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View Full Version : Who do you want to start at QB this week?


Hottoddie
10-16-2013, 11:46 AM
I think I know the answer to this, but let's see what the majority wants.

Thorn
10-16-2013, 11:47 AM
Are you going to put up a poll?

In any case, my answer is Keenum.

Dread-Head
10-16-2013, 11:49 AM
Well my choice is obvious. Bill! Someone sober him up and get his ass to practice.

HTown2ATX
10-16-2013, 11:51 AM
Keenum

Hottoddie
10-16-2013, 11:51 AM
Are you going to put up a poll?

In any case, my answer is Keenum.

Sorry I'm a one finger at a time kind of typer. :D

Carr Bombed
10-16-2013, 11:53 AM
Keenum.. just for the simple fact that we already know what we have in Yates and Schaub and the question of whether or not Keenum can be the guy needs to be answered before the offseason.

thunderkyss
10-16-2013, 11:58 AM
Mistakes are killing us. The team we're playing feasts on their opponents mistakes. We need to clean up the mistakes, bottom line. There were a bunch of mistakes in that little time that Tj was in the game. There will be a bunch of mistakes if Keenum starts. There's no way anyone can argue that Tj/Case will not make mistakes.

Schaub played a mistake free game against the Rams.

I know the odds of Schaub playing another mistake free game is slim. But I think it's better than the odds that Tj/Case will make mistakes.

Start Schaub.

DBCooper
10-16-2013, 12:00 PM
Keenum.


Yates is awful.

Schaub is the best QB on this team, but Kubiak has been figured out by the NFL.

Maybe with Case at QB it will force Gary to do something wild, like different.

G27RR
10-16-2013, 12:01 PM
Give Schaub an extra week to heal and try to make a run after the bye. Don't want to see him rush back and then be out for the season. Start Keenum to see what we have there.

Carr Bombed
10-16-2013, 12:02 PM
Mistakes are killing us. The team we're playing feasts on their opponents mistakes. We need to clean up the mistakes, bottom line. There were a bunch of mistakes in that little time that Tj was in the game. There will be a bunch of mistakes if Keenum starts. There's no way anyone can argue that Tj/Case will not make mistakes.

Schaub played a mistake free game against the Rams.

I know the odds of Schaub playing another mistake free game is slim. But I think it's better than the odds that Tj/Case will make mistakes.

Start Schaub.

Schaub was making mistakes when he was playing on two feet (there's a reason people cheered when he exited the game). If he's not healthy.. no thanks, especially against the preasure he'll be facing in K.C.

disaacks3
10-16-2013, 12:04 PM
Schaub played a mistake free game against the Rams. He had no interceptions. He was far from mistake-free. His line wasn't helping him much, but he made some very poor reads and still locked-on to receivers short of the sticks when better options were available.

When he's "on" Matt is a top-5 QB. He's been "on" exactly one half this year.

Blake
10-16-2013, 12:05 PM
Schaub. @KC is not a good game to start Keenum out with. Wait until after the bye.

thunderkyss
10-16-2013, 12:13 PM
He had no interceptions. He was far from mistake-free. His line wasn't helping him much, but he made some very poor reads and still locked-on to receivers short of the sticks when better options were available.

When he's "on" Matt is a top-5 QB. He's been "on" exactly one half this year.

Agreed. 100%

In context of my previous post, I was referring specifically to turnovers.

2012Champs
10-16-2013, 12:15 PM
If Matt is ready he gets the ball

2012Champs
10-16-2013, 12:17 PM
He had no interceptions. He was far from mistake-free. His line wasn't helping him much, but he made some very poor reads and still locked-on to receivers short of the sticks when better options were available.

When he's "on" Matt is a top-5 QB. He's been "on" exactly one half this year.




Throwing short of the sticks is not just a function of your QB. The WR, the coverage, the play calls and a million other things go into it. FWIW watching the rest of the NFL it is common for targets to be short of the sticks

Scooter
10-16-2013, 12:38 PM
schaub's done, yates isnt a starter, and keenum has the biggest skillset of the group - he's the obvious answer to me. i've heard a lot of people saying wait until the bye in order to give keenum two weeks to prepare. i disagree with that. put him in this week, see exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are in a real game, and use those two weeks to build around what we see. it's going to be a tough game, away, and against a strong defense - i'd rather see keenum forced into that type of real world situation than trying to coddle him at home against a weak opponent like the jaguars.

DX-TEX
10-16-2013, 12:45 PM
I voted "other".

#FREEVY #JUSTWINZ #HOMETOWNBOY

disaacks3
10-16-2013, 12:48 PM
Throwing short of the sticks is not just a function of your QB. The WR, the coverage, the play calls and a million other things go into it. FWIW watching the rest of the NFL it is common for targets to be short of the sticks I'm fully aware of what goes into it. Matt made some bad reads. He missed wide open receivers and threw the ball away. Hells Bells, this doesn't seem to be news to anyone but you.

Playoffs
10-16-2013, 12:48 PM
Famous Jameis Winston. :truck:

kingtexan
10-16-2013, 12:51 PM
Anyone voting to start Schaub, please never ... ever ... watch football again.

Give the kid the ball, start Case.

HJam72
10-16-2013, 12:51 PM
Well my choice is obvious. Bill! Someone sober him up and get his ass to practice.

I'm pretty sure Bill throws more accurately when he is drunk. :fingergun:

thunderkyss
10-16-2013, 12:51 PM
schaub's done, yates isnt a starter, and keenum has the biggest skillset of the group - he's the obvious answer to me. i've heard a lot of people saying wait until the bye in order to give keenum two weeks to prepare. i disagree with that. put him in this week, see exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are in a real game, and use those two weeks to build around what we see. it's going to be a tough game, away, and against a strong defense - i'd rather see keenum forced into that type of real world situation than trying to coddle him at home against a weak opponent like the jaguars.

I really don't understand this argument. "See what he's got" It really doesn't matter what he's got if we're not winning. I think there's a very good chance that Kubiak is gone if we're not in the play-offs. He may be out, if we're one & done. If Kubiak is gone, we're drafting another QB & unless Keenum wins the Super Bowl, there will be plenty of stop gaps out there that would make more sense as our starting QB.

The only reason to start Keenum, imo, is if you truly believe he can save our season. With the talent on this team & if Keenum can be our Russell Wilson/Collin Kaepernick, we should still be in the AFC Championship game & imo, that's the only thing that should save Kubiak's job.

If I'm Kubiak & I believed that, there's no way anyone other than Keenum will start in KC. But I'm not going to throw Keenum out there in any situation just to see what he's got.

kingtexan
10-16-2013, 12:52 PM
I'm pretty sure Bill throws-up more accurately when he is drunk. :fingergun:
fify

TheIronDuke
10-16-2013, 12:52 PM
I vote that we just run the wildcat all game, it'd probably score as many points as we've been scoring offensively anyway and would cut the opponent's chances of scoring on a defensive play in the game from 75% to 25%.

EllisUnit
10-16-2013, 12:56 PM
schaub's done, yates isnt a starter, and keenum has the biggest skillset of the group - he's the obvious answer to me. i've heard a lot of people saying wait until the bye in order to give keenum two weeks to prepare. i disagree with that. put him in this week, see exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are in a real game, and use those two weeks to build around what we see. it's going to be a tough game, away, and against a strong defense - i'd rather see keenum forced into that type of real world situation than trying to coddle him at home against a weak opponent like the jaguars.

I agree 100 percent !!!

Dutchrudder
10-16-2013, 01:11 PM
Yates. Starting Keenum this week would be really bad for his potential. If Keenum is worth his salt, let him go against the Colts. The Chiefs would eat him up. They are the best defense in the AFC, cause the most turnovers, have the best pass rush, and allow the least points. Don't throw him out to the wolves only to be slaughtered.

Dread-Head
10-16-2013, 01:11 PM
I'm pretty sure Bill throws more accurately when he is drunk. :fingergun:

So he's like Peter Griffin with the piano? Damn it Bill. For God's sake someone give Bill a drink and get him to practice! Iesvs...I'm getting too old for this.

HOU-TEX
10-16-2013, 01:15 PM
Lechler

Mr teX
10-16-2013, 01:17 PM
Throwing short of the sticks is not just a function of your QB. The WR, the coverage, the play calls and a million other things go into it. FWIW watching the rest of the NFL it is common for targets to be short of the sticks

I pointed this is out weeks ago...it seems noone watches any other NFL games but the Texans.

cuppacoffee
10-16-2013, 01:20 PM
Kubiak.

Show us how to execute.

It's all "on him" anyway.

:coffee:

BullNation4Life
10-16-2013, 01:22 PM
DAMN IT! I hit the wrong button. I want to see what Keenum can do. If he does well, leave him in. If he sucks, well then we will at least know the Houston Texans do not have their QB for next year on this roster...

Scooter
10-16-2013, 01:40 PM
I really don't understand this argument. "See what he's got" It really doesn't matter what he's got if we're not winning. I think there's a very good chance that Kubiak is gone if we're not in the play-offs. He may be out, if we're one & done. If Kubiak is gone, we're drafting another QB & unless Keenum wins the Super Bowl, there will be plenty of stop gaps out there that would make more sense as our starting QB.

The only reason to start Keenum, imo, is if you truly believe he can save our season. With the talent on this team & if Keenum can be our Russell Wilson/Collin Kaepernick, we should still be in the AFC Championship game & imo, that's the only thing that should save Kubiak's job.

i think we're saying the same thing, i'm suggesting putting keenum in because he's our best chance to save the season. what i disagree with is those saying to wait until the bye week. a gimp schaub, a lame yates, or a green keenum - i think they're about equal going into kansas city. coming out of KC changes quite a bit if keenum is able to get that experience and the coaches get a better grasp of how to gameplan with keenum.

drs23
10-16-2013, 01:45 PM
keenum.. Just for the simple fact that we already know what we have in yates and schaub and the question of whether or not keenum can be the guy needs to be answered before the offseason.

^^this^^

JCTexan
10-16-2013, 02:19 PM
Keenum: I don't have a lot of confidence in Schaub right now and Yates looked like garbage against the Rams. For those saying give Keenum more time to prepare, he's had a year and a half to prepare to be the starter in this system. He's not going to pick up anymore of the playbook in the next week than he already knows.

thunderkyss
10-16-2013, 02:25 PM
i think we're saying the same thing, i'm suggesting putting keenum in because he's our best chance to save the season. what i disagree with is those saying to wait until the bye week. a gimp schaub, a lame yates, or a green keenum - i think they're about equal going into kansas city. coming out of KC changes quite a bit if keenum is able to get that experience and the coaches get a better grasp of how to gameplan with keenum.

