PDA

View Full Version : This is just weird..


DX-TEX
10-18-2013, 08:45 PM
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/mcclain/article/Jones-certain-Texans-Keenum-possesses-it-factor-4905819.php?t=09ad29a86ecc308649

Jones, the head coach at SMU, has impressive credentials, and I'm going to touch on them for those of you not familiar with his background because it pertains to Texans quarterback Case Keenum.

Jones was a backup quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons before embarking on a college and NFL coaching career. He was the head coach at the University of Hawaii before SMU.

Jones' jobs in the NFL included being the head coach of the Falcons and San Diego Chargers.

In May, I was visiting with Jones in the Dallas area. I asked him about Matt Schaub. Before responding to my Schaub question, Jones said, "Let me tell you about Case Keenum."

Jones scouted Keenum every season when he played for the Cougars. Jones figures he watched every play of Keenum's college career. Here's some of what Jones said that night.

"I'm going to make a prediction," Jones said. "When Case gets to training camp, you're going to see a different quarterback."

Different from what?

"Different from the quarterback he was last year on the practice squad," Jones said. "During training camp, he's going to show so much improvement you'll hear the coaches, especially (Gary) Kubiak, talking about how much he improved.

"Why? Because he had a season to learn the offense and let the coaches and players get to know him."

Yeah, well, so what? Keenum was an undrafted rookie free agent stuck in the third-team role behind Schaub and T.J. Yates, who won a division title and playoff game as a rookie.

'Fire burns in his belly'

But Jones went on.

"In preseason, Case is going to play so well, everybody will talk about how much better he's gotten, and he'll play so well he'll beat out (Yates) for the backup job," Jones said. "And let me tell you, if Schaub gets hurt, it won't surprise me a bit if it's Keenum - not Yates - that plays."

At that point, I suggested we put the cork back in the bottle, but Jones had piqued my interest.

I asked him why he was so high on Keenum that he'd make such an outlandish prediction?

"Because he's got that 'it' factor," Jones said. "He's a dynamic leader and a fierce competitor. His coaches and teammates love him and respect the hell out of him. And he makes great decisions with the ball. He doesn't make the same mistake twice."

OK, but those are intangibles. Keenum didn't even get drafted. Thirty-two teams, including the Texans, passed him up. Scouting reports said he was too short, and he played in a system that helped bloat his statistics.

Jones grinned and said, "And that's another reason I'm so impressed with him. He's such a competitor - that fire burns in his belly - that he's going to be determined to prove everybody wrong when he gets a chance.

"Hey, let me tell you something else: He's got a real good arm, and he's very athletic. He can get away from the rush. He can run when he needs to. You watch how quick he gets outside on the (bootleg). The ball comes out quick. And he's very accurate.


McClain is talking about a talk with Jones in May of this year. MAY!

Straight up X files s**t right here. The truth is out there...:tinfoil::texflag:

Vance87
10-18-2013, 08:54 PM
But Keenum didn't beat out Yates for the backup job...;)

kingtexan
10-18-2013, 08:55 PM
Anyone who watched Case play at UoH should have thought he could have a chance to be the real deal.

DX-TEX
10-18-2013, 08:57 PM
But Keenum didn't beat out Yates for the backup job...;)

Yeah but EVERYTHING else was correct including Keenum jumping in to start over Yates if Schaub went down. Scary stuff

utahmark
10-18-2013, 08:59 PM
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/mcclain/article/Jones-certain-Texans-Keenum-possesses-it-factor-4905819.php?t=09ad29a86ecc308649





McClain is talking about a talk with Jones in May of this year. MAY!

Straight up X files s**t right here. The truth is out there...:tinfoil::texflag:

You guys are getting me hyped for this game. I blame everyone on this board if Case isn't a hall of famer. It's on you Texanstalk.

macho grande
10-18-2013, 09:10 PM
You guys are getting me hyped for this game. I blame everyone on this board if Case isn't a hall of famer. It's on you Texanstalk.

This!! I can't wait. I'd lost interest in watching same ol schaub. I haven't been this intrigued since last year's divisional game vs the Pats. Hopefully there's a different result this week :-)

aussie_texan
10-18-2013, 09:22 PM
You guys are getting me hyped for this game. I blame everyone on this board if Case isn't a hall of famer. It's on you Texanstalk.

:koolaid:

:texflag:

CASE "THE FACE" KEENUM!!!! get around him :fans:




:homer:

TejasTom
10-18-2013, 09:58 PM
But Keenum didn't beat out Yates for the backup job...;)

I think under any other coach, he would have.

DX-TEX
10-18-2013, 10:03 PM
everything he said was true including outplaying TJ Yates in the preseason. I mean it was close but not really. Offense flowed when Case was there.

The aura was strong.

Aura levels approaching 85.7%.

I think that's when Dre was first infected by it. Only reason why Yates was named #2 was because of Kubiak's seniority status philosophy.

