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TexansSeminole
10-05-2013, 05:54 AM
Tajh Boyd from Clemson had an excellent year last year and has been great thus far this year. This is his 3rd year starting at Clemson. Through four games (more like 3.5) he is completing 64% of his passes with 8.7 YPA. He has 994 passing yards, 159 rushing yards, 9 TD passes and 4 rushing TDs with 0 interceptions.

Link (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tajh-boyd-1.html) to his college stats thus far.

Opinions seemed to be mixed on him on this boards, but I think most people like him. Personally, I think he fits the Texans well. He can extend plays with his feet, he shows up in big games, he's tough, and he is a winner. He is inaccurate at times, but nothing that can't be corrected.

What are your thoughts on his projection to the NFL, specifically the Texans?

beerlover
10-05-2013, 09:36 AM
One thing for sure, Boyd would get the ball to DeAndre more. He is my #1 Senior QB. Strong, durable, can extend plays, performs better under pressure which is a reflection a top level competitor. So I would feel comfortable he could handle this city's expectations of what a QB should be, plug & play as new leader of a more dynamic Texan offense, especially in the red zone.

Corrosion
10-05-2013, 01:36 PM
One thing for sure, Boyd would get the ball to DeAndre more. He is my #1 Senior QB. Strong, durable, can extend plays, performs better under pressure which is a reflection a top level competitor. So I would feel comfortable he could handle this city's expectations of what a QB should be, plug & play as new leader of a more dynamic Texan offense, especially in the red zone.

I like him a lot too .... easily the top SR QB in this class but I don't think the Texans pick will come up before his named is called unless they continue to underperform.

It would likely require a significant jump in draft position to get him as I think he goes (at this point) in the top 10 selections.

beerlover
10-06-2013, 10:00 PM
I like him a lot too .... easily the top SR QB in this class but I don't think the Texans pick will come up before his named is called unless they continue to underperform.

It would likely require a significant jump in draft position to get him as I think he goes (at this point) in the top 10 selections.

Given another national embarrassment, seems there's only one thing to look forward to, the draft. Here is a good article from yesterday game -
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24024356/boyd-improves-heisman-nfl-stock-vs-syracuse

aussie_texan
10-06-2013, 10:05 PM
at least schuab has done one thing right. he sucked in a year when there is a lot of good talent at QB.

thanks matt

badboy
10-06-2013, 11:16 PM
Thanks BL I enjoyed the read.

Wolf6151
10-07-2013, 01:23 AM
at least schuab has done one thing right. he sucked in a year when there is a lot of good talent at QB.

thanks matt

That's the way to look on the bright side,:bravo: and our draft position is getting better and better each week as well.

Playoffs
10-26-2013, 12:44 PM
Walter Football seems to think Boyd is 5'11, fwiw.

Texian
10-26-2013, 01:02 PM
Walter Football seems to think Boyd is 5'11, fwiw.

NFL Draft Scout has him at a measured height of 6005. (same as Brees)

Playoffs
10-26-2013, 02:22 PM
NFL Draft Scout has him at a measured height of 6005. (same as Brees)

Actual height will be measured pre-draft. Doesn't amount to much, but some put a lot of stock in QB height/size.

leebigeztx
10-26-2013, 02:31 PM
I like Boyd. He does have some fotwork issues that throw his accuracy off at times. He reminds me a lot of mcnabb and cutler. Compact,powerful guys with good feet. At times their mechanics will cause them to throw groundballs,but then they will make a lot of throws only a select few can make. He can go anywhere from 3 to 15.

badboy
10-26-2013, 07:24 PM
he really needed this game to improve his accuracy percentage.

Texian
10-26-2013, 08:16 PM
he really needed this game to improve his accuracy percentage.

Actually his percentage dropped below 70% after the Florida State game.

badboy
10-26-2013, 09:41 PM
Actually his percentage dropped below 70% after the Florida State game.You are incorrect as he was only above 70% for two games (Wake Forrest 70.8 & Syracuse 74.1) & then dropped against Boston College to 68.2 and followed that with the terrible 45.9 at Florida St. My comment stands.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/480221/

thunderkyss
10-26-2013, 11:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF1v91Kb71s&noredirect=1

I believe that's all of Boyd's throws against Georgia 2013. I wasn't impressed. Everything out of the pistol, appears to be a one read, check down, run guy. Accuracy... not feeling it.

His arm doesn't look good enough to me. He floats anything over 10 yards (may be a little hyperbole here), but he does have good zip on the shorter throws. If I had to guess, he would struggle if he had to start his first year.

I like his size, he's thick, he's athletic.... may not be very tall, can't tell.

Now after that video ended, there was this highlight video of Marcus Mariota
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdQcqop2R-w&noredirect=1

Still can't tell how tall he is, & he looks lanky.... Joe Flacco-ish, Matt Ryany...... But I like his arm. That's a big time arm. More athletic than Boyd & appears to be going through progressions. Even buying time looking for something downfield, before he decides to make a run for it.

I'm not a scout. I don't watch a lot of these kids. & I know it isn't fair to judge Boyd on one video (but it wasn't a highlight video, it was an every snap of this game video) But if I were to choose I'd go with Mariota.

Ok...... here's a highlight video of Boyd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdldOjwn6i0&noredirect=1

His arm looks much better, his accuracy looks much better (but it is a highlight video). Still not impressed with him going through progressions. Looks like he's got his mind made up & he's waiting for his guy to open up.

mussop
10-27-2013, 01:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF1v91Kb71s&noredirect=1

I believe that's all of Boyd's throws against Georgia 2013. I wasn't impressed. Everything out of the pistol, appears to be a one read, check down, run guy. Accuracy... not feeling it.

His arm doesn't look good enough to me. He floats anything over 10 yards (may be a little hyperbole here), but he does have good zip on the shorter throws. If I had to guess, he would struggle if he had to start his first year.

I like his size, he's thick, he's athletic.... may not be very tall, can't tell.

Now after that video ended, there was this highlight video of Marcus Mariota
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdQcqop2R-w&noredirect=1

Still can't tell how tall he is, & he looks lanky.... Joe Flacco-ish, Matt Ryany...... But I like his arm. That's a big time arm. More athletic than Boyd & appears to be going through progressions. Even buying time looking for something downfield, before he decides to make a run for it.

I'm not a scout. I don't watch a lot of these kids. & I know it isn't fair to judge Boyd on one video (but it wasn't a highlight video, it was an every snap of this game video) But if I were to choose I'd go with Mariota.

Ok...... here's a highlight video of Boyd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdldOjwn6i0&noredirect=1

His arm looks much better, his accuracy looks much better (but it is a highlight video). Still not impressed with him going through progressions. Looks like he's got his mind made up & he's waiting for his guy to open up.

I agree with this post.

Playoffs
10-27-2013, 01:38 PM
I liked his skill set, but his (lack of) performance against Florida State really put me off Boyd. I'm not interested in a QB who totally loses his composure like that... don't want a guy who folds.

nero THE zero
10-29-2013, 03:52 PM
I liked his skill set, but his (lack of) performance against Florida State really put me off Boyd. I'm not interested in a QB who totally loses his composure like that... don't want a guy who folds.

What's interesting is that his reputation, prior to that game, was that he was a guy who stepped up in big games.

I'm not sure that the FSU game wasn't an aberration. I still don't know that I would want to draft him, though.

I, personally, would sell the farm for Mariota.

Texian
10-29-2013, 04:12 PM
I liked his skill set, but his (lack of) performance against Florida State really put me off Boyd. I'm not interested in a QB who totally loses his composure like that... don't want a guy who folds.

What's interesting is that his reputation, prior to that game, was that he was a guy who stepped up in big games.

I'm not sure that the FSU game wasn't an aberration. I still don't know that I would want to draft him, though.

I, personally, would sell the farm for Mariota.

Boyd's problem in the FSU game is his OL was giving him less than 3 secs to get rid of the ball. I don't think there is a college QB today who would have performed any better. I don't think there is another college QB playing today with as many GW drives as Boyd.

Corrosion
10-31-2013, 01:50 PM
Now after that video ended, there was this highlight video of Marcus Mariota


Still can't tell how tall he is, & he looks lanky.... Joe Flacco-ish, Matt Ryany...... But I like his arm. That's a big time arm. More athletic than Boyd & appears to be going through progressions. Even buying time looking for something downfield, before he decides to make a run for it.



