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Seegara
09-22-2013, 06:40 PM
What needs to be done to fix Texans' Nothing offemse?

Mr teX
09-22-2013, 06:51 PM
Kubiak and Wade have peaked, time to look for another HC. If schaub doesnt perform......which most people seem to think would be the case, Schaub would be outta here in favor of the new coaches guy anyway.

ATXtexanfan
09-22-2013, 06:57 PM
Fire HC then remove qb

Rey
09-22-2013, 07:03 PM
Just give me a new QB.
I think that will spark the team and the fans and give us a new offensive identity.

WolverineFan
09-22-2013, 07:04 PM
Schaubiak has held this team back for too long. The problem is the offense has a specific identity (zone blocking, playaction, rollouts, etc.). You get rid of the HC and you're likely starting over on offense. Yes there is talent there, but you will have a new QB and a new offense.

Wade has done wonders with the defense so hopefully he would stay on. The defense has it's own problems (pass rush, man coverage, shredded by good QB's) but the defense is not the problem with this team.

Oh and fire Joe Marciano please.

Trap_Star
09-22-2013, 07:05 PM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Brett+Hundley+Nebraska+v+UCLA+ZxI6vJ7OAbQx.jpg

amazing80
09-22-2013, 07:47 PM
Its called adapt to the new NFL. This isn't the 90s anymore The ZBS works, but you need to know its limitations and how to work around them. You need to open the aggression when in the red zone. You have 2 beast wide outs and yet you run 3 straight times and then kick a fg against a team who is good....wtf? The play calling is terrible and the design is over used. Become more creative. For instance, you have 2 elite runners, run shotgun with 2 backs (foster and tate) and make defenses guess where the ball is going. When 2nd and long, throw it deep, EVERY time. Stop being predictable with runs. IDK, you just need to be more creative.

RTP2110
09-22-2013, 08:17 PM
Its called adapt to the new NFL. This isn't the 90s anymore The ZBS works, but you need to know its limitations and how to work around them. You need to open the aggression when in the red zone. You have 2 beast wide outs and yet you run 3 straight times and then kick a fg against a team who is good....wtf? The play calling is terrible and the design is over used. Become more creative. For instance, you have 2 elite runners, run shotgun with 2 backs (foster and tate) and make defenses guess where the ball is going. When 2nd and long, throw it deep, EVERY time. Stop being predictable with runs. IDK, you just need to be more creative.

THIS. And it's why this offense was at it's best with baby Shanny running it.

Tailgate
09-22-2013, 08:19 PM
Fix the offensive line and upgrade QB. Nothing else needs to be done.

thunderkyss
09-22-2013, 08:49 PM
What needs to be done to fix Texans' Nothing offemse?

I think we should continue to do what we're doing.

Before this game, we all had expectations of how it would go. We predicted scores & what not. This game did not go the way some of us expected.

I didn't think we were going to blow out the Ravens. I thought it was going to be a low scoring, ugly game that we would manage to win. I did not factor in a defensive score. I did not expect a special team score. They both happened, & they both happened against us.

Our defense held them to 16 points. Their defense held us to 9 points. That's about what I expected with the way we were playing.

Newton appears to be getting healthier. I know that's difficult to hear when Dumervil & Suggs made him their btch.... but it's Dumervil & Suggs & they make everybody their btch, especially if you're playing from behind.

Foster's ran pretty strong today. I think when Tate's running as well as he had been, Foster tries harder.

I think Posey is looking good. Looks like he's surpassed LeStar as the #4 receiver. Hopefully he can work Martin (who's been looking good lately as well) further down the depth chart.

Hopefully DBrown comes back healthy & ready to play. Hopefully Wade can suck it up & play well for the rest of the season. Hopefully Brandon Brooks continues to play well, hopefully Newton continues to improve.

I still expect this team to be in the top 5 in scoring when it's all said & done, if Kubiak & Matt continue to do what they've been doing.

utahmark
09-22-2013, 09:12 PM
Our o-line needs help.

leebigeztx
09-22-2013, 10:03 PM
I've said this before,they should be in no huddle, 11 personel either big (andre as the y) or small (martin) as the Y. Graham nor daniels are vertical threats so they should only be on together inside the 10yd line. Otherwise,make teams play nickel and move the ball up and down the field like that. I know he hasn't played great,but I would've drafted geno smith as my q of the future in the 1st and came back to get my wr in the 2nd. They don't have any wr who can step on toes and make the db turn and open up.

waynegg
09-22-2013, 10:45 PM
I still expect this team to be in the top 5 in scoring when it's all said & done, if Kubiak & Matt continue to do what they've been doing.

Are you watching 2012-2013 replays on the NFL network? You are, aren't you? :wadepalm:

thunderkyss
09-22-2013, 10:51 PM
Are you watching 2012-2013 replays on the NFL network? You are, aren't you? :wadepalm:

It's week 3.

waynegg
09-22-2013, 10:56 PM
It's week 3.

Through three weeks, Schaub is 85-of-128 passing (66.4 percent) for 838 yards, six TDs, four interceptions (two pick-sixes) and an 87.3 rating. Some of the numbers are solid. Others fall in line with his career track. None are elite. None are Super Bowl worthy. ~ Houston Chronical

Even Matt Schaub knows he's the problem...

“I’ve just got to be better" ~ Matt Schaub

steelbtexan
09-22-2013, 10:59 PM
Fire HC then remove qb

^^^^
I've been beating this drum for yrs.

DocBar
09-22-2013, 11:31 PM
I'm ready to see some fresh blood at QB. Once the score got out of hand today, I wish Kubiak would've put Yates in and let him rip.

The playbook doesn't need to be rewritten but it does need updated. Kubiak needs to loose the hounds when his back is against the wall and open his playbook up all the way, not just used the dog-eared pages. I didn't vote to replace the offensive coordinator, but maybe I should have. There's way too much talent on this team.

