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thetexanator
11-12-2013, 03:05 PM
was around 920 ish, i believe it was 610. The whiny voiced guy said that he dad sources that said peyton to houston was a done deal but that kubiak nixed it because he wanted to be loyal to schaub.

Anyone else ever hear this? Its the first time i ever heard about it. I always heard we werent interested because of the money it would cost.:kubepalm:


what could have been.

76Texan
11-12-2013, 03:10 PM
was around 920 ish, i believe it was 610. The whiny voiced guy said that he dad sources that said peyton to houston was a done deal but that kubiak nixed it because he wanted to be loyal to schaub.

Anyone else ever hear this? Its the first time i ever heard about it. I always heard we werent interested because of the money it would cost.:kubepalm:


what could have been.

Wouldn't have worked.
The Texans would have to cut a bunch more players or at least one very good players, probably two.

No money.

WolverineFan
11-12-2013, 03:11 PM
From what I remember, we would have had the cap to sign Peyton if we cut 2-3 guys. Not entrenched starters either, but role players.

Kubiak was not interested from the start because he thought Schaub was a better "fit". :kubepalm:

thetexanator
11-12-2013, 03:14 PM
Wouldn't have worked.
The Texans would have to cut a bunch more players or at least one very good players, probably two.

No money.

yeah i think thats what everyone thought. but how in the world were the broncos able to pull it off. they had just as much talent and presumably salary as we did but were able to do it. they got welker too. i think they could have made it happen if they wanted to.

Vance87
11-12-2013, 03:17 PM
Lance Z explained pretty well how we couldn't have done it. Broncos had much more money to offer than we did.

thetexanator
11-12-2013, 03:19 PM
Lance Z explained pretty well how we couldn't have done it. Broncos had much more money to offer than we did.well then someone on the radio is a gd liar. i trust lances opinion more than i do that other guy. guys an idiot but i thought he had some inside info lol.

mattieuk
11-12-2013, 03:35 PM
Cap reasons aside, there was absolutely no guarentee that Peyton could come back as a starter in the league, let alone a Pro-Bowler again.

Dutchrudder
11-12-2013, 03:37 PM
Peyton to Houston was completely doable if you sacrificed Schaub and did not extend Arian Foster. Foster counted 8m against the cap that year, and Schaub was somewhere around 11m with 1.3m signing bonus before he signed his extension. We could have offered about 16-17m in year 1 to Peyton if that was the plan.

Chris Myers was signed to a contract that counted 4.5m that year, so there was some more room if needed. It was feasible, but there is no way Kubiak would have let someone take away his offensive thunder. I have no doubt about that.

76Texan
11-12-2013, 03:37 PM
yeah i think thats what everyone thought. but how in the world were the broncos able to pull it off. they had just as much talent and presumably salary as we did but were able to do it. they got welker too. i think they could have made it happen if they wanted to.

Broncos benefited from the Cutler's trade.
They got a ton of young talents for cheap.
It will be their turn in 2015.
They will probably let Manning go after next year.

cstyle42
11-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Cap reasons aside, there was absolutely no guarentee that Peyton could come back as a starter in the league, let alone a Pro-Bowler again.

These simple risk are the one Texans won't take but they will take the stupid ones like on Ed Reed...

TheIronDuke
11-12-2013, 03:40 PM
These simple risk are the one Texans won't take but they will take the stupid ones like on Ed Reed...

Probably because Peyton is white and they're racist, right?

76Texan
11-12-2013, 03:42 PM
Peyton to Houston was completely doable if you sacrificed Schaub and did not extend Arian Foster. Foster counted 8m against the cap that year, and Schaub was somewhere around 11m with 1.3m signing bonus before he signed his extension. We could have offered about 16-17m in year 1 to Peyton if that was the plan.

Chris Myers was signed to a contract that counted 4.5m that year, so there was some more room if needed. It was feasible, but there is no way Kubiak would have let someone take away his offensive thunder. I have no doubt about that.

How the heck do you not extend Foster?

thetexanator
11-12-2013, 03:48 PM
How the heck do you not extend Foster?

didnt they jump the gun on foster? they had leverage on him, and they decided to play nice if i remember correctly.

