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View Full Version : IS USC Better Than TAMU?


thetexanator
10-03-2013, 09:24 AM
whys sumlin even considering this? seems like tamu is on par with usc. anyone know what tamu pays sumlin? didnt he just build a huge house?

Rey
10-03-2013, 09:30 AM
He'd probably have a better chance at a nat'l title at USC. I am clueless about the money aspect though.

Recruiting would probably be easier as well.

Texan_Bill
10-03-2013, 10:12 AM
His original contract at TAMU was for around $2 million/ year. Then he received an extension paying him a hair over $ 3 million a year until around 2017 plus bonuses.... IIRC.

Not to worry. He won't be going anywhere until the pros come a callin'!

Texan_Bill
10-03-2013, 10:16 AM
You can view Sumlin's full contract HERE (http://www.scribd.com/doc/127787245/Sumlin-Contract-2013)

Ranger Tom
10-03-2013, 11:27 AM
USC is still under sanctions, and I understand that they were a contributing factor to the results that Lane Kiffen got (or maybe he's really that bad). So that's a reason for Sumlin to stay where he is.

Stemp
10-03-2013, 12:48 PM
A&m can match money plus his wife and kids love CS.
USC will be a rebuilding project for whatever coach they hire so they will have to pay big

Once texas money whips Saban for $10M per year it won't matter anyways right longhorns??
:lol:

2012Champs
10-03-2013, 01:03 PM
Is it now? Probably not. Is it a better opportunity? Long term I think so unless the Johhny Football craze leads to a ground swell of recruiting. At a min I would see if A&M would up my money if USC is really poking around

TexansSeminole
10-03-2013, 02:18 PM
USC is definitely a better opportunity and a better program than TAMU. As Rey said, recruiting would a lot easier. When USC is good, they routinely get their pick of some of the best players in the nation.

b0ng
10-03-2013, 02:30 PM
The Pac-12 is a way easier conference to negotiate a NC shot than the SEC. Leaving so soon after what feels like just arriving at TAMU would definitely leave a bad aftertaste in a lot of people's mouths (heh). I think right now Sumlin has just as good of a shot at any offensive player in the country as any other coach. Defense maybe not as much, but he's got his team up there in rankings and exposure for the moment, so I don't see recruiting being a big angle to getting him there.

The easiness of the Pac-10 plus a significant pay bump would probably be the biggest factors if Sumlin were to leave.

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 02:38 PM
Lol, no way is recruiting an answer. Texas A&M is killing it in recruiting, if you haven't looked lately. He built a house here and A&M can probably match him for money. He might milk this for a bigger contract, I guess.

As bong said, the easiness of the Pac-12 is a possible attracting factor.

ChampionTexan
10-03-2013, 03:16 PM
The Pac-12 is a way easier conference to negotiate a NC shot than the SEC.

The easiness of the Pac-10 plus a significant pay bump would probably be the biggest factors if Sumlin were to leave.


As bong said, the easiness of the Pac-12 is a possible attracting factor.

Just for the record, I couldn't disagree with this more. If you're only comparing Pac 12 to SEC, then there is some truth to it (although probably not nearly as much as you seem to think). If you're comparing it to Division I in general, I believe the Pac 12 is rapidly improving and could easily be the second best conference in the NCAA. Oregon's got a track record, and while there's been a coaching change, right now things seem to be going better for their current coach than their former coach. Stanford's been a consistent top 10 team under David Shaw, and you've got UCLA, Washington, and even Arizona State who appear to be very much on the rise.

If ease of conference were the only factor in Sumlin's decision, TAMU loses out to USC big time.

b0ng
10-03-2013, 03:30 PM
Just for the record, I couldn't disagree with this more. If you're only comparing Pac 12 to SEC, then there is some truth to it (although probably not nearly as much as you seem to think). If you're comparing it to Division I in general, I believe the Pac 12 is rapidly improving and could easily be the second best conference in the NCAA. Oregon's got a track record, and while there's been a coaching change, right now things seem to be going better for their current coach than their former coach. Stanford's been a consistent top 10 team under David Shaw, and you've got UCLA, Washington, and even Arizona State who appear to be very much on the rise.

If ease of conference were the only factor in Sumlin's decision, TAMU loses out to USC big time.

Of course it's a comparison between the PAC and the SEC, since those would be the only two conferences being discussed in a potential Sumlin move. And while Oregon looks pretty good and Stanford has a really good defense, that's a far cry from 'Bama/Georgia/LSU/UF (when they are good). Hell, even Ole Miss has a pretty stout team, which you don't see every year.

Texan_Bill
10-03-2013, 03:47 PM
Food for thought, Since USC's last National Championship:

2005 Texas Big XII
2006 Florida SEC
2007 LSU SEC
2008 Florida SEC
2009 Alabama SEC
2010 Auburn SEC
2011 Alabama SEC
2012 Alabama SEC

2012Champs
10-03-2013, 03:52 PM
Lol, no way is recruiting an answer. Texas A&M is killing it in recruiting, if you haven't looked lately. He built a house here and A&M can probably match him for money. He might milk this for a bigger contract, I guess.

As bong said, the easiness of the Pac-12 is a possible attracting factor.


I would think next year post johnny football there will be a dropoff for A&M that is sizable

Hervoyel
10-03-2013, 04:05 PM
I'll enjoy it immensely if Sumlin does decide to bail out of College Station and head for the west coast. I'll be grinning ear to ear over it actually.

I mean, how can you hold it against the man? Coaching at USC is an opportunity to coach at a school that's in rare company. A&M has never and will never be in that tier.

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 04:06 PM
I would think next year post johnny football there will be a dropoff for A&M that is sizable

Depends. We do have Kyle Allen (Rivals #1 ranked QB) coming in.
The WR corps will be even better (return of Ricky Seals Jones from medical redshirt) and the defense will have had a year to mature (plus I think we have found our ILB answer in Claiborne). There's going to be a QB dropoff for sure, but how much is the question. As long as we go 1-0 every week it's all good.

The1ApplePie
10-03-2013, 04:10 PM
I'll enjoy it immensely if Sumlin does decide to bail out of College Station and head for the west coast. I'll be grinning ear to ear over it actually.

I mean, how can you hold it against the man? Coaching at USC is an opportunity to coach at a school that's in rare company. A&M has never and will never be in tier.

This.

With Summlin, T&M will be the Leach-era Texas Tech of the SEC at best. A great team, but never really at the top of the conference.

Once Manziel bails...

Texan_Bill
10-03-2013, 04:12 PM
Depends. We do have Kyle Allen (Rivals #1 ranked pro-style QB) coming in.
The WR corps will be even better (return of Ricky Seals Jones from medical redshirt) and the defense will have had a year to mature (plus I think we have found our ILB answer in Claiborne). There's going to be a QB dropoff for sure, but how much is the question. As long as we go 1-0 every week it's all good.

Also, I think Matt Joeckel is a junior and there is true freshman Kenny Hill.

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 04:14 PM
Also, I think Matt Joeckel is a junior and there is true freshman Kenny Hill.

Yep. Joeckel has looked miles better than Kenny Hill at this point, but I think that's only to be expected.

All the people saying that Texas A&M will never ever break into elite tier football programs boggle my mind. It's like being elite is something that doesn't change. Do "elite" football programs that go through periods of crap stay "elite?" I'm not saying A&M will become elite, I'm saying A&M can become elite. Elite is not some never-changing old guard of schools.

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 04:19 PM
There are three main reasons a coach would leave one top tier program for another. Before I get there, yes I understand that there are folks who think the Texas A&M job is on a lower tier than the USC job. Those folks are dumb and can step off. Back to the three reasons:

1) One school provides something another school cannot.

Whether it's financial or fan support, the coach in question has to feel as if he is unable to get something at one school that the other school can provide. In the case of Bielema, Wisconsin balked at giving him more money to pay his assistants.

So the question for Aggie fans becomes whether Kevin Sumlin feels that USC can offer him something that A&M can't... and for the life of me I can't figure out what it would be. Given our recent fundraising milestones, money really doesn't seem to be an issue. So tell me what, tangibly, can USC provide that A&M can't? And by tangibly, I mean don't say "prestige" or something vague like that.

2) The coach feels a connection to the university.

There's a reason that Michigan had a real shot at getting Les Miles to leave LSU. Les is a Michigan man and he likely has a deep emotional connection to the institution. The same is true for Lane Kiffin... he was connected to USC through his experiences there, so the thought of going "back home" was something that might have appealed to him.

What connection does Kevin Sumlin have to USC? He's from Alabama and played his college ball at Purdue. He has no West Coast connections as far as I know.

