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steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 11:02 AM
Rd.1 Jake Matthews- OT Texas A&M, 6'5 308 5.25, Matthews is an impact 10 yr starter, great runblocker who has the feet to be a dominate pass blocker too. High football IQ, great bloodlines.

Rd.2 Christin Jones- ILB-OLB, Fla St. 6'2 232 4.64, Jones is a fast tough instinctive LB that can play anywhere in the LB corps. He's a playmaker, something the Texans are sorely lacking. I've got the feeling he can be a pass rusher in the Dumerville role or if the new DC decides to play a 4-3 defense (Something I recommend) he would be a great WLB.

3.Ryan Carrethers- DT Arkansas St. 6'3 328 5.26, Former Wrestler with great quickness. I college he is as dominant as Wilfork is in the NFL. The only reason he falls this far is becuse he plays at a small school. This guy will become dominant in a couple of yrs. This is the guy to help shore up the run defense and keep OL off of cushing.

4. Deion Belue- CB Alabama, 5'11 183 4.48, Top cover guy, good instincts, solid tackler, although he's small was a top S recruit coming out of HS. Major upgrade over McCain. I would trade up if I had to and pick Belue in the bottom of the 3rd.

5. Jon Halapio- OG Florida 6'3 320 5.28, Halapio is a big strong tough guy who the Gators run behind when they need to run the football. Has started 33 games, while he isn't overly athletic Halapio is a football player. He reminds me of a bigger Briesel

5. DeAndre Coleman- DT California, 6'5 315 5.12, Coleman is a big athletic guy who plays on a crappy defense, but I like the fact that he never gives up despite his team gets blown out regularly. He has a chance to be a much better pro than college player. More help in transforming to ais 4-3.

6. Tyler Gaffney- RB Stanford 6'0 226 Stanford, 6'0 226 4.56, Tough, durable, workhorse RB, is always strongest in the 4th qtr. Great feel for the run game, good pass blocker, can catch the ball out of the backfield. Pro ready, Former pro baseball player.

7. Nehemiah Hicks- TE Texas A&M 6'4 255 4.68, Big target, good hands, good blocker. He has been unde used in the pass game but has made his presence felt in the un game. He has potential to be the blocking TE that this team has been missing. He need to get even stronger/bigger but the potential is their.

Corrosion
11-20-2013, 11:21 AM
If Rick & Gary are gone .... don't you think a new staff will want their guy at QB when they'll have their pick of the lot ?


I like that draft .... first three rounds are foundation pieces.

TexansSeminole
11-20-2013, 11:25 AM
I like Belue from what I have seen of him.

There are a couple of guys I haven't seen on this mock, but I like the positional choices and the rounds they were selected in. Adding two NTs is a nice idea, we need dline depth badly.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 11:39 AM
If Rick & Gary are gone .... don't you think a new staff will want their guy at QB when they'll have their pick of the lot ?


I like that draft .... first three rounds are foundation pieces.

Maybe, but the new regime may like Keenums tape. They may hold off until the 2015 draft that has Hogan/Winston/Petty, all better than the 2014 QB crop. IMHO

Texian
11-20-2013, 11:42 AM
If Rick & Gary are gone .... don't you think a new staff will want their guy at QB when they'll have their pick of the lot ?


I like that draft .... first three rounds are foundation pieces.

Agree, strong valid point. I'm thinking the first thing a new HC is going to analyze is do we have a QB who can make this thing work. Without a competitive QB we're just whistling in the wind. The likely answer is, no we do not. So how and where do we get one.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 11:43 AM
I like Belue from what I have seen of him.

There are a couple of guys I haven't seen on this mock, but I like the positional choices and the rounds they were selected in. Adding two NTs is a nice idea, we need dline depth badly.

This mock fixes the trenches. I'm really big on having good OL/DL. Watt nees some help. What do you think about my eval of Jones? Have you seen Halapio play? He's got toughness the OL is currently lacking.

beerlover
11-20-2013, 11:45 AM
Very Good with or without Kubiak, really nice job addressing problematic needs.

TexansSeminole
11-20-2013, 11:52 AM
This mock fixes the trenches. I'm reall big on having good OL/DL. Watt nees some help. What do you think about my eval of Jones? Have you seen Halapio play? He's got toughness the OL is currently lacking.

Jones evaluation seems spot on. I don't know where he ends up in the NFL. I think he was a better ILB, or OLB in a 4-3, than he is an edge pass rusher, but that may be due to experience at the position. I'm excited to see what he does at the combine.

