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thunderkyss
11-03-2013, 10:23 PM
I tried this a few weeks back, didn't go over to well. But Andrew Luck has yet to impress me. Like Schaub, he needs every part of his team to be working extremely well to keep it close & give them a chance.

Today is not that day. We've got problems of our own, nuy keenum is shining like a mother.

Two games into it, what do you think? Case Keenum or Andrew Luck?

stingray
11-03-2013, 10:38 PM
I have seen Luck play several games now and he isnt the most accurate qb out there. Hes athletic and can make plays but the ball sails on him quite a bit. I would still take luck because kernums sample size us still too small.

EllisUnit
11-03-2013, 10:44 PM
Well it looks like Luck needs that star WR all the time to be an elite QB, and Elite QBs usually make everyone else look good, still its only his 2nd start but hell yeah i'd take UH home grown underdog case over luck ;)

Rey
11-03-2013, 10:45 PM
I don't think luck is in all that great a system.

I don't even know what the hell the colts do. They have a suspect running game. Their play action sucks. Their receivers aren't all that great.

I think if luck were here in another system he'd be better. I think the colts either need a better offensive system or luck has to take his game to another level. He has to become a better passer.

That didn't answer your question, but I really believe the situations players find themselves in can really hurt them or really help them.

I think if Schaub would have gotten traded to the dolphins instead of us, he might be out of the league already. Don't think he'd have made any pro bowls or really be thought of as anything close to special.

I think that there are few players that just shine regardless of situation.

MEGA SWATT
11-03-2013, 10:45 PM
In Case (Keenum) you missed this earlier.........

I am going to LMAO when a UDFA outplays the #1 ovrl pick at his position from his draft class on Sunday night football in front of the entire country. :)

Msr

case :doot:

Let's just say if that happens I'd have to change my shorts.

Let's just say... you better have an extra pair handy.


http://mangatopia.net/main/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/its-happening-ron-paul-gif.gif

2slik4u
11-03-2013, 10:53 PM
I tried this a few weeks back, didn't go over to well. But Andrew Luck has yet to impress me. Like Schaub, he needs every part of his team to be working extremely well to keep it close & give them a chance.

Today is not that day. We've got problems of our own, nuy keenum is shining like a mother.

Two games into it, what do you think? Case Keenum or Andrew Luck?

As impressive as keenum is playing, I'm still going to need a larger sample size to give the edge to keenum.

Luck is still better with a higher ceiling in my opinion. Bring this debate up at the end of the season and my answer may change.

The guy has only played a game in a half.

cstyle42
11-03-2013, 11:06 PM
This sorry kicker is killing us

ArlingtonTexan
11-03-2013, 11:14 PM
I don't think luck is in all that great a system.

I don't even know what the hell the colts do. They have a suspect running game. Their play action sucks. Their receivers aren't all that great.

I think if luck were here in another system he'd be better. I think the colts either need a better offensive system or luck has to take his game to another level. He has to become a better passer.

That didn't answer your question, but I really believe the situations players find themselves in can really hurt them or really help them.

I think if Schaub would have gotten traded to the dolphins instead of us, he might be out of the league already. Don't think he'd have made any pro bowls or really be thought of as anything close to special.

I think that there are few players that just shine regardless of situation.

The only disagreement I have with you is that Luck was/is supposed to be a player where system does not matter. if he needs a better system then he is overrated a little bit.

To the broader topic, a rookie dropping 11 wins and a playoff appearance is unimpressive or him leading a victory over the undefeated Broncos in his last game is no big deal. 9 game winning drives in a year and half.

ESPN's total QBR ranks him as 5th going into the weekend (traditional ranking 13th)


http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

Rey
11-03-2013, 11:18 PM
The only disagreement I have with you is that Luck was/is supposed to be a player where system does not matter. if he needs a better system then he is overrated a little bit.

To the broader topic, a rookie dropping 11 wins and a playoff appearance is unimpressive or him leading a victory over the undefeated Broncos in his last game is no big deal. 9 game winning drives in a year and half.

ESPN's total QBR ranks him as 5th going into the weekend (traditional ranking 13th)


http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

Right and that's my hesitancy with the emotional luck sucks keenum is great notion.

I think keenum is good. If he grows and gets better he could be really good. Great even.

But I think luck is damn good in a system that is pretty basic.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-03-2013, 11:46 PM
Did you really compare Luck to Schaub? How does that foot taste?

EllisUnit
11-03-2013, 11:47 PM
i know Case should of spiked the damn ball, he waisted like 10 seconds. Damn this was a heart breaking loss, I think this loss might show how valuble Kubiak is to this team, we could clearly see the difference in play calling after half time.

cdollaz
11-03-2013, 11:48 PM
Silliness.

ArlingtonTexan
11-03-2013, 11:49 PM
The only disagreement I have with you is that Luck was/is supposed to be a player where system does not matter. if he needs a better system then he is overrated a little bit.

To the broader topic, a rookie dropping 11 wins and a playoff appearance is unimpressive or him leading a victory over the undefeated Broncos in his last game is no big deal. 9 game winning drives in a year and half.

ESPN's total QBR ranks him as 5th going into the weekend (traditional ranking 13th)


http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

oops make that 10 game winning 4th/overtime drives

aussie_texan
11-03-2013, 11:54 PM
cmon are you guys serious. massive homerism coming out now. luck is already a top 12 QB in the league and its his second year. his going to be the best QB in a few years time. the smarts he has is incredible at his age. oh he isn't 100% accurate again its his second year give the guy time.

your comparing him to a guy who has 2 starts in the NFL. c'mon really.

I love Keenum but lets not have this debate till the end of the season at minimum. this is a non issue at the moment.

10 come from behind wins so far in his career is another awesome stat

legacy_gt
11-03-2013, 11:57 PM
cmon are you guys serious. massive homerism coming out now. luck is already a top 12 QB in the league and its his second year. his going to be the best QB in a few years time. the smarts he has is incredible at his age. oh he isn't 100% accurate again its his second year give the guy time.

your comparing him to a guy who has 2 starts in the NFL. c'mon really.

I love Keenum but lets not have this debate till the end of the season at minimum. this is a non issue at the moment.

10 come from behind wins so far in his career is another awesome stat

yep, I wished we had a kicker like the colts do.

TexansBull
11-03-2013, 11:59 PM
I say Keenum won performance wise. But still a lost.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 12:03 AM
I've openly ridiculed TKyss for his stance on Luck before and nothing that happened tonight makes me want to back off at all. But that has nothing to do with Keenum. They are at different points in their career in different systems with different traits. I'd take Luck in a heartbeat, and I'm a UH homer. But since I can't have Luck, give me Keenum. Let the man keep slinging it while he figures things out and I'll watch him grow.

Oh, and in Case I wasn't clear, TKyss - your stance on Luck pretty well invalidates just about every football take you have, in my eyes. But I still think you're OK. :)

legacy_gt
11-04-2013, 12:03 AM
not a fair comparison with case only having 2 games. I saw the improvement today against the blitz and case's long ball looked great.

76Texan
11-04-2013, 12:07 AM
cmon are you guys serious. massive homerism coming out now. luck is already a top 12 QB in the league and its his second year. his going to be the best QB in a few years time. the smarts he has is incredible at his age. oh he isn't 100% accurate again its his second year give the guy time.

your comparing him to a guy who has 2 starts in the NFL. c'mon really.

I love Keenum but lets not have this debate till the end of the season at minimum. this is a non issue at the moment.

10 come from behind wins so far in his career is another awesome stat

What about them people who started comparing Luck with Manning even before before he played a single down in the NFL?

Hervoyel
11-04-2013, 12:08 AM
i know Case should of spiked the damn ball, he waisted like 10 seconds. Damn this was a heart breaking loss, I think this loss might show how valuble Kubiak is to this team, we could clearly see the difference in play calling after half time.

Has Dennison ever even called a game here since coming to replace Shanny's boy? I've always wondered what it is exactly that he does and never could figure it out. Either way we were kind of off in the second half but I thought we still moved the ball well. We were just very conservative at points during those drives and we didn't finish drives. Making it worse our worthless kicker left 9 points on the field tonight which was more than the margin of victory.

Basically Randy Bullock finally cost us a game. Get used to that happening if he stays. He's missed 8 FG's in 8 weeks. Unreal.

aussie_texan
11-04-2013, 12:08 AM
What about them people who started comparing Luck with Manning even before before he played a single down in the NFL?

same as i regard this thread. we can have a discussion on where we think case's potential can take him. but making a direct comparison between him and luck, to me, is ludicrous

santo
11-04-2013, 12:12 AM
same as i regard this thread. we can have a discussion on where we think case's potential can take him. but making a direct comparison between him and luck, to me, is ludicrous
You're right. It's unfair to compare the 2. Luck has Vinetari while Case has, well, Bullock.:pop:

JCTexan
11-04-2013, 12:12 AM
Andrew Luck was the #1 overall pick and is a hell of a QB. Case Keenum outplayed him tonight and I'm loving everything he's shown his first two games.

aussie_texan
11-04-2013, 12:17 AM
You're right. It's unfair to compare the 2. Luck has Vinetari while Case has, well, Bullock.:pop:

yeah unfortunately your right as well:toropalm:

76Texan
11-04-2013, 12:19 AM
same as i regard this thread. we can have a discussion on where we think case's potential can take him. but making a direct comparison between him and luck, to me, is ludicrous

I don't compare their achievements, but I don't see any problem with people wanting to compare/contrast their skill sets, intangibles, etc.

Keenum actually had more football experience than Luck.

NastyNate
11-04-2013, 12:33 AM
:toropalm:

Really can not believe this thread.

aussie_texan
11-04-2013, 12:36 AM
I don't compare their achievements, but I don't see any problem with people wanting to compare/contrast their skill sets, intangibles, etc.

Keenum actually had more football experience than Luck.

at a college level you can compare i think its to hard to compare at an NFL level.

i have seen your posts from years back in the college football section and know that you have evaluated Keenum really well so i won't dispute your evaluations but for some, making comparisons based on 2 games on NFL by Keenum to Luck's year and a half is irrelevant.

DocBar
11-04-2013, 12:38 AM
Keenum.

hradhak
11-04-2013, 12:51 AM
I think Keenum has the potential to be a great QB. I would like to see him when teams have more game film on him.

