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View Full Version : Would we better fit a 4-3 defensive scheme?


Aaron
11-13-2013, 12:35 AM
With the possibility of uncle Bob cleaning house in the offseason, what if we were to bring in a defensive minded 4-3 coach like a Mike Zimmer? How would guys like JJ, brooks Reed and merciless fit in? We aren't getting much production from our OLB's as is...I rather like the looks of something like this:

DE JJ
DT Mitchell
DT ???
DE Reed
WLB Mercilus
MLB Cush
SLB Mays/Sharpton

Sorry if this has already been discussed!

eriadoc
11-13-2013, 12:49 AM
Well, since they have no linebackers, I'd be inclined to say yes, but then they have no defensive line either. So I don't think it really matters. They are playing a 1-10 defense. They have one player and ten scrubs.

Scooter
11-13-2013, 12:56 AM
unfortunately i think we would. we only have a few bright spots on the defense right now - defensive ends, starting corners, one linebacker, and a rookie safety. all would play as well or better in the 43.

VTexan
11-13-2013, 02:20 AM
Well, since they have no linebackers, I'd be inclined to say yes, but then they have no defensive line either. So I don't think it really matters. They are playing a 1-10 defense. They have one player and ten scrubs.

pretty harsh. but somewhat accurate.

very good - watt

good - cushing (when healthy) manning (when healthy) jackson (guess you could say now when healthy)

ok - smith, mercilus, swearinger

bad- mitchell, mays, sharpton, joseph, crick, harris, keo

holy **** bad- reed, mccain, reed, everyone else

aussie_texan
11-13-2013, 05:42 AM
pretty harsh. but somewhat accurate.

very good - watt

good - cushing (when healthy) manning (when healthy) jackson (guess you could say now when healthy)

ok - smith, mercilus, swearinger

bad- mitchell, mays, sharpton, joseph, crick, harris, keo

holy **** bad- reed, mccain, reed, everyone else

i think your being a bit harsh on smith and cushing bump those guys up

silvrhand
11-13-2013, 06:21 AM
i think your being a bit harsh on smith and cushing bump those guys up

I didn't think mays had been playing all that bad this year, now Sharpton is another story.

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2013, 08:02 AM
The two major components of a 3-4 are a dominant NT ( I know Wade can have a small NT but they stink inside the 20 ) and a stud OLB . We have neither so a 4-3 wouldn't hurt .

Rey
11-13-2013, 08:32 AM
I don't think we'd be all that good in any defense we played. Don't really think it matters. The players aren't there.

Aaron
11-13-2013, 09:24 AM
I find it hard to believe that our Personnel is as bad as we are making it out to be.

Watt- would be an absolute beast at end in a 43
Cush- even more opportunities to make plays
Joe mays- tackling machine, would transition nicely to OLB
Sharpton- see joe mays
Brooks Reed- seems like he has trouble playing in space maybe putting his hand back on the ground like in college would serve him well.
Earl Mitchell- can play in either scheme
McLain/Crick/Jamison- fighting for playing time on the Dline with rookies and FA's
The ninja- cap casualty

The secondary isn't effected much by the changes in the front 7. If we can get a healthy Daniel Manning back along with Swearenger continuing to ball out, our first group doesn't look half bad.

JJo- Manning- DJ- Kareem

Now after that it gets a little frightful!

Rey
11-13-2013, 09:33 AM
No, the talent and coaching are bad.

We already use a bunch of 43 concepts anyways. This isn't a typical 34. Biggest difference is alignment and having more athletes on the field. Also, the OLB's probably have it a little easier than 43 ends. More one on one match ups.

I don't care if we switch to a 43 (I prefer the 34), but whatever scheme we use we need more talent and better coaching.

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2013, 09:55 AM
No, the talent and coaching are bad.

We already use a bunch of 43 concepts anyways. This isn't a typical 34. Biggest difference is alignment and having more athletes on the field. Also, the OLB's probably have it a little easier than 43 ends. More one on one match ups.

I don't care if we switch to a 43 (I prefer the 34), but whatever scheme we use we need more talent and better coaching.


I think it's been said til we're all blue in the face but your special teams are a reflection of your teams talent . The Texans happen to have some really good players to cover it up some , but not anymore .

TejasTom
11-13-2013, 10:17 AM
I think it's been said til we're all blue in the face but your special teams are a reflection of your teams talent ...

I'm not so sure it's talent, players leave and make plays. Players come in make plays the first week or two, get "coach up", then their awful.

eriadoc
11-13-2013, 10:22 AM
I find it hard to believe that our Personnel is as bad as we are making it out to be.

