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View Full Version : Why In the World did We Not Use our OFFENSIVE SYSTEM in this Game?


Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 01:48 PM
The entire game, Keenum was not running our traditional offense. We went exclusively to the pistol shotgun formation.

Why?

In this video Kubiak talks about having to make a complete change to what they did. Talks about having only 1 week to prepare:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/0ap2000000266724/Texans-postgame-press-conference

It was as if he was using it as an excuse as to why they lost.

My question is, why? Why did you have to completely change your system? I understand going with what Keenum was familiar with but why? He was on your roster learning the playbook the entire year last year on practice squad plus this year where he showed great competence in this preseason.

Why in the world would you go away from that? Why didnt you give Keenum a chance to play in your system? Did Kubiak not think he could be successful in his sytem he's been learning for the last 2 years? Did he not want Keenum to be successful in his system?

I dont get the sudden change. Why let Yates and Schaub run it but not keenum?

I find this totally odd.

utahmark
10-21-2013, 01:57 PM
The entire game, Keenum was not running our traditional offense. We went exclusively to the pistol shotgun formation.

Why?

In this video Kubiak talks about having to make a complete change to what they did. Talks about having only 1 week to prepare:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/0ap2000000266724/Texans-postgame-press-conference

It was as if he was using it as an excuse as to why they lost.

My question is, why? Why did you have to completely change your system? I understand going with what Keenum was familiar with but why? He was on your roster learning the playbook the entire year last year on practice squad plus this year where he showed great competence in this preseason.

Why in the world would you go away from that? Why didnt you give Keenum a chance to play in your system? Did Kubiak not think he could be successful in his sytem he's been learning for the last 2 years? Did he not want Keenum to be successful in his system?

I dont get the sudden change. Why let Yates and Schaub run it but not keenum?

I find this totally odd.

We need change. Go back and watch our first 6 games.

The Pencil Neck
10-21-2013, 01:58 PM
The offensive playbook is large. (People are always whining about the size of his Denny's menu... which is just silliness.)

Kubiak tries to call plays that are best suited to the personnel available. All coaches do that.

Personally, I find it interesting that Kubiak added the Pistol to the playbook in the offseason. It's almost like he was expecting to incorporate some stuff for Case.

But it's like Shanahan up in Washington with RGIII. He's trying to be successful and he's willing to experiment and change things up to do that.

Mr teX
10-21-2013, 02:13 PM
The entire game, Keenum was not running our traditional offense. We went exclusively to the pistol shotgun formation.

Why?

In this video Kubiak talks about having to make a complete change to what they did. Talks about having only 1 week to prepare:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/0ap2000000266724/Texans-postgame-press-conference

It was as if he was using it as an excuse as to why they lost.

My question is, why? Why did you have to completely change your system? I understand going with what Keenum was familiar with but why? He was on your roster learning the playbook the entire year last year on practice squad plus this year where he showed great competence in this preseason.

Why in the world would you go away from that? Why didnt you give Keenum a chance to play in your system? Did Kubiak not think he could be successful in his sytem he's been learning for the last 2 years? Did he not want Keenum to be successful in his system?

I dont get the sudden change. Why let Yates and Schaub run it but not keenum?

I find this totally odd.

Look, it was a last ditch effort to save the season & he had a rookie qb making his 1st start in a hostile enviornment vs. a top defense...using concepts & running plays he was already familar with made Keenum feel more comfy & gave him the best chance to suceed & us pull out the victory.

In addition to that, it was clear from our 1st 6 games, teams were on to us.. we had to make serious changes with how we call plays instead of 1-2 tendency breakers like we'd been doing.

Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 02:14 PM
We need change. Go back and watch our first 6 games.

i get it. That's why keenum is starting instead of Yates.

Why completely change the playbook? Its not like they just signed Keenum. The man has been here the past two years learning the offense. Why completely abandon your system?

Arent you trying to find out what you have in keenum? What's the point of playing him if your not gonna allow him to run your offense?

The offensive playbook is large. (People are always whining about the size of his Denny's menu... which is just silliness.)

Kubiak tries to call plays that are best suited to the personnel available. All coaches do that.

Personally, I find it interesting that Kubiak added the Pistol to the playbook in the offseason. It's almost like he was expecting to incorporate some stuff for Case.

