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El Tejano
11-04-2013, 07:30 AM
He has contributed largely to the demise of this team.

dalemurphy
11-04-2013, 07:42 AM
He has contributed largely to the demise of this team.

TD was on McCain. He should have been deep on that post if they were in quarters, as it appeared.

El Tejano
11-04-2013, 08:14 AM
TD was on McCain. He should have been deep on that post if they were in quarters, as it appeared.

He gives up a lot of 3rd down catches, just like McCain.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 08:21 AM
Our secondary is a mess. Everybody's game has just seemed
to drop off a notch..

TJ

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 08:22 AM
He should have knocked away the 2pt conversion.

BullNation4Life
11-04-2013, 08:23 AM
TD was on McCain. He should have been deep on that post if they were in quarters, as it appeared.

Why the hell is this guy still on the team? If he is not giving up pass interference or holding penalties, he is giving up TDs....

embarrassing to say the least...

infantrycak
11-04-2013, 08:25 AM
This thread should be about McCain. He is clearly getting targeted. His only positive asset is supposed to be his speed and that is rarely showing on the field.

Corrosion
11-04-2013, 08:32 AM
Our secondary is a mess. Everybody's game has just seemed
to drop off a notch..

TJ

I think its the philosophy of the secondary - they play ~7 yards off in man coverage giving receivers a free release all too often. If you are gonna play man , you gotta knock them off their stride in that first 5 yards.

This also contributes to why our pass rush always seems a half a step late , QB's have that initial cushion and use it to get the ball out in a hurry.

HOU-TEX
11-04-2013, 08:50 AM
This thread should be about McCain. He is clearly getting targeted. His only positive asset is supposed to be his speed and that is rarely showing on the field.

Joseph was tore up all game too. McCain and Joseph were both abused last night. They're both in every play of this Hilton highlight clip.

Wasn't it Forbes that had Joseph the most overrated and overpaid? Who ever it was, it's becoming difficult to disagree with them. Plus, his lackadaisical tackling attempts drive me nuts

Oh, let's not forget about groveling over Reed in the offseason. He went from picking daisies in center field to only being used in packages.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000276111/Week-9-T-Y-Hilton-highlights

Rey
11-04-2013, 08:58 AM
TD was on McCain. He should have been deep on that post if they were in quarters, as it appeared.

They showed it last night and that was on Joseph.

There was another receiver that threatened the deep middle and McCain had to react to that. Joseph just flat out got burned.

Marcus
11-04-2013, 08:58 AM
I think its the philosophy of the secondary - they play ~7 yards off in man coverage giving receivers a free release all too often. If you are gonna play man , you gotta knock them off their stride in that first 5 yards.

Risky. If the pass rush doesn't get to the quarterback, you get burned for six.

otisbean
11-04-2013, 09:02 AM
Our secondary is playing like hot garbage right now. So frustrating. McCain is useless, and Im not sure what's up with JJo. I just hope there are some decent FAs available this offseason because we need serious help in the secondary

Marcus
11-04-2013, 09:15 AM
Our secondary is playing like hot garbage right now. So frustrating. McCain is useless, and Im not sure what's up with JJo. I just hope there are some decent FAs available this offseason because we need serious help in the secondary

Our secondary only seems like it's playing like garbage now, and that's because the people up front are not getting enough pressure. Every once in awhile, they get a sack or hurry a throw. But there are other times, he has all day long to throw.

But this is always a never ending debate. There are some who say the secondary is only as good as the people up front, and then there are others who think the secondary doesn't need any help. Why that is, I have no idea.

BullNation4Life
11-04-2013, 09:24 AM
Our secondary is playing like hot garbage right now. So frustrating. McCain is useless, and Im not sure what's up with JJo. I just hope there are some decent FAs available this offseason because we need serious help in the secondary

I think age and injuries are finally catching up. Look at what happened to Asomugha, one of the best shut down corners in the league, turns 30 and then BAM! hot garbage...

For athletes, for the most part, when it goes, it goes quick and very rarely does it come back...

silvrhand
11-04-2013, 09:50 AM
As wade talked, we were not in man, we were in zone on that catch and I don't think jj had the deep coverage for the play. It was on mccain again.

WolverineFan
11-04-2013, 10:50 AM
As wade talked, we were not in man, we were in zone on that catch and I don't think jj had the deep coverage for the play. It was on mccain again.

We were in Quarters. Joseph was supposed to carry his man deep. Hilton ran right by him.

McCain is not absolved in this game. He is routinely picked on and is a weak link in the defense. That one play, however, was on Joseph.

kingtexan
11-04-2013, 11:12 AM
This thread should be about McCain. He is clearly getting targeted. His only positive asset is supposed to be his speed and that is rarely showing on the field.

Agreed that McCain is the worst of the bunch, but this year nobody is showing up as a legitimate starter in this league. We get torched constantly for first down after first down. Jackson has developed a knack for trying to knock people out by going to the head, maybe we can make him a safety. DB will be a glaring need in the draft.

VTexan
11-04-2013, 11:22 AM
who would have thought kareem would be our best player in the secondary 2 years ago?