3) The coach is looking for an out.

Some situations are just toxic. Scipio Tex over at Barking Carnival gave us a great example (though it might be a bit of an apples to oranges comparison) regarding Bryan Harsin leaving UT. Some situations are just bad, whether it stems from a poor relationship with an AD or getting out before you get fired like Houston Nutt at Arkansas. Sometimes leaving is just the best option. None of that fits for Kevin Sumlin.

http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/9/29/4784232/coach-kevin-sumlin-aggies-leave-usc-lane-kiffin-fired

Rey
10-03-2013, 04:36 PM
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/9/29/4784232/coach-kevin-sumlin-aggies-leave-usc-lane-kiffin-fired

Sounds like a huge homer.

If sunlin did leave this guy would be at the front of the bash bus. Probably call him a coward and say he was carried by manziel.

CretorFrigg
10-03-2013, 04:37 PM
College Station or LA area? Easy pick for me, and it's not going to be the land of cows and farms.

TheIronDuke
10-03-2013, 04:54 PM
This is hilarious that this is even a question. Of course USC is a much better head coaching job than ATM.

2012Champs
10-03-2013, 04:56 PM
Depends. We do have Kyle Allen (Rivals #1 ranked QB) coming in.
The WR corps will be even better (return of Ricky Seals Jones from medical redshirt) and the defense will have had a year to mature (plus I think we have found our ILB answer in Claiborne). There's going to be a QB dropoff for sure, but how much is the question. As long as we go 1-0 every week it's all good.




Johnny footballs dont grow on trees so the odds are A&M will have a very noticable drop off. A&M would have to make huge strides in D to offset a drop of Johnny just to stay on par imo

Hervoyel
10-03-2013, 05:08 PM
That's amusing. "Those folks are dumb and can step off". Wanted to stop reading right there. The "You disagree with me so you're dumb" point is pretty stupid in and of itself. That's just the author giving his Aggie readers a little positive reinforcement to offset their life-long inferiority complex received at the hands of decades of subservience to UT.

USC is in a class of programs that A&M will never enter. Oklahoma, UT, USC, Notre Dame, Alabama..... A&M isn't one of those teams. It's the team that those teams climb over along the way (sometimes with difficulty, A&M is a very good program.... no shame in that) to get to the National Championships they earn decade after decade.

A&M has to claim imaginary titles from the distant past to make itself feel good about even bumping shoulders with those schools. Being the head football coach at USC is a big thing whether the local Aggie fans want to admit it or not. Being the head football coach at Texas A&M isn't as a big a thing at all. It just isn't.

You get someone great to stay around for a couple of decades and win a few national championships and you'll be getting there. Hell, being the head football coach at A&M doesn't even hold a candle to being the head football coach at LSU. How could it ever compare to being the head football coach at USC?

Stemp
10-03-2013, 05:44 PM
USC is in a class of programs that A&M will never enter. Oklahoma, UT, USC, Notre Dame, Alabama..... A&M isn't one of those teams. It's the team that those teams climb over along the way (sometimes with difficulty, A&M is a very good program.... no shame in that) to get to the National Championships they earn decade after decade.

A&M has to claim imaginary titles from the distant past to make itself feel good about even bumping shoulders with those schools. Being the head football coach at USC is a big thing whether the local Aggie fans want to admit it or not. Being the head football coach at Texas A&M isn't as a big a thing at all. It just isn't.

You get someone great to stay around for a couple of decades and win a few national championships and you'll be getting there. Hell, being the head football coach at A&M doesn't even hold a candle to being the head football coach at LSU. How could it ever compare to being the head football coach at USC?

:lol:

So much buthurt and/or ignorance of the current state of affairs. A&M isn't an "elite" school but it's certainly top 10-15. ANd just because a school had success in the past doesn't mean they will continue to.

Which of those schools you mentioned are currently "elite"?

Oklahoma - recruiting is dying a slow death. Their heyday is when they were cherry picking the top talent in Texas. They've been steadily declining the past 5 years and just last year, as co-champs, got destroyed by A&M. They are not fighting for recruits against Baylor and TCU.

UT - One NC during the Mack Brown era. One. UT is mainly considered "elite" because of MONEY. They can and will likely have to money whip a coach to bring them in, especially with all the turmoil and quick turnaround the fans and boosters will expect and demand.

Notre Dame - had one great year (2012) and two good years since Lou Holtz left in 1996. Been through 4 head coaches during that time as well. Brian Kelly wasn't their first choice either.

USC - Had a great run under Pete Carroll but even that was marred by cheating and other scandals. Is currently under sanctions and the roster and recruiting is frankly a dumpster fire. Will take a lot of cash to bring in a big name head coach to try to turn around the mess. Not really a "destination job" currently, though it could be with the right coach.

Alabama - Yes, this is a legit "elite" school right now.


A&M is a hot team right now and broke fundraising records this past fiscal year. Plus, with the additional cash expected to come from the SEC Network starting in 2014, you can expect A&M to be able to match any offer short of a Texas or Ohio State.

And, like I've said, people close to Sumlin have said that he and his family loves A&M and College Station and the lifestyle there and he wants to stay awhile and build the program. He has tons of in-roads and contacts in HS in Texas and LA. And he's the best college coach for the best team in Texas playing in the best conference in the country. He may leave eventually and his agent will probably use USC to get another raise for him (deservedly). But USC isn't currently a better job for him and I'm betting he won't leave.

steelbtexan
10-03-2013, 06:10 PM
:lol:

So much buthurt and/or ignorance of the current state of affairs. A&M isn't an "elite" school but it's certainly top 10-15. ANd just because a school had success in the past doesn't mean they will continue to.

Which of those schools you mentioned are currently "elite"?

Oklahoma - recruiting is dying a slow death. Their heyday is when they were cherry picking the top talent in Texas. They've been steadily declining the past 5 years and just last year, as co-champs, got destroyed by A&M. They are not fighting for recruits against Baylor and TCU.

UT - One NC during the Mack Brown era. One. UT is mainly considered "elite" because of MONEY. They can and will likely have to money whip a coach to bring them in, especially with all the turmoil and quick turnaround the fans and boosters will expect and demand.

Notre Dame - had one great year (2012) and two good years since Lou Holtz left in 1996. Been through 4 head coaches during that time as well. Brian Kelly wasn't their first choice either.

USC - Had a great run under Pete Carroll but even that was marred by cheating and other scandals. Is currently under sanctions and the roster and recruiting is frankly a dumpster fire. Will take a lot of cash to bring in a big name head coach to try to turn around the mess. Not really a "destination job" currently, though it could be with the right coach.

Alabama - Yes, this is a legit "elite" school right now.


A&M is a hot team right now and broke fundraising records this past fiscal year. Plus, with the additional cash expected to come from the SEC Network starting in 2014, you can expect A&M to be able to match any offer short of a Texas or Ohio State.

And, like I've said, people close to Sumlin have said that he and his family loves A&M and College Station and the lifestyle there and he wants to stay awhile and build the program. He has tons of in-roads and contacts in HS in Texas and LA. And he's the best college coach for the best team in Texas playing in the best conference in the country. He may leave eventually and his agent will probably use USC to get another raise for him (deservedly). But USC isn't currently a better job for him and I'm betting he won't leave.

Homer, LOL

I agree with you.

I dont understand why Sumlin is getting all of this love. Has he ever won a confrence championship, even though when he walked on to campus 2 of the best college QB's (Keenum/Manziel) were there courtesy of being recruited by Briles/Sherman.

The1ApplePie
10-03-2013, 06:18 PM
:lol:

So much buthurt and/or ignorance of the current state of affairs. A&M isn't an "elite" school but it's certainly top 10-15. ANd just because a school had success in the past doesn't mean they will continue to.

Which of those schools you mentioned are currently "elite"?

Oklahoma - recruiting is dying a slow death. Their heyday is when they were cherry picking the top talent in Texas. They've been steadily declining the past 5 years and just last year, as co-champs, got destroyed by A&M. They are not fighting for recruits against Baylor and TCU.

UT - One NC during the Mack Brown era. One. UT is mainly considered "elite" because of MONEY. They can and will likely have to money whip a coach to bring them in, especially with all the turmoil and quick turnaround the fans and boosters will expect and demand.

Notre Dame - had one great year (2012) and two good years since Lou Holtz left in 1996. Been through 4 head coaches during that time as well. Brian Kelly wasn't their first choice either.

USC - Had a great run under Pete Carroll but even that was marred by cheating and other scandals. Is currently under sanctions and the roster and recruiting is frankly a dumpster fire. Will take a lot of cash to bring in a big name head coach to try to turn around the mess. Not really a "destination job" currently, though it could be with the right coach.