Luck seems to have the ability to play well when he needs to. He reminds me of Flacco last season though. He looks terrible statistically but his teams end up winning. I think that our defense gave him a window that a better defense would not have. He took the opportunity and won.

I will pass judgement on Luck after another season or 2. I think he will likely struggle in the playoffs. Winning in the regular season isn't as important to me.

Goatcheese
11-04-2013, 12:56 AM
I just don't understand the Keenum love on this forum.

He looks great when chucking it downfield or making plays off schedule, but he struggles reading defenses, running the offense and making consistent plays within the system.

When the opponent takes away the deep routes, he looks very ordinary. You're not going to win a lot of games relying on low percentage deep passes and scrambling around for 5 seconds waiting for things to develop. He needs to work on functioning within the offense if he's going to have any chance of being the long term answer.

Can he do that? Of course. A lot of it is instincts and intelligence, but the rest is knowledge, dedication, practice and experience. He's definitely shown the flashes to make you want to see him grow, but a lot of guys have flashed only to burn out. I think you need 6-8 games to form a realistic opinion on how well he can play. Teams are going to adjust, take away his strengths and then we'll see if he can develop into a complete QB. He certainly didn't do anything tonight that makes Kubiak want to rush Schaub back out with his crippled foot and ankle, so it looks like we're going to get to see what Keenum is made of. Let's hope he's more Drew Brees and less Ryan Fitzpatrick.

As far as Luck goes, he was pretty poor in the first half, but there wasn't a lot to criticize in the second.

legacy_gt
11-04-2013, 01:03 AM
I just don't understand the Keenum love on this forum.

He looks great when chucking it downfield or making plays off schedule, but he struggles reading defenses, running the offense and making consistent plays within the system.

When the opponent takes away the deep routes, he looks very ordinary. You're not going to win a lot of games relying on low percentage deep passes and scrambling around for 5 seconds waiting for things to develop. He needs to work on functioning within the offense if he's going to have any chance of being the long term answer.

Can he do that? Of course. A lot of it is instincts and intelligence, but the rest is knowledge, dedication, practice and experience. He's definitely shown the flashes to make you want to see him grow, but a lot of guys have flashed only to burn out. I think you need 6-8 games to form a realistic opinion on how well he can play. Teams are going to adjust, take away his strengths and then we'll see if he can develop into a complete QB. He certainly didn't do anything tonight that makes Kubiak want to rush Schaub back out with his crippled foot and ankle, so it looks like we're going to get to see what Keenum is made of. Let's hope he's more Drew Brees and less Ryan Fitzpatrick.

As far as Luck goes, he was pretty poor in the first half, but there wasn't a lot to criticize in the second.

apparently the colts and chiefs forums and coaches think case has a great future. J McClain gave hime an A today. Go look on FB with the Keenum comments. the kid can play.

bullock making at least 1 out of 3 FG's makes the colts have to force things. yeah case can improve, but we've seen already an improvement when the colts went all out on some heavy blitz schemes.

ATXtexanfan
11-04-2013, 01:03 AM
Case is average. Luck a baller. Its that simple people. Luck has IT in the fourth qtr.

midway
11-04-2013, 01:06 AM
Case is average. Luck a baller. Its that simple people. Luck has IT in the fourth qtr.

That comeback was entirely down to Bullock being a bad kicker.

klockWork
11-04-2013, 01:06 AM
But Andrew Luck has yet to impress me.
Man, this guy must have made a pass at your wife or something for you to have this much denial at his talents. Almost half of his wins are from 4th quarter comebacks. He's already damn near broke that record in his first two years in the NFL and the 2nd season is barely half over.

I thought Luck were borderline elite before this game. This game put him in that status. But I don't think he will put up elite fantasy numbers b/c of the system, o-line, and lack of supporting offensive cast. And yet this dude came here in our place, against battle red, against an inspired crowd and it was business as usual.

One thing I know for certain Luck has over Keenum is his ability to maneuver in the pocket with subtle movement to avoid pass rush. Keenum will take the long way out by running toward the sidelines. Luck will calmly sidestep that oncoming rush while remaining in the pocket like that rusher were never there. If Keenum has that savvy in the pocket I take him in a heartbeat.

Vance87
11-04-2013, 01:10 AM
Case is average. Luck a baller. Its that simple people. Luck has IT in the fourth qtr.

Is this a joke? All Keenum did was march the offense down the field with 30 or whatever seconds left on the clock and no timeouts to give FAT RANDY a reasonable shot at a field goal.

Please tell me out of the two, which one is more "baller":

18/40
271 yds
3 TDs

or...

20/34
350 yds
3 TDs

ATXtexanfan
11-04-2013, 01:10 AM
That comeback was entirely down to Bullock being a bad kicker.

Case 0 pts two fourth qtrs. Schaub all over again. Fast start then fade.

Vance87
11-04-2013, 01:11 AM
Case 0 pts two fourth qtrs. Schaub all over again. Fast start then fade.

Does Case kick ****ing field goals?

Goatcheese
11-04-2013, 01:13 AM
apparently the colts and chiefs forums and coaches think case has a great future. J McClain gave hime an A today. Go look on FB with the Keenum comments. the kid can play.

bullock making at least 1 out of 3 FG's makes the colts have to force things. yeah case can improve, but we've seen already an improvement when the colts went all out on some heavy blitz schemes.

Fans love the highlight/lowlight reel and tend to blank on everything else. Coaches always talk up the opponent. It would be impolitic not too, and it makes them look better when they make the team they just played out to be good.

John McClain is arguably the most clueless sports analyst anywhere, ever. He was a VY homer too.

legacy_gt
11-04-2013, 01:14 AM
Fans love the highlight/lowlight reel and tend to blank on everything else. Coaches always talk up the opponent. It would be impolitic not too, and it makes them look better when they make the team they just played out to be good.

John McClain is arguably the most clueless sports analyst anywhere, ever. He was a VY homer too.

you're in the minority.

ATXtexanfan
11-04-2013, 01:15 AM
Is this a joke? All Keenum did was march the offense down the field with 30 or whatever seconds left on the clock and no timeouts to give FAT RANDY a reasonable shot at a field goal.

Please tell me out of the two, which one is more "baller":

18/40
271 yds
3 TDs

or...

20/34
350 yds
3 TDs
Luck has the W. Nuff said good buddy. Luck 15 pts in fourth Case 0. Pts win not total yds . Nor time of possession. Schaub has stats that amounted to a bunch of nothing

ArlingtonTexan
11-04-2013, 01:16 AM
:toropalm:

Really can not believe this thread.

Unfortunately, I believe and even anticipate threads like this one. Luck is off to a Hall of Fame start to his career and Case has proven that he might be some Jeff Garcia/Tony Romo lovechild (which I am quite happy about BTW). One has lived up to being the top overall pick in the draft the other has played two quality NFL games with arguably better skill personnel around him.

Bulls on Parade
11-04-2013, 01:16 AM
That comeback was entirely down to Bullock being a bad kicker.
Agreed. Case Keenum could be the next Drew Brees but more athletic. I'm very happy with him. These last two losses, nailbiters I might add, would have been blow out losses with Schaub at quarterback. Our special teams continues to be the worst in NFL history. Kicking game sucks, return game sucks, gunners in the return coverage suck. Only Shane Lechler is playing well. Having a great punter doesn't do a team any good if the other areas of special teams are horrible.

Goatcheese
11-04-2013, 01:16 AM
you're in the minority.

Yes, sadly intelligent people capable of rational thought are a tiny minority.

It's a burden I'm willing to carry.

VTexan
11-04-2013, 01:16 AM
He looks great when chucking it downfield or making plays off schedule, but he struggles reading defenses, running the offense and making consistent plays within the system.




a 2nd year player that has played 2 NFL games and has about 3 weeks of practice with the starters has trouble reading defenses and running the offense? no way!!!


edit: 2 game stats against 2 of the best teams in the NFL = 35/59,571 passing yards, 4tds, 0 ints, 36 rush yrds,6 sacks, 2 fumbles (1 lost)

ATXtexanfan
11-04-2013, 01:17 AM
Does Case kick ****ing field goals?

No he doesnt. Luck probably could. Just sayin

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 01:18 AM
I just don't understand the Keenum love on this forum.

That says more about you than anything else.

legacy_gt
11-04-2013, 01:18 AM
Yes, sadly intelligent people capable of rational thought are a tiny minority.

It's a burden I'm willing to carry.

don't flatter yourself bud.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-04-2013, 01:19 AM
No he doesnt. Luck probably could. Just sayin


Two weeks ago I thought you were drunk. Now I know you're just clueless. Just sayin.

Vance87
11-04-2013, 01:22 AM
Luck has the W. Nuff said good buddy. Luck 15 pts in fourth Case 0. Pts win not total yds . Nor time of possession. Schaub has stats that amounted to a bunch of nothing

There's a fine line between stupid and idiotic and you're straddling both sides.

ATXtexanfan
11-04-2013, 01:23 AM
Two weeks ago I thought you were drunk. Now I know you're just clueless.

Clueless maybe, blind.......no

MEGA SWATT
11-04-2013, 01:28 AM
No he doesnt. Luck probably could. Just sayin

since we're now saying stupid stuff.........



At least Case doesn't have Mange for a hair style. Just sayin.......

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 01:40 AM
I think I read somewhere that Keenum kicked a 40+ yard field goal in
highschool..

TJ

klockWork
11-04-2013, 01:55 AM
Is this a joke? All Keenum did was march the offense down the field with 30 or whatever seconds left on the clock and no timeouts to give FAT RANDY a reasonable shot at a field goal.

Please tell me out of the two, which one is more "baller":

18/40
271 yds
3 TDs

or...

20/34
350 yds
3 TDs

Luck was behind the 8ball the whole game. He's on the road, w/o his #1 receiver, w/o a productive running game, behind a bad pass protection, playing in a bad system. If Luck had better stats than Keenum has, Luck should be in the hall of fame right now.

But all he did was throw 3 tds, 0 int, 271 yds and another 4th comeback win. Yeah, Keenum is the unanimous baller.

76Texan
11-04-2013, 02:08 AM
Luck was behind the 8ball the whole game. He's on the road, w/o his #1 receiver, w/o a productive running game, behind a bad pass protection, playing in a bad system. If Luck had better stats than Keenum has, Luck should be in the hall of fame right now.