His arm looks much better, his accuracy looks much better (but it is a highlight video). Still not impressed with him going through progressions. Looks like he's got his mind made up & he's waiting for his guy to open up.

Mariota's completion percentage is under 60% which is ~10% lower than the other QB's expected to go in the top 2-3 rounds. That includes Bridgewater , Manziel , Carr , Hundley , McCarron and Murray.

What's interesting is that his reputation, prior to that game, was that he was a guy who stepped up in big games.

I'm not sure that the FSU game wasn't an aberration. I still don't know that I would want to draft him, though.

I, personally, would sell the farm for Mariota.

I thought the same thing about that FSU game .... Boyd has come up big several times in pressure situations over the past couple seasons.
I really liked him and had him as the top rated Sr QB but the past few weeks have me questioning his position again.

Not sold on Mariota ....

leebigeztx
10-31-2013, 05:21 PM
Mariota's completion percentage is under 60% which is ~10% lower than the other QB's expected to go in the top 2-3 rounds. That includes Bridgewater , Manziel , Carr , Hundley , McCarron and Murray.



I thought the same thing about that FSU game .... Boyd has come up big several times in pressure situations over the past couple seasons.
I really liked him and had him as the top rated Sr QB but the past few weeks have me questioning his position again.

Not sold on Mariota ....

Alot of those qbs coming out of those spread,veer systems have trouble with mechanics. When I see boyd, I see the same footwork flaws that mcnabb had. The question is, can he be coached up and become mechanically sound? If he can, I like alot of other things about boyd with some of his throws , but some of those mcnabb-ish ground balls raise a flag. Like mentioned before, not sold on mariotta and hundley looks like he needs another year of season.

thunderkyss
10-31-2013, 07:03 PM
Mariota's completion percentage is under 60% which is ~10% lower than the other QB's expected to go in the top 2-3 rounds. That includes Bridgewater , Manziel , Carr , Hundley , McCarron and Murray.

Not sold on Mariota ....

Even better if we can get Mariota in the 4th.

Texian
10-31-2013, 07:59 PM
Mariota's completion percentage is under 60% which is ~10% lower than the other QB's expected to go in the top 2-3 rounds. That includes Bridgewater , Manziel , Carr , Hundley , McCarron and Murray.



I thought the same thing about that FSU game .... Boyd has come up big several times in pressure situations over the past couple seasons.
I really liked him and had him as the top rated Sr QB but the past few weeks have me questioning his position again.

Not sold on Mariota ....

Even better if we can get Mariota in the 4th.

Mariota's completion percentage is 64% (#33, 10/31/13)

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/755

steelbtexan
10-31-2013, 10:08 PM
I've said Boyd is overrated for awhile now. Every yr Clemson comes into the season highly rated and Clemson/Boyd lay a couple of eggs. His arm is avg, he doesn't read defenses well. As I've said before if you like Boyd, you should love Manziel. I dont like either one of them in the NFL.

Although I really love watching Johnny Football in college.

Steel B's QB ratings 1. Bridgewater 2. McCarron 3. Murray

Corrosion
10-31-2013, 10:08 PM
Even better if we can get Mariota in the 4th.

He likely doesn't last to the 4th overall much less the 4th round .... But I guess if you are gonna dream , dream big!

Mariota's completion percentage is 64% (#33, 10/31/13)

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/755

He has raised that number over the past couple weeks then .... He was at 56% two weeks ago while several of the others were over 70%.

Alot of those qbs coming out of those spread,veer systems have trouble with mechanics. When I see boyd, I see the same footwork flaws that mcnabb had. The question is, can he be coached up and become mechanically sound? If he can, I like alot of other things about boyd with some of his throws , but some of those mcnabb-ish ground balls raise a flag. Like mentioned before, not sold on mariotta and hundley looks like he needs another year of season.

McNabb might be a fair comparison mechanically .... agree on Hundley , he needs another year.

eriadoc
11-01-2013, 03:32 PM
Steel B's QB ratings 1. Bridgewater 2. McCarron 3. Murray

I like Murray better than Bridgewater and McCarron third among those. He's had some of his best games against the best competition, and he is capable of slinging it against anyone. The NFL won't agree with me because of Murray's size, however. They are incapable of accurately evaluating talent under 6'2". I'm not overly excited about any of the prospects this year, to be honest. People keep saying it's a great QB draft, but I just don't see it.

badboy
11-01-2013, 09:34 PM
I like Murray better than Bridgewater and McCarron third among those. He's had some of his best games against the best competition, and he is capable of slinging it against anyone. The NFL won't agree with me because of Murray's size, however. They are incapable of accurately evaluating talent under 6'2". I'm not overly excited about any of the prospects this year, to be honest. People keep saying it's a great QB draft, but I just don't see it.I think the QB crop has not lived up to its billing. Looking only at the three QBs you identified, Bridgewater high first, Murray mid second and McCarron top 15 third which is more valuable to Texans at those picks? I like and mock McCarron in third.

mussop
11-01-2013, 10:58 PM
I think the QB crop has not lived up to its billing. Looking only at the three QBs you identified, Bridgewater high first, Murray mid second and McCarron top 15 third which is more valuable to Texans at those picks? I like and mock McCarron in third.

McCarron looks like a 5th or later to me. He's a game manager on a great team. Good intangibles but nothing special.

Murray feels like a Kubiak pick to me for some reason. Hopefully it won't be Kubiaks decision who we draft next year.

Manzel just impresses the hell out of me on the field. However as much as he impresses me on it, he scares me off it. When asked the other day to name the three people he would like to party wight the most, his answer was tiger woods, Charlie sheen and rob gornowski (sp?).

I don't know if he was just being facetious or if he was serious. Either way shows he still has a lot of growing up to do.

steelbtexan
11-01-2013, 11:13 PM
McCarron looks like a 5th or later to me. He's a game manager on a great team. Good intangibles but nothing special.

Murray feels like a Kubiak pick to me for some reason. Hopefully it won't be Kubiaks decision who we draft next year.

Manzel just impresses the hell out of me on the field. However as much as he impresses me on it, he scares me off it. When asked the other day to name the three people he would like to party wight the most, his answer was tiger woods, Charlie sheen and rob gornowski (sp?).

I don't know if he was just being facetious or if he was serious. Either way shows he still has a lot of growing up to do.

McCarron is tall, can make all of the throws, can move around the pocket well and is obviously a leader.

Manziel obviously knows who to party with. People at the top of their fields.

badboy
11-01-2013, 11:26 PM
McCarron looks like a 5th or later to me. He's a game manager on a great team. Good intangibles but nothing special.

Murray feels like a Kubiak pick to me for some reason. Hopefully it won't be Kubiaks decision who we draft next year.

Manzel just impresses the hell out of me on the field. However as much as he impresses me on it, he scares me off it. When asked the other day to name the three people he would like to party wight the most, his answer was tiger woods, Charlie sheen and rob gornowski (sp?).

I don't know if he was just being facetious or if he was serious. Either way shows he still has a lot of growing up to do.When you or anyone says things like bolded, you lose credit with me. McCarron makes all the throws and is extremely consistently good. You should read the following:

"In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, manages to perform well enough to win games.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game.[3][4]
The New York Times called it a "backhanded compliment".[5] The San Francisco Chronicle wrote, "As consolation ... Quarterbacks are called game managers only if they're winning."[6] The Associated Press opined, "But like any cliche, [game manager is] oversimplified". Former Indianapolis Colts president Bill Polian laughed, "Every quarterback is a game manager, it's what the job is all about."[1] College coach Nick Saban added that "I don't think you can be a good quarterback unless you're a really good game manager."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager


You would defend your opinion better if you stated a negative McCarron (or any player)has then offered facts to support.

leebigeztx
11-02-2013, 01:02 AM
McCarron is tall, can make all of the throws, can move around the pocket well and is obviously a leader.

Manziel obviously knows who to party with. People at the top of their fields.

You said boyd arm is avg,but mccarron can make all the throws? I disagree on both accounts especially with boyd arm being avg. He has a powerful and compact delivery. He doesn't need a lot of footspace nor time to throw the ball outside the numbers. His biggest problem is mechanics.

When I watch mccarron,he always have a clean pocket. Look at the lineman in front of him and tell me when he's had to play under pressure in his face? How many nfl throws have u seen him make?Everytime I look up, his wrs are running butt naked.

