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View Full Version : Lance Zerlein GOES OFF on the TEXANS!!!!!


Lord Bills
11-18-2013, 02:43 PM
http://www.sports790.com/player/?mid=23984838

Talks about Ben Tate wishy washy comment, Kubiak, decision to go back to schaub....

I agree with everything he said.

Bearkat Texan
11-18-2013, 02:55 PM
Yeah I heard him this morning. Felt like he was reading my mind.

amazing80
11-18-2013, 02:57 PM
great rant. nailed it.....msr, someone get bill for me

eriadoc
11-18-2013, 02:59 PM
Why only five exclamation marks?

jaayteetx
11-18-2013, 02:59 PM
I agree 100%.

Hervoyel
11-18-2013, 03:09 PM
Why only five exclamation marks?

It's not our fault. We're up against it where the cap is concerned. Maybe we can sign more exclamation marks next year if we can get some of the other punctuation to restructure.

amazing80
11-18-2013, 03:11 PM
It's not our fault. We're up against it where the cap is concerned. Maybe we can sign more exclamation marks next year if we can get some of the other punctuation to restructure.

lol nice

TheRealJoker
11-18-2013, 03:20 PM
Is there a transcript available?

Hervoyel
11-18-2013, 03:21 PM
http://www.sports790.com/player/?mid=23984838

Talks about Ben Tate wishy washy comment, Kubiak, decision to go back to schaub....

I agree with everything he said.

Great rant and thanks for posting that. msr.

Texian
11-18-2013, 03:21 PM
I don't always agree with Lance but when I do......this is what it's going to take from all four corners of Houston to get Bob McNair's attention. When Bob gets his belly full of all the animosity, disdain and the demand for change from a large majority of fans, then and only then will he feel compelled to do something or face the further wrath of the fans.

That said, I understand Kubiak's move to go to Schaub, it makes sense to me. Oakland was blitzing Keenum on every down. Keenum was completing only half his passes and was on a 3 and out roll. Converting 3rd downs was not in the vocabulary. When Schaub went in Oakland stopped blitzing. That says Kubiak was on to something and the Texans were 1 yard away from winning the game.

IDEXAN
11-18-2013, 03:22 PM
You mean "Lance 'my Daddys a coach, my Daddys a coach' Zerlein goes
off on the Texans.

Bearkat Texan
11-18-2013, 03:28 PM
You mean "Lance 'my Daddys a coach, my Daddys a coach' Zerlein goes
off on the Texans.

:kubepalm:

deucetx
11-18-2013, 03:28 PM
That said, I understand Kubiak's move to go to Schaub, it makes sense to me. Oakland was blitzing Keenum on every down. Keenum was completing only half his passes and was on a 3 and out roll. Converting 3rd downs was not in the vocabulary. When Schaub went in Oakland stopped blitzing. That says Kubiak was on to something and the Texans were 1 yard away from winning the game.

Have to disagree on this point though I can see where you're coming from. But Kubiak wasn't on to anything really. It was an act of desperation. Schaub has not been good against the blitz all season. We were a yard from winning but how many times have we been close to come up with nothing? How many times has Schaub drove us down the field getting yards but ended it with field goals instead? It was nothing new.

Schaub was blitzed but not initially as the Raiders had to adjust. He got blitzed on 12 throws. He completed a whopping 5 of them for 41.7 completion percentage and a rating of 61.5. And on those throws it was only an average of 5.9 yards per attempts. So no, he isn't good against the blitz and Raiders came to that conclusion so began blitzing him more.

So yeah Keenum completed half of his passes when blitzed. Schaub completed less than half.

Uncle Rico
11-18-2013, 03:31 PM
Ill be more interested to see what Palillo has to say, Zuerlein is a tool.

Brisco_County
11-18-2013, 03:32 PM
That said, I understand Kubiak's move to go to Schaub, it makes sense to me. Oakland was blitzing Keenum on every down. Keenum was completing only half his passes and was on a 3 and out roll. Converting 3rd downs was not in the vocabulary. When Schaub went in Oakland stopped blitzing. That says Kubiak was on to something and the Texans were 1 yard away from winning the game.

This is true. That particular circumstance isn't so black and white.

From the postgame interview:

“What was happening was, we had to make a lot of changes from a protection standpoint to handle some of the things they were doing,” Kubiak said after the game. “Trying to create some tempo and do that. And it made it very tough on Case, in my opinion, being a young player. I knew that Matt could get done some of the things that I wanted to get done, real fast, and to give us a chance to win the football game. So that’s why I did it.”

Double Barrel
11-18-2013, 03:38 PM
http://www.sports790.com/player/?mid=23984838

Talks about Ben Tate wishy washy comment, Kubiak, decision to go back to schaub....

I agree with everything he said.

Great rant and epitomizes everything that most fans are feeling right now. :roast:

That says Kubiak was on to something and the Texans were 1 yard away from winning the game.

Is there a special asterisk next to the L to indicate that they were thiiiiiis close to winning the game?

tvaughan
11-18-2013, 03:52 PM
That said, I understand Kubiak's move to go to Schaub, it makes sense to me. Oakland was blitzing Keenum on every down. Keenum was completing only half his passes and was on a 3 and out roll. .

The head coach has to take some responsibility for this. DEAL WITH THE BLITZ.

You're not going to be able to do the thing you really want to do until you deal with the blitz. Stubbornly insisting that you "want to do this" but those mean Raiders are blitzing and preventing you from your 5 step drops and your long routes is nuts.

Try some slants. Try some quick crossing patterns. Try some screen passes. Try some draws. Try some max protect. But don't just keep doing the same thing you've been doing and then blaming the QB in his 4th professional start.

This "Case can't read the blitz" stuff drives me nuts.

ALSO: The Raiders were dumb to stop blitzing. Schaub doesn't handle the blitz well either. Which suggest THE TEAM doesn't handle the blitz well. I said yesterday as soon as they dropped back in coverage, "they must not have watched much film on Schaub. Otherwise they'd keep doing what they were doing."

Double Barrel
11-18-2013, 03:55 PM
Try some slants. Try some quick crossing patterns. Try some screen passes. Try some draws. Try some max protect. But don't just keep doing the same thing you've been doing and then blaming the QB in his professional 4th start.

I have been asking this question for weeks. Does this offense even have a "max protect" package in it?

The WCO has traditionally been a blitz killer. So it is baffling why they are unable to burn a defense who is constantly sending so many defenders.

Texian
11-18-2013, 03:55 PM
Is there a special asterisk next to the L to indicate that they were thiiiiiis close to winning the game?

Yes there is, it says, "I feel your pain".

Texian
11-18-2013, 04:10 PM
I think it is suffice to say that Kubiak's understanding of the offense X and Os far exceeds the knowledge of anyone here on this message board. I have never had a problem with the X and Os of Gary's passing offense. Alex Gibbs fixed the X and Os of the running game. (now in deterioration since his departure) Kubiak's laminated sheet likely has many plays and assignments that Keenum may not be familiar with, Oline assignments Case may not know or understand. Plays Kubiak wanted to go to to get them out of the 3 and out rut but didn't want to put Case in a psoition to fail. I still trust Kubiak as an OC more than anyone here.

That said I don't have the same confidence in Kubiak's X and Os for the Defense, or Special Teams, the X and Os of Salary Cap Management, X and Os of talent evaluation and the X and Os of the NFL Draft Prep and Operation.