Marciano needs to go. ST's has been in the crapper for a few years.

One thing I hope doesn't happen is that Phillips becomes interim HC this season. That would fit his MO, though, and he has stated many times that he wants to be a HC again.

BullNation4Life
09-22-2013, 11:35 PM
Its called adapt to the new NFL. This isn't the 90s anymore The ZBS works, but you need to know its limitations and how to work around them. You need to open the aggression when in the red zone. You have 2 beast wide outs and yet you run 3 straight times and then kick a fg against a team who is good....wtf? The play calling is terrible and the design is over used. Become more creative. For instance, you have 2 elite runners, run shotgun with 2 backs (foster and tate) and make defenses guess where the ball is going. When 2nd and long, throw it deep, EVERY time. Stop being predictable with runs. IDK, you just need to be more creative.

EXACTLY!!!

Why is it when I watch the Texans, I feel as though I am watch the 97-98 Broncos? all day today, I was making my dad laugh because I wasn't even in the room, he would yell out down and distance the Texans had and I would tell him what play was coming, before it ever was ran. That is how predicable Kubiak's offense is.

Hell even Suggs knew what was coming, they made point of that often in the game....

The game now that is the NFL is passing Kubiak, no check that, the game that now is the NFL is leaving Kubiak's ass in the dust and Kubiak is way too stubborn to see it and adapt...

What worked 15 years ago does not work today, or it only gets you so far...

76Texan
09-22-2013, 11:48 PM
The Texans are a team that mix zone blocking with a gap scheme.
The majority of NFL teams also use some form of zone blocking.
Just use google search "team name + zone blocking" and you will come up with a slew of them:
Packers, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins, Broncos, Ravens, Raiders, Dolphins, Jaguars, Titans, Seahawks, Chiefs, Cardinals, Saints, Colts, etc.

Read this article, for example:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nflnation&id=77661&src=desktop

When you google for the Steelers, you will come up with an article where some players are wondering why they're not running much of the scheme; it was successful for them in pre-season.

http://triblive.com/mobile/4728878-96/scheme-steelers-running


So can we strike out that thought about abandoning the zone scheme please.

76Texan
09-22-2013, 11:57 PM
When 2nd and long, throw it deep, EVERY time. Stop being predictable with runs. IDK, you just need to be more creative.

Profootballreference.com has a feature called play finder.
They don't have an update for this week game yet, but through the first two games, the Texans called a pass play 86.7% of the time on 2nd and 7 yards or longer.
The rest of the league was at just over 60%.

Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

EVOLVIST
09-23-2013, 12:12 AM
It's the O-Line, yo! Yeah, Kubiak has the tendency to stink up the joint, and yes his backup QB mentality has softened an already soft Matt Schaub, still, we've all seen Schaub shred defenses when he has a good, if not GREAT, pocket to throw out of. But Schaub isn't mentally tough (it appears), so he's shell shocked into oblivion right now because of poor offensive line play. In fact, I would say that Schaub helped us win the first couple of games, despite himself. Now, this game against the Ravens was just too much for him to bear.

I'm not buying the lisfranc bit, just yet.

So, what needs to be done this season? Yeah, replace Newton with Harris. Short to intermediate passes to strike quickly and help the O-Line, score fast a couple of times and see how they rush the passer then. Change your MO and you'll win games because nobody will expect Kubiak to change.

(Fantasy Land)

DocBar
09-23-2013, 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
When 2nd and long, throw it deep, EVERY time. Stop being predictable with runs. IDK, you just need to be more creative.


Profootballreference.com has a feature called play finder.
They don't have an update for this week game yet, but through the first two games, the Texans called a pass play 86.7% of the time on 2nd and 7 yards or longer.
The rest of the league was at just over 60%.

Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree. 80 stated throw it deep EVERY time, not throw it. I've seen several throws many yards short of the 1st down marker this year. He's not necessarily barking up the wrong tree. Every time the Texans threw it deep on 2nd and long, I wasn't surprised. They are getting that predictable.

Where he's barking up the wrong tree is saying to throw it deep every time on 2nd and long to become unpredictable. The Texans have a pretty decent YPC and 3rd and 3-5 is much more makeable, percentage-wise, than 3rd and longer. Even when the box is stacked, the Texans run the ball better than most, regardless of down and distance.

IMHO, changing the pace of the game, instead of being anally concerned with TOP, would have a much bigger impact on games than play calling on a particular down and distance. Try dictating substitutions against our talent rather than puffing your chest out and saying we can beat you regardless by imposing our will on you. Most successful coaches use mismatches on a regular basis. Kubiak prefers pissing contests and relying on superior talent to win battles. More and more, it takes superior tactical and strategic play calling to win these contests. That's where Kubiak comes up short. He may have the longer schlong, but Lady Victory appears to enjoy the motion of the ocean as much as the depth, if not more. Being innovative tactically and fundamentally secure strategically is the answer to winning in the NFL these days.

Wolf6151
09-23-2013, 01:59 AM
Fire HC then remove qb

Bingo. This should have been done 3 yrs. ago.

Corrosion
09-23-2013, 03:14 AM
Find someone to replace Newton , not having Brown really hurt today.

Also need a QB .... who can throw downfield and extend plays with his feet. Im done with "The statue of Schaub" Three picks in three games that either result in a pick 6 or fantastic field position resulting in 6. Had IT!

Find an OC who will call for routes that go beyond the marker on 3rd down & will take shots "Into" the endzone while in the redzone. This is really a big deal as a penalty in the endzone puts you at the 1 ..... with a 1st down.


