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Texian
10-22-2013, 11:25 AM
Currently Texans projected to pick in the #7-#12 Vicinity.

At the end of the 2013 season Bob McNair fires Kubiak and Smith.

Hires Eric Decosta as GM who hires HC.

Mid Season Mock

Rd 1. C. J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama, 6021, 232 (up grades OLB, Reed moves to ILB)
Rd 2. Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford, 6055, 261 (replaces Ninja)
Rd 3. A. J. McCarron, QB, Alabama, 6032, 214 (replaces Schaub)
Rd 4. JaWuan James, OT, Tennessee, 6056, 318 (replaces Newton)
Rd 5. Marcus Williams CB, N. Dakota St., 5110, 197 (upgrades secondary)
Rd 6. Storm Johnson, RB, Cent. Florida, 6001, 218 (replaces Tate)
Rd 7. Trey Hopkins, OG, Texas, 6034, 302 (replaces Smith)

Conventional Wisdom is a rookie QB needs 20 starts in the NFL before you truly know what you have. 2014 gives Texans and Keenum his 20 starts. Schaub is released for cap reasons. McCarron is brought in as a backup and also a chance to be a starter. If all fails Texans go all in for a Franchise QB in 2015. At this time I do expect most underclassman QB to return to school. I expect only 1 or 2 to come out. If that happens 2015 will be a better year for QBs than 2014.

Texans have lost there pass rush, this is improved with Mosley and Murphy. Replaces Ninja who becomes a FA and cap casualty and upgrades OLB.

Texian
10-27-2013, 09:10 AM
I have to revise my mid season mock. Last night Trent Murphy had a JJ Watt kind of game. Not only will Murphy be a 1st rd pick he could also now become a top 10 pick. For the time being I will switch Murphy and Mosley.

Rd 1. Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford, 6055, 261 (replaces Ninja)
Rd 2. C. J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama, 6021, 232 (up grades OLB, Reed moves to ILB)
Rd 3. A. J. McCarron, QB, Alabama, 6032, 214 (replaces Schaub)
Rd 4. JaWuan James, OT, Tennessee, 6056, 318 (replaces Newton)
Rd 5. Marcus Williams CB, N. Dakota St., 5110, 197 (upgrades secondary)
Rd 6. Storm Johnson, RB, Cent. Florida, 6001, 218 (replaces Tate)
Rd 7. Trey Hopkins, OG, Texas, 6034, 302 (replaces Smith)

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2013, 10:20 AM
Murphy better put on at least 25 lbs to play a 5 . As far as Mosley and McCarron go , Bama high picks aren't panning out so well . Unless of course they go to 4-3 , then Murphy may play opposite of JJ .

http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/090313aab.html

Texian
10-27-2013, 10:50 AM
Murphy better put on at least 25 lbs to play a 5 . As far as Mosley and McCarron go , Bama high picks aren't panning out so well . Unless of course they go to 4-3 , then Murphy may play opposite of JJ .

http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/090313aab.html

Murphy is about the same size as JJ Watt and bigger than Ninja.

beerlover
10-27-2013, 10:59 AM
Murphy is about the same size as JJ Watt and bigger than Ninja.

he's not close to JJ 6-6- 292 & still smaller than Ninja when he came out 6-4 274.

Texian
10-27-2013, 12:48 PM
he's not close to JJ 6-6- 292 & still smaller than Ninja when he came out 6-4 274.

Trent Murphy is 6055 and weighs 290 lbs. The 261 lbs that you often see listed in his bio is what Murph weighed when he arrived at Stanford. Last night announcers saying he was 290. Trent played in a 4 man front with his hand in the dirt the whole game. Come Feb I would bet that Trent Murphy will closer to 209 than 260. Physically he's a JJ Watt clone.

beerlover
10-27-2013, 02:45 PM
Trent Murphy is 6055 and weighs 290 lbs. The 261 lbs that you often see listed in his bio is what Murph weighed when he arrived at Stanford. Last night announcers saying he was 290. Trent played in a 4 man front with his hand in the dirt the whole game. Come Feb I would bet that Trent Murphy will closer to 209 than 260. Physically he's a JJ Watt clone.

I trust ourlads scouting service who report Trent is 6050 261 as of this September. If in fact he has added 30lbs since then without losing a step, yeah that would qualify as Watt-Esq.

steelbtexan
10-27-2013, 03:04 PM
Currently Texans projected to pick in the #7-#12 Vicinity.