Hervoyel
11-18-2013, 04:11 PM
I have been asking this question for weeks. Does this offense even have a "max protect" package in it?

The WCO has traditionally been a blitz killer. So it is baffling why they are unable to burn a defense who is constantly sending so many defenders.

We're clearly running some version or variation of it that is completely understood by defenses all over the NFL. I think the same could be said for Wade's game too. These two old dogs are old news in todays game and their systems aren't fooling anyone.

Honoring Earl 34
11-18-2013, 04:12 PM
We're clearly running some version or variation of it that is completely understood by defenses all over the NFL. I think the same could be said for Wade's game too. These two old dogs are old news in todays game and their systems aren't fooling anyone.

Hmmm ....

Eagles defensive end Fletcher Cox, who pressured Griffin into a game-ending interception, told CSNPhilly.com that Washington’s tendencies on offense were predictable enough that he was able to say what they were doing on some plays before they snapped the ball.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/18/eagles-fletcher-cox-rg3-is-right-we-knew-what-was-coming/

disaacks3
11-18-2013, 04:18 PM
I think it is suffice to say that Kubiak's understanding of the offense X and Os far exceeds the knowledge of anyone here on this message board. I have never had a problem with the X and Os of Gary's passing offense. I think it's safe to say that every Defensive Coordinator this team has faced this season has had a better grasp of the weaknesses in Kubiak's system. :kitten:

CretorFrigg
11-18-2013, 04:20 PM
I said the same thing on this message board. Totally agree with Lance.

tvaughan
11-18-2013, 04:23 PM
I think it is suffice to say that Kubiak's understanding of the offense X and Os far exceeds the knowledge of anyone here on this message board.

I don't think anyone doubts this. So much so that it need not even be said nor is it relevant.

We are talking about decision-making here. Not knowledge of Xs and Os.

If you want fans to have no opinions and blow off talking about football because, "they know more than me" I am pretty confident you are in the wrong place.

Norg
11-18-2013, 04:27 PM
I didn't have no problem with kubes putting in schaub Case was stinking it up IMO

Hervoyel
11-18-2013, 04:29 PM
I didn't have no problem with kubes putting in schaub Case was stinking it up IMO

Yeah I understand but you're "Norg". :fostering:

Norg
11-18-2013, 04:33 PM
Yeah I understand but you're "Norg". :fostering:

case is like 0-4 jus saying im all about WINS

what if case goes 0-10 then obvs Him and matt both suck

281
11-18-2013, 04:33 PM
Couldn't agree more with LZ here. I don't care if you like him or not, he's 100% dead-on.

Lord Bills
11-18-2013, 04:35 PM
We're clearly running some version or variation of it that is completely understood by defenses all over the NFL. I think the same could be said for Wade's game too. These two old dogs are old news in todays game and their systems aren't fooling anyone.

Hmmm ....


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/18/eagles-fletcher-cox-rg3-is-right-we-knew-what-was-coming/

its ok guys, keenum was able to fake spike it. our offensive system is up to date according to some posters here.

what has shanahan really done ever since john elway retired? even his jake plummer led broncos were completely dominated in the playoffs.

Sound familiar?

Its been a long time since those elway bronco glory days. The NFL has evolved. Kubiak and shanhan refuse to because their "system" is a big selling point for their resume and future job status.

They will never admit that their philosophy/system is outdated and needs to adjust and evolve with the times. Same thing with wade and his D. His track record of fixing defenses then totally cratering off the cliff after the first couple years is well documented.

You need an up to date coach who is open minded to the new approaches to the game. Kubiak and wade philipps is from the old school generation where its their way or the highway. They look down on new methods because its a threat to how they do things in their time.

That's the sign of a hard headed arrogant head coach who doesnt like to evolve with the times. You can see it with our restrictive audible system and the lack of the no huddle.

The complete opposite would be bill belicheck, who even in all of his glory found a way to update and evolve with the times when he instituted parts of chip kelly's fast no huddle offense.

One coach has multiple superbowl rings and found a way to evolve and improve with the times, while one coach who has really not done anything of note as a head coach stays close minded, arrogant refusing to change with the times.

cuppacoffee
11-18-2013, 04:39 PM
It's not our fault. We're up against it where the cap is concerned. Maybe we can sign more exclamation marks next year if we can get some of the other punctuation to restructure.

I am more concerned with the question marks.

:coffee:

ChampionTexan
11-18-2013, 04:43 PM
Yeah I understand but you're "Norg". :fostering:

Now there's two statements that probably have never before, and probably never will again occupy the same sentence.

Double Barrel
11-18-2013, 04:43 PM
Yes there is, it says, "I feel your pain".

Yeah, I think as a fan base we collectively feel the pain. For many of us old Houston football fans, it has a weird familiarity about it, too.

Unfortunately, it often gets taken out on each other. Even when people are in agreement they take exception to minor details.

I think it is suffice to say that Kubiak's understanding of the offense X and Os far exceeds the knowledge of anyone here on this message board. I have never had a problem with the X and Os Gary's passing offense. Alex Gibbs fixed the X and Os of the running game. (now in deterioration since his departure) Kubiak's laminated sheet likely has many plays and assignments that Keenum may not be familiar with, O Oline assignments Case may not know or understand. Plays Kubiak wanted to go to to get them out of the 3 and out rut. I still trust Kubiak as an OC more than anyone here.

That said I don't have the same confidence in Kubiak's X and Os for the Defense, or Special Teams, the X and Os of Salary Cap Management, X and Os of talent evaluation and the X and Os the NFL Draft Prep and Operation.

I generally agree about Kubiak's offensive acumen. I have often pointed out Shanahan's admittance that Denver won back-to-back Super Bowls with Kubiak calling plays for both seasons.

However, that said, schemes need to evolve. They need to adapt to the talent available and adjust to different defenses every week. It often feels like Kubiak has that sort of old school Lombardi attitude that "this is what we do and if we execute well nobody can beat us".

I think Kubiak doomed himself with undying loyalty to his QB. I won't put it all on Matt, but dude never had a challenger for his job since he arrived here. And there is absolutely no doubt that the QB is crucial to a team's success from year to year more than any other position. The FO failure to put the best o-line out there to protect an immobile QB did him no favors. And expecting Schaub to consistently be clutch for wins is foolish. He's just not that kind of QB. He's done it from time to time, but he's far from a Captain Comeback guy.

We're clearly running some version or variation of it that is completely understood by defenses all over the NFL. I think the same could be said for Wade's game too. These two old dogs are old news in todays game and their systems aren't fooling anyone.

I often wonder this season if Schaub's two 4000 yard seasons ultimately became a blueprint for both sides. A blueprint for Kubiak to believe that we just need to keep doing it, and a blueprint for opposing defenses to study and figure it out.

Richard Sherman said it was easy to figure out based on film he watched, not just from this season but from past seasons, as well. He timed it perfect based on tendencies that he saw consistently repeated from year to year. He did not say it in a demeaning way, but rather a very analytical way.

Texian
11-18-2013, 04:45 PM
I think it's safe to say that every Defensive Coordinator this team has faced this season has had a better grasp of the weaknesses in Kubiak's system. :kitten:

some of that may have to do with the Texans are not the same team of 2011 and have taken a step back every since instead of a step forward.

Texian
11-18-2013, 04:48 PM
I don't think anyone doubts this. So much so that it need not even be said nor is it relevant.

