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Playoffs
11-03-2013, 09:52 AM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/labaleine/lemon/scratchhead2.gif http://themaresnest.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/scratchhead.gif

Martin headed for NFI list, may never return to the Dolphins (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/03/martin-headed-for-nfi-list-may-never-return-to-the-dolphins/)

The situation involving Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin continues to get more and more bizarre.

In the wake of the Dolphins issuing an “all is well” statement, it’s clear that all isn’t well. According to Ian Rapoport of NFL Network, Martin will be placed on the non-football illness list as soon as Tuesday. Per Rapoport, Martin doesn’t feel comfortable returning to the team “unless the situation changes drastically in the Dolphins locker room.”

So Martin hasn’t complained of bullying, but he thinks things need to change dramatically in order to return to the team?
Then there’s the question of whether the NFLPA is or isn’t investigating the situation. NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith has called the situation a “major priority,” and subsequent reports indicated that an investigation was occurring. According to Adam Schefter of ESPN the probe initially focused on guard Richie Incognito.
...
To add even more confusion to an already confusing situation, Rapoport says that “the NFLPA has not launched an investigation” but the union is in “information gathering mode.”

How is that different than an investigation?

jaayteetx
11-03-2013, 09:56 AM
Not surprised at all Ingognito is involved, what a first class asshat.

Lucky
11-03-2013, 10:01 AM
I'm still trying to understand how a NFL offensive lineman can be bullied?

robroy72
11-03-2013, 10:40 AM
I'm still trying to understand how a NFL offensive lineman can be bullied?

Have you watched Derek Newton this season? :kitten:

IDEXAN
11-03-2013, 10:46 AM
I'm still trying to understand how a NFL offensive lineman can be bullied?
Yes, the whole situation is really very silly isn't it. But I won't be at all surprised if we see a piece on the nightly national news soon suggesting there should be sensitivity training for NFL players re their interactions with both opponents and teammates. The NFL is definitely in full-blown wussification mode
and we are headed full speed towards touch football.

Playoffs
11-03-2013, 11:04 AM
I'm still trying to understand how a NFL offensive lineman can be bullied?

Bullying isn't always about size. And it's evidently a tactic around the league to bring out the fight in a player. I believe Prince Amukamara was bullied for two seasons, but says he runs with the "in group" on the Giants now -- which begs the question, if there's an "in" group then who's not a part of the "cool kids gang" and how does that hurt/help the team?

Dutchrudder
11-03-2013, 11:04 AM
I heard it has something to do with a prank that went too far, but I don't know the details of it. I'd like to hear what it is all about.

Playoffs
11-03-2013, 11:41 AM
I heard it has something to do with a prank that went too far, but I don't know the details of it. I'd like to hear what it is all about.

Yeah, every party is being so mysterious about all this it piques my curiosity. Incognito being investigated, then saying he & Martin are cool. NFLPA saying we're not investigating, just doing an inquiry...? And Miami putting a starting OT on the non-football injury/illness list? They need all hands on deck on their O-line. Matin's own cryptic tweets. It's all very... :hmmm:

chicagotexan2
11-03-2013, 05:39 PM
Did someone order a code red or did a full metal jacket blanket party? Hopefully it's not a truly serious issue.

Vance87
11-03-2013, 05:50 PM
Ninja shoulda broke Incognito's ankle when he had the chance.

TexansSeminole
11-03-2013, 07:08 PM
Ninja shoulda broke Incognito's ankle when he had the chance.

Except it was the there way around.

CretorFrigg
11-03-2013, 11:51 PM
Fox Sports said that Martin left the team after a pattern of bullying against him. The Sun-Sentinel said Martin left because of emotional issues, not bullying. But ESPN had a detailed report that Incognito had intimidated Martin. ESPN said, among other things, Incognito pressured Martin into contributing $15,000 toward a trip by the linemen to Las Vegas, a trip Martin didn't go on. The report said Martin feared retribution from Incognito and that's why he didn't immediately file a formal complaint. Mike Garafolo reported for Fox Sports that Incognito left messages for Martin that were "threatening and racially charged." Martin's representatives did eventually inform the team of "player misconduct" on Sunday.

So apparently here are the details...

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/dolphins-suspend-guard-richie-incognito-nfl-investigates-claims-045206231--nfl.html

Blake
11-04-2013, 07:33 AM
Incogneto temp suspended from team for conduct detrimental to team per ESPN.

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 07:39 AM
The Miami Dolphins have suspended starting guard Richie Incognito for conduct detrimental to the team.

Incognito was being reviewed by the Dolphins, the NFL and the NFL Players Association for harassment of teammate Jonathan Martin, who left the team last week following a lunchroom incident.

"The Miami Dolphins have suspended Richie Incognito for conduct detrimental to the team," the team said in a statement released late Sunday night. "We believe in maintaining a culture of respect for one another and as a result we believe this decision is in the best interest of the organization at this time. As we noted earlier, we reached out to the NFL to conduct an objective and thorough review. We will continue to work with the league on this matter."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9924206/miami-dolphins-suspend-richie-incognito-indefinitely-connection-jonathan-martin-incident
*********
Really surprising, and I'd think unprecidented and probably points to the heart of the matter which is that Incognito has more issues than Martin. But the fact that the 'Phins couldn't handle this situation internally is what's most surprising to me ? Damn Coach, you let this get into the media and now the league is involved.
I've got 2 remaining questions now: (1) when does somebody play the race card here, and (2) with this incident, how totally wussified has the NFL become ?

NCTexan
11-04-2013, 08:04 AM
maining questions now: (1) when does somebody play the race card here, and (2) with this incident, how totally wussified has the NFL become ?

Well considering he supposedly left "threatening and racially charged" messages on Martin's voice mail according to the Fox link above, I think Incognito brought race into it.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 08:04 AM
Who would've guessed Incognito was a racist douchebag bully??? :hmmm:

http://sitracking.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/smith.jpg

Irony is he was on Miami's Player Leadership Council.

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 08:24 AM
Well considering he supposedly left "threatening and racially charged" messages on Martin's voice mail according to the Fox link above, I think Incognito brought race into it.
Frankly I'm very surprised Cooper is still on the Eagles team after his episode, so if a white player like Incognito is making explicit racial remarks, comments, threats, etc directly towards a black teammate, then I'm even more surprised the white guy is in south FLA this long, no matter how talented or how valuable he might be on the 'Phins team.

HOU-TEX
11-04-2013, 08:55 AM
I tweeted Richie (lol) after the latest incident with Smith saying "karma's a *****".

I won't be satisfied until this dude's completely done in this league. He's a true definition of a POS.

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 08:56 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9924206/miami-dolphins-suspend-richie-incognito-indefinitely-connection-jonathan-martin-incident
*********
Really surprising, and I'd think unprecidented and probably points to the heart of the matter which is that Incognito has more issues than Martin. But the fact that the 'Phins couldn't handle this situation internally is what's most surprising to me ? Damn Coach, you let this get into the media and now the league is involved.
I've got 2 remaining questions now: (1) when does somebody play the race card here, and (2) with this incident, how totally wussified has the NFL become ?

I can't believe that after these details have come out, you STILL think this is a case of being a wuss.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 08:58 AM
Incognito went on a Twitter rampage yesterday trying to shout-down his critics...

@espn shame on you for attaching my name to false speculation. I won't be holding my breathe for an apology
@AdamSchefter Enough is enough If you or any of the agents you sound off for have a problem with me, you know where to find me #BRINGIT
@AdamSchefter Stop slandering my name. You hide behind "sources" who are not man enough to put their name behind the BS you report
@espn @CBSSports @NBCSports @FOXSports @ProFootballTalk I want my name CLEARED
— Richie incognito (@68INCOGNITO) November 3, 2013

I guess all of the sports media should expect to now be poked in the eyes and have their ankles twisted at the bottom of a pile. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/tantrum.gif

Mike Golic said there's definitely something more than just using rookie's to pay for dinners/trips going on for the team to suspend Incognito. Martin is in his second year.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 09:47 AM
Rare to see Tony Dungy speak out...

During last night’s edition of Football Night in America on NBC, former Patriots V.P. of player personnel and Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli told Dan Patrick, ”I didn’t want [Incognito] coming out [of college], and I don’t want him now.”

Former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy echoed that sentiment earlier in the hour on The Dan Patrick Show. Dungy explained that, when Incognito entered the draft in 2005, the Colts had him on the “DNDC” list, which means “do not draft because of character.”

...and I found this comment buried over on PFT:
Nov 4, 2013 8:22 AM
Antonio Smith deserves his first game check back and an apology from the league.:ahhaha:

RazorOye
11-04-2013, 10:09 AM
Is this a case of the apple not falling far from the tree?

from deadspin:

Is Richie Incognito's Dad Blasting Jonathan Martin On Message Boards? (http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230)

Even Dolphins fans seem somewhat fed up with Incognito, who can't seem to avoid trouble off the field and is one of the league's dirtiest players on it. But on a popular Dolphins message board, Incognito has at least one strident defender—and it might be his dad.

Early this morning, a poster with the username "idrd1994" left an impassioned defense of Incognito on the FinHeaven message board. In it, he attacked both Martin and Mike Pouncey as "black brothers that do drugs on a regular basis," and asked readers to "pray [GM Jeff] Ireland and [coach Joe] Philbin die of AIDS." He blasts the team from top to bottom, claims Incognito is getting railroaded, and uses the "black people say the N-word in rap music" argument to dismiss claims that Incognito sent racial messages to Martin. He also implies that Martin has pondered suicide, and "does not belong in an NFL locker room."

some of the evidence a user used to propose the possible connection:

User "TheWalrus" decided to go back and look at idrd1994's post history, and found something interesting. idrd1994 "only talks about the offensive line, praises Jeff Darlington (who Richie 'trusted' to write the big feature on Richie) and constantly refers to Jason Smith, the legendary #2 overall draft pick bust of the Rams, who was taken when Incognito was there."

Then, more sleuthwork. TheWalrus found another post of idrd1994's where he talks about growing up in New Jersey and watching the Jets play at Shea Stadium. Richie Incognito was born in New Jersey, but after the Jets had already moved. Not too young to have seen the Jets play in Queens? Richie Incognito Sr., an active poster (under a different name) on Nebraska message boards when Richie Jr. played for the Huskers.

A Google search for "idrd1994" turns up a number of posts on RC car message boards, from a user claiming to live in Arizona—where the Incognitos moved when Richie Jr. was 11. "idrd1994" is also a profile on MyLife.com, registered under one Richie Incognito, age 63, from Glendale, Ariz.

Update: Adam Beasley of the Miami Herald spoke to the FinsHeaven board administrator. idrd1994 registered with a date of birth of 12/14/1949, which matches Richie Incognito Sr.'s birthday.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 10:28 AM
Seems to clearly be Richie's daddy posting this stuff:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195b7o509fmjqpng/original.png (http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195b7o509fmjqpng/original.png)<--click for larger

NFLPA IS NOT TOUCHING THIS WITH A TEN FOOT POLE. It will come out, Martin has tried to kill himself three previous times. The team is silent because they all know about it, from Ross on down to Ireland and Philbin. If anybody has seen the latest news the NFLPA has decided not to look into the case. Jonathan Martin has had mental issues since College, it will all come out int he wash gentleman, believe me.
On Nov. 3, after Incognito was suspended,

This is a joke, suspend an honest player for a drug addict and a player that tried to kill himself three times. Complete ****in utter BS and this team is just covering their ass. What a friggin joke. Strange only coments are from Zuckerman and not Martin himself. Irleand and Philbin should be ashamed of themselves, this is a ****in joke. Suspend a pro bowl player for a player that does not even belong in the NFL. FUKIN JOKE its all going to come out in the wash and Ireland should be ****in hung because he , philbin and everyone else knew Martin did drugs and attempted suicide three times. But hey, the regular people will never hear that right ? ****IN JOKE FOLKS, ****IN JOKE.
Late last night:

Incognito will look good in a Jets uniform beating the piss out of our defensive line in a few weeks. Watch, learn , and we will have ? Jonahtan Martin, draft bust, drug addict and on suicide watch, what a team. LMFAO.

This is one classy fella. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm241farmer.gif Perhaps daddy Incognito needs to be sent to the same mental ward that his son was sent to in Topeka for behavioral training? Calling out Philbin because his son committed suicide... WTF? Praying Head Coach Joe Philbin and GM Jeff Ireland die of AIDs?

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 10:30 AM
I can't believe that after these details have come out, you STILL think this is a case of being a wuss.
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 10:44 AM
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.
The "I-played-football-and-you-didn't-so-I'm-right-and-you're-wrong card."

Seriously?

Most of us who have never played football know that it's brutal, and that these guys aren't sitting around having a tea party and eating cookies. This is a rough, brutal sport, and it takes a thick skin. We know that.

But, there's a line. And it appears that this Igconito guy may have crossed the line. There is a massive difference between giving rookies crazy hair cuts and making them sing songs in the cafeteria and shaking them down for $15k for vacations and $30k for meals.

Also, rookie salaries aren't what they used to be, and making them pay outrageous bills for the veterans is absurd.

We knock professional athletes for blowing all of their money, but situations like this don't help.

Also: bullying is mental. If Incognito had a crew within the locker room that ganged up on players - and if it was clear that Igcognito's crew were not to be messed with - that doesn't leave a lot of room for someone to refuse to play along.

steelbtexan
11-04-2013, 10:51 AM
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.

Repped

Great post

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 10:54 AM
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.

I'm sure Jonathan Martin has been hazed and gone through all the dude bro crap football players go through in high school and college, so he's used to it. Sounds like Incognito took it to a whole new level, which is NOT okay. Incognito has a bad rep in this league, and this is a league full of tough son-of-a-B dude bros who can both give and take some ****.

It's no longer about proving one's manhood and football prowess when someone makes it personal and makes threats or racial comments. That's way out of bounds. Just because football is a rough and tumble sport it doesn't mean that anyone should just suck it up and be a victim to someone with Incognito's obvious nasty streak.

Incognito is a dirt bag and Martin isn't a wuss because he broke down after what appears to be systematic abuse at Incognito's hands. I think Miami let things get too far, and there's a bit more there of veterans taking advanage of the younger players to foot huge dinner bills and what not. Just because the culture of hazing is there doesn't mean that when taken to its extremes it should still be accepted because it's just "part of the game." That's a cop out that just perpetuates poor behavior.

RazorOye
11-04-2013, 10:56 AM
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.

I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.

While I appreciate the gentlemanly salutation, and I think it's mighty white of you to do so, you didn't make a point at all related to the topic that seems to be at the core of this.

And that's not Martin's 'wussiness' and the insistence on pushing topics of race anticipation and the wussification of the NFL.

Your post said you peaked in an unremarkable college career. So how in the world do you understand what would be going on in a Dolphins NFL locker room? Using yourself as the referent and then arriving at a conclusion based on such a faulty premise surely leads to a faulty conclusion, no?

Instead of going after the party that appears to be a demanding, imposing bully with a track record of less-than-stellar acts on and off the field and a history of bullying others (once bullied himself) who might also be a racist - you're going after the victim and psychoanalyzing.

To what end?

The wussification of the NFL? Preemptive marginalization of a potentially legitimate issue (racism) before we even know any details?

To compare your locker room to his and your bullying experience to his strikes me as a misstep out of the posting gates, conceptually. After that, the comparison (and righteousness) just got worse. I think basing psychoanalysis using such flimsy criteria isn't the most constructive way to go about marginalizing Martin.

The entire post just looked like an end around for some strutting, chestthumping machismo that adds nothing to the thread, in tone or content. And I think it takes some measure of courage to come out the way he has. I don't think you really understand the scope and variety of bullying - I know I don't. And I've seen all sorts of types in all sorts of contexts. I don't see how anyone can label his actions as cowardly or wussy. He had a lot to risk by bringing this to light, acting as he did. I'm not going to valorize him as a hero, but I don't think he's nearly as frail or sheepish as you do.

If this gets Incognito out of the league, renders him an untouchable - I think maybe the league is better off.

I think talking about his actions and the systems that actively/passively supported it are also worth talking about. These seem to be the bigger issues.

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 10:57 AM
I'm sure Jonathan Martin has been hazed and gone through all the dude bro crap football players go through in high school and college, so he's used to it. Sounds like Incognito took it to a whole new level, which is NOT okay. Incognito has a bad rep in this league, and this is a league full of tough son-of-a-B dude bros who can both give and take some ****.

It's no longer about proving one's manhood and football prowess when someone makes it personal and makes threats or racial comments. That's way out of bounds. Just because football is a rough and tumble sport it doesn't mean that anyone should just suck it up and be a victim to someone with Incognito's obvious nasty streak.

Incognito is a dirt bag and Martin isn't a wuss because he broke down after what appears to be systematic abuse at Incognito's hands. I think Miami let things get too far, and there's a bit more there of veterans taking advanage of the younger players to foot huge dinner bills and what not. Just because the culture of hazing is there doesn't mean that when taken to its extremes it should still be accepted because it's just "part of the game." That's a cop out that just perpetuates poor behavior.

Repped.

Great post.

This was extortion and a shakedown.

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 11:05 AM
It's no longer about proving one's manhood and football prowess when someone makes it personal and makes threats or racial comments. That's way out of bounds.
Frankly I'm very surprised Cooper is still on the Eagles team after his episode, so if a white player like Incognito is making explicit racial remarks, comments, threats, etc directly towards a black teammate, then I'm even more surprised the white guy is in south FLA this long, no matter how talented or how valuable he might be on the 'Phins team.
*****
That's what I already said some 2 hours earlier in this thread before your comment here about race. It is the RED LINE in the NFL for players, most especially for a white player. Incognito should have been gone a long, long time ago if he went racist on Martin or any other black member of the 'Phins.

2012Champs
11-04-2013, 11:15 AM
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.




A shake down for money or racial attacks shouldnt be allowed no matter where you work. Best for a college flame out to avoid giving career advice to a NFL pro

2012Champs
11-04-2013, 11:17 AM
While I appreciate the gentlemanly salutation, and I think it's mighty white of you to do so, you didn't make a point at all related to the topic that seems to be at the core of this.

And that's not Martin's 'wussiness' and the insistence on pushing topics of race anticipation and the wussification of the NFL.

Your post said you peaked in an unremarkable college career. So how in the world do you understand what would be going on in a Dolphins NFL locker room? Using yourself as the referent and then arriving at a conclusion based on such a faulty premise surely leads to a faulty conclusion, no?

Instead of going after the party that appears to be a demanding, imposing bully with a track record of less-than-stellar acts on and off the field and a history of bullying others (once bullied himself) who might also be a racist - you're going after the victim and psychoanalyzing.

To what end?

The wussification of the NFL? Preemptive marginalization of a potentially legitimate issue (racism) before we even know any details?

To compare your locker room to his and your bullying experience to his strikes me as a misstep out of the posting gates, conceptually. After that, the comparison (and righteousness) just got worse. I think basing psychoanalysis using such flimsy criteria isn't the most constructive way to go about marginalizing Martin.

The entire post just looked like an end around for some strutting, chestthumping machismo that adds nothing to the thread, in tone or content. And I think it takes some measure of courage to come out the way he has. I don't think you really understand the scope and variety of bullying - I know I don't. And I've seen all sorts of types in all sorts of contexts. I don't see how anyone can label his actions as cowardly or wussy. He had a lot to risk by bringing this to light, acting as he did. I'm not going to valorize him as a hero, but I don't think he's nearly as frail or sheepish as you do.

