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Lurvinator11
11-03-2013, 10:40 PM
I wanted to make this thread just so we can post stuff when we know it. Also so the fans who were at the game and didn't know can check in.

All we know so far is he collapsed at the half, he was speaking, and went to the hospital. His family is with him, and he is conscious.

Lurvinator11
11-03-2013, 10:44 PM
Reporting it was not a heart attack. That is good.

stingray
11-03-2013, 10:44 PM
Just announced that it wasnt a heart attack. Good news.

ChrisG
11-03-2013, 10:44 PM
Not a heart attack, no further info

NCTexan
11-03-2013, 10:46 PM
Thoughts to Kubiak and his family. Never want this to happen to anyone.

He was making a Case for him to stay as our Head Coach tonight with his play calling.

MEGA SWATT
11-03-2013, 10:48 PM
Yep, no heart attack. The video looked like he was light headed like when you're napping on the coach and get up super fast and get light headed.....one may hunch down like he did to keep from passing out.

My point is that it was not an all out TKO type of thing that you think when you hear "collapse"

get well soon Kubes.

TexansBull
11-03-2013, 11:06 PM
Wrong thread. Sorry.

chenjy9
11-04-2013, 12:06 AM
Sucks that it happened and you could tell it really affected the team. For better or worse, the ship sticks with its captain and I respect Kubiak for that. Thoughts out to his family and I hope for a speedy recovery from whatever happened.

Big Lou
11-04-2013, 12:34 AM
I wonder if his appendix ruptured.

That or Goodell poisoned him Justine he turned the lights out in the SB.

MEGA SWATT
11-04-2013, 12:35 AM
My comments from the game thread below. Word coming out now that dehydration was a contributing factor....

I hope it is just stress, dehydration, electrolyte imbalance, low blood sugar------and NOT a heart attack or other cardiovascular issues........................get well coach Kubiak.


Concerning that Michelle Tafoya never saw his eyes open, but he was speaking.....

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 12:52 AM
I want Kubiak gone but not like this (of course). I blame McNair. Kubiak has looked dead tired at the START of games lately. It's obvious he is in over his head. Any other owner would have fired him by now. Keeping him is torture...not mercy. Now it's affecting his health. Hopefully Kubiak is okay, but put him out of his misery already. We would treat an injured dog better than this. Do you see ANY coach on an NFL sideline looking as worn out as Kubes?

WolverineFan
11-04-2013, 12:57 AM
Collinsworth was talking, earlier in the game, about how Kubiak didn't take the bye week off and worked non-stop during the off week. The guy is obviously feeling the pressure and trying to hold onto his job. The bye week is a time to rest and mentally check out. Coaches and players need that because the season is such a grind.

I think Kubiak may have just driven himself to a point where his body failed him. Hopefully he's okay and a reduction of stress and some rest will have him up and about in no time. I've been a big detractor of his for a long time, but I have always wanted him to succeed.

hradhak
11-04-2013, 01:05 AM
Good to hear that it isn't cardiac in nature.

Dizziness can actually be caused by any number of things. Not eating enough, dehydration, etc. I had heard reports that he was having pain, but not sure if that was true or not.

Hope for the best for him and a quick recovery.

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 01:06 AM
If you have to work yourself to death to be mediocre (if he leaves At the end of the year he is likely to have a career record below .500) it's time to find a new line of work. I hope he's okay and I don't mean to kick him when he's down but something has to give and I want it to be our kicker...not his ticker. I don't want to see him collapsing again. If he's that stressed after a bye week how does he survive the season?

Big Lou
11-04-2013, 01:11 AM
Can we IR Kubiak in case we want to keep him next year. But seriously God speed Kubes!

LonerATO
11-04-2013, 01:12 AM
His appendix could have burst.

VTexan
11-04-2013, 01:24 AM
let's say you could "IR" kubiak. would any of you entertain of the idea of keeping him on board next season as an offensive coordinator but have someone else run the ship?

RonnieLott42
11-04-2013, 01:24 AM
I hope Kubiak is well and does what's best for his family.

Bulls on Parade
11-04-2013, 01:30 AM
let's say you could "IR" kubiak. would any of you entertain of the idea of keeping him on board next season as an offensive coordinator but have someone else run the ship?
Sure. If say the head coaching job was offered to Kyle Shanahan from the Redskins. Somebody who's already familiar with the type of offensive schemes we already run and who can add his own wrinkles to the plate. The kid is a brilliant young mind and he probably isn't leaving his father's team unless he's given a head coaching job.

If Kubiak would feel less stress, maybe he has to do it for his health, and be okay with being demoted to the offensive coordinator job. It would basically be a role reversal of what we once had when Kyle Shanahan was here.

steelbtexan
11-04-2013, 01:58 AM
Gary I love the fact that you're an all in kinda guy,

But it's time to let it go.

God speed for you and I wish the best for you and your famliy, It may be time to start prioritizing things.

Thanks for laying the foundation for a bright future for our home town HOUSTON TEXANS.

WolverineFan
11-04-2013, 02:17 AM
let's say you could "IR" kubiak. would any of you entertain of the idea of keeping him on board next season as an offensive coordinator but have someone else run the ship?

No coach would settle for that kind of demotion. That would be a slap in the face to even ask him.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 02:29 AM
Just heard something about "stroke like" symptoms on the radio.

If that is true, meet your new interim head coach Wade Phillips..

..I say we hire Dana Holgorsen as an OC at the end of the year
when he is fired from WVU (he just can't recruit for shyte..)

The guy was the true offensive genius behind Keenum at UH,
Weeden at OSU, and at Geno Smith WVU..

I watched that guy come up with some crazy stuff, and it always
seemed to work. He'd be right back with his most successful
QB here.

Prolly get him on the cheap too.. :kingkong:

TJ

bhsman
11-04-2013, 03:57 AM
Yeah, let's wait for the guy to leave the hospital first.

Marcus
11-04-2013, 04:13 AM
If you wonder why sometimes I don't "follow the rules" on this board, check out some of the asinine, and tasteless posts in this thread from the "IQ-challenged" crowd. Makes me sick.

Malloy
11-04-2013, 05:20 AM
Being 2-6, I hope some of the late arrivals, band wagoners, go cheer for some other team...

Grams
11-04-2013, 06:52 AM
The man is in the hospital. Let's just wait till we find out he is healthy before we dump on him some more.

Thoughts and prayers for a fast and healthy recovery.

Surreal McCoy
11-04-2013, 07:15 AM
If you have to work yourself to death to be mediocre (if he leaves At the end of the year he is likely to have a career record below .500) it's time to find a new line of work. I hope he's okay and I don't mean to kick him when he's down but something has to give and I want it to be our kicker...not his ticker. I don't want to see him collapsing again. If he's that stressed after a bye week how does he survive the season?

Yesssss, AMartin... let the **** flow through you...

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 08:02 AM
You sir are a giant sized douche bag.

Yeah...because I think it is cruel to keep running the man out there under the present circumstances...whatever.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 08:14 AM
Just saw the closeup footage of Kubiak on the stretcher.
He was responsive but his eyes were completely closed.

I'm not a medical professional, but lack of facial muscle
control is usually an indicator of stroke. If he had one,
I doubt he coaches the team the rest of the year.
(rehab might take a while)

This season is cursed. Seriously..

Kubiak has actually earned my respect this year. He completely
changed his offense (in only 2 games) to take advantage
of Keenum's skills.

That is not the action of a "stubborn" or "arrogant" man --
which is what I've been hearing from sports radio and began
to believe myself..

TJ

Marcus
11-04-2013, 08:29 AM
Just saw the closeup footage of Kubiak on the stretcher.
He was responsive but his eyes were completely closed.

I'm not a medical professional, but lack of facial muscle
control is usually an indicator of stroke. If he had one,
I doubt he coaches the team the rest of the year.
(rehab might take a while)

This season is cursed. Seriously..

Kubiak has actually earned my respect this year. He completely
changed his offense (in only 2 games) to take advantage
of Keenum's skills.

That is not the action of a "stubborn" or "arrogant" man --
which is what I've been hearing from sports radio and began
to believe myself..

TJ

Yup, and so much for his terrible playcalling, too! He's not around in the second half, and .....

I hope to God he didn't have a stroke. That would be horrible.

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 08:45 AM
I could buy into the explanation of dehydration or maybe even a panic attack, but if the sideline reporters comments were accurate about Kubiak being in pain, I've got to think we are talking about some issues with the ole ticker here.
Don't have to have a heart attack with chest pains, but the pains often relate to a heart condition of some kind. Where's Doc when we need him ?

Pollardized
11-04-2013, 08:54 AM
Just saw the closeup footage of Kubiak on the stretcher.
He was responsive but his eyes were completely closed.

I'm not a medical professional, but lack of facial muscle
control is usually an indicator of stroke. If he had one,
I doubt he coaches the team the rest of the year.
(rehab might take a while)

This season is cursed. Seriously..

Kubiak has actually earned my respect this year. He completely
changed his offense (in only 2 games) to take advantage
of Keenum's skills.

That is not the action of a "stubborn" or "arrogant" man --
which is what I've been hearing from sports radio and began
to believe myself..

TJ

I have always respected him as a man, as a Christian, and as a human being. The problem with changing the offense now to fit Keenum is the lack of other players to compliment the new offensive scheme. We need big linemen who can block and give Case time to move around and find open receivers, and time for receivers to get open ala AJ on his second TD last night. We need depth on defense, because a quick scoring offense that goes vertical will mean a defense that may spend more time on the field. They need quality players who can rotate in and be an impact no matter who is on the field. They need special teams specialists who can be counted on to perform every week.


Sure. If say the head coaching job was offered to Kyle Shanahan from the Redskins. Somebody who's already familiar with the type of offensive schemes we already run and who can add his own wrinkles to the plate. The kid is a brilliant young mind and he probably isn't leaving his father's team unless he's given a head coaching job.

If Kubiak would feel less stress, maybe he has to do it for his health, and be okay with being demoted to the offensive coordinator job. It would basically be a role reversal of what we once had when Kyle Shanahan was here.

The offensive schemes we already run is what is wrong with this team now. The old Bronco offense of 20 years ago is just not the way of the NFL today. The zone blocking scheme that relies on smaller offensive linemen seems to struggle against the faster, bigger defensive front sevens of today. The game of football has evolved, rules have been changed to make it a passing league. Out of 32 NFL teams, how many can you say are a ground team, where running the ball to establish the pass is the norm? Watching other teams I see the opposite - the passing game opens up the run, and running backs are plugged in at will to fill the whole when another one goes down.

We don't need a head coach to come in and be Gary's boss and continue to run the same old tired offense. We need a head coach who will surround himself with good people and let them do their jobs. The head coach does not have to be the offensive or defense mind of the team. He should hire 3 really good people and let them run a specific part of the team - an offensive coordinator, a defensive coordinator, and a special teams coach. He should not be so involved with one piece that he leaves the other 2 pieces to chance. He should hold these 3 coaches accountable, they should be expected to deliver a consistent product on the field, making in game adjustments as needed. The head coach should be the manager of the game, deciding when to challenge, when to go for it on 4th down, when to fake a kick, and when a man needs to pulled aside for an ass chewing for boneheaded play he needs to be there to pull him aside and lay the smack down. The head coach needs to be thinking ahead to the adjustments the team must make during the game, talking to his 3 coaches continuously on the sidelines, pointing out the mistakes being made and formulating a plan to change it. And the head coach must be a motivator, he must get the team ready to play, and keep them playing throughout the game. He must have the balls to challenge those on the team who are not performing where they should, and be willing to handle accordingly those who continue to let his teammates down.

Gary Kubiak may realize with this health scare that he can't be the head coach the way he has always tried to be. He may learn that he needs to hire good people and let them do their jobs, thus relieving the stress on himself. Time will tell.

BullNation4Life
11-04-2013, 09:04 AM
Maybe it was Keenum's fake spike that caused Kubes to blow a gasket. How dare this young whipper snapper call a play at the line on his own...and succeed...

AJA, I wonder if it was exhaustion that has finally caught up with Kubes? I never heard where his pain was but from one shot on the sideline, he was rubbing his head and face.

Back in college, I suffered from exhaustion, from multiple all nighters working on projects, that it felt like someone hit me in the head with a hammer and I couldn't open my eyes...

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 09:13 AM
>changing the offense now to fit Keenum is the lack of other players to
>compliment the new offensive scheme. We need big linemen who can block
>and give Case time to move around and find open receivers,

Technically, UH ran the offense they did with Keenum because they
_could not_ recruit big linemen. (conference disadvantage, competing
against UT, A&M, etc..)

The UH variation of air raid was to get the ball out quickly before
pressure had time to reach the QB, and the hurry-up gassed the pass
rushers slowing them down as the game went on.