Alabama - Yes, this is a legit "elite" school right now.


A&M is a hot team right now and broke fundraising records this past fiscal year. Plus, with the additional cash expected to come from the SEC Network starting in 2014, you can expect A&M to be able to match any offer short of a Texas or Ohio State.

And, like I've said, people close to Sumlin have said that he and his family loves A&M and College Station and the lifestyle there and he wants to stay awhile and build the program. He has tons of in-roads and contacts in HS in Texas and LA. And he's the best college coach for the best team in Texas playing in the best conference in the country. He may leave eventually and his agent will probably use USC to get another raise for him (deservedly). But USC isn't currently a better job for him and I'm betting he won't leave.

Auburn sure looked elite when it had Cam Newton. How 'bout now?

USC, UT, Alabama, Ohio State... they all have multi-generational, nationwide fanbases. Even when they suck, they draw ratings and some unfairly high BCS rankings.

No one outside of Texas gave a crap about A&M until Johnny Football showed up. Do you honestly think national audiences and media will care about A&M after he leaves?

Dan B.
10-03-2013, 06:27 PM
Food for thought, Since USC's last National Championship:

2005 Texas Big XII
2006 Florida SEC
2007 LSU SEC
2008 Florida SEC
2009 Alabama SEC
2010 Auburn SEC
2011 Alabama SEC
2012 Alabama SEC

Little more food, Since A&M's last title:

2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 Louisiana State BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 Louisiana State, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS
1997 Michigan, Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/ESPN
1996 Florida AP, FWAA, NFF,USA/CNN
1995 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1994 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1993 Florida St. AP, FWAA,NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1992 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1991 Washington, Miami (Fla.) FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI,AP
1990 Colorado, Georgia Tech FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, AP, UPI
1989 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1988 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1987 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1986 Penn St. AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1982 Penn St. AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1981 Clemson AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1980 Georgia AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1979 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1978 Alabama, Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1977 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1976 Pittsburgh AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1975 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1974 Southern California, Oklahoma FWAA, NFF, UPI, AP
1973 Notre Dame, Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1972 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1971 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1970 Nebraska, Texas, Ohio St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, NFF
1969 Texas AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1968 Ohio St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1967 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1966 Notre Dame, Michigan St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, NFF
1965 Michigan St., Alabama FWAA, NFF, UPI, AP
1964 Alabama, Arkansas, Notre Dame AP, UPI, FWAA, NFF
1963 Texas AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1962 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1961 Alabama, Ohio St. AP, NFF, UPI, FWAA
1960 Minnesota, Mississippi AP, NFF, UPI, FWAA
1959 Syracuse AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1958 LSU, Iowa AP, UPI, FWAA
1957 Ohio St., Auburn FWAA, UPI, AP
1956 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, UPI
1955 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, UPI
1954 UCLA, Ohio St. FWAA, UPI, AP
1953 Maryland AP, UPI
1952 Michigan St. AP, UPI
1951 Tennessee AP, UPI
1950 Oklahoma AP, UPI
1949 Notre Dame AP
1948 Michigan AP
1947 Notre Dame AP
1946 Notre Dame AP
1945 Army AP
1944 Army AP
1943 Notre Dame AP
1942 Ohio St. AP
1941 Minnesota AP
1940 Minnesota AP

2012Champs
10-03-2013, 06:29 PM
:lol:

So much buthurt and/or ignorance of the current state of affairs. A&M isn't an "elite" school but it's certainly top 10-15. ANd just because a school had success in the past doesn't mean they will continue to.

Which of those schools you mentioned are currently "elite"?

Oklahoma - recruiting is dying a slow death. Their heyday is when they were cherry picking the top talent in Texas. They've been steadily declining the past 5 years and just last year, as co-champs, got destroyed by A&M. They are not fighting for recruits against Baylor and TCU.

UT - One NC during the Mack Brown era. One. UT is mainly considered "elite" because of MONEY. They can and will likely have to money whip a coach to bring them in, especially with all the turmoil and quick turnaround the fans and boosters will expect and demand.

Notre Dame - had one great year (2012) and two good years since Lou Holtz left in 1996. Been through 4 head coaches during that time as well. Brian Kelly wasn't their first choice either.

USC - Had a great run under Pete Carroll but even that was marred by cheating and other scandals. Is currently under sanctions and the roster and recruiting is frankly a dumpster fire. Will take a lot of cash to bring in a big name head coach to try to turn around the mess. Not really a "destination job" currently, though it could be with the right coach.

Alabama - Yes, this is a legit "elite" school right now.


A&M is a hot team right now and broke fundraising records this past fiscal year. Plus, with the additional cash expected to come from the SEC Network starting in 2014, you can expect A&M to be able to match any offer short of a Texas or Ohio State.

And, like I've said, people close to Sumlin have said that he and his family loves A&M and College Station and the lifestyle there and he wants to stay awhile and build the program. He has tons of in-roads and contacts in HS in Texas and LA. And he's the best college coach for the best team in Texas playing in the best conference in the country. He may leave eventually and his agent will probably use USC to get another raise for him (deservedly). But USC isn't currently a better job for him and I'm betting he won't leave.


I think you are greatly overvaluing your program. One or two good years doesn't put you in the top10-15

Stemp
10-03-2013, 06:31 PM
Auburn sure looked elite when it had Cam Newton. How 'bout now?

USC, UT, Alabama, Ohio State... they all have multi-generational, nationwide fanbases. Even when they suck, they draw ratings and some unfairly high BCS rankings.

No one outside of Texas gave a crap about A&M until Johnny Football showed up. Do you honestly think national audiences and media will care about A&M after he leaves?

Guess you weren't around in the late 80s and early 90s when no one gave a crap about Texas.

Alabama only recently rebuilt their national fanbase with Saban and it's national championships.
UT's fanbase is regional, even though they like the think otherwise. Case in point, difficulty getting the LHN on cable and satellite. When they finally got it on TWC, it was only within the state. There really was little to no demand outside of Texas and even that demand decreased as the football team struggled.
Ohio St, Nebraska, Notre Dame have national fanbases

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 06:32 PM
Little more food, Since A&M's last title:

2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 Louisiana State BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 Louisiana State, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS
1997 Michigan, Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/ESPN
1996 Florida AP, FWAA, NFF,USA/CNN
1995 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1994 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1993 Florida St. AP, FWAA,NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1992 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1991 Washington, Miami (Fla.) FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI,AP
1990 Colorado, Georgia Tech FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, AP, UPI
1989 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1988 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1987 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1986 Penn St. AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1982 Penn St. AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1981 Clemson AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1980 Georgia AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1979 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1978 Alabama, Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1977 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1976 Pittsburgh AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1975 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1974 Southern California, Oklahoma FWAA, NFF, UPI, AP
1973 Notre Dame, Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1972 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1971 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1970 Nebraska, Texas, Ohio St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, NFF
1969 Texas AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1968 Ohio St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1967 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1966 Notre Dame, Michigan St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, NFF
1965 Michigan St., Alabama FWAA, NFF, UPI, AP
1964 Alabama, Arkansas, Notre Dame AP, UPI, FWAA, NFF
1963 Texas AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1962 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1961 Alabama, Ohio St. AP, NFF, UPI, FWAA
1960 Minnesota, Mississippi AP, NFF, UPI, FWAA
1959 Syracuse AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1958 LSU, Iowa AP, UPI, FWAA
1957 Ohio St., Auburn FWAA, UPI, AP
1956 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, UPI
1955 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, UPI
1954 UCLA, Ohio St. FWAA, UPI, AP
1953 Maryland AP, UPI
1952 Michigan St. AP, UPI
1951 Tennessee AP, UPI
1950 Oklahoma AP, UPI
1949 Notre Dame AP
1948 Michigan AP
1947 Notre Dame AP
1946 Notre Dame AP
1945 Army AP
1944 Army AP
1943 Notre Dame AP
1942 Ohio St. AP
1941 Minnesota AP
1940 Minnesota AP

So if a natty is the litmus test for being elite, A&M isn't elite, and USC hasn't been elite for almost a decade, and before then almost since the mid 70s.

Sumlin is in a better position here. I can buy the LA vs. College Station city argument, because that's viable (though he has kids and a wife, and apparently they love living in College Station). I can buy the money argument, though A&M will match and beat whatever USC throws their way. We're not a poor school. All people here can argue is by throwing out vague buzzwords like "elite" and "prestige" but when it comes to solid, tangible arguments they fall short.

Obvious homer alert. I get the feeling there's an awful lot of bitter UH fans projecting here.