Scooter
11-04-2013, 11:31 AM
odd, i actually thought mccain had a pretty good game and joseph was the one being picked on. the deep ball was on joseph. mccain turned a fraction late for the 2pt conversion, but he appeared to me to have very tight coverage most of the game and disrupted several attempts. i remarked a few times during the game that it looked like the old mccain was back.

Exascor
11-04-2013, 11:37 AM
odd, i actually thought mccain had a pretty good game and joseph was the one being picked on. the deep ball was on joseph. mccain turned a fraction late for the 2pt conversion, but he appeared to me to have very tight coverage most of the game and disrupted several attempts. i remarked a few times during the game that it looked like the old mccain was back.

I'd like to see a gif if that play. Sure looked like McCain had that coverage. Looked like zone coverage to me.

drs23
11-04-2013, 04:20 PM
I'd like to see a gif if that play. Sure looked like McCain had that coverage. Looked like zone coverage to me.

You might need to watch it again. It was quarters and JJo was late.

Exascor
11-04-2013, 04:44 PM
You might need to watch it again. It was quarters and JJo was late.I might be thinking of another play then. I actually just heard Phillips on the radio a few minutes ago (think it was the postgame presser) say they were in zone on the big pass play. Thought that kind of confirmed it but maybe it was another play. I didn't rewatch it so I'm going off a foggy post-loss memory. :headhurts:

Exascor
11-04-2013, 04:55 PM
You might need to watch it again. It was quarters and JJo was late.

Might be a different play but here is the presser it is for what it's worth. At around 45 seconds: Texans 11-3-2013 Postgame Presser - Wade Phillips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6eRvKeXIXU&feature=youtube_gdata)

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 05:02 PM
Joseph costs more against the cap than any other player from what I heard, that's not very cool at all.

amazing80
11-04-2013, 05:15 PM
The whole secondary is a joke.....

JJO is slow and just not good anymore.....only times he makes a play is due to instincts, which are barely average


jackson is a PI machine.....throw it deep on him and guaranteed a PI call

mccain is just a joke.....slowest slot corner EVER

reed is stealing money from our front office....has he done ANYTHING for us yet?

swearinger and keo are just lost out there....ugh were terrible on the backend

4x4tx
11-04-2013, 05:38 PM
Joseph sucks and should be cut with foster, bullock, McCain, Newton and Keyshawn martin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) 2

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 07:59 PM
What are we arguing about? The Colts scored 3 TDs

The first was definitely on McCain. One was either McCain or Joseph. & the third was definitely on Joseph.

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 08:04 PM
The whole secondary is a joke.....

jackson is a PI machine.....throw it deep on him and guaranteed a PI call



He's not a play maker, so his mistakes will garner a lot more attention than if he'd intercept the ball every game or two.

Some of the PIs called against him were just ridiculous.

That one, was probably the best thing he could have done... since he was already beat. Either commit the PI prevent the guy from scoring a TD (get your whole defense 4 more opportunities to prevent the score) or let him score right there & get your defense off the field that way.

I prefer he not get beat to begin with, but I also don't know what the coverage call was there, or what he was expecting. But at the moment the ball was put in the air, I prefer the PI to a sure TD.

dtran04
11-04-2013, 08:33 PM
On 2 out of the 3 TDs, the Texans were outschemed from the start. Easy man coverage beaters that put the CBs at a distinct disadvantage. The long one was the right call but the DBs were simply too slow.

McCain alone has been beat by the same exact route combo multiple times (Charger game comes to mind). He was beaten from his alignment alone.

Beating this defense is very simple: traps/draws to beat shooting one gap linemen and quick screens/pick routes to beat man coverage

76Texan
11-04-2013, 08:42 PM
On 2 out of the 3 TDs, the Texans were outschemed from the start. Easy man coverage beaters that put the CBs at a distinct disadvantage. The long one was the right call but the DBs were simply too slow.

McCain alone has been beat by the same exact route combo multiple times (Charger game comes to mind). He was beaten from his alignment alone.

Beating this defense is very simple: traps/draws to beat shooting one gap linemen and quick screens/pick routes to beat man coverage

But the long one wasn't man coverage.

dtran04
11-04-2013, 08:51 PM
But the long one wasn't man coverage.

Right, hence 2 out of 3. On the long one, right call for the play but just physically beat.

76Texan
11-04-2013, 09:29 PM
Right, hence 2 out of 3. On the long one, right call for the play but just physically beat.

And it looks to me like JJo might have been waiting to see if Jackson was to switch man or not; just a bit of hesitation was all it took.
I honestly don't know whether the switch call is automatic or it's only on when there's a call beforehand, so that is just a guess.
Wade looks like... he was wanting JJo to jump out front, the way he reacted on the side line right afterward.

The switch is one way to combat a pick by the receiver, or a natural pick due to the combination of routes; similar to defending the pick in basketball.

Brisco_County
11-04-2013, 10:30 PM
Asomugha was just released by San Fran. Jonathan Joseph turned out to be the better FA signing after that national bidding war in 2010.