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Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 05:42 PM
So Kubiak is going to roll with this same guy who almost cost us the game last week? Clearly Kubiak is showing that he refuses to learn form previous mistakes in other seasons. He ignored all of the problems Brown was having that one year that cost the Texans games, and wouldn't work out other kickers then. Here we go again. This kicker being on our roster will end up causing us to lose a game or maybe two if we don't find someone else. This kid is green and has only proven that he can't be consistent thus far. We should have lost to the Titans last week, and wouldn't have even been in that position if it wasn't for all those missed kicks.

ThaJokaa
09-21-2013, 05:45 PM
He's a rookie, (Technically) He'll be fine

Exascor
09-21-2013, 05:46 PM
Discussed at length - http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101003

BullBlitz
09-21-2013, 05:56 PM
He's a rookie, (Technically) He'll be fine

That sums up Kubiak's position pretty well.

He's basically just betting that Bullock will come out of the slump, without knowing whether he will or not. It would be interesting to see how he would react if missed FGs start resulting in losses.

steelbtexan
09-21-2013, 06:06 PM
He's an Aggie

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 06:10 PM
He's a rookie, (Technically) He'll be fine

You just start watching football a month ago? Because if your statement suggests that any kicker entering the NFL will be fine once they get out of their "rookie stage" is extremely ignorant from a historical perspective. There is "nothing" that suggests he'll be fine once he isn't a rookie. And even if that were true, you are advocating that his struggles hurting the team "this season" would be perfectly fine because once he isn't a rookie that he'll be okay. We have already had a struggling kicker help to ruin one season on this franchise, and a struggling kicker can easily change who wins the SB.

Showtime100
09-21-2013, 06:12 PM
That sums up Kubiak's position pretty well.

He's basically just betting that Bullock will come out of the slump, without knowing whether he will or not. It would be interesting to see how he would react if missed FGs start resulting in losses.

Simple, he'll be gone. In the mean time he still is the best they have right now and the Texans are not willing, and I agree, to kneejerk him out of here already. I also believe he's best there is compared to what's available. Too much upside.

If Houston got rid of him he would have a job before the day is out. He's got a great leg.

If this continues in Baltimore and certainly beyond the Baltimore game I'll be ready to cut our losses and bring in George Blanda, but as of right now I think it's too early.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 06:16 PM
That sums up Kubiak's position pretty well.

He's basically just betting that Bullock will come out of the slump, without knowing whether he will or not. It would be interesting to see how he would react if missed FGs start resulting in losses.

Obviously he doesn't, because when Brown struggled all season and did cause us to lose two games, Kubiak still never tried out other kickers. If one wants to search hard enough, we could probably find the old threads where this was debated like 4 years ago. It would be interesting to see all of the people that were defending Kubiak's lack of action then and to see if it ends up happening again.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 06:17 PM
Simple, he'll be gone. In the mean time he still is the best they have right now and the Texans are not willing, and I agree, to kneejerk him out of here already. I also believe he's best there is compared to what's available. Too much upside.

If Houston got rid of him he would have a job before the day is out. He's got a great leg.

If this continues in Baltimore and certainly beyond the Baltimore game I'll be ready to cut our losses and bring in George Blanda, but as of right now I think it's too early.

If we lost to Baltimore though because of some kick that was missed at the end of the game, that could potentially have us out of the playoffs if we were tied up with a few other teams or fighting for some wild card position. It isn't something you can just blow off. That dude missed a lot of kicks last week. It wasn't just one or two.

Nawzer
09-21-2013, 06:23 PM
Are you kidding me?! This is Gary Kubiak we're talking about. This man is so oblivious/loyal that even if one of his player's was the son of Satan he wouldn't cut him. It takes things to get really bad for him to realize something is wrong. And by something wrong I mean like a catastrophic playoff loss.

Showtime100
09-21-2013, 06:30 PM
If we lost to Baltimore though because of some kick that was missed at the end of the game, that could potentially have us out of the playoffs if we were tied up with a few other teams or fighting for some wild card position. It isn't something you can just blow off. That dude missed a lot of kicks last week. It wasn't just one or two.

I'm with ya brother *fingers crossed*

I just don't know who we would get to replace him. I also wonder if the shorter kicks are giving him the heebies too.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 06:40 PM
I'm with ya brother *fingers crossed*

I just don't know who we would get to replace him. I also wonder if the shorter kicks are giving him the heebies too.

I'd like to be wrong, but that kicker didn't just have a bad day. He had an atrocious day. He had the worst day of all time in Texans history for a kicker. And he hasn't ever proven that he "can" be consistent like Brown had at least in the past before he withered.

mattieuk
09-21-2013, 07:01 PM
I'd like to be wrong, but that kicker didn't just have a bad day. He had an atrocious day. He had the worst day of all time in Texans history for a kicker. And he hasn't ever proven that he "can" be consistent like Brown had at least in the past before he withered.

I think Bullock will get to stick around until he at least causes a lost game (probably more likely 2 or 3). I'm willing to give him slack like Kubiak is doing, as I wouldn't be comfortable on cutting him on the limited evidence that we have available. He's obviously done enough to have the job in practice, and he did deal with the pressure of a game winning field goal in week 1, and (as should most NFL kickers) has made 85-90% of his kickoffs touchbacks.

Kubiak has stood by struggling kickers before, and I don't have a huge problem with that. I think it is a hard position to change mid-season (perhaps the most difficult). Even trying out other kickers could prove to unsettle the incumbent even more, due to the sporadic, mentally demanding, high pressure nature of a kicker's game involvement. Unfortunately as a kicker a streak of missed field goals will see you out of a job at the pro level pretty quickly.

The final thing to consider is, does Kubiak want to cut another highly touted special teams player, and risk another Trindon Holliday embarrassment? Every time be bring back a return, the announcers mention for the country to listen how the Texans didn't stand behind their guy after a few weeks of the season, and how the Broncos have benefited. There is ever chance that Bullock comes out of his rookie jitter session - and due to the draft pick and time that the Texans have obviously invested in Bullock, I don't think that he'll be getting any knee-jerk release papers.

Potentially comforting fact of the day: Sebastian Janikowski missed 3 of his first 4 NFL field goal attempts, and in his entire rookie year was only asked to make 4 50+ yarders, making only 1 of them.

steelbtexan
09-21-2013, 07:05 PM
I'm with ya brother *fingers crossed*

I just don't know who we would get to replace him. I also wonder if the shorter kicks are giving him the heebies too.

Fingers crossed for me too.

Graham/Rackers/Kickalicious are available.

Bulls on Parade
09-21-2013, 07:58 PM
Havard Rugland is a free agent?

I'm shocked he didn't make the Lions or Packers roster.

The kid was nails in the pre-season. 3-for-3, including a 50-yarder he drilled with ease. The same distance Randy Bullock apparently can't make.

HouTx11
09-21-2013, 08:00 PM
Ok, so in a perfect world Bullock makes all 3 of his field goals, and Rob Bironas makes all of his field goal kicks. End result: Texans win the game by 6 points in regulation instead of by 6 points in OT.

To me, the real problem is: Why are the Texans only winning these games by 3 and 6 points? That is where the real problem lies.

ArlingtonTexan
09-21-2013, 08:11 PM
Probably what ever the strange reason why an unproven kicker did not have to beat out a boring veteran option during the pre-season.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 08:18 PM
Ok, so in a perfect world Bullock makes all 3 of his field goals, and Rob Bironas makes all of his field goal kicks. End result: Texans win the game by 6 points in regulation instead of by 6 points in OT.

To me, the real problem is: Why are the Texans only winning these games by 3 and 6 points? That is where the real problem lies.

NFL games are won and lost by kickers all of the time. Every week and by multiple teams. Multiple games every season are won and lost by a kicker. SB's are won and lost by a kicker a lot. No, it is a BIG DEAL. Whether you're killing teams now or not, if you have a very shaky inconsistent kicker that has never proven anything, then yes it's a concern.

HouTx11
09-21-2013, 08:29 PM
NFL games are won and lost by kickers all of the time. Every week and by multiple teams. Multiple games every season are won and lost by a kicker. SB's are won and lost by a kicker a lot. No, it is a BIG DEAL. Whether you're killing teams now or not, if you have a very shaky inconsistent kicker that has never proven anything, then yes it's a concern.

NFL games are also won and lost by more than just one score. What I am saying is that there are other BIG DEAL concerns on this team other than the kicker, which yes is a concern but I'm not giving up on Bullock yet. It is too early to say that he won't be able to turn it around.

Again, the fact that we are having to rely on the kicker (whoever he is) to win every game so far is also a very BIG DEAL!

/thread

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 08:42 PM
NFL games are also won and lost by more than just one score. What I am saying is that there are other BIG DEAL concerns on this team other than the kicker, which yes is a concern but I'm not giving up on Bullock yet. It is too early to say that he won't be able to turn it around.

Again, the fact that we are having to rely on the kicker (whoever he is) to win every game so far is also a very BIG DEAL!

/thread

That is only a big deal because those games were against the Titans and the Chargers who weren't thought of as good teams before we played them.

Our kicker is currently one of the biggest problems on this team from what I have seen thus far. He cost the team like 9 points last game, and missed the last kick like 3 out of 4 times. That was not just a choke. That was an epic "Ian Howfield" choke. When our kicker was struggling for us last season Kubiak cost us the game against the Jags on Thanksgiving by not going for the first down to get a TD or a really close easy kick and just ran the ball making it a very difficult kick. Our kicker missed the FG and sent the game into OT where the Jags just gave us the game, but Kubiak's decision making cost us that game and we should have lost. Brown struggled all season a few years ago and then missed two game winning FG's the year we went 9-7 and missed the post season. The fact that Kubiak ignored the idea of finding a kicker to try out in mid season cost us a playoff spot. You guys really do like to forget things like this when you like a HC. This is history that shouldn't be forgotten especially when you are already seeing similar problems taking place this early in the season.

thunderkyss
09-21-2013, 08:52 PM
What are the odds that we'll land the only FA kicker off the street that will not miss a 50+ yard field goal?

Why would we believe Rick Smith can find a better kicker than the one he saved a roster spot for?

CloakNNNdagger
09-21-2013, 08:54 PM
Havard Rugland is a free agent?

I'm shocked he didn't make the Lions or Packers roster.

The kid was nails in the pre-season. 3-for-3, including a 50-yarder he drilled with ease. The same distance Randy Bullock apparently can't make.

He lost out to a very established Akers.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 08:54 PM
What are the odds that we'll land the only FA kicker off the street that will not miss a 50+ yard field goal?

Why would we believe Rick Smith can find a better kicker than the one he saved a roster spot for?

Then fine, just accept the fact that it's impossible to improve the position where an unproven guy is there. No reason in trying at all to see what is there right? We already have the best option in the guy that cost the team 9 points last game and missed 3 out of 4 kicks. :kubepalm:

Tailgate
09-21-2013, 08:56 PM
Wasnt Bullock like 29 of 33 his senior year? They see him everyday in practice. It was ONE bad game. He has all the talent.

Most likely we cut him like you want and he goes and has a great career for somebody else.

Sounds like another Kubiak is stubborn thread.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 08:59 PM
Wasnt Bullock like 29 of 33 his senior year? They see him everyday in practice. It was ONE bad game. He has all the talent.

Most likely we cut him like you want and he goes and has a great career for somebody else.

Sounds like another Kubiak is stubborn thread.

So because he is struggling horribly it is most likely that he goes on and has a great career for somebody else?? I can't even fathom how you came up with that logic as a conclusion based on what has lead up to this thread.

76Texan
09-21-2013, 09:01 PM
Duane Brown was horrible early in his career; he should have been cut.
Kareem Jackson should have been cut.
Mercilus should have been cut.
Kubiak is a stubborn biatch. :kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
09-21-2013, 09:11 PM
The final thing to consider is, does Kubiak want to cut another highly touted special teams player, and risk another Trindon Holliday embarrassment? Every time be bring back a return, the announcers mention for the country to listen how the Texans didn't stand behind their guy after a few weeks of the season, and how the Broncos have benefited. There is ever chance that Bullock comes out of his rookie jitter session - and due to the draft pick and time that the Texans have obviously invested in Bullock, I don't think that he'll be getting any knee-jerk release papers.

The Holliday situation IMO was very different. His debacle was mostly on the blocking fiasco known as his supporting STs. Bullock's position is very much more a one-on-one responsibility position.

For success, with a Holliday, "it takes a village." With a Bullock, the village usually can only watch.

Say Watt
09-21-2013, 09:18 PM
Duane Brown was horrible early in his career; he should have been cut.
Kareem Jackson should have been cut.
Mercilus should have been cut.
Kubiak is a stubborn biatch. :kitten:

Well said.

I'd also add that there have been plenty of kickers that have started their careers off with some poor showings only to end up turning it around and becoming excellent kickers. This is not a Randy Bullock problem so much as it is a problem with many kickers that enter the NFL. It is a pressure packed situation. Let's not forget Bullock just kicked a 41 yd game winning field goal in week 1. Methinks Texecutioner's Longhorn love is playing into his quick temper tantrum in regards to Bullock.

Tailgate
09-21-2013, 09:21 PM
So because he is struggling horribly it is most likely that he goes on and has a great career for somebody else?? I can't even fathom how you came up with that logic as a conclusion based on what has lead up to this thread.

So you are basing everything off of one game?

Tailgate
09-21-2013, 09:23 PM
Well said.