Stemp
10-03-2013, 06:34 PM
I think you are greatly overvaluing your program. One or two good years doesn't put you in the top10-15

I think people are undervaluing A&M because it had some down years with 2 bad coaching hires. Plus, the value was raised greatly when it became the only SEC school in Texas.

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 06:36 PM
Johnny footballs dont grow on trees so the odds are A&M will have a very noticable drop off. A&M would have to make huge strides in D to offset a drop of Johnny just to stay on par imo

I'm not sure the drop-off will be that gigantic. Will A&M's offense put up monster numbers like before? Probably not. However, I think that Sumlin's system is getting less credit than it should here. No, the next guy will not nearly be as effective as Johnny Manziel but the D will make strides. This is a young defense and Snyder is moving pieces around to find the fit he wants. When it clicks it will be much better than the poor showings we have seen to date. This season is a baptism by fire for the young guys on the D.

Edit: At the end of the day, we all know that Sumlin is going to milk this for all its worth for a pay raise with Texas A&M, but he isn't leaving. The only ones who want him to are USC fans and UH fans who need A&M to taste what they got in order to feel better about themselves.

Stemp
10-03-2013, 06:40 PM
I'm not sure the drop-off will be that gigantic. Will A&M's offense put up monster numbers like before? Probably not. However, I think that Sumlin's system is getting less credit than it should here. No, the next guy will not nearly be as effective as Johnny Manziel but the D will make strides. This is a young defense and Snyder is moving pieces around to find the fit he wants. When it clicks it will be much better than the poor showings we have seen to date. This season is a baptism by fire for the young guys on the D.

Edit: At the end of the day, we all know that Sumlin is going to milk this for all its worth for a pay raise with Texas A&M, but he isn't leaving. The only ones who want him to are USC fans and UH fans who need A&M to taste what they got in order to feel better about themselves.

And UT fans who are begging for A&M to fail.

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 06:48 PM
And UT fans who are begging for A&M to fail.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5b2bt4McG1qhwm7oo1_500.gif

Insideop
10-03-2013, 06:55 PM
That's amusing. "Those folks are dumb and can step off". Wanted to stop reading right there. The "You disagree with me so you're dumb" point is pretty stupid in and of itself. That's just the author giving his Aggie readers a little positive reinforcement to offset their life-long inferiority complex received at the hands of decades of subservience to UT.

USC is in a class of programs that A&M will never enter. Oklahoma, UT, USC, Notre Dame, Alabama..... A&M isn't one of those teams. It's the team that those teams climb over along the way (sometimes with difficulty, A&M is a very good program.... no shame in that) to get to the National Championships they earn decade after decade.

A&M has to claim imaginary titles from the distant past to make itself feel good about even bumping shoulders with those schools. Being the head football coach at USC is a big thing whether the local Aggie fans want to admit it or not. Being the head football coach at Texas A&M isn't as a big a thing at all. It just isn't.

You get someone great to stay around for a couple of decades and win a few national championships and you'll be getting there. Hell, being the head football coach at A&M doesn't even hold a candle to being the head football coach at LSU. How could it ever compare to being the head football coach at USC?

Herv, it seems you, and others on here, are basing your opinions of A&M's football program from what you've seen in the past. And yes, that program could "never" be in the same class with the others that you mention. But, A&M (the university and the football program) has been growing and changing since the 60's probably more than any other university in the US. It's gone from an all male military school of about 5000 or so, to now being a major coed university with about 45,000 students. It's not the same old A&M.

The football program has been evolving along with the school. And, with the move in to the SEC, the new/expanded stadium (3rd largest in college football when complete), second to none training facilities, and money coming in now in record amounts (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/) A&M is now in the same class with the other schools you mentioned. Yes, they don't have all the Football NC's (1 legit NC in 1939) the others have, but they're coming. It's just a matter of time. :)

Is being the HC at USC a big thing? Yes. Is it bigger than being the HC at A&M? 5 to 10 years ago I would have said yes without question. Now, with everything that's happened over the last 2 years, I can't say that anymore. A&M has put itself in position to be a football power. If you can't see that then we can agree to disagree.

2012Champs
10-03-2013, 07:38 PM
I think people are undervaluing A&M because it had some down years with 2 bad coaching hires. Plus, the value was raised greatly when it became the only SEC school in Texas.

Maybe some are undervaluing but that can happen at the same time you are overvaluing the program

2012Champs
10-03-2013, 07:38 PM
I'm not sure the drop-off will be that gigantic. Will A&M's offense put up monster numbers like before? Probably not. However, I think that Sumlin's system is getting less credit than it should here. No, the next guy will not nearly be as effective as Johnny Manziel but the D will make strides. This is a young defense and Snyder is moving pieces around to find the fit he wants. When it clicks it will be much better than the poor showings we have seen to date. This season is a baptism by fire for the young guys on the D.

Edit: At the end of the day, we all know that Sumlin is going to milk this for all its worth for a pay raise with Texas A&M, but he isn't leaving. The only ones who want him to are USC fans and UH fans who need A&M to taste what they got in order to feel better about themselves.



We will see how next year goes

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 08:13 PM
We will see how next year goes

That's all that can be said at this point, I fully agree. Too many factors to predict anything with any certainty. I'm excited for my school, though.

htownfan32
10-03-2013, 08:30 PM
And on the bright side, if Sumlin leaves and Chip Kelly tanks, we can always sign Kelly :D

Hervoyel
10-03-2013, 09:28 PM
Guess you weren't around in the late 80s and early 90s when no one gave a crap about Texas.

Alabama only recently rebuilt their national fanbase with Saban and it's national championships.
UT's fanbase is regional, even though they like the think otherwise. Case in point, difficulty getting the LHN on cable and satellite. When they finally got it on TWC, it was only within the state. There really was little to no demand outside of Texas and even that demand decreased as the football team struggled.
Ohio St, Nebraska, Notre Dame have national fanbases

See, now that's where your ignorance is showing. Even when they're down people give a crap about Texas and when that happens there's an enormous and focused will to bring them back.

When A&M is down no gives a crap about A&M. That must be where you're getting this idea that the same thing applies to the elite schools. It doesn't.

You actually think Alabama "only recently rebuilt their national fanbase with Saban"? That's laughable. Their national fanbase doesn't go away.

pbat488
10-03-2013, 11:29 PM
some of these posts are laughable; so much misinformation and butthurt.

prestige-wise, USC is the better job. but if you take off the blinders and look what is actually going on beneath the surface, one can see that as it stands currently A&M is in a better position for success; playing in the best conference in college football, extensive facility upgrades that exceed even the "elite" programs, no ncaa sanctions to work under, and being the top draw for recruits in a football crazed state. come back in a few years and if A&M keeps winning, the prestige argument will be up for debate.

steelbtexan
10-04-2013, 12:20 AM
I think people are undervaluing A&M because it had some down years with 2 bad coaching hires. Plus, the value was raised greatly when it became the only SEC school in Texas.

It'sw had down yrs since Jackie Sherrill left.

Manziel is the only reason the Ags are relevant.

Tell me when is the last time the ags won a NC? Finished in the top 5? I dont remember where they finished last yr, but the Manziel point still stands.

Sumlin will always be an upwardly mobile HC. Del Rio will get the USC HC job, so dont worry Aggie fans Sumlin will be at A&M next yr with a fat raise.

steelbtexan
10-04-2013, 12:25 AM
some of these posts are laughable; so much misinformation and butthurt.

prestige-wise, USC is the better job. but if you take off the blinders and look what is actually going on beneath the surface, one can see that as it stands currently A&M is in a better position for success; playing in the best conference in college football, extensive facility upgrades that exceed even the "elite" programs, no ncaa sanctions to work under, and being the top draw for recruits in a football crazed state. come back in a few years and if A&M keeps winning, the prestige argument will be up for debate.

2 bits 4 bits 6 bits a dollar Rah Rah Rah go Ags

A century of football says otherwise.

Have you objectively looked at your defense? When has Sumlin ever had an avg defense?

steelbtexan
10-04-2013, 12:32 AM
See, now that's where your ignorance is showing. Even when they're down people give a crap about Texas and when that happens there's an enormous and focused will to bring them back.

When A&M is down no gives a crap about A&M. That must be where you're getting this idea that the same thing applies to the elite schools. It doesn't.

You actually think Alabama "only recently rebuilt their national fanbase with Saban"? That's laughable. Their national fanbase doesn't go away.

Yep

Alabama fans from 6 to 90 are some of the most passionate fans I've ever seen. I went to watch the A&M/Alabama game at a bar & grill and there were a bunch of 50 plus Alabama women fans that were alot of fun. So were their daughters.