If you think he's the best choice, that's fine I can get behind that. Like you said though, I don't understand waiting another week. We don't have another week. If we go down 2-5, it's over.

We're not going to the play offs. Kubiak won't be here next year, & that's another obstacle Case has got to overcome.

2012Champs
10-16-2013, 02:25 PM
Keenum: I don't have a lot of confidence in Schaub right now and Yates looked like garbage against the Rams. For those saying give Keenum more time to prepare, he's had a year and a half to prepare to be the starter in this system. He's not going to pick up anymore of the playbook in the next week than he already knows.



There is a difference between working all week or two weeks with the first team and not working with them at all. How much value you put on that meh its up to you

JCTexan
10-16-2013, 02:35 PM
If you think he's the best choice, that's fine I can get behind that. Like you said though, I don't understand waiting another week. We don't have another week. If we go down 2-5, it's over.

We're not going to the play offs. Kubiak won't be here next year, & that's another obstacle Case has got to overcome.

Agreed. Our season hangs in the balance this week. A win and we could only be 1 game behind the Colts, who have to play Denver this week, heading into our game with them.


There is a difference between working all week or two weeks with the first team and not working with them at all. How much value you put on that meh its up to you

Not enough value to go with Yates over Keenum this week when Yates hasn't played much with the first team this season either.

GuerillaBlack
10-16-2013, 02:40 PM
Keenum. Let's see what he can do, even if it is against the Chiefs in KC. It's not like Schaub (injured or not really) or Yates can do any better.

HouTx11
10-16-2013, 02:50 PM
It depends on the situation:

If Ed Reed plays start Keenum.

If Ed Reed doen't play and Schaub is healthy what the heck, start Schaub. We may barely win in OT, but at least it would go as a W.

Of all of those meaningless stats out there, perhaps the most interesting of them all is the fact that the Texans haven't won a game since Ed Reed took the field.

76Texan
10-16-2013, 02:56 PM
Keenum and Yates split time in practice.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/TJ-Yates-and-Case-Keenum-to-split-time-in-practice/f9fbbf8b-bcd5-453d-8d03-69cde1ebb831

Nitrofish
10-16-2013, 02:56 PM
It's simple. If Schaub is healthy enough to start it should be him. If not, then I would be happy to see Keenum get a shot. Like it or not, Schaub is the most experienced, and best QB on the team so for that reason you start Schaub if he is healthy.

I mean look at it this way. Even though most of you guys have written this season off, it is far from over.

The Colts lost to the Chargers so they did not extend their lead in the division. The lead remains 2 games. They face arguably the most high powered team in the league this week which by all appearances will be another loss, making it a 2 game slide for the Colts before the bye.

So if the Texans can somehow get their act together and beat the Chiefs (It could happen) that gives the Colts only a 1 game lead in the division leading up to the Colts in Houston after the bye. If the Texans can then win that game at home, they take first place in the division assuming the Titans do not win their next two games.

So with that in mind, do you play a 3rd string UDFA over a 10 year vet if he is healthy? Hell no you don't! And Kubiak won't if Schaub is healthy enough to go, but I think there is little chance Schaub will be healthy enough.

Forget the 4 pick 6's, and forget that you hate Schaub and blame everything including global warming on him. He gives the Texans their best chance to win, and wins are what they need right now, not QB tryouts.

Vinny
10-16-2013, 03:07 PM
First of all, I think its moronic to split the snaps. Pick a friggin' QB and give him ALL the snaps. Prepare ONE guy. Give him a fair shot, not the half the practice snaps Peyton Manning gets' kind of shot. I mean really...ugh. Why even throw a hurt Schaub vs this front 7 at their place? He's not limping enough? The Chiefs had 10 sacks last week.

HOU-TEX
10-16-2013, 03:12 PM
First of all, I think its moronic to split the snaps. Pick a friggin' QB and give him ALL the snaps. Prepare ONE guy. Give him a fair shot, not the half the practice snaps Peyton Manning gets' kind of shot. I mean really...ugh. Why even throw a hurt Schaub vs this front 7 at their place? He's not limping enough? The Chiefs had 10 sacks last week.

Good grief, me too! It's driving me nuts for some reason. It irked me as soon as he said it the other day. You have to have 1 of them 100% ready to go whether Schaub's ready or not.

I've always been neutral when it came to Kubiak discussions, but dadgum, he's pissin me off a lot this season.

Hottoddie
10-16-2013, 03:42 PM
Forget the 4 pick 6's, and forget that you hate Schaub and blame everything including global warming on him. He gives the Texans their best chance to win, and wins are what they need right now, not QB tryouts.

Given that we've lost 4 games in a row with Schaub as the starter, does that mean we're looking at a 2-14 season? If he's our best chance, we're in deep trouble. That argument is all the justification I need to start Keenum. If Keenum (or Yates) starts the next 4 games & we lose all of them, how does that hurt us more than the path we're currently heading down? My thinking is that with Keenum, we might surprise someone & win 1 or 2 of those games just because there isn't any tape on him yet. Either that, or it's just wishful thinking on my part. I'm just tired of losing during a season when everyone (outside of Houston) was annointing us a serious Superbowl contender. The excuses have to stop at some point.

Exascor
10-16-2013, 04:07 PM
If Schaub were completely healthy, I'd have a tough time choosing. I still hold out the slimmest hope that we can get into the playoffs. I still think a healthy Schaub gives us the best, most consistent chance at advancing. Unless he's completely broken mentally, hopefully he could revert back to early last season form and no telling how far this team could get. Honestly Schaub starting would have me feeling ho-hum until something great happened. I feel like he's done (mentally) and now that he's injured should be held out until the other 2 QBs prove much worse.

Yates doesn't "deserve" another chance. He's had one this year and completely blew it. He brings nothing new to the offense. I don't think players "want" to make plays for him.

But...Keenum would have me excited to watch from the beginning. He may make mistakes but if he's capable of making some great plays at the same time, I'm for it. I think the players can feel it too. He may not be the next Tom Brady or even Tony Romo but I'd give him a shot. Those saying to wait to start Keenum until the bye week...really? He's been preparing to play professionally for a year and a half. If he starts Sunday he'll have tons of reps with the first string. If he plays poorly in KC - big deal. They are undefeated and have a great defense. Maybe it would get him used to playing faster. Would Yates or Schaub have played better? Based on what exactly?

If he plays well and wins though...

Hervoyel
10-16-2013, 04:15 PM
First of all, I think its moronic to split the snaps. Pick a friggin' QB and give him ALL the snaps. Prepare ONE guy. Give him a fair shot, not the half the practice snaps Peyton Manning gets' kind of shot. I mean really...ugh. Why even throw a hurt Schaub vs this front 7 at their place? He's not limping enough? The Chiefs had 10 sacks last week.


Well, that's the kind of idiot we have running this circus. From the article stating that they were splitting reps

Kubiak said Keenum’’s mobility won’’t be a deciding factor against a Kansas City pass rush that racked up 10 sacks last week during a home victory against Oakland.

I'd love to know what the "deciding factor" will be. He thinks TJ moves well too. That's nice. Not really even close between the two but hey, Gary doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings so yes, they're both real mobile..... but that's not what we'll base any decision on. Who cares about mobility when we're looking at a defense like KC's right?

hradhak
10-16-2013, 04:29 PM
I am not sure why they need to split reps either seeing as how they are not experienced enough in the first place.

I wonder if Kubiak is holding info out to hinder KC's gameplanning. Doubt it though

HOU-TEX
10-16-2013, 04:30 PM
I have a feeling Schaub will start....and make the Statue of Liberty jealous

Nitrofish
10-16-2013, 04:35 PM
First of all, I think its moronic to split the snaps. Pick a friggin' QB and give him ALL the snaps. Prepare ONE guy. Give him a fair shot, not the half the practice snaps Peyton Manning gets' kind of shot. I mean really...ugh. Why even throw a hurt Schaub vs this front 7 at their place? He's not limping enough? The Chiefs had 10 sacks last week.

Agreed! Just PC nonsense. The waffling suggests he still wants to start Schaub IMO. Even more important especially if it is Keenum Kubiak plans to start facing that pass rush. Although even though I think the Texans line has been struggling, they are still better than the Raiders line. Don't think you will see 10 sacks against the Texans.

Two completely different game plans to prepare for depending on whether you start Yates or Keenum. Going to have to move Keenum around if he is starting. Not so much with Yates, or Schaub for that matter if the OL does their job.

Given that we've lost 4 games in a row with Schaub as the starter, does that mean we're looking at a 2-14 season? If he's our best chance, we're in deep trouble. That argument is all the justification I need to start Keenum. If Keenum (or Yates) starts the next 4 games & we lose all of them, how does that hurt us more than the path we're currently heading down? My thinking is that with Keenum, we might surprise someone & win 1 or 2 of those games just because there isn't any tape on him yet. Either that, or it's just wishful thinking on my part. I'm just tired of losing during a season when everyone (outside of Houston) was annointing us a serious Superbowl contender. The excuses have to stop at some point.

Ok wait.. so by that logic when Schaub won 2 in a row to start the season he should have won at least two more in a row, right? See what I did there? What you are saying is that because Schaub was the QB during a 4 game losing streak, that he will continue to lose. 2-14? Exaggerate much? How do you jump from 2-4 to 2-14?

How does it hurt more if we lose the next 4 with Yates or Keenum? Simple. Odds are Schaub would not lose another 4 in a row, that is just you and others being dramatic. History tells us Schaub can move the ball and win. The same cannot be said for Yates or Keenum, but especially Keenum who has no NFL history. He is a 3rd string UDFA for a reason. So extrapolating that the Texans will continue to lose unless we make a QB change is nonsense. Schaub has proven he can win. But the TEAM needs to play better, not just Schaub.

Yea sorry, but IMO it is wishful thinking on your part as well as others. None of us want to lose no matter what anyone outside of Houston is saying, but it happens. Stop believing the season is over for the Texans. It's not. If they can get back to winning like we all know they can (Yes even with Schaub at the helm) then they are only 2 games back of the division leader who will most likely lose to the Broncos this weekend. If the Colts lose and Texans win it changes things dramatically. We go into the bye only 1 game out of first place, and then the Texans face the division leader Colts after the bye in Reliant, and if they win that game, the Texans are in first place in the AFCS and 2-0 in the division.

It's understandable to lose faith after a 4 game slide, but Schaub was not the only player out there for those 4 games. The team as a whole played terribly in all phases of the game during that stretch, and even more so against the Rams. But there has to be a bottom, and I think that was it against the Rams.