Oddly enough, the current UH coach is now using some zone blocking
concepts (probably lifted from the Texans..) to assist the running
game this year -- as they are relying on a first year QB as well..

>We need depth on defense, because a quick scoring offense that goes
>vertical will mean a defense that may spend more time on the field. They
>need quality players who can rotate in and be an impact no matter who is
>on the field.

The year UH went 13-1 (possibly their best ever) with Keenum, the defensive
coordinator was Brian Stewart -- A Wade Phillips disciple who coached
the exact same defense at UH as the Dallas Cowboys used with Sammy Brown
playing the roll of Demarcus Ware.

>They need special teams specialists who can be counted on to perform
>every week.

I agree with many of your points. I just don't necessarily think we have
to completely change our roster for Keenum and the current offense to
succeed here..

TJ

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 10:21 AM
Just saw the closeup footage of Kubiak on the stretcher.
He was responsive but his eyes were completely closed.

I'm not a medical professional, but lack of facial muscle
control is usually an indicator of stroke. If he had one,
I doubt he coaches the team the rest of the year.
(rehab might take a while)

This season is cursed. Seriously..

Kubiak has actually earned my respect this year. He completely
changed his offense (in only 2 games) to take advantage
of Keenum's skills.

Are you kidding me? He never even pulled Schaub. Schaub was forced to go out due to injury. His stubborness is what put the team in the hole and even had Yates out there for a wasted game against the Rams where the team gave up on him. His stubbornness is why Keenum was 3rd string instead of first string in the first place. Keenum only got in there by accident. Lol! A guy having a collapse doesn't change history and what has taken place this season or last season.

Texian
11-04-2013, 10:25 AM
Just heard something about "stroke like" symptoms on the radio.
TJ

Just saw the closeup footage of Kubiak on the stretcher.
He was responsive but his eyes were completely closed.

I'm not a medical professional, but lack of facial muscle
control is usually an indicator of stroke. If he had one,
I doubt he coaches the team the rest of the year.
(rehab might take a while)


There is video of Coach Kubiak's hands going to the sides of his head before going to his knees. Followed by reports of him being in extreme pain. It is also being reported he left Reliant with an excruciating headache. Early prognosis could be a stroke or brain aneurism.

BullNation4Life
11-04-2013, 10:29 AM
There is video of Coach Kubiak's hands going to the sides of his head before going to his knees. Followed by reports of him being in extreme pain. It is also being reported he left Reliant with an excruciating headache. Early prognosis could be a stroke or brain aneurism.

I wonder if he has a history of Migraines, I have heard of migraines being that intense to the point you cannot open your eyes...

PHILLYTEXANFAN
11-04-2013, 10:31 AM
I think Case's play sent Gary's brain into overload from excitement.
Quick side note, anybody else see Schaub wearing his helmet all game, just hoping he goes in

Runner
11-04-2013, 10:38 AM
Are you kidding me? He never even pulled Schaub. Schaub was forced to go out due to injury. His stubborness is what put the team in the hole and even had Yates out there for a wasted game against the Rams where the team gave up on him. His stubbornness is why Keenum was 3rd string instead of first string in the first place. Keenum only got in there by accident. Lol! A guy having a collapse doesn't change history and what has taken place this season or last season.

I quoted and replied to this on the all encompassing fire Kubiak thread. It's a good point, but I thought this discussion was better there so the health topic didn't get derailed.

Runner
11-04-2013, 10:40 AM
I think Case's play sent Gary's brain into overload from excitement.
Quick side note, anybody else see Schaub wearing his helmet all game, just hoping he goes in

He was putting it on when they were offense. I suspect it was so he could listen in on the radio.

cstyle42
11-04-2013, 11:00 AM
Being 2-6, I hope some of the late arrivals, band wagoners, go cheer for some other team...

See this is the BS I'm talking about most posters are not bandwagon people the texans as a franchise hasn't been even to the afc championship game and a Houston football team has not been to a super bowl so if your taking time out your day to post and complain or whatever I know deep down inside the desire is you want this team to win and your tired of the lame excuses and being taking around and around in a circus of consistent BS that continues to cause this team to come up short. Look how long it took to get rid of Carr look how much shat had to happen for Schaub to get benched? Then they have the nerve to be saying superbowl is the goal out of their mouths? Blasphemy the goal appears to be to keep people in the seats at reliant and for everyone to keep their jobs. Winning comes after all that... they have wasted Andre's career and I don't blame Foster for not letting this BS system of football mess up his... because it's straight BS. Kubiak still needs to be fired. I want him to be healthy but due to not having the balls to make bold enough moves when needed as a head coach is his biggest flaw take the conservative way of coaching back to the 90's where it belongs.

Swearinger
11-04-2013, 11:04 AM
Best wishes for Kubes and his family. That's got to be scary stuff.

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 11:12 AM
We kept running Schaub out there despite his horrible play until people are burning his jersey in the parking lot and may or may not have threatened him at his home (two examples of poor fan behavior that I don't condone).

We kept Kubiak well past the time your typical coach would be allowed to stick around without better results until he gets to the point that he is under so much pressure that he collapses on the sideline. After a bye week no less.

A organization that is profficient at identifying points of failure and promptly making corrections would not allow things to get to this point.

What's next? We keep running Bullock out there until Watt grabs the first down marker and impales him through the chest after another missed field goal? Resulting in one dead and Watt being in jail for murder during his prime football years? I don't mean to be flippant but we're through the looking glass at this point and I wouldn't be surprised by aliens landing on the field before our next game. I've never seen anything even remotely like this in 30+ years of watching football.

Things should NEVER have gotten to this point. If Kubiak was let go after 2010 he'd probably be happy and healthy as a OC somewhere. And maybe Schaub is getting a fresh start somewhere or happily retired after his foot injury in this alternate time line.

ZERO accountability is the root of all our problems. And I hate seeing the prime of some of our great players being wasted by this regime. Having said that it's one thing when players who know the risks are putting their knees and heads on the line every Sunday...they know the risks. But when coaches are passing out on the sideline something has to give.

Vinny
11-04-2013, 11:15 AM
We kept running Schaub out there despite his horrible play until people are burning his jersey in the parking lot and may or may not have threatened him at his home (two examples of poor fan behavior that I don't condone).

We kept Kubiak well past the time your typical coach would be allowed to stick around without better results until he gets to the point that he is under so much pressure that he collapses on the sideline. After a bye week no less.

A organization that is profficient at identifying points of failure and promptly making corrections would not allow things to get to this point.

What's next? We keep running Bullock out there until Watt grabs the first down marker and impales him through the chest after another missed field goal? Resulting in one dead and Watt being in jail for murder during his prime football years? I don't mean to be flippant but we're through the looking glass at this point and I wouldn't be surprised by aliens landing on the field before our next game. I've never seen anything even remotely like this in 30+ years of watching football.

Things should NEVER have gotten to this point. If Kubiak was let go after 2010 he'd probably be happy and healthy as a OC somewhere. And maybe Schaub is getting a fresh start somewhere or happily retired after his foot injury in this alternate time line.

ZERO accountability is the root of all our problems. And I hate seeing the prime of some of our great players being wasted by this regime. Having said that it's one thing when players who know the risks are putting their knees and heads on the line every Sunday...they know the risks. But when coaches are passing out on the sideline something has to give.

I have an idea...let's complain about Kubiak in some other thread. Let's make a better effort to stay on topic. It makes for a better forum you know.

NCTexan
11-04-2013, 11:18 AM
I wonder if he has a history of Migraines, I have heard of migraines being that intense to the point you cannot open your eyes...

I get migraines, luckily less now than I used to. I was hospitalized for them for 4 days a few years ago.

It's possible that this is/was a migraine, the only thing that leads me to not think it is one is the sudden nature with which it came on. Mine never just suddenly hit me, there was always a build up or I would wake up with it. Never be walking and BAM, incapacitating migraine.

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 11:22 AM
ESPN (Adam S.) is reporting that he was treated with medication that is used to treat strokes. They were clear that there is no evidence that he HAD a stroke. The medication given was basically a blood thinner and standard protocol for his symptoms.

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 11:25 AM
I really hate to say it but I think it's best for all parties and especially Kubes' life that we let him go now. And I think Wade needs more time to grieve as well so we need to let him go. Also, I think Marciano had a lobotomy or something so we might need to part ways with him. :evil:

toronto
11-04-2013, 11:26 AM
I get migraines, luckily less now than I used to. I was hospitalized for them for 4 days a few years ago.

It's possible that this is/was a migraine, the only thing that leads me to not think it is one is the sudden nature with which it came on. Mine never just suddenly hit me, there was always a build up or I would wake up with it. Never be walking and BAM, incapacitating migraine.

I used to get crazy bad headaches, and thought they were pure migraines. Turned out they were massive muscle tension, and a direct result of severe stress. I have done oste-accupuncture for years now.

Scary to see that and hope the man's ok. I could see the team sag, they obviously were worried about their coach, and that to me made sense. Who the hell wants to play football when that happens?

AMartin56
11-04-2013, 11:30 AM
I really hate to say it but I think it's best for all parties and especially Kubes' life that we let him go now. And I think Wade needs more time to grieve as well so we need to let him go. Also, I think Marciano had a lobotomy or something so we might need to part ways with him. :evil:

Even though as a person who hasn't supported Kubiak for years it's a bit self serving to say this I agree with you. If a stroke is even being considered as the diagnosis you HAVE to make Wade the interim coach at this point. Football is enough of a blood sport as it is without letting a coach going through health problems back out on the sideline under these circumstances.

It's just sad that it had to come to this. I wanted rid of Kubiak and Schaub as much as the next guy but this stuff is ridiculous.

Vinny
11-04-2013, 11:32 AM
reiterating amartin but I just retweeted this. Don't shoot the messengerJerome Solomon ‏@JeromeSolomon 6m
RT @therobertsboys per NFL medical sources. Gary KUBIAK given IV Protein that breaks up clots. Given to those with strokes.

drs23
11-04-2013, 11:33 AM
I think Case's play sent Gary's brain into overload from excitement.
Quick side note, anybody else see Schaub wearing his helmet all game, just hoping he goes in

Yes. My non-football-watching-wife even asked about that. Matt had to know his career here was ending before his very eyes. He's toast.

Texian
11-04-2013, 11:35 AM
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 14m

Gary Kubiak was given Tissue plasminogen activator (tPA), a protein that breaks down blood clots in people who suffer strokes, per sources.

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli now

#Texans head coach Gary Kubiak will remain with medical personnel for at least the next 24 hours, the team announced.

Exascor
11-04-2013, 12:02 PM
Get well soon Kubes.

Dread-Head
11-04-2013, 12:37 PM
Kubiak was in my Rosary this morning. Get well soon coach.

RagingBull
11-04-2013, 12:40 PM
Wow, they don't give TPA to just anyone unless they are pretty convinced that a stroke is occurring.

I have seen some pretty terrible complications from TPA administration causing intra-cranial hemorrhage that can be quite devastating or even fatal.

I certainly hope that Gary is going to be OK.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 12:46 PM
>I have seen some pretty terrible complications from TPA administration causing intra-cranial hemorrhage that can be quite devastating or even fatal.


The way they mentioned his family was "around him" at the hospital
gives me cause too.

I hope Gary walks out of the hospital on his own two feet.

The coach of our football team is secondary to the health and safety
of a guy that most people say is a really good human being.

TJ

HOU-TEX
11-04-2013, 12:49 PM
Wishing the best for Coach and his family.

CloakNNNdagger
11-04-2013, 01:31 PM
I could buy into the explanation of dehydration or maybe even a panic attack, but if the sideline reporters comments were accurate about Kubiak being in pain, I've got to think we are talking about some issues with the ole ticker here.
Don't have to have a heart attack with chest pains, but the pains often relate to a heart condition of some kind. Where's Doc when we need him ?

So many possibilities. If the reports of no heart attack is indeed accurate, a sudden collapse like this could be a result of an arrhythmia such as atrial fibrillation.

Clots can occur in the heart secondary to the atrial fibrillation (AF).......and can then break loose to obstruct brain circulation (stroke). AF is associated with more severe ischemic strokes and "longer" transient ischemic attacks (TIAs) than emboli from carotid disease, presumably due to embolization of larger particles with AF. As a result, patients with AF who suffer an ischemic stroke appear to have a worse outcome (more disability, greater mortality) than those who have an ischemic stroke in the absence of AF, even after adjustment for the advanced age of patients with AF-related stroke.

Double Barrel
11-04-2013, 01:44 PM
Get well soon, Coach Kubiak!

Damn, this season just goes from bad to worse. :(

Trail.Blazr
11-04-2013, 02:01 PM
I remember the commentators talk about spending the bye week basically in OT cramming for Case, then seeing a sideline shot of Kubes.. He looked TERRIBLE.