Double Barrel
11-12-2013, 03:51 PM
Peyton to Houston was completely doable if you sacrificed Schaub and did not extend Arian Foster. Foster counted 8m against the cap that year, and Schaub was somewhere around 11m with 1.3m signing bonus before he signed his extension. We could have offered about 16-17m in year 1 to Peyton if that was the plan.

Chris Myers was signed to a contract that counted 4.5m that year, so there was some more room if needed. It was feasible, but there is no way Kubiak would have let someone take away his offensive thunder. I have no doubt about that.

This.

fwiw, John McClain contends to this day that Houston was Manning's first choice because he wanted to play with AJ.

Obvious hindsight being 20/20, but it was never truly an option because of the second thing Dutch mentioned. No way could Kubiak give so much control of his offense to Manning. I have no doubt about that, as well.

cstyle42
11-12-2013, 03:57 PM
Probably because Peyton is white and they're racist, right?

With the texans it's more because they make decisions in ways of the past they haven't caught up to the current ways and tricks of the trade. It's deeper than race they have different black guys and white guys in certain positions of rank and authority but as long as the owner and/or Kubiak in this case can have full control and authority over everything they do, say and decision they make. People just have titles. Hard to win that way nobody is being their true self they are just making the man on top happy by doing whatever it takes to keep their job. The guys that speak out against it or simply tell the truth get canned. You see what I'm saying?

Wolf
11-12-2013, 04:07 PM
Payton would have gotten released the minute he shook garys signs off and ran his own play:kitten:

76Texan
11-12-2013, 04:14 PM
didnt they jump the gun on foster? they had leverage on him, and they decided to play nice if i remember correctly.

Don't forget that Foster agreed on a third-year tender minimum in 2011 when he could have take his service elsewhere.

Somebody would have offer him more than that and force the Texans hands if Foster didn't agree to the tender.

Part of the money Foster is receiving with the new contract, IMO, is back pay that was due to him in 2011.

cstyle42
11-12-2013, 04:15 PM
Payton would have gotten released the minute he shook garys signs off and ran his own play:kitten:

Yep bye bye and Case Keenum may not even be qb next year depending on who coaches the team next year we are just at a weird state right now.

Dutchrudder
11-12-2013, 04:21 PM
didnt they jump the gun on foster? they had leverage on him, and they decided to play nice if i remember correctly.

Yep. He had another year as an RFA, we could have put a 1st round tender on him for something smallish. Could have franchised him and traded him off too, but that wouldn't have gone over well. Rick Smith said "he would take care of him" if he did well in 2011, so that's why we gave him 5 years 40m. Well, bad things happen when you give lots of money to RBs...

I think you could have sold Foster on the low pay for 1 more year if you told him it was the difference between having Schaub at QB vs Peyton. Any team player should understand the difference between the two. I also have to wonder if Peyton would have taken 15m a year to play here instead of Denver. At the time, Denver looked like a fluke with that win over the Steelers and Tebow at the helm. They had issues, and still do, but putting Peyton up there really vaulted them up the power rankings.

BigBull17
11-12-2013, 04:24 PM
How the heck do you not extend Foster?

I would damn near never extend a running back in this league. Tough position to play at a high level for a long period of time.

Porky
11-12-2013, 05:12 PM
To sign Payton, I really believe McNair would have had to can Kubiak, and he didn't want to hurt his feelings or anything.

But forget about the money because it goes much deeper than that. Kubes is a decent OC but he is also a control freak of the highest order. No way would he give Payton the kind of power to run the offense like he had in Indy.

76Texan
11-12-2013, 05:17 PM
I would damn near never extend a running back in this league. Tough position to play at a high level for a long period of time.

It wasn't an extension, it was a new contract.
Peterson is two years older than Foster, and he got a $100M 7 yr contract with $36M guaranteed in 2011.

Foster's deal was for five years at $43.5M and $20.75; that's less than 60% on both counts, and part of Foster's money was "back-pay" for signing at the minimum level for a fourth year player, which isn't very much.

And Peterson's running style is more susceptible to injury.

TheMatrix31
11-12-2013, 05:17 PM
Unsubstantiated garbage.

