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IDEXAN
11-08-2013, 01:02 PM
COLLEGE STATION – Texas A&M coach Kevin Sumlin is a top target of Southern California, the Los Angeles Daily News wrote this morning. Sumlin addressed the early USC rumors more than a month ago by saying, “It means you’re winning and doing things the right way.”

In early October Sumlin, 49, said it comes down to being one of two types of coaches: When rumors abound you’re going be fired, or hired by someone else. Sumlin also told me in the offseason regarding stories that he’d been courted by the NFL, “We just got here” in terms of getting the Aggies program rolling.

A&M finished fifth last year – its first top five finish since 1956 – in only his first season at A&M. The Aggies are 7-2 so far this season with narrow losses to Alabama (49-42) and Auburn (45-41). Privately, Sumlin’s offered every indication he’d love to stay at A&M, where he once served as an offensive coordinator under R.C. Slocum, but he did tell me over the summer he might consider the NFL “someday.”

And the job I’d keep an eye on regarding that is the Houston Texans, should Gary Kubiak retire or not be brought back. Sumlin, who’s held in high regard by the Texans brass, is extremely familiar with that organization, having served as the Houston Cougars’ head coach from 2008-11. And uprooting his children from Aggieland to Houston, where they lived before, wouldn’t be as big a deal as moving elsewhere.
http://blog.chron.com/sportsupdate/2013/11/report-sumlin-the-top-target-of-usc-keep-an-eye-on-texans/?cmpid=hpbn#15438101=0

Playoffs
11-08-2013, 01:19 PM
If it were me, I'd much rather go to a major college program like UT or USC than the pros.

TheIronDuke
11-08-2013, 01:25 PM
Next thread:

Can IDEXAN start threads in the correct section of the forum?

Dutchrudder
11-08-2013, 02:05 PM
Can you imagine what would happen if we hired Sumlin and then they draft Manziel in the 1st? I think this forum would explode.

Hervoyel
11-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Can you imagine what would happen if we hired Sumlin and then they draft Manziel in the 1st? I think this forum would explode.


Can you imagine what would happen if we hired Sumlin and then they didn't draft Manziel in the 1st?

Oh wait, same thing. "Explode". Never mind.

Honestly, I'd just dig it to see hundreds of thousands of Aggies crap perfectly formed ACME bricks all at the same time.

Uncle Rico
11-08-2013, 02:12 PM
Hire Sumlin and no need to draft QB, go all defense in the draft and problems solved! Pop champagne next year.

badboy
11-08-2013, 02:12 PM
I would be cautiously optimistic of Sumlin as I would anyone else. I think a well respected college coach could do well with Texans and a local boy would probably bring a couple years of patience from fans. I think he would be very happy with Keenum.

Texian
11-08-2013, 02:12 PM
Based on how bad the Texas A&M defense has played I'm not so sure I am sold on Sumlin. And I think the Texas A&M offense is more to do with Johnny Manziel than it is does Kevin Sumlin. Some team could get Franchioneed here. Think back to TCU, LaDainian Tomlinson and Dennis Franchione. Alabama and Texas A&M got Franchioneed.

HOU-TEX
11-08-2013, 02:12 PM
Kubiak isn't going anywhere, but I'd take Shaw if forced to play this silly game

steelbtexan
11-08-2013, 02:12 PM
If BoB hires Sumlin I'm done.

Sumlin has never won a confrence championship and always loses 1-2 games a yr that he shouldn't lose, both at UH and A&M.

If BoB hires Sumlin it will obviously be to appease the Aggie fans after Gary is fired. 8 yrs of Aggie leadership/Mediocrity is enough.

kingtexan
11-08-2013, 02:15 PM
Sumlin during the press conferences when asked about JFF's bad habits seemed to struggle to put a sentence together. I am not impressed. Doesn't seem all that bright to me.

Pollardized
11-08-2013, 02:35 PM
"Could Texans compete with USC for Kevin Sumlin ?" If you're not down with that, I've got 2 words for ya:

ART BRILES

TexansBull
11-08-2013, 02:47 PM
If it were me, I'd much rather go to a major college program like UT or USC than the pros.

I see this as a lateral move. Is A&M not on the same level?


Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

False Start
11-08-2013, 02:50 PM
Sumlin has never won a confrence championship and always loses 1-2 games a yr that he shouldn't lose, both at UH and A&M.

I'm with you. Thats my main issue with him, if he can get over that, I would love to have him.

Pollardized
11-08-2013, 02:51 PM
I see this as a lateral move. Is A&M not on the same level?


Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

A&M is way better than either of those.

Double Barrel
11-08-2013, 02:54 PM
Sumlin has no experience in the NFL, iirc. I would not want a head coach that has absolutely no NFL pedigree.

We've seen great college coaches chewed up and spit out by the NFL too many times. For every Jimmy Johnson you have Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, Bobby Petrino, Dennis Erickson, etc.

Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh do not count, as they had NFL experience as player or coach before their current teams.

jaayteetx
11-08-2013, 03:00 PM
No thanks, pass.

infantrycak
11-08-2013, 03:01 PM
No if for no other reason than I am freaking tired of hearing people piss and moan about Aggies, Aggies attending games, drafting because they are Aggies, etc.

A&M is way better than either of those.