Corrosion
11-02-2013, 08:15 AM
When I watch mccarron,he always have a clean pocket. Look at the lineman in front of him and tell me when he's had to play under pressure in his face? How many nfl throws have u seen him make?Everytime I look up, his wrs are running butt naked.

I wont get into the Boyd Vs McCarron debate ....


But I will state that I believe a large part of McCarron's success is because of the talent around him. He , to me , is a product of the system & talent around him.

He's got the best OL group in college football (arguably) along with lots of talent at RB , WR & TE.
The talent on his team , position by position is generally better than the talent of their opponents. He wont be afforded that luxury in the NFL where the great teams and the weakest teams are separated by very little in overall talent.

Its really difficult for me to gauge his stock because of that talent disparity. He has the #1 defense in the NCAA , other than A&M who put any pressure on them ?!

Good size , good arm , ~69% completion percentage but isn't asked to do much, isn't going to hurt defenses outside the pocket , never really tested.


What's his upside ?!

mussop
11-02-2013, 10:31 AM
When you or anyone says things like bolded, you lose credit with me. McCarron makes all the throws and is extremely consistently good. You should read the following:

"In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, manages to perform well enough to win games.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game.[3][4]
The New York Times called it a "backhanded compliment".[5] The San Francisco Chronicle wrote, "As consolation ... Quarterbacks are called game managers only if they're winning."[6] The Associated Press opined, "But like any cliche, [game manager is] oversimplified". Former Indianapolis Colts president Bill Polian laughed, "Every quarterback is a game manager, it's what the job is all about."[1] College coach Nick Saban added that "I don't think you can be a good quarterback unless you're a really good game manager."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager


You would defend your opinion better if you stated a negative McCarron (or any player)has then offered facts to support.

Seriously? I've been on this board for years. Followed the draft since before if was popular. I remember scouring every magazine and newspaper I could get my hands on when I was in middle school just to read about draft eligible players. Yes that was before the internet. I don't need you to give me the definition of game manager. Hell I'm a texans fan. If anyone knows what a game manager is its a texans fan.

I have watched McCarren many times. The only thing special about him is his girlfriend. He's slightly better than McElroy arm strength wise. Other than that they are pretty much the same player. I could be wrong but I see his ceiling as a career backup in the NFL.

Corrosion
11-02-2013, 11:08 AM
I could be wrong but I see his ceiling as a career backup in the NFL.

Im stuck between career backup & an Alex Smith type who just doesn't make any mistakes but isn't going to carry your team. Now if you have a team with a great running game & defense .... Alex Smith is just fine , just look at what he's done the past three seasons , something like 32-6.

htownfan32
11-02-2013, 11:24 AM
While Manziel might be stupid off the field, I don't think he's a Terrell Owens type. On the field he's all about football.

Honestly I don't he parties any more than any other college star player. He just gets far more coverage than all the others. The NFL will bring some maturity in him, especially if he comes into a locker room with serious veterans. If he goes to an organization with rowdy players, he'll stay the same.

beerlover
11-02-2013, 11:31 AM
McCarron so far 2013 - 69.4% completion average (consider afforded plus time/protection) 8.9 avg. per catch (suggests game management dink & dunk) 16 TD's vs 3 Int's (lower completion yardage increase ball security) 166.61 passer rating & 232.8 yards per.game

McCarron 2012 - 67.2 completion average, 9.3 avg. per catch 30 TD's vs 3 Int's. passer rating 175.28 & 209.5 yards per game (more effective running the ball).

McCarron 2011 - 66.8 completion average 8.0 avg. per catch 16 TD's vs 5 Int's 147.27 passer rating & 202.6 yards per game.

Game manager. Low ceiling. Consistently progressing but trending only slightly above average.

Boyd same number games for 2013 - 63.9 completion average, 8.5 yards per catch, 17 TD's vs 5 INT's 153.05 passer rating & 280.4 yards per game. Heavy on passing attack, unbalanced, more risk with inferior OL & running game.

Boyd 2012 with Hopkins - 67.2 completion average 9.1 yards per catch 36 TD's vs 13 Int's, 165.58 passer rating & 299.7 yards per game. Still heavy on passing attack but better balanced. Risk taker, strong arm.

Boyd 2011 - 59.7 completion average 7.7 yards per catch 33 TD's vs 12 Int's 141.17 passer rating & 273.4 yards per game.

Pass happy QB who developed more over his tenure than MaCarron but who still lacks game management & ball security skills. Natural leadership & athletic ability, still developing.

Even though Johnny Manziel has played only two years (redshirt sophomore) I would like to throw him into the mix just for comparison.

Manziel 2013 - 73.0 completion average 10.3 yards per catch 22 TD's vs 8 Int's 181.95 passer rating & 324.3 yards per game.

Manziel 2012 - 68.0 completion average 8.5 yards per catch 26 TD's 9 Int's 155.32 passer rating & 285.1 yards per game.

Most dynamic of three. Huge jump in averages across the board, still reckless @ times with ball, but clearly ascending higher. Likes to stretch the field (defenses). If he declares early? he will probably be rated only behind Bridgewater @ QB position. I seriously doubt Mariota will come out who is an entirely different cat all together.

Corrosion
11-02-2013, 11:36 AM
While Manziel might be stupid off the field, I don't think he's a Terrell Owens type. On the field he's all about football.

Honestly I don't he parties any more than any other college star player. He just gets far more coverage than all the others. The NFL will bring some maturity in him, especially if he comes into a locker room with serious veterans. If he goes to an organization with rowdy players, he'll stay the same.


He's made a lot of improvement on the field this year too ... Arm strength & accuracy have both significantly improved. Not really so concerned with his reading defenses as he buys himself so much time with his mobility. Not many QB's I've seen can scramble like that while keeping their eyes down field.

If Keenum proves NOT to be the guy going forward and both Bridgewater & Mariota (I'm no Mariota fan) are both gone , I'd have to consider Manziel with that first round pick.

He definitely shouldn't be fed a diet of designed runs in the pro's but he could definitely extend some plays causing a lot of problems for defenses ....

badboy
11-02-2013, 10:22 PM
Seriously? I've been on this board for years. Followed the draft since before if was popular. I remember scouring every magazine and newspaper I could get my hands on when I was in middle school just to read about draft eligible players. Yes that was before the internet. I don't need you to give me the definition of game manager. Hell I'm a texans fan. If anyone knows what a game manager is its a texans fan.

I have watched McCarren many times. The only thing special about him is his girlfriend. He's slightly better than McElroy arm strength wise. Other than that they are pretty much the same player. I could be wrong but I see his ceiling as a career backup in the NFL.The definition I posted definitely eliminates McCarron as a system QB so evidently you did not know it. I am not interested in your time on a MB (or mine either) as that implies nothing. Understand I am not attacking you but asking you to present something to support what you are saying. If you think AJ is poor passer or not mobile for example, say so.

badboy
11-02-2013, 10:29 PM
I wont get into the Boyd Vs McCarron debate ....


But I will state that I believe a large part of McCarron's success is because of the talent around him. He , to me , is a product of the system & talent around him.

He's got the best OL group in college football (arguably) along with lots of talent at RB , WR & TE.
The talent on his team , position by position is generally better than the talent of their opponents. He wont be afforded that luxury in the NFL where the great teams and the weakest teams are separated by very little in overall talent.

Its really difficult for me to gauge his stock because of that talent disparity. He has the #1 defense in the NCAA , other than A&M who put any pressure on them ?!

Good size , good arm , ~69% completion percentage but isn't asked to do much, isn't going to hurt defenses outside the pocket , never really tested.


What's his upside ?!How would he do on Texans? HOF WR, 1st round Hopkins, Pro Bowler D. Brown, Foster and decent TEs. Seems like a very good fit.

Texian
11-02-2013, 10:37 PM
McCarron so far 2013 - 69.4% completion average (consider afforded plus time/protection) 8.9 avg. per catch (suggests game management dink & dunk) 16 TD's vs 3 Int's (lower completion yardage increase ball security) 166.61 passer rating & 232.8 yards per.game

McCarron 2012 - 67.2 completion average, 9.3 avg. per catch 30 TD's vs 3 Int's. passer rating 175.28 & 209.5 yards per game (more effective running the ball).

McCarron 2011 - 66.8 completion average 8.0 avg. per catch 16 TD's vs 5 Int's 147.27 passer rating & 202.6 yards per game.

Game manager. Low ceiling. Consistently progressing but trending only slightly above average.

