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jaayteetx
10-08-2013, 09:46 AM
Its taken me awhile to come to this but I can no longer see a light at the end of the Matt Schaub tunnel. I am endorsing change in the form of Case Keenum, who seems to be the only QB on the roster who has any chance of being a true game changer. In that spirit, I have now changed my avatar to reflect Case's alma mater, who is with me?

Sigma
10-08-2013, 09:53 AM
I don't have any problems saying I am ignorant when talking about football

That was me, so you may not want me to be on your side :)

jaayteetx
10-08-2013, 09:54 AM
That was me, so you may not want me to be on your side :)

Strenght in numbers right? Lol.

Sigma
10-08-2013, 09:57 AM
Strenght in numbers right? Lol.

If you follow my first quote you will find a better explanation of my thoughts...

long-story-short: I like keenum but I'd rather wait to start him as QB

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 10:04 AM
I'm a coog so you know i'm with you... I'm just guarding against homerism. I saw him play many many times at U of H....i just want him to earn the job and be given a real shot..not some last ditch effort to try to save this season.

As it stands now, i feel if he gets in & doesn't perform well or just mediocore, he'll be written off by most here & the staff as well come next offseason and you likely won't hear from him again...at least here.

Let him get in late in the season & gain some confidence so going into the next off-season he comes in pretty much as the incumbent. Let him compete with a 1st round talent...if he wins, he wins & he gets a real shot to lead this franchise...if not well.

jaayteetx
10-08-2013, 10:32 AM
I'm a coog so you know i'm with you... I'm just guarding against homerism. I saw him play many many times at U of H....i just want him to earn the job and be given a real shot..not some last ditch effort to try to save this season.

As it stands now, i feel if he gets in & doesn't perform well or just mediocore, he'll be written off by most here & the staff as well come next offseason and you likely won't hear from him again...at least here.

Let him get in late in the season & gain some confidence so going into the next off-season he comes in pretty much as the incumbent. Let him compete with a 1st round talent...if he wins, he wins & he gets a real shot to lead this franchise...if not well.

No time like the present. With today's rules designed for more offense and protecting qbs, no since in sheltering young qbs anymore. Schaub doesn't have "it" anymore and TJ doesn't appear to be a game changer so lets see what we got with Case.

Thorn
10-08-2013, 10:40 AM
I've been in the Keenum Koolaid drinking club for a while now. :doot:

HTown2ATX
10-08-2013, 10:46 AM
I don't know if this makes me some "Keenum Truther" or whatever Montrose-esque term people want to assign, but yeah, I want to see Keenum over Yates and here is my reasoning;

Schaub is FUBAR'd and IMO, neither Yates or Keenum THIS season will lead the Texans to the promised land. That said, I already know what Yates has, it's a Schaub 2.0 without the picks Schaub has had this season for the most part.

With Keenum, he is a total enigma as far as what he can do and is mobile and has the guts to "stand tall" in the pocket and not go fetal and sling it around.

Now, let's re-read what I just said for those that clearly won't read what I just said and knee jerk all over themselves about daring to think Keenum should get a shot.....IMO the season is shot if Schaub doesn't turn it around, we have seen the Yates act which is similar to Schaub, so let's give the kid a chance in what would be a wasted season anyway. Will he be the savior, doubt it, but let's find out.

cstyle42
10-08-2013, 10:55 AM
I'm a coog so you know i'm with you... I'm just guarding against homerism. I saw him play many many times at U of H....i just want him to earn the job and be given a real shot..not some last ditch effort to try to save this season.

As it stands now, i feel if he gets in & doesn't perform well or just mediocore, he'll be written off by most here & the staff as well come next offseason and you likely won't hear from him again...at least here.

Let him get in late in the season & gain some confidence so going into the next off-season he comes in pretty much as the incumbent. Let him compete with a 1st round talent...if he wins, he wins & he gets a real shot to lead this franchise...if not well.

He has the most potential on the roster to be a star qb so why not?

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 11:16 AM
No time like the present. With today's rules designed for more offense and protecting qbs, no since in sheltering young qbs anymore. Schaub doesn't have "it" anymore and TJ doesn't appear to be a game changer so lets see what we got with Case.

Schaub's outta the picture.....i get that

what you're not taking into account is that most of these new age qb's who aren't being sheltered are 1st round talents.....i.e. guys that have their coaches pressed by fans & owners more often than not to mold their offenses to thier skill sets...the lone exceptions are Wilson & Kaepernick. And as much as a game changer Keenum has the potential to be, does anyone think Kubiak is gonna mold or change his offense to fully take advantage of Keenum's abilities? Nope. If he were the heir apparent to Drew Brees in that system....i'd agree with you. That's the type of system he comes from & Peyton would be sure to carry him & adapt...here with this coaching staff...nope.

Lastly, people keep saying the bolded but the new rules & the explosion of offense still aren't preventing qb's from failing at about the same clips as they were back when young guys were primarily sheltered. See Newton, Bradford....Weeden.

Apart from that....what's the rush? Rodgers sat on the bench for like 3-4 years before he got his shot..I think we all agree that it worked out okay for the Pack & Rodgers had immensely more talent than Keenum when he came out.

Hervoyel
10-08-2013, 11:21 AM
Schaub's outta the picture.....i get that

what you're not taking into account is that most of these new age qb's who aren't being sheltered are 1st round talents.....i.e. guys that have their coaches pressed by fans & owners more often than not to mold their offenses to thier skill sets...the lone exceptions are Wilson & Kaepernick. And as much as a game changer Keenum has the potential to be, does anyone think Kubiak is gonna mold or change his offense to fully take advantage of Keenum's abilities? Nope. If he were the heir apparent to Drew Brees in that system....i'd agree with you. That's the type of system he comes from & Peyton would be sure to carry him & adapt...here with this coaching staff...nope.

Lastly, people keep saying the bolded but the new rules & the explosion of offense still aren't preventing qb's from failing at about the same clips as they were back when young guys were primarily sheltered. See Newton, Bradford....Weeden.

Apart from that....what's the rush? Rodgers sat on the bench for like 3-4 years before he got shot..worked out okay for the Pack.


That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines and something bad happens as a result.

Vinnie
10-08-2013, 11:26 AM
That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I think Kubiak play calls to what he sees as Schaub's strengths. Unfortunately, Schaub is declining rapidly. He would do the same thing for Case, or even TJ for that matter. I think we saw some of that in the preseason.

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 11:42 AM
I don't think this is necessarily true. I think Kubiak play calls to what he sees as Schaub's strengths. Unfortunately, Schaub is declining rapidly. He would do the same thing for Case, or even TJ for that matter. I think we saw some of that in the preseason.

People gotta stop with this...If Kubiak thought this:

we wouldn't have come out slinging the ball like we did against the best secondary in the game...what's more is he probably would've went into his conservative shell after schaub threw the 1st pick in that game..

He damn sure wouldn't have call that play he did in the SF game 3 plays into the game that led to the pick 6...he probably would've just ran it there & punted.

There's probably like 2-3 plays he might not call with Schaub that he would call with a better qb...but what makes you think he'd call those same plays with a kid making his 1st professional starts in only his 2nd year in the NFL...............the 1st on an active roster?

DX-TEX
10-08-2013, 12:14 PM
http://i.imgur.com/2L0y5Zw.png

Brisco_County
10-08-2013, 12:14 PM
A Longhorn chiming in to endorse Keenum as the starter.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 12:18 PM
That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines and something bad happens as a result.

I believe gary uses keenum differently. running on 4th and 1 and going for the long balls during pre-season. case has answered too.

ThaJokaa
10-08-2013, 12:36 PM
I like both TJ n Case, but I don't see Kubes starting Case over TJ. If he does then why is TJ on the roster? Only way I see Case playing is if TJ stinks it up

silvrhand
10-08-2013, 12:58 PM
Case isn't even on the active roster.. Sorry wet dreams won't happen till he at least comes on the active roster.

jaayteetx
10-08-2013, 01:01 PM
Case isn't even on the active roster.. Sorry wet dreams won't happen till he at least comes on the active roster.

Yes he is, he isn't active on game day. Your statement implies he is on the practice squad, which he isn't.

jaayteetx
10-08-2013, 01:04 PM
I think I'll go with his pic instead.

TexansBull
10-08-2013, 01:30 PM
I believe gary uses keenum differently. running on 4th and 1 and going for the long balls during pre-season. case has answered too.

I agree with this, but I am a homer.

The problem isn't that Kubiak won't or can't come up with a different game plan.

The problem is Kubiak is refusing to cut the cord to the anchor that is Matt Schaub. Classic Kubiak fashion i.e. Kris Brown, any defensive coordinator before Wade, and Marciano(sp).

leebigeztx
10-08-2013, 02:09 PM
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.

HTown2ATX
10-08-2013, 02:49 PM
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.

Problem is Matt's arm sucks too. May as well take the mobility and see what happens. Hopefully he doesn't throw 4 pick 6's in 4 games.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 03:11 PM
In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball.

this is a complete myth. there are many that have witnessed during preseason and practice, including the coach, that keenum's arm strength is fine. among the 3, case has a stronger arm than both tj and schaub.

you want to see a bad arm these days, look at matt. I've never seen such bad velocity and easy reads in my support for MS all these years.

Hervoyel
10-08-2013, 03:20 PM
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.


Absolute bull****.

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 03:35 PM
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.

What you're describing is part of why this offense is "qb friendly"...it doesn't require them to read defenses in the traditional sense...like you see every 1 of the top qb's do. You've seen it with every single qb we've had starting under Kubiak...

They come to the line
glance over the defense to figure out where the ball should go according to the system & what the defense shows them

They jump under center

snap the ball

No calling out the Mike lb....

no real audibling....

This is also why you rarely see Schaub hard counting & he often quick snaps...I mean when you think about it, what good does it do to hard count if you can't change the play?....even if you do see what the defense is really going to do you're pretty much stuck with Kubiak's rigid system.

The problem is defenses have figured out how to manipulate Kubiak's rigidness with his qb's in not allowing them to jump out of bad plays with something to burn the blitzing & trap coverages...So they disguise early and change up late....You see it clearly with Schaub's last 2 pick 6's...the cb's weren't worried at all about their man running deep. They knew Schaub was going there with the ball b/c they told him to go there with their pre snap look.

You say, "well, that's not all that different from how they do every qb" & you're right......it's just that much more effective against us b/c the qb's don't have any real power to audible to something that will make the defense pay severely when you're too agressive at taking the short stuff away.

