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View Full Version : Who deserves more blame for the loss


burro
10-20-2013, 08:41 PM
I think the answer is obvious. No QB has much of a chance so long as Newton and Smith are starters..

Norg
10-20-2013, 08:43 PM
nahh I think the QB cant take some blame why not I say the hole teams is to blame

silvrhand
10-20-2013, 08:43 PM
Where is the Kubiak option?

rmartin65
10-20-2013, 08:44 PM
Jesus people, no one is blaming Keenum for the loss. Saying that he played ok is not saying that we should take him out back and shot.

santo
10-20-2013, 08:44 PM
The refs

amazing80
10-20-2013, 08:45 PM
Derek newton, the guy is a joke and should be let go

TexansBull
10-20-2013, 08:47 PM
How about Kansas City? There is a reason they are 7-0.

datchapin
10-20-2013, 08:47 PM
The options are rather limited. I chose the o-line simply because coaching wasn't an option.

Mr teX
10-20-2013, 08:49 PM
The o-line has sucked all year...this didnt just start with keenum....

Showtime100
10-20-2013, 08:54 PM
Where is the Kubiak option?

Yep. Before I knew the options I was going to hit Kubiak in this poll.

Anybody that votes Keenum on this poll might have watched the game, but certainly didn't see what 90% of the rest of us saw.

Lord Bills, great post. :)

CretorFrigg
10-20-2013, 09:00 PM
Offensive line is a complete joke, and ultimately that goes back to Kubiak and that joker Rick Smith.

Kubiak logic: Play empty sets when it is obvious Kansas City is blitzing.

steelbtexan
10-20-2013, 09:01 PM
It's on me

ljhog
10-20-2013, 09:01 PM
We couldn't run the ball at all.

Playoffs
10-20-2013, 09:07 PM
It's on Quessenberry for getting injured.

Rey
10-20-2013, 09:10 PM
I thought the team played better overall than they had been playing. My standards are low for now. I am upset we lost, but pleased with a lot of what I saw.

Seegara
10-20-2013, 10:34 PM
I think the answer is obvious. No QB has much of a chance so long as Newton and Smith are starters..
Please ask the mods to add 3. Coaching and 4. Defense to your poll and rezero the votes.

gafftop
10-20-2013, 10:55 PM
Where is the Kubiak option?

EXACTLY 1st and goal at one RUN RUN PASS

gafftop
10-20-2013, 11:02 PM
How about whole brain trust OwnerGM/Coaches

DocBar
10-20-2013, 11:18 PM
Gary Kubiak.

-never adjusted to the constant blitzing by the defense. No screen pass, no short hot routes, no draw plays, and totally went away from our regular play calling. Those were not the same plays that schaub was using.

-not activating cierre woods

-conservative play calling was evident throughout the game. The baffling conservative call right before the half, running then suddenly throwing. Mind boggling.

Defense

-Joe Mays and Ed Reed is killing us. Ed Reed missing tackles, penalties, joe mays just looks lost out there.

-couldnt stop the chiefs even though they were on 3rd and long. No inside presence. It was never addressed in the draft. Instead they burn picks on two outside linebackers that we didnt need. We needed ILBs and DT help but was never addressed.

Special teams

-what is it gonna take to fire Joe Marciano? Horrible coverage.Pretty good post. AT least you didn't mention audibles. :kitten:

Joe Mays has looked pretty OK to me. I don't understand the hate some have for him.

I don't think Kubiak was overly conservative. I think he made calls we aren't used to based on Case's strengths. They are much different than Schaub's because they include a strong arm, mobility and a desire to remain upright instead of assuming the fetal position at the slightest hint of pressure. That explains why the play calls were different.

The reason they didn't call more screens or draws is because Tate was/is very banged up (broken ribs?) and Foster was out with a hammy. WR screens can very easily become a pick 6 in tight man coverage, like KC played all day.

Wade/players aren't doing a very good job of disguising coverages/blitzes. The D, as a whole, are pretty bad right now. There appears to be no option but Watt for a consistent pass rush and the constant blitzing is leaving gaping holes for RB's that can reach the 2nd level.