I'd also add that there have been plenty of kickers that have started their careers off with some poor showings only to end up turning it around and becoming excellent kickers. This is not a Randy Bullock problem so much as it is a problem with many kickers that enter the NFL. It is a pressure packed situation. Let's not forget Bullock just kicked a 41 yd game winning field goal in week 1. Methinks Texecutioner's Longhorn love is playing into his quick temper tantrum in regards to Bullock.

Its not in regards to Bullock. Its in regards to Kubiak.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 09:27 PM
So you are basing everything off of one game?

One game for a guy that has proven nothing and is a rookie or 2nd year player that cost the team 9 points and missed 3 out of 4 FG's at the end of a game. Yes, that is what I am basing this on. That game was the equivalent to 3 or 4 bad games as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not saying we have to replace him, but we should be at least working with other guys and trying them out. YOu don't think that competition could help this guy at least if we ended up keeping him out of everyone that competed? It would at least send the message that Kubiak isn't messing around and will replace guys if they aren't up to task. If Kubiak held some tryouts and still wanted our current guy, then I'd be alright with it for this season at least since he at least tried to see what else was out there to. If you look for better options, and end up having to use the best out of all the options and he was that guy then so be it. But simply blowing it off and and acting like this problem can't potentially cost us a playoff spot or something like that with a loss from a kick or two would be ignoring history that could repeat itself.

Speedy
09-21-2013, 09:28 PM
He lost out to a very established Akers.

I don't think he "lost" out. They just went with experience over a guy who had never played a football game ever. Akers missed 13 FGs last season and is already 2-4 this season. Rugland hit every kick he had, only 3 but still. 33, 49 and 50 were his FGs.

Rugland's problem might have been his kickoffs. Only 2 of his 6 KOs were touchbacks.

BullBlitz
09-21-2013, 09:29 PM
I think Bullock will get to stick around until he at least causes a lost game (probably more likely 2 or 3).

The final thing to consider is, does Kubiak want to cut another highly touted special teams player, and risk another Trindon Holliday embarrassment.

Keep someone who he knows isn't doing well until he really begins to cost the team. And keep someone because he doesn't want to risk being publicly wrong.

Definitely. That's how to build a winner.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 09:29 PM
Duane Brown was horrible early in his career; he should have been cut.
Kareem Jackson should have been cut.
Mercilus should have been cut.
Kubiak is a stubborn biatch. :kitten:

You pretty much said nothing here.

Tailgate
09-21-2013, 09:30 PM
One game for a guy that has proven nothing and is a rookie or 2nd year player that cost the team 9 points and missed 3 out of 4 FG's at the end of a game. Yes, that is what I am basing this on. That game was the equivalent to 3 or 4 bad games as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not saying we have to replace him, but we should be at least working with other guys and trying them out. YOu don't think that competition could help this guy at least if we ended up keeping him out of everyone that competed? It would at least send the message that Kubiak isn't messing around and will replace guys if they aren't up to task. If Kubiak held some tryouts and still wanted our current guy, then I'd be alright with it for this season at least since he at least tried to see what else was out there to. If you look for better options, and end up having to use the best out of all the options and he was that guy then so be it. But simply blowing it off and and acting like this problem can't potentially cost us a playoff spot or something like that with a loss from a kick or two would be ignoring history that could repeat itself.

Yes, you can definitely put me in the blow it off camp right now. Not even on my radar of concern, because one game does not make an ENTIRE CAREER for me.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 09:33 PM
Well said.

I'd also add that there have been plenty of kickers that have started their careers off with some poor showings only to end up turning it around and becoming excellent kickers. This is not a Randy Bullock problem so much as it is a problem with many kickers that enter the NFL. It is a pressure packed situation. Let's not forget Bullock just kicked a 41 yd game winning field goal in week 1. Methinks Texecutioner's Longhorn love is playing into his quick temper tantrum in regards to Bullock.

What the hell do the Longhorns have to do with this?

You're sticking up for a kicker that hasn't proven squat other then the fact that he's capable of costing a team games. Holler at me when he shows some consistency before acting like I'm "freaking out." Again, a lot of you like to forget history where Kubiak's loyalty to not one, but two "Browns" in one season single handily cost the Texans a playoff spot. But, we should just ignore that and act like it couldn't possibly happen again, because that is what SB winning HC's do.

Marcus
09-21-2013, 09:33 PM
Kubiak is a stubborn biatch. :kitten:

Yeah, it's just too bad that more knee-jerk fans don't consider that to be an admirable trait for a head coach. :kitten:

Me thinks you want to pull the trigger on Bullock just a little bit too quickly, Tex. Especially in the middle of the season where all the good ones are already taken.

Be careful what you're asking for.

Texecutioner
09-21-2013, 09:36 PM
Yeah, it's just too bad that more knee-jerk fans don't consider that to be an admirable trait for a head coach. :kitten:

Me thinks you want to pull the trigger on Bullock just a little bit too quickly, Tex. Especially in the middle of the season where all the good ones are already taken.

Be careful what you're asking for.

I haven't stated one time throughout this thread that this guy should be cut. I'm advocating for the same thing I advocated for several years ago when Brown killed us in several games which is to try out some new kickers and see what is out there. If Bullock can out play all of these guys after we kick some tires around, then so be it. What on earth is wrong with trying out other guys after the display that took place last week?

CloakNNNdagger
09-21-2013, 09:43 PM
Well said.

I'd also add that there have been plenty of kickers that have started their careers off with some poor showings only to end up turning it around and becoming excellent kickers. This is not a Randy Bullock problem so much as it is a problem with many kickers that enter the NFL. It is a pressure packed situation. Let's not forget Bullock just kicked a 41 yd game winning field goal in week 1. Methinks Texecutioner's Longhorn love is playing into his quick temper tantrum in regards to Bullock.

This kick today is essentially at least a high percentage (>85%) conversion. He is expected to make it, not be gloated over for it.

Advanced NFL Stats show the increasing distance conversion percentages through 2011. No reason to believe this stat has not continued its upward trend. The article underscores the importance of having a good kicker.


Kickers Are Getting Better and Better (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2012/09/kickers-are-getting-better-and-better.html)




http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a479/hatch113/kicksuccessbyera.png

Tailgate
09-21-2013, 09:44 PM
I haven't stated one time throughout this thread that this guy should be cut. I'm advocating for the same thing I advocated for several years ago when Brown killed us in several games which is to try out some new kickers and see what is out there. If Bullock can out play all of these guys after we kick some tires around, then so be it. What on earth is wrong with trying out other guys after the display that took place last week?

Trying them out? As in give them playing time? Because how do you know how Bullock is kicking in practice? Maybe he is drilling everything? Then what is the point except taking up another roster space.

Lets face it, you wanted to title this "why arent we looking for another head coach".

steelbtexan
09-21-2013, 09:45 PM
I'm not for letting Bullock go right now. But if this continues for 2-3 more games then the tale will be told in my mind. (Not Gary's)

Aggies are thick as thieves on this MB. There's always some kind of excuse. I mean y'all are showing Bullock more love than y'all did K.Brown.

I've got my doubts about how bad Bullock was injured last yr. Gary was going to keep Bullock some way despite Bullock being out performed by the utterly forgetable Graham.

Tailgate
09-21-2013, 09:47 PM
This kick today is essentially at least a high percentage (>85%) conversion. He is expected to make it, not be gloated over for it.

Advanced NFL Stats show the increasing distance conversion percentages through 2011. No reason to believe this stat has not continued its upward trend. The article underscores the importance of having a good kicker.


Kickers Are Getting Better and Better (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2012/09/kickers-are-getting-better-and-better.html)




Which is why we used a draft pick on the kid. Using a draft pick on a kicker is an investment, expecting this guy to be your fg kicker for many years. And one bad game does not immediately thwart the whole damn plan.

Marcus
09-21-2013, 09:53 PM
What on earth is wrong with trying out other guys after the display that took place last week?

Because, as a head coach, that would indicate that you're panicking after one game. Something you should consider if you don't want your kicker to think you've already lost confidence in him. Not after just one game.

Edit: And just to be clear, I ain't no stinking Aggie.

ArlingtonTexan
09-21-2013, 10:00 PM
Which is why we used a draft pick on the kid. Using a draft pick on a kicker is an investment, expecting this guy to be your fg kicker for many years. And one bad game does not immediately thwart the whole damn plan.

the plan is to have a player who performs the task that is assigned. If the 5th round pick isn't good enough, "investment" be damned. On Sunday Randy B. did not perform. Is one week enough to blindly cut him? Probably not. but then again, I would have had a generic veteran kicker on the roster this off-season for competition.

dalemurphy
09-21-2013, 10:02 PM
Fingers crossed for me too.

Graham/Rackers/Kickalicious are available.


You are talking about signing guys that will ensure a loss of 10 yards of field position per kickoff and will struggle to make 50 yard field goals. Realize that Bullock is striking the ball very well... He had the 51 yard on the first timeout... Eventually, missing the 46 yarder off the upright. Earlier in the game, he nailed that 50 yard kick- hitting it so pure that the draw didn't work back into the goal until 5 yards past when it smacked into the net. Literally, that 50 yard miss would have been good from 65 yards.

I am worried as well. But, assuming the worst case scenario is not the way to lead a football team. My guess is that if his struggles continue, they will find a roster spot for a second kicker... similar to what New Orleans did a few years ago with Hartley when he was young and inconsistent.

dalemurphy
09-21-2013, 10:04 PM
I would have had a generic veteran kicker on the roster this off-season for competition.

The result would be the same... Bullock would've won the job and the Texans would be in the exact position they are in.

thunderkyss
09-21-2013, 10:07 PM
You're sticking up for a kicker that hasn't proven squat other then the fact that he's capable of costing a team games...

He won one game... almost cost us another. We don't have any extra roster spots. I don't think anyone wants to waste their time with a charade of a kicker competition.

Kickers get replaced all the time. It's not like they have to learn the play book. If we get to the point where they feel it's time to move on, we'll move on. Right now they feel like it's time to show their support for him, to nurture him.

I can imagine Bullock using that game as motivation for the rest of the season & using it to kick the game winning kick in the Super Bowl.

Showtime100
09-21-2013, 10:13 PM
The result would be the same... Bullock would've won the job and the Texans would be in the exact position they are in.

Dale, I just clicked your sig (Texans Bull Blog) and after looking around at three different places all I saw were things from 11 months ago.

What gives? I can come here and find out things faster than most news organizations have it.

I mean no harm or disrespect at all, just wondering why I would want to go there.

(sorry for the hijacking folks! :))

steelbtexan
09-21-2013, 10:22 PM
You are talking about signing guys that will ensure a loss of 10 yards of field position per kickoff and will struggle to make 50 yard field goals. Realize that Bullock is striking the ball very well... He had the 51 yard on the first timeout... Eventually, missing the 46 yarder off the upright. Earlier in the game, he nailed that 50 yard kick- hitting it so pure that the draw didn't work back into the goal until 5 yards past when it smacked into the net. Literally, that 50 yard miss would have been good from 65 yards.

I am worried as well. But, assuming the worst case scenario is not the way to lead a football team. My guess is that if his struggles continue, they will find a roster spot for a second kicker... similar to what New Orleans did a few years ago with Hartley when he was young and inconsistent.

This is what I want the Texans to do. Sign a reliable K and let Bullock kick off. This is only if he doesn't improve over the next couple of games. I mean would gaining on kickoffs/ST's be worth cutting Andrew Gardner for example.

MEGA SWATT
09-21-2013, 10:33 PM
2-0. :clown:

ArlingtonTexan
09-21-2013, 10:42 PM
The result would be the same... Bullock would've won the job and the Texans would be in the exact position they are in.

You nor I actually "know" that for sure.

bckey
09-21-2013, 10:59 PM
I think it is a hard position to change mid-season (perhaps the most difficult).


you are kidding right?

mattieuk
09-21-2013, 11:21 PM
The Holliday situation IMO was very different. His debacle was mostly on the blocking fiasco known as his supporting STs. Bullock's position is very much more a one-on-one responsibility position.

For success, with a Holliday, "it takes a village." With a Bullock, the village usually can only watch.

Completely agree, but I think that will be the perception. I wouldn't be surprised if on some level regret for letting Trindon go factors into Kubiak's decision (if there is a decision to be made) on Bullock. We know that Kubiak is a pretty (well...very) conservative coach, and I think that the mistake with Trindon would be small factor for forming future decisions of this nature.

Keep someone who he knows isn't doing well until he really begins to cost the team. And keep someone because he doesn't want to risk being publicly wrong.

Definitely. That's how to build a winner.

He wouldn't keep him if he caused multiple losses - however I think that the potential fallout might keep him from making a decision earlier.

Kubiak has stuck behind him, because he has to for now - unless you want him to cut Bullock? He has to support the kicker that they've brought in and stuck by, and cut him loose. A mid-season kicking contest would be madness, to me.

you are kidding right?

It is a difficult position to change - especially from the perspective of a coach (which is what this whole thread is about).

In this case we are talking about one single player on the roster, who does a hugely important job. We have invested a draft pick in this player, which is an astronomical price to pay for a kicker - and creates an investment from the organisation to a player.

Furthermore, even bringing in another player creates mental uncertainty for the kicker, in a position which is hugely dependent on mentality in high pressure situations. To actually change kicker is, in 90% of the cases an in-reversable decision, as teams will only have one roster spot for a kicker.