Last but not least , get rid of Marciano .... that dude's concept of lane integrity is worse than a politicians concept of integrity.

leebigeztx
09-23-2013, 04:20 AM
I agree with corrosion. I also think that if Kubes had a better qb,he would do more from a point of moving the pockets just to vs to make sure a dude with avg arm can have clean feet. They also need more speed at wr. They don't have a wr who can just flat out run guys. Andre still can run,but he's not the guy to eat the cushion like he used to. None of the te's can run either. When you look at the modern te's like gronk,hernandez,graham,and the cameron kid in cleveland,they have a common trait. They all are big guys who can run seam routes. None of the texans te's are those kind of threats. So derfense just cloud the middle and let them run those jerk routes.

76Texan
09-23-2013, 04:37 AM
@Docbar

When the rest of the league call a pass 60% of the time, they clearly are not throwing it deep every time.

Why would anybody expect the Texans to?

Also, in the first two weeks, not only did the Texans throw the ball quite a bit more than the average of the league (meaning more than most of the teams) on 2nd and long, they also gained more per attempt.

76Texan
09-23-2013, 05:10 AM
Find someone to replace Newton , not having Brown really hurt today.

Also need a QB .... who can throw downfield and extend plays with his feet. Im done with "The statue of Schaub" Three picks in three games that either result in a pick 6 or fantastic field position resulting in 6. Had IT!

Find an OC who will call for routes that go beyond the marker on 3rd down & will take shots "Into" the endzone while in the redzone. This is really a big deal as a penalty in the endzone puts you at the 1 ..... with a 1st down.


Last but not least , get rid of Marciano .... that dude's concept of lane integrity is worse than a politicians concept of integrity.
In the first two games, in the red zone, the Texans called a pass play 70% of the time; the rest of the league only some 56-57% of the time.

On these passing attempts, the Texans gained some .25 yard per play more than the rest of the league.

It's the total reverse of what you were expecting.

amazing80
09-23-2013, 05:18 AM
Profootballreference.com has a feature called play finder.
They don't have an update for this week game yet, but through the first two games, the Texans called a pass play 86.7% of the time on 2nd and 7 yards or longer.
The rest of the league was at just over 60%.

Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

Where in my post did I specify 7 yards or longer? Learn to read..I said EVERY 2ND DOWN, its the 2nd and 3s that we should be taking our shots downfield, if its incomplete, you still have 3rd and short

76Texan
09-23-2013, 05:22 AM
On third down, regardless of field position, the Texans averaged 8.52 yards to go, and they gained 7.33 yards per pass attempts on these plays.

The whole league (including the Texans) averaged 7.94/5.80

The Texans passed more on third downs; they had further to go, and they gained more.

Again, it is the reverse of what was expecting in this thread.

76Texan
09-23-2013, 05:25 AM
Its called adapt to the new NFL. This isn't the 90s anymore The ZBS works, but you need to know its limitations and how to work around them. You need to open the aggression when in the red zone. You have 2 beast wide outs and yet you run 3 straight times and then kick a fg against a team who is good....wtf? The play calling is terrible and the design is over used. Become more creative. For instance, you have 2 elite runners, run shotgun with 2 backs (foster and tate) and make defenses guess where the ball is going. When 2nd and long, throw it deep, EVERY time. Stop being predictable with runs. IDK, you just need to be more creative.

"When 2nd and long, throw it deep, Everytime."

That is what you said, isn't it?

TexansSeminole
09-23-2013, 05:32 AM
I don't really have a problem with Kubiak's scheme. The only two problems I have with him are his play calls on occasion, which I can live with, and his marriage to Schaub. I think part of his play calling problems come from the little he has to work with at QB. His scheme works very well actually and he has been more committed to the run game recently than he has been in the past, which is a good thing.

leebigeztx
09-23-2013, 05:59 AM
76Texan, personally don't think the texans have good footspeed on offense. I mean Aj still can run,but his 9 rt isn't the same as a few years ago,but his route running is top notch especialy for a wr of his size.I don't think you should have to wait to long situations or play action to throw the ball down the field. We watched the ravens lay dormant like an old volcano,then all of a sudden, big play to smith. Now the safety is staying a little further back,so are the lbs,and now the crossing rts have more space. As I said before,they need a bigger sense of urgency and create some matchup situations. To me,posey and martin need more time and targets while reducing the targets and time for the te combo. No team is bracketing nor rolling to either of those guys. Teams don't fear being beat by daniels nor graham. Neither guy have special or unique qualities.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 06:59 AM
I'm ready to see some fresh blood at QB. Once the score got out of hand today, I wish Kubiak would've put Yates in and let him rip.


There's no way Kubiak makes that change, especially based on what happened the two weeks prior.

The score didn't put the game out of hand..... time ran out. Time ran out, because our defense couldn't get Baltimore off the field & when it finally did, it took us 5 minutes to get into field goal range.

At the next opportunity, we saw Cierre & Yates handing him the ball.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 07:04 AM
IMHO, changing the pace of the game, instead of being anally concerned with TOP, would have a much bigger impact on games than play calling on a particular down and distance.

I think this is the biggest thing we need to do... not for the same reason or other benefits you mentioned (not that they aren't good)... But we need to get Schaub in a rhythm. & even the Schaub haters will have to admit when Matt's on, he's on. We just don't see him get into his groove often enough.

I know Kubiak thinks it's important to get Foster going, that he's the cog that makes everything works.. but everything revolves around the QB. Get him right, & Foster will get right.

Corrosion
09-23-2013, 07:07 AM
In the first two games, in the red zone, the Texans called a pass play 70% of the time; the rest of the league only some 56-57% of the time.

On these passing attempts, the Texans gained some .25 yard per play more than the rest of the league.

It's the total reverse of what you were expecting.

I think you are misunderstanding my thoughts here.


Im talking about throwing the ball "INTO" the endzone .... Not simply throwing the ball or the average length of route / pass combinations.

Having the target IN THE Endzone gives you a theoretical advantage in that you have either a completion , an incompletion or a penalty with the rules heavily favoring the offensive player. Two of those three possible outcomes are good for the offense ....

