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View Full Version : DeMeco Ryans is performing like a Pro Bowl player again


Vinny
11-14-2013, 10:20 AM
Contending teams don't often part with all-pros unless there's a reason. The Eagles learned that lesson the hard way in the past.

But in his second season with the Eagles, Ryans is validating the Eagles' end of the trade by pushing to make his first Pro Bowl since 2009.

"This is the level I was playing at," Ryans said. "It's fun being back at that level, being able to make plays."

Ryans, 29, is not especially boastful. His claim echoes what has been said elsewhere in the organization, from the locker room to the coaching staff to the front office. Ryans ranks fourth in the NFL with 89 tackles and is second in solo tackles with 71. He also has two sacks and two interceptions, and is a major reason that the Eagles have held opponents to an average 16.25 points in the last four games.

"DeMeco is the leader of our defense and he's having an outstanding Pro Bowl year and we couldn't be happier with everything DeMeco is doing for us," defensive coordinator Bill Davis said. "Between tackle to tackle, he is a force."

Outside linebacker Connor Barwin played with Ryans in Houston during Ryans' last Pro Bowl season and agreed that the veteran has returned to his pre-injury level.

"If not even better," Barwin said.

Ryans was a leader in the Texans locker room. After returning from the injury, he played second fiddle to Brian Cushing in the Texans' new 3-4 defense in 2011. He was not believed to be an ideal fit for their scheme - the Eagles even said Ryans was better for a 4-3 defense when they acquired him.

When the Texans traded him, "everybody was shocked, everybody questioned it, and nobody really understood it," Barwin said.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20131114_Ryans_is_performing_like_a_Pro_Bowl_playe r_again.html#XB5xm3QvUstpfEFg.99

eriadoc
11-14-2013, 10:38 AM
Better MLB than Cushing, IMO. He was under-appreciated when he was here.

Dutchrudder
11-14-2013, 10:47 AM
Buy high, sell low, that is the motto of the Texans GM.

PapaL
11-14-2013, 10:51 AM
That's great for DeMeco. He's a stand up dude. I'm glad for him.

Playoffs
11-14-2013, 11:43 AM
DeMeco may be the best leader I've ever seen on a defense and I was sad to see him go. But as far as the Texans were concerned he's better suited as a 4-3 MLB when healthy, and I'd say his PFF ratings bear that out. It's nice to see him healthy and contributing. Will be interesting to see if Philly pays him ~$7 million next year.

ILBs for defenses that can't get off the field (or whose offenses post lots of 3 & outs/turnovers) are at the top of the tackles rankings because they're taking more defensive snaps. DeMeco leads the NFL in ILB defensive snaps(note: Eagles bye week is 11/24). Eagles are second worst in yards allowed with 417 yards*/game, ahead of only Dallas after the Cowboys allowed 623 & 625 yards in 2 of last 3 games.


*2012 Saints hold record for most yards at 440/game

Rey
11-14-2013, 11:57 AM
DeMeco may be the best leader I've ever seen on a defense and I was sad to see him go. But as far as the Texans were concerned he's better suited as a 4-3 MLB when healthy, and I'd say his PFF ratings bear that out. It's nice to see him healthy and contributing. Will be interesting to see if Philly pays him ~$7 million next year.

ILBs for defenses that can't get off the field (or whose offenses post lots of 3 & outs/turnovers) are at the top of the tackles rankings because they're taking more defensive snaps. DeMeco leads the NFL in ILB defensive snaps(note: Eagles bye week is 11/24). Eagles are second worst in yards allowed with 417 yards*/game, ahead of only Dallas after the Cowboys allowed 623 & 625 yards in 2 of last 3 games.


*2012 Saints hold record for most yards at 440/game

Was about to post something similar.

Demeco would have been a nice player to have on a cheaper contract, but he's not worth that money. Unfortunately, Cushing has never played Andrew luck in the nfl so it kind of leaves a big hole at mlb for two years running. And who knows what injuries he'll suffer in the future.

