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PockyAF
09-30-2013, 07:25 PM
The Texans threw the game away on Sunday when quarterback Matt Schaub threw an awful pass to Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman, which Sherman returned 58 yards for a touchdown late in the fourth quarter. On Monday, Texans coach Gary Kubiak acknowledged that it was a terrible play all around but said Schaub had to run it because that’s the play that was called.

Asked if Schaub had the freedom to audible out of that play, Kubiak answered, “No, once we called it, started the motion, it was game on. So we just had a very, very poor play like I told you.”

That answer is hard to understand: If Schaub saw that the play wasn’t going to work, why didn’t he have the authority to call an audible? And if he didn’t have the authority to call an audible, what about calling timeout? Or taking delay of game and calling a different play after the five-yard penalty? Or if he absolutely had to run the play, why not throw the ball out of bounds, or take a sack, or take a knee? Anything would have been better than a pick-six.

But the fact that Kubiak said he didn’t give Schaub the authority to call an audible suggests that Kubiak doesn’t have a lot of confidence in Schaub’s decision making. Asked about Schaub being on a short leash, Kubiak answered, “How short of a leash is he on? He’s our quarterback. Like I said, we’ve all got to do things a little better.”

One thing the Texans need to do better is figure out how to avoid any more “very, very poor plays.” Those are the plays that lose games.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/30/kubiak-schaub-couldnt-audible-out-of-very-very-poor-play/

Vinny
09-30-2013, 09:06 PM
modern day offensive coaching guru has a system where one can't change the play in a bad situation. Brilliant stuff. La Porte HS QB's have a better system than this for being in a bad play.

RTP2110
09-30-2013, 09:09 PM
I dunno man, I think that if I'm Schaub in that situation, a little subordination is in order. Common sense should trump flawed protocol.

gwallaia
09-30-2013, 09:10 PM
Kubiak is a ****ing idiot.

Trap_Star
09-30-2013, 09:11 PM
modern day offensive coaching guru has a system where one can't change the play in a bad situation. Brilliant stuff.

:kubepalm: he should be f'n embarrassed for even admitting that.

Vinny
09-30-2013, 09:14 PM
I think it's time for Bob to call an audible on the Coach. I would say that it's time for Rick Smith to call an audible but that's laughable since Rick Smith isn't allowed to call an audible either.

bOODRO87
09-30-2013, 09:16 PM
How do you stay positive after reading that? Seriously. It's no wonder why the well coached teams make us look stupid. Never mind the Broncos, watch us get beaten by the CHIEFS.


This sucks. Bad.

Kaiser Toro
09-30-2013, 09:25 PM
It sounds more like he is instinctually covering for Schaub, but thereby implicating himself to a fan base that already sees he, Schaub's contract and Rick Smith's incredible UDFA work as the Teflon Trinity.

This team is talented enough to get the result, they just need an organizational structure that has check and balances. The current power structure has been on cruise control since pen went to paper eight years ago.

Hottoddie
09-30-2013, 09:25 PM
If this is true, that's got to be the stupidest call I've ever heard of. The QB has to have the flexibility to make a change at the last moment. The defense is constantly shifting around before the snap. I guess we now know why Peyton didn't come here. He must've been afraid he'd have to biatch slap Kubiak. :lol:

DocBar
09-30-2013, 09:29 PM
Or maybe Kubiak knows what he has for a QB and doesn't let him audible because it just isn't a good idea.

PapaL
09-30-2013, 09:31 PM
Peyton would've been the best OC on our side of the field. It makes perfect sense now.

Either Schaub is too stupid to audible or Kubes doesn't trust him. Which is it?

PockyAF
09-30-2013, 09:31 PM
I think it's time for Bob to call an audible on the Coach.

Yea, I wish. The jig is up on Kubiak.

n the locker room after the game, safety Earl Thomas didn’t deflect credit from Sherman. After all, he had to make the interception — his second of the season. But Thomas gave much of the credit to defensive coordinator Dan Quinn for his play call.

Quinn noticed on film that Houston liked to roll out Schaub off play action in short-yardage situations, then have him quickly dump the ball in the flat. So when the Texans faced a third-and-four with about three minutes left, Quinn dialed up a play designed specifically to thwart that.

Quinn had safety Kam Chancellor blitz off the edge, which negated Schaub’s ability to roll out after faking the handoff. He also had Sherman hover in the flat.

After turning and seeing Chancellor in his face, Schaub quickly threw the ball up for grabs to tight end Owen Daniels. Sherman played it perfectly and jumped in front of the pass.

“You’ve got to give credit to the D-coordinator on that one,” Thomas said.

Seattle’s defense had seen that exact play in Friday’s practice when going against the scout-team offense. In practice, Sherman also picked off the pass in the flat.

Defensive end Chris Clemons said Seattle’s defense doesn’t run that play often, but he said Quinn knew what Houston would likely do on that play based on the Texans’ formation and down.

“We had practiced exactly that,” coach Pete Carroll said. “So it was really cool that it happened, but even more so for the poise and athleticism for Sherman to pull it off. It was the way it was supposed to be.”

Sherman, of course, completed the play by taking it 58 yards for a touchdown minus half his footwear.

“It might be the longest return without a shoe in the NFL,” Sherman said. “You got to check that.”

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2021929217_shermansidebar30xml.html

Predictable, routined. Kubiak was simply out-coached on that play.





http://www.sports790.com/media/podcast-proper-gentlemen-podcast-propergentlemen/monday-september-30th-hour-2-23774901/

The guys on 790's thoughts on that play at 45:53

Pollardized
09-30-2013, 09:32 PM
If this is true, that's got to be the stupidest call I've ever heard of. The QB has to have the flexibility to make a change at the last moment. The defense is constantly shifting around before the snap. I guess we now know why Peyton didn't come here. He must've been afraid he'd have to biatch slap Kubiak. :lol:

Man, could you imagine the scene on the sideline - Peyton's big forehead headbutting against Gary's perfect 2 bottle of hair spray melon???

Hottoddie
09-30-2013, 09:32 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Schaub call audibiles a few years ago when we were the #3 offense in the NFL?

macho grande
09-30-2013, 09:33 PM
It's no wonder why the well coached teams make us look stupid.


This sucks. Bad.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Furthermore I can't believe that schaub wouldn't take it upon himself to change the play. Hell I'm a lowly middle manager and I got the stones to go against the grain when I KNOW that what I'm being asked to do is not helping our long or short term goals. More times than not I'm given kudos afterwards for showing initiative and "making a freaking play".
Schaub's a complete kiss-ass yes man. Ridiculous!

Vinny
09-30-2013, 09:34 PM
I heard the play by play team say that Schaub is the most blitzed QB in the NFL. No shock since he handles pressure poorly and doesn't stretch the field to make teams pay.

https://twitter.com/djvipsoundz/status/384746383841820672/photo/1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVbkzCrCcAA30eL.jpg

Kaiser Toro
09-30-2013, 09:35 PM
Always a bridesmaid

http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/11722/435823320_t220.jpg

But, never a bride

http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHO/AAGV027-1.jpg

***this is material world therapy for a fan that is one step from going ALL CAPS.

Nawzer
09-30-2013, 09:35 PM
Kubiak is a ****ing idiot.

Welcome to the club.

eriadoc
09-30-2013, 09:37 PM
Or maybe Kubiak knows what he has for a QB and doesn't let him audible because it just isn't a good idea.

1.) Preventing him from changing the play hasn't stopped Schaub from giving points to the other team every game this season.

2.) Kubiak hand picked this QB and declares him the starter each season before training camp even comes around. He hasn't drafted a serious challenger to the position, and despite what Yates did in his rookie year, Kubiak never opened up the position for competition.

Here's something to think about:

When Brady came in for Bledsoe, he didn't really tear it up. He did good, but not anything that would elad you to believe he'd become what he became. You think Kubiak would have rolled with him when Bledsoe came back? What about when Bledsoe came into the AFC Championship game and rallied the troops with a key drive to help seal the deal? What about when you consider that Bledsoe had just signed a $100M deal? Personally, I think if Kubiak were the coach of the Pats at that time, Brady would be a footnote to history.

DocBar
09-30-2013, 09:38 PM
I heard the play by play team say that Schaub is the most blitzed QB in the NFL. No shock since he handles pressure poorly and doesn't stretch the field to make teams pay.

https://twitter.com/djvipsoundz/status/384746383841820672/photo/1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVbkzCrCcAA30eL.jpg

I heard them say he was the least blitzed QB. I thought that was because teams didn't need to blitz Schaub to cause happy feet.

Vinny
09-30-2013, 09:40 PM
Matt Schaub's twitter handle just went dead it seems

https://twitter.com/MSchaub8

eriadoc
09-30-2013, 09:41 PM
I heard the play by play team say that Schaub is the most blitzed QB in the NFL. No shock since he handles pressure poorly and doesn't stretch the field to make teams pay.

Yep. You typically do more blitzing of young, inexperienced, and/or crappy ass QBs, while you do more dropping into coverage against the good ones.

eriadoc
09-30-2013, 09:41 PM
Matt Schaub's twitter handle just went dead it seems

https://twitter.com/MSchaub8

LMAO! So he's a bit sensitive as well, I guess. There's no crying in football!

htowntexans1985
09-30-2013, 09:42 PM
How can we even expect great things from this regime after the coach pretty much said our quarterback doesn't have the capabilities to audible out of a play after seeing how the defense sets up? I never wished for them to lose but something dramatic has to happen for their to be a change. Maybe going 2-14 will be the nail in the coffin.

Hottoddie
09-30-2013, 09:43 PM
I heard them say he was the least blitzed QB. I thought that was because teams didn't need to blitz Schaub to cause happy feet.

No, they said most blitzed. I heard it as well & had a flash back to the Carr era. :eek:

Runner
09-30-2013, 09:55 PM
I think it's time for Bob to call an audible on the Coach. I would say that it's time for Rick Smith to call an audible but that's laughable since Rick Smith isn't allowed to call an audible either.

I don't know if Rick Smith is allowed to call an audible, but I do know he wouldn't call one back.

And give Kubes a break, he's a first time head coach.

===================

This brain trust should have been gone five years ago. Baby steps. Incremental improvement. That was never the "right way" in today's NFL.

Seegara
09-30-2013, 10:18 PM
Let's face the fax. Kubiak isn't going to be fired and Schaub isn't going to be benched. The team the fans and players said had to win NOW isn't going to make it this season. We might as well root for our second favorite team.

PapaL
09-30-2013, 10:19 PM
I heard them say he was the least blitzed QB. I thought that was because teams didn't need to blitz Schaub to cause happy feet.

I also heard MOST blitzed.

thunderkyss
09-30-2013, 10:27 PM
Asked if Schaub had the freedom to audible out of that play, Kubiak answered, “No, once we called it, started the motion, it was game on. So we just had a very, very poor play like I told you.”
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/30/kubiak-schaub-couldnt-audible-out-of-very-very-poor-play/

I think we're reading this wrong. He's not saying Schaub doesn't have the ability to change the play or call an audible.

He's saying once we line up & he calls for the motion, it's too late. He saw what he was looking for, he's going to snap the ball. He doesn't see the extra blitzer until it's too late.

The motion was supposed to tip them off, it didn't.

chicagotexan2
09-30-2013, 10:27 PM
It sounds more like he is instinctually covering for Schaub, but thereby implicating himself to a fan base that already sees he, Schaub's contract and Rick Smith's incredible UDFA work as the Teflon Trinity.

This team is talented enough to get the result, they just need an organizational structure that has check and balances. The current power structure has been on cruise control since pen went to paper eight years ago.

That's what I think too. Ok It was a lousy play call but Schaub threw the pass in the face of pressure instead of doing what he does so well which is crumbling into a fetal position. Had he done that the team could at least let the defense do its thing. instead Leonard Lawrence from full metal jacket threw the game away. I used to support Kubiak but this 'its on me schit has gotten really old'. Schaub is a bumb that made a terrible decision and that is the bottom line.

thunderkyss
09-30-2013, 10:30 PM
How do you stay positive after reading that? Seriously. It's no wonder why the well coached teams make us look stupid. Never mind the Broncos, watch us get beaten by the CHIEFS.


This sucks. Bad.

479 yards of total offense, 2 TDs, with a gimpy QB having a bad day, who doesn't have the ability to audible.

Imagine if he could.

One million billion yards & 30 TDs a game.

Pollardized
09-30-2013, 10:31 PM
https://www.facebook.com/benchmattschaub?ref=ts&fref=ts

edwardc5637
09-30-2013, 10:31 PM
I'm see more and more that Kubiak is a control freak.

thunderkyss
09-30-2013, 10:33 PM
Predictable, routined. Kubiak was simply out-coached on that play.



If I had to guess, I'm sure that's how we shut them down in the first half.

thunderkyss
09-30-2013, 10:34 PM
Always a bridesmaid

http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/11722/435823320_t220.jpg

But, never a bride

http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHO/AAGV027-1.jpg

***this is material world therapy for a fan that is one step from going ALL CAPS.

It's amazing what success looks like outside of Houston. For them, 1 & done is the shiznit. We can actually win a play-off game & we ain't done sht.

bOODRO87
09-30-2013, 10:37 PM
https://www.facebook.com/benchmattschaub?ref=ts&fref=ts

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1381387_244521242363273_448469114_n.jpg

CloakNNNdagger
09-30-2013, 10:39 PM
How can we even expect great things from this regime after the coach pretty much said our quarterback doesn't have the capabilities to audible out of a play after seeing how the defense sets up? I never wished for them to lose but something dramatic has to happen for their to be a change. Maybe going 2-14 will be the nail in the coffin.

He doesn't read defenses well. He doesn't go through progressions well. He doesn't see wide open receivers well. Why would you not believe that he does not have the ability to recognize what play to call in an audible?

DocBar
09-30-2013, 10:44 PM
479 yards of total offense, 2 TDs, with a gimpy QB having a bad day, who doesn't have the ability to audible.

Imagine if he could.

One million billion yards & 30 TDs a game.No. That QB is playing in Denver. I doubt they want to trade him.

Brisco_County
09-30-2013, 10:58 PM
There are two tendencies of the national sports media that I can rely on year after year:

1) Pretend like the New York Jets are relevant.
2) Avoid doing even minimal research when reporting on the Texans.

But the fact that Kubiak said he didn’t give Schaub the authority to call an audible suggests that Kubiak doesn’t have a lot of confidence in Schaub’s decision making. Asked about Schaub being on a short leash, Kubiak answered, “How short of a leash is he on? He’s our quarterback. Like I said, we’ve all got to do things a little better.”

It reminds me of when celebrities offer brash political statements on issues they've never read about.

In this case, simple research would reveal that Kubiak's system eliminates the traditional audible by design. It's systemic, not reliant on personnel.

Texans Chick just wrote about this two months ago after interviewing Schaub and Myers:

One of the off-season discussions this year by both some fans and media is how Gary Kubiak should give more power to Matt Schaub to change out of plays at the line of scrimmage to take advantage of defenses.

It isn’t a criticism I’ve understood given the nature of the offense the Texans run. Schaub does have the power to switch plays at the line, it is just that it isn’t done with the obviousness and gyrations that some quarterbacks do.

...

Myers: “I’m not going to explain how we handle audibling at the line, but nice try there. That’s the way it works in the NFL. Some teams and some quarterbacks are given that opportunity because there teams offenses are based upon them going to the line and having six different plays possible then they just give the line and the rest of offense what they are going to do. In our scheme, Matt doesn’t necessarily have to do that all the time. You guys may not notice, but we audible a lot. You guys may not notice and talk about it all the time because you guys don’t notice it. It’s one of the things that come with the territory. It’s a smooth transition for us with the zone blocking scheme and with the rollouts that we have that Matt’s been able to run. We don’t have to audible as much because we have the potential for other things to happen. Our audibles aren’t the same as other teams, but we get it done just as much as they do. Everyone talking about how they need to put more pressure on Matt and how he needs to take on more of the offense. It’s there, you guys just don’t notice.”

Schaub: “If I explain what we do too much, then other teams are understanding it too. We’re glad that no one out there really knows what we’re doing. We do have a built-in system but it’s something that we do at the line of scrimmage that is not as dramatic as some teams do. We do it about 30 percent of the game. We have two or maybe three plays at the line of scrimmage and then we go from there. It’s all based on what the defense is doing. Sometimes it’s run to run, run to pass, it can be any one of those things, but it’s all predicated on the defense.”

Link (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/changing-plays-at-the-line-matt-schaub-chris-myers-talk-audibles/).

And here's the thread: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101160

tedr
09-30-2013, 10:59 PM
He doesn't read defenses well. He doesn't go through progressions well. He doesn't see wide open receivers well. Why would you not believe that he does not have the ability to recognize what play to call in an audible?

