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speedfreek
11-04-2013, 11:52 AM
Just heard that Kubiak was given stroke meds at the hospital..
Bad, bad news.

Having known multiple stroke survivors, he's going to have to
change his lifestyle if a stroke is truly what he suffered.

Because of this, and the fact that Dennison will now most likely
be setting the gameplan and calling the plays: I believe Schaub
should be named the starter for next week.

Why?

I simply have no faith that Dennison (or Wade for that matter)
could put together a winning offensive gameplan to make use
of Keenum's skillset.

In fact, I think we will see plays straight off the Denny's menu...
(something I saw a little of in the second half last night)

If that is the case, then Schaub probably gives us the best
chance to win against these weak teams with a non-elite
pass rush..

(and if Arian shows up and plays gangbusters we will know
he was taking a dive for Schaub with the injuries..)

Either that, or Dennison needs to work with Case to integrate
some of the stuff he did in college. (so Keenum can modify things
at the line)

He was fairly successful during his last bowl game running the
offense at the line of scrimmage after Sumlin left for A&M and
the special teams coach was named interim head coach..

Ok go ahead, flame me now..

TJ

WolverineFan
11-04-2013, 12:02 PM
Hope that's not true about Kubes, but either way you are jumping way ahead of yourself. No chance Keenum isn't the starter regardless of what is going on with Kubiak. You can't bench a guy who's playing like that and not expect a mutiny.

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 12:02 PM
You know how certain sportswriters are forever ridiculed and their opinions are disregarded because of some silliness they wrote once? Like that guy who panned the JJ Watt pick and said the Texans would rue the day they didn't take the fat guy from Alabama. That guy has no credibility now.

You just said the team should start Matt Schaub again. That's on the record now.

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 12:04 PM
I agree with the OP but only because I want us to lose the rest of our games and I think Schaub starting would be the ideal way to accomplish that.

blitz90
11-04-2013, 12:04 PM
Maybe the most illogical idea ever written on the Internet.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 12:05 PM
Don't get me wrong, I -hate- Schaubs play. I've been the biggest
homer for Keenum on this forum..

I also understand the points about mutiny, etc.

But... if this team goes 2-14 with Kubiak
in the hospital, I think we see a new head coach here next year..

(and that means years of re-tooling, Keenum gone,
AJ suffering through more losing seasons, etc..)

What a mess we are in. (injuries, poor play, and all..)

I think burning the Schaub jersey has angered the Gods..
:smiliepalm:

TJ

Exascor
11-04-2013, 12:06 PM
You know how certain sportswriters are forever ridiculed and their opinions are disregarded because of some silliness they wrote once? Like that guy who panned the JJ Watt pick and said the Texans would rue the day they didn't take the fat guy from Alabama. That guy has no credibility now.

You just said the team should start Matt Schaub again. That's on the record now.Yeah. He asked to be flamed. That was too gentle imo.

No matter who the coach is, no matter who the OC is, no matter if EVERY other starter on offense is injured, no matter...well you get the picture...Keenum should start. The only reasons that Keenum shouldn't be starting are:
1) Keenum is injured
2) Keenum plays much worse than Schaub did

Let's hope that neither happens.

Thorn
11-04-2013, 12:06 PM
Don't want Schaub back. Ever. Even if they play a conservative game plan, Keenum can still release the ball quicker and throw it better. Even if it's just dumping off for five yards.

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 12:06 PM
I understand your point, but if this team goes 2-14 with Kubiak
in the hospital, I think we see a new head coach here next year..

(and that means years of re-tooling)

What a mess we are in. (injuries, poor play, and all..)

I think burning the Schaub jersey has angered the Gods..
:smiliepalm:

TJ

Ask Kansas City if it takes years and years with a new HC and staff to start winning.

Seegara
11-04-2013, 12:07 PM
Just heard that Kubiak was given stroke meds at the hospital..
Bad, bad news.

Having known multiple stroke survivors, he's going to have to
change his lifestyle if a stroke is truly what he suffered.

Because of this, and the fact that Dennison will now most likely
be setting the gameplan and calling the plays: I believe Schaub
should be named the starter for next week.

Why?

I simply have no faith that Dennison (or Wade for that matter)
could put together a winning offensive gameplan to make use
of Keenum's skillset.

In fact, I think we will see plays straight off the Denny's menu...
(something I saw a little of in the second half last night)

If that is the case, then Schaub probably gives us the best
chance to win against these weak teams with a non-elite
pass rush..

(and if Arian shows up and plays gangbusters we will know
he was taking a dive for Schaub with the injuries..)

Either that, or Dennison needs to work with Case to integrate
some of the stuff he did in college. (so Keenum can modify things
at the line)

He was fairly successful during his last bowl game running the
offense at the line of scrimmage after Sumlin left for A&M and
the special teams coach was named interim head coach..

Ok go ahead, flame me now..

TJ
I'm not flaming you for being a realist. In fact I just tried to post a poll on the source of a new coach if Kubiak can't return (though I hope he's ok). My poll wouldn't be accepted and the thread is listed as moved but won't open. The choices in the poll were:
1. Someone on Texans staff
2. An assistant coach with another NFL team
3. Somebody from collegiate ranks
4. Somebody not currently coaching

kingtexan
11-04-2013, 12:08 PM
Don't want Schaub back. Ever.

^this

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 12:12 PM
Keenum made at least a dozen plays last night that Schaub can no longer make. It looks like Schaub was listening in on the playcalling last night but otherwise did nothing to support Keenum. #$%@ Schaub. It's ridiculous to say that barring injury he should see the field again in a Texans uniform. But then again nothing seems to change on this team without an injury occuring....

Exascor
11-04-2013, 12:13 PM
I'm not flaming you for being a realist. In fact I just tried to post a poll on the source of a new coach if Kubiak can't return (though I hope he's ok). My poll wouldn't be accepted and the thread is listed as moved but won't open. The choices in the poll were:
1. Someone on Texans staff
2. An assistant coach with another NFL team
3. Somebody from collegiate ranks
4. Somebody not currently coachingIf Kubiak is let go AND Keenum continues to look really good - Art Briles (Baylor) or Kevin Sumlin (Texas A&M) make too much sense to pass up. Both coached Keenum and could instantly have the coach/QB comfort level needed to win.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 12:13 PM
In a perfect world, I would have had Gary stay as a figurehead
coach (the players play for him) with Dana Holgorsen as OC, and
Wade Phillips as DC.

Crazy, yes, but at this point it would at least be interesting to watch.
(and I think it would work)

What probably happens is we get someone like Gruden, he fires Wade,
cuts Keenum, and 5 years later we're talking about having to draft
a better QB and determining if JJ Watt has lost a step and if AJ
will make it into the HOF on a first ballot.

