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revan
09-23-2013, 08:20 PM
The OL

http://i42.tinypic.com/k2n3ba.gif

http://i44.tinypic.com/o0t5pf.gif

http://i41.tinypic.com/24c7fqh.gif

Even Brady or the all mighty Rodgers couldnt get a pass off with this kind of protection. Rush 4 drop 7....... daaaaaaam.

amazing80
09-23-2013, 08:27 PM
that was 3 plays......sure they contributed but did they throw the pick 6? did they give up a punt return for a td?

The bottom line is Schaub and special teams is our problem.....no oline is perfect, sacks happen....deal with it

revan
09-23-2013, 08:35 PM
that was 3 plays......sure they contributed but did they throw the pick 6? did they give up a punt return for a td?

The bottom line is Schaub and special teams is our problem.....no oline is perfect, sacks happen....deal with it

When he got intercepted he had four rushing and seven in coverege. I know he had a bad game and of course I 100% agree that special teams, aside from Lechler is horrible. But this is a 4000 yard passer, give him time to throw and we will get far. Look how bad it went for Rodgers with no run game.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 08:38 PM
The OL

http://i42.tinypic.com/k2n3ba.gif

http://i44.tinypic.com/o0t5pf.gif

http://i41.tinypic.com/24c7fqh.gif

Even Brady or the all mighty Rodgers couldnt get a pass off with this kind of protection. Rush 4 drop 7....... daaaaaaam.On 2 of those three plays, any somewhat mobile QB like Brady, Rodgers, Manning or Brees would've shifted the pocket or at least had a more productive results. I'm still not certain of whether Schaub or Kubiak is more at fault. Is Kubiak completely shackling Schaub or does Schaub just suck that bad at reading a defense. I kinda lean towards Kubiak being more at fault until I watch video of Schaub.

kingtexan
09-23-2013, 08:40 PM
All I see here is an immobile QB ...

waynegg
09-23-2013, 08:42 PM
Watch the time clock on the top 2. 3 seconds each to connect. Schaub's lead feet just make it look like they aren't doing their job. How much time do you think an offensive line needs to give a professional QB. And heaven forbid Schaub should move...

waynegg
09-23-2013, 08:48 PM
And in the third one Schaub was going for the dirt five yards before Ngata even got to him when he coulda just run to his left, picked him, and made a gain.

kingtexan
09-23-2013, 08:50 PM
Manning is shredding the Oakland defense throwing into double-coverages ... without a starting LT ... and with a four surgery neck and not much mobility. And you are saying our QB isn't the issue? Oh, ok ...

revan
09-23-2013, 08:53 PM
Dayum whats with all the hostility. Im not defending Schaub just showing our weakness at OL. Guess everyone is on the same mindset here of just pointing out the QB.

SchaubApologist
09-23-2013, 08:55 PM
When he got intercepted he had four rushing and seven in coverege. I know he had a bad game and of course I 100% agree that special teams, aside from Lechler is horrible. But this is a 4000 yard passer, give him time to throw and we will get far. Look how bad it went for Rodgers with no run game.

A 4000 yard passer doesn't hold the same enamor as it once used to.

Rodgers did not cost his team the game vs Cinci. An untimely fumble did (which Rodgers was no part of)

Schaub had plenty of time yesterday. He gets the happy feet and panics.

kingtexan
09-23-2013, 08:57 PM
Dayum whats with all the hostility.

Maybe after the last two games, its your sig ...

SchaubApologist
09-23-2013, 08:58 PM
Dayum whats with all the hostility. Im not defending Schaub just showing our weakness at OL. Guess everyone is on the same mindset here of just pointing out the QB.

You're not breaking news here.. We are aware of the OL, but a good QB (which Schaub is paid to be) can overcome/mask a lot of that (which he has not).

htowntexans1985
09-23-2013, 08:59 PM
Dayum whats with all the hostility. Im not defending Schaub just showing our weakness at OL. Guess everyone is on the same mindset here of just pointing out the QB.

Honestly this team has issues up and down the board. I just think this laid back demeanor the organization has is ridiculous. No fire from anyone except maybe Cushing and Watt. Hopefully this will be kubiak's last ride.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 08:59 PM
Dayum whats with all the hostility. Im not defending Schaub just showing our weakness at OL. Guess everyone is on the same mindset here of just pointing out the QB.

I pointed out that the O Line IS doing its job. Schaub is just so damned slow it looks like they aren't. Again, look at the clocks and see how long his line keeps the defenders off him.

I'm also saying you seem to be making excuses for golden boy instead of seeing it for what it is.

revan
09-23-2013, 09:00 PM
Maybe after the last two games, its your sig ...

LMAO ok buddy, next time I make one I will be sure to ask you for permission on what you like.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 09:03 PM
Manning is shredding the Oakland defense throwing into double-coverages ... without a starting LT ... and with a four surgery neck and not much mobility. And you are saying our QB isn't the issue? Oh, ok ...And he's done it for years with no running game. Of course, his only SB title came when he did have a running game.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 09:20 PM
There were times in that game that Flacco's OL didn't perform any better for him. In fact, their first two or three possessions Flacco looked exactly like that.

I saw two problems.


Big Plays
Not only did they intercept Schaub, they returned it for a TD. Shortly after, they returned a punt for a TD. Our defense was doing it's thing & was holding Flacco & Caldwell in check. Our defense can't stop them from scoring points if they aren't on the field.

Taking chances
After a few futile attempts to move the ball, the Ravens understood they need to stop settling for what the defense gave them, & take what they wanted. They didn't connect on most of them, but they threw the ball downfield, keeping the defense honest. They got lucky & got a PI call on Kj that was total bunk... but they moved the ball.


There were actually a few other things. Flacco's barking out the snap count picked up 15 yards from off sides calls. The only time I can think of Schaub trying to do that is on 4th & 1 when everyone knows we're not "really" going to go for it. I remember Luck using that in Indy.... totally screwing with the heads of our pass rushers.

Sense of urgency. As well as our defense played, there was a time there late in the third, or early in the 4th, we could not get the Ravens off the field. 3 & outs are great to start the game, but if it's important for the offense to recognize when they need to score, there's got to be a time when the Defense recognizes they need to get off the field & get it done. That didn't happen.

Same thing on offense. We spent 5 minutes dinking & dunking down the field & punted.... what's up with that? We had already given up.

Corrosion
09-23-2013, 09:27 PM
On 2 of those three plays, any somewhat mobile QB like Brady, Rodgers, Manning or Brees would've shifted the pocket or at least had a more productive results. I'm still not certain of whether Schaub or Kubiak is more at fault. Is Kubiak completely shackling Schaub or does Schaub just suck that bad at reading a defense. I kinda lean towards Kubiak being more at fault until I watch video of Schaub.

I kinda lean towards Schaub's inadequacies shackling Kubiak .... Kubiak has shown the ability to get receiver's open while Schaub hasn't shown he can move , throw a dart or hit a guy accurately deep .... even Kevin Walter had to hit the brakes and wait on balls from the noodle armed statue.

Tailgate
09-23-2013, 09:30 PM
Lots of problems... But the CORE problem is the O-line. It is the foundation of the system and this team.

Where is Alex Gibbs these days?

DocBar
09-23-2013, 09:32 PM
I kinda lean towards Schaub's inadequacies shackling Kubiak .... Kubiak has shown the ability to get receiver's open while Schaub hasn't shown he can move , throw a dart or hit a guy accurately deep .... even Kevin Walter had to hit the brakes and wait on balls from the noodle armed statue.So you agree that more athletic QB play could lead to better offensive performances? Didn't Yates and Keenum both prove to be more athletic, just as athletic and have a good grasp of the offensive system? What's the big damn deal?

SchaubApologist
09-23-2013, 09:40 PM
Lots of problems... But the CORE problem is the O-line. It is the foundation of the system and this team.

Where is Alex Gibbs these days?

Schaub has only been sacked 7 times through 3 games. That is only 2.35 per game, which is acceptable by NFL standards.

And lets be real here.. It's not like Schaub is avoiding sacks & deflating his sack total.

The problem is Schaub's confidence. He has a 39.5 QBR through 3 games, and his accuracy has been suspect.

We are witnessing a continuation of his struggles from late last season.