Ed Reed needs a clipboard in his hand and a ball cap on his head. If we're going to pay him for his experience, let it be by going over film and sideline picks with Keo(I can't believe I typed that) and DJ. Reed is a complete liability on the field.

Marciano should be ran out of Texas on a rail. He's outlived his contributions by a decade or so. The towel boy could do as much as he's doing.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-21-2013, 12:14 AM
Of course ATX is the only person to vote for Keenum. He thinks VY is better lol.

Corrosion
10-21-2013, 12:18 AM
Offensive line is a complete joke, and ultimately that goes back to Kubiak and that joker Rick Smith.

Kubiak logic: Play empty sets when it is obvious Kansas City is blitzing.

That same type of play resulted in a blitz beater earlier when Posey took a quick slant 40 yards ....

eriadoc
10-21-2013, 12:19 AM
Both options are crap. This game came down to 3rd downs on both sides of the ball. The defense stiffened in the 2nd half, but still gave up three long drives and couldn't get off the field on 3rd down and put the offense back out there. On offense, they converted 3rd downs early, but failed to do it in the 2nd half. It's combination of OL, QB, no running game, and no one getting open on those blitzes. You saw AJ get open on a hot read in the first half, but no one did that in the 2nd. A lot of the team failures that have been there all along showed up today, in part because the QB play didn't overshadow them so much. All 53 of them have work to do.

Corrosion
10-21-2013, 12:24 AM
Both options are crap. This game came down to 3rd downs on both sides of the ball. The defense stiffened in the 2nd half, but still gave up three long drives and couldn't get off the field on 3rd down and put the offense back out there. On offense, they converted 3rd downs early, but failed to do it in the 2nd half. It's combination of OL, QB, no running game, and no one getting open on those blitzes. You saw AJ get open on a hot read in the first half, but no one did that in the 2nd. A lot of the team failures that have been there all along showed up today, in part because the QB play didn't overshadow them so much. All 53 of them have work to do.

I agree .... I thought the coaches called a pretty solid game and had an excellent gameplan in place for Keenum. Then you take away the running game , playing from behind against a very good defense .... You get what we saw at the end of the game.


I'd like to throw a big heap of the blame on the coverage teams. They allowed a 57-yard kickoff return and a 26-yard punt return ....

steelbtexan
10-21-2013, 12:29 AM
Until Coach Joe is fired I'm going to blame losses on Gary.

To win most games you've got to win 2 out of 3 phases of a game. Coach Joe spots the other team the St's phase of the game every week. That means the Texans have to win on offense/defense every week. They aren't good enough on offense to win that phase of the game consistently, which explains why the Texans are 2-5.

I learned the 3 phases of the game concept listening to Bud Grant and Jimmy Johnson.

DocBar
10-21-2013, 12:32 AM
I agree .... I thought the coaches called a pretty solid game and had an excellent gameplan in place for Keenum. Then you take away the running game , playing from behind against a very good defense .... You get what we saw at the end of the game.


I'd like to throw a big heap of the blame on the coverage teams. They allowed a 57-yard kickoff return and a 26-yard punt return ....That would be true for the last 12 years. For the life of me I can't figure out why Marciano is still on the Texans coaching staff, in any capacity.

DocBar
10-21-2013, 12:35 AM
Until Coach Joe is fired I'm going to blame losses on Gary.

To win most games you've got to win 2 out of 3 phases of a game. Coach Joe spots the other team the St's phase of the game every week. That means the Texans have to win on offense/defense every week. They aren't good enough on offense to win that phase of the game consistently, which explains why the Texans are 2-5.
I learned the 3 phases of the game concept listening to Bud Grant and Jimmy Johnson. Are you suggesting that the Texans D is playing stellar football? The defense has been as big a problem as any other during this losing streak. Losing Cushing will only make it worse.

Mari-OWNED!
10-21-2013, 12:35 AM
Keenum would probably be near the bottom on the list of people I blame for the loss.

O-line and defense would be at the top...

steelbtexan
10-21-2013, 12:44 AM
Are you suggesting that the Texans D is playing stellar football? The defense has been as big a problem as any other during this losing streak. Losing Cushing will only make it worse.