Gloom and doom city for me..
TJ

kingtexan
11-04-2013, 12:15 PM
Keenum made at least a dozen plays last night that Schaub can no longer make. It looks like Schaub was listening in on the playcalling last night but otherwise did nothing to support Keenum. #$%@ Schaub.

Agreed.

Matt is such a sulking baby he keeps his helmet on the whole game ... hiding.

What a douche-bag ...

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 12:15 PM
I'm not flaming you for being a realist. In fact I just tried to post a poll on the source of a new coach if Kubiak can't return (though I hope he's ok). My poll wouldn't be accepted and the thread is listed as moved but won't open. The choices in the poll were:
1. Someone on Texans staff
2. An assistant coach with another NFL team
3. Somebody from collegiate ranks
4. Somebody not currently coaching

Wade will be announced you as the interim coach for the rest of the season by mid week (You can't afford to screw around with Kubiak's health at this point). Which probably means that we get him as our coach next year (which is a marginal improvement at best).

But assuming there some miracle occurs I want a coach with head coaching experience in the pros or college. No more coordinators...at least not on this go round.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 12:17 PM
>Ask Kansas City if it takes years and years with a new HC and staff to start winning.

Someone like Andy Reed could work with our roster for sure, but I doubt
he's leaving any time soon.

You could say the same for Harbaugh at SF.

But I just don't see a guy like that out there and available right now. And
gambling on some of these pro-style coordinators and unproven
college head coaches puts the same expression on my face that
Bullock has before a kick attempt..

TJ

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 12:18 PM
In a perfect world, I would have had Gary stay as a figurehead
coach (the players play for him) with Dana Holgorsen as OC, and
Wade Phillips as DC.

Crazy, yes, but at this point it would at least be interesting to watch.
(and I think it would work)

What probably happens is we get someone like Gruden, he fires Wade,
cuts Keenum, and 5 years later we're talking about having to draft
a better QB and determining if JJ Watt has lost a step and if AJ
will make it into the HOF on a first ballot.

Gloom and doom city for me..
TJ

Yeah....KC is in year 5 of their rebuilding project so it's right to be cautious with a coach that has already had eight years to get it done. :smiliepalm:

Rey
11-04-2013, 12:20 PM
No.

Exascor
11-04-2013, 12:21 PM
No.Rep

cstyle42
11-04-2013, 12:24 PM
I didn't know Matt Schaub was on this site posting too...

Texn4life
11-04-2013, 12:27 PM
Andre Johnson would punch the OP if he could right now.

jaayteetx
11-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Yep, about as popular as Hitler at a bar mitzvah.

ThaJokaa
11-04-2013, 12:30 PM
In a perfect world, I would have had Gary stay as a figurehead
coach (the players play for him) with Dana Holgorsen as OC, and
Wade Phillips as DC.

Crazy, yes, but at this point it would at least be interesting to watch.
(and I think it would work)

What probably happens is we get someone like Gruden, he fires Wade,
cuts Keenum, and 5 years later we're talking about having to draft
a better QB and determining if JJ Watt has lost a step and if AJ
will make it into the HOF on a first ballot.

Gloom and doom city for me..
TJ

Gruden likes Keenum if I remember correctly

WolverineFan
11-04-2013, 12:31 PM
People are wrong about KC. That was a very talented team that suffered through a ton of injuries and horrible QB play last year (Matt Cassell & Brady Quinn lol). They also had a bad Head Coach.

Todd Haley was a decent HC, but did not get along great with his players. He was fired in 2011 and replaced by interim HC Romeo Crennel. Crennel was made HC when the team went on a run after he got the job. In 2012, they went 2-14 because he had no idea how to run an offense led by Cassell/Brady and his defense had a lot of injuries.

People forget the Chiefs won the AFC West in 2010. They haven't been horrible for years. That team is loaded with talent. They had one really bad year because of a perfect swarm of ineptitude (sound familiar). They didn't rebuild overnight just by hiring Andy Reed. The defense got healthy and Reed went out and found a stable QB (Alex Smith). They play great defense, run the ball, and don't turn it over.

Marcus
11-04-2013, 12:36 PM
I've read some downright silly stuff here the last couple of days or so, but sadly, this is not the silliest. :smiliepalm:

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 12:38 PM
Two reactions:

1. Wut?

and

2. No.

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 12:46 PM
People are wrong about KC. That was a very talented team that suffered through a ton of injuries and horrible QB play last year (Matt Cassell & Brady Quinn lol). They also had a bad Head Coach.

Todd Haley was a decent HC, but did not get along great with his players. He was fired in 2011 and replaced by interim HC Romeo Crennel. Crennel was made HC when the team went on a run after he got the job. In 2012, they went 2-14 because he had no idea how to run an offense led by Cassell/Brady and his defense had a lot of injuries.

People forget the Chiefs won the AFC West in 2010. They haven't been horrible for years. That team is loaded with talent. They had one really bad year because of a perfect swarm of ineptitude (sound familiar). They didn't rebuild overnight just by hiring Andy Reed. The defense got healthy and Reed went out and found a stable QB (Alex Smith). They play great defense, run the ball, and don't turn it over.

I think the point is this. It's weak to fear change when the status quo isn't getting it done.

Will we be 9-0 next year if Kubiak is fired/resigns due to health issues and we make the right hire? Maybe but probably not.

But we know what we have in Kubiak at this point and he isn't getting it done...to the extent that it's now affecting his health. It would be foolish to stay the course again after already doing it in 2010. Since then we've won a few play off games by retaining Kubiak but has it really gotten us anything other than slightly more entertaining but ultimately disappointing football and worse draft picks?

With all the truly bizarre ways we lose games the constant is Kubiak's regime. Change could be worse but it could also be BETTER.

I'm a bit worried about what might happen if we move to a system that requires beef on the line and what that might do to our roster but it's time to rip off the band aid. Otherwise you're hoping in one hand and $%#$ing in the other to see which hand fills up first.

The Pencil Neck
11-04-2013, 12:47 PM
I think one big mistake you're making is simply not understanding the design of this offense.

When Schaub's running this offense, it's less explosive NOT because Kubiak/Dennison is calling less explosive plays and not because the other players on the offense are doing something different... it's because Schaub doesn't want to take the risk on trying to make those throws and prefers to make "safer" reads. He also can't prolong the play and buy time for guys to improvise and get open.

All of those long plays to AJ that Keenum was able to hit last night have probably been available for Schaub at various points during the season. Going back to Schaub at this point doesn't make sense.

I personally think we should just consider this a re-loading season, let keenum do his thing, try to get into the playoffs as best we can but otherwise, just fight, scratch, and claw to get this thing back on track for next year with Keenum as the man (unless he falls to pieces in the last half of the season in which case, we'll be looking for a new QB next draft and be a couple more years out from contention.)