Double Barrel
11-14-2013, 11:57 AM
I have always liked DeMeco and wish him the best in Philly. Even better that he's on a Cowboys rival, so no problem rooting for him team, as well!

IDEXAN
11-14-2013, 02:01 PM
Always an AFC fan with no team to follow in the "senior" conference, the Eagles
are now my go-to-NFC team with both DeMeco & Barwin starting for them and also with former Texans Casey and Maehl on their roster. And it's ironical that DeMeco is back to his former pro-bowl form in Phillys 3-4.

Double Barrel
11-14-2013, 02:33 PM
And it's ironical that DeMeco is back to his former pro-bowl form in Phillys 3-4.

This boggles my mind. I did not realize Philly was running a 3-4 until this article.

I remember all the 'experts' saying he would never be a good fit in a 3-4 defense.

Guess it all depends on how he's used.

HOU-TEX
11-14-2013, 03:05 PM
One of my favorite players to watch ever since his days at Bama. It was a dumb move then and even dumber now. ILB has been an issue ever since.

infantrycak
11-14-2013, 03:07 PM
Sure is a whole lot of hindsight to bash everything about the Texans going on around here.

Lets take a giant step back and even not make this DeMeco specific. As a general matter every time there is an injury there is a large group who say the player will never be the same, of course at least imagine it is true and are unwilling to wait long enough to be proven wrong. AJ has been a common target with folks going so far as to suggest he is no longer really a #1 WR and really is only getting his production by being wiley and schemes (from our crappy coach).

Some folks were correctly pointing out Ryans made great strides in getting back to his old form as the season progressed but there was a large and vocal faction that DeMeco had lost a step, no longer had the range for the job and was being paid way too much. If you were in the latter group then the Texans agreed with you and you should STFU about the decision.

/rant

Double Barrel
11-14-2013, 04:15 PM
I just read the trade thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90615&highlight=DeMeco+Ryans), and there were a lot of folks unhappy with the decision. Vinny made a ton of great points (among other posters).

Others rationalized it due to salary, even though they didn't like it.

A few were complete homers and thought the Texans could do no wrong.

Didn't he have a good performance in the two 2011 playoff games?

And let's be honest: 2-7 is a crappy team that deserves harsh criticism. This team is pretty much done for the year in November, which is never a good thing for team or fans.

Rey
11-14-2013, 04:24 PM
This boggles my mind. I did not realize Philly was running a 3-4 until this article.

I remember all the 'experts' saying he would never be a good fit in a 3-4 defense.

Guess it all depends on how he's used.

Demeco was very good for us towards the end in wades 34.

For me it wasn't about 34 fit. It was about how he and his contract fit with the team. His usage didn't justify that big contract IMO. But on a cheaper contract I'd have loved to have kept demeco.

JCTexan
11-14-2013, 04:30 PM
I just read the trade thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90615&highlight=DeMeco+Ryans), and there were a lot of folks unhappy with the decision. Vinny made a ton of great points (among other posters).


Yeah, I recall being a little pissed with DeMeco being traded. My post in that thread:

****, Ryans was the leader on this defense. I will surely miss watching him in a Texans uniform.

HOU-TEX
11-14-2013, 04:35 PM
A couple posts of mine from the thread DB mentioned. My thoughts haven't changed a lick. Bad trade

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I think anyone who might be thinking D-Ryans won't be an effective player anymore are just trying to make themselves feel better about this trade. There's no doubt in my mind he will be the leader and most effective player on the Eagles D.

Normally I begin to feel better about these kinda things a day or two later. Well, I don't and highly doubt I ever will. Bad trade

I've never been too critical of Smith and our FO up to this point. I'd usually shrug it off as thinking they knew better than I would about the cap/contracts/etc. But, I must say, this trade is horrible no matter how I look at it. It screams of screwing the pooch capwise.

