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Runner
10-06-2013, 09:37 PM
McNair extended Kubiak the season he should have been fired. Is it any wonder players like Schaub and Bullock aren't held accountable? It's the corporate culture.

CretorFrigg
10-06-2013, 09:37 PM
McNair extended Kubiak the season he should have been fired. Is it any wonder players like Schaub and Bullock aren't held accountable? It's the corporate culture.

No, but players like Tate are held accountable when they fumble once and get benched even though he was having a kick-ass game.

I'd say it's favoritism, not accountability.

Runner
10-06-2013, 09:39 PM
No, but players like Tate are held accountable when they fumble once and get benched even though he was having a kick-ass game.

I'd say it's favoritism, not accountability.

Either way, it's a helluva a way to run a franchise. At least the fans give them lots of money for the show.

cstyle42
10-06-2013, 09:42 PM
No, but players like Tate are held accountable when they fumble once and get benched even though he was having a kick-ass game.

I'd say it's favoritism, not accountability.

You can argue that it's almost racism I mean the system is being run in good ol boy fashion.

JCTexan
10-06-2013, 09:54 PM
No, but players like Tate are held accountable when they fumble once and get benched even though he was having a kick-ass game.

I'd say it's favoritism, not accountability.

This. Keshawn Martin fumbled and recovered it himself. The next punt return Keo was back there.

eriadoc
10-06-2013, 10:11 PM
Hey, it works for the fans and it works for business, so what's to change? The games all sell out. *shrug*

Texanmike02
10-06-2013, 10:27 PM
This. Keshawn Martin fumbled and recovered it himself. The next punt return Keo was back there.

Martin was shaken up and out of the game I believe.

Mike

Double Barrel
10-06-2013, 11:28 PM
Hey, it works for the fans and it works for business, so what's to change? The games all sell out. *shrug*

Houston Texans, Inc. brags about consecutive Reliant "sellouts" since 2002...

...like that is something to brag about. :wadepalm:

utahmark
10-06-2013, 11:45 PM
You can argue that it's almost racism I mean the system is being run in good ol boy fashion.

When you replace a qb its usually a permanent deal. At the very least one game. Add that to the fact that what's replacing him is probably not going to be very good. It makes it a tough decision. Ben Tate goes out for a quarter and you have a better guy taking up the slack. Then he can come back in and not miss a beat. At this point something needs to be done but its a totally different decision.

Your the second person to mention racism in this decision. I don't think you thought that statement through.

Marcus
10-06-2013, 11:49 PM
I'm disgusting.

I couldn't agree more.

JCTexan
10-06-2013, 11:55 PM
Martin was shaken up and out of the game I believe.

Mike

Ah. The only thing I remembered is he wasn't in the next punt return after the fumble. He returned later in the game, so maybe it was just a minor injury for Kmart..

WolverineFan
10-07-2013, 12:04 AM
Schaub didn't even have the sack to face the media after the game.

Accountability.

htownfan32
10-07-2013, 12:06 AM
Schaub didn't even have the sack to face the media after the game.

Accountability.

Is the post game media conference going on right now? 610 is just analysis atm. I wanna hear Kubiak talk.

midway
10-07-2013, 12:07 AM
McNair's track record is not requiring any accountability. At least not until it's far too late.

midway
10-07-2013, 12:08 AM
I wanna hear Kubiak talk.

Here's what he said:

"Matt's my guy. That was on me. I didn't put Matt in a position to win. It's on me."

I didn't actually listen, but I already know that's what he said, and so you do.

WolverineFan
10-07-2013, 12:10 AM
Is the post game media conference going on right now? 610 is just analysis atm. I wanna hear Kubiak talk.

It was on ESPN.

thetexanator
10-07-2013, 12:21 AM
Schaub didn't even have the sack to face the media after the game.

Accountability.
he faced it. said we all need to get better as a team. lol.

WolverineFan
10-07-2013, 12:24 AM
he faced it. said we all need to get better as a team. lol.

He talked in the locker room. He declined to go to the podium.

thetexanator
10-07-2013, 12:26 AM
He talked in the locker room. He declined to go to the podium.

really. wonder if he picks who gets to ask him the questions.

thunderkyss
10-07-2013, 01:58 AM
Is the post game media conference going on right now? 610 is just analysis atm. I wanna hear Kubiak talk.

HoustonTexans.com (http://prod.www.texans.clubs.nfl.com/tv-media/videos/press-conferences.html)

Lucky
10-07-2013, 02:14 AM
really. wonder if he picks who gets to ask him the questions.
Schaub should pick 6 to talk to. That would be about right.

After listening to Kubiak's postgame interview, it sounds as if we will all have to "work through this thing" with Schaub.

Pick 6 - 4
Accountability - 0

I just noticed that Bill Paxton would be dead on if Hollywood ever makes the Gary Kubiak Story. John McClain could be played by Shamu the whale.

Wolf6151
10-07-2013, 02:41 AM
I posted something similar in another thread but it can go here as well. I view the media as an extension of the fans, they get access to the team and get to ask questions of the team that we all wish we could be asking. Why is our media soft on the team? Why are they settling for the same old "It's on me" or "I didn't call a good play or put the player in a position to succeed" excuses and not asking a hard follow up question like Why? If this were New York, Boston, Philly, etc... the media would be ripping this team and asking the hard nasty questions that fans want answered. The media is the fans version of accountability to the team.

steelbtexan
10-07-2013, 02:46 AM
There is no accountability

Never has been on the football side of the operation.

EllisUnit
10-07-2013, 03:25 AM
It was on ESPN.

e said "We cant turn the ball over, we had the fumble and some other things" are you Fing kidding me. Out of the whole game he mentions the fumble by tae.

infantrycak
10-07-2013, 03:44 AM
If this were New York, Boston, Philly, etc... the media would be ripping this team and asking the hard nasty questions that fans want answered. The media is the fans version of accountability to the team.

To what effect? Is Eli with his 12 INTs about to be benched? Is Tom Coughlin about to be fired? Asking hard nasty questions just receives another round of coach speak not more accountability.

EllisUnit
10-07-2013, 03:46 AM
To what effect? Is Eli with his 12 INTs about to be benched? Is Tom Coughlin about to be fired? Asking hard nasty questions just receives another round of coach speak not more accountability.

pretty sure Eli has won them 2 superbowls though, what has Schaub won us besides AFC South champs ? And now holder of a new nfl record.

waynegg
10-07-2013, 04:45 AM
No, but players like Tate are held accountable when they fumble once and get benched even though he was having a kick-ass game.

I'd say it's favoritism, not accountability.

I say its play the higher salary, piss on talent...

LEATHERHEAD
10-07-2013, 07:07 AM
Going down with a sinking ship..get rid of kubs,3to 5 years to rebuild---Go Rockets

Marcus
10-07-2013, 10:29 PM
pretty sure Eli has won them 2 superbowls though, what has Schaub won us besides AFC South champs ? And now holder of a new nfl record.

Well, I happen to be in NYC right now. Trust me, no one here gives a rat's ass about Eli winning 2 Super Bowls. The Giants are now 0-4, and it's what have you done for me lately, and that's all anyone cares about.

thunderkyss
10-08-2013, 08:28 AM
Well, I happen to be in NYC right now. Trust me, no one here gives a rat's ass about Eli winning 2 Super Bowls. The Giants are now 0-4, and it's what have you done for me lately, and that's all anyone cares about.

Agreed. But no one here is giving Eli that kinda grief, mainly because we don't care.

Eli has had some great games, we(down here in Texas) believe he's the best option they have right now.

If we were able to step back & look at our situation it's possible that we can see the same thing here. Yates/Keenum aren't going to get in the game unless Schaub gets hurt. Matt is our starting QB, much to our chagrin.

The frustrating part, is that few of us had the confidence in Schaub that Gary has had to begin with. We understand if Schaub's play drops below a certain level, he'd get pulled. It baffles us, even me (a guy who doesn't care for Schaub but believed he is good enough to win a Championship with this team), that we haven't seen that level yet.

Sigma
10-08-2013, 06:40 PM
You can argue that it's almost racism I mean the system is being run in good ol boy fashion.

I think fascism is a better word for the concept. It's less race-related and more political.

Vinny
10-08-2013, 07:21 PM
I think fascism is a better word for the concept. It's less race-related and more political.You are correct that racist doesn't apply. Gary hand picked Frank Bush and Rick Smith as his key people...so I think racist is kinda not even close to accurate.

Sigma
10-08-2013, 08:05 PM
You are correct that racist doesn't apply. Gary hand picked Frank Bush and Rick Smith as his key people...so I think racist is kinda not even close to accurate.

well someone can still be racist if he favors black people over white, but I don't think this is the case...

thunderkyss
10-08-2013, 08:35 PM
well someone can still be racist if he favors black people over white, but I don't think this is the case...

Yeah, that's it. Kubiak favors black people over white. He named his sons Kxxx, Kxxx, & Kxxx, & that's why he's more lenient to Schaub than he is to Ben Tate.

:ok:

Vinny
10-08-2013, 08:48 PM
well someone can still be racist if he favors black people over white, but I don't think this is the case...
thanks for the education

thunderkyss
10-08-2013, 08:55 PM
you cant blame people for feeling it. jacoby jones and trindon holliday are gone but how long did kevin walter last?

how long has joe marciano lasted?

you think if matt schaub was black and played the same way, threw crazy picks in end of games and to defensive linemen and linbackers, he would have lasted 7 years as starter?


lets be honest here.

Try this-->click (https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&es_sm=93&q=reading+comprehension&spell=1&sa=X&ei=IalUUvkeyJnZBdzOgfAO&ved=0CCwQvwUoAA&biw=1024&bih=510&dpr=1&cad=cbv&sei=J6lUUsbIJMm32wXykYGIBw)<--

Then read what Sigma said again.

well someone can still be racist if he favors black people over white, but I don't think this is the case...

Then read what I said again.

Yeah, that's it. Kubiak favors black people over white. He named his sons Kxxx, Kxxx, & Kxxx, & that's why he's more lenient to Schaub than he is to Ben Tate.

:ok:

Sigma
10-08-2013, 09:08 PM
thanks for the education

so, this is where my english fails me...

With your first post I wasn't sure if you were sarcastic or not, then all sorts of stuff came out about kubiak being so biased.

I guess I never noticed because I'm not even considering the possibility of someone being racist in such an environment.

And now I don't get if you are sarcastic again :)

it is 3AM over here, in my defense.

This said, I really hope that Kubiak isn't racist...

Vinny
10-08-2013, 09:12 PM
so, this is where my english fails me...

With your first post I wasn't sure if you were sarcastic or not, then all sorts of stuff came out about kubiak being so biased.

I guess I never noticed because I'm not even considering the possibility of someone being racist in such an environment.

And now I don't get if you are sarcastic again :)

it is 3AM over here, in my defense.

This said, I really hope that Kubiak isn't racist...
no problem....I'm darkly sarcastic at times. It's all really hilarious with all the proper translations and such. just ignore me for the most part - it works for the others. :)

Sigma
10-08-2013, 09:14 PM
no problem....I'm darkly sarcastic at times. It's all really hilarious with all the proper translations and such. just ignore me for the most part - it works for the others. :)

pun intended?

thunderkyss
10-08-2013, 09:34 PM
kubiak is lenient to schaub because he lives vicariously through schaub.
.

Your hatred of Kubiak & Schaub makes it difficult to take you seriously. You come off as an emotionally distraught, teenage groupie.

bckey
10-09-2013, 09:18 PM
no problem....I'm darkly sarcastic at times. It's all really hilarious with all the proper translations and such. just ignore me for the most part - it works for the others. :)

never mr. shiny happy fan.

eriadoc
10-10-2013, 12:52 AM
Your hatred of Kubiak & Schaub makes it difficult to take you seriously.