San Diego- They played better than the S.D. defense did
Houston > Tack defense
Houston = or > than Ravens defense
Houston > Seahawk defense
Houston < SF defense
Houston < Rams defense. Although a ST's fumble/Int TD's certianly didn't help
Houston = K.C. Defense minus Cushing.

So overall I would say the Texans defense has held up their end of the bargain. How many games have the ST's/Offense outplayed the opposing ST's/Offense this yr?

Agreed, I'm afraid that the defense will turn into the end of last yrs defense without Cushing. Mitchell just isn't good enough to hold up against double teams against the run.

Norg
10-21-2013, 01:12 AM
I blame Keenum he didn't score enough points to win the game he didn't go through his reeds on a lot of plays


I noticed during the 4th quarter when they were blitzing u gotta scramble and get the ball out of your hands fast

DocBar
10-21-2013, 01:23 AM
San Diego- They played better than the S.D. defense did
Houston > Tack defense
Houston = or > than Ravens defense
Houston > Seahawk defense
Houston < SF defense
Houston < Rams defense. Although a ST's fumble/Int TD's certianly didn't help
Houston = K.C. Defense minus Cushing.

So overall I would say the Texans defense has held up their end of the bargain. How many games have the ST's/Offense outplayed the opposing ST's/Offense this yr?

Agreed, I'm afraid that the defense will turn into the end of last yrs defense without Cushing. Mitchell just isn't good enough to hold up against double teams against the run.Put down the crack pipe, hand. 2-5 suggests you are terribly wrong. PF/PA tell much more than YPG on a stat line. Get off the old NFL stats line :koolaid: and get with the program on much more advanced stats. Those show the Texans for what they are: ****ty on defense. Especially that scoring part that really matters.

steelbtexan
10-21-2013, 02:24 AM
Put down the crack pipe, hand. 2-5 suggests you are terribly wrong. PF/PA tell much more than YPG on a stat line. Get off the old NFL stats line :koolaid: and get with the program on much more advanced stats. Those show the Texans for what they are: ****ty on defense. Especially that scoring part that really matters.

Well I'm not sure what the PF/PA is nor did I state ypg in my post. But I will say PF/PA are scewed when you consider a pick 6 is now referred to as Schaub. How many Ints did Schaub set up other teams for easy scores in addition to his 4 game pick 6 streak?

How many scores have been set up by poor ST's play, or directly given up a TD by the ST's? Not saying the defense is perfect but they are the least of this teams problems.

ajohnson80
10-21-2013, 04:24 AM
really the blame was they couldn't run the ball anymore and everyoned was gettin f'd up :lion:

EllisUnit
10-21-2013, 04:30 AM
In reality i blame Kubiak for the Loss, the Pistol is ok to run every now and then, but it does not play to our strengths plus it puts the RB even further behind the LOS, and that doesnt help especially when tate is all you have.

Keenum can work out of center, he did it all pre season and looked fine. I think Kubiak may have been trying to play to Keenums strengths to much that he took away from what we do well.

Will say it didnt help we had no healthy RBs, were Missing O.D and we have Derek Letembye over there on the right side of the line, still though Kubiak went a little overboard trying to make this offense like the UH offense, when i think Keenum can run what we usually run and be just fine.

leebigeztx
10-21-2013, 06:12 AM
Even though the score doesn't indicate it,but the defense is bad again. I mean ninja,mitchell,reed,mayes,sharpton,mccain are killing the team. There is a reason besides talent why hali and houston can get pressure from the outside. Poe,devito,and jackson,but mostly poe controls the middles which means the qb can't step up. So now the olbs got a 2 way go no matter how mobile the qb is. Of course the texans missed it again with john jenkins,hankins,williams, and a slew of other big nts sitting there. Hell, kwame geathers who backed up jenkins at georgia went undrafted but is playing well. If you get bigger on the line,then the lbs can just scrape and clean up plays vs having to always get of full blocks and make plays.

cuppacoffee
10-21-2013, 09:48 AM
Are you suggesting that the Texans D is playing stellar football? The defense has been as big a problem as any other during this losing streak. Losing Cushing will only make it worse.