But it's like Shanahan up in Washington with RGIII. He's trying to be successful and he's willing to experiment and change things up to do that.

I understand incorporating some stuff keenum is familiar with but to completely abandon and change your system is just not smart. What's the point of playing Keenum if you are not gonna find out if he can run your system or not?

I think it was detrimental both to Keenum and the rest of the offense to completely change how you play. I bet that drastic change attributed to a lot of the sacks and lack of blitz coverage.

Keenum has spent to year learning your system, played well enough in preseason to make the team, suddenly its his turn to play and you dont play your system.

This is just bizarre in my eyes.

Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 02:18 PM
Look, it was a last ditch effort to save the season & he had a rookie qb making his 1st start in a hostile enviornment vs. a top defense...using concepts & running plays he was already familar made him feel more comfy gave him the best chance to suceed & us pull out the victory.

that makes no sense whatsoever. Keenum has spent the last two years learning his sytem and played well enough to make the team and play great in preseason using your system.

why suddenly pull that chair from under not only keenum but the rest of your offense? I bet that drastic change contributed to a lot of the blitz problems. Why not run what your team knows how to run and what your young qb has been learning and studying the last two years?

Arent you trying to figure out what you have in keenum? Dont you want to see if he can run your system?

To completely abandon what your team knows and what your young qb has been trying to learn and study the past two years is just asinine.

htownfan32
10-21-2013, 02:29 PM
Kekkest of keks. People say Kubes is too reliant on his old outdated system, and when he opens it up to help out his personnel (i.e. Keenum) be successful, he gets railed on for not doing it the same way he was before.

Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 02:32 PM
Kekkest of keks. People say Kubes is too reliant on his old outdated system, and when he opens it up to help out his personnel (i.e. Keenum) be successful, he gets railed on for not doing it the same way he was before.

he completely abandon what the whole offense knew!!! what his qb has spent the past two years learning.

why didnt he just implement some pistol shotgun, why did he totally abandon his system?

Dont you think that's detrimental to your players and chances?

welsh texan
10-21-2013, 02:36 PM
How much of the texans offense has Keenum actually ran in practice given that he's been on the scout team his entire career till last week?

I take it apart from training camp that means he is running the upcoming opponents playbook against our 1st string D in order for them to learn??

Speedy
10-21-2013, 02:36 PM
And if Graham catches that ball, if the throw to Nuk was a little better or Nuk finds a way to hang onto it, if both RBs don't go down, there'd be no need for a thread like this. Not that there is a need for it anyway.

thunderkyss
10-21-2013, 02:37 PM
The entire game, Keenum was not running our traditional offense. We went exclusively to the pistol shotgun formation.

Why?

In this video Kubiak talks about having to make a complete change to what they did. Talks about having only 1 week to prepare:

My question is, why? Why did you have to completely change your system? I understand going with what Keenum was familiar with but why? He was on your roster learning the playbook the entire year last year on practice squad plus this year where he showed great competence in this preseason.

Why in the world would you go away from that? Why didnt you give Keenum a chance to play in your system? Did Kubiak not think he could be successful in his sytem he's been learning for the last 2 years? Did he not want Keenum to be successful in his system?

I dont get the sudden change. Why let Yates and Schaub run it but not keenum?

I find this totally odd.

The third string QB runs the scout team. He does not run our offense. Instead, he tries to mimic the other teams offense. His job is to give the defense certain "looks"

After training camp & preseason, our ones on offense do not practice against our ones on defense. They practice against a scout team.

Keenum has been in the QB meeting room with Yates & Schaub, but on the field he has not been practicing/learning our offense.

Mr teX
10-21-2013, 02:38 PM
that makes no sense whatsoever. Keenum has spent the last two years learning his sytem and played well enough to make the team and play great in preseason using your system.

why suddenly pull that chair from under not only keenum but the rest of your offense? I bet that drastic change contributed to a lot of the blitz problems. Why not run what your team knows how to run and what your young qb has been learning and studying the last two years?

Arent you trying to figure out what you have in keenum? Dont you want to see if he can run your system?

To completely abandon what your team knows and what your young qb has been trying to learn and study the past two years is just asinine.

That stuff is likely already in the playbook u just don't see them as often with Schaub.....I know I've seen the TE throw back pass graham dropped before...
I'm sure all those guys have packages that they work best out of on kubiak's Denny's menu...

