally makes seperation on the last drive, pass hits him ob the hands in stride and he crapped the bed.

TexansSeminole
11-24-2013, 04:37 PM
I'm not going to go nuts and say Jean is an answer, only that he has more speed than anyone on the corps.

Speed kills, once the tape was out dbs just play soft cushion ob Hopkins and keep him in front, no risk of breaking away.

Today he finally makes seperation on the last drive, pass hits him ob the hands in stride and he crapped the bed.

Can't take you seriously.

Ya, let's bench Hopkins for Jean.

One of the worst ideas I have read today.

Uncle Rico
11-24-2013, 04:39 PM
havent we heard this before about the texans?

Kubiak is out, I mean its beating a dead horse, why not lump this thread into the fire kubiak thread since that's what its become.

I just won't give nuke a pass that easily.

Uncle Rico
11-24-2013, 04:44 PM
Can't take you seriously.

Ya, let's bench Hopkins for Jean.

One of the worst ideas I have read today.

Great conclusion making skills. I say play guys who make plays, if Hopkins isn't doing squat out there then put other guys out there and give them a shot, don't force feed the same tired players during a 2-9 season under a pretense that they give you the best chance to win. Mix it up, do something different.

Carr Bombed
11-24-2013, 06:34 PM
This goes back to the whole "I have no problems holding a player accountable and pulling a player.. especially the QB" comment.

You are what you are and Kubiak sounded like a fake ass tough coach, which goes against everything he has been.. to now act tough or attempt to hold people "accountable" it just comes off as fake toughness and like you're forcing it, and players can see straight through it (and we wonder why Andre walked off the field :rolleyes:).. once they do, you lose the lockerroom.

That's when it's time to move on.,

I mean how the hell does this guy even try to put on that persona when we still employ the crap STs coach and kicker. He basically said, "hey guys, when it's my neck in the ringer, you better not make any mistakes (like I have) or else" It's not until his ass is in the slinger that he talks and acts like this. Players can sense that and it's a little to late coach, the train has already left the station. If you're going to go into self preservation mode, then so will they.

Exhibit A why Kubiak needs to be let go tomorrow. That's one thing I'll give Capers.. no matter how many games he lost or how much he sucked, he never changed who he was.

Hervoyel
11-24-2013, 06:53 PM
This is one of those things where no matter what the truth is the coach ends up looking bad. If he pulled Hopkins for one mistake then that's stupid and pointless. If he pulled Hopkins for a bunch of things he's doing wrong and yet Hopkins is under the impression that it was about a single mistake on a single play then Kubiak's not reaching his players anymore. He's not communicating with them OR they don't give a damn what he says and are just hearing what they want to hear.

Either what it amounts to is that if Bob or Rick or Gary thinks that Kubiak hasn't lost the locker room they don't know what it means to lose the locker room. These guys are Gary's friends. They aren't his guys.

kingtexan
11-24-2013, 07:04 PM
I will take Hopkins over Kubiak ...

Carr Bombed
11-24-2013, 07:06 PM
This is one of those things where no matter what the truth is the coach ends up looking bad. If he pulled Hopkins for one mistake then that's stupid and pointless. If he pulled Hopkins for a bunch of things he's doing wrong and yet Hopkins is under the impression that it was about a single mistake on a single play then Kubiak's not reaching his players anymore. He's not communicating with them OR they don't give a damn what he says and are just hearing what they want to hear.

Either what it amounts to is that if Bob or Rick or Gary thinks that Kubiak hasn't lost the locker room they don't know what it means to lose the locker room. These guys are Gary's friends. They aren't his guys.

The problem I have is how many rookies has this team drafted in the first round did Gary and his crew allow to make mistake after mistake, who didn't show a ounce of potential that Hopkins has ... and it's not like Hopkins has fallen on his face out there.

The guy has come off as a complete fake in recent weeks, which players who've been there through the years and have seen how you've treated other players will pick up on that (they aren't stupid) Kubiak comes off as a complete fake and needs to go. Honestly I'd fire him a tomorrow if nothing else than just to send a message.. Capers didn't even do this crap.

texanhead08
11-24-2013, 07:09 PM
Gary Kubiak only uses one WR in his offense so what the **** are we bitching about anyway.