Says an Aggie? USC is considered a much better/more prestigious job and likely carries a much bigger salary.

Double Barrel
11-08-2013, 03:06 PM
No if for no other reason than I am freaking tired of hearing people piss and moan about Aggies, Aggies attending games, drafting because they are Aggies, etc.

No doubt. We've had the Fresno Mafia and the Bevo Homers invade the board in the past, and their undying loyalty toward an individual player over team has taught us the limits of their 'devotion' to the Houston Texans.

Dutchrudder
11-08-2013, 03:11 PM
Can you imagine what would happen if we hired Sumlin and then they didn't draft Manziel in the 1st?

Oh wait, same thing. "Explode". Never mind.

Honestly, I'd just dig it to see hundreds of thousands of Aggies crap perfectly formed ACME bricks all at the same time.

I think it would result in Twilight levels of fanboyism. You would have Team JFF vs Team CK, and it would be hilarious. Probably terrible for the team, but it would be amusing.

I see this as a lateral move. Is A&M not on the same level?


The money, prestige, recruiting potential and loation are all better at USC and UT, but other than that, it's pretty much a lateral move.

Unless you mean geographically, then yeah LA is only a couple degrees north of CS.

Thorn
11-08-2013, 03:17 PM
Unless you mean geographically, then yeah LA is only a couple degrees north of CS.

When California slides off into the Pacific he'll be sorry.

IDEXAN
11-08-2013, 03:25 PM
Next thread:

Can IDEXAN start threads in the correct section of the forum?
I didn't know this thread was inappropriate for this section, seemed where it belonged to me ? But if the mods want to move it elsewhere, it's certainly their call to do so, I don't have that pay grade in these parts.

since02
11-08-2013, 05:12 PM
Kubiak isn't going anywhere, but I'd take Shaw if forced to play this silly game

this...
Im convinced after last nights game... Shaw is the man for the job

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-08-2013, 05:26 PM
I'm on the Shaw bandwagon as well.

TheIronDuke
11-08-2013, 05:27 PM
I didn't know this thread was inappropriate for this section, seemed where it belonged to me ? But if the mods want to move it elsewhere, it's certainly their call to do so, I don't have that pay grade in these parts.

I guess they think it pertains to the Texans then. Certainly a change from SOP but thats fine with me.

Rey
11-08-2013, 05:47 PM
I like Sumlin and I'd take him IF he came with an excellent Defensive co-ordinator.

Say Watt
11-08-2013, 06:23 PM
The money, prestige, recruiting potential and loation are all better at USC and UT, but other than that, it's pretty much a lateral move.


I'll give you prestige and location, but I really think you are undervaluing just how much the times have changed. A&M has as much money and as good of facilities as basically any college football program in the nation. See the $450M expansion of Kyle Field as Exhibit A. The move to the SEC has also turned A&M, and likely will keep them, into a perennial top 10 recruiting program. Combine that with the outrageous living expenses in California with a salary that probably wouldn't be any better than what the Aggies can offer him, and I think you are letting the sunscreen and chicks in skimpy bikinis cloud your judgment.

speedfreek
11-08-2013, 06:24 PM
Give me Holgorsen as an OC -- He was the brains behind
Keenum at UH, Weeden at OSU, and Smith at WVU.

Bring in a legit ST coach..

Keep Wade and Gary, see if we can use the talent we currently
have to finish what we started this year without throwing
everything away..

Don't want Shaw -- After watching his team it's clear that
he wins with basic football and an overwhelming talent
advantage (size, strength, smarts, etc..)

I don't think, unless we want to trash our entire offensive
line, we could run anything like what he does at stanford
and succeed.

There is too much parity in the NFL to just come in and go
old-school. He isn't going to be able to "out-recruit" in the
pros..

The future in the NFL, I believe, is new offensive philosophy
not the old..

TJ

htownfan32
11-08-2013, 07:10 PM
Can you imagine what would happen if we hired Sumlin and then they didn't draft Manziel in the 1st?

Oh wait, same thing. "Explode". Never mind.

Honestly, I'd just dig it to see hundreds of thousands of Aggies crap perfectly formed ACME bricks all at the same time.

No one is expecting the Texans to draft Manziel.


Addressing everyone else:
USC is a program whose football product on the field (don't get started on intangibles like "prestige") is far inferior to A&M's, at the moment. A&M's star is on the rise, and Sumlin knows that. He built a 2 million dollar house in College Station and his kids are getting settled. He has no ties to USC or the West Coast (he was an OC here at A&M under Franchione, I think). In two years he will have the finest college football stadium in Texas. And last but not least... if you think A&M won't throw as much and more money than USC at Sumlin, you're wrong. A&M is a big money school, and it's gaining ground in every field.

I read the article in the LA news in question, and in the comments section from what I can divulge it looks like the LA natives think the writer is something like McClain over here at the Chron.

He will only leave for the NFL.

Seegara
11-08-2013, 07:27 PM
Yes, the Texans could attract him, but I don't think we want to. Schneider at Kansas State or Saban at Alabama would be a better choice.

Sumlin is probably to smart to leave Texas to live in LA, even to coach USC.

chicagotexan2
11-08-2013, 10:19 PM
When California slides off into the Pacific he'll be sorry.

I don't think it's gonna happen in your lifetime thorn, even if youCan been around since Pangea.

