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Seegara
11-15-2013, 08:26 AM
Around the start of the season I was villified for criticizing the front office's decision to offer Brian Cushing a long term and high priced contract extension. What do you think now?

Vinnie
11-15-2013, 08:30 AM
I think that there is no way to predict the future and see season ending injuries occur before they ever happen.

2slik4u
11-15-2013, 08:37 AM
I think when healthy he is one of the best ILB's in the game. Problem is he has not played a full season for the past two years.

In his five year career he has only play two full seasons in which he posted great numbers and was an obvious elite play maker. When he is on the field he is an absolute monster. On the flip side when he is not on the field our defense is exposed in so many different ways.

With him blowing his knee out again I feel he will never be the same. I cant remember if its the same knee or other knee but Im just skeptical he will be the same player when he regains his health. I could be wrong and hopefully I am. Maybe CnD can weigh in on this.

I voted the second option. Cant keep giving money to a player when he cannot stay on the field.

Save your breath fellas, I know this wasn't a "tweaked hammy" or "strained groin". These were much more serious injuries that could happen to anyone but the result is the same. Cush gets injured. Cush sits. Defense sucks. We suck. We still pay money.

Hervoyel
11-15-2013, 09:07 AM
I don't think it could have been anticipated and I don't think giving him the money was a bad move. It just worked out that way. I'm big on trying to look at events like this and not get too upset about them. There's plenty this team does wrong already so there's no reason to judge them harshly because they can't see the future. Nobody can.

Bennie Joppru was not a bad pick. Nor was Charles Spencer. Those players just had a rash of insanely bad luck. Cushing is starting to look like he might suffer from that too but I hope he turns it around and gets back on the field looking like himself.

Yes I know it's unlikely that he will be the same player. They're doing amazing things with knee injuries these days though and you can't ask for a more dedicated rehabber than Cush. If it's possible he'll do it.

If it isn't we'll have to move on and so will he. The Texans can always draft some more players. Brian Cushing will never have another NFL career. This is the only one he has. I'm not betting against him making the most of it despite the injuries.

kingtexan
11-15-2013, 09:09 AM
Brian Cushing will never have another NFL career. This is the only one he has. I'm not betting against him making the most of it despite the injuries.

^^^This

Raf
11-15-2013, 09:22 AM
I was all for the move. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Even if he hadn't sustained the 2012 ACL injury, he would have just as likely have suffered the fibula and LCL season-ending one.

We've given big contracts to guys that didn't deserve it.....that didn't deserve even the opportunity to bust, yet they were given that shot.

Every move is a gamble. Personally, I was in favor of taking that gamble with Cushing and can't fault the FO for having extended him. Now other guys, which are plentiful to use as examples....I do fault the FO for either extending or being reluctant to do so...but Cushing is very much exempt from that, given the early result this season.

infantrycak
11-15-2013, 09:34 AM
In his five year career he has only play two full seasons in which he posted great numbers and was an obvious elite play maker.

One of the other seasons he played at an elite level and only missed games due to suspension.

With him blowing his knee out again I feel he will never be the same. I cant remember if its the same knee or other knee but Im just skeptical he will be the same player when he regains his health. I could be wrong and hopefully I am. Maybe CnD can weigh in on this.

Yes I know it's unlikely that he will be the same player. They're doing amazing things with knee injuries these days though and you can't ask for a more dedicated rehabber than Cush. If it's possible he'll do it.

CnD has weighed in. This is not an ACL. It is a much more minor injury and Cushing can reasonably be expected to be ready in time for off-season activities.

Hervoyel
11-15-2013, 09:38 AM
One of the other seasons he played at an elite level and only missed games due to suspension.





CnD has weighed in. This is not an ACL. It is a much more minor injury and Cushing can reasonably be expected to be ready in time for off-season activities.