If this is right, I feel pretty certain Kubiak and Smith knew this before they signed Schaub to the extension. So, if they knew this beforehand, why the heck did we offer him this huge contract? Were they both so arrogant as to believe that even though he has these major limitations, they could work around them because Kubiak is an offensive guru and could manage the QB and the team to a championship?

cstyle42
09-30-2013, 11:07 PM
Kubiak is a ****ing idiot.

I'm crying laughing! Most of this is joy with some sorrow. I'm happy and at peace with the fact that all texans fans are now forced to see this and that Schaub is what he is as well. I just hate seeing the texans lose it just ticks me the F off.

cstyle42
09-30-2013, 11:11 PM
:kubepalm: he should be f'n embarrassed for even admitting that.

This guy thinks he's a great coach... what a joke.

Rey
09-30-2013, 11:11 PM
I've been saying for years that this isn't a complex audibling system. This is an old school system that a lot of highschool teams don't even use anymore.

The "audibles" are built in and pre determined. There is no creative audibling by Schaub and his pre snap reads are basic.

Sage already explained this. Schaub has said things that showed what our system is like and so has kubiak.

But Schaub not being able to use a big boy audibling system wasn't the issue there. It might be a symptom of a bigger problem, but Schaub just needs to not go full retard when he's faced with a rushing defender.

Kaiser Toro
09-30-2013, 11:16 PM
I've been saying for years that this isn't a complex audibling system. This is an old school system that a lot of highschool teams don't even use anymore.

The "audibles" are built in and pre determined. There is no creative audibling by Schaub and his pre snap reads are basic.

Sage already explained this. Schaub has said things that showed what our system is like and so has kubiak.

But Schaub not being able to use a big boy audibling system wasn't the issue there. It might be a symptom of a bigger problem, but Schaub just needs to not go full retard when he's faced with a rushing defender.

That is one narrative. The counter would be, that evening in knowing Schaub's lack of agility, Kubiak decides to call a play that puts his QB in a position to fail at the height of the game - while not giving Schaub an opportunity to audible into a Moons over my Hammy.

Live with the menu, die by the menu.

burro
09-30-2013, 11:18 PM
If Schaub audibled to a different play and we didn't make the first down, assuming Seattle still wins the game, fans would just complain about how inept he is at it and demand he never do it again.

Hindsight is 20/20, Schaub trusted the judgement of the (alleged) offensive genius HC and it didn't work out. That's going to happen from time to time in the NFL, it's not like Seattle got to be the #1 defense through a lottery.

Kaiser Toro
09-30-2013, 11:22 PM
If Schaub audibled to a different play and we didn't make the first down, assuming Seattle still wins the game, fans would just complain about how inept he is at it and demand he never do it again.

Hindsight is 20/20, Schaub trusted the judgement of the (alleged) offensive genius HC and it didn't work out. That's going to happen from time to time in the NFL, it's not like Seattle got to be the #1 defense through a lottery.

The previous two weeks he had pick six's. We would have understood the logic. Schaub went from trending to full blown Schaub Team Six.

DocBar
09-30-2013, 11:23 PM
Or Kubiak is falling on his sword and hopefully Smith is kept as GM in 2014. I don't want to see another full rebuilding.

JPPT1974
09-30-2013, 11:23 PM
You live and learn. Hopefully Kubiak and team will rebound in week five and beyond!

JCTexan
09-30-2013, 11:23 PM
My take in a different thread:
Wtf? Schaub couldn't audible to a running play if he noticed a blitz? Somehow I call bs on Kubiak here. I would bet Kubiak is just trying to take heat off his QB with this comment.

infantrycak
09-30-2013, 11:27 PM
He doesn't read defenses well. He doesn't go through progressions well. He doesn't see wide open receivers well. Why would you not believe that he does not have the ability to recognize what play to call in an audible?

Funny I only hear the progressions and doesn't see receivers from Texans fans. The ex-coaches say those are strengths.

Honestly it is hilarious reading the game day thread and listening at the same time. The former QB commentator will be saying Schaub is on his 3rd read and the MB will be saying he stared down his receiver the whole way. Or this last game with tons of folks jumping in saying AJ was wide open in the back of the end zone. No as a practical matter he wasn't. Schaub was heading right to left with AJ well back from him. That would have required gymnast to pull off and we know that ain't Schaub.

To be clear, Schaub is not playing well but he is also not guilty of everything alleged here.

Scooter
09-30-2013, 11:29 PM
My take in a different thread: Wtf? Schaub couldn't audible to a running play if he noticed a blitz? Somehow I call bs on Kubiak here. I would bet Kubiak is just trying to take heat off his QB with this comment.

that's how i'm reading it as well. there are always pre-snap options. kubiak is protecting schaub here, though is also probably a bit beside himself for calling the play in hindsight.

for the record, i'm still on board with kubiak. i think he and wade are our ideal coaches. the one and only part of the team that i've given up on is matt schaub. now if kubiak wants to hang himself with the matt schaub rope, i cant say much, but otherwise he has my support.

DocBar
09-30-2013, 11:40 PM
Funny I only hear the progressions and doesn't see receivers from Texans fans. The ex-coaches say those are strengths.

Honestly it is hilarious reading the game day thread and listening at the same time. The former QB commentator will be saying Schaub is on his 3rd read and the MB will be saying he stared down his receiver the whole way. Or this last game with tons of folks jumping in saying AJ was wide open in the back of the end zone. No as a practical matter he wasn't. Schaub was heading right to left with AJ well back from him. That would have required gymnast to pull off and we know that ain't Schaub.

To be clear, Schaub is not playing well but he is also not guilty of everything alleged here.Schaub may not be guilty of everything here, but there is no denying that he has missed wide open receivers dating back to last season and made some dumb ass throws. Don't go sainting Schaub just yet. He has more than enough culpability for his poor play in 2012 and 2013.

texanhead08
09-30-2013, 11:41 PM
This is ****ing ridiculous, college QB's all over the country are allowed to audible out of bad plays but we have a 10yr veteran that our coach doesn't allow to audible. Kubes needs to go asap.

SchaubApologist
09-30-2013, 11:44 PM
that's how i'm reading it as well. there are always pre-snap options. kubiak is protecting schaub here, though is also probably a bit beside himself for calling the play in hindsight.

for the record, i'm still on board with kubiak. i think he and wade are our ideal coaches. the one and only part of the team that i've given up on is matt schaub. now if kubiak wants to hang himself with the matt schaub rope, i cant say much, but otherwise he has my support.

I think one more pick 6 will put Schaub to bed.

Or they'll fake an injury to save face.

SchaubApologist
09-30-2013, 11:45 PM
Schaub may not be guilty of everything here, but there is no denying that he has missed wide open receivers dating back to last season and made some dumb ass throws. Don't go sainting Schaub just yet. He has more than enough culpability for his poor play in 2012 and 2013.

Schaub wears the scarlet letter, make no mistake about it.

His time is nearing an end.

texanhead08
09-30-2013, 11:47 PM
Schaub doesn't get a free pass because he made a bonehead play, but he made one earlier in the game so what exactly did we really expect him to do. We hear this lack of audible freedom every year and it always comes back to bite us in the ass. Have you ever heard of this in the history of football ?? This might be why Manning was never really a possibility to come here it might be that Gary was too stubborn to give up some of his authority when it comes to the offense.

infantrycak
09-30-2013, 11:49 PM
Don't go sainting Schaub just yet. He has more than enough culpability for his poor play in 2012 and 2013.

Not sainting him at all. To the contrary I am saying there are plenty of legitimate things to complain about Schaub and Kubiak without making more up. On the pick 6 it was a poor play call, a bad protection call, a bad decision not to audible whether or not authorized and brain dead execution.

Lucky
09-30-2013, 11:52 PM
I heard the play by play team say that Schaub is the most blitzed QB in the NFL. No shock since he handles pressure poorly and doesn't stretch the field to make teams pay.

It's also very tempting for the defense to blitz when the QB rarely checks out of the play.
That is one narrative. The counter would be, that evening in knowing Schaub's lack of agility, Kubiak decides to call a play that puts his QB in a position to fail at the height of the game - while not giving Schaub an opportunity to audible into a Moons over my Hammy.

Live with the menu, die by the menu.
I'm in no way absolving Schaub's responsibility for this mistake. But it was a "very,very poor play" call. The defense is not going to crash inside looking for a run on 3rd and 4. They're thinking pass. No one went for the fake as a top defense shouldn't. Schaub had no chance to make a positive play. All he could do was make the least negative play. Which would have been to curl into a ball and take the gift sack. How does Kubiak pour over these plays all week and then during the game, then make a ridiculous call like that?

SchaubApologist
09-30-2013, 11:52 PM
Not sainting him at all. To the contrary I am saying there are plenty of legitimate things to complain about Schaub and Kubiak without making more up. On the pick 6 it was a poor play call, a bad protection call, a bad decision not to audible whether or not authorized and brain dead execution.

I would have been great if Schaub noticed the safety/cb approaching the line to blitz... Of course, he had no clue. Zero awareness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUbvJZfkuzA

Goatcheese
10-01-2013, 12:07 AM
I heard the play by play team say that Schaub is the most blitzed QB in the NFL. No shock since he handles pressure poorly and doesn't stretch the field to make teams pay.


A few years ago (when the right side of his OLine weren't incompetent Fug ups), Schaub was a blitz beater with the highest QB rating in the NFL when blitzed.

Funny how that works.

I would have been great if Schaub noticed the safety/cb approaching the line to blitz... Of course, he had no clue. Zero awareness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUbvJZfkuzA

The DB didn't come up until the WR came in motion. Kubiak said that once the motion started, they can't audible the play.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? It was either run it or call a time out at that point.

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2013, 12:10 AM
A few years ago (when the right side of his OLine weren't incompetent Fug ups), Schaub was a blitz beater with the highest QB rating in the NFL when blitzed.

Funny how that works.


I attribute it to an injury.

Goatcheese
10-01-2013, 12:21 AM
I attribute it to an injury.

That could also play a role, but Schaub's mobility hasn't been affected that much (he was never what I would call nimble), while the current borderline NFL talent on the right side of the OLine is not 50% of Biscuit and Caveman.

SchaubApologist
10-01-2013, 12:25 AM
A few years ago (when the right side of his OLine weren't incompetent Fug ups), Schaub was a blitz beater with the highest QB rating in the NFL when blitzed.

Funny how that works.



The DB didn't come up until the WR came in motion. Kubiak said that once the motion started, they can't audible the play.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? It was either run it or call a time out at that point.

Chill out for one sec.

Checking a blitzer is not an audible.

Apples and Oranges.

infantrycak
10-01-2013, 12:27 AM
I would have been great if Schaub noticed the safety/cb approaching the line to blitz... Of course, he had no clue. Zero awareness.

The DB didn't come up until the WR came in motion. Kubiak said that once the motion started, they can't audible the play.

Exactly, plus there is absolutely no way to look at that clip and tell whether Schaub was aware of the safety.

EVOLVIST
10-01-2013, 01:01 AM
That could also play a role, but Schaub's mobility hasn't been affected that much (he was never what I would call nimble), while the current borderline NFL talent on the right side of the OLine is not 50% of Biscuit and Caveman.

And therein is the majority of the problem. I'll have to walk the circumstances through my head again, but changing up our offensive line at the height of offensive power was the death knell. I was thinking about this today. As much as we browbeat Winston, who among you wouldn't want him back today, if only to give ourselves a fighting chance?

jmont93
10-01-2013, 01:26 AM
Schaub is not the flashiest guy but he has a good skill set. It's not necessarily his play that is costing us. Him included, its about playing sixty minutes of intense and disciplined football. Bring some passion to the offense. Everything I have seen so far is Andre, Schaub, and Kubiak moping around and Foster getting angry at himself for not producing like he used to. Starting at the top get driven and have those players in the zone. Did you see Pete Carol and Russell Wilson towards the end of that game. There was no way in hell they were going to lose that. Whether Schaub can get an edge to him and bring out the intensity in the offense is what will determine if this team makes the super bowl.

waynegg
10-01-2013, 02:46 AM
Exactly, plus there is absolutely no way to look at that clip and tell whether Schaub was aware of the safety.

There is a way to look at it and tell that he should have been...

Wolf6151
10-01-2013, 03:07 AM
It's sad that Kubiak doesn't trust Schaub to make audibles at the LOS. I'm not sure if this is an indictment of Kubiak, Schaub, or both. I honestly think it's both. Kubiak is an ego maniac control freak that must be in control of every aspect of the team at all times, and Schaub is terrible under pressure, isn't smart enough, or good enough to audible to the correct play when it's needed.

burro
10-01-2013, 04:01 AM
The previous two weeks he had pick six's. We would have understood the logic. Schaub went from trending to full blown Schaub Team Six.

There was a stretch in 2010 where Peyton Manning threw 11 INTs in 3 games, including two pick-6s in an OT loss to Dallas. Neck injury, yeah yeah we know...the point is that most good QBs have crappy games, sometimes even stretches of crappy games. They usually recover and I expect Schaub to do the same.

LEATHERHEAD
10-01-2013, 05:02 AM
Im going to tape the next game,,,so I only Waste a 1 1/2 of my life...???????20 unanswered points???????im mad at MeatHead also,,but damn

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 05:54 AM
If this is right, I feel pretty certain Kubiak and Smith knew this before they signed Schaub to the extension. So, if they knew this beforehand, why the heck did we offer him this huge contract? Were they both so arrogant as to believe that even though he has these major limitations, they could work around them because Kubiak is an offensive guru and could manage the QB and the team to a championship?

Just more stuff that doesn't add up, yet "we" find to be more believable.


:thinking:

bckey
10-01-2013, 06:13 AM
It sounds more like he is instinctually covering for Schaub, but thereby implicating himself to a fan base that already sees he, Schaub's contract and Rick Smith's incredible UDFA work as the Teflon Trinity.

This team is talented enough to get the result, they just need an organizational structure that has check and balances. The current power structure has been on cruise control since pen went to paper eight years ago.

My thoughts exactly. Great post!

Txn_in_FL
10-01-2013, 07:44 AM
There was a stretch in 2010 where Peyton Manning threw 11 INTs in 3 games, including two pick-6s in an OT loss to Dallas. Neck injury, yeah yeah we know...the point is that most good QBs have crappy games, sometimes even stretches of crappy games. They usually recover and I expect Schaub to do the same.

Please, please, PUH-LEEZE tell me you aren't trying to compare the trials and tribulations of The Peyton to Matt Schaub. You absolutely can NOT make that comparison and to even bring something like that up is ludicrous. I would neither consider Manning nor Schaub "good" quarterbacks. The Peyton is probably the greatest QB of our time and the other is the complete polar opposite of that description. Good is somewhere in the middle.

Mr. Burro, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in on message board is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 08:10 AM
That is one narrative. The counter would be, that evening in knowing Schaub's lack of agility, Kubiak decides to call a play that puts his QB in a position to fail at the height of the game - while not giving Schaub an opportunity to audible into a Moons over my Hammy.

Live with the menu, die by the menu.

Kubiak is falling on the sword for Matt. They go to the line & make adjustments. Matt did not see something he was supposed to see. He should have checked out of that play if he saw two blitzers off the backside.... he didn't.

That would have been a handoff to Arian if he had. Maybe Matt was thinking he'll keep the ball & make a play, it was 3rd & 4... not really a run situation. But Arian just had 2 carries for 5 yards & a third (the most recent) for 1.

With two blitzers off the backside, the playside should have been able to pick up 4 yards.

Thorn
10-01-2013, 08:12 AM
The stink on this team just got a little worse.

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 08:21 AM
that's how i'm reading it as well. there are always pre-snap options. kubiak is protecting schaub here, though is also probably a bit beside himself for calling the play in hindsight.


People are showing their hatred for Schaub with their response to this. They're talking about Schaub going full retard, but they're swallowing the coach speak hook line & sinker


Or this last game with tons of folks jumping in saying AJ was wide open in the back of the end zone. No as a practical matter he wasn't. Schaub was heading right to left with AJ well back from him. That would have required gymnast to pull off and we know that ain't Schaub.


Like an idiot, my eyes were about 5 inches wide. I was sitting on the edge of my seat fully prepared to leap 5 feet in the air.

Schaub did a wonderful job avoiding a sack.... he separated himself from his pursuants wonderfully. As he made his way to the sideline, he looked at the one receiver there (had that guy made a beeline for the back of the end zone, no doubt in my mind Schaub would have made the right throw, but that didn't happen). After he did not open up, Schaub threw the ball away. Not a defender around him for at least 5 yards.

Had he stopped, set his feet & just looked for another receiver working his way open he'd have seen Andre coming to him. If there was no one there, he could have thrown it out of the back of the end zone.