I was ok with letting Winston go because I think Butler has the athleticism to be better. I was even coo with allowing Brisiel to walk once we re-signed Myers. I was fine with Mario leaving because I knew we couldn't afford him. I was going to be ok if Dreessen ended up signing elsewhere too. This, I just can't agree with at all. Just piss poor value in return for a player of D-Ryans caliber.

Sharpton played fairly well in place of D-Ryans, but the dude can't stay on the field long enough to properly evaluate his performance.

All that said, *sigh*, I'm still a Texans fan to the core.

Rey
11-14-2013, 04:39 PM
Sure is a whole lot of hindsight to bash everything about the Texans going on around here.

Lets take a giant step back and even not make this DeMeco specific. As a general matter every time there is an injury there is a large group who say the player will never be the same, of course at least imagine it is true and are unwilling to wait long enough to be proven wrong. AJ has been a common target with folks going so far as to suggest he is no longer really a #1 WR and really is only getting his production by being wiley and schemes (from our crappy coach).

Some folks were correctly pointing out Ryans made great strides in getting back to his old form as the season progressed but there was a large and vocal faction that DeMeco had lost a step, no longer had the range for the job and was being paid way too much. If you were in the latter group then the Texans agreed with you and you should STFU about the decision.

/rant

Maybe direct some if that ranting towards the actual organization that makes these decisions instead of other fans.

Seems like you're more ticked at the fans commenting on the moves the organization makes than the actual ****ty moves being made.

Double Barrel
11-14-2013, 05:00 PM
Demeco was very good for us towards the end in wades 34.

For me it wasn't about 34 fit. It was about how he and his contract fit with the team. His usage didn't justify that big contract IMO. But on a cheaper contract I'd have loved to have kept demeco.

I understand the contract point. However, I think it is imperative to figure out a way to make room to sign a clear locker room leader that still had a lot of football in him.

I have alway been under the impression that it was both contract and DeMeco not being good for a 3-4 (even though he looked good in Wade's D like you said).

infantrycak
11-14-2013, 05:11 PM
Maybe direct some if that ranting towards the actual organization that makes these decisions instead of other fans.

Seems like you're more ticked at the fans commenting on the moves the organization makes than the actual ****ty moves being made.

No for two reasons. One in this specific instance I disagreed with the team but I don't think it was a huge gaff - they had to make a judgment call and there were reasons for the way they went. Two, as a general matter I was commenting on some fans - nobody in particular which is why I did not quote anyone.

Since everyone is doing it, my position:

Do you see the freaking brace on his arm? If you do, you don't understand how limiting that is?

Do you advocate dumping a stellar player over a temporary issue?

Dude is solid when hobbled, a general of the D. When back in full form he and Cushing will be the best ILB duo in the NFL.

Cushing is an emotional leader. DeMeco is an intellectual leader. And both are sideline to sideline players when healthy.

Many folks were assuming DeMeco would not get better and CnD, no offense, wasn't supporting any confidence calling the chance of improvement a miraculous exception:

After reading all the comments, it seems that it would be helpful to refresh memories. I will only briefly summarize the pertinent points (specific to Demeco) of the analysis of NFL players that I reviewed previously for Stephanie's blog in the Chronicle.

*1/3 of the players were NEVER able to return to the NFL

*Defensively, linebackers experienced the greatest drop in power ratings (DEFENSIVE POWER RATING calculated as a total of TACKLES + INTERCEPTIONS), followed by cornerbacks, defensive tackles, and defensive ends. The average decrease was 95% (p=0.09), 87% (p=0.03), 64% (p=0.01), and 55% (p=0.03), respectively. In other words, LBs were the players (both offensive and defensive) that had the most drop off of all players to return.

*Their 1st season post injury tended to be their BEST performing season post injury.......but significantly down from the 3 years prior to injury. Each subsequent post injury season saw a DECREASE (not an increase)in performance from the prior season as measured up to 3 years post injury.