Playoffs
10-21-2013, 02:38 PM
Keenum Separated (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9857436/bill-barnwell-week-7)
What was most interesting was how the Texans installed plays that put Keenum in the shotgun and even occasionally in the pistol. Those moves hint at the bigger schematic change that could be to come for the Texans. As Chris Brown noted during the game on Twitter...
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball (https://twitter.com/smartfootball/status/392032584479547392)
Big pass from Case Keenum to DeVier Posey came on an old Kevin Sumlin packaged play of Y-stick with inside zone. Keenum read OLB for throw
the Texans even took things a step further.

Check out this 42-yard pass to DeVier Posey (http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/0ap2000000266400/Keenum-42-yard-pass), most of which comes after the catch. It's a simple packaged play with two primary options based off a simple read of the outside linebacker to that side, Justin Houston. If Houston contests the five-yard stick route being run by Posey in the slot, Keenum has the numbers to run the inside zone and hand the ball off to his running back. If Houston rushes the passer or contests the running play, it's his job to throw Posey open; since the inside linebacker honors the run-action, he throws the ball inside and Posey makes a tackler miss.

Now, packaged plays aren't anything new to the NFL, and I haven't watched every Texans snap over the past few years, but I don't think Gary Kubiak had this in his playbook for Schaub. It's reminiscent of the offensive scheme Keenum ran in college, and it's no surprise that Kubiak installed it to give Keenum a play he was experienced and comfortable running during a testing first start.

Here's where it gets interesting. You can't install a new offense overnight, nor would you want to. What you do need is the free time — say, a bye week — to install some new offensive concepts. Guess what the Texans have this week? Kubiak undoubtedly won't want to scrap his entire offensive playbook and just run the spread, but if he's going to keep playing Keenum, he'll want to integrate the things that work from his zone-blocking rushing attack with some concepts and plays from the playbook Keenum worked with at the University of Houston.

Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 02:44 PM
Keenum Separated (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9857436/bill-barnwell-week-7)

i get using plays he's familiar with, but to completely abandon what your whole offense knows and what your young qb spent the last two years learning is just not smart.

incorporate plays he's familiar with. Not completely abandon what your team knows. Its i think the main reason why the offensive line played so horribly yesterday.

welsh texan
10-21-2013, 02:44 PM
The third string QB runs the scout team. He does not run our offense. Instead, he tries to mimic the other teams offense. His job is to give the defense certain "looks"

After training camp & preseason, our ones on offense do not practice against our ones on defense. They practice against a scout team.

Keenum has been in the QB meeting room with Yates & Schaub, but on the field he has not been practicing/learning our offense.


Beat ya to it buddy!!

Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 02:49 PM
The third string QB runs the scout team. He does not run our offense. Instead, he tries to mimic the other teams offense. His job is to give the defense certain "looks"

After training camp & preseason, our ones on offense do not practice against our ones on defense. They practice against a scout team.

Keenum has been in the QB meeting room with Yates & Schaub, but on the field he has not been practicing/learning our offense.

that still doesnt excuse abandoning your entire offensive system and installing an offense the rest of your team doesnt really know.

your telling me all keenum has done to familiarize himself with this offense is just to sit in the QB meeting room is a cope out joke. I reckon these last two years keenum has run more reps in this system and it would have served the texans better if they just incorporated some plays instead of drastically abandoning your entire system that your entire offense including your young qb knows.

Learning the system for two years running it in practice > using a system nobody knows but keenum in practice for 1 week.

EVOLVIST
10-21-2013, 02:58 PM
Keenum Separated (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9857436/bill-barnwell-week-7)

And here's the rub: I would be very surprised if we didn't see the Texans use Case under center, as well, come the Indy game (of course, that is IF Keenum starts). We saw a lot of Case under center in the pre-season, with the exception of the last game, where he was in the pistol a lot. He looked damn good under center, compared to last year. Natural, even.

When you have a QB who can do both effectively - added to an already confusing Texans scheme, which makes it difficult for a defense to tell pre-snap whether it's a run or pass - then it begins to smell a lot more like victory (at least in theory).

Another factor: let's face it, as good as Arian is - and I'd like a breakdown on this, because I'm going by the ol' eyeball test - Arian does not seem to run well out of shotgun. Arian needs to be "seen" by the defense, only when he has passed them...not before.