It's perfect timing for the Texans to start playing good ball now, and peak at the right time this year instead of fast out of the gate, then fizzling at the end of the year. When the Texans are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, that is when you start experimenting, not until then unless forced to by injury to your starting QB.

Vinny
10-16-2013, 04:44 PM
Two completely different game plans to prepare for depending on whether you start Yates or Keenum. Going to have to move Keenum around if he is starting. Not so much with Yates, or Schaub for that matter if the OL does their job.

.Trust me, Chiefs aren't going to prepare different for Keenum. He's not RGIII or Michael Vick. There is ZERO tactical advantage for "making the Chiefs prepare for two QB's." Keenum's speed isn't going to eat them up and nobody is going to spy him. The Chiefs are going to prepare for the kubiak offense and won't give a rats booty about which back up quarterback is starting. All we are doing is limiting our starting quarterback's reps. Idiocy at its finest.

Hottoddie
10-16-2013, 05:27 PM
Agreed! Just PC nonsense. The waffling suggests he still wants to start Schaub IMO. Even more important especially if it is Keenum Kubiak plans to start facing that pass rush. Although even though I think the Texans line has been struggling, they are still better than the Raiders line. Don't think you will see 10 sacks against the Texans.

Two completely different game plans to prepare for depending on whether you start Yates or Keenum. Going to have to move Keenum around if he is starting. Not so much with Yates, or Schaub for that matter if the OL does their job.



Ok wait.. so by that logic when Schaub won 2 in a row to start the season he should have won at least two more in a row, right? See what I did there? What you are saying is that because Schaub was the QB during a 4 game losing streak, that he will continue to lose. 2-14? Exaggerate much? How do you jump from 2-4 to 2-14?

How does it hurt more if we lose the next 4 with Yates or Keenum? Simple. Odds are Schaub would not lose another 4 in a row, that is just you and others being dramatic. History tells us Schaub can move the ball and win. The same cannot be said for Yates or Keenum, but especially Keenum who has no NFL history. He is a 3rd string UDFA for a reason. So extrapolating that the Texans will continue to lose unless we make a QB change is nonsense. Schaub has proven he can win. But the TEAM needs to play better, not just Schaub.

Yea sorry, but IMO it is wishful thinking on your part as well as others. None of us want to lose no matter what anyone outside of Houston is saying, but it happens. Stop believing the season is over for the Texans. It's not. If they can get back to winning like we all know they can (Yes even with Schaub at the helm) then they are only 2 games back of the division leader who will most likely lose to the Broncos this weekend. If the Colts lose and Texans win it changes things dramatically. We go into the bye only 1 game out of first place, and then the Texans face the division leader Colts after the bye in Reliant, and if they win that game, the Texans are in first place in the AFCS and 2-0 in the division.

It's understandable to lose faith after a 4 game slide, but Schaub was not the only player out there for those 4 games. The team as a whole played terribly in all phases of the game during that stretch, and even more so against the Rams. But there has to be a bottom, and I think that was it against the Rams.

It's perfect timing for the Texans to start playing good ball now, and peak at the right time this year instead of fast out of the gate, then fizzling at the end of the year. When the Texans are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, that is when you start experimenting, not until then unless forced to by injury to your starting QB.

I agree with you, but we're all making a lot of assumptions about the rest of this season. My extrapolation to a 2-14 season is based upon the 4 losses in a row, the furious second half rally we had to make in the SD game & finally the OT win in the Tennessee game when Schaub tried to give the game away with the 1st of his string of pick 6's. The way we've played this year, we could very easily be 0-6 at this point. We have yet to play like a serious Superbowl contender this year.

I also believe the O'Line is the major problem that needs to be fixed. If that's fixed, then Schaub would be the best choice at QB. But, the O'Line isn't going to be fixed right away & that's why I believe Keenum gives us a better fighting chance due to his mobility & lack of game film for other teams to prepare for him. He's got the skills, just not the experience.

Mr teX
10-16-2013, 05:45 PM
Well, that's the kind of idiot we have running this circus. From the article stating that they were splitting reps



I'd love to know what the "deciding factor" will be. He thinks TJ moves well too. That's nice. Not really even close between the two but hey, Gary doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings so yes, they're both real mobile..... but that's not what we'll base any decision on. Who cares about mobility when we're looking at a defense like KC's right?

Well considering KC racked up 10 sacks against a qb more mobile than anyone we have......i dont think it really does matter...yates, schaub...keenum...it doesnt matter, they're gonna be getting after whomever is back there.....especially with the turnstile newton not offering much resistance.

Grams
10-16-2013, 05:49 PM
Not sure why some of you guys want to start Matt even if he is healthy.
He is done. Put a fork in it. He has totally lost his confidence. He has been going downhill since the bye week last year. Except for the second half of the Chargers game.

He made no mistakes last game because he was afraid to throw the ball anywhere. He was slow and deliberate when he finally threw. He is done.

Yates is just Matt 2.0, a little faster a foot, a little stronger arm but the same.

Keenum needs to start so we can see if we need to draft a QB next draft.

Nitrofish
10-16-2013, 06:04 PM
I agree with you, but we're all making a lot of assumptions about the rest of this season. My extrapolation to a 2-14 season is based upon the 4 losses in a row, the furious second half rally we had to make in the SD game & finally the OT win in the Tennessee game when Schaub tried to give the game away with the 1st of his string of pick 6's. The way we've played this year, we could very easily be 0-6 at this point. We have yet to play like a serious Superbowl contender this year.

I also believe the O'Line is the major problem that needs to be fixed. If that's fixed, then Schaub would be the best choice at QB. But, the O'Line isn't going to be fixed right away & that's why I believe Keenum gives us a better fighting chance due to his mobility & lack of game film for other teams to prepare for him. He's got the skills, just not the experience.

How come when Andrew Luck, or Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady make a come back it is heralded as a good thing and a feather in their cap, but when Schaub does it, it is a bad thing? I agree that the Texans have not played like a serious Super Bowl contender, (except 2nd half of Chargers game, and 1st half of Seahawks game) but that is a good thing. It means they can only go up from here, that there is still hope they can finally play a full 60 minutes and put all 3 phases of the game together.

I was excited to see those come back wins, it showed the team had guts, and could overcome adversity with mental toughness and elite play. What if's work both ways bro. We could just as easily be 6-0, but we are not, so let's stop pretending the season is over because the Texans did not start fast.

The Texans could still win the division and make the playoffs. Just need to play like we know they can... as a team. Not one guy trying to do it all. Keenum running around trying to be the messiah will become a disaster. It's no secret what defenses will do against Keenum. They will blitz their asses off nearly every down, and if he does not make them pay, he will eventually make a rookie mistake and turn the ball over.

They will also disguise coverage, and it is just a matter of time before they force a turnover due to confusion by the young player. Now maybe Keenum is the next Drew Brees, but then again, Brees did not ball out on his first game, nor his first season. It took him time to gain the wisdom he needed to become elite.

Conventional wisdom says go with what you know so you can minimize the amount of mistakes your team makes, because turnovers kill you, which we have seen in the last 5 weeks. If you keep turning the ball over, I don't care who you have back there. You are going to lose. Keenum's skills are unproven against NFL talent, so saying he has the skills is just hype. The jump from College to the NFL is HUGE bro. Instead of one or two guys on a team that are fast, and good, every position is faster, bigger, stronger and better than anything he has every faced. The best of the best college players.

The OL has been struggling for a few years now, but Schaub has gotten by and won allot of games anyway. Historically Schaub has been excellent at protecting the football even with the poor line play more often than not, and those 4 games he played so badly and turned the ball over are just an anomaly, not a trend IMO. Keenum is not ready. I sure hope he proves me wrong if they start him. I will be cheering for him to succeed if he gets the start, unlike those who cheer for Schaub to do poorly so they can say "See I Told You So".

I'm not saying you are one of those people bro. Just saying they exist, and are more concerned with being right than watching the Texans win.

Kaiser Toro
10-16-2013, 06:06 PM
I see the Oline "issue" eerily similar to the Oline issue during the Carr ages. Give that Oline someone who can extend the play, and watch our Oline look like the best in the business again.

EllisUnit
10-16-2013, 06:08 PM
How come when Andrew Luck, or Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady make a come back it is heralded as a good thing and a feather in their cap, but when Schaub does it, it is a bad thing? I agree that the Texans have not played like a serious Super Bowl contender, (except 2nd half of Chargers game, and 1st half of Seahawks game) but that is a good thing. It means they can only go up from here, that there is still hope they can finally play a full 60 minutes and put all 3 phases of the game together.

I was excited to see those come back wins, it showed the team had guts, and could overcome adversity with mental toughness and elite play. What if's work both ways bro. We could just as easily be 6-0, but we are not, so let's stop pretending the season is over because the Texans did not start fast.

The Texans could still win the division and make the playoffs. Just need to play like we know they can... as a team. Not one guy trying to do it all. Keenum running around trying to be the messiah will become a disaster. It's no secret what defenses will do against Keenum. They will blitz their asses off nearly every down, and if he does not make them pay, he will eventually make a rookie mistake and turn the ball over.

They will also disguise coverage, and it is just a matter of time before they force a turnover due to confusion by the young player. Now maybe Keenum is the next Drew Brees, but then again, Brees did not ball out on his first game, nor his first season. It took him time to gain the wisdom he needed to become elite.

Conventional wisdom says go with what you know so you can minimize the amount of mistakes your team makes, because turnovers kill you, which we have seen in the last 5 weeks. If you keep turning the ball over, I don't care who you have back there. You are going to lose. Keenum's skills are unproven against NFL talent, so saying he has the skills is just hype. The jump from College to the NFL is HUGE bro. Instead of one or two guys on a team that are fast, and good, every position is faster, bigger, stronger and better than anything he has every faced. The best of the best college players.

The OL has been struggling for a few years now, but Schaub has gotten by and won allot of games anyway. Historically Schaub has been excellent at protecting the football even with the poor line play more often than not, and those 4 games he played so badly and turned the ball over are just an anomaly, not a trend IMO. Keenum is not ready. I sure hope he proves me wrong if they start him. I will be cheering for him to succeed if he gets the start, unlike those who cheer for Schaub to do poorly so they can say "See I Told You So".

I'm not saying you are one of those people bro. Just saying they exist, and are more concerned with being right than watching the Texans win.

How has that worked out for us so far ?

Nitrofish
10-16-2013, 06:11 PM
I see the Oline "issue" eerily similar to the Oline issue during the Carr ages. Give that Oline someone who can extend the play, and watch our Oline look like the best in the business again.