But all he did was throw 3 tds, 0 int, 271 yds and another 4th comeback win. Yeah, Keenum is the unanimous baller.

There's nothing wrong with both of them being ballers, is there?

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 02:17 AM
Keenum put up better numbers with a lesser team.
Luck put up worse numbers with a better team.

You can call whomever a baller you want.

Luck had no Wayne. Keenum had no Daniels, no
Foster, no Cushing, no Manning, no head coach
(hence no OC) in half 2, and a completely illegitimate
field goal kicker.

TJ

midway
11-04-2013, 02:23 AM
There are a lot of people on this forum who would rather the Texans lose out than see Keenum end up as a good QB.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 02:23 AM
From a John McClain article:

"Of course, another chapter to Keenum's Texas legend was added. He kicked a 47-yard field goal in the first game of the season. When Wylie needed three points for the Class 3A Division I title, Keenum pleaded for the right to guide another ball through the uprights.

"We had another kicker," Sandifer said. "But Case was begging me to put him in to kick it. He knew he could make it, and he wanted to kick it."

TJ

fiasco west
11-04-2013, 02:29 AM
There are a lot of people on this forum who would rather the Texans lose out than see Keenum end up as a good QB.

Well as we have just witnessed two games in a row...Keenum can play amazingly well and the team will STILL find a way to lose. So no worries there.

TheMatrix31
11-04-2013, 02:40 AM
Well as we have just witnessed two games in a row...Keenum can play amazingly well and the team will STILL find a way to lose. So no worries there.

So, what you're SAYING is....QB isn't the only thing that matters?

fiasco west
11-04-2013, 02:47 AM
So, what you're SAYING is....QB isn't the only thing that matters?

Heh I know, some people think it is that simple though.

Texans get two more FGs OR the defense just gets one more stop they win this game. It sucks, but our special teams in general (outside of punting the ball) has been horrible and our defense has let this team down a lot this year.

I'm thinking about the Seattle and KC game where they needed a stop as well and couldn't get one. Cushing a huge loss but our secondary has regressed...guess Reed was a bad signing instead of Quinn...

76Texan
11-04-2013, 02:48 AM
Luck had help in the second half; Keenum didn't.

Third Quarter

R.Bullock kicks 62 yards from HST 35 to IND 3. D.Reed pushed ob at IND 42 for 39 yards (E.Pleasant).

Indianapolis Colts at 15:00, (1st play from scrimmage 14:53)
1-10-IND 42 (14:53) (Shotgun) A.Luck pass incomplete short middle to C.Fleener

Short field postion for Luck and the Colts due to shoddy ST coverage.

3-6-HST 32 (12:19) (Shotgun) A.Luck pass incomplete deep right to G.Whalen (B.McCain).
PENALTY on HST-E.Reed, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at HST 32

Instead of a 49-50 yd FG try, the Colts made a 35 yarder (Luck ended up with 3 incompletions.

4-10-HST 17 (11:57) A.Vinatieri 35 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Overton, Holder-P.McAfee

...
P.McAfee kicks 74 yards from IND 35 to HST -9. K.Martin to HST 13 for 22 yards (K.Conner, S.Brown).

Houston Texans at 11:54, (1st play from scrimmage 11:48)
1-10-HST 13 (11:48) D.Johnson left guard to HST 18 for 5 yards (A.Franklin).

On the other hand, the ST gave Keenum the ball at the 13.

...

3-5-HST 20 (:29) (Shotgun) A.Luck pass incomplete deep right to L.Brazill.
PENALTY on HST-D.Sharpton, Roughing the Passer, 10 yards, enforced at HST 20 - No Play. X12
(:21) (Shotgun) A.Luck pass incomplete short left to D.Heyward-Bey. IND-D.Heyward-Bey was injured during the play. His return is
Questionable.
1-10-HST 10
2-10-HST 10 (:17) (Shotgun) A.Luck pass incomplete short left to T.Hilton (J.Joseph).
3-10-HST 10 (:11) (Shotgun) A.Luck pass short left to T.Hilton for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN

Instead of a FG, the penalty helped give the Colts a TD.

...

Fourth Quarter

4-3-IND 25 (10:36) R.Bullock 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-J.Weeks, Holder-S.Lechler.

The missed FG gave the Colts better field position than the average.
....

3-7-HST 33 (6:54) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass short right to A.Johnson to HST 44 for 11 yards (D.Butler).
Indianapolis challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was REVERSED.
(Shotgun) C.Keenum pass incomplete short right to A.Johnson.

4-7-HST 33 (6:21) S.Lechler punts 19 yards to IND 48, Center-J.Weeks, out of bounds. (The punt hang time was 4.8 seconds.)

Keenum was robbed of a third down conversion here.

...

4-16-IND 10 (:58) P.McAfee punts 56 yards to HST 34, Center-M.Overton. K.Martin pushed ob at IND 46 for 20 yards (K.Conner).
PENALTY on HST-E.Mack, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at HST 43

Instead of having good field position, at the Colts 46, the Texans had the ball at their 33 instead; thus the long missed FG by Bullock at the end.

...

Also, in the first half, the Colts lone FG was helped by a bad bounce on Lechler's punt and a PI on KJax.

4-8-HST 30 (5:15) S.Lechler punts 57 yards to IND 13, Center-J.Weeks. T.Hilton pushed ob at IND 47 for 34 yards (S.Lechler). (The punt hang time was 4.6
seconds.)

Indianapolis Colts at 5:00
1-10-IND 47 (5:00) A.Luck pass incomplete deep middle to D.Heyward-Bey.
PENALTY on HST-K.Jackson, Defensive Pass Interference, 46 yards, enforced at IND 47 - No Play. X4

4-12-HST 12 (3:33) A.Vinatieri 30 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Overton, Holder-P.McAfee.

On the other hand, Keenum suffered from one of Bullock's missed FG.

...

Yeah, I would say Keenum outplayed Luck alright.

ajohnson80
11-04-2013, 02:56 AM
I'm going to say the refs were really lame in this one but Andy Luck is the golden boy at the moment. Keenum played better in this one. If Keenum keeps this level of play up he is a superstar in the making, and this season will be good for him to take his lumps.

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 03:08 AM
:toropalm:

Really can not believe this thread.

& I don't understand this.

Before Luck took a snap in the NFL, Many of you guys saying it's too soon to compare Keenum & Luck were saying that Luck was better than Schaub, that this will be the Colts division to lose.

& here we are.

The question now, is "Does Keenum even the odds?"

Nitrofish
11-04-2013, 04:31 AM
I will 2nd the notion that this thread is stupid, and even worse than that is all of you excuse makers for Keenum. Even funnier is someone who says something about being in the minority as if somehow being in the majority makes you right.

The entire German population thought Hitler was great too, and if I am not mistaken, the majority voted for the current POTUS too... TWICE! Just sayin'.

The way I see it, many of you Schaub critics said all the Texans needed was a real QB and all would be right in Texans land, that bad offensive line play could be overcome by a mobile QB with a strong arm, and now all I hear is excuse after excuse in defense of the one many of you have anointed the messiah.

For now, you have all put out your torches, placed your pitch forks in the shed and replaced all of that criticism of Schaub with excuses for Keenum. Which of course you have to do, or you might look unreasonable right?

And yea before the usual suspects attack me and call me names, attack my character, blaa blaa blaa. Keep in mind I will not lose a wink of sleep, nor will I respect your opinion any more than I do now. So go ahead and fire away. I expect it from the fair weather, majority mob on this board who think their join date, or post count equates to having legitimacy.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-04-2013, 04:47 AM
I will 2nd the notion that this thread is stupid, and even worse than that is all of you excuse makers for Keenum. Even funnier is someone who says something about being in the minority as if somehow being in the majority makes you right.

The entire German population thought Hitler was great too, and if I am not mistaken, the majority voted for the current POTUS too... TWICE! Just sayin'.

The way I see it, many of you Schaub critics said all the Texans needed was a real QB and all would be right in Texans land, that bad offensive line play could be overcome by a mobile QB with a strong arm, and now all I hear is excuse after excuse in defense of the one many of you have anointed the messiah.

For now, you have all put out your torches, placed your pitch forks in the shed and replaced all of that criticism of Schaub with excuses for Keenum. Which of course you have to do, or you might look unreasonable right?

And yea before the usual suspects attack me and call me names, attack my character, blaa blaa blaa. Keep in mind I will not lose a wink of sleep, nor will I respect your opinion any more than I do now. So go ahead and fire away. I expect it from the fair weather, majority mob on this board who think their join date, or post count equates to having legitimacy.



Saying the kicker, who went 1 for 4 in a game we lost by a field goal, was the main catalyst for us losing this game isn't an excuse. It's a fact. If you can't see that Keenum's ability to buy time in the pocket and throw downfield have added a positive element to our offense then it is you that is being unreasonable. I haven't seen anyone making excuses for Keenum's play tonight because he has played well above most people's expectations. As for Schaub, he wasn't the sole reason we were losing but he was a big part of it along with our offensive line, overrated defense and abysmal special teams. At this point, there's no need to even mention Schaub anymore because this time next year he will be wearing a different jersey on Sundays. And calling people fairweather fans because they don't agree with you is laughable, at best. Have a good night.

fiasco west
11-04-2013, 07:40 AM
I will 2nd the notion that this thread is stupid, and even worse than that is all of you excuse makers for Keenum. Even funnier is someone who says something about being in the minority as if somehow being in the majority makes you right.

The entire German population thought Hitler was great too, and if I am not mistaken, the majority voted for the current POTUS too... TWICE! Just sayin'.

The way I see it, many of you Schaub critics said all the Texans needed was a real QB and all would be right in Texans land, that bad offensive line play could be overcome by a mobile QB with a strong arm, and now all I hear is excuse after excuse in defense of the one many of you have anointed the messiah.

For now, you have all put out your torches, placed your pitch forks in the shed and replaced all of that criticism of Schaub with excuses for Keenum. Which of course you have to do, or you might look unreasonable right?

And yea before the usual suspects attack me and call me names, attack my character, blaa blaa blaa. Keep in mind I will not lose a wink of sleep, nor will I respect your opinion any more than I do now. So go ahead and fire away. I expect it from the fair weather, majority mob on this board who think their join date, or post count equates to having legitimacy.