No doubt about it, it would have been an amazing play from Matt Schaub.

But isn't that what we're saying we need? That would have won the game & put another in the practically empty Matt Schaub bag (had the defense held up, which at that point I can't say they would have based on the way they were playing at that moment (what they did in the first half was irrelevant at that point)).

gwallaia
10-01-2013, 08:22 AM
There is absolutely no way Kubiak is the head coach here next season.

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 08:29 AM
The DB didn't come up until the WR came in motion. Kubiak said that once the motion started, they can't audible the play.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? It was either run it or call a time out at that point.

We weren't even threathening the play clock at that time...... another WTF decision when you consider we should have been trying to kill the clock.

Just because Kubiak says there wasn't time, doesn't mean there wasn't time.

Most likely Schaub didn't see the DB was set to blitz, probably thought he was just adjusting to the WR. In his defense, Schaub is looking at him out of the corner of his eye. What he saw probably looked a lot like what he wanted to see.

Tango
10-01-2013, 08:31 AM
This is why I hate the 'journalism' in sports so much. It's already bad enough at usual sphere, but in the sports sphere the so called, reporters are down right bad. That Schaub wasn't given a chance to change the play (or ever given a chance to change the play) is a myth.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/09/texans-foster-calls-players-only-meeting/?cmpid=hpbn
There’s a misconception that Matt Schaub can’t change plays at the line of scrimmage.

In the loss to Seattle, Schaub checked out of “a lot of situations,” according to coach Gary Kubiak.

The Texans don’t use conventional audibles where the quarterback can change the play and call what he wants based on the defense.

Schaub has a lot of freedom at the line of scrimmage. When the Texans are in their hurry-up offense, Schaub calls everything at the line of scrimmage. Otherwise, the Texans use predetermined options that are set by the coaches.

Schaub may call two plays in the huddle based on what the coverage might be. He can check out of one and go with the other at the line of scrimmage.

Kubiak created confusion on Monday when he was asked if Schaub could have checked out of the bootleg call that resulted in him forcing a pass to tight end Owen Daniels that was returned for a touchdown that tied the score 20-20.

Schaub should have thrown the ball away with blitzing strong safety Kam Chancellor in his face. Asked if Schaub could have called an audible, Kubiak said, “No, once we called it, started the motion, it was game on.”

Txn_in_FL
10-01-2013, 08:31 AM
There is absolutely no way Kubiak is the head coach here next season.

C'mon man... I would like to believe this but I just can't. Who do they sign and is Bob willing to blow this thing up and start over. Don't tell me Wade would be the guy, I don't think he has the ability to put the discipline needed into the team as a head coach.

CloakNNNdagger
10-01-2013, 08:37 AM
If this is right, I feel pretty certain Kubiak and Smith knew this before they signed Schaub to the extension. So, if they knew this beforehand, why the heck did we offer him this huge contract? Were they both so arrogant as to believe that even though he has these major limitations, they could work around them because Kubiak is an offensive guru and could manage the QB and the team to a championship?


http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/matt-schaub-gary-kubiak.jpg?w=400&h=225

Schaub: Boss, can I please, please take a quick lock at that Menu?

Kubiak: Absolutely not! At least not until you learn to read better!

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 08:38 AM
Schaub’s options predetermined

There’s a misconception that Matt Schaub can’t change plays at the line of scrimmage.

In the loss to Seattle, Schaub checked out of “a lot of situations,” according to coach Gary Kubiak.

The Texans don’t use conventional audibles where the quarterback can change the play and call what he wants based on the defense.

Schaub has a lot of freedom at the line of scrimmage. When the Texans are in their hurry-up offense, Schaub calls everything at the line of scrimmage. Otherwise, the Texans use predetermined options that are set by the coaches.

Schaub may call two plays in the huddle based on what the coverage might be. He can check out of one and go with the other at the line of scrimmage.

Kubiak created confusion on Monday when he was asked if Schaub could have checked out of the bootleg call that resulted in him forcing a pass to tight end Owen Daniels that was returned for a touchdown that tied the score 20-20.

Schaub should have thrown the ball away with blitzing strong safety Kam Chancellor in his face. Asked if Schaub could have called an audible, Kubiak said, “No, once we called it, started the motion, it was game on.”

From the Chron (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/09/texans-foster-calls-players-only-meeting/)

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 08:42 AM
This is why I hate the 'journalism' in sports so much. It's already bad enough at usual sphere, but in the sports sphere the so called, reporters are down right bad. That Schaub wasn't given a chance to change the play (or ever given a chance to change the play) is a myth.
Schaub should have thrown the ball away with blitzing strong safety Kam Chancellor in his face. Asked if Schaub could have called an audible, Kubiak said, “No, once we called it, started the motion, it was game on.”
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/09/texans-foster-calls-players-only-meeting/?cmpid=hpbn

Don't blame the media, he was pretty straight forward with what he said. People took it to believe what they want to believe. We've been over this audible crap too many times.

Still, Kubiak is protecting Matt a bit here with what he said. The motion is supposed to help the QB see what's happening. That's why it's "important" for us to get to the LoS as quickly as possible.

cstyle42
10-01-2013, 08:48 AM
There is absolutely no way Kubiak is the head coach here next season.

Bob McNair will show you what a good ol boy system is.

PapaL
10-01-2013, 08:48 AM
Screw all the predetermined stuff; here's an option, call a timeout!

This cutesy we're smarter than you so we're not changing things based on what the defense gives you is ridiculous. Why attack a weakness? Instead, let's throw a high pressured pass in the direction of the best CB in the league.

Brisco_County
10-01-2013, 09:41 AM
This is why I hate the 'journalism' in sports so much. It's already bad enough at usual sphere, but in the sports sphere the so called, reporters are down right bad. That Schaub wasn't given a chance to change the play (or ever given a chance to change the play) is a myth.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/09/texans-foster-calls-players-only-meeting/?cmpid=hpbn

Absolutely. Today's mainstream media is bad enough, but in sports media there's a limited set of subject matter to research. There are only 32 teams in the NFL. How difficult is it to know the basic philosophy and expectations of each team's offense? I could learn any one within an hour on Google. This NBC reporter just grabbed a Kubiak quote and half-assed his paycheck for the weekend.

PapaL
10-01-2013, 09:49 AM
Absolutely. Today's mainstream media is bad enough, but in sports media there's a limited set of subject matter to research. There are only 32 teams in the NFL. How difficult is it to know the basic philosophy and expectations of each team's offense? I could learn any one within an hour on Google. This NBC reporter just grabbed a Kubiak quote and half-assed his paycheck for the weekend.

If you think the media is about getting facts then yes, they may gave half assed it.

If you think the media is about generating a buzz and getting more views, then they totally nailed it.

Tango
10-01-2013, 10:56 AM
Absolutely. Today's mainstream media is bad enough, but in sports media there's a limited set of subject matter to research. There are only 32 teams in the NFL. How difficult is it to know the basic philosophy and expectations of each team's offense? I could learn any one within an hour on Google. This NBC reporter just grabbed a Kubiak quote and half-assed his paycheck for the weekend.

Absolutely! Rep coming at ya!

BullNation4Life
10-01-2013, 11:01 AM
What is funny in all of this is the fact some of you are surprised about Schaub not being able to audible at the line. This info has been know for at least 5 years now.

As Schaub states, he has 2 plays he goes into the huddle with. The main play and a check down play. If one isn't there, he calls the check down. If the check down get sniffed out, he goes back to the original play. Hell I didn't even have to read the article to know that...

It is beyond stupid and sad and we as fans will most likely have to put up with it another 3 years or so...

That Colt bandwagon sure does look roomy and cozy....

burro
10-01-2013, 11:08 AM
Please, please, PUH-LEEZE tell me you aren't trying to compare the trials and tribulations of The Peyton to Matt Schaub. You absolutely can NOT make that comparison and to even bring something like that up is ludicrous. I would neither consider Manning nor Schaub "good" quarterbacks. The Peyton is probably the greatest QB of our time and the other is the complete polar opposite of that description. Good is somewhere in the middle.

Mr. Burro, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in on message board is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

It's too bad you feel that way, but it doesn't make it any less true that good QBs even "the best of our generation" (who is actually Tom Brady, but that's another thread) go through rough spells and recover. If Schaub doesn't then he isn't as good as I and others thought, if he does then we can all cease sh*tting ourselves.

Mr teX
10-01-2013, 11:15 AM
Doesn't excuse Schaub...he had a few options at his disposal within that play to not screw up....but it's like i've been telling everyone...this guy is as much the problem as Schaub is....removing 1 does not get us out of the woods of this mess we have right now.

Mr teX
10-01-2013, 11:22 AM
He doesn't read defenses well. He doesn't go through progressions well. He doesn't see wide open receivers well. Why would you not believe that he does not have the ability to recognize what play to call in an audible?

Sorry CnD...this is just one of your most garbage posts...You don't put up the numbers he has & not know how to do those things...

GNTLEWOLF
10-01-2013, 11:24 AM
Screw all the predetermined stuff; here's an option, call a timeout!:clap:
This cutesy we're smarter than you so we're not changing things based on what the defense gives you is ridiculous. Why attack a weakness? Instead, let's throw a high pressured pass in the direction of the best CB in the league.

This!!!!
He could have taken that option even after the WR went in motion. He could call time out any time before the ball is snapped. So if he was aware that the DB was gonna blitz, why not call a time out so he and the smartest coach in the NFL could re-think this bad play?

Tango
10-01-2013, 11:29 AM
If you think the media is about getting facts then yes, they may gave half assed it.

If you think the media is about generating a buzz and getting more views, then they totally nailed it.

If the news media is willing to "get the facts" but not able, then they are incompetent.
If they are able, but then not willing then they are liars.
If they are both willing and able (but yet don't report the facts), then why pretend to "get the facts"?
If they are neither willing or able, then why are they called the news media?

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 11:32 AM
good QBs even "the best of our generation" (who is actually Tom Brady, but that's another thread)

Peyton's coaches make Kubiak look like Jim Carey.


Brady has a guy nicknamed the Brain & has been caught cheating.

One guy has a coaching Tree that looks like an Alqueda network. The other guys tree looks like a dot.

Trail.Blazr
10-01-2013, 11:42 AM
It's too bad you feel that way, but it doesn't make it any less true that good QBs even "the best of our generation" (who is actually Tom Brady, but that's another thread) go through rough spells and recover. If Schaub doesn't then he isn't as good as I and others thought, if he does then we can all cease sh*tting ourselves.

I read this, and while I agree with what you are trying to say, I would counter with what your polar opposites in I and others think:

IF Schaub does recover, what does he recover to? I've seen enough in 7 years to know his ceiling is a borderline GREAT backup caliber QB or a mediocre starter, who has shown the ability to effectively manage a game for good stretches, but by no means has been the engine that makes the offense run. I've seen enough in the past 10 games he's started to have a reasonable expectation that his ceiling has already been realized and is in the rear view mirror.

You can put insert name here into the QB position and still see relative success from mediocrity given the complimenting players at RB, WR, TE and a decent OL. I give you Sage Rosenfels. no better, no worse than Schaub was. Just didn't have as long at the helm. I give you TJ Yates. again, we are in that fuzzy line of great backup/so so starter.

IMHO, you better load up on toilet paper, because I don't believe he's as good as he was, nor will be as good as you think he is.


gary: Get rid of the GIMP!

steelbtexan
10-01-2013, 11:44 AM
What is funny in all of this is the fact some of you are surprised about Schaub not being able to audible at the line. This info has been know for at least 5 years now.

As Schaub states, he has 2 plays he goes into the huddle with. The main play and a check down play. If one isn't there, he calls the check down. If the check down get sniffed out, he goes back to the original play. Hell I didn't even have to read the article to know that...

It is beyond stupid and sad and we as fans will most likely have to put up with it another 3 years or so...

That Colt bandwagon sure does look roomy and cozy....

Yep,

It's kinda sad that Gary doesn't trust and never has trusted his handpicked QB enough to let him audible at the LOS. Gary has typical Aggie control issues.

steelbtexan
10-01-2013, 11:50 AM
Absolutely! Rep coming at ya!

How many Rep pts would that be? LOL

I just repped you

Welcome to the MB.

infantrycak
10-01-2013, 11:56 AM
You can put insert name here into the QB position and still see relative success from mediocrity given the complimenting players at RB, WR, TE and a decent OL. I give you Sage Rosenfels. no better, no worse than Schaub was. Just didn't have as long at the helm. I give you TJ Yates. again, we are in that fuzzy line of great backup/so so starter.

Sage is not equivalent to Schaub. If you had his performance in his best years, which were with the Texans, you get 2 more INTs than Schaub in this his worst year or you get 2 less TDs - take your pick. Sage was a 1 TD for 1 INT guy (TJ hasn't even been that good at 1 TD for 1.5 INTs).

Porky
10-01-2013, 11:57 AM
No, they said most blitzed. I heard it as well & had a flash back to the Carr era. :eek:

I also heard most blitzed and I'm 99.9% sure that was what they said.

Rey
10-01-2013, 12:09 PM
LOL @ not being able to audible once they send a player in motion. That is dumb and weird.

Textan
10-01-2013, 12:21 PM
Yea, I wish. The jig is up on Kubiak.


Predictable, routined. Kubiak was simply out-coached on that play.

The guys on 790's thoughts on that play at 45:53
I agree with you 100%.
By the Grace of the Football Gods does Kubiak pull off a win. How many years have we said his play calling, his decisions are overly predictable?
We've called it overly conservative many times, but I like what the guy's on 790 call it "tendencies".
No creativity or thinking outside of the box gives you a Kubiak coach.
The talent's always been there.

Rey
10-01-2013, 12:26 PM
I read this, and while I agree with what you are trying to say, I would counter with what your polar opposites in I and others think:

IF Schaub does recover, what does he recover to? I've seen enough in 7 years to know his ceiling is a borderline GREAT backup caliber QB or a mediocre starter, who has shown the ability to effectively manage a game for good stretches, but by no means has been the engine that makes the offense run. I've seen enough in the past 10 games he's started to have a reasonable expectation that his ceiling has already been realized and is in the rear view mirror.

You can put insert name here into the QB position and still see relative success from mediocrity given the complimenting players at RB, WR, TE and a decent OL. I give you Sage Rosenfels. no better, no worse than Schaub was. Just didn't have as long at the helm. I give you TJ Yates. again, we are in that fuzzy line of great backup/so so starter.

IMHO, you better load up on toilet paper, because I don't believe he's as good as he was, nor will be as good as you think he is.


gary: Get rid of the GIMP!


Agreed.

Only difference is that Schaub has had more opportunities and more grooming. Honestly I felt we should've let sage be a stop gap and drafted a qb in the first round when we got a chance to.

Both were upgrades over Carr and if someone wants to argue Matt was better than Sage...ok, but I don't feel he was so much better that he has been worth the 2 2nds plus the contracts. Sage, a cheaper contract, keeping those 2 2nds and maybe having traded for a good young QB by now sounds a lot better in hindsight.

HOU-TEX
10-01-2013, 12:30 PM
Doesn't excuse Schaub...he had a few options at his disposal within that play to not screw up....but it's like i've been telling everyone...this guy is as much the problem as Schaub is....removing 1 does not get us out of the woods of this mess we have right now.

I'm definitely not excusing him. I even saw the DB was going to come on the blitz. I yelled (scared the crap out of my dog) once I noticed the fake hand off and Schaub turn to begin the boot. I still put a majority of the blame on Schaub even though Kubiak's a dictator when it comes to his scheme. Call a TO, run it (lol) or spike it.

Just piggy-backing on your post, tex

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 12:43 PM
Agreed.

Only difference is that Schaub has had more opportunities and more grooming. Honestly I felt we should've let sage be a stop gap and drafted a qb in the first round when we got a chance to.

Both were upgrades over Carr and if someone wants to argue Matt was better than Sage...ok, but I don't feel he was so much better that he has been worth the 2 2nds plus the contracts. Sage, a cheaper contract, keeping those 2 2nds and maybe having traded for a good young QB by now sounds a lot better in hindsight.

I'm 100% with you on this one. I had no idea who Matt Schaub was except for a few blurbs regarding a game or two where he did "alright." I understand Vick was the golden child at the time, but they didn't spend 2 seconds on Matt. They found him in the third. If they can find a guy like that in the third, why couldn't we?

& while Sage had his flaws...... Kubiak was still in his grace period which lasted through 2010, why make a bold move like that? Granted, if Schaub would have came in & blew the doors off the NFL, fine. We could say that Kubiak saw greatness & made a shrewd move.

But now, we're talking about all his limitations. We've been talking about his limitations since 2008.