Boyd same number games for 2013 - 63.9 completion average, 8.5 yards per catch, 17 TD's vs 5 INT's 153.05 passer rating & 280.4 yards per game. Heavy on passing attack, unbalanced, more risk with inferior OL & running game.

Boyd 2012 with Hopkins - 67.2 completion average 9.1 yards per catch 36 TD's vs 13 Int's, 165.58 passer rating & 299.7 yards per game. Still heavy on passing attack but better balanced. Risk taker, strong arm.

Boyd 2011 - 59.7 completion average 7.7 yards per catch 33 TD's vs 12 Int's 141.17 passer rating & 273.4 yards per game.

Pass happy QB who developed more over his tenure than MaCarron but who still lacks game management & ball security skills. Natural leadership & athletic ability, still developing.

Even though Johnny Manziel has played only two years (redshirt sophomore) I would like to throw him into the mix just for comparison.

Manziel 2013 - 73.0 completion average 10.3 yards per catch 22 TD's vs 8 Int's 181.95 passer rating & 324.3 yards per game.

Manziel 2012 - 68.0 completion average 8.5 yards per catch 26 TD's 9 Int's 155.32 passer rating & 285.1 yards per game.

Most dynamic of three. Huge jump in averages across the board, still reckless @ times with ball, but clearly ascending higher. Likes to stretch the field (defenses). If he declares early? he will probably be rated only behind Bridgewater @ QB position. I seriously doubt Mariota will come out who is an entirely different cat all together.

Well Done! Manziel runs better and nobody sees the football field as well as Manziel

badboy
11-02-2013, 10:55 PM
McCarron so far 2013 - 69.4% completion average (consider afforded plus time/protection) 8.9 avg. per catch (suggests game management dink & dunk) 16 TD's vs 3 Int's (lower completion yardage increase ball security) 166.61 passer rating & 232.8 yards per.game

McCarron 2012 - 67.2 completion average, 9.3 avg. per catch 30 TD's vs 3 Int's. passer rating 175.28 & 209.5 yards per game (more effective running the ball).

McCarron 2011 - 66.8 completion average 8.0 avg. per catch 16 TD's vs 5 Int's 147.27 passer rating & 202.6 yards per game.

Game manager. Low ceiling. Consistently progressing but trending only slightly above average.

Boyd same number games for 2013 - 63.9 completion average, 8.5 yards per catch, 17 TD's vs 5 INT's 153.05 passer rating & 280.4 yards per game. Heavy on passing attack, unbalanced, more risk with inferior OL & running game.

Boyd 2012 with Hopkins - 67.2 completion average 9.1 yards per catch 36 TD's vs 13 Int's, 165.58 passer rating & 299.7 yards per game. Still heavy on passing attack but better balanced. Risk taker, strong arm.

Boyd 2011 - 59.7 completion average 7.7 yards per catch 33 TD's vs 12 Int's 141.17 passer rating & 273.4 yards per game.

Pass happy QB who developed more over his tenure than MaCarron but who still lacks game management & ball security skills. Natural leadership & athletic ability, still developing.

Even though Johnny Manziel has played only two years (redshirt sophomore) I would like to throw him into the mix just for comparison.

Manziel 2013 - 73.0 completion average 10.3 yards per catch 22 TD's vs 8 Int's 181.95 passer rating & 324.3 yards per game.

Manziel 2012 - 68.0 completion average 8.5 yards per catch 26 TD's 9 Int's 155.32 passer rating & 285.1 yards per game.

Most dynamic of three. Huge jump in averages across the board, still reckless @ times with ball, but clearly ascending higher. Likes to stretch the field (defenses). If he declares early? he will probably be rated only behind Bridgewater @ QB position. I seriously doubt Mariota will come out who is an entirely different cat all together.You identified with parenthesis that McCarron's 8.9 YPC suggest he is a game manager, dinker and dunker yet not the same for Boyd at 8.3? Please clarify.

Clemson's rushing average per game is 174, Alabama's 210 so maybe McCarron does not have to pass as much?

PapaL
11-02-2013, 10:57 PM
McCarron reminds me...Matt Leinhert. Best of the best around him, makes a couple of plays, has a monster OL. Made Leinhert a ton of money base off of inflated college stats but zero production in the NFL. JMO.

beerlover
11-02-2013, 11:46 PM
You identified with parenthesis that McCarron's 8.9 YPC suggest he is a game manager, dinker and dunker yet not the same for Boyd at 8.3? Please clarify.

Clemson's rushing average per game is 174, Alabama's 210 so maybe McCarron does not have to pass as much?

that in itself implies the definition of a game manager :swatter:

plus Boyd's OL does not compare to Alabama.

steelbtexan
11-03-2013, 12:14 AM
McCarron reminds me...Matt Leinhert. Best of the best around him, makes a couple of plays, has a monster OL. Made Leinhert a ton of money base off of inflated college stats but zero production in the NFL. JMO.

McCarron has a much stronger arm than Leinhart ever had.

Luck had a monster OL with draft picks on his OL (DeCastro/Martin) 2 TE's (Fleener/Toililo) RB (Taylor) and really good college WR's (Owasu/Whalen) and nobody compared him to Leinhart. BTW Luck only won 1 bowl game. (So obviously he stunk. (Sarcasm////)

I like the way McCarron took his team down the field in less than 2 mins against LSU's defense in time of crisis with NC hopes on the line.

McCarron has the size/mobility/leadership qualities/ his arm is plenty strong enough to make all of the throws and I believe he has much room to improve as a pro. Because like all leaders he has a strong work ethic.

Hence McCarron #2 on Steel B's QB board.

thunderkyss
11-03-2013, 01:08 AM
Im stuck between career backup & an Alex Smith type who just doesn't make any mistakes but isn't going to carry your team. Now if you have a team with a great running game & defense .... Alex Smith is just fine , just look at what he's done the past three seasons , something like 32-6.

watching this conversation about McCarron for some reason has me thinking of Troy Aikman. Not "flashy" like Romo or Manziel, but the things he did in the pocket won the Cowboys many a game.

I think he fits badboy's description of game manager to a tee. But he wasn't a game manager.

Corrosion
11-03-2013, 01:17 AM
How would he do on Texans? HOF WR, 1st round Hopkins, Pro Bowler D. Brown, Foster and decent TEs. Seems like a very good fit.

How'd Matt Schaub fit until this season .... Well enough to make a couple wildcard came wins and divisional round exits.


watching this conversation about McCarron for some reason has me thinking of Troy Aikman. Not "flashy" like Romo or Manziel, but the things he did in the pocket won the Cowboys many a game.

I think he fits badboy's description of game manager to a tee. But he wasn't a game manager.

That's why I think his upside is Alex Smith ..... who has a team much like Aikman's Sh!tpies. Very good defense , very good running game .... tho Aikman did have better weapons at WR/TE.

Texian
11-03-2013, 10:19 AM
McCarron has a much stronger arm than Leinhart ever had.

Luck had a monster OL with draft picks on his OL (DeCastro/Martin) 2 TE's (Fleener/Toililo) RB (Taylor) and really good college WR's (Owasu/Whalen) and nobody compared him to Leinhart. BTW Luck only won 1 bowl game. (So obviously he stunk. (Sarcasm////)

I like the way McCarron took his team down the field in less than 2 mins against LSU's defense in time of crisis with NC hopes on the line.

McCarron has the size/mobility/leadership qualities/ his arm is plenty strong enough to make all of the throws and I believe he has much room to improve as a pro. Because like all leaders he has a strong work ethic.

Hence McCarron #2 on Steel B's QB board.

A good objective analysis and not done with a preconceived idea of wanting McCarron to fail. McCarron has been outstanding when the game is on the the line. This is one of my the most important and critical evaluation considerations. This was also strongly evident in SEC Championship game against Georgia last year. Not only does he step up when the game is on the line, he doesn't make many mistakes, far less than his competition.

cuppacoffee
11-03-2013, 10:52 AM
http://www.niuhuskies.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jordan_lynch_402677.html

I am not too keen on the draft status of players but it seem someone should/will kick the tires on this guy.

:coffee:

mussop
11-04-2013, 09:20 PM
The definition I posted definitely eliminates McCarron as a system QB so evidently you did not know it. I am not interested in your time on a MB (or mine either) as that implies nothing. Understand I am not attacking you but asking you to present something to support what you are saying. If you think AJ is poor passer or not mobile for example, say so.