Scooter
11-04-2013, 12:48 PM
the ONLY reason to go back to schaub is if you believe that dennison and company will do long term damage to keenum. if the line play breaks down and the playcalling gets ugly, it may be detrimental to have keenum's first season spent getting crushed and running for his life. you see it happen with early picks who go to bad teams. they spend their formative NFL seasons with bad coaching and protection, going from great potential to bust in large part because of the situation.

i think the system is firmly enough in place that that wont happen. i do believe the offense will fall off quite a bit without kubiak, much like when wade phillips was out. i dont think it will be harmful to keenum though, it's better for keenum to remain the starter and get all the first team reps and game experience. keenum needs to start, and i think dennison can keep the offense going sufficiently until (if?) kubiak returns.

ChampionTexan
11-04-2013, 12:50 PM
I didn't know Matt Schaub was on this site posting too...

Eh....more likely his father.

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 12:50 PM
I think the point is this. It's weak to fear change when the status quo isn't getting it done.

Will we be 9-0 next year if Kubiak is fired/resigns due to health issues and we make the right hire? Maybe but probably not.

But we know what we have in Kubiak at this point and he isn't getting it done...to the extent that it's now affecting his health. It would be foolish to stay the course again after already doing it in 2010. Since then we've won a few play off games by retaining Kubiak but has it really gotten us anything other than slightly more entertaining but ultimately disappointing football and worse draft picks?

With all the truly bizarre ways we lose games the constant is Kubiak's regime. Change could be worse but it could also be BETTER.

I'm a bit worried about what might happen if we move to a system that requires beef on the line and what that might do to our roster but it's time to rip off the band aid. Otherwise you're hoping in one hand and $%#$ing in the other to see which hand fills up first.

I was worried about a whole new offensive scheme that would require bigger O-linemen but then I thought, why not just give Shanny Jr a HC gig? He's young and has balls and would probably love to come back. We definitely need a new DC anyway so he can choose his own DC and ST coach and we're good to go with some hopeful high draft picks.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 12:53 PM
My lack of faith lies in the fact that I simply don't believe
Dennison knows which plays to call in each situation with
Keenum in there..

I think Dennison is the Frank Bush of the offense.

Kubiak looked like he was coming out of his box over the
last two games. I think Wade and Dennison open the
box back up and hop in together (singing kumbaya)

I will just hope that there is some magic going on in
the staff room today, and we're going to see some
no-huddle air raid mixed in with zone blocking bootlegs..

TJ

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 12:53 PM
I was worried about a whole new offensive scheme that would require bigger O-linemen but then I thought, why not just give Shanny Jr a HC gig? He's young and has balls and would probably love to come back. We definitely need a new DC anyway so he can choose his own DC and ST coach and we're good to go with some hopeful high draft picks.

Fair enough but I'm also a bit worried about anyone off the Shanahan coaching tree at this point. It may be just as irrational a fear as those that say we should keep Kubiak rather than rebuild but I don't like Shanahan's body language on the side line either and I feel like anyone training under him could be the same sort of sad sack that Kubiak is. :(

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 12:57 PM
I was worried about a whole new offensive scheme that would require bigger O-linemen but then I thought, why not just give Shanny Jr a HC gig? He's young and has balls and would probably love to come back. We definitely need a new DC anyway so he can choose his own DC and ST coach and we're good to go with some hopeful high draft picks.

My lack of faith lies in the fact that I simply don't believe
Dennison knows which plays to call in each situation with
Keenum in there..

I think Dennison is the Frank Bush of the offense.

Kubiak looked like he was coming out of his box over the
last two games. I think Wade and Dennison open the
box back up and hop in together (singing kumbaya)

I will just hope that there is some magic going on in
the staff room today, and we're going to see some
no-huddle air raid mixed in with zone blocking bootlegs..

TJ

Dennison is DEFINITELY the Frank Bush of the offense. He's a friend of Kubes and played LINEBACKER for crissakes. Name me anyone else with that background that is known as an offensive minded coach?

Having said that I'm still not convinced who calls the plays. One day you read that Kubes does...the next that it's Dennison with Kubiak having veto power (You normally hear this when some needs to defend Kubiak's poor game management). Last night the play calling in the second half looked a lot like it always does to me...an attempt to sit on a lead...so it may not matter who calls the plays. Kubes and Dennison are very likely operating from the same mindset.

Exascor
11-04-2013, 12:57 PM
I was worried about a whole new offensive scheme that would require bigger O-linemen but then I thought, why not just give Shanny Jr a HC gig? He's young and has balls and would probably love to come back. We definitely need a new DC anyway so he can choose his own DC and ST coach and we're good to go with some hopeful high draft picks.

Serious questions - what has Kyle Shanahan done to make you think "here's a clear upgrade at head coach"? Also, do you really want a rookie hc/oc hybrid?

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 01:01 PM
Just heard that Kubiak was given stroke meds at the hospital. Bad, bad news...
It is indeed, prayers out for Gary and his family.

I simply have no faith that Dennison (or Wade for that matter) could put together a winning offensive gameplan to make use
of Keenum's skillset...
I agree 100% that this team will suffer greatly without Kubiak's tailoring the playcalling to Case's strengths.

I believe Schaub should be named the starter for next week.

Ok go ahead, flame me now..TJ

Ermmm, you lost me there. Consider yourself flamed... http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/atomic.gif

Hervoyel
11-04-2013, 01:29 PM
I wasn't there. I saw it on TV but I could still hear the stadium come unglued when Keenum let the dragon loose and hit AJ on those long TD's.

Bob McNair heard that and while I had visions of the Texans racking up 40 points on the Colts and then Keenum saying "I'M GOING TO DISNEYLAND!" I have no doubt that McNair had a similar fantasy that also involved Keenum jersey sales and dollar signs everywhere.

Case Keenum is starting. He's starting the rest of the year and he's starting next year too unless he totally ****s the bed at some point this year. Bob McNair literally made it a condition of employment that Gary Kubiak keep David Carr to get the job (or so Texans lore says) and David Carr to my knowledge maybe made the crowd go nuts like that one time (his first start in 2002).

Keenum is the QB. That's just reality guys. Barring injury Schaub will never start a game for the Texans again.

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 01:33 PM
Serious questions - what has Kyle Shanahan done to make you think "here's a clear upgrade at head coach"? Also, do you really want a rookie hc/oc hybrid?