Maybe Case is just gassy

Hervoyel
10-18-2013, 10:10 PM
But Keenum didn't beat out Yates for the backup job...;)


Sure he did. Gary just didn't have it in his heart to take the #2 spot away from Yates for what he felt was a statistical "tie" between the two. He left TJ his #2 spot and put Keenum on the roster. The first chance he gets to start one of them he goes with Keenum and has Yates back him up?

I think Kubiak knew since the preseason he'd probably end up doing this if Matt went down. While Schaub was still in the mix there was just no reason to make the change on paper.

EllisUnit
10-18-2013, 10:20 PM
I think under any other coach, he would have.

agree we all know Kubes loyalty problems, i am shocked he did this. This is an obvious save your job and the season move. Glad he made it though.

Vance87
10-18-2013, 10:28 PM
Man you fanboys are easy to set off...

Premier
10-18-2013, 10:45 PM
This!! I can't wait. I'd lost interest in watching same ol schaub. I haven't been this intrigued since last year's divisional game vs the Pats. Hopefully there's a different result this week :-)

this is where i was at... this is the first time since the letterman jacket game that ive checked an opposing teams message board.. i came into this season defeated, knowing schaub is a loser who doesnt put this team over the top. idk what to expect with keenum but im so excited, jessie spano.. all the high praise from everyone has me with high expectations, its probably foolish but heres to hope..

Carr Bombed
10-18-2013, 10:49 PM
After thinking about it further, here is the real reason why I think Keenum wasn't named the #2 QB coming out of camp and I can't really blame Kubiak for it.


He didn't want to put Keenum #2 behind a mentally soft and struggling (coming off last season) QB. He wanted to give Schaub every chance to succeed and rebound back to being a solid/above solid starting QB. If Keenum would've been #2 out of the gate, every time Schaub would've thrown a ball over his receiver's head, at his receiver's feet, or thrown a horrible pick at home, the boo birds would've came out calling for Case. Yates being listed at #2 was the protection buffer that Kubiak needed to give Schaub a legit chance to rebound without being hounded by fans in the crowd who would of wanted to see the hometown kid.

It didn't work though... Schaub played like **** still and still looked mentally broken throughout the early part of the season, then when he put in Yates for mop up duty, he fell on his face too. Against the Rams (which if Schaub would've been hurt or not) I believe Schaub was put on notice he was playing for his job. He played decent and completed some passes and avoided the pick.. then bam, he goes down and the crowd cheers. Kubiak throws Yates out there and he plays like **** again. I believe it was right then and there that Kubiak decided he was going to roll with Keenum.

This whole "Yates and Keenum will be splitting carries and then I'll name this week's starter" was probably just lip service to the media. It only took a couple of practices for him to come up and name his starter and I believe Keenum will remain his starter for the rest of the year. The fans have been done with Schaub and I think Kubiak is now too. His inability to stay healthy, inability to make chicken salad when things break down, and his habit of making horrible mistakes at the worst times have cost Kubiak dearly at key points in his Texans' coaching history. I think this 2-4 start (granted it wasn't always Schaub's fault, but Kubiak runs his offense and QBs.. only thing he can truly control) was the straw that broke Kubiak's back.

Outside of injury or absolute horrible play by Keenum, I honestly don't see Schaub returning as the starter this year for the Texans. I don't even think Keenum has to play out of this world to keep the job. I believe even if Keenum has growing pains and struggles at times, Kubiak will still stick with him as long as he's making enough positive plays along the way.

2012Champs
10-18-2013, 10:50 PM
I think under any other coach, he would have.

Under any other coach he wouldn't have been signed at all. Amazing the Case crew seems to overlook that what talking about Gary and how he handles things

EllisUnit
10-18-2013, 10:51 PM
Under any other coach he wouldn't have been signed at all. Amazing the Case crew seems to overlook that what talking about Gary and how he handles things

you dont know that for sure, he is a home town kid. You dont know what any other coach would of done.

2012Champs
10-18-2013, 10:57 PM
you dont know that for sure, he is a home town kid. You dont know what any other coach would of done.

What other team offered him something?


Gary gave him a chance in more than one way despite what you may think

Carr Bombed
10-18-2013, 10:58 PM
Under any other coach he wouldn't have been signed at all. Amazing the Case crew seems to overlook that what talking about Gary and how he handles things

:rolleyes:

They overlook that for a reason... because it flat out is NOT true.


Case would've been invited to a camp if he didn't sign here. LMAO, seriously just because the guy was a UDFA does not mean that nobody had a eye on him, they simply didn't want to spend a draft on him (like Gary), but he would've been offered a try out by one of the other 31 teams.

Texan4Ever
10-18-2013, 11:04 PM
I wish Matt Schaub and the rest of the Texans got as much support as Case is getting right now. :(

2012Champs
10-18-2013, 11:04 PM
:rolleyes:

They overlook that for a reason... because it flat out is NOT true.


Case would've been invited to a camp if he didn't sign here. LMAO, seriously just because the guy was a UDFA does not mean that nobody had a eye on him, they simply didn't want to spend a draft on him (like Gary), but he would've been offered a try out by one of the other 31 teams.