As I explained at the time that I presented the data, there were definite limitations to the study. But even if you felt justified in halving the post injury power rating losses due to these limitations, the numbers would still be quite discouraging.

According to the available data, absent Demeco's elbow injury, this season could have been Demeco's best chance to show his most productive post injury season. There is always that "miraculous" exceptional case that occurs out there, and that is true.......but realistically the odds are not with Demeco.

Yes he is overpaid.

I like demeco, but I think we could get similar production for a cheaper price.

If the info cloak posted holds true then he will be even more overpaid than he already is.

It sucks terribly, but it is what it is.

I appreciate your input. Thanks. Unfortunately I think the Texans will be like most posters here burying their heads in the sand and hoping that Demeco is the 1 in 100 player that makes a full recovery to pre-injury level. Yes Demeco is overpaid for his current level of production. I don't know how many years it will take to pay him the guaranteed portion of his contract but I'll bet the Texans will bring him back next year.

I dont dispute that Cak .... but thats a lot of cap space tied up in a guy who is only on the field in the base defense.

If he's not healthy and isnt contributing at a level comparable to his pay do you continue to pay him or do you cut your losses and sign a FA at a reasonable cost or even a draft pick which would be making considerably less ?

If he's healthy there is no question you keep him .... but thats not the case here.

Yes DB the Texans are sucking at 2-7. As I have said on other subjects and as was the intent on this one - that doesn't mean they f'd up everything they touched. If you were OK with the decision then, you should be OK with it now.

IDEXAN
11-14-2013, 05:51 PM
DeMeco was the odd man out when Wade Phillips arrived on the scene because Wades D scheme called for just one full-time ILB and as good as Demeco was in that full-time role Cushing was better. And since DeMeco had received a fat, new contract just the year before Wades arrival, it just wasn't feasible
cap wise to keep such an expensive part-time LB on the roster. Texans made the right decision back then, and it is still the right decision today.
EOS !

Double Barrel
11-14-2013, 06:26 PM
Yes DB the Texans are sucking at 2-7. As I have said on other subjects and as was the intent on this one - that doesn't mean they f'd up everything they touched. If you were OK with the decision then, you should be OK with it now.

I agree, man. But having been through these kind of sucktastic seasons, we know the level of bitching is going to reach Biblical proportions. Unfortunately, some of the more logical and constructive analysis gets lost in the white noise of massive complaining.

The ones I just don't get is the reflective calls to fire Kubiak in 2010, like the past two playoff seasons never happened, and like wanting him fired after 6-10 was some kind of badge of honor.

I would never trade the past two seasons, and honestly, I will always think positive of Kubiak for those two seasons regardless of how things pan out. It doesn't give him free pass this season, but I'm not going to act like 2011 & 2012 were not a blast and were not great for this franchise, city, and fanbase. Kubiak is behind our first winning season, first playoffs (and wins), and first division titles, so I will not lose my objectivity in that regard.

And I know you're not pointing fingers at anyone specific, but I'm trying to sort through the various perspectives to find the nuggets of gold. Although I dislike being in agreement with some folks, just as a matter of principle.

So yeah, now my [/rant] :D

Rey
11-14-2013, 07:09 PM
No for two reasons. One in this specific instance I disagreed with the team but I don't think it was a huge gaff - they had to make a judgment call and there were reasons for the way they went. Two, as a general matter I was commenting on some fans - nobody in particular which is why I did not quote anyone.

Since everyone is doing it, my position:



Many folks were assuming DeMeco would not get better and CnD, no offense, wasn't supporting any confidence calling the chance of improvement a miraculous exception:









Yes DB the Texans are sucking at 2-7. As I have said on other subjects and as was the intent on this one - that doesn't mean they f'd up everything they touched. If you were OK with the decision then, you should be OK with it now.

I'm just saying. That was a kinda strong rant just out of nowhere.

I honestly haven't seen people flip flopping on the issue, but obviously you have. But my main point was that the fans don't control anything. We just pay our money, come here and vent and run our mouths...