They didn't take advantage of that Vs the Ravens and the result is easy to see , settling for three FG's.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 07:18 AM
They didn't take advantage of that Vs the Ravens and the result is easy to see , settling for three FG's.

It's simply not worth the risk... not to Kubiak & Schaub. The field goal game would have beat the Ravens if not for the pick 6 he threw & the STs touchdown. After that, we never really had a chance to throw one into the endzone, or we would have, just like we did against Tennessee, or San Diego.

I know what you're thinking. We should strike any time the opportunity presents itself... & depending on your mindset, we do & will. But the Ravens were keeping our guys in front of them all game, just like we were doing to them. When we were in the red zone, I'm sure Matt saw too many of them, not enough of us & chose to check it down..... just like they wanted. Taking what the defense gives you.

Had Schaub thrown it into the endzone & they picked off the ball... we come away with no points, it would have been even uglier.

Matt got frustrated yesterday. He tried to lead OD for a big play... he "never" leads a receiver. OD let him down & didn't get to the ball. It's really that simple. Had Matt played his "normal" conservative game, that ball would have been on ODs back hip. He would have caught it, or it would have been incomplete & we continue to play small ball with the Ravens.

Honoring Earl 34
09-23-2013, 07:22 AM
I think you are misunderstanding my thoughts here.


Im talking about throwing the ball "INTO" the endzone .... Not simply throwing the ball or the average length of route / pass combinations.

Having the target IN THE Endzone gives you a theoretical advantage in that you have either a completion , an incompletion or a penalty with the rules heavily favoring the offensive player. Two of those three possible outcomes are good for the offense ....

They didn't take advantage of that Vs the Ravens and the result is easy to see , settling for three FG's.

I would have liked to see Hopkins have a chance to go get it in the end zone .

With Schaub as a QB you don't have to worry about him running and you don't have to cover long .

Corrosion
09-23-2013, 07:41 AM
I would have liked to see Hopkins have a chance to go get it in the end zone .

With Schaub as a QB you don't have to worry about him running and you don't have to cover long .

Hopkins , AJ & Posey all have a size advantage over the majority of DB's covering them .... Throw it high and allow your receiver to make a bleeping play.

Those high & away throws to the deep corner of the endzone (or sideline in general) are very difficult to defend with a low chance the DB can get a paw on it.


The more I think about it , the more I think the issues revolve around Schaub's inadequacies than any other factor.
He's fine as long as he has a clean pocket .... but all too often in the NFL that just isn't the case.

Thorn
09-23-2013, 07:47 AM
I had to think about whether to vote for getting rid of Schaub or Kubiak, ending up voting for getting rid of Schaub since that'll be a quicker fix. Although getting rid of either or both would make me happy.

The problem is that neither TJ or Keenum are ready to start, so you'd have to just go ahead throw one of them to the wolves.

Rey
09-23-2013, 07:51 AM
I get why you'd throw the ball in front of the sticks or just short of the end zone at times. The defense is usually giving you that space and if your guy can catch it and make a play it can work out nicely.

But Schaub doesn't throw the ball well enough for that. A lot of his throws are late with little velocity. Look at the throw to Andre yesterday. He bobbled it, but it was not a good throw at all. Ball should have been out in front if him, thrown quicker so he could catch it and quickly turn up field to beast for the first down.

We can't consistently be a good team if we have to constantly fight to make up for the shortcomings of the qb. That should be reversed. The qb should be mostly making up for shortcomings of others.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 08:29 AM
He's fine as long as he has a clean pocket .... but all too often in the NFL that just isn't the case.

But we do expect the protection to be better than what we've seen right?

Far as Schaub goes... I don't think it's about his inadequacies. I think it's about how he decides when it's time to take a chance & when it's not. Too often we're on the wrong side of that decision when you consider this game is about play-makers making plays.

Sooner or later, you've got to decide that we're not going to settle for a field goal... the first two, that's my limit. That third trip into the red zone, it's time to take a chance. Got to be.

gafftop
09-23-2013, 08:30 AM
I had to think about whether to vote for getting rid of Schaub or Kubiak, ending up voting for getting rid of Schaub since that'll be a quicker fix. Although getting rid of either or both would make me happy.

The problem is that neither TJ or Keenum are ready to start, so you'd have to just go ahead throw one of them to the wolves.

My thoughts exactly.

Schaub's main advantage over the other two is experience/decision making and possibly accuracy. Well based on what we have seen lately those two advantages are gone. He seems to be folding under the pressure of the actual rush, the pressure of a possible rush and the pressure he has put on himself.
I know we all assume he recognizes the defense better than the other two because of his experience but I am not so sure. We assume he goes through the progressions better than the other two but I am not so sure. I have to think that AJ is not the most open receiver most of the time.

They always say a game may hinge on 5-6 plays. Yesterday his contribution to these plays were negative not positive. Maybe if he had made a couple of plays on the first two drives they have TDs instead of FGs.

Listening to him on 610 and his answers kind of remind me of "Nuke" LaLoosh/Bull Durham at the end of the movie.

We wiil see against Seattle how he responds. I think it will be far uglier than this week for MS and the Texans.

On a side note does he look sleep deprived/stressed out or has he always looked like that?

Can't wait to see what happens against Seattle.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 08:35 AM
I get why you'd throw the ball in front of the sticks or just short of the end zone at times. The defense is usually giving you that space and if your guy can catch it and make a play it can work out nicely.

But Schaub doesn't throw the ball well enough for that. A lot of his throws are late with little velocity. Look at the throw to Andre yesterday. He bobbled it, but it was not a good throw at all. Ball should have been out in front if him, thrown quicker so he could catch it and quickly turn up field to beast for the first down.