TexansSeminole
11-09-2013, 02:36 AM
We aren't moving off of Kubiak after this year.

Btw, we already have a thread discussing if the A&M program is on par with USC, let's not rehash this discussion.

thunderkyss
11-09-2013, 07:10 AM
Sumlin seems to be a stand-up guy & his, "We just got here." statement pretty much says it all. He's going to honor the terms of his contract, he's going to do the right thing by the kids he recruited.

Unless he's on his last year of his contract... he's not going anywhere.

chicagotexan2
11-09-2013, 09:32 AM
Sumlin seems to be a stand-up guy & his, "We just got here." statement pretty much says it all. He's going to honor the terms of his contract, he's going to do the right thing by the kids he recruited.

Unless he's on his last year of his contract... he's not going anywhere.

Money talks. The guy is a hot commodity and hell get more money from the aggies or someone else.

TexansSeminole
11-09-2013, 09:49 AM
Money talks. The guy is a hot commodity and hell get more money from the aggies or someone else.

Agreed. If the money comes from a USC or on par program, he'll leave. It's not even so much about the money as it is about a better opportunity.

P.S. I already know that Aggie fans are going to roll their eyes at this post.

welsh texan
11-09-2013, 10:09 AM
I think the bits of our D that are devoid of talent are also the bits where wades scheme differs from the norm, nt, ilb, olb, and safety.

I don't think changing dc but sticking with a 3-4 would be a terrible idea.

Same goes for kubes' offense.

Oline is ****, oline differs from your average scheme. A change doesn't do much harm really, we can keep the talent and change the scheme.

Texian
11-09-2013, 10:45 AM
Agreed. If the money comes from a USC or on par program, he'll leave. It's not even so much about the money as it is about a better opportunity.

P.S. I already know that Aggie fans are going to roll their eyes at this post.

Some will argue that coaching in the SEC is the better opportunity. PS and I am not an Aggie.

gg no re
11-09-2013, 10:56 AM
Maybe I'm not subscribed to the Chron to see it, but nowhere in the article do I see a reference to the Texans other than the headline, nor is there one in the original LA Daily News article.

2slik4u
11-09-2013, 12:30 PM
Am I the only one that hopes and prays that neither manziel or sumlin end up with texans?

If it we're up to me for a HC next season, I'd like to see Mike Zimmer -DC for the Bengals as our next coach.

The Pencil Neck
11-09-2013, 12:40 PM
Am I the only one that hopes and prays that neither manziel or sumlin end up with texans?

You are not the only one.

ThaShark316
11-09-2013, 12:45 PM
If Kube bounced (which I think he should for health reasons...otherwise, bring him back), Sumlin is my #1 choice.

ChampionTexan
11-09-2013, 12:54 PM
Am I the only one that hopes and prays that neither manziel or sumlin end up with texans?

If it we're up to me for a HC next season, I'd like to see Mike Zimmer -DC for the Bengals as our next coach.

Right now, I could live with Manziel, but the idea of a coach with zero NFL background excites me not at all. Right or wrong, count me on the side of those who say there's not going to be a HC vacancy before next season anyway, but if I'm wrong about that, and they do look to the college ranks for the next guy, I'd much rather it be David Shaw. Heck, as much as I dislike him as a human being, I'd rather see Nick Saban get another NFL shot before I'd want Sumlin.

TheMatrix31
11-09-2013, 01:42 PM
If I'm getting rid of Kubiak, I want a proven head coach. Some rinky-dink college loser will not cut it.

DocBar
11-09-2013, 09:48 PM
If I'm getting rid of Kubiak, I want a proven head coach. Some rinky-dink college loser will not cut it.I would be in discussions with Cowher now. Hopefully, he'd keep Dennison as OC. Keenum would flourish in this offensive system better than just about any other and Cowher could go D and OL early and often in the draft.

PapaL
11-09-2013, 10:51 PM
You know what I want? An actual HC. Not a OC playing HC. Not a DC playing HC but an actual HC that trusts his coordinators to do their jobs.

Yeah I understand that they're gonna want things done a certain way, especially in their field of expertise, but still.

Capers was our DC playing HC.
Kubiak is our OC playing HC.

Norg
11-09-2013, 10:55 PM
For some reason I was thinking NIck sabain today maybe he wants another shot at diss NFL

DocBar
11-09-2013, 11:40 PM
For some reason I was thinking NIck sabain today maybe he wants another shot at diss NFLSaban is where he needs to be. Coaching college and NFL is so different it's ridiculous. Texans need an NFL coach if the choose to make a change after this season.

TheMatrix31
11-10-2013, 05:21 AM
College coaches come in on rebuilding teams. We're not rebuilding. We have Arian Foster, Duane Brown, Andre Johnson, JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, and Jonathan Joseph. We have to win now.

Texian
11-10-2013, 08:20 AM
College coaches come in on rebuilding teams. We're not rebuilding. We have Arian Foster, Duane Brown, Andre Johnson, JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, and Jonathan Joseph. We have to win now.

This team's best years are behind them, their window has closed. They bet the farm in 2011 and came up short.

Hervoyel
11-10-2013, 08:20 AM
If Kubiak does not come back due to health reasons (and he will come back) then the next head coach of the Houston Texans is Wade Phillips.