We are talking about decision-making here. Not knowledge of Xs and Os.

If you want fans to have no opinions and blow off talking about football because, "they know more than me" I am pretty confident you are in the wrong place.

where is the incense?

Sigma
11-18-2013, 04:56 PM
that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard someone say

this guy doesn't know enough stupid people if that is the stupidest thing he has ever heard

Malloy
11-18-2013, 04:57 PM
lol what a rant :)

JCTexan
11-18-2013, 05:02 PM
case is like 0-4 jus saying im all about WINS

what if case goes 0-10 then obvs Him and matt both suck

It's not all about wins. Schaub is done here so there is no reason to continue to play him. Keenum is young and could be the future QB. I would like to see Keenum audition for the job for next year and benching him vs. Oakland took away from that.

Vance87
11-18-2013, 05:05 PM
case is like 0-4 jus saying im all about WINS

what if case goes 0-10 then obvs Him and matt both suck

Was any team in the playoffs last year afraid of our 12 wins?

JCTexan
11-18-2013, 05:06 PM
Was any team in the playoffs last year afraid of our 12 wins?

Outside of Cincinnati? Probably not.

welsh texan
11-18-2013, 05:18 PM
You know, I get a feeling that when a team is on a good run, it's weaknesses can be masked, if it runs into another good team on an off day, those weaknesses can be made clear to all and sundry.

We ran into New England high on self importance and got destroyed first time round. When we then got destroyed again second time round it essentially made the penny drop for opposing teams.

All of a sudden anyone is able to pick us apart. Wait till the second half and blitz us silly with your D, and move people around at the line to take advantage of our man coverage and isolate players in bad matchups, whilst waiting for the D to become gassed.

It's a simple formula that it took a good team to highlight on a bad day for ourselves, but it just completely debunked both sides of the ball for us.

Once the rest of the league has your number on tape, you are finished unless to adapt quickly. Neither side of the ball is willing or capable of adjusting quickly enough to throw them off the scent.

Talk all you want about not knowing the Xs and Os as well as the coaches, because the opposing coaches do know the Xs and Os every bit as well as them and it has been revealed how to overwhelm our scheme.

We lose the game in exactly the same way now week in and week out, it's a simple exploit that has proven to be our undoing, it just took 2 years before it got shown for all the world by the Pats.

Vance87
11-18-2013, 05:22 PM
Outside of Cincinnati? Probably not.

Not even Cincy. We finished the year so terrible and beat no one of credibility, that they were convinced they would blow us out. So they weren't even afraid.

SchaubApologist
11-18-2013, 05:25 PM
I didn't have no problem with kubes putting in schaub Case was stinking it up IMO

he had 2 3&outs to start the 3rd... and that's "stinking it up"????

it's not like he threw a pick 6 in 4 straight games or something.... :pinned:

SchaubApologist
11-18-2013, 05:27 PM
case is like 0-4 jus saying im all about WINS

what if case goes 0-10 then obvs Him and matt both suck

norg, just stop. please stop.

:mariopalm:

you are losing what little cred you have by the minute.

CretorFrigg
11-18-2013, 05:35 PM
norg, just stop. please stop.

:mariopalm:

you are losing what little cred you have by the minute.

You have to read into what Norg says. Notice he capitalized the H in "Him" when referring to Case Keenum. This suggests Norg secretly believes Keenum is the savior of this franchise.

He says Case is LIKE 0-4, meaning he isn't really 0-4. Just like it. That means there's a chance he could be 1-3, or 2-2. We don't know, but if we pay more attention to the nuances, we might decode the message.

Norg presents a scenario where Case could POSSIBLY go 0-10, but there's an unusual amount of space after that. Remember, it's a scenario and all a trick. The capital H in "Him" and the "obvs" that precedes it suggests this would never happen.

And Matt Schaub sucks.

case is like 0-4 jus saying im all about WINS

what if case goes 0-10 then obvs Him and matt both suck

EllisUnit
11-18-2013, 05:48 PM
wow was i sleep talking last night and someone recorded it .....:barman:

Norg
11-18-2013, 05:56 PM
im jus saying some of yall need to take them couger Shades off yall think Case is the best thing since Sliced Bread not from the games ive been watchin

Honoring Earl 34
11-18-2013, 06:03 PM
im jus saying some of yall need to take them couger Shades off yall think Case is the best thing since Sliced Bread not from the games ive been watchin

I don't think that's it at all , I think Case makes it more fun to watch . Schaub is an old movie we've seen a dozen times .

EllisUnit
11-18-2013, 06:23 PM
I don't think that's it at all , I think Case makes it more fun to watch . Schaub is an old movie we've seen a dozen times .

exactly.... and since we were losing anyways it might as well be fun to watch, plus its not like we were getting blown out with keenum at QB

Texian
11-18-2013, 06:24 PM
I think Case makes it more fun to watch .

If they LIKE Case then they're going to LOVE JOHNNY TEXAN.

SchaubApologist
11-18-2013, 06:32 PM
im jus saying some of yall need to take them couger Shades off yall think Case is the best thing since Sliced Bread not from the games ive been watchin

i am not sold on case at all. i firmly believe we need to draft a QB with our number 1 pick next season.

what i do know is Matt Schaub is not an NFL starting QB. He was once a product of a system, but now the league has changed and the system is broken, so Matt is back on the sidelines where he belongs.

what enrages me the most is the audacity of kubiak to bring schaub in that situation. clearly AJ felt the same way. to think that schaub "gives you a chance to win" is jaded at best, and desperate at worst.

i cannot wait for that NE game. it's going to be fun.

Pantherstang84
11-18-2013, 06:38 PM
If they LIKE Case then they're going to LOVE JOHNNY TEXAN.

If Manziel gets drafted by the Jags and becomes JOHNNY JAGUAR will you promise to become a Jags fan? Don't you have some Manziel and Sumlin jocks to go sniff somewhere?

Texian
11-18-2013, 06:52 PM
If Manziel gets drafted by the Jags and becomes JOHNNY JAGUAR will you promise to become a Jags fan? Don't you have some Manziel and Sumlin jocks to go sniff somewhere?

Negative Ghost Rider

Vance87
11-18-2013, 07:10 PM
Negative Ghost Rider

How's your boy RGIII doing?

Malloy
11-18-2013, 07:14 PM
Stop quoting Norg, it defeats the purpose of the ignore function :)

Showtime100
11-18-2013, 07:36 PM
Is there a transcript available?

I doubt there is. I'd like to see it if I can't hear it. Fingers crossed for us both. :)

Norg
11-18-2013, 07:39 PM
well u could als say if scahub plays and plays well it could raise his trade stock ............ so whatever

EVOLVIST
11-18-2013, 07:42 PM
im jus saying some of yall need to take them couger Shades off yall think Case is the best thing since Sliced Bread not from the games ive been watchin

See, now that CretorFrigg has broke the "Norg Code," notice how Norg immediately followed up with a run on sentence in order to mask that he's been caught. However, he couldn't help but use a minimalist version of his own code by capitalizing certain words that gives away his true intent. It is a prophecy really. We should pay more attention to his posts.

Note the capital S in "Shades." Having previously called Keenum a savior, Norg still wants us to know that the S stands for something, although our season is in (S)Hades, i.e. Hell.