I had not read that so that makes me feel a lot better about this. Looking forward to seeing Cushing tear it up next year, hopefully with some real help at his side on the inside.

amazing80
11-15-2013, 09:47 AM
i know it isnt the same injury nor as major, but the fact remains, he injured the same leg twice within a year. i doubt his range will be the same and think we need to consider another 3 down lb to bring in and reduce his pt to run downs

Playoffs
11-15-2013, 09:47 AM
Texans front office should have known Cushing would break his fibula. :hankpalm:

TexansBlood
11-15-2013, 09:53 AM
Release him and rebuild.


Thanks for everything Cushing. Nobody else showed blood, sweat and tears like you did!

False Start
11-15-2013, 09:56 AM
Cush is my favorite Texan behind AJ. I really hope he can come back strong and get back to the Cush we are used to. The defense is like the difference between night and day with him on the field.

Exascor
11-15-2013, 10:02 AM
Release him and rebuild.


Thanks for everything Cushing. Nobody else showed blood, sweat and tears like you did!

Cushing will not be released. There is 19.2 million in dead money after this season. He's pretty secure until 2016.

Trail.Blazr
11-15-2013, 10:12 AM
As much as I like Cushing's impact to the team with his locker room/field presence and his balls out attitude/toughness in terms of play, but I feel a long term contract was premature, based on his question marks with regards to PED's and his susceptibility to injury. I can't say a long term contract was totally wrong, but there was writing on the wall that his ROI could fall short of the contract. Still has to play out I suppose, but I certainly wouldn't grade the extension with an A.

Raf
11-15-2013, 10:23 AM
As much as I like Cushing's impact to the team with his locker room/field presence and his balls out attitude/toughness in terms of play, but I feel a long term contract was premature, based on his question marks with regards to PED's and his susceptibility to injury. I can't say a long term contract was totally wrong, but there was writing on the wall that his ROI could fall short of the contract. Still has to play out I suppose, but I certainly wouldn't grade the extension with an A.

Well that's easy to say in hindsight, not giving them an A on the extension.

Other guys have sustained big time injuries like Cushing and they had no history of alleged PEDs. I also don't see where his "susceptability" to injuries plays into it unless you're speaking of "re-injury" to his ACL. Prior to the ACL tear, he wasn't injury prone "because of" the alleged PEDs. Truth is, his ACL tear was off a freak play and malicious intent from an opposing player....not like he injured it off a mis-step, like that of Reggie Wayne where he might have appeared to be brittle and could thus pin it on the, again, alleged PED usage.

The most recent fractured fibula and LCL was a due to a huge self-inflicted blow by running right into Jamal Charles' pass block, going low with Cushing running at full speed! That again isn't due to being brittle as a result to PED use. Anyone at full health and strength with no history of injury could have resulted in the same injury.

HOU-TEX
11-15-2013, 10:45 AM
Cush will be fine. He's already said he'll be ready by February. I think we should be worried about the other 3 LB spots.

Bulls on Parade
11-15-2013, 10:45 AM
I saw Brian Cushing limping around with two crutches three days ago. On Tuesday afternoon to be exact. Two major season-ending injuries and surgeries. I'm hopeful he'll be the Cushing of old one day, as in 2015, but I wouldn't expect much from him in 2014.

I don't even know if he will be ready for training camp. At least not the dominant player we expect to see. We will probably draft at least one inside linebacker in the 2014 NFL Draft. Maybe two if we don't sign a decent free agent inside linebacker.

Either way, our 2013 season has been disappointing to watch. I'm not expecting a good atmosphere at Reliant Stadium these next two games, as the lowly Raiders and Jaguars beat us, but we will become the new frontrunners for the first overall pick by losing these next two games.

Trail.Blazr
11-15-2013, 10:52 AM
Well that's easy to say in hindsight, not giving them an A on the extension.

Other guys have sustained big time injuries like Cushing and they had no history of alleged PEDs. I also don't see where his "susceptability" to injuries plays into it unless you're speaking of "re-injury" to his ACL. Prior to the ACL tear, he wasn't injury prone "because of" the alleged PEDs. Truth is, his ACL tear was off a freak play and malicious intent from an opposing player....not like he injured it off a mis-step, like that of Reggie Wayne where he might have appeared to be brittle and could thus pin it on the, again, alleged PED usage.