Of that I am certain. That deal has already been made and if they go on a tear here in the second half of the season under Wade that will just further convince Bob that he's got his man on the payroll already.

Bob never saw a piece of Fool's Gold that he didn't fall in love with when it came to hiring Texans coaches or front office personnel.

ArlingtonTexan
11-10-2013, 08:26 AM
If Kubiak does not come back due to health reasons (and he will come back) then the next head coach of the Houston Texans is Wade Phillips.

Of that I am certain. That deal has already been made and if they go on a tear here in the second half of the season under Wade that will just further convince Bob that he's got his man on the payroll already.

Bob never saw a piece of Fool's Gold that he didn't fall in love with when it came to hiring Texans coaches or front office personnel.

I so hope you are wrong. Wade has shown that he is NOT any better than Kubes as head coach.

Hervoyel
11-10-2013, 08:31 AM
I so hope you are wrong. Wade has shown that he is NOT any better than Kubes as head coach.

I'd say he's technically better but still in the same "tier" as Kubiak. His W/L record is better than Gary's. I think that should count for something considering how many times he's taken over for someone who resigned or was fired. That will add losses to your overall record.

But I agree that he's still just an improved "Gary" kind of coach. Great coordinator who isn't the answer at HC.

But we're getting him whether we like it or not.

IDEXAN
11-10-2013, 08:39 AM
This team's best years are behind them, their window has closed. They bet the farm in 2011 and came up short.
Yea, the '11 team was definitely our team and that's before and after Schaub got injured in the TB game when fat Albert blew out Schaub's lisfranc and he was gone for the season. We still had both DeMeco & Barwin and a healthy Cushing & Jonathan Joseph on our defense and the right side of our OLine to name a few of the pieces we didn't have after 2011.

cstyle42
11-10-2013, 09:20 AM
I'd be soooo shocked and happy at the same time. Would be a great hire!

DocBar
11-10-2013, 09:39 AM
College coaches come in on rebuilding teams. We're not rebuilding. We have Arian Foster, Duane Brown, Andre Johnson, JJ Watt, Brian Cushing, and Jonathan Joseph. We have to win now.I wouldn't be surprised at all if JJo and Foster are both gone next season. JJo cuz he's stinking it up and Foster because he retires. Back problems are very debilitating and he has to be considering his quality of life after football.

That's gonna make Tate's situation very interesting in the offseason.

mussop
11-10-2013, 09:53 AM
I say bring back Shanahan. I think he's ready. He's still young. He knows the system and players so not much would have to change.

DocBar
11-10-2013, 10:03 AM
I say bring back Shanahan. I think he's ready. He's still young. He knows the system and players so not much would have to change.I would love to have him back as OC. This offense was so much better when he was the OC. Of course, it's looking like that now with Case playing.

I'm not sure I'd want him as a HC yet. Interesting idea, though. :thinking:

Texian
11-10-2013, 10:27 AM
This offense was so much better when he was the OC.


They also had better players

Norg
11-10-2013, 10:29 AM
we need to re tool next year and get rdy for the SB in Houston in 2015 cuz that's the year we NEED 2 win the SB

DocBar
11-10-2013, 12:19 PM
They also had better playersHow do you figure that? Maybe at RT. Newton is the only RT that Winston would be better than.

b0ng
11-10-2013, 12:36 PM
Can you imagine what would happen if we hired Sumlin and then they draft Manziel in the 1st? I think this forum would explode.

Isn't Keenum the original "Sumlin QB"?

Just to watch what happens in this particular forum, I'm hoping the Texans draft Derek Carr in the first round.

DocBar
11-10-2013, 01:01 PM
Isn't Keenum the original "Sumlin QB"?

Just to watch what happens in this particular forum, I'm hoping the Texans draft Derek Carr in the first round.I've thought that same thing a few times!!!:barman:

Mr. Texan
11-10-2013, 03:21 PM
A&M is way better than either of those.

only to an aggie.

Texian
11-10-2013, 03:37 PM
How do you figure that? Maybe at RT. Newton is the only RT that Winston would be better than.

Winston, Brisel, Dreessen, Casey, Leach, Jones, Walters, Holiday

infantrycak
11-10-2013, 04:49 PM
Winston, Brisel, Dreessen, Casey, Leach, Jones, Walters, Holiday

Winston - small loss.
Briesel - small loss.
Dreessen - no loss.
Casey - no loss.
Leach - big loss.
Jones - has been upgraded.
Walter - upgraded.
Holiday - no loss to the offense.

Texian
11-10-2013, 05:17 PM
Winston - small loss.
Briesel - small loss.
Dreessen - no loss.
Casey - no loss.
Leach - big loss.
Jones - has been upgraded.
Walter - upgraded.
Holiday - no loss to the offense.

I see you've substantiated your opinion....with your opinion.

Winston in 2011 was a Top 5 RT = BIG Loss, still haven't replaced with = or better talent. Texans rushing has declined since his departure. Foster's YPC has never been the as high.

Brisiel in 2011 was an above avg RG = Noticable Loss,

Dreessen in 2011 was the #3 Run Blocking TE = BIG loss, still haven't replaced his above avg blocking. Texans rushing has declined since his departure. Foster's YPC has never been the as high.


Jones in 2011 had 31 receptions, just this year Hopkins has that many receptions.

