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thunderkyss
10-04-2013, 03:34 PM
Do you think Ben Tate's YPC would remain high if he got more carries?

Even in the last game, Arian broke off some good runs, but when we got into the third & 4th qtr, the Seahawks were shortening a lot of those runs. There's a lot more traffic around the LoS, more penetration given up by the OL.

Personally I'd like to see Tate get the bulk of the carries anyway because I'd like to preserve Arian a little bit & if we're going to be losing Tate anyway, might as well load him up with the extra wear, tear, & mileage.

But that's me.

Nitrofish
10-04-2013, 03:59 PM
Do you think Ben Tate's YPC would remain high if he got more carries?

Even in the last game, Arian broke off some good runs, but when we got into the third & 4th qtr, the Seahawks were shortening a lot of those runs. There's a lot more traffic around the LoS, more penetration given up by the OL.

Personally I'd like to see Tate get the bulk of the carries anyway because I'd like to preserve Arian a little bit & if we're going to be losing Tate anyway, might as well load him up with the extra wear, tear, & mileage.

But that's me.

IMO all you will see with more carries is either injury, more fumbles, or both. I say trade Tate this season and get something for him while his value is high.

Rey
10-04-2013, 04:06 PM
Tate is leading the nfl in yards after contact per carry.

I think Tate is a better runner than Arian at this point in their careers. I think Arian is better in pass pro and catches the ball better.

But I think Tate is a better runner when he's not fumbling.

I would give him more carries because I think it would help our running game be more productive.

ObsiWan
10-04-2013, 05:43 PM
Tate is leading the nfl in yards after contact per carry.

I think Tate is a better runner than Arian at this point in their careers. I think Arian is better in pass pro and catches the ball better.

But I think Tate is a better runner when he's not fumbling.

I would give him more carries because I think it would help our running game be more productive.

Tate definitely has "less mileage".
I sure wish there was a way we could keep them both.

And I'd really like to see what Cierre Wood has to offer against 1st string defenses.

EllisUnit
10-04-2013, 07:33 PM
no i dont think so, he is always so fresh when he comes in. IMO tate is a good RB but will never be the kind of guy like foster who can carry a team on his back.

thunderkyss
10-04-2013, 07:40 PM
no i dont think so, he is always so fresh when he comes in. IMO tate is a good RB but will never be the kind of guy like foster who can carry a team on his back.

If Foster didn't work out, I believe Tate would be an even bigger star than Arian. He's going to go to another team, & he & Arian will continue their "friendly" competition.

b0ng
10-04-2013, 07:44 PM
More volume means a drop in YPC.

drs23
10-04-2013, 07:50 PM
Heck no, do the math. Ain't gonna happen. Ben needs to keep on doing what he's doing for his next team.

He should retire comfortably.

DocBar
10-04-2013, 08:00 PM
Of course his YPC would drop, but I'd like to see a better split between Foster and Tate.

I wouldn't even mind seeing their roles reversed to see how Tate does with enough carries to get in a groove.

Corrosion
10-04-2013, 08:03 PM
Depends on how often he breaks off a 60 yarder to pad his YPC. Those big runs really skew that stat.

Goatcheese
10-04-2013, 08:21 PM
I think it will remain high, but not as high as it is right now. He's a pretty steady 5 YPC kind of back.

thunderkyss
10-04-2013, 08:27 PM
Depends on how often he breaks off a 60 yarder to pad his YPC. Those big runs really skew that stat.

Except we like it when our guys rip off those big runs.

thetexanator
10-04-2013, 10:02 PM
wish we could see it. but he probably wont get out of kubes doghouse until week 14.

Rey
10-05-2013, 06:51 AM
I don't understand not giving Tate more carries. Might as well. If we are going to let him go at the end of the year anyways we might as well save Arian a bit more and grind Tate...

Unless they would entertain trading Arian for a good deal...maybe a nice pick or to move up in the first round.

And keep Tate and wood.


But something I thought about in regards to the thread: does it really matter if his ypc dropped?

