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View Full Version : You Can't Really Fix Football Without Turning It Into Another Sport


CloakNNNdagger
10-31-2013, 09:00 AM
Something that many may not know........with all the myriad of rule changes by the League to "protect" its players, the number of NFL player injuries in general have NOT decreased one in 2013 as compared to 2012.

Interesting article by DeadSpin (http://deadspin.com/why-the-nfls-new-concussion-protocols-arent-working-1437228632), which questions the effectiveness of the NFL Concussion Policy. Bottom line to be taken away.................These are problems that can't be solved via fiat and bureaucracy, and there's a simple inference to be drawn from that fact: you can't really fix football without turning it into another sport.

Exascor
10-31-2013, 09:50 AM
Something that many may not know........with all the myriad of rule changes by the League to "protect" its players, the number of NFL player injuries in general have NOT decreased one in 2013 as compared to 2012.

Interesting article by DeadSpin (http://deadspin.com/why-the-nfls-new-concussion-protocols-arent-working-1437228632), which questions the effectiveness of the NFL Concussion Policy. Bottom line to be taken away.................This is one of the things that scares me. Hard-nosed defensive football is disappearing from the game. The ticky tack pass interference calls, the roughing the QB penalties for "hitting" the head (sometimes it's obviously accidental and not hard enough for the QB to even feel it), going "low" on the QB when momentum means it's the only way to get to the QB, hit the QB square in the chest but your helmet slides up and taps the helmet, or any of the other crap that comes up during games. I'm for player safety. I don't want to see anyone get hurt (even you Mr Schaub!) but in a sport like football it will happen.

My concern is in the intent on these hits. If you try to injure a player then you deserve punishment. If you try to tackle, block a pass or know the ball loose then it shouldn't be an issue. If I'm clearly going towards the QB at full speed and launch because it looks like he's about to throw the ball and smack him hard and it just so happens to hit him in the head, too bad. That's part of the game. If I'm 2 feet from the QB and launch into his helmet or the QB is on his way down and throw an elbow into his head or a RB is already tackled and I spear him in the back then toss the flag. Heck, toss me from the game.

The NFL is getting closer to flag football. While playing flag football is fun, watching it isn't something I want to do.

Hervoyel
10-31-2013, 10:26 AM
But if the hits themselves cause debilitating conditions in players regardless of the intent of the hits then they have to stop which means football (in its purest form) has to stop.

I will miss it but I can't say that my entertainment is more important than these men's health and well being. Who knows, maybe we're going to have to wait on robots to see real hard-hitting football again once all this is banned.

That will be when the Robot-Rights groups start up......

Playoffs
10-31-2013, 10:34 AM
Report: Concussion rates nearly twice as high for high school vs. college football players (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/10/30/4586383/study-concussion-rates-nearly.html)
The latest of those reports was released Wednesday by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council. It shows high school football players are sustaining concussions at a rate of 11.2 per 10,000 “athlete exposures,” nearly twice the rate as college players, and says young athletes could face a “culture of resistance” to reporting head injuries...


and the report: http://iom.edu/Reports/2013/Sports-Related-Concussions-in-Youth-Improving-the-Science-Changing-the-Culture.aspx?

Thorn
10-31-2013, 11:14 AM
But if the hits themselves cause debilitating conditions in players regardless of the intent of the hits then they have to stop which means football (in its purest form) has to stop.

I will miss it but I can't say that my entertainment is more important than these men's health and well being. Who knows, maybe we're going to have to wait on robots to see real hard-hitting football again once all this is banned.

That will be when the Robot-Rights groups start up......

MSR

damn good post Herv. Not necessarily one in which I want to agree, but one in which I must agree.

Double Barrel
10-31-2013, 11:49 AM
There was an article in a recent Sports Illustrated about concussions. This issue goes back a century. Legislators were trying to ban football by law because players were dying from head injuries. It gave some specific examples for historical perspective.

Really, nothing new under the sun except for the research that is now being done to study the long-term effects and actually understand what is going on with the brain and CTE.

I'll try to find a link to the SI article soon. It was an interesting read. (For anyone that read it, the writer mentioned Alan Page, the Minnesota Vikings player who is now a judge.)

eriadoc
10-31-2013, 11:53 AM
But if the hits themselves cause debilitating conditions in players regardless of the intent of the hits then they have to stop which means football (in its purest form) has to stop.

I will miss it but I can't say that my entertainment is more important than these men's health and well being. Who knows, maybe we're going to have to wait on robots to see real hard-hitting football again once all this is banned.

That will be when the Robot-Rights groups start up......

That may be. My bigger concern in the short term is that these rule changes by the NFL will actually cause more injuries by changing the way these players tackle and brace for tackle. Jermichael Finley stated flat out he lowered his head to protect his knees from the tackler and ended up temporarily paralyzed.