I thought Kubiak would install some new wrinkles this off season to help him out, but apparently not.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 09:42 PM
So you agree that more athletic QB play could lead to better offensive performances? Didn't Yates and Keenum both prove to be more athletic, just as athletic and have a good grasp of the offensive system? What's the big damn deal?

And one of those showed to be deadly accurate deep.

dream_team
09-23-2013, 09:50 PM
And one of those showed to be deadly accurate deep.

You mean Yates who threw 4 accurate interceptions to the Ravens two seasons ago?

I don't quite remember seeing Case throw any deep balls yet in the NFL.

dream_team
09-23-2013, 09:56 PM
The OL

http://i42.tinypic.com/k2n3ba.gif

http://i44.tinypic.com/o0t5pf.gif

http://i41.tinypic.com/24c7fqh.gif

Even Brady or the all mighty Rodgers couldnt get a pass off with this kind of protection. Rush 4 drop 7....... daaaaaaam.

Schaub didn't have a good game yesterday... but the OL (namely pass pro) hasn't looked as good in years past.

Schaub has shortcomings, he's not perfect nor close to "elite"... so the team needs to help him out, by giving him a clean pocket.

Texan_Bill
09-23-2013, 09:57 PM
Re: The real problem is.....

Well the real problem are the fans.........

After 3 games, admittedly well not played by the Texans, they are 2-1! I wonder how Ravens fans felt after getting spanked by 30 here, last year before going on to win the SB last year...


Overreaction is the new NFL!!!

DocBar
09-23-2013, 10:02 PM
You mean Yates who threw 4 accurate interceptions to the Ravens two seasons ago?

I don't quite remember seeing Case throw any deep balls yet in the NFL. Yes, he means that Yates. That would seem an improvement ove the accurate Schaub who has thrown 2 pick sixes in the 3 games this season. Why not give Yates the benefit of the doubt, based on his offseason performance, that he isn't the same wide-eyed rookie that he was two years ago? Do you think he's been in stasis since? You don't think he's been studying and learning the playbook? You think trading up to get some rookie QB next year will cure all our woes? Maybe I should change all of those "thinks" to "feels" because all of those thinks show a serious lack of thinking and a whole bunch of feeling. Any rational fan would want to see the vastly more experienced Yates come in rather than some rookie. Texan fans experienced that from 2002-2006.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:03 PM
Let's get real. This is what Keenum did against the cowboys starting defense.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/HIGHLIGHTS-Keenum-to-Jean/ef9d5b14-2a63-4c2e-bb66-8d21fbde2246

That's a 50 yard in the air pass from midfield 34 yard line (34.5 really) to five yards deep in the end zone with pinpoint accuracy. He connected twice like this with Jean. That's natural talent that has nothing to do with what defense he's facing.

Sure, they worked on their timing a lot. He did with Martin too then apparently because they were just as on. And AJ is hurt so we need a receiver to step up. His fakes were great, and when he faced pressure he had some wheels on it.

I've really been feeling like we all watched different games during the preseason or something, or just didn't pay attention because Schaub is your man.

Wolf6151
09-23-2013, 10:06 PM
I see Derek Newton and Wade Smith both having a bad day. In the 2nd video watch Derek Newton get off the ground at the very end, he can't bend his right knee. An OT can't play when he's got bad knees. Why is he on the field?

dream_team
09-23-2013, 10:16 PM
Let's get real. This is what Keenum did against the cowboys starting defense.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/HIGHLIGHTS-Keenum-to-Jean/ef9d5b14-2a63-4c2e-bb66-8d21fbde2246

That's a 50 yard in the air pass from midfield 34 yard line (34.5 really) to five yards deep in the end zone with pinpoint accuracy. He connected twice like this with Jean. That's natural talent that has nothing to do with what defense he's facing.

Sure, they worked on their timing a lot. He did with Martin too then apparently because they were just as on. And AJ is hurt so we need a receiver to step up. His fakes were great, and when he faced pressure he had some wheels on it.

I've really been feeling like we all watched different games during the preseason or something, or just didn't pay attention because Schaub is your man.

34 + 5 = 39 yards... not 50. And that is not the starting Dallas defense.

I like Case, I'm extremely happy with him as our 3rd string. Is he ready to the be thrown to the wolves and start over Schaub? I don't know, in fact, i highly doubt it. I don't watch them practice, so I can't truly say. But I do remember alot of the press mention during training camp sessions how Schaub is so far ahead of Yates and Keenum.

So if you were head coach of the Texans, you'd honestly start Case next Sunday?

kingtexan
09-23-2013, 10:17 PM
So if you were head coach of the Texans, you'd honestly start Case next Sunday?

Without hesitation ...

DocBar
09-23-2013, 10:22 PM
Without hesitation ...Me too.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:25 PM
34 + 5 = 39 yards... not 50. And that is not the starting Dallas defense.

I like Case, I'm extremely happy with him as our 3rd string. Is he ready to the be thrown to the wolves and start over Schaub? I don't know, in fact, i highly doubt it. I don't watch them practice, so I can't truly say. But I do remember alot of the press mention during training camp sessions how Schaub is so far ahead of Yates and Keenum.

So if you were head coach of the Texans, you'd honestly start Case next Sunday?

Let's let Pythagoras help you

A^2 + B^2 = C^2

(25.665 x 25.665) + (39.5 x 39.5) = 47.1 yards in the air.

(25.665 x 25.665) + (39 x 39) = 46.6 yards in the air.

Math is good!

dream_team
09-23-2013, 10:26 PM
Me too.

Ummm... didn't you just say this a few posts ago?

Any rational fan would want to see the vastly more experienced Yates come in rather than some rookie. Texan fans experienced that from 2002-2006.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 10:26 PM
34 + 5 = 39 yards... not 50. And that is not the starting Dallas defense.

I like Case, I'm extremely happy with him as our 3rd string. Is he ready to the be thrown to the wolves and start over Schaub? I don't know, in fact, i highly doubt it. I don't watch them practice, so I can't truly say. But I do remember alot of the press mention during training camp sessions how Schaub is so far ahead of Yates and Keenum.

So if you were head coach of the Texans, you'd honestly start Case next Sunday?What has Schaub shown you that says he's ready to be thrown to the wolves? You never know how any QB is going to react to a regular season game until they play one. A bad game loss by Yates or Keenum wouldn't be any worse than the loss we had against the Ravens.

kingtexan
09-23-2013, 10:26 PM
Let's let Pythagoras help you

A^2 + B^2 = C^2

(25.665 x 25.665) + (39.5 x 39.5) = 47.1 yards in the air.

(25.665 x 25.665) + (39 x 39) = 46.6 yards in the air.

Math is good!

The only numbers that mean anything are the ones on the scoreboard when the last second has run off ...

DocBar
09-23-2013, 10:27 PM
The only numbers that mean anything are the ones on the scoreboard when the last second has run off ...Pulling numbers out of your ass ain't exactly math. That makes you a global warmist climatologist. In other words, an idiot. :kitten:

Not directed at you, kingtexan.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:33 PM
But I do remember alot of the press mention during training camp sessions how Schaub is so far ahead of Yates and Keenum.


This is the press kissing up to Kubiak for the good interviews. They have no vested interest as the news in who wins. They want the good interviews because they want us to watch them even if we can't bear to watch the game.

Schaub finished preseason with a 63.5 rating and has gotten worse since. Keenum lead (or was he second?) the nfl with a 106.7. I know he ranked higher than any current starter.

We need a quarterback and we need a receiver. Case is hot with Lestar Jean. Tah-dah. Not that hard.

revan
09-23-2013, 10:37 PM
This is the press kissing up to Kubiak for the good interviews. They have no vested interest as the news in who wins. They want the good interviews because they want us to watch them even if we can't bear to watch the game.

Schaub finished preseason with a 63.5 rating and has gotten worse since. Keenum lead (or was he second?) the nfl with a 106.7. I know he ranked higher than any current starter.

We need a quarterback and we need a receiver. Case is hot with Lestar Jean. Tah-dah. Not that hard.

Like I said and my point in this thread, I'd rather see the OLine fixed first. If Bryan freaken Hoyer can look good behind the awesome OL in Cleveland I'm sure Schaub will excel the same way. I would love to see Keenum play over Yates, but the last thing we want to do us pull another David Carr and throw this kid to the wolves with this line.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 10:39 PM
In the 2nd video watch Derek Newton get off the ground at the very end, he can't bend his right knee. An OT can't play when he's got bad knees. Why is he on the field?