76Texan
11-12-2013, 05:20 PM
anybody who says we couldnt afford him is talking nonsense.

If you decided to stake your future with Manning you will make the necessary roster moves to accommodate his salary.

All these posters saying we cant afford him is just trying to find a way to rationalize the mistake of not signing peyton and instead choosing schaub. They are the same posters who disregarded manning and chose schaub so you see a lot of warped back tracking trying to downplay that huge mistake by saying we couldnt afford him.

what a load of crock.

Just admit the fact you were wrong about manning and his ability to come back from that injury. No need to make up lies about not being able to afford him. Were you people involved in the negotiations? Heck, where there even negotiations going on to lay claim to the lie that we couldnt afford him?

They should have gauged Peyton's interests and took an honest and professional effort to hear him out. Maybe he takes less to win now.

Instead just like a lot of posters with case keenum's ability, they dont even want to give it a chance.

Typical front office, typical fanbase.

I wanted Peyton, but I knew the Texans had no money to sign him.
To have him, you have to lose a lot of talents.
Manning alone can't compensate for that.

Playoffs
11-12-2013, 05:21 PM
Lance Z explained pretty well how we couldn't have done it. Broncos had much more money to offer than we did.

well then someone on the radio is a gd liar...

I'm shocked!

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/casablanca145.jpeg

ensign_lee
11-12-2013, 05:22 PM
I wanted Peyton, but I knew the Texans had no money to sign him.
To have him, you have to lose a lot of talents.
Manning alone can't compensate for that.

Keep in mind that the one year where Peyton was expected to play and didn't, the Colts went 2-14.

Texian
11-12-2013, 05:24 PM
How the heck do you not extend Foster?

Easy, you could've tendered him instead, he was a RFA.

DX-TEX
11-12-2013, 05:29 PM
This.

fwiw, John McClain contends to this day that Houston was Manning's first choice because he wanted to play with AJ.

Obvious hindsight being 20/20, but it was never truly an option because of the second thing Dutch mentioned. No way could Kubiak give so much control of his offense to Manning. I have no doubt about that, as well.

Manning wanted to stick it to Irsay more than playing with Dre. Just shows how much of a horse and pony show this organization has become.

Honoring Earl 34
11-12-2013, 05:29 PM
I can see the Texans brass passing because they ( like shanny ) believe the system wins not players . It's a plug and play thing where you don't need the most athletic guys but the guys who are willing to do what's ask .

76Texan
11-12-2013, 05:40 PM
Easy, you could've tendered him instead, he was a RFA.

His original contract was for 2 years; they tendered him in his third year, with "a promise to take care of him".

Remember that he was an UDFA, the Texans would have gotten nothing for him in 2011 if he decided to field offers from the rest of the NFL.

He chose to take the minimum salary in 2011; I'm sure that there was a hand-shake deal in the work for 2012.

Nobody will leave a load of money on the table.

76Texan
11-12-2013, 05:43 PM
You dont know that at all. The deal he got with denver is the deal he got with denver.

Not necessarily the deal the texans would have to pay him.

Had the texans actually opened and courted negotiations with manning then they came out and said, we cant afford him,

I would have been perfectly fine by that.

We didnt even bother hearing him out or negotiating with him. To say we couldnt have afforded him and we would have to gut half the team is a complete fabrication.

Perhaps he would take a mil less, but we don't know that for a fact either.
I would think that these agents always work in the dark negotiating with different clubs.
Who knows, Peyon might have used the Texans as a bait, even if it was indirect.

Dutchrudder
11-12-2013, 05:43 PM
His original contract was for 2 years; they tendered him in his third year, with "a promise to take care of him".

Remember that he was an UDFA, the Texans would have gotten nothing for him in 2011 if he decided to field offers from the rest of the NFL.

He chose to take the minimum salary in 2011; I'm sure that there was a hand-shake deal in the work for 2012.

Nobody will leave a load of money on the table.

Well, who cares? So you don't give him the extension he wanted, so he goes to free agency and looks for greener pastures. In the meantime, we sign a Hall of Fame QB who is in the conversation for GOAT. I'd feel bad for Foster, but it is a business. And it wouldn't be the first time someone left the Texans and was unhappy with the way Rick Smith treated them.