Yeah the teams were forming a line for the texans to skip on him

infantrycak
10-18-2013, 11:06 PM
:rolleyes:

They overlook that for a reason... because it flat out is NOT true.


Case would've been invited to a camp if he didn't sign here. LMAO, seriously just because the guy was a UDFA does not mean that nobody had a eye on him, they simply didn't want to spend a draft on him (like Gary), but he would've been offered a try out by one of the other 31 teams.

You need a mirror for your rolleyes. Keenam was undrafted. After that all 32 teams had an opportunity to pick up a phone and sign him to their team. So far as we know only Houston made that call. Then once he was waived in cut downs any team could claim him - none did. Then once he cleared waivers any team could have signed him to their practice squad. Then throughout the whole season any team could have grabbed him off the practice squad. All of that without spending a draft pick.

Carr Bombed
10-18-2013, 11:12 PM
I wish Matt Schaub and the rest of the Texans got as much support as Case is getting right now. :(

Matt Schaub had PLENTY of support, after 7 years and only one playoff win, not to mention a second half collapse last year and a horrible start this season where you're setting NFL records for pick 6's the support runs dry.

And Texan fans support PLENTY of Texan players.

What you just posted has nothing to do with "support", it's called coddling. Schaub doesn't need to be coddled. I'll remember the good times, his professionalism, but it's time to move on. It's just time.

Texan in Japan
10-18-2013, 11:12 PM
After thinking about it further, here is the real reason why I think Keenum wasn't named the #2 QB coming out of camp and I can't really blame Kubiak for it.


He didn't want to put Keenum #2 behind a mentally soft and struggling (coming off last season) QB. He wanted to give Schaub every chance to succeed and rebound back to being a solid/above solid starting QB. If Keenum would've been #2 out of the gate, every time Schaub would've thrown a ball over his receiver's head, at his receiver's feet, or thrown a horrible pick at home, the boo birds would've came out calling for Case. Yates being listed at #2 was the protection buffer that Kubiak needed to give Schaub a legit chance to rebound without being hounded by fans in the crowd who would of wanted to see the hometown kid.

It didn't work though... Schaub played like **** still and still looked mentally broken throughout the early part of the season, then when he put in Yates for mop up duty, he fell on his face too. Against the Rams (which if Schaub would've been hurt or not) I believe Schaub was put on notice he was playing for his job. He played decent and completed some passes and avoided the pick.. then bam, he goes down and the crowd cheers. Kubiak throws Yates out there and he plays like **** again. I believe it was right then and there that Kubiak decided he was going to roll with Keenum.

This whole "Yates and Keenum will be splitting carries and then I'll name this week's starter" was probably just lip service to the media. It only took a couple of practices for him to come up and name his starter and I believe Keenum will remain his starter for the rest of the year. The fans have been done with Schaub and I think Kubiak is now too. His inability to stay healthy, inability to make chicken salad when things break down, and his habit of making horrible mistakes at the worst times have cost Kubiak dearly at key points in his Texans' coaching history. I think this 2-4 start (granted it wasn't always Schaub's fault, but Kubiak runs his offense and QBs.. only thing he can truly control) was the straw that broke Kubiak's back.

Outside of injury or absolute horrible play by Keenum, I honestly don't see Schaub returning as the starter this year for the Texans. I don't even think Keenum has to play out of this world to keep the job. I believe even if Keenum has growing pains and struggles at times, Kubiak will still stick with him as long as he's making enough positive plays along the way.

I think you're analysis is spot on. Kubiak was a back-up QB and understands what makes QBs tick. He didn't want to destroy Schaub's psyche...Schaub did that himself. Yates was a comfortable buffer, because he is Matt-lite. I'm praying Case plays great, but even if he doesn't I think he'll give us the best chance to win this weekend. I do believe we will all be entertained.

badboy
10-18-2013, 11:22 PM
I think Case Keenum quickly convinced Kubiak he was the future. I think MS if he recovered from the mental meltdown from 2012 would be QB through 2014 whether he won SB or not. If he did, fans would be ok with Keenum starting 2015 knowing they were coming off a SB season in either '13 or '14. MS will be 34 going into 2015. I think Keenum was to be groomed next two years allowing Yates to get good enough to trade at some point. Not only did MS mess up the plan but so did Yates who had basically one game to shine but he drizzled instead. No one is calling for Yates to get more than one game. The hopefully positive thing will be if Keenum is ready now.

I think McNair has given Kubes rope because either MS recovered and team had a good season or McNair has a chance to be sitting on a goal mine with a home boy bring all sorts of goodies to McNair's pocket. Anyone think Case if successful could sell airtime or PSLs and boxes? What about national attention?

Carr Bombed
10-18-2013, 11:22 PM
You need a mirror for your rolleyes. Keenum was undrafted. After that all 32 teams had an opportunity to pick up a phone and sign him to their team. So far as we know only Houston made that call. Then once he was waived in cut downs any team could claim him - none did. Then once he cleared waivers any team could have signed him to their practice squad. Then throughout the whole season any team could have grabbed him off the practice squad. All of that without spending a draft pick.