Walter in 2011 had 39 receptions, 2012 41 receptions, Walter + Jones = 70 receptions, no #2 & #3 have come close to that # of receptions.

Saying is one thing, doing is another.

infantrycak
11-10-2013, 07:09 PM
Dreessen in 2011 was the #3 Run Blocking TE = BIG loss, still haven't replaced his above avg blocking. Texans rushing has declined since his departure. Foster's YPC has never been the as high.

Saying is one thing, doing is another.

And you are lying again - after having been corrected once.

Foster's ypc was higher this year than Dreessen's last year (4.5 v. 4.4). Plus the biggest drop off was when Leach left the year before.

ones in 2011 had 31 receptions, just this year Hopkins has that many receptions.

Walter in 2011 had 39 receptions, 2012 41 receptions, Walter + Jones = 70 receptions, no #2 & #3 have come close to that # of receptions.

In 2011 JJ had 31 rec. in 16 games in his 5th NFL season. Hopkins has 31 rec. in 8 games of his rookie season.

Walter + Jones 2011 (a season AJ was out for 9 games): 70 rec., 986 yds, 5 TDs.
Hopkins + Posey 2013 (8 games X 2): 80 rec., 1144 yds, 4 TDs.

thunderkyss
11-10-2013, 07:18 PM
Winston in 2011 was a Top 5 RT...

shouldn't there be some qualifiers in there?

Top 5 running, top 5 in getting QB sacked? Top 5 in false starts?

Texian
11-10-2013, 07:59 PM
And you are lying again - after having been corrected once.

Foster's ypc was higher this year than Dreessen's last year (4.5 v. 4.4). Plus the biggest drop off was when Leach left the year before.

Nope not lying and wrong or erroneus information is never my intent. According to PFF stats Winston was in fact a top 5 RT in 2011. It's a premium site so no link, pay to see. Also according to PFF Dreessen was the #3 TE in run blocking in 2011. And I try not to make a habit of calling people liars.

In 2011 JJ had 31 rec. in 16 games in his 5th NFL season. Hopkins has 31 rec. in 8 games of his rookie season. That's exactly what I said with the caveat that it was only this yr that the Texans got better at #2 WR.

Walter + Jones 2011 (a season AJ was out for 9 games): 70 rec., 986 yds, 5 TDs.
Hopkins + Posey 2013 (8 games X 2): 80 rec., 1144 yds, 4 TDs.

Nope not lying and wrong or erroneus information is never my intent. According to PFF stats Winston was in fact a top 5 RT in 2011. It's a premium site so no link, pay to see.

Lot of assuming on Hopkins and Posey and while you noted AJ was out 9 games you have fail to note how many games Daniels has missed this year.

shouldn't there be some qualifiers in there?

Top 5 running, top 5 in getting QB sacked? Top 5 in false starts?
Yes, No, No

It is not important what Winston, Walter, Jones, Brisiel, Casey are doing to day. What some folks fail to realize is the Texans had a top 5 RT now they don't, the Texans had an above avg RT now they don't, Walter Jones and Casey accounted for 100 catches that haven't successfully been replaced. To make excuses or suggest things are better today is a case of denial.

thunderkyss
11-10-2013, 08:22 PM
Yes, No, No

It is not important what Winston, Walter, Jones, Brisiel, Casey are doing to day. What some folks fail to realize is the Texans had a top 5 RT now they don't, the Texans had an above avg RT now they don't, Walter Jones and Casey accounted for 100 catches that haven't successfully been replaced. To make excuses or suggest things are better today is a case of denial.

I've never liked Eric Winston & was pleased when he left. He was not a top 5 RT, there was no "pro bowl" talk outside of this board. He may have been top 5 as a run blocking RT..... but not a top 5 RT.

Texian
11-10-2013, 08:29 PM
I've never liked Eric Winston & was pleased when he left. He was not a top 5 RT, there was no "pro bowl" talk outside of this board. He may have been top 5 as a run blocking RT..... but not a top 5 RT.

Yes he was a top 5 RT his last year as Texan, very few if any RT make the Pro Bowl because most fans vote for the higher profile LT so Pro Bowls usually end up with all LTs. According to the PFF 2011 stats they had him listed as a Top 10 OT and a Top 5 RT. Now if you want to rag on PFF that's understandable, most people do when it doesn't agree with their thinking. Those same people are the first to quote PFF when it supports their ideas. I try for objectivity and reality of the situation.

infantrycak
11-10-2013, 09:05 PM
Nope not lying and wrong or erroneus information is never my intent. According to PFF stats Winston was in fact a top 5 RT in 2011. It's a premium site so no link, pay to see.

Learn to read. I was clearly talking about Foster and Dreessen not Winston.

Lot of assuming on Hopkins and Posey and while you noted AJ was out 9 games you have fail to note how many games Daniels has missed this year.

Actually it would be one projection - 8 games to 16.

Silly me on OD:
2011 - 100 rec. by TEs.
2013 (8 games) - 50 rec. by TEs.

You do the math.

Tolar's Ghost
11-11-2013, 01:12 AM
Interesting that there's so much talk about Sumlin, yet next to none about Briles despite his terrific track record at Baylor - with several QBs.

And it was Briles (not Sumlin) who recruited Keenum, along with Kolb, RG3 (originally for UH) and now Petty.