The Gators have a nice running game, so I would assume that Halapio is a good run blocker, but I honestly haven't keyed on him specifically when watching the Gators. The Gators wear teams down with their running game, it's too bad they can't seem to do anything else on offense.

Only issue I have with this mock is that there isn't a QB taken.

Texian
11-20-2013, 12:08 PM
Maybe, but the new regime may like Keenums tape. They may hold off until the 2015 draft that has Hogan/Winston/Petty, all better than the 2014 QB crop. IMHO

What happens, what is your Plan B and long term plan, if say the Texans win 6 to 7 games in 2014 and that puts them out of any picture for any of the Top 3 QBs (Winston, Hogan, Petty) in 2015 draft? Conventional Wisdom says few if any of the 2015 class of QBs will meet their 2014 lofty expectations. For every Luck there are numerous Lienart, Young, Clausen, Gabbert, Locker, Sanchez, Barkley, Smith,Thomas etc, etc

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 12:08 PM
Jones evaluation seems spot on. I don't know where he ends up in the NFL. I think he was a better ILB, or OLB in a 4-3, than he is an edge pass rusher, but that may be due to experience at the position. I'm excited to see what he does at the combine.

The Gators have a nice running game, so I would assume that Halapio is a good run blocker, but I honestly haven't keyed on him specifically when watching the Gators. The Gators wear teams down with their running game, it's too bad they can't seem to do anything else on offense.

Only issue I have with this mock is that there isn't a QB taken.

Thanks for the reply

I dont like any of the QB's in this draft enough to spend a rd 1-3 pick on one. After that you may as well start throwing darts at you QB draft board. 2015 is a different story.

The QB I would consider taking in the 3rd rd is McCarron, I know how you feel about him. LOL I guess you aren't in love with this QB class either.

TexansSeminole
11-20-2013, 12:14 PM
Thanks for the reply

I dont like any of the QB's in this draft enough to spend a rd 1-3 pick on one. After that you may as well start throwing darts at you QB draft board. 2015 is a different story.

The QB I would consider taking in the 3rd rd is McCarron, I know how you feel about him. LOL I guess you aren't in love with this QB class either.

I don't have a problem with McCarron. I actually kind of like him, but it's so hard to evaluate him because of how dominant his running game and offensive line is. He makes plays when needed, it's just not often needed, especially in the clutch. I'd look at him in the 3rd round, but if I had my choice between McCarron and Murray in the 3rd, I am taking Murray.

Overall, I don't like this QB class just because of the guys at the top. I think Bridgewater could be special but it's hard to say that with any certainty because of his competition. Mariota may have something special actually, I just don't know because of the system he runs. Manziel, you know where I am at with Manziel. He can really throw the ball and I like his foot quickness a lot, but the character concerns and his style of play are concerning. I think he is going to get hurt too much to even develop. 5'11 185-195 is what I think he actually is. Hundley isn't ready, but I like what he can provide assuming he gets better against tough competition. I like Boyd, but I don't like his occasional inaccuracy and his throwing motion is kind of odd. I would actually take Boyd in the 2nd round, assuming he interviews really well. That FSU game doesn't concern me as much as it does others. Murray is probably my favorite, but can he overcome the height concern like Brees and Wilson have? I thought Wilson was a much better prospect, so I don't know. McCarron, I already talked about him.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 12:19 PM
What happens, what is your Plan B and long term plan, if say the Texans win 6 to 7 games in 2014 and that puts them out of any picture for any of the Top 3 QBs (Winston, Hogan, Petty) in 2015 draft? Conventional Wisdom says few if any of the 2015 class of QBs will meet their 2014 lofty expectations. For every Luck there are numerous Lienart, Young, Clausen, Gabbert, Locker, Sanchez, Barkley, Smith,Thomas etc, etc

What if the Texans spend a 1st in 2014 on Manziel and he doesn't pan out?

I would rather spend next season evaluating Case behind a fortified OL and if Case doesn't pan out trade up for one of the QB's in 2015. It will pobably cost two 1st's moving from 10-12 to 2-3, but I would rather take my chances on Keenum/Winston/Petty/Hogan than Bridgewater/Manziel/Mariota. That's my plan B. I get what your saying about needing a QB to answer Luck. But this yrs QB class is too risky for my taste.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 12:21 PM
Very Good with or without Kubiak, really nice job addressing problematic needs.

Great minds think alike. LOL

Thanks man it means alot coming fom one of the top ametuer talent evaluators on the MB.