Wrong. I don't need a mirror. :rolleyes: (see.. no mirror)

1.) Yes, he was undrafted... so what?
2.) Yes, the other 31 teams had a opportunity to pick up a phone and sign him to their team... who says someone didn't want to or wouldn't? So what's your point? I'm pretty sure when the team down the road called he stopped even fielding calls from other teams. I mean I'm sure the convienence of getting a opportunity in your own backyard was a high selling point.
3.) Case Keenum was part of the final cut down in camp, so why would another team claim a developmental project QB off waivers when the QB didn't go through camp with them, get to learn their playbook, and they already spent their own camp teaching their own signal callers? What you just described is actually pretty normal.
4.) Grabbing him off our practice squad.. see point 3.)

None of what you typed did anything to dispell the notion that if we didn't give Case a opportunity to come to camp that someone else wouldn't. This league is littered with teams signing Ufa's like Case to come to camp every year.. but somehow Gary was Case's "Obi One Ken obi" and his only hope. Again :rolleyes:

2012Champs
10-18-2013, 11:28 PM
Wrong. I don't need a mirror. :rolleyes: (see.. no mirror)

1.) Yes, he was undrafted... so what?
2.) Yes, all 31 teams had a opportunity to pick up a phone and sign him to their team... who says someone didn't? So what's your point? I'm pretty sure when the team down the road called he stopped even fielding calls from other teams. I mean I'm sure the convienence of getting a opportunity in your own backyard was a high selling point.
3.) Case Keenum was part of the final cut down in camp, so why the hell would another team claim a developmental project QB off waivers when the QB didn't go through camp with them, get to learn their playbook, and they already spent their own camp teaching their own signal callers? What you just described is actually pretty normal.
4.) Grabbing him off our practice squad.. see point 3.)

None of what you typed did anything to dispell the notion that if we didn't give Case a opportunity to come to camp that someone else wouldn't. This league is littered with teams signing Ufa's like Case to come to camp every year.. but somehow Gary was Case's "Obi One Ken obi" and his only hope. Again :rolleyes:


Go ahead and ignore reality, it must be fun to live in fantasy land.

Carr Bombed
10-18-2013, 11:31 PM
Yeah the teams were forming a line for the texans to skip on him

No they weren't

LOL, but that sure as hell would've been more likely than acting like the guy wouldn't have even been invited to a NFL camp if we didn't offer him a invite.

Tailgate
10-18-2013, 11:41 PM
Have you people learned nothing from being fans for all of these years? lol TAKE IT EASY on your expectactions

Carr Bombed
10-18-2013, 11:47 PM
Have you people learned nothing from being fans for all of these years? lol TAKE IT EASY on your expectations

I don't really have expectations on how well Keenum will play, I just hope for the best.

The only thing I expect to happen is Keenum will get his shot.. if he doesn't run with it Houston will be drafting a QB very high next season. However regardless of what Keenum does or doesn't do, Schaub is done here and Yates won't be a starter.. reason why we'll be drafting a QB very high if Keenum doesn't capitalize on his chance.

MEGA SWATT
10-18-2013, 11:57 PM
But Keenum didn't beat out Yates for the backup job...;)

Only bc Kubes is so loyal that he had to go with Yates since he was the QB that lead team to their first playoff game victory and had seniority.

Thx for posting op

Vance87
10-19-2013, 12:03 AM
Only bc Kubes is so loyal that he had to go with Yates since he was the QB that lead team to their first playoff game victory and had seniority.

Thx for posting op

You think I don't know that sh!t? Jesus.

MEGA SWATT
10-19-2013, 12:10 AM
I wish Matt Schaub and the rest of the Texans got as much support as Case is getting right now. :(

Seriously MS is pathetic - just stop it. Cheering the injury was gross, but MS crapped in the bed repeatedly and we need to put him behind us.

MEGA SWATT
10-19-2013, 12:11 AM
You think I don't know that sh!t? Jesus.

:firehair:Relax, it's going to be alright. It should be quite obvious that I thought you might not know that:firehair::firehair::wow:

Jesus back at you:handshake:

ChampionTexan
10-19-2013, 12:11 AM
You need a mirror for your rolleyes. Keenam was undrafted. After that all 32 teams had an opportunity to pick up a phone and sign him to their team. So far as we know only Houston made that call. Then once he was waived in cut downs any team could claim him - none did. Then once he cleared waivers any team could have signed him to their practice squad. Then throughout the whole season any team could have grabbed him off the practice squad. All of that without spending a draft pick.

When you consider the sheer amount of UDFA's that end up on 90 man training camp rosters, combined with Chase's collegiate career, it's pretty unlikely that there weren't other teams wanting to bring him in as a UDFA had the Texans not made Case the offer - but as you said, it's something we'll likely never know with certainty.

What we do know is that The Texans and Gary Kubiak made the decision to offer him a free agent contract, they made the decision to give Case some playing time in his first preseason, they made the decision to put him on the practice squad, and keep him there his entire first season. They made the decision to sign him again for the 2013 90 man roster, the decision to let him compete for the backup job, the decision to include him on this season's 53 man roster, and the decision to start him this coming Sunday.