We've got 3 OTs on the roster. Brown (toe), Newton (knee), Harris

We drafted Brennan Williams in the third as insurance in case Newton couldn't get back to his pre injury form. We also drafted David Quesenberry for future development.

Brennan started having knee issues of his own pretty early in the offseason. There was probably some misdiagnosis going on, but the end result is that his knee never got right... we put him on IR.

Q was showing some promise, could play tackle, but I think they thought he would be closer to seeing the field at tackle. He took most of his snaps at tackle. He broke his foot in practice less than a week before opening day. We put him on IR.

They tried to load the roster with people who might be an upgrade at OT, it just didn't work out for us. They didn't bring in a vet, because they had Harris. They weren't going to bring anyone in better than Harris because we don't have the money for it & we don't know how good Harris is. He was a bright spot on Denver's OL before he had injuries of his own..... back I think. He was fairly healthy last season, I think he's 100% this year. Brown's our LT & they want Newton to be our RT, so I don't know that Harris can't play.

He's not a franchise LT, I'm sure he won't play like one. But if Newton continues to struggle I wouldn't be surprised if they slide him over to the right side when Duane comes back.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 10:42 PM
Let's let Pythagoras help you

A^2 + B^2 = C^2

(25.665 x 25.665) + (39.5 x 39.5) = 47.1 yards in the air.

(25.665 x 25.665) + (39 x 39) = 46.6 yards in the air.

Math is good!

That sounds like something I would say.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 10:42 PM
This is the press kissing up to Kubiak for the good interviews. They have no vested interest as the news in who wins. They want the good interviews because they want us to watch them even if we can't bear to watch the game.

Schaub finished preseason with a 63.5 rating and has gotten worse since. Keenum lead (or was he second?) the nfl with a 106.7. I know he ranked higher than any current starter.

We need a quarterback and we need a receiver. Case is hot with Lestar Jean. Tah-dah. Not that hard. DHop has shown he's a very capable #2 and can take over a game if AJ is out. The Texans are only lacking talent at QB and OL on the offensive side of the ball. And only part of the OL. A better QB could mask the lack of talent on the OL easier than the reciprocal.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:43 PM
The only numbers that mean anything are the ones on the scoreboard when the last second has run off ...

Pulling numbers out of your ass ain't exactly math. That makes you a global warmist climatologist. In other words, an idiot. :kitten:

Not directed at you, kingtexan.

Seriously?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem

That's basic math. Keenum threw the ball from the center of the field on the 34.5 yard line to one yard away from the sideline and 5 yards deep in the end zone. That's a distance of 39.5 yards. The field is 53.33 yards wide. Half of that is 26.665, subtract a yard off that for how far away from the line Jean was and you get 25.665

Use the above link and do that. The ball flew 47.1 yards in the air with pinpoint accuracy. He made the same connection to Jean twice already. That's natural talent. Being able to throw that perfect that far, puts touchdowns on the board.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:46 PM
Like I said and my point in this thread, I'd rather see the OLine fixed first. If Bryan freaken Hoyer can look good behind the awesome OL in Cleveland I'm sure Schaub will excel the same way. I would love to see Keenum play over Yates, but the last thing we want to do us pull another David Carr and throw this kid to the wolves with this line.

Keenum took 2 seconds to get that play off. Our offensive line gave protection to Schaub in the videos you posted as examples of horrible O Line for a full 3 seconds. What's the issue?

Texan_Bill
09-23-2013, 10:47 PM
Meh!.. ............. 2-1 Equals .667.

With a win against Seattle, 3-1, or a .750 winning percentage! I can live with that!

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:49 PM
Meh!.. ............. 2-1 Equals .667.

With a win against Seattle, 3-1, or a .750 winning percentage! I can live with that!

I think we all could.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:50 PM
But my math is still right. That's how far that boy threw that ball.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 10:51 PM
Seriously?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem

That's basic math. Keenum threw the ball from the center of the field on the 34.5 yard line to one yard away from the sideline and 5 yards deep in the end zone. That's a distance of 39.5 yards. The field is 53.33 yards wide. Half of that is 26.665, subtract a yard off that for how far away from the line Jean was and you get 25.665

Use the above link and do that. The ball flew 47.1 yards in the air with pinpoint accuracy. He made the same connection to Jean twice already. That's natural talent. Being able to throw that perfect that far, puts touchdowns on the board.I never said Pythagorean's theorem was BS. I said you pulling passing numbers out of your ass is.

Let's not forget that Jean has shown a trend of dropping passes and getting holding penalties. And let's also not forget that AJ, DHop, Martin, OD and Graham have shown themselves to be very reliable. Martin is the weak link among those, but is still pretty reliable. Keenum showed famiarity with all of those but AJ and OD. They didn't play much at all in PS.

I also highly doubt that Kubiak benches one of those guys just because Keenum started a game. You don't bench starter quality players for bench players just because a bench player is starting.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:54 PM
I never said Pythagorean's theorem was BS. I said you pulling passing numbers out of your ass is.

Let's not forget that Jean has shown a trend of dropping passes and getting holding penalties. And let's also not forget that AJ, DHop, Martin, OD and Graham have shown themselves to be very reliable. Martin is the weak link among those, but is still pretty reliable. Keenum showed famiarity with all of those but AJ and OD. They didn't play much at all in PS.

I also highly doubt that Kubiak benches one of those guys just because Keenum started a game. You don't bench starter quality players for bench players just because a bench player is starting.

When they're thrown behind him and in the dirt, yep. There's been a lot of dropped passes. Accuracy counts. He has had a couple of penalties, but he's produced far more than he's been penalized.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 10:56 PM
When they're thrown behind him and in the dirt, yep. There's been a lot of dropped passes. Accuracy counts. He has had a couple of penalties, but he's produced far more than he's been penalized.I guess you got this opinion from Wiki, too. Jean has done OK but he's way more inconsistent than the other WR's.

Corrosion
09-23-2013, 10:56 PM
So you agree that more athletic QB play could lead to better offensive performances? Didn't Yates and Keenum both prove to be more athletic, just as athletic and have a good grasp of the offensive system? What's the big damn deal?

A few million dollars .... They have to admit that the contract they handed Schaub early last season was a mistake. :thinking:

waynegg
09-23-2013, 10:57 PM
But don't like Jean, fine. He'll be a star though. Watch. Keenum is just as on with Martin, DHop, and Graham. I don't recall seeing him hook up with AJ. I'll look for a video.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 10:57 PM
Keenum took 2 seconds to get that play off. Our offensive line gave protection to Schaub in the videos you posted as examples of horrible O Line for a full 3 seconds. What's the issue?

How many receiver do we have that can run the 40 in 2 seconds with full pads?

DocBar
09-23-2013, 11:00 PM
A few million dollars .... They have to admit that the contract they handed Schaub early last season was a mistake. :thinking:I completely agree but then I look at what Pete Carrol did with Wilson and what Harbaugh did with Kaepernick and say WTF??? Why can't Kubiak have the stones to do that? It took MAJOY HUEVOS for Carrol to name Wilson the starter after signing what's his name to a FA contract. Just let the best man start and screw the money. Just win, baby.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 11:00 PM
I guess you got this opinion from Wiki, too. Jean has done OK but he's way more inconsistent than the other WR's.

I got this from watching him play...

DocBar
09-23-2013, 11:01 PM
I got this from watching him play...So you have vision problems, too? Man, you're a train wreck.

revan
09-23-2013, 11:01 PM
Keenum took 2 seconds to get that play off. Our offensive line gave protection to Schaub in the videos you posted as examples of horrible O Line for a full 3 seconds. What's the issue?

LMAO!!!!!!! You are seriously comparing Keenums preseason games vs second and third stringers to yesterday's game???!!!! Hahahahaha. Dude why are you even getting all defensive?. I'm a Keenum fan too, I would like to see a coaching change too, what.........is..........your problem?!

waynegg
09-23-2013, 11:02 PM
How many receiver do we have that can run the 40 in 2 seconds with full pads?
None. The pass was off well before he got there. Watch the video I dug up and linked. That's how you lead the receiver. If you wait til he's already there, where do you think the defender is going to be?

waynegg
09-23-2013, 11:05 PM
LMAO!!!!!!! You are seriously comparing Keenums preseason games vs second and third stringers to yesterday's game???!!!! Hahahahaha. Dude why are you even getting all defensive?. I'm a Keenum fan too, I would like to see a coaching change too, what.........is..........your problem?!