I'm just guessing but I feel like he actually had some play calling duties when he was here and the offensive production went way down after he left. Of course that's all conjecture and hear-say. To be honest, I'll take anyone as HC over Kubes. I want a HC with balls and I want Phillips gone too because our defense is starting to look a lot like the same crap we were running out there in 2010. Really would like a HC that hold people accountable and isn't afraid of making changes when stuff obviously isn't working, like Marciano's dumb ass.

b0ng
11-04-2013, 01:37 PM
I'm just guessing but I feel like he actually had some play calling duties when he was here and the offensive production went way down after he left. Of course that's all conjecture and hear-say. To be honest, I'll take anyone as HC over Kubes. I want a HC with balls and I want Phillips gone too because our defense is starting to look a lot like the same crap we were running out there in 2010. Really would like a HC that hold people accountable and isn't afraid of making changes when stuff obviously isn't working, like Marciano's dumb ass.

If I recall, he left for Washington before the 2010 season began, and when Dennison was brought in Foster and the offense had probably their best year (2010) but the defense was so bad it did not make a different.

Kyle Shannahan will be a HC in the league though, his offenses have been pretty good in Houston and Washington.

Exascor
11-04-2013, 01:42 PM
I'm just guessing but I feel like he actually had some play calling duties when he was here and the offensive production went way down after he left. Of course that's all conjecture and hear-say. To be honest, I'll take anyone as HC over Kubes. I want a HC with balls and I want Phillips gone too because our defense is starting to look a lot like the same crap we were running out there in 2010. Really would like a HC that hold people accountable and isn't afraid of making changes when stuff obviously isn't working, like Marciano's dumb ass.I'm with you on replacing Kubiak (and not with Phillips) but not with you on taking "anyone". I really don't want anything to do with anyone that would fall back to this regime's style. Kyle Shanahan runs versions of Kubiak and Papa Shanahan's offense. Yuck. Give me something new and maybe even exciting.

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 01:49 PM
I'm with you on replacing Kubiak (and not with Phillips) but not with you on taking "anyone". I really don't want anything to do with anyone that would fall back to this regime's style. Kyle Shanahan runs versions of Kubiak and Papa Shanahan's offense. Yuck. Give me something new and maybe even exciting.

Shanahan is young so I think he's more open to change. He's done some good things with RG3, I think he could bring excitement and at the same time use some of the assets we already have, like our ZBS o-line. I don't want to spend 3 drafts trying to replace all the guys we've already drafted for the o-line.

mussop
11-04-2013, 02:03 PM
I think Dennison is the Frank Bush of the offense.

TJ

And you want to give him the Matt Schaub of quarterbacks to run this offense????:mariopalm:

leebigeztx
11-04-2013, 02:19 PM
They're calling the same plays,case is executing them 1000x better. He's shooting his gun which is something schaub refused to do. Schaub shouldn't ever see the field in a texans uniform. If case gets hurt or dinged,id rather see tj than schaub. When your qb was as bad as schaub was,he brought the whole team down.

ThaJokaa
11-04-2013, 02:33 PM
They're calling the same plays,case is executing them 1000x better. He's shooting his gun which is something schaub refused to do. Schaub shouldn't ever see the field in a texans uniform. If case gets hurt or dinged,id rather see tj than schaub. When your qb was as bad as schaub was,he brought the whole team down.

Case actually makes the throws, and lets he WR make a play, Noodle Arm wont do that and just dink and dunks it.

Corrosion
11-04-2013, 02:52 PM
I'd rather end the season 2-14 with Keenum playing than start Schaub and win out from here ....

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 02:54 PM
If that happens, then we definitely will need a new coach _and_
a first round QB

I'd rather end the season 2-14 with Keenum playing than start Schaub and win out from here ....

Corrosion
11-04-2013, 02:57 PM
If that happens, then we definitely will need a new coach _and_
a first round QB

Bottom line is this team isn't going to the playoffs this season ... May as well run Keenum out there and let him learn on the job. Playing Schaub is counterproductive to that end.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 03:01 PM
> ... May as well run Keenum out there and let him learn on the job.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Bob will make Keenum's roster spot
mandatory in his next coaching hire.

A la David Carr with Gary's hire.

The sad thing is that I think Gary was coming around with Case.

I just have a feeling that Gary is done with football now -- for health
reasons.


TJ

HOU-TEX
11-04-2013, 03:06 PM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1360247/hamster-stare-down-o.gif

Exascor
11-04-2013, 03:08 PM
> ... May as well run Keenum out there and let him learn on the job.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Bob will make Keenum's roster spot
mandatory in his next coaching hire.

A la David Carr with Gary's hire.

The sad thing is that I think Gary was coming around with Case.

I just have a feeling that Gary is done with football now -- for health
reasons.


TJNah-shouldn't be any mandatory roster spot crap like Carr. It didn't work then and won't ever work. You let coaches (with the GM's help) pick their players. Especially the QB. That said...hiring Art Briles or Kevin Sumlin would almost guarantee keeping Keenum around.

burro
11-04-2013, 03:23 PM
Let's assume that you are correct and Dennison is too incompetent to call plays for Keenum (seems premature) and will be bringing back turtle ball in Kubiak's absence ..what has Matt Schaub shown you this season that indicates he could execute even a lame offense better than Keenum? This question is courtesy of a crow-eating Schaub homer btw.

Norg
11-04-2013, 03:38 PM
Keenum or scahub it does not matter anymore the season is over bra


Might has well keep Case has the starter and see what we have......... its time to pepare for next year

ziggy29
11-04-2013, 03:59 PM
>Ask Kansas City if it takes years and years with a new HC and staff to start winning.

Someone like Andy Reed could work with our roster for sure, but I doubt
he's leaving any time soon.

You could say the same for Harbaugh at SF.

Yes, and this puts a lot more pressure on coaches AND front offices. We saw what Jim Harbaugh did in SF and what Andy Reid has done for KC, and suddenly the message is that one well-timed, good-fit coaching change can turn chumps into contenders in one season. That's probably not realistic in the general case, but just the same I don't think the regime in place is ever going to get us there.

How many Texans games have there been when they dominated the first half and then also "finished" and dominated the second half? To be honest, I can't think of any. Almost all games where the Texans dominated in the first half, they came out flat and struggled to hang on and win.... or outright lost.

klockWork
11-04-2013, 04:03 PM
Because of this, and the fact that Dennison will now most likelybe setting the gameplan and calling the plays: I believe Schaub should be named the starter for next week.TJ
I likey where you going with this, speedfreek. Tanked the season by starting Schaub. Draft Clowney and watch him and Watt terrorize Luck for the next 10+ years against Indy.

Let's face it guys, we will have an uphill battle every year in this division as long as Indy has Luck for their QB. That dude will break our hearts every game if we don't upgrade our pass rushing personnel.
And just to be sure we get Clowney let's keep Bullock as our kicker as well.

ziggy29
11-04-2013, 04:09 PM
And just to be sure we get Clowney let's keep Bullock as our kicker as well.

And also as a reminder why you almost never use a draft pick on a kicker....