Insideop
11-20-2013, 12:25 PM
You gave them 2 5th rounders. Is this assuming we get some compensation picks? Also, you said they are going back to a 4-3 defense, is this you assuming again? :shades:

Overall the picks look pretty good to me, but I have to think with a new regime, they will want their own QB, unless the coach is Sumlin. :)

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 12:25 PM
If Rick & Gary are gone .... don't you think a new staff will want their guy at QB when they'll have their pick of the lot ?


I like that draft .... first three rounds are foundation pieces.

Agreed

But the main problem with tht Texans to date is they dont have the solid foundation pieces. I dont know if it's Rick/Gary/Wade's fault but it is what it is. I do know that Rick ran the 2010 draft when Gary missed the combine. The results were a disaster.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 12:28 PM
You gave them 2 5th rounders. Is this assuming we get some compensation picks? Also, you said they are going back to a 4-3 defense, is this you assuming again? :shades:

Overall the picks look pretty good to me, but I have to think with a new regime, they will want their own QB, unless the coach is Sumlin. :)

Dutch is pretty good at predicting comp picks and he predicted a 5th.

I hope the go back to a 4-3 with the current lack of LB's/NT's.

TexansSeminole
11-20-2013, 12:32 PM
What if the Texans spend a 1st in 2014 on Manziel and he doesn't pan out?

I would rather spend next season evaluating Case behind a fortified OL and if Case doesn't pan out trade up for one of the QB's in 2015. It will pobably cost two 1st's moving from 10-12 to 2-3, but I would rather take my chances on Keenum/Winston/Petty/Hogan than Bridgewater/Manziel/Mariota. That's my plan B. I get what your saying about needing a QB to answer Luck. But this yrs QB class is too risky for my taste.

I definitely understand this mindset, especially with the QB class we are facing. I really like Petty and obviously Winston. Petty's arm is unreal from the few games I have seen of his. The ball comes off his hand like a rocket. I think he has some issues with pressure right now, but he still has another year to develop.

NastyNate
11-20-2013, 01:36 PM
I think I'm the only person here that isn't a big believer in Christian Jones. Not a very sound tackler and bites on the run too much in PA. I feel like this is a pretty weak class at ILB and there is better value taking Borland in the third.

htownfan32
11-20-2013, 03:50 PM
Rd.1 Jake Matthews - zero complaints about this pick. Nail a need, give our QB the protection he needs.

Rd.2 Christian Jones - again no complaints. He can develop nicely in the middle or become a pass rusher on the edge. I think we would play him in the middle mostly though.

3.Ryan Carrethers - You made Wilfork comparisons and I agree. DT is a desperate need.

4. Deion Belue - Brice McCain needs to go. Belue is a tough CB. Solid pick.

5. Jon Halapio - need to watch

5. DeAndre Coleman - need to watch but DT depth = not a bad idea.

6. Tyler Gaffney - I dig this pick. Gaffney is a worker.

7. Nehemiah Hicks - Man I have seen this guy's pass catching talent go wasted here at A&M (like all the other TEs so far in Sumlin's system) but he is a blocker for sure. He'll be valuable at the goal line.


Solid draft. I like the picks, where they are, and the needs being addressed. Patches quite a few holes in the ship.

leebigeztx
11-20-2013, 04:53 PM
Maybe, but the new regime may like Keenums tape. They may hold off until the 2015 draft that has Hogan/Winston/Petty, all better than the 2014 QB crop. IMHO

Why would they like keenums tape enough to pass a qb? There is no way a new coach and gm is gonna pass their qb for an undrafted free agent. I think even if rick stays and he hires a guy, he's gonna want his guy period.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 05:22 PM
Why would they like keenums tape enough to pass a qb? There is no way a new coach and gm is gonna pass their qb for an undrafted free agent. I think even if rick stays and he hires a guy, he's gonna want his guy period.

What if the new guy doesn't like this yrs QB class and thinks Keenum has as much potential as any QB in this class? But the new guy thinks the 2015 class has much more potential. Would the new guy take a QB anyway?

If Jay Gruden for example took over, his brother liked Keenum alot do you think Jay would talk to Jon and give Keenum an extended look?

Mari-OWNED!
11-20-2013, 05:27 PM
What if the new guy doesn't like this yrs QB class and thinks Keenum has as much potential as any QB in this class? But the new guy thinks the 2015 class has much more potential. Would the new guy take a QB anyway?

If Jay Gruden for example took over, his brother liked Keenum alot do you think Jay would talk to Jon and give Keenum an extended look?

It's certainly possible, but given how the NFL has been I'd bet against it. Just look at every new head coach within the past five or so years. They almost always draft a quarterback in the first round of their first year there. Coaches like to hand pick "their guy."