He played against the cowboy's STARTING DEFENSE for the entire half.

But no, I'm comparing Schaub getting crunched in 3 seconds before he could even look at the play to attempt to get a play off to Keenum getting off beauties like what he showed in the preseason in 2 seconds. Which would leave a whole second to spare. And they aren't tolerating late hits on QBs this year...

waynegg
09-23-2013, 11:17 PM
Surely you see what I'm saying. The offensive line is is adequate. Keenum will get flattened here and there. That's unavoidable with any line. He's shown he knows how to get down when he needs to.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 11:27 PM
Surely you see what I'm saying. The offensive line is is adequate. Keenum will get flattened here and there. That's unavoidable with any line. He's shown he knows how to get down when he needs to.I'm a Keenum fan, also. I just like him. Having said that, there is absolutely no way that he starts a game this season unless we suffer an injury barrage at QB like we witnessed in 2011. If that happens, expect Kubiak to go even more conservative because that means he has no good QB as a back up. The more likely bet is that Schaub gets hurt or "hurt" and Yates takes over. There is a 0% likelihood that Keenum gets a start over Yates.

waynegg
09-23-2013, 11:33 PM
I'm a Keenum fan, also. I just like him. Having said that, there is absolutely no way that he starts a game this season unless we suffer an injury barrage at QB like we witnessed in 2011. If that happens, expect Kubiak to go even more conservative because that means he has no good QB as a back up. The more likely bet is that Schaub gets hurt or "hurt" and Yates takes over. There is a 0% likelihood that Keenum gets a start over Yates.

So you're saying they don't believe in their slogan of Super Bowl whatever it takes?

DocBar
09-23-2013, 11:38 PM
So you're saying they don't believe in their slogan of Super Bowl whatever it takes?Yes, I am saying that.

deucetx
09-23-2013, 11:41 PM
We've got 3 OTs on the roster. Brown (toe), Newton (knee), Harris

We drafted Brennan Williams in the third as insurance in case Newton couldn't get back to his pre injury form. We also drafted David Quesenberry for future development.



We have four. You're forgetting Andrew Gardner who ironically was the best one during preseason. But, eh, it's preseason and the others have more experience so I can see why Kube and staff have him behind Harris and such. But if things continue, like you said, changes may be made. At some point go to make these guys responsible for their play.

Coolhand_Luke
09-23-2013, 11:48 PM
Couldn't agree more!!

Our O-line is junk so far. three pro-bowlers up front playing like three stooges. That couples with Matt Schaub....Oh God, where do we go from here????

waynegg
09-23-2013, 11:49 PM
I'm a Keenum fan, also. I just like him. Having said that, there is absolutely no way that he starts a game this season unless we suffer an injury barrage at QB like we witnessed in 2011. If that happens, expect Kubiak to go even more conservative because that means he has no good QB as a back up. The more likely bet is that Schaub gets hurt or "hurt" and Yates takes over. There is a 0% likelihood that Keenum gets a start over Yates.

Not that it matters, but college ball has never interested me so I had no clue who he was until he turned up on the team. I read up on him and what he did in Houston was amazing. The difference in how the rest of the team played when he was out injured and how the same team played with him was profound. I think he could have what it takes, and it would suck for him to get pine all over his ass and ruin that. It would suck even more if he said eff you and followed the contract offers once his 2-year runs out at the end of the season...

steelbtexan
09-23-2013, 11:55 PM
Schaub has only been sacked 7 times through 3 games. That is only 2.35 per game, which is acceptable by NFL standards.

And lets be real here.. It's not like Schaub is avoiding sacks & deflating his sack total.

The problem is Schaub's confidence. He has a 39.5 QBR through 3 games, and his accuracy has been suspect.

We are witnessing a continuation of his struggles from late last season.

I thought Kubiak would install some new wrinkles this off season to help him out, but apparently not.

Schaub's foot is making him statue like and is causing most of his accuracy problems.

Go back and check out Schaub's preinjury 2009-2010 seasons and compare them to last yr and the begining of this yr. It's quite telling.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 11:55 PM
Not that it matters, but college ball has never interested me so I had no clue who he was until he turned up on the team. I read up on him and what he did in Houston was amazing. The difference in how the rest of the team played when he was out injured and how the same team played with him was profound. I think he could have what it takes, and it would suck for him to get pine all over his ass and ruin that. It would suck even more if he said eff you and followed the contract offers once his 2-year runs out at the end of the season...I'm with you. I vaguely follow college sports. Yates and Keenum both showed me that they understand this offense and can execute it.

It's so obvious that Schaub can't get the job done that I wouldn't hesitate to start either one over Schaub. I believe that the best man should have the starting job, regardless of position or draft status.

waynegg
09-24-2013, 12:13 AM
I'm with you. I vaguely follow college sports. Yates and Keenum both showed me that they understand this offense and can execute it.

It's so obvious that Schaub can't get the job done that I wouldn't hesitate to start either one over Schaub. I believe that the best man should have the starting job, regardless of position or draft status.

...or salary the owner wants them to "earn" since they're paying them so much. I'm not against Yates by a long shot. Love him. Keenum just looks like he has more. His college record illustrates he knows how to motivate his team and get the best out of what he has to work with and has the apples to take his team as far as they can go.

DocBar
09-24-2013, 12:17 AM
Schaub's foot is making him statue like and is causing most of his accuracy problems.

Go back and check out Schaub's preinjury 2009-2010 seasons and compare them to last yr and the begining of this yr. It's quite telling.Then start the better QB. Have some balls as a coach and/or GM. Swallow your pride and pull the trigger. It has worked famously in the past.

Lucky
09-24-2013, 01:43 AM
Schaub has shortcomings, he's not perfect nor close to "elite"... so the team needs to help him out, by giving him a clean pocket.
I think that's what bothering some fans the most. Everyone has to help Schaub be the best he can be. The line has to be perfect, he has to have stars across the board at receiver, he needs a great running game. When does Schaub make the other players better? When can he mask their weaknesses?

No, the team around Schaub is not perfect. But Denver has had issues on their o-line and are lacking a running game. The Pats are decimated at receiver. Yet, their QBs mask these problems. OK, Schaub is not a HOFer like Manning or Brady. Then what is he? If he's a game manager, Schaub's doing an excellent job of managing to put up points for the opposition.
Well the real problem are the fans...
Yeah, right. Yes, 2-1 is better than 1-2, or 0-3. Not as good as 3-0. We get that. Still, I think it's OK to discuss what we see on the field on not just the final score.

thunderkyss
09-24-2013, 09:45 AM
I completely agree but then I look at what Pete Carrol did with Wilson and what Harbaugh did with Kaepernick and say WTF??? Why can't Kubiak have the stones to do that? It took MAJOY HUEVOS for Carrol to name Wilson the starter after signing what's his name to a FA contract. Just let the best man start and screw the money. Just win, baby.

It's not about stones. He's content with the QB we have, no sense in spending a day one pick on a QB.

buddyboy
09-24-2013, 10:13 AM
You're not breaking news here.. We are aware of the OL, but a good QB (which Schaub is paid to be) can overcome/mask a lot of that (which he has not).

Some might say the "sunshine pumpers" are the delusional ones, but it's THIS mentality that is the most delusional. The Schaub haters are the ones who have themselves convinced that it's one guy who's holding this team back, and if we can JUST change that one guy, we'll be set.

While some of us acknowledge that football is a team game and that there are multiple glaring weaknesses of this team and there is no "quick fix" bandaid.

But yeah, we can make Schaub the scapegoat, put all the blame on him, and cross our fingers and tell ourselves that once the bad bad man is gone everything will be roses and rainbows.

buddyboy
09-24-2013, 10:16 AM
...or salary the owner wants them to "earn" since they're paying them so much. I'm not against Yates by a long shot. Love him. Keenum just looks like he has more. His college record illustrates he knows how to motivate his team and get the best out of what he has to work with and has the apples to take his team as far as they can go.