I'm just saying the flexibility is there for Keenum unlike any other QB on roster. In the words of Kubiak, "That's a good problem to have."

welsh texan
10-21-2013, 02:59 PM
So you don't tailor your gameplan to make the most of the most important position on the field (QB) and his strengths?

You don't tailor your gameplan to the strengths of your least experienced, most likely to make rookie type errors, most likely to lose the game for you if he gets it wrong (in this case QB).

I just don't get what point you are trying to make here, I thought the offense showed a big step forward in this game, as much as I'm a case fan there was no guarantee he wasn't going to be well and truly outpf his depth.

You'd rather see a different QB make the same plays Schaub made? Did you think our offense was doing well before? Are you Matt Schaub??

The d lost this game, the chiefs were able to march down the field on us at will, despite having Alex smith at QB. The o wasn't fantastic but not bad for a first ever start for the kid at QB and given how poor it's been to date.

Good to see receivers getting big gains rather than just dink and dunk too, felt like every other completion was a 30 yarder.

Great to see posey flashing again too, that was a bad injury and he seems to be back on track quickly.

Scooter
10-21-2013, 03:01 PM
as welsh and TK have said, it's more about what keenum has been running and comfortable with. give him 2 weeks with the first stringers and kubiak can implement a more natural scheme that also allows for more adjustments. as it was we only had a week to put together something the offense as a whole could run successfully. there simply wasnt time to put case into matt schaub's offense, so we used what we could assemble in a few days.

htownfan32
10-21-2013, 03:07 PM
And here's the rub: I would be very surprised if we didn't see the Texans use Case under center, as well, come the Indy game (of course, that is IF Keenum starts). We saw a lot of Case under center in the pre-season, with the exception of the last game, where he was in the pistol a lot. He looked damn good under center, compared to last year. Natural, even.

When you have a QB who can do both effectively - added to an already confusing Texans scheme, which makes it difficult for a defense to tell pre-snap whether it's a run or pass - then it begins to smell a lot more like victory (at least in theory).

Another factor: let's face it, as good as Arian is - and I'd like a breakdown on this, because I'm going by the ol' eyeball test - Arian does not seem to run well out of shotgun. Arian needs to be "seen" by the defense, only when he has passed them...not before.

I'm just saying the flexibility is there for Keenum unlike any other QB on roster. In the words of Kubiak, "That's a good problem to have."

Along this line I can see us picking up Ben Malena out of TA&M as an UDFA who runs effectively from the shotgun. Sumlin system and all.
Yesterday showed that we can never have enough running backs.

Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 03:10 PM
So you don't tailor your gameplan to make the most of the most important position on the field (QB) and his strengths?

You don't tailor your gameplan to the strengths of your least experienced, most likely to make rookie type errors, most likely to lose the game for you if he gets it wrong (in this case QB).

I just don't get what point you are trying to make here, I thought the offense showed a big step forward in this game, as much as I'm a case fan there was no guarantee he wasn't going to be well and truly outpf his depth.

You'd rather see a different QB make the same plays Schaub made? Did you think our offense was doing well before? Are you Matt Schaub??

The d lost this game, the chiefs were able to march down the field on us at will, despite having Alex smith at QB. The o wasn't fantastic but not bad for a first ever start for the kid at QB and given how poor it's been to date.

Good to see receivers getting big gains rather than just dink and dunk too, felt like every other completion was a 30 yarder.

Great to see posey flashing again too, that was a bad injury and he seems to be back on track quickly.


yes tailor it. incorporate what he is familiar with.

dont abandon your entire system that the whole offense knows and what your young qb has been learning the past two years.

thunderkyss
10-21-2013, 03:10 PM
that still doesnt excuse abandoning your entire offensive system and installing an offense the rest of your team doesnt really know.

your telling me all keenum has done to familiarize himself with this offense is just to sit in the QB meeting room is a cope out joke. I reckon these last two years keenum has run more reps in this system and it would have served the texans better if they just incorporated some plays instead of drastically abandoning your entire system that your entire offense including your young qb knows.

Learning the system for two years running it in practice > using a system nobody knows but keenum in practice for 1 week.

Keenum played pretty well considering. I would think that it worked.... whatever Kubiak did.

I know I didn't understand putting in the pistol formation for Matt, it doesn't buy us anything. I don't think. It makes a lot more sense that it was put in for Case, that Kubiak was thinking way back in the preseason, that Case would probably see significant playing time this season.