For all those questioning how the decision to start Case was made, think what you want about Kubiak, believe what you want about where McNair fits into this whole scenario, and base that on whatever psychic powers you may think you have when it comes to this stuff, but understand, that at pretty much any point from March of 2012 until today, if Gary Kubiak didn't want Case Keenum associated with the Houston Texans, it's pretty certain he wouldn't be.

MEGA SWATT
10-19-2013, 12:16 AM
You need a mirror for your rolleyes. Keenam was undrafted. After that all 32 teams had an opportunity to pick up a phone and sign him to their team. So far as we know only Houston made that call. Then once he was waived in cut downs any team could claim him - none did. Then once he cleared waivers any team could have signed him to their practice squad. Then throughout the whole season any team could have grabbed him off the practice squad. All of that without spending a draft pick.

Awesome post:brando:

Carr Bombed
10-19-2013, 12:37 AM
if Gary Kubiak didn't want Case Keenum associated with the Houston Texans, it's pretty certain he wouldn't be.

The same could be said for a lot players on this roster.

I'm not trying to discredit what Gary Kubiak has done for Case as every QB that has played under him has raved about him and what he's done for their career.. From Steve Young to Jake Plummer to even Sage Rosenfels.. they all speak highly of him till this day. However a lot of what you described, Keenum has also earned, the only thing that was given to him was a invite to camp. He earned a spot on the PS, then earned a roster spot when a lot of people here thought we were just going to sneak him on the PS again, now he's earned the opportunity to start. I credit Kubiak for rewarding him those opportunities, but Keenum still had to earn them.. they weren't given.

My problem is with those acting like Keenum would've had no chance of even stepping on the confines of a NFL practice field if it wasn't for Gary Kubiak and that's flat out ridiculous and asinine, of coarse he would have. There is a lot less accomplished players that get burn every year. We saw one here in Alex Brink who was actually drafted in the 7th round.

For people who even follow the NFL draft process, it's even impossible to say that nobody would've been willing to spend a late round flier on him. 7th round picks are nothing, but glorified UDFAs. A team could of told him, if you're there we'll take you and then said team saw a guy that they had a 5th to 6th round grade on fall and and that player was there when their 7th round pick came up. We hear about these type of stories all the time. This is why I put a lot of value difference between a late round pick and UDFA. We should of all learned this lesson with Arian Foster or how Jefferson outplayed every one of the OLBers we drafted this past draft. There's a multiple of ways to get in this league.

I highly doubt if Houston didn't sign Keenum coming out of college that he never would've got a look at in somebody's camp.

thunderkyss
10-19-2013, 01:04 AM
I think under any other coach, he would have.

agree we all know Kubes loyalty problems, i am shocked he did this. This is an obvious save your job and the season move. Glad he made it though.

Under any other coach he wouldn't have been signed at all. Amazing the Case crew seems to overlook that what talking about Gary and how he handles things

you dont know that for sure, he is a home town kid. You dont know what any other coach would of done.

But you do?

The point is Gary signed him as an UDFA, Gary signed him to the 53, Gary is giving him an opportunity to start this Sunday..... but that's not good enough? Some imaginary coach would have started Case from day one right? Probably drafted him with the #1 overall pick.

Kubiak should be getting Kudos, not criticism.

Insideop
10-19-2013, 01:18 AM
everything he said was true including outplaying TJ Yates in the preseason. I mean it was close but not really. Offense flowed when Case was there.

The aura was strong.

Aura levels approaching 85.7%.

I think that's when Dre was first infected by it. Only reason why Yates was named #2 was because of Kubiak's seniority status philosophy.

Yes, the Force is strong with this one! :hothboy:

Carr Bombed
10-19-2013, 01:22 AM
But you do?

The point is Gary signed him as an UDFA, Gary signed him to the 53, Gary is giving him an opportunity to start this Sunday..... but that's not good enough? Some imaginary coach would have started Case from day one right? Probably drafted him with the #1 overall pick.

Kubiak should be getting Kudos, not criticism.

Is this is directed at me?, if it is you missed what this whole debate is even about or what I'm talking about, because I haven't been very critical of Kubiak.

I'm criticizing some of the posts that you quoted which say Keenum never would've been signed anywhere if Kubiak didn't give him a shot. Which is again ludicrous.

Gary/Smith (why we keep leaving this man's name out I don't understand.. he is the G.M.)

Gary and Smith just didn't "sign him to the 53 man roster spot".. He earned his way to a 53 man roster. I have no doubts they wanted him on the team, but his play made it impossible to try to get him through waivers again. Give the kid some credit, he earned his way here. Just like he earned his way to a PS spot his rookie season. He was given a "looksee" and has worked towards all the doors that are now opening for him.. whether he is able to step through that door is a different debate that isn't going to take place until after weeks of play.