If what you did in college and how well you did in a short stint was indicative of your NFL success, Vince Young would be a star in this league.

cstyle42
09-24-2013, 10:24 AM
Manning is shredding the Oakland defense throwing into double-coverages ... without a starting LT ... and with a four surgery neck and not much mobility. And you are saying our QB isn't the issue? Oh, ok ...

Ok... this is just plain true.

cstyle42
09-24-2013, 10:28 AM
It's not about stones. He's content with the QB we have, no sense in spending a day one pick on a QB.

What is really be said is there is no sense in doing what it takes to win a superbowl.

Corrosion
09-24-2013, 10:32 AM
It's not about stones. He's content with the QB we have, no sense in spending a day one pick on a QB.

I don't think that's the case.

I think he realizes that he has no better option and likely cant acquire a better option .... and that even by drafting a QB in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to immediately or ever be a better option ....

Then we have to realize that they had a huge need at the WR spot too and took what appears to be a very good one which should have made Schuab better ...


Bottom line , the team was in win now mode during this past offseason (and still is) and drafting a QB early would have limited them in that pursuit.


In hindsight , I wish they woulda used at least one of the picks spent on B.Williams , T.Williams & Montgomery on a QB .... as they were totally wasted from all appearances.

buddyboy
09-24-2013, 10:34 AM
Ok... this is just plain true.

Literally every team (except those who already have one) want one of those mythical 3-4 ELITE QBs. That's 32 teams vying for 3-4 players. If your standard for a QB is that, don't hold your breath, we'll be waiting for a while, just by probability/statistics.

thunderkyss
09-24-2013, 10:36 AM
While some of us acknowledge that football is a team game and that there are multiple glaring weaknesses of this team and there is no "quick fix" bandaid.



Eh.... kinda. When Matt Schaub took over for David Carr.. or Sage took over for David... the OL looked better immediately. QBs who knew how to read a defense quickly, make decisions quickly, & get rid of the ball hid a lot of our OL deficiencies.

If Matt can't do that anymore, we need to find someone who can, or someone who can escape pressure & allow the routes to develop.

I'm not a Matt hater, but I do see both sides of the argument. He touches the ball more than anyone else on offense, giving him the most influence on how this offense develops. If we want to open the running lanes for Arian & Tate, we've got to get the ball down the field... even if it's going to be an incompletion. The defenses are going to make you prove that you can & will test them. Matt Schaub is a hundred times better than David Carr, but I think the final straw was that David couldn't find a way to make the defenses respect all that God given talent in his right arm.

Matt doesn't have an arm like that, but he can put that ball up along the sideline, just like Flacco did. Either our guy is going to get the ball, a penalty called against the other team, or it's going out of bounds. That ball he threw to Hop, was almost what we needed. But he threw it so far out of bounds, DeAndre couldn't have made a play on it if he wanted to. We got a holding penalty instead of a PI & the defense didn't buy his bluff.

buddyboy
09-24-2013, 10:41 AM
Eh.... kinda. When Matt Schaub took over for David Carr.. or Sage took over for David... the OL looked better immediately. QBs who knew how to read a defense quickly, make decisions quickly, & get rid of the ball hid a lot of our OL deficiencies.

If Matt can't do that anymore, we need to find someone who can, or someone who can escape pressure & allow the routes to develop.

I'm not a Matt hater, but I do see both sides of the argument. He touches the ball more than anyone else on offense, giving him the most influence on how this offense develops. If we want to open the running lanes for Arian & Tate, we've got to get the ball down the field... even if it's going to be an incompletion. The defenses are going to make you prove that you can & will test them. Matt Schaub is a hundred times better than David Carr, but I think the final straw was that David couldn't find a way to make the defenses respect all that God given talent in his right arm.

Matt doesn't have an arm like that, but he can put that ball up along the sideline, just like Flacco did. Either our guy is going to get the ball, a penalty called against the other team, or it's going out of bounds. That ball he threw to Hop, was almost what we needed. But he threw it so far out of bounds, DeAndre couldn't have made a play on it if he wanted to. We got a holding penalty instead of a PI & the defense didn't buy his bluff.

No, I completely agree a better QB will make this team better. Duh, right?

The question is a) where to find that QB and b) how much better? I disagree with the sentiment that Schaub is the weakness that, once solved, will make the team perform up to our expectations.

Schaub needs to play better than he showed in the last two weeks. I know he's capable of it (unless the injury really took that much out of him). But we saw it on week 1, so we know that MS is in there, somewhere. We just have to get into the playoffs and hope he's emerged and is clicking.

thunderkyss
09-24-2013, 10:41 AM
I don't think that's the case.

I think he realizes that he has no better option and likely cant acquire a better option .... and that even by drafting a QB in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to immediately or ever be a better option ....


That's the situation we're in now, because he is content with the QB he has.

If he felt there were issues at the QB position, then it would have been worth it to draft Kaepernick with a second, Wilson with a third, or even sign Henne (who I think Kubiak can make a starter of).

But he didn't. We have what we have. If he thinks Tj or Keenum can start.... I'm fine with that. If he thinks he can win a Super Bowl with either of them, he's going to have to show me.

If he doesn't think he can win a Super Bowl with Tj or Keenum & he thinks there are issues with Matt, I don't understand why Tj or Keenum is on the roster & some other developmental guy isn't.

cstyle42
09-24-2013, 10:48 AM
Literally every team (except those who already have one) want one of those mythical 3-4 ELITE QBs. That's 32 teams vying for 3-4 players. If your standard for a QB is that, don't hold your breath, we'll be waiting for a while, just by probability/statistics.

We don't need elite we need a mobile qb not one that runs super fast but one that is balanced throwing, running and calling the count. Schaub is just a game manager.

steelbtexan
09-24-2013, 10:53 AM
Some might say the "sunshine pumpers" are the delusional ones, but it's THIS mentality that is the most delusional. The Schaub haters are the ones who have themselves convinced that it's one guy who's holding this team back, and if we can JUST change that one guy, we'll be set.

While some of us acknowledge that football is a team game and that there are multiple glaring weaknesses of this team and there is no "quick fix" bandaid.

But yeah, we can make Schaub the scapegoat, put all the blame on him, and cross our fingers and tell ourselves that once the bad bad man is gone everything will be roses and rainbows.

Nope, I'm speaking for myself, but I dont think Schaub's the guy to lead the team to a SB.

If that's the case then it's time to find out if the other QB's on the roster could possibly be the guy. If not then it's time to draft a QB. Every day Schaub is the starting QB is another day they dont find out what the teams future is.

steelbtexan
09-24-2013, 10:54 AM
Some might say the "sunshine pumpers" are the delusional ones, but it's THIS mentality that is the most delusional. The Schaub haters are the ones who have themselves convinced that it's one guy who's holding this team back, and if we can JUST change that one guy, we'll be set.

While some of us acknowledge that football is a team game and that there are multiple glaring weaknesses of this team and there is no "quick fix" bandaid.

But yeah, we can make Schaub the scapegoat, put all the blame on him, and cross our fingers and tell ourselves that once the bad bad man is gone everything will be roses and rainbows.

Nope, I'm speaking for myself, but I dont think Schaub's the guy to lead the team to a SB.

If that's the case then it's time to find out if the other QB's on the roster could possibly be the guy. If not then it's time to draft a QB. Every day Schaub is the starting QB is another day they dont find out what the teams future is.

buddyboy
09-24-2013, 10:56 AM
We don't need elite we need a mobile qb not one that runs super fast but one that is balanced throwing, running and calling the count. Schaub is just a game manager.

The post I quoted was you lusting after Peyton Manning. Not exactly the mobile qb you're talking about now.

buddyboy
09-24-2013, 10:59 AM
Nope, I'm speaking for myself, but I dont think Schaub's the guy to lead the team to a SB.

If that's the case then it's time to find out if the other QB's on the roster could possibly be the guy. If not then it's time to draft a QB. Every day Schaub is the starting QB is another day they dont find out what the teams future is.

That's a reasonable perspective. If our goal is SB, and you don't believe a QB/WR/TE/Coach will take you there, then it's perfectly reasonable. Should we start Yates then? Keenum? We should give every QB a flier, right?

beerlover
09-24-2013, 11:05 AM
Nope, I'm speaking for myself, but I dont think Schaub's the guy to lead the team to a SB.