Sumlin didn't even recruit Manziel; Mike Sherman did.

Let the Cowboys take Sumlin. Briles is every bit as sharp.

Note to the poster who suggested Cowher: (As a Steeler fan), nice thought. But unlikely to happen. He's too happy living in the Big Apple with Queen V. If he coaches again - a big if - it probably would be for one of the NY teams.

Mari-OWNED!
11-11-2013, 05:36 AM
Good question. I really don't think the Texans could compete with USC. They'd rip the Texans o-line to shreds...

thunderkyss
11-11-2013, 06:53 AM
Yes he was a top 5 RT his last year as Texan...

If he were a top 5 RT we'd have tried to keep him, renegotiate his contract, or Antonio's or Wade Smiths.... but we didn't. He sucked in KC & he sucks in Arizona. PFF's got their stats, I've got history.

Heck, our own fans wanted to move him to guard because we knew he couldn't handle the tackle position.

Texian
11-11-2013, 09:04 AM
Learn to read. I was clearly talking about Foster and Dreessen not Winston.



Actually it would be one projection - 8 games to 16.

Silly me on OD:
2011 - 100 rec. by TEs.
2013 (8 games) - 50 rec. by TEs.

You do the math.

Learn to read, I was clearly talking about Daniels.

You folks do realize that the Texans have lost 7 in a row and could've easily have lost 9 in a row?

Texian
11-11-2013, 09:12 AM
If he were a top 5 RT we'd have tried to keep him, renegotiate his contract, or Antonio's or Wade Smiths.... but we didn't. He sucked in KC & he sucks in Arizona. PFF's got their stats, I've got history.

Heck, our own fans wanted to move him to guard because we knew he couldn't handle the tackle position.

The reason Winston was released is because he offered the MOST SALARY CAP RELIEF without any dead money attached. (along with Vickers, Lienart and trading Ryans) You're still missing the point, it is not what Winston is doing today, it's the fact that the Texans today have still NOT REPLACED that value and quality of play of the RT of 2011. You want history the Texans have lost their last 7 games. Your disappointing Winston history is when he wasn't a Texan. More history, the Texans RT play has been terrible the last 2 years.

otisbean
11-12-2013, 07:25 AM
The reason Winston was released is because he offered the MOST SALARY CAP RELIEF without any dead money attached. (along with Vickers, Lienart and trading Ryans) You're still missing the point, it is not what Winston is doing today, it's the fact that the Texans today have still NOT REPLACED that value and quality of play of the RT of 2011. You want history the Texans have lost their last 7 games. Your disappointing Winston history is when he wasn't a Texan. More history, the Texans RT play has been terrible the last 2 years.

I don't see how you can discount current level of play in the equation. You're definitely right in that money played a role but it's not the only role. I think it was a combination of the cap benefits you mention plus the fact they knew Winston's play was dropping off. Your also right in that they certainly haven't replaced his talent level. Newton was a young player that I'm guessing they expected would grow into the position, obviously that hasn't been the case.

2012Champs
11-12-2013, 07:41 AM
If BoB hires Sumlin I'm done.

Sumlin has never won a confrence championship and always loses 1-2 games a yr that he shouldn't lose, both at UH and A&M.

If BoB hires Sumlin it will obviously be to appease the Aggie fans after Gary is fired. 8 yrs of Aggie leadership/Mediocrity is enough.



Well this alone would be reason enough for me to support the hire of Sumlin :lol:

2012Champs
11-12-2013, 07:44 AM
I see this as a lateral move. Is A&M not on the same level?


Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

A&M is way better than either of those.

No one is expecting the Texans to draft Manziel.


Addressing everyone else:
USC is a program whose football product on the field (don't get started on intangibles like "prestige") is far inferior to A&M's, at the moment. A&M's star is on the rise, and Sumlin knows that. He built a 2 million dollar house in College Station and his kids are getting settled. He has no ties to USC or the West Coast (he was an OC here at A&M under Franchione, I think). In two years he will have the finest college football stadium in Texas. And last but not least... if you think A&M won't throw as much and more money than USC at Sumlin, you're wrong. A&M is a big money school, and it's gaining ground in every field.

I read the article in the LA news in question, and in the comments section from what I can divulge it looks like the LA natives think the writer is something like McClain over here at the Chron.

He will only leave for the NFL.


While I think A&M is on the rise and their product on the field is currently better than UT or USC its not close in terms of coaching jobs. A&M would have to continue to get better and stay that way for many years to come for the gap to close.

Texian
11-12-2013, 09:38 AM
I don't see how you can discount current level of play in the equation.

New team, new coaches, new offensive system, new assignments and responsibilities that do not compare to what the Texans are doing. The Texans in 2011 had a Top 5 RT. Since then they haven't come close to replacing that quality and value.

otisbean
11-12-2013, 09:47 AM
New team, new coaches, new offensive system, new assignments and responsibilities that do not compare to what the Texans are doing. The Texans in 2011 had a Top 5 RT. Since then they haven't come close to replacing that quality and value.