Yet you're ranting against other fans instead of the team making the gaffes. Ok, so someone may have liked the move, and is ripping the team now. Maybe someone is wrong about everything.

But other than being on the payroll I can't figure out why keeping other fans in check is rant worthy while sticking up for every questionable aspect if the team.

dtran04
11-14-2013, 09:43 PM
So Wade can't make Demeco or Ed Reed fit into his defense......

:)

eriadoc
11-14-2013, 10:04 PM
Sure is a whole lot of hindsight to bash everything about the Texans going on around here.

No hindsight needed. Hated the trade then, hate it now. Of all the players the Texans have let go, Ryans is the hardest hit to absorb, IMO. The guy was the kind of MLB that can anchor a defense for a decade and his instincts and ability to diagnose plays were better than any other Texan before or since, with the exception of Watt. As I've said many times, if you hit on players int he draft, you have to keep them. And I didn't care then and do not care now about the ridiculous salary cap arguments. They spend stupid money all the time. Ryans was smart money.

HJam72
11-14-2013, 10:15 PM
All the talk of Ryans not being a good fit for a 3-4, at least not as good as he is in a 4-3, convinced me back when; but, I'm not really surprised to be wrong in the end. Demeco is just a high effort, high quality player and it's a shame we didn't keep him. I guess it really was just that he wasn't 100% healthy yet at the time.

Smithiak thinking: Hey! Maybe we can get Ryans back for Watt! :wadepalm:

eriadoc
11-14-2013, 10:29 PM
I guess it really was just that he wasn't 100% healthy yet at the time.

I really don't even think it was that, because he was playing pretty well by the time they traded him. He was recovering nicely. I think it really boiled down to them wanting to stop giving him money so they could give money to someone else, who most likely wasn't as good. Or maybe they thought they could more easily replace him than the players they spent on, but obviously that didn't pan out. Cushing is very good when he's healthy, but he would be better next to Demeco instead of trying to play Demeco's spot.

Rey
11-15-2013, 05:18 PM
I still don't have a problem with this move. Demeco wasn't playing much and for the money he was making I don't think you could justify keeping him.

And I think the LB's next to Cushing would be ok if Cushing was actually playing. Of course if I had known Cushing would be hurt in back to back seasons I might have changed my mind.

But I didn't have a problem with the trade then and still don't now really. This was a bad defense with demeco on it, save for wades first year. He hadn't played up to his rookie level in any season after it IMO. But he looked real good next to Cushing under wade.

I think this defense misses Mario more than demeco.

Bulls on Parade
11-15-2013, 07:36 PM
The Texans went 2-14 in 2005 and were fortunate to draft guys like Mario Williams first overall and DeMeco Ryans first overall in round two in the 2006 NFL Draft. I was sad to see both players go but we may soon be in a similar position entering the 2014 NFL Draft. It's time to look ahead and focus on adding a couple of new franchise players. We need to refuel our talent level especially on defense. J.J. Watt can't do it all by himself. We need two, three, four, maybe five All Pros around him.

thunderkyss
11-16-2013, 04:16 AM
Maybe direct some if that ranting towards the actual organization that makes these decisions instead of other fans.

Seems like you're more ticked at the fans commenting on the moves the organization makes than the actual ****ty moves being made.

There's a guy here who claims the organization's penchant for pushing cap money out into the future is the reason for the state of this team right now. I've argued that is not the case, since we don't have any dead money against the 2013 cap for players no longer here. (s)He said it started mid December of the 2012 season & for the life of me I can't figure out how a mismanaging the future cap hurt the team mid-December.

But.... things like this, the Quin/Reed thing, the James Casey thing, Demeco.... those things hurt us. We didn't even make an offer to Quin (or Mario) & he signed a less expensive deal than Reed. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Reed deal when it happened, but I admit it was probably more of an emotionally irrational decision than a smart move.