I'm going to believe when they say NO HEart Attack, for it to be true as they know it. That wouldn't rule out a stroke I suppose? But I would be more inclined to believe he's overworked, stressed, exhausted, the whole 9 yards.

He didn't look right at all prior to the half time, so what ever it was, likely didn't just come over him while walking to the locker room, but certainly escalated to what was reported.

Seems odd they are being so seemingly HUSH about it.

Brisco_County
11-04-2013, 02:06 PM
So many possibilities. If the reports of no heart attack is indeed accurate, a sudden collapse like this could be a result of an arrhythmia such as atrial fibrillation.

Clots can occur in the heart secondary to the atrial fibrillation (AF).......and can then break loose to obstruct brain circulation (stroke). AF is associated with more severe ischemic strokes and "longer" transient ischemic attacks (TIAs) than emboli from carotid disease, presumably due to embolization of larger particles with AF. As a result, patients with AF who suffer an ischemic stroke appear to have a worse outcome (more disability, greater mortality) than those who have an ischemic stroke in the absence of AF, even after adjustment for the advanced age of patients with AF-related stroke.

Considering the symptoms, would the implementation of an anticoagulent suggest one possibility over others?

Honoring Earl 34
11-04-2013, 02:11 PM
I had really good seats last night and we saw him go down . My #2 son was getting mad because all the medical folks i guess had a potty break . While he was down the camera men started hovering and I'm not sure who this guy was but he was in a suit and started running them off . There was a big dude in a white shirt who was trying to get close , that guy in a suit almost shoved him out of there . It was one of those moments that you thought they were going to pull out the AED .

I think Coach Kubiak's greatest strength is becoming his greatest weakness . You see him on TV or listen to him on the radio and this is wearing on him . I think he is one who is more worried about Schaub and the coaches more than he's worried about himself . Take care of yourself coach and enjoy the grandkids to come .

HOU-TEX
11-04-2013, 02:17 PM
Get well soon, Coach Kubiak!

Damn, this season just goes from bad to worse. :(

Ain't that the truth?! Strangest football season I've ever witnessed.

CloakNNNdagger
11-04-2013, 02:33 PM
Considering the symptoms, would the implementation of an anticoagulent suggest one possibility over others?

Sorry, but without seeing the MRI and/or more clinical information, that's all I can say. The anticoagulant can be used to dissolve established blocking clots and, in the case of AF, can help prevent more clots originating in the heart from being formed.

Brisco_County
11-04-2013, 02:40 PM
Sorry, but without seeing the MRI and/or more clinical information, that's all I can say. The anticoagulant can be used to dissolve established blocking clots and, in the case of AF, can help prevent more clots originating in the heart from being formed.

Considering the pain he was in, I can't help but think that a chunk of clot was dislodged. My mind goes to worst case scenarios.

RagingBull
11-04-2013, 03:22 PM
So many possibilities. If the reports of no heart attack is indeed accurate, a sudden collapse like this could be a result of an arrhythmia such as atrial fibrillation.

Clots can occur in the heart secondary to the atrial fibrillation (AF).......and can then break loose to obstruct brain circulation (stroke). AF is associated with more severe ischemic strokes and "longer" transient ischemic attacks (TIAs) than emboli from carotid disease, presumably due to embolization of larger particles with AF. As a result, patients with AF who suffer an ischemic stroke appear to have a worse outcome (more disability, greater mortality) than those who have an ischemic stroke in the absence of AF, even after adjustment for the advanced age of patients with AF-related stroke.

Atrial fibrillation very rarely causes syncope (passing out), and typically an a-fib related CVA occurs shortly after restoration of sinus rhythm rather than upon converting into atrial fibrillation.

I think that if they did indeed give TPA, he had to have had a significantly high NIH stroke scale and an ischemic stroke would be the most likely scenario.

If it were a STEMI (heart attack), he would have been taken to the cath lab directly.

Also, no one uses TPA for MI anymore, it is almost always TNK, and it would be very unusual in Houston for someone to be treated with thrombolytics. The only time I know of anyone being treated for MI with lytics (TPA or TNK) in recent times in Houston was during tropical storm Allison when all the cath labs were down due to power outage.

I have seen plenty of people having an acute stroke though and he didn't really look like that either.

And usually the strokes that cause a great deal of pain (which it looked like he was in) are hemorrhagic and he would not have received TPA for that.

The common cardiovascular causes of syncope (passing out) are brady arrhythmias (slow heart rate), ventricular tachy arrhythmias (fast heart rates), or a vasovagal episodes (all of the blood vessels dilating and the blood rushing down to your legs. Very rarely will a supraventricular tachyarrhythmia (like a-fib, a-flutter, AVNRT, atrial tach, etc) cause anything more than palpitations and feeling poorly.

V Tach and complete heart block can commonly be caused by a heart attack.

That being said, it didn't really look like he passed out all the way from what they showed on TV.

The problem with diagnosing a stroke is that it doesn't show up on a CT scan for 3-4 days usually. An MRI with diffusion/perfusion imaging can usually show an acute stroke, and it sounds like he was going to have one of those today. The decision of whether or not to give TPA usually comes down to clinical judgement of the ER doc and/or stroke team doc (usually a neurologist) because you only have 180 minutes from symptom onset to treat it.

TexansSeminole
11-04-2013, 03:23 PM
I hope everything is ok with Kubiak. It's scary to see something like this happen.

Thorn
11-04-2013, 04:04 PM
I wish nothing but the best for Kubiak and his family on this. I hope he comes out of this in good health.

ziggy29
11-04-2013, 04:04 PM
First John Fox and now Kubes. Wow, was this ever a weekend of health scares for NFL coaches. It certainly is a reminder of priorities and that, well, in the end it *is* "only football".

TheMatrix31
11-04-2013, 05:06 PM
There are some truly awful people in this thread.


Get well soon, Coach.

houstonhurricane
11-04-2013, 05:13 PM
Best wishes to Coach Kubes and his family. Hoping for a speedy recovery.
Have to admit that after he went down on the field, I had a hard time getting back into the game...can only imagine how the team felt. Wade looked like death himself in the post-game presser.

Goatcheese
11-04-2013, 05:36 PM
Best wishes to Kubiak and his family. Hopefully his hospital stay is just a precaution and he is back with the team soon.

houstonhurricane
11-04-2013, 05:45 PM
Chronicle also reported it was not a stroke either but rather stroke-like symptoms...whatever that means.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 06:00 PM
Praying for a great outcome for Gary and family.

Porky
11-04-2013, 06:03 PM
My thoughts and prayers are with Coach Kubiak and his family. Wishing him a speedy recovery and full health.

This is a game at the end of the day. Kubes needs to get healthy, and find the priorities in his life that make him happy. If that is football so be it, but there MUST be some work/life balance. I know these guys put in crazy hours. The body can only take so much. Our bodies were designed for a cycle of activity and rest, and when you take out the rest, and add in an incredible dose of stress, that's a recipe for disaster.

Is it time that the NFL care as much about the coaches as it pretends to care about the players?

There are a million different rules in place regarding player safety - and limits on work hours. Interestingly, there are no such rules in place regarding coaches that I am aware of. Coaches burning out quite literally are common.

It's high time we limit coaches hours etc.. If everyone is restricted, it's a level playing field.

VTexan
11-04-2013, 06:04 PM
Atrial fibrillation very rarely causes syncope (passing out), and typically an a-fib related CVA occurs shortly after restoration of sinus rhythm rather than upon converting into atrial fibrillation.

I think that if they did indeed give TPA, he had to have had a significantly high NIH stroke scale and an ischemic stroke would be the most likely scenario.

If it were a STEMI (heart attack), he would have been taken to the cath lab directly.

Also, no one uses TPA for MI anymore, it is almost always TNK, and it would be very unusual in Houston for someone to be treated with thrombolytics. The only time I know of anyone being treated for MI with lytics (TPA or TNK) in recent times in Houston was during tropical storm Allison when all the cath labs were down due to power outage.

I have seen plenty of people having an acute stroke though and he didn't really look like that either.

And usually the strokes that cause a great deal of pain (which it looked like he was in) are hemorrhagic and he would not have received TPA for that.

The common cardiovascular causes of syncope (passing out) are brady arrhythmias (slow heart rate), ventricular tachy arrhythmias (fast heart rates), or a vasovagal episodes (all of the blood vessels dilating and the blood rushing down to your legs. Very rarely will a supraventricular tachyarrhythmia (like a-fib, a-flutter, AVNRT, atrial tach, etc) cause anything more than palpitations and feeling poorly.

V Tach and complete heart block can commonly be caused by a heart attack.

That being said, it didn't really look like he passed out all the way from what they showed on TV.

The problem with diagnosing a stroke is that it doesn't show up on a CT scan for 3-4 days usually. An MRI with diffusion/perfusion imaging can usually show an acute stroke, and it sounds like he was going to have one of those today. The decision of whether or not to give TPA usually comes down to clinical judgement of the ER doc and/or stroke team doc (usually a neurologist) because you only have 180 minutes from symptom onset to treat it.

yes. i know some of those words.

RagingBull
11-04-2013, 06:17 PM
yes. i know some of those words.

Sorry man, I was kind of targeting Dr. Jean with that to get his opinion. The gist of it is that none of it really adds up medically, but the most likely thing that I can come up with is that he probably had a stroke based upon the LITTLE we know.

TheMatrix31
11-04-2013, 06:19 PM
As just reported by @BobAllenKHOU, source w/Texans says Kubiak had "stroke-like" symptoms includ. numbness on left side & slurred speech

https://twitter.com/DTGoteraKHOU/status/397499146677919744

Vance87
11-04-2013, 06:36 PM
https://twitter.com/DTGoteraKHOU/status/397499146677919744

Ugh :(

TexansBull
11-04-2013, 06:41 PM
Sad. Really sad.

What concerns me too is how the Texans' org is so secretive with illnesses and revealing medical details. It concerns me because it could be worse than what is being reported and we won't find out for a few more days.

Here's to a fast and speedy full recovery.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

ChampionTexan
11-04-2013, 06:52 PM
Sad. Really sad.

What concerns me too is how the Texans' org is so secretive with illnesses and revealing medical details. It concerns me because it could be worse than what is being reported and we won't find out for a few more days.

Here's to a fast and speedy full recovery.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

The family has requested, and has a right to, privacy in this matter. What part of that concerns you?

PapaL
11-04-2013, 06:52 PM
Sad. Really sad.

What concerns me too is how the Texans' org is so secretive with illnesses and revealing medical details. It concerns me because it could be worse than what is being reported and we won't find out for a few more days.

Here's to a fast and speedy full recovery.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

I take the opposite stance. This is his health and there should be privacy. I'm sure the organization is sparing no expense to make sure he gets the best care possible. Football and the organization comes a distant second.

TheMatrix31
11-04-2013, 06:57 PM
There'll be plenty of health information leaks in coming years and decades. I'm okay with health privacy while we can still get it.

Thorn
11-04-2013, 06:59 PM
There'll be plenty of health information leaks in coming years and decades. I'm okay with health privacy while we can still get it.

Couldn't agree more with this.

TexansBull
11-04-2013, 07:05 PM
The family has requested, and has a right to, privacy in this matter. What part of that concerns you?

I take the opposite stance. This is his health and there should be privacy. I'm sure the organization is sparing no expense to make sure he gets the best care possible. Football and the organization comes a distant second.

I never said we should know all his details. I said that this org so secretive with medical details that it could be a lot worse than we know. That is in my original post and I never said we need to know all the details now.

CloakNNNdagger
11-04-2013, 07:23 PM
Atrial fibrillation very rarely causes syncope (passing out), and typically an a-fib related CVA occurs shortly after restoration of sinus rhythm rather than upon converting into atrial fibrillation.

I think that if they did indeed give TPA, he had to have had a significantly high NIH stroke scale and an ischemic stroke would be the most likely scenario.

If it were a STEMI (heart attack), he would have been taken to the cath lab directly.

Also, no one uses TPA for MI anymore, it is almost always TNK, and it would be very unusual in Houston for someone to be treated with thrombolytics. The only time I know of anyone being treated for MI with lytics (TPA or TNK) in recent times in Houston was during tropical storm Allison when all the cath labs were down due to power outage.

I have seen plenty of people having an acute stroke though and he didn't really look like that either.

And usually the strokes that cause a great deal of pain (which it looked like he was in) are hemorrhagic and he would not have received TPA for that.

The common cardiovascular causes of syncope (passing out) are brady arrhythmias (slow heart rate), ventricular tachy arrhythmias (fast heart rates), or a vasovagal episodes (all of the blood vessels dilating and the blood rushing down to your legs. Very rarely will a supraventricular tachyarrhythmia (like a-fib, a-flutter, AVNRT, atrial tach, etc) cause anything more than palpitations and feeling poorly.