WolverineFan
11-20-2013, 05:36 PM
What if the new guy doesn't like this yrs QB class and thinks Keenum has as much potential as any QB in this class? But the new guy thinks the 2015 class has much more potential. Would the new guy take a QB anyway?

If Jay Gruden for example took over, his brother liked Keenum alot do you think Jay would talk to Jon and give Keenum an extended look?

That's because, seemingly without fail, you and your guy are tied together and succeed or go down together. Look no further than Schaub/Kubiak.

A new Coach/GM gets a 3 year window to succeed and most choose to go down with their own guy than someone they inherited.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 05:43 PM
That's because, seemingly without fail, you and your guy are tied together and succeed or go down together. Look no further than Schaub/Kubiak.

A new Coach/GM gets a 3 year window to succeed and most choose to go down with their own guy than someone they inherited.

How many yrs did Gary get?

8 and counting?

leebigeztx
11-20-2013, 05:43 PM
What if the new guy doesn't like this yrs QB class and thinks Keenum has as much potential as any QB in this class? But the new guy thinks the 2015 class has much more potential. Would the new guy take a QB anyway?

If Jay Gruden for example took over, his brother liked Keenum alot do you think Jay would talk to Jon and give Keenum an extended look?


You remember last year when everyone said this yr is not a good qb class,let's. Wait till 2014? Now you and others are saying 2015 is the class of qbs to wait on. You can talk your way out of a qb,but if you evaluate properly, you see elite skilled qbs in this draft. You don't wanna waste your honeymoon like kubiak did. Case can compete for the spot and in the case of a guy potentially like hundley,he might need 6 games like mcnabb. Guys like mariotta,boyd,murray,and manziel are starting from day 1. I'm not passing those guys,especially hundley,marriotta,and maybe even boyd at the top of the 1st rd for case keenum who can't play well vs oakland at home.

WolverineFan
11-20-2013, 05:47 PM
How many yrs did Gary get?

8 and counting?

My bad. I was talking about organizations that actually attempt to hold people accountable. The Texans are obviously not one of those.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 06:05 PM
My bad. I was talking about organizations that actually attempt to hold people accountable. The Texans are obviously not one of those.

Sad but true

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 06:34 PM
You remember last year when everyone said this yr is not a good qb class,let's. Wait till 2014? Now you and others are saying 2015 is the class of qbs to wait on. You can talk your way out of a qb,but if you evaluate properly, you see elite skilled qbs in this draft. You don't wanna waste your honeymoon like kubiak did. Case can compete for the spot and in the case of a guy potentially like hundley,he might need 6 games like mcnabb. Guys like mariotta,boyd,murray,and manziel are starting from day 1. I'm not passing those guys,especially hundley,marriotta,and maybe even boyd at the top of the 1st rd for case keenum who can't play well vs oakland at home.

Nope, I'm the guy who would already have my QB of the future. (Tyler Bray) He has all of the ability in the world but Dooley tried to ruin his career. Luckily for Bray Andy Reid gave him a chance as a UDFA and he not only made the team, he outplayed Danel this preseason and put himself in a position to play if Smith gets hurt and Daniel plays badly at all. There was talk of Bray beating out Daniel for the QB2 position this preseason in KC. So I didn't even mention the 2014 QB class.

I agee with you about the honeymoon period but I didn't say what I think a new HC would do at QB. I said what I would do. All of the QB's you named have just as many warts as Case has and just as much of a % to be a bust. I mean do you think Mariotta/Boyd/Murray/Manziel are going to have issues with the speed of the game/picking up blitzes after 4 games as a starter.

Sure they will, Look I'm not a Case fanboy and see the areas that he needs to improve. But he has talent and since I'm not a fan of this yrs QB class all I'm saying is I would pass and draft a QB in 2015 if Case isn't the guy.

This offense is broken, from the conservative playcalling to trying to mask a terrible OL to QB play, to dropped passes and poorly run routes by the TE's/Wr"s it is what it is. The offense is scoing more points with Keenum playing QB than it was with Schaub. So Keenum cant be doing that bad, could a big part of the problem be Gary's lack of 3rd qtr adjustments.

If I was forced to pick a QB in this draft then I would drop Jones as my 2nd rd pick and take McCarron there. Switch to a 4-3 and pray Cushing doesn't get hurt again. BTW, I do agree with you the new HC will probably pick a QB in rd1-2.

