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76Texan
09-21-2013, 09:25 PM
Just read that he was stepped on in last week game against Georgia.

It will require off-season surgery, and it was indicated that the timing probably won't allow enough time for him to heal for the combine.

It was also reported that he's playing with pain.

By playing hurt, does he have a chance to further aggravate the injury?
Will it enhance the chance if him incurring another injury?

Is it a smart decision to even play him?

Playoffs
12-06-2013, 02:28 PM
So is it injury, or effort?

Did he quit on his team? Or does he require sugery?

It was evident during the 2013 season opener against North Carolina that Clowney's conditioning was subpar. His snap count didn't warrant him being as tired as he was and he clearly took some plays off. Sources told WalterFootball.com Clowney lacked a good work ethic in his conditioning and took a significant amount of plays off last year. However after the opener, Clowney's effort and conditioning was a lot better the rest of the season after he took some criticism.
...
Clowney has totaled 35 tackles, three sacks, 10.5 tackles for a loss, two passes defended and a forced fumble in 2013.
...
The 6-foot-6, 272-pounder has the athletic talent to be a special player. The scary part is how good he could be if he develops an inner drive and a work ethic. http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

Vinny
12-06-2013, 02:30 PM
Mario, is that you?

bhsman
12-06-2013, 02:32 PM
So is it injury, or effort?

Did he quit on his team? Or does he require sugery?

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

He had a virus prior to the UNC game, and even then his tape looked great. Nothing about his tape speaks to a lack of commitment or effort.

htownfan32
12-06-2013, 02:41 PM
Do not want. If we're going pass rusher give me Barr.

Playoffs
12-06-2013, 02:58 PM
Mario, is that you?

There's an NFL coach -- I want to say Herm Edwards, but not sure -- who has a great philosophy about seeing what is...

Fat guys stay fat,
Injured guys get injured,
Lazy guys stay lazy.

Players "tell" you who they are... teams(NFL) don't always listen.

Honoring Earl 34
12-06-2013, 03:00 PM
He had 13 sacks and 23.5 TFL as a sophomore . That's the year everyone was drooling about . If I went with Clowney , I'd put him in JJs hip pocket .

redwhiteblue
12-07-2013, 01:44 PM
If I went with Clowney , I'd put him in JJs hip pocket .

Doesn't work. All the receivers we drafted who were supposed to learn from Andre never did. None of Payton's backups learned from him.

bhsman
12-07-2013, 03:35 PM
Doesn't work. All the receivers we drafted who were supposed to learn from Andre never did. None of Payton's backups learned from him.

I think he means putting him next to Watt in the scheme.

pirbroke
12-08-2013, 11:09 AM
I'm calling on Cloak to chime in on his opinion of bone spurs, yes I could google it but it's harder to find when what I want is the future performance of athletes. From what little I know I think it should be a non- issue, I'm more concerned with work ethic and the love of the game. We don't need to draft a Hainsworth.

Honoring Earl 34
12-08-2013, 12:02 PM
Doesn't work. All the receivers we drafted who were supposed to learn from Andre never did. None of Payton's backups learned from him.

Who was that ?

The Texans kept parading Walter out there to block . Besides Jacoby did ok once he left .

mussop
12-09-2013, 02:10 PM
I'm calling on Cloak to chime in on his opinion of bone spurs, yes I could google it but it's harder to find when what I want is the future performance of athletes. From what little I know I think it should be a non- issue, I'm more concerned with work ethic and the love of the game. We don't need to draft a Hainsworth.

It's a non issue. And maybe just maybe that contributed to his perceived lack of effort at times. I personally think all that has been overhyped. His stats have suffered (compared to last year) more because of teams game planning against him than lack of effort or lack of love for the game.

Texecutioner
12-09-2013, 02:31 PM
Who was that ?

The Texans kept parading Walter out there to block . Besides Jacoby did ok once he left .

Jacoby really didn't though. Look at his numbers as a receiver and they are still very pedestrian. The Ravens have needed a lot of help at receiver and he has yet to give what they need. He gets a KR and a big play every now and then and people tend to focus on that and remember just that. However, he is still a horrible route runner and is very inconsistent.

Playoffs
12-09-2013, 05:47 PM
Jadeveon Clowney stopped, cited with going 110 in a 70 (http://www.wistv.com/story/24174780/jadeveon-clowney-stopped-cited-with-going-110-in-a-70#.UqY6WJs73eg.twitter)

COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) -
The South Carolina Highway Patrol says they saw Jadeveon Clowney coming -- perhaps a bit too quickly -- and promptly cited the Gamecocks star defensive end with going 110 MPH in a 70 MPH zone.

Troopers say Clowney was pulled over in a Chrysler 300 around 7:30 p.m. Saturday night on Interstate 77 near mile marker 39.

Officials say he was immediately ticketed for $355, but not arrested in the stop.

According to state law, Clowney could have been imprisoned for not more than 30 days for the violation since he was driving 25 miles per hour over the speed limit...

Blake
12-09-2013, 06:23 PM
Jadeveon Clowney stopped, cited with going 110 in a 70 (http://www.wistv.com/story/24174780/jadeveon-clowney-stopped-cited-with-going-110-in-a-70#.UqY6WJs73eg.twitter)

Mario, is that you?