Yep ^ What he said.

Nothing wrong with giving up 90+ yard drives in multiple games? :sarcasm:

When is the last time we stopped a third and fifteen + ?


:coffee:

Mr teX
10-21-2013, 09:57 AM
Yep ^ What he said.

Nothing wrong with giving up 90+ yard drives in multiple games? :sarcasm:

When is the last time we stopped a third and fifteen + ?


:coffee:

The other thing people aren't considering is that we haven't even played a great offensive team yet....the best offense we've played this year has been SF and they haven't been as explosive this year as they were last year.

Corrosion
10-21-2013, 10:02 AM
Yep ^ What he said.

Nothing wrong with giving up 90+ yard drives in multiple games? :sarcasm:

When is the last time we stopped a third and fifteen + ?


:coffee:

FFS how do you give up a 3rd and 21 .... when you have the defense dialed up to stop the play they run?!?

Dread-Head
10-21-2013, 10:05 AM
I thought the team played better overall than they had been playing. My standards are low for now. I am upset we lost, but pleased with a lot of what I saw.

Agreed.

b0ng
10-21-2013, 10:09 AM
Not voting, there are many more factors on the Texans for this loss than just Keenum/Oline. One of which shouldn't even be on there, you might as well make a thread saying "the oline deserves the blame for the loss".

HOU-TEX
10-21-2013, 10:13 AM
Everyone.

I continue to wonder if the QB in Kubiaks scheme is even allowed to read if there's a blitz or not. I mean, when there's 4 guys standing over your G and T....you might see a blitz. No adjustments, no calls on the oline, just run the play as Kubiak calls

Newton stinks, but he ran his man out the back end on the sack/fumble. Keenum needed to get rid of the ball

In the end, I'm saddened by the fact we'll be seeing status quo until the end of next year.

cbs1507
10-21-2013, 10:23 AM
Gary Kubiak.
Gary Kubiak
-never adjusted to the constant blitzing by the defense. No screen pass, no short hot routes, no draw plays, and totally went away from our regular play calling. Those were not the same plays that schaub was using.

-not activating cierre woods

-conservative play calling was evident throughout the game. The baffling conservative call right before the half, running then suddenly throwing. Mind boggling.

Defense

-Joe Mays and Ed Reed is killing us. Ed Reed missing tackles, penalties, joe mays just looks lost out there.

-couldnt stop the chiefs even though they were on 3rd and long. No inside presence. It was never addressed in the draft. Instead they burn picks on two outside linebackers that we didnt need. We needed ILBs and DT help but was never addressed.

Special teams

-what is it gonna take to fire Joe Marciano? Horrible coverage.

To your first point hot reads are on the QB. Case's inexperienced shined on those blitzes where he failed to make his hot reads (because he had hot reads). Yeah those were not the same play Schaub were running, but last time I checked Schaub wasn't under center. I like the adjustment made for the first time starter (ie pistol formation shotgun spread formations etc).

I agree not activating Cierre Woods was a bad decision. Especially considering he had knowledge of a "minor" issue with Foster's hamstring earlier in the week.

I'll agree Kubiak was definitely conservative at times, most notably at the end of the 1st half (bad clock management there. we should have called the timeout immediately when Ben Tate had a good run on the 1st play and attempted to get in FG at least.) Also, I believe he should have handle the goalline situation different.

Defense
You missed one. Brice McCain was teriible in the slot today. He gave up the most plays on 3rd down (especially on those underneath crossing). However, he did make a play at the end on 3rd down.

Defense was bad in the first half, but they did turn it around in the second half. They made plays. They gave us opportunities to win the game, so we can't put too much blame on them other than slow start.

ST
Yeah pour ST sucks.

cbs1507
10-21-2013, 10:34 AM
why was cierre woods not activated?

we had the ball in the 1 yard line and had to use our full back to score. Horrible coaching decisions is killing this team.

We did QB sneak on 1st down (which I agreed with). Should have done QB sneak again, or a PA bootleg (to run it in using Keenum's mobility)>

cbs1507
10-21-2013, 10:37 AM
Everyone.