Couple this with predictable play calling a noodle armed qb, bad o-line play at times & you've got disaster. This is ultimately why you see Schaub throwing short on 3rd and long so much. His pre snap read according to the system has changed after the ball has snapped, he panics & dumps the ball off....

there is no real progression in routes you should go to if your initial look isn't there...

Another thing is...Kubiak doesn't really beat defenses with formationing...like you often see manning do...where are all the bunch sets? Why not put Tate & Foster on the field at the same time? He at least did that a few times this last game.

This is why i'm not all that optimistic that things will change offensively so much with a qb change....Kubiak & his system is part of the problem too.

DX-TEX
10-08-2013, 03:56 PM
Kubiak and Smith should troll the fanbase and just release Keenum for the lulz.

HTown2ATX
10-08-2013, 04:05 PM
Kubiak and Smith should troll the fanbase and just release Keenum for the lulz.

Problem is they are already trolling the fan base keeping poopy pants due to $hitting himself at QB.

htownfan32
10-08-2013, 04:21 PM
Absolute bull****.

Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason

GuerillaBlack
10-08-2013, 04:32 PM
That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines and something bad happens as a result.

Disagree. remember that qb draw Yates did at Cincy? Kubiak would never call that with Schaub, but i bet we would see it a few times with Keenum. Plus those bootlegs would start working again with a mobile qb. Case actually has a little speed on him.

GuerillaBlack
10-08-2013, 04:37 PM
Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason

The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.

htownfan32
10-08-2013, 04:39 PM
The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.

I looked at some of his highlights.

There were some balls underthrown and others on the money. I won't say he has a noodle arm but it's certainly average. Better than floppy MS at this point, though. His ball placement on the other hand is excellent. He has just enough arm to get it there.

GoCoogs
10-08-2013, 04:45 PM
Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason

Here are some notes from the UH Pro Day:

http://blog.chron.com/sportsupdate/2012/03/quick-notes-from-houstons-pro-day/

Houston quarterback Case Keenum revealed that he suffered a strained hamstring on his second attempt at the 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine last month in Indianapolis. He said he didn’t want to make excuses, which is why he decided to still throw, but it clearly affected him.

“I strained my hamstring on the second 40,” Keenum said on Monday after his performance at UH’s pro day. “I’m not a track guy or 400-hurdler or haven’t qualified for the Olympics but I think I was trying to at that point, trying to run a 4.3. But strained my hamstring on the second 40 and it kind of put me in a funk. I went over to see the trainers and (quarterbacks) were already warming up throwing. I’m not going to make excuses and I didn’t that day. I said ‘I”m out here, I’m going to throw.’ But it definitely wasn’t me at my best.”

There were some reports questioning Keenum’s arm strength after his combine performance and he said it was important to show his true ability on Monday for scouts.

“It was very important for me to show these guys that (at the combine), that was not me,” Keenum said. “I have very high standards for myself and I believe in my abilities tremendously and I think I wasn’t at my best. I wanted to go out there and compete. That’s what I do. That’s where you can get into the whole touchy situation of ‘Do you throw or not throw.’ But my whole mindset has been, ‘I am who I am, so let’s do it, let’s roll.’”

On Monday, he didn’t show any issues throwing. He threw the ball with good velocity, particularly on the out routes, and he showed the ability to get it downfield. I had one scout tell me that he felt Keenum had “above average” arm strength.

Keenum’s assessment of his day:

“We were a little off on a few routes and not quite as accurate as I’d like to be,” he said. “As far as pushing the ball down the field, I thought the ball was coming out of my hands fairly well….I thought we got a few good throws in there. Not my best day, but I’m a perfectionist and I always feel like I can do better.”

Keenum did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.31 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.89 seconds and bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times.

Lurvinator11
10-08-2013, 04:46 PM
I'm on the Keenum bandwagon.

Keenum

Keenum

Keenum!

Premier
10-08-2013, 06:00 PM
The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.

when i think of a big arm, i think about those 10 yard curls and coverage beaters in the redzone from x & goal. what pro qb cant hurl it 50 yards? can he deliver the ball without a db jumping all over his throws in the middle of the field. the foootage on youtbe is him going deep with no dbs in sight.. would like to see footage of him droppin back and delivering the football.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 06:11 PM
don't matter what all the case keenum skeptics think. at this point, we're all curious and unless he has a shot, we won't know.

case is and will always be a winner until proven otherwise.

I'd bet big money Texans win if Case plays this Sunday. And if he played the 49er's, you'd see more than 3 pts. Guaranteed.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 06:13 PM
http://i.imgur.com/2L0y5Zw.png

I still remember you saying that case will never start in the pros. gonna be funny when you become one of us. lol

The1ApplePie
10-08-2013, 06:50 PM
Kubiak and Smith should troll the fanbase and just release Keenum for the lulz.

Maybe Kubes learned from his buddy Elway about starting a joke QB.

I seriously think Elway started Tebow to

1. Shut the fans up and show them he sucked
2. Tank games to get a QB in the draft
3. Make some easy money for the shoddy product.

Instead Tebow pulled the classic "Springtime for Hitler" and started winning games.

DX-TEX
10-08-2013, 06:58 PM
I still remember you saying that case will never start in the pros. gonna be funny when you become one of us. lol

I said he isn't a starter in the league and I still believe that.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 07:06 PM
I said he isn't a starter in the league and I still believe that.

fair enough if that's your opinion, but I do remember reading that case would never amount to anything in the NFL.

We'll wait and see. Do you want Schaub to start? or TJ then?

NCTexan
10-08-2013, 07:23 PM
fair enough if that's your opinion,

Not really an opinion. He's never started in the NFL.

:kitten:

HJam72
10-08-2013, 07:30 PM
He's our best shot.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 07:56 PM
Not really an opinion. He's never started in the NFL.

:kitten:

he also said that he'll never amount to anything in the NFL.

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 07:56 PM
He's our best shot.

And this is based on?????????????

kingtexan
10-08-2013, 08:01 PM
And this is based on?????????????

Watching his skill set compared to Matt and Yates skill set.

He is our best QB talent wise.

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 08:06 PM
Watching his skill set compared to Matt and Yates skill set.

He is our best QB talent wise.

I honestly believe he and yates have about the same skill set...Yates' arm is stronger too imo..

drs23
10-08-2013, 08:12 PM
I've been in the Keenum Koolaid drinking club for a while now. :doot:

Thorn, I see that being an empty cup at this point. We've gotta wait on Schaub to flame out (done in our eyes, not GK's) then Yates who's only done mop up to date before Keenum would ever be afforded a chance.

Unless Unc Bob has a closed door meeting and we all know he doesn't meddle.

Oh well....

CretorFrigg
10-08-2013, 08:14 PM
nah, yates doesnt have keenum's feel for the QB position. Yates has many deer in the headlights looks and locks on to one receiver far too often. Yates also struggles in the poise department. Complete opposite of Case who has all the intangibles in his favor.

I don't care who starts as long it's not Schaub. I'd like to see Yates or Keenum on the field as our starting QB, not because I think they're the next Tom Brady, but because they're a better option than Matt Schaub.

With that said, there's no way you can definitively say Keenum has all the intangibles, especially since he went undrafted. If Keenum is the world beater everyone's making him out to be, he would've been a first round draft pick. He might be a diamond in the rough, but it's amazing how you are making him out to be the Texan's savior. He's got some question marks if he starts, and so does Yates.

I would love to see what Keenum has to offer for us. I hope all of you are right, and that he's our next Arian Foster. I'm just tired of seeing Schaub play and fail miserably. I'm tired of 3rd and long and Matt throwing underneath for a gain of 2. I'm sick of Matt's lack of arm strength, mobility, and good decision making. It's pretty difficult to downgrade from there.

Texan in Japan
10-08-2013, 08:21 PM
As I said in another thread, I think Case Keenum gives us the best shot at providing the leadership/spark we need to turn this around. GK let's do it brother, it can't be any worse and at least it should be entertaining.

I don't think I can watch another game of Schaub playing a wet noodle when a defensive player's shadow is close to him. The dude has lost his confidence and it's really sad to see him on the field. GK, have pity on the man. Smith should trade him to CLE, BUFF or wherever for whatever. Maybe a fresh start will help his mental state.

Go Case!

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 08:28 PM
nah, yates doesnt have keenum's feel for the QB position. Yates has many deer in the headlights looks and locks on to one receiver far too often. Yates also struggles in the poise department. Complete opposite of Case who has all the intangibles in his favor. Yates does have a slightly stronger arm but case is much accurate than yates and has better ball placement.

Wow...you got all that from preseason games huh?

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 09:19 PM
no, i got it from watching all of TJ yates games as starter including this preseason along with some of keenum's games his last couple years in houston along with his preseason play. Yates has accuracy problem, you can see that with his propensity to throw high and not being able to read WR progressions fast enough. Case excells at WR progressions because he worked with a spread offense with multiple receivers.

have you found that post of your you claim was saying the same thing i was saying or are you still putting up a charade?

U still trying to beat your chest thinking u came up with some grand revelation that anyone with any common sense and knowledge of the team couldn't put together?

Lol, you're downplaying yates' abilities, nfl experience and accomplishments in favor of a guy who hasnt even taken a regular season snap at qb in the nfl.

1 guy led this team to playoffs in a pressure packed situation, has 1 playoff win under his belt and performed admirably as a rookie pressed into action at the last 2nd......the other guy just made the active roster......Yeah....and this great analysis is based on a few college football games and preseason games to boot.

Tell me how im supposed to take u serious as a knowledgable football head again?

Stop stalking me "breh"... You're only gonna keep making youself look silly.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-08-2013, 09:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4LpCbVTp-g

76Texan
10-08-2013, 09:54 PM
Playmaker

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E4GL4poAr30

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 09:59 PM
Yeah...b/c he didn't make plays in that bengals regular season game....and he didnt lead that game winning drive against the Bengals in the regular season to get us in the playoffs.....:rolleyes:

he may not have led in the traditional sense, but he stepped up and made plays and led when he had to...which is all the team needed him to do at that point....and like i said, he was a rookie....

In any event, it's still more than Keenum has done to this point.

Lol at me reaching. How am i reaching when i'm basing my analysis of the situation on something someone has actually done in the actual setting and you're basing yours off amatuer play and what can only be described as "simulations"?