DexmanC
11-24-2013, 07:32 PM
The problem I have is how many rookies has this team drafted in the first round did Gary and his crew allow to make mistake after mistake, who didn't show a ounce of potential that Hopkins has ... and it's not like Hopkins has fallen on his face out there.

The guy has come off as a complete fake in recent weeks, which players who've been there through the years and have seen how you've treated other players will pick up on that (they aren't stupid) Kubiak comes off as a complete fake and needs to go. Honestly I'd fire him a tomorrow if nothing else than just to send a message.. Capers didn't even do this crap.

In the streets, we call it "acting brand new," and it will get one's ass beat fast. Looks like Kubiak has finally lost this locker room.

On another note:

Kubiak shows a penchant for giving marginally talented players unlimited rope (Newton, Studdard, David Anderson, Petey Faggins, Ron Dayne, etc.,) while being absurdly tyrannical to those with "plus" talent (Jacoby Jones, Hopkins, Trindon Holliday, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, etc.) Must be something to be said about that.

TexansSeminole
11-24-2013, 07:53 PM
Great conclusion making skills. I say play guys who make plays, if Hopkins isn't doing squat out there then put other guys out there and give them a shot, don't force feed the same tired players during a 2-9 season under a pretense that they give you the best chance to win. Mix it up, do something different.


If Hopkins made more plays and jacked off less then maybe he stays on the field. At this point I'd rather see Jean get more reps, he has legit speed at least.

What conclusion am I to arrive at?

You're out of touch. It's true on the majority of Texans topics.

Seegara
11-24-2013, 07:54 PM
Today on Texans' penultimate offensive play Hop dropped a pass at the most critical time possible. Messing up seems 2 B what he does best.

Carr Bombed
11-24-2013, 08:16 PM
Today on Texans' penultimate offensive play Hop dropped a pass at the most critical time possible. Messing up seems 2 B what he does best.

Andre messed up last week.. Hopkins was a big part in our two wins (so is that not what he also does best) receivers drop passes and make mistakes, so who cares.

That isn't even the point. The point here is when a player has now made mistakes (especially a rookie who has won you games and has shown promise) he's now benched. It's about a head coach who all of a sudden is going to call people out on the carpet and in front of the green table when he has never down that before. (and how convenient to only target rookies) It reeks of self preservation and he comes off as a complete phony... especially when he doesn't do it until his it's his balls in the clamp.

That's a problem and veterans that have been here and have played with other rookies that were allowed to fall on their face time and time again pick up on it.

chicagotexan2
11-24-2013, 08:52 PM
Great conclusion making skills. I say play guys who make plays, if Hopkins isn't doing squat out there then put other guys out there and give them a shot, don't force feed the same tired players during a 2-9 season under a pretense that they give you the best chance to win. Mix it up, do something different.

This from the guy who advocates putting Schaub in for keenum and was against benching Schaub.

Carr Bombed
11-24-2013, 09:11 PM
In the streets, we call it "acting brand new," and it will get one's ass beat fast. Looks like Kubiak has finally lost this locker room.

On another note:

Kubiak shows a penchant for giving marginally talented players unlimited rope (Newton, Studdard, David Anderson, Petey Faggins, Ron Dayne, etc.,) while being absurdly tyrannical to those with "plus" talent (Jacoby Jones, Hopkins, Trindon Holliday, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, etc.) Must be something to be said about that.

Us white folk call it acting like punks :) Kubiak has been a straight punk the last couple of weeks (and about the whole situation) and he needs to be relieved of his duties. Capers went out like a man and took his medicine, Kubiak is going out like a punk.

Vinny
11-25-2013, 09:16 AM
In the streets, we call it "acting brand new," and it will get one's ass beat fast. Looks like Kubiak has finally lost this locker room.

On another note:

Kubiak shows a penchant for giving marginally talented players unlimited rope (Newton, Studdard, David Anderson, Petey Faggins, Ron Dayne, etc.,) while being absurdly tyrannical to those with "plus" talent (Jacoby Jones, Hopkins, Trindon Holliday, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, etc.) Must be something to be said about that.
It's almost like Kubiak surrounds himself with players that remind him of himself. Kubiak was a back up player with no serious ability to start. He had to work hard to keep his spot. I guess that's why he didn't put TJ Yates in one time this season but was the back up QB every game untill Schaub gets replaced...by the 3rd stringer.