V Tach and complete heart block can commonly be caused by a heart attack.

That being said, it didn't really look like he passed out all the way from what they showed on TV.

The problem with diagnosing a stroke is that it doesn't show up on a CT scan for 3-4 days usually. An MRI with diffusion/perfusion imaging can usually show an acute stroke, and it sounds like he was going to have one of those today. The decision of whether or not to give TPA usually comes down to clinical judgement of the ER doc and/or stroke team doc (usually a neurologist) because you only have 180 minutes from symptom onset to treat it.


As I implied, a heart attack seemed to have been ruled out, and I agree that the use of TPA would have been a very curious treatment for that condition anyway. However, paroxysmal (intermittent) atrial fibrillation can lead to syncope and lead to cardiac thrombo-emboli.........we have no idea if he had the AF condition for a while (some can be quite asymptomatic until an "event" leads to its diagnosis). Furthermore, AF through neural mechanisms can convert to tachycardia or bradycardia of vasovagal responses. Not only that, but an acute ischemic stroke can certainly be associated with intense cephalic (head) pain. As far as the MRI, I've seen quite a few that showed confirmatory changes consistent by 6 hours post event (although the maximal changes are usually evident 48 hours to 96 hours post event).

DX-TEX
11-04-2013, 07:34 PM
As I implied, a heart attack seemed to have been ruled out, and I agree that the use of TPA would have been a very curious treatment for that condition anyway. However, paroxysmal (intermittent) atrial fibrillation can lead to syncope and lead to cardiac thrombo-emboli.........we have no idea if he had the AF condition for a while (some can be quite asymptomatic until an "event" leads to its diagnosis). Furthermore, AF through neural mechanisms can convert to tachycardia or bradycardia of vasovagal responses. Not only that, but an acute ischemic stroke can certainly be associated with intense cephalic (head) pain. As far as the MRI, I've seen quite a few that showed confirmatory changes consistent by 6 hours post event (although the maximal changes are usually evident 48 hours to 96 hours post event).

English Doc. English

Brisco_County
11-04-2013, 07:43 PM
Stroke like symptoms and an anticoagulent means stroke.

TheMatrix31
11-04-2013, 07:51 PM
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
#Texans coach Gary Kubiak has suffered what is called a TIA, per source. —a transient ischemic attack. Referred to as a mini-stroke.

G27RR
11-04-2013, 07:57 PM
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
#Texans coach Gary Kubiak has suffered what is called a TIA, per source. —a transient ischemic attack. Referred to as a mini-stroke.

That's a shame. Best wishes to coach and his family.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000276824/article/gary-kubiak-suffered-ministroke-during-houston-texans-game

Marcus
11-04-2013, 08:06 PM
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
#Texans coach Gary Kubiak has suffered what is called a TIA, per source. —a transient ischemic attack. Referred to as a mini-stroke.

Well, if you're going to have a stroke, that's the best one to have. A very good chance of no permanent brain injury. This is known in some circles as a warning stroke.

With a little luck, he should be able to make a full recovery, given that they are able to find the problem that caused it.

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 08:07 PM
nvm...... not the place for it, sorry.

Runner
11-04-2013, 08:11 PM
...flashes of average play...

That turn of phrase is really, really funny.

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 09:19 PM
As I implied, a heart attack seemed to have been ruled out, and I agree that the use of TPA would have been a very curious treatment for that condition anyway. However, paroxysmal (intermittent) atrial fibrillation can lead to syncope and lead to cardiac thrombo-emboli.........we have no idea if he had the AF condition for a while (some can be quite asymptomatic until an "event" leads to its diagnosis). Furthermore, AF through neural mechanisms can convert to tachycardia or bradycardia of vasovagal responses. Not only that, but an acute ischemic stroke can certainly be associated with intense cephalic (head) pain. As far as the MRI, I've seen quite a few that showed confirmatory changes consistent by 6 hours post event (although the maximal changes are usually evident 48 hours to 96 hours post event).

That's exactly what I came here to post.

Brisco_County
11-04-2013, 09:26 PM
This sucks. Kubiak is a good man.

houstonhurricane
11-04-2013, 09:27 PM
So,docs is this good or bad news? Is he out of the woods since they caught it before he had a full stroke? Will he be able to return to the team soon?

Blake
11-04-2013, 09:34 PM
Kubiak is done for the season. I expect Wade to be named interim hc very soon.

JCTexan
11-04-2013, 09:35 PM
So,docs is this good or bad news? Is he out of the woods since they caught it before he had a full stroke? Will he be able to return to the team soon?

After googling it, which I don't know how accurate this information is; about 1 in 3 people who have a transient ischemic attack eventually have a stroke, with about half occurring within a year after the attack. A transient ischemic attack can serve as both a warning and an opportunity — a warning of an impending stroke and an opportunity to take steps to prevent it.

houstonhurricane
11-04-2013, 09:37 PM
After googling it, which I don't know how accurate this information is; about 1 in 3 people who have a transient ischemic attack eventually have a stroke, with about half occurring within a year after the attack. A transient ischemic attack can serve as both a warning and an opportunity — a warning of an impending stroke and an opportunity to take steps to prevent it.

Thanks - I had Googled that as well. Just wasn't sure whether catching it like they did and treating it as quickly as they did greatly reduced that 1 in 3 number...?

Brisco_County
11-04-2013, 09:55 PM
“TIA is a warning stroke and gives a patient time to act and keep a permanent stroke from occurring,” Dr. Emil Matarese of St. Mary’s Medical Center in Langhorne, Pa. told the ASA’s website. “By recognizing TIA symptoms and getting to the hospital, the patient can get help in identifying why the TIA occurred and get treatment — either through medication or surgery — that can prevent a stroke from occurring.”

Fortunately, Kubiak received immediate attention from the stadium’s medical staff and was transported to the hospital quickly.

Link (http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/04/gary-kubiak-texans-mini-stroke/).

He was in a very favorable situation for medical attention. It could all be for the best if this occurrence prevents the big one.

steelbtexan
11-04-2013, 10:01 PM
This sucks. Kubiak is a good man.

^^^^
This

Godspeed Gary, You've done your best for this org. Thank you

Now it's time to take care of yourself. You're surrounded by people who love and admire you as a person. Get well soon.

Thoughts and Prayers.

legacy_gt
11-04-2013, 10:02 PM
having a mini stroke isn't good. it can be a precursor for the massive stroke that can kill you in the future. but there is treatment. best of health gary.

Brisco_County
11-04-2013, 10:36 PM
having a mini stroke isn't good. it can be a precursor for the massive stroke that can kill you in the future. but there is treatment. best of health gary.

I worked with a man who had a series of mini strokes. It permanently altered his personality and cognizance, while leaving his motor and speech skills intact. It was still very sad.

Texian
11-04-2013, 10:58 PM
This is just an FYI, nothing more.....Good Read & Informative

ATLANTA -- ESPN College GameDay host Lee Corso suffered a mild stroke May 16 and was hospitalized for eight days. On Saturday, less than four months after losing his ability to speak and partial use of his right arm and leg, Corso was back in front of the cameras alongside Chris Fowler and Kirk Herbstreit hosting college football's most popular pregame show.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/bill_trocchi/09/07/lee.corso.qa/index.html#ixzz2jjwfjekQ

CloakNNNdagger
11-04-2013, 11:07 PM
More recent numbers reveal that closer to 10% of patients having a TIA will have a stroke within 3 months.........with half occurring within the first 48 hours. The prognosis is very closely attached to identifying the exact source and identifying the risk factors leading to the source. Prompt control of the source of the problem such as controlling any possible arrhythmia (or maintaining blood thinning for avoidance of further clot formation if the arrhythmia can't be controlled), or performing a carotid endarterectomy (clean out of a plaque-lined carotid artery) will minimize the risk of future stroke. If the problem involves plaque formation (especially if accompanied by hypertension [high blood pressure]), it is typically reflection of what is going on elsewhere in the rest of the cardiovascular system, and future mortality is more commonly tied to a cardiac event rather than a stroke.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 11:08 PM
Gary will be spending some time with doctors being tested to determine the source/cause of the TIA and how to best treat it to avoid a second TIA or worse -- whether with medication or surgery.

This can run the gamut from being a "lucky" warning that's easily treatable to the beginning of more serious problems. It's wait & see.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 11:17 PM
Oops, didn't see Dr. CND in da house. I defer to his expertise, which is in no way related to Holiday Inn Express. :fostering:

More recent numbers reveal that closer to 10% of patients having a TIA will have a stroke within 3 months.........with half occurring within the first 48 hours. The prognosis is very closely attached to identifying the exact source and identifying the risk factors leading to the source. Prompt control of the source of the problem such as controlling any possible arrhythmia (or maintaining blood thinning for avoidance of further clot formation if the arrhythmia can't be controlled), or performing a carotid endarterectomy (clean out of a plaque-lined carotid artery) will minimize the risk of future stroke. If the problem involves plaque formation (especially if accompanied by hypertension [high blood pressure]), it is typically reflection of what is going on elsewhere in the rest of the cardiovascular system, and future mortality is more commonly tied to a cardiac event rather than a stroke.

If it's afib related, perhaps Methodist's recently announced grant will provide another solution -- Valderrabano is my brother's cardiologist:

Houston Methodist Receives Multi-Million Dollar Grant From National Institutes of Health to Study Another Way to Cure Atrial Fibrillation (http://www.newswise.com/articles/houston-methodist-receives-multi-million-dollar-grant-from-national-institutes-of-health-to-study-another-way-to-cure-atrial-fibrillation)

silvrhand
11-04-2013, 11:55 PM
Gary was very lucky to be where he was able to get treatment quickly. I wish him the best my father had a massive stroke and was never the same. I hope Gary and his family the best, time to focus on your health Gary.

RagingBull
11-05-2013, 01:02 AM
I think that it sounds like the TPA worked. The difference between a TIA and a stroke has to do with the duration of symptoms and whether or not it shows up on an MRI. If the TPA is able to completely dissolve the clot, then it does not cause permanent damage and thus does not show up as tissue injury on an MRI.

Certainly afib is a potential culprit, as is vascular disease, but most of the time it ends up being "occult", meaning no specific reason can be found.

He probably will get a CT arteriogram of his brain, an MRI, a carotid duplex, an echocardiogram, and probably a TEE and will probably be sent home on a cardiac event monitor.

Hopefully all will be ok. I was actually getting excited about the way he was running the offense with CK.

Vance87
11-05-2013, 03:04 AM
Hopefully all will be ok. I was actually getting excited about the way he was running the offense with CK.

Yes, finally stuff was clicking, all the more reason to believe this city has been cursed by the football gods.

speedfreek
11-05-2013, 06:10 AM
>Yes, finally stuff was clicking, all the more reason to believe this city has been cursed by the football gods.

This was the very first thing that ran through my mind at halftime..

TJ

Insideop
11-05-2013, 08:44 AM
Yes, finally stuff was clicking, all the more reason to believe this city has been cursed by the football gods.

Yes, it seems this team can't catch a break this season. Wonder if we'll ever get to see them win a SB. It just amazes me how a team with so much talent can have so much bad luck. Maybe we are cursed! Well, at least we aren't the only ones. The Falcons have to be feeling the same way.

TheIronDuke
11-05-2013, 09:20 AM
Any other team would rally around and win one for their coach. Raiders with Al Davis when they beat us with their 10 man offense, Chuck Pagano's Colts last year, Art Modell's Ravens. We crap ourselves and lose for them, drop one in KC in Bum's memory and then choke a huge first half lead for Kubes, the way Kubes would have wanted it.

TheIronDuke
11-05-2013, 09:29 AM
Edited

281
11-05-2013, 09:36 AM
Hey thanks, care to tell me what's so stupid about it? Do other teams not rally around these kinds of things all the time?

I'm not saying what you said was stupid, but the Kubiak incident happened smack dab in the middle of the game.

silvrhand
11-05-2013, 09:51 AM
Any other team would rally around and win one for their coach. Raiders with Al Davis when they beat us with their 10 man offense, Chuck Pagano's Colts last year, Art Modell's Ravens. We crap ourselves and lose for them, drop one in KC in Bum's memory and then choke a huge first half lead for Kubes, the way Kubes would have wanted it.

Ugh, I would say that's a bit different than your head coach dropping in the middle of a game, there are bigger things at stake then the game. Football teams are very close, and Kubiak tends to be a players coach. Him going down on the field was distracting and pretty chaotic at halftime, we didn't make good adjustments.

And our field goal kicker sucks balls..