Sorry, HOF QB > great RB.

76Texan
11-12-2013, 05:45 PM
Keep in mind that the one year where Peyton was expected to play and didn't, the Colts went 2-14.

They quitted!

Norg
11-12-2013, 05:53 PM
im peytons eyes I think the Texans were his first choice to go to obvs the most talented team and he would stay in his divison

I think in secret he called they said NO and that was it

Looking back it was obvs a HUGE error money was not a issues we could have made it happen but they rolled the dice they thought schaub could do it

76Texan
11-12-2013, 06:00 PM
Well, who cares? So you don't give him the extension he wanted, so he goes to free agency and looks for greener pastures. In the meantime, we sign a Hall of Fame QB who is in the conversation for GOAT. I'd feel bad for Foster, but it is a business. And it wouldn't be the first time someone left the Texans and was unhappy with the way Rick Smith treated them.

Sorry, HOF QB > great RB.

The problem is that Foster was "promised" the money a year ealier.

Double Barrel
11-12-2013, 06:00 PM
this right here and the fact that we had a talented roster replete with pro bowlers. Manning had a chance to actually win the superbowl with the texans along with sticking to Irsay and the colts twice a year.

I cant believe people are gullible and deluded enough to go with the whole "he wants to play with dre" homer angle.

Why can't it be all of the above?

Stick it to Irsay
Play with a roster full of talent, including an elite WR
Good weather city with a dome stadium
Play in a division he knows

But honestly, TheMatrix31 nailed it. This rumor has always been unsubstantiated. The only info you find about it is in blogs and forums. There is no credible source to confirm any of it, even two years later.

ObsiWan
11-12-2013, 06:05 PM
why do we continue to....

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTV_pcHiAhwWmJ3Zik6FxxLjj3oOJwdA mLLLGz1yyClkeGGzwEi

ObsiWan
11-12-2013, 06:07 PM
Not true at all. abc 13 and fox 26 houston ran segments about it at the time.

Not true.

The operative word in DB's post was "credible".
:bender:

cstyle42
11-12-2013, 06:08 PM
Keep in mind that the one year where Peyton was expected to play and didn't, the Colts went 2-14.

Colts organization is like Baltimore's not Houston's.

Dutchrudder
11-12-2013, 06:13 PM
The problem is that Foster was "promised" the money a year ealier.

Boo hoo. Someone else would have paid him. It's not like he was going to be poor. We wouldn't have given him 40m if his real value was in the 20m range.

2012Champs
11-12-2013, 06:15 PM
I remember a lot of people here wanting no part of manning because of uncertainty, now he paid off and the revisionist history is coming out.

As a "Schaub lover" I was all for manning deal but didn't think the money was doable

EllisUnit
11-12-2013, 06:16 PM
Lance Z explained pretty well how we couldn't have done it. Broncos had much more money to offer than we did.

pretty sure he still would have come here, getting to play his old team twice was prob giving manning a woody just thinking about it.

Double Barrel
11-12-2013, 06:29 PM
Not true at all. abc 13 and fox 26 houston ran segments about it at the time.

Not true.

Yes, true. It was a rumor with Bob Allen.

Here's his quote:

"Someone I know who is close friends with the Manning family says Peyton is definitely interested in coming to the Texans. Manning will be released by the Colts early next month and will be a free agent. The person who knows the Mannings says Peyton wants to play on a team that has a chance of going to a Super Bowl, and the Texans fit that description."

Source (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports/pro/football&id=8542447)

It's basically Bob Allen's blog on ABC 13's website. This is where it started, btw.

Still waiting for a credible source to confirm it.

You do understand the definition of rumor, yeah?

Here is Bob Allen clarifying his statement (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/02/14/bob-allen-peyton-manning-is-definitely-interested-in-coming-to-texans/)

Bob Allen basically read a text of a Manning family member through someone not named.

Rumor (https://www.google.com/search?q=rumor+definition&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7MXGB_enUS531): a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth

Manning could have had half a dozen teams he was interested in joining. This could have been put out there to get the Broncos to make a deal. Any number of scenarios could exist, but let's not act like Manning was not getting his calls returned by Bob McNair.

infantrycak
11-12-2013, 06:30 PM
Why can't it be all of the above?