No question there. I agree with that. But how long can you count on that type of play before getting your QB killed? Especially a guy as small in stature as Keenum. He cannot absorb a bunch of punishment and survive, or thrive. Eventually it will cause his play to deteriorate if he must constantly be doing that. Wouldn't you agree?

Wilson is pretty mobile too, but I saw him get hammered a few times against the Texans and it only takes one of those to end his day, or even his career. I am sure Griffin thought he would just run all over the place too, but he learned he can't, not without paying a price, and he is bigger physically than Keenum.

Nitrofish
10-16-2013, 06:15 PM
How has that worked out for us so far ?

Well if you only want to be short sighted about 4 games then obviously not so well, but then again I am not one who says it was all Schaub's fault. Perhaps you are.

But historically it has worked out great for the Texans. Schaub turned them from a disastrous franchise into a back to back division winner that many were picking to go to the Super Bowl this year.

Can't keep saying 4 games represent then rest of the Texans season.

Kaiser Toro
10-16-2013, 06:21 PM
No question there. I agree with that. But how long can you count on that type of play before getting your QB killed? Especially a guy as small in stature as Keenum. He cannot absorb a bunch of punishment and survive, or thrive. Eventually it will cause his play to deteriorate if he must constantly be doing that. Wouldn't you agree?

Wilson is pretty mobile too, but I saw him get hammered a few times against the Texans and it only takes one of those to end his day, or even his career. I am sure Griffin thought he would just run all over the place too, but he learned he can't, not without paying a price, and he is bigger physically than Keenum.

I doubt he could absorb punishment outside of the pocket on a continued basis. However, every play he extends with a side-step, step-up or scramble will be incremental improvement.

Case has the potential to give us what we never get in this offense - goodness from a broken play. Granted, our team speed with our skill position players is lacking - but get them in open space on a broken play, and I am confident they can make someone miss.

darnbni99a
10-16-2013, 06:23 PM
Keenum.. just for the simple fact that we already know what we have in Yates and Schaub and the question of whether or not Keenum can be the guy needs to be answered before the offseason.

this.........

steds
10-16-2013, 06:30 PM
You know, having just read Gil Brandt suggesting we should trade for Rex Grossman (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000264417/article/hakeem-nicks-to-panthers-among-trades-that-would-make-sense), I'm suddenly quite happy with any of the three on the roster.

Nitrofish
10-16-2013, 06:34 PM
I doubt he could absorb punishment outside of the pocket on a continued basis. However, every play he extends with a side-step, step-up or scramble will be incremental improvement.

Case has the potential to give us what we never get in this offense - goodness from a broken play. Granted, our team speed with our skill position players is lacking - but get them in open space on a broken play, and I am confident they can make someone miss.

I agree, and think it could be very exciting to watch, but I can't help but wonder why you would aim for extending broken plays instead of having less broken plays?

Broken plays are going to happen. You cannot win every time, but as long as you protect the ball and live to fight another series it's all good. Often times those broken plays also become turnovers, and it certainly increases the chances of a turn over when you start running around playing playground style football. No?

I hate it that Kubiak is so conservative in his play calling, but when it comes to running around risking your starting QB's health for a few extra yards, or maybe a big play, or maybe a turnover, it's just not worth it IMO.

Pocket passers win super bowls. It's a fact. Yea, guys like Steve Young and others were mobile, and could run, but passed from the pocket to win it all. It's a more stable platform to throw the ball from, and therefore more accurate which means more chance of success.

The position was designed to operate behind huge linemen who get paid to keep the D Line from getting to the QB. Why can't we just ask them to do their jobs, or get someone who can? Again... Why try to extend broken plays rather than try to have fewer broken plays?

leebigeztx
10-16-2013, 06:46 PM
schaub's done, yates isnt a starter, and keenum has the biggest skillset of the group - he's the obvious answer to me. i've heard a lot of people saying wait until the bye in order to give keenum two weeks to prepare. i disagree with that. put him in this week, see exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are in a real game, and use those two weeks to build around what we see. it's going to be a tough game, away, and against a strong defense - i'd rather see keenum forced into that type of real world situation than trying to coddle him at home against a weak opponent like the jaguars.

What is his biggest skillset you speak of? I didn't see it at camp or anywhere else. Keenum is not a nfl caliber starter in this league. People can believe it till they blue in the face.Guy does not have a nfl arm.

GuerillaBlack
10-16-2013, 08:28 PM
What is his biggest skillset you speak of? I didn't see it at camp or anywhere else. Keenum is not a nfl caliber starter in this league. People can believe it till they blue in the face.Guy does not have a nfl arm.

You will be eating a buffet of crow sir.

Texanmike02
10-16-2013, 08:30 PM
Keenum.. just for the simple fact that we already know what we have in Yates and Schaub and the question of whether or not Keenum can be the guy needs to be answered before the offseason.

This.

Mike

legacy_gt
10-16-2013, 08:39 PM
the chiefs at home are the benchmark for being one of the best teams in the NFL defense wise.

if case can score and lead our team against this kind of environment, and play better than what we've seen, all of us can feel better about his future.

case is a gamer. he's a winner in high school, ncaa, and I want to see what he can do in the nfl. there's a reason why he's 3rd? yes, because kubiak is loyal to tj yates. otherwise, he'd be 2nd.

you need someone with a quick release, good footwork against an elite rush, read defenses that blitz, and can see open receivers. case has it, he just needs to show.

leebigeztx
10-16-2013, 09:03 PM
You will be eating a buffet of crow sir.

I will if I'm wrong,but I doubt I am. People wishing and hoping case is the next brady or kurt warner is beyond wishful thinking. I say it all the time,think players,not plays.

Carr Bombed
10-16-2013, 09:11 PM
Guy does not have a nfl arm.

I'll take a ex SB winning coach's opinion over random guy on the internet. :)


Does he have a cannon strapped to his right shoulder.. no, but he has more than enough arm strength to make the necessary throws to succeed. I'm more worried about his size and the ability to hold up health wise at this level, the arm.. not so much.

Scooter
10-16-2013, 10:13 PM
What is his biggest skillset you speak of? I didn't see it at camp or anywhere else. Keenum is not a nfl caliber starter in this league. People can believe it till they blue in the face.Guy does not have a nfl arm.

vision, quickly through multiple reads, mobility in the pocket, mobility outside the pocket, throwing on the run, deep ball accuracy, placement on shorter "lead" throws, pre-snap awareness, and if i may add it - "it". why is everyone so stuck on arm strength? most quarterbacks today arent known for their cannons, it's the head and feet that separate successful quarterbacks. besides, case was able to make the deep out in preseason, as well as drop some beautiful deep sideline throws.

Seegara
10-16-2013, 10:17 PM
Throwing short of the sticks is not just a function of your QB. The WR, the coverage, the play calls and a million other things go into it. FWIW watching the rest of the NFL it is common for targets to be short of the sticks
It's as common as it is stupid, if you mean setting up 1 yard short of the goal line. That's like running a pattern yard short of the marker on 3rd down. Usually it's the receiver's fault.

leebigeztx
10-16-2013, 10:34 PM
vision, quickly through multiple reads, mobility in the pocket, mobility outside the pocket, throwing on the run, deep ball accuracy, placement on shorter "lead" throws, pre-snap awareness, and if i may add it - "it". why is everyone so stuck on arm strength? most quarterbacks today arent known for their cannons, it's the head and feet that separate successful quarterbacks. besides, case was able to make the deep out in preseason, as well as drop some beautiful deep sideline throws.


Brandon weedon was the highest qb in preseason too along with sam bradford. When the walmart workers and bar tenders got cut,look at weedon and sam bradford. Look,I never said you had to have a cannon,but you do have to threaten blades of grass on the field. Case will limit the zones on the field to which you can throw just like schaub. There will be a lot of plays you just can't run because of his arm talent. I mean if you're hoping and wishing with a guy who wasn't even drafted in a qb starved league ,then be my guess. Like I said many times in other threads,I like the guy,but we've been down the road with these limited talent guys.

chicagotexan2
10-16-2013, 10:43 PM
What is his biggest skillset you speak of? I didn't see it at camp or anywhere else. Keenum is not a nfl caliber starter in this league. People can believe it till they blue in the face.Guy does not have a nfl arm.

I was all for Schaub going into the season. He has bombed and for whatever reason his arm strength has diminished just as decision making so I hope he's gone. If Yates was good enough he would have pushed for the starters job but he's not very good based on the Stl game. I only say keenum because he's the unknown. If he sucks too then the texans should move forward with someone in the draft. I hope keenum can be a productive QB or at least one that doesn't ph##k it up like Schaub but I doubt it but we know for sure schaun and Yates are not.

EVOLVIST
10-16-2013, 11:07 PM
Historically Schaub has been excellent at protecting the football even with the poor line play more often than not, and those 4 games he played so badly and turned the ball over are just an anomaly, not a trend IMO.

One time is an anomaly. Two times is a trend. Three times is a habit. Four times is just a fuking disaster.

You're right about one thing, though; at four losses the season is not over. Drop 7 and then we're probably talking. Start 7? Yeah, start #7. Schaub is not going to be healthy and Yates shat the bed. After the bye we'll see if the damage to Schaub's uppermost extremity is any better than his lower right one.

Until then Matt can keeping dancing with Anne's little sister, Lis.

legacy_gt
10-16-2013, 11:16 PM
Like I said many times in other threads,I like the guy,but we've been down the road with these limited talent guys.

yep, we're on that road right now with a terrible injured schaub and a 2 int TJ.

chicagotexan2
10-16-2013, 11:17 PM
You know, having just read Gil Brandt suggesting we should trade for Rex Grossman (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000264417/article/hakeem-nicks-to-panthers-among-trades-that-would-make-sense), I'm suddenly quite happy with any of the three on the roster.

Trade for Wrecks grossman? Just how deep is the bottom of this barrel?

EVOLVIST
10-16-2013, 11:26 PM
I mean if you're hoping and wishing with a guy who wasn't even drafted in a qb starved league ,then be my guess. Like I said many times in other threads,I like the guy,but we've been down the road with these limited talent guys.

Oh, I'm with you, bro. My cousin, he attended the University of Washington (true story) and they had this QB - a guy by the name of Star or Moon, or something like that. Anyway, this QB was a great college player, but I mean he just didn't get drafted. It just happens that way sometimes. Tough titty. At any rate, my cousin said that QB was playing ball up in Canada, so I guess things worked out for him in the end.