At the end of the 2013 season Bob McNair fires Kubiak and Smith.

Hires Eric Decosta as GM who hires HC.

Mid Season Mock

Rd 1. C. J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama, 6021, 232 (up grades OLB, Reed moves to ILB)
Rd 2. Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford, 6055, 261 (replaces Ninja)
Rd 3. A. J. McCarron, QB, Alabama, 6032, 214 (replaces Schaub)
Rd 4. JaWuan James, OT, Tennessee, 6056, 318 (replaces Newton)
Rd 5. Marcus Williams CB, N. Dakota St., 5110, 197 (upgrades secondary)
Rd 6. Storm Johnson, RB, Cent. Florida, 6001, 218 (replaces Tate)
Rd 7. Trey Hopkins, OG, Texas, 6034, 302 (replaces Smith)

Conventional Wisdom is a rookie QB needs 20 starts in the NFL before you truly know what you have. 2014 gives Texans and Keenum his 20 starts. Schaub is released for cap reasons. McCarron is brought in as a backup and also a chance to be a starter. If all fails Texans go all in for a Franchise QB in 2015. At this time I do expect most underclassman QB to return to school. I expect only 1 or 2 to come out. If that happens 2015 will be a better year for QBs than 2014.

Texans have lost there pass rush, this is improved with Mosley and Murphy. Replaces Ninja who becomes a FA and cap casualty and upgrades OLB.

Give me Rd.1 Nix Rd.2 Skov, this improves the middle of the Texans defense and Nix will require double teams. That will help take pressure off of Watt.

BTW, the Texans have the 3rd worst defense in the NFL at stopping the run between the tackles.

Nix can become this yrs Loutelliuli. (SP?)

Love the rest of the mock and would trade up to pick James. Not familiar with Williams.

thunderkyss
10-27-2013, 09:37 PM
I trust ourlads scouting service who report Trent is 6050 261 as of this September. If in fact he has added 30lbs since then without losing a step, yeah that would qualify as Watt-Esq.

Even at 261, I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing him.

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKf8QsA6-E&noredirect=1

He looks like an OLB. If we were to go with Texian's draft & select an OLB with our first two picks... I wouldn't have an issue with that.

McCarren in the third..... I like it.

But with Earl Mitchell & Antonio as free agents, I'd like to spend a few picks on some big bodies. We need some help on the OL, not saying we don't. But we've got Brennan who should have took the whole year off anyway, & Quiz & I'd look for some young FAs out there that can get us by for another year.

Fred
10-27-2013, 09:54 PM
Currently Texans projected to pick in the #7-#12 Vicinity.

Mid Season Mock

Rd 1. C. J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama, 6021, 232 (up grades OLB, Reed moves to ILB)
Rd 2. Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford, 6055, 261 (replaces Ninja)



I have to revise my mid season mock. Last night Trent Murphy had a JJ Watt kind of game. Not only will Murphy be a 1st rd pick he could also now become a top 10 pick. For the time being I will switch Murphy and Mosley.

Rd 1. Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford, 6055, 261 (replaces Ninja)
Rd 2. C. J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama, 6021, 232 (up grades OLB, Reed moves to ILB)


This is why all these one team mocks are useless. You need to revise because your original 2nd rounder will now need to be nabbed in the early 1st round. That is fine.

But then, to replace him in the 2nd round a player you "expect" to be available is ... the same guy you used a top 12 pick on less than a week before! Either Mosley won't be available in the 2nd round, or the idea of picking him in the first round was a colossal reach!

Show all 32 teams and why you think Mosley is the best value available at ~ pick 10 yet will still be available at ~ pick 42. If you can't show who you think goes in between picks 10 and 42 then you are just throwing out a magical wish list of 7 players, heck, even I can do that.

TexansSeminole
10-27-2013, 10:00 PM
This is why all these one team mocks are useless. You need to revise because your original 2nd rounder will now need to be nabbed in the early 1st round. That is fine.

But then, to replace him in the 2nd round a player you "expect" to be available is ... the same guy you used a top 12 pick on less than a week before! Either Mosley won't be available in the 2nd round, or the idea of picking him in the first round was a colossal reach!

Show all 32 teams and why you think Mosley is the best value available at ~ pick 10 yet will still be available at ~ pick 42. If you can't show who you think goes in between picks 10 and 42 then you are just throwing out a magical wish list of 7 players, heck, even I can do that.

We see that it bothers you.

Texian
10-27-2013, 10:12 PM
We see that it bothers you.