But the main thing here, is that we were playing KC & that pass rush. If we were playing a team with a much more mundane pass rush, he probably wouldn't have gone so heavy with the pistol & shot gun formations.

Actually taking the ball from center, dropping back, then picking up the free blitzer... that's a lot to take in. We could have put him in the shotgun, but you lose most of your run game. The pistol gives us a hybrid look...... it's really a one back set, but allows the QB to keep his eyes on the defense, but still run the ball like you "normally" would.

After watching that game I find it hard to make the case that Kubiak tried to sabotage the kid. Believe me, if there was a sliver of a case, I'd be all over it.

Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 03:16 PM
Keenum played pretty well considering. I would think that it worked.... whatever Kubiak did.

I know I didn't understand putting in the pistol formation for Matt, it doesn't buy us anything. I don't think. It makes a lot more sense that it was put in for Case, that Kubiak was thinking way back in the preseason, that Case would probably see significant playing time this season.

But the main thing here, is that we were playing KC & that pass rush. If we were playing a team with a much more mundane pass rush, he probably wouldn't have gone so heavy with the pistol & shot gun formations.

Actually taking the ball from center, dropping back, then picking up the free blitzer... that's a lot to take in. We could have put him in the shotgun, but you lose most of your run game. The pistol gives us a hybrid look...... it's really a one back set, but allows the QB to keep his eyes on the defense, but still run the ball like you "normally" would.

After watching that game I find it hard to make the case that Kubiak tried to sabotage the kid. Believe me, if there was a sliver of a case, I'd be all over it.


it didnt work. we lost. the game was lost when the offensive line couldnt handle the blitzing. I bet that had a lot to do with completely abandoning your system. I would have loved to see some zone running and play action with keenum.

I mean arent we also trying to figure out if keenum can play in this system? What's the point of playing him if you are not gonna find out if he can run your system?

How would the game have gone if we ran our system while incorporating the pistol shotgun? Wouldnt that have been the smarter move?

Uncle Rico
10-21-2013, 03:17 PM
I thought Keenum had a grasp on the entire playbook?

Guess not.

dream_team
10-21-2013, 03:23 PM
I think this is a legitimate question that I'm hoping Kubiak answers sometime this week. I was expecting to see alot more shotgun, but not exclusively! Those people that complain Kubiak is too predicatable can't complain about this one.

I also think this is the reason our run game wasn't very strong. We can't run the stretch play from the shotgun, can we? I don't recall seeing any.

I'm also concerned about Keenum's ability to pass from a 3-step drop, which Schaub did alot when under center. The shotgun helps in this case.

Bulls on Parade
10-21-2013, 03:23 PM
My friend thinks Case Keenum is too small to play quarterback in the NFL but he was very impressed with his performance yesterday. Isn't Drew Brees an inch smaller and nearly the same weight as Keenum? I'm not saying Keenum is going to have that type of success, but lack of size doesn't mean you can't become an elite quarterback in the NFL.

Lord Bills
10-21-2013, 03:24 PM
I think this is a legitimate question that I'm hoping Kubiak answers sometime this week. I was expecting to see alot more shotgun, but not exclusively! Those people that complain Kubiak is too predicatable can't complain about this one.

I also think this is the reason our run game wasn't very strong. We can't run the stretch play from the shotgun, can we? I don't recall seeing any.

I'm also concerned about Keenum's ability to pass from a 3-step drop, which Schaub did alot when under center. The shotgun helps in this case.

finally somebody gets it!

ThaJokaa
10-21-2013, 03:31 PM
Maybe because we had no run game?

We need RBs who can actually run, and not just take up space on the field in order to do strech plays and all the other run plays.

texanhead08
10-21-2013, 03:38 PM
This board has been bitching all year for Kubiak to do something creative and he does and everyone loses their mind. WTF ??

Vinny
10-21-2013, 03:42 PM
This board has been bitching all year for Kubiak to do something creative and he does and everyone loses their mind. WTF ?? Let's keep some perspective...thousands and thousands of fans with a few folks arguing or just trying to be contrary. I'd probably be right if I made the statement that most of the fans wouldn't post in threads like this. Most stuff like this is just poking the pig kind of thing...looking for a reaction. Being contrary to be contrary, or as some calls it, being TK'd. Let them die on the vine.