As to Hopkins...dude was getting retribution for his penis picture. That's how the Texans roll.

Rey
11-25-2013, 12:10 PM
Kubiak is a fraud. He's a mediocre head coach who is a stones throw away from being a poor head coach.

Playoffs
11-25-2013, 12:21 PM
Hopkins hasn't all of a sudden become a bad pick.

He and Larry Fitzgerald are the only WRs with zero dropped catchable balls in 2013 (>50% of team snaps.) He made a nice catch of Keenum's out-of-bounds TD attempt.

Throw him the damn ball. Let him make those contested catches. He does it. So does AJ.

TexanBacker93
11-25-2013, 12:21 PM
It's almost like Kubiak surrounds himself with players that remind him of himself. Kubiak was a back up player with no serious ability to start. He had to work hard to keep his spot. I guess that's why he didn't put TJ Yates in one time this season but was the back up QB every game untill Schaub gets replaced...by the 3rd stringer.

As to Hopkins...dude was getting retribution for his penis picture. That's how the Texans roll.

Not true at all. He had great ability to start.

His problem was he wanted to be in the NFL and his skill set was better suited for recreational leagues.

Double Barrel
11-25-2013, 12:29 PM
Hopkins hasn't all of a sudden become a bad pick.

He and Larry Fitzgerald are the only WRs with zero dropped catchable balls in 2013 (>50% of team snaps.) He made a nice catch of Keenum's out-of-bounds TD attempt.

Throw him the damn ball. Let him make those contested catches. He does it. So does AJ.

yep. Hopkins is a rookie, and no doubt the stench of a garbage season is making an impression on him. He didn't all of a sudden lose his talent. It's just not being coached up.

Honoring Earl 34
11-25-2013, 12:41 PM
Kubiak is a fraud. He's a mediocre head coach who is a stones throw away from being a poor head coach.

The 2011 team reminds me of the 1991 Oilers . That team was stacked by Mike Holovak but couldn't figure it out in the playoffs . So Bud , like Bob , brought in an old veteran DC who improved things greatly in the short term , only to have them come apart like a cheap rug in a couple of years . To be honest , the Texans couldn't touch the 91 Oilers .

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/1991_roster.htm

Uncle Rico
11-25-2013, 02:07 PM
This from the guy who advocates putting Schaub in for keenum and was against benching Schaub.

I've already challenged another long time contributor to this site to repost the entry that validates your claim. Truth of the matter people get mad when they are wrong and hate my passive/aggressive takes. Whstevs I call it like I see it and until you can provide the board with proof of that ridiculous claim of yours, you too will just be another butt hurt liar. Go ahead and click ignore next to my avatar and save everybody a bunch of time.

For the record, if I was trying to advocate anything it was that the future QB was not on this roster.

Texn4life
12-12-2013, 11:12 PM
Didn't want to create another thread because of this, but I can't be the only one who's frustrated watching Keenan Allen get better and better during his rookie year while ours is being under utilized. This may be one of Kubiak's biggest failures in my opinion. His inability to develop young wideouts. I don't doubt Hopkin's talent at all, but he needs to become a bigger part of the offense.

I won't even mention the fact that Allen was mocked to us by quite a few people before his injury issues popped up. That kid looks good though.

JB
12-12-2013, 11:15 PM
Didn't want to create another thread because of this, but I can't be the only one who's frustrated watching Keenan Allen get better and better during his rookie year while ours is being under utilized. This may be one of Kubiak's biggest failures in my opinion. His inability to develope young wideouts. I don't doubt Hopkin's talent at all, but he needs to become a bigger part of the offense.

I won't even mention the fact that Allen was mocked to us by quite a few people before his injury issues popped up. That kid looks good though.

Don't worry, Kubiak is gone, never to screw up another Texan

Uncle Rico
12-13-2013, 09:43 AM
Allen creates great seperation at the line of scrimmage and is just faster than Hopkins. he can take a crossing route and turn it into a big play. Nuke will be a possession slot type guy before long, not a true #2 due to inability to blow by guys.