You shouldn't. JJ Watt is one of the best 5 football players on the planet. That covers up a lot. As such, teams pay extra special attention to him, which opens up opportunities for other players. No one has taken advantage of those opportunities because they're simply not good. Antonio Smith is their best DL besides Watt, and he's maaayyybe slightly above average, but a starter either way. I'd peg him at average, but I can entertain arguments for above average. Crick is JAG (Just A Guy), at best. He doesn't belong in a starting lineup. Nor does Mitchell. Those guys are rotation players.

At LB, you have much of the same. You have Cushing, who is a playmaker, but injured more games than not the last couple years. Hard luck, but it is what it is. After him, you have a bunch of NOTHING. Guys that do not belong in a starting lineup. Sharpton hasn't been healthy as often as he's been inactive, and he's done nothing better than average when he's been out there. Mays is a decent rotation guy as a downhill LB, but again, doesn't belong in a starting lineup. Brooks Reed has done pretty close to nothing of note since his rookie year and it's safe to say he could be replaced by any average OLB and get the same production. Mercilus flashed a little and he's still young, but he doesn't produce near as much as he needs to, especially with Watt taking up the attention he does. With the matchup he had against the Cards, Mercilus should have at least put up a few pressures and maybe TFL, but he got nothing. Hell, I'm not even saying sacks.

The back end remains unchanged byt he front 7, of course, but you'll notice that when the Texans blitz, they don't get there and the back end gets burned. Well, there have been notable stretches where the Texans have rushed only 4 and the back end still got burned. So the back end is not helping the front 7 and vice versa. It's a team effort, in that regard.

We've been led to believe that this team is so talented, but in truth, they don't have talent where it counts the most - the trenches, and some of the guys we've been led to believe are talented because of draft spot, hype, or whatever just aren't anything special.

Hervoyel
11-13-2013, 10:30 AM
I prefer a 3-4 but we don't seem to have the personnel to do either one very well... except we have had success with the 3-4 in the past and with a lot of these same players so I would be hesitant to throw the baby out with the bath water here. Do we need to make some changes? Sure. No doubt about it. We shouldn't just abandon something we've had success with though because we're in need of personnel. We need new blood no matter what we do.

Rey
11-13-2013, 10:38 AM
I'm confused on Mercilus. He looked good in that first game and I haven't seen him rush the qb like that since.

That was the best I've ever seen him look. I just don't get it...apparently the ability is there, but something is missing. Was not a fan of his at all coming out of college, but the dude should be better.

texanhead08
11-13-2013, 01:07 PM
It doesn't matter because Rick Smith drafted 4-3 players even worse than he has 3-4 players.

WolverineFan
11-13-2013, 03:40 PM
With the possibility of uncle Bob cleaning house in the offseason, what if we were to bring in a defensive minded 4-3 coach like a Mike Zimmer? How would guys like JJ, brooks Reed and merciless fit in? We aren't getting much production from our OLB's as is...I rather like the looks of something like this:

DE JJ
DT Mitchell
DT ???
DE Reed
WLB Mercilus
MLB Cush
SLB Mays/Sharpton

Sorry if this has already been discussed!

Honestly if you made the switch then it would look more like this...

SDE - Watt / Jamison
NT - ?
DT - Mitchell / Crick
WDE - Smith / Mercilus

SLB - Reed / Braman
MLB - Cushing / Mays
WLB - Sharpton / Tuggle


Mercilus would be a hand-down DE. He may be a stand-up pass rusher, but he's no OLB. At least as far as a 4-3 is concerned. Reed is basically playing SAM already, but he also has DE responsibilities in Wade's scheme. I think he could play either DE or SLB. WILL would be a crapshoot. Tuggle is relatively new to playing LB and Sharpton sucks at everything a LB is required to do.

If we drafted a guy like Nix/Hageman to play NT in the 1st and a guy like Smallwood or Ryan Shazier to play WLB in the 2nd, this unit wouldn't look bad on paper.

BullNation4Life
11-13-2013, 04:26 PM
If the Texans can suck some more to get Clowney in the Draft and put him on the other side with Watt, Holy Crap...

Watt
Mitchell
???
Clowney

Or you could keep Ninja and have this lineup

Smith
Mitchell
Watt
Clowney

With Reed and Merc int he rotation at DE...

Seegara
11-13-2013, 09:09 PM
Would we better fit a 4-3 defensive scheme? Let's put it this way: Yes. You don't need a dominant nose tackle, but your linebackers have to be good in coverage.

Wade Phillips has proved that he still sucks as a HC. He's overrated as a DC as well.

Corrosion
11-13-2013, 09:45 PM
i think your being a bit harsh on smith and cushing bump those guys up

I'd have to bump them along with Keo who has played really well this season .... who woulda thunk it ?!

dtran04
11-13-2013, 10:00 PM
I prefer any scheme where the opposing QB is at least slightly confused at what coverage you are running. The Texans don't try to disquise ANYTHING. With their blitzes, the LBs come flying in way too soon and give it up. Even worse, they very rarely fake a blitz.