HoustonFrog
11-05-2013, 09:53 AM
Oops, didn't see Dr. CND in da house. I defer to his expertise, which is in no way related to Holiday Inn Express. :fostering:



If it's afib related, perhaps Methodist's recently announced grant will provide another solution -- Valderrabano is my brother's cardiologist:

Houston Methodist Receives Multi-Million Dollar Grant From National Institutes of Health to Study Another Way to Cure Atrial Fibrillation (http://www.newswise.com/articles/houston-methodist-receives-multi-million-dollar-grant-from-national-institutes-of-health-to-study-another-way-to-cure-atrial-fibrillation)

Valderrabano was my doc too. Great guy and he knows what he is doing. Wish I had gone to him before my failed ablation. My regular cardiologist was Mohammed Attar and the electrophysiologist who screwed up my ablation was Jie Chen. Good guy but I'll leave it at that. After that I went to Valderrabano and he took care of me with Attar. Regret not going to him sooner for ablation vs. Chen.

TheIronDuke
11-05-2013, 09:56 AM
Ugh, I would say that's a bit different than your head coach dropping in the middle of a game, there are bigger things at stake then the game. Football teams are very close, and Kubiak tends to be a players coach. Him going down on the field was distracting and pretty chaotic at halftime, we didn't make good adjustments.

And our field goal kicker sucks balls..

True on the last part for sure and I appreciate the previous two posters who were able to respond in a mature manner. I just think the players would have had more of the "win one for Kubes" mentality. Maybe our offense did but our fat kicker and awful defense did not. I just see all these teams rally around their sick/dead coaches and owners and we don't. We rally around letterman jackets and 20/20/20 and Super Bowl or bust.

badboy
11-05-2013, 10:09 AM
It will be interesting to see how both Kubiak and McNair handle this going forward. Seems it would be difficult for Gary to "step away" from coaching as he has been at this so long. Hopefully, he will be alright but to put in those hours in that stress has to be "addicting". Will McNair allow him to continue coaching without 100% medical clearance? When Gary bent over I thought "stroke" and then "dang, he was coaching a great game."

silvrhand
11-05-2013, 10:26 AM
True on the last part for sure and I appreciate the previous two posters who were able to respond in a mature manner. I just think the players would have had more of the "win one for Kubes" mentality. Maybe our offense did but our fat kicker and awful defense did not. I just see all these teams rally around their sick/dead coaches and owners and we don't. We rally around letterman jackets and 20/20/20 and Super Bowl or bust.

You could tell in the second half that the game was kind odd, it felt odd in the stands. Heck even I was trying to figure out what happenned to Kubiak during the game, it definitely impacted the team, how could it not?

silvrhand
11-05-2013, 10:28 AM
It will be interesting to see how both Kubiak and McNair handle this going forward. Seems it would be difficult for Gary to "step away" from coaching as he has been at this so long. Hopefully, he will be alright but to put in those hours in that stress has to be "addicting". Will McNair allow him to continue coaching without 100% medical clearance? When Gary bent over I thought "stroke" and then "dang, he was coaching a great game."

Gary has coached his last game for the Texans, he seriously can't think about coming back to coaching. In today's world of the NFL why would you allow a coach with a mini stroke to return, how can you talk about player safety and then continue to let a coach coach after a mini stroke.

Why would you even risk coming back, you have all the money you could ever need, your family, and well your health is at risk. Stay home, get well, enjoy doing charities and back away from the stress/high risk job.

Honoring Earl 34
11-05-2013, 10:30 AM
True on the last part for sure and I appreciate the previous two posters who were able to respond in a mature manner. I just think the players would have had more of the "win one for Kubes" mentality. Maybe our offense did but our fat kicker and awful defense did not. I just see all these teams rally around their sick/dead coaches and owners and we don't. We rally around letterman jackets and 20/20/20 and Super Bowl or bust.

The Texans were the best team in the league the 1st half of the Seahawks and Colts games . They stunk the 2nd half of each game for whatever reason . I think Kubiak going down bothered them , it had to , but nobody went down vs Seattle .

The key in both was dumb mistakes and giving the other team a chance . Tate's fumble and the pick 6 hurt but so did Schaub's first pick vs Seatlle . Against the Colts you have 3 missed FGs , Reed putting his elbow upside a WRs head , hitting Luck late , and blowing a coverage .

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 10:32 AM
It will be interesting to see how both Kubiak and McNair handle this going forward. Seems it would be difficult for Gary to "step away" from coaching as he has been at this so long. Hopefully, he will be alright but to put in those hours in that stress has to be "addicting". Will McNair allow him to continue coaching without 100% medical clearance? When Gary bent over I thought "stroke" and then "dang, he was coaching a great game."

If the doctors give him clearance, I see him coming back to coaching. And no way will McNair fire him after this season, even if the results are 2-14. I could not envision a situation where McNair fires his golden boy after suffering a stroke during the middle of a game.

However, if coaching is directly contributing to Kubiak's condition, I would hope that he makes the 'right' decision for his family, not the franchise, players, or sport he loves. I would assume his family is priority based on what we know about Gary Kubiak. If this is a condition with a percentage chance, I do not think it's worth it, all things considered.

Nobody could, or would, blame him at all for walking away.

infantrycak
11-05-2013, 11:15 AM
If the doctors give him clearance, I see him coming back to coaching. And no way will McNair fire him after this season, even if the results are 2-14. I could not envision a situation where McNair fires his golden boy after suffering a stroke during the middle of a game.

Spot on. Barring a medical prognosis prohibiting him from coaching, firing Kubiak discussions are now moot. If able, he will be back.

CloakNNNdagger
11-05-2013, 11:45 AM
If the source of his TIA is entirely controllable and is indeed completely controlled, such as the most likely AF, by medication or ablation, do not be surprised to see him return within the next 2 weeks.

HOU-TEX
11-05-2013, 12:21 PM
Spot on. Barring a medical prognosis prohibiting him from coaching, firing Kubiak discussions are now moot. If able, he will be back.

My thought pre-mini-stroke was that Kubiak was going to be back. There were excuses set in place before Kubiak fell out. Schaub crappin the bed, injuries to the D..

HoustonFrog
11-05-2013, 12:38 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/275346/texans-gary-kubiak-cleared-to-leave-hospital


Texans coach Gary Kubiak has been cleared to leave the hospital and return home.
There are conflicting reports out there on whether Kubiak sustained a "mini-stroke" or not. Either way, it's a fantastic sign that he's already out of the hospital after collapsing during Sunday night's loss to the Colts. In fact, he's expected to miss just one week of work and then return to the team ahead of Week 11. Defensive coordinator Wade Phillips will guide the Texans as they prepare for the Cardinals this week.

Marcus
11-05-2013, 12:42 PM
If the source of his TIA is entirely controllable and is indeed completely controlled, such as the most likely AF, by medication or ablation, do not be surprised to see him return within the next 2 weeks.

I just hope, that with all the tests, they are able to pinpoint the source and treat it, to where he doesn't have to worry when the big one is going to hit.

thunderkyss
11-06-2013, 03:34 AM
Spot on. Barring a medical prognosis prohibiting him from coaching, firing Kubiak discussions are now moot. If able, he will be back.

Might be the perfect excuse for McNair to move Kubiak to a VP of football operations, allowing him to bring in a new head coach without firing the man. We all know Kubiak is much more than a head coach in this organization, & he's really done a fine job in all aspects of building this organization to what it is...... but, we should be able to find a better head coach.

GNTLEWOLF
11-06-2013, 11:20 AM
I don't think there was ever any real question about Kubiak's return as HC next year. That's just the way the Texans FO operates.
However, The discussion about Kubiak's fitness as a HC either before or after the collapse , and the one about his getting well and prognosis as a human being going forward are two different discussions.
Here's hoping for God Speed in your full recovery and good health in the future Coach Kubiak!

Texian
11-06-2013, 11:21 AM
Might be the perfect excuse for McNair to move Kubiak to a VP of football operations, allowing him to bring in a new head coach without firing the man. We all know Kubiak is much more than a head coach in this organization, & he's really done a fine job in all aspects of building this organization to what it is...... but, we should be able to find a better head coach.

The success of the Colts could likely be a part of the decision of whether or not the Texans should continue down the same road traveled the last 8 years. If Colts make it to AFC Championship game in addition to also having $40 million to spend in free agency in 2014 vs Texans picking in Top 10 in the 2014 NFL Draft with only $8 million available to spend under the salary cap in the 2014, this will not only dictate change but demand changes in the front office. Not only do the Texans have a failed business model but a business model that has been losing ground to the competition and has reached a point where it getting considerably worse.

ObsiWan
11-06-2013, 12:57 PM
If the doctors give him clearance, I see him coming back to coaching. And no way will McNair fire him after this season, even if the results are 2-14. I could not envision a situation where McNair fires his golden boy after suffering a stroke during the middle of a game.

However, if coaching is directly contributing to Kubiak's condition, I would hope that he makes the 'right' decision for his family, not the franchise, players, or sport he loves. I would assume his family is priority based on what we know about Gary Kubiak. If this is a condition with a percentage chance, I do not think it's worth it, all things considered.

Nobody could, or would, blame him at all for walking away.

Spot on. Barring a medical prognosis prohibiting him from coaching, firing Kubiak discussions are now moot. If able, he will be back.

Might be the perfect excuse for McNair to move Kubiak to a VP of football operations, allowing him to bring in a new head coach without firing the man. We all know Kubiak is much more than a head coach in this organization, & he's really done a fine job in all aspects of building this organization to what it is...... but, we should be able to find a better head coach.


This is exactly what I was thinking. Bump Kube's upstairs, so to speak. Take the day-to-day stress off his plate. Let him be a "consultant" a la Dan Reeves. Hell, let him pick his successor - or at least compile the list of candidates he'd like to see follow him. Whatever. Just back off, Kubes. Go watch your kids play ball.



Part of me wonders if this is why he can never watch FGs...?

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 01:07 PM
The success of the Colts could likely be a part of the decision of whether or not the Texans should continue down the same road traveled the last 8 years. If Colts make it to AFC Championship game in addition to also having $40 million to spend in free agency in 2014 vs Texans picking in Top 10 in the 2014 NFL Draft with only $8 million available to spend under the salary cap in the 2014, this will not only dictate change but demand changes in the front office. Not only do the Texans have a failed business model but a business model that has been losing ground to the competition and has reached a point where it getting considerably worse.

LMAO at "Texans have a failed business model"!!! What a bunch of hogwash.

Forbes Declares Houston Texans Fifth Most Valuable Franchise In NFL (http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/8/14/4620938/forbes-declares-houston-texans-fifth-most-valuable-franchise-in-nfl)

This year, Forbes has your Houston Texans ranked fifth in the NFL in terms of value, to the tune of the team being worth a cool $1,450,000,000.00. Staggering, isn't it? Not a bad return on investment for Bob McNair and his investors; they paid $700,000,000.00 for the franchise a little more than ten years ago.

Show me a business model where a $700 million investment turns into $1.4 BILLION worth, and any expert would say that is anything but a so-called "failed business model".

Your clear agenda blinds you to any credible objectivity.

It is one thing to want a FO overhaul, as many fans agree. But to spew ignorance about "failed business model" in the face of clear success is just goofy, at best.

Go ahead an spin it now. :spin:

AMartin56
11-06-2013, 01:16 PM
LMAO at "Texans have a failed business model"!!! What a bunch of hogwash.



Show me a business model where a $700 million investment turns into $1.4 BILLION worth, and any expert would say that is anything but a so-called "failed business model".

Your clear agenda blinds you to any credible objectivity.

It is one thing to want a FO overhaul, as many fans agree. But to spew ignorance about "failed business model" in the face of clear success is just goofy, at best.

Go ahead an spin it now. :spin:

As a football fan I would hope you would be more concerned about on field performance and less about how much money McNair makes despite having very little on field success. But then again it never ceases to amaze me how people nowadays admire the rich while the little guy's money is being sucked away left and right.

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 01:20 PM
As a football fan I would hope you would be more concerned about on field performance and less about how much money McNair makes despite having very little on field success. But then again it never ceases to amaze me how people nowadays admire the rich while the little guy's money is being sucked away left and right.

Of course I care about on field performance, but that doesn't mean I swallow baseless hyperbole like sugar cubes.

I have no admiration for rich folks. I could not care less about class envy. So take your little straw man elsewhere, with all due respect. ;)

But to make a statement that the Houston Texans is a "failed business model", I find it silly.

It's all just entertainment to me. So maybe I lack the emotional dependency of the vicarious folks.

AMartin56
11-06-2013, 01:27 PM
Of course I care about on field performance, but that doesn't mean I swallow baseless hyperbole like sugar cubes.

I have no admiration for rich folks. I could not care less about class envy. So take your little straw man elsewhere, with all due respect. ;)

But to make a statement that the Houston Texans is a "failed business model", I find it silly.