But Keenum DID make up for the poor oline play SEVERAL times. Several times he extended a otherwise dead play and not only made a positive out of it...but one time threw a TD out of a broken play.

Well you be the judge.
Schaub in 6 games has thrown 8 tds, and 9 Ints...he's thrown more INTs than TDs and some of those as we know were pick sixes.

Keenum has thrown 0 INTS...soooo there is not much to excuse here. Schaub was contributing to the teams losses...Keenum has not. Sure he has made a bad read here and there or a bad decisions...so does every player...but those bad reads has not led to pick sixes or INTs.

It may seem like a stupid thread but why? Just because Case is undrafted? According to the stats that were put up by SNF, he's had comparable stats to RG3 in his first two games...

So why is this a silly thread? It's only because Luck is #1 draft pick and Keenum is undrafted...it's not by performance...

Luck's first game...
Completion -51.11%
Yds - 309
TDs - 1
INTs - 3
Rushing yds -9


Case's
Completion - 60% (Better)
Yds - 271 (Not bad)
TDs - 1 (even)
INTs - 0 (Better)
Rushing yds - 10 (Meh, they both run when they have to)

Second games...

Luck
Completion - 64.52%
Yds - 224
TDs - 2
INTs - 0
Rushing yds - 21

Case
Completion - 58.8% (Luck's was better here...)
Yds - 350 (But maybe because Case prefers the deep ball)
TDs - 3 ( hard to downplay this)
INTs - 0 (Texans could have used this earlier in the year...)
Rushing yds - 26

So...just forget that Luck was drafted #1 and Case wasn't drafted at all...what makes it such a silly thread?

Until Keenum starts stinking it up I don't see why people can't be excited for him. NFL has had many players get drafted late or go undrafted and become superstars even HOF players...time and time again actually...

So meh, I'm excited about the guy. Made some mistakes to be sure but none that cost the team and was a big reason the team had a good lead on the Colts.

He's proven he's a baller not a scrub...and people are just reacting appropriately...if he starts stinking it up I have no doubt people will be ready to replace him.

EllisUnit
11-04-2013, 07:45 AM
& I don't understand this.

Before Luck took a snap in the NFL, Many of you guys saying it's too soon to compare Keenum & Luck were saying that Luck was better than Schaub, that this will be the Colts division to lose.

& here we are.

The question now, is "Does Keenum even the odds?"

i agree with this, most were putting luck in the HOF before he even took an NFL snap, but now we are premature on saying anything about Keenum after 2 solid NFL starts. Lets ask AJ what he thinks about case ;)

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 07:52 AM
Nitrofish

What were you watching? Keenum outplayed Luck and the stats
show that he did.

No body is making (or needs to make) excuses for a QB who
earned a 123.0 QB rating. When your QB does that, and your
team loses, you look for someone else (or some other(s) )
to blame..

The only thing Luck has over Keenum is a better team, a better
fieldgoal kicker, and a defense that doesn't go keystone cops
with penalties in the 4thQ

Luck also had his offensive coordinator in the second half

What's your beef, did Case steal your lunch money or your girlfriend
or something?

By the way, congrats on proving Godwin's law...

TJ

bOODRO87
11-04-2013, 08:01 AM
I will 2nd the notion that this thread is stupid, and even worse than that is all of you excuse makers for Keenum. Even funnier is someone who says something about being in the minority as if somehow being in the majority makes you right.

The entire German population thought Hitler was great too, and if I am not mistaken, the majority voted for the current POTUS too... TWICE! Just sayin'.

The way I see it, many of you Schaub critics said all the Texans needed was a real QB and all would be right in Texans land, that bad offensive line play could be overcome by a mobile QB with a strong arm, and now all I hear is excuse after excuse in defense of the one many of you have anointed the messiah.

For now, you have all put out your torches, placed your pitch forks in the shed and replaced all of that criticism of Schaub with excuses for Keenum. Which of course you have to do, or you might look unreasonable right?

And yea before the usual suspects attack me and call me names, attack my character, blaa blaa blaa. Keep in mind I will not lose a wink of sleep, nor will I respect your opinion any more than I do now. So go ahead and fire away. I expect it from the fair weather, majority mob on this board who think their join date, or post count equates to having legitimacy.

Goodbye forever, Matt Schaub. That is all. :goodluck:

EllisUnit
11-04-2013, 08:25 AM
I will 2nd the notion that this thread is stupid, and even worse than that is all of you excuse makers for Keenum. Even funnier is someone who says something about being in the minority as if somehow being in the majority makes you right.

The entire German population thought Hitler was great too, and if I am not mistaken, the majority voted for the current POTUS too... TWICE! Just sayin'.

The way I see it, many of you Schaub critics said all the Texans needed was a real QB and all would be right in Texans land, that bad offensive line play could be overcome by a mobile QB with a strong arm, and now all I hear is excuse after excuse in defense of the one many of you have anointed the messiah.

For now, you have all put out your torches, placed your pitch forks in the shed and replaced all of that criticism of Schaub with excuses for Keenum. Which of course you have to do, or you might look unreasonable right?

And yea before the usual suspects attack me and call me names, attack my character, blaa blaa blaa. Keep in mind I will not lose a wink of sleep, nor will I respect your opinion any more than I do now. So go ahead and fire away. I expect it from the fair weather, majority mob on this board who think their join date, or post count equates to having legitimacy.

Actually hitler lost 3 elections, he was then made chancelor by president hindenburg, when president hindenburg died hitler also proclaimed himself head of state. They ran another election in which he he did win although over 4 million people voted against him. Hitler won the election out of fear, then he eliminated all other parties so there could be no opposition. If your going to use history as a reference atleast try to get it some what accurate.

TheIronDuke
11-04-2013, 08:45 AM
Actually hitler lost 3 elections, he was then made chancelor by president hindenburg, when president hindenburg died hitler also proclaimed himself head of state. They ran another election in which he he did win although over 4 million people voted against him. Hitler won the election out of fear, then he eliminated all other parties so there could be no opposition. If your going to use history as a reference atleast try to get it some what accurate.

And then after that the Germans went and bombed Pearl Harbor and we all know where that led.

maddogmrb
11-04-2013, 08:51 AM
For you geniuses who say that Case starts out hot and then gets cold the rest of the game need to realize that Case DOES NOT call his own plays. It is the VERY SAME issue we've had all along with Kubiak's play calling and game plan. As soon as we get a decent lead we turn super conservative.

Case was well on his way to having a game similar to Nick Foles yesterday and then all of a sudden it was like a totally different offense took the field for the Texans and it's because of the conservative play calling. It has killed us throughout the years and now that the team has a QB who can actually execute an aggressive, proactive, keep the foot on the pedal style offense they take it away from him as soon as he gets a decent lead.

Anybody who knows anything about football can see that very clearly and our opponents know dxmn well that they just have to hang in there and be patient and we will let them back into the game.

Uncle Rico
11-04-2013, 08:54 AM
Luck has 10 come from behind wins in his first 2 years. Great QB's will put up W's, good QB'swill put up stats.

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 08:57 AM
Great QB's will put up W's, good QB'swill put up stats.

Like Alex Smith, right? That guy's GREAT!!

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 09:01 AM
Germans bombed the moon..

And then after that the Germans went and bombed Pearl Harbor and we all know where that led.

NCTexan
11-04-2013, 09:18 AM
For you geniuses who say that Case starts out hot and then gets cold the rest of the game need to realize that Case DOES NOT call his own plays. It is the VERY SAME issue we've had all along with Kubiak's play calling and game plan. As soon as we get a decent lead we turn super conservative.

I don't think this happens is Kubiak doesn't go down. I thought he looked like a different coach with his play calls yesterday in the first half.

BullNation4Life
11-04-2013, 09:21 AM
Between fans comparing Keenum to Luck after Keenum has only had 2 NFL starts and NitroTroll using a mass murder into a football analogy, beyond motarded by the way....

This is could get interesting....:popcorn:

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 09:22 AM
I love motards, but then again I am a motorcyclist..


Between fans comparing Keenum to Luck after Keenum has only had 2 NFL starts and NitroTroll using a mass murder into a football analogy, beyond motarded by the way....

This is could get interesting....:popcorn:

Uncle Rico
11-04-2013, 09:52 AM
Like Alex Smith, right? That guy's GREAT!!

Undefeated KC. Playing great prior to injury in SF. Smith can't beat you by himself, but he isn't losing games either. Luck on the other hand will beat you, for comparison Luck had his first game winning drive in his 2nd start. Keenum is a nice prospect, no need to get mad, but he's no Luck, and no Smith for that matter.

HTown2ATX
11-04-2013, 09:55 AM
I think that this (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=houston+eye+doctors&ie=UTF-8&ei=-LR3UvjsPMKCiwKpiIGgCA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg) may help some of the doubters.

This (https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&sa=N&tab=lw&ei=VLZ3Uv_9O-uEiwKxroGABg&ved=0CAQQqS4oAQ#hl=en&q=common+sense+training+houston%2C+tx) one is a little more vague but may help.

:tiphat:

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 10:07 AM
I will 2nd the notion that this thread is stupid, and even worse than that is all of you excuse makers for Keenum. Even funnier is someone who says something about being in the minority as if somehow being in the majority makes you right.

The entire German population thought Hitler was great too, and if I am not mistaken, the majority voted for the current POTUS too... TWICE! Just sayin'.

The way I see it, many of you Schaub critics said all the Texans needed was a real QB and all would be right in Texans land, that bad offensive line play could be overcome by a mobile QB with a strong arm, and now all I hear is excuse after excuse in defense of the one many of you have anointed the messiah.

For now, you have all put out your torches, placed your pitch forks in the shed and replaced all of that criticism of Schaub with excuses for Keenum. Which of course you have to do, or you might look unreasonable right?

And yea before the usual suspects attack me and call me names, attack my character, blaa blaa blaa. Keep in mind I will not lose a wink of sleep, nor will I respect your opinion any more than I do now. So go ahead and fire away. I expect it from the fair weather, majority mob on this board who think their join date, or post count equates to having legitimacy.

No one needs to attack you. The ignorance and foolishness of your own words regarding Keenum do it all by yourself.