As far as coaches starting him from day one and drafting him in the first round. People need to get off that too, Chances are this kid is not going to succeed, chances are he's going to fall flat on his face and not be our franchise QB so people really need to stop with the Drew Brees talk. However do I hope for a level of success anywhere near that :) you bet your ass I do.

Still though the odds are severely stacked against him, but they've always been and he's made it this far.. I'll just take a wait and see approach and hope he keeps overcoming the odds, he's pretty much Rocky Balboa at this point.. and that was a fantastic movie. :) Who doesn't love the underdog?

Vance87
10-19-2013, 01:32 AM
:firehair:Relax, it's going to be alright. It should be quite obvious that I thought you might not know that:firehair::firehair::wow:

Jesus back at you:handshake:

Dude, I'm like the smartest guy you will ever meet. I'm not that joking.

thunderkyss
10-19-2013, 01:52 AM
Is this is directed at me?

I didn't quote you.

Carr Bombed
10-19-2013, 02:00 AM
I didn't quote you.

I never said you did, but you did quote people who believe if the Texans never gave him a shot he would of sat on his couch and would've never even sniffed a NFL training camp.. do you believe that? Or are you living in the same fantasy land that I'm living in? lol

This is a QB driven league, if Keenum didn't get a look here, he would've somewhere else. Just by dumb luck, this might of turned out to be the absolute perfect situation for him and it looks like it is, but that doesn't mean he would of not had the chance to be a camp arm/UDFA and flame out else where or exceed all odds and be pushing a starter.

thunderkyss
10-19-2013, 02:10 AM
I never said you did, but you did quote people who believe if the Texans never gave him a shot he would of sat on his couch and would've never even sniffed a NFL training camp.. do you believe that? Or are you living in the same fantasy land that I'm living in? lol

This is a QB driven league, if Keenum didn't get a look here, he would've somewhere else.

My post was more about the "you don't know what another coach would do." comment when they started the whole, "another coach would have..." debate.

I'm sure Case is pleased with the opportunity he got from the coach he got it from & being able to start for the team he will be starting for... Unless he grew up a Packer fan, which I guess is possible.

EVOLVIST
10-19-2013, 02:14 AM
You need a mirror for your rolleyes. Keenam was undrafted. After that all 32 teams had an opportunity to pick up a phone and sign him to their team. So far as we know only Houston made that call. Then once he was waived in cut downs any team could claim him - none did. Then once he cleared waivers any team could have signed him to their practice squad. Then throughout the whole season any team could have grabbed him off the practice squad. All of that without spending a draft pick.

Guys, this is getting a little out of hand, because I'm not seeing anyone really making a solid counter argument to what Cak posted. Cak is right! In a QB starved league, right, we don't know if anyone other team made Case offers after the draft, but also yes, Case could have been picked up anytime by any team while on the practice squad, but he wasn't.

The truth is, there are very few coaches, experts, scouts and talking heads who gave two sh!ts about Case Keenum...and they still don't. Who? John Gruden? Gary Kubiak? Rick Smith? June Jones? Kevin Sumlin?

The FACT is, if Case Keenum turns out to be a Cinderella story, like most of us hope he does, then the above mentioned reasons makes Keenum's story more compelling than a bunch of Texans nerds (me included) revising the past so we can laugh at the rest of the NFL, barking, "I told ya so."

Carr Bombed
10-19-2013, 04:12 AM
Guys, this is getting a little out of hand, because I'm not seeing anyone really making a solid counter argument to what Cak posted. Cak is right! In a QB starved league, right, we don't know if anyone other team made Case offers after the draft, but also yes, Case could have been picked up anytime by any team while on the practice squad, but he wasn't.

The truth is, there are very few coaches, experts, scouts and talking heads who gave two sh!ts about Case Keenum...and they still don't. Who? John Gruden? Gary Kubiak? Rick Smith? June Jones? Kevin Sumlin?

The FACT is, if Case Keenum turns out to be a Cinderella story, like most of us hope he does, then the above mentioned reasons makes Keenum's story more compelling than a bunch of Texans nerds (me included) revising the past so we can laugh at the rest of the NFL, barking, "I told ya so."

wow

Sorry, but there is a counter argument (there's been plenty of them, quote one) and CAK isn't right.

Here we go again

"Cak is right!" In a QB starved league, right, we don't know if anyone other team made Case offers after the draft".

Answer..

Problem is, we don't know if any other team made Case offers after the draft.. so how the hell is "CAK is right? I at least have MANY examples of QBs who came come close to the type of production Keenum put up and even listed QBs like Case who where deemed "system QBs getting a shot" year in and year outunlike CAK

Thorn
10-19-2013, 04:19 AM
Jesus Christ who cares? History is what it is. Case starts Sunday. End of story.

The rest is all coming out of the south end of a north bound bull. Sunday we shall see what we shall see.

Grams
10-19-2013, 06:15 AM
I don't care how he got here, what college he played for.

The only thing that matters is that he is our starting QB this Sunday.

And I hope he plays really really well!!!!!!!

Rey
10-19-2013, 08:10 AM
Ok, let's suppose no one else wanted case...now what...