It's all just entertainment to me. So maybe I lack the emotional dependency of the vicarious folks.

28,000 posts and it's just entertainment...you might want to check out a movie sometimes...with all due respect...

I'm fairly sure they original post meant 'failed football model' or 'failed championship model'. I understood what they meant.

badboy
11-06-2013, 01:33 PM
As a football fan I would hope you would be more concerned about on field performance and less about how much money McNair makes despite having very little on field success. But then again it never ceases to amaze me how people nowadays admire the rich while the little guy's money is being sucked away left and right.

DB was responding to an earlier post that Texans had a failed business plan so I do not get your post. Also hoping your "little guy" comment has nothing to do with fans with discretionary funds to pay NFL prices?

Having said this, not sure how much Kubiak or team's record historically has to do with worth of this franchise. A football starved fan base that fills the stadium, plus Reliant naming rights and other advertisment money is bigger factor. I give credit to McNair for business plan as it was established way before Kubiak became coach.

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 01:34 PM
28,000 posts and it's just entertainment...you might want to check out a movie sometimes...with all due respect...

I'm fairly sure they original post meant 'failed football model' or 'failed championship model'. I understood what they meant.

Post count as a moderator and member for almost 10 years. Whole lotta' NSZ conversations, as well. Bunch of air and one liners. Big deal. Post count means nothing but wasted time.

You can be sure of whatever you desire, but that's not what the lady said. Words represent ourselves on a forum, so I take them at face value. I try to avoid assumptions, and perhaps you should try it, as well.

Besides, Mr. Reader, my point was watching the NFL is entertainment. Some folks take it to another level with emotional investment. Sorry you were unable to comprehend a fairly basic and clear point.

AMartin56
11-06-2013, 02:03 PM
Context is important...here are the original comments:

'The success of the Colts could likely be a part of the decision of whether or not the Texans should continue down the same road traveled the last 8 years. If Colts make it to AFC Championship game in addition to also having $40 million to spend in free agency in 2014 vs Texans picking in Top 10 in the 2014 NFL Draft with only $8 million available to spend under the salary cap in the 2014, this will not only dictate change but demand changes in the front office. Not only do the Texans have a failed business model but a business model that has been losing ground to the competition and has reached a point where it getting considerably worse.'

I think it's quite clear that the point being made involved talent evaluation and cap management. NOT if the Texans as a whole are profitable overall. You just chose to take it in that direction due to two poorly chosen words.

But whatever....you can obviously out post me quantity wise so I'm moving on. Enjoy your 'victory'....hopefully unlike a Kubiak coached team you can keep it up for four quarters!

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 02:39 PM
But whatever....you can obviously out post me quantity wise so I'm moving on. Enjoy your 'victory'....hopefully unlike a Kubiak coached team you can keep it up for four quarters!

I honestly do not understand the attitude behind your posts. I have never had a beef with you and I'm not sure where your vitriol originates from.

But if you feel the need to be competitive, be my guest. You can "win" the internet!

As far as the original subject with Texian, you could very well be right and things not written correctly taken out of context. That said, Texian is always able to defend herself, and while I rarely agree with her, I do think she is articulate and intelligent and does not need your rush to her defense.

And don't get too caught up in post count. I have been very fortunate to have made many, many friends on Texans Talk/HT.com over the years, and much of the number is directly attributed to conversations with these many fine folks.

Texian
11-06-2013, 02:55 PM
LMAO at "Texans have a failed business model"!!! What a bunch of hogwash.



Show me a business model where a $700 million investment turns into $1.4 BILLION worth, and any expert would say that is anything but a so-called "failed business model".

Your clear agenda blinds you to any credible objectivity.

It is one thing to want a FO overhaul, as many fans agree. But to spew ignorance about "failed business model" in the face of clear success is just goofy, at best.

Go ahead an spin it now. :spin:

Leave it to you DB to take it out of context. Leave it to you to create the SPIN. So you won't get confused further and better understand, I was discussing the ON THE FIELD BUSINESS PLAN. RE: OBJECTIVITY = 2 and 6 vs more Kool Aid excuses and spin.

THE ON FIELD BUSINESS OPERATIONS PLAN IS A FAILED PLAN

HOU-TEX
11-06-2013, 02:59 PM
Wait...what? Texian's a she?

*Trying to remember if I was an inconsiderate prick towards Texian*

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 04:35 PM
Leave it to you DB to take it out of context. Leave it to you to create the SPIN. So you won't get confused further and better understand, I was discussing the [b]ON THE FIELD BUSINESS PLAN. RE: OBJECTIVITY = 2 and 6 vs more Kool Aid excuses and spin.

THE ON FIELD BUSINESS OPERATIONS PLAN IS A FAILED PLAN

What often cracks me up - and I mean literally makes me laugh - is having the same ultimate goal as another poster but being complete at odds on how we present these perspectives.

You have been so critical of so many aspects of this franchise that I refuse to assume anything into your words. When you say "Texans have a failed business model" , even in the context of hyping an opponent, I am going to read your words as you present them.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. :bubbles:

Wait...what? Texian's a she?

*Trying to remember if I was an inconsiderate prick towards Texian*

'eh, she's a big girl. She has no problem in bing a prick to anyone else, so don't sweat it.

She'd be having an aneurysm by now if I was infantrycak. :D

Marcus
11-06-2013, 04:58 PM
She'd be having an aneurysm by now if I was infantrycak. :D

:lol: She probably ain't got a clue what you mean by that, but Lordy, I sure do.

Texian
11-06-2013, 05:24 PM
What often cracks me up - and I mean literally makes me laugh - is having the same ultimate goal as another poster but being complete at odds on how we present these perspectives.

You have been so critical of so many aspects of this franchise that I refuse to assume anything into your words. When you say "Texans have a failed business model" , even in the context of hyping an opponent, I am going to read your words as you present them.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. :bubbles:



'eh, she's a big girl. She has no problem in bing a prick to anyone else, so don't sweat it.

She'd be having an aneurysm by now if I was infantrycak. :D

No Big Deal DB. You're are the only one who came up with such a cockamamie interpretation of the post, a real stretch but can certainly be expected from someone who is all cracked up. Apparently you're the only one who didn't understand.

Hervoyel
11-06-2013, 05:38 PM
If the source of his TIA is entirely controllable and is indeed completely controlled, such as the most likely AF, by medication or ablation, do not be surprised to see him return within the next 2 weeks.

I've been told that the source of my TIA is entirely controllable but I resist my doctors orders and continue watching Houston Texans football.

I've no one to blame but myself.

Wolf
11-06-2013, 05:39 PM
if you want to get technical. The business side of the Texans are doing quite well and making tons of money

The entertainment model of the texans. Not so well

Like Vinny coined the phrase a long time ago along the lines of the
Texans being a marketing company with a football division

Anywho..Back on track


Per sports app reports are Kubiak is expected back on week 11

Hervoyel
11-06-2013, 05:42 PM
No Big Deal DB. You're are the only one who came up with such a cockamamie interpretation of the post, a real stretch but can certainly be expected from someone who is all cracked up. Apparently you're the only one who didn't understand.

Don't count on it. He's the only one who took the time to respond. Doesn't mean he was the only one who read that and went "wut?"

Texian
11-06-2013, 05:48 PM
Don't count on it. He's the only one who took the time to respond. Doesn't mean he was the only one who read that and went "wut?"

He understood the original post perfectly well, just like everyone else. Only DB was also looking pizzing match. Unfortunately he was standing facing a head wind.

michaelm
11-06-2013, 05:50 PM
No Big Deal DB. You're are the only one who came up with such a cockamamie interpretation of the post, a real stretch but can certainly be expected from someone who is all cracked up. Apparently you're the only one who didn't understand.

Where I come from (and most of the people I know come from) the phrase business model is interpreted to mean business model. Instead of being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, couldn't you just say "no big deal, I probably could've used a different phrase"?

AMartin56
11-06-2013, 05:51 PM
Don't count on it. He's the only one who took the time to respond. Doesn't mean he was the only one who read that and went "wut?"

So...assuming we get past the issue of 'business model' actually meaning our approach to obtaining, developing and compensating talent do you think our current regime's approach is a good one? Meaning is this where you expected to be in year eight of our 'plan'? Are you fine with the fact that we are merely treading water while other teams in the league are making rapid progress in a fraction of the time? Including the Colts in our own division? Should the Texans be 'in it to win it' or is selling jerseys and putting butts in seats the goal?

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 06:05 PM
No Big Deal DB. You're are the only one who came up with such a cockamamie interpretation of the post, a real stretch but can certainly be expected from someone who is all cracked up. Apparently you're the only one who didn't understand.

I was going to respond that I was probably the only one that read your post, but obviously I was the only one that spent any time bothering to respond to it.

Typed slowly it means: nobody else thought enough of your post to reply.

That's sort of a backhanded compliment, but the only kind that you will get from me.

He understood the original post perfectly well, just like everyone else. Only DB was also looking pizzing match. Unfortunately he was standing facing a head wind.

Actually, that would be incorrect. If I had understood your post to mean what you did not actually write, then I never would have replied to it.

There are many of your posts...actually most of them to be honest...that I could confront if I wanted a "pizzing match". But your takes on football are not that interesting and I have no desire to debate your Fox News talking points in the NSZ.

I just made the mistake of taking your previously quoted post at face value when I replied. Obviously my mistake to give you any credit at all.

Where I come from (and most of the people I know come from) the phrase business model is interpreted to mean business model. Instead of being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, couldn't you just say "no big deal, I probably could've used a different phrase"?

yeah, that would have been the easy way, but that's not how Ms. Texian likes to operate. She is always right...even when she's wrong.

CloakNNNdagger
11-06-2013, 06:16 PM
I've been told that the source of my TIA is entirely controllable but I resist my doctors orders and continue watching Houston Texans football.

I've no one to blame but myself.

With the little information that you've given me to work with, my personal long term prognosis for your: You're screwed!

infantrycak
11-06-2013, 06:19 PM
So...assuming we get past the issue of 'business model' actually meaning our approach to obtaining, developing and compensating talent do you think our current regime's approach is a good one? Meaning is this where you expected to be in year eight of our 'plan'? Are you fine with the fact that we are merely treading water while other teams in the league are making rapid progress in a fraction of the time? Including the Colts in our own division? Should the Texans be 'in it to win it' or is selling jerseys and putting butts in seats the goal?

Treading water? Damn, you don't even sell revisionism well. Last I checked going from 2 division titles to 2-6 it wasn't treading water, it was falling out of the freaking boat with cement shoes on. Point being, the last 3 seasons are not treading water. There were 2 with a ton of improvement and success and 1 unmitigated disaster.

bckey
11-06-2013, 06:40 PM
Spot on. Barring a medical prognosis prohibiting him from coaching, firing Kubiak discussions are now moot. If able, he will be back.


Having a medical condition midseason shouldn't save someone's job if they were not cutting it prior to that condition. People need to be able to separate personal life from work. Why would you set your organization back (once again imho) because you feel sorry for someone. If he is able to come back sometime this season that would be fantastic. It would mean he is doing well health wise. I am all for Kubiak finishing out the season. He would have had he not had a stroke.

I don't like Kubiak as a head coach and I have been saying it for years. But I can separate those feelings and say I truly wish Kubiak a speedy recovery and want him to live a long and fruitful life. He really seems like a good man and is well liked. But I can also say I don't want him back coaching the Texans next year.

I've always maintained that Gary is a good offensive coordinator. I think the same thing about Phillips as defensive coordinator. Neither are great head coaches. Nothing wrong with that.

Vance87
11-06-2013, 06:42 PM
If Texian is a woman she posed as a man named Larry House that commented on an article in the Chronicle that got included in an article written by Stephanie Stradley.

Either that or Texian is a man named Larry House.

Also Texian has been suspended from the official MB for some time now.

infantrycak
11-06-2013, 06:57 PM
Having a medical condition midseason shouldn't save someone's job if they were not cutting it prior to that condition. People need to be able to separate personal life from work. Why would you set your organization back (once again imho) because you feel sorry for someone. If he is able to come back sometime this season that would be fantastic. It would mean he is doing well health wise. I am all for Kubiak finishing out the season. He would have had he not had a stroke.

I was on record prior to Kubiak's illness predicting he would not be fired. I do not believe McNair shares your evaluation of Kubiak. I don't think he views keeping Kubiak as holding the organization back. Instead, I would bet he thinks this team was poised for a serious run and has been let down by the epic meltdown of its starting QB. Now he is seeing flashes of brilliance from Case to possibly replace that glaring hole without much of a hiccup. I was not suggesting he would be retained because he fell ill, I already thought he would be retained. Plain and simple I was lampooning those pretending to care for Kubiak's health. That is by no means all people who want Kubiak fired.

bckey
11-06-2013, 07:09 PM
For the record I also don't think Kubiak will be fired. McNair marches to a different beat.