We should have taken Cordarrelle Patterson. Allen is nice, but he doesn't have 4.4 speed either.

thunderkyss
12-14-2013, 03:27 PM
Allen creates great seperation at the line of scrimmage and is just faster than Hopkins. he can take a crossing route and turn it into a big play. Nuke will be a possession slot type guy before long, not a true #2 due to inability to blow by guys.

We should have taken Cordarrelle Patterson. Allen is nice, but he doesn't have 4.4 speed either.

Do you believe speed is the end-all-be-all of getting separation?

Playoffs
12-14-2013, 05:18 PM
Do you believe speed is the end-all-be-all of getting separation?...signed, 4.71 40 yard dash.

JB
12-14-2013, 05:20 PM
Do you believe speed is the end-all-be-all of getting separation?


No, but it sure don't hurt

Uncle Rico
12-15-2013, 11:08 AM
Do you believe speed is the end-all-be-all of getting separation?

In short Yes. Obviously technique, hand use and body control have alot to do with it, but if the DBs dont fear you running by them then they just keep you in front and minimize the big play.

Hopkins by stats alone is having a good year; however his blocking is awful and his maturity has come into question with the whole jack off video. Room for improvement? No doubt, but can he get faster? Not so sure. Speed is a major component to being a great WR, is it not? Am I missing something?

infantrycak
12-15-2013, 11:12 AM
In short Yes. Obviously technique, hand use and body control have alot to do with it, but if the DBs dont fear you running by them then they just keep you in front and minimize the big play.

You might want to check out the most successful WRs in league history and see how many of them are faster than AJ.

The bold just begs the truism easier said than done.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 11:28 AM
In short Yes. Obviously technique, hand use and body control have alot to do with it, but if the DBs dont fear you running by them then they just keep you in front and minimize the big play.

Hopkins by stats alone is having a good year; however his blocking is awful and his maturity has come into question with the whole jack off video. Room for improvement? No doubt, but can he get faster? Not so sure. Speed is a major component to being a great WR, is it not? Am I missing something?

Speed is and always has been the most overrated aspect of a WR in the NFL. Sure they can't be slow, but all of these top speed guys like Ginn Jr, and Santana Moss types usually aren't that great either. The WR position requires a ton of different skills and some guys are extremely quick, but don't have great top end speed. Some guys have great moves outside of their routes, and some guys are great route runners like Harrison and Reggie Wayne. Fitzgerald isn't that fast at all, but I've watched him blow by guys for years with his instincts and great route running. Jerry Rice wasn't ever close to being one of the fasted guys in the league. Look at the history of all of the best WR's of the NFL and most of them haven't been speed demons at the position.

Uncle Rico
12-15-2013, 11:29 AM
You might want to check out the most successful WRs in league history and see how many of them are faster than AJ.

The bold just begs the truism easier said than done.

Andre Johnson was a collegiate champion sprinter. His speed was a major factor to his early success. He's adjusted his play as he's aged and shown why in fact he is a true HOF'er.

Biletnikoff was slow. Maybe Chris Carter? Other than that Im drawing blanks as to slow HOF caliber receivers.

JB
12-15-2013, 11:37 AM
Andre Johnson was a collegiate champion sprinter. His speed was a major factor to his early success. He's adjusted his play as he's aged and shown why in fact he is a true HOF'er.

Biletnikoff was slow. Maybe Chris Carter? Other than that Im drawing blanks as to slow HOF caliber receivers.

Jerry Rice?

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 11:39 AM
Andre Johnson was a collegiate champion sprinter. His speed was a major factor to his early success. He's adjusted his play as he's aged and shown why in fact he is a true HOF'er.

Biletnikoff was slow. Maybe Chris Carter? Other than that Im drawing blanks as to slow HOF caliber receivers.

Where did Cak or anyone use the word slow??? He was stating that WR's don't have to be top speed WR's to be great WR's that consistently get separation. No one mentioned they could be "slow."

beerlover
12-15-2013, 11:50 AM
track speed does not always project directly to football speed but usually somewhere in between.

Uncle Rico
12-15-2013, 11:56 AM
Great responses, and like I also stated speed isnt the end all be all.