We can't consistently be a good team if we have to constantly fight to make up for the shortcomings of the qb. That should be reversed. The qb should be mostly making up for shortcomings of others.

msr.... I agree with everything you're saying, except the shortcomings of Schaub. He's doing that on purpose. It's difficult to grasp, because it just doesn't make sense, but after watching it for years & listening to him... he's doing it on purpose. At least he believes he'd doing it on purpose.

This isn't something that just started happening since the Lisfranc, he's done it since he got here. Then every time you think he's going to pick & choose when he'll lead & when he'll throw it behind better, something bad happens. Like the ball when he tried to lead OD.

Instead of thinking, "I led him a little too much." It's like he says, "That'll never work."

HJam72
09-23-2013, 08:39 AM
1. Marciano SUCKS. Do something about it.

2. The O-line is in disarray. We need Brown back healthy, & that is not the only problem, but I'm far from knowing what to do about it, especially right now & under the current circumstances.

3. I believe we needed to go high to Hopkins in the redzone in this game & didn't. I also suspect that we mistakenly shyed away from the TEs after the pick 6 in this game, which was all on Schaub anyway.

I don't think Schaub played all that terrbibly, but the pick 6 throw was a total bonehead move. We lost this game because of terrible redzone play by the O., a pick-6, and an 82 yard punt return for a TD that has MARCIANO written all over it. The D didn't always look great, but you take away 14 points for the pick-6 & punt return & they did their jobs pretty darn well.

cdollaz
09-23-2013, 10:07 AM
http://www.geekosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Banner.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l651qj02sR1qcm16uo1_r1_500.jpg

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/335898/a-magician-named-gob-o.gif

eriadoc
09-23-2013, 10:19 AM
I don't think Schaub played all that terrbibly ...

Well, he DID throw a touchdown pass.

silvrhand
09-23-2013, 10:21 AM
Well, he DID throw a touchdown pass.

Just to the wrong team..

:facepalm:

TexansSeminole
09-23-2013, 10:26 AM
I get why you'd throw the ball in front of the sticks or just short of the end zone at times. The defense is usually giving you that space and if your guy can catch it and make a play it can work out nicely.

But Schaub doesn't throw the ball well enough for that. A lot of his throws are late with little velocity. Look at the throw to Andre yesterday. He bobbled it, but it was not a good throw at all. Ball should have been out in front if him, thrown quicker so he could catch it and quickly turn up field to beast for the first down.

We can't consistently be a good team if we have to constantly fight to make up for the shortcomings of the qb. That should be reversed. The qb should be mostly making up for shortcomings of others.

Great point. Schaub definitely doesn't make it easier on the receivers. The ball just looks weak coming off his arm.

texanhead08
09-23-2013, 10:29 AM
I never get how we are supposed to be such a great running team but we look ****ing clueless in the red zone over and over.

The o-line play was god awful yesterday and we have the most immobile QB in the league and that compounds the problems when they don't play well.

We see the same special teams breakdowns year after year and yet Marciano keeps his job...wtf is that all about.

Corrosion
09-23-2013, 10:30 AM
We see the same special teams breakdowns year after year and yet Marciano keeps his job...wtf is that all about.

He must have compromising pic's of McNair ..... cause he's been here since day one and shoulda been gone a long time ago.

HOU-TEX
09-23-2013, 10:51 AM
The Ravens had 6 plays on offense in the 1st quarter not counting punts. We had 7 plays in the redzone alone, which accounted for 6 points. Then we were Schaubed, Bramaned and Newtoned. Two TDs in about 3 minutes

BullNation4Life
09-23-2013, 10:52 AM
The Ravens had 6 plays on offense in the 1st quarter not counting punts. We had 7 plays in the redzone alone, which accounted for 6 points. Then we were Schaubed, Bramaned and Newtoned. Two TDs in about 3 minutes

It is never a good thing when player's names, on the team you cheer for, become verbs...

We also got Kubiaked....

76Texan
09-23-2013, 10:55 AM
I just rewatched the game, taking into account all the things that were said in this thread and over the course of the years.

While there's a little truth in several comments, they are not unique to the Texans. The vast majority of the teams are doing the same thing; many with worse results.

In this particular game, Schaub actually throw the ball beyond the yard marker more often than Flacco on third down.
Teams throw the ball the yard marker all the time.

Only teams with the elite QBs and teams that rely a little more on the vertical concept are different (the later took more risks and end up with worse result overall.)

It all boils down to execution, and penalties is a part of it.
Sometimes, a lineman allows a bit too much pressure; sometimes the receiver couldn't get enough separation; sometimes Schaub made a poor throw; sometimes the receiver drops a ball; sometimes Schaub was fooled by the scheme; sometimes the receiver runs a poor route; sometimes Schaub picks the wrong target (a guy that was covered instead of the open man.)

But we all know that Schaub is not an elite QB;
I still maintain that Schaub is somewhere between 11-15.
He's a solid QB that needs the parts around him to function up to their levels, and that includes special team plays and the defense. In the previous two games, Schaub played better than that level; in this game, he didn't.

The Ravens actually played more to the balance philosophy of the WCO; this was a day where most things clicked for them, and they took advantage of it. Then they pounded the ball in the fourth quarter when they had a big lead.

There's no magic to it.
Special team had another bad day.
The defense couldn't create turnovers; they couldn't make the big plays needed to overcome the offensive woes.

Seegara
09-23-2013, 10:57 AM
Find someone to replace Newton , not having Brown really hurt today.

Also need a QB .... who can throw downfield and extend plays with his feet. Im done with "The statue of Schaub" Three picks in three games that either result in a pick 6 or fantastic field position resulting in 6. Had IT!

Find an OC who will call for routes that go beyond the marker on 3rd down & will take shots "Into" the endzone while in the redzone. This is really a big deal as a penalty in the endzone puts you at the 1 ..... with a 1st down.
Running routes 1 yard shy of the marker (or goal line) on 3rd down is one of those stupid little things you can do to lose ball games.