NastyNate
11-20-2013, 09:16 PM
I think I'm the only person here that isn't a big believer in Christian Jones. Not a very sound tackler and bites on the run too much in PA. I feel like this is a pretty weak class at ILB and there is better value taking Borland in the third.

Someone refute me here with evidence of sound tackling from Jones. I still think he's a JAG at best.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 09:44 PM
Someone refute me here with evidence of sound tackling from Jones. I still think he's a JAG at best.

I watched Jones play in 3 games this yr. Miami/Fla, Maryland,Clemson.

Jones appeared to be a very versatile LB, that played inside, outside and was a very good coverage guy and althought he didn't rush the passer alot he appeared to have the instincts/speed that it takes to improve that part of his game.

Jones is a leader on the defense, he's not a big hitter but he seems to be in the right spot and usually brings down whoever has the ball.

The only reason Jones might be available in the 2nd rd is that he's a little undersized to play MLB. But I will take speed and instincts over size every day. (See, Derrick Brooks/Zack Thomas/Sam Mills etc...)

NastyNate
11-20-2013, 09:57 PM
I watched Jones play in 3 games this yr. Miami/Fla, Maryland,Clemson.

Jones appeared to be a very versatile LB, that played inside, outside and was a very good coverage guy and althought he didn't rush the passer alot he appeared to have the instincts/speed that it takes to improve that part of his game.

Jones is a leader on the defense, he's not a big hitter but he seems to be in the right spot and usually brings down whoever has the ball.

The only reason Jones might be available in the 2nd rd is that he's a little undersized to play MLB. But I will take speed and instincts over size every day. (See, Derrick Brooks/Zack Thomas/Sam Mills etc...)

He's great in coverage, but a below average tackler. He's an oversized finesse safety. Please don't compare him to Zach Thomas, Thomas absolutely brought the wood. No bend to finish plays, too upright. IMHO I don't see him being much at the NFL level.

This is coming from a guy who was absolutely in love with Vontaze Burfict in the sixth in 2012 as the best LB next to Keuchly by a long shot. I don't get the hype for this kid at the NFL level.

steelbtexan
11-20-2013, 10:29 PM
He's great in coverage, but a below average tackler. He's an oversized finesse safety. Please don't compare him to Zach Thomas, Thomas absolutely brought the wood. No bend to finish plays, too upright. IMHO I don't see him being much at the NFL level.

This is coming from a guy who was absolutely in love with Vontaze Burfict in the sixth in 2012 as the best LB next to Keuchly by a long shot. I don't get the hype for this kid at the NFL level.

Didn't mean to compare Jones to Thomas. Thomas was a hitter who played downhill. Jones is more of coverage LB who tackles well but doen't bring the wood.

You're obviously very good at evaluating LB talent. Who do you like in rds 2-5. Sleepers?

NastyNate
11-21-2013, 01:11 AM
Didn't mean to compare Jones to Thomas. Thomas was a hitter who played downhill. Jones is more of coverage LB who tackles well but doen't bring the wood.

You're obviously very good at evaluating LB talent. Who do you like in rds 2-5. Sleepers?

I don't really have a great feeling on any sleeper ILB's this draft at any round. Greg Blair from Cincy would be my first pick in the 4-5 range. After that I guess an UDFA to pickup on would be Caleb Lavey from Okie state.

Texian
11-21-2013, 08:34 AM
You remember last year when everyone said this yr is not a good qb class,let's. Wait till 2014? Now you and others are saying 2015 is the class of qbs to wait on. You can talk your way out of a qb,but if you evaluate properly, you see elite skilled qbs in this draft. You don't wanna waste your honeymoon like kubiak did. Case can compete for the spot and in the case of a guy potentially like hundley,he might need 6 games like mcnabb. Guys like mariotta,boyd,murray,and manziel are starting from day 1. I'm not passing those guys,especially hundley,marriotta,and maybe even boyd at the top of the 1st rd for case keenum who can't play well vs oakland at home.

Not making excuses are you? facing reality are you? excellent analysis and logical thinking. If you miss in 2015 you've ensured mediocrity until 2017. The best way to start getting better ASAP is start today instead of waiting for tomorrow.

steelbtexan
11-21-2013, 09:38 AM
Not making excuses are you? facing reality are you? excellent analysis and logical thinking. If you miss in 2015 you've ensured mediocrity until 2017. The best way to start getting better ASAP is start today instead of waiting for tomorrow.

If you believe that there is a truly elite QB in this draft, I dont.