With that said I would prefer a WR who has sub 4.7 speed, Nuke was clocked at 4.57 which isnt bad at all, but I just watch him play and he's just slow to the eye. Nice hands, size all that other stuff but he hasnt been the gamechanger most thought he would be by far.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 12:56 PM
Great responses, and like I also stated speed isnt the end all be all.

With that said I would prefer a WR who has sub 4.7 speed, Nuke was clocked at 4.57 which isnt bad at all, but I just watch him play and he's just slow to the eye. Nice hands, size all that other stuff but he hasnt been the gamechanger most thought he would be by far.

I'd like to know what the difference in speed is with him and Fitzgerald which is who he reminds me of. Fitz has never been that fast, but can get separation all of the time. Fitz might be a little faster, but it can't be by much.

infantrycak
12-15-2013, 01:41 PM
I'd like to know what the difference in speed is with him and Fitzgerald which is who he reminds me of. Fitz has never been that fast, but can get separation all of the time. Fitz might be a little faster, but it can't be by much.

.06 seconds advantage Fitz.

htownfan32
12-15-2013, 01:43 PM
Watching some of today's game, it's evident Hopkins' lack of receptions is not because of him. Keenum just locks on to either Ryan Griffin or Andre and does not look anywhere else at all.

welsh texan
12-15-2013, 01:55 PM
Watching some of today's game, it's evident Hopkins' lack of receptions is not because of him. Keenum just locks on to either Ryan Griffin or Andre and does not look anywhere else at all.

He's probably seen more of griffin in practice and knows he can trust AJ.

If you were out there are you likely to be risking throwing DeAndre open in coverage when there are 2 guys you know better across the field. Jmo.

But yeah, we need a QB, jury is out on DHop as a long term fix to WR2.

Uncle Rico
12-15-2013, 02:03 PM
In all fairness, Fitzgerald was a consensus player at his position and was drafted 3rd overall. His rookie numbers are comparable to Hopkins. Fitz has run off 100 catch/1000 yard seasons with ease, he attacks the ball better and is a better leaper to get it at the apex. He's a better receiver than Hopkins, by far.

Hopkins is a nice player, IMO not the best WR in that draft and the Texans went with a safe pick, instead of trying to hit a home run. Terrance Williams, Keenan Allen, and Cordarrelle Patterson are all more dynamic players IMO. Long term will any of them be better or worse than one another whose to say?

Speed Kills. Has always been true. Will always be true.

Texecutioner
12-15-2013, 02:21 PM
In all fairness, Fitzgerald was a consensus player at his position and was drafted 3rd overall. His rookie numbers are comparable to Hopkins. Fitz has run off 100 catch/1000 yard seasons with ease, he attacks the ball better and is a better leaper to get it at the apex. He's a better receiver than Hopkins, by far.

Hopkins is a nice player, IMO not the best WR in that draft and the Texans went with a safe pick, instead of trying to hit a home run. Terrance Williams, Keenan Allen, and Cordarrelle Patterson are all more dynamic players IMO. Long term will any of them be better or worse than one another whose to say?

Speed Kills. Has always been true. Will always be true.

Of course it does, but it is not nearly as important as you are trying to make it seem by acting like all WR's have to be track stars running 4'3 speeds to be highly productive WR's in the league. The fact is they don't and there have been countless examples all over the league for years. Roddy White, Fitz, Jimmy Smith, Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, Michael Irvin, Keyshawn Johnson, Miles Austin (Before getting hurt), Marques Coltston (Slow as hell), Anquan Boldin (Slow as hell), and countless others. There are all types of different receivers that find ways to be successful whether it's size, speed, route running and intelligence, beating the jam well, and chemistry with their QB. I know the types of WR's that I've always hated the most are the speedsters that typically are only good at one route which is the post where they just fly up the field for long balls. Guys like Santana Moss, Ginn Jr, Jacoby Jones, Lee Evans, Torrey Smith, and many others are generally one trick ponies that catch your occasional bomb for a big play, but aren't consistent WR's all over the field. They just depend on their speed and they don't develop the typical "football skills" it takes to be an all-around versatile WR.