Stick it to Irsay
Play with a roster full of talent, including an elite WR
Good weather city with a dome stadium
Play in a division he knows

But honestly, TheMatrix31 nailed it. This rumor has always been unsubstantiated. The only info you find about it is in blogs and forums. There is no credible source to confirm any of it, even two years later.

Spot on. I don't doubt there was some level of consideration and interest by both but I am not buying this it was a done deal, he would have taken a discount and the Texans rejected him storyline.*

I remember a lot of people here wanting no part of manning because of uncertainty, now he paid off and the revisionist history is coming out.

Definitely.

Not true at all. abc 13 and fox 26 houston ran segments about it at the time.

Not true.

Yes true. The most that got reported was rumor he would consider the Texans on his short list.

Dutch - I think you are leaving a lot of context out of making it seem so obvious to sign Manning. Dude was not even cleared to practice. He was rehabbing all the way up to and into the 2012 season. There was more than a little risk.

* As a side note, think of how contrary this story is to public opinion around here. To believe it, the most intelligent QB in the game arguable GOAT had to believe the Texans were poised for a SB run with the current coaching staff (and most of the same players) that now everyone and their dog has known for years was incompetent and could never take a team to the Super Bowl.

Double Barrel
11-12-2013, 06:48 PM
my point still stands, It was covered by abc13 and fox 26 houston.

It was on television. That's how i heard about it first. It wasnt just relegated to some obscure corner of the internet that you claimed.


I know it's true, oh so true, 'Cause I saw it on TV (http://www.metrolyrics.com/i-saw-it-on-tv-lyrics-john-fogerty.html) ~ John Fogerty :bguitar:

Your words = "obscure corner of the internet"

I never said that. Your hyperbole has risen to shrieking levels, even when I agree with some of your overall points.

If your quarterback is matt schaub and peyton manning becomes available,

You ask for a meeting. Take stab at it. At least ask for a meeting. Give yourself a chance.

I agree completely. Kick the tires and talk. No harm, no foul if nothing works out.

Whats' with this team and fanbase being so against taking a chance?

What's with some of this fanbase holding the delusion that they get to have any say in it?

And this franchise takes chances. What do you think Ed Reed was about? Just because it ended up being a bad decision in hindsight doesn't mean it wasn't taking a chance.

Dutchrudder
11-12-2013, 07:01 PM
Dutch - I think you are leaving a lot of context out of making it seem so obvious to sign Manning. Dude was not even cleared to practice. He was rehabbing all the way up to and into the 2012 season. There was more than a little risk.



I never said it was sooooo obvious that we should sign him. I said 1) that it absolutely was feasible to give him a competitive offer, and 2) that if you can get a HOF/GOAT QB, that he's more important than a great RB.

That is assuming he passed a medical evaluation and isn't trying to pull an Ed Reed. Of course there was considerable risk involved, if there wasn't any, Peyton would have been traded instead of cut. Peyton even gave the Broncos several outs for injury/performance in year 1 and year 3. There was zero guaranteed money in his deal, but instead his salaries become guaranteed if he's on the active roster to begin the seasons. If he was willing to make those kinds of concessions for the Texans, then I think the risk is quite limited.

For the Texans though, the biggest risk is that you would be giving away Schaub in the process, who at the time wasn't nearly as bad as he is now. Taking away a moderately healthy QB with a long injury history and replacing him with a possibly unhealthy QB could be a huge disaster too. However, I think in 2012 you could have traded Schaub and his 1 year, 10m dollar deal for at least a 4th and picked up a decent QB in the draft to backup Manning.

In any case, the only unacceptable reasons I can see for not getting Peyton are, "We promised Foster a lot of money" and Kubiak not wanting to work with him. If it truly was injury concern, then sure, you don't sign the guy and give away capable starters. However, it sounds to me like he wasn't really evaluated by our team.

ChampionTexan
11-12-2013, 07:49 PM
His original contract was for 2 years; they tendered him in his third year, with "a promise to take care of him".

Remember that he was an UDFA, the Texans would have gotten nothing for him in 2011 if he decided to field offers from the rest of the NFL.