Kind of the bizarro version of you, huh? Both equally impossible to take seriously, but complete opposite in viewpoint. ;)

Vinny
10-10-2013, 01:00 AM
ahh yes pigeonhole an entire post and start the name calling.

i would respond accordingly but i dont want to get banned.


nice football related response.dude, just talk football. Get a little surly if you want but stop the whining about getting tossed or the nazi influence or whatever oppressive forces rue the day. The posters here will assert enough peer pressure to keep you in check (you've used some yourself)...just stop with the persecution complex and grow a pair. If you want to screech and moan about this place I suggest doing it somewhere other than here. Your namesake says it all. never mr. shiny happy fan. just another troubling Heisenberg quality.

bckey
10-10-2013, 08:26 AM
just another troubling Heisenberg quality.

Gonna miss that show. That was the only show I watched (every episode) and now its gone. Oh well.

TexansFight
10-10-2013, 11:00 AM
Come on Breh: You have a brother in arms here with me to fight the good fight. I like your style and passion. I have got your back. I have been here since the beginning and I have a reputation of being an ornery SOB which is true. I am sick and tired of the same crap and problems rearing their head every hear.

I want a cleansing fire. BENCH SCHAUB AND FIRE KUBIAK!

EVOLVIST
10-10-2013, 11:53 AM
kubiak is lenient to schaub because he lives vicariously through schaub.

He sees himself in schaub, a guy who never got a chance to start becasue of elway. He's now making up for it with schaub, another glorified back up. He invested a lot of time in him, and he doesnt want to give up on him because it means that he's giving up on himself in some sick delusional psychological way.

I don't know about "sick" and/or "delusional, because psychologically this pattern fits within the normal realm of human behavior. In other words, this hypothesis wouldn't be an overt psychosis from Gary Kubiak - merely a microcosm of what we've all experienced from time to time, only, in this case, commiserate to a higher level of public scrutiny.

I've been saying this for years that Kubiak's backup QB mentality has been hurting this team via Matt Schaub. So, I think your point is extremely valid.

To that end, Gary has the capability to get it done, and probably lead this team to a Super Bowl, but only if he can somehow acquire a QB that doesn't fit his mold - to get out of Gary's comfort zone - someone that Gary can only shape so much, in all the right ways. Instead, this yet-to-be-named young QB negates the need for Gary to infuse his own shortcomings into him, because he's more talented than Gary ever was.

I think Gary could except that. It's just that he made a good call with Schuab, had initial success, but like Robert Zimmerman, "The Times They Are a-Changin'." Whether Gary adapts or not is a different story. If he can, he should be golden. If not, he's done. :roast:

Trail.Blazr
10-10-2013, 12:43 PM
I don't know about "sick" and/or "delusional, because psychologically this pattern fits within the normal realm of human behavior. In other words, this hypothesis wouldn't be an overt psychosis from Gary Kubiak - merely a microcosm of what we've all experienced from time to time, only, in this case, commiserate to a higher level of public scrutiny.

I've been saying this for years that Kubiak's backup QB mentality has been hurting this team via Matt Schaub. So, I think your point is extremely valid.

To that end, Gary has the capability to get it done, and probably lead this team to a Super Bowl, but only if he can somehow acquire a QB that doesn't fit his mold - to get out of Gary's comfort zone - someone that Gary can only shape so much, in all the right ways. Instead, this yet-to-be-named young QB negates the need for Gary to infuse his own shortcomings into him, because he's more talented than Gary ever was.

I think Gary could except that. It's just that he made a good call with Schuab, had initial success, but like Robert Zimmerman, "The Times They Are a-Changin'." Whether Gary adapts or not is a different story. If he can, he should be golden. If not, he's done. :roast:

My money is on not. If Gary has proven one thing, he's consistent. I'll bet you this week's mentality is just like the week's past... Aw Shucks Matt, your our guy. Don't worry about last week... That's on me. Go on out there, and do your best. We all need to play better and doggonit, we will! Let's, instead focus on fixing the real problems we have.... Defense.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 01:12 PM
If you were a manager in charge of a group of people and there were 32 other managers just like you how many of you would expect to be fired if all teams had the same budget, rules and objects and you outperformed 68% of them?

Runner
10-10-2013, 01:26 PM
If you were a manager in charge of a group of people and there were 32 other managers just like you how many of you would expect to be fired if all teams had the same budget, rules and objects and you outperformed 68% of them?

Please clarify. Am I being paid millions to be the absolute best in an extremely competitve industry, or am I making a normal salary in an industry where average performance is acceptable?

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 01:28 PM
Please clarify. Am I being paid millions to be the absolute best in an extremely competitve industry, or am I making a normal salary in an industry where average performance is acceptable?



Wouldnt it all be relative? All 32 coaches would be in the same payband. As a manager to me comp would be irrelevant in evaluating the 32 people if they had the same objects, rules and budget.

Runner
10-10-2013, 01:34 PM
Wouldnt it all be relative? All 32 coaches would be in the same payband. As a manager to me comp would be irrelevant in evaluating the 32 people if they had the same objects, rules and budget.

No it isn't relative. In many normal jobs being average is ok. In the NFL, a coach that goes 8-8 year after year would not be seen as doing an adequate job.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 01:41 PM
No it isn't relative. In many normal jobs being average is ok. In the NFL, a coach that goes 8-8 year after year would not be seen as doing an adequate job.



It is relative to the subset of the 32 employees who are paid to be the head coaches. It is also realtive that none of those 32 are normal paying while others are making 20MM. It is relatvie to that subset of employees and their given rolls. Are we talking about 8-8 now or performing better than 68% of your peers?

Runner
10-10-2013, 01:51 PM
It is relative to the subset of the 32 employees who are paid to be the head coaches. It is also realtive that none of those 32 are normal paying while others are making 20MM. It is relatvie to that subset of employees and their given rolls. Are we talking about 8-8 now or performing better than 68% of your peers?

I used 50% to make the example clearer. Would you think a 50% coach is doing Ok?

Let's look at that 68%. Some would argue that the Texans have better talent than 75% of the league. In that case 68% is under performing.

Kubiak has had this job longer than most head coaches. He has had more time to get things exactly as he wants them. 68% is the best he can do?

As an aside, what does the 68% represent; what did you use to rank the coaches? If we are going to dig into the numbers that would be good to know

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 01:59 PM
I used 50% to make the example clearer. Would you think a 50% coach is doing Ok?

Let's look at that 68%. Some would argue that the Texans have better talent than 75% of the league. In that case 68% is under performing.

Kubiak has had this job longer than most head coaches. He has had more time to get things exactly as he wants them. 68% is the best he can do?

As an aside, what does the 68% represent; what did you use to rank the coaches? If we are going to dig into the numbers that would be good to know



A coach going 8-8 may be okay and it may not it certainly depends on many factors. Like the Texans making it to the second round of the playoffs despite the loss of Schaub, Johnson and Williams. On an adjusted basis I would say that was well overperforming. Making it to the second round of the playoffs puts your team's performance besting 68.75% of the league. The level of talent on the team is better ranked by folks who do this for a living rather than fans. Also the expectations and how things run are probably better handled by McNair as a bussiness man vs random fans.

Runner
10-10-2013, 02:09 PM
So the 68% was based on one year's playoff results.

Kubiak's average record per season is 8.4 wins and 7.6 losses. His Texans average a 2.5 finish in a 4 team division. I question the 68% value. It looks more like 50% to me.

You will offer an opinion on Kubes as a coach, but you leave evaluating player talent to the experts. Hard to have a discussion about our opinions if our opinions are rejected because we aren't experts.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 02:15 PM
So the 68% was based on one year's playoff results.

Kubiak's average record per season is 8.4 wins and 7.6 losses. His Texans average a 2.5 finish in a 4 team division. I question the 68% value. It looks more like 50% to me.

You will offer an opinion on Kubes as a coach, but you leave evaluating player talent to the experts. Hard to have a discussion about our opinions if our opinions are rejected because we aren't experts.



I actually offered no opinion on Gary as a coach but rather asked a question. FWIW the 68% value would apply for the last two years one of which came to a close before he and rick got their extension. Have all the opinions that you wish but know your(fans) opinions are heavily clouded by emotions

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 02:22 PM
kubiak has 2 first round wins, 2 division titles in 7 years as head coach.

marciano fields poor to mediocre special teams for a solid decade.

schaub has as brought the team as many playoff wins and as far as TJ Yates has.

there is no accountability.

This is a deeply rooted Institutional Problem.




The playoff win stat line between tj and matt is a joke. TJ would have zero wins if it wasnt for Matt setting the season up.

Runner
10-10-2013, 02:27 PM
I actually offered no opinion on Gary as a coach but rather asked a question. FWIW the 68% value would apply for the last two years one of which came to a close before he and rick got their extension. Have all the opinions that you wish but know your(fans) opinions are heavily clouded by emotions

For a while there I thought we had an interesting discussion going. Falling back on "we aren't experts so our opinions don't matter" kills that. (I bet you do think your opinions on football have some value though, right?)

But I will agree with your conclusion. If you cherry pick Kubiak's two best years and use the criteria you chose, only 8 coaches (one third of the league, two whole divisions worth) were better than him.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 02:32 PM
For a while there I thought we had an interesting discussion going. Falling back on "we aren't experts so our opinions don't matter" kills that. (I bet you do think your opinions on football have some value though, right?)

But I will agree with your conclusion. If you cherry pick Kubiak's two best years and use the criteria you chose, only 8 coaches (one third of the league, two whole divisions worth) were better than him.



My opinions have zero value in terms of running a football team. I do however have a lot of background managing large numbers of employees and performing performance reviews.


Im not sure how you would claim I cherry picked Gary's two best season as they are the last two completed and in between those two he got the extension. This thread is about accountability and after his best season the HC got an extension and he followed that season up with two more wins and another playoff victory.

Runner
10-10-2013, 02:48 PM
My opinions have zero value in terms of running a football team. I do however have a lot of background managing large numbers of employees and performing performance reviews.


Im not sure how you would claim I cherry picked Gary's two best season as they are the last two completed and in between those two he got the extension. This thread is about accountability and after his best season the HC got an extension and he followed that season up with two more wins and another playoff victory.

He also got extended after a couple of 8-8 and a 9-7 season. What was his rating at that time based on your playoff success criteria? I'd think low since he didn't make the playoffs. He did follow that up with a 6-10 season though. I submit that as an example of no accountability.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 02:56 PM
He also got extended after a couple of 8-8 and a 9-7 season. What was his rating at that time based on your playoff success criteria? I'd think low since he didn't make the playoffs. He did follow that up with a 6-10 season though. I submit that as an example of no accountability.


It depends on your viewpoint. Long term if you went from 8-8 and 3 seasons later won a playoff game thats fairly good progress I would think. If you continued your 8-8, 9-7 or 7-9 ways maybe that would be a lack of accountability. If one of your employees goes from an average performer and improves most years that is a good job of managing not a lack of accountability

8-8
8-8
9-7
6-10
10-6
12-4

Runner
10-10-2013, 03:06 PM
It depends on your viewpoint. Long term if you went from 8-8 and 3 seasons later won a playoff game thats fairly good progress I would think. If you continued your 8-8, 9-7 or 7-9 ways maybe that would be a lack of accountability. If one of your employees goes from an average performer and improves most years that is a good job of managing not a lack of accountability

8-8
8-8
9-7
6-10
10-6
12-4

He was extended after seasons of stagnation. The "long term" benefit is seen in hindsight. We will see if his improvement continues, or if he falls back to his norm of 8-9 wins.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 03:08 PM
He was extended after seasons of stagnation. The "long term" benefit is seen in hindsight. We will see if his improvement continues, or if he falls back to his norm of 8-9 wins.