If that's the case then it's time to find out if the other QB's on the roster could possibly be the guy. If not then it's time to draft a QB. Every day Schaub is the starting QB is another day they dont find out what the teams future is.

feels like we're stuck in quicksand doesn't it :smiliepalm:

steelbtexan
09-24-2013, 11:27 AM
I don't think that's the case.

I think he realizes that he has no better option and likely cant acquire a better option .... and that even by drafting a QB in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to immediately or ever be a better option ....

Then we have to realize that they had a huge need at the WR spot too and took what appears to be a very good one which should have made Schuab better ...


Bottom line , the team was in win now mode during this past offseason (and still is) and drafting a QB early would have limited them in that pursuit.


In hindsight , I wish they woulda used at least one of the picks spent on B.Williams , T.Williams & Montgomery on a QB .... as they were totally wasted from all appearances.

Unfortunately Gary picked the wrong guy to lead this franchise. (Schaub, due to injury, IMHO)

The question is where does he go from here? It's obvious to ME that Schaub isn't the guy to lead this team to a SB, So every day Schaub is in there is another day that could be spent seeing if T.J. or Case is the future of this franchise.

It upsets me that those picks were wasted. But last yr was a terrible QB yr. If you remember I mocked Bray in the 1st rd. He went undrafted but he made the Cheifs roster and appears to be their QB of the future.

This upcoming draft is the yr to get a QB. The draft is fairly loaded at QB. This is the only reason I would keep Gary around if the team falls on its face is I think he would be the ideal guy to figure out which QB to draft.

Although most HC's only get 1 shot at picking their QB. If it doesn't work out then they're fired. I doubt BoB holds Gary to this standard, since BoB has proven in the past that he doesn't hold people in the on the field product side of his business accountable.

Coach Joe must GO

CloakNNNdagger
09-24-2013, 11:28 AM
Schaub has basically turned into a blindered one-trick pony.......on one foot.........


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsaw25nL7Q1r3mhhio1_500.png


Andre! Andre! Wherefore art though, Andrea? My kingdom for an Andre!

Double Barrel
09-24-2013, 12:13 PM
Even Brady or the all mighty Rodgers couldnt get a pass off with this kind of protection. Rush 4 drop 7....... daaaaaaam.

You cannot compare Hall of Fame destined QBs with championship pedigree with Matt Schaub.

Well, you can compare, of course, but it would be foolish to expect the same level of performance from Schaub that you would get from Brady or Rogers.

Besides, those guys are like OCs at the LOS, reading, adjusting, and taking on the blitz with audibles and quick release passes.

Kubiak's offense does not allow broad flexibility. Schaub can change some things, but nothing near what other QBs can do at the LOS. Either by design, or due to skill limitations, the Texans offense is fairly simple in that regard (this according to Sage Rosenfelds).

I kinda lean towards Schaub's inadequacies shackling Kubiak .... Kubiak has shown the ability to get receiver's open while Schaub hasn't shown he can move , throw a dart or hit a guy accurately deep .... even Kevin Walter had to hit the brakes and wait on balls from the noodle armed statue.

I think Kubiak could do a lot with a better skilled QB. However, it is Kubiak's decision to make Schaub the man, so ultimately, he lives and dies with that decision and Schaub's performances.

Do you think Kubiak will outlast Schaub with the Texans? I think McNair will give him more than enough patience, but how long will Kubiak keep his wagon tied to Schaub's horse?

Hervoyel
09-24-2013, 12:45 PM
feels like we're stuck in quicksand doesn't it :smiliepalm:

I just watch years pile up on Andre Johnson and think "Man, you got so screwed here in Houston." First they draft him and pair him with Carr who can't see the field for more than a couple of seconds before he sacks himself or dumps it to the RB and then he gets a glimmer of hope with a real offense only to waste three years of his career while Gary learns that DC's don't grow on trees. Finally as he closes in on the last few years he has left we watch Kubiak cling to this inconsistent, immobile (but loyal and obedient!) sloth of a QB.

Teams today change constantly. Every team changes from year to year at a much faster rate than they did 15-20 years ago. The teams that succeed in this environment aren't afraid to make changes because they manage their cap space well and draft well. We've done some of that but we still let players go before we have viable alternatives and we still hold on to guys too long who have hit their peak and aren't going to be part of the equation that puts us in the Super Bowl. Kevin Walter wasn't replaced for years while viable WR's fell out of the ****ing sky all around us. We address problems with this team like we're moving in slow motion and that's why they pile up.

Look how fast teams around us rebuild and address problems. The Colts are two years from complete disaster and beating on the door again. We keep grinding away though. Slow and steady wins the race...

Matt's the perfect QB for this team because that's how the Texans plod through life always slowly working toward their goal which is just out of reach.

****'s frustrating at times but it won't change so what can you do? Just hope they win enough to get to the postseason and pray for some magic ju-ju to kick in. That's the only way we're going to win past the first round.

Thorn
09-24-2013, 12:48 PM
I don't know what the real problem with the Texans is. But I do know they have problems and it's pissing me off. I can tell you this, I don't like Schaub or Kubiak. However you can't blame everything on Schaub or Kubiak, but you can blame a lot of them. Our super bowl window is shrinking.

thunderkyss
09-24-2013, 12:48 PM
You cannot compare Hall of Fame destined QBs with championship pedigree with Matt Schaub.


So if we know this, why aren't we focusing on getting our run game to work the way it's supposed to work, or our defense to tighten up on these big plays.

CloakNNNdagger
09-24-2013, 02:48 PM
So if we know this, why aren't we focusing on getting our run game to work the way it's supposed to work, or our defense to tighten up on these big plays.

It's not like they haven't tried. But it's easier for teams to focus most of their defensive efforts on stopping the run, when you know that for whatever reason it's just a matter of when, not if, the passing game is going to break down.

gafftop
09-24-2013, 03:11 PM
Unfortunately Gary picked the wrong guy to lead this franchise. (Schaub, due to injury, IMHO)

The question is where does he go from here? It's obvious to ME that Schaub isn't the guy to lead this team to a SB, So every day Schaub is in there is another day that could be spent seeing if T.J. or Case is the future of this franchise.

It upsets me that those picks were wasted. But last yr was a terrible QB yr. If you remember I mocked Bray in the 1st rd. He went undrafted but he made the Cheifs roster and appears to be their QB of the future.

This upcoming draft is the yr to get a QB. The draft is fairly loaded at QB. This is the only reason I would keep Gary around if the team falls on its face is I think he would be the ideal guy to figure out which QB to draft.

Although most HC's only get 1 shot at picking their QB. If it doesn't work out then they're fired. I doubt BoB holds Gary to this standard, since BoB has proven in the past that he doesn't hold people in the on the field product side of his business accountable.

Coach Joe must GO

Great post. The only thing I question is that GK is a QB guru. It seems he is just given that title. See Matt Leinart and Dave Orlovsky

Double Barrel
09-24-2013, 03:30 PM
So if we know this, why aren't we focusing on getting our run game to work the way it's supposed to work, or our defense to tighten up on these big plays.

Good questions, but maybe Kubiak still believes that Schaub has the potential...

Or...maybe the playcalling has become predictable to the point where they are unable to get a freakin' touchdown when they are 1st and goal inside the 5 yard line. And that's one of my barometers for great teams. Can they score a TD when they have three chances to get less than 5 yards? The Texans end up settling for FGs way too often.

Wolf6151
09-24-2013, 03:55 PM
A few million dollars .... They have to admit that the contract they handed Schaub early last season was a mistake. :thinking:

I remember one of the first press conferences/speeches that Kubiak gave his first day on the job 7+ yrs. ago. He said he didn't care how much money a player made or where they were drafted, he was going to play the best players that gave the team a chance to win. Fast forward to the present and he's now playing the guys with the biggest contract because to do otherwise would be admitting that they made a mistake. So we're playing Schaub because someones ego would get bruised otherwise. :smiliepalm: Pitiful.

cstyle42
09-24-2013, 07:00 PM
The post I quoted was you lusting after Peyton Manning. Not exactly the mobile qb you're talking about now.

We just need a qb with intangibles. Schaub has no intangibles. I mention Manning because he was a free agent courting Houston and McNair says what? We got Schaub we have full faith in Schaub. Schaub is bs and everyone knows it. Most knew it way back then. At this point I know we can't get Manning but with how great this team is outside the current starting qb we can win a superbowl with a qb that can challenge the defense with his feet, head and arm... Schaub simply can't do it.