Also, I think the CTE thing has been overcompensated for, to some degree. The severity of CTE can't be overplayed, but the players of the past that have/had CTE got concussions and went right back out there. They played with concussions. Make the one obvious correction in taking players out of the game if they suffer a concussion and then punish players for deliberately headhunting. See where that takes things. Instead, they're going way overboard, IMO.

CloakNNNdagger
10-31-2013, 12:25 PM
Report: Concussion rates nearly twice as high for high school vs. college football players (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/10/30/4586383/study-concussion-rates-nearly.html)


and the report: http://iom.edu/Reports/2013/Sports-Related-Concussions-in-Youth-Improving-the-Science-Changing-the-Culture.aspx?

As I've tried to point out in previous thread, less mature younger brains are more susceptible to concussive events and more significant consequences.

steelbtexan
10-31-2013, 02:34 PM
But if the hits themselves cause debilitating conditions in players regardless of the intent of the hits then they have to stop which means football (in its purest form) has to stop.

I will miss it but I can't say that my entertainment is more important than these men's health and well being. Who knows, maybe we're going to have to wait on robots to see real hard-hitting football again once all this is banned.

That will be when the Robot-Rights groups start up......

I can say my entertainment is more important than these mens health. These men are well compensated for what they do and they know the risks envolved.

You know who has it worse but accepts the risks for a penance of the pay and aceppt these risks on a daily basis? Coal miners.

Hell, the people who build stadiums accept more risk than the players that play in them. Not to mention the military/contractors overseas.

God'ell is just a bleeding heart liberal who is the owners yes man. I'm sure he came up with the plan that would help force the concussion lawsuit settlement, it worked. But in the meantime he destroyed what football is suppoed to be. I miss the days where men like Pearson/Swann/Stallworth would go across the middle knowing they were going to get the crap knocked out of themselves. Why did they do it, It was there job.

Have you noticed since God'ell came up with the defenseless receiver rule the era of the diva WR was born? Coincedece? I think not.

silvrhand
10-31-2013, 06:16 PM
First thing to fix is get rid of the artificial turf.

The NFL should not allow artificial turf anymore, it should move back to grass for several reasons.

- slow players down
- remind us that elements should have a place in the game (wet/snow games)
- hopefully slow down the # of injuries.
- provide a soft turf to reduce the # of concussions from heads hitting ground.

Thoughts?

Vance87
10-31-2013, 07:09 PM
First thing to fix is get rid of the artificial turf.

The NFL should not allow artificial turf anymore, it should move back to grass for several reasons.

- slow players down
- remind us that elements should have a place in the game (wet/snow games)
- hopefully slow down the # of injuries.
- provide a soft turf to reduce the # of concussions from heads hitting ground.

Thoughts?

Agreed, but you have to think about how the grass in a domed stadium would be affected. Apparently our field is just a bunch of sections of turf molded together and players have complained about how torn up the field gets and how it can cause injuries. To my knowledge we try and facilitate real grass as best we can but it's hard when it doesn't have access to sunlight.

Ranger Tom
10-31-2013, 08:05 PM
If we have to have another sport...I'd be disappointed, for the most part. I love the build-up of suspense between plays, especially as the game comes closer to the end and the offense comes closer to the goal line. I have some great memories about watching the fortunes of a game turn on only a few seconds of action.

But if I'm honest, the thought has crossed my mind more than once that football may go away entirely within my lifetime (I'm 27), and it's because of the injury rate.

silvrhand
10-31-2013, 08:56 PM
Agreed, but you have to think about how the grass in a domed stadium would be affected. Apparently our field is just a bunch of sections of turf molded together and players have complained about how torn up the field gets and how it can cause injuries. To my knowledge we try and facilitate real grass as best we can but it's hard when it doesn't have access to sunlight.

I'm guessing that there is a better way to roll our turf in than the current sections we do.

2slik4u
10-31-2013, 09:23 PM
But if the hits themselves cause debilitating conditions in players regardless of the intent of the hits then they have to stop which means football (in its purest form) has to stop.

I will miss it but I can't say that my entertainment is more important than these men's health and well being. Who knows, maybe we're going to have to wait on robots to see real hard-hitting football again once all this is banned.

That will be when the Robot-Rights groups start up......

If these guys are willing to sign multi million dollar contracts and live in the lap of luxury in return for the risk to play football...then I will happily watch for my entertainment. Let's not kids ourselves into thinking that they aren't being compensated more than any players before them ever have and they certainly aren't being forced to play.