EVOLVIST
11-04-2013, 04:22 PM
Nah-shouldn't be any mandatory roster spot crap like Carr. It didn't work then and won't ever work. You let coaches (with the GM's help) pick their players. Especially the QB. That said...hiring Art Briles or Kevin Sumlin would almost guarantee keeping Keenum around.

So would a Gruden hire.

HouTx11
11-04-2013, 04:32 PM
I agree with the OP but only because I want us to lose the rest of our games and I think Schaub starting would be the ideal way to accomplish that.

I'm totally on board with this idea. There is no realistic chance of making the playoffs this year thanks to last night's loss.

I want what is best for the franchise: Kubiak gone, Bullock replaced, a very high 1st round pick and a healthy Keenum for 2014.

Premier
11-04-2013, 05:02 PM
You know how certain sportswriters are forever ridiculed and their opinions are disregarded because of some silliness they wrote once? Like that guy who panned the JJ Watt pick and said the Texans would rue the day they didn't take the fat guy from Alabama. That guy has no credibility now.


that dunce chris baldwin may have redeemed himself with this year old article..


Cruel NFL Draft snub of Case Keenum shows how GMs outsmart themselves, but Texans get the last laugh
By Chris Baldwin
4.29.12 | 1:42 am

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/04-29-12-cruel-nfl-draft-snub-of-case-keenum-shows-how-gms-outsmart-themselves-but-houston-texans-get-last-laugh/

mussop
11-04-2013, 05:03 PM
Bottom line is this team isn't going to the playoffs this season ... May as well run Keenum out there and let him learn on the job. Playing Schaub is counterproductive to that end.

This. This is Chances chance to show us if he has what it takes to become our QB of the future. We need to know that more than we need to win games this year. This year is over as far as the playoffs go. People just need to accept that.

mussop
11-04-2013, 05:12 PM
So would a Gruden hire.

I just don't get it! :mariopalm:

Dutchrudder
11-04-2013, 05:38 PM
The OP summed up in one picture:

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/soccer-miss.gif

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 05:48 PM
This. This is Chances chance to show us if he has what it takes to become our QB of the future.

Jeez, already giving Case's job away? I thought he did pretty well.

Corrosion
11-04-2013, 05:57 PM
So would a Gruden hire.

Kubiak's offense has been .... Dynamic since Keenum took over at QB. Lets see how they finish the season together before we go looking for coaches.


Either way , I don't want Gruden , all he did was take Dungy's team to a superbowl.

drs23
11-04-2013, 06:11 PM
So would a Gruden hire.

NO! to Chuckie. Not just no but really NO!

TejasTom
11-04-2013, 06:16 PM
Don't want Schaub back. Ever. Even if they play a conservative game plan, Keenum can still release the ball quicker and throw it better. Even if it's just dumping off for five yards.

Bring back the horse and buggy...wait that gives me idea. Schaub can play in the Amish league.

midway
11-04-2013, 06:23 PM
Kubiak's offense has been .... Dynamic since Keenum took over at QB. Lets see how they finish the season together before we go looking for coaches.


Either way , I don't want Gruden , all he did was take Dungy's team to a superbowl.

We've seen more than enough of Kubiak to know that he should be gone.

8 years as head coach with only 3 winning seasons and 2 playoff appearances?

amazing80
11-04-2013, 06:29 PM
Yea because NOT allowing Case to get reps and see if he is our future is the SMART thing to do :goodpost: :mariopalm:

Thorn
11-04-2013, 06:35 PM
As far as the playoffs go, this season is a wash. Let's just see what happens and watch Case learn the NFL. The Texans can still be fun to watch for that reason alone, even if some of the other parts of the team are just totally $hit.

Double Barrel
11-04-2013, 06:37 PM
Either way , I don't want Gruden , all he did was take Dungy's team to a superbowl.

A team, it should be noted, that Dungy was never able to take to the Super Bowl. ;)

"A Football Life" last week was on Warren Sapp. He said Dungy had one great flaw: he never held the offense accountable.

It took another coach to come in, kept what worked (defense, obviously) and implement an offense that could score.

This happens in the NFL, though not always with the success of championships. But just look at KC this year or SF last year. New coaches took the existing talent and took them to another level.

That might be what the Texans need now. Kubiak has improved this franchise, but maybe he's peaked. Another coach could come in here and they would not be starting from scratch.

Sigma
11-04-2013, 06:37 PM
the same expression that
Bullock has before a kick attempt..

You should see my expression before a kick attempt...

(you'll see me squeeze my eyes trying to send my thoughts into lechler's mind, begging him to run for the 1st down)

I don't like to bash on a single player but he's forcing me :D

(I mean Lechler, he never listens)

ziggy29
11-04-2013, 06:40 PM
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/soccer-miss.gif

This would almost be an improvement over our current placekicking situation.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 06:51 PM
>Yea because NOT allowing Case to get reps and see if he is our future is the SMART thing to do

My position is that you might not be able to see what Case can do because
Dennison is probably not going to know what to do with him (to
the extent that Gary would..)

Putting Keenum in a situation to fail means the team fails, the coaches
are gone, and likely Keenum is gone (given the way the NFL works)

I want him to succeed, because I think he can be a franchise type
QB. But having Dennison serve up a series of defeats by playing him
like Schaub isn't going to help anyone.

It's all speculation. Who knows, maybe Dennison turns into the next
Holgorsen or Malzahn or Coryell or Walsh..
(but I doubt it..)

TJ

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 08:23 PM
>Yea because NOT allowing Case to get reps and see if he is our future is the SMART thing to do

My position is that you might not be able to see what Case can do because
Dennison is probably not going to know what to do with him (to
the extent that Gary would..)

Putting Keenum in a situation to fail means the team fails, the coaches
are gone, and likely Keenum is gone (given the way the NFL works)

I want him to succeed, because I think he can be a franchise type
QB. But having Dennison serve up a series of defeats by playing him
like Schaub isn't going to help anyone.

It's all speculation. Who knows, maybe Dennison turns into the next
Holgorsen or Malzahn or Coryell or Walsh..
(but I doubt it..)

TJ

It's a moot point. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. McNair loses his fan base if they put Schaub back in and he stinks it up again.

EVOLVIST
11-04-2013, 09:00 PM
NO! to Chuckie. Not just no but really NO!

Jesus, y'all! I didn't say I wanted Gruden. The topic was which HC would want to keep Keenum if Kubes got the axe. Anyway, my choice would be Brian Billick, but I feel his head's been out of it too long and/or if he wanted to coach again he would have already done it.

Texan_Bill
11-04-2013, 09:03 PM
The OP summed up in one picture:

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/soccer-miss.gif

:spit:

Texan_Bill
11-04-2013, 09:05 PM
Jesus, y'all! I didn't say I wanted Gruden. The topic was which HC would want to keep Keenum if Kubes got the axe. Anyway, my choice would be Brian Billick, but I feel his head's been out of it too long and/or if he wanted to coach again he would have already done it.