I kind of agree with Fred it was a lackadaisical and poor effort on my part. Watching the Standford game I kind of got carried away. I'll do better next time, promise.

TexansSeminole
10-27-2013, 11:08 PM
I kind of agree with Fred it was a lackadaisical and poor effort on my part. Watching the Standford game I kind of got carried away. I'll do better next time, promise.

Meh, it's all projection at this point. Things change rapidly as well. Nothing is a poor effort, to be honest. Players drop and skyrocket even on draft day.

thunderkyss
10-27-2013, 11:27 PM
Meh, it's all projection at this point. Things change rapidly as well. Nothing is a poor effort, to be honest. Players drop and skyrocket even on draft day.

Agreed. I'm too lazy to do my own, so...

Texn4life
10-28-2013, 12:08 AM
I actually like your original mock........ My only question mark is whether Mosley is a fit in a 3-4 defense.

badboy
10-28-2013, 10:51 AM
This is why all these one team mocks are useless. You need to revise because your original 2nd rounder will now need to be nabbed in the early 1st round. That is fine.

But then, to replace him in the 2nd round a player you "expect" to be available is ... the same guy you used a top 12 pick on less than a week before! Either Mosley won't be available in the 2nd round, or the idea of picking him in the first round was a colossal reach!

Show all 32 teams and why you think Mosley is the best value available at ~ pick 10 yet will still be available at ~ pick 42. If you can't show who you think goes in between picks 10 and 42 then you are just throwing out a magical wish list of 7 players, heck, even I can do that.Some good points on Mosely dropping to second round which imo was OP wanting to keep him so I can let it slide. BTW, where is you mock effort?

Texian
11-01-2013, 11:53 AM
I kind of agree with Fred it was a lackadaisical and poor effort on my part. Watching the Standford game I kind of got carried away. I'll do better next time, promise.

After such a poor effort that was done without much thought and mailed in, here is my revised mock that was done with much more effort and thought:

Assuming the Texans pick in the Top 10:

Rd 1. Johnny Manziel, QB, 6001, 211, Texas A&M
Rd 2. Austin Sefarin-Jenkins, TE, 6055, 276, Washington
Rd 3. Jeremy Attaochu, OLB, 6026, 242, Georgia Tech
Rd 4. Marcus Williams, CB, 5110, 197, N Dakota State
Rd 5. Bruce Gaston, NT, 6021, 310, Purdue
Rd 6. Storm Johnson, RB, 6001, 215, Central Florida
Rd 7. Trey Hopkins, OG, 6034, 300, Texas

Honoring Earl 34
11-01-2013, 12:04 PM
After such a poor effort that was done without much thought and mailed in, here is my revised mock that was done with much more effort and thought:

Assuming the Texans pick in the Top 10:

Rd 1. Johnny Manziel, QB, 6001, 211, Texas A&M
Rd 2. Austin Sefarin-Jenkins, TE, 6055, 276, Washington
Rd 3. Jeremy Attaochu, OLB, 6026, 242, Georgia Tech
Rd 4. Marcus Williams, CB, 5110, 197, N Dakota State
Rd 5. Bruce Gaston, NT, 6021, 310, Purdue
Rd 6. Storm Johnson, RB, 6001, 215, Central Florida
Rd 7. Trey Hopkins, OG, 6034, 300, Texas

There's never poor efforts . What is true is there's about 10 folks going to Baskin & Robbins and ordering the ice cream of their choice . Dang ... ice cream sounds good .

NCTexan
11-01-2013, 12:47 PM
Rd 2. Austin Sefarin-Jenkins, TE, 6055, 276, Washington


If Erik Ebron, UNC is there at this pick, do you take him instead?

Just out of curiosity. I think Ebron is gone by this point though.

badboy
11-01-2013, 01:17 PM
After such a poor effort that was done without much thought and mailed in, here is my revised mock that was done with much more effort and thought:

Assuming the Texans pick in the Top 10:

Rd 1. Johnny Manziel, QB, 6001, 211, Texas A&M
Rd 2. Austin Sefarin-Jenkins, TE, 6055, 276, Washington
Rd 3. Jeremy Attaochu, OLB, 6026, 242, Georgia Tech
Rd 4. Marcus Williams, CB, 5110, 197, N Dakota State
Rd 5. Bruce Gaston, NT, 6021, 310, Purdue
Rd 6. Storm Johnson, RB, 6001, 215, Central Florida
Rd 7. Trey Hopkins, OG, 6034, 300, TexasInterested in why no OT. Do you think Newton gets better, Williams returns or are you moving Q to RT? If the latter, I don't see Hopkins starting. Please expound.