If this gets Incognito out of the league, renders him an untouchable - I think maybe the league is better off.

I think talking about his actions and the systems that actively/passively supported it are also worth talking about. These seem to be the bigger issues.





:goodpost:

Dread-Head
11-04-2013, 11:18 AM
Ninja shoulda broke Incognito's ankle when he had the chance.



Incognito= Romanowski 2.0

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 11:22 AM
A shake down for money or racial attacks shouldnt be allowed no matter where you work. Best for a college flame out to avoid giving career advice to a NFL pro

Agree.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, extortion does not have to have follow-through in order for it to be illegal. In other words, I think the mere threat of harm if a person does not comply is illegal.

So, someone saying, "If you don't put up $15k for us to travel to Las Vegas, you will regret it," would be considered illegal. The threat itself is illegal.

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 11:28 AM
But, there's a line. And it appears that this Igconito guy may have crossed the line. There is a massive difference between giving rookies crazy hair cuts and making them sing songs in the cafeteria and shaking them down for $15k for vacations and $30k for meals.


Do you honestly buy that about the shakedown baloney ? If it was in fact true, if we are really talking here about bribery or blackmail, then Martin should have called the Law. Right ?
Incognio has been in the league for some 10 years, and Martin is probably the umptenth younger player he's jacked around with, but just the first to succumb to the will of an intimidator like Incognito. You know bullys are predators, they look for the most vulnerable among them and when they find him they don't relent until the victim stands his ground.

The1ApplePie
11-04-2013, 11:30 AM
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.

From my own high school experience, guys like Cooper and Incognitio would get a 50-person boot party thrown for them. Bonus points if the rest of the roster tried to push a vending machine on top of them

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 11:31 AM
Do you honestly buy that about the shakedown baloney ? If it was in fact true, if we are really talking here about bribery or blackmail, then Martin should have called the Law. Right ?
Incognio has been in the league for some 10 years, and Martin is probably the umptenth younger player he's jacked around with, but just the first to succumb to the will of an intimidator like Incognito. You know bullys are predators, they look for the most vulnerable among them and when they find him they don't relent until the victim stands his ground.

1) Yes, I do believe it.

2) You're missing the point. Martin was AFRAID to call the law. Incognito and his crew probably had him terrified of his own freaking shadow. Why do you think Martin gave $15k for a group vacation for a trip he DIDN'T EVEN GO ON? Do you really think Martin decided, out of the goodness of his heart, to give $15k towards a vacation for people he didn't even like? You really think that? For him, in the moment, it was probably easier to pay these clowns off than to fight them, so he wrote a check.

You are blaming the victim and being dense.

jaayteetx
11-04-2013, 11:32 AM
Seems to clearly be Richie's daddy posting this stuff:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195b7o509fmjqpng/original.png (http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195b7o509fmjqpng/original.png)<--click for larger





This is one classy fella. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm241farmer.gif Perhaps daddy Incognito needs to be sent to the same mental ward that his son was sent to in Topeka for behavioral training? Calling out Philbin because his son committed suicide... WTF? Praying Head Coach Joe Philbin and GM Jeff Ireland die of AIDs?

Looks like the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree...no wonder.

2012Champs
11-04-2013, 11:34 AM
Do you honestly buy that about the shakedown baloney ? If it was in fact true, if we are really talking here about bribery or blackmail, then Martin should have called the Law. Right ?
Incognio has been in the league for some 10 years, and Martin is probably the umptenth younger player he's jacked around with, but just the first to succumb to the will of an intimidator like Incognito. You know bullys are predators, they look for the most vulnerable among them and when they find him they don't relent until the victim stands his ground.



I often give people 15k just so they can go on vacation.

toronto
11-04-2013, 11:35 AM
Do you honestly buy that about the shakedown baloney ? If it was in fact true, if we are really talking here about bribery or blackmail, then Martin should have called the Law. Right ?
Incognio has been in the league for some 10 years, and Martin is probably the umptenth younger player he's jacked around with, but just the first to succumb to the will of an intimidator like Incognito. You know bullys are predators, they look for the most vulnerable among them and when they find him they don't relent until the victim stands his ground.

Schefter tweets suggest Ingognito is a serious *********

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1m
NFL has heard Richie Incognito's VM to Jonathan Martin. Dolphins have heard the voice mail.
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4m
1: Richie Incognito left this VM for Jonathan Martin in April 2013: "Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of (expletive)...
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
2. More Incognito to Martin: "I saw you on Twitter, you been training ten weeks. (I want to) (expletive) in your (expl) mouth....
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
3. Incognito VM to Martin: "(I'm going to) slap your (expletive) mouth. (I'm going to) slap your real mother across the face (laughter).
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m
4. Incognito to Martin, all on same VM in April 2013: "(Expletive) you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 11:35 AM
Do you honestly buy that about the shakedown baloney ? If it was in fact true, if we are really talking here about bribery or blackmail, then Martin should have called the Law. Right ?
Incognio has been in the league for some 10 years, and Martin is probably the umptenth younger player he's jacked around with, but just the first to succumb to the will of an intimidator like Incognito. You know bullys are predators, they look for the most vulnerable among them and when they find him they don't relent until the victim stands his ground.

He IS standing his ground.

This ain't no school playground. This is PROFESSIONAL football, the NFL is a billion-dollar enterprise, and Martin is getting the NFL and NFLPA officials involved, as is the proper procedure to follow.

What did you want Martin to do? Beat Incognito up in the parking lot after practice? Is that how I should deal with people who irritate me at work? Push away from my desk, rouse them out of their office and say "after work, in the parking lot, come at me bro!"?

PROFESSIONAL. FOOTBALL. LEAGUE.

2012Champs
11-04-2013, 11:38 AM
Schefter tweets suggest Ingognito is a serious *********

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1m
NFL has heard Richie Incognito's VM to Jonathan Martin. Dolphins have heard the voice mail.
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4m
1: Richie Incognito left this VM for Jonathan Martin in April 2013: "Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of (expletive)...
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
2. More Incognito to Martin: "I saw you on Twitter, you been training ten weeks. (I want to) (expletive) in your (expl) mouth....
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
3. Incognito VM to Martin: "(I'm going to) slap your (expletive) mouth. (I'm going to) slap your real mother across the face (laughter).
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m
4. Incognito to Martin, all on same VM in April 2013: "(Expletive) you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."





Well Ingognito might just be misunderstood

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 11:43 AM
He IS standing his ground.

This ain't no school playground. This is PROFESSIONAL football, the NFL is a billion-dollar enterprise, and Martin is getting the NFL and NFLPA officials involved, as is the proper procedure to follow.

What did you want Martin to do? Beat Incognito up in the parking lot after practice? Is that how I should deal with people who irritate me at work? Push away from my desk, rouse them out of their office and say "after work, in the parking lot, come at me bro!"?

PROFESSIONAL. FOOTBALL. LEAGUE.
He left the team ! He freaking physically left Miami, left South FLA, left the
entire state of FLA according to reports. That is not standing one's ground.

toronto
11-04-2013, 11:43 AM
Well Ingognito might just be misunderstood

true.

He could have insuated many things when he wanted to slap the kids mom.

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 11:44 AM
Schefter tweets suggest Ingognito is a serious *********

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1m
NFL has heard Richie Incognito's VM to Jonathan Martin. Dolphins have heard the voice mail.
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4m
1: Richie Incognito left this VM for Jonathan Martin in April 2013: "Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of (expletive)...
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
2. More Incognito to Martin: "I saw you on Twitter, you been training ten weeks. (I want to) (expletive) in your (expl) mouth....
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
3. Incognito VM to Martin: "(I'm going to) slap your (expletive) mouth. (I'm going to) slap your real mother across the face (laughter).
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m
4. Incognito to Martin, all on same VM in April 2013: "(Expletive) you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."
Welcome to the thread Canada, but we've already covered race, just take a couple minutes to review the earlier posts if you would.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 11:46 AM
While I appreciate the gentlemanly salutation, and I think it's mighty white of you to do so, you didn't make a point at all related to the topic that seems to be at the core of this...[snipped for space]
I think talking about his actions and the systems that actively/passively supported it are also worth talking about. These seem to be the bigger issues.

Exactly.
*********************
According to CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora, Incognito sent Martin a number of threatening text messages and voice mails, one of which referred to Martin as a "half-n*gg*r."
...

And here's some of what Incognito sent to Martin, as transcribed by Adam Schefter:

1: Richie Incognito left this VM for Jonathan Martin in April 2013: "Hey, wassup, you half n——- piece of (expletive)...

2. More Incognito to Martin: "I saw you on Twitter, you been training ten weeks. (I want to) (expletive) in your (expl) mouth....

3. Incognito VM to Martin: "(I'm going to) slap your (expletive) mouth. (I'm going to) slap your real mother across the face (laughter).

]4. Incognito to Martin, all on same VM in April 2013: "(Expletive) you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."
— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) November 4, 2013

2012Champs
11-04-2013, 11:46 AM
Welcome to the thread Canada, but we've already covered race, just take a couple minutes to review the earlier posts if you would.



the ones where you sound like a fool? Yeah we are up to speed already


fwiw all those vm werent all about race

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 11:47 AM
He left the team ! He freaking physically left Miami, left South FLA, left the
entire state of FLA according to reports. That is not standing one's ground.

Shaking my head.

He is standing his ground. He is saying enough, and he is getting this all out in the open. You wanted Martin to punch Ignognito in the locker room. Again: Incognito probably has an army of players he controls. You can't fight that.

The good news here is that Martin will win and Incognito will lose. Take a read of the voice mails, when you get a chance...

Texn4life
11-04-2013, 11:49 AM
When I read so much stupid in a thread I swear it makes my head hurt. This is a classic case of a dumb, racist prick thinking he can pick on the weak dude in the group and get away with it. This type of crap doesn't go on in locker rooms. No white player would resort to these tactics knowing they'll be crucified in the locker room. He saw a guy who he could intimidate and took advantage of it. I've been in locker rooms all my life and most of the hazing is all in fun. The stuff coming out here has nothing to do with that. Incognito doesn't deserve to wear an NFL uniform for many reasons. This is just the tip of the iceberg for me.

Dutchrudder
11-04-2013, 11:51 AM
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.

Negged.

Terrible post.

toronto
11-04-2013, 11:55 AM
Welcome to the thread Canada, but we've already covered race, just take a couple minutes to review the earlier posts if you would.

Didn't see this posted and it seemed quite relevant to the thread, so thanks anyways. When I want board ettiquette, forgive me but you're the last person I'll ask.

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 11:57 AM
Incognito probably has an army of players he controls. You can't fight that.


Given the demos of NFL teams in 2013, I think it's a real reach to suggest a white guy could control an "army" of guys in an NFL locker room in a hassle with another player who's black.

2012Champs
11-04-2013, 11:57 AM
Didn't see this posted and it seemed quite relevant to the thread, so thanks anyways. When I want board ettiquette, forgive me but you're the last person I'll ask.


zing

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 11:58 AM
Negged.

Terrible post.

I read this in Charles Barkley's voice.

Texn4life
11-04-2013, 12:02 PM
Negged.

Terrible post.

Yeah, it might be the longest, worst post that I've ever read. Its one thing to be wrong, but its another thing to throw out the card he did in the beginning and say all of that ridiculousness afterwards. Anyone who is blaming Martin and not Incognito at this point is just stupid. Martin's only fault is he should have told someone sooner about the situation.

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 12:04 PM
Given the demos of NFL teams in 2013, I think it's a real reach to suggest a white guy could control an "army" of guys in an NFL locker room in a hassle with another player who's black.

How do you know some of the players within Igcognito's crew weren't black? Stupid comes in all colors.

You think Martin is weak. That's your opinion. I think Martin is much, much smarter than Igcognito. Instead of punching him in the face - which is what you wanted Martin to do - Martin simply saved texts and emails.

Martin lost a lot of battles, but, guess who is going to win the war?

Scooter
11-04-2013, 12:04 PM
adam schefter looked like he was having trouble controlling himself when talking about the situation, he's pissed and probably knows more than he's ready to say. incognito is a mentally unstable, rage fueled d-bag. always has been. always will be. he should've been kicked out of the league by his 3rd season, same for suh. this isnt about tying a rookie to a goalpost, or a random fight, or standard locker room hazing which does get a lot further than the public realizes. this is one insane guy going after a teammate in an excessively over the line manner - including threatening to kill him. martin did what anyone would've done. the only quiet recourse he would've had is something more violent than just a fist fight, because that wouldnt have stopped anything. he wasnt getting any help from the locker room or coaches. he wasnt going say anything, because it's bad form to speak out like that and people would label him a wuss if he did, and probably would've just made things worse. he tried to get away from the situation without making waves or making himself an even bigger target, which is all he really could do.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 12:07 PM
Let's for a minute speculate that Jonathan Martin does have psychological issues and has attempted suicide...

and Richie Incognito somehow found out about Martin's attempt to kill himself -- and subsequently shared that personal and sensitive information with his father who has now shared it with the world (http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230)...

that might be characterized as bullying, no? Whaddaya gonna do, rookie? Kill yourself, again?

adam schefter looked like he was having trouble controlling himself when talking about the situation, he's pissed and probably knows more than he's ready to say...

Incognito called him out and attacked him on Twitter.

toronto
11-04-2013, 12:10 PM
LOL at my incompetence. For the first time in my posting 'career' here, was going to neg rep...and I ended up giving him pos rep.

I rock.

Texn4life
11-04-2013, 12:17 PM
LOL at my incompetence. For the first time in my posting 'career' here, was going to neg rep...and I ended up giving him pos rep.

I rock.

Unacceptable...... I'm gonna slap you in the mouth and find your whole family and F them up.

rmartin65
11-04-2013, 12:20 PM
LOL at my incompetence. For the first time in my posting 'career' here, was going to neg rep...and I ended up giving him pos rep.

I rock.

Ha, that sucks dude. I got him for you though.

toronto
11-04-2013, 12:26 PM
Ha, that sucks dude. I got him for you though.

repped!

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Not a fan of negative reps, but, man, I'm tempted today...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 12:44 PM
How do you know some of the players within Igcognito's crew weren't black? Stupid comes in all colors.

You think Martin is weak. That's your opinion. I think Martin is much, much smarter than Igcognito. Instead of punching him in the face - which is what you wanted Martin to do - Martin simply saved texts and emails.

Martin lost a lot of battles, but, guess who is going to win the war?
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.

rmartin65
11-04-2013, 12:47 PM
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.

This is a terrible line of thinking.

For example, I assume that you have never been President. Thus, by your line of thinking, you cannot criticize or praise him.

toronto
11-04-2013, 12:53 PM
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.

The only thing that got a rise out of me was you attempting to teach me any board ettiquette. The fact that you are who you are I could care less about. You clearly enjoy being a complete jerk. But I can't comment further on that because I don't have much insight on this.

RazorOye
11-04-2013, 12:59 PM
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.

I've played football.

And that experience offers precisely zero credibility or lucidity to the string of inanity that constitutes your contributions to this thread. You came in playing the race card early (yes, the "I wonder when race will be brought into this" is a race card). You came in, posing as some authority on football and locker rooms and bullying and psychology and Jonathan Martin, deigning to lecture us as if you're speaking from some position of knowledge.

You aren't.

You wanted to make this a "OMG RACISM! PC RUN AMOK!" post, as per your wont. It didn't even become one (when it easily could have, considering the information that's come out) and you kept pressing it. Pulling the pin and replacing the pin aren't the same act. Then you wanted to make this a "OMG WUSSIFICATION OF FOOTBALL! PC RUN AMOK!" by targeting Martin, all the while deflecting or ignoring the elefante incógnito in the room (in your defense, judging by the name, he can be hard to see).

And nothing that has come out could remotely move the dial toward anything you've brought up.

But that doesn't stop you from doubling down.

Keep acting, though, that a couple of years of mediocre college ball gives you some sort of expertise in what's happening here, in all of its fluid dynamism.

Because the agenda comes first.

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 01:00 PM
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.

No one is angry that you expressed your opinion; we are just saying that your opinion is DUMB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

RazorOye
11-04-2013, 01:13 PM
Shaking my head.

He is standing his ground. He is saying enough, and he is getting this all out in the open. You wanted Martin to punch Ignognito in the locker room. Again: Incognito probably has an army of players he controls. You can't fight that.

The good news here is that Martin will win and Incognito will lose. Take a read of the voice mails, when you get a chance...

I really don't know how anyone can look at these events objectively and come to a conclusion other than Martin standing his ground. I don't think IDEXAN has ever really been bullied in the same way as Martin if he can't come up with an experience where he was so bullied that he wasn't able to stand up for himself and against the bully except by removing himself from the context of the harassment to a place that's safe to do so.

With the existing dynamic and nature of the harassment and abuse, I think Martin's tact makes a lot of sense (more to lose, less to gain by staying within the hierarchy that constitutes the MIA locker room... a fact that our resident locker room expert should easily realize). And, in the end, it looks like he might be accomplishing a great deal.

Just as there are many different examples of bullying, there are many different examples of one standing his ground. Just because they don't match up with the exact, precise boundaries IDEXAN is drawing, doesn't mean they don't exist. They do. To me it looks like bullying and it looks like standing one's ground.

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 01:24 PM
LOL at my incompetence. For the first time in my posting 'career' here, was going to neg rep...and I ended up giving him pos rep.

I rock.

You neg repped me once when I think you were trying to pos rep me. Canadians. SIGH.

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 01:25 PM
I've played football.

And that experience offers precisely zero credibility or lucidity to the string of inanity that constitutes your contributions to this thread. You came in playing the race card early (yes, the "I wonder when race will be brought into this" is a race card). You came in, posing as some authority on football and locker rooms and bullying and psychology and Jonathan Martin, deigning to lecture us as if you're speaking from some position of knowledge.

You aren't.

You wanted to make this a "OMG RACISM! PC RUN AMOK!" post, as per your wont. It didn't even become one (when it easily could have, considering the information that's come out) and you kept pressing it. Pulling the pin and replacing the pin aren't the same act. Then you wanted to make this a "OMG WUSSIFICATION OF FOOTBALL! PC RUN AMOK!" by targeting Martin, all the while deflecting or ignoring the elefante incógnito in the room (in your defense, judging by the name, he can be hard to see).

And nothing that has come out could remotely move the dial toward anything you've brought up.

But that doesn't stop you from doubling down.

Keep acting, though, that a couple of years of mediocre college ball gives you some sort of expertise in what's happening here, in all of its fluid dynamism.

Because the agenda comes first.

I want to have the sex with this post.

toronto
11-04-2013, 01:26 PM
You neg repped me once when I think you were trying to pos rep me. Canadians. SIGH.

when the heck did I do that and why didn't a lightning bolt hit me? us commie pinkos, I swear.

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 01:29 PM
when the heck did I do that and why didn't a lightning bolt hit me? us commie pinkos, I swear.

I figured you were probably drunk on Molson and poutine after a long day of moose hunting.

toronto
11-04-2013, 01:31 PM
I figured you were probably drunk on Molson and poutine after a long day of moose hunting.

Someone forgot I hate guns :) :bat: Oh, and we have kick ass beer up here, not that swill you mention.

HOU-TEX
11-04-2013, 01:31 PM
LOL at my incompetence. For the first time in my posting 'career' here, was going to neg rep...and I ended up giving him pos rep.