The most recent fractured fibula and LCL was a due to a huge self-inflicted blow by running right into Jamal Charles' pass block, going low with Cushing running at full speed! That again isn't due to being brittle as a result to PED use. Anyone at full health and strength with no history of injury could have resulted in the same injury.

For his susceptibility to injuries, I'd point to 57 times he's listed on the injury report or IR in his career. Granted he played in most of them, not IR, but 57 times on an injury report would suggest consideration. While I find no arguement in anything you say, except I didn't suggest he was injury prone, nor injury prone "because of" alleged PED's, I am merely pointing out some caution flags that were out there which could have been considered. Maybe they were.. But, now, in hindsight, you are right, in its easy to not give an A. I don't think I personally would have gone ALL IN, but would have rather taken a more cautiously optimistic approach to extending him.

IMHO, when considering betting the house on a single player, you should be holding a good set of cards, but not a house of cards. Considering games lost to IR, Suspension and a number of games playing far less than the proverbial 100% status(whatever that is), it's fair to suggest there was justification for caution.

Raf
11-15-2013, 11:06 AM
For his susceptibility to injuries, I'd point to 57 times he's listed on the injury report or IR in his career. Granted he played in most of them, not IR, but 57 times on an injury report would suggest consideration. While I find no arguement in anything you say, except I didn't suggest he was injury prone, nor injury prone "because of" alleged PED's, I am merely pointing out some caution flags that were out there which could have been considered. Maybe they were.. But, now, in hindsight, you are right, in its easy to not give an A. I don't think I personally would have gone ALL IN, but would have rather taken a more cautiously optimistic approach to extending him.

IMHO, when considering betting the house on a single player, you should be holding a good set of cards, but not a house of cards. Considering games lost to IR, Suspension and a number of games playing far less than the proverbial 100% status(whatever that is), it's fair to suggest there was justification for caution.

good point. And just FTR, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth with the "injury-prone"-ness, if you will. Just added that to cover all corners for the sake of the discussion.

Scooter
11-15-2013, 11:45 AM
i've got a lot of confidence in cushing next year. i wont hold the injuries against him because they were unusually inflicted on him from a pair of ugly low blocks. if he were having more arian foster type problems i'd be worried - back, ankle, hamstring, and other non-contact issues. all i've heard is that this injury is actually fairly minor and wont affect his acl injury. he'll heal up and be ready to go, possibly even healthier by being another year from the acl surgery.

whether he gets injured again, noone knows. this is football, someone's always getting injured. he may play another 7 years without issue, or he might blow out a knee next season, you just never know. what i do know is he's the most important piece of the defense when he's on the field.

welsh texan
11-15-2013, 11:51 AM
What's his best position if we go 4-3? Can't really judge him based on his one half season replacing meco at MLB but with his knee maybe you get more out of him with only responsibility for one side of the field?

CloakNNNdagger
11-15-2013, 11:59 AM
I think when healthy he is one of the best ILB's in the game. Problem is he has not played a full season for the past two years.

In his five year career he has only play two full seasons in which he posted great numbers and was an obvious elite play maker. When he is on the field he is an absolute monster. On the flip side when he is not on the field our defense is exposed in so many different ways.

With him blowing his knee out again I feel he will never be the same. I cant remember if its the same knee or other knee but Im just skeptical he will be the same player when he regains his health. I could be wrong and hopefully I am. Maybe CnD can weigh in on this.

I voted the second option. Cant keep giving money to a player when he cannot stay on the field.

Save your breath fellas, I know this wasn't a "tweaked hammy" or "strained groin". These were much more serious injuries that could happen to anyone but the result is the same. Cush gets injured. Cush sits. Defense sucks. We suck. We still pay money.