And regarding Fitz, you just made my point. He does all of these other things well to compensate for his lack of speed and he is one of the greatest WR's to ever step on the field. He has worked at every aspect of the position. Hopkins may not ever be an every year pro bowler, but he does several things well which is to jump out towards the ball, he goes up strong, has great hands, and he is pretty good at getting open. He made quite a few mistakes on the field this season and has a lot to work on, but the kid is a freaking rookie. WR is known as one of the top 3 positions to transition to in the NFL along with CB. Most WR's don't have their big year until year 3 on average. You are nit picking him at this point. He has had a pretty good rookie season for a guy that had Schaub throwing to him and Kubiak as the OC on a team that is the worst in the league. Cut the guy some slack.

thunderkyss
12-15-2013, 04:32 PM
In short Yes. Obviously technique, hand use and body control have alot to do with it, but if the DBs dont fear you running by them then they just keep you in front and minimize the big play.

Hopkins by stats alone is having a good year; however his blocking is awful and his maturity has come into question with the whole jack off video. Room for improvement? No doubt, but can he get faster? Not so sure. Speed is a major component to being a great WR, is it not? Am I missing something?

I'll agree that we need to identify & utilize our offensive speed better than we do. But the WR has a lot more advantages to work with than speed. The defense has no idea where he's going. I believe that's a WRs biggest advantage. DBs are just hoping WRs try to run past them. That's the easiest route to defend & the easiest to get help on.

We've got a lot of people saying they want to see less of Keshawn Martin. But he's our fastest receiver. I'd like to see him running less hitches & in routes and see him running more 9s to give our other receivers (RBs & TEs included) more field to work with.

Jacoby couldn't catch crap. But when he flew down the field, he attracted a lot of attention.

hradhak
12-15-2013, 07:47 PM
I'll agree that we need to identify & utilize our offensive speed better than we do. But the WR has a lot more advantages to work with than speed. The defense has no idea where he's going. I believe that's a WRs biggest advantage. DBs are just hoping WRs try to run past them. That's the easiest route to defend & the easiest to get help on.

We've got a lot of people saying they want to see less of Keshawn Martin. But he's our fastest receiver. I'd like to see him running less hitches & in routes and see him running more 9s to give our other receivers (RBs & TEs included) more field to work with.

Jacoby couldn't catch crap. But when he flew down the field, he attracted a lot of attention.

What has pissed me off the most about Keenum's play lately is that Hop is open down the field and Keenum is looking down at AJ. It happened today and it's happened in the past few games. He doesn't need to be the fastest guy if you have AJ drawing a lot of attention.

hookinreds
12-15-2013, 09:52 PM
Andre Johnson was a collegiate champion sprinter. His speed was a major factor to his early success. He's adjusted his play as he's aged and shown why in fact he is a true HOF'er.

Biletnikoff was slow. Maybe Chris Carter? Other than that Im drawing blanks as to slow HOF caliber receivers.

Largent

dalemurphy
12-16-2013, 04:04 AM
Andre Johnson was a collegiate champion sprinter. His speed was a major factor to his early success. He's adjusted his play as he's aged and shown why in fact he is a true HOF'er.

Biletnikoff was slow. Maybe Chris Carter? Other than that Im drawing blanks as to slow HOF caliber receivers.

Michael Irvin
Anquan Boldin
Steve Largeant
Larry Fitzgerald
Wes Welker
M. Colston
Stallworth

(I know some of these guys won't be HOFers... but, it's a pretty nice list.

HOU-TEX
12-16-2013, 09:12 AM
I'd much rather upgrade speed on defense before even thinking about anywhere else. Primarily our LB corps.

*Sorry, a little off topic

thunderkyss
12-16-2013, 10:28 AM
I'd much rather upgrade speed on defense before even thinking about anywhere else. Primarily our LB corps.

*Sorry, a little off topic

Our biggest issue on defense.... I think, is the coaching. These guys have no idea what they're going up against week in & week out. They're playing the man, not the ball. They're playing where the opponent is, not where he's going to be. They're two steps behind on every play.

Instead of forcing a team into doing what they don't want to do, what they're uncomfortable doing, we're trying to figure out what they are doing & minimize the damage.

Maybe if we had more speed we'd coach our guys to get ahead of an offense... but I don't think it's such an issue that we'd get away from that now. Wade's first year, we played fast, we played downhill, we dictated what we'd allow the offense to do. Now, we're on our heels trying to catch up.