So now you have a coach who has to make a decision on a player who is performing poorly, but is a rookie and playing on a 2-0 team who has had a large investment placed in him. Furthermore, add to that the job is made or broken on mentality, which is a largely un-calculable skillset until in the heat of the battle. All of this knowing he is going to be lamented if the cut kicker goes on to perform well and equally lamented if he puts faith in the kicker which turns out to be misplaced.

Yeah - if I'm a head coach I'll take putting my backup QB in for a start over having to go through a mid-season kicker replacement any day.

steelbtexan
09-21-2013, 11:39 PM
you are kidding right?

Apparently not,

All I know is Fat Randy better start making most of his FG's including the important ones, or the fanbase will turn on him. Regardless whether Gary cuts him or not.

We saw this with K.Brown and it wasn't pretty.

thunderkyss
09-22-2013, 12:13 AM
No one should be happy that our kicker missed three field goals in our last game.

However, I think it is a bit premature to think this is a "problem." It's still one game. We expect him to be able to forget a bad kick & come back & drill another 50+ yarder. Didn't happen, that's something he needs to work on.

Then that last kick that would have won the game in regulation... that was some weird crap..... he drilled the first one, but Munchak called timeout. The next one was blocked, luckily their player was offsides.. then Munchak iced him again... 4 kicks in a row.... awkward circumstances..... eh..

At least he experienced some things & he'll be better prepared next time.


Three kicks..... yeah. But it's just one game.

thunderkyss
09-22-2013, 12:15 AM
We saw this with K.Brown and it wasn't pretty.

Totally different situation. Brown was who he was by the time we got him.

This might be the motivation to make Randy Bullock the greatest kicker of all time.... (a little hyperbole).

Lucky
09-22-2013, 09:11 AM
Kubiak has stuck behind him, because he has to for now - unless you want him to cut Bullock? He has to support the kicker that they've brought in and stuck by, and cut him loose. A mid-season kicking contest would be madness, to me.

It is a difficult position to change - especially from the perspective of a coach (which is what this whole thread is about).

Furthermore, even bringing in another player creates mental uncertainty for the kicker, in a position which is hugely dependent on mentality in high pressure situations. To actually change kicker is, in 90% of the cases an in-reversable decision, as teams will only have one roster spot for a kicker.
First, bringing in another kicker during the week is SOP in the NFL. It's been done forever. And if the incumbent kicker can't handle that pressure with coaches watching, how will he handle it on Sundays with 70,000 watching?

I'm not saying it's time to cut Bullock loose. But, it's not too soon to bring in some competition if he has another shaky week. Because kicker is far and away the easiest position at which to make a midseason change

kingtexan
09-22-2013, 09:37 AM
Why aren't we looking for a kicker? Because we don't need one ...

Two games does not a season make.

Kid will be fine.

Bulls on Parade
09-22-2013, 09:58 AM
2-0. :clown:
If the Texans reach 3-0 today but Randy Bullock misses another one or two field goals, I would overlook it and still say it's all gravy baby. Winning is all that matters. But long term this better not turn into a real problem. You can't expect to win a Super Bowl or make a long playoff run with an unreliable kicker. The games will become a lot tougher and leaving points on the table is frustrating.

drs23
09-22-2013, 10:44 AM
Wasnt Bullock like 29 of 33 his senior year? They see him everyday in practice. It was ONE bad game. He has all the talent.

Most likely we cut him like you want and he goes and has a great career for somebody else.

Sounds like another Kubiak is stubborn thread.

Consider the source. This team, FO, coaching staff are all worthless and have always been and always will be. You've heard references of those that will whine and snivel if we win the SB. The OP is exhibit "A".

Only way we'll win another game is if we can sign Cap or Wilson. Oh and Tom Dempsey too. Pffft

cland
09-22-2013, 10:47 AM
The original question should have been "Why haven't the Texans told the fans they have a veteran kicker on speed dial?" If your trying to instill confidence in your rookie kicker there's a pretty obvious answer to that question.

If you don't think Rick Smith has an updated and ranked list of veteran FA kickers in his desk drawer then you have no faith in our GM.

mmwest
09-22-2013, 11:07 AM
I didn't feel like reading through 4 pages of this but let it be known , Randy Bullock is not going anywhere anytime soon.

thunderkyss
09-22-2013, 11:09 AM
I think the Texans should go back to last season's offensive philosophy and go for field goals instead of touchdowns so we can see just how reliable the kid can be. He's attempted four kicks in his NFL career only one was shorter than 50 yards.

The kid need some real game kicks to forge his psyche unto a thing of iron, so we need to turtle up, keep the game close & get Bullock in as many game winning situations as possible. Then if he misses one kick it will cost us a game & the people calling for a kicker competition after week two will be justified.

mattieuk
09-22-2013, 11:54 AM
First, bringing in another kicker during the week is SOP in the NFL. It's been done forever. And if the incumbent kicker can't handle that pressure with coaches watching, how will he handle it on Sundays with 70,000 watching?

I'm not saying it's time to cut Bullock loose. But, it's not too soon to bring in some competition if he has another shaky week. Because kicker is far and away the easiest position at which to make a midseason change.

It's not how they react during the practice, but it's how they play during the game, with the added pressure of knowing another guy is in the stands who the coach is looking at bringing in for your job. I just do not see trying out other kickers as a productive way to give Bullock the maximum chance of success with this team. The best way, is exactly what Kubiak has done - praised him in public - and tried to take as much pressure off him as possible.

I don't think I'm going to see eye to eye with many people here about changing the kicker, and that's fine. I do maintain however, that I would find it a far easier decision as coach to play Tate as starting running back for the week, rather than Foster - instead of the ramifications (i.e. player cuts etc) of changing a prospect kicker.

Texanmike02
09-22-2013, 12:00 PM
Who is out there that is better than Bullock? Let me rephrase that, who is out there that is better than bullock and can keep teams from having the chance to return the ball on kickoffs.

Yes he's missed some long ass kicks. He's also made the opponent go 80 yards instead of 50. So far this year, 11% (1 of 9) kickoffs have been returned. Last year? 70% (28 of 87).

Mike

Texecutioner
09-22-2013, 12:28 PM
Consider the source. This team, FO, coaching staff are all worthless and have always been and always will be. You've heard references of those that will whine and snivel if we win the SB. The OP is exhibit "A".

Only way we'll win another game is if we can sign Cap or Wilson. Oh and Tom Dempsey too. Pffft

You clearly are incapable of understanding the bigger picture. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand. Some of you can't put the homerish bias aside. I see this every season.

Texecutioner
09-22-2013, 12:38 PM
Who is out there that is better than Bullock? Let me rephrase that, who is out there that is better than bullock and can keep teams from having the chance to return the ball on kickoffs.

Yes he's missed some long ass kicks. He's also made the opponent go 80 yards instead of 50. So far this year, 11% (1 of 9) kickoffs have been returned. Last year? 70% (28 of 87).

Mike

So now being able to kick into the end zone is more important then kicking fgs to put points on the board? Lol! The justifications in this thread get sillier by the minute. Oh my god, how could we even think of trying out a new kicker for competition. What a crazy idea. This guy is going to be fine just because........

thunderkyss
09-22-2013, 12:47 PM
I think the Texans should go back to last season's offensive philosophy and go for field goals instead of touchdowns so we can see just how reliable the kid can be. He's attempted four kicks in his NFL career only one was shorter than 50 yards.

The kid need some real game kicks to forge his psyche unto a thing of iron, so we need to turtle up, keep the game close & get Bullock in as many game winning situations as possible. Then if he misses one kick it will cost us a game & the people calling for a kicker competition after week two will be justified.

That's what I'm talking about. To hell with touchdowns. Let's rehab our kicker.

thunderkyss
09-22-2013, 01:01 PM
That's what I'm talking about. More confidence for our kicker.

drs23
09-22-2013, 01:17 PM
You clearly are incapable of understanding the bigger picture. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand. Some of you can't put the homerish bias aside. I see this every season.

Don't talk down to me Tex. I'm clearly very capable of understanding way more than (not then) the big picture. I don't agree that your alleged "homerish bias" is at play at all here. Knee-jerk hatoraid is what I'm seeing from you.

I see this every season.

Several posters have already stated, more eloquently than I could that there's (to some at least) sound reasoning that he's not gotten the hook yet. I agree that so far he's had the most serious case of the yips that I've witnessed in 50 years of watching NFL football but I also agree with those that say IF he can overcome it we'll have a solid place kicker.

If he can't shake the pulls and pushes fairly quickly then I agree that we might need to look elsewhere. If that happens though don't come back pissin' and moanin' because Denver (or whatever team) snags him and he goes on to an illustrious career.

:homer:'s outta here...

Hervoyel
09-22-2013, 01:40 PM
After three weeks of watching Schaub I think the real question is "Why aren't we trying to find a QB?"

That's just how I get when Matt goes on one of his patented Pick-Six runs.

Texecutioner
09-22-2013, 02:08 PM
Don't talk down to me Tex. I'm clearly very capable of understanding way more than (not then) the big picture. I don't agree that your alleged "homerish bias" is at play at all here. Knee-jerk hatoraid is what I'm seeing from you.

I see this every season.

Several posters have already stated, more eloquently than I could that there's (to some at least) sound reasoning that he's not gotten the hook yet. I agree that so far he's had the most serious case of the yips that I've witnessed in 50 years of watching NFL football but I also agree with those that say IF he can overcome it we'll have a solid place kicker.

If he can't shake the pulls and pushes fairly quickly then I agree that we might need to look elsewhere. If that happens though don't come back pissin' and moanin' because Denver (or whatever team) snags him and he goes on to an illustrious career.

:homer:'s outta here...

When you enter a thread and make zero attempts at creating a rebuttal only to write this.

Consider the source. This team, FO, coaching staff are all worthless and have always been and always will be. You've heard references of those that will whine and snivel if we win the SB. The OP is exhibit "A".

Only way we'll win another game is if we can sign Cap or Wilson. Oh and Tom Dempsey too. Pffft

Well you don't get to tell me how to talk to you. You get what you give and all you gave was a contribution with bitter remarks and hurt feelings because of some unknown kicker that you're sensitive about for some reason. You don't have to agree and you can have all the confidence in the world in the guy, but when you also state

I agree that so far he's had the most serious case of the yips that I've witnessed in 50 years of watching NFL football


You really don't make a lot sense for getting all butt hurt about the idea of questioning why our coach wouldn't try out some other kickers in practice.

houstonspartan
09-22-2013, 03:24 PM
Don't talk down to me Tex. I'm clearly very capable of understanding way more than (not then) the big picture. I don't agree that your alleged "homerish bias" is at play at all here. Knee-jerk hatoraid is what I'm seeing from you.

I see this every season.

Several posters have already stated, more eloquently than I could that there's (to some at least) sound reasoning that he's not gotten the hook yet. I agree that so far he's had the most serious case of the yips that I've witnessed in 50 years of watching NFL football but I also agree with those that say IF he can overcome it we'll have a solid place kicker.

If he can't shake the pulls and pushes fairly quickly then I agree that we might need to look elsewhere. If that happens though don't come back pissin' and moanin' because Denver (or whatever team) snags him and he goes on to an illustrious career.

:homer:'s outta here...

Personally, I don't think Tex is a hater. I think he's been more reasonable and fair about the team than a lot of people. Some people, myself included, are fans, but are not above pointing out critical issues with the team. That doesn't make us haters; that makes us fans.

utahmark
09-22-2013, 04:10 PM
I think kicker is the least of our worries.

thunderkyss
09-22-2013, 04:36 PM
Personally, I don't think Tex is a hater. I think he's been more reasonable and fair about the team than a lot of people. Some people, myself included, are fans, but are not above pointing out critical issues with the team. That doesn't make us haters; that makes us fans.

Every team has it's warts, especially this early in the season. Focusing on ours just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm not saying ignore them, but understand that "our way" isn't the only way. You ask, "Why aren't we trying to find a kicker?" Understand that some people are going to see that as knee jerk after week 2 when we're 2-0

The kid was 1-1 week 1. Should we put him in the Texans ring of honor?

He was 1-4 in week 2..... so we need to bring in a kicker. Don't think a good ole fashion ass chewing would suffice? Or maybe the sick to his stomach feeling he's got is enough.

Bullock was 3-3 today & the only Texan to put points on our side of the score-board... so should we commission a statue?

Just because we don't agree with bringing in a kicker to compete with Bullock doesn't mean we're extremely pleased with his performance to date.

TexanBacker93
09-22-2013, 05:15 PM
Every team has it's warts, especially this early in the season. Focusing on ours just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm not saying ignore them, but understand that "our way" isn't the only way. You ask, "Why aren't we trying to find a kicker?" Understand that some people are going to see that as knee jerk after week 2 when we're 2-0

The kid was 1-1 week 1. Should we put him in the Texans ring of honor?

He was 1-4 in week 2..... so we need to bring in a kicker. Don't think a good ole fashion ass chewing would suffice? Or maybe the sick to his stomach feeling he's got is enough.

Bullock was 3-3 today & the only Texan to put points on our side of the score-board... so should we commission a statue?

Just because we don't agree with bringing in a kicker to compete with Bullock doesn't mean we're extremely pleased with his performance to date.

Wait! Are we allowed to be logical on Sundays after a loss?

Tailgate
09-22-2013, 05:21 PM
Every team has it's warts, especially this early in the season. Focusing on ours just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm not saying ignore them, but understand that "our way" isn't the only way. You ask, "Why aren't we trying to find a kicker?" Understand that some people are going to see that as knee jerk after week 2 when we're 2-0

The kid was 1-1 week 1. Should we put him in the Texans ring of honor?