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 10:09 AM
I don't think this happens is Kubiak doesn't go down. I thought he looked like a different coach with his play calls yesterday in the first half.

If you know anything about Kubiak's game plan, that whole 2nd half was Kubiak's game plan. There was nothing different about how Kubiak would have called that game. That had KUbiak's name and style written all over it.

NCTexan
11-04-2013, 10:13 AM
If you know anything about Kubiak's game plan, that whole 2nd half was Kubiak's game plan. There was nothing different about how Kubiak would have called that game. That had KUbiak's name and style written all over it.

True, but I don't think he would've called it that way. Look how many plays it took him to call a run in the first half!

Not that I necessarily want Kubiak back next year. But I thought his play calling was completely different in the first half. Maybe it was just having a QB who could make throws and move around though.

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 10:13 AM
Undefeated KC. Playing great prior to injury in SF. Smith can't beat you by himself, but he isn't losing games either. Luck on the other hand will beat you, for comparison Luck had his first game winning drive in his 2nd start. Keenum is a nice prospect, no need to get mad, but he's no Luck, and no Smith for that matter.

Man, do you ever stop and read your own words. You look like a total clown at this point after all of the bashing you did against Keenum before he ever got to start and talked about how stupid everyone else was going to look. He has come into the NFL cold turkey and lit it up on horrible team with horrible coaching. And you're actually saying he is "no Smith" when Smith couldn't even dream about making downfield plays like Keenum has been doing. The fact that you are even trying to compare Keenum to Luck at this point who has had two years now to learn the offense and practice with the starters under a good coaching staff to a practice squad player is dumb as hell especially when Keenum outplayed Luck last night. And then you have the adacity to compare him to Smith and act like he can't even compete with that guy? Lol! You are a total clown.

Uncle Rico
11-04-2013, 10:33 AM
Man, do you ever stop and read your own words. You look like a total clown at this point after all of the bashing you did against Keenum before he ever got to start and talked about how stupid everyone else was going to look. He has come into the NFL cold turkey and lit it up on horrible team with horrible coaching. And you're actually saying he is "no Smith" when Smith couldn't even dream about making downfield plays like Keenum has been doing. The fact that you are even trying to compare Keenum to Luck at this point who has had two years now to learn the offense and practice with the starters under a good coaching staff to a practice squad player is dumb as hell especially when Keenum outplayed Luck last night. And then you have the adacity to compare him to Smith and act like he can't even compete with that guy? Lol! You are a total clown.

Calm down gramps, wouldn't want you having a Kubiak on us. Now, feel free to throw up any post where I have bashed or ridiculed any of you Keenum fan boys because I haven't. From the get go I have taken the cautiously optimistic route, and even today I'm not going to crown a guy the future after 2 games, losses by the way. Go ahead and blame a regime, or a game plan, yawn or whatever is sexy today to blame. Yea keenum has only had 2 weeks to learn this offense, oookay Mr angry over here. What is important to you? Stats or victories? Not moral ones, only losers think that way. Go ahead and proclaim Keenum the next big thing and hopefully you don't come crashing down to earth when the team goes QB in round 1.

"Smith couldn't dream of making the throws my boy crush Keenum could make" LOL you are right, he just wins games. Schaub had sexy stats too.

If keenum is this special player he finds a way to win that game last night, oh but wait he's too young and inexperienced to have that kind of pressure, "he needs more time"

Maybe you should grow a thicker skin? I hate to be the one to break this to you, but Keenum will be under the microscope the remainder of the season, and you will go through many pairs of panties if you cry about every critical comment that gets posted.

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 10:43 AM
Calm down gramps, wouldn't want you having a Kubiak on us. Now, feel free to throw up any post where I have bashed or ridiculed any of you Keenum fan boys because I haven't. From the get go I have taken the cautiously optimistic route, and even today I'm not going to crown a guy the future after 2 games, losses by the way. Go ahead and blame a regime, or a game plan, yawn or whatever is sexy today to blame. Yea keenum has only had 2 weeks to learn this offense, oookay Mr angry over here. What is important to you? Stats or victories? Not moral ones, only losers think that way. Go ahead and proclaim Keenum the next big thing and hopefully you don't come crashing down to earth when the team goes QB in round 1.

Stop your lying. What you've done for weeks is exaggerate what everyone said about Keenum's potential and constantly made it into something else and acted like everyone was saying he would be the next Tom Brady when "NO ONE" ever said that anywhere. You've been one of the main ones that has made conversations difficult because you have constantly taken people's words out of context just to make your pathetic arguments against Keemum seem legit. The fact is that you never paid any attention to Keenum prior to him starting and you just bashed him because he was a 3rd string guy and a Cougar that played for a smaller school. You did all of this while thinking Schaub was the better option, and even in this thread you are still doing the same thing by exaggerating people's enthusiasm when you clearly have an egg on your face.

"Smith couldn't dream of making the throws my boy crush Keenum could make" LOL you are right, he just wins games. Schaub had sexy stats too.

Yes, Smith doesn't throw down the field. He isn't a prolific passer and never has been. He has been benched multiple times in his career and he is winning game with a great defense and a running game. Not with his arm. If you'd actually watched Smith in any season, you'd know this. But clearly you just see wins and feel like whoever is at QB must be responsible for it all and then you sound like some bandwagon listener when you aren't even watching the guy's team play.



Maybe you should grow a thicker skin? I hate to be the one to break this to you, but Keenum will be under the microscope the remainder of the season, and you will go through many pairs of panties if you cry about every critical comment that gets posted.

You haven't figured out yet that you should be embarrassed to even post here at this point after all of the ridiculous criticisms that you threw out at Keenum for weeks and all of the posters you criticized as well and lied on time and time again. Had you just came out at this point and admitted that you were wrong about the kid and that he has shown that he can play, then no big deal. But you're actually back here still trashing this kid and proclaiming Smith as some sort of benchmark? Lol! LIke I said before you are a total clown and you just want Keenum to fail so you can say that you were right.

Uncle Rico
11-04-2013, 10:54 AM
Stop your lying. What you've done for weeks is exaggerate what everyone said about Keenum's potential and constantly made it into something else and acted like everyone was saying he would be the next Tom Brady when "NO ONE" ever said that anywhere. You've been one of the main ones that has made conversations difficult because you have constantly taken people's words out of context just to make your pathetic arguments against Keemum seem legit. The fact is that you never paid any attention to Keenum prior to him starting and you just bashed him because he was a 3rd string guy and a Cougar that played for a smaller school. You did all of this while thinking Schaub was the better option, and even in this thread you are still doing the same thing by exaggerating people's enthusiasm when you clearly have an egg on your face.



Yes, Smith doesn't throw down the field. He isn't a prolific passer and never has been. He has been benched multiple times in his career and he is winning game with a great defense and a running game. Not with his arm. If you'd actually watched Smith in any season, you'd know this. But clearly you just see wins and feel like whoever is at QB must be responsible for it all and then you sound like some bandwagon listener when you aren't even watching the guy's team play.





You haven't figured out yet that you should be embarrassed to even post here at this point after all of the ridiculous criticisms that you threw out at Keenum for weeks and all of the posters you criticized as well and lied on time and time again. Had you just came out at this point and admitted that you were wrong about the kid and that he has shown that he can play, then no big deal. But you're actually back here still trashing this kid and proclaiming Smith as some sort of benchmark? Lol! LIke I said before you are a total clown and you just want Keenum to fail so you can say that you were right.

I don't need to feel validated about being right or wrong on an internet chat board, and again throw up a post where I went out of my way to bash Keenum or his krew, you won't find it just making an ass out of yourself for not being able to control your anger. It's funny. Since my posts are soooo mean and filled with spite just click the ignore button next to my avatar, you won't be the first or last and trust me, you won't hurt my feelings.

EllisUnit
11-04-2013, 11:20 AM
And then after that the Germans went and bombed Pearl Harbor and we all know where that led.

Yeah the komakazi nazis were the worst, then we were forced two A bomb 2 of their fascist nazi cities :kitten:

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 11:20 AM
Smith can't beat you by himself, but he isn't losing games either.

You obviously don't realize how ridiculous you sound. Keenum played great, but not great enough to beat anyone by himself. But he isn't losing games either. Same exact statement applies. But whereas Smith has that badass defense backing him up and a kicker that doesn't miss every other kick, Keenum has crap in those areas, and a suspect (at best) O-Line.

The fact of the matter is the win-loss record has very little to do with how good a QB is directly. A QB's play influences it, but so does the rest of the team. Therefore, you end up with QBs that play well, but the team loses while others play poorly (like Smith) and win. Smith did NOTHING for his team yesterday, but they won. That is not a great QB, that is a great team.

tl;dr = Keenum is a better QB than Smith through the past two games.

Uncle Rico
11-04-2013, 11:29 AM
You obviously don't realize how ridiculous you sound. Keenum played great, but not great enough to beat anyone by himself. But he isn't losing games either. Same exact statement applies. But whereas Smith has that badass defense backing him up and a kicker that doesn't miss every other kick, Keenum has crap in those areas, and a suspect (at best) O-Line.

The fact of the matter is the win-loss record has very little to do with how good a QB is directly. A QB's play influences it, but so does the rest of the team. Therefore, you end up with QBs that play well, but the team loses while others play poorly (like Smith) and win. Smith did NOTHING for his team yesterday, but they won. That is not a great QB, that is a great team.

tl;dr = Keenum is a better QB than Smith through the past two games.


I can respect that, through 2 games Keenum is a better QB than Smith, I can't argue that. At the same time I happen to feel like a QB has to make some plays in the clutch, to win games. Case has shown some skills, I just wish one of those great plays came late in the game and directly influenced a victory.

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 11:35 AM
I don't need to feel validated about being right or wrong on an internet chat board, and again throw up a post where I went out of my way to bash Keenum or his krew, you won't find it just making an ass out of yourself for not being able to control your anger. It's funny. Since my posts are soooo mean and filled with spite just click the ignore button next to my avatar, you won't be the first or last and trust me, you won't hurt my feelings.

Your posts are all over the place dude. LoL! You think I need to go out and find them. I will in some cases, but you have to many for me to even waste my time. You've been one of the biggest Keenum bashers on this site. Hell, I don't think I've seen you discuss anything other subject other then how bad Keenum will look and how disappointed we'll all be if he ever plays. You even said one time that you wanted him to play just so we all could finally see how silly it was to think he ever had a chance.