Obviously you think Manziel can be that franchise guy. He may become Fran Tarkenton or he may become Doug Flutie. I think he ends up somewhere in between. (Tony Romo) Good, but not elite.

badboy
11-21-2013, 11:55 AM
Rd.1 Jake Matthews- OT Texas A&M, 6'5 308 5.25, Matthews is an impact 10 yr starter, great runblocker who has the feet to be a dominate pass blocker too. High football IQ, great bloodlines.

Rd.2 Christin Jones- ILB-OLB, Fla St. 6'2 232 4.64, Jones is a fast tough instinctive LB that can play anywhere in the LB corps. He's a playmaker, something the Texans are sorely lacking. I've got the feeling he can be a pass rusher in the Dumerville role or if the new DC decides to play a 4-3 defense (Something I recommend) he would be a great WLB.

3.Ryan Carrethers- DT Arkansas St. 6'3 328 5.26, Former Wrestler with great quickness. I college he is as dominant as Wilfork is in the NFL. The only reason he falls this far is becuse he plays at a small school. This guy will become dominant in a couple of yrs. This is the guy to help shore up the run defense and keep OL off of cushing.

4. Deion Belue- CB Alabama, 5'11 183 4.48, Top cover guy, good instincts, solid tackler, although he's small was a top S recruit coming out of HS. Major upgrade over McCain. I would trade up if I had to and pick Belue in the bottom of the 3rd.

5. Jon Halapio- OG Florida 6'3 320 5.28, Halapio is a big strong tough guy who the Gators run behind when they need to run the football. Has started 33 games, while he isn't overly athletic Halapio is a football player. He reminds me of a bigger Briesel

5. DeAndre Coleman- DT California, 6'5 315 5.12, Coleman is a big athletic guy who plays on a crappy defense, but I like the fact that he never gives up despite his team gets blown out regularly. He has a chance to be a much better pro than college player. More help in transforming to ais 4-3.

6. Tyler Gaffney- RB Stanford 6'0 226 Stanford, 6'0 226 4.56, Tough, durable, workhorse RB, is always strongest in the 4th qtr. Great feel for the run game, good pass blocker, can catch the ball out of the backfield. Pro ready, Former pro baseball player.

7. Nehemiah Hicks- TE Texas A&M 6'4 255 4.68, Big target, good hands, good blocker. He has been unde used in the pass game but has made his presence felt in the un game. He has potential to be the blocking TE that this team has been missing. He need to get even stronger/bigger but the potential is their.I am not sold on Christian Jones and prefer Smallwood but in my soon to be new post with a trade I go in a different LB direction than I have. Also, there is something that whispers no when I watch Belue. Not sure what it is as he has skills and size but I vote no. I am pretty sure Beerlover and I started mentioning Carrethers on board but I think he will be there where we draft in 4th around #111. I do agree if we are going with Keenum we should build the Oline.

steelbtexan
11-21-2013, 12:29 PM
I am not sold on Christian Jones and prefer Smallwood but in my soon to be new post with a trade I go in a different LB direction than I have. Also, there is something that whispers no when I watch Belue. Not sure what it is as he has skills and size but I vote no. I am pretty sure Beerlover and I started mentioning Carrethers on board but I think he will be there where we draft in 4th around #111. I do agree if we are going with Keenum we should build the Oline.

Jones has versatility, I like Van Noy more than Jones for the same reason. Thanks for letting me know about Carruthers. I like him alot, for this reason I would pick him in the 3rd. This way you make sure you get the guy you like. I've got a feeling after the combine Carrethers will be drafted in the 3rd rd. Tell me what you dont like about Belue. He appears to be a good cover guy who is a solid tackler. A massive upgrade over McCain and a great value in the 4th rd. In fact I would trade up into the late 3rd to get him.

Texian
11-21-2013, 01:25 PM
If you believe that there is a truly elite QB in this draft, I dont.

Obviously you think Manziel can be that franchise guy. He may become Fran Tarkenton or he may become Doug Flutie. I think he ends up somewhere in between. Tony Romo

That and I have watched so many sure future franchise QBs as Sophs & Jrs. crash and burn as Srs. AKA Lienart, Barkely, Sanchez, Thomas, Manuel, Smith, Locker, Clausen, Gabbert etc etc. As for Manziel he clearly stands head and shoulders above any other 2013 draft eligible QB. He's done things no other QBs before have done. Yes I put JF in the Vick, RGIII, Wilson, Kaepernick class and I expect him to be better than Vick, Wilson and Kaepernick and as good as RGIII.

badboy
11-21-2013, 01:54 PM
Jones has versatility, I like Van Noy more than Jones for the same reason. Thanks for letting me know about Carruthers. I like him alot, for this reason I would pick him in the 3rd. This way you make sure you get the guy you like. I've got a feeling after the combine Carrethers will be drafted in the 3rd rd. Tell me what you dont like about Belue. He appears to be a good cover guy who is a solid tackler. A massive upgrade over McCain and a great value in the 4th rd. In fact I would trade up into the late 3rd to get him.I watched him in the last game against Miss State very closely & he seemed to be out of position some and once WR blew past him. It is more a gut feeling that I cannot explain. He is upgrade but I am very concerned & think we can replace McCain later round. I'm suggesting you not going on what you read about Belue but watch and see if I am right.