Hence maybe Bob knows better how to run it than you or I. Maybe for him he saw the benefit and thus extended the contract of the HC mutiple times

Runner
10-10-2013, 03:30 PM
Hence maybe Bob knows better how to run it than you or I. Maybe for him he saw the benefit and thus extended the contract of the HC mutiple times

Yep. He got the 9th best guy (excluding the 6-10 data point because it doesn't support the argument)...which will probably change one way or the other this year.

So far it doesn't look like it is going up.

Double Barrel
10-10-2013, 03:33 PM
Hence maybe Bob knows better how to run it than you or I. Maybe for him he saw the benefit and thus extended the contract of the HC mutiple times

Bob is making money hand over fist, and changing head coaches is, in his words, a traumatic experience.

Accountability will come when the profit margin reduces to a point that he finds unacceptable. Last time that was after a 2-14 season, so his tolerance is much wider than most fans would like to believe.

I will always be grateful to McNair for the obvious. However, I do not wear blinders that he values championships more than a successful business. Perhaps he believes Kubiak can bring a championship and is willing to give him infinite patience up to the point that it is undermining his successful business. In that case, we basically have a Marvin Lewis doppelganger front office and Kubiak has to fail spectacularly to be released.

Does anyone believe that McNair would clean house if this team goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs? I do not hold that belief at this time based on the franchise's short history.

TexansSeminole
10-10-2013, 03:37 PM
Bob is making money hand over fist, and changing head coaches is, in his words, a traumatic experience.

Accountability will come when the profit margin reduces to a point that he finds unacceptable. Last time that was after a 2-14 season, so his tolerance is much wider than most fans would like to believe.

I will always be grateful to McNair for the obvious. However, I do not wear blinders that he values championships more than a successful business. Perhaps he believes Kubiak can bring a championship and is willing to give him infinite patience up to the point that it is undermining his successful business. In that case, we basically have a Marvin Lewis doppelganger front office and Kubiak has to fail spectacularly to be released.

Does anyone believe that McNair would clean house if this team goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs? I do not hold that belief at this time based on the franchise's short history.

No. I don't even see Kubiak getting fired after a 7-9 season. We are going to need a dramatic collapse in order to see change here. We seem to be in the beginning stages of that now, so we'll see.

thunderkyss
10-10-2013, 03:49 PM
Does anyone believe that McNair would clean house if this team goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs? I do not hold that belief at this time based on the franchise's short history.

I'm positive he won't & I'm not sure that would be the best course of action.

Since January, they've pretty much put the bulls-eye on Schaub. This is his year, make or break. He'll have to do something to make them believe he can take us where we want to go.

infantrycak
10-10-2013, 04:16 PM
But I will agree with your conclusion. If you cherry pick Kubiak's two best years and use the criteria you chose, only 8 coaches (one third of the league, two whole divisions worth) were better than him.

Picking the most recent two years is not cherry picking. 100% guaranteed every GM and owner in the league would view differently an HC who went to two playoffs and missed the next five rather than one who missed five and then went to the last two playoffs.

It isn't 8 better coaches. Only 4 coaches advanced further (which is one eighth of the league).

There is a reason you don't see HCs dumped after 2 playoff seasons. Name some who were? I will spare you the trouble, Schottenheimer was coming off 1 and Jimmy Johnson resigned. Got anyone?

Double Barrel
10-10-2013, 04:24 PM
There is a reason you don't see HCs dumped after 2 playoff seasons. Name some who were? I will spare you the trouble, Schottenheimer was coming off 1 and Jimmy Johnson resigned. Got anyone?

yep. Add Bum Phillips to that list.

So I have to ask Houston fans: Do you really want McNair acting like Bud Adams???

disaacks3
10-10-2013, 04:26 PM
Picking the most recent two years is not cherry picking. 100% guaranteed every GM and owner in the league would view differently an HC who went to two playoffs and missed the next five rather than one who missed five and then went to the last two playoffs.

It isn't 8 better coaches. Only 4 coaches advanced further (which is one eighth of the league). 5 (Ravens, Pats, Falcons, 49ers, Giants) all advanced out of the divisional round over 2011-2012 seasons.

It's still not close to 8.

TexansSeminole
10-10-2013, 04:33 PM
yep. Add Bum Phillips to that list.

So I have to ask Houston fans: Do you really want McNair acting like Bud Adams???

I like Kubiak, my only problem is his loyalty to Schaub. He's handled this thing pretty poorly in regards to assigning blame, assuming the halftime report was correct during the SF game. He is the head coach, so he knows more than we do about his backups, but it's just so difficult to watch Schaub out there right now.

Runner
10-10-2013, 04:50 PM
Picking the most recent two years is not cherry picking. 100% guaranteed every GM and owner in the league would view differently an HC who went to two playoffs and missed the next five rather than one who missed five and then went to the last two playoffs.

It isn't 8 better coaches. Only 4 coaches advanced further (which is one eighth of the league).

There is a reason you don't see HCs dumped after 2 playoff seasons. Name some who were? I will spare you the trouble, Schottenheimer was coming off 1 and Jimmy Johnson resigned. Got anyone?

I used his 68% number to come up with 8. I'm still not sure he he came up with it.

Anyway, this is about accountability and the lack thereof. I think there was a lack of accountability in years four and five of Kubiak's regime. I certainly don't think Kubiak should have been fired after the playoff seasons. I just don't think two playoff appearances makes him a great coach.

However, in my non-football professional's opinion, we've seen Kubiak's peak with this team. I see this team receding and other teams in the division getting better. We will see how it plays out.

dalemurphy
10-10-2013, 04:59 PM
This. Keshawn Martin fumbled and recovered it himself. The next punt return Keo was back there.

Tate is the backup... Keshawn Martin is one of many punt return options...

Replacing a few Tate carries with Arian Foster or pulling Martin for one punt return has nothing in common with replacing the starting QB... nor with benching the only kicker on the team for a couple of kicks... Who would you use? Lechler?... Neither Tate nor Martin lost their roster spot nor depth on the team.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 05:07 PM
I used his 68% number to come up with 8. I'm still not sure he he came up with it.

Anyway, this is about accountability and the lack thereof. I think there was a lack of accountability in years four and five of Kubiak's regime. I certainly don't think Kubiak should have been fired after the playoff seasons. I just don't think two playoff appearances makes him a great coach.

However, in my non-football professional's opinion, we've seen Kubiak's peak with this team. I see this team receding and other teams in the division getting better. We will see how it plays out.




7 other teams made it as far or farther than we did last year and the year before thats where I got 8. What Cak pointed out is that only 4 teams each season made it farther than us

thunderkyss
10-10-2013, 06:09 PM
I like Kubiak, my only problem is his loyalty to Schaub.


I'm upset that Schaub hasn't been benched for his performance on the field. Being that we weren't trying to win last Sunday when Tj came in, I look at that more as giving up, than benching Schaub.

That said, If we started this year thinking we were going to the Super Bowl with Matt Schaub, it doesn't make a lot of sense to want to give up on him so "quickly." I know a three game losing streak isn't "quickly" & 4 consecutive games throwing a pick 6 isn't quickly. I get wanting to bench him to see if that gets his head into the game, but ready to move on doesn't seem rational.

Then everyone wanting to leapfrog Tj & go straight to Case makes me believe this is deeper than objective analysis of Schaub's play. He threw 6 bad balls that I can think of. The three INTs, the one Eric Reed should have picked, one he missed Andre wide open on our second drive, just before the OD holding penalty, & another he missed a wide open Andre (can't remember the specifics).

Other than that he looked pretty accurate, ball had plenty of spin, plenty of zip. I can't really tell how he did on his reads. He was active outside the pocket... looked pretty confident.

I've never been overly confident that Schaub would lead us to a Super Bowl. I had little doubt that we could win one with him. I still believe he is a better day-to-day QB than Flacco & Eli & if they can win, Schaub can. (However, I think both QBs have shown themselves to be much, much tougher than Schaub. Where Schaub seems rattled under pressure, those two stand tall.)

If Kubiak decided to move on, I'd have been fine with that. He didn't, I'm fine with that. But like I said before, he better be right.


He's handled this thing pretty poorly in regards to assigning blame, assuming the halftime report was correct during the SF game.

He's usually pretty good at crafting his coachspeak. I think I understand what he meant, because I think the same, but I couldn't believe he said what he said.

steelbtexan
10-10-2013, 06:42 PM
A coach going 8-8 may be okay and it may not it certainly depends on many factors. Like the Texans making it to the second round of the playoffs despite the loss of Schaub, Johnson and Williams. On an adjusted basis I would say that was well overperforming. Making it to the second round of the playoffs puts your team's performance besting 68.75% of the league. The level of talent on the team is better ranked by folks who do this for a living rather than fans. Also the expectations and how things run are probably better handled by McNair as a bussiness man vs random fans.

After 8 yrs 68.75% isn't good enough

Lets also talk about Gary's W/L and hiring on the defensive side of the ball before Wade was forced on him by BoB.

Obviously BoB sets his evaluation bar at OK is good enough. If this weren't true he would've fired Gary after the highly acclaimed 9-7 2009 season or the 6-10 2010 season. But really why would BoB ever fire Gary when the stands will always be full of Aggies every Sunday and they are more than willing to give their $$$$ to BoB because 68.75% is good enough for the Aggies to support one of their own. I mean schucks Gary's a good ole boy and that's good enough.

I mean does Gary with his conservative style really suprise you that he has won 68.75% of his games. Gary is a modern day Marty Schottenheimer. (Atcually he's not that good) He's good enough to get you to the dance, but dont expect to be winning a ACF championship game or a SB.

But it isn't good enough for me. Not that that matters at all to BoB.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 07:16 PM
After 8 yrs 68.75% isn't good enough

Lets also talk about Gary's W/L and hiring on the defensive side of the ball before Wade was forced on him by BoB.

Obviously BoB sets his evaluation bar at OK is good enough. If this weren't true he would've fired Gary after the highly acclaimed 9-7 2009 season or the 6-10 2010 season. But really why would BoB ever fire Gary when the stands will always be full of Aggies every Sunday and they are more than willing to give their $$$$ to BoB because 68.75% is good enough for the Aggies to support one of their own. I mean schucks Gary's a good ole boy and that's good enough.

I mean does Gary with his conservative style really suprise you that he has won 68.75% of his games. Gary is a modern day Marty Schottenheimer. (Atcually he's not that good) He's good enough to get you to the dance, but dont expect to be winning a ACF championship game or a SB.

But it isn't good enough for me. Not that that matters at all to BoB.


So after 6 years with the texans Gary should be a top 4 performer every year ?

Runner
10-10-2013, 08:23 PM
So after 6 years with the texans Gary should be a top 4 performer every year ?

It really all depends how you want to look at it. Are two playoff appearances in 7 years - 29% - good enough?

Is 2 more for his next 7 years good enough? If not, why not?

Yes he has had one good and one very good year. That has earned him some time, but I don't see a consistently high performing team. If this fall continues this season and next and he misses the playoffs, do they extend him again because he went to the playoffs twice in a row?

BullNation4Life
10-10-2013, 08:30 PM
Accountability?

On this team?

with THIS coach?


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/wtf.gif

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 08:37 PM
It really all depends how you want to look at it. Are two playoff appearances in 7 years - 29% - good enough?

Is 2 more for his next 7 years good enough? If not, why not?