Playoffs
10-21-2013, 03:50 PM
Kubiak said the biggest concern was putting too much on Keenum's plate. So either Case isn't game ready with our complete playbook or our coaches are unable to teach it to him.

Hervoyel
10-21-2013, 03:52 PM
that still doesnt excuse abandoning your entire offensive system and installing an offense the rest of your team doesnt really know.

your telling me all keenum has done to familiarize himself with this offense is just to sit in the QB meeting room is a cope out joke. I reckon these last two years keenum has run more reps in this system and it would have served the texans better if they just incorporated some plays instead of drastically abandoning your entire system that your entire offense including your young qb knows.

Learning the system for two years running it in practice > using a system nobody knows but keenum in practice for 1 week.

They've told you a couple of times already but here it is again. He does not run this offense in practice. He runs a "simulation" of what the next opponent's offense will do.

I saw yesterday as being something of a mash up of what Keenum did know well of our offense and what Gary could give him that was familiar. You saw as much of Sumlin's old offense as the rest of the Texans starters were capable of absorbing in the short period of time they had. Not as much of the Texans offense as Keenum could master in that same amount of time. I imagine that we would have seen more of our usual if our RB's had been effective/healthy. Instead by the fourth quarter all we had to turn to was the UH stuff.

Makes me kind of wonder if they'll take a couple of weeks now to get Keenum up to speed on some more of what the Texans do regularly. They've got two weeks. I hope they put it to good use.

IlliniJen
10-21-2013, 03:56 PM
Using the shotgun and the pistol against a speedy, relentless pass rush rather than doing 3 and 5 step drops from under center made a lot of sense to me personally. I thought it was putting Keenum in a good position to get the ball quickly and make plays quickly.

You can't play action with no running game.

infantrycak
10-21-2013, 04:00 PM
You can't play action with no running game.

Except the statuesque Schaub who did exactly that.

ObsiWan
10-21-2013, 04:05 PM
that still doesnt excuse abandoning your entire offensive system and installing an offense the rest of your team doesnt really know.

your telling me all keenum has done to familiarize himself with this offense is just to sit in the QB meeting room is a cope out joke. I reckon these last two years keenum has run more reps in this system and it would have served the texans better if they just incorporated some plays instead of drastically abandoning your entire system that your entire offense including your young qb knows.

Learning the system for two years running it in practice > using a system nobody knows but keenum in practice for 1 week.

I think the change was to allow Case to get a better look at the pass rush coming at him as much as letting him run UofH-style plays.

And with the way the line was blocking (or more accurately WASN'T blocking) I think he did the kid a favor by having him take the snap in shotgun formation.

thunderkyss
10-21-2013, 06:14 PM
it didnt work. we lost. the game was lost when the offensive line couldnt handle the blitzing. I bet that had a lot to do with completely abandoning your system. I would have loved to see some zone running and play action with keenum.


We did not "completely abandon" anything. We've been working the pistol in all year. Probably for this very reason. The only thing that changed in the run game by setting Keenum up in the pistol is that he's already closer to Arian, he doesn't have to run backwards. The action on the line is the same, the action of Arian is the same. Had Arian not got hurt the run game would have been just fine.

Ben Tate hasn't ran well in the last three weeks. About the same time Foster started running well.


I mean arent we also trying to figure out if keenum can play in this system? What's the point of playing him if you are not gonna find out if he can run your system?


No. He wouldn't be starting if Kubiak doesn't "know" that he can play in his system. We're trying to find out if he can handle being a starting QB in this league. Keeping his head, not panicking, not getting scared. He's not going to learn the system in a week.


How would the game have gone if we ran our system while incorporating the pistol shotgun? Wouldnt that have been the smarter move?

That's what we did. Moving the QB from under center to the pistol doesn't change a ton for the routes the receivers ran, from the way the OL blocks the run, or pass protect, or how the RB reads the blocks.

What part of "our system" are you thinking changed? Everything else was the same, except where the QB spotted up.

legacy_gt
10-21-2013, 06:19 PM
you guys are funny that complain about kubiak being too predictable on the plays. I like the the gun with case. gives us a different look.

the offense is effective and with a healthy foster in there, we win and score on 1st and goal.

thunderkyss
10-21-2013, 06:24 PM
My friend thinks Case Keenum is too small to play quarterback in the NFL but he was very impressed with his performance yesterday. Isn't Drew Brees an inch smaller and nearly the same weight as Keenum? I'm not saying Keenum is going to have that type of success, but lack of size doesn't mean you can't become an elite quarterback in the NFL.