....
Last but not least , get rid of Marciano .... that dude's concept of lane integrity is worse than a politicians concept of integrity.
You home in on the runner's belt buckle and you don't get juked out of position. Where his midriff goes, he has to go. It seems Marciano should at least make sure they know that.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 11:01 AM
Only teams with the elite QBs and teams that rely a little more on the vertical concept are different (the later took more risks and end up with worse result overall.)


That's not true. Tom Brady throws short of the stick all the time. That's how Shane Vareen beat us to death in the play offs & Welker as well. Peyton has always done it frequently & now with Welker on his team, he'll do it even more.

It's part of the game.

HOU-TEX
09-23-2013, 11:05 AM
It is never a good thing when player's names, on the team you cheer for, become verbs...

We also got Kubiaked....

Ha, true

76Texan
09-23-2013, 11:17 AM
That's not true. Tom Brady throws short of the stick all the time. That's how Shane Vareen beat us to death in the play offs & Welker as well. Peyton has always done it frequently & now with Welker on his team, he'll do it even more.

It's part of the game.

Fewer times.

I actually studied it during the off-season.
Brady is one of 'em QB that throws the ball beyond the yard marker more consistently.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 11:19 AM
Fewer times.

I actually studied it during the off-season.
Brady is one of 'em QB that throws the ball beyond the yard marker more consistently.

I've actually studied it myself. He throws short of the sticks a lot.

76Texan
09-23-2013, 11:19 AM
Running routes 1 yard shy of the marker (or goal line) on 3rd down is one of those stupid little things you can do to lose ball games.

Teams do it quite often; the winning teams, too.

tedr
09-23-2013, 12:21 PM
I've looked at these possible responses, and the ones that jump out are changing the QB and head coach.

I've always liked both of them. As people go, they are two of the best, it seems...but that doesn't mean they are what we need.

I know it's hard to argue with the regular season results the last two years (I think that can be attributed in great part to the defense), but when you look at their body of work here, this is what you get:

8th year for the head coach
7th year for the starting qb
2 playoff victories
No trips to a conference championship game

Perhaps there are some other HC-QB combos who have had this little success, but to me, that's just not good enough.

I know three years ago, we would have killed for any sniff of the playoffs-now we want more. I think that's good as a fan base to want that.

The basic question is- can this combination take us any further than we've gone? I wasn't sure before yesterday; now, seeing how both were exposed in an ugly way, I'm leaning toward saying they can't.

This might be knee-jerk; they might come out Sunday and beat the Seahawks- I doubt it, but it might happen. I just think if you look at things honestly, at least one of the two needs to change, preferably both. Just my thoughts.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 01:06 PM
This might be knee-jerk; they might come out Sunday and beat the Seahawks- I doubt it, but it might happen. I just think if you look at things honestly, at least one of the two needs to change, preferably both. Just my thoughts.

What would it mean if beat the pants off Seattle?


Nothing. It won't mean squat. Just like it didn't mean squat that we beat Baltimore.... beat the snot out of them. We beat the Broncos... week 5 or 6. Didn't mean squat.

Winning in September means nothing. You all know that. So with that same logic, unless we're 1-3 in September, losing in Sept. is just as meaningless.

This is just a "this is where you stand" game. That's it. We got to see what's working, what's not working & we've got a little time before we need to have it fixed.

Seattle looks good. But we've got a chance to beat them at home. San Fran looks beatable. Then we'll see a bunch of teams we "should" beat. Hopefully we'll stay in the play off hunt during that time. Hopefully we'll have most of it fixed by November. By then, we'll know what it's going to take to make it to football in January. Then we'll see what's what.

Thorn
09-23-2013, 01:19 PM
Anything less than winning a Super Bowl is a disappointment to me. They've shown they can win in the playoffs, now they need to step up and show me more.

Otherwise it's just another year of watching football and not seeing the Texans win the ultimate victory. At my age, and all the years of the Oilers, I've grown accustomed to disappointment, but it infuriates me nonetheless.

Dread-Head
09-23-2013, 01:39 PM
I'm ready to see some fresh blood at QB. Once the score got out of hand today, I wish Kubiak would've put Yates in and let him rip.

The playbook doesn't need to be rewritten but it does need updated. Kubiak needs to loose the hounds when his back is against the wall and open his playbook up all the way, not just used the dog-eared pages. I didn't vote to replace the offensive coordinator, but maybe I should have. There's way too much talent on this team.

Marciano needs to go. ST's has been in the crapper for a few years.

One thing I hope doesn't happen is that Phillips becomes interim HC this season. That would fit his MO, though, and he has stated many times that he wants to be a HC again.

Kinda agree with the Doc on this one. Schaub has his moments but there are times when he looks like a backup who can win games and not a starter who dedicates every waking moment to thinking of how he can win a title.

deucetx
09-23-2013, 01:50 PM
Honestly, at this point there isn't a ton of different things that can be done. My first preference was an offensive coordinator brought in to bring new life into this offense. Someone outside of the Shannahan sphere of influence so Gary can concentrate on game/team management and let someone else handle the offense fully. But not during the year.

So they have to work with what they have. I think TK brought it up but one thing I would like to see is more of an attacking nature to this offense. It seems we allow the defense to dictate what we'll do far too often and should be forcing them to adjust to us. It was one of the best things about the Chargers game. 3rd and long? No problem. We converted. We have to stop thinking 'We have a good defense so let's settle for punts and fieldgoals.' Looked like Kubiak was understanding this with the Chargers game but reverted to (as Jerome Solomon put it) Konserviak for the Ravens. Now how much of this is Kubiak and how much Schaub is debatable.