No one else picked up foster off the practice squad. And picking up a RB is a lot easier than taking a qb that you'll have to place on your active roster.

Let's say that the rest of the nfl thought keenum was the worst qb ever. Ok, now what?

kingtexan
10-19-2013, 08:11 AM
I wish Matt Schaub and the rest of the Texans got as much support as Case is getting right now. :(

I wish people wouldn't post ignorant comments.

FirstTexansFan
10-19-2013, 10:25 AM
How ever this came about, I'm with Thorn.... He starts Sunday, and I at this point in time wish to remain optimistic that our world as fans of the Texans becomes much more pleasant! GO TEXANS!!:fans:

michaelm
10-19-2013, 11:50 AM
I obviously don't know if Case drew any interest from other teams, but my OPINION is that he PROBABLY would've been on a roster somewhere as a camp body if nothing else.

eriadoc
10-19-2013, 11:54 AM
Ok, let's suppose no one else wanted case...now what...

No one else picked up foster off the practice squad. And picking up a RB is a lot easier than taking a qb that you'll have to place on your active roster.

Let's say that the rest of the nfl thought keenum was the worst qb ever. Ok, now what?

Seems like to me the rest of the NFL is pretty fkn stupid then, and probably not someone upon whom you'd want to prop your argument. The whole "there's a reason he wasn't drafted" argument is lame and always has been. Yeah, there's a reason - it's because NFL people suck at evaluating people sometimes. That's how you get guys like Lawrence Phillips drafted and Arian Foster not drafted.

Sometimes the answer is pretty damn simple. So next time one of you (not you, Rey) throws your lot in with them, just remember, you don't know **** and neither do they until the player has actually played, whoever it is.

Nitrofish
10-19-2013, 12:23 PM
I wish Matt Schaub and the rest of the Texans got as much support as Case is getting right now. :(

Don't worry, they will turn on Case eventually too, then move onto their next campaign. Sometimes I think they are not so much Texans fans, but rather fans of their own opinions.

Have you people learned nothing from being fans for all of these years? lol TAKE IT EASY on your expectactions

This^^^^

I wish people wouldn't post ignorant comments.

Then stop posting comments.

thunderkyss
10-19-2013, 01:00 PM
Yeah, there's a reason - it's because NFL people suck at evaluating people sometimes. That's how you get guys like Lawrence Phillips drafted and Arian Foster not drafted.



I'm sure that's a big part of it. Most of the time, we're focusing on "talent" & we all know it takes a lot more than talent to make it in this league.

Another thing is that people change. Arian Foster is a totally different person now than he was when he first came out of college. & if what June Jones said about Case is true, Case is a totally different player than he was coming out of college.

Jones said Case's arm is stronger now than it was coming out of college. He said he's working better under center than he did coming out of college (there was no film or anything to give anyone a good feeling that he would). And of course he knows our play-book better than he did when he first came out of college.

No question Keenum earned everything he got, but he's also been in a place that has rewarded him every step of the way.

Lucky
10-19-2013, 05:55 PM
Jesus Christ who cares? History is what it is. Case starts Sunday. End of story.
Or just the beginning of the next chapter...
Don't worry, they will turn on Case eventually too...
If he doesn't produce, then yes. It's about results. If Schaub were producing, no one would be posting about replacing him with Keenum.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-19-2013, 10:39 PM
When Schaub is sucking, people are going to call him out on it. Same goes for the defense like in our last game against the Rams. It's no different than when fans singled out Jacoby Jones against the Ravens in the playoffs or Joe Marciano for however long now. If someone on the team isn't pulling their weight, the people on this board will call them out on it. That doesn't make them fairweather. I'd argue it makes them passionate fans and this message board gives them a platform to voice their frustration. It's hard for me to call out people on this message board that have been here for so long, with little success to boast about, as being fairweather.

Thorn
10-19-2013, 10:42 PM
When Schaub is sucking, people are going to call him out on it. Same goes for the defense like in our last game against the Rams. It's no different than when fans singled out Jacoby Jones against the Ravens in the playoffs or Joe Marciano for however long now. If someone on the team isn't pulling their weight, the people on this board will call them out on it. That doesn't make them fairweather. I'd argue it makes them passionate fans and this message board gives them a platform to voice their frustration. It's hard for me to call out people on this message board that have been here for so long, with little success to boast about, as being fairweather.

Yep. And seeing as how everyone sees something different through their own eyes, it's unlikely the bickering will ever cease. Nor should it. If everyone here all said the same thing all the time it would be boring as hell.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-19-2013, 10:44 PM
Yep. And seeing as how everyone sees something different through their own eyes, it's unlikely the bickering will ever cease. Nor should it. If everyone here all said the same thing all the time it would be boring as hell.


Couldn't agree more lol

Carr Bombed
10-19-2013, 10:48 PM
Yep. And seeing as how everyone sees something different through their own eyes, it's unlikely the bickering will ever cease. Nor should it. If everyone here all said the same thing all the time it would be boring as hell.

LOL, goes back to the saying.. "everyone has a ***hole, some are just stinkier tham others" huh?