Sumlin!

cuppacoffee
11-04-2013, 09:19 PM
Agreed.

Matt is such a sulking baby he keeps his helmet on the whole game ... hiding.

What a douche-bag ...



It was suggested by another poster in another thread that Schaub was most likely listening in to the play calls coming through his helment.

Come on man, Schaub doesn't deserve the name calling.

He was doing his best which just isn't good enough anymore.

:coffee:

legacy_gt
11-04-2013, 09:20 PM
>Yea because NOT allowing Case to get reps and see if he is our future is the SMART thing to do

My position is that you might not be able to see what Case can do because
Dennison is probably not going to know what to do with him (to
the extent that Gary would..)

Putting Keenum in a situation to fail means the team fails, the coaches
are gone, and likely Keenum is gone (given the way the NFL works)

I want him to succeed, because I think he can be a franchise type
QB. But having Dennison serve up a series of defeats by playing him
like Schaub isn't going to help anyone.

It's all speculation. Who knows, maybe Dennison turns into the next
Holgorsen or Malzahn or Coryell or Walsh..
(but I doubt it..)

TJ

we don't know anything about dennison. what team would have been ready for their coach to go down? we'll know better when we see the plays and the game.

mussop
11-04-2013, 09:32 PM
Jeez, already giving Case's job away? I thought he did pretty well.

What the hell are you talking about? Did you reply to the wrong post?

Seegara
11-04-2013, 09:56 PM
Yes, and this puts a lot more pressure on coaches AND front offices. We saw what Jim Harbaugh did in SF and what Andy Reid has done for KC, and suddenly the message is that one well-timed, good-fit coaching change can turn chumps into contenders in one season. That's probably not realistic in the general case, but just the same I don't think the regime in place is ever going to get us there.

How many Texans games have there been when they dominated the first half and then also "finished" and dominated the second half? To be honest, I can't think of any. Almost all games where the Texans dominated in the first half, they came out flat and struggled to hang on and win.... or outright lost.
Yes, head coach is the 5 most important positions on the team. I know the announcers said Dennison was the most logical one to call the offensive plays in the 2nd half, but we can't trust them to know anything. What I want to know is who did call the plays, Dennison or Phillips?

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 09:59 PM
What the hell are you talking about? Did you reply to the wrong post?

LOL, nah I'm just messin' with ya, man. You said:

This. This is Chances chance to show us if he has what it takes to become our QB of the future.

I don't know who this Chance guy is, but I prefer Keenum for now. :D

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 11:20 PM
A team, it should be noted, that Dungy was never able to take to the Super Bowl. ;)

"A Football Life" last week was on Warren Sapp. He said Dungy had one great flaw: he never held the offense accountable.

It took another coach to come in, kept what worked (defense, obviously) and implement an offense that could score.

This happens in the NFL, though not always with the success of championships. But just look at KC this year or SF last year. New coaches took the existing talent and took them to another level.

That might be what the Texans need now. Kubiak has improved this franchise, but maybe he's peaked. Another coach could come in here and they would not be starting from scratch.

Lets be technical about this though. It took him 6 freaking years to improve this team and then he had two playoff seasons. Last season could be argued was one of his worst failures considering that the entire team melted around week 12 and totally fell apart. I've never seen a team in my life go 11-1 and fall apart that fast in all phases of the team. It wasn't just Schaub. Now this season we're 2-5 with a QB playing great who Kubiak refused to play until he was forced to, and we could easily be 0-7. All Kubiak has done is tread water season by season and people seem to forget that Wade Phillips had to come in and save Kubiak's job. Here we are back to having a season like we had 3 years ago when we went 6-10, and people want to see what Kubiak can still do? It's mind boggling to me at this point. Fans in Houston want to see a SB so bad, that they'll lie to themselves year after year thinking Kubiak can bring them a Lombardi trophy but all he ever does is continually show that he he'll make the same mistakes with coaches and with his players that he won't hold accountable. First it was imagine what Kubiak could do with a good defense, but we couldn't ever get one because he refused to get rid of Smith and the other guy, then it was imagine what Kubiak could do with a #2 WR because he wouldn't get rid of Jacoby and Walter. Now it is imagine what Kubiak could do with a mobile QB who has an arm, and we end up getting all of these things when it is to late and we have some other huge hole somewhere else by the time it's fixed. But yet fans make themselves believe that Kubiak could do great things if he could just fix this one problem that isn't his doing even though it is him and Smith who refuse to fix it before it's a disaster. It's always some new gaping hole that Kubiak needs that fans clamor onto, but Kubiak can't fix until it's to late.

I don't know who is worse out of Mack Brown or Gary Kubiak. They are such similar coaches though. Nice guys who consistently under achieve with the resources they have and a forgiving fan base that just wants a "nice guy" to be in there calling the shots. Sometimes I wish I was a Philly fan after rooting for a Bob Mcnair owned team. At least the fans hold their franchise accountable and don't digest anything that their management of their team feeds them from year to year. They may be crazy and over the top, but at least they hold winning up as a top priority.

Houston football fans are fine as long as we have a football team here where they can tailgate and BBQ. Winning is just an extra if we can get it every now and then. Fans in Houston are still happy just to have a team, and that's one of the biggest problems with this franchise because Reliant sells out no matter how bad this team or regime is, and that is what sends messages at the end of the day. Fans aren't obsessed with winning nearly enough to do what is necessary to send a message to the owner, therefore the owner doesn't feel the pressure to to do anything drastic because his revenue keeps flowing either way. Mcnair isn't a passionate intense guy about the sport enough to fire people that he has great personal relationships with. We have both agreed many times about the idea of it being extremely traumatic for Mcnair to bring in new guys to adjust his entire franchise. The thought of it seems to stress him out tremendously and he doesn't want to face it.

Ryan
11-05-2013, 12:34 AM
I don't know why this stumbled upon me recently but I for some reason want to give Kubes one full year with Case Keenum next year and see where it takes us. This system seems just perfect for Keenum. It'd be a shame to let his abilities go to the wayside if the coach doesn't like him or changes to a scheme that doesn't work with his abilities.

I've been wanting Kubiak gone since 2009 so I don't even understand my own logic. :mariopalm:

mussop
11-05-2013, 01:10 AM
LOL, nah I'm just messin' with ya, man. You said:



I don't know who this Chance guy is, but I prefer Keenum for now. :D

Dope! How did I miss that. :)

burro
11-05-2013, 01:45 AM
I don't know why this stumbled upon me recently but I for some reason want to give Kubes one full year with Case Keenum next year and see where it takes us. This system seems just perfect for Keenum. It'd be a shame to let his abilities go to the wayside if the coach doesn't like him or changes to a scheme that doesn't work with his abilities.