I rock.

lol. Rock on

FWIW, I played a lot of ball too. I witnessed a lot of harassing, hazing and all out brawls amongst teammates, but nothing out of the ordinary for what guys typically do.

That said, from what I've read this asshat took it waaay beyond typical hazing and locker room shenanigans. The transcript of the VM is very disturbing to say the least. Not only would I ban this dude, I'd press charges

The only thing I'd fault Martin with is keeping this to himself and not informing his employer. Maybe he did and the Phins thought it'd work itself out, who knows

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 01:38 PM
...To me it looks like bullying and it looks like standing one's ground.

Yep. Who's Martin going to go to, the Dolphins' Player Council...?

Oh, wait, Incognito is a member of the Player's Council. Whether it actually is or not, Martin had every expectation that this was an institutional problem and acted accordingly.

Double Barrel
11-04-2013, 01:40 PM
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as blah blah blah.

Except for the fact that, you know, those that have played pro football - both as players, coaches, and both - are coming out against Incognito's actions and behavior.

So what are you going to say to those guys? Especially since your zero experience in a pro locker room means your opinions are worthless....according to your own illogical perspective...

HOU-TEX
11-04-2013, 02:02 PM
Except for the fact that, you know, those that have played pro football - both as players, coaches, and both - are coming out against Incognito's actions and behavior.

So what are you going to say to those guys? Especially since your zero experience in a pro locker room means your opinions are worthless....according to your own illogical perspective...

QFT!

Man, I've been trying to Rep you so much lately I'm beginning to feel like I'm stalking you. Ha, my thought process is waay too similar to yours. Except your words express them much better than mine.

Ok, sorry for the :grouphug: amidst such a manly thread. Carry on..

Dan B.
11-04-2013, 02:02 PM
NOBODY calls Idexan a chicken

http://25.media.tumblr.com/810ec692027d134fa9debdd86653f758/tumblr_mlm1jwqU8Y1s89kbpo1_500.gif

RazorOye
11-04-2013, 02:04 PM
if you're here and interested in hearing what a credentialed football player has to say/think on this issue (perhaps because the established 'expertise' offered thus far doesn't somehow measure up and has left you wanting/wondering), gannon had this bit on sirius earlier:

4 and a half minutes that builds to his experiences with the dyfunction with the Raiders, in their locker room

interesting perspective

http://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/rich-gannon-co-host-of-the-4

and it seems that he arrives at a different conclusion than our current, resident authority.

Strange, that.

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 02:05 PM
Except for the fact that, you know, those that have played pro football - both as players, coaches, and both - are coming out against Incognito's actions and behavior.

So what are you going to say to those guys? Especially since your zero experience in a pro locker room means your opinions are worthless....according to your own illogical perspective...

LOL.

Exactly.

Dread-Head
11-04-2013, 02:06 PM
This is a joke, suspend an honest player for a drug addict and a player that tried to kill himself three times. Complete ****in utter BS and this team is just covering their ass. What a friggin joke. Strange only coments are from Zuckerman and not Martin himself. Irleand and Philbin should be ashamed of themselves, this is a ****in joke. Suspend a pro bowl player for a player that does not even belong in the NFL. FUKIN JOKE its all going to come out in the wash and Ireland should be ****in hung because he , philbin and everyone else knew Martin did drugs and attempted suicide three times. But hey, the regular people will never hear that right ? ****IN JOKE FOLKS, ****IN JOKE

While this is NOT something I broadcast, this butthole has forced me out of the closet. In 1998 I found everything to be utterly black. I'd given up all hope and tried to remove myself from the face of the earth. I LITERALLY could see no reason to live. I hope neither Mr. Ignognito nor his microscopic DCIK of a dad never know what that's like, but it's nice to know that he's of the opinion that anyone who isn't him or his son should be lying dead somewhere. I pitty this imbecile and his a-hole son. If karma does exist I hope they both encounter someone who treats them the way they treat the world.

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 02:16 PM
While this is NOT something I broadcast, this butthole has forced me out of the closet. In 1998 I found everything to be utterly black. I'd given up all hope and tried to remove myself from the face of the earth. I LITERALLY could see no reason to live. I hope neither Mr. Ignognito nor his microscopic DCIK of a dad never know what that's like, but it's nice to know that he's of the opinion that anyone who isn't him or his son should be lying dead somewhere. I pitty this imbecile and his a-hole son. If karma does exist I hope they both encounter someone who treats them the way they treat the world.

Dread,

Glad to hear that you were able to find your way out of the darkness. A lot of people have had trouble with anxiety/depression. I have had periods of anxiety, as have a lot of my friends. In fact, I was just telling a buddy yesterday about the one time I had a panic attack. (I had been laid off from my job, and the bank was being difficult about restructuring my mortgage).

I openly advocate that people should see a psychologist or psycharist if they are feeling down. There is no shame in it, and it can be helpful.

Remember when Ron Artest won the title with the Lakers a few years back? He thanked his therapist. He'd been dealing with a lot of issues for years, and said having a therapist helped him.

The Incognito's are trash. Pure and simple.

Honoring Earl 34
11-04-2013, 02:17 PM
Battle of the message board dads .

idrd1994 vs QB75

As far as playing football goes , I played some . I've seen some hazing and it was egged on by the coaches sometimes . The freshman vs the juniors was always a fight . We used to box against them with two mouth pieces between 50 guys . What did this accomplish , nothing .

In my opinion Icognito knows Martin won't fight back . Unfortunately for Martin the only cure for Richie is breaking a chair over his head . Then it's not worth his while . On a side note has Richie been on a winning team ?

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 02:37 PM
Seems to clearly be Richie's daddy posting this stuff:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195b7o509fmjqpng/original.png (http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195b7o509fmjqpng/original.png)<--click for larger


Quote:
This is a joke, suspend an honest player for a drug addict and a player that tried to kill himself three times. Complete ****in utter BS and this team is just covering their ass. What a friggin joke. Strange only coments are from Zuckerman and not Martin himself. Irleand and Philbin should be ashamed of themselves, this is a ****in joke. Suspend a pro bowl player for a player that does not even belong in the NFL. FUKIN JOKE its all going to come out in the wash and Ireland should be ****in hung because he , philbin and everyone else knew Martin did drugs and attempted suicide three times. But hey, the regular people will never hear that right ? ****IN JOKE FOLKS, ****IN JOKE.
Late last night:
Quote:
Incognito will look good in a Jets uniform beating the piss out of our defensive line in a few weeks. Watch, learn , and we will have ? Jonahtan Martin, draft bust, drug addict and on suicide watch, what a team. LMFAO.

First, it's funny how Daddy Incognito's arrows strike his own son (http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/2733/revisiting-incognito-and-the-rams), as well.
Arriving in the 2005 NFL draft with a history of off-the-field issues and a serious knee injury that pushed him from possible first-rounder to the third, Incognito’s time in St. Louis was certainly tumultuous. That’s a categorization Incognito wouldn’t deny.

A self described “big kid” when he was in St. Louis, Incognito simply refused to grow up and do what was necessary to be a professional. Off the field, he liked to party and alcohol and drugs were part of his regular diet. On the field, he had little control of his temper. Incognito was out of control.

"I mean, we'd have practice the next morning, and I'm out until all hours of the night, running the town," Incognito told NFL.com over the summer. "Drinking. Doing drugs. I was doing everything that a professional athlete should not be doing."

While this is NOT something I broadcast, this butthole has forced me out of the closet. In 1998 I found everything to be utterly black. I'd given up all hope and tried to remove myself from the face of the earth. I LITERALLY could see no reason to live. I hope neither Mr. Ignognito nor his microscopic DCIK of a dad never know what that's like, but it's nice to know that he's of the opinion that anyone who isn't him or his son should be lying dead somewhere. I pitty this imbecile and his a-hole son. If karma does exist I hope they both encounter someone who treats them the way they treat the world.

But much more importantly I'm very glad you did not, Dread, as this world needs more people like you in it.

I see suicides wayyy to often -- just lost another friend Friday -- and what's left behind lasts longer than you can imagine.

Dread-Head
11-04-2013, 02:41 PM
Dread,

Glad to hear that you were able to find your way out of the darkness. A lot of people have had trouble with anxiety/depression. I have had periods of anxiety, as have a lot of my friends. In fact, I was just telling a buddy yesterday about the one time I had a panic attack. (I had been laid off from my job, and the bank was being difficult about restructuring my mortgage).

I openly advocate that people should see a psychologist or psycharist if they are feeling down. There is no shame in it, and it can be helpful.

Remember when Ron Artest won the title with the Lakers a few years back? He thanked his therapist. He'd been dealing with a lot of issues for years, and said having a therapist helped him.

The Incognito's are trash. Pure and simple.

The things which helped me (and it took YEARS) were:

a. My mom

b. My REAL friends

c. reconnecting to my faith

d. Finding interest to give me some vent for anything negative.

e. Finding OTHER people who've been to that horrible place and lived to tell of it and talking to them.



People like Incognito's dad have no idea how blessed their existence has been if they can treat something that serious as some character flaw to be stigmatized.

Dread-Head
11-04-2013, 02:50 PM
First, it's funny how Daddy Incognito's arrows strike his own son (http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/2733/revisiting-incognito-and-the-rams), as well.




But much more importantly I'm very glad you did not, Dread, as this world needs more people like you in it.

I see suicides wayyy to often -- just lost another friend Friday -- and what's left behind lasts longer than you can imagine.

Thank you. Truthfully if I hear of someone in that place I try to talk them in. It's like being in a dark soundproof tunnel. You can't hear ANYTHING anyone is trying to say to youand think that NOONE can possibly understand you. It all seems really surreal and when you reach the darkest point you stop caring about EVERYTHING. The last thing you stop caring about is yourself. That point of no return is someplace I wouldn't wish on ANYONE INCLUDING my worst enemy...and I HATE that muff-hugga

toronto
11-04-2013, 02:59 PM
While this is NOT something I broadcast, this butthole has forced me out of the closet. In 1998 I found everything to be utterly black. I'd given up all hope and tried to remove myself from the face of the earth. I LITERALLY could see no reason to live. I hope neither Mr. Ignognito nor his microscopic DCIK of a dad never know what that's like, but it's nice to know that he's of the opinion that anyone who isn't him or his son should be lying dead somewhere. I pitty this imbecile and his a-hole son. If karma does exist I hope they both encounter someone who treats them the way they treat the world.

Dread, I have been there, and am still crawling out. It really is a black hole, or quicksand. I so frigging appreciate knowing many have been down this road. It sucks.

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 03:08 PM
Miami Dolphins are expected to release guard Richie Incognito (http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/04/3730753/dolphins-suspend-incognito-amid.html)
“He’s done,” a ranking club source said Monday. “There are procedures in place and everyone wants to be fair. The NFL is involved. But from a club perspective he’ll never play another game here.”


My understanding is "conduct unbecoming" will be invoked, which means no pay I think?

****************************

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
Asked if he's surprised at Incognito's current predicament, Antonio Smith said: "Definitely not."

Why? "You are what you are." #Texans

TexansSeminole
11-04-2013, 03:31 PM
Little Richie sounds like he has some serious mental problems.

IDEXAN
11-04-2013, 04:05 PM
Former Colts GM Bill Polian echoed similar sentiments on SportsCenter Monday. Polian said Indianapolis had "a very strong anti-hazing and anti-bullying policy" when he and Dungy ran the team and that the policy was "enforced" by leaders in the locker room.

This is something the Dolphins clearly don't have. It's always easier to criticize in hindsight, but it's quite clear something went seriously amiss while Miami was building their locker-room culture.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24186395/tony-dungy-scott-pioli-say-richie-incognito-was-off-draft-boards
*****
Polian was on Sportscenter this afternoon and his remarks there were more elaborate than what's here, but this is the gist of his comments and it points to the problems Miami had which goes all the way to the HC & GM, the ownerships principle reps and even the owner himself and Stephen Ross is not highly regarded.
I couldn't imagine this situation existing here in Houston or in other top rated NFL organizations when it comes to player personnel relations, but sometimes the crap does slip thru the cracks. For example we all know that NE owner Bob Kraft with Belichick at the helm got stuck with a player charged with homicide, and that happened even after they re-upped him with a very generous, new contract extension.

The1ApplePie
11-04-2013, 04:21 PM
Another win for Jeff "Is your Mother a Prostitute?" Ireland

Texn4life
11-04-2013, 05:48 PM
There is a reason I only talk about a few issues in the NSZ. I don't know enough to speak intelligently about a lot about many of the things discussed there. To me this isn't even something that should be up for debate. I pray for Martin's well being and hope Incognito gets hit by a bus. Yeah I said it!

Ghostform
11-04-2013, 07:03 PM
dunno if this has been posted but here he is at a bar with teammates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW9C4qi5Y80

gtexan02
11-04-2013, 07:12 PM
Great article on ESPN

Beneath the disgusting details of threats and taunts and racism lies an uncomfortable truth: The NFL needs Richie Incognito more than it needs Jonathan Martin.

Coaches love players like Incognito. They look at guys like Martin, known as soft-spoken and thoughtful while at Stanford, with skepticism. Does he have the killer instinct? Does he care enough? Those questions don't apply to Incognito. Coaches might not want to see him after hours, but they love him on the field. He's indispensable, a tone-setter, the guy who announces your team's presence with a crazed, through-the-whistle style that is prized at every level.

Coaches chuckle among themselves: He might be a horrible human being, but he's our horrible human being. Sociopathic behavior from players at certain positions is not only tolerated but cherished. As long as it stays out of the headlines and the police blotters -- in other words, as long as it's kept in-house -- it provides the kind of toughness you need to compete.

Yes, this is America's game.

Own it. Even now, even after the extent of Incognito's viciousness has been revealed through voice mails and texts to Martin, there are NFL personnel people telling reporters, like Sports Illustrated's Jim Trotter, that it's a man's game and Martin failed to handle it like a man. According to these unnamed men, Martin should have manned up and handled the situation face-to-face, with his fists if necessary.

You know -- like a man.

Seriously, though, did these men's men read the things Incognito reportedly said to Martin? Don't we encourage people not to deal with the deranged, to let the professionals handle it? Does anyone believe Incognito would be cowed by a confrontation?

To blame Martin is to ignore reality and uphold the twisted norms of the misguided subculture that allowed this type of environment to persist and -- dare we say -- thrive. It's also a willful refusal to connect the threat of violence to the reality of our gun-soaked, disrespect-me-and-pay-the-price ethos that has people like Aaron Hernandez sitting in jail.

Martin should be praised for walking away and letting the Dolphins sit amid the fetid steam of Incognito's behavior. Speaking of Martin, Bart Scott told Stephen A. Smith and Ryan Ruocco on ESPN New York, "Thank God he walked away. They've got to be thankful he didn't bring a gun to work."

It's soul-crushing to see how many situations in football cause people to break out the "wussification of America" card, as if being swindled and harassed and threatened is just part of the NFL workplace, the price you pay for having a job that too many American males look upon as the pinnacle of human achievement. If you can't hack having your mother threatened and your race demeaned and your well being threatened, you know, move aside for someone who can.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9926888/miami-dolphins-kept-richie-incognito-control

htownfan32
11-04-2013, 07:36 PM
Didn't see this posted and it seemed quite relevant to the thread, so thanks anyways. When I want board ettiquette, forgive me but you're the last person I'll ask.

:goodpost:

steelbtexan
11-04-2013, 07:47 PM
How do you know some of the players within Igcognito's crew weren't black? Stupid comes in all colors.

You think Martin is weak. That's your opinion. I think Martin is much, much smarter than Igcognito. Instead of punching him in the face - which is what you wanted Martin to do - Martin simply saved texts and emails.

Martin lost a lot of battles, but, guess who is going to win the war?

This is true

And be cut before the start of next season if the Lawyers will let the Dolphins cut him. Martin has been soft and played terrible this yr. He was being counted on to be the Dolphins LT for the next 10 yrs. He couldn't handle those responsibilities and was weak minded.

This story gets the fans mind off of his terrible play and focuses on his feelings, which was his goal in all of this. Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up and help the team. Did he go too far and use despicable behavior? Yes.

But apparently most of the Dolphins OL mates agrred with Incognito and backed him up. The Dolphins coaches must have agreed with Incognito also because they didn't stop it. This means that Martin wont be long for Miami.

Martin's biggest knock coming out of college was that he wasn't physical enough. Sounds like Martin will be Gary's RT of the future. I'm sure he will fit in quite well with Newton.

BTW, this is why it will be a long time before an openly gay player will be welcomed on a team. Teams look to avoid stuff like this like the plague. If you were to ask Ireland if he's glad that he drafted Martin or if he wishes he would've passed on Martin and Ireland was honest, I garuntee you Martin wouldn't be a Dolphin today.

htownfan32
11-04-2013, 07:47 PM
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/582/678/d65.jpg

houstonspartan
11-04-2013, 08:52 PM
This is true

And be cut before the start of next season if the Lawyers will let the Dolphins cut him. Martin has been soft and played terrible this yr. He was being counted on to be the Dolphins LT for the next 10 yrs. He couldn't handle those responsibilities and was weak minded.

This story gets the fans mind off of his terrible play and focuses on his feelings, which was his goal in all of this. Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up and help the team. Did he go too far and use despicable behavior? Yes.

But apparently most of the Dolphins OL mates agrred with Incognito and backed him up. The Dolphins coaches must have agreed with Incognito also because they didn't stop it. This means that Martin wont be long for Miami.

Martin's biggest knock coming out of college was that he wasn't physical enough. Sounds like Martin will be Gary's RT of the future. I'm sure he will fit in quite well with Newton.

BTW, this is why it will be a long time before an openly gay player will be welcomed on a team. Teams look to avoid stuff like this like the plague. If you were to ask Ireland if he's glad that he drafted Martin or if he wishes he would've passed on Martin and Ireland was honest, I garuntee you Martin wouldn't be a Dolphin today.

Wow.

Thinking like this is why Martin will likely get a massive liability settlement from the Dolphins.

So, "toughening him up" means using the n-word, and threatening to kill him? Extorting money from him?

And, his terrible play likely would have gotten him eventually cut. If he couldn't hack it, or wasn't physical enough, the system would have weeded him out.

Mario was labeled soft coming out of college, and I don't think any Texans players or staff harassed him to this level. At least, we haven't heard about it.

The Dolphins could have simply benched him and then released him at the end of the season.

Would you have preferred Martin bring in a gun and go ballistic and kill people? Would that have made him "tough" enough?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

RazorOye
11-04-2013, 09:02 PM
Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up and help the team.

yea, the voicemail messages and the texts and the racial slurs and the fines and suspensions were all just some clever farce. He was channeling his Prince Hal mischief so that he might emerge a heroic Henry V.

Is that about it?

But apparently most of the Dolphins OL mates agrred with Incognito and backed him up. The Dolphins coaches must have agreed with Incognito also because they didn't stop it. This means that Martin wont be long for Miami.

No. There's nothing "apparently" about any of this. This is you making a scenario fit what it must for the rest of your narrative to cohere and calling it the logical conclusion.

It's sorta impressive how certain you and IDEXAN are in your conclusions with how little you actually know.

I garuntee you Martin wouldn't be a Dolphin today.

Ibid.