DX-TEX
10-08-2013, 10:01 PM
he also said that he'll never amount to anything in the NFL.

He wont. Some of you are thinking he is Brady 2.0.That type of situation happens once in a lifetime. Ill go with the odds.

thunderkyss
10-08-2013, 10:47 PM
You know you got it bad when your third string QB is the most popular player in town.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 10:48 PM
He wont. Some of you are thinking he is Brady 2.0.That type of situation happens once in a lifetime. Ill go with the odds.

having someone even become an effective backup and being someone in the NFL is quiet different than not being anything at all.

who said he was brady? even case fans aren't claiming that. if case put up numbers from your college, you'd be a case bandwagon fan. at this point, we just want someone better than today's Schaub.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 10:52 PM
He wont. Some of you are thinking he is Brady 2.0.That type of situation happens once in a lifetime. Ill go with the odds.

well you're already kinda wrong, cuz he's on the team and not on the practice squad. plus he's making more money than last year. and he'll one day start. I'll go with those odds.

htownfan32
10-08-2013, 10:58 PM
well you're already kinda wrong, cuz he's on the team and not on the practice squad. plus he's making more money than last year. and he'll one day start. I'll go with those odds.

What on earth makes you think this? If Kubiak does bench Schaub, it'll be Yates who takes the start. And unless Yates pulls a Leinart, Keenum won't get a chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6sA-pWv9sc

^ have we forgotten this already? Keep in mind had Jacoby not been held, that ball was placed 100% perfectly for a TD pass. No way Matt Schaub makes that accurate of a pass.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 11:07 PM
What on earth makes you think this? If Kubiak does bench Schaub, it'll be Yates who takes the start. And unless Yates pulls a Leinart, Keenum won't get a chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6sA-pWv9sc

^ have we forgotten this already? Keep in mind had Jacoby not been held, that ball was placed 100% perfectly for a TD pass. No way Matt Schaub makes that accurate of a pass.

i'm not talking about now. if anything I think MS will get the start.

htownfan32
10-08-2013, 11:11 PM
i'm not talking about now. if anything I think MS will get the start.

Okay, even then... what makes you think he'll be anything better than a good backup? College highlights against (who was that, Rice?) inferior competition?

I think Case Keenum has shown me enough to be at most 2b to TJ Yates' 2a. However, since the Case lobby here has been calling for him to start, I have too, because if he does have the magical unseen talent he'll win us games and I will be happy, and if he sucks the Case lobby will quiet down and I'll be happy.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 11:15 PM
Okay, even then... what makes you think he'll be anything better than a good backup? College highlights against (who was that, Rice?) inferior competition?

I think Case Keenum has shown me enough to be at most 2b to TJ Yates' 2a. However, since the Case lobby here has been calling for him to start, I have too, because if he does have the magical unseen talent he'll win us games and I will be happy, and if he sucks the Case lobby will quiet down and I'll be happy.

you want to go back to college? what his last game against a top 5 defense in penn st was murdered. at this point, college is irrelevant.

Kubiak has always said great things about Keenum. He's got better footwork, reads on defenses, better arm, killer instinct, more accurate than today's schaub. Case is also a winner. There is no unseen talent, there's a reason why he was kept on the team and not sent to the practice squad.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 11:16 PM
Okay, even then... what makes you think he'll be anything better than a good backup? College highlights against (who was that, Rice?) inferior competition?

I think Case Keenum has shown me enough to be at most 2b to TJ Yates' 2a. However, since the Case lobby here has been calling for him to start, I have too, because if he does have the magical unseen talent he'll win us games and I will be happy, and if he sucks the Case lobby will quiet down and I'll be happy.

looking at your stats. you like the aggies?

htownfan32
10-08-2013, 11:17 PM
you want to go back to college? what his last game against a top 5 defense in penn st was murdered. at this point, college is irrelevant.

Kubiak has always said great things about Keenum. He's got better footwork, reads on defenses, better arm, killer instinct, more accurate than today's schaub. Case is also a winner. There is no unseen talent, there's a reason why he was kept on the team and not sent to the practice squad.

I find these two statements hard to reconcile, given that Keenum has never played a regular season game. If college is irrelevant, how was he a winner?

htownfan32
10-08-2013, 11:18 PM
looking at your stats. you like the aggies?

I'm an A&M student.

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 11:22 PM
I'm an A&M student.

I ask because for many years (07), I've watched coach sumlin talk big things about Case. Many many interviews on how Case is going to make an impact on the NFL. He is a reason why Case was successful and broke almost every NCAA record.

Brisco_County
10-08-2013, 11:23 PM
Many of you have already seen this, but it needs to linked in this thread too. It's Skip Bayless -- who I normally disagree with -- delivering a nearly perfect argument for why Keenum should be started over Yates. He also acknowledges the unlikelihood of it happening.

Start at 4:40, though the entire thing is worth watching.

Link (http://www.sportsoverdose.com/video/do-texans-need-to-make-qb-change-2.html).

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 11:23 PM
I find these two statements hard to reconcile, given that Keenum has never played a regular season game. If college is irrelevant, how was he a winner?

you made a statement about competition (Rice). I made a comment about his last game which was a SEC opponent. that's all. do the research yourself.

phantom17
10-08-2013, 11:26 PM
I would like to see Case start! I didn't like T.J. last week. IMO, Schaub will continue to regress & should be cut next season. The Schaub era is done, unfortunately. Immobile QB with a noodle arm doesn't belong in the NFL! :kubepalm:

htownfan32
10-08-2013, 11:33 PM
you made a statement about competition (Rice). I made a comment about his last game which was a SEC opponent. that's all. do the research yourself.

Penn St.?

Regardless, taking into account Brisco's video, the reasons offered by Skip Bayless are precisely why I want Keenum to start. I don't see it. I'm sorry, but I just don't. I see good decision making and several other good skills, but quite a few knocks as well. But if he really and truly does have what UH and Case fans have been making such noise about, it'll show. If he doesn't, we're no worse off than we were before.

It's just my opinion that at the end of the day, Keenum won't be the savior everyone thinks he is. Do I want him to be? Sure. If Keenum took this team around to the playoffs you bet I'll buy a Keenum jersey. Will he be? Don't think so.

EVOLVIST
10-08-2013, 11:35 PM
Also, God is with Case Keenum...not these heathen Rams and Jaguars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDy6OBlfzyM

I mean, if God is for us, then to hell with our enemies, right?

legacy_gt
10-08-2013, 11:37 PM
Penn St.?

Regardless, taking into account Brisco's video, the reasons offered by Skip Bayless are precisely why I want Keenum to start. I don't see it. I'm sorry, but I just don't. I see good decision making and several other good skills, but quite a few knocks as well. But if he really and truly does have what UH and Case fans have been making such noise about, it'll show. If he doesn't, we're no worse off than we were before.

It's just my opinion that at the end of the day, Keenum won't be the savior everyone thinks he is. Do I want him to be? Sure. If Keenum took this team around to the playoffs you bet I'll buy a Keenum jersey. Will he be? Don't think so.

you can read the other thread on johhny vs case. very interesting. even comparing how case's stats were better than manziel against bcs teams.

i'm not saying case will be the savior today, but I hope one day he gets a shot. and when he does, I know he'll make a lot more people believers. until then, it's all open.

leebigeztx
10-08-2013, 11:58 PM
this is a complete myth. there are many that have witnessed during preseason and practice, including the coach, that keenum's arm strength is fine. among the 3, case has a stronger arm than both tj and schaub.

you want to see a bad arm these days, look at matt. I've never seen such bad velocity and easy reads in my support for MS all these years.

TJ has the best arm of the 3 and its not even close.

legacy_gt
10-09-2013, 12:07 AM
TJ has the best arm of the 3 and its not even close.

I disagree.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-11-30/texans-tj-yates-athletic-poised-with-limited-skill-set

waynegg
10-09-2013, 12:10 AM
Schaub's outta the picture.....i get that

what you're not taking into account is that most of these new age qb's who aren't being sheltered are 1st round talents.....i.e. guys that have their coaches pressed by fans & owners more often than not to mold their offenses to thier skill sets...the lone exceptions are Wilson & Kaepernick. And as much as a game changer Keenum has the potential to be, does anyone think Kubiak is gonna mold or change his offense to fully take advantage of Keenum's abilities? Nope. If he were the heir apparent to Drew Brees in that system....i'd agree with you. That's the type of system he comes from & Peyton would be sure to carry him & adapt...here with this coaching staff...nope.

Lastly, people keep saying the bolded but the new rules & the explosion of offense still aren't preventing qb's from failing at about the same clips as they were back when young guys were primarily sheltered. See Newton, Bradford....Weeden.

Apart from that....what's the rush? Rodgers sat on the bench for like 3-4 years before he got his shot..I think we all agree that it worked out okay for the Pack & Rodgers had immensely more talent than Keenum when he came out.


See Warner

DocBar
10-09-2013, 12:13 AM
See WarnerCase closed. Pun intended.

Mr teX
10-09-2013, 12:18 AM
See Warner

Not sure what you're saying here...warner got his shot by default...green went down with an injury and warner was pressed into duty...ok it worked out for him....but tell the whole story....warner had been cut by like 3-4 teams and was bagging groceries before he got his shot with the rams.....playing the percentages, he's also likely the exception, not the rule when it comes to these situations..

Brisco_County
10-09-2013, 12:21 AM
TJ has the best arm of the 3 and its not even close.

This is a 44 yard pass that Keenum throws effortlessly while running forward.

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Qqc0z6tnE).

There is hardly any wind-up. He doesn't have to plant his feet. He just slings it in a half second while running.

Texecutioner
10-09-2013, 12:31 AM
TJ has the best arm of the 3 and its not even close.

Please go watch Keemun before saying stuff like that. Keemun is by far a more prolific passer then Yates. He will attempt to put passes in windows that Yates wouldn't think about trying.

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 12:37 AM
Please go watch Keemun before saying stuff like that. Keemun is by far a more prolific passer then Yates. He will attempt to put passes in windows that Yates wouldn't think about trying.

Accuracy =/= arm, see Joe Flacco. I like Keenum's decision making and accuracy. However, in many of his college highlight reels, he was throwing to wide open WRs. I don't think our WRs here are going to be that open.

I seem to recall a TJ Yates pass thrown in the game against Atlanta where he threw one to Andre where the CB was glued all over him to Andre's 5 o'clock but the ball was placed within arm's extent of Andre's 10 o'clock. There was no way the CB could get his hands on it. That was perfect ball placement.