SacHawk
09-24-2013, 07:06 PM
We just need a qb with intangibles. Schaub has no intangibles.

What about his hair?

cstyle42
09-24-2013, 07:09 PM
What about his hair?

Is that you David Carr?

amazing80
09-24-2013, 07:22 PM
The problem on this team is coaching .The players take on their coaches persona and its a soft passive one. Were undisciplined, in slow motion and have no desire to destroy teams. Our special teams has been junk for years and nothing changes. Our secondary is still trash after dumping money into the last few seasons. Wade still runs a soft defense in the secondary even after being dominated by passing teams for years now. Our head coach won't change his play calling or design even though it fails in the red zone over and over again. Its the same trash just a new season. Regular season champions have arrived. Gold stars for everyone, because participation means more than winning these days.

Corrosion
09-24-2013, 08:16 PM
I think Kubiak could do a lot with a better skilled QB. However, it is Kubiak's decision to make Schaub the man, so ultimately, he lives and dies with that decision and Schaub's performances.

Do you think Kubiak will outlast Schaub with the Texans? I think McNair will give him more than enough patience, but how long will Kubiak keep his wagon tied to Schaub's horse?


Yes , Gary hitched his wagon to Schaub .... but he just isn't the same QB he was prior to injury. His play has fallen off significantly both mentally and physically.

I don't know if Gary survives Schaub or not ... but we are likely stuck with the statue for the duration of this season tho if they don't live up to the expectations of a deep playoff run , I think they may part ways with him , especially if it is proven his mistakes are the main reason behind failure.

thunderkyss
09-24-2013, 08:32 PM
Yes , Gary hitched his wagon to Schaub .... but he just isn't the same QB he was prior to injury. His play has fallen off significantly both mentally and physically.



What's the evidence of this again? He hit his "avg" numbers more or less in 12 games last year. He might not have passed the eyeball test, but his stats from our divisional game matched his avg game. He looked great in San Diego.

SchaubApologist
09-24-2013, 08:37 PM
Yes , Gary hitched his wagon to Schaub .... but he just isn't the same QB he was prior to injury. His play has fallen off significantly both mentally and physically.

I don't know if Gary survives Schaub or not ... but we are likely stuck with the statue for the duration of this season tho if they don't live up to the expectations of a deep playoff run , I think they may part ways with him , especially if it is proven his mistakes are the main reason behind failure.

Yep, Gary & Schaub are attached at the hip.

I cannot see one without the other.

If I were a coach there is no way I would get myself into that situation.

DocBar
09-24-2013, 09:39 PM
Yes , Gary hitched his wagon to Schaub .... but he just isn't the same QB he was prior to injury. His play has fallen off significantly both mentally and physically.

I don't know if Gary survives Schaub or not ... but we are likely stuck with the statue for the duration of this season tho if they don't live up to the expectations of a deep playoff run , I think they may part ways with him , especially if it is proven his mistakes are the main reason behind failure.Hopefully Kubiak goes all Harbaugh and throws Yates to "the wolves". With what Yates showed in the preseason that may end up being throwing the wolves to the grizzlies. Yates can run this offense and can move. He may not be RG III but he is mobile.

Texan_Bill
09-24-2013, 09:47 PM
Re: The real problem is.....

Is...........

The Texans wait too long to "fix" things.

Case in point, how long did it take the Texans to get a true threat as a #2 receiver. Kevin Walter was fine (and I respect his game) but DeAndre is a true threat. How long did that take?

The Texans are hitched to Schaub and that's fine, but let's draft a QB in a year where it will be a strong QB class. So what if the guy sits for a year or two behind Schaub? I like Keenum and Yates a lot, but they're not that guy going forward after Schaub's departure.

busterspencer
09-24-2013, 10:03 PM
that was 3 plays......sure they contributed but did they throw the pick 6? did they give up a punt return for a td?

The bottom line is Schaub and special teams is our problem.....no oline is perfect, sacks happen....deal with it

and no QB is perfect...Schaub is way above average, not the best.

buddyboy
09-24-2013, 10:52 PM
I remember one of the first press conferences/speeches that Kubiak gave his first day on the job 7+ yrs. ago. He said he didn't care how much money a player made or where they were drafted, he was going to play the best players that gave the team a chance to win. Fast forward to the present and he's now playing the guys with the biggest contract because to do otherwise would be admitting that they made a mistake. So we're playing Schaub because someones ego would get bruised otherwise. :smiliepalm: Pitiful.

We're playing Schaub because he's better than Keenum or Yates. Simple as that, no conspiracy theories, not egos, not pride.

Corrosion
09-24-2013, 11:01 PM
What's the evidence of this again? He hit his "avg" numbers more or less in 12 games last year. He might not have passed the eyeball test, but his stats from our divisional game matched his avg game. He looked great in San Diego.

The numbers .... I thought the same thing about , they look good on the surface , but as you said , he didn't pass the eyeball test.


You look at the design of the offense and that's where the majority of those numbers come from , not Schaub being extraordinary or doing anything excellent. They have to go out of their way to keep him clean , the entire offense is designed around that principal.

The wheels fell off the offense at the tail end of last season and they haven't been able to solve it to this point - numbers be damned. The only number that matters is the scoreboard.

Lucky
09-24-2013, 11:13 PM
I like Keenum and Yates a lot, but they're not that guy going forward after Schaub's departure.
Maybe not, but they could be a bridge to the next QB.

thunderkyss
09-24-2013, 11:15 PM
Is...........

The Texans wait too long to "fix" things.

Case in point, how long did it take the Texans to get a true threat as a #2 receiver. Kevin Walter was fine (and I respect his game) but DeAndre is a true threat. How long did that take?


If Posey turns into the player he looks like he can be, we're going to be well prepared for life after Andre. Martin is also coming along fine. It took us a while to "fix" the WR2 position, but it wasn't for lack of trying.


The Texans are hitched to Schaub and that's fine, but let's draft a QB in a year where it will be a strong QB class. So what if the guy sits for a year or two behind Schaub? I like Keenum and Yates a lot, but they're not that guy going forward after Schaub's departure.

While I like the idea of sitting a guy & developing him, I don't think that is necessary if you get the right guy. Whether his name is Andy Dalton, Russell Wilson, or Jay Cutler.

There's no guarantee that next years crop of QBs will include a franchise player. It might, might not. We've got QBs on this roster now, that can keep the Texans relevant. While some of us might not be happy if we aren't Super Bowl contenders, I'd be fine with a year of Tj/Case & one and done, then get our QB in 2015 (I don't know if there's a franchise QB in the 2015 class).

What I'd like to see the Texans do, is to start collecting the assets needed to move in the draft to get the players we want. Give us the ability to move up, move down, get the players we need/want regardless of draft position. If we see a Jay Cutler fall out of the top 10, it would be nice to be able to go up & get him.

welsh texan
09-25-2013, 05:27 PM
Sorry TK, I don't believe for a second that this fanbase would be any happier with Andy Dalton at QB than they are with Schaub.

Although the weight of expectation might be slightly lower because we'd only be asking for that one playoff run instead of fretting over our ability to make a really deep run.

Dalton blows hot and cold, the way QBs who start for several years as rookies can do sometimes when they're right on the bubble of being a franchise pick and you can't quite get rid because they might turn the corner ala Drew Brees, or might not ala Alex Smith, HWSNBN.

Not saying Dalton will fail, just that this fanbase would be dogging him at this stage as the limiting factor to a quality cast of non-QB positions.

Cutler takes stick on this board often enough and doesn't even play for us!! No one here is giving Schaub ye benefit of the doubt due to shaky line play, something he's had to deal with for all but maybe 2 of his seasons in Houston?

For all Schaubs issues, he was a good use of 2 #2s, and I'd struggle to name ten players in the league who'd be an immediate upgrade for sure.

All that whilst being certain that we need an upgrade, but for all the **** Kubes is getting for not getting kap or Wilson, I fully support drafting for an elite cast for a new QB to be drafted into either this coming draft or the one after, because i look at the Browns for instance, and see plenty of QBs with talent who never had a chance to make it from the outset because they want to fix the QB position first. Cart before horse IMHO.

thunderkyss
09-25-2013, 08:20 PM
Not saying Dalton will fail, just that this fanbase would be dogging him at this stage as the limiting factor to a quality cast of non-QB positions.