Texan_Bill
11-04-2013, 09:13 PM
This is true

But apparently most of the Dolphins OL mates agrred with Incognito and backed him up. The Dolphins coaches must have agreed with Incognito also because they didn't stop it. This means that Martin wont be long for Miami.

Martin's biggest knock coming out of college was that he wasn't physical enough. Sounds like Martin will be Gary's RT of the future. I'm sure he will fit in quite well with Newton.

BTW, this is why it will be a long time before an openly gay player will be welcomed on a team. Teams look to avoid stuff like this like the plague. If you were to ask Ireland if he's glad that he drafted Martin or if he wishes he would've passed on Martin and Ireland was honest, I garuntee you Martin wouldn't be a Dolphin today.

I'll take him. He's better than what we have now at RT.....


In any event, SteelB you know me well enough that I hate the "wussification of 'Merica"

If this "supposed hazing" came from "the guys", that's one thing, but coming from this POS Cognito, EFF Him!!!

I don't mean to speak for nor do I represent Antonio Smith, I'm pretty sure the Ninja would agree..

Bottom line, this dude is a POS!!! I hope he never plays another down in the NFL!

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 09:16 PM
This is true

And be cut before the start of next season if the Lawyers will let the Dolphins cut him. Martin has been soft and played terrible this yr. He was being counted on to be the Dolphins LT for the next 10 yrs. He couldn't handle those responsibilities and was weak minded.

This story gets the fans mind off of his terrible play and focuses on his feelings, which was his goal in all of this. Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up and help the team. Did he go too far and use despicable behavior? Yes.

But apparently most of the Dolphins OL mates agrred with Incognito and backed him up. The Dolphins coaches must have agreed with Incognito also because they didn't stop it. This means that Martin wont be long for Miami.

Martin's biggest knock coming out of college was that he wasn't physical enough. Sounds like Martin will be Gary's RT of the future. I'm sure he will fit in quite well with Newton.

BTW, this is why it will be a long time before an openly gay player will be welcomed on a team. Teams look to avoid stuff like this like the plague. If you were to ask Ireland if he's glad that he drafted Martin or if he wishes he would've passed on Martin and Ireland was honest, I garuntee you Martin wouldn't be a Dolphin today.

I'm simply flabbergasted by this troglodyte mentality of "gotta tuffen 'im up if he wanna play ball" mentality being endorsed by a small minority.

Have you actually READ what Incognito said and did? Do you actually know that the NFL is a PROFESSIONAL football league? Do you understand that this goes above making a rook carry your pads or two-a-days?

There is a right way to be a MAN and carry yourself in this game of professional athletes and it's obvious that this game needs more JJ Watts and Andre Johnsons and Arian Fosters and need ZERO guys like Incognito. How is a game rife with tough guys not filled with incidents like this? Because most of them are not crappy scum bags of human beings who have a warped sense of what it means to be a man.

Not everyone is mentally or physically cut out to play the game, but let the GAME and the competition and PERFORMANCE suss out who should be on the field, not just racist, maschismo jackhole like Richie. He's not suited to be anywhere around other people, let alone a game like football.

Fred
11-04-2013, 09:38 PM
I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.

Schefter tweets suggest Ingognito is a serious *********

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1m
NFL has heard Richie Incognito's VM to Jonathan Martin. Dolphins have heard the voice mail.
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 4m
1: Richie Incognito left this VM for Jonathan Martin in April 2013: "Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of (expletive)...
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
2. More Incognito to Martin: "I saw you on Twitter, you been training ten weeks. (I want to) (expletive) in your (expl) mouth....
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 3m
3. Incognito VM to Martin: "(I'm going to) slap your (expletive) mouth. (I'm going to) slap your real mother across the face (laughter).
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m
4. Incognito to Martin, all on same VM in April 2013: "(Expletive) you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

If a guy is going after you like Incognito is going after Martin (which apparently happened constantly at your high school and college) the only way to not be a wuss would be for Martin to smash Incognito in the head until his brains all ran out.

So IDEXAN, how many of your own teammates did you kill in high school and college? Or are you just a big ***** wussy that even Johnathan Martin would pick on? Or are you just full of crap?

Playoffs
11-04-2013, 09:40 PM
I'm simply flabbergasted by this troglodyte mentality of "gotta tuffen 'im up if he wanna play ball" mentality being endorsed by a small minority...

You do understand that troglodytes don't know what troglodyte means... ? :kitten:






Agree 100%.

steelbtexan
11-04-2013, 09:58 PM
yea, the voicemail messages and the texts and the racial slurs and the fines and suspensions were all just some clever farce. He was channeling his Prince Hal mischief so that he might emerge a heroic Henry V.

Is that about it?



No. There's nothing "apparently" about any of this. This is you making a scenario fit what it must for the rest of your narrative to cohere and calling it the logical conclusion.

It's sorta impressive how certain you and IDEXAN are in your conclusions with how little you actually know.



Ibid.


I'm asking you if you think his Dolphin teammates knew what was going on between Incognito and Martin? If they didn't they shoul have. Or was Ritchie the Lone Ranger who hated Martin because he is a racist POS. Why didn't Martin's fellow OL mates back him up? Especially since racism is normally taboo in the lockeroom? Martin's OL coach should've been told or knew what was going on, but nothing was said/done about it. Why was this?

Just because I think Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up doesn't mean that I dont think Incognito is a racist/egomanical POS. He is, I find it humorous that posters think I was trying to justify Incognito's actions.

Just to make it clear Incognito is a horrible human being. With that said the Cowgirls need a OG and Ritchie will be cut in 4 wks, so Incognito will be a Cowgirl this yr at some point this yr.

chicagotexan2
11-04-2013, 10:02 PM
If Antonio smith had connected with bashing incognitos face with his helmet he would have done the world a favor. I can see dickey incognito getting himself in a seriously violent altercation the way this dumb ape acts.

Honoring Earl 34
11-04-2013, 10:17 PM
I'm asking you if you think his Dolphin teammates knew what was going on between Incognito and Martin? If they didn't they shoul have. Or was Ritchie the Lone Ranger who hated Martin because he is a racist POS. Why didn't Martin's fellow OL mates back him up? Especially since racism is normally taboo in the lockeroom? Martin's OL coach should've been told or knew what was going on, but nothing was said/done about it. Why was this?

Just because I think Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up doesn't mean that I dont think Incognito is a racist/egomanical POS. He is, I find it humorous that posters think I was trying to justify Incognito's actions.

Just to make it clear Incognito is a horrible human being. With that said the Cowgirls need a OG and Ritchie will be cut in 4 wks, so Incognito will be a Cowgirl this yr at some point this yr.

One of the linemates is Pouncey . He wore a free Aaron Hernandez hat around .

Honoring Earl 34
11-04-2013, 10:19 PM
You do understand that troglodytes don't know what troglodyte means... ? :kitten:






Agree 100%.

Wrong Buckwheat ... my doctor said my troglodytes were high and I better watch it .

steelbtexan
11-04-2013, 10:23 PM
Wrong Buckwheat ... my doctor said my troglodytes were high and I better watch it .

Oh how we the unlearned must suffer from those who posess such great wisdom/knowledge.

We must be stoooooooooopid like the cavemen.

IlliniJen
11-04-2013, 10:35 PM
Just because I think Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up doesn't mean that I dont think Incognito is a racist/egomanical POS. He is, I find it humorous that posters think I was trying to justify Incognito's actions.



You REALLY think that Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up? Incognito was being a dick and a bully because that's what he IS. He was serving his own ego and rubbing one out while doing it probably. He just found an easy victim who wouldn't stoop to Richie's level.

Dutchrudder
11-05-2013, 12:27 AM
I think this situation is cut and dry. The kind of shenanigans that the Texans pull are cheeky and fun, but the kind that Incognito pulls are cruel and tragic, which makes them not really shenanigans at all. They are evil shenanigans.

Txn_in_Oki
11-05-2013, 02:46 AM
We were talking about this at work today and thought that the worst thing was that it wasn't really considered a big deal until the almighty n-word got involved.

It seemed like that as long as he had left that one word out, Incognito would have been given a pass and Martin would have been considered a wuss. It's a shame really.

IDEXAN
11-05-2013, 08:03 AM
Wonder where Martin ends up ? We could use him as he's more of a finesse type Olineman with impressive athleticism so he can run and get to the second-level with ease, a "natural" for the Texans' ZBS. On the other hand Incognito is surely radio-active NFL wise and his best and only bet may be Canadian ball.

houstonspartan
11-05-2013, 09:05 AM
I'm asking you if you think his Dolphin teammates knew what was going on between Incognito and Martin? If they didn't they shoul have. Or was Ritchie the Lone Ranger who hated Martin because he is a racist POS. Why didn't Martin's fellow OL mates back him up? Especially since racism is normally taboo in the lockeroom? Martin's OL coach should've been told or knew what was going on, but nothing was said/done about it. Why was this?

Just because I think Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up doesn't mean that I dont think Incognito is a racist/egomanical POS. He is, I find it humorous that posters think I was trying to justify Incognito's actions.

Just to make it clear Incognito is a horrible human being. With that said the Cowgirls need a OG and Ritchie will be cut in 4 wks, so Incognito will be a Cowgirl this yr at some point this yr.

Because you ARE trying to justify his actions. You're essentially saying, "Oh, call the black dude a N-word. That'll toughen him up. He's weak."

TheIronDuke
11-05-2013, 09:05 AM
I hope Incognito ends up in the NFC North so that he can face off with Suh and hopefully they can kill each other on the field.

silvrhand
11-05-2013, 09:09 AM
So before we start let's just be clear that I'm goign off what has been reported, and what I have heard, not what the truth is.

First off I think there are plenty of examples of how Incognito is f'ing crazy and should not be in the NFL anymore period.

- Martin has to pay $15k to olinemen on trip he doesn't go on.

normal rookie hazing in the NFL, not uncommon probably a bit much in my view, but I'm not making near as much money as they are.

- Martin gets brutal voicemail from Incognito after missings OTAs.

I would probably have something to say to a teammate that missed OTA's as well, that's a critical offense from my standpoint. Now that being said do I think he deserved to have his life threatened by a crazy POS and called racial slurs? No. Could have had left a Hey Jonathon, wtf where are you at message? Yes. Do I think Incognito was the only one to probably message him about missing OTAs? Probably not.

- Incognito's father on the forum post..

Seriously this just goes to show the level of crazy that exists with this whole family, cut bait and run NFL, the league and players deserve better than this POS.

I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the two stories, and in my experience in the locker room someone usually steps in and tells them to tone it down. Now that being said the entire locker room may or may not have been involved, and to Martin's defense Incognito is not one you can reason with. I feel sorry for Martin but I suspect there was a better way to handle it to just walk way from the team, but I could be wrong as well. If he approached the coaches and was told to deal with it then shame on them, and good for him.

I'm sure we'll get more coverage as the time goes on, but I'm glad about one thing, and I think that Incognito will have played his last down and a player in the NFL.

Blake
11-05-2013, 09:20 AM
I am amazed at people (generalization) defending Incognito or any practice of extortion. Besides the traditional stick them with the bill for ONE meal when they get their contract, and carrying shoulderpads, the rest is ridiculous.

Could you imagine getting together with co-workers and forcing the new guy to pay for everyones lunch while the new guy stays in the office? That doesnt happen because in the real world you have to show respect to one another. In the NFL, apparently respect isnt given, its taken.

steelbtexan
11-05-2013, 09:22 AM
Because you ARE trying to justify his actions. You're essentially saying, "Oh, call the black dude a N-word. That'll toughen him up. He's weak."


Total BS

The N word has nothing to do with toughening him up. In fact if Ritchie hadn't used the N word all of this wouldn't be a big deal to the masses, as another poster pointed out. Which is sad.

The fact that both white and African-American teammates have come out in support of Incognito, calling him a great teammate and a leader. (I heard this on the news this morning) speaks volumes. Why aren't they supporting Martin? (Legitimate ?)

It's kinda sad really.

PS, dont put words in my mouth

eriadoc
11-05-2013, 09:25 AM
Question to the troglodytes that are rationalizing, condoning, defending, or in any other way excusing Incognito's behavior:

How far is too far? I mean, I understand hazing and I understand team camaraderie. Hazing is at its heart a team building exercise, but it can be taken too far. So if you think Martin is just being a wuss and Incognito is justified, how far is too far? Be specific, please.

toronto
11-05-2013, 09:35 AM
Question to the troglodytes that are rationalizing, condoning, defending, or in any other way excusing Incognito's behavior:

How far is too far? I mean, I understand hazing and I understand team camaraderie. Hazing is at its heart a team building exercise, but it can be taken too far. So if you think Martin is just being a wuss and Incognito is justified, how far is too far? Be specific, please.

My question, is that when it was clear (based on the team releasing the player, they obviously know something we don't) to the other linemen, teammates, coaching staff, you name it, that this was going on, why did they enable it?

This will likely wind up costing them a lot of money, to say nothing of the reputations that will be sullied, starting with Philbin and his offensive coaching staff.

houstonspartan
11-05-2013, 09:46 AM
Total BS

The N word has nothing to do with toughening him up. In fact if Ritchie hadn't used the N word all of this wouldn't be a big deal to the masses, as another poster pointed out. Which is sad.

The fact that both white and African-American teammates have come out in support of Incognito, calling him a great teammate and a leader. (I heard this on the news this morning) speaks volumes. Why aren't they supporting Martin? (Legitimate ?)

It's kinda sad really.

PS, dont put words in my mouth

As I said earlier in this thread: stupid comes in all races. Those players that are supporting this idiot are morons.

And, sorry, but, yes, you are justifying his words and actions.

steelbtexan
11-05-2013, 09:46 AM
Question to the troglodytes that are rationalizing, condoning, defending, or in any other way excusing Incognito's behavior:

How far is too far? I mean, I understand hazing and I understand team camaraderie. Hazing is at its heart a team building exercise, but it can be taken too far. So if you think Martin is just being a wuss and Incognito is justified, how far is too far? Be specific, please.

Not that I'm a troglodyte but,

Having a man pay $15,000 and not letting him go on the trip to Vegas is taking it too far.

This was an important season for the Dolphins, they spent alot of $$$$ in FA and trading up in the draft. This season was important enough to Martin for him to show up for OTA's. This was probably 1 reason why nobody respected Martin on the Dolphins. Including Management/Coaches/Teammates and the reason Martin felt likehe had nobody to complain too.

Martin will get another job in the NFL if he wants to play, probably not with the Dolphins. But he will get no respect from his teammates around the NFL. He broke the code by taking team problems outside the lockerroom.

His career is permanently damaged. (Sorry that's just the way it is.) I really question if Martin really wants to play football. Because of this, I smell a lawsuit in the near future. Afterall it really will come down to Martin getting paid.

silvrhand
11-05-2013, 09:47 AM
Question to the troglodytes that are rationalizing, condoning, defending, or in any other way excusing Incognito's behavior:

How far is too far? I mean, I understand hazing and I understand team camaraderie. Hazing is at its heart a team building exercise, but it can be taken too far. So if you think Martin is just being a wuss and Incognito is justified, how far is too far? Be specific, please.

I personally am not excusing Incognito, he's crazy and a POS, I hope he never gets to see another football field again.

- the voicemail incognito left was over the top, but I do believe that missing OTA's would get you called out by other players, I'm willing to bet Incognito was not the only one to text/call Martin for missing OTAs.

- the dinner/trip thing is somewhat normal in the NFL for the rookies, they were raking in rather large salaries during the years when rookies were getting multi million dollar deals so I kind of understand how the veterans felt. I'm sort of split on this, do I see it unreasonable to take the veterans out and have buy them dinner? No, do I see it rather crazy that some of these bills are outrageously priced upwards of 50k, absolutely.

This goes beyond being taped to the goal post, and yes I've taped a few players to the goalpost, and one coach in my playing days.

steelbtexan
11-05-2013, 09:48 AM
As I said earlier in this thread: stupid comes in all races. Those players that are supporting this idiot are morons.

And, sorry, but, yes, you are justifying his words and actions.

Where did I say one thing supporting Incognito, I was just explaing the culture of the Dolphins. Read my above post.

You are interpeting things wrong. Or reading them the way you want to believe. I'm done with this part of the conversation.

Dutchrudder
11-05-2013, 09:52 AM
Sooooo nobody else here thinks that Martin missed OTAs due to Incognito's harassment? I haven't seen a timeline of the events (might help), but I'm pretty sure I read that this stuff started in April, well before OTAs start.

chicagotexan2
11-05-2013, 10:14 AM
Incognito really looks like the idiot meathead characters in professional wrestling. I'd like to believe he's acting like a dbag POS, but I think he is genuinely distrurbed.

toronto
11-05-2013, 10:36 AM
Sooooo nobody else here thinks that Martin missed OTAs due to Incognito's harassment? I haven't seen a timeline of the events (might help), but I'm pretty sure I read that this stuff started in April, well before OTAs start.

Don't worry, this is all going to come out. I fully expect this kid to launch a massive lawsuit at some point, probably against the team, and its feasible his own union. Going to get very messy, which to me was why the Dolphins moved so quickly to cut Incognito. I have no doubt that was partially, if not completely based on legal advice.

2012Champs
11-05-2013, 10:36 AM
I understand picking up a meal but when they run 15k+ for a meal I think as a coach I would step in an end the practice because I see that as taking it too far.



edit:


Whether tackle Jonathan Martin was the victim of bullying isn't the only issue affecting the Dolphins. The Miami Herald's Adam Beasley tweeted Sunday that one young defensive player has nearly gone broke because he's been pressured to pay for older players.


They've gotten sucked into the Miami lifestyle, and the veterans are using the younger players as an ATM, I'm told.
— Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) November 3, 2013

Recently, a younger player was handed the tab for a $30,000 team dinner. The rookie minimum this year is around $400.000.
— Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) November 3, 2013


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24181547/report-young-dolphins-player-nearly-broke-paying-for-teammates

Playoffs
11-05-2013, 10:38 AM
I'll take him. He's better than what we have now at RT.....Unfortunately Jeff Ireland is the kind of jerk who'll hold & sit Martin out of spite. He's the same guy who withheld Sage Rosenfels, who he had no plans for, from us in 2011 only to release him weeks later.

Wrong Buckwheat ... my doctor said my troglodytes were high and I better watch it .I hear Krispy Kremes are good for that. http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/f/fat_woman_eating_donuts-2165.gif

Could you imagine getting together with co-workers and forcing the new guy to pay for everyones lunch while the new guy stays in the office? That doesnt happen because in the real world...But it does in the NFL, as Mike Golic has explained. His understanding is that money was "owed" as part of a rookie kangaroo court veterans run to "fine" rookies for various infractions. Sounds excessive to me and perhaps is outdated, but it's not unheard of.

We were talking about this at work today and thought that the worst thing was that it wasn't really considered a big deal until the almighty n-word got involved...I have an issue with that, but calling the guy "at home" and leaving threats bringing his family into it is outside the lines.

Worse for me, though, is Incognito being the source of what is now widely publicly known very personal information about Martin's attempted suicide(s). Did Incognito make all buddy-buddy nice guy with Martin to ferret out embarrassing information that he could use to bully and humiliate Martin with? SOP for bullies. That's HIPAA type privacy info. If Richie tough guy is sharing that info with his loudmouth, jackhole father he very likely bullied Martin about it. And that's beyond the pale.