Had we rolled with Sage we could have drafted
Quin (22) Kolb (36), Beck (40), Stanton (43)
Flacco (18) Brohm (56) Flynn (209)
Freeman (17) McGee (101)

.... the argument sounded much better in my head.

Trail.Blazr
10-01-2013, 12:58 PM
Sage is not equivalent to Schaub. If you had his performance in his best years, which were with the Texans, you get 2 more INTs than Schaub in this his worst year or you get 2 less TDs - take your pick. Sage was a 1 TD for 1 INT guy (TJ hasn't even been that good at 1 TD for 1.5 INTs).

I agree they are not equivalent, but I do believe they had relative success.

As a Texan, Schaub's W/L is 62/59. Winning% .512
As a Texan, Sage's W/L is 10/11. Winning% .476

Given Schaub gets the lion share of 1st team reps in terms of preparation, etc.. the difference is insignificant. I don't believe either are/were great enough in that they will carry a team.

Recent history, again, suggests that Schaub's best years are behind him.

Gary: Get rid of the GIMP!

Double Barrel
10-01-2013, 01:02 PM
modern day offensive coaching guru has a system where one can't change the play in a bad situation. Brilliant stuff. La Porte HS QB's have a better system than this for being in a bad play.

I have little doubt that this Fisher Price approach to playcalling/offensive scheme is ultimately going to prevent great things with this team.


It's also very tempting for the defense to blitz when the QB rarely checks out of the play.

I'm in no way absolving Schaub's responsibility for this mistake. But it was a "very,very poor play" call. The defense is not going to crash inside looking for a run on 3rd and 4. They're thinking pass. No one went for the fake as a top defense shouldn't. Schaub had no chance to make a positive play. All he could do was make the least negative play. Which would have been to curl into a ball and take the gift sack. How does Kubiak pour over these plays all week and then during the game, then make a ridiculous call like that?

Sometimes it looks like the Smartest Man in the Stadium out thinks himself. I did not understand why they were not using the best one/two punch in the NFL to run down the clock and grind to a win. The lack of basic football logic with a typical ball-control coach is strange.

Playoffs
10-01-2013, 01:36 PM
Rosenfels: Don’t Blame Schaub, Blame The West Coast Sytem (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/10/01/dont-blame-schaub-blame-the-west-coast-sytem/)

Former Texan QB Sage Rosenfels joins MaD Radio to discuss how much control Matt Schaub has over the offense. Can he audible? Why don’t we see more audibles? Is it that Matt Schaub just can’t handle it or is there something more going on?

Double Barrel
10-01-2013, 01:39 PM
Rosenfels: Don’t Blame Schaub, Blame The West Coast Sytem (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/10/01/dont-blame-schaub-blame-the-west-coast-sytem/)

That's an interesting take considering how many championships have been won with the WCO.

Perhaps the Fisher Price version implemented by Kubiak is the root problem.

2012Champs
10-01-2013, 01:41 PM
Schaub may not be guilty of everything here, but there is no denying that he has missed wide open receivers dating back to last season and made some dumb ass throws. Don't go sainting Schaub just yet. He has more than enough culpability for his poor play in 2012 and 2013.



Im pretty sure all who play QB in the nfl make dumb throws and miss open receivers as well. This is not some rare occurance that we are only seeing

Vinny
10-01-2013, 01:42 PM
Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said there's no correlation between Tate's fumble and going exclusively with Arian Foster at running back late in Sunday's loss to Seattle, the Houston Chronicle reports.
Here is some more BS from our HC. Ben Tate has 62 fewer yards than Arian Foster on 42 fewer carries.

http://fantasy.nfl.com/players/card?leagueId=2025226&playerId=497208

Tango
10-01-2013, 01:53 PM
How many Rep pts would that be? LOL

I just repped you

Welcome to the MB.

Lol, thanks. I've been lurking here a long time. I just don't post much.

burro
10-01-2013, 02:01 PM
I read this, and while I agree with what you are trying to say, I would counter with what your polar opposites in I and others think:

IF Schaub does recover, what does he recover to? I've seen enough in 7 years to know his ceiling is a borderline GREAT backup caliber QB or a mediocre starter, who has shown the ability to effectively manage a game for good stretches, but by no means has been the engine that makes the offense run. I've seen enough in the past 10 games he's started to have a reasonable expectation that his ceiling has already been realized and is in the rear view mirror.

You can put insert name here into the QB position and still see relative success from mediocrity given the complimenting players at RB, WR, TE and a decent OL. I give you Sage Rosenfels. no better, no worse than Schaub was. Just didn't have as long at the helm. I give you TJ Yates. again, we are in that fuzzy line of great backup/so so starter.

IMHO, you better load up on toilet paper, because I don't believe he's as good as he was, nor will be as good as you think he is.


gary: Get rid of the GIMP!

I would argue that Schaub at his best, 2009-2011 for reference, is above average or at least good enough to get us through the playoffs. People rag on stats, but you don't put up the sorts of numbers he did in those seasons without playing good football. In fact, I still believe that we are in the SB in 2011 if he was under center for the playoffs.

That said, I'm not arguing that he has another 5+ years in the tank and will retire a Texan with multiple rings. We do need to address the QB situation for the future, but he's our best chance for now and that it's a better chance than people think if he gets back to form.

FuzzyLogic
10-01-2013, 02:17 PM
Not making excuses for Schaub, I don't believe he is the answer at QB anymore than most of the posts I have read here. One thing I would like to point out though, is why he gets all of the blame? Shouldn't OD have been more aggressive in that play? Notice it was blown and try and make a play for his QB? He lets Sherman knock him off the ball (and onto his butt). I didn't see a whole lot of fight there from OD.

Showtime100
10-01-2013, 02:20 PM
Screw all the predetermined stuff; here's an option, call a timeout!


But...but...but...when Schaub looked, calling a time out wasn't on the list. :D

2012Champs
10-01-2013, 02:20 PM
Not making excuses for Schaub, I don't believe he is the answer at QB anymore than most of the posts I have read here. One thing I would like to point out though, is why he gets all of the blame? Shouldn't OD have been more aggressive in that play? Notice it was blown and try and make a play for his QB? He lets Sherman knock him off the ball (and onto his butt). I didn't see a whole lot of fight there from OD.



First the ball should have never been thrown or if thrown is should have been yards short of both players. Second was it OD who was the target of a previous pick 6 where it appeared as though he gave up? I think it was a TE just cant remember if it was OD

2012Champs
10-01-2013, 02:22 PM
have you read sherman's quotes about the play? that should give you your answer.



I heard sherman so tell the class what anything he said has to do with what OD can or cant do

Trail.Blazr
10-01-2013, 02:29 PM
I would argue that Schaub at his best, 2009-2011 for reference, is above average or at least good enough to get us through the playoffs. People rag on stats, but you don't put up the sorts of numbers he did in those seasons without playing good football. In fact, I still believe that we are in the SB in 2011 if he was under center for the playoffs.

That said, I'm not arguing that he has another 5+ years in the tank and will retire a Texan with multiple rings. We do need to address the QB situation for the future, but he's our best chance for now and that it's a better chance than people think if he gets back to form.

Agreed with at his best 2009-2011 and the multiple rings part. He's not our best chance for now. He's a proven liability when pressured in the pocket. Our line is adding to his liability and it's high time Kubiak realizes the need to put someone back there that can actually withstand slight pressure on a regular basis.

It's almost as if Kubiak sees Schaub as an extension of himself and is too proud to take himself out of a game he's been out of already since 1983.

Playoffs
10-01-2013, 03:15 PM
That's an interesting take considering how many championships have been won with the WCO.

Perhaps the Fisher Price version implemented by Kubiak is the root problem.
It was, as characterized by both Kubiak and Tim Hasselbeck, a very, very poor play call & formation.

The best outcome was taking a sack. Matt should have tucked & ducked.

badboy
10-01-2013, 03:28 PM
Does it really matter what fans think? Is MS going to continue as starting QB and I say he will.

FuzzyLogic
10-01-2013, 03:33 PM
I believe I said I'm not making excuses for Schaub, and I don't think he is our long term option. I am however pointing out that does the problem go further than just Schaub?

have you read sherman's quotes about the play? that should give you your answer.

Yes I read Sherman's quote about the play (and I think you may be referring to the quote from Earl Thomas where he states the DC knew what the play was going to be and called the right defense for it). Not sure of the point though... I'm sure in most games the defense guesses right and calls the perfect play to counter multiple times and sometimes it works and sometimes the offense still wins the play.

First the ball should have never been thrown or if thrown is should have been yards short of both players. Second was it OD who was the target of a previous pick 6 where it appeared as though he gave up? I think it was a TE just cant remember if it was OD

You are correct the ball should have never been thrown, and that is on Kubiak and Schaub. But in fact it was thrown and regardless of whose fault that was, there was a live ball in the air and OD was out fought for it. Sherman it seemed wanted the ball more than our player. That is a problem.

No different than when a RB fumbles... you don't expect the other guys on the team to dive for the ball, because it wasn't their fault?

I'm just saying if the end result of the play was different, and OD out fights Sherman for the ball spins and runs for 10 yards, are we then on here praising the miraculous play that Schaub and OD pulled off?

Sometimes you make your own luck, I see passes thrown every week that should never have been thrown and a down right amazing catch by the receiver is needed.

I would love a more mobile QB and would like to see what either Yates or Keenum can do. But all the players need to play like it is 4th and goal with 2 seconds remaining in the Super Bowl, which is give everything they have, no mistakes, get the job done.

WolverineFan
10-01-2013, 03:45 PM
Yes I read Sherman's quote about the play (and I think you may be referring to the quote from Earl Thomas where he states the DC knew what the play was going to be and called the right defense for it). Not sure of the point though... I'm sure in most games the defense guesses right and calls the perfect play to counter multiple times and sometimes it works and sometimes the offense still wins the play.

This is not surprising because Kubiak always tends to run playaction and bootlegs on 3rd & short. He thinks he's a genius because he's breaking tendency from what most teams do. What he doesn't understand is that defenses have figured out his tendencies and they know he's going to throw the ball on 3rd & short. He always does. He's not tricking anyone anymore except for himself.

noxiousdog
10-01-2013, 04:25 PM
This is not surprising because Kubiak always tends to run playaction and bootlegs on 3rd & short. He thinks he's a genius because he's breaking tendency from what most teams do. What he doesn't understand is that defenses have figured out his tendencies and they know he's going to throw the ball on 3rd & short. He always does. He's not tricking anyone anymore except for himself.

I've heard this a lot, but I'd like to see the actual breakdown. Does any one have access to that?

Also, playaction seems like something you'd want to do in that situation if you're you're going to pass. The run is much more believable. The bootleg depends on how hard they've been biting on the playaction.

76Texan
10-01-2013, 05:12 PM
I've heard this a lot, but I'd like to see the actual breakdown. Does any one have access to that?

Also, playaction seems like something you'd want to do in that situation if you're you're going to pass. The run is much more believable. The bootleg depends on how hard they've been biting on the playaction.

There are a lot of misconceptions out there.
There's no real tendency in the Texans' offensive play call.
I do not keep continuous records of what they do; I have a lot of notes scattered throughout the six or seven hard drives that I have; I never had the chance to tie them up together.

All I can say is that there has been no significant bad tendencies in what the Texans have been doing offensively under Kubiak.

Yes, there are a few things that they do more often in certain situations, downs and distances, but they have been successful at those, I don't see a need to change in those instances.

The bottom line is that Schaub needs to play better; moreover, he needs to minimize crucial mistakes.

WolverineFan
10-01-2013, 05:19 PM
I've heard this a lot, but I'd like to see the actual breakdown. Does any one have access to that?

Also, playaction seems like something you'd want to do in that situation if you're you're going to pass. The run is much more believable. The bootleg depends on how hard they've been biting on the playaction.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I would say his tendency to throw on 3rd & short is much higher than any non-spread passing team (Saints, Pats, etc.).

And if you're going to pass on that down then yes, you want to run playaction. The problem is it's 3rd & 2 and you're throwing the ball. He always does this. We're averaging 4 yards per carry on the day and he's throwing the ball on 3rd & 2.......

76Texan
10-01-2013, 06:03 PM
It was, as characterized by both Kubiak and Tim Hasselbeck, a very, very poor play call & formation.

The best outcome was taking a sack. Matt should have tucked & ducked.

I'm just going to piggy back on your post, even though it doesn't have much to do with the gist of what I like to say.

There's never anything wrong about formation.
As an offense, I would think that you can line up in any formation of your choosing; ie. as an offense, you're supposed to dictate the play.

But you (I mean the offense) also wants to be able to counter the D call.
Out of the same formation (even before motion, if there's any), an offense can run several different plays.
From studying playbooks of various teams, I would call them a series of plays from the same formation (however, coaches often refer to this as a play, let's say 18-19 Strong).
What I'm referring to here, if I may bring up a loss to the Jags a few years ago.
The report was that the Jags beat us with only five or six plays; it should be termed as five or six "series" of plays.

At any rate, I think I'm not doing a very good job to convey my thoughts here.
It's probably best for me to get back to the main points.

On that particular interception, the Texans were in 21 personnel (offset I, TE strong left (Graham), slot right, TE flex wide right (OD).
Then, they motioned the flex TE OD to the slot.

The Seahawks showed zone all the way (it should become clearer later).

When Schaub walks to the LOS, the call was a bootleg weak side (to the right).
However, Schaub had the choice to check into a run play (whether strong side left, or weak side right). This is the "built-in" audible.

IMO, Schaub should have checked into a run strong side left where the Texans had advantage in blocking in the zone scheme.
That's the best percentage play on third and 4, whether it works out or not.
You have an extra blocker, you should be able to gain four.

The Seahawks bought that, too.
The LBs were playing the run hard on the run blitz.

Regardless, it was Schaub's decision there at the line.
He felt like the Hawks would bite the run fake (and they did), so he took it upon himself.
It would have worked if Schaub is a little smarter or can be a little more mobile on his throw.

If he was quick wit and having a greater vision, he could have floated the ball to Graham who was wide open in the money on a slant. Graham was running into empty space in a zone that had the LBs committed to the run blitz.
That was Schaub's easiest read and throw.

As a QB, you expect the blitz to come on the right side; you watch the ILB, if he bought the fake (which he did), throw the damn ball to the crossing TE (Graham).

Or Schaub could have juts thrown the ball to the inside of OD, with the CB to the outside. Schaub threw the ball to the defender instead.

I do not want that type of QBacking on my team.

Goatcheese
10-01-2013, 07:00 PM
I'm embarrassed to be part of such an ignorant fan base.

Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 07:08 PM
Yes I read Sherman's quote about the play (and I think you may be referring to the quote from Earl Thomas where he states the DC knew what the play was going to be and called the right defense for it). Not sure of the point though... I'm sure in most games the defense guesses right and calls the perfect play to counter multiple times and sometimes it works and sometimes the offense still wins the play.


Exactly. Anyone harping on Kubiak being more predictable than any other coach is just hating. We shut the Seahawks down for 3 qtrs of the game. Part of that is that we're just that much better than them. Some of it is that they were missing three OL starters, & still credit goes to our coaches being able to break down their tendencies.

Kubiak & Schaub were able to put Four Hundred & Seventy some odd yards on the #1 defense in the league, knocking them out of the top 5 because they "knew" what the defense was trying to do & when.

Screwed the pooch on that particular play.... but that's what tape is all about, that's why they "study" that's why they break down film.

dtran04
10-01-2013, 07:09 PM
Hell, the Seahawks didn't run many successful plays on offense the entire game. It was Wilson scrambling around after the play failed.

THAT team would be dangerous as hell running the flawed Kubiak offense.

EllisUnit
10-01-2013, 07:13 PM
Wonder how many plays Manning cant check out of LOL not saying Schaub is smart enough to call a play to exploit the defense if he sees something like manning, but we will never know.

htownfan32
10-01-2013, 07:16 PM
I'm embarrassed to be part of such an ignorant fan base.

Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?

This. Kubes ain't the problem. It's not 100% Schaub either, but most of it is. A more competent executor of the plan Kubes draws up would go a long way towards helping us get to where we want to be.

bOODRO87
10-01-2013, 07:17 PM
I'm embarrassed to be part of such an ignorant fan base.

Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?

We actually played football for the first half. Then we remembered this is Gary Kubiak Texan Football and we scored a big whopping 0 points in the 2nd half. We have been 4-6 since we got the chance to take HFA last year. We scored 0 points against the Patriots in the 3rd quarter when our defense made the game winnable. Zero TD's against the Ravens. I'm seeing a trend and I don't know about you, but that does not pass the eye test.

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 07:21 PM
...just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?


This is what's getting me. Schaub & Andre owned Richard Sherman... damn near all day.

One play. One play....