He was 1-4 in week 2..... so we need to bring in a kicker. Don't think a good ole fashion ass chewing would suffice? Or maybe the sick to his stomach feeling he's got is enough.

Bullock was 3-3 today & the only Texan to put points on our side of the score-board... so should we commission a statue?

Just because we don't agree with bringing in a kicker to compete with Bullock doesn't mean we're extremely pleased with his performance to date.

Msr

ATXtexanfan
09-22-2013, 05:25 PM
You know what. A new kicker would have made a difference today

mattieuk
09-22-2013, 08:28 PM
You know what. A new kicker would have made a difference today

Haha. If only there were a kicker whose field goals were worth 7 instead of 3 points! :)

Despite the poor all round performance today, I'm sure we can all agree that Bullock looked infinitely better, and that it is good to see him getting a rhythm, on the back of the support that his coach gave him midweek, whilst he was working his ass off on the training field to try and get himself out of his slump, rather than having to split his time with the veteran kicker that was being called for to try and dislodge Bullock's spot. Good job to the whole kicking unit, and to the coaching staff.

Houston_Fanatic
09-22-2013, 09:00 PM
Still think looking for a kicker is a priority?

:kubepalm:

Lucky
09-22-2013, 09:01 PM
Despite the poor all round performance today, I'm sure we can all agree that Bullock looked infinitely better...
Yes, he has at least earned the description of "inconsistent". Which is an improvement upon "consistently bad".

Showtime100
09-22-2013, 09:10 PM
He made good on every opportunity. That's all he can do and all I can hope for.

I think this little piece of fish is fried for now, on to bigger fishes.

So how long is this Kubiak Klown gonna milk McNair for everything he's got anyway? :D

mattieuk
09-22-2013, 10:02 PM
Yes, he has at least earned the description of "inconsistent". Which is an improvement upon "consistently bad".

Yup - it should at least get him out of the newswires and off the front pages of the forums for a week. It must be noted though, he does however still have the joint worst record in the NFL this season, and a poor game will likely get the attention back on him.

That said, as 3 of his 4 misses this season have been 50+ yarders, I'm not as panicky about the situation as others here are.

GuerillaBlack
09-22-2013, 10:16 PM
Wasn't really worried about the two chip shots he had (only kinda worried) but the 47 yarder was the one where I held my breath. Hopefully it continues.

Seegara
10-06-2013, 05:31 PM
The Texans have such great talent, what's wrong? We are weak in 2 of the most critical places—quarterback and place kicker.
The QB situation has been discussed enough; the head coach is too stubborn to replace him.
The kicker is inaccurate. Even on the field goals and PAT's he has made, he has often been uncomfortably off center, even on short FG's. He is not going to be all right despite what the optimists are telling us, and the head coach is too stubborn to replace him.

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 05:36 PM
I don't know if it's a talent issue. I think the whole team needs refresher training on 3rd down conversions & why they're important.

hradhak
10-06-2013, 05:57 PM
Not sure how much the PK is really an issue. Yes he's 6/10. His missed FGs came from 50+ yards. After that he's been fine. I'm not willing to cut him for this yet. If he starts missing 30 yard kicks especially in critical situations then we need to reassess.

Playoffs
10-06-2013, 06:05 PM
If our kicker could block we wouldn't be in this mess. :hankpalm:

kingtexan
10-06-2013, 06:08 PM
I would trade our kicker for our QB ...

TexansBull
10-06-2013, 07:47 PM
Bump.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

nut
10-06-2013, 07:51 PM
we found our kicker. he's an aggy kubiak spent a 5th on. kubiak special order.

Hervoyel
10-06-2013, 07:59 PM
We aren't trying to find a kicker because our head coach has a huge problem admitting that he's wrong. Some see this and think they're looking at someone who is being "loyal" or "believing in his guy" but it's just pig-headedness at its worst.

He wouldn't admit that Richard Smith couldn't coordinate a Pop Warner defense. Then he wouldn't admit that Frank Bush couldn't either.

He won't send Joe Marciano packing no matter how many years our special teams suck or how many good returners we send to other teams.

He won't admit that Matt Schaub is in steep decline and that it's past time for the Texans to move on.

And now he won't just come clean and accept that Bullock may have the leg for the NFL but he doesn't have the consistency or the ability to cope with pressure to succeed in the NFL.

The Texans aren't trying to find a kicker for the same reason that they never try to fix any of the real problems that plague this team. Gary.

Texecutioner
10-06-2013, 08:05 PM
Bumpity Bump!!!

I guess this will just solve it self like the rest of you thought right!? :roast:

AMartin56
10-06-2013, 08:09 PM
Our kicker will just have to keep battling' I guess...

RTP2110
10-06-2013, 08:12 PM
From the 5 to the 45 on 2 plays

BigBull17
10-07-2013, 08:46 AM
So Kubiak is going to roll with this same guy who almost cost us the game last week? Clearly Kubiak is showing that he refuses to learn form previous mistakes in other seasons. He ignored all of the problems Brown was having that one year that cost the Texans games, and wouldn't work out other kickers then. Here we go again. This kicker being on our roster will end up causing us to lose a game or maybe two if we don't find someone else. This kid is green and has only proven that he can't be consistent thus far. We should have lost to the Titans last week, and wouldn't have even been in that position if it wasn't for all those missed kicks.

Well, its on me. I didn't put him in a better position. My call didn't help him out and I have to worry about Tate's fumble and our bad defense...

chicagotexan2
10-07-2013, 08:49 AM
when you have no problem playing a QB that gives away 6 points you probably aren't concerned with a player that gives away a mere 3.

cuppacoffee
10-07-2013, 09:19 AM
when you have no problem playing a QB that gives away 6 points you probably aren't concerned with a player that gives away a mere 3.


Yep

If we had a better kicker we would have scored six points yesterday.


:coffee:

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 12:42 AM
Wasnt Bullock like 29 of 33 his senior year? They see him everyday in practice. It was ONE bad game. He has all the talent.

Most likely we cut him like you want and he goes and has a great career for somebody else.

Sounds like another Kubiak is stubborn thread.

Yes, you can definitely put me in the blow it off camp right now. Not even on my radar of concern, because one game does not make an ENTIRE CAREER for me.

Duane Brown was horrible early in his career; he should have been cut.
Kareem Jackson should have been cut.
Mercilus should have been cut.
Kubiak is a stubborn biatch. :kitten:

You are talking about signing guys that will ensure a loss of 10 yards of field position per kickoff and will struggle to make 50 yard field goals. Realize that Bullock is striking the ball very well... He had the 51 yard on the first timeout... Eventually, missing the 46 yarder off the upright. Earlier in the game, he nailed that 50 yard kick- hitting it so pure that the draw didn't work back into the goal until 5 yards past when it smacked into the net. Literally, that 50 yard miss would have been good from 65 yards.

I am worried as well. But, assuming the worst case scenario is not the way to lead a football team. My guess is that if his struggles continue, they will find a roster spot for a second kicker... similar to what New Orleans did a few years ago with Hartley when he was young and inconsistent.

He won one game... almost cost us another. We don't have any extra roster spots. I don't think anyone wants to waste their time with a charade of a kicker competition.

Kickers get replaced all the time. It's not like they have to learn the play book. If we get to the point where they feel it's time to move on, we'll move on. Right now they feel like it's time to show their support for him, to nurture him.

I can imagine Bullock using that game as motivation for the rest of the season & using it to kick the game winning kick in the Super Bowl.

Why aren't we looking for a kicker? Because we don't need one ...

Two games does not a season make.

Kid will be fine.

Consider the source. This team, FO, coaching staff are all worthless and have always been and always will be. You've heard references of those that will whine and snivel if we win the SB. The OP is exhibit "A".

Only way we'll win another game is if we can sign Cap or Wilson. Oh and Tom Dempsey too. Pffft

Who is out there that is better than Bullock? Let me rephrase that, who is out there that is better than bullock and can keep teams from having the chance to return the ball on kickoffs.

Yes he's missed some long ass kicks. He's also made the opponent go 80 yards instead of 50. So far this year, 11% (1 of 9) kickoffs have been returned. Last year? 70% (28 of 87).

Mike

I really hope that all of you typical sunshiners are happy after this game. Yeah, this kicker really turned things around this season. He has only just blown two games now where he missed like 7 FG's between both losses. Just ignore the glaring problems and expect them to get better just because. Good god this reminds me of the 9-7 season where everyone kept talking about both Browns turning things around just because as well. Same fans defending the same failures.

Bulls on Parade
11-04-2013, 12:53 AM
3 Weeks Ago 09:19 AM

Yep

If we had a better kicker we would have scored six points yesterday.


:coffee:
And 9 points last night in a game we lost by 3. :toropalm:

midway
11-04-2013, 12:54 AM
I really hope that all of you typical sunshiners are happy after this game. Yeah, this kicker really turned things around this season. He has only just blown two games now where he missed like 7 FG's between both losses. Just ignore the glaring problems and expect them to get better just because. Good god this reminds me of the 9-7 season where everyone kept talking about both Browns turning things around just because as well. Same fans defending the same failures.

I think they've almost reached the end of their sunshine supply.

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 01:07 AM
I think they've almost reached the end of their sunshine supply.

No, they'll probably twist things around as usual and say that this is hind sight posting when the signs were there all along. I've sen it for years. Just like Kubiak doesn't want to ever admit that he's been wrong about his coddling issues of certain players, fans don't ever want to admit it when they've been wrong about the evaluation of their coach's decisions.

Problem is that we're in year 8 of this train wreck at this point.

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 05:15 AM
We could sign a guy off the street today & I guarantee you he'll miss a kick sometime in the future.

But since it's going to be difficult to find a guy who can shank 3 out of 4... I'm with you Tex. We tried the nice guy route, time for a little tough love. Best thing for Mr. Bullock right now would be to make him go get a real job.

MightyTExan
11-04-2013, 06:26 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKQo-5CCcAA55t7.jpg

TejasTom
11-04-2013, 06:36 AM
This guy (Bullock) was hand picked by Joe Marciano. He's untouchable!

Texecutioner
11-04-2013, 08:59 AM
Boy, a lot of the sunshiners sure are quiet in this thread now. When it first started though, a lot of people sure did feel pretty strongly that the coaching staff knew exactly what they were doing.

Same thing was said about Brown when we missed the playoffs that other season.

Marcus
11-04-2013, 09:34 AM
Boy, a lot of the sunshiners sure are quiet in this thread now. When it first started though, a lot of people sure did feel pretty strongly that the coaching staff knew exactly what they were doing.

Same thing was said about Brown when we missed the playoffs that other season.

Yeah, I'm ready to look another one now after that crap last night. He has clearly lost confidence.

But you just watch. There was after all, a reason why they drafted him. If they cut him, and he goes to another team, it'll 10 freaking years before he misses another kick, and it'll probably be the Colts who will pick him up. :brickwall:

cuppacoffee
11-04-2013, 09:52 AM
3 Weeks Ago 09:19 AM


And 9 points last night in a game we lost by 3. :toropalm:


Can't argue with the truth.

Hopefully we will tryout/sign a new kicker Tuesday.

:coffee:

Lord Bills
11-04-2013, 10:03 AM
Boy, a lot of the sunshiners sure are quiet in this thread now. When it first started though, a lot of people sure did feel pretty strongly that the coaching staff knew exactly what they were doing.

Same thing was said about Brown when we missed the playoffs that other season.

same thing was said about gary kubiak and matt schaub.

you can add kareem jackson, brooks reed, ed reed, and quite a few other names in it as well.

its an epidemic.

Dread-Head
11-04-2013, 11:15 AM
head coach is an Aggie...kicker is an Aggie. Maroon runs deeper than blood.

jaayteetx
11-04-2013, 11:25 AM
This worked once, WTH, please sign this guy and give him a chance! Bring kickalicious in the fold!

VTexan
11-04-2013, 11:30 AM
yeah sure why not

Dutchrudder
11-04-2013, 04:51 PM
What's the point? I know people are pissed, but wasting money by cutting Bullock and spending even more on someone else will do nothing to help the future Texans succeed. We are 2-6 and have no shot at the division or playoffs right now. What's the difference between losing with a kicker that is already paid for, and spending money to get a new guy? Honestly, we are better off losing with Bullock than winning with some street free agent. At least this way we improve our draft position and don't waste future capspace.

I say, keep the roster in tact for now, figure out what you have in younger guys like Keenum, Posey, Martin, Brooks, Bouye, Pleasant, etc and gear up for the draft and next year. Let the next regime cut the bad players, and pick their own guys going forward. The best thing our team can do for the future is keep capspace open, and getting another kicker won't help with that.

RagingBull
11-04-2013, 05:20 PM
What's the point? I know people are pissed, but wasting money by cutting Bullock and spending even more on someone else will do nothing to help the future Texans succeed. We are 2-6 and have no shot at the division or playoffs right now. What's the difference between losing with a kicker that is already paid for, and spending money to get a new guy? Honestly, we are better off losing with Bullock than winning with some street free agent. At least this way we improve our draft position and don't waste future capspace.

I say, keep the roster in tact for now, figure out what you have in younger guys like Keenum, Posey, Martin, Brooks, Bouye, Pleasant, etc and gear up for the draft and next year. Let the next regime cut the bad players, and pick their own guys going forward. The best thing our team can do for the future is keep capspace open, and getting another kicker won't help with that.