It makes me wonder, though - sometimes I have these crazy thoughts - how come we have all of these 1st, 2nd and 3rd round busts when all of the scouts and experts say this-and-that player is a "can't miss" prospect? It boggles the mind.

legacy_gt
10-16-2013, 11:31 PM
"If other teams had seen him work out for us, he would have been drafted," Kubiak said. "He was a sponge when I was telling him things. He picked them up right away." (in response to the tryouts with Texans after the combine).

MEGA SWATT
10-16-2013, 11:51 PM
"Relax, I got this"

http://667890af24dcf3c4ff75-3c5c7cf439b200c763d8c176f7f8a124.r52.cf2.rackcdn.c om/images/images/5222/photos/large/case_keenum.jpg_f731138a0053333d485d6e20b1843f0f?1 376232565


Concerns over his height?? He is 6'2" and Drew Brees is 6', so I'm not sure about the concern over his height that left him undrafted in 2012. What if he is our Drew Brees? Who says you have to be a lumbering, methodical, slow and goofy 6'5" QB in order to be "successful"? Last I checked, Arian Foster was undrafted and that created a sweet player with a chip on his shoulder that every team would kill for. Just saying..........

htownfan32
10-16-2013, 11:58 PM
"Relax, I got this"

http://667890af24dcf3c4ff75-3c5c7cf439b200c763d8c176f7f8a124.r52.cf2.rackcdn.c om/images/images/5222/photos/large/case_keenum.jpg_f731138a0053333d485d6e20b1843f0f?1 376232565


Concerns over his height?? He is 6'2" and Drew Brees is 6', so I'm not sure about the concern over his height that left him undrafted in 2012. What if he is our Drew Brees? Who says you have to be a lumbering, methodical, slow and goofy 6'5" QB in order to be "successful"? Last I checked, Arian Foster was undrafted and that created a sweet player with a chip on his shoulder that every team would kill for. Just saying..........

I hope as much as the next guy Case Keenum is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I don't think he is. I think it's just hometown love hyping up someone people desperately want to be a savior for this franchise just because he's an unknown quantity. If he is that guy at Arrowhead this Sunday, you bet I'll eat my plate of crow happily.

But the Foster comparison is a bad one. Foster would have been a draft pick if he hadn't stayed one more year at Tennessee. His last year screwed everything up for him.

Rey
10-17-2013, 12:03 AM
Matt is a bad qb at this point. He was an ok/good qb that looked better because of the offense. Now he's just bad.

Starting Matt would be the worst move we could make. It's time to move on.

legacy_gt
10-17-2013, 12:04 AM
I hope as much as the next guy Case Keenum is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I don't think he is. I think it's just hometown love hyping up someone people desperately want to be a savior for this franchise just because he's an unknown quantity. If he is that guy at Arrowhead this Sunday, you bet I'll eat my plate of crow happily.

But the Foster comparison is a bad one. Foster would have been a draft pick if he hadn't stayed one more year at Tennessee. His last year screwed everything up for him.

ok so you think keenum is overhyped despite the praise from the coaches and players.

you're kubiak, who do you start? a less than healthy schaub? TJ yates? or Keenum?

MEGA SWATT
10-17-2013, 12:15 AM
I hope as much as the next guy Case Keenum is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I don't think he is. I think it's just hometown love hyping up someone people desperately want to be a savior for this franchise just because he's an unknown quantity. If he is that guy at Arrowhead this Sunday, you bet I'll eat my plate of crow happily.

But the Foster comparison is a bad one. Foster would have been a draft pick if he hadn't stayed one more year at Tennessee. His last year screwed everything up for him.

He does not have to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. He just has to be better than MS and TY. That is not a hard thing to do. Anything above that is gravy. Hometown hype?? - I don't think so. That is simply a fact that does not enter the equation. He played for Houston, end of story there. The take away from his college play is that he was a bad azz.

Foster was undrafted. Keenum was undrafted. That is fact. You can't change facts, that is why they are called FACTS. Does not matter why they were undrafted.........they were simply..........you got it, undrafted.

Rey
10-17-2013, 12:17 AM
Mistakes are killing us. The team we're playing feasts on their opponents mistakes. We need to clean up the mistakes, bottom line. There were a bunch of mistakes in that little time that Tj was in the game. There will be a bunch of mistakes if Keenum starts. There's no way anyone can argue that Tj/Case will not make mistakes.

Schaub played a mistake free game against the Rams.

I know the odds of Schaub playing another mistake free game is slim. But I think it's better than the odds that Tj/Case will make mistakes.

Start Schaub.

Schaub played a mistake free game and put up a whopping 6 points.

You've been brainwashed. You might as well walk around with your hand in kubes pocket on the sideline during games. He sold y'all hook line and sinker with that junk.

Mistakes aren't that bad if you have the ability to make plays. Kubiak has convinced you guys otherwise with his upset stomach face. That's why trindon holiday was cut...because kubiak couldn't unclench. That's why he sticks with Schaub...because he's safe...

That's why Kevin Walter was the number two here for so long. Kubiak has sold you on his ****ty brand of football. So now we have safe guy Matt....that when he does make mistakes has no qualities to help him redeem himself. And Keyshawn Martin...he's so safe. But he doesn't return anything. And so when he fumbles it's a big deal because he doesn't go get it back/never takes it in the first place.

He had y'all thinking that a blocking receiver was a real thing. Lmao.

Starting Matt at any point in the future would be a mistake unless it was out of sheer necessity.

MEGA SWATT
10-17-2013, 12:20 AM
Schaub played a mistake free game and put up a whopping 6 points.

You've been brainwashed. You might as well walk around with your hand in kubes pocket on the sideline during games. He sold y'all hook line and sinker with that junk.

Mistakes aren't that bad if you have the ability to make plays. Kubiak has convinced you guys otherwise with his upset stomach face. That's why trindon holiday was cut...because kubiak couldn't unclench. That's why he sticks with Schaub...because he's safe...

That's why Kevin Walter was the number two here for so long. Kubiak has sold you on his ****ty brand of football. So now we have safe guy Matt....that when he does make mistakes has no qualities to help him redeem himself. And Keyshawn Martin...he's so safe. But he doesn't return anything. And so when he fumbles it's a big deal because he doesn't go get it back/never takes it in the first place.

He had y'all thinking that a blocking receiver was a real thing. Lmao.

Starting Matt at any point in the future would be a mistake unless it was out of sheer necessity.


Bin freaking go

Bingo.

leebigeztx
10-17-2013, 12:28 AM
Oh, I'm with you, bro. My cousin, he attended the University of Washington (true story) and they had this QB - a guy by the name of Star or Moon, or something like that. Anyway, this QB was a great college player, but I mean he just didn't get drafted. It just happens that way sometimes. Tough titty. At any rate, my cousin said that QB was playing ball up in Canada, so I guess things worked out for him in the end.

It makes me wonder, though - sometimes I have these crazy thoughts - how come we have all of these 1st, 2nd and 3rd round busts when all of the scouts and experts say this-and-that player is a "can't miss" prospect? It boggles the mind.

Warren Moon is not a good example because of the whole racial thing going on back then. Warren is arguably one of the greatest natural passers to play this game. Back then,the higher ups questioned whether or not black qbs could qb. Look at doug williams.

htownfan32
10-17-2013, 12:31 AM
He does not have to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. He just has to be better than MS and TY. That is not a hard thing to do. Anything above that is gravy. Hometown hype?? - I don't think so. That is simply a fact that does not enter the equation. He played for Houston, end of story there. The take away from his college play is that he was a bad azz.

Foster was undrafted. Keenum was undrafted. That is fact. You can't change facts, that is why they are called FACTS. Does not matter why they were undrafted.........they were simply..........you got it, undrafted.

No, you can't. And you can't change the reasons they were undrafted. Foster had a crappy last season in Tennessee that caused him to fall off the draft board. Did Keenum have a season like that in Houston?

htownfan32
10-17-2013, 12:32 AM
ok so you think keenum is overhyped despite the praise from the coaches and players.

you're kubiak, who do you start? a less than healthy schaub? TJ yates? or Keenum?

No, I think he's overhyped because people on this board take praise from coaches as "he must be amazing." He's obviously talented enough to make the team. Is he going to save this franchise? That remains to be seen.

This is precisely why I want Keenum to start. If he is like everyone on this board thinks he is, this franchise is saved and as a fan, I'm happy. If he isn't, all the noise dies down.

MEGA SWATT
10-17-2013, 12:43 AM
No, you can't. And you can't change the reasons they were undrafted. Foster had a crappy last season in Tennessee that caused him to fall off the draft board. Did Keenum have a season like that in Houston?


I understand what you're saying. I simply am not concerned with why. My point is that when you are undrafted.........that says to a player, you are not good enough. You basically suck. If not, we would have drafted you.

That can motivate players. Are you doubtful of this potential source of deep motivation from being undrafted in Keenum's case?

2012Champs
10-17-2013, 07:17 AM
It's as common as it is stupid, if you mean setting up 1 yard short of the goal line. That's like running a pattern yard short of the marker on 3rd down. Usually it's the receiver's fault.


Is it really that stupid? Shorter passes should have higher completion rates and most WR/te/rb don't have 0 yac. I'd bet it's not as stupid as you might think

disaacks3
10-17-2013, 09:21 AM
Is it really that stupid? Shorter passes should have higher completion rates and most WR/te/rb don't have 0 yac. I'd bet it's not as stupid as you might think In general, no. Thowing a 3-yd. pattern on 3rd and 11 is asking for too much out of the WR though.

Our best YAC guy is Foster @ 7.27
Then Tate @ 4.85
First WR Martin on a whopping 8 rec. @ 4.75
Then an actual TE Daniels (out) @ 3.58
Graham @ 2.29
Hopkins @ 2.24
then Andre @ 1.88

Link (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch)

Kaiser Toro
10-17-2013, 09:38 AM
In general, no. Thowing a 3-yd. pattern on 3rd and 11 is asking for too much out of the WR though.

Our best YAC guy is Foster @ 7.27
Then Tate @ 4.85
First WR Martin on a whopping 8 rec. @ 4.75
Then an actual TE Daniels (out) @ 3.58
Graham @ 2.29
Hopkins @ 2.24
then Andre @ 1.88

Link (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch)

Yep, team speed appears to be non-important trait for Smith & Kubiak in player acquisition.

2012Champs
10-17-2013, 09:40 AM
In general, no. Thowing a 3-yd. pattern on 3rd and 11 is asking for too much out of the WR though.