Well sorry bucko, the game is over. Keenum has played, and he put all of the doubts to rest. He hasn't even thrown any picks and just outplayed Andrew Luck last night. The fact that you still have the nerve to come in here and act like you have a case is mind boggling honestly. The fact that you're even having to compare him to Luck is a compliment in itself to Keenum and yet you can't even comprehend that or make the connection.

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 11:38 AM
I can respect that, through 2 games Keenum is a better QB than Smith, I can't argue that.

But yet you brought up Smith as a benchmark and acted like Keenum couldn't even compare to him and tried to bring up his wins vs. Keenum's losses? Sorry, but that's conflicting arguments all together.

eriadoc
11-04-2013, 11:39 AM
I can respect that, through 2 games Keenum is a better QB than Smith, I can't argue that. At the same time I happen to feel like a QB has to make some plays in the clutch, to win games. Case has shown some skills, I just wish one of those great plays came late in the game and directly influenced a victory.

Well, Case got his team into FG range a few times in the second half. Granted, those aren't TDs, but it's not like he never made any plays in the second half to help his team win. And the inexperience thing is absolutely a valid point, because all players get graded on a scale based on experience. You expect Schaub to be a better QB than Keenum. He's been in the league longer, been a starter longer, and been in the system longer. You expect Smith to be a better QB than Keenum, if you think Smith is a legitimate starting QB. He's been in the NFL as a starter longer and has more experience.

What did Alex Smith do yesterday in the clutch to win that game? The correct answer is he went over to his defense and told them to play better. ;)

I am not and have never been a fan of putting the wins and losses on the QB, because by that measure, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer were great QBs and Rex Grossman took the Bears to the Super Bowl.

Vinny
11-04-2013, 11:42 AM
Smith is a more athletic Matt Schaub.

Dread-Head
11-04-2013, 11:45 AM
That loss didn't look like it was Keenam's fault. He did fine..the kicker however needs an asswhpiing and a pink slip

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 11:46 AM
Smith is a more athletic Matt Schaub.

Pretty much. Smith cannot go down the field and other teams don't have to worry about that with him. He is a total game manager.

Uncle Rico
11-04-2013, 11:49 AM
Your posts are all over the place dude. LoL! You think I need to go out and find them. I will in some cases, but you have to many for me to even waste my time. You've been one of the biggest Keenum bashers on this site. Hell, I don't think I've seen you discuss anything other subject other then how bad Keenum will look and how disappointed we'll all be if he ever plays. Hat You even said one time that you wanted him to play just so we all could finally see how silly it was to think he ever had a chance.

Well sorry bucko, the game is ovem has played, and he put all of the doubts to rest. He hasn't even thrown any picks and just outplayed Andrew Luck last night. The fact that you still have the nerve to come in here and act like you have a case is mind boggling honestly. The fact that you're even having to compare him to Luck is a complimen t in itself to Keenum and yet you can't even comprehend that or make the connection.

You're a liar, simple as that. You got mad at my comment and lumped me into Keenum Haters Club, and nothing is further from the truth. Like I've maintained throughout, I'm not gonna get emotionally invested until he proves he can win games, stats don't tell the complete story.

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 11:51 AM
You're a liar, simple as that. You got mad at my comment and lumped me into Keenum Haters Club, and nothing is further from the truth. Like I've maintained throughout, I'm not gonna get emotionally invested until he proves he can win games, stats don't tell the complete story.

I'm a liar but in this very thread you're acting like Keenum wasn't impressive because he didn't win the game in the clutch and saying that he's no Alex Smith? Lol! Dude, you're just comical at this point.

Go ahead and make another long winded post about how he doesn't have the arm strength for the NFL some more or another fictitious claim that everyone thinks he is the next Tom Brady.

HOU-TEX
11-04-2013, 11:55 AM
Smith is a more athletic Matt Schaub.

A three toed sloth is more athletic than Schaub

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3581/3364458262_af44d867f3_z.jpg

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 11:59 AM
Just heard something on the radio akin to:

"keenum has the highest quarterback rating in NFL history when
considering only a QB's first two starts..."

He will definitely struggle at some point, but to say he hasn't
hit the ground running is an understatement..

Don't know if it's true, but if it is -- impressive for a guy that
no one gave two chits of a thought about in the draft..

TJ

maddogmrb
11-04-2013, 12:43 PM
I don't think this happens is Kubiak doesn't go down. I thought he looked like a different coach with his play calls yesterday in the first half.

I saw it already happening in the 2nd quarter long before Kubes went down.

maddogmrb
11-04-2013, 12:44 PM
If you know anything about Kubiak's game plan, that whole 2nd half was Kubiak's game plan. There was nothing different about how Kubiak would have called that game. That had KUbiak's name and style written all over it.

Exactly!

ThaJokaa
11-04-2013, 12:56 PM
If you know anything about Kubiak's game plan, that whole 2nd half was Kubiak's game plan. There was nothing different about how Kubiak would have called that game. That had KUbiak's name and style written all over it.

Actually he has clearly stated that he only plans the 1st 15/20 plays of each half

ArlingtonTexan
11-04-2013, 01:16 PM
Actually he has clearly stated that he only plans the 1st 15/20 plays of each half

I believe that he means that stylewise this was Texans have a lead so we are largely going to run the ball with some play action passing, not that Kubes would run these exact plays versus what exact plays that Dennison ran

ThaJokaa
11-04-2013, 01:39 PM
I think he calls it different, just a feeling...

Double Barrel
11-04-2013, 02:12 PM
Calm down gramps, wouldn't want you having a Kubiak on us.

Trying to be funny while the coach is still in the hospital?

Seriously one of the most classless statements made in this forum, and that says a lot after a decade of existence.

Mr teX
11-04-2013, 02:33 PM
people need to calm down...Keenum didn't outplay luck...hell both guys played about the same when you consider the totality of the circumstances they had to deal with.

Keenum:
- lost Foster at the beginning of the game but we still ran it pretty good with Tate & Johnson....
-Fat Randy & ST didn't have a good day, but they actually did prevent Indy from scoring 3 early with the FG block.
-The defense was actually damn good until the 2nd half started
-I'm not putting too much into Kubiak thing. anyone who has watched this team over the years knows that they did what they always do when they have a lead...try to run clock & get conservative.

Luck:
-didn't have his main guy Reggie Wayne & it clearly effected the offense...Also lost his #2 WR Heyward-Bey in the middle of the game too.
-He basically had no run game to speak of
-& his o-line was terrible for most of the night. a number of the plays he made came within a split second of Watt or some other defender knocking the piss out of him.
-he also had a few drops

The ref calls were a draw..both teams had bad calls against them.


Keenum made most of his plays early in the 1st half, Luck made most of his late in the 2nd half.

If you take away the last drive where keenum tacked on 30 more passing yards their stats look about the same.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 02:39 PM
>people need to calm down...Keenum didn't outplay luck...hell both guys played about the same when you consider the totality of the circumstances they had to deal with.


So you're saying an UDFA in only his second start with two offensive
starters missing and no head coach in the second half played about
the same as the undisputed "second coming" of Peyton Manning who
is in his second year playing in the same offensive system and starting
both years?

Ok.. I'll take that..
TJ

Mr.Scarface
11-04-2013, 02:43 PM
What you all should want is Kubiak to be back coaching as soon as possible. Why? Say what you want about Kubiak, he can groom a QB and maximize his strengths. Schaub never had a big arm, so underneath and playaction was his strengths. Keenum has a different skill set that allows Kubiak to exploit his fearlessness and deep ball touch. Keenum had skills, but Kubiak has tuned them, in about a year and half, for the pro game. If Keenum can continue to grow as the starter for the rest of this year, it will help the team hit the ground running next year.

For Kubiak, it is a kid with a new toy. Once you realize how good it is, you never want to put it down.

Vance87
11-04-2013, 02:43 PM
If you take away the last drive where keenum tacked on 30 more passing yards their stats look about the same.

You mean take away the last drive where he drove us down the field with 30 seconds and no timeouts to give our stupid fat FG kicker a chance to tie the game? OK.

speedfreek
11-04-2013, 02:46 PM
This is exactly what I have been trying to put into words today.
And why I am super depressed that Gary may have had a
"coaching career" ending stroke..

TJ


What you all should want is Kubiak to be back coaching as soon as possible. Why? Say what you want about Kubiak, he can groom a QB and maximize his strengths. Schaub never had a big arm, so underneath and playaction was his strengths. Keenum has a different skill set that allows Kubiak to exploit his fearlessness and deep ball touch. Keenum had skills, but Kubiak has tuned them, in about a year and half, for the pro game. If Keenum can continue to grow as the starter for the rest of this year, it will help the team hit the ground running next year.

For Kubiak, it is a kid with a new toy. Once you realize how good it is, you never want to put it down.

Mr teX
11-04-2013, 02:58 PM
>people need to calm down...Keenum didn't outplay luck...hell both guys played about the same when you consider the totality of the circumstances they had to deal with.


So you're saying an UDFA in only his second start with two offensive
starters missing and no head coach in the second half played about
the same as the undisputed "second coming" of Peyton Manning who
is in his second year playing in the same offensive system and starting
both years?

Ok.. I'll take that..
TJ

Draft status & hype have 0 to do with it. Keenum doesn't get extra points b/c he wasn't drafted...Even though Keenum's been in the league for 2 years & running the same system like Luck too.

All things considered, we all should be happy he went toe to toe with 1 of the best young qb's in the game.

Exascor
11-04-2013, 03:03 PM
Draft status & hype have 0 to do with it. Keenum doesn't get extra points b/c he wasn't drafted...Even though Keenum's been in the league for 2 years & running the same system like Luck too.

All things considered, we all should be happy he went toe to toe with 1 of the best young qb's in the game.Of course Keenum gets "extra points" for being undrafted vs the #1 pick in the draft. Seriously...read that again. Undrafted vs 1st pick in the draft.

Also, can you really equate Luck who ran this same Colts offense while in Stanford to Keenum who didn't get first team reps in this offense until 3 days before his first start?