Mr teX
10-09-2013, 12:37 AM
Please go watch Keemun before saying stuff like that. Keemun is by far a more prolific passer then Yates. He will attempt to put passes in windows that Yates wouldn't think about trying.

Yeah...you know who else does that? Jay Cutler....that's not always a good thing bro..

leebigeztx
10-09-2013, 12:42 AM
Please go watch Keemun before saying stuff like that. Keemun is by far a more prolific passer then Yates. He will attempt to put passes in windows that Yates wouldn't think about trying.

As I stated before, I'm at camp on the sidelines while all 3 qbs are doing mirror drills. The velocity of yates balls was far and away superior to schaub and case. After practice,I was with pat kirwan and wilcots when they were doing the interviews for sirius. Met jj,schaub,meyers,quiz,j-joe and the who crew. Kirwan and wilcots said they didn't know yates arm was that much stronger than the other guys.

Does that mean tj is the answer?No,I simply stated that when you're trying to open up the offense and make the defense defend more of the field, tj has the arm to do it. Not to mention when pressed into duty without andre he played ok and made some plays.

waynegg
10-09-2013, 02:55 AM
TJ irrefutably has the arm, but that's not the entire equation is it? It means nothing if you can chunk a pig downfield 80 yards if the pass isn't accurate. That more than anything is what puts Keenum in front of TJ as far as I'm concerned. Go back and watch him thread the needle on short and mid range plays. See how he hit his receivers dead perfect, on full tilt, and was able to put the ball where only they could get to it. Then watch those two immaculate connections to Jean, lofting the ball around 50 yards (as the bird flys) both times.

The only place where he comes up short is that he's a bit, well, short.

Vance87
10-09-2013, 03:28 AM
This talk of Keenum "not having an NFL arm" is straight up STUPID.

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

Colin Kaepernick - 59 mph (said to have a big arm)
Andy Dalton - 56 mph (Red Rifle, right?)
Cam Newton - 56 mph (said to have a big arm)
Joe Flacco - 55 mph (said to have a cannon)
Case Keenum - 55 mph (WEAK ASS ARM)
TJ Yates - 52 mph (WAY past Keenum in arm strength!)

*Bangs head against the wall*

And wasn't Case injured at the Combine or something? JEESUS.

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 03:54 AM
This talk of Keenum "not having an NFL arm" is straight up STUPID.

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

Colin Kaepernick - 59 mph (said to have a big arm)
Andy Dalton - 56 mph (Red Rifle, right?)
Cam Newton - 56 mph (said to have a big arm)
Joe Flacco - 55 mph (said to have a cannon)
Case Keenum - 55 mph (WEAK ASS ARM)
TJ Yates - 52 mph (WAY past Keenum in arm strength!)

*Bangs head against the wall*

And wasn't Case injured at the Combine or something? JEESUS.

Show me where it shows up on game tape where Keenum drops the ball in the hands of a receiver completely covered deep. I've seen TJ make that throw, I've never seen Keenum make it.

Edit: the fact that some big arm QBs have crappy speeds (Chad Henne, Mike Glennon, Landry Jones) shows me just how valuable this statistic measure is. I'm not surprised it's not done by anyone else at the combine.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-09-2013, 03:56 AM
Show me where it shows up on game tape where Keenum drops the ball in the hands of a receiver completely covered deep. I've seen TJ make that throw, I've never seen Keenum make it.




:55 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4LpCbVTp-g

waynegg
10-09-2013, 03:58 AM
Accuracy =/= arm, see Joe Flacco. I like Keenum's decision making and accuracy. However, in many of his college highlight reels, he was throwing to wide open WRs. I don't think our WRs here are going to be that open.

I seem to recall a TJ Yates pass thrown in the game against Atlanta where he threw one to Andre where the CB was glued all over him to Andre's 5 o'clock but the ball was placed within arm's extent of Andre's 10 o'clock. There was no way the CB could get his hands on it. That was perfect ball placement.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/HIGHLIGHTS-Keenum-to-Jean/ef9d5b14-2a63-4c2e-bb66-8d21fbde2246

Was it that pretty? Case did this twice and a crap ton of thread the needle on shorts and mids.

I think most people don't pay attention to preseason at all.

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 04:06 AM
http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/HIGHLIGHTS-Keenum-to-Jean/ef9d5b14-2a63-4c2e-bb66-8d21fbde2246

Was it that pretty? Case did this twice and a crap ton of thread the needle on shorts and mids.

I think most people don't pay attention to preseason at all.

Very nice pass. 27 yards?

TJ did it against the starting Atlanta secondary, and it was 50 yarder.

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:09 AM
This never gets old...

Let's let Pythagoras help you

A^2 + B^2 = C^2

(25.665 x 25.665) + (39.5 x 39.5) = 47.1 yards in the air.

(25.665 x 25.665) + (39 x 39) = 46.6 yards in the air.

Math is good!

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 04:09 AM
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/12/4/2610431/texans-vs-falcons-andre-johnson-grabs-a-50-yard-bomb-sets-up-t-j/in/2374119
The video of the pass I'm referring to.

Also, Waynegg, what on earth are you talking about?

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:10 AM
That's basic math. Keenum threw the ball from the center of the field on the 34.5 yard line to one yard away from the sideline and 5 yards deep in the end zone. That's a distance of 39.5 yards. The field is 53.33 yards wide. Half of that is 26.665, subtract a yard off that for how far away from the line Jean was and you get 25.665

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:12 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 04:12 AM
Thanks. Care to do the math on the TJ Yates pass for me?

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:14 AM
Thanks. Care to do the math on the TJ Yates pass for me?

I got no video from your link, but if you give me the specifics, sure.

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 04:16 AM
I got no video from your link, but if you give me the specifics, sure.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/12/4/2610431/texans-vs-falcons-andre-johnson-grabs-a-50-yard-bomb-sets-up-t-j/in/2374119

Posted wrong link earlier.

Sigma
10-09-2013, 04:20 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem

((25.665 x 25.665) + (39.5 x 39.5))^0.5 = 47.1 yards in the air.

((25.665 x 25.665) + (39 x 39))^0.5 = 46.6 yards in the air.

there you go :D

you could argue the ball does more yard than that tho, given it goes up and then down...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_the_crow_flies

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:23 AM
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/12/4/2610431/texans-vs-falcons-andre-johnson-grabs-a-50-yard-bomb-sets-up-t-j/in/2374119

Posted wrong link earlier.

In air flight, started and ended 2yards off the right hash mark, so a straight line. Left his hand on the Texans 41 and received at the Falcons 14 = 47 yards in the air, so virtually identical other than be slightly over thrown. Very slightly.

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 04:24 AM
In air flight, started and ended 2yards off the right hash mark, so a straight line. Left his hand on the Texans 41 and received at the Falcons 14 = 47 yards in the air, so virtually identical other than be slightly over thrown. Very slightly.

Right. Also, we must be watching two different videos, as TJ is behind the Texans 40 yard mark in the video I posted.

Remind me, did Case throw his pass against a starting NFL defense?

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:28 AM
Right.

Remind me, did Case throw his pass against a starting NFL defense?

Mostly (cowboys, not dolphins). The cover man wasn't. Doesn't change the accuracy or the length of the pass. He got it off in 2 seconds and our offensive line is keeping the defense off schaub for 3+seconds 98% of the time.

Yeah, I crunch numbers all game long.

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 04:32 AM
Mostly (cowboys, not dolphins). The cover man wasn't. Doesn't change the accuracy or the length of the pass. He got it off in 2 seconds and our offensive line is keeping the defense off schaub for 3+seconds 98% of the time.

Yeah, I crunch numbers all game long.

It was a pretty pass, I'm not arguing that. It's not what TJ Yates can do, though.

Also, as I edited my post to reflect earlier... the LOS was the Texans 41 and TJ threw behind at the 38, possibly the 39.

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 04:39 AM
Sigh. Well, whatever the truth is (and it'll only be known once Keenum has been in the real game), it'll hopefully come out. That's why I want him to start. We can figure out what we have, and whether or not it's what we thought it was all along (Case is a backup) or that Case is the second coming of Tom Brady. I'm fine with either option.

Public announcement: Case turns out to be that guy, I get a Keenum jersey at the end of the year and post pics. I'll gladly eat crow if he's that person, because it means good things for the team. In my opinion, though, he's not that guy.

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:44 AM
Sigh. Well, whatever the truth is (and it'll only be known once Keenum has been in the real game), it'll hopefully come out. That's why I want him to start. We can figure out what we have, and whether or not it's what we thought it was all along (Case is a backup) or that Case is the second coming of Tom Brady. I'm fine with either option.

Public announcement: Case turns out to be that guy, I get a Keenum jersey at the end of the year and post pics. I'll gladly eat crow if he's that person, because it means good things for the team. In my opinion, though, he's not that guy.

Same deal with TJ from me!

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:46 AM
Either way, at least we can agree schaub ain't it!

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 04:49 AM
Either way, at least we can agree schaub ain't it!

True that, man. At the end of this day, whatever helps the team win is what I want to happen.

Sigma
10-09-2013, 04:55 AM
Either way, at least we can agree schaub ain't it!

so if schaub turn it around and gets us to the playoffs and more noone will buy his jersey?

poor matt :bored:

waynegg
10-09-2013, 04:58 AM
so if schaub turn it around and gets us to the playoffs and more noone will buy his jersey?

poor matt :bored:

Charcoal is cheaper and flavors the meat better. This isn't schaub's first year to suck. Nothing would aggravate me more than for him to turn it around at this point, because they'd probably up his contract and we'd have unfortold more years of mediocrity.

Texn4life
10-09-2013, 08:17 AM
I think at some point the Texans have to find out whether the QB of the future is on the team this year going into the draft. You don't want to waste a pick if you don't need one so Yates or Keenum need to be given a real shot. I'm not a Yates fan, but I'm willing to give him a chance. Case intrigues me so I'd like to see some of him too. If Schaub keeps throwing away games then we'll be out of playoff contention soon anyway.

RunningTheSouth
10-09-2013, 10:45 AM
Time to see Case in real game action.:texflag:

Hervoyel
10-09-2013, 12:03 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/12/4/2610431/texans-vs-falcons-andre-johnson-grabs-a-50-yard-bomb-sets-up-t-j/in/2374119
The video of the pass I'm referring to.

Also, Waynegg, what on earth are you talking about?