Also, manziel has been beaten up bad this season, do you think he will survive NFL or do you see him playing different style than 1-2-3 run?

Texian
11-01-2013, 03:42 PM
If Erik Ebron, UNC is there at this pick, do you take him instead?

Just out of curiosity. I think Ebron is gone by this point though.

Don't know, I do think one would have to give strong consideration to Ebron, Amaro and Sefarin-Jenkins and also consider how well they test at Combine as part of that process. I do think all 3 today are worthy of an early 2nd rd consideration.

Interested in why no OT. Do you think Newton gets better, Williams returns or are you moving Q to RT? If the latter, I don't see Hopkins starting. Please expound.

Also, manziel has been beaten up bad this season, do you think he will survive NFL or do you see him playing different style than 1-2-3 run?

Yes to Q and Williams. I agree OT is the biggest hole in my draft however 2 draft picks were used at the position last year. I hate redundant drafting. My thinking is Williams and/or Q will be an upgrade to Newton, hopefully. If Marcus Williams doesn't test well at combine then an OT replacement would make sense there.

On to Manziel, IMHO Johnny Football has looked like he has improved on his 1-2-3 run. Manziel is being privately coached by George Whitfield Jr. http://whitfieldqb.com/ and it appears to me that it's been having some very positive results. Now when Johnny does run he does make something happen (1st down). 1-2-3 Run seems more like 1-2-3-4 Run unless there is real pressure and he's much better at avoiding pressure.

There is not a more exciting football player on the field to day than Johnny Football. I can only imagine how exciting it would be going to Reliant every Sunday to watch Johnny Football play. Must be something like the Redskins fan and Colts fans are experiencing going to see RGIII and Luck.

In regards to injuries, all QBs have been injured, the Great Peyton now has sprained ankles is getting shots before the game. Manning & Brady both have missed seasons because of injuries. Yes Jonny Manziel will likely get injured but chances are very good so will any other QB you draft. Another thing I love about Johnny Football is late in the game and the team needs to score, you got to love your chances with Johnny Manziel. You can't say that about many college QBs today.

Johnny Manziel = #3 Completion %/.730; #4 Passing Efficiency/181.9; #5 Passing Yards/2594; #7 Passing TDs/22; #3 Total Offense/386.4 yds per game, all while often being taken out early because of big leads.

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/11

htownfan32
11-01-2013, 04:24 PM
If Erik Ebron, UNC is there at this pick, do you take him instead?

Just out of curiosity. I think Ebron is gone by this point though.

I think you and I discussed Ebron a bit earlier, and I think bolded is what happens but if he's there I would take Ebron all day.

Texian
11-01-2013, 07:36 PM
If Erik Ebron, UNC is there at this pick, do you take him instead?

Just out of curiosity. I think Ebron is gone by this point though.

I think you and I discussed Ebron a bit earlier, and I think bolded is what happens but if he's there I would take Ebron all day.

Further to earlier discussion about Ebron vs Sefarin-Jenkins. It would not hurt my feeling to much at this point if Ebron and Amaro were the first two TEs off the board and Sefarin-Jenkins was available when the Texans pick in the 2nd rd. In my mind I think S-J could be the best TE in the 2014 draft.

In August of this year Sefarin-Jenkins was the #1 TE going into the 2013 season after his 69 catch, 852 yd, 7 TD, 2012 season. This year he only has 20 catches. Amaro with 64 catches/851 yards and Ebron with 35 catches/625 yards are blowing his doors off. So why is that?

HC Sarkisian after signing 3 top wr and due to the fact that so many Pac12 teams run an uptempo no huddle offense he made a similar change to his offense. This offense is more friendly to RBs and WRs and less friendly TEs. The Pro Style offense previously run was more conducive to Sefarin-Jenkins game. As a result S-J receptions have dropped to an all-time career low of 20 catches. Compound this with an off season DUI and 1 game suspension and Sefarin-Jenkins has fallen of many radars. However he is still the same TE he was when setting WASH Huskies records as a true freshman and sophomore.

mussop
11-01-2013, 11:11 PM
Interested in why no OT. Do you think Newton gets better, Williams returns or are you moving Q to RT? If the latter, I don't see Hopkins starting. Please expound.

Also, manziel has been beaten up bad this season, do you think he will survive NFL or do you see him playing different style than 1-2-3 run?