I don't think hiring a new guy at league minimum would affect cap space at all, as it is only the top 49 or so contracts that count towards the cap. The guys that want to hire Kickalicious and give him a tryout like they are doing with Keenum just want to hopefully try and find another pearl that would make next years shopping list 1 less.

amazing80
11-04-2013, 05:31 PM
I don't think hiring a new guy at league minimum would affect cap space at all, as it is only the top 49 or so contracts that count towards the cap. The guys that want to hire Kickalicious and give him a tryout like they are doing with Keenum just want to hopefully try and find another pearl that would make next years shopping list 1 less.

YUP

Shaft75
11-04-2013, 05:40 PM
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1173670_10200676408503126_87620727_n.jpg

Dutchrudder
11-04-2013, 06:00 PM
I don't think hiring a new guy at league minimum would affect cap space at all, as it is only the top 49 or so contracts that count towards the cap. The guys that want to hire Kickalicious and give him a tryout like they are doing with Keenum just want to hopefully try and find another pearl that would make next years shopping list 1 less.

That's not how the cap works. The team has a maximum of 53 players on it, and they count towards your cap space. IR players, dead money from cut players and your practice squad count too. A lot of the players' annual salaries are guaranteed for the year once the season starts, which is why cutting guys can cost more money. The team spent about 1.5 million when it cut Keo the first time, because his rookie contract had that guaranteed money on it. Bullock is going to be the same way, and then instead of just continuing to pay him his 500k or whatever it is, you'll be hiring another guy to spend another 250k on for the rest of the season. That money could otherwise be rolled over to next year and spent on a team that has a chance of winning something.

Also, hanging on to Bullock and cutting him next year gives the team the option of making him a June 1st cut, and spreading out the caphit if needed.

76Texan
11-04-2013, 06:40 PM
Bullock's signing bonus is a mere $178K, a quarter of which is already in the book. The dead money incurred by cutting him is only 3/4*178K; very little.

Half of his base salary of $390K is already in the book at the rookie minimum value; I doubt that the other half is guaranteed for skill since he's a rookie, not a vested veteran.
(It would be very ironic if his salary is guaranteed for skill, LOL.)

Signing another rookie shouldn't cost the Texans anymore than that little chunk of signing bonus yet to be recorded in the book.

Signing a veteran would cost more; how much depends on the number of years they've been in the league. For half a season, it should be only about $400-500K (instead of the $195K remaining on Bullock's contract value of $390K).

If the Texans are serious about winning, the money is not that big of a deal.

infantrycak
11-04-2013, 06:42 PM
Also, hanging on to Bullock and cutting him next year gives the team the option of making him a June 1st cut, and spreading out the caphit if needed.

Bullock's money is gone either way and so irrelevant. The only increased cost for Kickalicious for instance is half a minimum salary. $250k is guat. That is well worthwhile to evaluate a young player to come in and see if he can be the long term solution just like with Keenum and the other young players you mentioned.

thunderkyss
11-04-2013, 07:23 PM
How many June 1st cuts can we have? I thought you could only designate 2 before June 1.

76Texan
11-04-2013, 07:26 PM
How many June 1st cuts can we have? I thought you could only designate 2 before June 1.

Two.

And Schaub should be one of them.

RTP2110
11-04-2013, 07:47 PM
Kicker tryouts tomorrow....


http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/texans-look-to-old-faces-for-help-at-kicker/

PapaL
11-04-2013, 07:48 PM
Kicker tryouts tomorrow....


http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/texans-look-to-old-faces-for-help-at-kicker/

They all have warts but a change is needed. ANY change.

Dutchrudder
11-04-2013, 08:27 PM
Bullock's money is gone either way and so irrelevant. The only increased cost for Kickalicious for instance is half a minimum salary. $250k is guat. That is well worthwhile to evaluate a young player to come in and see if he can be the long term solution just like with Keenum and the other young players you mentioned.

Most contracts in the NFL will have the base salary for the year guaranteed if the player is on the team week 1 of that season and hadn't been cut previously. This doesn't apply to 3rd stringers and UDFAs though. A kicker you drafted in the 5th round that is expected to start likely has his salary guaranteed. So you're throwing away about 250k to sign someone else. These things do add up over time.

I find it hard to believe that there is a franchise kicker just waiting out there for someone to give him a chance. If the dude was that good, he would probably have had a chance to get a job by now. But sure, why not give him a chance. It's not like we need cap space with Rick at the helm of the ship.

infantrycak
11-04-2013, 08:42 PM
Most contracts in the NFL will have the base salary for the year guaranteed if the player is on the team week 1 of that season and hadn't been cut previously. This doesn't apply to 3rd stringers and UDFAs though. A kicker you drafted in the 5th round that is expected to start likely has his salary guaranteed. So you're throwing away about 250k to sign someone else. These things do add up over time.

The week 1 guarantee is a league rule for vets, I believe with 4 years. Spotrac and Rotoworld have no mention of any guaranteed money other than his signing bonus.

steelbtexan
11-04-2013, 08:46 PM
That's not how the cap works. The team has a maximum of 53 players on it, and they count towards your cap space. IR players, dead money from cut players and your practice squad count too. A lot of the players' annual salaries are guaranteed for the year once the season starts, which is why cutting guys can cost more money. The team spent about 1.5 million when it cut Keo the first time, because his rookie contract had that guaranteed money on it. Bullock is going to be the same way, and then instead of just continuing to pay him his 500k or whatever it is, you'll be hiring another guy to spend another 250k on for the rest of the season. That money could otherwise be rolled over to next year and spent on a team that has a chance of winning something.

Also, hanging on to Bullock and cutting him next year gives the team the option of making him a June 1st cut, and spreading out the caphit if needed.

While I understand what you're saying, I just cant stand the thought of having to watch fat Randy blowing games for the rest of the season.

Honoring Earl 34
11-04-2013, 08:50 PM
While I understand what you're saying, I just cant stand the thought of having to watch fat Randy blowing games for the rest of the season.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/texans-look-to-old-faces-for-help-at-kicker/?cmpid=hpbn

Neil Rackers, Shayne Graham and Justin Medlock are coming to Methodist Training Center to kick for the Texans during this tryout. It doesn’t mean Bullock will lost his job, but it does mean he’s being put on notice for his inconsistent performance.

Seegara
11-04-2013, 09:01 PM
Unless we're running for King of all Fools, we have to be looking for a kicker now that it's too late. Didn't I tell them long ago to replace that loser before it cost a game?

burro
11-04-2013, 09:22 PM
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/11/texans-look-to-old-faces-for-help-at-kicker/?cmpid=hpbn

Neil Rackers, Shayne Graham and Justin Medlock are coming to Methodist Training Center to kick for the Texans during this tryout. It doesn’t mean Bullock will lost his job, but it does mean he’s being put on notice for his inconsistent performance.

Lets bring back Rackers and let him double as a LB. Dude could put the hammer down when he played here. He couldn't be much worse than Brooks Reed in pass coverage.

:wadepalm:

BeerTastesLikeVictory
11-04-2013, 09:52 PM
Rackers, Graham....I get it. Save a few coins, probably still some Jerseys with their name on it laying around the facility.

Big Lou
11-04-2013, 09:59 PM
Rackers, Graham....I get it. Save a few coins, probably still some Jerseys with their name on it laying around the facility.

Maybe just iron a swoosh over the Reebok logo, LOL!

TejasTom
11-04-2013, 10:09 PM
...have to be looking for a kicker now that it's too late...

We used to call this closing the barn door after the horse got out.

Hervoyel
11-04-2013, 10:10 PM
Most contracts in the NFL will have the base salary for the year guaranteed if the player is on the team week 1 of that season and hadn't been cut previously. This doesn't apply to 3rd stringers and UDFAs though. A kicker you drafted in the 5th round that is expected to start likely has his salary guaranteed. So you're throwing away about 250k to sign someone else. These things do add up over time.

I find it hard to believe that there is a franchise kicker just waiting out there for someone to give him a chance. If the dude was that good, he would probably have had a chance to get a job by now. But sure, why not give him a chance. It's not like we need cap space with Rick at the helm of the ship.

I doubt there is. I don't however doubt that there is a kicker who is more reliable than Randy Bullock waiting out there for someone to give him a chance. That seems almost a certainty to me at this point.

The guy has missed 8 FG's in half a season. I think you would have to be trying not to find another guy who can do better than that.

Lambert
11-05-2013, 01:37 AM
Lets bring back Rackers and let him double as a LB. Dude could put the hammer down when he played here. He couldn't be much worse than Brooks Reed in pass coverage.

:wadepalm:

"Burro", very appropiate moniker.

HouTx11
11-05-2013, 04:12 AM
Well this is really as good of a time as any to look for a kicker. If the Texans find an accurate one, it will give them a much better chance to go 7-9 for the season. (It will take more than a new kicker to win the games against the Patriots, Broncos and @Colts)

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 09:52 AM
While I understand what you're saying, I just cant stand the thought of having to watch fat Randy blowing games for the rest of the season.

I agree completely. The mentality of playing for better draft position (i.e. sucking on purpose) is so lame that it disgusts me. Who gives a crap about a May draft in freakin' November, even if the team is playing way below average.

You don't send a message to guys like JJ Watt and Andre Johnson that we are sticking with status quo to save a few bucks and hope for next season. That's the mentality of perpetually crap teams like the Jaguars.

Hervoyel
11-05-2013, 10:04 AM
I agree completely. The mentality of playing for better draft position (i.e. sucking on purpose) is so lame that it disgusts me. Who gives a crap about a May draft in freakin' November, even if the team is playing way below average.

You don't send a message to guys like JJ Watt and Andre Johnson that we are sticking with status quo to save a few bucks and hope for next season. That's the mentality of perpetually crap teams like the Jaguars.

Yeah, it's so very hard to do and even when in the back of your mind you know that there's more to be gained by your team losing a game it's still tough to not want them to win.

In 2005 it got bad enough for me to want them to "win" the first overall pick. I remember posting a comment about how I'd become perhaps the most loathed of all NFL fans. That season was nothing like this one. There was no silver lining. There was nothing positive about that team. It was so far down the rabbit hole that this year is a great success as-is compared to that one. If we go 2-14 this year and have production like we had Sunday night out of Keenum and AJ then we're still not the empty cupboard that was the 2005 Texans. We have great players on this team and more guys with bright futures than guys headed for the scrap heap I think.

I can't want these guys to lose. I just can't do it this time. 10-6 until it's become impossible. Then it's 9-7 all the way baby! I don't care about playoffs now. that's done. It's time to forge us some character. There are talented men on our team who have experienced some success. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. Maybe they need to be reminded just how much losing sucks.

Dutchrudder
11-05-2013, 10:12 AM
I agree completely. The mentality of playing for better draft position (i.e. sucking on purpose) is so lame that it disgusts me. Who gives a crap about a May draft in freakin' November, even if the team is playing way below average.

You don't send a message to guys like JJ Watt and Andre Johnson that we are sticking with status quo to save a few bucks and hope for next season. That's the mentality of perpetually crap teams like the Jaguars.

It worked for the Colts... :kitten:

I think it's more about having a plan in place and the right people to see it through. I want to see change from the top down next year, and I think the only way that happens is if it appears to McNair that we are no longer "on the right track." A 2-4 win season should send that message, a 6-8 win season will not as we have seen in the past.

So no, I'm not advocating that we simply tank for draft position, I am suggesting we tank for better coaching. Any idiot can see our kicker sucks and that he doesn't belong in the NFL. This should have been obvious to management after the second game of the season, buuuuut it wasn't for Smithiak. Now here we are in the midst of another dead-end season. So let's fix the real problem, which is not Randy Bullock or Ed Reed, it's management, and it has got to change. Keep Randy in the lineup, let him make 60% of his FGs, let Ed Reed give up 30 yards of penalties a game, let Newton pretend he's an NYC subway turnstile, and on their collective backs we will ride our way to new coaches that can take this talented team to new heights!

beerlover
11-05-2013, 10:15 AM
It worked for the Colts... :kitten:

I think it's more about having a plan in place and the right people to see it through. I want to see change from the top down next year, and I think the only way that happens is if it appears to McNair that we are no longer "on the right track." A 2-4 win season should send that message, a 6-8 win season will not as we have seen in the past.

So no, I'm not advocating that we simply tank for draft position, I am suggesting we tank for better coaching. Any idiot can see our kicker sucks and that he doesn't belong in the NFL. This should have been obvious to management after the second game of the season, buuuuut it wasn't for Smithiak. Now here we are in the midst of another dead-end season. So let's fix the real problem, which is not Randy Bullock or Ed Reed, it's management, and it has got to change. Keep Randy in the lineup, let him make 60% of his FGs, let Ed Reed give up 30 yards of penalties a game, let Newton pretend he's an NYC subway turnstile, and on their collective backs we will ride our way to new coaches that can take this talented team to new heights!

so Randy is actually helping Texans reach their goals by missing FG after FG? very interesting :smiliepalm:

Dutchrudder
11-05-2013, 10:28 AM
so Randy is actually helping Texans reach their goals by missing FG after FG? very interesting :smiliepalm:

Pretty much. Where exactly do you think this team is going this year? 8-8? Is that a successful season to you? Are people really ready to go back to the early years of Kubiak when we were so close to the playoffs, but just not quite good enough to make it? Cause that's what this team is right now, but I think it's pretty clear the coaching and talent evaluations are severely inadequate. When a 3rd string UDFA is playing head and shoulders above your 14 million dollar QB, something is seriously wrong. Can you imagine what this team would be like if we had put some resources into finding a QB years ago instead of plodding along with Schaub? It's pathetic we have been stuck with this for so long. It's time to cut the cord and clean house, get a fresh start with a new coach and GM.