The Chiefs' D Coordinator was awesome at creating free blitzers where there is absolutely no chance the Texans could man them up. When was the last time the Texans were schemed a free blitzer? It usually required Cushing running over a waiting blocker.

aussie_texan
11-13-2013, 10:07 PM
I'd have to bump them along with Keo who has played really well this season .... who woulda thunk it ?!

yeah i agree his a good contributor on ST and isn't costing us games starting.
His turned it around a lot.
Hopefully this progression continues

texanhead08
11-13-2013, 11:23 PM
I prefer any scheme where the opposing QB is at least slightly confused at what coverage you are running. The Texans don't try to disquise ANYTHING. With their blitzes, the LBs come flying in way too soon and give it up. Even worse, they very rarely fake a blitz.

The Chiefs' D Coordinator was awesome at creating free blitzers where there is absolutely no chance the Texans could man them up. When was the last time the Texans were schemed a free blitzer? It usually required Cushing running over a waiting blocker.


The Cards did the same thing. I think the Texans offensive staff has no clue how to adjust to the blitz and we have seen this with Kubes and Dennison calling plays.

BetaV1
11-14-2013, 11:16 PM
The Texans have consistently been in the top half of the league defensively since switching to the 3-4.

The Texans were historically bad when they ran the 4-3.

I know the team's record is horrible right now, but you guys need to chill.

badboy
11-14-2013, 11:28 PM
I prefer a 3-4 but we don't seem to have the personnel to do either one very well... except we have had success with the 3-4 in the past and with a lot of these same players so I would be hesitant to throw the baby out with the bath water here. Do we need to make some changes? Sure. No doubt about it. We shouldn't just abandon something we've had success with though because we're in need of personnel. We need new blood no matter what we do.
Agree. A nose, ILB and a CB to replace McCain in the draft would be helpful. Hint..I also have a safety in my mock.

ArlingtonTexan
11-15-2013, 12:26 AM
In modern football, teams really don't spend much time in its base defense. the 3rd CB generally plays more snaps than the starting NT (unless the NT has unique pass rushing skills). And even if an offense is not in multiple wides and such, many teams, if not must play both 3-4 and 4-3. In short I don't think matters as much as it did 10 years 9heck maybe even 5 years) ago.

76Texan
11-15-2013, 06:05 AM
I'd have to bump them along with Keo who has played really well this season .... who woulda thunk it ?!

:swatter:

People used to laugh at me. :lol:

76Texan
11-15-2013, 06:22 AM
I prefer any scheme where the opposing QB is at least slightly confused at what coverage you are running. The Texans don't try to disquise ANYTHING. With their blitzes, the LBs come flying in way too soon and give it up. Even worse, they very rarely fake a blitz.

The Chiefs' D Coordinator was awesome at creating free blitzers where there is absolutely no chance the Texans could man them up. When was the last time the Texans were schemed a free blitzer? It usually required Cushing running over a waiting blocker.

The Texans did all that.

One thing that bothers me since last year is that Wade doesn't tie up his scheme between the units. You have to create opportunities for the backend to come up with Int. Wade wasted a lot of blitzes. Blitzing can turn sour very quickly if you leave the hot open - any receiver really.
You have to teach the guys not to get burned on blitzes; commit a PI if need to.
You don't give them uncontested points but also look to turn the ball over.

Wade's scheme is severely lacking in takeaways.

Naija Texan
11-15-2013, 10:47 PM
We mostly played 4-2 or 1 when in dime anyway... but I still think for Watt to be as effective as he has been, a 3-4 makes the most sense and gives him much more freedom to attack the offensive lines from multiple angles either going inside or out on the edges.

The defense ain't broke, hopefully if we bring someone new as DC he can keep the system close enough that Watt still is able to do the things he does.

steelbtexan
11-15-2013, 11:05 PM
Well, since they have no linebackers, I'd be inclined to say yes, but then they have no defensive line either. So I don't think it really matters. They are playing a 1-10 defense. They have one player and ten scrubs.

Sad to think that after 8 yrs and many/many draft picks the defense is in this situation. Sad

Naija Texan
11-15-2013, 11:16 PM
Sad to think that after 8 yrs and many/many draft picks the defense is in this situation. Sad

People kept making excuses for not drafting or going after defense positions of need like NT or ILB because we had Watt, Cushing and "WADE's SYSTEM!"

And actually over the last 4 years, the draft has been pretty split down the middle in terms of offense and defense. But honestly we've had WAY too many lower round busts or cuts that could have been at least roll players.

Scooter
11-15-2013, 11:26 PM
my issue with our current defense is that it doesnt matter what front we run or who we send, we're not trying to get to the quarterback. our edge plays contain, they're not pass rushing, and we only send run blitzes. we dont try to disguise anyone straight to the quarterback, we put a lot of hats on the line of scrimmage and try to collapse into the backfield.