I think it was an amazing play

But one play & he's the best CB in the game...... blah!!

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 07:26 PM
"Oh, yes, and one more thing, dear Lord, about our enemies, ignore their heathen prayers and help us blow those little bastards straight to Hell. Amen."

Texans will beat NE in the AFC Championship.



Love the sig

MSR

Scooter
10-01-2013, 07:30 PM
what's not being talked about is that, as sherman said, that's a play we like to run. shouldn't schaub have a better understanding of the play and the situation? the high point with schaub is supposed to be his grasp of the playbook and timing, shouldn't he have recognized that it was flawed at the snap? it's a play we like because it's a play that works. obviously we should've run the ball that time, but as kubiak said "we wanted to stay aggressive" and of course you want to do that with one of your better plays.

i dont hate the playcall. i dont particularly like it, but had we gotten stuffed half of the fans would be saying "typical kubiak going into turtle mode".

it reminds me a lot of rosencopter. similarly i thought that was a great playcall that the quarterback fubar'd. had sage any sense he would've eaten the ball or thrown it away, and played the situation as a competent quarterback should. same as schaub, eat it or throw it away as any competent quarterback should.

bOODRO87
10-01-2013, 07:31 PM
This is what's getting me. Schaub & Andre owned Richard Sherman... damn near all day.

One play. One play....

I think it was an amazing play

But one play & he's the best CB in the game...... blah!!

Have you seen how long the ball is in the air when Schaub throws? Is there some kind of measurement of air time x yards thrown because Schaub has got to be KING of that. That was one of the worst throws he's ever made. Thrown into the Bermuda Triangle of 3 defenders just waiting. It took effort for Sherman to rip it away, but it was practically thrown up for grabs.

Brisco_County
10-01-2013, 07:36 PM
Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?

Thank you for pointing this out. Kubiak's system is highly effective, and is flawed no worse than any other system in the league. And Kubiak's playcalling isn't even much worse than any other coach's. The stats speak to that. Also, the elimination of the audible shifts responsibility to the receivers, who then provide the quarterback with alternatives to the original play call. That's why this system demands so much commitment from the receivers, and why the audibling is "built in" as Chris Myers described it.

Every coach calls plays that get predicted and busted in every game. The solution is fielding players who can make something out of nothing. That is what this system currently needs at the QB position to complement it. When an intuitive and quick QB can avoid negative yards, thus keeping this WCO on schedule, it can dominate and win championships.

EllisUnit
10-01-2013, 07:41 PM
Love the sig

MSR

;) !

Brisco_County
10-01-2013, 07:54 PM
As ObsiWan just informed me, people keep forgetting this part:

Myers: “I’m not going to explain how we handle audibling at the line, but nice try there. That’s the way it works in the NFL. Some teams and some quarterbacks are given that opportunity because there teams offenses are based upon them going to the line and having six different plays possible then they just give the line and the rest of offense what they are going to do. In our scheme, Matt doesn’t necessarily have to do that all the time. You guys may not notice, but we audible a lot. You guys may not notice and talk about it all the time because you guys don’t notice it. It’s one of the things that come with the territory. It’s a smooth transition for us with the zone blocking scheme and with the rollouts that we have that Matt’s been able to run. We don’t have to audible as much because we have the potential for other things to happen. Our audibles aren’t the same as other teams, but we get it done just as much as they do. Everyone talking about how they need to put more pressure on Matt and how he needs to take on more of the offense. It’s there, you guys just don’t notice.”

Schaub: “If I explain what we do too much, then other teams are understanding it too. We’re glad that no one out there really knows what we’re doing. We do have a built-in system but it’s something that we do at the line of scrimmage that is not as dramatic as some teams do. We do it about 30 percent of the game. We have two or maybe three plays at the line of scrimmage and then we go from there. It’s all based on what the defense is doing. Sometimes it’s run to run, run to pass, it can be any one of those things, but it’s all predicated on the defense.”

I just posted this two pages ago, yet the conversation is continuing under the assumption that traditional audibling is superior because it unlocks a more versitile passing offense. I contend that this system makes the Texans a better road team since it reduces the impact of crowd noise.

infantrycak
10-01-2013, 08:02 PM
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I would say his tendency to throw on 3rd & short is much higher than any non-spread passing team (Saints, Pats, etc.).

And if you're going to pass on that down then yes, you want to run playaction. The problem is it's 3rd & 2 and you're throwing the ball. He always does this. We're averaging 4 yards per carry on the day and he's throwing the ball on 3rd & 2.......

It was 3rd and 4 not 3rd and 2.

The closest split is 3rd and 3-7. As a % of their passes:

Schaub 11.4%
Brady 10.2%
Brees 12.5%
Flacco 11.5%
Rodgers 12.3%
Manning 13.2%

Not seeing the Texans as an outlier.

EllisUnit
10-01-2013, 08:32 PM
As ObsiWan just informed me, people keep forgetting this part:



I just posted this two pages ago, yet the conversation is continuing under the assumption that traditional audibling is superior because it unlocks a more versitile passing offense. I contend that this system makes the Texans a better road team since it reduces the impact of crowd noise.

Yes it is a like audible system, but it is still all pre determined, nothing like whn manning see's one on one coverage with no safety help, and he switches it to a deep route and hits his man for a long TD for example.

They have pre set plays they can change to yeah, but they can not pick any play from the play book to best suit the situation, not to mention i seriously doubt there is any plays that the mannings, Rogers etc cant check out of.

Its still a leash on Schaub no matter how you put it.

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 09:19 PM
Yes it is a like audible system, but it is still all pre determined, nothing like whn manning see's one on one coverage with no safety help, and he switches it to a deep route and hits his man for a long TD for example.

They have pre set plays they can change to yeah, but they can not pick any play from the play book to best suit the situation, not to mention i seriously doubt there is any plays that the mannings, Rogers etc cant check out of.

Its still a leash on Schaub no matter how you put it.

So you think Schaub can be as good as Rodgers, or Manning?


If not, why is this even an issue? We're one of the better offenses in the league, year in & year out. If it's not broke....

EllisUnit
10-01-2013, 09:22 PM
So you think Schaub can be as good as Rodgers, or Manning?


If not, why is this even an issue? We're one of the better offenses in the league, year in & year out. If it's not broke....

NO thats why i said we dont know if he could do it or not in a few posts ago. And lately it has had some pretty bad kinks, that need fixing.

SchaubApologist
10-01-2013, 09:32 PM
So you think Schaub can be as good as Rodgers, or Manning?


If not, why is this even an issue? We're one of the better offenses in the league, year in & year out. If it's not broke....

If our offense requires no more than a game manager to be effective, why on earth did we pay Matt Schaub 60+ million?

Kubiak's offense is extremely QB friendly. Not complex if you know X's and O's.

I might get KILLED for saying this, but a cheap Mark Sanchez could be effective in this system next year as we season a rookie qb.

infantrycak
10-01-2013, 09:58 PM
If our offense requires no more than a game manager to be effective, why on earth did we pay Matt Schaub 60+ million?

Because a more than game maker costs $100+ million.

Kubiak's offense is extremely QB friendly. Not complex if you know X's and O's.

I might get KILLED for saying this, but a cheap Mark Sanchez could be effective in this system next year as we season a rookie qb.

QB friendly and simple are not the same thing.

Your Mark Sanchez comment throws all your opinions on Schaub out the window.

Say Watt
10-01-2013, 10:00 PM
Please, please, PUH-LEEZE tell me you aren't trying to compare the trials and tribulations of The Peyton to Matt Schaub. You absolutely can NOT make that comparison and to even bring something like that up is ludicrous. I would neither consider Manning nor Schaub "good" quarterbacks. The Peyton is probably the greatest QB of our time and the other is the complete polar opposite of that description. Good is somewhere in the middle.

Mr. Burro, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in on message board is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Yes! Excellent response, but even better usage of the Billy Madison debate speech. Awesome!

Schaub is a better than average QB. He will never be a great QB. He could possibly become a Super Bowl wining QB but to do that, he needs to be surrounded by a Hall of Fame defense. The 2000 Ravens with Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson with Tampa Bay both had some of the greatest defenses to ever play the game. This is the case with most if not all of the average to slightly above average QBs that have won the big game.

That said, I still don't see the Texans winning anything with Gary Kubiak. The guy is just too conservative and too controlling to win at the highest level. I will never give up on the Texans, but I do believe I have given up on Gary Kubiak. Combine him with Matt Schaub, and I just have to be realistic.

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 10:14 PM
If our offense requires no more than a game manager to be effective, why on earth did we pay Matt Schaub 60+ million?


If our system required no more than a game manager we wouldn't have. David Carr would still be here.

EllisUnit
10-01-2013, 10:17 PM
I might get KILLED for saying this, but a cheap Mark Sanchez could be effective in this system next year as we season a rookie qb.

Get the **** out of here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can come back when you learn to keep that mouth clean of sin !

burro
10-01-2013, 10:33 PM
Agreed with at his best 2009-2011 and the multiple rings part. He's not our best chance for now. He's a proven liability when pressured in the pocket. Our line is adding to his liability and it's high time Kubiak realizes the need to put someone back there that can actually withstand slight pressure on a regular basis.

It's almost as if Kubiak sees Schaub as an extension of himself and is too proud to take himself out of a game he's been out of already since 1983.

To say he's not our best chance at getting to a SB is to say that there is something better available. Yates is a known quantity, not an improvement. Do we make the big move for Josh Freeman (who apparently takes prescription amphetamines, presumably for ADD...explaining a lot about him). VY is available! Any takers? Didn't think so. What about a second shot for Matt Hot Tub? Or better still, why not hire Jamarcus Russell? He can just eat the opposing defenses. Or not. There's room for a Carr joke too, but even I'm not that morbid.

That leaves only Keenum as a semi-legitimate option if you pull Scahub, and that's a Hail Mary, a Hail Mary we don't need to throw 4 games into the season.

I do agree with the last part though, Schaub and Kubiak are a set...their wagons are hitched together. If Schaub is a failure, so is Kubiak. It makes sense that Kubiak wouldn't want to bench him. If he does, he's essntially waving the white flag on his era in Houston.

houstonspartan
10-01-2013, 10:35 PM
I'm embarrassed to be part of such an ignorant fan base.

Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?

Sigh. Goatcheese is back to his "let's give Kubiak a lifetime extension, and never hold him accountable" nonsense.

The modern NFL really only takes 4, maybe 5 years to turn a team around and win a Super Bowl. Yet, Kubiak is on year 8, and it's ok?

If you really want to see ignorant, grab a mirror.

Good grief.

burro
10-01-2013, 10:45 PM
Sigh. Goatcheese is back to his "let's give Kubiak a lifetime extension, and never hold him accountable" nonsense.

The modern NFL really only takes 4, maybe 5 years to turn a team around and win a Super Bowl. Yet, Kubiak is on year 8, and it's ok?

If you really want to see ignorant, grab a mirror.

Good grief.

That's a bit of an over generalization. Building a team into a contender in 4-5 years is doable, but 'SB in 5 or GTFO' is nonsense. Bill Cowher was HC for 11 years until he reached that second SB and won, if you're only counting wins - 15 years before a SB win.

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 10:48 PM
I do agree with the last part though, Schaub and Kubiak are a set...their wagons are hitched together. If Schaub is a failure, so is Kubiak. It makes sense that Kubiak wouldn't want to bench him. If he does, he's essntially waving the white flag on his era in Houston.

Kubiak's had plenty of opportunities to unhitch that wagon. The foot injury was a great one. That 3rd pick six, the 6th INT in 4 games would have been a good one as well.

Kubiak can cut that cord just as easily as Rick Smith cut his. When Schaub screws up, put that right where it belongs. As long as he continues to fall on the sword for Schaub, he's reaffirming his vows.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that Kubiak can divorce himself from Schaub at anytime. But he's making a conscious decision to make sure we all know where he stands.

I would think McNair would understand the dangers of getting too attached to a player, any player, after the David Carr experience.

busterspencer
10-01-2013, 10:53 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/30/kubiak-schaub-couldnt-audible-out-of-very-very-poor-play/

I am not sure it is mistrust.. I think it is Kube wanting to run the whole show and I love Kube but he has to give his QB some discretion.

busterspencer
10-01-2013, 10:57 PM
Kubiak's had plenty of opportunities to unhitch that wagon. The foot injury was a great one. That 3rd pick six, the 6th INT in 4 games would have been a good one as well.

Kubiak can cut that cord just as easily as Rick Smith cut his. When Schaub screws up, put that right where it belongs. As long as he continues to fall on the sword for Schaub, he's reaffirming his vows.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that Kubiak can divorce himself from Schaub at anytime. But he's making a conscious decision to make sure we all know where he stands.

I would think McNair would understand the dangers of getting too attached to a player, any player, after the David Carr experience.
I think Kube is too quick to take the blame for some of his players. It just happens so often that it seems fake. I wonder what Smith and McNair are hearing...Maybe alot different than what we are hearing...

htownfan32
10-01-2013, 11:11 PM
Kubiak's had plenty of opportunities to unhitch that wagon. The foot injury was a great one. That 3rd pick six, the 6th INT in 4 games would have been a good one as well.

Kubiak can cut that cord just as easily as Rick Smith cut his. When Schaub screws up, put that right where it belongs. As long as he continues to fall on the sword for Schaub, he's reaffirming his vows.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that Kubiak can divorce himself from Schaub at anytime. But he's making a conscious decision to make sure we all know where he stands.

I would think McNair would understand the dangers of getting too attached to a player, any player, after the David Carr experience.

Because like it or not, Kubes is a steady guy who doesn't pander to the whims of a fanbase suffering from multiple personality disorder. Hell, I get madder and start talking nonsense more than I have a right to on my own. He's not gonna drop Schaub, and if he does at all it will be, barring some extreme circumstance like a 7 interception game, at the end of the season. And even though the angry part of me is calling for the benching of Schaub, deep down I know Kubes is right. Schaub is a known quantity, even if he has been crappy lately.

However, you can bet good money Rick Smith is taking a good look at the QB draft class of 2013. Kubes might be the good old Coach, but our GM has nerves of ice and won't hesitate to axe anyone who's standing in the way of this team's goal.

SchaubApologist
10-01-2013, 11:11 PM
Get the **** out of here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can come back when you learn to keep that mouth clean of sin !

HAHA!

I knew my idea would not go over well.

But, if we can get Sanchez on a 1 year vet minimum contract, cut Matt Schaub, and draft a QB in the 1st round... I think that's a viable plan.

If Kubiak is a QB guru as everybody claims, he can make it work.

Let's compare Sanchez VS Schaub

Accuracy: Sanchez
Arm Strength: Sanchez
Decision Making: Even
Mobility: Sanchez
Pocket Presence: Sanchez
Leadership: Schaub
Experience: Schaub

Lets-Do-This

Lucky
10-01-2013, 11:21 PM
Butt Fumbles: Sanchez
GQ Photo Shoots: Sanchez
Hair Bands: Sanchez

Need I say more?

Lurvinator11
10-01-2013, 11:36 PM
HAHA!

I knew my idea would not go over well.

But, if we can get Sanchez on a 1 year vet minimum contract, cut Matt Schaub, and draft a QB in the 1st round... I think that's a viable plan.

If Kubiak is a QB guru as everybody claims, he can make it work.

Let's compare Sanchez VS Schaub

Accuracy: Sanchez
Arm Strength: Sanchez
Decision Making: Even
Mobility: Sanchez
Pocket Presence: Sanchez
Leadership: Schaub
Experience: Schaub

Lets-Do-This

2013 IR: Sanchez

burro
10-02-2013, 12:25 AM
Kubiak's had plenty of opportunities to unhitch that wagon. The foot injury was a great one. That 3rd pick six, the 6th INT in 4 games would have been a good one as well.

Kubiak can cut that cord just as easily as Rick Smith cut his. When Schaub screws up, put that right where it belongs. As long as he continues to fall on the sword for Schaub, he's reaffirming his vows.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that Kubiak can divorce himself from Schaub at anytime. But he's making a conscious decision to make sure we all know where he stands.

I would think McNair would understand the dangers of getting too attached to a player, any player, after the David Carr experience.

He could try to cut that cord, but who wouldn't see through it as a pressured CYA move? Kubiak loses the locker room when he decides to dump a guy he's invested a lot of time, confidence, and work into.

Who now, that we would have a realistic chance of signing or trading for, does Schaub get booted for? Who gives us a better chance of making the playoffs this year? Kubiak's job is to put the best players available on the field and utilize them properly in the game plan, as such he is stuck with Schaub until a better alternative emerges (it's not going to be this year).

leebigeztx
10-02-2013, 01:24 AM
He doesn't read defenses well. He doesn't go through progressions well. He doesn't see wide open receivers well. Why would you not believe that he does not have the ability to recognize what play to call in an audible?