Playoffs
11-05-2013, 11:02 AM
All of Incognito's college and pro teams have ended up suspending him, cutting ties with him or both (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/11/05/incognito-bully-accusations-nebraska-freshman/3439819/)

It was early 2002 and Incognito was just a freshman at Nebraska, but that didn't stop him from picking fights or harassing teammates, in this case a non-scholarship offensive lineman named Jack Limbaugh. Incognito plowed into Limbaugh's back during practice, knocking him to the ground for no apparent reason.

Limbaugh responded by getting up, grabbing his equipment and walking out, according to the diary of teammate David Kolowski.

"Richie was a guy who came in with all the talent in the world, and Jack was an easy mark for a guy like Richie, who came across as a bully," Kolowski told USA TODAY Sports on Monday. "Jack was a walk-on just trying to make the team. There was a bit of that kind of bullying with Jack. He didn't appreciate it, but in that culture you don't run and cry to the coaches."

"Hate is a strong word but I've always hated Incognito," Lawrence Jackson, a former NFL defensive end, said Monday on Twitter. "Just for perspective, he's the guy that makes you want to spit in his face."

"He didn't know where to draw the line," said Kolowski, who published Diary of a Husker.

There's a pattern at work here, much of which resembles an old stereotype: The privileged jock who likes to make life miserable for opponents and easy targets.

"Hate is a strong word but I've always hated Incognito," Lawrence Jackson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa98.htm), a former NFL defensive end, said Monday on Twitter. "Just for perspective, he's the guy that makes you want to spit in his face."

"Richie Incognito is... a dirty and disrespectful player," Jackson said on Twitter. "For those wondering...I played him 4x when I was with Seattle. We all knew to watch our KNEES and be alert for his antics."

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 11:13 AM
Recently, a younger player was handed the tab for a $30,000 team dinner. The rookie minimum this year is around $400.000.
— Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) November 3, 2013


This blows my mind.

I understand the "hazing ritual" when it's silly stuff. Shaving heads, taping to goal posts, making rookies sing pop songs in front of the whole team kinda' stuff is just silly fun and out in the open.

However, messing with a man's paycheck is a whole other issue. Then it becomes personal. It crosses the line of professionalism to criminal. Buying donuts for a team meeting is one thing, but 30 freakin' grand???! No way can anyone logical justify this behavior without resorting to some really messed up pretzel logic.

silvrhand
11-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Sooooo nobody else here thinks that Martin missed OTAs due to Incognito's harassment? I haven't seen a timeline of the events (might help), but I'm pretty sure I read that this stuff started in April, well before OTAs start.

I have not seen any data on why Martin missed OTA's if this was the case and he had exhausted all other options then so be it. I feel though that there is more going on than we've seen though, we only have one side of the story and it's damning no doubt, but the NFL is a high pressure place that some people can't take the pressure.

Not every job is right for every person.

silvrhand
11-05-2013, 11:24 AM
This blows my mind.

I understand the "hazing ritual" when it's silly stuff. Shaving heads, taping to goal posts, making rookies sing pop songs in front of the whole team kinda' stuff is just silly fun and out in the open.

However, messing with a man's paycheck is a whole other issue. Then it becomes personal. It crosses the line of professionalism to criminal. Buying donuts for a team meeting is one thing, but 30 freakin' grand???! No way can anyone logical justify this behavior without resorting to some really messed up pretzel logic.

It's getting a bit out of hand for sure, 4500/5000 I could see, but after that it's like uh yo I'm the only one here.

CretorFrigg
11-05-2013, 11:24 AM
I totally feel for Johnathan Martin. Even as a young analyst at a bulge bracket investment bank, I got hazed along with every other first year analyst. And it got to the point where I was extremely miserable, not because of the work-load and the 80-100 hour weeks, but because of the people there. It's not just a football thing. It happens everywhere.

What I don't get is why hazing is accepted. What may be fun for some may be utter embarrassment for another. There's a reason why hazing is illegal in schools. Why is it allowed in the work place?

2012Champs
11-05-2013, 11:44 AM
This blows my mind.

I understand the "hazing ritual" when it's silly stuff. Shaving heads, taping to goal posts, making rookies sing pop songs in front of the whole team kinda' stuff is just silly fun and out in the open.

However, messing with a man's paycheck is a whole other issue. Then it becomes personal. It crosses the line of professionalism to criminal. Buying donuts for a team meeting is one thing, but 30 freakin' grand???! No way can anyone logical justify this behavior without resorting to some really messed up pretzel logic.



I think Dez Bryant picked up a 55k tab

2012Champs
11-05-2013, 11:44 AM
I totally feel for Johnathan Martin. Even as a young analyst at a bulge bracket investment bank, I got hazed along with every other first year analyst. And it got to the point where I was extremely miserable, not because of the work-load and the 80-100 hour weeks, but because of the people there. It's not just a football thing. It happens everywhere.

What I don't get is why hazing is accepted. What may be fun for some may be utter embarrassment for another. There's a reason why hazing is illegal in schools. Why is it allowed in the work place?



It really shouldnt be allowed anywhere

houstonspartan
11-05-2013, 11:45 AM
This blows my mind.

I understand the "hazing ritual" when it's silly stuff. Shaving heads, taping to goal posts, making rookies sing pop songs in front of the whole team kinda' stuff is just silly fun and out in the open.

However, messing with a man's paycheck is a whole other issue. Then it becomes personal. It crosses the line of professionalism to criminal. Buying donuts for a team meeting is one thing, but 30 freakin' grand???! No way can anyone logical justify this behavior without resorting to some really messed up pretzel logic.

According to people on this board, they were just trying to "toughen him up..."

chicagotexan2
11-05-2013, 11:46 AM
It won't be long before incognito comes out with a b.s. mea culpa in an effort to salvage his career. Whatever B.S. he says some team will give him a job and I bet he'll find a way to eff that one up too.

Dread-Head
11-05-2013, 11:46 AM
Dread, I have been there, and am still crawling out. It really is a black hole, or quicksand. I so frigging appreciate knowing many have been down this road. It sucks.

Whenever I hear about someone taking his or her own life, part of me dies a little because I know the place they were in before they found themselves in that dark tunnel and heading for what they assumed to be the only way out.

Texn4life
11-05-2013, 11:51 AM
I totally feel for Johnathan Martin. Even as a young analyst at a bulge bracket investment bank, I got hazed along with every other first year analyst. And it got to the point where I was extremely miserable, not because of the work-load and the 80-100 hour weeks, but because of the people there. It's not just a football thing. It happens everywhere.

What I don't get is why hazing is accepted. What may be fun for some may be utter embarrassment for another. There's a reason why hazing is illegal in schools. Why is it allowed in the work place?

Hazing is dumb man. I never participated in it even though I went through my fair share of it. Luckily as a freshman in high school I didn't get beat up like other freshman because of my older brother. I did have to deal with it pretty tough first year in college though but it is what it is.

None of them made it personal though which is the problem with this story. I don't understand anyone who even thinks about this twice. If you have kids then you would never want your sons to deal with the likes of Incognito. I would have tried to kick his ass, but everyone isn't wired like me. I can't blame Martin because he chose a different approach. Trying to justify Incognito's actions by pointing out Martin's actions or lack of reactions makes me think people who are doing it are the scum of the earth to me.

eriadoc
11-05-2013, 11:56 AM
Not that I'm a troglodyte but,

Having a man pay $15,000 and not letting him go on the trip to Vegas is taking it too far.

So the hazing went too far. Then you throw in a huge BUT --

This was an important season for the Dolphins, they spent alot of $$$$ in FA and trading up in the draft. This season was important enough to Martin for him to show up for OTA's. This was probably 1 reason why nobody respected Martin on the Dolphins. Including Management/Coaches/Teammates and the reason Martin felt likehe had nobody to complain too.

Or maybe he missed OTAs because he felt like no one on his TEAM had his back, and in fact were siding with Incognito.

I personally am not excusing Incognito, he's crazy and a POS, I hope he never gets to see another football field again.

- the voicemail incognito left was over the top, but I do believe that missing OTA's would get you called out by other players, I'm willing to bet Incognito was not the only one to text/call Martin for missing OTAs.

You people and your BUT fetishes .... When someone does something wrong that precipitates a response, you don't say "yeah, he was wrong BUT". You just say he was wrong and recognize that the results are dependent upon that wrong. And again, the guy missed OTAs because of the hazing. The hazing didn't start because he missed OTAs.

I have not seen any data on why Martin missed OTA's if this was the case and he had exhausted all other options then so be it. I feel though that there is more going on than we've seen though, we only have one side of the story and it's damning no doubt, but the NFL is a high pressure place that some people can't take the pressure.

Not every job is right for every person.

So the job is only right for the Incognitos of the world? Or just the people who can put up with the Incognitos of the world? God save us.

htownfan32
11-05-2013, 12:07 PM
I hope Incognito ends up in the NFC North so that he can face off with Suh and hopefully they can kill each other on the field.

Suh might be a thug on the field, but I'm not entirely sure he's one off the field.

TexansSeminole
11-05-2013, 12:18 PM
I hope Incognito ends up in the NFC North so that he can face off with Suh and hopefully they can kill each other on the field.

Incognito is done, nobody is going to want to be associated with the guy.

Texn4life
11-05-2013, 12:21 PM
Here's also another problem for me here. Hazing and things like it are supposed to bring people closer. The locker room is a brotherhood. I'm all for someone messing with another guy in good fun to turn around and accept him as one of their own. Thats not what happened here....... O-Linemen are notoriously known as the tightest group around. The fact he went where he did shows me that he was trying to intimidate the guy. And then called him to probably intimidate him some more after he left the team because he said he talked to him and everything is all good. The more I type this the more it sounds ridiculous. I don't know how anyone can't see this.

Playoffs
11-05-2013, 12:50 PM
This is (part of) the culture they face...

NFL personnel question 'coward' Martin for not challenging Incognito (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20131104/nfl-personnel-question-jonathan-martin-richie-incognito/)

"I think Jonathan Martin is a weak person," said one personnel man, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "If Incognito did offend him racially, that's something you have to handle as a man! Mike Pouncey was a rookie at one point while Incognito was there and you never heard any complaints from him. There's no other way to put it, other than him being sofTTT!"

Said another: "Guys are going to be guys, if you know what I mean. I'm sure there are some instances of 'taking things too far,' but that happens everywhere. You handle it in house -- fight, handle it on the field, joke about it, etc -- and keep it moving."

The Dolphins clearly feel otherwise, if only to protect themselves in the event of a lawsuit. That aside, what fascinates me is how quickly the conversation among players and personnel people turned from Incognito's actions to those of Martin, who has not spoken publicly since the story broke last week. Again, no one defended Incognito, but they did wonder why Martin didn't "man up" and handle the situation one-on-one.

"I might get my ass kicked," one said, "but I'm going to go down swinging if that happens to me, I can tell you that."

Right or wrong, that sentiment is shared by many of the players I spoke with. Football is testosterone driven. It's a physical game and, as such, many of its participants believe that's how issues of (dis)respect should be handled when all else fails -- internally, man against man.

"Locker room culture will never be understood unless you've lived or have been around it," said a personnel man. "This is another ploy in the league's 'player safety' book. Incognito knew who to try. You never heard anything like this come from John Jerry or Mike Pouncey. Instead of being a man and confronting him, he acted like a coward and told like a kid."
So Martin should have assaulted Incognito. He should have bashed his brains in. He should have...http://fun.resplace.net/Emoticons/Gore/Stabbedinhead.gif

Texn4life
11-05-2013, 12:54 PM
This is (part of) the culture they face...

NFL personnel question 'coward' Martin for not challenging Incognito (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20131104/nfl-personnel-question-jonathan-martin-richie-incognito/)

So Martin should have assaulted Incognito. He should have bashed his brains in. He should have...http://fun.resplace.net/Emoticons/Gore/Stabbedinhead.gif

I told a buddy of mine this yesterday. I probably would have gotten my ass kicked but I would've fought him. Not everyone is wired the same though.

Playoffs
11-05-2013, 01:01 PM
and more...
Beneath the disgusting details of threats and taunts and racism lies an uncomfortable truth: The NFL needs Richie Incognito more than it needs Jonathan Martin. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9926888/miami-dolphins-kept-richie-incognito-control)

Coaches love players like Incognito. They look at guys like Martin, known as soft-spoken and thoughtful while at Stanford, with skepticism. Does he have the killer instinct? Does he care enough? Those questions don't apply to Incognito. Coaches might not want to see him after hours, but they love him on the field. He's indispensable, a tone-setter, the guy who announces your team's presence with a crazed, through-the-whistle style that is prized at every level.

Coaches chuckle among themselves: He might be a horrible human being, but he's our horrible human being. Sociopathic behavior from players at certain positions is not only tolerated but cherished. As long as it stays out of the headlines and the police blotters -- in other words, as long as it's kept in-house -- it provides the kind of toughness you need to compete.

Yes, this is America's game...

rmartin65
11-05-2013, 01:06 PM
I told a buddy of mine this yesterday. I probably would have gotten my ass kicked but I would've fought him. Not everyone is wired the same though.

It is easy to say behind a computer screen though. It is probably a little different when the 300 lb psycho is in the same locker room.

Texn4life
11-05-2013, 01:10 PM
It is easy to say behind a computer screen though. It is probably a little different when the 300 lb psycho is in the same locker room.

Dude, I've been in a fight with an O-lineman that outweighed me by 100 pounds. I'm not talking about things I haven't done.I'm backing Martin in this. I wish I had the ability to just not be pressured into fighting. That's not me though. If someone messes with me I'm trying to kick their ass in the locker room. In the real world I'm smarter than that.

b0ng
11-05-2013, 01:19 PM
Yes, the whole situation is really very silly isn't it. But I won't be at all surprised if we see a piece on the nightly national news soon suggesting there should be sensitivity training for NFL players re their interactions with both opponents and teammates. The NFL is definitely in full-blown wussification mode
and we are headed full speed towards touch football.


I had wondered how long it would take for somebody in this thread to whiteknight a known piece of ****. Turns out it was 5 whole posts, wow.

I'm gonna have to do this Jen, I don't want to, but I must to make my point.
I'm guessing you've never played football ? OK, well I have, both in high school and in college, though I assure my collegiate football experience was very unremarkable and the scholastic end of it not much better. But while playing in HS and college, I can't tell you how many incidents I've seen of bullying, varying degrees to be sure. And actually a couple of them were pretty flagrant, pretty nasty situations in other words. It's part of the territory, it's a very, very physical sport played by some really tough guys, certainly at the NFL level. And it's also tough mentally and psychologically because much of it is about being the most macho person in the contest, winning whichever mano-a-mano contest a player might be involved in that's always playing out on the field be it CB vs WR, OT vs edge-rusher, OC vs NT, TE vs LB, etc. In other words, a guy has to have a certain mentality or psyche along with athletic talent, or he's not got what it takes for serious football, certainly not pro ball. And seminars or sensitive training or whatever aren't gonna correct the situation, not for the bully or his victim. Best solution would be to change occupations to office work, or something, anything that's civilized because pro football isn't.

I take the previous "wow" back and want to put it here. Wow. You would probably fit in just perfectly with these dudes --> http://www.castefootball.us/forums/forum.php

Texn4life
11-05-2013, 01:24 PM
I had wondered how long it would take for somebody in this thread to whiteknight a known piece of ****. Turns out it was 5 whole posts, wow.



I take the previous "wow" back and want to put it here. Wow. You would probably fit in just perfectly with these dudes --> http://www.castefootball.us/forums/forum.php

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if that dude has ever played organized sports in his life. Probably just heard stories from more bench warmers who have never got in the game.

HOU-TEX
11-05-2013, 01:33 PM
I told a buddy of mine this yesterday. I probably would have gotten my ass kicked but I would've fought him. Not everyone is wired the same though.

It is easy to say behind a computer screen though. It is probably a little different when the 300 lb psycho is in the same locker room.

I think the bolded holds true here. I'm like Tex4life. I would've stood up to him, taken a likely ass whoopin but prove to him I'm not going to be the easy target.

That said, different strokes for different folks. Like the ole cliche' "I'm a lover, not a fighter". I met a dude that was the baddest mofo I've seen on the field. Off the field he was tame as could be, never gave a thought to raising a fist even when severely harassed. I'm not trying to compare. Just giving a personal experience

b0ng
11-05-2013, 01:38 PM
This is from an ABC news reporters twitter:

Sara Jane Harris @SaraJaneHarris

Oh wow... ESPN playing sound of Richie Incognito... talking about hazing Ryan Tannehill... saying he took his credit card to buy a jet ski.


Sara Jane Harris ‏@SaraJaneHarris 2h

Incognito said he felt like Tannehill "owed" him and other OL on team, because they put themselves on the line each game to protect him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan Tannehill has been sacked like over 30 times this season, he should probably get a refund on those jetski's. Also, it is similar to what the mafia does.

2012Champs
11-05-2013, 01:47 PM
This is from an ABC news reporters twitter:

Sara Jane Harris @SaraJaneHarris

Oh wow... ESPN playing sound of Richie Incognito... talking about hazing Ryan Tannehill... saying he took his credit card to buy a jet ski.


Sara Jane Harris ‏@SaraJaneHarris 2h

Incognito said he felt like Tannehill "owed" him and other OL on team, because they put themselves on the line each game to protect him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan Tannehill has been sacked like over 30 times this season, he should probably get a refund on those jetski's. Also, it is similar to what the mafia does.




on mike and mike this morning they played the audio of Incognito talking about Ryan and "oh we will get our money" or something along those lines

CretorFrigg
11-05-2013, 01:50 PM
on mike and mike this morning they played the audio of Incognito talking about Ryan and "oh we will get our money" or something along those lines

At this point, he's a criminal as well as a bully.

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 02:22 PM
Incognito said he felt like Tannehill "owed" him and other OL on team, because they put themselves on the line each game to protect him.

Wow. Isn't it his job to protect the QB? :um:

I predict Incognito ends up in prison after his football career is over and before it's all said and done.

Or dead. He threatens the wrong dude and finds himself bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 02:27 PM
I take the previous "wow" back and want to put it here. Wow. You would probably fit in just perfectly with these dudes --> http://www.castefootball.us/forums/forum.php

ugh...I had no idea what I was clicking into! :smiliepalm:

That's a whole lotta' stupid in one place. Now I have to wonder about my IP address being connected to such a despicable site.

But, yeah, Incognito and his support group would fit right in.

b0ng
11-05-2013, 02:41 PM
ugh...I had no idea what I was clicking into! :smiliepalm:

That's a whole lotta' stupid in one place. Now I have to wonder about my IP address being connected to such a despicable site.

But, yeah, Incognito and his support group would fit right in.

Sometimes when I'm really drunk, I'll make an account on there just to touch the poop. I don't know what is wrong with me.

silvrhand
11-05-2013, 03:26 PM
You people and your BUT fetishes .... When someone does something wrong that precipitates a response, you don't say "yeah, he was wrong BUT". You just say he was wrong and recognize that the results are dependent upon that wrong. And again, the guy missed OTAs because of the hazing. The hazing didn't start because he missed OTAs.



Sigh..

I clearly stated that Rich Incognito was wrong and a sick individual. But I'm also enough enough to know where there is smoke there is fire. Clearly somethign went on in the locker room and to what level we only know one side of the story so I'm waiting to hear the full story, if we ever do. It's highly likely Incognito was the only one involved and pushed a man to the point of where he felt like he had no other option. In my view I would have thought that it would be pretty obvious to the coaches and players what was going on, almost nothing is sacred in a locker room.