Thorn
10-19-2013, 10:50 PM
LOL, goes back to the saying.. "everyone has a ***hole, some are just stinkier tham others" huh?

It's a tough job being an a$$hole, but it's something I do well. :lol:

Texan4Ever
10-20-2013, 11:21 AM
Matt Schaub had PLENTY of support, after 7 years and only one playoff win, not to mention a second half collapse last year and a horrible start this season where you're setting NFL records for pick 6's the support runs dry.

And Texan fans support PLENTY of Texan players.

What you just posted has nothing to do with "support", it's called coddling. Schaub doesn't need to be coddled. I'll remember the good times, his professionalism, but it's time to move on. It's just time.

Fair enough. I'm in denial because I don't want a new HC and or a ne QB and have to wait a few more years to go back to the way we were in 2012.

thunderkyss
10-20-2013, 11:40 AM
Fair enough. I'm in denial because I don't want a new HC and or a ne QB and have to wait a few more years to go back to the way we were in 2012.

If we're right about the quality of the talent on this team, we won't have to wait a few years.

I know people look at how long it took us to get to where we were, but you have to take into account where we started from. 4 seasons after the Texans took the field, we should have had at least one winning season, but we didn't. Capers & Casserly screwed up in every way imaginable. They ruined the best QB prospect to come out of college since Phillip Rivers. Capers ignored his strength as a defensive coordinator & failed to build a truly competitive defense even with a defensive mind like Vic Fangio (49ers current DC). They created an environment of entitlement & set the bar so low that players were just collecting a paycheck. They pretty much wasted all our draft picks save 1, and jacked up the salary cap overpaying over-the-hill talent.

Kubiak came in 2006 & made us a winning franchise in 4 seasons despite all the crap Casserly/Capers left. Not just the football team, but the organization top to bottom is light years ahead of where we were in 2005.

Imagine we fired Kubiak in 2009 (like many wanted) the new coach would have been expected to get us into the play-offs in 2 years. Kubiak did that. Despite a shtload of injuries. Back to back division titles, a 10 win season & a 12 win season & the 12 win team wasn't as good as the 10 win team.

2013 started poorly. Definitely presented some challenges. We'll see how it turns out. But if we were to get a new coach & QB for the 2014 season, the division should be in reach, AFC Championship game should be in reach... we shouldn't have to wait two or three years.

If the talent is as good as we think it is.

Texecutioner
10-20-2013, 01:27 PM
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/mcclain/article/Jones-certain-Texans-Keenum-possesses-it-factor-4905819.php?t=09ad29a86ecc308649





McClain is talking about a talk with Jones in May of this year. MAY!

Straight up X files s**t right here. The truth is out there...:tinfoil::texflag:

Straight up X-Files?? Lol!

That wasn't some stretch at all if you were paying any attention. A lot of people had been talking Keenum up since last season, and there was never any unimaginable scenario that he'd at least be able to potentially beat out Yates for the backup position. Yates has never done anything impressive. A lot of people have been high on Keenum's potential for a while now. He wasn't the only one saying stuff like that at all.

Texecutioner
10-20-2013, 01:40 PM
You need a mirror for your rolleyes. Keenam was undrafted. After that all 32 teams had an opportunity to pick up a phone and sign him to their team. So far as we know only Houston made that call. Then once he was waived in cut downs any team could claim him - none did. Then once he cleared waivers any team could have signed him to their practice squad. Then throughout the whole season any team could have grabbed him off the practice squad. All of that without spending a draft pick.

No, CB is right. You're making a complete assumption that Keenum wouldn't have been invited to another camp out of 31 other teams. It is a lot more likely that he would have been. Keenum wasn't some complete no name nobody. Teams bring in several QB's to their camps almost every season. Please do not try and turn this into some idea that Kubiak's offensive genius ways were the only reason why Case is even existent in the NFL especially after Kubiak outright refused to pull Schaub after last season's failures and his pick 6 records that he now holds. Schaub had to get hurt for another QB to get in there and he was still rolling with Yates. Hell, the entire freaking team gave up on Gary Kubiak and let the Rams roll over them they were so disgusted. Keenum is in there now which has an entire freaking city excited now just to see what an undrafted 3rd string kid can do. That is how far this team sunk under Gary's leadership once again and mainly because of Gary's refusal to put Case Keenum in there which is why a lot of people believe that Gary Kubiak was forced to throw Keenum in there from orders through Bob or Rick Smith. It isn't fact, but more then likely true considering the history.

Texan4Ever
10-21-2013, 10:47 PM
why would you think you have to wait a few more years?

NFL is the sport of quick turnarounds. If your talent is real, you dont go backwards with a better coach and a competent QB.

Just look at new orleans, chicago, the chiefs alone this year.

You can actually better your team and your record with a new coach and QB.


I understand but what if we can't find the right HC or get someone who wants to take the team in a radically different direction (e.g. change offensive schemes, defensive schemes, bring in his own coordinators)?

Right now I can only think of Lovie Smith as a decent option for HC...not sure of others.