I'm worried about the interior defense. Ninja and Mitchell could be gone. Cushing might never be the same or be able to stay healthy. There is zero quality depth at all the positions I just named. Even if all of them return I would draft heavy and early there.

I'm not near as concerned about the OL but I'm still looking hard there also. This team needs talent and depth in the trenches.

Texian
11-02-2013, 12:29 PM
After such a poor effort that was done without much thought and mailed in, here is my revised mock that was done with much more effort and thought:

Assuming the Texans pick in the Top 10:

Rd 1. Johnny Manziel, QB, 6001, 211, Texas A&M
Rd 2. Austin Sefarin-Jenkins, TE, 6055, 276, Washington
Rd 3. Jeremy Attaochu, OLB, 6026, 242, Georgia Tech
Rd 4. Marcus Williams, CB, 5110, 197, N Dakota State
Rd 5. Bruce Gaston, NT, 6021, 310, Purdue
Rd 6. Storm Johnson, RB, 6001, 215, Central Florida
Rd 7. Trey Hopkins, OG, 6034, 300, Texas

Revised: 5. Bruce Gaston OUT, Chris Whaley IN

Chris Whaley, DT, 6026, 295, Texas

badboy
11-02-2013, 09:13 PM
I'm worried about the interior defense. Ninja and Mitchell could be gone. Cushing might never be the same or be able to stay healthy. There is zero quality depth at all the positions I just named. Even if all of them return I would draft heavy and early there.

I'm not near as concerned about the OL but I'm still looking hard there also. This team needs talent and depth in the trenches.As well you should be and why on my posted mock I have Nix in first and Smallwood in 2nd. I also share your concern about Cush but he should recover well from leg but to what level? I would not be shocked if Houston drafted two players for ILB but more likely UDFAs to round out that area. I too am slightly optimistic about the Oline but need some improvement against Colts. JaWuan James looked good today against Missouri in a loss.

badboy
11-02-2013, 09:33 PM
Revised: 5. Bruce Gaston OUT, Chris Whaley IN

Chris Whaley, DT, 6026, 295, Texas
Whaley? Why? You are not over reacting to the INT for score are you? He is definitely not a nose. You were better with Gaston.

Texian
11-02-2013, 10:47 PM
Whaley? Why? You are not over reacting to the INT for score are you? He is definitely not a nose. You were better with Gaston.

I watched Gaston today vs OSU, pitiful, very disappointing. Whaley is as much a Nose as Mitchell. Whaley is much more athletic than Gaston. I also like Caruan Reid from Princeton. You're aware Whaley got another TD today (fumble return)?

badboy
11-02-2013, 11:17 PM
I watched Gaston today vs OSU, pitiful, very disappointing. Whaley is as much a Nose as Mitchell. Whaley is much more athletic than Gaston. I also like Caruan Reid from Princeton. You're aware Whaley got another TD today (fumble return)?
Have not been following Gaston and agree that neither Mitchell or WHaley should be NT.

Texian
11-03-2013, 09:53 AM
Have not been following Gaston and agree that neither Mitchell or WHaley should be NT.

I do not subscribe to bigger is better, it's myth

Texian
11-04-2013, 11:33 AM
kbohls ‏@kbohls 26m

Texas coach Mack Brown said DT Chris Whaley's stock is going up fast as an NFL prospect. #statesman

WolverineFan
11-04-2013, 12:05 PM
Have not been following Gaston and agree that neither Mitchell or WHaley should be NT.

I agree. Mitchell is a 3' technique. Wade wants smaller, quicker NT's that can penetrate. Not two-gap wide bodies. If it works, then that's fine. I don't care.

We really should have grabbed Kawaan Short last year. He would have been a perfect NT for what it seems like Wade wants.

Honoring Earl 34
11-05-2013, 09:10 PM
Currently Texans projected to pick in the #7-#12 Vicinity.

At the end of the 2013 season Bob McNair fires Kubiak and Smith.

Hires Eric Decosta as GM who hires HC.