Yes he has had one good and one very good year. That has earned him some time, but I don't see a consistently high performing team. If this fall continues this season and next and he misses the playoffs, do they extend him again because he went to the playoffs twice in a row?



Your current problem is his good and very good years are the last two and now we question accountability

Runner
10-10-2013, 08:59 PM
Your current problem is his good and very good years are the last two and now we question accountability

The accountability was brought up because of Schaub's recent problems. I pointed out that I thought there was a lack of accountability in Kubiak's middle years when he was extended. You brought the focus to his two good years.

2012Champs
10-10-2013, 09:05 PM
The accountability was brought up because of Schaub's recent problems. I pointed out that I thought there was a lack of accountability in Kubiak's middle years when he was extended. You brought the focus to his two good years.


Or maybe the texans' staff has a much better understanding of the talent on their team and thus your perceived lack of accountability could be simply giving yourself the best chance to win


And based of my question you certainly did pick up the discussion of Gary's performance

dalemurphy
10-10-2013, 09:14 PM
The accountability was brought up because of Schaub's recent problems. I pointed out that I thought there was a lack of accountability in Kubiak's middle years when he was extended. You brought the focus to his two good years.

You are confusing accountability with being reactionary and impatient. Kubiak demands accountability from his players and himself... accountability is a central theme of this organization... The fact that he doesn't throw his players under the bus to protect his reputation or create a scapegoat is honorable and good for the health of the team. Just because he doesn't throw a fit and bench or humiliate a player after a bad performance does not mean he is okay with it... It simply means that he believes that player remains the teams best option at the position to win.

As with all coaches, sometimes his assessment is wrong. IMO, better to error on the side of patience and trust then to quit on a guy too soon.

I will agree that Kubiak struggles to honestly assess his players. That is why Rick smiths increased power after 2010 has led to better results. Still, I don't think he should bench schaub yet. I still think MS is this teams best chance to win big this year, if he can work through whatever is going on.

Exascor
10-10-2013, 09:24 PM
You are confusing accountability with being reactionary and impatient. Kubiak demands accountability from his players and himself... accountability is a central theme of this organization... The fact that he doesn't throw his players under the bus to protect his reputation or create a scapegoat is honorable and good for the health of the team. Just because he doesn't throw a fit and bench or humiliate a player after a bad performance does not mean he is okay with it... It simply means that he believes that player remains the teams best option at the position to win.

As with all coaches, sometimes his assessment is wrong. IMO, better to error on the side of patience and trust then to quit on a guy too soon.

I will agree that Kubiak struggles to honestly assess his players. That is why Rick smiths increased power after 2010 has led to better results. Still, I don't think he should bench schaub yet. I still think MS is this teams best chance to win big this year, if he can work through whatever is going on.

Great post.

bOODRO87
10-10-2013, 09:45 PM
Heads will roll if we lose one of these next two. I'm glad Gary picked Matt because these guys make millions and should go down with the ship if they don't make the playoffs. Something they actually have a very good chance of doing. If you can't live up to your expectations, especially with the talent they have, then GTFO. I'm tired of this politically correct, good ol' boy stance they've taken since the losing streak. Schaub should be saying "I, I've, myself " in those interviews instead of Kubiak.

It's the mentality of those two. It's not made for today's NFL and it will never go far. Houston should throw a parade in honor of Daryl Morey for saving Houston sports this year.

Texecutioner
10-10-2013, 10:09 PM
Your current problem is his good and very good years are the last two and now we question accountability

What in the hell does his last two years have to do with accountability? You say this as if two good years means accountability from the coach. It doesn't at all, and that is the biggest thing that Gary has always lacked is accountability with his players and his coaches he chooses. These last two seasons being good years has nothing to do with what will happen in the future. And right now Gary is still showing that he clearly knows zilch about accountability and his loyalty to Schaub is stronger then his loyalty to this entire franchise and team and fans. It's the same thing that has plagued the Texas Longhorns for the last 12 years with Mack Brown. Gary may be an Aggie, but he has always been the Mack Brown of the NFL.

Texecutioner
10-10-2013, 10:10 PM
Heads will roll if we lose one of these next two. I'm glad Gary picked Matt because these guys make millions and should go down with the ship if they don't make the playoffs. Something they actually have a very good chance of doing. If you can't live up to your expectations, especially with the talent they have, then GTFO. I'm tired of this politically correct, good ol' boy stance they've taken since the losing streak. Schaub should be saying "I, I've, myself " in those interviews instead of Kubiak.

It's the mentality of those two. It's not made for today's NFL and it will never go far. Houston should throw a parade in honor of Daryl Morey for saving Houston sports this year.

Heads are not going to roll. Heads have never rolled with this organization. It starts from the top on down with Bob and then on down to Kubiak. Kubiak can lose the rest of the games this season and he is most likely the HC next year.

dalemurphy
10-10-2013, 10:15 PM
Heads are not going to roll. Heads have never rolled with this organization. It starts from the top on down with Bob and then on down to Kubiak. Kubiak can lose the rest of the games this season and he is most likely the HC next year.

Head don't roll as fast as some would like.... However, these guys have turned over the roster a number of times because of performance and value.

Texecutioner
10-10-2013, 10:33 PM
Head don't roll as fast as some would like.... However, these guys have turned over the roster a number of times because of performance and value.

That isn't true and you know it. Gary's history has been one of the worst coaches in the league at his blind loyalty to players that under perform and flat out hurt the team and ruin seasons, and yet he does it all over again with another player. Chris Brown, Kris Brown, JJ, Marciano, Smith, Schaub, Mario, Green, Walter, and etc. Man, I could go on and on. I've mentioned direct instances with several of these guys the year it happened and after. It's been predictable in so many situations as well. This situation with Schaub is the worst of all of them though. We didn't just barely lose the last game due to Schaub. We got smoked in the last game by a team that wasn't playing that well on offense. That game was winnable and the Seattle game was won. Kubiak has already blown this season with this stuff. That is the exact kind of thing coaches are supposed to get fired over. And Gary still won't let go of Schaub even now.

Runner
10-10-2013, 10:52 PM
You are confusing accountability with being reactionary and impatient.
...
As with all coaches, sometimes his assessment is wrong. IMO, better to error on the side of patience and trust then to quit on a guy too soon.
...


No more than you confuse patience and trust with fear of change.



Believe it or not, I have some understanding of what the word accountability means.

BullNation4Life
10-10-2013, 10:54 PM
Head don't roll as fast as some would like.... However, these guys have turned over the roster a number of times because of performance and value.

and for some coaches, not at all because Joe Marciano is STILL a coach for this team....


Nuff said....

Runner
10-10-2013, 10:56 PM
I doubt heads would roll if Kubiak went 2-14.

Which makes me wonder - why did Capers only get five years? He's a good guy. Knows football. Weird. :sarcasm:

steelbtexan
10-10-2013, 11:00 PM
You are confusing accountability with being reactionary and impatient. Kubiak demands accountability from his players and himself... accountability is a central theme of this organization... The fact that he doesn't throw his players under the bus to protect his reputation or create a scapegoat is honorable and good for the health of the team. Just because he doesn't throw a fit and bench or humiliate a player after a bad performance does not mean he is okay with it... It simply means that he believes that player remains the teams best option at the position to win.

As with all coaches, sometimes his assessment is wrong. IMO, better to error on the side of patience and trust then to quit on a guy too soon.

I will agree that Kubiak struggles to honestly assess his players. That is why Rick smiths increased power after 2010 has led to better results. Still, I don't think he should bench schaub yet. I still think MS is this teams best chance to win big this year, if he can work through whatever is going on.

After reading your 1st sentence in this post, I couldn't read anymore because I was LMAO.

Impatience (Really?) after 8 yrs?

steelbtexan
10-10-2013, 11:05 PM
and for some coaches, not at all because Joe Marciano is STILL a coach for this team....


Nuff said....

Richard Smith, Frank Bush, David Gibbs etc......

infantrycak
10-10-2013, 11:06 PM
I doubt heads would roll if Kubiak went 2-14.

Which makes me wonder - why did Capers only get five years? He's a good guy. Knows football. Weird. :sarcasm:

Maybe you have your own theory. I think Palmer was Capers' undoing with the way that was handled and then bringing in an antiquated friend.

TexansFight
10-10-2013, 11:09 PM
You are confusing accountability with being reactionary and impatient. Kubiak demands accountability from his players and himself... accountability is a central theme of this organization... The fact that he doesn't throw his players under the bus to protect his reputation or create a scapegoat is honorable and good for the health of the team. Just because he doesn't throw a fit and bench or humiliate a player after a bad performance does not mean he is okay with it... It simply means that he believes that player remains the teams best option at the position to win.

As with all coaches, sometimes his assessment is wrong. IMO, better to error on the side of patience and trust then to quit on a guy too soon.

I will agree that Kubiak struggles to honestly assess his players. That is why Rick smiths increased power after 2010 has led to better results. Still, I don't think he should bench schaub yet. I still think MS is this teams best chance to win big this year, if he can work through whatever is going on.

No basis in reality for your hopes. Schaub's problem from a degenerative physical condition with his Lisfranc that affects everything with regard to planting of his feet which has led to his loss of velocity and accuracy on his throws. Add the mental meltdown as well and we have a QB that is DONE. He is not going to turn this around. He has been horrible since we were 11-1 and it is just getting worse.

dalemurphy
10-10-2013, 11:14 PM
No basis in reality for your hopes. Schaub's problem from a degenerative physical condition with his Lisfranc that affects everything with regard to planting of his feet which has led to his loss of velocity and accuracy on his throws. Add the mental meltdown as well and we have a QB that is DONE. He is not going to turn this around. He has been horrible since we were 11-1 and it is just getting worse.

Perhaps. I don't have enough information to know if the foot is causing him problems this year. I do know that you are guessing that he is done. It is very possible that he turns it around. I certainly hope he does.

What is crazy is the idea that Kubiak knows he is finished but continues to play him out of loyalty. That is not true, of course! Maybe Kubiak is wrong in his assessment, but the idea that he is p,aging schaub out of loyalty to the teams detriment is crazy.

dalemurphy
10-10-2013, 11:18 PM
That isn't true and you know it. Gary's history has been one of the worst coaches in the league at his blind loyalty to players that under perform and flat out hurt the team and ruin seasons, and yet he does it all over again with another player. Chris Brown, Kris Brown, JJ, Marciano, Smith, Schaub, Mario, Green, Walter, and etc.

Other than Marciano, I dont see a good example listed... Well, Richard smith would be a clear mistake. He should have been dumped after 2007
. Otherwise, that list is full of players the team sent packing as soon as it made sense to do so.

Texecutioner
10-10-2013, 11:28 PM
Other than Marciano, I dont see a good example listed... Well, Richard smith would be a clear mistake. He should have been dumped after 2007
. Otherwise, that list is full of players the team sent packing as soon as it made sense to do so.

It didn't make sense to get rid of JJ before that awful 2nd contract? Yeah, he only dropped a ton more punts and kick offs and continued to fail to become a decent receiver as a #2 or a #3. We won't even go there on the Ravens game.

YOu were the worst complainer of Mario, and it wasn't that hard to see that the Texans weren't going to pay that kind of money for that kind of production. Don't even try and change that now.

Both of the Browns cost the Texans their first playoff season, and both had no business playing in games towards the latter part of the season. Kubiak's trust in Chris Brown the RB was atrocious. The guy literally did nothing positive for this team at any point and would be handed the keys to the car at the most important parts of the game to blow it all up. Kubiak's worst season of coaching in his history.

As for the rest, I'd probably be wasting my time typing because like always you will always spin Kubiak's failures as long as he is coaching here. You have proven that for years. The next guy will get the same treatment when he coaches here from you as long as he is employed here. But, to act like players on this team weren't coddled in several cases is just funny at this point.