Fact is, Tate is not that far behind Arian yardage wise. And he has significantly fewer carries. Yeah his ypc might drop, but he would likely still be the more productive runner on a per carry basis. Unless he started going backwards

thunderkyss
10-05-2013, 08:02 AM
But something I thought about in regards to the thread: does it really matter if his ypc dropped?

Fact is, Tate is not that far behind Arian yardage wise. And he has significantly fewer carries. Yeah his ypc might drop, but he would likely still be the more productive runner on a per carry basis. Unless he started going backwards

I was thinking a big part of the reason for Arian's low ypc, this year & last was getting those carries late in the game when we're trying to run out the clock. I was thinking if Tate were in there, he'd get more of those 2 yard carries, a few carries for a loss, etc...

Or I wondered if people still expect to see him break those 7+ yard runs at the end of games.

I do believe his numbers are better than Arian's, partly because he's a more direct runner. He's got true speed & real burst.... but he's also not getting a bunch of 3rd & 1s or goal line carries either.

So, if you're looking to trade Ben (which I don't think is going to happen) do you want to give him more carries, putting him in more of those "get stuffed" situations?

HJam72
10-05-2013, 12:50 PM
I think his numbers would go down, but I'd like to see him get more carries--somewhere between 1/3rd of them and almost 1/2. People sometimes say that Foster gets into his groove after a lot of carries, but I think that's more the D against him wearing down. Tate could even help with that some because he is a bruiser.

Rey
10-05-2013, 02:23 PM
I was thinking a big part of the reason for Arian's low ypc, this year & last was getting those carries late in the game when we're trying to run out the clock. I was thinking if Tate were in there, he'd get more of those 2 yard carries, a few carries for a loss, etc...

Or I wondered if people still expect to see him break those 7+ yard runs at the end of games.

I do believe his numbers are better than Arian's, partly because he's a more direct runner. He's got true speed & real burst.... but he's also not getting a bunch of 3rd & 1s or goal line carries either.

So, if you're looking to trade Ben (which I don't think is going to happen) do you want to give him more carries, putting him in more of those "get stuffed" situations?

His ypc might go down, but his total numbers would go up.

Arians ypc have declined each season, but he's still thought of as a good back. I think with backs the gaudy ypc numbers on not as many carries aren't as impressive as a reliable guy with a lot of carries that's able to consistently churn out yards.

I think if the texans wanted to inflate Tate's trade value, they'd want to show that he can get the tough yards, be a good RZ runner, stay healthy with more carries....i.e the things you want from a franchise back.

But I think they are more concerned with winning games and they believe giving Arian a lot more carries is the best way to do that.

cstyle42
10-05-2013, 03:37 PM
Once he leaves the Texans he will do great like most do. Let him play in a system and culture that just cares about winning and nothing else.

Corrosion
10-05-2013, 05:21 PM
Once he leaves the Texans he will do great like most do. Let him play in a system and culture that just cares about winning and nothing else.

Meh , back to back division championships and playoff wins in the past two seasons .... that's not winning unless you realize that only one of 32 franchises wins a Lombardi Trophy each year.


Tate is playing well here .... He's just stuck behind a guy who is top three at his position in the NFL in Arian Foster.

Tate will play well elsewhere , pending he can stay healthy (which is questionable).

badboy
10-05-2013, 05:49 PM
Kubes is under the gun again and I think he will keep Tate as is (which is successful) rest of season to get wins. I prefer a trade.

Corrosion
10-05-2013, 06:04 PM
Kubes is under the gun again and I think he will keep Tate as is (which is successful) rest of season to get wins. I prefer a trade.

If the goal is a super bowl this season .... does trading Tate help you reach that goal?? I don't think so.

badboy
10-05-2013, 06:12 PM
If the goal is a super bowl this season .... does trading Tate help you reach that goal?? I don't think so.I think Foster is hitting his stride and Wood offers enough to rest him occasionally. Of course I want something good for Tate and not just a trade. I think Tate's effectiveness reduces as season progresses.

thunderkyss
10-05-2013, 09:21 PM
Arians ypc have declined each season, but he's still thought of as a good back. I think with backs the gaudy ypc numbers on not as many carries aren't as impressive as a reliable guy with a lot of carries that's able to consistently churn out yards.

You're absolutely right, & that's why 1000 yard seasons are "notable."