Very friendly knowledgeable football fans.

htownfan32
10-04-2013, 01:04 AM
2 bits 4 bits 6 bits a dollar Rah Rah Rah go Ags

A century of football says otherwise.

Have you objectively looked at your defense? When has Sumlin ever had an avg defense?

SteelB, he's talking about right now, not a century of football before. Also, let's be real and talk about A&M after it transitioned from a military college to a more conventional university.

The defense has the quality in terms of recruits. Right now it is young. It will improve by next year. We've got young guys out there - Darrian Claiborne (who looks like the answer at ILB), Isaiah Golden, Devante Harris.

They have all the talent to make the jump to at least a decent defense, it's up to Snyder to use that talent. They play bad now, but talent + experience should result in improvement next year.

As far as the future is concerned:

Rivals has A&M's 2014 recruiting class (for now) ranked at 13, USC is at 63. It doesn't matter if it's Manziel or whatever - relevancy brings recruits, and recruits set up success for years to come.

Insideop
10-04-2013, 09:25 AM
SteelB, he's talking about right now, not a century of football before. Also, let's be real and talk about A&M after it transitioned from a military college to a more conventional university.

The defense has the quality in terms of recruits. Right now it is young. It will improve by next year. We've got young guys out there - Darrian Claiborne (who looks like the answer at ILB), Isaiah Golden, Devante Harris.

They have all the talent to make the jump to at least a decent defense, it's up to Snyder to use that talent. They play bad now, but talent + experience should result in improvement next year.

As far as the future is concerned:

Rivals has A&M's 2014 recruiting class (for now) ranked at 13, USC is at 63. It doesn't matter if it's Manziel or whatever - relevancy brings recruits, and recruits set up success for years to come.

While this is true in most cases there are some exceptions. Texas, under Brown, has, until this last recruiting class, had a top 10 or top 5 class, but he's done little with all that top talent (1 NC). Mack is a great recruiter but not so great coach. I think most of the team's problems stem from a lack of discipline, but that's just a guess. Basically, it takes the right coach with the top recruits to get good and stay good like Sabin at Alabama.

Texan_Bill
10-04-2013, 09:45 AM
Little more food, Since A&M's last title:

2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 Louisiana State BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 Louisiana State, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS
1997 Michigan, Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/ESPN
1996 Florida AP, FWAA, NFF,USA/CNN
1995 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1994 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1993 Florida St. AP, FWAA,NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1992 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1991 Washington, Miami (Fla.) FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI,AP
1990 Colorado, Georgia Tech FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, AP, UPI
1989 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1988 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1987 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1986 Penn St. AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1982 Penn St. AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1981 Clemson AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1980 Georgia AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1979 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1978 Alabama, Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1977 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1976 Pittsburgh AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1975 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1974 Southern California, Oklahoma FWAA, NFF, UPI, AP
1973 Notre Dame, Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1972 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1971 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1970 Nebraska, Texas, Ohio St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, NFF
1969 Texas AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1968 Ohio St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1967 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1966 Notre Dame, Michigan St. AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, NFF
1965 Michigan St., Alabama FWAA, NFF, UPI, AP
1964 Alabama, Arkansas, Notre Dame AP, UPI, FWAA, NFF
1963 Texas AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1962 Southern California AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1961 Alabama, Ohio St. AP, NFF, UPI, FWAA
1960 Minnesota, Mississippi AP, NFF, UPI, FWAA
1959 Syracuse AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1958 LSU, Iowa AP, UPI, FWAA
1957 Ohio St., Auburn FWAA, UPI, AP
1956 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, UPI
1955 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, UPI
1954 UCLA, Ohio St. FWAA, UPI, AP
1953 Maryland AP, UPI
1952 Michigan St. AP, UPI
1951 Tennessee AP, UPI
1950 Oklahoma AP, UPI
1949 Notre Dame AP
1948 Michigan AP
1947 Notre Dame AP
1946 Notre Dame AP
1945 Army AP
1944 Army AP
1943 Notre Dame AP
1942 Ohio St. AP
1941 Minnesota AP
1940 Minnesota AP

:mcnugget: Nice job Dan and totally off the the point I was making which was SEC v. The PAC whatever

Texan_Bill
10-04-2013, 09:49 AM
See, now that's where your ignorance is showing. Even when they're down people give a crap about Texas and when that happens there's an enormous and focused will to bring them back.

When A&M is down no gives a crap about A&M. That must be where you're getting this idea that the same thing applies to the elite schools. It doesn't.

You actually think Alabama "only recently rebuilt their national fanbase with Saban"? That's laughable. Their national fanbase doesn't go away.

People only pay attention to TU because they get bullshyte calls at the goal line preventing lowly Iowa State from kicking their ass.

2012Champs
10-04-2013, 12:03 PM
Honda vs Mercedes Benz

a&m vs USC


Honda may very well be better made and more reliable but it's not a Benz

WolverineFan
10-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Historically speaking, A&M doesn't even compare to USC. The only reason it's even a question right now is because of what Sumlin has already done at A&M and how badly Kiffin tanked USC.

3 years ago it's not even a question that he goes to USC. However, because of the situation both schools are in, it's not crazy for him to stay. He's established a huge base at A&M very quickly.

Mr teX
10-04-2013, 12:45 PM
whys sumlin even considering this? seems like tamu is on par with usc. anyone know what tamu pays sumlin? didnt he just build a huge house?

Not even close....

recruiting for USC >> TAMU

Money at USC > TAMU

Natl title aspirations for USC >>>> TAMU....as long as Saban is in Bama anyway.

Program prestige at USC >>>>>>> TAMU

Living in LA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> living in college station

for what it's worth though, i hope he stays....

htownfan32
10-04-2013, 12:51 PM
Not even close....

recruiting for USC >> TAMU

Money at USC > TAMU

Natl title aspirations for USC >>>> TAMU....as long as Saban is in Bama anyway.

Program prestige at USC >>>>>>> TAMU

Living in LA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> living in college station

for what it's worth though, i hope he stays....

I already addressed the first point earlier. Take a look at their recruiting classes.

As for money, if you think A&M can't throw more money at Sumlin than USC, you're wrong.

WolverineFan
10-04-2013, 12:57 PM
I already addressed the first point earlier. Take a look at their recruiting classes.

As for money, if you think A&M can't throw more money at Sumlin than USC, you're wrong.

USC recruits itself. They signed 8 blue-chip recruits the last 2 years while under sanctions. A&M has signed 1 blue-chip in the same time frame.

USC's recruiting is down this year because of Lane Kiffin's implosion. Already, since his firing, top recruits on the west coast are interested in USC again. If Sumlin were at USC, he would bring in top 3 classes every single year.

And A&M can throw a ton of money at Sumlin, but you're fooling yourself if you think USC can't outbid them.

Mr teX
10-04-2013, 01:14 PM
I already addressed the first point earlier. Take a look at their recruiting classes.

As for money, if you think A&M can't throw more money at Sumlin than USC, you're wrong.

Sumlin's system is basically 7 on 7...& With the explosion of 7 on 7 all over the nation...getting decent to top recruits to want to play in that kind of system won't be a problem...especially out there. Apart from that... valuing recruiting classes has become largely overated & highly inaccurate over the years. You simply don't know what you have until the kid steps on campus...beefs up & then onto the field ....Manziel was a 3 star recruit coming out....not really on anyone's radar...you know the rest. I say all that to say it'll be easy to find guys to play in Sumlin's system whether he has a top recruiting class or not.

As far as A&M throwing money at him...sure they could...but that's really all they can do....As a UofH grad, we heard the same thing about his family loving Houston....apparently, they didn't love it too much though.

if the money is relatively even....A&M will loses every time.

TexansSeminole
10-04-2013, 01:35 PM
Lol, no way is recruiting an answer. Texas A&M is killing it in recruiting, if you haven't looked lately. He built a house here and A&M can probably match him for money. He might milk this for a bigger contract, I guess.

As bong said, the easiness of the Pac-12 is a possible attracting factor.

They aren't killing it in recruiting compared to what can be accomplished at USC.

A&M was ranked #15 in 2012, #11 in 2013, and are currently #14 for 2014. That's according to rivals.

When a coach produces at USC, they get top 3 recruiting classes EVERY year. There is a huge difference between #10 and #3 class rank in recruiting.

b0ng
10-04-2013, 01:36 PM
I think the recruiting angle is fairly negligible honestly. While USC might be looked on more favorably than A&M by the national population, there are a **** ton of talented kids coming out of Texas H.S. Football programs, especially QB's. USC might be easier to recruit a talented defense due to it's "linebacker U" label, but a coach like Sumlin probably gets his choice of QB's, WR's and O-linemen.