What is the current excuse for Schaub just for chits and giggles?

Runner
10-10-2013, 11:50 PM
Maybe you have your own theory. I think Palmer was Capers' undoing with the way that was handled and then bringing in an antiquated friend.

I thought it was the other guy that was his undoing. What was his name - Pendry? Is that the antiquated friend you are talking about?

dalemurphy
10-11-2013, 12:29 AM
It didn't make sense to get rid of JJ before that awful 2nd contract? Yeah, he only dropped a ton more punts and kick offs and continued to fail to become a decent receiver as a #2 or a #3. We won't even go there on the Ravens game.

YOu were the worst complainer of Mario, and it wasn't that hard to see that the Texans weren't going to pay that kind of money for that kind of production. Don't even try and change that now.

Both of the Browns cost the Texans their first playoff season, and both had no business playing in games towards the latter part of the season. Kubiak's trust in Chris Brown the RB was atrocious. The guy literally did nothing positive for this team at any point and would be handed the keys to the car at the most important parts of the game to blow it all up. Kubiak's worst season of coaching in his history.

As for the rest, I'd probably be wasting my time typing because like always you will always spin Kubiak's failures as long as he is coaching here. You have proven that for years. The next guy will get the same treatment when he coaches here from you as long as he is employed here. But, to act like players on this team weren't coddled in several cases is just funny at this point.

What is the current excuse for Schaub just for chits and giggles?

You are right about my opinion of Mario... And Kubiak/smith got rid of him when it made sense to. Chris brown was cut when it made sense as well. It was a bad signing, but that is not the same as be too loyal.

No excuse for schaub a performance the past couple games, nor was his performance at the end of last year acceptable. I just agree with Kubiak that schaub turning things around is more likely than Yates jumping in and leading this team deep into the playoffs.

infantrycak
10-11-2013, 12:34 AM
I thought it was the other guy that was his undoing. What was his name - Pendry? Is that the antiquated friend you are talking about?

That's him. He had been out of coaching for 5 years and was running a bed & breakfast or something when Capers called him. I wanted to shoot Pendry when he stuck Riley in at LT.

I also think being a defensive guru who couldn't build a D hurt him, and now he and Fangio have gone on to have success as DCs.

Kubiak's trust in Chris Brown the RB was atrocious. The guy literally did nothing positive for this team at any point and would be handed the keys to the car at the most important parts of the game to blow it all up.

I can't see the Chris Brown situation as anything other than bad luck and certainly not some sort of atrocious amount of trust. He was only with the Texans 1 year. He was the 3rd RB. The most attempts he had in a game was 11. Slaton, Moats and Foster all had more fumbles per attempt.

Lucky
10-11-2013, 01:01 AM
Kubiak demands accountability from his players and himself... accountability is a central theme of this organization...
A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 05:48 AM
Heads will roll if we lose one of these next two.

I think we should follow the example of the NYGiants. we've got a two game lead on them, & they're basically going through the same problem we are. Those guys won 2 Super Bowls, so surely they've got their sht together & are making sound decisions.

They never even considered changing their QB, Eli just threw 3 more INTs, one being a pick 6..... they are 0-6. If Coughlin still has a job Monday, if Eli is still the starting QB... we'll know what to expect if Schaub throws another INT this weekend.

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 06:14 AM
Maybe you have your own theory. I think Palmer was Capers' undoing with the way that was handled and then bringing in an antiquated friend.

Dan Reeves came in & assessed the situation with McNair. We thought he was here to tell McNair if he had a coaching issue, or a talent issue. McNair cleaned house. Chances are Reeves told him those guys weren't conducive to building a strong organization capable of winning Championship.

2012Champs
10-11-2013, 08:01 AM
A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.

What's the drop off between your 2nd and 3rd rb?

What's the drop off between your 1st and 2nd qb?

Those are the questions the staff went over and their actions dictate what they think

dalemurphy
10-11-2013, 08:50 AM
A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.

Schaub has been in the top 20% of the NFL in almost every passing category and in win-loss percentage until this year. He has had three bad games in a row... following two comeback wins that he orchestrated.. I assume you are talking about the 4 games in a row with a INT return for TD... breaking Peyton Manning's record of 3, I think.

Are you suggesting the Colts should have benched Manning when he owned that record? Do you honestly think that Schaub will be the QB all year if this continues or that he will be given the starting job next year if he doesn't turn it around?

What should the Giants do about Eli Manning?

By the way, Kubiak dumped Carr after one season with him- Carr's best statistical season. I don't get where you guys come up with these peculiar conclusions.

Trail.Blazr
10-11-2013, 09:05 AM
What's the drop off between your 2nd and 3rd rb?

What's the drop off between your 1st and 2nd qb?

Those are the questions the staff went over and their actions dictate what they think

If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?

I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.

What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?

Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...

It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.

2012Champs
10-11-2013, 09:24 AM
If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?



Its not is there a drop off. There should always be a drop off between your first and second guy or second and third. However it is the measure of the degree of the drop off impacts the team. Benching Foster isnt the worst thing in the world given Tate's ability to perform better or relatively on par with Foster. Likewise sitting Tate for a fumble and giving Foster more snaps certainly doesnt impact the game much either


I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.


It is exactly the value of the position and the difference between our 1 and 2 RB or our 2 and 3rd is near zero when you compare it to the difference between our 1 and 2 Qb



What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?


Matt hasnt done anything great but what he has done is post 8 TDs and while the 9 ints hurt and have cost us games Yates isnt tossing 8 TDs in 5 games. In TJs 7 starts he had 4 TDs 6 Ints. For Yates the subset of data is small but not so for Matt. Matt's data would suggest that his poor performance at this point is abnormal.


Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...


Are we doing Ring adjusted stats? Eli's 9 TDs 15 ints a fumble and 0-6 are better than Matt's 8 TDs 9 Ints and a 2-3 record?




It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.




The point of having a backup QB is a replacement in the case of injury and usually is a signal the season is over.

dalemurphy
10-11-2013, 09:27 AM
If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?

I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.

What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?

Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...

It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.

Yes. This is the modern NFL. A teams only real hope is tied to the health and play of its starting QB. For any legitimate shot, we need the QB to play at the level schaub was playing at in 2011 before his injury. I don't think Yates can do that this year... Hopefully, schaub can.

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 09:47 AM
What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.

It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.

badboy
10-11-2013, 10:08 AM
It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.I think Gary looked at rest of schedule and thought MS can get well physically and mentally against these teams. I sure hope it works. My question is will he have a quicker hook on Schaub?

Carr Bombed
10-11-2013, 10:12 AM
I think we should follow the example of the NYGiants. we've got a two game lead on them, & they're basically going through the same problem we are. Those guys won 2 Super Bowls, so surely they've got their sht together & are making sound decisions.

They never even considered changing their QB, Eli just threw 3 more INTs, one being a pick 6..... they are 0-6. If Coughlin still has a job Monday, if Eli is still the starting QB... we'll know what to expect if Schaub throws another INT this weekend.

The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.

dalemurphy
10-11-2013, 10:15 AM
The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.

If a players resume is so important, why on earth would anyone consider starting Yates or keenum over schaub?

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 10:15 AM
My question is will he have a quicker hook on Schaub?

I think if he had chose to go with Tj/Case, he would have to be patient with them & not be too quick to yank them. Schaub.. maybe not so patient, but he shouldn't yank him after one INT.

If we go three qtrs without scoring like the SF game & he throws an INT.... I'm all for it. But I think he should have been benched against Seattle. We'd be two weeks removed from where we are right now. Even if his decision was to go back to Schaub for the SF game. He should have been benched at pick 6 in the Seattle game.

If I didn't bench him during the Seattle game I'd have benched him after the first pass play of the SF game.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/Pick6-2_zps3913ca02.png

Carr Bombed
10-11-2013, 10:17 AM
It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.

Ill take the Chiefs defense over the Titans.. their secondary is going to feast on Schaub and they can generate a consistent pass rush with their front. I expect another pick 6 in that game.

2012Champs
10-11-2013, 10:22 AM
The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.



A super bowl mvp QB down to an 0-6 starter with 15 ints and a fumble is certainly a greater fall and a middle of the pack QB 2-3 starter with 9 ints. Matt certainly has to do less work to get back to the norm

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 10:34 AM
Ill take the Chiefs defense over the Titans.. their secondary is going to feast on Schaub and the can generate a consistent pass rush with their front. I expect another pick 6 in that game.

& if that doesn't happen, what does that mean?

Nothing. When the game is over, & there was no pick 6, you'll be on my side saying the KC Chiefs defense wasn't that great. They look good playing Romo.... they won't look so good when it's all said & done with. I doubt they'll finish top 10.

Trail.Blazr
10-11-2013, 10:35 AM
Matt hasnt done anything great but what he has done is post 8 TDs and while the 9 ints hurt and have cost us games Yates isnt tossing 8 TDs in 5 games. In TJs 7 starts he had 4 TDs 6 Ints. For Yates the subset of data is small but not so for Matt. Matt's data would suggest that his poor performance at this point is abnormal. You nailed the answer.. was no need to try and outdo yourself..
Past that, I saw stats, incorrect stats at that. From which didn't address the question of what has Matt done?
This is not a comparison of TJ to Schaub Per se, but since you brought it up.. TJ actually has 5 games started(not 7), to which his numbers are very similar to Schaub's last 5 games. I think you'll find one wins by a nose. Disturbing when comparing a rookie's stats to a 10 year veteran.

And, by the way, Matt's 5 game data still remains on par with 7 games prior to that. This isn't a recent epiphany that Schaub is no longer his pre 2011 self.


Are we doing Ring adjusted stats? Eli's 9 TDs 15 ints a fumble and 0-6 are better than Matt's 8 TDs 9 Ints and a 2-3 record?


Rings aren't stats.. they are trophies, indicative of greatness. The comparison wasn't to illustrate who's the better bad player right now, but as you well understand it was to lay credence as to why Eli's accomplishments warrant a longer leash so to speak, which tie into accountability. One HAS to account for Eli's trip to disney world. What do we have to accont for Matt? That he once was a top 10 QB in many statistics back in 2011? Great! Let's jump in the ol' time machine and grab that guy! To suggest he's amongst us now is a real stretch. All thing considered, from an accountability stand point, I can only conclude that Yates and Keenum must be REAALY horrible, as the only real tangible truth we've got is right now, if Schaub remains the best option under center, it's going to be a looooong season.

Trail.Blazr
10-11-2013, 10:38 AM
If a players resume is so important, why on earth would anyone consider starting Yates or keenum over schaub?



Again, what does Schaub have on his resume other than as you indicate, before injury in 2011 he was good?

Resume has little to do with it. Accountability would suggest, Schaub's past accomplishments have outlived his current entitlement.

dalemurphy
10-11-2013, 10:46 AM
Again, what does Schaub have on his resume other than as you indicate, before injury in 2011 he was good?

Resume has little to do with it. Accountability would suggest, Schaub's past accomplishments have outlived his current entitlement.

No entitlement... Coach still believes he is best option on the roster. Agree or not, it is a reasonable position to have. Why assume the worst motives?

So many fans want to displace their disappointment with anger... How about just being disappointed for a while... Then,see what happens instead of creating a villain or villains out of the same people you are wanting to succeed.

Trail.Blazr
10-11-2013, 11:00 AM
No entitlement... Coach still believes he is best option on the roster. Agree or not, it is a reasonable position to have. Why assume the worst motives?

So many fans want to displace their disappointment with anger... How about just being disappointed for a while... Then,see what happens instead of creating a villain or villains out of the same people you are wanting to succeed.