I guess it is! Haha :spin:

Texecutioner
12-09-2013, 07:58 PM
Man, there is so much bad press about this dude from his coaching staff, his school, and other media outlets all over the place. I mean, this guy was touted as a guy that the media really wanted to consider for a Heisman candidate, and he totally did not show up this season with all of the extra hype and media attention. It seems like so much of it went to his head and he has underperformed a lot. That doesn't seem like a gamer to me.

And after what this franchise experienced with Mario Williams, I just can't fathom why people want him over here when we already have our J.J. Watt. Of course I'd love to have another guy like that and all, but Clowney clearly isn't the same type of guy mentally. They are not cut from the same cloth. Clowney seems way to entitled already. Every time I see a guy go into the draft that is described as a guy who takes plays off and isn't always into the game, it seems like these guys way underperform from where they were drafted.

I think the Texans can find a guy that's a lot better of a prospect regardless if he isn't as talented. Talent isn't always the end all be all. Character, drive, and motivation are big time intangibles as well that need to be considered.

Playoffs
12-09-2013, 08:51 PM
I think he's off the list for character concerns.

Texecutioner
12-09-2013, 09:02 PM
Man, I sure hope so.

Marcus
12-09-2013, 09:14 PM
I agree with Tex. I don't know the entire story behind the reason or reasons why he's been a no-show this year, but I've been reading more than one report that it's because he wants to protect himself from getting injured, and becoming the next Marcus Lattimore.

That rubs me the wrong way.

Texecutioner
12-09-2013, 09:17 PM
I agree with Tex. I don't know the entire story behind the reason or reasons why he's been a no-show this year, but I've been reading more than one report that it's because he wants to protect himself from getting injured, and becoming the next Marcus Lattimore.

That rubs me the wrong way.

Man, there is so many things being said about that guy. Saying he walks around with this entourage, that he takes plays off, that he has worn out his welcome on his own team with the coaching staff, and etc. The list goes on and on. After having a guy like Mario and seeing his lack of effort for years, I think most teams would be nuts to draft Clowney in the top 10 to 15 picks.

Thorn
12-09-2013, 09:41 PM
He'll probably still get drafted fairly high, but hopefully not by the Texans. If we could pick him up in the 4th round or later I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him that way.

jaayteetx
12-09-2013, 11:16 PM
He'll probably still get drafted fairly high, but hopefully not by the Texans. If we could pick him up in the 4th round or later I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him that way.

4th round? You kidding me? He has 1st round Dallas Jerry's written all over him.

Texecutioner
12-09-2013, 11:17 PM
4th round? You kidding me? He has 1st round Dallas Jerry's written all over him.

Can't ever count out the Raiders. :texanbill:

Playoffs
12-09-2013, 11:21 PM
That rubs me the wrong way.

If a guy won't run through a brick wall for his college teammates I question his heart.

Wicked talent + no heart = risky pick.

mussop
12-09-2013, 11:53 PM
Man, there is so much bad press about this dude from his coaching staff, his school.

Please provide links to this.

bhsman
12-10-2013, 02:40 AM
Man, there is so much bad press about this dude from his coaching staff, his school, and other media outlets all over the place.

Yes, from many credible sources including:

Corrosion
12-10-2013, 08:51 AM
Yes, from many credible sources including:

Yeah , we're just making this sh!t up cause we want a QB bust with the #1 pick .... :chickendance:

bOODRO87
12-10-2013, 09:16 AM
It's now just silly for anyone to think the Texans will still draft Clowney with the type of red flags he has. How many players have we seen who have all the talent but don't have it between the ears? It happens every year. Throw in that he has an entourage and got caught going 110. I think it's a lock that Houston doesn't take him especially after the behavioral cuts the Texans had to make this season.

redwhiteblue
12-10-2013, 09:45 AM
Who was that ?

The Texans kept parading Walter out there to block . Besides Jacoby did ok once he left .

who remembers all the stories about keshawn martin, lestar jean, and devier posey learning from andre? dwight jones will come here and do well because andre will set him straight. jerome mathis. david anderson. jacoby. andre davis. kevin walter. eric moulds.

Texecutioner
12-10-2013, 10:02 AM
It's now just silly for anyone to think the Texans will still draft Clowney with the type of red flags he has. How many players have we seen who have all the talent but don't have it between the ears? It happens every year. Throw in that he has an entourage and got caught going 110. I think it's a lock that Houston doesn't take him especially after the behavioral cuts the Texans had to make this season.

You are probably right and I hope that you are. Depending on who the coach is though, things could possibly change. What if Mcnair hires a guy that doesn't want just boy scouts like Kubiak did? I doubt that would happen, but it's possible.

Corrosion
12-10-2013, 10:47 AM
You are probably right and I hope that you are. Depending on who the coach is though, things could possibly change. What if Mcnair hires a guy that doesn't want just boy scouts like Kubiak did? I doubt that would happen, but it's possible.