But in this case, "Case" is still the savior, leading the Texans to...you guessed it, "Sliced Bread," which is an obvious code for SB = Super Bowl.

In short, we may be in Hell now, but Case will lead us to the Super Bowl.

Good job, Norg! :bravo:

Lord Bills
11-18-2013, 08:11 PM
case is like 0-4 jus saying im all about WINS

what if case goes 0-10 then obvs Him and matt both suck

we were 2-7, now we are 2-8. Winning now would basically add insult to injury in the form of costing us draft position.

If case goes 0-10, chances are he sucked as qb and we somewhat get a definitive answer to the question of whether to draft a qb in the 1st round in a potentially great QB class.

Putting schaub back in there to try to win games when you are 2-8 not only defeats the purpose of finding out what you have in case but also screws us big picture wise of getting a better draft pick.

im jus saying some of yall need to take them couger Shades off yall think Case is the best thing since Sliced Bread not from the games ive been watchin

not everybody who has anything positive to say about keenum went to UofH.

The guy has the decked stacked against him with a shoddy offensive line, a lame duck coaching staff, no running game, along with being basically a rookie in his first year as starter after starting the season as the #3 qb.

You can see the kid has talent and promise when you watch him play and he has put up some great numbers. He is far from being the best thing since sliced bread but he deserves some slack as a rookie qb thrust into a bad spot.

We are 2-8, let the kid grow and make mistakes. If he is just totally inept and cannot complete a pass, YOU GO BACK TO TJ YATES!!!!!!

Not schaub. At least that move can be rationalized and you get even more definitive proof of Yates ability or lack there of. Going back to schaub is a slap to your fanbase and a c*ck punch to your future.

There is no point in going back to schaub. NONE WHATSOEVER.

well u could als say if scahub plays and plays well it could raise his trade stock ............ so whatever

he's 32, saddled with a bad foot, a weak arm, and 7 years worth of film. Not only that, he just set the record for pick 6s this year along with losing his job to a undrafted undersized qb who started the season as your 3rd string QB.

You're not fooling anybody with scchaub's stock value.

Texian
11-18-2013, 08:12 PM
How's your boy RGIII doing?

#8 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&season=2013&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Vance87
11-18-2013, 08:17 PM
#8 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&season=2013&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Nice single stat ya picked out there, coulda gone with #26, #33, etc...

chicagotexan2
11-18-2013, 08:19 PM
im jus saying some of yall need to take them couger Shades off yall think Case is the best thing since Sliced Bread not from the games ive been watchin

I don't think case is a sure fire bonafide winner but what I do know what everyone should know based on his lousy play is that Schaub is definately not a good QB. Not anymore at least. Unless keenum gets hurt then There is no credible reason to Trot that lousy chicken schit weak nut out there.

chicagotexan2
11-18-2013, 08:22 PM
If Manziel gets drafted by the Jags and becomes JOHNNY JAGUAR will you promise to become a Jags fan? Don't you have some Manziel and Sumlin jocks to go sniff somewhere?

I'm trademarking 'Jaggy football'

Texian
11-18-2013, 08:46 PM
Nice single stat ya picked out there, coulda gone with #26, #33, etc...

I just gave you what the the NFL gave me. You asked, I obliged.

Texecutioner
11-18-2013, 09:20 PM
I just gave you what the the NFL gave me. You asked, I obliged.

You didn't give him anything other then some cherry picked stat you felt was good enough to just toss out there without an explanation attached. RG3 has seen a regression for the most part this season. He is going through growing pains and problems from missing pre season. He'll be fine in the long term and will be a great QB. But right now, he's been working through some rough patches

Trap_Star
11-19-2013, 12:20 AM
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein

Got some locker room info regarding Andre Johnson's anger and how it carried over into locker room. Will discuss on the show in the morning.

hmmm...LZ wouldn't tease something like that just to troll.

TejasTom
11-19-2013, 07:33 AM
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein

Got some locker room info regarding Andre Johnson's anger and how it carried over into locker room. Will discuss on the show in the morning.




hmmm...LZ wouldn't tease something like that just to troll.

He talked about this at the beginning of the 7 o'clock hour. Said something along the lines of Andre lit in to Schaub, other players and coaches in the locker room.

amazing80
11-19-2013, 08:10 AM
He talked about this at the beginning of the 7 o'clock hour. Said something along the lines of Andre lit in to Schaub, other players and coaches in the locker room.

:hurrah: bravo 80, bout time someone grew a sack and spoke out.

OzzO
11-19-2013, 09:45 AM
Did Lance go off on Owen today during his call in?

@PatDStat So good. @owendaniels said he wants "smart fans" at the game. #Texans

Mr. White
11-19-2013, 09:48 AM
Did Lance go off on Owen today during his call in?

No he didn't. He said he went off on Tate yesterday and asked him to comment on Tate's quote.

YeaLikeRightNow
11-19-2013, 09:50 AM
No he didn't. He said he went off on Tate yesterday and asked him to comment on Tate's quote.


Man...this is better than ANY soap opera!

Just waiting for the next event.....:kitten:

TejasTom
11-19-2013, 09:52 AM
Did Lance go off on Owen today during his call in?

The fans were smart enough to know Schaub is not the answer long ago. Kubiak still doesn't get that.

Mr. White
11-19-2013, 09:58 AM
Man...this is better than ANY soap opera!

Just waiting for the next event.....:kitten:

It really didn't seem like the tone was very combative between them. OD sounded annoyed by the end of the interview though.

Texian
11-19-2013, 09:58 AM
If Manziel gets drafted by the Jags and becomes JOHNNY JAGUAR will you promise to become a Jags fan? Don't you have some Manziel and Sumlin jocks to go sniff somewhere?

Just when you think it can't get any worse for the Texans the Jacksonville Jaguars select Johnny Football with #1 pick in the NFL Draft. The Texans not only have to face Andrew Luck twice a year, now they also have to face Johnny Football twice a year. Two Texans beating the Texans four times a year.

The Texans take Jake Matthews with their 1st pick and improve their OL considerably. Now they have an OL who can better protect the QB but they don't have a QB to protect.

On a personal note IMHO I do believe that when the draft rolls around I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny Manziel as the #1 QB on most NFL draft boards.

speedfreek
11-19-2013, 10:00 AM
My family is loaded with Ags. We watch every game. Johnny isn't
going to be a good pro..

TJ

Just when you think it can't get any worse for the Texans the Jacksonville Jaguars select Johnny Football with #1 pick in the NFL Draft. The Texans not only have to face Andrew Luck twice a year, now they also have to face Johnny Football twice a year. Two Texans beating the Texans four times a year.

The Texans take Jake Matthews with their 1st pick and improve their OL considerably. Now they have an OL who can better protect the QB but they don't have a QB to protect.

On a personal note IMHO I do believe that when the draft rolls around I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny Manziel as the #1 QB on most NFL draft boards.

jaayteetx
11-19-2013, 10:01 AM
My family is loaded with Ags. We watch every game. Johnny isn't
going to be a good pro..

TJ

Last game I saw him play he was under throwing receivers, not a good sign.

TejasTom
11-19-2013, 10:04 AM
Last game I saw him play he was under throwing receivers...

Kubiak will surely draft him if he's still here.

Texian
11-19-2013, 10:09 AM
My family is loaded with Ags. We watch every game. Johnny isn't
going to be a good pro..