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 10:36 AM
It worked for the Colts... :kitten:


You mean the same Colts that had an NFL Championship trophy in 2006, two Super Bowl appearances, and 9 straight playoff seasons from 2002-2010? The same team that fell apart when their Hall of Fame QB went down?

C'mon, man, that's a specious argument at best. :truck:

Regardless of what happens this season, McNair is not going to fire Kubiak. Especially now after the medical emergency.

People are constantly talking about the Texans meltdown going back to last season. So the logic is that last season's performance can directly impact the next season.

So let's reverse that logic: wouldn't it be best for the team to finish strong this season so there is positive momentum going into the off-season?

I think sending a message for the team to blatantly suck will send the wrong vibe into off-season. It's a defeatist attitude, and there is certainly no guarantees about draft picks.

And remember the "Suck for Luck" mentality was from fans, not the team.

"I've done this for 13 years," Saturday said, per Terry McCormick. "I'll steal a Robert Mathis quote, 'I ain't sucking for anybody.' That's the reality of it. Robert said it best. I'm out there every week trying to win games. I don't care about all the rest of it."

Source: Why 'Suck for Luck' Sucks (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hank-koebler/suck-for-luck_b_1077666.html)

TheIronDuke
11-05-2013, 10:36 AM
Pretty much. Where exactly do you think this team is going this year? 8-8? Is that a successful season to you? Are people really ready to go back to the early years of Kubiak when we were so close to the playoffs, but just not quite good enough to make it? Cause that's what this team is right now, but I think it's pretty clear the coaching and talent evaluations are severely inadequate. When a 3rd string UDFA is playing head and shoulders above your 14 million dollar QB, something is seriously wrong. Can you imagine what this team would be like if we had put some resources into finding a QB years ago instead of plodding along with Schaub? It's pathetic we have been stuck with this for so long. It's time to cut the cord and clean house, get a fresh start with a new coach and GM.

This post is exactly how I feel. Kudos to you sir.

Runner
11-05-2013, 10:45 AM
Pretty much. Where exactly do you think this team is going this year? 8-8? Is that a successful season to you? Are people really ready to go back to the early years of Kubiak when we were so close to the playoffs, but just not quite good enough to make it? Cause that's what this team is right now, but I think it's pretty clear the coaching and talent evaluations are severely inadequate. When a 3rd string UDFA is playing head and shoulders above your 14 million dollar QB, something is seriously wrong. Can you imagine what this team would be like if we had put some resources into finding a QB years ago instead of plodding along with Schaub? It's pathetic we have been stuck with this for so long. It's time to cut the cord and clean house, get a fresh start with a new coach and GM.

Make changes!!!??? If they change coaches they might have a bad season, be 2-6 halfway through or something. That risk is unacceptable.

:kitten:

beerlover
11-05-2013, 10:52 AM
Pretty much. Where exactly do you think this team is going this year? 8-8? Is that a successful season to you? Are people really ready to go back to the early years of Kubiak when we were so close to the playoffs, but just not quite good enough to make it? Cause that's what this team is right now, but I think it's pretty clear the coaching and talent evaluations are severely inadequate. When a 3rd string UDFA is playing head and shoulders above your 14 million dollar QB, something is seriously wrong. Can you imagine what this team would be like if we had put some resources into finding a QB years ago instead of plodding along with Schaub? It's pathetic we have been stuck with this for so long. It's time to cut the cord and clean house, get a fresh start with a new coach and GM.

I'm not disagreeing with you as much as I just don't see your "cutting the cord & cleaning house" actually transpiring. They did have the sense to keep around that 3rd string UDFA so some credit is due. The only turnover I see are the ones that killed this season on the field. Cutting Schaub would be revolutionary for this franchise IMO. The worst possible turn of events have killed this season hard for ownership to kill Rick Smith, now Gary Kubiak for all these circumstances still I agree with you that accountability must be the buzz word moving forward, wherever that leads remains to be seen :texflag:

CloakNNNdagger
11-05-2013, 10:58 AM
You mean the same Colts that had an NFL Championship trophy in 2006, two Super Bowl appearances, and 9 straight playoff seasons from 2002-2010? The same team that fell apart when their Hall of Fame QB went down?

C'mon, man, that's a specious argument at best. :truck:

Regardless of what happens this season, McNair is not going to fire Kubiak. Especially now after the medical emergency.

People are constantly talking about the Texans meltdown going back to last season. So the logic is that last season's performance can directly impact the next season.

So let's reverse that logic: wouldn't it be best for the team to finish strong this season so there is positive momentum going into the off-season?

I think sending a message for the team to blatantly suck will send the wrong vibe into off-season. It's a defeatist attitude, and there is certainly no guarantees about draft picks.

And remember the "Suck for Luck" mentality was from fans, not the team.

We've experienced this negative phenomenon the past 2 seasons. It would be nice to see that trend be broken the second half of this season..........and take this novel new found momentum into the next season.

Dutchrudder
11-05-2013, 11:01 AM
You mean the same Colts that had an NFL Championship trophy in 2006, two Super Bowl appearances, and 9 straight playoff seasons from 2002-2010? The same team that fell apart when their Hall of Fame QB went down?

C'mon, man, that's a specious argument at best. :truck:

What? Are you really going to argue that the Colts were NOT tanking that season? Seriously? They started Kerry Collins, Dan Orlovsky and some other guys I can't remember at QB all year. They clearly were not playing to win until the end of the season when they knew they had the #1 pick locked up. They cleaned house too that offseason, and released many of the players that made them a contender. They clearly were playing for the future and the fans were smart enough to see that. Now look where they are...

So you don't think this team would have a better chance of turning things around next year with a top 5 pick instead of a 10-15 pick? Do you think the Lions would be where they are now without Stafford? How about the Panthers with Cam Newton? Or the Giants without Eli? Or the Chargers without Rivers? I think it makes a big difference, there certainly are great QBs to be had at the top of the draft. Occasionally there are some gems found in later rounds, like Russell Wilson or Brady, but those are so few and far between that it's not likely we would be so lucky. We need the best picks we can get to give our next regime the tools needed for a makeover. If Keenum turns out to be the guy for the future, then we can go defense and get an OLB that can rush the QB. Whatever works, but the higher the pick, the better your chances of finding impact players.


Regardless of what happens this season, McNair is not going to fire Kubiak. Especially now after the medical emergency.

People are constantly talking about the Texans meltdown going back to last season. So the logic is that last season's performance can directly impact the next season.

So let's reverse that logic: wouldn't it be best for the team to finish strong this season so there is positive momentum going into the off-season?

I think sending a message for the team to blatantly suck will send the wrong vibe into off-season. It's a defeatist attitude, and there is certainly no guarantees about draft picks.

And remember the "Suck for Luck" mentality was from fans, not the team.

Honestly, this sounds like more of a defeatist attitude to me than what I am advocating. The thought of this regime staying intact after this atrocious season is worse than going 2-14 in my mind. It's time for change we can believe in, whether it be a new GM from Baltimore, or a HC like Sumlin, Shaw or Gruden, I don't really care. This team needs a makeover from the top down.

TheIronDuke
11-05-2013, 11:02 AM
The momentum going into next season probably won't matter since most of the starters from this season won't be here next season. We're going to be a whole new team next year player personnel-wise.

The Pencil Neck
11-05-2013, 11:33 AM
I think they've almost reached the end of their sunshine supply.

Oh, hell no.

The thing about being a sunshiner, which I am, is that you can always look on the bright side of things. The thing about being a hater is that it doesn't matter how good the team does, it always sucks. Some of the haters have admitted that we could win a Super Bowl but it wouldn't matter if it was THIS regime that did it. And if everything they wanted to happen happened, they'd still find something to whine about.

That's a sad way to go through life.

Should Bullock be gone? Yep. Should Marciano be gone? Yep. Does going on a 6 game losing streak suck? Yep.

But I still think this is a good team with a lot of good pieces in place and I haven't given up on this season (or this regime), yet. We might not make the play-offs, we've dug ourselves a hole that only 1 team since 1960 has been able to overcome. But we can still be competitive and we can still play hard and things might break our way.

I think we've hit a jackpot with Keenum. This year might not take us to the promised land but it might be just what we need to get there next year and/or the year after.

OTOH, if we fire all of our coaches and bring in a new staff, I'll get behind this new staff (even if I hate the coaches) and I'll hope for the best.

That's what being a sunshiner is about: keeping a positive mental attitude. Where a hater sees 8 years without a successful season (where success can only be a SB), a sunshiner sees several successful seasons with lots of bright spots and things to look forward to.

Sigma
11-05-2013, 11:36 AM
Source (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000277028/article/randy-bullocks-struggles-has-texans-eyeing-kickers)

I hope we don't spend too much money on it to be honest.

Dread-Head
11-05-2013, 11:41 AM
:dread: Thank you Iesvs!:dread::TexanBillAtNight:

infantrycak
11-05-2013, 11:49 AM
The momentum going into next season probably won't matter since most of the starters from this season won't be here next season. We're going to be a whole new team next year player personnel-wise.

You are projecting your hopes onto the future and are very unlikely to be correct.

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 11:54 AM
What? Are you really going to argue that the Colts were NOT tanking that season? Seriously? They started Kerry Collins, Dan Orlovsky and some other guys I can't remember at QB all year.

Are you seriously trying to say that a 53 man roster of professional athletes collaborated on losing games?

Seriously?

They lost their HoF QB for the season. That's why they had no viable back up. Manning was on pace to challenge Favre's consecutive start streak. They never needed a back up QB.

This for an offensive system that Manning basically played OC on the field.

You expect some journeyman back up QB to take his place??

You are delusional if you think the players tanked on purpose. Show me any shred of evidence that confirms such an unrealistic take. It is illogical.

BTW, the hole in your little scenario is the win over the Texans. That put their chance at a no. 1 pick in jeopardy.

History undermines your fantasy world:

Colts flirt with blowing the Luck pick

Though it would be fitting for a kid named “Luck” to play for a team with a horseshoe on its helmet, the Colts are experiencing an unlikely late-season surge that could cost the team that had presumably locked up the first overall pick a clear shot at their franchise quarterback of the future.

Thanks to an unlikely come-from-behind win over the Texans, the Colts have moved to 2-13 on the season. If the Vikings lose to the Redskins and/or the Rams lose to the Steelers on Saturday, Week 17 would feature not only the resolution of multiple playoff spots and positioning, but also the final resolution of the “Suck for Luck” sweepstakes.

source (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/22/colts-flirting-with-blowing-the-luck-pick/)

So you don't think this team would have a better chance of turning things around next year with a top 5 pick instead of a 10-15 pick?

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I'm not sure when or where I said it, but since you typed it I must have said it. :rolleyes:

C'mon, man, you just trolling me for a response? When did you start using straw man tactics to make a point?

Honestly, this sounds like more of a defeatist attitude to me than what I am advocating.

Wanting our team to win as many games as they can is more defeatist than hoping they lose out?

We have such fundamentally different perspectives that this conversation is basically pointless.

The thought of this regime staying intact after this atrocious season is worse than going 2-14 in my mind. It's time for change we can believe in, whether it be a new GM from Baltimore, or a HC like Sumlin, Shaw or Gruden, I don't really care. This team needs a makeover from the top down.

Then you had better pick a new team to follow. Do you honestly think McNair is going to clean house now?

I'd like an overhaul, as well, and agree with your ultimate desire. But, I'm pragmatic enough to understand that I'm powerless to influence it and our owner is going to do what he wants to do.

Hervoyel
11-05-2013, 12:05 PM
Pretty much. Where exactly do you think this team is going this year? 8-8? Is that a successful season to you? Are people really ready to go back to the early years of Kubiak when we were so close to the playoffs, but just not quite good enough to make it? Cause that's what this team is right now, but I think it's pretty clear the coaching and talent evaluations are severely inadequate. When a 3rd string UDFA is playing head and shoulders above your 14 million dollar QB, something is seriously wrong. Can you imagine what this team would be like if we had put some resources into finding a QB years ago instead of plodding along with Schaub? It's pathetic we have been stuck with this for so long. It's time to cut the cord and clean house, get a fresh start with a new coach and GM.

So you're saying that an 8-8 finish at this point would be a failure to you? That would make the Texans 6-4 after benching Schaub and by my estimation 6-2 after sending Bullock to the house (I know, it's not a done deal yet but I'd take Racker or Graham over Bullock every damn time)

After this start I'd be impressed with that and thinking that the mid-round picks we'd end up with could help solve the remaining issues (along with a certain special teams coach retiring "with honor" after the season ends).

TheIronDuke
11-05-2013, 12:38 PM
You are projecting your hopes onto the future and are very unlikely to be correct.

So you think the following are going to be on the team as starters next season?

Smith
Newton
Daniels
Schaub
Jones

Smith
Mitchell
Mays
Joseph
Jackson
Manning
Reed

Bullock

That's 5 offensive starters and 7 defensive starters and a fat worthless PK. Which of these are you so confident are going to be here next season as starters? I'd guess none of those offensive players and maybe 5/7 defensive will be back. Is that not a huge turnover? Almost half the starters? No? Yeah.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-05-2013, 12:43 PM
When teams "tank" it isn't the players that are doing the tanking. It is management putting their team in the best position to lose. Happens all the time.