I've been wanting Kubiak gone since 2009 so I don't even understand my own logic. :mariopalm:

I agree completely, firing Kubiak at this stage would be a half-baked decision. For all the hell we give him, Kubiak has done a great job of tailoring his system to Keenum's skill set, developing him as a player, and putting him in a position to win games. A full offseason worth of work with Keenum at the top of the depth chart could make a very dangerous offense out of this unit.

Ironically, 2010 was the last time Kubiak was on the hot seat...and in that year as well the offense was finding a rhythm and doing it's job whilst the defense and special teams **** the bed.

klockWork
11-05-2013, 02:50 AM
Sometimes I wish I was a Philly fan after rooting for a Bob Mcnair owned team. Didn't folks cheered when Schaub went down? I say there's a legion of people ahead of you on that one Tex.

TejasTom
11-05-2013, 08:10 AM
... What I want to know is who did call the plays, Dennison or Phillips?

Appears to me, Schaub called the plays.

AMartin56
11-05-2013, 08:12 AM
Lets be technical about this though. It took him 6 freaking years to improve this team and then he had two playoff seasons. Last season could be argued was one of his worst failures considering that the entire team melted around week 12 and totally fell apart. I've never seen a team in my life go 11-1 and fall apart that fast in all phases of the team. It wasn't just Schaub. Now this season we're 2-5 with a QB playing great who Kubiak refused to play until he was forced to, and we could easily be 0-7. All Kubiak has done is tread water season by season and people seem to forget that Wade Phillips had to come in and save Kubiak's job. Here we are back to having a season like we had 3 years ago when we went 6-10, and people want to see what Kubiak can still do? It's mind boggling to me at this point. Fans in Houston want to see a SB so bad, that they'll lie to themselves year after year thinking Kubiak can bring them a Lombardi trophy but all he ever does is continually show that he he'll make the same mistakes with coaches and with his players that he won't hold accountable. First it was imagine what Kubiak could do with a good defense, but we couldn't ever get one because he refused to get rid of Smith and the other guy, then it was imagine what Kubiak could do with a #2 WR because he wouldn't get rid of Jacoby and Walter. Now it is imagine what Kubiak could do with a mobile QB who has an arm, and we end up getting all of these things when it is to late and we have some other huge hole somewhere else by the time it's fixed. But yet fans make themselves believe that Kubiak could do great things if he could just fix this one problem that isn't his doing even though it is him and Smith who refuse to fix it before it's a disaster. It's always some new gaping hole that Kubiak needs that fans clamor onto, but Kubiak can't fix until it's to late.

I don't know who is worse out of Mack Brown or Gary Kubiak. They are such similar coaches though. Nice guys who consistently under achieve with the resources they have and a forgiving fan base that just wants a "nice guy" to be in there calling the shots. Sometimes I wish I was a Philly fan after rooting for a Bob Mcnair owned team. At least the fans hold their franchise accountable and don't digest anything that their management of their team feeds them from year to year. They may be crazy and over the top, but at least they hold winning up as a top priority.

Houston football fans are fine as long as we have a football team here where they can tailgate and BBQ. Winning is just an extra if we can get it every now and then. Fans in Houston are still happy just to have a team, and that's one of the biggest problems with this franchise because Reliant sells out no matter how bad this team or regime is, and that is what sends messages at the end of the day. Fans aren't obsessed with winning nearly enough to do what is necessary to send a message to the owner, therefore the owner doesn't feel the pressure to to do anything drastic because his revenue keeps flowing either way. Mcnair isn't a passionate intense guy about the sport enough to fire people that he has great personal relationships with. We have both agreed many times about the idea of it being extremely traumatic for Mcnair to bring in new guys to adjust his entire franchise. The thought of it seems to stress him out tremendously and he doesn't want to face it.

Great take. And you really struck a nerve with the Mack Brown comparison. UT is my other team and the combination of Kubiak and Brown has made watching football a miserable experience over the last few years. Pretty much for the same reasons...zero accountability.

I want Kubiak and Brown gone so I can enjoy football again. With Brown his teams always play down to his opponents so you either get a disaster or an unsatisfying late victory against a much weaker team. With Kubes I can never enjoy a good stretch of first half play because I've seen too many collapses and I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Get well Kubiak but to me you are a soul sucking / faith destroying coach. Please retire with health and happiness and let us move on!

HoustonFrog
11-05-2013, 09:59 AM
Putting the horrible medical stuff aside and me wishing Kubes a speedy recovery, I agree with Tex...egad :)....and that Kubes needs to go for the franchise to take the next step. Conservative and slow to make decisions that can improve team. My issue is now you might have a QB that fits system well and can open it up. Does Kubes rein him in and still coach close to the vest in tight games, despite what you saw in the first half?

This is really off the wall but I know my medical emergencies and near deaths colored the world a little differently for me. If Kubes comes back, maybe he relaxes a little, loses the reins and stops playing so close to the vest and starts opening things up. Just a random thought for the day that can be swept under the rug but weirder things have happened.

As for McNair, he is going to need a mutiny to get rid of Kubiak.

tedr
11-05-2013, 10:24 AM
You know, I have no idea if this would work or not, but if Kubes (may he recover quickly) is let go, I wouldn't mind seeing Art Briles in here, and have him bring in a young hotshot as DC. I really do like Kubes and Wade personally, but I think it might be time to clean house.

I'd really enjoy seeing what Briles (the only coach who saw enough in Case to offer him a scholarship) could do with Case going forward. In my mind, he's got credibility because he's basically resurrected two programs (UH and Baylor), and is an offensive genius.

I thought Gary showed a lot of foresight in signing Case, and obviously has done a great job with him the first two games. However, I think we need some new blood, and I think Briles would be a great starting point- better even than Sumlin, who would probably be a good choice as well.

Anyway, just my opinion.

eriadoc
11-05-2013, 10:27 AM
Briles is most likely never coming to the NFL.

Exascor
11-05-2013, 10:30 AM
Lets be technical about this though. It took him 6 freaking years to improve this team and then he had two playoff seasons.Well...if you want to be technical. That statement is a bunch of crap. He improved the team in 2006. That was his first season. He improved the team in 2007 even with injuries to Schaub and AJ. He maintained in 2008 despite an unprecedented hurricane Ike rescheduling & another Schaub injury. Bye week in 2008 was in week 2, first 3 games on the road (all lost) followed by the infamous "Rosencopter" game.

Any reasonable person understands that the first 3 seasons that Kubiak had really shouldn't count. He inherited a 2-14 team that really was a 2-14 team. They were crap. He had to COMPLETELY (other than AJ) turn over the roster. That is worse than an expansion team. It took a few years to replace most of the players yet in the meantime he managed to improve the team IMMEDIATELY.