Its McNair who wants the boy scout image ...:kitten:

Dutchrudder
12-10-2013, 11:18 AM
Its McNair who wants the boy scout image ...:kitten:

Yep, which is why Clowney is off the board for us. Teddy is a good kid, and has zero character concerns. He will be the pick.

steelbtexan
12-10-2013, 12:36 PM
Yep, which is why Clowney is off the board for us. Teddy is a good kid, and has zero character concerns. He will be the pick.\

Sad but true and hopefully when Bridgewater isn't as good as everybody thinks he is Rick gets fired for this decision. In half a decade or so.

mussop
12-10-2013, 01:58 PM
It's now just silly for anyone to think the Texans will still draft Clowney with the type of red flags he has. How many players have we seen who have all the talent but don't have it between the ears? It happens every year. Throw in that he has an entourage and got caught going 110. I think it's a lock that Houston doesn't take him especially after the behavioral cuts the Texans had to make this season.

This is total bull****. First off, speeding is a reason not to draft someone? And this entourage crap, where is it coming from? Someone, anyone please post a credible link that actually has detail about this subject. There is none. And Please find one public statement from any of his coaches about his so called worn out welcome.

And these so called front office men who have leaked this crap, how much you want to bet they are praying he falls to them?

bOODRO87
12-10-2013, 02:39 PM
This is total bull****. First off, speeding is a reason not to draft someone? And this entourage crap, where is it coming from? Someone, anyone please post a credible link that actually has detail about this subject. There is none. And Please find one public statement from any of his coaches about his so called worn out welcome.

And these so called front office men who have leaked this crap, how much you want to bet they are praying he falls to them?


Junior DE Jadeveon Clowney has "worn out his welcome" at South Carolina, according to Dan Pompei.
"It has been well documented that Clowney plays and practices only when he feels like it," Pompei writes. "Other red flags with Clowney, according to multiple front-office men, are his unusual family situation, his entourage, his inconsistent work ethic and the fact that he has worn out his welcome at South Carolina. Some suspect he is motivated strictly by money, and a big payday could leave him too satisfied." These are strong words, and we will likely hear a lot more about the monstrous defensive end throughout the draft process. This, however, is the first instance of Clowney's family and entourage being questioned. Dec 6 - 1:20 PM

Take from it what you will. I'm well aware of the credibility of the source. However, he didn't have a phenomenal year so I don't believe FO men are putting out these red flags to have him drop. I think these rumors are enough for the Texans to let someone else find out if he's worth it. In my worthless opinion, I think there's a good chance Clowney has some hood in him and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he gets popped with drugs or a firearm in the future.

bhsman
12-10-2013, 02:42 PM
Take from it what you will. I'm well aware of the credibility of the source. However, he didn't have a phenomenal year so I don't believe FO men are putting out these red flags to have him drop. I think these rumors are enough for the Texans to let someone else find out if he's worth it. In my worthless opinion, I think there's a good chance Clowney has some hood in him and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he gets popped with drugs or a firearm in the future.

You should tell us how he's lazy and shiftless, or 'too hip-hop.'

bOODRO87
12-10-2013, 02:55 PM
You should tell us how he's lazy and shiftless, or 'too hip-hop.'

I find it hilarious that we see players get in trouble every year because they can't get away from the hood or their childhood friends/bad-influencing family members but yet so many on here are willing to roll the dice with the 1st pick on Clowney. Why even risk it? If he was such a good kid or hard worker, you wouldn't be seeing multiple sites talking about his red flags.

bhsman
12-10-2013, 03:03 PM
I find it hilarious that we see players get in trouble every year because they can't get away from the hood or their childhood friends/bad-influencing family members but yet so many on here are willing to roll the dice with the 1st pick on Clowney. Why even risk it? If he was such a good kid or hard worker, you wouldn't be seeing multiple sites talking about his red flags.

I see a lot of people parroting what they read without a good source and clutching their collective pearls rather than watch the actual tape, and it appears to be no different here.

michaelm
12-10-2013, 05:52 PM
Jadeveon Clowney stopped, cited with going 110 in a 70 (http://www.wistv.com/story/24174780/jadeveon-clowney-stopped-cited-with-going-110-in-a-70#.UqY6WJs73eg.twitter)

I think we should give him a break here. He obviously uses separate feet for brake and accelerator, and apparently the bone spur is on his left foot.

Texecutioner
12-10-2013, 06:12 PM
I see a lot of people parroting what they read without a good source and clutching their collective pearls rather than watch the actual tape, and it appears to be no different here.

You mean the tape that shows several games where he is ineffective and not playing nearly as hard as he can? His numbers aren't great and he has not had that great of a season. Amazing you would completely blow off so many red flags that have been out there from several sources on top of that. Sounds like the only tape you have watched was the tapes of ESPN fondeling over him at the beginning of the season. He won't ever be a Texan anyway. I'm certain of it at this point.

mussop
12-10-2013, 06:22 PM
Take from it what you will. I'm well aware of the credibility of the source. However, he didn't have a phenomenal year so I don't believe FO men are putting out these red flags to have him drop. I think these rumors are enough for the Texans to let someone else find out if he's worth it. In my worthless opinion, I think there's a good chance Clowney has some hood in him and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he gets popped with drugs or a firearm in the future.


I knew someone would post that Pompeii piece. Because that is the only "source"out there. That same piece has been regurgitated over and over again.