Well said.

what's a while?

2012Champs
10-11-2013, 11:02 AM
You nailed the answer.. was no need to try and outdo yourself..
Past that, I saw stats, incorrect stats at that. From which didn't address the question of what has Matt done?
This is not a comparison of TJ to Schaub Per se, but since you brought it up.. TJ actually has 5 games started(not 7), to which his numbers are very similar to Schaub's last 5 games. I think you'll find one wins by a nose. Disturbing when comparing a rookie's stats to a 10 year veteran.

And, by the way, Matt's 5 game data still remains on par with 7 games prior to that. This isn't a recent epiphany that Schaub is no longer his pre 2011 self.


TJ has started 7 games in the nfl, played 7.5 and has gone 4 td 6 ints
Matt the last 12 starts is 13 tds 14 ints. To help you that would put TJ less than 7 and over 10 ints


[
Rings aren't stats.. they are trophies, indicative of greatness. The comparison wasn't to illustrate who's the better bad player right now, but as you well understand it was to lay credence as to why Eli's accomplishments warrant a longer leash so to speak, which tie into accountability. One HAS to account for Eli's trip to disney world. What do we have to accont for Matt? That he once was a top 10 QB in many statistics back in 2011? Great! Let's jump in the ol' time machine and grab that guy! To suggest he's amongst us now is a real stretch. All thing considered, from an accountability stand point, I can only conclude that Yates and Keenum must be REAALY horrible, as the only real tangible truth we've got is right now, if Schaub remains the best option under center, it's going to be a looooong season.



How much worse has Eli done than Schaub? How much extra leash does Eli get?

Vinny
10-11-2013, 12:42 PM
Eli's line has been awful and they have a guy who was out of the NFL as their feature back right now. Not making excuses, but Eli is a risk taker and drives the ball downfield. Schaub can't make those throws and has better protection than Manning.

HOU-TEX
10-11-2013, 12:50 PM
Eli's line has been awful and they have a guy who was out of the NFL as their feature back right now. Not making excuses, but Eli is a risk taker and drives the ball downfield. Schaub can't make those throws and has better protection than Manning.

Yeah, the Giants oline's a hot mess. Booth (think that's his name) is the only cat worth a lick

deucetx
10-11-2013, 12:51 PM
How much worse has Eli done than Schaub? How much extra leash does Eli get?

Quite a bit because he has rings and won one of them not too long ago. Whether we like it or not that does go a long way. Not to mention their division is horrible and even at 0-6 they aren't out of it though I still think it would take a miracle. But if you win that ring it changes things and Schaub has yet to accomplish this.

Plus there is the addition of who is behind them. Schaub has Yates who has past experience on the field including playoff time and has been in the system 3 years now. Keenum is the other with two years in the system. Both had strong preseasons.

Eli has Curtis Painter who I don't think even played in '12 and isn't as familiar with the Giants system. The other is a rookie who looked like utter crap in the preseason. In fact, both of them were pretty bad. Even David Carr played better though ended up being the one cut.

So one of these two teams have a better option than the other. Secondly, you have surrounding personnel. One is rather stacked with talent and the other has a middling roster. Even on a NFL article yesterday about underachieving teams who do you think the top two were? Falcons at #1 and Texans at #2. The talent on this roster is evident. Despite folks being surprised the Giants doing so bad the fact the Texans are not playing up to par weighs heavier because it is a team expected to do more.

Now in truth, I don't get into comparing my teams to other teams. Different situations and personnel. You shouldn't expect your team to react the same way another does. But we shouldn't be sitting here trying to act like it is a black/white situation in these comparison when it obviously is not.

DX-TEX
10-11-2013, 12:56 PM
How much worse has Eli done than Schaub? How much extra leash does Eli get?

http://i.imgur.com/6lztfHm.gif

2 Superbowls that when you look back on their respective seasons they had no right being in and he won them. Schaub can hang his hat on his Pro Bowl MVP....

Carr Bombed
10-11-2013, 12:58 PM
A super bowl mvp QB down to an 0-6 starter with 15 ints and a fumble is certainly a greater fall and a middle of the pack QB 2-3 starter with 9 ints. Matt certainly has to do less work to get back to the norm

I think you missed the entire point of my post, My post had nothing to do with returning to norm. Point is Eli has built up capital in NY whereas Schaub has not here. That's why Eli will be able to survive his horrific season and if Schaub doesn't turn it around soon he's going to be playing out his final downs as a starting NFL QB. He also should have a easier time returning to normal since normal for him is mediocre to average QB.

Carr Bombed
10-11-2013, 01:23 PM
& if that doesn't happen, what does that mean?

Nothing. When the game is over, & there was no pick 6, you'll be on my side saying the KC Chiefs defense wasn't that great. They look good playing Romo.... they won't look so good when it's all said & done with. I doubt they'll finish top 10.

Umm.. no, if the pick 6 doesn't happen I still won't be on your side, because the Chiefs are the better defensive team and have been for about 3 seasons running. They have probowl talent at every level in their defense and are one of the top young defenses in the NFL. They're simply better than the Titans and have more talent.

Double Barrel
10-11-2013, 01:39 PM
I have no particular insight into the inner operations of the Texans FO, so I'm not going to speculate on accountability or lack thereof as it pertains to Kubiak and his players.

However, that being said, from an outsider perspective, the fact that Joe Marciano is still here speaks volumes about a perceived lack of accountability with this franchise. What the heck does that dude have to do to get fired?? Certainly fielding the worst special teams unit in the league won't do it, which is a bizarre disconnect that you rarely see in pro sports these days.

dalemurphy
10-11-2013, 01:52 PM
terrific post.



it is an entitlement. they just signed him to a brand spanking new contract and told off peyton manning before choosing schaub.

This is a political maneuver not to save the texans season and field the best team to win, but to field a team that doesnt make your general manager and head coach foolish for benching the guy they just gave a brand new contract to.

This is a political move to save face for rick smith and gary kubiak for giving schaub a new contract instead of peyton manning.

They made this bed and they have to sleep in it despite it having full of bed bugs and needing to be fumigated.

Your attempt to make a martyr out of matt is just plain pathetic. Nobody has a problem with schaub personally. The guy is a family man, a stand up citizen, and has never gotten in trouble in the law. He is a good guy and all of the criticism towards him are football related.

Spare us your fake indignation for the sake of protecting a quarterback not doing his job.

This is a business. People pay big money to see the texans plays. Fans have the right to show displeasure against a player holding a team back.

Its nothing personal, this is just business.




looooooooooooooooooooooool


The Peyton Manning argument is ridiculous. He had a career threatening injury that caused Indy to cut him loose. It was a high risk move. Also, the Texans would have had much difficulty fitting him into their cap and their would have been a lot of cap casualties that would have lasting effects on the roster's makeup.

Again, nobody is arguing that the Texans, nor any other team in the NFL, always make the perfect move. Simply, I am saying that the decision to play Schaub this week is not about a lack of accountability... Perhaps it is a bad decision. We will see. However, it is a decision, I am confident, with a view on the team's success this season.

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 01:53 PM
However, that being said, from an outsider perspective, the fact that Joe Marciano is still here speaks volumes about a perceived lack of accountability with this franchise. What the heck does that dude have to do to get fired?? Certainly fielding the worst special teams unit in the league won't do it, which is a bizarre disconnect that you rarely see in pro sports these days.

It appears to be similar to Richard Smith's last season here. They brought in Frank Bush, kept paying Richard Smith. Then after still fielding a poor defense, they fired him & promoted Frank Bush.

This year, they've brought in an assisstant to Marciano. I'm guessing if our STs doesn't improve, they'll fire him & name his assistant the ST Coach.

Mr teX
10-11-2013, 03:06 PM
The Peyton Manning argument is ridiculous. He had a career threatening injury that caused Indy to cut him loose. It was a high risk move. Also, the Texans would have had much difficulty fitting him into their cap and their would have been a lot of cap casualties that would have lasting effects on the roster's makeup.

Again, nobody is arguing that the Texans, nor any other team in the NFL, always make the perfect move. Simply, I am saying that the decision to play Schaub this week is not about a lack of accountability... Perhaps it is a bad decision. We will see. However, it is a decision, I am confident, with a view on the team's success this season.

Too many facts for some in here to process...we lost key guys in FA without having him on the books..imagine how many we likely would've lost if we'd offerd 96 million to Manning...essentially just under 20 million a year....

Not only would it have been a HUGE risk for the texans to offer a guy coming off 4 neck surgeries that, we probably would've lost a few of the key guys we eventually were able to resign...Meyers....Arian.....Cush.....

Carr Bombed
10-11-2013, 03:41 PM
If a players resume is so important, why on earth would anyone consider starting Yates or keenum over schaub?

Because Schaub's resume isn't accomplished at all and he's done very little to elevate himself from having his job taken from him by a entry level employee, especially if he can't consistently show up and perform at work.

Seriously though.. tell us all about "Schaub's resume".

2012Champs
10-11-2013, 03:44 PM
another lie. we didnt even bother entertaining the thought. to say we couldnt afford him is just downright dishonest. If you were serious about getting peyton you would make the necessary roster financial moves to make it happen.

we didnt because we chose matt schaub instead.


I hate the fact that i mentioned manning because i knew that would give you the out you need to not respond to the main point of my post:

That Rick Smith and Kubiak gave schaub a brand new contract and they dont want to look fooling publicly and admit a mistake by benching a guy they just gave a new contract to. That's why he's still starting and that is the very definition of entitlement. He's entitled to start because he just signed a big new contract. Smith and Kubiak want to save face.


Im not sure you are qualified to say it is a lie, nor are you qualified to speak about any level of communication the texans had in considering Manning or to what degree getting him would have impacted the team for years to come.

Carr Bombed
10-11-2013, 04:19 PM
Im all for finding Schaub's replacement, but Im also not going to be a revisionist historian and act like we had any realistic shot at signing Manning.. because we didn't. He didn't fit in our cap at the time and we would've had to purge this team of most of it's talent just to consider him.

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 05:06 PM
Im all for finding Schaub's replacement, but Im also not going to be a revisionist historian and act like we had any realistic shot at signing Manning.. because we didn't. He didn't fit in our cap at the time and we would've had to purge this team of most of it's talent just to consider him.

Not only that, but we're still Houston. It's like would you rather be the HC at USC or TAMU?

If the money is the same (& we weren't outbidding anybody) it's not too hard to find a "more attractive" offer. I think we're making strides & before long we'll be a "destination" but no way Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady are coming to Houston.

If he said he's interested, he's just fanning the bidding war he "said" he wasn't interested in.

dalemurphy
10-11-2013, 06:27 PM
Because Schaub's resume isn't accomplished at all and he's done very little to elevate himself from having his job taken from him by a entry level employee, especially if he can't consistently show up and perform at work.

Seriously though.. tell us all about "Schaub's resume".

Tell me about Yates' resume... Are you seriously arguing that Yates and keenum have proven as much in the NFL as Schaub?... That would be intellectually dishonest, to say the least.

My point was in reference to Eli manning. Someone argued that Eli's NFL resume justifies giving him more time despite his play... My point... If an NFL résumé Carries that much weight, then how could anyone want Yates to start over schaub... Yates has done much less in the nfl.

TexansSeminole
10-11-2013, 08:15 PM
Tell me about Yates' resume... Are you seriously arguing that Yates and keenum have proven as much in the NFL as Schaub?... That would be intellectually dishonest, to say the least.

My point was in reference to Eli manning. Someone argued that Eli's NFL resume justifies giving him more time despite his play... My point... If an NFL résumé Carries that much weight, then how could anyone want Yates to start over schaub... Yates has done much less in the nfl.