This IS the same knee as his ACL. However, with an isolated LCL and fibula fracture, this would not be considered a "blow out of the knee." In fact, as I've written before, the prognosis is excellent to return to performance level he was able to attain post ACL prior to this recent injury. Following appropriate rehab, he should be good to go for OTAs and preseason........and back to full swing by next regular season. He will probably still show the lessened lateral movement as seemed to be what he lost secondary to the ACL injury........but I believe that anyone of us would accept that as part of the 80% performance return classically quoted in such an injury (ACL).

The Pencil Neck
11-15-2013, 12:42 PM
I don't have a crystal ball. I can't see into the future. So I don't know if his contract was a good thing or a bad thing and I won't know until his career is done.

With that said, I'm all for giving contracts to your core players. I didn't have a problem with Cush's contract, with Duane Brown's contract, with Owen Daniel's contract, with AJ's contract, with Foster's contract, or even with Schaub's contract.

I'm not going to have a problem with JJ getting a big contract, either.

Some of those contracts might turn out bad in hind-sight but that's life. You reward people who are high performers.

But I didn't select any options in the poll because there wasn't an "I don't know" option but I definitely don't think it was stupid or a bad thing.

The Pencil Neck
11-15-2013, 12:43 PM
Around the start of the season I was villified for criticizing the front office's decision to offer Brian Cushing a long term and high priced contract extension. What do you think now?

Soooo...

You started this poll expecting everyone to agree with you now?

:kubepalm:

Double Barrel
11-15-2013, 12:54 PM
McNair went to bat for Cushing, even to the point of taking his case to the league's HQ in New York during his rookie year scandal.

Cushing is not going anywhere, and I expect to see him back in full form in 2014.

Big Lou
11-15-2013, 03:18 PM
Around the start of the season I was villified for criticizing the front office's decision to offer Brian Cushing a long term and high priced contract extension. What do you think now?

I think the decision to resign Cushing versus an unlucky injury have nothing to do with one another. It's not like he is IR'd because he has weak knees that can't withstand a 200 lb object hitting directly at the knee cap at full speed.

Any player hit the way Cushing was would be injured. I hope that Rick Smith resigns talented players based on skill, and injury likelyhood, not on if a player will sustain an injury that any player in the NFL would.

Dutchrudder
11-15-2013, 04:51 PM
Someone remind me again why we would give a huge extension to a player under contract and coming off a serious injury?

We didn't see him play much at all before giving him that deal, which would be my main contention. You have to make sure the guy will be healthy and productive before giving them that money. We took all the risk on this deal and got no price reduction for it. It was a poor decision because his price wasn't gonna get any higher unless he was Defensive Player of the Year. Franchise him if necessary, otherwise make him prove it.

2slik4u
11-15-2013, 05:42 PM
This IS the same knee as his ACL. However, with an isolated LCL and fibula fracture, this would not be considered a "blow out of the knee." In fact, as I've written before, the prognosis is excellent to return to performance level he was able to attain post ACL prior to this recent injury. Following appropriate rehab, he should be good to go for OTAs and preseason........and back to full swing by next regular season. He will probably still show the lessened lateral movement as seemed to be what he lost secondary to the ACL injury........but I believe that anyone of us would accept that as part of the 80% performance return classically quoted in such an injury (ACL).

Does this injury lend itself to an easier re-injury rate?

Big Lou
11-15-2013, 06:31 PM
ACL's don't seem to be that big a deal anymore, they seem pretty routine.

CloakNNNdagger
11-15-2013, 07:26 PM
Does this injury lend itself to an easier re-injury rate?

http://snailwalkers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/lcl.gif

The lateral collateral ligament, the LCL, is most often injured during contact sports when a direct blow to the inside of the knee stretches or tears the LCL as it is overextended on the outside of the knee. Injury to this ligament is much less common than to the medial collateral ligament (MCL) located on the inside of the knee joint. This is because the lateral collateral ligament is on the outside of the knee and the opposite leg often protects the inner knee from a blow or any trauma. As a result, most LCL injuries occur when the leg is outstretched in front of the body and the inner knee is left unprotected by the other leg.