A 1000 yard season in & of itself is no big deal, just like you've stated. However, you get a guy who churns out 1000 yards year after year, you've got yourself a franchise back.

There will probably be a bunch of guys who'll run for a thousand this year, but I bet very few of them ran for a thousand last year, or the year before that, & most of them won't run for 1000 yards next year.

Same thing with 4000 yard QBs. No doubt, there are some badasses who'll throw for 5000 yards year in & year out (I think there's a grand total of 1 guy with back to back 5000 yard seasons in the league right now).

You can make it 4700 yards, 4500 yards.. whatever you want. But the list of guys with 4000 yards over the last 4 years is still a pretty impressive list.

kingtexan
10-06-2013, 12:29 PM
If we want to have a chance to win today:

Foster - 30 carries

Tate - 30 carries

Keep the ball out of Matts hands ...

DocBar
10-06-2013, 01:06 PM
You're absolutely right, & that's why 1000 yard seasons are "notable."

A 1000 yard season in & of itself is no big deal, just like you've stated. However, you get a guy who churns out 1000 yards year after year, you've got yourself a franchise back.

There will probably be a bunch of guys who'll run for a thousand this year, but I bet very few of them ran for a thousand last year, or the year before that, & most of them won't run for 1000 yards next year.

Same thing with 4000 yard QBs. No doubt, there are some badasses who'll throw for 5000 yards year in & year out (I think there's a grand total of 1 guy with back to back 5000 yard seasons in the league right now).

You can make it 4700 yards, 4500 yards.. whatever you want. But the list of guys with 4000 yards over the last 4 years is still a pretty impressive list. Here's (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2007/370-carries-revisited)a good article on RB's getting over used.

drs23
10-06-2013, 01:39 PM
...-screwing tate of millions of dollars by not giving him enough refs.


Tate has the same number of refs as every other player on the field the last time I counted.

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 03:00 PM
Tate has the same number of refs as every other player on the field the last time I counted.

C'mon brey... it di aksent mahn.

IDEXAN
10-06-2013, 03:54 PM
Tate has always been a better pure runner than Foster because he's got what
Foster doesn't have which is a real burst and also better top-end. And I think Tate in addition is a stronger, harder runner inside the tackles.

Corrosion
10-06-2013, 04:30 PM
Tate has always been a better pure runner than Foster because he's got what
Foster doesn't have which is a real burst and also better top-end. And I think Tate in addition is a stronger, harder runner inside the tackles.

Who's the better receiver ?


Who protects the ball better ?


Who picks up the blitz better ?


Yeah , Tate's a strong runner and I like him .... wouldn't mind him starting IF he wasn't behind a superior player.

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 04:34 PM
Yeah , Tate's a strong runner and I like him .... wouldn't mind him starting IF he wasn't behind a superior player.

I've always thought Foster ran better when Tate's involved in the game, like they try to one-up each other after every run.

Rey
10-06-2013, 05:12 PM
Who's the better receiver ?


Who protects the ball better ?


Who picks up the blitz better ?


Yeah , Tate's a strong runner and I like him .... wouldn't mind him starting IF he wasn't behind a superior player.

I don't think Arian is superior at all.

He has better hands, but so what? When was the last time his good hands made a difference? It's not like he's catching a bunch of passes and hashing defenses like Marshall Faulk.

And I also think the lack of reps is a part of Tate not being as secure with the ball and not showing his ability to pass protect.

But really I'm not as concerned with that as I think he's better with the ball in his hands at this point in their careers. I don't think Arian is quite as good as he's been in the past and I think Tate has not been given an opportunity to really flex.

But that seems to be about status quo for this team. Drag their feet on everything. One step at a time. Ho-hum. Whistle while you work. Don't want to rattle the cage too much.

IDEXAN
10-06-2013, 10:23 PM
Who's the better receiver ?


Who protects the ball better ?


Who picks up the blitz better ?


Yeah , Tate's a strong runner and I like him .... wouldn't mind him starting IF he wasn't behind a superior player.
That's like saying former Texans WR Walters was an excellent blocker.
First and most of all, WRs are paid to catch passes just as RBs are paid to run the ball.