Our best YAC guy is Foster @ 7.27
Then Tate @ 4.85
First WR Martin on a whopping 8 rec. @ 4.75
Then an actual TE Daniels (out) @ 3.58
Graham @ 2.29
Hopkins @ 2.24
then Andre @ 1.88

Link (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch)



I wasnt speaking about a single play so thanks for cherry picking 3rd and 11. I would bet however that both tate and foster on average are targeted for the shortest passes out of the group

VTexan
10-17-2013, 10:04 AM
i want to believe.

EVOLVIST
10-17-2013, 10:12 AM
Warren Moon is not a good example because of the whole racial thing going on back then. Warren is arguably one of the greatest natural passers to play this game. Back then,the higher ups questioned whether or not black qbs could qb. Look at doug williams.

I knew this was going to come up. Warren Moon is actually a perfect example, and Doug Williams proves my point. Both QBs entered the 1978 draft with high hopes. Doug Williams was drafted in Rd #1, Moon was not drafted at all. By 1978 the black QBs inability to play had already been laid to rest, and it's Moon who perpetuates the myth that there was something about the color of his skin that didn't get him drafted. What Doug Williams did for black QBs cannot be denied, but the door was already wide open for the black QB in the NFL. It just makes a better story to state otherwise.

Geez, Marlin Briscoe in the late 60s early 70s, James Harris in the early 1970s, Vince Evans was drafted a year before Williams, and my God, Joe Gilliam! That's just off the top of my head.

In fact, the scout's knock on Moon was the same as the knock on Keenum: neither QB played in a pro-style drop back and pass offense.

dream_team
10-17-2013, 10:21 AM
Schaub played a mistake free game and put up a whopping 6 points.

You've been brainwashed. You might as well walk around with your hand in kubes pocket on the sideline during games. He sold y'all hook line and sinker with that junk.

Mistakes aren't that bad if you have the ability to make plays. Kubiak has convinced you guys otherwise with his upset stomach face. That's why trindon holiday was cut...because kubiak couldn't unclench. That's why he sticks with Schaub...because he's safe...

That's why Kevin Walter was the number two here for so long. Kubiak has sold you on his ****ty brand of football. So now we have safe guy Matt....that when he does make mistakes has no qualities to help him redeem himself. And Keyshawn Martin...he's so safe. But he doesn't return anything. And so when he fumbles it's a big deal because he doesn't go get it back/never takes it in the first place.

He had y'all thinking that a blocking receiver was a real thing. Lmao.

Starting Matt at any point in the future would be a mistake unless it was out of sheer necessity.

I don't agree that Schaub played mistake free, but he didn't make any huge/glaring mistakes. The point TK is making is that the whole team is making mistakes, we're not losing on Schaub alone. So unless we clean up the mistakes, who our QB will be is irrelevant. Fumbles and penalties are killing us as much as the interceptions are.

disaacks3
10-17-2013, 10:26 AM
I wasnt speaking about a single play so thanks for cherry picking 3rd and 11. I would bet however that both tate and foster on average are targeted for the shortest passes out of the group I wasn't either, so stuff your cherry-picking comment. You think 3rd an 11 is the only time we throw short? The Texans tend to throw far short of the sticks and the stats from this year show that we aren't going to make many where we need even 3 YAC.

Since you're being purposely obtuse, I'll spell it out for you. The Texans offense relies on underneath routes and performance after the catch. Since we're not getting the YAC, we damn well better start throwing downfiled.

Schaub has excellent stats on designed rollouts / bootlegs, but lousy ones under pressure when "Forced" out of the pocket. So, what was the gameplan for the Rams? Not a single goddamn rollout.

dream_team
10-17-2013, 10:28 AM
Anyone voting to start Schaub, please never ... ever ... watch football again.

Give the kid the ball, start Case.

I voted for Schaub, I guess I need to start looking for a new hobby on Sundays.

I actually don't care who starts on Sunday, as long as it's the person that will give us the best chance to win. The coaching staff has the best idea of who that person will be... but if I had to guess, it would be a healthy Schaub.

The last thing I want to see happen is Kubiak starts Case just to "see what we got". That implies he's given up on the season, which is what I don't want. We can see what we got in Case later in the season, if playoffs are out of the picture, and the games are meaningless.

thunderkyss
10-17-2013, 10:46 AM
Schaub played a mistake free game and put up a whopping 6 points.

You've been brainwashed. You might as well walk around with your hand in kubes pocket on the sideline during games. He sold y'all hook line and sinker with that junk.

Mistakes aren't that bad if you have the ability to make plays. Kubiak has convinced you guys otherwise with his upset stomach face. That's why trindon holiday was cut...because kubiak couldn't unclench. That's why he sticks with Schaub...because he's safe...


I agree with your point in general.

If we were playing someone else mistakes would be a lot lower on my "keys to victory" list. This team, like the Bears when we played them last year, are leading the league in capitalizing on the other teams mistakes. That's why they are 6-0 (in addition to playing nobody).


All I want is a win. I don't care if this game looks like last year's game in Chicago.

2012Champs
10-17-2013, 11:12 AM
I wasn't either, so stuff your cherry-picking comment. You think 3rd an 11 is the only time we throw short? The Texans tend to throw far short of the sticks and the stats from this year show that we aren't going to make many where we need even 3 YAC.

Since you're being purposely obtuse, I'll spell it out for you. The Texans offense relies on underneath routes and performance after the catch. Since we're not getting the YAC, we damn well better start throwing downfiled.

Schaub has excellent stats on designed rollouts / bootlegs, but lousy ones under pressure when "Forced" out of the pocket. So, what was the gameplan for the Rams? Not a single goddamn rollout.



3rd and 11 is pretty specific. So if it is 3rd and 5 3rd and 7 and you throw 2-3 yards short you would typically pick up yac. Throwing short of the sticks is not a Texans only practice but keep up with it

CretorFrigg
10-17-2013, 11:19 AM
3rd and 11 is pretty specific. So if it is 3rd and 5 3rd and 7 and you throw 2-3 yards short you would typically pick up yac. Throwing short of the sticks is not a Texans only practice but keep up with it

It's not only a Texans problem, but it is something Schaub struggles with. Our O-line isn't exactly giving our QBs the best protection. In order to complete a long pass, the O-line either needs to give the QB more time, or the QB needs to create that time on his own by scrambling and moving in the pocket. Matt Schaub can't do that, and our O-line can't protect him, so that's why we struggle with 3rd and long situations.

2012Champs
10-17-2013, 11:23 AM
It's not only a Texans problem, but it is something Schaub struggles with. Our O-line isn't exactly giving our QBs the best protection. In order to complete a long pass, the O-line either needs to give the QB more time, or the QB needs to create that time on his own by scrambling and moving in the pocket. Matt Schaub can't do that, and our O-line can't protect him, so that's why we struggle with 3rd and long situations.



that I can agree with

Carr Bombed
10-17-2013, 11:28 AM
Yep, team speed appears to be non-important trait for Smith & Kubiak in player acquisition.

I think the bigger problem is ball placement. Schaub used to be accurate, but that's gone into the crapper.. when your receivers have to jump in the air, reach down at passes thrown at their feet, or contort for passes thrown behind them there's little opportunities for YAC yards. I mean how many times do we actually see WRs get led or thrown open in this offense.

Dread-Head
10-17-2013, 11:47 AM
:thinking: Cha...I'm.....I'm....gonna stick...with ....Bill on this one.

Mr teX
10-17-2013, 11:58 AM
It's not only a Texans problem, but it is something Schaub struggles with. Our O-line isn't exactly giving our QBs the best protection. In order to complete a long pass, the O-line either needs to give the QB more time, or the QB needs to create that time on his own by scrambling and moving in the pocket. Matt Schaub can't do that, and our O-line can't protect him, so that's why we struggle with 3rd and long situations.

Unless you're ben Rothlisberger..a guy notorious for running around behind the LOS waiting for someone to uncover, or 1 of the elite guys, no qb can survive and play a great game that way...consistently anyway. Your o-line has to be pretty competent for them to play half way decent. You're either going to get hurt or you're going to be throwing bad balls trying to move around too much b/c your line can't block anybody. The only reason Rothlisberger gets away with it so consistently is b/c he's like 6'4 & 250 and for the most part can take the punishment he recieves by doing it...not the case with Keenum.

Keenum projects to be better at moving around in short space, but it doesn't mean that he'll be any better getting the ball downfield b/c no qb likes being moved off their spot..Furthermore, As a qb working under center, you see how quick those DE's get off the snap out of the corner of your eye....If you're routinely getting hit, b/c your RT is getting blown by, it makes it just that much harder to keep your focus downfield where it should be... It speeds up your clock...& as a qb you tend to want to check it down in an effort to avoid negative plays...Kubiak knows this....it's just part of the long list things that factor into why we're not throwing it downfield much these days..

The o-line struggles are going to be a huge factor for whomever is under center...& whomever that is apart from Schaub, you can't expect them to continue to make plays under those circumstances

disaacks3
10-17-2013, 12:55 PM
3rd and 11 is pretty specific. So if it is 3rd and 5 3rd and 7 and you throw 2-3 yards short you would typically pick up yac. Throwing short of the sticks is not a Texans only practice but keep up with it I never said it was a Texans only practice, but this year they SUCK at picking up YAC. A point exacerbated by our top 2 receivers averaging 2.

Texans TEAM YAC = 3.29
Texans Opponent YAC = 5.40

Chiefs TEAM YAC = 5.06
Chiefs Opponent YAC = 4.64

Hell, maybe we up the average this game, but let's not act like the Texans (17th in 3rd down conv.) are doing "above average". As you say, keep up with it.

2012Champs
10-17-2013, 12:57 PM
I never said it was a Texans only practice, but this year they SUCK at picking up YAC. A point exacerbated by our top 2 receivers averaging 2.

Texans TEAM YAC = 3.29
Texans Opponent YAC = 5.40

Chiefs TEAM YAC = 5.06
Chiefs Opponent YAC = 4.64

Hell, maybe we up the average this game, but let's not act like the Texans (17th in 3rd down conv.) are doing "above average". As you say, keep up with it.


where did I say the texans were doing way above average?

leebigeztx
10-17-2013, 01:14 PM
I knew this was going to come up. Warren Moon is actually a perfect example, and Doug Williams proves my point. Both QBs entered the 1978 draft with high hopes. Doug Williams was drafted in Rd #1, Moon was not drafted at all. By 1978 the black QBs inability to play had already been laid to rest, and it's Moon who perpetuates the myth that there was something about the color of his skin that didn't get him drafted. What Doug Williams did for black QBs cannot be denied, but the door was already wide open for the black QB in the NFL. It just makes a better story to state otherwise.