Mid Season Mock

Rd 1. C. J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama, 6021, 232 (up grades OLB, Reed moves to ILB)
Rd 2. Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford, 6055, 261 (replaces Ninja)
Rd 3. A. J. McCarron, QB, Alabama, 6032, 214 (replaces Schaub)
Rd 4. JaWuan James, OT, Tennessee, 6056, 318 (replaces Newton)
Rd 5. Marcus Williams CB, N. Dakota St., 5110, 197 (upgrades secondary)
Rd 6. Storm Johnson, RB, Cent. Florida, 6001, 218 (replaces Tate)
Rd 7. Trey Hopkins, OG, Texas, 6034, 302 (replaces Smith)

Conventional Wisdom is a rookie QB needs 20 starts in the NFL before you truly know what you have. 2014 gives Texans and Keenum his 20 starts. Schaub is released for cap reasons. McCarron is brought in as a backup and also a chance to be a starter. If all fails Texans go all in for a Franchise QB in 2015. At this time I do expect most underclassman QB to return to school. I expect only 1 or 2 to come out. If that happens 2015 will be a better year for QBs than 2014.

Texans have lost there pass rush, this is improved with Mosley and Murphy. Replaces Ninja who becomes a FA and cap casualty and upgrades OLB.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20131105/trent-murphy-stanford-cardinal/?sct=hp_t11_a2

mussop
11-06-2013, 02:23 PM
I do not subscribe to bigger is better, it's myth

Says the guy with ity bitty hands............. J/k :).

Here's the problem. If you're going to play a smaller NT he dam well better be special at penetrating and be unusually strong at the POA. Those guys are very hard to find. If they don't at least have those qualities they don't do much to help anyone around them. Mitchell is the perfect example.

You put a bigger stronger guy there and OCs can no longer run you out of the play all by themselves. They have to have help or it's a miss match. Hence one less guy to help block Watt or Smith. Which also makes it harder on the interior OL when we blitz up the middle.

Texian
11-06-2013, 04:43 PM
Says the guy with ity bitty hands............. J/k :).

Here's the problem. If you're going to play a smaller NT he dam well better be special at penetrating and be unusually strong at the POA. Those guys are very hard to find. If they don't at least have those qualities they don't do much to help anyone around them. Mitchell is the perfect example.

You put a bigger stronger guy there and OCs can no longer run you out of the play all by themselves. They have to have help or it's a miss match. Hence one less guy to help block Watt or Smith. Which also makes it harder on the interior OL when we blitz up the middle.

Pardon me if I go Wade's knowledge and expertise here with NTs over your summation and expectations. What I have found in my 20+ years of research is very few 320lb + NT can play well in the NFL and most who get drafted maybe only play 300-400 snaps of a 1000 snap season. For every Wilfork or Ngata there are dozens and dozens of 320 + lb NT drafted who end up being much less effective than 1 gap penetrating DT.

WolverineFan
11-06-2013, 05:24 PM
Pardon me if I go Wade's knowledge and expertise here with NTs over your summation and expectations. What I have found in my 20+ years of research is very few 320lb + NT can play well in the NFL and most who get drafted maybe only play 300-400 snaps of a 1000 snap season. For every Wilfork or Ngata there are dozens and dozens of 320 + lb NT drafted who end up being much less effective than 1 gap penetrating DT.

Very good points. I've never subscribed to the "get a fat guy in there" mantra either. Plugging a 340+ guy in there just because he's 340 isn't going to do jack.

However, I think Nix is in that line of Ngata-like players. Maybe not that talented, but I think he could thrive in a one-gap system like ours.

mussop
11-06-2013, 11:16 PM
Pardon me if I go Wade's knowledge and expertise here with NTs over your summation and expectations. What I have found in my 20+ years of research is very few 320lb + NT can play well in the NFL and most who get drafted maybe only play 300-400 snaps of a 1000 snap season. For every Wilfork or Ngata there are dozens and dozens of 320 + lb NT drafted who end up being much less effective than 1 gap penetrating DT.

And for every jay Ratliff there are dozens and dozens of earl Mitchell's. Sorry but with all of wades knowledge and expertise he was wrong on this one. He was betting on Mitchell being able to have a Jay Ratliff effect. It hasn't happened.


Actually I don't care what size the guy is. I just want anyone that can push the pocket, comand double teams and keep our LBs clean. What I have found in my almost 40 years of research is that it's easier to find bigger guys (320 plus) that can do that than smallish (for nt ) guys. Look up every top 5 3/4 defense there has ever been and Ill bet you anything that there are twice as many 320 plus guys manning the NT position as sub 320 guys.

Again I'm not nor never have suggested finding an untalented big fat guy to throw in there.

Texian
11-07-2013, 09:24 AM
And for every jay Ratliff there are dozens and dozens of earl Mitchell's. Sorry but with all of wades knowledge and expertise he was wrong on this one. He was betting on Mitchell being able to have a Jay Ratliff effect. It hasn't happened.