Mr teX
11-04-2013, 03:04 PM
You mean take away the last drive where he drove us down the field with 30 seconds and no timeouts to give our stupid fat FG kicker a chance to tie the game? OK.

you only take it away b/c luck wouldn't have had a chance to respond b/c it was the final drive of the game...besides, lots of qb's good & bad can do what he did that last drive.... all he did was complete 2 short passes for a total of 30 yards that moved us in range for a long 55 yard fg....& that would've only tied it.

drs23
11-04-2013, 03:18 PM
I will 2nd the notion that this thread is stupid, and even worse than that is all of you excuse makers for Keenum. Even funnier is someone who says something about being in the minority as if somehow being in the majority makes you right.

The entire German population thought Hitler was great too, and if I am not mistaken, the majority voted for the current POTUS too... TWICE! Just sayin'.

The way I see it, many of you Schaub critics said all the Texans needed was a real QB and all would be right in Texans land, that bad offensive line play could be overcome by a mobile QB with a strong arm, and now all I hear is excuse after excuse in defense of the one many of you have anointed the messiah.

For now, you have all put out your torches, placed your pitch forks in the shed and replaced all of that criticism of Schaub with excuses for Keenum. Which of course you have to do, or you might look unreasonable right?

And yea before the usual suspects attack me and call me names, attack my character, blaa blaa blaa. Keep in mind I will not lose a wink of sleep, nor will I respect your opinion any more than I do now. So go ahead and fire away. I expect it from the fair weather, majority mob on this board who think their join date, or post count equates to having legitimacy.

I won't attack you or your character nor your right to post as you please. I understand you're a Matt guy and that's cool. I was a staunch Matt supporter as well but there came a time when his play just became indefensible and that time happens to coincide with his meltdown which started last year. I didn't follow Keenum's collegiate career but had certainly heard the name. I'm not here to anoint him the Team Savior and I had my doubts but no one can legitimately deny that Case Keenum played his first two games against two of the top teams the AFC has to offer and presented very well. If he keeps progressing I see no reason that he can't rise with the cream. He's got my full support from here on out. I feel badly for Schaub. On the sidelines all night, wearing his little helmet the whole time just waiting... I never really thought much about him not being that verbal leader on the sidelines but I really chubbed at seeing Case working the team, on both sides of the ball. You could, at least I could tell the whole team was excited to be a part of what was happening. I watched as JJ Watt's frown and scowls from the last several games replaced with smiles and excitement. How long has it been since you've saw AJ giddy as a kid at christmas? Just a few of the clues that the team is behind him and has fully accepted and bought in. If they can then why can't we? Or perhaps more specifically, Fish, you?

Case could of course, flame out and I think there are a few on here that would revelle in it. I hope he continues to ascend and is mentioned in the same breath with Arian Foster as UDFA "finds" that the Texans are able to "uncover".

All of this is just my opinion but I'm excited to watch and hope #7 continues to grow and become the greatest UDFA QB to ever pull on a jockstrap.

Go Texans!

Mr teX
11-04-2013, 03:41 PM
Of course Keenum gets "extra points" for being undrafted vs the #1 pick in the draft. Seriously...read that again. Undrafted vs 1st pick in the draft.

Also, can you really equate Luck who ran this same Colts offense while in Stanford to Keenum who didn't get first team reps in this offense until 3 days before his first start?

Dude, all the shotgun we've been running since he has been starting....2 zone read plays yesterday... a number of the passing plays he's been running are all things he did at UofH.....or are a close derivative of things he did there. They are purposely designed or implemented into our gameplan to make him feel comfy...ultimately, both guys are getting/got some form of home cooking.

The circumstances by which they came into the league don't matter when the goal for both is the same..1 guy came into the league ready to play, another came into the league and needed a year to develop before he was ready...doesn't matter in the end...if you can play, you can play & some guys need time to develop before they can play on this level...Do you think Keenum could've come in as a rookie & did what Luck did? If not, then we should give extra credit to Luck for being able to do that b/c alot of players (let alone qbs) can't do that....no matter where they were taken.

At the end of the day draft status will hardly be part of the narrative if they wind up matching up against each other in the years to come...if Keenum continues to develop that is & neither guy gets a career ending injury.

The question is, will you still be giving Keenum extra credit if he continues to ascend in the future b/c he's an undrafted FA every time he matches up against a qb who was drafted?.....which will be pretty much every qb he faces going forward.

What about making extra excuses up for him b/c he's an undrafted FA if he begins to slump in the future?

klockWork
11-04-2013, 03:44 PM
Two games into it, what do you think? Case Keenum or Andrew Luck?

Is there a purgatory section to throw this thread somewhere?

Vance87
11-04-2013, 03:46 PM
you only take it away b/c luck wouldn't have had a chance to respond b/c it was the final drive of the game...besides, lots of qb's good & bad can do what he did that last drive.... all he did was complete 2 short passes for a total of 30 yards that moved us in range for a long 55 yard fg....& that would've only tied it.

Everything after "besides" is worthless.

Mr teX
11-04-2013, 04:01 PM
Everything after "besides" is worthless.

yeah b/c no 1st or 2nd string qb in the NFL could complete 2 passes for 30 yards and move his team just inside fg range.....:rolleyes:

drs23
11-04-2013, 04:04 PM
yeah b/c no 1st or 2nd string qb in the NFL could complete 2 passes for 30 yards and move his team just inside fg range.....:rolleyes:

I'm not so convinced this kicker has a "fg range".

Exascor
11-04-2013, 04:05 PM
The circumstances by which they came into the league don't matter when the goal for both is the same..1 guy came into the league ready to play, another came into the league and needed a year to develop before he was ready...doesn't matter in the end...if you can play, you can play & some guys need time to develop before they can play on this level...Do you think Keenum could've come in as a rookie & did what Luck did? If not, then we should give extra credit to Luck for being able to do that b/c alot of players (let alone qbs) can't do that....no matter where they were taken.

At the end of the day draft status will hardly be part of the narrative if they wind up matching up against each other in the years to come...if Keenum continues to develop that is & neither guy gets a career ending injury.

The question is, will you still be giving Keenum extra credit if he continues to ascend in the future b/c he's an undrafted FA every time he matches up against a qb who was drafted?.....which will be pretty much every qb he faces going forward.

What about making extra excuses up for him b/c he's an undrafted FA if he begins to slump in the future?Ever heard of the term "underdog"? Keenum is the underdog right now. He gets "extra credit" when things go good. He gets more forgiveness when things go bad. It's the same thing as when a rookie makes a great play it's "look at what that rookie was able to do" or when it's bad it's a "rookie" mistake. Will/should it last? No. Is Keenum as good as Luck right now? Too soon to compare. You are right though. The bottom line goal is to win. Next year, Keenum doesn't get the same treatment. He may have to compete with someone for a starting job. He'll be judged on a more level playing field.

For this year though...undrafted free agent, inactive for EVERY game since he's been in the league, that nobody thought would EVER start just had the BEST QB rating in their first 2 starts for a QB in NFL history. That, is unbelievable.

ziggy29
11-04-2013, 04:06 PM
The question is, will you still be giving Keenum extra credit if he continues to ascend in the future b/c he's an undrafted FA every time he matches up against a qb who was drafted?.....which will be pretty much every qb he faces going forward.

What about making extra excuses up for him b/c he's an undrafted FA if he begins to slump in the future?

At some point, draft status stops mattering. Exhibit A: JaMarcus Russell. Exhibit B: Kurt Warner. Heck, even Tom Brady (aka St. Tom the Perfect to the football media) was a 6th round pick.

If Warner had a bad game well into his career, people wouldn't be bringing up his status as a UDFA who came up as an Arena player and a grocery clerk after college.

Mr teX
11-04-2013, 04:24 PM
At some point, draft status stops mattering. Exhibit A: JaMarcus Russell. Exhibit B: Kurt Warner. Heck, even Tom Brady (aka St. Tom the Perfect to the football media) was a 6th round pick.

If Warner had a bad game well into his career, people wouldn't be bringing up his status as a UDFA who came up as an Arena player and a grocery clerk after college.

Yeah....Warner's story to me is literally the NFL version of hitting the lottery. I mean at least Keenum had all the passing stats & records coming out of college that people can point to. Nothing about Warner coming out of college could've foreshadowed what he wound up doing in the NFL. The guy was 3rd string on a division II college team until his sr. year for crying out loud!

His story is so improbable, if someone told you about it before it actually happened, you'd think they were telling you about an upcoming movie instead of a guy's actual career.

Porky
11-04-2013, 04:54 PM
I tried this a few weeks back, didn't go over to well. But Andrew Luck has yet to impress me. Like Schaub, he needs every part of his team to be working extremely well to keep it close & give them a chance.

Today is not that day. We've got problems of our own, nuy keenum is shining like a mother.

Two games into it, what do you think? Case Keenum or Andrew Luck?

Isn't April Fools in the spring?

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 06:34 PM
If you know anything about Kubiak's game plan, that whole 2nd half was Kubiak's game plan. There was nothing different about how Kubiak would have called that game. That had KUbiak's name and style written all over it.

I'm thinking this is the reason Wade Phillips defense appears to trail off in their 2nd & 3rd seasons.

Season 1, nobody expects anything spectacular. Offense plays to score on every down. Year two, the HC believes he can punt more often, play the field position game. Year three, we go sign the best punter in the league, try to improve the field position game & play more not to lose than we had in the past.

& Wade's smallish front line, pressure defense, man coverage just can't maintain the perceived level of greatness if they don't have the QB in a must throw, pressured to score game.

This game against Indy looked just like the Seattle game. 1st half was ours, we dominated on both sides of the ball. 2nd half, even though I don't think the offense was scaled back, I don't think the play calling changed much, converting on third downs was approached with a lower sense of urgency, because the defense was playing well.

& they just couldn't maintain. They did fine in the 3rd qtr, but in the 4th when it seemed like we took it down another level on third down, they allowed what 21 points?

I know special teams is a joke & they've become our scapegoat, but our offense needs to do a better job of scoring in the second half & our defense needs to do a better job of preventing 2nd half scores.

& our kicker needs to be replaced.

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 06:38 PM
Luck:
-didn't have his main guy Reggie Wayne & it clearly effected the offense...Also lost his #2 WR Heyward-Bey in the middle of the game too.


Kareem Jackson don't play.

TexansBull
11-04-2013, 06:55 PM
I saw it already happening in the 2nd quarter long before Kubes went down.