And WTF have you read other than that fluff turd you posted that would make you think "there's a good chance Clowney has some hood in him and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he gets popped with drugs or a firearm in the future".? Man I have to say, that remark reals of racism.

mussop
12-10-2013, 06:25 PM
:kitten:You mean the tape that shows several games where he is ineffective and not playing nearly as hard as he can? His numbers aren't great and he has not had that great of a season. Amazing you would completely blow off so many red flags that have been out there from several sources on top of that. Sounds like the only tape you have watched was the tapes of ESPN fondeling over him at the beginning of the season. He won't ever be a Texan anyway. I'm certain of it at this point.

Again, several sources? Care to share them? And this game tape you speak of, please tell me what games.

badboy
12-10-2013, 07:12 PM
So is it injury, or effort?

Did he quit on his team? Or does he require sugery?

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.phpI am not sure 3 tackle avg per game is an impact player that first pick should bring.

bOODRO87
12-10-2013, 07:54 PM
I knew someone would post that Pompeii piece. Because that is the only "source"out there. That same piece has been regurgitated over and over again.

And WTF have you read other than that fluff turd you posted that would make you think "there's a good chance Clowney has some hood in him and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he gets popped with drugs or a firearm in the future".? Man I have to say, that remark reals of racism.

Haha, racism huh? Jesus, dude.. So because I wouldn't want Rolando McClain, Fairley, Pacman, Chris Johnson, or even if he was playing, Aaron H. on the Texans, I'm a racist? I guess my admiration of Bridgewater wasn't true all along! No, all of those guys are idiots who can't lose the mentality or attitude from the crappy people they grew up with. I'm on my phone but I'll be back.

Edit from an actual computer:

Still not a racist at 7:50 pm... It's not rocket science to know that some players in the NFL act in a thuggish manner. They like the lifestyle. It's the same as rappers. Do you need a picture? And guess what, it doesn't matter what color your skin is. Like I said, if Clowney got busted for drugs or a firearm like so many players before him, I wouldn't be surprised. This guy is driving 110 mph during the more important time period of his life to keep things cool in order to be guaranteed millions. How am I sounding out of line when this happens all the time? He actually should have been arrested. Yawn, seen it before.

JB
12-10-2013, 07:56 PM
No, all of those guys are idiots

WoW

bOODRO87
12-10-2013, 08:06 PM
WoW

No. Not World of Warcraft. What do you have against gamers?! That's racist.

bhsman
12-10-2013, 09:58 PM
So, in sum: doing 110 on the interstate is the gateway to drugs and illegal possession of firearms, got it.

mussop
12-10-2013, 11:40 PM
So, in sum: doing 110 on the interstate is the gateway to drugs and illegal possession of firearms, got it.

Hey there's ONE "internet"report out there that suggests he has an "entourage". Couple that with the fact that he is black and Obviously the only logical conclusion is that he's a thug that has some hood in him and will no doubt get caught with drugs and an gun at some point.

Signed bOODRO87

TexansFTW
12-11-2013, 12:44 AM
This thread has become a joke.

Clowney supporters blinded by love of a hit on a RB in 2012, watching the same replay over and over again, telling everyone else they are an idiot if they won't carry his bags for him.

Clowney haters coming up w/ some pretty sketch at best arguments.

And BHSman, you asked me for proof in another thread and I quoted a credible source and you just completely ignored it and took a random shot at me. Get out of here bro.

"GIVE ME A SOURCE! GIVE ME A SOURCE!" Then you get it and you dismiss it. Here's your source bro, let me teach you how to Google, try any of the first 15 links you see from credible websites:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jadaveon+clowney+work+ethic

Clowney does have red flags, but regardless he's too talented to not go in the top 3. The Falcons at (probably) #3 will draft him and I'll bet 4 is the farthest he falls regardless of work ethic or red flags. Talking like he's out of the top 15 or not a day 1 draft pick is just asinine though.

As for character concerns because he was speeding, that is a joke. C'mon guys. Were you never 20 years old? I drove a piece of garbage car 100 miles an hour when I was 20 with friends because I was stupid, not because I had character problems.

Marcus
12-11-2013, 12:50 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5O88DoRPceE

If there are no concerns, then why give the talking heads something that would give the impression there are some concerns?

At the very least, it just looks bad.

bhsman
12-11-2013, 01:03 AM
This thread has become a joke.

Clowney supporters blinded by love of a hit on a RB in 2012, watching the same replay over and over again, telling everyone else they are an idiot if they won't carry his bags for him.

That's an unfair generalization. Clowney's tape from the Outback bowl is great and all (especially considering he's going against a potential 1st-round pick in Lewan) but I've been more impressed from his 2013 tape so far like his games against UNC (when he was dealing with a stomach virus) and Tennessee (where he didn't register a sack but basically lived in the backfield and it is most apparent that he's being schemed against - all while facing Antonio Richardson). Anyone who only uses The Hit to argue for Clowney is doing themselves a disservice, if anything.

And BHSman, you asked me for proof in another thread and I quoted a credible source and you just completely ignored it and took a random shot at me. Get out of here bro.

If that's the case, I apologize if I didn't address your argument fully. I'll see if I can find it if you don't repost the link here later.