Other things, like the money we paid Kevin Walter, Jacoby Jones, Wade Smith..... those guys underperformed those contracts & still had a position here. Wade damn near lost his position to a rookie 6th rounder from San Jose state.

That type of cap mismanagement hurt us.

Then every year it seems like we're hoping a handful of players come back from injury & play as well as they ever did. Demeco was one. He was returning to form, but instead of renegotiating his contract, he was straight up traded?? Newton is another. We're not paying him a lot of money, but the position he plays is too important not to have done something better than what we did. If they didn't think Ryan Harris could play better than a gimpy Newton, why is he here?

We should probably clean house of the medical staff & that really should have started years ago.

thunderkyss
11-16-2013, 04:28 AM
DeMeco was the odd man out when Wade Phillips arrived on the scene because Wades D scheme called for just one full-time ILB and as good as Demeco was in that full-time role Cushing was better. And since DeMeco had received a fat, new contract just the year before Wades arrival, it just wasn't feasible
cap wise to keep such an expensive part-time LB on the roster. Texans made the right decision back then, and it is still the right decision today.
EOS !

I'd have liked to have heard that the Texans offered to renegotiate Ryans' contract. Didn't have to be a pay-cut, just a restructure. If he said no, then it's on him.

Of course it wouldn't hurt so bad had we got a promising ILB at some time since. Waiting on Sharpton to turn into that guy adds insult to inury (pun intended).

Two years in a row we've lost Cushing for a big part of the season. Would have been nice to have a healthy Demeco to fill in.

thunderkyss
11-16-2013, 04:36 AM
I agree, man. But having been through these kind of sucktastic seasons, we know the level of bitching is going to reach Biblical proportions. Unfortunately, some of the more logical and constructive analysis gets lost in the white noise of massive complaining.


What's bad, is no matter what happens from here on out, it's for naught. We're going to have folks btch & moan because our draft status is going to get worse.

I'm looking forward to Sunday's game (though I'll probably have to work) because I want to watch these guys go out & play... and win. If we win the next 7, I'll be thrilled. No parade. No absolution for anyone. But I like it when we win. Makes me feel good.

thunderkyss
11-16-2013, 07:21 AM
I think this defense misses Mario more than demeco.

In the sense that Cushing is a better replacement for Demeco than Mercilus/Barwin is for Mario... yeah.

LikeMike
11-16-2013, 09:08 AM
Better MLB than Cushing, IMO. He was under-appreciated when he was here.

No he wasn`t. I actually think there wasn`t one poster on here that didn`t like him. When he was traded it was becuase of Cushings DPOY worthy play and salary cap reasons - not because of his play. Sure it regressed a little back then, but he was still an impact player.

I am glad he is doing well in Philly and wish him only the best. Probably my favorite ex Texans player out there.

jgl35
11-18-2013, 02:23 PM
The first thing I said when the Eagles got Ryans was this trade was made for locker room leadership that was badly needed since Dawkins left. You can see that taking effect this year. Ryans is adjusting the sets, Davis the DC calls him his coach on the field. You can see the young ones respect him. Even players like McCoy and Jackson talk with him on the field. This goes all the way down the line to the kicker and special teams guys and from what I hear to the one who don't dress for the game.

There are not many of these type guys in the league. You find a place for them and keep them no matter the cost.

As a life long Eagle fan I can not thank you enough of sending him here.

eriadoc
11-19-2013, 04:21 PM
As a life long Eagle fan I can not thank you enough of sending him here.

Boooooo!

silvrhand
11-21-2013, 09:29 AM
Yes DB the Texans are sucking at 2-7. As I have said on other subjects and as was the intent on this one - that doesn't mean they f'd up everything they touched. If you were OK with the decision then, you should be OK with it now.

Man you need to chill out of late, I'm not sure why but all your posts of late are just over the top and seem very angry. Maybe we need to give you a fistfull of dollar bills and send you to the clubs with Bill..