I thought Aaron Rodgers was a 6'5"-6'6" guy. I had no idea he was a stretched 6'2" standing next to each other, you probably wouldn't be able to tell who was taller: Yates, Rodgers, Keenum.

mussop
10-21-2013, 06:28 PM
The only thing Kubiak should of done differently is move the pocket around in the fourth quarter to slow down the pass rush and give case the opportunity to make some plays with his legs.

thunderkyss
10-21-2013, 06:33 PM
Let's keep some perspective...thousands and thousands of fans with a few folks arguing or just trying to be contrary. I'd probably be right if I made the statement that most of the fans wouldn't post in threads like this. Most stuff like this is just poking the pig kind of thing...looking for a reaction. Being contrary to be contrary, or as some calls it, being TK'd. Let them die on the vine.

I think if we look back at some of my contrarisms, we'll see that I was ahead of the curve on a lot of issues... not all. But since I don't pat my back, or point out pack mentality, or have the power to delete threads......

you'd think I'd have warranted a smilie by now. :kitten:

thunderkyss
10-21-2013, 06:55 PM
Kubiak said the biggest concern was putting too much on Keenum's plate. So either Case isn't game ready with our complete playbook or our coaches are unable to teach it to him.

Did you watch Stargate? One of the main characters was an archaeologist who specialized in ancient languages. He stumbled upon an group of people who happened to speak one of those ancient languages.

When he heard it for the first time, he didn't recognize it, didn't know that he knew it. However, after listening to it a few times, after struggling through the pronunciations... he ended up becoming very proficient pretty fast.

Just a movie, I know. But the same principals apply. Keenum has seen our offense, probably knows the playbook well. But actually seeing it from behind center, with the ball in his hands... it's going to take a little time before he can handle the play-book & the #1 pass rush in the NFL.

corytx8
10-21-2013, 11:18 PM
Something to keep in mind guys is that we had no running game after both Foster and Tate that hurt. That didn't help our situation either. On the flip side, it going to take some time for Case to learn the entire playbook, but I am glad that he is finally starting.

michaelm
10-21-2013, 11:32 PM
A hallmark of Kubiak's offense is that they often run the exact same play out of many different formations throughout a game.
I wouldn't be surprised if you were seeing a lot of plays that they usually run, but this time they ran them from the shotgun or pistol formations.

ObsiWan
10-22-2013, 01:21 AM
I think if we look back at some of my contrarisms, we'll see that I was ahead of the curve on a lot of issues... not all. But since I don't pat my back, or point out pack mentality, or have the power to delete threads......

you'd think I'd have warranted a smilie by now. :kitten:

Hmmm...
this one
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTepSBU4020OPIqMLpYx8TIqgUkWsPw_ z7otaW1WQQ_u2PQMfiQ (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi286.photobucket.com%2F albums%2Fll114%2Frockhopperfan111%2F00000000000000 000000000000000000-2.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.xat.com%2Fshowthr ead.php%3F3382-Becomeing-a-xat-smilie-maker&docid=uanuEAZIFvdGBM&tbnid=NwZdhLpTvtBvAM%3A&w=700&h=700&ei=7xhmUs_bI4yA2QXJ2oCABg&ved=0CAIQxiAwAA&iact=c)

or this one?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT37ImR-jwgGCcx8HuN0CUjIlBoevOVrSRuUZFkxUzOOJjwyEO2AgmIMQI (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi30.tinypic.com%2F10mk4 g0.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mundoxat.com%2Fforo%2Fs howthread.php%3F2318-Smiles-de-xat-com-en-png!&docid=CSq_wBgoy2NkoM&tbnid=ENZrBKZS4hA-kM&w=700&h=340&ei=7xhmUs_bI4yA2QXJ2oCABg&ved=0CAUQxiAwAw&iact=c)

thunderkyss
10-22-2013, 07:22 AM
Hmmm...
this one
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT37ImR-jwgGCcx8HuN0CUjIlBoevOVrSRuUZFkxUzOOJjwyEO2AgmIMQI (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi30.tinypic.com%2F10mk4 g0.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mundoxat.com%2Fforo%2Fs howthread.php%3F2318-Smiles-de-xat-com-en-png!&docid=CSq_wBgoy2NkoM&tbnid=ENZrBKZS4hA-kM&w=700&h=340&ei=7xhmUs_bI4yA2QXJ2oCABg&ved=0CAUQxiAwAw&iact=c)