Texian
11-06-2013, 07:40 PM
If Texian is a woman she posed as a man named Larry House that commented on an article in the Chronicle that got included in an article written by Stephanie Stradley.

Either that or Texian is a man named Larry House.

Also Texian has been suspended from the official MB for some time now.

Thank You! One in the same.

Hervoyel
11-06-2013, 07:56 PM
So...assuming we get past the issue of 'business model' actually meaning our approach to obtaining, developing and compensating talent do you think our current regime's approach is a good one? Meaning is this where you expected to be in year eight of our 'plan'? Are you fine with the fact that we are merely treading water while other teams in the league are making rapid progress in a fraction of the time? Including the Colts in our own division? Should the Texans be 'in it to win it' or is selling jerseys and putting butts in seats the goal?

I think that what I think (or what you, or Texian, or Double Barrel thinks) is beside the point. Whether the Texans approach can be judged to be a good approach is entirely dependent on what Bob McNair thinks. It's his toy and if it's making him happy and doing what he places a priority on it doing then it's a success in his eyes.

My belief (based on observing from the outside with no real information as to the inner working of the Houston Texans) is that Bob places a lot of stock in running an "upstanding" organization. He places a great deal of importance on being good citizens in the community and he places a lot of emphasis on everyone attending Texans games having a fun, safe, and memorable "game day experience". He wants you to be happy when you leave Reliant Stadium regardless of the outcome of the football game. Win or lose he wants you to have had a good time and to come back..... with your wallet... and as much money as you can fit in it.

He's accomplishing all of that. He's involved in a multi-year process that he believes will result in his finding the Houston Texans version of Tom Landry and that will turn his franchise in the consistent winner that he wants in the model made famous by the Rooney's in Pittsburgh. He's about doing things "the right way" and having infinite patience while slow and steady wins the race.

Bob is in business and he makes business decisions. He believes in what he's doing and how he's doing it.

Now obviously he'd prefer owning a winner to owning a door mat but ultimately I think he's more concerned with being profitable and being seen as a good example of an NFL franchise than anything else. His consistency and his "process" will result in the titles. I think that's what he genuinely believes.

I wasn't a fan of the Kubiak hiring and my posts reflect that. Dig away and you'll see that I wanted an established winning coach and not someone doing this for the first time in their career. I was done with the Kubiak regime after his second 8-8. I felt like I'd seen enough and the years since then have born out what I felt would happen. The one thing I didn't see was McNair forging an alliance with Bum Phillips and hiring Bum's son, then basically giving him that half of the authority. I think that competent defense (arriving a few years too late to take advantage of the best years of some of our offensive players careers) accounts for the two division titles and the 10-6, 12-4 records. Without those I would have expected more 6-10 to 9-7 stumbling around from Gary and whatever dip**** he had hired to coach his defense.

In my view the Texans should be in it to win it but I haven't really expected that in a long, long time. I don't think we have any chance at all of getting there with Gary Kubiak and we won't get there with Wade Phillips who has placed Gary's job in an eternal state of "I got next". I like Wade and I loved Bum but Bum got that job for Wade and I don't want Wade to be my teams head coach.

I am certain however that unless Gary survives until Wade is ready to retire Wade is next up and it will be just as bad as what we've endured under Kubiak. These are not head coaches. They're nice guys and great coordinators but there's no leader here. Never has been. The Kubiak regime isn't about leadership. It's about being a "Pro" and doing things the right way and everyone pulling together to make sure we've all got each others backs. Much like McNair I think Gary just looks at those things and thinks that if he hangs in there they alone will lead to the desired result.

I really don't think McNair can tell the difference between what Kubiak gives him and what he believes will one day get him a ring as I spelled out in my second and third paragraph. I think they look close enough to one another that he thinks Gary's method is exactly like his process.

I think as fans we're ****ed unless one of these guys blindly stumbles upon the key to winning by accident.

AMartin56
11-06-2013, 08:13 PM
I think that what I think (or what you, or Texian, or Double Barrel thinks) is beside the point. Whether the Texans approach can be judged to be a good approach is entirely dependent on what Bob McNair thinks. It's his toy and if it's making him happy and doing what he places a priority on it doing then it's a success in his eyes.

...

I think as fans we're ****ed unless one of these guys blindly stumbles upon the key to winning by accident.

I didn't include the whole quote due to length but I think that whole post is an accurate summary of our current situation.

dalemurphy
11-06-2013, 09:55 PM
I think that what I think (or what you, or Texian, or Double Barrel thinks) is beside the point. Whether the Texans approach can be judged to be a good approach is entirely dependent on what Bob McNair thinks. It's his toy and if it's making him happy and doing what he places a priority on it doing then it's a success in his eyes.

My belief (based on observing from the outside with no real information as to the inner working of the Houston Texans) is that Bob places a lot of stock in running an "upstanding" organization. He places a great deal of importance on being good citizens in the community and he places a lot of emphasis on everyone attending Texans games having a fun, safe, and memorable "game day experience". He wants you to be happy when you leave Reliant Stadium regardless of the outcome of the football game. Win or lose he wants you to have had a good time and to come back..... with your wallet... and as much money as you can fit in it.

He's accomplishing all of that. He's involved in a multi-year process that he believes will result in his finding the Houston Texans version of Tom Landry and that will turn his franchise in the consistent winner that he wants in the model made famous by the Rooney's in Pittsburgh. He's about doing things "the right way" and having infinite patience while slow and steady wins the race.

Bob is in business and he makes business decisions. He believes in what he's doing and how he's doing it.

Now obviously he'd prefer owning a winner to owning a door mat but ultimately I think he's more concerned with being profitable and being seen as a good example of an NFL franchise than anything else. His consistency and his "process" will result in the titles. I think that's what he genuinely believes.

I wasn't a fan of the Kubiak hiring and my posts reflect that. Dig away and you'll see that I wanted an established winning coach and not someone doing this for the first time in their career. I was done with the Kubiak regime after his second 8-8. I felt like I'd seen enough and the years since then have born out what I felt would happen. The one thing I didn't see was McNair forging an alliance with Bum Phillips and hiring Bum's son, then basically giving him that half of the authority. I think that competent defense (arriving a few years too late to take advantage of the best years of some of our offensive players careers) accounts for the two division titles and the 10-6, 12-4 records. Without those I would have expected more 6-10 to 9-7 stumbling around from Gary and whatever dip**** he had hired to coach his defense.

In my view the Texans should be in it to win it but I haven't really expected that in a long, long time. I don't think we have any chance at all of getting there with Gary Kubiak and we won't get there with Wade Phillips who has placed Gary's job in an eternal state of "I got next". I like Wade and I loved Bum but Bum got that job for Wade and I don't want Wade to be my teams head coach.

I am certain however that unless Gary survives until Wade is ready to retire Wade is next up and it will be just as bad as what we've endured under Kubiak. These are not head coaches. They're nice guys and great coordinators but there's no leader here. Never has been. The Kubiak regime isn't about leadership. It's about being a "Pro" and doing things the right way and everyone pulling together to make sure we've all got each others backs. Much like McNair I think Gary just looks at those things and thinks that if he hangs in there they alone will lead to the desired result.

I really don't think McNair can tell the difference between what Kubiak gives him and what he believes will one day get him a ring as I spelled out in my second and third paragraph. I think they look close enough to one another that he thinks Gary's method is exactly like his process.

I think as fans we're ****ed unless one of these guys blindly stumbles upon the key to winning by accident.

I don't fully agree with all of this, but it is a fair and reasonable assessment.

I think McNair is more intent on winning that Hervoyel... However, it is undeniable that he prioritizes ethical and moral intangibles and consistency more than many fans would like- and more than many other organizations.

I also agree that Kubiak has a number of limitations as a leader. I think, however, he has some strengths as well and am more optimistic than most about the possibility of winning with him, though it is fair to say that he won't ever become an elite head coach and a game day difference-maker like the great ones.

I am one of the satisfied customers. As a recovering Cowboy fan who was overwhelmed with on field success in the 90s, I find Bob's model refreshing. My last year as a Cowboy fan, in 1995, I experienced how unsatisfying winning can be when Switzer took that team and won a Superbowl with it. After that day, I learned that (for me at least) winning is not that satisfying when you despise the leaders of that which you root for.

bckey
11-06-2013, 10:20 PM
I don't fully agree with all of this, but it is a fair and reasonable assessment.

I think McNair is more intent on winning that Hervoyel... However, it is undeniable that he prioritizes ethical and moral intangibles and consistency more than many fans would like- and more than many other organizations.

I also agree that Kubiak has a number of limitations as a leader. I think, however, he has some strengths as well and am more optimistic than most about the possibility of winning with him, though it is fair to say that he won't ever become an elite head coach and a game day difference-maker like the great ones.

I am one of the satisfied customers. As a recovering Cowboy fan who was overwhelmed with on field success in the 90s, I find Bob's model refreshing. My last year as a Cowboy fan, in 1995, I experienced how unsatisfying winning can be when Switzer took that team and won a Superbowl with it. After that day, I learned that (for me at least) winning is not that satisfying when you despise the leaders of that which you root for.

I can't even comprehend that. You have the patience of McNair. How you felt about Switzer is how I feel about Kubiak x 100. I don't like him whatsoever as a head coach. To me every year he stays around as head coach is another year wasted.

ArlingtonTexan
11-06-2013, 11:32 PM
I can't even comprehend that. You have the patience of McNair. How you felt about Switzer is how I feel about Kubiak x 100. I don't like him whatsoever as a head coach. To me every year he stays around as head coach is another year wasted.

In a lot of ways Mcnair runs the model NFL franchise in terms of consistent, but professional mediocrity as the norm and is all that is needed to keep the stadium full and the fans hopeful enough.

he provides the product that the NFL (Goddell) expects in 32 cities. On given week the Texans can beat and lose to anybody, In given season, the Texans can overperform (2012) or underperform (2013) with near equal probability.

ObsiWan
11-07-2013, 04:39 AM
Don't count on it. He's the only one who took the time to respond. Doesn't mean he was the only one who read that and went "wut?"
...raises hand.... I was confused.

Where I come from (and most of the people I know come from) the phrase business model is interpreted to mean business model. Instead of being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, couldn't you just say "no big deal, I probably could've used a different phrase"?
That's what I have been wondering.

Sigma
11-07-2013, 05:55 AM
“We all love Coach, and don’t get me wrong, we want to go out there and win to lift his spirits so he can make a quicker recovery, but we can’t do it,”

did he really say something like this?

or is it just the onion making fun of the texans?

source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/texans-players-wish-they-were-good-enough-to-rally,34459/)

bckey
11-07-2013, 06:20 AM
In a lot of ways Mcnair runs the model NFL franchise in terms of consistent, but professional mediocrity as the norm and is all that is needed to keep the stadium full and the fans hopeful enough.

he provides the product that the NFL (Goddell) expects in 32 cities. On given week the Texans can beat and lose to anybody, In given season, the Texans can overperform (2012) or underperform (2013) with near equal probability.

I think Houston has had more than their share of the underperforming seasons.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you on most of it. The Texans just seem to have a 3 headed mediocre monster. Owner, GM, and head coach. As frustrating as it was to see Kubiak march Schaub out there week after week it is even more frustrating to watch McNair march Kubiak out there year after year. I wish we had Kubiak as oc and some strong leader type like Cower or Gruden as hc. Maybe tell Kubiak his stress level needs to be reduced so we are reducing your role in the organization to help you out health wise. I can dream can't I?

Hervoyel
11-07-2013, 08:52 AM
did he really say something like this?

or is it just the onion making fun of the texans?

source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/texans-players-wish-they-were-good-enough-to-rally,34459/)

Just the onion having a little joke at the Texans expense. Not really a big deal, just nice to see that we're back in the "butt of the joke" zone again.

Hervoyel
11-07-2013, 09:01 AM
I don't fully agree with all of this, but it is a fair and reasonable assessment.

I think McNair is more intent on winning that Hervoyel... However, it is undeniable that he prioritizes ethical and moral intangibles and consistency more than many fans would like- and more than many other organizations.

I also agree that Kubiak has a number of limitations as a leader. I think, however, he has some strengths as well and am more optimistic than most about the possibility of winning with him, though it is fair to say that he won't ever become an elite head coach and a game day difference-maker like the great ones.

I am one of the satisfied customers. As a recovering Cowboy fan who was overwhelmed with on field success in the 90s, I find Bob's model refreshing. My last year as a Cowboy fan, in 1995, I experienced how unsatisfying winning can be when Switzer took that team and won a Superbowl with it. After that day, I learned that (for me at least) winning is not that satisfying when you despise the leaders of that which you root for.