I remember that. Nice pass and thanks for the link. Never get tired of seeing stuff like that.

Having said that if you don't think Keenum could make that same throw you're just not paying attention or being intentionally obtuse because you got a problem with the boy.

I got a UH avatar on because I'm a fan of Keenum but I really don't care which one starts Sunday as long as it isn't Matt.

Oz Texan
10-09-2013, 10:54 PM
Accuracy =/= arm, see Joe Flacco. I like Keenum's decision making and accuracy. However, in many of his college highlight reels, he was throwing to wide open WRs. I don't think our WRs here are going to be that open.



You start making defenses worry about us going deep then more open guys will be noticed. Right now they don't and don't have to play much man just an under zone because they know we will go deep one time a game as it stands now.

Also if you watch Keenum does not focus on one guy during the play. He finds the open guy.

Texan_Bill
10-09-2013, 11:24 PM
SMH!!!

This coming from someone that enjoyed all 16 years Case spent at UH!

Case looked great against 3rd teamers with teams showing "vanilla" defenses.

The negative aside, those that criticize Case for being a "system QB" and has a "weak arm" are full of shyte!! Case can make any throw needed.

Is he ready to be "the Guy"??? Hell no!! NOT NO, BUT HELL NO!!!!

That said, I like him on this roster.

AND Maybe........... Just maybe, someday!!

JB
10-09-2013, 11:29 PM
SMH!!!
Is he ready to be "the Guy"??? Hell no!! NOT NO, BUT HELL NO!!!!

Tell us how you really feel

Blake
10-10-2013, 08:51 AM
Thread should have been titled the case for Case... but whatever.

Sigma
10-10-2013, 09:21 AM
Thread should have been titled the case for Case... but whatever.

It's not like I don't believe in Schaub, but I would bench him anyways. Just in case.

kingtexan
10-10-2013, 11:19 AM
There is a case to be made that we should activate Case, just in case.

badboy
10-10-2013, 01:34 PM
I think Kubiak is going with the QB he thinks will offer best chance to win and worry about future QB later. If MS does not get better Gary can then use last half of season to try out Keenum and Yates.

BullNation4Life
10-11-2013, 11:16 AM
Its taken me awhile to come to this but I can no longer see a light at the end of the Matt Schaub tunnel. I am endorsing change in the form of Case Keenum, who seems to be the only QB on the roster who has any chance of being a true game changer. In that spirit, I have now changed my avatar to reflect Case's alma mater, who is with me?

I see a light at the end of Matt's tunnel and it's a train to get his sorry carcase out of this city...

I would like to see what Keenum could do with the starters. I already know what Yates can do but I think Keenum wold be that spsrk plug the team needs...

Thorn
10-11-2013, 11:26 AM
I see a light at the end of Matt's tunnel and it's a train to get his sorry carcase out of this city...

The Express Schaub Train to Hell is now boarding! Each passenger will be given a free football to run through a goal line in the bar car.

DX-TEX
10-11-2013, 02:59 PM
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli 1h
Shane Lechler will be the #Texans emergency QB with Owen Daniels out. "Or I might go in there, how about that?" Kubiak says.



TX Cleaver ‏@TXCleaver 19m
If I'm reading these tweets right, the Texans QB depth chart used to be Schaub, Yates, Daniels, Lechler, Keenum.

Kubiak trolling the entire Texans fan base. Why even carry 3 QBs then?

htownfan32
10-11-2013, 03:23 PM
Kubiak trolling the entire Texans fan base. Why even carry 3 QBs then?

If Keenum is inactive, then Daniels would go in after Yates. If Keenum is active, Daniels would go in after Keenum.

Schaub Yates Keenum OD Lechler. Nothing to see here, carry on.

9baller
10-11-2013, 04:14 PM
If Keenum is inactive, then Daniels would go in after Yates. If Keenum is active, Daniels would go in after Keenum.

Schaub Yates Keenum OD Lechler. Nothing to see here, carry on.

I thought that there is a rule that says if your #1 and #2 QBs are injured your #3 can play even if he isn't on the gameday roster. Or am I wrong on this?

htownfan32
10-11-2013, 04:31 PM
I thought that there is a rule that says if your #1 and #2 QBs are injured your #3 can play even if he isn't on the gameday roster. Or am I wrong on this?

Uh... not sure. I remember people saying during the SF game that if Schaub and Yates were both knocked out Owen Daniels would have been QB

kingtexan
10-11-2013, 07:37 PM
I thought that there is a rule that says if your #1 and #2 QBs are injured your #3 can play even if he isn't on the gameday roster. Or am I wrong on this?

If you aren't active you don't play.

DX-TEX
10-11-2013, 11:51 PM
It is in Kubiaks best interest to play Case now. If he throws TJ out there now and he struggles the record get worse and the playoffs are gone. Right now we are 2-3 and still in the thick of it.

You play Case after the record is shot and he plays good the pundits will be screaming "Why did you wait?". Play him now and he struggles you still have TJ but at the same time you shut up the redbloods. If he plays good Kubiak looks like a "smart guy".

It really would be a win win for Gary.

waynegg
10-11-2013, 11:57 PM
It is in Kubiaks best interest to play Case now. If he throws TJ out there now and he struggles the record get worse and the playoffs are gone. Right now we are 2-3 and still in the thick of it.

You play Case after the record is shot and he plays good the pundits will be screaming "Why did you wait?". Play him now and he struggles you still have TJ but at the same time you shut up the redbloods. If he plays good Kubiak looks like a "smart guy".

It really would be a win win for Gary.

Winthread +1 internet for you

Texn4life
10-12-2013, 12:02 AM
It is in Kubiaks best interest to play Case now. If he throws TJ out there now and he struggles the record get worse and the playoffs are gone. Right now we are 2-3 and still in the thick of it.

You play Case after the record is shot and he plays good the pundits will be screaming "Why did you wait?". Play him now and he struggles you still have TJ but at the same time you shut up the redbloods. If he plays good Kubiak looks like a "smart guy".

It really would be a win win for Gary.

You definitely have a really good point. I think Schaub has 1 more bad game left in him. But I don't think Kubiak has the balls to make that big of a move.

thunderkyss
10-12-2013, 12:13 AM
You definitely have a really good point. I think Schaub has 1 more bad game left in him. But I don't think Kubiak has the balls to make that big of a move.

The ballsy thing to do is to stick with Schaub... much like McNair sticking with Kubiak after 6-10.

Starting Case would be the easy thing. Expectations would be dropped accordingly. If we were to make the play-offs, even 1 & done might be celebrated depending on Keenum's perceived ceiling.

If Kubiak's job was not on the line after 3 straight losses, it is now that he's decided to stay with Matt.

DX-TEX
10-12-2013, 12:19 AM
The ballsy thing to do is to stick with Schaub... much like McNair sticking with Kubiak after 6-10.

Starting Case would be the easy thing. Expectations would be dropped accordingly. If we were to make the play-offs, even 1 & done might be celebrated depending on Keenum's perceived ceiling.

If Kubiak's job was not on the line after 3 straight losses, it is now that he's decided to stay with Matt.

Should have been more clear: based on how Matt plays vs. the Rams. Personally, if the Texans win but Matt plays like bull dung then he needs to be benched

Texn4life
10-12-2013, 12:23 AM
The ballsy thing to do is to stick with Schaub... much like McNair sticking with Kubiak after 6-10.

Starting Case would be the easy thing. Expectations would be dropped accordingly. If we were to make the play-offs, even 1 & done might be celebrated depending on Keenum's perceived ceiling.

If Kubiak's job was not on the line after 3 straight losses, it is now that he's decided to stay with Matt.

Sorry, but I disagree. It would be flat out stupid to stick with Schaub with a roster like this...... Not ballsy. Going with a second year undrafted QB while the team still has a chance for the playoffs? That takes guts. It would be easy and obvious for Kubiak to go with Yates if he makes the switch. Uncle Bob was the one who backed Kubiak and Schaub after his surgery and gave him a new contract so it would be easy for him to let Kubiak off the hook for sticking with him.

bckey
10-12-2013, 08:19 AM
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.





Absolute bull****.

QFT

panamamyers
10-12-2013, 09:09 AM
I thought that there is a rule that says if your #1 and #2 QBs are injured your #3 can play even if he isn't on the gameday roster. Or am I wrong on this?

That used to be the rule. Last year they changed it to make that 46th active roster spot permanent and you could decide whether to carry the third qb or not.

Brandon420tx
10-12-2013, 09:38 AM
Case Keenums best attribute is his ball placement. It's the one thing that shines far above Schaub and Yates.

thunderkyss
10-12-2013, 12:03 PM
Case Keenums best attribute is his ball placement. It's the one thing that shines far above Schaub and Yates.

I'd like to see it against NFL starters in a game that counts. Leading a receiver is fine, but an inch too much, an inch too high & it could be an interception.

Case is going to have to adjust his game to "real" NFL speed, there's no way around it. From reading a defense, going through his progressions, leading a receiver & most importantly, shaking off a bad play.

No doubt the future looks promising, but even in Matt's slump, he's doing these things pretty well. We might not like the way it looks, but take away the INTs & he's doing a good job. Not great.... I know it. But you don't throw away "good" for what "might be" great.

That would have been like Harbaugh switching Smith for Kaepernick without ever seeing Collin in a real game. It didn't happen. We don't know if it would have happened if Alex threw 9 INTs in 5 games. We think it would have, but we don't know that.

& I know you can't say, "Take away the INTs..." they happened, I know they happened. That's not the point.

Keenum will get his shot. There's a reason they put him on the active roster. I would have done swapped them by now, but the Texans have a plan & they decided to stick with that plan for now.

cstyle42
10-12-2013, 12:27 PM
I'd like to see it against NFL starters in a game that counts. Leading a receiver is fine, but an inch too much, an inch too high & it could be an interception.

Case is going to have to adjust his game to "real" NFL speed, there's no way around it. From reading a defense, going through his progressions, leading a receiver & most importantly, shaking off a bad play.

No doubt the future looks promising, but even in Matt's slump, he's doing these things pretty well. We might not like the way it looks, but take away the INTs & he's doing a good job. Not great.... I know it. But you don't throw away "good" for what "might be" great.

That would have been like Harbaugh switching Smith for Kaepernick without ever seeing Collin in a real game. It didn't happen. We don't know if it would have happened if Alex threw 9 INTs in 5 games. We think it would have, but we don't know that.