TJ

No offense but how would an Ag know? :)

You're right, he isn't going to be a good pro, he's going to be a great pro. Did your family of Ags have similar opinions of Cam Newton? RGIII? Russell Wilson? Colin Kaepernick?

You don't have to be an Ag to watch every Texas A&M game. In the Great State of Texas you can watch almost all Texas A&M football games. And you don't have to be a fan, which I am not, but Johnny Football is must watch TV. I'm beginning to better understand the Cougar love me some Keenum mentality. Reminds me a bit of the VYbots.

Texian
11-19-2013, 10:31 AM
Last game I saw him play he was under throwing receivers, not a good sign.

....and he does it with .730 accuracy that leads all NCAA FBS college QBs (his last game was 77%)

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/755

texanhead08
11-19-2013, 11:18 AM
Manziel hasn't looked right since he hurt that shoulder a few weeks ago. I see him tugging his shoulder pads and constantly trying to keep his arm loose.

Honoring Earl 34
11-19-2013, 11:32 AM
Just when you think it can't get any worse for the Texans the Jacksonville Jaguars select Johnny Football with #1 pick in the NFL Draft. The Texans not only have to face Andrew Luck twice a year, now they also have to face Johnny Football twice a year. Two Texans beating the Texans four times a year.

The Texans take Jake Matthews with their 1st pick and improve their OL considerably. Now they have an OL who can better protect the QB but they don't have a QB to protect.

On a personal note IMHO I do believe that when the draft rolls around I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny Manziel as the #1 QB on most NFL draft boards.

Bud Adams bought the Jags with a note to draft JF ?:peek:

Texian
11-19-2013, 11:38 AM
Manziel hasn't looked right since he hurt that shoulder a few weeks ago. I see him tugging his shoulder pads and constantly trying to keep his arm loose.

In his last game which was after the shoulder setback Johnny Football was 30 for 39 (77%) and 5 TDs. He did however only rush for 82 yards.

texanhead08
11-19-2013, 12:22 PM
I didn't say he wasn't playing well I said it looks like his shoulder is bothering him. I am curious to see if there really is some damage there or not.

bigmck
11-19-2013, 12:34 PM
That said, I understand Kubiak's move to go to Schaub, it makes sense to me. Oakland was blitzing Keenum on every down. Keenum was completing only half his passes and was on a 3 and out roll. Converting 3rd downs was not in the vocabulary. When Schaub went in Oakland stopped blitzing. That says Kubiak was on to something and the Texans were 1 yard away from winning the game.

I don't agree. Oakland stopped blitzing because they knew they could lay back and wait for Schaub to throw a pick and not worry about the bomb. While the Texans did get down to the one and almost win the game, they did not win and that is all that matters.

jaayteetx
11-19-2013, 01:11 PM
Anybody remember the last time we played the Raiders? We got down close at the end of the game and schaub couldn't win it then either.

texanhead08
11-19-2013, 01:17 PM
Anybody remember the last time we played the Raiders? We got down close at the end of the game and schaub couldn't win it then either.


I was thinking the same thing on the last drive. I also said he was about due for a pick 6 but the Raiders dropped 3 picks while Schaub was in the game.

drs23
11-19-2013, 03:06 PM
Stop quoting Norg, it defeats the purpose of the ignore function :)

X2 Please

eriadoc
11-19-2013, 03:12 PM
Stop quoting Norg, it defeats the purpose of the ignore function :)

And continually deteriorates the English language.

Say Watt
11-19-2013, 03:20 PM
Last game I saw him play he was under throwing receivers, not a good sign.

Are you sure you even watched the game?

Uncle Rico
11-19-2013, 03:25 PM
Anyone who thinks Manziel will be the #1 QB selected is smoking crack rocks.

SAMURAITEXAN
11-19-2013, 04:37 PM
LZ nailed it and thanks.

TexansSeminole
11-19-2013, 08:43 PM
In his last game which was after the shoulder setback Johnny Football was 30 for 39 (77%) and 5 TDs. He did however only rush for 82 yards.

With 3 interceptions. Forgot, or should I say conveniently left that part out.

speedfreek
11-19-2013, 08:57 PM
Johnny's problem is he isn't becoming a better passer. He hasn't
worked on his arm strength, he relys too much on his legs, and
he's looking much more brittle this year than the last.

If you want entertainment, then grab him (but don't leave out
Evans, who has saved JFF's fanny quite a few times..)

Johnny is Case Keenum, but shorter, faster and with an attitude problem.

TJ

No offense but how would an Ag know? :)

You're right, he isn't going to be a good pro, he's going to be a great pro. Did your family of Ags have similar opinions of Cam Newton? RGIII? Russell Wilson? Colin Kaepernick?

You don't have to be an Ag to watch every Texas A&M game. In the Great State of Texas you can watch almost all Texas A&M football games. And you don't have to be a fan, which I am not, but Johnny Football is must watch TV. I'm beginning to better understand the Cougar love me some Keenum mentality. Reminds me a bit of the VYbots.

TexansSeminole
11-19-2013, 09:05 PM
Johnny's problem is he isn't becoming a better passer. He hasn't
worked on his arm strength, he relys too much on his legs, and
he's looking much more brittle this year than the last.

If you want entertainment, then grab him (but don't leave out
Evans, who has saved JFF's fanny quite a few times..)

Johnny is Case Keenum, but shorter, faster and with an attitude problem.

TJ

Kid is like 185 pounds soaking wet. I don't buy that he is 200+ pounds. His style of football will get him killed at the next level, but he can make some throws. I've seen him throw some dimes. Even still, don't see him working out in the NFL.

Texian
11-19-2013, 09:10 PM
With 3 interceptions. Forgot, or should I say conveniently left that part out.

No because I knew you would bring it up. What I loved about those 3 INTs is after every one of those INTs it didn't take Johnny Football very long at all to follow up with a TD. I doubt very seriously that any draft elgible college QB would've been able to followup the way Johnny Football does.

Hervoyel
11-19-2013, 09:13 PM
With 3 interceptions. Forgot, or should I say conveniently left that part out.

So what you're really trying to say is that 33 out of 39 passes were completions right?

Hervoyel
11-19-2013, 09:15 PM
No because I knew you would bring it up. What I loved about those 3 INTs is after every one of those INTs it didn't take Johnny Football very long at all to follow up with a TD. I doubt very seriously that any draft elgible college QB would've been able to followup the way Johnny Football does.



This is getting out of hand. Starting to remind me of "The Legend of Vince Young"

Killed him a baar when he was only three I tell ya!

TexansSeminole
11-19-2013, 09:20 PM
So what you're really trying to say is that 33 out of 39 passes were completions right?

Indeed.

Johnny Football threw those interception on purpose so that Johnny Football could test the will and determination of Johnny Football's team.

speedfreek
11-19-2013, 09:26 PM
If Johnny is there in the 3rd, take him. I wouldn't go earlier.

If I were the GM, I'd take the best O-line or LB available in
round 1. Then take the best QB available in round 2.

Case and the 2nd rounder can battle it out next year and
the loser of the battle would be a good enough backup.
(Yates and Schaub are both gone in my world).

I've watched Bridgewater this year a few times play better
teams and look like an average college QB -- wouldn't go there.

Any of the other guys would probably be worth a second
round pick, although I am not so sure this is as deep of a QB
draft as people are saying.

(and our needs are _MANY_)

TJ

Texian
11-19-2013, 09:28 PM
Indeed.