Kubiak's time is done. There is plenty of ammunition against him. 2 rookie DCs, Marciano, sticking with Schaub, offenses that fail to get TDs, going with 2 young CBs in 2010, allowing the right side of the Oline to become hot garbage, undisciplined play, team failing to play a full 4 quarters, this entire season... Seriously - there is no need to post statements about the first 3 seasons that don't take into account the circumstances surrounding the end results.

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 11:15 AM
Lets be technical about this though. It took him 6 freaking years to improve this team and then he had two playoff seasons. [shortened to save space] .

I do not disagree with you. I appreciate that Kubiak has changed this young franchise's fortunes and accomplished some positive things. While the two division banners at Reliant are not a Hall of Fame career, they are still significant with regards to the fact that they are the first accomplishments of this team.

But, now is the time to be pragmatic and look big picture. I think Kubiak has peaked as a Texans head coach. In some ways, the comparison to Dungy is applicable. He took over a really bad Bucs team (although nothing nearly as bad as the 2-14 Texans), and improved them to the point of making playoff runs.

But, like Kubiak, Dungy lacked whatever intangible was needed to get the over the hump to the Super Bowl.

Right now, McNair is making a case for Kubiak to basically be our own version of Marvin Lewis (although at least Kubiak has won a couple of playoff games where Marvin is 0-4).

However, as fans, we have to realize that our owner is unresponsive to fan pressure and will do what he wants to do regardless of the fan base.

You are right that folks enjoy Texans games as entertainment events. In that regard, the franchise is first class and widely considered one of the best tailgating and gameday experiences in the league.

While some of us want more than just a fun event, the fact of the matter is that we are completely and utterly powerless to influence any of it. The sooner we truly understand this, the sooner we can stop beating our heads against the wall hoping a brick shakes loose.

BTW, I'm not excusing anything, but rather explaining my perspective of acceptance of the way things are and will continue to be. Me being mad or whatever changes nothing, so why waste my energy on the emotional investment?

mussop
11-05-2013, 11:21 AM
I do not disagree with you. I appreciate that Kubiak has changed this young franchise's fortunes and accomplished some positive things. While the two division banners at Reliant are not a Hall of Fame career, they are still significant with regards to the fact that they are the first accomplishments of this team.

But, now is the time to be pragmatic and look big picture. I think Kubiak has peaked as a Texans head coach. In some ways, the comparison to Dungy is applicable. He took over a really bad Bucs team (although nothing nearly as bad as the 2-14 Texans), and improved them to the point of making playoff runs.

But, like Kubiak, Dungy lacked whatever intangible was needed to get the over the hump to the Super Bowl.

Right now, McNair is making a case for Kubiak to basically be our own version of Marvin Lewis (although at least Kubiak has won a couple of playoff games where Marvin is 0-4).

However, as fans, we have to realize that our owner is unresponsive to fan pressure and will do what he wants to do regardless of the fan base.

You are right that folks enjoy Texans games as entertainment events. In that regard, the franchise is first class and widely considered one of the best tailgating and gameday experiences in the league.

While some of us want more than just a fun event, the fact of the matter is that we are completely and utterly powerless to influence any of it. The sooner we truly understand this, the sooner we can stop beating our heads against the wall hoping a brick shakes loose.

BTW, I'm not excusing anything, but rather explaining my perspective of acceptance of the way things are and will continue to be. Me being mad or whatever changes nothing, so why waste my energy on the emotional investment?

I dissagree with you that fans don't influence the owner. When there is enough public outcry they will listen. JMO.

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 11:23 AM
I dissagree with you that fans don't influence the owner. When there is enough public outcry they will listen. JMO.

How's that Vince Young pick working out for us?

:ohsnap:

santo
11-05-2013, 11:57 AM
How's that Vince Young pick working out for us?

:ohsnap:

Or Refgie Bush:mariopalm:

mussop
11-05-2013, 12:11 PM
How's that Vince Young pick working out for us?

:ohsnap:

Apples and oranges. No owner is going to give in to pressure to draft a player. However when the whole city is screaming for a change and the team is horribly under performing again and again you can't tell me that doesn't influence them at all

infantrycak
11-05-2013, 12:20 PM
But, like Kubiak, Dungy lacked whatever intangible was needed to get the over the hump to the Super Bowl.

Or he needed one more year. Dungy went to the 6-10 Colts and took them to the playoffs every year including a Super Bowl victory. Yes Manning had a large role in that (although some would say he choked away several playoff appearances as well).

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 12:25 PM
Apples and oranges. No owner is going to give in to pressure to draft a player. However when the whole city is screaming for a change and the team is horribly under performing again and again you can't tell me that doesn't influence them at all

Please elaborate with an example of Bob McNair making a decision on football operations based on demands of fans.

Just one example. (Firing Capers after 2-14 is not it. That was a business decision.)

Do you pay attention to McNair's press releases and interviews at all? I do not mean this in an insulting or belittling way of any sort. But honestly, have you truly paid attention to Bob McNair the past 11 years?

I ask because McNair has never shown any inclination to make decisions on football operations due to fan outcry.

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 12:32 PM
Or he needed one more year. Dungy went to the 6-10 Colts and took them to the playoffs every year including a Super Bowl victory. Yes Manning had a large role in that (although some would say he choked away several playoff appearances as well).

Maybe (on the one more year part). Or it was Gruden that instilled an offense that could score enough for the Dungy-built defense to dominate games. While merely opinion, Warren Sapp said recently that it was Gruden that gave them what they needed to go to the top. It's an opinion with merit, considering his tenure with the Bucs and his HoF career.

I think Dungy coming to the Colts was a perfect fit. You had a team with a great offense but needed a defense to go along with it. Dungy left the offense alone but brought his defensive acumen to the franchise and the results are evident.

BTW, I'm not a big Gruden fan (as HC). I'd rather have Dungy if choosing between them.

Hervoyel
11-05-2013, 01:20 PM
Please elaborate with an example of Bob McNair making a decision on football operations based on demands of fans.

Just one example. (Firing Capers after 2-14 is not it. That was a business decision.)

Do you pay attention to McNair's press releases and interviews at all? I do not mean this in an insulting or belittling way of any sort. But honestly, have you truly paid attention to Bob McNair the past 11 years?

I ask because McNair has never shown any inclination to make decisions on football operations due to fan outcry.


Correct. Sure, if it reaches a point where said fan outcry appears to be turning into fans no longer reaching for their wallets then yes, he reacts but by the time it reaches that point it is again purely a business decision on his part. So many people have to be in "fan rage" state at that point that any fool can see the decision coming.

I wonder how many times a day he gets advice from total strangers and just smiles and nods. I bet a lot.

JCTexan
11-05-2013, 03:44 PM
I've watched every possible game since 2002 and this is the only way I won't watch them this week. Yeah, that's how terrible of an idea I think starting Schaub would be.