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/assets/256/images/16325256(200x200).jpg


It takes somewhat of a "perfect storm" type of situation for the injury to occur to begin with, and therefore the situation is unlikely to be recreated. A good LCL repair tends to return the structure to original strength, further making it less likely for re-injury.

steelbtexan
11-15-2013, 07:43 PM
Cush will be fine. He's already said he'll be ready by February. I think we should be worried about the other 3 LB spots.

Hope you're right

But facts are he's missed almost as many games as hr has played.

Coming off his ACL he didn't have as much range as he usually has. Hopefully he can make it nack and 2 yrs removed from the acl he will regain his old form. The new injury is a matter of rehab and with Cushing's work ethic it doesn't woory me as much.

Getting a big bad a** NT would probably keep Cushing/Sharrpton etc... healthy.

2slik4u
11-15-2013, 08:40 PM
http://snailwalkers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/lcl.gif

The lateral collateral ligament, the LCL, is most often injured during contact sports when a direct blow to the inside of the knee stretches or tears the LCL as it is overextended on the outside of the knee. Injury to this ligament is much less common than to the medial collateral ligament (MCL) located on the inside of the knee joint. This is because the lateral collateral ligament is on the outside of the knee and the opposite leg often protects the inner knee from a blow or any trauma. As a result, most LCL injuries occur when the leg is outstretched in front of the body and the inner knee is left unprotected by the other leg.

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/assets/256/images/16325256(200x200).jpg




It takes somewhat of a "perfect storm" type of situation for the injury to occur to begin with, and therefore the situation is unlikely to be recreated. A good LCL repair tends to return the structure to original strength, further making it less likely for re-injury.


Once again you make me a smarter man.

Will someone tag Doc with some rep for me. Can't do it myself.

Seegara
11-15-2013, 08:58 PM
Soooo...

You started this poll expecting everyone to agree with you now?

:kubepalm:
Not everybody. Just most, and it looks like they do.

Even if Cush comes back strong next season, I'm worried about him going down again.

The Pencil Neck
11-15-2013, 09:09 PM
Once again you make me a smarter man.

Will someone tag Doc with some rep for me. Can't do it myself.

Got him for you.

The Pencil Neck
11-15-2013, 09:13 PM
Not everybody. Just most, and it looks like they do.

"Most"? Since when is 11% considered "most"?

Even if Cush comes back strong next season, I'm worried about him going down again

Everybody will be worried about him going down again and we will be for the rest of his career. I worry about that for every player on our team but especially for those who've had major injuries.

Playoffs
11-15-2013, 09:30 PM
Will someone tag Doc with some rep for me. Can't do it myself.Got him for you.
Got him for you.Got you for him. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

infantrycak
11-15-2013, 09:31 PM
"Most"? Since when is 11% considered "most"?

More life 4%. I wouldn't count the two trolls or the OP agreeing with himself.

thunderkyss
11-16-2013, 01:30 AM
Around the start of the season I was villified for criticizing the front office's decision to offer Brian Cushing a long term and high priced contract extension. What do you think now?

If he had issues with the repaired ACL.... or even a "related" injury... I can see patting yourself on the back.

This dude had his knee blown out by a guy diving at his knees... I really don't see the "I told you so" aspect of this incident.

IDEXAN
11-16-2013, 08:01 AM
http://snailwalkers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/lcl.gif

The lateral collateral ligament, the LCL, is most often injured during contact sports when a direct blow to the inside of the knee stretches or tears the LCL as it is overextended on the outside of the knee. Injury to this ligament is much less common than to the medial collateral ligament (MCL) located on the inside of the knee joint. This is because the lateral collateral ligament is on the outside of the knee and the opposite leg often protects the inner knee from a blow or any trauma. As a result, most LCL injuries occur when the leg is outstretched in front of the body and the inner knee is left unprotected by the other leg.