Actually I don't care what size the guy is. I just want anyone that can push the pocket, comand double teams and keep our LBs clean. What I have found in my almost 40 years of research is that it's easier to find bigger guys (320 plus) that can do that than smallish (for nt ) guys. Look up every top 5 3/4 defense there has ever been and Ill bet you anything that there are twice as many 320 plus guys manning the NT position as sub 320 guys.

Again I'm not nor never have suggested finding an untalented big fat guy to throw in there.

The reason Wade went with Mitchell instead of Ratliff is because Ratliff is a Cowboy not a Texan.

mussop
11-07-2013, 11:48 AM
The reason Wade went with Mitchell instead of Ratliff is because Ratliff is a Cowboy not a Texan.

Brilliant response! You sir are a MASTERdeBATER. :bubbles:

badboy
11-07-2013, 12:17 PM
Pardon me if I go Wade's knowledge and expertise here with NTs over your summation and expectations. What I have found in my 20+ years of research is very few 320lb + NT can play well in the NFL and most who get drafted maybe only play 300-400 snaps of a 1000 snap season. For every Wilfork or Ngata there are dozens and dozens of 320 + lb NT drafted who end up being much less effective than 1 gap penetrating DT.

You are going to have to link where Phillips has said he preferred smaller NTs. There are posts with link in this forum where Wade has pointed to previous NTs of different sizes that he played. He stated he takes what he has and tries to make them better. You can also say for every "lighter" Nose there are dozens who do not perform well. I think it depends on the fight in the dog rather than dog in fight. We have seen how Nose players have performed for Texans like Cody and Mitchell and I am ready to try a different approach. We get impact on the QB from Ninja, Watt and occasionally someone else but we need a way to shut down running game before the back gets past the LOS. Our Dline and LBs are not getting it done & why I am focusing on that in my mock.

Texian
11-07-2013, 01:42 PM
You are going to have to link where Phillips has said he preferred smaller NTs. There are posts with link in this forum where Wade has pointed to previous NTs of different sizes that he played. He stated he takes what he has and tries to make them better. You can also say for every "lighter" Nose there are dozens who do not perform well. I think it depends on the fight in the dog rather than dog in fight. We have seen how Nose players have performed for Texans like Cody and Mitchell and I am ready to try a different approach. We get impact on the QB from Ninja, Watt and occasionally someone else but we need a way to shut down running game before the back gets past the LOS. Our Dline and LBs are not getting it done & why I am focusing on that in my mock.

I think if you review Wade's first press conference after being hired as Houston's DC I believe IIRC you will hear Wade discussing how he wants to attack the football and how he has been successful with a smaller 1 gap penetrating NT and he doesn't need a monster 2 gap NT in his system.

I understand what you're saying but science says that most 340 lb NT do not have the physical stamina to play 1000+ snaps a season and on average are limited to 300-400 snaps played effectively. Of course there are exceptions to every rule Wilfork and Ngata being two.

infantrycak
11-07-2013, 01:50 PM
I think if you review Wade's first press conference after being hired as Houston's DC I believe IIRC you will hear Wade discussing how he wants to attack the football and how he has been successful with a smaller 1 gap penetrating NT and he doesn't need a monster 2 gap NT in his system.

Key word in there being "need." Wade was being asked about the absence of a big body on the roster and responded with he had worked with both to success.

FYI - before you go off on a tangent, I am not a proponent of big NTs.

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2013, 01:52 PM
I think if you review Wade's first press conference after being hired as Houston's DC I believe IIRC you will hear Wade discussing how he wants to attack the football and how he has been successful with a smaller 1 gap penetrating NT and he doesn't need a monster 2 gap NT in his system.

I understand what you're saying but science says that most 340 lb NT do not have the physical stamina to play 1000+ snaps a season and on average are limited to 300-400 snaps played effectively. Of course there are exceptions to every rule Wilfork and Ngata being two.

Wade had Jammal Williams IIRC at San Diego and he was a big guy . I think Wade's defense isn't much to write home about . If you get inside the 20 yd line , you're going to score . Could that be a symptom of having to light of guys in the middle .

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2013, 01:57 PM
Key word in there being "need." Wade was being asked about the absence of a big body on the roster and responded with he had worked with both to success.

FYI - before you go off on a tangent, I am not a proponent of big NTs.

Big , strong guys who can move , don't last long in the draft . The last being Poe .

Corrosion
11-07-2013, 02:51 PM
Big , strong guys who can move , don't last long in the draft . The last being Poe .