- If Martin was clearly hurting and went to his coaches/owner and nothing was done shame on them.
- If Martin bypassed and just left the team without telling anyone, probably not the right thing to do.

I personally would have given a player grief for not showing up at OTA's, if he would have explained the situation to me I would hope that I would help alleviate the issue. Trust me this isn't the first time sick invidividuals are in the locker room, go look up Charles Haley. The whole 90's cowboys were a locker room disaster.

chicagotexan2
11-05-2013, 03:46 PM
Dude, I've been in a fight with an O-lineman that outweighed me by 100 pounds. I'm not talking about things I haven't done.I'm backing Martin in this. I wish I had the ability to just not be pressured into fighting. That's not me though. If someone messes with me I'm trying to kick their ass in the locker room. In the real world I'm smarter than that.

What keeps coming to mind is the Gilbert arenas and Jabaris crittenton incident. Two idiots take an idiotic beef to new lows. I don't see Martin escalating a fight to the point where guns are drawn but a stupid animal like incognito probably would. Fighting incognito or smacking him in the mouth would not resolve any issues with that sack of schit.

2012Champs
11-05-2013, 03:56 PM
What keeps coming to mind is the Gilbert arenas and Jabaris crittenton incident. Two idiots take an idiotic beef to new lows. I don't see Martin escalating a fight to the point where guns are drawn but a stupid animal like incognito probably would. Fighting incognito or smacking him in the mouth would not resolve any issues with that sack of schit.



I do believe Martin and his family are highly educated, more so when compared to the avg nfl pro and their family. It wouldnt shock me in the least if Martin was raised not to fight back physically

2012Champs
11-05-2013, 04:12 PM
New York Giants safety Antrel Rolle apparently is among those who blame Jonathan Martin, at least in part, for the incidents that led to the offensive lineman leaving the Miami Dolphins.

Speaking on his weekly WFAN radio appearance in New York on Tuesday, Rolle made it clear that he believed Richie Incognito, who has been suspended indefinitely for conduct detrimental to the team, to be in the wrong for his alleged harassment of Martin.

But Rolle also indicated a belief that Martin could have done more to prevent himself from being bullied.

"Was Richie Incognito wrong? Absolutely," Rolle told the radio station. "But I think the other guy is just as much to blame as Richie, because he allowed it to happen.

"At this level, you're a man. You're not a little boy. You're not a freshman in college. You're a man."

Multiple sources confirmed to ESPN on Monday that Incognito used racial epithets and profane language toward Martin on multiple occasions.

Sources also say Martin received a series of voice mail messages and texts that included derogatory terms referring to the female anatomy and sexual orientation.

The NFL is investigating the situation while Incognito is suspended and Martin takes a leave of absence. But there is some sense in NFL player circles that locker rooms should be self-policed, and Rolle's sentiments echo that.

"I think everything has its limits," Rolle said. "So there's no way that another man is going to make me pay for something that I choose not to pay for.

"So, Richie Incognito, is he wrong? Absolutely. But I think the other guy is just as much to blame. Hopefully he's able to bounce back and recover from all that has happened and take awareness of, you know, man, you're a grown-ass man. You need to stand up for yourself. Hazing is one thing. Bullying is another."










This mentality is part of them problem

steelbtexan
11-05-2013, 04:19 PM
According to people on this board, they were just trying to "toughen him up..."

He had to pay that much to his teammates because he didn't show up for OTa's and that was the way his teammates decided to punish Martin. Is that wrong? Of course it is.

2012Champs
11-05-2013, 04:21 PM
He had to pay that much to his teammates because he didn't show up for OTa's and that was the way his teammates decided to punish Martin. Is that wrong? Of course it is.



I wasnt aware the players were required to make payments to others when they missed otas


what was the cause of the phins defensive rookie who got stuck with a 30k tab? Are you making up otas for that one too?

toronto
11-05-2013, 04:54 PM
This mentality is part of them problem

Sometimes I think the only people qualified to speak on this are ones that have been bullied. They know and can relate to the dark place Martin was in. That said, I don't think he was insensitive.

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 05:35 PM
"So, Richie Incognito, is he wrong? Absolutely. But I think the other guy is just as much to blame."

Shouldn't have worn that short skirt!

Oh wait, wrong topic.

Blaming the victim just perpetuates the stupidity.

So where is the line in the sand to stand up for yourself? What if fist fighting Incognito changes nothing? Then what? Bring a knife? Shoot the bastard? What do you do to get a sociopath to leave you alone short of maiming or killing him?

TexansSeminole
11-05-2013, 08:00 PM
Shouldn't have worn that short skirt!

Oh wait, wrong topic.

Blaming the victim just perpetuates the stupidity.

So where is the line in the sand to stand up for yourself? What if fist fighting Incognito changes nothing? Then what? Bring a knife? Shoot the bastard? What do you do to get a sociopath to leave you alone short of maiming or killing him?

His whole argument in regards to "you're not a freshman in college anymore, you're a grown ass man," is backwards. Maybe when you are younger, you will have a higher chance of actually fighting back. When you are older, you are more mature and understand that it accomplishes nothing to fight a guy like Incognito.

It's pure stupidity and immaturity by Antrel Rolle to put any blame on Martin.

Honoring Earl 34
11-05-2013, 08:23 PM
Shouldn't have worn that short skirt!

Oh wait, wrong topic.

Blaming the victim just perpetuates the stupidity.

So where is the line in the sand to stand up for yourself? What if fist fighting Incognito changes nothing? Then what? Bring a knife? Shoot the bastard? What do you do to get a sociopath to leave you alone short of maiming or killing him?

I think a mild bully you hit back and it's over . Richie is more like Dracula where you would have to put a stake in him . That's why the Dolphins have been bad . It's more about taking rookies manhood or visa card than it is about building a team .

I wonder what Jake Long thinks about it ?

Texn4life
11-05-2013, 10:12 PM
What keeps coming to mind is the Gilbert arenas and Jabaris crittenton incident. Two idiots take an idiotic beef to new lows. I don't see Martin escalating a fight to the point where guns are drawn but a stupid animal like incognito probably would. Fighting incognito or smacking him in the mouth would not resolve any issues with that sack of schit.

You're right, and honestly I make a ton of bad decisions all the time. I applaud Martin for his courage to walk away. I just couldn't do it though.

On another note Antrell Rolle is an idiot. Guys like that don't even need to be given a platform to speak.

steelbtexan
11-05-2013, 11:18 PM
According to people on this board, they were just trying to "toughen him up..."

There's a story on PFT right now about the Dolphins coaches wanting Incognito to toughen Martin up.

So it looks like my deductive reasoning may have been correct.

Lucky
11-05-2013, 11:24 PM
Basically, this is Antonio Smith's fault. For missing Incognito's skull with his helmet.

dtran04
11-05-2013, 11:47 PM
Sounds like Incognito's people leaked that to take the Dolphins down with him.

thunderkyss
11-06-2013, 03:15 AM
Didn't read the whole thread, just wanted to put my two cents in.

1) I agree with anyone who says a grown man shouldn't be the victim of bullying. Especially not one of the bigger guys on an NFL football team that you expect a high level of toughness from.

2) $15,000.... that's not hazing. That's criminal & I'm surprised Incognito isn't behind bars right now.

IDEXAN
11-06-2013, 07:05 AM
On another note Antrell Rolle is an idiot. Guys like that don't even need to be given a platform to speak.
So you don't like his opinion on this situation, and therefor you think his opportunity to express his opinion should be revoked, right ?
Hey, I suspect it's MOL the opinion of the majority of NFL players. Bet if you'd ask what another hard-azz NFL CB like the Texans Kareem Jackson thinks you'd get the same kinda comments.

IDEXAN
11-06-2013, 07:30 AM
Denver Broncos defensive tackle Terrance Knighton thinks Martin broke the code of the locker room by leaving it.

"Everybody in the NFL knows that when you're a young guy and when you're with the O-line you've got it the hardest," Knighton says. "I mean, that's been going on for a while. ... I don't know where they crossed the line at; maybe (Incognito) said something personal.

"I feel like, as players, when it is player-to-player, it can be handled as players. It can be addressed. I don't think (Martin) should have gone outside the team and expressed how things are going in the locker room."
*****
That's not only a player perspective. Duke professor of sports psychology and sports ethics Greg Dale thinks it is a male perspective.

"I was teaching my class at Duke to a group of undergrads, and we were talking about this very thing in class," Dale says. "And the comments from several of the young men were, 'Well, he really needed to man up. He's a man, and you've got to handle that on your own. He shouldn't have walked away.' And that's the core of the problem right there."
*****
Rich Gannon, a former league MVP, says rookies are often asked to foot the bill for restaurant meals while veterans order bottles of rare champagne and ring up cumulative tabs of $30,000 to $40,000, a high-priced version of the playground bully who steals your lunch money.
"Then I went to Kansas City where I didn't see any of it," he says. "Marty Schottenheimer created a great situation where older guys mentored younger guys. Then I went out to Oakland, and I almost got sick to my stomach at how bad it was."
*****

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/11/05/bullying-jonathan-martin-richie-incognito/3449621/
*****
Gannon's remarks are particular instructive as he points out the value of strong leadership, be it from a HC like Marty Schottenheimer or a leader on the field like Peyton Manning.
Hey if it gets racial, it's definitely over the line. And if it's illegal, well it's illegal. Short of that, where's the line ? You tell me ?

2012Champs
11-06-2013, 07:46 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/11/05/bullying-jonathan-martin-richie-incognito/3449621/
*****
Gannon's remarks are particular instructive as he points out the value of strong leadership, be it from a HC like Marty Schottenheimer or a leader on the field like Peyton Manning.
Hey if it gets racial, it's definitely over the line. And if it's illegal, well it's illegal. Short of that, where's the line ? You tell me ?


The line is where your employer/the law says it it. It's just the way it is, this is how it's always been, it's a football thing or male thing is just an excuse for poor behavior. The nfl and it's teams are employers and have to afford some protection to its employees and while we see it as a game it's not that simple

chicagotexan2
11-06-2013, 08:10 AM
You're right, and honestly I make a ton of bad decisions all the time. I applaud Martin for his courage to walk away. I just couldn't do it though.

On another note Antrell Rolle is an idiot. Guys like that don't even need to be given a platform to speak.

Im with you in that I can say Martin did the right thing, but I don't think I'd be able to show the same level of restraint. And that decision would cost me my job. And at the end og the day Incognito would still win.

IDEXAN
11-06-2013, 08:16 AM
The line is where your employer/the law says it it. It's just the way it is, this is how it's always been, it's a football thing or male thing is just an excuse for poor behavior. The nfl and it's teams are employers and have to afford some protection to its employees and while we see it as a game it's not that simple
The law is a constant marker/line for behavior, but apparently not so the employer as Gannon points out here the disparity between a KC and an Oakland.

RazorOye
11-06-2013, 08:19 AM
- If Martin bypassed and just left the team without telling anyone, probably not the right thing to do.


why not?

I keep seeing this sentiment pop up and to de-contextualize it this way seems to miss the importance of power and its structure in the situation. The nature of the abuse/harassment takes place with a lot of other complicit bodies and a power structure in a locker room. The clout that Incognito (allegedly) had speaks volumes about how that power dynamic played out.

All of this armchair quarterbacking, er.... offensive tackling (?) after the fact about what he should or should not have done seems beside that point.

Martin inverted the power dynamic.

All of the "He shoulda wooped that guy" is about one thing, right? Turning the tables on the bully. Challenging that power hierarchy.

You know what else does that? And does it even better? Doing what Martin did. Let's say he stands up to him - he risks getting his butt kicked and the same thing just continues in perpetuity. Or until Incognito is gone or wears out his welcome. Again.

Let's say Martin wins. Does that stop Incognito? Doubtful. Maybe I'm psychoanalyzing here, but going with his history, I think it's a reasonable conclusion.

Doing it this way, the power dynamic is completely changed in a more effective and permanent way. It's shifted. I know Martin is a well read dude. Maybe he was reading Sun Tzu or Mind**** Your Enemies For Dummies. I don't know.

BUt I do know that the cretin that occupied the top of the power structure is now having to (in his words) "weather the storm." That doesn't happen if Martin fights him, win, lose, or draw.

And Martin risked a lot by taking the tact he did. I think calling him a "coward" or trying to depict this as "walking away" is an oversimplification and ignores the gravity in the choice that he made. (edit: this is a general comment, silvr - not directed at you. Actually, that goes for a bit of this post, using yours as a sort of launching point rather than a direct response/contradiction)

So far it looks to me like he did the "right" thing in a lot of ways. Incognito loses power in more than an interim basis. We have a broader social discussion of this type of issue - the discussion has transcended the NFL and has even been mentioned in the context of schools. Martin challenges and complicates (and potentially reverses, in some ways) his portrayal as simply victim and becomes partly advocate.

I have trouble faulting Martin for any of his decisions and his choice has changed the dynamics of the power relationship in a way that wouldn't have been remotely possible in the locker room itself.

2012Champs
11-06-2013, 08:21 AM
The law is a constant marker/line for behavior, but apparently not so the employer as Gannon points out here the disparity between a KC and an Oakland.



Thanks for pointing out the obvious in my post. Are KC and Oakland the same employer?

Playoffs
11-06-2013, 08:23 AM
I'm just waiting for Incognito to play the victim, now. It's coming. Most bullies go to the victim ploy when confronted about their bullying/bad behavior. Tick, tock, tick....

disaacks3
11-06-2013, 08:38 AM
So you don't like his opinion on this situation, and therefore you think his opportunity to express his opinion should be revoked, right ?

Hey, I suspect it's MOL the opinion of the majority of NFL players. Bet if you'd ask what another hard-azz NFL CB like the Texans Kareem Jackson thinks you'd get the same kinda comments. And that's the goddamn neanderthal mentality that makes guys like Aaron Hernandez and his whole "respect" schtick think they can literally get away with murder. If you think that conduct doesn't stem from the same dark place, you're sorely mistaken.

You know what else does that? And does it even better? Doing what Martin did. Let's say he stands up to him - he risks getting his butt kicked and the same thing just continues in perpetuity. Or until Incognito is gone or wears out his welcome. Again.

Doing it this way, the power dynamic is completely changed in a more effective and permanent way. A thousand times this.

After listening to Travis Johnson this morning, it simply affirms my belief that some of these cretins just don't get it. Evidently the only way to "man up" in this situation is to try and beat the Hell out of Incognito. Never once did I hear "well yeah, the system is broke". Nope, I heard the same machismo bull**** that leads to gang shootings.

Hell, I'm not the type that believes that violence never solves anything, and I truly wish that Martin had pounded Incognito into next week. That said, you can't fix the mentality without a huge paradigm shift in the way that locker rooms are maintained in the NFL. "Boys will be Boys" gets us gang warfare, rape culture, and now this. That NFL players think Martin "brought this upon himself" speaks volumes about how far the behavior must shift to be anywhere close to societal normal.

Rey
11-06-2013, 09:35 AM
I don't see how Martin will play in the nfl again.

Incognito is an idiot. We know that. But you can't be in a locker room and be a lamb. You don't have to be a predator, but you definitely can't be the prey. If I'm a player on the team, I'm skeptical about this guy playing next to me because I don't know if things get sketchy if this guy will wilt because the opposing players are intimidating him. If you see a guy twisting my ankle are you going to have the audacity to push him off if me?

I have no issue with Martin as a human being. I have no issue with anyone that won't fight, gets intimidated, or just avoids confrontation (I don't know if that's the case here). But just speaking from a football perspective, or anything that involves going into a hostile environment....you want to be with people that will boss up.


All that said, incognito should be suspended by the team...not the nfl. The team shouldn't want that kind of behavior going on in their locker rooms.

IDEXAN
11-06-2013, 09:43 AM
Miami Dolphins coaches reportedly told suspended lineman Richie Incognito to "toughen up" teammate Johnathan Martin after the latter player missed part of the team's offseason workout program, a new report claimed Tuesday evening.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/11/06/new-report-claims-miami-coaches-told-incognito-to-toughen-up-martin/
******
Who else remembers one Seth Wand, former Houston Texans' offensive lineman and one time starting LT for the team ? There's some definite similarities here.

IlliniJen
11-06-2013, 10:12 AM
I don't see how Martin will play in the nfl again.

Incognito is an idiot. We know that. But you can't be in a locker room and be a lamb. You don't have to be a predator, but you definitely can't be the prey. If I'm a player on the team, I'm skeptical about this guy playing next to me because I don't know if things get sketchy if this guy will wilt because the opposing players are intimidating him. If you see a guy twisting my ankle are you going to have the audacity to push him off if me?

I have no issue with Martin as a human being. I have no issue with anyone that won't fight, gets intimidated, or just avoids confrontation (I don't know if that's the case here). But just speaking from a football perspective, or anything that involves going into a hostile environment....you want to be with people that will boss up.


All that said, incognito should be suspended by the team...not the nfl. The team shouldn't want that kind of behavior going on in their locker rooms.

One doesn't "toughen" up to beat depression. You don't "nut up" and get over depression.

Sounds like another athlete falls victim to a sport and a macho mentality that is ill equipped to deal with a COMMON psychological issue like depression. Sounds like the NFL needs to ditch pink October and do something to raise mental health awareness.

Texn4life
11-06-2013, 10:26 AM
One doesn't "toughen" up to beat depression. You don't "nut up" and get over depression.

Sounds like another athlete falls victim to a sport and a macho mentality that is ill equipped to deal with a COMMON psychological issue like depression. Sounds like the NFL needs to ditch pink October and do something to raise mental health awareness.

This is a good post Jen..... I've played with guys who were "different". They did get messed with I'm not going to lie. At the end of the day I don't care what you do off of the field. I do need you to be a warrior on the field though. If a guy doesn't stand up for himself off of the field I'm not going to think he won't on it. To me they're 2 different environments. I'm a crazy, competitive person who goes off on you when I'm playing, but I'm super laid back off the field. We need to accept those who are different and not put them in a box.

IDEXAN
11-06-2013, 10:33 AM
One doesn't "toughen" up to beat depression. You don't "nut up" and get over depression.

Sounds like another athlete falls victim to a sport and a macho mentality that is ill equipped to deal with a COMMON psychological issue like depression. Sounds like the NFL needs to ditch pink October and do something to raise mental health awareness.
Or maybe sounds like an athlete who's ill equipped to deal with the macho mentality of the NFL, atleast that's what some other league vets are wondering ?

steelbtexan
11-06-2013, 10:47 AM
why not?

I keep seeing this sentiment pop up and to de-contextualize it this way seems to miss the importance of power and its structure in the situation. The nature of the abuse/harassment takes place with a lot of other complicit bodies and a power structure in a locker room. The clout that Incognito (allegedly) had speaks volumes about how that power dynamic played out.

All of this armchair quarterbacking, er.... offensive tackling (?) after the fact about what he should or should not have done seems beside that point.

Martin inverted the power dynamic.

All of the "He shoulda wooped that guy" is about one thing, right? Turning the tables on the bully. Challenging that power hierarchy.

You know what else does that? And does it even better? Doing what Martin did. Let's say he stands up to him - he risks getting his butt kicked and the same thing just continues in perpetuity. Or until Incognito is gone or wears out his welcome. Again.

Let's say Martin wins. Does that stop Incognito? Doubtful. Maybe I'm psychoanalyzing here, but going with his history, I think it's a reasonable conclusion.