Johnny Football threw those interception on purpose so that Johnny Football could test the will and determination of Johnny Football's team.

I know you're upset that I like Johnny Football. If it makes you feel any better, I think Bob McNair should also interview Jimbo Fisher as a potential head coach. Jimbo reminds me of Jimmy Johnson.

thunderkyss
11-19-2013, 09:40 PM
I don't agree with LZ's rant. If that's what he thinks, that's what he thinks, but he doesn't need to be putting words into Andre Johnson's mouth. We have no idea what Andre's frustration level is, or who he's frustrated with. All we've got to go by is what he said.

I think it was a bad idea to go back to Matt Schaub, but as soon as it happened, I told my wife, "At least now we'll move the ball." Sorry, but I had no faith in Case Keenum getting us into scoring position. We had 41 total yards of offense in the second half of the Arizona game. Something like that against Indy, & I think 27 against Kansas City. On top of that, Case looked more timid than he had in the previous 3 games. He looked like a rookie taking 10+ yard sacks.

That said, never in a million years would I have put Matt Schaub in the game. Even if Case is injured (twisted ankle, or the wind knocked out of him, or something) Matt would have handed the ball off & we'd have punted. If Keenum is ready to go the next series, Keenum is getting back in the game.

Because if I'm Bob McNair, the only thing that's going to earn Gary Kubiak a reprieve is hope that there's a bright future for the Houston Texans & I've got to believe Gary is part of that. If he found Keenum, if he developed Keenum, if he was grooming him all along to be our starting QB, then I'm not going to lay this debacle at his feet. No one could have predicted Schaub would lose it the way he did, so fast, so completely.

But benching Case tells me finding him was as much a fluke as winning 12 games last season. Kubiak didn't "know" that Case could lead this franchise one day. Kubiak didn't "plan" to replace Schaub in 2014 if we had to. Maybe we had a better chance to win with Matt Schaub, but benching Case tells me Kubiak doesn't think we had a chance at all with Keenum & if that's the case, what do I need him for?

If Case is not the answer, I don't need someone hear to convince me to take a $10M cap hit for Matt Schaub. It's not going to happen. No way, no how. If Case is not the answer, I don't need (or want) Gary Kubiak picking the next QB for the Houston Texans. First he told me (Bob McNair) that he could win with David Carr.... admitted he was wrong. Then he told me he could win with Matt Schaub..... then admitted Schaub needed help from the defensive side of the ball... then tells me he needs more play-makers for Schaub... then Schaub comes unglued & no one can convince me (Bob McNair) Matt can win a Super Bowl.

TexansSeminole
11-19-2013, 09:48 PM
I know you're upset that I like Johnny Football. If it makes you feel any better, I think Bob McNair should also interview Jimbo Fisher as a potential head coach. Jimbo reminds me of Jimmy Johnson.

I would not recommend Jimbo Fisher for an NFL coach. He's exactly like Kubiak in that he only has an offensive coordinator by name. He's had some suspect play calling over the years, gets too cute at times. Gets away from the running game if his team isn't killing the opponent about 70% of the time. He's also like Kubiak in that he is a QB guru first and foremost. He's also a screamer ala Nick Saban, and I don't think that works very well in the NFL. He is excellent with staff hires though and is an excellent recruiter. I wouldn't sign off on that hiring, even as a Seminole.

Lord Bills
11-19-2013, 10:16 PM
I don't agree with LZ's rant. If that's what he thinks, that's what he thinks, but he doesn't need to be putting words into Andre Johnson's mouth. We have no idea what Andre's frustration level is, or who he's frustrated with. All we've got to go by is what he said.

I think it was a bad idea to go back to Matt Schaub, but as soon as it happened, I told my wife, "At least now we'll move the ball." Sorry, but I had no faith in Case Keenum getting us into scoring position. We had 41 total yards of offense in the second half of the Arizona game. Something like that against Indy, & I think 27 against Kansas City. On top of that, Case looked more timid than he had in the previous 3 games. He looked like a rookie taking 10+ yard sacks.

That said, never in a million years would I have put Matt Schaub in the game. Even if Case is injured (twisted ankle, or the wind knocked out of him, or something) Matt would have handed the ball off & we'd have punted. If Keenum is ready to go the next series, Keenum is getting back in the game.

Because if I'm Bob McNair, the only thing that's going to earn Gary Kubiak a reprieve is hope that there's a bright future for the Houston Texans & I've got to believe Gary is part of that. If he found Keenum, if he developed Keenum, if he was grooming him all along to be our starting QB, then I'm not going to lay this debacle at his feet. No one could have predicted Schaub would lose it the way he did, so fast, so completely.

But benching Case tells me finding him was as much a fluke as winning 12 games last season. Kubiak didn't "know" that Case could lead this franchise one day. Kubiak didn't "plan" to replace Schaub in 2014 if we had to. Maybe we had a better chance to win with Matt Schaub, but benching Case tells me Kubiak doesn't think we had a chance at all with Keenum & if that's the case, what do I need him for?

If Case is not the answer, I don't need someone hear to convince me to take a $10M cap hit for Matt Schaub. It's not going to happen. No way, no how. If Case is not the answer, I don't need (or want) Gary Kubiak picking the next QB for the Houston Texans. First he told me (Bob McNair) that he could win with David Carr.... admitted he was wrong. Then he told me he could win with Matt Schaub..... then admitted Schaub needed help from the defensive side of the ball... then tells me he needs more play-makers for Schaub... then Schaub comes unglued & no one can convince me (Bob McNair) Matt can win a Super Bowl.


answer this simple question honestly,

before case keenum ever took a snap for the texans, did we not have problems scoring in the 2nd half? Did we not have problems playing through all 4 quarters?

infantrycak
11-19-2013, 10:41 PM
answer this simple question honestly,

before case keenum ever took a snap for the texans, did we not have problems scoring in the 2nd half? Did we not have problems playing through all 4 quarters?

Depends which season you are talking about.

texanhead08
11-19-2013, 10:49 PM
answer this simple question honestly,

before case keenum ever took a snap for the texans, did we not have problems scoring in the 2nd half? Did we not have problems playing through all 4 quarters?


Yes we have 2 second half touchdowns during this losing streak. There was one against the Rams when the score was 38-6. I can't remember if that was before or after Schaub was hurt and there is the short field drive against Arizona. This offense has been a steaming pile of suck in the 2nd half for the past 2 months. Its not on Case its on Kubiak if you ask me.

MEGA SWATT
11-19-2013, 11:08 PM
Agree.

Norg
11-19-2013, 11:30 PM
if we are picking third taking johnny would be a HUGE gamble

if uhhh Jags and Minny take the two QB;sthen OBVS then best defense player or best Lineman will be on the board for us to take

thunderkyss
11-20-2013, 07:08 AM
answer this simple question honestly,

before case keenum ever took a snap for the texans, did we not have problems scoring in the 2nd half? Did we not have problems playing through all 4 quarters?

I would not have benched Case.

However, with Case... not only did we have a problem scoring in the second half, we had a problem moving the ball. Against Oakland our offense was moving backwards.

I would not have benched Case.

It's possible our defense could have forced another turnover, within scoring distance. Perhaps they could have scored for us. Maybe we get another Special teams TD.

I would not have benched Case.

Honoring Earl 34
11-20-2013, 07:42 AM
I would not have benched Case.