You go with whatever definition you want. Just because you find something on the internet doesn't mean it's the standard everyone should go by. I have watched him play many times. He gives me the game manager vibe. Like another poster here said, he reminds me of an Alex smith type QB. Alex smith has some pretty dam good stats over the last two years also yet he is widely considered a game manager by almost anyone you talk to.

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 10:36 PM
After seeing two games of Keenum's arm and mobility, I don't want a new QB. I want the guy we already have at least for one more season. Keenum's arm is starting to remind me more and more of Aaron Rodgers.

mussop
11-05-2013, 11:23 AM
After seeing two games of Keenum's arm and mobility, I don't want a new QB. I want the guy we already have at least for one more season. Keenum's arm is starting to remind me more and more of Aaron Rodgers.

I love what I have seen too but it's just to dam soon to make any kind of judgment call on Keenam. He needs to show he can perform at this level consistently before I'll say let's pass on a QB in the draft. Even then if we have a chance at a franchise type QB we should really consider it.

76Texan
11-05-2013, 11:28 AM
I love what I have seen too but it's just to dam soon to make any kind of judgment call on Keenam. He needs to show he can perform at this level consistently before I'll say let's pass on a QB in the draft. Even then if we have a chance at a franchise type QB we should really consider it.

IMO, neither Geno Smith nor Boyd can be upgrade from Keenum.
They are bigger, but not better QBs.

Keenum makes the guys around him better, especially the O-line.

I know many of you thought I was crazy when I considered drafting him in the first round; the only thing I would concede at the time is his stature and injury history; to safeguard against the risk, I would put him in the third to fourth round category because his floor is a great backup QB.

I was very comfortable drafting him in the second round though.

TexansSeminole
11-05-2013, 12:07 PM
I love what I have seen too but it's just to dam soon to make any kind of judgment call on Keenam. He needs to show he can perform at this level consistently before I'll say let's pass on a QB in the draft. Even then if we have a chance at a franchise type QB we should really consider it.

I have to agree.

If Keenum plays the way he has been playing, we have something here and probably shouldn't look at a QB for the first few rounds, unless it's a sure fire franchise guy. I don't see a sure fire franchise quarterback in this draft. The closest thing is probably Bridgewater.

Having said that, we just haven't seen enough play time from Keenum to make that call yet. It's looking more and more like we may have something special though, which would be the best case scenario, obviously.

Texian
11-05-2013, 12:21 PM
IMO, neither Geno Smith nor Boyd can be upgrade from Keenum.
They are bigger, but not better QBs.

Keenum makes the guys around him better, especially the O-line.

I know many of you thought I was crazy when I considered drafting him in the first round; the only thing I would concede at the time is his stature and injury history; to safeguard against the risk, I would put him in the third to fourth round category because his floor is a great backup QB.

I was very comfortable drafting him in the second round though.

Geno Smith has more 4th quarter come from behind and game winning drives than any NFL rookie before him and he's still figuring it out. To some this comes as no surprise as did it time and time again in college.

coon
11-05-2013, 12:37 PM
You go with whatever definition you want. Just because you find something on the internet doesn't mean it's the standard everyone should go by. I have watched him play many times. He gives me the game manager vibe. Like another poster here said, he reminds me of an Alex smith type QB. Alex smith has some pretty dam good stats over the last two years also yet he is widely considered a game manager by almost anyone you talk to.

I have have seen most of his games as well. In a large amount of the big games Alabama has played the outcome is decided by the half. McCarron takes these games over right from the start. Taking what the defense gives you without turning it over is a big part of being a good nfl Qb, but I see a kid who can also throw people open and dominate games. I will respectfully disagree that his ceiling is an Alex Smith type.

76Texan
11-05-2013, 12:46 PM
Geno Smith has more 4th quarter come from behind and game winning drives than any NFL rookie before him and he's still figuring it out. To some this comes as no surprise as did it time and time again in college.

With 15 seconds left, The ball at the Jets 45, Smith ran for 10 to the Bucs 45.
The Bucs committed a stupid 15-yd penalty that have the Jets the ball at the 30.
Folk made a 48-yd FG to win the game.
If you call that a winning drive; it's your choice.

The Bills gave the game away despite two INTs by Smith.

The Falcons also gave the game away; they aren't much better off than the Texans in this regard.

The Pats played an uncharacteristic game.
The Jets missed a 56yd FG, but the Pats committed a 15-yd penalty to give the Jets a first down.
Eleven consecutive run plays on that drive, including a one-yard loss by Smith brought about a 42yd winning FG.

76Texan
11-05-2013, 12:49 PM
With 15 seconds left, The ball at the Jets 45, Smith ran for 10 to the Bucs 45.
The Bucs committed a stupid 15-yd penalty that have the Jets the ball at the 30.
Folk made a 48-yd FG to win the game.
If you call that a winning drive; it's your choice.

The Bills gave the game away despite two INTs by Smith.

The Falcons also gave the game away; they aren't much better off than the Texans in this regard.

The Pats played an uncharacteristic game.
The Jets missed a 56yd FG, but the Pats committed a 15-yd penalty to give the Jets a first down.
Eleven consecutive run plays on that drive, including a one-yard loss by Smith brought about a 42yd winning FG.

If you think 13 INTs (including 3 pick-sixes) as the definition of a franchise QB, then more power to you.

badboy
11-05-2013, 12:56 PM
that in itself implies the definition of a game manager :swatter:

plus Boyd's OL does not compare to Alabama.You avoided my question, if McCarron's YPC = game manager, then the other QB at .5 yards less should indicate same. You cannot have it both ways. In 2012 McCarron threw 42 passes greater than 20 yards.

Exascor
11-05-2013, 01:50 PM
Geno Smith has more 4th quarter come from behind and game winning drives than any NFL rookie before him and he's still figuring it out. To some this comes as no surprise as did it time and time again in college.

Then Geno Smith obviously didn't play well enough in the first 3 quarters. Same with Luck. He was a well below average QB on Sunday night...until the 4th. That is a terribly overrated stat.

Texian
11-05-2013, 02:27 PM
With 15 seconds left, The ball at the Jets 45, Smith ran for 10 to the Bucs 45.
The Bucs committed a stupid 15-yd penalty that have the Jets the ball at the 30.
Folk made a 48-yd FG to win the game.
If you call that a winning drive; it's your choice.

The Bills gave the game away despite two INTs by Smith.

The Falcons also gave the game away; they aren't much better off than the Texans in this regard.

The Pats played an uncharacteristic game.
The Jets missed a 56yd FG, but the Pats committed a 15-yd penalty to give the Jets a first down.
Eleven consecutive run plays on that drive, including a one-yard loss by Smith brought about a 42yd winning FG.

If you think 13 INTs (including 3 pick-sixes) as the definition of a franchise QB, then more power to you.

Then Geno Smith obviously didn't play well enough in the first 3 quarters. Same with Luck. He was a well below average QB on Sunday night...until the 4th. That is a terribly overrated stat.

A lot of if's, and's and but's there fellas

Texans 20 Seattle 6; Texans 21 Colts 3; (not the first time)

TexansSeminole
11-05-2013, 02:40 PM
58% completion percentage, 7.3 yards per attempt. 8 TD to 13 interceptions, 30 sacks, and 6 fumbles (3 lost) is not good. That's Geno Smith. He has the lowest rating of all starting QBs in the NFL at 71.

Texian
11-05-2013, 03:01 PM
With 15 seconds left, The ball at the Jets 45, Smith ran for 10 to the Bucs 45.
The Bucs committed a stupid 15-yd penalty that have the Jets the ball at the 30.
Folk made a 48-yd FG to win the game.
If you call that a winning drive; it's your choice.

The Bills gave the game away despite two INTs by Smith.

The Falcons also gave the game away; they aren't much better off than the Texans in this regard.

The Pats played an uncharacteristic game.
The Jets missed a 56yd FG, but the Pats committed a 15-yd penalty to give the Jets a first down.
Eleven consecutive run plays on that drive, including a one-yard loss by Smith brought about a 42yd winning FG.

Then Geno Smith obviously didn't play well enough in the first 3 quarters. Same with Luck. He was a well below average QB on Sunday night...until the 4th. That is a terribly overrated stat.

If you think 13 INTs (including 3 pick-sixes) as the definition of a franchise QB, then more power to you.

58% completion percentage, 7.3 yards per attempt. 8 TD to 13 interceptions, 30 sacks, and 6 fumbles (3 lost) is not good. That's Geno Smith. He has the lowest rating of all starting QBs in the NFL at 71.