Doing it this way, the power dynamic is completely changed in a more effective and permanent way. It's shifted. I know Martin is a well read dude. Maybe he was reading Sun Tzu or Mind**** Your Enemies For Dummies. I don't know.

BUt I do know that the cretin that occupied the top of the power structure is now having to (in his words) "weather the storm." That doesn't happen if Martin fights him, win, lose, or draw.

And Martin risked a lot by taking the tact he did. I think calling him a "coward" or trying to depict this as "walking away" is an oversimplification and ignores the gravity in the choice that he made. (edit: this is a general comment, silvr - not directed at you. Actually, that goes for a bit of this post, using yours as a sort of launching point rather than a direct response/contradiction)

So far it looks to me like he did the "right" thing in a lot of ways. Incognito loses power in more than an interim basis. We have a broader social discussion of this type of issue - the discussion has transcended the NFL and has even been mentioned in the context of schools. Martin challenges and complicates (and potentially reverses, in some ways) his portrayal as simply victim and becomes partly advocate.

I have trouble faulting Martin for any of his decisions and his choice has changed the dynamics of the power relationship in a way that wouldn't have been remotely possible in the locker room itself.

Martin broke the lockerroom code. I doubt he plays for the Dolphins, or any other teams in the NFL.

Hiring Martin is more trouble than it's worth and very few of his teammates will respect him if he tries to play for another team. Martin effectively killed his career, but he reversed the power structure. Not that football ever meant that much to him in the 1st place.

The lockeroom attitudes are also why gay players will never come out of the closet.

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 10:55 AM
I think a mild bully you hit back and it's over . Richie is more like Dracula where you would have to put a stake in him . That's why the Dolphins have been bad . It's more about taking rookies manhood or visa card than it is about building a team .

I wonder what Jake Long thinks about it ?

Great comparison.

Everyone keeps saying punch a bully in the face, but what if that bully has antisocial personality disorder (https://www.google.com/search?q=sociiopath+definitino&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7MXGB_enUS531#q=sociopath+definition&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&spell=1) (basically a sociopath).

Beating them only feeds the beast and elevates the situation to new levels of depravity.

For instance, the Robert De Niro character in Cape Fear: Bully or sociopath/psychopath?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ksn8kvrKi31qzexpio1_500.jpg

The normal "rules of engagement" for dealing with typical bullies do not apply or work with sociopaths.

And this is where I think the story has become lost in translation. Incognito was more than just a bully. Dude crossed so many lines that his behavior goes into the category of mental depravity. This kind of mind does not hear reason, does not respond to respect, does not back down in confrontation or even getting his own ass kicked in.

Johnathan Martin's teammates have said he has stood up for himself and fought other linemen. Dude is not the wimp he's being portrayed.

But who here is really equipped to deal with a sociopath that is threatening to sexually assault your mother?

One doesn't "toughen" up to beat depression. You don't "nut up" and get over depression.

Sounds like another athlete falls victim to a sport and a macho mentality that is ill equipped to deal with a COMMON psychological issue like depression. Sounds like the NFL needs to ditch pink October and do something to raise mental health awareness.

Awesome point, but we know it will never happen. Pink month is about marketing as much as anything else. Shedding light on the mental health of players carries risks that could "damage the shield". While I think your suggestion is one of the best I've heard as it pertains to the league taking care of players, we know it will never happen because the NFL likes to bury its dirty laundry and act like nothing happened.

Texn4life
11-06-2013, 10:57 AM
Martin broke the lockerroom code. I doubt he plays for the Dolphins, or any other teams in the NFL.

Hiring Martin is more trouble than it's worth and very few of his teammates will respect him if he tries to play for another team. Martin effectively killed his career, but he reversed the power structure. Not that football ever meant that much to him in the 1st place.

The lockeroom attitudes are also why gay players will never come out of the closet.

Haha, what locker room code did you break? He walked away and had to explain why he walked away. He had racial and death threats thrown his way........ man I hope you have a son that deals with the same crap and think locker room code needs to be upheld. Locker room code is a brotherhood. I would never make my brother feel less like a man. The idiots bringing up this stuff don't know what they're talking about.

Texn4life
11-06-2013, 10:58 AM
Martin broke the lockerroom code. I doubt he plays for the Dolphins, or any other teams in the NFL.

Hiring Martin is more trouble than it's worth and very few of his teammates will respect him if he tries to play for another team. Martin effectively killed his career, but he reversed the power structure. Not that football ever meant that much to him in the 1st place.

The lockeroom attitudes are also why gay players will never come out of the closet.

Haha, what locker room code did he break? He walked away and had to explain why he walked away. He had racial and death threats thrown his way........ man I hope you have a son that deals with the same crap and think locker room code needs to be upheld. Locker room code is a brotherhood. I would never make my brother feel less like a man. The idiots bringing up this stuff don't know what they're talking about.

Playoffs
11-06-2013, 11:18 AM
Martin is gone because he had no code,

He is gone because he had no honor,

and God was watching.

'Unit, Team, God, Country'

http://cdn.straightfromthea.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/You+Cant+Handle+The+Truth.gif

IDEXAN
11-06-2013, 11:20 AM
Haha, what locker room code did he break? He walked away and had to explain why he walked away. He had racial and death threats thrown his way........ man I hope you have a son that deals with the same crap and think locker room code needs to be upheld. Locker room code is a brotherhood. I would never make my brother feel less like a man. The idiots bringing up this stuff don't know what they're talking about.
The agreement here is unanimous that if Incognito made racial threats or certainly if there was anything illicit in nature, then absolutely a line had been crossed. Now it's down to a definitive statement of where the line is for the rest of it, the bullying, the intimidation, or however you choose to describe it.

RazorOye
11-06-2013, 11:23 AM
Martin broke the lockerroom code. I doubt he plays for the Dolphins, or any other teams in the NFL.

**** the locker room "code" and the default belief that treats abuse as permissive because it happens in a locker room. Did McQueary fear violating the locker room "code"? I'm with Jen who thinks that maybe we need to take a look at the broken-ness of this mentality.

there's nothing special about the sanctity of a locker room as a space that's held above or different from other spaces. It doesn't (or, rather, shouldn't) be some area of default immunity for extreme sources of harassment or abuse or bullying or whatever else.

I played. I am coaching. I'm in a locker room all the time.

I 'get' the locker room. But there are things that transcend the locker room and go beyond the code.

What makes the locker room different from any other work place or team spot?

"Teacher's Lounge code"?

"Executive Board Meeting code"?

You know who else broke the locker room "code"? Incognito. Phone messages. Texts. Even assuming you're right (and I think it's a cop out, personally) and the locker room is some sort of hallowed ground where anything goes and should be kept private, then doesn't Incognito lose that once he breaches the locker room?

How is what Martin did a violation of this floating, arbitrary definition of a coded space but not what Incognito did?

Before closing, I'll make one thing clear. Martin may very well never play another down in the NFL or suit up for another team. And maybe you'll once again fall all over yourself in an attempt to clap yourself on the back for being "right." That might be a correct guess on your part.

But that's ignoring the larger issue. And that's one where you're wrong.

Texn4life
11-06-2013, 11:28 AM
The agreement here is unanimous that if Incognito made racial threats or certainly if there was anything illicit in nature, then absolutely a line had been crossed. Now it's down to a definitive statement of where the line is for the rest of it, the bullying, the intimidation, or however you choose to describe it.

For me there is nothing to talk about. I've seen hazing going on and seen guys beat up. It was stupid then and its stupid now. If one of those guys would have said something and the people responsible for it would have been punished I wouldn't think less of them. That's honestly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I loved every teammate I've ever played with. I always welcomed them with open arms and let them know that whatever they needed I'll help them. To me thats locker room code. A guy does have to earn his stripes and he should go through a little ribbing, but it should all be in fun. All this other BS to me is people who are losers in life trying to make it more than what it needs to be.

Playoffs
11-06-2013, 11:30 AM
Sources: Dolphins coaches asked Incognito to toughen up Martin (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-miami-dolphins-hazing-1106-20131105,0,1628986.story)
Miami Dolphins coaches asked player Richie Incognito, who was the offensive line's undisputed leader, to toughen up teammate Jonathan Martin after he missed a voluntary workout last spring, multiple sources told the Sun Sentinel.

The sources told the paper they believe that Incognito, who is accused of using racially incendiary language and bullying tactics against Martin, may have taken those orders too far.

IlliniJen
11-06-2013, 12:22 PM
Or maybe sounds like an athlete who's ill equipped to deal with the macho mentality of the NFL, atleast that's what some other league vets are wondering ?

The other vets and their "code" are all part of a systemic disease that helps breed and nurture horrible human beings like Incognito.

There are a number of successful programs in the NFL and strong head coaches who ban hazing from their team and somehow they manage to do quite well and win Superbowls.

There's something inherently dysfunctional in the social structure and mores of a culture that relies on brutish behavior to force others to get in line with everyone else. Other teams have built cultures around brotherhood without using a stick to do so...Miami seems to have encouraged a culture of trying to prod a kid to be like everyone else while making no attempt to understand why he might not be like everyone else.

This kid needed a mentor and a brother, and instead he got "Hulk smash!" from one of the least respected players in the game who has been kicked out of every organization he's been with.

eriadoc
11-06-2013, 01:01 PM
I just feel the need to point out that Antonio Smith has stood up to Incognito several times in his career, dating back to his time with the Cards. Hasn't stopped Incognito from being a bully toward him. In fact, not only did it not stop Incognito, but a significant segment of the NFL watching populace considered Smith's retaliation unacceptable, and he was fined and suspended for it. So for his efforts, Smith lost money, the team lost a player for a game, and he still has to deal with Incognito.

Yeah, that punch him in the mouth thing works real well, huh?

htownfan32
11-06-2013, 01:05 PM
**** the locker room "code" and the default belief that treats abuse as permissive because it happens in a locker room. Did McQueary fear violating the locker room "code"? I'm with Jen who thinks that maybe we need to take a look at the broken-ness of this mentality.

there's nothing special about the sanctity of a locker room as a space that's held above or different from other spaces. It doesn't (or, rather, shouldn't) be some area of default immunity for extreme sources of harassment or abuse or bullying or whatever else.

I played. I am coaching. I'm in a locker room all the time.

I 'get' the locker room. But there are things that transcend the locker room and go beyond the code.

What makes the locker room different from any other work place or team spot?

"Teacher's Lounge code"?

"Executive Board Meeting code"?

You know who else broke the locker room "code"? Incognito. Phone messages. Texts. Even assuming you're right (and I think it's a cop out, personally) and the locker room is some sort of hallowed ground where anything goes and should be kept private, then doesn't Incognito lose that once he breaches the locker room?

How is what Martin did a violation of this floating, arbitrary definition of a coded space but not what Incognito did?

Before closing, I'll make one thing clear. Martin may very well never play another down in the NFL or suit up for another team. And maybe you'll once again fall all over yourself in an attempt to clap yourself on the back for being "right." That might be a correct guess on your part.

But that's ignoring the larger issue. And that's one where you're wrong.

MSR, man.

toronto
11-06-2013, 02:09 PM
Martin broke the lockerroom code. I doubt he plays for the Dolphins, or any other teams in the NFL.

Hiring Martin is more trouble than it's worth and very few of his teammates will respect him if he tries to play for another team. Martin effectively killed his career, but he reversed the power structure. Not that football ever meant that much to him in the 1st place.
The lockeroom attitudes are also why gay players will never come out of the closet.

You don't know that.

But one thing for sure is I'll never encourage my sons to play football. Its clearly not worth it. There are better ways to learn life lessons than this crap, and thats before we even get into actual football injuries.

Scooter
11-06-2013, 02:12 PM
a bad situation, but there are some good discussions resulting from it. depression and mental illness, bullying, acceptable social norms, and many others. hopefully these talks will help bring about some change for the better. i dont think much of that applies in this situation though, because ...

The normal "rules of engagement" for dealing with typical bullies do not apply or work with sociopaths.

And this is where I think the story has become lost in translation. Incognito was more than just a bully. Dude crossed so many lines that his behavior goes into the category of mental depravity. This kind of mind does not hear reason, does not respond to respect, does not back down in confrontation or even getting his own ass kicked in.

Johnathan Martin's teammates have said he has stood up for himself and fought other linemen. Dude is not the wimp he's being portrayed.

incognito is nuckin futs. if i said a year ago that a headline would read "richie incognito torments teammate to the point of quitting", anyone who wouldnt have believed it would lose ten common sense points. without ever giving the victim a name, it was a very plausible and probably scenario. martin just happened to be the victim's name.

if i said in 10 years a headline will read "richie incognito arrested on suspicion of double homicide". will you be surprised? of course not, and again a victim's name isnt required because it could be anybody. what's going to happen when he doesnt have 300lb manliest of men to let his mental instability out on? what happens when he runs out of money? he's already stealing from teammates, he's going to have to fund his lifestyle somehow and i doubt it's going to be by working at home depot. dude is a sociopath and a danger to anyone around him.

Dutchrudder
11-06-2013, 02:26 PM
I think it's pretty awesome how Martin basically ruined Incognito's career. Punching him might feel good in the short term, but destroying the guy's reputation, publicly displaying his *******ry and costing him millions of dollars in lost earnings has to be much more satisfying.

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 02:44 PM
I just feel the need to point out that Antonio Smith has stood up to Incognito several times in his career, dating back to his time with the Cards. Hasn't stopped Incognito from being a bully toward him. In fact, not only did it not stop Incognito, but a significant segment of the NFL watching populace considered Smith's retaliation unacceptable, and he was fined and suspended for it. So for his efforts, Smith lost money, the team lost a player for a game, and he still has to deal with Incognito.

Yeah, that punch him in the mouth thing works real well, huh?

Smith was on his weekly radio show last night and said pretty much the same thing, although carefully worded to avoid any potential NFL backlash.

He basically said Incognito has been a POS everywhere he's been and obviously none of this surprises him at all. Incognito's first year surprised Smith, though, but mainly because Incognito had signed a contract with conditions to change his behavior. Smith thought he was being punk'd or something because Incognito was so out of character. Obviously, he was acting for his contract extension.

houstonspartan
11-06-2013, 02:50 PM
I think it's pretty awesome how Martin basically ruined Incognito's career. Punching him might feel good in the short term, but destroying the guy's reputation, publicly displaying his *******ry and costing him millions of dollars in lost earnings has to be much more satisfying.

Yep. People wanted Martin to kick his butt, or bring in a shot gun and blow his brains out because "that's what real men do."

But, Martin will win the war, here. Not only will he ruin Ingonitio's career and likely cost him millions, he could also sue Incognitio, the Dolphins AND the NFL for damages. And would probably win.

Notice how he kept all the text messages and voice mails.

Martin is extremely smart and strong, in my opinion. Not at all "weak."

Playoffs
11-06-2013, 02:55 PM
This story is evolving now into one of Martin being hyper-sensitive and Incognito's and other's player's actions as being crass but normal course of business for the Dolphins...


If you're that last guy to sit down at a meal, the table gets up & moves. Philbin was supposedly similarly pranked
Incognito was asked by position coaches to "train" or "toughen up" Martin after Martin skipped OTAs, to "bring him into the circle"
Financial shakedowns & rookie kangaroo courts were institutionalized
There is a culture of acceptance of non-blacks using the "N" word in certain circles, including some NFL environments

Although some players have backed Incognito, others stated they would have objected to the extent and nature of Incognito's off the clock communications. Some of the dialogue appears to be changing from disgust to realization.

Not that I agree, but it's what I'm seeing fwiw.

The1ApplePie
11-06-2013, 03:09 PM
Incognito was an "honorary black guy" in the locker according to the Miami Herald:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html#storylink=cpy

houstonspartan
11-06-2013, 03:11 PM
Incognito was an "honorary black guy" in the locker according to the Miami Herald:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html

Again: stupid comes in all colors. Those black players are morons.

I think Martin was shunned because he has two parents that are Harvard-educated, and he had a good life. That does not go over well with a lot of people. Sad, but true.

Playoffs
11-06-2013, 03:18 PM
...in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.


Mmmmkay, so the white guy is black but the black guy is not. Natch.

When are they just going to admit the team ordered a Code Red on Martin?

2012Champs
11-06-2013, 03:27 PM
Again: stupid comes in all colors. Those black players are morons.

I think Martin was shunned because he has two parents that are Harvard-educated, and he had a good life. That does not go over well with a lot of people. Sad, but true.



Sad my thoughts as I read it were nearly exact to yours

Texn4life
11-06-2013, 03:38 PM
This story may make my head explode. The more I read the more disgusted I become. I have a lack of respect for all Dolphins players after reading that trash. "Honorary black man"? Are these fools serious?

Dutchrudder
11-06-2013, 03:46 PM
Well now, that's a unique way of qualifying Richie's remarks. If the Dolphins offense was that creative, they might not have lost to Buffalo.

Texn4life
11-06-2013, 03:56 PM
You know what..... I'm ashamed at the black players on that team. That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Black people love Larry Bird, Bill Clinton, Eminem. That doesn't make them honarary black people. It just makes them cool people being who they are. Man, I'm so upset by this its not even funny and I probably shouldn't be. Every single one of those dudes that said that needs to be punched in the face. Could you imagine the uproar of someone saying "he's an honorary white person"? That **** sounds ridiculous man.

IDEXAN
11-06-2013, 04:22 PM
ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

“They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

How is this possible?

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html#storylink=cpy
*********
It's well known many blacks feel that usage of the N-word is acceptable by
blacks between themselves and it turns out Richie himself is exempt from charges of racism if he uses it because he's viewed by black team members as an "honorary" Bro. And actually he's considered blacker than Martin by black team members. Now that's some really fascinating stuff.

2012Champs
11-06-2013, 04:31 PM
ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

“They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

How is this possible?

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html#storylink=cpy
*********
It's well known many blacks feel that usage of the N-word is acceptable by
blacks between themselves and it turns out Richie himself is exempt from charges of racism if he uses it because he's viewed by black team members as an "honorary" Bro. And actually he's considered blacker than Martin by black team members. Now that's some really fascinating stuff.




lets say I have a friend who is african american and is okay with my use of the n word and gives me a pass, that pass is not good for me to us on every other person. Its not sad someone is labeled a racist for saying racist things to a person of another race.

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 04:55 PM
Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

The whole race thing just jumped the freakin' shark.

I'm sure this is exactly the dream that the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. was talking about in his historic speech for future generations about race relations and equality. (obvious sarcasm)

You know, I've heard over and over again (from players, of course) that none of us could possibly understand a pro football locker room. And now, I'm beginning to think that I don't want to understand it. It's like bizarro world. Maybe all these men have suffered from too much CTE. I'm not sarcastic about this part.

steelbtexan
11-06-2013, 05:06 PM
Haha, what locker room code did he break? He walked away and had to explain why he walked away. He had racial and death threats thrown his way........ man I hope you have a son that deals with the same crap and think locker room code needs to be upheld. Locker room code is a brotherhood. I would never make my brother feel less like a man. The idiots bringing up this stuff don't know what they're talking about.

Several Dolphin players,Tannehill, Pouncey, Wallace,Clay, the Giants Antrel Rolle, Issac Bruce etc..... feel like he broke the code by taking his problems outside the locker room.