Pretty much.That ball shouldn't have ever been thrown. Sherman didn't even run with andre. He just stood there in front of daniels and waited for schaub to serve up the int. Just like I said when they tried to blame hopkins on that pick 6 vs titans. Hopkins was reading the cb while schaub was predetermined where he was going. Had schaub read it right,hopkins would've had a bomb in the works. Instead,it was easy to blame the rookie.

infantrycak
10-02-2013, 01:31 AM
Just like I said when they tried to blame hopkins on that pick 6 vs titans. Hopkins was reading the cb while schaub was predetermined where he was going. Had schaub read it right,hopkins would've had a bomb in the works. Instead,it was easy to blame the rookie.

Who is they? The commentator immediately said Hopkins made the mistake.

Malloy
10-02-2013, 02:55 AM
Who is they? The commentator immediately said Hopkins made the mistake.

I think that was his point. Commentators blamed KHopkins, but actually it was Schaub.

thunderkyss
10-02-2013, 03:15 AM
I think Kube is too quick to take the blame for some of his players. It just happens so often that it seems fake. I wonder what Smith and McNair are hearing...Maybe alot different than what we are hearing...

I think there was a time for it. Back in '06-'09 they were a gelatinous goo... they needed a leader & all we had was Kubiak.

Right now, either Matt can take it or he can't. He doesn't need to be coddled.

By the way, it was great that Matt openly refuted Kubiak's 'it's on me' he owned up to it right after the game. But it makes you wonder what Kubiak thinks of Matt's fortitude.

EllisUnit
10-02-2013, 08:09 AM
HAHA!

I knew my idea would not go over well.

But, if we can get Sanchez on a 1 year vet minimum contract, cut Matt Schaub, and draft a QB in the 1st round... I think that's a viable plan.

If Kubiak is a QB guru as everybody claims, he can make it work.

Let's compare Sanchez VS Schaub

Accuracy: Sanchez
Arm Strength: Sanchez
Decision Making: Even
Mobility: Sanchez
Pocket Presence: Sanchez
Leadership: Schaub
Experience: Schaub

Lets-Do-This

Proof that this board is losing its mind lays in the post above people. Now dont blame him for his PSSD (Post Schaub Stress Disorder). I have seen many cases of this in the last week or so. The WHO and Texanstalk are trying to find a cure at this time but so far all test/ideals have failed.

Hang in there little buddy

Brisco_County
10-02-2013, 11:01 AM
I think that was his point. Commentators blamed KHopkins, but actually it was Schaub.

Kubiak put it on Schaub.

eriadoc
10-02-2013, 11:06 AM
There are a lot of misconceptions out there.
There's no real tendency in the Texans' offensive play call.

Well, there is at least one tendency.

Normal zone bootleg:

http://www.prodctr.com/lsimmons/pics/bootleg1.jpg

Schaub's bootleg:

http://www.prodctr.com/lsimmons/pics/bootleg2.jpg

Dread-Head
10-02-2013, 11:13 AM
:thinking: So...Schaub ISN'T the half wit I assumed him to be. Even if he recognizes some kind of jacked up defense on the horizon he CAN'T deviate from the order he's been given? Pardon me but What the Duck?!

Screw it, maybe Schaub aint the problem. Kubiak is blaming the guy HE hand picked and groomed when he won't let that same guy react to changes on the field? That's BULL ISHT! Terry Bradshaw said part of the reason he and the Steelers were successfull circa 1970 something was because he called his own plays. Take that freedom from you're QB and you get a team capable of making it to the play offs but not much further.

GoCoogs
10-02-2013, 11:27 AM
So it was a bad play call by the coach that was compounded by an even worse decision by the QB.

Porky
10-02-2013, 11:48 AM
Sage Rosenfels said yesterday that the lack of ability to audible is part and parcel of the west coast offense run by Kubiak. It's not just Schaub. Any QB Gary puts into this system is going to have the same limits. It's designed to be simple, and make the QB react quicker by not giving him as many things to read. You basically have a main option, and one check down option. That's it folks.

Anyone else starting to hate Kubiak and his west coast offense? I think at one time it was brilliant. That time was 1983.

We need a new direction, and Gary is too tied to his system imo.

Double Barrel
10-02-2013, 11:54 AM
I'm embarrassed to be part of such an ignorant fan base.

Kubiak runs one of the most complex offenses in the NFL and it's widely regarded by defensive players and coaches and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for. Considering the Texans are near the top of the league in offense basically every single year, how can any of you dispute that just because Seattle players orally stimulated their coach after guessing one play correctly?

If Kubiaggie Stupiak was so predictable and incompetent, why did his offense march up and down the field on the #1 defense in the NFL?

I'm not going to argue the bolded, but Sage Rosenfels was on the local radio after his retirement over the summer and basically said the exact opposite.

He said Kubiak's offense is a simplified version of the WCO, and audibles do not have the complexities of other offenses. He was praising it, not calling it out, and said Kubiak's offense is a QB's dream because it's not complicated.

As far as preparation by other defenses, I think that has more to do with personnel than anything else. This offense is from the Bill Walsh WCO tree, which has been a staple in the league for decades.

Just curious (not debate), where did you read that it's one of the most complex offenses and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for? I'm asking for my own education because a QB that was in the system for years has said something completely different.

Hopefully someone has a link to that Sage interview, because I'd like to hear it again to make sure I heard what I heard. There were some posters that talked about it, and I'm pretty sure they came away from the conversation with the same thing I did in the end.

****EDIT: I found it (I think): Kubiak’s Quarterback Has To Be The Best Player On The Field (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/08/19/kubiaks-quarterback-has-to-be-the-best-player-on-the-field/)

I'm going to listen again because I want to make sure I'm representing his perspective correctly.

Okay, already at the beginning: "I think he [Kubiak] has one of the easiest offenses to sort of understand and learn in a lot of different ways. He doesn't ask the quarterback to do a lot of changes at the mike declaration, the offensive line, with how they block with certain schemes."

So there is that, an experienced QB in this offense giving us insight.

Rey
10-02-2013, 03:09 PM
I'm not going to argue the bolded, but Sage Rosenfels was on the local radio after his retirement over the summer and basically said the exact opposite.

He said Kubiak's offense is a simplified version of the WCO, and audibles do not have the complexities of other offenses. He was praising it, not calling it out, and said Kubiak's offense is a QB's dream because it's not complicated.

As far as preparation by other defenses, I think that has more to do with personnel than anything else. This offense is from the Bill Walsh WCO tree, which has been a staple in the league for decades.

Just curious (not debate), where did you read that it's one of the most complex offenses and one of the most difficult schemes to prepare for? I'm asking for my own education because a QB that was in the system for years has said something completely different.

Hopefully someone has a link to that Sage interview, because I'd like to hear it again to make sure I heard what I heard. There were some posters that talked about it, and I'm pretty sure they came away from the conversation with the same thing I did in the end.

****EDIT: I found it (I think): Kubiak’s Quarterback Has To Be The Best Player On The Field (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/08/19/kubiaks-quarterback-has-to-be-the-best-player-on-the-field/)

I'm going to listen again because I want to make sure I'm representing his perspective correctly.

Okay, already at the beginning: "I think he [Kubiak] has one of the easiest offenses to sort of understand and learn in a lot of different ways. He doesn't ask the quarterback to do a lot of changes at the mike declaration, the offensive line, with how they block with certain schemes."

So there is that, an experienced QB in this offense giving us insight.

I'm pretty familiar with this offense.

I had been saying for a few years that it is very qb friendly because it doesn't ask him to do a whole lot regarding complex reads and calls on a snap to snap basis. Really, beyond that it's player friendly in general. So I don't want to just say Matt has it a bit easier. All those guys do. It makes it easier for WR's to get open, RB's don't have to be top physical specimens, OL don't have to be Joe Thomas. It's part of the reason I love this system. You don't have to be a freak player or a great, greàt player to be look like a star in this system. It's about trusting your steps, using excellent technique and play design.

But truly special players can take it to a whole different level. I'd say Andre is a prime example.

But you can find players that have a specific skill set you like that fits (lateral agility, good vision, ect ) and the system can help make up for some shortcoming(s) they might have.

Specifically regarding the qb, I think Schaub is one of these players that is made to look much better than he actually is. There really is nothing special or unique about his game where he could go beyond being good in this system and become special. The best we can hope for is that he improves his decision making because that's about the only thing he has had going for him.

But if you look at all the scrap heap guys we've had in here that have played well, and the fact that you normally have QB's playing better here than they have anywhere else....I think it becomes clear that the "system" isn't a problem.

Everyone wants to make excuses for Schaub because he's a good guy by all accounts, but the system didn't make him throw that pick six or any others. That was poor decision making.

But yeah, this system isn't all that complex in comparison to some others. Hard to stop though and that's the beauty of it all.

Sway
10-02-2013, 09:30 PM
Sage Rosenfels said yesterday that the lack of ability to audible is part and parcel of the west coast offense run by Kubiak. It's not just Schaub. Any QB Gary puts into this system is going to have the same limits. It's designed to be simple, and make the QB react quicker by not giving him as many things to read. You basically have a main option, and one check down option. That's it folks.

Anyone else starting to hate Kubiak and his west coast offense? I think at one time it was brilliant. That time was 1983.

We need a new direction, and Gary is too tied to his system imo.

Would it really be THAT difficult to bring in audibles??? Even if one run, and one other pass option? Seems to me that kubs has ZERO faith in schaub -otherwise he'd give him the ability to audible. I'm not liking this at ALL. I'm upset with offense as a whole, regardless of the pointless yardage we've put up.

EllisUnit
10-02-2013, 09:43 PM
Would it really be THAT difficult to bring in audibles??? Even if one run, and one other pass option? Seems to me that kubs has ZERO faith in schaub -otherwise he'd give him the ability to audible. I'm not liking this at ALL. I'm upset with offense as a whole, regardless of the pointless yardage we've put up.

If yardage only won you superbowls :kitten:

Texan_Bill
10-02-2013, 09:46 PM
Would it really be THAT difficult to bring in audibles??? Even if one run, and one other pass option? Seems to me that kubs has ZERO faith in schaub -otherwise he'd give him the ability to audible. I'm not liking this at ALL. I'm upset with offense as a whole, regardless of the pointless yardage we've put up.

Hey Sway, good to see you again!

That said, the point is that often they'll call two plays in the huddle and sometimes it comes down to a "check with me". Audibles in the WCO just aren't prevalent. Kubes *ahem* OC Rick Dennison called a bad play. The mistake was to not call a timeout once they realized it was a bad play.

That's on me! ;)

That's on Kubes and yes, that's on Schaub. That's on Don Coryell, Sid Gillman and yes, the master, Bill Walsh himself. It's just a function of the WCO.

Someone earlier brought up a good question and this is (paraphrased) "is the WCO now outdated?" That's a solid, legitmate question (i.e. the "run and shoot" or as Buddy Ryan would suggest the "chuck and duck").

Then again, is it still viable and depends on personnel??

In any event, it is an interesting conversation (In my best Spencer Tillman voice) "to be sure".

ATXtexanfan
10-02-2013, 09:56 PM
How is this thread nine pages. Even if it was a bad playcall and even it schaub couldnt audible HE STILL THREW THE PICK SIX. WTF DOESNT ANYONE UNDERSTAND. THE BALL WAS IN SCHAUBS HANDS ONLY AND END RESULT IS ALL ON HIM. YUP I SAID IT. Audible or not his judgement solely lead to the SINGLE worse outcome.

Grams
10-02-2013, 10:05 PM
HAHA!

I knew my idea would not go over well.

But, if we can get Sanchez on a 1 year vet minimum contract, cut Matt Schaub, and draft a QB in the 1st round... I think that's a viable plan.

If Kubiak is a QB guru as everybody claims, he can make it work.

Let's compare Sanchez VS Schaub

Accuracy: Sanchez
Arm Strength: Sanchez
Decision Making: Even
Mobility: Sanchez
Pocket Presence: Sanchez
Leadership: Schaub
Experience: Schaub

Lets-Do-This

The QB needs to have some semblance of intelligence. Think Sanchez fails at that.

Texan_Bill
10-02-2013, 10:07 PM
How is this thread nine pages. Even if it was a bad playcall and even it schaub couldnt audible HE STILL THREW THE PICK SIX. WTF DOESNT ANYONE UNDERSTAND. THE BALL WAS IN SCHAUBS HANDS ONLY AND END RESULT IS ALL ON HIM. YUP I SAID IT. Audible or not his judgement solely lead to the SINGLE worse outcome.

Totally agree.

Even HWSNBN would've had the good sense to go down in a fetal position and live to play another down..

WOW!! That really made me nauseous to type that. :gun:

bOODRO87
10-02-2013, 10:42 PM
How is this thread nine pages. Even if it was a bad playcall and even it schaub couldnt audible HE STILL THREW THE PICK SIX. WTF DOESNT ANYONE UNDERSTAND. THE BALL WAS IN SCHAUBS HANDS ONLY AND END RESULT IS ALL ON HIM. YUP I SAID IT. Audible or not his judgement solely lead to the SINGLE worse outcome.

May anyone who disagrees with you have the curse of a thousand fleas infesting their pubic area.

Corrosion
10-02-2013, 11:01 PM
How is this thread nine pages. Even if it was a bad playcall and even it schaub couldnt audible HE STILL THREW THE PICK SIX. WTF DOESNT ANYONE UNDERSTAND. THE BALL WAS IN SCHAUBS HANDS ONLY AND END RESULT IS ALL ON HIM. YUP I SAID IT. Audible or not his judgement solely lead to the SINGLE worse outcome.

I cant disagree .... fall down , throw it in the stands ..... anything but a fluttering wounded duck of a pass. Just take the damn sack , let the best punter in football do his thing and give your defense a chance to seal the deal ....:rake:

mridge01
10-02-2013, 11:24 PM
In the huddle, Foster should have demanded Schaub change the play to a running play. Big time players should demand the ball in game time situations.

leebigeztx
10-03-2013, 01:19 AM
Watched the play again from the all 22. They also broke down the play they ran vs titans. It was a good play call,but a piss poor decision by schaub.

Corrosion
10-03-2013, 02:38 AM
how in the world can you have a QB who cant audilbe in year 2013 in the NFL?

That's like an nba franchise who doesnt believe in analytics. You are at a distinct disadvantage strategy wise.

Its been discussed dozens of times before on these forums , so many I wonder how this thread got so long , many times that Schaub does have the ability to change a play at the line but that those audibles are set - he can change from a pass to a predetermined run play or from a run to a predetermined pass play.

Kubiak taking the heat for that play is nothing more than deflecting the heat off of the QB and onto the coach.

Bottom line , Schaub should have either taken the sack or thrown the ball out away yet he chose the worst option , throwing a fluttering duck where a defender had a chance to at it and got the worst possible result.

Corrosion
10-03-2013, 02:46 AM
Kubiak's audibles have play restrictions on them and it is seldom used.

How can you even sit there with a straight face and even consider that an audible?

That's like saying im giving my daughter freedom to date but i have to be there with you when you date.

that's what you call fake freedom.

Point blank , he has the ability to change the play when he sees a defense that isn't favorable to what's been called.


It really doesn't matter either .... sumb!tch never shoulda thrown that ball. Eat the sack and live to play another down. Everybody & their dog understands the simplicity of it.

Scooter
10-03-2013, 03:13 AM
well yea, if you want to be literal about it, sure its an audible.

but philosophically speaking, its not. Audibles shoudlnt have restrictions on it.

It really defeats the purpose of it.

you hear the word audible and picture peyton manning. go back and re-read this thread, and then listen to clips of sage rosenfels talking about kubiaks' system, and then go research the west coast offense. this is not a pre-snap "ok you go there, and you go there, and you do this" offense. it's not one where the quarterback draws something up in the dirt or they get to the line and look to the sideline like chip kelly's failing college scheme.

the audibles are built into the play itself, with an option to check into another such play before the snap. once schaub begins his cadence and sends a man in motion, the play is set and that's what gets run. there's no "let's make something up" option. it's done this way for a reason. we run many variations from very few formations each game, all designed to look the same with different results. you cant start moving players around and changing as you go pre-snap.

kubiak is falling on the sword for schaub because schaub didnt check out of the play because he missed the defensive alignment, and/or failed to do his job as a veteran of executing the play as called. in this case meaning take the sack or throw it away.