However, with Case... not only did we have a problem scoring in the second half, we had a problem moving the ball. Against Oakland our offense was moving backwards.

I would not have benched Case.

It's possible our defense could have forced another turnover, within scoring distance. Perhaps they could have scored for us. Maybe we get another Special teams TD.

I would not have benched Case.

My thought is the Texans either lose focus real easy or the other team knows what the Texans are going to do based on the first 15 scripted plays . There's a trend that the league has figured out . I guess the defense is the same way .

thunderkyss
11-20-2013, 08:11 AM
My thought is the Texans either lose focus real easy or the other team knows what the Texans are going to do based on the first 15 scripted plays . There's a trend that the league has figured out . I guess the defense is the same way .

In all honesty, I think they don't realize how bad they are. Inevitably at some point they get complacent, think they're bada5ses, then they get popped in the mouth, run over, & a fat running back runs 80 yards to paydirt.

HoustonFrog
11-20-2013, 08:18 AM
I would not have benched Case.

However, with Case... not only did we have a problem scoring in the second half, we had a problem moving the ball. Against Oakland our offense was moving backwards.

I would not have benched Case.

It's possible our defense could have forced another turnover, within scoring distance. Perhaps they could have scored for us. Maybe we get another Special teams TD.

I would not have benched Case.

It's funny that you put that on Case but none of that goes on half time adjustments or the coach you LOVE and want to keep trotting out despite him having the same issues for years and years now. Unreal. You are in some Bob McNair world of denial.

Honoring Earl 34
11-20-2013, 09:09 AM
In all honesty, I think they don't realize how bad they are. Inevitably at some point they get complacent, think they're bada5ses, then they get popped in the mouth, run over, & a fat running back runs 80 yards to paydirt.

Thiis is when they lost their mojo and it hasn't returned .

http://www.ridethepine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/varsity.jpg

thunderkyss
11-20-2013, 09:21 AM
It's funny that you put that on Case but non of that goes on half time adjustments or the coach you LOVE and want to keep trotting out despite him having the same issues for years and years now. Unreal. You are in some Bob McNair world of denial.

You're right. My fault. I should have known when Kubiak drew up that 15 yard sack.

ObsiWan
11-20-2013, 10:02 AM
http://www.sports790.com/player/?mid=23984838

Talks about Ben Tate wishy washy comment, Kubiak, decision to go back to schaub....

I agree with everything he said.

Man, he's whiney.

dalemurphy
11-20-2013, 10:05 AM
It's funny that you put that on Case but non of that goes on half time adjustments or the coach you LOVE and want to keep trotting out despite him having the same issues for years and years now. Unreal. You are in some Bob McNair world of denial.

Why defend case? Nobody is blaming him for anything in his control. He has done a great job, but he is in a difficult position due to inexperience and taking over an offense that is in shambles. Everyone agrees Kubiak is accountable for that. Clearly, in the current environment case is operating in, he is struggling in the second half... Nothing controversial about that statement.

HoustonFrog
11-20-2013, 10:38 AM
Why defend case? Nobody is blaming him for anything in his control. He has done a great job, but he is in a difficult position due to inexperience and taking over an offense that is in shambles. Everyone agrees Kubiak is accountable for that. Clearly, in the current environment case is operating in, he is struggling in the second half... Nothing controversial about that statement.

I'm not defending Case. I've never even said I am a fan of the kid. In fact I've barely posted on it at all. My point is that TK has this undying love for Kubiak despite being a coach that hasn't show much for most of his career here. He directs a pretty decent offense but has been too conservative and has been outcoached too many times. His best years, record wise, were after he had a real D-Coordinator that wasn't his friend forced upon him. The main point was TK is trying to say Schaub could get it done the second half vs Case and that the stats in second halves under Case prove this. Yet this team has under performed all year whether its Schaub(Mr. Pick 6 and FG producer extraordinaire) or Case and a big part of that is what adjustments the other teams D is making at half and how Gary counteracts that...which is to say he does nothing special. It's easy to see if you're not McNair or TK.

You're right. My fault. I should have known when Kubiak drew up that 15 yard sack.

He doesn't draw them up, he puts the players in the position for them to happen by bad adjustments. But you'd never see that with your true love little Gary.

ObsiWan
11-20-2013, 01:41 PM
Nice single stat ya picked out there, coulda gone with #26, #33, etc...

I just gave you what the the NFL gave me. You asked, I obliged.

You didn't give him anything other then some cherry picked stat you felt was good enough to just toss out there without an explanation attached. RG3 has seen a regression for the most part this season. He is going through growing pains and problems from missing pre season. He'll be fine in the long term and will be a great QB. But right now, he's been working through some rough patches

Now you fellas know that "Passing Yards" is the first stat both nfl.com and espn use to rack & stack QBs. If you wanna sort on anything else, you have to do that yourself.

Go back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
:backsout:

Wolf
11-20-2013, 03:44 PM
Gary needs to script the first 15 plays of the second half also :kitten:

thunderkyss
11-21-2013, 06:23 AM
He doesn't draw them up, he puts the players in the position for them to happen by bad adjustments. But you'd never see that with your true love little Gary.

& the flip side is what?

Let's assume Kubiak put Schaub in the game, because he wants to win. If that is true, then it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't make adjustments, that he was calling the game to make Case look bad.

Let's assume Kubiak was looking for any reason to get Schaub in the game. Why didn't he replace Keenum after the first snap of the Arizona game? Why didn't he replace Case when he threw the interception in Oakland, or the fumble, or one of the 10+ yard sacks? Why did he wait 'til we were down 2 scores in the second half?

If we're all being objective, why does Ben Tate or DeAndre Hopkins get credited with 7 points for the other team when they fumble the ball? Even when the defense had an opportunity to hold the other team to a field goal. But when Case fumbles a ball that is returned for a TD, it's not his fault, it's the RT, or the HC.

I said it was bad enough in our previous games that we did not move the ball in the second half of any game Keenum started. Against Oakland, at home the offense was going backwards.

Problem scoring in the second half, yes. That's a problem Kubiak led teams have had. Not moving the ball? Not so much. David Carr, Sage Rosenfels, Rex Grossman, Matt Lienart, Tj Yates, Dan Orlovsky... all moved the ball between the 20s with regularity when Kubiak is calling plays.

Texian
11-21-2013, 09:25 AM
I would not recommend Jimbo Fisher for an NFL coach. He's exactly like Kubiak in that he only has an offensive coordinator by name. He's had some suspect play calling over the years, gets too cute at times. Gets away from the running game if his team isn't killing the opponent about 70% of the time. He's also like Kubiak in that he is a QB guru first and foremost. He's also a screamer ala Nick Saban, and I don't think that works very well in the NFL. He is excellent with staff hires though and is an excellent recruiter. I wouldn't sign off on that hiring, even as a Seminole.

and yet in spite of all these short comings FSU is 10-0, amazing, and Fisher is 41-10. A screamer disciplinarian like Saban, aka like Belichick, Parcels, Johnson, Lombardi, Cowher. Sounds just like a coach Bob McNair needs to talk to.

HoustonFrog
11-21-2013, 10:31 AM
& the flip side is what?

Let's assume Kubiak put Schaub in the game, because he wants to win. If that is true, then it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't make adjustments, that he was calling the game to make Case look bad.