He can more than likely dig up the kind of recruits that he would need to compete in the SEC, and his schemes seem really good at putting up gaudy numbers. Right now, Sumlin is either some kind of offensive mastermind, or he's gotten extremely lucky in who he took over for and what they already had on the roster. I'm leaning towards the former since he did it with UH and with TAMU.

TexansSeminole
10-04-2013, 01:40 PM
USC recruits itself. They signed 8 blue-chip recruits the last 2 years while under sanctions. A&M has signed 1 blue-chip in the same time frame.

USC's recruiting is down this year because of Lane Kiffin's implosion. Already, since his firing, top recruits on the west coast are interested in USC again. If Sumlin were at USC, he would bring in top 3 classes every single year.

And A&M can throw a ton of money at Sumlin, but you're fooling yourself if you think USC can't outbid them.

Didn't see this, you basically said the same thing I just posted.

California has an equal amount of top players than does Texas and USC gets their pick of them when they are producing. They also pull recruits from all over the nation, even from Florida.

thunderkyss
10-04-2013, 01:57 PM
If we were to go to San Diego & ask 100 people if they knew the name of the last two Texas A&M head coaches were, how many do you think would answer with 1 correct name?

If we were to go to Houston & ask 100 people if they knew the name of the last two USC coaches, how many do you think would answer with 1 correct name?

If you were to ask 1,000 people in San Francisco to name 2 people that ever QB'd for A&M, how many would come up with a correct name?

If you were to ask 1,000 people in San Antonio to name 2 people that ever QB'd for USC, how many would come up with a correct name?

True enough, A&M is closer to a National Title than USC, but as soon as those sanction measures are done, USC will be back on top again.

Dan B.
10-04-2013, 01:59 PM
:mcnugget: Nice job Dan and totally off the the point I was making which was SEC v. The PAC whatever

So your point was that A&M is more relevant because the SEC wins titles? So are Ole Miss and Vanderbilt more high profile too?

Stemp
10-04-2013, 02:16 PM
They aren't killing it in recruiting compared to what can be accomplished at USC.

A&M was ranked #15 in 2012, #11 in 2013, and are currently #14 for 2014. That's according to rivals.

When a coach produces at USC, they get top 3 recruiting classes EVERY year. There is a huge difference between #10 and #3 class rank in recruiting.

Especially when he's letting agents and runners pay his players.

And recruiting rankings don't necessarily translate to wins on the field.
Oregon hasn't been higher than #9 yet they still manage to win.
Texas has been top 5-8 and the past several years based on average stars yet the have tanked.

TexansSeminole
10-04-2013, 02:21 PM
Especially when he's letting agents and runners pay his players.

And recruiting rankings don't necessarily translate to wins on the field. Ask any Texas fans who follows their recruiting.

So, what are you saying? That attaining more talented players has nothing to do with success?

Alabama has been in the top 3 in recruiting for how long now? Their depth is apparent when you watch them play.

Look at what Carroll had at USC, top recruiting classes with great coaching. When you pair several top 3 recruiting classes with great coaching, you often get a dominate football team. That is what Sumlin stands to achieve at USC.

Stemp
10-04-2013, 02:22 PM
So, what are you saying? That attaining more talented players has nothing to do with success?

It's not the only factor in success, and not the most important factor. There are tons of examples of highly rated guys who are busts and many examples of guys who weren't highly ranked and became great and superstar players.

A good coach that can spot and develop talent is more valuable than a coach who can convince a highly ranked recruit to come and then let's that player's talent atrophy in their system.

TexansSeminole
10-04-2013, 02:27 PM
It's not the only factor in success, and not the most important factor. There are tons of examples of highly rated guys who are busts and many examples of guys who weren't highly ranked and became great and superstar players.

A good coach that can spot and develop talent is more valuable than a coach who can convince a highly ranked recruit to come and then let's that player's talent atrophy in their system.

That's why the top 3 classes are better than the #10 class. You get tons of top recruits and you don't lean heavily on one player. You end up with 2 or 3 top players at each position and they battle it out for the position. A great coach that can develop top talent is better than a great coach that can develop good talent.

The coaching and talent development would be the same in both situations, I'm not sure I understand what you are arguing.

Stemp
10-04-2013, 02:33 PM
That's why the top 3 classes are better than the #10 class. You get tons of top recruits and you don't lean heavily on one player. You end up with 2 or 3 top players at each position and they battle it out for the position. A great coach that can develop top talent is better than a great coach that can develop good talent.

The coaching and talent development would be the same in both situations, I'm not sure I understand what you are arguing.

Other than Nick Saban, name a coach who consistently brings in top 3 recruiting classes and develops his players?

The guys who can develop talent often don't get the highest ranked classes because they get players who may not be as highly ranked by the "recruiting gurus" who set the rankings. Mack Brown is notorious for bringing in highly ranked classes and then riding their talent without developing them further.

So my point is, just because a team gets a highly ranked class doesn't mean they will win. And just because a team only is top 10 rather than top 5 doesn't mean that when it all shakes out, that that recruiting class isn't better than the ones ranked above them.

Recruiting classes are suspect anyways because they are subjective and based on potential not results, much like the NFL draft.

htownfan32
10-04-2013, 02:48 PM
Lol @ USC outbidding Texas A&M

Do you really think after dropping half a billion on our stadium we're going to let another school outbid us for Sumlin?
This school is aiming for the stars, both academically and in athletics. There is aggressive expansion going on in College Station the likes of which has perhaps never been seen. Whether we get there or not is up for debate, but the whole "you never will" shtick is getting real old.

htownfan32
10-04-2013, 02:54 PM
If we were to go to San Diego & ask 100 people if they knew the name of the last two Texas A&M head coaches were, how many do you think would answer with 1 correct name?

If we were to go to Houston & ask 100 people if they knew the name of the last two USC coaches, how many do you think would answer with 1 correct name?

If you were to ask 1,000 people in San Francisco to name 2 people that ever QB'd for A&M, how many would come up with a correct name?

If you were to ask 1,000 people in San Antonio to name 2 people that ever QB'd for USC, how many would come up with a correct name?

True enough, A&M is closer to a National Title than USC, but as soon as those sanction measures are done, USC will be back on top again.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure anyone who watches football could say "Johnny Manziel and Ryan Tannehill" nowadays.

The talent that A&M puts out on the NFL level also draws attention to the college program itself. If A&M starts putting out more quality NFL talent (and by the looks of things, A&M is going to make a name for itself as O-Line University) it will become more and more relevant.

Mr teX
10-04-2013, 03:06 PM
Lol @ USC outbidding Texas A&M

Do you really think after dropping half a billion on our stadium we're going to let another school outbid us for Sumlin?
This school is aiming for the stars, both academically and in athletics. There is aggressive expansion going on in College Station the likes of which has perhaps never been seen. Whether we get there or not is up for debate, but the whole "you never will" shtick is getting real old.

well, outbid & outbid by a mile is exactly what you'd have to do to win vs a school of USC's caliber b/c you don't offer anything else. but if the bids are comparable in any way, you'll lose pretty much every time when you're up against 1 of the banner programs in the nation.

Rey
10-04-2013, 03:30 PM
I honestly don't know how anyone puts A&M and USC on the same level as far as coaching jobs go. USC is much better and it's not even close.

TexansSeminole
10-04-2013, 03:43 PM
Other than Nick Saban, name a coach who consistently brings in top 3 recruiting classes and develops his players?

The guys who can develop talent often don't get the highest ranked classes because they get players who may not be as highly ranked by the "recruiting gurus" who set the rankings. Mack Brown is notorious for bringing in highly ranked classes and then riding their talent without developing them further.

So my point is, just because a team gets a highly ranked class doesn't mean they will win. And just because a team only is top 10 rather than top 5 doesn't mean that when it all shakes out, that that recruiting class isn't better than the ones ranked above them.

Recruiting classes are suspect anyways because they are subjective and based on potential not results, much like the NFL draft.

Pete used to do it at USC. He developed players for the NFL routinely. Jimbo fisher at Florida State has had several top 3 recruiting classes and has developed them very well, having the most players drafted last year. Urban Meyer did it at Florida, remember that run of dominance?

That's just off the top of my head. What you are missing in your Mack Brown argument is that Mack Brown is not a great coach. He is having a hard enough time picking his assistants.

Winning championships is often about the QB of the team and if they can produce in big games. However, when you have top 3 recruiting classes routinely and great coaching, you always have a shot. A better shot than a team with the #12 recruiting class and great coaching.