Geez, Marlin Briscoe in the late 60s early 70s, James Harris in the early 1970s, Vince Evans was drafted a year before Williams, and my God, Joe Gilliam! That's just off the top of my head.

In fact, the scout's knock on Moon was the same as the knock on Keenum: neither QB played in a pro-style drop back and pass offense.

If knew it would come up,then maybe you should've done a better job of getting your facts together. Warren Moon played in a pro style offense and played well in college. Doug williams came out of a swac school. The examples you gave are poor because between joe g with the steelers and warren moon,there were countless black qbs who were told to play another position. Hell,charlie ward wasn't even drafted because teams thought he might play basketball and wasn't sure if it was the offense at fsu.Nevermind the guy had a cannon,was a natural leader,and was very,very, mobile. So when you say warren and doug compare to case,I think your wrong and getting wronger. As soon as warren got thru dominating the cfl,he was the highest paid qb in the nfl.case on the other have had 2 guys recently get drafted playing in the exact same system. Rg3 and kolb both were drafted high playing in that same system. Just like white and heupal played in the same system as bradford but wasn't drafted. Scouts can look past the system and look at talent.

leebigeztx
10-17-2013, 01:20 PM
I think the bigger problem is ball placement. Schaub used to be accurate, but that's gone into the crapper.. when your receivers have to jump in the air, reach down at passes thrown at their feet, or contort for passes thrown behind them there's little opportunities for YAC yards. I mean how many times do we actually see WRs get led or thrown open in this offense.

Schaub has never been that accurate. How many times have we seen schaub leave points on the field because he didn't lead the wrs? How many times have andre had to pluck a ball off the shoelaces. I think one of the reasons they drafted hopkins is because he can catch bad passes. I never thought of him as a 1 ish wr because he's not that explosive.He's the kind of wr you have to throw open or put it in his area and he will get it no matter how poorly its thrown. On the other hand,dbs don't worry about him running by them. Actually the same can be said for just about every wr and te on the texans.

kingtexan
10-17-2013, 01:32 PM
I think the bigger problem is ball placement. Schaub used to be accurate, in his dreams, but as it turns out QB's must be awake in order to participate in an NFL game, and Matt couldn't hit his ass with both hands, if he were given three tries and a Google map

fify

disaacks3
10-17-2013, 01:58 PM
where did I say the texans were doing way above average? You accused me of chery-picking 3rd and 11 as if the Texans didn't throw well short of the chains on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7...

If the Texans were converting those with the needed YAC, we wouldn't be ranked #17. I'm not cherry-picking, I'm commenting on a trend. Similar to the 3rd and long-let's-run-it-up-the-middle trend of which Kubiak is the worst offender.

Speaking of 3rd and 11, this isn't something new, the Texans were 4th in the league at number of 3rd & 11+ LAST year. Averaged over 2012-2013, the Texans move up to third. Conversions are near the bottom @27. Link (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/texans-2012-3rd-down-runs/) Link (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/play_finder.cgi?request=1&match=summary_all&year_min=2012&year_max=2013&team_id=&opp_id=&game_type=R&playoff_round=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&quarter=1&quarter=2&quarter=3&quarter=4&quarter=5&tr_gtlt=lt&minutes=15&seconds=00&down=3&ytg_gtlt=gt&yds_to_go=11&yg_gtlt=gt&yards=&is_first_down=-1&fp_gtlt=gt&fp_tm_opp=team&fp_ydline=&type=PASS&type=RUSH&is_turnover=-1&is_scoring=-1&no_play=0&game_day_of_week=&game_location=&game_result=&margin_min=&margin_max=&order_by=yards#tm_offense::2)

Hell, let's look at Schaub's last game and 3rd down passing, bearing in mind that he was looking better than usual:

##2nd QTR 9:00 3rd and 9 Matt Schaub pass complete short left to Keshawn Martin for 7 yards (tackle by Janoris Jenkins)

**2nd QTR 2:05 3rd and 5 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Andre Johnson for 15 yards (tackle by Matt Giordano)

##2nd QTR 0:59 3rd and 8 Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep right intended for DeAndre Hopkins

##3rd QTR 13:51 3rd and 10 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Garrett Graham for 5 yards (tackle by Rodney McLeod and James Laurinaitis)

An incompletion, two short of the sticks, one First down.

Yates?

##3rd QTR 2:55 3rd and 12 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Arian Foster for 7 yards (tackle by Alec Ogletree and Trumaine Johnson)

##3rd QTR 1:28 3rd and 6 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to DeVier Posey for 3 yards (tackle by William Hayes)

##4th QTR 8:11 3rd and 5 T.J. Yates pass incomplete short left intended for Arian Foster

**4th 1:04 3rd and 4 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Ryan Griffin for 10 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

**4th QTR 0:25 3rd and 2 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to Ryan Griffin for 8 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

How cute - Two 1st downs in the final 1:04. An incomplete and two short of the sticks before then.

Kaiser Toro
10-17-2013, 02:11 PM
You accused me of chery-picking 3rd and 11 as if the Texans didn't throw well short of the chains on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7...

If the Texans were converting those with the needed YAC, we wouldn't be ranked #17. I'm not cherry-picking, I'm commenting on a trend. Similar to the 3rd and long-let's-run-it-up-the-middle trend of which Kubiak is the worst offender.

Speaking of 3rd and 11, this isn't something new, the Texans were 4th in the league at number of 3rd & 11+ LAST year. Averaged over 2012-2013, the Texans move up to third. Conversions are near the bottom @27. Link (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/texans-2012-3rd-down-runs/) Link (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/play_finder.cgi?request=1&match=summary_all&year_min=2012&year_max=2013&team_id=&opp_id=&game_type=R&playoff_round=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&quarter=1&quarter=2&quarter=3&quarter=4&quarter=5&tr_gtlt=lt&minutes=15&seconds=00&down=3&ytg_gtlt=gt&yds_to_go=11&yg_gtlt=gt&yards=&is_first_down=-1&fp_gtlt=gt&fp_tm_opp=team&fp_ydline=&type=PASS&type=RUSH&is_turnover=-1&is_scoring=-1&no_play=0&game_day_of_week=&game_location=&game_result=&margin_min=&margin_max=&order_by=yards#tm_offense::2)

Hell, let's look at Schaub's last game and 3rd down passing, bearing in mind that he was looking better than usual:

##2nd QTR 9:00 3rd and 9 Matt Schaub pass complete short left to Keshawn Martin for 7 yards (tackle by Janoris Jenkins)

**2nd QTR 2:05 3rd and 5 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Andre Johnson for 15 yards (tackle by Matt Giordano)

##2nd QTR 0:59 3rd and 8 Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep right intended for DeAndre Hopkins

##3rd QTR 13:51 3rd and 10 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Garrett Graham for 5 yards (tackle by Rodney McLeod and James Laurinaitis)

An incompletion, two short of the sticks, one First down.

Yates?

##3rd QTR 2:55 3rd and 12 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Arian Foster for 7 yards (tackle by Alec Ogletree and Trumaine Johnson)

##3rd QTR 1:28 3rd and 6 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to DeVier Posey for 3 yards (tackle by William Hayes)

##4th QTR 8:11 3rd and 5 T.J. Yates pass incomplete short left intended for Arian Foster

**4th 1:04 3rd and 4 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Ryan Griffin for 10 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

**4th QTR 0:25 3rd and 2 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to Ryan Griffin for 8 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

How cute - Two 1st downs in the final 1:04. An incomplete and two short of the sticks before then.

So what? You are just a fan and NFL coaches know more than you. :kitten:

Hottoddie
10-17-2013, 02:13 PM
I wonder if Kubiak saw this poll when he made his decision? :D

DBCooper
10-17-2013, 02:28 PM
I wonder if Kubiak saw this poll when he made his decision? :D

Of course I errr he did.

2012Champs
10-17-2013, 02:30 PM
You accused me of chery-picking 3rd and 11 as if the Texans didn't throw well short of the chains on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7...

If the Texans were converting those with the needed YAC, we wouldn't be ranked #17. I'm not cherry-picking, I'm commenting on a trend. Similar to the 3rd and long-let's-run-it-up-the-middle trend of which Kubiak is the worst offender.

Speaking of 3rd and 11, this isn't something new, the Texans were 4th in the league at number of 3rd & 11+ LAST year. Averaged over 2012-2013, the Texans move up to third. Conversions are near the bottom @27. Link (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/texans-2012-3rd-down-runs/) Link (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/play_finder.cgi?request=1&match=summary_all&year_min=2012&year_max=2013&team_id=&opp_id=&game_type=R&playoff_round=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&quarter=1&quarter=2&quarter=3&quarter=4&quarter=5&tr_gtlt=lt&minutes=15&seconds=00&down=3&ytg_gtlt=gt&yds_to_go=11&yg_gtlt=gt&yards=&is_first_down=-1&fp_gtlt=gt&fp_tm_opp=team&fp_ydline=&type=PASS&type=RUSH&is_turnover=-1&is_scoring=-1&no_play=0&game_day_of_week=&game_location=&game_result=&margin_min=&margin_max=&order_by=yards#tm_offense::2)

Hell, let's look at Schaub's last game and 3rd down passing, bearing in mind that he was looking better than usual:

##2nd QTR 9:00 3rd and 9 Matt Schaub pass complete short left to Keshawn Martin for 7 yards (tackle by Janoris Jenkins)

**2nd QTR 2:05 3rd and 5 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Andre Johnson for 15 yards (tackle by Matt Giordano)

##2nd QTR 0:59 3rd and 8 Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep right intended for DeAndre Hopkins

##3rd QTR 13:51 3rd and 10 Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Garrett Graham for 5 yards (tackle by Rodney McLeod and James Laurinaitis)

An incompletion, two short of the sticks, one First down.

Yates?

##3rd QTR 2:55 3rd and 12 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Arian Foster for 7 yards (tackle by Alec Ogletree and Trumaine Johnson)

##3rd QTR 1:28 3rd and 6 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to DeVier Posey for 3 yards (tackle by William Hayes)

##4th QTR 8:11 3rd and 5 T.J. Yates pass incomplete short left intended for Arian Foster

**4th 1:04 3rd and 4 T.J. Yates pass complete short right to Ryan Griffin for 10 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

**4th QTR 0:25 3rd and 2 T.J. Yates pass complete short middle to Ryan Griffin for 8 yards (tackle by Jo-Lonn Dunbar)

How cute - Two 1st downs in the final 1:04. An incomplete and two short of the sticks before then.