& I know you can't say, "Take away the INTs..." they happened, I know they happened. That's not the point.

Keenum will get his shot. There's a reason they put him on the active roster. I would have done swapped them by now, but the Texans have a plan & they decided to stick with that plan for now.



Matt Schaub knows that better than any other quarterback in nfl history.

dream_team
10-12-2013, 04:00 PM
It is in Kubiaks best interest to play Case now. If he throws TJ out there now and he struggles the record get worse and the playoffs are gone. Right now we are 2-3 and still in the thick of it.

You play Case after the record is shot and he plays good the pundits will be screaming "Why did you wait?". Play him now and he struggles you still have TJ but at the same time you shut up the redbloods. If he plays good Kubiak looks like a "smart guy".

It really would be a win win for Gary.

This theory all rides in the assumption that Case will play well. What happens if he comes in now, plays poorly, and we lose the next 3-4 games due to poor QB play? But then TJ comes in and plays well to end the season?

I'll tell you what will happen. Kubiak will get fired, and Keenum's chances as a future starter in this league will be long gone.

legacy_gt
10-12-2013, 05:04 PM
case is 3rd. schaub is our savior when he gets his mind back. we'll all be chanting superbowl again. you guys wait. go schaub!

jaayteetx
10-12-2013, 05:11 PM
case is 3rd. schaub is our savior when he gets his mind back. we'll all be chanting superbowl again. you guys wait. go schaub!

Your nucking futs.

CloakNNNdagger
10-12-2013, 05:14 PM
In this case,

http://www.livelawofattraction.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Negative-Thoughts-are-good--300x280.jpg

powda
10-12-2013, 05:19 PM
This theory all rides in the assumption that Case will play well. What happens if he comes in now, plays poorly, and we lose the next 3-4 games due to poor QB play? But then TJ comes in and plays well to end the season?

I'll tell you what will happen. Kubiak will get fired, and Keenum's chances as a future starter in this league will be long gone.

Nah, because kubiak would get a job somewhere overnight and take keenum with him. Only then would we find out case is montana 2.0. Yeah, i'm that glass half empty guy.

legacy_gt
10-13-2013, 09:42 AM
I guarantee matt schaub will have a break out game playing a complete game plus everyone talking about superbowl again. book it!

don't worry, case will start in 2015.

Lucky
10-13-2013, 10:26 AM
I guarantee matt schaub will have a break out game playing a complete game plus everyone talking about superbowl again. book it!
I think everyone gets it. Let's stop re-posting in every thread, OK?

legacy_gt
10-13-2013, 03:41 PM
should have activated case today. then again, the kubiak regime stinks regardless who's behind the center.

Texn4life
10-13-2013, 03:55 PM
I said it in this thread earlier. Yates is not the answer. There may not be any QB on our roster that's the answer considering the way that all 3 phases played today, but Kubiak has to think about playing Case right now. Just do something!

midway
10-13-2013, 03:56 PM
Case should be active and should play next week because we need to see how he performs in live fire. If he's amazing then that's awesome and we use him. If he's bad we can start sending all our scouts out to follow Louisville, Clemson, Oregon, and A&M

ziggy29
10-13-2013, 03:57 PM
I said it in this thread earlier. Yates is not the answer. There may not be any QB on our roster that's the answer considering the way that all 3 phases played today, but Kubiak has to think about playing Case right now. Just do something!

On the flip side, it feels like the Kubiak game plan sets up a QB -- almost **any* QB -- for failure, and if Keenum can be an adequate NFL QB I'd rather it be with a new regime, a new start for the team and one that won't leave him the psychological baggage of failing in the Kubiak system.

legacy_gt
10-13-2013, 03:58 PM
how many long balls thrown today?

ziggy29
10-13-2013, 04:00 PM
how many long balls thrown today?

Indeed. I'm not sure Keenum's skill set is a good fit for Kubiak's "offense".

stonewhite
10-13-2013, 04:00 PM
Can someone tell me why Keenum would not be activated in todays game?

legacy_gt
10-13-2013, 04:01 PM
Indeed. I'm not sure Keenum's skill set is a good fit for Kubiak's "offense".

i'm not sure either, but i'd like to find out. case holds the clip board the best.

ziggy29
10-13-2013, 04:02 PM
Can someone tell me why Keenum would not be activated in todays game?

Partially, Kubiak's sense of loyalty -- which is a good trait to a point, until it blinds you to changes that NEED to be made. Schaub is his guy, and Yates has been his #2. As long as those two are on the roster, that will probably never change in Kubiak's mind.

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 04:02 PM
I said it in this thread earlier. Yates is not the answer. There may not be any QB on our roster that's the answer considering the way that all 3 phases played today, but Kubiak has to think about playing Case right now. Just do something!

And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?

There's no doubt that a better qb would make us a better team...but as i sit and watch the current steelers, giants, falcons and to a lesser extent packers....teams who have qb's infinitely better than schaub but have other things holding their teams back......i mean how much better are we going to be with the same bum ass head coach?

This teams issues are deeper than just 1 player...the HC and his system have been exposed and he has absolutely no answer on how to counter.

Brisco_County
10-13-2013, 04:03 PM
This game elevated Keenum's status.

ziggy29
10-13-2013, 04:04 PM
This game elevated Keenum's status.

Pretty sad when your stock goes way up even when you did nothing....

fiasco west
10-13-2013, 04:04 PM
And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?

There's no doubt that a better qb would make us a better team...but as i sit and watch the current steelers, giants, falcons and to a lesser extent packers....teams who have qb's infinitely better than schaub but have other things holding their teams back......i mean how much better are we going to be with the same bum ass head coach?

This teams issues are deeper than just 1 player.

Maybe Case reads defenses better and doesn't try that play regardless of what is called? Maybe Case tucks it and runs for 4 yards or more. Maybe Case scrambles and makes a play....

We know what Yates and Matt will do with it, but from what I've seen of Case is that he's mentally quicker than both. It WAS just preseason, but that's just what I've seen of him.

legacy_gt
10-13-2013, 04:06 PM
Pretty sad when your stock goes way up even when you did nothing....

actually case had done something in preseason, practice, and camp. he's just waiting in line.

Texn4life
10-13-2013, 04:07 PM
And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?

There's no doubt that a better qb would make us a better team...but as i sit and watch the current steelers, giants, falcons and to a lesser extent packers....teams who have qb's infinitely better than schaub but have other things holding their teams back......i mean how much better are we going to be with the same bum ass head coach?

This teams issues are deeper than just 1 player...the HC and his system have been exposed and he has absolutely no answer on how to counter.

At this point you have to realize that the Texans aren't going to the Super Bowl. Realizing that you have to evaluate your roster to make the correct decisions moving forward. If Case comes in and throws up all over himself then the team needs to look for a franchise QB in the upcoming draft. Not that hard to figure out.

EVOLVIST
10-13-2013, 04:10 PM
And when case throws his pick 6 on an out right to the TE or AJ, then what?

There's no doubt that a better qb would make us a better team...but as i sit and watch the current steelers, giants, falcons and to a lesser extent packers....teams who have qb's infinitely better than schaub but have other things holding their teams back......i mean how much better are we going to be with the same bum ass head coach?

This teams issues are deeper than just 1 player...the HC and his system have been exposed and he has absolutely no answer on how to counter.

You're right, you're right...you're right! BUT! Did you notice in the pre-season when they had Case both under center...AND...they worked him a great deal in the spread offense, especially the last pre-season game? It happened.

That means it's in the playbook. That also means that there is at least some willingness to break from the same ol' same ol'. (At least there is that hope).

Having said that, you don't dip into the Keenum pool too deeply until the season is lost, numbers wise. At 2-4 it's still not.

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 04:13 PM
At this point you have to realize that the Texans aren't going to the Super Bowl. Realizing that you have to evaluate your roster to make the correct decisions moving forward. If Case comes in and throws up all over himself then the team needs to look for a franchise QB in the upcoming draft. Not that hard to figure out.



The bolded needs to happen regardless of what case does....

fiasco west
10-13-2013, 04:13 PM
You're right, you're right...you're right! BUT! Did you notice in the pre-season when they had Case both under center...AND...they worked him a great deal in the spread offense, especially the last pre-season game? It happened.

That means it's in the playbook. That also means that there is at least some willingness to break from the same ol' same ol'. (At least there is that hope).

Having said that, you don't dip into the Keenum pool too deeply until the season is lost, numbers wise. At 2-4 it's still not.

I think it's just about time.

Matt didn't come in there and tear it up exactly. You were blown out twice now and now on a 4 game losing streak. You go out there and try the same old same old and I'm sure the players will start to roll their eyes.

What you're doing is not working, so something major has to change.

Rey
10-13-2013, 04:16 PM
Can someone tell me why Keenum would not be activated in todays game?

All 53 players can't be active. I believe only 47 or something. So the third qb usually isn't active.

legacy_gt
10-13-2013, 04:17 PM
This game elevated Keenum's status.

actually I think this game moved schaub's status (because it showed TJ threw 2 int) up and kubiak's stock went down.

Texn4life
10-13-2013, 04:17 PM
[/B]


The bolded needs to happen regardless of what case does....

What if Case comes in and lights it up? Why would you draft a QB in the first round then? You're assuming he'll come in and not play well. That's why you have to see what he has when games actually mean something. Playing him when the Texans are out of contention to me isn't a true evaluation.

htownfan32
10-13-2013, 04:17 PM
Not impressed by TJ. I would like to see Case.

legacy_gt
10-13-2013, 04:20 PM
if kubiak is going to call plays that are short and mid passes, I don't think case will have a huge problem sticking with this game plan.

EVOLVIST
10-13-2013, 04:23 PM
What if Case comes in and lights it up? Why would you draft a QB in the first round then? You're assuming he'll come in and not play well. That's why you have to see what he has when games actually mean something. Playing him when the Texans are out of contention to me isn't a true evaluation.


Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games! And evaluation is a part of the solution for next year. Because if Case DOES NOT light it up, then you are certainly out of playoff contention. I just don't think I want to go on so may ifs before the bye week.

I think we still have to think logically about this.

Otherwise, another point...all you fukers :) talking Johnny Manziel, get off that sh!t, because we already have the same player in Keenum...maybe better.

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 04:24 PM
You're right, you're right...you're right! BUT! Did you notice in the pre-season when they had Case both under center...AND...they worked him a great deal in the spread offense, especially the last pre-season game? It happened.