I feel bad when life dibilitating injuries happen on the field and never wish to see that but they are well aware of the risks associated with playing football...which is why they sign those fat ass contracts.

steelbtexan
10-31-2013, 09:38 PM
If God'ell changes the game too much, another league will be formed and it will be very successful. Between the NFL constantly raising prices and changing the rules for the worse will eventually open the door for a new league to compete against the NFL.

2slik4u
10-31-2013, 09:47 PM
If God'ell changes the game too much, another league will be formed and it will be very successful. Between the NFL constantly raising prices and changing the rules for the worse will eventually open the door for a new league to compete against the NFL.

Nah. The nfl is too big and way too rich for any other league to ever compete.

Txn_in_Oki
11-01-2013, 11:11 PM
If these guys are willing to sign multi million dollar contracts and live in the lap of luxury in return for the risk to play football...then I will happily watch for my entertainment. Let's not kids ourselves into thinking that they aren't being compensated more than any players before them ever have and they certainly aren't being forced to play.

I feel bad when life dibilitating injuries happen on the field and never wish to see that but they are well aware of the risks associated with playing football...which is why they sign those fat ass contracts.

These individuals make the decision to make millions of dollars to put their body on the line. Don't spend your life hurling yourself at another human being as hard as you can for your profession and then act like you're ignorant of the repercussions.

Speedy
11-02-2013, 12:14 PM
These individuals make the decision to make millions of dollars to put their body on the line. Don't spend your life hurling yourself at another human being as hard as you can for your profession and then act like you're ignorant of the repercussions.

I think part of the bolded is because of the equipment/protection. I think they're going the wrong way with making the equipment harder and stronger in an effort to protect more. These players, stronger and faster than ever, put all of this equipment on and feel invincible. They're more willing to throw their bodies into someone as hard as they can.

Now, let me preface this by saying I don't know anything about rugby. Don't follow it, have only seen 2 games in my life, but they play tackle football and they don't wear all of the equipment. So since I don't follow it, I don't have a clue as to their injury situations, but it seems to me that I'd be less willing to throw my body into someone if I didn't have all of the protective padding and equipment.

I don't know. Maybe someone who follows rugby can debunk that theory, but maybe the NFL just needs to go back to the leather helmets or something.

Ranger Tom
11-02-2013, 12:51 PM
It took a while, but I was able to find a comparison between football and rugby in injury rates. Football has 35.9 injuries per 1,000 "athletic exposures (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2007-05-22-3559427577_x.htm)" (every time an athlete participates). Rugby has 5.2 (http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=378888); that second link has a breakdown of where the injuries occur. Keep in mind that both of those articles are studying U.S. high school players.

Among higher levels, rugby sees 1.4 "serious" injuries per match (http://www.menshealth.co.uk/fitness/sports-training/rugby-vs-football-112003) (that article is comparing rugby with association football, better known to us as soccer). I don't know what the same statistic is for football.

eriadoc
11-02-2013, 01:02 PM
I've watched a little rugby. I wish it were shown more regularly here, since I think it could be my #2 favorite sport. There are definitely things the NFL could learn from rugby, and losing the helmet would be one.

CloakNNNdagger
11-02-2013, 07:17 PM
It took a while, but I was able to find a comparison between football and rugby in injury rates. Football has 35.9 injuries per 1,000 "athletic exposures (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2007-05-22-3559427577_x.htm)" (every time an athlete participates). Rugby has 5.2 (http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=378888); that second link has a breakdown of where the injuries occur. Keep in mind that both of those articles are studying U.S. high school players.

Among higher levels, rugby sees 1.4 "serious" injuries per match (http://www.menshealth.co.uk/fitness/sports-training/rugby-vs-football-112003) (that article is comparing rugby with association football, better known to us as soccer). I don't know what the same statistic is for football.

This is one of the best analyses of of NFL injuries (up to 2009) that I've come across.

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/data/Dangers-of-the-Game-Draft-Esquire.pdf

Dutchrudder
11-02-2013, 10:34 PM
The answer is to get rid of the hard plastic helmets. Those things are like armor and are used as weapons on the field to hit other guys. If you take away that, and give him hard foam or leather helmets, the head issue will fix itself. Guys will stop launching headfirst into other players, defenders will tackle with their eyes up, and players will stop spearing all together. It's pretty obvious to me that these concussions almost always involve at least one helmet hitting a player, they are clearly the important part of the equation.

mattieuk
11-03-2013, 08:25 PM
I've watched a little rugby. I wish it were shown more regularly here, since I think it could be my #2 favorite sport. There are definitely things the NFL could learn from rugby, and losing the helmet would be one.

I am with you here. Football has transitioned into a hitting game from being a tackling game since the introduction on the plastic helmets. Protection for the players is important, however if it causing wreckless behaviour, then it needs to be looked at.

It starts from the top as well. As long as NFL Network et al. is showing compilations of 'hardest hits' there won't be any momentum for change.