I continue to wonder if the QB in Kubiaks scheme is even allowed to read if there's a blitz or not. I mean, when there's 4 guys standing over your G and T....you might see a blitz. No adjustments, no calls on the oline, just run the play as Kubiak calls

Newton stinks, but he ran his man out the back end on the sack/fumble. Keenum needed to get rid of the ball

In the end, I'm saddened by the fact we'll be seeing status quo until the end of next year.

There are hot reads what do you mean? The QB's got to recognize the blitz and get the ball out ASAP. Chalk it up to inexperience, he'll learn. He (Keeneum) even said himself he was confused with all the different blitzes they sent.

edwardc5637
10-21-2013, 10:38 AM
There is one person to blame that Kubiak poor play calling and bad moves.

HOU-TEX
10-21-2013, 10:39 AM
There are hot reads what do you mean? The QB's got to recognize the blitz and get the ball out ASAP. Chalk it up to inexperience, he'll learn. He (Keeneum) even said himself he was confused with all the different blitzes they sent.

That was my point. I was being sarcastic

cbs1507
10-21-2013, 10:50 AM
In reality i blame Kubiak for the Loss, the Pistol is ok to run every now and then, but it does not play to our strengths plus it puts the RB even further behind the LOS, and that doesnt help especially when tate is all you have.

Keenum can work out of center, he did it all pre season and looked fine. I think Kubiak may have been trying to play to Keenums strengths to much that he took away from what we do well.

Will say it didnt help we had no healthy RBs, were Missing O.D and we have Derek Letembye over there on the right side of the line, still though Kubiak went a little overboard trying to make this offense like the UH offense, when i think Keenum can run what we usually run and be just fine.

I don't think the formations is what cost us this game. I do blame Kubiak for poor clock management at the end of first half and poor play calling on the goal line situation where we settled for FG. But at the end of the day we had 4 possessions in the 4th quarter and ALL of the ended in SACKS. QB's gotta get rid of the ball point blank. If Case Keenum couldn't recognize the blitzes out of shotgun, what makes you think he's gonna recognize then any better under center?

76Texan
10-21-2013, 10:59 AM
Everyone.

I continue to wonder if the QB in Kubiaks scheme is even allowed to read if there's a blitz or not. I mean, when there's 4 guys standing over your G and T....you might see a blitz. No adjustments, no calls on the oline, just run the play as Kubiak calls

Newton stinks, but he ran his man out the back end on the sack/fumble. Keenum needed to get rid of the ball

In the end, I'm saddened by the fact we'll be seeing status quo until the end of next year.

Keenum tried to, Hou-Tex.
Unfortunately, D. Brown didn't allow it to happen.
Near the 2-sec mark, Keenum wanted to step up in the pocket in anticipation of either one of three routes (Graham, Jean, or Tate), but Brown got beat to the inside - I don't know if Brown expected Wade Smith to move back together with the entire O-line or not.
Keenum knew that if he stepped up, he would step right into the pass rush so he took off right away right at the 2-sec mark (he was out of the pocket before the 3-sec mark.)

Keenum never had a chance to throw the ball away.
If he stayed in the pocket and even attempted to throw the ball, the RDE would have been right on top on him, or at least had a hand on the ball (which is a chance for the ball to be batted around in the air, something nobody wants.)

If he tried to throw the ball away at any time when he tried to scramble out of the pocket, D Johnson would have gotten to the ball just the same - maybe even sooner.

If that play took another half a second or even a quarter of a second, then I would put it on Case (for not being able to get rid of the ball.)
None of the routes was designed to be open in less than 2 seconds.

IMHO, Case made the correct decision there.

ljhog
10-21-2013, 11:14 AM
Why we lost:
Couldn't run the ball effectively. Couldn't stop the run.
Gave up 5 sacks. Got 1 sack.

cstyle42
10-21-2013, 11:25 AM
Keenum is definitely the best quarterback on the team and for this current team. The o line will be better against other teams that are not as great at blitzing as Kansas City. Still need to have Keenum at qb to help the offense extend the plays and the defense get enough rest.

kingtexan
10-21-2013, 11:31 AM
Where is the Kubiak option?

Exactly ...