"GIVE ME A SOURCE! GIVE ME A SOURCE!" Then you get it and you dismiss it. Here's your source bro, let me teach you how to Google, try any of the first 15 links you see from credible websites:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jadaveon+clowney+work+ethic
.

That is a very fancy way of telling me you don't have a direct source from South Carolina telling us about Clowney's work ethic, just a lot of hot air from the media. Half of those links are either about Clowney admitting his 2012 season could have been better and has since improved upon his work ethic, or from earlier in the season before it came out that he was dealing with a rib injury and bone spurs.

Even then a lot of them are some faceless 'NFL exec' or the words of a single scout from an earlier article magically becoming 'NFL Scouts' a month later. When I talk about sources, I'm talking about Spurrier or a coach, and even then I defer to tape. The exact same thing happened with Alshon Jeffery last year with people dragging a player's name through the mud over exaggerated 'red flags' despite the coaches and tape saying otherwise. Hell, an unsourced comment about Clowney with vague, non-specific references to an 'entourage' have brought out people claiming he still has too much 'hood' in him. Not you in particular, of course.

To an extent, I think a few Texans fans are hung up on how Mario turned out and are projecting that fear and resentment onto Clowney.

TexansFTW
12-11-2013, 01:19 AM
To an extent, I think a few Texans fans are hung up on how Mario turned out and are projecting that fear and resentment onto Clowney.

I read your whole thing, and I hear you on all of that. I'm only gonna quote this though.

Let it be known, I'm not a Clowney hater and it's obvious that teams are double teaming him way more now and game planning against him. I think the dude is top 5 talent, no doubt, but I just don't believe he is this game changing savior I get the feeling many make him out to be.

I just think the biggest game changer in this draft, SPECIFICALLY FOR THE TEXANS, is Teddy B. This is why I'm building him up so much and shooting down Clowney so much, even if it's unjust. I just don't think he is the right piece to the Texans horrible puzzle the way I feel Teddy B is.

As for hearing it straight from the horses mouth, you will almost NEVER hear that talk from a program with guys like Spurrier at the helm until long after his/their time at SC has past. That's not how professionals do business. One thing that most can't argue though is that generally when multiple media outlets report on their being smoke, somewhere there is fire.

Finally, as for your quote. You're damn right, I see a lot of Mario in Clowney. That's not to say Mario was bad, he was awesome, but we never took the next step with him on the field. It's time to look in a different direction and make that next step. Passing up on a potential franchise QB with the #1 pick is something I will never get behind.

bhsman
12-11-2013, 01:41 AM
And I'd be cool with Bridgewater as well, or a trade-down with Cleveland.

bOODRO87
12-11-2013, 07:55 AM
So, in sum: doing 110 on the interstate is the gateway to drugs and illegal possession of firearms, got it.

Hey there's ONE "internet"report out there that suggests he has an "entourage". Couple that with the fact that he is black and Obviously the only logical conclusion is that he's a thug that has some hood in him and will no doubt get caught with drugs and an gun at some point.

Signed bOODRO87

Ok, just completely disregard that MANY professional athletes think they can get away with breaking the law and end up getting in trouble with the law, ESPECIALLY in the NFL. The NFL actually has a black eye because of arrests. You two just keep living in your perfect little world, "Every child is a shooting star.." BS.

Oh yeah, you wanna talk how stupid this guy is? I saw the police dash cam. This guy was doing 110 on a two-lane road, at night, with people in the car. What a stand up guy.

gafftop
12-11-2013, 09:13 AM
Reminds me of Mario always something bothering him. Some injury always hindering him from playing 100%.

Texian
12-11-2013, 10:16 AM
The Hype Is No Joke
But neither is Jadeveon Clowney’s subpar junior season.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/11/jadeveon-clowney-south-carolina-nfl-draft-2014/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

mussop
12-11-2013, 10:18 AM
I haven't said once that I want Clowney. I wouldn't hate it but I want a franchise QB if there is one in this draft. I just hate seeing the character assassination going on based on Internet RUMORS.

mussop
12-11-2013, 10:44 AM
Reminds me of Mario always something bothering him. Some injury always hindering him from playing 100%.

He's had one semi subpar year. One!

Corrosion
12-11-2013, 10:49 AM
He's had one semi subpar year. One!

You are right , but when you add in all the other bullsh!t with that one sub par season .... Can you really draft the guy with the #1 overall pick ?!

TexansFTW
12-11-2013, 11:11 AM
He's had one semi subpar year. One!

1 subpar season? Are we talking about Mario here?

And also, what is your criteria of subpar? I, personally, have a different definition of subpar when I compare a #1 overall pick to any other DE not drafted, let's say.... top 15.

And while he was here and playing all that dude did was complain about this nagging injury or that nagging injury, it got real old. When you're the #1 pick and a physical beast, you gotta just man up.

All in all, I remember him missing 14 games (not to mention the games he left early) his final 2 years, a few subpar seasons counting his injury seasons, and a defensive liability if he couldn't make that loop move get to the QB fast enough.