There are only a handful of these guy's in the league ... everyone else is looking for them.

steelbtexan
11-07-2013, 03:29 PM
There are only a handful of these guy's in the league ... everyone else is looking for them.

Yep

I think Nix can be that type of player.

Look at what Star has done for Carolinas pass rush this yr compared to last yr, even though he doesn't have a bunch of sacks. Same with Poe and KC.

I can only dream of how good the pass rush would be if Watt was next to Nix, with Murphy and Mercilus rushing from the outside.

If Nix falls to the Texans picking him would be a no brainer. Despite being a huge man he can move. I would trade up for Murphy into the bottom of the 1st and instatly have the pass rush the team has been lacking for yrs.

Like I stated before the Texans wont be able to fix everything in one draft. But getting JJ some help and finding a RT would make me happy.

Murphy will be a huge upgrade over Ninja. IMHO

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2013, 04:35 PM
There are only a handful of these guy's in the league ... everyone else is looking for them.

Yep ... you know what Vince Wolfork , BJ Raji , Lynval Joseph , Haloti Gnata , and Casey Hampton all have in common , besides being at least 330 lbs ?

Texian
11-07-2013, 06:08 PM
what the coach said......

http://prod.www.texans.clubs.nfl.com/tv-media/videos/Phillips-happy-hes-a-Texan/34a15282-7450-4309-a97d-7b056ff56727

WolverineFan
11-07-2013, 06:10 PM
Wade had Jammal Williams IIRC at San Diego and he was a big guy . I think Wade's defense isn't much to write home about . If you get inside the 20 yd line , you're going to score . Could that be a symptom of having to light of guys in the middle.

It's a symptom of playing man coverage with inferior DB's, IMO. This defense is usually pretty good when it comes to ypc against and rush TD's against. We get scorched in the redzone because we have only have 2-3 guys who are capable of matching up in man coverage. Teams exploit that endlessly, as well have all witnessed.

Corrosion
11-07-2013, 06:42 PM
Yep ... you know what Vince Wolfork , BJ Raji , Lynval Joseph , Haloti Gnata , and Casey Hampton all have in common , besides being at least 330 lbs ?

:trophy: ???

Texian
11-15-2013, 12:22 PM
The latest revision to the mock:

1. Johnny "TEXAN" Manziel, QB Texas A&M
2. Jeremiah Attachou, OLB, Ga Tech
3. Brandon Sherff, RT, Iowa
4. Arthur Lynch, TE, Georgia
5. Marcus Williams, CB, North Dakota State
6. Storm Johnson, RB, Central Florida
7. Trey Hopkins, OG, Texas

Texian
11-17-2013, 10:50 AM
The latest revision to the mock:

1. Johnny "TEXAN" Manziel, QB Texas A&M
2. Jeremiah Attachou, OLB, Ga Tech
3. Brandon Sherff, RT, Iowa
4. Arthur Lynch, TE, Georgia
5. Marcus Williams, CB, North Dakota State
6. Storm Johnson, RB, Central Florida
7. Trey Hopkins, OG, Texas

I just finished watching Iowa vs Purdue tape, Brandon Scherff is unlikely to make it until Rd 3. Moving him up to RD 2 and a Top 40 pick and sliding Attachou back to RD 3 Top 75 pick. Lynch played well vs Auburn, Storm Johnson ran for 122/8.9 ypc.

1. Johnny "TEXAN" Manziel, QB Texas A&M
2. Brandon Sherff, RT, Iowa
3. Jeremiah Attachou, OLB, Ga Tech
4. Arthur Lynch, TE, Georgia
5. Marcus Williams, CB, North Dakota State
6. Storm Johnson, RB, Central Florida
7. Trey Hopkins, OG, Texas

Texian
12-16-2013, 06:38 PM
If the draft were today, I would revise my mock. Mainly because the Texans today have the 1st pick instead of the 5th.

1. Blake Bortles, QB, 6'4", 230, UCF
2. Aaron Donald, DE, 6'0" 285, Pitt
3. Jeremiah Attaochu, OLB, 6'3", 242, GA Tech
4. Billy Turner, OT, 6'5", 318, NDSU - contingent on 25+ 225 reps
5. Marcus Williams, CB, 5'11" 197, NDSU - contingent on a sub 4.5
6. Trey Hopkins, LG, 6'4", 305, UT
7. Crockett Gilmore, TE, 6'6", 255, CSU - because name is perfect for a Texan.

If Bortles returns to school I am all in for a trade back.