Dutchrudder
11-05-2013, 12:58 PM
Are you seriously trying to say that a 53 man roster of professional athletes collaborated on losing games?

Seriously?

They lost their HoF QB for the season. That's why they had no viable back up. Manning was on pace to challenge Favre's consecutive start streak. They never needed a back up QB.

This for an offensive system that Manning basically played OC on the field.

You expect some journeyman back up QB to take his place??

You are delusional if you think the players tanked on purpose. Show me any shred of evidence that confirms such an unrealistic take. It is illogical.

BTW, the hole in your little scenario is the win over the Texans. That put their chance at a no. 1 pick in jeopardy.

History undermines your fantasy world:

You should probably read the next paragraph, they were still in the driver's seat for the #1 pick, even with that win.

If the Colts lose to the Jaguars in Jacksonville on January 1, they’ll clinch the pick via the strength of schedule tiebreaker, which is the first measure used to determine draft position among non-playoff teams. But if the Colts continue their hot streak and beat the mediocre-at-best Jaguars, either the Rams or the Vikings would slide into the top position position, if either or both lose in Week 17.

Guess what happened in Jacksonville? I think it's pretty obvious they weren't really trying to win that year, given the roster and personnel. You can call it whatever you want, but I saw a team that was tanking that year. No I don't have a quote from a GM that said that was their plan, but that's what I believe they were doing.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I'm not sure when or where I said it, but since you typed it I must have said it. :rolleyes:

C'mon, man, you just trolling me for a response? When did you start using straw man tactics to make a point?

Why is this so difficult to follow? More wins = worse draft position. That's what happens when we win at this point, because this team isn't making the playoffs, and we will end up with about the 10-15th pick if we beat Jax twice, the Raiders and one more against whoever. It's pointless. The season is over and we are back where we were when Kubiak took over this franchise 7 years ago. A decent team with some good pieces that's going nowhere fast.

Wanting our team to win as many games as they can is more defeatist than hoping they lose out?

We have such fundamentally different perspectives that this conversation is basically pointless.

Probably. This team isn't going anywhere with current management. I'm ready for the full nuclear option to get things going in the right direction. Burn it to the ground and rebuild.

Then you had better pick a new team to follow. Do you honestly think McNair is going to clean house now?

Yes sir, if fans like you don't support this team in its current state and clamor for change.

I'd like an overhaul, as well, and agree with your ultimate desire. But, I'm pragmatic enough to understand that I'm powerless to influence it and our owner is going to do what he wants to do.

Lol... thanks Captain Obvious.

Dutchrudder
11-05-2013, 01:07 PM
So you're saying that an 8-8 finish at this point would be a failure to you? That would make the Texans 6-4 after benching Schaub and by my estimation 6-2 after sending Bullock to the house (I know, it's not a done deal yet but I'd take Racker or Graham over Bullock every damn time)

After this start I'd be impressed with that and thinking that the mid-round picks we'd end up with could help solve the remaining issues (along with a certain special teams coach retiring "with honor" after the season ends).

I think an 8-8 finish means that we have very little change next year, and we will have the same GM, HC and possibly special teams coach next year. That to me is where the team "loses." The W/L columns don't matter to me at this point, because I have written off the season. If you don't want another year of Gary and company, then losing is the best remedy IMO. I'm looking at the big picture of this franchise, and not the short-term feel-good moral victories we will get from the Texans beating up the Jaguars and company.

YeaLikeRightNow
11-05-2013, 01:16 PM
I think an 8-8 finish means that we have very little change next year, and we will have the same GM, HC and possibly special teams coach next year. That to me is where the team "loses." The W/L columns don't matter to me at this point, because I have written off the season. If you don't want another year of Gary and company, then losing is the best remedy IMO. I'm looking at the big picture of this franchise, and not the short-term feel-good moral victories we will get from the Texans beating up the Jaguars and company.


I'm still trying to figure out what the owner meant when he said "Super Bowl or Bust"...:kitten:

Runner
11-05-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what the owner meant when he said "Super Bowl or Bust"...:kitten:

That means, "Renew your season tickets! Buy a jersey!"

I'm curious - what did you think it meant?
:)

EVOLVIST
11-05-2013, 02:03 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/EVOLVIST/386323aa-bf83-4b17-b1bd-acc7eb39c6e5_zps211456cc.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/EVOLVIST/media/386323aa-bf83-4b17-b1bd-acc7eb39c6e5_zps211456cc.jpg.html)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/EVOLVIST/Nope4_zps89109cf1.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/EVOLVIST/media/Nope4_zps89109cf1.jpg.html)

ChampionTexan
11-05-2013, 02:14 PM
You should probably read the next paragraph, they were still in the driver's seat for the #1 pick, even with that win.



Guess what happened in Jacksonville? I think it's pretty obvious they weren't really trying to win that year, given the roster and personnel. You can call it whatever you want, but I saw a team that was tanking that year. No I don't have a quote from a GM that said that was their plan, but that's what I believe they were doing.



Why is this so difficult to follow? More wins = worse draft position. That's what happens when we win at this point, because this team isn't making the playoffs, and we will end up with about the 10-15th pick if we beat Jax twice, the Raiders and one more against whoever. It's pointless. The season is over and we are back where we were when Kubiak took over this franchise 7 years ago. A decent team with some good pieces that's going nowhere fast.



Probably. This team isn't going anywhere with current management. I'm ready for the full nuclear option to get things going in the right direction. Burn it to the ground and rebuild.



Yes sir, if fans like you don't support this team in its current state and clamor for change.



Lol... thanks Captain Obvious.

So who made the decision, and how did they go about implementing their nefarious little scheme to throw the entire season?

Surreal McCoy
11-05-2013, 03:13 PM
Oh, hell no.

The thing about being a sunshiner, which I am, is that you can always look on the bright side of things. The thing about being a hater is that it doesn't matter how good the team does, it always sucks. Some of the haters have admitted that we could win a Super Bowl but it wouldn't matter if it was THIS regime that did it. And if everything they wanted to happen happened, they'd still find something to whine about.

That's a sad way to go through life.

Should Bullock be gone? Yep. Should Marciano be gone? Yep. Does going on a 6 game losing streak suck? Yep.

But I still think this is a good team with a lot of good pieces in place and I haven't given up on this season (or this regime), yet. We might not make the play-offs, we've dug ourselves a hole that only 1 team since 1960 has been able to overcome. But we can still be competitive and we can still play hard and things might break our way.

I think we've hit a jackpot with Keenum. This year might not take us to the promised land but it might be just what we need to get there next year and/or the year after.

OTOH, if we fire all of our coaches and bring in a new staff, I'll get behind this new staff (even if I hate the coaches) and I'll hope for the best.

That's what being a sunshiner is about: keeping a positive mental attitude. Where a hater sees 8 years without a successful season (where success can only be a SB), a sunshiner sees several successful seasons with lots of bright spots and things to look forward to.

So much truth in this entire post. But hey, I'm sure some 'realist' (lol) will be along shortly to explain the folly of your ways...:mariopalm:

Double Barrel
11-05-2013, 03:20 PM
You should probably read the next paragraph, they were still in the driver's seat for the #1 pick, even with that win.


I read the whole article.

My point was that beating the Texans undermines your entire conspiracy theory. Why would they try to win at all?

And you did not answer the question: Do you honestly believe there was a conspiracy in the lockerroom and front office to tank the season for a draft pick?

Guess what happened in Jacksonville? I think it's pretty obvious they weren't really trying to win that year, given the roster and personnel. You can call it whatever you want, but I saw a team that was tanking that year. No I don't have a quote from a GM that said that was their plan, but that's what I believe they were doing.

What was obvious is that the entire team was built around a HoF QB and they were unable to compensate for it when he was gone.

People believe all kinds of fantasies so your's is no different in that regard.

Why is this so difficult to follow? More wins = worse draft position. That's what happens when we win at this point, because this team isn't making the playoffs, and we will end up with about the 10-15th pick if we beat Jax twice, the Raiders and one more against whoever. It's pointless. The season is over and we are back where we were when Kubiak took over this franchise 7 years ago. A decent team with some good pieces that's going nowhere fast.

We are in a much better place now than we were at the end of the 2005 season.

2-14 was not a decent team with some good pieces. That was a horrible team that had no fight in it. They never had a lead in the first 6 games of that season.

As far as draft position, no ****. I guess I don't have the market cornered on Captain Obvious statements. But you act like draft picks are a sure thing, when this franchise has been spotty, at best.

Probably. This team isn't going anywhere with current management. I'm ready for the full nuclear option to get things going in the right direction. Burn it to the ground and rebuild.

And this current management is probably not going anywhere with current owner.

You can be ready all you want, but McNair is the one that has to be ready for it. According to his own words, it's a traumatic experience to change head coaches. Nothing McNair has said this season indicates any sort of finger on the button to nuke this FO.


Yes sir, if fans like you don't support this team in its current state and clamor for change.

I support the team by watching them play. I have no financial investment at this point in time. I doubt my lack of viewing changes a thing, but maybe I'm a lot more important than I realize...in fantasy world.

Lol... thanks Captain Obvious.

You're welcome. So obvious that you need to be reminded of it.

Surreal McCoy
11-05-2013, 06:35 PM
I support the team by watching them play. I have no financial investment at this point in time. I doubt my lack of viewing changes a thing, but maybe I'm a lot more important than I realize...in fantasy world.


Oh dear! That's gonna leave a mark :spin:

Speedy
11-05-2013, 07:42 PM
But you act like draft picks are a sure thing, when this franchise has been spotty, at best.

And not just this franchise. Draft picks ARE spotty at best for EVERYONE. Let's tank so we get to draft Russell Wilson, yeah, that should work out. Super Bowls to come for years and years.

And that of course is just one example. You can go on and on damn near indefinitely with this little game. Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf? Colts got lucky and got it right. Charles Rogers or Andre Johnson - the Lions not so lucky.

Draft picks are a roll of the dice no matter what position you are in. Wanting to lose to get a higher draft pick, that's just dumb. I don't even know why you'd follow sports with thinking like that.

You think the Jaguars aren't going to come in here and put up a fight against the Texans in 3 weeks? Jeopardize their #1 pick? I mean, they're only 2 games behind the Texans with 2 games to play against them so it could happen. They are going to come in here and play to win. This tanking business is BS. You don't put your body at risk in NFL games to lose on purpose.

Texan_Bill
11-05-2013, 07:54 PM
And not just this franchise. Draft picks ARE spotty at best for EVERYONE. Let's tank so we get to draft Russell Wilson, yeah, that should work out. Super Bowls to come for years and years.

And that of course is just one example. You can go on and on damn near indefinitely with this little game. Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf? Colts got lucky and got it right. Charles Rogers or Andre Johnson - the Lions not so lucky.

Draft picks are a roll of the dice no matter what position you are in. Wanting to lose to get a higher draft pick, that's just dumb. I don't even know why you'd follow sports with thinking like that.

You think the Jaguars aren't going to come in here and put up a fight against the Texans in 3 weeks? Jeopardize their #1 pick? I mean, they're only 2 games behind the Texans with 2 games to play against them so it could happen. They are going to come in here and play to win. This tanking business is BS. You don't put your body at risk in NFL games to lose on purpose.

Thank YOU!!!

Texan_Bill
11-05-2013, 07:55 PM
And not just this franchise. Draft picks ARE spotty at best for EVERYONE. Let's tank so we get to draft Russell Wilson, yeah, that should work out. Super Bowls to come for years and years.

And that of course is just one example. You can go on and on damn near indefinitely with this little game. Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf? Colts got lucky and got it right. Charles Rogers or Andre Johnson - the Lions not so lucky.

Draft picks are a roll of the dice no matter what position you are in. Wanting to lose to get a higher draft pick, that's just dumb. I don't even know why you'd follow sports with thinking like that.

You think the Jaguars aren't going to come in here and put up a fight against the Texans in 3 weeks? Jeopardize their #1 pick? I mean, they're only 2 games behind the Texans with 2 games to play against them so it could happen. They are going to come in here and play to win. This tanking business is BS. You don't put your body at risk in NFL games to lose on purpose.

Thank YOU!!!

That said and I've said it before, draft picks are a craps shoot at best.

*EDIT*

Sorry about the double post. 'Puter is hanging up a bit.

DocBar
11-05-2013, 08:10 PM
Thank YOU!!!

That said and I've said it before, draft picks are a craps shoot at best.

*EDIT*

Sorry about the double post. 'Puter is hanging up a bit.Just be prepared to move on from the busts. Bullock appears to be one of the least costly, unless you count wins.....

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-05-2013, 08:27 PM
Tanking does happen. Just not by the players, but by the people up top. They do everything within their power to put their team in a position to lose. How do you think the Spurs got Tim Duncan? You'd be naive to think teams don't tank. Hell, just recently an NBA GM admitted his team was tanking this season. That's the price you pay for a better chance of landing a superstar.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn8lpJ-QB64

htowntexans1985
11-05-2013, 08:46 PM
Looks like we are sticking with Pillsbury.

The Houston Texans worked out three
kickers today bringing in veterans Neil
Rackers, Shayne Graham and Justin Medlock
to see if they would replace struggling
Texans kicker Randy Bullock. According to
Rackers, the Texans are passing on signing
and of the veterans and sticking with
Bullock.