Tough Crowd....he's a rookie with only 8 career NFL starts

b0ng
11-05-2013, 03:04 PM
Tough Crowd....he's a rookie with only 8 career NFL starts

Is this supposed to sway people over to the side of Geno being a franchise QB? Because it's not really that convincing if it is.

76Texan
11-05-2013, 03:22 PM
There's no ifs and buts for me.
You like Geno Smith 13 INTs; I can't stop you.

Texian
11-05-2013, 03:26 PM
Is this supposed to sway people over to the side of Geno being a franchise QB? Because it's not really that convincing if it is.

There's no ifs and buts for me.
You like Geno Smith 13 INTs; I can't stop you.

Today, the Jets qualify for the playoffs as a 6th seed in the AFC.

76Texan
11-05-2013, 03:29 PM
Btw, Texian,

My top four guys in the last draft, including Geno, were drafted the highest.
It doesn't mean squat really, but I do know about them.
The two dark horses were Dysert and Bray.

Each of them has certain quality and certain deficiency; I don't see any of them as a better prospect than Keenum, unlike the previous year.

76Texan
11-05-2013, 03:32 PM
Today, the Jets qualify for the playoffs as a 6th seed in the AFC.

You're weird sometimes.
Are we evaluating teams, coaches, or individual talents?

Please let me know which one we're talking about.

leebigeztx
11-06-2013, 02:57 AM
With 15 seconds left, The ball at the Jets 45, Smith ran for 10 to the Bucs 45.
The Bucs committed a stupid 15-yd penalty that have the Jets the ball at the 30.
Folk made a 48-yd FG to win the game.
If you call that a winning drive; it's your choice.

The Bills gave the game away despite two INTs by Smith.

The Falcons also gave the game away; they aren't much better off than the Texans in this regard.

The Pats played an uncharacteristic game.
The Jets missed a 56yd FG, but the Pats committed a 15-yd penalty to give the Jets a first down.
Eleven consecutive run plays on that drive, including a one-yard loss by Smith brought about a 42yd winning FG.

You have a pattern of cherry picking when confronted about a player. That's clear when you talk about players you're in love with or vice versa. I'll be the 1st to say geno has been more cold than hot. I'm not making excuses,but who is he throwing to? I agree the pats win was fluke-ish,but when you say the bills gave the game away,that's your cherry picking. I'm guessing you didn't see the 2 bombs he threw from the pocket under pressure? No play action boot to get his feet clean. Just a 5 step drop,man in his face and hit both hil and and holmes in stride.

See,this is where we differ on what we look for in a qb. I personally want a qb who can succeed without having to be schemed. Maybe you like others want a qb the opposite. To say after 2 games or going back to your evaluations that neither boyd or geno are upgrades, doesn't really hold weight. That's your opinion,but I always like to say only time tells. So you can bring your radar gun theory or your still footage to show jackson is a good cornerback,that's your thing. I hope as a texans fan case play continues.

76Texan
11-06-2013, 06:34 PM
You have a pattern of cherry picking when confronted about a player. That's clear when you talk about players you're in love with or vice versa. I'll be the 1st to say geno has been more cold than hot. I'm not making excuses,but who is he throwing to? I agree the pats win was fluke-ish,but when you say the bills gave the game away,that's your cherry picking. I'm guessing you didn't see the 2 bombs he threw from the pocket under pressure? No play action boot to get his feet clean. Just a 5 step drop,man in his face and hit both hil and and holmes in stride.

See,this is where we differ on what we look for in a qb. I personally want a qb who can succeed without having to be schemed. Maybe you like others want a qb the opposite. To say after 2 games or going back to your evaluations that neither boyd or geno are upgrades, doesn't really hold weight. That's your opinion,but I always like to say only time tells. So you can bring your radar gun theory or your still footage to show jackson is a good cornerback,that's your thing. I hope as a texans fan case play continues.

We can differ on our takes, but by your own standard; ie. you want a franchise QB, Geno Smith isn't one; even the Jets coaching staff said so.
There's an article somewhere on the net.

76Texan
11-06-2013, 06:56 PM
Here's the article, you can read for yourself:

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/10/scout_smith_wasnt_drafted_to_be_a_superstar_-_will_need_time_to_develop.html

Mari-OWNED!
11-06-2013, 07:31 PM
There's no ifs and buts for me.
You like Geno Smith 13 INTs; I can't stop you.

I'm not comparing the two, but Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs his rookie year. Just because there are a lot of rookie QBs finding success early on as of late doesn't mean we should condemn the ones who don't just blow up from the get-go.

TexansSeminole
11-06-2013, 09:57 PM
I'm not comparing the two, but Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs his rookie year. Just because there are a lot of rookie QBs finding success early on as of late doesn't mean we should condemn the ones who don't just blow up from the get-go.

He also threw 26 touchdowns. They basically have the same INT per attempt %, but Smith has 2.9% TDs per attempt while Peyton had 4.5%. This is also 15 years ago when the rules were not as slanted toward the offense.

76Texan
11-06-2013, 10:17 PM
I'm not comparing the two, but Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs his rookie year. Just because there are a lot of rookie QBs finding success early on as of late doesn't mean we should condemn the ones who don't just blow up from the get-go.

I just like to mess with Leebigz sometimes, LOL.

He irked me by claiming that Keenum is not an NFL QB even before the guy play a single down.
He also calls Keenum's game against the Chiefs just OK; it's only normal that I call a 2-pick game by Geno against the Bills a ho-hum; those picks could have hurt the Jets, if not for some blunders by the Bills.

Don't forget that Geno and Case run pretty much the same offense.
Holgorsen, the HC at W. Virginia was the OC for the Cougars, when he combine his air raid offense with Briles' version.
They also had the same QB coach.

I can say that I know their games quite well.
Also, Smith was one of the 3 QBs from last year class that I think as having a chance to become a starting QB in the NFL, but I have Manuel the highest upside.
Smith is next and Barkley third.
(This is somewhat close to Leebigz' evaluation.)

I also gave Glennon a fighting chance.
Dysert I saw as a long shot, and Bray as having talent but with red flag for his behavior.

Texian
11-07-2013, 10:36 AM
We can differ on our takes, but by your own standard; ie. you want a franchise QB, Geno Smith isn't one; even the Jets coaching staff said so.
There's an article somewhere on the net.

Here's the article, you can read for yourself:

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/10/scout_smith_wasnt_drafted_to_be_a_superstar_-_will_need_time_to_develop.html

I'm not comparing the two, but Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs his rookie year. Just because there are a lot of rookie QBs finding success early on as of late doesn't mean we should condemn the ones who don't just blow up from the get-go.

He also threw 26 touchdowns. They basically have the same INT per attempt %, but Smith has 2.9% TDs per attempt while Peyton had 4.5%. This is also 15 years ago when the rules were not as slanted toward the offense.

You know how it takes a new OC with a new Offensive system 2 years to fully implement and completely install the new offense? Kind of like how it took Alex Gibbs 2 years to install his ZBS and how it took the OL 2 years to completely understand and learn Gibb's system. That's the same reason you need to give a rookie QB 30 NFL starts (2 years) before you really know just how good or bad that rookie QB is going to be. Geno Smith has 8 starts as an NFL QB. I will venture to say he will be better after 30 starts. How much better? I don't know. That's why you have to give them at least 30 starts.

TexansSeminole
11-07-2013, 09:34 PM
You know how it takes a new OC with a new Offensive system 2 years to fully implement and completely install the new offense? Kind of like how it took Alex Gibbs 2 years to install his ZBS and how it took the OL 2 years to completely understand and learn Gibb's system. That's the same reason you need to give a rookie QB 30 NFL starts (2 years) before you really know just how good or bad that rookie QB is going to be. Geno Smith has 8 starts as an NFL QB. I will venture to say he will be better after 30 starts. How much better? I don't know. That's why you have to give them at least 30 starts.

I'm not saying the case is closed on Geno Smith, just that he hasn't been good so far. He's been inconsistent and bad, in my opinion.

leebigeztx
11-08-2013, 06:01 PM
Here's the article, you can read for yourself:

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/10/scout_smith_wasnt_drafted_to_be_a_superstar_-_will_need_time_to_develop.html

So when rex called sanchez a franchise qb despite have 0 special traits, how did u take those comments?

thunderkyss
01-02-2014, 02:53 AM
Personally, I think he fits the Texans well. He can extend plays with his feet, he shows up in big games, he's tough, and he is a winner. He is inaccurate at times, but nothing that can't be corrected.