Jones does have versatility but no more than Smallwood and I've tried to work him in as OLB & still draft ILB but just can't make it work. I don't hate the pick jus tlike another player lower.

NastyNate
11-21-2013, 08:27 PM
I watched him in the last game against Miss State very closely & he seemed to be out of position some and once WR blew past him. It is more a gut feeling that I cannot explain. He is upgrade but I am very concerned & think we can replace McCain later round. I'm suggesting you not going on what you read about Belue but watch and see if I am right.

Jones does have versatility but no more than Smallwood and I've tried to work him in as OLB & still draft ILB but just can't make it work. I don't hate the pick jus tlike another player lower.

Greg Blair from Cincy is the same player as Jones with more upside and can be had cheaper.

beerlover
11-21-2013, 10:42 PM
Greg Blair from Cincy is the same player as Jones with more upside and can be had cheaper.

yeah, just don't see value in taking ILB early this year even though we clearly need one. might be good FA addition instead. Borland is better than people might think, very consistent, heady, leader that you need who will kill it on special teams as well. might not be a bad idea to bring in one of Watt's former teammates :swatter:

steelbtexan
11-21-2013, 11:25 PM
I watched him in the last game against Miss State very closely & he seemed to be out of position some and once WR blew past him. It is more a gut feeling that I cannot explain. He is upgrade but I am very concerned & think we can replace McCain later round. I'm suggesting you not going on what you read about Belue but watch and see if I am right.

Jones does have versatility but no more than Smallwood and I've tried to work him in as OLB & still draft ILB but just can't make it work. I don't hate the pick jus tlike another player lower.

I've watched Belue in the Ol Miss/Tennesee/LSU games and he has been the best CB on the field.

I didn't see the Miss st game, butif you rate Belue this harshly off of getting burned once in 1 game, tell me how you rate Roby after the Abbrederis torching and Belue is in the late 3rd/4th rd range. What is your Roby ranking? I still have Roby ranked in the 18-25 range despite the bad game.

steelbtexan
11-21-2013, 11:28 PM
Greg Blair from Cincy is the same player as Jones with more upside and can be had cheaper.

I haven't seen Blair play so I trust your eval.

What rd do you see Blair going?

NastyNate
11-22-2013, 10:47 AM
I haven't seen Blair play so I trust your eval.

What rd do you see Blair going?

There's not much ilb talent out there this year, I see him going late fourth round.

badboy
11-22-2013, 11:27 AM
Greg Blair from Cincy is the same player as Jones with more upside and can be had cheaper.I like Blair but don't think you will find many to say he is same as Christian Jones. Blair is more like my 3rd round mock guy Skov with avg coverage skills but great stop the run in the box player. Sources I use have him rated in 5th and I'd say 4-5, maybe. No way he has more upside. I think our co poster Seminole would argue you and IIRC, he said Jones has played a lot of OLB reducing his tackles. Here is some info on Blair:

"08/11/2013 - TOP CINCINNATI PROSPECTS FOR THE 2014 NFL DRAFT: 1. LB Greg Blair (6-1, 252, 4.72)...A 2011 transfer from Lackawanna Community College, Blair burst onto the scene at Cincinnati with 138 tackles, 2.5 sacks and two interceptions from the middle linebacker spot as a first-year starter in 2012. While he exhibits strong instincts and a physical, down-hill approach against the run, he also displays impressive awareness and anticipation in space when dropping into coverage.