Secondly, throw the ball pass the markers. Yes, other teams throw short letting their playmakers make a play. Well...we're not other teams. We're not very high in YAC at the moment. Hop is climbing and Dre is in the top 25-30 and OD is like 19th or so. Those other teams like the Broncos have folks in the top five. Adjust to your personnel. If players are having issues getting YAC then throw it past the marker more. Mix it up. If you continually throw it short the defense will sit on routes and be there immediately to make the tackle.

For me right now the biggest offensive issue is that line though. They have been inconsistent all three games. First game Brown got manhandled. Newton has been tossed around in all three and Wade Smith is.....Wade Smith. So far Newton leads us in QB hurries allowed by Wade is giving him a run for his money! Really seems like they are racing to see who can get Matt killed first. Surprisingly Brooks has not been a big issue for being the only new piece on the line and Myers has been solid.

With that in mind if Brown comes back I would take Newton out and maybe Smith too if they have another bad game. It is time to make players accountable for bad play. Maybe such an action will light a spark in them because something has to. I don't see Matt surviving the year if this keeps up.

Coolhand_Luke
09-23-2013, 01:52 PM
I'm not a Matt Shaub guy at all but our problem is solely on the O-Line. We suppose to have 3 pro-bowlers on the O-line and they're playing like crap, and that including Dwayne Brown, yes I said it.....Wade Smith is garbage. Chris Myers is good I guess. Our right tackle and right guard don't belong in there. yea, Brandon Brooks may have great potential but right now he is no where close to being a decent starter. Damn, 4 out of 5 guys up front don't play good + Matt is our QB====> this is = disaster for the whole team, not just the offense. We should be very worry!!

Rey
09-23-2013, 02:32 PM
A new system would be a disaster. Schaub would not be nearly as good as he is in other systems. He's not going to be running anything that required any level of mobility from the qb and he's not running a system that relies more heavily on qb decision making and great throws.

I'd really like to see this offense with a better qb. The offense itself is not an issue. Playcalling and player performance definitely are.

deucetx
09-23-2013, 02:52 PM
A new system would be a disaster. Schaub would not be nearly as good as he is in other systems. He's not going to be running anything that required any level of mobility from the qb and he's not running a system that relies more heavily on qb decision making and great throws.

I'd really like to see this offense with a better qb. The offense itself is not an issue. Playcalling and player performance definitely are.

It's not as much about the system as it is the mentality I am thinking about with what we currently have available. I don't think Yates nor Keenum are ready yet but if Schaub doesn't right the ship with these int's and some of the ball placement we may need to find out sooner rather than later. But yeah the system isn't an issue. Just looking at it from a different angle than mere mechanics.

The mentality this offense has is too much of a wait and react instead of attacking. Just would worry that Kubes will get too involved if it is his own system. Only time he really let go was one season with baby Shanny who used it to attack. Doesn't seem he is going to do with that with Dennison. It's like the offense takes on the mindset of Kubiak and not sure that is a good thing.

One example of this is when asked about not throwing in the endzone Schaub said something of the like 'They didn't give it to us.' (per Jerome Solomon)Huh? You're playing into the defenses hands with that mentality. You have to make them react to you but we did the opposite.

So yeah I agree a more flexible QB would be great just not sure the young guns are ready.

cdollaz
09-23-2013, 03:09 PM
That post was a disaster.

Rey
09-23-2013, 03:23 PM
What would it mean if beat the pants off Seattle?

Nothing. It won't mean squat. Just like it didn't mean squat that we beat Baltimore.... beat the snot out of them. We beat the Broncos... week 5 or 6. Didn't mean squat

It's not the results. It's how we play. Ever since our first play off run, this tea has berm declining. That spark is gone.

I said this early last year when we were winning games. Save for that broncos game, we looked mediocre. Other teams shooting themselves. The foot, not having as much talent...that stuff has to be accounted for.

If Seattle comes in here and plays up to their level we won't match that. Book it. If Seattle comes in here and makes a bunch of mistakes then we will have a shot.

texanhead08
09-23-2013, 03:24 PM
The offense is struggling big time right now and this week the defense needs to step up and help them by creating some turnovers and getting a short field to help them out. If they got some quick scores it might jump start them because we are not getting any new players at this point so the ones we have need to play better.

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 04:15 PM
It's not the results. It's how we play. Ever since our first play off run, this tea has berm declining. That spark is gone.

I said this early last year when we were winning games. Save for that broncos game, we looked mediocre. Other teams shooting themselves. The foot, not having as much talent...that stuff has to be accounted for.

If Seattle comes in here and plays up to their level we won't match that. Book it. If Seattle comes in here and makes a bunch of mistakes then we will have a shot.

Can't argue that. If we put pressure on Wilson & he throws a few interceptions... well, they just didn't play up to their capability. If Arian or Andre has a good day, their defense shot themselves in the foot.

Kinda like we only beat Chicago last year because Cutler got hurt.

gafftop
09-23-2013, 05:18 PM
It's not as much about the system as it is the mentality I am thinking about with what we currently have available. I don't think Yates nor Keenum are ready yet but if Schaub doesn't right the ship with these int's and some of the ball placement we may need to find out sooner rather than later. But yeah the system isn't an issue. Just looking at it from a different angle than mere mechanics.

The mentality this offense has is too much of a wait and react instead of attacking. Just would worry that Kubes will get too involved if it is his own system. Only time he really let go was one season with baby Shanny who used it to attack. Doesn't seem he is going to do with that with Dennison. It's like the offense takes on the mindset of Kubiak and not sure that is a good thing.

One example of this is when asked about not throwing in the endzone Schaub said something of the like 'They didn't give it to us.' (per Jerome Solomon)Huh? You're playing into the defenses hands with that mentality. You have to make them react to you but we did the opposite.

So yeah I agree a more flexible QB would be great just not sure the young guns are ready.