I won't argue that they haven't replace the RT, but I don't think his release is purely cap based. I know they need cap relief and his contract presented a way to improve the cap situation but I think it's a reasonable assumption that they could see a degradation in performance and essentially predict a drop off in his level of play. He hasn't played as well since. It could be a different situation as you mention but it could just as easily be a down slide in his performance

Texian
11-12-2013, 10:07 AM
I won't argue that they haven't replace the RT, but I don't think his release is purely cap based. I know they need cap relief and his contract presented a way to improve the cap situation but I think it's a reasonable assumption that they could see a degradation in performance and essentially predict a drop off in his level of play. He hasn't played as well since. It could be a different situation as you mention but it could just as easily be a down slide in his performance

The fact is after re-signing Arian Foster the Texans were $5 million over the Salary Cap the day before the start of the new league year. The Texans had no choice but to reduce their salary cap by $5 million and if they didn't the league office would've done it for them. Winston gave them that $5 million. Lienart and Vickers gave the Texans enough additional space to re-sign Chris Myers a few days later. Still needing addition salary cap room the Texans traded Ryans a few days after re-signing Myers.

otisbean
11-12-2013, 10:23 AM
The fact is after re-signing Arian Foster the Texans were $5 million over the Salary Cap the day before the start of the new league year. The Texans had no choice but to reduce their salary cap by $5 million and if they didn't the league office would've done it for them. Winston gave them that $5 million. Lienart and Vickers gave the Texans enough additional space to re-sign Chris Myers a few days later. Still needing addition salary cap room the Texans traded Ryans a few days after re-signing Myers.

Check your PMs

Dutchrudder
11-12-2013, 11:07 AM
The fact is after re-signing Arian Foster the Texans were $5 million over the Salary Cap the day before the start of the new league year. The Texans had no choice but to reduce their salary cap by $5 million and if they didn't the league office would've done it for them. Winston gave them that $5 million. Lienart and Vickers gave the Texans enough additional space to re-sign Chris Myers a few days later. Still needing addition salary cap room the Texans traded Ryans a few days after re-signing Myers.

Trading Demeco added an extra 1m to the cap that year. It was a questionable move at best.

Honoring Earl 34
11-12-2013, 11:29 AM
The Texans talent level shows in their special teams play . That's why Rick Smith is toast IMO . I also think RS over reacted and screwed up the Montgomery , Wood , and Willie thing . Nobody likes a righteous loser and you brought them in .

thunderkyss
11-13-2013, 03:42 PM
The reason Winston was released is because he offered the MOST SALARY CAP RELIEF without any dead money attached. (along with Vickers, Lienart and trading Ryans) You're still missing the point, it is not what Winston is doing today, it's the fact that the Texans today have still NOT REPLACED that value and quality of play of the RT of 2011. You want history the Texans have lost their last 7 games. Your disappointing Winston history is when he wasn't a Texan. More history, the Texans RT play has been terrible the last 2 years.

I'm not missing the point. I know exactly why Winston was cut. I also know it's silly for me to expect Schaub, OD, or Ben Tate to play as well as they did in 2011.

Things haven't worked out well for us in a lot of the moves we've made since then. Doesn't change the fact that saying, "Winston was a top 5 RT." doesn't make it true.

Heck, if we'd not have been cap strapped, we could have kept Winston & Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed, Johnathan Joseph, Bryce McCain, & Darryl Sharpton would have played better.

Maybe Ed Reed would have been in All-pro form.

Victor B
11-13-2013, 05:11 PM
The only way I'm down for Sumlin coaching this team is if he brings Dana Holgerson with him as OC.

Texian
11-13-2013, 05:54 PM
The only way I'm down for Sumlin coaching this team is if he brings Dana Holgerson with him as OC.

what about defense? The Aggies are giving up 40 points a game.

thunderkyss
11-15-2013, 06:49 AM
Sumlin won't leave College Station, just like Cowher won't return to coaching.

Tailgate
11-15-2013, 07:32 AM
Interesting that there's so much talk about Sumlin, yet next to none about Briles despite his terrific track record at Baylor - with several QBs.

And it was Briles (not Sumlin) who recruited Keenum, along with Kolb, RG3 (originally for UH) and now Petty.

Sumlin didn't even recruit Manziel; Mike Sherman did.

Let the Cowboys take Sumlin. Briles is every bit as sharp.

Note to the poster who suggested Cowher: (As a Steeler fan), nice thought. But unlikely to happen. He's too happy living in the Big Apple with Queen V. If he coaches again - a big if - it probably would be for one of the NY teams.


THIS!!!!

Why in the hell would anyone want Sumlin?? The main reason he is even in CS is because of Art Briles recruit Keenum. Then Sumlin walks into a Sherman recruited Manziel/top notch O-Line situation?? What a lucky sob.

Sumlin has YET to start his very own recruited QB.

Texian
11-15-2013, 08:58 AM
THIS!!!!

Why in the hell would anyone want Sumlin?? The main reason he is even in CS is because of Art Briles recruit Keenum. Then Sumlin walks into a Sherman recruited Manziel/top notch O-Line situation?? What a lucky sob.

Sumlin has YET to start his very own recruited QB.

That defense is atrocious. Don't understand why anyone would want a HC with that D.

Stemp
11-15-2013, 10:45 AM
This may be a moot point. Word is A&m is working on an extension and raise for sumlin.

USC offered 6M per year, which state taxes reduces to 5.4m but a higher cost of living
A&m is offering 5M without the tax and a lower cost of living.