I see a lot of Clowney in Mario. And I'll say it again, that's not necessarily a knock. Mario is a phenom, but I just don't want him in a Texans uniform again. The article about a few posts up was great too.

steelbtexan
12-11-2013, 11:11 AM
The Hype Is No Joke
But neither is Jadeveon Clowney’s subpar junior season.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/11/jadeveon-clowney-south-carolina-nfl-draft-2014/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

What injuries did Clowney suffer last yr?

He slacke off this yr to avoid injury.

I really dont want Bridgewater or Clowney. Hopefully the Texans can find a way to trade down, gather more picks and build a solid foundation for the 1st time since their inception.

In short, I dont think Bridgewater will be good enough to win a SB with. Pass

mussop
12-11-2013, 12:50 PM
:kitten:1 subpar season? Are we talking about Mario here?

And also, what is your criteria of subpar? I, personally, have a different definition of subpar when I compare a #1 overall pick to any other DE not drafted, let's say.... top 15.

And while he was here and playing all that dude did was complain about this nagging injury or that nagging injury, it got real old. When you're the #1 pick and a physical beast, you gotta just man up.

All in all, I remember him missing 14 games (not to mention the games he left early) his final 2 years, a few subpar seasons counting his injury seasons, and a defensive liability if he couldn't make that loop move get to the QB fast enough.

I see a lot of Clowney in Mario. And I'll say it again, that's not necessarily a knock. Mario is a phenom, but I just don't want him in a Texans uniform again. The article about a few posts up was great too.

I was talking about clowney. You're comparing him to Mario for one subpar year. And yes that article was great.

Playoffs
12-12-2013, 11:53 AM
MMQB:The Hype Is No Joke, but neither is Jadeveon Clowney’s subpar junior season. (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/11/jadeveon-clowney-south-carolina-nfl-draft-2014/)
Greg Bedard
“I think there’s flashes of brilliance and flashes of extreme inconsistency,” an AFC general manager says of Clowney. “I mean, it’s a boom or bust thing.”

“Bill Belichick would make a monster out of him,” says an NFC general manager, who likens Clowney’s physical attributes to those of former Patriots outside linebacker Willie McGinest, who was drafted fourth overall by Bill Parcells in 1994.

“Parcells would have loved to put [Clowney] at SAM linebacker outside and set that edge, and would have just loved this kid—the way he played, maybe not the kid himself,” adds the NFC personnel director.

“Looking at him this year compared to last year, it seemed like last year every single play was balls to the wall, hell on wheels,” says the AFC executive. “This year, there’s a lot of plays where he comes off the ball super hard, and if the ball is away he just kind of chills and watches the play. There’s definitely going to be some questions about that.”

“I don’t see how that is such a factor that a team would take him off their board,” says an AFC scouting director. “Yeah, he’s immature and a young kid, but you can also go against that and say when he had a chance to shut it down, he did decide to come back. I think some of that can be overblown.”

“Does [Clowney] have all the talent in the world? Yeah,” says the AFC GM. “For people to get secure with him, it’s going to come in the interviews, the one-on-ones with teams. They’ll try to get him off the pre-scripted stuff from the agent. You have to be able to pass that smell test. Whoever drafts him is going to dig into every nook and cranny on him. And they’re going to see what’s in his soul. They’re going to see what makes him tick.”

“He’s a man amongst boys,” says an NFC personnel director. “But he’s one of those guys that’s a Pro Bowler, or he could be a big-time bust depending on what’s on the inside. That’s what we’ll all be digging into.”

Most important/interesting to me...
Clowney isn’t a bend-around-the edge rusher like Robert Mathis, Robert Quinn, Von Miller or Aldon Smith. He is extremely stiff in the hips, a straight-line player. That’s why, in a survey of six NFL front office executives, Clowney is viewed optimally as a 4-3 left defensive end, where he can hold the edge against the tackle and/or tight end in the run and turn it loose when needed. He’ll be especially lethal when kicked inside in sub-packages to overwhelm guards.
...
Some old-school types feel that being a strong-side outside linebacker in a two-gap system would be best for Clowney, although the use of those schemes is dwindling because of the speed in today’s game.

Blake
12-12-2013, 03:22 PM
I really dont want Bridgewater or Clowney.

:yikes:

If you cant trade down, who do you take?

Corrosion
12-12-2013, 03:32 PM
:yikes:

If you cant trade down, who do you take?


If I cant trade down , I take Bridgewater and hope like hell he lives up to the potential.

Blake
12-12-2013, 03:33 PM
Depends upon how far back you trade. #3 I take Matthews or Barr.

#5-8 I take one of Cameron Irving , Trent Murphy , C.J. Mosley or Mike Evans.


I think Mosley is the best player in this draft.

Re-read. CANT trade down.

Corrosion
12-12-2013, 03:34 PM
Re-read. CANT trade down.

I did , edited my post ....

Blake
12-12-2013, 03:37 PM
If I cant trade down , I take Bridgewater and hope like hell he lives up to the potential.

Well said.

Corrosion
12-12-2013, 03:42 PM
Well said.


The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.

You might have to sit him for a year but you do have the potential of a probowl caliber QB for the next decade if he does reach that potential.
If not , we'll do it again in a couple years .... with a new coach.


If you don't have a franchise QB , go get one.

TexansFTW
12-12-2013, 05:49 PM
The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.