Was that before or after AJ's 3rd touchdown?

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

ziggy29
11-04-2013, 07:01 PM
I know special teams is a joke & they've become our scapegoat, but our offense needs to do a better job of scoring in the second half & our defense needs to do a better job of preventing 2nd half scores.


Against NFL-caliber opponents, you can almost never decide to let your offense quit after one half. Too many three-and-outs or short possessions and even a strong defense will get tired from being on the field way too long.

We've seen that in a LOT of Texans games in the entire Kubiak era. How many times has a dominant first half been followed up by a second half where the Texans were still the better team? I'll be honest -- I can't think of a single example.

fiasco west
11-04-2013, 07:09 PM
I'm thinking this is the reason Wade Phillips defense appears to trail off in their 2nd & 3rd seasons.

Season 1, nobody expects anything spectacular. Offense plays to score on every down. Year two, the HC believes he can punt more often, play the field position game. Year three, we go sign the best punter in the league, try to improve the field position game & play more not to lose than we had in the past.

& Wade's smallish front line, pressure defense, man coverage just can't maintain the perceived level of greatness if they don't have the QB in a must throw, pressured to score game.

This game against Indy looked just like the Seattle game. 1st half was ours, we dominated on both sides of the ball. 2nd half, even though I don't think the offense was scaled back, I don't think the play calling changed much, converting on third downs was approached with a lower sense of urgency, because the defense was playing well.

& they just couldn't maintain. They did fine in the 3rd qtr, but in the 4th when it seemed like we took it down another level on third down, they allowed what 21 points?

I know special teams is a joke & they've become our scapegoat, but our offense needs to do a better job of scoring in the second half & our defense needs to do a better job of preventing 2nd half scores.

& our kicker needs to be replaced.

I'm surprised that no one is really talking about how disappointing the defense has been this year. It seems people just brush it off and put all the blame on the offense, but if your defense is supposed to be so good you don't let another team score TD after TD to get the lead.

That's why I'm fine with total clean. Wade's defenses have a history of regressing and we even see it in game that teams adjust see what Wade is doing and there is never a adjustment back. At some point during the Colts come back the defense has to make a play, make a big stop.

Pretty sure most DC, great players will say that the offense put up enough points to win that game.

Of course they could have always put up more and that would have been nice but the blame goes all around for me.

Dishman
11-04-2013, 07:10 PM
Against NFL-caliber opponents, you can almost never decide to let your offense quit after one half. Too many three-and-outs or short possessions and even a strong defense will get tired from being on the field way too long.

We've seen that in a LOT of Texans games in the entire Kubiak era. How many times has a dominant first half been followed up by a second half where the Texans were still the better team? I'll be honest -- I can't think of a single example.

The team under Kubiak has been notorious for NOT playing all 4 quarters. The Pats vs. Steelers game was a good example over the weekend of why an offense can't let up. The Steelers kept clawing back against the Pats to the extent that that Pats had to score something like 55 points to win.

ziggy29
11-04-2013, 07:17 PM
That's why I'm fine with total clean. Wade's defenses have a history of regressing and we even see it in game that teams adjust see what Wade is doing and there is never a adjustment back. At some point during the Colts come back the defense has to make a play, make a big stop.

I agree to a point. But these Kubiak-era Texans have always had the same tendency: When you dominate the first half, you let up in the second half. Your offense goes vanilla, stops doing what was working in the first half (or fails to adjust to the opponent's adjustments) and three-and-outs too much.

We're not talking about a Top 10 college team against a weak FCS team. This is the NFL and there's much more parity in terms of talent (yes, even the Jaguars and Bucs). You can let almost any team back in the game by playing "not to lose". My point here is.... would Wade's defense be a problem in a second half with a big lead if the offense kept doing what was working in the first half? If not, how much of that is Wade's fault?

(That said, I like Wade as a DC but he's a terrible head coach. He's a perfect example of the Peter Principle.)

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 07:53 PM
Against NFL-caliber opponents, you can almost never decide to let your offense quit after one half. Too many three-and-outs or short possessions and even a strong defense will get tired from being on the field way too long.


That's nothing new. There's a difference between quitting & playing for field position & there's nothing wrong with playing for field position if you're built for it... & we are. We need to be able to run the ball when they know we're going to run the ball.

Of course in a game when it isn't working, your starting running back left the game, your back up has 4 broken ribs, & your third string guy was signed off someone else's practice squad two weeks ago, you call a better game.

Play to your strengths, & throw the ball. & while Keenum made some big plays in the two TE, two back sets, the offense looked much better with 3 & 4 WRs.


We've seen that in a LOT of Texans games in the entire Kubiak era. How many times has a dominant first half been followed up by a second half where the Texans were still the better team? I'll be honest -- I can't think of a single example.

Exception to the rule & all, but the one year Ben Tate lived up to his draft status, we did what we wanted all year long. That game plan got Tj Yates into the play-offs & won a play off game.

We don't have that now... but someone at Reliant thinks we do.

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 07:58 PM
Play to your strengths, & throw the ball. & while Keenum made some big plays in the two TE, two back sets, the offense looked much better with 3 & 4 WRs.


With that in mind. I saw at least one snap where Graham started in the backfield, but was later motioned out to the slot.

I thought that was due to the fact that our RBs aren't up to snuff at the moment. But, I thought that would be a nice wrinkle in our offense. I'd never hand the ball off to him, but we can use him for protection & as a receiver out of the backfield.

Or even Greg Jones. When we've got 4 receivers, we need someone back there who can pick up the blitz & if Arian is going to be questionable the rest of the year, we've either got to get DJ or Karim up to speed on blitz pick-ups, or use Greg Jones/Byrne/Graham.

76Texan
11-04-2013, 08:20 PM
ST gave the Colts the ball at their 42 to start the half.
The Colts only gained 26 yards on that drive, to the Texans 32.
Ed Reed then committed the stupid penalty on third and six on an incompletion.
Instead of a 50-yd FG try, the Colts got a 35-yd cheap shot.

ST and Reed cost the Texans 3 points here.

The Texans then got the ball at their 13.
They had to march 62 yards to earn a 43-yd FG by Bullock.
A false start on Graham and a 2-yd loss by Tate also hurt the drive.

The Colts got the ball at their 22 and marched downfield to the Texans 20.
On third and 5, Sharpton was called for that penalty on yet another incompletion by Luck.

Instead of a FG, the Colts ended up with a TD.

The Texans then go 55 yards (starting at their 20) before Bullock missed the 43-yarder.
ST team failed again.

The Colts then got the ball at their 33 due to the missed FG try; they needed only 2 plays to score.

Defense failed.

With 9:46 to go, the Texans got the ball at their 20.
On third and seven, the ref robbed the Texans of a third down conversion
when they reverse the catch by AJ.

Lechler then punted the ball for 19 yards to give the Colts the ball at their 48.
ST failed again.

The Colts scored and tacked on the 2-point conversion.
Defense failed.

The offense then failed for the first time when the Colts had the perfect D calls on 3 consecutive play (after a 25-yd completion to AJ.)
It looked like the Colts knew exactly what the Texans were about to run.

Lechler punted the ball with the Colts calling fair catch at their 16.
They burned all the Texans time-outs before punting.

Martin returned it for 20 yards, but a holding call on Mack brought the ball back to the Texans 33; the Texans would have had the ball in Colts territory, on the 47yd line or so.
ST failed again.

With 44 seconds left, the Texans managed 4 plays (including the spike) for 30 yards before the last missed by Bullock.

Tell me where the problems lie?

maddogmrb
11-04-2013, 11:31 PM
Was that before or after AJ's 3rd touchdown?

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

After ... thank you :)

If you didn't see it, then you weren't paying attention.

HJam72
11-05-2013, 09:40 AM
Tell me where the problems lie?

Fire Marciano & Randy Bullock....in the offseason (we need high picks).

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 10:27 AM
I'm surprised that no one is really talking about how disappointing the defense has been this year. It seems people just brush it off and put all the blame on the offense, but if your defense is supposed to be so good you don't let another team score TD after TD to get the lead.

That's why I'm fine with total clean. Wade's defenses have a history of regressing and we even see it in game that teams adjust see what Wade is doing and there is never a adjustment back. At some point during the Colts come back the defense has to make a play, make a big stop.

Pretty sure most DC, great players will say that the offense put up enough points to win that game.

Of course they could have always put up more and that would have been nice but the blame goes all around for me.

I agree. The bleating herd saying "no. 1 defense" is merely putting sprinkles on a dog turd. It's not a brownie. It's poo..with sprinkles on it.

18 points should be a lead that a so-called "no. 1 defense" can protect. Instead, they let the Colts catch up fairly easy.

But really, like you mentioned, this is nothing new with Wade. His history repeats itself over and over again. He gets the benefit of the doubt because of his family ties to this city, but any other DC would be fair game to criticize for the same results.

Nitrofish
12-16-2013, 10:40 AM
Reading this thread again after the 2nd loss to the Colts is hilarious.

thunderkyss
12-16-2013, 11:22 AM
Reading this thread again after the 2nd loss to the Colts is hilarious.

NO doubt.

What seemed promising at one time.... seems like a waste of time now.

But when it's all said & done, we're looking for a QB that can put this team on the level that Luck has his team. If we're going to win the division ever again, we're going to need a QB that this team believes in like that team does.

santo
12-16-2013, 11:28 AM
NO doubt.

What seemed promising at one time.... seems like a waste of time now.

But when it's all said & done, we're looking for a QB that can put this team on the level that Luck has his team. If we're going to win the division ever again, we're going to need a QB that this team believes in like that team does.


It will be interesting to see how Luck does against the Chiefs. Still don't think the Colts will make it far, but if they get the right opponents in the playoffs, they may make it to the AFC Championship game.

MistaRed
12-16-2013, 11:42 AM
Is this a real thread?

Uncle Rico
12-16-2013, 03:15 PM
This thread is so awkwardly painful. I just learned about the Dunning-Kruger Effect the other day, and this is a real life representation of that.

Bless your hearts.

Runner
12-16-2013, 03:45 PM
The homerism was strong in this one.

TEXANRED
12-16-2013, 03:47 PM
The homerism was strong in this one.

Nope, the Vodka flowed strongly through this one.

2012Champs
12-16-2013, 03:52 PM
0 wins vs 20 wins