Hervoyel
11-05-2013, 09:15 PM
Looks like we are sticking with Pillsbury.


That sucks. Basically this was all some kind of motivational tactic to get Randy Bullock's "groove" back by threatening him with other kickers who the Texans obviously had no intention of signing.

Typical. Texans. Bull****.

He should have been released Monday morning. Graham is a fine kicker and perfectly adequate for our needs. There's no reason outside of morbid curiosity (Will he really miss 16 ****ing kicks in one year? I gotta know!) to keep Bullock but we're gonna do it anyway.

TheIronDuke
11-05-2013, 09:16 PM
Now that the season is over and no pressure I'm sure fat Randy will start making FGs and the FO will stick with him through next season when the shanks will pop up again and cost us games in 2014, probably with Marciano running the ST. Cant go making changes round these parts, stay the course.

htowntexans1985
11-05-2013, 09:28 PM
Now that the season is over and no pressure I'm sure fat Randy will start making FGs and the FO will stick with him through next season when the shanks will pop up again and cost us games in 2014, probably with Marciano running the ST. Cant go making changes round these parts, stay the course.

Yes, stay the course. All the way to the bottom of the barrell. It's amazing how an organization can stick besides their mistakes for so long. I'm absolutely dumbfounded this shankapotamus still has a job. He and marciano have got go.

infantrycak
11-06-2013, 12:02 AM
This tanking business is BS. You don't put your body at risk in NFL games to lose on purpose.

Vinny has made an excellent point on this several times. You aren't going to get the players to tank. Their body of work and resume is film. They are staring at losing millions of dollars or being out of the league for putting in a half assed performance.

Sigma
11-06-2013, 03:06 AM
This tanking business is BS.
You don't put your body at risk in NFL games to lose on purpose.
Thank YOU!!!

That's why foster is taking a bye season :)


(I'm joking :P )

Scooter
11-06-2013, 03:11 AM
so Randy is actually helping Texans reach their goals by missing FG after FG? very interesting :smiliepalm:

well, it worked when kris brown helped us to "win" the reggie bush sweepstakes ...

Sigma
11-06-2013, 05:01 AM
I tried opening a post but it was closed (merged with this one but it's the same thing)

We are trying out 3 kickers

Shayne Graham, Neil Rackers and Justin Medlock.

should we consider it?

I remember rackers being praised as one of the best a couple of years ago, he had a nice record... can't remember what it was... maybe longest streak of FG "from 45 yards or less".

the only thing I remember of shayne is that 55 yarder in the playoff, but I don't know how good he is now

Justin Medlock, I never even heard of this guy... so idk if he's good at all

wikipedia sure doesn't help his cause


CFL-CFL-CFL-CFL from '09 to '11 (don't really care :) )
Carolina Panthers
Medlock signed a 3-year contract with the Panthers on March 7, 2012.
On November 20, 2012, after missing field goals in 3 straight games, Medlock was waived.
Oakland Raiders
On August 27, 2013, he was signed by the Raiders. On August 31, 2013, he was waived.

Mr. White
11-06-2013, 07:20 AM
That sucks. Basically this was all some kind of motivational tactic to get Randy Bullock's "groove" back by threatening him with other kickers who the Texans obviously had no intention of signing.

Typical. Texans. Bull****.

He should have been released Monday morning. Graham is a fine kicker and perfectly adequate for our needs. There's no reason outside of morbid curiosity (Will he really miss 16 ****ing kicks in one year? I gotta know!) to keep Bullock but we're gonna do it anyway.

There wasn't any chance that they would cut Gary's guy with so much unknown about Gary's health. This was strictly about sending a message to Bullock.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see one of these guys come back after Bullock blows it again on Sunday. I'm pulling for Rackers.

Runner
11-06-2013, 07:46 AM
That sucks. Basically this was all some kind of motivational tactic to get Randy Bullock's "groove" back by threatening him with other kickers who the Texans obviously had no intention of signing.

Typical. Texans. Bull****.

He should have been released Monday morning. Graham is a fine kicker and perfectly adequate for our needs. There's no reason outside of morbid curiosity (Will he really miss 16 ****ing kicks in one year? I gotta know!) to keep Bullock but we're gonna do it anyway.

IIRC, when Kris Brown was having his problems Kubiak flat out stated they'd evaluate kickers after the season was over. It looks like that might be the end result here, although even looking at other kickers this week was a small step forward.

YeaLikeRightNow
11-06-2013, 08:26 AM
IIRC, when Kris Brown was having his problems Kubiak flat out stated they'd evaluate kickers after the season was over. It looks like that might be the end result here, although even looking at other kickers this week was a small step forward.

Nailed it!


I'd just like to know what a John Madden, Chuck Knoll or Bill Cowher would do in this situation.

But, knowing how many players really need a review after this season does make sense. It's too late to "make an example" out of Bullock for poor play. There's just been so many injuries and poor play this season to get an accurate account of what is really wrong with this team.

Add the fact that the HC is just out of the hospital, maybe it does make some sense to put things in neutral for the time being?

Hervoyel
11-06-2013, 10:36 AM
I don't agree with that. I think bringing in Graham and moving on from the Randy Bullock "experience" would do wonders for this teams chemistry. Look what sitting Schaub down did. In both games that Keenum started the rest of the team responded. One was a one-point loss to an undefeated team arguably due to a massive injury wave to our running backs while the other was maybe the best 3 quarters of football we've played all year that was IMO only screwed by Randy Bullock not making FG's.

Get him out of there and put someone merely competent in his place and this team will start winning games. Not a doubt in my mind. Yes we still have problems. No, we're not likely to be going 10-6. Some of the problems will have to wait until the off-season to fix and we all know that. Bad kicking isn't one of them and if we want to see this team spiral into a group of sincerely disgruntled and hopeless guys let Pillsbury blow a couple more wins and you'll have it.

Bullock should have been gone on Monday. The fact that he wasn't probably has guys in the locker room scratching their heads. Send Cierre Wood packing the night before you play the Chiefs in Arrowhead but keep Randy Bullock no matter how bad he plays? WTF?

Vinnie
11-06-2013, 12:39 PM
Good God, if the Ravens can change their freaking offensive coordinator mid season we can replace our kicker! I just don't get our management sometimes.:mariopalm:

TheIronDuke
11-06-2013, 12:43 PM
Good God, if the Ravens can change their freaking offensive coordinator mid season we can replace our kicker! I just don't get our management sometimes.:mariopalm:

And God forbid we maybe just fire the ST coordinator, do SOMETHING to show the fans that you don't like what you're seeing on the field. I really hate this organization sometimes and the idiotic non-decisions they constantly make. These are the times I am glad I don't give them a dime because the product they have on the field is absolute crap and no one is held accountable for making it better.

houstonspartan
11-06-2013, 01:01 PM
Good God, if the Ravens can change their freaking offensive coordinator mid season we can replace our kicker! I just don't get our management sometimes.:mariopalm:

The Texans are a team that, quite simply, just doesn't "get it." They have no idea what it takes to succeed and - deep down - I think they fear success. (Don't laugh; fear of success is a real condition a lot of people have).

The Texans are so ingrained with "their culture" that they are going to preserve it, more so than actually winning a championship. If they win a championship while sticking to their culture, great! It's a bonus, in their eyes. But, make no mistake: winning a championship is not this teams primary goal.

I'm not talking about the players; they want to win a championship. I'm talking about the coaches and upper management.

houstonspartan
11-06-2013, 01:12 PM
There wasn't any chance that they would cut Gary's guy with so much unknown about Gary's health. This was strictly about sending a message to Bullock.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see one of these guys come back after Bullock blows it again on Sunday. I'm pulling for Rackers.

But that will backfire. The "message" it sends to Bullock is that he will likely never lose his job and that he is not accountable for kicking.

It also sends a terrible message to the rest of the team, IMO. As much as they publicly say they support Bullock, there's got to be a ton of resentment at the fact he missed THREE field goals in one game and the coaches appear not to care.

CloakNNNdagger
11-06-2013, 02:49 PM
JUST IN!................BULLOCK'S STILL OUR KICKER!!!!!!!!!!!:mariopalm:

Runner
11-06-2013, 02:59 PM
JUST IN!................BULLOCK'S STILL OUR KICKER!!!!!!!!!!!:mariopalm:

Bollocks!

mattieuk
11-06-2013, 03:01 PM
Bollocks!

Who the hell names their child Randy when their last name is Bullock?

Surely both Randy and Bollocks meant the same tihng 25 years ago.

Runner
11-06-2013, 03:05 PM
Who the hell names their child Randy when their last name is Bullock?

Surely both Randy and Bollocks meant the same tihng 25 years ago.

It sounds classy when said by a Brit.

CloakNNNdagger
11-06-2013, 03:06 PM
Who the hell names their child Randy when their last name is Bullock?

Surely both Randy and Bollocks meant the same tihng 25 years ago.

I would think so since it is used in LEVITICUS.:kitten:

Dutchrudder
11-06-2013, 03:08 PM
So does this mean we are tanking?

:kitten:

AMartin56
11-06-2013, 03:16 PM
Basically that means that Smith and Company want to ruin another player's life by letting Bullock keep failing out there until fans starting burning his jersey (of course they'd have to buy one first) or start showing up at his house with pitchforks.

I wish I could admire their stubbornness...

Double Barrel
11-06-2013, 03:18 PM
Vinny has made an excellent point on this several times. You aren't going to get the players to tank. Their body of work and resume is film. They are staring at losing millions of dollars or being out of the league for putting in a half assed performance.

yep. And I would think the same goes for GMs and coaches, as well.

The thing about tanking on purpose is simply a matter of integrity of the game itself. If a team and/or FO or GM, etc., could conspire to purposefully throw games for a draft pick, then what is to stop them from doing the same for money, as in fixing games for organized crime kind of stuff?

It's a slippery slope and one that I refuse to believe. With the 2011 Colts, it is simple application of Occam's razor principle to the situation. They were unable to overcome the loss of Manning.

Bulls on Parade
11-06-2013, 06:05 PM
JUST IN!................BULLOCK'S STILL OUR KICKER!!!!!!!!!!!:mariopalm:
Can somebody explain to me why that is? So when he misses two or three more field goals on Sunday against the Cardinals we're going to be okay with that?

Texecutioner
11-06-2013, 08:32 PM
Vinny has made an excellent point on this several times. You aren't going to get the players to tank. Their body of work and resume is film. They are staring at losing millions of dollars or being out of the league for putting in a half assed performance.

You are making a solid point that I can agree with, but that isn't completely correct. We've seen teams tank practically every season. It's not really that they're just tanking in the sense that they want a better draft pick, but the players end up giving up on trying to make the playoffs and going all out in every game. They lose their motivation to play balls to the wall. Hell, we just witnessed it against the Rams a few weeks ago. The Texans team totally gave up on that game and hundreds of fans all over this city noticed it. The players had no faith or confidence in TJ Yates and were just going through the motions. The very next week when Keenum came in you saw a completely different team. The players felt revived again and actually felt that spark to go all out. I'm not saying every single player did this, but I think you get my point.

steelbtexan
11-06-2013, 09:35 PM
Can somebody explain to me why that is? So when he misses two or three more field goals on Sunday against the Cardinals we're going to be okay with that?

We have to be OK with it, because as 2012 Champs stated in another thread BoB doesn't owe the fans anything.

In short this is BoB's team and he will do with what he wants. Hence Bullock is still on the team. We as fans need to accept the fact that it's not our team.

Apparently Maroon blood runs deeper than what's best for the team. Afterall the Aggies keep filling the stands and that's what's most important to BoB.

The good thing is the lack of accountability shown by this regime will eventually end because they will lose the players/team/fans.

infantrycak
11-06-2013, 09:44 PM
Bob, along with every other owner in the league, ain't involved in hiring kickers.

ArlingtonTexan
11-06-2013, 10:01 PM
Bob, along with every other owner in the league, ain't involved in hiring kickers.

Jerry jones says hello...

ArlingtonTexan
11-06-2013, 10:10 PM
We have to be OK with it, because as 2012 Champs stated in another thread BoB doesn't owe the fans anything.

In short this is BoB's team and he will do with what he wants. Hence Bullock is still on the team. We as fans need to accept the fact that it's not our team.

Apparently Maroon blood runs deeper than what's best for the team. Afterall the Aggies keep filling the stands and that's what's most important to BoB.

The good thing is the lack of accountability shown by this regime will eventually end because they will lose the players/team/fans.

he owes putting a representative product on the field in relative safe environment, outside of that no owner owes any fan a darn thing. Since people are still buying tickets and showing up to the games, he is holding up his end of the bargain.

championship are not owed, no way to guarantee them. Making this move or that move is not owed because we fans are frankly fickle and stupid as a collective group about football.

infantrycak
11-06-2013, 10:31 PM
Jerry jones says hello...

Did he jack with a kicker?

If the worst owner does it, is it something to emulate?

ArlingtonTexan
11-06-2013, 10:44 PM
Did he jack with a kicker?

If the worst owner does it, is it something to emulate?

That was just a drive by comment...no real analysis meant.


That said, jones in his past has said something to the effect that he has made multiple million profit on some deal that barely made a paragraph in a business specific publication, but traded a back-up player and that made the front page of the sports section. he likes doing things that make a "splash" or looks like he doing more than he really is. At times I think at least 1/3 of the board want things that look effective versus that are effective.