I think he's very intent on winning and that he believes that what he's done thus far is going to make it happen. I think he's mistaken and that the franchise he's setup is a recipe for 6-10 to 10-6 (at best) until the end of time but I guess to some that's a degree of success. Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati seems to have survived living in that "climate" for a long time. Gary Kubiak has as well.

I agree with you about the strengths of Gary Kubiak and I think they're what make him a great coordinator as well as mediocre head coach. I guess we could win with him if everything falls into place at the right time and Rick Smith is suddenly possessed by the spirits of both Mike Holovak and Joel Bushbaum at the same time but I find it unlikely.

I hope for the best but believe ultimately that we'll not be consistently winning under this regime and that the above average years will come as a result of simple good fortune as opposed to some kind of breakthrough of understanding on Kubes part. He does everything the same way with focused consistency every year so outlying seasons (for better or worse) are generally attributable to something else affecting the situation.

GlassHalfFull
11-07-2013, 09:17 AM
I wish we could leave this thread for discussing his health and wishing him well. There are plenty of other threads out there to discuss his coaching.

I also wish people flashing there soap avatars would stay out of this thread out of respect for Kubiak the man. No matter what you think of him as a coach, by all accounts he is a good and decent man.

Texian
11-07-2013, 10:19 AM
I was going to respond that I was probably the only one that read your post, but obviously I was the only one that spent any time bothering to respond to it.

Typed slowly it means: nobody else thought enough of your post to reply.

That's sort of a backhanded compliment, but the only kind that you will get from me.



Actually, that would be incorrect. If I had understood your post to mean what you did not actually write, then I never would have replied to it.

There are many of your posts...actually most of them to be honest...that I could confront if I wanted a "pizzing match". But your takes on football are not that interesting and I have no desire to debate your Fox News talking points in the NSZ.

I just made the mistake of taking your previously quoted post at face value when I replied. Obviously my mistake to give you any credit at all.



yeah, that would have been the easy way, but that's not how Ms. Texian likes to operate. She is always right...even when she's wrong.

So you're a Libby...that explains a lot.....just like a Libby, brings his animosity, dislikes and vitriol to a football discussion..... a man who can't separate his politics from his football.....now we understand the bias and the absence of objectivity. Instead of business, he makes it personal. Carry On

Double Barrel
11-07-2013, 10:56 AM
So you're a Libby...that explains a lot.....just like a Libby, brings his animosity, dislikes and vitriol to a football discussion..... a man who can't separate his politics from his football.....now we understand the bias and the absence of objectivity. Instead of business, he makes it personal. Carry On

You had to sleep on it to come up with this reply? How embarrassing for you.

Blake
11-07-2013, 10:59 AM
:slapfight:

Texian
11-07-2013, 11:14 AM
You had to sleep on it to come up with this reply? How embarrassing for you.

Nope, I don't spend 16-18 hours a day on a message board accumulating 30,000 posts.

Double Barrel
11-07-2013, 11:21 AM
Nope, I don't spend 16-18 hours a day on a message board accumulating 30,000 posts.

Give it up, man. It's run it's course and derailed the thread. I'm as guilty as you for stepping in the poo, and I take the full blame because I should know better than to engage you, of all people.

Take our fellow posters' remarks to heart and let this thread get back to where it should be.

I wish we could leave this thread for discussing his health and wishing him well. There are plenty of other threads out there to discuss his coaching.

I also wish people flashing there soap avatars would stay out of this thread out of respect for Kubiak the man. No matter what you think of him as a coach, by all accounts he is a good and decent man.

:slapfight:

I agree with both of y'all and sincerely apologize to the forum for my part in pulling this thread away from it's original intent. Trolls gonna' troll, and I know better, so truly sorry to be a part of it.

Hervoyel
11-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Nope, I don't spend 16-18 hours a day on a message board accumulating 30,000 posts.

It's not that hard to accumulate a lot of posts. Certainly doesn't take 16-18 hours a day. Your "Get a life" implication doesn't really work.

Time to go away.

Sigma
11-07-2013, 11:32 AM
Just the onion having a little joke at the Texans expense. Not really a big deal, just nice to see that we're back in the "butt of the joke" zone again.

the sad thing is that the look of watt actually sais:

“I love Coach, and don’t get me wrong, I want to go out there and win to lift his spirits so he can make a quicker recovery, but THEY can’t do it,”

or at least that's the impression I have

Texian
11-07-2013, 11:53 AM
He's accomplishing He's involved in a multi-year process that he believes will result in his finding the Houston Texans version of Tom Landry and that will turn his franchise in the consistent winner that he wants in the model made famous by the Rooney's in Pittsburgh.

Bob's Tom Landry business model is missing a Tex Schram and a Gil Brandt.

GlassHalfFull
11-07-2013, 11:57 AM
I wish we could leave this thread for discussing his health and wishing him well. There are plenty of other threads out there to discuss his coaching.

I also wish people flashing there soap avatars would stay out of this thread out of respect for Kubiak the man. No matter what you think of him as a coach, by all accounts he is a good and decent man.

Quoting myself in shame. Made a grammar error I hate.

**their soap avatars**

But seriously folks who can't let it go, take it elsewhere please.

Back on topic

Three days after coach Gary Kubiak collapsed on the Reliant Stadium turf and a few hours after the team named defensive coordinator Wade Phillips the interim coach, the Houston Chronicle reports that, barring any setbacks, Kubiak will return for the Week 11 contest vs. the Raiders.

That obviously would be great news for Kubiak, who reportedly suffered a mini-stroke during halftime of last week's Colts game and had to be rushed to the hospital.

He was released from the hospital Tuesday and released this statement:

“I want to thank my family, the McNair family, the Texans organization, the doctors and staff at Houston Methodist and the entire Houston community for all the love and support we have received over the past three days. I've been through an ordeal and my focus now is to get back to good health. Doctors have told me I will make a full recovery but we have not determined when I will be cleared to return to the office. Again, thank you for the support and concern.”

I wish him the best.

link (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24195983/report-texans-coach-gary-kubiak-expected-to-return-by-week-11)

Marcus
11-07-2013, 12:11 PM
I'd like to make a request that this thread be locked.

It's going to continue to get derailed if it isn't, and it's not the appropriate place to discuss Kubiak, the coach, and what you think of him as the coach.

HOU-TEX
11-07-2013, 12:44 PM
Quoting myself in shame. Made a grammar error I hate.

**their soap avatars**

But seriously folks who can't let it go, take it elsewhere please.

Back on topic



I wish him the best.

link (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24195983/report-texans-coach-gary-kubiak-expected-to-return-by-week-11)

So I reckon we'll never really know what might've caused this episode? I think they ruled out exhaustion. Anxiety? Stress? I don't know, it seems strange considering how healthy he is.

My high BP has been declared genic by my cardio. I wonder if that might be it

drs23
11-08-2013, 08:27 PM
Nope, I don't spend 16-18 hours a day on a message board accumulating 30,000 posts.

You're getting there quick.

I'm a little late to the party, eerrr, peepeeing match but I did catch up.

That said, I find myself cornfused...

If Texian is a woman she posed as a man named Larry House that commented on an article in the Chronicle that got included in an article written by Stephanie Stradley.

Either that or Texian is a man named Larry House.

Thank You! One in the same.

So are you a dangler or a canoe, confused gender, keyboard impersonator, whut?

I'm almost sure I'm not alone in questioning this. Even if I am, I still wanna know.

So, are you Larry or Mary??? :heart:

Texian
11-09-2013, 04:15 PM
You're getting there quick.

I'm a little late to the party, eerrr, peepeeing match but I did catch up.

That said, I find myself cornfused...





So are you a dangler or a canoe, confused gender, keyboard impersonator, whut?

I'm almost sure I'm not alone in questioning this. Even if I am, I still wanna know.

So, are you Larry or Mary??? :heart:

Well Ma'am, I'm not a Mary but what if I were?

eriadoc
11-09-2013, 05:59 PM
So I reckon we'll never really know what might've caused this episode?

I hope not. It's none of our business. The man's under scrutiny for every action he takes already; that's probably a factor in the cause. I hope his medical records stay private. I know I'd want mine to stay private.

That job's a bear, especially when the team is not performing. Working 16-20 hours a day and stressing over stuff he can't truly control has got to be a b&^ch. Whatever I may think of his record so far, I wish him the best for his health and family.

thunderkyss
11-10-2013, 06:02 AM
The success of the Colts could likely be a part of the decision of whether or not the Texans should continue down the same road traveled the last 8 years. If Colts make it to AFC Championship game in addition to also having $40 million to spend in free agency in 2014 vs Texans picking in Top 10 in the 2014 NFL Draft with only $8 million available to spend under the salary cap in the 2014, this will not only dictate change but demand changes in the front office. Not only do the Texans have a failed business model but a business model that has been losing ground to the competition and has reached a point where it getting considerably worse.

I hear ya..... paying your players just doesn't work in the NFL anymore. We should let them all walk, let Bob pocket that money. So long Duane Brown, Jjo, Cushing, Schaub..... pfft.... we don't need no stinking Aj, OD, Arian Foster (tofu eating sumbich)..... who needs Chris Myers & Danieal Manning?

Not us.

All we need is more cap room to not pay players.

Cap room wins championships.

:ok:

Texian
11-10-2013, 09:04 AM
I hear ya..... paying your players just doesn't work in the NFL anymore. We should let them all walk, let Bob pocket that money. So long Duane Brown, Jjo, Cushing, Schaub..... pfft.... we don't need no stinking Aj, OD, Arian Foster (tofu eating sumbich)..... who needs Chris Myers & Danieal Manning?

Not us.

All we need is more cap room to not pay players.

Cap room wins championships.

:ok:

I really think you're missing the point here. The Colts have on avg. $1.75 million to spend on each free agent and the Texans on avg have less than the vet minimum of $500K to spend per free agent. Now I ask you, who can afford to sign the better players next year?

houstonhurricane
11-10-2013, 11:45 AM
I really think you're missing the point here. The Colts have on avg. $1.75 million to spend on each free agent and the Texans on avg have less than the vet minimum of $500K to spend per free agent. Now I ask you, who can afford to sign the better players next year?

At least we didn't trade a first rounder for Trent Richardson...

Texian
11-10-2013, 12:02 PM
At least we didn't trade a first rounder for Trent Richardson...

I too don't agree with the Richardson trade but they still average $1.75 million per free agent.

infantrycak
11-10-2013, 12:59 PM
I too don't agree with the Richardson trade but they still average $1.75 million per free agent.

Due primarily to the new rookie wage scale.

Sam Bradford 6 years, $78 mil, $13 mil avg.
Andrew Luck 4 years, $22.1 mil, $5.5 mil avg.

Texecutioner
11-10-2013, 03:07 PM
I don't fully agree with all of this, but it is a fair and reasonable assessment.

I think McNair is more intent on winning that Hervoyel... However, it is undeniable that he prioritizes ethical and moral intangibles and consistency more than many fans would like- and more than many other organizations.

I also agree that Kubiak has a number of limitations as a leader. I think, however, he has some strengths as well and am more optimistic than most about the possibility of winning with him, though it is fair to say that he won't ever become an elite head coach and a game day difference-maker like the great ones.

I am one of the satisfied customers. As a recovering Cowboy fan who was overwhelmed with on field success in the 90s, I find Bob's model refreshing. My last year as a Cowboy fan, in 1995, I experienced how unsatisfying winning can be when Switzer took that team and won a Superbowl with it. After that day, I learned that (for me at least) winning is not that satisfying when you despise the leaders of that which you root for.


You find this idea refreshing where the HC is allowed to coddle his failing coaching staff to the point of failure that looks like a train crash over and over again? It was the whole Frank Bush and Smith debacle with the defense where neither guy should have been hired in the first place and then Gary was forced to have Wade come into the picture after years were wasted. Now we're still dealing with problems like Marciano who Kubes refuses to let go of, a pudgy kicker who can't even get close to the goal posts, and Matt Schaub who Gary refused to bench even after he broke the pick 6 record and his statistics going back to last 4 games of 2012 season were mind boggling bad. How do you still find this kind of approach refreshing from Bob after 8 years of Smithiak? I just can't understand the positive feelings from these constant failures that seem so similar to the ones in the early Kubiak era of the Texans.

Texian
11-10-2013, 04:45 PM
Due primarily to the new rookie wage scale.

Sam Bradford 6 years, $78 mil, $13 mil avg.
Andrew Luck 4 years, $22.1 mil, $5.5 mil avg.

That's a $7.5 million difference. $7.5 million is less than 20% of the $40 million, so primarily is not necessarily the case but it helps that's for sure. $7.5 is 3 players over $2 million and $2 million gets you a pretty good football player.