Let's assume Kubiak was looking for any reason to get Schaub in the game. Why didn't he replace Keenum after the first snap of the Arizona game? Why didn't he replace Case when he threw the interception in Oakland, or the fumble, or one of the 10+ yard sacks? Why did he wait 'til we were down 2 scores in the second half?

If we're all being objective, why does Ben Tate or DeAndre Hopkins get credited with 7 points for the other team when they fumble the ball? Even when the defense had an opportunity to hold the other team to a field goal. But when Case fumbles a ball that is returned for a TD, it's not his fault, it's the RT, or the HC.

I said it was bad enough in our previous games that we did not move the ball in the second half of any game Keenum started. Against Oakland, at home the offense was going backwards.

Problem scoring in the second half, yes. That's a problem Kubiak led teams have had. Not moving the ball? Not so much. David Carr, Sage Rosenfels, Rex Grossman, Matt Lienart, Tj Yates, Dan Orlovsky... all moved the ball between the 20s with regularity when Kubiak is calling plays.

I'm not even sure how to follow that way of thinking. You are nitpicking single moments and then trying to make it seem like Kubiak isn't an issue or Schaub isn't an issue. It's laughable. Your logic skips everything else that Case does....and again, I'm not a Case fan or someone who even called for him. But his roll out and throw to Graham..would Schaub be able to make that throw?..no! So that is 7 points that are as good as 7 points any other time. Keenum had basically tripled the amount of completions of over 20 yards in 2 games than Schaub had for the year. He had made only 3 starts total and he was doing just as much, if not more than Schaub. The team was already losing and Schaub was part of that. Kubiak has shown that he is overly loyal to players so why wouldn't it stand to reason that he would force Schaub in there again? FGs weren't winning games and Schaubs season was basically games full of interceptions and stalled drives. You are taking 3 second half drives and putting it on Case vs looking at a season of bad play that falls more on a diminished and beaten QB and a coach who basically fails to adjust and who has had that issue for 8 seasons or whatever. If you don't believe that look at both NE games last year. You are living in lala land.

I think we are just coming from two different places. I don't see Case as a savior and I see severe limitations with Schaub. I look more at second half adjustments that coaching isn't responding to vs blaming a guy making his first three starts.

TexansSeminole
11-21-2013, 11:32 AM
and yet in spite of all these short comings FSU is 10-0, amazing, and Fisher is 41-10. A screamer disciplinarian like Saban, aka like Belichick, Parcels, Johnson, Lombardi, Cowher. Sounds just like a coach Bob McNair needs to talk to.

You are entitled to your opinion, obviously. Just giving you mine, as I have watched every game that he has coached for the Seminoles and followed the team very closely.

thunderkyss
11-21-2013, 08:53 PM
I think we are just coming from two different places. I don't see Case as a savior and I see severe limitations with Schaub. I look more at second half adjustments that coaching isn't responding to vs blaming a guy making his first three starts.

When was the last time a Kubiak led offense failed to gain 50 yards in an entire half?

speedfreek
11-21-2013, 09:26 PM
When was the last time a Kubiak led offense failed to gain 50 yards in an entire half?

You engage in such unusual logic debates with people.
So your contention is that Case is the reason the team is failing
in the second half? Vs. a coaching staff not making adjustments?

Your argument is 50 yards in an entire half? Ok, I'll play.
How many points did Matt Schaub contribute to in the game?
How many points did Case Keenum contribute to in the game?

What were the margins of loss when Case was playing QB in the games
he started? What mere the margins of loss when Schaub was playing
QB in the games he started?

I'll give you the short story -- Schaub doesn't lead to TDs. I don't
give a rats ass about yards. The entire TEAM struggles in the second
half -- or was it Keenum that was trucked instead of Swearinger?

Schaub, from this point forward, will NEVER give the team the best
chance to win because the guy cannot get the ball into the endzone.
and he makes mistakes too many mistakes -- he is more of a liability
than a positive.

Case will take a bad sack when the pressure is too much for this
travesty of an o-line. Schaubs response is to give the ball to the
other team -- in many cases with a wide open lane to the endzone.

The fact that Kubiak yanked Keenum has been used as a direct
indication as to why Gary is no longer a viable option as head coach
for this organization.

I have YET to see anyone in sports media claim that inserting Schaub
was the right (or smart) thing to do.

The only logic one can put on this whole situation is that Gary was
trying to do Matt "a favor" by allowing him to "go out in style" with
a win instead of having his last NFL game be known for clutching
his injured ankle on the ground while the hometown fans booed him.

Case isn't Brady, but don't lump this steaming stink pickle of a season
on him man..

TJ

thunderkyss
11-21-2013, 11:01 PM
You engage in such unusual logic debates with people.
So your contention is that Case is the reason the team is failing
in the second half? Vs. a coaching staff not making adjustments?


If those are my only two choices then yes. There has never been another time in Kubiak's time here that we've failed to move the ball 50 yards in a half (not that I can think of, definitely not with the regularity we've seen since Keenum started).

Kubiak doesn't make "adjustments" is code for "I don't know what I'm talking about, but I like Case a lot more than I like Kubiak."

Whether it's Case Keenum on our broken team, or Matt McGloin starting for the broken Raiders, that UDFA has to find a way to move the ball.

speedfreek
11-22-2013, 08:21 AM
Matt McGloin was throwing against McCain, Keenum was throwing
against Woodson.

Their CB/LB were able to get TFL and sacks without any resistance,
our CB/LB didn't sniff McGloin, and if it were not for Watt their
QB wouldn't have had any dirt (or sweat for that matter) on his jersey.

You say I make excuses for Keenum -- I say you make excuses for
the team.

TJ

If those are my only two choices then yes. There has never been another time in Kubiak's time here that we've failed to move the ball 50 yards in a half (not that I can think of, definitely not with the regularity we've seen since Keenum started).

Kubiak doesn't make "adjustments" is code for "I don't know what I'm talking about, but I like Case a lot more than I like Kubiak."

Whether it's Case Keenum on our broken team, or Matt McGloin starting for the broken Raiders, that UDFA has to find a way to move the ball.

steelbtexan
11-22-2013, 08:32 AM
& the flip side is what?

Let's assume Kubiak put Schaub in the game, because he wants to win. If that is true, then it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't make adjustments, that he was calling the game to make Case look bad.

Let's assume Kubiak was looking for any reason to get Schaub in the game. Why didn't he replace Keenum after the first snap of the Arizona game? Why didn't he replace Case when he threw the interception in Oakland, or the fumble, or one of the 10+ yard sacks? Why did he wait 'til we were down 2 scores in the second half?

If we're all being objective, why does Ben Tate or DeAndre Hopkins get credited with 7 points for the other team when they fumble the ball? Even when the defense had an opportunity to hold the other team to a field goal. But when Case fumbles a ball that is returned for a TD, it's not his fault, it's the RT, or the HC.

I said it was bad enough in our previous games that we did not move the ball in the second half of any game Keenum started. Against Oakland, at home the offense was going backwards.

Problem scoring in the second half, yes. That's a problem Kubiak led teams have had. Not moving the ball? Not so much. David Carr, Sage Rosenfels, Rex Grossman, Matt Lienart, Tj Yates, Dan Orlovsky... all moved the ball between the 20s with regularity when Kubiak is calling plays.


Do you live in the world of assumptions and technicalities?

Lets assume Gary's not very good at his job and Rick is technicaly Gary's lap dog.