Resumes in the NFL are often about what players do when it matters.

2 Super Bowl victories >>>>>> 1 playoff win.

dalemurphy
10-11-2013, 09:20 PM
Resumes in the NFL are often about what players do when it matters.

2 Super Bowl victories >>>>>> 1 playoff win.

and if Eli Manning was in Houston, my guess is he would get the start over Schaub.

Carr Bombed
10-11-2013, 11:42 PM
Tell me about Yates' resume... Are you seriously arguing that Yates and keenum have proven as much in the NFL as Schaub?... That would be intellectually dishonest, to say the least.

My point was in reference to Eli manning. Someone argued that Eli's NFL resume justifies giving him more time despite his play... My point... If an NFL résumé Carries that much weight, then how could anyone want Yates to start over schaub... Yates has done much less in the nfl.

Wrong.. Yates has started much less games than Schaub, but he hasn't accomplished much less. Both players have one playoff appearance and one playoff win.

Hence why I asked you to describe "Schaub's resume". You act like he's led this team to perennial playoff appearances and winning seasons or something. I no longer just care about regular season success with this team, we should be beyond that and what I've learned from Schaub's resume is that with him at the helm we aren't going to have much postseason success.

You keep coddling Schaub and it needs to stop.. and this is coming from someone who doesn't even think Yates is the answer, however to act like a young guy (whoever that ends up being) shouldn't be pushing him, because Schaub has "accomplished more" in his 7 years of mediocrity is what is "intellectually dishonest".

More accomplished QBs are replaced by "young guys who don't have resumes" all the time. Schaub is currently playing himself out of a job regardless of what you feel of Yates or Keenum and even if he does salvage his season and holds on to the job this season.. I think it's pretty much safe to say he's already made it a certain Houston will be looking for his future replacement this offseason.

Carr Bombed
10-12-2013, 12:05 AM
and if Eli Manning was in Houston, my guess is he would get the start over Schaub.

And if Eli Manning was in Houston, had the same short comings as Schaub, and the same exact type of career as Schaub has had in Houston, my guess is people would start to question if it was time to part ways and move on... just like they have done with Schaub.

Lucky
10-12-2013, 12:11 AM
TJ has started 7 games in the nfl, played 7.5 and has gone 4 td 6 ints
Matt the last 12 starts is 13 tds 14 ints. To help you that would put TJ less than 7 and over 10 ints

That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?
Schaub has been in the top 20% of the NFL in almost every passing category and in win-loss percentage until this year.
Well, we are living in "this year". And it was Schaub's performance (or lack of) at the end of 2012 and the ensuing playoffs that led to concerns going into this season. Concerns that have been founded. I won't argue that the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 wasn't a solid (though not spectacular) NFL QB. That's not the Matt Schaub we see today. Not by a long shot.

dalemurphy
10-12-2013, 12:35 AM
That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?

Well, we are living in "this year". And it was Schaub's performance (or lack of) at the end of 2012 and the ensuing playoffs that led to concerns going into this season. Concerns that have been founded. I won't argue that the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 wasn't a solid (though not spectacular) NFL QB. That's not the Matt Schaub we see today. Not by a long shot.

1. That is exactly what NY Giant fans are saying about Eli Manning right now.

2. I agree. The issue, again, is that the coaching staff still believe it is more likely that Schaub can return to that form than they believe Yates or Keenum can perform at that level this year. That's all. No need to read more into it than that.

I have no problem with criticizing the Schaub re-signing coming of the 2011 injury. If he can't turn it around, it is that decision that will turn out to be very costly. Can't it simply be a mistake, though, instead of some character defect? Just because the Texan organization reaches different conclusions about players and situations than you do does not mean they aren't committed to winning- it means they see things differently.

dalemurphy
10-12-2013, 12:39 AM
Wrong.. Yates has started much less games than Schaub, but he hasn't accomplished much less.

That is not a credible statement.

How many of the great coaches and GMs in the NFL would agree with your assertion?

Hate to do it, but according to the formula you are using, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler accomplished more than Dan Marino... ridiculous, I know, but no more so than your assertion comparing Yates and Schaub.

thunderkyss
10-12-2013, 12:45 AM
That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?


Tj already looks better throwing to Jean & Martin. Then we've got DeAndre instead of KDub.

Our Receivers that year was Andre, Walter, Jacoby, Derrick Mason, & Bryant Johnson

This year he'll have Andre, Hopkins, Martin, Posey, Jean... they've got a lot to prove themselves, but I like their ceiling better than the other group.

Carr Bombed
10-12-2013, 01:19 AM
That is not a credible statement.

How many of the great coaches and GMs in the NFL would agree with your assertion?

Hate to do it, but according to the formula you are using, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler accomplished more than Dan Marino... ridiculous, I know, but no more so than your assertion comparing Yates and Schaub.

That is a credible statement (since I was talking about postseason success) as Schaub has only been to the playoffs once.. I repeat one time. So try again with your ridiculous Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler to Dan Marino (who had his Dolphins competing year in and year out) analogy that doesn't fit here. Not to mention Schaub's name should never be mentioned in the same breath as Dan Marino.

You are trying to put Schaub up on this pedestal like he's accomplished so much in this league and shouldn't be in the position to be pushed and that take is flat out ridiculous. He put up good stats for a few years, couldn't stay healthy other years, and is clearly CLEARLY NOT THE SAME QB that he was just a couple of seasons ago. Anybody who can plug in a tape from '09 can see that.

He's been starting here for 7 seasons... one playoff win vs. the Bengals and now when he throws a football it looks like it's boomerang, because lately it's been coming right back towards him..Yeah it's ridiculous to think that Schaub should be pushed for his job and possibly put on the bench. :rolleyes: Schaub hasn't accomplished nearly enough of what you Apparently think he has, where he can keep making these mistakes and not be held accountable.

P.S.

I'm so glad you brought up Trent Dilfer, because that's now where I put this current Matt Schaub.. in the Trent Dilfer and Rob Johnson class, except he's making mistakes. He's now in the "game manager" class of QBs, but he keeps making costly mistakes.

I used to stick up with Schaub and even didn't mind the weak arm, because he was at least accurate with the football and had decent ball placement, that's no longer the case. You can't have a weak arm and also be inaccurate. Now when Schaub throws the ball you don't know where the hell it's going to go.. over the receiver, behind the receiver. His receivers have to make acrobatic catches on balls that they should be getting YAC yards on.

Your problem is you're defending the old Matt Schaub with failing to acknowledge the player he is now and how far his skills have diminished. I don't really give a rats ass what Schaub did 2, 3, or 4 years ago.. this current Schaub is not going to lead this team anywhere and is REPLACEABLE, yes even to QBs who don't have the lengthy "resume".

dalemurphy
10-12-2013, 02:01 AM
That is a credible statement (since I was talking about postseason success) as Schaub has only been to the playoffs once.. I repeat one time. So try again with your ridiculous Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler to Dan Marino (who had his Dolphins competing year in and year out) analogy that doesn't fit here. Not to mention Schaub's name should never be mentioned in the same breath as Dan Marino.

You are trying to put Schaub up on this pedestal like he's accomplished so much in this league and shouldn't be in the position to be pushed and that take is flat out ridiculous. He put up good stats for a few years, couldn't stay healthy other years, and is clearly CLEARLY NOT THE SAME QB that he was just a couple of seasons ago. Anybody who can plug in a tape from '09 can see that.

He's been starting here for 7 seasons... one playoff win vs. the Bengals and now when he throws a football it looks like it's boomerang, because lately it's been coming right back towards him..Yeah it's ridiculous to think that Schaub should be pushed for his job and possibly put on the bench. :rolleyes: Schaub hasn't accomplished nearly enough of what you Apparently think he has, where he can keep making these mistakes and not be held accountable.

P.S.

I'm so glad you brought up Trent Dilfer, because that's now where I put this current Matt Schaub.. in the Trent Dilfer and Rob Johnson class, except he's making mistakes. He's now in the "game manager" class of QBs, but he keeps making costly mistakes.

I used to stick up with Schaub and even didn't mind the weak arm, because he was at least accurate with the football and had decent ball placement, that's no longer the case. You can't have a weak arm and also be inaccurate. Now when Schaub throws the ball you don't know where the hell it's going to go.. over the receiver, behind the receiver. His receivers have to make acrobatic catches on balls that they should be getting YAC yards on.

Your problem is you're defending the old Matt Schaub with failing to acknowledge the player he is now and how far his skills have diminished. I don't really give a rats ass what Schaub did 2, 3, or 4 years ago.. this current Schaub is not going to lead this team anywhere and is REPLACEABLE, yes even to QBs who don't have the lengthy "resume".


Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.

thunderkyss
10-12-2013, 02:50 AM
Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.

It's not really worth arguing. It is what it is. It is up to Schaub to prove Gary's trust is not misplaced.

Rey
10-12-2013, 04:43 AM
Schaub's not a good qb at this point. If you've want him to be the qb of this team from now till whenever, just understand we're playing with the odds stacked against is.

He's a qb that got fat off a good system, with very little playmaking ability and really nothing in regards to his game to write home about.

Whether you think it's keenum, Yates or a rookie....we need to be actively searching for a replacement. And that's pretty much where I salt and at this point. We need to be actively exploring an exit plan. He's a burden.

Lucky
10-12-2013, 06:55 AM
1. That is exactly what NY Giant fans are saying about Eli Manning right now.

2. I agree. The issue, again, is that the coaching staff still believe it is more likely that Schaub can return to that form than they believe Yates or Keenum can perform at that level this year. That's all. No need to read more into it than that.

First, what's with the tired Eli Manning comparisons I see everywhere? Eli doesn't play for the Texans. And whatever the Giants do or don't do concerning their struggles, doesn't mean the Texans are obligated to follow.

Second, maybe Kubiak does think Schaub can return to form. Or maybe he's paralyzed by the fear of change. Or maybe he just thinks his alternatives suck. That's not what this thread is about. It's about accountability. And if Schaub is being judged on what he accomplished in the past and not by his present performance, then he is not being held accountable. Kubiak's "I can promise you there is accountability" rings hollow.

infantrycak
10-12-2013, 09:59 AM
First, what's with the tired Eli Manning comparisons I see everywhere? Eli doesn't play for the Texans. And whatever the Giants do or don't do concerning their struggles, doesn't mean the Texans are obligated to follow.

That may be my fault. I was not comparing the two on play merit or careers. I was only examining the assertion that if someone was playing like this in NY the media would be ripping them apart and it would force the team to be more accountable. Given what Eli and the Giants are going through it seemed like an apt test of that assertion.

And if Schaub is being judged on what he accomplished in the past and not by his present performance, then he is not being held accountable.

Fair enough but the same should then be said of Eli as well.

Carr Bombed
10-12-2013, 11:35 AM
Fair enough but the same should then be said of Eli as well.

I'm pretty sure Eli is plastered over every back page in NY (Their media doesn't coddle their players like ours does) .. But it doesn't change the fact that he'll be starting next season and will keep his job.

And I don't think the same thing should be said about Eli, the situations aren't even comparable. Matt Schaub has offensive weapons hanging out the ying yang around him.. Eli doesn't, Matt Schaub has a two starting caliber RBs toting the rock for him, Eli doesn't even have a starting caliber RB, Matt Schaub has a respectable defense that can keep the team in games... Eli is playing with possibly the worst defense in the NFL.

If Eli carries this play into next season then I'll agree with you, but this season he's far from the main reason why that team is losing and two SB victories will by you time to right the ship.. time that Schaub doesn't or shouldn't have.

dalemurphy
10-12-2013, 12:06 PM
I'm pretty sure Eli is plastered over every back page in NY (Their media doesn't coddle their players like ours does) .. But it doesn't change the fact that he'll be starting next season and will keep his job.