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/assets/256/images/16325256(200x200).jpg


It takes somewhat of a "perfect storm" type of situation for the injury to occur to begin with, and therefore the situation is unlikely to be recreated. A good LCL repair tends to return the structure to original strength, further making it less likely for re-injury.

So C&D, what if anything does this most current knee injury to Cushing (the LCL) have to do with last years injury (the ACL) ? In other words, did Cushings injury history to the same knee leave him with a greater probability of the occurence of the current injury event, or are the 2 injuries just totally coinincidental ? And then of course do the 2 injuries to the same knee in successive years leave Cushing with a greater probability of another injury to that knee ?

CloakNNNdagger
11-16-2013, 09:34 AM
So C&D, what if anything does this most current knee injury to Cushing (the LCL) have to do with last years injury (the ACL) ? In other words, did Cushings injury history to the same knee leave him with a greater probability of the occurence of the current injury event, or are the 2 injuries just totally coinincidental ? And then of course do the 2 injuries to the same knee in successive years leave Cushing with a greater probability of another injury to that knee ?

The ACL injury and the LCL/fibula injury should be considered 2 unrelated injuries. Theses staggered injuries should not necessarily herald future knee injuries (especially this far out from his ACL repair).

drs23
11-16-2013, 12:18 PM
The ACL injury and the LCL/fibula injury should be considered 2 unrelated injuries. Theses staggered injuries should not necessarily herald future knee injuries (especially this far out from his ACL repair).

No Doom & Gloom this time. I likey! :D

IDEXAN
11-16-2013, 12:36 PM
The ACL injury and the LCL/fibula injury should be considered 2 unrelated injuries. Theses staggered injuries should not necessarily herald future knee injuries (especially this far out from his ACL repair).
OK thanks C&D, that's encouraging and though I certainly understand there's no guarantees here, perhaps Brian has had his share of bad luck in his football career, atleast for a few seasons.

Sigma
11-16-2013, 01:16 PM
Release him and rebuild.


Thanks for everything Cushing. Nobody else showed blood, sweat and tears like you did!

blood
http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2013/10/01/jj-watt-blog-narrow.jpg

sweat
http://www.juanelway.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/JJ-Watt-Struggles-With-3lb-Weights-500x312.jpg

tears
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28966446/cry.jpg

Seegara
11-16-2013, 08:02 PM
"Most"? Since when is 11% considered "most"?
Right now it's more than 2 to 1 who regret the extension. That's what I call most.
Everybody will be worried about him going down again and we will be for the rest of his career. I worry about that for every player on our team but especially for those who've had major injuries.
Agreed. And most especially for those with a history of many injuries.

Showtime100
11-16-2013, 10:37 PM
I'm put in for his bright future, but I had to think about it a while. Maybe just hoping against hope. I don't know.

Bulls on Parade
11-17-2013, 08:09 AM
Brian Cushing's contract has to be restructured this off-season. Rick Smith hurt our salary cap space but maybe if Cushing and Arian Foster restructure their deals, we release Matt Schaub after June 1. Possibly even release Owen Daniels and a few other vets making decent pay, then we could take our lumps in dead money for a couple years but by 2016 we'll be in great shape salary cap wise. Just in time for J.J. Watt to become the highest-paid defensive player in the entire league which he so well deserves.

Bulls on Parade
11-17-2013, 08:13 AM
I'm put in for his bright future, but I had to think about it a while. Maybe just hoping against hope. I don't know.
I have no doubts Brian Cushing can become a beast again but it will likely be in 2015 at the earliest. I certainly don't expect much out of him in 2014.

CloakNNNdagger
11-17-2013, 08:45 AM
I have no doubts Brian Cushing can become a beast again but it will likely be in 2015 at the earliest. I certainly don't expect much out of him in 2014.

An LCL/fibula fracture is not a 2 year process to reach optimal performance levels like an ACL rupture requires. If his performance drops next year, it is unlikely that you could attribute it to his recent injury.