You might have to sit him for a year but you do have the potential of a probowl caliber QB for the next decade if he does reach that potential.
If not , we'll do it again in a couple years .... with a new coach.


If you don't have a franchise QB , go get one.

Well said.:ant:

b0ng
12-13-2013, 03:20 PM
If I cant trade down , I take Bridgewater and hope like hell he lives up to the potential.

Agreed. Well at least until we start seeing the nitty gritty of the draft process.

I don't know if the Mario/Clowney comparisons are very fair as Mario was a complete workout warrior and was not on the radar of #1 overall until the combine. He was a great prospect and probably was going to be the first DE off the board, but until scouts/GMs saw the 6'7" 290lb dude run like a 4.5 or something crazy he wasn't in talks of going that high.

I think in terms of trading down, the best bet might be with ATL who might covet either Clowney or Matthews and have traded higher up in the draft before. If they end up with the #2 pick though, I doubt that happens.

HOU-TEX
12-13-2013, 03:47 PM
I'd take Mathews over Clowney and Bridgewater. I think he'd be the safer bet of the bunch, being and olineman and a bloodline. That's IF we can't trade back. For what was looking like an awesome draft a few weeks ago sure looks like poop now

Marshall
12-13-2013, 05:27 PM
Can't ever count out the Raiders. :texanbill:

We'll have to see about that now that that A{rogant}L{oumouth} Davis isn't around. Oakland might actually learn how to draft now.

Corrosion
12-13-2013, 07:15 PM
I'd take Mathews over Clowney and Bridgewater. I think he'd be the safer bet of the bunch, being and olineman and a bloodline. That's IF we can't trade back. For what was looking like an awesome draft a few weeks ago sure looks like poop now

I'd definitely take Matthews over Clowney , Bridgewater , its still a toss up for me. I just cant decide .... IF I didn't trade back which at this point is my preference.


Yeah , with Mariota staying in school , now possibly Bridgewater ... and a few others , the top end talent sure looks a bit weak.

Texecutioner
12-13-2013, 11:06 PM
We'll have to see about that now that that A{rogant}L{oumouth} Davis isn't around. Oakland might actually learn how to draft now.

The minute Davis died they made a terrible trade getting rid of two first round draft picks for Carson Palmer. They haven't showed me that they are any different at all since he passed.

bhsman
12-14-2013, 01:56 AM
We are not taking a right tackle at first overall with Clowney and Bridgewater on the board.

Texian
12-14-2013, 06:20 AM
:yikes:

If you cant trade down, who do you take?

If I cant trade down , I take Bridgewater and hope like hell he lives up to the potential.

Blake Bortles = is cool as calm as collected a Joe Montana.

Lucky
12-14-2013, 07:53 AM
The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.

You just described David Carr coming out of college.

mussop
12-14-2013, 08:21 AM
You just described David Carr coming out of college.

Except that no one was projecting Carr as the number one pick. God was that a STUPID pick.

Corrosion
12-14-2013, 09:32 AM
You just described David Carr coming out of college.

Cant argue with that .... and probably a big part of why I struggle with taking him #1 overall. We've been down that road as Texans fans. It would be tragic to make the same mistake a second time.

Blake Bortles = is cool as calm as collected a Joe Montana.

There is a lot to like about Bortles ... But Im not gonna compare any college QB to Joe Cool. I'm old enough to remember those years , four Super Bowls wins & three Super Bowl MVP's ....

JB
12-14-2013, 09:35 AM
Except that no one was projecting Carr as the number one pick. God was that a STUPID pick.

Yeah it was a stupid pick or stupid handling of Carr, but the consensus was that it was going to be either Carr or Harrington going first iirc

infantrycak
12-14-2013, 09:36 AM
You just described David Carr coming out of college.

Pretty much. I think Carr's mechanics issues were more serious.

Except that no one was projecting Carr as the number one pick. God was that a STUPID pick.

Yes there were. WalterFootball (http://walterfootball.com/draft2002redraft.php) CNNSI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2002/draft/news/2002/04/09/mock_draft_two/) Draftcountdown (http://www.draftcountdown.com/archive/2002/2002-Mock.php) About.com (http://football.about.com/od/mockdrafthistory/a/bl_2002mock.htm) footballsfuture (http://www.footballsfuture.com/2002/2002_nfl_mock_draft.html)

PFW's 2002 mock draft
Joel Buchsbaum
PFW's 2002 mock draft has David Carr going No. 1 overall.

Texian
12-14-2013, 10:32 AM
There is a lot to like about Bortles ... But Im not gonna compare any college QB to Joe Cool. I'm old enough to remember those years, four Super Bowls wins & three Super Bowl MVP's ....

I have watched 4 Bortles games this year, several games with a last possession to win scenario. I was amazed at how calm, alert and focused he always is. Nothing rattled him and in each case he delivered. Those two characteristics, being calm and collected and the ability to orchestrate a game winning drive are what reminded me (IMHO) of "Joe Cool" and the "Comeback Kid" AKA Joe Montona. I too remember Montana very well, I was sitting in the Cotton Bowl watching Joe Cool dismantle Earl Campbell and the Texas Longhorns 38-10. I'll never forget the Cotton Bowl the following year, "The Chicken Soup" game, icicles hanging from the railing and Montana scoring as time ran out to beat Houston 35-34.