Top recruiting classes are more about quantity of blue chip players than one great recruit.

Lol @ USC outbidding Texas A&M

Do you really think after dropping half a billion on our stadium we're going to let another school outbid us for Sumlin?
This school is aiming for the stars, both academically and in athletics. There is aggressive expansion going on in College Station the likes of which has perhaps never been seen. Whether we get there or not is up for debate, but the whole "you never will" shtick is getting real old.

Who is saying that A&M never will reach that level? The point being made is that a great coach has a better opportunity for championships and a better team at USC than at A&M.

I have no problem admitting that USC is a better coaching job than Florida State.

htownfan32
10-04-2013, 03:49 PM
Pete used to do it at USC. He developed players for the NFL routinely. Jimbo fisher at Florida State has had several top 3 recruiting classes and has developed them very well, having the most players drafted last year. Urban Meyer did it at Florida, remember that run of dominance?

That's just off the top of my head.

Winning championships is often about the QB of the team and if they can produce in big games. However, when you have top 3 recruiting classes routinely and great coaching, you always have a shot. A better shot than a team with the #12 recruiting class and great coaching.

Top recruiting classes are more about quantity of blue chip players than one great recruit.



Who is saying that A&M never will reach that level? The point being made is that a great coach has a better opportunity for championships and a better team at USC than at A&M.

There's quite a few posters on here who seem to think "elite" is a never-changing cadre of schools.

Rey
10-04-2013, 04:01 PM
There's quite a few posters on here who seem to think "elite" is a never-changing cadre of schools.

I don't think you understand the time frame.

Notredame hasn't don't much in terms of championship winning in quite a while. They are still regarded as one if those schools that is a great coaching job.

UT is another one of those schools. USC is one as well.

Tamu isn't a bad job. It's just not on the same level as those schools and it would likely take a very, very, very long time to surpas or match those schools.

htownfan32
10-04-2013, 04:08 PM
I don't think you understand the time frame.

Notredame hasn't don't much in terms of championship winning in quite a while. They are still regarded as one if those schools that is a great coaching job.

UT is another one of those schools. USC is one as well.

Tamu isn't a bad job. It's just not on the same level as those schools and it would likely take a very, very, very long time to surpas or match those schools.

I understand your point, as it's a valid one. However, I differentiate between "elite" in terms of results and "prestige" in terms of what you are talking about - the draw of the coaching job itself. I am not saying A&M is elite, but consistency of excellence will make them elite.

Sumlin is set up here, and he's set up much better than he was in Houston. He's got the conference, the recruiting, the new stadium, and the wholehearted faith of the athletics department here. If prestige is an all important thing to Sumlin, he'll leave. If having things the way he wants it, set up to how he likes... I don't think so.

Dan B.
10-05-2013, 01:07 AM
It's not that the list of elite schools never changes. It's just that it takes more than one year to join the club. Oregon is a perfect example. They weren't an elite school just because they went to the Rose Bowl once in 95. It took years of sustained success, along with a significant investment in their program, for them to be considered a top level job. Even today some would say that USC or UCLA are bigger jobs than Oregon*.

Some Arkansas fans claimed elite status because they had an 11-2 season where they finished fifth in the country (third in the SEC West) and won the Cotton two years ago. Oops. Things change kind of quickly in college football.

*: I disagree for the record. I think Oregon is one of the best gigs a coach can get. You don't have anywhere near the level of demands you'd have at another school. You have a virtually unlimited budget and you only have to make one guy happy -- Phil Knight. No spoiled fans expecting another natty. No group of multimillionaire alums expecting to get front row seats to every team dinner.

TexansSeminole
10-05-2013, 06:30 AM
It's not that the list of elite schools never changes. It's just that it takes more than one year to join the club. Oregon is a perfect example. They weren't an elite school just because they went to the Rose Bowl once in 95. It took years of sustained success, along with a significant investment in their program, for them to be considered a top level job. Even today some would say that USC or UCLA are bigger jobs than Oregon*.

Some Arkansas fans claimed elite status because they had an 11-2 season where they finished fifth in the country (third in the SEC West) and won the Cotton two years ago. Oops. Things change kind of quickly in college football.

*: I disagree for the record. I think Oregon is one of the best gigs a coach can get. You don't have anywhere near the level of demands you'd have at another school. You have a virtually unlimited budget and you only have to make one guy happy -- Phil Knight. No spoiled fans expecting another natty. No group of multimillionaire alums expecting to get front row seats to every team dinner.

Florida State had one of the most successful runs ever in college football and I still see USC as a better job and program. Texas and Alabama are too. FSU is in the club, but it's just not on their level. I don't think A&M is really even close to that club right now. Just being in a conference isn't good enough. You have to win multiple conference championships and probably a few national championships before you can think about joining that group.

The1ApplePie
10-07-2013, 09:49 AM
There's quite a few posters on here who seem to think "elite" is a never-changing cadre of schools.

It is pretty much the same teams at the top every year. The only one that has really joined them in my lifetime is The U, which has since fallen back into being average.

You get the occasional team that wins a National Title thanks to a freakish player (Cam with Auburn is the latest example)

A&M probably has the same ceiling the Oregon does. Great offense and a chance to be in the hunt every year, but probably not enough to make it over the top.

If Manziel stayed around and became A&M's Tim Tebow, they may have a shot a gaining ground.

steelbtexan
10-07-2013, 12:19 PM
A&M fans feeling a bit insecure? Nah, never.

If DelRio doesn't get the USC job and the Trojans come calling Sumlin, he's GONE.

Sorry A&M fans but living in LA is incomparable to living in the greater Bryan-College Station area. Not many/any Heisman Trophy winners willingly sign up to attend A&M. They signup to live in LA and attend USCquite regularly. (See, Bush/Lienhart/Palmer/White/Bell/Allen etc...)

Ranger Tom
10-08-2013, 03:57 PM
Sorry A&M fans but living in LA is incomparable to living in the greater Bryan-College Station area. Not many/any Heisman Trophy winners willingly sign up to attend A&M. They signup to live in LA and attend USCquite regularly. (See, Bush/Lienhart/Palmer/White/Bell/Allen etc...)

I don't understand this statement. How often do Heisman trophy winners transfer to new schools AFTER getting the award? Because that's the only way they can be called "Heisman trophy winners."

Stemp
10-08-2013, 05:54 PM
A&M fans feeling a bit insecure? Nah, never.

If DelRio doesn't get the USC job and the Trojans come calling Sumlin, he's GONE.

Sorry A&M fans but living in LA is incomparable to living in the greater Bryan-College Station area. Not many/any Heisman Trophy winners willingly sign up to attend A&M. They signup to live in LA and attend USCquite regularly. (See, Bush/Lienhart/Palmer/White/Bell/Allen etc...)

That is just stupid.
Below are the winners since 1994 who came from schools in cities with population of less than 1M people

Of those, 10 came from schools whose cities have less than 200,000 people
Only the winners in 2002, 2004 and 2005 came from a metro city (all LA).

So 3 our of 19. Not exactly a large percentage and certainly nowhere near a majority.

1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado Boulder, CO pop. 101,000
1995 Eddie George Ohio State Columbus, OH pop 809,000
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida Gainsville, FL pop 126,000
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan Ann Arbor, MI pop 116,000
1998 Ricky Williams Texas Austin, TX pop 842,000
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin Madison, WI pop 240,000
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State Tallahasee, FL pop 186,000
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska Lincoln, NE pop 265,000
2003 Jason White Oklahoma Norman, OK pop 115,000
2006 Troy Smith Ohio State QB Columbus, OH pop 809,000
2007 Tim Tebow Florida Gainsville, FL pop 126,000
2008 Sam Bradford Oklahoma Norman, OK pop 115,000
2009 Mark Ingram Alabama Birminham, AL pop 212,000
2010 Cam Newton Auburn Auburn, AL pop 57,000
2011 Robert Griffin III Baylor University Waco, TX pop 127,000
2012 Johnny Manziel Texas A&M Bryan/College Station, TX pop 178,000

htownfan32
10-08-2013, 05:58 PM
That is just stupid.
Below are the winners since 1994 who came from schools in cities with population of less than 1M people

Of those, 10 came from schools whose cities have less than 200,000 people

1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado Boulder, CO pop. 101,000
1995 Eddie George Ohio State Columbus, OH pop 809,000
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida Gainsville, FL pop 126,000
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan Ann Arbor, MI pop 116,000
1998 Ricky Williams Texas Austin, TX pop 842,000
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin Madison, WI pop 240,000
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State Tallahasee, FL pop 186,000
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska Lincoln, NE pop 265,000
2003 Jason White Oklahoma Norman, OK pop 115,000
2006 Troy Smith Ohio State QB Columbus, OH pop 809,000
2007 Tim Tebow Florida Gainsville, FL pop 126,000
2008 Sam Bradford Oklahoma Norman, OK pop 115,000
2009 Mark Ingram Alabama Birminham, AL pop 212,000
2010 Cam Newton Auburn Auburn, AL pop 57,000
2011 Robert Griffin III Baylor University Waco, TX pop 127,000
2012 Johnny Manziel Texas A&M Bryan/College Station, TX pop 178,000

Stop, too many facts :(

Let's be real, if you go to A&M it is no big deal to go party in Austin or Houston on the weekends, if that's what's drawing football players.