I was thinking something more like

http://cache.vevo.com/Content/VevoImages/video/AA3C5E9211CD6684A9B5113D4AEB6E9F.jpg

HJam72
10-22-2013, 07:32 AM
Another way Kubiak likes to outsmart the opposing DC is to run the exact same play he is thinking we will run just when he thinks we will do it. It's very confusing to me.

Uncle Rico
10-22-2013, 07:35 AM
I understood the reasoning for the pistol, but I absolutely hate running the ball out of that formation using a line cherry picked for the ZBS. The RB needs to build momentum running North/South and in that alignment the defense gains the advantage because the RB is a sitting duck for a second or two. I just hate it, run the zone read, some off tackle stretch just don't ask the guy to run parallel to the LOS in the NFL, will never work with the defensive athletes in the league.

Should have just went Run and Shoot/ Air Raid all game IMO.

76Texan
10-22-2013, 12:11 PM
A hallmark of Kubiak's offense is that they often run the exact same play out of many different formations throughout a game.
I wouldn't be surprised if you were seeing a lot of plays that they usually run, but this time they ran them from the shotgun or pistol formations.

The main difference of the pistol is that the QB is about four yards from the LOS; the RB is still at the same depth. We can have a FB in just the same; he lines up the same as in the offset I postion and never behind the QB as in the straight I.

We can still run the ZBS and play action off the pistol just the same; we never abandon our game plan.

Besides the pistol, I count 25 times when Keenum was in the shotgun (no RB directly behind him).

That's the same number of times I count for Yates and Schaub combined against the Rams.

Against the Niners, I count 27 times.

We really didn't go away from our base game; it's just that Keenum lined up mostly 4 yards from the LOS; that is all.
(Not exclusively, as I count 4 times that Keenum was under Center.)

Surreal McCoy
10-22-2013, 12:19 PM
I think this is a legitimate question that I'm hoping Kubiak answers sometime this week. I was expecting to see alot more shotgun, but not exclusively! Those people that complain Kubiak is too predicatable can't complain about this one.

Oh but they are. Never underestimate the ability of a Texan 'fan'.

thunderkyss
10-22-2013, 12:34 PM
The main difference of the pistol is that the QB is about four yards from the LOS; the RB is still at the same depth. We can have a FB in just the same; he lines up the same as in the offset I postion and never behind the QB as in the straight I.

We can still run the ZBS and play action off the pistol just the same; we never abandon our game plan.

Besides the pistol, I count 25 times when Keenum was in the shotgun (no RB directly behind him).

That's the same number of times I count for Yates and Schaub combined against the Rams.

Against the Niners, I count 27 times.

We really didn't go away from our base game; it's just that Keenum lined up mostly 4 yards from the LOS; that is all.
(Not exclusively, as I count 4 times that Keenum was under Center.)

I agree with you mostly. The only way the pistol hurts you is that you can't run a lot of counters..... but we don't any way, so like you said, getting Keenum out from under center did not take us out of our game plan.

However, I didn't see as many 2 TE sets & we got to the bottom of our WR depth chart. LeStar was back in the game.

76Texan
10-22-2013, 01:09 PM
I agree with you mostly. The only way the pistol hurts you is that you can't run a lot of counters..... but we don't any way, so like you said, getting Keenum out from under center did not take us out of our game plan.

However, I didn't see as many 2 TE sets & we got to the bottom of our WR depth chart. LeStar was back in the game.

I haven't checked the games, but the snap count figures from Football Outsiders saw negligible difference in the appearance of the TEs between the previous game and this one.

The Texans didn't use the FB much though; a big drop off from previous games.
Perhaps, with Foster out early, Kubiak wanted to save Greg Jones some, in case Tate can't go at all.

drs23
10-22-2013, 01:37 PM
This board has been bitching all year for Kubiak to do something creative and he does and everyone loses their mind. WTF ??

Ditto...

The man has so much angst toward him he can do no right.

And that ain't right.