He is my #1 Senior QB. Strong, durable, can extend plays, performs better under pressure which is a reflection a top level competitor. So I would feel comfortable he could handle this city's expectations of what a QB should be, plug & play as new leader of a more dynamic Texan offense, especially in the red zone.

I like him a lot too .... easily the top SR QB in this class but I don't think the Texans pick will come up before his named is called unless they continue to underperform.


So has Boyd become a complete dud now? If the Texans were to take a non-QB with the #1 overall, then this guy later in the draft, would we have sufficiently "addressed" our QB situation?

Wolf6151
01-02-2014, 04:22 AM
So has Boyd become a complete dud now? If the Texans were to take a non-QB with the #1 overall, then this guy later in the draft, would we have sufficiently "addressed" our QB situation?

I don't think he's become a complete dud, but I did a review of him a couple months ago and was not impressed with what I saw. He strikes me as a good backup, or mediocre starter who will have moderate success depending on the team around him. I don't think he'll ever be the QB to carry his team to success. If the Texans took Boyd any earlier than the 3rd round then I'd be very disappointed and would expect them to address QB again the next year in the 1st round of 2015. There are better QB's to be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of 2014. I'd rather have McCarron or Murray.

TexansFTW
01-02-2014, 01:23 PM
So has Boyd become a complete dud now? If the Texans were to take a non-QB with the #1 overall, then this guy later in the draft, would we have sufficiently "addressed" our QB situation?

Boyd is a loser. I was all over the Boyd train and trying hard to believe and buy into a short QB because of RusWil and Brees thing, but this guy sucks.

He cost me an embarrassing bet with a friend and after that he is dead to me.

So, NO, he is not an answer if we get him late. Only QB I might gamble on 3rd round and later would be someone like David Fales. I will probably be on an island there though.

If the Texans took Boyd any earlier than the 3rd round then I'd be very disappointed and would expect them to address QB again the next year in the 1st round of 2015.

I don't expect Boyd to get drafted until end of round 3 or round 4 unless he beasts out in the Orange Bowl which I doubt. He's probably gonna get his A handed to him.

leebigeztx
01-03-2014, 12:47 AM
Boyd is a loser. I was all over the Boyd train and trying hard to believe and buy into a short QB because of RusWil and Brees thing, but this guy sucks.

He cost me an embarrassing bet with a friend and after that he is dead to me.

So, NO, he is not an answer if we get him late. Only QB I might gamble on 3rd round and later would be someone like David Fales. I will probably be on an island there though.



I don't expect Boyd to get drafted until end of round 3 or round 4 unless he beasts out in the Orange Bowl which I doubt. He's probably gonna get his A handed to him.

I'm saying, boyd is a better prospect than a lot of these guys. Mettenburger,Mccarron is just a few. He has inconsistent footwork,but when he sets up properly, he throws good balls.

TexansSeminole
01-03-2014, 10:05 AM
So has Boyd become a complete dud now? If the Texans were to take a non-QB with the #1 overall, then this guy later in the draft, would we have sufficiently "addressed" our QB situation?

No, not at all. I think he lost a bit of value this year, but not nearly enough to consider him a dud.

I think he'll be a second rounder, third at the latest. I would like for us to target him if we end up not going with a QB at 1-1.


I don't expect Boyd to get drafted until end of round 3 or round 4 unless he beasts out in the Orange Bowl which I doubt. He's probably gonna get his A handed to him.

I wouldn't bet on that, you're likely to lose again. Boyd is going to light Ohio State up. OSU's defense sucks and their best corner is hurt.

NastyNate
01-03-2014, 08:14 PM
Boyd looking damn good tonight so far before the safety.

TexansSeminole
01-03-2014, 08:19 PM
Boyd looking damn good tonight so far before the safety.

Hard to blame the safety on him too. Two guys on him and he had to unload the ball.

That flip pass was not well executed. He needs to be careful there. He made up for it in that past drive to make it 21-9.

ArlingtonTexan
01-03-2014, 09:03 PM
Only because don't want to look nor start another thread, anybody I argued with about Hopkins versus Watkins based mostly on pure production in 2012, I was plenty wrong.

NastyNate
01-03-2014, 09:09 PM
Only because don't want to look nor start another thread, anybody I argued with about Hopkins versus Watkins based mostly on pure production in 2012, I was plenty wrong.

I guess I missed it. I'm assuming you said something along the lines of Hopkins' production was due in large part to them doubling Sammy Watkins? Or countered that point?

ArlingtonTexan
01-03-2014, 09:15 PM
I guess I missed it. I'm assuming you said something along the lines of Hopkins' production was due in large part to them doubling Sammy Watkins? Or countered that point?

Worse if anything...I actually downgraded Watkins because his suspension and injury last year to being overrated and Hopkins to being underrated. Hopkins had silly numbers last year, and Watkins were overall meh...I ignored the fact that while Hopkins will probably be a nice pro WR, Watkins can do spit that Hopkins can't even dream about.

TexansSeminole
01-03-2014, 10:16 PM
Only because don't want to look nor start another thread, anybody I argued with about Hopkins versus Watkins based mostly on pure production in 2012, I was plenty wrong.

Glad you have had a chance to watch some Watkins.

Nice throw by Boyd there to Watkins. Can't get enough of Watkins.

NastyNate
01-03-2014, 11:12 PM
Wow, horrible pick!

NastyNate
01-03-2014, 11:14 PM
Interception bowl?

WolverineFan
01-03-2014, 11:27 PM
Watkins was extremely raw as a freshman and sophomore. He excelled mostly on just plain speed. This year he has really taken it to the next level as a receiver.

TexansSeminole
01-03-2014, 11:33 PM
Watkins was extremely raw as a freshman and sophomore. He excelled mostly on just plain speed. This year he has really taken it to the next level as a receiver.

Yeah, he is a great player. I would love him on the Texans.

AT, that was you and I who originally got into the argument about Watkins BTW.

leebigeztx
01-03-2014, 11:44 PM
As I stated before, I would take b4 a lot of qbs not named bridgewater. His mechanics get slopy at times.

Trap_Star
01-03-2014, 11:47 PM
he looks he'll deal with weight/conditioning problems year after year.

WolverineFan
01-03-2014, 11:49 PM
he looks he'll deal with weight/conditioning problems year after year.

He's pretty athletic. Has a very McNair-like build.

The Pencil Neck
01-03-2014, 11:55 PM
I kinda like Boyd.

Of course, Watkins is freaking. in. sane. And that could make Boyd look better than he is.

But I liked Boyd last year when I was looking at some of Hopkins' tape. I like that he puts the ball in places for his receivers to make plays. Like I said though, that's easy with someone like Watkins.

beerlover
01-04-2014, 01:02 AM
I believe he has a legitimate shot to be a starting QB in the NFL someday. He is a bigger version of Russell Wilson, who was graded behind Foles, Cousins, Tannehill, RG3, Luck & Weeden. Incidentally, Foles wound up in Philadelphia in DeMeco Ryans trade. Texans got a 4th for Ryans (Ben Jones) & they flipped 3rd's, Houston with #76 took Brandon Brooks, while Philly used Texan slot #88 to select Foles.

leebigeztx
01-04-2014, 01:39 AM
I believe he has a legitimate shot to be a starting QB in the NFL someday. He is a bigger version of Russell Wilson, who was graded behind Foles, Cousins, Tannehill, RG3, Luck & Weeden. Incidentally, Foles wound up in Philadelphia in DeMeco Ryans trade. Texans got a 4th for Ryans (Ben Jones) & they flipped 3rd's, Houston with #76 took Brandon Brooks, while Philly used Texan slot #88 to select Foles.