I'm not saying Incognito is right, but Martin's teammates seem to be siding with Incognito. Would you want Martin on the Texans? I know that I wouldn't. Football isn't important to him and this is where the problems between Incognito (Football comes 1st) and Martin (Football is not that important) began. This is also the reason for Incognito's teammates backing him up.

Martin saved those text messages for 6 months. Why not turn them in at the time it happened? Could it be he's hiding from his poor play this yr? Could it be because his teammates knew that Martin could not be trusted when times got tough?

Maybe, because when times got tough Martin quit his team. Supposedly Martin/Incognito were best friends, I wonder what could've gone so wrong?

houstonspartan
11-06-2013, 05:34 PM
Several Dolphin players,Tannehill, Pouncey, Wallace,Clay, the Giants Antrel Rolle, Issac Bruce etc..... feel like he broke the code by taking his problems outside the locker room.

I'm not saying Incognito is right, but Martin's teammates seem to be siding with Incognito. Would you want Martin on the Texans? I know that I wouldn't. Football isn't important to him and this is where the problems between Incognito (Football comes 1st) and Martin (Football is not that important) began. This is also the reason for Incognito's teammates backing him up.

Martin saved those text messages for 6 months. Why not turn them in at the time it happened? Could it be he's hiding from his poor play this yr? Could it be because his teammates knew that Martin could not be trusted when times got tough?

Maybe, because when times got tough Martin quit his team. Supposedly Martin/Incognito were best friends, I wonder what could've gone so wrong?

Please stop with the "hiding from his poor play" nonsense. He probably didn't turn them in because he felt attacked from all sides. If, as has been rumored, that the direction came from the Dolphin's management to "toughen him up," that means the guy was essentially all alone, and had NO ONE to talk to. About ANYTHING.

And, as I have said before, if he was playing poorly, why not just cut him? Teams do it all the time (except for the Texans. lol).

Texn4life
11-06-2013, 05:35 PM
Several Dolphin players,Tannehill, Pouncey, Wallace,Clay, the Giants Antrel Rolle, Issac Bruce etc..... feel like he broke the code by taking his problems outside the locker room.

I'm not saying Incognito is right, but Martin's teammates seem to be siding with Incognito. Would you want Martin on the Texans? I know that I wouldn't. Football isn't important to him and this is where the problems between Incognito (Football comes 1st) and Martin (Football is not that important) began. This is also the reason for Incognito's teammates backing him up.

Martin saved those text messages for 6 months. Why not turn them in at the time it happened? Could it be he's hiding from his poor play this yr? Could it be because his teammates knew that Martin could not be trusted when times got tough?

Maybe, because when times got tough Martin quit his team. Supposedly Martin/Incognito were best friends, I wonder what could've gone so wrong?

I'll address this post more at length later, but the day I listen to any of those dudes and take them serious is the day I'll jump off a bridge. Everyone of them is an idiot with the exception of Bruce who probably is too. One of them openly supported a murderer...... You're gonna reference that dude? for real for real?

Txn_in_Oki
11-06-2013, 05:58 PM
I think it's pretty awesome how Martin basically ruined Incognito's career. Punching him might feel good in the short term, but destroying the guy's reputation, publicly displaying his *******ry and costing him millions of dollars in lost earnings has to be much more satisfying.

If you think Incognito's career is ruined from this than I think you are completely wrong. If Incognito is cut someone will pick him up and I think there is a better chance of him still being on the team rather than Martin.

This is one of those arguments that neither side will ever see or understand the point that the other side is trying get at.

steelbtexan
11-06-2013, 06:07 PM
Who would you rather have protecting your QB, Incognito or Martin?

TexansSeminole
11-07-2013, 09:16 AM
Link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/06/sources-ireland-suggested-that-martin-confront-incognito-physically/)

Per multiple league sources, Dolphins G.M. Jeff Ireland received a call from Martin’s agent, Rick Smith, before Martin left the team on October 28. Smith complained to Ireland about the manner in which Incognito was treating Martin.

Ireland, according to the sources, suggested to Smith that Martin physically confront Incognito. Ireland specifically mentioned that Martin should “punch” Incognito.

PR nightmare for Miami.

If this is true, it's no wonder he left the team. His teammates are friggin' idiots, no help there. The GM's solution is "just punch him," no help there.

Playoffs
11-07-2013, 09:25 AM
http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/11/04/Twitter-Pic-1_20131104130403867_600_400.JPG

Dolphins G.M. Jeff Ireland told Martin’s agent, Rick Smith, that Martin should “punch” Incognito (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/06/sources-ireland-suggested-that-martin-confront-incognito-physically/)
Per multiple league sources, Dolphins G.M. Jeff Ireland received a call from Martin’s agent, Rick Smith, before Martin left the team on October 28. Smith complained to Ireland about the manner in which Incognito was treating Martin.

Ireland, according to the sources, suggested to Smith that Martin physically confront Incognito. Ireland specifically mentioned that Martin should “punch” Incognito...

So this whole thing was a psychological ploy engineered by the ever classy Jeff Ireland (http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/sage-rosenfels-blasts-dolphins-gm-jeff-ireland/)...?

Dread-Head
11-07-2013, 10:12 AM
...in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.
And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.


Mmmmkay, so the white guy is black but the black guy is not. Natch.

When are they just going to admit the team ordered a Code Red on Martin?


Growing up there would always be that ONE white guy or Latino who kicked it with a group of brothas and would essentially be seen as "one of us" BUT the guy in question wouldn't be dropping N-bombs. The individual in question would be seen as EITHER "cool as hell" or a "crazy muff-hugga". That might have changed since a billion years ago when I was growing up, but to me it just looks like Incognito is a jerk, but his team mates are sticking by him because that's what you do.The prevailing attitude is "The guy's an a-hole, but he's OUR a-hole."

Dread-Head
11-07-2013, 10:15 AM
http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/11/04/Twitter-Pic-1_20131104130403867_600_400.JPG

Dolphins G.M. Jeff Ireland told Martin’s agent, Rick Smith, that Martin should “punch” Incognito (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/06/sources-ireland-suggested-that-martin-confront-incognito-physically/)


So this whole thing was a psychological ploy engineered by the ever classy Jeff Ireland (http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/sage-rosenfels-blasts-dolphins-gm-jeff-ireland/)...?

Okay...maybe my head is in a messed up place but I can't see this pic without imagining this little blonde doing a "Chinese Finger Cuffs" thing with these two massive, collard green eatin' muff-huggas....and ewwww....

GlassHalfFull
11-07-2013, 10:27 AM
Growing up there would always be that ONE white guy or Latino who kicked it with a group of brothas and would essentially be seen as "one of us" BUT the guy in question wouldn't be dropping N-bombs. The individual in question would be seen as EITHER "cool as hell" or a "crazy muff-hugga". That might have changed since a billion years ago when I was growing up, but to me it just looks like Incognito is a jerk, but his team mates are sticking by him because that's what you do.The prevailing attitude is "The guy's an a-hole, but he's OUR a-hole."

In August of my son's Sr year playing HS football, two best friends were riding together in a car - one white (although he was a ginger) and one black. These guys were inseparable prior to the following incident. The white guy was driving and they were joking around, he used the n word. The black guy punched him and broke his jaw. Which reinforces the idea that it is NOT ok for a white guy to drop the n bomb. Ruined both of their Senior years. One guy couldn't play due to injury and the other had to transfer to another school as a condition of not being charged with assault.

Dread-Head
11-07-2013, 10:33 AM
In August of my son's Sr year playing HS football, two best friends were riding together in a car - one white (although he was a ginger) and one black. These guys were inseparable prior to the following incident. The white guy was driving and they were joking around, he used the n word. The black guy punched him and broke his jaw. Which reinforces the idea that it is NOT ok for a white guy to drop the n bomb. Ruined both of their Senior years. One guy couldn't play due to injury and the other had to transfer to another school as a condition of not being charged with assault.

Not having been there, I can't attest to what happened, but you give a guy ONE free pass on that. Either homeboy said it repeatedly, OR said it in a context which pissed his boy the vugg off. That sounds unpleasant.

GlassHalfFull
11-07-2013, 10:41 AM
Not having been there, I can't attest to what happened, but you give a guy ONE free pass on that. Either homeboy said it repeatedly, OR said it in a context which pissed his boy the vugg off. That sounds unpleasant.

From what I heard, it was a reflexive action. But the story does make me skeptical of Incognito's "honorary blackness" giving him a free pass to drop the n word.

Dread-Head
11-07-2013, 10:44 AM
From what I heard, it was a reflexive action. But the story does make me skeptical of Incognito's "honorary blackness" giving him a free pass to drop the n word.

I think the Dolphins are in damage control mode and are encouraging the players to come forward to speak on Incognito's behalf. I'm waiting for some of his FORMER team mates to come forward to do the same as I KNOW it's not going to happen. The GM (or coach I can't remember which) asked a potential draftee last year if his mother was a prostitute. I question the intellect and decision making abilities of the Dolphins. Smart people would cut their losses.

Texn4life
11-07-2013, 10:47 AM
Whole story pisses me off. I'm pissed off at everyone involved in it.

Double Barrel
11-07-2013, 10:48 AM
I played bass in a blues band for a black dude. He would always call me and the drummer (both white) his "n-bomb-with-an-'a'-s". First time he said it my eyes must have bulged out, because he laughed his ass off and said it just means good friend to him. I got used to it over time...sorta'....always kinda' weird...funny part was his white g/f getting mad at me when I said me and the drummer were crackers (a term I'd never heard before this blues band). So he could call us nbomba's, but god forbid if I laughed at the term cracker. Go figure.

We live in strange, confusing times.

If you think Incognito's career is ruined from this than I think you are completely wrong. If Incognito is cut someone will pick him up and I think there is a better chance of him still being on the team rather than Martin.

I tend to agree. Richie will go to some kind of sensitivity training and get picked up by the Raiders.

The NFL has shown a tendency to forgive guys for a lot of things if they still have game in them.

It's still a business at the end of the day, and marketing will spin Richie's story as reformed if he chooses that path.

Playoffs
11-07-2013, 12:18 PM
Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story

Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/)
From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome.

Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all apperances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito...
Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous. I have friends on more than a dozen teams, and it’s the same everywhere.

ChampionTexan
11-07-2013, 12:54 PM
Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story

Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/)

I'm not sure how much of an insider's story this can really be considered, when Murtha was gone from the Dolphins at the end of Martin's rookie training camp, and the introduction to the piece includes the phrase "and what he's heard" as a significant part of the description.

To me it begs the questions "When did he hear it", and "Who did he hear it from".

IDEXAN
11-07-2013, 12:56 PM
I played bass in a blues band for a black dude. He would always call me and the drummer (both white) his "n-bomb-with-an-'a'-s". First time he said it my eyes must have bulged out, because he laughed his ass off and said it just means good friend to him. I got used to it over time...sorta'....always kinda' weird...funny part was his white g/f getting mad at me when I said me and the drummer were crackers (a term I'd never heard before this blues band). So he could call us nbomba's, but god forbid if I laughed at the term cracker. Go figure.

We live in strange, confusing times.



I tend to agree. Richie will go to some kind of sensitivity training and get picked up by the Raiders.

The NFL has shown a tendency to forgive guys for a lot of things if they still have game in them.

It's still a business at the end of the day, and marketing will spin Richie's story as reformed if he chooses that path.
Who knew Double Barrel was somebodys "honorary" Bro ?
******
On Richies whereabouts nest year: remember that you tube piece where he's in the bar, bare-chested running around like a crazy man ? Well I listened closer, and I swear I heard him singing:
"O Canada! Our home and native land!"
Yea, I think Richie plays north of the border next year.

IlliniJen
11-07-2013, 01:21 PM
Declaring war on warrior culture: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9939308/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-miami-dolphins-bullying-scandal

There will always be locker-room *******s. They should be curtailed. And when a player says he needs time off for mental reasons — again: in a sport with a suicide problem — it shouldn't spark a national conversation on whether he's soft.

I am here to hurt you, so I'll also say this: You're a warrior, cool. What the hell are you a warrior for? I'm sorry if this makes it sound like I have emotions other than anger — I assure you that I don't — but tell me this: What's the point of being strong if all you stand for is abusing a suffering teammate? Those guys who taught me that when you see a problem, you step up and solve it, all those anonymous sources foaming on about how to be a man — is that what they think "being a man" is? I mean, nothing about protecting someone who's struggling in your big gender equation, then? Nothing about, like, knowing right from wrong?

Here's what I can't stop thinking: There were so many tough men in that Dolphins locker room. The unwritten code of football is that you handle your business in-house. Any one of these men could have said something to stop Incognito and help Martin. Any one of them could have handled it. They're warriors, right? They're paragons of strength. And yeah, there are complex reasons why they didn't. But they didn't.

Emphasis mine.

IlliniJen
11-07-2013, 01:23 PM
Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story

Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/)

IMHO: just another dude bro justifying a broken system/philosophy because he doesn't know better.

eriadoc
11-07-2013, 01:28 PM
Yea, I think Richie plays north of the border next year.

You think the Bills would take him, huh?

Double Barrel
11-07-2013, 01:31 PM
Who knew Double Barrel was somebodys "honorary" Bro ?

lol! I don't know about all that. Kevin referred to every dude he liked with it, regardless of race. Although he was impressed with how much funk I had in me for a white boy. :D

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2013, 01:45 PM
lol! I don't know about all that. Kevin referred to every dude he liked with it, regardless of race. Although he was impressed with how much funk I had in me for a white boy. :D

DB ... back in the day .

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/2003_malibu's_most_wanted_006.jpg

toronto
11-07-2013, 01:49 PM
Growing up there would always be that ONE white guy or Latino who kicked it with a group of brothas and would essentially be seen as "one of us" BUT the guy in question wouldn't be dropping N-bombs. The individual in question would be seen as EITHER "cool as hell" or a "crazy muff-hugga". That might have changed since a billion years ago when I was growing up, but to me it just looks like Incognito is a jerk, but his team mates are sticking by him because that's what you do.The prevailing attitude is "The guy's an a-hole, but he's OUR a-hole."

Reminds me of this classic scene from "The Wire"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82Jg-Omwmo4

TheIronDuke
11-07-2013, 01:53 PM
In high school I hung out with lots of black guys and was free to use the "n" word as long as it ended with an "a" with all of them. So it's not like this awful word to a lot of people.

IlliniJen
11-07-2013, 04:14 PM
In high school I hung out with lots of black guys and was free to use the "n" word as long as it ended with an "a" with all of them. So it's not like this awful word to a lot of people.

Unless you end it with an "-er," then it becomes a different word.

BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STUPID.

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2013, 04:42 PM
Unless you end it with an "-er," then it becomes a different word.

BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STUPID.

Jenna please !

chicagotexan2
11-07-2013, 09:51 PM
In high school I hung out with lots of black guys and was free to use the "n" word as long as it ended with an "a" with all of them. So it's not like this awful word to a lot of people.

This is why I am proposing the redskins change their name to the redskinnas. Problem solved.

cuppacoffee
11-08-2013, 08:59 AM
Several teammates and a few retired players who are now boring us on tv masquerading as football experts are trying to defend the bully. Circling the wagons around him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-11-06/miami-dolphins-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-nfl-goodell-discipline-punishment

Kinda reminds me of another group of people who defend bad apples.

:coffee:

IlliniJen
11-08-2013, 09:10 AM
Jenna please !

Let's get it right:

Jennifa

Actually, now it just sounds like a Bostonian is saying my name.

"Jennifa, that post was wicked retahded!"

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2013, 09:15 AM
Let's get it right:

Jennifa

Actually, now it just sounds like a Bostonian is saying my name.

"Jennifa, that post was wicked retahded!"

Some of this reminds me ( for whatever reason ) of Ali G interviewing Andy Rooney .

kingtexan
11-08-2013, 10:18 AM
Based on the latest statements by team-mates of how these two always hung out together, maybe this is more of a lovers quarrel than anyone being bullied. Seriously could see Incognito going Jeff Alm ...

Playoffs
11-08-2013, 10:29 AM
On Thursday night, lawyer David Cornwell issued a statement on behalf of Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin... (http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/07/jonathan-martins-miami-dolphins-lawyer-statement-verbal-physical-abuse/)
Jonathan Martin’s toughness is not at issue. Jonathan has started every game with the Miami Dolphins since he was drafted in 2012. At Stanford, he was the anchor for Jim Harbaugh’s “smash mouth” brand of football and he protected Andrew Luck’s blind side.

The issue is Jonathan’s treatment by his teammates. Jonathan endured harassment that went far beyond the traditional locker room hazing. For the entire season-and-a-half that he was with the Dolphins, he attempted to befriend the same teammates who subjected him to the abuse with the hope that doing so would end the harassment. This is a textbook reaction of victims of bullying. Despite these efforts, the taunting continued. Beyond the well-publicized voice mail with its racial epithet, Jonathan endured a malicious physical attack on him by a teammate, and daily vulgar comments such as the quote at the bottom. These facts are not in dispute.

Eventually, Jonathan made a difficult choice. Despite his love for football, Jonathan left the Dolphins. Jonathan looks forward to getting back to playing football. In the meantime, he will cooperate fully with the NFL investigation.

Quote from teammate: “We are going to run train on your sister. . . . She loves me. I am going to f–k her without a condom and c– in her c—.”
Yeah, that'll make him play better football. :spin:

And then there's this not unexpected tidbit...

Police Report: Richie Incognito accused of harassing woman at 2012 charity golf outing (http://tracking.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-harassment-golf-police-report-jonathan-martin/)

The then 34-year-old volunteer told police that Incognito had been drinking, and when he was at the hole where she was working, he rubbed her privates with a golf club and knocked a pair of sunglasses off her head with it, according to the report.

“After that, he proceeded to lean up against her buttocks with his private parts as if dancing, saying ‘Let it rain! Let it rain!’” the report states. “He finally finished his inappropriate behavior by emptying bottled water in her face.”

The alleged incident occurred on May 18, 2012, at the Turnberry Resort & Club, during the annual “Fins Weekend Golf Tournament” for charity. The volunteer told Local 10, the ABC affiliate, that she can’t talk about the incident because she signed a confidentiality agreement. The Dolphins did not provide comment.Had Incogsh!thole done this to my daughter, his piehole would have been introduced to business end of my sand wedge. I have no tolerance for bullies... and I have zero respect for men who stand around and watch a tough guy bully a girl. Spineless. :bat:

2012Champs
11-08-2013, 10:32 AM
On Thursday night, lawyer David Cornwell issued a statement on behalf of Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin... (http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/07/jonathan-martins-miami-dolphins-lawyer-statement-verbal-physical-abuse/)

Yeah, that'll make him play better football. :spin:

And then there's this not unexpected tidbit...

Police Report: Richie Incognito accused of harassing woman at 2012 charity golf outing (http://tracking.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-harassment-golf-police-report-jonathan-martin/)

Had Incogsh!thole done this to my daughter, his piehole would have been introduced to business end of my sand wedge. I have no tolerance for bullies... and I have zero respect for men who stand around and watch a tough guy bully a girl. Spineless. :bat:


Of note a phins official apologized to the young lady for incognito's actions and this was prior to Incognito's appointment to the leadership team

Dread-Head
11-08-2013, 10:41 AM
Let's get it right:

Jennifa

Actually, now it just sounds like a Bostonian is saying my name.

"Jennifa, that post was wicked retahded!"



You know what's the SEXIEST thing about you though? That OVERWHELMING sense of modesty!