Hervoyel
11-15-2013, 11:49 AM
THIS!!!!

Why in the hell would anyone want Sumlin?? The main reason he is even in CS is because of Art Briles recruit Keenum. Then Sumlin walks into a Sherman recruited Manziel/top notch O-Line situation?? What a lucky sob.

Sumlin has YET to start his very own recruited QB.

So you're saying that Sumlin is a coach who can win if you pair him with the right GM who can find him talent. Got it.

VTexan
11-15-2013, 11:54 AM
call me crazy but i much more inclined of taking on an unknown quantity (sumlin, briles,etc) over known quantities like lovie smith.

im happy with sumlin if we get keep wade on or get another very experienced DC so that dude doesn't have to even touch our D.

tedr
11-15-2013, 11:59 AM
I'd be happy with either, but I'd prefer Briles over Sumlin. He's resurrected two college programs in the last 10 years, has won a conference championship, and has an outside chance (slim as it might be) at a national championship.

I know he signed a big extension, but the Texans should at least give him a call after the season is over.

Texian
11-15-2013, 12:06 PM
This may be a moot point. Word is A&m is working on an extension and raise for sumlin.

USC offered 6M per year, which state taxes reduces to 5.4m but a higher cost of living
A&m is offering 5M without the tax and a lower cost of living.

So Texas A&M is getting Franchioneed by their very own Head Coach. That would be a first and something that you come to expect from Texas A&M. I believe Texas A&M would be better off letting Sumlin go to USC and then hiring Chad Morris (one of their own).

Tolar's Ghost
11-15-2013, 12:44 PM
...I'd prefer Briles over Sumlin...the Texans should at least give him a call after the season is over.

I don't think Briles getting a long extension means that much. It's basically the school telling him, "Hey, Art, we love you. Please don't leave!"

However.....my wife (Mrs. Ghost) is very plugged in at UH. She says that people in and around the football program there have felt for years that Briles would very much like to coach in the NFL.

They say he's itching to see if his ability to produce high-scoring offenses would translate to the pro game. As something of a late-bloomer in the coaching ranks (I think he's 56 or 57), I could see him looking for that challenge soon.

That said, maybe an even better candidate would be Keith Butler, the Steelers' longtime linebackers coach and heir-apparent to LeBeau.

Insideop
11-15-2013, 02:52 PM
So Texas A&M is getting Franchioneed by their very own Head Coach. That would be a first and something that you come to expect from Texas A&M. I believe Texas A&M would be better off letting Sumlin go to USC and then hiring Chad Morris (one of their own).

I don't think Sumlin is going anywhere. A&M can match any $$ that USC can offer and, like a previous poster said, the taxes and cost of living in Cal. would pretty much negate any pay difference. Now, if the NFL calls, that might be a different story.

infantrycak
11-15-2013, 03:00 PM
I don't think Sumlin is going anywhere. A&M can match any $$ that USC can offer and, like a previous poster said, the taxes and cost of living in Cal. would pretty much negate any pay difference. Now, if the NFL calls, that might be a different story.

His wife and kids might have something to say about that and last I checked College Station didn't have views like this from your patio.

http://pacificviewcenter.com/images/photos_2858.jpg

kingtexan
11-15-2013, 03:19 PM
last I checked College Station didn't have views like this from your patio.

http://pacificviewcenter.com/images/photos_2858.jpg

I beg to differ

signed Mushrooms ...

Tolar's Ghost
11-15-2013, 03:49 PM
The only way I'm down for Sumlin coaching this team is if he brings Dana Holgerson with him as OC.

From one TT newbie to another...

I can't see a head coach at a major college - not to mention a relatively young HC - leaving to be an OC in the NFL.

Stemp
11-15-2013, 03:54 PM
His wife and kids might have something to say about that and last I checked College Station didn't have views like this from your patio.


I know it's hard to believe for people who dislike a&m but Charlene sumlin loves the BCS area. She's not enthusiastic about uprooting her family again and this time moving across the country. She has many close friends in Houston and CS (one of whom is my source of info). They want to stay and are working towards that goal.

Tolar's Ghost
11-15-2013, 04:02 PM
Good info. Can't see him moving to Calif.

But if the Texans - or, heaven forbid, the Cowboys - come calling and back up the Brink's truck, I think he'd jump to the NFL in a second.

htownfan32
11-15-2013, 04:19 PM
His wife and kids might have something to say about that and last I checked College Station didn't have views like this from your patio.

I'll beg to differ there. His wife and kids are probably much more likely to influence him to stay from all accounts. Last I checked College Station didn't have much of this either:

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/assets_c/2008/12/Image1-thumb-400x390-thumb-300x292.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/48322824.jpg

drs23
11-15-2013, 06:12 PM
If BoB hires Sumlin I'm done.

Sumlin has never won a confrence championship and always loses 1-2 games a yr that he shouldn't lose, both at UH and A&M.

If BoB hires Sumlin it will obviously be to appease the Aggie fans after Gary is fired. 8 yrs of Aggie leadership/Mediocrity is enough.

steelb, IF McNair hires "your guy" will he be Bob? If he doesn't will he still be BoB, BooB or any other enteration one could imagine with a three letter name? :D

Just axin'.

Afterthought: Who would your guy be?