That means it's in the playbook. That also means that there is at least some willingness to break from the same ol' same ol'. (At least there is that hope).

Having said that, you don't dip into the Keenum pool too deeply until the season is lost, numbers wise. At 2-4 it's still not.



We've seen spread formations from gary's playbook....matter fact, some people have said its when schaub has looked his best..but there's a reason for that...it's easier to read defenses in spread formations. But there's also a reason we dont run it them that often or unless we have to......its b/c we cant block anyone consistently, gary's conservative as hell and b/c it leaves your qb vulnerable. And even though Keenum is faster than every qb ahead of him, he's not running away from LB's or even some d-linemen like that....he couldnt do it in college consistently, what makes people think he's gonna be able to do it in the nfl consistently....the system in place will likely put him him the same situation tat Schaub and Yates were in..predictable playcalling and no discipline will do that.

fiasco west
10-13-2013, 04:25 PM
if kubiak is going to call plays that are short and mid passes, I don't think case will have a huge problem sticking with this game plan.

Agreed.

If the routes are short then the ball has to go. Yates and Schaub have that second or so of indecision that I just didn't see with Case.

ziggy29
10-13-2013, 04:27 PM
Agreed.

If the routes are short then the ball has to go. Yates and Schaub have that second or so of indecision that I just didn't see with Case.

True that. By the time Schaub and Yates finish their checkdowns, the open receiver in the flat no longer has much room to run after the catch. Compare the Texans passes in the flat (short of first down yardage) to what the Rams did, or to what other teams have done. Most other teams have a lot more YAC than the Texans do, whose receivers are almost always immediately tackled. This is because the defense is seeing the play develop and has a couple seconds to close on the receiver before the ball is delivered. A decisive QB with a quick release could help that dink-dunk checkdown stuff actually work.

Texn4life
10-13-2013, 04:29 PM
Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games! And evaluation is a part of the solution for next year. Because if Case DOES NOT light it up, then you are certainly out of playoff contention. I just don't think I want to go on so may ifs before the bye week.

I think we still have to think logically about this.

Otherwise, another point...all you fukers :) talking Johnny Manziel, get off that sh!t, because we already have the same player in Keenum...maybe better.

Matt Flynn is a product of a false evaluation. Hell, even Orlovsky beat the Texans when the game didn't mean anything. Its a different ballgame when there is actually pressure on the QB IMO. The Texans aren't a playoff contender. The sooner fans realize that the sooner we can understand that some crucial decisions need to be made moving forward.

EVOLVIST
10-13-2013, 04:30 PM
We've seen spread formations from gary's playbook....matter fact, some people have said its when schaub has looked his best..but there's a reason for that...it's easier to read defenses in spread formations. But there's also a reason we dont run it them that often or unless we have to......its b/c we cant block anyone consistently, gary's conservative as hell and b/c it leaves your qb vulnerable. And even though Keenum is faster than every qb ahead of him, he's not running away from LB's or even some d-linemen like that....he couldnt do it in college consistently, what makes people think he's gonna be able to do it in the nfl consistently....the system in place will likely put him him the same situation tat Schaub and Yates were in..predictable playcalling and no discipline will do that.

Faster with his fee, but also faster with his release, which makes a big, BIG difference in how the spread is run. There's no way Schaub and/or Yates can run the spread like Case can.

ziggy29
10-13-2013, 04:30 PM
Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games!

Not if you are the 2011 Colts. You are Sucking for Luck.

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 04:34 PM
Agreed.

If the routes are short then the ball has to go. Yates and Schaub have that second or so of indecision that I just didn't see with Case.

Watch the games man, most of these ints and pick 6's are coming off 3 step drops by the qb.....meaning there isnt much "reading" that has to be done & the ball is coming out just about as fast as it can. So its not mattering how fast the ball is coming out...teams are sitting on the routes. Hell 3 of the pick 6's have come exclusively off out routes. They know its coming and they are driving hard on them.

NastyNate
10-13-2013, 04:42 PM
Well, sure it is! You're still looking to win games! And evaluation is a part of the solution for next year. Because if Case DOES NOT light it up, then you are certainly out of playoff contention. I just don't think I want to go on so may ifs before the bye week.

I think we still have to think logically about this.

Otherwise, another point...all you fukers :) talking Johnny Manziel, get off that sh!t, because we already have the same player in Keenum...maybe better.

Pretty much the same player except I'd argue Case is more protective of the ball. Both 6'1", both 4.7 40' times, spread offense under Sumlin, not sure how people keep saying Keenum isn't the guy when they haven't seen him in a NFL regular season game.

fiasco west
10-13-2013, 04:48 PM
Watch the games man, most of these ints and pick 6's are coming off 3 step drops by the qb.....meaning there isnt much "reading" that has to be done & the ball is coming out just about as fast as it can. So its not mattering how fast the ball is coming out...teams are sitting on the routes. Hell3 of the pick 6's have come exclusively off out routes. They know its coming and they are driving hard on them.

I am watching the games, 3 step drop and Matt DOES NOT get rid of the ball.

1
2
3.........deliver.

It can't be like that on short routes.

It has to be

1
2
3. Deliver

Matt does not do this. How can you sit on a 5 yard pass play and INT it UNLESS the QB is hesitating? It's nearly impossible to get that ball if the QB is releasing it on time and zipping it to the WR unless the WRs tips it up into the air himself.

Look at the Bradford TD. He read the defense before throwing it to his WR. He saw Kareem was giving his man a cushion (for whatever reason) and delivered the ball right away to his man for a easy TD. If he hesitates one second Kareem likely realizes what's going on and makes a play on the ball.

Besides the INTs this game were completely on the QB. One throws into double coverage after staring down his man the whole way...the other he just throws right to the guy.

Norg
10-13-2013, 04:49 PM
I would like to make a "Case" to bring in Brett Farve or Kurt warner :kitten:

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 05:01 PM
I am watching the games, 3 step drop and Matt DOES NOT get rid of the ball.

1
2
3.........deliver.

It can't be like that on short routes.

It has to be

1
2
3. Deliver

Matt does not do this. How can you sit on a 5 yard pass play and INT it UNLESS the QB is hesitating? It's nearly impossible to get that ball if the QB is releasing it on time and zipping it to the WR unless the WRs tips it up into the air himself.

Look at the Bradford TD. He read the defense before throwing it to his WR. He saw Kareem was giving his man a cushion (for whatever reason) and delivered the ball right away to his man for a easy TD. If he hesitates one second Kareem likely realizes what's going on and makes a play on the ball.

Besides the INTs this game were completely on the QB. One throws into double coverage after staring down his man the whole way...the other he just throws right to the guy.


You ever heard of cover 2? The cb's dont have to cover deep, they have the flats....lb's have the short middle of the field....exactly where we love to send our TE's...thats how u sit on 5 -7 yd routes....apart from that, look how many defenders are in the vicinity on these ints and pick 6's. The pick 6 Yates threw today had 3 guys within striking distance of making a play on that ball....pretty much like schaub's 1st pick in the SEA game. They know its coming and there is zero fear of getting beat deep....partly b/c of schaub's arm, but also b/c of gary and his system/tendencies when calling plays...

Also as a qb you have to wait for the WR to turn their damn heads...we don't exactly have burners out there.

fiasco west
10-13-2013, 05:09 PM
You ever heard of cover 2? The cb's dont have to cover deep, they have the flats....lb's have the short middle of the field....exactly where we love to send our TE's...thats how u sit on 5 -7 yd routes....apart from that, look how many defenders are in the vicinity on these ints and pick 6's. The pick 6 Yates threw today had 3 guys within striking distance of making a play on that ball....pretty much like schaub's 1st pick in the SEA game. They know its coming and there is zero fear of getting beat deep....partly b/c of schaub's arm, but also b/c of gary and his system/tendencies when calling plays...

Also as a qb you have to wait for the WR to turn their damn heads...we don't exactly have burners out there.

You also sit on it and know it's coming when the QB is staring his man down as if he stole something and then waiting an extra second or two to give him the ball.

The Patriots and Saints also dink and dunk down the field, but they do not have this problem with pick sixes because their QBs get rid of the ball and beyond that spread it around and don't lock onto receivers.

Matt and Yates have been doing this.

Matt can't throw deep accurately...and now he can't throw short accurately...so what else is Kubiak supposed to call? Both of Yates INTs were not on any system, just on him making poor decisions.

Also cover 2 still doesn't mean you can cover short routes, they are pretty much uncoverable if the offense executes them (which is why the Pats utilize them so often) the only way Andre gets picked off in that 9ers game is because of hesitation and lack of zip to the ball. Even if the defense sees it coming you can't react to something so fast. Just like how Bradford threw that easy TD. If he zips it in the right place and on time then there is nothing that can't be done.

EllisUnit
10-13-2013, 05:10 PM
You ever heard of cover 2? The cb's dont have to cover deep, they have the flats....lb's have the short middle of the field....exactly where we love to send our TE's...thats how u sit on 5 -7 yd routes....apart from that, look how many defenders are in the vicinity on these ints and pick 6's. The pick 6 Yates threw today had 3 guys within striking distance of making a play on that ball....pretty much like schaub's 1st pick in the SEA game. They know its coming and there is zero fear of getting beat deep....partly b/c of schaub's arm, but also b/c of gary and his system/tendencies when calling plays...

Also as a qb you have to wait for the WR to turn their damn heads...we don't exactly have burners out there.

dont help the QB is staring down who he's going to even before the ball is snapped

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 05:27 PM
dont help the QB is staring down who he's going to even before the ball is snapped

Its a 3 step drop.......those 8 out of 10 times are 1 read plays....if its there fire it in there....if not you have no choice but to throw it away b/c there's no time to go anywhere else. as a qb, If you try to look off the defense in those situations, you run the risk of just making blind throws....not good.

I say all that to say its nearly impossible notto stare down your only read on such quick plays. Every single qb in the league does that on those type of throws...

The difference with us versus other offenses....besides the obvious that is....is that teams arent sitting on their 3 step drop stuff like they're doing us b/c they hit em with other things to scare them off of doing that.

Think of a boxer and the use of his jab....they're extremely effective when u mix them in well with other punch types b/c the opponent can't hone in on them for fear of catching a power punch.....but when all you do is throw jabs and very little of anything else......you can guess might what happen.

EllisUnit
10-13-2013, 05:30 PM
Its a 3 step drop.......those 8 out of 10 times are 1 read plays....if its there fire it in there....if not you have no choice but to throw it away b/c there's no time to go anywhere else. as a qb, If you try to look off the defense in those situations, you run the risk of just making blind throws....not good.