Agreed. But even with his success, Flacco was getting the same treatment at that stage in their career. Dalton has only recently had a team with the talent that Flacco started with, & hopefully (for him, not me) he's got the kind of depth the Ravens had. This might be their year.

Dalton & Schaub are both a few years behind where Flacco is, even though Dalton is several years younger & Schaub is a few years older. Just the way things went, has nothing to do with Dalton or Schaub not being as good as Flacco.

What everyone would like though would have been for Schaub to burn through the postseason the way Rodgers did..... but our team never stayed as healthy as that team Rodgers won the Super Bowl with. We've seen him before & after with a less than 100% team & it's not that pretty.


For all Schaubs issues, he was a good use of 2 #2s, and I'd struggle to name ten players in the league who'd be an immediate upgrade for sure.

All that whilst being certain that we need an upgrade, but for all the **** Kubes is getting for not getting kap or Wilson, I fully support drafting for an elite cast for a new QB to be drafted into either this coming draft or the one after, because i look at the Browns for instance, and see plenty of QBs with talent who never had a chance to make it from the outset because they want to fix the QB position first. Cart before horse IMHO.

I don't know that I would experiment with a Cutler or Gabbert looking for that franchise guy when I've got Schaub. But if I felt there was a guy like Rodgers who slipped in the draft that I felt really good about, or an RG3 I'd like to have the ability to go get him without throwing away our future.

TheRealJoker
09-25-2013, 10:57 PM
With the rookie cap the way it is now having a Qb on his rookie contract gives you a tremendous advantage in terms of talent you can put around him. There's a reason the Seahawks and 49ers have two of the strongest rosters in the league top to bottom. It's because they don't have to pay $100 million for their franchise Qb.

CloakNNNdagger
09-25-2013, 11:04 PM
Some interesting items:


Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 6h

Texans OLB Whitney Mercilus says he was fined $15K 4 what he said was called a helmet 2 helmet hit on Joe Flacco.Mercilus said he'll appeal.

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 7h

Seahawks coach Pete Carroll when asked about J.J. (pause) Watt. "He can go by just his first name."

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 7h

Matt Schaub: "No doubt about it the sense of urgency in this locker room is incredible."

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 8h

Gary Kubiak says Sam Montgomery,moved from OLB 2 DE,putting on weight from eating good food& working out&could help team there @ some point"

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 8h

Texans OC Rick Dennison on Matt Schaub's interceptions: "He has made some bad decisions...after watching the film he understands why."

dream_team
09-26-2013, 12:31 AM
Hopefully Kubiak goes all Harbaugh and throws Yates to "the wolves". With what Yates showed in the preseason that may end up being throwing the wolves to the grizzlies. Yates can run this offense and can move. He may not be RG III but he is mobile.

There's a BIG difference here, and I think Harbaugh gets way too much credit for it.

1) Harbaugh drafted Kaep in the 2nd round to be the eventual starter. Despite what he told the press, he was not a believer in Alex.
2) Kaep wasn't chosen to be thrown into the wolves, he was forced to due to injury.
3) They don't run the most complicated system in SF. You can contribute a lot of his success due to the read option, which is fairly easy to run for a QB.

- Yates was drafted in the 5th to be a backup/project.
- Yates was also technically thrown to the wolves his rookie year due to injury, he just didn't outplay Schaub during that time.
- We don't run a simple offense here.

GuerillaBlack
09-26-2013, 12:41 AM
There's a BIG difference here, and I think Harbaugh gets way too much credit for it.

1) Harbaugh drafted Kaep in the 2nd round to be the eventual starter. Despite what he told the press, he was not a believer in Alex.
2) Kaep wasn't chosen to be thrown into the wolves, he was forced to due to injury.
3) They don't run the most complicated system in SF. You can contribute a lot of his success due to the read option, which is fairly easy to run for a QB.

- Yates was drafted in the 5th to be a backup/project.
- Yates was also technically thrown to the wolves his rookie year due to injury, he just didn't outplay Schaub during that time.
- We don't run a simple offense here.

Alex Smith's injury was just the excuse that Harbaugh needed to put in Kaep. Smith was healthy the next week after his injury IIRC, but Kaep played well and the team basically voted for Kaep over smith.

dream_team
09-26-2013, 01:25 AM
Alex Smith's injury was just the excuse that Harbaugh needed to put in Kaep. Smith was healthy the next week after his injury IIRC, but Kaep played well and the team basically voted for Kaep over smith.

The big difference was everyone knew Kaep was the future. He was drafted to be the future. It was only a matter of time before he started. Can you say the same about Yates?

Norg
09-26-2013, 01:47 AM
ehhh we just gotta run the ball more and I mean run it on


3 & 7

3&4

ad hope we can get it and if not 4th and 1 maybe we run it again


Running the ball one way to null the Blitzes

ObsiWan
09-26-2013, 06:17 AM
The big difference was everyone knew Kaep was the future. He was drafted to be the future. It was only a matter of time before he started. Can you say the same about Yates?
I have to agree with this. Harbaugh "inherited" Alex Smith. He wasn't tied at the hip to Smith because he didn't draft or trade for him. He drafted Kaepernick so naturally he was going to insert his guy as soon as the opportunity presented itself.

HOWEVER... it is interesting to note that Alex Smith has taken last year's 2-14 Chiefs to 3-0 while Kaepernick has the reigning NFC champs at 1-2. So, long term, was the change really the right move??

What will be interesting to watch is how (or IF) Harbaugh gets his young "stud" QB to recover and get back to last year's form now that the Seahawks - and then the Colts - have showed the league that Kaepernick can be had.

thunderkyss
09-26-2013, 09:02 AM
Alex Smith's injury was just the excuse that Harbaugh needed to put in Kaep. Smith was healthy the next week after his injury IIRC, but Kaep played well and the team basically voted for Kaep over smith.

No ones saying any different. If not for the injury, they wouldn't have made one up to get Kaepernick on the field. Alex Smith (like Matt Schaub) was playing well enough to win. Yanking him for an unknown, regardless how good you feel about the guy in the wing... if you're losing & have nothing to lose, yeah.

But as long as we're on the plus side, we're not going to see a QB change unless there's an injury. Then it will be up to that guy to outplay Schaub the way Kaepernick outplayed Smith. Personally, if I were the OC, he'll have to outplay Schaub within my system. If he's bailing to early or ad libing too much, even if he's making plays, he stays on the bench. If there are plays to be made before protection breaks down, I expect him to make those plays.

thunderkyss
09-26-2013, 09:08 AM
ehhh we just gotta run the ball more and I mean run it on


3 & 7

3&4

ad hope we can get it and if not 4th and 1 maybe we run it again


Running the ball one way to null the Blitzes

I agree with that. What I didn't like in our first three games, was that going for it on 4th down was an after thought. They should know before they call the play on third down if this is 4 down territory or not.

Call the play on third down, whether it fails or not, get to the LOS ready to call another play. If you don't like what you see, call a timeout, change the play.

Don't call a timeout, talk about it, then come out & throw a screen to the RB split wide on 4th & 2.

thunderkyss
09-26-2013, 09:22 AM
What will be interesting to watch is how (or IF) Harbaugh gets his young "stud" QB to recover and get back to last year's form now that the Seahawks - and then the Colts - have showed the league that Kaepernick can be had.

What he's going to do is stop trying to make him an NFL QB & let him use his athleticism to win games. We get on Schaub all the time for the WRs making him look good. Well Anquan Bolden made Kaepernick look good opening week. Not so much since then. They need Crabtree & Davis back in the line-up to have a shot.


I may be speaking too soon. Kaepernick may light it up tonight against a yet to prove themselves Rams defense.

DocBar
09-28-2013, 10:01 PM
I agree with that. What I didn't like in our first three games, was that going for it on 4th down was an after thought. They should know before they call the play on third down if this is 4 down territory or not.

Call the play on third down, whether it fails or not, get to the LOS ready to call another play. If you don't like what you see, call a timeout, change the play.

Don't call a timeout, talk about it, then come out & throw a screen to the RB split wide on 4th & 2.I would really like to see the Texans speed things up and not worry so much about TOP. They seem to play quite a bit better when they sugar huddle and really start to press a tiring D that can't substitute easily.

I do agree that getting back up to the LOS and going on 4th would be much better than letting the bad guys think about it.