Corrosion
10-03-2013, 03:54 AM
you hear the word audible and picture peyton manning. go back and re-read this thread, and then listen to clips of sage rosenfels talking about kubiaks' system, and then go research the west coast offense. this is not a pre-snap "ok you go there, and you go there, and you do this" offense. it's not one where the quarterback draws something up in the dirt or they get to the line and look to the sideline like chip kelly's failing college scheme.

the audibles are built into the play itself, with an option to check into another such play before the snap. once schaub begins his cadence and sends a man in motion, the play is set and that's what gets run. there's no "let's make something up" option. it's done this way for a reason. we run many variations from very few formations each game, all designed to look the same with different results. you cant start moving players around and changing as you go pre-snap.

kubiak is falling on the sword for schaub because schaub didnt check out of the play because he missed the defensive alignment, and/or failed to do his job as a veteran of executing the play as called. in this case meaning take the sack or throw it away.

Someone has had this conversation before ..... :handshake:

thunderkyss
10-03-2013, 07:40 AM
If yardage only won you superbowls :kitten:

We're top 10 in points as well. It's just a matter of when we score those points & against who.

thunderkyss
10-03-2013, 07:44 AM
In the huddle, Foster should have demanded Schaub change the play to a running play. Big time players should demand the ball in game time situations.

That's it.

Yeah... lets go with that. When Schaub faked the handoff, Arian should have just grabbed the ball & ran with it.

thunderkyss
10-03-2013, 07:46 AM
Bottom line , Schaub should have either taken the sack or thrown the ball out away yet he chose the worst option , throwing a fluttering duck where a defender had a chance to at it and got the worst possible result.

I don't think Schaub should have thrown the ball.... at least not like he threw it. He had a guy in his face & he panicked. Hard to see, but it looked like Andre was behind the defense. If he would have tossed it over Andre's head, he'd look like a hero now.

That said, the defender had no play what-so-ever on that ball without running through Owen Daniels.... again same thing happened against Baltimore.

76Texan
10-03-2013, 10:52 AM
Here's a WCO playbook.
There's a section on audibles if any one is interested in.

http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/chris/westcoast/wco.pdf

76Texan
10-03-2013, 11:10 AM
Here's a look at how Joe Montana operated the audibles.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-12-14/sports/8704030212_1_49ers-quarterback-coach-split-end-mike-wilson-audibles

A few things to note:

It mentioned a run that Montana checked into a slant.
That's the built-in audible of the WCO that we've been talking about.

It's not free-lancing where Montana will call any play that he wants.
Each week, he and the coaches would go over a plan where they pick out a few plays that Montana can audible to, if and only if he sees certain defensive formation.
This, we're not sure whether the Texans are doing with Schaub or not.
The times we saw "miscommunication" between Schaub and the receivers/TEs, were possibilities of audibles.

....

Another aspect of Kubiak's WCO that I've discussed before is the liberal use of "motion" and "multi-formations". The Texans do this a whole lot more than the Broncos (when Kubiak was their OC).

"Motion" is another built-in audible.
When we talk about "multi-formations", it means that the Texans had more plays that they plan for a particular week than their opponents.
This reduces the "need" to call a "real" audible.
When players need to remember their assignment on so many plays already, as a coach, you don't want to further complicate the game plan.

eriadoc
10-03-2013, 03:30 PM
sorry, not gonna listen to another back up quarterback.

Well, when you get to be as knowledgeable about their system as a practice squad player, we'll start listening to you.

Bulls on Parade
10-03-2013, 04:08 PM
The QB needs to have some semblance of intelligence. Think Sanchez fails at that.
Agreed. But on the other hand, Mark Sanchez has shown what he can do with a strong run game and defense around him. The Jets reached two straight AFC Championship games with him starting at quarterback. It wasn't until the Jets started losing hall of fame caliber talent like LaDainian Tomlinson and Kris Jenkins, even Darrelle Revis (injured and traded), that we started to see Mark Sanchez's game fall apart. He no longer could hide his flaws behind one of the best run games and defenses in the league.

The 2013 Texans, as of now, have the 1st ranked defense and the 5th ranked offense in the entire NFL. Not to mention tons of talent on both sides of the ball, which includes a strong 1-2 punch in the run game with Arian Foster and Ben Tate.

I think we compare quite favorably to those New York Jets teams that reached two straight AFC Championship games. We may not have a total beast of a nose tackle like three-time All Pro Kris Jenkins, as Earl Mitchell is just an average nose tackle at best. But J.J. Watt, arguably the best defensive lineman in the NFL since Bruce Smith, makes up for that.

Rex Ryan didn't have to do anything other than keep Mark Sanchez in check and limit his interceptions. Rex Ryan would have ran the ball and trusted his defense to win games when the situation warranted it. Which is what Kubiak should have done in that last game against the Seahawks. I'll take an ugly win over a pretty loss, one in which we dominated all of the statistics, any day of the week.

If you put Mark Sanchez on the Texans and Matt Schaub on the Jets. One would thrive and likely reach the AFC Championship game and maybe even Super Bowl. The other one would get himself injured and likely benched by a rookie. This has nothing to do with audibles. But rather trusting your run game and defense to take you to the promise land.

Bulls on Parade
10-03-2013, 04:13 PM
I don't think Schaub should have thrown the ball.... at least not like he threw it. He had a guy in his face & he panicked. Hard to see, but it looked like Andre was behind the defense. If he would have tossed it over Andre's head, he'd look like a hero now.

That said, the defender had no play what-so-ever on that ball without running through Owen Daniels.... again same thing happened against Baltimore.
Gary Kubiak regrets even calling a pass play in the first place. You can tell by his interviews he called the wrong play and if he had it over to do again he'd have called for a run. Hopefully that loss against Seattle doesn't come back to bite us at the end of the year. If we end up coming one game short of homefield advantage, or even winning the AFC South. That one game could even be the difference in us making the playoffs or missing the playoffs as a potential wild-card team. A lot of good teams in the AFC right now.

76Texan
10-03-2013, 04:50 PM
Gary Kubiak regrets even calling a pass play in the first place. You can tell by his interviews he called the wrong play and if he had it over to do again he'd have called for a run. Hopefully that loss against Seattle doesn't come back to bite us at the end of the year. If we end up coming one game short of homefield advantage, or even winning the AFC South. That one game could even be the difference in us making the playoffs or missing the playoffs as a potential wild-card team. A lot of good teams in the AFC right now.

Schaub can, and should have checked into a run strong side left on that play.
It's a built-in mechanism in the WCO.

Both the run and the pass were available on that play.
The original call was a bootleg, but Schaub had the authority to check into a run play out of that formation.

That's what it means by "play design".
It was designed to be a bootleg to the right with the option for Schaub to check into a run play; in this case, a run strong side to the left should have the best chance to succeed where the Texans had the number in blocking, with the blitz coming from the opposite side.

If Schaub choose to stay with the pass call; it's on him to make the best of the situation.
A run fake like this is designed to fool the weak side LB.
If he advances (which he did), he would leave a void behind him as Graham cut across the field from the other side; that's where Schaub had the best chance throwing the ball. It should be automatic as the QB turns around and saw that the weak side backer bought the run fake.

Failing that, Schaub should realize that a throw to the inside is optimum for OD since Sherman played to the outside all the way.

Schaub committed a triple error there; he did everything wrong, including just throw the ball away or take a sack.

It was stupidity beyond all stupidities; it's not acceptable for a ten-yr veteran.

Exascor
10-03-2013, 06:02 PM
The 2013 Texans, as of now, have the 1st ranked defense and the 5th ranked offense in the entire NFL.Just a small deal in regards to this - ranking high in either offense or defense by yards is not a sign of a great team. You would think that if a team could do the "impossible" of having the #1 ranked offense and #1 ranked defense they would be impossible to beat right?

2010 Chargers
#1 ranked offense & #1 ranked defense
Record: 9-7 (missed playoffs)

My only point of bring this up is that sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. If Schaub hadn't throw any interceptions this year, we might be 4-0 or 3-1. If the team didn't have a bunch of penalties in Baltimore we might have won. Offense and defense rankings (along with power rankings) are for teams with low expectations or that are looking for a silver lining. The Texans are at least in the AFC championship game or bust mode. The only stats that count are W-L and playoff seeding. Everything else is garbage.

Other than that I'm right there with you BoP. :woot2:

Rey
10-03-2013, 07:11 PM
Man, I've been tough on Schaub as a player...but I hope he succeeds. I hope he wins the Super Bowl this season. Not for me as a fan...but for him. People are really being tough on him and getting personal. I don't like that.

I hope Schaub comes out and picks teams apart for the rest of this season and tells everyone to F off. One thing that separates him from Carr besides the obvious things is that the guy shows up, works and takes it.

I don't think he's all that great a qb, but I respect that. I'd tell him that to his face. Not a huge fan of some if the on field things you do, but much respect for being or seemingly being a stand up guy. That's like one of the traits I admire most. Show up work and take the good with the bad like a man.

Double Barrel
10-03-2013, 07:16 PM
Well said, Rey. Two things that are less than honorable in this whole thing, IMO. Making it personal against the man, and rooting for him to fail and team to lose for some wishful draft pick.

I was not happy with his performance, like the majority of Texans fans. I even said some stuff based on that perspective because there was still the lingering aggravation on Sunday and Monday...and probably Tuesday.

But now it's all about Sunday night and wanting him to succeed as our starting QB. Kubiak is not going to bench him. That is just delusional thinking without any sort of objectivity involved. So it's a given that he's our QB right now, so hope for the best and never give up hope as a fan.

ObsiWan
10-03-2013, 07:25 PM
Sage Rosenfels said yesterday that the lack of ability to audible is part and parcel of the west coast offense run by Kubiak. It's not just Schaub. Any QB Gary puts into this system is going to have the same limits. It's designed to be simple, and make the QB react quicker by not giving him as many things to read. You basically have a main option, and one check down option. That's it folks.

Anyone else starting to hate Kubiak and his west coast offense? I think at one time it was brilliant. That time was 1983.

We need a new direction, and Gary is too tied to his system imo.

We weren't out of time outs were we?

That's always an option.

Man in motion or not, we hadn't snapped the ball. IF Schaub saw the play coming once the guy went in motion and he saw this play would end badly; call time out.
How hard would that be?

Corrosion
10-03-2013, 07:30 PM
Man, I've been tough on Schaub as a player...but I hope he succeeds. I hope he wins the Super Bowl this season. Not for me as a fan...but for him. People are really being tough on him and getting personal. I don't like that.

I hope Schaub comes out and picks teams apart for the rest of this season and tells everyone to F off. One thing that separates him from Carr besides the obvious things is that the guy shows up, works and takes it.

I don't think he's all that great a qb, but I respect that. I'd tell him that to his face. Not a huge fan of some if the on field things you do, but much respect for being or seemingly being a stand up guy. That's like one of the traits I admire most. Show up work and take the good with the bad like a man.

I'd love for him & the team to win it all .... You are right , he's worked hard and been accountable .... but that doesn't put him above criticism nor does it open him up as a target for personal attacks.

ObsiWan
10-03-2013, 07:48 PM
Man, I've been tough on Schaub as a player...but I hope he succeeds. I hope he wins the Super Bowl this season. Not for me as a fan...but for him. People are really being tough on him and getting personal. I don't like that.

I hope Schaub comes out and picks teams apart for the rest of this season and tells everyone to F off. One thing that separates him from Carr besides the obvious things is that the guy shows up, works and takes it.

I don't think he's all that great a qb, but I respect that. I'd tell him that to his face. Not a huge fan of some if the on field things you do, but much respect for being or seemingly being a stand up guy. That's like one of the traits I admire most. Show up work and take the good with the bad like a man.

Agreed.
Criticize the play all you want. I've done that myself.
Burn the jersey if it makes you feel good about yourself.
But some of this hate stuff and I-wish-he'd-get-hurt-stuff is way over the line.
Rep your way.

EllisUnit
10-03-2013, 08:09 PM
Some of you kill me, when we run the ball in the 4th and dont get it, people scream conservative, when we pass even though its a busted play the same people scream we should of ran it. I have no problem with the call by kubiak actually trying to be aggresive. Kubiak can take the blame all he wants but the fact is the pick 6 was on schaub, he had 3 more guys he could of thrown it to. Now that this happened expect the conservative kubiak in the 4th when winning by 3 that everyone used to compalin about again.

thunderkyss
10-03-2013, 09:04 PM
Agreed. But on the other hand, Mark Sanchez has shown what he can do with a strong run game and defense around him. The Jets reached two straight AFC Championship games with him starting at quarterback. It wasn't until the Jets started losing hall of fame caliber talent like LaDainian Tomlinson and Kris Jenkins, even Darrelle Revis (injured and traded), that we started to see Mark Sanchez's game fall apart. He no longer could hide his flaws behind one of the best run games and defenses in the league.

Which shoulder did he hurt? His throwing shoulder? I'd definitely be open to Sanchez, like you said, if he doesn't have to throw the ball 50 times a game (results of playing with a great defense & a great run game) he should be fine.

Losing that run game is what killed them. Shawn Green didn't pan out & after LTs flash of greatness, they had nowhere to go.

The only thing I don't like about it, is that there is only one QB in the entire league that my wife hates more than Schaub...... & his name rhymes with chanchez.

Bulls on Parade
10-03-2013, 10:03 PM
Which shoulder did he hurt? His throwing shoulder? I'd definitely be open to Sanchez, like you said, if he doesn't have to throw the ball 50 times a game (results of playing with a great defense & a great run game) he should be fine.

Losing that run game is what killed them. Shawn Green didn't pan out & after LTs flash of greatness, they had nowhere to go.

The only thing I don't like about it, is that there is only one QB in the entire league that my wife hates more than Schaub...... & his name rhymes with chanchez.
Unfortunately, yes. Mark Sanchez opted for surgery to repair a torn labrum in his throwing shoulder just three days ago. He's going to need four to six months of recovery time. But he could be another experienced and somewhat young quarterback option this off-season among the likes of somebody like Josh Freeman.

We don't necessarily have to rely on some rookie drafted or even Yates or Keenum. No doubt we're going to see how Schaub can handle the adversity the rest of this season and hopefully playoffs. But this off-season I would expect a change if Schaub continues to struggle. Right now I'm on the fence regarding Schaub and I've been one of his biggest fans. He has to prove it on the field and hopefully he can. He still has time to win over the Houston fans.

EDIT: Just got home. So Josh Freeman is already a free agent?
Just saw on ESPN's ticker that Tampa Bay released him earlier today.

thunderkyss
10-03-2013, 10:06 PM
Gary Kubiak regrets even calling a pass play in the first place. You can tell by his interviews he called the wrong play and if he had it over to do again he'd have called for a run.

You can't trust any one thing Kubiak tells you. You've got to try to piece together everything he's ever said & decipher what he's telling you now.

He's always said Matt has the ability to check from a run to a pass, or a pass to a run. Now, when the whole world is against Matt Schaub he comes out & says Matt didn't have the ability to audible out of that play & that he called a bad play....

To me, it looks like he's just protecting his QB.

DocBar
10-03-2013, 10:18 PM
Please stop any talk of Sanchez. It's absolutely ridiculous.

On the other hand, Hoyer might be out for the rest of the season and maybe Cleveland would trade for Schaub!! 1st place in the AFC North and Weeden isn't getting it done. Freeman might be an option for them, but he seems like damaged goods.

Bulls on Parade
10-03-2013, 10:26 PM
DocBar, a quarterback's perception can change very fast depending on the situation he's in. A lot of quarterbacks, especially one who's already been to two AFC Championship games, would have great success playing with the Houston Texans right now. A team loaded with numerous pro bowlers on both sides of the ball. The fact we're 2-2 right now is the only thing that should be deemed absolutely ridiculous.

I think Joe Flacco is an average quarterback fresh off a five-interception game but did he not play like Joe Montana and an elite quarterback in the past playoffs, on his way to the Super Bowl MVP? He did it with amazing talent around him. Guys the Ravens no longer have. I'm not just talking about future hall of famers like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, but Anquan Boldin for example, would catch any pass he threw up to him. Even passes that looked awfully bad (wobbly) and weren't perfectly thrown spirals. That one catch he made in the Super Bowl was amazing.

There is no reason why the Houston Texans can't win a Super Bowl or two in the next couple of years with their overall team talent. Rick Smith has done an amazing job. Quarterback play is the one weakness we continue to talk about which is a shame. If Schaub can somehow get lucky like Flacco did last year then maybe we can win a Lombardi trophy with Schaub. It's just unlikely.

DocBar
10-03-2013, 10:39 PM
DocBar, a quarterback's perception can change very fast depending on the situation he's in. A lot of quarterbacks, especially one who's already been to two AFC Championship games, would have great success playing with the Houston Texans right now. A team loaded with numerous pro bowlers on both sides of the ball. The fact we're 2-2 right now is the only thing that should be deemed absolutely ridiculous.