He's not incredibly fluid in reverse and lacks an elite first step when asked to break down and redirect, but he diagnoses early and will take good angles to compensate. He's also a bit "top-heavy" and might need to shed some weight to generate better explosiveness and suddenness, which would project more versatility and ultimately, higher value to pro scouts. Granted an additional year of eligibility for the 2013 season, Blair will have a shot to emerge as one of the '14 class' best linebacker prospects. - Derek Stephens, NFLDraftScout
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/archive/1984529

NastyNate
11-22-2013, 11:43 AM
I like Blair but don't think you will find many to say he is same as Christian Jones. Blair is more like my 3rd round mock guy Skov with avg coverage skills but great stop the run in the box player. Sources I use have him rated in 5th and I'd say 4-5, maybe. No way he has more upside. I think our co poster Seminole would argue you and IIRC, he said Jones has played a lot of OLB reducing his tackles. Here is some info on Blair:

"08/11/2013 - TOP CINCINNATI PROSPECTS FOR THE 2014 NFL DRAFT: 1. LB Greg Blair (6-1, 252, 4.72)...A 2011 transfer from Lackawanna Community College, Blair burst onto the scene at Cincinnati with 138 tackles, 2.5 sacks and two interceptions from the middle linebacker spot as a first-year starter in 2012. While he exhibits strong instincts and a physical, down-hill approach against the run, he also displays impressive awareness and anticipation in space when dropping into coverage.

He's not incredibly fluid in reverse and lacks an elite first step when asked to break down and redirect, but he diagnoses early and will take good angles to compensate. He's also a bit "top-heavy" and might need to shed some weight to generate better explosiveness and suddenness, which would project more versatility and ultimately, higher value to pro scouts. Granted an additional year of eligibility for the 2013 season, Blair will have a shot to emerge as one of the '14 class' best linebacker prospects. - Derek Stephens, NFLDraftScout
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/archive/1984529


Same was probably the wrong word to use. I probably should have used something like "equally effective". He's a heady player and a sure tackler with a lot of the same pass coverage attributes of Christian Jones. And yes he does have much more upside than Jones transferring from a no name program and only playing two years at Cincinnati.

badboy
11-22-2013, 11:48 AM
I've watched Belue in the Ol Miss/Tennesee/LSU games and he has been the best CB on the field.

I didn't see the Miss st game, butif you rate Belue this harshly off of getting burned once in 1 game, tell me how you rate Roby after the Abbrederis torching and Belue is in the late 3rd/4th rd range. What is your Roby ranking? I still have Roby ranked in the 18-25 range despite the bad game.Well first I don't think I am rating him harshly as I stated it was more gut than anything. I would take Belue (3rd round) over Roby (1st round).


Here are some items to consider about Roby:

"After sitting out the season opener due to a suspension, the Buckeyes junior showed some rust early in 2013 and struggled mightily against Wisconsin wide receiver Jared Abbrederis, but there is a lot to love about Roby's game. That includes his speed and fighting attitude, but he needs to stay alert for all four quarters to convince NFL teams he's worthy of a high first-round grade. " http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1759561/bradley-roby

"Roby has had a bit of an up-and-down season for the No. 3 Buckeyes and has been part of a few rough outings for a secondary that has allowed some prolific passing performances this year, including a 207-yard outing by Wisconsin receiver Jared Abbrederis. Roby also was suspended for the season opener after an offseason incident at an Indiana bar in July."
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10007947/bradley-roby-ohio-state-buckeyes-forgoing-final-year-eligibility

badboy
11-22-2013, 11:50 AM
Same was probably the wrong word to use. I probably should have used something like "equally effective". He's a heady player and a sure tackler with a lot of the same pass coverage attributes of Christian Jones. And yes he does have much more upside than Jones transferring from a no name program and only playing two years at Cincinnati.Enjoy the debate but we know Jones can play better in coverage than Blair plus he has played OLB so imo that puts his upside way above someone we know less about. Blair could do very well but he could flame out. Jones is a two position player and Blair a one.

TexansSeminole
11-22-2013, 11:59 AM
Same was probably the wrong word to use. I probably should have used something like "equally effective". He's a heady player and a sure tackler with a lot of the same pass coverage attributes of Christian Jones. And yes he does have much more upside than Jones transferring from a no name program and only playing two years at Cincinnati.

I wouldn't be able to comment on Blair, I am not familiar with him. I have a hard time watching Cincy and really their whole conference play. Usually, there is better football on, so I am behind on a lot of the guys in that conference.

In response to badboy about to Jones, it's just an agree to disagree situation. No real use for NastyNate and I to debate our opinions on Jones and his tackling ability. I like the guy a lot for his versatility, coverage ability and I do believe he is also a good tackler. People are going to have differing opinions on players and it's part of what makes this whole group process we do interesting. There's often atleast some validity to each person's opinion.

But yes Jones has moved to OLB/pass rusher this season. It happened early in the season and he is still acclimating to it. I've mentioned also that FSU had played their entire backup unit for the entire second half in the majority of games the season. Tackle numbers won't tell you the whole story about any player from that defensive unit.