And I don't think the same thing should be said about Eli, the situations aren't even comparable. Matt Schaub has offensive weapons hanging out the ying yang around him.. Eli doesn't, Matt Schaub has a two starting caliber RBs toting the rock for him, Eli doesn't even have a starting caliber RB, Matt Schaub has a respectable defense that can keep the team in games... Eli is playing with possibly the worst defense in the NFL.

If Eli carries this play in to next season then I'll agree with you, but this season he's far from the main reason why that team is losing and two SB victories will by you time to right the ship.. time that Schaub doesn't or shouldn't have.

Schaub has led his team to two come from behind wins this year- throwing the ball in difficult situations... Eli has yet to win a game. Eli does have some weapons: Nicks, Cruz, Randle, D.Wilson. According to PFF, the Texans' pass protection is the worst rated in the NFL: #32.

Carr Bombed
10-12-2013, 12:09 PM
Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.

I'm not discounting what he did to help us get to the playoffs in '11, but the fact remains he only has one playoff appearance on this magical "resume" and the defense is what led that team in '11. Fact remains, you can't play in the playoffs when you're on crutches.

Also there's been plenty of QBs who were able to lift crappy defenses to a playoff appearance, That's just another excuse. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees routinely played on teams with defensive woes over the years, yet they still find a way to get to the playoffs. Andrew Luck joined a team that only won 2 games the previous year and led them to the playoffs as a rookie. So, yes it's a 53 man roster (like nobody here didn't know that), but a top QB can hide a lot of warts and a QB is NOT just another guy on a 53 man roster.

A top QB can elevate the entire team and Schaub simply can't do that, because he isn't able to hide the warts. He can't make plays off schedule to make up for mistakes and everything has to go exactly perfect around him in order for him to have success. The line has to make all their blocks, defense has to play up to par, receivers have to make great catches on what is now poorly thrown passes, and we now need a consistent running game.



That's all you have to hang your hat on, stats.. Nobody cares about stats when you're losing and while Schaub was putting up his stats during those seasons, most the time we still sucked in the redzone or had a costly turnover.. (Cardinals game comes to mind) and at the end of the day still always came up short. But, those seasons no longer even come into play, because yet again all you're doing is defending the old Schaub and that guy no longer plays here. That guy rode off on his electric scooter 2 seasons ago. You need to actually start evaluating the guy who's now playing under center and the guy who is now playing under center isn't very good and is replaceable.

cstyle42
10-12-2013, 03:21 PM
Good ol boy systems I tell you. Another thing that doesn't surprise me is Mercilus 4.5 sacks is being overlooked as he has more than Watt's 3.5.

TexansSeminole
10-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Good ol boy systems I tell you. Another thing that doesn't surprise me is Mercilus 4.5 sacks is being overlooked as he has more than Watt's 3.5.

You mean overlooked by fans, or the coaches??

dalemurphy
10-12-2013, 05:38 PM
I'm not discounting what he did to help us get to the playoffs in '11, but the fact remains he only has one playoff appearance on this magical "resume" and the defense is what led that team in '11. Fact remains, you can't play in the playoffs when you're on crutches.

Also there's been plenty of QBs who were able to lift crappy defenses to a playoff appearance, That's just another excuse. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees routinely played on teams with defensive woes over the years, yet they still find a way to get to the playoffs. Andrew Luck joined a team that only won 2 games the previous year and led them to the playoffs as a rookie. So, yes it's a 53 man roster (like nobody here didn't know that), but a top QB can hide a lot of warts and a QB is NOT just another guy on a 53 man roster.

A top QB can elevate the entire team and Schaub simply can't do that, because he isn't able to hide the warts. He can't make plays off schedule to make up for mistakes and everything has to go exactly perfect around him in order for him to have success. The line has to make all their blocks, defense has to play up to par, receivers have to make great catches on what is now poorly thrown passes, and we now need a consistent running game.



That's all you have to hang your hat on, stats.. Nobody cares about stats when you're losing and while Schaub was putting up his stats during those seasons, most the time we still sucked in the redzone or had a costly turnover.. (Cardinals game comes to mind) and at the end of the day still always came up short. But, those seasons no longer even come into play, because yet again all you're doing is defending the old Schaub and that guy no longer plays here. That guy rode off on his electric scooter 2 seasons ago. You need to actually start evaluating the guy who's now playing under center and the guy who is now playing under center isn't very good and is replaceable.


I never argued Schaub was ever at Peyton, Brees, or Brady level. However, don't kid yourself... Schaub helped this team win a lot of games in 08 and 09 that they would've lost with a mediocre QB...

Still, the only reason I'm bringing up Schaub's history is because you have argued that he has not earned the resume to start over Yates... That is your argument, not mine.

I am very concerned about Schaub's play. It was awful in December and January last season... I thought he looked very good (despite some mistakes) the first couple games... I was extremely encouraged. However, the last six quarters of football have me worried about his arm strength, not to mention his mental and emotional health and the team's confidence in him. I can see this season falling apart if he does not get it together or if Kubiak stays with him too long.

All I am defending (in this thread entitled "Accountability") is the belief that Kubiak's decision to play Schaub this week is based on his desire and intention for this year's team to be successful. That's it. I'm not saying he is right. I'm saying his motives are, of course, in the right place... I think his decision is a reasonable conclusion given his current options, and I certainly hope it works out.

Rey
10-12-2013, 07:22 PM
Schaub IS mediocre. He's not some borderline stud.

He's chad Pennington in a really good system.

Lucky
10-12-2013, 09:43 PM
Schaub IS mediocre. He's not some borderline stud.

He's chad Pennington in a really good system.
Mediocre is ordinary, average. Schaub is no longer average. I would take mediocre Matt Schaub right now.

steelbtexan
10-12-2013, 11:50 PM
Mediocre is ordinary, average. Schaub is no longer average. I would take mediocre Matt Schaub right now.

Me too

I dont care about what Eli or any other QB's have/are doing.

I do care that I'm going to be at Reliant tomorrow and Schaub hopefully will not be a pick 6 machine. Watching Schaub crap the bed this yr is disgusting.

YeaLikeRightNow
10-13-2013, 06:25 AM
I honestly think it's a money thing. Imagine paying your lawn guy a years' salary up front. You're gonna ****** and moan about the blades of grass he missed with the mower, but you're not gonna complain because he shows up on schedule to cut your grass every week. At this point, you just wanna get your moneys-worth outta the guy until something better comes along.

It's simply a bean-counters mentality.

2012Champs
10-13-2013, 09:25 AM
I honestly think it's a money thing. Imagine paying your lawn guy a years' salary up front. You're gonna ****** and moan about the blades of grass he missed with the mower, but you're not gonna complain because he shows up on schedule to cut your grass every week. At this point, you just wanna get your moneys-worth outta the guy until something better comes along.

It's simply a bean-counters mentality.



Well if I didn't pay my lawn guy out of my pocket and if my choice to keep him on could cost me my job it wouldn't be nearly as hard to make a move

DocBar
10-13-2013, 09:42 AM
I honestly think it's a money thing. Imagine paying your lawn guy a years' salary up front. You're gonna ****** and moan about the blades of grass he missed with the mower, but you're not gonna complain because he shows up on schedule to cut your grass every week. At this point, you just wanna get your moneys-worth outta the guy until something better comes along.

It's simply a bean-counters mentality.If my lawn guy is continually missing blades of grass that are so noticeable that I can spot them from my porch and all of my neighbors are mentioning it, I'm getting a new lawn guy. Especially when the lawn guy has been missing those blades of grass for the better part of a season, going back to last season. Obvious the guy can't cut grass very well.

YeaLikeRightNow
10-13-2013, 10:00 AM
If my lawn guy is continually missing blades of grass that are so noticeable that I can spot them from my porch and all of my neighbors are mentioning it, I'm getting a new lawn guy. Especially when the lawn guy has been missing those blades of grass for the better part of a season, going back to last season. Obvious the guy can't cut grass very well.

Could not have said it better myself! :goodpost:

TejasTom
10-13-2013, 11:31 AM
If my lawn guy is continually missing blades of grass that are so noticeable that I can spot them from my porch and all of my neighbors are mentioning it, I'm getting a new lawn guy. Especially when the lawn guy has been missing those blades of grass for the better part of a season, going back to last season. Obvious the guy can't cut grass very well.

I got a new yard guy because I payed my old yard guy to mow my lawn but he kept mowing my neighbor's lawn.

Runner
10-13-2013, 12:06 PM
If my lawn guy is continually missing blades of grass that are so noticeable that I can spot them from my porch and all of my neighbors are mentioning it, I'm getting a new lawn guy. Especially when the lawn guy has been missing those blades of grass for the better part of a season, going back to last season. Obvious the guy can't cut grass very well.

If you and your neighbors aren't "lawn guys" yourselves, you are all unqualified to have an opinion/criticize the lawn guy professionals. They know what they are doing. Have faith.

:rolleyes:

Runner
10-13-2013, 03:45 PM
38-13 Rams. Too bad the reality distortion field that "proves" the Texans are great and know what they are doing doesn't reach onto the field of play.

thunderkyss
10-13-2013, 06:37 PM
I know this is going to be a very unpopular opinion. I know I'm going to be accused of trolling. But I'm dead serious. This looks like an inside job. This looks like something that has happened before. More than once.

It does not make sense that we can get the opposing team on their 1 yard line, but still give up a TD. It does not make sense the worst offenses in the league can drive 90+ yards on us. It doesn't make sense to give up 70+ yard drives for TDs again & again & again. It doesn't make sense that turnovers made by the QB result in TDs even on the opposing teams side of the field, but a RB can fumble on our 8 yard line & we hold them to a FG.

I'm convinced after watching the Rams score 17 points on our defense in the first half.

This is an inside job. We need to fire Wade.

eriadoc
10-13-2013, 11:28 PM
I know this is going to be a very unpopular opinion. I know I'm going to be accused of trolling. But I'm dead serious. This looks like an inside job. This looks like something that has happened before. More than once.

It does not make sense that we can get the opposing team on their 1 yard line, but still give up a TD. It does not make sense the worst offenses in the league can drive 90+ yards on us. It doesn't make sense to give up 70+ yard drives for TDs again & again & again. It doesn't make sense that turnovers made by the QB result in TDs even on the opposing teams side of the field, but a RB can fumble on our 8 yard line & we hold them to a FG.

I'm convinced after watching the Rams score 17 points on our defense in the first half.

This is an inside job. We need to fire Wade.

I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one. The Texans just suck. People don't want to admit it because they see all the yardage and big names, but as a TEAM, they suck.

Rey
10-13-2013, 11:32 PM
I know this is going to be a very unpopular opinion. I know I'm going to be accused of trolling. But I'm dead serious. This looks like an inside job. This looks like something that has happened before. More than once.

It does not make sense that we can get the opposing team on their 1 yard line, but still give up a TD. It does not make sense the worst offenses in the league can drive 90+ yards on us. It doesn't make sense to give up 70+ yard drives for TDs again & again & again. It doesn't make sense that turnovers made by the QB result in TDs even on the opposing teams side of the field, but a RB can fumble on our 8 yard line & we hold them to a FG.

I'm convinced after watching the Rams score 17 points on our defense in the first half.

This is an inside job. We need to fire Wade.

What about the years before wade was here?

Who was the saboteur then?

Honoring Earl 34
10-13-2013, 11:33 PM
I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one. The Texans just suck. People don't want to admit it because they see all the yardage and big names, but as a TEAM, they suck.

You are what your record is .