I say all that to say its nearly impossible notto stare down your only read on such quick plays. Every single qb in the league does that on those type of throws...

The difference with us versus other offenses....besides the obvious that is....is that teams arent sitting on their 3 step drop stuff like they're doing us...

Seen many manning 3 step drops where he looks off coverage, same with rogers

Hervoyel
10-13-2013, 05:31 PM
if kubiak is going to call plays that are short and mid passes, I don't think case will have a huge problem sticking with this game plan.

Kubiak literally turned Matt Schaub into David Carr in the first half. Lots of completions, very little challenge to any of it, no results to speak of.

Hell, we could have kept the old #8 and done this.

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 05:39 PM
Seen many manning 3 step drops where he looks off coverage, same with rogers

Lol, manning is probably the most NOTORIOUS for staring down his WR's on 3 step drop passes....see the AFC championship game from 07 when samuels pick 6'ed him....hell, see the SB when tracy porter picked him...that wasnt a 3 step drop i believe, but illustrates what im talking about when db's sit on stuff.

And like i said, other qb's can get away with it largely b/c they make them pay by going over the top..schaubiak don't do that.

fiasco west
10-13-2013, 05:39 PM
Its a 3 step drop.......those 8 out of 10 times are 1 read plays....if its there fire it in there....if not you have no choice but to throw it away b/c there's no time to go anywhere else. as a qb, If you try to look off the defense in those situations, you run the risk of just making blind throws....not good.

Well here is the thing...just throwing it away would have made us 3-3 right now at the very least. Had Matt just threw that one away in the Seattle game I am confident we get out of there with a win.

I think we are making too many excuses for TERRIBLE QB play. I'm sure Kubiak had it designed on Graham getting the TD there but I think Kubiak knows that if it's not there then the QB has to make the decision on himself. The QB HAS to make a play for himself.

Our QBs do not do this. They do not scramble out of the pocket to make a play, pump fake a defender, look off a defender, generally just make the play that isn't there on occasion.


Basically everything has to go right for our 1st and 2nd string QB to succeed. Maybe Keenum would fail too, but we don't know.

We have no idea of knowing if he stares down Graham the entire way before throwing it...or he just throws it away...or heck tries to run it in himself.

HJam72
10-13-2013, 05:42 PM
Well here is the thing...just throwing it away would have made us 3-3 right now at the very least. Had Matt just threw that one away in the Seattle game I am confident we get out of there with a win.

I think we are making too many excuses for TERRIBLE QB play. I'm sure Kubiak had it designed on Graham getting the TD there but I think Kubiak knows that if it's not there then the QB has to make the decision on himself. The QB HAS to make a play for himself.

Our QBs do not do this. They do not scramble out of the pocket to make a play, pump fake a defender, look off a defender, generally just make the play that isn't there on occasion.


Basically everything has to go right for our 1st and 2nd string QB to succeed. Maybe Keenum would fail too, but we don't know.

We have no idea of knowing if he stares down Graham the entire way before throwing it...or he just throws it away...or heck tries to run it in himself.

Gee, it's a good thing Kubiak is the world's greatest QB coach or our QBs would really suck.

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 05:51 PM
Well here is the thing...just throwing it away would have made us 3-3 right now at the very least. Had Matt just threw that one away in the Seattle game I am confident we get out of there with a win.

I think we are making too many excuses for TERRIBLE QB play. I'm sure Kubiak had it designed on Graham getting the TD there but I think Kubiak knows that if it's not there then the QB has to make the decision on himself. The QB HAS to make a play for himself.

Our QBs do not do this. They do not scramble out of the pocket to make a play, pump fake a defender, look off a defender, generally just make the play that isn't there on occasion.


Basically everything has to go right for our 1st and 2nd string QB to succeed. Maybe Keenum would fail too, but we don't know.

We have no idea of knowing if he stares down Graham the entire way before throwing it...or he just throws it away...or heck tries to run it in himself.

Not making excuses for the qb play...its been bad. But lets be real here. In kubiak's system we've seen:

Carr
Rosenfels
Lienart
Schaub
Yates

That's 5 different qb's. We didn't see much of Carr and Lienart but i think we've seen enough from the other 3. For the most, they all have looked about the same. At what point do you start to think that just maybe the qbs play just how they're being coached to play in this system and that bringing in another qb might likely yield the same results as the 5 before him?

fiasco west
10-13-2013, 06:00 PM
Not making excuses for the qb play...its been bad. But lets be real here. In kubiak's system we've seen:

Carr
Rosenfels
Lienart
Schaub
Yates

That's 5 different qb's. We didn't see much of Carr and Lienart but i think we've seen enough from the other 3. For the most, they all have looked about the same. At what point do you start to think that just maybe the qbs play just how they're being coached to play in this system and that bringing in another qb might likely yield the same results as the 5 before him?

Well those other guys were already failed QBs before Kubiak touched them.

Schaub at one point was at least a top 10 QB, we've seen him had tremendous success with Kubiak. So I don't think it is all on Kubiak, these recent INTs have been really really really bad decisions by the QB.

Watching Wilson now...I don't think he'd make those same decisions. He's just tuck it and run right? Manning would just pump fake his guy or go through his progressions right? Rogers would run it or go through his progressions...

Schaub and Yates just tries to force it,even when it is clearly not there.

I'm not absolving Kubiak, he picked these guys and that's on him. But they are making poor decisions that makes Kubiak offense look worse than it usually is.

Lucky
10-13-2013, 06:00 PM
At what point do you start to think that just maybe the qbs play just how they're being coached to play in this system and that bringing in another qb might likely yield the same results as the 5 before him?
If you're implying that the Texans should be looking for another coach, that coach will want to bring in his own QB.

Mr teX
10-13-2013, 06:13 PM
If you're implying that the Texans should be looking for another coach, that coach will want to bring in his own QB.

This is ultimately what needs to happen for there to be any real change. You need a new coach with a new philosophy who will ultimately bring his own guy in.

I don't trust kubiak to get this team turned around
I dont believe kubiak will change his tendencies

& i definitely dont want him to have anything to do with bringing in the next qb of this team

Lucky
10-13-2013, 06:16 PM
This is ultimately what needs to happen for there to be any real change. You need a new coach with a new philosophy who will ultimately bring his own guy in.

I don't trust kubiak to get this team turned around
I dont believe kubiak will change his tendencies

& i definitely dont want him to have anything to do with bringing in the next qb of this team
Can't really argue with any of that.

Nawzer
10-13-2013, 06:25 PM
This is ultimately what needs to happen for there to be any real change. You need a new coach with a new philosophy who will ultimately bring his own guy in.

I don't trust kubiak to get this team turned around
I dont believe kubiak will change his tendencies

& i definitely dont want him to have anything to do with bringing in the next qb of this team

I have said over the past few years that I never believed Kubiak was going to be the guy who leads us to the Super Bowl. He's a guy who righted the ship and I'm thankful for that. But he's overstayed his welcome and I blame McNair for that. It's time to cut ties with Kubiak as soon as possible and go after someone who's a leader of men. Some of these players need to go too. The problem with Kubiak's system is that it makes average players look good and doesn't allow for talent to flourish. A prime example of each scenario is Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson. Schaub is an above average QB, but he had a couple of years where he was comparable to the likes of Brees, Manning, Rodgers, and Brady. But I don't think he would've put up the kind of numbers he did if he was somewhere else. On the other hand you have AJ who imo is misused in this offense. It's embarrassing that he has no TD receptions this year and has not scored a lot in his career. We have to get someone in here who will lead first and foremost, adapt to the new NFL, and let talent flourish.

YeaLikeRightNow
10-13-2013, 06:32 PM
I have said over the past few years that I never believed Kubiak was going to be the guy who leads us to the Super Bowl. He's a guy who righted the ship and I'm thankful for that. But he's overstayed his welcome and I blame McNair for that. It's time to cut ties with Kubiak as soon as possible and go after someone who's a leader of men. Some of these players need to go too. The problem with Kubiak's system is that it makes average players look good and doesn't allow for talent to flourish. A prime example of each scenario is Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson. Schaub is an above average QB, but he had a couple of years where he was comparable to the likes of Brees, Manning, Rodgers, and Brady. But I don't think he would've put up the kind of numbers he did if he was somewhere else. On the other hand you have AJ who imo is misused in this offense. It's embarrassing that he has no TD receptions this year and has not scored a lot in his career. We have to get someone in here who will lead first and foremost, adapt to the new NFL, and let talent flourish.


Exactly...nice posts...bring in Keenum, he's moldable - but I do hate to see Kubes doing the molding. :smiliepalm:

thunderkyss
10-13-2013, 08:01 PM
I don't know if Kubiak is going to activate Keenum next week. If anything, he'll increase Tj's snaps with the 1s.

But what I want to know is where was Ben Tate? Arian practically gift wrapped a TD for him & he didn't deliver. Did he even get 5 yards today?

Rey
10-14-2013, 12:22 AM
I don't know if Kubiak is going to activate Keenum next week. If anything, he'll increase Tj's snaps with the 1s.

But what I want to know is where was Ben Tate? Arian practically gift wrapped a TD for him & he didn't deliver. Did he even get 5 yards today?

Tate scored the only TD we had today.

Vance87
10-14-2013, 12:58 AM
I don't know if Kubiak is going to activate Keenum next week. If anything, he'll increase Tj's snaps with the 1s.

But what I want to know is where was Ben Tate? Arian practically gift wrapped a TD for him & he didn't deliver. Did he even get 5 yards today?

If Schaub is going to be out with an injury for the next game, he'll have to activate Keenum. No way you go into a game with only one QB able to play.

Sigma
10-15-2013, 06:36 AM
What if Case comes in and lights it up? Why would you draft a QB in the first round then? You're assuming he'll come in and not play well. That's why you have to see what he has when games actually mean something. Playing him when the Texans are out of contention to me isn't a true evaluation.

if he does what kaep did then I agree with you

but if he looks like he could be a new kind of schaub (different style but same reliability) then I think drafting a QB could help.

We won't be high enough in the first round tho, and I don't think they like to trade up

jaayteetx
10-17-2013, 04:02 PM
Need me to start any other threads?

legacy_gt
10-19-2013, 01:58 AM
I said he isn't a starter in the league and I still believe that.

weather you think he is a starter in the league or not, case will get his chance.