On another note, Belichick said the reason they drafted Brady in the 6th round was because of the number of Brady's game winning drives. All the kid did was win. Walsh also noted the same about Montana. Bortles had 4 such games this year.

Playoffs
12-14-2013, 01:41 PM
Yes there were. WalterFootball (http://walterfootball.com/draft2002redraft.php) CNNSI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2002/draft/news/2002/04/09/mock_draft_two/) Draftcountdown (http://www.draftcountdown.com/archive/2002/2002-Mock.php) About.com (http://football.about.com/od/mockdrafthistory/a/bl_2002mock.htm) footballsfuture (http://www.footballsfuture.com/2002/2002_nfl_mock_draft.html)
PFW's 2002 mock draft/Joel Buchsbaum
PFW's 2002 mock draft has David Carr going No. 1 overall.

Besides all of those people... :pop:

IDEXAN
12-14-2013, 10:44 PM
Clowney has 4 sacks this year, his specialty is being a pass-rusher, and he's the consensus if not unanimous top defensive pick in this years Draft ? What did I miss ?

JB
12-14-2013, 10:46 PM
Clowney has 4 sacks this year, his specialty is being a pass-rusher, and he's the consensus if not unanimous top defensive pick in this years Draft ? What did I miss ?

I don't think he's unanimous by any means...

mussop
12-14-2013, 11:50 PM
Pretty much. I think Carr's mechanics issues were more serious.



Yes there were. WalterFootball (http://walterfootball.com/draft2002redraft.php) CNNSI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2002/draft/news/2002/04/09/mock_draft_two/) Draftcountdown (http://www.draftcountdown.com/archive/2002/2002-Mock.php) About.com (http://football.about.com/od/mockdrafthistory/a/bl_2002mock.htm) footballsfuture (http://www.footballsfuture.com/2002/2002_nfl_mock_draft.html)


sorry worded that badly. My point was that no one had him RATED worthy of the number one pick.

bhsman
12-18-2013, 02:53 PM
Brett Kollman, film guru of BattleRedBlog, makes the case for Clowney (http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/12/18/5222864/2014-nfl-draft-making-the-case-for-jadaveon-clowney). Very interesting read, even for someone like me who watched cut-ups of Clowney's game against Tennessee, because Kollmann made the point to watch the entire game, and noted how Clowney was playing when he'd been on the field for a certain length of time, what the context of the play was (after a turnover by the Gamecock offense or whether he had been resting for 20 minutes due to a long drive) and how that affected his play.

Anyone who has questions about Clowney's "motor" or "heart" should give this a read.

TexansSeminole
12-19-2013, 07:41 AM
Brett Kollman, film guru of BattleRedBlog, makes the case for Clowney (http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/12/18/5222864/2014-nfl-draft-making-the-case-for-jadaveon-clowney). Very interesting read, even for someone like me who watched cut-ups of Clowney's game against Tennessee, because Kollmann made the point to watch the entire game, and noted how Clowney was playing when he'd been on the field for a certain length of time, what the context of the play was (after a turnover by the Gamecock offense or whether he had been resting for 20 minutes due to a long drive) and how that affected his play.

Anyone who has questions about Clowney's "motor" or "heart" should give this a read.

At the same time, that was his best game from what I saw. He doesn't always play that way.

steelbtexan
12-19-2013, 09:59 AM
At the same time, that was his best game from what I saw. He doesn't always play that way.

He constantly draws double teams though?

With Watt and Clowney on the same DL running a 4-3 the pass rush would be unbelieveable for a decade. Who is currently the Texans best pass rusher other than Watt? What is it about S.Carolina players? Alshon Jeffery got the same type of rap coming out of S.Carolina. He should be in the pro bowl this yr. Same thing with Swearinger minus the pro bowl. I think the problem isn't the players. It's Spurrier.

Is Clowney a generational talent? Is he the best pass rusher in this draft by far?

Is Bridgewater a generational talent? Is Bridgewater the best QB in this draft by far?

Bototm line is Rick will be setting the franchise back for a decade if he picks Bridgewater. IMHO Glitz and glamour over substance.

Marshall
12-19-2013, 10:05 AM
The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.

You might have to sit him for a year but you do have the potential of a probowl caliber QB for the next decade if he does reach that potential.
If not , we'll do it again in a couple years .... with a new coach.


If you don't have a franchise QB , go get one.

Short Memory? He just found out he wasn't being charged with rape. Guilty or not, it's a concern.

bhsman
12-19-2013, 12:57 PM
At the same time, that was his best game from what I saw. He doesn't always play that way.

Brett just used that game as an example because the entire thing is online and he was better able to make his point about the context of plays when discussing Clowney's effort or lack thereof.

Playoffs
12-19-2013, 01:07 PM
"Jadevon Clowney is Albert Haynesworth with a better first step." @ClayTravisBGID, after discussing on-field effort

Ouch. http://hyves-smileys.immerblei.com/img/smiley_blackeye.gif

Ryan
12-19-2013, 02:16 PM
Short Memory? He just found out he wasn't being charged with rape. Guilty or not, it's a concern.


:toropalm: that was Jameis Winston