He chose to take the minimum salary in 2011; I'm sure that there was a hand-shake deal in the work for 2012.

Nobody will leave a load of money on the table.

Him being a UDFA has nothing to do with it. If you have two years of NFL experience, you are an Exclusive Rights Free Agent with whatever team you were signed with last holding those rights.

Arian literally had two options after his second season. Either sign for what the Texans offered him, or sit out of football for a year. He had absolutely zero right to field offers from another NFL team once that ERFA offer was tendered.

ChampionTexan
11-12-2013, 08:00 PM
I remember a lot of people here wanting no part of manning because of uncertainty, now he paid off and the revisionist history is coming out.

As a "Schaub lover" I was all for manning deal but didn't think the money was doable

I'm not sure I'd say he paid off. So far he has a first round playoff exit, and a pair of bad ankles.

I think the bar for Peyton paying off is set pretty high. He's clearly not reached it yet, and he may or may not reach it at all. They say high ankle sprains don't heal without rest, and I don't see much rest in his future right now.

Bad ankles and either cold weather or a road game (or both) aren't a good combination for him.

Thorn
11-12-2013, 08:30 PM
blah blah blah

Some of you need to read Corrosions sig on hindsight.

76Texan
11-12-2013, 09:46 PM
Him being a UDFA has nothing to do with it. If you have two years of NFL experience, you are an Exclusive Rights Free Agent with whatever team you were signed with last holding those rights.

Arian literally had two options after his second season. Either sign for what the Texans offered him, or sit out of football for a year. He had absolutely zero right to field offers from another NFL team once that ERFA offer was tendered.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/1/15/3880908/nfl-free-agency-2013-rfa-tender-amounts

At the lowest level of tender, if another team offers Foster a better deal than the $1.something M, which is for sure can and would have happened, the Texans get nothing as compensation since Foster was not drafted.

It is not true that Foster had to sit out if he didn't agree with the tender.

infantrycak
11-12-2013, 10:04 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/1/15/3880908/nfl-free-agency-2013-rfa-tender-amounts

At the lowest level of tender, if another team offers Foster a better deal than the $1.something M, which is for sure can and would have happened, the Texans get nothing as compensation since Foster was not drafted.

It is not true that Foster had to sit out if he didn't agree with the tender.

You are mixing up restricted free agents (multiple tender levels, negotiate with other teams, right to match, compensation) and exclusive rights free agents (one tender level, no negotiations, play for them or don't play).

ChampionTexan
11-12-2013, 10:26 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/1/15/3880908/nfl-free-agency-2013-rfa-tender-amounts

At the lowest level of tender, if another team offers Foster a better deal than the $1.something M, which is for sure can and would have happened, the Texans get nothing as compensation since Foster was not drafted.

It is not true that Foster had to sit out if he didn't agree with the tender.
As my post pointed out, he wasn't a RFA, he was an ERFA. There's a difference, and it's pretty big.

From the Chronicle immediately after the 2010 season (Bolding added for emphasis):

Foster, however, is an exclusive-rights free agent, which essentially means the Texans retain his rights and are not required to reward his blockbuster season. All the organization must do is tender a qualifying minimum offer if Foster is unhappy with the sum, he could refuse to sign and not report, but he's not free to shop his services to other teams.LINK (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-Foster-caps-breakout-season-with-rushing-1692208.php)

76Texan
11-12-2013, 11:22 PM
As my post pointed out, he wasn't a RFA, he was an ERFA. There's a difference, and it's pretty big.

From the Chronicle immediately after the 2010 season (Bolding added for emphasis):

LINK (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-Foster-caps-breakout-season-with-rushing-1692208.php)

Never mind, my bad; for some reason I thought he was RFA.

Brisco_County
11-12-2013, 11:59 PM
Kubiak wouldn't want Manning here because he'd be a coach killer. Manning is not at all a scripted WCO quarterback. Trying to shoehorn him into that would've produced poor results, and forced Smith into the position of choosing between Kubiak and Manning.

Norg
11-13-2013, 03:28 AM
if I remember right that was the same year Matt was coming off his liz frank injury


so I was thinking at the time hell both QB's Matt or peyton would be a risk LOL