TexansSeminole
10-09-2013, 01:43 PM
It's not all about partying. Living in Southern California > living in Bryan, Texas in almost every possible way.

Stemp
10-09-2013, 01:55 PM
It's not all about partying. Living in Southern California > living in Bryan, Texas in almost every possible way.

Except that the locations of many BCS universities, including several long time winning programs, are more like Bryan/College Station than LA.

2012Champs
10-09-2013, 02:16 PM
Except that the locations of many BCS universities, including several long time winning programs, are more like Bryan/College Station than LA.


Well that really has nothing to do with the point he was making

TexansSeminole
10-09-2013, 02:18 PM
Except that the locations of many BCS universities, including several long time winning programs, are more like Bryan/College Station than LA.

I don't disagree, just giving another advantage that USC has over those programs if they're drawn to the climate, lifestyle, etc of a Southern California.

I love Florida State, but if I had my choice as a recruit, I would pick USC for exactly that reason. I doubt I am alone.

Stemp
10-09-2013, 02:20 PM
Well that really has nothing to do with the point he was making

The point was people think you can't get as good talent to come to a&m because BCS is a small town and LA is LA. But many schools exist in small towns like BCS and they attract as good or better talent than USC.

So myth BUSTED

TexansSeminole
10-09-2013, 02:28 PM
The point was people think you can't get as good talent to come to a&m because BCS is a small town and LA is LA. But many schools exist in small towns like BCS and they attract as good or better talent than USC.

So myth BUSTED

People are saying that it is a combination of a number of things that give USC better recruits and a better shot at a consistent winner.

So, no myth.

Stemp
10-09-2013, 02:47 PM
People are saying that it is a combination of a number of things that give USC better recruits and a better shot at a consistent winner.

So, no myth.

LOL

So it went from "No Heisman winners would pick a school in a small town like BCS over LA" to "It's a combination of things gives USC better recruits".

Of course it's a combination of things, including the coach, the direction the program is headed, the system, the depth chart, where the school is in relation to his family, whether they want to be near their family or leave the state".

USC is in a state that is talent rich, just like A&M. But USC is headed down and A&M is headed up. A&M also has a recent Heisman winner. If you don't think it's important, look at Baylor and how their program has skyrocketed since RG3 left.

Not everyone is attracted to the lifestyle of LA or Southern California. Also, any coach who hasn't actively recruited CA, would have to start over making in-roads with HS coaches and still has to fight off schools like UCLA, Stanford, Cal and others.

Plus, succeeding at USC isn't a slam dunk just because it's USC and in LA, as Lane Kiffen thoroughly proved. Further, if a coach is successful and winning at the school he is at and the money is close (which it will be in Sumlin's case) then it certainly is reasonable for a coach to stick around and continue the success rather than try to rebuild a program that was flushed into the crapper.

Mr teX
10-09-2013, 02:52 PM
LOL

So it went from "No Heisman winners would pick a school in a small town like BCS over LA" to "It's a combination of things gives USC better recruits".

Of course it's a combination of things, including the coach, the direction the program is headed, the system, the depth chart, where the school is in relation to his family, whether they want to be near their family or leave the state".

USC is in a state that is talent rich, just like A&M. But USC is headed down and A&M is headed up. A&M also has a recent Heisman winner. If you don't think it's important, look at Baylor and how their program has skyrocketed since RG3 left.

Not everyone is attracted to the lifestyle of LA or Southern California. Also, any coach who hasn't actively recruited CA, would have to start over making in-roads with HS coaches and still has to fight off schools like UCLA, Stanford, Cal and others.

Plus, succeeding at USC isn't a slam dunk just because it's USC and in LA, as Lane Kiffen thoroughly proved. Further, if a coach is successful and winning at the school he is at and the money is close (which it will be in Sumlin's case) then it certainly is reasonable for a coach to stick around and continue the success rather than try to rebuild a program that was flushed into the crapper.

You could argue USC is headed up since they went on ahead and canned Kiffin.

htownfan32
10-09-2013, 02:54 PM
Jeez, is this still being debated? The only thing for it is to wait and see what happens. If he leaves, he leaves. That's life and college football for you. If he stays, hooray.

TexansSeminole
10-09-2013, 04:12 PM
LOL

So it went from "No Heisman winners would pick a school in a small town like BCS over LA" to "It's a combination of things gives USC better recruits".

Of course it's a combination of things, including the coach, the direction the program is headed, the system, the depth chart, where the school is in relation to his family, whether they want to be near their family or leave the state".

USC is in a state that is talent rich, just like A&M. But USC is headed down and A&M is headed up. A&M also has a recent Heisman winner. If you don't think it's important, look at Baylor and how their program has skyrocketed since RG3 left.

Not everyone is attracted to the lifestyle of LA or Southern California. Also, any coach who hasn't actively recruited CA, would have to start over making in-roads with HS coaches and still has to fight off schools like UCLA, Stanford, Cal and others.

Plus, succeeding at USC isn't a slam dunk just because it's USC and in LA, as Lane Kiffen thoroughly proved. Further, if a coach is successful and winning at the school he is at and the money is close (which it will be in Sumlin's case) then it certainly is reasonable for a coach to stick around and continue the success rather than try to rebuild a program that was flushed into the crapper.

Do you regularly combine two different peoples posts into one thought process?

Stemp
10-09-2013, 04:20 PM
Do you regularly combine two different peoples posts into one thought process?

When they are agreeing and defending the same statement/idea.

steelbtexan
10-10-2013, 05:25 PM
You will never convince a true MAROON Aggie that

a. Most people/Coaches/Recruits would rather live in LA instead of B/CS. Even though if given his 1st choice Manziel, (You know the guy who has been responsible for bringing A&M all of this national acclaim) wouldn't be an Aggie had Mack recruited him. (Thanks Mack)

htownfan32
10-10-2013, 05:52 PM
You will never convince a true MAROON Aggie that

a. Most people/Coaches/Recruits would rather live in LA instead of B/CS. Even though if given his 1st choice Manziel, (You know the guy who has been responsible for bringing A&M all of this national acclaim) wouldn't be an Aggie had Mack recruited him. (Thanks Mack)

I think that's a pretty well known fact. He wanted to go to UT.

But UT's elite coach and elite recruiters failed to pick him up.

thunderkyss
10-10-2013, 07:01 PM
You will never convince a true MAROON Aggie that

a. Most people/Coaches/Recruits would rather live in LA instead of B/CS. Even though if given his 1st choice Manziel, (You know the guy who has been responsible for bringing A&M all of this national acclaim) wouldn't be an Aggie had Mack recruited him. (Thanks Mack)

Why bother having an "a." if you don't have a "b." or a "c."


Personally I respect people who appreciate quiet small town living over the big city hustle.

TexansSeminole
10-10-2013, 10:44 PM
Why bother having an "a." if you don't have a "b." or a "c."


Personally I respect people who appreciate quiet small town living over the big city hustle.

I don't respect one group over another for their choice in residence but that doesn't really have anything to do with the point.

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 06:09 AM
I don't respect one group over another for their choice in residence but that doesn't really have anything to do with the point.

The point of my point about that point, is that just because more people would chose LA over CS, doesn't really make USC better than TAMU. There are several schools in LA, they aren't all better jobs than A&M for that reason.

I think USC is a better job. UCLA is a more comparable job. Both in LA.

Stemp
10-11-2013, 09:37 AM
You will never convince a true MAROON Aggie that

a. Most people/Coaches/Recruits would rather live in LA instead of B/CS. Even though if given his 1st choice Manziel, (You know the guy who has been responsible for bringing A&M all of this national acclaim) wouldn't be an Aggie had Mack recruited him. (Thanks Mack)

Actually he really wanted to go to TCU

Seriously

htownfan32
10-18-2013, 01:03 PM
A&M just got a commit from another 5 star prospect.
I guess no one wants to play in C-Stat.