I think if boyd had come out last yr,he would've been drafted about where he will be drafted this yr, top 2nd -3rd rd. There is a lot to like about boyd from a talent point. He's sturdy,has a great arm with a compact delivery,and he's very mobile. I don't like the offense he plays in,but I don't like a lot of college offenses. Boyd gets in trouble with footwork. He can throw from various platform and it looks like he has 10" hands. When he's mechanically sound,he can make every throw accurate. When he's not,he'll skip a slant route like mcnabb or cutler. He's gotten better every yr. He'll probably measure at 6'1 220lbs just eyeballing him. If the texans were to take some other than Bridgewater at #1, I would like boyd wth the 33rd pick.

aussie_texan
01-04-2014, 01:45 AM
I believe he has a legitimate shot to be a starting QB in the NFL someday. He is a bigger version of Russell Wilson, who was graded behind Foles, Cousins, Tannehill, RG3, Luck & Weeden. Incidentally, Foles wound up in Philadelphia in DeMeco Ryans trade. Texans got a 4th for Ryans (Ben Jones) & they flipped 3rd's, Houston with #76 took Brandon Brooks, while Philly used Texan slot #88 to select Foles.

yeah but will didn't see is draft stock fall dramatically in his last year.

beerlover
01-04-2014, 10:26 AM
yeah but will didn't see is draft stock fall dramatically in his last year.

check out beginning of this thread, beginning of October, little movement, if anything he played himself into shape as season went along. I still like him.

beerlover
01-04-2014, 11:08 AM
I think if boyd had come out last yr,he would've been drafted about where he will be drafted this yr, top 2nd -3rd rd. There is a lot to like about boyd from a talent point. He's sturdy,has a great arm with a compact delivery,and he's very mobile. I don't like the offense he plays in,but I don't like a lot of college offenses. Boyd gets in trouble with footwork. He can throw from various platform and it looks like he has 10" hands. When he's mechanically sound,he can make every throw accurate. When he's not,he'll skip a slant route like mcnabb or cutler. He's gotten better every yr. He'll probably measure at 6'1 220lbs just eyeballing him. If the texans were to take some other than Bridgewater at #1, I would like boyd wth the 33rd pick.

It's all up to B'OB now. If Boyd is his fallback position guy then I'm good with it. Was trying to compare his last game performance for Clemson to Russell Wilson for Wisconsin against Oregon but its really not apples to apples. 300 yards, 19/25 2 TD & 1 pick. Russell only rushed 6 times for 18 yards but then he had Monte Ball. QBR 92.3

In his career, Boyd has thrown for 11,526 yards and 102 touchdowns, which is an ACC record, and he has led Clemson to three consecutive 10-win seasons. As a senior, Boyd threw 29 touchdowns and rushed for nine more, all while leading an offense that averages 329.8 passing yards per game, which ranks No. 11 in the nation.

Boyd Orange outing had 20 rushing attempts for 137 yards & a score, mostly on designed plays but often when flushed & nowhere to throw the ball. 31-40 378 yards 5 TD's 2 INT's & 2 sacks. QBR 85.1

Bottom line both where record setting, athletic QB's for their respective schools. Wilson is just very efficient, smart & despite his lack of size the better athlete. I like your eyeball measurement for Boyd, think that is about right, he does need some weight on his bones because he receives & dishes out more contact, important for his durability. Also feel O'Brian would be able to harness his talent & make him more cerebral, work through his progressions.

thunderkyss
01-04-2014, 03:22 PM
Bottom line both where record setting, athletic QB's for their respective schools. Wilson is just very efficient, smart & despite his lack of size the better athlete.

It also helped that he went to Seattle, he had the beast & a heck of a defense. He had to do more than Luck, but the point is I hope our rookie QB gets as much help.

TexansFTW
01-07-2014, 10:40 AM
It also helped that he went to Seattle, he had the beast & a heck of a defense. He had to do more than Luck, but the point is I hope our rookie QB gets as much help.

Is this a typo? I won't go into detail on this thread because this isn't the place if that's what you meant to say, but it will be better for me going forward gauging your posts if I see them.

"He had to do more than Luck"

Playoffs
01-15-2014, 01:54 PM
Ouch...
darren (nc)

how much did tahj boyd hurt his draft stock this year?
Mel Kiper (1:36 PM)

I think he moved from maybe a 3rd round pick to maybe a 5-6 round pick.http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/49823/football-insider-mel-kiper

aussie_texan
01-15-2014, 05:37 PM
Ouch...

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/49823/football-insider-mel-kiper

thats a little harsh. i see the drop more from a early 2nd rounder to a 3rd rounder

Playoffs
01-22-2014, 01:03 PM
Really well-spoken, interesting young man, but...

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline
Packers scout not alone in feeling Tajh Boyd/Clemson undraftable. Another league insider told me they would not use a draft pick on the QB.

Blake
01-23-2014, 08:52 AM
Tajh Boyd has been running Chad Morris' hurry up "spread offense" philosophy that he learned from Gus Malzahn.

While coming from a spread offense raises red flags, as well as his double digit interceptions each year, Boyd is a well rounded QB. I feel he does everything well. Nothing great and nothing poor.

I think if he can have time to acclimate himself to the NFL he can be our QB of the future. He will need to work on scanning the entire field and throwing open a receiver.

If you take Boyd, it is with the understanding that he needs time to learn. He is not going to be able to come in and play right away like Russell Wilson. So a QB plan B will be needed for the 2014 season.

I still think a 2nd or 3rd round pick would be well spent.

badboy
01-23-2014, 10:41 AM
Really well-spoken, interesting young man, but...

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPaulineSilly are statements by anyone about any player without saying why.

Blake
02-03-2014, 08:34 AM
With whispers of Boyd dropping in the draft (which I think is silly) I am really excited about drafting him. I mocked him to us in the 2nd. No way I wait further than 3rd to grab him. Let him sit for a season and learn thus allowing us to grab BPA round 1 and 2.

infantrycak
02-03-2014, 09:12 AM
With whispers of Boyd dropping in the draft (which I think is silly) I am really excited about drafting him. I mocked him to us in the 2nd. No way I wait further than 3rd to grab him. Let him sit for a season and learn thus allowing us to grab BPA round 1 and 2.

Well there is almost zero chance the Texans wait 'til rounds 3+ to address QB so you can kiss that goodbye.

thunderkyss
02-03-2014, 09:33 AM
Well there is almost zero chance the Texans wait 'til rounds 3+ to address QB so you can kiss that goodbye.

I thought it was a good idea for when the Redskins traded up to get RG3, then used a 4th (I think) to grab Cousins as a developmental "just in case"

If the Texans take a sure thing like Bridgewater 1-1, I doubt we'll do anything like that, but if they take a chance on a Manziel/Bortles guy, or a Mettenberger/Garoppolo in the 2nd, I can see them taking Boyd or Lynch in the later rounds.

Blake
02-03-2014, 10:00 AM
Well there is almost zero chance the Texans wait 'til rounds 3+ to address QB so you can kiss that goodbye.

I think that depends on if Bill O'Brien wants a vet QB or not.

"So your sayin' there's a chance."

bah007
02-03-2014, 10:12 AM
I thought it was a good idea for when the Redskins traded up to get RG3, then used a 4th (I think) to grab Cousins as a developmental "just in case"

If the Texans take a sure thing like Bridgewater 1-1, I doubt we'll do anything like that, but if they take a chance on a Manziel/Bortles guy, or a Mettenberger/Garoppolo in the 2nd, I can see them taking Boyd or Lynch in the later rounds.

Bortles in the 1st and Murray in the 5th wouldn't be bad. It's not like Murray wouldn't immediately be the second best QB on the roster. He can battle Keenum and Yates is gone.

infantrycak
02-03-2014, 10:33 AM
I think that depends on if Bill O'Brien wants a vet QB or not.

"So your sayin' there's a chance."

I don't disagree with that as a theoretical chance but given this FA class I don't think it is a realistic one.

Playoffs
02-11-2014, 12:45 PM
Tajh Boyd Scouting Report: NFL Outlook for Clemson QB (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1950022-tajh-boyd-scouting-report-nfl-outlook-for-clemson-qb)
Positives
...
Negatives
...
NFL Comparison: Jake Locker, QB, Tennessee Titans

Collegiate Statistics
...
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/480221/tajh-boyd

Personal Notes

Graduated December 2013 with a degree in sociology.
Second-Team All-ACC 2013.
Permanent team co-captain 2013.
ACC Player of the Year 2012.
First-Team All-ACC 2012.
First-Team All-ACC 2011.
ACC Academic Honor Roll 2011.
Redshirted 2009.

Overall

An experienced and highly decorated three-year starter, Boyd has been a visible figure in college football since his sophomore season. His combination of mobility, toughness and arm strength helped him to lead Clemson to a record of 32-8 over the past three years. While his production was prolific at the college level, erratic accuracy and trouble reading defenses could contribute to a rocky transition at the next level. He will require some development before he is thrust on the field in the NFL and projects as a backup in the short term.

Draft Projection: Fifth Round