I agree with all you said. I think the other thing about changing the QB is you get a new attitude, not the current mindset. Really think Ms is a beat old dog.
The young guns may not be ready but neither is Ms. Hopefully the young guns will go up while it sure seems Ms is going down.

Texanmike02
09-23-2013, 05:56 PM
More 4/5 receiver (or TE) sets with short crossing routes to open up quickly. With AJ, Hopkins, Martin, Posey, Jean, OD and Graham our 5 will be better than any other team's 5th DB. That's how we get killed in the passing game, if you have a WR1 (we might have 2) and a WR2 with 3 WR3's or 2 WR3s and 2 WR4's then you have an advantage over any team in the league. Is it any coincidence that Brady, once he is down his 2 TEs, Vereen and Amendola and now running more 2 and 3 WR sets without all of the targets available that he looks pedestrian?

Teams are going to come after the QB and we finally have the WRs to force them into man coverage or zone blitzes allowing for a quick read. That's how you win these days. Pass to set up the run.

Mike

thunderkyss
09-23-2013, 06:00 PM
Teams are going to come after the QB and we finally have the WRs to force them into man coverage or zone blitzes allowing for a quick read. That's how you win these days. Pass to set up the run.

Mike

That was what we were doing when Matt Schaub was a QB I could get 100% behind. He lead the league in passing that year. That 2009 offense with 2012 defense.... Championship!~!

kingtexan
09-23-2013, 06:41 PM
Haven't read the entire thread yet, just voted for start another QB. Fact is though that this offense was designed specifically for John Elway, a mobile QB with a rocket for an arm. John Elway aint walking through that door. We need to move in a different direction.

kingtexan
09-23-2013, 06:44 PM
That was what we were doing when Matt Schaub was a QB I could get 100% behind. He lead the league in passing that year. That 2009 offense with 2012 defense.... Championship!~!

The only reason Matt Schaub ever led anyone in anything is that he was being carried and his mistakes masked by others ability to adjust what they were doing to make up for them. Seth Payne was spewing the truth about him always having been a completely inaccurate QB whose percentages and numbers are manufactured by receivers having to perform circus acts to catch the crap he tosses out there. I have been saying that, and being bashed for it, for years. He aint it ...

DocBar
09-23-2013, 07:02 PM
I've read a few posts about Yates and Keenum not being ready. Both put on a show in the preseason that says they're ready. If you think Schaub was "ready" in 2007, why isn't Yates in 2013, with one less year in the league and more starts, including 2 playoff starts? Schaubs career accuracy % is 3.2% better than Yates'. I'm anxious to see what Yates has to offer. His mobility has to be at least 4% better than Schaub's and that can be just as important, if not more so.

I'd trust Yates and Keenum just as much as I'd trust Schaub right now. At least I'd be holding my breath because I was wondering what would happen instead of holding because of what I was expecting to happen.

I'm all for giving the kids a shot and seeing if we truly do need to draft a highly ranked college QB. We know what we have in Schaub and he ain't cutting it.

Corrosion
09-23-2013, 08:18 PM
I've read a few posts about Yates and Keenum not being ready. Both put on a show in the preseason that says they're ready. If you think Schaub was "ready" in 2007, why isn't Yates in 2013, with one less year in the league and more starts, including 2 playoff starts? Schaubs career accuracy % is 3.2% better than Yates'. I'm anxious to see what Yates has to offer. His mobility has to be at least 4% better than Schaub's and that can be just as important, if not more so.

I'd trust Yates and Keenum just as much as I'd trust Schaub right now. At least I'd be holding my breath because I was wondering what would happen instead of holding because of what I was expecting to happen.

I'm all for giving the kids a shot and seeing if we truly do need to draft a highly ranked college QB. We know what we have in Schaub and he ain't cutting it.

I think the problem with that school of thought is that we think (or at least the team does) we have a shot at a deep playoff run and possibly a super bowl appearance.

If the team didn't have those lofty goals , I could see a QB change ... but under the current circumstances , I just don't see it happening without an injury to Schaub.
All bets are off if they end up 2-5 or 3-6 with Schaub being the reason the team struggles.

When we do make a change at QB ... do we expect the same results as Luck & RG3 as rookies ? I think that's unrealistic ....
With many parts of the team aging , we could have to wait a couple years for another playoff experience as Manning , Reed , Ninja , Wade Smith , AJ and J.Jo are all at the back end of their careers .....

As it stands now , we're stuck with Schaub until its proven this isn't a playoff team.

NastyNate
09-23-2013, 08:24 PM
I feel the answer is very simple, pace. If Kubiak had any sense of urgency or any ability to change the pace of play other than "oh crap we're losing by 30, speed up now" we'd be much better off. Why do we continually allow the defense to substitute? Go muddle a few drives a game before we're down by 21. Change the pace a few times, allow your offense to get some momentum.

DocBar
09-23-2013, 08:29 PM
I think the problem with that school of thought is that we think (or at least the team does) we have a shot at a deep playoff run and possibly a super bowl appearance.

If the team didn't have those lofty goals , I could see a QB change ... but under the current circumstances , I just don't see it happening without an injury to Schaub.
All bets are off if they end up 2-5 or 3-6 with Schaub being the reason the team struggles.

When we do make a change at QB ... do we expect the same results as Luck & RG3 as rookies ? I think that's unrealistic ....
With many parts of the team aging , we could have to wait a couple years for another playoff experience as Manning , Reed , Ninja , Wade Smith , AJ and J.Jo are all at the back end of their careers .....

As it stands now , we're stuck with Schaub until its proven this isn't a playoff team.How has that idea worked out for the Texans? How did that idea work out for the 49'ers last season?

I simply don't think Schaub has what it takes to get us anywhere near deep in the playoffs. His performances this year are so erratic that we might as well have a 3rd year QB with some athletic upside and real game experience a decent shot.