I said that throwing short of the sticks is common and not just for the Texans which is a fact. You threw out a 3rd and 11, the conversion % for the nfl is rather low for those 3rd and long distances also fact. The texans at midde of the pack on 3rd down conversions


Now I was expecting you to show me where I said the texans were above average as you claimed, you couldnt do that. I wonder why?

htownfan32
10-17-2013, 02:32 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vpE6uMJ37dk/UOScrne47aI/AAAAAAAAEL4/Ki-4IWO-SoY/s1600/ron-paul.gif


Really and truly hope to be eating some crow on Sunday.

They're reporting it on ESPN too.

Blake
10-17-2013, 04:17 PM
Really and truly hope to be eating some crow on Sunday.

I really hate this cop-out. If you are right you get to complain and say "See, I told you so", but if you are wrong you just shrug your shoulders and celebrate the victory.

After weeks of banging the Anybody but Schaub drum, I finally tell myself that Schaub would be better to play @ KC rather than an inexperienced 2nd year pro and they go with the inexperienced 2nd year pro...

I guess starting him off at home and not against a top defense would be too much to ask...

thunderkyss
10-17-2013, 04:53 PM
I bet the effort level shoots up vs Kansas City. We're going to get fumbles, we're going to get INTs, we're going to pick up 3rd & 1s, Arian is going to catch more of those little dump offs & turn it up field.

If there's any doubt that this team quit on Kubiak/Schaub... it'll be pretty clear on Sunday.

SchaubApologist
10-17-2013, 05:30 PM
I bet the effort level shoots up vs Kansas City. We're going to get fumbles, we're going to get INTs, we're going to pick up 3rd & 1s, Arian is going to catch more of those little dump offs & turn it up field.

If there's any doubt that this team quit on Kubiak/Schaub... it'll be pretty clear on Sunday.

Very good points. I could not agree more.

I have not been this excited for a Texans game all year.

HJam72
10-17-2013, 05:35 PM
I bet AJ scores.

drs23
10-17-2013, 06:55 PM
i want to believe.

There's a thread for you!

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102399

Check in and make it known?






:D

EVOLVIST
10-17-2013, 07:37 PM
If knew it would come up,then maybe you should've done a better job of getting your facts together. Warren Moon played in a pro style offense and played well in college. Doug williams came out of a swac school. The examples you gave are poor because between joe g with the steelers and warren moon,there were countless black qbs who were told to play another position. Hell,charlie ward wasn't even drafted because teams thought he might play basketball and wasn't sure if it was the offense at fsu.Nevermind the guy had a cannon,was a natural leader,and was very,very, mobile. So when you say warren and doug compare to case,I think your wrong and getting wronger. As soon as warren got thru dominating the cfl,he was the highest paid qb in the nfl.case on the other have had 2 guys recently get drafted playing in the exact same system. Rg3 and kolb both were drafted high playing in that same system. Just like white and heupal played in the same system as bradford but wasn't drafted. Scouts can look past the system and look at talent.

Wow, man, you're a trip. I chose my what I wrote in the service of comparing one undrafted QB to another undrafted QB, not considering Warren Moon's personal axe to grind as a part of the equation...and rightfully so! That you brought up race, even after my words, and yours, as well, speaks against it is where we've gone "wrong." Not knowing where an athlete fits on a pro team has been an issue with all races, not just black. Sh!t, we're talking about the 60s, 70s, and 80s, not the days of Fitz Pollard. I'm saying you took it off course. Doug Williams only came up, on my end, because he was drafted the same year as Moon...and Moon arguably was the greater talent.

Regardless, a number of things in my very first post was tongue in cheek anyway, leading to the main point (and you mentioning RGIII, Heupal, et al, helps). There wouldn't be ay such thing as a first round bust if all the experts knew how to grade perfectly. That includes Moon; that includes Tom Brady; and that includes Ryan Leaf. Start looking at names. There's tons of them, both beautiful and bust...and I'm sure a thousands of what ifs that never got a chance at all coming out of college.

That's the NFL, regardless of what era, color or position.

EllisUnit
10-18-2013, 05:02 PM
Well if you only want to be short sighted about 4 games then obviously not so well, but then again I am not one who says it was all Schaub's fault. Perhaps you are.

But historically it has worked out great for the Texans. Schaub turned them from a disastrous franchise into a back to back division winner that many were picking to go to the Super Bowl this year.

Can't keep saying 4 games represent then rest of the Texans season.

Really cause if i recall correctly we didnt become a 2 time division winner until wade took over and we got jojo and manning in FA, pretty sure yates got us the actual division and won us our first play off game. Lets not act like our success the last two seasons is all because of Schaub.

infantrycak
10-18-2013, 05:24 PM
Really cause if i recall correctly we didnt become a 2 time division winner until wade took over and we got jojo and manning in FA, pretty sure yates got us the actual division and won us our first play off game. Lets not act like our success the last two seasons is all because of Schaub.

Yates did jack in 2011 other than not sink the boat. Based on his play, if he had started all season there wouldn't have been a playoff birth even with Wade's D.

EllisUnit
10-18-2013, 07:30 PM
Yates did jack in 2011 other than not sink the boat. Based on his play, if he had started all season there wouldn't have been a playoff birth even with Wade's D.

Not saying we won all because of yates, but we did clinch with him at QB and won our first play off game. My whole point was our success was not soley because of Schaub, not to mention most of our failure this season on offense is due to Schaub.

2012Champs
10-18-2013, 08:02 PM
Not saying we won all because of yates, but we did clinch with him at QB and won our first play off game. My whole point was our success was not soley because of Schaub, not to mention most of our failure this season on offense is due to Schaub.


Yates wouldn't have a playoff win without Matt

Texan_Bill
10-18-2013, 08:08 PM
Well my choice is obvious. Bill! Someone sober him up and get his ass to practice.

Not gonna happen my brother!!!

:thinking:
Although, while stationed in Germany, I once showed up for a playoff flag football game at 8:00am wearing slacks, dress shoes and a button down collar. That's what I was wearing the night before and showed up from a taxi that morning...

BTW, I had an interception and later a TD..... FACT!!!

*EDIT*
And yes, I voted for myself. I feel motivated after that ^^^^^^ true story!!
That said, no sobering!!

EllisUnit
10-18-2013, 08:15 PM
Yates wouldn't have a playoff win without Matt

Matt wouldnt have a play off win without foster, didnt matt throw a pick 6 in the play offs as well ?

2012Champs
10-18-2013, 08:17 PM
Matt wouldnt have a play off win without foster, didnt matt throw a pick 6 in the play offs as well ?

Clearly you are missing it

EllisUnit
10-18-2013, 08:23 PM
Clearly you are missing it

Clearly Schaub didnt win the play off game, he tried to give it away. Would rate Yates first play off game much better than Schaubs. My point is Schaub has never done well in pressure situations.

2012Champs
10-18-2013, 08:45 PM
Clearly Schaub didnt win the play off game, he tried to give it away. Would rate Yates first play off game much better than Schaubs. My point is Schaub has never done well in pressure situations.

Make a point that Schaub has never done well under pressure then. Don't talk about playoff wins if said qb was 2-3 and only made it to the playoffs because the texans had already booked 7 wins and Matt II locked up the 8th before Yates took the field

Lord Bills
10-18-2013, 08:54 PM
2012Champs, Beer and Metal, Blake, deucetx, dream_team, Goatcheese, Ktexan68, LEATHERHEAD, Nitrofish, thunderkyss


http://i45.tinypic.com/okc3rl.gif

EllisUnit
10-18-2013, 08:56 PM
Make a point that Schaub has never done well under pressure then. Don't talk about playoff wins if said qb was 2-3 and only made it to the playoffs because the texans had already booked 7 wins and Matt II locked up the 8th before Yates took the field

Ok then Matt Schaub has never done well under pressure. Bright lights shine on him, and they blind him. He has had his shot, more than enough opportunities so it will be sad if Case gets only 1 shot.

Lord Bills
10-18-2013, 08:59 PM
Ok then Matt Schaub has never done well under pressure. Bright lights shine on him, and they blind him. He has had his shot, more than enough opportunities so it will be sad if Case gets only 1 shot.

all you have to do is show schaub's record vs playoff elite teams. It was abysmal. I think they showed it during the seahawk game if im not mistaken. Schaub consistently craps the bed in big games.

Nitrofish
10-18-2013, 11:56 PM
Really cause if i recall correctly we didnt become a 2 time division winner until wade took over and we got jojo and manning in FA, pretty sure yates got us the actual division and won us our first play off game. Lets not act like our success the last two seasons is all because of Schaub.

Ha! So I see.. It's a team effort when they win, (Wade, jojo, manning, etc.) and Schaub's fault when they lose? Can't have it both ways bro. I know others already answered the exaggeration you made regarding Yates taking the Texans to their first Playoff berth, but I gotta say, you really have your blinders on if you honestly believe that.

Unlike your desire to single out one person when things go wrong, I have never said Schaub was the sole reason this team has won or lost, I just pointed out the discrepancies when people blame all of the teams woes on Schaub. If you are going to fault him when the Texans lose, you also have to credit him when they win. Simple as that.

Not saying we won all because of yates, but we did clinch with him at QB and won our first play off game. My whole point was our success was not soley because of Schaub, not to mention most of our failure this season on offense is due to Schaub.

Really? Sure sounded like it to me when you said "pretty sure Yates got us the actual division and won us our first play off game" which of course is NOT true. If anyone deserves credit it would be Kubiak for protecting Yates and keeping him from totally sinking that season. Once Kubiak let Yates off the chain vs. the Ravens, you saw what he was really like. 3 INT's.

Do you not realize how contradictory you sound when on one hand you say Schaub is not the sole reason the Texans have won, then turn around and immediately say that most of failures on offense are Schaub's fault? Hilarious!

Clearly Schaub didnt win the play off game, he tried to give it away. Would rate Yates first play off game much better than Schaubs. My point is Schaub has never done well in pressure situations.

Honestly I think your only point is you think Schaub sucks and he was to blame for everything wrong with the Texans, and when the Texans won, it was everybody but Schaub who contributed. As I said above, you cannot blame losses or failure on Schaub and then fail to give him credit when the Texans win.

Thorn
10-19-2013, 03:25 AM
Schaub consistently craps the bed in big games.

He didn't use to. For a while he was doing his best to keep us in games while our piss poor defense kept giving up TDs. Schaub was once carrying this team on his back, now he can't carry his own water. But don't discount his early history with the team, which was good.

Rey
10-19-2013, 08:28 AM
Schaub has never been a really good QB. He used to not suck as bad, but he never used to carry this team to wins.