I think Joe Flacco is an average quarterback fresh off a five-interception game but did he not play like Joe Montana and an elite quarterback in the past playoffs, on his way to the Super Bowl MVP? He did it with amazing talent around him. Guys the Ravens no longer have. I'm not just talking about future hall of famers like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, but Anquan Boldin for example, would catch any pass he threw up to him. Even passes that looked awfully bad (wobbly) and weren't perfectly thrown spirals. That one catch he made in the Super Bowl was amazing.

There is no reason why the Houston Texans can't win a Super Bowl or two in the next couple of years with their overall team talent. Rick Smith has done an amazing job. Quarterback play is the one weakness we continue to talk about which is a shame. If Schaub can somehow get lucky like Flacco did last year then maybe we can win a Lombardi trophy with Schaub. It's just unlikely.More like a fan's perception of a QB can change very fast, depending on the situation. Kubiak might as well bring Carr back as entertain any ideas of Sanchez. Right now, the Texans Nation would take anybody but Schaub. Some guys are even calling for Cousins. WTF??? The season is not over at 2-2. If, for some reason, Schaub is benched, Yates and Keenum have shown very good command of this offense along with quite a bit more athleticism and mobility. Why go for all these knee jerk reactions to get a QB that couldn't begin to decipher the playbook instead of looking at the guys that already know it? Hell, according to his agent, Brett Favre is ripped and could play tomorrow. I'd go that route before any Freeman/Sanchez/Cousins tripe.

Freaking Mark Sanchez. :smiliepalm:

leebigeztx
10-03-2013, 11:03 PM
Schaub can, and should have checked into a run strong side left on that play.
It's a built-in mechanism in the WCO.

Both the run and the pass were available on that play.
The original call was a bootleg, but Schaub had the authority to check into a run play out of that formation.

That's what it means by "play design".
It was designed to be a bootleg to the right with the option for Schaub to check into a run play; in this case, a run strong side to the left should have the best chance to succeed where the Texans had the number in blocking, with the blitz coming from the opposite side.

If Schaub choose to stay with the pass call; it's on him to make the best of the situation.
A run fake like this is designed to fool the weak side LB.
If he advances (which he did), he would leave a void behind him as Graham cut across the field from the other side; that's where Schaub had the best chance throwing the ball. It should be automatic as the QB turns around and saw that the weak side backer bought the run fake.

Failing that, Schaub should realize that a throw to the inside is optimum for OD since Sherman played to the outside all the way.

Schaub committed a triple error there; he did everything wrong, including just throw the ball away or take a sack.

It was stupidity beyond all stupidities; it's not acceptable for a ten-yr veteran.


Yep,he screwed the pooch on that play and that's really unacceptable.

RTP2110
10-03-2013, 11:16 PM
This just dawned on me, sorry if it's been mentioned....something very minor that could have a huge benefit....is there not an option to at least change out of the PA pass and audible into the run you're faking? You can at least get out of the very very poor play call without having to change your formation.

thunderkyss
10-04-2013, 12:20 AM
Please stop any talk of Sanchez. It's absolutely ridiculous.
.

I thought it would be absolutely ridiculous that we'd take a serious look at Matt Lienart or Dan Orlovsky, but...

Rey
10-04-2013, 08:19 AM
This is exactly what im talking about. This type of comment right here. This pretty much epitomizes the average mentality of a houston sports fan.

Be a nice guy, do enough to win, and we will baby and protect you no matter what your failures to win the big one.

This is how biggio and bagwell came off relatively unscathed despite their playoff choke jobs. This is how Kubiak and Schaub last this long.

This city is too soft. Fan wise and media wise.

If you people think burning jerseys and making some satirical pick six burger menu is "too tough" and "personal" then maybe you should just watch some golf because your sensibilities are too fragile for manly sports.

Can you imagine if this texan team with schaub and kubiak at the helm was in new york, LA, or philly? Can you imagine what the media and fans would do to them?

Looking back at what lebron james had to endure before winning a championship, its a freaking joke that anybody can feel sorry for what is going on with Schaub.

A freaking joke.


You sound like a sad little person that doesn't have much meaning in your life so you lean on football, entertainment, like it's your own reality. Or maybe you're just delusional. I'm leaning more towards delusional since no one said anything about burning jerseys. You're maybe one of the worst types of people...the blathering fool that is completely sober...unless you were actually drunk when you wrote this....

Either way, the last thing I think about when I read your post is tough. I know tough when I see it, lmao and that ain't it.

Nitrofish
10-04-2013, 02:38 PM
Read this (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/10/49ers-preview-with-danny-tuccitto-texans-first-quarter-of-season-review) and more in this great read. Links to the video are in the original article (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/10/49ers-preview-with-danny-tuccitto-texans-first-quarter-of-season-review).

The Audible Issue.

For some fans, that the Texans do not have a Peyton Manning-style audible system is a problem for this offense. And they look to the Pick-6 play in the Seattle game as evidence of that.

I’ve written in the past about how the Texans do audibles using words directly from the players. This is worth reviewing if you haven’t seen it. Basically, they audible about 30% of the plays, and not to the entire playbook. And the line and the quarterback have different responsibilities as it relates to the play and the line protections. They have the ability to audible from run to pass and vice versa, from a selection of two to three plays based on what they see from the defense.

Also worth noting that this isn’t a trust in Matt Schaub thing. Any quarterback running Gary Kubiak’s version of the West Coast offense would have the same system.

Ultimately, I think that Sage Rosenfels view of the Texans audible system is a sensible one. There are pros-cons to the way that the Texans do audibles. (Just to clarify, not all West Coast offenses do no traditional audibles. I think the headline of the podcast overstates Rosenfels’ point).

As it relates to the Pick-6 call, Gary Kubiak was asked a yes/no question of whether Matt Schaub had the freedom to audible out of that aggressive play call given what the defense did. And his response was, ““No, once we called it, started the motion, it was game on.”

If you watch the play, if the TE is in motion, and the defense declares after that starts, it is too late to audible out of that play whatever your audible system is. The quarterback’s responsibility is to not force a play if the defense does things that make the play not workable.

The Texans have done counter-intuitive, aggressive plays to close out games in the past. For example, check out the 5:17 mark of the Bengals-Texans highlights in the playoff game last year. Which leads to the larger point:

That Bengals play is not as aggressive as the one called against the Seahawks, but certainly could have been not successful. It was a risk/reward play that tried to nail the win.

My view of audibles is that it isn’t a huge problem. The Texans have had highly productive, efficient offenses with this exact system. If the quarterback does smart decision making, he eats dumb plays and can still take advantage of matchup issues he can see with what the defense is doing. You can look at audibles as “the problem,” though they really are allowed to change plays, or your can look at the simpler explanation:

The pass protection is a season killer if not fixed. It’s a problem for a non-mobile quarterback. It would be a problem for just about any quarterback. Part of the issue is that in games that you get behind, teams can pin their ears back. But that shouldn’t have been an issue in the Seahawks game. They had the lead for a large part of the game.

ObsiWan
10-04-2013, 02:51 PM
Read this (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/10/49ers-preview-with-danny-tuccitto-texans-first-quarter-of-season-review) and more in this great read. Links to the video are in the original article (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/10/49ers-preview-with-danny-tuccitto-texans-first-quarter-of-season-review).


Thanks for the link. I appreciate the knowledge.

But the mob has made up its collective mind. They have little interest in listening to reason.

Schaub must be punished.

http://www.pengovsky.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/201002010_lynch.jpg

Double Barrel
10-04-2013, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the link. I appreciate the knowledge.

But the mob has made up its collective mind. They have little interest in listening to reason.

Schaub must be punished.


Great article, but of course, I knew it when I read it that it was our very own Texans Chick.

As far as your point, she hit the nail on the head:

The quarterback’s responsibility is to not force a play if the defense does things that make the play not workable.

This is why fans are upset with him. For the WCO to be successful, the QB MUST be the player on the field that makes the consistently good decisions. He does not have the be the best athlete (obviously), but he must be the one that does not make blatantly stupid mistakes that give the other team points to tie the game with less than 3 minutes left on the clock.

All that said, Schaub is our QB this year regardless of the whine and cheese crowd, so put away the pitchforks if you're going to be a Texans fan. You'd better root for his success in spite of your own reservations and/or dislike of the player.

If you are rooting for him to fail, you are not a fan of this team, IMO. :texflag:

Nitrofish
10-04-2013, 03:03 PM
Great article, but of course, I knew it when I read it that it was our very own Texans Chick.

As far as your point, she hit the nail on the head:



This is why fans are upset with him. For the WCO to be successful, the QB MUST be the player on the field that makes the consistently good decisions. He does not have the be the best athlete (obviously), but he must be the one that does not make blatantly stupid mistakes that give the other team points to tie the game with less than 3 minutes left on the clock.

All that said, Schaub is our QB this year regardless of the whine and cheese crowd, so put away the pitchforks if you're going to be a Texans fan. You'd better root for his success in spite of your own reservations and/or dislike of the player.

If you are rooting for him to fail, you are not a fan of this team, IMO. :texflag:

I bow to you sir. Great post, but your last sentence in particular was pure genius!

Corrosion
10-04-2013, 03:35 PM
If you are rooting for him to fail, you are not a fan of this team, IMO. :texflag:

I by no means root for him to fail ....I'd like nothing more than watching Schaub hoisting a Lombardi Trophy.

I do have reservations about his ability to lead this team to its ultimate goal.

ObsiWan
10-04-2013, 04:44 PM
Great article, but of course, I knew it when I read it that it was our very own Texans Chick.

As far as your point, she hit the nail on the head:

This is why fans are upset with him. For the WCO to be successful, the QB MUST be the player on the field that makes the consistently good decisions. He does not have the be the best athlete (obviously), but he must be the one that does not make blatantly stupid mistakes that give the other team points to tie the game with less than 3 minutes left on the clock.

All that said, Schaub is our QB this year regardless of the whine and cheese crowd, so put away the pitchforks if you're going to be a Texans fan. You'd better root for his success in spite of your own reservations and/or dislike of the player.
If you are rooting for him to fail, you are not a fan of this team, IMO.

Agree with all you've said. And I understand the ire and frustration of the fans; heck, I share it.

Regarding that last sentence; I'll never root against my team.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQaupenas-D4w1mJNmGp9xsSiMmJ2FZIgLZtSRxvebeN40Ng0bXsw

kingtexan
10-06-2013, 12:31 PM
If you cant trust your QB to change a bad play-call, then get a new QB.

If your coach has such an ego that he wont allow audibles, then get a new coach.

If you don't have the balls to make tough decisions regarding personnel that is costing you games, sell the team.

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 02:50 PM
If you cant trust your QB to change a bad play-call, then get a new QB.

If your coach has such an ego that he wont allow audibles, then get a new coach.

If you don't have the balls to make tough decisions regarding personnel that is costing you games, sell the team.

If you don't know that your team audibles on 30% of their plays...

:toropalm:

kingtexan
10-06-2013, 04:26 PM
If you don't know that your team audibles on 30% of their plays...

:toropalm:

More stats .... wonderful ...

Corrosion
10-06-2013, 04:27 PM
If you don't know that your team audibles on 30% of their plays...

:toropalm:

They just don't realize that the audible are built into the offense .... :rake:

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 10:42 AM
I saw Schaub do this in the game. I think that was a signal for his audible.

http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/589/10/589_1381492472.JPG

kingtexan
10-11-2013, 10:54 AM
I saw Schaub do this in the game. I think that was a signal for his audible.

http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/589/10/589_1381492472.JPG

If you look closely his eyes are closed, he is flapping his arms and he is saying "I believe I can fly ... ".

Hervoyel
10-11-2013, 11:34 AM
If you don't know that your team audibles on 30% of their plays...

:toropalm:

So by audible do you mean that the QB changes to the other play he is allowed to call or that he actually has the freedom to pick just about any play he has the personnel to execute and audible to that? Honest question.

Is it "You can do this or that" or "If you see something out there that you can take advantage of then change to the play you need"?

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 12:17 PM
So by audible do you mean that the QB changes to the other play he is allowed to call or that he actually has the freedom to pick just about any play he has the personnel to execute and audible to that? Honest question.


I think it's the ability to change to another play.


Is it "You can do this or that" or "If you see something out there that you can take advantage of then change to the play you need"?

I'd like to see how beneficial those audibles are. I know when Carr was here, I used to complain about not having the ability to audible. Then Schaub came in & the offense has been pretty prolific. If we're not audibling, we're doing pretty dam good with what we do. So..... it's not a big issue to me.

I did hear DeAndre mention in the preseason if he's got one on one coverage he's going to run a go route. Maybe that was just for the preseason, or just that game. But I'd think, as prolific as our offense has been, that there are built in rules like that every game. When Andre is in motion, if the coverage the defense is in puts him on a LB, or a safety, then we take advantage of it.

Like I said, we're at the top of the league in points & yards generally every year. If it ain't broke...

Rey
10-11-2013, 12:52 PM
I think it's the ability to change to another play.



I'd like to see how beneficial those audibles are. I know when Carr was here, I used to complain about not having the ability to audible. Then Schaub came in & the offense has been pretty prolific. If we're not audibling, we're doing pretty dam good with what we do. So..... it's not a big issue to me.

I did hear DeAndre mention in the preseason if he's got one on one coverage he's going to run a go route. Maybe that was just for the preseason, or just that game. But I'd think, as prolific as our offense has been, that there are built in rules like that every game. When Andre is in motion, if the coverage the defense is in puts him on a LB, or a safety, then we take advantage of it.

Like I said, we're at the top of the league in points & yards generally every year. If it ain't broke...

1) kubiak has said once the motion starts there is no more "audibling". Yet, here you are saying that you think when someone goes in motion and it creates a favorable match up, we audible.

Doubtful.

2)your last statement is settling. That's why you love Schaub. Because you think he's "good enough". If it ain't broke and all that jazz. How about being even better? How about crushing opponents and breaking the damn scoreboard? How about when we regress we regress to "still pretty good" instead of "the suck"?


This league is about greatness. Texans aren't going to go-hum their way to a Super Bowl. In this day and age it will be very hard to make it if your offense can't consistently deliver late in the year and in the play offs.

DX-TEX
10-11-2013, 12:59 PM
I saw Schaub do this in the game. I think that was a signal for his audible.

http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/589/10/589_1381492472.JPG

Maybe he was saying "Everyone stand back! I feel another pick 6 coming!"

Brisco_County
10-11-2013, 01:15 PM
I saw Schaub do this in the game. I think that was a signal for his audible.

http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/589/10/589_1381492472.JPG

Correct. He'll make motions like this, or he'll motion to a WR to adjust his position on the line. It doesn't posses the fine tuning of audibles, but it reduces the affect that crowd noise has on your adjustments. I think I prefer the latter.

Double Barrel
10-11-2013, 01:25 PM
I think it's the ability to change to another play.


You should listen to the Sage Rosenfels interviews where he explains audibles in Kubiak's system. Very educational.

thunderkyss
10-11-2013, 01:32 PM
1) kubiak has said once the motion starts there is no more "audibling". Yet, here you are saying that you think when someone goes in motion and it creates a favorable match up, we audible.

Doubtful.


That's not what I said.


2)your last statement is settling. That's why you love Schaub. Because you think he's "good enough". If it ain't broke and all that jazz. How about being even better? How about crushing opponents and breaking the damn scoreboard? How about when we regress we regress to "still pretty good" instead of "the suck"?


This league is about greatness. Texans aren't going to go-hum their way to a Super Bowl. In this day and age it will be very hard to make it if your offense can't consistently deliver late in the year and in the play offs.

I think Schaub is good enough that we've consistently been a top 10 offense in both yards & scoring over the last 5 years. I don't believe it's going to be as easy to replace him as many people think.

I know that throughout history teams have not spent high draft picks, big FA dollars, or a lot of energy in replacing their starting QB when they are top 10... in offensive scoring & yardage. I don't expect the Texans to be any different.

noxiousdog
10-11-2013, 03:29 PM
I think this idea that other QB's can audible to any play is false. It's always going to be limited by formation and personnel. Further, I'm not sure I'd trust -everyone on the team- to be able to hear and process the full playcall from being lined up at the line of scrimmage.

Rey
10-12-2013, 02:14 PM
I think this idea that other QB's can audible to any play is false. It's always going to be limited by formation and personnel. Further, I'm not sure I'd trust -everyone on the team- to be able to hear and process the full playcall from being lined up at the line of scrimmage.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, it's just stage two denial at this point if you don't see that the texans don't have as much freedom in the audibling system as some other teams.

Our system is more of a check with me system without actually looking at the coach. It's a step above that. Instead of the coach assessing the defensive formation, like you'll see with college teams you give that responsibility to the qb. He's either going play 1 or play 2. That's it.

It's pretty well documented at this point how our audibling system works.